Sniper Country Duty Roster

December 19, 1999 - December 29, 1999


Lefty Jim B

I too am a lefty (wrong eye shooter) who shoots a LH rem. 700 and have already done what your looking to do. Contact and I'll give you a down load.
Jeff
Jeff <harmonj@ttc.com>
McKinney, TX, USA - Sunday, December 19, 1999 at 00:19:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.195.46)


Jeff,
I just received my Springfield M1A from McMillan where they put their M3A stock on it.

The overall fit and finish is very good. The rifle now weighs in at over 15lbs with a Leupold VariXIII M3 mounted with a Brookfield and a Harris bipod.

The ONLY complaint I has about the M3A is that McMillan failed to provide a drain hole for gas build up. This hole can be found on all M14/M1A stocks and is located near the forward sling mounting point.

The hole prevents gas and fouling from collecting in the forwad action. I'll have to creat this hole myself I guess.

I thought McMillan would have better "attention to detail" than this.
Brian M. <slapsho7@hotmail.com>
Orange Co., CA, USA - Sunday, December 19, 1999 at 10:12:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.156.228.76)


Just purchased AR-10T, looking for scope in my price range. Wish I had the cash for Leupold MK4, but $1100 is too steep for me. Need some advice on which one of these two I should get, so I pointed out the specs on both. If you know of any better, around $300, please comments after judging these two.
Prices are Sightron-250, Tasco-$300.
I came to the conclusion of Two, the Sightron 3x12x42mm (or 4x16x42) or the Tasco Super Sniper, which is only 10x. Both have Mil Dot, which I must have on a scope.

Good and Bad things of both:

The Tasco has Bullet drop compensator(1/8), sightron does not.
Sightron has variable power settings, tasco is fixed 10x.
Tasco has 4" eye relief, Sightron has 3.5" (I\'ve heard that 4" can be a problem since the scope has to be mounted much more forward , and there\'s a possibility of running out of space to mount the scope.)
Both have Mil Dot (Although Sightron kind of has a Different way of calculating it, but it still works, just one has to get used to it.)
Both are good construction.
Sightron is 13oz, tasco is 26oz. Big difference.
Tasco has 30mm tube, Sightron has 1" (1" is Smaller for you non metric folks.)

You can read full reviews of the tasco and Sightron scope here:
http://snipercountry.com/inreview.htm#Optics

I plan on using this rifle for all purpose use, such as target shooting, hunting, home defense, and the occasional L.A. riot.
So, please let me know if you would dump the BDC, bullet drop compensator, and stick with the variable, or the other way. I\'m personally leaning toward the variable; Let me know if I should go with 3-12x or 4-16x.

All input appreciated.

Thanks Guys.

Pete.
Enthusiastic AR-10T Owner.

Peter Sokolowski <cryogre@netzero.net>
Sherman Oaks, CA, USA - Sunday, December 19, 1999 at 10:30:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.245.69.187)


Hi,
I am looking for some infomation about the relation between the twist rate of the bore and the weight of a bullet.Assuming that heavier bullets require a quicker twist to stabilize them,I wonder what will be the regular twist rate for 243 270 708 and 7 RM for light bullet and for heavier one.
thank you
HERTZ
HERTZ <hertzl@club-internet.fr>
france - Sunday, December 19, 1999 at 13:59:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 195.36.141.150)
Another crappy C&E Gunshow in Winston this weekend. Don't know why I spend the money to go. Same old crap, just higher priced than last month. Did see a Stoner SR15 carbine with collapsable stock, only 300 made was the the line I got. He wanted $1850, yeah right!

Met a kid from Fayettenam that is making one of the finest Ghillie base suits that I have seen. This kid is good and the price for the pants, coat and hat is only $140. Boonie has top cut out and replaced with mesh, top has back cut out and replaced with mesh, netting is attached, pockets relocated to inside, canvas on front hiding buttons. Real good looking stuff. I have his name and number if anyone wants it. Would really like to help this kid out. RBowcher, you could check his stuff out and give your opinion.

Now to shooting......Other than for hunting is there any practical use for a 270? I keep looking at the 270 Sendero in the safe and wondering why I keep it. Would make a good trading base on something else possibly. Like a 338? Could it be re-chambered for something more useful?

More reloading questions......
Please rate brass for reloading.
What is so good about the Lake City and is it worth that much more than Fed GM? Would you sell your Fed GM and buy the Lake City if available?
Is nickel plated worth keeping?
Primers, which are the best?

How many of you use bipods? I practiced dry firing Friday out in the yard and this is the clumsiest way of shooting that I have ever used. Went in and got my pack and practiced shooting on it as a rest. Much smoother.
 

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, December 19, 1999 at 15:34:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.47.174)


great site! always enjoy the history of snipers.
Channing Thomas <channingthomas@aol.com>
macon, ga, USA - Sunday, December 19, 1999 at 20:40:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.102.47.70)
Pete/AR-10T Owner- Not sure what you mean about the Tasco 10x42SS having a BDC (Bullet Drop Compensator). I have a Tasco SS and it did not come with any BDC nor are there BDC turrets offered for such a scope- that I know of. The Tasco merely has 1/4 min. adjustments and a Milirad Dot reticle for range finding purposes using a target of KNOWN dimensions. A scope like the Leupold M1 DOES have a true BDC- meaning the interchangeable turrets are calibrated to one single loading of one single caliber and only function when fired through a single barrel length. If you change ANY one of the variables (like using it on a gas operated semi-auto w/ different barrel length or using a different bullet weight or different ballistic co-efficient) the BDC will be off- i.e. not work.

If anyone knows of a company that will custom-mark Tasco turrets as BDCs for say, the current NATO standard 7.62 sniper round, please post to the Duty Roster.

Thanks to everyone here for the valuable info. & have a Merry Christmas!

Douglas
Douglas <douglass9@hotmail.com>
Balt. , USA - Sunday, December 19, 1999 at 23:00:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.78.236.167)


Doug Maki,

If you read this, please e-mail me again, AOL crashed before I could send you a reply. :-(
 

Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
Big City, By-GaWd, USA - Sunday, December 19, 1999 at 23:31:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.47)


Uses for the .270:

Weell, as far as I know, the 270 is about the most useful round around. Ammunition is commonly available and you can hunt darn near anything with it. Loaded with light bullets, it makes a decent, but heavy varmit gun. Load up with some 150 or 170 grainers, and you can use it for moose, elk, or bear, even if it is a bit light. It wouldn't be my first choice for Africa, but I'd bet it can be done (by a knowledgable person with guts and who knows the risks. Don't try this at home, kids)

I think the word I'm looking for is versatility. You can do a lot with the caliber to cover the entire spectrum of uses. If I could only pick one rifle to use for the rest of my life fr everything, it would have to be in .270.

The above is not a game or a challenge. You are not being requested to name your own single caliber. This does not have to stretch into one of THOSE threads (even though I know ya'll better).
Karl <dahm0030@tc.umn.edu>
Damn Cold, Mn, USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 03:07:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.84.148.151)


Howdy,
Looking to buy a Winchester Model 70 in the 300Win.Mag for my all purpose North American hunting rifle. The dealer asked me if I wanted the "Boss Accuracy Device" on the weapon, and I responed with a stare and then asked him what the h*** was he talking about. He told that is was a device that would make the weapon more accurate due to being able to tune the vibrations in the barrel to match(complament)what the bullet needs for best accuracy and it has a muzzle brake built in with it to boot. That caught my ear so speak I do not want a muzzle brake on a hunting rifle because I want to enjoy what little hearing that I have left. So for a HUNTING rifle what are your views on the "Boss Accuracy Device and does it work like the dealer explained to me.Thanks.
Stagger Lee
Stagger Lee <Lmcpher104@Aol.com>
flat Land, In, USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 03:16:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.47)
Karl; this page should be called "Threads are us!" Mine would be the 25-06. (I don't own one at this time). But that would be my choice.
2nd would be .308. I do own one of those. There was a chap that used the 7mm Mauser on about everything in Africe. He is often confused with Jack O'conner the .270 advocate. But there you have it.
Stagger; The BOSS does help tune the barrel but it can be purchased without the holes making it a tuning device and not a recoil/muzzle tammer. I think Browning sells it for about $30.00 without the holes.
You right... you ears will love you for the purchase. It does affect the accuracy but it is debatable as to whether or not it is better for accuracy to have the full effect. I have a browning striker that has a open and close compensator (not a BOSS tuner). The accuracy is better with the thing open but ears won't stand it without protection.
Strangly enough the point of impact seems unaffected by changing the ports closed or open but the accuracy of the gun is better with the ports open. A Browning .243 showed no difference I could tell in accuracy with the closed BOSS vs. THE open one. I must say I really didn't think it was the best way to go because it injected another variable. However you could always find a worse and better place with the BOSS tuner. I think a little load tuning might be just as good but if your shooting factory loads it might be a real value there.

B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 04:01:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)


NUts' make that a SAVAGE striker instead of a BROWNING.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 04:02:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
If I could only have one and could reload it would be a 7 mag.
If I couldn't load 30/06.
But what do I know I still like to shoot the Garand? (sorry Mr. Rogers)

Tried to do some 700 yard shooting with the 300 mag sendero the other day. Not the best of conditions. Man i have to save some money for better glass. The Tasco does ok for hunting but it had its hands full the other day. 10 - 12 inch groups were the best i could do. Also had several 18 - 20 inchers :(

I'm sure the hardware could do better if i could aquire the target in a more positive manor.
Time to dust off the piggy bank and start a glass fund.
recon
Ron <recon@midusa.net>
Ks, USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 05:07:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.96.14.17)


Sako Oy was bought by Beretta 17th Dec 99 !!

Yes, the 500+ year old Beretta bought Sako Oy wholly last week for an undisclosed sum. Right now nobody knows what will happen, but I think a family run business, that has been in gun production business for over 500 years most probably will mean good things for Sako.

Beretta has had several different cooperations with Dakota, Sako and others over the years, but Beretta never has produced a 100% Beretta rifle design, so this acquisition most probably will mean that Sako will take care of future rifle desing for the whole group.

Another issue: Sako has been tinkering with TRG-42, that is a militarized (Product Improved) TRG-41 in 338 LM. Unfortunately Sako has been unable to sell these rifles to any relevant army in any relevant quantities due to politics and the fact that not even the Finnish Defense Forces have officially adopted it yet. Italian Army has also been interested in 338 LM rifles and here might be the chance of Sako/Beretta: Any weapon that an army is buying, is all the better if it is produced domestically, or if the company is at least owned by a domestic company.-> Beretta/Sako TRG-42 might have a good chance to be adopted by the Italian Army if the rifle passes their tests. This would mean that the rifles woudl be easier to sell also to other armies and civilian shooters.-> Beretta acquistition might be a quite good thing, especially as both companies are very quality oriented companies.

Thought some of you might want to know this.

Regards,

Heikki
Heikki Juhola <juhola@luukku.com>
Helsinki, Finland - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 10:33:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 195.10.129.65)


Bolt,
The 270 is a great all around hunting rifle but if your looking for a long range tactical rifle rebarrel it the the 6.5x284 its the round of the furture in tactical shooting. I have shot tons of LC match brass in the 308s and swore by it but I think the new Federal Match brass is more consistant. I used to hate Federal because it was so inconsistant but they must have made some changes for the better because the new brass I have is very good and shoots great.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 14:31:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)
Douglas: I think you may have mistyped. The Leupold M1 is also a ¼ minute turret like the Tasco SS10x42M. It is more a target scope than a field scope for this reason, but can easily be used for both with a little familiarization. At any rate, it is the Leupold M3 and/or the LR M3 that has the interchangeable BDC turrets.

You can however, mark both the M1 and Tasco turret for elevation. Once you determine your zeros you can simply cut a strip of tape to go around the circumference of the turret near the top or bottom and place numbers on the tape to reflect the range. You will have to rotate the turret several times to get out to 1000 yards though, so you'll have to really consider how you set up the ticks for clarity.

Other Topic: 7.62x54R brass. If you just want reloadible brass there are currently several choices of hunting loads on the market for the 7.62x54R round. It is non corrosive and Boxer primed. Checkout Shotgun Snews.

Bolt, keep your Federal Brass and save your money. LC match brass is good, but it is no better then the current Fed GM brass. I base this opinion on using both for handloads over the past 15 years. I have noticed no real difference in accuracy. The LC is a little thicker, but the Fed seems to be of better quality. Use what you got and save your cash. LC has not really lasted any longer for me than Fed, so I am not sure it can even claim that as a pro point in its favor. In short, they both work.

A question for all: I recently developed a doozy of a head cold. Snored so bad the wife had to leave the room. So, this brings to mind an obvious tactical problem that I figure will give some of you some fodder for the next sniper/field-ex thread. How do you deal with snoring in the field environment? Even perfectly healthy troops snore at the worst times. You have to sleep sometime. Your Spotter/sniper/security element may not be able to get to you before you give away the hide. Answers? Observations? Gooch? Rick? Anyone? This is just a fun one to break up the monotony. Enjoy and happy holidays.

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 19:16:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.91.146.34)


Scott,

I would consider making him sleep under the NBC Mask ! Or better tie a long section of paracord to him were it hurts and jank it when he starts snoring or its time for him for stag.

t
torsten <torsten.erning@t-online.de>
Germany - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 19:25:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 212.185.248.118)


Scott,
Interesting question, I have thought of that myself esp since I have gotten older. I snored so bad sometimes my wife would either leave or make me go into the other bedroom, esp. when I was really tired. I did find that when I lost about 10 to 15lbs, getting into shape, the snoring mostly went away. I think that as we get older we put on extra weight and this is one of the big causes for snoring. The other thing, it would be a real bitch to stay awake for that late watch at my age!!! Maybe this is why old men start wars and young men fight them(HA).
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 20:17:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)
Will the fine gentleman who sent me the, umm.., less-than-supportive e-mail a few days ago please send it again. I lost your return address.

CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 21:31:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.237.66)


Make that "very unpleasant e-mail".
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 22:28:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.237.90)
Snoring:
there's usually a side that the snorer can lay on where they don't snore. that's they way you have to sleep (like I do). Some of you more experienced field types pipe in on this one but: seems like sniper/spotter are usually in reach of one another - so the one that's awake nudges the other that is snoring. Hopefully the person that does snore will know the non-snore sleeping position for his/herself.

Pablito: you strike me as the type that sounds like a darn sawmill when you're sleeping :))

Ken
Ken <Ken@Hunters.org>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 22:44:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.39)


Recon, what makes you think different glass will shrink your groups at long range? Is it because you can't see the target? Is it because the scope won't repeat zero from shot to shot?

Until you look thru your Tasco and then others (Loo-pold, or whatever you think is better)side by side, you cannot ASSume that the other scopes are clearer and/or better. If the Tasco shoots good at shorter ranges, then it should do as well at longer range. Be sure to cover the basics, i.e. have the parallax dialed out, the lenses clean, and the scope on tight.

If your equipment is sound, then CONDITIONS and the shooter are what will cause the bigger groups at long range. I'm no expert for sure, but I do know that too many shooters blame their equipment first, and then spend money needlessly (unless it's burning a hole in your pocket!) on stuff they think is better. And who knows, maybe the placebo effect will improve their shooting, or maybe the equipment is at fault. But it sure pays to cover the basics, before you pay for new equipment.

And what about ammo? Is your ammo sub-m.o.a. quality?

Before you relegate that Tasco to the has-been pile, make sure that the rest of the system is going good. Just my advice, and worth what it cost. (If I got paid for my opinion, I would charge more.)
 
 
 
 
 

Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Radioactive, CA, USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 23:29:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.14.52.225)


On the snoring thing.....didn't think snipers slept!

On the 6.5x284.....I like the idea. I assume this is a wildcat catteridge, are there dies for it? What are the ballistics? Who can rechamber? The 270 is really boring especially when there is a 308, 7 mag and 300 mnag sitting right beside of it.

Before all you guys get gone for the holidays, a humble Bolt would like to wish you a Happy Christmas and a Merry New Year. I hope the new year is a bump in the road and no one gets hurt. If your travels take you through Winston-Salem and you need emergency help, go to the Forsyth Medical Center ED and ask the people to open the company phone book and page Bolt. Will be glad to help you all I can. Maybe next year we can find a flock of sheepies and a case of beer and have a sniper orgy.
 

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Monday, December 20, 1999 at 23:42:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.190.30)


I am intrested in collecting sniper rifles & equiptment ww1 ww2 korea vietnam era. Where can I go to meet other collecters on line?
2 Gun <reese2@geneseo.net>
Ill, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 00:03:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.28.227.22)
Wills.

My gun will shoot 5 into 0.4 inch at 100 wxen i do my part. The main problem seemed to be that i had trouble focusing the target at 700.
My friends 4x14 by 40 leupold would show the target clearly.
My scope is the 5-20 mag iv 50mm. It seems to be clear at 400yrds. tried paralax adjustment but couldn't get it to clear up at 700.
recon
recon <recon@midusa.net>
ks, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 00:29:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.96.14.69)


2 Gun
Here are a few web sites that should keep you busy for a while.

http://www.jouster.com/
http://www.gunandknife.com/cgi-bin/boards/03config.pl
http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=tuco10
http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=tuco11&all=yes
http://www.gunandknife.com/cgi-bin/boards/garandconfig.pl?
http://www.gunandknife.com/cgi-bin/boards/enfconfig.pl
 

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 01:16:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.148.103)


Scott; On the problem you mentioned. There is a machine that puts about 5-7 lbs of air on the person's pilate and that will stop the snoring. It is not practical to use in the field and is used to treat people who have a real problem with snoring and sleep disorders. But I do have a theory that this machine will teach the person to breath differently and thus reduce the snoring. There is no data to support this. Have been working on this idea for a while and trying the machine to support raising oxygen level and thus supercharging the person sleeping on it while stopping the pilate vibrations that produce the snoring. Since it is a perscription type machine it is quite hard to obtain one unless a real problem can be diagnosed by one of those sleep clinics.(about a $5000 procedure) This sleep disorder can be monitored by testing the oxygen level of the person on a recording device and comparing it through the various stages of sleep during the night. (a less expensive but perscription test).
The machines should be for sale in Walmart because they do no harm at all but cost about $1000 and will send you out to meet the day as if you were on Oxygen all night. 5 Hours of sleep will recharge you to full bore. My theory is that if Snipers or Recon men slept regularly on these machines they would not only stop snoring in the barracks but would be trained to stop when in the field and not on the machine. Unfortunately noone else is working on that problems yet. It needs looked into. Somebody needs to apply for a grant....
I was not a very heavy snoring sleeper but my oxygen dropped considerably below 90 and dangerously low after some heart problems.
A friend (respiratory therapist) discovered that the problem was curable by one of these machines and my Doctor helped us with the tests. I snore only when extremely tired these days. Someone mentioned the weight problem and that is a factor but some very fit and slim people have the problems also. It's a new idea to cure it this way but I believe it might work for some people. IF your tired during the day or having snoring problems check this out with your doctor.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 01:47:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Had to add my 2 cents on the snoring thread. When I was a squad leader, there was a guy in my squad that snored like a chainsaw. He was REALLY loud. So finally, I decided to just put him out on "LP/OP" every night. This had two advantages: first, the obvious advantage of not having to listen to him and second, to divert the enemy away from my position. It took a whole roll of commo wire to get him out far enough that I couldn't hear him any more.
X54 <fivefour@garlic.com>
CA, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 02:09:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.211.178.25) Recon...

Two things to keep in mind.
First, if your gun will shoot .4" at 100 yds, that doesn't translate into 4" groups at 1000. Even if the gun was bolted to a concrete piling, the groups would open up to between 10" to 30", depending on a number of variables.

On the focus thing... Large objective scopes have a lot of trouble focusing in conditions where there is heat, and/or mirage. It shows up in shooting scopes, as well as astronomical instruments.

There are now several makers of rifle scopes that incorporate "iris diaphrams" in the objective lens, to reduce the opening under heavy mirage conditions... Pentax and Burris come to mind.
You can do the same thing by taking a lens cap, and cutting a 1.25" hole in it... try that on your 700 yd targets... it'll probably help a lot.

Ken...
Humbug!, and where's my pictures.

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 02:21:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.75)


BRAVO: the 165gr balistic tips shoot .75-.50moa groups through my .300win.mag in front of an obscene amount of RL22.

USAF E6: The above gun is a Win. Laredo. It is stock from the factory. The guys will hate me telling you this because they are all Remington fans, but if you're gunsmith can do more with a remington than a Winchester then get a new gunsmith. Anything that is made for the Rem. is also made for the Win. If you want the BOSS
Jeff cooper <loflyin@aol.com>
memphis, tn, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 03:15:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.163)


USAF E6: If you want the BOSS "I don't have one" get it quick. Winchester has quit offering them due to lack of customer interest "Rednecks couldn't figure out how to use them, and were scared by the extra noise"
jeff cooper <loflyin@aol.com>
memphis, tn, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 03:19:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.163)
Merry Christmas to all,

Quick question. When I was a youngen back in the early 70's, WD-40 was the end all cure all for guns lubs. As I grew older WD-40 seemed to have gained a bad reputation as a lub for guns and caused all sorts of problems in them. As of late (tactical shooter article) and some mention on the varmint hunters web site, WD-40 is being recommended. Any thoughts?

PS. Everyone have a great holiday season and stay safe!!
Jeff <harmonj@ttc.com>
McKinney , TX, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 03:23:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.194.211)


'lito,

As long as were talking optics: For a guy operating alone; 25x Looie, spotter case sold by premier recticles and 8x German high-dollar minis? For a two man team; the spotter set-up above and 8x German compacts? For a guy coverin' ground just the 8x compacts?

A guy who wishes to remain anonymous (Bravo) wants to know the best value in full-size 8x binos. I have the 10x B&L Elite. They are as clear as some I spent much more on. Does anyone know a better deal?

CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 03:29:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.237.82)


RE snoring- probably everyone has seen pro athletes wearing those nasal strips. They were originally developed for snorers, I have read. apparently they work pretty well. We got some free samples, I used them running a few times, they were no big deal, but I dug them out just now and they do claim to help snoring, but it may be a week or more of continuous use before improvement is seen. It might be worth trying, these things must be pretty cheap.
Mark J <markj12pct@aol.com>
Columbus, Ohio, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 05:07:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.198.56)
Jeff; WD-40 will help keep your gun from rusting and with that it is quite effective. It is not an oil. Don't use it that way. It is not a bore scrubber and is a poor sub for ammonia and other chemical based products for that. It's mostly a penetrator and will go deep in the actions. If you allow it to build up it will stop your gun from firing on a cold day. I mean a "cold" day. Put it on and rub it off is the word or use it where springs and things can't be bound up if it turns to 80 wt. oil. Some say it will ruin a stock. I've never seen that happen. It's supposed to dry out the wood. Been using it all along for keeping guns like new and preventing rust. Took a Thompson Contender into the Bob Marshall wilderness once and forgot the WD. It almost rusted away inside and out before I could get out of there. An oil cloth saved it barely from complete destruction.

B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 05:08:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)


Thanks Pablito for the tip. using butler creek caps but ill make the reducer out of card stock or something and give it a try. I realize the dispertion gets larger as the range increases. So far 700 is about as far as i have shot on paper. going to play more at 5 6 and 7 hundred before moving on out so ill know more what to expect.
That is if Ks weather will ever cooperate.
recon
Recon <recon@midusa.net>
ks, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 06:08:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.96.14.1)
Jeff,
I've used CLP to coat the OUTSIDE of my firearms since the early 70's. As long as it's renewed before venturing into the field and afterward as the last cleaning step it has served me well as a barrier against moisture. The wd-40 is what I use to hose out (action only) my .22 handguns and rifles (only with the stock removed) and then I clean and dry with rags, Q-tips etc. and lube appropriately. WD is not a good lube. I used to use CLP on my weapons as a lube, but since I started shooting an M1A and a Mini-14 I have been using Lubriplate on the M1A and Brownell's Action Lube Plus on the Stainless Mini. In fact I've taken to using the Action plus on nearly everything else except the M1A. Works really nice. Especially on bolts and slide rails. Slicks 'em right up.
Spud,
Out

Sorry for rambling...
Dennis <usmcspud@aol.com>
merced, Kalifornicateya, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 07:51:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.79)


TO ALL:

HAVE A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS!

AND MAY THE NEW CENTURY FIND BOTH YOU AND YOUR FAMILIES IN GOOD HEALTH AND WITH LOTSA NEAT TOYS TO PLAY WITH (BATTERIES NOT INCLUDED)
 

peteR and Family
 
 

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 13:47:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.43)


Recon,
As usual Pablitos right, just because your gun shoots well at 100 or 200 doesn't mean it will shoot that load well on out to 500 or 700yds. I have had loads that shot under .5 at 100 and after 300 really started to open up and a load that shot .7s at 100 stayed nice and tight all the way to 1000yds. The other thing is once you start shooting past 600yds strange things happen to your bullets!! Seriously though everything you do has an effect on the bullets impact. The wind the mirage even the slightest miscure at the gun is magnified 10 fold at longer ranges. The first time I tried shooting at 1000yds I needed a piece of cardboard the size of a suburban to see what I was doing wrong. I learned that you need to really concentrate on all the little things and "Really"pay attention to your basic shooting skills. Hope this helps, just PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE and it will come!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 14:17:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)
I have a set of Leupold QRW rings, I am trying to adjust them so that when locked the levers will both point the same direction. The levers themselves lock at a different point, even when placed on the same mounting area. What is the proper method to clean a Scope lens, what type of supplies do you need ? I keep a camera brush and lens tissue in a plastice case in my Eagle stock pouch is this the best way?
R Gilley <rgilley@br-inc.com>
USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 15:00:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.86.84.34)
CDC...

If you can handle the green, the Leupold 25x50 Mildot from Premier (with the Alice case), and the Steiner 8x30 bins w/mils, is a very good way to go... but together they will be about $1150.
Don't bother with mini-bins... they are all useless. If you need something smaller than the Steiner 8x30's, get a good monocular.

Jeff...
I would disagree with B.Rogers on the WD-40 thing, only because his warning didn't go far enough... it doesn't have to be cold.
Back in the 60's I carried a Browning HP, inside the belt (light leather sheath for a holster), and to keep it from rusting, I spritzed it with WD-40 every so often. WD advertised it as a gun lube at the time! (But not anymore!)
A bunch of us were at the Lyman range, and I took out the Browning and "Laid down fire" on a target, only to hear a faint "click"... and this was in August! I stripped down the gun, only to find everything in it covered with a sticky brown goo that was like dried brown molasses. The stuff is death on a working gun... if you use it for long term storage, you will have to clean it out... a soaking with mineral spirits over night will do it. Don't let it build up.
I have switched to CLP, and like it.

Recon... the same thing applies to spotting scopes. On those days when the mirage is so bad that you can't see your groups at even 100 yds, put a cover over the lens so there is only 3/4" to 1" opening, and it will clear up a lot.

Pablito
 
 
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 15:18:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.82)


Remington PSS no longer sold to civilians. Several dealers have advised me that Remington PSS models will no longer be sold except on department letterhead due to a policy change with Remington.

Incredibly unfairm to us civilians who enjoy a quality target rifle~

Robert
Robert S. Tschiemer <RTschiemer@aol.com>
Conway, AR, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 16:09:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.206.197)


I've had a set of Zeiss 10x minis since...oh, long-time. High power and narrow field of vision made them useless to me at first. They surely took some getting used to, but now they go places my compact and full-sized ones don't.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a poor but penniless sniper of our acquaintance for a servicable set of 8X binos for $300+/-?
 

CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 16:23:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.237.33)


WD 40: I received 3 mac rpb semi autos in the shop that had been "stored" for several years in WD40 by the owner on the premise that i would protect them. All 3 guns, which had a market value of in excess of $1000 each and had been virtually unfired, were heavily pitted and covered with rust.

I refinished the after sandblasting them but the pitting and damage is already done.

Never use WD 40 instead of oil for storage!

Robert S. Tschiemer
John Norrell Arms, Inc.
Robert S. Tschiemer <rtschiemer@aol.com>
conway, AR, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 16:24:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.188)


Pablito is right I did not go far enough all I said was....
"It is not an oil. Don't use it that way." I should have repeated that about 40 times. Trouble comes in when other substances get to combining witht he wd-40 like powder residue or external contaminants.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 16:28:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

Mista Gooch,

A SUPERLATIVE(Bold & Underlined)job on the articles in the latest issue of T-S. :-)
 

Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 17:34:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.42)


Robert; your quite right also. WD-40 is a rust wipe actually. You wipe it down to remove rust that is occuring. Store it with WD-40 and it will evaporate and let you down.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 17:56:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
CDC...

Go to these two sites... Steiner 8x30's (no mil graticule), for about $220... beau-damn-datious glass for the price of Honk Kong junk.

http://store.yahoo.com/eagleoptics/stein8xmilbi.html
http://store.yahoo.com/eagleoptics/steinpred8xp.html

Avoid the "Safari" model... The "Gooch" will spot you because of the bright red lens coating, and you will get you busted on a stalk.

The company (Eagle optics) is rightious, and has some of the best prices around. Got my $800 20x80 (you wanna' talk BIG!) bins for $365...

Pablito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 18:01:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.52)


Best buy in binos, for an 8x32 model, that meets/exceeds U.S. mil-spec requirements, and has fully multicoated optics and quality construction throughout, including neat lens caps front and back, are the Fujinon CF (formerly known as Hunter Series). These are a tremendously good bino for the money. You should be able to get them for perhaps $250. I suggest Tri-State Camera, which advertises in the back of the mainstream photography mags, for one source.

Waterproof, everything proof. Fujinon 8x32. Trust me on this.

But, and isn't there always a big butt, if you want the BEST bino there is, at any price, then check the Nikon Venturer LX. It is rated as the reference standard by one of the foremost writers/experts in the optical products world. Okay, so they have a dealer price of $820 or thereabouts, but compared to some brands, that's a bargain!! (and for further info on getting these at "dealer cost", email me and I will once again play the somewhat anonymous benefactor to my fellow shooting enthusiasts.)
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Radioactive, CA, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 19:19:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.14.52.225)


X54! Sounds like we had the same guy in our platoon. The universe always conspired to make sure I ended up on the same piece of ground he was on when it came time to crash in the woods. This is why we are still issued bayonets.

War is definitly for the young. I recall being able to lay down, any time of night, on rock or weed or briar, and fall instantly asleep. Now, at 37 I am lucky if I can sleep for three hours a night and everything uncomfortable wakes me. My own damn ARMs get in the way sometimes!

Remington and the PSS. If this information is true about civilian sales, fear not. You can still buy the VS or its variants. Same barreled action as the PSS. Stock is almost same except for contour. Sell VS stock or stick it on your BDL hunting rifle, get new HS precision PST12 stock, and you got a PSS again.

Mini-binos Suck. nuff said.

Well, ok, there are good ones...
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 19:57:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.91.146.34)


Does anybody have any experience with the Professional Ordiance Carbon-15 rifle - accuracy, reliability, how well they function? Also, what is the going price for a new rifle? Thanks!
Dean M. <dean.michalko@co.hennepin.mn.us>
Mpls., MN, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 21:08:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.73.55.10)
Bolt: there is some disagreement on this subject, but the 6.5x.284 is inside the .300 Win@1000yds. by about a minute. This is assuming you are shooting the 6.5 projectile (142 gr. Sierra,140 gr.Berger,140 gr. AMAX,139 gr. Lapua) at better than 2900 fps. My load (please follow all normal reloading precautions) of 53 gr. N165 gets the 142gr. sierra going at about 2920 fps here at Benning. I do know that some are shooting much hotter loads with N165, N160, RL22, and H4350. Please be careful. You can use a long or short action-though you cannot remove a loaded round in a short action without removing the bolt. O.A.L. with a "Match" reamer runs at about 3.010"...pretty freakin' long bullet (the 142 gr. VLD sierras are nearly as long as the .30 caliber 210 gr. berger bullets that we shoot out of our magnums). There are match reamers available from JGS, but make sure you are not getting a "tight necked" reamer. The O.D. on a loaded round of Win brass measures about .294". If you have a .293" necked gun you will probably be wearing the rifle if you don't neck turn. I don't know the drop offhand, but I can tell you that my elevation come-up from 300-600 yds is only 8MOA, and 600-1000 yds is 14 MOA, as opposed to 15.5-16 MOA for the 300 win (our 210's leave the muzzle at better than 2800fps). The caliber is very accurate, benchrest-type accurate. Brass can be made by running .284 Win through a 6.5x.284 FL sizing die and trimming to length. Competition neck-sizing and seating dies are available from Redding. Norma will have 6.5x.284 brass available, soon. As you can see, as with any wildcat, the 6.5x.284 is not a "dummy proof" caliber. Anyone interested in these technical long range type of questions should check out this website: http://guntalk.shooters.com/guntalk/Highpower Good luck, and good shooting.
AMUlongrange <emilp@mindspring.net>
Columbus, GA, USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 21:09:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.69.34.38)
Scott: Fiddle with the Zeiss minis a little. I prefer my Swarovski compacts, but there's always room for the minis.

CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, December 21, 1999 at 22:18:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.237.37)


Did you know that this website is "a website targeted specifically for anti-government extremists........."

If anyone has a membership to www.calibrepress.com, please check on an article entitled "Surviving a Traffic Stop Confrontation With An Extremist".
 

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 01:14:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.46.154)


I found a tactical shooting mailing list if anyone is interested.
To subscribe send email to:

Tactical-Shooting-subscribe@onelist.com

Ian <Sniper59@mail.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 02:27:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.136.80.204)


To Scot Re:Snoring, Tossing and turning, belching, breaking wind, etc.
Funny you should bring this up. I just finished W.E.B. Griffin's latest novel "In Danger's Path" and he touched on this very subject. According to the book, the U.S. Navy had a very effective way to deal with this problem during WW2. I believe it was called,
"MAN OVERBOARD!"
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 03:12:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.148.18)
When I dream about being a Anti-Government Extremest, I begin to snore and I get spittle all over my eye piece, if there are about a thousand good ways to clean a rifle barrel, surely there is a better way to clean expensive Optics, than what instructions come with the Scope ? I used a trick with my Dads snoring, when we went on hunting trips, I would tape a small rubber ball on his back, it wouldn't wake him up but it sure kept him from sleeping on his back.
Rockie Gilley <rgilley@br-inc.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 03:32:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.86.84.34)
Hello to all...
Below is the content of a e-mail sent to gooch@stormmountain.com about comments he made on barrel fluting. His comments were so well reasoned I thought that perhaps, after a year, some of you might wish to check out those postings and pick up on the thread, add some new information or comment on some of the points I made below...

Send to: gooch@stormmountain.com
Dear Sir:
While doing some late night research I ran across your comments about fluted barrels on the 'Sniper Country Duty Roster collective wisdom' message board dating from Nov.'98. I must say I agree with you about fluted factory barrels in specific and fluting in general. I have a SR25 Heavy Match by KAC. When I ordered this weapon many options including fluting were discussed. Mr.Knight asked to what use it would be put...competition or tactical. When I told him tactical he recommended the full match taper barrel SANS fluting. The SR25 uses 5R-CM barrels by Remington and is a superbly accurate rifle. It regularly delivers 5 shot 'cold barrel' groups of .600~.700"@100 yards. Yes, a semi-auto is more complicated and I am a long time boltgunner myself but, when you have that kind of accuracy and the capability of a follow up shot NO bolt gun can match it was an easy choice. The heavy SR with the Parker Hale bipod out front moves so little in recoil the shooter can maintain his sight picture and most often see the bullet impact on target. This ability would, I think, have been a great asset during a hostage incident, as related to me, that occurred a few years back in California. The SWAT Rifleman was using a bolt gun...a trued and restocked Rem.700 in 7.62/.308 Win. with a very good log book...and a fluted barrel. The range was that allowing for a brain stem shot. The major threat approached the buildings front plate glass door which he held ajar. The rifleman having got the green took his shot... just as the perp relaxed his hold causing the bullet to strike the plate glass at an angle. The bullet deflected but broke the glass sending shards of glass into the threats upper torso and face. On the video tape you can plainly see the stunned hostage taker hesitate in front of the broken glass door. If the rifleman had been trained on and had been using a SR25 as described above, instead of having to manually cycle his bolt, I believe he could have easily sent a lethal follow up shot downrange and ended this perps career. As it was however, by the time the rifleman jacked his bolt and reestablished his sight picture, the hostage taker recovered enough to duck back inside the building and commence shooting hostages. The entry team went in (at the shot) and eliminated the tangos but at much greater risk to themselves and the innocents inside.
My feelings are...if you can't handle a heavy tactical rifle ... either work on your upper body strength and get in shape...or...let someone else who can do the job. Lesson Learned...Yes, some few ounces of metal removed from a rifle barrel can be the difference between mission success or failure and lives lost or saved. Thanks for putting out the straight scoop.

Yours, SR25MK4
E-mail: SR25MK4@aol.com
Web Page at URL: http://members.delphi.com/SR25MK4
{Linked to forum/message board}

A Merry and Blessed Christ-mass to all! Have a Happy New Century too!
ASP <SR25MK4@aol.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 07:53:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.181)


Pablito, I attempted to check out the binos at
http://store.yahoo.com/eagleoptics/stein8xmilbi.html but I was prompted for a user name and a password. Any suggestions?
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
San Jose, CA, USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 08:26:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.192.208.6)
Michael ...

"http://store.yahoo.com/eagleoptics/stein8xmilbi.html but I was prompted for a user name and a password. Any suggestions?"

Very weird... I was there yesterday, when I pasted the URL on the SC post. I tried to get in just now, and got the same.

It's 6:30 here, and I'm on the way out, but I called them just now, and left a message on their machine... it is not a "closed site", so there may be a "Y2K" glitch :))

Their number is 800-289-1132... ask for Drew, and if you call, tell them about the password thingie!

'lito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 11:57:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.57)


The film of the incedent described above was on California news broadcasts. A few shooters, including a police trainer known to many of you, and myself, discussed it at the range the next day. Our question concerned the viability of two shooters firing shots as close to simultanneously as possible. His contention is that the first shot pulverizes the glass and allows the second to neutralize the goblin.

Does this work?

'lito; Worked yesterday, doesn't today. Odd.

CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 15:43:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.237.34)


To all,

Tried the http://store.yahoo.com/eagleoptics/steinpred8xp.html
site today at 8:45 PST and it worked. Things just get odder and odder.

Jerry
JerryK <JerryK-one@juno.com>
S., Cal, USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 16:43:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.35.99.200)


ASP; Please forgive me for alleging that your approach to the heavy rifle problem is too simplistic. "Get Stronger" is the message. "Get more maneuverable" is the need. No matter how strong you are and how good shape you are you may still need the weight reduction. Long barrels and heavy rifles constrict what you can do when an unknown situation arrives. Flutting is not the whole answer but what little you will loose in this "imagined accuracy loss" is more than made up in the leverage you gain against the weapon. The same is true with shortening the barrel. Why not use a .50 McMillen for everything.
Weight and length is still a tactical problem.
Bolt; surely you jest. There are no anti-government types on here.
"A country boy will survive!"

B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 16:45:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)


Bolt; is quite right we are listed under anti-law enforcement sites as well as a site that contains nothing but the "Bill of Rights!"
and other with state constitutions. This site is a lesson in paranoia
"Blue style"
here's an example... maybe this is inappropriate. But I'm a dumbass so maybe I can get by with it.
" Not long after the Newsline transmitted the razor blade alert, an officer from an East Coast department who had read the article reported that a fellow officer had encountered an individual who had pulled a single-edged razor blade from his mouth. The alert officer avoided injury, while the suspect was charged with carrying a concealed weapon. This represents merely on of the ways that the Newsline benefits its subscribers."
Yes... is there another way!
 

B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 17:03:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)


Hey guys been very busy and this is the first time in awhile I have had a chance to post.

ASP: SR25 is not the answer to police sniping. A bolt gun is still king. While your rifle is capable of good accuarcy it is not as consistent as a bolt gun with the same work/money into it and the bolt gun will shoot better longer. The incident you talk of is the "Good Guys" store in No. Sacramento. The solution to what happened here would have been to have two snipers fire at the same time. The first takes out the glass and the second shot takes out the bad guy. We never count on a second shot from our rifle to do the deed. Semi Auto sniper rifles came into the light because of the Olympics incident where several snipers tried to take on a larger number of bad guys and many folks died because of slow follow up shots. That is why the GSG9 has PSG1's now, in addition to standard bolt guns.

The SR25 has had mixed reviews. The initial Military rifles were loved by the shooters but the first big order that came in was not so good. This is not unusual when a small company is overloaded with a large order. I know several shooters shooting the SR25 in compp and they are not holding up as well as a M14. The Armalite AR10T is about the same in durability as a SR25. Bolt guns are the weapon of choice for 95% of all call outs. Every team should have semi capability but I think a tuned AR15 type is the way to go. The AR15's run forever and shoot one whole groups. A 69 grain bullet is good out to 300 yards and follow up shots are faster than any 308.

All you guys have happy holidays and a merry xmas.

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 17:47:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.200.47)


Reverse chronological order? Sorta like playing jeopardy..Is anyone currently running the AICS chassis system for the Rem. 700? Old timer stuck on conventional stocks but curious..Happy Holidays to all. Delta
Delta Whiskey <deltawhiskey00@hotmail.com>
Darkside of the, Blue Ridge Mtns., USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 19:45:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.95.89.150)
On the "Good Guys" incident in Sacramento: 1 sniper, no back-up (second shooter or spotter with second gun). How many times had the officer EVER shot through glass? Was there only one sniper? It's surprising how many big city police departments have a "Primary" set of snipers (or SWAT team assaulters) and an alternate roll, but it seems you never have enough guys when the situation is real. An autoloader (no matter what the make) may not have made a difference at all since the bad guy (an ethnic Vietnamese all of maybe 155 pounds) stepped back out of the sniper's line of sight after the plate glass blew. I would argue about the SR-25 (which some of my guys affectionately refer to as the "Piece o' Shit 6000." Why pick a gun that isn't consistent, or that breaks extractors every 300 rounds?
Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
Fairfax, VA, USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 19:45:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.214.17)
Thanks
Vic Kersey <vkersey@zoomnet.net>
Ashland, KY, USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 20:32:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.32.49.122)
CDC...
I was tought the two rifleman "Double tap" on glass, the rounds being seperated by about 1/2 to 3/4 of a second... we practiced on 1/4" plate, both straight on, and quartering, with cantalopes... Yuck!... and continued to teach it to the Yonkers, and Stamford PD's (back in the days of flint locks)... and it worked well, and still does, except that it takes a level of team work that is rarely developed in current city agency politics.

"Sinister" Dave Liwanag...
But how 'bout the same scenario with a better gas gun (M14/21)
If I were in East L.A. in '91, I'd rather have a M21 and a shoulder bag of mags, than the best bolt gun available... (I'll get incoming for that statement!).
For conflicts with unknown entities, it would pay to have the tools to handle many different unknowns. What did you do about the M19's, mine are for sale.

Michael...

I just tried
http://store.yahoo.com/eagleoptics/stein8xmilbi.html
... and it works fine... maybe an early Y2K glitch

Boltster Dude!!!...
Anti-government type on this site??? Really?? You think??
Naw... not here in the land of sheepish snipers :)

Pablito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 21:44:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.118)


Pablito,
You are right on the money. A good M21/25 and a stack of magazines makes you a high rate of fire fire support position. One operation two of my fellas were tasked to take out the crew of a quad-.50 AA gun. One chose his M40 because he knew anyone within 600 yards was his. The other picked an M25 because as the spotter he asked "Are you nuts? If you don't kill the gunner you're gonna bring a whole hell of a lot of scunnion down on us!" Thus works a sniper TEAM. (Kids, don't try this at home. A quad-50 (four M2 Brownings on an anti-aircraft mount) is nothing to play keeps against, especially with 7.62s across 600 yards of urban winds and drafts!.

One of my guys, Curt, dropped a guy in Panama with the good old M21. It's not necessarily the tool, it's the shooter.

I'm keeping the M19s. I think you can get what I said was a good deal! (Pay for half the Steiners).
Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
Fairfax, VA, USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 22:16:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.214.17)


Further on the extremist deal. This came from a poster on another site that I visit. There are two sources for this and am a little confused as to which came first.

One is the site address www.calibrepress.com which you can't get into unless you are LE and have a membership number.

The other is a site called http://www.militia-watchdog.org/trafstop.html

Specifically mentions SC as a website that caters to extremists. Pissed me off but since I can't get into calibrepress, I can't confirm.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 22:55:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.191.60)


"a website targeted specifically for anti-government extremists........." ???? Boltster, surely you jest!!! Who would ever think that this could possibly refer to this site?? BTW, just who did decide that we were so off the wall? It might be interesting to drop them a line and ask about their chain of logic, that is, if there is any logic to their 'decision'.

Oh well, back to trying to decide what to do about my Bushmaster and my Benelli. To register or to sell, that is the question. But wait . . . perchance to modify?? Ain't it great here in Kalifornistan??

Extracting.

George
 

George L. Derry <george@ebmud.com>
Oakland, Kalifornistan, USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 23:02:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.30.140.5)


This IS an extremist site. Extreme long range shootin, extreme accuracy, equipment, and for some it seems extreme sheep relations. ;)
Wyatt <raven1@anv.net>
USA - Wednesday, December 22, 1999 at 23:14:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.14.175.71)
Hello All,
I am in desperate need of the collective knowledge of the group here to find out whether the following really exists or is just a legend.
My Steyr SSG PIIK should arrive in a few weeks and I am hoping to find a mount that provides a wider range of scope mounting options than the Factory rings.
I have heard that there is a Weaver type scope base available for the SSG that mounts to the factory receiver dovetails and does not require any drilling and tapping of the receiver.
I was told this by the tech staff at IOR - Valdada optics. The person said that at the last S.O.F show he had sold scopes to a couple of people that had these mounts on their SSG's. He thought the mount was made by Aimtech, but he wasn't sure of that. I checked Aimtech's web site with no luck.
Does any one know if such a beast actually exists? If so please let me know where and what price range.
Thanks
Coop
 
 

Paul Cooper "Coop" <coopep@ticon.net>
Ft. Atkinson, WI, USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 00:57:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 156.46.99.198)


"Oh well, back to trying to decide what to do about my Bushmaster and my Benelli. To register or to sell, that is the question. But wait . . . perchance to modify?? Ain't it great here in Kalifornistan??"

If you register, you can expect it to be confiscated. Confiscation is the ONLY reason for registration!
X54 <fivefour@garlic.com>
PRC, USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 01:18:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.211.178.25)


For the love of God, I can't understand why this site was on any kind of anti-gov't, or anti-law enforcement shit list.

If any of these sexually frustrated little assholes had spent even 5 minutes browsing this site, they'd see the "A WARNING TO MILITANTS!" on the opening page on SC and here on the Roster.

Shit, if they'd just spend another 5 mins. surfing the posts on this Roster, they'd see how pro-gov't and pro-law enforcement this site really is.

As far as I'm concerned, they can kiss my grits!!

Sorry for the rant, but I just don't get it.

By the way, nice little thread going on here regarding the use of semi-auto sniper rifles.
 
 
 

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 02:18:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.56.82)


Not really sniper related, but being in California there is a great deal of confusion about the upcoming "Assualt Weapons Law." Would just the pistol grip on the Benelli Super 90 make it an "evil" weapon? Springfield Armory is also marketing a new "muzzle brake" that will allow your M1A to comply with the new CA ban. Any thoughhts?
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
San Jose, CA, USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 03:00:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.192.208.6)
Im having some considerationsd and problems im hopeing the combined wisdom of your readers can fix. I've grown up mostly right handed with tendicies toward ambidexterity. I shoot pistols right handed, but when it comes to shooting rifles, being left eye dominant, I havent had much of choice in shooting anything other then left handed.
My concern is, how will this affect my shooting? As most left handed shooters go, I pull a little right. Is there a way to conquer left eye dominance? If anyone has any suggestions, Im more then willing to listen.
Mike McCollough <Mccoll@erols.com>
Frederick, MD, USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 04:32:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.172.7.13)
Jeff Babineau...

Hey Jeff... what happened to that Canadian "Beaver" brew you were advertising?? Jeeze, I could use a case or two of "Beaver" about now!... Maybe three or four...

... it's not that anyone has really read, or not read this site... it's that this site is one of many that don't support the common "cause" (what ever that means)... and if you don't support the cause, you must be an enemy!

This site is right down the middle of America's backbone... there are law emforcement, ex-Law enforcement... active, and ex-active (FAGs... (Former Action Guys) military types... and Federal Law Enforcement types... Fed Marshals... ex CIA... you name it... they are here.
This is not the site of the "Timothy McVey" types...

If anybody wanted to get a group of plain "mainstream" Americans... this is the place... (With the exception of "Master Kung Foo Fighter" and his brother "Master Sniper"...)

Boltster, Dude... I checked out that site, and every group in the world that isn't socialista is on their shit list!!!

With the exception of the KKK, and 3 or 4 others, I'd be proud to belong to 90% of them, and I'm not even an "activist!!".
They even have a "First Amendment" group on their poop list...
... What ever happened to ... "I may not like what you say, but I'll fight for your right to say it" crowd that was the backbone of American civil rights in the 50's and 60's...???

Even the New York "Jews for Guns" is on their shit list... how can the KKK and "Jews for anything" be on the same list... these guys are really lost puppies!!!!!

Man... there is a Grand Canyon running through this country that is going to be the death of all of us... no matter what your politics!

'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 05:01:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.45)


'lito: As you can well imagine the demand for "Beaver Brew" has been extremely high. Rumors are that even your own President has an addiction to the product.

I stopped advertising for a very important reason.I suddenly realized that with Y2K coming, I'd best hord some away for myself as emergency rations in my "Beaver Bag". Yup, that's right. When the fur hits the fan, I'll just grab my beaver and head to the hills!

I've been slowly weening myself off the brew in anticipation of not receiving my normal 3 pints a day.Under all the stress of Y2K, I wouldn't want to be suffering from any kind of withdrawl on top of everything else.

'lito, I hope you have your "Beaver Bag" well equipped. If not, perhaps I could spare some for you.
 
 
 

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada...Sorry! we're all out of Beaver Light right now until after the New Year! - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 13:24:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.222.48.30)


Now it’s Sparky the Militia watchdog?
Hey, my grandma’s dog is named Sparky. When he gets excited he vomits all over her house. Strangely this also happens around Christmas and New Year so go figure.
There is a picture of a little girl on the web site holding an American flag and a gun. I don’t know if the operators of the site think this is a good or bad thing. It does appear the girl has been correctly instructed in how to hold the weapon (Finger not on the trigger).

Can we get back to discussing sniping and not worry about whom is worrying about us?

I am sure the Beaver Brew is good stuff but I like concentrated alcoholic beverages in a bug out bag.

Give me the M1A over a bolt gun any day.

Y’all have a safe and happy Christmas.
 

Michael <mikewood_@excite.com>
USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 15:58:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.163.248.80)


To ALL,
I just wanted to wish all my fellow "Militant" Malcontents a merry Christmas and a Happy New Year and look forward to being associated with such a bunch next year.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 17:13:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)
To:delta whiskey.Re:AICS Rem 700 stock.Just picked 1 up,after the mild case of sticker shock subsided.just had to play with the new toy.Being a stock traditionalist myself,I must say I was extremely surprised.It does take a little getting used to,but overall a wise choice.Even the missus likes it.If it passes muster with her,it aint all that bad. Hope everyone has good christmas,and gets plenty of nifty new gadgets.
Tony W. <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 17:27:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.1.149)
Speaking of AR15s...

A buddy has one he wants to sell and asked me about its value. I want to give the guy good information so can anyone drop me a line and let me know what they have observed in this arena?

The rifle is built on an Eagle Arms lower. Serial 18XX or 8XXX or something. Real low anyway. We built it way back in the mid 1980s. In 1989 or 91(?) we installed a brand spanking new complete Eagle upper with a match grade 1:9 twist (chromemoly)H-Bar. Since that time the thing was probably shot all of 150 to 200 rounds. It is basically a "like new" pre-ban. It even had what Eagle at that time claimed was a match trigger group, which just meant it was mated parts with a good pull. I know pre-bans demand high prices and since this one is so perfect I want to make sure he gets what it is worth, or at least close to it. Opinions are welcome.

Back then if you wanted to compete, Eagle was the only way to go. Unfortunately for him, he got the rifle but never got out to compete!
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 18:13:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.91.146.35)


0..
Dustin Barilow <fattyd2147@hotmail.com>
twentyninw palmc , ca, USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 18:28:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.171.177.61)
I am trying to decide between a Rem VS or a VS-SF in .308. Will the SS barrel stay accurate longer. Is there any benifit to SS barrels over 4140? I will be shooting paper and jackrabbits patiently. I doubt I will wear out the barrel before I get bored with the rifle. Does stainless have any long term accuracy benifits?
Jim <Jim@inrec.com>
CA, USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 18:34:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.214.164.138)

Michael, Dog vomit, It's not just for breakfast anymore.

All the talk about beavers, and nothing from the beaver state yet?
No kidding, there's one on the flag. Further proof? Tonya Harding.

Merry Christmas to all.

Anyone have suggestions for an informal shoot on a range with 100,
200,300,& 600 yard lines? I would like to try and put something together at my gun club this spring. Thanks in advance.

Jim <broonsma@prodigy.net>
Portland, Or, USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 19:10:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.133.200)


This is a great site! I've been reading the duty roster for about a month and have picked up alot of information.

I have read the information on cleaning barrels. No one has mentioned using the Foul Out System by Outers. Is it a good system or is it best not used on rifles if precision accuracy is needed? Will the cleaning process somehow damage the barrel or crown?

I have a brand new 700P waiting to be cleaned and broken in. I do'nt want to screw the barrel up.

This site is certainly not of any type needed to be put on a watch list.

Thanks for any input.

Merry Christmas to all.

Eric
eric <ethomson@n2mail.com>
WI, USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 20:33:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.250.163.42)


The H&K21 belt fed MG is in!! I'm in love again! what a work of art. Damn thing groups 1-1/2 in. at 100 yards. And that is with surplus L2A2 British ammo. The three shot burst feature works great, but the stock bipod is a bit flimsy. We also got the new UMP and MP's in .40s&w and 10mm. The 10 mm MP seems to shoot the best as far as accuracy goes but I like the UMP the best because it is the right caliber. It is lighter than the MP's and folding stock is as good as the full stock on an MP and better than the collapsable MP stocks.

I really like the barrel quick change feature on the 21. It changes from belt to box in about 2 min. easy as pie. But the damn accuracy of the thing is amazing.

Check out the store web site at www.gun-fun.com and check out our inventory. We have some PSS's in stock in .308 and .300Win Mag. Better hurry if you want one, they go fast.

Happy Holidays all!
Cory Wilson <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Panama, FL, USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 21:42:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 164.51.81.42)


Mike McCollough, re left eye dominance. I have worn glasses for 30 years due to a problem with my right eye at birth. My left eye is normal and like yours is dominant. I found this out many years ago when I was learning to shoot that i could not hit the broad side of a barn with a shotgun using my right eye. I am also right handed and shoot handguns right handed. I learned to shoot from my left shoulder and my dominant left eye and it is no handicap. I dont think you can "conquer" this nor do i beleive this is a problem , simply adapt to a left handed shooting style, there are lots of southpaws here. You may not find as many left handed rifles out there as you would like but they are out there if you want a rifle that fits you. I have bolt rifles in both left and right hand and enjoy them both. for me its about accuracy and my right handed rifles shoot just as good from the left shoulder. Finally, I have seen some off set scope mounts that are supposed to allow you to shoulder on the right side and put the scope on the left eye, they look odd and never apealed to me I like my scopes over the bore and close as possible. My advice is to not fight it, its not a handicap merely an ajustment.
cgates <cegates@gateway.net>
Sunny , Florida, USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 23:05:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.10.27.138)
Just wanted to pop in and wish you all a Merry Christmas. I hope you each have something warm to eat and the love of family surrounding you. For those in the service of this great nation, thank you, and Merry Christmas.

Old Dog
Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
ice, cold, USA - Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 23:23:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.16.162.10)


Guys! Just got this thing working again (I think, hopefully) and can get on the site. Man, I sure do miss out. Youse guys start talking M1A's, and I miss it! Drag. To that end - what Dave and 'Lito were talking, i.e. lots-o-mags, let me tell you what I do. First off, I'm fatter than I was at 18 (imagine!). Used to wear a small ammo belt. Take the belt and make a bando out of it jammed full with M14 double mag pouches. Mine holds 10 pouches, 20 mags. Now this is a hefty proposition, especially in addition to the 100 rounds I usually carry, but if I'm going somewhere to set up a heavy fire position, that's what I'm-a-takin!

Michael: welcome to the choir singing the praises of the M1A! Let the voices ring.

As for Anti-guvmint site, I guess if you read that as a "anti pro-personal disarmament" site, I can beleive it. Those of us who have taken an oath to defend the country and uphold the constitution meant it. Any list that JPFO is on, I'm proud to be included on. The hopolophobes are running amok, but to appease them, I am hereby not going to read anymore of the postings from you anti-law enforcement peace officers :-)

By the way, I think my E-mail is also freshly untorqued. Please drop me a line or two to test it out, and if there are any mac experts out there, that goes double for you!

Jeff: What kind of hopps and malt do I need to make some "beaver brew"? :-)

Merry Christmas and a safe new years you guys, proud to be associated with you.

Militia militia milita
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 00:29:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.155)


Sincerest Holiday Greetings to all active duty members of armed forces everywhere!

I remember when, as a US Marine, I spent Christmas, 1982, in Okinawa. I can say that, despite being surrounded by literally thousands of fellow marines, it was the single most lonesome time of my life. During that time, I thought a great deal about my family and friends who were home enjoying the wonder of the season while I served "in a distant land". At the time, I felt quite unappreciated.

Today, as I prepare to enjoy another magical Christmas season, I am reminded of how it felt to be so far away. It gives me great comfort to know that I enjoy the freedom to celebrate this occasion as I see fit because of the hardship and sacrifice faced by everyone who wears a military uniform today. This sacrifice transcends national boundaries at this time of year. Your dedication to peace and freedom is an investment with dividends beyond comprehension.

Someone once said, "To those who defend it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never taste." Well, I've tasted it and I recognize that divine flavor again today. I'll sleep well tonight knowing that my family and I are safe in your hands.

So, to every one of you who serves far from home, I say, Thank You! Your efforts and sacrifices are not unappreciated. Merry Christmas to all of you!

God Bless You All!

Semper Fidelis,

Roger

Roger E. Lays <rlays@aol.com>
PA, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 01:40:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.200.42)


That "muzzle brake" for the M1A is aprox. 85 bones. It also is not reamed as large as a NM flash suppressor. This is because the effectiveness is reduced if reamed as large. (According to Springfield Armory).

Merry Christmas to all and may you all have a Happy New Year. Especially our uniformed brethren.
And all of you... stay safe out there.
Spud,
Out
dennis <usmcspud@aol.com>
merced, kalisocialistfornia, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 02:46:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.188)


Bolt,
Late reply ref your 22-12 posting.
I have not seen the calibre press "extremist" article yet. However, as an "LE" sniper, I have subscribed so that I might contact the author of said article and editor and throw in my $0.02 if the article does indeed color "us" in a negative light.

The other snipers on my department's team regularly discuss and occasionally chuckle over many of the comments, suggestions and opinions we read here. This is one of the best sources of information and food for thought that we develop training from. We're extremists. When we're behind the scope, we aim for extreme accuracy, sub moa.

Socially, I suppose we're extremists too. Dangded right. We expect people to behave in a civil fashion and to afford each other the same respect and coutesies that that they DEMAND of us.

Ok, off my soapbox.
For you Canucks, best Beaver Brew I know of is in Sault St. Marie at Studio 10.
Good Holidays to all, uniformed or not.

Sniper, Sheriff Deputy, extremist?
DB
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
Kenosha, WI, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 03:10:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.7.27.149)


Subversive? Crap no one has ever called me that before. My moto used to be, and what I always told the Hostage negotiators in humor, was just get him to the window. Only kidding dont flame me. Its a joke.

As to Caliber Press, just a personal opinion, but it is for New Guys and Geeks. They are just out to make money. Kinda a Star Newspaper for cops. Bunch of crap. They are doing exatcly what I have told a few of you not to do. Juge with limited knowledge. Now I have meet many of you and I dont find you extreme. Just guys that stand up for what they beieve in. We used to call you Americans. I am not slagging the guys from other countries I am only dealing with what some one from my country has said. No one that has met Pat, Bruce Old Dawg, Bruce Robinson MilDot Master, Dep. Dave, LeMay, Boucher, Mike Sheehan, Jerry Rice, Pete, Pablito, Ken, Tony, Rod, Gooch, or any of the ones I have forgotten in my cant remember s.. state, anything but great guys.

As to Canadian Beer, great stuff, but not for beginners.

Merry Christmas my friends

Undude/UnMilitant/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 05:08:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.39)


To All,
In keeping with the radical nature of this web site, here is a link to a great Christmas song, "A Tactical Shooter's Christmas" It's been around for a while, but some of you have not seen it.

http://www.jouster.com/xmas/shooters.html
 
 

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 06:02:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.148.19)


Mike McCollough, ref. left eye dominance; Don't worry about it, it doesn't matter which eye is dominant. I have been shooting rifles, shotguns,and pistols for the last 29 years right handed. I didn't know that I was left eye dominant until 12 years ago when I joined the Police Department. For 10 years in the Army shooting the M16 right handed I qualified expert more times than not, without knowing I was left eye dominant. I had been a Cop for 7 years when an instructor told me that I would never shoot for crap right handed if I was left eye dominant....dang, then how in the hell had I been shooting in the top 20 officers of a 1250 man department for all of those 7 years, Normally shooting a 100%, but occasionally cheesing up and dropping 1 round into the 7 ring for a 99.6%. He didn't know jack. The last 6 years have been been as a full time SWAT/Sniper...shooting right handed. I don't worry about which eye thinks it wants to lead. The eye behind the open sights or scope is the one that gets the job done. I regularly train shooting both left handed and right handed (a JTF6 Marine Scout/Sniper Instructor taught me the importance of that) so I can use either eye as need be. Just shoot the way you are most comfortable, be it left or right handed.
De Oppresso Liber
Frank
Frank Erhart <HARTO4@aol.com>
Fort Worth, Texas, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 07:22:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.168)
All,
Merry Christmas and a Safe New Year!

I just received my RockChucker, what are the suggested Dies for .308?
Looking for quality and value... (imposible?)

Want to load Hornady A-Maxs with Varget if I can get some local.

Please Email any "Pet" loads as I am new to reloading for accuracy.

Thanks in advance,

buk
buk <bukowski@ipa.net>
LittleRock, AR, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 12:42:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.12.93.79)


Mike McCollough and Frank Erhart...

Mike, listen to Frank when he says "Left eye dominance; Don't worry about it!"

I'm left eye dominant, and aim pistols with my left eye, and rifles with my right eye, and do fine.

In fact, both of you might turn that left eye thing into an advantage...
... Use the "Americans with disabilities act". Hell man it's one of the most powerful tools you can have.
Companies have had to replace all their elevators because one "vertically challenged" guy couldn't reach the buttons.
("vertically challenged" = short people, for those of you in Rio Linda)

So... go to your heads of your departments, and ask for the relevant federal papers, because you're suffering from a severe disability of being "Right eye challenged", and require intensive special training to overcome your special "disability".

Ask for 30,000 rounds of .308 or .223 per year, and 30 hours of paid range time per month, at a range that is "Specially equipped" to handle your "handicap" (1000 yards!!), and free transportation to and from the range. Got it?

Hell, the liberals do it all the time. It's about time we got a shot at all that tax money. (I know... it's a pun!)

And to the rest of you bums. LE, and active military, retired, and "Fags" (Former Action Guys)...
and to those "Raggedy-assed, disorganized citizens" out there that think the Constitution is a political philosophy to live by, and not a museum piece...
...and even to you, Partison, change your name and come on back, nobody ever really leaves Sniper Country!

Happy holidays, and the best of the New Year (and keep your "Go kit" handy)

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Still waitin' for some of that north country "Light Beaver", in the pathetic state of Connecticut!, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 13:08:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.59)


Hello,

Happy holidays all! Fist time poster, long time SC lurker, and much wiser for it.

I suppose this is directed toward Pablito, but will welcome input from any knowledgeable sources. I have used the formerly posted article "Remington Trigger Adjustments" 4 times with great success (hope to see the rewrite soon) and was wondering, is it necessary to back out all the adjusting screws before adjustment, or say if you are happy with the over-travel setting, can you just tweak the spring tension and engagement screws and call it good? As always, safety is my prime concern, with a 3 1/2 lb pull a distant second!

I've squeezed many a 6-8 lb trigger and hit what I was aiming at, but why deal with the problem when you can eliminate it!
 
 
 

bullpup <blackstratguy@excite.com>
Rochester, NH, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 13:54:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.6.136.80)


Bullpup...

I pulled the article because there was a minor glitch, which everybody just went past, and had no problem with, but one person pointed it out.

The re-write will include pictures (for those that live in Rio Linda), and a "Stage 2" overhaul, with conversions of the old safty to the new style, plus polishing the contact points (not filing!!)

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 15:31:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.26)


MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL OF YOU AND YOURS!
Bruce E <bgenlvtex@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 16:23:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.194.183)
Sounds great Pablito! Thanks to you and all the others for their e-mail replies, and thanks for the rewrite info.
bullpup <blackstratguy@excite.com>
Rochester, NH, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 16:35:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.6.138.195)
BUK- Lots of guys on here more qualified than I to tell you what kind of dies to get (some interdependent factors involved too, as in what your exact goal is and how much you are willing to dote on your handloads). My comment would be that you have purchased the one and only RCBS product you should. Most of their products I have used over the years, other than the presses, I have found to be kind of geared towards mass sales to Joe Everyshooter, not well thought out and well made enough for the more (this'll sound stuffy!!) sophistacated or high-volume shooter. But then I started getting away from their products a long time ago and they may have added or improved some things that would prove me wrong. I believe it is RCBS that is making a "no trim" die that has a step in it that catches the case mouth and scrunches it down as you resize, preventing the case from stretching. Maybe some of you other guys can comment on their worth-- sounds interesting to me if the rest of the die is any good because even though I have the ultimate go-fast method for trimming cases (sidewheeling in a surface grinder), it's still a pain in the glutious maximus.
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
xxx, MI, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 17:04:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.136.179)
To our many friends, especially our men and women in uniform, may the holidays find you SAFE, SECURE and with those you can share these special days with. We,the Staff of Sniper Country, wish you the Happiest of Holidays and the Best of the New Millenium!

Lets be careful out there!

God Bless and Keep You!

Sniper Country Staff:
Marius, Scott, Pete, Garry
 
 

Marius/Scott/Pete/Garry <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
Many places, around the, World - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 17:55:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.245.243.117)


To Ned, and any reloading types (okay, everybody): RCBS makes some good gear - not just the Rockchucker. Their bench mounted priming tool is a terrific unit. Has feel, speed, and you won't get blisters on your thumb and index finger like you will after squeezing hell out of a certain hand-held tool. Their case trimmer with the paddle handle is WAY faster than any other non-power trimmer. Their dies are fine, and their customer service is pretty good too.

However, IMHO, the smart money for rifle dies goes to Lee (yes, lowly Lee) for their Neck-Collet Sizer die set. This die is a keeper, just be sure not to have the die down so far that you make "accordions" out of some cases. No lube required, and saving time is one of the keys to productive, reasonable, reloading.

My bench features lots of "colors". An orange press, lots of green stuff, some red stuff, and a smattering of blue. Problem is that most stores don't have a wide selection, and the catalog reps often don't use what they sell. That's why you have us, and our half baked opinions, with some facts thrown in for flavor.

One last tip: balance-beam scales are peachy for checking weights, or to use for throwing light powder charges that you trickle up to the mark. But for actually weighing stuff, like cases, bullets, and cartridges, you want an electronic scale. It is a much faster tool.
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Radioactive, CA, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 18:37:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.162.49.183)


I'm a thinkin that those who respect the Bill of Rights and the Constitution of the United States and love the Freedom that it
represents and Believe that all men are Equal have nothing to fear from anyone on this Web Page anytime soon.
Merry Christmas from the Great Plains!
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 18:38:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Merry Christmas Rosterfarians! Thanks to those who have served and those serving. Hope Santa's sled is on the ready deck and loaded with goodies from Remington, Leupold, Blackhawk, Federal, Glock, etc. for all. Be safe.
David Kiser <kiser403@mailcity.com>
NC, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 19:44:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.79.88.144)
Does anyone know how to adjust the trigger of a Winchester model 70. It came from the factory with a 5 pound trigger but I would like it at 3 pounds so it will be the same as my PSS. Is this something that should be attempted or should I leave it to my gunsmith?
C.R. Stoddard <stoddard@poncacity.net>
P.C., Okla, USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 19:58:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.76.243.222)
You think you're a good shoot? Well then try ELF BOWLING for a real test of skill.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 21:32:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.190.203)
Woops, here's the site:

http://www.nstorm.com/games/elfbowl.cfm

Or, just click on 'Bolt' and it will go to the address.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 21:36:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.190.203)


C.R. Stoddard...

On the M70 trigger... it's easy. There's a slotted screw inder spring tension, with two small nuts holding the adjustment (one nut is a lock so the other won't work loose) losten the nuts, adjust the screw, and retighten the nuts. You might put a drop of "Blue" loctite on it if you want.

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, December 24, 1999 at 22:03:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.130)


To All:

I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, and a New Year that is Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous for you and yours.

I'd like to express my thanks to all of you who serve to keep us all safe, at the risk of your own lives and at the cost of personal sacrifices on your part and the part of your families. Military, Law Enforcement, Firefighters, EMT's, Search and Rescue........all of you who are prepared to risk it all for their fellow man.

I also want to express my gratitude for having been blessed with a great number of new friends this year. You know who you are, and why I'm using the Duty Roster to voice these thanks.

May God bless you all, and keep you and freedom safe.
 

Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Saturday, December 25, 1999 at 00:30:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.30.122.52)


MERRY CHRISTMAS & HAPPY HOLIDAYS to all of you and especially to our men and women in uniform who are far from home and loved ones. Thank God for people like you.
Doc <docs@fidnet.com>
The quiet and peaceful Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, December 25, 1999 at 00:41:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.229.72.163)
WARNING! ELF BOWLING--

I got a warning that this game contains a virus that goes active.... not sure when, seems like maybe it was the 24th! Be advised! I get a lot of such warnings and have no idea as to the veracity of this one-- maybe some pissed off elves are just spreading a nasty rumor-- but it could be.

Leaving a double dose of cookies on the mantle, even though my own personal Santa is in beleaguered Venezuela this night... she got out alive and if I never get another Christmas gift I won't complain. This is a country with a history much like our own, of having the will to fight for freedom. Every child there knows well the trials and exploits of Simon Bolivar and the fight to throw off Spanish colonial rule. In Venezuela, I see a level of national pride and solidarity that for me, in the US, exists only in the stories that Dad tells of the WWII era, when Americans stuck together, working hard towards a common goal, and did not put themselves first. Tens of thousands in Venezuela are having the worst Christmas imagineable... you can find a place to help at www.vheadline.com. She scammed a chopper ride to the disaster area Thursday and was able to retrieve her passport and other documents, and my um, personal safety equipment, from our apartment, which was somehow not destroyed.
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
xx, MI, USA - Saturday, December 25, 1999 at 02:23:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.137.32)


On a 'trivial' theme, Elfbowling and Frogapult were reported to have a delayed virus set to activate on Christmas Day. These are FALSE. Enjoy them as you so desire.

On a serious theme, I spent 20 years in the service, several of them were not at home for Christmas. I wish/hope/pray for a very Merry Christmas, very Happy New Year and a peaceful, SAFE and FREE future to all of our service men and women, no matter what their service; be it Fireman, Policeman, EMT, Soldier, Sailor or Grunt. May you all be safe, warm and have a full tummy...

Peace, safety and freedom to us all.
 

Larry
Larry <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA - Saturday, December 25, 1999 at 03:30:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.167.131.96)


After years of using a Canjar set trigger, I had a local gunsmith install a Jewell HVR in my 700 VS. I am not impressed compared to the Canjar's clean break. Anybody have recommendations on how to adjust it (for a clean 2 1/2 to 3 pound break)? I guess right now I'd compare it to something like a Glock "Squeeze-through" break rather than the "Clean" break the Canjar had. Thanks.
Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
Fairfax, VA, USA - Saturday, December 25, 1999 at 03:59:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.214.17)
M70 triggers - In addition to adjusting as Pablito suggests, I have replaced the chevy suspension spring on the trigger with somewhat lighter springs form a spring assortment picked up at Harbor Freight. It had several springs the same size as the trigger return spring, but made of somewhat lighter wire. The position of the nuts control spring tension, and the screw controls overtravel. I have about 2-1/2 pound triggers on 4 M70's with this according to my RCBS trigger pull gauge, crude tho it might be.

Pat T
Pat T. <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Saturday, December 25, 1999 at 08:00:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)


All:

Viruses: Just a quick note/reminder to youn'z out there - if someone sends you an email that contains an attachment - hit that attachment with a virus scanner before you open it - unless you're absolutely sure it's safe. Most of the annoyances that are aimed at pc/mac users are in those little entertainment attachments or word documents. Make your virus scanner updates itself at least once a week or if news of a new virus emerges.

God Bless you all... and have a good Holiday season

Ken, Kim, & Brittney Hunter :):):)
Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Saturday, December 25, 1999 at 14:58:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.39)


All,

Can anybody tell what the BC of the Sierra 175 is? I was recently browsing the Army's digital libraries (23-10), and they have the BC of the old 173 grain M118 at .530, then I went over to Sierra's web sight and they have the BC of the 175 at .505, this doesn't make any sense to me as the 175 is a hair heavier, so it's BC should be little higher than the Military's 173. I should think. Maybe I'm wrong, if anyone wants to clear this up for me, I'd appreciate it.

Casey
Casey <caseyb@scs.unr.edu>
USA - Saturday, December 25, 1999 at 19:45:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.88.152.27)


Sierra .308 cal 175 HPBTMK BC is, according to their rifle reloading manual, .505 @ 2800 fps and above, .496 between 2800 and 1800 fps, .485 @ 1800 fps and below.

HTH,

SF
SF <SF11615@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, December 25, 1999 at 19:52:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.199.202)


At local gunshop that sold several Carbon 15 rifles about six months ago got two of them back. The tabs that connect the upper to the lower broke off. The weapon was reported to be in normal use when they broke. I looked at the broken parts and did not see any sign of abuse. The tabs broke at the takedown pins.

I just wanted to pass this on. The shop told me that they would be covered by warranty but who would want it back after it did that?

Steve <.@.>
USA - Sunday, December 26, 1999 at 00:08:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.130.4.100)


To all on the SC staff and those, who with their posts, have made this such a great site:
Have a very Merry Christmas. Have happy and safe holidays.

May God bless all of you and your families.
 

Also, Gooch, I got the Jan 2000 TS and read both articles re: the Mildot and Bruce's Mildot Master. Very well done, sir.

I'll have to re-read the first article, because, although I can't claim being a Marine (my loss); I certainly can count myself among the proud ranks of the neanderthal persuasion ;) Hey, I got the scar tissue on my knuckles to prove it!

Reading stuff like that makes me wish I could get out and shoot more.

Anyway, I hope everyone has a wonderful Christmas..

God bless,

Jeff A.
 

Jeff A. <d1k2l3@smyrnacable.net>
Smyrna, Ga, USA - Sunday, December 26, 1999 at 00:46:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.216.123.56)


To all,
I just pulled this out of the Misc. survivalism newsgroup. It looks pretty serious to me.

I have recently witnessed the following. It is VERY important that we
"patriots" keep true to the SALUTE pattern and monitor this threat!

Size of Enemy Force: 1 unit consisting of a what appeared to be a male
in some sort of armored open top vehichle. 9 draft animals pulling the
unit across my soverign airspace.

Activities of Enemy = Landed on rooftop. Leapt from unit which on
further examination appeared to be a sleigh with what appeared to be
deer (see Unit I.D.) Entered using a no-knock warrant (no warrant for
that matter). Repeled or otherwise decended down chimey bearing a large
bag, not doubt containing UN commands and NWO material as part of the
impending Y2K takeover. Suspect this is a test for when UN troops enter
my house to get my guns. Spoke some language, Finnish or Dutch. Was able
to make out "Kris Kringle" before I unloaded a full clip (that'll stop
the NWO bastard!) Before dying, his stomach looked like a bowl full of
jelly. Large black belt with buckle, long white beard also seen.

Location = My bunker. Location not to be revealed in this manner, since
communications are being monitored by Echelon.

Unit I.D. of uniforms/vehicles = Paramilitiary, possibly communist
(large useage of the color red). Possibly satanic, trying to stop the
impending return of the Lord. Vehicle appeared to be an old fashioned
"sleigh", no doubt a cover for the the armor and arsenal hidden
underneath. Vehicle was pulled by what appeared to be deer of some type,
not of the country (no doubt imported and trained at the secret UN bases
I keep hearing about).

Time and date = Approximately 2 AM, morning of 25 December 1999.

Equipment = Large bag, containing toys which were apparently to be used
to lull and bribe my kids into his One World Government plot. List of
children divided into "Good" and "Bad" found. GOOD apparently standing
for "Governed Over (by) One Dominion" a clear reference to the impending
takeover. BAD apparently standing for "Battling, Anti-NWO Destroyable".
8 previously mentioned "deer of foreign origin" killed for meat. 9th had
a glowing red nose, no doubt a beckon to the other members of his
invasion/occupation force of ZOG. Terminated with extreme prejudice.
Made tasty steak.

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Sunday, December 26, 1999 at 03:55:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.148.200)


Questiona about reticule on M22 binoculars:

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm wondering if anyone can give
me a capsule review, and/or TM/RM reference, for using
the range finding reticule on the M22 binoculars.

Thanks,

Bob
Bob <bucho@best.com>
USA - Sunday, December 26, 1999 at 05:50:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.24.240.165)


Just my 2 cents worth on the reverse Roster. I like it. Please continue to offer it. I don't have to wait as long for the new post to load.

I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.

The sun in coming up, got to go shooting now.

C.R. Stoddard <stoddard@poncacity.net>
P.C., Okla, USA - Sunday, December 26, 1999 at 13:04:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.76.243.89)


Steve,

I enjoyed your little story, but some concerned nut will think you actually shot Santa! Ater all THEY think anyone with a firearm is a criminal.

I hope everyone here had a Merry Christmas, and wish everyone a Happy and Prosperous New Year.
 
 

Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Sunday, December 26, 1999 at 18:37:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.84)


Just got through shooting my 700 with new AICS stock system.Loved the way it shoots,but it has the weirdest PING after the shot.ANY ideas of how to eliminate it?Shoots fantastic,but would not want to have to get used to it if at all possible.
Tony W. <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Monday, December 27, 1999 at 01:49:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.68)
Can anyone tell me where I can get the best price on a wiggy's sleeping bag? Mail order or internet.
John <cuzbone1@aol.com>
selma, nc, USA - Monday, December 27, 1999 at 02:37:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.74)
Steiner M-22 Bino reticle info:

TM 9-1240-403-12 & P JULY 1988
Horizontal and verticle reticle graduated in 10-mil increment unit markings (1 unit = 10 mils, 2 units = 20 mils,etc.).
In determining range, if an object fills one of the (10 mil) unit markings and is known to be 10 meters wide, the object is 1,000 meters away. Distance = Known size divided by # of MILS X 1,000.

I think the range scale is the same on M-22 glasses as well as the civiliam Military/Marine Steiners sold to public. Hope this helps!
Mark
mda <shawnabell@msn.com>
bbbbbBUFFALO, NY, USA - Monday, December 27, 1999 at 03:32:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.20.88.165)


Hello to all and Happy Holidays.

I am a long time lurker here and haven't posted in a while. Had to sell off my rifle and a couple pistols a while back. Felt more like castration really, I wouldn't suggest trying it. However, thanks to my loving wife I have a Hi-Power and a new PSS .308 to play with (Thanks Dad!)

With all that said, I began breaking in the rifle today. While my tennis elbow recovers from overuse of my Dewey rod, I was wondering if anyone here shooting a PSS could point me in the right direction for a good accuracy load. It took me two months to find one for my last rifle, I'd just like to jump-start the process, as my shooting time is rather limited these days. I plan on using 168 gr Sierra HPBT MATCH once the barrel is well broken in, for now I'll be plinking with my old .300 fodder of 180 and 190 grainers.

Also if anyone knows of a good gunsmith in the Houston area, I'm in need of a trigger job, please drop me a line and let me know.

Good luck to all. Have a safe and Happy Holiday wherever you may be!

Keep you powder dry!
R.Horne <Stiljade@msn.com>
Houston, Texas, USA - Monday, December 27, 1999 at 04:47:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.245.202.60)


Hey guys, I need some advice here.
On the 18th of this month I purchased a Remington PSS in .308 from a local dealer. I bought it new in the box with all the paper work and warranty stuff still in the sealed envelope.

Today after shooting I took it out of the stock to find that the bedding block has obviously been tampered with. It looks as if someone was "roughing it up" to get ready to bed it, and then changed their mind. About 75% of the front ring area(on the stock) and around the rear mounting hole is all tore up like someone went at it with a dremel tool. I know this is not normal.

Obviously I am pissed so what should I do first? Talk to Remington or the dealer?
Thanks
TR <BOLTGUNZRUL@aol.com>
Portland, OR, USA - Monday, December 27, 1999 at 05:20:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.198.151)


More questions about the M22's:

First, thanks to those who've responded. I should have guessed
that it was a mil scale.

Second, FM 32-10 and responses here indicate that the M22's
are made by Steiner, but I've seen M22's made by Fujinon as
well, complete with laser filters. Are the Fuji models newer
than the Steiner contract, or older?

Thanks!

Robert
Robert <bucho@best.com>
USA - Monday, December 27, 1999 at 08:49:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.24.240.233)


TR: If I were in your shoes I'd want to let the dealer know first hand about what is going on. Have you dealt with him/her before? Is the dealer reputable? Was the PSS actually in NEW condition? If so, perhaps he might be the guy to talk to since your displeasure is probably going to affect his business more so than Remington's.

I would notify Remington anyway, to make them aware of your problem. That way they are able to have your complaint on file if your problem is indeed Remington's fault.

Hope this helps.
Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada...Where I'm hording all of my Beaver Light 'til after Y2K ! - Monday, December 27, 1999 at 13:38:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.82.14)


Need some advice...

Picked up a Browning BAR hunting rifle chambered in 7 mm Mag for a song (Belgian manufacture, cherry condition, $150). The rifle appears to be lacking some type of internal clip. Could someone direct me to a source for said internal clip? What should it cost me?

I also have an old Leupold VariX scope I'd like to slap on this rifle. I have the scope and 1" rings from an old trade, but lack the correct base. Where would be the best place to purchase a standard leupold 1 piece base for this rifle, that would mate with my existing 1" rings and scope?

It's no sniper rifle, but I like the heft and balance of this firearm. It's my first 7mm, any and all comments on what to expect from this "mini-howitzer" would be appreciated

please email responses.

Jim
Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Monday, December 27, 1999 at 15:54:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.20.190.1)


Casey:

First, is the Tony Casey, my 4x4 wheeling buddy from down south?

On the M118 BC, I would hold that figure for the 173 grain projectile suspect. It have seen it many times but question how it was generated. Keeping in mind that technology has improved greatly in the last few years I would be willing to be that if the round was retested under current standards it would show a lower BC. I might be wrong. But I have my doubts on this one. Use the Sierra 175. They recently retested all the BC data under modern and realistic conditions and the figures now represent a very accurate estimate. Of course, it is STILL al voodoo to me!

As a side note, if you have ever used the Army or Marine wind charts for the M118 round, you will no doubt have noticed the errors found with in. Just goes to prove that even at the upper end of the military marksmenship spectrum, editorial error can creep in.

Again, I hope ALL of our readers and contributors have a great holiday week and a safe and happy holiday.

...except for that guy who plugged Santa...Ole Nick was supposed to deliver a shiney old M39 to me.

Scott Powers
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Monday, December 27, 1999 at 17:01:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.91.146.34)


Oh, and before I forget!!! The New SC T-shirts have arrived and those of you who have been patiently waiting shall not have to wait any longer. They shipped today. Still got a pile...ahem... ;-)

Scott

PS: spent the day AFTER Christmas on the range! Been a while. Took out a Finn M39 Sniper, a Finn MN91/30 and a Jerry 98k. Took some getting used to after shooting nothing but precision rifles for three years...but man, what a blast. The scoped Finn M39 surprised me. It actually shot into 1.3 moa with the better of the surplus crap I was using. Of course with the worst of it I was lucky to get minute of man. Fun day all in all. Wish you wuz there...
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Monday, December 27, 1999 at 17:09:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.91.146.34)


RE: AR-10T

Hello everyone. I have recently picked up a AR-10T with a Walther barrel. Unfortunatly, I can not seem to get any kind of information on this barrel. I have heard that there were only 100 made with this barrel. Does anyone have any information on this? What advantages does this barrel offer compared to the "standard" AR-10T barrel? Also, who makes the "standard" AR-10T barrel?

-mike
Mike <mp5pdw@hotmail.com>
Lost Angeles, CA, USA - Monday, December 27, 1999 at 20:00:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.178.159.116)


Scott:

BC´s

forget everything the manufacturers state and just take that BC value for what the projectile COULD do if it were brought into flight in the most perfect way possible.

I am not stating that it cant be done, but with the reloading materials we use and in firearms with chambers to SAMI or CIP standards,.... forget it.

I am in the middel of preparing data for a write up and all testing that I have done shows diffrent BC´s for, diffrent Ammo types with the same bullet,rifles, and even changes in BC in diffrent reloading dies.

t
 

Torsten <torsten.erning@t-online.de>
germany - Monday, December 27, 1999 at 21:27:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 212.185.248.117)


Can anybody tell me exactly what is and is not legal as far as "assualt rifles" go in California. A friend of mine, who lives in Ca, has a Mini-14 that is about 16 years old. It is box stock and has it's original 20 and 30 round mags. No after market do-dads. Definately pre-ban. Is it legal for him to posses in California? Does State big brother want it registered or what? It was bought in another state and moved there with him many years ago.

S McNally <oneshot@page.az.net>
AZ, USA - Monday, December 27, 1999 at 23:22:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 165.83.14.236)


Hope everyone had a great Christmas and all the slings arrived on time.

I promised when the dates for the New Mexico Classes were firmed up I would post here first so hear it goes: June5-9th 2000 Tactical/Sniper Rifle. June 10-11th Tactical Map Reading, June 12-16th Tactics and Techniques class. There will be several instructors James Jarrett, two Special Forces Instructors and me. Contact either James Jarrett or me for further details. These are going to be full on classes and you will put in full days. If you go and dont learn anything I'll eat a bug. Just like a car salesman

I've been getting over the Flu from hell. I am going to the range on Weds, no matter what. Rifles to shoot and scopes to zero.

Undude
 

MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 00:30:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.33)


Hi everyone,
I am a new poster to the page but have been advertising and Lurking about for about a year. I have a lot of experience with AR-10's, ecpecially the "T" model and perhaps I can be of some help.

Mike, I do not know about the Walther barrel special run. I am sure that Armalite is looking for alternatives to their "in house" barrels since they shoot no better than the 'A4s. Originally the "T" barrels were made by Mike Rock and were esentially R5 barrels like the Remington SR 25 barrels. I own two of these that are chrome moly steel. Both shoot .5 MOA if I do my part. I have set up other with the SS Armalit barrels and have not seen the accuracy of the Older barrels. Gunsmoke and Stewart Wilson build nice AR-10's but beprepared to spend $2,000 after you buy the rifle.

Hopefully the Walther will shoot like the older rifles do. Keep in mind that these rifles take almost 500 rounds before everything really settles in and works right. Mine have 845 and 515 rounds through them each and they really came into their own between 400 and 500 rounds. I used Blackhills moly to break them in, but I shoot Federal and BH and Handloads interchangably with excellent results.

I would like to know how your Walther barrel shoots, so please let me know good or bad. If you need M-14 mags converted drop me a line at hatherly@perceptionet.com.

Haqppy New Year to all
 

Gary H.
Gary H. <hatherly@perceptionet.com>
Southeast, Michigan, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 01:46:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.69.158.71)


Ran across this great quote from Winnie that I thought was very relevant:

"Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Winston Churchill

Carry on.
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
xx, MI, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 02:10:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.136.9)


Hey chums, encountered an interesting phenomenon ("thingie") while chrono'ing loads made identically except for type of die. Load 'A' made with RCBS neck sizer/seater dies, Load 'B' made with Lee Collet neck sizer/seater. All other steps, materials, and dimensions were identical. Load 'A' had average MV of 2732. Load 'B' had average MV of 2709. Now, that ain't a lot, but the thing is, I can feel the difference in neck tension when I seat the bullets. The RCBS neck sizer die results in more neck tension (if my hugely bulging biceps is any indication... okay, well I CAN feel the difference) than the Lee. Could this be the reason for the MV difference?
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Radioactive, CA, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 02:26:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.162.49.91)
I have a model 1917 Eddiestone, which I'm sure is junk to most, I'd like to put a scope on. Can this be done ?
Thanks
RW
RW <drifter@horizon.hit.net>
USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 03:35:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.252.164.27)
Lothar Walther Barrels:

I have a few of these on my fancy "bb gunz" and the accuracy is VERY good. I have heard a number of reports of poor QC as of late, but this has been hard to prove empirically, just rumblings of the accuracy Gurus trying for consistant 1/2 ctc (or better)at 50 yards for ten shots.

I would hope that an American company would use domestically produced tubes from one of the "names" : H-S, Pac-Nor, Krieger,
Obermeyer, etc. etc.

Chao!
 

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
SPRITZING SNOW IN, BY-GAWD WEST VIRGINNY, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 04:24:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.178)


Hello all, does anyone out there know where to get military spec. hardware (like buttons, zippers, etc...) and nylon material? I have some brain farts for some gear but don't know where to get the supplies to start making it.
Wolf <RockyRun@centurytel.net>
hickville, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 05:40:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.206.147.95)
For the women and guns section.... I landed one that the folks at our range get a kick out of: She started out with a freshly built and modified 10-22 and graduated to my AR-15 within a few days. She's never shot before and has learned how to safe, load, shoot, field strip and clean and detail clean the 10-22 and AR-15 as fast and efficient as can be expected. She does not like shooting the bigger bores yet but she keeps her concentration when she's on the ejection side of my AR-10. The only problem is that we can't get her off the range when it closes. She says they're not open late enough!
Brad <haddock@pacbell.net>
San Jose, CA, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 05:52:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.171.134.229)
I was just wondering about the viability and safety of using non-canister grade surplus military powder. My feeling is that is a risky proposition at best, both from the accuracy standpoint and one of safety. Has anyone here used surplus military powder? The price for this stuff is right for my shooting needs, problem is I don't want 24lbs of it sitting on my reloading bench if it is a waste of time.
Ralph Horne <Stiljade@msn.com>
Houston, TX, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 07:08:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.244.117.38)
PeteR: Thanks for the info on the AirGuns. Hopefully, Walther's barrel will shoot .308 Match as well as .177...

GaryH: Thanks for the info on the "other" AR-10T barrels. I am hoping that this gun will be able to shoot better than 1/2" @ 100 Yards. I have a Colt 6724 CAR-A3 Elite (24" SS Free Floated) that shoots a 1/2" @ 200 yards (5 shot) using HSM 55 gr. FMJ "Police" ammo at that...not even "specially formulated" match ammo...Not bad for a bone stock .223....so hopefully, this AR-10T will be able to, at the very least, shoot close to that...if not, you should see it up on the Emporium! :)

400-500 rounds just to break it in eh? Hmmmm, ok, who has Black Hills Moly .308 Match for cheap? I'll be needin' 1000 rounds. Sound like it'll take me a few months to break it in...

Speaking of ammo, anyone use "White Feather" ammo? Good, bad? Strangest thing, I've know a guy for several years now I just now found out that Carlos Hathcock is a relative of his! Too bad I didn't get to meet him...I would of love to just have shaken his hand.

One more thing (yes, I have a lot of time on my hands!), anyone have any experience with DSA's Match FALs? Do any shoot as well as or better than a AR-10T? How about SA M1A Super Match?

-mike
Mike <mp5pdw@hotmail.com>
LA, CA, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 12:22:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.178.158.41)


Hey there, gentlemen...
Let me start by saying that I'm the first to admit I'm almost totally alien to all this stuff. I'm 21, live in rural city Australia (but NOT a gun-totin' farmboy like most of the younguns out this way). We have a pretty wacky set of gun laws down here...if you can find them somewhere on the web, I recommend checking them out; It's the same set of rules that made thousands of Aussie men give up prized shooting heirlooms last year because they didn't conform. Beautiful guns were destroyed by the thousand. Anyway, enough of that.
What I really want to know is where to start. I have never shot a rifle before. Yeah, NEVER. Shotguns, a couple of times. Liked it, but felt like there could be more to it. That was a couple of years back. In the past year I have gained more and more of an interest in accuracy shooting. This site, some non-fiction stuff and the work of Stephen Hunter ("Point of Impact", "Black Light", "Time To Hunt") has played a big part. I'm not one of those type of kids that wants to get into shooting at things that breathe (I've read through your archives), but the thought of being able to hit an envelope-sized board at a thousand yards (I think it's about 8-900 metres...stupid metric system!!) really pushes my buttons.
My dad used to shoot a bit..he told me a good gun to start with would be a .22 Hornet or something similar. Can anybody give a total newbie some solid starting blocks? Thanks, and happy new Millenium!
Jimmy
Jimmy <jtway@ozemail.com.au>
Wagga Wagga, New South Wales, Australia - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 12:33:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 203.108.157.32)
Just picked up my new McBros 300 win mag with A4 stock, jewel trigger, fluted schneider barrel, vais brake, roguard and np3 finishes and all the other nice things that bring it up to 4k. The US Optics scope is being mounted as we speak so I need to work on some loads for this long up coming weekend. Can't think of a better way to bring in Y2k. The rounds used for testing were 168 sierra's loaded by arizona ammuntion. They painted a .34 group at 100 yds. I'm looking to work up 180 nosler BT, 190 or 210 berger VLDs and sierra 190 moly's using RE22 or H4831 in Fed cases w/215m primers. I also have some H1000 and Imr 7828 on hand that I can play with. Anyone have some suggestions for 300 win mag loads ? Thanks...
TonyY <ayackowski@rcn.com>
Iselin, NJ, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 13:59:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.97.88.100)
Ralph Horne...

"On the viability and safety of using non-canister grade surplus military powder. My feeling is that is a risky proposition at best, both from the accuracy standpoint and one of safety."

Not at all. There isn't any safety issue, unless you aren't safe using standard canister powders.
It is made in the same plants to the same standards as the "over the counter" powder!
The powder is fine, and no different than any other powder. If you shoot a lot, it can be a real saver... my .308 loading machine eats about $80 an hour in Varget.

Accuracy isn't determined by whether the powder was "canister" or "Non-canister"... if it matches the cartridge, it will do well. Like canister powder, some will give better results than others, but from a good gun, all the suitable powders will shoot well.

Bruce Hogdgon bought 50 tons of military surplus powder, repacked it in 1 pound boxes, and sold it out of an abandoned railroad car... and set the benchrest world on it's ear for 15 years... the begining of Ball-C.

All of the commercial match cartridges we love to brag about, is loaded with "non-canister" powders... we couldn't afford to shoot the stuff if it were loaded with standard canister powders.
For example... there are 3 accepted "non-canister" powders that Fed uses to load Federal "Gold Match", and the one they use, depends on what's available at the time.

Often, the commercial number is close to the canister number... WC750, and W748, and with a minor tweak, will deliver the same ballistics, and same accuracy as the expensive stuff.

Pablito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 15:26:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.86)


Got a problem with my Leupold mildot tactical scope. I had to give it a full turn of windage correction(to the right) in order to shoot straight. There was no wind at all. Scope is mounted on Badger Ordanance mount and using Mark IV rings. EVerything is real tight. COuld0something have slipped inside the scope to cause this ? I was thinking about contacting Leupold.

thanks

Andrew
Andrew Bielech <mysig@fast.net>
USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 15:54:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.92.18.58)


Pablito...

Thanks for the info on the surplus powders. I kinda needed a second opinion and as we speak I have some WC750 on the way here. Saves big $$'s. Now to finish breaking my rifle in on the good stuff...

Tony T...

I had great sucess with my .300 Win Mag last year, though the only bullet I can supply any reloading advice on is the Seirra 190. With H4831 my Ruger (gasp) grouped about .6 MOA. Powder charges were 70.3, using Win brass and Win primers. My "pet" load was using 70.3 grains VihtaVuori N165, same brass and primers. This load typically went for .4 MOA out to about 600 yards when I did my part. These are not MAX loads (only about 2850 fps)they are about 150 below MAX, but as always you will want to drop the charge by 3 or 4 grains to begin working them in your new rifle. I'm sure you know proper handloading procedure already, but it is always worth mentioning again. Hope this helps you out a little.
 

Ralph
Ralph Horne <Stiljade@msn.com>
Houston, TX, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 16:04:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.11.201.150)


Andy Bielech...

Before you call the nice ladies at Leupold...
There is a fair amount of slop in the screw holes on the bases. This slop can amount to 10 to 20 thou, maybe more. There are two sets of mounting holes, so the total misalignment can be 20 to over 40 thou. Each 1/1000th of offset is equal to 1" off center at 100 yds/mtrs.
So it's easy to be 20 inches off to one side, and need a full turn or more to "Zero".

To set the bases up straight, you will need a light plastic headed hammer (from any shooting supply house, if you don't already have one)... or a light tack hammer, and a small piece of wood, so you don't have to hit the steel bases with metal.

1 - Set the elevation and windage reticle in the center of their adjustments.

2 - Put only one screw in each base, or only one in each end of a one piece base.

3 - Tighten the screw only half tight, so it's very hard to move by hand, but it will move with a tap of the hammer.

4 - Tap both bases forward.

5 - Remove the bolt.

6 - Mount the scope on the bases, and look at something the bore, and through the scope.

7 - Tap the bases to align the bore image to the scope image. If the scope is pointing to the right, tap the right side of the front base, of the left side of the rear. You can do this at the range, or out your window (don't use your neighbor's face.. he won't stay still, and if he sees you, he'll call the cops).

8 - When they are aligned, carefully remove the scope and put in the second screw... tighten them both, and recheck with the scope. If they have moved, go back and re-do this.

You should be able to get the scope perfectly centered with most rings and bases.
Check with ammo... (not at your neighbor)

Pablito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 16:47:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.86)


HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL IS YOUR WATCH DOG Y2K OK OR WILL HE ROLL OVER TO
1900 :))
Now the questions I bought a Kimber 96 Mauser in 22-250 are there third party stocks that will ad more weight?.Right now it has a Ramline stock still on it,What kind of gun smithing can I get done
to this rifle to get more accuracy out of this rifle?.I want a Remington 788 in 223,22-250,308 is the rifle worth buying? I've seen a
few on Guns America been looking on the net for triggers and other items for 788 had found some things for the rifle.Last question is the Model 7 Stainless Remington a miniature 700 action? will the action fit in a 700 short action stock?

Scott Hannah <hannah@slip.net>
Los Gatos, Stalinfornia, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 17:45:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.22.121.116)


Here's another way to set up a scope if you have a bore-sighter of the Bushnell type, where you insert it into the bbl and read a scale through your scope:

Zero your scope at your chosen distance (say 100 yards). Don't worry about how you have to set your turrets to accomplish the zero for now, just do it.

Once your rifle and scope are zeroed to 100 yards, put the rifle on a solid stand and put the bore-sighter in. Make sure that the rifle and bore-sighter are fairly immobile. Look through the scope at the markings on the bore-sighter. The crosshairs will be where you need to set up for a 100 yard zero. Note exactly where that is on the bore-sighter reticule.

Keeping rifle movement to a minimum, and leaving your bore-sighter in place, take your scope set-up (scope, rings, bases, whatever) off your rifle.

Remount your bases. You might take this opportunity to shim them if needed so that you can get maximum distance out of your eventual scope travel. (raise the rear one a bit, I'll have more on this later) You might also take this opportunity to bed them a bit if their fit is not so hot.

Now zero your scope, mechanically. The easiest way to do this is to do the turrets visually as much as is practical, then use the rotational method to do the final zero. Use a shoe box or something suitable. Cut a couple notches in it so that your scope can lay across it in the notches and rotate around its axis. Aim the scope at a suitable target and rotate it in the notches. You will likely see that the center of your crosshair moves in an arc as you spin the scope. Your goal is to adjust the turrets so that when you rotate the scope you see no rotation of where the crosshair is aimed. This will indicate the the scope is mechanically zeroed. You may want to reset the turret positioning at this point so that "turret zero" is equal to mechanical zero.

Next, mount your rings. Put the scope on and without adjusting from your mechanical zero, look where you are in the boresighter relative to your 100 yard zero noted earlier. What you will need to do is adjust your mounts (not the scope) in such a way that you get your scope as close as possible to your 100 yard bore-sighted zero solely by adjusting the physical position of the rings and bases.

To do this, use shims, bedding, and simple positioning. When done correctly, you should be able to mount your mechanically zeroed scope and have it be ready positioned at your 100 yard rifle zero.

(before the arguements start, obviously certain types of scopes will have a slightly different method. For example a scope with a BDC may need to have the BDC wheel set to 100 yards, or that kind of thing. This method is meant to be pertainant for all scopes, not just certain types, with appropriate modifications)

Now, if you want to set up for maximum elevation you might want to think about this: Let's say you want to have usable elevation from 100 yards out to 900, but your scope won't travel far enough if the crosshair is mechanically zeroed at 100 yards. What you might want to do is set up your scope so that at you will have, say, 60% of your elevation dialed in at 100 yards, so that you will get that 60% + 100% of the drop back when you lower the crosshairs for long range.

In other words, let's say you mechanically zero your scope and set it up so that your mechanical zero puts you right on at 100 yards. If your scope has 60 clicks of total elevation travel, then you will now only have 30 clicks up and 30 clicks down. The 30 clicks down will be the limit of your long range.

But what if you mechanically zero your scope, then give the scope 20 clicks up before you mount it for your 100 yard zero? If you do that, your 100 yard zero will be 50 clicks up from the bottom (30 + 20) and you will have 20 extra clicks to go down, effectively giving you 20 extra clicks worth of elevation for long range. Obviously you will need to do more adjusting of your mounts to take out those extra 20 clicks of elevation, but it's nothing a simple shim can't take care of.

Remember that when you do eventually get everything set up at whatever zero you chose, you should probably lap your scope rings before you make it final.

If this appeals to you, and you have a bore-sighter, try it.

André <akpeters@isd.net>
Up, North, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 18:18:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.215.216.198)


Pablito ansd Andre, thanks for replying. I took the rifle to LRR 1 this summer and it worked great then "something" happened and windage got all messed up. TJ set the scope up for me and a great job. He lapped the rings etc. I must have done something at LRR 1.

Anyhow, thanks again and have a safe and great New Years.

Andrew
Andrew Bielech <mysig@fast.net>
Broomall, PA, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 18:31:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.92.14.61)


"lito, I am glad you are around. You saved me a lot of typing on the scope thing. I was all set to add that it sounded like the screw holes in the receiver were drilled off center until I read Andrew's last comment. Obviously a new problem with an old set up. Unless the mount shifted, it might be the scope afterall. Then again I saw a guy drop his rifle from about 4 feet and the scope didn't even notice. $35 Redfield mount to boot. Only thing to add is to check the RING screws. And of course recheck the mount screws. They can work loose enough to show this kind of deviation.

Thought I'd share something with you all. Not site related at all. But I laughed so hard after I typed it I wanted to include you in the somewhat profane observation. The topic was kids, music, and school shootings. My typical blunt and semi-censored response...

"Teenage-angst driven grunge music. That stuff is totally self absorbed bulls**t. Like the little pricks have it so bad! Makes you want to puke. I saw that MTv rated Nirvana's "Teen Spirit" the greatest song of the decade. Whadda friggin crock. It was lame and full of my-p***y-hurts lyrics. How can they now honor a guy that had it all and yet blows his brains out because he is such a weak ass girly-man and can't stand his miserable life! ;-) Yeah, Buddy, you do not want to get me going on grunge. I look at all the death and horror that happens in the world, from Somalia to Kosovo, and then look at these little pissant teeny boppers who are so sad about their black beret wearing lives. 'Oh my-god, they could not afford a new set of Nikes this week! Oh drat, they must feel so, so…disenfranchised!' Boo. Boo hoo…"

(Laughing loudly). I crack myself up. Please, do not start a new thread on the topic of teens and violence. I am just venting on the brats that are going to end our gun rights with out even being part of HCI. Or maybe I am just feeling a bit irritated that my kid, who made out like a bandit on Christmas ( he got more leggos than can be found in ALL of outer Mongolia)saw fit to whine later about not getting something he saw on the Telly... :-)

Gotta run...so, who has their possibles bag ready for The Day. Lets hope they keep the rioting to a minimum...LOL.
 

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 19:18:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.91.146.35)


Andy...
Same thing happened to me (it's those W.Va sheepies!!)

When I was at the Pre-Carlos course, I fell over a barbed wire fence, down a ravine, into a pile of thorn bushes (the West Virginia state plant!!), and when I next shot, I missed the first steel target by the road by several feet.
My spotter, "Chainsaw" Ken Hunter, knew something was wrong, and he gave real good calls, and I resighted the rifle, as I was shooting my qual, and would up with a 95, and hit the "Midtown" and "Downtown" targets on the first shots!

When I got home, I found that the bases had shifted from the fall, and I had dialed in 11 moa through the qual.

Won't happen next year... new mounting system in the works... (arc welding??)

Pablito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 20:05:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.4)


I hope this isn't a dumb question, but can anybody suggest where I can find ballistic data for .22LR rounds? Whenever I am unable to shoot at longer ranges, I practice up close with .22LR, and so I was just wondering whether there has ever been any standard ballistic data (drop tables and wind drift) in 10 yard increments, out to say, 150 yards. Please e-mail me directly at tmelick@yahoo.com with suggestions. Thanks.

Bach Melick <tmelick@yahoo.com>
Dallas, TX, USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 22:29:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.119.79.21)


Possibles bag? Hell, I've now got a possibles truck. Bags for SORT regular deployment, bags for Hazmat deployment, bags for bags to put other bags in. Could now live in the Siberian desert for a month without a McD's nearby. Jeez, the insurance man will never believe what was in the truck if it gets stolen.

'Lito, you sure Pete didn't push you over that barb wire fence?

A tired of waiting for the B.S. weekend to be over BOLT, out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Tuesday, December 28, 1999 at 22:37:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.58.58)


Well guys, I got good news, kind of.
After a bunch of writing to politicians, I finally got a response! Congressman James Hansen (southern Utah) sounds like a good guy. I would like to add that this is the FIRST hand signed, non-form letter I've EVER got from ANY politician. He's co-sponsoring a bill with Duncan Hunter (HR 2244) to prohibit any US foreign aid to Panama if they transfer any US bases or canal properties to ANY foreign government or government owned company "including the proposed leases to China". Cool. Of course being a congressman, he couldn't have anything to do with the treaty (that's the senate's job), but he does have something to do about how they run things other than treaties! If you live in this area, let's keep this good guy in.
And I suppose that our governor had too many bad letters. He was wanting to hold a state constitutional convention. Seems that he has a real problem with the fact that concealed permit holders can carry where they please (except for Federal buildings and court houses). Well, after a few nasty letters from me (nicely worded!) and no doubt many others, now he is off that horse. He promised that he wouldn't bring this topic up, IF there is a convention.
See, we CAN make a difference. So let's ALL keep on being "sqeaky wheels". If anyone can't find their congressman or senator, let me know. This will be my "political volunteer service". I'll get you a name and address, e-mail if possible, and phone number. Who knows, if there are enough nasty letters out there, maybe we can reverse the red tide before civilization dissentegrates this weekend ;-)

Let's get out there and be heard! Vote! DO IT! (now exiting soap box)
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Middle-o-Nowhere, Utah, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 01:33:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.160)


Ok Guys, somebody give me an evaluation on accuracy of using AP 173 gr vs AP 163 grain bullets in loading .308 match using IMR 4064 and in 30-06 using IMR 4064. I have a match grade M-1 with a Wilson Airguage .308 conversion as well as a standard M-1 30-06 that I am shooting. You can get the AP in both weights for under 10 cents per from folks who have pulled them from standard military production rounds.

168 gr Sierra are kind of expensive. Of course they hit the target every time.
 

DHL
Don Litton <donald.litton@prodigy.net>
USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 02:06:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.252.223.143)


>Won't happen next year... new mounting system in the works... (arc >welding??)

Why not, its something I have been thinking about. As a precision welder and machinist I could build a much better mounting system. Couple options:

1) Weld the bases on. I could tig weld bases on, the reciever wouldnt get too hot other than the direct weld zone. Hell, if you were really anal, it would only cost $40 to reheat treat the reciever. Then blueprint and square up as usual when building a rifle. I have in the past machined D2 tool steel into die blocks, and had it heat treated to Rc 59. I routinely in my job weld up anneled gears with special rod that will re heattreat to 60-62 Rc. A set of bases made of such material would be industructable.

2)Solder. Low temp (around 400 deg) would'nt effect the heat treat and would prevent the shifting of the base if knocked on something.

3)Precision machine keyways and/or press fit pins through the bases and reciever. Two 1/8 inch pins press fit all the way throught the bases into the reciever would elimininate any shifting as long as the screws hold it down tight. Not to mention it is seay to do when the reciever is mounted up in the bridgport to tap the screws to a bigger size. Cheap too, hardened pins are a couple of bucks and a reamer is under $30 or so.

4)locktite sleve and bearing retainer. The green stuff. Wicked stuff and short of burning it out, I doubt you could shift a base that has been installed with a liberal coating on contact surfaces and screws.
5)Precision machine the screw heads and thread major diameter to a perfect fit into the base. Would require all drilling and tapping be done without moving anything on the mill, but it could be done. Hell go bigger, why not 1/4-48???

The answer is out there, the question is will you pay for it.

Mike
mike S <mws@ecom.net>
there went my rights, Kalifornia, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 02:44:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.138.195.15)


'lito...something you want to tell us about your neighbor?
Hank <ninesoft2@earthlink.net>
Mile High, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 03:06:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.27.84.49)
Hopefully, I won't have to resort to welding :-)
Andrew Bielech <mysig@fast.net>
Broomall, PA, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 03:12:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.92.14.61)
RW - Eddiestone 1917 Enfield - I'd like to hear the answer for optics on this one too. I have one of those....

Ken :)
Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 03:13:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.39)


Scott
Could not agree more on Nirvana... not that one could understand the lyrics to Teen Spirit anyhow.

I liked Al Yankovics interpretation a lot better: Lyrics here.
It is done to the same general 'melody' if you care to call it that.
 

JT - who??? <tenarius@memorableplaces.com>
cccpalifornia, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 03:16:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.207.137.253)


Shopping for bino's of the compact design and need to know the shortcomings of the following units at the prices indicated .....
(1)Steiner 8x30 military/marine@ $182.45
(2)Steiner 8x30 predator@$193.50 (I like these)
(3)Apache(Steiner?) 7x28 w/mil-scale@$279.98
(4)Other suggestions in this size/price range?

Thanks
Bruce E <bgenlvtex@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 03:28:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.83)


Scope alignment.... glueing, screwing, lapping, tapping, shimming, skimming.... no dis intended to anyone, I know this is the conventional way. I can't claim a fraction of the rifle shooting experience most of you guys have, but I do have more than two decades behind me of making things work, making them precise, designing and making them to fit correctly and repeatably, making them line up and... well, you get the picture. No frigging glue has a place on any gun of mine other than maybe a Super Soaker. No buildups of JB Weld, Accra Glas, or such will be asked to fill a spot where there should be solid metal. There will be no shims. If something doesn't line up, I will not stick little pieces of .001 or .005 or whatever steel, cut out with scissors, under it. Lapping things... maybe two parts together, but not scope rings. If scope mounts are loose enough that they can be tapped around into alignment, well, they're not everything they should be. Anyway, once tapped, shimmed, glued and lapped, if/when they move from a drop or creep from recoil, or worse, if they are removed, you are prety much stuck with doing the whole bit over (but probably to a lesser extent).They are depending on the tightness of the screws, holding the mount to the top of the receiver with friction only, to keep all this lined up and soldid during recoil/field abuse. They are depending on that little wad of glued to stay put (which, I grant you, usually does).

What is all of this for, why is it necessary? Because the top profile of your receiver was belt sanded to shape by a temp, and your bases were slap-dashed out of a production line environment, profiled to fit the worst-case tolerance scenario for your particular rifle. Even your high-dollar, made-by-people-who-know, base/bases, made perfectly, aren't much help because the reciever's dimensions, the radii, the step from rear to front surfaces, all come out of a grab bag.

As I sit and write this, mind you, I do not fantasize that you are all sitting open mouthed and hushed waiting for the answer.... but here 'tis anyway.... you probably can't do it at home, but you can get it done. It does work. It IS work, more than a day's worth in the shop, depending, but anyway not much more than all the above-belittled fiddling around, and the end result is rock-solid and repeatable. It is theoretically best on a receiver that has been trued on the outer diameter, but I have found that it is not truly absolutely necessary. Basically it is making all mounting surfaces known quantities, that fit together. First, the receiver (barrelled or not) goes into the mill vise, top side up, at a muzzle-up incline of 20 minutes or whatever is thought to be appropriate in the individual case. Flats are milled front and rear-- they will be at different elevations, this is recorded. The flats will wind up being about 1/2" wide. At the edges of these flats, the cutter gets dropped down .050 and another cut is made, so that the front surface now consists of a raised key, .500 wide, its length going from the front of the ejection port to almost the front of the receiver. The rear is done the same way, except that the surface that is raised .050 also has a front and back, so this key, then, is .500 X .500, raised .050 with the mounting holes centered in the middle. If the holes should prove to be off, side to side, they would be location-bored with a small endmill, drilled and tapped to the next size; I have not yet needed to do this. I have been fabricating one-piece ring/base units by heli-arc welding rings to bases or just machining them from 4140 blocks. Either way, as the last step, they are both clamped to a piece of 1" (or 30mm) ground drill rod, so that they are level to each other. Into the vise goes the drill rod, and the bottom surfaces are trued at the proper elevations (according to the recorded dif between front and rear surfaces on the receiver). Then a .501 groove, .050 deep, is cut through the front one, on center. The rear one gets a .501 square pocket cut into it, .050 deep, centered about the mounting holes, using a 1/16 cutter-- the cutter is allowed to run wide 1/32 at the sides so the pocket "thinks" it has square corners. Now, things are as they should be. When you put it together, everything falls into place and into alignment. It was not a whole lot more work (for your machinist) than screwing around with all that other stuff, which is somewhat temporary and comparatively flimsy. It will not move side to side, and the rear key serves as a recoil lug, taking the strain off the screws. The front could be done as a lug too, but probably isn't necessary-- kind of in the "wouldn't hurt to do it on a .50" category. You will have to break or pull out the screws to move the mounts-- whatever happens that can do that just ruined the scope anyway. It is repeatable, although you do have to remove the scope to get the rings off. The five or six I have done this way have come well within 2" of center at 100 yards, with the scope adjustment centered for the first shots. Elevation likewise (depending on what the particular range needs are).

I'm not writing this to try to make a showcase for me and my super-duper mounting method. I am not trying to sell this service. I'm telling you, I just hate hearing guys talking about glueing and shimming their guns together, cussing the process and the uncertainty of it. For the cost of the lapping kit, the glue, the shims, and all, you can fund 50% of this work with your local guy. Take the time you'd spend doing it times $10, and there's another 25% of the cost. Kick in the other 25% and say it's for the increased aligment, solidity, and repeatability, and you are there!

Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
xx, MI, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 03:33:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.137.39)


Ned, Spoken like machinist indeed......Do you have a drawing of this and if so,can you make it be in this here computer?
Bruce E <bgenlvtex@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 04:10:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.83)
GENTLEMEN,
My name in Logan I am the president of the TACTICAL TAILOR, we manufacture nylon products.(like eagle and blackhawk) All our products are as good if not better than my compiters. We manufacture all our products in Tacoma, WA. All our products are Guaranteed for life, we DO NOT MAKE CRAP. I am a former ARMY Grunt(B4 qualifyed) and got into the sewing business in early 92 making Ghillie suits. If any one would like more information About The TACTICAL TAILOR or the products we produce Please contact us a 253-984-7854 M-F 9-5 pacific time.

Logan.
Logan Coffey <l.coffey@worldnet.att.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 04:20:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.73.105.197)


To Ken and Rw Re: mounting a scope on an 1917 enfield
Although I mentioned this before and my humble advice found its way to the Hot Tips and Cold Shots section, I will repeat for your benefit. I think the best bet for mounting a scope on this rifle will be using a Unertl target type scope. Only 4 holes need to be drilled. 2 in the barrel and 2 on the front receiver ring. If you buy a spare handguard, and notch that one out for the base on the barrel, you still have the original handguard, and when the base is removed and the original handguard replaced no one will ever know that there are 2 holes in the barrel. If you want to restore the drilled holes in the receiver, I'll bet someone like Ned here can make it look as good as new. There are other ways to mount a scope besides this but usually involve cutting off the protective ears of the rear sight. This can also be restored, but as the monkey said as he peed on the cash register, "This is going to run into a lot of money." I think S&K also makes a "instant mount" for this rifle that requires no drilling and tapping, if you want a scope on your rifle for show and not go. One good thing about mounting a scope on the M1917 Enfield is that the bolt handle and Safety do not need altering for scope usage.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 05:09:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.148.41)
Okay, things to pose since I have been gone a while:

1) Tactical Tailor - excellent gear! Outstanding. I have used his stuff and still use his stuff today both from my former TACP/Mil days and my present LE days. He was even able to design a special soft pack for our unit (go IMPAC card!) in a very short turn around. I would highly recommend his gear to anyone (now, if I could just get a discount for the plug . . .)

2) For all of you serious shooters and LE types, a somewhat humorous question: In about one month, my wife and I will be welcoming our first child (a little girl; yeah, yeah, I know - God help her in her dating life with a Dad for a cop). While I am completely excited and ready, I am beginning to wonder how it will affect my personal shooting time for the upcoming year. Advice from the experienced fathers & mothers out there? IS there such a thing as sleep for parents in the first three months after birth??

3) For the LE community: I am presenly working on our proposal for moving from 870s to patrol car rifles (M4s). We are a small department, don't have huge sums of money in our budget and do not have a true SRT or similar (although we are planning to develop a DM for initial containment pending the response of the county SWAT team). Has anyone established guidelines or a program using the patrol car rifle as also a spotter weapon for use with the DM? I realize the need for individually assigned weapons for correct zeros and I have funded my own package (or at least as much as possible until "Baby R' Us" kicked in) but we are faced with getting this program past the fiscally anal city council, getting it funded and then adding rifles via a back door a bit at a time until all officers have their own assigned rifles. Thoughts, suggestions and responses are appreciated.

Scott: My bag is packed (and working New Year's Eve). According to Seattle's illustrious mayor, at least Seattle Center won't be too busy now that the party is cancelled (words from the same folks who thought the WTO protestors would be civil and kind . . .).

Yeah. Right.

Caliber Press: Yeah, I read their stuff and get the Newslines e-mailed to me. Their books are good and the tips are sometimes helpful. However, these were the same people who thought that by having an NRA sticker on a car window, that made the driver/R/O immediately suspect and a possible extremist. The sly anti-gun bias is always in the background.

I got to get to the range to get in as much time as possible . . .

Morris
Morris <mparrish@oz.net>
Seattle Metro, WA, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 05:52:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.39.133.21)


Just giving my unbiased, unpaid support for Logan Coffey and Tactical Tailor Products. Logan has been making TOPSHELF gear here for a long time, and has a huge following in the military and LE in the area. Our teams in 1st Gp and the guys in 2/75th use more of his stuff than that of the OTHER nylon manufacturers. Why? Because he stands behind his stuff 100%, will custom make your kit, and it it durab|e and functional as hell. It's made for operators....period. His vests, drag bags, and ruck add-on equipment is made from suggestions of the folks who use it and use it hard. Never has his stuff failed on me. I've had to send back both Eagle and Blackhawk products before. From now on, I'll only go to Logan. It's worth every penny and every minute of your time.

Cheers,
Mike
Mike A. <moamike@ix.netcom.com>
Steilacoom, Washington, USofA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 06:05:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.31.44.54)


Some Rambling for Military Snipers and anyone interested:
Item one: I have noticed that some of us in the U.S. Army Sniper community, and modern snipers in general, rely much too heavily on the ghillie suit to the detrement of proper site selection; a good hide will conceal you in the buff, let alone in a g-suit. Use depth and shadow to maximum concealment, and remember the importance of early target detection on a stalk. As long as YOU know where the target is, even a solitary tree can be used to stalk within effective range. I was lucky enough to be trained by SAS Master Snipers at the NATO ILRRPS Sharpshooter School, who broke me of the
SGT West, Laurent J. <Beowulf_w@msn.com>
FT. Carson, CO,, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 09:19:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.225.18.152)
Does anyone know anything about Springfield 1903 rifles? I'm looking for a couple of things...first is a scope mount...I've given up trying to find the "correct" scope that goes with this rifle, at this point, I'd like to put any type of mount. Does anyone know who makes one?

Also, if someone knows specifics about the different models (A1-A4), please email me...thanks!

-mike
mp5pdw@hotmail.com
mike <mp5pdw@hotmail.com>
LA, CA, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 10:22:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.178.158.153)


Ned...
I can understand "Where you're coming from"... but unless someone has the talent and machines to do it them selves, what you're describing is not practical, and in this neck of the woods, would represent about $800 ot $1000 of machinest time... and 98% of the gunsmiths around, couldn't do it anyway... even for the $1000.

However... D.D. Ross makes an oversized Picatinny rail that has lugs.
He machines slots in the reciever (the same slots as "Clip slots"), and the base drops down into the slots with no play.
The existing holes are drilled out (moved if necessary), and re-tapped for over sized screws... simple, clean, and "zero" play.
That's the way I'm going for the new Rem that I got for the Carlos match (that STILL isn't here yet). It's been finished for a month, and they (Rem) have a new computer system that has my (and about 30 others) gun in digital limbo... it won't let them ship it :((
I'm praying for a Y2K crash in Illion... then someone will simply write an invoice and shipping lable on the sucka, and ship it!

Don Litton...
On the AP. Don't expect much. The steel cores are not precission machined, and after heat treatment, they are not straight! To make it worse, they aren't put all that straight into the bullet, when they're all finished up. Expect 2" or more at 100yds, even with your match gun. Because of the lightness of steel, the AP's are longer than the corresponding FMJ 173's, and because of this length, need a 10" twist.

Boltster Dude!...
" you sure Pete didn't push you over that barb wire fence?"
Don't think so... that rascal's too skinny.
You know that poster that has the ghilli guy saying "Will snipe for food?"... guess who that is!

Hank...
"'lito...something you want to tell us about your neighbor?"

Yea... he has four hundred and eleventy three "Cats"!!... and lets them out for the rest of the town to clean up after... and he has a personality that makes Rosanne Barr look sweet and cheerful! Did I ever tell you how I feel about stray cats!!
Last year, I had several e-mails with one of the fella's on SC about creative ways to deal with "Stray Cats"... you know, CB caps, etc...
Well the best one I've heard is "How to bath a Stray Cat".
1 - Take one cinderblock, 3 feet of 550 cord, a block of soap, and a Stray Cat, to a deep pond.
2 - Tie the Stray Cat to the cinderblock with the piece of 550 cord.
3 - Throw the cinderblock into the pond!
4 - Take the bar of soap home... wash your hands!
Easy!
But Beeman air guns work well also.

'lito
 
 
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 12:49:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.25)


Stray Cats - If you don't want to kill em', you can use a super soaker filled with vinegar...they hate it and most likely will not come back, and it's not "inhumane"...

If you really don't like the guy, find out which ones he lets in the house...spray them with some of the scents you can pick up at the hunting store...or make your own...glutaric acid works great (rancid butter)
Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 15:31:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.20.190.1)


'Lito,

With four hundred and eleventry-three cats to bath, you will run out of cinder blocks, and will fill up the pond with the blocks. However, a brick of 22 subsonic cartridges is dirt cheap.
I don't have any neighbors, but the townies are always dropping their cats off here at my place. The coyotes eat most of them. Stupid people think they are giving their unwanted pets a good home, but they are just feeding the 'Yotes!! I did take some of them to a friends dairy farm as he wanted some mouse eaters.

Best Wishes for a Happy New Year!!
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 15:39:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.213)


Morris,

I am not in the mood for serious thinking today, so I will GLADLY tackle your No.2 Question. RTAB. Range Time After Baby…in short…(maniacal laugh)…Range time? Ha! Right. NOT.
OK, so it will be a bit tough at first. At least if your wife is up all night while you sleep like a "Baby" (a phrase I never did understand since my kid DIDN"T SLEEP!). She'll want you to be up or take over when she sleeps. For a few months everything else will take a back seat. But eventually you'll be able to get out. In the mean time DRY FIRE a lot. With your service pistol you can run through failure drills, draws and point shooting all in the comfort of your home. Work slow and keep the motions accurate. You simply want to keep the muscle memory in top shape. With the rifle, you can also get in a fair amount if practice via dry fire. Muscle memory is the thing, so keeping the skills up is a simple matter of going through the motions. Most of the better competitive shooters I know spend hours in front of the TV (not looking at the TV) dry firing against a small target they placed on the wall (I used to use a dot the size of my front sight post when practicing for High Power. It is not as gratifying as range time, but in some ways it is better in that you can catch mistakes you'd miss under the influence of recoil. You can also work out the bugs in your stance since there is no pressure to "perform". It ain't ideal (ideal being defined as living on your own private 1000 yard range with 10,000 rounds of quality ammo to practice with a year!) But it'll hold you over until you can get away.

As a final note I give you the advice I give to all new fathers: BEWARE the GREEN Diaper. Those of you who have been there know what I mean. Those who have not, best get some MOPP gear or run like hell! Morris, welcome to the undiscovered country. Valium is on the left.

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 15:45:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.91.146.35)


Morris, what I hear in your request is for two seperate weapons sytems.
1.For a Patrol Rifle a M4 with an ACOG Reflex is a great way to go. The weapon only needs semi auto and the 6.5moa dot is perfect for the optics. This is a rifle/optics combo that is quick to teach and learn. The system is a support perimeter weapon that also does indoor work very well. Cost to department $800.00 each
2. The second system is a sniper rifle with scope. The standard PSS with a 3.5x10 Leupold will do you right. Cost to department 1000.00 each set up.

Now every sniper needs his/her own sniper rifle and you must have atleast two snipers to work together. You cabn share M4's because the ranges used are close. Just be sure everyone has been checked out on all the weapons. The weapons are just part of it. You need optics range finders, load bearing gear etc.

Now for the part you may not want to hear. If the founding fathers want to do this half assed back out. A SWAT Team has to be all out or not at all. You need equipment and training or leave it to the next larger agency that has the responsibility to do. If you need a SWAT you need it outfitted and trained or you dont need them. A piss poor team is worse than no team at all.

Pablito, dude you should have bought a rifle from Jerry Rice. Less wait and I will put his stuff against anything Remington can put out anyday
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 16:30:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.173)


Hello all,

I have a Rem 700P w/a Leupold Vari-X III M3 Milldot and I am considering a Tasco SS10x42 for a second rifle I use for a beater.

Here is my problem: all reviews of this scope I have read say it has a "Mil-Dot" Reticle, however, according to the description of the reticle on the Tasco website it seems to me the spacing of the mills are different than a standard Mil-Dot, and the standard formula for estimating range will not work. By my calculations you can substitute 545 for the constant 1000 in the standard formula and make it work with the Tasco. Is this right? Am I totally wrong and will the standard formula work with this scope?

Thanks in advance,

Mike
bullpup <blackstratguy@excite.com>
Rochester, NH, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 17:20:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.6.136.116)



Slow day so I am catching up on some reading.

And here I did not want any serious thought. Damn.

If you have not yet read Blackhawk Down, do so. I may eventually review it for this site, but can say right now that it is an excellent read. I am 2/3rds the way through it and it is a gripping story. More action than a person can stand. It says a lot, with out ever saying so out loud, about the foolishness of some of the foreign policy decisions made during and by the current administration. A lot of people died, both American and MANY more Somali -- because of the current stupidity found in the white house. It illustrates well the reality that we can not place the best fighters this nation has to offer into an area where the populous does not support us, where we do not fully understand the ramifications of our actions or of the political situation, without suffering for our hubris.

Our troops were the sharp edge in a place where a knife was probably not useful in the traditional sense. A lot of innocents were killed by our troops who were for all intents doing their best to simply survive and protect their team mates. It is a pretty sad tale of wholesale slaughter on every side. In a way it is a clarion call to liberal politicians who think they can solve any and all of the worlds problems by throwing US troops at them. Troops are young and full of piss and vinegar. They will gladly answer The Call with little thought to the "why" or to the personal ramifications. So it is up to the leaders of a nation to think rationally and soundly before deploying a force to resolve an issue. It seems to me that the search for Aidid was pointless. Capturing him would solve nothing. But it would make a few politicians look good…or worse, FEEL good. UN leader Butros Butros-Gali was a personal enemy of Aidid, so you have to factor that in too.

As I read this sad tale my heart goes out to the spec op guys and rangers who got sucked into that mess, who did their job, and who died for little of worth in the grand scheme of things. From their perspective, they died defending their friends and their team. From my perspective, they were wasted by a fool with visions of nation building dancing in his head. I hope this nation's leaders will learn something from this book. Sadly most will probably never read it.

Maybe I won't review it. It would be hard to write anything further with out pontificating like above. Just go buy it. You won't regret it.
 

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 17:36:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.91.146.35)


Projectile vomiting - more accurate and effective than any weapon system ever created.

Battle field package - take one baby daughter with colic, add soybean formula cause she was alergic to milk, add dad with no sleep in two weeks and you have the most effective fighting force known to mankind.

Compute trajectory of 6 ounces of soy formula at 300 feet per second at the mouth at 15 feet distance to the nearest thing in the room that can get ruined.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 18:00:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 170.98.67.135)


I agree. Read Blackhawk Down. It was written by a reporter who did his homework, interviewing combatants on both sides. While it will not have the insight of someone who was on the ground, or even in the country, the author did a great job of putting it all together. A book written by a combatant will always have a "bird's eye view," but this book has got the whole battle, not just one man's point of view. I can't think of a better book about a battle, and that is not hype. It is not a dry history book. You will enjoy reading it, and we can all learn from it.

We can only hope that the people who will send us to future battles will also read it.

Semper Fi
Mark <markj12pct@aol.com>
Columbus, Oh, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 18:07:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.194.193)


Does anyone have any hands-on info about the Blaser 93 Tactical rifle. It's specs sound very appealing; at about $1900 it has all the bells & whistles of a $3000+ rifle like the L96A1, has a 10 rnd detatchable mag, and offers a straight-pull, modular camming bolt for some fast bolt manipulation. Reported accuracy w/test target photo was 10 shots within 28mm (c.a. 1.2") at 300m! Blaser is a German company but it imports the 93T through SIG Arms.
SGT West,L <Beowulf_W@msn.com>
Ft. Carson, Co., USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 18:38:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.225.29.167)
If we are going to discuss babies vs. range time I want to post the question. Where can I meet girls that like to who hunt and shoot?
I seem to be surrounded by leftwing anti-second amendment fruitcake girls who tolerate being victims of violent crimes. It you have any pointers or a story on how you met your lady your input will be greatly appreciated. I am not trying to sleep around with every girl in the shooting community. I am trying to get to a point where I wont be able to go to the range because the wife wants me to take care of the baby so she can get some sleep.

Michael <mikewood_@excite.com>
Houston, Tx, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 19:02:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.163.248.80)


Re: Enfield scope set up. Had the ears cut off mine, whole receiver radiused to match a Remington. Shot great, but lived WAY too short. If you want a bank vault for a action, way to go. Had it done in CA, not too much cash.

Re: AP. I never could make it group better than an AK, so I decided not to. I would expect tracer to be the same way (but haven't tried it).

'Lito: I understand that cats hate CS gas. Try lobbing a few in his front window ;-)

Morris: Congratulations. Ditto what Scott said. I used a orange colored thumb tack at the end of the hall. REALLY easy to see a flinch, poor form, get your NPOA, etc. The only down side is all the company asking "why do you have this dayglow thumbtack in the wall?".

Blackhawk Down: Great. Up there with "Bob the nailer" in my book.

Bolt: dude, you've done it. The ultimate weapon! Laughed hard enough to bust a gut, but only 'cause I've been there too! And it always goes for the most expensive thing in the room! Magnavox doesn't cover that under standard VCR warranty :-(

Fresno county had a burglary of the police explosives bunker! They walked out with cases of TNT, C4, gunpowder, but no caps. DUH. Maybe they're gonna touch a match to it :-) First time I saw someone set fire to C4, thought I would die. Doesn't blow. Go figure. Fireworks anyone?
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 19:04:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.165)


Michael, on meeting women that like to hunt and shoot, don't try. Had one in college that could take dove regularly with a 410 that I bought her. Embarassing as hell. Then learned to shoot my Nylon 22, bad news for squirrels. Then she learned that it would be fun to try to outshoot me with my Model 19, she did. One of the problems with women that like to hunt, shoot and fish is that you can't ever get rid of them LOL.

BTW, it's much more fun sleeping with all of 'em.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 29, 1999 at 20:35:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 170.98.67.135)