Sniper Country Duty Roster

March 01, 2000 - March 11, 2000


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Hi all,

With the detail Dave Croyle sent me (JT, his included later stuff, so I just used that - but thanks for yours as well) I have now rebuilt most of the Roster.  From all these XXX's above to the next such in Ken's message is the missing detail - the rest will go to the archives.  Other doing some extended cutting and pasting (the detail I got was in the Reverse order) and placing the lines between each post I did no other editing as you people will see.  Hopefully I did not lose anything in bringing it across.

If anybody has any of the detail still missing (fortunately doesn't seem too much) please email it to me.  Same applies if anybody notices that I lost something in switching it around again.

Hope that, between Ken and myself we can get another procedure in place that will minimise the loss should this happen again.  Ken has already been doing a lot on his side.

Marius Ferreira
Webmaster
March 04, 2000


Keith and Lito' Could that be some of that stuff Billy had deactivated and
someone has rebuilt it?
Probably just didn't get it reseated right. There was some 30-06 going
around with LC match
brass that manuf had deactived (unloaded) and then reloaded again with the
same components
to satisfy Bill's leftist political agenda.

Bill; in Clearwater. There is no excuse for luck. There are probably
officers at the bottom of the
swamp down there that might not have been so lucky. Maybe an Elvis Suit
would be more
appropriate in a City enviorment than a Ghilly suit but I figure them
dopers are gonna catch on
right away if they see you in them blues. They can get lucky too. I'm sure
you know you area
and business quite well. In that particular trade there are those who do
take a dim view of
things like being overheard.
I'm sure you have plenty back up. A Ghilly suit is real noticable on at a
bus stop anyway and you
can't get a date in one to save your life.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 01:13:43 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)


sorry to strart the DMR thread again.I have an exceptionaly accurate M1A,
.75 min. consistant.I
would love to give it the DMR treatment,don't want to wait forever on a
stock,anyone know
where I can find one.Possibly a correct scope mount.And is it true the
Marines are welding the
scope mount on?Not to keen on welding on my SA reciever.
Thanks in advance.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony W. <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 01:53:38 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.26.5.8)

I am in Northern California and looking for a place to learn to shoot my
AR-15 well. I was Navy
for 8 years and most of us never train with weapons. We pick them up every
six months, sit
through a 10 minute safety brief, and then get shooting tips for another 10
 until we can pass
the qual again. Minimum rounds expended.

Does anyone know a good school/training center in Nor Cal or at least a
great shooting coach
who can work me into his schedule. Same for my pistol, but my rifle
shooting is worse. 18"
groups at 100 yards and I seem to be wasting more ammo. Yes I read, but am
still not catching
on.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions,

-Steve
Davis <slhoenig@yahoo.com>
Sacramento, CA, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 04:46:43 (ZULU) (your
host address: 169.237.14.94)


Questions about a Bushnell Sentry II.

I found a scope and stand this week end and was actuals surprised by the
performance of the
32X50 scoope. The field of view at 200 is very small and I was wondering if
 a change of eye
peice to a lower power would be better? I can read large signs at two miles
 and more but back
where I will be useing it for CMP it's tight. And who would have shuch
items. I'm going to start
with some camara shops that deal in bird watching equipment but any other
advice is welcome.
It came on a Freeland stand and being way impressed by the high end
equipment used by some
shooters I was sure I would never be able to afford the entry fee and food
too. But this has
change every thing and I think I saved a ton of $ also.

This scope is a lot better than any of the newer Bushnell stuff I looked at
 the rest of the show,
also most of the stuff at $300 + was actualy no better butt for a little
more field of view. What
would be some history on this unit? Why is the calarity so much better.

It looks old and seasoned but for under a $100 I could not pass this set
up. The stand cleaned
up well but it could be improved with a few new parts, any tips here would
be great. Your
$1000 Kowa it's not but hey if it pulls me another 25 points in each of the
 slow positions I will
by the happy camper.

Thanks to all, Scott and Pablito as always, thanks for the tips.

MJ
MJ <montereyjack@kmenterprises.com>
Monterey Bay, The Left Coastto To, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at
04:54:59 (ZULU) (your host address:
165.236.189.200)


Urban Camoflauge -

I would think that you want to be able to blend in with the surroundings.
For open land you
want to look like a bush, a patch of grass, or something immobile, so a
ghillie that looks like
Chewbacca is in order. For a field of corn stubble, it may actually look
like a blond Chewbacca.

(Hold on. I'm going somewhere with this.)

For the urban environment, I would think you also want something
inconspicuous. While bushes
might seem a good idea, most city bushes are scraggly and you will have a
certain attraction to
large dogs who want to "water the daisies". The latter is a definite
disadvantage. A pile of
bricks or concrete rubble might be the thing, but tying 100+ bricks onto
your suit can make it
heavy and they will rattle when you move.

I think the way to go would something mobile, like a wino, a druggie, or a
small van (for those
of us who eat too much pizza). See Tom Clancy's "Without Remorse" for what
I am thinking of.
I know the action isn't very accurate, but it makes an enjoyable read
anyway.

As far as the type of woman attracted by wearing a ghillie, they are
probably the type with hair
on their backs. Is that the attraction to the sheepies that seems to pop up
 here from time to
time?

Ciao
Karl
Karl <dahm0030@tc.umn.edu>
Damn Cold, Mn, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 15:58:18 (ZULU) (your
host address: 134.84.148.151)


I'd like to buy a spotting scope like the M49 that was used in the late
60's. Please email me if
you know the manufacturer and commercial model number. Thanks.
sven <svenska50@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 18:52:03 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.174.99.183)

ANY BODY OUTTHERE WHO CAN MAHE A GOOD DESERT GHILLIE?
BOBBY HALLOWAY <BOBBYHALLO@YAHOO.COM>
SYRACUSE , NEW YORK, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 18:47:48 (ZULU)
(your host address:
198.36.25.180)

This goes into the "Ripleys Believe it or Not Firearms Control" category:
I'm just filling out my "Application for License for Acquisition/Possesion"
 (replaces the FAC) and
came to this part:

Section B-During the past two years have you experienced a:
1) divorce, separation, or breakdown of a significant relationship?
2) major failure in school, loss of job, or bankruptcy?
If Yes, provide details.

You also have to have the application signed by:
per schedule 1-Your current spouse/common law partner with whom you are
living

and/or

per schedule 2-any spouse or person of the same or opposite sex with whom
you have lived in a
conjugal relationship for three months or more during the two years prior
to this application
stating: "I am aware of the applicant's request for a license to aquire a
firearm or cross-bow. I
know that I may raise any saftey concerns that I have about it by
contacting the Chief Firearms
Officer at 1-800-731-4000"

All this, and more, so I can keep my Rem700

TonyM <bcoyrecce@hotmail.com>
BC, Canada - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 19:00:11 (ZULU) (your host
address: 207.102.80.125)


Gentlem: Thank you for presenting the sniper history and such a
professional site. Many surly
will not understand the material available here; those who would condem it
are lacking in
education; those who would misuse the information found here are
un-American.

I came across this site while searching long range shooting and was very
please to find the
"Long White Feather" history here.

Rest Well,

Reginald
Reginald <ratkins@trib.com>
Casper, WY, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 19:06:54 (ZULU) (your host
address: 12.10.158.99)


Remington Model 700 VS-VS/LH (Heavy Barrel, Varmint Synthetic)

For all interested parties. As of noon today, Remington's consumer rep
assured me the Varmint
Synthetic, available in both left and right hand, 700 short actions, has
currently completed its
January/February production run and is presently being shipped to dealers
nationwide.
Furthermore, there are no plans to discontinue this model, contrary to
rumors which have
circulated conflicting information.

Benoist, Keith <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 19:42:46 (ZULU) (your
 host address:
207.174.108.120)


I finally broke down and bought a stoney point OAL and comparator.
Interesting to note that I
measured out 2.910 OAL to the lands using a 168gr A-Max. I guess Remington
plays it safe.
Anyway, I loaded up a batch of 168 a-max seated to my lands ogive
measurement minus .030.
The charge was 43.5 gr Varget and group size was .7. Velocity was 2671 Avg.
 I'm
experimenting with the A-Max. I usually shoot .5 - .6 with my 168gr MK
load. Anyone else try
the A-Max?
Breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 20:30:35 (ZULU) (your host address:
12.3.204.222)

Mark: I would think a traditional G suit would stick out like a sore thumb
in most cities. Is this a
city like NY, with very little vegetation? If so, things like rags and
trash bags would be less likely
to attract attention.
Karl: Bums are often robbed. Such a disguise seems ideal, but it would
present serious risk,
even more so if Mark were lying down--appearing to be passed out.
George <none@nospam.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 22:34:57 (ZULU) (your host address:
192.216.6.51)

Breakpoint, the A-max is a well balance nice shooting bullet however it has
 it's problems. The
early issue ones were a bit too ambitious in the long pointed snout. By the
 time the bullet
contacts the rifling it's off toward Jones in a lot of rifles. If you seat
it out it won't go in the
short magazine of the short action guns. Later on without much fanfare they
 changed the nose
and rounded the point so that it shoots much easier and more accurate.
I suspect the ballastics were altered also but haven't looked to see if
they have changed them in
their literature. A-max bullets are a bit thin skinned for large game but
work pretty well up to
deer size.
As a sniper round they are hard to beat if stopping the target is the
objective. A bit less
accurate than Sierra Match Kings but devistatinng in the meat department.
IF you have a long
action winchester or Savage or other good gun the old bullets would do fine
 but I don't think
they are on the market anymore.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 22:50:25 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)

Does anyone know where i can get a good deal on the Federal Match 175gr
ammo in .308?
I am currently paying about $1 a round and it is getting old, and fast.
I am open to people with ffl's willing to make deals, dealers, or mail
order/ internet sources.
Please help!

Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
san jo, rainafornia, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 23:58:03 (ZULU)
(your host address:
209.247.149.130)


Jeff, if you're getting your ammo from a local shop then try 1) other local
 shops, and challenge
them to beat the price you're getting now, 2) ammoman.com (78 cents/rd plus
 shipping, case
price) or other online dealers, and 3) Hoplite (as listed recently as a
source for the 168gr
Federal match ammo.) If switching brands is an option, the Black Hills
175gr match load (moly)
can be had locally for about 85 cents/rd. (case price including tax) or you
 can order the
non-moly for about 73 cents/rd through IBA (case price, but you'd also pay
shipping.)

Often you can get a better price by volume, which can be done by teaming up
 with other folks
who each want a case or more of the same fodder.

A few weeks ago when I was at the gun show atthe Fairgrounds, the dealer
there had the
Federal 175 match for something like $21/20. Ouch! Not a good deal.

Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
No rain today in San Jose, eh?, CA, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at
00:34:29 (ZULU) (your host address:
32.97.110.67)


Thanks Dave,
yeah, i almost called in 'sick' today so i could go play outside.
I will give ammoman a try, it sounds like a good deal but i will definately
 keep my eyes open.
Plus, if i buy out of state i dont get to pay tax!
If anyone in the San Jose area plans on buying some of the Federal match
.308 in 175 let me
know cause it would be interesting to see what deal we could get.
Later.
Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
San jo, sunnyfornia, today anyway, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at
01:03:02 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.247.149.130)

Breakpoint: if that's the only load you've tried with the A-MAX's so far,
I'd have to say that
you're on the right track here. Fine tune your charge weights and seating
depth a little and you
may improve enough on the load to match the performance of the MK's .

Each gun is different and your gun may or may, or, may not, exceed the
performance of the
Sierra bullet. Only time and a little experimenting will tell for sure.

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 01:11:05 (ZULU) (your
host address: 142.177.88.126)


Federal Ammo
For decent to good pricing on a variety of ammo youmight try Eric over at:
http://www.ammoman.com/
I have found his prices to be less then I can find locally here, plus he
has a section online of
odd lots. You can often pick up tracers or blanks at a greatprice.

The price you see is the price you pay. No $10 shipping plus $13 HAZMAT
fees or anything like
that. I have used him several times for cases of ammo and service has been
fine (no problems
or surprises).

You just have to mail, fax, or e-mail a copy of your ID to them first.
Orders are filled within 24
hours most of the time.

500 rounds of Gold Medal Match BTHP, 175Gr is $389. No tax, no shipping.
-Steve
-Steve <slhoenig@ucdavis.edu>
CA, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 03:25:00 (ZULU) (your host address:
169.237.13.103)


Are most of you gents still single staging your ammo? I've been
experimenting with my Dillon
RL-550 (loading 175 Sierra's with Accurate 2015, a short cut extruded
propellant) and I can't
see any difference in group size (average .5 to .7 at 100 meters)in my .308
 M700 Police
compared to the same ammo loaded single stage on my RockChucker. Time spent
 at the loading
bench is cut down considerably. I'm convinced. So Long RCBS.
dan <danr@acnet.net>
Deep South, Texas, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 04:33:27 (ZULU) (your
host address: 170.76.42.93)

dan:

What accuracy does the Dillon give for powder loading? I've hear, including
 Dillon's own
advertising of their match team, that match grade rounds can be had, but
powder loading +/- .5
grains seems like a rough, not match, load.

I load 300 win mag with the RCBS digital setup and love it, plus it
provides complete accuracy.
(complete meaning as good as I can shoot it, sub MOA)

A good autoloader would make things sweet, but I doubt the accuracy of a
progressive press.

All:
Can anyone recommend a good barrel wizard that can make a decent Reminton
700 Sendero
barrel for 300 win mag? Plenty out there, but who has fast turn-around
times, match accuracy,
and a fair price?

Thanx.

Shootin' through the thin air!

Hank <ninesoft2@earthlin.net>
Denver, CO, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 05:23:32 (ZULU) (your host
address: 38.27.84.227)


Amen !! Let's hear it for Dillon !! Have been loading 155 Amax's, 173
mil-match, and 175 Sierra
MKs for over 3 years on it with same or better results as Dan in TX . Of
course I am still using
the "evil" moly(won't EVEN start that again!! Moly DOES WORK !!) but with
Forster dies haven't
seen any degradation of accuracy (1/2 MOA at 200 yds, thats in 3 different
rifles) and my
loading time has been cut by 2/3's....at least. It does help to use Norma
or Lapua or IMI brass.
Federal brass just doesn't last. I do spend some time culling some of the
173's but overall the
Dillon (550B) has worked well. I like Varget but it doesn't meter as well
as BLC-2.

On another note, a few weeks back, Torsten mentioned a device he makes...
"recoil guide" for
pistols. Gotta admit it works well, even in my "Old Sig 220", thanks T !!!!
 Now if I could get
some work done on the "jerk" behind the trigger I might get some decent
groups at 1,000...then
again...if you can't practice that far out, you can't get better !! With
that said, any way to
practice at 500 for 1,000 ?
OUT HERE
Will <rogue308@mindspring.com>
Deep, South, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 05:41:17 (ZULU) (your host
address: 199.174.128.238)


Anyone know anything about BSA rifle scopes? I read something about them
awhile ago and
they sound decent even though they are cheap. And they have to be better
than tasco even
though they are slowly getting better.

And anyonehave any ideas on taking a 270 win andmoving the shoulder foward
so that there is
a neck length of .270" and a 40 degree shoulder.
Jed <clampet@writeme.com>
blain, pa, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 08:45:35 (ZULU) (your host
address: 192.156.68.35)


nice site, i have som fotos for you write me you wont be sory

sealsniper51@hotmail.com
Nick "sealsniper" kirkegaard <sealsniper51@hotmail.com>
cophagen, cophagen, Denmark - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 11:09:36 (ZULU)
(your host address:
195.181.216.180)


Hank-I've been loading match .223 on a Dillon for a year now, and the
Dillon powder measure is
just as consistant as either my RCBS or my Redding "Benchrest" measures.
I've a second Dillon
measure on the .45 conversion and it, too, stays within +or- .2 grain.
Fifteen years of
reloading, and my Rockchucker is now reserved for the calibers for which I
don't have Dillon
conversions. My .2 of a grain worth.
Celt <dand@foggfiller.com>
USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 12:26:54 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.163.7.233)

I have a 550 Dillon and load all my 223 stuff on it with excellent
results!! I tried the 308s but I
was getting to much bullet and neck run out so I quit using it for the
308s. I tried Dillon dies
and the Redding BR dies but it stayed the same. I read where the Palma team
 loads all their
ammo on the 550s so I know they work. I used Varget powder and it didn't
seem to meter to
bad I may have to try it again.

Has any one tried the new Lica 800s yet??
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 14:53:56 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.130)


I just called SWFA and they are expecting the Leica 800 rangefinder within
the next 2-3 weeks.
I have heard that before, but I hope it is reality this time. I ordered
mine back in early
December.

Michael
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
San Jose, CA, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 15:31:12 (ZULU) (your host
address: 63.192.208.6)


A PISTOL ISSUE

FYI everyone. Yesterday I attempted to ship two pistols VIA FEDEX. The
reason? UPS now has a
$30 surcharge, PER FIREARM, added to their already inflated shipping costs.
 In my case, this
would have come to about $75, if not more, to ship two firearms
cross-country to my brother.
Looking for an alternative, I called FEDEX to see if they shipped same.
Yes, I was told. Any
special conditions I have to meet, I asked. Same as anyone else, they said.
 FFLs on both ends,
ship to dealers only. Fine. I did all the legwork, had an FFL sent to a
dealer here, paid the
transfer fee ($10), then took the two pistols to FEDEX. Once there, as
always, the rules
changed. FEDEX essentially refused to ship two pistols, "Unless they can be
 disabled prior to
shipping." (This is a FEDEX policy, which, by the way, they do not bother
to notify you of if you
call the FEDEX 800 customer service number). Inquiries into the nature of
the definition of
"disabled", at the FEDEX counter varied. Finally a phone call was made to
an upper level
manager, whose opinion was that, "some part of the pistol has to be
removed, and shipped
separately." The wolf is at the door, people.
Be forewarned, brothers and sisters. I am struck by the irony of a
government which trains its
young men, and these days women, in the skills of marksmenship, yet
considers the previous
generation of those who have been similarly trained to be de facto enemies
of the state, simply
because they choose to pursue a love for something which that same
government inspired.
Benoist, Keith E. <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 16:09:01 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.174.108.14)


The A-Max's I have are recently purchased from Midway. They are the pointed
 - not the
rounded ones, and will no way ever fit in my DM magazine. If I seated these
 to SAAMI or mag
length, it would place the ogive too far away. That's OK though as my
intention was to load
singly, experiment and see if they would fly better than the MK. My real
issue is with Remington
and the 700P throat. Anyway, so far the MK is winning out but I just
started. Besides, I'm having
too much fun to give up!
breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 16:18:22 (ZULU) (your host address:
12.3.204.222)

Have any depts started using the Hornady A-max instead of the standard 168
hpbt. I saw the
work up Hornady did on these and seems you don't have to worry about over
penetration as
much.
Mike <Mikeroyexc@aol.com>
Florence, Mt, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 16:45:33 (ZULU) (your host
address: 205.188.193.156)

I have just bought a SR25 Match and I am planning on putting a Nightforce
scope on it. Here is
the qustion, were can I get proper instruction on hitting the broad side of
 a barn? Okay, what I
really am after is a shooting school that will train me in the basics of
getting the most out of
the Stoner. I am not a "sniper" or a LE type.

I am just a regular guy that likes to shot at far away objects. I live in
Pennsylvania and would
be willing to travel for the right program. If there is a perfect school it
 should teach me to
shoot and not treat me like a five year old with a expensive toy. I think
you guy's (gals) know
what I am refering to.

Thanks for your help,
Gregory Fields
Gregory Fields <greg.fields@mrigroup.com>
Lancaster, PA, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 16:59:46 (ZULU) (your host
 address: 208.170.180.90)


Gregory, to hit the side of a barn, every time, GO INSIDE THE BARN, then
shoot. There ya go,
problem solved. Sorry, couldn't resist. Sounds like a nice set-up. Front
sight, squeeze the
trigger. Repeat.

Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
Portland, Or, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 17:19:12 (ZULU) (your host
address: 209.156.133.2)


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

ALL - HAD A MAJOR POWER OUTAGE HERE IN INDEPENDENT HILL. MACHINES
DIED WHEN THE UNINTERRUPTABLE POWER SUPPLIES GAVE UP THEIR LIFE AFTER
ABOUT 1.5 HOURS. ANYHOW THE DATA DISK IN THE WEB SERVER GOT HIT....
AFTER MUCH THINKING, PRAYING, RECOVERY DISKS, ETC. HERE'S WHATS RUNNING.... COULD HAVE BEEN ALOT WORSE I GUESS..

SOME OF THE LAST POSTS IN THE ROSTER WERE LOST.... SORRY ABOUT THAT...

MARIUS - LEAVE THIS ENTRY IN THE ROSTER AS A MARKER......... SO WE CAN SLOWLY RESONSTRUCT IT...

KEN :(
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 02:22:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Sorry about the Roster folks but Ken did a HELL of a job getting even this much back!!! Hopefully Marius has more of the Roster saved and we can rebuild from there!

Sarge for the Sniper Country Staff
 

Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 03:13:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.245.243.106)

Gentlemen ( I use that term very loosely),

Someone explain how you use the Metric cam on an 3.5x10 M3 at ranges measured in yards. The windage 1/2 min. adjustments are giving me fits also, since I am so used to 1/4 min. clicks, but I can handle it. All I can figure to do is just subtract elevation clicks from the cam setting. Is it just a shoot and see thing? Here's a for instance, while shooting at 700 yds., I have to be three clicks below the 700 mark on the M3. Any hints? Anyone? Anyone?

thanks,

John R.
John R. <jrr051468@aol.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 03:49:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.23)

Scopes:

I have a question re: scopes and rings for the Savage 10FP I'm buying. I'm planning on shooting it at ranges under 600yds. at highpower matches and silhouette comps. My local range requires a scope to be set at 6 power for silhouette. I would like any advice on the best scope for the money. I have about $350 to spend. I'd like to know if a fixed power 6X would be OK for ranges to 600yds. or if a variable power is the way to go?

thanks
paul
Paul <mb_joe@yahoo.com>
woodside, ca, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 04:12:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.23.7.57)

SC Staff.. you should contact anyone who hasnt loaded the page yet, so they can retrieve the roster from their cache.
George <none@nospam.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 04:37:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.216.240.22)
John R. Sounds like that scope is screwed up. I'll take it off your hands for 50 bucks.

Just kidding..

Think about it..700 yards = 630 meters give or take a few meters. (Everyone whistle the theme song from jeapardy while John thinks about this.)

Out
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 05:18:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.171)

Anybody that has got any of the details that we've lost please email it to me in order for me to get it back in here, or at least the archives.

More from me later.

Marius
Webmaster
Marius Ferreira <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
RSA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 07:41:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 196.25.27.66)

Whoa! Fastest loading roster ever!

I am looking for some good reading on sniper team tactics & communication, on the internet or in print. Anything related to hand signals, map symbols, SOP's for covering the AO while one member rests, non-verbal communication while on final stalk, etc. If you could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. I have thoroughly read and re-read Plaster's Ultimate Sniper, and have learned much, but am looking for even more. Especially from all of the military men and women out there, as it seems that you would have the most experience with this (as opposed to the average long-range target shooter). Also, how important are these kind of things in competition, say, SMTC events? I read the accounts in the archives and they mostly talk about the events and the shooting aspect, but not the team aspect...any insight would be appreciated!
 

Thanks,
Brian

Brian Snider <bolt_308@yahoo.com>
OR, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 10:07:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.36.35.97)

Ken & Marius,

I note that you guys had a little problem tonight.

Luckily I had surfed SC on another browser before I started this one.

Check your emails. By going offline and forcing a non-connect refresh - I was able to retrieve all text for the current roster page back to somewhere around 13:00 yesterday afternoon. After that fraid I cant help ya.

I know how power failures and disk crashes can be. :-(

Hope this helps,
JT - Webmaster for Norcal Precision & Tactical Intervention <tenarius@memorableplaces.com>
CCCPalifornia, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 10:38:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.156.137.61)

JT: thanks for the info and cuts of the roster. If you could pull up that cached copy again - and view the source - cut that and mail it - would be alot quicker to restore the roster from pieces.

Hey - normally power outages aren't a problem. We have about 1.5 hours of unattended reserve power. After that, if someone is on site - the generator will carry us until Saudi Arabia freezes over.

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 12:29:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Buying a Stoner SR25, I am planning on putting a Nightforce NSX series scope on it. Now the question, where is a proper training facility to learn how to make the long shot? I would like to find a school close by, but i will travel a bit if needed.
The school should treat me like an adult and not like a child with a high priced toy. I think you guys(gals) know what I mean. I am not a "sniper" wannabee nor am I a L.E.O. Any help you all can provide is welcome. Thanks, Gregory Fields

Gregory Fields <greg.fields@mrigroup.com>
Lancaster, PA, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 13:45:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.170.180.100)

Does Remington still make the M700vs in 20inch short barrel? I know that they came back out with the M700vs in the 26inch barrel.
Ross <pwc464@aol.com>
Warrenton , Va, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:06:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.27)
I guess this got lost in the mess. We were talking A-Max bullets. I was wondering in any of the LE agencies are going to the 168s A-Max loaded stuff that Hornady puts out. It looks like it would solve the over penetration of the 168 HPBT.
Mike <Mikeroyexc@aol.com>
Florence , Mt, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:26:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.212)
I guess this got lost in the mess. We were talking A-Max bullets. I was wondering in any of the LE agencies are going to the 168s A-Max loaded stuff that Hornady puts out. It looks like it would solve the over penetration of the 168 HPBT.
Mike <Mikeroyexc@aol.com>
Florence , Mt, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:26:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.212)
Sorry........... don't know what happened I only clicked once.
Mike <Mikeroyexc@aol.com>
Florence, Mt, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:29:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.212)
Hey Guys,

Sorry to drag this down to politics again. I have never posted here before, but have kept up with the site for a long time. I decided to post this because I needed to vent and I think most of the people here share the same views that I have.

Did anyone catch the debate on CNN last night between the 3 GOP candidates? Talk about disgusting! Alan Keyes stood proud even in the face of ridiculous and irrelevant questioning by the panel. One of the members even tried to drag him down into a racial debate by asking him what he thought the four cops that were acquitted for killing that African man in NYC. Ambassador Keyes would not stoop to their level, however and simply said that he was not qualified to answer - that unless someone was present in the court room for the entire trial and had all of the facts of the case it was not their business to question the decision of the jury. The panelist then pushed harder, hoping to get SOME reaction out of Keyes by saying that at least 19 hits was excessive. The Ambasador simply said that the number was irrelevant, and again he was not there. He went on to say that our LE officers are out there doing a very difficult job, and we should stand by them. They should get the same fair treatment that any of the rest of America would expect!! I just cannot say enought about Alan Keyes and how impressed I was with his character. When he had something to say about one of the other candidates - he looked them directly in the eye and said it. He made mention of the obvious, disgusting, and unamerican (my words) media blackout on his campaign but did not seem bitter about it. One panelist even said (and I don't remember the exact wording) "Given the fact that you are probably not going to win, which of these other two candidates would you endorse?" What the hell is that? Keyes took it in stride. They asked him almost no relevant questions about campaign issues - it was almost like he is not even running. It was sickening.

George Bush Jr. meanwhile endorsed the development of so called "smart gun" technology and said he hopes that we are headed that direction. I guess that makes one of us. He also apologized for giving a speech at Bob Jones University and said that he regreted that he did not speak out against the "anti-catholic" view there. Come on. I can tell you that Bob Jones U is no more anti-catholic than a Republican is "anti-democrat". They may have different beliefs and convictions, may not agree with what each other say, and they may express those disagreements publicly but that does not make them "anti" anything! They are not out there killing catholics in an effort to wipe them all off of the face of the earth. I am very dissapointed in Gov. Bush for not having the balls to simply stand up and say "Look, I don't agree with all of the views expressed at Bob Jones. However, I am proud that my campaign stopped there. I'm proud that I had the opportunity to give that speech." Show some backbone Governor. Stand up for your rights.

The good Senator did not even have the courtesy to show up in person for this debate. He was present on a big screen TV via sattelite. He spoke poorly, stumbled over his own words, and when he did manage to put together a cohesive sentence it was nothing but pure indirect issue dodging self promoting Clintonese. Pathetic. By the way Senator, who the hell are you to tell me as a taxpayer that I cannot spend as much of my hard earned after tax money as I damn well please promoting the candidate of my conviction? Limits on contributions from individuals? This was still the home of the free last time I checked - but the folks in Washington are working on that aren't they. I don't see anyone trying to limit how much I can contribute to any other cause!!

Again, I apologize for the length and for going back to politics. Like I said though, I had to vent somewhere. This a great site and I have learned a lot here. Keep up the good work guys.
JHall <jhall@family-net.net>
Decatur, IL, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:53:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.0.57.16)

Does anyone have any experience with the new winchester mod 70 "stealth" rifles? Any help, stories, good or bad are greatly apreciated. Thanks, happy shooting.
Mike <mmbackpacker@aol.com>
yuma, az, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 16:05:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.195.192)
Gooch,

Can you chew bubble gum too? Just kiddin'. Seriously though, I've always been issued standard duplex tactical on my dept. rifles. I've had a rifle built and thanks to advice from Jerry Rice, it now shoots great (yesterday, here in South MS, 2.5" at 600 with GM). I recently put a 3.5x10 M3 Mil-Dot on it and the different adj. are taking some getting used to. I have no problem ranging using the mil-dot system, it was just that I figured that the meters setting would be closer to the yard range than it was. I had to move back to 750 to get on paper with one ck under the 700M setting, shooting high. Lot to learn, shall keep you updated...
 

Mike,

What over penetration problems? Surely you don't mean with the Sierra HPBT 168 GM load. Unless there is a wide periphrial (sp?) hit, over penetration is a problem I haven't seen or heard anyone complain about. The complaints are deflection that occurs when shooting through barriers such as glass or thin cover. I haven't found the A-Max to be as accurate as Sierras in any case. Could be just me though...

Anyone have a VA Beach Police Sniper patch they would part with? After Gunny's school down here in Waynesboro MS last year, they weren't available.

Good Hunting,

John R.
John R. <jrr051468@aol.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 16:57:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.174)

John R. Just rememeber that a fast way to convert meters to yards is to add 10% to the meter distance. 100 meters = 110 yards, 500 meters = 550 yards etc.

Gooch
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 17:09:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.168)

Gunny Carlos Hathcock

Just curious. Is anyone aware if there are any translated, published accounts of NVA or VC counter sniper teams who operated against Hathcock? I know there were such teams, but I'm wondering if any of the former authored their own accounts, and if so, are they available? It would be interesting, I should think, to learn what the former enemy thought of the man who was digging so many of them.

Thanks

KB

Benoist, Keith E. <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 17:26:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.45.211.163)

Well i got my tasco 10x42ss and got it mounted and zeroed for 100, but now i need some help.
I read the 'instructions' (if you could call them that) and have some questions about adjusting the eyepiece.
I am sitting here at work and do not have the manual, and i do not know the correct terms for stuff, so please excuse my ignorance.
I adjusted the rearmost adjuster on the eyepiece to get the mil dots in focus and noticed there is a large amount of adjustment where the mil dots seem to be perfectly focused. The manual says to adjust it all the way clockwise, then start backing it off until the dots come into focus, dont turn it any further. This is the proper adjustment, according to the scrap of paper.
The scope also has another adjustment a little forward of this and it is marked 10,25,50,100,and so on to 500, then it has a little infinity symbol. This seems pretty straight forward, if i am shooting at 500m i adjust the ring to 500.
However, when i was peering down range and would move my head, the cross hairs would move on the target. I was looking about 300m down range and i could get the reticle to move about a foot!
Have i adjusted the scope wrong? Am i a grommet? Is the front deflector shield not fully charged with ion particles?
where was i?........ oh yeah.
This seems like a huge margin of error if i cannot get my eyeball in exactly the same spot from shot to shot. Any assistance would be helpfull, and if anyone knows where i could get a detailed description and explanation of these adjustments i would be most gratefull.
Ps, if anyone will be at the sac match on sunday i will be there early to see if i can syphen some knowledge on this subject.
Thanks!

Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
San Jo, nice and sunny so farifornia, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 17:52:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.247.149.130)

*** NOTICE ***

It seems as if we've got basically everything back. The latest post I've got now is that for "Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 17:19:12", going right back to the beginning.

So please, those who still come up with something, if it is not later than this, don't send - we've got it. Thanks for the help - now I just need some time to actually get that into the format to post again. It is in the Reverse Roster format, so I'll have to do a bit of cutting and pasting to get it back in the normal format as well. If not tonight, most definately tomorrow night (my time)

On a more personal note, I am personally also only recovering now from losing my main 20G hard drive just over two weeks ago. Still finding small things here and there that need to be installed, tweaked, changed etc. Just some things from work and then I'll be going strong again - and hopefully the site as well, which have been too negledted lately.

More about that later.

Marius

*** NOTICE ***
Marius Ferreira <mferreira@intekom.co.za>
RSA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 18:45:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 155.239.198.225)

jhall,
Right on. - It is a shame that the Press takes more pride in forming our opinions than informing us as a people. You are right, Keyes is kept from us as if they are afraid of him...
Grogan <reptech@televar.com>
Republic, WA, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 18:49:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.8.144.158)
RE: yards and meters.
for me fastes way to get yard and meter conversion:
meters=0.9 x yards
yards=1.1*meters
HK <HenryK@marvineng.com>
LA, CA, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 19:04:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.165.39.11)
Guys,
I'm looking for anything I can find on the Steyr SSG69 sharpshooters rifle. Books , articles , links , parts/accessory sources etc. Also interested to hear from anyone using one. How do you like it , what you dislike etc. I just managed to get my butt scratchers on one and will hopefully be fitting it with an M1LR or M3LR.
Thanks,
Don
Don <tdfarmer@concentric.net>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 22:03:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.83.80.31)
Hi,
I am the creator of the Long Range Shooting tutorials/games that was posted here a few weeks ago. I have received alot of helpful input and
comments from people on this bulletin board. I just finished an advanced level in which you can engage moving targets using the ambush method. Take a look at it and tell me what you think. Due to popular demand I am working on a greatly expanded version of these tutorials/games which will be available on a CD. You won't have to connect to the internet, wait for it to download or worry about a plug-in. I can't make them any larger than they are now for the web...just too long a download time. As soon the CD is finished I will post the information on the web site.
Thanks again,
Karin Christensen
Karin Christensen <karinc@ccosmo.net>
Murrieta, CA, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 01:48:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.67.161.205)
Jeff. Here is the procedure adjusting your scope. The first step is to adjust the reticle. Follow the procedure as stated. Do not cut corners. This is the procedure for a Leupold but the idea is the same. Your eyepiece doesn't lock down but its the same deal.

? Look at a distant object (around 300 yards away) and allow your eyes to become focused on it. Quickly look through the scope at the sky or a blank wall and check to see if the reticle is immediately sharp and crisp. If it is, then no further adjustment is needed. If your eye has to re-focus on the reticle then proceed.

? Grasp the eyepiece and back it away from the lock-ring.

? Turn the eyepiece several turns so as to move at least 1/8". It will take this much change to achieve any measurable effect on the focus.

? Repeat step one. If the image is better, continue to turn the eyepiece in the same direction. If it is worse, turn the eyepiece the other way and repeat steps 1-3 until the image of the reticle is sharp and crisp immediately upon looking into the scope. Do this several times, taking the focus past the point of focus to ensure you have the clearest setting. Then lock up the eyepiece by screwing the lock-ring back to the eyepiece.

? Parallax is indicated by the apparent movement of the reticle to the target as the shooter moves his eye across the exit pupil of the scope. When the scope is correctly focused for a specific target, the image is precisely on the reticle plane, and no parallax is present if the reticle was focused properly.

? Many tactical scopes feature an adjustment for eliminating parallax. This adjustment is either an adjustment knob on the left of the scope (as viewed from the rear) or a ring on the objective lens housing. The purpose of this adjustment is to keep the target on the same focal plane as the reticle.

If your reticle isn't perfectly focused prior to adjusting the objective you will still have a little parallax when the target is sharp since the image of the reticle and the image of the target are still on different focal planes. If the target is crystal clear and you reticle still moves refocus your reticle a little until the movement goes away. DOn't touch the reticle adjustment again or you will start polishing a turd.

Remember, if you are moving your head around more than an inch or two you may see a little reticle movement even if everything is perfectly adjusted.

SOMEBODY put this in the Hot Tips/Cold SHots puleez!! THis is like the 10th time this has come up. Thankyuu..

Gooch

gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 01:58:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.154)

CANADA EXPORT BAN RESCINDED
-US authorities removed the export ban after they learned the 'missing' firearms weren't missing and in fact had not even left the US - so all existing permits have been renewed. The cause certain importers who import for LE agencies have open ended (and open numbered) permits to allow them to bring in firearms in at short notice throughout the year. Apparently Civil Servants on both sides panicked and the BAN came down with little thought or foresight!

Personal transfers are unaffected as they go through ATF and where not affected by the BAN

So no problems (phew!! my rifle is still in Jerry's shop)
and Brian we can still swap the pistols.

Denny - stock is on way I just got the check
email me if you want the barrel (it is in Jerry's shop)(I lost your email) He is in California as well so it might be easier?

Who ever emailed me about the HK91 it can't go to the US sorry!
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 02:46:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.129.118)

Karin'; Glad to have the news. Would sure be intrested in your expanded versions. Guys if you haven't tried these your missing a good time. Something to do on a Snow day! Lotsa good skill practice there! Karin's done a fine job on the program. You can learn and get better and quicker at Mil Dots there.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 05:42:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Hi Guys,
Read the sniper country review on the White Feather ammunition. I called Talon Mfg. and they still make it, only they now call it Talon Match, exact same load, different name.
My question, how does this stuff compare to the Federal Gold Medal Match 175's. Did anybody out there give this a heads up test, or want to venture an opinion?
Thanks,
Dan Reever
Danny Reever <dreever@supernet.com>
Arendtsville, Pa, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 12:23:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.157.109.76)
'Sup guys,

Questions, questions...
Anyone have a source for the Lapua .308 match ammo? Secondly, I would like to get some feed back on some favorite tips/techniques for removing copper from barrels. After 3 hrs. of cleaning, I get to wondering... Bolt? Sarge? Master da-Gooch? Has anyone tried the Iosso bore paste yet? Results?
 

Keep'em touchin',

John R.
John R. <jrr051468@aol.com>
MS, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 14:35:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.204)

I hope everyone heard about Alan Keyes' body guard. He had a gun licence for one state, but was arrested when he landed via airplane in the communist land of New York. It sure seems as though the media is covering this up. I can't find any further info on it.
 

sean <macdelta1@webtv.net>
houston, tx, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 15:47:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.240.200.110)

Danny,

I have shot the Talon White Feather 175 ammo against the Federal 175 Match, and it stacks up real good. It is a bit hotter than the Federal though. Accuracy was super good out to 500yds. I have not had the chance to try it at 1000yds, yet.

Later,
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 15:49:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.57)

Sean...

That's nothin' new...
... even if you have a New Your State pistol permit, you will get a felony bust for having a handgun in New York City.
In a city of 7,000,000+, there are only 500 non-police carry permits.

But... Senator Edward Kennedy (Dem. Mass) seems to be able to get through New York with his bodyguard (who carrys a full auto weapon), with no problems???
Presidential candidates are supposed to have protection... but I guess that only applys to white guys, and Lefties...

No priveledges for the rich Democrats??? Gimme' a break!

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 16:01:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.60)

Hey folks,
I am no expert at this copper solvent thing but its suprising how many folks dont know that the regular hoppes stuff doesnt take care of the copper, it only cleans out the powder residue,
I found some good and cheap stuff,
called Barnes copper solvent,
cost about 2.99 for a bit,
followed the instuctions and whammo it works like a charm,
I reccomend it,
just follow the instructions and make sure you swab your barrel with oil after using it as to stop the reaction of the Barnes,
this stuff was recommended to me by a fella that sells the high dollar stuff and says its better.
BTW
I appreciate all you guys out there who help us not in the know get the right answers thanks, its nice to come in here or hot tip and get answers.
SMB

SMB <mildot101@aol.com>
Land of OZ KS., USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 17:45:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.63.194.152)

SMB...

I don't know where you got your information about Hoppe's not removing copper... but, MAN, are you way off base.

You run a wet patch in a dirty barrel with Hoppes #9, and the green crap on the patch is COPPER!... you soak a barrel with #9, and the green crap is COPPER!

If you have a badly fouled barrel (from a 7 day trip to Storm Mountain), you can blug the barrel and let it soak for days (without the damage other chemicals cause), then just pour out the crap, and run a patch through it, and the barrel will be clean, without the rust or corrosion from the other agressive chemicals out there.

PLUS.........

It smells so great!!!

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 18:46:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.60)

1) Thanks for the hints & tips about the problems this newbie was having with vertical stringing (I haven't tried any real distance shooting in over 10 years), it helped a great deal!
2) Bear with me if I get the terminology wrong but I'm looking now to buy a "stock sock" that I can use when shooting. I've heard of homemade varieties using leather bags filled with shot, socks filled with plastic beads, etc. Does anyone manufacture anything like this commercially? If so, whom?
3) I wanted a relatively inexpensive semi-auto for fun distance shooting (yes, I know just about any good bolt gun will easily outshoot most semi-autos). I ended up buying a Romak-3 (Romanian FPK Dragunov lookalike) in 7.62x54. Using 1977 Russian 147gr 'silvertip' ammo it shoots 1 MOA off the bench and I can consistently keep my shots inside an 18" circle at 600yds using the Russian PSO 4x scope. Others have also reported decent accuracy with this rifle. After reading about poor Dragunov accuracy at this site I must say I'm surprised that my rifle will shoot this well (especially considering my rusty skills and poor eyesight) and am at a loss to explain the performance discrepancies. Any ideas or comments???
Thanks again for all your help!...
Tom McClimans
Tom McClimans <tomac42@earthlink.net>
Caldwell, Idaho, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 19:15:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.13.113.1)
I saw a post regarding a "general" rule of thumb for ambient temperature differences moving your zero. It was on the lost part of the archives and it disappeared before I copied it down. Anyone remember what is was? and if it was for a .308?
Thanks-I want to go over my logs and check it out for myself to build up my rifles data card.
Mictac <Mictac@AOL.com>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 19:34:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.213)
Hey Pablo,
I am talking bout the Hoppes that comes with all the cheap cleaning kits, it is a powder solvent, I cleaned and cleaned with it but still copper fouled, so I bought the barnes ans 10 minutes later I was done
I just think it is good stuff and cheap.
there is also the hoppes which is the copper stuff, is there a diff?
I used the hoppes in my rifle (dont know if it was #9 or not) and found it to be great at pulling the black powder out but nada for the green,
I just thought the barnes was good stuff for the price,
but hey nothing brings back memories like the great smell of hoppes!!!
everytime I smell it I think of my itty bitty shooting days : )
adios
SMB
SMB <mildot101@aol.com>
Land of OZ KS., USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 19:54:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.63.194.180)
Anyone have any experience with the new Sigarms STR 970. I have yet to see one in person and was wondering if anyone has any personal reviews. I have owned numerous pistols by Sig but have no experience with there long gun line.Just wondering how they compare up to Rem. pss and similar models.
ad <adsjunkbox@mindspring.com>
al, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 22:13:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.134.65)
Anybody out there with a mechanical drawing of Rem's clipslot as used on their 40XC to allow loading with stripper clips?
I understand the Chandler's have such a drawing in DFA #1. I'd love to see a copy. Better yet, anyone out there with a rifle so configured in the Portland/Vancouver area? I'll buy you lunch if you'll let me examine your rifle & measure it. Thanks in advance,
Jim
Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
Portland, Or., USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 22:22:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.204.24)
Regular Hoppes #9, as you can buy now, does virtually nothing to remove copper. (Sorry, 'Lito, but it really doesn't...) Hoppes BR9, however, does an excellent, safe job of removing copper, and indeed can be safely left overnight in the bore, unlike some others (Sweets and S.C. Copper Remover coming to mind). Another excellent choice, my favorite in fact because it is faster than BR9, but not harsh like the others named, is Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber. It comes in a plastic bottle, unlike BR9, so if you knock the thing over, it's not time to call the EPA either.

Regular Hoppes #9 does a fine job on powder fouling, and removing paint from barrels and stuff (like an H-S Precision stock, or Leupold scope). I suppose the type of paint might be key here. Just don't expect it to turn the patches green (from copper).

Iosso bore paste works very well indeed. I keep it as part of my cleaning stuff, along with solvents, U.S. Arsenal patches (the best), a good bore guide with solvent port (nice to use when you have a bottle with a pour spout/tip thing), and Dewey coated rod.

See you northern Kalifornia fellers at the Long Range Tactical match tomorrow, Sunday 3/5. No sighters, no bullshit, don't get there late and expect us to watch you walk to the line. (If I'm late, I will regret this last part...)
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Radioactive, CA, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 23:38:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.162.49.128)

Pablito -

Varget. I think I saw a comment here a few days ago from you to the effect that Varget was just a bit slower than 4064. Can you confirm this for me? Unfortunately, none of my manuals show Varget. I really need to replace some of my older ones.

If Varget is slower than 4064, I'd like to work up a load for .30-06 Ackley Imp with the 155 Palmas. My manuals show a max load of 4064 at about 3000 fps with a 150 bullet in .30-06 and I'm hoping to get 3150-3200 with the AI.
Pat T <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 00:19:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)

Will...

I'm not about to start a pissin' contest over cleaning gook, but I've got a gallon plastic milk jug full of green patches on my cleaning bench, if you'd like me to send them C.O.D. so you can see them, just give me your address... and I just ran another wet patch through a new stainless barreled rifle I'm breaking in... and it came out GREEN... it's not the fastest, or the most aggressive solvent, but it doesn't damage the metal or the barrel, if you leave it in over night.
Lemme' know where to send the green patches :)

Pat Tidwell...

"Varget. I think I saw a comment here a few days ago from you to the effect that Varget was just a bit slower than 4064. Can you confirm this for me?"

Yup... just get the 50th anniversary edition of the Sierra manual. You will find that 308 loads are typically .5 to 1 grain over the 4064 loads for the same velocity, and in the .223 with heavy bullets, it is about .5 grains more.
My personal experence confirms it (for what little that's worth).
I've also found that it's very tolerant of heavy loads with heavy bullets... shooting a 190 SMK @ 2600 with no signs of pressure (no, I won't tell you the load, but I think a few others on this site have done the same).

The 11th Speer, and the 4th Nosler don't have Varget... there have been a few new manuals in the past year or so, and they should have it also. I think the new Hornady has it.

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 00:53:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.45)

On the copper thing........

Thanks to these nice young men on the Duty Roster, I have avoided any copper build up in my new fire sticks by doing the proper break-in procedure. That made my normal anal type cleaning procedure much simpler.

But on my pre-Snipercountry sticks I simply did the following without even looking to see if they were badly fouled, amde the assumption that they were:

Plugged barrel and poured in regular Shooters Choice. Let sit for one hour. Poured out, but saved. Next I ran 10 wet Shooters Choice patches through. Soaked a wire brush and did 15 or 20 strokes. Ran another wet patch through then a dry patch. It was fairly clean, not much green. Then in at room temperature, I ran 2 soaked patches of Sweets through followed by a thoroughly soaked nylon brush with Sweets. Let set 15 minutes. Ran dry patch through. Ran 2 wet patches of Shooters through again followed by a dry patch. No green at all. Ran 2 alcohol patches through followed by a dry. Ran 2 oil patches through followed by a dry. Did this to all my sticks and in addition went through the entire breakin procedure again.

That's how I done did it.
 

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 01:03:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.59.230)

if you have a very severe case of cooper fouling,plug your chamber VERY tightly,mix 50% ammonium hydroxide and 50% rubbing alcohol in a small squirt bottle,add a penny or copper jacketed projectile to start the reaction,pour it down your bore,it will fizz like crazy,don't leave it more than 10 min.pour it out,clean it with a regular bore solvent to stop the reaction.don't leave it long or it will start to eat your barrel.only use this method if your bore is severly copper fouled,and not every time you clean it.you will have a shine you won't believe.
outta here.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony W. <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 01:44:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.25.254.106)
i am thinking of buying a long gun and am torn between the remington
700 pss/ remington 700 vs or the savage 110fps. I am very comfortable with the .308 caliber and want to stay with it. I also saw a remington 700 ltr (?) at a gun show with a leupold vari-x 3 scope for a bout 950$ dont know if that is a good deal or not would appreciate any and all input fromthe experts before i spend money on something that wont make me happy and i won have confidence i shooting. you can email your advice to terry6715@msn.com if you have any other weapon systems in mind i would appreciate input in those too, however my wife wont allow me to spend too much money!!
terry <terry6715@msn.com>
TARENTUM, Pennsylvania, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 01:58:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.10.63.98)
Ken,

I also read the American Gunsmith article on Microlon Gun Juice. Sounded too good to be true so I called the guy and ordered some. Because its components evaporate at different rates, he only sells it in 1 oz. bottles. $10/bottle. If you buy 4 or more, the price drops to $8/bottle. He claims that they have put over 26,000 rounds of .17 cal. through a barrel at 7,000fps, and the barrel shows absolutely no wear!!!!!!!! As the old Missouri saying goes: Show me! Will let you know how the stuff works on some of my toys. It's also supposed to be a great lube and corrosion preventer for darned near anything.
Doc <doc@fidnet.com>
The balmy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 03:09:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.216.205.99)

Oops!
Correct e-mail address is: docs@fidnet.com
Doc <docs@fidnet.com>
The balmy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 03:13:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.216.205.99)
Kevin: The export situation was the result of Lloyd Axeworthy asking the US to suspend issuing export permits until he could figure out what was going on.

The NY Times article was full of bull shit. They were claiming it was feared a lot of the guns were finding their way back into the US through the black market. Why would a dealer go through all of this permit process if they were going to do something illegal ? It doesn't make sense. I can't imagine any smart crook wanting to leave a very well documented paper trail back to himself.

As far as the import permits go, they aren't actually open ended or numbered. The permits themselves are good for only 6 months for the specific number of goods that are to be imported into Canada.

This whole situation is a result of an American demand (for import and export permits). For a dealer in Canada it takes approx. 3-4 weeks to have an import certificate authorized. It then tkes at least that long, if not longer, for the American export certificate to be issued. This type of delay can cripple a business if it can't acquire sufficient inventory to provide to its customers in a timely basis.

The Firearms people at Foreign Affairs and International Trade are actually great guys. They suggested you pad the numbers of goods you were looking to import, so that you can draw against that amount at some point without having to go through "the dog and pony show" all over again when you run out of inventory and need more.

I believe the American export document is good for a year, so the dealer (or whoever)can draw against the padded amount while waiting for their new permits to be issued. This eliminates a lot of the down time having to wait for the paperwork to come through.

Some distributors and dealers have taken this to the extreme, however, and that is why all the fuss was stirred up. If the whole process was more efficient and didn't take so much time to complete, there would never have been a problem to begin with.

I don't believe I've ever told anyone here on this board that I'm a firearms dealer and a Hornady distributor. When I spoke to Hornady on Tuesday, they claimed the US State Dept. never told them to not to send for export permits to Canada. As far as Hornady was concerned, it was business as usual.

Just my very long $0.02 worth on the subject.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Canada - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 03:50:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.97.26)

RE Ghillie suits in the inner city.

Thanks to those who posted and emailed advice, especially those who recommended scent killers to get around dogs.

I can see some clarification is in order. I work an inner city precinct in one of America's most populated cities, but we don't really have the tenement buildings and endless concrete that I would think New York has. There are many run down and abandoned houses, and they have usually overgrown yards. There are also many vacant lots.

The targets would usually be drug dealers rather than robbers and such. We are trying to observe drug deals, not catch robbers by being the victims.

We have had good success observing both in uniform and in plain clothes on drug dealers. We hide in bushes, in abandoned houses, in plain cars, and between houses.

The criminals are adapting to our tactics. They know from trial testimony the types of places we hide in. A few seem to be choosing their locations with an eye to thwarting us.

We don't want to ask citizens to let us into occupied homes because we are concerned about retaliation against them.

Back up would be very close. At least one guy would be dedicated to having my back as I observe and transmit to the take-down team, but those tactics are subject to change if I learn a better way.

I would especially like any info from those who have used a suit like this, particularly info on realistic distances. I think three yards is way too close. It would probably be impossible to broadcast info to the take-down team without being heard by the target. Three yards, nine feet, is smaller than the rooms most of us have our computers in. I have been that close, when somone wandered by, but all I could do was stay quiet to avoid being compromised.

Again, ALL info and opinions are welcome from EVERYONE. Put your two cents in and then look for more spare change.

Thanks, and Semper Fi
 
 

Mark Johnson <markj12pct@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 05:36:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.69)

25th.inf. Div. 69-70
2nd. class of sniper school Veit. Nam
James Remmel <KC848@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 17:10:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.199.146)
The Chandlers list a new book called "Sniper One". Anybody heard about it yet or have any info on what it contains?
TR <BOLTGUNZRUL@aol.com>
Portland, OR, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 18:51:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.67)
Mark,

Hey man, if you're crawling around in vacant lots, and in overgrown yards where the drug dealers are doing their deals then be sure to look out for the used needles.

Later,
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 00:22:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.205.53)

I finished "Sniper One" a few weeks ago. It's a novel by Roy Chandler (the Colonel's brother) about a Marine sniper who operated in Iraq during the Gulf War. The insertion team discovered some items of interest while in the hide and several years later, return to recover said items. Its an interesting read…not quite on par with Stephen Hunter's "Point of Impact" but then, that's the best damn book I've read in years! Sniper One contains some interesting tidbits and makes several veiled references to the Chandler Sniper (rifle) throughout the book. SSGT "Clicker" Bell, the book's main character, uses the Barrett M82A1 as his main rig but manages to con Colonel Rock (AKA Norm Chandler) out of one of his precious rifles in a mere 3 weeks. The rest of us mortals must wait 14 months! be safe.
 

Bill 0294, Clearwater, FL <lhardin1@netscape.net>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 02:12:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.92.204.249)

Hello:

I have a guy who needs a 34" .338 blank. He says his H-S 26" 338 win mag is a thousand yarder, head shots on hogs at that range plus. I guess I never considered a 338 win mag as a contender for the thousand yard. 338 Lapua, yes, much more powder behind the lead to push it to the velocity necessary to attain a trajectory thousand yarders are looking for. hmmmm...

Pat(mrbullet):

I'm almost at D-day here, still deciding on the caliber of choice, want a bore that I can reach out and talk to somebody, but would also like the chance to take some meat home too!! 260Rem is lookin better and better, is at the top of the list followed closely by my HTR's (.308). They are closing in on 1/4 MOA as an average score, and I make a lot of 'em, I know you have shot both calibers, you love 'em both, just gimme some input. If I go with the 260 and shoot the 142's, will I be giving up accuracy on the 120's?? can I make up for it on headspace?? would it be easier to go with a SS, or would a BDL be the way to go?? You know a close third choice is the 7-08........... and by the way, aren't you about tired of this winter, so much snow and cold?? heheh , I'm supposed to do the coyote hunt thing St. Patty's weekend, should be fun, get to see the old man for a day or so, maybe I'll give ya a ring
 

JR <westernpump@sullybuttes.net>
rapid city, sd, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 03:17:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.34.9.83)

Say you guys, am I the only one from Sniper Country attending the Woodchuck and Egg Shoot in North Carolina. Let me knnow if any of you studs are going to be down there????????
Theres prize money to be won, and I happen to be on vacation that week and my lovely wife told me to get the hell outta Dodge!! (And you guys wonder why I love her so much - after she gives me the money to go and have a good time. You guys dont think she will be having a better time - do you??)

al o.
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Sunny, Glorious, , O-hi-er, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 03:33:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.144.4.177)

About the .338 Lapua: Shooting Times did a comparison of this caliber
with some others I don't recall. What I do recall about their test is that the .338 Lapua was the very least impressive calibre of the 3 or 4 they tested. Makes me wonder why so much money was spent developing it for 1000yd shooting when other more common American calibers do way better. Statistically speaking.
sven <svenska50@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 03:52:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.174.99.181)
Copper fouling,

You know there are a lot of different ways to remove the stuff. I personally prefer Hoppes #9BR to do the dirty work. Although you can add industrial strength ammonia to regular #9 and that also works. I have been using an electralisis system by Outers recently (last two years) and it works just fine.
I do however do not totally clean out my bore since doing so changes my POI.

Went paint balling Saturday and had a total blast! You really can sink some $$ into these paint guns.

One of my recent thoughts have been on getting a new striker spring for my M700. Can anyone tell me with some certainty that a heavier spring reducing the lock time actually improves group size? I just can't seem to get anyone at the ranges to give me any difinitive answers. Yes I'm another accuray freak.

One last thing to those so inclined, DON'T FORGET TO VOTE!!

Semper Fi!!
Bravo Kilo out.
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 06:03:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.77.71.162)

any ideas out there for an after market stock for a Savage 112 bvss. Preferably fiberglass or synthetic. Please e-mail me with any ideas and if possible a price or price range.
Thanks,
Zach
Zach <buckskin52@hotmail.com>
pa, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 06:23:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.166.160.51)
Hello all,

I am new around here and realize this could open the proverbial can of worms but I would appreciate any input or advice you could give me. My question is about Texas Brigade Armory's rifles. I am considering an M40A3 and would be interested in hearing any comments or opinions on thier rifles.

Thanks in advance,

R.A. Head

R. A. HEAD <RHEAD@REDSHIFT.COM>
CARMEL, CA, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 06:51:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.204.197.48)

Bad Karma,
I've been paintballing for awhile now,and yes it's a real blast.some of the new striker springs,ecspecially the heavier Wolff springs will eventually cause sear bite,or at least a little galling of your cocking piece and or sear,stick with a factory replacement.
Al O,
I'll be there.see ya 1 Apr.you think there is something fishy about having it on April Fool's Day?
outta here.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony W. <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 11:26:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.45)
Bad Karma;
As for the heavier bolt springs, I have used the 28# spring, factory is 24#, in a couple of my rifles with no ill effects but with no improvment in accuracy that I can see. I tried the 32# spring but I felt a little vibration that I did not like. Any of the heavier springs will increse the cocking effort and I am sure the 32# spring would increse the wear on the cocking cam. I think that the heavier springs would be a mistake if you are going to use these on a tactical rifle as they would slow your repete shots due to the incresed cocking effort.
Just my two cents worth.

Jerry
Jerry Rice <nor-cal@worldnet.att.net>
American Canyon, CA, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 16:03:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.72.65.229)

Guys, went and shot with the Mudville Militia this weekend. Great bunch of guys. I wont say it was wet out htere but I had to go back into the field and find my boots that were sucked off my feet by the quickmud. LOL Just kidding. Pat Tidwell, you have got to go to this shoot and have some fun. I shot my Norcal 300 Win and once I have all the zeros down look out. The Sierra Program said I would need 31moa to hit at 1000 yards. I used 30 because my 900 yard data was over the head. I still was high into the head. 28moa would be just right. Before anyone jumps on me for God only knows why, the chronograph clocked the 220's at 2750fps after I set off 68.5grains of RL22. The rifle shoots little bitty groups with that load.

It was nice to put faces to the guys that regularlly post here.

Well back to slings.

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 16:24:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.213)

Bad Karma...
What Jerry Rice said!! Twice!

If you think lock time is a problem, then consider going to one of the light weight titanium firing pins... you will gain more from a light pin, than a heavy spring. But the difference between 2 milli-seconds, and 2.2 milli-seconds... I don't think it will make any difference either way.

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 16:30:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.18)

Jr.
If you build the 260 you should have no problems with the 120s or the 107s. Most I taked to say they shoot better than the 142s or the 140s. I have stayed with the 142s because of my long range shooting. I tried some 120s and they shot into .4s when the 142s were in the .6s but I couldn't use them for the 100 and 200 yard ranges because the point of impact was different and I didn't want to be screwing around with that all the time. I have been shooting all this last week and a half, everyday, comparing the 308 and the 260 to one another. I have been shooting cold bore and groups from 400 to 700 yards. Both rifles have turned in some impressive groups and some average ones but the key is the windage adjustments to start off the 260 takes 1 MOA less adjustment at 500yds and then only needs .5 MOA for each 100 to 700yds. The 308 needs a full MOA between each 100yds. The other thing is the groups are tighter on the 260 than the 308 from 500 on out and I believe this is because it is less effected by the wind drift. I have good loads for both and very seldom have much over a .5 MOA vertical spread at any range. I don't think you can go wrong with either but I still have to favor the little 260 its much more forgiving and makes me look better(HA). Let me know what you decide.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 17:42:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)
All:

NOTICE: sometime later this afternoon - the Range is going to go cold for say - about 30 minutes or so. We're gonna knock our T1 down and activate more channels. That's so you Hogs can suck the roster down alot faster :)

Sorry for inconvenience.... go do some real work while you're waiting.

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 18:07:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.172.42.2)

Guys: this isn't a "long range" post, but I think you'll like it anyway. The Glock experiment is hereby over. I decided about 8 months ago to shoot the thing and carry it, and not clean it until it started to jam. Just to see how much I could "get away with". Well, I have a number for that now. I can shoot (haven't counted the EXACT leftovers yet) between 2500 and 3000 (I'm guessing about half way) over 8 months, carrying every day, and not have a jam. I did have some this weekend (the very first from this pistol!!!), although I question if it wasn't due a little to the use of Nato ammo rather than my +p+'s. No time to load lately. It seems that when the Glock needs cleaning, it lets you know. There were 5 or 6 jams out of the 100 used. Needless to say, I'm impressed. Now to do the same thing with one of those nifty Wilson Combat CQB's.......

I've not left you guys, just been a little too busy to post (NEVER too busy to read though!). Good luck!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Still alive in Cedar City, Utah, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 18:58:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)

Pablito;
I don't have much experience with the light weight firing pins but I did put a Tubb firing pin into a customers 25-06 that was shooting in the 3's and 4's and it went to a 1 1/2" rifle. He brought the rifle back and I changed it back and the rifle went back to shooting in the 3's and 4's. I don't know why it made such a bad change and I don't care but needless to say I do not install the light weight firing pins anymore. I am sure this does not happen every time but this is what happened to me.
Just my two cents worth.

Jerry
Jerry Rice <nor-cal@worldnet.att.net>
American Canyon, CA, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 23:28:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.72.103.254)

All: Okay roster hogs! We oughta be rockin' alittle faster now.

Enjoy!

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 23:45:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Jerry Rice...

That is my own opinion too. My feeling is leave the firing pin alone.
There are so many guns coming out of the custom shop that are shooting in the .2" to .3" range, with standard pins and springs, that if the gun isn't shooting well... look some place else.

Put my two cents in with yours.

'lito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 23:53:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.71)

Modest Mike Miller, the un-Dude, using a new rifle with unknown "real" zeroes, in the rain and the wind at Sacramento Valley on 3/5/00, forgot to mention that he scored 3rd out of 23 or 24 shooters, in his FIRST TIME at this match. Oh yeah, he just had foot surgery too.

Way to go Mike! To the rest of you who only read his posts, YES, he can shoot too. Please come see us at the next match, which happens the first Sunday of each month at 0800. Dee Turner and Dan Schmitz did another fine job of running things. The 600 yard head shots (at one stage) were a neat twist on the normal competition.

Bad Karma, we hope to see you there soon.
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Radioactive, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 01:27:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.14.52.225)

.260 Rem vs. 6.5x55
 

I see that the .260 Rem has popped up as a subject here once again. Cool. I am a major fan of 6.5mm in general and have had some uncanny luck with one of my Sweedish Mausers: .7 MOA @ 100 yards out of a butcherized...um, sporterized...M96. Not bad for a gun made in 1903. It likes 140 MKs on top of a very HOT load of H4831. How hot? 2,900+ FPS from a 29" barrel. Pretty danged hot, I'd say.

Sooo, for those of us that are already tooled up and experienced in loading for 6.5x55 and are interested in building a long-rage 6.5mm gun from the ground up, and think the Sweed cartrige is already one very fine cartrige, whats my motivation for going to .260?
 

Oh, and a quick update on the 700PSS From Hell : The rifle, now newly bedded in Marinetex, has gone to the range for two weeks in a row without an appreciable change in zero. This is to be comapred to how it worked in the OEM HS Precision with standared machined bedding where I had to chase the zero across the target from week to week. It had moved 3.5 MOA in three outings and seem to be
accelerating when my milling machine and I interviened two weeks ago.
5-shot groups are still holding steady at about .75 MOA and they are at the same spot on the paper each time . Now I have a rifle I can work with. Thanks for the help, guys.
 

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Columbia, in the still-Confederate-flaged state of,, SC, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 01:49:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)

Mike Miller

I've got Sacramento on my schedule, probably in May. I'm committed here for the first weekend in April.

I'm trying to work your June class in New Mexico into my budget. When's the cutoff date?

Pat T
Pat Tidwell <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 02:29:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)

WHOA!!!

I connected via DSL last week and, with the site improvements, actually load this site within not more that 3 seconds!!!

Way to go, KEN!!! Your changes decreased load time dramatically!!!

The rest of you guys - if you can get DSL, I recommend it highly. Compare it to subsonic vs. supersonic! It certainly makes for faster, less frustrating navigation. Definitely worth the extra dinero.

Sorry for the digression...now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

Semper Fi!
Roger E. Lays <rlays@zbzoom.net>
PA, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 02:29:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.67.120.227)

The "Mudville Match" on March 5, 2000 was won by "Wills" with a score of 282 of 360 possible, excellent shooting under the circumstances. The conditions were very much befitting the match's nick name "Mudville". Temps in the high 40's. The ground wet from about a month of consistent rain, then Sunday, it rained. To make sure the rain was well distributed on all of the optical surfaces, the wind was blowing about 10 mph from 7-8 o'clock for most of the match. Based on personal experience, the only way not to fog either my glasses, or my scope, or both, was not to breath (ever). That left the view through the scope looking very much like looking through a wet shower door. Good shootin' "Wills".

You folks should come shoot with us, first Sunday of the month 0800 at Savramento Valley Shooting Center. While we can't promise the same set of "ideal conditions" for all the matches they are fun, and a great learning experience.

Dee

Dee Turner <deeturner@jps.net>
Roseville, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 03:20:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.63.224.190)

Found the load for the Federal Match 168's in the archives. Anyone happen to know what load Federal's using for the 175's? And are they still claiming that it's a blend.
Thanks

Danny
Danny Reever <dreever@supernet.com>
Arendtsville, pa, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 03:49:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.157.108.246)

I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PURCHASE A REMINGTON PSS NEW IN BOX FOR 650
(692 WITH TAX ETC.) I DONT KNOW IF I SHOULD JUMP ON IT IR LET IT PASS.
I'M LOOKING FOR SOME INPUT FROM THE PRO'S ON THIS(BIG MONEY ON MY COPS BUDGET).
 

E-MAIL: TERRY6715@MSN.COM FOR YOUR INPUT (WHICH IS GREATLY APPRECIATED)
terry <terry6715@msn.com>
TARENTUM, Pennsylvania, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 04:24:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.10.65.146)

I read the duty roster regularly -- lots of good info. I don't normally post but but I think its worth while to point out that Clinton and company are putting on the big push for legislation to shut down gun shows and mandatory licensing or worse. Now is the time to write, email or call your senators and congressman or congresswoman. If you don't have a name or address you can pull the information down from www.senate.gov and www.house.gov. If your senators and representatives don't think that you care, they are going to follow the politically expedient path of least resistence. Its up to us.
Jored <ljorgens@ix.netcom.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 05:24:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.30.108.166)
Tony,

Do not... REPEAT DO NOT USE AMMONIUM HYDROXIDE MIXED WITH ALCOHOL TO CLEAN YOUR BORE!
When I was in school ten years ago, I worked as a technician in at the Latrobe Steel Research & Developement metallurgy lab. That sounds ALOT like some of the stuff I mixed up to ETCH THE GRAIN BOUNDAIES ON POLISHED SAMPLES OF STAINLESS STEEL. You should see what it looks like under a microscope!
Steve <hockyref@bellatlantic.net>
warming up in, south west Pa, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 05:44:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 151.201.122.42)

Danny...

Fed doesn't use blended powder, and never has. Nor does any other commercial loader (including the small guys, like Corbin).
They use bulk, non-canister powder. Federal has three "certified" powders for the .308 that they use, depending on what's available. One is a non-canister equivelent of IMR-4064... I can't speak to the other two.
They don't blend powders... they buy a batch (a few rail car loads), make tests for pressure and velocity, and then run the entire lot... making tests at intervals in the day, throughout the run.

There are no "Magic Blends"... just plain ol', plain ol' powder!

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 10:56:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.36)

To Tom Simpson, re. .260 vs. 6.5X55.

The .260 fit in the Rem M700SA wich is "US-standard".

In "any" other action I'd go for 6.5X55 due to the availability of factory matchammo. On this side of the pond 6.5X55-matchammo even outnumbers the 308win. The regular Lapua 139gr "diesel"-load tracks the 300wm/220 cam on a Leupold M3 perfectly.

TorF
 

TorF <torf@aftenposten.no>
Oslo, - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 11:21:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.212.93.33)

Ok guys one more time and Ill let it go
Anyone seen or heard anything on the new Sig Arms STR970. Cant find much info other than whats on there own site. I would like any info on price range, accuracy, and comparison to other rifles like the pss. Looks pretty nice. Anyone seen or heard any reviews.
ad <adsjunkbox@mindspring.com>
al, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 14:03:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.131.204)
Damn, did that download fast! Over 4000fps. Congrats SC.

On the firing pins and springs, I had a .75MOA gun (factory stock 700VS .243WIN) and a Wolff 28# firing pin upgrade(?) opened it out to 1.5MOA at 100-400Y. So I swapped it back. On a different gun (700P .308WIN) the same Wolff 28# spring improved a 1.25MOA gun to .75MOA and it's still performing that way at 100-1000Y (conditions stable). The 700P dryfire sounded dead prior to the install. The 243 was audibly crisp. Moronic Luck. Shoot and see. The interior bolt surface is unreasonably rough on some guns and finished better on others. Shouldn't matter if pin and spring tolerances are correct with no excessive internal sidewall contact. Be aware with aftermarket spring fit.

Even more boring than that, the collar on another firing pin on one of my 700's was galling on the interior bolt sidewall near the pin stop shoulder where there was an extreme burr where the ejector plunger spring hole cuts through near the firing pin stop shoulder. We were looking to the cause of inconsistent group flyers with different shooters and the same gun. We figured this excessive burring caused inconsistencies so I cleaned it up. Group flyers disappeared. Pin would have probably worn the burr eventually and cured this with time since it is harder. Part of the break-in process I presume. Check it with a bore scope if experiencing flyers.

I've just received a Tubb Speedlock firing pin with Wolff spring to experiment with in different guns. The supplied spring was larger DIA and binds on the bolt walls going in. Swapped it for another Wolff and all fits better now. Wrong supplied spring I figured. I'd rather have the forward pin maintain pin alignment than the spring with sidewall interference. I hope I have better luck at the target with the Tubb setup than some have encountered. Tain't shot it yet but it sounds purdy.

To,
Mike (the Undude), it was good shooting next to ya, and congrats.
Wills, congrats. Both of you stay home so we can place higher.

Cheers,
Kenya (putting the anal in over-analyzing guns)
Kenya <kenya_sheutte@yahoo.com>
mudville, supercalifragilistic, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 14:46:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.241.147)

To Pat Tidwell:
I can answer your question to Mike Miller. I am the Phoenix based co-ordinator for the American Shooting Academy, the home site for the course at which Mike Miller and others will be instructing.
The signup deadline for the June rifle course in New Mexico has no fixed cutoff date. Registration will be closed when the range slots are filled. So it is in your best interest to make your interest known to James as soon as possible. General information can be found on WWW.ASA-training.Com and more specific questions and signups can be done with James Jarrett directly at (623) 581-6606.
Bob Hodge <info@ASA-training.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 16:11:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.241.155.50)
Firing Pins: Leave the stock ones in! They sell the big dollar ones to get your money.

Pat Tidwell, I hope to see you in June. I answered you in depth via email, but I will put a little bit out for the other interested guys on the rooster. The class in June is dependent on getting enough students to not cost James or I money. We are close to the number of students needed, if they send in the money they promised! James and I would like all deposits in by May1 so we can get everything up and running the way it should be. If you want to come, email me or james and let us known. I promise you will not be sorry you came to the class.

Mudvile Militia, I hope to get back and try for a first. LOL Next time I wont have an excuse if I lose.

Dee Turner, my Nightforce Scope didn't fog and I could see the "X" Ring at 600 yards. That is one fantastic scope. NXS5.5x22x56. They promise to send me the 3.5x15x50 in April. The 5.5x22x56 was supposed to be a loaner but I called NightForce up and said they couldn't have it back so set a price. This article is going to cost me big bucks.

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 16:37:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.193)

I want to re-torque the screws on my HS Precision 700P-DM stock. The barrel has shifted slightly left and I want to re-seat and torque. Recommendations on tools and technique appreciated.
Breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 17:33:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.3.204.222)
On the spring issue,

Thanks for the info guys, I'll stick to what I got. The gun is capable of 1/4 MOA now and I doubt thata spring will help much. Heck! The barrel isn't even totally broken in yet! I got 395 total rounds fired through it and I have a ways to go before it settles in.

A small note to handloaders,

I got my 175 MKs and the lot# is different. In fact the OAL is out a tad bit to the lands. It was 2.810" now it's 2.819" I seat it 2.821" to snug the lands. It leaves a wee little 6 marks on the moly I put on them. Check those bullets before you seat 'em.

All,

VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!!!!

Bravo Kilo out.
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 17:47:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.79.209.83)

Does anyone know where I can buy some of the issue USMC data books? I think they would work well for me and would probably be cheap. Or does anyone have any other leads on a good data book?
Should I make my own? I have thought about doing a home built one but am not sure what I should include.
Any advice out there?

Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
San Jo, more rainafornia, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 18:39:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.247.149.130)

Quick question on the 308 caliber 175 HPBT Sierra Gold Match ammo:

What is the stated FPS for a 26" barrel with a 1/12 twist? Is it 2600Fps or 2700Fps?

Darren...
Semper Fi
Darren <ddong@witcapital.com>
San Francisco, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 18:51:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.90.57.34)

Jeff-
Tactical Tailor at Ft. Lewis had some SOTIC data books last time I was there (January?)
TonyM <bcoyrecce@hotmail.com>
BC, Canada - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 19:10:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.102.80.125)
DATA BOOKS

Iron Brigade Armory has some Navy Suface Warfare data books.

I have had disasterous attempts at making my own books
as most waterproof materials are not. Nothing like lying out in the rain trying to decipher a bluish smuge that should have come ups etc.
-Yes I know you should know them anyway.
If you want to build your own something like:

RD# Ammuntion Time Temp Wind Dir Dist Meth TGT Effect
371 Norma Match 21:34 -4 8mph 3' 613M Lzr Greasy Serb Neut.

Don't take offence it is just an example, I don't like cowardly little vermin who shoot civie's for fun.

Tailor you book to what you want - if all you need is a round count then don't buy a fancy (and pricey) book. Sometimes the overly detailed book could help (especially in Liabilty) depending upon your detail - my example would probably jail me:)
Some people also use tgt shapes and indicate the impact point and come ups used to achieve the results.
You probably know your needs better than others and you can always change.

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 22:17:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.142.23)

Citibank loves us again. www.worldnetdaily.com If you check out this story, scroll down to the Army Sgt's tale of woe.
Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
PDX, Or., USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 22:55:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.133.251)
Has anyone out there had some hands-on or heard anything about the KVH Datascope. I could not find anything in the archives. The datascope sells in U.S. Cav for about $460.00. It is about palm-sized and has a built in compass which will store seven bearings. It also keeps the time. What was of interest to me was the fact that it is supposed to range out to 1800 yards, per the customer service rep. They could not tell how it ranges and the only thing I have any knowledge of are the laser range finders.
Any info would be helpful.
Thanks.
Jack <jackwilson@anglefire.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 00:14:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.215.84.142)
Jack - Datascope - Unless you are ranging on a lighthouse, or the The Queen Mary's Smoke stack, don't bother. We tested two of them and the graduations are just too dam coarse for real work in this area of range estimation.

Question on Data Book? - are u looking for data books, shooting logs, rifle logs or a mix there of. Most books have way too much data for a field environment and not enough for a range environment. One is a controled environment and the other is a wet, nasty, forlorn, pit of mushy paper and smugged ink. Unless, of course, you use a laminated data sheet for your shot. Tons of tables and info does not work in the field. On the range you can protect your treasures somewhat, but again the worse may happen. Only take what you need and store the rest for achive purposes and future references where it is safe. Then you go to that safe place where you can make your laminated card for a "special date".

Have fun guys, got one heck of a class full of students. Love these classes where most of the guys really can shoot before they get here. Makes my life so much easier!!!!

Rick <RBowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 02:00:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.206.208)

Jack,

Concerning the KHV Datascope. This is more of a mariner's tool than for precise rangefinding. Basically it is an electronic Mil Relation tool. You have to know the size of an object that you are aiming the instrument at. AS you are observing the "target" you holdown a button that raises or lowers a set of electronically generated "bars" until the number of bars corrospond with the height of the target. (Same as mil relation if you're familiar with that).

You enter the size of the target and it calculates the range. It is prone to the same kinds of errors that mil relation using the Mil dot reticle pattern has. These being:

The smaller the target, the more the potential error.
Errors at long ranges in measuring the size of the target or in entering the height of the target have huge errors in the result.
Bad light and air conditions create false images. Even worse in the KHV than when using a mil dot scope that has fine resolution.
You have to know the size of the target accurately.

The digital compass feature has some uses. I tried it a few times for the triangulation method of rangefinding. It did not have the fine resolving power (less than 1MOA angle reading capability) to use it for this method.

Final suggestion: No good for rangefinding. 1800 meters? Maybe, if it is tripod mounted, the air is crystal clear, the target is HUGE and lots of experience using the tool. The standard Mil dot reticle pattern and good optics will get you better results using mil relation than the KHV by far.

Email me if you have any other questions. Thanks and take care.
Trigger50 <Triggerfifty@specialoperations.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 02:03:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.252.120)

To all,
Would anyone like to see a 50 cent version of Outers Foul out bore cleaning device that works. Click on my name at the bottom for pictures and instructions. I found it on Tuco's Reloader shack forum.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 03:52:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.148.59)
On the databook. Check out www.trgt.com and our databook. It is a hybrid between the USMC/Army books as well as other stuff thrown in.

Wasup Rick?

Out
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 04:07:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.167)

Hello, all! I need some advice, please. I need some recommendations on good starting loads and powders to use for .300 Win Mag at 400, 600, and 1000 yards. Also, what would some good recommendations be for optics and/or bases? Personal opinions on the Tasco Mil-Dot series--good for the price, or good for nothing? Also, some general comments, if you would, on the Winchester Model 70 Laredo, composite stock, 26 inch barrel, .300 Win Mag. Any info would be helpful. Finally, opinions on the following bullets: Sierra vs. Berger vs. Hornady vs. Nosler Ballistic Tip--all in the 175/190 grain range.

Thanks for the help!

E. C. Tovar
E. C. Tovar <JJAWA3@EARTHLINK.NET>
Enumclaw, WA, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 06:59:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.13.50.234)

.300 win mag M70 Laredo. I know of five of these, including mine. Of the five, only one of them has had decent accuracy. The best I was able to get with mine was about 1 1/2" at 100 yards. However, it shot everything into 2 to 2 1/2" at that range, which is suitable for hunting. Mine had really excessive freebore, enough that I was able to push 168 Matchkings out of the case with a Stony Point guage. 200 Matchkings left less than 1/8" in the case. I had it rechambered in .300 Ultra Mag to get rid of the freebore a couple of weeks ago, but with all the rain in Southern Ca for the past few weeks I haven't had a chance to shoot it in this caliber. On the other hand both my son and I have M70 Heavy Varmint rifles in .308 that have been tack drivers since day one.
Pat Tidwell <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 08:44:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)
Shilen Barrels as sold by Brownells
 
 

Well, I now have a 700PSS that acts like it wants to shoot pretty good. However, I would like it to be better than pretty good. Rather more like, damn good. I have noted for some years that Brownells sells Shilen barrels prefitted and ready to install. All I need is the action wrench. I know that Shilen is one of the old-time big names in the business but I was told at one point (by a fellow I consider to be something of a rifle snob) that Shilen uses their second-grade stuff to fill Brownells orders. I was wondering if anyone here had any personal experience with Shilen barrels and, more specificaly, with Shilen barrels ordered from Brownells.

Thanks:

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, in the unseasonably warm state of , South Carolina, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 13:04:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

Pat T. Been having very good luck with 300 win mag using Fed GM cases, Fed 215M primers, 73.3 gr RL22 and Berger 190 VLD Moly. Averaging 3050 fps, .3 moa at 100 and 1 moa at 300. Using a Schnieder 25" match fluted barrel with a Vias muzzle brake. Have had similar results with same setup using Sierra 190s. With Nosler 180 Silver Tips was getting .4 at 100 with 73.8 gr of RL22. didn't get a chance to chrony the 180s.

TonyY <ayackowski@rcn.com>
Iselin, NJ, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 13:38:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.97.88.100)

Remember the Accelerator?

I recently saw an ad in Shotgun News for 1000 .30 sabots, $40. I assume these are a surplus Rem/DuPont item from the now defunct Accelerator cartrides, avialable in the early eighties. (chambered in .30-'06, .30-30 Win., and .308 Win., using a .22 caliber bullet of ? wt.)
Does anyone have any load data for .30-'06? Any thoughts on long term use of the sabots in the bore? Any need for a special seating die?

Thanks,

Keith
Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 16:44:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.91)

Here's a really stupid question... Is there any particular reason that the 7mm Rem. Mag isn't used as a long range "sniper" type round?

The reason this sounds so stupid is that, as you've already gathered, I'm not a sniper or "gun guru." I have owned one of these in Rem. M700 for several years and have had great luck in accuracy. I typically use the gun for goundhogs in the Spring and Summer and for deer in the fall/winter. It's been a grat shooting gun.

I am just interested and if it's an accuracy problem what are the causes.

Feel free to reply directly to my email as I don't have a chance to visit Sniper Country on a regular basis (busy like everyone else)

Thanks!
JR
jeff_rich_tn@hotmail.com
Jeff Rich <jeff_rich_tn@hotmail.com>
COOKEVILLE, TN, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 18:59:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.52.76.253)

Keith,
When you shoot the sabot rounds they are only marginal for accuracy to start off with and they get worse the more you shoot them. It used to be necessay to shoot a jacketed bullet about every 5th round or so because of the plastic fouling the bore I guess.

Jeff,
The 7MM Mag is a fine long range round and some Federal agencies even use it as a sniper rifle but like a lot of others it has to be hand loaded to get the full potential out of it and then you get into a liability question. The other draw back is that it is hard on barrels and like a 300 Win Mag it will need a new barrel in about 1500 rounds. The recoil is a lot more severe on the shooter and the 300 would over shadow it for long range work where it would be used beyond the 308s capability. Just my opinion for what thats worth.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 20:09:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)

I want to take a moment to thank everyone that responded to my post on training. It was very refreshing to receive so many well thought out and properly spelled emails. :>) The number one recommended training center was Stone Mountain. Some of you thought that I should choice the Leupold LR series over the NSX from Nightforce. Others gave great ideas on mounts and rings. All the little details that can and do make a differance.
I did think that the reply on shooting at the barn from the inside was one of the best!
I'll post the final scope selection and shooting impressions as they develope. If you want to weight in on the NSX vs. the Leupold, please feel free to start another thread war!
Thank you once again,
Gregory Fields
Gregory Fields <greg.fields@mrigroup.com>
Lancaster, Pa, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 20:16:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.170.180.246)
The7mm rem Mag is an excellent long range cartridge. The Secret Service is using it for their counter sniper rifles. IMHO it is a better long range cartridge than the 300Win Mag due to the more efficient bullets being available in 7mm vs 30cal. I'm using 168BTHP Sierras and 162 A-Max's and I'm also going to try 180 JLK's in my M70. recoil is not bad at all especially compared to a 300mag, about like a 30-06. With a 168 Sierra at 3000fps my rifle shoots into 3/4inch at 200yds. Load is 71.5gn H1000, Fed 215M in Norma cases and the aforementioned 168 Sierras. the Sierra manual lists the BC for the 168 as roughly (.488) which I'm gonna say is BS becasue they list the 190gn 308 as .533 and the 7mm bullet has a better SD. The A-max lists at BC=.625 and when I can get them to shoot well I will switch over. Barrel life is an issue and I will watch closely and let everyone know when mine goes south. Semper Fi....
Ken <target1371@aol.com>
IL, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 22:39:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.206.202)
Leupold versus NightForce, I have been using Leupold for nearly 20 years so you will never hear a bad word about Leupolds better scopes from me. I love the Ultra/MK4's and the new LRM1 and LRM3's are fantastic. I have only been using the NXS for about a month but I will tell you this, I took off a MK4 put on the NXS on my 300 Win. The resolution is better than the Leupold. I like the NXS's reticle better. I would be hard pressed to choose one over the other right now. Both are great and I am waiting for the new NXS 3.5x15x50 to test. As long as you are looking to upgrade take a long look at SxB and BxL scopes as well.

Sniper Schools: SMTC is fantastic but I would like to have a chance to work with you in June at the American Shooting Academy's New Mexico Facility. Two SF Instructors and little old me.

7mm Mag is a fine caliber for snipers if you handload. I will take the 308 and 300 win over it though. They have many more bullet options and you can get Match Ammo from the factories. If I am to handload I would rather hit something with a 220 grain bullet at 2850fps than a 168 from a 7mm Rem at the same speed. If you think my velocity figures are off for this caliber ask Trigger 50, he gets the same without signs of pressure. Start using some RL22 or IMR7828 powders and watch the 220's fly. Just my opinion, but I only needed 28moa to get from 100 to 1000 yards and 3moa for a 10mph wind at 1000 yards.

Dean, congrad's on the book. When's that drag bag coming out

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 01:17:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.34)

On the .300 Win Mag posts, I notice some of the loads listed are maximum loads. I recall when I first started working up loads for my .300 (Shilen, with tight neck)and for my M3(220's at 2650 fps), I started with a mid-range load of H4831 with the first 2 rounds chronographing at 2850 fps (26" barrel). WO! I did'nt have to look at the chronograph because I felt all 17 lbs. of that rifle coming at me. I had to back off 5 gr.'s for the desired velocity. You'all be careful working up those loads.
dan <danr@acnet.net>
Deep South, Texas, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 02:13:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 170.76.33.14)
Pat—I would have guessed this. I bought a box of RemAcc in 1981 and shot an awful group with them (3-4" at 100 yds., Rem 700 BDL, '06) but kept the remainder for the future. But the idea of the velocity intrigued me (projected at 4000 f/s+-, as I remember), along with the idea there was (presumably) no signature on the bullet, assuming it could even be recovered. I understand this had at least someting to do with why Rem. discontinued the load (the good old BATF boys, once again).
Your contention that a follow up round with a jacketed bullet would eliminate any sabot plastic build up seems sound. Now that we have moved into an age of extreme velocities and frangible projectiles of all stripes, my query about the load seems moot. But, like many of us, I like to tinker. I was just wondering if it were possible to put together a low signature bullet/load which would actually SHOOT, using these sabots. Forty bucks is light duty for this day and age. If anyone else has any input, please let me know.

Keith
Keith E. Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 02:47:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.122)

Pat—I would have guessed this. I bought a box of RemAcc in 1981 and shot an awful group with them (3-4" at 100 yds., Rem 700 BDL, '06) but kept the remainder for the future. But the idea of the velocity intrigued me (projected at 4000 f/s+-, as I remember), along with the idea there was (presumably) no signature on the bullet, assuming it could even be recovered. I understand this had at least someting to do with why Rem. discontinued the load (the good old BATF boys, once again).
Your contention that a follow up round with a jacketed bullet would eliminate any sabot plastic build up seems sound. Now that we have moved into an age of extreme velocities and frangible projectiles of all stripes, my query about the load seems moot. But, like many of us, I like to tinker. I was just wondering if it were possible to put together a low signature bullet/load which would actually SHOOT, using these sabots. Forty bucks is light duty for this day and age. If anyone else has any input, please let me know.

Keith