Not only THAT, I am the designated driver! WTF I said again! Got another 'look' and was advised that I could pay for a cab???? Hello no, I'll stay off the juice rather than pay that bill. So much for watching the John Wayne marathon.
So, before I go up and take my weekly shower, and try to find my suit, I want to wish all the Hawgs a happy, safe and prosperous New Year.
For all you dudes headed overseas, kick some booty for the Boltster. And, if any are still left standing, send em over here so we can have some practice on movers. May your aim be true and your fire support be accurate.
Ho hum, Boltster out until next year!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 00:47:51 (ZULU)
Well that takes care of the field trial!! LOL! We had spoken before and I knew you hunted them hard... looking like another black rifle on the horizon. How are the WSM conversions going?
CDC,
I think Rick and Charles can handle this one.
Bill Moore <lmalterna@aol.com>
Goodview, Va, USA USA USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 01:26:28 (ZULU)
Undude - Checking for a contact in your area of A'stan. will you have net access there? And don't worry, you'll still be an ...... :-) one other request man. You can pick up ancient British Enfields over there for next to nothing. Import into the US is a nothing as it is an antique arm. No letters, licenses, nothing. Think of a prisintine 1845 Enfield left by the Brits in their bad days of A'stan taming.
Pat - Your results are similar to ours, we use the 5000.00 plus ones and get the same results as the 450.00 littel ones. Just can't hook it to a computer, GPS, measure angles, heights, widths, multiple distances with distance bewteen and height of object together. But then again who reallyneeds all that stuff. Opps, forget it helps in CAS. :-) We still recommended that the SO community buy off self a bunch for that teams going into the hole. Another big plus is that the little ones are actually little and don't weight this side of heavy.
Cold weather shooting - another reason for jamming and freezing, and I know you hunters know about this, is snow getting into and going through the melt freeze cycle in the locking lug channel. Open bolt in a heavy snow storm and leave it open for just a bit and you have a new style blockage when you close the bolt.
Recon Delta - As much as it grieves me to agree with Ken M., I would go with the KBar. Carried on for way to long and it never failed me. I could chop kindling, dig a cat hole, skin a chicken, hell I might even have been able to stick someone. However, I always favored lopping off their freakin head wihtout ever having to touch the pricks. Reason I carried a slightly bigger machette. :-)
WEll, have a Happy New Year and may peace and harmony be your way, if not then shoot the prick that spoiled it for you.
Besides, my imaginary friend told me that all you guys are not right in the head!
Hold hard Guys
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 02:07:59 (ZULU)
If you look it up you'll see that I was in on the "kill 'em all" thread beginning Sept 12 of 2001 and I've been on it absolutely every time it has come up. It was stupid then and it's stupid now.
If someone posts something crazy and it isn't responded to, it looks like we all buy into it. That includes the "dehumanized-by-the-military, steely-eyed, captain-kung-foo killer" childishness.
Was all that okay with you, or should I ask your permission before I post?
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 03:04:51 (ZULU)
Glow in the dark stuff that fade out in about 12 / 14 years.
The old dial a yield Thermos used Tritium Gas but alas after
The Tritium decayed no Fusion!
So today we use Lithium Hydride a very long lasting solid
that under the infulence of a Fission reaction gives off plenty of Tritium.
Years ago the Ruskies detonated a guestimated 100 Megaton
Hydrogen device in a place called Novia Zemlia ( New Land ).
Above the Artic circle.
A lot of Novia Zemlia evaporated.This stunt got our attention in a hurry!
Steve from New Joisey
Steven Dzupin <sdzupin@optonline.net>
Wayne, New Joisey, US of A - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 03:43:58 (ZULU)
Damn, Rick agreed with me. Better bust out all the green gear and be ready at 2359, the end is near;-) S/F...Ken M
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
occupied people's republic of IL, USA(sorta) - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 04:06:34 (ZULU)
To those who stand in Harm's way, a special wish for God to watch your 6.
May all your shots be hits!
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
- Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 04:48:50 (ZULU)
Thanks a bunch, you guys are always a big help
Happy New Year, everyone!
Andrew T <andrewt@email.arizona.edu>
Tucson, AZ, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 05:16:49 (ZULU)
For the record, I'm not saying anything about being "dehumanized". That's usually a load of bilge from someone who just wants to snivel. Rick, I'll have to agree with you on that one, I'm a rectal orifice because I was born that way, and have had almost five decades to perfect it. I've tried to change, (once) but finally accepted it and revel in it. Helps when I'm dancing with some tweaker/huffer/junkie in an alley on the West Side. Dirty Steve can attest to the fact that I am comfortable being one. Anyway, all wit aside, you be careful over there. Come home safely to all you love, and all you other guys have a Happy New year. Another shift over, I'm going home to Boudicca.....
Charles S. Hunt <dpms223@aol.com>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 05:27:39 (ZULU)
"I think Rick and Charles can handle this one."- I was refering to their question of what was said/intended concerning testosterone levels. Exchanges on a public forum that get personal are hard to get over.
"Was all that okay with you, or should I ask your permission before I post?" - I love your irony, considering how much energy you expend jumping others for posting their opnions...
Funny thing is, if you look back I have sent you numerous emails over the years thanking you for your help and your time here on the Roster. Lately though, you spend time making snide personal barbs questioning peoples rights to have, post and discuss their opinions.
You are a valuable contributer to this sight and I am not. I came here to learn and stayed because it feels like home. So I am done with this exchange, if I insulted your pride, feel free to retaliate- the floor is yours. I will NOT respond here. If you want anything else from me, put it in email.
You have mail- no attachments.
I have made contacts, acquaintences and friends here. My thanks to all that have helped me. My apologies to all I have bored. My prayers for everyone of you.
Ken, Marius, Sarge, PeteR- If I am out of line, call in the fire mission and I will lurk. I apologize for the bandwidth.
Later,
Bill Moore
lmalterna@aol.com
Bill Moore <lmalterna@aol.com>
Goodview, Va, USA USA USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 05:47:38 (ZULU)
How can a person do something dehumanizing? If Im a human doing some thing to another human how could something make either one of us less human? This excludes the French of course. Dehumaninzing is a term for the PC crowd. A persons actions can be violent, cruel or both but they can not be dehumanized unless they ar turned in to the French or a monkey.
Mike, stay safe.
Bolt, your suit is probably keeping the dog warm. Be sure and take him a blanket when you get the suit. My mutts knock on the door when they think its time to come in.
I fitted my Bar-Sto barrel today (it was a semi-drop in;I shortened the hood lenght) and function tested it on a cactus that was charging my sheep. Functioned well, now friday I will test for accurracy. I did place 4 nice shots on the cactus at 15 yds. You avid hnter should try shooting these critters. Theys tuffer and more plentifull in these parts.
Dirty Steve, out.
Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, US of A - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 05:51:58 (ZULU)
It's definately gonna be an interesting year. In spite of my posts to the contrary, I know this country has the resources to prevail no matter how bad things get. My beef is our "civilian leadership" may have been spoiled by recent excursions where we just roll over opponents with ease (Mog excepted of course). If we go, and shit hits the fan, I wanna be assured that 1) we're in it thick or thin and 2) we avenge our losses with resolve, not "diplomatic" solutions...I watch trends, and I am not convinced we have the national mind-set in place yet for anything, let alone a two front war. I know our troops are ready. Hell, there's hundreds of PFCs heading to Rick's school in 3-5 years in our divisional units now; and our JAAT capability is something to behold. My concerns are in logistics--if I am gonna be a Log-toad I am gonna be a good one. Once the basic load is shot, who gets the next boatload? And while we are winning - holding-winning, will our resolve hold during the "hold" phase? Or have we convinced ourselves as a nation that any casualties are equal to military disaster?
The army's infinite wisdom in shifting CS/CSS to the reserve was in fact brilliant. It assures small town america's connection to any major effort by default--from day one. A lesson learned from LBJ's little excursion of containment almost four decades ago. When we go in big, we go in with mom, dad, aunt, uncle...and now "support" is a more visceral experience to joe citizen. Not a bad idea really.
As for cold weather operations; there's alot to consider beyond weapons function. Just bagging out in the TAA has its hazards. Your breath's condensation will freeze the bags zipper. A real pain in the ass when you gotta piss, down right deadly during an attack. Sleeping with your commo batteries is an option, but leaking lithium has taken lives during training. And hydration is usually overlooked in the cold, and when you realize it bit you--your water is in solid state uselesness. Now, some units train specifically for these conditions and have fantastic institutional knowledge. If you're in charge of anything, I suggest a quick browse of the CARLL (Center for ARmy Lessons Learned) library. Alot of what you'll find there is in "problem, discussion, solution" format and some is relevant to cold ops. I imagine I'm not alone in sifting through this stuff...
From personal experience--the firing pin was my achilles heel in Alaska. Getting that dry was paramount, and graphite was my choice for lube. It worked to really effin' cold, but ultimately locked up later in the night. I dried the pin, but neglected the encasing bolt channel--and the little oil left prevented ingition at about -70F. Rick's description of locking lugs freezing is also a consideration I never dealt with. One thing suggested, keeping rounds warm in pockets, may cause problems with instant condensation once they are employed in the cold ass air. Kinda like licking a flagpole in Fairbanks. Maybe cold-soaked is better (my bullets were as cold as I was). I'd bet 10th group knows the answer to that one.
And for the record, if we get pasted into a three front corner (my scenario a few days ago)--we make great friends with the russians and use their lift assets pronto. Afterwards, we direct dollars their way.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 06:14:14 (ZULU)
Get in touch with Geoff (he posts from time to time). He really did a quality job on his stick, with advice from all over the roster.
And Geoff,
Maybe you could do an article on your "lesson learned" from your paint job! Tips and techniques and all that...
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 06:25:25 (ZULU)
Happy New Year..
Dirty Steve, OUt
Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, US of A - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 06:52:43 (ZULU)
Bill Moore: "I love your irony, considering how much energy you expend jumping others for posting their opnions...Lately though, you spend time making snide personal barbs questioning peoples rights to have, post and discuss their opinions."
Maybe so, but I don't see it. A statement like that should be supported with chapter and verse proof. And context is everything. The Tupperware vs 1911 fiasco sounds much different if you start at the beginning and read both sides.
I admit that I do treat with immediate and open contempt the suggestion that the US should exterminate whole populations. If assertions like that are not challenged, we all look like brainless kooks.
Due, no doubt, to a lack of testostrone, I thought it would be better to liberate the Afghans than to incinerate them. The same holds for the Iraquis, Iranians, etc.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 11:17:02 (ZULU)
"I was the 3rd enlisted swine to qualify as a pilot on Trieste."
I guess you could call that at diesel boat.....That ranks with astronaut in my book. Welcome.
Ref: Cold Weather Ops.
For extreme cold a vapor barrier in the sleeping bag is needed. It's not very comfortable but you've got to keep the water vapor from your body from reaching the outside cold where it will condense and then freeze. This process will eventually reduce your sleeping bag into a block of ice and slush. Nothing sucks as bad as ops. in arctic conditions. Survival from the environment takes more work than actually fighting. The wife's uncle is one of the Chosin Few. He talks of walking past Chinese troops that had been force marched into blocking positions the night before and had sweated through their quilted cotton uniforms. They were all dieing from hypothermia and were unable to pull a trigger. The cold will kill you quicker than any enemy. The soldier's load in arctic conditions exceeds the ridiculous. I did an exercise at Ft. Drum years ago with my battalion from the 101st. We were aggressed by a USMC reserve unit. They had tracks and we had snow shoes. It is good to have tracks. We got creamed and were glad when it was over.
Ref: SWAT/Sniper Symposium
Rick....you going this year?
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 11:36:44 (ZULU)
1 Does anyone know a load for a 300 winmag. using a 125gr ballistic
tip and either R15 or 4831sc.
2 Is it possible to get 30cal accelorator heads to load.
Thanks, if Ive done something wrong by asking please let me know and I wont do it again!
keith cutler <keith.cutler2@btopenworld.com>
oundle, cambs, UK - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 13:26:00 (ZULU)
Anyway this is just a heads up. My wish for 2003 is for this puke that is sending out these viruses to open his front door someday soon, and a small hole appear in the front of his shirt.
Anyone need any help with painting a rifle, let me know. I do alot of painting of stuff for drilling rigs, and know alot about what paints work, and work well.
Happy new year.
John <one338winmag@hotmail.com>
Liberty, TX, - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 14:10:03 (ZULU)
If you are referring to sabots in .30 cal., I've tried them with .224 diameter bullets with piss poor results in .308. A waste of powder IMHO. 5 inch "patterns" was the best I got out of a 20" barrel. Some would say that the 20" part was the first problem. :)) Also, if you're not aware, watch the case capacities, to little is as bad as to much occasionally. Depending on powder burn rate, primer considerations and phase of the blue moon. :)))
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 14:42:36 (ZULU)
You have mail. N/A
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 14:50:03 (ZULU)
You have mail. N/A
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 14:54:57 (ZULU)
youse gots mail mang. N/A
Hawgs, Masters, Nobility, Patrons, Rosterfarians and Council memebers,
Happy New Year guys. Best wishes to all for a prosperous and fruitful new year.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 15:31:53 (ZULU)
I've sent emails to the 2 ISPs that were listed as having the infected email pass through them. Got another 2 this morning. Interestingly one was marked with an address that I haven't had any contact with, but the header showed it had come from Bolt! I know you haven't sent it out of malice, Bolt, but it may be worth running a virus check on your PC. The header also said that the message originated from spkndslgw3poole30.spkn.uswest.net ([63.227.100.30] before going through Bolt. This last address is the same as the originator for Marco's suppossed message (it came from there before going to the address I posted the other day that both CDC and I had viruses from).
The other virus I had today had completely different addresses in the headers.
All the Best
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 15:48:37 (ZULU)
You have email, no attachments. I've sent the details of the message. It maybe worth complaining to the ISP. If enough of us do it they may move on it.
All the Best
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 16:05:25 (ZULU)
Man o man, have you checked the prices on 20 round AR10 mags lately? Hell, I thought the M14 mags were expensive. Costs damn near 30 bucks to even have a M14 mag coverted to AR10. I reckon it's like buying a big boat, if you can afford the boat, you can afford the gas.
Did a full virus update and scan last night. No viri were present. Haven't sent an email to any of the Hawgs for a couple of weeks. Complaining to an ISP about this dude/dudes would be like when I complained to my ex's OD/GYN for giving her a diaphram that was too small causing her to get pregnated on our honeymoon. Made me feel good to complain, but didn't mean nothin.
WANT TO BUY.......
Comination 308 bolt/308 semi/223 semi gun. Must function reliably with all available mags and ammo. Must shoot <=.5 moa under all weather conditions, must have rangerfinder for 2000 yards +/- 1', and must be able to self adjust for wind.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 16:08:28 (ZULU)
Kevin (Andy's Dad)
>>>"I was the 3rd enlisted swine to qualify as a pilot on Trieste."
I guess you could call that at diesel boat.....That ranks with astronaut in my book. Welcome.<<<
Well, kinda sorta... The diesels weren't 'onboard' as typical, but we did have diesel-generators to recharge the batteries. I was also on 3 'regular' diesel subs.
As for astronaut, they deal with a 14.7 lb. differential when they go from here to there. At 20k ft. depth, it is 9,000 lb. differential. Not to pat my back or belittle the astronauts, they have a hell of a lot of things to consider such as the gravitational pull from other celistial bodies...
Bolt,
>>>Comination 308 bolt/308 semi/223 semi gun. Must function reliably with all available mags and ammo. Must shoot <=.5 moa under all weather conditions, must have rangerfinder for 2000 yards +/- 1', and must be able to self adjust for wind.<<<
When you find it, I want one TOO!!!
As for the AR10 20 rd. mags, I bought 5 - 20 rounders when I bought the rifle at $50 each (AR10-T). I also have a few M14/M1A USGI mags I collected when I had one of those, that I have not had converted yet. From the sounds of what it costs now, maybe I should get them done before it gets any worse...
I would also like to wish EVERYBODY a Happy, Healthy & SAFE New Year, particularly those who care for us and protect us. I wish everyone of our guys could be home safe with their loved ones.
Larry
Larry J. Porter <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the panhandle, Texas, US of A - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 18:08:54 (ZULU)
Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
- Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 18:13:30 (ZULU)
You ever up in CT at the Sub Base in Groton? That's where I work as a firefighter. Just wondering.
Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
- Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 18:16:53 (ZULU)
Rob01
>>>Larry, You ever up in CT at the Sub Base in Groton? That's where I work as a firefighter. Just wondering.<<<
Yes, I went through there back in late 1961. DAMN, that's been a loonnggg time! Was also back once in 1962 for torpedo tube certification after a yard period/overhaul in Charleston.
George Gardner - GAPrecision web site - fubar. It says it is loading, loads and stops.
Larry
Larry J. Porter <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the panhandle, Texas, US of A - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 18:55:42 (ZULU)
Fred
Fred Hartman <beartooth46@hotmail.com>
Toledo, Ohio, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 18:57:37 (ZULU)
Joe Mahon,
Do you have a link for the CARLL site? I was up in New England for Christmas. I wondered about several cold / wet / freezing issues as I watched the storm turn from rain, then to freezing rain and hail, and finally snow (with plenty of wind to boot). Saw lots of downed trees and limbs, too. A good reminder to look up regularly as some of those things will leave a mark if they landed on you.
On another subject, I took my M1A and AR-15 to the range a couple of weeks ago to practice with the iron sights. My AR-15 (when using a scope)is more accurate than the M1A, however, with the iron sights the M1A groups were tight while the AR-15 groups weren't groups, they were patterns. Anyone else prefer the M1A irons to the AR? Maybe I need glasses.
Steve <stevesix@hotmail.com>
ampa Bay, FL, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 19:04:42 (ZULU)
Larry, maybe I was too subtle, I was refering to the boyancy fill. Wasn't it diesel fuel or something like it?
Ref: MGM Targets
I just got back from the range after shooting up my new MGM IPSC w/hostage target, great material and workmanship. All the M4 did was chip the paint.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 19:45:19 (ZULU)
Just checked out the web site and 10 rounders are less than 1/2 the price of 20's. Seems that these would be good for fixed position/prone with the 20's as an option for moving/ contact breaking. Anyone have an idea on what pouches work for the 10 rounders? Everything I have is designed for 20's.
Happy New Year, those of you travelling east, be careful and come home.
Steve Burris <skylar.burris@gte.net>
NOVA, VA, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 20:18:00 (ZULU)
It seems that I did a real crappy job composing my prior post about the subject. Since I was the one who brought it up, I'll try and clear up what I was trying to say, and then shut up about it for all time. I sometimes have a difficult time transfering my thoughts to the written word, but judging by mail responses at least a few understood my statements. This goes out to those who didn't, especially Rick and CDC, who voiced their opinions.
Sometimes, when people either don't understand or simply disagree with an idea or a statement, they quickly label it "psychobabble". Let me assure you that dehumanization of the enemy is taught (or was on my watch) to many of the men in our Armed Forces who might be called upon to destroy (possibly) millions at the press of a button, without questioning the order. The guys that are in the missle silos, in the submarines, flying with the nuclear payloads, etc. are all tested and then reinforced as to their ability to carry out their mission.
What do you think Hitler did with the SS? Their enemies were seen as non-human creatures. Why do you think that such a large segment of their population went blindly about their business while an entire race of people were being exterminated? How do you think the Waffen SS troops were able to execute POW's, slaughter Russian peasants, and torture people in the death camps. Did you ever see the propaganda films shown to the German populace from 1933 onward, or the Hitler Youth and SS indoctrination films and literature?
How about the chemical-biological experiments the Japanese performed upon US & Brit prisoners, as well as the population of Manchuria, or the slave labor camps where they starved captured enemy troops to death? The Japanese warrior class were indoctrinated with the belief that all other life forms (other than Japanese) were of a lower form, and therefore expendable.
Granted, we are much, much more subtle in our approach, but it's done just the same. " Look at it as saving your country and your loved ones". "Don't dwell upon the imaginary images of the women and children that you will cause to perish, visualize your friends and family". "Can you put aside your emotions for the sake of your Country?" Also things a bunch less direct than these examples, but effective just the same. Remember those old b&w anti- communist propaganda films that they used to show, even in the elementary schools in the fifties? Replace syphillis and gonoreahha in the old VD training films with Communism and you'll have some idea.
If you don't want to label this dehumanization, then don't. Feel free to call it something else if you will , but don't deny its existance or its use. And yes, it does effect those who have experienced it, at least to some degree. Basically, a little (or a lot) of it rubs off. Some call it being calloused or hardened, or being numbed. Que sera?
One thing for sure, don't anyone EVER think that by my explanation of this that I'm using this as an excuse for the actions or lack of well being on ANYBODY's behalf, including my own! FYI, after a very sucessful career in Gov't. and business I was able to retire very comfortably four years ago at the age of fifty two, still married to a great gal after twenty eight years, and have two terrific grandkids. So please don't jump to any conclusions or read between the lines on my behalf!
I hope that this made my previous post more clear. Oh, and CDC - "It isn't a question of race". It never was. It's a question of survival. Note which group I omitted in the examples that I gave.I can in no way put myself in your position, but you're showing that your heart's on your sleeve.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 20:27:43 (ZULU)
what generally causes the better groups with an M1A is the longer sight radius. The AR15 has a VERY short sight radius, so even a small mis-alighnment will throw you way off target. Many of the guys go to space guns to lengthen the sight radius on AR's when the service rifle sights get to be too hard to shoot.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 20:29:49 (ZULU)
Well folks it's finally happened! We at SC want all you hogs, hoggettes, dudes, undudes, posters, lurkers, catshooters etc to listen up!!
Clear you calenders for the week-end of June 6-8, 2003! SC is going to have a MATCH at BadLands Tactical Training Facility in Grandfield, Oklahoma! Some of you have asked for this...well you've got it!!!
We couldn't have found a better facility that is about as centered in the U.S. as you can get!!
Some details will follow over the next while but if you think you're going to get any MATCH details....FORGET IT!! Besides this is about all we've decided at this point!! Wanted you folks getting ready!!!
My best advice at this point is...be prepared for anything!!!
Hee, Hee!!
More to follow!!
Sniper Country Staff
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 21:04:16 (ZULU)
Just back from the range and headed to bed. Graveyard...has it's advantages. Like NO ONE on the range, but me.
Larry and Kevin,
Trieste used aviation fuel 115/145(purple)for buoyancy. If I remember correctly,it was 66,018 gallons. We DID NOT smoke anywhere near her and she had to be "defumed" for about 72 hours when we brought her back aboard the White Sands (ARD-20).
Amazing I can remember all that shit after damn near thirty years...
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Bldogett, OR, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 21:25:55 (ZULU)
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
occupied people's republic of IL, USA(sorta) - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 21:27:17 (ZULU)
Kevin (Andy's Dad)
Trieste used approx. 86k gallons of HIGH octane AV gas for floatation.
Larry
Larry J. Porter <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the panhandle, Texas, US of A - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 21:28:05 (ZULU)
Now here's a subject I'm somewhat good at. Well, I was complimented on it a few times, anyway. I'll keep this as breif as possible. E-mail me if you have any questions.
First a few questions. Is the stock wood or plastic? Is the metal glossy blued or dull? In what environment will it see the most need for camo?
Stock- The stock will have to prepped to take whatever paint you will use. If it's plastic, clean it with a rag and some alcohol or acetone(don't go crazy with the acetone). Then let it completely dry.
Wood is trickier, if it is varnished, the paint may scratch off easily. If it is not varnished, be sure it wasn't treated with some type of oil (tung/linseed, etc.)because these will eventually bleed through and cause the paint to peel.
Whichever you have, you will need to do a light sanding. This will gave the paint some "traction". Be sure to round off any sharp edges or the paint will migrate away from them. Once sanded, reclean with chosen cleaner and let dry.
Metal- You can prep and paint the gun as a whole or you do it apart. I done mine apart, looks more professional. Prep the metal with cleaner(acetone or lacquer thinner)and let dry. If the metal is glossy, give it a very light sanding(you only want to rough it up, scratches should be barely visible)and clean again thoroughly. If it's dull, just clean it. Let it completely dry.
Paint- Here's the part that requires the most thought. You'll have to pay attention to the instructions on the label and use it in good weather. WEATHER CAN BE A BIG FACTOR. Paint doesn't like cold and it certainly doesn't like moisture. Don't paint on days that are cold, rainy, or humid. Be sure to use a good primer coat that is suitable for metal and plastic/wood. Use several light coats and let dry. Primer color really doesn't matter if you are going to use just spray paints.
The environment in which you will need the camo the most will determine the paint scheme. I like to look at the area I'll be in and any specifics involved. Take the most common color and this will be the base coat. Paint the entire gun with this color. Then find the second most common color and make broad, blending stripes with it. Pick out the third color and use lesser stripes or spots. Be careful not to make a distinct pattern, the colors should blend.
If you will use it in specific areas like bushes, rocks, or trees, paint it like the inside of the bush or the side of the tree or the edge of the rocks where you will be hiding. Just use the technique above to pick out the colors.
I use Testor's Model Master military sprays. They have a big range of colors to chose from and are made for plastic. You can get them from model shops and hobby stores. Otherwise, you'll have to rely on DIY or paint stores.
Taping off- I would tape the trigger mechanism and scope if you want to paint the scope. I removed my scope and painted the rings and bases. Stuff a rag in the receiver,chamber,and magazine. Paint only the exposed portions of the bolt. You can do this with the bolt in the receiver so as not to paint unnessesary parts. DO NOT paint any part of the gun that slides or moves. The paint can become gummy or bind the part.
Sorry for the long post, hope this helps.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 21:28:21 (ZULU)
Wes, I think you may remember better than me... However, I don't recall it being purple. I sometimes get confused about the quantity as the old boats carried 186k gals. fuel (problem caused by 'No longer give a shit...'). I still have my enlisted AND officer qualifications notebooks from Trieste, however. When I was on her, she was the Trieste II, you were on her earlier I suspect (Trieste) as you referenced the White Sands. That is SEVERAL years before me. When I first went aboard, we had no 'mother' ship and just threw a tow-line on anything that would drag us to sea. Later, we had the USS Point Loma (a civilian version of an LSD used to replentish the 'Dew Line' when it existed). Towards the end of Trieste, we were the only ones using that particular AV gas octane and it may have contributed to our demise, although we were horribly expensive to operate for many reasons.
Sorry fer tha long post, I know this ain't "Sub Country."
Larry
Larry J. Porter <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the panhandle, Texas, US of A - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 21:41:08 (ZULU)
Thanks for the reply. I know the M1A has a longer sight radius, I just didn't think it would make that big of a difference but apparently it does.
The whole sight picture just seems better on the M1A. I thought it might be that the rear sight was further from my eye but I checked and the distance seems about the same for the M1A and the AR.
Anyway, I'm happy I can still shoot the M1A with irons. There's just something about that rifle I really like. As for the AR, no space gun for me at this time. I do have an IOR 6 X 42 tactical scope with an MP 8 reticle that'll fix that problem as soon as I get a descent mount for it. The IOR scope is sweet; solid, bright optics, good price too. Maybe overkill for the AR though.
Steve <stevesix@hotmail.com>
Tampa Bay, FL, USA - Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 22:41:48 (ZULU)
Roger that....can't wait.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 00:19:05 (ZULU)
Dittos on paint not liking bad weather. Moisture will cause paint to blush or go flat. Temps under 50 degrees will cause it to not cure, and "slide off". I had this happen on a building once. What a mess.
Just me $00.02 worth.
John <one338winmag@hotmail.com>
Liberty, TX, - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 00:22:56 (ZULU)
Can anyone help please?I cant seem to get the formula straight.
vel:2852,2835,2849,2820,2821,2835.
The use of a hammer usually makes instructions make more sense so I'll go and get one to adjust the calc with while I wait for an answer.
Thanks guys.
out
G.W
Edited after web search,13.46,right?the old hammer trick always fixes the problem,if somethin is fubar you dont have to assemble it,you bin it.
Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 01:44:52 (ZULU)
Paint it. When it scrapes off, paint it again. No permanent damage.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 02:02:02 (ZULU)
Many ballistic programs will give all the above.
HDR
HDR <hprudisell@aol.com>
OK, - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 03:32:22 (ZULU)
Happy new years you all!
Andrew - Just put tape on what you don't want to paint and have a ball. Don't get technical about it and you will find that if you don't like what you have, then pain it again. Our students will change color scheme a couple times during the course without any real problems. The uglier it looks the better it will probably work. :-)
Ken M. - Actually bud been agree ing wiht a bunch of your posts, just didn't want to admit it. :-)
Steve - Becareful now, my last name is Boucher and that is butcher in French. Lived there for a spell and am third generation. However, do agree with your assessment. :-) As far as the "dehumanization posts" posts go and my getting ralled up over it, I would say it hit a very old nerve and I may have over-reacted. Have only done that a few times in my 55 years. I do know some guys at the SWC that may refute that however. :-)
Kevin (Andy's Dad) - Not this year, got to go to a tracker school with most of the commitee and the ones not going to that will be involved in other "must do schools". Understand a few good speakers this year. Hope none of the silliness of last year. Remember some of those talks? Whew, talk about oddities. :-)
Keith - Be weary of low order detonation or the bullet coming apart halfway to the target. That is a very light bullet for the 300 Win Mag case.
Bolt - Those drunks can be fun to watch. Now I worry about what I did when I was one of the great plastered ones! When you find that weapon, get me one too!
Alan - You are still missing the Dehumanization process. They do not dehumanize the soldier, they attempt to dehumanize the enemy. This makes it easier to kill the enemy. Look again at the SS sceneraio that you used. They dehumanized the Jewish, the Gypsies, the Russians, etc. However, they always showed the SS how human they were and how special and civilized they were. Again, the same holds true during your time. They dehuminaized and demonized the Soviets, the VC, etc. You see, I went through the same thing you did. I came into SF in 1967 and stayed until retirement in 1990. I now work as an instructor at the Special Warfare Center and School. I teach snipers and we do not and have never "dehumanized" the students. We do explain to then the problems they may encounter, but to dehuminize would actually be counter productive in that they must be able to properly chose when to and not to fire. a dehuminized robot would not be able to make that decision worth a crap. If there was/is this process, then I missed it. :-)
Steve - Sight alignment on the AR. Try painting a small whit dot on the sight block below the fron sight post. Place it at a comfortable distance down that you have a natural sight alignment. Now when you shoot, touch your nose to the charging handle and let the white dot settle in the bottom of the rear sight aperature. It should be easy as the mind sees it as a BB resting in the bottom of a pipe. It will be obvious as soon as the BB moves form the bottom of the pipe and it has the side benefit of making you look at the fornt sight. Now remember to check sight alignment as the last check before firing the weapon and your groups should tighten up. What you are doing wiht the M1A is using the hex screw subconsciencely, Or on purpose, and this places that reference point on your AR. Hope this helps.
Well guess that my short post turned into a band burner. Sorry guys. Hope that you all took the first para for what it was intended, a compliment on the variety and competence of the posters on this little web site we call home. :-)
Hold hard Guys
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 03:38:51 (ZULU)
Here's the link:
http://call.army.mil/
My reference to "Carl" is the local varient of lessons learned--"Call" is the one I meant to reference. Either way, the link is the one you want.
Alan,
Ohhhhh! So that was the angle. I missed your point from the get-go, in that dehumanization of the enemy--through proganganda or other means was your intent. Yessir, that goes on. But it is ineffective in the long run. Using slurs to make a monster of your enemy is all fine and well until you meet your enemy face to face and he is us. Heheh. Anyway, I thought we referred to the effect of killing on "our" soul. My point, in either case, is we must take the time to truly understand our enemy...and we must educate our troops accordingly. Propaganda and slogans are a poor substitute for the thorough treatment I am advocating--to know and understand the stakes of action or inaction will give the average Joe a better perspective before he takes a life. Then, it is a process of reconcilliation that ultimately justifies his action. Without this, a young troops who kills another young troop (who looks much more like himself than he ever expected) may spend much of life wondering why. We do not spend any resources on killing as a thought process. Just "how to." Ever wonder why a rifle company's rifles aren't as lethal as you would expect??? Or why the bullet pK is so far out of whack that we may as well issue slingshots???
OK, there are two ways to overcome the societal reluctance to killing another human being. The old way of painting the enemy as an insect (or whatever is fashionable). Or the harder, more cerebral way of depicting the conflict in terms of what may happen if we don't kill the enemy. One works right now, and gets slightly more effective over time with conscripts...while the other takes a helluva initial investment, but will work long term and over many different conflicts with your professional all-volunteer force. How many times will our young'uns buy into the "BG's are cockroaches" as we go from conflict to conflict? "Hey, I thought the Iraquis were cockroaches...no? The NKs are? Damn, I forgot..." Yeah right. We really need to teach the cultural and ideological objectives and goals of potential adversaries to our soldiers, even during peaceful interludes. And we need to focus the POI on why killing one of them isn't such a bad idea. In other words, the "why" of it. We got away from this bigtime when the USSR ceased operations.
Sub country? Didn't those guys invent the Gen II reticle for their periscopes? Hey, it relates. Well, maybe only in my twisted little mind...LOL
CDC,
I'm with ya. If nuking everthing we don't like ever became policy, I'd be out a job! I need the money guys, so listen to Dan when he bags on ya!
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 04:22:49 (ZULU)
The aviation fuel that Trieste used was a very pale purple. Same stuff used in AD-1 Skyraider, etc. Your take on Trieste's demise because of this may be accurate. She decommissioned in '80, so the use of this fuel may have attributed.
I was on Trieste II (DSV-1) from '72-74. Still have my qualification notebook, as well. Our deployment group as call the Integral Operating Unit(IOU) and consisted of Trieste II, The White Sands (ARD-20), and the Apache (ATF-64).
Sorry to turn this into a submarine site, guys, but it's uncommon that there are three of us that crewed that piece of (then) cutting edge technology.
Jacque Cousteau used to give me heartburn, but then I was living the dream.
Semper fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Bldogett, OR, USA - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 04:54:12 (ZULU)
Crap, enough of this, and no Alan I do not think in terms of nor dismiss such as Psycobabble. Been around this game for too long.
Hold hard Guys
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 04:55:21 (ZULU)
They hate the bastard up close and personal. They see us as LIBERATORS.
That is the same deal as in A'stan.
These people are the victims of nuts like Kim Il Jong, Sadaam or those glue-sniffers who run Iran.
Our military must kill who they need to kill and not stop until the issue is no longer in question. That will include some sorry assed conscripts who want nothing more than to be left alone to raise their families. Stopping too soon just sets the stage for much more killing later. The examples of Versailles and the end of Gulf War I illustrate this point.
If you let yourself think about it, these people's plight would be very sad. But that is just the way it is. Crying about brute facts is pointless.
But this "nuke all rags and dinks" foolishness makes more enemies than it nullifies.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 05:27:47 (ZULU)
Dehumanization of the enemy is a time honored technique, however some of it may rub off on our own. Not all become married to the Military, although there's nothing wrong with that if it's your choice. Some feel as if they're not part of society when they leave the service after combat. Some become very antisocial. I don't claim to know, but I'll bet there are some damning statistics out there.
Rick, what you said about the SS was exactly what I meant in my post. Go back and re-read it if you've a mind to. Maybe I should go back to school and re-take English Composition at this late date!
Enough of this. I think that we may be on the same page, but are talking circles around each other;-)
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 05:55:17 (ZULU)
"I will defend my country as I will defend my family. That is without reservation, and to my fullest. To do that I must be human and wish to preserve my social group of humans or it becomes meaningless in all forms."
Well said.
jc
jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 06:06:15 (ZULU)
I just found a bunch of the old L81A1, M86, and M82 stocks. (those used on the old sniper rifles) I was wondering if anyone knew if they would work with standard Mauser 98 actions, or do they have to be special ones? I would appreciate any help on this subject.
Mayhem Out!
Mayhem <killare@hotmail.com>
Texas, - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 06:42:33 (ZULU)
Hammer on a bolt handle at - frigid????, not a real good idea now that the handles aren't forged integral with the bolt body. You can find ways to warm the rifle up easier than you can reattach the bolt handle.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 11:23:16 (ZULU)
Early 60's was a little before my time as I wasn't born until 1966 LOL Things have probably changed a little but knowing the government, not much. USS Nautilus museum is nice if you're ever in the area. A good history lesson on the sub service in the Navy.
Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
- Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 11:41:05 (ZULU)
I agree, we are on the same page, it was my inability to read properly that caused the confusion.
JC - Tahnk you.
Bolts coming lose - Yes, have seen it on the range with two seperate weapons that we were trying to get open due to student mischief and lack of attention to detail. The rawhide mallet poped them right off with minimal force. Both were condemned with faulty silver solder jobs that had gaps and bubbles. Sent back and were repaired but in the field that is not an option. :-(
Oh well back into my day job. Got to get ready for the next month of fun and games.
Hold Hard
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 12:22:33 (ZULU)
Sarge, I will pen it in on my calender. I will deffinately be there, unless I can't. At which point I wont. But I should be there.
Dirty Steve, Out
Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, US of A - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 14:45:42 (ZULU)
If cold weather operations increase the chance of the handle seperating from the bolt body, maybe having the bolt modified pre-deployment is the solution.
Jeff Hicks does a bolt mod that prevents the handle from seperating. I've seen one that was modified and it's very nice. I can't see any drawbacks to the mod he does as far as functionality. The one bolt I've seen modified was very well done and for the $40 that Jeff charges it seems like it would save a lot of headaches. I don't know if George or Jerry have a mod available that achieves the same thing.(anyone??)
MedicJim,
is that why you went to autoloaders ;)
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 14:52:50 (ZULU)
Some time ago I asked what would be the best brand/type wire cutters to keep in the kit for cutting through chain link fence. I got answers and lost them. Sorry. I tried a search here but I must be doing something wrong. As I recall the brand was Klein????? Medic Jim can you tell me again?
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 15:06:03 (ZULU)
I truly admire your integrity in action. (ref. your last post)
Bolt handles coming loose when struck - been there, done that (abuse), learned a lesson that will last as long as I live. George reattached my bolt handle and repainted the bolt for the cost of shipping (even though it was my fault)... It appears the solder job letting loose was ...
Wire cutters - Klien linesman pliers... there are two sizes, get the larger... Klien sells replacement handle insulators that are red, rigid plastic... these are a MUST... Cut the 'dipped' coating off the pliers, place the red handles in boiling water and pound them on the pliers...you now have a quality tool. (HOME DEPOT and SEARS handle the Klien line where I live)
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 15:32:42 (ZULU)
Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
- Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 15:53:46 (ZULU)
She's here and she's a long drink of water @51".
Thanks George. She's a beauty!
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 16:00:17 (ZULU)
He made a valid point about the dehumanization of the enemy trick. Years ago I read a letter from one of the German soldiers involved in putting down the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. He couldn't understand why people as obviously inferior as the "subhumans" even wanted to stay alive.
The Japanese propaganda was just as crazy. They acted on it and you see what it got them.
You've got to be careful not to believe your own bullshit.
It looks like the Shiites (Iran) and the Wahhabis (Saudi Arabia and Al Qaeda) are skirmishing. The mad mullahs in Iran are getting desperate.
We're pulling a grapefruit off the bottom of the pile. Nobody knows where they will land, but I'll bet we land on top.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 16:29:54 (ZULU)
New Jersey has placed a ban on all handguns that do not employ the electronic ID process that makes a pistol uselesss to anyone but it's owner. The law gives three years to comply.
The law goes into effect when and if the technology is invented.
I hear next week there will be a ban on death rays, gauss rifles, death stars and terminator robots (including the liquid metal ones). There will be a grandfather, so get your death rays today!
Also relevant - The Swede's just announced a study which suggests working with stupid people can increase your risk of heart attack.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 16:32:34 (ZULU)
Could you email me an update on our "Operation Birthday Card" recipient? That courageous young man stayed in my thoughts/ prayers over the holiday season, and I think I may have missed an update along the way.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 17:31:54 (ZULU)
Right now their are three ways to get an AR-10 20 round mag.
Option 1 is to have Armalite convert the mags for you. They charge $30 each or $125 for 5 and you have to send in a 20 round mag for conversion. In the past it had to be a USGI or Chineese mag which is where th $70-$80 cost comes from. But as of this past September you can send in the $13 USA mags which are junk instead, and get the USGI quality mag back. So for $43 you have a like new 20 round mad. This program varies slightly with their current marketing. Sometimes it's $5 or so more.
Option 2 is to purchase the Kits. In order to get the kits you have to send in a Shell form an existing mag. The same $13 USA mags work, since the Shells you get back are new, along with a follower and spring. Cost here is about the same.
Option 3 is to use M-14 mags like they are, with the metal follower. You have to cut a hole for the mag catch in the side and shorten up the feed lips. These can be had from Coles in used condition for $31.00 I have dozens of these and they work 100%. The bolt hold open won't function but unless you are in a firefight is of no consequence other than convenience.
Genuine HK mags are over $50 and SR-25 mags are $125 or more. 5 round HS mags are over $50, AI mags are over $70 for the 5 and 10 rounders, and FN's are over $50 for 5 rounds. UNless you go with the FAL's everything is some bucks.
Take Care
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 18:15:42 (ZULU)
You have mail. N/A
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 19:27:59 (ZULU)
Its off to roll call..
Dirty Steve, Out..
Steve Dickerson <ginger@devtex.net>
There no such thing as luck, God just loves stupid people..., - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 19:58:22 (ZULU)
You got mail. no attachment
Don
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, US of A - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 20:47:12 (ZULU)
Pete.
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 20:54:35 (ZULU)
>>>"Untermensch is what the Nazi's called anyone who they thought was inferior."<<< Is one who thinks another to be inferior, if the other turns out to be superior, inferior to the superior?..............;)
Oh yeah, and Klein also makes a hardended cutter grade which costs a few bucks more but will far outlast the standard grade.....9" is the length ya want, they are the biggeruns Jim's talking about.
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
LakeCormorant, MS, - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 22:23:24 (ZULU)
Ya'll need to read "On Killing" by Dave Grossman. Also, "Men Against Fire" by S.L.A. Marshall (if you haven't already).
As always, there are arguments pro and con on these twos theories.
Happy Hannaka,
Brian
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 22:39:34 (ZULU)
MarkSmith <Windinmane@aol.com>
LakeCormorant, - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 22:46:02 (ZULU)
It is however a fact that human life has a different "worth" in different cultures, as does common decency, respect,honesty, a sense of right and wrong.Propagandists make use of this fact to motivate, scare or threaten. I would suggest that war is a special situation where in bread or in trained reactions and the will to survive take priority over the will to adhere to "human values" , war reduces man to his animal state, and we are all animals when it comes down to it. If this means that one is dehumanised or dehumanises others, so be it.
Pete.
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 23:14:55 (ZULU)
"Opened in October 1998, http://TheFiringLine.com has gone "dormant" as of 31 December 2002......More than 4 years ago, we challenged firearms owners to prove a point...that internet Discussion Forums need not be "Chat Rooms"; that spirited debate need not include personal attack; that internet exchange need not fall to the level of lowest common denominator. Together, nearly 18,000 of us rose to exceed this challenge. Together, we provided a compendium of information on firearms, tactics, safety and political insight perhaps never before seen in one place. Together, we have educated the novice and inquirer, converted the misled, built a bond between many LEO's and Law Abiding Citizens, raised monies for worthy causes and much more. In short, TFL has truly "raised the bar".
With the closing of TFL, we end a chapter...but not the book. We each now know what can be achieved in an atmosphere of free exchange, where civility, intelligence and articulation are prized and respected. We ask each of our Members to carry that tradition forward to other sites and venues."
They didn't mention SniperCountry as an alternative venue but I see all they said above as referring to SniperCountry also. We are all they were and more. Their loss if they can't see it or admit it. Let's not lose what we got!! Like Master Rick said, this place is unbelievable!
Badlands SC Match -
If a certain gas gun believer gets his shit together in the near future, there may be two of us there with the big gas guns. I'm having the Raffle Rifle from last year restocked and tweaked as we speak.
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 00:07:27 (ZULU)
I made it to 55!
01-02-03. Cool.
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 00:12:00 (ZULU)
Oh, turn the bullshit meters to the OFF position.
I was standing in a pawn and gun in Killeen (Ft. Hood) Tx.
I'm quoting...........the Russian Dragunov is the finest most precise sniper weapon ever built. You can open the action, pour it full of sand, chamber a round, and shoot an enemy 1800 meters away.
It fires under water.
You can drag in behind a truck,,,,,,,,and it still works.
I'd buy it but Im goin home to Arkansas.......and it's illegal there because you can't own a weapon that shoots further than 500 yards.
End quote.
Dayyyyummmm.......I almost bought it.
Mike inTexas <mcdonald@hcn.hcnews.com>
Granbury, Texas, - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 00:45:03 (ZULU)
Happy Birthday!! Man,, you is gettin' old ;)) 47 more years and you'll be knockin' on 'Lito's door!!
Mike in Tejas,
The saleman must have gotten his info at the gunshow!!
FatBoy...
10-7-73, young,broke,FAT and stupid. And the misses still has me on double secret probation ;))
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 00:56:21 (ZULU)
Rob01 - Sorry, I've had all of that 'frozen waste land' I can handle! I'm gonna stay down here whur it tain't quite so bad...
Wes, I would suspect that the purple tint to the AV gas used in T-II's floatation was caused by the 'tetra-ethel' (lead) in it. Don't know fer shur... I know several of the divers got some pretty bad 'burns' when they had to swim in 'spillage' (over fill). They would not be allowed to dive for a while to prevent lead poisoning. What were you on T-II, Machinist Mate? Me & you make 2, who's the t'other one?
I was an 'EM.'
1-2-2002 = 55? Try 60 on 11-22-2002. I go in Monday for the SECOND gnu knee...
Sorry 'bout "Sub Country..."
(We used a kind of stadimeter for a range finder)
Larry
DBF
Larry J. Porter <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the panhandle, Texas, US of A - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 01:50:12 (ZULU)
The pliers you are looking for are the Klein D213-9NE, If you need a built in crimper buy the D213-9NECR. They have hardened jaws and will cut chain-link fence like buttter. Cut off the blue dipped handles and put on the red replacement handles, you will be good to go!
TonyM <tam308@aol.com>
FL, US of A!!! - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 02:15:33 (ZULU)
Jessie Chang, I didn't get any e-mails, or maybe I deleted them due to paranoia. Belay that, I've got too much junk from these jerks, so it can't be paranoia. Please resend, and I'll keep a look out.
Interesting posts lately. Peter talks about muslim fanatic running shoes – jihad hoppers, and doing things with adoptive siblings. For a while now, people have been talking about their ROKs and how to get them off. Now we see Ken and Rick are into not only swinging, but swinging competitions. And of course, John volunteers to “take the big one” with a nice please after words. At least Ken has one thing right, about us getting bombed in Nevada. But then again, it’s around new years eve, what do you expect? With all the talk of mouse guns and rat guns, at least we haven’t hit yet on gerbil guns.
John, I don't crimp on the 223, I think your neck resizing might be a little loose. After all, they only need to hold for 29 rounds max, right?
Mike Miller, congrats on the expenses paid, hopefully, vacation. You know how to contact me if you need anything? If UPS or Fedex will get there, you can count on me to do what I can, and a little more. Doubt you'll need it though. Can I recommend a metal detector? Might need it, I hear the elevators are well hidden over there. God Speed my friend, and don't forget the pictures. Forget the flash though.
Moe, let us know how your stick turns out. I've got good feelings about that and the other thing as well.
Happy new years guys, may peace wring out across the globe, and put Joe out of work. Until then, it's business as usual.
Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Friday, January 3, 2003, at 03:31:58 (ZULU)
He's really trying his mother's patience. I'm more of a Muddy Waters and Howlin' Wolf man myself, but the whole thing is cracking me up.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Friday, January 3, 2003, at 03:31:58 (ZULU)
Medicjim - Thank you for your kind words, I accept the fact that if I am going to jump someone then I need to accept being wrong as well. Hell, that is the price of being human, being wrong and accepting it.
Moe - Welcome to the discount realm of age and senility. I have found that it makes a great excuse for some of the crap I do off and on. :-)
Dam Mike and I shoot one every once in a while when I am really bored and want the chanllenge of shooting a POS as near ranges. Never knew it shot better the further away the target is posted and I did not know you had to pour sand in it to make it shoot. However, I guess the sand would tighten up the action a mite. :-)
Also, had my shorts pulled up short by a known expert and was informed politely that there is no such thing as a lower order detonation with gun powder as gun powder does not explode. He is quite correct and I stand corrected. I guess this just has not been my month. There will be change today, on command I will open mouth and insert new foot. :-)
Edited because my typing really sucks!
Hold hard guys.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 03:35:59 (ZULU)
Wasn't the sales dude.
Was a young E-sumthin spouting his years of wisdom for all to hear whilst standing semi tall in the unearned black beret..............yeah, the Beret thing still grates on me.......some folks had to pay for them with sweat and blood.
Ya'd think this was france.
Mike inTexas <mcdonald@hcn.hcnews.com>
Granbury, Texas, - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 03:40:29 (ZULU)
"He was later caught by officers tracking him with helicopters and sniffer dogs."
....."sniffer dogs"...are they different than "biter dogs"....hows aboot "woofer dogs"????
Anyway...figured out the real reason we nuked Japan....WE DIDNT WANT TO FIGHT IN THE COLD!!! Its frickin freezing here!!! Starting to snow....All them soldiers and Marines that fought in the Solomons, Okinawa etc didnt have the freeking cold weather gear for a winter in Japan....jeeze.
Out here.
Goochisan
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Friday, January 3, 2003, at 03:53:03 (ZULU)
Mike,
I was no Ranger, and didn't want to be a Ranger,, but I still hate the black beret thing too. So does my brother, who is Army on an Air Farce base (a little dig). If the Army want to instill espirit de corps, train together, fight toghether, win together. Who gives a shit what your hat looks like?
Rick,
There's no way you can be French. From what I've heard,, you hold your rifles hard ;)) BTW,, you any relation to the Richard Boucher that's one of the National Secuity Advisors? (The guy can really work the crowd on CSPAN 2,, LOL...)
Match dates are in!!! We got 14 weekends, or 4 more than last year. This should be a good season for XTC and Long Range shooting in TN. Will keep you all posted on the what's and where's.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 03:56:31 (ZULU)
We'll Larry, I guess I'm math challenged. For some reason I thought Kevin had been on board, too. Like you, I was an Electrician's Mate and diver EM2(DV). Swam in the water a lot...nothing like looking down into the inky blackness and wondering what's down there at 16K...Loved the tour and would have stayed Navy enlisted if they could have guaranteed me staying in the deep submergence community.
I do know that we were under orders NOT to vent fuel unless absolutely required. Never picked up the "burns" you described.
Am looking at the June calender and am going to do some research to see what it'll take to get me to Oklahoma. Anyone know of hotel's, etc. in the area? Figure a five day stint...one day on either end for travel and recuperation.
This all dependent on my ability to get the time off and coverage of my duties at OSP...for...COUNT ME IN! Dammit, SOMEONE from the west coast has got to get to one of these things. If for no other reason than to show you we exhist. Won't comment on my shooting ability.
I'm coming to LEARN!
How about we start a roster of possible attendees. Brian, CDC, Gooch-san, Rick B., Stan(I KNOW your lurking), and...?
Perhaps stay at one location(special rates?), group dinner,...etc.
Really want to meet some of you gents. We have warm friendships developed on the list and I'd like to be able to put faces with the names.
On duty tonight...will give this more thought.
Someone needs to let us know a general course of fire, rounds requiremnt, etc. Maps?
Kevin, congrats on the new 6.5 X .284. You're gonna love it...
All for now...
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 04:12:50 (ZULU)
The last class I attended at Badlands a couple of friends and I stayed in Wichita Falls, TX. There's a handful of hotel/motels there. It's about 30 miles from Grandfield OK. which is where Badlands is located. There's not much in Grandfield, though Bobby has a pretty big bunk house on the property.
With Badlands you cannot ask for a better group of guys to work with. Steve Suttles is one of the instructors at Badlands and one of the nicest and most helpful teachers I've ever encountered. Steve spent some extra time with me at my first class. Right after I almost flunked the 100 yard test. Steve spent the next hour settling me down and helping me out. An hour later he had me shooting a pretty nice 5 shot group a 1K. I'll never forget the smile on his face. It was truly a rememberable moment for me. Anyway Steve is dealing with some health issues. If any of you are praying men Steve could sure use your thoughts and prayers. He is definitely one of the good guys.
I hope that was OK to post. I really grew fond of the man, though I knew him only for a short time. It was an honor to study under him. And I look forward to many more classes with him.
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 04:58:13 (ZULU)
Is the Army using the SPR as a spotters rifle? I would think that it makes more sense in that role than an M4 does, if they're gonna use a 5.56mm. BTW - it's nice to be understood;-)
USMC M16A4,
Anybody out there know what the particulars are with this new rifle? I understand that the Corps is going to adopt the A4 for infantry use instead of the M4 as was rumored. Good move IMHO.
AR-15 sight radius,
If you're having trouble, if the front post and target aren't focused together, if you've got weak or ancient eyesight try the B. Jones rear aperature lens system. Legal for SR, and trulr works wonders. If you try it - you'll like it!
CDC,
I'll bet that we come out on top. There'll also be a bunch of bruised fruit and a lot of grapefruit juice down towards the bottom!
Pete L,
As opposed to Ubermensch?
Moe,
Happy Birthday. I wonder if they give Senior discounts at the Bunny Ranch? Maybe group rates? It'd be like one of those buffets that the old folks attend almost daily!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 05:33:05 (ZULU)
out
G.W
Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Friday, January 3, 2003, at 05:45:24 (ZULU)
Email headed your way w/attachment
jc
jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 06:51:12 (ZULU)
I just resned my e-mail. No attachment.
Thanks,
Jessie
Jessie Chang <jessiec@oz.net>
Seattle, WA, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 08:33:14 (ZULU)
You can tell how much you're respected around here, when they quietly send ya an email an tell ya your foot is in your mouth instead of tellin everybody on the roster at the same time.
Chris...
Big One??? I resemble that remark!!! I'll get a smaller bushing for the neck sizer. I thought that question had been consumed by EMP. :))
Mike in Texas,
Sometimes it's considered polite to smack the livin shit outta some folks.
Moe ... Happy Birthday Sir, and congratulations.
MedicJim,
I didn't know you could own a handgun in Jersey unless you were a politician or movie star. Now they gotta be electric, huh? Weren't you talkin bout movin awhile back?
Klien pliers,
Both handle covers or not, the pair I bought in 1973 is still in my tool belt and it's been used for more than wire more than once. If you look up "durable" in websters there's a picture of klien pliers.
Mayhem,
Don't know about the stocks but welcome back.
Speakin of welcome back.....where is 'yote bait'???
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 10:58:35 (ZULU)
Klien fence cutter: if you can't find one at the store check the ebay link below. I have two sets, I liked the ones I had at home so well I bought another set for my call-out gear at work.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20767&item=2086040002
Take care!
Rob Opp
Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 11:41:46 (ZULU)
Shit, Rick. I've been using "age" as an excuse for years! Only now it's legit! :-)))
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 13:32:21 (ZULU)
TO ALL LEO, IF SOMEONE TOUCHES YOUR GUN OR HOLSTER HE IS GOING TO TRY TO KILL YOU. ACT IMMEDIATELY AND AS VIOLENTLY AS POSSIBLE. YOU MAY NOT GET A CHANCE TO SLOWLY ESCALATE FORCE!!! THE ONLY THING UNFAIR IN A FIGHT IS LOSING... GOUGE EYES, BITE, USE YOUR ASP CLOSED TO JAB LIKE A KNIFE. WHICH IN MY OPINION CAUSES MORE DAMAGE THAN EXTENDED. BUT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD FIGHT HARD AND TO WIN. WINNING IS THE ONLY REASON TO FIGHT IF NOT LAY DOWN AND DIE. OR FIND ANOTHER LINE OF WORK.
You may check the San Antonio news sites for why this was posted. I'm off to the range..
A P@#$ed, Dirty Steve, OUT..
Edited, Chuck over slept. I got 20 mins for him to get here so I found a link to what I was miffed about.. here it is..
http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=310&xlc=910992&xld=310
Steve Dickerson <ginger@devtex.net>
- Friday, January 3, 2003, at 13:47:00 (ZULU)
Gooch - Woofer dogs, are they the ones you put next to your stereo or whatever it is called now days. You crack me up man. Oki won't get snow but I have had fires in my fire place when I was stationed there. It can get right cold during the winter.
Chris - HUSH your mouth, me and a Statey being related. I would shoot the sucker to put him and me out of my misery if that was the case. Lets just say that the State Dept and me do not get along. Seems they wanted to put me under Fort Leavenworth during one of my trips to El Salvador in 81. Luckily two senior officers got me out of trouble.
Alan - Yes the SPR is being used as a spotter rifle and as the main weapon depending on mission profile and estimated ranges etc. Using 77gr Black Hills right now due to the fact they fit in the magazine and nominal range ability to 600 meters. Some of the other rounds are better at the longer ranges but do not fit in the mag.
Also the B. Jones Sights ar a miracle in performance for old dudes withe failing eyesight or for guys who have problems shooting with glasses on their peepers. I whole heartedly concur with Alan on this rear sight.
Moe - Happy Birthday, for the second time as my mind is going south I do believe, you are pushing old fart land now, enjoy the bennies. You can meet new friends over and over again. :-0
Well enough for now, Hold Hard Guys
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 13:56:12 (ZULU)
DAMN! Contact me offline, would like to get the complete details of that fight to add to my department's training files.
Bobby Whittington <bwhittington@badlandstactical.net>
Grandfield, Ok, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 14:25:34 (ZULU)
Last September Andy and I spent 8 days at Raton, NM (NRA Whittington Center) shooting the first Spirit of America Match. It was great! This year the match will be held August 31 through September 6. It's all known distance stuff out to 1 kiloyard and F-Class is the game for me. It's well run and a great opportunity for quality trigger time. Give it some thought.
It's snowing at about an inch per hour here. The upside is I'll be in Miami all next week. Moe are you going to be around?
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 14:35:31 (ZULU)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3921-2003Jan2.html
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Friday, January 3, 2003, at 15:03:57 (ZULU)
I do believe if you check you'll find that the bolt holes are spaced differently enough to not make it worth a conversion along with all the other measurements being off as well. What kind of stock are you looking fro for the Mauser? I've been working with a VZ24 for a while now and have looked at a lot of different stocks.
Murph
John Murphy <x191145@aol.com>
Milford, NH, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 16:06:38 (ZULU)
Sorry guy. I'm off to Boston again. Gonna try to get my mother into a new nursing home that's half the price and twice as nice as where she's at now!
And I'll get to try out my newly acquired "Old Fart's" discounts up there!
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 16:45:51 (ZULU)
I tried to contact you off line. I'm sure your busier than a three legged cat with diarrhea these days. I wanted to ask about status of the false muzzled, Henry rifled, heavy barrel you are cutting for me.
Jim McNabb
"Any society which suppress the Heritage of its conquered minorities, prevents their history, and denies them their symbols, has sewn the seed of its own destruction."
Sir William Wallace, 1281 AD
Jim McNabb <macnab@intergate.com>
The Colony, Texas, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 16:47:14 (ZULU)
Leica vs. other range finders:
All of the cheaper civilian style rangefinders (Bushnell, Nikon, Tasco) are made by the same company. They all have the same guts but are marketed by the different name brands. All of these models use an LCD display. It shows a lot of information but it also reduces optical clarity.
The Leica 1200 has good clear optics and you're not looking through an LCD.
The spring issue of Cabala's has a camouflage neoprene carry case for the Leica models for $12.99. Very Nice! Check it out.
Old Ironsights <scsmith@micron.com>
- Friday, January 3, 2003, at 18:48:04 (ZULU)
Thanks for the link to that article, it was -> on.
Don
Don K. <ussr@clarityconnect.com>
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 18:53:45 (ZULU)
Godspeed and prayers to those brothers in SA.
Like Bobby, I too, am following the news info to add to the dept. training program. Had an instructor meeting just last night. Weapon retention and constant awareness are big issues.
Unfortunately or not, we are 'downgrading', IMHO, from .45 to .40 :( in the Polymer framed model of Austrian fame. No dept firerarms instructor cadre input requested, just a decision made by outgoing Sheriff "because" thats what he heard other Sheriff's around the state are doing.
At least WI dept. of Justice now actively advocates facial, CNS shot placement training for all recruits.
out
Doug
Deputy Doug <diver1@acronet.net>
K town, WI, US of A - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 19:11:35 (ZULU)
Is Japan a threat to China just because of proximity. I'm no student of Internat'l affairs, but Japan doesn't seem to be much of a military threat from a physical size or economic standpoint.
Rangefinder update...
The Sportsman Guide 2000 yd. model went back to 'em yesterday for a full refund.... nuff said?
Kevin,
You and Andy drive down to Indy and we'll load up the Motorhome with guns and beer and gear. I'm gonna try to make that match, if I don't do ANY of the rest, based soley on your thoughts at SMTC this fall.
Dirty Steve,
Hope your guys are OK. A domestic is bad, but in public, where John Q. Public can get hurt or interfere, is always worse. I bookmarked the paper to follow it.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/expressnews/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=310&xlc=910992
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 19:30:13 (ZULU)
On the shooting the smallest guy at the scene ended up fighting with the 6' 230lbs guy. The officer ended it during grappling by placing the Glock against the BG's head and double tapping. Officer was trapped under the BG when others arrived. They tought he was dead till he said something to the effect of "get this peice of shit off me". More later as details are brought out.
Dirty Steve, Out
Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
- Friday, January 3, 2003, at 19:45:22 (ZULU)
Sounds like a road trip to me........let's start the planning. There is a great spot for RV hook-ups at Raton. E-mail me your phone number.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 20:00:53 (ZULU)
danny mull <drm8194@hotmail.com>
akron, ohio, - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 20:03:34 (ZULU)
Hey guys, hope you had a good one, still have a week of holiday left here, then it's a hop, skip, and jump back across the pond to the UK. Jaeger, I'll get back to you on the steel query, gotta find the email you sent, only about 90 msgs to sort thru on zee hotmail, and it's closin in on beer thirty..
Anyway, thanks for the weather guys, it's been great here..
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
SoDak, - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 20:23:47 (ZULU)
President George W. Bush has signed a bill giving 2,880 acres of federal land, valued at $230 million, to Clark County, Nevada, for construction of the largest public shooting range in America.
The projected $30 million Clark County Sport Shooting Park will include ranges for archery, air guns, pistols, rifles and shotguns as well as trap, skeet and sporting clays. The state’s congressional delegation had supported the bill allocating the land for the project. County officials have said the facility will be modeled after the Ben Avery Shooting Range, a publicly owned and operated facility about 23 miles north of Phoenix and a National Association of Shooting Ranges member range.
----------------------------------------------------------------
OK now why do you guys out west get all the fun places to shoot?
JLU
Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 21:03:29 (ZULU)
Happy Birthday you old varmint. Another eleven years and you'll catch up with me. Gettin' old really sucks; but not nearly as bad as the alternative! ;o)
Larry & Wes,
That 115/145 may have been purple because of the lead; but it also had purple dye in it. This was supposed to keep us stoopid airdales out of trouble. The stuff would definitely cause burns. When I overfilled my Zippo and it got on my leg, I knew it right away. JP-4(jet fuel) was clear and 100/130 avgas was green. A load of the wrong kind of fuel could be fatal.
Put me down for coming to Badlands. I may not shoot; but I would love to meet some of you dudes in person. We might even get 'yote Bait to show up.
Doc
Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The snow-covered Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, January 3, 2003, at 21:23:51 (ZULU)
All that is kind of a side point to the article. NK - with China's support - seems willing to sell nukes to any and all.
The Cold War had fewer and more rational actors. Risk was easier to assess. Fanatics with nukes are like teen-age boys with whiskey and car keys.
If it's not one damned thing it's another.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Friday, January 3, 2003, at 21:26:36 (ZULU)
Well, here's another one.
http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20030103-95731792.htm
--
MK4
MK4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 00:03:09 (ZULU)
Have obtained a 700LA BDL Stainless .30-06. Yes, it has the crappy black synthetic stock. VERY few founds fired by original owner (like four)! Deal so good I could not pass up! I think it can make a good platform for a great rifle.
Question 1: Is this a good serial number range? SN# S62233XX
Question 2: Any good experience out there with .308 in a long action?
Question 3: Would it take much to convert bolt to .300WM if rebarreled and rechambered to .300WM?
I know some of you guys would drool at the thought of another grunt joining your 6.5X.284 club, but I am not that dedicated at reloading! Guys, I am open to any ideas and discussion on the potential project!
Bored and snowed in in CT! Lester
PS: 'lito, "commo check!" Have not heard from your OP in a while!
Les <LesMartin338@aol.com>
Canton, CT, USA - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 01:04:56 (ZULU)
Dirty Steve-would appreciate details of incident when available to share with my troops. Contact me OR if'n you want credentials.
Deputy Doug-Glock 22's have had frame rail failures due to QC problem with heat treat. Make sure any/all you receive not subject to Glocks recall.
700 Bolt handle mod-checked out the website on the mod and not to doubt the 'smith's skills, but I think I'd use red Lok-Tite rather than low temp silver solder. If the back of your bolt gets up to the 175F it takes to release that stuff you got major problems!!!!
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 01:05:42 (ZULU)
Let's have fun with the "might reveal new crimes" aspect of that sentence. Stick a microscope up anybody's fourth point of contact and it might reveal crimes. Anybody ever take a piss outside (indecent exposure)? How about spitting on the sidewalk (disorderly conduct)? Know anyone who lost a movie rental or had one stolen (retail theft)? Did you have a conversation after the answering machine picked up--and fail to tell the other party (wiretap)? I bet you all broke five laws last month, and never knew it.
Since when is "might" probable cause? Hell, when I moved to Massive-two-shits (or taxatuchetts), I had five days to register my handguns. I was so informed several months later of this fact. Would I have served a mandatory 1 year in jail for that? The handguns, BTW, were stored in the arms room...did that make the entire Army an accessory after the fact? heheh.
If the LEOs are forced to take on criminals like (former) self, then who is going after the crack dealers and rapists? You know what would be funny? If those so-called "gun groups" began calling in tips on politicians in the 'hood...now that would make my damn day...
It's all fun and games until yer door gets kicked in.
And that little piece of the constitution called the Bill of Rights becomes your doormat for 8 pairs of jack-boots...(ever seen those MD state police uniforms?). How effin' appropriate. Glad I left that sorry state 22 years ago, and never looked back.
Oh, was I ranting again? Something I just read made me mad as hell...
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 01:17:02 (ZULU)
If you're not ready to commit to what is clearly the most superior long range "MATCH" caliber out there (and might I add you'd be missing the boat), I'd consider a 284win in 7mm. That way,, you get a caliber that utilizes a bullet with a BC better than that of a 308. You don't have to open the bolt face up. You don't have to modify the feed rails unless you want to mag feed. You can seat the 284 out long enough to utilize the VLD bullets. You're barrel life will be better than with a 6.5 bore. Brass is readily avilable. You don't HAVE to handload, but you'd be missing the boat. When you decide to switch to 6.5x284 you already have all the brass on hand!!
Don't want to modify the feed rail or bevel the bolt face? How's about 6.5-06? Same external ballistics as a 6.5x284 with slightly more powder.
In lue of that, 6.5x55 swede. You get a taste for real 6.5 performance with off the shelf ammo. Fed makes (or used to make) GMM in 6.5 swede.
Of course, you could stick with a 308 but a LA is wasted IMHO. I think you'd be better off with the FagMag, but I may just be biased ;))
I know you said you don't want to handload, but for the extra $350 you'd need to get set up, you'll shoot 5X the rounds per year you do now. Take the plunge mang,,, you know you really want to, or you wouldn't have asked in front of 6.5 shooters ;))
BTW, If you lived in TN the money you'd save from not paying HIGH ASS state taxes and slow removal would buy you several nice donor rifles a year AND a reloading set up.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 01:26:33 (ZULU)
My 1SG gave me a case of winchester 147's FMJ for christmas (he got a twenty pack of cigars from about 90 miles south of CONUS).
I guess I'm gonna put my M21 back together and hoist the range flags this weekend. Maybe a little shooting will get me off these rants!
Geoff, if yer not busy--come on up! I've got some 168gr left over and coyotes begging for nirvana.
Deputy Dawg (Doug),
What is a K-town? Kenosha? Was that you on I94 last Saturday that my ECM "made" in the nick of time??? Heheh. I blew by in the battle wagon (expedition) enroute back from a day at the ballet. If'n you are close to Eau Claire or McCoy ever, email me. I always have room on the farm for a fellow shooter! The wife is LEO too--so that's a double open invite!
Joe M.
If they only made a nomex tutu...
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 01:35:20 (ZULU)
Dude, I knew I would get heat from you! I am still thinkin' about the 6.5X.284! I have a 7RemMag and a .280 already. I left the Rockchucker with my brother in Georgia when I moved to this overpriced wonderland, but we spent a couple of nights stocking up on M70 .264WM hunting loads first, about 300 to be exact!
I wish this 700 BDL was a short action, not a long action. My real desire is a stainless Mike Rock 5R mated to this stainless receiver chambered in .308 for Fed 168 GMM, then teflon coated.
Has anyone utilized a long action for .308 without problems?
Getting my tax dollars money's worth in snow removal here in CT!
(Until the state layoffs on 1/17/03!)
Les
Les <LesMartin338@aol.com>
Canton, CT, USA - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 01:55:17 (ZULU)
Been using a LA m700 for 308 for about two years, now. Works fine. It started life as a 30-06.
Just remember to push your rounds all the way to the back of the magazine when loading.
Semper-Fi!
Spud
Dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
Merced, Kalisocialistfornia, USA - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 02:11:53 (ZULU)
Now, to track down a Stainless 5R, recoil lug, trigger, stock........
Les
Les <LesMartin338@aol.com>
Canton, CT, USA - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 02:16:20 (ZULU)
If'n yer gonna tear up a good rifle to build a great rifle,, you might just as well make a copy of an in-service rifle. Why not make an M24? It's a LA 308 with a R5 barrel. You pick up an adjustable HS stock and put a dovetail on the front of the barrel you've pretty much got the look. The floorplate, tigger, base and rings would have to be found, but that shouldn't be too hard ;)) If I'm not mistaken,, George does the authentic markings also. The MkIVM3's are on the emporium all the time. You too could own(built) a little slice of history!!
reloading: 300 rounds of 264winmag? That's almost the full life of a barrel for one of them ;)
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 02:31:00 (ZULU)
Discovery channel 9:00 CST, tonight. "Sniper School"
JLU
Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 02:31:44 (ZULU)
Just before Christmas the US lost Sergeant Stephen Checo, 504th Infantry Regiment, 82nd Airborne Division, originally from Elizabeth, New Jersey, in Afghanistan. Germany also lost seven soldiers in a CH-53. Another US first sergeant was shot in the head. He died on the plane to Ramstein, but was revived by a Para-Rescue man. He remains in critical condition.
My unit will deploy another soldier to the sand box. Not unusual for any Army unit, but unusual in the fact that people don't normally expect "Golden Knights", the Army's show skydivers, to deploy direct from the air show circuit to the war zone. You should be proud of the quality of Special Forces, Rangers, and paratroops your country produces.
A dear friend of mine sent me a truly memorable present this Christmas with this card:
"Dave,
A piece of everyone who ever taught me anything about soldiering has made this trip with me. I consider you part of that very august group. I thought Old Glory would be a good way for me to say thanks.
Your friend, Joe."
Packed with the tri-folded flag was this nice paper:
"This American flag, presented to (my name) was flown over the Special Operations Coalition Headquarters,
Kandahar, Afghanistan,
during Operation Enduring Freedom"
24 years of fatigue, frustration, joy, boredom, disgust, panic, exhiliration, and pride came rushing back in that package.
--------
Soldiers from the 82nd are deploying to the sand box with one rack-grade M14 per squad with an ACOG sight. 7.62 rules.
I love this board and the discussions that come up (who'd a thunk three deep-diving submariners, including two Trieste drivers?). Businessmen, cops, soldiers, hunters, researchers, students, pilots, sub drivers, farmers, teachers, musicians, manufacturers, doctors, nurses, optics guys, mathematicians, chemists, metallurgists, water technicians, firemen, HAM operators, paramedics, pharmacists, lawyers, rocket scientists--you name it, they've probably visited the board (in good times and bad). Americans to Brits, Finns, Norges, Germans, Ozzies and Kiwis, even a Russian (briefly).
Someone on the Left Coast asked me why I thought we should be fighting a war with ANYONE. I answered, "Because I didn't invite ANYONE to hijack our planes and fly them into OUR buildings.
To all out there on the board, Best Wishes for the New Year. Thanks for your prayers and hopes for our soldiers in Harm's Way and deploying in the very near future.
Sinister Dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
- Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 02:40:34 (ZULU)
Dave - Worked with 30 of those troopers on Bragg with the M14. Gave classes from marksmanship and weather, through the care and feeding of the M14. Played games out to 600 meters with them in iron sights for their edification. They were quite pleased with hits on target at that range.
Got to go for now, HOld Hard guys.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville , NC, USA - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 04:39:45 (ZULU)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7574-2003Jan3.html
Intelligent speculation about the state of play in the NK situation:
http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins010303.asp
Starve NK out?
http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley010303.asp
Another grown-up recommends selling nukes to Japan and SK. Japan's economy is about a thousand times larger than NKs. They could afford a thousand times better nukes. Anyone who has read Japan's history takes them little dudes real serious.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-carpenter010303.asp
Watch Taiwan.
MK-4: Yep. The hits just keep on coming.
Ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 04:51:07 (ZULU)
K Town, yes, Kenosha.
Don't worry on the slab. We don't even bat an eye till 15 plus over. Even then, there's always occifers indescretion!
Incoming mail, no attachies.
Mr. Moore, Thanks, Will check into that Glock thing.
out
Deputy Doug
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K town, WI, US of A - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 05:11:21 (ZULU)
Les
Les <LesMartin338@aol.com>
Canton, CT, USA - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 05:14:36 (ZULU)
As long as Les brought up making changes in his stick, I got a question too.
Anyone know if Steyr makes a Badger/MK IV type scope mount rail for the receiver top for their long action like they make for the short actions?
Picked up a nice factory rail for the top of my .376 and would like to put similar on my .30-06.
Strictly hunt weapons but I'd like to get rid of the the Loopy std mounts. Heck, the rail even has 20 moa built into it.
out
Deputy Doug
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K Town, WI, US of A - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 05:49:12 (ZULU)
If your LA .30-06 Steyr rifle is a SBS, I think the action is drilled and tapped with a pattern that is the same as a Browning A-Bolt LA. I think DD Ross makes the bases for Steyr, not completely sure.
If it is a Professional series, or a Model "M", then you are pretty limited on what is available for you. Choose Warne over Conetrol. Trust me, the Conetrol will let you down.
Great to see another Steyr shooter here!
Les
Les <LesMartin338@aol.com>
Canton, CT, USA - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 05:59:54 (ZULU)
Joe, "coyotes begging for nirvana"? Sounds like you're primed for the desert too, although I'm not used to hearing them referred to as coyotes.
Speaking of coyotes, Bill, I know you're out there. You know you're out there. We both know you're being mystically drawn to the uttered word "coyote". If you don't say hi here quick, I'm going to send an e-mail off to you, the kittywhacker, and Bruce, and you're all going to work out discontinued Browning low walls versus Ruger number ones with custom hangers chambered for fireballs. No, hornets. That's a threat to the kittywhacker and the husband of the child bride too.
Chris, LMAO! How do you really feel about it?
Moe, that's one big happy birthday going your way. Maybe too big. We might need a fire chief for that cake LOL
Badlands sounds GOOOOOD. Now all I have to do is figure out the details. First detail first, is this a swinging singles scene, or a couples only event? If it's a couples only event, you guys better make offers quick, or else I'll dance with the blue fishnet nylons shooter LOL.
Texas Mike, Druganov. eh-heh-heh, he said druganov. If I didn't know you better, I'd think you made that up as comic relief. It worked too. Every time I think people really can't be that stupid, one pops up to prove me wrong. So was it more insulting to be around someone that stupid, or wondering if he thought you were stupid enough to believe it?
CDC, if you want, I'll volunteer a CD of Hank III (Junior's junior). In my opinion, it's better. Not for you, but for your wife. "The little whack job" LMAO!
Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 06:00:02 (ZULU)
A call for a Disturbance came out at the Denny’s . A Detective who job is evidence collection was going to the location for dinner (This is assumption based on how things work around here.) Hears the call and lets the dispatcher know he was out as others were dispatched.
The Detective approached them and things calmed down. The DI (detective) then said lets go outside where we can talk about this a way from everyone. As they are walking out, (order of march Bad Guy in front, DI then girlfriend of BG) the Girlfriend says, He has a gun with him. At this point the BG who is on parole for Attempted Murder immediately tunrs without warning and punches the Detctive in the jaw braking the jaw in several places. Lights out he goes down. BG grabs officers weapon. Turns to bitch at GF. DI gets to his feet and can not think straight and begins staggering around. BG sees him up and starts shooting at him. He is grazed in the head and back while stumbling around.
Second officer (O2 from here on out) arrived hears shots, goes in. O2 was shot as he came in the door. Hit in the Jaw and twice in the lower body. He goes down. BG walks over takes gun number two. Turns his attention to GF or is distracted while O2 wakes up and crawls outside. O2 makes it out into the parking lot when two other officers arrive. They get out of the car two check on him. BG steps out and commences shooting. Both officers are shot several times each. BG then approaches one officer, the smallest by the way. BG was now out of ammo, and wants officers gun. BG and wounded officer begin fighting. Officer is out weighed by 100 lbs by the way, he weighs about 125 or so. During the fight tiny officer puts big hole where BG’s brain was. Officer now is pooped with his energy spent or draining onto parkinglot and BG dead laying on top of him.
Another officer arrives and goes to check on him. Officer assumes he dead till down officer says, “Get this piece of shit off me”.
Jeager, I'll dance with you.. Haha..
Is this Bad Lands match a team or individual match? Is the date set fer sure for the shoot?
Sleep time..
Dirty Steve, Out
Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, US of A - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 07:44:19 (ZULU)
(SKY) I see that 2 girls got killed and 2 got wounded in a shooting in Birimingham ( UK) they are trying to figure out if the shooting was drug gang related and the girls where innocents caught up in the cross fire. Well I wonder if the shooters had gun licences and where using guns that aren't banned. hmmm I'm sure that criminals are politicaly correct too righ?( i'm bieng ironic) UK gun laws prevent gun crime and the police are always there to protect us and prevent crime?? so Mr Blair, tell that to the families of the dead girls.
Apparently one of the weapons was a Submachine gun. ( can't be , they where banned years ago?) DUH !
I am afraid that this will set off the next wave of anti gun propaganda and control, as if a total ban on legaly held weapons would have prevented anything...When will the politicians and police chiefs wake up.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 10:31:08 (ZULU)
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 10:38:32 (ZULU)
Questions for Bowcher.......
Do you count the first 2 shots as cold bore, or just the first?
Why so much night firing? Would appear that you could really get waxed in your hidey hole with the muzzle flash lighting up some bad guys night vision toys.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 10:43:11 (ZULU)
According to the news, the government are putting through legislation that they propose to amend in order to tackle armed crime in responce to the recent murders. They are proposing a minimum 5 years for anyone carrying a weapon. I bet that'll get the crims, druggies and gangsters quaking in their shoes.
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 12:00:31 (ZULU)
CDC,
Now I see. I hadn't looked at it from a resale viewpoint. Your analogy with the boys, booze and keys made it all to clear.
Mk4,
I wondered how long it would take. Bastards!
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 12:01:05 (ZULU)
You have mail, clean about, 12K. ballistic guess. @ 220 gr.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 12:54:13 (ZULU)
Criminals belong in jail.
The mentaly ill belong in an asylum.
Drug testing should be compulsary for benefit recievers and people who work for the state.
You and I belong at Nr 10 Downing street.
You are going to have to teach me how to use this wind meter, i can't find the damn instructions(probably in the cellar like everything else), I've figured the barometer bit out(i think) it dropped like a brick over the last few hours and its just starting to snow(pig weather again, yes !)
I see that Winchester custom shop do a Model 70 in 450 Marlin, costs $2400 ish, now if in can't build myself one cheaper??? a control round feed would be a good idea, .. on the lookout for a cheap base for it.. can you reload me some 450 ammo? if we get the right bits, I could do with some down loaded and subsonic, I figure using 45/70 sub sonic data should be about right, any comments?
Pete.
PS. I just bought a load of salad oil from Aldi, it isn't taxed as much as diesel is,i'm going to try running on that, freeing up cash for other things like shooting/hunting.
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 12:59:20 (ZULU)
http://www.mysanantonio.com/expressnews/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=310&xlc=910992
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 13:31:29 (ZULU)
C:\WINDOWS\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5
C:\WINDOWS\Internet Logs: .rdb and .ldb
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 13:59:35 (ZULU)
The news guy said 'carrying weapons' as oppossed to 'using'. Like you say, this could make criminals out of innocent or justifiably frightened/vulnerable people.
Latest thoughts on the murders are they were caught in the middle of a gun battle between rival drug gangs. The police say they are absolutely positive that local people and even close family/friends of the victims know who shot the girls, but are too affraid to talk.
Somehow I don't think the threat of 5 years is going to stop the likes of these people.
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 14:16:57 (ZULU)
OK the dates ARE set...6-8 June, 2003 at BadLands!
Individual or Team...we ain't decided yet! Maybe a mix!
Again as I stated in my original post...Be prepared for ANYTHING!!!
As they say at Badlands - Come, bring guns, we'll shoot, it'll be FUN!
More information will follow as we get it together.
If you need more information on lodging in the area go to:
www.badlandstactical.net and cruise their web-site. Map, location of Grandfield are there.
Looking forward to meeting a WHOLE BUNCH OF YOU!!
Sarge
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 14:57:47 (ZULU)
Dave is by the way, after one of those nice airguns i sent you, his missus is buying it as a present for him, she couldn't afford the whole lot and scope mounts etc, so i said I'd go halves with her.. providing they both promise me that they will teach thier two boys ( I'm the God father) to shoot. I figure its worth the investment. Daves step dad and Brother are both gamekeepers. he and i spent may hours hunting when we where teens, there i go again, memory lane. He often comes stalking with me when i'm home, If you n me ever get our Sporting estate rented, I'll bring him along for a week.
You got that wandering zero sorted yet? got any snow? how about you n me making this bad lands shooting match? Ryan Air fly anywhere near there? Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 15:08:43 (ZULU)
I wanted to take a moment to express my appreciation to JEFF HARMON and JOHN for responding to my recent post on the D.R. concerning 300 Win. Mag ballistics. Guys, the information each of you provided will help me establish some beginning ballistic parameters for my latest project gun. This Rem 700 L/A rifle will wear one of Mike Rock's 1/10 barrels and be bedded-into a McMillan A-4 stock. I wanted to thank you both on the D.R. and will respond to you indivdually by E-Mail (w/NO ATTACHMENTS).
I really enjoy monitoring the postings to the D.R. and I look forward to being able to contribute whenever I can. The information everyone is so willing to share helps many fellow shooters. The occasional opinion offered on the D.R. sparks interesting (and frank) discussions. Thanks again everyone.
Mike Diorio <Gulfspray@Earthlink.Net>
Palm Harbor, Florida, - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 17:08:42 (ZULU)
Jim; Just got off phone with Mike Rock. I mentioned to him you had a posting about your barrel. He asked me to relay to you that he has finished everything but the rifling on your project. He will try to complete as soon as possible. Mike also asked me to pass the new phone number at his shop: (608), 862-2357. From personal experience, I can tell you that Mike or Kim always answer this number unless they are both in the middle of some machining work. Regards.
Mike Diorio <Gulfspray@Earthlink.Net>
Palm Harbor, Florida, USA - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 17:52:17 (ZULU)
Update on the shooter from SA he was working as a bouncer. So he was the, I like to fight type to begin with... I will make some corrections some time tomorrow on what I posted. I was slightly out of sequence on part of it. hose of you I e mailed I will send the msg again with the revisions. My info was handed down from person to person tili I got it.
Dirty Steve, out
Steve Dickerson <ginger@devtex.net>
- Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 19:38:52 (ZULU)
US Army Special Forces Command
The American Legion Magazine recently reported on an award of the Bronze Star, presented by LTG Doug Brown, to Captain John P. Spanogle, 5th Special Forces Group (Airborne).
LTG Brown provided some insight into the war in Afghanistan and the soldiers fighting it. "In the earliest days of conflict, only a few weeks after the first US Army Special Forces had been covertly inserted into the country, a radio message was relayed to the Army Operations Center in the Pentagon. It came from a Special Forces captain who had linked up with soldiers of a group of the Northern Alliance." The message stated:
"We have not slept in four days. Have not eaten in two days. Water is running low, and we have only about ten rounds of ammunition per man.
Tonight we attack."
Sinister Dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
Fayetteville, North Carolina, - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 19:40:36 (ZULU)
The front door isn't always shut and locked.
The bad guys aren't the only ones wearing black.
Bulletproof vests aren't.
If you're wounded don't call for the medic, he's busy shooting people.
Double-sided sticky tape isn't really sticky on both sides.
Screaming "FREEZE, FREEZE, NOBODY MOVE " doesn't mean for everyone to panic.
Don't place the muzzle of your weapon under the body armor of the man in front of you. It puts him in a bad mood.
Flash bangs will ROCK YOUR WORLD.
Your Taclight will never work when you want it to, and it will always work when you don't want it to.
A double tap doesn't require the use of all 30 rounds.
Silenced MP5s aren't.
The MP5SD3 has two roles in CQC: it makes a nice club and it makes a nice club.
Paper targets don't shoot back. If they do, you came in the wrong door.
During an explosive breech, protect your eyes. You can see better without wood in them.
There's always a bad guy on the floor behind the couch.
Always shoot the large-breasted target.
Being a tall man in CQC is like being a piece of meat in a tank filled with piranhas.
Your communications equipment will always fail when you have something really important to tell the rest of the assault team.
If you shoot a hostage, claim that you didn't even shoot in that room.
If the above statement fails, blame the least experienced man in the room.
Don't miss the terrorist when you shoot, it pisses off the assault team in the next room.
Terrorists do not carry pro timers, but will probably move faster than you can shoot.
Terrorists don't care how many badges you have or what unit you belong to, they just want you DEAD.
sinister dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
- Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 19:54:01 (ZULU)
Does Badlands have any kind of facilities in the way of power/water/etc. for travel trailers and such? How many will the barracks hold? Just curious. Will be there if at all possible. It'll be worth it just to watch Jaeger and Dirty Steve 'cuttin the rug.'
BTW, if anybody saw the news byte of the Badlands facility back during the MD shootings, got a firsthand look at some fine people with a fine organization. The news piece was right on. Not exactly what I expected in todays PC atmosphere. I heard though that the reporter was a VN vet.
--
Bad situation in San Antone. My prayers to all the LE and families involved.
--
MK4
MK4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 20:12:11 (ZULU)
Not 100% positive, but was informed that toy guns or real, armed robbery is still armed robbery in NY! Years ago they passed a law requiring all toy guns to have a flourescent orange muzzle. It didn't take long for the BG's and juveniles to go to work with the black spray paint.
So now the LEO has no idea if he's being pulled down on with a firearm or a waterpistol. "Community leaders", I'll bet you know who that means, raised holy hell that "innocent children" were being shot by the police when they brandished their painted toy guns at the LEO.
In my view, let Darwinism run its course. If a kid is stupid enough to pull any kind of gun on a cop he's bound for the welfare rolls as an unemployable if he lives to adulthood anyway. Let them have their toy guns and maybe save the additional tax burden in the future!
My theory on reducing vionent crime,
Don't ban guns - ban DENNYS! We've had murders in the local Denny's parking lot, seem to happen after the bars close, even here in 'dinky little town'.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 20:40:50 (ZULU)
A couple o years ago whilst traveling thru a seedier part of town in my 'cruiser', I come to a stop only to notice some young kid walk out from the front porch of his home, carrying, raising and aiming a full size all black M16 at me & my car, from behind. Holy Moses! Threw that sucker in reverse, floored it and damn near run down that kid right on his own front lawn. Lucky bugger scampered, more scared than I was, dropping the black painted heavy lime green rubber training rifle his dad had brung home a couple of years ago.
The dad claimed it was from the 'service', contraband, and how sorry he was.
Just like Dirty Steve said yesterday, immediate response with voilence of action. Report wouldn't have been much longer than it was anaway. Dumb little shit.
out
Deputy Doug
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K town, WI, US of A - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 22:32:57 (ZULU)
Here is the original message:
Wanted to see if you might help me get the word out at Sniper Country that my friend Steve Suttles has been diagnosed with prostate cancer. Steve is a former Vietnam-era Marine Scout Sniper. During his time in RVN Steve was credited with 67 confirmed kills. We worked together as Scout/Sniper Instructors at the NGMTU for several years and he is one of the few people in life that I consider one of my heroes. Even though he recently retired from the National Guard, Steve has always been a Marine wearing an Army uniform. He is one helluva Marine, Sniper, NCO and friend. Steve should be a familiar face for anyone who has attended a course at Badlands Tactical or at the National Guard MTU Scout/Sniper school. Please send cards and letters to Bobby at:
Bobby Whittington
Rt. 1 Box 530
Grandfield, Oklahoma 73546
Have the cards marked Attn: Steve
Thanks folks and let's keep Steve in our prayers!
GET THOSE CARDS GOING!!!
Sarge
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 23:13:28 (ZULU)
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 23:54:52 (ZULU)
Yes, there are places to park RV's here in town, to include here at the BadLands HQ's. Only problem with the HQ's is that we do not have sewer dumps for the RV's. Any help I can provide for rosterians on lodging,etc, just drop me a line. This is going to be fun. Our bunkhouse can sleep about 12 people, but it fills fast, and gets crowded!! For the price that is charged to bunk there, haven't had a complaint yet though!
A note about Steve. Yes, he has been diagnosed with Prostrate cancer. MRI, CT's and all the other test did not detect that the cancer has spread to his lymph nodes. He goes in for surgery on the 13th of January. Doctors will do pathology at start of surgery on lymph nodes, and if it hasn't spread, they will remove prostrate and he will be good as new in about 6 weeks. If it is found to have spread, they will close him up, and he will start chemo treatments. I would really like to walk into his room after he gets out of surgery with bags full of cards! Steve was kind enough to take me under his wing back in 95 and teach me all that he could about sniping, and being a good NCO. Learned alot from him, and still learning from him to this day! I met Steve at the State Sniper Rifle Match here in Oklahoma in 1995, and was fortunate to win it. I asked Steve if he would be willing to train my team up for competition at the Wilson Match and he agreed to do so.There aren't many people that I know of, that would devote EVERY stinking weekend , from May to October,that we didn't have drill, to drive 4 hours from his house to mine, and train me in the art of the rifle, and not charge a stinking dime for doing so, just because he wanted to pass along his knowledge to a willing student! We developed a damned good friendship from that, one that I will cherish for the rest of my life!
Bobby Whittington <bwhittington@badlandstactical.net>
Grandfield, Ok, USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 00:04:44 (ZULU)
RE: Steve Suttles
Bobby,
>>>>>>A note about Steve. Yes, he has been diagnosed with Prostrate cancer. MRI, CT's and all the other test did not detect that the cancer has spread to his lymph nodes. He goes in for surgery on the 13th of January.....I would really like to walk into his room after he gets out of surgery with bags full of cards!<<<<<<<
I've not had the pleasure of meeting Steve, but I hope to soon. Prayers are outgoing and "Good to Go." Use the Badlands address? If so then I'll let you post it. I assure you...cards are on the way. RIGHT EVERYBODY!!!
--
I've copied this from your website and hope you don't mind me posting it here:
STEVE SUTTLES - SUTTLES career in marksmanship began at age 16 in the NRA indoor smallbore youth program. SUTTLES entered the U.S. Marine Corp in 1968, and went on to graduate from their Sniper School before deploying to Vietnam in 1969. To date, SUTTLES still holds the record for the longest shot made by a bolt rifle in that conflict (1250 yards). SUTTLES graduated from the Basic Combat Intellegence Course in Norfolk Va. SUTTLES applied for and was selected for embassy duty, but opted to start a civilian career. In 1983, SUTTLES became active Oklahoma Army National Guard and is currently the NCOIC of a unit in the Oklahoma Army National Guard, and teaches at the National Guard Bureau's Scout Sniper School in Little Rock, Arkansas. SUTTLES established the Oklahoma National Guard Sniper School at Camp Gruber, Oklahoma in 1999. SUTTLES is also an accredited instructor at the Ft. Sill Field Artillery School, in field artillery survey and forward observer. SUTTLES is an avid shooter and international competitor. In his spare time Steve enjoys hunting and fishing.
--
Semper Fi, Marine. May your battle be over before it starts.
--
MK4
MK4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 00:37:47 (ZULU)
I have had the privilege and honor of meeting Steve Suttles and Bobby Whittington. Two fine gentlemen whose hands I am proud to have shaken.
I WILL be at Badlands in June. Steve, you better get your ducks in a row by then, we have to surprise another student with the temperature of a freshly-ejected .50 BMG case. Don't take 'em long to examine them, does it?
Wife and I will offer prayers tomorrow, and continue doing so until we hear that all is well.
BTW, the child bride is only 4 years younger than me, but looks so damn good I have to refer to her as the child bride!
Jaeger,
The Ruger #3 is the woodchuck killer, got more with it than all other rifles combined. The #1 is also a Hornet, but too unwieldy in the field. No custom hangers on either.......like putting a blower on a Nash........and no stinking Fireballs, either, it's Hornets or nothing. They force you to stalk.
Bobby,
Please pass on our best to Steve. Card follows.
Best Regards,
Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 01:08:38 (ZULU)
available at Home Depot. Not the cheapest source, but easy to find.
D2000-9NE is a later generation version of the D213-9NE
http://klein.sgsnet.com/products/product.cfm?ProductId=D2000%2D9NE
http://klein.sgsnet.com/products/product.cfm?ProductId=D213%2D9NE
Rod Regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com>
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 03:47:29 (ZULU)
Yes sir..use the BadLands address:
Bobby Whittington
Rt. 1 Box 530
Grandfield, Ok. 73546
Bruce sir,
We feel the same way. Would love to shoot that .50 again..hope you bring it out. Look forward to having you here again sir!
Bobby Whittington <bwhittington@badlandstactical.net>
Grandfield, OK, USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 03:51:54 (ZULU)
Bolt - Saw the show as well. No we do not classify any shots after the first as a cold bore. However, some weapons and calibers require more rounds to settle them in. Lucky for the sniper the .308 is not one of the wonder rounds that do require several shots to settle. Now if you want to see a cold bore, try the .22 cal round at 50 and 100. The first one will not be anywhere near the next and so on for a couple of the little suckers. They are fun to shoot though and will hone your marksmanship skills with minimal range requirements and not much money for ammo. Weapon is still expensive if you buy a gooden but you will have to watch the wind VERY closely and learn from it. :-)
As far as muzzle flash, that is shown more due to the nearness of the camera to the weapon. In rality the flash is mnimal or not at all past about 250 to 300 meters with NVD and is not discernable from about 75 to 85 meters without NVDs. The so called flash hider that the military uses (shudder) actually causes a worse flash when viewed throught he NVDs. :-(
OK Guys Hold hard and stay safe!
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 04:07:08 (ZULU)
I can validate this for you;
"There's always a bad guy on the floor behind the couch.
Always shoot the large-breasted target. "
Couple decades ago I came home from working night shift intent on shooting the "large breasted" target with my gun..........and did in fact find a bad guy behind my couch ................who it seems had shot her with his own gun several times that very evening..................
Mike inTexas <mcdonald@hcn.hcnews.com>
Granbury, Texas, - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 04:39:17 (ZULU)
http://www.armysniperassociation.com/21.jpg
http://www.armysniperassociation.com/30a.jpg
http://www.armysniperassociation.com/32.jpg
http://www.armysniperassociation.com/33.jpg
http://www.armysniperassociation.com/34.jpg
http://www.armysniperassociation.com/35.jpg
http://www.armysniperassociation.com/86.jpg
http://www.armysniperassociation.com/90.jpg
Lots of nice photos from the Army Sniper Association's web site of the 2002 Sniper Competition. George/Marty, is that the winning AR-10?
Some photos of the Special Forces SPR.
sinister dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
- Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 04:55:39 (ZULU)
http://www.armysniperassociation.com/86.jpg
I unitized the upper to the lower, Tuned the trigger, Reinforced the factory T handguard and added rails, (It is comming back for a Badger soon) and installed a 22" Rock 5R 1-12 barrel, SSG Shaffer reports that it shoots 1/2 MOA with M118LR.
You in Yuma yet? Got my C licence last week.
George
George Gardner <a10xrifle@aol.com>
Kansas City, MO, USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 06:59:49 (ZULU)
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/52481.htm
wuzzagrunt <t1_of_2@hotmail.com>
NY, NY, USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 07:51:23 (ZULU)
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 08:03:07 (ZULU)
I am glad I've had [so far] a couple weeks of learning from him.
I've put out the word to a couple of folks, and will get a card going myself. I posted a bit of related info from here at http://new.leveron.com/steve.shtml
Best, John
John Leveron <john@leveron.com>
Mid-MO, U.S.A. - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 08:10:32 (ZULU)
Dirty Steve- A little late but the Beretta 96's are generally a good pistol. The problems I've seen around here tend to be trigger spring breakage and trigger bars bowing. The agency that uses them the most around here is the USBP. They use some really hot Remington 155gr stuff....that's spelled with a capital H. It's like somebody really wanted a 10mm but had to use the 40 so they just stuffed a bunch more powder in the case. It's way too hot and I'm sure it's causing the bigest problems, so if the 40 your looking at is BP gun it's probably tired. My Italian 96 Centurian has been a very good pistol to me for several years.
Fatboy (Chris)- The Kimber "1911's" are OK in both generation versions. The guts need a little work. If you get a good deal on one I recommend calling brownells and ordering/installing a Colt sear and disconnector. They are made better hands down. My Kimber Pro CDP had a cast sear and bent disconnector from the factory. The Colt parts fixed it up and the trigger got much better.
Rob Opp- I used a Ferrel tapered base for my Savage 110FP 223. For the $$$ it was pretty good. The corners were a little to pointy and sharp but I fixed that right up with a little elbow greese. The fit to the receiver was very good and my MK4 rings mounted solidly. I have been happy with it so far. This is my varmint gun and I shoot/abuse it a lot, with no base complaints to date. No info on the rings I haven't seen any yet. Ken Ferrel is a heck of a nice guy to do business with or just to chat with too. Good folks.
CDC- If memory serves the M16A4 = the M16A2 but with a removable carry handle.
Well, while I was in the desert this weekend my M40A1 came and I wasn't here to sign for it...so I'll get it from UPS on Monday and have it up and runing for the range on Wenesday. Can't wait to try it out.
I sure put my department issued, old war horse, black gun, M16A1 through the paces this weekend. I'm surprised it didn't actually burst into flames with as much time as it spent on AUTO. Ummmmm shoot fast..Joe like =)
Take care everybody,
Joe S.
Joe S. <spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, PRC, US of A - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 10:02:08 (ZULU)
Sinister,
Why is the SPR carrying a lit reticle LR M3? Doesn't that cause problems when the other side is using NVD in low light situations?
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 13:12:35 (ZULU)
Bruce, e-mail coming your way.
Sarge
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 13:57:00 (ZULU)
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 15:05:10 (ZULU)
I've noticed that all your hunting is done at night, something that for the most part is verboten here in the states. Just wondering what size objective lense and/or scope you find useful for night shooting?
Don
Don K. <ussr@clarityconnect.com>
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 15:51:29 (ZULU)
My little M4 wannabee is O.D. from buttplate to FH including the Aimpoint. A few tan blotches here & there- tough for me to do the optics as I switch around alot. Sometimes I use velcro pads and burlap strips wrapped around the optics until I am sure.
Unlike most you see, my mags match the cammo.
Later,
Bill
Bill Moore <lmalterna@aol.com>
Goodview, VA, USA USA USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 17:16:38 (ZULU)
The only company I know of doing the complete camo like you suggest is Armalite. The complete job adds about $200 to the price of the rifle, but they even do the scope mount when you get a flattop model. What they do is dip the entire rifle using a film over water technique. It's the same way camo is applied to factory shotguns. The others just do the furniture because it's cheaper.
Going to the Shoot at the Badlands in June. Has anyone flown lately that is non-LE with rifles,ammo, and gear? I can imagine the field day with security and the paperwork involved? Any help would be appreciated.
Anyone out their used the EOR HUD sights? Would like some feed back.
Thanks & Take Care
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 17:32:39 (ZULU)
Pig shooting here is allowed at night, infact apart from driving em, its the only way, nocturnal sods that they have become. Deer are not to be shot at night. Foxes etc. no probs.
Some one over in the formed DDR got him self in the shit lately, he shot a damn Moose (european Elch) a once in a lifetime event of a moose following ancient migration trails from the Carpathians north west and it gets clobbered. We also have a Wolf not to far from my home that has wandered over from Poland, also apparently on ancient trails beween Poland and Spain, it seems to have made its home in an area of state forest and is causeing quite a lot of discussion.
I do hunt during the day, its just not very productive with nocturnal pigs. Cant wait for some snow, then i can track them into the thickets , get my dog to spring em and see what we can do.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 17:45:01 (ZULU)
Here I sit watching it snow like crazy and you go and bring up varmint rifles!!!!!!!!! Is this cruel or what?????
My Hornet ammo for the comming season of varminting is all loaded, as is .223..Working on .222 #1 for the Queen to shoot this year. As soon as I get a 12X Leupold in the mail and some weather suitable for testing will load up 500 rounds for her.
gotta go sweep the deck again!
outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Thinkin' of Spring in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 17:47:38 (ZULU)
Sinister Dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
- Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 17:49:48 (ZULU)
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 17:51:27 (ZULU)
HDR <hprudisell@aol.com>
OK, - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 17:53:03 (ZULU)
We had a pacifist in the Alleghenies once. Never did hear what happened to him.
outa here again
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Thinkin' of Spring in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 18:07:23 (ZULU)
The rules in the past have been that the guns had to be in LOCKED cases, and checked in to be loaded in the planes cargo space.... but now (as of 1/1/03) the airport folks say that checked on luggage must be UNLOCKED so it can be searched... and they will break the locks on locked luggage. Can anyone make sense out of this?
Does anyone know of a firearms friendly airline?
-
'lito
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter's here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 19:12:52 (ZULU)
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/005/nation/US_operatives_are_said_to_be_active_in_Iraq+.shtml
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 19:28:17 (ZULU)
Does this mean youse might fly again? You ever get any word on the trian service where you can load up the jungle truck?
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 19:33:42 (ZULU)
Sinister or Master Rick - Do either of you know what lower Recievr the SPR rifles are being built on. I talked with Mike Rock yesterday and he gave me a rundown on the rest ofthe system but wasn't sure which lower was being used. Is the .270 x45 tround worth a damn if you can coment? Thanks
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 19:43:28 (ZULU)
Airlines are picky, as some of you know. Some airlines allow you to transport up to 11lbs(gross weight) of ammunition, others only allow you to ship 200 rounds in original factory boxes. I have no first hand knowledge of this, this is just information that I have obtained from students that have traveled here via airlines in the past 18 months.
What I would recommend contestants doing is to ship the ammunition here, via UPS or Fed Ex, with a shipping label like below.
BadLands Tactical Training Facility
Att: (Your Name) Sniper Country Match
Rt. 1 Box 530
Grandfield, Oklahoma 73546
Also, contact BadLands and let us know that you have shipped the ammunition, and upon receipt of the ammo, we will store it, and notify you that it has arrived.
Will that help anyone out?
Bobby Whittington <bwhittington@badlandstactical.net>
Grandfield, OK, USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 20:02:12 (ZULU)
Titan, you'll be glad to know the SPRs I've seen were built on -- wait now, here it comes -- recycled M16A1 receivers! I know some had Milazzo-Krieger triggers (semi-only), and both Knight and Accuracy Speaks (select-fire).
sinister dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
- Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 20:29:11 (ZULU)
Shot my new Gardner rifle today.....sweet. sub .4" groups @100yards. First load was 47 grains of IMR4350 w/139 Scenars it clocked 2,820 fps. Plenty of room to improve that. I'll add a full grain and see what happens. I simply could not be happier. Thanks again George.
Ref: Flying with Firearms
I've done it dozens of times with no problem. Don't know about new procedures. I'll have to ask.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 20:33:41 (ZULU)
Time to bring up a variation on an old theme. Custom smithed 1911's.
OK, so I have a blued Springfield "loaded" I bought in '98 and I have less than 500 rounds through her. I've decided that I'd like to have some "work" done on her. I really only take her to the range although I'd like to get started in IDPA and if I ever move out of this God forsaken state, it'll function as my CCW piece as well. Now I'm planning on a budget of $500 (+ or -...who am I kidding, it'll probably be alot more "+"). Anyway, I know a reliability package is probably the most important right? Then a trigger job, match bushing, barrel blah blah. The question is...What are the things you would have done (let's try to keep it under $1000 too) and by WHOM? I posted this question on the 1911 forums and got some good answers, but I thought I like to hear from some of youse guys as to what/who you'd recommend.
Here's my list of potential 'smiths...
Scott Mulkerin
Chuck Rogers
John Yanek
John Harrison
Don Williams
Vic Tibbets
Ned Christiansen
Ted Yost
Jim Garthwaite
I emailed a bunch of them and they all seemed very nice and professional. I also emailed Larry Vickers to get his suggestions and he said he'd only recommend three of 'em (if you want to know, email me. I don't think it would be in good taste for me to just post it.).
I've never delved into the world of custom 1911's so I'm really nervous about it. I only have one (1911) and I don't want to screw it up. So whatcha tinnk fellas????
Later,
Rich
Rich S. <RS1441@aol.com>
Bal'mer, - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 20:53:04 (ZULU)
Many thanks for the links to the photos.
Titan,
You didn't ask me, but I'm opening my mouth anyway:-) Many of the SPR's have been made on old M16A1 lowers. A local civilian contractor has a several million dollar gov't contract and has been updating many of these lowers. Some are coming from Basic Training centers, others from NG and Res. units. This company (CAPCO) leases our club range for testing one day per week, and we are in the process of building a new 600m range with the proceeds.
Back to Football,
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 21:13:26 (ZULU)
Yep, Child Bride and I will drag the Fifty to Badlands (she's shot it and pronounced it "a rush"). Got a few thou rounds in a horsetrade and need help turning 'em into empties for 'lito. Bobby, you can schedule the trigger time for interested parties after the match (and quit calling me "Sir", I feel old enough already!)
'lito,
Hope you're coming.......I'll bring the green chile for your cheesburger!
Very Best to All,
Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 22:32:37 (ZULU)
Looks like lots of you characters are signing up for the SC match. Self-included, provided I can get the state to let me go...
Will start getting my gear together and practicing a bit more...this is gonna be a hoot!
Rich, on 1911's. To many folk look at them as toys and not tools. I recommend the minimun needed to get it to the "tool" state. I'd go with Heinie fixed sights(tritium, your choice), dehorning, reliability package, and a high grade trigger, sear, and hammer. Beavertail grip safety, as needed. Talk it over with your 'smith.
There are three on your list who's work I've seen. Not to say the others aren't good. Check you local IDPA guys. Often they have excellent "no name" 'smiths associated with the club and they are a bit cheaper. Also, if you have a problem they are local.
Kevin, enjoy the new 6.5 X .284. Your's shot like mine did, when new...then it got better...;-)
Bobby, thanks for the Badlands information. This is going to be a hoot for all involved.
"Piggy" Pete, Congrats! A nice sow...how are you going to process the critter? Bacon, sausage, smoked or...?
You must be like me...I hunt a lot, alone. Makes my bride crazy. I LOVE it. If I screw up a stalk I got no one to blame, but your's truely.
To bad we can't do pig in a pit at Badlands...
Bruce, .22 Hornets...great fun guns. Had a Ruger #3 and sold it. BAD move. It was fun. How does your #1 Hornet shoot?
Don't know if "she who must be obeyed" would want to come to Badlands. She's not a big shooter...
All for now...
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 23:38:06 (ZULU)
If you have time to hit the DR before departure tomorrow,,, Have a safe trip man. Bring your Undudely ass back in one piece. Stalkin' the Blonde Ghillie around with a limp just don't look right ;))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Sunday, January 5, 2003, at 23:43:51 (ZULU)
Painting sticks.....My first attempt sucked ass and looked like a coral snake. I got a fast edumacation in camo from the hawgs. Random is good. "Busy" is bad. Do light colors first. The hogs covered it pretty well, the archives are loaded with ideas too. KISS principle worked best for me as far as pattern. I used Hunter Specialties spray, it dries very matte. Testors dries very flat as well and they have a hell of an assortment of camo colors.
In the end, it's not exactly a work of art and will get drug around and such anyway, so you don't have to be too picky. The ability to grab the can for a quick touch up is nice. Choosing appropriate colors, randomness, and simplicity seem to be the keys. Don't make it look "busy", or it will stick out at distance.
Most importantly, if you hang the stick from something to spray it.....make sure you do it securely so you don't have to hear "keee-rash!" :-O By the way, this incident ended my use of normal Loopie two piece turn in bases and rings!
There is an outfit here in WI called Lauer Custom Weaponry that has a propietary camo process. It's very tough and durable. They do the whole weapon, every part of it, in any pattern you desire. The AR and FAL rifles I saw were nicely done, and Steve Lauer seems to be a good guy, I met him last summer. URL is www.lauerweaponry.com. Drawbacks are cost, and reality LOL. Spray paint is so much easier, tough enough for the job, cheap, and easily changed.
Steve sorry to read about the shootout. What a CF. Man, I am convinced that there are a lot of people in this world that are just taking up space and wasting oxygen. Distance really is your friend.
***Count me in on the Badlands match.**** I need to get cracking on reserving a bunkhouse spot. Unfortunately, my sticks went away back in September so the only shooting I have done is clays with my little 20Ga single.....if the Sheriff has to take that, it's no big loss. You know what that means. I did rock pretty far back on my heels the last few weeks but have now pretty much returned to the upright position. ;-) I could have ordered a SC/Gardner stick for what the damn lawyer and everything has cost me. That pisses me off no end.
The situation with NK is something that we sure didn't need. I had the privilege of dinner with Joe M and Mrs. Joe M in September and some of the discussion pertained to exactly the things that are going on right now. Unfortunately, some of it also pertained to the reduced ability to deal with it. Pretty prophetic there Joe! Like Dan said...watch Taiwan. I really believe that in the next five years there is going to be a big realignment in the world's political landscape. My own humble opinion is that we need to figure out how to involve the Rooskies to gain every possible advantage, and do it now. The assistance we gained from them in A-stan is a good start. I read somewhere that they have thrown in with us diplomatically in the NK situation but I haven't had time to dig into it. They do have China's flank, even if they don't have much military capability other than nuclear deterrence. China is the real issue and threat IMHO. It would be nice if we could provide some timely training assistance to the Russian ground forces to improve thier efficiency. ;-)
Joe, sorry I didn't get the message in time. Whassup the 11th and 12th? Got plans? Thanks for the invite, gimme a call and let me know this week, if you are free I'll come up next weekend instead...
Happy New Year everyone! Good wishes for you all. Godspeed and sincere thanks to the troops (and the trainers!! ;-)).
Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
USA - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 00:07:54 (ZULU)
On custom additions, I would suggest an ambidexterous safety, cause you don't always get to shoot with your strong hand, or you could be cursed and be left handed, like me.
Question, Is it possible to look down a barrel at the rifling with the naked eye and a light, and tell what type of rifling the barrel has? By rifling I mean cut, or button, or forged. And if it is, what do you look for?
John <one338winmag@hotmail.com>
Liberty, TX, - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 01:24:54 (ZULU)
http://www.tenring.com/
SC Shoot, are we all gunna sit around a campfire singing Kumby-ya. Roasting smores and cats?
Andy's Dad enjoy that new toy. Are you bringing it with out for the SC Shoot?
FatBoy, When Mike gets back I better be able to out run him, Haha.
Dirty Steve, Out
Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, US of A - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 02:51:09 (ZULU)
If Mike is back from 'Stan in time,, you and he can do a 200 yard sprint stress test. You with your red pumps and he with his baby blues ;)) I don't figure anyone would wanna eat anything after that though ;))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 02:54:10 (ZULU)
Bolt - I guess becuse some guys are afraid to paint the reciever and barrel. There is some tape from the UK (the Royal Marines uses it) that is great for camo. Peels right off and holds paint real well. Has a stock number and if I can remember I will get it for you guys, if on of the in country guys don't before me.
HDR - The scope is the PVS-10 and it is a day night scope. It is a pig of a scope(see comment to Moe :-)) and has caused no end of troubles. Anytime you try to get one thing to do two it seems to get big and fragile. We are not using the pig and have set a contract for a diffrent and seperate night scope for our snipers.
Titan - Lower is the old M16 lower. This prevents the trigger pull changing with each trigger pull through the burst cam. Also gives a good full sized solid stock. Hmmmm, guess that was ansered by Sinister and Alan, oh well, confirmation. :-)
Hold hard guys and Mike keep your head down, you are getting to be an old fart now you know.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 03:00:48 (ZULU)
How do you're guys like the Mono-Loc/PVS-14 set up? It seems like it would work well, with no shift in zero as compared to the SIMRAD, but it pushes ya WAY back off the stock if the scope isn't moved forward. A guy from LRH was commenting about this set up with a NF scope, and how the reticle can be set so dim the naked eye can't see it and probing NOD's don't pick it up, but the PVS-14 could, and mil ranging with the mildot reticle is possible at night with an almost ambient system.
Kevin(Andy's Dad),
I told you so ;)))Welcome to the cult!!!
So how'd you like the recoil? What was the air/ammo temp when you tested? I picked up the H4350 to see if the "Extreme" coating would work as well as it did with Varget. The H4831SC is about 80 fps different from 60 to 105 degrees, and the pressure at 105 causes a pierced primer every one and a while.
I shoud have my tube JR tube tomorrow, and the reamer by Thursday. Then,, I get to wait 6 months to find a GD prone stock.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 03:19:10 (ZULU)
B'town - IN
You have Mail - No Attachments !
Thanks,
BearMan
BearMan <Chad@webescape.com>
Indy, Indiana, U.S.A. - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 03:30:27 (ZULU)
We make this six-year-old, nut-cake son of mine eat his veggies by telling him that, if he doesn't, we won't let him listen to his Hank Williams CD. He went to bed singing "...take these chains off my heart and set me free..."
My wife forbade "Hey good lookin'". It was REALLY getting to her.
What does this kid hear that we don't?
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Monday, January 6, 2003, at 04:30:34 (ZULU)
Chris - Changes the stock position radically. Not bad for the spotter scope as we have bought them for that very reason. No need for the illuminated reticle if 14 is attached to the rear, you can see the reticle fine. Just the long reach to the weapon. H&S Precision makes a stock specifically for that set up and makes it feel better but it still does not feel right. We are putting the NVD in front of the objective lens and it works fine. No zero change and goes on and off easy. The mod PVS-17 worked well too but the recoil causes bruised foreheads. :-)
CDC - Disagree on the ambi safety, especially for a lefty. Have one on my 45 and it works fine and never gave me a problem. Easy one hand sweep of the safety if necessary.
Oh yes, CDC, what your rug rat is hearing is MUSIC, GOOD MUSIC. :-)
Hold Hard guys!
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 05:15:42 (ZULU)
John, on the 1911 ambi safeties, I'm with Wes and CDC. Less is more. I tried them, and some work really well, some don't. In the end, the term I would label them with would not be solidly built. Kings gets my nod for best of breed to my knowlege, but the paddles need slimming. In the end, they wind up parts for trade. For a lefty though, I'd think a good off-hand purpose built safety would be the ticket, like the issue item, just on the wrong side. On the rifling, if there's a way, I haven't been able to tell it. My buttoned ones look like my cut ones, look like my factory ones, with just my naked eye.
CDC, so do you ask him why does he drink, and why does he roll smoke? It could always be worse, backstreet boys comes to mind.
And now M-16 receivers are being recycled. That makes a double. One from old Budweiser cans into receivers, and now from that into other receivers. Maybe one day, we'll have a cold one out of them again, after they've become Buick blocks.
--->Geoff M, you've got e-mail incoming.***
Bruce is volunteering green chile for the burgers. If that doesn't double attendance, then you people don't know what good eating really is. Blower on a Nash, HA! Now why is it that you never see those old design Rugers at the gun shows mixed in with all the new chinese garbage, beef jerky, $200 magazines, jewelry, knives, and maybe a pistol or two?
Dave, how do those guys keep the Kreiger Millazo triggers from de-adjusting in the field? I'd think that anything with adjustments would be a no-no for that kind of work, or at least ones without lock nuts of some kind. "Your Taclight will never work when you want it to, and it will always work when you don't want it to." Seems I recall something about not putting your light in your back pocket either; what, you the toothfairy or an angel? You do that for real, you'll wind up one of them! HA!
Rick, had a good talk with a for-real in the know man on the subject of the battle fielded M-14, his take was very similar to what you gave. I kind of thought it odd to not hand out spares in that situation, but he didn't at all. The only question he had was if the ones your guys are taking have the too-much-fun switch. I'm guessing they do, if they're NOS? His statement about the heavies were that in real use, it takes a bunch, and more than what those guys should see in a long time.
Mk4, don't look too hard. I was told that no jitterbugging would be allowed, although I'm a boot scooter by nature. I was also informed that I wouldn't be leading. The thing that really griped me was the whole "if you scuff my pumps, I'll armwrestle you for the redying fee" fiasco. Well color me silly. Started working on some of the other details this evening, still up in the air, but looking moderately good, especially with Bruce supplying the burger garnish!
Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Monday, January 6, 2003, at 05:26:32 (ZULU)
I like the S&B 10X42 with no.1 reticle and BDC. It workes better than expected at night. The fast-focus eyepiece makes it easy to adjust for the -2 dioptries night eyevision. 15min extra shooting were I live. Unfortunatly I destroyed this scope on a dark night in the woods. Swarovski makes a 8X50 scope with 30mm tube that looks interesting.
BTW. Do you know a source in Germany for a NIB cheap H&K G3 30mm mount?
Rick:
Agree on lighted reticles. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. I try to keep my rifles as simple as possible:
No variable scopes,
No electrics inside scopes,
No scopemount bases, (Tikka action)
No rings if possible, (scopes with rails, still undetected by US shooters :-))
TorF
TorF <torf@aftenposten.no>
Oslo, Norway - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 08:41:16 (ZULU)
Pete L:
Congrats on the piggie! I hope to get one soon, although in the states it is frowned upon to hunt at night.
Steve S:
Best of luck with the treatment! I hope to meet you soon. Card goes out today.
Kevin M:
Buy the Klein D213-9NE if you can find them. All the others just have a fancy (expensive) handle coating that you are going to cut off anyway.
George G:
Can't wait to get my hands on the new stick! When is the next payment due? Will the Badger rings be painted tan also?
Out.
TonyM
TonyM <tam308@aol.com>
FL, US of A!!! - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 13:31:30 (ZULU)
Cool. I was wondering if they were being used by Army, as all I ever see is pics of the PVS10. It would seem that the light signiture from mounting the 14 on the front of the scope would be cut down,, but I would have thought that adding lenses in front of the objective would shift the zero. Glad that it's working out without incodent, as it's a MUCH smaller system than the SIMRAD or PVS10, and can be used for things other than shooting. Not to mension it isn't as big a lens when ya get Jack Lighted or LCMS'd;)) Good to see someone is spending wisely.
HOPEFULLY the Border barrel will be here today. Got a reamer en route... Project "Budget Prone" is under way. Funny thing is,, it's not turning out to be any cheaper than a standard build. Ain't life a kick in the nutz....
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Monday, January 6, 2003, at 13:31:59 (ZULU)
often wondered about those rails on the S&B's. You don't see them in the UK either. Do they clamp on a dovetail and if so what size? Seems you could save a lot of money going down that route, providing the scope bell clears the barrel.
I'm toying with the idea of putting together a light hunting rifle like a 700 mountain rifle or a Steyr Pro hunter mountain in .308 or .260 with a low mounted S&B 3-12x42 (No7 reticle) on it for deer. Just got to find the money first as my wife keeps spending it on new furniture :-((
Jon B
Still trying to talk "her indoors" into letting me do the DSC stalking course . But she is NOT keen on me shooting Bambi. God knows why not, she's a bloody farmers daughter! May just have to do some other shooting course that happens to be on those same dates. he he. That's if she has stopped shopping and left me any money by then!
I've got to build up the Black Budget again.......
Happy new year all
Mark D
Mark Dougan <dougie@mill.co.uk>
Pussywhipped, London, UK - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 13:38:16 (ZULU)
This is shaping up to me one heck of an interesting spring/summer.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Monday, January 6, 2003, at 15:58:37 (ZULU)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14771-2003Jan5.html
Iran. Are we looking at regional war? I'll assume our contingency plans are all written up. This is scary.
http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen010603.asp
Pretty funny analysis of al Qaeda corporate strategy. Especially the last paragraph.
http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins010603.asp
Pray for the boys.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Monday, January 6, 2003, at 17:08:22 (ZULU)
I talked to a buddy of mine the other night and he had read an article on vertical stringing caused by seating depth. I told him I couldn't seat my bullets out any furter becuse of the mag. length.
He wanted me to try it anyway just to see if it made a difference. I told him I would but was out of 142s and would try it with some 140AMAXs.
While digging around for them I found 10 140MKs I had not used. When checking them out I found out they would seat to the lands and I still had plenty of room to fit the magazine.
I went out yesterday and shot at 700yds, in the cold, with a 5 to 7mph cross wind. With the 140MKs I shot a 5 shot into a 4.2" group. The 140AMAXs were better than before but had the wind coming up and got some horzintal spreading but the vertical was within limits.
I orderd another box of the 140 and 142MKs to test them some more. I hope the 140MKs stay tight on out like they did yesterday. If they do I will use them since I can seat them in the magazine. They shoot about 12"s lower at 700yds. This may be because of the BC difference or a different 100yd impact, I hope its the 100yd zero.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Monday, January 6, 2003, at 17:34:29 (ZULU)
That article mentioned the very same thing I talked about a few days ago. The "will to win" and a half assed effort to begin with. I know those pansies exist in the planning department but I hope they don't have any decision making authority. Leaving the bulk of your soldiers as back-up makes as much sense as cruising at 35 mph on the interstate cause your car can do 150 if necessary. You're gonna get creamed from behind right outta the gate. I saw or read somethin about that big floating hospital leaving port the other day. Headed for the Persian Gulf? That ship can save many lives.
Mike D.
You're welcome. The software is called Exbal, at about $50.00 is hard to beat and almost as important as a chrono for long range load development. Keep in mind those numbers are specific to the velocity and enviromental conditions, altitude etc. and that bullet weight.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 17:38:20 (ZULU)
>>>>How the heck am I going to manage Ken M's adventure in late April/ early May, the Allegheny shoot in late May and the SC match in the summer?<<<<
If I can make it, you can make it (just don't know if I can make it yet or not ;)) BUT...will make the maximum effort to be there.
Jaeger,
>>>>>I was told that no jitterbugging would be allowed<<<<
I was counting on a meal AND a SHOW ;))
>>>>>Started working on some of the other details this evening, still up in the air, but looking moderately good, especially with Bruce supplying the burger garnish!<<<<
I've had the privilege of partaking of some of that New Mexico cuisine at Raton (mostly from some fine fellow shooters at the Whittington Center) and its definitely on the up and up; pesole and green chile stew (most definitely). Almost as good as my Fabulous Famous Fried Flank Fajitas w/ Frijoles ;))
--
Now if BKS could round it out with some cajun cooking ;))
--
Question: Does Badger or anybody else make an extended bolt handle for the Winnie 70?
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 18:07:19 (ZULU)
Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
- Monday, January 6, 2003, at 18:46:47 (ZULU)
You have mail. 1 attach. 108kb
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 18:49:40 (ZULU)
Marty makes 'em and George installs 'em. I got one on a M70 in .223 and it's the cats meow. :))
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 18:52:26 (ZULU)
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
occupied people's republic of IL, USA(sorta) - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 19:29:52 (ZULU)
Steve
Steve~Hockeyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
south west, PA, - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 20:10:51 (ZULU)
Didn't get a shot last night, stalking pigs was hard because the damn leaves are noisy when frozen, it was damn cold all night, i don't usualy freeze like that.
Big discussions in the UK on guns and crime at the moment due to the latest shootings, i doubt if any good will come of all the fuss.
Torf, what the hell did you do to the scope? was it a BDMP or a PMII? I'll get you a price on the HK mount, i know i can get one, I don't know about the scopes with the integrated rail, i mean, i do know all about them, have fitted hundreds, but i don't know if they would be a better option than the ring set up. For all that have never seen these European rail mount scopes, on the underside of the scope and actualy part of the scope tube is a rail, or male dove tail, there are a few different types, some are solid and slide into an apposing dove tail on a scope mount, are drilled through and screwed in place,others are detent drilled and screwed in place from the side and underneath, others are hollow and accept a threaded plate which is screwed tight from underneath. Check out any of the Euro scope makers web sites for a close look. What would work is something like the bottom part of a Badger Ord ring that had a dovetail on its upper side instead of the lower half or the ring. EAW makes something like this, but the dove tail is screwed to the lower and the damn screw has a tendency to shoot loose, a different thread is needed i suspect, or some permanent locktite. I've got an illuminated reticle on my S&B, i find that the first setting is almost always bright enough, its hasn't let me down, and i also believe that the modern variable scopes are also reliable, the Brit Army agrees with me.
Mark D, i'm thinking of thet DSC course too, I can get time of work for it, 5 days "Fortbildung" further education holiday is allowed here, and i can use it for any course i like , doesn't have to be work related.. and before you buy a S&B in the UK ask me first, same goes for any hunting shooting kit.( just ask Jon B how much money i saved him over the last year, don't tell his missus though) ref the rifle, find the cheapest, oldest, shot outest Rem 700 you can, let me sort the reciever and trigger out and put a Heym barrel on it, bed it in a HS stock ( i know where i can get em cheap cos there is a smith local here who is building Rem 700's on AICS and has a pile of HS stocks) and i bet the cost is still under what you'd pay for a factory new Rem 700 from a shop, and it'll shoot too. Good choice on the S&B 3-12x42, superb scope. Does your missus eat meat? point out to her that bambi is just another source of food/meat, exept instead of bieng imprisoned in a farmers cage and fed on shit, bambi is free ranging and has a chance to escape death, leads a free life untill it is harvested by you, that you are sick of eating meat that is full of antibiotics and growth hormones and that you want to get you and her back to basic clean eating, point out that anyone who eats meat but is to lazy of frightened to harvest and butcher it them selves and looks down on one who is prepared to do the dirty work must be a hypocrit.Tell her that the hanging of a deers antlers on the wall in the house are not some morbid form death trophies, but are hung their as a tribute and mark of respect to the fine game animal that gave up its life, in a fair chase i might add, to feed you. You may have a chance of converting her, I have had great success with many of my wifes friends by convinceing them of the above, they all look forward to visits to our house because they know they get fed well, with good food, that they know came from some where free of contaminated feed and batery caged conditions.
We now have a bit of snow here, typical, i'm on night shift and then i'm off for 5 days at home, bet when i get back all the snow is gone..
Pete L
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 20:55:51 (ZULU)
Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
USA - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 21:31:26 (ZULU)
Couple of things.
Anyone on the Roster ever use a ballistics program called "Modern Ballistics (http://www.modernballistics.com)? If so can I get some feedback on it? I had posted a copy of Dave King & Peter Cronhelm's Excel based Ballistic Computer and their Ranging Ballistic Computer (with Dave's permission) to the Tactical-Rifle e-mail group. The author of Modern Ballistics posted to the list that folks should compare data from actual firing to the King/Chronhelm computed data (duh), cause past 500 yds it didn't match his actual & computed data obtained with his program. I had already cautioned all to fire for actual data and not to trust any program with out verifying. This guy says that his program is so accurate that his first 3 shots, with out sighters, at 1K were all X ring and asks what is the point of any program if you have to actually shoot to verify the results.
Next - Weapon's safety. Had to go out to Redstone Arsenal today to deliver some materials. Pulled the company van (with contractor's sticker) up to the commercial vehicle checkpoint. It's cold and windy, so the NG EM on duty didn't come out to check. Ok, so I get out and go in. SP4 sitting behind the desk motions me over. Only problem is to get to the desk I got to walk right past the muzzel of the other guys M16 which he has laying across his lap with a 30 round mag in it. I gave the guy with the M16 a look thinking he would raise the muzzel, but no the stupid SOB just looks back. Decision time, do I say something and maybe get in a pissing match and be prevented from making the delivery or do I just ignore the accident waiting to happen? I caved and walked past the muzzel. I'm still pissed though and thinking seriously about calling the Post PM.
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, US of A - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 22:12:48 (ZULU)
Mark D, be a man for God's sake. Stand up to your wife and tell her that you are free to do what you want. It's your money, you earned it, its up to you how you spend it. Just don't tell my missus I said that ;-)
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Monday, January 6, 2003, at 22:14:53 (ZULU)
Nice Christmas.....scored a Ruger MK II stainless comp. target with the checkered thumbrest grips.....lookout squirrelies....
Got little bro. one of them mgm targets and his wife said he shot all of the paint off the first day. This new mountain rifle could serve as a bayonet.....TINY bbl. sure is easy to point and carry though. Politically correct too.....thanks again for the inspiration Sarah.
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 22:29:59 (ZULU)
Who is gunna be shooting a Gas Gun at the SC shoot? I'm thinking of using mine and bringing my Gardner stick as a back up. Irene (Named my stick) shoots well but I want to try the gas gun at a distance of over 500 yds. I have a Springfield scope on it, so I may need the back up gun. Anyone gunna bring a Shepard maybe? hint hint. I know your out there.
Dirty Steve, Out
Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, US of A - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 22:56:28 (ZULU)
A good day!
Left for the range at 0930 this morn. Sunny and clear with visibility unlimited. Best laid plans...:-(...range was fogged in and I couln't even see the targets I put up at 200 yards. Waited until just after 1100 and could shoot then.
Clear and crisp at that point. 40 degrees F. and 2-3 mph right windage...steady. Very unheard of conditions for this time of year.
Shot my .223 PSS against my .308 M40A1 clone. They shot well together to 300 yards. After that the .223 just fell apart, group wise. The .308 just hung in there across the course. In fairness I was shooting 55 grain nosler BT's and not match bullets in the .223.
Fired at 200, 300, 500, and 600. Groups were not phenomenol, but solid and repeatable.
My 600 yard cold bore shot and the rest of the group went dead center and measured 4" center to center. I know the rifle can do better, but I'm definitely the week spot.
Shot off my pack, on the ground, so I'm happy with the results. I said "happy", not PLEASED...
Still, for doping it, dialing it, and dumping it the effort paid off well.
All for now. Have casings to reload.
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Monday, January 6, 2003, at 23:13:55 (ZULU)
Good that you got something to group well. The BC for the 140's is .535,, the 142's .595,, so there could be a decent difference, but I wouldn't think 12".
I'm thinking I may give a couple hundred of the Clinch River 147's a try. They use J4 jackets so they're probably pretty thin,, but I haven't heard of anyone blowing any up. I still may try the 139 Lapuas also. It's tuff load testing with a stick that gonna get less than 2000 rounds through a tube though. Escpecially when the 142's shoot so damn good @ $18 per 100.
Shooter et al.,
We got the dates for the match on March 29/30th. With all that's going on this summer,, is anyone from the roster still interested? 50 shooters max. Let me know,, as I'll be having the "maiden swingers" cut in a week. [Down 'lito,, down boy ;))] Wonder how many guys will be able to shoot through them...... John L? (;
Who's going to the SHOT show this year?
George Gardner,
You have a safe mail incoming, N/A. Did your new guy start last week?
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 00:08:33 (ZULU)
1: Do any of you have experience with Weaver's Grand Slam line of scopes. From what I have found they are on par with the lopy vxIII.
2: Does anyone have experience with the Leopould Wind River line of bino's and spotting scopes. Are they worthy of name or do they fall under the "get what you paid for."
3: Just picked up a new Savage 112bvss in 22-250, it has a 1/12" twist rate, in theory this should like the lighter (40gr)better right? Not an expert on twist rates, trying to learn all I can.
Thanks
Bob
Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne, Ca, USA - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 00:28:18 (ZULU)
Alan, Sinister, and Master Rick, Thanks for the SPR info.
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 00:38:08 (ZULU)
LMAO over Murphy's laws. In Sep '90, we re-oriented our training to CQB and began re-learning alot of lessons --the hard way of course. How else will ya learn? We got a hold of some Jetex (linear shape charges), of the 1 inch flange variety (yeah, bigger than needed). I figured p=plenty, so a strip on the hinged side ought to take a door easy enough. Well, another team was working a scenario down the road...I'm number one for entry, and the charge is burning on a 15 second fuze. Radio in one ear, plug in the other, and a CAR15 harnessed to my chest. First time in with live boolits. I run forward on the fist boom and come face to face with a live charge and smoldering M700 fuze. I turned to run back but got blown sideways. Yep, the other team threw a stun grenade and I reacted to the wrong boom. I don't know about wood in the eyes, but wood in the ass makes it pretty hard to clear a room too! Mang, Murphy was all over us for a whole month of comedy. After screwing it every which way, we got pretty good at going in and shooting BGs. And in the end, we finally caught on that shooting the hostage was a bad thing...but not before we executed many manequins in nomex. A few of these even had large chests. heheh.
Things in the world are moving fast. I hope that my May report date is not too freakin' late for the party!
Rick,
I once entered an "arms room" in Alabama (in '89) that was both well stocked and effing huge! It was wall to wall racks of M14s, M1s and assorted small arms of all US makes (M1919A6, 1911s, 03s, etc). Mostly M14s. It was part of the UW stockage at the time. I wonder what the hell we did with all that stuff? Or is that the pile that our designated marksmen have in their hands? Between Devens, Aberdeen and that 20th group warehouse, I've seen about 5K M14s just sitting around getting dusty. I hope we didn't de-mil those sticks...we're regretting it now if'n we did!
>>I only have one (1911) and I don't want to screw it up<<
So Rich, buy another! Yer named right for that kind of thing! LOL
Dan,
I made the mistake of letting Blake at the Allman Bros CD when he was 4. He would belt out "Tiiiiied to the whipping post" in the shower, and I'd just fall out laughing. Ohhhhh laaaawd I feeeee-uhl, sometimes I feeee-uhl...we'll, I feel for you buddy. Enjoy it while it lasts. Only a dad can know what we mean by that.
And I enjoyed that last paragraph. Hostile takeover indeed. A touch of British humor, that!
Mark S,
"scored" a Ruger? Didya do it with a cratch awl? Or a power tool? Personally, if'n I were to score a ruuuuger, I'd use a sawz-all. heheh. Just kiddin. I've got nuthin against a Ruger--I gave mine away to my father in law years ago. Figured it was the safest gun for me to hand him just before I told him he was about to be a grand-daddy! Heheh. Damn thing wouldn't shoot minute-of-mahon on a good day! Bawwww-haw-haw.
Geoff,
Maybe this Saturday for some shooting (Saturday the range is hot, saturday evening the beer is cold). I got bored shooting all by myself, and the coyotes wouldn't come to my rabbit distress call. They wuz laughing at me from behind the ridge though. The frozen rain wasn't much fun either--I'm still coughing lungs up for that stupid trick. So there's aplenty of boolits left over. Sunday, the make a wish folks are bringing out Trixie the POA for Nicole--so we won't fly the range flag. Nice folks, but a bit liberal around the edges. Wouldn't want them scared off by big, ugly tactical weapons, now would we?
And for an update--Nicole's hair is coming back (for a while anyway), and she is as happy a kid as I've met. Kym--you really made her day, pictures to follow (once developed). She is progressing on the right glide path, and all indications are a go for cure! On DEROS, she'll be in the final phase of treatment. At that point, it'll be a lock. Cannot wait...this thing is like the BG behind the sofa-always there!
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 01:03:29 (ZULU)
What the Hell do they know about "lost highways" and "whippin' posts"?
"...oh lord I feel like I'm dyin'..." indeed.
They must have old souls.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 01:18:38 (ZULU)
Hope all is well with younz. Getting the new year off to a good start around here. I have a few riffle projects in the pile.
I came across a Savage Model 10 Tactical that I don't need. Click on my name for the ad in the Emporium.
Take care out there.
SemperFi,
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <ken@hunters.org>
Snowy Northern, Va, U.SofA. - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 01:26:29 (ZULU)
On the Savage 112, 22/250 with 12 inch twist. 14 inch twist is the traditional twist for .22 centerfires with bullets to 55 gr., so your 12 inch twist should favor heavier than normal .22 centerfire bullets. That isn;t to say it will shoot 80 gr. Sierras, or even 75's. It's possible it MAY shoot 69 grainers, you'll just have to try them. A 12 twist seems to me not to offer much over a 14. I wonder why they did not go faster than 12, considering the large gap between 9 and 14 inch twists that seem to exist.
Louis <Stoner25MKIV@aol.com>
Floyds Knobs, In, - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 01:47:53 (ZULU)
Heads up! I just had a virus from .50Bldr. Got it stopped and cleaned the system, but it may have sent a few back out, since the Klez virus does that.
Haven't sent anyone messages or attachments today. If you got one, beware.
Someone has targeted out group, it looks like.
Reviewed my 600 yard target. Guess I can live with .66 MOA.
Prepping and reloading brass tonight for the next major event.
My best to all...
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 02:05:06 (ZULU)
I had an e-mail returned to me from Jon in the UK. I didn't send it. I ain't been in town for three days.
If anyone gets a mail from me, delete it. I'll tell you on the roster if it's legit.
I also got a mail from brogers. I deleted it.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 02:15:04 (ZULU)
I just received (2) Virus' - A version of the Worm and the one Wes Howe received.
Watch out guys - How can we stop this ASSHO#E???
Headsu up
Thanks for your time,
BearMan
John did you receive my E-Mail from last night? - if not let me know by E-Mail - No attachments please:)
Thanks!
BearMan <Chad@webescape.com>
Indy, Indiana, U.S.A. - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 02:15:33 (ZULU)
Thanks
Steve Burris <skylar.burris@gte.net>
NOVA, VA, USA - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 02:16:15 (ZULU)
OK OK We settled on dates for the match over the weekend . The match will be May 17/18. The format will be a lot like last year except there will be two expanded rounds of sniper golf- short walks between firig points so that we can take maximum advantage of the terain. BYOB&B cookout on Saturday night. Prize raffle based on gear donations. Lots of challenging shooting. Maximum participants will be 30, and because of a promise we made to last years shooters they get first crack at slots. I had planned to send them an Email tonight(it will still go out) and post this next week but I think we can let the dates out and take names as long as everyone understands there are potentially 16 slots filled. Go ahead and email me if you want to shoot. More details to follow. This match should make ASC#1 seem more like an afternoon shooting off a bench at 100yards.
Rod
rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 02:17:06 (ZULU)
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030106-5292244.htm
Rumsfeld is a great historical figure like Pershing or Patton. There's talk that the Iranians are going to surprise attack our forces. I would be very surprised if Rumsfeld walks in unprepared.
If Iran sets a trap for a wolf, they'll catch a tiger.
There's also talk that we're not going in hard enough. That would also surprise me.
Rumsfeld ain't here to bullshit.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 03:45:41 (ZULU)
undude/mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 04:04:49 (ZULU)
After bieng engaged to my fiancee for a year, we decided it was time to tie the knot. My soon to be Motherinlaw,(who happens to be super sexy for her age !) took care of everything, invitations, Church, flowers,reception the lot. Yesterday she called me and asked me to call round to finalise the seating arrangements for my family and freinds. I called around after work and we went over the arrangements a final time. I was speachless when she suddenly said that she had always found me very attractive and that in a weeks time I would be married and "IT" wouldn't be possible any more, she wished for nothing else but to have sex with me, and she wanted that, right now. On her way to the bedroom she said if i wasn't interested I knew where the house door was and could leave. I stood glued to the spot, a full 3 long minutes, then i decided what to do.
I ran to the door and out to the drive.
I found my soon to be Fatherinlaw stood next to my car, laughing with a big smile on his face.
"Congratulations Son, you passed the test,we wanted to make sure our daughter is marrying an honest upstanding young man "he said as he shook my hand and hugged me.
Thank God, i'd left my rubbers in the car !
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 05:30:01 (ZULU)
Godspeed. We're waiting for the SITREP when you return.
Joe M,
Last I heard they rounded up all(?) 10K M14's left in inventory and sent them to Crane for storage. 1K were checked out and sent to the USMC and USN (SEALS) for conversion to the (X)M25 spec. I also know that some were used by the Army to blow up unexploded cluster bomblets left on the runways after the airfields were taken in A'stan.
Dan,
Send me your mailing address and I'll mail you a Buck Owens and the Buckaroos CD. They'll really love "Cryin' Time" and "Drunk Again" at your house LOL!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 05:47:11 (ZULU)
FWIW, it don't matter to me whether it "actually" was loaded or not. Unless I personally clear the weapon, it's loaded to me. I did call the PM's office and spoke to the NCOIC of the NG guard detail. He was pissed and assured me they are in fact loaded mags & empty chambers. He also assured me that immediate steps would be taken to correct the "deficiency". Realize that these NG troopies have been activated specifcally to augment the MP & DOD guards at an active Army post that is considered a likely target cause the newly combined Army Aviation & Missile Command is located there. They also pull duty at SMD Hq in town. BTW I was in for 10 myself and at every post, gate and/or compound guards had live ammo.
Don
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
- Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 06:23:15 (ZULU)
I have a long record at S&B servicedep. :-)
1.5-6x42 Sniper. Internal parts disintegrated while trying to learn how to doubletap/tripletap at long range with a G3 set on fullauto. H&K scopemount destroyed. Scope replaced by S&B. You live and learn... I actually hit quite well.
10x42 huntingscope with cusomfitted BDC by S&B. Scope utterly destroyed in a fall.
6x42 Sniper (NM149) slightly bent in a fall and fogged up. S&B rebuilt the scope at no cost.
Scopes with rails:
I have a H&K 770 and a SL6. Both have H&K 05 mount with regular rail scopes. No drilling in scoperail on this mount. Look very neat. Return to zero is sub moa. on my rifles. http://www.hkpro.com/hk770.htm
Zeiss VM scopes in EAW mount mod. 1271 bestell-nr. 1271-00000 fit directly in the milled rails on Tikka actions. With proper bases they fit almost all rifles.
The best thing with railed scopes are no stress in the tube itself. The tube is also much stiffer, especially on 8x56 scopes with 1" tube. A couple of shootingbuddies have the new Zeiss VM/V 5-15x42. One with rail, one without. The railed one has no vibration.
TorF
TorF <torf@aftenposten.no>
- Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 09:38:41 (ZULU)
Thats Hilarious!!
Alan,
I'm only 30 minutes from Crane, I'll run down and take a look. NOT. We did a couple "jobs" down there several years ago. I don't remember all the details, coulda been the coffee the Made us drink, but we did have to leave all lighters, cigarettes, anything that smoked or burned or made a flame in the guard house. There is a lot more to that place than meets the public eye.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 10:39:37 (ZULU)
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 11:10:05 (ZULU)
Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 14:15:47 (ZULU)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19472-2003Jan6.html
Alan: That may be an idea. It's been all Hank all the time since Christmas. It's getting to me.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 14:30:36 (ZULU)
Mike, Stay Safe..
Only one other guy is taking a gas gun to the match. He contacted me off the roster. He said he didn't post it and scare you bolt only guys away ;)
Ditry Steve, Out
Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, US of A - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 15:29:41 (ZULU)
Tell Jaeger I'll look forward to seeing him there ;)))
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 15:46:56 (ZULU)
TorF - Have messed with the Kaules(sp?) integrated ring scope but was not impressed. Heavy body but some of that was due to an illuminated reticle with an elevation indicator in the reticle. Good idea but dam the thing was big and heavy. I did like the idea of an elevation indicator in the scope reticle but just another thing to go broke at the worst possible time.
Chris - Actually it is not hte PVS-14 in front of the lens but another scope designed for that purpose and is one reason why htere is no shift in zero. The new mount also aloows for additional mounting of goodies to help the sniper and observer.
Pete L. - On the varibles, we are going to them as they ahve toughened them up enough to be soldier proof, well almost. Believe the Marines are looking at them as well.
Don Smith - Have not used his ballistics program as I have Sierra, Exbal, and the Don King special. However, the auther is also the auther of the book Modern Ballistics and his background is that of computing ballistic trajectories of missles on a GRAND scale. His book is complicated but makes good sense. One of my fellow instructors got his ballistic program sometime ago but I have not worked with it. That instructor is now off to newer assignements.
Joe M. - Don't forget that Clinton destroyed a bunch of weapons before congress and the Republicans got him stopped. But yes there are a large number of never fired M14s, M1s, 1911s, etc still in the inventory. Actually there are still M3s in the Grease gun and the M1 Carbine style still in the inventory.
Well got to go back to work.
Hold Hard Guys!
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 15:47:26 (ZULU)
I am in the process of selling a rifle and i am going to need to ship it out-of-state. Exactly what is the legal procedure for this. I believe that it must go from FFL to FFL, but I have been told by a guy "with an ATF agent friend" that you can just ship straight up with UPS. So what gives? I don't want to break any laws.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim Wise <jim5656@hotmail.com>
Frostproof, Florida, USA - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 15:50:26 (ZULU)
On the Fed level, all you need is a signed copy of the dealer's FFL in your hot little hands and you can ship directly to him via UPS, USPS, or Fed-Ex. Sent one out to FL on 12-27 via UPS that way. Checked with the USPS and they said I could ship via them also but was more expensive. Of course any state laws must also be obeyed.
Don
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, US of A - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 16:44:10 (ZULU)
Let us know when you return.
SEMPER-FI!!
Spud
dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
me, KA, usa - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 16:53:58 (ZULU)
http://www.washtimes.com/national/pruden.htm
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 17:04:47 (ZULU)
Maybe if you shoot your gas gun I can give you more competition. :-))
HDR <hprudisell@aol.com>
OK, - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 17:51:05 (ZULU)
Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://www.defenselink.mil/news/dodnews.html#e-mail
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 20:21:21 (ZULU)
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
LakeCormorant, MS, - Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 22:31:11 (ZULU)
I have a FFL and all of my ATF stuff says you have to ship to a FFL once you receive a SIGNED copy of his license. I haven't found anything that says you must have a FFL ship to a FFL.
LATER
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 00:22:54 (ZULU)
Tell Jaeger I'll look forward to seeing him there ;)))
Mk4
Mk4, not me! What, you think I'd be playing for anything other than winning? OK, maybe. Maybe a cute little lightweight number in 223, if I've got to lug stuff all over the hillside 8p Since my first two kneejerk choices of partners have backed out on me, we'll have to see what kind of a slot I get, that'll let me know what I'm carrying. Besides, I haven't got all the good stuff yet to get a custom BDC for the scope. And I've still got another couple of OTHERjerk choices of partners to hear from.
Speaking of which, that shop that does the custom mark4 m3 BDC's, do they do a double tier? MOA ticks up top, yardage markers (hopefully in half MOA increments) down below? When I say that last part, I mean the "4" between the MOA ticks. Maybe cute little arrows. No, lucky horse shoes. Make that green shamrocks. Yeah, that's the ticket, pour a bowl of lucky charms into the adjustment cap, and call it rations, as long as I shoot better, that's all I care.
Rick, that's downright interesting! Never heard of any breakages with the heavies that early. I'm not doubting you at all, just never heard of it in my circles. Maybe a bad new part? In my head, I had four digits, not three. You're right, that's not even a chance to reload mags LOL. Just out of curiousity, why not give them a second cylinder plug, oversized reservoir, with a slight vent? It wouldn't take long, or much effort either one, to fit it, and they'd reduce slamming on the rod to the point it didn't matter. It'd suck rocks to use ball with it in, but that's why I said second, how long it take to change a plug? Maybe it wouldn't be all that bad, just a straight pull bolt gun. One of these guys has it to an art form, keep adjusting it out until the brass hits about 1 foot away, a little limp for my taste. For these kinds of applications, I'd go a bit more 8p
Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 02:49:43 (ZULU)
Officer and company had made a buy of some substance, suspect deems it necessary to go into the convenience store ( no involvement by owners) right after the buy.
Female officer pursues, dressed in street attire for the most part, wearing ski mask and with pistol drawn. Store clerk looks up, sees what he thinks is a BG, fires one round. It's on target, officer hit upper left torso from diagonal.
Just learned she will pay for a momentary lapse in situational awareness with the use of her legs...............forever it seems.
You guys that do this.........Thanks.
But please, we want you all home every night just like your loved ones do, so for God sake, think about what the bystanders see when you pull one of these.
Say one for this officer tonight. She needs it.
Mike in Texas <mcdonald@hcn.hcnews.com>
Granbury, Texas, - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 04:54:11 (ZULU)
I agree, Buck sure ain't no Hank - that's for sure. Blake should be getting a package shortly. Question is, can Buck drive you nuts quicker than Hank did? My bet is - hell yes!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 05:20:32 (ZULU)
All actions are in house and being machined already, Mike has the first batch of barrels on the way. Everything is looking good. Hopfully the stocks show ontime. If it all works out everyone will have there rifles for the S.C. Match.
S.C. Rifle Markings. will be: Left S.C.L.E. Rifle # XX of 50. Will be in 3/8 heieght in a Gothic Font. G.A. Logo on oposeing side.
Rings will be black (like the scope)
I will most definatly make the S.C. Match. May even shoot an AR-10 myself. My AR-10 seems to like the Badlands Steel.
George Out.
George Gardner, G.A. Precision <a10xrifle@aol.com>
Kansas City, MO, USA - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 06:29:36 (ZULU)
TBurkes <tburkes@sbcglobal.net>
Alvin, Tx, USA - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 13:11:33 (ZULU)
Mike in Texas, you've got it amigo.
Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 14:01:44 (ZULU)
Bruce, Bobby, and Sarge,
Sorry to hear about Suttles. I had the chance to meet him briefly when I went through the NGMTU Scout/Sniper School several years back and again at one of the Winston matches. Card is on the way and I'll pass the word along to some of the guys in my old unit that have met him.
Anyone have any good info on Blackwater Training? I hear they have a 1,200 yard range. It's the closest place to Va. Beach I can find that has any distance. Do they allow "civies" to head over there and shoot? If not, anyone know of any other spots around Hampton Roads where one can go shoot?
Thanks,
Chris too
Chris Workman <cworkman@esiofva.com>
Va Beach, VA, - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 14:05:37 (ZULU)
Call me at home.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 14:22:41 (ZULU)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25025-2003Jan7.html
Alan: You may have a point. "Looks like I've got a tiger by the tail" five times a day would drive the Dali Lama to drugs.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 14:53:17 (ZULU)
Blackwater is a great place for training and yes they do allow civilians in classes however some classes are LE/Military only. I attended the Chandler Precision Rifle Course Part 1 last year and it was great. If I lived as close as you I would be there all the time. If you click on my name down below it will bring you to a review of the class I took that I wrote. Here's Blackwater's site if you haven't looked at it yet www.blackwaterlodge.com
Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
- Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 15:50:07 (ZULU)
That's one of, if not, the most accurate and comprehendable assesments I've read so far. Nuthin but the facts, ma'am.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 15:51:47 (ZULU)
To those of you who shot #1, it's time to put on your thinking caps!
I'd Like to know which sniper golf shots were your favorites and which you thought were the least interesting/educational or, totally irrelevent.
If you were designing this years match, based on your memory of the terrain and the opportunities it presents, what type of shots would you add or delete. What skills were not tested? Would you add more small or big targets? Would you add more forced position shooting?
Whatever your thoughts are, I'd like to here from you, either here on the Roster or off line. A discussion on the Roster would stimulate the anticipation factor but might be a waste of band width..
Those of you who didn't shoot last years match, please feel free to chime in..What skills should be tested in a one day time period from 12 to 16 different firing points..Essentially every position last year involved a UKD cold bore shot with the opportunity for one follow up shot for score if the first was a miss. That will remain the same this year. Opening exercises involved, and will again, a cold bore and a group.
I look forward to your input as we plan ASC#2..
outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Thinkin' of Spring in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 16:02:06 (ZULU)
Try to email me again. My response to your questions about ASC#2 keep bouncing. The note that comes back says your "address has permanent fatal errors". That doesn't sound good-almost like being dead forever.
Rod
rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
Looking forward to ASC#2, - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 16:03:19 (ZULU)
I'll email from a different address.... could you forward the messages to Ken Hunter.... may be something on his end as it is a "riflemen.net" address.
Thanks, Steve
Steve ` hockeyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
- Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 16:58:20 (ZULU)
I really enjoyed the walk in the woods and the movement from point to point that was "sniper golf". The targets were challenging (read GREAT!). Here's what would in my opinion make it better...
-firing from concealment, perhaps even an observed FFP. Maybe two teams competing to get the first shot off without being spotted..
-firing under mild stress (you will recall my fantastic shot on the wrong target during the counter sniper/spotter setup last year...
-developing dope on the spot and creating effective shooting positions in an improptu manner was fun and should be emphasized.
-Coordinated multi-target engagements...perhaps two or three spotter/shooter teams tasked at the same time
-targets of opportunity.... walking along the trail, referee calls out a target, assigns a shooter and gives him a finite amount of time to drop and make the shot... perhaps not enough time to range... must use a SWAG dope. Taget could be within pistol or spotter weapon range, to further complicate the decision making process.
-Spotter / shooter switch weapons for a shot.
-Firing from concealment... shooter must remain concealed while setting up shot...has only 15 second opportunities to collect visual range info and/or take the shot.. simulating a duel with a small unit of assault weapon equipped troops.
-contingency scenarios... rules change mid-way through engagement...adapt and overcome..
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 17:04:11 (ZULU)
I just got an email from Ken regarding the bounce.... we'll work it out. Please diregard request to forward.
Thanks
Steve ~ hockeyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
- Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 17:16:46 (ZULU)
Think you mean signed copy of the dealer's FFL. That's the only way it's legal.
Don
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, US of A - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 18:33:50 (ZULU)
Private party can ship Long Gun TO FFL from home. Shipper needs to see signed copy of FFL the weapon is GOING to.
A handgun needs to go from FFL to FFL. And each needs the other's FFL before shipping.
Spud,
Out
Your LOCAL laws may vary...
A local gunsmith would be a good source of info.
Spud
d <usmcspud@msn.com>
merced, KA, usa - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 19:00:03 (ZULU)
Happy New Year from a low post-count FNG. I'm hoping to make it to Badlands if only to listen, learn, and give Steve Suttles a big hug. Just a handshake for Bobby, though. ;)
BTW, I've recently fallen in with a bad crowd - they shoot these odd-looking rifles that have all kinds of doodads and geegaws like "charging handles", "forward-assist plungers", "gas tubes"...it's all greek to me but they tell me to not worry and keep loading magazines. If I'm good they promise to introduce me to "Lula" (better not tell the wife 'bout this, I guess).
In the meantime, I'll be working on playing with a Leupy Mk4 M3 the wife got me after the fall shoot at Badlands. I still suck, but it's one less thing I can blame for said suckiness.
Be well, be safe, be on target.
BTW, the email link is no longer vailid. gopackgo@attbi.com is my current addy.
El_Roto <gopack@sprintmail.com>
Carrollton, TX, U.S. of A - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 19:32:21 (ZULU)
The Ruuuug-gar in question was a M77--and no, it couldn't hold a minute of mahon, but the really good news was my new "dad in law" was happy enough with the gift that he overlooked his yet unmarried knocked up daughter...and I never had to dodge any incoming rounds...
As for rug's in the pistola category--I won't even acknowledge the existance of an autoloader in that brand, let alone give one to someone I want to call a friend! Heheh. The Wheelguns are a different story...but I only own S&W for some damned reason...I think it was the factory triggers...MOA with a pistol? I'm happy with 2" at 25 yard! Now why would ya even think sumtin' like that???? Mang, my superhuman immortal days are long since past...:))LOL
Ken M,
I got way-laid by higher yesterday. On the road playing ringmaster for a three-ring circus, the usual stuff. I will be on McCoy again Thursday to do that which needs done for us'ns. I'll call you around lunch time with the particulars. Well that's the plan, so long as there isn't another JTYA (jump through yer ass) emergency. My apologies for Tuesday.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 19:59:20 (ZULU)
South Cushman St in Fairbanks had an auction once a month--and there was this Loopy 3-9 that I wanted. My winning bid was 90 bucks. I gave the metal thing under the scope away....
And my father in law now owns a M77 in 300WM.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 20:05:30 (ZULU)
According to the ATF web site, it is legal for an individual to ship *any* firearm to a licensed FFL. I have acquired MG, handguns and rifles in that manner, shipped from out-of-state individuals to my FFL dealer.
see http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/qa.pdf
see question B9
Getting the receiver's signed FFL copy is a requirement for dealers, not for individuals. It is a good idea, though. The shipper might want to see it, and it plus the shipping paperwork are proof that the sender shipped it to a legit receiver.
It looks like the dealers involved in the transfer below got together after the letterhead was provided.
Stay safe, stay legal!
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
- Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 20:11:01 (ZULU)
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-bandow010803.asp
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 21:36:08 (ZULU)
I found some info that looks like an FFL here can file for a special Import License and that some forms are required but I couldn't find the forms to see what info is required.
Since this might be a long process any links would be appreciated.
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 22:00:42 (ZULU)
I figgerd you was talking 'bout them 77s. Just thought I'd jerk back on that chain a little ;) Although I do have one of them 77s about 20 years old with a heavy bbl. in 22-250 floated and bedded that shoots moa groups.
Prayers and best wishes to the little one!
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
LakeCormorant, MS, - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 22:10:58 (ZULU)
I'll take the foot outta my mouth so'z you can better understand me! I completely forgot about the MkII .22s. Those are really fun little training tools. And for all of my hunting buddies that bought (and kept) a Ruger, it was because they got one that was right. The 300 rug I had grouped at 2" with 180 gr federal premium factory--with anything else it became a red label!
For every rifle that ever let me down, I just put them on my shit-list. There are no second chances. My Sakos' have spoiled me rotten. The list of factory rifles no longer welcome in my safe include A-bolts, M700/M7s and M77s. Winneys have treated me to expectations without fail, and I like remmies that a good smith got a hold of before I did. I accept my hatred as irrational and I am good with it. I know the A-bolt has probably come along with the BOSS and that workmanship can be cyclical, but with rifles, first impressions are everything! Hell, if I gotta get old, I gotta get set in my ways...
My son Blake and I cleaned out the barn (ok, I secretly hate horses) and discovered a really fun way to get this done. Once the old F150 had a full bed o'crap I gave Blake a driving lesson. The Beanfield had a good coat of freezing rain, so I taught him how to do doughnuts. With the tailgate down. We spread manure rather nicely, although the wife wasn't amused when she saw who was driving. Mang, these farm-girls sure take their chores too seriously. Heheh, like the first brush-burn I did in the "pit"--flames forty feet high--she was freakin'! Apparently, a farmer must be serious at all times. If that's so, then I am destined to be a lousy farmer! I just hope she never catches me doing wheelies with the lil' tractor!!!!
Geoff,
Get the directions yet? Call if they aren't clear, there is an easier route that is a bit longer.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 23:21:43 (ZULU)
Andy would love to bring his M4 and show off a little. Handgun would be fun but not everybody does that. Andy and I would be happy to shoot for anybody that can't shoot for themselves. Toss the scores in a hat and and draw for them. We loved the match last year and anything you decide will be ok by us.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 23:25:02 (ZULU)
Sounds like Pakistan and AlQueerda/Talibut want to play "kick the can". Worse yet, it sounds like Washington is agreeing to the rules.
ASC#2,
Didn't make the first one but If given the opprotunity, I'll make #2. Whatever works for you guys will work for me. I do like some of Medicjims' ideas and scenarios. I've never done the ghillie suit crawl but I can learn most anythin. I can flounder with the best of 'em. :)) The 300 yard movers @ SMTC were really a challenge for me even with very little wind. Some kind of movers would be good.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 23:46:26 (ZULU)
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
occupied people's republic of IL, USA(sorta) - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 00:12:08 (ZULU)
Figures youze would have a big get-together right after my port-call. The way things are moving, I'll be lucky to squeeze time for Blake and I to get down to the basic rifle course. That is actually a must-do before I go off for a year. Gotta have that all-important man to young man talk, and the badlands sounds like just the right place. I'll see this weekend if he's up to a 308 or if he needs to stick with his baby-stealth.
Anyone have a favorite factory load for their .223 stealth?
I've been shooting everything from 55gr to 69gr with good results out to 300 yds, but I haven't worked it for accuracy yet--and time is running out. My criteria for it was 1" or less at 100, then boiler hits on coyotes inside of 300. Not exactly match grade results...in other words, I have no real idea what happens at longer ranges. I think my procrastination has bit me in the butt again, but I'll worry about that tomorrow. heheh.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 00:24:33 (ZULU)
You have mail..No attachments, and was scanned on this end.
Bobby Whittington <bwhittington@badlandstactical.net>
Grandfield, OK, USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 00:57:18 (ZULU)
I'm heading up to Chetek, Wisc. in a couple weeks for a 4 day weekend. Anyone up that way that can tell me of anything interesting to visit, firearms related? Much apreciated....
Louis <Stoner25MKIV@aol.com>
Floyds Knobs, In, - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 01:25:03 (ZULU)
You may remember a problem I bugged you guys about with my factory-fresh Stealth .223. The tight, burred chamber neck.
Well Winchester service got it back to me and I have since put 60 rnds thru it on sun.
Reloads w/ Varget and BLC-2, Fed match-prepped once-fired cases, WSR primers, and 75 gr A-maxs, 69 gr Sierra MKs, and some 50 gr Speer TNTs (for fun).
It shot so damned well that I was able to cull cases. Sub-moa w/ an occasional called flyer. The unexplained flyer cases are now in the bag o' brass for the mini. (I know, I know...).
The folks at Winchester service DID NOT re-adjust my trigger or dick-up my bedding job, either. Thanks Winchester.
I'm a happy old fart.
And speaking of Ruger rifles. I have had some ok and some not. But I recently took a chance on a swap for a 243 #1 full-stock model. Mounted my litle VXII tac Loopy and put 6 WW 100gr Power-Points into 1" at 100. Just may have to keep the cute little thing. And the bbl. is SMOOOOOOOTH as a (you-pick-what). So I got VERY lucky w/ THIS one.
NOT WANTING A REHASH OF THE RUGER WARS!!! Just tellin' a story, fellas.
Just BSin'.
Spud
Dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
Merced, Kalisocialistfornia, USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 02:09:14 (ZULU)
I'm considering a low-power variable scope for my tactical carbine. What I need to know is: is there anything out there in the 1-4X to 2-7X that doesn't have a noticable change in eye relief when the power is changed?
I have a Leupold 1-4 on my 375 big boomer, and it changes maybe 1-1.5 inches between 1 and 4X. I can live with it since if I have to "do battle" with somthing appropriate for such a cannon, I have it on 1X, and if I need 4X I have time to adapt my hold to compensate. I'd hate to have to do that in a situation where I don't have time.
Any suggestions would be immensly appreciated!
Steve <nsege@centurytel.net>
lakeview, Oregon, USofA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 02:30:53 (ZULU)
John <one338winmag@hotmail.com>
Liberty, TX, - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 02:49:01 (ZULU)
Look at www.atf.treas.gov/firearms and look for importation and Form 6 information. On a page from the F & E import link there is an address and phone number to the ATF import department.
E-mail;
I want to request a fire mission on the crack licker that keeps screwing with the e-mail.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 02:54:31 (ZULU)
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 03:53:04 (ZULU)
Whose?
"TELLS TROOPS, "DO NOT FEAR AMERICAN ARROWS...""
Absolutely right. Screw the arrows. Fear the JDAMS.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 04:11:33 (ZULU)
>>>>>Had 2 hour refresher on Small Pox tonight. Getting ready to have to make the decision on whether to do the vaccine thing again. Skeddy, veddy skeddy!<<<<<
Bolt,
Thinking about the same thing myself. Let me know how it turns out. If you go ahead and aren't delusional, frothing at the mouth, throwing up, w/diahrrea, headaches, nauseated, or (gasp) dead, I'll think about it some more ;))
--
News Flash:
Recently, Lubbock, Texas was named as the first city in the United States to be the host of a very timely and important training program.
Only 3 cities in the Nation will be honored to have such an event, and
Lubbock is the first with the training scheduled on March 18, 19, and
20, 2003. The program, Integrated Health and Medical Weapons of Mass
Destruction (WMD) Training Program, is considered by many to be a
training breakthrough, i.e., the "first of its kind" course that fully
integrates three critically important groups of medical and health care professionals who respond across the W.D. patient care continuum.
These participants comprise three training groups:
' Group 1 - First responders, i.e., emergency medical services (EMS)
' Group 2 - Hospital emergency department clinicians/technicians
' Group 3 - Hospital administration staff
--
My opinion about WMDs is to stay the HELL away from the infected or contaminated area and if you do get caught in it....make your peace with God VERY QUICKLY. You can't work in it and even if properly equipped, only for an extremely limited time. Col. David Hackworth had an interesting article about this very thing in the latest SOF. Better to nuke the bastards before they even think about using such weapons. According to the Col., there are more than 170,000 dead and disabled as a result of Desert Storm. I've not heard this before. That's a pretty astounding statement.
I'd like to know where Col. Hackworth gets his figures. Can anybody verify them?
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 05:28:15 (ZULU)
I have been a lurker for monthes. I have been lucky enough to have had two great teachers over the years. The first was Charles Byers aka Chuck. He owned and operated a couple of businesses in Tempe Arizona. If anyone can put me in contact with him I would be greatly appreciated, he will know me. The other great teacher I have been fortunate to work with is Paul Kelly(finest shooter I have ever met and one damn good man). He has had a career that rivals any fictional story ever written. He asked me to dig around and see if any of the old gang is still kicking. Paul ran around with a spook(CIA)by the nickname Brannigan. Thank you for your time.
Please e-mail me direct
gwif@your-net.com
Sincerely Glenn Frank
I wish that I could add "Semper Fi" or "De Oppresso Libre" but alas I am a lowly flyboy and have no inspirational addendums.....
Glenn Frank <gwif@your-net.com>
Franklin, Ohio, - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 07:26:07 (ZULU)
Sorry to be posting something about pistols on a sniper site..
Sincerely Glenn Frank
I wish that I could add "Semper Fi" or "De Oppresso Libre" But alas I am a lowly flyboy and we have no such inspirational addendums.
Glenn Frank <gwif@your-net.com>
Franklin, Ohio, - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 08:04:23 (ZULU)
Val the cloggie, and just for Val, Leupolds, especialy the ones sold in Holland !! suck !!ha ha double ha, and Hakko's are even worse.
Jon B.. that wandering zero wouldn't be that top of the range Hakko (nxs) now would it.. also double ha...
that will have humerously ruffled a few feathers, now i better get ready for the insults in welsh and dutch.
back to this Frankfurt Airport thing, some nut case, who was apparently in love( dunno if he was just a fan or actualy intimate) with the female that died when the shuttle went bang, decided he'd had enough, what better way to end it than to steal a plane and fly it into the telecom tower in Frankfurt, any how, he flew around a bit, long enough to get the Luftwaffe scrambled, who then flew around in circles behind him. He landed at FF Main airport when he ran out of fuel and was then arrested. Apparently this fiasco highlighted the total unpreparedness of any of the german authorities to react to the terrorist threat, lots of discussion about that here at the mo. But hell, it doesn't take some love struck nut case to work out that if the shit hits the fan, Mr Schroeder will see that he has been saving his damn euro cents in all the wrong places., I could have told em that the security, country wide sucks.
Whats this new (or old) remington 6...whatever guide rifle? that would be a good base for a 450 marlin bolt gun? or not.
Well its -12 C here, good day to test the cold bore shot on the 300m range. Best i go see if the squaddies are using it. Pete
PS. paul Cockerham, drop me a mail buddy, i need you to do me a favour and the email addy i have for you here won't work. cheers mate.
Peter Lincoln <anke_pete@t-online.de>
D - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 08:19:07 (ZULU)
Best .223 load I have found is 26 to 26.5 grs of either H-335 or W748 with a 50gr VMAX, NozzlerBT or a 55gr Sierra. This load will shoot in anything I have ever shot it in.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 13:00:11 (ZULU)
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 13:41:17 (ZULU)
Factory loads,? Try the Black Hills Remanufactured stuff. 52gr. match bullet. I got some in the deal when I bought my .223 stealth and it shoots 'em in the less than .5 moa category. Makes me wonder why I reload the little buggers. I agree with Pat on thr reloaded stuff. I use the same 2 powders. With the W748 I use a mag. primer cause it's a full case of dense powder(small grains).
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 13:41:39 (ZULU)
Thanks in advance,
drmarc
drmarc <drmarc@se-tel.com>
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 15:13:10 (ZULU)
Where the hell is 'Yote bait? There's fresh chum in the water!
Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 15:21:30 (ZULU)
Chetek is about 40 minutes north. There's a Class III dealer in Chippewa Falls (by the tank farm just before you hit 53 North). Dude has some interesting items in spite of himself. Then, up more your way, there's a little 800 acre range/ skeet/ bird compound in Bloomer--and a great little restaraunt that serves all you can eat prime rib (The View). Snowmobile racing is huge, but that would take some damn snow...Otherwise, plan on coming down to Eau Claire for anything else. I live about 15 miles south of the exit you'll take off I-94 to get up there...email me with more specifics on what you're looking for.
It would be nice to have the option on whether or not to get another small-pox vac! (grin)
On Hackworth's 170k casualties from GW numba 1; all my friends and neighbors are still kicking. Granted, it's mostly SF/ airborne folks; but you'd think out of 20% of the fielded force--maybe I would know at least one dead or seriously ill guy??? I have met one guy who was in ill health...supposedly it was gulf syndrome--but it ended up being parkinson's. So I ask, "What exactly is a hack worth?"
Hmmm, an outbreak of the stomach virus in Boston? I'm betting in 2-3 years, we'll look back and say "damn, we wuz attacked..."
Thanks for the good start with the .223, gents. Now I have a narrow field to work in for the stealth. Time is the enemy now.
I just realized what a year is to my littlest kids. 35 and 25 percent of their lives, respectively. It will go by quick for me, but those little "daddy's girls" will have a tougher go of it. Last time, I made this connection AFTER I got back. Being young and dumb has it's advantages...
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 15:32:23 (ZULU)
On a M70 Win. I had to use the High Badgers. Med wouldn't allow the AO to Adjust. FWIW.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 15:44:28 (ZULU)
You have mail. Large attachment. Clean.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 16:25:02 (ZULU)
Good question.
I want to know where he got his figures. As I said before, that's an astounding statement.
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 16:27:20 (ZULU)
I've had both a Remmy and a Winnie with heavy barrels using that scope, and the Remmy worked with medium rings while the Winnie needed high rings. So, I suspect that the mediums will work for you.
Don
Don K. <ussr@clarityconnect.com>
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 16:45:43 (ZULU)
This link is along the same lines, in the same jurisdiction:
http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20030109-78847680.htm
Grrrrrrr.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 17:15:16 (ZULU)
Just when "Pistol Wars" finally ends and things get back to as close to normal as they ever get around here, along comes another damn troll :-). Anyone got a good troll load in .308?
On second thought, maybe this will draw yotebait out of his hide. Starting to miss the old reprobate.
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, US of A - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 17:23:50 (ZULU)
I've go an even more astounding statistic. 77 million American women annually are murdered, beaten, raped, abused, or irritated by their husbands.
My best professional guess is that - similar to the above "statistic" - the 170k number is double distilled bullshit.
I can easily come up with a "syndrome" for any subset of the population you define. Right away some members of that subset are going to start having problems: Nausea, blurry vision, insomnia, whatever.
Service members who are injured in the line of duty should be respected and cared for. But if you let some hack lawyer go fishing in any database, he's going to be able to torture the data into confessing to anything.
I read Hackworth's "About Face". You have to hand it to the guy; he was a great combat soldier. He deserves our fawning respect but a statistician is a statistician and a combat soldier is a combat soldier.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 17:34:14 (ZULU)
I am in need of getting intouch with you.
Please E-mail me.
Thanks.
Stuart S. Sattler <lazyandfat@aol.com>
Wa, U.S.of A. - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 18:17:36 (ZULU)
This is not shooting related but Joe M. forgot to mention the Leinenkugel Brewing Company in Chippewa Falls. You need to do some extensive product sampling here.
JLU
Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 18:33:50 (ZULU)
Apologize for the flash but I was offered a deal today and need any real world info I can get on a .50 Beowolf on a RRA rifle. Built by Alexander Arms- I will check their site later but this deal passes by tomorrow afternoon. Money looks good, just know nada on how this cartridge performs or whether the AR reciever will stand this cartridge without premature wear. Pitch is this was designed with DOD research money but no info on whether it was adopted by Mil or passed over for problems.
Thanks,
Bill
Bill Moore <lmalterna@aol.com>
Goodview, VA, USA USA USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 19:02:50 (ZULU)
Mk4, could you e-mail me info on those classes in tx?.
Thanks
Bob
Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne, Ca, USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 19:36:44 (ZULU)
Bob
Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne, Ca, USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 21:10:51 (ZULU)
Robert H.
Email sent w/attachment.
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 21:26:30 (ZULU)
Shooting topic... anyone seen a listing for an AR10A4 upper for sale by someone reputable...I'm looking for a flat-top, preferably 16".
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 21:34:50 (ZULU)
You got mail. No attachments, no virus.
Don
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, US of A - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 22:27:13 (ZULU)
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 22:27:24 (ZULU)
With a Badger base, you can use Medium rings P/N 306-20.
Marty
Marty <badgerord@aol.com>
- Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 22:29:28 (ZULU)
I left my cell phone number on your answering machine. Call me. I just had a very interesting conversation reference the April shoot at McCoy. First, it is too easy to do it. Second, timing is everything, and our current timing sucks baaaadddd. Let's just say that I am glad I am leaving. Traffic will suck around here real soon :)) I'm blasting an email for back-up.
Gents,
The use of this post for comps can be arranged with a simple concept paper/ request from your agency or organization (strap hangers can fall-in with the unit/ group no problems). The only thing needed is a LE or Mil sponsor. I'm not going to post the POC here, but I will reply to email inquiries from any of you that I know. Unit/ LE reps-include addresses/ agency in your email-I'll send a range book with certification requirements, phone listings, and a 1 page info paper on how to do it from start to finish. Well, at least for the first ten of ya...whudda I gittin me-self into here???
This POC staffs the whole deal herself. She gets Command Group OK, then arranges Barracks, Chow (mil-free, the rest pay as you go), tours/ briefs, Ranges (by Type), internal transportation, everything! MREs for one a day could be arranged too. Like I said, too easy! A good schedule for this:
WED-PM Arrivals
THUR-Tours, briefs, safety overview (range ops SOP), then zero at KD
FRI-AM, KD PM-Comps
SAT-AM Comps, PM-Sniper range (movers)-Possible CAPEX with drill-units
SUN- Brunch/ departure
This can be set up any way at all...best months (usually) are March thru Late May, and Mid-August through November. DEC-FEB is too cold, and the summer is AT time.
Now, if we lay on for April, there is a better than even chance that we would be "cancelled" at any point right up to the day of execution (most likely 1 FEB). I am thinking that this isn't a good way to welcome someone who travels far, takes off work etc. Most of you already know exactly what I am hinting at here--but I'm thinking the scope of it would blow yer mind. My advice is to forget April and wait and see what comes. Then, once we have a clear idea on when it ends, we just let "her" set it up at a later date! Of course, I'm spending a year elsewhere--but I am coming straight back here into a job that could really impact future shoots.
If you like to bet against the odds, I can lay this all on Monday morning. I have the command group OK to proceed for Ken M's unit sponsorship (more or less). Again, we'd only be certain of success once our ranges went "hot" each day. Just post go/ no-go suggestions. If enough folks don't care if it falls apart--I'll lay it on anyway.
And no, we can't hold it on my farm. The Missus would skin me alive for taking up those last few moments of quality time..:)) BTW, I'm already in deep stuff over a few days in April at Badlands that just hit my calendar! (Bobby-email, no attachments).
Well, it sure was an enlightening day. I am re-motivated!
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 22:38:50 (ZULU)
Folks, there are A LOT of issues and good/bad information out there on small pox and the vaccine. If you want the propper poop on the subject, go to this CDC site and read ALL of it. Essentially, this is what most of the DMAT's are using for the basis of instruction. I wish that I could give you the exact information that we received last night, but we aren't supposed to do it.
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/index.asp
You have to look at everything as Pre-Attack and Post-Attack. There are huge differences in the recommendations.
The main concerns personally are simple:
1. I have a history of skin problems, Grade 3 Acne as a young buck. Really nasty and embarassing stuff. Even at dang near 49 years old, I still get zits. Although not ecxema(exema), it may be considered a skin disorder.
2. I can either get the vaccine through the hospital where I work (whenever the decision is made on what the hell they are going to do), or with the DMAT I am attached to. Either way I am considered first line/first responder, which makes the decision tougher.
3. There are so many liability, insurance and workers comp issues that nobody really knows who will be responsible for covering my ass iffin I get really sick, lose a limb, or go prone permanently.
I am still leaning towards taking my chances and foregoing the 15 bifurcated needle pricks. Like I heard on one of my favorite war movies that I now can't call the name of now (brain fart), "it's a good day to die". I'm too dang mean and ornery (like Yote Bait) to let them little bugs kill me. I am a lot more worried about a tank car of chlorine turning over on the highway at this point.
Doctor Bolt Out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 22:42:35 (ZULU)
Using that same logic it can be inferred that there are seventy-seven million American women who have hearing defects or JUST DON'T LISTEN!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 23:08:43 (ZULU)
Let me know off line - NO I don't want civilian equivalent want the real deal! Or I really only need the pants.
Sarge
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 00:16:51 (ZULU)
I have a great favor to ask of all of you.
My Wife's younger sister has been battling cancer for some time now and making good headway.
Today she got some news that was less than encouraging.
I would respectfully ask that all of you offer prayers for Carol's continued good health.
I know that this is off-topic, but too bad. I know of no finer batch of people, and that's why I'm asking.
Many Thanks,
Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Linas, NM, USA - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 00:25:55 (ZULU)
Will talk to the big guy in the sky tonight sir! Dang, what is going on around here, lots of good folks getting down.
Bobby Whittington <bwhittington@badlandstactical.net>
Grandfield, OK, USA - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 01:02:51 (ZULU)
After looking at the adverse reactions on that page I'm gonna take my chances that my initial innoculation is still good. If that's what the vaccine does, the actual disease must really suck.
Bruce,
You have mail. N/A.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 01:18:19 (ZULU)
As far as a Tactical Carbine scope, have you considered a Trijicon ACOG. They are not variable, but for a 4x scope acquisition is fast and the glass is clear.
Bruce,
Prayers on the way. And I agree with you on the spirit of brotherhood that is exhibited on the site.
Bobby,
Card has been sent. Please keep us all informed about Steve. He is a great man and I look forward to throwing more lead downrange with him. Some good people may be down, but they are not out! Prayers still being sent.
I don't think I'm ready to compete yet, but might like to help/work the SC Sniper Match. Checking my schedule now and will let you know if your interested in the help.
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 01:24:26 (ZULU)
Will add your loved one's name to the list I keep in my heart for prayers of recovery. Continue to be a source of support for her! We will support you!
I also have a different list, one that contains the names of dealmakers from Nigeria and those farts who propugate viruses, both real and electronic......
"Lord, may these scum enjoy the feel of a warm rain shower of high grade kerosene while in the close proximity of a fully functional Zippo product!"
Les
Les <LesMartin338@aol.com>
Canton, CT, USA! - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 02:24:30 (ZULU)
Thanks..I WILL take you up on your work offer! Let me know.
Bobby Whittington <bwhittington@badlandstactical.net>
Grandfield, OK, USA - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 02:28:00 (ZULU)
OK everyone knows the dates are 6-8 June, 2003 at BadLands Tactical Training Facility, Grandfield, Oklahoma.
Now for the new info. A registration form has been posted to the BadLands web-site at www.badlandstactical.net check it out!!
This is a TEAM Match. OK you don't have a partner...NO SWEAT, we'll team you "singles" up so that we have a total of 30 Teams. Gawd that's 60 Hawgs, Rosterfarians, Dudes, Undudes, Catshooters etc. all in the same place at the same time!!! LOOK OUT Grandfield...and Witchita Falls and Lawton and everyplace else in between!!!
For some things you might want to think about "training" for!
Might be a good idea to have your stalking skills in order - maybe, maybe not but...
Another thing you might also consider "training" up on are your handgun skills! You never know!!
Planning on attending??
Best have...lets see about 150 rounds of rifle ammo and 100 rounds of handgun ammo with you! Oh you might want the handgun to go with that ammo!
We'll do our best to have information on lodging in the area posted either here or on BadLands web-site, hopefully both, within the next couple of weeks.
We will keep you posted!!
Just remember...I don't give hints very freely so take what I do give and learn!! HeeHeeHeeHee :-) You all wanted a SC Match! You're going to get a MATCH!!!
Oh we're having TOOOOOOOO much fun with this!! Evil grin, Evil grin!
Sarge and the SC Staff
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 03:32:00 (ZULU)
>>>> I can easily come up with a "syndrome" for whatever subset of the population you want. Right away some members of that subset are going to start having problems. Nausea, blurry vision, insomnia, whatever...........But if you let some hack lawyer go fishing in any database, he's going to be able to torture the data into confessing to anything. <<<<
Man, you said a mouthfull. That's called "objective analysis". To wit: you provide the objective and I'll provide the analysis to support it. Much of what passes for scientific inquiry proves nothing beyond the fact that with a cleverly worded grant proposal, you can get the government to pay for just about anything.
Don't even get me started on "cancer clusters" and haute tension power lines.....
Wuzz
Wuzzagrunt <t1_of_2@hotmail.com>
NY, NY, USA - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 04:45:44 (ZULU)
Headed out for duty shortly...so a quick post.
Bruce, Carol is in our prayers. My wife is a survivor of breast cancer, so I know the personal toll this takes on loved ones. Godspeed...
New info on the SC shoot looks good. Will peruse more, at length, on the 'morrow.
Have a surprise coming up for the SC members...stay tuned. Probably in the next week or two.
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 05:04:56 (ZULU)
Off to bed.
Bob
Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne, Ca, USA - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 07:18:31 (ZULU)
Thanks
Pat
Pat <patncindy@iglide.net>
ID, - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 15:38:54 (ZULU)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35857-2003Jan9.html
Intelligent discussion of our situation with NK:
http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson011003.asp
Powell is playing his own game and has been for years:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35858-2003Jan9.html
Where did Brian go?
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Friday, January 10, 2003, at 16:13:31 (ZULU)
Sarge-email, no attachments ref: Gortex.
On Bio attacks: Yeah, high density populations are likely targets--but consider a higher dispersion scenario. Large groups gathered and going home to points all over. Cruise liners come to mind. First, you'd want to find out infection patterns, and calculate incubation times so most are sick AFTER they disperse. Hey wait...didn't I read something about minor viruses on cruise ships? Didn't boston have an outbreak of similar stuff? I wonder....
I wonder what is next.
Come hell or high water (Uncle Sam excepted, he may throw a wrench) Blake and I will attend the April Basic rifle in Badlands. Anyone else planning on being out that way? I sure wish we could make the SC shoot in June though. But alas, I may be attending a bigger match that time frame! Heheh.
I'm hoping Blake follows in Andy's footsteps...he's heading that way already with his skills. And, young ladies are calling the house for him (finally!). Yep, things are looking up.
I sealed some files yesterday. Updated will, SGLI, and all that. Any advice on how to clue the wife in without freaking her out? I know it's just basic common sense to do this stuff, but she will take it all wrong...I've told her I am in more danger flying my whirly-gig than I will be in over there--but she is "on edge" anyway. A will would rock her world. Hey, I think she actually likes me after all!
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Friday, January 10, 2003, at 16:52:38 (ZULU)
I am very interested in the Duty Roster Match, but I have a couple of questions.
First and foremost, I have no formal training long range shooting. I have never shot in a match before...I shoot out to 885yds at least twice a month. Typically I shoot sub moa.
What do you think the minimum requirements are for someing like this.
thanks,
bryan
bryan <bherman699@aol.com>
CA, - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 17:01:34 (ZULU)
Make up an info packet, heck several copies wouldn't hurt, have them witnessed and notarized, file with the State (if necessary). It should contain your will, DNR order, copies of any insurance policies, deeds, titles, birth certificates, etc., and specific instructions that you wish to be carried out in event of your death or inability to make or carry out these decisions on your own. Include a living POA for your wife.
Do you have a trusted attorney? Give him a copy. How about a close relative or friend? Put one in a saftey deposit box. Everything should be sealed, with instructions to be given to your wife, kids, or other designated survivors and opened only in the event of the tragedy described above. That way she won't even know that it exists unless she needs it!
Be safe,
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 17:22:30 (ZULU)
Thanks for links, again. Brian is teaching, I believe in FL?? He said somethin last week, I think. I'm showin symptoms of CRS in all the wrong places and at the wrong times.
Pat,
The caps are .308,.223,.30-06,.300WM I believe. There is a company in Californicate that will make a custom one if you send 'em the data. I can't remember the name but they have a web site and I'm sure someone here will enlighten you.
JoeM.
Don't tell her you made a new one. Tell her where the one is kept that you and your lawyer made a few years back. wink, wink. Just to refresh her memory.
Bhermam, Brian.
I don't know squat either but I'm gonna go learn. I went to my first match last fall and was amazed at the knowledge and talent. Most everyone was willing to share or help. If I couldn't shoot I'd go just to help out. It's a great bunch of people. You'll have a blast.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 17:35:39 (ZULU)
The video inspection of these Rifle barrels should be an eye opener.
Steve from New Joisey
http://www.riflebarrels.com/
Steven Dzupin <sdzupin@optonline.net>
Wayne , New Joisey, US of A - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 18:17:30 (ZULU)
Gonna play the devil's advocate here! As an insurance agent, I have seen first-hand when preparation was not thorough and a loss occured, and the stress it causes all survivors and family members. You MUST discuss everything with your partner beforehand! You are a team, therefore the larger interest of future family security is greater than the moments of fear and uncertainty you will share while discussing such a sensitive topic. Remember why it is called a "living will!"
Joe, she needs to have HER affairs in order also! As she is a public servant, both of your occupations are slightly elevated risk exposures. All of the recommendations you have received so far are valid and smart, but you can not leave out the most important people, your spouse and dependent children! Together, you, your spouse and children should meet personally with your insurance agent(s) (auto/home/farm/life), personal attorney and your minister/priest. They will be of GREAT assistance and comfort to you all!
Guys, it is not just about the dollars, it is the peace of mind that comes when open and candid conversation leaves no questions, doubts or fears! You will both perform your jobs better and more professionally without distraction or worry! Do not leave your hard earned estate to the greedy probate attorneys! Make your wishes known now, and keep them updated! The whole financial services industry has re-evaluated its thinking since Sept. 11, 2001.
When you talk about this on an annual basis, it becomes easier to discuss without emotions and your imaginations running amok. The financial security of your families is just as important as your being willing to physically fight off an intruder/attacker!
Les
Les <LesMartin338@aol.com>
Canton, CT, USA - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 18:51:17 (ZULU)
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Friday, January 10, 2003, at 19:33:45 (ZULU)
<Put one in a saftey deposit box>
I would not do this. Reason is, when my Dad died, everything (will, deed, insurance policies, etc.) was in a jointly owned box at the bank. We were not allowed to remove anything at all, even my Mom's personal items, except to make copies until the will was probated.
If you take this option, I'd put the box in her name to make certain she has unfettered access.
Don
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, US of A - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 20:10:59 (ZULU)
The SC shoot is getting all you pumped up. I already have a partner and were NOT telling...;-)
Bruce, wife goes in for her yearly cancer check up and mammogram. Will be holding my breath on Monday until the results come in...
Looks like we lost an officer up in south of Portland. Shot in the face and not expected to make it. Dammit!
More on my time off next Monday/Tuesday.
Anyone hear from Undude?
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 20:21:22 (ZULU)
Do you have dope for various ranges out to the 885yds?? If so you'll do fine. Sign up, show up, & shoot!! No matter how well you do (even if you win) you WILL learn some new things, whch is the real prize. Your sub-moa will be very useful since there are always some short range (50-300yds) precision/speed drills. Also, don't ignore the sitting/kneeling/standing positions. Match directors are a sadistic lot, but all competitors are tortured equally and after it is over you'll be asking for more.
danny mull <drm8194@hotmail.com>
- Friday, January 10, 2003, at 20:22:25 (ZULU)
Geof (ex royal marine) rang me up this morning, " ey up Pete, wot you doin' tis afternoon? how about a spot of deer hunting?" well how could i resist?? only slight problem was i had all my hunting gear and rifles in the damn safe in my appartment at work. bugger. He says he will lend me his 22.250, ahhh a leupold scope, how will i ever live that down on tze roster.. shit, deer huntin' with a Leupold is better than no deer hunting at all. (ain't that true Val) anyhow, had a dig about in the cellar and came up with some old hunting gear and cement covered boots, will have to do I figured. Lucky i had some new steiner bino's in the cupboard. So off I went to meet the others on the training area at 15.00hrs. dressed like Wurzel Gummage ( Jon B knows who he is, a scarecrow). Rainer the forester tells us he expects that we might also see some pigs, bugger, 22.250 not allowed for pigs, Rainer came to the rescue, " you can use my 'Berg stutzen' ( over under double rifle, one barrel is a small cal, other larger. in this case 5.6x50R and 30R Blaser) only thing is ,, its a Blaser, , Leupold..Blaser, Leupold.. Blaser.. AAHHRGG. Pig, take the blaser, at least its got a Zeiss on it..
Anyhow, gets in place up a high seat, after an uneventfull stalk in, hadn't been ´there long when 2 deer crossed the open ground in front, a buck and a doe,(we where only after kids(kitz)) about a half hour later, i see a doe and 2 kids browsing thier way through the trees to my front, both kids are bucks, one is much larger then the other(usualy one is more dominant and takes more milk and grows faster and stronger), i waited intil they came into the open and then i shot the smaller of the 2 kids. It bolted at the shot , but showed sure sign of a boiler room hit. waited until 19.00 hopeing to see a pig or a fox, no joy, rainer wanted to test his new dog tracking so we let it follow the blood trail, deer had gone 60 yards, them little bullets made a big hole, but it still ran a way, Anyway, then Rainers phone went and it was the Cops, someone had run into a deer on the other side of the area and buggered thier car up and the deer was still kicking. poor thing,
An interesting afternoon, I saw 6 deer, Geoff saw 16 (and didn't get a shot off) and Steve saw 12(i think) and a fox, didn't get a shot either. That buck kid will taste good.
Looks like i bought a Jeep Cherokee, so we can now go back to SUV country.
Jon B and i have been chatting about haveing a sniper shootout match for us Euro Hawgs, maybe at Bisley or Sennelager.. might be interesting if it comes off. Pete
Peter Lincoln <anke_pete@t-online.de>
D - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 20:31:38 (ZULU)
Your imput gives additional ammo to those guys who have wanted to buy a fireproof gun safe, but can't talk the spouse into the investment! A safe will honestly pay for itself in the long run! When you calculate the cost per year of a safe deposit box and its VERY limited accessibility, a home safe is the best option available for security of valuables and paperwork. Plus, unfettered 24hr 7x365 access by the owners!
Les
Les <LesMartin338@aol.com>
Canton, CT, USA! - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 20:32:38 (ZULU)
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 21:18:27 (ZULU)
Thanks to everyone that responded. Have been found and problem solved!
Thanks again!
Sarge
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 21:23:49 (ZULU)
Incomming no attachments. Sent out yesterday.
Take Care
Pat
Pat <patncindy@iglide.net>
ID, - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 22:11:21 (ZULU)
you need a new name. Too many Pat's ;)) You have email incoming with an attachment regarding M3 BDC's.
JR,,
I got the damn thing TODAY!!!!!! I don't know how long it's been in the US,, but he didn't call me until Dec 24th saying it here and then didn't bother shipping intil a day or two ago. It was 150 miles from the house, and I had no way to get it.... We need to talk about that off line.
Looks great,, heavy bastard,, Got the reamer yesterday,, dropping it off tomorrow. Should have a barreled action by end of next week. Now,, if I can get a damn Prone stock for this mutha,, I'd be set.
I wanted to tell you thanks again for all your help. Had you not gone the extra mile, and Border backed ya,, I fear I may have had to spend a VERY unpleasant stink in the local jail for assault. Please tell Lee I said thanks also,, and let him know it's perfect!
Anyone who has a way to contact John at Tactical Stocks,, please give him a call and let him know I'm waiting ;))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Friday, January 10, 2003, at 22:56:48 (ZULU)
If you have someone's e-mail address, you can sign them up for a ton of bullshit spam. It takes no brains. Any fool can do it. In fact, one is. Whoever the pimply-faced, bad-breath little fist-f****r is, he certainly isn't demonstrating any ingenuity.
Do we HAVE to continue posting our e-mail addresses? We're just making ourselves easy targets by doing so. Isn't there some other way? This has gotten ridiculous.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 00:19:14 (ZULU)
Ken and Marius et al would be the ones to ask on the technical side... but my suggestion allows for email contact between rosterhogs and kills most data mining.
Charles Of Memorable Places Consulting <tenarius@memorableplaces.com>
CCCPalifornia, - Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 00:48:07 (ZULU)
http://medtech.syrene.net/forum2/index.php?s=
A good site for military gear nuts:
http://lightfighter.net/6/ubb.x
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 01:02:41 (ZULU)
Undude is doing fine and I expect a more detailed status report in a couple of days...
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 02:54:06 (ZULU)
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 02:59:59 (ZULU)
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 03:06:27 (ZULU)
On another note. All you active duty guys...good luck. USMC just implemented a service wide stop loss according to Stars and Stripes. I think we know where that is headed. Between North Korea and Iraq I think we are headed down that road again. Shit. Time to clean up the yard again I guess.
Ya'll be cool.
Gooch out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 08:35:01 (ZULU)
Bloke near here selling a Weatherby, MK 5 with a shillen barrel in 338 lap Mag,Mc Millan stock I think, i might have a look out of interest.it seems to be a decent price but its probably shot out.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <anke_pete@t-online.de>
D - Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 09:11:55 (ZULU)
Lets see…a very combat experienced greenie beanie top sergeant that speaks Arabic…hmmmm where do you think he’s going?
That .338 sounds interesting too. That could kill a piggy ya know =)
Bis Bald,
Joe S.
Joe S. <Spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, SoCal, USA - Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 16:30:15 (ZULU)
My heartfelt thanks for all the warm wishes and prayers for Carol. I count myself as indeed blessed to have so many wonderful friends.
Now, congratulations are in order!
Shep Shepherd, the UK sniper instructor that was featured in the recent History Channel series on sniping, has just received a singular honor. The New Years Honours list has been published, and Shep will soon be going to Buckingham Palace to receive his MBE (Member of the British Empire) medal from the Queen, in recognition of his contributions as a sniper instructor. I am told that it is not that common for a soldier to be so honored. The fact that Shep does what he does should makes this even better, in my opinion!
To all who are preparing to deploy, Godspeed. Our prayers are with you.
Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 18:57:30 (ZULU)
OK... here goes (Whew, this is gonna be a long one).
There are several things that go on inside a scope, and in the eyes at the same time. Some of them workie against each other.
But some terminology first... and we'll leave out lenses that are there to correct some optical or color errors, but don't have anything to do with image forming.
We'll start at the front of it all, and work back.
1 - The "Object"... the thing that you are looking (shooting) at.
2 - The "Objective". The front lens is called the "Objective"... it forms the first image of the "object" we are looking at (that why they call it the Objective ;)
It is the lens that "captures" all the light, that is solely responsible for the image quality of the scope... if it is poor, you can't fix the poor image later.
This lens is usually made of two different types of glasses (called "elements") sandwiched together, and is called an "Achromat".
The Achromat is fully color corrected for blue and green. The red wavelengths are partially corrected, but have what is called "residual color errors".
This is the normal type of objective used in shooting and spotting scopes. In quality, they can vary from badd, through sorta OK, to pretty damn good.
If one of the elements is made of an "ED" glass, or a "Fluorite" (CaF) glass, the two element lens can be very good to friggin' outstanding.
In some instances, objective lenses are made of three elements, and all three colors (blue, green, and red) are completely corrected. This type of lens is called an "Apochromat", and this is the finest lens that can be bought. The best of these can also have "ED" glass, or Fluorite as one of the elements.
3 - The "First image plane". The Objective focuses the light to make an image of the subject, just like a camera lens. This image is upside down, and right/left reversed. This is the first image plane, but NOT the "First image plane" that is talked about when shooters talk about reticles.
4 - The "Erector lens"... (if it is a group of lenses, it is called the "Erector cell"). Because the first image is upside down/wrong way around, we (as shooters) can't use it... so we flip it around with a simple optical group called the "erector cell". This cell gives us a new image that is right way around, called the second image plane. Moving this cell causes this second image plane to move... so micrometer spindles are put against the cell, to get elevation and windage adjustments.
5 - The "Second image plane". This is the second real image plane in the scope, and this is the image plane that shooters call the "First image plane" when talking about reticles. In a fixed power scope, or in a variable with a "First image plane reticle", the reticle would be placed in this image plane.
This is where Premier Reticle puts those magical "Gen II" reticles.
6 - The "Zoom group". In a variable scope with standard (non-magnifying) reticle, the zoom group of optics would follow #5. This group of lenses can change the size of the image plane in #5 and then form a new (third) image plane behind it.
7 - The "Third image plane" In variable power scopes, this is the plane that the reticle is placed in. By being here, it allows the image to change sizes, but the reticle to stay the same size. In the context of reticles, this is the image plane that is referred to as the "second image plane"
8 - The "Eyepiece". This optical group is like a jewelers loupe. Is is (or should be) a super fine magnifier. It's only job in the whole world, is to focus on the reticle.
Let me repeat that for those that live in Rio Linda...
THE ONLY JOB FOR THE EYEPIECE IS TO FOCUS YOUR EYE ON THE RETICLE!!!!
It CANNOT adjust, or compensate for, or do anything else when things look bad in the scope, or when you can't hit the target... and you CANNOT use the eyepiece to try to correct for parallax. That is sheer folly at best, and raw stupidity at worst.
If you expect it to do anything else, then stop wasting your time with long-range shooting, cuz you are never gonna make it past mediocre... and take up golf!!
OK... now that you know what the insides are like... lets move on. We'll use the zoom scope for our examples. cuz if you can understand the zoom scope, then the fixed scope is a walk in the park.
In the scope that is set for infinity range, the object forms an image behind the objective (the first image plane)... the erector cell "sees" that image, and flips it over and makes it right way around in a NEW image plane (the Second image plane). The zoom group adjusts the size of this image plane, and makes a NEW image plane (the Third image plane) that is the desired size. There is a reticle placed in this last image plane, and the eyepiece focuses on the reticle AND the image at the same time.
When things are good, that's how the scope workie!
---
But... now the booger falls into the soup... IF the third image plane and the reticle are not exactly, (and I mean EX-ACT-LY) in the same place, then your eye cannot see them LOCKED together as one picture.
It sees them as two separate pictures, and the eye will look at each separately, and the eye can also look AROUND one to see the other.
---
Lenses are measured in metrics (aka Millimeters). Not because the Europeans wanted the metric system 20 years ago, but because optical strings and chains of lenses (like scopes) are really a string of numbers.
There are constant ratios of "this divided by that's" that give image sizes, "F-ratios", and image locations. It's so damn easy to do the engineering using a 10 based system that the optical guys were using the metric system way back in the 1800's.
The objective has a "Focal length"... this is the distance behind the lens that the first image plane falls when making an image if a subject that is at infinity (or very damn far away).
If the objective has a focal length of 100mm, then the image of that 1000 yd target is 100mm behind the lense.
But the problem with geometric optics (which is what we are dealing with here), is that they follow the laws of geometry... and optics make triangles like rabbits make babies.
AND... in an optical chain, when you change one thing, one angle, one ANYTHING, everything else follows along and changes BASED on the ratios involved at THAT stage.
If we take that same target, and move it to 100 yds, the image in the scope moves BACKWARDS, going further into the scope. Not by much, but it doesn't take much, cuz we're dealing with very small distances inside the scope, and very high magnifications.
How far the image moves back, and what it's new position is, is predictable by the mathematical ratios of the angles formed by the subject and the first image... OR (for us dummies that lost our slip sticks) by the ratio of the distances to the Target and the focal length, multiplied by the focal length. then ADDED to the focal length.
The target is at 100 yds (91440mm), the focal length of the objective is 100, so the displacement is 1/914 x 100, which means that the first image is now at ~100.1mm. Hmmm only .1mm, that doesn't seem like much.
Read the following paragraph twice...
In a 1x scope, 0.1mm would mean nothing... but this displacement is repeated throughout the chain, AND if any of the optical groups change the image ratio (aka image size), then the displacement (aka ERROR) is changed in direct proportion to the increase in magnification. So in a 3x scope, it would be .3mm, and in a 10x scope, it would be 1mm, and in a 30 power scope, the image would be 3mm behind the reticle.
Now, you should have seen a pattern in this last paragraph.
READ THIS TWICE!!
With the same error in the objective (scope focused at 1000, and target at 100), the parallax INCREASES WITH MAGNIFICATION... got it?
If not, READ IT TWO MORE TIMES!!
OK... now, if we do the same math for closer distances, like 50 yds, and 25 yds we will see that the error gets really big, so that with a target at 50 yards, and the scope set at 35 or 65 yds, the parallax makes the combination un-usable.
---
Parallax is... when the image of the target, and the reticle, are NOT in exactly the same plane, and by moving the eye up and down... or side to side, either the target OR the reticle appears to move in relation to the other.
You might see the target move and the reticle stay still, or you might see the target stay still and the reticle move over it... both are exactly the same, and which you see, is only a matter of your OWN perception.
It is NOT possible to have parallax while moving up and down, but not have it when you are moving side to side.
If you think that is what you have, you have other problems... either you are moving the rifle, or you have eye problems.
---
HOW TO SET UP A SCOPE!
This is the only way to do it...
First, screw the eyepiece out (CCW) all the way, until it stops.
If you wear glasses, put them on.
Hold the scope up and look OVER the scope at the sky, and relax your eyes. Then move the scope in front of your eye.
The reticle should look fuzzy
Turn the eyepiece in 1/2 turn, and do the same thing again. You will have to do for a while before the reticle starts to look better. When you start getting close, then turn the eyepiece 1/4 turn each time.
Do this until the reticle is fully sharp and fully BLACK immediately when you look through the scope.
Than back off one turn and do it again to make sure you are in the same place.
Then LOCK the ring on the eyepiece, and leave it alone forever!
Second.
Set the scope down on something sold, where it can see something at a long distance... half a mile of longer is good.
It can be on the rifle, and rested in sand bags at the range... but pick something at least 1000 yds away... even further if possible.
If the scope has an "AO" Adjustable objective, then set it for infinity, and look at the distant object, and move your head from one side to the other, or up and down if you prefer.
If the reticle seems to move, there is parallax.
Change the distance setting and try again... if you are very careful, you can move your eye, and adjust the distance at the same time, seeing which direction gets better.
With front objective adjustments, you can turn them either way without worry... BUT with side adjustment scopes, like the MK4-M3, the M3-LR, or the other LR family of scopes, the adjustment must ALWAYS be made from the infinity end of the dial. Turn the adjustment all the way until it stops (past infinity), and then start turning it in a little at a time, until there is no parallax. If you "overshoot" the proper setting, you can't just turn back a little, you must go back to stop at the end of the dial, and start over again.
While "AO"s dials are locked in place, and if the indicated distance doesn't match the real distance, there's nothing you can do about it... the side focus dials are not locked in place.
Once you have found the setting for infinity on the side focus models, then (CAREFULLY) loosen the screws, and set the dial so that little sideways infinity symbol is lined up with the hash mark, so it is calibrated. You can also make little marks or put on a paper tape for other ranges instead of using the round dots that don't match any range.
Now you can set it to infinity, but remember that you MUST turn the dial all the way past infinity to the stop, EVERY TIME before going from a close range to a longer range.
If you are set for 500 yds, you can go directly to 100 yds, but if you are set for 100 and want to set it to 500, you MUST go all the way back to the stop, and then go to 500
This is because there is a fair amount of backlash (aka SLOP) in this wheel linkage to the focusing cell, so you can set it only from one direction to make sure the slop is always on one side. The other problem with it is, even if you decided that you wanted to calibrate from the other end... the recoil will push the cell back. SO you must ALWAYS set these dials from the infinity end of their scales.
To make it easy to not have to remember... I always start from the end stop, when I change range, no matter which direction I'm going in... it adds about 0.023 seconds!
---
Now... you gots a friend that says to set up a scope a different way???... he don't know doodly-squat about scopes.
The guy at the range said to do it a different way... he don't know shit either.
You know some guy who's in the Marines says to use your eyepiece to correct parallax... he doesn't know shit about optics either.
You got a friend that shoots benchrest and says something different... he don't know crapola!
This is the way, the only way, there is no other way.
... as Rushbo would say... this is from GOD-da ;).
You gots questions, just e-mail me.
You wanna "debate it", then go play golf, cuz you're wasting my time!
'lito (gettin' grumpy in my old age!)
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 19:14:17 (ZULU)
Brandon <bub220@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 19:30:21 (ZULU)
Bobby Whittington <bwhittington@badlandstactical.net>
Grandfield, OK, USA - Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 19:44:50 (ZULU)
Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 20:25:46 (ZULU)
NEWS ALERT........ effective immediately all K-Marts and Walmarts will be banned from Iraq. They will be replaced with.....Targets!!
Stan Caniglia <snfcaniglia@msn.com>
ohio, - Saturday, January 11, 2003, at 22:31:09 (ZULU)
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 01:14:35 (ZULU)
You took the words right outta my "fingers". That's one for the hot tips,, or maybe add a title and make it an article.
FatBoy
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 01:47:20 (ZULU)
Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 03:00:33 (ZULU)
back in the UK yeah, you know this jet lag really sucks. Anyone know of a good quick way to cure it? I was in the states, and for the first week I was falling asleep at 6PM(Central), waking up at 1AM, every steenking day. Then one day I made myself stay up til 2AM, and it broke my sleeping cycle. I was from then up til 3am and again at 9am, complete turnaround. Now that I'm back, I'm waking up at 2AM and literally knackered by noon, which makes absolutely no sense. haha, no, just wondered if any of youse military fellas had a surefire way to reset your internal clocks...mines broken
Bright eyed and bushy-tailed at 0320 hrs, sheesh
JR
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 03:23:30 (ZULU)
To ensure we Americans never offend anyone - - and - - particularly fanatics intent on killing us -- airport screeners will not be allowed to profile people. They will continue random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, Secret Service agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal Of Honor winning former Governors...
To put this in perspective, let's pause a moment and take the following test.
In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by
(a) Martha Stewart
(b) Sitting Bull
(c) Arnold Schwartzeneger
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1979,the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by
(a) Lost Norwegians
(b) Elvis
(c) A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by
(a) John Dillinger
(b) The King of Sweden
(c) The Boy Scouts
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by
(a) A pizza delivery boy
(b) Pee Wee Herman
(c) Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70 year old
American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by
(a) The Smurfs
(b) Sylvester Stallone
(c) The Little Mermaid
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by
(a) Captain Kid
(b) Charles Lindberg
(c) Mother Teresa
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by
(a) Scooby Doo
(b) The Tooth Fairy
(c) Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid.
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by
(a) Richard Simmons
(b) Grandma Moses
(c) Michael Jordan
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by
(a) Mr. Rogers
(b) Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
(c) The World Wrestling Federation to promote "Mustapha the Merciless"
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands of people were killed by
(a) Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck, and Elmer Fudd
(b) The Supreme Court of Florida
(c) Tom Daschle, Ricard Gephardt, Alec Baldwin and Whoopie Goldberg
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against
(a) Enron
(b) The Lutheran Church
(c) The NFL
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by
(a) Bonnie and Clyde
(b) Captain Kangaroo
(c) Billy Graham
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
Now really....do you see a pattern here? Nah.....
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 04:39:18 (ZULU)
George Gardner, G.A. Precision <a10xrifle@aol.com>
Kansas City, MO, U.S.A. - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 05:03:30 (ZULU)
Great post! The first paragraph goes to prove that it's not only ex-wives that JUST DON"T LISTEN ;)))) On a serious note, I've always understood that if you DO happen to re-focus your reticle by adjusting the eyepiece for some reason (???) you will have to readjust parallax (from the prior setting at the same range). I got this from a former Marine S/S. Right or wrong?
JR,
Somebody told me that jet-lag only happens in one direction! I don't believe it. My problem always was the drinking before and during the flight ;))
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 05:31:14 (ZULU)
Well, I must admit, I left the states at about 5pm, knew I had to at least make an attempt to get some sleep on the plane from Newark to London, so when the drink cart came 'round my hand was up, in fact both hands were. I'd maybe get 5-10 minutes of sleep per hour of flight time, just enough so when you wake you have no idea where the hell you are. I believe it is much worse flying east than west, unless you leave late; when I left I woke early Wednesday, about 5am, drove 200 miles to Sioux Falls, hopped on the plane at 11 and that's where the day started. So, my eyes saw the sun rise Wednesday, I saw the sunset before it should have happened, and when I arrived in London it was all of a sudden thursday morning and it really didn't feel like thursday if you know what I mean. So, couple the time change with the inability to sleep on a plane, and you wind up waking at 2am and knackered at noon, completely fubar.. I think what I'll do is try my damndest to stay awake til 9pm tonite and see what tomorrow brings. And quite possibly drink heavily, ha. Good to be in the land of good scotch. Ooh ooh, I know what might work, it's time to call in the lassie reinforcements, the nitey nite brigade....
What do pilots do? do they take sleeping pills or something? I mean those long runs the stealth bombers take over Iraq and Afghan, it's a return trip, a long day, sunrise sunset sunrise in less than 24 hours is a real pain in the arse...or even the infantry, do they drug them to get their bodies used to the time, or do they just give them time for their bodies to get used to the change? All I know is youse overseas businessmen gotta be some fried mothas..
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 06:24:53 (ZULU)
I know there are ladies that peruse this site, and there are a lot of wives/girlfriends who wonder what the hell us guys are looking at here, so I'm givin somethin back, and I leave this for "the ladies"
> >Martha Stewart's way Vs the Real Woman's way
> >
> >
> > Martha's way #1:
> > Stuff a miniature marshmallow in the bottom of a sugar cone
> > to prevent ice cream drips.
> >
> > The Real Women's Way:
> > Just suck the ice cream out of the bottom of the cone, for
> > Pete's sake, you are probably lying on the couch with your
> > feet up, eating it anyway.
> >
> > Martha's way #2:
> > To keep potatoes from budding, place an apple in the bag
> > with the potatoes.
> >
> > The Real Women's Way
> > Buy Hungry Jack mashed potato mix and keep it in the pantry
> > for up to a year.
> >
> > Martha's way #3:
> > When a cake recipe calls for flouring the baking pan, use a
> > bit of the dry cake mix instead and there won't be any white
> > mess on the outside of the cake.
> >
> > The Real Women's Way:
> > Go to the bakery. They'll even decorate it for you.
> >
> > Martha's way #4:
> > If you accidentally over-salt a dish while it's still
> > cooking, drop in a peeled potato and it will absorb the
> > excess salt for an instant "fix me up."
> >
> > The Real Women's Way:
> > If you over salt a dish while you are cooking, that's too
> > damn bad. Please recite with me, 'The Real Women's motto: I
> > made it and you will eat it and I don't care how bad it
> > tastes.
> >
> > Martha's way #5:
> > Wrap celery in aluminum foil when putting in the
> > refrigerator and it will keep for weeks.
> >
> > The Real Women's Way:
> > Celery? Never heard of the stuff.
> >
> > Martha's way #6:
> > Brush some beaten egg white over pie crust before baking to
> > yield a beautiful glossy finish.
> >
> > The Real Women's Way:
> > The Mrs. Smith frozen pie directions do not include brushing
> > egg whites over the crust so I just don't do it.
> >
> > Martha's way #7:
> > Cure for headaches: Take a lime, cut it in half and rub it
> > on your forehead. The throbbing will go away.
> >
> > The Real Women's Way:
> > Take a lime, mix it with tequila, etc., chill and drink. You
> > might still have the headache, but who cares?
> >
> > Martha's way #9:
> > If you have a problem opening jars: Try using latex
> > dishwashing gloves. They give a non-slip grip that makes
> > opening jars easy.
> >
> > The Real Women's Way:
> > Go ask the very cute neighbor to do it.
> >
> > And finally the most important tip:
> >
> > Martha's way #10:
> > Don't throw out all that leftover wine. Freeze into ice
> > cubes for future use in casseroles and sauces.
> >
> > The Real Women's Way:
> > Leftover wine??????
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 06:34:26 (ZULU)
You asked what pilots do? As a commercial pilot I can tell you that we don't have day or night but more appropriate light and dark as our schedules can be a bit eccentric. Effectively it is very subjective on how you realign your clock. If you continue to travel across borders your body will eventually tell you how to deal with a screwed up circadian rhythm. I find it best to stay awake as painful as that may be and go to bed at your local time. you also may consider a substance available at most any drug store called melatonin. It is the chemical that your body secretes naturally to induce sleep. Take it the day before at the time you want to sleep in the time zone you want to sleep. Then again before you go to sleep after you reach your destination. Typicaly this is effective for many people and does not leave you feeling dopy for the next day after waking. If that doesn't work continue to drink heavily!!! good luck.
Jim "greeceman" Shilling
Jim Shilling <greeceman8@cs.com>
Memphis , Tn, USA - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 08:56:41 (ZULU)
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 10:05:15 (ZULU)
Check these sites out for alice mods:
http://www.tacticaltailor.com/catalog/mods.htm
http://www.highspeedgearinc.com/
Also....
Here is the muther of all site link sites:
http://www.gear-guru.net/links.html
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 13:10:10 (ZULU)
Hogs - Had a fun day Friday, supposed to have my back surgery but the Dr had the flue.........No joke. At least he got sick in time for the hospital to call us and save the 90 mile Drive to Detroit. It's on for next week. I am really looking forward to getting it fixed, and Doc says I should be just fine for the match in June. IF for some reason I can't shoot, I am coming anyway to help out. Will bring AR-10's of course........Oh, just kidding so as not to scare off bolt guns......sorry.
Mk4 - that is absolutely a gut buster, about spilled wheaties all over the screen.
Take care
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 13:27:22 (ZULU)
you asked about the Steyr tactical elite?
Well, I played with one on the range last year, and I've got to say, Its the Billy Bollocks!!
Been on sale in the UK for approx 2 years at approx. 1800$, and is the only out of the box factory rifle that I've shot sub MOA with.
Cost is the only reason that I decided not to buy one. I got a PSS instead, and now have got to spend the money I saved at the 'smiths to get the PSS to shoot as good as the Steyr!
Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, England, - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 14:30:17 (ZULU)
I was returning from Bisley yesterday and just as I came off the M25, I saw this field of 50-60 head of deer. It looked like a bleedin' convention.
Instead of thinking 'aah, just look at lovely fluffy Bambi' I was thinking 'damn, my bloody rifles are packed away in the boot of the car'
Your efforts at reducing the pig population in Germany, are obviously having a negative effect on me, and turning me into some sort of blood-thirsty murdering monster!
I shall now have to consume Jack Daniels bottled attitude adjuster until this flaw in my character is expunged.
Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 14:41:12 (ZULU)
Ah.....good to see you're back. I was beginning to wonder if the cats had devised a rebellion and settled your hash. I'll have to study that educational document you posted......probably have to study it a lot...much too cold to shoot anyway. Stuck a new trigger spring in the 7mm Mag Model 70 and the trigger is about 3.7 lbs now. Feels nice, but not as good as the Stealth's or the Sharpshooter's. Back to lurking for the optics challenged.
Jerry S. <jtmstor@rrv.net>
Sub zero country, MN, USA - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 14:46:11 (ZULU)
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 15:50:01 (ZULU)
Should go without saying, but I caught myself guilty last year.
Joe M.- .223 loads. I've found 69 gr SMK, 25.5 gr WW-748, Remington 7 1/2 primer has done 3/4" @ 200 meters for me with occasional cloverleafs. The Sierra 60 gr HP, 21.5 gr IMR 4198, WW SR primers were doing better but you'd best work up to that one. LOAL on both was out of the Sierra manual.
Don't take the wife's attitude too seriously. She's just comtemplating shoveling manure herself for an extended period
:-)))))
For guys with horse loving women-
1. Horsewomen know a man is only good for one thing-backing up the horse trailer.
2. When your horselady calls out "Honey, I've got something to show you..." It ISN'T something from Fredericks, Vickie's Secret etc. It's either a new halter, saddle blanket or pile of manure you missed while cleaning the barn.
3. Ever notice she'll kiss a horse (Lord knows where that furry face has been!), but you need a bath, shave, teeth cleaning and lose 20+ lbs!
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 16:33:14 (ZULU)
any blond kids with sticky-out ears I know are playing the banjo!
Just practice yesterday, finally got me PSS grouping better than me mini-14 by using reloads.
I'm certainly up for a Euro Hawg match, gotta show the jerries, frogs, eyeties, taffs and sweatys how to do it!! (ha bloody ha)
Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 16:43:08 (ZULU)
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
LakeCormorant, MS, - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 17:01:04 (ZULU)
Thanks, I was curious if they are available here in the US yet. But you say it shot well huh. I have a Steyr PllK and it shoots great, but I saw a posting on GunsAmerica.com for a Steyr Tactical Elite and was shocked because the last I heard they were not being imported into this country. Who knows, but I definitely want to find out. Talk at ya later.
Brandon <bub220@hotmail.com>
chilly, CO, - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 18:31:41 (ZULU)
you got mail about Steyr tactical elites. No attachments...
Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 19:21:37 (ZULU)
you have mail; no attachments.
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 19:41:57 (ZULU)
Just got back from Florida. Doin' some Waterborne Ops training for a bunch of cops. Had a blast.
Sunny Florida and wet suits notwithstanding, that water was c o l d ! brrrrrr My MS was acting up. (MS = Major Shrinkage !)
I think Inside Edition covered the thing.
Guys learned a lot.
Had fun but was glad to get home.
Later bros,
B.K. Sain
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 21:41:38 (ZULU)
Spent yesterday fighting bushfires,the bastard beat us and jumped a road,it looks like stating on gubmint land in the short term.hope the night crew lads had some success.
Thanks Lito,wifey showed me how to select a peice from the dr and print it,now I gotta go through the archive dungeon again.Cool down there anyway.
We could use some prayers for rain to.Worst drought in 100 years.
out
G.W
Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 23:25:34 (ZULU)
Your 11 Jan. on parallax is a great commercial for United States Optics Technologies (usoptics.com). There catalog, $10.00 I think, has great explanations for parallax and other useful optical phenomena. While I am trying to sound like I know something about shooting I would like to recommend a book that will answer most ballistics questions like twist rates, primer holes, spin, deflection, etc.. I am not as experienced a shooter as most of the good folks on the Roster but I have found answers for questions I didn't even know existed in this book: UNDERSTANDING FIREARM BALLISTICS by Robert A Rinker. Available from Mulberry House Publishing @ (888) 738-1567. It costs $25.00.
Where did you get your optics knowledge?
JE
Jerry Lee Edwards (pandora) <grimm@atlantic.net>
Chuluota, Florida, USA - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 23:31:55 (ZULU)
Add to backing the trailer - replacing the brake shoes, fixing the lights, repacking the wheel bearings, and putting new tires on the damn thing!
JR,
Leftover whine? There's always leftover whine around my place. As in "rememeber when you said (or did) whatever five years ago"?
Speaking of that - here's a couple for ya:
Q) What's an American housewifes' favorite wine in December?
A) " I want to go to Florida (or Aspen)".
Q) How can you tell if she's had an orgasm?
A) If she drops her nail file during the act.
I'm gonna get killed,
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 23:33:14 (ZULU)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehe......that oughta stir the pot ;))
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
LakeCormorant, MS, - Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 23:38:05 (ZULU)
>"Catshooter, Your 11 Jan. on parallax is a great commercial for United States Optics Technologies"<
Some people post here to add to the pool of knowledge... but most others post to see their name on the monitor.
It's stupid remarks like yours, that is the reason I don't hardly post here anymore.
Go play Golf!!
-
'lito
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 00:25:58 (ZULU)
To LEO snipers:
When you are in an environment that filled with explosive or flammable fumes, have you ever tried using a longbow or a crossbow? Would not a wooden bolt (perhaps with a little bit of lead or--dare I say this?--depleted uranium, buried in the head) shot by a crossbow, take out the target without danger of igniting the flammable atmosphere? It seems that modern crossbows, with suitable sights, could serve within the usual LEO sniper range (100 yards).
I have tried to search Snipercountry.com for references to modern uses of crossbows, but did not find any. Hence the question. Do we need to consult the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) for advice?
Any help, experience, or war story is welcome.
Thanks,
Spectre
Spectre <leslienordman@hotmail.com>
U.S.A. - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 00:42:41 (ZULU)
Regarding your post about shooting in a flammable gas filled environment. I am not a LEO sniper, but I do know something about flammable environments.
First, why shoot in that environment? Why not back off, and shoot from a safe environment? Remember adapt, inprovise, overcome.
Second, a bullet traveling through a flammable environment will not cause a flash fire, unless you are shooting something like API or tracer. Something that is supposed to start a fire.
Flammable gas clouds are kind of funny. There are parts of the cloud where the gas/air mixture is exactly right and an explosion will occur with only a small addition of energy, like a bullet bouncing off a chunk of steel. Other parts of the same cloud the mix ain't right, and you could strike a match and nothing would happen (don't try this at home).
Finally the legal ramifications. Can you imagine a city attorney sitting at his desk, with his head in his hands, saying, "What were they thinking."
Just my $00.02 worth.
John <one338winmag@hotmail.com>
Liberty, TX, - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 01:29:10 (ZULU)
Ain't gonna happen.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Monday, January 13, 2003, at 01:50:38 (ZULU)
Gents, the consensus for the April get together was to postpone. Any of you got other ideas, let me know soonest. I'm going to get to work on something for late August-September for the moment and I'd really like to make the Badlands SC shoot. The near term for me is focused on business over pleasure, so I might be hard to get ahold of. Never fear, I will do everything I can to make this thing work, but I may not be able to talk about it for a while. Semper Fidelis.....Ken M
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
occupied people's republic of IL, USA(sorta) - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 02:48:01 (ZULU)
have you had time to send any .284 pills down that fire forming beast yet?
I see Norma is making 300WSM brass now. It may be time to run a couple through a 7WSM die and drop a 156 or 178 Cartcucio in it,, and send her off to Clymer....
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 02:57:01 (ZULU)
Remember that release agent I was on about a couple months ago? Well, I forgot all about it, but dad had the box of the stuff which price-driscoll sent him as a free sample. You want me to have him send it your way? I can't ship it or even pack it in my luggage to bring here, it's an aerosol, so if you can use it just say the word... Doesn't stink or nuthin, supposed to be safe, looks like some good stuff..
Wide Awake
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 02:57:29 (ZULU)
It's open season for registration. We have heard from everyone from last year plus more. All but one(wife having their first child the week before) of last years shooters will be there again this year. There are still slots available- May 17/18. Two challending days of shooting with the Hogs! Lot's of surprises. Anyone for sniper golf?
Rod
rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Monday, January 13, 2003, at 03:52:45 (ZULU)
You have mail - N/A
Rob Opp
Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 04:03:44 (ZULU)
So I know Jack Sheeeeit about 'puters. How do I save 'Lito's Parallax etc. post without having to do all sorts a editing etc? There's gotta be an easy way I'm just not edjumacated on right?
Later,
Rich
Rich S. <RS1441@aol.com>
Bal'mer, - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 04:04:58 (ZULU)
1) the SIMRAD night vision device? and/or
2) a *LONG*-range laser range finder (+ 1500 yards...)
Contact: paul3697@yahoo.com
Thanks.
-P.
Paul <Paul3697@yahoo.com>
- Monday, January 13, 2003, at 04:41:27 (ZULU)
email headed your way w/o attachment.
jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 06:01:56 (ZULU)
You have mail. N/A. Match entry request.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 10:39:24 (ZULU)
There is this SAS trooper in Afganistan. He is part of a training team, instructing a raggedy bunch of Afgani's in small unit tactics and variouse other arts of the Military trade. He is befriended by one of the Afgans,( Abdul) who happens to speak practicaly no English at all, but they manage to communicate with hands and feet. The trooper figures it would be a great idea if he was to teach Abdul some English during breaks and after the training day. Hence he has Abdul repeat words in English after he has pointed out certain objects.
Tpr...."Hut.."
Abdul...."Hoot."
Tpr...."Tank..".
Abdul ..."Taynk."
Tpr.. " Rifle.".
Adbul.. "Ryfle,"
Tpr.. "Boots..".
Abdul.. "Buts."
and so this carries on for a few weeks, gradualy Abdul is getting a vacabulary of English words together and it is making training somewhat easier. The Afgani's tend to be a little trigger happy, but providing you make sure you are 20 feet behind the firing point when the militia let loos, then mostly its safe enough.One day on the ranges, the boys realy get rockin and rolling, so by mid day they have used up all the ammo.During lunch break, our Trooper and Abdul set off towards the village to pick up some more ammo. As they walk along the track the trooper begins again with the vocabulary lessons,pointing out certain objects as they go along.
Tpr... "Track."
Abdul..".Trayk."
Tpr..."Oil drum."
Abdul...".Oyl Dram"
Tpr... "Tree."
Abdul....Trey",
they round a bend in the track and the trooper points to some bushes,
Tpr.. "Bushes."
Abdul... "Booshiz.. ah same same President Boosh? " he answers ,
"yeah sort of" says our Trooper.
Just then they spot a couple on the ground behind the bush having sex. The Trooper is unsure what to say, he knows Abdul is a devout Muslim and the woman is totaly naked.
Embarassed the trooper says "Riding a bicycle ! ".
at that, Abdul raises his M1 carbine and shoots the shit out of the bloke.
Tpr.. "What the F... ,Oh My God, Abdul what the hell?"
Abdul " Abdul's bicycle"
well it gave me a chuckle anyway.
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 10:49:07 (ZULU)
I re-read my post after your reply and can see how you might take it as an insult. It was NOT intended that way! Your post was great and to the best of my knowledge very accurate. The bit about the catalog and the book were put in because I have noticed that there are a lot of questions posted on the Roster that they would answer and also provide an at home reference for others like me that are novice precision shooters. Again please accept my apology. Also I very much would like to know if your source of information is in print form as I would like to get a copy. I will be more careful in the future, If I still have a future on the Roster. I also re-read the Roster instructions and won't post anymore except to ask questions. Again sorry.
JE
Jerry Lee Edwards (pandora) <grimm@atlantic.net>
Chuluota, Florida, USA - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 11:09:49 (ZULU)
OK I bedded my 700VS before Christmas but my best groups are still 1.5” to 2” @100yds. Pretty much the same as before bedding. In a five shot group I get three touching or thereabouts and two fliers out to the right usually between 2 and 4 ‘clock. Yes I know it could just be my crap shooting but I don’t think so. (I can shoot sub inch with my .223 )The fliers happen in no particular order so it’s not a cold bore or heat thing. The crown looks good but there seems to be a raised rough spot in one of the rifling grooves about an inch and a quarter from the muzzle. Is this the most probable cause and if so what is the best way to polish it out without knackering the rifling? ( I’d like to try that before chopping 2” off the barrel and recrowning.) Also if I were to recrown it myself what is the best way (ie product) to treat/reblue /seal the bare metal to prevent rust. It’s a Rem factory barrel in case you hadn’t guessed. Strange thing is it still managed to make centre hits on figure 11 targets at 1000 yards. Is it possible this is just a short range thing, like some yaw effect or something? (ok unlikely, but I’m clutching at straws here.) Ammo is 175SMK’s over 44.5grains Varget in Win cases and CCI primers.
Lito
Shame Undude wasn’t around to read Jerry Lee E’s post. He’d have wet his pants. ;-)
Spectre.
Can’t see a L.E. application for crossbows. I’m sure some of the SF/spook types have investigated crossbows. Not your big T shaped ones either..... Not much advantage over today’s silenced weapons, apart from heat signature.
Mark D
Mark D <dougie@mill.co.uk>
London, England - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 11:27:36 (ZULU)
Lapua Sniper Competition
Lapua Sniper Competition takes place at Lapua on 19th - 20th July, 2003.
Questions and registrations to Janne Pohjoispää, tel. +358-6-4310 232 or
e-mail: janne.pohjoispaa@nammo.fi
TorF <torf@aftenposten.no>
Oslo, Norway - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 11:43:41 (ZULU)
You have mail. N/A.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 12:05:04 (ZULU)
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 13:29:15 (ZULU)
Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
- Monday, January 13, 2003, at 13:35:45 (ZULU)
JRMoore
JRMoore <utl@shentel.net>
Northern, Virginy, USofWonderfulA - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 14:15:33 (ZULU)
Welcome back!! and a great post, you still never cease to amaze me with your depth of knowledge, your still my idol!!
JR..
I know the feeling, after I came home from Nam I would come to the dinner table with a hard on and go to bed hungry. Your system will adjust itself. Hope you had a great visit!!
Gooch..
Glad to hear the wife is doing better and things are going well for you, you deserve a break.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com >
- Monday, January 13, 2003, at 14:24:41 (ZULU)
My advance apology for a long, non shooting post.
OK, here's the problem. I'm an 11 year active duty USAF veteran (including Desert Storm). I got out about 10 years ago. Now, I want very much to get back in with the Air Nat'l Guard. The recruiters I've talked to say that because I USED to have migraine head aches, that I'm permanently barred from service. That's just unacceptable to me. I need to know if any of you have any ideas on how I might get my minor condition waivered. Hell, I've been around the military enough to know that they can waiver just about anything they want to.
Guys, this is really pissing me off. When Desert Storm came up, nobody said "Well Sarge, you can't go because of your history of the occasional migraine." Indeed, our squadron commander just told us to say our goodby's and get our gear and be on the ramp in 3 hours 'cause we were leaving ! Now, I just want to get back in uniform and do whatever I can do for the country. I'm not B.S.ing here or just wanting benefits..hell, this would cost me a good deal of money. Like I tell the recruiters, I'm already trained. My family and I already know what going to war means. Heck, I think my uniforms will still fit. I just need a waiver or an honest med-eval. If, upon a medical exam, they told me that I wasn't "good to go", well then I'll just shut up and stay home. But I AM good to go. Right now, it looks to me like we need some folks to stand up and do their duty. Well, here I am. Ready to go.
Sorry again for the long post, but I'm at a loss for what to do next. I thought I might as well go unconventional and ask around the mighty brain trust in here for ideas !
If any of y'all know anything I might try, please hit my e-mail, as I don't get to read up on the roster as much as I'd like. Thanx for reading this and thanx in adv. for any assistance !
AB
p.s If there happened to be any additional info you might need from me, lemme know, I can sure get it. Oh yea...almost forgot..honorable service, honorably discharged :)
Aaron <bouser@arkansas.net>
Blytheville, Ar., U.S. of (Smile when you say it) A. - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 16:55:15 (ZULU)
Managed to shoot just a little this weekend. Geoff came up, and in between honey-do's, I got a little trigger time too.
First, there was a 45 degree diff in temp from original zero to Saturday's shoot. 2MOA drop in zero resulted. 55 degrees for zero, 10, with a brisk wind, on saturday. Sub zero wind chill also has detrimental effects on basic markmanship...Geoff did good-but I was ugly.
Second, my range channels wind; across the highground it will blow in the prevailing direction, in the valley you'll get swirls, sometimes as much as 90 degrees off prevailing wind, and in unusual southerly conditions, there are low level sheers. Guess what we dealt with...
Last, I pulled my mount off the M21 and since Geoff was coming, put it back on. The instructions have a step, after final torque of the side camming screw, to loosen the clip guide screw and re-torque. This step is a horrible idea, as once you do, any torsion from the side screw will throw the mount sideways. Naturally, my reciever isn't exactly true, so this happened. Whatta pain in da butt. I had a smith install it first time--but I had to take it off out of foolish curiosity (checking for corrosion--none...). We figured out that the second adjustment to the clip guide was allowing the mount to pull left of center--so the fix was to skip that silly step and use a plum line off the sights to force the thing into alignment. A recipe for loosening. Thank god for locktite.
And finally, once the conditions were adjusted, the M21 was mechanically zeroed, and the winds aligned to the range--I had to go inside and set up the Pony Party for Make a Wish. Geoff reluctantly remained on the firing line, continuing to pour precision fire downrange, though he "be the lone survivor." Ha. As I whipped up deviled eggs, I heard the bark of 7.62 echoing through my hills. Talk about hating life...
Nicole's Pony Party was a huge hit. Make a wish brought the POA (Trixie forever more), a month's worth of hay, a saddle (tiny), halters and bridles, Roper Boots, western wear, and a party kit from hell as well as local press. Impressive organization. I had to hide the weaponry though--can't be scaring them off on Nicole's big day!
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Monday, January 13, 2003, at 16:56:33 (ZULU)
Welcome back!! and a great post, you still never cease to amaze me with your depth of knowledge, your still my idol!!<<<<<<<
Careful there. You know Lito suffers enough from a swelled head as it is. Just keep him in Cheese N Mac and he's good to go. Now throw him some decent cajun cuisine and a couple of cases of good ale and he'll explain to you the thermodynamics of the sun, nuclear physiology, and why the pointy end of a bullet could ruin your whole day. Hell, he even knows how to spell chile.
Just kidding Catshooter. You just keep posting and forget about the rest. That post on parallax went straight to my hard drive. Good stuff....damn good stuff...and good to see you back.
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 17:23:56 (ZULU)
Mister Gooch; Glad to hear the wife is on the mend. Not many things worse than watching a wife or child hurt.
You that know; Katy did well w/ her last surgery. More tests pending on the B/P thing.
Thoughts and prayers are accomplished for all "our" loved ones that need 'em.
Spud
dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
merced, KA, u - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 17:45:40 (ZULU)
Does anyone know where I can get a big(poster sized) print of the famous picture of LCpl. Dalton Gunderson? That picture with him shown sitting with a Model 70 over his knee. I'm sure you've all seen the picture. Thanks.
Semper Fi
Steve
Steve <TeufelHund7599@cs.com>
Corpus Christi, TX, USA - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 18:04:15 (ZULU)
lito
dissertation duley noted!!!!
aye we missed ya!!!!!
MACGREGOR
macgregor <brownc@kos.net>
an AMERICANadian up here in CANADIA, - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 19:52:43 (ZULU)
lito
dissertation duley noted!!!!
aye we missed ya!!!!!
MACGREGOR
macgregor <brownc@kos.net>
an AMERICANadian up here in CANADIA, - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 19:53:14 (ZULU)
This must be an issue in "04". Please! Keep it going.
SOCIAL SECURITY:
(This is worth the read.)
Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years. Our Senators and Congress men & women do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it.
You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of
their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan.
In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan.
For all practical purposes their plan works like this: When they
retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die, except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments. For example, former Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives.
This is calculated on an average life span for each.
Their cost for this excellent plan is $00.00. Nada. Zilch. This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds-our tax dollars at work!
From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into-every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer) --we can expect to get an average $1,000 per month after retirement. Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000. monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's benefits!
Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made. That change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us ... then sit back and watch how fast they would fix it.
If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be
planted and maybe good changes will evolve.
Joe Heston <hestonj@zachry.com>
SA, TX, US ofA - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 20:31:59 (ZULU)
"Think twice, before forwarding the above email message to others. It offers no evidence whatsoever to back up its claims, nor any realistic plan of action. Thinking people will rightly regard it as junk."
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blcongress.htm
jared hunter <jared@mc2studios.com>
San Antonio, Tx, USA - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 21:25:54 (ZULU)
You have mail. No attachments.
Winchester;
Anyone here have any experience with the Winchester X2 shotgun?
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 22:51:50 (ZULU)
Humor
2033 News release
Congress announced that a decision had been made about whether to send US Marine to Iraq or Korea in ref. to the thirty year debate about those two Dictatorships, when Pres. Chelsey Clinton volunteers to flip a coin. Pres. Clinton also asked for a doubling of the US defense budget so that a Marine could be sent "one each" to Iraq and Korea.
Commandant Of the Marine Corps announcing his retirement states "I'm sick and tired of worrying whether I'm going to Iraq or Korea, I'm out of here".
Tippy
Terry Hoover <Thooverusmcv68@aol.com>
Kansas City , Kansas, - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 22:53:34 (ZULU)
If this don't make you puke your lunch, then you're a pinko, liberal son-of-a-bitch!
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul70.html
---
Jerry Lee Edwards...
You add insult to injury and call me "Mister"! Mang, you're lucky you don't live up this way, or I'd whack you on your little wet nose with a rolled up newspaper...twice!
First... it's obvious you are a sucker at the USO trough, cuz only the greenie kids talk like that about that company. If you had any real idea about what goes on with USO, and how many unhappy customers there are, you would be doubly embarrased.
Well, stop saving your allowence and soda can money, and get a functioning scope from someone else. At a sniper match last year, the guys that owned USO scopes that were UNHAPPY, outnumbered the happy ones by about 3:1... and even a USO dealer at the match admitted that service was "terrible" and many scopes came out of the shop that were build to the wrong specs... about half of the orders are built wrong... most of the mildot scopes AREN'T mildots, the mil measurments can be allover the place, and when you complain that they aren't accurate, Ol' john says he doesn't like mildots anyway... and then it's YOUR fault, becasue you didn't order it right (even when you did!!)
The father (John) says "don't talk to my son, talk to me"... the son says "Don't talk to my father, talk to me"... they use their consultants until they have been bled dry, then dump them like a hot rock, and then "Charge" them for the items that they were sent for evaluation (and, NO, I was never a consultant for them, but I HAVE been a consultant to Leupold for their military line).
... and if you are under 18, I forgive you for your stupid remarks. The same as I would for my son... but then you would be too young to be on this site... if you are over 18, you should know better, so your nose is an open target of opportunity for a rolled up New York Times (the only thing that paper is good for).
Where did I get my optical knowledge? I was a director of research at Columbia University for three years, and their High Energy Suite for one year... also add Nikon instrument division, and Carl Zeiss... I didn't get my 7 pages from a book... I wrote it for the FatDude. He's the one that asked me (three times) to post it here.
---
Mk4...
Don't worry. I pay Pat (HA!) 50 cents every time he says somfin' nice about me. It's the only way I can get compliments.
---
Just passin' through, lookin' for dem kitties.
---
'lito
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 23:11:53 (ZULU)
If I have a "Stray Kitten UKD" event,, you gonna come on down for the match ;))
Thanks for posting it,, I've read it about 8 times,, and it's become part of my archive,, along with Rick's explination on how to Favor and Hold, wind reads and Gooch's numerous contributions.
Pat,
You had any time to wring out that 260 lately? Has Jr sent your FagMag home with the new tube? (I didn't think so ;)))
Fellas,, seems I need a big ass fat 'ol whack with the newspaper,, and George should be doing it. The throat on the FagMag was NOT burned out .06",, I fukt up my measurement because I wasn't using the correct tool to measure, and I accept my swat. So, with a new crown on her and some other small tweeks, I'll be back to whippin' some 308 ass in about two weeks,, when the NXS comes back from Nightforce.
Oh,, and anyone wanting to know about fast turn around and outstanding customer service. I shipped my rifle back to George last Wednesday, and shipped my scope to Lightforce USA Thursday. The rifle is on it's way home,, and the scope hasn't made it to ID yet.... I'm not trying to imply that's the average turn around,, but I've got a shat eatin' grin from ear to ear (;
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Monday, January 13, 2003, at 23:40:10 (ZULU)
....he'll explain to you the thermodynamics of the sun....
reminds me of an old joke: can't resist.
"The Thermodynamics of Hell"
The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid term. The answer by one student was so "profound" that the Professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of course, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.
Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?
Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant.
One student, however, wrote the following:
First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing over time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave.
Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, lets look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell.
Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.
Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added. This gives two possibilities:
1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
2. Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.
So which is it? If we accept the postulation given to me by Karen during my Freshman year, "...that it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you.", and taking into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having relations with her, then, #2 cannot be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze.
The student received the only "A" given.
Have a good day gents.
Deputy Doug
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K town, WI, US of A - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 00:05:00 (ZULU)
New virus (36 hrs. since discovered)......W32/Sobig@MM.......comes w/attachment from "big@boss.com" (supposedly.)
McAfee caught it. The damn thing had THREE files that were infected!!!
For complete info, go to :
http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99950.htm
IMHO, the FBI, NSA, and all other relevant alphabet agencies should be devoting maximum effort into tracking these dickless wonders down. We've done it before, caught the weenie who did the Melissa virus, caught the Filipino a couple years back......
THEN:
The courts should sentence the responsible party to life without parole....preferably in a cell with a 300 pound buggerer named "Bubba", although the virus-generator might take that as the equivalent of a Club Med vacation.
These virus attacks are not simple pranks. They are a threat to our national security. They should be investigated and prosecuted as such.
Keep your virus definitions updated daily, guys.
Best Regards,
Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 00:33:58 (ZULU)
Kimbershooter <ricki@i-c.net>
Disputanta, Va., USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 01:04:06 (ZULU)
Just got back from a cross country flight to the lovely Charleston S.C. area and am beat. But, anyone know where I can get name tapes for MARPAT utilities? Picked up a set from a buddy in New River but need friggin name tapes.
Aaron.
Yeah, you speak the "M" word and the docs get all weird. I know that a history of migraines (i.e. in your med jacket) will probably bar you from a flight status, as far as regular duties, all I can say is check with the flight surgeon/Mil hospital, or try the MEPS station in your area and pick the brains of the medical screeners that they have there and see if migraines are waiverable for duty.
And a couple of weeks back, someone (I think Don Smith) gave me a load for my LC .308 brass. Well, got some of it loaded up and it is a rock solid load. Thanks
Keep the greasy side down
Kush out
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 01:13:02 (ZULU)
'Lito, you are the chile peppers in this pot of soup mang! ;-)
Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 01:28:13 (ZULU)
Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 01:31:37 (ZULU)
You have mail w/ no attachments.
Hawgs, Masters, Patrons, Nobility, Rosterfarians, Council and Lurkers.
If I'm not mistakes,, Mr. Suttles went under the knife today. Maybe a little prayer for a speedy and complete recovery would help. Just a thought.
And possibly one for Gooch,Undude, and all the others out there who watch over us, where ever they many be.....
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 02:34:49 (ZULU)
Ok, Im stupmed. I went to the range a few days ago. Weather was 20 degrees colder and the humidity was down from 80% to 40%. WHY where the bullet strikes one MOA HIGHER?????
Liot, Thats not they way adjust my scope I close both eyes and dont touch nothing. Damn now I can not claim ignorance, although some of you would debate that point. You disertation caused my printer to go tits up. I will print it from my wife PC and then take the steps to adjust things properly. Good peice of work that should be stuck in the "How To" section of the site...
Dirty Steve, Out.
Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, US of A - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 03:11:34 (ZULU)
Update on Steve Suttles :
Bobby Whittington saw Steve today, and apparently the surgery turned out really well, about the best case scenario.
As Chris said, now it's time for prayers and thoughts for speedy and complete recovery.
I sent a small card; I know many of you (here and other boards) sent cards and things as well. I'm sure he appreciates the thoughts from his fellow shooters. Thanks.
John L
John Leveron <john@leveron.com>
Mid-MO, U.S.A. - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 04:28:57 (ZULU)
Guys, sent out a group offline thread by email. If you get one from me, and the subject looks real, it's legit. I've got a condom on my computer, so no viruses possible.
My prayers and best wishes to those who need. Even when I'm too busy to post, which is the norm, I do keep up with what's going on.
Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 04:37:20 (ZULU)
I have a GA Prec rifle with 400 rounds through a schneider bbl. Considering moly coating. I have heard the pros would like to know the cons..opinions?
Resectfully,
Jim "greeceman" Shilling
greeceman <greeceman8@cs.com>
cordova, tn, usa - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 05:47:42 (ZULU)
Bought one for my sons' 9th birthday this year. He's moved up to semi-auto! We put some beverage cans about 50 or 60 feet away and he proceeded to hit both with amazing regularity. After 2 magazines I decided to try; for a $150.00 floating plastic rifle, I was amazed. I introduced him to the double tap on the next mag and damn, 2 first round hits. The boy is a natural. Can you see my pride showing?
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 10:48:59 (ZULU)
Gary Kaney <yenak.gl@verizon.net>
N.W., ILL, - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 11:59:16 (ZULU)
We're gonna have to send jc over to give ya a good slap!!
Don't listen to Highpower across the course guys when it comes to a rifle that you need to count on a CBS hitting. That's why all them Moly guys used fouled barrels when they shoot legs. (so do most non Moly guys ;))
I'd get more into it, but I've gotta split for work. More to follow, but I fear you may have woken a sleeping giant.
Have you checked the Hot Tip and Cold Shots section yet?
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 12:30:01 (ZULU)
FWIW, While on business in Florida last week I logged three hours in a 172 and took 16 hours of ground school/FAA test prep. I feel a new hobby coming on.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 12:32:52 (ZULU)
And you thought shooting was expensive? Congratulations. In every discipline or sport, the more intelligent and conscientious participants we attract, the better the sport. You'll be a fine addition to the flying community. Go get your student medical before you spend much more money though. I fear your incident in China may require some intensive pape work on the part of you and your physician. Hopefully, it will all work out well. Call me about the road trip sometime.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 13:00:28 (ZULU)
My (big) nose is stinging! (Question) I hope that this means that you have accepted my apology? I guess that I am a sucker 'cause
I have a ST-10x44. I would be pleased if I could send it to you for your evaluation, IF you promise not to use it as a proctoscope. (Last question) This is NOT meant as sarcasm! Please consider writing a book or pamphlet on scopes and scope evaluation. You could make it available through the SCPX. I would be the first to buy it and request that it be an author autographed copy. Gotta' go get a kleenex, my nose is startin' to bleed.
JE
Jerry Lee Edwards (pandora) <grimm@atlantic.net>
Chuluota, Florida, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 13:56:37 (ZULU)
Funny you should mention that!! I was out last night and shot at 700yds again. I got some more 142s and 140MKs. The 140MKs can be seated out to the rifling and still fit the magazine. The 142s won't even come close.
I checked the zeros of both at 100yds, with the 140 and 142s just off the lands. The 142s ripped a small hole and the 140s were around a .5.
I had a 5 to 7 full value wind so I dialed accordingly and shot a group of 140MKs. I had a vertical spread of 3.7" and a horz. spread of around 7" with 4 in about 4.5". Then I shot the 142s and they were just exactly the opposit of the 140MKs!! If you would have taken the 140s group and stood it on end that was how it measured out. One shoots vertical and the other horzontal!!
I have other problems too (If you can believe that) I think my scope is taking a crap!! I dialed it to 700yds last night and my groups shot 12" low. It did this the last time I shot too but thought is was the 140s hitting different. Well it wasn't, the 142s shot in the same place. I thought it may be because of the heavy cold air(17 degrees)but as I was leaving I decided to shoot 5 at 400yds so I dialed it to 400 and shot a group. I was nearly 20" low!! It was as if I hadn't even dialed the scope.
I made up a 4 foot scale in 1" lines to check it out tonight and see if I have some wore out gears in the scope. Its my first 3.5x10LR and its on the 4th barrel with two different rifles. Thats a lot of dialing so maybe it is wore out. I will find out tonight and let you know.
So as you can see, I am still frustrated and haven't figured out which bullet to shoot yet. Other than that things have been quiet.
Catman..
If you read my post to Chris on the scope what do you think??? Can the gears wear out in them or can something come loose?? Thanks!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 14:19:45 (ZULU)
The FAA paper work for my medical is huge. But like eating an elephant I'll take it one bite at a time. AOPA is a big help and they are guiding me through it all. Without the medical certificate I won't go far. Wish me luck.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 14:25:47 (ZULU)
A "Sir" gets you a third whack on the nose!
Books are time consuming to write, expensive to publish, and this bunch is the cheapest on the internet. Making money by selling on the PX is a lose-lose proposition :((
-
Pat (HA!)...
I can't find the thing on the scope... e-mail me about it.
-
'lito
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 15:07:33 (ZULU)
On the SuperX2.....they seem to have a good rep. Go to www.shotgunsports.com in the talk section to find discussion on the X2 and Browning Gold which is about the same action with a few small differences. The site was temporarily down, but it might be up by the time you read this.
I almost bought an X2 before I found a Browning A5 Stalker. The old A5 design is about the most reliable shotgun I've used over the years. It just fits and points so naturally. Yeah, I love those classics....I wonder if that means I'm just getting old. I need another one to set up for slugs and buck.
Jerry S. <jtmstor@rrv.net>
Sub zero, frozen rabbit country, MN, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 16:27:22 (ZULU)
Good luck. It's a wonderful past time.
TonyY <ayackowski@pershing.com>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 16:54:37 (ZULU)
Catman, great explanation of parallex. Hope you are doing well, My main rifle has a Premiere Generation Two scope on it from Leupold, so dont expect any arguements.
Hope Steve is doing better. I will pray for him.
Shoud be back in Cont US on Friday and man I am going to kiss the ground when I return.
Peter, been staying with some Britts. Took great care of me when I got hurt. I think just so they could give me crap over being a Yank. All I have to say about that is I wont forget the kindness shown and God save the Queen!
Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 17:27:25 (ZULU)
I am a commercial airline pilot. We have some med. consultants through our union that specialize in getting ones medical back. If you want any extra push I will get the name and number, they will charge you I am sure. I have as yet to use them but it may be worth it to you.
FatBoy,
I wear a anti-nose slap face mask every time I sign now. Thanks for the info on Moly, it will keep me clear of it.
Thanks again to you also 'Lito
Regards,
Greeceman
Jim "Greeceman" Shilling <greeceman8@cs.com>
cordova, Tn, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 17:34:34 (ZULU)
Jan 14 17:29:12 spanky sendmail[15054]: h0EHT6m15054: from=<big@boss.com>, size=89266, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200301141729.h0EHT6m15054@spanky.aspiringtech.net>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=cs2416733-125.houston.rr.com [24.167.33.125]
..... roadrunner cable in houston texas... I guarantee... that if you call them up and give them ...hmmm say that cs2416733 number... they'd probably act on it....
out
Ken Hunter <ken@hunters.org>
nokesville, va, USofA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 17:37:35 (ZULU)
Jan 14 17:53:31 spanky sendmail[15338]: h0EHrUm15338: from=<big@boss.com>, size=89269, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200301141753.h0EHrUm15338@spanky.aspiringtech.net>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=[209.193.169.139]
take a look at the relay= line....
that ip address comes from:
OrgName: Allegiance Telecom Companies Worldwide
OrgID: ATCW
NetRange: 209.193.128.0 - 209.193.255.255
CIDR: 209.193.128.0/17
NetName: ALGX-KVX-BLK2
NetHandle: NET-209-193-128-0-1
Parent: NET-209-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NSF.ALGX.NET
NameServer: NSE.ALGX.NET
Comment:
RegDate: 1998-03-04
Updated: 2002-12-24
TechHandle: ZA141-ARIN
TechName: Allegiance Internet
TechPhone: +1-800-581-8711
TechEmail: ipreq@algx.net
OrgAbuseHandle: AARA-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: ALGX Abuse Role Account
OrgAbusePhone: +1-240-616-2155
OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@algx.net
OrgNOCHandle: ANCC-ARIN
OrgNOCName: ALGX Network Control Center
OrgNOCPhone: +1-866-696-2794
OrgNOCEmail: noc@algx.net
OrgTechHandle: ZA141-ARIN
OrgTechName: Allegiance Internet
OrgTechPhone: +1-800-581-8711
OrgTechEmail: ipreq@algx.net
ken hunter <ken@hunters.org>
nokesville, va, usofa - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 17:56:30 (ZULU)
Email me a quick note with a one-over-the-world of the DQ (PMR/TMR if you know for sure). The usarec in my address is recruiting command. You are, pardon the expression, a project. May take up to 3 months to get an exception, and unless you're kickin' butt--they may not have the time to invest, hence the blow-off. On the other hand, we kick ass, and I do have the time for good people. Contact me, and we'll talk specifics. I'll give ya the numbers in response for direct commo. Too damned easy, really. Just time consuming...
Deputy Doug,
Oh, Hell...come up and shoot, but be prepared for "it" to freeze over. Jokes like that are welcome for dinner, too! That one wuz a hoot!
Hawgs,
Back on the cold range day--the FN SPR stopped shooting about the same time I froze solid. Oil in the bolt locked the firing pin enough to cease ignition. Hmmm. Reminded me of Alaska. Except I thought it weren't cold enough for that kinda thing until it was well below zero. Anyone else have this problem? Maybe I had some moisture in there somehow? Radio had it at 5 deg. F, my thermometer said 12F. I thought it weird...
Then, Geoff's mouse gun bit me. So I went to Lauer's Guns in Chippewa, WI last night. Great place, fantastic folks (but not exactly SC people--they like to quietly spray .223 out to about 300 yds max). Anyway, I sat at the bench and put together an upper with some tutoring (I am sure they took it apart though). I had a grand time. My 1SG is buying his first mousegun from these guys--as will I upon DEROS. I think I made 4 new best friends in that shop--and I only stopped in once before. Anyone who has ever held a firearm gets the same treatment there by all accounts.
Kush,
I know a phrog flies fasterer than my ride, but that still sounds like a brutal x-country jaunt.
Lito-
I laughed so damn hard when I read Jerry lee's post...cuz I knew what wuz coming. The archives are the ONLY place to start BEFORE you make that first post. Aww hell, who am I to talk? I got the NY times in the nose for the same reason. BTW--thanks for the advice on the 870---all this Browning talk made me realize how many boxes of 308 I can buy with the savings. 13 pheasants and one turkey so far have died, and extra money for an A5 wouldn't change that outcome at all! My 870 is the perfect choice for a working gun. So, thanks for all the advice--and keep posting more. You are heeded in all matters and we all are better for it. BTW-learned something about you (reference your resume in the last post). "Sir" ain't exactly a bad title for ya. I was suitably impressed by what may be common knowledge by long time rosterfarians...
The "Cat" is outta da bag! Lito is a freakin' genious...once suspected, now confirmed.
Hey, I rode the short bus...so I'ze slow...
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 18:16:46 (ZULU)
Jan 14 18:21:05 spanky sendmail[15635]: h0EIKxm15635: from=<big@boss.com>, size=89265, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200301141820.h0EIKxm15635@spanky.aspiringtech.net>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=adsl-66-141-19-91.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [66.141.19.91]
such as SouthWestern Bell in ... I'd say houston texas...
ken hunter <ken@hunters.org>
nokesville, va, usofa - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 18:23:33 (ZULU)
Later
Kush out
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 18:45:14 (ZULU)
Chris, so why is the NXS back at niteforce(or was that Hakko)?
My wifes birthday today, big 34.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 18:56:55 (ZULU)
Oh the smell of hoppes#9 and cutting oil in the morning, it's good to be back to work.. Anyone here shoot the 7.5 Swiss? confusing round, don't quite understand the logic of it yet, but people are ordering them(mad Swiss people)...
Hey, does anyone here deal with a Ben Shilling from Rapid City SoDak for any of their riffles, rebarrels, or what not?
later
oh, MikeM!! how in THE hell did you bust yourself up.. f'n gung ho from San Di-e-go(it rhymes damnit), get your butt home and soak it in cider.. ya old bastad, that's why they draft us young, we bounce..Nah good to see your in one piece (un)dude, well with a few extra floaties.. F'n hell, they send ya some brit lassies to take care of you? Christ, if you're recanting 'God Save the Queen' there can be no doubt, who needs crutches....
JR
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 19:55:38 (ZULU)
Just a quick thanx to y'all that took the time to send me advice on my trouble getting back in the military. Jody, Kush & Joe especially. :)
Anyone in here ever serve in a C.L.C.M. outfit ?
AB
Aaron <bouser@arkansas.net>
blytheville, ar, U.S. of (Smile when you say it) A. - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 20:11:43 (ZULU)
The last time I saw the newer version, they were 150.00. I don't relish the idea of doing that if I can get this one fixed.
You guys have always been a wonderful soruce of information. I have even brought and sold a few things few here. Any help or advice would be appreciated.
Doug B <DougBaldwin81@msn.com>
Dunedin, FL, - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 20:16:10 (ZULU)
MATCH UPDATE
I put in an order a few minutes ago for a George Gardner rifle that will be raffled off as a prize at the match. That translates to a 1 in 30 chance of winning a new rifle and shooting a great match all in the same weekend. CRS prevents me from remembering the odds of winning in a normal SC rifle raffle, but I have to believe 1 in 30 is more betterer. The best part is we still have a few slots. That's it for now.
Rod
rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 20:38:30 (ZULU)
Doug,
CALL STEYR!!!Perhaps you all ready did, and if so, call me s*&$head, then rant on..
And I apologise if I offended, but sheesh, some of youse guys shoot straight to the DR when you should be usin' yer noggins.. when in doubt, go straight to the source first....
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 20:55:22 (ZULU)
RE: Crossbows.
Wonderful feedback!
RE: "During protest march, community leaders and civil rights activists denounce police officials who authorized use of razor sharp arrow shot from mideval weapon to kill youth." When I mentioned "flammable environments," by no means did I intend the overheated atmosphere of a protest march, or even a large gathering of practicing pot-heads! :-)
What I have are questions on the utility of a certain weapon and about the tactics employing it, not comments on politics!
QUESTIONS ON SITUATIONS AND USES
I was thinking the place to use a crossbow would be places like Houston, TX's Ship Canal, or other places with large, petrochemical installations: lots of big tanks of very flammable stuff, lots of fumes of all kinds floating around, constantly changing, negating the use of a firearm. The situations I was thinking of are 1.) a suicide with Zippo, or 2.) a War-on-Terror type hostage-taking in the middle of said petrochemical plant.
In situation 1:
If negotiations fail, the crossbow could put a wooden bolt into the brain of the Suicide before said brain could send the message to the hand: "Flick your Bic." Zero danger of explosion or fire taking place.
In Situation 2:
"Ha!" thinks the hostage-taking leader, "vaunted FBI HRT, what can they do here? They do not dare fire weapon into this place: one ricochet and they achieve all the terror I desire: hostages burned alive, petrochemical plant destroyed, while I and all my team go to their eternal reward."
Still, the leader places sentries at various vantage places, to warn him and to tell him when and where the cash-laden helicopters land to take him and his hostages to "freedom" (John, your knowledge of flammable gas clouds comes in handy here: in a petrochemical plant, where would the clouds be, and in what proportions, where sentries would most likely be placed?).
So, if negotiations fail, and it is time for the HRT to make their move, the snipers, using crossbows and wooden bolts, take out the sentries with quiet, quick, coordinated shots, without any danger of igniting the facility. HRT moves in close, with the hostage-taking leader blissfully ignorant that his eternal reward is coming to him very quickly.
What do you think?
Spectre
Spectre <leslienordman@hotmail.com>
U.S.A. - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 21:00:17 (ZULU)
Guess the moly issue is one that stirred up a lot of discussion(before I spent any time on SC)here. The rifle had 350 through the bbl from previous owner just trying to get the feel of long distance shooting and the best way to get the best groups. Thanks and sorry!!
Greeceman
greeceman <greeceman8@cs.com>
cordova , tn, 38018 - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 21:02:08 (ZULU)
"What happens after the snipers take the sentries out?"
As to the close-and-dirty part of this fun little scenario, I leave to your fertile imaginations. :-)
Spectre
Spectre <leslienordman@hotmail.com>
U.S.A. - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 21:02:26 (ZULU)
Anyway, Spectre, does lead spark?
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 21:14:47 (ZULU)
Steyr is producing them again. The quick way to tell if its a new or old mag, is that the old mags had a transparent back, the new ones have a black back.
There's a guy in the UK selling them for about $80. web contact details are below, but I'd try shopping around in the US first, as EVERYTHING is cheaper in America (as I'm sure a jetlagged JR knows only too well).
http://www.practicalrifle.co.uk/prnl/contacts.html
Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 21:19:42 (ZULU)
Good to hear on the George Gardner rifle for ASC#2. Even with the 1 in 30 odds I'll still lose but at least my odds are better than normal ;)
How many more slots you have open? Maybe I'll see if I can get some more people up my way.
Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
- Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 21:23:40 (ZULU)
No biggie on the Moly,, but it's been done to death. Those that use it will continue to use it and those that hate it will continue to hate it. The main problem comes in when you shoot Moly and then clean it all out. The first few shots are all over the place. With naked bullets,, this is far less of a problem. Also,, when you have a bore prepped with Moly and shoot brights, it can (and most likely will) change your POI.
I have considered using Moly in my XTC service rifle, becuase I hate cleaning it and a little Kroil/Shooter Choice and a few wet patches and I'm good to go for the next match. I get a couple sighters anyway,, but my hunting rifles and rifles that I need a good CBS shot with will never see Moly.
If you can take the initail beating from the Patrons,, this is the place. I would recommend spending about a week of down time and reading the archives from about '98 to present. It'll get you up to speed on the background of long standing threads,, and might bring up some old sheep stories;))
Pat,
Looks like it's time for a rebuild on that scope. As I recall,, you checked the base and rings,, and 20" POI/POA is a pretty big difference. If you don't the way the 260 is treating ya,, you can always make it into a FagMag ;) You might not loose any barrel doing it.....
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 21:26:04 (ZULU)
Excuse me sir. Please pardon my impertinence. It won't happen again.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 21:30:27 (ZULU)
On the email issue - I am working on it. What I am doing is that no email will show. But somebody will still be able to send you email - via the site. The email address will be replaced by a <mail poster> link - or something like that.
When they click the link a page will open (much like the posting page), where they have to enter their details (mail, name, message subject) and what they want to send you. Then click the submit button, and their message will be mailed to you.
And they still won't have your email address, unless *you* then reply to them - your choice.
Unfortunately I'm not finished with it as I had hoped to be, and it will be a while. I was wise/foolish enough to enroll (company pays) for a one-year university certificate (MDP - basically first year of MBA, at a slightly lower level), and it is one HELLUVA lot of work! So my time for the site is going to be more restricted than it has been up till now.
But this is on my important list, as I'm getting so much rubbish it is just not funny any more.
Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
- Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 21:49:28 (ZULU)
MarkSmith <Windinmane@aol.com>
LakeCormorant, MS, - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 21:50:24 (ZULU)
Thanks for the input I will reference the postings you recomended. As far as taking a little fire from the patrons no problem it just like being at the huntin' camp, if ya cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch....
Thanks
greeceman
greceman <greeceman8@cs.com>
cordova, Tn, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 21:57:12 (ZULU)
OK, I guess your curiosity needs to be appeased. I am an LE sniper and have been hunting with a bow for 20+ years, I also have several handicapped friends who own and use crossbows so I am probably qualified to answer.
Situation #1 NO!
Situation #2 NO!
A crossbow is no more powerfull than a regular compound bow. A bow shot to the head is nearly impossible at 100 yards and it is doubtful that the bolt would have enough energy left to penetrate the head at that distance. Even if we move closer, to say 30 or 40 yards, the effective range of most crossbows, the chance of a miss is much greater than if you were using a rifle and if the shot is not perfectly straight on it will likely not penetrate the skull even at that range. Wooden crossbow bolts? It is difficult to find wooden arrows these days, I am not sure that anyone makes them and if they do they would most certainly have some type of metal point making the risk of creating sparks just as great if the target is missed. Besides, I would think that if the gas cloud is close enough to the BG to be worried about a miss setting off an explosion, then the BG would most likely be overcome by the gas negating the need for a shot. If he is smart enough to bring a gas mask then his vision is screwed and mask wearing HRT guys should be able to get close enough to neutralize him. Of course this is just MHO.
Sorry for the long post guys.
Can we put this to sleep now?
Take care all!
Rob Opp
Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 22:17:36 (ZULU)
Your PSS magazine problem is not unique. Been there, done that! Now, Dynamit Nobel in Closter, NJ {(www.DNRWS.com) TEL: (201)767-RWS1} is the licensed importer of Steyr Mannlicher, and they are the factory authorized repair center. Their 'smith is just learning the product lines, having now received all of the tooling and parts stock from GSI. He will help you out. I'm afraid you might not get the expertise of GSI, the prior importer, but a simple magazaine repair/rebuild should not be a problem. Does not have to go back to Austria. GSI was VERY good to me over the years!
Look long and hard, and try to buy another magazine just for times like this! Contact Arego's. They post a lot on gunsamerica.com.
OK Hawgs, I see no reason in the world why a person can't come to the experience of the Roaster on a firearms related question. It is not always a matter of laziness,Hell, it can be quicker than doing the research yourself! I don't know much, but I will be willing to share my misfortunes and experiences with anyone just to prevent them from going through it themselves. A little PLDC trained leadership goes a long way!
Later,
Lester
Les <LesMartin338@aol.com>
Canton, CT, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 22:48:56 (ZULU)
Pete, got the rail glued on with Araldite and the screws loctited. Off to zero the thing tomorrow. Hopefully this will be the end of the shifting zero.
Contacted Marty and mentioned the teflon on the receiver and rail problem, in passing. He suggested that teflon on the rail and receiver shouldn't be a problem, BUT, teflon in the screw holes would be. Don't know about the screw holes, but screws were certainly coated, and funny how ALL 4 screws had come undone.
Shame on you Pete for even thinking the NXS could be at fault, let alone mention it. I shake my head in disappointment ;-)
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 22:52:19 (ZULU)
Bob
Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne, Ca, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 23:01:56 (ZULU)
Crossbows essentially suck in every way possible. Bulky, one shot, strings break, limbs break. Don't take a bow to a gun fight! Plus, why the hell would an entry team want to follow a bag guy into those conditions anyway? Depending on the vapor density and LEL/UEL, he probably will take himself out either by suffocation or by providing an ignition source. He could scratch himself in the right way and POOOOOFFFF from static electricity. Plus Plus, the entry team couldn't go into those conditions either cause they would have to be wearing SCBA in order not to suffocate with the bad guy. WHEW!
Just go get a cup of coffee and a sandwich and let mother nature take her course. No arrest, no trial, won't have to pay lawyers, no breath, no questions. Just pronounce and bury! KISS principle.
MarkSmith....
Good pickup, beat me to it.
Undude.....
You must not have my football coaches over there. I was limping a little, "what's wrong Bolt?", knee hurts coach, kaaaaawwwhhaaappppppp, "feel better now", yes sir coach! Thumb was bent backards, "what's wrong Bolt?", thumb's kinda outa joint, "lemme see", jeeeerrrrkkkkkkk, "feel better now?", yes sir coach!
Peter Lincoln.....
You want a real pain in the ass??? I have to have a pilonidal cyst cut out tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dejected, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 23:18:55 (ZULU)
First, you spelled it wrong--and why the hell did yer parents name you after the AC-Mod dirty-Herc? But I digress with misnomers whence I really want to dispell misguidedness. Now, ever hear of Liability Lawsuits? Or light and variable winds, of say 5kts? So the hostage gets a splinter in the sphincter, right? Which, coincidentally, is where I suspect you pulled your scenarios. Now then, Petro-chem storage tanks of 3/4-1" steel sheathing backed up by 3000psi of pressure is no match for our barn-burnin' 22 LR. Those little things will penetrate anything at 1200fps, eh? There is a water tank in Wheaton, MD with little star patterns on it. Some punk hit it with 9mm and scratched the paint all up. Oooooh. Eeeeh. Scary...
And--The most important thing to consider--If you are worried about missing yer target in a hostage situation, wouldn't that stop you anywhere on the effin' planet? Or, is popping a a tank and crispin' yer own ass the only consideration these days? The occassional hostage that buys one of your rounds isn't such a big-hairy deal--so long as your ass ain't burnt in the process! I get it...damn. And here I was, all worried about the hostages...While I am bagging on ya, I suppose you've read all about the OSS. And you know all about their crossbow problem. They built one that would do what you want one to do, except no one wanted to carry the beast. Hell, this is the silliest crap I've seen yet round here. Take your freakin' toys and go play with all the other boys and girls. And do me a favor, if yer ever around and I am the hostage--walk away, okay? I'll extract myself.
OK, fellas, I ignored it once. I did. Really. But twice is more than I could stand...
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 23:25:10 (ZULU)
Seuss <samiam@netrax.net>
PA, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 23:25:26 (ZULU)
Sinister Dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
- Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 23:58:54 (ZULU)
It's Christmas, I'm assembling bow and arrow stuff for junior, along with Col. brother in law and Jim Beam. The col. is 1SF-D, if ya know, it's Crawler........
Anyway, we get to the broadhead part and he picks one up with a rather quizical look on his face............"ya know we used this brand to get 8 in Panama........seem to be a good choice......."
Crossbows seem to have a utilitarian usage after all.
Mike in Texas <mcdonald@hcn.hcnews.com>
Granbury, Texas, - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 00:00:15 (ZULU)
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 00:12:40 (ZULU)
I didn't tell him that I thought that this was just another excuse to keep from having me clean his clock at Butner this year! I guess getting deployed is as good an excuse as any. LOLLOLLOL
Good luck bud and maintain contact with the Hawgs! Bolt out again.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 00:23:50 (ZULU)
<<You want a real pain in the ass??? I have to have a pilonatal cyst cut out tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!>>
Oh man, that's not funny at all. I had that done 14 years ago. I was dirt poor. No job, just married you know the story. Doctor wanted to do it in the hospital put me to sleep the whole works. I had $35 dollars to my name and told him to do his best with that. Didn't want to spend the cash, but I couldn't drive anymore and had to get it fixed so I could find a job. So one shot of Novocain and cut away. I mean right away!!! He didn't even let it numb first. Holy Crap!!! I prayed for death and it wouldn't come. Then the doctor screams "Oh my God," Now I knew I was in trouble.
Nurses and doctor are running all over the place looking for enough gauze to soak up all the stuff coming out. I had no idea. There are no human words to describe what was coming out… In my last moment of consciousness I look back and see that they have left the door to my room open and every one in the waiting room is looking me in all my grossed glory.
Then I had to walk 2 miles home, because there was no way I was going to be sitting down for a while. Felt like I was living the Battan Death March. The only good part was that the doctor felt so bad about it that he didn't charge me.
Needless to say prayers going out for you immediately. And I really mean that!
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 00:26:08 (ZULU)
John :)) I kill me.
Dave,
Just saw your note, Gods Speed my man, take care.
Undude,
ACL or MCL? Glad that's all it is and you're safe.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 00:27:45 (ZULU)
Where's my doughnut to sit on? Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 00:30:05 (ZULU)
No, the semi auto crossbow is magazine fed, it's the full auto crossbow that is belt fed. :) :)
Bolt, I feel your pain man, Ifin ya can't find yer donut I can send ya one! :)
Rob Opp
Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 00:34:23 (ZULU)
Feedback for those that thought my Steyer SSG 69 magazine question was "prepubescent" (Is that Oete Townsend joke?).
I called GSI, they flipped me to Dynamit-Nobel. They sadi "if you are not a dealer we aren't talking. The dealer (Diamond Trail) says "Yeah I have been ordering the parts for the magazines but they will not ship them. The only thing I can do is sell you a new one for 175.00." And, BTW, we do not repair them, period.
I guess since I was prepubescent, at least in my technique, in my question I should not be offended that you thought i was braindead
It amazes me sometimes how nice the "gun owning, gun-using community can be to each other.
There were a couple of responses from people and I appreciated them. I will gladly buy on for 80.00 from the guy in UK if he has them. Come on guys, we are looking at OPS on three fronts, simultaneously. I limit myself to one dumbass question a year on herr. I always give somebody a break if they buy something from me from this site. I have been hanging out around here for 5 years, and don't see the need to piss in my shoe because you "judged" my question to be unworthy.
Bottomline, Steyer seems to give one rats ass about repair work on 20 year old mags. That's the real news here. I was hoping somebody had a better way, since htis is teh board of the best and brightest. I got a coupple of ideas, they are most appreciated, I will ask my next dumbass prepubescent question in 2004.
later, out
2 tours in 'Nam, 2 bronze stars and some other stuff , Golden Eagle Member, active supporter of all things related to supporting the RKBA.
Long way from "prepubescent"
Doug B <DougBaldwin81@msn.com>
Dunedin, FL, - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 00:39:26 (ZULU)
Posted by Spectre: "I was thinking the place to use a crossbow would be places like Houston, TX's Ship Canal"
Whatever you say boss. Pull your f-ing pants on.
Posted by Ken: "such as SouthWestern Bell in ... I'd say houston texas..."
Godspeed Sinister sir.
Joe, you drove to Lauer's and built yo self an upper eh? LOL. What configuration? What kind of barrel? You get the M21 zeroed?
Doug B (not Deputy Doug)....relax a bit! JR is jez cranky cuz he can't lose the jet lag AND has forgotten to talk like a yankee. He has a point, just sometimes the method of delivery around here is heavy handed. My initial icebreaker stirred a lot of shit if I remember correctly.
Out here.
Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 01:44:52 (ZULU)
Looks like we're going to have to move you from your current status of Master back to your original "Master at Large". Good luck on this deployment man. If you run into Nick,, say Hi for me will ya,, and tell him to keep his head down.
Nick Gebhardt,
If you're lurkin' mang,, be safe and keep your head down. West Memphis is rought but they don't have tanks yet. (No, the 73 caddy doesn't count)
Geoff,
Yup. The first two or three posts will expose where the metal is.
JR,
If you really need sleep, there is always booze. Start drinking when you get home and don't stop 'till ya hit the floor. Just try and make sure you pass out face down ;) "Fat Dude" is getting polished(outside) and threaded tonight!!! Chambered Thursday,, and I'm weeks away from the nearest stock... damnit!
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 02:22:30 (ZULU)
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 03:00:54 (ZULU)
Mike Miller, glad you got back in one piece, although it's a broken one. Drop me a line with your address, I've got some Japanese steel to donate to the cause. It slices, it dices, it even makes juliane fries, whatever those are. Welcome home amigo.
Pat, sounds like your scope is tango uniform. On the good side, those guys will take care of you well, assuming you get beyond the twits at the front desk.
Marius, you're the man. Way to go!
Dave, you have all my best wishes also. And here you thought you got a nice cushy job with rifle junkies. Just take care of yourself, you've got lots of us pulling for you here.
Bolt, while I have no idea what a pilot, uh, postnatal, uh, pileofnaval whatever is, get better soon, really really soon. Think of it this way, now you've got an excuse to hang about and post lots HA!
Doug B, I think you may have misunderstood the prepubescent comment. Or maybe I did. I thought it was aimed at sphincter, who appears very much to be about that age.
CDC, that's all too funny. How did I guess? LOL. By the way, your son should have another doggie box hitting the doorstep pretty quick. The picking ain't Buck Owens class, but it's good. There's a little extra in there too, the Lutheran school should have a blast with the bluegrass version of Hells Bells.
Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 03:23:16 (ZULU)
Once again Adapt improvise and overcome works best with being forwarned
Semper FI
bomac <biker3@earthlink.net>
- Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 03:26:37 (ZULU)
I put the upper together--shorty--but I didn't buy it (yet-grin). It was an Oly reciever and an ukn barrel and a handful of assorted parts. I made the mistake of saying something like "well, parts guns are for the knowledgeable--not for me..." and next thing ya know, I'm building one. (Hint--don't buy it if the gas tube looks slightly off center). We wuz on our way through--so we stopped in after hours. 1SG is buying one though. He's hooked on them mouse-guns now.
M21 is still waiting for me to thaw out from the last arctic training adventure! It's 20 below wind-chill...and I am not a sadist after all. I think the plum line idea fixed the windage issue though.
Sir(nister),
Take care of them there paratroopers...and yourself. Hope to see ya soon, but if not, I'll be in the '4 shop pushing the good stuff forward where it will be appreciated! Pushing is the word too. I'm going forward to the rear!
Just a few months ago, I thought I was sooo smart volunteering for this assignment. Now it's looking like I'm gonna be the last one to the party. How did this happen? I done outsmarted myself again. Which begs the question--am I the smart one, or the dumb one-- Or just schizo? "You're the dumb one-am not --am too ohh shut up." Never mind, me and me are going to the playground with our crossbow to shoot at gaseous fuel-air mixtures. "Oh, leave it be--No, I will not.."heheh.
We crack me up.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 03:37:16 (ZULU)
Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 03:41:18 (ZULU)
MARIUS:
RE; MBA: DO IT ......AND DO IT WITH
IMPUNITY!!!!!!
IT'S ALL IN THE FOCUS!!!!!!
AS OUR LITO WOULD SAY........
OBJECTIVE ....RETICLE....EYEPIECE....
macgregor
macgregor <brownc@kos.net>
an AMERICANadian up here in CANADIA DESPITE THEM , - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 04:16:33 (ZULU)
Doug B,
I could have sworn that 'prepubescent' thing was directed at the "Sphincter". He's been watching too much Gunny Ermey on the TV.
Sinister,
Take good care of yourself and your boys. Keep in touch with the Roaster when and if you can. Don't worry, Perry will still be there when you return - it only seems like it's gonna blow away:))
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 05:08:55 (ZULU)
I too, think the puberty comment was elsewhere directed. Jet lag is a horrible burden to bear.
Bolt...
Take 2 and call us in the afternoon. I'm not sure what it is but I'm pretty sure I don't want it. Hope you're better'n new soon.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 10:59:48 (ZULU)
Also get price on G3 30mm mount this afternoon.
Jon, you mean to tell me that Tooley didn't run a tap through the holes after the thing was coated? you might just well have oiled the sods. What you need to do to make sure it ain't loose is, glue the rail on, solder it on, glue the screws in and stake them in place, then weld the whole thing to the reciever, then wrap black and nasty (100mph tape or whatever), around it, then you know its fixed. Then when you still have wandering probs, sell me the NXS, (my boy could use a better scope for his airgun) and ask me nicely about a S&B.. gottcha ! say hi to the sheep for me !!
Re crossbows, I once saw a swan with a bolt through its kneck, it didn't seem to be worried about the obstruction. Some ass hole had shot it there and the RSPB had to cathc the swan and remove it, i think a bullet would have killed the swan. Ref the petrochem plant, sod it, blow the place sky high, who needs petrochem any way, be like me, run you diesel on cooking oil.
Guys, i'm down with the flu, got a stinking one, have to dress out a deer and thread/chamber a barrel this afternoon and i don't feel like doing either. I just wanna go to bed! the i'll be fit to get me new jeep tommorow. Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 11:04:35 (ZULU)
I have a friend that is building a custom 300RUM and he wants to get into reloading for it. Is the Rockchucker large enough to accommodate this round, or will he need a different press? Does anyone have a pet load for him to try out?
PeteL:
I hope you get to feeling better buddy! I will be sending you some E-mails soon. A friend is coming to Germany to play American football, and he has some questions about life over there..
Thanks,
TonyM
TonyM <tam308@aol.com>
FL, US of A!!!! - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 13:15:01 (ZULU)
Sarge
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 13:48:31 (ZULU)
I took my rifle out last night(Braved the cold 15 degrees and windy)to check out my 3.5x10LRs dialing problem. What I found has left me more confused than before.
I made a 4' scale on cardboard marked off in inches and set the rifle up and went to dialing. It seemed to track fine but when I got done dialing it back and forth my 100yd zero was off by about 1.5".
It was shooting 1.5" low from the original point of impact from the night before. I think I will just pull it and send it back to Leupold and let them do their thing to it, I just don't trust it anymore.
Dave..
Be careful Bud, keep your head down and your powder dry!!!
Bolt..
Damn guy, I don't know what to say other than I am damn glad its you and not me!!!(HA) Good luck and hope all goes well.
Chris..
I haven't given up yet!! There is something that I am overlooking here. This thing wants to be a shooter I just have to unlock the right combination.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 14:37:32 (ZULU)
"It's not just military capacity this nation lacks right now, however. It's an adequate sense of the seriousness of the present world crisis. It seems odd to suggest, after September 11, 2001, that the United States has still not awakened to the real challenges of this dangerous era."
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/094kdghr.asp
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 15:44:15 (ZULU)
John Leveron <john@leveron.com>
Mid MO, U.S. of A. - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 16:31:40 (ZULU)
People have a very short attention span and 9/11 has lost it's value as a tool for the polotical people to use to get there own issues passed "In the war on terror." I keep a link on my puter to a site w/ pics of that day and visit frequently just to remind myself of what happend. I am not sure what it is going to take to get this country really motivated and keep it that way for long enough to get the job done. The general public got bored after there were no more pictures of laser guided bombs hitting buildings and tanks. They thought that was the extent of the war, It worked in Gulf 1, didn't it? The only thing that Bush is going to be able to say is "I told you so..." Or "You can't say I didn't warn you.." Unfortunatly I think a lot more people are going to have to be killed before this country gets on the right path. I just hope it happens in berkley (not capitalized on purpose, due to lack of any respect for the town.)
Bolt, My dad spent 3 years in Europe in WWII, the only injury he got was a cut on the head in a pub fight in england. Days after the germans surrenderd he got put on a hospital ship and sent home after he got an infection where they tried to cut out a pilonatal cyst. Had to have 3 more cuttings before they got it.
Keep your heads down,
Bob
Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne, Ca, USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 16:55:28 (ZULU)
Starting to feel like a lurker...just off duty and wanted to post before the sleep fairy throws sleep dust in my eyes.
Have confirmed my partnership for ACS#2. Partner and I will keep it secret for now...just to confuse you all. Needless to say I'm worried about this 51 year old going out to act like a young stud, again. Started working out and dieting. Figure between now and then I might be in some kind of shape, so as not to embarass myself and my partner.
Sinister, I wished you well in private, but wanted my best wishes and prayers to "go public". You and your men come back in one piece. I'd make that an order, but you outrank me. Guess I'll pray to the big guy and hell make it an order...;-)
Have been playing with a new windage toy. Looks promising, but it's hard to quantify wind when it changes at various points between you and the target. These devices help, but it still comes down to an educated guess. Dope it, dial it, and dump it...
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Bldogett, OR, USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 19:39:03 (ZULU)
out
G.W
Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 19:40:06 (ZULU)
.....Another theory is that pilonidal cysts are acquired through trauma to the sacrococcygeal region. During World War II, more than 80,000 soldiers developed pilonidal cysts that required a hospital stay. People thought the cysts were due to irritation from riding in bumpy Jeeps. For a while it was actually called “Jeep disease.”......
Another link from the search started with a photo. Kinda scared me at first. Course, after I noticed that the link was hemeroid.net or something. Whoa!! Looked like a guy I had to arrest this past week!!
After reading a bit about that cyst thing, Ya gots my Heartfelt Sympathy Bolt. Hang in there. No pun :)
Pat, are ya better off sending that tube to Leupold or Premier Reticles? Curious (there it goes again). I been real happy with Priemer.
Deputy Doug, out
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K town, WI, US O' A - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 19:52:32 (ZULU)
Please... P-L-E-A-S-E do everyone a favor when you ask a question.
Many beginners are just too damn lazy, and just throw out simple questions, (Where can I find scope bases for my M700?) cuz they don't want to make a few phone calls, or use a search engine.
But some of you have done your homework, and still can't find a solution, or find the part you need...
So please, P-L-E-A-S-E consider asking your question like this...
>"Hey guys, I'm lookin' for a glatzinhammer for a model 69 shootzenfooger. I have altready called the dealer, the distributor, and the manufacturer, and "PARTS-R-US" and the say they don't have it<"
Don't make everyone answer your question with the obvious, or tell you to do the things you have already done... if this keeps up, the guys with the answers will just stop answering all questions, and go elsewhere.
DUH!
Ya' think?
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 20:13:12 (ZULU)
I didn't know Premier did service work for Leupolds?? I would send it to them if they do and its free.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 20:19:07 (ZULU)
I exchanged emails with 'lito about the match yesterday. His final email of the day was a question about being able to shoot his 50 BMG. The answer was Yes! It should be a really interesting match. He won't be using the 50 on our steel, just our rocks-must not be many places in Connecticut to stretch it out.
We still have four slots left. Email me if you are interested.
Rod
rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 20:26:29 (ZULU)
Man do we cover some subjects on here.
Wife dragged me out shopping, great, i cancel some deer hunting today to stay at home, and i get dragged out to the damn furnature shops !! didn't get near the lathe/gun shop(which means i didn't get a price for steyr mag or G3 mount, will in the morning) and I've still got to butcher up my deer. I best get that done, can't have meat wasting.. Pete
ps any one seen hide or hair of Paul Cockerham?
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 21:14:30 (ZULU)
I use the Rockchucker for my 300 WM and it works great, should work fine for the 300 RUM as well although I don't reload that one.
Take care!
Rob Opp
Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 21:26:39 (ZULU)
Thanks to all regarding the advice about proper question technique and strategy. My humble apologies to the more experienced among you who have little patience with repetitive questions.
I now understand that this board is reserved for the affects/effects of piles, hemmroids and cysts on the ability to hold zero on a hard target.
No harm intended, I am wiser for having made this foray amongst the gurus of this board.
And, I mean this sincerley, as I said in the original post, this place is a fantastic source of information and insight about not only the intricacies of high power, highly accurate shooting, but, the conditions of the world and the people that have a tough jobs to do in an unforgiving place. I often marvel at those that put themselves through hell to serve so many that know so little...
later, out
Doug B <DougBaldwin81@msn.com>
Dunedin, FL, - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 22:03:33 (ZULU)
you gettin' those emails at Yahoo and your house? My misses sent out a birthday wish for the old lady... Oh,, and the hemeroid discussion is something else. "Got roids from sitting on my arse",,, Ahh, life as a REMF ;)
Pat,
The rifle is crying out for a new chamber,, that's what's missing!! Oh,, and did you see the .264" 28" Lilja on the emporium? If she finished at 30",, It'd already be on the way to TN.
Gumby is home ;) Didn't even have time to go through FagMag withdrawl.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 22:54:39 (ZULU)
Last time I did business with Premier Reticle they did not do Leupold warranty repairs. I don't think that it's changed since then!
Tony M,
Never tried any of the RUM's in my Rockchucker. That's a pretty long case. Your friend should try the Redding 'Big Boss'. Not only will it accept the RUM's, 416's, etc. with ease, it'll also do the .50BMG's should the need arise. Will accept the large dia. die sets!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 23:22:07 (ZULU)
<<Bolt, while I have no idea what a pilot, uh, postnatal, uh, pileofnaval whatever is, get better soon, really really soon. Think of it this way, now you've got an excuse to hang about and post lots HA!>>
Pilonatal cyst. Hmmmmmm, how to describe. Ever see that movie "Alien"? You know the part when the little alien creature pops through the guys stomach. Pretty much the same thing except it's popping out of your butt crack where your tail bone ends. And no, it's no hemorrhoid.
Met two women who had a pilonatal cyst and said they would rather go through child birth again then do the cyst thing again.
So Bolt, did you make it sir? Hope your doing well. Oh and the only thing I could find to soak up all the oozing ... large overnight dry weave kotex. Those things are amazing. Hell that's an embarrassing thing to admit, but since some of you have admitted to wearing dresses I don't feel too bad. Boy, those were humbling days.
John
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 23:27:52 (ZULU)
John, Light Days Panty Liners with wings don't make as big a bulge! Your lady friends were correct, the first pilo cyst I had felt just slightly betterer than my last kidney stone. Makes you wonder how it feels to get shot?????/
A slightly uncomfortable Bolt, out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Wednesday, January 15, 2003, at 23:28:37 (ZULU)
There are no doubt times in the past and certainly in the future that people in the press or the general public want to know what LEO, civ and mil shooters talk about....you got to admit it would be funny to think you were going to see talk about high pwr distance macho shooting and find your self reading about....
Seriously as a junior person here and not knowing any of you personally, I hope you all find health and for those of you about to deploy good luck, gods speed!! This is a great sight y'all
Greeceman
greeceman <greeceman8@cs.com>
Cordova, Tn, USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 01:06:15 (ZULU)
Guys,
I have a scope problem. It is a 4.5-14X50 LR Leupold with mil-dot reticle and side focus. I had M-1 target knobs installed by Premier Reticle a long time ago. It seems that it shoots "loose" groups at 14X, but tightens them up when backed down to 10X or so.
I have no idea how a variable scope works internally so is it possible for something to get out of whack when moving through the power range?
Also, should I send it to Leupold or Premier Reticles? Will it be a problem to Leupold since I had the M1 knobs put on?
Thanks all.
Tim <Rokchukrslave@aol.com>
Portland, OR, USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 01:11:48 (ZULU)
I truly hope and pray that you kick ass on yer "pain in the ass" so you may once again ride an ass (or even a horse) if so choose.
And get "it" well soon, sir! Cause once we put your sick ass and it's assed-up problems "behind" us, we can all concentrate on kickin' yer now-healthy ass at a match with some really bad-ass riffles. For now, you have our collective sympathy--"but" soon, you will be the butt of some pretty funny ass jokes.
"But" in the meantime, I'll "back" off those ass jokes out of respect. Maybe we oughta talk about kicking some Terrs' ass, or just shootin' some wild-ass wildcats like Chris digs...or maybe hauling ass down to the Badlands, or some of Dan's ass-kicking intel links; or how about discussing the cold-assed "dairy-air" that froze us at the range--anything "but" your poor, sore ass...we are, if you'll pardon the expression, wearing it out. heheh.
Bolt-I hope you at least chuckled, or I am just being a horse's ass who needs and ass-chewing for assed-up humor.
Well, gotta get out my browneye's, errrrr, Brownells catalog and find me a synthetic Mod 7 stock for Blake's youthz .260.
Ben Dover (aka JM)
(OK, back to the regular rump-us)
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 01:16:20 (ZULU)
ANYTHING is funny right now LOL!
Time to get our collective asses back to shooting talk. Only four weeks until the first matches at Butner.
Speaking of shooting talk, where the heck is Bowcher?
Tim,
Please give a little more detail on what the scope is doing at 10 and 14x. What distances, what grouping, etc.?
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 01:33:40 (ZULU)
My windows are rocking. A Guard unit just unleashed a "Battery-5" on north post FP's. Uhhh, make that a batt-ten. They are humping some rounds. That isn't normal stuff, and believe me, it ain't a secret anymore either. First, it's winter, second, it's Wednesday. Neither of which are "usual" drill or AT dates. Dat would 'splain the long lines at da PX lately...and all dat desert cammy walking the post.
Heheh--hope they got good data on dem guns--this building ain't a bunker!
The "thing" that would prevent our McCoy shoot is underway.
Soon, real soon, the world will wake up to the realization that the US ain't BS'n around anymore with the bit-players. Resolute word backed up with serious action makes my morale soar. My CinC's sense of purpose has a real effect on my attitude, too. Pride and a sense of duty may be enough, but it sure is nice having a leader in charge again. This adds something to the equation that cannot be articulated. I think I'll go sing a chorus of some Lee Greenwood song now...Damn...I love the sound of outgoing artillery.
Aaaaaammmmmm Proud to be an Aaaaaammmmmerican....where at least ahh know ahhhh-mmm free....
Get some, Arty! Whooooo-hooo!
Gents, Game On! No more pissing around with the penny-ante despots!
There's a new Sheriff in town...
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 02:08:50 (ZULU)
I'm here buddy. I have sent you about 5 e-mails and none have been returned; I hope you got them. MAster Bolt just called and said that you needed to get in touch with me. I haven't had the opportunity to post here lately, but I try to skim the Roster about once every 2 weeks. You need a favor? You name it. If I can do it, I will.
By the way, I received the rings on Christmas eve. Thanks!!! They look good. I am going to try to mount them this weekend if I can sneak 10-15 minutes. That rifle will be shot in a match, by my father, on February 16th at Camp Butner. We are both looking forward to it.
I will hit you off-line about your favor. I am going to send an e-mail to both your addresses. Also, the e-mail at the bottom of this post is my current e-mail ( paulcockerham@yahoo.com )
If you do not get my e-mail, please send one to this address and I will reply. I'm not sure why your mails are not coming through or why mine aren't getting to you. Please include your postal address in your e-mail/reply if you don't mind. I have it on the back of the package you sent, but I can't make parts of it out. Well, that is all the time I have for now. I hope all you guys and your families are well. Take care.
Semper Fi
Paul <paulcockerham@yahoo.com>
NC, USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 02:21:20 (ZULU)
Thanks for the advice on the Davidson loading ramp, it arrived a couple of days ago and I fitted it that night - works a charm.
To all you guys (and girls)about to lay it on the line stay safe and return to your loved ones.
Michael.
2 ears, 2 eyes and 1 mouth - use what you have most of first.
Mick Hickey <michael.hickey@cbr.defence.gov.au>
NSW, Australia - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 02:52:51 (ZULU)
You guys kill me.
Regards all,
BKS
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 03:57:26 (ZULU)
Thanks for the Winchester info.
LATER
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 04:44:02 (ZULU)
John, you Texas guys have a good sense of humor. I like that! Kotex and dresses HA! Next you'll be telling me about that wonderful olive colored eye liner and lip stick for field use LOL.
Speaking of Texas guys, anyone hear from Two Shoes in a while? I miss that guy, he's one of the best.
And since I'm off on the best, how about putting in a personal appearance there Mr. Rogers! Yes, this place has changed it's face more than an elderly french whore, but we all know you're still drawn to it like the rest of us. If it helps, use more perfume and turn the lights out.
And since I'm going off on french whores, good to see you back again Brian LOL Things been hot down there?
Any word if Mike has made it back home yet? He's got me concerned too.
On ASC2, now the kittywhacker is going to carry his man portable arty. That's one I've got to see. Or maybe he's got some young stud puppy as a partner, and convinced him that everyone does it that way. And buys beer and cheeseburgers for the team every night as well.
Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 04:45:13 (ZULU)
I run into him occasionally on the Hide.
>>>>John, you Texas guys have a good sense of humor. I like that! Kotex and dresses HA! Next you'll be telling me about that wonderful olive colored eye liner and lip stick for field use LOL.<<<<<
Jaeger Dudeski you're really beginning to make me wonder ;))))
BTW, you Bum. I tried calling you this evening and you didn't have the desency to be home. M14 related of course.
>>>>>And since I'm off on the best, how about putting in a personal appearance there Mr. Rogers!<<<<<<
Bill's got a helluva project going. We may all have to be patient before we see the end results, but I'm going to say its going to be WELL worth the wait. How's that for throwing you a bone? ;))
>>>>>And since I'm going off on french whores, good to see you back again Brian LOL Things been hot down there?<<<<<
Brian's a real bum for going to the SHOT SHOW in Orlando, but I'm sure he's going to give a full report in the next couple of days. Wonder if he even went to the Show? I bet he spent all his time on the beaches. You know how the chicks dig him ;))
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 05:02:30 (ZULU)
"Your not a Sniper anymore, why don't you leave it behind?" Fair question the Queen asked. We were attempting to make the "tape" for the non believers. "What the hell are we doing here? I don't even see the front sight clear anymore!" was my reply. I put down the 1911 still unfired... Loaded it, the camera and Glocks back into the Jeep and said to hell with it. Somethings are best swept away with time. I guess, thats where I fit. Anyway still kicking barely but the flu almost got me, ya'll carry on. Interesting times are ahead.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 05:35:14 (ZULU)
I have always been a fairly good shot, just never shot for groups until a couple years ago. ALways just aimed at what I wanted to hit and shot it. Now that I have to think about it, it's getting harder.
Off to bed, all have a good day.
Bob
Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne, Ca, USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 09:09:24 (ZULU)
That's some decent shootin stock rifle. Mine always liked the 40's better than the 55's.
Does anybody know how to contact a unit or group of troops in service? Mailing address, etc. for care packages and mail. If anyone has a son or daughter or whatever overseas hit me offline. Thanx,
Yote bate
Welcome back sir. Good to hear from you again. I tried to quit smokin once.... worst 20 minutes of my life. Some things that aren't good for ya might be worth quittin-but this place is therapuetic. :))
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 10:53:11 (ZULU)
Is $1500.00 a good deal for a 40XB 300WM, late 60's NIB? Wood stock.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 11:12:56 (ZULU)
http://pvtpyle.com/
Interesting Camo site.
Steve from New Joisey
Steven Dzupin <sdzupin@optonline.net>
Wayne, New Joisey, US of A - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 14:08:36 (ZULU)
I read the SC review (good review) about the Tasco Super Sniper SS10x42M and have done a little research on the web and most of what I saw seemed positive. Do many of you have experience with this scope? I'd tend to trust your reviews a little more than some of the "testimonials" on Tasco's site (or site's that sell Tasco products). Is it reliable/accurate enough to allow me to effectively compete? I know that Tasco had some bankruptcy problems and the scopes are on backorder. I'm hoping I can get one prior to the ASC#2 match. Any other scopes I should consider in the $400 price range? I'm looking for a KISS mil-dot scope, paralax adjustment, easy/quick windage and elevation adjustment.
Once again thanks for your input,
Chris too
Chris Workman <cworkman@esiofva.com>
Va Beach, VA, - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 14:18:06 (ZULU)
Don't feel bad, I know exactly what your talking about. After I injured my goin muscle last year, an it took nealy 4 months to heal, I got the ultimatum from my wife. She said your 56yrs old, your not 18 anymore, and your time has come to quit trying to keep up with you son. I don't care if you want to go out and shoot but this B.S. of running all over hill and dale trying to keep up with kids a third of your age is going to stop!!!!
Its really hard when you sit down and really think about it an reality hits you in the face. You finally realize that you aren't ever going to get any better and you "ARE" on the down hill side.
You have to work you ass off just to keep from getting soft an turning into a couch patato. I am now faced with starting all over agian trying to get back into shape and realizing it will take me a long time to get back to even being close to where I was a year ago and thats not where I needed to be!!!
I guess the T-shirt she gave me has a lot of truth to it,"THE OLDER I GET, THE BETTER I WAS". But then I like the one I had better, "OLD AGE AND TRECHERY WILL OVERCOME SKILL AND YOUTH"!!! Hope to see you guys at the SC shoot cuss I start training again this month!!(HA)
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 14:52:01 (ZULU)
If you're 56, and still running over hill and dale and keeping up with guys 1/3 your age,, then you're not old. I'd lay cash money down you're in better shape than I, and I'm 29. Stick with it man!!
If you're 56, that would make the misses about 50-ish. Just remind her that she's got a better chance of being killed by terrorists than getting re-married after 40,, so drop the ultimatums and go do what ya like ;)
Now,, I know how that would go over in my house. (I'd wake up with a steak knife in my chest) but hey,, it "could " work right?? ;)))Of course,, getting my ass beat to the groud in front of others,, by your misses would also be a humbling expirence ;)) Best I shut up now.... (((;
All of our best shooters are all over 50 except one. I have a long way to go.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 15:07:25 (ZULU)
Son, may God have mercy on your immortal soul............you done it now!
That being said, you want one, I got one, it's 300 bucks shipped, already has the butt ugly green/tan camo paint job..........replaced it with a USO.
Mike in Texas <mcdonald@hcn.hcnews.com>
Granbury, Texas, - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 15:24:18 (ZULU)
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 15:33:23 (ZULU)
Thanks, that was my impression also. I know they do reticle work but I didn't think they did warranty work.
Chris..
She told me if I go back to Wyoming this year to the D&L shoot my "Stuff"(Not and exact quote) would be on the lawn when I got home(HA).
This is my second marriage and shes 10yrs younger, but sometimes she thinks shes my mother. She is sure I will die of a heart attack out there. I told her if I don't keep working out I will die of one sooner.
By the way I said "TRYING" to keep up with the young guns.(HA)
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 15:38:39 (ZULU)
There, that aught to catch everyone's eye reading the archives. Attention all newbies.... there is no compromise on scopes... cheap ones suck...save up and buy a quality scope, and yes, they are expensive.
Bill. When you quit trying to keep up with the young guys, you will die. Much better to have a heart attack at the D&L then pass spitting up pink frothy crap on your couch. Stay in the game, stay young. Retire and sit on your rump and you will be dead soon enough. Seen it tens of thousands of times...as far as I'm concerned, it is fact.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 15:50:52 (ZULU)
Wern't me with the LC load data, wish it had been. When you heading North?
Stay safe
Don
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, US of A - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 17:06:40 (ZULU)
Forty eight years of that kind of life style can take a toll on a guy and last summer the butcher’s bill came due. Some of you might remember.
At first I figured I would just press on and ignore the pain. That was S.O.P. for me. It had to be a combination of jet lag and weird food. It was just gas. I’d be ok if I just took a couple of hours to catch my breath. After all I was operating on an average of 6 hours sleep a night and hadn’t taken a break for almost a month in country. I was just tired.
After a while I thought to myself, “This pain is killing me.” (I found out later it was killing me.) So I got on the elevator at my hotel and went down to get some aspirin. That’s when I saw myself in the mirror. What I saw didn’t look good at all so I decided to toss in the towel. I got my 23 year old interpreter named Jade and we went to the hospital. (No, she was not the cause.)
Sure enough, I was having a heart attack and I’d fought it so long that some irreparable damage had been done to my heart muscle. A few weeks later I got home to the good old US of A and had two stints installed in my heart and today I feel 100%. The truth is, I’ll never be 100% again and that’s tough to take. Sometimes you just have to play the hand you get dealt. I’m working out and doing my best to get and stay in shape but I realize I’ll never be what I once was but I’m here and that counts.
I spent about 20 minutes in the hospital that first night feeling pretty sorry for myself. There I was full of tubes and wires, in no small amount of pain, 10,000 miles from home and a beautiful Chinese girl in the other bed watching my every move. (Jade would not leave my side for three days.) I sure didn’t feel very manly right about then but I figured feeling sorry for my self didn’t contribute to the situation so I started planning.
The plan went something like this:
Step 1 – Get Better
Step 2 – Get Home
Step 3 – Get Over It
Step 4 – Get On with It
I’m well into step 4 now and am pretty happy to be here. I may not be able to pass the APFT right now but I’m in formation saying, “Here First Sergeant!”
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 18:15:27 (ZULU)
Tasco SS - like medic jim said! I bought one a few years ago. That was when they were gettihg good press. Any of you guys correct me if I'm mistaken about the following:
It was rumored that Leupold was interested in getting out of the Military/LE market at the time. Tasco saw potential for a new market and had the SS designed and built (by somebody - they don't build - they market) to present to the Military for evaluation. It was a quality scope given the cost limitations, and this first run was the one that everyone in the private sector evaluated and gave good reviews to.
Leupold stayed in the game however, and the Ultra's became MK4's, became available on a large scale to the public, and won the Military contract. Tasco started selling the SS on the civilian market partly to recoup the money spent developing it for the Military competition, and sales took off - 1/3 the price of the MK4 or the B&L TAC 10 - why not?
Tasco had to cheapen the SS to keep up with rising costs, and that's where it hit the fan. The one that I bought came apart internally after 200rds. through my M21! Many others have similar storys. I sold mine after it came back from Tasco in FL. I wonder if there's any warranty repair station for Tasco after the bankruptcy? Even if another company bought their name, remember what happened to Redfield and Weaver!
IMHO a caveat should be added to any reviews of this scope that were written and printed about the first generation examples. The second generation SS scopes are a disappointment. Buy only quality optics. I'm constantly amazed when I see $1000+ rifles leaving the gunshop sporting $99 scopes with $15 mounts!
'yote bait,
I kind of figured that you'd post when and if you were ready. Glad to see a word or two from ya! Stick around, it's not the same without you. Take care of yourself.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 18:32:33 (ZULU)
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/01/16/sproject.irq.wrap/index.html
Steve~hockeyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
- Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 19:01:48 (ZULU)
Bob H
Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne, Ca, USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 19:12:08 (ZULU)
I got the long term damage too. But you got more will than me I think. 6 Weeks after my first one I helped drag a 300lb mulie about 300 yards and was stalking Antelope in 104 temp. One day the demands just caught up with me. They hadn't had the right repairs the first time and I was back for the steel plumbing in 6 weeks. I could have gone inside at work but I went back to the line. Different attitude as to what I'd do and what I wouldn't. I quit the high towers cause nobody wanted to haul me down. Getting back is the hard part. They give you all these drugs to slow down your heart rate and keep you down and then say get out there and go like always. Like having lead in your boots.
Thanks to all you Medic's! We've got many good ones here. Your advice is always appreciated more than you'd believe. Especially you Jim. Been trying to wind down some but I'd never go the rockin chair route cause I've seen what you preach with friends of mine. The Queen kind of got my attention cause that's the first she ever tried to slow me down or get to realize my mortality. It's just the extreme heat and cold that's the worst now. Had a heat stroke last year and it's been worse than the Coronary problems. My air conditioning just don't work anymore. Just a little hard to get used too.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 19:43:19 (ZULU)
danny mull <drm
