Sniper Country Duty Roster
May 2000
A field craft question,
I,m finally breaking down to the preassure of the 90's, it's time
to buy a GPS. Any thoughts, suggestions on a GPS with boundary mapping
and MGRS ( military grid reference system ) location capability? So far
it looks like the Magellan GPS 420 will be the way to go, all I need plus
nautical nav aids for those times when an amphib insertion is needed. Any
suggestions from the gang would be helpful
Semper Fi
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , ny, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 00:25:49 (ZULU) (your host
address: 12.28.201.70)
Flash Hiders - Don't use them because they leave an even larger
signature when viewed through a night vision device. Add the muzzle break
feature and the signature is huge even during the day with all the crap
blown around. I know that I am seeing this from the military point of view,
but if you want a flash hider, what is your intention and where are you
using this device?
Pete - We use A191 just like the rest of the boys and girls in the
military. It has been declared the only "official" round. Maker is unknown
to me, I just shoot the stuff, I don't analyze it. It does shoot nicely
in our 300 Win Mags though and is sufficently accurate to bring down anyone
who would like to incroach into my space on the battlefield. Sent Gooch
data on the round along with base comeups and wind formula constants with
an average constant for those without calculator and do not pocess WV toes.
(Sorry, Gooch couldn't resist).
Drap Bags - Don't use them, don't recommend them. Use a scope cover
and Mike's muzzle cover. You do not need more. The use of a drag bag will
get you into trouble as you fight the rifle out of the bag within spittin
(200 meters) distance of an observer. If you do it under cover, then you
are still crawling with it unprotected. Then after the shot you have find
the dam thing. If you don't then they will, and then know where to start
for the hunt. If you unbag at the FFP then I can guantee (as several students
have found out) that you will be spotted. Again this is the military point
of view coming out in me. I hate them and will not use them.
GI Joe - Why in the heck do you want Redfield Palma Sights? They
are a disaster. They are the only sight I know of that can become a flying
formation of "nuts and bolts" (or tiny screws and smaller ball bearings)
in the middle of a match. They are not a tactical sight and why Remington
put them into the overall M24 package is beyond me. I would of opted for
a simpler Iron sight such as the Lyman. Would it give me the un-needed
quarter minute of angle adjustments? No but then I don't need nor want
them. It would, however, allow me to engage targets to 600 meters without
worrying about which piece will break now. Ask a British Palma Team member
why they wear a rubber band around their ties sometime. We are in a constant
search to replace the ones we have now at our school. Remington has some
but I don't know how many and how long they will last. We have scavenged
parts from all our broken ones and we bought a bunch 6 years ago which
have now been placed on weapons as replacements for the flying formations.
Max Effective Range - Now there is a subject full of pit falls and
problems. The max effective range is that range at which the shooter can
reasonable engage a target. Now what is reasonable? The military's first
criteria is seeing the sucker. Irong sights versus scope will make a big
change. A 308 with iron sights against a soldier in a hole that is camouflaged,
range MAYBE 200 to 300 meters. Out in the open with the same system, 400
to 500 meters unless he is running for cover. Add a scope and you now have
the max effective range to 800 meters according to the miltary(all though
I don't agree with that assessment and think it should be shorter say at
700 meters). That should bring out the "but SEALs make first round head
shots at 1000" crowd. Now these are considered first round hits at ranges
determined by the shooter through whatever means. HOWEVER, add a shot out
barrel and the max effective goes for naught. The max effective range is
based on the shooters ability to see the target for engagement with the
system he is using AND the system he is using. There are more factors but
that about does it. There clear as mud!
Guess I'll shut up now and go back to wishing I had a year off to
go around and bug everyone in person. Got to get to the left coast so that
I can really bug Mike though.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 00:29:12 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.206.196)
Liar,liar, pants on fire. I finally shot my .308 Police with a Leupold
M3(.308M)out to 1,000 yds. and my 175 Sierra MatchKings at 2600 fps were
pretty much right on the money.
yards BDC
200 2
300 3
400 4
500 5
600 6-1
700 7-1
800 8-1
900 9-1
1000 10-1
Anybody else having similar results. There was a bit of confusion
about the BDC's as to which bullet with what velocity worked. It's pretty
simple. Count the moa's on which ever BDC you're using and match it to
the closest drop tables in the Sierra manual. By the way, we had our butts
kicked by my partner using a 20" TAC-ORD .308 at 1,000 yds. Shooting prone,
he put 10 out of 15 rounds into 7". Not bad, considering he had to dial
in 14 clicks (70")into the wind.
dan <danr@acnet.net>
Deep South, Texas, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 01:59:25 (ZULU) (your
host address: 170.76.45.115)
A favor guys, if any of you have any information about a company
called Tactical Options and Solutions Inc, out of Florida please contact
me. It seems they are sellinga copy of my sling without my permission.
We all know that is not right and my sling has been around out here for
many years. It is my design and anyone selling it better have my permission.
This may be a misunderstanding but a few guys at the Sniper Craft Comp
said he was selling a copy of my sling and acting as if he designed it.
Very Low Dude!
Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 02:35:02 (ZULU) (your host address:
152.163.213.62)
Mike' is right on if I interpret him correctly and he should be
with his experience. No need to unsling or draw until weapons are seen.
It takes about a thousandth of a second to unholster a handgun and it's
far less threatening that way. If you look outside and see a team ready
to go, you got to be suicidal to draw your weapon against them and if you
they are suicidal there is no way to avoid it anyway. Never walk into and
face a drawn gun but never draw one first unless shots have already been
fired or guns brandished. IF there were guns and intentions to use them
there, there were plenty of hostages on the premises and to enter the way
they did would have probably provoked hostage taking and even the boy himself
could have been used
.
Rick;is still right about drag bags I think! And dead on about Iorn
sights. A Palma shooter recently told me that he could shoot groups as
tight as my scope at 300 yards where I replied, I'm sure you mean into
the sunset on a target made out of camo paper. He said no, he meant a Palma
target in good light. Contrary to most belief's those iorn sights aren't
neccessarily less likely to fail than a scope. And aren't always as rugged.
That includes M-1 and M-16 sights especially. Most good scopes will stand
just about anything a iorn sight will. And contrary to what just about
everyone thinks you can hit a moving target with a scope better than with
iorn sights if you are trained to do it. (that means with practice you're
better on running or moving shots with a scope). The flak should fly over
that one. I've read several books written on the subject by men who should
and claim they do know by having done it....that imply that a Sniper rifle
is totally worthless on close moving shots. That might have some validity
on a 32 power Unertl fixed power scope of the Vietnam era but modern 3.5X10
Variables are usable damn close. A lot of Vietnam Snipers or even today's
Snipers are trained to govt. specs but actually lack the experience to
make moving shots with scopes. I don't mean so called movers (more of a
learned game) I mean real jumping darting dodging meat. OK let the good
times roll! Incoming!
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 02:55:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Bill,
Have to respectfully disagree....I am not exactly a fan of SWAT teams
in custody cases, but not drawing until there is a gun pointed at you is
a good way to get killed.
You claim that a gun can be drawn in 1/1000th of a second..Ever try
it from a Security-III holster???? There are three motions in the draw
of some of those rigs. (release retention straps, free the retention device,
then come up)
Conventional wisdom is that if a person is 20 feet away, and armed
with a knife or impact weapon, and you had better be moving, and have a
plan. The reason is that a person can cover 20 feet in the time you recognize
a threat and react. If the weapon bad guy has is a gun, you have ZERO time.
A 1/4 inch of trigger travel can happen a TON faster than a draw, everytime.
In a house, on an entry, if you turn a corner, and an armed man is
there, you are FINISHED. Rule number one of close combat,you can't out
draw a drawn gun. Most LE folks know that seeing a gun, prior to the bad
guy having it in play leaves you an advantage, albeit small. Recognizing
a gun, when you are staring down the muzzle means you are DEAD if your
gun is in leather....
BTW: I agree with Mike's assessment, knock and announce (LE 101 i
suppose). Maxing out the ROE prematurely doesn't give much space to maneuver
later. But if you have to kick in the door, I don't think I would be the
first through it without a weapon in hand.
dan-o
p.s. That wound up longer than I planned....sorry
dan-o <dan.overbey@compaq.net>
Morgantown, WV, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 03:37:41 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.15.80.30)
Anyone have experience with an accuracy comparison between a Remington
700 short action mounted in an AICS kit and an actual AI AW or AWP in 308?
Is an actual AW or AWP more accurate and worth the extra money?
Also ref to article on LBT tac 3 day pack vrs ALICE. I bought an
ALICE over a decade ago new for $39.00 w/o frame. It has served me well
since and I never had to tape straps or buckles. I found it very versatile
and tough for the price. Buying used surplus smelly gear for a critical
mission is never a good idea. I think the ALICE was given a bad rap that
was not deserved.
Joe <josparks@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 04:13:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.165.122.92)
Just thought I'd put my $.02 worth in on drag bags. Personally,
I have a Blackhawk, and really like it. Course, I do alot of shopping at
a particular tactical shop, and get a 10-20% discount on alot of items,
and they just happen to carry Blackhawk gear. Like I said, it's great,
all my ammo and everything I need is all in one easy to carry case.....for
the range. When going to the range I don't need to hunt around for what
I need. But that's all it is for me, a range bag. When headed to the field
(big game hunting in my case), I leave the bag in the truck. Whether you're
a duty slooted sniper, or civilian hunter, I gotta agree with Rick, excessive
movement is costly. For a hunter, you'll spook that trophy buck, for a
sniper attempting to bring his rifle into possition, the price is alot
higher.
RD
RD <kheldaar@lvcm.com>
Lost Wages, NV, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 04:52:33 (ZULU) (your
host address: 24.234.0.80)
hey folks:
heard a lot of talk on the barrel break in issue, has anyone checked
out
http://www.jarheadtop.com/Kriger%20Barrels.htm
sounds about right to me
catch ya later!!
JR <westernpump@sullybuttes.net>
rapid city, sd, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 05:11:18 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.193.171)
Rick
-----
Hi,
I just thought to get the Redfields'iron sight just as back up to
my Leupold MARK4 M3,nothing more.
So what's the best in yr opinion ?
Mike Miller
-----------
I'm with you about the U.S.Optics scopes,I have three of them and
I'm
so satisfied,they are outstanding.
I also visited their plant in California,Dott. J.Williams (CEO)
was so
nice showing to me any product and every work process in their warehouse.
I strongly reccomend them.
G.I.Joe <ggijoe@hotmail.com>
Italy - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 11:22:42 (ZULU) (your host address:
62.11.35.226)
On the AICS issue. I have seen this lately and it just came up again
so I have to post. For those of you that are waiting for the "soon to be
released" 10 round mag, they have been telling people that for over a year
and a half. When we were on friendly terms with AI and before the AICS
was released for sale, we got to play with the test version. We were told
then that the 10 round mag would be out with the production AICS. Then
it was in a few months, then again in a few months, and again, and here
it is a year and a half later an nobody has seen anything.
As for the Ai full rifles... Just know that the rifles they are
selling have American made barrels. The entire rifle is not made overseas
and imported. Is this a bad thing? Not necessarily, but what is a bad thing
is that they are telling people and/or leading them to believe that their
rifles are completely from England. If you have one, how can you tell?
There will be a stamp on the barrel of a crown. It is the import/export
stamp. It will be the same one that you see on the action and bolt. If
your barrel does not have one up close to the action, then the barrel was
made here. A customer of ours recently ordered and AI rifle, he was told
that all barrels were now made in Europe and that the US barrel shop was
closed (we have major problems last year with their barrels). The guy ordered
the rifle, paid $5000 for the rifle, and received a rifle without the stamp.
The contour of the barrel is slightly different and the color is definitely
different. If you put it next to an older AI rifle you can see the difference
in the barrels right away. He took the new rifle out and it shoots very
well, so at least on this rifle the US barrel is good. But telling a customer
one thing and shipping another isn't right.
Thomas <email@snipersparadise.com>
South tip of , Texas, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 12:20:29 (ZULU)
(your host address: 166.72.161.185)
Quick point on this whole Cuba custody thing...
Someone dropped the ball and let this get big (he or she should be
fired).... I suggest we all shut up and let it get small again. We pay
taxes (in the US) so that our legal system, and our INS agency will handle
these issues with the best interest of the country and the child in mind.
If we want to rethink OUR process in place to deal with these issues,
lets take a look at the process as a whole and not "case study" this one
situation.
In my mind, this is an awful lot like a senior officer micro-managing
a subordinate...it becomes over-whelming and is not responsible to the
system as a whole....let the $60,000. / year INS guy do his job and let's
keep costs below a million per case...please
Who benefits from this stupidity? (lawyers, news-people and politicians)
...who pays? (Children, Law Enforcement Agents and US!)
OK, I'm done.
Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 12:46:26 (ZULU) (your host address:
12.20.190.1)
I don't agree with the goverment even getting involved in what I
feel is a civil matter but since they have and everyone has an opinion
on what was done and now the "SWAT" guys are taking all the heat on this.
I for one think all of you arm chair quarter backs need to set back and
ask yourself what would "YOU" do if you had to go through the door to get
the kid from a house full of people who didn't want him taken away and
also with a whole neighborhood full of people outside.
Mike had a plausable solution but then again I would think that
if he were put in charge of going in with his people and there were an
unknown number of people inside (Armed or Unarmed) you willing to bet your
life or your peoples lives on them not being armed??? Then there are all
the people who were outside just waiting for something to happen so they
can get on TV, you all seen how they reacted when they left with the kid,
do you think they would just let you come up and knock on the door?? I
don't think so either?? Didn't they have weeks to give the kid back if
they were going to??
Like I said I don't agree with the goverment getting involved in
the first place but I don't feel it was heavy handed from a "Tactical"
stand point. The job of a Tact team or a SWAT team is to do just what they
did, in and out with as little damage as possible. JOB WELL DONE!! There
that should liven up monday morning!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 12:52:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)
Off topic, but what the heck, I liked it.
TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES
> >
> > This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
> > America: The Good Neighbor.
> >
> > Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
> > recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from
> > Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
> > commentator. What follows is the full text of his
> > trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional
> > Record:
> > “This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
> > Americans as the most generous and possibly the least
> > appreciated people on all the earth.
> >
> > Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and
> > Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the
> > Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
> > forgave other billions in debts. None of these
> > countries is today paying even the interest on its
> > remaining debts to the United States.
> >
> > When the France was in danger of collapsing in 1956,
> > it was the Americans who propped it up, and their
> > reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets
> > of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
> >
> > When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the
> > United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
> > American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
> > Nobody helped.
> >
> > The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
> > billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now
> > newspapers in those countries are writing about the
> > decadent, warmongering Americans.
> >
> > I’d like to see just one of those countries that
> > is gloating over the erosion of the United States
> > dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country
> > in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo
> > Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?
> > If so, why don’t they fly them? Why do all the
> > International lines except Russia fly American Planes?
> >
> > Why does no other land on earth even consider putting
> > a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese
> > technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German
> > technocracy, and you get automobiles.
> >
> > You talk about American technocracy, and you find
> > men on the moon - not once, but several times -
> > and safely home again.
> >
> > You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs
> > right in the store window for everybody to look at .
> > Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.
> > They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
> > they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American
> > dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
> >
> > When the railways of France, Germany and India
> > were breaking down through age, it was the Americans
> > who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and
> > the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an
> > old caboose. Both are still broke.
> >
> > I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced
> > to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name
> > me even one time when someone else raced to the
> > Americans in trouble? I don’t think there was outside
> > help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
> >
> > Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I’m one
> > Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
> > kicked around. They will come out of this thing with
> > their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled
> > to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating
> > over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not
> > one of those.”
> >
> > Stand proud, America!
Kevin R. Mussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, NY, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 13:00:44 (ZULU)
(your host address: 208.32.221.139)
Dan; you say a lot of truth there, but I believe I said not to draw
on a drawn gun if you can help it. Actually you can defeat that but the
first move is evasion of his sights. Most people cannot correct for a fast
side move fast enough to live through it. Once you have side stepped his
sights and ruined the initial sighting you would be in fair shape especially
if he isn't using a shot gun, and you have a vest. If and only if you can
get your gun out. The holster you speak of is not a holster it's a drag
bag! Don't be caught dead with one of those if you can help it, no pun
intended.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 13:10:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Guys, we do not use SWAT for all entries and we do not draw our
weapons every time we go into a house. Only when we have a reasonable fear
that harm may come to us can we point a weapon at a person. That means
if we know the persons to be unarmed and the offense is a non violent one
you start out low key until circumstances change. Look at it this way the
two most dangerous things we do as cops is make car stops and domestic
disputes. I have been on many of each and taken weapons off many folks
from these cases, but are you ready for cops to come into your house with
MP5's because you and your old lady have a fight about burnt toast or because
your registration is expired. I do not think so. Well in my eyes those
two last cases havea much greater potential for violence than the Miami
thing. When you say it is OK in a custody case of this nature you have
opened a box you dont want to. Enough Said.
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 13:51:36 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.188.200.28)
Has anyone gotten the new Leica Rangefinder yet... if so, how do
you like it, and how well does it range on dirt, trees, etc in bright sunlight
(not white houses)...
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 14:31:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.70)
Bill,
Agreed. We were taught to get low and get the heck out of the way.
Make any move, but make a move, when looking at a gun. This applies even
if you have a weapon drawn, as presenting a full frontal shot while you
line up your sights is not a great idea either. I have some SF friends
who were taught really cool tactics in these cases, unfortunately they
are hard to teach at most LE training facilities.
I also see Mike's point very clearly. Using SWAT tactics everytime
law enforcement is needed is a kind of coercion on the citizens of this
country (all of us!!) are not going to be happy with.
Mike, did you have any luck tracking down the rodent copying your
sling design?
dan-o
dan-o <dan.overbey@compaq.net>
Morgantown, WV, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 15:31:18 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.10.93.13)
lito'
I had the chance to read a couple of comments on other sights on
the new Lica and they were not very good. Only one person had anything
good to say about it and he was ranging houses in the neighborhood. Most
of the guys who tested them in the field did "NOT" like them!! The optics
are great but the ranging sucked!! One gentleman did a test against his
800 Nikons and said the Nikons were head and shoulders above the lica in
ranging and was really disappointed because he had expected just the opposit.
Another problem is that the sighting box goes away after you push the range
button so its harder to hold on target esp if its small.Another complaint
was the red numbers are hard to read in sunlight. I don't know how reliable
the info is but there were several reports from different guys and the
stories are about the same. Hope this helps I was looking at them also
I had sold my Bushnell 1000s, now I may wish I had them back.
Mike,
Point taken but I think the potential for danger was definitely
there and having been on a team I would much rather error on the side of
caution for me and my people as I am sure you would.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 15:52:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)
GOOD NEWS for those (like me) who get lost on the way to the shower...
The GPS military "Jitter" is being removed from the Satellite system
this weekend, so those little Garmines, and Magellenes, will give you the
very same (+/- a few feet) accuracy that the military has been enjoying
for decades... about the only thing that C..Cl..Cli Clin... Aw skit, you
know who, has done right, in 7+ years.
Pat... would you send me (by e-mail) the web sites you saw that stuff
about the Leica on...
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 16:19:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.100)
Not only should we honor those who went to any war,... but also
those who battled within themselves when returning home,... and those who
came home but were never the same again.
(Scoot-Dogg) MERCINARY (Cpl.) <marcussuitor@counsellor.com>
- Monday, May 01, 2000 at 16:32:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 212.140.166.2)
Pat (Mr. Bullet): To answer your question (from this armchair quarterback):
What would I do if I had to go into that house?
QED. Quit. I've quit jobs before for things that were less "morally
repugnant" than trashing the 11th circuit court's juristictional authority,
not to mention Florida's state soverignty, and a list of many other things.
I say quit looking at actions, or causes, or opinions. Look at what is
RIGHT by the law, what's constitutional, and what isn't. If you look at
the question "was it a legal action", then how they went in, when, etc
becomes a moot point ;-)
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic formerly know as the, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000
at 17:37:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)
GI Joe - Sent you an email to personnal apoligize, but want to publically
apoligize for the unintended harshness of my reply. Meant it as a question
as whether you were wanting a replacement for military rifle or personal
rifle. Guess it was too late in the evening for my brain to function properly
as possibley could be noted from the rambling on the other part of the
post.
Think I'll go to bed early tonight.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 20:30:23 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.206.212)
Joe(Sparks),
Glad to have the input on the LBT 3 day assault pack article, even
if you feel I gave "A.L.I.C.E. from Hell" a real back burner broiler blast.
I paid more than you, feel I was ripped off, and was under too close
a time window to return the goods, or follow rule #1 of pre-test your equipment.....
Heck it makes me real real warm and fuzzy just knowing SOMEBODY other
than Marius reads the IN REVIEW section. Thanks for the input!
Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
Big City, By-Gawd, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 20:58:52 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.213.201)
Dan Re: Liar Liar.
I don't know who you are refering to with this post but I am glad
it is not me. :-)
Going back thru the archives, I found a couple of posts that I made
on this BDC Stuff. Here is one dated 03/23/99 04:51:49
"I will stand by my data until someone that knows how to read and
count proves me wrong. What I said was that the 175 gr. Sierra at 2600
will track pretty close to this cam. The 175 gr. Sierra at 2675 is not
compatitable. This is not VOO-DOO like barrel vibrations or the
Corolius effect. This is simple math."
It looks from your post, your findings pretty much agree with mine.
In another post, I published a link to a table that I made for the
175 @ 2600 fps in 5 yard increments so one could use it for both yards
and meters. You can find it in the archives 03/23/99 22:00:43
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 21:45:14 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.143.42.46)
Ned, the Dutch V40s are a nice piece of equipment--you can carry
a bunch in a canteen pouch. Problems--you have a tendency to over-throw
your target sometimes. Don't know if they're still in production or not.
There are various new grenades being manufactured as variations on the
theme, including very dense plastic bodies (which don't have the heft or
the range, but definitely have the blast effect). A military break-contact
option if your spotter isn't carrying an M4/203 combo. Carry two or three
in an old M14 web pouch as peace-of-mind insurance if you can afford the
weight.
Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 21:59:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.163.112.159)
I know you guys are busy but..... Could some one e-mail me with
general instructions , on how to break down an M1A1(spring field M14).
I recently aquired one, and it didnt come with any manual. I hate to show
my ignorance, but I'd hate to bend something, that shouldnt be bent. I
dont need the complete how to's for rebarrel, head space and bedding one
of these babies(I wouldnt gripe about it...he he), just some general ifo
please. Keith(sneak)
THANKS!
Sneak from Texas <furflyin@yahoo.com>
tx, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 22:08:02 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.240.158.185)
Lito, I heard that on the news today. Nice to hear I agree. That
takes away one of the concerns to civilians using these things. Now if
they could work out some of the other kinks.
I was wondering if I double ziplocked one of the GPS units if it
would receive signals underwater? I'm a certified diver and was wondering
if these things could be reliable underwater for finding your way back
to a specific reef or terrain feature that you had marked. Till recently
they weren't accurate enough. Now the only worry would be if they can receive
and tolerate a couple atmospheres of pressure.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/library/PressReleases.cgi?date=0&briefing=0
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
cowpatty town, Ca, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 22:37:26 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.165.1.231)
Howdy Folks,
Went and did a bit of shooting this weekend did alright once I found
the paper. That proved to a bit of a chore at first did not give the wind
enough credit until I sent several rounds down the range:) live and learn.
Here's my question does anyone out there have the mil-dot holds
for Federal Gold Medal match ammo in the 175Grain bullet,coming out of
a 24" tube with a 600 yard zero. I tried to figure it myself and think
I have it close but I just want to be sure before I go out to the range
and find out I figured wrong. Also what is the correct way to figure this
out, I spent several hours trying before I did any figureing that seemed
remotely correct. Thanks for any help you can send my way.
Rick, do you ever come to Camp Atterbury, In. to train? When I was
doing my SORT training there I met several Army Snipers when we were at
the range. Just wondering.
Stagger 10-42
Stagger <Lmcpher104@aol.com>
Terre Haute, IN, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 22:38:04 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.213.66)
Stagger - Was there working with the 5th SFG(A) on a six week sniper
course last summer. WE worked there in July, I think, for a week of fun
and games. Campbell didn't have the KD range requirements so we went there
for the long range KD practice. They stayed in the BOQ (I really felt bad
about that) and I stayed in the Hampton Inn. Oh well it is nice to be a
retired army jerk doing work for the gov't. :-)
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 23:01:50 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.207.176)
OK, I hope my last comment on this Miami thing. Pat/Mr.Bullet I
agree if you can justify a threat you go in with more force than you project
will be used agaisnt you. Since you have been on a team I am sure you understand
the use of force as applied in either the tree or pryamid examples. For
those of you that are unaware here is how force can legally be applied
by LE agaisnt offendeds. We start at the bottom with verbal commands. If
verbal does not work you go to hands on control holds, if hands of control
holds dont work we go to either mace or impact weapons, if impact weapons
dont work we go to firearms. Now when we go to firearms we also start with
pitols and work our way up to rifles.
In the application of force we can if needed jump to a higher level.
So we may go straight to a MP5 if we believe you to have a pistol etc.
The sticky point here is we have to justify why we jumped to a lethal force
level. That means I need intel that suggests the principals will resist
with significant force, knives, firearms, bats something that could cause
great bodily harm. I have seen no intel that even suggests the pricipals
in this case would resists with hands let alone weapons, so I see no need
for MP5's agaisnt them. Bottom line is this if that fisherman had resisted
by not letting go of the child would the agent have shot him? No way. What
would the agent do with the MP5 if he had to use control holds? What I
am saing here is you dont need to kill a Butterfly with a tank. This was
a normal LE function not a Hostage Rescue. I have done many Search/Arrest
Warrants and what I saw there was as a High Risk Entry Technique minus
flash bangs and in my mind over kill for a six year old and a family that
had not committed any charged crime. Christ this thing has pay them in
a law suit written all over it.
On take down of the M1A, go down to the local gunshop and have them
show you the first time.
BDC's: If yours works great,, but wait until the temp changes 20
degrees up or down and you will be off. Plus the next batch of 175's will
be faster or slower. I am seeing them go anywhere from 2650-2720 depending
on lot out of my weapons. Currently I am using the BDC for a 180 grain
out of a 30-06 for the BDC in my MK4 M3.
Rick, remember they should stay in the boats.LOL
Litto, I have couple of 50's coming next week. I am going to see
if that Springfield scope will hold up to that. If it will work with that
it will work with most things. I have not had a chance to test it on my
medium sniper rifles yet.
Charles, most of the scopes have been tested just a few more to play
with. Lots of good stuff out there
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 23:03:30 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.188.196.29)
B.Douglas...
Sorry, but they won't work under water. As I recall, they are on
2.4cm wavelength, and that's real short. Many of the civilian GPS units
won't even work well under trees. and the military unit has a huge magnetic
antenna (huge for 2.4cm), so the vehicles can move about under the tree
canopy.
UnDude...
50's... The least you could do, is use your 20mm Lahti ;)
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 23:27:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.28)
Badger Bases and Rings
Does anyone know a good place to buy Badger Bases and Rings. I tried
Premier Recticles and they are out of bases. Are there any other places
to purchase. These are for a Rem 700 PSS SA Right hand. Wanting to buy
also a Leupold 6.5-20x50mm 30mm tube LR Target with mil-dot Matte.THANKS
for any help Doug
Doug <dkb@pcpartner.net>
USA - Monday, May 01, 2000 at 23:31:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.177.19.70)
RE; BRAVO 762, What Is Right, Legal, By The Law. I say to you SIR:
Bravo, Bravo, Bravo.( No malice intended, or judgementalism,) BUT,
when the LAW, doesn't KNOW the LAW, we're in a Helafa mess.
Guy's it's high time some of us wake up. When you ( if you did,)
(not you BRAVO)entered into the service of our country,what was the oath
YOU took?, remember what it said, BRAVO'S POINT and mine.
tshoes <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 00:34:50 (ZULU) (your host address:
152.163.213.181)
OK, I am looking for information on anyone who manufactures a 5R
Barrel. Krieger?, Rocker?, need to know and if possible some way of making
contact with them. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
JKC <unijustice@aol.com>
NC, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 01:03:50 (ZULU) (your host address:
152.163.201.204)
Undude,
Your half inchers should be on the way late next week. Had to go
to Aberdeen PG for some looooong shootin'. Got behind in all my chores
at work. The M82A1 & the M99 are ready, the XM107 will get built up
late this week or early next week. Have a BLAST! Pun very much intended!
Talk at you later.Will call on landline friday evening.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony <50buildr@bellsouth.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 01:26:18 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.214.117.177)
Dave, thanks for the V40 comments. Who's making the new ones from
the "space-age, non-metallic, miracle material" (AKA plastic)? Guess I
need to break out a few bucks and see what Jane's has on the topic.
Ned
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
Kablooey, MI, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 01:26:41 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.89.137.47)
More political stuff... I'll post it as a link for those interested
- this has to do with gun control in Australia...Definitely not topic material
- but worth a quick read.
Read this
Ken
Ken <ken@aspire.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 01:59:01 (ZULU) (your
host address: 4.21.143.4)
'lito,
about the leica, Pat is right on the money. My friend Frank received
his from Premier Reticles last week and it will not range the targets we
want to range past 400 yds. And the small aiming square is annoying. Just
when you're ready to range a small,far target, it disappears.
dan <danr@acnet.net>
Deep South, Texas, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 02:17:47 (ZULU) (your
host address: 170.76.45.79)
We seem to be drifting toward tactics here with the Florida thing,
imagine that, I've noticed that nothing stops a professional 2 time loser
criminal any faster than drawing a weapon. But with people who aren't used
to facing weapons such as non criminals if you pardon the expression..
nothing makes them want to grab their shotgun any faster than a
drawn weapon pointed at them. The best way to spur a Redneck into armed
combat is to draw a weapon especially if he has a 6 pack under his belt.
Best to take that extra 1000th of a second if you have too.
It takes a lot of malice to draw a weapon and shoot a officer that
hasn't drawn a weapon than one that's shuvin it up your nose.
A lot of tactics that seem to make sense in class don't really work
so well in practice unfortunately. I used to make some calls with a officer
who followed that rule pretty close and he scared me to death but I know
there are at least 3 people alive today because of his cool. (at the time
I'd a shot em all) Everytime it came up he would laugh and say, hell, I
knew you were coverin me!
Yeah right!
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 03:21:40 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)
Pablito,
I have a Leica LRF that I received from SWFA. As others have written
earlier, it does have really nice optics, but it seems as if the rangefinding
is a little on the wimpy side. I am not certain what to expect as far as
a $399 eyesafe product is supposed to be, but the longest reading that
I have ever been able to get has been 557 yards. Granted, that was on a
sunny day, but I was trying to get readings off of houses and buildings.
I will bring it along to the ASA class next month in New Mexico and perhaps
I can check it out side by side with other "low" priced range finders.
Michael
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
San Jose, CA, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 04:04:51 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.192.208.6)
Lito, I figured the GPS system wasn't too keen on the idea of going
in an H2O environment given it's track record in thick brushy areas. Personally
I'd love to see a GPS system that can stand up to or was designed for water
envioronments. I would just plain love to get ahold of a amphibious GPS
unit.
The way I look at it what they did today got me one step closer to
getting a GPS unit, now if only some of the other little quirks could be
worked out of them. I don't know if these things are gonna evolve any more
though. If I get one it's still gonna have a backup compass just incase
it goes kaput.
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Cowpie, Ca, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 04:52:48 (ZULU) (your host
address: 209.165.1.185)
Does anyone recall the URL of the website with the long range shooting
"game". When you logged on you took 20 shots at unknown distances with
varying weather conditions. You dialed up wind/elevation and took your
best shot at each target. The target was just a black bullseye placed in
a pasture.
I lost the bookmark or do not remember what it was called.
Thanks,
-Steve
-Steve <slhoenig@mindspring.com>
CA, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 05:23:31 (ZULU) (your host address:
199.174.216.226)
http://www.shooters.com/stewartwilson/longrangeshooting.html
On another note, I recently got to shoot with Stewart Wilson at a
tactical rifle shoot here in Bakersfield Ca. It was a fun match that consisted
of 4 stages where the AR15 ruled the course. I'm gonna be giving him a
call soon enough about that 6.5mm08 AR10 I'm interested in having built.
I've seen what he does with the AR10 and he has some very nice custom touches
he does on these guns. I'm extremely interested in the fact that he uses
top notch barrels, Armalite has let a few turds for barrels out of their
shop in the past.
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Cowpie, Ca, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 06:29:50 (ZULU) (your host
address: 209.165.1.185)
Long range shooting game:
http://www.shooters.com/stewartwilson/rangegame.html
or click here
Brian <bolt_308@yahoo.com>
OR, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 06:34:06 (ZULU) (your host address:
216.36.35.69)
Steve, if you didn't figure it out that link is for you.
I got so caught up seeing that this guy does custom chamberings for
the AR10 and not to mention the fact that I have met this fellow that I
almost wet myself. What's more is he's in my state and close by.
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Cowpie, Ca, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 06:35:06 (ZULU) (your host
address: 209.165.1.185)
Rick
------
.........never mind.That's OK.
G.I.Joe <ggijoe@hotmail.com>
Italy - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 09:15:05 (ZULU) (your host address:
151.2.122.249)
My take on the commercial laser range finders is that the Swarovski's
are the superior ones. I used a RF-1 for a couple of years and it was a
consistent performer on all types of surfaces. MOre so than the Leica's.
It was around 2 grand but it was worth it (considering the US Govt was
paying for it).
http://www.swarovskioptik.com/nf/us/start.htm
On the Cuba thing...Just another example of the lack of respect for
our rights by the Clinton regime. It may have been "legal" but was it right?
"Right" doesn't come into the picture with Wild Bill.
Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 10:13:00 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.17.166)
Mike,
I agree but it seems the "Grunts" always get the shitty end of the
stick. Like Bravo says, "Just quit", but its not always that easy, is it??
I was just sticking up for the "Grunt" who was trying to do his job as
best he could with out getting hurt or hurting anyone else, and I don't
want to hear "Yea, well so were the Nazis" its not the same and if it gets
that way I will be the first to stand up against it.
I don't even know why were fighting over this kid in the first place
and could care less. I am sure there are a thousnad kids here in the states
that could use the attention and the money that this is getting and costing
the tax payers. I would much rather see us take care of some of our own
poor and abused kids than spend a penny on him, it was just my opinion
and enough said.
lito,
I will send you the address of those sights I prowl around but they
were posted a week or so ago so you may have to do some back tracking.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 12:27:54 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.130)
I have recently purchased a Rem. 700 .308 Tactical Police and it
is solid black. I have a Springfield Armory black scope and a black Harris
bipod on it. Most of my shooting is in the desert where i need a brown
with green patches camo patern. Any recomemdations or procedures on painting
it. All help appreciated.
Jimmy Smith <jll03@tamu.edu>
TX, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 18:13:54 (ZULU) (your host address:
128.194.72.159)
Jimmy, how 'bout maroon, with "UT sucks" in white? Or, sure, tan
and green, why not? An Aggie joke thread would be a nice break from Elian.
Jim <broonsma@prodigy.net>
PDX, Or, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 18:45:54 (ZULU) (your host
address: 63.255.9.41)
Jim,
Better watch out, there are a lot of Aggies lurking around. I spent
7 long years there.
Has anyone tried the Aguila SSS round? There was an interesting write
up on it in this month's Tactical Shooter. I have heard that the bullet
won't stabilize in the 1-14 or 1-16 twist found in most .22LR. What about
an AR conversion? My AR has a 1/9 twist but I do not have any experience
with the 22 conversion units.
The Shooter <kkonen@usa.net>
God bless TX, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 19:58:08 (ZULU) (your
host address: 208.180.4.190)
Saluting my older brothers who are veterans, on the 25th anniversary
of the Fall or Saigon:
Vinh, downtown Saigon: "We loved the Americans. They came to help
us. After they left in April, our city was shelled for three days. We hid
in the basement, and didn't dare go outside. The communist army moved into
the city, killing children and the elderly as they went through. It was
horrible. Days afterward, they outlawed activities like public dancing,
and turned society upside down."
Hue, living in almost the closest residence to the airport: "After
the Americans left, there were piles of rifles left behind outside my house
in the streets. Piles higher than a man, hundreds, thousands of M16 rifles.
You could pick one up, pull the trigger, and thk-thk-thk-thk-thk-thk-thk!
It was crazy!"
C.Ross <tplife@tns.net>
San Diego, CA, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 20:18:06 (ZULU) (your
host address: 198.182.177.3)
Augila 60 gr. .22lr loads:
A friend of mine shot a goodly number of them through his 18 1/2"
Ruger 10/22 the other day. He reports good accruracy on the horizontal
axis but a lot of dispersion verticaly. To be more specific, it shot a
group about 1/2" wide and 1.5" verticaly at 35 yards. Chronograph data
revealed considerable variance in velocity from shot to shot, with an extreem
spread of almost 100 fps, which may well account for the vertical stringing.
Weighing a sample of the cartriges found that they varied pretty badly,
with about %60 clustering tightly around one weight the rest falling into
two loose groups that ran considerably lighter. The next step will be to
test weight segregated ammo and see if that makes a difference ( we suspect
it will). Reliablity of feed, extreaction and ejection was flawless, function
brisk. Why TS chose to test them in so specialized an arm is beyond me.
My buddy was a bit dissapointed but still has hope that they will prove
useful.
-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 20:53:11 (ZULU) (your
host address: 129.252.167.152)
i just got off the gte intranet and was messing around in technology
area and found where gte/bbn tech is in a joint venture creating antisniper
technology using a parabolic dish it uses reverse echolocation to target
the sniper after he shoots the guy reporting
this said it works so well that it can even distinguish differant
calibers very accuratly! even at 1000 yards! sell so much for laying
still after from now on you better shoot & skoot!
zeroburn
zeroburn <zeroburn@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 22:59:49 (ZULU) (your host address:
172.140.77.224)
Jim (Broonsma): The shooter is right. Lots of Ag's lurk here, and
some of us used to give Rudder's Ranger's a bad time! Where you think I
picked up such an affinity for the M-14? Don't expose your self, no Ag
would ever paint "UT SUCKS" on his rifle. Possibly "TU SUCKS". ;-) You
wanna hear an Ag joke, I got your Ag joke! Besides, who you think REALLY
does the USMC silent drill team in the movies / TV?
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic formerly known as, USA - Tuesday, May 02, 2000
at 23:22:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.251)
Zeroburn, saw the same show, dadgumdist contraption that I have
ever witnessed. The thing tracks the boolet soon as it leaves the muzzle.
Tracks speed, trajectory and can give caliber. They are trying to tie it
to all sorts of antisniper goodies. Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, do I really still wantabe
a wannabee? Makes one wonder!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 00:18:22 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.138.187.223)
That doppler radar is something else! Did the show feature the minigun
it can interface with to hose the area the shot originated from? Not one
of lifes more pleasurable experiences to witness, unless you're the hoser,
not the hosee! The radar can give the origination point of the shot before
the bullet can travel I think 600-700m. Not to good a trade off, 1 rd vs
5000 incoming.
Tony <50buildr@bellsouth.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 00:33:07 (ZULU)
(your host address: 209.214.118.79)
I've heard of 5th year seniors, but 7 years? Even for Aggieland?
Graduating with your class or with your buddies takes on new dimensions!
Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 01:51:28 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.163.112.159)
All you college ring knockers can eat me!
Lets hear it for MCRDU at San Diego and it's sister school MCRDU
at PI! Didn't get no ring there just an eagle, globe and anchor.
(That should start a cool, totally non-shooting thread huh?)
Gooch dives for cover!!!
Out
Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 03:06:18 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.17.171)
Well I found out last week not to shoot a 50NM course w/ a M4. (who
knew the 14.5" would be a hinderance) Keep laughing Dave
Is there any sight with the NM rules so I don't look like such an
idiot next time I mosey on south?
Saw a neat laser (Teleranger) in a gunshop on the way to the shoot,
but it was to pricey for a used unit and no mount attachment for a tripod.
I am still looking for a new spotter/observer scope to replace an
aging once issued spacemaster (hey it still works)- anyone know of one
that has a built in laser?
Has anyone been able to find a way of etching mildots into a lens
so they multiply with the magnification in a variable zoom? (so your mils
stay the same)
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 03:06:41 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.148.142.170)
Semper Fi Sgt. Gooch
" Among all the honors, among all the postings, Promotions, Medals
that have been awarded me, the one in which I take most pride is to be
able to say - " I am a Marine."
Gen. John a. Lejune, USMC
13th commandant
Forget ducking for cover Gooch, call in the fast movers!
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , ny, USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 03:39:00 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.145)
Kevin, in regards to you post concerning etching a mil dot reticle
in a fixed power spotting scope,
I think that the reticle has to be placed in the rear lens of the
scope. Give US optics a call, they add a glass etched reticle on to the
MK4 scopes along with changing the power, they could probably answer that
for ya'
Kush out
k <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , ny, USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 03:44:49 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.145)
On that dopler thing. I wonder how well it would track is the first
round was aimed at it? Could it still tell the caliber? Just a thought....
SCS <raven1@anv.net>
Sin City, USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 04:15:17 (ZULU) (your host
address: 207.168.181.12)
Can anyone tell me who manufactures the Army's M-24 SWS deployment
case? If you can supply the companys' contact information (phone and/or
address) as well that would be great.
Thanks!!
M.K.
M. Kessler <mkessler@altavista.net>
USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 05:24:32 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.17.58.22)
On th' M24 case. ah reckon th' compenny's name is "Starlight" o'
sumpin outta No'th Carolina.
Jeeze guys. Yo' college fellaz kin hammer on etch other an' one of
us unwarshed types chimes in an' gits a hard time via varmintal email,
ah reckon. Lighten up please! Mah feeble, unejoocayted brain kin't han'le
it. Out hyar.
Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 10:47:06 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.17.168)
Well you'all see it's like this...Mista Gooch has been up in them
thar hills toooo long and has gotten use to two things...no female company
(as banjos play the theme from Deliverence in the background)and dhem ther
corn squeezins! Fact rumor has it he's developin a new bore cleaner, rust
remover and hooch all in one from them squeezins! Hell he's got to have
SUMTON to do out ther!!! :-)
Sarge
Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 11:59:22 (ZULU) (your
host address: 206.245.243.87)
I have purchased a 3rd generation springfield armory scope. This
scope is tuned to (.308) 168 grain match loads, the loads that I my rifle
shoots the best are 165 NBT. Does anyone have any opinion how this will
affect my shots at long range ( 450-600 yards ). Any insight and opnions
on Springfield scopes would be welcomed.
Patrick Berriman <patrick@unitedvalve.com>
houston, texas, USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 13:56:55 (ZULU) (your
host address: 199.174.7.184)
Doppler Radar Sniper Killers - We worked with them a couple of years
ago and they work when the little midget is inside the box making the wheels
go round. There are too many bugs right now in the system and there are
several systems out there witht he French system probably working the best
right now. It is similar to another little item that tells the shooter
what to hold for range and elevation by reading the laser and laser scatter
off of the air particles for wind calls. It only works when there are wind
sensors every 50 meters down range. The dam thing gave us a quarter mil
hold WITH the wind on a test run at Bragg. Our Call was 1 and a quarter
mils. Any guess on which round hit?
Gooch you leave yourself open! As an army man I must ask, "Why can't
you call a Marine a Jarhead?" Because a jar denotes a useful item that
you can use by putting something inside. Uh Oh, me thinks that should get
some dander up. :-)
Running for cover at this time. And I gave Gooch my dam coordinates.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 14:26:13 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.207.187)
All: Looking for a commercial source for the targets used by the
Marine Corps for KD qualification with the M-16A2 and 9mm. Any ideas Gooch?
Jon Custis <custisja@navair.navy.mil>
Orlando, FL, USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 15:08:36 (ZULU) (your
host address: 192.44.253.14)
There sure are a bunch of Aggies running around here. Add another
one to the list (if ya'll can count that high). Four and 1/2 years in God's
Country before coming up here to freeze my cajones off.
Microphone systems for detecting gunshots are fairly simple. I saw
a year or two ago where some neighborhoods in California (big surprise)
were getting wired with a simple microphone net on a (I think) 1/4 mile
or 1/2 mile grid. By simply timing when the noise reaches succesive microphones
and some simple trig (cosine! cosine!), the position of the shooter is
located to within ten or twenty yards.
Also, the noise signature of each caliber is slightly different,
so some computerized matching may be possible. This would only work with
handguns and widely differing rifles - you can hear the difference between
a 45 and 9mm and a 7.62 and 5.56mm, but not the difference between an '06
and 308.
What do you call an Aggie five years after graduation? Boss!
Karl
Karl <dahm0030@tc.umn.edu>
Damn Cold, Mn, USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 16:02:04 (ZULU) (your
host address: 134.84.148.151)
Radar Etc.
Just like counter battery radars these systems are active - so when
you detect them just drop a couple of 81mm 's and the problem goes away
(or your S/O takes it out while you do the TGT). The CF Coyote (4 million$
fancy LAV) has the same deal for radar and a neat laser detector so if
some shmuck lazes it, the main gun spins and locks on the laser - but all
it is, is a BIG TGT
Really thought don't you think these tools are getting silly! -lasers,gps
etc. are just an excuse not to do the work yourself they make YOU LAZY!
and our good friend Murphy likes that!!! Call me a luddite but I still
swear by a map and compass, and use my mil-dots to range. IF you have the
rest use them as a back up ONE YOU'VE DONE IT MANUALLY!!!!! Humans make
errors sure as SH*T but Do You Really Want To TRUST YOUR LIFE TO A MACHINE!!!
KISS - KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - True North formerly Strong and Free - but that was offensive
to some - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 16:41:27 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.148.134.3)
Suprised to see many Ags lurking on this website. Add another to
list. You'll need another hand to count us with now!
Shooter:
AR conversion with the Aguila SSS round sounds like a good idea.
But if you are looking for true subsonic ammo might try their new Colibri
line. Supposed to be 20 grains and a muzzle velocity of only 375 fps.
Most decent pellet rifles fire faster than that.
Just a thought.
Jon <bigbadjon@tamu.edu>
Aggieland, God Bless TX, USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 20:14:13
(ZULU) (your host address: 128.194.52.223)
Shooter, Re AR's and Aguila .22 rimfires:
In three AR 15 clones (1:9 twists) in my clan, each with a conversion
kit, all FUNCTION with just about any 22LR (36-40 grain) ammunition, but
accuracy is pretty unimpressive. Good enough for beer cans (empty) but
not what we get from just about any other rimfire rifle. The bores on the
CF are a few thousandths oversize--I forget the actuals. The 60 grainers
might upset to fill the bore better or maybe the short slugs are overspinning.
Would be interesting to test both side by side. If I see the Augies (Not
AGGIES!!!)available, I will shoot a few for comparison. Are these readily
available now?
Paul <paul_f_mickey@ameren.com>
Spfld, IL, USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 21:07:07 (ZULU) (your host
address: 198.51.215.235)
USMC targets are made by the National Target Company. I ain't got
no address. Anyone else?
Gooch
Class of '77
MCRDSD
Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, May 03, 2000 at 22:14:29 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.17.139)
April's Precision Shooting has an article of interest. Remington
Sendero @ 1000 yds. www.precisionshooting.com click on April. Lots of pretty
pictures for the unwashed. Well, not lots, but some.
Jimmy @ TAMU. Did you get any straight answers on stock painting?
Jim <broonsma@prodigy.net>
PDX, Or., USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 00:02:47 (ZULU) (your host
address: 63.255.10.85)
Waco, Ruby Ridge, Miami, ...
Jarhead...!? I'm part of the 'Parent' company, my BROTHER's a JarHead...
How can you tell if an Aggie's been using your pc...? "White-out"
all over the screen...
Nope, nothing new, just SOS.
Larry
Larry (USN) Porter <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 01:39:23
(ZULU) (your host address: 216.167.136.124)
So I'm perusing the Emporium and I see the Starline cases on sale.
I immediately set about telling(beg-beg,plead,whimper) my better-half that
I will be ordering one of these fabled cases. So she says ok! It's gonna
be for Father's Day!!! Then she proceeds to tell me what she wants for
Mother's Day...
Sound familiar? HAH!
Spud,
Semper-Fi,
Out
PS Will see you Mudville soggys on Sun!
Dennis <usmcspud@mindspring.com>
merced, Kalisocialistfornia, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 02:53:14
(ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.220.85)
Here's my dilemma:
New daughter is going through clothes so fast that I'm tapping into
my "guns and gear budget" (BIG OLE GULP). So, before It evaporates completely,
I have been needing to do some tweaks to my Rem. There is a smith up here
by the name of Arnold Arms (based in Arlington, WA). Has anyone, particularly
those from the NW, dealt with or have tested their products? We have a
couple of smiths in the Seattle Metro I could go to for the work but their
turn-around time is 4-6 months (past the one month of dry season around
here). Arnold promises a faster turn-around with the Rem.
Any advice greatly appreciated. As for the new one, ah well, at least
I am getting some range time again!
Thanks all!
Morris
Morris <mparrish@oz.net>
Seattle Metro, WA, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 02:55:15 (ZULU)
(your host address: 216.39.130.53)
my shooting club is holding a 50 bmg fun shoot May 19-20-21 near
DIA in Colorado. We have a dozen cars, 100 butane tanks and assorted other
stuff to blow up. There will be a full auto 50, a 20MM and assorted mortars.
Vets welcome, camping, food etc aailable. 303-377-0034
wildlife hunters assoc of co (WHAC)
mark mason <whacemason@usa.net>
aurora, co, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 03:01:48 (ZULU) (your host
address: 209.245.13.69)
A quick point of interest on bullet tracking, microphone DF'ing
etc.
The British Army use a marksmanship training system operating along
similar lines (microphones though, not radar). The microphones are situated
in a baseline along the butts (fixed targets only, no ETR's or movers),
and detect fall of shot - even if you miss the target itself. There is
also a remote monitor you can take out onto the firing point with a screen
to show you your POI. I use the system fairly regularly out to 600, and
it seems to work well.
Dom
Dom <LethbridgeDP@cf.ac.uk>
Cardiff, UK - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 07:39:40 (ZULU) (your host
address: 131.251.0.8)
Just picked up a 9" twist .223 PSS, since I heard that Big Green
will no longer ship except for Police Sales. Odd. To my way of thinking,
the Police are civilians, too. Oh, well. I was planning on a .308 to approximate
that newfangled M-24 I wanted to try out, but I couldn't find a .308 (locally).
When I was on the MTU back in the "Dim Ages," we taught M-21's, but the
NCOIC said they weren't up to the old bolt- guns he sniped with as a kid
in Viet Nam. I do know that we were always tearing the stuff we had down
for rebuilds. So, I figured I'd get a bolt-gun and see what all the shouting
was about. Now I'm having second thoughts about this .223 business: I hoped
I'd be able to get good results with the 68 gr. BTHP loads, but I don't
see anyone talking about them in this forum. Any experiences / observations?
SFC(R) Earl <kettlebelly@hotmail.com>
Kansas City, Mo., USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 12:19:09 (ZULU) (your
host address: 134.32.107.226)
Off topic alert:
All - don't open any email messages with the text "I LOVE YOU" in
the heading. There is a world-wide email virus currently in circulation....
even if the mail is from someone that you know. That person's computer
might be infected - which means that if they use address books- the virus
will replicate itself using their address book - which will make the message
look familiar to you...
The trick is to simply DO NOT OPEN THE ATTACHMENT. That is where
the malicious code is present. Just simply delete the message.
Sorry for the off-topic post - but - man some F***G A***LE is at
it again....
ken :)
Ken <ken@aspire.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 14:42:08 (ZULU) (your
host address: 4.3.240.234)
re: "Has anyone, particularly those from the NW, dealt with or have
tested their products? We have a couple
of smiths in the Seattle Metro I could go to for the work but their
turn-around time is 4-6 months (past the one month of dry season
around here). Arnold promises a faster turn-around with the Rem."
I know of a couple of smiths in the Seattle area who perform "follow-on"
work on rifles modified by Arnold Arms. I personally have no experience
with Arnold but "buyer beware." You might check Jim Cloward (206) 632-2072.
I've always experienced quick turnaround and of course excellent work.
Curious George <cg@ibm.net>
Emerald City, WA, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 17:53:07 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.13.226.13)
Uhoh guys, from the headlines at TheWashingtonPost.com,
"Navy SEAL Charged With Munitions Theft"
Forgive me for not knowing how to do an in text url link, do a cut
and paste or click on my name to go to the link.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59455-2000May3.html
B.
Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
RoadApple, Ca, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 18:31:21 (ZULU) (your
host address: 136.168.216.69)
Have been unable to locate info on or place to purchase a "D.D.
Ross" trigger guard assembly for Remington 700 SA.
Also would like to hear from someone using MWG base & rings
in reference to repeatability of zero. I intend to use both a SS10X42 Tasco
for long range shooting and my 1.75X6 B&L for deer hunting.
Thanks
Bill Moore <lmalterna@aol.com>
Goodview, Va, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 18:43:12 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.216.40.3)
All:
For anyone who may be interested, I was able to track down the info
on the National Target Company. The address is: 4690 Wyaconda Road, Rockville,
MN 20847-2152 1-800-827-7060 or 301-770-7060
Jon A. Custis <custisja@navair.navy.mil>
Orlando, FL, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 18:52:49 (ZULU) (your
host address: 192.44.253.14)
Rick on flash hiders;
I know I am late getting to this one but on 05/01 you made the statement
that a flash hider was worse than no flash hider. I don't claim to be an
expert but I think you are wrong with that statement. You say it is easier
to see the flash signature with the flash hider with night vision and I
have a hard time with that. Without the flash hider it would be much easier
to see with or without night vision as the flash would be large. You say
that the flash hider blows stuff around during the day more so than a std.
barrel. Wrong a proper flash hider will reduce the dust signature to almost
nothing and blow stuff around less as there is a lot less pressure and
it spread over a longer time period than a std. barrel.
Just my two cents worth.
Jerry
Jerry
Rice <nor-cal@worldnet.att.net>
American Canyon, CA, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 20:48:20 (ZULU)
(your host address: 12.72.5.111)
Bill Moore - DD Ross trigger guard:
Try Iron Brigade Armory - http://www.ironbrigadearmory.com
Ken
Ken <ken@aspire.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 21:02:35 (ZULU) (your
host address: 4.3.240.234)
Jerry - The greater day signature was meant as a reference for the
muzzel breaks which creat one hell of a blast pattern. The day signature
is signaficant, and greater than the unregulated muzzel blast. Now, for
the flash suppresser/hider. We tested several in the 80s in preperation
of standards for the M24. We found that the visible light at the shooter
was greater whithout the flash hider but rapidly disappeared to almost
non existant at 100 meters and beyond. With the NVDs the flash was so rapid
that is you were not looking for it you would miss it. However, with the
flash hider converting the visible flash to a huge donut of heat the NVD
saw it very plainly and was easy to locate the weapon. These tests were
done at ranges of 100 to 1000 meters at every 100 meters. At 100, yes it
was a trade off, although that huge donut of light is something to see.
Beyond that it was not even close and by 600, the unregulated muzzel flash
use was a pin prick of light while the flashhider appeared to be a 3-4
foot ball of flame. Remember, that disappaiting energy comes at a cost.
Even the flashider in foliage will disrupt the foliage over a greater area
due to the fanning out of the gasses. This will creat a significant signature
when viewed from a distance. Granted this requires the observer to be looking
directly at the weapon when it fires. But then again it requires the viewer
to be looking directly at the weapon for the flash hider to be effective.
We shoot at night every course and the unregulated muzzel flash is not
a problem for the shooter or observer, thus that end of the equation is
also not a problem. I will stand by my statements as they are from test
data performed on the range. That is why the flash hider was not part of
the test critiria for the M24. I was directly involved in that project
from start on the Special Operations side of the house. I know that it
does not make sense that a flash hider does more damage than good, but
it seems that many things in shooting is all FM!
Dam Gooch no come back on the jarhead thingy or did you just consider
the source?
Anyone want an Aggie anti-tank bayonet? Only used once.
Someone has to bite!
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 22:03:11 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.207.178)
I have got to learn how to spell!
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Oppps, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 22:04:37 (ZULU) (your host address:
152.163.207.178)
Need some help in locating GI cleaning patches 2 1/2" square fuzzy
ones.Tired of cuttin up my underwear or paying $5.oo per hundred.
Thanks Steve
Steve <Dzuppi@aol.com>
Wayne, NJ, USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 22:26:24 (ZULU) (your host
address: 152.163.206.191)
.17 Remington,
Thinking of having one made up to run the Berger Moly 37gr VLD bullets,thru
a 1-6 twist barrel,anyone one have experience with this, good or bad?
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
New Zealand - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 23:25:21 (ZULU) (your host
address: 203.97.45.207)
BREAK IN HELP NEEDED
Just received my new REM 700 PSS in 308. Need help on what is the
best break-in proceedure to use. Will be shooting FED 308 match ammo 168gr.
Also need which materials I should use to do this right. THANKS for any
help Doug
Doug <dkb@pcpartner.net >
USA - Thursday, May 04, 2000 at 23:39:37 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.177.19.64)
Steve - cleaning patches:
In the book titled "Dead On" they use paper towels torn to the size
required - instead of cloth patches.
Haven't tried this myself - but if you think about it - it might
be a decent idea. Some paper towel types are reasonably strong.
Ken :)
Ken <ken@aspire.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 01:20:26 (ZULU) (your
host address: 4.21.143.4)
Has anyone tried the new Timney trigger for the Savage rifles?
Does anybody have an opinion about them?
Thanks Ron
Ron <M308SAV@aol.com>
Tulsa, OK, USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 01:42:29 (ZULU) (your host
address: 152.163.204.17)
THe National Target Co is in Maryland (MD) not Minnesota (MN).
I concur with Sir Boucher on the flash hiders. Without anything on
the muzzle, the blast tends to go straight forward, spreading out as you
go. The flash suppressor launches the blast at various directions at about
90 deg from the bore (depending on the design). The problem with this is
that as a sniper I can deal with the straight ahead blast better than the
lateral/longitudinal (can I use those words here?) blasts that a muzzle
break/flash suppressor launches. A perfect example is the blast pattern
set off by most .50's. Stick the barrel into a bush so that the muzzle
is flush with the opposite side of the bush. Fire a round with the break
on. You have just defoliated the bush. Take the brake off and do the same
thing in another bush. After you have the buttstock surgically removed
from your shoulder you will notice that the bush is largley undesturbed
except for veg knocked loose from the concussion.
I have observed live fire from the receiving end from 7.62 at around
300 yards from a 26" non-flash suppresed barrel and there is little or
no flash visible. Same thing from the side. There is a small blue flame
from most sane 7.62 loads.
Most snipers that I know don't want the flash supressor for the blast
problem moreso than the flash issue.
Barrel break in!! We just beat this horse to death a coupe of weeks
ago. Based on personal exp and opinions of some others who know more than
I do, I'm of the belief that none is required for most factory/custom rifles
with anything other than a made in Tijuana barrel.
Out
Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 01:44:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.167)
Reasons FOR a flash hider:
1. If I don't have it, there's nothing to mount the front sight
on, and the threads and splines on the barrel would get dinged.
2. And mounting a bayonet (anti tank or other) ;-) would be out.
3. I would have nothing to put the Sinclair guide up to when I shove
the cleaning rod down the muzzle except the clean crown - OH NO!
4. Sometimes I LIKE the overwhelming urge to knock over a local
State liquor store with a heavy competition rifle (which is derived from
the bayo lug AND flash hider, as explained to me by the liberal press).
5. It keeps me from living any place that starts with "the peoples
republic of".
Just the thoughts of a HAPPY, and legal, preban M1A owner!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic formerly known as the, USA - Friday, May 05, 2000
at 03:21:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.216)
Kent & Rick - What about Jerry's Nighthawk Suppressor/Hider
?
Agreed that most are more of a pain than worth, but his looks very
promising. If mine ever gets done the EDM work I intend to try it at night
with some observers using NV.
Dave etc. Someone ask Recon Econ when the liberation is? where getting
frustrated up here! LOL :)
You can get further with a kind word and a gun, than just a kind
word - Al Capone
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 04:49:21 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.148.142.109)
To Dan & Gooch, Re: Barrel Break in
Sorry to inform you that that horse is alive and well. There is
a good article in one of the precision shooting magazines, I think it was
April issue. you can read it by going to
www.precisionshooting.com
It has the respected opinions of such men as
Harold Vaughn
Jim Borden
Dan Lilja
Kevin Thomas
The comments of Kevin Thomas are especially worth reading as he is
a genuine DATP. (just like me!)
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 09:25:24 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.212.148.194)
Master Rick & Mista Gooch,
Nice logical commentary on the flash hider/muzzle brake issue from
the downrange perspective, no less! I take it that the cartridges used
were military type rounds with the flash suppressant additives to the powder?
How does the OEM civvie stuff like Federal, Remington, W-W, compare
to it?
Jerry Rice{the gunsmith one},
Maybe you and Mikey (Un-Dude) could get some night pix of the Nighthawk
and OEM flashes with say Federal .308 and .300WM and it could be posted
on S/C?
My 100 cents on the radar/microphone thang- If you have been doing
your job, pre-op setting up and observing, wouldn't you either pop'em (or
that fancy equipment) during their set up, or simply vanish into the undergrowth
like Sarge will be doing when Mrs. Sarge finds out about his new scope.............
;-)
peteR ducks back into the Spiderhole awaiting Incoming
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 10:59:55 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.201.193)
Mista Gooch,
I rank you right up there with lito' and Rick as the "Most learned
ones" but I have to diasgree with your comment on barrel brake in. I, like
you, used to just shoot em an not worry about all the fancy break in stuff
that I figured were for prissy benchrest shooters (No offence ment) but
after doing it to a couple of factory rifles I could not believe how much
difference it did make. I can't say it made them more accurate but it sure
made them a hell of a lot easier to clean up!!! As I have gotten older
and wiser(I hope) I now take a lot better care in my cleaning process and
when you have one that cleans up in half the time it really does make it
nice. One could argue that maybe that factory barrel was just smoother
but after doing at least five of them in the last 3 to 4 years and have
them all turn out the same, I AM A BELIEVER!! Just my thoughts on it anyway,
by the way did you notice I never made any Marine jokes?? Aren't you proud
of my restraint!!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 12:27:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)
TO: Mark Mason
I'm signed up for the 50 bmg fun shoot May near DIA and am really
looking forward to it. See you there with my M82A1!
AM
Animal Mother <stude59@uswest.net>
USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 12:33:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 162.18.75.75)
bullet seating depth:
i found a pretty good load for my .308. i was using some generic
168gr BTHPs i found in a bag at a gun show. i set them in freshly trimmed
cases (2.01")on top of 44gr of Varget(not an overly HOT load) to an OAL
of 2.8". i did get two sub-1/2 min groups, i expect the rest of my groups
to do this with practice.
-yes, i still flinch, when i don't control it
anyway, i ran out of bullets and bought the only box of 30cal 168
gr BTHPs my dealer had, S(s?)peer gold mathces. they're .032" shorter than
the other bag i had. the "generic" bulletes measure 1.232"- sound like
anything anyone's ever shot?
so, to load closest to what i was shooting monday do i seat for
a shorter OAL or do i maintain OAL and increase case capacity? my OAL is
arbitrarily based on a few different Remington factory rounds. my seating
die isn't mic.ed so the only way i have to figure seating depth is to subtract
my OAL from the combined length of the bullet and case.
how does one find the best OAL for their chamber?
strung out and dis-jointedly yours
kg
kg <drkg@bright.net>
USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 14:50:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.118.72)
kg,
You can probably run them out to an overall length of 2.825", ( with
a factory Remington chamber. The powder charge that you are using can also
be very effective with the Sierra 155gr Palma and 175gr Match Kings.
Praise be to Varget!!!
Chao
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 15:46:00 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.201.191)
I have a question for those for more knowlegde than myself. I just
bought a RUM 300. I am goingto use the gun on mulies & elk. I also
hunt whitetails here at home & was curious if i could devolop a load
for the 300 RUM that would make it act for like a hopped up 30-06 to use
for whitetails. I am just learning to reload & any help i would be
grateful for. thanks guys!
Max <maxrowe@vaix.net>
Buena Vista, VA, USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 15:52:35 (ZULU) (your
host address: 198.176.41.2)
Max,
The .300RUM is a LARGE cartridge and needs LOTSA powder to run smoothly.
If you drop powder charges down, the powder column inside the cartridge
is going to get "funkified" and you probably will end up with erratic velocities.
You will see QUITE a bit more on this particular subject later, TRUST
ME..............
Cha(Ouch)
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
Big Cannon coming City, By-Gawd, USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 16:34:00
(ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.184)
I currently shoot a Remington 700 PSS .308 and was wondering about
getting a magnum. Does anyone have thougts on any of these round and what
rifle did you use?
.300 Win Mag
.300 Ultra Mag
.338 Ultra Mag
.338 Lapua
Thanks for any info.
m. smiley <mysmiley@sirius.com>
USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 18:38:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.134.241.55)
Looking for any input on Armalite AR 10 T carbine in .308. Will
this 16" barrel give me 1.5 out of the box at 100 meters like they claim.
Thanks for the help.
Ray <ray480@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 19:00:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.111.24.217)
Just for my own education. Does the militay have (as part of it's
curriculum for snipers)visual range estimation. I was wondering if it was
still taught as a back up the current technology available. If so what
sort of method is used (beyond the practice, practice and more practice).
Muzzle <rpowers@wickenburg.k12.az.us>
Wickenburg, az, USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 21:17:52 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.218.16.185)
Low Signature Devices (Flash hiders),
The best LSD is of course a suppressor,if they are hard to get(restricted)
the suppressor with ports in the outer casing like the one Jerry Rice makes,would
be the logical way to go.Or use a layer of bush between you and the target,NZ
snipers were told to use 2 layers,however as they had to shoot at night
during course,and did not want to get caught by instructors,they decided
to bump it up to 3 layers that they would cut a shooting hole in to insure
no firing signature.
Just as an aside,a while ago shot a .308 w/suppressor just after
last light,from 6 feet to the side all I could see was a small 1 inche
blue flame,pulled the can of and shot again very large fire ball,however
this was at close range and from a short 19 inche barrel,not very scientific.
Chris
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
New Zealand - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 22:33:58 (ZULU) (your host address:
203.97.45.199)
Well, Got the poop on the 2000 Sniper Rendezvous today. Lord willing
and the creek don't rise (and daughter/college doesn't such the finance
well dry) i may actually make it this year.
Ghillie monster suit is ordered from the guy in FayetteNam. Will
do a review of it when it comes next week. If it is good as the one he
had at the weapons of mass destruction show last year, it will be nice.
Sign up now dudes, the sheepies are a waiting.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 23:28:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.191.207)
Anyone know how, or if it is even feasible, to lighten the trigger
pull on a HK91?
Thanks,
Steve
Steve Starksspear <starksspear@plateautel.net>
NM, USA - Friday, May 05, 2000 at 23:47:00 (ZULU) (your host address:
216.167.164.191)
Muzzle,
In regard to visual range estimation, you have the mil-dot ranging
system that has been that is a good optics based method. For Arty &
Mortars, you can grab a compass, a map and a calculator and use parallax.
Or you can eyeball it, but that takes practice, practice, practice!
Semper Fi
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , ny, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 00:41:44 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.73)
I should stay out of this but just for opinion's sake....
IF you have a new barrel it should be cleaned fairly often but the
better the barrel the less important that is. Just to keep anything from
shaving off and getting abrasive in the barrel it's a good idea to clean
every 5 or ten shots. I guess you can call that breaking it in if that
suits the purpose of discussion but good barrels are pretty well lapped
and smoothed to begin with. IF you have a barrel you are breaking in and
it improves with shooting it really doesn't have to mean that "breaking
it in" correctly is what's making it happen. Just about any rifle shoots
better after about 200 rounds.
You tend to think your "breaking in procedure" is doing it but usually
it's just that bullet going mach 3 out of that barrel that's cleaning
it up in my humble opinion. It makes for a lot of questions on SC but
in the long run. Just clean it up pretty good as you go and don't
let big stuff clog up the works. One thing for sure it'll either get better
or worse. After you do a couple hundred or more you wonder if it makes
a damn! Or at least that's what strikes me. These so called precision shooters
do a lot of things that aren't prudent for tactical situations or the weapons
that are used to fight with. It's an art and a science but it's about as
important as the wax on a race car to the speed down the track! It matters
but not much!
Flash Hiders;
You know if flash is a problem you can do a hell of a lot with choice
of powder and barrel length. In some cases more than you can with hiders,
suppressors and the like. But don't get me wrong they have their place
too and they work! But do pay attention to the powder charge and type of
powder as a function of flash.
I've not used NV in testing for flash but I will. Since it's long
wave stuff it sure might be different than visable light. Interesting point
you raise.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 01:57:34 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)
Flash hiders/Muzzle breaks - I have never used or been on the down
range end of Jerry Rice's Flash hider. All I can say is that with every
flash hider we tried that used the side dispersion of gases gave a tremendous
heat donut that showed up on the NVDs. Was it VISIBLE light, no. It was
a heat signature that created the huge donut. Being in the military that
is as bad as visible light.
Pete - Have not done a check with the civie stuff. The problem is
really a heat signature problem that causes the flare with the military
stuff. I would imagine that the civie stuff would be worse, but that is
a wild a**ed guess and NOT an educated statement.
Kevin - I would love to have Mike get Jerry's stuff and shoot it
from the down range perspective, both for visual and heat signature.
A couple of other clarifications, possibly. The M14/M1A has a muzzle
break not a flash hider. The cage, as with the M16/AR15, was closed at
the bottom and open aross the top. This was to lessen muzzle climb during
firing of the weapon. These suckers give off a tremendous blast of heat
and will disturb foliage for yards around you. The original flash hiders
were conical devices placed on the muzzle to protect the shooter' eyes
during extended night engagements. This is as in charging hordes of crazed
bushito learned Japanese during the island wars. You could lose your night
vision and when the infiltrations began you could not see for awhile. It
was not to protect you from enemy detection.
As Chris from NZ states, your best protection against flash signature
is getting stand off and using layers of bush between you and the target.
Take advantage of the trajectory of the bullet and let the bullet fly unimpeded
over the trash you just sighted through. As we tell our students, stand
off, stand off, stand off. Or as Chris stated layer, layer, layer!
Muzzle - We teach several techniques of estimating distance by eye
and ALL of them require practice, practice, practice. The biggest key though
is to write down your first impression of the range. If you go that is
450, no 350, well maybe 600, uhhhhhh 525. You will never learn. The old
football field method is probably the WORSE method though. Want an example
of why? Look at the telephone poles on the road and see how they get closer
together as they get farther away. Now go to a range and look at the 500
yard line from the 600 yard line. That is 100 yards. Now try to superimpose
that distance down the range and estimate where you think the 200 yard
line should be located. Opps thats the target berm! While the mind sees
compression in perspective, it just does a crap job of putting it in practice
on the ground. Go look at common objects at different ranges and see how
they should appear. Practice, and when you see a man at 500 you will go
hey he's at 500 yards!
Gooch!! - If you remove the muzzle break from a 50 you don't need
to have it surgically removed from your should but the bruise will run
from just below the ear to just above the belt line. Been there, done that,
got taht t shirt. Now THAT is stupid!!! Sabot had taken off the break and
I wanted to see what would happen if fired with the break off the weapon
since it had just went down range. And still no Army comments!
Where are the Aggies?!!! I can't get anyone going this week! Oh well
have fun guys.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 02:09:19 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.207.204)
What do you all use in the field to keep your rifle clean? I got
to thinking about elk hunting last winter -- all the snow that kept falling,
drops of water in the first 1" of the bore on the muzzle end, drops of
water around the bolt from body heat warming up the snow. I figure you
military types have experienced harsh conditions, and all the rest have
gone hunting a time or two, so what are your thoughts on maintaining weapon
integrity in the field? At the end of the day, I can give my rifle a good
wipe down and get it dry again, but how about three hours into the hunt
when there's no way you're gonna take a break and go back to camp...
I had a few experiences with some of the 'old guys' during the hunt,
they would slip and maybe get a little snow packed around the bolt area...what
can I bring with me to get a rifle back into the hunt? This happened several
times; now these are experienced, proficient hunters but every now and
then everybody slips or trips and falls. Short of packing a full cleaning
kit in my ruck, what works best?
Thanks
Brian <bolt_308@yahoo.com>
OR, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 03:01:14 (ZULU) (your host address:
216.36.35.69)
I seem to have "LOST" my T-handled torque wrench (and all of it's
associated little doodads) from my kit on my last shoot. Loaned it, left
it, forgot it, kinda thing I just can't remember where the H%$@ it is..
Does anyone have a source for a new one on the civilian market. Please
e-mail me privately. Thanks in advance!
DJ Bolinski <david@proserv.microserve.com>
PA, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 11:10:45 (ZULU) (your host address:
198.70.182.58)
Military snipers are trained to estimate range by naked eye (within
15%), bino mil scale (10%) and scope mildot reticle (5%).
Naked eye techniques are listed in the Army FM 23-10 which you can
access online here.
www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/23-10/toc.htm
Out here
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 11:46:35 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.17.185)
Brian' I carry a m-16 cleaning kit (belt clip job) for all my rifles,
use a lot of stainless steel to make rifles with. I make a scope cover
from truck intertubes so that I can loose it if I need too and a balloon
over the muzzle. Put a discarded tooth brush in your pack for getting mud
out of the chamber and bolt area and around the scope. Don't neglect to
clean at night even on stainless rifles and barrels, most will turn to
crap in salt air. Browning is about the best in bad country. Weatherby
will rust badly and Remington is only
fair in real harsh weather. Parkerizing is best but has to be wiped
down because it's usually worn in a lot of places. IF your scope doesn't
fog you might get a shot in the Rockies on about the 5th day.
Use only synthetic stocks and rubber butt plates these days, there's
no way to get the rock dent's out of the barrel metal after the hunt. Consider
it a trophy to remember the hunt by.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 13:40:16 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)
Rick;
I must plead ignorance as to night vision equipment as I have never
even looked through any so I will have to take your word for the heat signature
but I cannot under stand how it would be worse than a standard barrel!!
The flash hider I sell was designed for LE and not for the military and
it works well. We did send a 300 Win to the Seals to test and they had
it for 6++ months and all of the grunts loved it but the guy with the check
book would not cough up the money but I did not get any reports about checking
it with NV good or bad. With the 308 all the flash that is visible with
the naked eye is two small side flashes and a blue flash inside the hider
at the muzzle and if you stand off in front of it at about 25 or so yds
you cannot see that. The 300 will give a flash about the size of a golf
ball, again hard to see if you were any distance in front of it.
When I get Kevin's rifle finished he has someone brave enough, not
me I learned at an early age which end of the gun I belonged on, to let
him shoot this and check it with NV.
We will see.
Jerry
Jerry
Rice <nor-cal@worldnet.att.net>
American Canyon, CA, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 13:53:01 (ZULU)
(your host address: 12.72.102.29)
DJ, you're not gonna like this, but those Seekonk wrenches run about
$65. Leupold sells 'em. Also try Grainger, MSC, or any other big tool seller.
Don't forget the pawn shops.
Jim <broonsma@prodigy.net>
PDX, Or, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 14:46:14 (ZULU) (your host
address: 63.255.8.133)
Rick, if it weren't you, (or Patrons Dave or 'Lito), I would disagree.
As it is you, please educate me. I've shot the "politically correct" chi-com
M-14 type (someone trying to convince me that it's JUST AS GOOD as any
Springfield M1A HA!), the one without the flash hider / muzzle break, and
it "kicked" just as much as my pre-ban M1A. I couldn't tell any difference
between muzzle rise either. Haven't shot the new PC Springfield yet, but
have noticed that they're specifically calling that thing (the new and
improved thing) on the end of the barrel a muzzle break, not a flash hider.
And I've seen those dealies that slip over the factory hider / break that
are called "stabilizers", that pull on the bayo lug for tension. But I've
always heard the standard M-14 part at the muzzle referred to as a flash
suppressor. If it's a muzzle break, it's not a good one at all. If it's
a flash suppressor, well, I'll have to take a great M1A shooter's word
for how well it works (never been down range with someone shooting a M1A),
but he claims that it's hardly visible when fired with the naked eye, even
from moderately short ranges.
See, you got one of them thar Aggies stirred up! And I don't need
no stinkin' anti-tank bayonet. You know the difference between the boyscouts
and the Army? Boyscouts don't have artillery! ;-) You asked for it!
And to let you guys know that I'm not some oddball, there's a movement
here where the American flags are being flown upside down to let "the media"
know that we're in protest of clit-ton's guvmint, and the world media (the
Ameriken media wouldn't touch it!) know we don't agree with how this country
is going! One doesn't spit on the constitution and hang around too long
here......
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic formerly known as the, USA - Saturday, May 06,
2000 at 16:19:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.145)
Well Bravo you had it almost right:
What's the difference between the Boy Scouts and the Army??
The Boy Scouts have adult leadership!
Sarge
Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 17:05:53 (ZULU) (your
host address: 206.245.243.55)
Sorry Guys been away for a few days or I would have got in on the
Muzzle Brake thing.
Rick, I have tested Jerrys device and it kills most of the night
time signature. I estimate about 90% is gone. I did not use NVD's, but
no flash was visible past 30 feet on the range. Yes I had my stupid A..
in front of the muzzle. I dont think you had a chance to see the device
at the Hathcock Match, but it is way different than anything else out there.
The device takes the gasses and runs them in circles in a can like attachment.
By the time it exits you just have the blast and noise left, nill on the
flash. This is all with 308 Win. I have not tested the 300 Win version
yet, but I think when I burn up my new 300 BBL I will change to the NightHawk
Device on the next one.
The only disadvantage to the Nighthawk is that it vents to the sides.
That is what you caught me on with my second shot in the Match. The damm
Rose bush I was in wiggled from the side blast. If I had not been Brain
Dead at the time I would have cut some side branches and then they would
not have moved. This was the first time I had used the device in a stalking
comp, so I learned from that one. I learned that you have the eyes of an
Eagle. Jerry's device looks like a small can, adds less than 1/2inch to
the OAL, drops the recoil substantially and kills most of the flash. It
just does not lower the sound signature. I see no reason not to use it.
Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 18:20:03 (ZULU) (your host address:
152.163.213.184)
I also have Jerry's device on a .308 and I will be putting it on
a .300 that I have one order with him. The device is very well machined
and it sure seems to do what it claims. I am looking forward to feeling
how much it reduces the felt recoil on the .300 as well. I will have it
with me when I go to New Mexico in a month. Maybe someone can bring some
NV equipment if they are going?
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
San Jose, CA, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 18:57:08 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.192.208.6)
I'am looking for reviews or tests on the Ruger M77VLE in 308. Any
help on this rifle would be greatly appreciated. I can't seem to find anything,
on the web, magazines, etc. Help.....glenn. email me at grb1154@aol.com
thanks
Glenn <grb1154@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 22:11:18 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.188.192.57)
Hi Ya'll. On the flash supressor/NVD issue, I've got no experience
but something to keep in mind is that NVD's will likely register a different
light frequency than is normally visible to the eyes. What that freq is
and how muzzle blast spectrum can change is not simple stuff. Basically
temperature dependent, which probably ties in to powder, muzzle pressure,
etc., etc. Build it, try it, fix it. Interesting topic though.
brandx <brandx375@aol.com>
sunny seattle, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 22:12:58 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.198.27)
Does anyone have any experience with Sako or Tikka rifles?
I am considering either a Sako 75 heavy barrel varmint or a Tikka
sporter, both in .308 or .30-06 caliber for long range (out to 1000y) tactical/target
shooting. The TRG-21 is beyond my budget!
Any coments as to accuracy and reliability would be greatly welcomed.
Devin <dethredge@msn.com>
USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 22:15:49 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.20.87.129)
Hey Guys,
Gonna try my hand at rifle silhouette next weekend. I know my 700VS
with Badgers and SS10X42M is wayyyy over weight but where I shoot they
are pretty easy going unless someone complains.
Just gonna use Federal GM 168's since I know what there doing out
there.
My question is since you gotta do this on your hind legs with no
sling, anyone got any advice on stance or fore end hold, or for that matter
any advice will be appreciated.
I don't want to look too bad since sniper rifles are sorta looked
down on to start with, you know 10 power and mil dots.
Danny
Danny Reever <dreever@supernet.com>
Arendtsville, Pa, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 22:33:17 (ZULU) (your
host address: 208.157.109.79)
Bravo - You are right and I am wrong. The devices on the muzzle
of the M14 and M16 were/are flash suppressors. I am guilty of twisted thinking
and bad memory. They were the original reasons the flash suppressors were
tested. The signature from them was causing problems during the night stalks
against the thermals and NVDs. The signature was significant to say the
least. I admit again I was in error they are flash supressors and not muzzle
breaks. The muzzle break (stabilizer assembly) was an attachment for the
squad auto system on the old M14A1. Sorry guys, screwed up.
Oh yeh and the question/answer is the difference between the Green
Berets and Girls Scouts is adult supervision. There Gooch if you wouldn't
I will.
Mike - Do not remember Jerry's device on your rifle. Sounds interesting
but again as you stated the side signature from venting gas can be a problem.
The signature from your weapon was not that great (hehe) I just got lucky
(hehe) and spotted it(chuckle chuckle). Sorry Mike could not resist. Hmm
what was it that got you Pete? Can't remember.
Jerry - Heck man, I trust Mike to hit what he is shooting. I will
stand down range for him to shoot a target. It is actually not too awfully
dangerous as long as all know each other and there are reasonable safety
precautions taken. LE may want to think NVDs now that the Russian Mafia
is scatterin the stuff around for cocaine and stuff like that. They are
the new world distributers of the latest and greatest stuff.
I do need to stress that the reasons for our not using flash suppressors
or hiders is that there is an increase in the heat signature from vented
gases. That signature is also significant when the gases are vented to
the sides and up and it disturbs the vegetation. I have not tested all
devices but all of them I have tested have failed miserable. Mike, if you
can do an IR check with NVDs and let me know on Jerry's device I would
like to know. Also what is the change in ballistics caused by the device,
if any. This has been a fun thread. What other statements can I make that
will cause more incoming?
Cleaning kits in the field I use the Kit and Caboodle pull cable
rod. Have problems leting a sectioned rod go down the bore. They can damage
lands with the section ends. Use a muzzle guide for sure and pull carefully.
The muzzle guide will fit in the cut out section designed for the shot
gun plug. Since I'm not using it for my shot gun I don't need that piece
of equipment. The cable rod will also knock a case out when it is used
for that problem as well.
Better go now before I decide that the muzzle crown is there to reduce
recoil. Did I say that?
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 22:35:35 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.206.213)
Cool! I'd like to reiterate Rick's (working on Patron Rick?) sentiment.
NO JOINTED RODS! Now for the question. I've checked my muzzle signature
from about 50 yards in my mouse gun (5.56mm), friend firing at about 1:00
and saw a BIG flare from AA2230. No muzzle break / flash hider. Since I
like Accurate (and VV) powders so much, I worked up a load with the next
faster powder, AA2015, which shows a very SMALL signature, a little smaller
than that of a tennis ball max (?), with no change in MV. If heat is the
culprit with NV, would a faster powder with NO visible signature be bestest?
I could sacrafice (SP?) a hundred or so FPS with this weapon to get it
light proof at "normal" ranges, as I'm hot rodding it now anyways. AA16whatever
is QUICK though.
Has anyone else noticed that SMK's are hard to get? I left someone
7 boxes at Lock, Stock, and Barrel but my first 2 choices were out. Sinclair
got the rest of my business, but they were somewhat high price. Rumor has
it from LS&B that it's 'cause Sierra went on strike last year and still
is having problems filling orders. Specialties over 4 months.
And in the interest of ever increasing ease of living, I've decided
to try Hornady's spray case lube. Anyone know if it will damage primers?
I'm gonna spray 1500 FN berdan primed new cases for Mike's class, and would
hate to see any duds.
Got some MAJOR good info in last US Constitution class, e-mail me
off line if interested. Now I KNOW where all this CRAP comes from! Now
all I need is another 20 or so semesters and I'll know what I need to!
Semper fi, and where the heck is dinner?
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the upside down flag flyin banana republic formerly known as the, USA
- Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 23:11:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.218)
Reloading,
Well, things are sure looking up. I've narrowed my loads down for
my .308 Win to two loads. These loads are the best that I've tested yet...
168gr Sierra HPBT/MK, 46.0gr WW-748, F215GM primer, seated to the
lands.
175gr Sierra HPBT/MK, 42.0gr H-Varget, F210GM primer, seated to the
lands.
Both of these loads are supremely accurate in my rifle, on a calm
day they will print under a 3/8" at 100 yards. But! I do have a wee bit
of a problem with run out. So, I ordered a K&M neck turning tool to
rectify that problem. I measured the necks very carefully and found that
the necks were a bit thicker on one side than on the other.
This resulted in unexpected fliers (those were predicted, and they
were marked with the amount of run out in felt marker on the case) and
traced to a excessive run out. Once this is fixed I expect my groups to
shrink quite a bit.
I was actually suprised that even with a hot barrel the rifle will
shott under a 1/2" C to C.
I do have a question to put foreward at this time. How often do you
punch the bore on the range? I think I will do so every 15-20 rounds to
try to keep fouling to a minimum. After the copper builds up you can plainly
see the group begining to spread out.
Last question. I want to start developing loads for my .300 Win mag
sendero. What is a good load to start with? Does anyone have trouble with
run out on such a short neck? How do you seat your bullets, to lands and
grooves? What powder works best? I'm starting with H-4350.
Thanks in advance my brothers!
Semper Fidelis!
Bad Karma
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 23:28:39 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.77.71.52)
Danny, Re: Offhand Shooting.
Danny, this is the kind of shooting that I mostly do nowdays. I
manage to learn a thing or two every time I spend and hour or so practicing.
And I am still looking for all the help I can get any way I can find it.
I saw a re-run Jag episode where there was a Marine sniper who liked to
shoot off sideview mirrors of hum-veee's at over 1000 meters offhand. I
taped it and played it over and over and re-discovered a secret that I
once knew but forgot. This sounds like I am kidding but I am not.
This Marine sniper had to duplicate a shot that got him into alot
of hot water. His whole rest of his life, whether he would be sent to prison
or retire honorably from the Marines depended on him making a shot on a
sidview mirror of moving Hum-vee at over 1000 meters. The whole time he
was standing at attention waiting to be handed a sniper rifle with one
round he had this smirk on his face. It drove me nuts! He even had half
a smirk on his face while he was aiming the rifle. Anyway, he made the
shot.
Lesson learned. You won't make the shot if you don't think you can!
A confident attitude helps some. You gain confidence thru practice.
You guys really got to tape this episode and analyze it to death.
It also contains the secret as to why Marines do not worry about the Magnus
Effect. I am not giving this one away. It will probably be on the USA channel
again in another couple of months or so.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 23:52:09 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.143.61.84)
I've noticed some messages about Accuracy Intl. rifles and equipment.
I'd like to report that AI has signed an agreement with the new management
at Gunsite Training Academy to be the distributor for the West region (West
of the Miss.). I have been appointed as the field rep, and will be receiving
demo rifle systems shortly. Should anyone have any questions on AI equipment,
please feel free to contact me via email, Cory_Trapp@email.msn.com. I'd
especially like to hear from current users of the AI rifles, positive or
negative. Having only used an AWP for a short time, my only negative points
are the weight (13+ lbs), and I never cared much for thumbhole stocks.
Perhaps I can meet up with Scott or Gooch and provide some trigger time
on the rifles for a review here at SC. Anyone in the Prescott, AZ area
feel free to contact me to set up a demo, I've got 800 yards staked out
in the back yard. For qualified buyers, we can arrange to fly to your location,
contact me for details.
Dope it, Dial it, Dump it
CT
Cory Trapp <Cory_Trapp@email.msn.com>
Paulden, AZ, USA - Saturday, May 06, 2000 at 23:58:23 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.14.189.98)
Gents,
Can anyone offer a pet load for 6MM Rem? I'm using a 24" barrel with
a 1 in 10 twist. I prefer about an 80 grain bullet but will appreciate
any accurate loads you can offer.
Thanks!
Roger Lays <rlays@zbzoom.net>
PA, USA - Sunday, May 07, 2000 at 00:07:09 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.67.120.227)
As usual, a strictly useless question here, but with all this discussion
about flash hiders and NVD I have to ask.
How much sniping is done after dark to even worry about NVD signature?
Told you it was a useless question!
Bolt now goes back to Plaster's and Lau's books to look up the answer,
out.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, May 07, 2000 at 01:44:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.147.33)
Well, you guys are right about those sectionalized rods. I cleaned
a .223 Savage FP prairie dogger with one about 3 times a week for about
5 years. After 10000 rounds or more, the accuracy had faded to about 1
moa. Wouldn't want that to happen. By all means use something else when
your 10000' amsl at -5 deg below zero, with a case stuck in your 300 Win
mag.
That's happened to me and all I could think about was the .00000001"
dent I was gonna put in that rifling with that rod...and the beer
I was gonna have if I ever got back to camp. You see grasshoppers out there,
that's the difference between casual shooters like me and real serious
Snipe's. It's all in the stiffness of their rods!
Bolt; you got to quit bringing up all this frivial stuff, you should
know that night snipin is about all done after dark! I can't see my MIl
Dot master after dark anyhow. If you look real quick while that flash is
there you can ....almost get a readin but them dots is hard to read on
a target about midnight.
Fergive me already!
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Sunday, May 07, 2000 at 04:32:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Bravo,
The Hornady One-Shot case lube is good and easy to use, but keep
it away from the plastic MTM Case Gard loading trays if you use them.
The solvent in it will melt the tray and you will end up with mozzarella-type
strings of plastic on your cases.
Wooden trays work fine.
They (Hornady) reckon it is harmless to primers or powder.
Also, make sure you wait for a couple of minutes for the solvent
to fully evaporate or the cases can stick in the dies.
With a name like One-Shot its got to be good for sniper ammo :-)
Sniff.
Sniff <akh805@actrix.gen.nz>
Auckland , New Zealand - Sunday, May 07, 2000 at 04:40:23 (ZULU) (your
host address: 203.96.49.197)
I have a 6mm-.284 varminter gun. I'm looking into loading moly bullets
for it, mainly for barrel wear purposes. Right now, it's wearing a shilen
heavy barrel (on an improved mauser). What's the word on moly and barrel
wear? If it doesnt help a lot, I might as well stick with my regular match
bullets.
Dconrad
Derek Conrad <dsconrad@swbell.net>
manhattan, ks, USA - Sunday, May 07, 2000 at 08:46:10 (ZULU) (your
host address: 208.189.101.113)
Derek...
There have been many write-ups on moly, and the argument as to weither
it aids to accuracy still goes on... but as to barrel wear, it's of zero
help.
Barrels don't wear from friction. If that were the case, it would
be the muzzles that went first. The burn out from flame temperature, and
it happens in the throat, and your 6x284 is one of the barrel burning-est
calibers there is!
So every time you fire a round, drop 50 cents in the jelly jar,
so you will have the price of a new barrel just when that one is a goner!
Bill R...
You ol' yote bate... you mean to tell me you bought the day version
of the Mil-dot Master. Shame on you... get the night version... it lights
up green like a timex watch ;))
Rick...
The muzzle crown "IS" there to reduce recoil, and the stepped ones
are more betterer than the round ones, and you know that! ;))
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, May 07, 2000 at 10:17:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.27)
Any of you propeller heads that know about de-fraging an 80gig Mac
striped RAID, drop me an e-mail.
(No guys... it's not a bunch of prisoners in flack jackets, raiding
a Duncan Donuts ;)
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, May 07, 2000 at 10:25:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.27)
Master Rick,
What got me busted at the Carlos Match????
I cain't really remember but it had to be one of these memorable
lines:
Choice A-
"Flopping like a Bass out of water" courtesy of Sinister Dave.
"Flopping like a Bass out of water" courtesy of Sinister Dave.
"Flopping like a Bass out of water" courtesy of Sinister Dave.
Choice B -
"You Idiot (my addition) thats the wrong color camo for the vegetation"
Courtesy unnamed observer
"You Idiot (my addition) thats the wrong color camo for the vegetation"
Courtesy unnamed observer
"You Idiot (my addition) thats the wrong color camo for the vegetation"
Courtesy unnamed observer
Choice C-
"Keep your Freaking head down!!!!!!!!!!!"
"Keep your Freaking head down!!!!!!!!!!!"
"Keep your Freaking head down!!!!!!!!!!!"
Have a GREAT WEEKEND folks
Pete "The Trim Painter" R <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
Big City, By-Gawd, USA - Sunday, May 07, 2000 at 11:19:36 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.213.59)
There you go again Lito' told everybody but me about them ni