Sniper Country Duty Roster

November 2005

CDC,

Received an e-mail from Bill Rogers yesterday and he's fine. When I tried to phone him, his truck had broken down out in the boonies and he was out of a signal area. His two years and eleven month old grandson, who is going on twenty-one, has moved in and that's keeping him pretty busy. As a direct result he is now in lurk mode. He appreciates you asking about him and said he someday hopes to buy you a beer. Said that the yotes are wearing their high grade coats so we may be in for a long hard winter here in the Midwest. Guess I had better lay in a little more "anti-freeze" just in case.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The rainy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 00:26:43 (ZULU)

Would some of you comment on your recommendations for a long range, tactical rifle course for civilians. I had my heart set on Storm Mountain, but they have changed to LE and military only. I'm leaning toward Chuck Taylor... Any thoughts on that also.

Thanks...

Grogan
Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 00:38:00 (ZULU)

Grogan, one of the best around, if not THE best, BadLands Tactical Training Facility!

Check them out at: www.badlandstactical.net

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 00:47:43 (ZULU)

Grogan,

Try Badlands or Blackwater.

medicim
Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 01:55:48 (ZULU)

new technology for counter-sniper operations:

http://www.radiancetech.com/products/weaponwatch.htm

WeaponWatch™

Detecting and Responding to Enemy Weapon Fire at the Speed of Light

WeaponWatch combines infrared sensor fidelity and super high-speed data analysis to enable warfighters to instantaneously detect, locate and classify firings of a broad range of weapons.

Warfighters and security personnel are under increasing risk from sniper fire and drive-by shootings. These terrorist acts succeed largely because of the difficulty in detecting and locating the enemy fire. Forces engaged with Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) are employing this system today to provide exacting targeting information in both urban and open terrain.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 02:48:55 (ZULU)

Happy Halloween!

A bald man with a wooden leg gets invited to a Halloween

party. He doesn't know what costume to wear to hide his head and his leg so he writes to a costume company to explain his problem. A few days later he received a parcel with the following note:

"Dear Sir,

Please find enclosed a pirate's outfit. The spotted handkerchief will cover your bald head and, with your wooden leg, you will be just right as a pirate.

Very truly yours, Acme Costume Co."

The man thinks this is terrible because they have emphasized

his wooden leg and so he writes a letter of complaint. A week goes by and he receives another parcel and a note, which says:

"Dear Sir,

Please find enclosed a monk's habit. The long robe will

cover your wooden leg and, with your bald head, you will really look

the part.

Very truly yours, Acme Costume Co."

Now the man is! really upset since they have gone from

emphasizing his wooden leg to emphasizing his bald head so again he writes the company another nasty letter of complaint. The next day he gets a small parcel and a note, which reads:

"Dear Sir,

Please find enclosed a bottle of molasses and a bag of

crushed nuts. Pour the molasses over your bald head, pat on crushed nuts, stick your wooden leg up your ass and go as a caramel apple.

Very truly yours, Acme Costume Co."

TonyY
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 04:20:18 (ZULU)

Gents,

Had a post ready to send last night and managed to lose it before posting. I'll try again.

Moe, Rod, and all our high water survivors (not ANOTHER reality show). Glad all are safe and recovering/picking up the pieces.

Sub-Sonic Ammo: A few years ago I was invited to join a group, whose primary interest was NFA weapons, but was comprised of a incredibly diverse membership. Members included a well know author (Unintended Consequences), weapons designers/ballisticians from Picattiny Arsenal and White Sands. A number from the manufacter/design elements of private industry. The group had expertise in explosives, small arms, nuclear ordnance, and everything in between. During this time procurement of subsonic ammunition was undertaken, with 9mm, 5.56 X 45, and 7.62 x 51 being priorities.

The request for proposal (RFP) was issued and qualifying manufacturer's submitted products for testing to Picattiny Arsenal.

Most of the major manufacterer's were present, Lapua included. Smaller companies submitted products and all were tested using the parameter's from the RFP. The top spot was captured by a small Texas firm. Engel Ballistic Research. If you're interested I can give you Whit's number. EBR is currently running split operations between the Smithville, TX site and his new site in New Mexico.

EBR's .308 subsonic comes in a 180 grain and a 220 grain configuration and requires a 1:10" twist rate. Accuracy is about 1/2 MOA in my M40A1 clone. Picattiny's head of testing (a member of the NFA list) described the majority of submissions tested as "floor sweepings" by comparison.

The EBR "Wraith" system is an effort by several firms to integrate their designs. The result is truely impressive, to say the least. Firing an early version, several years ago, all you heard was the drop of the firing pin and the strike of the bullet.

The Wraith system has been uprgraded and capabilites improved to the point that anything within a USMC KD course would be toast.

Gents, I'm not a trained sniper, but am knowledgable enough to know a good thing when I see it.

.338 Lapua Subsonic: great concept, but begs the question "why"? You gain little in power over the .308 since you are using subsonic velocities anyway. Attendant problems of huge case capacity, etc., make this a tough nut to crack. I may be wrong, but if someone can show me the need I'd like to see it. Then I'd like to see the engineering done to make it work.

Won't even comment about carrying a sniper rifle and a carbine, but will only say you should read SLA Marshall's comments on infantrymen and loads carried. It's dependant on the type of warfare, terrain, etc. Can't see it myself for a number of reasons.

Semi Auto Sniper Rifles: Have a place, but again it's situationally dependent, IMHO. NOT going into it now...too many variables.Tired/getting late...close for now.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 04:35:38 (ZULU)

Has anyone done any business with the Charles Ladd who was selling the Harris bipods on the emporium? I haven't bought anything off the emporium in a while. Are the people doing business there still honest?

CDC'
Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 05:09:05 (ZULU)

Sir Wes: Two-up on weapons may not be convenient, but it has uses. Tailoring a load is a series of compromises in any event--and you learn fast from mistakes. Screw SLA Marhsall---he is all about the averages anyway. METT-TC. You do what you have to do---and trim the comfort levels.

The semi idea is useful in the current battle. I expect once we have what we asked for, the bitching will begin again. And, once this war is thru, there will be another round of adjustments. There is no perfect multitool---never will be either. If something does more than one thing well--it does neither great. I think that is a law of physics...

Anyone know the specs on that screw that adjusts the swivel grabber thing on a harris bipod? I need to get a suitable replacement---size. thread etc if you know...

And moderators: I need some spec sheets for a 5.56 QD and a threaded 7.62 can---anyone know where I can get drawings/ specs to have these built here? It is a side project...have machinists, need diagrams.

Glad Brogers is still lurking somewhere...now where has Rick been?

joe M
Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 09:27:21 (ZULU)

Joe writes:

"Anyone know the specs on that screw that adjusts the swivel grabber thing on a harris bipod? I need to get a suitable replacement---size. thread etc if you know..."

If you are referring to the aftermarket replacement piece that controls the connect/disconnect between the bipod and the QD stud on the stock, you want this:

Tank's Rifle Shop - Bipod Speedy knob:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=13191

If you are referring to the part that loosens and slightens the S-series bipod tilt adjustment, you want a Pod Loc.

Available from mfgr, Brownells or Sinclair Int'l. No S-type Harris Bipod should be w/o one, IMHO.

NSN 100-09-000-2008.

http://www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/PodLoc.asp

http://www.snipersparadise.com/vendors/KMW/KMW.htm

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1506

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=04-140&type=store

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 12:51:04 (ZULU)

Another good choice for civilian rifle training is Rifles Only. Click on my name for the link. There's a Precision Rifle class followed by a competition - the 2006 Sniper's Hide Cup - in March of next year, which would be a good time to go.

Lindy
An Undisclosed Secure Location, U.S.A. - Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 13:13:56 (ZULU)

Joe M.,

That Tank's Rifle Shop - Bipod Speedy knob is a 10x24 thread.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 13:34:42 (ZULU)

Rod, it is the bipod speedy knob that I need a replacement for. I really only need to know the size/ thread count numbers.

This so I can go to my shop buddies and ask for the right part and look all smart and shit. I could just go and start thru the bench stock until one fits the bill....but then I look as dumb as I actually am---and that destroys the myth of mahon...so, if anyone knows, pipe in asap. Otherwise, i just go drawer-to-drawer like mere mortals. Heheh. seriously...this is the only reason I am asking ahead of time.

I found three harris bipods, all missing that one screw. Perhaps the first time "trash" is trashed for being "unscrewed."

Anyone?

Tough crowd here....this is some of my best stuff...

Edited to add: Doc answered my question 3 minutes and 56 seconds before I asked it. Maybe you could suggest some numbers for my lottery habit...and when I should purchase my next chance in the rifle raffle???

joe m
Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 13:38:38 (ZULU)

Been a while since I've posted guys. Things are still rocking with AmericanSnipers.org, though the cash flow isn't what it once was. We're all looking forward to SHOT show in February so that we can bring the coffers back up to speed. Two of our guys, BK and a fellow in FL were both impacted by different hurricanes within 6 weeks of each other. Maybe China, Iran, N.Korea, Syria or Kalifornia has some kind of hurricane-making machine? =)

Major Joe, as a guy who is so non-mechanically inclined, I hear your words and I say, "hey, that's me!" .... and I thank the big man that I'm not alone. I can put fluids in my car and that is it. I can shoot my rifles (and well), but I refuse to tinker with anything that I could royally screw up.

Vaughn

Vaughn Johnson
WI, - Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 16:03:51 (ZULU)

100 rounds or 5 boxes of 300 mag will fit in one of the old style saw pouches.

That is all, Bolt out

Bolt
NC, - Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 23:23:21 (ZULU)

Joe M.,

Hey Joe! I make you special deal GI! Split lottery 50/50 for winning numbers! ;o))) If I could pick winners I would be more than happy to share.

Cheers & WY 6,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The beautiful Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, November 2, 2005, at 00:10:33 (ZULU)

Hey sniper dudes ...

Larry, Doc, Robert O ... got the boxes. Very much appreciated and I spread the wealth around.

Life is getting back to normal. Had two shootings in as many days so we are getting back to where we should be.

Can always use fundage for the guys overseas fellas.

If you want to help out HERE ... AND ... THERE ... buy from Marty B, LouAnn or Mike and send the stuff to us. The guys ALWAYS need those items. WIN WIN deal for everyone.

Truly need every Smith Ent. mount and magazine I can get for an M14.

We are currently supporting Snipers/DMs in 233 different platoons.

Will be at booth # 478 at SHOT SHOW (LE Section) so stop by and say hey.

Joe M is doing great things many do not know about.

SHOOTER was a good read. The author took a little poetic license but I have it on good authority that Jack Coughlin saved a lot of Marines. That carries the mail where I live ...

Best Gents (you too VJ),

brian k. sain
Wednesday, November 2, 2005, at 02:48:59 (ZULU)

Did someone say Riffle Raffle ?

brian k. sain
Wednesday, November 2, 2005, at 02:51:17 (ZULU)

Riffle Raffle....could happen....stand by!

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Wednesday, November 2, 2005, at 03:07:55 (ZULU)

I am currently reading "13 cent killers, The 5th Marine Snipers in Veitnam" by John J. Culbertson.

The picture on the cover is the same as the picture on the "SniperCountry" t-shirt.

I know the info on the picture has been posted before but I can't find it. Anyone remember?

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Wednesday, November 2, 2005, at 03:47:33 (ZULU)

Gents,

Joe, I agree that SLA Marshall probably was living in a perfect world. However, I do think his idea was headed in the right direction and has been born out in the majority of conflicts since. American troops combat loads are huge and seem to be getting larger. We save weight in one area and add twice as much in "essential" gear.

That may be OK for entrenched troops and limited movement, but doesn't cut it in the long haul. Current CQB tactics allow for carry of extra weaponry for shorter distances. Hence, your scenario with an M4 (or such) will work. Much better would be a semi-auto with good accuracy and firepower if needed with accuracy to double as a sniper rifle.

Let's save the bolt guns for traditional sniper duties. My suggestion would be to add another person or two that can watch the snipers back. Hmmm, isn't that the job of the team mate?

Sorry to be in a pissy mood, but when I see buddies returning and getting shit on by their spouses, work, etc., I tend to get that way.

Doesn't seem to be anyone caring of taking care of the home front for our folk...

Time to walk the dog...and get things back in perspective.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Wednesday, November 2, 2005, at 04:01:01 (ZULU)

Yeah, but more boots on the ground means more chance of compromise. 3 or 4 guys is really about right, maybe 5 if you're doing urban in a high risk area and the hide can be larger.

A custom built AR10 type semi 308 will be as effective for military use as a bolt 308 for 98%+ of missions/shots you're gonna see. If you need long range, you need a bolt 338Lapua or 50cal bolt gun, not a freaking bolt 308. It's a huge combat disadvantage for almost no performance gain. S/F...Ken M

Ken M
Wednesday, November 2, 2005, at 06:04:13 (ZULU)

The CIA sends a extravagantly unqualified and mendacious dipshit like Joe Wilson to check out a report that Sadaam tried to buy yellowcake from Niger?

Aren't there any grown-ups available? Please tell me that we have serious people who do this kind of thing for a living. Aren't people who didn't make faces out of the window of the little yellow bus supposed to check off on "missions" of this type? Apparantly the CIA employs no such people at any level.

Anyway, said dipshit flys to Niger and does nothing that can be mistaken for research of any kind. He then returns and publishes his prejudices disguised as "findings" to the editorial page of the New York Times? Repeat: THE NEW YORK TIMES??!!! Shouldn't there have been a report? Shouldn't it have been reviewed before being declassified?

Think about that for five seconds and there is no other conclusion than some combination of the third-string Ivy League goofs who infect the the Federal government like a venereal disease were trying to shoot the down the administration's policy.

Democratic Senator Frank Church and Little Jimmy Carter's Stansfield Turner gutted the CIA. You see what we ended up with.

You'll remember that Bush "accepted the resignation" of George Tenant then sent Porter Goss to the CIA to shake things up. I hope he convinced them that they shouldn't run obvious operations against our country's civilian leadership.

CDC'
Wednesday, November 2, 2005, at 06:13:43 (ZULU)

Sir Wes: Two different takes on soldier-loads. First, in your way of looking at it, is the average Joe who gets told what to pack. BTDT, and it usually sucks ass with needless weight tossed in for "SOP." That is the product of non-independant thinking; and leaders who lack experience (and the certain kind of confidence born from that). This is evident with "boots" in your ruck. I have been in places where I walked out of them---and I knew I would...but I have been mostly in areas that were kind to boots, and I was willing to bet I would get resupplied BEFORE the next seasons' weather came to bear (say, in 3 plus months). Most SF operations---I would never consider carrying "spare boots"---and very little spare anything. Yet, a "light infantry" ruck will have silly items like this---all because some moron decides it is a good idea, and it is SOP. Dumb reason, to be sure. But it happens---same for cold weather items, like watch caps in July. (sidebar: Before light infantry, we had trucks to carry all this shit--so we, the infantry, were very light indeed. But then this light concept stripped the trucks outta companies, and the loads dumped into our rucks. We became heavy infantry, but the costs of our unit got "light.")

But the other point is specialty troops, who by and large can tailor their own loads to missions. That is what I was talking about...and that is all I really care about. The infantry is too big and dumb to fix, and like i said--BTDT, so they can take the same lessons i did and move on if they want to. But, the specialists need to share knowledge and experience---because the learning curve is steep and dangerous these days as far as picking "kit" to go out the wire with. Little mistakes can get ya killed. Like who wants a watch to go beep when an enemy patrol is standing next to your hide? Or, wishing you had a IR filter for your light to signal the circling exfil bird in an emergency? You can learn that stuff anywhere---except on a real world mission. But the less obvious stuff is important too--like which "one" knife can handle all the tasks, or to hot-bag for extended stays vs. needing bags to stave of hypothrermia in a wet environment...anyway--two different arguments on the same subject. I took the sniper/ operator side by default--and i think you are talking "army at large" for loads.

And I think the traditional sniper/ spotter leaves a gap in security---we need to look at three-man teams across the board. That is a bite out of manpower that will not be easy to pull off. Much resistance, but checking six with extra eyes is never a bad idea. Anything bigger than three---hell, send a squad. But standard set should be 3, not 2 IMHO. Ya know, not having any more thought than just typing---but I think a perfect team would be a .338 Lap primary stick (the dedicated sniper sticks out there are all good), a AR10T for the spotter, and an AR10 carbine for the security---if only to allow sharing of boolits. All B4 qualified, positions by range scores. Set up the LR for day night (that PVS22 is actually cool as hell, now that I have seen it--mounted Forward of optics, at that)--and set the carbine up for reflex fire with the eotech/ 22 combo. Eotech's reticle is by far more precise over the aimpoint. That team would pack a punch, and could survive compromise better than two anyday. If the sniper wants, otpion him one of those 5.7mm garden hose things by FNH.

Geoff, as you yourself noted at the range: that 65MOA ring around a 1MOA dot is fast and precise as hell. Better groups, same M4, over the aimpoint---and I was taking much, much longer setting the aimpoint on target due to the perceived coverage at 100 meters. Another note, I zeroed the eotech, took it off, and zeroed the aimpoint. Then, I just stuck the eotech back on and shot dead-on. The eotech is a more secure method of attachment too. I hate it when i change my mind in the face of overwhelming data...I really was down on eotechs not long ago. The only thing going for aimpoint is the durability of the tube and the protection for the optics...

edited to add a disclaimer: Ken M's post, agreeing with me on the 338 lap--came in while I was typing this earlier...I just noticed the traffic between this one and the last one i had read....and it was cool to see some support for the concept.

Joe M

joe m
Wednesday, November 2, 2005, at 06:36:35 (ZULU)

Lost another Navy destroyer WW2 vet on Monday. One of my friends. We are diminished.

John

acehigh
Blmgtn, IN, USA - Wednesday, November 2, 2005, at 09:32:17 (ZULU)

For political purposes the NYT grotesquely distorts a dead Marine's words. The formidable yet adorable Michelle Malkin straightens them out. Click my name.

The main stream media tells you whatever they want you to believe. Any resemblance to reality is purely coincidental.

CDC'
Wednesday, November 2, 2005, at 15:01:29 (ZULU)

I am looking to purchase two sets of factory 30mm Steyr scope rings. please contact me if you have any for sale or know where I might possibly find them.

A.Akiona

andy akiona
westminster, ca, usa - Wednesday, November 2, 2005, at 21:20:03 (ZULU)

Looks like a new up/coming training center in Virginia:

Go to: http://www.centralvirginiatactical.com/CVTgallery.htm

(or click on my name)

Anyone familiar with this facility?

Prayers for our Troops and Troopers

Take care all,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, USofA Under God - Thursday, November 3, 2005, at 03:28:34 (ZULU)

Dan: The prevailing attitude among troops is the media is against US. In varying degrees, this is expressed as merely a noted anti-military bias to outright cheering for our deaths and defeat. You know where I stand on this. Your example is a good look at the problem. 2000 KIA, and what battles did we win? If the only source of information was the US media, we'd all think this was a disaster for our forces, eh? This, the moonbats on the left, and their fellow travellers elected to office have me so spitting mad at times I "might" go activist myself. We individualistic-types stay in our own lanes...and consequently seem to be a minority---whereas the loonier of the left like to dance in the streets at every opportunity and thus seem like a larger movement than reality. I think the fun begins in earnest when we "normal americans" finally have had enough of these antics...

joe m
Thursday, November 3, 2005, at 06:44:07 (ZULU)

Hey all, I'm back on line. The hurricane wasn't bad (as hurricanes go), I'm sure Reverend Moe got it quite a bit harder than we did (thanx for your concern Moe!). We rode the edge of the Northern eye wall-no eye at all for us. The back of the storm was MUCH worse than the front. I clocked several gusts around 130mph. Got one gust reading 240mph and figured my meter crapped out until the tornado touched down in my back yard (while I was standing on the porch taking a wind reading)! For some odd ball reason, this thing jumped clean over my house-just before it landed in the back yard, it was out front uprooting a tree to drop on the wife's new Jeep. We took some damage from it, but not nearly as bad as it could have been. Still a mess, though- and the rain we are getting afterwards is causing more damage than the storm did. My rain gauge showed 5.5 inches in a four hour period two nights ago.

Larry, the shirt is on it's way. BKS, your probably a might busy now, but if you email me your dad's postal addy, I'll send a shirt out to him as well. I'd send some cash to help with the cause, but after patching the homestead up, I am tapped.

Marius, I need a postal addy to send that screw thru to you. It will be a while before I send anything out to Karel.

Dan, I'll be in touch soon. I just found out that our man with the Buff is not well and hospitalized, hence us not being able to get in touch with him. His son is running the cattle and hunting concessions now, and getting thru to him is a bear (that's just Africa, man). I told your buddy 75lb was the minimum for bow hunting buff, I lied-it's 90lb for buff, ele, rhino and giraffe. 75 for the cats. I'll put together an email of our progress and a prliminary itenerary for you this weekend to give you a good idea of where we stand.

Rob

Robert Martin
Thursday, November 3, 2005, at 12:27:26 (ZULU)

Rob wrote: "...The hurricane wasn't bad...I clocked several gusts around 130mph. Got one gust reading 240mph ...the tornado touched down in my back yard (while I was standing on the porch taking a wind reading)...".

Nahhh,...that's no big deal.

What, exactly, is your idea of "bad"? I, for one, wouldn't have needed my morning coffee after that one.

CDC'
Thursday, November 3, 2005, at 14:53:38 (ZULU)

torF,

You still out there?? Looking for info on a 6.5x55. I am going to cut a couple of inches off my burned out 6.5x284 barrel and make a 24" 6.5x55.

What are you using for bullets and what speed are you pushing them at?? What can I expect for barrel life at around 2850fps if I push bullets that fast?? Looking for something to shoot steel with that will ring it at 1000yds so you can tell you have a hit. Thanks!!!!!!!

Pat
Thursday, November 3, 2005, at 15:26:03 (ZULU)

Pat,

Converting a 6.5-284 to a 6.5-55: doesn't the 6.5-55 have a larger rim then the standart 06 rim? Would you have to open the boltface to switch?

Jerry

Jerry
Baltimore, MD, USA - Thursday, November 3, 2005, at 16:12:09 (ZULU)

Jerry,

Its only like .005 difference or something close to that. I don't belive anything has to be done to the bolt face. Just guessing though.

Pat
Thursday, November 3, 2005, at 16:59:34 (ZULU)

Hey, Rob Martin. If you liked WILMA, I don't want to be anywhere near you when a "bad one" lands! HA!

Moe

Moe Mensale
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Thursday, November 3, 2005, at 17:03:53 (ZULU)

Do you suppose the Frogs are still laughing at us?

And we detain al Qa'eda under conditions unsanctioned by Anmesty International.

Oh, excuse the f*** out of us. We sure wouldn't want to cramp thier style.

I used to think that political correctness was funny.

CDC'
Thursday, November 3, 2005, at 18:31:45 (ZULU)

Gents,

Am going to try to answer this in order of importance. OK it's open to interpretation...;-)

Joe M, Suppressor's/moderator's. Hitting you offline on this one. Have some contacts that may be useful to you...

Technology transfer should not be a problem, since Bill Clinton gave away MIRV technology to the Chinese anyway.

Where is Rick B? Come-on, folks. We KNOW where he is and probably what about...just no specifics. Probably better that way...then no one has to kill us...

Joe M, Soldier loads: Seems as though we agree on the concepts and loading required. It's situational...let's leave it at that. Probably no "right" answer anyway. Besides which, when shit hits the fan, you never have what you need anyway!

CDC, Had to whip out my Webster's and look up "mendacious". Couldn't agree more. This rates up there with Hollywood Stars going to the big Tsunami disaster to "assess the damage"...right.

Bolt-san, thanks for the info on .300 Win mags and SAW pouches. Just what have you been doing to know that??? You're like a Ballistic Missle Sub...You surface long enough to get ordinance out of the tube and then submerge, again. Will have to nick name you "Boomer".

BKS and VJ, Supporting 233 Platoons and still growing. Perhaps we all need to be bugging our congress critters as to WHY the government isn't supplying needed equipment?

NOTEWORTHY efforts...even the news media picked up on a "good thing".

The media reporting of events is definetely one sided and lacks truth and focus. Only the negative is newsworthy. IE, our cracking the 2,000 KIA barrier. None of the media EVER does an comparitive analysis of numbers and compares them to other targeted figures...

Haven't had solid reporting since the day's of WWII, Korea, and S Korea. We need to have media attached with and under military members,

SC "TECH TALK" forum needed? Wow, with terms like "trash, unscrewed, thing, and swivel grabber thing" I believe we need a glossary of technical terms for our understanding of the issues at hand...:-)

Books and T's: Like most here I remember the information about the SC tee shirt logo has been published here, before. All I can remember is that it was a Marine L/CPL. I'll claim old age and poor memory. Perhaps, the Death From Afar series has the information...

Will have to get "Shooter" and the "13 Cent Killers" for addition to the library.

Speaking of T's...when will we get another run of the SC shirts? How about an option of short sleeve AND long sleeve.

Rob, Wilma was't enough "woman" for you? Dude, I appreciate a rough woman, myself, but think you may be pushing the envelope a bit...

Bowhunting Buff's, Elephants, and the big five...Sorry, my testosterone level and size of my cahones never coincided with the need to bowhunt something that large! Think Fred Baer and a few others have done it.

Training: Why no big name training for Sniper Observer courses on the west coast? Perhaps, now that Clint Smith is in Central Oregon, we'll see some changes in this regard.

Pat, the 6.5 x 55 Swede show's a nominal case head diameter of .476" vice .473 for most ''06 or .308, respectively. Before I changed anything I'd see if the Swede's case head would work.

Looks like, at 54, I've finally hit my mid-life crisis. Would like to report that it's about red sports cars and women half my age, but, alas, it's not. Will be joining Bolt-san, and a few others, in the lurk mode 'til this is over and I'm back to normal.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Thursday, November 3, 2005, at 21:23:07 (ZULU)

Click my name for the info on the USMC sniper picture that you all were talking about.

LCpl. Dalton B. Gunderson passed away on September 2, 2000.

Wes, at the beginning of the Godzilla now known as AmericanSnipers.org, the brass had an excuse....even though we probably all knew that the system was broken then.

As well known as our organization is now, there is NO excuse as to why our troops are still scrounging. We've located many folks in the middle management (IE platoon and company level, LTs, Captains and a couple Majors) that want to take care of their troops and they're doing what they can to make that happen. One of those Majors walks amongst us here (one of the REAL good guys).

It is the higher folks that still don't get it....or if they do, they're awful quiet about it.

To steal a BK line, give us the funds for one F/A-18, and our snipers/DMs are SET!

AmericanSnipers.org

Vaughn Johnson
WI, - Thursday, November 3, 2005, at 23:33:23 (ZULU)

Gents,

Food for thought. It takes one hell of a smart and motivated individual(s) to go AROUND the process.

It takes a frigging motivated, bulletproof, and teflon coated GENIUS to FIX the process.

Sometimes, going around the process is detrimental in the long term to fixing the process. Unfortunately, when the lives of troops are on the line, waiting is NOT an option.

All for now, back to work. Chicago sucks but it sure is the hub of action in my line of work.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Friday, November 4, 2005, at 00:56:13 (ZULU)

I meant bad as a relative term. She wasn't a Rita, and was not nearly as destructive (for the Treasure Coast area I live) as the two hurricanes we went thru within three weeks of each other last year. Moe and points south in the Palm Beach/Broward county line area got much worse than I got, with sustained winds, not gusts, in the 130mph zone. Out sustained winds here were in the 110-112mph range. My 300 pound ass falls over at 135mph, so sure, I'll go outside and take a wind reading during a cat2 storm. I chase hippos and throw rocks, stalk buff barefoot with only a camera and walk down trails shared by momma rhinos with young calfs after running out of fuel with Jody Calhoun in the back of the truck, telling him to stay in the truck if he sees the rhinos (which he did a few minutes after I left him). My idea of fun makes a lot of guys wet themselves.

Robert Martin
PSL, FL, US - Friday, November 4, 2005, at 01:17:58 (ZULU)

"Looks like, at 54, I've finally hit my mid-life crisis. Would like to report that it's about red sports cars and women half my age, but, alas, it's not. Will be joining Bolt-san, and a few others, in the lurk mode 'til this is over and I'm back to normal."

Sir Wes, I wish I knew what a mid-life crisis was so that I would know if that's whats going on. Can't get straightened out here lately. Hard to concentrate on stuff for any length of time or sleep for that matter. I wake up at the least noise and can't go back to sleep. I'll go down to the shop and fiddle with all my gear (way too much gear) or mess around on the computer to kill time before I go to work. I've got so many projects going and just can't seem to finish them before I loose interest.

I've been putting together web gear for each rifle and messing with load carrying options. I figger if the aliens invade I'll need about a 100 rounds of 300mag to take out the space ships :) Came up with some more options about 04:00 yesterday morning that I'll post when confirmed. Working on 308 now also. Will need a couple hundred for the little green men in the first wave :)

Getting old sucks and I'm not doing it gracefully, Bolt out!

Bolt
NC, - Friday, November 4, 2005, at 03:00:35 (ZULU)

>>>You're like a Ballistic Missle Sub...You surface long enough to get ordinance out of the tube and then submerge, again. Will have to nick name you "Boomer".<<<

"Boomers" don't surface to release their cargo...

SC T-shirts, POCKET, POCKET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Friday, November 4, 2005, at 03:06:41 (ZULU)

Bolt,

Are you getting to the point where you can't get through 2 paragraphs in a hunting magazine?

I started getting thataway, and finally found out I have adult ADHD. Was pretty relieved, as it could have just as easily been a brain tumor or damage from one of the many concussions.

Tried Wellbutrin, but it made me more aggressive(I'm already too aggressive). The stuff I'm on now, Strattera, seems to be working better for me. I get good days and not so good, but man, on the days where it's really working, I can really seem to focus, study, keep track of numbers, etc.. I DID, however have some anxiety when I started a new job that I don't think was all attributable to the new job.

Hit me w/ any questions, if you like.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., - Friday, November 4, 2005, at 04:01:38 (ZULU)

Wasn't sure if the USMC was going to lay hands on these as well, I know the US Army was getting them as the XM110. I can only presume it is a similar package...and they won't say if they're replacing all the bolt rifles.......HMMMMMM

From the November 7th issue of Marine Corps Times:

New rifle keeps snipers on offensive — and defensive

MK11 is lighter than bolt-action gun, has 20-round magazine

By Christian Lowe

Times staff writer

The Marine Corps sniper, with his bolt-action rifle and high-powered scope, is an icon of the modern Corps.

Since the days when Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock — the father of the Marine sniper community — took out enemy forces in the steamy jungles of Vietnam, the Corps has remained steadfast, adhering to the precision and balance afforded by the old-school bolt-action sniper rifle. As the sniper’s motto goes: “One shot, one kill.”

Until now.

In response to an emergency request from II Marine Expeditionary Force commanders in Iraq, the Corps is purchasing 180 sniper rifles that for the first time would break from single-shot tradition. The Corps hopes to have the new multi-shot, semi-automatic sniper rifles in the hands of scout-sniper teams in Iraq by February.

Marine officials and snipers say the new rifle will help defend sniper teams in an urban battlefield, such as Fallujah, where multiple targets pop up faster than the current M40A3 bolt-action rifle can handle.

“The M40 is not ideally suited to some of the targets [snipers] are encountering,” said Maj. Patrick Cashman, who is in charge of developing infantry requirements for Marine Corps Combat Development Command in Quantico, Va., and is helping fulfill II MEF’s request.

“They need something that’s a little faster and they need something that can ideally assist them in the break-contact portion of their mission.”

So Marine Corps Systems Command decided to purchase 180 of the Titusville, Fla.-based Knight’s Armament-manufactured “MK11 Mod 0” sniper rifle — the same one used by Navy SEALs since 2000 — to answer II MEF’s need.

Though admittedly not as accurate at long ranges — from 800 to 1,000 yards — as the M40A3 sniper rifle, the MK11 is 6 pounds lighter and isn’t as long, making it easier for snipers to maneuver in the nooks and crannies of buildings and transport the weapon over long distances.

“You’re never going to get as accurate at a bolt-action rifle, but we’re talking about inches at 800 yards,” Cashman explained.

The 20-round magazine and higher rate of fire also helps make the MK11 a defensive weapon, eliminating the need for snipers to carry three weapons — the M40A3, an M16A4 carbine and M9 pistol — on their way to a hide, snipers say.

But an added advantage of the MK11, particularly in an urban fight where the enemy lurks among the population sharing the roads and alleys with Marines on patrol, is the rifle’s resemblance to a standard M16A4.

“One of the concerns is if you’re sitting in a sniper team and you have somebody observing your position and they see someone going out with what looks like a high-powered hunting rifle, they’re probably going to figure out what that guy’s job in life is,” Cashman said. “This looks a little bit more like an M16, so it assists you if you’re dropping off sniper teams.

“It could be two Marines, or it could be a sniper team.”

The MK11 can accommodate a silencer and is equipped with a bipod and rail-mounted long-range scope. It also fires the same high-powered 7.62 ammunition used with the M40A3.

“We wanted to get this capability as quickly as possible, and if we started having requirements for specialized ammo it would have delayed everything,” Cashman said.

A portion of the 180 rifles will be fielded to the sniper schools at Quantico, Camp Lejeune, N.C., and Camp Pendleton, Calif. The MK11s fielded to units in Iraq will be turned over to the sniper teams who replace them on following rotations, Cashman added.

The Army recently awarded a contract to Knight’s Armament for the XM110, a variant of the MK11, to replace the service’s M24 bolt-action sniper rifles. The Army plans to field 4,400 of the rifles through 2009.

Officials with Systems Command declined to comment on the Corps’ purchase of the 180 MK11 rifles — except to confirm the $1.2 million cost of the program — and would not say whether the Corps is looking to replace the M40A3 with the new, semi-automatic rifle for all sniper teams.

MK11 specs

Ammunition: 7.62mm (.308 Win.), M118 LR (combat use) and M852 Match.

Barrel rifling and twist: five grooves, right-hand twist with one turn in 11 inches.

Muzzle velocity: 2,571 feet per second.

Barrel length: 20 inches.

Maximum effective range: 1,000 meters.

Overall length: 39.5 inches.

Maximum height (w/20-round magazine and day optic): 10.25 inches.

Rifle weight (unloaded, without sights, adapters or mounts): 10.44 pounds.

Vaughn L Johnson
WI, - Friday, November 4, 2005, at 04:28:34 (ZULU)

From powerline: "... the whole idea that the administration would use Iraq's WMDs as a "pretext" for war is stupid. If the administration knew Saddam didn't have the weapons, then it also knew its "pretext" would be exposed as soon as the invasion was complete. No one would be dumb enough to go to war on the basis of a claim that was not only wrong, but would quickly be shown to be wrong."

Rob (re: Near death experience country): After I splatter one of those big cow's blood on my shooting glasses, we'll have a few beers and swap stories. I hear that Rick has some good ones.

CDC'
Friday, November 4, 2005, at 04:32:29 (ZULU)

Gents,

Geoff, thanks for the reminder of change. Guess I'm fighting an uphill battle, but it's not in my nature to sit back when our procedures could be so much better...for damn little cost. It is, however, making me a bit unpopular with a few of the upper echelon. Especially, those who look you in the eye, say they'll fix it, and do nothing. Not sure how much longer I can work in that environment. Maybe I'm just to used to being in charge and making those decisions...

Would be nice to see some positive change.

In the meantime, I'm going to start excercising some of my own options...

Who knows, may see some of you over yonder...someone has got to want a tired, broken down, old major, that doesn't have enough sense to look the other way and pretend all is "just fine".

Who knows what the future will bring? At 54 I should be looking at relaxing, but dammit would like to get into something where I can make a difference, again. Corrections isn't it...

I'll stop whining now...

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Friday, November 4, 2005, at 05:56:31 (ZULU)

Wes, the USMC is looking for retirees to pull (mostly) staff duty in OCONUS and CONUS too. I can't say the job's fun, cause it ain't, it's just neccesary. You know the deal, pay sucks, hours suck, job sucks, but you can feel good about yourself at the end of the day. I know a couple guys who are older than you who went with me to Iraq. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Friday, November 4, 2005, at 06:58:27 (ZULU)

Sir Wes: Thanks for the help. I appreciate it more than you'll ever know...

You said: "BKS and VJ, Supporting 233 Platoons and still growing. Perhaps we all need to be bugging our congress critters as to WHY the government isn't supplying needed equipment?"

It ain't at that level--it is at the battalion/ brigade level that fails our snipers. Perhaps division sets the conditions too. But the fix is hardly possible, except thru methods already known here. The commanders, with few exceptions, fail to see the value of high dollar outlays into small, elitist teams. The bigger portion if the force is the default spending pit. And, the "end of the FY" spree is often wasted on staff pogues with the access to these funds--ie, new computers, automation peripheals, etc. How this comes about is far too complicated to comprehend, but in the digest version: Lack of training for our officers. They do not know what Rick's capability gives them; Lack of experience: we are "up or out" at the expense of expertise at all levels; and of course, ego. If we could check that at the door, many other issues would go away by magic. Yeah, congress or DoD could mandate expenditures along these lines---but at that level, this ain't likely. Enter pandering and pork spending; these items in question do not rise to levels of political interest. It is the platoon leaders today who may be seeing first hand the value of the sniper who will progress to the BC of tomorrow willing to resource them that holds any promise.

Geoff: I can beat one guy at time into submission...but not a whole cohort year group. There aren't many prior-enlisted guys from my career fields to do this sort of thing, either. We tend to get pissed off and disgusted and walk away at the first opportunity. Me? I am both stubborn this way and a dumber than a box of rocks' eternal optimist who never knows when to quit...but I suppose that too is rare. Soem would say 'thankfully rare." Heheh.

The fix, short term, is to go scrounge not-so-broken stuff, and turn it around in volume; charitable good guys Like BKS, VJ and Deputy Doug doing their thing, and the resourcefulness of our better NCOs and enlisted troops. That is THE solution---nothing can alter so many people's precepts. BTW--short term is defined as 5 plus years, long term in this crazy cycle is decade plus. Took me the better part of 20 years to finally understand this. Ha! The problem is, the cycle is a repeater. Seeing the wheel go round again is kinda boring at times. "Ground Hog Dey'cade!" If Bill Murray thought living the same day sucked, try living the same 20 year cycle twice! Haha!

This is no cop-out; I learned the value of "do something, anything useful" long ago. I see the bigger problem for what it is---changing the whole freakin' army. Since that is a known losing battle, i find other ways, little ways to accomplish pieces of what I see needing fixed. Just a few doing this tends to solve much bigger problems. Now the argument about "if you don't let the system work, it won't work" is true enough and valid---but it is NOT an excuse to allow soldiers a disadvantage in war. The time to allow the fix was ten years ago---we are in a different part of the cycle now. Those recipients of this stuff know where it came from---and where it did not come from. They will be LTCs and CSMs someday---and they will never forget that fuzzy feeling they got in their belly from a hand-out from the Police Departments of America...you just do not forget that sort of thing...and the associated anger that the system failed them...this will linger in their minds forever. They may not fix it totally---but they will make it better when they get their chance. I've seen this before.

Its the same process that brought us away from the OG107 design in the late 80s: "These pockets look like ass out here on the parade field..." because these guys never wore body armor (flack jackets in those days) and the utility was lost on them. Well, now we are redesigning our war clothes yet again...with slant pockets and sleeve pockets too. Full circle, for a while.

Speaking of that, I got a letter of reprimand again:)) This guy says to me---"hey major---rip those goddam pockets off your sleeves right now..." Heheh. I said "that is the dumbest thing anyone has ever said to me...go back to your cubicle and think about what you say before you make yourself look so damn stupid again..." He did, but then he told on me. The fella "reprimanding" me couldn't help himself from LOL while it was going on. In all, a pleasant experience. Besides, I work for no one present in theater right now anyway...which makes getting fired and sent north problematic.

joe m
Friday, November 4, 2005, at 08:11:14 (ZULU)

On aging gracefully,

Have you ever been guility of looking at others your own age and thinking, "Surely, I can't look that old."? Well, then, you'll love this one!

I was sitting in the waiting room for my first appointment with a new dentist. I noticed his DDS diploma, which bore his full name.

Suddenly, I remembered a tall, handsome, darked-haired boy with the same name had been in my high school class some 40-odd years ago. Could this be the same guy that I had had a secret crush on way back then??

Upon seeing him, however, I quickly discarded any such thought This balding, gray-haired man with the deeply lined face was way too old to have been my classmate. Hmmm ... or could he ??

After he examined my teeth, I asked him if he had attended Morgan Park High School. Yes, Yes I did. I'm a Mustang, he gleamed with pride. "When did you graduate?", I asked. He answered, "in1959, why do you ask?" You were in my class!" I exclamed.

He looked at me closely. Then, that fat, ugly, old, wrinkled son-of-bitch asked, "WHAT DID YOU TEACH?"

acehigh
Blmgtn, IN, USA - Friday, November 4, 2005, at 09:44:14 (ZULU)

acehigh: Good one.

Wes: "...At 54 I should be looking at relaxing,..."

Screw that. An ex 82nd infantryman, ex outwardbound instructor buddy of mine taught a mountaineering class. I'll send you his name offline if you want. In the lecture he showed us a slide of a tame-looking old lady who took up mountaineering in her sixties. If I remember right, she climbed most everything worth climbing in the US.

That reminds me of a funny story: It was an easy credit, so a bunch of football players took it too. While we were arresting slides using ice-axes we noticed that, if you hit one spot just right, a guy would catch air. I noticed that lifting your knees in the air and sliding down on your back was faster, but you would have to flip fast when you caught air and dig in real hard with the ax, or things would get out of hand. It was COOL! Those kids thought that was a scream and they started doing it too. Naturally we began to compete for distance and coolest flip.

You have to picture this. Some old fossil (me) and a bunch of fit, agressive kids are at the last station, sliding down this mountain FAR faster than we were supposed to, flying up in the air, flipping, digging in, laughing, screaming and trading jibes like overgrown five year olds. My buddy was up top running cover for us with the rest of the class by pretending that I was showing them some special technique.

That was way better than "thinking about slowing down".

CDC'
Friday, November 4, 2005, at 13:39:26 (ZULU)

"...or things would get out of hand"

Come to remember, they did get out of hand. I missed the belay and hit the end of the J-line real fast. The upper anchor blew out and came back at me REAL FAST! It missed my head by about a foot so no problem. We dug it in deeper and went back to work.

<Correction: The lower anchor blew out, not the upper. Yee, haw!>

CDC'
Friday, November 4, 2005, at 14:05:27 (ZULU)

Wes / Bolt - I'm 39 and I feel the same way you do...either I'm mentally older than my years (which is highly unlikely, ask my wife)...or you are just normal, rational human beings in a time of high anxiety for folks that know right from wrong. Wes, I've found that 'the good fight' is required to fix pretty much anything these days... the decision makers today have an innate tendency toward entropy...probably has always been that way and we just took notice. You may have picked a trade that is just soooooooo far gone that it may be beyond your fixing...look for a lateral move (Sheriff's "Hasty team leader" would be my pick for you)... I sure wish you were in my AO, veteran, experienced leaders are in damn short supply here.

CDC - you need to take risks to be 'alive' (we both know that). I will remind you that you are in fact FAR MORE mortal than you used to be. I took a fall back in 2002 that kicked the shit outta me... the broken rebar I fell on failed to penetrate anything critical, but it wasn't that 'invigorating' sorta close call that one might expect. I'm still suffering from the torn 'trap'...nasty juju

ACEHIGH - you had a crush on a balding dentist?

TRAVIS - ADHD, PTSD....syndromes are not diseases....I could easily qualify for both based on manifest symptoms. I suck it up and drive on, it makes me stronger. I wonder if accepting and medicating would conversely make me weaker?

medicjim
Friday, November 4, 2005, at 15:43:34 (ZULU)

Joe:

Awesome post. I figured it out pretty quick that it isn't the politicians that are screwing our snipers ... it is their own damn people. Same exact thing in LE. They send you off to school and you come back after having gone through a true test of your mettle, learned so much, are ONE SELF MOTIVATED INDIVIDUAL and you have all these grand ideas about how to get the job DONE ... and they hand you a 14 with no magazine and NOTHING ELSE.

Or for the cops it's ... "Uh ... sorry. We do not need that capability here, are not going to do those things here and we do not have the money for any of that kind of stuff so forget it ..." Done deal. End of story. Hit the street ...

THEN ... some fucker takes a kid hostage and they are wailing like a Moslem woman on crack. OH MY GOD SOMEBODY ... DO SOMETHING !!!!!

They have no idea how to employ or deploy you, no idea what your capabilities are, refuse to think outside the box as they have never been to sniper school, but still think they know it all and do no want to hear from a bunch of "whiney", high maintenance, snipers who are ALWAYS asking for gear that that the other guys don't need and that ALWAYS costs a lot of money.

I have seen it every single day since I started and now I (at 43) am one of the OLD guys.

Most here know that I watched a guy shoot a baby one night in 1994. I screamed before it happened that we had no NV and were helpless in the dark. It is 2005, eleven years and countless callouts later and we ... still ... have no NVD. The bean counters do not care as they will be safe at home at night with momma when the pagers start going off and they will never have to face what we do. They want us out there ... they just don't want to hear about it. Necessary evil as it were.

And you can scream liability all you want ... they will roll the dice every time on the chance that it will never happen here ... even though it already has. They just choose to forget. Maybe it will all go away.

"Homeland Security" will fund all types of programs and bullshit ... but NOTHING associated with weaponry. Where the flock is the security in that?

Got this yesterday:

Hi Brian my name is Spc XXXXXXX, I am apart of the 101st Abn. Div. Asslt. I am writing in regards to your organization. I think it is amazing that people like you realize how the life of snipers as well as designated marksman are. I am currently in the new brigade here at 101st, Easy Co. 506th, the new band of brothers and us being a new brigade we don't have the funds for our sniper teams and marksmanship teams. We just received new M-14's for our unit and no scopes or anything to help us acquire and destroy our targets we are deploying here in the next month, for my third time and we asking how could we become apart of your organization. Guys are willing to open allotments for things donated we are in major need of equipment to help support and do our jobs the way it's supposed to be done, and your help would be greatly appreciated. The favor will surely be returned to keep a great organization like this running for future snipers in need.

Sincerely Spc. XXXXXXXX

Got this one the day before ...

I just have to gripe... I'm deploying pretty soon with inoperable sniper gear! My unit just refuses to fix it, or buy spare parts for me to repair it. My night scope (PVS-10) has a hole in the side of it and the windage and elevation knobs keep falling off. I'll probably just tape the hole and use loc-tite on the knobs for a temp fix. My Leupold scope has stripped screws on the windage knob!! Part of the basic issue for a sniper rifle is a deployment kit which contains most parts to fix the rifle, but somewhere it was lost and I have no spart parts or tools. I could really use a 65 in/lb torque wrench that comes with the rifle if anyone happens to have an extra lying around. In case you couldn't tell, my unit isn't providing my sniper team with any equipment, anything you all could provide would be greatly appreciated. My wife is already upset that I have had to buy my own gear. Anything you all could provide will be put to good use!

Sgt XXXXXXXXXXXXX

This is what our guys deal with EVERY DAY. I get these emails EVERY DAY from someone different in our military.

It is a soldier's right to gripe and it is damn sure our responsibility to listen to those gripes; ESPECIALLY if it will help them kill the enemy, save their friends and come home safely to the land they so staunchly defend.

If it was not for folks like Joe and Rick and Dave Liwanag and the instructors at the schools ... they would be hopelessly f23ked to the wall by their own COs.

Unfortunately SNIPER is not a career path that leads to the change making stroke that occurs at the very top. Same in LE. MOST cop snipers never make it past Lt. choosing instead to keep their hands dirty ... rather than their knees. Typical of the profile.

The poor fuckers in the sand and rocks are just glad that SOMEONE, ANYONE actually "GETS IT" and actually has the power (moreover the want to) to DO SOMETHING ... and is willing to help them because many times their own damn people just simply will not do it.

Our deal works because I do not have to answer to anyone in their chain of command and have already told several would be "flies in the ointment" to kiss my skinny Cajun ass.

I will do exactly what the flock I want and there isn't much I will not do for another sniper.

But ... I digress.

Charlie Mike.

brian k. sain
Friday, November 4, 2005, at 17:08:48 (ZULU)

Rx for mid life crisis- buy a Harley, shoot when ever possible and play with your grandkids.

Fred Hartman
Toledo, Ohio, USA - Friday, November 4, 2005, at 18:36:15 (ZULU)

REF: LONG TERM SOLUTIONS TO SNIPER EQUIPMENT ISSUES.

We, as Americans, have been "sniping" since before the French and Indian War.

If the problem was going to get fixed it would have been done within the last 250 years of our existence as a country.

American military (and LE) sniping POLICY should be a goddamned art form by now, with sniper specific SOPs set in STONE everywhere a sniper is billeted. It should be taught at West Point and everywhere else and implemented enmasse EVERY TIME we have boots on the ground where it is applicable. An enemy soldier should not be able to move openly ANYWHERE, without an American soldier, sailor or marine being able to put a hole in him within the capabilities of his SWS and ancillary gear.

Do they not remember the lessons of Kings Mountain, et al.?

But fixing the problem involves three biggies ... money, ego and power.

That and the fact that we always forget the lessons of the past.

Therefore it will never happen imnsho.

Pessimistic ? Maybe. Realistic ... I think so.

All of the guys that "GET IT" do not have the power or the authority to FIX it.

I hear some guys say stuff like "Your program is hindering the process because if the grunts are getting the stuff from you, then how are their supply guys supposed to know what they are lacking?, etc. etc. etc."

OR ... "We do not need you guys supplying range finders for untrained personnel to try and make an 800 yard shot when they might hit an innocent civilian" ...

I call bullshit.

Most of the times the guys have been assigned as a shooter but then are not given what they need to carry out their assignments. They have begged until they are blue in the face and are tired of being shit on or otherwise denied by an S4 or CO that doesn't give a shit about the details and only wants results. Which by the way, is fine for the CO but sucks out loud for the sniper.

As far as the untrained part goes ... don't put him on a sniper rifle if he isn't trained for it. Again ... who's J O B is that?

SOMETIMES (emphasized) these critical guys have a spec ops background and have never wanted for much in the quipment realm in their careers, they often have broad ROE and are not in the same boat as an ANG shooter who doesn't have a pot or a window and a cocksucker for a boss. OR the critical guys have forgotten what it was like to be a lowly enlisted man at the bottom of the food chain.

MANY NCOs and some officers even ... GET IT EXACTLY (Like Geoff here) and give all their own shit away to help the grunts.

Most of the time ... the guys bitching about me and mine have never done one fucking thing to help our snipers and are just looking for plausible deniability and an excuse so they can sleep at night because they aren't doing anything to take care of their snipers.

BOTTOM LINE: It is 2005. The United Sates Military should KNOW what advantages marksmanship plays in the game. They should KNOW what an advantage snipers can offer. They should KNOW that it takes boots on the ground and that we need to kill every one of those cocksuckers we can. They should KNOW what is lacking and needs fixing and there should be NO NEED for my program in the first goddamned place.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

I knew that going in; therefore we aren't going anywhere.

I say to the naysayers ... Wanna fix it? ... fucking show me something Hoss.

But don't tell me that what I am doing is jacked up because the man on the ground says it is working and that carries the mail.

Snipers and Designated Marksmen in 297 PLATOONS of the United States military have said the same exact same things over the last three years of this conflict.

How do I know that? ... because I asked them.

Novel approach huh?

brian k. sain
Friday, November 4, 2005, at 19:36:54 (ZULU)

Jim: I'm old and my kid-animal-durability is all gone. I fall faster, hit harder, get up slower and hurt longer. That's no reason to do the "full pipe and slippers" routine.

CDC'
Friday, November 4, 2005, at 20:03:30 (ZULU)

Sir Wes: Oregon Thunder Ranch has already run sniper classes. If the demand is there, Clint will train them.

Lindy
From an Undisclosed Secure Location, U.S.A. - Friday, November 4, 2005, at 20:07:58 (ZULU)

quote - "All of the guys that "GET IT" do not have the power or the authority to FIX it."

BKS - I admire and support what you are doing....I don't think you can sum up the entire situation with the above statement. While you may be able to provide a number of case examples of the above....I absolutely KNOW that it cannot be true across the board. The problem is more likely a very esoteric issue within the C&C system which manifests subtly in the wrong focus at the sharp end....

Find the subtle problem and PROVE the link to the consequence and I know there are folks that would fix it in a second.

Respectfully,

'medic'

CDC - agreed...now for a smartass alt. response....

by full pipe and slippers, do you mean the whole Hugh Hefner, rich dude with beautiful, shallow blondes hanging on ya, routine? If so, I'm up for it.

medicjim
Friday, November 4, 2005, at 20:08:03 (ZULU)

JIMBO:

I didn't think I tried to sum up the entire problem with one statement ... It took me two long assed posts to do it. lol

Medicjim wrote:

"The problem is more likely a very esoteric issue within the C&C system which manifests subtly in the wrong focus at the sharp end ...."

I concur with this statement and this is undoubteldy the case. However, I further submit that the problem is exactly the "superior" officer's lack of focus in a critical, esoteric AOR under his command and that this problem has been subtly manifesting itself across the board, at many levels and in all branches for years; which has resulted in directly and adversely affecting our snipers at the sharp end.

The subtle issues vary from command to command, officer to officer and this problem as a whole has been professionally brought as high as Abizaid's personal aid with word to "pass it on to the boss". But nobody is listening.

SOME branches have begun instruction courses for officers who might be deploying snipers which is "something" at least ... This MAY be one of those "Oh yeah, we are trying to change that" deals and make it look like something is being done because someone raised hell.

No problems under my command Sir!

IMO as a total outsider ... it will take huge change for this to manifest itself within the entire military.

Therefore, I am open for suggestions on how to suggest/facilitate change within the high command of the United States Army, Navy and Marine Corps; specifically involving esoteric issues (or any issue for that matter) involving the C&C of all branches with regards to sniper equipment/deployment within THEIR respective organizations ... by someone who exists ... outside of said organizations. lol

Say THAT fast three times ...

That said ... SOME officers are incredible leaders ... Buying stuff for their guys out of their own pockets because they DO realize what their snipers can do for them.

Bottom line:

I don't have the time or means to try and fix what the military should have fixed long ago ...

That is not my job.

But the indisputable fact is that GI Joe needs M14 magazines ... right now!

Not yesterday ... or when the problem gets around to being fixed ...

And I guess that one could opine that supplying the individual needs of every American Sniper/DM that asks for my help is not my job either (my wife's stance on the matter).

While I totally agree that it is not my job ... I also totally believe that it is my duty.

Sadly ... when this war is over they will forget about it all again just like they have always done ... until the next time someone flies a plane up our ass.

They don't want ME running that show Jimbo ... God would I love THAT job ...

But I can PROMISE you sir ... that our boys would once again represent a NATION that is defended by some shooting sons of bitches.

Just give me the money and get the hell out of my way ...

brian k. sain
Friday, November 4, 2005, at 22:19:19 (ZULU)

Gents,

Sweet Jesus! I really didn't mean to stir the pot. Looks like we've all got a few raw spots having to do with support, from the upper echelons, for the guy on the ground...

Probably the real scenario is the guy on the ground accomplishes the mission (somehow) and the brass sees that as validation of their superior "management" (see, they didn't really need that, etc.).

Unfortunately, this won't stop until we get some "been there/done that" guys in charge or senior officers who understand and trust the men they are responsible for leading.

So, we have management stumbling around, like a blind hog looking for a turnip, oblivious to the issue, because they are unable to understand it for lack of a 'reference' point.

Then there are those that just don't care, as long as they get the check mark on the Fitrep that says they were there and are eligible for promotion.

Heck, now you/ve got me on the bandwagon...

To be fair, sometimes the lack of support is self inflicted by the team itself. How many times have you heard the term "ninja, prima dona, arrogant prick(s), etc., applied because of the way members act?

A project I'm involved with has to do with getting bolt guns for the our Tactical Emergency Response Team(TERT). They have .223 Remington hand me downs, from the State Police, but want to transition to the .308 Winchester. Good move, I thought, but the closer I get to the issue the more problems I see. The team Captain and Lt. are unable to show how the weapon will be employed or integrated into the team. They don't even have personnel identified and trained, SOP remains unwritten, there appears to be no clear understanding of the issues involved. In short, it appears the laddies want new "toys". Note I said want, not need. Under those circustances I would turn them down. The Lt seems to think that since he was a shooter in a past life that he's going to climb on a bolt gun and save the day...right. We'll you get the picture.

'Nuff said. Need to let someone else vent for a bit...;-)

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 01:22:39 (ZULU)

>>JIMBO....<<

LOL....

Sorry BKS, guess that nerve is a bit more tender than I imagined. I'll leave it be...

>>serious now<< keep up the good work.

medicjim
Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 01:46:17 (ZULU)

Medicjim said:

"TRAVIS - ADHD, PTSD....syndromes are not diseases....I could easily qualify for both based on manifest symptoms. I suck it up and drive on, it makes me stronger. I wonder if accepting and medicating would conversely make me weaker?"

In response, I say, "YOU HORSE'S ASS!" I am more able to concentrate on details pertinent to not getting myself killed at work everyday, thanks to my meds.. There are no "recreational side effects". Just because you have a big mouth doesn't mean I quit driving towards my goal, it does not make me weaker; I simply choose to get help to make me better able to provide for my family.

As for "accepting and medicating", I suppose we're all weaker for not going out running on ruined knees and bad backs every morning? Am I somehow weaker for the bottles of advil in the glovebox of my truck?

YOUR disease is far worse. Ignorance can be fatal.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., - Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 02:40:53 (ZULU)

Jim:

Hey man the JIMBO thing is just a throwback to my construction worker days when EVERYBODY got a nickname ... so it's almost automatic.

Guess I gotta quit that ...

Same thing happened when I called Melendy "Kenny"

WOOOSAHHHHH ... Easy boy. lol

Hell I have been called InSain since the first grade ... kids can be so cruel.

Lest anyone think I personally was all drove up over anything, anyone said ... I had on my usual grin the whole time I was typing.

I been at this adopt a sniper thing for three years now and know the drill inside out.

The military upper echelon frustrates me ... but no one here does (except VJ).

No flames here on my account Jim, Wes or anyone ...

Best regards,

brian k. sain
Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 02:56:51 (ZULU)

Hey Jim (aka: horse's ass), what scope did you end up putting on your "range queen" 6m&m?

CDC'
Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 03:08:03 (ZULU)

"The military upper echelon frustrates me ... but no one here does (except VJ)."

Then my plan is working! LOL

Vaughn Johnson
WI, - Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 04:13:01 (ZULU)

This place is rocking again...

"Unfortunately SNIPER is not a career path that leads to the change making stroke that occurs at the very top. Same in LE. MOST cop snipers never make it past Lt. choosing instead to keep their hands dirty ... rather than their knees. Typical of the profile."

Too true. Every day i get up and put on my uniform, and i mean every damned day--I look at that silly-ass mustard stain on my collar and say "WTF???" I do not know how this happened, it snuck up on me and ambushed me. Things were cool thru captain...then, field grade happened and I had to get "creative" to slip away from staff gigs now and then. FG is a sorry rank til the command list at LTC, and then back to sorry afterwards til Brigade (which is nowhere in my future due to the 30 year LTC hard ceiling occuring before COL first look...something I never thought I'd ever think about)---and I often wonder why I did this officer thing in the first place--it was a short sighted "I can be a better team leader than these clowns" sort of thought process with no other thought whatsoever that got me here. I was truly happy as a SFC on my team...and I know I'd be a better CSM than some I've seen lately too. But, somehow, I slipped thru some loopholes and got where i am....and it is both amazing and funny as hell in my mind. WTF??? So, I LOL at that part of the post...

No leader shorts his troops knowingly--and that sums up the problem: They just do not know. The choice, from their perspective--is simply the larger bulk is getting taken care of at the expense of a few. In a constrained environment--that is justifiable. But, to some degree, any constraints right now are self-imposed. There is more money here than we ever had before---but the culture is to "be frugal" and it holds sway.

There are great guys who do this very thing...and there are guys who couldn't lead a cubscout trail hike doing it too. I never meant that we are ate-up top to bottom. Not true. We do have more ate-ups floating around, and more of these getting turns at command, and more folks letting this stuff be rather than telling someone they are ate-up; but this could be noticed due to my larger exposure radius at various levels. That said, I still suspect our kinder-gentler approach has bred some true incompatents. Thou shall not drink, thou shall not fornicate, thou shall not sing nasty songs, thou shall not use foul language "on the job," thou hath a job, and we do not discipline you anymore, thou gets where I am going...yeah, the new military culture--esp. in the army--is counter-productive to the true warrior spirit. We instead change the names of everything to warrior this and warrior that to compensate. But change nothing else. They just changes PLDC to warrior something or other...same silly drills. Hell, give me the reigns, and this new warrior class would have first-call announced by arty simulators, PT would kill the weaker among the students, and the classes would be in battle rattle with weapons, mostly in the woods, living in holes. For every class, the practical ex would commence with an attack...yeah, that is warrior shit. Not this in-name-only shit that we are passing off as "done." No, our business is killing people and breaking things...and words that offend someone is a red flag for that someone to go elsewhere and broker stocks or something. Heheh--as if being killed by our firepower is somehow not offensive to the dead enemies' loved ones....heheh. I just have to laugh at this stuff...otherwise, I go freakin' nutzo. Perspective, man, we need some.

Joe M
Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 06:25:21 (ZULU)

Gents,

WooHoo! Just in from a backyard stalk. German Shep acting up, so I investigated quietly. Caught enemy possum trying to infiltrate.

Suppressed Ruger MK II did the trick. One shot/one kill...

Neighbors none the wiser.

Now that IS job satisfaction!

S/F

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 07:40:16 (ZULU)

Holy shitzky, here it is 04:20 in the morning. Dough Lady had to be at work at 04:00 so of course I'm wide awake. Started channel surfing and low and behold I run across an infomercial for Girls Gone Wild. After finding those girations and stuff so shocking, I quickly surfed to the weather channel for a dose of reality. I now need some serious counseling. Mother nature did not intend on a 51 year old man being up this early and seeing this kind of stuff on the 'boob' tube.

Not only that, instead of going to the woods, I've got to friggin go into work this morning and have to pass up the morning hunt. It will be 75 bug scorching degrees this afternoon when I finally get there with son in law. The bucks will still be swimming in the creeks deep in the woods so they don't sweat their balls off in this friggin heat.

F-class matches are over for the year and the only thing left is to break out the AR's and learn how to shoot XTC. I can't shoot offhand worth a flip so this ought to be interesting (and embarassing).

I give up, Bolt out!

Bolt
NC, - Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 09:27:10 (ZULU)

BKS et al: The stuff you and others have written about the small (in DOD terms) amounts of funding your guys need would interest a larger audience. Have you considered trying to publicize your efforts on some of the more popular pro-war blogs? Powerline, for example, reaches a lot of people. A mention in "Instapundit" creates an "Instalanche" of web traffic from affluent, gun-owning, pro-war conservatives. One Instalanche would go a long way. Set a page up with a well-edited description of our guys' situation and a "donate now" button, maybe?

Joe M: Those bloggers listen to groups of active military officers. Dave may be game. You could get others. The more senior, the better. And the more, the merrier.

Just thinking out loud, here.

On another subject: You said that "No leader shorts his troops knowingly--and that sums up the problem: They just do not know."

There are just so many hours in the day. The higher a competent leader goes, the more goat copulations occur in his area of responsibility. At a certain level, the best leader out there spends most of his time just treading water. I can't imagine what Rumsfeld has to go through.

CDC'
Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 10:56:47 (ZULU)

"I can't imagine what Rumsfeld has to go through."

CDC, I call a certain amount of bullshit on this. It would be as simple as this short memo.

MEMO

TO: Joint Chiefs

From: Rumsfeld

RE: Funding for Sniper/counter sniper Operations

It has come to my attention that our sniper teams are at the point of requesting monetary assistance from private sector civilians to fund their equipment requirements. This is some embarassing shit that I will not put up with. The fact that our military cannot fund the most basic needs of the sniper teams makes me sick to my stomach. If civilians care enough to donate their time, money and equipment there is no excuse for your not doing your part.

Before 17:00 today, you will contact all area commanders and have a complete list of the funding requests on my desk. You will also contact a Mr. Brian Sain who obviously knows a hell of a lot more that you do concerning the handling of this matter. He will be put on indefinite contract to coordinate this effort.

That is all.

Management 101 - Problem discovered, problem investigated, course of action determined, implement course of action through delegation of responsibility, followup. This shit ain't rocket science.

Man, I am cranky this morning. Off to work, Bolt out!

Bolt
NC, - Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 11:53:59 (ZULU)

medicjim,

"ACEHIGH - you had a crush on a balding dentist?"

I knew someone would go there. No, not me, the chick in the joke.

Brian,

I think Dan may have a good idea with the blog thing. Lotsa folks can't pass up a "donate now" button. Meanwhile, you the man, keep it up. VJ, good on ya dude!

John

acehigh
Blmgtn, IN, USA - Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 12:13:25 (ZULU)

In the interests of trying to get something done today besides catchup on email & SC while listening to my wife's Corgies snore, I'll pass up the shots on unknowing management & blown opportunities.

Ken Hunter- the "traing center" seems to be just up the road a piece from our new farm. Lots of big old farms out that way. I've been working in Louisa for 18 years and never heard of the guy. Will put out feelers. I notice he doesn't actually give an address for his op. Wonder if he has all his county paperwork in place to actually operate? Nothing in the local paper which reports on dog bites & abrasions.

WR Moore
Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 15:20:05 (ZULU)

Hey Rob,

Those those rhinoes were frickin cool! Thanks for hooking us up for a view. ; )

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 16:12:59 (ZULU)

Click my name and check out the t-shirt ad. Many, many right-wingers see ads like that. Can you pitch snipersonline on an ad that small? Maybe get a freebie link and use some of the $$ to fund an ad like that.

Bolt: Management by memo-blizzard, huh? My wife's company had a CEO like that.

CDC'
Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 16:15:32 (ZULU)

re: Boresighters

(I know that their best use is to verify a prior setup).

Contrasting options on?

- Bushnell Magnetic Bore Sighter (magnetic)

- Bushnell Professional Bore Sighter (3 expandable arbors)

- Bushnell Deluxe Kit Boresighter (15 arbors in a roll)

- Leupold Zero Point Boresighter (magnetic)

- Cabela's Mechanical Boresighter Package (14 arbors in a roll)

Big price spread between the variants.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, November 5, 2005, at 23:26:03 (ZULU)

Todays M14 request:

Sir,

I met a soldier who told me about your organization. This is odd to ask another person for equipment that any normal solder would receive. My family doesn't support me being here and neither does my community; so the prospect of having a group out there that supports what I have felt in my heart for the past 11 years is right... it's odd. Then again... I find other solders in need of things that I have acquired over the years, and freely give it to them. Two days after I was issued my M14, my wooden stock warped from being in the rain. I have two magazines and boxes of ammunition in my magazine pouches. The solder I was speaking to said that he was getting sent a scope. This definitely would be a mood point as I don't have bi- od legs or a mounting system. I do not even know if this is the correct e-mail address. If it isn't, I apologize. On the other hand, if this is the correct address please let me know. I am good at what I do; however, having only two magazines makes me uneasy. Thank you for your time and patience in reviewing this letter.

Respectfully,

SGT XXXXXXXXXX

brian k. sain
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 01:31:56 (ZULU)

I have had numerous Officers contact me requesting assistance for their guys.

Kind of odd how it goes ...

With the Army guys it is mostly senior NCOs asking on their men's behalf. Now and then a Capt. will drop me a line.

But with the Corps ... it is Majors, LTs., AND senior NCOs.

These guys sound so young when they call and many buy stuff for their guys right out of their own pockets so I am not blasting all Officers by any means.

Joe, Sinister and others know the deal and even everybody here knows they are a Godsend to their folks.

But some of them (like anywhere) ... need a boot in their ass.

I guess what frustrates me the most is the fact that I have not served one day of military service and I can see the problem plain as day ... why can't they? Why don't they listen to these guys?

Are they not students of history?

But on the flip side ... LE is EXACTLY the same way in many regards.

Ask VJ, Doug Bourdo, Mike, Rich Johnson or any long time SWAT cop here. Our bosses are often clucking clueless when it come to tactical police work. It is a wonder we catch ANYBODY sometimes.

The operators and the citizens are the one's that pay for the higher ups stupidity ... and they will hang your ass out to dry in a heart beat if they get a little pressure put on them.

brian k. sain
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 01:46:33 (ZULU)

One more ...

Sir, I am currently stationed In Iraq with a direct support field artillery unit with the 101st. We have transformed into a maneuver unit have the same missions as our infantry brother's. We have taken a selected number of soldiers and turned them in to Sniper/Squad Designated Marksman capable of shooting with there standard M-4 up 400-500 meters with a degree of accuracy. Prior to our departure from the States we received M-14's currently we have no optics, optic mounts or bipods for these weapons. Now these weapons can not be used for the purpose of longer range shots with more effective stopping power than the M-4. Currently we have 9 on hand. If you could assist in anyway it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

John XXXXXXXXX

First Sergeant

brian k. sain
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 02:09:43 (ZULU)

CDC ... if you do a Google search on adopt a sniper ... the number of hits might surprise you.

We are on countless blogs. However, I do not know how many of them are the pro war type you speak of. Most of them are anti-war blogs blasting us ...

But regardless ... I will do whatever you think might help our snipers.

Hit me offline with a plan. Do you want to run with it?

Donations have slowed way down and we are hoping SHOT SHOW will be a boon for us like last year.

We are in Booth # 478 in LE this year. SHOT SHOW/NSSF comped us the booth and has been a great supporter.

brian k. sain
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 02:17:47 (ZULU)

Rod,I put my money down on a Bushnell with the 3 expandable arbors years ago and it has served very well.

The expandable arbor types use a tapered cone on the front end and 3 or 4 pads that open up several inches inside the bore.

The expandable arbors won't scratch the bore if your careful.

Once zeroed I make a reference in my log book so I can check zero without firing a shot.

The expandable arbor type aligns the Optical Line of Sight with the barrels centerline and after all thats the last thing the bullet is aligned to before it leaves for it's trip down range.LOL

The only thing I wish they would provide is a Parallex adjustment as

the alignment grid is blurry at 20 X but fine for the average scope up to about 10 X.

Regards,

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, US of A - Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 02:33:43 (ZULU)

BKS: Let's work something up right here. That would get more people involved and provide a record for anyone who comes in late and wants go get up to speed. I don't think Ken H, Marius, Sarge and Pete would mind. This IS Snipercountry, after all.

And as far as the right wing blogosphere goes, tell Dan Rather or Harriet Miers it doesn't exist. There are a bunch of Right Wing blogs and some of them are very pro-troop and pro-mission. Those blogs' readers are smart and they have $$$. Supporting our snipers' efforts to kill members of al Qa'eda in Iraq would appeal to them.

<02:03 that same night>

You're way ahead of me. It looks like you already did what I proposed. You got Michelle Malkin to link to your page. She is, of course, one of the Conservative blogosphere's heavy-hitters. Click my name.

CDC'
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 05:00:19 (ZULU)

"Winds of Change" is a top Conservative blog, and you got them. Click.

CDC'
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 09:24:21 (ZULU)

Then there's "Vodkapundit". Click.

CDC'
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 09:35:22 (ZULU)

And your "...webmaster has created sidebar-size banners for the bloggers who would like to support them." Click.

Hell, Tex, you already did most of what I said.

What do you think of the idea of having Dave, Joe and any other BTDT active brass who supports you approach some of the more respected defense bloggers? Instapundit regularly links to guys like that. You may be able to get Powerline and Instapundit to link to you. One "Instalanche" has the potential to get you far enough ahead to allow you to place an ad somewhere. That may, in turn, bring in enough $ to pay provide gear for our guys in the field and to pay for itself...for a while, anyway.

Hit me off-line to tell me how much that burst of activity raised. That may give me an idea of whether or not the above idea is worth pursuing or if my time would be better spent surfing the tube looking for Bolt's "Girls gone wild" video.

And for the rest of y'all: Do you have any thoughts?

CDC'
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 10:00:10 (ZULU)

Gents,

Another sleepless night. Just going over some of the intel available on the net. Some good, some bad, some bull shit...

Was contacted by an old buddy last night and we had a "catch up" phone call. He's on the cutting edge of ammo technology. I'm getting a small batch of the latest development stuff to test. WooHoo! Will report back. All I can say for now is this is NEAT SHIT!

Brian, my membership in ASA came in last night. Cool. Hopefully. I can contribute in some small way.

Gotta run...large COLD dog nose, with 90 lbs of German Shep attached, wants to go out...

More, after tomorrow.

Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 12:23:22 (ZULU)

CDC:

Back when Marquette University made their young republicans quit selling our "1 shot, 1 kill, No remorse, I decide" dogtags ... grin

That was big news and the bloggers in both camps went ape. CNN, FOX ... ran it on their ticker at the bottom. That was right after SHOT SHOW last year and the units serving during that time surely reaped the benefits thereof that is for sure.

We raised more cash off of those kids getting shut down than we ever would have from their fund raiser.

However, the sad truth is that many of our contacts have given way more than their share and we hate to keep asking them. But the units signing on have not slowed down so I guess we are going to have to get out there and PIMP some more.

The industry is behind us for the most part but you know how folks and money are.

A man will tell you what kind of disease is eating his life away or about all of the chicks he has on the side, or whatever his most private thoughts are ... but ask him what his credit card number is and see what happens.

Just the way it is.

Miss RITA canked my plans pretty hard. I needed a break but not that way. The money still comes in from actors and good folks like those here but it is a trickle and the M14 issue is KILLING US. That and optics. I could buy nothing but M14 stuff and glass and call it good.

Adoptasniper could be a full time job for all of us if we had the time.

I truly wish the government would give me the money and the AUTHORITY to fix it MY WAY. Never gonna happen.

During RITA, they put me over the individual needs of all first responders. They wanted me to sit in LOGISTICS and fill out FEMA forms for this and that and do it the FEMA way. i.e. Not get up because someone might need to ask me something ... Fuck that shit.

Not the way I do business.

I got a Nextel and a pickup. By the time I fill out some form, track a cop down to go get it, tell him what we need, where it's at, who to talk to and what to say ... I can do it myself. If you need me hit me on the hip ...

The friggin' FIRE Chief finally told them "You guys need to let that boy go do what he obviously knows how to do"

It rained fucking gear/food and drink for three weeks so maybe the Good Lord had a plan for me by getting this adopt a sniper experience ... who the hell knows?

But then me and the adoptasniper guys have always had to beg/borrow and scrounge stuff for our PDs and we have been doing so for years before adopt a sniper came along.

Working on PVS 22s for my snipers right now ...

But as usual ... I digress.

Bottom line is, I am open for suggestions.

In the first three years, many folks had not heard of us. One strength we had was that we were all cops. I hand picked every one of them so integrity was not an issue.

When folks called (and they still do) and said "How do I know this is for real?" ... all I had to say was "Call our Chiefs and ask what kind of cops we are"

That pretty much did it for the integrity of the program issues.

Some folks DID call and the Chief did give them the skinny but there have been NO ISSUES in that regard.

Proverbs 20:7 A righteous man walks in integrity.

If you guys want to get involved (with Marius, Ken and Sarge's permission of course) ... then by all means get a plan together and lemme see it.

Professional Looter

brian k. sain
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 14:08:37 (ZULU)

This mornings M14 letter: 11-6-05

Hello Brian,

My name is Sgt XXXXX and I am a sniper with the 101st Airborne. My M-14 has a composite stock and that's about it. I am in dire need of a scope, rings, rail system, bipod and anything else would be icing on the cake. Last week my truck was hit with an IED and my M-4 was lost due to the fire. I will be using my M-14 as a primary weapon as well as it's intended use. If I can get a rail system I will probably put a PEQ-2 laser for night fire. I feel like a little kid asking Santa for everything under the moon. I realize these things cost alot of money and there is a limit on how much an organization can do so if you cannot help, I understand. God bless your organization for all the help you have already done. My address is:

Sgt. XXXXXXXXXXX

BKs NOTE:

This is just ONE GUY.

Do the math for the monetary cost of the things he is asking for.

We have 235 platoons of guys to try and take care of so we have indeed created Frankenstein ... Happy Halloween. lol

brian k. sain
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 14:27:44 (ZULU)

Sain, I just sent an email to Laura Ingram of the Laura Ingram show. She seems like good people, is a shooter and a military supporter. Told her the problem, gave her a link to the site and your name. Who knows, maybe you'll get a plug on her show. Might do the same for Limbaugh.

Bolt

Bolt
NC, - Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 14:45:53 (ZULU)

The US Army Sniper School classroom burned to the ground on Sunday, 31 October 2005.

The classroom and student supply building were destroyed. The tin walls and roof still stand, but the entire building was gutted. Inside are GI wall locker hulls and the steel frames of shitty old GI furniture and huge piles of ash.

I stood inside it on Thursday with Master Sergeant Frank Velez and the Commander. All the momentoes (photos, class plaques, art, training aids, souvenirs, everything) are gone. All the display stuff has been lost.

Infantry School put in an emergency 2 million dollar purchase request to replace the school's spotting scopes and stands, but of course all the presentoes and sniper student issue stuff will have to be replaced.

If you have anything sentimental or historical that can help re-decorate the classroom once it's rebuilt (maybe in six months to a year) Frank is asking for your help. All the displayed history from Class 1 in 1987 has been lost.

sinister
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 15:10:36 (ZULU)

Sinister: If you get a minute, I'd like for you to scroll down and tell BKS and me what you think of our latest hare-brained scheme.

BKS: Each guy averages how much $$. How many guys per platoon?

Limbaugh is a good guy but this doesn't seem like his cup of tea.

Hannity may be approachable.

CDC'
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 16:02:10 (ZULU)

Click my name for Mark Steyn's excellent perspective on the war in France. The temptation is to gloat, but this is not good. Not at all.

Call me a "simplese barbaire" (sp) if you want, but I think it is time for Napoleon's "whiff of grapeshot". Do you suppose the Frogs still have the balls?

Me either.

CDC'
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 16:26:36 (ZULU)

Another one: "...what they have is an Islamist revolt against French society.

"The solution of the old Catholic France was, over the centuries, that of Charles Martel: victor at Tours in 732 A.D., where the advance of Islam on Western Europe was stopped. It consisted in a frank realization that two civilizations were clashing, where only one could prevail.

"The choice was relatively simple: victory over the invaders, or death and servitude.

"The modern, enlightened alternative is "negotiation". Good luck with it."

CDC'
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 16:35:23 (ZULU)

BKS: That 101st unit--I think they are the lucky dawgs who i bumped into right after I bumped into a raptor 6x...if so, it is a start in the right direction...I also dumped about 80 aimpoints on them...they were quite surprised, to say the least. I only wish i had about 300 smith enterprise mounts though. That would kinda help. I doubt i will scrounge those anytime soon. I did find a acog (M4-NSN model) though---those are scarce too. I used the parts off a trashed acog to make this one right...And until the next round of connexes come in---things are drying up. I done scrounged it all. Heheh.

Now, Elcans I have...plenty and more. If these guys can mount them (rail of any kind will do)--they will work in a pinch, and the tree ought to track a M14 very close as it is similar to the M240 it is designed for. Better'n nuthin...

I also have a few (5-6) PVS-4s (3rd gen) with M1913 rail adapters. Not bad stuff with the upgraded tubes...

That dude who said he uses a PEQ-2...ask him if he wants a PAQ-4 instead. Lighter, and i have all the mounts too. Get me his addy if he is good with an upgrade. Some like the two beams, though. Me, I'd rather cut the weight...

joe m
Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 18:45:31 (ZULU)

From the www.blogsofwar.com,

"Perusing the blogosphere, I get the sense that many Americans think this is related to the war on terror--I want to reiterate that the French treatment of Muslims is not far from 1930s America and its treatment of blacks. Militant Islam may be exploiting the deep anger of French Muslims, but its not the driving force.

Hmmmm, I see.

John

acehigh
Blmgtn, IN, USA - Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 19:33:19 (ZULU)

re: Boresighters

Authorized repost of a private communication on the topic from one of the Roster Hogs currently "running silent":

To begin witht the Lazer models are BS and usually don't work. Same for Magnetic ones.

The only advantage is that they will work on the Assault rifles where the scope is mounted too high above the bore for the Arbor types to work.

The multi arbor models don't fit tight enough for some of the things I use Bore sighters for.

My favorite is the 3 expandable arbor Bushnell.

YOu can use it in addition to zero verification for the following. 1. Confirm the amount of travel in elevation and windage on any scope you have mounted.

2. You can check each click of you turrets to be sure they make the required travel and return properly. Much better than the old shoot a square routine because you can verify the operation of each click and the amount of backlash it has.

3. You can check return to zero which might be considered under the # 2 use above but this is over a larger area.

4. You can switch scopes either on the bench or in the field by leaving the boresighter in place on one that's zeroed and bringing the new scope to the exact zero and it will be within 1 click everytime.

5. You can verify the zero on the power ring at every power setting by observing it as you you change powers from top to bottom.

6. You can see when the vertical or horizontal travel actually stops as you probably know it is now when things stop clicking but usually before that. All the above can be used without wasting valuable ammo or scaring off the quary at a hunting camp or a sniper hide.

Of course, the 3 expandable arbor unit is the most expensive :-(

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 23:35:56 (ZULU)

"Militant Islam may be exploiting the deep anger of French Muslims, but its not the driving force."

Poor, poor militant muslims. They were driven to murder 3,000 New Yorkers, hundreds of Brits and who-knows-how-many Indian Hindus. The pathetic dears strap bombs on little girls to kill Jews. The lovable waifs place bombs on trains to kill Spaniards. Look at what they were forced to do in Bali. Twice. Now they are trying to smash the culture of the country that ran cover for them in the UN. I could go on and on about how my heart f****** bleeds for how those misunderstood little moppets are forced to kill anyone and everyone - regardless of race, creed, color, or anything else - who doesn't kneel before thier pre-medival superstitions.

CDC'
Monday, November 7, 2005, at 03:46:16 (ZULU)

Hello,

I thought it was time I introduced myself. Im Glen from Idaho Im a long time reader, but haven’t posted until now. Im just a regular civilian thankful for guys like you that are keeping me safe.

Brian,

It makes me sick to read those letters you receive. I know I promised some scope rings and you will get them soon. I’ve been working hard on them, but on limited funds. I’ve got the first few sets done, so it’s going to be any day. I wish I could help more and faster, but im sure you understand.

I may have a lead on some torque wrenches also. I should know more in a few days.

Glen

G.Seekins
Lewiston, ID, USA - Monday, November 7, 2005, at 05:01:47 (ZULU)

Here's a bit of back-up to what i saw myself, and mentioned it here:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47255

It may sound like a scattered problem; it may sound a bit overblown. But I tell you, I saw stupid shit first-hand that could have gotten me or Morgue (or both) killed; and, I DID THESE INVESTIGATIONS on our soldiers in the aftermath.

The first thing I would do, long before I could get out to the AO--is to talk to the first-line leader and explain, without stepping too far over the line, that this sort of stuff is the new routine and that if there is a shred of "fear for life"---there is no worries. The brass, sadly, does not see the freakin' fear factor of the dreaded investigation. That too I saw first hand.

"It's only a 15-6, Major...If the kid ain't got anything to worry about, what is the big deal?" (I tried to go with the SITREPs on one of these)

Fuckhead actually said that. Here's the big deal herr General: That kid needs to know that he can trust you and that you trust him. If a Captain cannot tell you a battle report that can be believed without attached sworn statements--then we are in a sad way.

Dropping sworn statements and rights' warnings on his head does that trust in...

This investigation stuff is just one aspect...but the ROE that fails to allow judgment of the ground commander is something I am not aware of. If true---this is f*ckin' dumber than dirt.

I have my own ROE---it is based on the big document--but is infinitly easier to comprehend, and to implement. And I know for a fact it will stand up to a court, AR32, or a 15-6.

Heheh: All I need to do is articulate a threat, a threat to my very core, and it is a good shoot. And, I am a creative bastard:))

Unfortunately, my views are borne on experience of giving as well as receiving scrutiny. I am as comfortable with these conditions as anyone needs to be---not to say I like this crap--but this gives me a leg up on most in understanding this problem and working inside of it. Too many see a 15-6 as a conviction being "asked for by the general." It just plain scares the piss out of those not used to them.

It is a symptom of the draw down. Everyman for himself in the early 80s year groups; they stabbed many a back to stay in during the bloodletting. Now, they have an instictive mistrust of all officers.

The corallary: An officer who cannot trust his brother officer is one miserable sad lying sumbitch himself.

Heheh. Little article. Big attitude. All my obvious hot-buttons fall under "duty, honor, country." Wanna spin me up---cross these lines as I define them. My definitions are derived from history's select few; men like Schofield for treating subordinates right, Chamberlain for thinking and acting like a leader, TR for melding personality to the postion (be yourself)---heh--the list goes on.

To read a GENTEXT INSUM on the results of a shoot, then ask a few questions specificly---from a brother officer no less---and now I see everything I need to see. It ends there in my mind. I go in front of the cameras and give "our side" to counter the terrs' lies.

To do all this up to the camera part, only then to launch a investigation to prove/ disprove the veracity of my brother officer is beyond me. If I "think" I have an integrity problem with my officers---he will not be in position to render these reports.

Now, if we have guys like that out there flitting thru the system---WTF does that say about the assclowns currently launching these investigations? Did they perhaps shrug off some hard decisions along the way and allow this to happen? Heheh---it is a two edged sword. If they are right and the officer corps is full of lying scum (they are not, IMHO), then it is their freakin' fault for letting that crap happen. If they are wrong, and most all officers will render the truth when asked (I see this as the case largely)--then they are wrong for destroying trust and cohesion.

Either way--these assclowns are ate the hell up with terciary syphillus. This is a rot in my army---and it deeply offends me.

Someday I may really crank it up and tell you all how i really feel about this. But, this calm, rational discussion should provide a clue.

Joe M

joe m
Monday, November 7, 2005, at 07:11:13 (ZULU)

After the first few cases of investigatory BS, the patrol/team leaders quickly learned to say the right things. IME, the USMC was a little better about supporting the troops and not 2nd guessing them, but I know that guys are leaving things out of reports because they will raise needless questions from those who don't know WTF is actually going on. That opinion was based on about three weeks of a US Army Bn, who was new in country, so it's very likely that they got sorted out soonest. The biggest issue is the disconnect between those that are doing, and the staff guys that are watching/listening. It's all fun and games until you've got a car swerving at you in traffic and you have tenthes of a second to decide whether to shoot or not, let alone ponder if it's actually going to matter if it's actually a SVBIED going down "this time." A very useful thing to do is to take every staff officer out with a patrol, especially the battle captains, so they know a little bit of what it's like on the do-er side. And that's a routine 4 vehicle or squad sized patrol, not some special giant armada. Make them RTO, so that they know to avoid the "death by POSREP" crap from Bn and also how communication gets garbled as transmitted from the field to the TOC/COC, even if only due to the need for brevity, let alone junk comm gear.

Hell, I guess you might say this kinda crap does wonders for unit cohesion. I always did a AAR after every contact just so we could all agree on the official story as well as determine what actually happened. 4 or 5 or 18 different perspectives on a thing as confused and complicated as a gunfight can really lead to things going south if certain "facts" found their way to the wrong ears. I really stopped caring so much that it was the "truth"; only that everyone could live with it for the rest of their lives. Hell, I'm still learning new facts about a gunfight I got into a year ago while talking to the other guys who were there over beers. Assumptions I made back then were totally off once little details came out in conversation and get re-examined in the luxury of unlimited time and comfort. But that sort of thing is completely irrelevant while you're in the middle of actually fighting the fight and EVERYONE needs to agree on and believe that point. I suppose it's all residue of that "zero defects" peacetime garbage. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Monday, November 7, 2005, at 07:46:08 (ZULU)

I have a Bushnell boresighter. I've boresighted enough rifles by now that I rarely use the boresighter for ... boresighting. Looking through the barrel with the bolt removed and lining up the scope with that will get me on paper.

I use the Bushnell to get me closer to my actual zero if I have to put my backup scope on my rifle during a match. The backup travels in rings, zero'd, and ready to mount. The boresighter will get me very close to the actual zero once the scope is replaced, which is especially good if the match director won't allow me to re-zero by shooting. To do that, you need to record the boresighter position when the scope has been zero'd on the rifle by shooting, and return it to that position after the scope has been remounted.

As for checking reticles, power rings, and elevation clicks, below is a procedure I use for that.

The problem with checking scope elevation calibration by shooting is that it's subject to the usual uncertainty when shooting a group.

I check the scope calibration by putting the rifle in a fixed position with the scope reticle pointed at the top of a ruled measure, and checking the reading on the ruler as I crank the elevation up from a 100 yard zero.

A ruled measure which can be read easily at 100 yards to an accuracy of at least a quarter inch can be constructed simply. Take a four foot length of lumber which is at least 2 inches wide - a 1X2 will do fine. Take a tape measure or yardstick, and make pencil marks every inch of the length. Starting at one end, place a fluorescent orange 1" Shootn'C dot, with the centerline of the dot on every inch line, lining them up very carefully. At every inch mark which is divisible by 5 with no remainder, 5 inches, 10 inches, and so on, place another 1" Shootn'C dot along side the first, so there are two. That allows you to easily determine where you are.

The rule I made, actually, only has dots between 35 and 40 inches, because that's really all the range I care about, but feel free to use up the entire length of the stick if you wish.

You can read that ruler with a 10 power scope easily at 100 yards to an accuracy of at least a quarter of an inch, because a half inch will be at the bottom of a dot, which is also where that dot touches the one below it, and the quarter inch mark will be halfway between the dot center and the bottom.

I prop the rule up 100 yards away. The easiest way is to put your 100 yard zero on, put the rifle on the top of the ruler, and watch the elevation change as someone else cranks the elevation knob, but you can do it youself if you have a good front rest - a bipod with a PodLoc will do - and a solid hold on a rear bag. Crank the elevation knob with your shooting hand, and repeat several times for accuracy.

When checking, remember that 1 MOA at 100 yards is actually 1.047 inches, so a scope which is cranked through 36 MOA should actually move 37.69 inches, or just a hair under 37 & 3/4 inches.

I now do this regularly, and certainly every time I remount a scope. It's fast and easy to do. I've seen several shooters in the last year show up at matches with scopes which didn't have sufficient elevation to shoot 1000 yards. I also used this procedure to verify that the elevation clicks in my Leupold 6.5-20X50M1 were off by 5 percent, which at 1000 yards is 2 MOA. Five percent at 1000 yards is twenty inches.

Lindy
An Undisclosed Secure Location, U.S.A. - Monday, November 7, 2005, at 12:15:38 (ZULU)

LINDY: Good post.

JOE M: Welcome to law enforcement ... lol

Will try and get with the 101st.

GLEN: Don't sweat it. Whenever you can. Money is tight everywhere ... especially here on the Gulf Coast so people are doing what they can. No worries on the rings. We are holding at aboooouuuuut 230-235 platoons now. It finally stabilized at that number a few months ago. It was steadily rising even though units were coming home, rotating in and out. Kinda leveled out. Thank God.

CDC:

I make no claims to have any knowledge about the military from within because I have never served a single day in that capacity. So I am going to lay this out in my good old boy, construction worker (no college), common sense way just because ... it is the only way I know.

I do not think high ranking, "sniper friendly" officers in the military are going to be able to buck the system because ... they are a part of it. And I do not mean that in a bad way.

This is going to be a Forrest Gump simple analogy but ... these guys are forced to play by the rules, within the enormous amount of red tape that IS the US Government (I experienced this up close with Hurricane RITA). These officers have other soldiers/marines under their command, they have just so much budget for everyone, etc. etc. etc. Plus they may have to work for some cat who is well above their pay grade and for whom a sniper is just one big pain in the ass ... until he needs them. (Kinda like SWAT is to a PD).

NOTE: Snipers and SWAT are kind of like electricty. One doesn't really think about it much when you don't need it but you have to pay that bill very month whether you use it or not ...

i.e. As that relates to snipers ... you always have to train them, buy them expensive stuff, you don't always need them ... but boy when you flip that switch ... you sure as hell want them to come on and work PERFECTLY every time.

But back to the topic at hand, I think that most of the officers that CAN assist their snipers and know enough about the job ... are doing EVERYTHING within their power to effect change and help their shooters.

Some officers are smart enough to know that they know NOTHING about the job but they see the end result the snipers have brought upon the enemy and they trust their snipers enough to allow them to operate the way they were taught in sniper school.

Guys with huge egos (everywhere) just can't wait to take their dick out and show you that theirs is biggest ... especially if you back them into a corner and tell them they are screwing up.

So I do not think it would benefit the sniper friendly officers to take some type of overt stance on the matter that would force them to lay their Johnson out on the table; only to get it smacked hard and possibly have them removed from helping at all. This would hurt not only that particular officer's career but the guys they were trying to help as well.

SOME guys (like me) will lay that Johnson out there time after time and DARE someone to smack it. And someone always does ...

As far as the US military goes, I am outside the system and in many ways ... untouchable. After all, we are just humble citizens ;) sending CARE packages and there is no law against that. That is a strength for us imo.

However, there are rules that exist about soldiers accepting gifts, blah, blah ... that could be brought to bear against the guys and we have even experienced a little of that. i.e. Retribution on the part of jealous officers because these "snipers" are receiving friggin' truckloads of gear from some SWAT cops back home ... and they ain't getting any of it.

We have had officers opening the guys mail and taking the guys stuff ... yessirree. We have had guys trying to finance their elk hunting gear needs at home off of us. We have had guys sending gear home that should be used and left for their replacements. Guys claiming to be snipers ... THAT ARE NOT. Everyone here who knows me AT ALL ... should know how THAT ONE sets me off like a roman fucking candle ...

The above are VERY isolated incidents but with as many people as we are taking care of ... there are going to be some shitheads that slip through the cracks. Officers AND enlisted.

Most of the time when the REAL snipers find out what is going on ... they pretty much police the problem themselves. And I have friends in places high enough up that can usually make most problems go away.

However, changing the SOPs and mindset on SNIPING/SNIPERS in the entire military ... is beyond my/our capability and much better men than us have tried. Land, Hathcock, Cuddy, Powell, etc. etc.

If it paid, I could make a career out of lobbying for sniper's rights ... lol

But GI JOE ... needs a magazine for his M14 and he NEEDS IT ... right fucking now ... So my time is spent on that front, to that end.

You gotta always remember too (and I know you do ... not talking down to anyone here) that the big brass is mostly conventional and snipers are somewhat "special". They have different weapons, gear, and needs than everyone else and even though they are often superior soldiers or marines ... Therein lies the rub.

Seems to me they look at the bigger picture for the most part.

But what the hell do I know? I am not a professional soldier ... just a damned old journeyman lineman.

Back to work!

B.K. Sain

IBEW Local # 390

brian k. sain
Monday, November 7, 2005, at 15:08:24 (ZULU)

BKS: "I am going to lay this out in my good old boy, construction worker (no college), common sense way just because ... it is the only way I know."

I worked construction for 30+ years so that should be good enough.

"I do not think high ranking, "sniper friendly" officers in the military are going to be able to buck the system because ... they are a part of it. And I do not mean that in a bad way."

I don't think that I said anything about "bucking the system".

"... (officers)have just so much budget for everyone, etc. etc. etc. Plus they may have to work for some cat who...for whom a sniper is just one big pain in the ass ... until he needs them."

Check.

"Guys with huge egos (everywhere) just can't wait to take their dick out and show you that theirs is biggest ... especially if you back them into a corner and tell them they are screwing up."

Absolutely. So don't tell them.

"I do not think it would benefit the sniper friendly officers to take some type of overt stance on the matter that would force them to lay their Johnson out on the table; only to get it smacked hard..."

Agreed.

"As far as the US military goes, I am outside the system and in many ways ... untouchable. After all, we are just humble citizens ;)"

"...sending CARE packages and there is no law against that. That is a strength for us imo."

Perzactly.

"...we have even experienced a little...Retribution on the part of jealous officers because these "snipers" are receiving friggin' truckloads of gear from some SWAT cops back home ... and they ain't getting any of it."

Some people never really leave kindergarten.

"But GI JOE ... needs a magazine for his M14 and he NEEDS IT ... right fucking now ... So my time is spent on that front, to that end."

That's a good thing. But you need more money.

What I'm thinking is this: There are people out there who have the power to bring your project to the attention of people who can provide funding. And, if you could get thier attention, some of them would be happy to help. But there is competition for thier attention. Let's take one of many possible examples: Hannity would listen to Powerline. Powerline would listen to Blackfive. Blackfive would listen to Joe and Dave. They, in turn, would listen to you. If you - Brian K. Sain, private citizen - got on Hannity's radio show, you would have an opportunity to promote your efforts to get that good kid his M14 mag through private channels.

I certainly am not asking someone who pulls as little weight as a Major or a Light Colonel to try to force change on the DOD. That would be hunting pachyderms with a paint-ball gun. The best that could happen is nothing. The worst is that the paint-ball guy could get stepped on.

CDC'
Monday, November 7, 2005, at 16:10:27 (ZULU)

CDC:

Roger on all counts.

If Sean Hannity will let me on his show ... I will damn sure lay it all out for him.

brian k. sain
Monday, November 7, 2005, at 17:55:51 (ZULU)

Okay, Tex; let's kick it in the ass.

I wrote: "But there is competition for thier attention. Let's take one of many possible examples: Hannity would listen to Powerline. Powerline would listen to Blackfive. Blackfive would listen to Joe and Dave. They, in turn, would listen to you. If you - Brian K. Sain, private citizen - got on Hannity's radio show, you would have an opportunity to promote your efforts to get that good kid his M14 mag through private channels."

Let's take that in reverse order:

1.) BTDT Mil officers talks to respected Mil blogger(s),

2.) Mil blogger(s) talk to pro Mil bloggers,

3.) pro Mil bloggers link to you (you've seen significant $ there before),...

4.) and try to leverage that to put you before a large radio audience.

Step 1a) Find BTDT Mil officers that will talk to Mil bloggers like "windsofchange", "blackfive", etc?

Step 1b) List of milbloggers to approach.

If you do 1a, I'll do 1b.

This is OJT for me. Is there a publicist in the house?

CDC'
Monday, November 7, 2005, at 18:35:29 (ZULU)

The Goddamned Frogs used to be game as Hell. Let's hope thier gene-pool wasn't completely wiped-out at Verdun.

CDC'
Monday, November 7, 2005, at 18:43:31 (ZULU)

Oh right! ... give me the hard part ... lol

I truly do not know how much luck I will have there pal. I would have tried it already if I thought it would work. Seriously.

I just do not think there are many BTDT officers that will go out on that limb ... and then cut it off behind them ... because that is surely what they would be doing.

That's how they GOT BTDT status ... lol

Most will want to do it covertly. From the shadows and draw as little attention as possible. Once again ... typical of the profile.

brian k. sain
Monday, November 7, 2005, at 22:35:03 (ZULU)

BKS: Covertly is fine. I don't even want to know who it is. We just need someone who can get the ears of a few milbloggers.

CDC'
Tuesday, November 8, 2005, at 00:12:33 (ZULU)

BK WROTE: "Most will want to do it covertly. From the shadows and draw as little attention as possible. Once again ... typical of the profile."

By this I meant that most will (some already are) want to help covertly ... in their own way.

Getting the attention of bloggers is hardly covert and they run the risk of getting spanked for their trouble.

Me ... I don't give a shit if syrup goes to a dollar a sop ... but these guys have much more to risk by being vocal.

Just dunno CDC ...

I think it is a great idea. I just don't think I am going to generate much interest from those inside the loop in the higher ranks.

Too high profile. Too much risk.

Sooner or later someone is going to ask "Where are you getting your info from?"

The old "I could tell you but I would have to kill you" line always draws a bullshit flag ... and I refuse to give up a CI. (Confidential Informant).

Will throw it out there and see what hits it bud ... BK

brian k. sain
Tuesday, November 8, 2005, at 01:49:09 (ZULU)

BKS: Do you need info? It looks like you need, say, Blackfive to tell, oh, Powerline that you are doing good work and Powerline can help. Then you tell Powerline what you are doing.

You may want to try eliminating the middle-man and contact some of the mil-bloggers yourself.

Why not? You're reputable.

Let's give that a try. I'll do a little research.

CDC'
Tuesday, November 8, 2005, at 02:02:21 (ZULU)

Boys -

I’m proposing a special rifle raffle and I ask that you consider what I have to say.

This posting may be a bit long, but please read it.

My father, Arnold C. Smith, passed away yesterday at the Veteran’s Hospital in Salt Lake City. He was 84. His funeral and burial will be this Friday (Veteran’s Day). He served in the U.S. Army in New Guinea and New Britain during WWII. They supported the 7th Marines and he saw action. One day, he began coughing up blood so they sent him back home. It turns out it was bronchiectasis. While he was in the hospital he broke out with malaria. It was the first case of malaria showing up after a soldier returned back to the U.S. and no one recognized it or treated it for several days.

His doctors told him the bronchiectasis would leave him with bad health and that he would die young. He refused to accept this and put himself on a disciplined exercise and diet regimen and outlived all of his doctors. He has raised a family and he lived a good life.

Bronchiectasis is a chronic respiratory illness and I new that when he went, that pneumonia would get him. He has had bouts of pneumonia in the past.

A bad infection from an abscessed tooth brought on the pneumonia this time. He was admitted into the Veteran’s Hospital in Salt Lake. His recovery was a roller coaster ride with each peak a little lower than the previous one. He didn’t respond to the antibiotic treatments and we were told he wasn’t going to make it.

AND NOW, THE REST OF THE STORY AND THE REASON I’M WRITING…

The staff at the VA was very concerned and did their best to treat my father. They told us they had a hospice suite where my father could spend his last days. I was at work when my sister told me he had been moved to the hospice suite. When I arrived that afternoon I was pleasantly surprised when I walked into the room. The carpeted hospital room is in a small side hallway on the second floor. Soothing music was gently playing from a stereo in an entertainment center. The room is furnished with several recliner chairs and a small couch. There is a small table and chairs and a small fridge for the family. Nursing and staff service is EXCELLENT, from James Floyd, the hospital director, down through every person on the staff. Such compassion and caring! My father and the family were very well cared for during this hospice stay.

This is how our vets are treated there. Now, for the important part: the room was the idea of a male nurse at the hospital and his father. Glen and John Ishmael got approval for the construction of the room. The room is supported by private donations.

I was so impressed by the room and the staff that work there that I am selling my rifle and I’m donating all of the proceeds to support the hospice suite. The whole family is making a donation and this will be my part.

I would like you boys to consider a rifle raffle for this. I think it is a fitting way to turn one coin into many coins, if you know what I mean, for our veterans. I’m left handed so there may be a limited audience.

Rifle Specs:

Savage 10FPL .308 Winchester 24” bbl.

Tasco 10x42 Super Sniper scope on Leupold base and rings

Timney Trigger

Flip-up bubble ScopeLevel

The stock forearm has been reinforced with push rod pieces embedded in Marine Tex.

The stock near the trigger has been slightly modified to prevent “dragging wood”.

It shoots .8 on a bad day.

WHAT DO YOU SAY?

The minimum value is $1000. I think that a raffle can net much more than that. If there is no raffle and someone is interested in the rifle, you can contact me offline after 11/14/05.

Thank you,

Scott C. Smith

(Old Ironsights)

scottcsmithusa@yahoo.com

Scott Smith
Tuesday, November 8, 2005, at 02:21:50 (ZULU)

It looks like the Muslim/French "youths" are giving the Left a lesson in "Multiculturism". Let's hope our Libs take notes.

BKS and whoever: Quick drive-by. Click my name and check out the milblog links on the right of the page. You probably know that there's a whole bunch of sites that share our attitudes toward supporting the troops with more than yellow ribbon car decals.

CDC'
Tuesday, November 8, 2005, at 15:10:55 (ZULU)

My department is going to a new helmet config which will necessitate the use of eyeglasses for protection while performing some types of rescue. I figured I'd ask the 'at risk' types here what they are buying for eye PPE.

Money is no object when my guy's safety is concerned and it wouldn't hurt one bit if the solution looked good as well.... some of my guys need all the help they can get <g>

Specs - must support both clear and tinted lenses, have some impact rating and should not be 'rescue specific', as I want these things to come off when the guys are firefighting.

medicjim
Tuesday, November 8, 2005, at 20:58:19 (ZULU)

MedicJim,

What kinds of things are the specs going to protect them from? Most of the guys on my team have Gargoyles for entry work. I think they're okay, but don't offer the changing of lenses.

A couple of us have Oakley M Frames with the STRIKE lens. And finally, the Wiley-X SG-1 goggle/glasses system that we've sent overseas to our troops. My understanding is the military is issuing them to many units.

Vaughn Johnson
WI, - Tuesday, November 8, 2005, at 21:31:12 (ZULU)

Oakleys are the way, ANSI rated and cool looking. Offer a pretty good .mil/.gov pro deal, as well as prescription lenses.

If you're looking for something better(as in higher ballistic pro), there's stuff out there that's got V50 rating of 850fps and better, even some up to class IIIA, but that's getting awful heavy. I run a triple thickness goggle from bulletproofme.com with tearoff's but next time I'm headed over, I'm going full face shield for vehicles and Oakleys for general wear/patrolling. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 01:58:05 (ZULU)

Medicjim:

Lots of people wearing ESS stuff. Troops, aircraft carrier deck hands, etc. etc. etc.

Hit google for their site ... they send us a lot of stuff.

Good folks.

brian k. sain
Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 04:24:03 (ZULU)

Old news but still cool to watch ... I think anyways.

http://www.americansnipers.org/themovie.htm

brian k. sain
Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 04:33:32 (ZULU)

(edited to replace query with URL)

URL for ESS:

http://www.essgoggles.com/

Tried Wiley-X SG-1 w/prescription replacements lenses,

had a lot of fogging issues. Disappointing given what I spent.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 04:37:26 (ZULU)

Eyewear. I am reminded of the motto: "Don't matter what ya do as long as you look good doin' it..." Often said after a cocked-up operation.

WileyX do fog up. I hate them. Geoff likes my old pair for watersports though, eh? Good for the jetski thingy he plays with...

Oakleys M frames: Good stuff, and looks cool too. Especially with my blue iridium lenses...heheh. I wear these when i wish to find creative and thought-provoking ways to tell someone to F.O...

My battle wear is Smith district sliders, though. I have four sets of inserts, and they go where I go---always. I trust them and I look kewl wearin' them. What more do i need?

And there you have it: Spec the specs, and then go with design that does it for ya. To each, his own...

joe M
Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 06:42:37 (ZULU)

Yea, I bought the WileyX glasses as well and they sure as hell do fog up! You would think that they would "fix" the design before going to market with these!

Pretty frustrating spending $ and then the damn things are pretty useless.. Argh! I should have asked first....

mike1000
LG, CA, - Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 07:12:02 (ZULU)

Gents,

Didn't mean to start anything with the comment about fixing the process. Guys need the stuff, and people like Joe and inSain make sure they get it. I do think it's fantastic. I just wonder about the "other side of the coin" so to speak. Bolt had the right idea with his post/simulated letter.....THAT is what needs to happen. It's too bad it will not.

On the Wiley's: YES they do fog up. I used them on a training day and they fogged badly even in moderate temps. Being the sick guy that I am, while I was trying to find my damn front sight through them I decided to keep them on rather than give in. After all, it's not supposed to be easy, right? :-)

However, as a contact lens wearer, I have found that they are absolutely smashing for the water. I haven't figured out if it's due to the water splashing on them, or the airflow that keeps them clear. They just work. On land, they get stowed.

Sinister, good to see you back sir. Sorry I do not have any worthy historical stuff to send.

Handloading:

Who wants to post their favorite mag length 77 grain match .223 loads for a 1-7 twist?

How about a good CLEAN and accurate .45 load using 200 grain HP, with good velocity and low flash? I can't afford to test a crapload of powder and will need to order stuff to make up a batch of 45 soon.

I have been using Bullseye, however it smokes like a frigging black powder rifle. Also have tried Win 231, seems to have more "bark" than even factory ammo with moderate loads, and also seems to top out in velocity pretty quick.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 10:20:42 (ZULU)

Geoff,

I use titegroup for my 45...it is not a clean powder, but smoke is no problem. Our own "Bravo" has done an unbelievable amount of powder testing for handgun rounds...if you can get hold of him, you'll have TOO MUCH INFO on the topic <g>.

Thanks everyone on the eyewear question... I'll post on the final outcome in a few months.

medicjim
Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 14:12:14 (ZULU)

testing...

Marius
Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 19:21:41 (ZULU)

Oakleys are the best in my humble opinion..

I own a lot of Oakleys, bought my first pair of Frogskins in 7th grade and have always rated the name..Blades, then Razorblades, then I got into the M-Frames and Zero's..Reason I was big into my dark specs wasn't vanity, but because I was big into track and cross country in high school and college, and most my time was spent outside..Spent many hours in blinding SoDak sun and concrete roads. Winter wasn't much better, in skiing and snowmobiling, the glare off the snow would leave you blind for some time...Always had a pair of Oakleys on my head when hunting...Have been shot in the face a few times on SoDak pheasant hunts(pushers vs blockers), 2 which drew blood, and if it weren't for eye protection might still be wearing a pirate patch..

The M-Frame(aka 'Mumbos') are excellent shooting glasses, as they fit fairly close to the cheek and tight and comfortable to the head..Takes one hell of a hit to knock a pair of mumbo's off your head..Interchangeable lenses from clear to the iridiums for any light condition, only downfall is the nosepiece and rubber bits on the earpieces can get a bit gooey if you wear them out in hot weather all day, but I usually kept a supply of both so could change them out when they started getting squidgy..

Never really rated the Gargoyles, they just didn't fit me as well as any Oakley..

Expensive, but well worth it..Oakley has excellent customer service..I've run well past warranty a few times and they replaced all parts new without question..

JR
Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 19:44:24 (ZULU)

Here's a good story. Kinda long but worth it. Sorry if it's been around before but it's new to me:

Not so long ago and in a pasture too uncomfortably close to here, a flock of sheep lived and grazed. They were protected by a dog, who answered to the master, but despite his best efforts from time to time a nearby pack of wolves would prey upon the flock.

One day a group of sheep, more bold than the rest, met to discuss their dilemma. "Our dog is good, and vigilant, but he is one dog and the wolves are many. The wolves he catches are not always killed, and the master judges and releases many to prey again upon us, for no reason we can understand. What can we do? We are sheep, but we do not wish to be food, too!"

One sheep spoke up, saying "It is his teeth and claws that make the wolf so terrible to us. It is his nature to prey, and he would find any way to do it, but it is the tools he wields that make it possible. If we had such teeth, we could fight back, and stop this savagery." The other sheep clamored in agreement, and they went together to the old bones of the dead wolves heaped in the corner of the pasture, and gathered fang and claw and made them into weapons.

That night, when the wolves came, the newly armed sheep sprang up with their weapons and struck at them and cried "Begone! We are not food!" and drove off the wolves, who were astonished. When did sheep become so bold and so dangerous to wolves? When did sheep grow teeth? It was unthinkable!

The next day, flush with victory and waving their weapons, they approached the flock to pronounce their discovery. But as they drew nigh, the flock huddled together and cried out "Baaaaaaaadddd! Baaaaaddd things! You have bad things! We are afraid! You are not sheep!"

The brave sheep stopped, amazed. "But we are your brethren!" they cried, "We are still sheep, but we do not wish to be food. See, our new teeth and claws protect us and have saved us from slaughter. They do not make us into wolves, they make us equal to the wolves, and safe from their viciousness!"

"Baaaaaaaddd!", cried the flock,"the things are bad and will pervert you, and we fear them. You cannot bring them into the flock. They scare us!". So the armed sheep resolved to conceal their weapons, for although they had no desire to panic the flock, they wished to remain in the fold. But they would not return to those nights of terror, waiting for the wolves to come.

In time, the wolves attacked less often and sought easier prey, for they had no stomach for fighting sheep who possessed tooth and claw even as they did. Not knowing which sheep had fangs and which did not, they came to leave sheep out of their diet almost completely except for the occasional raid, from which more than one wolf did not return. Then came the day when, as the flock grazed beside the stream, one sheep's weapon slipped from the folds of her fleece, and the flock cried out in terror again, "Baaaaaaddddd! You still possess these evil things! We must ban you from our presence!".

And so they did. The great chief sheep and his court and council, encouraged by the words of their moneylenders and advisors, placed signs and totems at the edges of the pasture forbidding the presence of hidden weapons there. The armed sheep protested before the council, saying "It is our pasture, too, and we have never harmed you! When can you say we have caused you hurt? It is the wolves, not we, who prey upon you. We are still sheep, but we are not food!". But the flock would not hear, and drowned them out with cries of "Baaaaaaddd! We will not hear your clever words! You and your things are evil and will harm us!".

Saddened by this rejection, the armed sheep moved off and spent their days on the edges of the flock, trying from time to time to speak with their brethren to convince them of the wisdom of having such teeth, but meeting with little success. They found it hard to talk to those who, upon hearing their words, would roll back their eyes and flee, crying "Baaaaddd! Bad things!".

That night, the wolves happened upon the sheep's totems and signs, and said, "Truly, these sheep are fools! They have told us they have no teeth! Brothers, let us feed!". And they set upon the flock, and horrible was the carnage in the midst of the fold. The dog fought like a demon, and often seemed to be in two places at once, but even he could not halt the slaughter. It was only when the other sheep arrived with their weapons that the wolves fled, vowing to each other to remain on the edge of the pasture and wait for the next time they could prey, for if the sheep were so foolish once, they would be so again. This they did, and do still.

In the morning, the armed sheep spoke to the flock, and said, "See? If the wolves know you have no teeth, they will fall upon you. Why be prey? To be a sheep does not mean to be food for wolves!". But the flock cried out, more feebly for their voices were fewer, though with no less terror, "Baaaaaaaadddd! These things are bad! If they were banished, the wolves would not harm us! Baaaaaaaddd!". The other sheep could only hang their heads and sigh. The flock had forgotten that even they possessed teeth; how else could they graze the grasses of the pasture? It was only those who preyed, like the wolves and jackals, who turned their teeth to evil ends. If you pulled their own fangs those beasts would take another's teeth and claws, perhaps even the broad flat teeth of sheep, and turn them to evil purposes.

The bold sheep knew that the fangs and claws they possessed had not changed them. They still grazed like other sheep, and raised their lambs in the spring, and greeted their friend the dog as he walked among them. But they could not quell the terror of the flock, which rose in them like some ancient dark smoky spirit and could not be damped by reason, nor dispelled by the light of day.

So they resolved to retain their weapons, but to conceal them from the flock; to endure their fear and loathing, and even to protect their brethren if the need arose, until the day the flock learned to understand that as long as there were wolves in the night, sheep would need teeth to repel them.

They would still be sheep, but they would not be food!

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Thursday, November 10, 2005, at 01:56:59 (ZULU)

I also use Titegroup for 45ACP. Minimal smoke and dirt just isn't something I ever paid attention to. Guns get shot, guns get cleaned. More problems from dirt from rolling about on the ground and other fun stuff than from filth from firing.

77gn bullets: 24.0 N140 or RL-15, OAL 2.255, WSR primer. Some guys run 24.5, depends on the tube. S/F...Ken M

Ken M
Thursday, November 10, 2005, at 01:59:14 (ZULU)

What powder that will get a 230 truncated cone or gold dot going 870+ in a .45 acp Gubment model is best for flash?

Warne maxima rings: I hate these things. I don't know what to torque them to. You can't lap them. To remove the scope you have to disassemble the rings thus there is no "return to zero". Assembling them and getting the scope square is a PITA. Bad design, pure and simple. Junky old Weavers are much better. $30 flushed.

CDC'
Thursday, November 10, 2005, at 03:43:01 (ZULU)

Rings: Badger for crowbar rifles and Burris Signature Zee for hunting guns. Warne Maxima weaver style bases are nice IME. Never used their rings.

Anybody else had problems with JBM's lead calculations? I was running some data on a 338 Lap in order to figure out whether I should sell a kidney and buy one and the lead function kept giving me crazy numbers for the close range leads on 3mph 90 degree targets. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Thursday, November 10, 2005, at 04:00:03 (ZULU)

CDC- 5.8 gr WW231 provides 910 fps out of the Bar-Sto in my 1911. Your milage may vary. 6.5-7.0 Unique does quite well too, but doesn't meter as consistantly.

WR Moore
Thursday, November 10, 2005, at 04:30:26 (ZULU)

Gents,

Lest we forget, November 10th, is the 230th anniversary of the United States Marine Corps. Friday, the 11th is Veteran's Day.

Traditionally, during these times we set an single table and place setting, complete with sword, gloves, and cover, to represent those who could not be there...those who have made the ultimate sacrifice.

Today, our service men and women continue to honor their beliefs, Armed Services, and Country by responding to attacks by terrorists. Pray for them, their safe return, and an end to the conflict.

Thank all of you who have served our great nation. I am humbled by the company I have kept...

Semper Fidelis,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Thursday, November 10, 2005, at 05:47:24 (ZULU)

The French government is in crisis: They can't figure out who to surrender to.

Thier next lecture on the subtleties of relations with Middle-Easterners should be amusing.

Pat sent me a file named, "Why there was no looting in Texas". It was a photo of a plywood and spray-paint sign surrounded by about a dozen men. The sign said, "Drunks with guns, you loot, we shoot". The men were smiling, drinking beer and carrying guns.

That photo makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

The "Bush lied, people died" lie is nuked at the attached link to the well-respected "Commentary" magazine.

CDC'
Thursday, November 10, 2005, at 13:53:52 (ZULU)

Geoff M:

No apology needed here pal. No way did I take that wrong.

Everybody that's been here a while ... kinda knows who is what and what drives them ... you are just fine in my book bud.

It just seems to me that the sniper friendly guys within the military (no matter how smart/experienced they are) don't get listened to much more than I would when it comes to snipers ...

And while we are beating it all back and forth amongst ourselves ...

GI Joe still needs a scope mount for his antique M14 and some extra mags so he can go and kill the enemy.

brian k. sain
Thursday, November 10, 2005, at 17:36:23 (ZULU)

Medicjim: I suggest ESS Ice glasses for your guys I know that they are good eye pro. that is what my unit is issuing us here in Iraq and I know some guys that have been wearing them while out on patrols that got hit by IED's and they sure stop the debris from getting to their eyes. They also are interchangable they come with the, Clear, yellow and dark lenses and are quick and easy to change also come with a case and string to attach so that if you take them off they hang right around your neck.

Everyone else: Just thought I would say HI and let everyone know that I am doing good here in the "Sandbox". Also just as an update on my wife she is doing good and so is my unborn son Austin.

Dad: Just thought I would say HI and that I miss you and mom and everyone else tell everyone I said HI and that I love them and miss them and I hope that you can make it to NY for Austins birth.

This is Sarge Jr. Over and Out

"To The Top"

Sarge Jr.
Fort Drum, NY, USA - Thursday, November 10, 2005, at 17:56:35 (ZULU)

Jody,

The sheep have armed themselves against the wolf, now they need some gear and intel to fend off the Welshman in wellies(I can hear JB now, arrrgh!!!)..Maybe some night vision, heartbeat sensors, set out some electrically charged decoys on cliff sides, etc..

PeteL, you know Jon gets riled up about the whole sheep shagger thing, and it's all in fun(you knows it JB), but for some reason if he moved to America he would like to live in Montana...Why a Welshman, trying to rid his sterotype, would want to move to a state where the Yankee sheep shagging jokes come from..Hmmm, hahah..

Folks,

I've been researching a product for removing carbon fouling(the real crusty stuff, dreaded ring) from the barrel for a few months now, isn't on the shelf stuff, and have received a shipment of the concoctions just last week, made for my specifications and my type of stainless steel...Have done a few trials on some pieces of fouled barrel with very good results..In the next few months after much testing will be working to develop a user friendly application..I think I just might have found something that actually works..Will keep you all updated as it unfolds..

JR
Thursday, November 10, 2005, at 18:48:20 (ZULU)

Son, WY 6 as always!

Guys have a semi-off the wall question for those out there that are into C&R stuff. Want to built a Faux Sniper on a Enfield No.4 Mk 1 or 2 rifle. I have a repo cheek piece and know where to get a scope mount that will work, but what I'm having trouble with is finding a scope that looks sort of like the original British #32. Now I'm NOT looking for an original or even a repo but some modern glass that looks CLOSE to the No. 32. Any suggestions, leads etc??? This will be primarily a "play" rifle and possibly my hunting rifle, the .303 is a knock down round!

Thanks!

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Thursday, November 10, 2005, at 21:14:50 (ZULU)

Happy Birthday Marines !!!!!!!!!

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, US of A - Thursday, November 10, 2005, at 21:45:01 (ZULU)

I'm looking for info on a Parker-Hale .308 cal Bolt

> action.

> This is what I found inscribed in different places on the

> barrel:

> Parker-Hale Ltd., Birmingham

> CAL 308 W

> BNP (With a small crown above the letters)

> 91309 (Just below the scope on the opposite side of the

> action)

> Importer: Jana Denver, Col.

> That's all I could find. I am definitely not an expert on

> this type of arm. [I just found out it 'might' be a 1200Super]

> If that doesn't help, I have several close-up shots of it

> and can send the photo files vial email.

> My father bought it used from his friend back in the

> 1970's, and used it once. It's such a nice firearm, it

> seems a shame to let it go to waste. All the mechanisms

> still seem to opperate perfectly, but I want to completely

> dismantle it, and do an intense cleaning, etc. Also, a

> slight cosmetic overhaul is in order. I want to know

> where I can find manuals, kits, accessories, and proper

> ammunition (W?) neccessary to complete this task. I'd like

> this gun to be in full sport use condition. I want to hunt

> it and do some targeting. I am not necessarily a

> collector. For some reason, the Parker-Hale site won't

> come up, and neither will the site of the company that

> bought their 'Rights'. I didn't get very far with Gibbs

> Rifle Co and John Rothery Wholesale either.

> Yours was one of the sites that came up in my search, so I

> thought to seek you out and ask.

> Any help or links of any kind would be greatly

> appreciated.

> Thank-you in advance

Curt Busch
Greenwood Lake, NY, USA - Friday, November 11, 2005, at 00:37:26 (ZULU)

Happy birthday Marines.

De Oppresso Liber to all my Veteran commrades in arms.

Thank you all for preserving the USA and what we stand for!!

TonyY

TonyY
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Friday, November 11, 2005, at 01:36:29 (ZULU)

Hi Curt,

Welcome aboard. Sounds as if you may indeed have a 1200. The first centerfire rifle I ever bought, and still have, is a Parker-Hale .270. One of my pals "needed" a deer rifle and asked me to go shopping with him. My wife, of that era, said," Don't you dare buy a deer rifle!" My reply was, "Don't worry I'm not taking my check book". I did manage to "not" buy a scope; but I fell in love with the rifle and bought it. Damned near got me divorced! That came much later and is another story. Think I paid all of $140 for the rifle back in 1970 something. Pretty rifle and shoots well. So far it has killed one Arizona jackrabbit and one Wyoming antelope. It's a basic Mauser action and very well made. Any good .308 ammo should be just fine. I personally like Winchester's 168 grain Ballistic Silvertip for use on Whitetail deer. Hit me off line if you need any more info.

Happy Birthday to the United States Marine Corps and Semper Fi to all of my old MARCAD buddies who helped get me through Navy pilot training. This old NAVCAD will always have a soft spot and a cold brew for the Corps.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The chilly Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, November 11, 2005, at 01:53:57 (ZULU)

This is something that was passed on and I'd like to share it. I'm a proud American and veteran.

I was sent this interesting stuff cleanup language. A hot wash from a young

Marine just in from the combat zone... Don't think there is any political

comment only a young man's observations from being there. Marine spent 7

months at "Camp Blue Diamond" in Ramadi. Aka: Fort Apache. He saw and did a

lot and the following is what he said about weapons, equipment, tactics and

other miscellaneous info which may be of interest to you. Nothing is by any

means classified. No politics here, just a Marine with a bird's eye view's

opinions:

1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum

powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel

filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is

more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems

also. They like the ability to mount the various optical gunsights and

weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in

a desert environment. They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor

penetration on the cinderblock structure common over there and even torso

hits cant be reliably counted on to put the enemy down. Fun fact: Random

autopsies on dead insurgents shows a high level of opiate use.

2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine

gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of shit. Chronic

jamming problems, most of which require partial disassembly. (that's fun in

the middle of a firefight).

3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert

environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for

self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad

guys hit multiple times and still in the fight.

4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for

clearing houses to good effect.

5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 Nato (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun,

developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!).

Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts 'em down.

Originally developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being

dismounted and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round chews up

the structure over there.

6) The M2 .50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. "Ma deuce" is

still worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper,

puts their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted weapon

in-theater. (YOU GOT TO LOVE THIS WEAPON)

7) The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol round out there.

Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on one.

With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to put 'em down with a torso

hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol work) use the

HK military model and supposedly love it. The old government model .45's

are being re-issued en masse. (IMAGINE THAT!!)

8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a

modified version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight

Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the

sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round. (WELL IT’S ABOUT TIME)

9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range and

accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out vehicle

suicide bombers ( we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemy.

Definitely here to stay.

10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300 win

mag. Heavily modified Remington 700's. Great performance. Snipers have

been used heavily to great effect. Rumor has it that a marine sniper on his

third tour in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hathcock's record

for confirmed kills with OVER 100.

11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs. and

can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will stop an

AK-47 round. The bad news: Hot as shit to wear, almost unbearable in the

summer heat (which averages over 120 degrees). Also, the enemy now goes for

head shots whenever possible. All the stuff about the "old" body armor

making our guys vulnerable to the IED's was a non-starter. The IED

explosions are enormous and body armor doesn't make any difference at all in

most cases.

12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment: Thumbs way up. Spectacular

performance. Our guys see in the dark and own the night, period. Very

little enemy action after evening prayers. More and more enemy being

whacked at night during movement by hunter-killer teams.

13) Lights: Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal lights are

Surefire's, and the troops love 'em. Invaluable for night urban operations.

Bad guy weapons:

1) Mostly AK47's The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in the

desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM belt fed

light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy mostly

shoots poorly. Undisciplined "spray and pray" type fire. However, they are

seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles. (Iran,

again) Fun fact: Captured enemy have apparently marveled at the

marksmanship of our guys and how hard they fight. They are apparently told

in Jihad school that the Americans rely solely on technology, and can be

easily beaten in close quarters combat for their lack of toughness. Let's

just say they know better now.

2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys. Simple,

reliable and as common as dogshit. The enemy responded to our up-armored

humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank range. Still

killing a lot of our guys.

3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet

anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in Jordan's

area were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155mm artillery

shells and wire them together. Most were detonated by cell phone, and the

explosions are enormous. You're not safe in any vehicle, even an M1 tank.

Driving is by far the most dangerous thing our guys do over there. Lately,

they are much more sophisticated "shape charges" (Iranian) specifically

designed to penetrate armor. Fact: Most of the ready made IED's are

supplied by Iran, who is also providing terrorists (Hezbollah types) to

train the insurgents in their use and tactics. That's why the attacks have

been so deadly lately. Their concealment methods are ingenious, the latest

being shape charges in Styrofoam containers spray painted to look like the

cinderblocks that litter all Iraqi roads. We find about 40% before they

detonate, and the bomb disposal guys are unsung heroes of this war.

4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The soviet era 122mm rockets

(with an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of the marine's NCO's

lost a leg to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage "inside the wire".

Marine's base was hit almost daily his entire time there by mortar and

rocket fire, often at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause fatigue (It

did). More of a psychological weapon than anything else. The enemy mortar

teams would jump out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then haul ass in a

matter of seconds.

5) Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by

cell and satellite phones, and also by email on laptops. They use handheld

GPS units for navigation and "Google earth" for overhead views of our

positions. Their weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent. Their

explosives and bomb technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare.

They are very careless with their equipment and the captured GPS units and

laptops are treasure troves of Intel when captured.

Who are the bad guys?:

Most of the carnage is caused by the Zarqawi Al Qaeda group. They operate

mostly in Anbar province (Fallujah and Ramadi). These are mostly

"foreigners", non-Iraqi Sunni Arab Jihadists from all over the Muslim world

(and Europe). Most enter Iraq through Syria (with, of course, the knowledge

and complicity of the Syrian govt.) , and then travel down the "rat line"

which is the trail of towns along the Euphrates River that we've been

hitting hard for the last few months.

Some are virtually untrained young Jihadists that often end up as suicide

bombers or in "sacrifice squads". Most, however, are hard core terrorists

from all the usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.) These are the

guys running around murdering civilians en masse and cutting heads off. The

Chechens (many of whom are Caucasian), are supposedly the most ruthless and

the best fighters. (they have been fighting the Russians for years). In the

Baghdad area and south, most of the insurgents are Iranian inspired (and

led) Iraqi Shiites. The Iranian Shiia have been very adept at infiltrating

the Iraqi local govt.'s, the police forces and the Army. The have had a

massive spy and agitator network there since the Iran-Iraq war in the early

80's. Most of the Saddam loyalists were killed, captured or gave up long

ago.

Bad Guy Tactics: When they are engaged on an infantry level they get their

asses kicked every time. Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type charges

were very common earlier in the war and still occur. They will literally

sacrifice 8-10 man teams in suicide squads by sending them screaming and

firing Ak's and RPG's directly at our bases just to probe the defenses.

They get mowed down like grass every time. ( see the M2 and M240 above).

Jordan's base was hit like this often. When engaged, they have a tendency

to flee to the same building, probably for what they think will be a

glorious last stand. Instead, we call in air and that's the end of that more

often than not. These hole-ups are referred to as Alpha Whiskey Romeo's

(Allah's Waiting Room). We have the laser guided ground-air thing down to a

science. The fast mover's, mostly Marine F-18's, are taking an ever

increasing toll on the enemy. When caught out in the open, the helicopter

gunships and AC-130 Spectre gunships cut them to ribbons with cannon and

rocket fire, especially at night.

Interestingly, artillery is hardly used at all. Fun fact: The enemy death

toll is supposedly between 45-50 thousand. That is why we're seeing less

and less infantry attacks and more IED, suicide bomber stuff.

The new strategy is simple: attrition.

The insurgent tactic most frustrating is their use of civilian

non-combatants as cover. They know we do all we can to avoid civilian

casualties and therefore schools, hospitals and (especially) Mosques are

locations where they meet, stage for attacks, cache weapons and ammo and

flee to when engaged. They have absolutely no regard whatsoever for

civilian casualties. They will terrorize locals and murder without

hesitation anyone believed to be sympathetic to the Americans or the new

Iraqi govt. Kidnapping of family members (especially children) is common to

influence people they are trying to influence but cant reach, such as local

govt. officials, clerics, tribal leaders, etc.).

The first thing our guys are told is "don't get captured". They know that

if captured they will be tortured and beheaded on the internet.

Zarqawi openly offers bounties for anyone who brings him a live American

serviceman. This motivates the criminal element who otherwise don't give a

hoot about the war. A lot of the beheading victims were actually kidnapped

by common criminals and sold to Zarqawi. As such, for our guys, every fight

is to the death. Surrender is not an option.

The Iraqi's are a mixed bag. Some fight well, others aren't worth a shit.

Most do okay with American support. Finding leaders is hard, but they are

getting better. It is widely viewed that Zarqawi's use of suicide bombers,

en masse, against the civilian population was a serious tactical mistake.

Many Iraqi's were galvanized and the caliber of recruits in the Army and the

police forces went up, along with their motivation. It also led to an

exponential increase in good intel because the Iraqi's are sick of the

insurgent attacks against civilians.

The Kurds are solidly pro-American and fearless fighters.

According to this Marine, morale among our guys is very high. They not only

believe they are winning, but that they are winning decisively. They are

stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American press, whom they

almost universally view as against them. The embedded reporters are

despised and distrusted. They are inflicting casualties at a rate of 20-1

and then see things like "Are we losing in Iraq" on TV and the print media.

For the most part, we are satisfied with equipment, food and leadership.

Bottom line though, and they all say this, there are not enough guys there

to drive the final stake through the heart of the insurgency, primarily

because there aren't enough troops in-theater to shut down the borders with

Iran and Syria. The Iranians and the Syrians just cant stand the thought of

Iraq being an American ally (with, of course, permanent US bases there).

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

TonyY
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Friday, November 11, 2005, at 01:59:43 (ZULU)

Tony, this is not a slam, but Ihad to speak up. There are enough inconsistencies in that account that I question it's validity.

1. M243 SAW? Should be M249 SAW.

2. It's belt fed from a box or bag, rather than drum fed.

3. Current Marine sniper rifle is M40A3. M24 is the Army version.

4. The biggest issue with the M9 is the Checkmate brand issue mags that suck bad.

5. I believe the Marines are issued a Benelli or similiar shotgun, although I am sure there are plenty M590's yet in inventory. The shotguns are primarily a breaching tool.

6. Even the latest body armor is WAY heavier than 6 lbs, I have seen it with my own two peepers.

I am not disputing that this came from someone who knows, but that's a lot of anecdotal stuff to hang a hat on without any actual hard data, especially considering there are other reliable reports that don't quite jive. I would say this was written by someone that has a personal agenda (pro 7.62, against mouse guns), but appears to have their heart in the right place.

I personally would defer to Ken M for opinions on Marine equipment currently in theater. He should be along to correct any errors I made shortly.....;-)

Geoff M
WI, USA - Friday, November 11, 2005, at 03:10:09 (ZULU)

I am summoned:

Most folks feel that that info is all urban legend, but bits and pieces could be true.

My guys all had new M16A4's and not a single guy reported a stoppage from multiple firefights. However, so guy with a 20year old A2 might have different experiences. Also, all my guys are experienced NCO's with more than a few years of service, and I ain't exactly a slacker when it came to weapon's maintainance.

Same same for the SAW's. My bn armorers rebuilt all the SAW's prior to heading over and we had no problems to speak of, other than the one that burned up in the IED'd HUM-V. Being cheap on parts means that you're gonna get somebody killed.

240G is great gun. No discrepancies noted.

M2 is OK, just didn't do anything for me that a M240G wouldn't do just as well. Big heavy and not needed for any target set that we engaged.

Mk19 is awesome when they work. Lotsa folks other than me had problems. We had one bad lot of ammo with the links positioned improperly, but that was caught during the pre-patrol inspection, which is why you do a pre-patrol inspection...... Maintainance pig, but nothing else has that kind of firepower in this size/weight class.

M9 sucked, period. Caliber is inadequate and magazines were garbage. Broke a few trigger return springs during workup, but none in country AFAIK. Very common to get rds jammed within magazine due to dust and lack of spring tension. Extremely high spring tension spreads feed lips. Shit design IMO.

As pointed out, USMC uses M40A3 vice M24. M24 is better weapon than M40A3 IMO, due mainly to weight, M40A1 PIP(A1 with 1913 rail and 3-12 S&B) would be better still. IMO Unertl is better scope than 10X M3A, same magnification and adjustment design I'm more comfortable with. 6 of one, half dozen of the other, use what you know.

M82 Barret, big heavy and not much use in our fight other than disabling vehicles. Yeah, kills a guy in dramatic fashion, BFD. Really hard to take on patrol. Raufoss doesn't ignite diesel, which not surprisingly, most trucks used to lay IED's burn. Would rather have long range 40mm grenade launcher or carry a Javelin ATGM, now that's long range killing. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Friday, November 11, 2005, at 05:41:24 (ZULU)

BKS: Geoff is a good man. Would give you his last shirt in a snowstorm. Also made one of the the top five best shots of all time that I am witnes to; a sort of kneeling/ off-hand deal on a running buck at some 300 long steps. And he is right about the body armor. My SAPI II plates weigh 18 pounds--each one, and there are two of these in my vest. If the kid is dropping his SAPI, then maybe he is down to 12 pounds of kevlar, depending on model. And that would be dumb.

Otherwise, that is some good assesments. I would say that, for busting ambush/ close fights--the 240 is the preferred tool, IMHO. The 50 is a bit slow in rate of fire and traversing ability.

Sarge Jr: My laptop scrounge has yielded about 6 so far---but I am still looking for some geek support to check them out and give up some accessories (like power cords). This geek squad exists, but I have not linked up with them yet. This kind of support must remain at the buddy-level---and once I network my ass into it--at least 3 of these things will be on their way. Providing they can be turned on. They are Gateways, Panasonics, and IBM thinkpads. Most are Pentium 4. I sure wish you asked for something easy--like night scopes or sumptin...Heheh. On the other hand, you are forcing me to learn about some useful shit...that is always a plus:))

Green dot lasers eat batteries. They also work well in bright light conditions. Red dot cannot be seen in this sunshine. PAQ4Cs are IR of course, and these are light weight and kinda delicate. The NVEC dual beam is slightly heavier--but has two beams--one for aiming, and an adjustable one for flood/ spot light. Handy with helmet mounted NVGs. The ground commander's NVEC unit is also neat; it's beam is fully adjustable from big splash down to pinpoint in one skinny package. NVEC also integrates the PIC-mount into the case, which is a solid way to mount these up. The PAQ4 mount (many types available in the kit) is screwed on, in a plastic channel---and these invariably have some play built in. Not so good for accuracy. I see shims all the time, so I know our boys figured this one out and adapted.

I still find aimpoints in the mounts 45 degrees off axis on the adjustments---with corresponding tags that say "will not adjust." So not all our kids understand. But, Iraq is a great place for re-emphasizing the fundementals of marksmanship and external ballistics basics. We'll come out of this fairly well off in that department. Yeah--this is the "hard way" of learning. But it sure is thorough!

Shotguns may be intended for breaching in the manual--but rest assured our kids find other uses for anything we give them. Heheheh.

Doc: The PH rifle sounds like a nicely built weapon.

Happy Veterans day to all who have served our public. In these days of GWOT, this has greatly expanded the rolls...

Just read Ken's response, and realized that i blew off the BS about the M4/ M16 jam issue. I have defended it here before---the platform is just fine--and I just did like I was taght--cleaned weapons in my down time. I will say we have lost a bit of the tough love mentality over the last few years. A squad leader might see letting hsi boys go to chow as the nice thing to do. The hard thing, and the right thing--is to sit their asses down, break open the guns, and get to scrubbing the grit out of them right off. Then, a little hygiene and medical checks (hydration, socks, etc)--once done, too bad if the chow hall closed. We have brown bag lunches. Then, showers and racks. Fighter management. Too ofetn, being a nise guy wins out. There is nothing nice about a jam that gets someone killed--but we are not thinking like that as much as we used to.

If one cleans his shit like his life depends on it--then it will work when needed.

The green tip is a terrible man-stopper by some reports. The 75s and 77s seemed to work well. I have no opinion either way (both work as far as i could tell just fine)---but, being a betting man with an eye on odds---I carry the black hills stuff. Heheh.

Joe M
Friday, November 11, 2005, at 05:57:08 (ZULU)

Australia bid forever farewell to the nation's last WW1 veteran. In May this year in southern England WW1 veteran 'Smiley ??? passed away. He was the last British survivor of the Battle of the Somme, the last rank of the Machinegun Corps, the last man ever to take part in a cavalry charge and the last man to have used a sabre in combat. In the early 90s the last WW1 veteran from the Royal West India Regiment passed away. Shortly before his passing there was a newspaper interview where he explained how black troops in the Commonwealth Forces were held at the rear in supply and engineering roles. As I read it I could feel his disappointment of not getting the opportunity to 'have a go at Jerry' but couldn't help thinking that he was pretty damned lucky. "One of my Section 5 dealer friends in London had two great-uncles who fought in WW1, they met each other in the rear on Nov 6th, 1918 as one returned from leave and the other passed out on leave. The one who returned to the front was killed on November 11th - unlucky".Don't feel disappointed, do a bit of reading to catch up or buy a couple of dvd documentaries from Amazon. There is a print series called 'voices' that contains short personal accounts from both wars and is very easy to read when time is short. We owe it to them to remember, keep your head down in the meanwhile.

From a friend in the islands.

Regards,

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, US of A - Friday, November 11, 2005, at 13:26:44 (ZULU)

Just checking in.

Wanted to let you fellas know I'm still on this side of the grass.

Heading up to Wisconsin for deer season in about a week & thinking about visiting Joe M.

Dave "Doc" King

Dave King
Friday, November 11, 2005, at 13:33:17 (ZULU)

Doc King: Glad you're back. Don't be a stranger. If you find Joe in WI, he has some explaining to do.

Anyone playing in the Sandbox: The first combat soldier or Marine who emails me can have four cans of Skoal long cut, two cans of Copenhagen long cut and two cans of Copenhagen black (Bourbon flavored). If you don't use it yourself you have to give it to another front-line guy. You can't sell or trade the stuff. I'll pay shipping.

CDC'
Friday, November 11, 2005, at 15:53:37 (ZULU)

CDC'

Thanks, I've been busy like most other folks I'd guess. A few new rifles to shoot, work at work (for food, shelter and bullet money) and work at home (to keep the rain off me and the wife happy)to complete.

I take it Joe M. is away again, I'll catch up on the latest conditions soon enough.

My son is in the final stages of his up-op for redeploy. He's no longer strickly Bradley crew, he's now C-RAM operator.

I'm just a little older, other than that I'm about the same. I did do a fairly serious amount of F-Class (TR) shooting... had two rifles built (one's still be assembled), both are on 40X actions and being/been done by Clay Spencer. The repeater action is strickly a 308 with a chamber cut for the GMM175. The single shot is a switch barrel setup (3 barrels), 308 (GMM175), 6BR fast twist (105 Scenar and 107 SMK) and a 6BR slow twist for some 62 to 64 grain custom bullets (groundhog gun).

I've been playing with a through-the-optics digital video camera setup. Pretty neat system (50r/50t plate beamsplitter optic) has both color and b/w camera (miniature 1/4"CCD?CMOS) . I have a Samsung Extreme Sport camcorder and need to get it interfaced for the smallest package, something that can easily fit into the Eagle Stockpack. I'd do better is I had a muzzle brake as on recoil the subject/recipient is lost for a bit.

I'm also about to go into the Care Package business again so if there's a end need let me know.

Take Care

Dave King
Friday, November 11, 2005, at 16:56:28 (ZULU)

Perfect sniper rifle?

McMillan A5 stock. Standard fill with SS insert Flush Cups

Remington SA with M24 taper bbl, with flutes.

Badger Detachable Magazine assembly

20 MOA Badger Base

Badger rings

3-12x 50 SxB with Gen Two Mildot

My sling LOL

Whole Package under 12lbs

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
Ca, - Friday, November 11, 2005, at 19:14:34 (ZULU)

Undude,

Have you used the badger mag setup enough to say that it's 'combat' ready? I've been watching and waiting to hear the feedback from early adopters....

medicjim
Friday, November 11, 2005, at 19:35:53 (ZULU)

A salute to our Veterans past and present.

***** THANK YOU! *****

(I never get tired of watching this)

http://www.forest.ws/WeSupportU.htm

(or click on my name)

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 00:19:48 (ZULU)

Jim, I have used it enough to say I can beat any M16 or HS Precision Magazine to death with it. Uses AICS magazines.

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
Ca, - Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 00:50:00 (ZULU)

Undude: How long does a mag change take?

All: scrappleface.com is the second funniest site I know.

Top Stories...

•Democrats Deny Having Pre-War Intelligence

“We had no pre-war intelligence,” said Sen. John Kerry, “History will show that none of the leading Democrats had substantial intelligence. Anyone who remembers what we did then knows that the president is making a baseless allegation. I think history will bear out my contention that we Democrats lacked the intelligence to make such an important decision.”

The junior Senator from Massachussetts said he continues “to faithfully support the troops who uselessly die for a lie in Iraq.”

“Our troops deserve to know that their elected leaders who voted to send them to war will remain firm in our conviction that we didn’t know what we were doing at the time,” Sen. Kerry said. “It’s important, on Veteran’s Day, to remember that our Democrat commitment to our military hasn’t changed.”

CDC'
Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 01:17:46 (ZULU)

My dad. Silver Star. 5 Bronze stars. 2 CIBs. Survived Task Force Smith. I knew about the Purple Hearts. I didn't know he'd been hit in Vietnam.

---------------

A Day to Remember Veterans

Stockton man decorated for Korea, Vietnam

Ian Hill

Record Staff Writer

Published Friday, Nov 11, 2005

U.S. Army veteran Al Liwanag earned these medals while serving in Korea and Vietnam. He’s been given the Purple Heart eight times for wounds suffered while in combat in both wars, though he says he feels like he’s really only earned three of them

------------------------------------------------------------------------

STOCKTON -- Al Liwanag won't call himself an exceptional soldier, even though he has enough Army medals to fill a cardboard container slightly bigger than a shoebox.

"These are something I'm saving for my grandkids," said Liwanag, 74, of Stockton, opening some of the small blue cases for the medals and peering at the honors inside.

He took an old orange prescription bottle out of the box and turned it over on his couch. He laid out the three medals that had been kept inside: a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. It was one of the eight medals Liwanag received for being wounded during his service in Korea and Vietnam.

"I think the best you could say about me is that I was a good soldier. Not a great soldier, but a good soldier," he said.

Today is Veterans Day, the holiday that recognizes all former members of the armed services. Created in 1918 by President Wilson, it was originally known as Armistice Day. In 1954, President Eisenhower signed legislation changing the name to Veterans Day.

Liwanag brushes aside any suggestions that he is a hero, saying he knew many other servicemen who were wounded at least eight times. But those soldiers, however, didn't have anyone in their units to complete the paperwork needed to receive Purple Hearts, Liwanag said.

"There were a lot of guys who I knew were real ... heroes," Liwanag said. "When you get down to it, all I was doing was my job."

Liwanag isn't the only veteran in Stockton who was honored for his military service. Chet Locke, 85, received the Navy Cross, while William Dvorak, 82, earned the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Air Medal, as well as a Silver Star and two Bronze Stars. Both Locke and Dvorak are World War II veterans who live at O'Connor Woods, an assisted-living facility on Wagner Heights Road.

Two other O'Connor Woods residents, Ed Burda, 82, and John Coykendall, 79, each received a Bronze Star for their service in the Army infantry.

While Liwanag doesn't consider himself unique or a hero, he has served as an inspiration to his friends and family. He and his wife, Peggy, have two sons: David, 45, commander of the Army Marksmanship Unit, and Albert II, 43, who served in the Coast Guard.

Lt. Col. David Liwanag, a former commander of the Army's Golden Knights parachute unit, noted that his father instilled in him the importance of serving his country.

"It has always been reinforced by my dad -- do something for your country before you do something for your career," he said.

"What a guy," said Lester Novaresci, 79, who has known Al Liwanag since childhood. "I'm so impressed with people like him," Novaresci said. "He just makes me proud I'm an American, and I'm so proud he's an American."

Al Liwanag was a 17-year-old senior at St. Mary's High School when he decided to drop out and enlist in the military in 1948. He was tired of school, and friends in the military had told him it would provide him with career opportunities.

At first, he tried to join the Marines. A recruiter in the Post Office building downtown, however, told him he was too young. On his way out of the building, the dejected teen walked by an Army recruiter.

"He said, 'What's wrong, son?' I told him the Marines had just turned me down," Liwanag said. "He said, 'Come in and maybe I can help you.' "

With the permission of his parents, Liwanag joined the Army. He spent the next few years training throughout the U.S. and Japan, learning languages and becoming an Army engineer.

In 1950, then a sergeant, he joined the 19th Infantry Regiment in Korea. He received his first Purple Heart for being wounded that September, when he was riding in an explosives truck that hit a mine south of Pyongyang.

The 2,500 pounds of explosives in the truck did not detonate, but Liwanag was hit with rocks and metal in his face and left arm. He said the wounds were minor, and he emphasized that of the eight times he was wounded, he only considers three to be serious.

"The rest could've happened to anybody," he said.

But of his February 1951 wounds, he said, "This is one of the bad ones." His unit was storming a hill near Ichon, in northwest Korea, when he was shot in the left side of his chest just below his throat.

"It picked me up and flung me back 3-4 feet," Liwanag said. "Then I couldn't breathe."

With his unit under heavy fire, he lay on the ground throughout the night. The next morning, after the fighting had subsided, Liwanag got up and walked down the hill to the closest field hospital. Doctors later found that the bullet had nicked his heart and collapsed his lung, he said.

But it didn't keep him out of Korea. He left the hospital after 3 1/2 months and returned to the war, he said.

He was seriously wounded a second time in July 1951, when he was shot twice in his right thigh while on patrol in the Chorwon Valley in what would later become South Korea.

"You're walking, and all of a sudden, your leg goes out," he said. Doctors removed the bullets with forceps.

Liwanag later did intelligence work for the Army in Laos, where he also was wounded, and in 1965, he was dispatched to Vietnam. In 1968, he was on patrol with a fellow soldier who tripped a booby trap.

Shrapnel struck him in the chin, his third serious wound. But the young soldier who tripped the booby trap lost both of his legs, Liwanag said.

"When you go to war, it's always the young kids that pay the price," he said. "War is gory. There's nothing glamorous about it."

Liwanag retired from the Army in 1981, and he worked as a driving instructor for the Postal Service from 1983-96. Today, when he looks back on his military service, he tries not to think of the bloodshed and his wounds.

"If you're a professional soldier, then you harden yourself ... you mentally block that stuff out," he said. "Over a period of time, the bad times drop out."

Contact reporter Ian Hill at 209 943-8571 orihill@recordnet.com

sinister
Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 02:23:09 (ZULU)

Sinister,

Thanks for sharing. We owe our freedom to men such as your Father and you. Thank you sir.

Doc

Doc Holloway
The "night before deer season" Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 04:24:44 (ZULU)

Sarge;

Not sure what to suggest as for the #32 scope substitute. I'll try to let you know if something suitable crosses my path.

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 05:01:21 (ZULU)

Gents,

Sinister, sounds like your dad is quite a gent. Looks like his son follows in his footsteps...

Does anyone have the original specs for the USMC Model 70 Sniper Rifle? Project in mind and inquiring minds want to know...

Sign off...back to the grind on the morrow.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 08:13:56 (ZULU)

Mk4,

Thank you!

Sinister, and Mr. Liwanag,

Thank you both for all your sacrifices. Words cannot express my gratitude to each of you, those who came before you and those presently serving. God Bless You All.

John

acehigh
Blmgtn, IN, USA - Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 10:04:37 (ZULU)

To all the vets here on the roaster,

A sincere and heartfelt thank you for serving.

Back to lurk mode!

Geoff M
WI, USA - Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 12:02:33 (ZULU)

CDC, I've had a Badger detachable magazine system for about three months. I can easily change mags in about 5 to 8 seconds without getting out of the prone position, and I haven't spent a lot of time practicing it. I haven't seen any problems with mine or anyone else's that I've seen, I highly recommend it.

Sinister, thank you very much for the report on your dad, you're lucky you still have him. Thank you for your service and please pass that on to your dad as well.

For that matter, thank you to all our veterans and current soldiers as well.

Tony Burkes
alvin, TEXAS, UNITED STATES of AMERICA - Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 12:10:24 (ZULU)

Annual sinus infection....

This stuff has really kicked my ass this time. Fought through it until last Thursday and finally gave up and came home from work. Haven't really left the recliner for any length of time until this morning. Trying to fight it without antibiotics this time.

For you folks overseas..........

I'd like to get my hands on a set of that Jordanian camo. Need an XL-R jacket and L-R pants. One of you guys nock one of those Jordanian soldiers out, strip him down and send me the camo's. Damn there's some good looking camo BDU's over there.

Doc King.............

One fine shooting SOB and all round nice guy! Nuff said.

War Movie Orgy.........

The only benefit of being down with this affliction is that it happened on THE weekend for war movies. Some good series running on History Channel. AMC is running movies all weekend. Watched Sands of Iwo Jima last night.........we miss ya Duke...

Which brings up the following.......

A belated thanks to all you dudes and dudettes that are in the military covering my ass. I wish I could go back in time and see if I would have made a good soldier.

Butner 600 yard Weekend results........

The Boltster made it out of the basement and came in 6th. It was one of those weekends to determine if your equipment was the problem or the nut behind the trigger. I proved to myself that I've got good factory equipment, the nut behind the trigger needs more work.

LimbSaver Recoil Pads.....

Shhhhhhhwwweeettt. The model #10001 fits the A5 butt plate without any trimming. All you have to do is drill another hole in the LimbSaver pad.

http://www.limbsaver.com/limbsaver/firearms/precfit.aspx

Back to the recliner, Bolt sniff sniff cough cough and out!

Bolt
NC, - Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 14:46:59 (ZULU)

HOGs Col Dave's whole family is exceptional. His brother is a decorated Oakland PD Sergeant. We all know Dave and wow his dad is the stuff movies should be made about. Plus he must be proud of his family. Damm thats good stock!

CDC, its fast as any M14 to change the magazines.

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
Ca, - Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 18:25:09 (ZULU)

Sinister,

Thank you, Sir!

>>> LimbSaver Recoil Pads <<<<

I've got one on my HBV and wished I didn't. Yeah they absorb recoil just fine but if I had my druthers, I would've gone with a Pach Decelerator.

Why?

Last Sept. during Phase I @ Badlands, the temps were hovering around the century mark (and above) out on the range(s). Every evening when I'd clean my rife, I'd have to remove the Eagle Stock Pack to access the bore and I'd have to PEEEL the restraining strap of the Pack off the recoil pad. Needless to say, it had slightly melted. Not terribly bad but enough to leave a permanent black stain on the Stock Pack and left the recoil pad slightly dis-figured. I don't think this would've happened to a Decelerator.

I'd rethink the Limbsaver if you're going to be in high temps. (using a Stock Pack anyway)

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 18:45:57 (ZULU)

Dave: Powerful stuff.

Geoff: Nice shot.

Any combat soldier or marine who is in A'stan or Iraq: First one who sends me an address gets eight cans of smokeless tobacco. No charge. If you don't use the stuff, give it to someone who does.

CDC'
Saturday, November 12, 2005, at 20:02:38 (ZULU)

..."My guys all had new M16A4's and not a single guy reported a stoppage from multiple firefights. However, so guy with a 20year old A2 might have different experiences. Also, all my guys are experienced NCO's with more than a few years of service, and I ain't exactly a slacker when it came to weapon's maintainance." ...

Ken,

A few of us from TnSSA and the KY's highpower assc. spent a couple weeks this year helping to train NCO's of the 3rd Bde, 101st, to shoot beyond 200 yards with "optics", and do some positional shooting. (as well as better ways to sight, downrange feedback, itron sight work, wind and light conditions, etc.) In the March class, we ended up having three stoppages. All were due to one thing. Excess oil getting into the chamber, causing the chamber to both gum up a bit, and to cause a hydro-lock on some of the cases. It manifested itself by rounds only pulling half way out of the chamber, and double feeding.

Like you said, it all comes down to weapons maint., but these guys were all at least one timer in Iraq and Afganistan. To be fair, one of the stappages was the LT who was the OIC of the range that day.

I was surprized how accurate the M855 was out to 400 meters. It was accurate enough to hit 11" walkers out of a 16" barrel. Both with Acog's and M68's.

Chris...

Chris
Sunday, November 13, 2005, at 03:22:18 (ZULU)

I knew Sinister's dad was a good man after spending an hour or so chatting with Sinister at the SHOT Show this year - it was clear that no act of Congress was required to make Dave a gentleman.

Their family is a sterling example of service. We all own them our thanks.

Lindy
An Undisclosed Secure Location, U.S.A. - Sunday, November 13, 2005, at 04:05:29 (ZULU)

OREGON WAKE UP CALL...

Gents,

Some of you may have heard of an incident in Salem, Oregon this morning. I'll spare the detail, but think it is important to see how helpless cities are against this type of thing...

The incident started at the Keizer PD parking lot where an unidentifed man fired several rounds and set police cars on fire. He then fled, changed from his passenger car to his Ford P/U truck. Then proceeded to downtown Salem, drove his truck up the front steps and INTO the lobby of the Marion County Court House. Once there he continued firing at officers, setting some minor fires until taken down by a member of the tactical team.

If he had had a bomb, in the truck at the Courthouse it could have been disaster. Luckily, limited staff were working and damage would have been minimized.

This shows just how vulnerable we are to this type of terrorist/

All for now,

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Sunday, November 13, 2005, at 08:52:26 (ZULU)

re: Oregon wakeup call

CNN link on same:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/12/oregon.shooting.ap/index.html

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, November 13, 2005, at 13:05:26 (ZULU)

I don't want to paint my .220 swift white and using white tape for snow-camo is a mess. What is a better way to turn a rifle white?

Next: Scope-eze cheek rests work great, but - if I use the adhesive - I don't have access to the bore for cleaning. I have been using the ever fashionable duct tape. That is a hassle. I saw a photo a few years ago where someone used something like bicycle handle-bar tape. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Jay Rockerfeller is on "Fox News Sunday". He claims that the Democrats are wandering through life - making life and death decisions for our troops and our country - with thier heads planted firmly in thier asses.

Granted.

So why does that absolve them of responsibility?

CDC'
Sunday, November 13, 2005, at 15:19:02 (ZULU)

re: Cheek rests, camo covers

I'm using the Beartooth comb raising kits on a couple of my sticks.

It's a colored neoprene sleeve with foam spacers. You turn it inside out and roll it onto the butt-stock and selected spacers. Reverse to remove. Holds good, nice surface, no adhesives involved. I don't think you would want to remove it on a daily basis, but once a week or less would be fine.

Of course, the elegant solution is the Eagle stock pack, but that's more expensive.

Beartooth available direct and thru Brownells, Cabellas, Precision Reloading etc.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=20875&title=SLIP+ON+RECOIL+PAD+%26+COMB-RAISING+KITS

http://www.beartoothproducts.com/orderform/BTPWeb_OrderForm.pdf

The retailers don't usually carry the snow-camo variant, but it *is* available direct from the vendor :-)

Beartooth also sell a neoprene 3-piece camo kit tailored to various kinds of long guns that may be just what you're looking for...

(bolt rifle, auto shotgun, pump shotgun, O/U shotgun, muzzleloader).

http://www.beartoothproducts.com/cgi/shop/category.cgi?cat=3-Piece%20Camo%20Kit

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, November 13, 2005, at 17:14:08 (ZULU)

I have a friend who has several pounds of powder marked "20MM." It obviously is 'pulled' powder, but we have NO idea what it is or was...

Any ideas or thoughts?

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, US of A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Sunday, November 13, 2005, at 20:38:26 (ZULU)

CDC,

Have you tried using an old sheet cut into long 1 or 2 inch wide strips and wrapping it? Even still, add some light tan or green spray to the sheet strips to get a little bit of blending....

Don't know where you live, but even here in Wisconsin, we have a lot of dead grass, dirt, mud and other ground cover that makes total white too much.

Vaughn Johnson
WI, - Sunday, November 13, 2005, at 21:53:23 (ZULU)

re: 20mm powder

There is probably more than one possibility, but it is a fair bet that it is unsuitable for any "normal" rifle cartridge smaller than .50 BMG.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, November 13, 2005, at 22:54:55 (ZULU)

Probably WC 872, that's a surplus 20mm powder being sold at several places right now. About $36/8lbs and not really good for much other than uber magnums and heavy cast bullet reduced velocity loads. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Sunday, November 13, 2005, at 22:54:57 (ZULU)

re: 20mm

Thanks fer the info. I knew someone here would know...

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, US of A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Monday, November 14, 2005, at 01:43:48 (ZULU)

For you guys needing an M14 mount, you need to check this link out if you have not all ready. http://www.gdisecurity.com/html/engineered_solutions_g1.html

I've met the guy who has invented this mount, he's BTDT and knows what it takes to get the job done. I believe this mount is being used by the 82nd right now, not sure who else is using it.

Mr. Sain, you guys need to check this out for the American Snipers program.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, UNITED STATES of AMERICA - Monday, November 14, 2005, at 12:34:36 (ZULU)

Tony

That looks like a nice scope mount. I would just want to make sure it works with the civilian M1A. I know there is a slight machining difference between the military and civilian models, I don't know what exactly it is, but I've tried two different versions od the ARMS mount and just gave up on scoping my M1A.

It's an old topic here that I don't want to bring up. But like I said, if it was guaranteed to work on the civilian model I'd get one.

MedicJim

How did you do at the Carlos Hathcock match?

Doug

doug sickels
Monday, November 14, 2005, at 18:42:47 (ZULU)

Doug,

I stunk up the place...if not last, I was in the bottom 10%. I had a very nice group over the target's left shoulder. No excuses, the problem was all me.

I still had a great time...you better show next year.

medicjim
Monday, November 14, 2005, at 18:57:59 (ZULU)

Jim

Were you shooting your .223? What distances did they shoot? I will definately try to make it next year. I'm still having problems with my .223. I have to get it re-barrelled. I checked the crown with Q tips, there's no rough spots. I think I just got a crappy barrel from the factory.

I forgot to thank you for that Mountain Safety Research site. I got a couple of nice things from there. A kick ass stove and a water purification device.

Doug

doug sickels
Monday, November 14, 2005, at 19:40:49 (ZULU)

Gents,

Just a few comments, flu bug bit, so have a day off...

Medjim, so what if your group was over the silhouette targets left shoulder? I'm sure you where just showing that you "owned" the situation...;-)

GDI M14/M1A mounts. Gents, this looks to much like the stuff that is for use that ISN"T working. I've tried several mounts on these platforms and gave up. Others, with notable exceptions (Bravo) have had lacksuster results. Make mine one of the new recievers with scope mounts integrall with the action. In that case M1A or new AR-10/SR-25 integral systems should work.

Personally, I've gone back to bolt guns and that's where I'll stay! Right, Bolt-san?

Cheek rests/Camo Covers: I use Eagle products on my rifles. One has the external loops for 5 extra cartridges. The other has the 5 loops internal in the pouch. That was at my request. WHY expose precision ammo, to the elements, if you don't have too. The neat thing is that if you need to build up the cheek piece you can. I can't vouch for the fact that Eagle offers the internal loops and external ones. I do know they responded to my request and supplied the internal loops.

GOOD KIT, IMHO.

Larry/Sharran (we won't discuss identity crisis Larry), If you have a couple of pounds 20MM "pull down powder" my advice is to put it outside and carefully burn small amounts at a time. Since you cannot positively identify it. It probably is WCC872, but do you really want to chance your safety to a "maybe"?

Rant Mode ON: Gents, I'm getting tired of hearing that our troops need the latest and greatest gadgets. I WILL agree to a few that give an edge(night vision, etc.), but I'm tired of seeing $400.00 accessory rails, lights, lasers, vertical fore grips, dual mag wells and you name it. NONE, IMHO give an edge, add weight, fatigue, and provide handy protrusions to catch on door jambs, furniture, etc. Not to mention trip wires. The light thingy makes the user a dandy target, and DON'T even get me started on Lasers. Yeah, there are a few select incidences where these may help, but the liabilities outweigh the benefits, IMHO, again. Solution? Train the living hell out of your troops, using solid/proven techniques, arm them appropiately to accomplish the mission...then back away and let them kick ass.

For those who think that changing weapons in mid stream is good...well good luck, hope you can sleep at night. Rather than secondary weapons assign a man to cover your Sniper's ass. They'll both be better off.

Exuse me Mr. Bad Guy, can I have a "time out" while I change weapons, etc? Bullshit!

On Commanders: Commanders who are more concerned with politics and promotion should be immediately nuetered to protect the gene pool. There are only two courses of action/outcomes that matter. One is accomplishing the mission and the second is safely bringing home as many of your troops, as possible.

Now, that I've had a good rant I'll sign off by saying I doubt any of our members fall into these categories.

Thanks for letting me vent...

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Monday, November 14, 2005, at 20:43:24 (ZULU)

Sir Wes, while I don't have any first hand experience with the scope mount, the guy who makes it is a recently ex special operator who I am pretty confident would not be making it with the problems that have been encountered in the past. In fact in coversations with him, he says that it does not have any of the problems of other mounts that you are familiar with. I think Lindy and a few of his friends might have some first hand experience with the mount or know who does.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, UNITED STATES of AMERICA - Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 00:02:03 (ZULU)

Like Tony, I know the guy who founded GDI. His credentials as an operator are impeccable - he's one of the most lethal folks on the planet, with anything from bare hands to an anti-armor missile.

I think it's interesting that someone would render an opinion of a piece of gear based upon what it looks like, and I'm disappointed that someone whose opinion I've come to respect appears to have done precisely that.

I think if one hasn't personally tried a piece of kit, that one should not offer an opinion about it.

Lindy
An Undisclosed Secure Location, U.S.A. - Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 00:57:50 (ZULU)

Wes, buddy you stepped in it. That mount is good to go. The guy who designed it is better than good to go. Lindy we get to agree. Will have to have extra beer tonight on this. LOL

Undude/Mike

MikeMiller
Ca, - Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 01:06:49 (ZULU)

Sir Wes,

'lito-san tagged me with that 'moniker...' (says I look gud in the red dress and pink pumps...)

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 02:40:41 (ZULU)

Re: GDI M14/M1A Optical Sight Mount

Ok, I'm biting. I'm sure I'm gonna regret this though.

Quote from the website:

http://www.gdisecurity.com/html/engineered_solutions_g1.html

"The G1 requires no additional removal of mechanical sighting systems currently employed and issued on the M14/M1A rifles. The unique Dove Claw, Side Hex, and Pressure Hex Locking screws, allow for a three point contact mounting interface with the M14/M1A/M21/M25 Rifle Systems."

Looks like the ARMS 18 or Smith Enterprise mount in priniciple.

How is this mount different and what makes it superior?

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 02:57:58 (ZULU)

Gents,

Mike, Lindy, and Tony,

Don't have a knee jerk reaction to my comments on the GDI mount. Didn't say it was good or bad. Haven't used one. What I did say is if your compadre designed one that worked I haven't heard any testimonials. If successful, he's one of the first. Hope your right on this one.

Mk 4, Spot on. Does anyone have drawing or pics that can show us how this thing is mounted differently than the #18 Arms mount and others of the same design. Better yet...is anyone successfully using the darn thing...

Guys, I respect you, your opinions, and operational knowledge. You vouch for your friend and that's good enough for me. I don't question that or his bona fides. What I do question is the fact that no one can tell me they have used it...and it works. Add that to the fact that the PDF spec sheets/instructions don't down load and I start questioning...

What I really would like to know is what about it is "Patent Pending" and makes it work. Anybody?

Why are we even having this conversation? As much as I love the M14/M1A rifles they are going the way of the DoDo, IMHO.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

(The Doubter)

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 03:46:30 (ZULU)

Hmmm ... thing looks very similiar to the Brookefield sitting on the M1A Bruce Robinson willed to me. GI loophole and all.

This newer one looks to have some minutes built in maybe. Still gotta have a piece of boat cushion on the stock to get your eye up so you can look through it.

Stainless rocks ... Love the stuff.

Wes is a big boy and can fend for himself but I can't see where he did anything but render an honest opinion about a piece of shooting gear based on his opinion and the appearance and description of the mount.

Hell ... there are guys around teaching sniping that have NEVER had another man in their hairs for real so wtf ?

Being that Wes is intimately familiar with the rifle and the mounts available ... and the fact that the topic has been beat to death here ... the comment seemed logical enough to me.

Isn't that what this site is for?

Wes never said it was bogus kit, or that it didn't work or that the guy who invented it wasn't laser guided death incarnate.

Lighten up dudes. It's just the internet ...

brian k. sain
Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 05:00:10 (ZULU)

Well, it seems there have lately been a couple of comments made about me. They were both complimentary. Obviously that brings the writers credibility into question........

I agree with Sir Wes. The '14 type system wasn't ever designed to accept a scope mount. The fact that some mounts have had the partial success they have had, is surprising considering the tolerances of the cuts used to hold the thing in place.

In my case, I had good luck with the BPT, but didn't personally prefer it. The ARMS, after several conversations with it (using mostly four-lettered words), gave up it's secrets and has been good for me since. But using the factory supplied instructions will just about guarentee you fits of frustration. I don't know anyone personally that has had one stay put through serious usage. At this juncture, I no longer recommend it, and was probably foolish to have done so previously. To install it per my directions seems to be more effort than most are happy / willing to do, I do admit that 97% of my success in this matter has been solely due to arrogance and a firmly entrenched stubborn attitude.

Heck, one of the first mounts for this chassis that I ever threw away (I mean that literally) is the one that the kittywhacker has had luck with. Which can mean only one thing: even a broken clock is right twice -once for each of us- per day.

The LRB 1913 receiver seems to be the best idea. From time to time, I call Lou, mostly to chat. He's a smart puppy, if someone will pull it off, he will, and I have confidence in his work. Our last conversation yielded that he's very, very close to starting to fill orders. My order has been in with him for, oh, somewhere about a year now.

On powders, Wes and I disagree. On disposal methods I mean. I say put it all in one big pile and set a match to it ;-) Best bet: take some kids to watch. I accidentally contaminated a pound of powder, very very much faster than a 20mm would use. My son loved the effect, it burned (being unrestricted) for a good 20 seconds or so.

Which leads into the other nice statement (GRIN - thanks Jim!). Unfortunately, I can't speak too intelligently on powders for the 45 ACP. In my experimentation, I've learned a significant amount about the progressive properties of smokeless powders, but I've been working at roughly three times the chamber pressure that the ACP works at. Any given pistol powder in my applications will burn significantly faster than in the ACP, and with a dramatically different color and flame characteristic (e.g. sparkly fireworks type versus solid sphere type).

But I can make a few broad, general, rule-of-thumb statements.

1. Seating depth (and therefore bullet design, keeping the same OAL) have a far larger impact on chamber pressures than I had formally believed.

2. Not all pistols like very fast powders. If your pistol doesn't like a powder that fast, and you do, up the chamber pressure 'till it works ;-)

3. (this one hurts) Alliant uses too much polyester binder in their powder for my taste. While it helps to recycle all of those old leisure suits from the 70's - and you that both have and have not donated yet know who you are! - it flashes too much.

4. There are two brands that I would recommend starting with, Hodgdons and Vihta. In the Hodgdons line, specifically those that utilize "clays technology".

5. Ball powders flash more than any other type. I can't draw a distinction between cylindrical and flake, it seems to depend too much on the individual powders.

6. I seem to get better results erring on the side of powders faster than ideal more than slower than ideal.

7. You never know what you're going to turn up until you chrono something, and then shoot a magazine full at least once in the middle of the night.

8. Most flash is what I would consider "moderate". Not intensive enough to be of concern while navigating (read that run-and-gun) through a dark house at night, or outside in the dark. I'll leave it up to you to figure out how and where I learned that! HA! But flash is a target designator, and draws the eye quickly, or at least did mine. Some powders though, are flatly too intense. Especially the ones that burn in a bright white or yellow solid sphere. Night acclimation? I had night acclimation?

And lastly, just for you folks that want a good laugh....... I can tell you for a fact that it's possible to drive a Sierra 115 grain 9mm JHP (the shortest available), seated to magazine length, in a G17 to right at 1500 fps, with no pressure signs. It's velocity was commensurate with the large watermellon sized bright flash though LOL!

Too much rambling for one evening. All the best there guys!

Bravo
Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 05:38:30 (ZULU)

Gents: GDI, could care less who builds it. That is neither here nor there in the current discussion of effectiveness. The fact is, it will mount to a hole that is not exactly exact from gun to gun, and will attempt to center itself exactly as does my smith mount. Unless there is some sort of barrel tracking alignment tool, there is not much difference mechanically. Now, in turn, how it stays where I eventually put it could have differences--that cannot be seen in photos or in the instruction PDFs. The instructions are, FWIW, similar to how Bravo explains mounting solutions. That is a good thing. I personally use a plumb line off my zeroed irons and calipers to align the mount---but any setting-in afterward requires further adjustments. This one says pretty much the same. After fidlle-f@**ing around for six months with my smith--I am no longer in the market for a new mount.

But if I were---then "who makes it" would indeed be pertainant. I'd buy from such a guy just because...

And, only after someone else reviewed it. I am not an innovator with newfangled stuff. I let the brave or the foolish do the bugging for me.

So don't bag on Sir Wes--he is not saying that the guy is an idiot--only that this appears (and it DOES) to work on similar principles to other mounts.

Now, to bag on Sir Wes: (heheh)

Dude, do not discount the reflex sight as an edge. Irons cannot be descounted ever--to be sure. They will fail last if at all, and one always needs a plan B with batteries. But to render the new stuff excessive is short sighted.

PAQ4: Helmet mount your NVG, one device weighs less than two. Now you are in the scan mode---looking for targets and maintaining situational awareness without pointing the gun everywhere. No need to switch over once target is found, just dot it and destroy it. Good kit, and cuts down on weight and wrokloads if you truly want to own the night.

ACOG--no magic cure for marksmanship---but if one can estimate range---puts little boolits in kill zones, as opposed to some max-point blank ju-ju that passes off on a pop-up range to 300m. This tracks it to 600/ 800 meters--all you need is to choose the right stadia.

Reflex sights: fast. damned fast. Quick and the dead. Quick is better.

PVS22--one scope does it all. The 14/ 18 workie with a little workie--but the 22 workie as is.

Raptor 6x: Identify name tags at night. It is that good. Pos ID being more and more a factor anymore with all the lawyers running the war. Don't need anyone saying "less than the 64 pair standard resolution--are you sure that was an AK?" (yeah, and his name was ahkmed, too, asshole)

Digital therm: Whoa! This stuff takes night ownership to a whole new level.

But in your favor Sir Wes--I have seen this stuff being used foolishly. Just butt-dumb mountings, misunderstanding of what it is and how it works, and no further training than a 25 meter zero. Nothing is worth a damn in the hands of the ignorant. Training cannot be wished away with technology---in fact, it is as critical now as it was with longbows. Our culture still seeks a pill to lose the weight rather than getting off that lardass and walking somewhere--so we default to the easiest path by our nature---and short the training. KD is resource intense, and requires more classroom to make it happen....while pop-up is a simple ass way to hit something right now. Only no one is sure where they hit at any given range (balls? Nose? Who cares--a hit is promotion points...). You are right that we need to apply the basics---but wrong in not taking it a step further once we do this.

joe M
Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 06:55:15 (ZULU)

Joe,

You have to write a book when you get back. You common sense sounds more and more like Ben Franklin each day...

michael
Los Gatos, CA, - Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 08:12:41 (ZULU)

FWIW,

Looks like a Smith or ARMS 18 to me also.

Tony,

If special ops means anything, and it does to me, Jesse Ventura coulda been a governor or somethin. Oh wait, he was. :))

The spec says in small print that maintaining zero after re-install requires "careful reinstallation".

Last I heard Albert Einstein wasn't very lethal but then again, neither am I.

John

john
Indy, IN, USA - Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 12:52:13 (ZULU)

JOE M:

Hey thanks for the info.

The "Well ... I could tell ya ... but I'd have to kill ya" stuff cracks me up ... always makes me want to throw the BS flag.

It is a scope mount for an antique rifle for goodness sakes ...

Mount sounds cool. Now if I just had about a thousand of them.

I think the entire 101st Abn. needs one these days.

The guys I know in the teams are pretty darn sharp. Open minded. Big thinking types. Oh yeah and lethal ...

Why don't one of you guys with the time to do it get one and T/E it?

Maybe give us a report? ...

brian k. sain
Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 13:55:46 (ZULU)

Folks, if you've got a physical address for me, scratch it out. As of yesterday evening, it's no longer valid. The POB will still get to me.

Patron Joe, if you say nice things about me, you'll ruin my rep as a crusty, irrational curmudgeon. Still, thanks for the vote of confidence!

Bravo
Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 18:36:22 (ZULU)

On the topic of M14 scope mounts:

A few years ago, our department received 11 M14s from the DRMO. All 11 came to us for $300 in shipping....if only that could happen to the rest of us. I digress...

Earlier this year, I was told to find a scope mount for one of the M14s, as my boss wanted to see what one could do with optics. I explained what would probably happen, yet they wanted to spend the money anyhow. Had a Leupold optic and rings to utilize already, so just needed the mount and someone who knew what they're doing to mount it.

I searched high and low. Of course, came across the Smith mounts through Brownells and having easily recognized them, that was my initial recommendation. Of course, I think it was between $200-$300 at the time, and you'd think I was taking it out of their personal pocket. Was told to keep looking. After talking them out of anything ranging from B-square to a few other less than good mounts (they were less than $100, HA), I happened upon Leatherwood's new 3pt mount. I think it ran about $130.

We've actually had some pretty good luck with it. I have a good feeling that it was made in China (#@#$@#$@$@#%%!), however, it is very solidly built.

If you don't know, or haven't heard of Charlie Milazzo, he is a local fellow (well, an hour away from me), Army vet, F-class shooter, with much experience with the M14 and specializes in building bolt sniper rifles for LE. Great guy, with knowledge that just makes me shake my head. Anyhow, he put this together for us, got the scope mounted as low as it could go (so low, we can't use the iron sights and the paperwork says you can.)

We added a cheekrest that we got from a fellow in Canada (see URL by my name) and it has turned out very slick. We have this rifle set up like this and my sniper team partner continues to play with it to see if it would hold up to a sniper school. The magic 1 MOA standard is pretty strict at LE schools and we want to make sure that it flies.

Vaughn Johnson
WI, - Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 18:37:17 (ZULU)

Gents,

Wow! I sure didn't mean to start a shit storm when I made my original post. Nice to see folks appearing from defilade...guess it worked, hehe.

We all have experiences and opinions. Sometimes they differ. Doesn't mean the other guy is right or wrong. Just goes in the "inquiring minds" category. One thing I love about this list is no matter what we respect each other. We may piss in each others oatmeal every now and then, but are grown up enough to get a new bowl (in some cases just cover it up with brown sugar) and move on.

Joe M., Your take on reflex is good. Personally I'll swing both ways. My fixed sights pop up for use through my optics...

Will someone please develop a emoticon for "I've been bagged"? No Sheep involved, please.

As always, my best to all.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 19:00:47 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Do you still have the M25 that Geoff Corn built for you? What mount did you have that one? I thought you had the BPT mount?

I still have two M14's. The BPT has worked good for years.

You are correct about the instructions for installing the mount. I kept playing with the mount until I found a way to mount it so the scope was within about 3moa windage. I mount it in a fashion that gives me exactly 15moa of additional elevation for Service Rifle Long Range matches. It also seems to improve stability.

I seem to recall several years ago a serious debate about the use of scoped M14's for serious sniper duty. I also recall more than once that I had to put on the flame resistant skivvies because I liked the system. I agree that the M14 is not a replacement for a real sniper rifle. I felt that way years ago too, but probably didn't articulate it well enough then( I still have the burnt skivvies to prove it).

I assume that the current discussion is about adapting surplus M14's for possible use as more of a DM rifle than as a true sniper rifle?

BK, are you still having problems finding M14 mags for guys in Iraq?

Has anybody here had any experience with the M14's that have been converted to SOPMOD's?

I haven't posted in a very long time, but I still check the roster regularly.

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Rural, KY, USA - Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 22:30:00 (ZULU)

I have a Remington 700 VSF 308,Im going to be ordering the mcmillan A5 stock for it. Will there be a problem if next year I rebarrel with the 5R barrel?Also what trigger guard should I get?I want a thicker steel one,not the stock one.

Jon Kujawa
Princeton, MN, USA - Tuesday, November 15, 2005, at 22:38:21 (ZULU)

Jon Kujawa: I take it your not sending the action to McBros or a gunsmith for installation and bedding? If the stock is inletted for the Rem 700 than it should fit but it won't be a perfect match. That's where the bedding comes in. If you plan to rebarrel and change the trigger guard soon than I would not bed it at this time. I would just mount it, shoot it, and get comfortable with it and don't expect super results. When you rebarrel you will probably go more for a match target contour barrel than a varmint contour so have the barrel channel made a little wider it will save someone additional work later. Also you might go for a different recoil lug latter with the new barrel. I'm not sure what options McBros has but you should talk to them and tell them what you want to do before you send the check. The biggest issue would be with the trigger gaurd, recoil lug and the stock. If they make the stock for a Rem trigger guard than if you later replace that with a DD, Badger, Dakota, etc. it more than likely will require additional fitting of the stock. Most of the heavier trigger guards are also a little bigger and wider and don't exactly match Remington's, only where the screws meet so cutting and glassing usually will need to be done to fill the gaps and get the right fit. Myself, if I'm not replacing the trigger with something exotic like a canjar set trigger or looking to add a detachable mag setup or something similiar that works better with a wider finger loop, than I tend to leave the stock trigger guard. I am not out humping 24x7 and I try not to drop my rifles so to me that's cosmetic, but that's me so it's your preference and requirements. I rather invest in a top quality base, rings and optics so I don't loose zero from every little tap. The stock trigger guard more than likely will survive most bangs and dings. I'm not a gunsmith, but I have done dozens of rebarrel jobs and replacement stocks and I have a dozen rifles or so with McMillan, AI, Rimrock, HS and other stocks. Consider your options when you order. Unless you know what LOP is right for you in a variety of shooting positions than a spacer system works fine. You can spend more on the target type if you want to but that's just more screws and bolts to loosen up when you don't want them to. Adjustible cheek rests are fine but to me it's something else to break or go wrong. I know I have a few. A $30 Eagle works fine and foam and tape are even cheaper. Most of the adjustible cheekpiece stocks I have, have to be lowered to remove the bolt. The wear and tear and recoil tend to loosen things and eventually they break. One thing I do like on a bolt action rifle is the forearm channel rail. You can position the studs for a bipod or sling in many different locations. To me this is a good option. The rifles that I don't have a rail on I probably bought the stock used or on sale and it didn't have one so it's as is. There's a lot of options so think about it. Over the years though, I think it's best to plan on what you want to do with your rifle action and wait and do it all at the same time and have a gunsmith do it. In the long run you'll save money and you'll have the finished project as it should be. You'll be happier!! This is especially true if you are limited in what you have to shoot and with cash. Myself, I have more guns than anyone should own. And how many is that? Never enough!!! So to me I can experiment and waste a little money. If you don't have that luxury than research and consider your options. Then ask as you are doing.

My new project this year is an old Weatherby Mark V action. Pac Nor is doing a 30-338 barrel for me and I haven't decided on which stock to go with, the A5 or the Weatherby TRR desert.?? Oh and then there's the the AR10, although I'm finding parts hard to get and each manufacturer has different specs. This is worst than a compatible computer.

Anyway. Maybe I'll have something new for the ASC match in May or maybe I'll just have to work with my 30-378 and hope the barrel doesn't go from practicing. I have about 400 rounds through it. They say you should get about 800-900 out of a barrel but maybe not.

TonyY
Woodbridge, NJ, - Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 00:06:03 (ZULU)

BILL BLEDSOE:

Hey man FINDING M14 mags is no problem. Buying them ... is.

We are close to broke pal. Donations slowed way down.

We have supported snipers in 301 platoons of the US military.

We are currently supporting snipers in 235 platoons.

Need every M14 mag I can get my hands on.

Damn near every shooter in the entire 101st Abn. needs 'em.

brian k. sain
Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 00:59:32 (ZULU)

My best friend's site.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/index.htm

brian k. sain
Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 01:12:34 (ZULU)

Tony,

I think that I will not get the guard.I already have the good bases rings,optics.The Rifle shoots better than I could ever shoot.The thing is that I shoot in F-class shooting,All prone.I want the A5 more for comfort.The new A5 should come with a bedding block Right? The stock I have now has one,I have done some reading and they say you should bed the action even with the bedding block.Is that true?

Thanks

jon.

Jon Kujawa
Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 01:36:21 (ZULU)

Jon: The Rem VS stock is made by HS Precision I believe. They use alunimum bedding blocks that they say require no bedding. I have a different opinion on bedding blocks. They may or may not be what they claim. All the HS stocks that I have owned are from the factory and probably were built in mass quantities. Weatherby, Magnum reasearch, and Rem to name a few are made by HS and I can say first hand the barrel is not free floating all the time as they claim. Some were and some were not. I would imagine a custom stock ordered from them would be. McMillian stocks do not have a bedding block. At least I can say that for the A2, A3, A4, McHale and thier sporting stocks I own. If you send your action to them or another gunsmith they can bed it and add pilliars glassed into the stock and insure correct alignment. This is just my experiences that I have had with their products. (I sure wish MCBros would come back with the Fiber Grain option. I have one on a pre 64 win and no one can tell that it's not English walnut)

As far as bedding goes you might want to search the SC archieves. There may be other opinions and expertise above mine.

TonyY
Woodbridge, NJ, - Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 02:59:45 (ZULU)

Gents,

My scavenging is surreal. It is akin to a "wish factory." I decided that I needed a in/pound torque wrench to re-attach the barreled action--and whuddya know? I now have three.

I'm wishing for a magic lost shipment of M14 mags for BKS's boys. Let's see if I can stretch my silly luck some. I'll put out an APB with the "crew." It turns out that some agencies and activities have hired professional scavengers (contractors) to do what I am doing--but for particular "thingies." CECOM has a dude hunting circuit boards and such, TACOM has team looking for the "top 200 auto parts" and some alphabet command has a guy doing aviation/ missile stuff. We literally have 200+ acres of boxes and heaps, always rotating. We coordinated (I kinda linked them all up) what we are each looking for--so that we can share info on what we find and where it is. I handed out some garmins I dug up so we can mark locales. Heheh. BTW--These guys have "targets" in terms of dollar value recovered. With coordinated effort--they are smoking these goals. Where I am happy with a 10 grand day--they look at millions. You taxpayers should be happy hearing this stuff. Without this effort---this stuff gets torched and sold as scrap. Now, I will print out pics of M14 mags and say, "need these bad. real bad..." If there are any to find, they will be found.

I needed a battery box for PVS7s---and got one NIB. Now i can start testing tubes (I picked up piles of these, and all the other major component parts for 7s). I bet some, or most will work. BTW, these are the newer IIIs and the very newer IVs (autogated, unfilmed 24/7 usable types). I also have a small horde of 14/ 18 tubes. Joe's upgrades. The boys in the local avim do my purging--and a certain depo in PA is getting slighted here. Nothing personal, but their turn-around sucks and the stuff goes back into the "system" and not to the original user. I find that to be useless to those who "need it now." Tis why I branched out into this unknown world of electro-optical gizmosis. I can plug-n-play lost tubes and return directly--or on occasion, create a capability where none existed for a unit.

I forget what my real job was over here...something to do with snitching on one general to another.

And, you get a weather report: Rainy season is upon us already (a bit early by week or two).

Sarge Jr: How you boyz doing on gortex? Need some? The computers do not have harddrives. No problem, though: The guys who take them out are now my friends. As soon as they finish with a project--they will see what we can do for you. In the meantime, I now have 12 to try to make work. Odds are damned good that 3 of these will do just that. And the software will be loaded (XP OS, and all assorted MS and army stuff).

Hell, if it came to it, i could build a HMMVW. Heheh. I did build a dewalt contractor's table saw from two with differing problems...this place is...

crazy.

BKS: Did I say "secret" somewhere?

Joe M

joe m
Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 05:00:42 (ZULU)

JonK-Pillar bedding was done orignally to prevent bending the rear of the action of miliatry Mausers, and to keep from compressing the wood in wood stocks. It's a waste of time & money on a Mac fiberglass stock-IMHO.

All the bottom metal does is act as a washer for the action bolts. Ok, it can add some stiffness to the action. If you just gotta have a steel floorplate look at the Williams. It may not be as rigid as the big money floorplates, but it's a LOT more reasonable. What the USMC did was weld up Winchester 70 floorplates and machine new boltholes. The Winnie floorplate was $20 or so.

And someone asked about specs on 30-06 Winchester sniper rifles. Most of those were from battalion (and higher) recreational stores and unit competition rifle teams. Check collector books on what Winnie target rifles looked like for the correct time period.

WR Moore
Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 13:07:16 (ZULU)

You are a good man Joe.

Gonna be home around SHOT SHOW time? February 8-12?

brian k. sain
Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 14:16:30 (ZULU)

M14 scope mounts -

It doesn't matter one twit what mount you stick on an M14. Although some ARE better than others.

What matters is the guy that mounts it for you. Better to have it done by a smith who really knows his M14 shit than to end up like Bravo with several new colorful words added to your vocabulary!

Geoff Corn built my M25 as well as Bravo's and Sir Wes's. I would trust him any day to do so.

But if you ever remove that mount all bets are off!

Moe

Moe Mensale
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 14:45:44 (ZULU)

Joe Sir: We are doing good on gortex, and if any of those computers have harddrives then just go ahead and send them this way and we can get them working because remember sir I am one of those Commo/IMO geeks and I work with a hole lot of guys that know this stuff too, but if there is anything else you think we might need just either send it our way and we will find a use for it or give it to someone who can use it, and sir if you need anything that I might be able to help you with just let me know and I will see what I can do.

Everyone Else: Just thought I would say HI and that I am doing good and as Joe M said rainy season started already and man is it a mess and a half felt like my boot soles gained about 3 or 4 inches today. Well other than that my wife, step-daughter and unborn son are doing good and on their way to visit Sarge.

Dad: I just wanted to say HI and that I miss y'all and Love y'all and that I will talk to y'all soon and hopefully be home sooner than we thought but don't tell anyone.

This is Sarge Jr. Over and Out

"TO THE TOP"

Sarge Jr.
Fort Drum, NY, USA - Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 15:49:39 (ZULU)

JoeM,

You using lb/in torque for fitting barreled actions?

Why I still defend these guys to the death, I don't know,

HS stocks might not be free floating on some of the remington barreled actions, because they don't account for the poor QC from remington. Remington should be checking for this at their end, where the actions are fitted..Unsquare action face/barrel mate, unsquare recoil lug fit, along with remingtons snake barrels(put a remington sporter barrel on rollers, the muzzle points up while the chamber points down and a little to the left) A 'custom' made stock sent to customer would be no different than the stocks they send remington..Unless HS fitted the barreled action themselves..They are checked against the same remington mandrel..But all remmies are not the same..

MedicJim,

Or any doctor/medical types...The past few mornings have been waking up with very sharp pains along my inside left leg, from thigh to knee, and the left side of my quadricep just above the knee is often completely numb lately, even just now..Do I have a blood clot and am I gonna need a prostrate exam followed by castration? I had bad back last weekend, and am wondering if the treatment has jarred something else loose that is now constricting my pucker string..tried soaking it once or twice in cider, but it didn't seem to help after 5 minutes or so..Wonder if my electrics aren't out of whack..

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 19:02:47 (ZULU)

Well well well! Look who turns up! Haven't seen you around here in a long time my friend, it's great to know you're still around! I really hope you're doing well, haven't heard from you since shortly after the massive career change. Is that going well for you?

You can bet that I'll always have that '25 somewhere, somehow. If not it, something that's really close. Since I got it from Geoff, it's always worn the ARMS18 mount, although it's the older type, not the one currently produced. And yes, I did have the BPT on that stick, but that was before I sent it off to Geoff.

Like you, I've still got the burned skivvies. Well, actually BF kept those along with most everything else, but I don't care ;-) Like you, I was thinking one thing, and saying another, when calling it a sniper stick. I've always considered a scoped '14 the epitome of a sharpshooters stick, although the name changes depending on whom I'm talking with. DMR, spotters rifle, it's all the same. The problem is, in my AO, if you say spotters rifle or DMR, you're often looked at like a pig looks at a wristwatch. Sniper rifle though, they understand that concept.

Not the same as a boltgun, but I can work this one as fast as I care to LOL!

The next iteration will be much more rack grade than this one is, I'm hoping to keep the poundage way down. With no scope mount (on the LRB 1913 receiver), it ought to be rugged enough. Depending on the weights either a heavily fluted medium contour, or a standard GI contour, from a good barrel. I doubt it'll keep the 22 rounds all in one spot like this one does, but I'm hoping to drop at least 5 pounds, and hopefully 7.

Drop me a line Bill!

Bravo
Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 19:03:15 (ZULU)

JR - detailed response in email, no attachments

medicjim
Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 19:35:22 (ZULU)

Re: GDI mount for M14? I've spent several hours this afternoon checking the Patent Office Filings and Issued data bases and can find nothing on GDI or M14. "Patent Pending" is supposed to mean that a patent ap has been filed and positive action taken by the PTO. The info on the patent should be public domain if it is truly PP.

Does anyone know what's supposed to be patented/patentable on this mount, or who the patent is being issued to? It looks an awful lot like my ARMS to me.

If it works, I want one. I'll be from Missouri on this, though.

Mike

BMG Mike
Austx, USA - Wednesday, November 16, 2005, at 23:27:19 (ZULU)

M-14 mags;

I know where several are but Hurricane Katrina wasn't very friendly to them. Some are pretty good, others would be parts bin items, but all are USGI as far as I know.

If they don't have to be in really good condition, I may can talk those fellas out of them and give them a good cleaning, media blasting and a shot of paint. Will that work out?

Will aftermarket mags be sufficient? I think I can get a couple of those too.

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Thursday, November 17, 2005, at 02:11:26 (ZULU)

JR: Got a better way? The book says if you apply x-torque to mounting screws, all remains the same for zero.

joe m
Thursday, November 17, 2005, at 06:21:59 (ZULU)

OK guys talk to me about the .300 Winchester Short Mag!! Looking for a hunting rifle, at least it'll start life as one, and this round is tweaking my interest! How are the rifles, Winchester 70 in current livery, what are you'all getting for performance? What are some of the better loads, etc, etc, etc! You'all know what I'm asking!

Thanks gang!

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Thursday, November 17, 2005, at 18:02:25 (ZULU)

JoeM,

Sorry mate, I was reading that you were fitting barrels to actions..Duh!!Mount screws and action screws to fix it to stocks, yes, you are fine with lb/in torque ratings...Ha, disregard my stupidity....

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Thursday, November 17, 2005, at 18:33:12 (ZULU)

Sarge,

I've a 270WSM back in SoDak which drives the 130 grain bullets just plain flat and hard..For hunting purposes, it's the bees knees..Probably will rebarrel the action(Win Model 70) to 300 WSM when this barrel goes, do me a long range riffle..

I think I have the web address right, but check this site out:

www.shortmags.org

good info, good loading data from hodgdon, viht, and others..

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Thursday, November 17, 2005, at 18:38:12 (ZULU)

Hey guys, need a bit of help here.

I was looking at my rice rifle yesterday and decided to see if there is any cant. To my surprise I noticed something odd. But before I go into it, let me say what preparation I have done.

1. Plum line – confirmed it with a leveler.

2. Taped a small bubble leveler on my bushing wrench and confirm that it is accurate

3. Placed leveler on the Badger single mount rail

4. Secured the scope using a long Velcro strap – this is used for adjusting the scope

Rifle Information:

1. McMillan Standard stock

2. 308 Short

3. Badger Mount and Ring

4. LEUPOLD MARK 4 3.5X-10X 40MM M3 LR

Now the fun begins. As I level the rifle, via the leveler, the scope has a small cant.

When I level the cross hair on the plum line, there is a cant on the rifle.

When I level out the rifle, via the prone shooting position and I adjust the cross hair via my eye balls, then I cross reference it with the plum line, the cross hair is not flush with the plum line but slightly off.

When I have my rifle leveled out, then align my cross hair with the plum line, the cross hair does not appear to be level. In fact, the vertical cross hair appears to me as if it is slightly canted to the left from top to bottom. Or, as another reference, the bottom of the cross hair appears to be not center of the rear of the bolt but to the right of it.

Conclusion, I suspect that the single base might not be centered on the receiver but this is just my guess. My other thought is that my eyes are just playing tricks on me. I will be investigating this a bit more but nevertheless, I am a bit bewildered though.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated on this. One question, how much does cant really play when shooting out to 1000 yards?

Darren

Semper Fi

Darren
Bay Area, Ca, USA - Thursday, November 17, 2005, at 20:21:57 (ZULU)

Darren- there's some info in the articles section on this and there have been some lengthy posts. However:" when I have my rifle flush...." WTF, over?

The kittywackers system was to do a vertical centerline on the rifle butt and get the rifle vertical with reference to a free hanging plumb line. Then with the rifle locked in position, align the vertical crosshair on the scope with that same plumb line. HOWEVER, if the vertical adjustment screw axis on the scope is off, further adjustment is necessary.

To verify, place a long target (cause you're gonna have groups 20" or more apart) at 100 yards and fire a group. Then wind your elevation turret up to its max elevation and fire a group. With a plumb bob & line, check to make sure the group centers are in vertical alignment. Or, using the plumb line, place target dots in vertical alignment, say 20" apart and shoot 2 groups with the hold on the lower dot. If not, adjust scope to make it so and verify by test.

If it's any comfort to you, I aligned my vertical crosshair with the rifle in prone with a sling. When checked against any reasonable measure, it appears canted. However, when fired from the bipod at 1000 yards with the wind from 12 o clock, my windage adjustment was zero. So, I'm not gonna mess with it.

WR Moore
Thursday, November 17, 2005, at 22:01:26 (ZULU)

WR, duly noted on "when I have my rifle flush...." I have corrected that.

I know that this has been hashed over through the years, my fingers just got tired of performing a search and reading what I already know. Just wanted to know if anyone else, after aligning their cross hair, notice that their cross hair appears canted when their rifle is leveled.

"When checked against any reasonable measure, it appears canted." This sounds exactly like what I have. When I am not in the prone position, but say the kneeling position, it looks right on. I am now a bit curious to why this is - need to dwell on it for a bit now.

As for your suggestion, it sounds like a very good idea. I will try that out next time I am at the range.

Darren...

Semper Fi

Darren
Thursday, November 17, 2005, at 22:37:59 (ZULU)

.300WSM;

Here is a good (but kinda long) story. The fella that wrote it used a .300WSM with great effect in South Africa.

http://www.savageshooters.net/Hunting/2005-Safari-Part1.html

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Thursday, November 17, 2005, at 23:10:52 (ZULU)

Darren,Do you wear Glasses or Contacts??

Do you have Astigmatism in you shooting eye??

Is it corrected ??

What scope ??

Is it set Parallax free at the distance you have the plumb line set up ??

These things can and will effect your results.

Regards & Good Shooting,

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, US of A - Thursday, November 17, 2005, at 23:17:41 (ZULU)

Sarge,

I don't know how you feel about 7 mm's, but some folks are really jazzed about the 7 WSM over the 300. One guy has both, and says the 7 is all over the 300 at distance.

Just a thought. I don't have a dog in this fight. I have enough problems just figuring out the .308.

Jim

JimT
Soldotna, AK, - Friday, November 18, 2005, at 10:25:04 (ZULU)

Sarge, the world record at 1 mile was set using a 7WSM, not a bad round. I am with you on the 300WSM, though. I just saw one used with pretty devistating effect in ultra-high wind conditions in Africa (the article to which Jody refers-I was one of the professional hunters). Several shots over 300m with wind from every direction thru the hills and valleys averaging 35 to 40 mph (and I ain't exagerating-Marius and Jody can back me up on that). That 300WSM was a laser beam with 180gr Swift Scirroccos. I have seen the round choke on the common 190 and 200gr fodder the 300 winmag likes so well, but I think it would be just the ticket for slinging 175gr SMK's and Scenars down range-with no problem on dropping 800 pound critters at 400m or so with the right bullet (big nod to the Swifts).

Marius, Still looking for a postal address, got some stuff to send ya.

Rob

Robert Martin
PSL, FL, US - Friday, November 18, 2005, at 11:34:19 (ZULU)

About the best way I've been able to figure out to level a scope is to put a level on the base, then line the vertical crosshair up with a vertical line a hundred yards away, usually one I've drawn using a 4 foot ruler on reference marks made with a plumb bob.

I don't know how much cant really affects long distance shooting - I've seen a mathematical analysis with highly-suspect numbers. As long as the rifle is reasonably level, I suspect the effect gets lost in the wind, as a 1 mph crosswind at 1000 yards moves a Sierra 175 MatchKing 10 inches, and I mostly shoot in places where the wind is usually over 5 miles per hour.

Yesterday, at 1000 yards, I was holding 3 mils for the wind.

One of my Leupolds has a reticle in which the two crosshairs are not perfectly orthogonal, which creates a problem in deciding when the scope is "level".

A level attached to the rifle is mostly useful to me when I'm shooting on ground which is sloped laterally, like the side of a hill.

Lindy
An Undisclosed Secure Location, U.S.A. - Friday, November 18, 2005, at 12:50:27 (ZULU)

Cant, where's that 'lito-san character?? Just a few random thoughts on the subject

What action are you using? Remington is notorious for poor alignment of screw holes for sights, sometimes I wish they wouldn't bother and let us drill the holes...If that is the problem(there a gunsmith near you to check?), they can be redrilled and tapped for larger screws, and badger will supply the larger screws to suit..badger sells a sweet little v-block fixture to do this job..

The rifle isn't sitting slightly 'squint' in the bedding, is it?

Generally, after leveling the rifle and aligning the vert off a plum line, I will recheck the tracking using a boresighter..Wind the turrets up and down, left and right, make sure the cross is tracking true..But the true test is on the target. Like WR Moore I'll hang a large target at 100 with plumb line hung, find a good aiming point after zeroing, and fire a couple rounds, wind the scope up a few minutes(holding on initial aiming point), fire a couple more, wind a couple more minutes fire, repeat until I run out of adjustment..Then I check the target for any particular trend which would indicate the scope isn't tracking..adjust the scope in the rings if need be, fire a few more rounds to confirm and that's that..Easier when the wind isn't blowing, but is a good method, thanks catman..Easier when shooting off a front rest and rear bag or bull bag than a bipod, but not so bad if your bipod's swivel will lock off(pod loc) and can get a rear bag or sock under the butt to get the rifle locked down.

When I do find it's shooting, will usually scribe a wee witness mark on the back of the rear ring and scope where it meets the ring..Just in case have to take the rifle apart and line the scope back up again..Wish scope manufacturers would mark the centreline of the vert on the scope tube, would make life so much simpler..

Oh, and BTW, some shooters do purposely cant their scope for their shooting application..

Cheerios

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Friday, November 18, 2005, at 13:07:24 (ZULU)

What about the RIFFLE RAFFLE???????????????

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Friday, November 18, 2005, at 14:00:50 (ZULU)

JR: Hey, my clarity of thought and my words here ain't always in sync...action screws and barreled actions being tossed about by me only creates confusion. But at least I know what I am talking about. Too bad I ain't communicating with anyone else.

Speaking of barreled actions; I found a US-GI M14 receiver/ barrel. Everyone had thought it a russian system all the way to the trash can. Jeez. Now I feel really old.

300WSM. Versus 7mm? Hmmm. Dead paper is dead paper I suppose. But I would bet my life the 300 won't shrink down to .280 or shed much past 140grs on impact. I like that version of winnie's short cases. As soon as i see some stability in geography--I'll either go with a GA rocket or a A3 SPR in the 300. A bigger hammer would require a brake or a suppressor---neither of which turns me on (cost or blast bing th downsides).

Speaking of not being home...Thank you Geoff!

For those (everyone) not in the know--he will guide Blake on what i hope to be his first successful deer hunt. Some may remember his "short stroked" misfire last year and the lost opportunity. Heheh---slightly long standing broadside. Such opportunity! Dad has little room to talk, after shooting mine, I let my lenses snow-up to the vasoline view...I was of no help here either. Heheh.

Maybe y'all will get a shot at that 14-pointer. He beds down off the top of the hill in front there (just before the driveway as you come in), and crosses the swamp/ fence behind the barn at sun-up. He comes back in at dusk on the western field and skirts the lowside by the drainage towards that house in the north west. Sometimes he circles on the back side, thru the back valley and over into the CQB hunting zone during the late mornings. Heheh. Can you tell I was interested?

That folks is why I count this guy among a very few, very good friends. Stepping in and dragging your bud's kid around is a big sacrifice for a wisconsin deer hunter! Ha! Deer season is as rabid there as any I've seen elsewhere--if not more so!

Cant: Geez. I've tried everything I can think of, and I always find some degree of suspected cant. But heck---things work after a fashion and i just ignore whatever cant I imagine. I think my perspective is canted. Levels, plumb lines, boresighters...but, it shoots as advetised---and that is my only confirmation that it is close to true. We are talking minutes of angle here, not degrees. At this point--you, like me, have become overly anal.

On the other hand, if your backyard does not give you a 800 yard shot on your targets to confirm, then anal is the only way to go. The match is the last place to find a bit of cant, eh?

joe m
Friday, November 18, 2005, at 14:23:47 (ZULU)

M14 mounts:

Our section has 4 M21 sniper rifles with ART II scopes. We still train with them every once in a while, but since we got the M24SWS we do not use them much. The one problem we have with the rifle is the scope mount. We always have to make sure that the mount is tight. One of the guys in our section bought an M1A. He mounted a scope on it with a Brookfield scope mount. Once he installed the mount on it has not come loose. I had the rifle for a couple of months and I shot about 300 rounds though it and the mount never came loose. We are thinking about buying some of these mounts for the M21's we have.

SFC Pete Carpentier JR TXNG
C.C., TX, USA - Friday, November 18, 2005, at 18:26:28 (ZULU)

OK gang think I've made up my mind. Remington 700SPS in .300WSM. Basically the SPS is the BDL with a synthetic stock, with the R3 recoil pad, their version of the Limb Saver pad, and hinged floor plate.

Figure it for a hunting rifle for now then when I eventually, if ever, shoot out the barrel turn it into a longer range rifle maybe replacing my SCLE GA rifle in the WAY DISTANT future.

Thoughts?

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Friday, November 18, 2005, at 19:58:55 (ZULU)

Test

Jim Anderson
OKC, OK, - Friday, November 18, 2005, at 20:49:09 (ZULU)

Hey,long time no post

Had a kid two years ago and built a house at the same time. Just had time to look up and realized I hadn't posted in two years.

Looking for an answer on something. I just had a Gemtech TPR-S suppressor installed on my department KMW Rifle. Shoots 168's great the instructions are very clear on not shooting heavy sub sonic stuff through suppressor. Due to the possibility of baffle damage from the not yet stabalized "heavy" bullets. Does anybody know if muzzle velocity is a major concern in projectile stabalization?

My question, If 168's stabalize at 2700 fps will they stabalize at 1075 fps out of the same gun. 1-11 twist KMW .308 rifle?????

I am not looking for a guess, If you know great if not zip it.

Thank You

Deputy Jim Anderson

Oklahoma County Sheriff Range Master

JIM ANDERSON
OKC, OK, USA - Friday, November 18, 2005, at 21:05:12 (ZULU)

The United States Army Marksmanship Unit will host the 2006 Army Rifle and Pistol Championships at the United States Army Infantry Center, Fort Benning, Georgia from 3 March thru 11 March 2006, and the US Army Long-Range Championships from 12 to 14 March. Training and competitions are open to all Soldiers of all Army components, all ranks, units, and MOSs, including West Point and college ROTC cadets.

The All-Army is an advance combat marksmanship training event and competition. All Soldiers fire both the M16 and M9 in helmet and load-bearing equipment (body armor optional) from 25 to 500 yards with the M16 and 7 to 25 yards with the M9. Teams from battalion-level compete for unit recognition and team awards. All Soldiers will receive advance marksmanship instruction and training materials to conduct Train-the-Trainer clinics on return to home station.

The US Army Long-Range Championships will provide M14 and M24 Long Range shooting training from 600 to 1,000 yards. This is an excellent vehicle for those Soldiers and units reorganized into Brigade Combat Teams and Reconnaissance Battalions who do not hold MOS 11 or 18 and cannot attend the US Army Sniper School.

The All-Army Matches are designed to raise the shooting proficiency of Soldiers and units across the Army by teaching advance combat marksmanship techniques using issue rifles and pistols. Coaches and NCOICs of the US Army Rifle and Pistol Teams, Army Reserve, and All-Guard Teams scout, identify, and invite selected Soldiers to compete at the Interservice Championships and the National Matches. Soldiers selected to represent the Active Army are funded by the USAMU.

The All-Army Matches consist of Small Arms Firing Schools; the Secretary of the Army Matches; Chief of Staff of the Army Matches; Sergeant Major of the Army Team Matches; Excellence-in-Competition Matches; and special combat matches. Champions will be awarded All-Army trophies and Excellence-in-Competition marksmanship badges (permanent-wear awards described in AR 600-22 above the standard marksman, sharpshooter, and expert qualification badges). The most coveted awards are Secretary of the Army Trophy M1 Garand Rifles. A new Drill Sergeant Champion award has been commissioned for 2005.

Soldiers compete in separate "Novice", "Open", and "Pro" classes based on their competition experience. Soldiers assigned to TDA units and ROTC Cadets may coordinate with the AMU S3 for a limited number of loaner weapons.

For additional information, registration, and match bulletin visit the US Army Marksmanship Unit web site at www.usamu.com, or contact the USAMU S3/Chief of Competitions at (706) 545-7841, or michael.behnke@usaac.army.mil or clarence.fedrick@usaac.army.mil.

sinister
Saturday, November 19, 2005, at 00:58:04 (ZULU)

Jim,

Some answers and information headed your way via e-mail.

Just to clarify...velocity has a big effect on bullet stabilization with subsonic ammo. LOTS of variables...

Sinister,

Good to see you post. Thanks for carrying the flag...

Darn, those posts about the matches almost make me wish I'd gone Army...

Not intersted in a second service career, however.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Saturday, November 19, 2005, at 04:02:42 (ZULU)

JIM ANDERSON: Re subsonic stabilization

There are more aspects to "will it stabilize?" than implied by your question. The question might better be put "when will it stabilize?". If the answer is "Immediately" then it can be fired through a suppressor without baffle strikes. If the answer is "eventually" it may be useful(?) without the suppressor, but dangerous with it.

The initial yaw can be pretty severe at low velocities on boat-tail bullets, hence the concern about baffle strikes. Flat-base round nose is much less subject to low bvelocity yaw.

I suggest that you contact Whit Engel (sales at EBR-inc dot net) and discuss this issue with him. He's done years of research on subsonic stabilization and developed some superb ammo implementing his results. Caveat: He's a friend of mine, so my opinions may be biased. He's probably forgotten more on this topic than most of us will ever learn.

Doc Dater at Gemtech (techstaff at gem-tech dot com) may also be a good resource.

(usual symbol conversion and space removal required for valid email addr above)

HTH

Mike

BMG Mike
Austx, USA - Saturday, November 19, 2005, at 04:42:13 (ZULU)

"I am not looking for a guess, If you know great if not zip it."

edited for de-escalating the rhetoric.

But really, I've come to expect decent advice here. It is kinda insulting to shove shit like that out in this crowd.

joe m
Saturday, November 19, 2005, at 08:21:10 (ZULU)

Jim A.,

I'm awaiting my tax stamp so I can pick up my HALO suppressor (that's the name of the can, not a tactic). Gemtech's owners manual says very specifically that using subsonic ammo can be bad or even dangerous because the projectile can yaw significantly and cause baffle strikes. I know people that shoot subsonic ammo and it's cool as hell but I think I'm going to stay away from it unless, by some miracle, I get called on to use it in a critical mission. :-)

Indiansinger

I'll zip it now.

Roger C. Carpenter
Sweet Potato Capital, MS, USA - Saturday, November 19, 2005, at 14:22:48 (ZULU)

Jim Anderson,

>>I am not looking for a guess, If you know great if not zip it.>>

Why is it fifes say things like that, must figure that's the way it is, the order of life, are the chosen ones...I bet if I told fife to zip it, shoe on the other foot, I'd be constrained and sodomized by a broomstick..Puts me off, that..Seriously.

Fife, the 1/11 twist will not stabilize the 168 at 1075fps, but as I'm not sure the inside diameter of the Gemtech, whether they have opened up the bore of the suppressor to account for slight instability, the best people to speak with would be Gemtech..You are looking at least 1/10" twist or faster for those velocities with those pills..Should look closer to 9 twist actually if subsonic..

JoeM,

Nee bother, half the sh** I type here, I'm pretty sure am the only one who know's what the hell I'm talking about..Happy hunting..

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Saturday, November 19, 2005, at 15:40:02 (ZULU)

Jim Anderson? Never heard of him. Who is this guy and what basis does he think he has for telling me what to do?

Some damned guys irritate me to no end.

"Rangemaster". Golly gee.

CDC'
Saturday, November 19, 2005, at 16:32:03 (ZULU)

Hey guys I have a question?Has anybody have any comments on the HS Precision HTR stocks with the bedding block already in it vs the Mcmillan A5 that I would have to bed.The HS is alot cheeper.

Jon Kujawa
Princeton, MN, USA - Saturday, November 19, 2005, at 18:04:31 (ZULU)

Jon - I actually prefer the HS stocks, but I believe I am in the minority.

medicjim
Saturday, November 19, 2005, at 19:44:59 (ZULU)

Gee guys nobody has any first hand knowledge or use of the Remington 700 SPS in .300WSM?? Still waiting for input on this specific rifle!

Undude thanks again for your input. Anybody else??

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Saturday, November 19, 2005, at 20:39:06 (ZULU)

Rifle Raffel ?? ?? ?? ??

Bolt Action Please.

Regards,

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, US of A - Saturday, November 19, 2005, at 22:00:35 (ZULU)

Fife here!!!

For those of you that resonded to my question. Thank You!!! I guess my attempt at humor was not taken well. I forget that inflection is not a part of a typed messege.

I had already sent a request to Tech info at gem-tech just haven't heard anything yet.

CDC... never heard of him. I guess he couldn't provide an answer. RANGEMASTER This is a title that I have earned, and I certanly do not need any validation from you. I get that every time one the guys I trained calls me and says thank you for giving me the skills I utilized last night to survive and prevail in a gun fight.

JR... Thank you for the information.

sorry if I ruffled any fragile feathers.

Jim Anderson

Rangmaster

Oklahoma County Sheriff

Jim Anderson
OKC, OK, - Saturday, November 19, 2005, at 22:39:57 (ZULU)

TITLES!

Reminds me of a happening way back in the 1960's. I was flying a trip with a San Francisco layover so I called up an old college friend and set up a get-together for my next trip. Hadn't seen him since he earned his Doctorate in aeronautical engineering. He was going to school while I was flying in the Navy. Met him in the bar and asked if I was supposed to call him "Doctor"? His reply was,"You little S.O.B.if you call me Doctor I'll knock you on your ass!" I said "Good. You haven't changed a bit". I was then informed that his title and a $5.00 bill would buy you a cup of coffee in most places. ;o)

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The chilly Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, November 19, 2005, at 23:53:41 (ZULU)

RANGEMASTER: "CDC... never heard of him."

I am not the guy who came in to a site where I was unknown then told the locals to "...zip it".

"I guess he couldn't provide an answer."

Neither could you.

"RANGEMASTER This is a title that I have earned..."

Golly.

CDC'
Sunday, November 20, 2005, at 01:08:36 (ZULU)

Jim Anderson - CDC is the resident math guru, he will come in handy if you need to drill deeper into the "why does it work that way" aspects of your moderator question.

medicjim
Sunday, November 20, 2005, at 02:10:01 (ZULU)

Jim Anderson,

Titles don't impress too many of these guys around here. Most of them have several. Take me for example,

Rangemaster

Firearms Instructor

Sniper Team Leader

and to the guys on my shift,

Lt, or asshole depending on if I'm in hearing range or not. ;-)

But rest assured that just about any question you ask will get answered by someone here.

Take care!

Rob Opp

Robert Opp
Jamestown, ND, USA - Sunday, November 20, 2005, at 03:16:38 (ZULU)

Torpedo..Launch!!

Time for the Nurse to bring you guys the pills.....

Jim Andersen, OH yeah.....

Real Deal LE firearms instructor. 8 yrs swat. team sniper and all that ....

Likes Glocks. cryo barrels. Rather get closer if possible.

Prefers low powered optics for LE work for their field of view.

Easily bored. Will probably kill your skilled ass in a gun fight before you can blink.

Deadly out to at least 600 with a bolt rifle and probably will get closer if he can cause he's smart....but his range card goes to 1k.

opinionated as hell. (why not?) They don't let pussys do that stuff.

Rangemaster hell, I was a rangemaster he was just signing his mail adr. Don't draw on him on a straight whiskey night!

HI JIm!

The young guys memorys are as short as their dicks!

I will slither back under the rock now!

Brogers
Sunday, November 20, 2005, at 04:53:27 (ZULU)

Bill: "Don't draw on him on a straight whiskey night!"?

I have no idea what means.

"They don't let pussys do that stuff."

"Pussys" aside, there are certainly rangemasters and swat guys that can't hit a bull on the ass with a bucket. Many - if not most - of them are laughable. And some are quite good.

Well,...whatever. This guy may be okay. I don't know.

In any case it is good to see you back. I was a little concerned that you may have been having health problems. Someone posted that you are spending time with one or more grandkids. That sounds great.

Jk: For actual use, HS stocks are competitive with anything out there. You can get a take-off from the emporium for about a hundred bucks. It can easily be modified to fit you.

CDC'
Sunday, November 20, 2005, at 06:07:07 (ZULU)

jk,

Re. the HS stock. The only downside I see here is that they advertise is as not needing to be bedded. Research on the 'net has shown that it is close but not bedding exempt. Sometimes there is enough.........inaccuracy? in the bedding block that it can keep the barreled action from reaching its true potential. (sounds like a preschool evaluation). Manufacturing tolerances not being perfect?

Someone help me out here.

I like my HS stock, but it isn't a McMillan.

I'm going to crawl into my foxhole and pull in overhead cover now.

Jim

P.S. Would someone please translate JR's last post?

JimT
Soldotna, AK, - Sunday, November 20, 2005, at 08:14:23 (ZULU)

The guy that built my .308 said that most people think that bedding a HS stock isn't necessary. But he and a high ranking west coast FBI firearms instructor did some testing and found that a bedded HS stock was more accurate overall than one that is not. So far, after about 5 years, the theory seems to be supported.

FYI,

I have a big bull in the pasture behind the house. I hit HIM in the ass with a bucket the other day and he chased me around the 60 acres for about 20 minutes. :-)

Indiansinger

Roger C. Carpenter
Sweet Potato Capital, MS, USA - Sunday, November 20, 2005, at 15:31:47 (ZULU)

Guys,

Recently drove through Oklahoma county. Was one of about 4 people on the road doing under 90 mph. Never saw a cop pull anyone over. Musta been too busy bestowing useless titles on each other.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., - Sunday, November 20, 2005, at 16:16:33 (ZULU)

H.S. Precision Stocks---Have had several over the years on Rem 700s and 40Xs. All performed better after bedding in Marine Tex but two performed even better after two different gunsmiths insisted on installing their own aluminum pillars through the H.S. aluminum bedding block in addition to Marine Tex final bedding. Both smiths claimed that the extra pillars produced less stress in the bedding. I was skeptical but the results were better groups and repeatable point of impact after removal and replacement of stock on barreled action. I now have McMillans on my rifles but I am shooting custom actions for varmint and BR rifles. I still have the trusty old McMillan GP Hunting stock on my M40A1 clone. Many new stocks have hit the market in the last few years but that old stock still works for me.

critter_bill
Upstate, SC, - Monday, November 21, 2005, at 00:38:06 (ZULU)

Had a couple posts disappear into the black hole. Hope this one is OK. Thanks Dan for your concern. If the blood thinners work someday maybe.... anyway. The quip just means unless your at your best don;t try old Jim. Anyway he don't mind the contraversy. He's dry like the rest of us Okies though.

Brogers
Monday, November 21, 2005, at 01:56:54 (ZULU)

On bedding HS stocks.

I have skim bedded maybe 20 over the last 10 years. Each one became more consistant. I noticed when I was preparing the actions that each gun with some rounds through it had wear marks along the long axis of the reciever just behind the recoil lug. Just my opinion but you dont get wear without friction and you dont get friction without movement.

With regards to 90 plus in OK county. Call volume dictates shift assignments and traffic enforcement is a low priority.

Going to bed

My first weekend off in a while and I get the flu!!!

JIM ANDERSON
OKC, OK, USA - Monday, November 21, 2005, at 02:07:08 (ZULU)

You guys go ahead and bed your HS stocked rifles... the two I have shoot too damn good to screw with.

medicjim
Monday, November 21, 2005, at 02:30:25 (ZULU)

Heck...Range Master is just not quite good enough. It lacks the punch I need; it falls short on cool points somehow. See, I've probably trained several thousand kids on ranges I've run. I have run ranges for BRM, Recoiless, TOW, Demo by the tons, The old Curry Range at Devens (you know what that is, and if you don't, well-you just don't know)), Tank tables, Aerial Gunnery Ranges, including those oven thingies for air-to-air crap, hellfire, 50 cals and other crew served, pistola (.45, 9mm, revolver), 360-degree range, House ranges, SMG ranges, live fire "lanes" both walking and vehicular...claymores, and more than a few CALFEXes--where the timing is everything between the arty, fast-movers and my little command post of a OH. I cannot imagine a fun time to be had with deadly shit where I have not signed my name on the blame-line for full responsibility, cocnieved training plans, and stepped out with execution.

Sheee-at, fellas:

I hereby crown myself "Boris(h) the Range God."

(not to be confused with range king, the lesser title)

There now, I feel soooo much better.

joe m
Monday, November 21, 2005, at 04:28:15 (ZULU)

Gents,

Jim, Hope you got the suppressor information OK. As I noted, when rifles are suppressed we get a ton of variables. I'll bet more baffle strikes are caused by poor bore axis/suppressor alignment than "yawing" ammo. Still, when it happens it ain't pretty.

Get to feeling better. Had the same deal a few weeks ago. Wife and I both. Just when things are improving it's time to go back to work.

Stick around Jim. You'll find that there is incredible depth and knowldge that is freely shared The demeanor displayed (most times) is that of gentlemen and professionals. The one thing that has never played, with this group, is the "mine is bigger than yours" approach. Yours may be bigger, but your about to get it stomped on...

HS Precision Stocks. Had them on several rifles. They shot OK. Still my vote goes for a properly bedded McMillan. The only HS stock I have left is on my Winchest Stealth .223. Since it shoots into .5", with most loads, I see no reason to change the stock or skim bed the puppy.

You may have heard this one: A middle aged wife tells her husband that she wants something to make her feel alive and young for her next birthday. She said "I want to feel like I'm doing zero to 200 in four seconds". When the big day arrived she opened the present to find a new bathroom scale. Services are pending for her hubsband.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Monday, November 21, 2005, at 04:34:42 (ZULU)

Sir Wes:

Youz right...Jim is probably a helluva good man.

But I resrve the right to be rubbed the wrong way and toss my sarcastic .02 in. That last post was supposed to be funny. After a ministry meeting and a re-read--it looks more like the boasting that gets slammed often around here. OK, so blast away...I can laugh along even though I'm the butt....and that is as good a term as any to drop it on.

And, my "conceived" looks more like connived. The latter term applies to getting ammo in this stingy post-Reagan era.

M24 rehab: Detailed re-work of the stock came out really well. Obtained a harris bipod. Bore is in fine shape, and the metal is stripped of the nasty blotched spray paint (most of the original coating is intact), and the thing is cleaner than new.

I sent a new ACU jacket to LCW so they can mix the paints and match the pattern. That will be the new color scheme. Duracoat is decent stuff. It works well on some of the SOPMOD systems so coated. The digital pattern is purely my idea of asthetics. Kewlness.

I'm probably going to paint the M4 the same too.

Work slow Doc; this phase may take me some time!

Back to the HS stock: This LOP-adj version has a fat grip, so we (I have help here) filed a few finger notches (making it a righty). OK, so I did this just to see if it could be done---and how well it would turn out once done.

It turned out great for those with "large" glove hands (me). This is the preponderance of us anyway by average. Now, this stock is fast becoming my favorite "feel." I will do this same mod to my SPR 1st Gen) and winnie stealth too. Basically, trace the fingers with a good grip, add in some contour lines towards the trigger for depth gauging (not too much off is needed here), then backfill with that Aviation purple crap (Hy-sol) to cap it. Strong stuff. Sand to suit. Use fine files, and work slowly:)) The Hy-sol starts out thin--and soaks in the laminated layers now exposed. We use it for composite blades--designed to do just this sort of work here too. As you work with it, it thickens relatively fast. As you "layer it" you can get a good contour built up that is almost finish quality if you are careful. Hy-sol is also expensive stuff...but it will ensure strength. And, a small packet will also fill any imperfections here and there. This thing looks brand new, and the "before" was a shambles. Holes and gouges all over it.

joe m
Monday, November 21, 2005, at 09:38:49 (ZULU)

Pistola Country

I took my 475 Linebaugh deer hunting this weekend, using a 420 grn. bullet. That round knocks them down right in there tracks, better than any 12 ga. slug i've ever seen do. Both kills were 90 yds. plus. Thinking about using it on elk next yr. Just FWIW.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Monday, November 21, 2005, at 11:28:01 (ZULU)

Wes said, "I'll bet more baffle strikes are caused by poor bore axis/suppressor alignment than 'yawing' ammo."

That's what Mike Brown, who owns Jet Suppressors, says. There are some people who cut barrel threads relative to the outside of the barrel, rather than lined up with the bore, and that can result in baffle strikes. I've heard and seen one, on a .300 WinMag built by a reputable military rifle builder, owned by a military unit. 'TWeren't pretty - and it wasn't from a subsonic round, so bullet stabilization was not an issue.

Worse, it was on a suppressor which Mike owned, so he was a little...peeved.

If you're having a barrel threaded for a can, it's a good idea to have it done by someone who knows how. G.A. Precision does, and they're fast. They turned around my last one the same day they got it.

Lindy
Undisclosed Secure Location, U.S.A. - Monday, November 21, 2005, at 12:28:18 (ZULU)

Major Mahon, U.S. Special Forces aka "Boris the Range God": The post was funny but there are two "o"s in "boorish". Get it right.

"Will no-one on this puny planet challenge me?"

CDC'
Monday, November 21, 2005, at 13:36:12 (ZULU)

Major Joe - New call-sign, effective now..."Boris".

medicjim
Monday, November 21, 2005, at 14:04:29 (ZULU)

Dan: I struggled with the Boris spelling (Badenov) vs. booris(h) for the effect of "being" this description. Natasha swayed the choice.

If I be Boris...then "first we kill the moose, then we kill the squirrel, eh Natasha?"

Though the Mrs might not dig me hanging with russian chicks by any name.

Or, for that matter, chicks in general of any nationality...

Thanksgiving is firming up. Plans include a sherpa, Mosul, old friends, turkish coffee and a stryker. I can catch the football the following morning on AFN too. Who was it that said war is hell?

Boris B
Monday, November 21, 2005, at 14:57:48 (ZULU)

I always prefered the title Marksmanship Prophet myself.

Gooch
Mt Idy, Arkinsaw, Huh? - Monday, November 21, 2005, at 17:50:13 (ZULU)

I've purchased three large Alice rucks which I plan to use for various rescue deployments (a sorta modular setup). I'd like to upgrade the straps and pads on the frame I have to optimize my load bearing capacity. I don't really want to enhance the ruck itself (cost x 3), just the padding and features tied to the frame.

Looking for BTDT advice. A vendor would also be helpful.

Roster email may be the preferred approach as I'm sure most on here 'have this t-shirt'...

OH, almost forgot... obligatory strutting theme as per CDC's superman quote...

...SNIFF....

"killing is easy, try putting em' back together...if you want a title worth bragging on, try MEDIC "

LOL...I slay me.

medicjim
Monday, November 21, 2005, at 19:18:11 (ZULU)

Just when I think things are getting boring, someone comes along and livens it up. Titles? I got hundreds of 'em. From Auel to Clancy to Milton. Fat lot of good they do me, none of them included on the Hooked on Phonics workbooks.....

Sarge, Howa is chambering the .300 WSM now. Now, I know it's not sexy, but you've seen how it shoots. Think about it, I am.....

Speaking of pussies, I had a discussion about that very thing with a former SEAL couple of weeks ago. A real one, verifiable. Killing everything that moves is sometimes difficult. Saving anything still breathing once you get on the ground is damn near impossible, sometimes.....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, November 21, 2005, at 20:18:26 (ZULU)

Damn it, I want a title too! Something other than 'that mean old bald some bitch'!

Selling snot and other coughed up and sneezed out bodily fluids, $10.00 per ton, you pay shipping. Plenty available.

MedicJim.....

Tactical Tailor Pack Upgrades.

http://216.105.57.73/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=14

High Speed Gear

Gene has a thing called the Alipad but his website is being updated and kinda fubar right now. The alipad is the shitznitz.

Time for another pill and nasal assault, Bolt out!

Bolt
NC, - Monday, November 21, 2005, at 22:21:30 (ZULU)

Ref: Large ALICE Pack Mods.

I've BTDT with Tactical Tailor. They did the "Full Montey" with my ALICE Large. Reinforcement of stress point, carry handle, replacement of cinch straps with Fastex buckles, new straps and new waist belt.

I used it for the 10 mile event at Storm Mountain last year. It is the most comfortable pack I own. I've put about 250 miles on it in competition and training. Lots of capacity, comfortable and tough as nails.

Jim, I'll be in northern NJ in January for a few days...dinner???

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, November 21, 2005, at 22:39:00 (ZULU)

Thanks to all who had a comment on the stock problem. I think that I will just save up for the mcmillan stock.I have a HS stock now and you can see two shiny marks just behind the recoil lug,must be moving the stock. Also is it worth the money to install a bigger recoil lug?

Jon Kujawa
princeton, mn, USA - Monday, November 21, 2005, at 23:05:15 (ZULU)

Charles (or anyone else who is a serious reader):

(fiction) books - any favourites that would be especially interesting to firearm afficinados? Always on the lookout for a good book. Read most/all of Tom Clancy, Richard Marcinko, Stephen Hunter, W.E.B. Griffin, Andy MacNab, Clive Cussler, Jerry Ahern.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, November 21, 2005, at 23:20:33 (ZULU)

Rod.....pick up a copy of 'INVASION' by Eric L. Harry.

Bolt
NC, - Monday, November 21, 2005, at 23:32:56 (ZULU)

Kevin - email inbound... short answer is "sounds good"

medicjim
Tuesday, November 22, 2005, at 02:24:01 (ZULU)

MedicJim: Hear! Hear! Medics are the true badasses. I honestly do not know how, after seeing those kids...how they sleep after that. Or if they even can. Yet, no BS--these folks just "do it." God bless them all. And I thank God they are nearby...sometimes it is the bad guys under their care, sometimes it is the innocent, and too often it is us. But you'd never tell a wit of difference in how they do their job regardless of the humanity lying under their care...amazing folks through and through. But you knew that:))

Also have seen and played with similar mods Kevin speaks of. I agree, it is the best kit going once modified. As a young buck and staff I did not have enough jack to go there myself---but I did befriend the riggers, who did similar mods to my specs. I've since tried everything from Lowe mountains to molles--and nuthin' beat the alice mod. I've got some silly looking pics at the house with that rig--and to see it now makes ya wonder just what the hell i was carrying. My knees hurt just lookin' at it now, but I only remember how comfy it was...

JR: If'n ya pull the barrel for a new lug, may as well talk to George at GA for some minor tweakin.'

I dunno if titles matter much these days...I can impress my self all to hell just responding to an alarm clock each morning.

boris the joe
Tuesday, November 22, 2005, at 11:15:06 (ZULU)

Rod - you might try John Weisman. He co-authored some of Marcinko's books. He writes counter-terrorism thrillers, and is pretty good at it.

Lindy
Undisclosed Secure Location, U.S.A. - Tuesday, November 22, 2005, at 13:09:56 (ZULU)

Well Boris, that pretty much deflated my entire rant. I sure hope this mutual respect and professionalism thing isn't contagious.

Note - I don't really believe medic is all that tough a job (current scope is too limited)....I think it should be the most rigorous program in the military, on a par with SF. Many more lives would be saved if we pushed more invasive skills to the front lines.

medicjim
Tuesday, November 22, 2005, at 13:39:47 (ZULU)

I have a question If you had to go on a sniper mission and you were a one man team do you think it would be better to get a high magnification scope and not carry a spotting scope so you would save weight over all or would it be better to go with a 10x scope and carry the spotting scope yourself?

Thanks Jeremy

Jeremy VanSchoonhoven
Tuesday, November 22, 2005, at 16:59:34 (ZULU)

Gents, just popping in here before the holiday rush to wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving. Gratitude: order of the day. Thanks to all those who are serving and helping to keep us safe. We know you are doing a great thing. I myself am thanking the good Lord for many things this year.

Don't listen to Joe, I read his post....I'm not a saint or even a great person sometimes. And I am crankier than most retired people I know, and I still curse too much. Joe on the other hand is personable and at times exuberant. His son Blake is a really neat kid and it's no trouble hanging out with him, it's like traveling back in a time machine! The only hard part is trying to avoid too much "you know, when I was your age....."!! I got away after only two or three I think. And the hunting is good.

With eight hunters we took two does for the pot, hopefully more to come next weekend. Joe, Blake didn't shoot one but he got some shooting, and it wasn't for lack of opportunity. We had a perfect chance opening morning but I selected our spot wrong. He did have a chance at the big buck and also at a doe on Sunday. Also, the west neighbors weren't hunting so most of the action was on the west side.

Bill Rogers....damn good to see ya.

I see Jim humbled quite quickly. I wouldn't cross any of the people here......no matter where you go, there is ALWAYS someone better/smarter/faster than you. A good lesson to remember.

Bravo.....email enroute, no attachments!

Back to lurk mode....work beckons and lots of things to do before Turkey day. Take good care hawgs.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Tuesday, November 22, 2005, at 18:50:02 (ZULU)

I've been using the ALICE medium for about, well, a loooong time. It's been good, and it carries about all I need, but it's not very convenient to get into at times. I have tried the Blackhawk medium assault pack, and it's very convenient, but it doesn't haul everything I need. Before the last evolution up in Grandfield, I got the Camelbak H.U.M.P. Now, finally, everything I need to carry and easy to get to everything. I can put anything I need in it for a real 3-day foray, including mummy bag and ammo. You might want to check it out. Jeremy....IMHO, anything over 10x gives me just too much mirage, and I've never had any problem hitting anything out to 1k with the 10x Loopy. Well, I've had problems, but eventually hit it; what I meant to say was that I had no problems SEEING something to hit. And, it's still enuff mag to see a rudimentary mirage for wind calling, I can usually wing it enuff to tag the target. And, with the Camelbak, you can stuff yer spotting scope in a carry bag and lash it to the MOLLE loop attachment point (it's got a slew of the) and have the best of both worlds.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, November 22, 2005, at 19:50:59 (ZULU)

Jeremy: the weight difference between a 10-power and a higher power scope isn't enough to matter. But on a one-man opp, I'd carry my standard rifle scope, which goes to 17 power, and a good pair of about 10 power binoculars - I have a pair of compact Nikons. The binos are much more generally useful than a spotting scope, and binocular vision can be a great asset in finding targets which are difficult to see. Just my opinion.

Lindy
Undisclosed Secure Location, U.S.A. - Tuesday, November 22, 2005, at 20:08:41 (ZULU)

Charles - USAR (as in Urban Search and Rescue) is based on a two week deployment. I've been the chief logistics dude for larger, better equipped teams than my current assignment <g>...I know better than to count on support. The large ALICE isn't big enough. I have a MOLLE patrol pack riding piggy back on my current setup and it still isn't enough.

I have an Eagle IIIA pack that I use for matches... I agree with you on the utility of this sort of pack for 1-3 day active use.

medicjim
Tuesday, November 22, 2005, at 20:23:39 (ZULU)

OK group .300WSM on order, sorry Chuck went with the Remmy! NOW who has a good load for the 165 GameKing and the 175 MatchKing?? Hodgden recommends a slower burning powder. I have some H380 on hand as well as a couple different V V powders. Varget looks like a no go for this round.

Suggestions???

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Tuesday, November 22, 2005, at 21:12:41 (ZULU)

I really like the Kifaru packs for real world use. I gave away my slightly mod'd ALICE while I was in Iraq, mainly because I didn't want to carry it back to CONUS, and it was going to a good new home. I use a ZULU and it hauls all I need. Add some side pockets and such with PALS webbing and you can get really overloaded really fast. Travel light and freeze at night is the only way you can do light infantry ops unless you start talking about snow on the ground, and that's a whole different story. You have a log train to haul your sustainment gear, so you can remain an effective fighter. You're pretty useless as a fighter while hauling your sustainment load, and the first time you dump your stuff to go kill hadji, it's gone, the natives will pick it over unless you leave a guard element, which has problems all it's own.

Sarge, try N160 in the WSM.

One man team, carry rifle and binos. Spotting scope is for the spotter to watch you shoot and adjust accordingly, which isn't pertinent to your situation. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Tuesday, November 22, 2005, at 22:07:25 (ZULU)

Boris the joe,

Your trip sounds quite interesting. Are you driving or riding? The first part is so ugly it should drive like a dream! Almost as ugly as the old dollar thirty and I loved her with a passion. The last part could get hairy!

Keep your tail feathers down and WY6. Oh yeah, the repairs should be finished this week.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The crisp Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, November 22, 2005, at 23:25:40 (ZULU)

Titles? The one's I've been assigned typically were deserved, and not intended for tender ears. They generally followed periods in which I required cranial-rectal-separation surgery. Gotta love the egalitarian nature of America.

Changing a large organization by getting it's attention? There's an old saw, something along the lines of "It is always possible to get the attention of the elephant. But you need to make sure you really, REALLY want it's attention".

Happy holidays to everyone, and a special thanks to those of you serving overseas!

Duman

Duman
Tuesday, November 22, 2005, at 23:55:35 (ZULU)

+1 on what medicjim says is needed for deployments with USAR's, DMAT's, etc.. You can't count on shit catching up to your AO and if you don't have everything you need with you for the full stay, you may be screwed. I even packed 3 days of meals.

Jim, I had good success with Gregory Windriver backpacks. Still have it. Damn comfortable and adjustable to the hilt. You can add pouches for stuff you need to get to quickly. Here's some links. There's one on EBAY right now for $25 but the seller is a newbie without a rating.

http://www.thebackpacker.com/gear/backpacks/gregory_wind_river.php

http://search.ebay.com/gregory-backpack_W0QQcatrefZC6QQcoactionZcompareQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfromZR10QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQfstypeZ1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZQ2d1QQsaprchiZQQsaprcloZQQssPageNameZRC0023

Back to the recliner, Bolt out!

Bolt
NC, - Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 00:39:37 (ZULU)

Gents,

Test message. Had one disappear into space last night and lost connectivity to Sniper Country. Could not get it back until this morning. Was there a site burp or should I start worrying about "government intevention"?

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 01:50:59 (ZULU)

Wes: I noticed an inability to get to the site, but I failed to pay attention to when. If you look at the message times, there were almost 9 hours, from medicjim's comment at 0224Z, until the next one at 1115Z, which seems like an awfully long time, so it's not unreasonable to suppose that there may have been a problem.

Lindy
Undisclosed Secure Location, U.S.A. - Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 02:23:51 (ZULU)

JR- $1 of Acraglass to eliminate the action movement in the stock is probably the better first step.

Range moguls- back in the old days (sorry guys) I ran into a large number of guys who went to S&W Academy who put on a sheet and carried large blue tablets into the class room because they had THE ONE TRUE WAY. Wasn't till I met the guys from S&W that I realized that it wasn't the official S&W attitude but the dipsticks that attended.

Ken- according to the current Pres of the Virginia IBS Vern Harrison is "the real deal". So at least we know he can shoot from a bench. He doesn't have a business license, zoning variances, permits etc. and none of the local police agencies have heard of the guy. Maybe Sinister or Master Rick could verify his claims in re the "sniper stuff".

WR Moore
Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 02:30:32 (ZULU)

Gents,

Just lost another post. Hope this gets through. Will reappear in a couple days.

For now, have a happy Thanksgiving.

Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 02:34:55 (ZULU)

Wes, All -

My core ethernet switch decided to get a case of the ass. When you ask equipment to run 7x24x365 - sooner or later it will start to act up.

Over the past several days, it would just sort of stop allowing connections in from the outside. We could see out, but not everyone could get in from the outside to snipercountry, etc. I replaced that switch late yesterday evening, around 22:00 EST....

Anyhow -- hopefully all's better'er now....

Other topic - also non sniping - Have any of youn'z taken a look @ that .50 Beowulf round/AR upper kit? That beast looks like it'd be great for house calls that our troops are making these days - kinda like being shot with an engine block.

Take care, God Bless, and Take a moment to give Thanks for our Great Nation and the troops & troopers that help keep it that way.

Semper Fi,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, USofA Under God, Hosted by Bush - Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 03:27:56 (ZULU)

JR doesn't need lessons from any of us on getting HS stocks to shoot. Jk may. A quick skim with Devcon would be good for what ails him.

Is anyone losing roster-mail messages? I just bounced an email to Duman.

CDC'
Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 04:06:30 (ZULU)

Ken, re: 50 Beowulf. My son (active duty AirForce...819 RedHorse) has one.... sorta like a +P 45-70... 350 gr. at 1700 and 400 gr. at 1500. It do come back a bit, but it'll keep 'em under 2" at 100 yd easy...haven't handloaded for it yet, but the bullets for the 50 AE and 500 S&W should workee good. Brass is a bit spendy, but so is the 458 SOCOM. I watched a guy at a local match put the Beowulf upper on his M16 lower and shoot off a mag full auto (like 7 rounds)... interesting but not real effective...raised one hell of a dust cloud.

I'd say it's real useful under 200 yds, and a whole lot more effective against semi-hard cover (like auto bodies and walls) than the 223... and maybe real useful with subsonic 500grs and a suppressor?

It seems that the AR platform has been adopted to most anything....the small block Chevy of the gunworld. Cobb Mfg. is even making 'em in 338 Lapua and 30-06 (and a manually operated bolt gun with a 10-round detachable magazine in 50 BMG). Uses an interchangable magwell for different length ctgs.

Same son has an AR in 243 WSSM...24" barrel puts out factory ballistic tip 55 grainers at a chrono'd 4170 FPS and 100 gr at 3150. Dunno how long the barrel will last, but its certainly flat, and under one MOA.

Steve
Butte, MT, USA - Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 04:27:36 (ZULU)

I'll have to agree with Medicjim on the pack thing. I forgot to mention that I put a Blackhawk super-wazoo buttpack on the bottom of my ALICE and/or Camelbak HUMP for extra storage, as the old ALICE had the clip webbing on the bottom, and the CB has the MOLLE loops, both will hold it. Now, back in the PJ days, a hunnert pounds of gear was not unheard of, but those days are looooong over. If I need that much stuff, and i surely do out at Big Bend, I've discovered that my pickup truck fills the bill nicely. Especially the firepit, coffee pot, firewood, dutch oven, etc etc.

And I agree with Lindy about the binos vs. spotting scope. I'm just used to humping around the scope, and I keep a pair of binos in my pack anyway.

Sarge....I'm hurt. Just when I thought we were getting real close, you go and buy a Remmy. Humph. Harumph. Lump of coal in your sticking this Christmas, boyo.....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 05:13:20 (ZULU)

Some blokes named Pete, Roger, John and Keith tell me that Boris was a spider...

Packing: Chow is the hard thing. It goes hand in with water too. Availability and ability to scour it makes the decisions for you at times. 3 days of food can be nine, depending on how you count calories.

Kevin, you know something of sub-1000 per day for months on end, eh?

I tried to allow for 14 days worth of misery-chow. This was possible thru dehydrated stuff and calling energy replacement therapy "a meal." Now, if resupply came or the op ended as planned--it was moot. But the stuff was there if needed, and it sometimes was. Once on an E&E (surprise!) I had two buds eating off my stash for about 100 miles of mountain trails. Back then, I thought that was fun...geez. But the badguys were infantry backed up with teams who had access to our plan. The caches were places to be captured, so resupply was out. All that nasty calorie count came in handy. Forage was there, but thin--and water was a real problem. The team guys knew to deny the springs. But even then, there is water to be had. FWIW, drinking from any source world-wide only got me sick once, and that was Ranger school where i let some numbnut take responsibility for purifying my water--which he apparently "dreamed" he did. Never assume safety of water...always blast it with everything you got at your disposal.

But if you do not put in your own caches known only to you---try to max out calories in the ruck for mission duration or long enough to get past the first unsuccessful resupply. It takes creativity and water to do this best.

Boris it is
Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 08:31:54 (ZULU)

WR and Ken....

I can't vouch for Vern's military service but he is a real nice guy and one hell of an FClass shooter. He has given me some excellent advice over the past serveral years.

11 more hours til 4 days off, Bolt out!

Bolt
NC, - Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 10:48:24 (ZULU)

The goddamn Democrats are trying to intentionally lose this easily winnable war in order to politically damage the Repubicans. American Conservatives are fighting a three-front war. Our enemies are the American media, the Democrats and our external enemies. Having come through the Democrats siding with our enemies during the Cold War, we're used to it.

I am not questioning their patriotism. That's like questioning a hooker's virtue. There is no question.

"Treason" is an under-used word.

Max Boot wrote: "Abu Musab Zarqawi may be losing on the Arab street (his own family has disowned him), but he's winning on Main Street. And, as the Vietnam War showed, defeatism on the home front can become self-fulfilling."

Click my name.

CDC'
Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 14:34:40 (ZULU)

CDC',

The email addy I use to login to SCDR is blocked, since the volume of 'opportunities from Nigeria' were overwhelming my system. I'll get with Ken to change it so it won't bounce.

Duman

Duman
Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 15:39:55 (ZULU)

SHOT SHOW

Who amongst you is going? I'm tentative, though I'd like to meet some more people from the roaster.

Duman

Duman
Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 16:17:35 (ZULU)

Perusing the PX, came across the FN Herstal - Five-Seven USG, 5.7x28mm. I'm not familiar with this round. Anyone here have experience with it?

Duman
Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 16:57:39 (ZULU)

Doc: I'll be logging a few hours. I need twenty more for a badge upgrade. No T/Os or landings--yet. Maybe next time. The approach is "advanced" flying, I hear told...should make for a kodak moment or ten.

Been catching some review of the 5.7mm--it is a speedy little number that drills through sapi and ACH's like a hot knife in butter. That's the talk at any rate; I was stuck here and not "there". Methinks it will do the same on flesh---and the conventional wisdom is stable penetration is best served with heavier medicine. I just dunno. But then, 100 rounds of self protection on tap makes up for all kinds of ills in a survival mode with the odd-looking subgun. Pistol version does not seem to have significantly less barrel (if at all)---so maybe the boolit will workie the same in either. It strikes me as a niche solution for those who would need more than a M9 sidearm. I would not buy one. I want to put great big gaping holes in my targets---regardless of composition, in a situation where the sidearm is employed. May eventually lean that way with riffles, too--but the MK262 thing seems to work for those who ask something from it. Enough BTDT praise to satisfy me that the 6.8 has less traction now within certain circles.

Boris
Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 18:15:51 (ZULU)

DUMAN WROTE: "Changing a large organization by getting it's attention? There's an old saw, something along the lines of "It is always possible to get the attention of the elephant. But you need to make sure you really, REALLY want it's attention".

EXACTLY !!!!

Hey man ... me and the entire AmericanSnipers.org crew will be at SHOT. NSSF/SHOT comped us the booth again this year.

Booth # 478 in LE.

brian k. sain
Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 22:46:17 (ZULU)

5.7x28 has been around for about 10 years now, been following it for that time. Was used in the Peru embassy take down, supposedly. You're looking at 22 Magnum ballistics, but it has a sharp point and aluminum core, which allows it to defeat Kevlar or other soft armour rather easily. Then again, so will a 2315 Easton from a compound bow or a knife or icepick for that matter. Since it has a rigid core and comparitively low velocity, you will get zero fragmentation and a wound track similar to 22LR.

Not going to get through a SAPI, no way no how. Maybe a 50rd burst might sneak a couple rds through but we'll all agree that's a gross overmatch, not so? S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 22:53:17 (ZULU)

Seems like I recall a (spy thriller) movie by the name of "True Lies" starring Arnold Schwarznegger (now the "Governator") and Jamie Lee Curtis who eventually came to be known as "Boris...and Doris."

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 00:44:34 (ZULU)

try this one CDC'

I got a kick out of this story.

Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) students (from Cambridge, Mass. of all places) defeated West Point in a recent pistol match, and earlier this year defeated the Coast Guard Academy...

http://mitathletics.collegesports.com/sports/c-pistol/recaps/112105aaa.html

Chalk one up for the geeks!

Now I'm not trying to bash any of the academies or the weapons training they get, but I do think this is funny.

They're all American, except for one each from Canada, Germany, South Africa, South Korea and India.

Also, their coach, a former Providence RI firefighter, "won his first national championship in 1995 in the .45 event at Camp Perry, Ohio. Since 1992, he has set 35 individual and team national records. During the 1995-96 season, Hart was named the National Rifle Association's "Top Gun" in outdoor shooting." That helps, I'm sure.

Most of them seem to be from California, New York, or Massachusetts, states with heavy gun control.

Jim B.
Glendale, AZ., you cant win the hearts and minds of the heartless and mindless. - Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 01:30:03 (ZULU)

re: 5.7x28

Local police agency using them in FN as "trunk gun" for patrol officers. Cute looking fired brass. Careful you don't let your support hand slip over the muzzle, it's not that far away.

Tactical guys use AR15 pattern or heavier here.

If you need something compact, seems like a better choice than 9mmx19 sub gun. Terminal ballistics would likely be light, but that armor-punching capability makes up for other sins.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 01:58:07 (ZULU)

Duman said "Who amongst you is going?"

I have no idea. And I won't offer you a guarentee on a dry place to bunk, if it works out for you this year. Or a dish I've come to get rather good at, London broil (very tender, done right, not like it was in London LOL!). Heck, I'll even run down the road here and pick up some beer. Yeah, you get store bought beer :-(

Just don't stop by and talk with InSain. You wouldn't BELIEVE the advice he gave me last year!

One of the Patrons has been going well above and beyond in what makes a Patron a Patron. Giving great advice. Just wanted to give a public thank-you, as a show of appreciation, although the appreciation is well greater than the thank-you.

For those of you who can, check out the Cobert Report. That fellow can even make a day like today less bothersome.

And a question for Mike and Jim, our resident medicine men..... I'm just past what Mike is currently going through. So what's the SOP to get rib muscles to stop hurting from coughing so much? Oh, and Mike, the reason nobody took you up on your sales offer is because I undercut your price by $5 per ton, and shipped by metric ton as well. More goop, less price.

And I can't seem to make the archive search work. Would someone who actually knows what they're doing mind finding that posting pinacle of humor on the Mall Ninja and forwarding it to me? If memory serves, it was (Patron) Pablito that put that story out.

Bravo
Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 02:08:28 (ZULU)

Bolt- I missed Butner. @#$%%&&! radiator on the road tractor started wizzing coolant on the road. $383.25 later, I'm putting the thing back together.

Media- there's a 'Nam era quote by some Zoomie Col- "The Communists are not our enemy, they are our adversaries. Our enemies are the newpapers, television and our politicians." or words to that effect.

WR Moore
Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 02:48:32 (ZULU)

Jim B: Re. MIT vs. Mil.Academies. In my service as an NRA Personal Protection/Pistol Instructor and Federal Firearms Instructor, one thing I can vouch for...its easier to teach someone to shoot who has never shot (mostly women) than to teach someone to shoot that's been shooting (the wrong way) for a long time (mostly men). I don't know how many "my uncle taught me to shoot this way" folks there are in the Academies vs. MIT, but I'm thinking this may have something to do with it? 2c.worth and probably not worth that much.

In either case, coaching has a lot to do with it...and motivation. I do find that the "natural Resource Management Agencies" folk have better than a rudimentary background in firearms compared to the average L.E. student...for better or for worse, our training isn't really training, but it sufficies if the students at least aren't scared of firearms to begin with... Maybe some of the shooting school instructors and high-end Military Instructors (there is no Range God but the Range God...Boris) have similar experiences??

Steve
Butte, MT, USA - Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 05:19:22 (ZULU)

Mall Ninja-if someone finds that please repost it for the enjoyment of all.

Indiansinger-I greatly admire your personal fitness program but will not try it myself. A good man knows his limitations, and you only gotta slip on the cowpies once:))))

Bolt- Vern's name came up in connection with a website-central virginia tactical. Patron Bravo has given me an concise way to express the issue. The guy that set the website up makes the whole project reek of mall ninja. We'll let it go at that.

WR Moore
Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 05:50:49 (ZULU)

Hawgs,

Happy Thanksgiving to all and especially to those out there in harms way. May you all stay safe, healthy, and happy.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 13:55:51 (ZULU)

Happy Thanksgiving my friends!

To those of you overseas, best wishes, and stay safe!

God Bless

Now pass me the ibuprofen.

Bravo
Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 14:29:05 (ZULU)

OK DANG IT!!..................

WHO HID MY PRIMER POCKET UNIFORMER?????? This ain't funny, things cost too much for people to being playing games with it......I expect whoever took it to place it gently back on the bench where I think I left it and no harm will come to you.....

Bravo....

My personal Rx for sore rib muscles is stretching and tylenol. Whenever you cough you constrict the muskles just like doing curls and stuff like that. After I cough for a couple of hours I kinda hang from a door header for a few minutes to stretch the torso out. I havent' figured out how to shove the hemroids back up there though. Thought about using a 12ga. shotgun jag with a patch of Montana Extreme on it.

Hocker shooting contest...

For everyone with headcolds and other type problems I propose a hocker shooting contest. Send in your best distance (signed by a witness) by the end of the month. Warning, I shot one 15'4" this morning.

WR.....

Sorry you had vehicular rangus interuptus. We received the 2006 Butner schedule in the mail this week. There are 20 shooting weekends including 10 Palma/F-class and 10 XTC matches. The schedule isn't up on the website yet, they're kinda slow about updating it. I may start shooting XTC just to see if I can shoot off-hand. The last time I shot offhand I even im-bare-assed myself. Good thing nobody else was at the range that day. I've never been able to hold steady. I figger there's always something to rest a rifle on or against so I never really practiced off-hand. We have some reduced course highpower matches at a local range one saturday a month. I may give it a try.

Mall Ninja links.......

http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-289.html

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-78837.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2005-01%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=mall+ninja&btnG=Search

Damn, I think I actually want to be one........!

5.7x28.......

http://fivesevenforum.com/forums/index.php?referrerid=94

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=FN+Herstal+-+Five-Seven+USG%2c+5.7x28mm&fr=ieas-dns

Hmmmmm, ever look at the 17 hornet? That pointy headed little screamer will do bad things to what it penetrates, a lot cheaper!

Next door neighbor kid....

Well he's not a kid anymore. Came back from the sandbox and took a little of the Boltster's advice and went on a 30 stint with Blackwater. He friggin loved it and is going back for a 60 day stint first of the year. It's a shame you need prior military or LEO service for Blackwater. Sounds like a good ticket.

Finally....

HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO THE CONUS AND OVERSEAS HAWGS!!!!!!!!

Time to get the turkey frier out and oil down the bird, Bolt out!!!

Bolt
Snot Central...., NC, - Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 15:03:07 (ZULU)

Happy Thanksgiving....

Andy knocked down another deer this morning.

His mother told me we'll need to buy another freezer.

I pursuaded him to stay home the rest of the day and give it a break for a while. He was ready to head right back out.

He's like that. ;-)

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 16:02:53 (ZULU)

Happy Turkey day to you all. I hope everyone stays safe and sound.

Kevin: Deer, I thought they where an urban legend. There are none around here.

JLU

Joe Udelhofen
Oconomowoc, WI, USA - Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 18:35:31 (ZULU)

Greetings and Happy Thanksgiving to you all.....

Let's all have a nice thought and prayer for those who are away, and remember that they are making it possible for all of us to enjoy the holiday season. You all rock.

Morgue- Stay sharp over there bro. I'll have an extra helping of bird and brew for you today....

Joe S.- Hope your Mom is doing better. If you need anything, let me know. I'll be back @ the office after the 30th....

cmoore.....

out...

cmoore
Dago, Kali, USA - Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 19:37:52 (ZULU)

Deer hunting...come to NJ, we have big deer all over the darn place. I could take one with a bowie knife in the backyard if I wanted to....they are that tame.

Sore ribs -..... I won't bring tylenol in the house. I use Ibuprophen for muscle aches and aspirin for headaches...the ibuprophen has anti-inflammatory, muscle relaxing and analgesic properties.

medicjim
Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 20:00:17 (ZULU)

http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/THEWRONGARMY.HTML

Stolen from another site.

Regards,

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Woodridge, New Joisey, US of A - Thursday, November 24, 2005, at 22:28:08 (ZULU)

Jim.............

You're right about the Tylenol versus Ibuprofin and aspirin, but alas my digestive system doesn't like aspirin. I've even tried Ascriptin with no luck. I envy those of you that can take aspirin, BC powders and stuff like that. The only thing I can stand is the 10mg maintenance aspirin that is coated.

Turkey..........

Man I nailed the fried turkey this year. Most perfect one that I have fried in a long time. Nothing but bones and tail left.

Time for desert, Bolt fat happy and out!

Bolt
NC, - Friday, November 25, 2005, at 00:52:53 (ZULU)

Medicjim wrote:

Deer hunting...come to NJ, we have big deer all over the darn place. I could take one with a bowie knife in the backyard if I wanted to....they are that tame.

I have this twisted image that's been running thru my mind for a while about extreme moose hunting.

You lie in concealment until a moose wanders by, then jump on his back, hold onto his neck and shoot him in the brain thru the ear with a .22 pistol. Now *that* would be exciting :-) Talk about your fair chase...

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, November 25, 2005, at 01:47:23 (ZULU)

Rod,

I think every man worth his salt has to accumulate a few stories of daring deeds...trips to the brink, if you will.

I'm 39 and I figure I have used up a lifetime's worth of good luck just surviving this long (It had to be luck, as I'm quite certain intelligence and skill can be ruled out)... If you feel the hankerin' for just one more really good one, have fun and good luck with the moose. That'll be one hell of a tale .... if you live to tell it.

Let's hope the world never becomes so civilized that we end our lives at a ripe old age, with not a single good story in our 'book'.

Have a happy and joyous Thanksgiving everyone ...

'He tan e epi tas

medicjim
Friday, November 25, 2005, at 03:14:15 (ZULU)

Debkafile reports that the Marines are in combat with Syrian forces in Syria. I don't trust this report but we can hope. Click my name.

CDC'
Friday, November 25, 2005, at 05:41:47 (ZULU)

Gents,

Systems back on line after being down for a day or two. Even phones were not working. Weird.

A belated Happy Thankgiving to all Roster Hawgs and Hawgettes(Larry/Sharon).

Had Grand Kids and family over. Was a great experience. Guys had Xmas lights up by days end...wife is pushing it a bit, but by god we are the first in the neighborhood. Guess the rest can keep up with us Jones'.

A special thanks and prayers for our deployed troops.

Will expound more on this later, but got a message from our DOC diversity crew. The take was we should remember the poor downtrodden Native Americans, make amends and feel guilty for what "we" had done. I've got a great reply written, but can't use our internal computer system to make a reply. Although Ms. Sadam-XXXX could use it to put out that clap trap...better sign off...feel a rant coming one.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Friday, November 25, 2005, at 06:02:30 (ZULU)

Happy Thanksgiving to all Hawgs and Dawgs, and especially to all the troops deployed over-seas away from family.

CDC,

US has been lighting up people across the Syrian border for about a year and a hafl, ever since that SECDEF Rumsfeld told is that we are clear to engage insurgent forces operating right on the other side of the border. I'll tell ya, Al Qaim and Husayba are the new Fallujah. The ground pounders are not short of work in that area. Been htat way since the rats scurried out of Fallujah when we took it down.

Later

Kush out here

kush
Oki, - Friday, November 25, 2005, at 11:29:53 (ZULU)

Been up since 03:30.....

and now I'm getting bored shitless. The lovely Doughlady had to be into work at 05:00 so as usual I wake up about the time the shower comes on. From a couple of weeks ago through Christmas she is like a coon dog that runs until they can't run no more. She's been in retail forever, manager of the bakery at a local Sam's club, and hence this time of year she is busy as a one armed wall paper hanger. 10-18 hours days are regular, in at 05:00 and home whenever she gets here.

MORNING RAMBLINGS....

Storing sealed ammo versus unsealed ammo....

Recently I have been purchasing rainy day military ammo like LR118 for storage and this morning I axed myself why. I've got at least 3k pieces of brass and bollits that could be loaded and put in ammo cans. A bud of mine that I like to argue with says that it's not good to store unsealed ammo for long term. What say you?

Sniper Country archives.....

Man what a hoot. I went into the archives and looked at all the posts I made years ago. It's a wonder I didn't get run off the site. It's amazing how much I've learned over the last 7 or so years. Still a lot left to learn.

Bruce Robinson......

I started thinking about Bruce last night. Even though its only been a little over a year since he passed, I didn't really get sad. Instead I remembered all the good times and information we all shared. Don't forget to raise a glass in his honor at New Years.

Starlight Case foam cutting......

I've laid out the case with all the junk at least a dozen times and still haven't decided which is the best layout. I'm ready just to start hacking on the foam and hoping for the best. Has anyone actually cut foam for 2 rifles in a case? That will be one heavy piece of stuff to haul around.

Scopes......

My beloved Leupold is just about to price themselves out of the market. I'm about ready to start looking around. I know, I know, you get what you pay for but damn there has got to be something else on the market that will hold up to activities that may be less thanmilitary use. Burris XTR and other ones are looking better and better. May consider them as backups for the Loopies.

AR's and AK's.....

Why the hell is it that these things are like an addiction and you just keep buying them and buying them? How many AR's and AK's does a normal person really need?

Cholesterol.....

Completely off the subject but cholesterol medicine sucks, just plain sucks. Can't find any of the Rx that don't make my legs and feet hurt. The damn quack that I'm dealing with says that I need to take this stuff for the rest of my life, discounting possible liver damage, etc. I'm beginning to think he's full of shit. I listened to a doc the other day that was talking about why you shouldn't screw with cholesterol because it is a carrier and instigator for normal hormone production. Who knows.....

Grandson..

My little buddy was over yesterday. He is now eat up with heavy construction machinery. Gee, wonder who got him started on that? Everytime he comes over I start wondering how the hell the kid is going to grow up in this screwed up world. I even worry that by the time he actually can shoot and hunt, there won't be any places left. I wish I could afford a couple hundred acres to preserve just for him. He's growing up fast and doesn't spend as much time over here as he used to. His mom has a new boyfriend and even though he seems to be a decent kid (no earrings or other metal shit penetrating his face, no baggy assed homeboy pants) I still worry.

That is all. Time to go to the shop and prep some more of this years fired brass. Bolt out!

Bolt
NC, - Friday, November 25, 2005, at 11:39:23 (ZULU)

Two good landing later and all is well. It was a white knuckle ride in and out though. Freakin' cool profile! I'm going to ask more abou that NOE stuff, per tactics, tomorrow. It may well be just to surprise the assclowns in town, whereas a straight-in would provide at least a little prep-time for a heavy gun. I dunno, but it sure was fun! The thing, by way of controls, was a sky pig. Reminded me of Hueys in response-time. Little birds sure are sports cars in comparison. I suppose if I knew to spin the trim wheels, it would have been a tad lighter feel---but a little left side pressure wasn't too bad for the first hour (but kicked my ass after that). Heheh. And I prefer the Nav-package on the 58D, much easier to see and read.

Thanksgiving in Marez...great time. I met some "recipients" of the recycled gear---it was nice to see it being used for it's intended purpose, and to meet the grateful young'uns better equipped for the few measley hours I put in to this stuff.

That is a thanksgiving to remember...

Does anyone here personally know a B4-qual shooter who is under-equipped? Time to start thinking where the M24 goes to next (shortly after I try it here or there). I can find one easy enough--but figured I'd look for a friend/ family type from youz guys first.

Boris with no Doris
Friday, November 25, 2005, at 12:20:38 (ZULU)

Bolt,

The only problem I ever had with old unsealed ammo was with a box of .45acp. I picked it up at a gun show and only about half the stuff went off. I guessed that it was at least fifty years old and had no idea how it had been stored. Some of my early .22-250 handloads are around twenty years old and still work just fine on varmints. They are stored in a .50 cal. ammo can and aren't sealed. You might "borrow" some of Doughlady's fingernail polish and do a seal job on your ammo. Just make sure the color you use doesn't clash with what you're wearing! ;o)

My Starlight case is set up for a Remmy .308VS and a Salvage .223 varmint gun. I learned real fast why they have wheels on them.

Boris w/o Doris,

Congrats on the good landings. If the machine was re-usable after the landing it was actually a great landing. The trim wheels become second nature after a little while. I can only imagine the arrival and departure profiles. I'll bet a Disney World E-ticket ride would be boring in comparison.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The frigid (14*F) Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, November 25, 2005, at 13:02:17 (ZULU)

Mike, I received some "stored" ammo back (a court order and a couple of jabs about not following such) from the whore who chose to store it for me. You know the story.

Some of it was still fine within paramters. Some of it sucked. After making sure it wasn't purposefully sabotaged, I went through it all just to get rid of it.

Some even squibbed on me, after a simple 4 years or so and even the "good" stuff was a little short in expected velocity.

My expectation is that it was stored in only the very worst / most irresponsible way and places.

I've determined, since a specific velocity is important to me, it'd be better to store components and assemble when needed. Any deviation required in charge weight due to powder degredation could be taken into account at that time.

For cached ammo, I'm depending on the relatively stable and low temps. My belief is that if I need it, 20 or even 50 fps less velocity is the least of my worries.

Does that help?

BTW, when you said you'd gone through the archives for the last 7 years, I thought "but you haven't been here that long". I recall when you got here. Time sure flies, I wouldn't have guessed it was that long LOL! - Thanks for the rib muscle info!

Cholesterol: my fourth semester undergrad organics prof once stated that in his opinion, we'd figure out later that this whole good cholesterol / bad cholesterol thing was a fad. You're right. "Bad" cholesterol is a precursor to such molecules as testosterone.

Sir Wes, Native Americans have been completely hosed throughout the history of this country. What do I feel anyone owes me, or that I deserve? Human respect. Of course, if the state governments opted to keep their noses out of reservation business, that would be just fine with me. Why should they be any different though, as it seems all levels of government demand their extortion money, whether they have that authority or not.

Revrund Jim, I appreciate the help too! Been doing ibus, and plenty of 'em. Around here, the deer aren't so plentiful. Still plenty enough to cause vehicular accidents a few times a week though. The plentiful ones are the antelope. I've got a heard of 20 that one could kill with a rock or bow. They typically won't let you get closer than about 10 feet, so no knives.

Bravo
Friday, November 25, 2005, at 19:03:47 (ZULU)

Off-topic query:

Glock (17) Tactical Stock Mount:

http://www.tdi-arms.com/store.php?pid=256

(Online Store // Butt Stocks // GLR17 - Glock 17 Tactical Stock Mount)

http://www.gunaccessories.com/GlockAccessories/TacticalStock&Grip/index.asp

(In non-US jurisdictions an accessory stock for a pistol typically has no special legal status associated with it).

(US jurisdiction - If you own a Glock handgun and you are about to buy this product, your handgun will become a Short-Barreled Rifle . You must register your weapon with ATF.)

Anyone have experience with / heard commentary on this specific product?

Would seem like an interesting alternative to a pistol-caliber carbine, certainly less expensive and more compact.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, November 26, 2005, at 04:41:21 (ZULU)

Boris the Joe,

Good to hear that you are back flying the un-friendly skies. Alwyas good to get the blood pumping on a little TERF/LAT flying. Got on a little LLL NVG TERF the other night, almost killed a little tree, but it was kinda in my way.

Keep the blue side up

Kush out

kush
Oki, - Saturday, November 26, 2005, at 08:36:53 (ZULU)

Kush: I haven't done any follow-up research and I'm not asking you to post anything you shouldn't. We read reports of air operations against enemy forces in Syria and we assume Dave's buddies are operating under the radar to make mischief. Given that, do you have any information that US forces are involved in sustained ground ops in Syria?

CDC'
Saturday, November 26, 2005, at 15:35:25 (ZULU)

Let's say that a fellow wanted to take a 5-day CQB / urban combat course. Pistol and carbine, run and gun.

Let's say that Gunsite was deemed out of contention, because someone had heard that Bob Young resigned out of disgust, and he'd also heard that Ed Head fired Patty Rogers.

He'd been told that The Jefe was disallowed usage of his own ranges again. The rumor mill has it that a fellow is reliving "the worm" years, although with a casting difference.

Let's say a fellow found that Thunder Ranch, in their new Oregon location, only offers their urban combat course for 3 days instead of the 5 offered when they were in Texas.

Where is a fellow to find a good 5 day course? Is Blackwater the only viable alternative?

All hypothetically speaking of course.

Bravo
Sunday, November 27, 2005, at 02:23:34 (ZULU)

Wheel Gun Dudes,

.41 Mag has stolen my heart for some reason, so I guess I'm askin what revolving type shooter would you suggest, Ruger Blackhawk, Taurus Tracker, Smithie??

What barrel length?

Loads?

Also found a Marlin lever gun in the same cartridge for a nominal $375, good deal (like new never shot)? Would you do the lever gun over the pistola? Don't know why I likee the .41 so much, guess it don't punish me like a .44. Got dies already and access to lots of brass. So... what ya say fellers?

Scott F.
Hillbillyland, USA - Sunday, November 27, 2005, at 03:51:31 (ZULU)

Scott F.,

You have D/R mail on the way.

Doc

Doc Holloway
The balmy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Sunday, November 27, 2005, at 04:47:29 (ZULU)

Bravo,

One word answer to your hypothetical questions...

BADLANDS

Bobby Whittington
Grandfield, OK, USA - Sunday, November 27, 2005, at 05:25:29 (ZULU)

Bravo: If Gunsite's training is still good, I would take the training. Jeff's problems are Jeff's problems.

CDC'
Sunday, November 27, 2005, at 07:40:08 (ZULU)

Bravo, check rifles only out. Look at their website, if you want something different than is on the course description call them up. Good people, good instruction. http://www.riflesonly.com/

Tony Burkes
ALVIN, TEXAS, UNITED STATES of AMERICA - Sunday, November 27, 2005, at 11:36:25 (ZULU)

Scott F.

If your a real seriuos handgunner. Freedom Arms is the only way to go. Great people there at Freedom Wyoming.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Sunday, November 27, 2005, at 12:25:59 (ZULU)

every time I go out in my ghillie suit and hide my boots give me away. what do you guys do to fix this? I was thinking about making burlap bags that I could strap over my boots for the final crawl but wanted to know if there is some better way to do this? I would of course ghillie the bags.

I wanted to thank all of you that have answered the questions I have asked in the past! you guys have been really helpfule to me!

Do any of you guys live in Southern Oregon?

Jeremy
Sunday, November 27, 2005, at 14:19:14 (ZULU)

Jeremy.........

Take a pair of your old boots and use ShoeGoo to glue burlap on them. Works like a charm. Regular old desert tan boots work well because the soles are kinda brown.

Scott....

I'm kinda wondering why you want to shoot pistol boolits in a rifle. I have never understood why people like this concept. Rifles are rifles, pistols are pistols. Rifle boolits for rifles, pistol boolits for pistols. Your mileage may vary.

41 mags are good rounds. I had one in a Smith many moons ago. I now have a Super Blackhawk 44 7" that has served me very well. Simple in design, strong and very accurate.

Ammo issue..........

Thanks for the opinions.

Courses.........

Damn Bravo, what you wanting to take a course for? You could probably teach a course. If you want to go to Blackwater let me know. I could use a trip to the swamp.

Back to the hole, Bolt out.

Bolt
NC, - Sunday, November 27, 2005, at 17:06:53 (ZULU)

Bravo, on Carbine classes. First off if you attend a class most are very similar in use of carbine in a fight. Find one that fits budget and you like the facility at.

Rifles Only does a good job and nice folks.

Heard very good things about Badlands also.

Both of the above do alot of sniper rifle instruction you might want to check out.

Clint Smith is reported to do a great job, I know nothing about his new facility. Friends liked his old one and class.

I know many who have attended Pat Rogers Carbine class and heard nothing but praise.

So does James Jarrett. You have to check with him to see if he sceduled any for this year.

Now my last word on this, when picking a school. I like to pick one that supports the community. Rifle Only and Badlands come to mind instantly.

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
Ca, - Sunday, November 27, 2005, at 19:01:53 (ZULU)

Scott F: .41 mag is good to go for pistola and a good brush bustin' riffle. I put quite afew .41Mag downrange in the mid 80's. My pair was S&W model 57, and the Marline 1894S both in .41Mag. Shotalotta 185 and 210 grainers. That lever gun in .41 fairly accurate and alot of fun to shoot.

$375 is a good deal for a new/unfired 1894S. Hit me offline if you decide to pass on it... Hell I might pick it up..

Riffles: -

All else - The Major (my wife) says Santa can bring the parts for a heavy riffle (bolt action - repeater(?) ) I'd like to build up either the .338 Lapua or .50 BMG... I can build it - for the most part (except for the fine tuning) myself. I've heard several arguments that say .338Lapua is probably the best all around in terms of hump-ability, long range thumpability, etc...

Just fishing for opinions, no pie fights needed... I trust you all quite abit - as you all have alot of mileage in your various adventures. I'd like to draw on that experience.

thanks all.

Semper Fi, God Bless....

Ken Hunter

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, USofA - What's this crap about my Border agents being attacked?!?!!!? - Sunday, November 27, 2005, at 20:32:05 (ZULU)

Ken:

.338 or .50 BMG?

Cdn Forces are in final stages of adding .338 Lapua capability. In military context it is light-anti-material and also beyond 1000 meters soft target engagement. It would seem to me that if you were looking for a stick that mere mortals could hump in the field, .338 Lapua would be a lot closer to that criteria than something in .50 BMG.

I suspect *repeating* actions that can handle .338 Lapua would be easier/cheaper to acquire than .50 BMG. I seem to recall a dirth of repeating .50 BMG U-build project actions.

You might also look at what your local ranges are permitting too. Not everyone's range danger template can handle .50 BMG.

One source mentions a maximum range of 3700 meters for .338 Lapua.

A different source mention a maximum range of 7400 meters

for .50 BMG.

This would have significant range danger template implications for the different cartridges.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, November 27, 2005, at 22:26:26 (ZULU)

Ken,

I'd go .338 Lapua. Most ranges have banned .50 Cal's in Oregon. There are a lot of reasons besides that. The .338 is a hunting cartridge...they'll play hell getting it banned locally or state wide. Most areas just don't have the safety zone to safely fire the .50 cal or the .338. Longest range we have is 1,000 yards, here in western Oregon. Over east they probably can stretch that a bit. Another issue is not the maximum range the projectile can travel, but the EFFECTIVE RANGE of the round. Let's face it. When we go beyond 1K it gets "iffy" for most of us. George Gardner built mine and it's a great rig. I can send pics if you'ld like.

Scott, I've long been a fan of the .41 Magnum. Since I started shooting them, 25 years ago, I've never been without one. My current .41 is a S&W M57 4". Personally, I'd look for at primo used Smith. The Ruger is a great gun, as well. Your choice...just get one!

Jerry, I'm in Salem, OR. How far south are you?

We had an offer assaulted this morning and I'm running on 2 hours sleep. I'm outta here.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Monday, November 28, 2005, at 02:38:25 (ZULU)

"American By Gods Amazing Grace" by Luke Strickland

I believe you guys will enjoy this. Listen to EVERY word.

Click on my name.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Monday, November 28, 2005, at 03:12:53 (ZULU)

HELLO ALL!!!!

1st. I want to thank the person that posted about the sheep. as one with teath I THANK YOU. well said.

2nd. on the HS Precision stocks. I love all of mine. so at least there is 2 of us that would keep them.

3rd. on the 338 Lapua and the 50BMG I love my HTR in 338 Lapua its a little abusive but not like the 50

As a man of read listen and say few words I have said to much.

Again the sheep with teath Thank You....

Ervin
Monday, November 28, 2005, at 04:09:45 (ZULU)

Guys, thanks for the thoughts on the CQB course. Really. I really value what I've got here, and in my e-mail as well!

And Mike, while I really REALLY appreciate the vote of confidence, I don't deserve it.

While running one of these 3 gun competitions, I've had an epiphany. I've been using a carbine like a small, lightweight rifle. My guess is that this has something to do with why I'm accurate, but not getting faster. Like I've hit some kind of "speed wall", where if I push for faster, things start getting sloppy. Too sloppy. There has to be some fundimental difference in technique that I'm just not getting. That's what I'm after, utilizing the difference between the carbine and the rifle to maximum potential.

And some further instruction on the too-close stuff would be helpful as well LOL!

But as for your offer, if that's the way things go, expect a line to be dropped!

And UnDude, I thought the word on James was that he'd retired from that game! No joke, I believe it was just last week, I was saying that I really liked his class but was under the impression that there were no more to be had. Was I out of my tree?

50 Vs The Lapdog: I think it depends on where you're at. My range goes out as far as you could want (probably not more than 2500 yards, I've never measured it all to be honest), but due to the terrain, shooting from the bed of the pickup is required "out there". The Kittywhacker talked me into the 50. What I'm getting at is that if you're stuck on a range, then you have to go by range rules. If you're not subject to range rules, why not go whole hog? I can't think of anything that the 338 can do that a 50 can't, but I can think of several things the 50 can that the 338 can't. Agreed, at a weight penalty ;-)

I just can't afford a repeater, but that's my problem.

Bravo
Monday, November 28, 2005, at 04:50:46 (ZULU)

CDC,

I'll take a walk down to our local neighborhood 'Deuce and see what I can dig up on the Syrian border that I won't have to kill ya to tell ya.

Later

Kush out

kush
Oki, - Monday, November 28, 2005, at 10:38:44 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Clint's class went to 3 days because size is limited to 8 people max. Instead of 6 hours actual instruction per day in 5 days, you get 8 hrs. in 3 days. You can only absorb so much material in 8-10 hours at that level of intensity. Plus you learn directly from Clint all day. Very personalized.

Bear hunt...

We got another bear this year in PA. 5th season in a row for our camp. There were 2 in one area again this year. I think a sow and cub(2 yr.old) and the sow will probably go 300 plus. Our member got the smaller bear which had a LW at 144. Nice bear. On another note..

Dateline Harrisburg, PA.....11/22/05

Local bear hunter shot a 320 lb bruin with a .444 rifle and proceeded to check the animal. As he approached, the bear growled (which he said he didn't hear, witness' did) and grabbed him around the waist with one arm/paw, bit him on each thigh once and flopped over dead. Hunter said he shot the bear 4 times with said rifle and animal was down and still as he approached. No official word on actual hits or accuracy of same. :))

John

acehigh
Blmgtn, IN, USA - Monday, November 28, 2005, at 11:26:01 (ZULU)

I have a picture of a light ghillie suit I have been working on and I wanted to know what you guys think of it? do you know how I can post a photo?

The jacket and pants weigh about 3LBS together and can fit in a really small space. thought this might be good when weight and space is a real issue .

Jeremy

Jeremy
Monday, November 28, 2005, at 13:03:06 (ZULU)

I thought "Shooter" by Jack Coughlin was interesting. He advocated a radical change in sniper doctrine. Ken M has made similar comments here. So, Ken, have you read the book? If so, do you have any comments? If not, hit me off-line and I'll send you this copy.

CDC'
Monday, November 28, 2005, at 17:00:23 (ZULU)

Acehigh

That's interesting, i've shot two Minnesota bear with my 444 Marlin and not so much as a wimper from them.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Monday, November 28, 2005, at 23:21:49 (ZULU)

Back to the 338-Lapua vs. 50-BMG discussion ...........

Duman

P.S. - Ken, if you add up all your honey-due favors, including futures, and take all future gifts for the next year or two, can you combine them and get BOTH the 338 and 50 ? ;8-p

Duman
Monday, November 28, 2005, at 23:34:02 (ZULU)

Ervin;

You are very welcome for the sheep parable. Glad you liked it. It's not mine originally, I borrowed it.

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Tuesday, November 29, 2005, at 03:20:00 (ZULU)

Completely off topic, but gotta get this out....

Been out of the academy for 8 months and tonight I went on a shooting call where a 17 year old shot and killed his 11 year old sister with a single shot shotgun that "just went off" and wasn;t loaded. What a waste of two lives.

Back to lurk mode.

Marc

marc ingram
Greensboro, NC, USA - Tuesday, November 29, 2005, at 10:31:08 (ZULU)

Gary,

Shot placement is essential. The 380 lb'er taken last year had 7 entry holes and was hit by at least 3 different calibers before he dropped. When they're runnin thru brush that's so thick you can't see each other 50' away it's tough to get a good solid hit without alot of luck. These areas are/were clear cut some 10-15 years ago and then fenced for the regrowth period. Knee high grass and weeds and straight saplings 8-12' about 1 foot on center(or less) in every direction. Thickest stuff I've ever hunted, bar none. Each of these plots run about 1/4-1/2 mile square or more. We post shooters at one end and push thru it, pushing the bear/deer out the end, hopefully. Some of the smarter ones just circle back between you and the guy next to ya or slip out the side. Definitely one of the quickest animals and quietest for it's size I've ever seen. They can be spooky quiet.

John

acehigh
Blmgtn, IN, USA - Tuesday, November 29, 2005, at 12:10:07 (ZULU)

Bullet construction is also critical. I think that fact is under-appreciated.

Joe Lieberman (by way of Instapundit):

"I have just returned from my fourth trip to Iraq in the past 17 months and can report real progress there. More work needs to be done, of course, but the Iraqi people are in reach of a watershed transformation from the primitive, killing tyranny of Saddam to modern, self-governing, self-securing nationhood--unless the great American military that has given them and us this unexpected opportunity is prematurely withdrawn. . . .

"Here is an ironic finding I brought back from Iraq. While U.S. public opinion polls show serious declines in support for the war and increasing pessimism about how it will end, polls conducted by Iraqis for Iraqi universities show increasing optimism. Two-thirds say they are better off than they were under Saddam, and a resounding 82% are confident their lives in Iraq will be better a year from now than they are today. What a colossal mistake it would be for America's bipartisan political leadership to choose this moment in history to lose its will and, in the famous phrase, to seize defeat from the jaws of the coming victory."

CDC'
Tuesday, November 29, 2005, at 13:33:34 (ZULU)

Have not read the book, I'll grab a copy at the local library, I noticed it there last time I was doing some research. But thank you for the offer.

The book fomented lots of hate within the sniper community because nobody ever heard of the guy, and the book seemed to make some fairly serious allegations. IMO, it's an author putting too much frosting on the story. I don't know the guy, but that doesn't mean shit; I don't know lots of people, his ideas will stand, or not, on their own merits. The USMC sniper community, especially, has some serious issues with badge protectors being more concerned about "coolness" than about combat effectiveness. There's some real ego issues and lots of juvenille attitudes left over from peacetime. Best dealt with in-house IMO, but you'd have to be stupid not to notice they were there. S/F...Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Tuesday, November 29, 2005, at 16:31:54 (ZULU)

Marc I, just retired after 25 plus years in LE. All I can say is this. You can not control the outcomes. Help where you can but dont give away yourself to the point you take away from your family. Go out do the job but your life is at home, with friends, family, wife and kids. Thats whats truly important not the job. Someone did the job before you and someone will after you are gone.

Last word of advice to help your sanity. F.. with the people that need to be F...d with and leave the rest of the people the F... alone. Save your moving violations cites for real good ones not some poor guy or gal attempting to get to work and fudging just a bit.

Bravo, he goes back and forth. Shoot him an email,

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Tuesday, November 29, 2005, at 18:05:32 (ZULU)

Acehigh

I hunt north of Grand Marias just south of the Canadian border. We're coming into what you discribe . Storm damage and then clear cutting about five years ago.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Tuesday, November 29, 2005, at 23:35:38 (ZULU)

Hey all youse Hi Power types. I have a hypothetical s(h)ituation.

On another board, a guy is spoutin' off about accuracy, how it's not necessary with an AR and anything over 200 yards should be with a scoped rifle, yada yada...

Anyway, he went on to post this...

"Now Im not great with open sites, but I would bet money that I can shoot better from distances over 200yds with a scope, than the absolute BEST marksman on the planet with open sites"

So naturally I replied...

"Take just about any one of the "President's Hundred", and put 'em on the 200 yard line, and you with your scoped whatever. Shoot from the identical positions, and see how you do. "

Now that got me thinking. I know any one of the President's 100 and most of you guys can shoot like a house-a-fire. So what would you say the size of someone like Tubb's offhand group sizes are (you pick the yardage)? I'm sorry, but I would imagine that someone like Tubb (or Holliger, Liwinag etc.) would likely clean your average joe's clock at 600 yards while they shoot their scoped PSS (from the same positions mind you. No rucks, bipods etc) at 200 yards.

Later

Rich

Rich S.
MD, - Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 00:32:58 (ZULU)

Ken M: "(Shooter) fomented lots of hate within the sniper community because nobody ever heard of the guy,..."

Staff Sgt. Sniper slot. Bronze star. Lots of confirmeds. Unless someone is making up some serious stuff, the guy sounds like the real deal.

"...and the book seemed to make some fairly serious allegations."

The allegations concerned doctrine. He said that our's was developed under conditions far different than those we now encounter and our doctrine is outmoded. It sounds similar in tone to things you have said here.

"IMO, it's an author putting too much frosting on the story."

The basic description of events was okay but much of the book sounded as if it was written for an unsophisticated audience. That's the publisher, the editor and the guy who did the actual writing.

Creative control. Oy.

CDC'
Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 01:11:07 (ZULU)

Rich S

"On another board, a guy is spoutin' off about accuracy, how it's not necessary with an AR and anything over 200 yards should be with a scoped rifle, yada yada..."

Your first mistake is going to another site!

Your second mistake is caring what is said!

Sounds like grade school.....my dad can beatup your dad...

My .02

Jerry

Baltimore, Maryland, USA - Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 01:48:15 (ZULU)

MARC:

Welcome to the party. Can't save the world bro. Do all you can do and call it a day. It's a marathon not a sprint. Over a career ... you will help thousands.

Saw the same thing in '96 with a .357. Tragic. Start the Eddie Eagle Program in the schools and save kids. Worked for me. Not one accidental shooting since.

This always stuck with me:

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you stare long enough into an abyss, the abyss will stare back into you".

Friedrich Nietzsche

MIKE MILLER:

Sage advice. Right there with ya. Did that IRS info show up?

Ref: Jack Coughlin/SHOOTER

Read the book. Enjoyed it (unlike JARHEAD). Some poetic license taken (like Marine Sniper). Commenting much further would be straying from my lane but I have it on good (damn good) authority that Jack Coughlin saved a lot of Marines. That carries the mail where I live every day. The man was newly divorced with kids to feed.

Book money may be keeping his head above water.

NOTE: Some called BS when J.T. Ward wrote of Chuck Mawhinney in Dear Mom, A Snipers Vietnam ... i.e.

"I" ... never heard of him so HE must be lying ..."

Low and behold Chuck appears and the self appointed sniper "Gods" had to eat some crow ...

It's a big world. Nobody knows it all.

brian k. sain
Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 03:49:53 (ZULU)

Brian,

What type of bulbs do your LE tactical flashlights use? Are they Xenon bulbs or LED's?

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The chilly Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 03:54:25 (ZULU)

Hey Doc ... my Surefires all use standard bulbs. No LEDs in my current stuff. I have a Z2, 6P, a little green nitrolon and an M900 on one of my ARs.

brian k. sain
Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 03:58:53 (ZULU)

Doc, LEDs are great for rescue and other emergency work, they just don't make enough light yet to fill the 'combat' niche. The 3W luxeon LED is a great little bulb when paired with a single 123 battery. I posted about a year back about the Nuwai unit I ended up with for personal carry... approx $35.

Click my name for a pic link, but shop around for a better price.

medicjim
Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 04:22:10 (ZULU)

TM303X flashlight mentioned by Medicjim:

http://www.lighthound.com/sales/nuwai_tm303x.php

Seems competitive

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 04:33:39 (ZULU)

Thanks gents,

The flashlight info is greatly appreciated. My memory is about as long as something else I have and it's damned short! After seeing your photos Jim, I remember the postings.

Thanks again & Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The chilly Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 06:08:43 (ZULU)

Doc,

Agree with medicjim in that the LEDs don't have enough ommph for the "combat" use, my M-6 Guardian however has plenty.

On that note, I had a Z-3 with the LED conversion head, it was pretty damn bright and had up to 8hrs of "usable" light. I say had because some rat bas@#rd lifted it off my gear in Iraq. I miss it but an too lazy to buy another.

I do have an A-2 Aviator, and that's a kinda cool animal, gives you the LED run-time with the punch of a xenon bulb. Kinda gives you the best of both worlds. Workie great for pre-flighting the bird in the forward slash on a low light night.

Qual at the pistol range tomorrow, doin the no-rain dance

Later Hawgs

Kush out

kush
Oki, - Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 10:47:42 (ZULU)

I have one name for a awesome flashlight - Gladius

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=685

http://www.night-ops.com/Gladius-6V-LED.html

http://www.strategosstore.com/images/products/pdfguides/75200.pdf

Video: http://www.blackhawkvideo.com/videos/night-ops/opstest.html

Darren...

Semper Fi

Darren
Bay Area, Ca, USA - Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 14:20:03 (ZULU)

FYI ... the guy that designed the Gladius ... Ken Good (SEAL/Sniper) also put the Surefire Inst. and white light tactics ON THE MAP before going his own way. Anyone that says otherwise is misinformed.

He also happens to be the webmaster at AmericanSnipers.org and a good friend to me and my band of merry marauders. Couldn't have done the things we have done without him. Awesome individual.

brian k. sain
Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 14:57:53 (ZULU)

Gladius - Ken Good ( http://strategosintl.com/index.html )

Brian, from what I hear, and what I have seen on other forums, and his reponse to my posts, my feelings are that he is squared away individual and one that you can trust when you need someone to cover your six.

On a different note, how are you and yours guys doing since the hurricane?

I've been damned to busy to do anything since the baby but I have been able to get to the pistol range on several occasions to get some rounds down range. The good woman decided that I needed some time off and said yes to my multiple requests. My next trip will be down to the rifle range to re-sight in my Nor-Cal rifle.

1911 quesion:

Just wondering how many of you HOGS have the Springfield TRP and what your thoughts are.

Darren...

Semper Fi

Darren
Bay Area, Ca, USA - Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 15:13:49 (ZULU)

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