September 2000

Just the sort of crap the Liberal left, million mom marchers want to see. This way they can point their fingers and shout, see thats what we are against. Rather than showing ourselves as intelligent, responsible, voting members of society, we get Kevin: OOps I mean Justin.

If the Justin's of the world are more concerned with the sexuality of some kid who wants to join the Scouts and learn some of the great things Justin did and then take those things the Scouts taught him out and apply them to making the world a better then maybe we should be having a million citizen march on DC and demand tolerence in our society. Something by the way is a constitutional right. Like The right to keep and bear arms or speak freely (no matter how ignorant the content). Hey Justin. It seems to me one of the lessons I learned in Scouts was to judge my fellow man/ woman for what they had to offer not what they do in their own home. Which if you read your own posting, you yourself suggest we have no right to comment on.

As a man who has 3 children who may or may not join Scouts I worry that they will encounter guys with skinned heads and swastikas on their arms. A circumstance that could easily become fact if prudent citizens and ADULTS don't police the "Private" organizations.

Oh, and let me take one last shot. Justin, If you are a long time reader of this site; why would you jump in here with a load of garbage to post, no coherent argument, and the audacity to tell the population of regulars to "F*@& off." And if you were a regular reader you would not have started off with "I am 19 and I......blah blah blah. HEY........! IS YOUR NAME KEVIN? C'MON YOU CAN TELL US ITS OK!!!!!

Stay in your playpen kid. When your old enough to drive that "71 Vette, give us a call.

WOW. Sorry gang that stuff has a way of flippin my scope covers.

Play Hard!

Mars
Mars <marspirate@yahoo.com>
An educated place in America, NY to be specific, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 00:18:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.148)

Learn the rules of engagement before you attempt to play. You'll live longer.

Playing Hard!

Mars
Mars <Marspirate@yahoo.com>
Yupstate, NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 00:25:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.148)

I have been shooting the Federal 168 gr BTHP and have gotten great groups at the 100 yds. I also was getting great groups at 600yds. I have tried the Hornady 168 gr match also but did not like it as much. The groups looked like I was shooting OO buck at 25 yds.
Craig <TACTICALTM@hotmail.com>
Rifle, CO, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 00:27:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.27)

I'm not "whimping" the bolt and I can't find anything about the longitudinal angle of the rifle at the time of extraction that makes a difference. To summarize, I'm flummoxed. This is the first "push-feeder" that I've ever owned (other than Garands and M1 carbines) and while a simple extractor replacement might do the job (to reiterate, the ejector is free, slick and strong) I'd like to understand what's amiss with the rifle.

Anyone have a clue?

Thanks Much,
Ken
Ken Smith <ken@ekrus.com>
Colorado Springs, CO, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 00:27:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.93.12.57)

Which Win 70 do you have? the Stealth, or the regular heavy barrel. and which stock do you have?
Craig <TACTICALTM@hotmail.com>
Rifle, CO, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 00:32:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.27)

Play Hard!

Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Oneonta, NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:04:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.148)

There are 70-80 million gun owners in the US. How many are NRA and/or GOA? 4-5 million? How many of them that DON'T own "evil black assault rifles" or "evil sniper rifles" are going to get off their fat a$$es and VOTE in November?

I would hazard a guess that if 15-20 million gun owners would vote a one-issue vote (2nd amendment), we would have GWB in the WH.

I'm not saying he's just what we need but he sure beats the hell out of Algore. I don't even want to hear about Nader or the Libertarians.

Long holiday weekend coming up. Everybody stay safe - and have some "quality" time at the range.

Moe Mensale
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Mouth of the Rat, FL, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:07:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.194)

jp <vettepilot71@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:16:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 139.102.118.139)

Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Mouth of the Rat, FL, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:16:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.194)

And I think that homosexuals in line units will be WONDERFUL for morale and recruitment. Ask anyone who has been in the field with a combat unit.

Now let's all hold hands and sing Kumbiah.

CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:19:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.59)

Thank you and you're welcome; all in one sentence. I will send a note to your e'mail.

I suspect that the big hullabullooo over the gays in the Scouts thing boils down to people being intolerant about other peoples intolerance. Not too much different than my ranting about your rant. Possibly it is a bit oversimplified putting that way huh?.

Oh well, I'ld say God bless America but I'm not so sure there is a God (whatever that is) and besides I don't want to aggrevate the others like me here.

Yikes this is tricky stuff. HA!

Play hard!

Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Oneonta, NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:22:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.148)

When were these things shipped? Have a batch lot of serial numbers? Damn!

Does that mean that if my 308, 7mm and 300 are shooting real nice tidy little groupies now, that I can shrink them down even more with a straight chamber?

Would have to be a damn sight better for me to break these muthers down and have to go throught the whole process again. Not to mention muy expensivo!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:25:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.43.139)

Kurt
Kurt <confederate123@yahoo.com>
columbus, ms, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:25:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.155.48.30)

CDC yer killin me.

Justin,

No harm no foul kiddo.

Maybe playin too Hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Gettin off My high horse in , NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:26:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.148)

CDC yer killin me.

Justin,

No harm no foul kiddo.

Maybe playin too Hard!
Mars

And lets not forget these two lovelies.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or
abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear
arms, shall not be infringed.
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Gettin off My high horse in , NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:27:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.148)

Firefight. Fellow soldiers hit and bleeding all around you. You recover some and get them behind cover (or they've pulled your sorry ass out of the line of fire and are plugging the holes in your limbs and torso, sticking you with blood expander and maybe putting in trach lines or covering the sucking chest wound holes). You're trying to hold in your own guts while weak hand pulling the .45 out of the leg holster under your very bulky/hot body armor and TA-50 harness (because the AK round that went thru the mag well of your M4 screwed you big-time).

The medic/doc/PJ/corpsman helping plug you together (or you're trying to keep alive) you know happens to be an advocate of the "Alternate Life Style", and just before the shooting began was identified as HIV-positive before they could start admin out-processing (Don't ask, don't tell, don't harass, don't pursue). By the way, there's blood and body parts (let alone body fluids) all over everybody.

Survive the firefight. Die later of HIV complications. Did you infect the surgical staff during triage and emergency surgery, or your wife in the period after you were medically retired?

Thing that make you go hmmm.

Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:51:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.214.146)

Anyhow, I called Remington today and was told that the triggers are "factory set and there's no need to adjust them," hence the new lack of adjustment screws. "That's just the way it is," they said. They didn't seem very concerned that a 6-pound creepy trigger on a precision/target rifle isn't conducive to precision/target shooting.

Surely _someone_ out there has even a little knowledge, insight and/or interest in this information?
62-0x <paniolo@hawaii.rr.com>
Honolulu, HI, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 02:10:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.65.75.124)

All good questions but ya can't walk through life worrying about what if. Thats called muddling through.

Definately what you suggest though..... things that are worth going hmmmm over.

Play Hard

Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Not the City, NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 02:10:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.148)

Sorry I got lost in my ethics. A bad mistake.

Regarding your concern I am not a real technical type but the idea that the Remington people say thats it and leave you no option seems counter productive and almost absurd.

I agree for a precision item there should be flexibility for the operator to tune up.

Play Hard!

Mars.
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Oneonta, NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 02:15:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.148)

Justin: welcome to the roaster dude. Consider it trial by fire ;-) BTW, the "a" in roaster is no typo. I was never an eagle scout, but I've heard that the only difference between the Army and Scouts was that the Scouts didn't have arty. HA! If we can get you shooting like you want, more power to you. I'd drop the soviet long range shotgun though. DOUBLE HA! Now for the tripple HA: for fast, agile, and 'glass, trade 'Vette in on a Shelby Cobra replica from LoneStar. Sorry, the last part was just for me.

Patron Dave: your fairy tale sounded too much like reality. I always wondered why they do the testing AND say don't ask. DUH. But you didn't start it off with a "Rock the good Ag", so I didn't whoop. You think with this cum-hander in chief soldiers question such things before taking care of wounded troops? Nah, there's paperwork to protect us!

Wild Bill: you're two behind. And what's this "a beer"? And don't eat the brownies!

62-0X: the reason I don't say anything on the topic is because I know nothing of it! This is bad info for those who purchase them new, I suppose it's like shooting after the ammo is banned. My reply will be the same: "well, I've got mine". No solace for the next generation though.

Mars: you might wanna pull a clit-ton and reword those first two darlings. They don't rap well. Don't let Rosie help you though, or we got dead air. Hey, have "a beer" and relax.

Geoff called, my CAR is shipping Tuesday (he doesn't want oops having it lay around for ANY time, a move I wholeheartedly agree with!). He says it weighs next to nothing, will do MOA with ease, and is butt ugly! The description was a "really quick and lightweight little rifle". Needless to say, I'm looking forward to it, something I've not said about a black carbine for a number of years. I just don't have luck with black carbines or 45 autos. So I'm gonna paint it ;-)
Brew Master Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
you talking to me? YOU talkin' to ME??, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 02:54:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.190)

Bravo...
Crooked Chambers?... what Crooked Chambers... Winchester ain't got no "Crooked Chambers"!!
That's strictly a Ilion problem... and not the first.

62-OX...
That's bad news about the Rem triggers... but it's no suprise. Remington has been "sealing" things up for years, because of some law suites they lost, and now, with the "partnership" with Stren fishing line (where Stren pulls the strings), they are getting further and further out of touch with their shooting public... much as Smith & Wession's non-shooting owners in England, have.
But the 40-X's have beautifully adjustable triggers, or you can get a Winchester M70... Win still remembers why people guy guns, and who buys them... there is no sealer on the trigger at all... adjust away.

CDC...
your intolerance towards people that are intolerant of other's intolerance, is very notable, and tolerable!
I vote for tolerance toward mud wrestling, lesbo, Girl Scouts.

"Sinister Dave"...
Yes... Hmmm! Take life one day at a time, and not too seriously!
 

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 03:51:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.47)

Mark <markj12pct@aol.com>
Ohio, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 04:02:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.194.191)

Sinister Dave: WELL SAID!
-but I thought we carried the pistol to deal with the medics
(joke I'm not trying to Flame Medics or Corpsman [again])

Mike - 'Lito Hey B&L rule - I had mine almost 8 years and its the only piece of kit I haven't [yet] busted.

Bravo - I just finished 'Unintended Consequences' now why do I think of you?

Jerry - Sorry Tape still incomplete (not all my fault) my M203 hasn't come back from being repaired and that was part of the night/low light signature portion.

Definitely not going to Storm w/ any Western Canadian contingent
I drove over a Toyota Supra last month and the bills and insurance increase are taking a bite of my earmarked coin. And the others don't want to pay my way (how rude)
But four are planning (and saving for next year)
Maybe Mike you and James can get something cooked up for next spring and I can extend the Northern Invasion (but bringing lotsa BEER)
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 04:30:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.142.27)

Mi amigo, I know how much you NUB your Win's............

BUT...........unfortunately, I also have heard drumbeats of the SAME kind coming from their encampment..........not to the same level, but still got their own prob's...........

Wonder if we need to start taking bore scopes, and hex wrenches to the sporting goods section and take a good look see before we buy??????

This news (on the triggers), will just about do em' in...........
now for the reciever to do a build, you got to add another "C" note for a trigger!!!!

Never owned a WIN, guess it's high time..........
Two Shoes <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 04:41:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.205.16)

You gents definitely need to see the latest rifle our custom gunsmith just built. A bolt action .338 Lapua Mag. With A-2 Stock, stainless fluted barrel...very sweet. Shoots great...(we'll take it to the range when you come over Chuck) The 'smith is picking up my spare M-70 Classic long action on sunday to build the same rifle for me in .300 Win Mag. (Just because the .300 is less expensive to shoot than the .338 LM at 60 or 70 dollars a box). All of the .338's being built for our store are on Remington actions. I picked up this Winchester action, So, In the interest of economics, I'm going to use it. As soon as I can get digi-pics I will post it to our website.

Later All.
 

Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Stillhotternhell, Florida, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 04:44:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.74.11)

jp <vettepilot71@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 06:33:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 139.102.118.139)

I haven't run into the "pinned, non-adjustable" triggers yet (hope I never do), but I would suggest a very close re-examination.

To echo a previous post, the adjustment screws can appear to be lacking, due to the depth of the threaded holes that they sit in and the copious amounts of lawyer-mandated epoxy that they are buried under. Getting misinformation from Remington phone drones would not be considered newsworthy, either.

Liberal application of acetone (don't go to the chemical supply company, just ask your wife to borrow a bit of her fingernail polish remover) will dissolve the stuff, or at least soften it to the point that it can be removed with the point of a penknife, allowing you to adjust to your heart's content. When adjustment is complete, a dab of your wife's nail polish (you pick the color) will seal the screws and prevent the adjustments from shooting loose.

If the triggers are indeed now non-adjustable, order a 40X trigger (about $70.00 a year ago)......not only fully-adjustable, but the weight-of-pull adjustment screw is externally accessible. Funny that Remington sells this trigger but doesn't want you to adjust the stock trigger.

Standard Warning:
If you are not competent to adjust a trigger, let a good gunsmith do it. His $30-40 fee is a lot cheaper than lawyer's fees, legal judgements, funerals, etc.

See some of you at Storm.

Pete and ''lito.......Get the sheep OK?

Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 06:47:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.215.104.68)

Mustangs? Corvettes? Maybe I will get that .50 BMG.

Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
BetterthanthepeoplesdemocaticrepublicofNY, Fl, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 14:19:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.2.209.21)

On Rem 700 triggers, spend the money and get a
Jewell. They make a fine trigger, well worth the dough.

Chuck and Ken, Way late post and response, I have not spent any time in Quantico, but comeJan. I will be spending
about 9 months there. After TBS, I willbe joining Chuck in the FLA AO, in the loveley Pensacola area where I'll be yankin' & bankin'.

Semper Fi!

Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 15:03:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.28.201.87)

Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 15:22:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.2.209.21)

Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@Prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 16:00:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.2.209.21)

I've decided to hunt elk this year here in the Colorado Rockies. I'm going to use my tactical rifle. It's an original Steyr SSG69 fitted with a Leupold M3LR scope with mil dot reticle. I have two questions to ask.
1. Will the Nosler 180gr ballistic tips I have do the job for me?
2. Can someone give me some dimensions on the animal so I can work up
the range dope.
Don't worry. No, I think I can shots here. Just want to have the information in my log book. A 10th group SOTIC instructor told me once that your log book can look like a local phone book as long as it contains usefull information that will help you get the job done.
I tend to agree.
Thanks,
Don
Don <don@libertyoutfitters.com>
Florissant, Colorado, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 16:32:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.177.58.102)

100 -5 1/2 -5 3/4

200 -3 -3 1/4

300 0 0

400 3 1/2 3 3/4

500 7 1/2 8 1/4

600 12 13 1/4

700 18 18 3/4

800 24 25 1/4

900 31 33

1000 39 41 1/2

Note these are Book values for the M24 and all are cumulative MOA

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 16:38:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.140.27)

Bruce R...
The reason the sandard triggers aren't adjustable, is the design begs to be mis-adjusted, and many "numrods" have gotten in trouble with it (and then sued Remington).
Keep in mind that most gun owners aren't like the bumz on this site (ol' "chainsaw" has already modified his "308 towed", and hasn't shot 30 rounds out of it yet)...
The average gun owner shouldn't even be allowed to remove the action from the stock!! I'll get flack for that statment, but remember the guys next to you at the range, before you start sending the incoming!!

The reason the 40-XB triggers ARE adjustable, is that by the time you're shooting well enough to be in that league, you know (hopefully) what the hell you're doing.

And yes, I got the sheepies... luv them ;)

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 17:06:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.47)

Mike, check your Tactical@tacticalintervention.com email ID!

Bob
Bob Hodge <bhodge@primenet.com>
Out west, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 17:24:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.48.173.129)

Kevin: yes, this time you: All right, you've formally done it. The "unintended consequences" goes on the stack of reading material for when the snow is deep and cold. Then I'll know if that was a compliment or insult ;-) You make it here for the fun, I'll try my hand at Moosehead or Molsen, and lots of it! Now where did I put the rice and water?

Bruce: Seems the eco-swine have made lanolin filled non-acetone stuff! Worth checking before swabbing. The Big Jim chiles came in, but they're HOT(!!), Hatch has nothing to fear from our little garden! How the seeds changed, I dunno.

And congrats are due to my great state. HCI just turned out results saying that we went from a "D" last year to a "D-" this year! Our majority state senator went on record as saying "well, it proves we're doing something right". Now for the "other" part. We have purty much agreed what would happen with the blue pots, but what about these domestic enemies? I'm not advocating a field trip to KA or anything, but that we ought to THINK about the next step and what would be prudent, legal, and right. I'd wholy advocate gunnies moving in and taking over (with voting) a sparsely populated state, as a last bastion of greatness. After all, a well run state does NOT have to bow to demands of the Fed!
Brew Master Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic formerly known as the, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 17:57:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)

Guess what goes through a medic's head every time he/she has to scrape up some piece of garbage in a car wreck or shooting? Real medics are hard as nails, aggressive as hell and smart..I have had to wash in bleach more than once before entering the house...and gone without "conjugal privilege" due to meningitis / encephalitis exposure...talk about commitment!

Just as an FYI - AIDS is a pretty wimpy virus...you really gotta "ask" for it to get infected....the stats on an HIV contaminated accidental needle stick are something like 100 to 1 that you won't contract the disease. Wanna be scared, talk about HEP-B,C-D...that stuff jumps at you! Most AIDS patients are that way because they are IV drug users...sexual preference irrelevant.

Kevin ((joke I'm not trying to Flame Medics or Corpsman [again]) - what are you planning on doing with that "pistol to handle the medic"...pull it on me and I just won't save your sorry ass (joke)...actually, I'd really just kick you in the head and save you just so I could gloat later (still jokin'...no offense, really ).....I'm really bummed you aren't going to Storm Mountain this year....I NEED A PARTNER, MINE BACKED OUT.

On the Boy Scouts....is "gay" a personal preference of a political party? I don't think anyone should be kept out of the scouts because of thier personal beliefs, but if you become a troop leader to teach the your beliefs to my children....we'll then, we have a problem.

just my opinion.

Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 18:12:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.20.190.1)

2. Wasn't aimed at medics (I think the Combat Medic's Badge and the roll of Medal of Honor medics is testament to that).

3. I believe soldiers will immediately go to their buddy's aid in a firefight (I've been taught that since even before Day 1 as a Private).

4. If you don't serve in a combat arms unit, or as Jim Mitchell in a professional emergency medical profession where traumatic wounds may potentially cover you in others' gore, this is an academic exercise only. So, Henry K, get bent. It was MY fairy tale. Smut my ass.

Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 20:44:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.214.146)

Semper Fi!!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 21:20:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.2.209.21)

(In the way of gratuitous ego maintenance, I'd like to add that I'm neither a complete dope nor unfamiliar with firearms...it's just that of my near-100 rifles, I have only three that were made since 1960...this PSS being #3. I hadn't seen a disassembled 700 for years, and recall some sort of obvious white strip covering the trigger adjustment screws.)

My trigger is now set at 2.5 pounds, crisp with minimal overtravel, and passes the safety tests with flying colors.

Anyhow, I hope I haven't started some terrible false rumor about Remington putting themselves over a barrel for their lawyers... Sorry again, and thank you very much for your assistance.
0-0x <paniolo@hawaii.rr.com>
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 21:55:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.65.75.81)

The main problem with personal beliefs, and personal lifesyle differences as I see it.

Is no matter how hard you try, you cannot separate the two on a consistent basis.

Problem I have with Homosexuals in the Scouts, is...........

As a Heterosexual male, common sense, tells people with common sense, that I don't get dressed, undressed, take co-ed showers with the opposite sex...........period.

Why?, because MY nature is to be attracted to THE opposite sex.
It's like puttin' booze in front of an alcoholic, and thinking they will NOT drink it!, ain't gonna happen...............

So, tell me the difference?, how do you mix a person that is just as sexually aroused at looking at men, as I would be doing the opposite???????????( not talking Pedophelia here), so don't go there.)

Answer, YOU can't mix them together and expect good things to happen, it's not HUMAN nature.

You are asking for trouble, and believe me you WILL get it.

Off topic, but sorry had to add my .02's worth.

Color me Sick and tired of a group of people trying to get minority status, and special rights, that the rest of us DO NOT have.

And at the same time, forcing a Private group to cowtow to their wishes..................It's UN AMERICAN................

Tolerance used to mean disagreeing with another's perspective, or idea's. And agreeing to disagree.

Now in this world of PC, BS, Tolerance means you will agree and accept MY way off thinking, and MY way off life, or you are a Hater, and a BIGOT................

Long way from the America this stump puller came from...........

Flame away..............
Two Shoes <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 22:37:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.27)

I just found a new source that will accept orders from non-FFl holders. price is 107.95 + shipping(add 3% for credit cards). E-mail me for phone number.

Also- I am shopping to upgrade my barrel & need a "turn key"(short chambered, threaded & crowned)job. Money is tight(this is a recreational rifle)- who do you guys recomend for best quality on cheap dinero? Thanks.
Bill Moore <lmalterna@aol.com>
Goodview, Va, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 22:41:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 151.199.82.102)

Secondly from my understandings as a Canadian (who's Constitution isn't worth the paper it is printed on - "Guns are inherintly dangerous so the laws restricting them can encroach people rights" I could go on. The US 1st Amendment guarantees freedom of speech so let people speak.

Thirdly and most importantly if well all just sit back and be PC what happens... No one spoke out to the Nazi's (at least soon enough)

STAND UP AND BE COUNTED
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 23:04:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.139.78)

I can understand the interest in long range shootin' that's what this site is all about.
Can understand somefolks interest in all the aspects, handloading, spindrift, etc, but...
What's all the interest in Gay Boy Scouts?

The new Precision Shooter came in yesterday, and has a cool article on shootin at REAL long range.
16' steel plates at one and 3/4th of a mile... and the Dude whacked a Prairie Dog at that range to boot, measured with a laser, and witnessed!!.
Talk about tapered bases... 450 moa of taper... (Martin, are you reading this??)...and about 6" high off the reciever for a clean sight path over the barrel...
Course, I remnember the last time long range shootin' at PD's was mentioned (it was Jerry Rice that was doing the shootin'), and a hell storm broke out over the "Poor wittle Prairie Doggies"... you woulda thought it was PETA country...

OK Bravo, get to work! Whack a PD at one klick to warm up ;))

'lito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Lookin' fot he mud wrestlin, lasbo, girl scout camp ;))... in politically Correct, , USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 23:14:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.47)

The military except for special ops use the M24 sws with 118 special ball there is so 118LR out there but it is now the common round.As for results the standard engagement range is only out to 800m but a well trained shooter can engage out to and beyond 1000m these distance of the shot is limited but the ballistics of the round and by the 10x power optics which we use.
 
 

Recondo
Recondo <Jase007911@juno.com>
Ft Campbell, KY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 23:53:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.117.147)

HK: I'm sure that Col. Liwang appreciates your thoughtful instruction in the finer points of military courtesy.

Bravo: Not square dance. It was country rap. I'm sure I'll hear it again as background music in the waiting room to Hell.

CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 00:09:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.28)

One of these days I'm gonna make a pilgrimage to Prarrie Doggie country and see if I can nail some of those critters out past the 700 mark. Around here 300 yards is pretty easy game unless Dorthy is flying by in a tornado, 400 takes me a dope shot or two because I'm changing loads more often than I change underwear(you think I'm kidding!) I think I've nailed a 500 yard squirrel at the range before but I couldn't tell through the scope for certain and I think the range dude would have been awful pissed if I started hiking out to the 500 yard line when 200 is sometimes "iffy" if the range is busy that day(damn gomer pyle types). All I know is that at 500 yards even a 20x Leupold doesn't ID the target nearly as well as I'd like, at 100-200 yards I can tell what the things are thinking on 20x but certainly not at 500. When I get my next long range varmint gun, I'm either having the Loophole boosted or I'm gonna dump a bit more change for a Nightforce, I'll just cross my fingers for nice weather and pray I don't see miles-o-mirage.

Anyone know where I can get some arty to drop on the VarmintCong? I figure some 85mm Mortar dropped on those parrie dog and squirrel towns should be able to take them out when they duck into their tunnels.
B. Douglas(squirrel boy) <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Tossin squirrels like they were a wet sock in Cowpie, Ca, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 00:32:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.162.46.195)

'Lito: you know I'm not that good of a shot. Heck, it was all I could do to put that 5 round group in a pack of winstons at 600. HA! I felt like a dolt until others missed the fleabags too. But that's the beauty of a gas gun, I can miss with great rapidity and rend the ground with STYLE! By the time I get to Storm, I'll be waiting until they run at a click before firing to keep those military guys in shape ;-)

CDC: You're a hoot. You think there's questions why I call Patron Dave such? And if those country guys can do a remake of the Eagles, why don't we hear Bob Dylan doing Marty Robins?

B. Douglas and the Varmint Cong: with all the boyscout stuff here lately, just assure me that it's a crossbow bolt in your rear, not a fun game of a**darts. HA! JOKE!! Man, you've got some AR's that are TRUE space guns! If you shoot as good as they look, the fleabags are in TROUBLE!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Patron 'Lito sent all that blankity blank rain here! Solid week!, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 01:48:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.241)

Gee Whiz guys whats wrong with a homosexual providing guidance and leadership to a bunch of young boys/men.....in a tent....in the woods.....DUH?
 

Bill Rogers,I'm not believing that you could all but leave this alone
 

Next thing you know ya'll won't be able to work that second job as sheep herders.
Bruce E. <bgenlvtex@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 03:13:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.199.188)

My solution for NAMBLA is to use everyone of the perverts as range targets. Only way to cure them.

Gays leading Scouts, goes against everything the good book stands for. I really need to move from Calif.

Speaking of which, I was channel surfing tonite and saw my ugly mug on an NRA Infomercial. That should seal any chances I ever had of making LT. LOL I can hear the Chief coughing up a nut anytime now "What does he mean no two cops in any PD could tell a legal semi auto from an illegal one?"

Well the foot feels pretty good so I will start getting in shape again tomorrow. Especially after seeing my fat face on TV

The Remington trigger is something I have never heard of. Are you certain it has pins and not screws in the holes?

Goy my Tactical Shooter today. They must hold them up at the Calif border. Mine is always a week after everyone elses. Nice plug on my slings by IAn. Thanks Ian.

Mike Haugen, not one but two Savages? Damm they will kick you out of SF for that kind of thing.

Bravo, nect year I promise to make the class an experience of a lifetime.

Dave L., Damm near made me want to cry. My other halfs Dad is in the hospital right now and should have a transfusion but the blood supply is so dangerous that they are going to watch him another day before taking the chance. They normally transfuse around a number 9 and he is at 8 and dropping. Dont ask me what the heck that means but he looks like crap. Been in since Monday. Nice guy Pray for him please.

Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 04:31:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.201)

Hush ya'll Bruce man, I'm tryin to get this idea of "tent Sex" amoung consenting kiddies to catch on. Soon as I get my girl scouts you and ole Dave can do what you want with them girlie men!
I know what Col. Dave wants the pistol for! It's for somebody to hold on him so he won't jump out of one his planes over Iraq to get away from this "man's" Army we got today!

Jim; your gettin close to the problem. "GAY" is a religion and enjoys all the protection of a "Belief". AID's is just a small part of the "belief"... it's kind of a badge of the believer. You got to believe in your illness "Homosexuality" or it ain't no fun. After all, how can you prove you're a true believer if you don't have AIDS? Kind of a "Boned again" religious experience. If your famous otherwise and aren't GAY and you wind up getting this disease, see what happens to you. You won't evens draw a 13th page article in the Inquirer!
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 04:51:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

Let me find out (wednesday) when the Doc is going to replace my knee parts and I'll know when to tell you to come shoot..that invite goes out to any other roosterfarians that want to come to sunny Panama City to shoot.

As a Structural Fire Fighter/EMT I have been puked on, bled on, crapped on, and been elbow deep in newborn baby spooge (sorry, just did not know how else to describe it...he he he he). You really don't think about it at the time... you just do what has to be done. Thank god Paramedics and EMT's are out there... Saved my sorry ass four months ago after a head on collision. But, I am glad I'm fighting wildfires now. No more playing in other people's body fluids.

Pray for the safety of all the guys and gals on the fireline out west.
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
gettingreadytorainlikehell, Fl, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 05:34:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.73.71)

Any one have any good info. on an Elcan sight, 5.56, just got one in for my friend , Will be trying it on my AR!!..................

Thanks................,Biggunn.......
Biggunn <meghan@penn.com>
Mtn. Country, In the HCI low grade state of......., Penna., USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 06:41:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.29.119.94)

Just got in from Austria. Fricking baggage is lost betweeen here and Amsterdam.

Anyway, 2 US cop teams, Boise, ID and Opelaka, AL, took overall top 2 places, using guns built on Remington actions (Autauga being one of them.) WEGA, Vienna SWAT, was third.

More news later when I wake back up.

Out here
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 07:15:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.115.78)

Jerry
Jerry Rice <nor-cal@worldnet.att.net>
American Canyon, CA, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 13:26:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.72.4.108)

I would also like to hear about weapon mounted night vision experiences, such as using McMillan's or ITT's scopes.

Thanks,

Gonzo

[Yes, I know this is a re-post from several days past, but as the topic of discussion had turned from guns to gays, I am asking for input from those who have the true, requesite interest to be on this board.]
 

Gonzo <ktmp5@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 13:55:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.25.164.42)

Yep, I'd love to have a Chandler or (whatever is the current flavor) fully tricked out and all the other neat gear but hey, I'm no longer in the service , on a limited budget, and not quite in my prime. Enough of my "moanin'& groaning"
OUT HERE
Will Adams <willadams@mindspring.com>
War Eagle !!, AL, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 15:57:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.143.150)

If your outfit can afford them a GEN III Omni IV or V set of goggles (not a bi-ocular single tube) set is the ideal. Depth perception and IFF are optimum (which is why helicopter pilots use them to avoid "Controlled flight into terrain" or other solid obstacles).

Funny story: I was demonstrating black-out CQB (with AN/PVS-7 goggles) for my Marine Corps counterpart (may he rest in peace) with IR laser and spot light on M4, and we were tear-assing down a corridor in an apparatus in pitch-black when I ran full-speed head-on into a wall (A la Wile E. Coyote. Remember the depth perception I was talking about with a single tube bi-ocular?). He laughed so hard I thought he was going to wet himself. "Very impressive."

Once again with gadgetry, equipment ENHANCES your SOPs -- it doesn't make up for weaknesses in your training, tactics, and procedures.
Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 15:57:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.214.146)

So the missile defense project is a no-go once again. Not that I'm wanting a raise or anything, but this cum-hander in cheap, the resident of the federal states, decided ONCE AGAIN that we would all sleep better with the victim mentality. Chuck, when we take control of a state 1) no income tax to the fed, state tax only. 2) Canadians welcome for citizenship 3) a LARGE and EFFECTIVE state guard and militia (it'll be needed to ward off the problems of the fed)!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
man, we GOTTA find a better place in the, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 16:08:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.180)

enough already. can't we all just get along.

I got kicked out of the boy scouts. I got caught eating a brownie.
bobbyb <bobbyb@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 16:27:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.211.184.22)

CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 17:36:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.52)

Gettin' ready to head out for Storm Mountain tomorrow morning...
Now let's see chow, bullets, glass, chow, ... trgt data book, chow, oh...there it is 'positive mental attitude'... okay ... got that...oh.. can't forget that rifle either...running shoes/shorts for the pft... oh s**t... I need to stop eating right now... maybe lose enough ass between now and mondy morning to be able to make the pft run in time...not to mention the push-ups part of it...

Ken :)
 

Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 17:51:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)

as far as the rondevous... Im purdy shure it's come as you are....

Ken :)

Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Layin' off the, Captn Crunch Cereal, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 18:14:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)

Hey Marius,
You need any help in south Africa? If everyone there are like the "Protection Specialists" I met in Wien, I'd love to live there!!

Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Boydoimissosterreich, Fl, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 18:16:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.253.148.219)

Does any one have any experience with or have you handled the Spanish or Greek CETME contract/clone of the HK 91/G-3? I'm looking at them in SGN and Gun List, look like a good gun to start a decent rifle on.
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Raininglikehell, Fl., USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 18:20:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.74.96)

As far as conditions go, they hardly get any better than they are now. Temperatures aren't any hotter than 85 max with a gentle breeze if any, the clouds are random and roll in for just long enough to vary the lighting over the terrain. About the only thing I could ask for is green hills instead of these dad-blasted browned out hills. Haha, good news is with the fires we've had recently, our memembers of the Varmint Cong stick out like big giant white fleas when they run through that blackened terra firma.

Now where'd I leave my heavy artilery?
B. Douglas (squirrel boy) <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Cowpie, Ca, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 18:26:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.162.17.95)

Roberto Ordonez <robordon@earthlink.net>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 18:51:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.154.169)

Ken :)

Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 20:22:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)

Since I forget to re-up my dues to PETA, you can feel free to mention whackin' Prairie Doge, Woodies, and especially CROWS, with a rifle, any time you want.
It beats the hell outa talkin about gay boy scouts ;(

I'll back you and "The Rice Man" all day long :))

'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Lookin' for a brownie for dinner!... in CROW country, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 20:32:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.47)

So now what do I torque the 2 reciever screws to and the hinged floor plate screw?
John McGrath <jkmcgrath@home.com>
Springfield, MO, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 22:12:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.255.84)

As for "prairie cong" (great lable by the way) we have a S&!t load of them here and they are the farmers worst enemy. Cattle and horses with broken legs and so on. The local milk makin man encourages you to pop em when ya can.

Gives the PETA people a dilemma probably. If I'm hittin the ground hogs I'm being cruel. If I knowingly let those future hamburgers break their legs I'm cruel cause I let it happen and coulda done sumtin bout it. What a dillema. Well I pick keeping my next cook-out from suffering so I'm gonna load up my nail driver and go be mean to a woodchuck. HA! Which reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw a couple weeks ago; in big latters it said: "I LOVE ANIMALS" small letters underneath it said: "CAUSE THEY TASTE SO GOO!" Double HA!!

Play Hard!

Mars

Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Too many Crows here in , NY, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 22:44:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.242)

Yup... that's glass bedding in the Winchester M70 Stealth. They used to use a thermal bedding compound some years bac, but the last two M70/HBV's I bought, had glass. The ofset is because the aluminum block isn't milled true. Just finished building an M24, and had to hog out the front of the aluminum block, and fill it with stainless glass bedding, to get it true. If it's two much over for you, you can clean it up, and re-bed it.

Hey Mars...
Where in NY do you live. I'll crawl a mile on broken glass to shoot Crows with a rifle... "Black Rain" :))

I used to shoot them out the window with a Beeman "R1", in a little park across from me, and the park guy would just take them away.

Just got a new RWS 75, but I'm afraid to shoot one... they see a dead Crow on the ground these days, and the guys in the white, full BIO-contamination suits show up ;((.
 

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 23:16:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.47)

And why you guys bagging on my personal favorite group PETA? We're just nice guys. We, People for the Eating of Tasty Animals are just another culinary organization like the chef's society.
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
where the black footed bubonic fleabag is endangered, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 23:22:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.196)

Thanks man and hey you know the torq specs on the 3 screws, 2 on the reciever and one on the floorplate? All 65 inlbs?

Thanks
John McGrath <jkmcgrath@home.com>
Springfield, MO, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 23:30:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.255.84)

65 inch pounds for the two on the ends... maybe half that for the center one. The purpose of the center one in to hold the front of the trigger guard, against the magazine box, and snug it up (same as the center screw on Rems)... so don't go too heavy on that puppy... just snug!

We had rain so heavy today, I-95 came to a stop for 20 minutes (with me in the middle of it)... with all this rain, I'll need a 28 ga skeet gun for the skeeters ;((

Bummer!!

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 00:06:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.47)

Semper Fi!!
Chuck
 

Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 00:25:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.253.150.27)

Though I must say this, don't ask me, I don't make the rules I just try in vain to follow them. Just some issues that should be checked, it may end up solidifying your decision in the end when you finally make a decision. Personally my brain just starts to go into a feed back loop and smoke starts to shoot out my ears when I begin to think about all of this.
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Cowpie, Ca, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 00:50:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.162.44.240)

Bravo,
I can, without a doubt, comply with your state laws. Let me know when, Governor. BTW how did Fla and S.C. do on the HCI report card?

Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 01:00:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.253.150.27)

Out here
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.com>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 01:17:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.114.143)

Upstate and central located. West of Albany on I88 for an hour. Oneonta. A drinking town with a college problem.

For you Baseball fans its a 20 minute drive south of your mecca (aka Cooperstown).

Play Hard!

Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
On duty at the FD till 0800, been here since 0800 HA!, NY, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 01:20:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.242)

1. I found a place that sells 165 Nosler Ballistic Tip ammo for
$12 a box. These rounds work for me as good as the rem. match 168's I
payed $19 for. Anyone have input on the nosler's? Are Federal 168's or 175's really the best? I'm having trouble finding them.

2. I asjusted my trigger as per Pablito's instructions, cept I could not budge the rear engagement screw. I worked around it and set the trigger at 2.5 lbs. Sealed the front screws, and it works great. Is my failure to adjust the engagement screw going to cause a problem?

3. I want a Leuopold Vari X III 8.5-25x50, but the discontinued 8.5-25x40 is now selling for $300 less. Is the 10mm difference worth the extra dough?

Thanks in advance for feedback.

Doug.
Doug Raymer <Doug@vernor.com>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 01:53:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.235.236.47)

Chuck: would it be imposing on others beliefs to tie the personal tax rate mildly to quarterly rifle qualification scores a-la the Swiss? State militia at it's finest!
Freedom for All Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic, formerly known as the, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 01:54:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.200)

The current bid is over 5K...and says the reserve price is not met.... not a good deal in my book. Another question... Are you sure that Springfield scope's guts will stand up to the shock of .50 recoil. I hear stories about scopes getting their innards shaken out of alignment when mounted atop of heavy recoiling rifles.
There are others out here that are way more experienced than I am - but those are questions that cross my mind.

Ken :)

Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 02:51:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)

The Doc is going to do reconstructive surgery on my right one, cut through the bone below the tibial plateau and add bone to the leg to lenghten it, get it straight, and level out the part that is crushed down. I had an MRI done tue. and the cartilage looks like shattered window glass, so there is knee replacement in my future too. But first I have to get the reconstruction done and healed, so it will be spring before I get to go to SMTC again. That's okay, because we have a chance to train together a bunch before we go. And I want to get a AT-1 C-24 before I go. I will know Wednesday all of the dope on the next surgery. Look at the class schedule and see when the next SS I and SS II are. I would'nt mind going through those classes again in prep for SS III. We could shoot for those dates. I'm back in the Gym, I can do most leg work outs, but the pain is intense. Not so bad I can't work through it though. I have to always remember that if I'm going to be stupid, I have to be tough. But, I CANNOT run at all. I tried on the treadmill yesterday...I almost go sucked through...looked like something off of a Jetson's cartoon!!. I can ride a bike though, so I'm doing cardio on a recumbent bike.
 

Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Panama City, Fl, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 03:47:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.73.192)

NO TAXES...go with what the constitution allows......leave my money to me to invest. So, If I'm too stupid to plan ahead for retirement, I DIE!! Plain and simple....Lets sell the concept that an Individual is responsible for himself, that the only thing an individual is "entitled" to is to breath the air on this planet and the god given rights you are born with. The rest you earn. Including citizenship and all the associated rights/responsibility that go with it.

AW, heck, It'll never catch on.
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Darkandwet, Fl, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 04:17:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.73.192)

Those Portugeese receivers I'd like to play with though next to having an actual HK labeled receiver.

Neat thing about the Ca. gun ban(wait there's nothing neat about it!) was that I saw a bunch of guns going through the gun shows and gun shops that were what was left over legal stuff from 89. While much of the HK line was banned in 89 under the RobertiFools gun ban(HK never renamed their guns to become legal again like Colt and others did) the copys and the newer models of HK rifles were still legal. I saw a lot of HK SR9 variants come through along with the Portugeese clone(I'm not sure if it was called the FMP or not), the Federal lead pipe jobbers, the Hesses, and the Special Weapons guns I mentioned. While sad that the guns were being rushed in to beat a bunch of 1/2 brained thought up legislation it was no less neat to see what all was coming through and getting bought up in mass. Of all the guns coming through the Portugeese HK91 clone was the one I saw the least due to availability. It's no wonder I landed the AR10 deal when I had it, I'll upgrade later. Only 308 semi I want now is an M1A but all that's left for me to get is a Bastardized version if that is even allowed anymore. Any of you folks in prarrie dog country want to adopt the squirrel boy? I'm getting so where I can't take much more of this.
 

I linked the page with my squirrel slinging lighting rod from hell. Sometimes I figure after hauling the lead pigeon up a hill, with all that work Murphy has got to jump in and do something totally ironic like kill me with a bolt of lighting. Funny thing is if that actually happened I think I'd be proud to have the tale of those events on my tombstone for all eternity.
B. "Mr. Squirrel" Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Cowpie, Ca, USA - Sunday, Sept thar 03, 2000 at 04:49:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.162.23.194)

The PSG1 (and in my humble opinion most 7.62 semi snipers) is designed for close range multiple target engagements. (FLAME, BRAVO, FLAME)
We've gone over this before and I still think sniping is the domain of the bolt gun, and the PSG1 for paranoids in Black Nomex who think multiple engements with single snipers is a logical or practical way to go.
The 6x Hensolt (sp) that is fixeve g its reciever is an example of this thought process. It gives a relatively wide field of view that allows for quicker tgt acq. In the CF we used to issue the 6x Kahles scope on the Parker Hale C3. What this does is limit you effective engagement and observation range. Now we have the Uerntl (sp again) 10x (same as USMC w/ football dots)

FOOD FOR THOUGHT 1 PSG1 or 3 Jerry Rice Nighthawks DO THE MATH
 

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 07:19:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.140.186)

I was recently shooting long-range in the Tiadaghton State Forest when I was approached by a forest ranger and informed that no one was allowed to shoot targets in any State Forest in PA without their shooting area first being inspected and OK'd by the district forester in charge of that particular State forest. Safety concern was the reason she used.
I was then told the forester in charge of Tiadaghton would never Ok my shooting area because it covered 900 yards, even though I was shooting across a very steep hollow on a natural gas pipeline 30 yards wide. I was told this regulation applied to camp owners with state lease camps also. (Years ago, PA leased small parcels of state owned land to people to build camps on. The leases were for 99 years. Many are expiring, and when the lease expires, the state is not renewing, to the best of my knowledge, and the camps must be removed. If the camp burns down prior to the lease expiration, the lease holder may not rebuild.)Imagine going to deer camp and not being permitted to shoot a few rounds!

Anyway, when I asked if I could HUNT the same area with the same methods, I was told yes!! Needless to say, next time I show up, I will have an orange hat on my head and my license on my back, "hunting coyotes".
 
 
 

bs <bs12345_2000@hotmail.com>
pa, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 10:56:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.174.96.53)

Andy and I went to the range yesterday to confirm zero and get in some practice before the Rendezvous. . Andy's first shots were not even on the paper. I figure he's left one full revolution on his elevation drum again. So he gets on paper and he zero's his drums. Three shots later he's an inch left and low. I figure he's pulling his shots and won't admit it. So, ol' dad takes over and sure enough that rifle would put two in one hole and then send the next three to the other side of the bullseye. Everything was tight and the witness paint was in place so I new it had to be internal to the scope. With no taper to the bases to get hits past 800 yards Andy has had to "put some torque" to the elevation drum to get the come-ups he required. I wonder if he could have damaged the scope in so doing.
On the ride home the mood was pretty blue as we tried to figure what we were going to do between now and the Rendezvous. Andy's Mom noticed his "hang dog" look and asked me what was wrong. When I told her she said, "Well, then get him a new scope." I said, "Do you know what you're saying?" She said, " This is important to him, spend the money." Now that's a SNIPER MOM. I'll be on the phone to Premier Reticle first thing on Tuesday morning (Badger/M3LR).
kmussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifon Spings, New York, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 11:12:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.26)

Mindful of all the recent discussion on this site regarding queers; perhaps if I’d phrased my 308/300 max range question as a scenario involving 2 male characters –both of the persuasion that chooses to make a playground of the human body’s primary sewer- I may have got a greater response :)!!

I’ve missed that opportunity; but perhaps if I explain the reason for my question I may get the answer -and give you a mild insight into firearms licensing iplaye UK:
 
 

As a member of UK Forces I experience only minor difficulties in gaining a license for rifles that I can show I have a ‘good reason’ to own.

Civilians are no different; but the licensing authority (the local police force) may make them jump through a few more hoops [NB. Pistols are totally outlawed for private ownership].

Several police forces set their own extra assessment hoops based on their own hidden anti-gun agendas (and whilst that’s technically illegal, it’s an expensive and protracted business for the man on the street to challenge the police force in court).

What may be considered a ‘good reason’ by one police force might not cut it for another. Thus, your prospects for legal gun ownership may be drastically affected according to which police area you live in.
 
 

If you have ANY criminal conviction you will not be allowed to own firearms (personally, I have no problem with this particular aspect).
 
 

Thus, the reason for my question, an old school friend of mine (who I still talk to despite the fact that he’s a civvy :)) has applied for a license for both a 308 and a 300 Win Mag for deer and target shooting. His local police force have indicated to him that they will be happy to grant the 308 but mention of 300 Win Mag caused sharp intakes of breath all round!

From my perspective this is farcical. They have determined that he poses no threat to public safety if allowed to own and use a 308.

However a 300 would be far too dangerous for him to own!?!
 
 

I feel that this is a facile argument based on an anti’s fear of the word ‘magnum’.
 
 

So, just how much further would a 300 Win Mag go than a 308 if, heaven forbid, it were to be negligently discharged into the air (on the optimum or -in this case- worst trajectory)?
 
 

It’s only going a few hundred fps faster at the muzzle than a 308 of the same bullet weight; logic tells me that the 300 will go further, but I strongly doubt that it’s by very much.
 
 

Anyone know?

Thanks

Matt
 
 
 

Matt <mt@mtwilks.fsnet.co.uk>
UK - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 12:02:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 195.92.67.66)

All of the commentary on the HK cloned recievers is appreciated. I really want to get one in my hands to see if they are worth a damn.
But thanks guys.
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Stillgrayandwet, Fl, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 13:33:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.73.26)

Bravo: At the risk of starting another nightmare thread that will not die, heed well Michael Sheehan's words concerning the Birchers. Research carefully from independent sources. Start with "National Review". Their motives are irrelavent.
 

CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 13:44:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.237.88)

1. A rifle round goes much further than most pepole think. According to the NRA Range Book a 180gr .308 @2610 fps can travel 4166 ft or 2.4 miles a 180gr .300 mag @2900fps can travel 4350 ft or 2.5 miles. MOST well designed ranges will own the impact area and control access to the impact area by signs, flags, fences etc.

2. During hunting season most places require everyone in the woods to wear blaze orange. I dont think we want to make it a rule that everyone must always wear blaze orange in the woods. I currently live next to one of the most popular hunting areas in WV and during rifle season it gets exciting sometimes.

When I go backpacking or on a picnic with my kids I should be free of worry of stray rounds coming off a varmit hunter.

Once upon a time I and another sniper were fishing/camping on the Arkansas river. We eased our boat up to a sandbar, set up camp for the night and were walking around gathering firewood. As we walked we heard the distinctive crack/thump of rifle rounds going past us. We dove for cover thinking we had stumbled on a guarded pot patch. As I lay unarmed behind a log (yes I was wishing that I was packing my CZ) we figured out that some asshole was across the river with his rifle popping shots at the sandbar. It was way too far and the wind was blowing in the wrong direction so we coudn't yell to get his attention. So we lay there, practiced the crack/thump technique and waited for the asshole to stop.

Responsible shooters will restrict thier shooting to designated ranges or places where they can observe the impact area such as on a prarie. If you want to assume that the impact area is safe you go right ahead, I won't. Murhpy's range law says that if it is down range and can be shot, it will be shot. With the anti-hunters and antigunners we must always practice safe shooting habits even if it means we are inconvienenced a little.

BS from PA. You were shooting next to an ABOVE GROUND natural gas pipeline? Dude...

Out here
gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 14:11:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.115.17)

"Now that's a SNIPER MOM."... that's a REAL mom!
Most just don't make the cut... :(

Right on, Andy's Mom!

Call Premier in the morning, and tell them your situation with the match (Premier reads this site), and you will have it on Wed, or Thurs. Premier is great about service.
Order a Badger one piece tapered base at the same time, or you won't have enough elevation to strike the long targets. (been there, done that... it sucks!).
 

Matt...

To say you didn't get an answer to your question because it wasn't phrased about "queers", shows a major lacking on your part... both in manors, and in knowledge of what this site is about... you probably didn't get an answer, because it's been answered about a dozen times, and it gets REAL old.

None the less... the 308 is good for about 5000 yards, the 300 Win, for about 6000 yards.

Now, do you really think that the British police are going to give your friend a second permit because "YOU" saw this on our web-site... I think NOT. The police simply don't want your friend to have his second toy... and he'll have to live with it, or move.
You English are supposed to have fine manors (compared to us American "Uncuth-nicks). If you post again, try using some.

Bravo...
Dude-ski, take well, and head advice given you by other Rosterfarians... pass on them "Birch" puppies.
You might as well send your name to the FBI, and say... "Put me on your Whacko list, and watch me (and my children) forever".
 

"Chainsaw"...
Give 'em hell Dude!

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 14:31:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.47)

As for target shooting, the .300 is much less affected by winds at 1,000 yards and beyond (1,100 to 1,200 meters). Mention the National Matches at Bisley, patriotic flag-waving, etc.

CDC, try www.specialoperations.com or www.ittnv.com

Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 14:41:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.214.146)

Hey here in the mountains of NY I wpould give a testicle for a 900meter range but the fact is between terrain and the local gun sissy population my twins will never be seperated. Finding a long D range that covers your butt for safety issues isn't as much fun as finding a hillside to pound the daylights outta but hey it's better than breakin rocks into soap powder in Leavenworth for an accidental sub MOA group in sombody's honey.

As for the Ranger, well is suspect he doesn't like it anymore than you do, but feeding his kids is based on doin what some technocrat tells him to.

I kinda like the question on the .308 vs the .300WM distance thing. Me, I own a .300wm and like it but I hear a lot of guys talking about the .308's. Details are always good to know.

Play Hard!

Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
A very anti gun college town in upstate, NY, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 14:44:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.99.161)

The definition of militia is pretty vague but the behavior isn't, nor will the establishments response to your affiliation.

I have seen it written here before and would like to re-emphasize that not too far away from being like the Latin states due south of here and we don't want to piss of the "Heffe"(Patron) or you'll find yer hut burnin down around ya. Of course this has all been metaphorically intended.........HA! and all that.

Brothers, the best most effective weapon I had with me as an operator was my brain and its ability to function. Look into your cerebral arsenal before you engage the hardware.

If its a felling of belonging you're looking for of a sense of mutual beleif and interest, then I suggest you stay in touch with these guys here. Share ideas, information and theory intelligently with like minded folk, go to the Storm Mountain shoot to commune with the Gods, but stay away from the gangs,OOPs I mean clubs, OOPs again, I mean the militias.

Of course this is MY opinion and hope yours (whatever it is) is as strong.

Playin Hard and keeping my guns and my wits about me!

Mars

OH, AND DID I MENTION; VOTE.....VOTE .....VOTE!!!!!!!!!!
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Livin like I want no attention from the G-MAN or the really over zealous Troopers in , NY, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 15:12:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.99.161)

Calm yourself! Re-read my post, the queer reference was a joke (hence the little smiley face! :) Try decaf! (that's a little joke too! :))

Others, particularly Gooch;

Thanks -about 1/10 of a mile difference -not much is it?

Matt

PS

'lito, if you've had your decaf; it's 'manners' not 'manors' :)

All the best!
Matt
 

Matt <mt@mtwilks.fsnet.co.uk>
UK - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 15:20:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 195.92.67.66)

Kevin of the North: what flames? You said "most", which means you obviously were exluding the M-25, and "close range", which I'm assuming you mean 800 or so yards. Hey, we agree! ;-)

Kevin of the not quite that far North: Now THAT'S a woman! Other than her and CDC's lovely wife, I've not seen that aspect of femininity.

As for free-fire in national forests, we were in one once in North Texas. A great bunch of guys, one would set targets up along game trails, and it was kind of like IPSC, only with rifles. Well, along we go, and rounds start coming through the trees about head to chest height, luckily nobody hit on the first round, we all dropped by the next. Shots were fired into a hillside to let whoever know we were down there, to no avail. The group split, flanked, and surrounded the guy, who had just pulled his van off the dirt road and was firing "into the trees", not knowing there was a game trail (and us) behind them. His attitude was really bad, when told that he could have hit someone, his response was "yeah, well I didn't hit anyone, did I." So one of my amigos who legally had a M-11 put 32 rounds over him and his van in about 1.5 seconds. The guy hit the ground and tried to roll under the van. When the firing stopped, he asked "what the hell was that???" to which he got "well, I didn't hit you did I?". HA!

As for myself, I've got a 10 foot backstop bulldozed up, about 150 yards wide. That's the backstop on my no-vegitation 1000+ very flat range. And nothing but possibly grazing cows behind the backstop for miles. Safe and secure!

Oh, and Mars: my pistol purchases aren't called into the FBI, I'm immune from that, and the waiting periods also. Cash and carry legally, with no S/N's noted and such ;-)
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic, formerly known as the, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 15:49:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.187)

Jesse
McBain <Mcbain@hotmail.com>
AZ, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 15:59:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.67.96.95)

Do you think the heavier recoil will hurt the ACOG any? It is the mil issue TA01NSN.

Just a temp thing until I get the $700 for the leupold.
Gen BloodBath McGrath (LOL) <jkmcgrath@home.com>
Springfield, MO, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 16:33:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.255.84)

See any of you hogs that are heading for storm....

Out and hittin' da road

Ken :)
Ken Hunter <ken@hunters.org>
storm mountain, bound...., USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 17:06:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.39)

Larue is at http://larue-targets.com/index.html. Hope this helps.

Pat T
Pat T <patidwelljr@juno.com>
Upland, Ca, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 17:21:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.27.109.160)

Other than Westchester county and NYC there is no waiting period here either but darn it all we do have all the other crap. However depending on your local judge conceal carry (loaded) all the time and anywhere except at a few institutions and of course the Westchester co. and NYC places is a given. In plain english, NY isn't too bad yet regarding the pistolas. Rifles and shotguns are kind of a gimme as well.

Of course thats until the current first Lady(?) came along. If you're a NY'er Charles Schummer the liberal, totally no gun for the citizen Democrat from Long Island isn't the only one who wants your gun. Hillary and Chuck want to make NY the national leader in gun control standards and are going to use the NYC pattern of NO GUNS if we have our way about things policy platform to get it. Of course most people probably assume NYC is representitive of the rest of the state and if that were the case I would probably be all for tough stuff on guns. Fact is when you get north of Westchester its a lot like the boonies. Ya know the Catskills the Adirondaks etc.....

VOTE, say NO to HILLARY and help me keep my guns and the right to get another when I wear this one out.

Also, perhaps a good stock tip might be to find the company who is making barrels that is listed on the NASDAQ or wherever cause when the mandatory ballistics signature laws start finger printing your over the counter naildriver, the parts guy is gonna have a lot of business in replacements.

Welcome to the new world order folks. First the "Euro" starts to melt the individual sanctity of the European states and next the WTO has the USA cow-towing to the likes of some third world hole in the wall who doesn't like our policy on abortion .....or whatever. With this kind of crap being supported by the politicians WE (maybe not you or me) have elected, it should be no surprise your guns are yours only as long as people like Tipper Gore say they are. Remember the "V chip?" That was Tippers baby and fundamentally it meant that since you can't keep your kid from watching MTV we'll do it for you.

Ok. Suddenly the sexual orientation of my neighbor becomes one of the lesser evils in my day to day life. Of course thatis until he/ she is being dumb around my kids.

Problems, problems, problems, Ain't this a great game?

Playin for Keeps!

Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
No waiting period here in Northern, NY, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 17:34:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.88.23)

FN Special Police Rifle, .308 Win, Controlled round feed, 3 position safety, detachable 4 rnd box magazine, 26" heavy barrel with chrome plated bore, corrosion resistant finish, H-S Precision Pro-Series Stock

Sound a little like a Winchester/Browning hybrid (3 position safety and controlled round feed; some Brownings use detachable 4 rnd box magazine, most Winchesters dont have detachable mags)? Not sure if FN still owns Winchester and Browning. Jerry's is asking $694.50 w/FFL. Would this be an alternative to the beloved Rem. 700P? (It's in the same price range.)
Gerry <gerryc@teleport.com>
Portland, OR, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 18:18:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.26.9.100)