Sniper Country Duty Roster

March 01, 2000 - March 11, 2000


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Hi all,

With the detail Dave Croyle sent me (JT, his included later stuff, so I just used that - but thanks for yours as well) I have now rebuilt most of the Roster.  From all these XXX's above to the next such in Ken's message is the missing detail - the rest will go to the archives.  Other doing some extended cutting and pasting (the detail I got was in the Reverse order) and placing the lines between each post I did no other editing as you people will see.  Hopefully I did not lose anything in bringing it across.

If anybody has any of the detail still missing (fortunately doesn't seem too much) please email it to me.  Same applies if anybody notices that I lost something in switching it around again.

Hope that, between Ken and myself we can get another procedure in place that will minimise the loss should this happen again.  Ken has already been doing a lot on his side.

Marius Ferreira
Webmaster
March 04, 2000


Keith and Lito' Could that be some of that stuff Billy had deactivated and
someone has rebuilt it?
Probably just didn't get it reseated right. There was some 30-06 going
around with LC match
brass that manuf had deactived (unloaded) and then reloaded again with the
same components
to satisfy Bill's leftist political agenda.

Bill; in Clearwater. There is no excuse for luck. There are probably
officers at the bottom of the
swamp down there that might not have been so lucky. Maybe an Elvis Suit
would be more
appropriate in a City enviorment than a Ghilly suit but I figure them
dopers are gonna catch on
right away if they see you in them blues. They can get lucky too. I'm sure
you know you area
and business quite well. In that particular trade there are those who do
take a dim view of
things like being overheard.
I'm sure you have plenty back up. A Ghilly suit is real noticable on at a
bus stop anyway and you
can't get a date in one to save your life.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 01:13:43 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)


sorry to strart the DMR thread again.I have an exceptionaly accurate M1A,
.75 min. consistant.I
would love to give it the DMR treatment,don't want to wait forever on a
stock,anyone know
where I can find one.Possibly a correct scope mount.And is it true the
Marines are welding the
scope mount on?Not to keen on welding on my SA reciever.
Thanks in advance.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony W. <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 01:53:38 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.26.5.8)

I am in Northern California and looking for a place to learn to shoot my
AR-15 well. I was Navy
for 8 years and most of us never train with weapons. We pick them up every
six months, sit
through a 10 minute safety brief, and then get shooting tips for another 10
 until we can pass
the qual again. Minimum rounds expended.

Does anyone know a good school/training center in Nor Cal or at least a
great shooting coach
who can work me into his schedule. Same for my pistol, but my rifle
shooting is worse. 18"
groups at 100 yards and I seem to be wasting more ammo. Yes I read, but am
still not catching
on.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions,

-Steve
Davis <slhoenig@yahoo.com>
Sacramento, CA, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 04:46:43 (ZULU) (your
host address: 169.237.14.94)


Questions about a Bushnell Sentry II.

I found a scope and stand this week end and was actuals surprised by the
performance of the
32X50 scoope. The field of view at 200 is very small and I was wondering if
 a change of eye
peice to a lower power would be better? I can read large signs at two miles
 and more but back
where I will be useing it for CMP it's tight. And who would have shuch
items. I'm going to start
with some camara shops that deal in bird watching equipment but any other
advice is welcome.
It came on a Freeland stand and being way impressed by the high end
equipment used by some
shooters I was sure I would never be able to afford the entry fee and food
too. But this has
change every thing and I think I saved a ton of $ also.

This scope is a lot better than any of the newer Bushnell stuff I looked at
 the rest of the show,
also most of the stuff at $300 + was actualy no better butt for a little
more field of view. What
would be some history on this unit? Why is the calarity so much better.

It looks old and seasoned but for under a $100 I could not pass this set
up. The stand cleaned
up well but it could be improved with a few new parts, any tips here would
be great. Your
$1000 Kowa it's not but hey if it pulls me another 25 points in each of the
 slow positions I will
by the happy camper.

Thanks to all, Scott and Pablito as always, thanks for the tips.

MJ
MJ <montereyjack@kmenterprises.com>
Monterey Bay, The Left Coastto To, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at
04:54:59 (ZULU) (your host address:
165.236.189.200)


Urban Camoflauge -

I would think that you want to be able to blend in with the surroundings.
For open land you
want to look like a bush, a patch of grass, or something immobile, so a
ghillie that looks like
Chewbacca is in order. For a field of corn stubble, it may actually look
like a blond Chewbacca.

(Hold on. I'm going somewhere with this.)

For the urban environment, I would think you also want something
inconspicuous. While bushes
might seem a good idea, most city bushes are scraggly and you will have a
certain attraction to
large dogs who want to "water the daisies". The latter is a definite
disadvantage. A pile of
bricks or concrete rubble might be the thing, but tying 100+ bricks onto
your suit can make it
heavy and they will rattle when you move.

I think the way to go would something mobile, like a wino, a druggie, or a
small van (for those
of us who eat too much pizza). See Tom Clancy's "Without Remorse" for what
I am thinking of.
I know the action isn't very accurate, but it makes an enjoyable read
anyway.

As far as the type of woman attracted by wearing a ghillie, they are
probably the type with hair
on their backs. Is that the attraction to the sheepies that seems to pop up
 here from time to
time?

Ciao
Karl
Karl <dahm0030@tc.umn.edu>
Damn Cold, Mn, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 15:58:18 (ZULU) (your
host address: 134.84.148.151)


I'd like to buy a spotting scope like the M49 that was used in the late
60's. Please email me if
you know the manufacturer and commercial model number. Thanks.
sven <svenska50@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 18:52:03 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.174.99.183)

ANY BODY OUTTHERE WHO CAN MAHE A GOOD DESERT GHILLIE?
BOBBY HALLOWAY <BOBBYHALLO@YAHOO.COM>
SYRACUSE , NEW YORK, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 18:47:48 (ZULU)
(your host address:
198.36.25.180)

This goes into the "Ripleys Believe it or Not Firearms Control" category:
I'm just filling out my "Application for License for Acquisition/Possesion"
 (replaces the FAC) and
came to this part:

Section B-During the past two years have you experienced a:
1) divorce, separation, or breakdown of a significant relationship?
2) major failure in school, loss of job, or bankruptcy?
If Yes, provide details.

You also have to have the application signed by:
per schedule 1-Your current spouse/common law partner with whom you are
living

and/or

per schedule 2-any spouse or person of the same or opposite sex with whom
you have lived in a
conjugal relationship for three months or more during the two years prior
to this application
stating: "I am aware of the applicant's request for a license to aquire a
firearm or cross-bow. I
know that I may raise any saftey concerns that I have about it by
contacting the Chief Firearms
Officer at 1-800-731-4000"

All this, and more, so I can keep my Rem700

TonyM <bcoyrecce@hotmail.com>
BC, Canada - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 19:00:11 (ZULU) (your host
address: 207.102.80.125)


Gentlem: Thank you for presenting the sniper history and such a
professional site. Many surly
will not understand the material available here; those who would condem it
are lacking in
education; those who would misuse the information found here are
un-American.

I came across this site while searching long range shooting and was very
please to find the
"Long White Feather" history here.

Rest Well,

Reginald
Reginald <ratkins@trib.com>
Casper, WY, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 19:06:54 (ZULU) (your host
address: 12.10.158.99)


Remington Model 700 VS-VS/LH (Heavy Barrel, Varmint Synthetic)

For all interested parties. As of noon today, Remington's consumer rep
assured me the Varmint
Synthetic, available in both left and right hand, 700 short actions, has
currently completed its
January/February production run and is presently being shipped to dealers
nationwide.
Furthermore, there are no plans to discontinue this model, contrary to
rumors which have
circulated conflicting information.

Benoist, Keith <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 19:42:46 (ZULU) (your
 host address:
207.174.108.120)


I finally broke down and bought a stoney point OAL and comparator.
Interesting to note that I
measured out 2.910 OAL to the lands using a 168gr A-Max. I guess Remington
plays it safe.
Anyway, I loaded up a batch of 168 a-max seated to my lands ogive
measurement minus .030.
The charge was 43.5 gr Varget and group size was .7. Velocity was 2671 Avg.
 I'm
experimenting with the A-Max. I usually shoot .5 - .6 with my 168gr MK
load. Anyone else try
the A-Max?
Breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 20:30:35 (ZULU) (your host address:
12.3.204.222)

Mark: I would think a traditional G suit would stick out like a sore thumb
in most cities. Is this a
city like NY, with very little vegetation? If so, things like rags and
trash bags would be less likely
to attract attention.
Karl: Bums are often robbed. Such a disguise seems ideal, but it would
present serious risk,
even more so if Mark were lying down--appearing to be passed out.
George <none@nospam.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 22:34:57 (ZULU) (your host address:
192.216.6.51)

Breakpoint, the A-max is a well balance nice shooting bullet however it has
 it's problems. The
early issue ones were a bit too ambitious in the long pointed snout. By the
 time the bullet
contacts the rifling it's off toward Jones in a lot of rifles. If you seat
it out it won't go in the
short magazine of the short action guns. Later on without much fanfare they
 changed the nose
and rounded the point so that it shoots much easier and more accurate.
I suspect the ballastics were altered also but haven't looked to see if
they have changed them in
their literature. A-max bullets are a bit thin skinned for large game but
work pretty well up to
deer size.
As a sniper round they are hard to beat if stopping the target is the
objective. A bit less
accurate than Sierra Match Kings but devistatinng in the meat department.
IF you have a long
action winchester or Savage or other good gun the old bullets would do fine
 but I don't think
they are on the market anymore.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 22:50:25 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)

Does anyone know where i can get a good deal on the Federal Match 175gr
ammo in .308?
I am currently paying about $1 a round and it is getting old, and fast.
I am open to people with ffl's willing to make deals, dealers, or mail
order/ internet sources.
Please help!

Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
san jo, rainafornia, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 23:58:03 (ZULU)
(your host address:
209.247.149.130)


Jeff, if you're getting your ammo from a local shop then try 1) other local
 shops, and challenge
them to beat the price you're getting now, 2) ammoman.com (78 cents/rd plus
 shipping, case
price) or other online dealers, and 3) Hoplite (as listed recently as a
source for the 168gr
Federal match ammo.) If switching brands is an option, the Black Hills
175gr match load (moly)
can be had locally for about 85 cents/rd. (case price including tax) or you
 can order the
non-moly for about 73 cents/rd through IBA (case price, but you'd also pay
shipping.)

Often you can get a better price by volume, which can be done by teaming up
 with other folks
who each want a case or more of the same fodder.

A few weeks ago when I was at the gun show atthe Fairgrounds, the dealer
there had the
Federal 175 match for something like $21/20. Ouch! Not a good deal.

Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
No rain today in San Jose, eh?, CA, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at
00:34:29 (ZULU) (your host address:
32.97.110.67)


Thanks Dave,
yeah, i almost called in 'sick' today so i could go play outside.
I will give ammoman a try, it sounds like a good deal but i will definately
 keep my eyes open.
Plus, if i buy out of state i dont get to pay tax!
If anyone in the San Jose area plans on buying some of the Federal match
.308 in 175 let me
know cause it would be interesting to see what deal we could get.
Later.
Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
San jo, sunnyfornia, today anyway, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at
01:03:02 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.247.149.130)

Breakpoint: if that's the only load you've tried with the A-MAX's so far,
I'd have to say that
you're on the right track here. Fine tune your charge weights and seating
depth a little and you
may improve enough on the load to match the performance of the MK's .

Each gun is different and your gun may or may, or, may not, exceed the
performance of the
Sierra bullet. Only time and a little experimenting will tell for sure.

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 01:11:05 (ZULU) (your
host address: 142.177.88.126)


Federal Ammo
For decent to good pricing on a variety of ammo youmight try Eric over at:
http://www.ammoman.com/
I have found his prices to be less then I can find locally here, plus he
has a section online of
odd lots. You can often pick up tracers or blanks at a greatprice.

The price you see is the price you pay. No $10 shipping plus $13 HAZMAT
fees or anything like
that. I have used him several times for cases of ammo and service has been
fine (no problems
or surprises).

You just have to mail, fax, or e-mail a copy of your ID to them first.
Orders are filled within 24
hours most of the time.

500 rounds of Gold Medal Match BTHP, 175Gr is $389. No tax, no shipping.
-Steve
-Steve <slhoenig@ucdavis.edu>
CA, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 03:25:00 (ZULU) (your host address:
169.237.13.103)


Are most of you gents still single staging your ammo? I've been
experimenting with my Dillon
RL-550 (loading 175 Sierra's with Accurate 2015, a short cut extruded
propellant) and I can't
see any difference in group size (average .5 to .7 at 100 meters)in my .308
 M700 Police
compared to the same ammo loaded single stage on my RockChucker. Time spent
 at the loading
bench is cut down considerably. I'm convinced. So Long RCBS.
dan <danr@acnet.net>
Deep South, Texas, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 04:33:27 (ZULU) (your
host address: 170.76.42.93)

dan:

What accuracy does the Dillon give for powder loading? I've hear, including
 Dillon's own
advertising of their match team, that match grade rounds can be had, but
powder loading +/- .5
grains seems like a rough, not match, load.

I load 300 win mag with the RCBS digital setup and love it, plus it
provides complete accuracy.
(complete meaning as good as I can shoot it, sub MOA)

A good autoloader would make things sweet, but I doubt the accuracy of a
progressive press.

All:
Can anyone recommend a good barrel wizard that can make a decent Reminton
700 Sendero
barrel for 300 win mag? Plenty out there, but who has fast turn-around
times, match accuracy,
and a fair price?

Thanx.

Shootin' through the thin air!

Hank <ninesoft2@earthlin.net>
Denver, CO, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 05:23:32 (ZULU) (your host
address: 38.27.84.227)


Amen !! Let's hear it for Dillon !! Have been loading 155 Amax's, 173
mil-match, and 175 Sierra
MKs for over 3 years on it with same or better results as Dan in TX . Of
course I am still using
the "evil" moly(won't EVEN start that again!! Moly DOES WORK !!) but with
Forster dies haven't
seen any degradation of accuracy (1/2 MOA at 200 yds, thats in 3 different
rifles) and my
loading time has been cut by 2/3's....at least. It does help to use Norma
or Lapua or IMI brass.
Federal brass just doesn't last. I do spend some time culling some of the
173's but overall the
Dillon (550B) has worked well. I like Varget but it doesn't meter as well
as BLC-2.

On another note, a few weeks back, Torsten mentioned a device he makes...
"recoil guide" for
pistols. Gotta admit it works well, even in my "Old Sig 220", thanks T !!!!
 Now if I could get
some work done on the "jerk" behind the trigger I might get some decent
groups at 1,000...then
again...if you can't practice that far out, you can't get better !! With
that said, any way to
practice at 500 for 1,000 ?
OUT HERE
Will <rogue308@mindspring.com>
Deep, South, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 05:41:17 (ZULU) (your host
address: 199.174.128.238)


Anyone know anything about BSA rifle scopes? I read something about them
awhile ago and
they sound decent even though they are cheap. And they have to be better
than tasco even
though they are slowly getting better.

And anyonehave any ideas on taking a 270 win andmoving the shoulder foward
so that there is
a neck length of .270" and a 40 degree shoulder.
Jed <clampet@writeme.com>
blain, pa, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 08:45:35 (ZULU) (your host
address: 192.156.68.35)


nice site, i have som fotos for you write me you wont be sory

sealsniper51@hotmail.com
Nick "sealsniper" kirkegaard <sealsniper51@hotmail.com>
cophagen, cophagen, Denmark - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 11:09:36 (ZULU)
(your host address:
195.181.216.180)


Hank-I've been loading match .223 on a Dillon for a year now, and the
Dillon powder measure is
just as consistant as either my RCBS or my Redding "Benchrest" measures.
I've a second Dillon
measure on the .45 conversion and it, too, stays within +or- .2 grain.
Fifteen years of
reloading, and my Rockchucker is now reserved for the calibers for which I
don't have Dillon
conversions. My .2 of a grain worth.
Celt <dand@foggfiller.com>
USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 12:26:54 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.163.7.233)

I have a 550 Dillon and load all my 223 stuff on it with excellent
results!! I tried the 308s but I
was getting to much bullet and neck run out so I quit using it for the
308s. I tried Dillon dies
and the Redding BR dies but it stayed the same. I read where the Palma team
 loads all their
ammo on the 550s so I know they work. I used Varget powder and it didn't
seem to meter to
bad I may have to try it again.

Has any one tried the new Lica 800s yet??
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 14:53:56 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.130)


I just called SWFA and they are expecting the Leica 800 rangefinder within
the next 2-3 weeks.
I have heard that before, but I hope it is reality this time. I ordered
mine back in early
December.

Michael
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
San Jose, CA, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 15:31:12 (ZULU) (your host
address: 63.192.208.6)


A PISTOL ISSUE

FYI everyone. Yesterday I attempted to ship two pistols VIA FEDEX. The
reason? UPS now has a
$30 surcharge, PER FIREARM, added to their already inflated shipping costs.
 In my case, this
would have come to about $75, if not more, to ship two firearms
cross-country to my brother.
Looking for an alternative, I called FEDEX to see if they shipped same.
Yes, I was told. Any
special conditions I have to meet, I asked. Same as anyone else, they said.
 FFLs on both ends,
ship to dealers only. Fine. I did all the legwork, had an FFL sent to a
dealer here, paid the
transfer fee ($10), then took the two pistols to FEDEX. Once there, as
always, the rules
changed. FEDEX essentially refused to ship two pistols, "Unless they can be
 disabled prior to
shipping." (This is a FEDEX policy, which, by the way, they do not bother
to notify you of if you
call the FEDEX 800 customer service number). Inquiries into the nature of
the definition of
"disabled", at the FEDEX counter varied. Finally a phone call was made to
an upper level
manager, whose opinion was that, "some part of the pistol has to be
removed, and shipped
separately." The wolf is at the door, people.
Be forewarned, brothers and sisters. I am struck by the irony of a
government which trains its
young men, and these days women, in the skills of marksmenship, yet
considers the previous
generation of those who have been similarly trained to be de facto enemies
of the state, simply
because they choose to pursue a love for something which that same
government inspired.
Benoist, Keith E. <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 16:09:01 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.174.108.14)


The A-Max's I have are recently purchased from Midway. They are the pointed
 - not the
rounded ones, and will no way ever fit in my DM magazine. If I seated these
 to SAAMI or mag
length, it would place the ogive too far away. That's OK though as my
intention was to load
singly, experiment and see if they would fly better than the MK. My real
issue is with Remington
and the 700P throat. Anyway, so far the MK is winning out but I just
started. Besides, I'm having
too much fun to give up!
breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 16:18:22 (ZULU) (your host address:
12.3.204.222)

Have any depts started using the Hornady A-max instead of the standard 168
hpbt. I saw the
work up Hornady did on these and seems you don't have to worry about over
penetration as
much.
Mike <Mikeroyexc@aol.com>
Florence, Mt, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 16:45:33 (ZULU) (your host
address: 205.188.193.156)

I have just bought a SR25 Match and I am planning on putting a Nightforce
scope on it. Here is
the qustion, were can I get proper instruction on hitting the broad side of
 a barn? Okay, what I
really am after is a shooting school that will train me in the basics of
getting the most out of
the Stoner. I am not a "sniper" or a LE type.

I am just a regular guy that likes to shot at far away objects. I live in
Pennsylvania and would
be willing to travel for the right program. If there is a perfect school it
 should teach me to
shoot and not treat me like a five year old with a expensive toy. I think
you guy's (gals) know
what I am refering to.

Thanks for your help,
Gregory Fields
Gregory Fields <greg.fields@mrigroup.com>
Lancaster, PA, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 16:59:46 (ZULU) (your host
 address: 208.170.180.90)


Gregory, to hit the side of a barn, every time, GO INSIDE THE BARN, then
shoot. There ya go,
problem solved. Sorry, couldn't resist. Sounds like a nice set-up. Front
sight, squeeze the
trigger. Repeat.

Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
Portland, Or, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 17:19:12 (ZULU) (your host
address: 209.156.133.2)


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

ALL - HAD A MAJOR POWER OUTAGE HERE IN INDEPENDENT HILL. MACHINES
DIED WHEN THE UNINTERRUPTABLE POWER SUPPLIES GAVE UP THEIR LIFE AFTER
ABOUT 1.5 HOURS. ANYHOW THE DATA DISK IN THE WEB SERVER GOT HIT....
AFTER MUCH THINKING, PRAYING, RECOVERY DISKS, ETC. HERE'S WHATS RUNNING.... COULD HAVE BEEN ALOT WORSE I GUESS..

SOME OF THE LAST POSTS IN THE ROSTER WERE LOST.... SORRY ABOUT THAT...

MARIUS - LEAVE THIS ENTRY IN THE ROSTER AS A MARKER......... SO WE CAN SLOWLY RESONSTRUCT IT...

KEN :(
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 02:22:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Sorry about the Roster folks but Ken did a HELL of a job getting even this much back!!! Hopefully Marius has more of the Roster saved and we can rebuild from there!

Sarge for the Sniper Country Staff
 

Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 03:13:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.245.243.106)

Gentlemen ( I use that term very loosely),

Someone explain how you use the Metric cam on an 3.5x10 M3 at ranges measured in yards. The windage 1/2 min. adjustments are giving me fits also, since I am so used to 1/4 min. clicks, but I can handle it. All I can figure to do is just subtract elevation clicks from the cam setting. Is it just a shoot and see thing? Here's a for instance, while shooting at 700 yds., I have to be three clicks below the 700 mark on the M3. Any hints? Anyone? Anyone?

thanks,

John R.
John R. <jrr051468@aol.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 03:49:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.23)

Scopes:

I have a question re: scopes and rings for the Savage 10FP I'm buying. I'm planning on shooting it at ranges under 600yds. at highpower matches and silhouette comps. My local range requires a scope to be set at 6 power for silhouette. I would like any advice on the best scope for the money. I have about $350 to spend. I'd like to know if a fixed power 6X would be OK for ranges to 600yds. or if a variable power is the way to go?

thanks
paul
Paul <mb_joe@yahoo.com>
woodside, ca, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 04:12:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.23.7.57)

SC Staff.. you should contact anyone who hasnt loaded the page yet, so they can retrieve the roster from their cache.
George <none@nospam.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 04:37:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.216.240.22)
John R. Sounds like that scope is screwed up. I'll take it off your hands for 50 bucks.

Just kidding..

Think about it..700 yards = 630 meters give or take a few meters. (Everyone whistle the theme song from jeapardy while John thinks about this.)

Out
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 05:18:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.171)

Anybody that has got any of the details that we've lost please email it to me in order for me to get it back in here, or at least the archives.

More from me later.

Marius
Webmaster
Marius Ferreira <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
RSA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 07:41:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 196.25.27.66)

Whoa! Fastest loading roster ever!

I am looking for some good reading on sniper team tactics & communication, on the internet or in print. Anything related to hand signals, map symbols, SOP's for covering the AO while one member rests, non-verbal communication while on final stalk, etc. If you could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. I have thoroughly read and re-read Plaster's Ultimate Sniper, and have learned much, but am looking for even more. Especially from all of the military men and women out there, as it seems that you would have the most experience with this (as opposed to the average long-range target shooter). Also, how important are these kind of things in competition, say, SMTC events? I read the accounts in the archives and they mostly talk about the events and the shooting aspect, but not the team aspect...any insight would be appreciated!
 

Thanks,
Brian

Brian Snider <bolt_308@yahoo.com>
OR, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 10:07:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.36.35.97)

Ken & Marius,

I note that you guys had a little problem tonight.

Luckily I had surfed SC on another browser before I started this one.

Check your emails. By going offline and forcing a non-connect refresh - I was able to retrieve all text for the current roster page back to somewhere around 13:00 yesterday afternoon. After that fraid I cant help ya.

I know how power failures and disk crashes can be. :-(

Hope this helps,
JT - Webmaster for Norcal Precision & Tactical Intervention <tenarius@memorableplaces.com>
CCCPalifornia, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 10:38:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.156.137.61)

JT: thanks for the info and cuts of the roster. If you could pull up that cached copy again - and view the source - cut that and mail it - would be alot quicker to restore the roster from pieces.

Hey - normally power outages aren't a problem. We have about 1.5 hours of unattended reserve power. After that, if someone is on site - the generator will carry us until Saudi Arabia freezes over.

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 12:29:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Buying a Stoner SR25, I am planning on putting a Nightforce NSX series scope on it. Now the question, where is a proper training facility to learn how to make the long shot? I would like to find a school close by, but i will travel a bit if needed.
The school should treat me like an adult and not like a child with a high priced toy. I think you guys(gals) know what I mean. I am not a "sniper" wannabee nor am I a L.E.O. Any help you all can provide is welcome. Thanks, Gregory Fields

Gregory Fields <greg.fields@mrigroup.com>
Lancaster, PA, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 13:45:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.170.180.100)

Does Remington still make the M700vs in 20inch short barrel? I know that they came back out with the M700vs in the 26inch barrel.
Ross <pwc464@aol.com>
Warrenton , Va, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:06:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.27)
I guess this got lost in the mess. We were talking A-Max bullets. I was wondering in any of the LE agencies are going to the 168s A-Max loaded stuff that Hornady puts out. It looks like it would solve the over penetration of the 168 HPBT.
Mike <Mikeroyexc@aol.com>
Florence , Mt, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:26:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.212)
I guess this got lost in the mess. We were talking A-Max bullets. I was wondering in any of the LE agencies are going to the 168s A-Max loaded stuff that Hornady puts out. It looks like it would solve the over penetration of the 168 HPBT.
Mike <Mikeroyexc@aol.com>
Florence , Mt, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:26:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.212)
Sorry........... don't know what happened I only clicked once.
Mike <Mikeroyexc@aol.com>
Florence, Mt, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:29:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.212)
Hey Guys,

Sorry to drag this down to politics again. I have never posted here before, but have kept up with the site for a long time. I decided to post this because I needed to vent and I think most of the people here share the same views that I have.

Did anyone catch the debate on CNN last night between the 3 GOP candidates? Talk about disgusting! Alan Keyes stood proud even in the face of ridiculous and irrelevant questioning by the panel. One of the members even tried to drag him down into a racial debate by asking him what he thought the four cops that were acquitted for killing that African man in NYC. Ambassador Keyes would not stoop to their level, however and simply said that he was not qualified to answer - that unless someone was present in the court room for the entire trial and had all of the facts of the case it was not their business to question the decision of the jury. The panelist then pushed harder, hoping to get SOME reaction out of Keyes by saying that at least 19 hits was excessive. The Ambasador simply said that the number was irrelevant, and again he was not there. He went on to say that our LE officers are out there doing a very difficult job, and we should stand by them. They should get the same fair treatment that any of the rest of America would expect!! I just cannot say enought about Alan Keyes and how impressed I was with his character. When he had something to say about one of the other candidates - he looked them directly in the eye and said it. He made mention of the obvious, disgusting, and unamerican (my words) media blackout on his campaign but did not seem bitter about it. One panelist even said (and I don't remember the exact wording) "Given the fact that you are probably not going to win, which of these other two candidates would you endorse?" What the hell is that? Keyes took it in stride. They asked him almost no relevant questions about campaign issues - it was almost like he is not even running. It was sickening.

George Bush Jr. meanwhile endorsed the development of so called "smart gun" technology and said he hopes that we are headed that direction. I guess that makes one of us. He also apologized for giving a speech at Bob Jones University and said that he regreted that he did not speak out against the "anti-catholic" view there. Come on. I can tell you that Bob Jones U is no more anti-catholic than a Republican is "anti-democrat". They may have different beliefs and convictions, may not agree with what each other say, and they may express those disagreements publicly but that does not make them "anti" anything! They are not out there killing catholics in an effort to wipe them all off of the face of the earth. I am very dissapointed in Gov. Bush for not having the balls to simply stand up and say "Look, I don't agree with all of the views expressed at Bob Jones. However, I am proud that my campaign stopped there. I'm proud that I had the opportunity to give that speech." Show some backbone Governor. Stand up for your rights.

The good Senator did not even have the courtesy to show up in person for this debate. He was present on a big screen TV via sattelite. He spoke poorly, stumbled over his own words, and when he did manage to put together a cohesive sentence it was nothing but pure indirect issue dodging self promoting Clintonese. Pathetic. By the way Senator, who the hell are you to tell me as a taxpayer that I cannot spend as much of my hard earned after tax money as I damn well please promoting the candidate of my conviction? Limits on contributions from individuals? This was still the home of the free last time I checked - but the folks in Washington are working on that aren't they. I don't see anyone trying to limit how much I can contribute to any other cause!!

Again, I apologize for the length and for going back to politics. Like I said though, I had to vent somewhere. This a great site and I have learned a lot here. Keep up the good work guys.
JHall <jhall@family-net.net>
Decatur, IL, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:53:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.0.57.16)

Does anyone have any experience with the new winchester mod 70 "stealth" rifles? Any help, stories, good or bad are greatly apreciated. Thanks, happy shooting.
Mike <mmbackpacker@aol.com>
yuma, az, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 16:05:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.195.192)
Gooch,

Can you chew bubble gum too? Just kiddin'. Seriously though, I've always been issued standard duplex tactical on my dept. rifles. I've had a rifle built and thanks to advice from Jerry Rice, it now shoots great (yesterday, here in South MS, 2.5" at 600 with GM). I recently put a 3.5x10 M3 Mil-Dot on it and the different adj. are taking some getting used to. I have no problem ranging using the mil-dot system, it was just that I figured that the meters setting would be closer to the yard range than it was. I had to move back to 750 to get on paper with one ck under the 700M setting, shooting high. Lot to learn, shall keep you updated...
 

Mike,

What over penetration problems? Surely you don't mean with the Sierra HPBT 168 GM load. Unless there is a wide periphrial (sp?) hit, over penetration is a problem I haven't seen or heard anyone complain about. The complaints are deflection that occurs when shooting through barriers such as glass or thin cover. I haven't found the A-Max to be as accurate as Sierras in any case. Could be just me though...

Anyone have a VA Beach Police Sniper patch they would part with? After Gunny's school down here in Waynesboro MS last year, they weren't available.

Good Hunting,

John R.
John R. <jrr051468@aol.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 16:57:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.174)

John R. Just rememeber that a fast way to convert meters to yards is to add 10% to the meter distance. 100 meters = 110 yards, 500 meters = 550 yards etc.

Gooch
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 17:09:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.168)

Gunny Carlos Hathcock

Just curious. Is anyone aware if there are any translated, published accounts of NVA or VC counter sniper teams who operated against Hathcock? I know there were such teams, but I'm wondering if any of the former authored their own accounts, and if so, are they available? It would be interesting, I should think, to learn what the former enemy thought of the man who was digging so many of them.

Thanks

KB

Benoist, Keith E. <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 17:26:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.45.211.163)

Well i got my tasco 10x42ss and got it mounted and zeroed for 100, but now i need some help.
I read the 'instructions' (if you could call them that) and have some questions about adjusting the eyepiece.
I am sitting here at work and do not have the manual, and i do not know the correct terms for stuff, so please excuse my ignorance.
I adjusted the rearmost adjuster on the eyepiece to get the mil dots in focus and noticed there is a large amount of adjustment where the mil dots seem to be perfectly focused. The manual says to adjust it all the way clockwise, then start backing it off until the dots come into focus, dont turn it any further. This is the proper adjustment, according to the scrap of paper.
The scope also has another adjustment a little forward of this and it is marked 10,25,50,100,and so on to 500, then it has a little infinity symbol. This seems pretty straight forward, if i am shooting at 500m i adjust the ring to 500.
However, when i was peering down range and would move my head, the cross hairs would move on the target. I was looking about 300m down range and i could get the reticle to move about a foot!
Have i adjusted the scope wrong? Am i a grommet? Is the front deflector shield not fully charged with ion particles?
where was i?........ oh yeah.
This seems like a huge margin of error if i cannot get my eyeball in exactly the same spot from shot to shot. Any assistance would be helpfull, and if anyone knows where i could get a detailed description and explanation of these adjustments i would be most gratefull.
Ps, if anyone will be at the sac match on sunday i will be there early to see if i can syphen some knowledge on this subject.
Thanks!

Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
San Jo, nice and sunny so farifornia, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 17:52:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.247.149.130)

*** NOTICE ***

It seems as if we've got basically everything back. The latest post I've got now is that for "Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 17:19:12", going right back to the beginning.

So please, those who still come up with something, if it is not later than this, don't send - we've got it. Thanks for the help - now I just need some time to actually get that into the format to post again. It is in the Reverse Roster format, so I'll have to do a bit of cutting and pasting to get it back in the normal format as well. If not tonight, most definately tomorrow night (my time)

On a more personal note, I am personally also only recovering now from losing my main 20G hard drive just over two weeks ago. Still finding small things here and there that need to be installed, tweaked, changed etc. Just some things from work and then I'll be going strong again - and hopefully the site as well, which have been too negledted lately.

More about that later.

Marius

*** NOTICE ***
Marius Ferreira <mferreira@intekom.co.za>
RSA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 18:45:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 155.239.198.225)

jhall,
Right on. - It is a shame that the Press takes more pride in forming our opinions than informing us as a people. You are right, Keyes is kept from us as if they are afraid of him...
Grogan <reptech@televar.com>
Republic, WA, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 18:49:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.8.144.158)
RE: yards and meters.
for me fastes way to get yard and meter conversion:
meters=0.9 x yards
yards=1.1*meters
HK <HenryK@marvineng.com>
LA, CA, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 19:04:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.165.39.11)
Guys,
I'm looking for anything I can find on the Steyr SSG69 sharpshooters rifle. Books , articles , links , parts/accessory sources etc. Also interested to hear from anyone using one. How do you like it , what you dislike etc. I just managed to get my butt scratchers on one and will hopefully be fitting it with an M1LR or M3LR.
Thanks,
Don
Don <tdfarmer@concentric.net>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 22:03:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.83.80.31)
Hi,
I am the creator of the Long Range Shooting tutorials/games that was posted here a few weeks ago. I have received alot of helpful input and
comments from people on this bulletin board. I just finished an advanced level in which you can engage moving targets using the ambush method. Take a look at it and tell me what you think. Due to popular demand I am working on a greatly expanded version of these tutorials/games which will be available on a CD. You won't have to connect to the internet, wait for it to download or worry about a plug-in. I can't make them any larger than they are now for the web...just too long a download time. As soon the CD is finished I will post the information on the web site.
Thanks again,
Karin Christensen
Karin Christensen <karinc@ccosmo.net>
Murrieta, CA, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 01:48:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.67.161.205)
Jeff. Here is the procedure adjusting your scope. The first step is to adjust the reticle. Follow the procedure as stated. Do not cut corners. This is the procedure for a Leupold but the idea is the same. Your eyepiece doesn't lock down but its the same deal.

? Look at a distant object (around 300 yards away) and allow your eyes to become focused on it. Quickly look through the scope at the sky or a blank wall and check to see if the reticle is immediately sharp and crisp. If it is, then no further adjustment is needed. If your eye has to re-focus on the reticle then proceed.

? Grasp the eyepiece and back it away from the lock-ring.

? Turn the eyepiece several turns so as to move at least 1/8". It will take this much change to achieve any measurable effect on the focus.

? Repeat step one. If the image is better, continue to turn the eyepiece in the same direction. If it is worse, turn the eyepiece the other way and repeat steps 1-3 until the image of the reticle is sharp and crisp immediately upon looking into the scope. Do this several times, taking the focus past the point of focus to ensure you have the clearest setting. Then lock up the eyepiece by screwing the lock-ring back to the eyepiece.

? Parallax is indicated by the apparent movement of the reticle to the target as the shooter moves his eye across the exit pupil of the scope. When the scope is correctly focused for a specific target, the image is precisely on the reticle plane, and no parallax is present if the reticle was focused properly.

? Many tactical scopes feature an adjustment for eliminating parallax. This adjustment is either an adjustment knob on the left of the scope (as viewed from the rear) or a ring on the objective lens housing. The purpose of this adjustment is to keep the target on the same focal plane as the reticle.

If your reticle isn't perfectly focused prior to adjusting the objective you will still have a little parallax when the target is sharp since the image of the reticle and the image of the target are still on different focal planes. If the target is crystal clear and you reticle still moves refocus your reticle a little until the movement goes away. DOn't touch the reticle adjustment again or you will start polishing a turd.

Remember, if you are moving your head around more than an inch or two you may see a little reticle movement even if everything is perfectly adjusted.

SOMEBODY put this in the Hot Tips/Cold SHots puleez!! THis is like the 10th time this has come up. Thankyuu..

Gooch

gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 01:58:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.154)

CANADA EXPORT BAN RESCINDED
-US authorities removed the export ban after they learned the 'missing' firearms weren't missing and in fact had not even left the US - so all existing permits have been renewed. The cause certain importers who import for LE agencies have open ended (and open numbered) permits to allow them to bring in firearms in at short notice throughout the year. Apparently Civil Servants on both sides panicked and the BAN came down with little thought or foresight!

Personal transfers are unaffected as they go through ATF and where not affected by the BAN

So no problems (phew!! my rifle is still in Jerry's shop)
and Brian we can still swap the pistols.

Denny - stock is on way I just got the check
email me if you want the barrel (it is in Jerry's shop)(I lost your email) He is in California as well so it might be easier?

Who ever emailed me about the HK91 it can't go to the US sorry!
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 02:46:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.129.118)

Karin'; Glad to have the news. Would sure be intrested in your expanded versions. Guys if you haven't tried these your missing a good time. Something to do on a Snow day! Lotsa good skill practice there! Karin's done a fine job on the program. You can learn and get better and quicker at Mil Dots there.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 05:42:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Hi Guys,
Read the sniper country review on the White Feather ammunition. I called Talon Mfg. and they still make it, only they now call it Talon Match, exact same load, different name.
My question, how does this stuff compare to the Federal Gold Medal Match 175's. Did anybody out there give this a heads up test, or want to venture an opinion?
Thanks,
Dan Reever
Danny Reever <dreever@supernet.com>
Arendtsville, Pa, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 12:23:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.157.109.76)
'Sup guys,

Questions, questions...
Anyone have a source for the Lapua .308 match ammo? Secondly, I would like to get some feed back on some favorite tips/techniques for removing copper from barrels. After 3 hrs. of cleaning, I get to wondering... Bolt? Sarge? Master da-Gooch? Has anyone tried the Iosso bore paste yet? Results?
 

Keep'em touchin',

John R.
John R. <jrr051468@aol.com>
MS, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 14:35:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.204)

I hope everyone heard about Alan Keyes' body guard. He had a gun licence for one state, but was arrested when he landed via airplane in the communist land of New York. It sure seems as though the media is covering this up. I can't find any further info on it.
 

sean <macdelta1@webtv.net>
houston, tx, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 15:47:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.240.200.110)

Danny,

I have shot the Talon White Feather 175 ammo against the Federal 175 Match, and it stacks up real good. It is a bit hotter than the Federal though. Accuracy was super good out to 500yds. I have not had the chance to try it at 1000yds, yet.

Later,
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 15:49:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.57)

Sean...

That's nothin' new...
... even if you have a New Your State pistol permit, you will get a felony bust for having a handgun in New York City.
In a city of 7,000,000+, there are only 500 non-police carry permits.

But... Senator Edward Kennedy (Dem. Mass) seems to be able to get through New York with his bodyguard (who carrys a full auto weapon), with no problems???
Presidential candidates are supposed to have protection... but I guess that only applys to white guys, and Lefties...

No priveledges for the rich Democrats??? Gimme' a break!

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 16:01:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.60)

Hey folks,
I am no expert at this copper solvent thing but its suprising how many folks dont know that the regular hoppes stuff doesnt take care of the copper, it only cleans out the powder residue,
I found some good and cheap stuff,
called Barnes copper solvent,
cost about 2.99 for a bit,
followed the instuctions and whammo it works like a charm,
I reccomend it,
just follow the instructions and make sure you swab your barrel with oil after using it as to stop the reaction of the Barnes,
this stuff was recommended to me by a fella that sells the high dollar stuff and says its better.
BTW
I appreciate all you guys out there who help us not in the know get the right answers thanks, its nice to come in here or hot tip and get answers.
SMB

SMB <mildot101@aol.com>
Land of OZ KS., USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 17:45:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.63.194.152)

SMB...

I don't know where you got your information about Hoppe's not removing copper... but, MAN, are you way off base.

You run a wet patch in a dirty barrel with Hoppes #9, and the green crap on the patch is COPPER!... you soak a barrel with #9, and the green crap is COPPER!

If you have a badly fouled barrel (from a 7 day trip to Storm Mountain), you can blug the barrel and let it soak for days (without the damage other chemicals cause), then just pour out the crap, and run a patch through it, and the barrel will be clean, without the rust or corrosion from the other agressive chemicals out there.

PLUS.........

It smells so great!!!

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 18:46:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.60)

1) Thanks for the hints & tips about the problems this newbie was having with vertical stringing (I haven't tried any real distance shooting in over 10 years), it helped a great deal!
2) Bear with me if I get the terminology wrong but I'm looking now to buy a "stock sock" that I can use when shooting. I've heard of homemade varieties using leather bags filled with shot, socks filled with plastic beads, etc. Does anyone manufacture anything like this commercially? If so, whom?
3) I wanted a relatively inexpensive semi-auto for fun distance shooting (yes, I know just about any good bolt gun will easily outshoot most semi-autos). I ended up buying a Romak-3 (Romanian FPK Dragunov lookalike) in 7.62x54. Using 1977 Russian 147gr 'silvertip' ammo it shoots 1 MOA off the bench and I can consistently keep my shots inside an 18" circle at 600yds using the Russian PSO 4x scope. Others have also reported decent accuracy with this rifle. After reading about poor Dragunov accuracy at this site I must say I'm surprised that my rifle will shoot this well (especially considering my rusty skills and poor eyesight) and am at a loss to explain the performance discrepancies. Any ideas or comments???
Thanks again for all your help!...
Tom McClimans
Tom McClimans <tomac42@earthlink.net>
Caldwell, Idaho, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 19:15:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.13.113.1)
I saw a post regarding a "general" rule of thumb for ambient temperature differences moving your zero. It was on the lost part of the archives and it disappeared before I copied it down. Anyone remember what is was? and if it was for a .308?
Thanks-I want to go over my logs and check it out for myself to build up my rifles data card.
Mictac <Mictac@AOL.com>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 19:34:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.213)
Hey Pablo,
I am talking bout the Hoppes that comes with all the cheap cleaning kits, it is a powder solvent, I cleaned and cleaned with it but still copper fouled, so I bought the barnes ans 10 minutes later I was done
I just think it is good stuff and cheap.
there is also the hoppes which is the copper stuff, is there a diff?
I used the hoppes in my rifle (dont know if it was #9 or not) and found it to be great at pulling the black powder out but nada for the green,
I just thought the barnes was good stuff for the price,
but hey nothing brings back memories like the great smell of hoppes!!!
everytime I smell it I think of my itty bitty shooting days : )
adios
SMB
SMB <mildot101@aol.com>
Land of OZ KS., USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 19:54:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.63.194.180)
Anyone have any experience with the new Sigarms STR 970. I have yet to see one in person and was wondering if anyone has any personal reviews. I have owned numerous pistols by Sig but have no experience with there long gun line.Just wondering how they compare up to Rem. pss and similar models.
ad <adsjunkbox@mindspring.com>
al, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 22:13:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.134.65)
Anybody out there with a mechanical drawing of Rem's clipslot as used on their 40XC to allow loading with stripper clips?
I understand the Chandler's have such a drawing in DFA #1. I'd love to see a copy. Better yet, anyone out there with a rifle so configured in the Portland/Vancouver area? I'll buy you lunch if you'll let me examine your rifle & measure it. Thanks in advance,
Jim
Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
Portland, Or., USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 22:22:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.204.24)
Regular Hoppes #9, as you can buy now, does virtually nothing to remove copper. (Sorry, 'Lito, but it really doesn't...) Hoppes BR9, however, does an excellent, safe job of removing copper, and indeed can be safely left overnight in the bore, unlike some others (Sweets and S.C. Copper Remover coming to mind). Another excellent choice, my favorite in fact because it is faster than BR9, but not harsh like the others named, is Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber. It comes in a plastic bottle, unlike BR9, so if you knock the thing over, it's not time to call the EPA either.

Regular Hoppes #9 does a fine job on powder fouling, and removing paint from barrels and stuff (like an H-S Precision stock, or Leupold scope). I suppose the type of paint might be key here. Just don't expect it to turn the patches green (from copper).

Iosso bore paste works very well indeed. I keep it as part of my cleaning stuff, along with solvents, U.S. Arsenal patches (the best), a good bore guide with solvent port (nice to use when you have a bottle with a pour spout/tip thing), and Dewey coated rod.

See you northern Kalifornia fellers at the Long Range Tactical match tomorrow, Sunday 3/5. No sighters, no bullshit, don't get there late and expect us to watch you walk to the line. (If I'm late, I will regret this last part...)
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Radioactive, CA, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 23:38:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.162.49.128)

Pablito -

Varget. I think I saw a comment here a few days ago from you to the effect that Varget was just a bit slower than 4064. Can you confirm this for me? Unfortunately, none of my manuals show Varget. I really need to replace some of my older ones.

If Varget is slower than 4064, I'd like to work up a load for .30-06 Ackley Imp with the 155 Palmas. My manuals show a max load of 4064 at about 3000 fps with a 150 bullet in .30-06 and I'm hoping to get 3150-3200 with the AI.
Pat T <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 00:19:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)

Will...

I'm not about to start a pissin' contest over cleaning gook, but I've got a gallon plastic milk jug full of green patches on my cleaning bench, if you'd like me to send them C.O.D. so you can see them, just give me your address... and I just ran another wet patch through a new stainless barreled rifle I'm breaking in... and it came out GREEN... it's not the fastest, or the most aggressive solvent, but it doesn't damage the metal or the barrel, if you leave it in over night.
Lemme' know where to send the green patches :)

Pat Tidwell...

"Varget. I think I saw a comment here a few days ago from you to the effect that Varget was just a bit slower than 4064. Can you confirm this for me?"

Yup... just get the 50th anniversary edition of the Sierra manual. You will find that 308 loads are typically .5 to 1 grain over the 4064 loads for the same velocity, and in the .223 with heavy bullets, it is about .5 grains more.
My personal experence confirms it (for what little that's worth).
I've also found that it's very tolerant of heavy loads with heavy bullets... shooting a 190 SMK @ 2600 with no signs of pressure (no, I won't tell you the load, but I think a few others on this site have done the same).

The 11th Speer, and the 4th Nosler don't have Varget... there have been a few new manuals in the past year or so, and they should have it also. I think the new Hornady has it.

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 00:53:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.45)

On the copper thing........

Thanks to these nice young men on the Duty Roster, I have avoided any copper build up in my new fire sticks by doing the proper break-in procedure. That made my normal anal type cleaning procedure much simpler.

But on my pre-Snipercountry sticks I simply did the following without even looking to see if they were badly fouled, amde the assumption that they were:

Plugged barrel and poured in regular Shooters Choice. Let sit for one hour. Poured out, but saved. Next I ran 10 wet Shooters Choice patches through. Soaked a wire brush and did 15 or 20 strokes. Ran another wet patch through then a dry patch. It was fairly clean, not much green. Then in at room temperature, I ran 2 soaked patches of Sweets through followed by a thoroughly soaked nylon brush with Sweets. Let set 15 minutes. Ran dry patch through. Ran 2 wet patches of Shooters through again followed by a dry patch. No green at all. Ran 2 alcohol patches through followed by a dry. Ran 2 oil patches through followed by a dry. Did this to all my sticks and in addition went through the entire breakin procedure again.

That's how I done did it.
 

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 01:03:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.59.230)

if you have a very severe case of cooper fouling,plug your chamber VERY tightly,mix 50% ammonium hydroxide and 50% rubbing alcohol in a small squirt bottle,add a penny or copper jacketed projectile to start the reaction,pour it down your bore,it will fizz like crazy,don't leave it more than 10 min.pour it out,clean it with a regular bore solvent to stop the reaction.don't leave it long or it will start to eat your barrel.only use this method if your bore is severly copper fouled,and not every time you clean it.you will have a shine you won't believe.
outta here.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony W. <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 01:44:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.25.254.106)
i am thinking of buying a long gun and am torn between the remington
700 pss/ remington 700 vs or the savage 110fps. I am very comfortable with the .308 caliber and want to stay with it. I also saw a remington 700 ltr (?) at a gun show with a leupold vari-x 3 scope for a bout 950$ dont know if that is a good deal or not would appreciate any and all input fromthe experts before i spend money on something that wont make me happy and i won have confidence i shooting. you can email your advice to terry6715@msn.com if you have any other weapon systems in mind i would appreciate input in those too, however my wife wont allow me to spend too much money!!
terry <terry6715@msn.com>
TARENTUM, Pennsylvania, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 01:58:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.10.63.98)
Ken,

I also read the American Gunsmith article on Microlon Gun Juice. Sounded too good to be true so I called the guy and ordered some. Because its components evaporate at different rates, he only sells it in 1 oz. bottles. $10/bottle. If you buy 4 or more, the price drops to $8/bottle. He claims that they have put over 26,000 rounds of .17 cal. through a barrel at 7,000fps, and the barrel shows absolutely no wear!!!!!!!! As the old Missouri saying goes: Show me! Will let you know how the stuff works on some of my toys. It's also supposed to be a great lube and corrosion preventer for darned near anything.
Doc <doc@fidnet.com>
The balmy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 03:09:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.216.205.99)

Oops!
Correct e-mail address is: docs@fidnet.com
Doc <docs@fidnet.com>
The balmy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 03:13:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.216.205.99)
Kevin: The export situation was the result of Lloyd Axeworthy asking the US to suspend issuing export permits until he could figure out what was going on.

The NY Times article was full of bull shit. They were claiming it was feared a lot of the guns were finding their way back into the US through the black market. Why would a dealer go through all of this permit process if they were going to do something illegal ? It doesn't make sense. I can't imagine any smart crook wanting to leave a very well documented paper trail back to himself.

As far as the import permits go, they aren't actually open ended or numbered. The permits themselves are good for only 6 months for the specific number of goods that are to be imported into Canada.

This whole situation is a result of an American demand (for import and export permits). For a dealer in Canada it takes approx. 3-4 weeks to have an import certificate authorized. It then tkes at least that long, if not longer, for the American export certificate to be issued. This type of delay can cripple a business if it can't acquire sufficient inventory to provide to its customers in a timely basis.

The Firearms people at Foreign Affairs and International Trade are actually great guys. They suggested you pad the numbers of goods you were looking to import, so that you can draw against that amount at some point without having to go through "the dog and pony show" all over again when you run out of inventory and need more.

I believe the American export document is good for a year, so the dealer (or whoever)can draw against the padded amount while waiting for their new permits to be issued. This eliminates a lot of the down time having to wait for the paperwork to come through.

Some distributors and dealers have taken this to the extreme, however, and that is why all the fuss was stirred up. If the whole process was more efficient and didn't take so much time to complete, there would never have been a problem to begin with.

I don't believe I've ever told anyone here on this board that I'm a firearms dealer and a Hornady distributor. When I spoke to Hornady on Tuesday, they claimed the US State Dept. never told them to not to send for export permits to Canada. As far as Hornady was concerned, it was business as usual.

Just my very long $0.02 worth on the subject.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Canada - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 03:50:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.97.26)

RE Ghillie suits in the inner city.

Thanks to those who posted and emailed advice, especially those who recommended scent killers to get around dogs.

I can see some clarification is in order. I work an inner city precinct in one of America's most populated cities, but we don't really have the tenement buildings and endless concrete that I would think New York has. There are many run down and abandoned houses, and they have usually overgrown yards. There are also many vacant lots.

The targets would usually be drug dealers rather than robbers and such. We are trying to observe drug deals, not catch robbers by being the victims.

We have had good success observing both in uniform and in plain clothes on drug dealers. We hide in bushes, in abandoned houses, in plain cars, and between houses.

The criminals are adapting to our tactics. They know from trial testimony the types of places we hide in. A few seem to be choosing their locations with an eye to thwarting us.

We don't want to ask citizens to let us into occupied homes because we are concerned about retaliation against them.

Back up would be very close. At least one guy would be dedicated to having my back as I observe and transmit to the take-down team, but those tactics are subject to change if I learn a better way.

I would especially like any info from those who have used a suit like this, particularly info on realistic distances. I think three yards is way too close. It would probably be impossible to broadcast info to the take-down team without being heard by the target. Three yards, nine feet, is smaller than the rooms most of us have our computers in. I have been that close, when somone wandered by, but all I could do was stay quiet to avoid being compromised.

Again, ALL info and opinions are welcome from EVERYONE. Put your two cents in and then look for more spare change.

Thanks, and Semper Fi
 
 

Mark Johnson <markj12pct@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 05:36:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.69)

25th.inf. Div. 69-70
2nd. class of sniper school Veit. Nam
James Remmel <KC848@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 17:10:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.199.146)
The Chandlers list a new book called "Sniper One". Anybody heard about it yet or have any info on what it contains?
TR <BOLTGUNZRUL@aol.com>
Portland, OR, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 18:51:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.67)
Mark,

Hey man, if you're crawling around in vacant lots, and in overgrown yards where the drug dealers are doing their deals then be sure to look out for the used needles.

Later,
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 00:22:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.205.53)

I finished "Sniper One" a few weeks ago. It's a novel by Roy Chandler (the Colonel's brother) about a Marine sniper who operated in Iraq during the Gulf War. The insertion team discovered some items of interest while in the hide and several years later, return to recover said items. Its an interesting read…not quite on par with Stephen Hunter's "Point of Impact" but then, that's the best damn book I've read in years! Sniper One contains some interesting tidbits and makes several veiled references to the Chandler Sniper (rifle) throughout the book. SSGT "Clicker" Bell, the book's main character, uses the Barrett M82A1 as his main rig but manages to con Colonel Rock (AKA Norm Chandler) out of one of his precious rifles in a mere 3 weeks. The rest of us mortals must wait 14 months! be safe.
 

Bill 0294, Clearwater, FL <lhardin1@netscape.net>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 02:12:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.92.204.249)

Hello:

I have a guy who needs a 34" .338 blank. He says his H-S 26" 338 win mag is a thousand yarder, head shots on hogs at that range plus. I guess I never considered a 338 win mag as a contender for the thousand yard. 338 Lapua, yes, much more powder behind the lead to push it to the velocity necessary to attain a trajectory thousand yarders are looking for. hmmmm...

Pat(mrbullet):

I'm almost at D-day here, still deciding on the caliber of choice, want a bore that I can reach out and talk to somebody, but would also like the chance to take some meat home too!! 260Rem is lookin better and better, is at the top of the list followed closely by my HTR's (.308). They are closing in on 1/4 MOA as an average score, and I make a lot of 'em, I know you have shot both calibers, you love 'em both, just gimme some input. If I go with the 260 and shoot the 142's, will I be giving up accuracy on the 120's?? can I make up for it on headspace?? would it be easier to go with a SS, or would a BDL be the way to go?? You know a close third choice is the 7-08........... and by the way, aren't you about tired of this winter, so much snow and cold?? heheh , I'm supposed to do the coyote hunt thing St. Patty's weekend, should be fun, get to see the old man for a day or so, maybe I'll give ya a ring
 

JR <westernpump@sullybuttes.net>
rapid city, sd, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 03:17:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.34.9.83)

Say you guys, am I the only one from Sniper Country attending the Woodchuck and Egg Shoot in North Carolina. Let me knnow if any of you studs are going to be down there????????
Theres prize money to be won, and I happen to be on vacation that week and my lovely wife told me to get the hell outta Dodge!! (And you guys wonder why I love her so much - after she gives me the money to go and have a good time. You guys dont think she will be having a better time - do you??)

al o.
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Sunny, Glorious, , O-hi-er, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 03:33:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.144.4.177)

About the .338 Lapua: Shooting Times did a comparison of this caliber
with some others I don't recall. What I do recall about their test is that the .338 Lapua was the very least impressive calibre of the 3 or 4 they tested. Makes me wonder why so much money was spent developing it for 1000yd shooting when other more common American calibers do way better. Statistically speaking.
sven <svenska50@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 03:52:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.174.99.181)
Copper fouling,

You know there are a lot of different ways to remove the stuff. I personally prefer Hoppes #9BR to do the dirty work. Although you can add industrial strength ammonia to regular #9 and that also works. I have been using an electralisis system by Outers recently (last two years) and it works just fine.
I do however do not totally clean out my bore since doing so changes my POI.

Went paint balling Saturday and had a total blast! You really can sink some $$ into these paint guns.

One of my recent thoughts have been on getting a new striker spring for my M700. Can anyone tell me with some certainty that a heavier spring reducing the lock time actually improves group size? I just can't seem to get anyone at the ranges to give me any difinitive answers. Yes I'm another accuray freak.

One last thing to those so inclined, DON'T FORGET TO VOTE!!

Semper Fi!!
Bravo Kilo out.
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 06:03:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.77.71.162)

any ideas out there for an after market stock for a Savage 112 bvss. Preferably fiberglass or synthetic. Please e-mail me with any ideas and if possible a price or price range.
Thanks,
Zach
Zach <buckskin52@hotmail.com>
pa, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 06:23:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.166.160.51)
Hello all,

I am new around here and realize this could open the proverbial can of worms but I would appreciate any input or advice you could give me. My question is about Texas Brigade Armory's rifles. I am considering an M40A3 and would be interested in hearing any comments or opinions on thier rifles.

Thanks in advance,

R.A. Head

R. A. HEAD <RHEAD@REDSHIFT.COM>
CARMEL, CA, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 06:51:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.204.197.48)

Bad Karma,
I've been paintballing for awhile now,and yes it's a real blast.some of the new striker springs,ecspecially the heavier Wolff springs will eventually cause sear bite,or at least a little galling of your cocking piece and or sear,stick with a factory replacement.
Al O,
I'll be there.see ya 1 Apr.you think there is something fishy about having it on April Fool's Day?
outta here.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony W. <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 11:26:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.45)
Bad Karma;
As for the heavier bolt springs, I have used the 28# spring, factory is 24#, in a couple of my rifles with no ill effects but with no improvment in accuracy that I can see. I tried the 32# spring but I felt a little vibration that I did not like. Any of the heavier springs will increse the cocking effort and I am sure the 32# spring would increse the wear on the cocking cam. I think that the heavier springs would be a mistake if you are going to use these on a tactical rifle as they would slow your repete shots due to the incresed cocking effort.
Just my two cents worth.

Jerry
Jerry Rice <nor-cal@worldnet.att.net>
American Canyon, CA, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 16:03:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.72.65.229)

Guys, went and shot with the Mudville Militia this weekend. Great bunch of guys. I wont say it was wet out htere but I had to go back into the field and find my boots that were sucked off my feet by the quickmud. LOL Just kidding. Pat Tidwell, you have got to go to this shoot and have some fun. I shot my Norcal 300 Win and once I have all the zeros down look out. The Sierra Program said I would need 31moa to hit at 1000 yards. I used 30 because my 900 yard data was over the head. I still was high into the head. 28moa would be just right. Before anyone jumps on me for God only knows why, the chronograph clocked the 220's at 2750fps after I set off 68.5grains of RL22. The rifle shoots little bitty groups with that load.

It was nice to put faces to the guys that regularlly post here.

Well back to slings.

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 16:24:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.213)

Bad Karma...
What Jerry Rice said!! Twice!

If you think lock time is a problem, then consider going to one of the light weight titanium firing pins... you will gain more from a light pin, than a heavy spring. But the difference between 2 milli-seconds, and 2.2 milli-seconds... I don't think it will make any difference either way.

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 16:30:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.18)

Jr.
If you build the 260 you should have no problems with the 120s or the 107s. Most I taked to say they shoot better than the 142s or the 140s. I have stayed with the 142s because of my long range shooting. I tried some 120s and they shot into .4s when the 142s were in the .6s but I couldn't use them for the 100 and 200 yard ranges because the point of impact was different and I didn't want to be screwing around with that all the time. I have been shooting all this last week and a half, everyday, comparing the 308 and the 260 to one another. I have been shooting cold bore and groups from 400 to 700 yards. Both rifles have turned in some impressive groups and some average ones but the key is the windage adjustments to start off the 260 takes 1 MOA less adjustment at 500yds and then only needs .5 MOA for each 100 to 700yds. The 308 needs a full MOA between each 100yds. The other thing is the groups are tighter on the 260 than the 308 from 500 on out and I believe this is because it is less effected by the wind drift. I have good loads for both and very seldom have much over a .5 MOA vertical spread at any range. I don't think you can go wrong with either but I still have to favor the little 260 its much more forgiving and makes me look better(HA). Let me know what you decide.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 17:42:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)
All:

NOTICE: sometime later this afternoon - the Range is going to go cold for say - about 30 minutes or so. We're gonna knock our T1 down and activate more channels. That's so you Hogs can suck the roster down alot faster :)

Sorry for inconvenience.... go do some real work while you're waiting.

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 18:07:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.172.42.2)

Guys: this isn't a "long range" post, but I think you'll like it anyway. The Glock experiment is hereby over. I decided about 8 months ago to shoot the thing and carry it, and not clean it until it started to jam. Just to see how much I could "get away with". Well, I have a number for that now. I can shoot (haven't counted the EXACT leftovers yet) between 2500 and 3000 (I'm guessing about half way) over 8 months, carrying every day, and not have a jam. I did have some this weekend (the very first from this pistol!!!), although I question if it wasn't due a little to the use of Nato ammo rather than my +p+'s. No time to load lately. It seems that when the Glock needs cleaning, it lets you know. There were 5 or 6 jams out of the 100 used. Needless to say, I'm impressed. Now to do the same thing with one of those nifty Wilson Combat CQB's.......

I've not left you guys, just been a little too busy to post (NEVER too busy to read though!). Good luck!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Still alive in Cedar City, Utah, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 18:58:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)

Pablito;
I don't have much experience with the light weight firing pins but I did put a Tubb firing pin into a customers 25-06 that was shooting in the 3's and 4's and it went to a 1 1/2" rifle. He brought the rifle back and I changed it back and the rifle went back to shooting in the 3's and 4's. I don't know why it made such a bad change and I don't care but needless to say I do not install the light weight firing pins anymore. I am sure this does not happen every time but this is what happened to me.
Just my two cents worth.

Jerry
Jerry Rice <nor-cal@worldnet.att.net>
American Canyon, CA, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 23:28:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.72.103.254)

All: Okay roster hogs! We oughta be rockin' alittle faster now.

Enjoy!

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 23:45:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Jerry Rice...

That is my own opinion too. My feeling is leave the firing pin alone.
There are so many guns coming out of the custom shop that are shooting in the .2" to .3" range, with standard pins and springs, that if the gun isn't shooting well... look some place else.

Put my two cents in with yours.

'lito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 23:53:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.71)

Modest Mike Miller, the un-Dude, using a new rifle with unknown "real" zeroes, in the rain and the wind at Sacramento Valley on 3/5/00, forgot to mention that he scored 3rd out of 23 or 24 shooters, in his FIRST TIME at this match. Oh yeah, he just had foot surgery too.

Way to go Mike! To the rest of you who only read his posts, YES, he can shoot too. Please come see us at the next match, which happens the first Sunday of each month at 0800. Dee Turner and Dan Schmitz did another fine job of running things. The 600 yard head shots (at one stage) were a neat twist on the normal competition.

Bad Karma, we hope to see you there soon.
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Radioactive, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 01:27:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.14.52.225)

.260 Rem vs. 6.5x55
 

I see that the .260 Rem has popped up as a subject here once again. Cool. I am a major fan of 6.5mm in general and have had some uncanny luck with one of my Sweedish Mausers: .7 MOA @ 100 yards out of a butcherized...um, sporterized...M96. Not bad for a gun made in 1903. It likes 140 MKs on top of a very HOT load of H4831. How hot? 2,900+ FPS from a 29" barrel. Pretty danged hot, I'd say.

Sooo, for those of us that are already tooled up and experienced in loading for 6.5x55 and are interested in building a long-rage 6.5mm gun from the ground up, and think the Sweed cartrige is already one very fine cartrige, whats my motivation for going to .260?
 

Oh, and a quick update on the 700PSS From Hell : The rifle, now newly bedded in Marinetex, has gone to the range for two weeks in a row without an appreciable change in zero. This is to be comapred to how it worked in the OEM HS Precision with standared machined bedding where I had to chase the zero across the target from week to week. It had moved 3.5 MOA in three outings and seem to be
accelerating when my milling machine and I interviened two weeks ago.
5-shot groups are still holding steady at about .75 MOA and they are at the same spot on the paper each time . Now I have a rifle I can work with. Thanks for the help, guys.
 

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Columbia, in the still-Confederate-flaged state of,, SC, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 01:49:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)

Mike Miller

I've got Sacramento on my schedule, probably in May. I'm committed here for the first weekend in April.

I'm trying to work your June class in New Mexico into my budget. When's the cutoff date?

Pat T
Pat Tidwell <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 02:29:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)

WHOA!!!

I connected via DSL last week and, with the site improvements, actually load this site within not more that 3 seconds!!!

Way to go, KEN!!! Your changes decreased load time dramatically!!!

The rest of you guys - if you can get DSL, I recommend it highly. Compare it to subsonic vs. supersonic! It certainly makes for faster, less frustrating navigation. Definitely worth the extra dinero.

Sorry for the digression...now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

Semper Fi!
Roger E. Lays <rlays@zbzoom.net>
PA, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 02:29:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.67.120.227)

The "Mudville Match" on March 5, 2000 was won by "Wills" with a score of 282 of 360 possible, excellent shooting under the circumstances. The conditions were very much befitting the match's nick name "Mudville". Temps in the high 40's. The ground wet from about a month of consistent rain, then Sunday, it rained. To make sure the rain was well distributed on all of the optical surfaces, the wind was blowing about 10 mph from 7-8 o'clock for most of the match. Based on personal experience, the only way not to fog either my glasses, or my scope, or both, was not to breath (ever). That left the view through the scope looking very much like looking through a wet shower door. Good shootin' "Wills".

You folks should come shoot with us, first Sunday of the month 0800 at Savramento Valley Shooting Center. While we can't promise the same set of "ideal conditions" for all the matches they are fun, and a great learning experience.

Dee

Dee Turner <deeturner@jps.net>
Roseville, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 03:20:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.63.224.190)

Found the load for the Federal Match 168's in the archives. Anyone happen to know what load Federal's using for the 175's? And are they still claiming that it's a blend.
Thanks

Danny
Danny Reever <dreever@supernet.com>
Arendtsville, pa, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 03:49:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.157.108.246)

I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PURCHASE A REMINGTON PSS NEW IN BOX FOR 650
(692 WITH TAX ETC.) I DONT KNOW IF I SHOULD JUMP ON IT IR LET IT PASS.
I'M LOOKING FOR SOME INPUT FROM THE PRO'S ON THIS(BIG MONEY ON MY COPS BUDGET).
 

E-MAIL: TERRY6715@MSN.COM FOR YOUR INPUT (WHICH IS GREATLY APPRECIATED)
terry <terry6715@msn.com>
TARENTUM, Pennsylvania, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 04:24:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.10.65.146)

I read the duty roster regularly -- lots of good info. I don't normally post but but I think its worth while to point out that Clinton and company are putting on the big push for legislation to shut down gun shows and mandatory licensing or worse. Now is the time to write, email or call your senators and congressman or congresswoman. If you don't have a name or address you can pull the information down from www.senate.gov and www.house.gov. If your senators and representatives don't think that you care, they are going to follow the politically expedient path of least resistence. Its up to us.
Jored <ljorgens@ix.netcom.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 05:24:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.30.108.166)
Tony,

Do not... REPEAT DO NOT USE AMMONIUM HYDROXIDE MIXED WITH ALCOHOL TO CLEAN YOUR BORE!
When I was in school ten years ago, I worked as a technician in at the Latrobe Steel Research & Developement metallurgy lab. That sounds ALOT like some of the stuff I mixed up to ETCH THE GRAIN BOUNDAIES ON POLISHED SAMPLES OF STAINLESS STEEL. You should see what it looks like under a microscope!
Steve <hockyref@bellatlantic.net>
warming up in, south west Pa, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 05:44:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 151.201.122.42)

Danny...

Fed doesn't use blended powder, and never has. Nor does any other commercial loader (including the small guys, like Corbin).
They use bulk, non-canister powder. Federal has three "certified" powders for the .308 that they use, depending on what's available. One is a non-canister equivelent of IMR-4064... I can't speak to the other two.
They don't blend powders... they buy a batch (a few rail car loads), make tests for pressure and velocity, and then run the entire lot... making tests at intervals in the day, throughout the run.

There are no "Magic Blends"... just plain ol', plain ol' powder!

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 10:56:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.36)

To Tom Simpson, re. .260 vs. 6.5X55.

The .260 fit in the Rem M700SA wich is "US-standard".

In "any" other action I'd go for 6.5X55 due to the availability of factory matchammo. On this side of the pond 6.5X55-matchammo even outnumbers the 308win. The regular Lapua 139gr "diesel"-load tracks the 300wm/220 cam on a Leupold M3 perfectly.

TorF
 

TorF <torf@aftenposten.no>
Oslo, - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 11:21:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.212.93.33)

Ok guys one more time and Ill let it go
Anyone seen or heard anything on the new Sig Arms STR970. Cant find much info other than whats on there own site. I would like any info on price range, accuracy, and comparison to other rifles like the pss. Looks pretty nice. Anyone seen or heard any reviews.
ad <adsjunkbox@mindspring.com>
al, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 14:03:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.131.204)
Damn, did that download fast! Over 4000fps. Congrats SC.

On the firing pins and springs, I had a .75MOA gun (factory stock 700VS .243WIN) and a Wolff 28# firing pin upgrade(?) opened it out to 1.5MOA at 100-400Y. So I swapped it back. On a different gun (700P .308WIN) the same Wolff 28# spring improved a 1.25MOA gun to .75MOA and it's still performing that way at 100-1000Y (conditions stable). The 700P dryfire sounded dead prior to the install. The 243 was audibly crisp. Moronic Luck. Shoot and see. The interior bolt surface is unreasonably rough on some guns and finished better on others. Shouldn't matter if pin and spring tolerances are correct with no excessive internal sidewall contact. Be aware with aftermarket spring fit.

Even more boring than that, the collar on another firing pin on one of my 700's was galling on the interior bolt sidewall near the pin stop shoulder where there was an extreme burr where the ejector plunger spring hole cuts through near the firing pin stop shoulder. We were looking to the cause of inconsistent group flyers with different shooters and the same gun. We figured this excessive burring caused inconsistencies so I cleaned it up. Group flyers disappeared. Pin would have probably worn the burr eventually and cured this with time since it is harder. Part of the break-in process I presume. Check it with a bore scope if experiencing flyers.

I've just received a Tubb Speedlock firing pin with Wolff spring to experiment with in different guns. The supplied spring was larger DIA and binds on the bolt walls going in. Swapped it for another Wolff and all fits better now. Wrong supplied spring I figured. I'd rather have the forward pin maintain pin alignment than the spring with sidewall interference. I hope I have better luck at the target with the Tubb setup than some have encountered. Tain't shot it yet but it sounds purdy.

To,
Mike (the Undude), it was good shooting next to ya, and congrats.
Wills, congrats. Both of you stay home so we can place higher.

Cheers,
Kenya (putting the anal in over-analyzing guns)
Kenya <kenya_sheutte@yahoo.com>
mudville, supercalifragilistic, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 14:46:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.241.147)

To Pat Tidwell:
I can answer your question to Mike Miller. I am the Phoenix based co-ordinator for the American Shooting Academy, the home site for the course at which Mike Miller and others will be instructing.
The signup deadline for the June rifle course in New Mexico has no fixed cutoff date. Registration will be closed when the range slots are filled. So it is in your best interest to make your interest known to James as soon as possible. General information can be found on WWW.ASA-training.Com and more specific questions and signups can be done with James Jarrett directly at (623) 581-6606.
Bob Hodge <info@ASA-training.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 16:11:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.241.155.50)
Firing Pins: Leave the stock ones in! They sell the big dollar ones to get your money.

Pat Tidwell, I hope to see you in June. I answered you in depth via email, but I will put a little bit out for the other interested guys on the rooster. The class in June is dependent on getting enough students to not cost James or I money. We are close to the number of students needed, if they send in the money they promised! James and I would like all deposits in by May1 so we can get everything up and running the way it should be. If you want to come, email me or james and let us known. I promise you will not be sorry you came to the class.

Mudvile Militia, I hope to get back and try for a first. LOL Next time I wont have an excuse if I lose.

Dee Turner, my Nightforce Scope didn't fog and I could see the "X" Ring at 600 yards. That is one fantastic scope. NXS5.5x22x56. They promise to send me the 3.5x15x50 in April. The 5.5x22x56 was supposed to be a loaner but I called NightForce up and said they couldn't have it back so set a price. This article is going to cost me big bucks.

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 16:37:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.193)

I want to re-torque the screws on my HS Precision 700P-DM stock. The barrel has shifted slightly left and I want to re-seat and torque. Recommendations on tools and technique appreciated.
Breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 17:33:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.3.204.222)
On the spring issue,

Thanks for the info guys, I'll stick to what I got. The gun is capable of 1/4 MOA now and I doubt thata spring will help much. Heck! The barrel isn't even totally broken in yet! I got 395 total rounds fired through it and I have a ways to go before it settles in.

A small note to handloaders,

I got my 175 MKs and the lot# is different. In fact the OAL is out a tad bit to the lands. It was 2.810" now it's 2.819" I seat it 2.821" to snug the lands. It leaves a wee little 6 marks on the moly I put on them. Check those bullets before you seat 'em.

All,

VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!!!!

Bravo Kilo out.
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 17:47:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.79.209.83)

Does anyone know where I can buy some of the issue USMC data books? I think they would work well for me and would probably be cheap. Or does anyone have any other leads on a good data book?
Should I make my own? I have thought about doing a home built one but am not sure what I should include.
Any advice out there?

Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
San Jo, more rainafornia, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 18:39:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.247.149.130)

Quick question on the 308 caliber 175 HPBT Sierra Gold Match ammo:

What is the stated FPS for a 26" barrel with a 1/12 twist? Is it 2600Fps or 2700Fps?

Darren...
Semper Fi
Darren <ddong@witcapital.com>
San Francisco, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 18:51:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.90.57.34)

Jeff-
Tactical Tailor at Ft. Lewis had some SOTIC data books last time I was there (January?)
TonyM <bcoyrecce@hotmail.com>
BC, Canada - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 19:10:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.102.80.125)
DATA BOOKS

Iron Brigade Armory has some Navy Suface Warfare data books.

I have had disasterous attempts at making my own books
as most waterproof materials are not. Nothing like lying out in the rain trying to decipher a bluish smuge that should have come ups etc.
-Yes I know you should know them anyway.
If you want to build your own something like:

RD# Ammuntion Time Temp Wind Dir Dist Meth TGT Effect
371 Norma Match 21:34 -4 8mph 3' 613M Lzr Greasy Serb Neut.

Don't take offence it is just an example, I don't like cowardly little vermin who shoot civie's for fun.

Tailor you book to what you want - if all you need is a round count then don't buy a fancy (and pricey) book. Sometimes the overly detailed book could help (especially in Liabilty) depending upon your detail - my example would probably jail me:)
Some people also use tgt shapes and indicate the impact point and come ups used to achieve the results.
You probably know your needs better than others and you can always change.

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 22:17:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.142.23)

Citibank loves us again. www.worldnetdaily.com If you check out this story, scroll down to the Army Sgt's tale of woe.
Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
PDX, Or., USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 22:55:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.133.251)
Has anyone out there had some hands-on or heard anything about the KVH Datascope. I could not find anything in the archives. The datascope sells in U.S. Cav for about $460.00. It is about palm-sized and has a built in compass which will store seven bearings. It also keeps the time. What was of interest to me was the fact that it is supposed to range out to 1800 yards, per the customer service rep. They could not tell how it ranges and the only thing I have any knowledge of are the laser range finders.
Any info would be helpful.
Thanks.
Jack <jackwilson@anglefire.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 00:14:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.215.84.142)
Jack - Datascope - Unless you are ranging on a lighthouse, or the The Queen Mary's Smoke stack, don't bother. We tested two of them and the graduations are just too dam coarse for real work in this area of range estimation.

Question on Data Book? - are u looking for data books, shooting logs, rifle logs or a mix there of. Most books have way too much data for a field environment and not enough for a range environment. One is a controled environment and the other is a wet, nasty, forlorn, pit of mushy paper and smugged ink. Unless, of course, you use a laminated data sheet for your shot. Tons of tables and info does not work in the field. On the range you can protect your treasures somewhat, but again the worse may happen. Only take what you need and store the rest for achive purposes and future references where it is safe. Then you go to that safe place where you can make your laminated card for a "special date".

Have fun guys, got one heck of a class full of students. Love these classes where most of the guys really can shoot before they get here. Makes my life so much easier!!!!

Rick <RBowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 02:00:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.206.208)

Jack,

Concerning the KHV Datascope. This is more of a mariner's tool than for precise rangefinding. Basically it is an electronic Mil Relation tool. You have to know the size of an object that you are aiming the instrument at. AS you are observing the "target" you holdown a button that raises or lowers a set of electronically generated "bars" until the number of bars corrospond with the height of the target. (Same as mil relation if you're familiar with that).

You enter the size of the target and it calculates the range. It is prone to the same kinds of errors that mil relation using the Mil dot reticle pattern has. These being:

The smaller the target, the more the potential error.
Errors at long ranges in measuring the size of the target or in entering the height of the target have huge errors in the result.
Bad light and air conditions create false images. Even worse in the KHV than when using a mil dot scope that has fine resolution.
You have to know the size of the target accurately.

The digital compass feature has some uses. I tried it a few times for the triangulation method of rangefinding. It did not have the fine resolving power (less than 1MOA angle reading capability) to use it for this method.

Final suggestion: No good for rangefinding. 1800 meters? Maybe, if it is tripod mounted, the air is crystal clear, the target is HUGE and lots of experience using the tool. The standard Mil dot reticle pattern and good optics will get you better results using mil relation than the KHV by far.

Email me if you have any other questions. Thanks and take care.
Trigger50 <Triggerfifty@specialoperations.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 02:03:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.252.120)

To all,
Would anyone like to see a 50 cent version of Outers Foul out bore cleaning device that works. Click on my name at the bottom for pictures and instructions. I found it on Tuco's Reloader shack forum.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 03:52:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.148.59)
On the databook. Check out www.trgt.com and our databook. It is a hybrid between the USMC/Army books as well as other stuff thrown in.

Wasup Rick?

Out
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 04:07:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.167)

Hello, all! I need some advice, please. I need some recommendations on good starting loads and powders to use for .300 Win Mag at 400, 600, and 1000 yards. Also, what would some good recommendations be for optics and/or bases? Personal opinions on the Tasco Mil-Dot series--good for the price, or good for nothing? Also, some general comments, if you would, on the Winchester Model 70 Laredo, composite stock, 26 inch barrel, .300 Win Mag. Any info would be helpful. Finally, opinions on the following bullets: Sierra vs. Berger vs. Hornady vs. Nosler Ballistic Tip--all in the 175/190 grain range.

Thanks for the help!

E. C. Tovar
E. C. Tovar <JJAWA3@EARTHLINK.NET>
Enumclaw, WA, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 06:59:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.13.50.234)

.300 win mag M70 Laredo. I know of five of these, including mine. Of the five, only one of them has had decent accuracy. The best I was able to get with mine was about 1 1/2" at 100 yards. However, it shot everything into 2 to 2 1/2" at that range, which is suitable for hunting. Mine had really excessive freebore, enough that I was able to push 168 Matchkings out of the case with a Stony Point guage. 200 Matchkings left less than 1/8" in the case. I had it rechambered in .300 Ultra Mag to get rid of the freebore a couple of weeks ago, but with all the rain in Southern Ca for the past few weeks I haven't had a chance to shoot it in this caliber. On the other hand both my son and I have M70 Heavy Varmint rifles in .308 that have been tack drivers since day one.
Pat Tidwell <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 08:44:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)
Shilen Barrels as sold by Brownells
 
 

Well, I now have a 700PSS that acts like it wants to shoot pretty good. However, I would like it to be better than pretty good. Rather more like, damn good. I have noted for some years that Brownells sells Shilen barrels prefitted and ready to install. All I need is the action wrench. I know that Shilen is one of the old-time big names in the business but I was told at one point (by a fellow I consider to be something of a rifle snob) that Shilen uses their second-grade stuff to fill Brownells orders. I was wondering if anyone here had any personal experience with Shilen barrels and, more specificaly, with Shilen barrels ordered from Brownells.

Thanks:

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, in the unseasonably warm state of , South Carolina, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 13:04:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

Pat T. Been having very good luck with 300 win mag using Fed GM cases, Fed 215M primers, 73.3 gr RL22 and Berger 190 VLD Moly. Averaging 3050 fps, .3 moa at 100 and 1 moa at 300. Using a Schnieder 25" match fluted barrel with a Vias muzzle brake. Have had similar results with same setup using Sierra 190s. With Nosler 180 Silver Tips was getting .4 at 100 with 73.8 gr of RL22. didn't get a chance to chrony the 180s.

TonyY <ayackowski@rcn.com>
Iselin, NJ, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 13:38:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.97.88.100)

Remember the Accelerator?

I recently saw an ad in Shotgun News for 1000 .30 sabots, $40. I assume these are a surplus Rem/DuPont item from the now defunct Accelerator cartrides, avialable in the early eighties. (chambered in .30-'06, .30-30 Win., and .308 Win., using a .22 caliber bullet of ? wt.)
Does anyone have any load data for .30-'06? Any thoughts on long term use of the sabots in the bore? Any need for a special seating die?

Thanks,

Keith
Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 16:44:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.91)

Here's a really stupid question... Is there any particular reason that the 7mm Rem. Mag isn't used as a long range "sniper" type round?

The reason this sounds so stupid is that, as you've already gathered, I'm not a sniper or "gun guru." I have owned one of these in Rem. M700 for several years and have had great luck in accuracy. I typically use the gun for goundhogs in the Spring and Summer and for deer in the fall/winter. It's been a grat shooting gun.

I am just interested and if it's an accuracy problem what are the causes.

Feel free to reply directly to my email as I don't have a chance to visit Sniper Country on a regular basis (busy like everyone else)

Thanks!
JR
jeff_rich_tn@hotmail.com
Jeff Rich <jeff_rich_tn@hotmail.com>
COOKEVILLE, TN, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 18:59:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.52.76.253)

Keith,
When you shoot the sabot rounds they are only marginal for accuracy to start off with and they get worse the more you shoot them. It used to be necessay to shoot a jacketed bullet about every 5th round or so because of the plastic fouling the bore I guess.

Jeff,
The 7MM Mag is a fine long range round and some Federal agencies even use it as a sniper rifle but like a lot of others it has to be hand loaded to get the full potential out of it and then you get into a liability question. The other draw back is that it is hard on barrels and like a 300 Win Mag it will need a new barrel in about 1500 rounds. The recoil is a lot more severe on the shooter and the 300 would over shadow it for long range work where it would be used beyond the 308s capability. Just my opinion for what thats worth.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 20:09:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)

I want to take a moment to thank everyone that responded to my post on training. It was very refreshing to receive so many well thought out and properly spelled emails. :>) The number one recommended training center was Stone Mountain. Some of you thought that I should choice the Leupold LR series over the NSX from Nightforce. Others gave great ideas on mounts and rings. All the little details that can and do make a differance.
I did think that the reply on shooting at the barn from the inside was one of the best!
I'll post the final scope selection and shooting impressions as they develope. If you want to weight in on the NSX vs. the Leupold, please feel free to start another thread war!
Thank you once again,
Gregory Fields
Gregory Fields <greg.fields@mrigroup.com>
Lancaster, Pa, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 20:16:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.170.180.246)
The7mm rem Mag is an excellent long range cartridge. The Secret Service is using it for their counter sniper rifles. IMHO it is a better long range cartridge than the 300Win Mag due to the more efficient bullets being available in 7mm vs 30cal. I'm using 168BTHP Sierras and 162 A-Max's and I'm also going to try 180 JLK's in my M70. recoil is not bad at all especially compared to a 300mag, about like a 30-06. With a 168 Sierra at 3000fps my rifle shoots into 3/4inch at 200yds. Load is 71.5gn H1000, Fed 215M in Norma cases and the aforementioned 168 Sierras. the Sierra manual lists the BC for the 168 as roughly (.488) which I'm gonna say is BS becasue they list the 190gn 308 as .533 and the 7mm bullet has a better SD. The A-max lists at BC=.625 and when I can get them to shoot well I will switch over. Barrel life is an issue and I will watch closely and let everyone know when mine goes south. Semper Fi....
Ken <target1371@aol.com>
IL, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 22:39:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.206.202)
Leupold versus NightForce, I have been using Leupold for nearly 20 years so you will never hear a bad word about Leupolds better scopes from me. I love the Ultra/MK4's and the new LRM1 and LRM3's are fantastic. I have only been using the NXS for about a month but I will tell you this, I took off a MK4 put on the NXS on my 300 Win. The resolution is better than the Leupold. I like the NXS's reticle better. I would be hard pressed to choose one over the other right now. Both are great and I am waiting for the new NXS 3.5x15x50 to test. As long as you are looking to upgrade take a long look at SxB and BxL scopes as well.

Sniper Schools: SMTC is fantastic but I would like to have a chance to work with you in June at the American Shooting Academy's New Mexico Facility. Two SF Instructors and little old me.

7mm Mag is a fine caliber for snipers if you handload. I will take the 308 and 300 win over it though. They have many more bullet options and you can get Match Ammo from the factories. If I am to handload I would rather hit something with a 220 grain bullet at 2850fps than a 168 from a 7mm Rem at the same speed. If you think my velocity figures are off for this caliber ask Trigger 50, he gets the same without signs of pressure. Start using some RL22 or IMR7828 powders and watch the 220's fly. Just my opinion, but I only needed 28moa to get from 100 to 1000 yards and 3moa for a 10mph wind at 1000 yards.

Dean, congrad's on the book. When's that drag bag coming out

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 01:17:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.34)

On the .300 Win Mag posts, I notice some of the loads listed are maximum loads. I recall when I first started working up loads for my .300 (Shilen, with tight neck)and for my M3(220's at 2650 fps), I started with a mid-range load of H4831 with the first 2 rounds chronographing at 2850 fps (26" barrel). WO! I did'nt have to look at the chronograph because I felt all 17 lbs. of that rifle coming at me. I had to back off 5 gr.'s for the desired velocity. You'all be careful working up those loads.
dan <danr@acnet.net>
Deep South, Texas, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 02:13:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 170.76.33.14)
Pat—I would have guessed this. I bought a box of RemAcc in 1981 and shot an awful group with them (3-4" at 100 yds., Rem 700 BDL, '06) but kept the remainder for the future. But the idea of the velocity intrigued me (projected at 4000 f/s+-, as I remember), along with the idea there was (presumably) no signature on the bullet, assuming it could even be recovered. I understand this had at least someting to do with why Rem. discontinued the load (the good old BATF boys, once again).
Your contention that a follow up round with a jacketed bullet would eliminate any sabot plastic build up seems sound. Now that we have moved into an age of extreme velocities and frangible projectiles of all stripes, my query about the load seems moot. But, like many of us, I like to tinker. I was just wondering if it were possible to put together a low signature bullet/load which would actually SHOOT, using these sabots. Forty bucks is light duty for this day and age. If anyone else has any input, please let me know.

Keith
Keith E. Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 02:47:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.122)

Pat—I would have guessed this. I bought a box of RemAcc in 1981 and shot an awful group with them (3-4" at 100 yds., Rem 700 BDL, '06) but kept the remainder for the future. But the idea of the velocity intrigued me (projected at 4000 f/s+-, as I remember), along with the idea there was (presumably) no signature on the bullet, assuming it could even be recovered. I understand this had at least someting to do with why Rem. discontinued the load (the good old BATF boys, once again).
Your contention that a follow up round with a jacketed bullet would eliminate any sabot plastic build up seems sound. Now that we have moved into an age of extreme velocities and frangible projectiles of all stripes, my query about the load seems moot. But, like many of us, I like to tinker. I was just wondering if it were possible to put together a low signature bullet/load which would actually SHOOT, using these sabots. Forty bucks is light duty for this day and age. If anyone else has any input, please let me know.

Keith
Keith E. Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 02:48:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.122)

Hi out there in sniper country . I'm currently stationed in the Army 25th id I'm a U.S army and Marine Core sniper school grad and a bunch of other things. I'm getting out of the service here in 2 months, I've been sniping for awhile now. How should i go about trying to get on a police or federal sniper Team?
J <tracker_01r@yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 03:05:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.205.35)
Tom: I put a prethreaded Shilen SS #7 barrel on my Rem 700. The chamber is cut VERY short, So short I would still need a lathe to rough it out. I did alot of other machining on that barrel, set the shoulder forward for a bigger lug, recut the bolt recess, shortened it to 24". The action wasnt trued up very much, lapped the lugs and faced the front. HS set at GO +.001. It shoots 5/8" with Fed Match 168 all day long and probaly could be improved with handloads and of course a squarer action. Personaly, if your going through this much trouble, do it right the first time and have the actin trued and a good barrel fitted by someone who knows what they are doing.
mike S <mws@ecom.net>
USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 03:45:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.138.195.145)
Keith...
It wasn't the BATF that put the Accelerators off the shelves. The Bat boys (actually it was the American forensic assoc.)looked at the round, and decided that there isn't anything left of those little pills from HiVel varmint rifles to match anyway, so it didn't matter whether they had rifling or not.

They went off the shelves because they weren't accurate enough to do what their entended market wanted them to do. Nobody wanted a varmint rifle that shoots 3"+ groups at a hundred yards, and Remington couldn't get them to shoot better, after years of trying.

Pablito.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 04:02:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.103)

OK, 220's at 2850 seems way warm. How long a barrel? Also I bet it beats the crap outta you, right? Not to say that I don't love the 300 mag as well as my 7, it's just that I think the 7 is more user friendly. Somehow I think 168 7mm at 3000 vs 220 30 cal at 2850 is kinda academic on the receiving end, eh? It would really suck to get hit with either. I have tried RL22 with my 7 and it still needs work, at least in my rifle. I have a 8lb keg of H1000 sitting on the shelf so why screw with success? If you have a 7 you don't need a 300 and vice versa. It hasn't been about "need" for a long time:-) I own both calibers and like them both. It's just my "normal" LR gun is the 7. Semper Fi...
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
IL, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 04:56:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.179)
Ken, the 220's at 2850 fps(out of a 26" barrel) was obtained unintentionally. I was looking for the load that would produce 2650 fps. I notice every now and then someone asking for advice on loads and meant to remind the importance of reducing starting loads by 10 percent of listed maximum loads to avoid a "kaboom" instead of the normal "boom" when pulling the trigger.
dan <danr@acnet.net>
Deep South, Texas, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 05:18:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 170.76.33.59)
Prayer: awhile back, someone posted the prayer/speech given by the father of one of the Columbine HS shootings.....

Well - check this one.....

starts here>>>>
 

Thought you might enjoy this interesting prayer given in Kansas at the
opening session of their Senate. It seems prayer still upsets some people.

When Minister Joe Wright was asked to open the new session of the Kansas Senate, everyone was expecting the usual generalities, but this is what they heard:

"Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask Your forgiveness and to seek your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says, "Woe to those who call evil good" but that is exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our vales. We confess that.

We have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and called it Pluralism;

We have worshipped other gods and called it multiculturalism;

We have endorsed perversion and called it alternative lifestyle;

We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery;

We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare;

We have killed our unborn and called it choice;

We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable;

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building
self-esteem;

We have abused power and called it politics;

We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition;

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it
freedom of expression;

We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.

Search us, Oh, God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and set us free. Guide and bless these men and women who have been sent to direct us to the center of Your will, to open ask it in the name of Your Son, the living Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen".

The response was immediate. A number of legislators walked out during the prayer in protest. In 6 short weeks, Central Christian Church, where Rev. Wright is pastor, logged more than 5,000 phone calls with only 47 of those calls responding negatively. The church is now receiving international requests for copies of this prayer from India, Africa, and Korea.

Commentator Paul Harvey aired this prayer on "The Rest of the Story" on the radio and received a larger response to this program than any other he has ever aired. With the Lord's help, may this prayer sweep over our nation and wholeheartedly become our desire so that we again can be called one nation under God.

"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for everything."

the end <<<<
Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 14:12:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.172.42.2)

Mike M,
I have to agree with you on the 300WM vs the 7MM both are fine long range rounds but the recoil is still to close to call. I have shot some nasty kicking 7MM Mags and if your going to get beat up you might as well have the extra punch of a 30 cal. I liked the 190s in the 300WM, never shot the 220s but I bet they do fly nice. I just got word last night my 6.5x284 will be shipped this next week ,hope to get it bedded and to the range shortly after that for some testing. I ran some figures on it today and it looks like I will be able to get to 1000yds with about 25 MOAs with the 142s and with a Berger, with the .640 BC, well you don't want to know(HA).
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 17:33:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)
If you really like a 30 cal that flies, try a 30/378 Wby with a 210 Berger VLD. and imr 7828 or 50 BMG. With the .640 BC and 3440 fps you only need 17 MOA to get it to a 1000 and you still have enough energy to knock down whatever. TOF is less than a second. Next best thing to a 338 or 50.
Tony Y <ayackowski@rcn.com>
Iselin, NJ, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 18:23:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.97.88.100)
I'm shooting M118 Match ammo fairly good at 300 yds but I've run out of scope adjustment on my Redfield Accutrac 3-9x40. Will switching to medium or high Redfield scope rings give me some more elevation up adjustment so that I can zero at 500 yds.??? Or should I go to the 168gr BTHP or 155gr BTHP Palma bullet to get my additonal elevation??? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
sven <svenska50@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 18:59:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.174.99.55)
Ken, I believe in the separation of church and state.
 

Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 19:33:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.20.190.1)

300 Win, 220's at 2850fps. I also found that velocity by accident in a less than max load with a 28" bbl. I was about too grains under max. Kick, heck my shoulder nerves died long ago and I dont notice it. Jerry Rice thinks I'm nuts and says use the 190's. As long as these shoot the way they do, I will stick.

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 20:21:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.59)

Tony,
I can't argue that but it also comes with a high price!! Beats you up and by the time you get it figured out and a little practice you need to start over with a new barrel. I read on one of the other sights where a gentleman was shooting a 30-378 and was showing some throat errosion at around the 100 round mark. I see where some guys are necking down the 7mmstw to a 6.5 and a 6mm now talk about something that shoots flat, but for how long. We always have to pay a price either in ballistics or barrels and recoil.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 20:44:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)
The 1st amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:..."
I don't want to start an argument, however, when inviting a Minister Joe Wright to open the Senate session, one would hardly expect a Santa Ria invocation. This amendment has taken as much of a pasting as any other. In my heart, it means just what it says, there will be no religion established by our government. Not endorsed, sanctioned, approved, or tolerated, but established. $.02
Note that this is the amendment screamed about by the "Heather has two Mommies" crowd while they try to throw the @nd amendment in the trash. $.02

On a lighter note, I am trying to neck down a 1 pound Hodgdon bottle to .30 cal. Should I go with large or small primers? Any idea who to turn to for dies?
Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
Portland, Or, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 21:17:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.133.181)

O.K., out of the woodwork I come. I have enjoyed SC for about a year and a half now. Bought my long-range rig about 8 months ago. It is a Savage 10fp, .308 w/ Tasco SS10x42 with mildots. I enjoy the rifle tremendously. I hold 1.1" @ 100 y. and 1.8" @ 200 y. The rifle can probably do better, as I tend to blame the shooter (me) on the fliers.

Anyway, I would like to bed the stock. I have researched the bedding process, but I would like to see pictures of it being done before I ruin the stock (I tend to over think before I leap into something). If anyone could suggest where I could find pictures of a stock being bedded I would appreciate it.

Also I am thinking of purchasing in the future the Choate Varmit stock. Any suggestion, ideas, comments on this stock.

I know I am on the cheap route but I am not financially well off. The more I save, the more I get to shoot. 8^)

Thank you in advance,

D. Hurley

D. Hurley <dhurley@mikemarrs.com>
Middle of, Texas, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 22:12:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.215.10.193)

Jim Mitchell,

No dispute with YOUR belief in the separation of church and state, but read the Constitution carefully and you'll see that there is no such provision. That expression is a bastardization of language, coined by a misinformed fringe of liberalism and carried forth by predominantly non-religious members of our population so as to lighten the weight of morality on an increasingly immoral society. There is no argument that can prove that the Founding Fathers of this great nation intended a government devoid of religion. Instead, they simply restricted a religion IMPOSED by government (as had been the case in England).

Show me a solid example of a society which as survived for more than a hundred years or so without a sound, moral foundation. Remember the Roman Empire? How about the USSR? It ain't happening!

I consider this argument to be on the same plane as the claim that the Second Ammendment refers to hunting arms only. NONSENSE!!
 

All,

Did you catch the new buzz-name for trigger locks? According to Ozone Al Gore, they are now referred to as "Child Safety Trigger Locks"

Never mind that you are urged by manufacturers never to lock a loaded weapon's trigger for risk of unintentional firing - what's the point of locking an empty weapon? It makes it worth little more than a rock in a self-defense situation.

Out
Roger E. Lays <rlays@zbzoom.net>
PA, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 23:07:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.67.120.227)

I'd be really leary of throwing 210 Bergers at 3400fps. Friend of mine had the 210's come apart at 2950 from his 30/338. This was during the long range week at Perry and needless to say he was mojo pissed off. Berger jackets (J4's, I think) are fairly thin compared to Sierras and the best guess was that the jacket couldn't hold together. 30/378 should be far worse. Maybe just got a bad batch. Semper Fi....
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
IL, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 23:31:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.177)
Hey guys, Do you have any recommendations or comparison information between the Winchester Model 70 Stealth and the Remington 700 Sendero in .300 caliber? I have bits and pieces of information about each of these, but no real comparison data. I'm aware of Remington's standard of excellence with its trigger/bolt assembly, but for the Winchester I have no clue. Any information regarding the components and accuracy would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Dan
Dan <desdichado19@hotmail.com>
DE, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 01:25:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 128.175.131.21)

Trigger Locks Et. Al.

We have had 'safe storage' provisions in Canada for the last seven years. Trigger locks are not all bad - locking unloaded guns that are NOT under you control is not bad. When you have your gun under your control - no need for the trigger lock. In your nightstand while you are sleeping etc. is still under your control. When you leave the house etc. lock 'em up. I don't aim to give in to gun control people but if it doesn't hurt it make US look all the more reasonable. WE then show that we are willing to be responsible with our guns so WE don't need some one shoving more controls down our throats.
 

Mind you it never seems to end.

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 01:26:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.142.215)

.30-06 Ackley Improved
 

I was wondering if anybody here had any experience with the .30-06 Ackley Improved or other improved .30-06 chamberings. Like a lot of people (I suspect), I want something more than .308 Winchester performance but something less than .300 Win Mag recoil, bore erosion and powder consumption. Sadly, the stock .30-06 just wont quite group good enough. Lets assign some somewhat arbitrary requirements for purposes of discussion: its gotta lob a 185 gr. Berger VLD at 2,800 fps. and be capable of holding a true 1 MOA to 1000 yards. Tough, to be sure. I was wondering is the .30-06 Improved chambering does anything to improve accuracy. I think it would about make the velocity requirement. It would, of course, be awfuly convienient if this would solve the problem. If not an .30-06- based cartrige, I would entertain other approaches, like .30-284 perhaps, or .30 Arch., or something on some wacko Newton case. I'm flexible. :)
 

-Tom

Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, in the hap, hap, happy state of, SC, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 01:37:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)

D.Hurley;
Take that P.O.S. factory stock off buy a Choate if it's what you can afford ,get some Fed.GMM or other "Good" ammo and enjoy your gun. You will get many conflicting opinions on this rig but the "proof is in the puddin'".The combo of Savage,Tasco,Choate is not the choice of professioal snipers worldwide but a damn servicable rig none the less.I shoot a 110fp,Tasco SS,Choate USS and am not ashamed of it,it is consistent accurate,affordable and the extra weight makes my truck ride better:)but if I can see the target it is in grave danger.

Ken;
The faster loading is OUTSTANDING ,thanks
Bruce E. <bgenlvtex@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 02:55:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.195.23)

can someone tell me what the mil-subtension is for 16X.I lucked up into a MK4 16X w mildots.All I've ever used was 10X.got a hotshot 300 Win to put it on.
thanks
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 03:05:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.2.14)
Sven, if you are using a Remington action go with the Badger Ord rings and mounts with the built in 20 moa tapered base. Badger makes an adapter for the rings to take 1" scopes. If not using a Remington contact Armament Technology and see if he has any of his 15 moa tapered scope base shims left.

Gooch
Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 03:32:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.137)

Hey,
This is my first time on this sight and let me say WOW!!! Glad I found it.
I have been interested in getting into Long Range shooting for awhile
I spent time as a PMI in the Corps and would like suggestions on
equip ie. make mod.and Cal. If possible something I don't need a
second morgage for.

Thank you.
Jason <emileeg@earthlink.net>
Springdale, Arkansas, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 03:46:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.141.48)


 

Hey Guys,

I was watching the news the other night. And they said something about gun control that caught my attention. They are trying to introduce legislation with this new Gun Control BIll that Commrad Cliton is planning to sign by April 1. The law would limmit the number of guns one person can own including hunting rifles. If ever there was a reason to join the NRA it is now for those who have not. But I figure I am preaching to the choir. Also I have been working with a group operation through my special forces unit called JTF6. And I was wondering the Constitutionalty of it as it deals with Posse Comitatus and found a survey that the DOD put out a few years ago and it is alarming as to what they asked. Basicly it was probing to find out weahter or not American soliders would fire on US Citizen if they refused to give up there guns. JTF6 is a combined effort to utalize our ablities agaist drug trafficing and other issues but I never realized how unconstitional it all was till now. Any thoughts on this subject? Have any of you heard of this survey?
Owen Foster <sigma532@yahoo.com>
Texas, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 04:42:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.19.0.220)


 

Hey Guys,

I was watching the news the other night. And they said something about gun control that caught my attention. They are trying to introduce legislation with this new Gun Control BIll that Commrad Cliton is planning to sign by April 1. The law would limmit the number of guns one person can own including hunting rifles. If ever there was a reason to join the NRA it is now for those who have not. But I figure I am preaching to the choir. Also I have been working with a group operation through my special forces unit called JTF6. And I was wondering the Constitutionalty of it as it deals with Posse Comitatus and found a survey that the DOD put out a few years ago and it is alarming as to what they asked. Basicly it was probing to find out weahter or not American soliders would fire on US Citizen if they refused to give up there guns. JTF6 is a combined effort to utalize our ablities agaist drug trafficing and other issues but I never realized how unconstitional it all was till now. Any thoughts on this subject? Have any of you heard of this survey?
Owen Foster <sigma532@yahoo.com>
Texas, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 04:42:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.19.0.220)

1st part: non shooting govt stuff:
=================================================
Roger got to it before I did.

The idea of separation of church and state as most Americans perceive it is derived, IMHO, from hearing about the early people seeking a refuge from political persecution in the New World colonies. In our government, there was, by the hands of our forefathers, an inclusion of Judeo-Christian beliefs into the government, but as Roger said, not a mandated religious flavor to be forced upon the people. Does our money not say "In God We Trust"?

I wholly believe that there is a 'moral fiber' that is needed in and is missing from politics.

Let me emphasize: I do NOT vouch for the "Conservative Right". They would have, if they could, a government that is controlled from within their religious constructs. I only am saying that I think that it would be a 'good thing' if decent people, who happen to adhere themselves to some significant moral code of conduct, were to participate in politics with the interest of the PEOPLE in mind (NOT the interest of their subscribed religious establishment).

I've seen too many cases where a self-proclaimed Christian has tried to ram their exact flavor of religion down someone's throat, with the predictable outcome of driving the other person off from Christianity, understandably believing that Christians are maniacal lunatics.

As a nation, it would be heinous to demand that the people adhere to a particular denomination. But, it is NOT a wrong or undesirable thing to have the religion of our country based upon a Judeo-Christian philosophy, as our country WAS established that way, and that the majority of the citizens of this country subscribe to some form of such beliefs. Even among agnostics and atheists, there is a predominant moral level that exists that subscribes to the same goals as most religions, whether or not the dogma of a religion is believed or thought to be myth.

=====================================================

D. Hurley,

The Savage stock has pillars in it; I didn't bed mine, but instead tried to improve the flimsy feel. My suggestion is to first ensure that the barrel is free-floating in the stock. I used my dremel, trimmed on the sides and front of the stock channel to make sure that there wasn't any contact with the barrel. Then I used fiberglass- reinforced bondo to add rigidity to the forearm of the stock. I actually had an old pushrod that I used inside the fiberglass to help act as a structural stiffener, as per the suggestion of a gunsmith buddy of mine... it was cheap, and it improved the stock's feel. It didn't help it's accuracy any, but it wasn't detrimental. I had originally thought to later upgrade the stock, but have now decided to not. Instead, I've got more money going down-range now. I'll save money for a fancy stock to go onto some super-Remington that I may build in the future, but for now this Savage is a better shot than I.

============================================

L8R,
-L

Leslie <lnbright@juno.com>
TN-VA, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 05:05:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.98.92.157)

HELP! I am looking for a longer distance rifle range in Colorado, as near to Denver as possible. I have contacted the NRA Wittington Center in Raton, NM, but I have not been able to get a strait answer on the distance of their range(s). Anything 500-600 yards or longer would be really nice. Thanks Guys!
Patrick Sciaroni <midhill@hotmail.com>
Superior, CO, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 05:38:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.244.79.36)
Does anyone know how to contact Bobby Whittington concerning the Basic Long Range Precision Rifle School being held March 23-26? I tried the link attached to the announcement here in SC and the mail came back as undeliverable. Thanks.
Kevin R. Mussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 09:19:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.164)
I have just been notified that the link to email me in regards to the Basic Long Range Rifle course is not working. My email address is bobbywhit@hotmail.com. Or I can be reached at the following phone numbers;
580-581-3274 Work
580-595-5722 pager
580-479-5559 home
580-585-1237 Cell

I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.
Bobby Whittington

Bobby Whittington <bobbywhit@hotmail.com>
Grandfield, OK, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 14:41:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 164.58.0.246)

Re LOCKS and STORAGE

I think I rocked our boat (judging by the emails) but my belief is the best defence is a good offence. If we as firearm owners can see ways to make ourselves look more responsible and reasonable I believe a majority of 'undecided' non-gun owners would think twice before voting for more restrictions.
As far as most laws (like the mag ban) go they are ill concieved sound bites - most laws are created by anti-gunners - It is time we are the progun crowd say Hey we own them let us determine how they should be stored etc. and then hold us responsible for how we store them.
I wholeheartedly believe in the right to self defence with your firearm, but I also believe when you aren't home lock up your guns be it a safe or other locking device. There are too many idiots out there not to take some precautions.

Just my thoughts

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 15:20:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.139.140)

I re-seated and torqued my 700P DM HS stock last night. The good news is I can see light again on both sides of the barrel. However, it appears I have a slightly crooked V block as the barrel sits off center. This rifle shoots .5 with handloads so I'm not too worried about it but I'm wondering if anyone else has this problem with HS stocks. Apparently, this is a known HS problem. Feedback appreciated.
breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 16:35:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.3.204.222)
Sounds like quite a shot..........
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Sniper Kills Rival Inside Jail

Updated 9:04 AM ET March 10, 2000

TIRANA (Reuters) - An Albanian sniper killed a prisoner relaxing in the recreation room of
a high-security jail in Tirana, the Justice Ministry said Friday.

Ilir Bardhi, who was awaiting trial on charges of killing two men with an anti-tank missile,
was the sixth victim of a feud between rival gangs within the past year.

Police caught the sniper and an accomplice as they tried to flee after the shooting Thursday.

The sniper fired a single shot from the balcony of a building some 500 meters from the
prison, through the window of the prison's third-floor recreation room.

Duncan <bonzer@pacbell.net>
California, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 16:49:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.137.113.219)

Any feedback on the AICS chassis system?
breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 17:04:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.3.204.222)
Kevin on gun locks:
The issue isn't gun locks or how safe your weapon is. There is a dual issue of admitting government regulations into our lives, and that of non-prossecution of criminals in order to stir sentiments to pass more laws. First off is the government regulation: Do I own trigger locks? Not one. I have a safe, and I use it. Do I need locks? Nope. I could just as easily say that if you wanted us to be safe, you would purchase a vault also, but I don't. YOU know your situation better than I do, and WE know our situation better than the government. By granting them the capability to say anything about how we store our weapons, we inherently admit that they have a purpose AND A RIGHT in regulating that aspect of our lives. Once a right is given, it's hardly ever reclaimed except through bloodshed and NO ONE wants that. Next will be a government arsenal where you can check your bolt gun out durring deer season only. Second is the idea that they can change things INCREMENTALLY, through enterprising on emotions brought on by acts of domestic terrorism. Am I cold hearted? Not hardly. But the fact remains that if the 6 year old wasn't living in a crack house, and there wasn't a stolen pistol available, and he hadn't learned morality from crack heads, well, this would be moot. So the solution is: grab the guy that stole the pistol (instant jail time) and the guy that let the kid get ahold of it (instant jail time) and the parents who did dope around the kid (instant jail time) and PROSECUTE!
Do you really think that dope heads are gonna trigger lock their stolen pistols anyway? And just to combat the mass (communist) media, the stats from the FBI show that in America, we have the least ACCIDENTAL shootings now of the last 30 years. Imagine what it could be if the laws were enforced! By the way, you LE guys got my sympathy. I've heard how much you bang your heads against system.
Sorry for the long off subject post, but it had to be said. Now go vote for Dr. Keyes!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 18:46:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)
Brovo you hit it right on the head. But if we hung gun thieve's like we did horse thieve's. I think thief of firearms would drop.

Hot Shot
Hot Shot <HotShot@ aol.com>
Cal, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 20:53:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.24.102.133)

Patrick Sciaroni:

Long Range Shooting? Try the Colorado Rifle Club: www.crci.org

A number of ranges up to 1000 yards, and 50cals are allowed.

$117 to join the first year plus one days work.

Private club with many sanctioned events.

Just East of Denver a short drive down I-70.
15miles past DIA?

Hank <ninesoft2@earthlink.net>
Denver, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 21:06:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.27.84.142)

I have to put in my .02 about the whole trigger lock thing.

It is obvious to everyone that the media and the liberals in congress and the white house are trying to use the outbreak of school shootings as an excuse to take our guns away. However, they have to know as well as anyone that this is not a solution to the very real problem that we are facing, therefore I must conclude that they are only using this horrible trend to meet their own socialist agenda. After all, drugs are illegal yet available everywhere. I have to believe that the same would be the case for guns.

These occurences are clearly the result of irresponsible parents and the break up of our nations moral fiber. As a responsible and law abiding citizen and gunowner I have no problem with instant backround checks and in fact support them whole heartedly. I do not think that just any psycho off the street should be able to walk into the local sporting goods store and walk out with a handgun. I also have no problem with waiting periods. I believe that they serve a very real purpose in helping to eliminate certain crimes of passion. Can anyone name a time when they NEEDED a gun so bad that they could not wait a couple of days to pick it up? I can't. I also support the idea of holding the parents of a child responsible for a gun crime that child commits. That only makes good sense. If that parent had been responsible in the storage of their weapon and the teaching of their child the crime would have been prevented. Therefore, that parent absolutely deserves the full punishment of the law.

However, the idea of limiting the number of firearms that may be purchased by one individual is absolutely ridiculous! It is based on nothing! Am I supposed to believe that someone who owns five guns is more likely to commit a gun crime than someone who owns only one? This is would simply seem to be the first step in the plan to ban guns altogether and it is scary. So called "smart gun" technology is ridiculous and unnecessary. It is simply an attempt to solve a problem without confronting the reality of what the problem really is. Ditto for trigger locks (just on a smaller scale).

On the separation of church and state thing - several people have rightly pointed out that the constitution only states that the government may not force the people to adhere to any set of beliefs. This pathetic skewing of our founding fathers words has only begun in the 20th century. I agree that no public school should have the right to force my son to pray, but how dare they force him not to! Let us not forget that the liberal reading of the constitution that allows people to ban school prayer and practically outlaw religious belief is the same reading that allows them to say "well, surely our founding fathers were talking about muzzleloaders when they wrote the 2nd ammendment. They would have never approved of an AR-15." These people are responsible for the very sad lack of morals in this country. Therefore, I would conclude that the same people who want to take our freedom away by banning guns are in fact at least partly responsible for the escalation of their violent use by our young people!

Sorry for the length.
JHal <jhall@family-net.net>
IL, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 22:28:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.0.57.59)

Trigger locks: I don't think they're such a bad thing. Especially where children are concerned. I'm from Canada as well, and I think the mandatory trigger lock is the most positive move our gov't has made towards public safety concerning firearms. Though ,the rest of our laws suck.

Safes are a great method of protective storage, However, not everyone can afford them. The trigger lock is cheap and effective. All the gun manufacturers should include them with new firearms. When I bought my Savage 112FV it included a lock. I thought that was a thoughtful gesture on Savage's part.

I don't think it's infringing on anyone's rights to ensure that your firearms are safely secured. It's just common sense. If trigger locks can prevent only one needless tragedy, it would be worth it.
 
 
 

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 23:29:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.222.48.30)

I agree that all manufacturers should supply trigger locks with their weapons. I even believe that any responsible gun owner should be expected to secure his weapon. Commom sense tells us that. The thing that I have a problem with is Uncle Sam telling me exactly how I should secure it and that nothing else is acceptable. Besides, George Bush made a very interesting point. He asked "How are you going to enforce it?" Clearly there is a better solution to be found. Hopefully the government will not see that solution in the so called "smart guns".

The other thing I have trouble with is some of the specific trigger locks that could become mandatory. I have seen some that are combination locks permanently built into the grip. I don't whether it only has to be operated once, and then manually relocked or if, for instance, a magazine change automatically relocks the weapon. In any case these would seem slow and cumbersome to unlock, especially in a stressful situation.
JHall <jhall@family-net.net>
IL, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 00:06:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.0.57.12)

May I weigh in on the gun lock deal?

Most of us old fellars here remember when the old mans service pistol was unholstered and laid on the dresser as soon as the shift was over. The shotguns and rifles were scattered in various places all over the house. In my case I also remember these words: "you touch these guns without me being here and you will wish you had been shot". The look on the face said it all and I can honestly say that I never did touch them when he wasn't there. My old man was a cop and the thing that I used to look forward to from the time I was 6 was to clean his service revolver every week, with him looking over my shoulder. My daughter was raised with guns and she got the same speach and THE look. You can ask her now and she will tell you even at 19, that she still wouldn't touch them unless I was there. So much for history.

Folks, if I had it to do over again with her, my first rule for myself would be that none of my weapons would be outside of a safe or without a trigger lock unless it was on my hip. After 19 years, and hopefully I won't die before I get two little twin blonde headed grandkids to ruin, I have had a lot of time to think about the fact that those weapons were available not only to my daughter but to other little crumb crunchers and curtain hangers that might have been in the house. They may not have had the benefit of a parent that knows how to teach respect for weapons. If I couldn't have afforded a safe, I would have made damn sure they had a trigger lock on them and I would have built a lock box for them. The only time they would be out of the box and unlocked was like I said before, when they were on my hip.

Now I say preceding as a prelude for the following stance on trigger locks. I hate and detest the government's constant mothering and regulation of my life, BUT:
With the x generation of young yuppies and soccer moms out there buying handguns, loading them and never taking a shooting course or firing the weapon, the requirement of trigger locks TO BE SOLD WITH THE GUN AND INSTALLED AT ALL TIMES OTHER THAN WHEN THE PARENT HAS PROXIMAL CONTACT WITH THE WEAPON makes sense. At least, it will give the common sense challenged purchaser of a weapon a direct method to use to keep the little muchkins from shooting themselves by accident. Whether they have enough common sense to actually figure out how to use them is another matter. I think that the parents of a kid [I still have to define the age of a kid] shooting themselves or someone with a weapon that is not locked up in a safe, lockbox or trigger locked ought to be shot themselves because that is pure neglect.

Now, if a weapon owner has weapons in the house that are stolen and used in a crime, we have a different matter. Trigger locks in that case would be of no use because if you want to get the lock off you can. A hacksaw to the trigger guard can make the lock useless and the weapon doesn't need the trigger guard to function. A thief is a thief and if he steals a gun with a lock it, the lock won't be there long.

The bottom line here folks is that I may be mellowing out with age but with the mellowing comes wisdom and realization. The realization that a weapon that I owned and kept in my house could be used by my child or another child to shoot another or himself is something that I could not live with and I would do everything I could to keep it from happening. I hope to have those little grandyoungins one of these days to teach the OLD ways of gun respect. But, I also realize how damn quick kids are when you turn your back and ignore a potentially bad situation. If I live long enough, when my grandyounguns come to visit or spend the night, all the weapons will be in the safe (all but one is now anyway and it stays in the pocket) except for the one in the pocket. At night it will come out of the pocket and go on the nightstand and the bedroom door will be locked so the little darlings can't come in while I'm asleep and scare grandpa with it.

It never ceases to amaze me the total lack of some folks common sense and if a trigger lock can overcome the common sense challeged weapons buyers, I am for it.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 00:28:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.59.58)

M14 threads and religeon in the schools:

(sigh)

First, something remotely related to the nominal subject matter of this board: does anybody here happen to know what size and pitch screw is used for the scope mounting provisions on the side of the M14 rifle reciever? It would appear not to be a common hardware store item: smaller than 1/4", larger than a #10. Near As I can figure its about 28 TPI, anyway.

Now, religeon in the schools: I address this question to those who promote the free expression of religeon in the public schools: Is this something that you have *realy* thought all the way through? I ask this because you may not be aware of just how big a can of worms you are opening. As you are aware, America today is not nearly as homogenius today as in decades past. Americas public schools are filled with kids that are of many different faiths, some distinctly different than the WASPy little world that most of us grew up in. When you send your kid into this new marketplace of ideas that you seek to create, what makes you so sure that the kid will come out with the same beliefs and values you sent him or her in with? Just how square are you with the idea of your kid coming home with Hare Krishna, Church of Latter Day Saints, Muslim or (enter name of religeon that annoys and-or frightens you here) literature in hand? Why, just to add some spice to the mix, there might even be the odd full-blown cult recruiter mixed in for good luck. When the folks (mostly Christians) than support this can tell me that, in their heart of hearts, they are cool with the idea of their little daughter reading a pamphlet entitled "Getting Wild with Wicca!", I'll sign off on it. In the mean time however, why don't we just not go there. As a future public high school teacher that would be required to help referee this mess you seek to create, I ask you to give me a break, too.

And dont give me, "We'll only let the real, mainstream religeons in". Talk about a slippery slope, and in Teflon boots no less...
 

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, in the Buckle-of-the-Bible-Belt State of, SC, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 00:47:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)

dear friends,
I have made a table for incline shooting with true minutes of angle using 168gr BTHP Match 2600 FPS bullet. if anyone is intrested in this table please e-mail me at andystev@hotmail.com
Andy Stevens <andystev@hotmail.com>
oshkosh, W.I., USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 01:49:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 171.226.58.123)
Tom,
Just stepped out to the garage and found the mounting screw on my Springfield scope mount is 12/32. And yes I am much happier w/ the BPM mount. Want to buy my Springfield mount? Just kidding.
Hope this helps.
Spud,
Out
Dennis <usmcspud@aol.com>
Merced, Kalifornicateya, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 01:53:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.35)
Pablito—

I love a reasoned response. I suspected something like this, but didn't have the research to follow it up. I love this site!

Keep up the good work.

Keith
Keith E. Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 02:06:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.11)

Gun Locks:
Question for you all. Is placing a lock on a firearm not somehow akin to having an automobile in the driveway with an empty tank of gas? At least in the sense that, should an emergency arise (heart attack, ruptured appendix), you can then go into the garage and put gasoline into the tank, THEN drive to the hospital?

Just a thought.

Keith
Keith E. Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 02:13:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.11)

One more thought on Gun Locks:

Taking a bit more of a cynical approach, is it too much to ask of parents with small school children that they be required to send their kids off to the classroom wearing body armor?

You laugh, but in all seriousness, in the early seventies the community of New Rochelle, New York, passed a law (or city ordinance) making it illegal to sell aerosol cans of paint to anyone under the age of 18, IN ORDER TO PREVENT MINORS FROM PAINTING GRAFITTI ON VIADUCTS AND OVERPASSES. Does this brand of Democratic "logic" echo anything here, with respect to the gun lock/trigger lock/smart gun debate?

Okay. I'm done. Have a good weekend everybody.
Keith E. Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 02:34:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.11)

Jim,
Did you have any luck necking down that 1 lb bottle of powder to .30 cal? I had to anneal mine, then I used heat shrink tubing and as of now I'm down to .50 cal! I think you had a great idea! :)
Frank
Frank <kubikari@goplay.com>
N.Bend, OR, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 03:16:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.214.112.175)
HELP

DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW WHAT THE UNIT VALUES ARE TO THE GRADUATIONS FOUND ON THE V.R.C. CAMS, BETWEEN THE 50 YARD MARKS, OF A SIMMONS PRO-50 4-12X50MM AO SCOPE? I AM ASKING THIS QUESTION BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF GRADUATIONS VARIES BETWEEN 50 YARD MARKS, AND WAS WONDERING IF IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF DIVIDING 50 BY THE NUMBER OF GRADUATIONS.

HOW MUST AN ANIMAL BE BRACKETED BY THE RANGE FINDER RETICLE IN THE ABOVE SCOPE? SHOULD IT BE BRACKETED FROM THE BASE OF THE NECK/TOP OF THE SHOULDERS, TO THE BASE OF THE CHEST/STOMACH? I AM ASKING THESE QUESTIONS BECAUSE THE INFORMATION SUPPLIED WITH THE SCOPE I RECENTLY PURCHASED IS RATHER VAGUE ON THESE MATTERS.

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY PERFORMANCE INFORMATION ON THE YUGOSLAVIAN M-76 SNIPER RIFLE?
JOHN PILEPICH <IvanaJohnR@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 03:19:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.194.186)

Trigger locks.....
I used to be of the mindset of got no use for them. Now, I can see some of the "common sense" of the issue since I have a curtain climber now. She has shown extreme ingenuity and intelligence in getting to/reaching what she wants. Recently, at the age of 16 months, she stacked up boxes to make steps to climb onto a garbage can to climb onto the kitchen counter to reach a box of cookies while I was covertly watching from the doorway! She does this sort of shit all the time, takes after me I guess.
BUT:
I have and use multiple safes, that I either personally made, or heavily modified. I used to weld for a company that specialized in security doors & windows, blast doors & windows, teller windows and other bank type stuff that was subcontracted for Diebold and Lefevure, GSA vault doors, and various other "special order" high security products (I once worked on a door that was supposed to withstand a direct hit from a Tornado missle and still function, at least that was what the engineer said. I think it went to Kuwaite). Any way, all but the carry weapon, my service rifle (that is locked into a nylon tac case and stored in a secure place), and whatever disassembled project I am working on (currently M40A1) are kept locked in the safes. Do I need trigger locks on the majority of my weapons? Only if I really want to piss off a group of herniated thieves. After they went through the hassle of liberating a safe that is really heavy and anchored into the cement floor, then finding a way to get it oped without damaging the contents, only to realize that they then had to "break into" each firearm......Maybe it isn't such a bad idea after all. If they manage to get any of my guns, they definitely worked overtime for them.
Steve U. <hockyref@bellatlantic.net>
weather can't make up its' mind, Here in SW PA, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 05:43:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 151.201.137.29)
After that long tirade...
Hey 'Lito (or any one else), do you happen to know the thread size and pitch used to modify a case for a Stoney point OAL tool? I can't see sending cases to them to drill and tap when I probably have the tools I need just getting dusty in my old tool box.

Steve U. <hockyref@bellatlantic.net>
snows due next week , in SW Pa, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 05:49:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 151.201.137.29)

Man, when I stir the pot....

First off to any of our Canadian brothers: Please note that at no point did I ever say that trigger locks were a bad idea or not waranted in some homes. If I didn't have a safe, I'd have a bunch of them, and probably a heavy vinyl covered chain to "tether" them to the wall. That having been said, my premise is, and has always been, that our constitution expressedly forbids this kind of law. Our 10th amendment (the final bill in our bill of rights) says that whatever rights were not specifically set out in the constitution for the government are strictly the arena of the individual states and the people that are their citizens. Thus, if I ALLOW the federal government to pass a law stipulating that I will use a trigger lock, I am undermining my own states rights, and indirectly my countries constitution. Of course, I'm physically incapable of that :-)
What it all boils down to in the end is: either you take responsibility for yourself and your family, or you don't. If you don't, and require the government to take responsibility for you, then you needn't a weapon in the first place, as you haven't hit maturity yet. Give the people that can think for themselves the option of addressing their own needs and purchasing whatever they feel best suits those needs. By the way, love your country. Even Quebec. VERY pretty and pristene, besides, it's the only time I get to use my French lessons any more :-)

Boltster: didn't know you were that OLD dude :-) I got the identical treatment from my Dad too. NEVER touched any of his weapons without permission (although, if I ever asked, he would unload whatever and then hand it to me for however long I wanted) even to this day. Of course, back then the country in general had more "moral fiber" and you just didn't hear of the kind of things back then that we have today. Degredation of society is the problem, more federal government micromanagement isn't the solution. On the good side of things, I HONESTLY beleive that your introduction of weapons in the home to the grandkiddoes will set them up with a lifetime of safety in its own right. Isn't that what Eddie Eagle is all about?

And now to Tom Simpson: You are MOSTLY correct there, but there is a solution that is almost so simple that most folks don't see it. School vouchers. Or better yet, no school taxes with the families of the students paying tuition to keep the school solvent. If I don't want my son (or possibly daughter in the future) involved with religion X, I send him to a school that has a platform built on religion Y. No sweat. Soon enough, there would be schools set up for every religion under the rainbow, with of course, different curriculum. I might have to wind up driving him an extra 20 or 30 minutes to school, or moving our residence closer, but this is of little consequence in comparison. The end goal here is that no one should be offended by some type of religion (and yes, I agree that even a "non-denominational" prayer could offend people of some religions) being forced on them, but in the current case the educrats (like that word??) decide that people of ALL religions should be offended by the lack of CAPACITY of prayer. Unless you consider (as I do) some of the "alternative lifestyle", "death", "health" (sex ed) and other classes such as Marxism (revisionist history) and deep ecology (science) as offensive religions that are forced openly on children. I promise that I would not be nearly as offended at my son bringing home literature of any religion as I would be of required reading of "Jaime has two mommies". Of course, this is also a symptom of the lack of moral fiber in our country, as this also wasn't heard of (along with school shootings and so forth) in our childhood. Of course, there would be the other "side effects" such as a higher demand for good teachers, who have their salaries determined by capitalism rather than federal funding, improved teaching, etc.

Now, I'm sorry for stirring all this, and I'm gonna just read for another month or so. Just feel like I've taken up too much band width, so you have my sincerest "Sorry".
Bravo <Bravo76@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 07:08:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.137)

Isn't this Snipercountry not Theologycountry?

I'm saddened to see that we have to drag religion into the good 'mix' we have going here. We are drawing 'lines' in the sand that only further divide our already small, close-knit group at a critical time in history.

Regardless of what our founding fathers chose to believe - times, people, and countries change; I will admit though, that this is not always for the better.

Please dont push religion into the good thing we have going here and divide us up.

I'm a regular reader, but wont post my name because my beliefs are not CHRISTIAN but are EASTERN in nature. How many of you are offended that I dont believe in J.C. let alone ANY god?

Just because a persons not christian does NOT mean that they have moral standards that are less ethical or less 'good' than a christians morals.

When you meet a non-christian, forget for a second what god (if any) that they believe in. Ask yourself if they are good people.

-Do they hurt others?
-Are they compassionate to those less fortunate?
-Do they respect and honor their parents/spouse/family?
-Do they not infringe on others rights unduly?
-Do they treat others as they would like to be treated themselves?
-and so on....

These things are not strictly the traits of a good CHRISTIAN but of a good HUMAN BEING.

Allow me to have my faith without critisim and I will do the same for you.

Thanks,
~A concerned 'REGULAR'
A concerned REGULAR.... <Karma@dharma.com>
USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 09:01:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.74.73.241)

Ken Just logged on today after a busy week and read the prayer by Pastor Wright. It was terrific. We should send that to every legistlator we know including Bill and Hillary. Thank you for that.
 

AL Osstapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
WOW!!!!, Ohio, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 09:56:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.144.4.49)

Well, I don't think you guys have to be THAT old! I am 36 and I got the same "Don't touch until I am there" parenting from my dad. Still follow it, too. He wasn't a cop, but we had many guns in the house. Now I have two girls, and they are starting to bring friends home. I don't worry about my two, but the others, well, I have trigger locks and a safe now.

As to the religion thing, Karma, I think your beliefs are yours, and I think not one bit less of you because of them. The Constitution I swore to uphold says that you may believe what you want, and you don't have to believe what I want. My interpretation, of course. I'm not military, just a small town cop.

Thanks for the help with the M1A1 problem. Spud, I got the book yesterday. Definately head space problem. Guess we'll see how we fix it, eh.

Stay safe, all
Michael <s4b1106@micron.net>
Shelley, Idaho, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 12:32:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.253.13)

Sarah Brady country??...

I think this trigger lock thing is righteous "Right-On" thread.
You guys really got the "Kool-aid" lines down pat. Excuse me, but I gotta' barf at this warm/fuzzy poopie!

"If it just saves only ONE LIFE, it will be worth it!"... how many times have I heard that piece of illogical crap in the halls of congress, when bad, or un-constitutional legislation was being proposed?... about eleventy million times.

If you believe that, how about...

Mandatory Alcohol/liquor safes... It'll solve the teenage drunk driving problem... "If it just saves only ONE LIFE, it will be worth it!"

A national 20 mph speed limit... "If it just saves only ONE LIFE, it will be worth it!"

No sales of power tools without a certificate of training... "If it just saves only ONE LIFE, it will be worth it!"

Mandatory requirement that all electric appliances be plugged in by a licensed electrician... "If it just saves only ONE LIFE, it will be worth it!"

At a time that we've heard so many bad gun bills proposed, with an obvious goal, how you guys can swallow this Kool-aid is beyond me.

This gun lock crap is the same style of word play on the non-shooting public, as the "Deadly Assault Rifle" (and then the "Deadly Assault Pistol") deal... and now the "Loop-hole gun shows" that now should be banned!

We had it in Konnecticut, where an angry mother got one of the first trigger lock laws passed. So she got a law passed that requires all guns to be locked from the counter of the gun store to the car... with a trigger lock !!
Question # ONE! - how many accidental shootings involving children have occurred in the parking lots of gun stores... "ZERO"... how much safer did she make the world for children... NADA!

Ah you say, so it's harmless, so what, just take it off when you get home... what's bad about that?
Well, now that we had an innocent "GUN LOCK" law... and it would be easier to modify it, once in place, than to pass a real bitch law in the first place.
So then came the complaint (from the same woman that discovered this lobbying stuff is fun, makes you important, gets you on the 6:00 o'clock news, and it gets you money!)... she says the locks aren't strong enough, and the owners are taking them off at home... so lets MAKE THEM use the locks... we'll make it a first class felony to have a gun without a lock unless you were shooting it.
Carry it in your car trunk without a lock "Bingo"... busted! Have it unlocked in a home without kids and Bingo... busted... go to court... cop a plea for a suspended sentence... Bingo... never own a gun again!... and if your gun is used in a crime, it's your fault because if you "REALLY" had a trigger lock on it, it couldn't be used in a crime".

The real problem with the gun lock/trigger lock legislation is there is no interest in safety of kids. It's about slowly re-defining the terms, just like the "Assault Rifle" thing. First, an assault rifle is a military machine gun shooting a low powered cartridge (the official definition)... then it becomes a semi-automatic that looks like a machine gun... then a gun that has removable magazine... Yadda, Yadda.
When Mayor Dinkins in New York, finely passed their own "Assault Rifle Ban"... they went to the registration lists (Registration lists??? Oh yeah... they registered all rifles about 30 years ago "For safety of the kids")... well, mano, they went to the lists, and looked up everybody that had ANY semi-auto, and went after them. Including the .22's with a tube magazine, and Ruger 10-22's... (because you could put an "Assault Magazine" in them)... Bingo! Now a FELONY for possession in New York. Dinkins "Did it for the kids"!

In Jersey... if you "CAN" can put a large magazine in it (even if you don't own one)... bingo Busted!! Felony... no more guns for life.

On the trigger locks... it's the same thing... it will sound nice and warm/fuzzy... it'll save little "cute" kids... and one day you will wake up and ask "How the hell did we get here?"

Question # TWO - If it's just to save the lives of kids, why does the group that pushes and supports all trigger/gun lock legislation... oppose all gun safety training, in spite of the overwhelming stats that prove that gun safety training is the most effective form of gun/child safety, and it's effectiveness has been proven over and over. It's because it "Ain't about the kids"... IT IS ABOUT THE GUNS, you dummies, AND THOSE THAT OWN THEM... it's about YOU!!

Wake up guys, you are feeding the dog that's gonna bite you in the ass.

Am I against safety locks... NO. I have a 1200 pound pistol safe on the front porch, and a 2500 pound rifle safe in the garage, and the house gun is in one of those button combo lock box thingies.

But this stuff shouldn't be in law... the laws are written by people that know nothing about guns, nothing about safety locks, or gun safety in general, and don't care anyway, 'cuz that's not their real purpose... their real goal is YOU!

On God... because your name is Chang, it doesn't mean you are Buddhist... and because it's Smith, it doesn't mean you are Christian...

If you guys are dumb enough to argue about God on this Site (or any other site)... and argue what the "Founding Fathers" meant... you need some oxygen.

How many of you couch potato "Constitutional Experts" have really studied the Constitution, and read the Federalist papers fully... and the related papers that followed?
How many of you have read them more that 2 times... until you do... take your opinions of what the founding fathers "Meant" and go back to watching CBS 6:00 o'clock news, cuz you ain't even close!

I'm gonna' take a break for some fresh air at...

http://www.hampsterdance.com/

It's more grown up.

(does anyone on this site shoot long range rifles anymore??)

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 12:37:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.3)

hey Pablito,
I still shoot,does that mean I can't hang out here anymore.
need another set of them bino's.wife took em over,lucky if I see em once a month.
A nice crappy morn in mid-tennesse,think I can call in a coyote or 2.
outta here.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 12:47:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.182)
'Lito!

Breathe In, then Out,

Innnnnnn.............

Now

OOOOOOuuuutttt..........

Relax and tone with me
 

REMMMMMMM...............

REMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....................

REMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....................

There I believe the fold has returned to normal, and the discussion of marksmanship and the pursuit of the 1000 yard headshot.

Any kind of safety device is a placebo for professional training for those warm - fuzzy - feeling - Volvo driving - leftist scumballs who compensate for their poor child raising and discipline skills, ignorance of firearms safety, and beliefs that they are the Elite of America(No insult is meant to the auto makers, or non US S/C Volvo owning posters, rich safety minded shooters, et. al. just the liberal yuppy inbred offspring of the America trashing hippies of the 1960's and 1970's, BURN IN HELL!)

FYI, I did an article on trigger safety devices way back in April of 1993 for The American Rifleman here is the closing blurb FWIW:

"Before anyone becomes lulled into a false sense of security, it must be remembered that any of these devices provide only deterrence to immediate unauthorized use of a loaded defensive firearm. The Only sure, safe way to prevent injury is to keep all firearms unloaded, securely locked up, and most importantly, verify that any firearms is unloaded each and every time you touch it."

I now return you to your normally scheduled programs

Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 13:36:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.46)

Belated comments on removal of fouling and light firing pins. Just got back on SC after a short trip....

A long 5/16 drill is the absolute quickest way to get ALL that fouling out (.30 cal), AND it will never foul again!

I made a Rem 700 firing pin out of titanium and aluminum that cut the weight from 637 (stock pin) to 205 grains. Dry fire sound went from THUNK to >tic<. Just to try and find the limit, I took 5 coils off the stock spring and was getting about 2% misfires, mostly on milsurp ammo. Went back up to a stock spring and have had no further misfires. I have not done any scientific comparisons in accuracy between this and the stock pin but my impression is that it did not make a significant difference; but then this change was made at a time when the system as a whole was not shooting in a very impressive manner (myself being part of that system!).

'S no big job to take a stock pin and reduce the weight by near 30% with a single deep flute down its length and a little creative minimalism at the shoulder.

From other comments it sounds like sometimes it helps and sometimes not. Don'tcha hate it when a magic bullet turns out to not be magic afterall?

Still hoping for someone to come up with a low-value SKS or something so I can continue the underwater experiments... anyone?
Ned-goes-BANG
Nec <michigun@hotmail.com>
xx, MI, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 14:25:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.136.22)

OK, a thoroughly chastised Boltster dude takes the following pledge:

"I, Boltster dude, will never sway from the subject of long range shooting and related stuff on this site again."

Sorry guys, I sucked myself into that discussion. Politics are like guns, everyone has their likes and dislikes. Sometimes I forget that this is a shooting site. Won't happen again.

A humble Boltster dude does a slow crawl back to the bunker.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 15:21:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.191.5)

Trigger lockes and School shootings...

I have a question to pose to all of you. Do people really think that trigger lockes would stop someone
be them children or adults from using a firearm? Not that there a bad idea to use around small children
especially if you keep and maintain a loaded firearm in the house.
However its hard to tell your towering assailent to hold on a sec while I unlock my SIG....

As for the mentally challenged representatives we have so absentmindedly elected into office who are trying
to shift the blame from personal responsability to the fault of firearms is ignorant.

The Kids/young adults who are responsable for the shooting in Colo. would have accomplished the task
gun or no gun, triggerlock or no triggerlock. What ever became of old-fashoned parenting? The firearms
in my house as a child were not to be touched ever..... until I learned all about saftey tought by a stern
man I revered as the ruler of my world. From the time I was 5 firearm safty was drilled into my brain sometimes
with a switf kick in the @!# I learned as will my children.

I have never seen a firearm get up and shoot someone by itself. Not even in the Marines where i served as a PMI
and saftey instructor( and believe me some of the guys on the range would have done better if they had.)
Anyway Trigger lockes? I don't believe they will cure the problem, just delay it for an hour or two while they pick it.
 

Sincerely, Jason

Jason Lee <emileeg@eatrhlink.net>
Springdale, Arkansas, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 16:07:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.140.77)

A THOUSAND APOLIGIZES FOR MY OFF TOPIC RAVINGS

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Bitterer than HELL in, Canada - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 16:29:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.144.93)

Headline, NEW YORK TIMES, January 1st, 2002. "Senate To Vote On Bill Requiring Gun Owners To Register Gun Safe Combinations With Local Law Enforcement Agencies".
 

Interesting that the very people (CNN, ABC, NBC, Hollywood, et. al.) who expend so much effort and rhetoric on the protection of the first ammendment are the same ones so staunchly opposed to the second. (Censorship? Not on your life. I don't care how much Television and Cinema violence influence your children!)
No, it ain't about long range shooting, but discourse is good. The only way we're gonna stand up for what we believe in is to get good and pissed off. It wins revolutions.
 

Okay. Now I'll shut up (til next week).
Benoist, Keith E. <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 16:52:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.45.211.162)

'lito:

"I think this trigger lock thing is righteous "Right-On" thread.
You guys really got the "Kool-aid" lines down pat. Excuse me, but I gotta' barf at this warm/fuzzy poopie!

"If it just saves only ONE LIFE, it will be worth it!"... how many times have I heard that piece of illogical crap in
the halls of congress, when bad, or un-constitutional legislation was being proposed?... about eleventy million
times."

When I was 10 yrs. old I lost a close friend who accidently shot himself while cleaning his .22 rifle when his parents were not home. Apparently the gun had not been stored safely and was loaded.Certainly not a very responsible thing for his parents to do.

Now they have to live with their tragic mistake for the rest of their lives. The boy's older brother found him lying in a pool of blood. The brother required many hours of councelling to help him through it. The brother was 13 at the time.

Safe storage laws may have helped prevent this unfortunate tragedy had they been in place at that time. It's hard to say, but I'd be willing to bet that it would have.The boy's access to the rifle may have prevented him from accidently shooting himself.

Afterall, his intention was to only clean the rifle. It wasn't the kind of incident where one would destroy a locked case and dismantle a trigger lock only to clean a rifle. It wouldn't have been worth his trouble to do so.

The rationale behind the safe storage provisions of our Canadian laws are simple. Most everyday responsible citizens obey the law because they want to conform to the laws of the land. By making trigger locks and safe storage provisions law, it is enforcing the already widely held belief that safe storage of firearms should be of major concern to everyone.

Now...fast forward 20 yrs. ahead. Like Steve U. I have a very curious little girl who is just a little over 2 yrs. old. It's only natural for them to explore the world they now live in. That's how they learn. If you don't stroe your firearms safely with small inquisitive children in the home, then you are inviting disaster to occur.

Now here's yet another boring story from my little life:

When I was around 1 year old my parents took my to visit my father's uncle who had never seen me since I was born. Well, my father's uncle owned an automatic handgun for home defense that he kept loaded on a shelf.

My father, who was not familiar with firearms, picked it up out of curiosity to look at it. Not knowing that the pistol was loaded and ready to fire, he looked down the sights on the barrel and pulled the trigger. The gun went off and my father killed his uncle's television. From what I was told, I was resting on the carpet about 4 feet away from the tv.

My father and his uncle never spoke again after the incident. My parents have a pathological fear of firearms as a result. They look at me as the anti-Christ as I pack up my gear to go shooting.

Perhaps now you are able to comprehend why some individuals may want trigger locks and safe storage provisions as law?

Do you have kids 'lito? Perhaps you can relate to where Bolt, Steve U. and myself are coming from.

Safe storage is EVERYONE'S responsibility. I'm lucky enough to have a safe. Not everyone isn't. Trigger locks are just an affordable alternative. You either use them or you don't.

As far as making it law? I'm not an American so I really don't have an opinion on how your country should govern itself. That's up to you people to decide.

The gun control debate is certainly a very emotionally charged topic of discussion. When you have international forums like this, you have to expect to get a wide range of views and beliefs based on the cultural, ethnic, and historical backgrounds and life experiences of the people on this forum.

Yes, this may be all "Kool-Aid" for some.

I'm personally glad our country has some reasonable control measures on firearms ownership.However, within the last 10 yrs. it's really become ridiculous and full of BS.

Someone asked how a trigger lock law would be enforced. Well up here in Canada it's one of those things where if you do get cought breaking the law, you'll be fined and probably lose your firearms for up to a year or possibly more. Getting them back will not be very easy either.

For example, if the police are called to a domestic dispute, the first thing they want to know is if there are any firearms in the dwelling. Presumably for their protection and those involved in the dispute. If there are firearms present, the police will want to inspect them to make sure that they haven't been involved in the dispute. If the police discover that the firearms are not properly stored, the police then lay charges.

This is one of the most common ways people get charged under the storage requirements of our laws. By the way, 2 weeks ago I came home from vacation in sunny Florida. There was a murder-suicide in my town on the day I arrived. The husband shot his estranged wife with a rifle that was in the home.

I knew the people through the business I am employed with. Ironically enough, the wife's peace bond against her husband arrived at the police station an hour before the shooting took place.

Other situations include routine traffic stops where motorists have firearms present in the vehicle.

Here in Canada, when transporting handguns and para-military type restricted firearms, they are required to be in a locked case, trigger locked, and stored in a locked trunk, if the vehicle has one. Otherwise they must be stored out of plain sight as not to be highly visable to other individuals.
 

Well that's my $.02 worth on this subject. Just remember Kool-Aid is only pennies a glass !
 
 
 
 
 
 

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 17:35:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.222.48.30)

SAFE STORAGE ENOUGH ALREADY,

We aren't going to agree so lets drop it.
I've offered my thoughts and that kicked up a pile of email.

For those who oppose - No-one is saying that guns under your control must be locked. So the excuse me while I unlock my SIG isn't a justifiable answer. What would happen when your out and someone steals your SIG or a child finds it. We can't control human behaviour (as much as the ANTI-GUN crowd like to say) but we can attempt to mitigate against tragedy.

For those in favour - I think most responsible owners don't leave guns lying around and to say that a trigger lock would have stopped that 6 year old from taking the gun is STUPID - 1) It was stolen 2) criminals have already broken the law by definition so why would a law help

I think that in most cases solid gun safety and awareness would prevent theses accidents. We live is a disposable society where we can take pills etc. to 'cure' everything from pregnancy to insecurity. What we (as a society) need is to awake and realise that all actions have consequences and we have a responsibility to face those consequences.
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 20:05:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.144.194)

Jim and Frank:
Be sure to sort your cans. I have found that the tin of the Winchester Ball Powder cans is much thicker than that of most of the other manufacturers, thus less case capacity. I have experienced some powder crushing with the longer .30 bullets seated deep enough to clear my magazines. These may even vary from lot-to-lot, so you should weigh cans for consistency.

The old square Hodgdon cans had the best consistency of neck tension, I suspect because they were not threaded but had that neat little pop top. Machining sizing dies and chambering the rifle to proper headspace was a trick. Sure made it easy to index the round from shot to shot tho.

I have never been able to overcome the eccentricity of the neck on the IMR cans. Any suggestions?

Thanx, all, I feel better now. (I gotta giggle, imagining a newby reading this site for the first time. HUH?)
Paul <paul_f_mickey@ameren.com>
Spfld, il, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 20:19:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.51.215.248)

I'm a newbie with rifles. I've shot pistols on and off (recreationaly) for 10 years. Well, I traded a Glock for a Savage Tactical 110FP with a Tasco Proghorn 3-9 power scope.
I want to upgrade the scope. I've got about $500 in the budget. I've read through alot of this site and frankly, it's become information overload.
I would appreciate suggestions for a scope. Something that would fit my budget. And that would be versatile because I really dont know where I'm going in this new (to me) sport. I'm not going to jump into 1000 yard shoots but who knows, maybe some day if I improve??
Obviously I'm not LE or military. But I hope you dont hold that against me... too much.
I was looking at the Tasco SS10x42-M and CU840X56M. Actually I've never associated Tasco with "high quality" scopes but your forum shows some respect for them.
Leupold has many many choices and a great reputation. And there are other manufactures with excellent products.
Anyway, I really dont know. Fixed power or variable. Milliradians or MOA? What's best to learn on?
I need some help and guidance.
I'll continue reading but I'm hoping some of you with experience will give me the benefit of your experiences.
Thanks in advance,
Richard
Maubo@tampabay.rr.com
Richard <Maubo@tampabay.rr.com>
Tampa, Fl., USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 20:36:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.6.27)
'Lito, hamsterdance? What the hell? How did you come across that?
My $.02 on dancing marmots...

Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
PDX, Or, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 20:42:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.133.17)

More Slam Fires.

Last week I wrote about problems I attributed to Lake City Ammo, my M1-A, and slam fires. Three days ago I went to the range with a very clean M1-A. In twenty rounds (I inspected all the primers before hand, all Lake City Match M118) I had three more slam fires.
For those who have never had this experience, it is very unsettling. For those who have, I am desperately seeking advice. This rifle is brand new! I bought it about a year ago but never fired it until this past December. To date I have fired exactly one hundred-eighty rounds through it, all factory, Mil Surplus. To date I have had eight slam fires. I shoot left handed, and I am beginning to visualize an operating rod scar across my forehead and yet another broken nose (best case scenario).
Should I just send this thing back to Springfield and let them deal with it? I read everything I could find in the Duty Roster, Hot Tips, and articles sections. Since the titanium firing pins are not (apparently) available for the M1-A, I have no idea what can be offered to correct this problem. For every person who suggests a headspace problem, I have someone else tell me it can't be!
I have only fired this rifle when there is a magazine in the well. I have not attempted to dismantle the trigger assembly. I have only fired the weapon under ideal conditions, so there is no foreign matter which could be contributing to the situation. Help!

Thanks in advance.

Keith
Keith E. Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 20:53:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.122)

Keith, Re-Slamfires
Keith, check the easy stuff first. Headspace is easy to check. Firing pin protrusion is also easy to check. After that, take a bunch of your suspect ammo and pull the powder out of each case and reseat the bullet in each case. Stuff a bunch of these DUD rounds in your magazine and cycle them thru your action. Check to see if the hammer falls ever, before cycling another round. If the hammer ever drops without pulling the trigger, then you have isolated the problem. Please point the rifle in a safe direction when you do this. If you get a primer to go off and the hammer did not fall, then it is a firing pin problem or an ammo problem. There is a bridge under the receiver which is supossed to retard the forward inertia of the firing pin when the bolt slams home. This needs to be checked by a good M14 gunsmith for correct timing. Do not fire any more live rounds until the thing is fixed.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 21:43:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.148.92)
1st: trigger-locks:
If your firearms aren't stored in a safe, or secured in some other fashion, a trigger-lock MAY be a good idea for you, depending on YOUR personal situation, environment, etc... be safe, be sensible, but it should be YOUR decision, not the government's.

2nd: God & morality:
Based on Roster replies and email, I've pissed in some people's Cheerios. I was not discussing God, nor intend to do so here. It matters not whether someone's Christian (Catholic or Protestant), Jewish, Islamic, Hindi(sp?), Wiccan, agnositic, atheist, or whatever, I don't care: I'm NOT going to think more or less of ANYONE because of their religion just becaue I'm a Christian. If you want to talk about THAT, contact me OFF the Roster.
My point was that the founding fathers were built upon morality that was comparable to the morality values that are SUPPOSED to be in Christianity (not to confuse a real believer with the "establishment religion")(yes, 'Lito, I have read 'em, thought about 'em, argued over 'em...). With that said, look at the lesson learned with prohibition: you can't legislate morality. To do so imposes upon FREEDOM, which is exactly what the government is supposed to protect, not infringe upon.
W/ that said, I'll behave now ('til it gets brought up months down the road! ;-)
====================================================

Actual sniping-related question!

The local camera shop has a pair of Steiner 8x30 binoculars on sale for $199, but I can't put my finger on the flyer now. I "think" they were called Safaris... they weren't the military Steiners I'm used to, but they didn't look bad, either. Were dark gray, coated lenses....

Does anyone have any info regarding any Steiners along these lines?

I've been needing a pair of binos, and while I'm fond of Steiners, I would rather get the most glass for the least money (I WON'T be spending more than $200 for 'em, well, for now anyway).

Anyone know of better binoculars for less money?

Thanks, guys....

-L

Leslie <lnbright@juno.com>
VA-TN, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 21:47:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.98.93.21)

Where am I? Can't be SNIPER COUNTRY because we talk SHOOTING in SNIPER COUNTRY! WTF, Goochtradomus?

Seriously though, everyone is trying to make sense out of the Clintonistic mentality that has pervaded the country. WHY? It makes no sense! Raise your kids right, take them to church, show them that guns are to be used, but respected, and love them. See? A simple recipe for a new generation of US...
 

Now, everybody go get a favorite rig and a couple of boxes of your favorite. Now go to the range and come up with some problems, or some bragging groups, or just go burn some powder!!! Then come home, clean that toy however YOU want to, then get back on here and tell us about it.

Hit'em hard, long and repeatedly,

John R.
John R. <jrr051468@aol.com>
MS, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 22:14:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.69)

As a young boy growing up in California, waiting for a brick of .22
rf to go on sale,so you could strap your gun on the bicycle, ride out to the canyons . The Ride took an hour and a half, passing the boarder patrol and police cars , that all waved Hi , remembering their day plinking in the canyons . I would set up cans or find an old car , looking for a good hill side or back stop , just as dad had showed me as a small boy. WE NEVER HAD TRIGGER LOCKS///////.
He trusted me after his tutelage , With a final line that was
something like, ( If you ever shoot anything, or anybody , for no
good reason , you better hope the police get you first, because I will beat you till your mother cant recognize you, do we understand each other) Nodding to this , the deal had been made , This left a lasting impression .
Today you if told a boy that , he would look you in the eye ,with a reply of , you do that, I will have your gun toten Ass thrown in jail ,if you ever so much as look a me sideways .
I think there in lies the problem, also personal responsibility , drunks who say they have been “ OVER SERVED”, the car, plane,
boat,train accidents, they blame the manufacture of the vehicle.
I would love to see someone just say I screwed up ,its my fault.
I have done it,its my fault,a lawyer told me to lie,
like motherlessbastard that he was!!
With big money on the line, most just knuckle under to the lawyers.
 

P.S. I bought 1K A-MAX 168s blemished bullets
$ 120 less than 5% look bad or are damaged.
everything shoots under 1 MOA , still working
on a good load , two hundred fired so far.
It appears seated in the throat to 10 thou. back
seems to works , way back to 40 gr. Varget and
work up . E-mail if you (been there done that)
Hans W. Kuwert <akuwert123@Hotmail.com>
77deg clear, California, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 22:46:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 130.191.26.94)

Keith,
I've never seen a titanium firing pin for an M1-A, but that doesn't mean you can't have one made without going in debt. If you can find a tool and die shop in your area, they can map out your firing pin and make one out of anything you want in no time. It will cost a little more since they will only be making one but not too outrageous since the machining time wouldn't be all that long. If you do want one and can't find a shop, get me a print of the firing pin with the tolerances you want and I'll make it. Don't know what the turn around time would be since I'm already working 12-14 hrs a day. BTW, I'm a journeyman tool and die maker.

Eric
Eric R. <Roody5150@aol.com>
Cabot, Pa, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 23:03:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.57)

Pablito,
You are SICK!!!!!
What a cruel thing to do to fellow Rosterfarians!
Now I have that stupid tune running in my head and I cant get rid of it!
Guy's. DO NOT go to the hampster site. It may me hazardous to you sanity.

On topic quote with Regards to God and Founding fathers.

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy"
--Benjamin Franklin

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 23:08:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.148.92)