Sniper Country Duty Roster
May 19, 1999 to May 26, 1999
A question put to all... I am a reserve deputy in a county here
in Oregon and have to purchase all my own equipment. I am looking for a
fragmentation vest for sale. Preferrably the British body armour. Any leads
would be helpful. Thank you all....
Michael R. <psu00712@odin.cc.pdx.edu>
Portland, Oregon, USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 01:04:57 (ZULU)
Greetings:
This is my first entry, of what i hope will be many. in typical
military fashion I discovered this site shortly before I am due to change
duty stations. the information I have seen so far, I have enjoyed, and
will try to reestablish contact at my next station.
SSgt kent Partlow (U.S.A.F.) <kent.partlow@kunsan.af.mil>
USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 01:34:53 (ZULU)
Oh peteR: Yes kneeling is my favorite position when I'm praying
that you enter my sight picture which makes my mil reading even that much
easier. Ka-RRRAAAK, another limp weeny is a little limper now. I'm gunnin'
for you now!! No hiding behind momma coat tails now!!
al o.
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Praying Righteously In the Ever Greening State of , Ohio, USA - Wednesday,
May 19, 1999 at 02:07:30 (ZULU)
To Bruce E. Re Alternatives to Ghille suits.
Bruce, I know diddley squat about Ghille suites. I am just a history
buff. The Germans in WW2 had a cute trick that they did with umbrella's.
Take a medium size umbrella and remove the cover and half of the ribs to
make a semi-circle. An umbrella with a hook for a carry handle works best.
Remove half of the ribs so that the umbrella handle will lay flat on the
ground. Replace the rain cover with netting. To deploy just stick local
weeds and grass into the netting and there you are, your very own portable
bush to hide behind. Rumor has it that this little trick will also defeat
infra-red heat detectors but I don't see how.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 02:21:10 (ZULU)
I saw all the old past comments about military marksmanship training
and had to say something. I'm Air Force Security Forces, we fire for record
at least twice a year on our primaries, M9 and M16A2. Our course of fire
isn't very difficult, for the 16's we use reduced silhouettes at 25 yds.
At air base ground defense school we got to shoot the Army course of fire,
with the pop-up targets and what not, that was out to 300 meters if I can
remember correctly.
In general we do not fire enough to be totally confident with our
weapons. While deployed to Hungary last year we had an "augmentee," I think
he was a sattelite dish repair guy, he carried his M16 around like it was
going to bite him at any moment. Since he is not listed in a career field
that requires arming up, his qualifications are good for two years. But
salvation is en route, the powers that be want to implement a training
program at our basic training that has every young airman carrying an M16
throughout.
Darren <darren.malott@mildenhall.af.mil>
USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 02:21:46 (ZULU)
Greetings Gents,
I would appreciate a qualified sniper contacting me regarding operational
use of a ghillie suit.
thanks
darryl <darryl.todd@eddept.wa.edu.au>
- Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 03:15:31 (ZULU)
Rangefinders: I have a Bushnell 800 and a buddy has a Tasco 800.
In a head to head ranging exercise the Bushnell seemed far better than
the Tasco, (my opinion). On a partly cloudy Wyoming day I was able to range
antelope at 420 yards with the Bushnell. The Tasco didn't pick it up till
nearly 300 yards. Don't plan on ranging any real targets at more than half
of the published range. Sometimes the rangefinders will surprise you and
range way out there, but don't plan on it. I have ranged my barn at 990
meters, but who wants to shoot the barn. At the rifle range, I can range
steel gongs out to 600 yards on a partly cloudy day and about 500 yards
in bright sunshine.
Mike O'Brien <bopm@aol.com>
Evansville, WY, USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 03:40:41 (ZULU)
You see you guys are misusing those Range finders. The Bushnell
400 yard model will range targets out to a mile or more. That square aiming
box in the center of the lens covers 2 mils. At 1000 yards.
Never mind that LAZER thing unless your bow hunting. IT's good to
100 yards or so on a large animal. Buy you books and buy you books!
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 04:10:54 (ZULU)
B. Rogers: Ya mean I wasted my money buying that new Mildot scope
and Mildot Master when I could have used the reticle in laser rangefinder?
Why didn't ya speak up sooner?
Mike O'Brien <bopm@aol.com>
Evansville, WY, USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 04:20:51 (ZULU)
On the subject of laser rangefinders...I bought a Bushnell 800 and
it will range a Stop sign 897 yds away day in and out. There are other
terrain features it will reliably range out to 700 yds, day in and out
but the key is finding a reflective/suitable surface to shoot. A deer or
man in camo isn`t reflective enough. I use mine against a large white board
as a way to accuratly set up 400-800 yd shooting situations. Works for
me...But I still want a mildot reticle!Str8hot
Str8shot <mshockley@hotmail.com>
Mi, USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 05:14:05 (ZULU)
Does anyone dryfire practice with a Remington 700 action?
Have you had any broken firing pins through this exercise?
Thanks
PS Bill
Thanks for the ghillie feedback, I'm tempted to send it to gooch
for 'trials'.
darryl <darryl.todd@eddept.wa.edu.au>
- Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 05:15:38 (ZULU)
For you guys interested in laser rangefinders, read the review I
recently completed on the Bushnell Yardage Pro 400.
Some of the assertions made here by the regular Roster members are
correct.Just remember,you get exactly what you pay for in optics.These
devices cannot perform miracles when one is needed.
I'm convinced that too many shooters are taking the easy way out
by relying too heavily on all of the high tech Star Wars gadgets in the
marketplace.
The mil-dot system,although not perfect; doesn't require batteries,won't
refuse to work properly for you just because it's raining or snowing,and
so on and so on.
Learn how to use the mil system and use the laser as a back up to
confirm your mil range estimate.These two items can be used together if
necessary to give you the most accurate range estimation possible.
Take Care...
Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 05:39:49 (ZULU)
A question on this shooting position topic.
Sorry if I mentioned that if getting in shape means something like
busting chops to everyone it means more to me than probably others I guess.
My question: I tried this siting tripod position, it seams to work
well with rifle rested on a commercial tripod or arrows tied together with
suspension line , but does anyone know if there is a rail or sling swivel
adapter to lock the rifle to the commercial bipod mount rather than have
to steady everything by oneself. It sems like a gadget like this might
work out well for some tactical situations. They make 35mm and vcr camera
adapters to do simialar things that screw to the bottom of cameras and
vcr's, can't see why it won't work for a rifle forearm adapter or sling
swivel adapter.
This really has nothing to do with position, but based on the posted
military photos, a 20 year old really fits well into a sitting position
with a 5.5 lb M16 weapon, but I dont see any photos of this 20 yr old sitting
with a 13lb SWS rifle and trying to steady it. Maybe 7 lb more in barrel
heavy makes no difference to someone at 20 yr olds, but to me at over 40
it means a helluava a lot more to try to steady ones self for a the best
possible shot. Just my observation.
Tony Y <ayackowski@rcn.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 05:44:23 (ZULU)
Salutations ladies,
Any comments on why a one piece mount on a M700 7.62 is a superior
choice to a two piece system? Is stressing the scope tube the only problem
with two piece mounts?
USMC SWS replacement.
Rumour mill from USMC is as follows:
M700 action
welded box mag
pillar bedded
McMillan stock (A3?)with adjustable cheekpiece
adjustable length of pull by stock spacers
hooked butt for non-shooting hand
barrells threaded for suppressor and flash hider/with thread protector
scope Leupold 4-14 with Picatinny mount.
Excellent stuff! Now I might be able to get a cheaper Mkiv
darryl <darryl.todd@eddept.wa.edu.au>
- Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 06:00:31 (ZULU)
Jim D: Regarding Sheppard scopes. I inherited one with a PSS and
shot it for a while. I agree with the comments about the one shot zero,
it works. I thought that the reticle was too cluttered, and the stadia
lines were way too thick for my uses. They obscure one inch pasters at
100 yards! I now have a Leupold M3LR, which has much better optical clarity,
and do not miss the Sheppard on bit. It really does not cost that much
more, and IMHO is worth the wait.
be safe
scott woodbury
scott woodbury <longline@worldfront.com>
wa, USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 06:01:11 (ZULU)
On rangefinders, stay away from the 400 yard Bushnell. Tried to
range a full grown heffer at about 350 yards and it wouldn't. Sold it and
bought the 800. Would range a similar heffer at 593 yards. Got a solid
read on a plywood storage building at 888 yards. You have got to keep fresh
batteries in the unit. I keep two spares in the case.
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 12:08:23 (ZULU)
Daryl; yeah send that one to Gooch so he can see what a real Ghillie
suit looks like employed on a REAL stealth vehicle system.
Bill Wylde; I'm becoming a menace with that thing you sent me.
Mike; Yeah sorry to have to break the news about that! I realize
it's real politically incorrect to be so blunt. But can someone tell me
what those buttons are for and where to the batteries go? We've been working
on that for about a year now. Presumably the batteries are for night use
but I never have saw anything through it in the dark. I can't even see
that thing the book calls a beam.
Dry Fire a Remington? Ohmygosh! Never broke a firing pin but i've
only been doing it since... lets see when did they start making that thing!
ON the Scope mount thing about one or two piece. If it is lapped
or bedded I don't think it matters much. If it's the old Leupold hunting
mount that moves or the New Burris Z-rings with the Nylon inserts I don't
think it matters at all. But there is room for disagreement..
Sheperd Scopes; Don't disagree with anyones report but there is
one thing I forgot to mention about them. The advantage over the MIl dot
system for those who have poor close vision is that all the ranging is
done inside the tube as opposed to having to consult a calculator, mil
dot master, and then raise the scope a good number of clicks. It can be
done in poorer light thus making up for some of the other pitfalls of the
MIl system. Greatly speeds the operation. This is not to say that the mil
dot system can't be used this way by someone able to do mil dot math in
his head and use the mil dots for aiming points and elevation However I
would find the Sheperd aiming rings better for that purpose than the tear
shaped dots. I did find the Sheperd far superior in that regard. I'm off
to see the Wizard! From the land OZ...Your humble servant!
B,Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 12:16:29 (ZULU)
Rangefinders, did someone say Rangefinders!
You bet. We use them to long range hunt. Started out with a Barr&Stroud
250 it work great but , some disadvantages to them, two people ranging
the same thing two ,different readings, thats not so bad, but boy they
are heavy, weight as much as your rifle.So we got with the program, and
got us a XLR by NAIT yea just what we needed. small and light weight. We
have had it for a while ,I used it to make a kill at 1150 Yds.,ranged the
rock 1150 , got on the gun, Bang! ,one dead white tail ,one shot.But like
all things this to has its limitations. It dont like ,rain,snow or fog
.But I did get it to range out to 2500 Yds. on a dark and cloudy day.
JUST MY TWO CENTS WORTH..........
BigGunn <meghgan@penn.com>
Mtn. country, Pa., USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 13:05:17 (ZULU)
As a final thought on the whole training thing (yeah, like I ever
have a FINAL though on anything), did anyone happen to catch an Investigative
Reports on A&E the other night about Marine Boot Camp? Focus was on
that new thing that do at the end called the Crucible, but it also took
a look at the main body of training a bit. ANYWAY, the point it was making
was the in the Corps now, Women Marines receive exactly the same training
as the male Marines (except for a few minor physical requirements). In
other words (at least acc. to this show) even WMs have to learn to shoot
their M-16s like the men and go through the same basic combat training
that every male goes through. At the very least, what I saw on the show
was more than some have indicated that they received. (Note: this was NOT
true when I was in, but apparently is now. My recollection is the WMs had
a slightly shorter boot camp, and while they qualed with the rifle, they
didn't get the extensive combat training. I may be wrong there, but that's
what I recall.)
I light of the many replies I received, both personal and public,
when I opened this subject a week or so ago, I'd say that it's heartening
to see that at least one service thinks so highly of basic combat skills
that even the women are required to learn them. Though I received no replies
from women, I think I can assume that if a male in a non-Marine service
received no real marksmanship training, that there is little chance a female
would. Maybe in a future war then, the Women Marines can protect the AF
bases, while the male Marines go to the front? (Sorry AF, I couldn't resist
that!)
On another note, did any of you catch the little article in the last
Precision shooting about using the 1907 sling in a new arrangement as a
no-pulse cuff sling? Anyone tried it at the range yet. I went so far as
to set it up, but I haven't decided whether it may be better or not. (I
kind of prefer the old standard setup)
Semper Fi,
André
André <akpeters@isd.net>
Mpls, MN, USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 13:05:32 (ZULU)
Fella's, If I remember right the SHeppard (and a few others) use
ilttle circles that correspond to a given taret dimension on the target
to estimate range. WHile not perfect, the mildots allow you to use any
target or object size while also providing alternate aiming points for
elevation/windage holds as well as lead points for moving targets.
I like the round dots over the football ones big time.
Sitting position is no problem with SWS. Use a loop sling or one
of the undude slings and its a breeze. NRA high power shooters do it al
of the time. Its a mandatory skill at SOTIC.
See ya'll at the Hathcock match.
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 13:08:31 (ZULU)
I have stayed out of this sitting position thing until now. If you
think because you are over 40 you will not be able to shoot from this position,
you wont. Not because you can't but because you have mind F'd yourself.
I have more Gortex, pins, staples and screws in me than anyone I know and
I shoot 98-100% from the seated in HighPower. I teach alot of 20 year old
seated and many are too busy using muscle to hit crap from any poaition.
It is bone support, sling use, breathing, trigger control and concentration.
To practice for seated sit Indian Style watching TV (for the out of shape
group) Then practice at the range. When I hit a target it is because I
know I am going to hit it. If you wonder if you can you will probably miss.
Buy a good sling and practice. If you like my sling fine, but a 1903
model will work great its just slower and not as stable as the cuff type.
The Undude, Mike
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif, USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 14:37:13 (ZULU)
No time to read the roster yet this week.
But I wanted to drop in and let you all know that Tasco's warranty
service is what they claim. I sent in a set of 7x50 Waterproofs (the predecessor
to the OS-36 Offsore Waterproof) with a few items needing repair. Per their
lifetime claim, they took the binoculars in, looked them over, and then
REPLACED them with a NEW set of 7x50 OS-36 Offsore Waterproof's! It was
easier to simply replace my old set with a brand new one. I have often
busted on the quality of Tasco, but in this case I can only off major kudo's
for their stance on keeping the customer, ME, happy.
Thought I'd share this with you since I wrote about the newer glass
recently.
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 18:48:45 (ZULU)
On the WM issue. I ran those ranges at PI where the WM's trained.
My last details there were the WM series's. Besides having them fall in
love with the male coaches and crying when they got wet and cold, I would
say that they learned to shoot just as well as the males. They were a pain
in the ass because you had to be careful how you touched them when adjusting
positions and if you got too rough on them they would lock up on you faster
than a male private.
Due to their shorter stature and shorter arms (as a whole) we had
to modify positions and the little birth control ampules in their arms
often hurt them when they used a loop sling.
I must say though that it was a much more mellow range when the females
came on board. All those little butts in the prone....... oops!! Did I
say that?
Better get out of here before I get a call from Pat "the rat" Schroeder!!
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 19:33:34 (ZULU)
Just got an email from Gunsite announcing a new 10 round box magazine
version of the UARS. "The magazine is a unique design made of stainless
steel. It is single stack with long feed lips. This allows controlled feed
into the barrel chamber." (It also makes the mag stick out pretty far!)
This is for short-action Remingtons, and I'm guessing it's set up for .308
but haven't looked into it further. There's a pic at http://uars.com/home.htm
if anyone is interested.
Just picked up a case of Black Hills .308 175gr match (moly) from
my local shop - I had them order it for me and it took something like 2
months to get the darn stuff in. Also, the latest SAR says that BH now
has a contract to make 73gr(?) Berger 5.56mm (magazine-loadable) match
ammo for the USMC shooting team, as well as 80gr Sierra 5.56mm (single-feed)
match ammo for the Army team.
Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
Mostly lurking these days in San Jose, CA, USA - Wednesday, May 19,
1999 at 20:50:12 (ZULU)
Hey all!!
It's ultra mag mania out there!! Seems like every order I have been
getting in lately is either a 300UM, 338UM, 375UM(ones for Jon Sundra),
combinations of 300UM with 338UM-375UM take down's. What's the deal here???
What's the dope on these blasters?? Hell, I haven't heard a peep out of
a one of ya on these calibers, just wondering what the hubbub is all about.
.264UM???? hoo hoo. Zowie!!
later
JR <mrpink@rapidnet.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 23:03:12 (ZULU)
Guys!
Is there anyone who's staying at the Robert W Craig Memorial caminggrounds
during june training at SMTC. I'm looking for a daily ride to the center.
See you in June!
Stefan
Stefan <stefan@tref.nl>
Someplace, Somewhere, The Netherlands - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at
23:15:27 (ZULU)
Mike M.
Got the slings today, thanks. One can recognized their obvious quality
at first glance. When your enterprise get to the level where you can order
the material for the double sided cameo, please let me know.
Thanks again,
Steve
Stephen Mont. <stepmont@dfn.com>
NM, USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 00:18:28 (ZULU)
Rangefinders: I ranged a cow at a bit beyond 500 yards out in the
Nevada desert with my Bushnell 800. From the same sighting point, a friend's
Tasco was unable to pick it up. For what it's worth.
I've got my plane ticket and car reservations for September at Storm
Mountain. Before I make hotel reservations, does anybody have recommendations?
(Email, please.) The Mountaneer sounds best unless I hear otherwise.
Grasshopper <wd6cmu@earthlink.net>
Richmond, CA, USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 02:06:41 (ZULU)
On rangefinders, I have a Bushnell 800, and I really believe the
only way you will be disappointed...is if you expect it to do more than
it should. I have used it 'yote hunting, not to range the 'yote, but to
range landmarks in strange areas while setting up. 450 to that point, 600
to the other, etc. I have found that in unfamiliar territory...it is worth
the misses it saves on longer shots. Mils would probably do the same thing...assuming
you know how big the boulder is, wherever it is. The one I have seems to
be accurate enough, although rain and falling snow messes with it a good
bit.
Bruce
Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 03:20:47 (ZULU)
Gooch have you ever tried one of those Sheperds? I was pretty skeptical
and I'm still not sure about some things but the thing that impressed me
most was the circles (I thought would not be good to shoot through) seemed
to work well at 1000 yards. Something I did not expect. AT twilight when
you can't see the marks and have to count clicks they really shine. I'm
redundant but I think you will be amazed at the speed of ranging if not
aquisition of target. The AO sure has to be set though or it dances quite
a jig if set to the wrong range. Lense is not quite true. I know that is
not what you have trained on but if you have access to one you'd be entertained
by it for a test I think. We did a 600 yard coyote the other day. The guy
with the Sheperd fired before I got the MIldot math done. He was 10 seconds
ahead of my shot at the best.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 03:53:50 (ZULU)
Gents,
For those of you who need Camouflage slings and not painted, dyed
or ghillied slings, send your triggers to me for a custom paint job.
darryl <darryl.todd@eddept.wa.edu.au>
its hard to speak with my tongue in my cheek, - Thursday, May 20, 1999
at 03:57:56 (ZULU)
Rangefinders---
I forgot to add last night that I usually only get about 500-600
yds out of my Simmons 800. Highly reflective (read flat, perpendicular,
preferably metal) targets work a little farther out. Sounds like the concensus
of all the other entries since my first one yesterday. Ranging animals
is really tough because the're not really reflective; the same goes for
snipers in ghillie suits.Optical rangefinders (Barr & Stroud) are great
but heavy and bulky. Like someone said earlier, save your money and buy
the Leica Geovid if possible, if you want one to reach the max effective
range of your .308.
Jamison <Longshot1000@yahoo.com>
Memphis, TN, USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 04:10:41 (ZULU)
Hi Guys,
Anyone tell me where I can get a copy of the review you guy's did
on
the steiner 8x30 B/ST it is no longer in the review section.
Thanks
Chris
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
NZ - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 04:11:23 (ZULU)
Bolt,
Maybe there was something wrong with that heifer. Gotta go moly coat
some primers in my brass tumbler now. Just kidding.
Paul J. Headlee <pheadlee@networksplus.net>
Ogden, KS, USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 04:12:39 (ZULU)
Another laser rangefinder,
Have seen some info requests on laser range finders. I have another
one to add to the list. This item is advanced way past the Bushnell and
others, but is a bit more money. This is the Model XLR from a company called
North American Integrated Technologies www.hait.com
The cost is 1700.00 and they rante to 2200 meters with claimed accuracy
of 1 meter at 1500 and 2 meters to 2200 meters precision on the range.
20 hour burn life with AA batteries. However, they are still succeptible
to the same environmental effects as all other eyesafe lasers. It takes
the non-eyesafe lasers to burn through some of that environmental stuff.
By the way, for the operational guys, remember that for 100.00 or so, an
electronics guy can build a good laser detector that will provide an alarm
to a potential target long before you will even get the data on your gun.
Their phone number is (916) 630-8993. Take care all.
Trigger50 <Dmicha4640@aol.com>
USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 13:44:23 (ZULU)
Well folks,
Looks like another PO'ed at the world kid whacked out and started
taking potshots at people at his high school. This one was in Conyers GA
some time this morning. Last I heard was no fatalities, thank God, but
about a half dozen injured. This is sure to start another wave of gun control
boojois, especially so soon after Colorado. When are these kids going to
get some help?? No, no, you've got that all wrong. It's not the poor kid's
fault, it's those nasty guns he stole from someone who should have had
them locked up. Yeah, right.
Anyway, get ready for it to start rolling down hill.
Hold tight, all.
George
George L. Derry <george@ebmud.com>
Oakland, CA, USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 15:45:50 (ZULU)
Bill R,
I have to pretty much agree with you on your remarks about the Shepard
scope. I had one on my 300WM and it worked as advertised but I found the
circles were to close in size after 700 to accurately range a target. I
also believe my circles were 18" not nine as someone stated. I was only
shooting at IPSC targets so it worked great and there is nothing faster
in my view than the Shepard. I also felt the cross hairs were far to thick
and I didn't like the short eye relief on my scope. If I was shooting nothing
but and 18" wide target I would still probably have one. I think as far
as a sniper scope they could hold some promice.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 16:07:43 (ZULU)
You know, this laser rangefinder / Shephard's scope discussion got
me thinking... (Oh No!!!) ;-)
All sorts of gizmos are out nowdays, like auto-focus cameras and
image stabilizing binoculars, how about a self-setting scope?
I mean, build a rangefinder into a riflescope, and have servos set
up so that it automatically dials the range onto the scope as it acquires
the distance.
Of course, there would be lots of limitations: accuracy of the range
calculation, possible interference from cover, extra weight, power source
dependancy, speed of adjustment, etc....
I can't say that I think it would be ideal for a sniper, but it would
be interesting to see if it is feasibly possible.
Thoughts?
Leslie <lbright@utk.edu>
Home of the Vols, TN, USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 16:56:59 (ZULU)
Pat I think maybe they have a .22 scope that is a 9" ring model
but I'm not sure. I Errored in mailing someone this morning that it was
15" but it is 18". 1/2 mil at 1000 I believe.
Leslie'; I guess anything is possible nowadays as far as miniature
electronics goes. However I do tend to Eliminate electronics as being something
I want to depend on it the field. Such as carrying a GPS with no Compass
or using a red dot or lazer without back up iron sights. I also remember
the days when Optics was looked upon with the same distain. One must be
careful not to embrase technology altogether I think but at the same time
new ideas and methods are happening all the time. The Sheperd Scope has
been around for some time but for some reason it doesn't replace the old
Mil dot system. There is something for purists in the old MIl Dot method
that just won't die. Out here in the Outback of Kansas most view the MIl
Dot systems as some kind of new fangled gadget that should be eyed with
suspicion. If Leupold would build the same thing into their scopes everyone
would go nuts to get one. They would likely have good lens systems and
be unquestioned as ruggedness goes.
The fact that Leupold would do it would be enough to get the method
accepted because it does work. The Short Eye relief I didn't notice with
the .308 model for obvious reasons. But the speed is unquestionable in
my book.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 17:52:05 (ZULU)
Bill,
Your advise about having back-up systems is sound. In addition to
having a compass to back up my GPS, I also carry some Viagra and Iron Vitamin
supplements to back up my compass. Viagra in 1/4 dosage also works good
to keep us old guys from peeing on our shoes.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 19:58:59 (ZULU)
Data Book Update:
This morning we shipped the first of the data book orders by Priority
Mail (We aren't getting rich off of our S&H fee.) Delays with our credit
card company caused a delay. We should have all the initial orders in the
mail by Saturday.
We still have a couple of the three-ring version left, along with
a number of the regular spiral binder version. Get them now while we still
have them. The next shipment is dedicated to some institutional (school)
customers.
Stay Safe!
Operations Partner
T.R.G.T. - L.L.P.
Operations Partner <email@trgt.com>
Littleton, CO, USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 20:25:41 (ZULU)
Hi there everyone.
Just for a change, I need some advice. So far I have paid for the
barrell, and bought a remington action. I also have made steps to purchase
the Leupold scope I want and am well on my way to getting some reloading
gear I'll need along with other bits and pieces. What I need now of course,
is the STOCK.
The rifle will be chambered for 30-338 with a Remington action.
I was thinking of maybe going for Plaster's Ultimate Sniper Stock, but
have heard some bad things about it. Your comments would be welcome. Another
option I thought about was the HS Precision stocks. I have been told that
adjustable cheek-pieces and so on are unnecessary, but this mostly by bench-rest
guys. Also apparently a straight stock (one with the top and bottom horizontal
sections of the stock are as parallel as possible) gives less perceived
recoil.
Any and all suggestions will be welcome, only PLEASE could you e-mail
me? I am working like a dog these days (bills to pay on that rifle...)
and don't have a lot of time to sift through the duty roster. Thanks again,
you guys have always given good advice one and all, which is why I keep
picking your collective brains. Rest assured that once I have that rifle
I'll be willing to tell you all about it.
Regards,
Joe.
Joe <russellp@iafrica.com>
Cape Town, SA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 21:36:47 (ZULU)
To all:
Some of you are familiar with the work I did with JavaScript and
the Greenhill formula where you can figure out the twist rate for a given
bullet length and diameter. I now have a JavaScript form that will figure
out the correct bullet length from the twist rate and diameter.
This is not absolutly correct as it is made on the greenhill formula
therefore has all the flaws of the original formula. But for a simple method
it should be close. The equation I used is Maximum Bullet Length = 150
*( D*D) / T. Where D=Diameter of bullet and T=Twist rate of barrel. It
is out there on my main page for all to use if they want.
Bill M
Bill M <billmohr@borg.com>
Central, Ny, USA - Thursday, May 20, 1999 at 23:20:31 (ZULU)
Hey folks!!
Bill M:
Good idea with the Greenhill Formula/Java setup, works good with
lead round nose bullets. But people, don't bet yer next gun on the Greenhill,
lemme tell ya. It's very vague and does not conform to the drag functions
necessary to today's spitzers and VLD's(especially VLD's). Especially with
today's velocities. Fun to toy with though.
JR <mrpink@rapidnet.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 00:12:58 (ZULU)
Hey all,
Thanks for the replies on the body armor, i.e. frag vests. I didn't
make myself too clear, sorry... I DO have an A.B.A. level IIIA vest worn
underneath the uniform (always...) and am looking for body armor over the
top for high risk warrants serving, etc. (Mr. Smith? This is depitty Mikey
knocking! I have some papers for you to sign! And a lovely matching pair
of bracelets!!!) Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out
to get me. Besides, I am a true believer in overkill... Thanks again and
anymore leads would be great.
Michael...
Michael R. <psu00712@odin.cc.pdx.edu>
Portland, Oregon, USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 00:27:27 (ZULU)
On the self adjusting scope. Its a great idea, bad concept.
Think of it this way. THere is no way to have a BDC that is perfect
for every rifle/load/temp/barometric presure/angle of fire....shall I go
on? DOD has experimented with a scope such as this for years (I saw one
at Beltsville, MD around 1985 made by McDonnel Douglas adn it was a neat
toy but no cigar. Saw one by IMI a coupole of years ago that used an LED
display that lased the target then lit a dot that you put on the target.
No fine tune was available.
All a sniper needs is an integral laser range finder (with mil dot
reticle for back up and when the enemy has laser detectors etc), leave
it to the sniper to adjust the elevation and windage so he can compensate
for the above mentioned variables.
My favorite laser is by Svarovski RF2 or someshit. USed it at the
Natiohal Guard course and had good luck 95% of the time. Cost is around
$2,000 I think. Better than the Leica by the way but less features. Its
a monocular, no compass etc. But damn good range finder!
GOoch out
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 01:22:38 (ZULU)
Hey all,
I am trying to find a hard case for transportation to the range,
and a soft case for those other needs. They need to fit a Remington 700
P. The problem is that I am just a poor college student and it needs to
be done on a budget, and all the dealers here seem to want me to spend
a small fortune. Does anyone have any suggestions or feed back?
Ed
Edward <hawaiihawk@aol.com>
Flagstaff, AZ, USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 05:59:35 (ZULU)
How do you remove the operating rod on an M1A? It does not have
the cut out on the rail for the connector like an M-14, therefor Iam lost.
Can anyone out there help? Thank you in advance for any info you can email
me with.
J. Elledge <melchapman@sprintmail.com>
USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 07:14:25 (ZULU)
Riflesmithing Questions:
Got a hair up my arse to put together a bolt gun. My 9 to 5 is as
a precision welder/fabricator so I have been trained as a pretty good machinist,
including runing a CNC, but I have little practical experience in machining
practices related to firearms. I am a RKI, good with my hands, can build/modify
anything, and in the past have built AR's and 1911's. I have access to
a Bridgport and a Lathe with 6 foot bed.
Particulars: Rem SA 700, McMillian A2 stock inleted for #7 barrel,
Stainless match barrel (Shilen, Douglas, ??? Most likely will be ordered
from Brownells)
Questions: Reciever. Where can one find a Reciever? Hunt pawn shops
for a beater 700 and chuck the stock and barrel in the trash? If going
that route, are there any different models/styles of SA Rem 700 actions?
Any to avoid, any to look for?
Barrel: Suggestions? Should I start with a blank, or a pre threaded,
short chambered barrel?
Machining: I assume bolt lugs and action threads and the like need
to be trued because they came from the factory out of wack. If the recuever
threads are chased true, does the barrel threads thenneed to be cut oversize
to compensate? Where can I find out about machining processes used in riflesmithing
(such as what fixtures to make and use, how to hold a tapered barrel in
the lathe, etc.)
Learning materials: I would like to add to my library books on this
topic. Suggestions? I prefer "shop manual" type books. Lots of facts, drawings,
procedures, measurments, etc.
Thanks in advance, feel free to email direct mws@ecom.net
mike S <mws@ecom.net>
USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 07:34:54 (ZULU)
Michael,
I don't know where your going to work as a police officer but a
fragmentation vest is pretty much impractical in my opinion. Its not designed
to stop bullets and is very heavy and uncomfortable. I wore one for a while
in Viet Nam and we usually wound up setting on them, not wearing them.
If your concern is safety invest in a "GOOD" vest with the side pannels
and a groin protector for going through doors it will stop anything other
than a rifle round. Like I said just my opinion. Good Luck!!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 11:55:28 (ZULU)
Poor college student Ed,
Doskocil makes a very nice hard case, which is quite similar to
the much more expensive "pelican" brand. They call it the "All Weather"
case and it goes for $65 or so. Natchez (www.natchezss.com) stocks them.
Rosco
Rosco Benson <roscobenson@earthlink.net>
Beavercreek, OH, USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 12:07:43 (ZULU)
Under fire again. Anti-gun bills being passed, media sensationalizing
"assault weapon toting sociopathic teenagers", city sponsored lawsuits,
NRA losing political leverage. Rosie tells me guns are bad... must be true.
The media wouldn't manipulate the truth and they say guns are bad... must
be true. Lawyers tell me the potential is their for massacres, terrorists
and because one person gets shot, everyone gets sued and guns are bad...
must be true. Our elected officials wouldn't lie to us to further their
own political adgendas and Bill tells me guns are bad... must be true(Bill
wouldn't lie). A couple of weeks ago, a man to be left unamed called me
up and asked to meet for lunch, he said he wanted to talk about Monica
and wanted to discuss gun control. We met at a local pub and he told me
that he had been having fantasies about unloading a couple in Monica. I
wasn't sure if he meant rounds or something else. At this point he got
a wild look in his eyes, leapt up on the table, buried his face in his
meal and started oinking like a pig. I was forced to mace him, two busboys
and the maitre de before escaping.
The question is,"Its 12:01, January 1, 2000... do you know where
your Second Amendment is?" Its right there with the first one you say.
Well I'm sorry to hear that, because, we lost track of the first one shortly
after the second one disappeared without a trace.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
and I'm not sure about the former."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Brad <brad.scott@frco.com>
USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 13:15:31 (ZULU)
Mike S,
Will try to help you out. As far as recievers. Actions can be purchased
seperate. Some include Sako (very good, but you need to attach a recoil
lug to the front a.k.a. Winchester Model 70 style), H&S Precision Series
2000, very good, about $800.00. (it's a combination of the good features
of a Winchester and Remington. Dakota Arms (very expensive, but again,
very good. All these are available from Brownells, must must be shipped
to a FFL holder. Would recommend any of these above a Winchester or Remington.
If you want to stay with factory actions (remington or winchester) I would
recommend Winchester. These have a flat bottom with multiple 90 angles
that lock up well in the bedding compound (recommend Brownell's Stainless
Steel Bed or Devcon with powder steel in it). The flat bottom actions hold
their zero better IMHO than do the round actions. The safeties on the Winchester
are better as well as the trigger. Winchester triggers can be set down
to 2 lbs. without replacing them with an expensive trigger. Remingtons
can be worked down this low also, but need a good smith to do that. Avoid
the Savage action. It requires machining to set up well. Usually, chasing
the threads is NOT necessary, but truing the face of the reciever is definately
recommended. Also true the bolt face and the rear of the locking lugs.
It is interesting to note that all of these jobs usually done in
a lathe are done in a milling machine by Gale McMillan. He does all of
his action work in a mill instead of a lathe.
Barrels: First Brownell's has an excellent book on barrel cutting
on page 185 of their #51 catalog. "The Complete Illustrated Guide to Precision
Rifle Barrel Fitting". Another website that is very good is www.fcsa.org
That's the fifty caliber shooter's association website. Go down the left
column to an article on Barrel Fitting by Daniel Lilja. He's one of the
top benchrest barrel makers. Good article. When getting a barrel blank,
you can go fully threaded and short chambered for the smaller calibers
up to .308. Guns chambered for belted magnums should be chambered on site.
However, if you are not familiar with chambering and headspacing procedures,
send it to someone who is.
Stocks: I prefer the McMillan A-4 or the H&S Precision stocks
(avoid them in the heavier calibers such as .338 Lapua). Another stock
to consider is the David Tubb Carbon Fiber stock. It's a project though
as you must inlet it completely and install all of the hardward such as
buttstock, cheekpiece, rail etc. But it's a great ergonomic stock. Best
i've ever shot. Costs about 575.00. Hope this helps, feel free to email
me for more info.
Trigger50 <Dmicha4640@aol.com>
USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 14:17:59 (ZULU)
Laser Rangefinders,
I have the Bushnell 800 and I really like it!
It works on targets all the way out to 999 yards (the max reading
on the three digit display) and I have adapted mine to fit on a tripod.
What I have been doing with it recently is checking the distance to the
flag on the golf course. Resting it on the roof of the golf cart I can
range to a pin flag at over 350 yards. For those of you who don't play
the game that is a very small target and not very reflective, in fact when
the wind isn't blowing it is a damn small target.
What I find is best about using it is that after a while my range
estimating has significently improved. Sometimes when I'm on patrol or
just sitting in my cruiser observing, I'll take it out and practice guessing
ranges and checking to see if I am correct. Practice, Practice, Practice!!
I go with the suggestion that if you can't range your target, range
somthing near it, I have always found somthing that I can get a good return
from.
For those of you who do play golf, wouldn't you love to know just
how far the other side of that water trap is so that you don't under club
and make a fool of yourself in front of your friends?
Stay Safe!
Depity Dave <dprolls@access.mountain.net>
Magnificent, Cool, Green, Springtime, West Virginia, USA - Friday,
May 21, 1999 at 15:57:19 (ZULU)
Brad: I KNOW I KNOW!! OH OH!!
Ned Beaty?!
Dude, listen to Pablito, that zylene will get to ya after a while.
Trigger50: Will any of these receivers fit a Rem 700 stock?
BruceH
Bruce Hilsabeck <bruceh@ionet.net>
Lawton/Ft.Sill, Oklahoma, USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 18:04:27 (ZULU)
Bruce H,
I believe that the H&S 2000 action dimensions are the same. I
would call H&S though and confirm. It seems that they would keep the
externals the same so they wouldn't have to retool the stock's aluminum
block. The Sako WILL NOT fit. H&S makes a stock with a block for the
Winchester, but for the very reasons that the 90 degree angles lock well
in standard bedding, they DO NOT lock well into a v-block. Dakota Arms
has a new action also. This is the Model 97, which is almost the same as
the H&S Series 2000 visually. Combines the remington and winchester's
best features. List cost for the Dakota action is 1000.00 and 937.00 for
the H&S action out of Brownell's.
I assume that when you ask if they will fit a 700 stock, you mean
one with an aluminum block. If not and it is a stock to be bedded, yes
it will fit. Not the Winchester or Dakota 76 action though. The Dakota
97, H&S 2000 will fit a standard stock for a M700 Remington.
The major difference between the Dakota 97 and the H&S 2000 is
that the Dakota uses the controlled claw feeding system. Not sure I like
that because jams are a bit more difficult to clear. The Dakota uses a
non-spring loaded ejector, which lends more towards accuracy of the gun.
The H&S action uses a spring loaded plunger as per the M700 ejector.
Precision shooters do not like this method. My personal recommendation
is the Dakota 97 for the money, if money is no object, use the Dakota 76
for any caliber up to .338 Lapua. Very good stuff. In my humble opinion.
Take care.
Trigger50 <Dmicha@aol.com>
USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 18:27:59 (ZULU)
Jeff A,
I just mailed your info on the 260, sorry it took so long I was
gone this week had to take the wife for a check up, all looked good do
it was good news for us.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 18:55:32 (ZULU)
JR. You are absolutly correct when you said that Greenhill is vague,
man, try to run some ballistic or plastic tips thru it and it is really
off. The copper jacketing we use today will throw it off somewhat. But
more to my point was the JavaScript that I wrote, because it is a simple
formula it was relatively easy to write. The script that does the original
greenhill was among the first things I had done with JavaScript and since
it has to do with shooting I thought that out there somewhere maybe someone
could use it at least to check out against thier data for fun. I am the
type who fiddles with things like cases, bullets and calipers while reading
boards so it is perfect for me.
Bill M <billmohr@borg.com>
Central, Ny, USA - Friday, May 21, 1999 at 23:02:54 (ZULU)
Last night I had a daddy moment, one of the few since el divorco.
Daughter gradiated high schrool. She didn't even trip going up and down
the steps. First time i've gotten misty eyed in a long time.
I have a Knight Disc 50 cal. and a PSS stock for sale in the Emporium.
Somebody buy them. College payments start June 1!
By the way, have one ex-wife that I would like to give away if anyone
needs one. Damn, four more years.
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, May 22, 1999 at 01:39:02 (ZULU)
>> "We at the VPC want to thank Congressman Waxman and Congressman
Blagojevich for their swift and aggressive response," Diaz said. "They
and their staff were as shocked as we were when we learned of this craven
effort to sell such lethal guns. I think average Americans will share our
fears." >>
"I think average Americians will share our fears."
That just about says it all, doesn't it?
A policy, a method, and a psychological profile all in one tidy bundle.
Note that even though it is .50 caliber guns the politicians are
going after this time, the generic term "sniper rifles" is the only description
given of the weapon targeted for extinction.
A disgraceful piece of propaganda by a complete moron.
Rob <bigcat@technotribe.com>
Louisville, KY, USA - Saturday, May 22, 1999 at 02:05:43 (ZULU)
Dave; your a genius! They can't take our LAZER range finders away
cause we can't play golf! Who says gun guys are stupid, besides Rosie of
course.
Rob; Bullseye! Fear yes indeed. Nothing motivates a Yuppie Bureaucrat
like his own fear. Wimps take heart! Now if 80% of the population living
in fear can just get 20% to surrender their arms. Ho Chi Mien has won again!
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, May 22, 1999 at 04:01:15 (ZULU)
Hey guys,
Hands up if you own a ghillie suit?
I have just completed reading all the feedback from several sniper
style sites. I had been questioning sniping professionals from an international
background about the biulding and operational deployment of ghillie suits.
What I found was a very interesting consensus.
Every reply (certain 'local' individuals declined to comment) stated
that ghillies were generally only used as a teaching tool in sniper courses.
The purpose was to ascertain student abilities and aptitudes for camouflage,patient
slow movement in uncomfortable environments.
The consensus extended to the reasons why ghillies were not generally
used as an operational tool. These were cited as weight, mass required
in backpacks, thermal characteristics and the frequent snagging on vegetation
that caused the sniper time and space problems with movement.
Given the amount of 'enthusiast' interest in ghillie suits I thought
it might be interesting to know what the professionals do with them after
completing their courses. Multi-colored mops apparently.
darryl <darryl.todd@eddept.wa.edu.au>
USA - Saturday, May 22, 1999 at 04:20:48 (ZULU)
Not to beat a dead horse, but I still have thoughts on this sitting
position thing.
Do you plan to get to an FFP or an Ambush and get into a sitting
position? Can't figure that one out!! I guess situation dictates with bad
intel..
Great service rifle mandatory target position, but is this a taught
diliberate practical positon? Can't ever remember a hasty or diliberate
situation whether hunting or in combat when a sitting positon is used.
You either kneeled, stood, point shot or were running your ass off while
shooting. If you planned on a position, you were as low and concealed as
possible.
Question though: If you plan on this type of position, how long should
you expect to be in a position like this behind a scoped SWS, minutes,
hours etc.??
I realize every marksman should have the capabilities and training
to shoot in any position whether diliberate or hasty no matter how awkward,
but I haven't grasped the concept of sitting yet. Maybe it's used if you
get tired and need a rest, but I still don't see the signifigance other
than a practiced position. If cover negates prone than I would have to
think you were about to ingage a target before getting into a sitting position.
And I would tend to think it was kneeling.
As far as getting comfortable with this position I have to agree
with others for us old guys, sit indian style. But do crunches in this
position, it helps a lot.
Just my thoughts. Thanks.
Tony Y <ayackowski@rcn.com>
Iselin, NJ, USA - Saturday, May 22, 1999 at 05:15:16 (ZULU)
After reading the latest issue of Tactical Shooter(June '99) I came
up with several questions...1) What type rifling is on the current Rem
700 VSSF ie. Hammer forged, cut, button ?? 2) Is the VSSF stock made by
HS Precision or by Rem ?? 3) Do you really need a ghillie for the "C.H.M"
in Oct @ SM or can good fieldcraft suffice ? I already have a "Burlap Berm"
and have a "Mil Spec" netting cape/drape. I was taught(oh so long ago)
to use a 60/40 of natural vegetation vs burlap, camo stuff. Is this still
the preferred set-up ?? I darn sure don't look forward to humping that
"Burlap Berm" especially if it gets wet and in Oct in WVa it probably will
!! 4) Last but not least, Does ANYONE have the USGS topo maps for that
AO so I can get an idea of the area ?? Will Elk Garden suffice to order
topos or what ??
Thanks
OUT HERE !!
Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, May 22, 1999 at 09:32:34 (ZULU)
Once again, due to the actions of an underage kid accessing firearms
and commiting crimes against society, politicians and bureaucrats are rallying
to legislate, litigate, and eliminate our 2nd Amendment rights out of existence.
If firearms improperly used are being portrayed as evil and so much effort
is going into propaganda, litigation,..etc (as is the case with the tobacco
industry) Why doesn`t the media, politicians and bureaucrats do the same
when someone commits a criminal act in an automobile. (Kind of like ol
Teddy did at Chappaquidick) Imagine suing the Big 3 automakers because
their product was "defective" when not used responsibly. I never hear the
evening news banning certain models of auto`s and accessories as "evil"
although I bet there are far more vehicular deaths per year than firearms
deaths. As far a "assult gun toting adolescent sociopaths" hell ...just
hand them some more money, toys, cars, whatever their heart desires...except
some parental quality time and training so that they don`t have to work
or learn responsibility for the small acheivements. Then they will be sure
to develop a strong, healthy respect for human life. The bottom line is
parents are responsible for their kids. Maybe they should outlaw stupid
people from raising kids instead of firearms ownership.
Str8shot <mshockley@hotmail.com>
MI, USA - Saturday, May 22, 1999 at 14:46:22 (ZULU)
Data Book Update:
The first data books should be arriving today. The very first to
receive them were a sniper with a local agency and Matt F. We look forward
to hearing from you all on the books.
More are going out today, but we ran out of Mildot Masters and so
we're waiting for more from Bruce. (Yes, Bruce, we'll think ahead next
time!) We have only three of the spiral bound books left from this shipment,
but are getting more of the spiral and 3-ring in this coming week. We have
plenty Slope Dopers and copies of the Military and Police Sniper
by Mike Lau available.
Stay Safe!
T.R.G.T. - L.L.P.
Operations Partner <email@trgt.com>
Littleton, Co, USA - Saturday, May 22, 1999 at 17:04:35 (ZULU)
Sitting position
One battle that the Marines used the sitting position in was at Guadalcanal
in 1942. The Japanese retreating tried to swim seaward though the shallows.
From the beach the Marines could not use the prone because of the slope.
They loped up tight in the sitting position and started taking headshots.
Almost ever round fired was a hit!
The sitting position is useful while hunting in the high mountains.
This position allows high and low angle of fire. In these conditions of
open long-range shoots where animals are detected and tracked at great
distance there is lots of time to get it to position. You are usually sitting
on the side of a hill below the crest.
CJ
Cayley J Carson <T18man@gateway.net>
NEW CASTLE, DE, USA - Saturday, May 22, 1999 at 23:05:32 (ZULU)
I've been to the range and am trying some V-Max moly coated 55gr
bullets, 26 grs of Varget and Norma cases in my wifes Remington VLS .223
and have had great results. Now is there any specific type of cleaner I
should use or not use to remove the moly from the lands? I have Shooters
Choice and Hoppe's #9. Is there anything better? If you can drop me an
e-mail because lately I haven't had much time to spend reading and enjoying
the Roster. Sorry guys....
Todd <duckman@eznet.net>
Andover, NY, USA - Sunday, May 23, 1999 at 01:18:58 (ZULU)
Sarge from his hide takes a very tight bead on the Post Exchange
system and pulls the trigger!
Went to the PX today at my nearest military facility to buy - now
please note how "controversial" these items are - a pistol belt, Y-harness,
2 quart canteen and canteen cover and a first aid bandage pouch. Got to
the check out and was asked for my ID card. No problem I'm retired E-7.
Oh I'm sorry we cant sell "ISSUE ITEMS" to retired personnel!!!!! SAY WHAT!!!
I was given this stuff for 20 years to use as I wanted, when I wanted and
now that I'm retired and wanted to actually pay to have these items I'm
told I can't buy them???!!!! Yet I can get these EXACT SAME ITEMS - at
TWICE THE PRICE - from Brigade Quatermaster, US Cavalry Store and Ranger
Joes just to name a few! Oh but the PX WILL sell me BDU's and boots and
any other uniform items I want!!! Just not "TA-50"!! Would someone please
make an attempt to RATIONALY explain this stupidity to me!!
OK so I'm pissed and blowing off steam!!
Sarge
Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Sunday, May 23, 1999 at 04:41:21 (ZULU)
I would appreciate any information on building myself a tactical
rifle on a ruger 77 action. are there problems with this action? It seems
really smooth. Do gunsmiths mind working it? I would plan on a match grade
barrel as well as a proper fiberglass stock. what barrel and or stock would
work the best. without totally breaking the bank? Any insight on this would
be greatly appreciated.
Thomas Kuehrt <Tkuehrt@hotmail.com>
Calgary, Alberta, Canada - Sunday, May 23, 1999 at 07:32:33 (ZULU)
To the person that was interested in the PSS stock, have lost your
email address.
Federal GM 308 175 is about gone. None of my local weapons of mass
destruction dealers can find a supply. Can't remember the posts of various
suppliers listed. Please relist. Will 168 grain reach out at 1000?
Pablito, list could grow to over 50 pages. May take another 2 or
3 weeks off and on to finish.
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, May 23, 1999 at 13:48:23 (ZULU)
Outages: Sorry for the occaisional outages between yesterday and
now. We got the living S@#$@t beaten out of us with lightning yesterday
and last night. Our gear is okay, however it looks like GTE is working
some of their switches. This may happen abit more in the next day or so.
Ken :)
ken <impactarea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Sunday, May 23, 1999 at 15:57:37 (ZULU)
Army marksmanship training, as of 1998, is not all that great. While
I did learn to clear jams, field strip, clean and sight in the M16A2, it
was not an enlightning experience. All though three or four of us in my
platoon scored expert, we all came from rural backgrounds and learned to
shoot when we were young. While I have never used a jacket, I use a sling
to shoot off hand while hunting like my dad, not the Army showed me. Those
that had never fired a weapon, actually shot better than some of the guys
that had. So the training is helpful, just not complete. My buddy in the
Marines had fired a few rounds but with no real training now shoots really
well. We need to focus the training on real world combat and not peace
keeping and hope we never have to shoot!
Anyway, that's my opinion and I'm twenty years old and don't know
so much but this is a very good site and a special thanks to the writer
of the article for adjusting the trigger on a Remington 700. It shoots
much better!
Tomm O'Connell <HK13RILEY@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, May 23, 1999 at 17:39:39 (ZULU)
TOW missle launcher !
do any of you have some TM´s or detailed drawings ??
I have found a weapons pallet (lower unit) for my Airborne vehicle
and would like to make a look alike TOW launcher to complete it for a static
display. All I have are some pictures and I may get a 1:35 scale modell
of one.
Thanks
Torsten <lasercon@dialup.globe.de>
germany - Sunday, May 23, 1999 at 19:24:06 (ZULU)
Sarge: I know you are pissed!! I also have often wondered how come
we have to pay twice the price at US Cavalry, etc for government items
which we in fact do pay for with our tax dollar. Where are they gettting
these items and how are they getting them. This also really yanks my chain.
But one thing I will have to tell you Sarge and you may not like to hear
this, but the truth has to be told. Sarge, (poor Sarge) You are a CIVILIAN
again! Shit bricks and piss vinegar - but you are! Like most of us! Join
the club.
I havd the oportunity to go to the range again again and played around
with my 308 again and I am again floundering wiht handloads. I still have
yet to make a group of handloads comparable to the Federal Matchs (and
no I don't have any left either), Black Hills 168 moly Match (these shot
the best with 1/4 to 3/8 groups consistently, and some older LC match ammo
which I had for bout 10 years. I have yet to try some Vit 550 powder and
have tried 4064, Varget, 4895 and H-335. The best groups I have been able
to get is with the Vaarget powder (3/4 inch) The 178 Hornady still are
shit no matter what powder I use. I'm open for suggestions. Does anyone
know whether Black Hills maatch ammo is readily avaialble? Inquiring mines
whant to know!
al o.
Al Ostapowicz <aaosstapowicz@nls.net>
Lamenting over Po' Sarge's Fate in , Ohio, USA - Sunday, May 23, 1999
at 19:40:08 (ZULU)
Al: As I posted earlier, I recently got a case of Black Hills 175gr
moly .308 match ammo. It took my local shop 2 months to get it in. (And
the stuff is expensive too! Makes Federal 308M and 308M2 look cheap!) My
impression is that with all of the military contracts they are getting
now, plus with what seems to be a general (Y2K?) run on ammo in general,
that they're running behind on things, but that's just my take on it. Certainly
if the Federal ammo is getting scarce it will increase the demand for other
brands.
In any case if anyone needs BH ammo, I would order it as far ahead
of time as you can.
Anyone know if Federal is just between runs of their stuff or what
else might be behind the scarcity of their match ammo? Maybe the guys at
Hoplite know...
Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
San Jose, CA, USA - Sunday, May 23, 1999 at 21:27:16 (ZULU)
Al O,
Call Black Hills direct, if there isn't a dealer in your area they
sell direct.
To the individual that was looking for secure radios, contact me
I have a source. We will have these radios at SOF in Vegas, but that's
more than four months away.
Anyone else going to SOF this year?
Pat II
PL <nrdwr.plakin@state.ut.us>
Whiterocks, UT, USA - Sunday, May 23, 1999 at 21:48:54 (ZULU)
I'm buying a 16" A2 NM Bull Barrel Upper Half and plan on matching
it with a post-ban CAR lower with cheek piece. Those anyone think this
would be a good chose or should I just get a complete post-ban CAR-15?
Vee <coconutvee@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, May 23, 1999 at 23:26:51 (ZULU)
Dudes and Fellers,
We (Storm Mountain) just became a distributor for Black hills. We
are getting shipments as we speak. Call (304)446-5526. It shouldn't be
that much more than Federal. Federal has an attitude problem. They don't
want to supply the "little" guys. Screw'em.
Factory load 168's are marginal at 1000YDS if you are going to be
doing a lot of shooting greater than 800yds go with the 175's. 168's are
good to 800 no problem, otherwise it will depend on the temp, barometric
pressuer etc. Don't freak if you can't get the 175's, 168's still do a
good job.
Shot 800 Meter (880 yard) sniper match in canada with M852 (military
equivelent of Federal Match) and it did fine.
Go back to sleep.
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 00:18:51 (ZULU)
Uhh M852 is a 168 load by the way,
No go back to sleep.
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 00:20:11 (ZULU)
Could anyone give me a suggestion for OAL. I want to reload
Tack drivers for REM 700 PSS in 308. I’m not concerned with using
the magazine.
As I’m sure the length will be longer then the mag.
Any help would be appericated!!!!
Thanks
Guy <aurandga@bright.net>
Ohio, USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 01:01:50 (ZULU)
To all,
Just got back from the local Gun Show. There was a line about 100
long waiting to get in the door. Many had a gun or two, hoping to sell
before the new law kicks in. Seems like everyone is jumping on this Sniper
bandwagon one way or another. I saw some Mexican 22 long rifle ammo marked
sniper match. It was loaded with a 60 grain bullet and is supposed to penetrate
24 inches of ballistic jello at 200 yards. The same guys were also selling
some super short 12 gauge shotgun slug ammo. These babies are guaranteed
to double the mag capacity of your pump action shotgun.
Also spent some time at the local garden center. There is some plastic
netting out on the market now called Sunshade. It comes on a roll and sells
for 15 cents for a 4 foot by one foot section. It looks like it has all
kinds of possibilities for camouflage use.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 01:22:39 (ZULU)
Mr. Gooch: Can you please inform us as to how much you and Rod are
selling the Black Hills ammo. So far it is the best shootin' ammo for my
$2000.00 paper punch.
al o.
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
I got the Buck if yous guys have Black Hills ammo, Ohio, USA - Monday,
May 24, 1999 at 01:56:17 (ZULU)
Has anybody used the Tasco Super sniper Scopes
Can you tell me some pros and cons
Craig <craighanson@home.com>
USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 02:58:31 (ZULU)
Don't know what this Klingon Army needs to train riflemen. They
don't give you any ammo anyway. Just send you out with a .50 BMG in a jeep
to learn how to avoid being captured in Enemy Territory. Fit gets where
you can't get no Match Ammo. Try a RCBS Rock Chucker. You can surely make
better ammo than Black Hills robot machines. Fi Cudn't Id quit!
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 03:37:01 (ZULU)
To all:
Does anyone have any experience with import/export of a firearm
to other countries, particularly Australia?
I go there every year, but this year I am invited to a boar hunt
and would like to participate with my own rifle.
I've contacted the appropriate department and they said "no problem"
just fill out a form.
NOW I really dont want to lose my rifle at customs, and have heard
some horror stories about other countries..
Any input would be appreciated.. Feel free to email me any suggestion/comments.
Thanks
Bruce Hilsabeck
Bruce Hilsabeck <bruceh@ionet.net>
Lawton/Ft.Sill, Oklahoma, USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 05:17:11 (ZULU)
SOF: Myself and 3 other Gents from Awesome Arms shall be there as
a team. This is my first year at SOF, should be fun. Awesome Arms is run
by Dave Manning, who some of you may know as the Match director of the
Proskopatholon, a Sniper match run in 1997, as well as the Kennyatholon.
See www.awesomearms.com if your interested.
mike S <mws@ecom.net>
USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 06:15:42 (ZULU)
Craig - I use the Tasco SS10x42 and my only complaint with the scope
is that its not variable power and I wish the paralex adjustment was a
side turret like on the 10x42M,however the 10x42 has a built-in sunscreen
as the 10x42M does not. The optics are clear and the reticle is crisp.
You may want to read Scotts' review on this page.
Brent
Brent <koldbore@hotmail.com>
Shreveport, Louisiana, USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 07:50:55 (ZULU)
i think it is a great tradegy that we have lost the greates sniper
of all times ever since i read 93 confirmed kills i new he had to be the
best i dreament of meeting the man but now that will never happen i think
it is a great loss to every sniper everywhere and i hope to be a fraction
of the sniper that Carlos Hathcock was
Adam Peightal <wolvie6@hotmail.com>
Ft Carson, CO, USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 07:57:01 (ZULU)
Tigger50,
Thanks to you and all for the info. The sharing of infomation is
one of the great things about this sight!!!
So some more qustions?
The rifle that we are going to build will be as follows,,
Round, 338 Laupa.
Action, Sako TRG-S
Barrel, K&P 32" with a 1" muzzle dia.
Muzzle break, KDF or VAIS
Stock, McMillan Prone
Scope,Leupold Mk.4 M1 boosted to 20X or 24X ???
WE will be shooting sierra's 300 Gr. matchkings and hope to reach
the 3000 fps. mark. Dose this sound like a set up and ,what if any improvments
could be made??
What is brass is better ,Laupa or Norma?
Here what we did at the range , shot my 308@ 400 Yds. at B-27 targets(reduces)
shot 5 shots into a 1.865 groupe 4 out of 5 was .880 my rifle ,why it is
a winchester M70 Heavy Varmit with a 8.5 to 25x leupold with USMC Mildot
from Premier.
My load is, Brass, neck sizeded LC match, trimed to 2.005 ,debured
,primer pocket uni.,flash hole debured insided and out. Bullet, Berger
168 Gr VLD, Powder , 45.0 Gr.RE-15, primer,210 Fed match. This load chron.@
2865 Fps. with no pressure signs.
I also have a winchester M70 in a custom sharpshooter 300 Win Mag
I just got it back from R.W Hart&Sons here in Pa. I had a new barrel
put on it . A 26" Hart match fluted with a muzzle dia. of .925, just beaking
it in now.
Any comments or suggestions would appreciated!!!
LIVING THE GOOD LIFE HERE IN Pa.( untill they come for gunns.)
BigGunn out.
BigGunn <meghan@penn.com>
Mtn. Country, Pa., USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 11:23:30 (ZULU)
Herter's [1-800-654-3825] sells a 20'x20' piece of camo net for
$39.99. Being net, it is easy to wind vegetation through it. Weighs in
at around .0925 pounds per sq foot dry.
Old Dog
Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 14:10:27 (ZULU)
Netting on ghillies. Not a big fan of it except for the veil. Unless
you really do a good job of tacking it down it seems like its always snagging
on shit.
We have just begun work with a company to build a ghillie smock.
They also build BDU's on govt contracts so this thing is getting exciting.
It will have belt loops sewn on the areas where scrim needs to be attached.
If you are "snagged" on netting you can use the loops to attach a net.
Out here
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 14:28:11 (ZULU)
Hey guys, just got my T.R.G.T. Data book in the mail. After flipping
through the book its obvious more than a little thought went into its constuction.
I especially like the range estimation table and the target dimention pages.
There are also plenty of zero data pages where many books are shy in the
amount they provide. It's a winner.
Brent
Brent <koldbore@hotmail.com>
Shreveport, Louisiana, USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 15:57:09 (ZULU)
Big Gunn,
Only comment is about that Sako TRG action. It can be a finnicky
thing and the Dakota Arms is a more traditional design and much stronger
than the TRG. If you're going to try to push the 300 grainer to 3000 fps.
you'll need some special chambering, as in absolute minimum headspace,
which means hand selection of cases. Would recommend the Norma Brass. It's
stronger and higher quality.
Another recommendation actionwise is the McBros Talon action setup
for the .416 case head size. Very strong action because it uses rebated
locking lugs. Contact me at my email site for more data please.
Trigger50
Trigger50 <Dmicha@aol.com>
USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 16:19:01 (ZULU)
Jeff A,
On the dials for the 260 I sent you they should be right on depending
on your rifle and how fast the barrel is. My custom barrel is one MOA flatter
at 1000 than the factory but other than that the dials should put you on
target. The factory 260 loves the AMAX and the custom likes the 142s both
like Varget so that works out well. Shooting 3 shot groups with both guns
was hitting a 9" paper plate with at least one or more of the 3 at 900
and 1000yds. They both shot under MOA 95% of the time. There was no problem
with the dial being to far off one way or the other with the 3.5x10LR.
From the way both guns were shooting most of the rounds would have hit
a paper plate at all ranges from 800 to 1000 except for a fish tailing
wind that put us on one side or the other by a half of a MOA.
Al,
I shouldn't tell a "City boy" this but use Varget with the 168s
and they will shoot fine to 1000yds. I was using 45grs with LC Match brass
and they were doing close to 2800fps so staying suprersonic past 1000 was
no problem. If I would do my part (on a calm morning) I could keep 5 for
5 in a IPCS target at 1000. Then again you could just get a 260 and throw
on the 300WM cam and not worry about it, thats what Pete is thinking about
doing(HA)
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 16:21:03 (ZULU)
I've been looking for a Rem 700VS in 308, but since the RH version
has been dropped from the catalog, I am having a hard time finding anything
that isn't stainless.
I found a 700P-DM, but it only has a 20in. bbl.
What is reccomended as an alternative for the 200-700yd range while
keeping the rifle under $800?
Chris <titleman@stellar.net>
USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 16:22:49 (ZULU)
Big Gun: Sounds like a really neat project.
I don't believe 3000 fps. with the 300 gr. MK will be possible without
jeapordizing safety.Your velocity goals would likely be more easily achieved
with some of the high quality 250 gr. bullets on the market.Lapua's 250
gr. Scenars have a very high B.C. (.679 if I remember correctly).
If you want to persue this goal of 3000 fps. here are some things
you may wish to consider:
(1) AS ALWAYS!! work up your loads in small increments until tell-tale
pressure signs appear.
(2) You might want to try out Alliant's new Reloader 25.It is slower
than Reloader 22,so it may give you a bit of an edge over other available
powders.
(3) To get that velocity figure you just may have to free-bore that
chamber a little more than you would expect.The 300 gr. .338's are very
long, and you'll need all the powder capacity you can muster to cram in
as much powder as possible.
(4) Are you planning to use the 300 gr. Sierras exclusively ?If so,
perhaps your gunsmith can chamber your barrel specifically for your exact
combination.
(5) 32" is a decent length, but perhaps you may want to consider
up to 36"? Afterall, to achieve 3000 fps. you are going to need all the
length you can handle for those extremely slow buring powders to burn up
completely.
My experience with .338's is limitted, but I do enjoy the .340 Weatherby
Accumark I own.
Best of luck in your project,
Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 16:27:15 (ZULU)
I'm ghillie confused again.
Still struggling with the various methods. Burlap strips vs. bushrag
type, coveralls vs. 2-piece. Sounds like Leafy Wear with garnishments is
looking better all the time. Pablito, have you checked it out yet?
If I wasn't concerned about Al O. i'd get me a sheep costume.
Gooch, if you don't use netting of one kind or the other, how do
you attach the burlap and other woods stuff the suit? How will the smock
be made, got an idea of cost. Advantages? Still haven't heard from Rob
about ammo and prices.
Also Gooch, hold on to you money, I will know today if I got the
bid on the LBE stuff.
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 16:34:26 (ZULU)
Sorry Sarge, forgot it was you and not Gooch that needed the web
gear. I won the bid so email me with what you wanted to buy. We'll figure
out something.
The bartering Bolt, out
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 16:40:40 (ZULU)
Non-tactical question. Anyone familiar with the CZ line of pistols
? I'm interested in CZ 75B in 9mm.
thanks
andrew
Andrew <mysig@fast.net>
Broomall, PA, USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 16:41:59 (ZULU)
Hi Andrew,
My first centrefire auto was a CZ-75 brought in 1983,it is one of
the slickest 9mm around,smooth operation and virtually no sharp edge's
you don't have to have it dehorned.The gun I had(sold it,worst move I made)didn't
like minimum load's(to save powder)2/3 power lead reload's will function
alright.The gun is set up for full power load's,by today's std it's slightly
heavy compared to alloy or ploymer gun's.Rember my gun was a 1983 model,they
have changed a few minor point's of the gun,if you can handle the weight
it is a serious combat auto.
Chris
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
NZ - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 21:20:06 (ZULU)
Hi.
I have been debating between two rifles for a long time now, I have
been researching them quite a bit.
I trying to choose between a custom built PSG1 or an AT C24. I am
leaning toward the C24 because of their exellent reputation and it costs
about a 1,000 less. I have shot a PSG1 and loved it. It was the most comfortable
gun I have ever shot, the only downfall was it weighs 18+ lbs. Besides
that it's a semi auto and could have great advantages over a bolt gun.
I will using the rifle for competition, and hunting. If I got the PSG1
I would have to do some heavy duty weight lifting at the gym, so when I
take it hunting I will be able to hold the gun steady if I have to shoot
standing.
The C24 is garenteed to shoot average groups under 1/2 moa. The PSG1
is garanteed to shoot 1/2 moa. I wish I was rich so I wouldn't have this
problem. Then I could buy both.
Anyone who could help, please give me your thoughts.
thanks.
Nick <hkmp5_2222@yahoo.com>
slc, ut, USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 21:28:05 (ZULU)
Thanks Chris.
I searched newsgroups and people really seem to like CZs. It sure
is a slick looking gun plus it's half the price of my Sig. I did find the
CZ-USA web site and a write up on the CZ-100, polymer frame. It's smaller
and lighter then 75B. It sure will make a fine carry gun.
andrew
Andrew <mysig@fast.net>
Broomall, PA, USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 23:20:02 (ZULU)
Al O.
Remember load the pointy end of the bullet out of the cartridge case...........
E-mail me with specifics an I'll try to help. Got a new computer thingee
that can be converted to write like a crayon on LARGE lined paper so you
will be able to understand what I say too!
Pat(MR Bullet) Now don't you go spreading any more rumours and making
EWE know who more nervous than the local cloven ladies on Friday nite.
Have a great evening folks!
Chao!
peteR
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Monday, May 24, 1999 at 23:38:50 (ZULU)
Review on Badgers and Mark 4's. Just got my first set of Badgers.
Guys, spend the extra $25 and get the Badgers. The fit, finish and tolerances
beat the heck out of the Mark 4's.
Premier has just gotten a shipment in. The cost was $125 shipped
for the highs.
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 01:47:03 (ZULU)
Camo net can be a snag hassle, depending how you use it. We have
sewn it to BDU's, fairly snug, tying burlap or what have you to the "loose"
parts. Attach the net to the bdu with horizontal or cube stitching...if
done right it won't snag too much, if at all. The net at Herter's is just
a good starting point...also beats hell out of trying to keep your blind
from flapping in the wind when used as a stationary cover. Spray paint
some filament line to tie to weeds, brush, trees, whatever, push vegies
through the net = hide sweet home. Won't flap bad because of all the holes
in the net. Keep the urine bottle handy and the critters will literally
walk into the net so that you can pet them:) Next article, how to use frozen
camelback for keeping underhood temps down on a hot day:)
Old Dog
Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 02:37:01 (ZULU)
Andrew: The CZ85 9mm is one of the best stock out of the box pistols
I own. Good workmanship, reliability, operation and accuracy.
I also recieved the T.R.G.T. data book today. I've been comparing
it to the AWC systems and FM 23-10 data sheets I've used previously and
I congradulate the developers. I'm looking forward to using it. Any thoughts
on including 300 Win data in the future and also developing a Windows based
software program to record the same data. My laptop would love it.
I got a chance to apply the markmanship positions that have been
discussed here recently (ie sitting, off hand, unsupported prone) in a
service rifle match this weekend. They all have merit and work well with
an M1A but I still have to practice with that SWS. It was raining so hard
and windy, I had to blow the water bubbles out of my peep sight. Trying
to spot bullet holes with a spotting scope at 200 yds was almost impossible.
But you just have to love it.
Scott and Mike: Are the next batch of slings almost ready ? It would
sure help in the practicing. Thanks....
Tony Y <ayackowski@rcn.com>
Iselin, NJ, USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 02:39:51 (ZULU)
First time on the site. Outstanding info. I am a former Marine.
I was
not a 0311/8541 but a 2145.
My current rifle is a Savage 10 20 inch barrel, sharps trigger job
2.2 crisp lbs. A ultimate sniper stock, harris bi pod, a ZF 95 kahles
scope 10x42 mil dot of course.
looking foward to future visits to your site
Semper Fi
Ted.
Ted A hakey Jr. <ted@yahoo.com>
shelton, ct, USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 03:47:16 (ZULU)
Got my data book from T.R.G.T.-L.L.P. (can we, in proper military
fashion, come up with a good acronym for this alphabet soup? Like "Target
Lip" or something? :) Anyway I digress. The contents of this book are probably
the best I've seen overall. I prefer the physical construction of the NSW
book (cordura case which holds pencils, etc) but it's also twice as expensive
and this one is still quite good.
The data at the beginning is particularly yummy. The square (zero)
and circle (bullseye) target patterns should make this work for a wider
audience than most other pre-made logbooks. (There's probably nothing like
making your own and this book won't be ideal for everyone.) The 3-ring
version would be nice because you could add/remove pages as needed to suit
your needs - I ordered one of those but Butter Bar, Esq. sent me the spiral
type. (Did I just hear a loud "Doh!" coming from the Rockies? :)
Other than a few minor nitpicks here and there, the book is a nice
piece o' work. Very well done, guys.
One suggestion for users wrt the range estimation tables: There is
one table for yards and one for meters, and you probably will want to stick
with one or the other. To avoid using the wrong one by accident I would
lightly tape the pages you aren't using together. They're set up perfectly
for this.
Making tabs for frequently-used pages, with some tape or whatever,
is probably a good idea too.
I'll shut up now.
Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
San Jose, CA, USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 06:33:18 (ZULU)
"Target Lip" Data book: Also got mine in the mail today. Looks well
laid out and chocked full of good info. I like it better then the LOD one
for sure. Only nit pick would be the style of binding, the rear plastic
cover is easy to pull/fall off with moderatly rough handling. Of course
the 3 ring would solve this. Page tabs for each section would be great
also, I will add my own. Otherwise, $40 well spent.
mike S <mws@ecom.net>
USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 08:07:47 (ZULU)
Am looking for input on reloading tools/machines for .308...
What do you use? Why?
What machine to buy? Which to stay away from?
Do multistage (like Dillon XL 650) offer same precision as singlestage?
Any thoughts on Dillion XL 650?
As always, all help is much appriciated.
This board makes work go by a lot better... 8 )
Also, gonna post results of cold beverage and dinner bets from Carlos?
Buk <bukowski@bellsouth.net>
Al-E-ga-tor, by Gawdy, Louisiana, USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 11:55:51
(ZULU)
Data Book Update:
Just about all orders have been shipped. We're going to be receiving
more early next week. Many thanks to all for your comments about the books.
We are working with our printer today to improve the book to address the
binding concerns, and we'll let you know how it goes. Dave, drop us an
e-mail, and we'll get you the right book!
Regarding comparisons to other data books on the market: They all
have their good and bad points, even T.R.G.T.'s. We at T.R.G.T. went with
the maximum number of good points, and the minimum of bad points (recognizing
that to some extent what's good and bad is a matter of taste). Importantly,
we wanted to provide you with a book that works at a price that won't bankrupt
you.
Everyone has their own binding preference; they all have weaknesses.
Notebook style binders (metal or plastic) break; spirals bend; 550 cord
is not easy to use as there are problems turning pages; traditional book
binding (such as found on the FBI's books) does not allow one to turn pages
easily and leave the book open to a particular page, plus they crack with
age. T.R.G.T., unlike the others, gives you an option here sprial or 3-ring.
Plus, we are working with case manufacturers to be able to provide you
with a nylon case (spiral and 3-ring versions).
Tabs are a great idea and one we considered as well. Without going
into details, if we can include them in future books, without significantly
raising costs we will add them.
Hold hard and squeeze!
Operations Partner <email@trgt.com>
Littleton, CO, USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 13:40:37 (ZULU)
Slings: Tony, my understanding is Sniper Country has a bunch of
slings. I have no outstanding orders for them that I know of.
If SC is out and the order is on the way to me, Storm Mountain has
a bunch in stock. Talk to Rod or Gooch. Another place is TRGT. They will
have some next week. The ones that have already placed orders with them
are being shipped straight from me this time. I was late filling my order
to TRGT. My fault not them.
TRGT also has that excellent data book for sale. If you guys value
anything I say, get one for every rifle you use in a tactical situation.
If they had come out with it before I wouldn't of had to steal all that
info from everyone and spend hours and hours making something that cost
more and is not as good as TRGT's
As to test I am waiting for Leupold to decide if they can loan me
a scope for the test. If not I will go with another manufacture.
The Undude Mike
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif., USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 15:42:51 (ZULU)
On attaching natural veg to ghillie.
Rubber bands work well and have other uses.
I guess I need to clear something up. WHen I said I didn't like netting
I said that I prefer belt loops sewn into the uniform. You can use nylon
webbing or pieces of 550 cord etc. Sew the loops so they go up and down
not L-R to further reduce snagging and make sure they lay flat. Advantage
to this is you can do this to all of your field BDU's and have an instant
ghillie when you need it. THe loops are invisible to enemy observers when
operating with regular grunts, which is a good thing. Pre-scrimed ghillies
work good for schools but are WAAAAY too bulky for actual operations. Ever
try to squeeze a chewbacka suit into a ruck? I used to let the S-2 transport
my ghillie until it came up missing. SOme freeking pogue heisted the MF.
Thanks for the feedback on the databook. Spead the word, who knows
we might actually start making money on it someday. Scaaarrry thought.
Out-o-here
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 15:50:33 (ZULU)
Oh yeah - Gut the 550 cord before sewing it on the suit as it lets
it lay even flatter.
Out o here agin
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 15:52:06 (ZULU)
OpPartner: I'll be just as happy adding my own tabs, no big deal
there. I'll send you an email offline about swapping out my book, etc.
Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
San Jose, CA, USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 15:57:11 (ZULU)
CARPOOL !!!
we´ll be attending SMTC from the 7th until the 18th of June,
anyone else going to be there that would want to join us in getting a rent
a car pool, or would be our ride from and to SMTC for a generous fuel donation
?
Let me know so that I know what size vehicle to reserve.
see ya there
"Ende"
Torsten <lasercon@dialup.globe.de>
Germany - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 16:13:05 (ZULU)
Got my copy of the data book yesterday. I ordered the 3 ring version
and really impressed by the work you did on it. Thanks
Mike <Mikeroyexc@aol.com>
Florence, MT, USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 16:41:32 (ZULU)
Hey guys, I need a way to get a hold of Badger Ordanace, I got their
phone number from from the "In Review" page but nobody has been returning
my calls. And I think that particular number that is listed may recently
have been converted to a Fax line. Any help would be appreciated.
Casey
Casey <caseyb@scs.unr.edu>
Nevada, USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 18:39:47 (ZULU)
Yo Guys,
Just talked to Marty Bordson of Badger Ord. Don't know what number
you have but the number is (816)455-3704. SC triumpherate, you guys might
want to check this and make sure the new number is on the "in review" page.
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 21:59:30 (ZULU)
I know this should probably go on the Emporium but I'm not the one
selling so its for info only, as far as I'm concerned. I was in my local
gun store today and ran across a LEFTY M700 VS in .308. Since Remington
dropped the VS from their line this year(stupid move), I thought some of
you lefties out there might be looking for one. It's new in the box, and
the're asking $579.00. Call 901-324-8346 and ask for Bert if you're interested.NO---
I don't work there, but they do support our department.They also have a
few PSS's in stock.
OUT HERE
Jamison <Longshot1000@yahoo.com>
Memphis, TN, USA - Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 23:23:03 (ZULU)
A moment of clarity....
Guys, when I say that a tactical ghillie doesn't need a lot of shit
on it don't confuse that with me saying that there is not a place for a
full bore ghillie. In many situations such as with police work there will
be many times when a chewbacka suit would be handy.
Most police snipers don't have to hump 20 miles and sit in an OP
for 3 days and have the gear to support the OP. An infantry sniper has
to do these things so his ghillie needs to be LIGHT! Cops and others may
only have to walk a mile or so and have to lay in an OP 75 yards from a
meth lab or something. You know, never more than 5 minutes from the nearest
MacDonalds type thing.
In these situations a full bore ghillie would be called for. I've
had a cop buddy have to crawl between a row of houses to watch drug deals
and his ghillie he made for the National Guard School made the difference.
Suits like the ones made by KUSA and others do have their applications.
Now stop the email!!!! Jeeze! They wonder why I drink!!
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 01:22:45 (ZULU)
MORE ON THE TRGT LOG BOOK.Here is my two cents.I got my log book
monday and it was well worth the money.Plenty of good information in it.If
you are looking for a log book,this is the one.Good work Gooch.Also thanks
to hugo at TRGT for getting me log book out so soon.
SFC PETE CARPENTIER JR TXNG <PETEC@CIRIS.NET>
C.C., TEXAS, USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 03:36:17 (ZULU)
Hi all, I know this has been kicked around before, I just couldn't
find it in the archives.
A buddy of mine bought a rifle and says bolt seems to be operating
somewhat roughly. I wondered if we could do some type of polishing job
instead of sending it to the shop for lapping etc. BTW it is a Winchester
Laredo.
Thanks
jake <maryld@1st.net>
oh, USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 12:02:25 (ZULU)
Need listings for .308 dealers. Storm Mountain now has a waiting
list. Please include phone numbers and/or email addresses. No need to email
me, everyone here probably needs the same poop.
Guess it's time to start reloading. You out there lurking SGT MJR
Nick?
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 12:14:27 (ZULU)
Buk; The RCBS rock chuckers are probably the best for the price.
Be sure you get a H-press. The C types are usually not strong enough.
Dillion makes the only progressive that even tries to work for under
a fortune. I don't recommend progressives for anything but mass pistol
rifle production but they will put a lot of rounds together. Only thing
is if you need a part and times are "hard" like they are about to get it
may not be possible to get parts. Hornady makes a fair single stage. For
survival work the Lee will work but again stay with the single stage. They
will rust less in da swamp. Even a lee hand tool for one caliber will get
you by.
Men; you can make a Pancho with Gunny Sack Camo stuff you get at
Walmart Get some camo cloth tape and line (seam) the holes where you put
yo head!You can sew the seams if you want to make it better.
Seam the bottom with Camo tape and cut 3 or 4" triangles with the
same stuff fold the triangles and sew them on (many as you want) with Cat
Gut fish line at the bottom. It's 3 Dimensional and weighs nothing There
are no arm holes. It will bundle very small. Not as good as a dust mop
chewbaka for classes but it works better on LRP cause you don't have 9
lbs to carry. The head hole makes a good place to shoot from as it can
be used for a stationary blind. Make it about a foot longer in one direction
from the head hole for extra cover while you crawl. In very light colored
grass it is reversible and gunny sack (light) colored on the back side.
Sew some triangles on that side too if you want. You can sew camo tape
loops on for vegitation if you want too. Whole thing takes a while to make
but it's cool and shields against bug attacks. When we it's like any Ghilly
only not so heavy.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 12:35:12 (ZULU)
Forgot to Recommend the RCBS Starter Kit for about $250 or so. It
has everything you need but bullets and powder. Don't be surprised if you
can't get one locally. All the reloading shops have died from lack of interest.
Get a good Micrometer or caliper $15 to 25 from reloaders.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 12:40:27 (ZULU)
I am trying to develope a moving target for Tactical Shooting training.
The range that I am using has no AC power, and the Coyotes and Crows do
not always show up on schedule. I have used the target on a track method
with a series of pulleys and monofil line but past about fourty yards it
become inpractical. I need somehing that is some what mobile and cost not
more than a couple of hundred dollars.
Ideally it would be a target that travels a distance, and not just
wobbles. I have seen Military Surplus turning targets, but they were AC
powered and I have no idea of a source for them. I will be very grateful
for any advice.
R. Gilley. <Rockie.Gilley@fmr.com>
Arlington, Texas, USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 16:33:40 (ZULU)
Does anyone know where I can buy some 308 190 grn Norma match? What
are the prices?
Also does anyone know how the Norma match 190 grn compare to fed
175
grn? Specifically the tragetory and speed. Which one is better at
long ranges like 1,000 yds? Thanks.
Nicholas <hkmp5_2222@yahoo.com>
slc, ut, USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 16:55:40 (ZULU)
Seems like Tactical Shooter had a good article on mil-dot use, etc.
a few months back. Was this the 10/98 issue? (If so, I gave mine away,
#@$%#!!, but I can borrow another) Any other sources for mil-dot use, instruction,
etc. are appreciated. Sorry for what might be a FAQ, so I'm FAQing off
now. Thanks.
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Livermore, CA, USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 17:30:30 (ZULU)
Reloading: My neighbor and I have had good luck with a Dillion 550
for both .308 and .45 ACP. We use two complete tool heads, one for each
caliber and use an RCBS press for full length resizing of rifle brass.
Even a klutz like me can reload several hundred rounds per hour on a Dillion
550.
Mike O'Brien <bopm@aol.com>
Evansville, WY, USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 19:44:07 (ZULU)
Not to turn this into an ad board, but a local dealer has 2, 500
round cases of Fed Gold Match, 168 gr., in stock, says it is hard to get?
Anyway, his price is $410 per case here, which seems high to me. If you
just have to have it, drop me a note...I don't feel comfortable putting
his name / phone on internet.
Old Dog
Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 20:27:12 (ZULU)
Buk,
You wrote: "The C types are usually not strong enough".
Your posting brought this to mind.
I use RCBS Juniors which are steel and of the O type. Once I was
concerned as to why all .308 case shoulders were not being pushed back
equally. This was leading to a different feel of the bolt handle from round-to-round.
Hmmm. I jury-rigged a dial indicator to measure the distance from the die
to press base. I was amazed at the amount of spring in those supposedly
rigid presses. I don't remember the figures, but I think it was on the
order of 5 to 8 thousandths inch or so. Each case was springing the press
different amount too, so it was no wonder I was running into problems when
minimal sizing. Now when setting up a die I check the first 10 or so cases
in the rifle chamber with a dismantled bolt. If the bolt handle doesn't
fall on all of them, I lower the die a smidgen until I'm satisfied.
Even the strongest presses aren't really rigid. Think of them as
hard rubber.
Ron N.
Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
Ohio- Home of the worthless nuts., USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at
20:38:33 (ZULU)
Mike;thanks for the report on the 550. I have never heard anything
but good about them. A few hunters around here use them on .223 and like
them real well. I don't know where the H came from on the press thing.
But anyway your press should be O type and not C if you are to handle the
resize correctly. It is possible to neck size only quite well with a c
press. I wouldn't buy one though. The tactical shooters will go into a
feeding frenzy if I suggest neck sizing only but the trick to reloading
for serious shooting is to try that ammo before you get into the field
and be sure it chambers correctly. A little wear on the extractor perhaps
but what's success worth? It is certainly true that even the most rigid
press will give some.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 22:23:17 (ZULU)
I have a 550 and it's great. When I first started reloading I used
cheap equipment and it made reloading a living hell, and I dreaded it.
The 500 (and an RCBS electronic scale) made it pretty close to being fun.
What a difference. I mostly use it to crank out .45ACP in large quantities,
but there are arguments out there for progressive-loading of match ammo.
There was an article in Precision Shooting, last year I think, on
flex in various (single-stage) presses. Interesting article if you're into
that sort of thing.
Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
San Jose, CA, USA - Wednesday, May 26, 1999 at 23:09:51 (ZULU)
Thanks for all the info on the presses.
Knew SC board would come through with not
so obvious information.
B.Rogers- you sold me. Thanks.
Next question from the fng...
Is it acceptable to break in with mil-spec rounds,
or do I need to break in with Match/quality rounds?
Thanks, buk
Buk <bukowski@bellsouth.net>
Lookin at flashin hoots in New Orleans, LA, USA - Wednesday, May 26,
1999 at 23:54:01 (ZULU)