Sniper Country Duty Roster

Hey you guys.

ANyone have a point of contact for Marty Neery.  Some of you guys know him from Storm Mountain.  If you do could you email me direct with the info.

Thanks.

Out here

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Click on my name to visit the leader in tactical marksmanship training - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 00:43:29 (ZULU)

Hey you guys.

ANyone have a point of contact for Marty Neery.  Some of you guys know him from Storm Mountain.  If you do could you email me direct with the info.

Thanks.

Out here

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Click on my name to visit the leader in tactical marksmanship training - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 00:43:51 (ZULU)

CDC,

Can you check my figures?

Math to Ponder

Ever wonder about those people who say they are giving more than 100%?  We have all been to those meetings where someone wants over 100%.  How about achieving 103%?  Here's a little math that might prove helpful.  What makes life 100%?

If:

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

is represented as:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26.

 

Then:

H A R D W O R K

8 1 18 4 23 15 18 11 = 98%

 

K N O W L E D G E

11 14 15 23 12 5 4 7 5 = 96%

But,

A T T I T U D E

1 20 20 9 20 21 4 5 = 100%

And,

B U L L S H I T

2 21 12 12 19 8 9 20 = 103%

So, it stands to reason that hard work and knowledge will get you close, attitude will get you there, and bullshit will put you over the top.

But, look how far ass kissing will take you.

 

A S S K I S S I N G

1 19 19 11 9 19 19 9 14 7 = 118%

So the next time someone asks you to give more than 100%, you know what is required of you.

Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 03:56:25 (ZULU)


Byron:  I'll have to refer you to a professor of Business Stats.  He's comfortable with this type of calculation.  He also does consulting for the PolSci and the Psych Depts.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 04:55:35 (ZULU)

Gents,

Going on graveyard tonight. Spent the last couple days off trying to get my body ready for the blessed event. Not much to tell from this end. Still rains and high wind, although it has let up this evening.

All for now...

Semper Fi,

Wes

Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 05:03:29 (ZULU)

Markwell,

Still pretty good p-dog shooting out in the badlands around Medora, we get out there a couple of times each summer and the populations seem to hold steady. Plague hasn't hit em here yet, hope it doesn't.

My son shot his first deer Sat. 75 yards with a .50 cal muzzleloader. He is almost as proud of himself as I am. Wants to try archery next year. I think I've had more fun trying to get him his deer this year than trying to get mt own.

Take care!

Rob Opp

Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 07:07:42 (ZULU)

Youse guys getting a bit of rain and cold, just enjoy it,we got the worst drought in 100 years happenin here and 40+ deg C. The roo's are comin out of the back country by the hundreds lookin for what grass is left on the farmland.Keeps me in somethin to shoot.

The latest word on Iraq,Sean penn says Mr Bush shouldnt pick on Saddam,so there, all you guys who thought there was gunna be a war can all settle down.

out

G.W

Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 10:27:11 (ZULU)


R. Opp,

Tell your son ,congrats on the deer. I'm looking forward to the same experience.

Pete L.

Ass-reaming for dumb gun tricks... Deputy, no less, returned a 870 from Turkey season for me to have a look at and store for him in my vault. I removed it from the case(zippered) and rack the slide, force of habit, almost put my sons' eye out with a 3" mag turkey load as it ejected. Not only one but 4 more still in the "f"ing tube. No, the safety was not on. He came in the office yesterday morning after shift and all cheery says "well, whadya think of my 870?" I told him allright. I don't trust nobody but me, and I question me as well most of the time.

Bolt,

Received the rods Tues. morning. From an appearance standpoint they are impeccable. I'm impressed. I'll have some thawed out water by Sat. and try to try one out on a catfish with a bluegill for bait. Not exactly the same as bass but the weight and technique will be similar. If I had to guess on performance based on appearance, tip flex and sensitivity, I'd say we have a winner. No damage to any of them in transit. Any youse guys need a fishin rod built, Bolt is the "MAN".

For any who haven't experienced the affliction of "trigger finger" or Thumb, the cure is worse than the damn disease. A knot forms on the tendon of a finger or thumb and "pops" as you flex the finger. NO FUN. Thank God it's my left thumb and not really a trigger finger.

John  

John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 11:14:00 (ZULU)

Robert Opp...

  The experience of hunting with ones' kids is priceless, as they say. Congrats. to you and your son.

  Here in the Alleghenies, taking ones first buck is sort of a right of passage, as hunting is a major part of the local culture; They even close school for the first week of deer season.

  My son, Brock took his first buck, an 8 point, about 16", when he was 11.  Shot it with a Model 7 FS in .223 with 69 gr. Speer bullet loaded to about 2800fps.  Not the ideal deer load, but it served him well and didn't beat him up with recoil.  He keeps shooting the s#*t out of that little rifle and I keep wondering when it will need a new barrel..When he got bigger, I took another model 7 in .243 and rebarrelled it to .250/3000 for him..That rifle has kept us in venison for many years, and this year his new wife used it to take her first buck..

  I wish your son much luck in the future as he pursues the tradition  of the outdoor life that is rapidly disappearing in  many parts of our nation.  

  outa here

   

Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Thinkin' of Spring in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 13:19:08 (ZULU)

6 MM  and Varget-- I finally decided to try the varget/175 combo that so many of you seem to like so much and my big rifle does not like it.  Tested lots of different velocity levels but nothing seemed to work.  It shoots little bitty groups with 168's but the best it would do with the 175's is 1.5", with most groups going over 2".  This was with 3 shot groups-  couldn't see the point of shooting 2 more with groups this big.  So now that I have 8 lbs of varget I thought I would give it a try in my 6 mm/40XB.  The rifle likes 85 gr sierra BTHP's .  Does anyone have any experience with this combo.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Rod      

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 13:34:39 (ZULU)

Rod,

I shoot a 243 with a 95gr Nosler BT using 33gr Varget/WLR.  It's good enough for consistant sub MOA perfromance out of a 1972 Rem 788 with a pitted barrel ;))  Sorry, I haven't chrono'd it.

It's also great in 223.  I use 24.3gr in LC cases with 205M's and both 69 and 80gr SMK's.(a bit hot with 80's)  The 80gr load put 12 shots into the x ring at 600 yards, from a sling, with iron sights.

If I could find a way to use Varget in my 6.5x284,,, I'd do it...

If you don't have any luck with it and you happen to travel through TN,, let me know I'll take it off your hands.  In lue of that,, PeteR runs a VarGet support group.  Meetings are Saturday and Sunday,, bring hearing protection.

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 14:28:16 (ZULU)


Story of a 32 year old Ivy Leaguer with a couple of Master's Degrees (one in stats), a wife, a couple of kids and a mortgage who joined the Jar-Heads as a private.  Absolutely splendid behavior.  

God bless him.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64247-2002Dec16.html

This is old news, but, in case anyone doesn't know, Sadaam provided al Qaeda with VX gas.  

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42876-2002Dec11.html

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 15:44:45 (ZULU)

Good day,

Quick question;  Anybody had a chance to do a hands-on eval of the Nikon Tactical line?  Optics, tracking, ruggedness???  How do they compare to Leupold, S&B, etc.?

Thanks,

T

Caison <tjsarchett@ezol.com>
Dela-where?, - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 16:25:41 (ZULU)

Hey Hawgs,

Hope everyone is doing fine, and also want to wish everybody a good hoiiday season.  

The reason I'm a hollering, I heard the boss say yesterday he is still looking for a qualified full-time armorer down here.  He would probably get to do some other things, but that would be his primary job.  I can't say what they would pay for that position, but this company tends to pay well.

You would have to be good with M16s,ARs,UZIs, MP5s, Glocks and Berretta/Taurus 92s.

You would probably be asked to help the Haitians with their weapons which also include M14s, Galils, and T65s.

If you are intrested, please e-mail me with a reseme attached.

Semper Fi,

Finger  

jim reifinger <ironhawk308@hotmail.com>
Port-Au-Prince, Haiti - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 18:03:38 (ZULU)

CDC - I think VX is most commonly encountered as a liquid..

Markwell - On that El Paso holster.. is that something fancy or are you simply talking about the standard tanker holster from WW2.  Someone is still making it and they can be purchase at a local hardware store near me for $30 US.  I have two, which are exact copies of the original I have, except the metal is bright chrome instead of black. I will check the stampings when I get home tonight.

medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 18:17:12 (ZULU)

Not much traffic across the DR these past couple of days.  When was the last pie fight over which is better between the HS stocks and McMillan???  

I'm with Caison, anyone done any testing on the Nikon Tactical yet?  Just looking at the price I'll still take the Loopie M3 LR but a good eval of their scope would be nice.

Happy holidays to all.

Nick

Nicholas Gebhardt <gebhardt02@yahoo.com>
Memphis, TN, US - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 18:52:48 (ZULU)

Sorry I jumped off so quick, but we had a small manifistation outside of the palace, so I had to go check things out.  All is fine they were pro-government folks.  Ahh the excitement of a third world nation. It keeps the blood pumping.

If you are really interested in this position and have the skills, we want to talk to you. It took a lot of hard work to convince the high-ups we needed one here.

I'll be glad when we hire one, because right now it's my job to keep the stuff working and I am a shooter not a gun plumber.  I wish now I would have paid more attention in the shop.

Later ya'all and S/F,

Finger

     

jim reifinger <ironhawk308@hotmail.com>
Port-Au-Prince, Haiti - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 19:36:44 (ZULU)

Ref: Ft.McCoy Shoot

Any new information??  GO/NO-GO?

Ref: ASC (Golf Tournament)

Dates?????

Ref: 6.5x.284

I mailed George his check today.  I've got all my stuff on order from Premier and Sinclair.  Now I wait..........

out

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 19:39:54 (ZULU)

Kevin-- The golf outing is still on - working on dates.  We are looking at mid to late May.  We are working out the timing for another PD trip.  Priorities,priorities.  Will have a date for the match soon -maybe this week end.  Will post info as soon as we can.  Can you handle back-to-back days on the golf course?  Lots of new treats are in the works.  I'm really anxious to see how the new stick shoots- you must be jumpig out of your skin.

  Rod    

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 21:11:42 (ZULU)


Yep, gun safety, some of these German dudes( and i'm sure it happens all over) spend a small fortune in money and a bunch of man hours on doing the damn hunting licence course and then seem to forget all the weapon safety they where told. You wouldn't believe the many many times i have recieved a rifle or a shot gun that needed working on, (in its gun slip or not) with a damn live round up the damn spout. I personaly believe that we should have to do yearly qualification in weapon handling and shooting skills( but then i did that in the military), we would then maybe have better proficiency, less accidents, and might even get some decent range complexes into the deal, certainly better marksmanship would have saved me a 8 km hike back and forth tracking a wounded ( in its dam lower rear leg of all places!) fallow deer this afternoon.

Is there a world record for total pig hunting hours in one go? I fancy having a go at beating it... i've been practicing. Left work yesterday and went and put some screens on the openings in the tree stand i've been winterising/rebuilding, installed a new type of bait feeder, ( been using a wooden box about the size of a shoe box with a brick on top) a round metal container, chained to a stake, it has holes in it which drop corn when the pigs nudge it about, I've been finding that i get the pigs hot on the bait by the time i come to do night shifts at work, then when i go home for a few days they loose interest when all the corn is gone, I hope this rig up keeps em interested by stopping em grabbing all the corn at one go. Any way, hame for a shower and back to the woods by 21.00 hrs, hadn't been there long when i heared pigs, the buggers wouldn't come out of the shadows though, the wind was not quite right and i figure i put a load of scent down when i was working on the stand, I'd found my pig grunter call (in my daughters toy box) the other day and decided to have a go at grunting the piggies in, well, bugger me i thought, it dam well worked,. every time i grunted, im got an answer, and pig or pigs where circling the stand, but i could tell they knew something wasn't quite right, maybe to much human scent on the feeder, I could make out dark shapes in the brush but couldn't get a clear shot, i could hear a few different groups of pigs, there where a couple of sows with young ones, a group of yearlings( 12 - 18 months 30-45 kg) and a couple of old boars. One of the sows came into full view for a few seconds, nose in the air, sniffing away, and finaly 4 pigs all about the same size crossed at the end of the clearing, but no chance of a shot, none of them would go near the bait, let em get used to it, then it should be ok. Left the woods at 07.00hrs got some breakfast and got ready for the days driven shoot. We where basicaly in the same area of forest as the other week, got on my stand, this time an elevated stand about 4ft off the ground, got all my kit squared away and got settled in, began to see  movement, a group of roe deer about 250m away, watched them for a while. 3 fallow deer came galloping  out the thickets, i got two of them as they broke left and right either side of me. Then a herd of pigs went tearing past to my rear, but they where to far and behind to much brush, saw more deer, but to far off for a shot, and then some more pigs doing the same as the others, hightailing it asap, to far to much brush. Gralloched the deer at the 11.30 pause, back on stand, saw some more deer but couldn't get a good shot so i didn't bother, then two of the beaters came my way, and stood at the corner of a plantation, 2 big boar came running towards me, one was wounded, then they saw the damn beaters and veered off the other way, bugger I thought. about a half hour to go and another bunch of pigs are making thioer escape in the thicket behind me, damn to far - to thick. Then a lone pig, (maybe 50 kg) come back the way they went, but is a bit closer in a little more open ground, ah.. i wound the scope up a bit, swung through him, lined up with his nose, which wasn't easy as he was zig zagging between the trees, just as i was about to shoot, he headed directly for me ( about 125m) ah, easy shot i thought, lined up, zig, off he goes to my left, followed through again, zag- off he went to the right, this carried on until he had passed me to my left and was heading directly away from me, each time i had wanted to shoot, he did his Mohammed Ali shuffle and side stepped, that little guy had read his infantry training manual, that was a hard target if i ever saw one, I wasn't going to shoot him in the back as he was heading away from me,he had beat me fair and square, he brought a broad smile to my face, good luck to him. Just before close, a couple more fallow deer apeared galloping across to my rear, i shot the smaller of the two. That made 3 shots and 3 clean kills.

We gathered up all the shot animals and then had to do some "Nachsuche"searching for wounded deer/pigs. thats when the hike started, some one always manages to shoot some thing in the damn foot, and that hardly slows the animal down, but it is a shame to let it suffer. An interesting day, not as big a bag as last time, but still not bad, 36 hunters, shot 20 pigs and 20 deer. Night shift tonight,then 370km back home for a doc's appointment and another hunt in the morning, hectick week(again).

Pete

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 21:51:01 (ZULU)

DESIGNATED MARKSMAN COURSES:

Interested in hearing from military types who have run these courses.  I have just put one together and would like to match notes.

Pls respond to me at:

jeff.waters1@us.army.mil

Merry Christmas everyone

Jefe <diabloazul01@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 23:07:30 (ZULU)

John,

   The cure for "trigger finger"?...are we talking the hypo needle into the joint, or the minor surgery? The needle into the joint is a fun one isn't it?

  grin and bear it

Louis Meyer <Stoner25MKIV@aol.com>
Floyds KNobs, Indiana, - Tuesday, December 17, 2002, at 23:34:36 (ZULU)

Byron,

    The new version 2 Longrange simulator...is it just me or are the windage values in the sample version screwed up?

sorry about the double post....out

Louis <Stoner25MKIV@aol.com>
Floyds Knobs, Indiana, - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 00:12:57 (ZULU)

Damn ! I like Rumsfeld.

brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 00:43:10 (ZULU)

Excellent quicky on VX Liquid/Gaseous states: http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/mom/vx/VX.htm

Nasty, nasty stuff! There was a special on one of the cable channels about the dude in Yermany that developed a lot of the WWI gases leading up to VX. On the same subject, just got home from giving a presentation on Hazmat to 9 girls and a guy in a health care explorer post. These kids were actually interested in what I has to say, I was impressed. There is hope, albeit small, for the next generations of heads of mush. BTW, if I was the guy, I would continue membership with that group. 9-1 ain't bad odds.

John,

Man I was really worried that the rods would be stiffer than what you were looking for. A stiff rod is good for a lot of things, but sometimes not for live baiting. If your guys like the concept, there are a world of variables out there for live baiting rods.

Sam (winner of the riffle raffle rod),

Rod should be there tomorrow dude. If you like yours, I'll be 2 for 2.

Loius,

Cortisone shot in the finger joint ain't that bad. They give you a towell to bite on. Course you could get likkered up and have your wifie take you to the doc. Try getting a cortisone shot in the arch and heel of your foot for plantar facitis. I actually bent the rail on the doc's bed, but I didn't say dirty words outloud.

On shooting,

Damn I wish I had some time to. Thinking of taking a week off and burning all the boolits that I have. Having withdrawals. Master Cockerham seems to be also.

Nuff said, Bolt out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 01:59:47 (ZULU)

Bolt,

  Towel to bite down on?....no wonder I felt cheated when I had it done. I was supposed to get a series of 3 shots, but being the wus I am I din't go back after the first. One seemed to take care of it for several months but it's locking up again now. Especially after a good workout in the gym. Oh, mine wasn;t cortizone either, some other unknown burning fire.

Louis <Stoner25MKIV@aol.com>
Floyds Knobs, IN, USA - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 02:35:25 (ZULU)

Bolt,

Do you have a website that shows some of your rods (fishing rods that is)?  I'm thinking of eventually getting my dad a custom rod someday.  He mainly likes flyfishing (eastern PA, NY state and an anual trip to Canada)and appreciates a good stick.  I think he has one Orvis and a bunch of other less expensive ones.  I just thoughth somefin' more specialer would be nice.

Later,

Rich

Rich S. <RS1441@aol.com>
Bal'mer, - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 04:39:39 (ZULU)

Let it snow!

 

~You have just been hit with an snow ball!~

It's the start of.....

Snow Ball Fight 2002 - 2003!!

One rule to this game....

You can NOT hit someone who has already hit you!

Now...

go out there and get as many people as you can,

before they get you!

I got you first! and you can't get me back!

Merry Christmas

Semper FI

bomac <biker3@earthlink.net>
- Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 04:43:04 (ZULU)

    I see that algor is not running for the Presidency in 2004. That's really too bad! Could you imagine the pie fight during the primaries and at the Convention? That much bad juju all in one place would've done nothing but hurt the Dems' chances in the election. Can someone out there figure out a way to get algor to change his mind? He can make Nancy Pelosi his running mate.

    Saw an interesting T-shirt today. It read "Just because you spent $15,000 and rode for 15 minutes it still doesn't make you a biker". Change a couple of words and it applies to some guys with rifles!

    H-S Precision stocks vs. McMillan? I have a few of both. H-S is better for the quick drop-in (maybe a little bedding and tweaking) full length aluminium V-block, a bit less costly, and a bit lighter on most models. McMillan offers many more styles and options, can do lots of custom work, take longer to get, generally cost more and are heavier. I like both brands, it just depends on what I'm looking for!

ALAN

ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 05:04:30 (ZULU)


This VX thing is no joke.  Smallpox isn't funny either.  Whether or not we off Sadaam, we have a good chance of taking a hit.  If this mideval scum dares, Bush will make examples of them. Ask the surviving Taliban.

The alternative is to hope and deny and cower and die at our enemies' leisure.

Screw that.  Rummy and Bush have it right.  Preempt the bastards.  Kill them now.

There's a lot of talk about our war on terror losing us friends.  Machiavelli said that it is better to be feared than loved.  Wilt Chamberlin said that nobody roots for Goliath.  He'd know, so we may as well be feared.  

BLU-82s speak the universal language.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 05:20:22 (ZULU)

Any of you know any details on the H&K G3? A friend has a chance to get one for $400 NIB. Not sure of any other details. It sounds like a deal but I don`t know anything about them. He just wants a decent lead machine/fun gun and doesn`t want to go broke in the process. Parts avail? Reliable? Semi-accurate? Thanks for any info.

BTW, scored a nice four point in W V several weeks ago with the "M" Unfortunately, I misjudged the angle of approach due to fog (atmospheric and cranial) and placed one round squarely in the boiler room... only to have it exit near the hip on the outgoing side. Can you say "Ooooooo...yucky!" I did. Took me an hour to find him and near dark. Oh the things we learn (re-learn?).

Also, hope all of you have a safe and sane Christmas. Sorry, I`m not PC...

Speed Racer <mosseater@earthlink.net>
Dillsburg, PA, USA - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 06:51:56 (ZULU)


Speed Racer,

I once bought a "H&K 91 in mint condition" from a friend of a good friend. Once the "friend of a friend" was long gone, (with my money!) I got to finnally see the weapon. It was complete POS! It was not a H&K, but a H&K clone built up with tired G3 parts. Big blobbs of weld marks were visible, it was completely disgusting.

After the multiple attempts to locate the individual and get my money back were unsucessful, I simply shipped it off to my dealer with the instructions to get whatever he could for it. I was embarrassed to even have it in my safe! I never fired it, or even cleaned the turd.

I only offer the above comments as a warning that if it sounds like a "really good deal" that it might not really be that good a deal after all!

Don't purchase it without really verifying what it is!

Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 08:22:03 (ZULU)

Does anyone have any load info on the .280 Ak imp?  I'm hving one built for my father for xmas, and I want to give him some rounds to shoot.  I appreciate your help.

Mayhem

Mayhem <killare@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 09:37:57 (ZULU)

LouisM,

They numbed it with lidocaine, in the first knuckle of the thumb, took the syringe off the needle and put a new one with 1/2 cc of cortisone on it and said,"is it numb yet?" They could have bypassed the lido. No towel anywhere in site. I asked if the cure was worse than the disease and the doc just laughed. Then I knew I was in trouble. I guarantee the one Bolt took in the foot hurt worse!!! GD man. OUCH twice.

Bolt,

It's supposed to be in the high 50's today. I'm gonna burn some ammo and resight a couple rifles and then fish this afternoon. I'll give ya a detailed email report later. I gave two away for Christmas. The guys LOVED 'em. Big Hit! Thanx!

John

John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 10:30:34 (ZULU)


Cortizone injections,  

I have three disk bulges in by back and one attempt I tried to stay in the Army was to schedule a series of Cortizone injections in my spine, between L2 and L3.  The doc numbed me up and then was called away for an emergency room visit (milityary hospital).  By the time he got back the injection had worn off.  He wanted me to sit on the table and bend my head to my knees while he gave the injections.  After about the 5th time of him scraping the needle across one of my vertibrate he asked me to get into the fetal position on my side, where he forced a needle between the cartilage and the vertibrate and proceeded to pump two syringes of that crap into my spine.  It felt like an egg sitting in there.

It did work for about 30 days,, but when it started to wear off and it came time to go back for round two,, I passed...

So,, enjoy your cortizone expierence,, it's something I'll never forget.

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
I've laughed, I've Cried, I've learned how to Cook Cat , I've also learned that you'll be able to shoot 20 shats,,, er,, shots,, at 500, 600 and 1000 yards at the AEDC on Dec 15th,, drop me a mail for more info. , - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 12:16:17 (ZULU)

Guys take it from a nurse that use to work the Operating Room and also had a trigger finger problem...get it fixed right the first time!!! Screw them cortisone shots! Take 1/2 a day for the surgery...door to door, and it solves the problem forever...in THAT finger!! Mine was in the...OK NO COMMENTS REMEMBER I CAN DELETE YOU...middle finger right hand! Had it fixed 3 years ago and never regretted it!!

Sarge, with his good finger posed on the delete keys!

Sarge <sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 13:49:52 (ZULU)

Speed Racer,

The HK-G3 is the full-auto (Class-III) version of the HK-91.  An HK91 in very good condition is ~$2K, NIB ~$2.8K, terrible shape ~$1.7K.  The clones, such as CETME, etc., typically go for ~$400+/-.

A real HK-G3, in any condition, will go for a MINIMUM of $5K, probably much higher.  I can't afford (or want) these, so I'm not up on the pricing.

Even if it is a real HK-G3, and really is only $400, you still have a ton of paperwork to fill out, assuming the local PD will allow you to own a Class-III weapon. Then you get to talk with the ATF.

The entire scenario is nonsense.  Go to www.gunsamerica.com to get an idea of what HKs go for, or www.calssportingarmory.com.

Class-III weapons should not be purchased on a whim.

Duman <steve_duey@hp.com>
- Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 15:30:46 (ZULU)

Louis,

I didn't really look at them in much detail, guess I'll have to go back and check it again while I wait for my copy to get here.

Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 15:34:22 (ZULU)

The McCoy deal is still on AFAIK.  Joe M has said that the people up there have pretty much dropped their rucks for the holidays and so nothing from the McCoy people is going to happen until after New Years.  I have received the OK for a couple vehicles from my Bn so we'll have a back up plan to get there, and I have not asked for the aircraft yet, pretty much for the same reasons as mentioned above, plus I don't have solid dates yet.  As soon as I get solid dates, I'll jump on the planning and let you guys know.  

I'm also doing a lot of planning for an indoc/selection to boost numbers in the platoon right now, so that's eating up my time also.  Sorry, but I've got to put work before pleasure.  

280AI:  I have not received my rifle yet, but the dies are on the way from Redding.  Varmint hunter magazine had a good article on the 280AI in this monthes edition, and Nosler lists loads in their reloading manual.  What bullets do you plan on using?  What powders do you have?  Narrow it down a little and I'll see what I can do.

Anybody ever try the 19caliber cartridges from Calhoon?  I'm thinking of getting the 22 Hornet Ruger rebarreled and this 19 Calhoon(Hornet case blown out and necked down) critter looks kinda neat.

Last thing, anyone have or use a Cooper rifle?  They look like the cat's ass for a nifty little, semi-custom light varminter and I'd like to know if there's any hidden glitches that I don't know about.  Everything I've seen has been positive so far.  S/F...Ken M          

Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
Occupied people's republic of IL, USA - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 16:16:16 (ZULU)

Bolt, that VX site you posted?

Atropine to the heart....!?  Reminds me of the scene in Pulp Fiction where Uma Thurman recovers from a Heroin overdose when the "antidote", a large dose of Epinephrine, is administered directly through her sternum, into her heart, via a VERY large needle. (what's wrong with Narcan?)

As a medic, I advise everyone to avoid having anything sharp inserted into your heart...unless, of course, you are dead, in which case, it's OK <grin>.

Dead collector: Bring out your dead!

<snip>

Collector: Here. He says he's not dead.

Man: Yes he is.

Old Man: No I'm not!

Collector: He isn't?

Man: Well he will be soon. He's very ill.

Old Man: I'm getting better!

Man: No you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment.

http://www.moviesounds.com/holygral.html

medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 18:19:28 (ZULU)

Alan and Lito,

You've got mail. No attachments.

MK4

MK4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 19:08:19 (ZULU)

Atropine goes in the meaty portion of the thigh, or alternatively the ass cheek.  You want to stick some large gauge needle into your heart, which is at 120+ psi pressure, you feel free.  Just don't point the resulting geyser of blood at me, cause I'll beat your ass and make sure no medical help arrives.  Darwin is hard at work again.  S/F...Ken M    

Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
Occupied people's republic of IL, USA - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 20:11:35 (ZULU)

Ref: Atropine Autoinjectors

TINS (This Is No Shit)....While attending IOBC at the Ft.Benning School for Boys I attended a Bugs'n Gas Class.  The instructor took out an atropine autoinjector and began to explain why a "meaty" spot should be chosen for the injection in order to avoid sticking the needle into a bone.  The instructor then pressed a loaded injector against the backside of a 1/2" plywood sign.  There was a loud "thunk" and atropine sprayed the first two rows of soldiers in the class.  Those things are serious pieces of equipment.  I'd have to be dieing to use one.

out

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 20:31:42 (ZULU)

>>>Any of you know any details on the H&K G3? A friend has a chance to get one for $400 NIB.<<<

Yeah, I know some details about H&K G3s.  I know you ain't gonna buy a NIB one for $400!  Even if that's a misprint and you forgot a "0" a NIB G3 will set you back close to $6,000.  Plus several months of mental pain waiting for the ATF to approve your purchase since it's an NFA class weapon (full auto).

What you're probably looking at is a H&K 91 clone parts gun, maybe built by Hesse Arms or Century Arms on a POS receiver with worn out parts and a barrel with chicken pox, in somebody's garage by somebody following preprinted instructions, without benefit of any proper H&K alignment jigs or tooling (which is vital).  In which case it's probably worth ~$400.

I just had a 91 clone built by a former Vollmer smith (one of only three guys in the US building quality 91s) on an FMP receiver with new parts on H&K equipment.  Cost me $1,600 and one year to complete.

>>>Not sure of any other details.<<<

SpeedRacer, tell your friend to find out everything he can about the gun before parting with his money.  It's only $400 but with some of the crap that's passed off as "H&K" guns, it's worse than throwing money into the crapper.

But then he can say, "Lookie, I got a H&K G3!  Yippie!"  

Moe

Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 21:32:16 (ZULU)

Moe,

  Saw your reference to Vollmer, ordered a HK53 from them several years ago..excellent craftsmanship. Wish I had picked up a few more of them considering the price 51's and 53's fetch today. Someone said Class 3's shouldn't be bought on a whim...hmmmmm...good ones are good investments in my opinion. They are expensive to feed though.

  lou lou out

Louis <Stoner25MKIV@aol.com>
Floyds Knobs , In., USA - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 22:16:11 (ZULU)

'Lito or other Rostah Hawgs:    

    A Winchester question for ya!  I adjusted the Stealth trigger down to slightly under 3 lbs, and it works mighty fine.  On the 7mag I couldn't get less than 4lbs so a coil of the spring departed....but still cannot get less than 4-5lbs without running out of spring tension (ie; striker won't cock).  So, I'm ordering a couple new springs hoping they'll be a tad lighter, or should I be looking at something else?  Suggestions appreciated, and Merry Christmas to all!

Jerry S. <jtmstor@rrv.net>
Snow Country, MN, USA - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 22:17:10 (ZULU)

Damn, didn't realize I was playing to such a tough audience. Yeah, yeah the guy was a little off on antidote administration but the poop was still good. I wrote the guy an email so that he can clarify.

Remember that before the Mark 1 kit, there were really really long needles! No heart beat, no Mark 1/2-Pam, must go into heart muscle with CPR. Sarge confirm!

Here is another one of my hundred or so sites for bio and methyl-ethyl-bad-shit information.

http://www.er365.com/er365lowbandwidth/germ%20warfare-nerve%20gas-anthrax-biological%20warfare%20treatment.htm

Kevin,

If you have to use one YOU ARE DYING! I carry Epi-pens even in the winter. Better than nuttun.

On the cortisone,

Also, there are only so many shots that they will put into an area before it starts causing soft tissue damage (according to my bone doc). Told me that the next time the plantar facitis problem starts up, he is going to start cutting tightening.

Rich,

Don't have a website, way to frigging expensive. I have a couple of pics that I am going to try to paste onto one of those freebie photo sites tonight. Serious fly fishermen are very anal about what they buy (I know cause I used to be a fly fisherman and I am still anal about lots o stuff). Anywho, it is hard to compete against the Winstons and Orvis's of the world. I could use the same components, build them better and charge less and they still wouldn't sell without those logos. I love to build those little toothpicks though!

CDC,

Iffin there is even a sniff of NBC stuff, we ought to turn the place into a giant glass skating rink.

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 22:19:49 (ZULU)


Bolt:  A couple of weeks ago the administration said some technical mumbo-jumbo that sounded something like, "any use of WMDs against our civilian population or military forces would be met with the full range of our response capabilities."  

"Full range" is code for nukes.

Item 18 at the bottom of this page suggests that 60% of the American people agree with that policy.  Works for me.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/vault/stories/data121802.htm

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 22:39:29 (ZULU)

Gents

I hope everyone is well.  I have been tied up again for the past few weeks and have been really slow to respond to some e-mails.  My apologies.  I will catch up soon.

Pete Lincoln

Just wanted to let you know that I have not received the Steyr rings.  I sent you an e-mail, but it bounced.  If you have sent them, you might want to put a trace on them.  Thanks again.  Please hit my e-mail below if you need to pass along any information as the Roster is hit-and-miss for me lately.

In case I don't get the chance in the next week, I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Semepr Fi

Paul <paulcockerham@yahoo.com>
NC, USA - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 01:14:34 (ZULU)

Bolt, I'll sort of confirm...in my current line of work (ER nurse) I haven't seen a cardiac needle - the VERY LONG needles you were probably refering to, used. Most all our drugs now days are given by the good old IV route that most of our great paramedics - and NO I'm NOT be sarcastic our Medics really are great - put in prior to the patients ever getting to us. The point of any type of medical care and it doesn't make any difference what we're talking about, car accident, cut off limb, snotty runny nose, NBC the ultimate care is rapid arrival at an appropriate treatment facility. And most of the Medics I know, both civilian and military, are pretty well able to deal with this stuff. Unfortunately time will tell!

Sarge

Sarge <sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 01:57:58 (ZULU)

Sometimes minimal camoflage is better!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2800335438

An interesting bandolier?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2800337901

Extension of minimal camoflage shown above.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2800404391

And finally, Special Operations camo for North Pole.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1905006284&category=4844

Sweet dreams, Bolt out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 03:18:58 (ZULU)

Needles,

        When I was fourteen years old I watched helplessly as the Doc sunk a very long cardiac needle into my dad. First time I had ever even heard of that. He didn't make it.

        I've had cortisone injected directly into my spine and a shoulder joint on several different occasions. Two spinal shots one month apart back in 1972 by a great orthopedic Doc (advisor to then - Pres. Nixon). Didn't feel anything more than a sting. No more trouble!

About eight years ago a local orthopod hit me twice in my left shoulder, again about four weeks apart. Just a sting, so I had to ask him how come? He explained that doctors who are very experienced specialists know exactly where to give the injection and just how to administer it. Just a matter of training and practice. Worked for me:-)

ALAN

ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 05:15:41 (ZULU)

In case I wasn't the only one who couldn't access the ac-130 video posted here a few days ago, click on my name for a link, scroll down, the link is in one of the post.

I found this link in a search, not a member of this club.

Bob

Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
ne, ca, USA - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 05:34:15 (ZULU)


Hey Bolt,

We see where you've been spending your spare time lately ;)) Christmas presents for Mrs. Bolt, I presume? ;))))

--

Nothing in our protocols about sticking a needle into a heart!!  That'll get my Paramedic license yanked in a New York second for sure. If NBC becomes imminent, all of that could change... possibly :(( We only carry Atropine for medical and organophosphate poisoning. Nerve gas is only an "also mention." We sure don't have any 2-Pam to go with it either (and you're damn well going to need it with a 5mg injection).

We may have some serious "catching-up" to do and you Haz-Mat Medics will have to lead the way.

--

MK4

MK4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 05:34:39 (ZULU)

Now there's the Bolt I know! Fun fun fun...... You'll be getting incoming tomorrow, no nasties. I'd bid on something like that, but they never give me everything in the picture when I do, the crooks.

Thanks for the tips guys, I got the material going just fine. Now I'm looking for other stuff, same project.

Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 05:41:28 (ZULU)

Hazmat medics:  Time will tell if you're ready.  Maybe not much time.  All the news reports say that Sadaam intends to take as many of us with him as he can.  His command structure may not follow his Doomsday orders.  Maybe they will.  If they do, the administration intends to make examples of them.  Fine with me.

The SDI deployment in Alaska is meant to screw up NK's "bee sting" strategy.  It's funny how the media is playing up our 50% probability of getting a one round hit on a missle.  Infantry rifle rounds have something like a 1/40,000 chance of getting a hit.  I wonder if The New York Times would cite that as a reason to stop issuing rifles to our grunts.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 06:00:11 (ZULU)

Can we please all chip in and get Litosan a PC that works ??

I fear the MAC has him listed as MIA.

Lito where are You??

Steve from Joisey

Steven Dzupin <sdzupin@optonline.net>
Wayne, New Joisey, US of A - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 11:46:18 (ZULU)

Pete, try to reach you on your mail

Please answer

Val Sessink <v.sessink1@chello.nl>
- Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 12:21:50 (ZULU)

Chris & Yotebait...

  I got a chance to cronograph my loads and "May" have found some of my problems with the stringing at long range. I was getting as high as 50fps difference in some of the strings.

  I don't understand where its coming from either. All of my charges are very consistant. The only thing I was noticing is that after sizing down the Lapua brass (308) to the 260 my bullets seat a little tighter than I like.

  On the flip side of this I sized down some Lapua brass several years ago for my 260 and never had any problems with them. With that kindof spread in velocity that can make as much as 6" to 7" in point of impact at 700 and 800yds.

  Another thing is, now, when I was crongraphing the loads, it shot like crap at 100yds. I am begining to think I am going backwards!!!

 After I first got it back and put it in the stock I noticed that I had just a tad bit of movment between the stock and barrel when I loosened and tightened the front action screw. When it shot so well at 100 and 200 I didn't give it anymore thought but to be on the safe side I rebeded it again last night.

  Its probably going to be awhile now before I get back out to see if I did any good. Our weather has turned to crap and winter has arrived!!

  Yotebait, coyote hunting in the hills sucked!! We killed 4 but just didn't see many. The pastures and grass lands are nearly dirt from the hot dry summer we had. Things look really bad, if we don't get some snow and rain we will really be in trouble next year.

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 14:36:03 (ZULU)

Pat,

This may be obvious, but sometimes we overlook these things.  When you neck down cases, the necks get thicker.  If these cases were thicker to begin with they could be on the high end of the scale and this could be creating your seating tension difference.  ALso, necking down can creat the "dreaded doughnut" inside the case.  Maybe a little inside reaming is in order (if your bullets are seated out far enough to contact the ring).

Did you also say you had to switch primers?  Maybe that was someone else...

T

Caison <tjsarchett@ezol.com>
Dela-Where?, - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 16:03:06 (ZULU)

Gents,

 I finally got a shot on the shrew that's been driving my wife crazy in the old farm-house.  Yeah, I said "shot"...I had Blake's old Crossman pellet gun in hand as I returned from the barn from my mouse expedition, came through the front door as the shrew-monster was hopping down the stairs into the basement.  They move perty-quick for not opening their eyes much!  Now, I hastily tossed in a pellet and pumped twice--took the shot from the old two eyed room clearin' technique and nailed him in mid-hop.  Part instinct, mostly luck.  Afterwards, I court martialed my cat.  He is not living up to his end of the deal. Old Tom' the cat is confined to the barn, reduced to private and placed on half-rations.  My first "field grade" UCMJ action.  How lazy is a cat that can't catch a damn shrew? Maybe the half-rations will help his hunting skills along.

On the serious side, the Kuwait thing is moving forward.  Admin shit is coming at me.  This is also surpisingly lucrative--who'd a thunk it?  I'd go for the adventure potential, but the cash incentive is substancial--it must be hard to find majors to fill these jobs.  With the sound of guns in the distance, you'd think the line would be long to get over there...Not so, and I find that a bit strange...

Joe M.

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 17:12:19 (ZULU)


Joe M:  That's very strange.  After the attacks I was sure that Army and Marine Combat Arms would be swamped with volunteers.  They weren't.  I don't understand this.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 17:35:15 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas Rostah!

Pat, you don't have any of the 'old' Lapua brass around to try out, do ya?  oh, and it's nice to hear that the weather's went to hell back there, just in time....  We have a white christmas type look, but it ain't snow.. It's frost that hangs around all day.  that and frozen fog.

later

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 17:36:46 (ZULU)

Dan,

 My conversation with my branch manager went like this--"Joe, dude I can hook you up..."  "we have this and that and this and that" (all choice stateside deals from SOCOM to flight instructor)  I asked, "got anything in the hot spots?"  SILENCE.  Then he says "you're kiddin' me right?  Man, I've gotta fill these Kuwait billets, but I can't find anybody willing to go...."  

The rest is history from there.  But I wondered...why aren't there more like me wanting to go?  Is it family time for my peers or what?  Yeah, it's a short tour...but hell, we are all likely to be there anyway right?  May as well use it to get choice on return.  Among other things, this is important to keep Nicole in her clinic...but where are the warriors?????

JBM

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 18:06:06 (ZULU)

Joe,

 It's that whole "Army of One" thing working.  Few march to the sound of the guns anymore.  Those that do are reviled by those driving SUVs to junior soccer matches.  "it's Tommy this and Tommy that..."

out

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 18:29:24 (ZULU)


>>where are the warriors?????<<

Joe - I believe you'll need a mirror to answer that question.

"No man was ever endowed with a right without being at the same time saddled with a responsibility." - Gerald W. Johnson

medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 18:35:24 (ZULU)

Gents,

The People's Republik of Kalifornia is at it again.  Civil liberties?  I guess they only apply if you're Anglo, Asian, Hispanic or Negro.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021219/wl_nm/attack_immigration_dc_4

And they thought they were leaving it all behind...

T

Caison <tjsarchett@ezol.com>
- Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 18:40:56 (ZULU)

Joe,

Those Joint tours are great, make a lot of connections that way. Yeah it sucks to be away from the Fam, but I guess we are in the kinder, gentler military now a days. The "hardship" must me too much for most to bear. Hopefully after P-cola and sloshin' around in the Phrogg at the FRS, I'll see ya over there

Any one got a good load for 175SMK's @2580? Got a whole can of Lake City match .308 brass that is doing a whole lot of nothing in the closet right now, so I guess I'll load the stuff.

Kush out

Phroggs Phorever

Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
Pensacola, Florida, - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 18:59:21 (ZULU)

Warrior--ha. Double ha!  I was briefed yesterday on the financial benefits of my volunteerin' to go there--and now I am a mercenary!  Damn if there ain't some serious bennies.  Tax breaks, separation pay, combat zone pays, and special per diems.  All that and another combat patch.  

 And here I was worried that I wouldn't get the assignment due to a high demand....I just don't get it.  Now I learn that the money is good too, and I'm double-baffled!  I think Kevin nailed it with the Tommy soccer mom thing...

Joe

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 19:10:23 (ZULU)

No new warriors? There's a new generation out there between Desert Storm and the events of today. The same liberal yuppie scumbags that elected Clinton/Gore and kept them in office for eight years despite their criminal acts are also responsible for todays young people who are not joining our "Army of One". Ask Johnny Taliban!

You guys who are active military may not be getting the same signals from our troops in the war zones that I'm getting. I hear a lot of feedback about inaction, PC warfare, trial and prosecution for taking the inititive to the enemy, CO's whose main fear is battlefield casualties, and kowtowing to some pisspot tinhorn raghead leader who's main fun in life is making himself look like a bigshot in front of his fellow goat fuckers at the expense of thr Americans.

We've got far too many Generals who are only concerned with their career paths, too many politicians who are only concerned with the poll figures from their constituents, and too many faggot Ivy League wonks in Foggy Bottom, and a liberal press, who do nothing but push their One World/United Nations adgenda.

We didn't strike when the iron was hot after 9/11, we didn't rally our people (and we could have) immediately, and now many are either indifferent or demoralized. I posted about the possibility of this happening right after 9/11, and was roundly rebuked by several here in the Military, and I don't blame them in the least. How can they keep up their morale, and the morale of their troops, if they bought into my theories? It doesn't make me feel at all good about saying "I told you so", but I'm drawing from personal experience in SEA thirty five years ago. Our politicians can't seem to learn from history.

In any case, for those of you who are heading into harms way, may God be with you, may you prevail in battle, and may you be just be plain lucky!

ALAN

ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 20:10:00 (ZULU)

Caison..

 Yea, I know thats whats causing the tight fit an its not all that bad. I had thought about reaming but I have a ton of other brass to try too.

JR..

 You damn bet you I do!! I have all of it left and will try some when it clears up and quits blowing again. 25 to 35mph today gusting to 45mph. Been that way for the last 3 days!!

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 20:15:01 (ZULU)

I just read that kalifornistan is about to spend 35 billion dollars more than it has projected for income...Grey-area Davis never met a dollar projection he couldn't outspend.  

I have a brilliant idea.

Let's take our "african zillions" and buy Kalifornistan for pennies on the dollar.  It would make for a great range complex...heheheheh.

And hey, why aren't those socially conscious celebs breaking out their checkbooks to help out?  Charity starts at home, right?  Or is their endless bleating on what "we as a country" ought to be doing in this world just noise?  Why ain't they puttin some money where their mouth's been?  ...snicker.  

I just might go to the foreclosure just to keep the PRC from buying that dump...snicker-snicker.  

I jes' love it when the Democrats have the opportunity to prove their fiscal abilities on such a grand scale...Baaaaaaw-haawww-hawwwwww...

Ouch...my sides are hurtin'...Baaaw-haawwwww!

Joe M.

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 20:23:43 (ZULU)

Kush,

That slow ya might as well throw 'em.

Winchester brass  Fed210   175 SMK   VV N-150 45.2 grains  2605

Winchester  Fed210   175 SMK   VV N-550 44.5 grains  2598

Winchester  Fed210   175 SMK   IMR-4064 43.5 grains  2588

everything tested at 1099'ASL and 74 degrees  10 twist 23.5 inch barrel.

Mike inTexas <mcdonald@hcn.hcnews.com>
Granbury, Texas, - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 20:33:17 (ZULU)

Kevin:  "Those that do are reviled by those driving SUVs to junior soccer matches..."

Hello?

I don't know what it's like around where you live, but I drive a SUV to junior soccer matches.  It bores the s**t out of me.  Most all the dads are gun-owning Republicans who respect the fine kids who've put themselves in harm's way.  

ALAN:  We've got 70% support for deposing Sadaam and 60% support FOR NUKING HIS ASS if he uses WMDs.  That's pretty solid support.

I'm just wondering why young American men didn't stampede the recruiters on the afternoon of  9/11/'01.

They grew up on those stupid Sylvester ("sufferin' succotash") Stallone and Steven Segall movies.  They wear "No Fear" t-shirts.

I don't know what to think.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 20:38:39 (ZULU)

CDC,

Good reply on the SUV thing.  HA!  I drive mine (Xterra w/ "Got Mildots?" and "Legalize Freedom" bumper stickers) to LR matches as well as cheerleading practices.  Years ago it was the Volvo 'wagon to socceer matches while I was active duty.

Oh.  The Xterra not only wears the above bumper stickers, but it also has a H-D sticker (we ride a suicide-shift '72 stripper FL 74), American Flag and "Retired USMC" stickers in the rear window.

(But I call it a "truck"!)

So much for the "SUV drivin' Liberal" theory...

HA!

Just yankin' you folks that believe in that theory!

hee hee.

Semper-Fi!

Spud

dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
merced, Kalifornicateya, USA - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 22:20:15 (ZULU)

Politicians;

    The reason politicians don't learn from history is because they are busy revising it. Don't want to be offend anyone or teach people about mankind's shortcomings. Kinda like why is it you never see WW2 cartoons on TV?

Kush;

   I'm in Mobile. I can get that LC match brass if it's in your way.

LATER  Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 23:27:49 (ZULU)

Ref: SUVs

Ok..Ok...I'm sorry....I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.  I should be more sensitive.  What I wrote was hurtful and and mean sprited.  Bwaaahhahahahahhaaaa.!!!!!

out

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 00:06:24 (ZULU)


Kevin:  Some part of this conversation went right by me.  Driving a SUV in New York must mean something different than driving one in Idaho.  We're not what you'd call overly sensitive.  

I'm not going to get in another useless pissing contest.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Friday, December 20, 2002, at 00:48:38 (ZULU)

Mike in Tejas,

Thanks mang

Yeah, I know it's slow, but that's what speed my scope on my rifle is set up to track, pretty much the M118LR in a nut shell. It is appreciated.

Jody,

That's why I'm loading it up, tired of lookin at it, and besides, new manufactured ammo is killing the bank account. Any good ranges in the area? We have a piddly range here in Santa Rosa county, but I need to start hitting the distance to fine tune the longer range settings.

Joe, you kill me

Later Hawgs

Semper Fi

Kush out

Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
Pensacola, Florida, - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 00:50:17 (ZULU)

SUV COUNTRY!!

Now Andy's Dad,  I don't FEEL (you know, like a LIBERAL would...) hurt or disenfranchised, or even offended because of your comments.  Just an excuse to get on here and do a little yankin'.  (NOT wankin')

hee hee.

And I DO laugh at them's that can't figure out to park them BIG ones.  

 Sounds like we got a bunch of turds that just want the pay and security moreso than the old days even.  Can't even call the coc*suc*ers wannabes.

And I hate a wannabe as much as I hate an ass-kisser.

Spud

dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
merced, Kalifornicateya, usa - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 01:05:22 (ZULU)

Louis wrote:

"Someone said Class 3's shouldn't be bought on a whim...hmmmmm...good ones are good investments in my opinion. They are expensive to feed though."

I would love to acquire some NFA weapons, but my local PD chief won't even talk to me about this stuff, let alone sign off on such things.

I said the 'whim' comment because Speed Racer is clearly in over his head.  I think that stuff makes for great investments, and great fun. Don't know if my Dillon could keep up with the grocery bill............

Duman <steve_duey@hp.com>
- Friday, December 20, 2002, at 01:10:26 (ZULU)

Ok it can quit snowing any day now!  I just got a savage 12bvss in 22-250 and can't even shoot it, this is driving me crazy.  

Suv thing:  I have a truck and an Suv, both 4x4. It's just part of life in the hills, cars with 4" of ground clearence don't do too well in 2 feet of snow.  Did you guys see the comercial about "What would Jesus drive?"  trying to slam suv owners for not caring about the earth?  Saw this guy on fox news come up with the best answer yet.  "Jesus was a carpenter, he would be driving a full size 4wd truck with a V8 and a lumber rack."

CDC:  Did you know a Chem teacher at ISU, last name Phelps, husband is an ER Doc, now live in Chico?

Back to counting snow flakes.

Bob

Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
snowy, Ca, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 02:50:06 (ZULU)

Dennis (Spud):

I agree with you completely. Ass-kissers, Ha ;)

JLU

Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 03:02:22 (ZULU)


Whoever is harvesting addresses off this site is wasting their time with me.  I'm not sending my bank account numbers to Bongo Bongo, and I'm not going to any porn sites.  The girls weren't issued first rate genetic material and they look like they don't floss.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Friday, December 20, 2002, at 03:29:17 (ZULU)

Duman

 You say your local police chief won't sign off for a Class 3 weapon you want?....bypass him, or her. I had assumed when I went to buy one that I had to have the local sheriff/police chiefs OK. It can be any number of "political" electee's (is that a word?). If you are in a Class 3 state, you can get certain judges signature, your representative or senator, not sure which, maybe either, or one of several other office holders. Where are you located? Try visiting ATF's online site, I believe that is where I have seen this information. Fortunately I live in a local where the Sheriff was glad to see me acquire a selectfire....imagine that!

     good luck

Louis <Stoner25MKIV@aol.com>
Floyds Knobs, In, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 03:33:53 (ZULU)

FYI

In response about the availability of the Unertl Scope

Sir,

We have the 10X in stock for immediate delivery for the M40 (7.62), we do not have the 10X ready for the 50 Cal. We have been delivering the 10X Tactical for several months.

Best regards,

Rocky Green

Unertl Optical Company, Inc.

bomac <biker3@earthlink.net>
- Friday, December 20, 2002, at 06:50:07 (ZULU)

To all who posted to my G3 question, I have since had some time to begin to figure out the history and nomenclature of these fire sticks and it is all now clear as mud. But clear enough that I`m sure my Bud will decide to walk away. I thought it sounded wrong that a gennie HK would be $400. Thanks for the help, that`s why I come here...to learn.

"The only thing dumber than yur question is being afraid to ask it"

Speed Racer <mosseater@earthlink.net>
Dillsburg, PA, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 07:20:13 (ZULU)

To all who posted to my G3 question, I have since had some time to begin to figure out the history and nomenclature of these fire sticks and it is all now clear as mud. But clear enough that I`m sure my Bud will decide to walk away. I thought it sounded wrong that a gennie HK would be $400. Thanks for the help, that`s why I come here...to learn.

"The only thing dumber than yur question is being afraid to ask it"

Speed Racer <mosseater@earthlink.net>
Dillsburg, PA, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 07:20:51 (ZULU)


Class 3 applications,

Instructions Sheet for ATF form 7 or OMB# 1512-0042: #4: "Applicant must submit copy #2 of this form to the chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the premises sought to be licensed are located. The CLEO is the Chief of Police, Sheriff or an equivalent officer or the designee of such individual."

This is a licence to sell firearms as a business. I included a NFA tax form OMB 1512-0472 to include NFA weapons sales and tranfers and pay the fees.

It seems to leave a lot open to interpretation, "designee?".

The Asst. Chief Deputy did the fingerprints but wouldn't sign off with out the Sheriffs review. And I know 'em both. The whole process was confusing as hell from the beginning.

Kevin,

You need sensitivity training. :))))

John

John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 11:33:48 (ZULU)

Alan,

Tell us how you really feel, man!  It's okay, don't hold back becaus of us...

I agree with you wholeheartedly and then some.  And it's not just the Generals going politico, a lot of people are only concerned with who's a$$ they have to kiss for their next promotion.  Good thing I'm a non-com, I'd probably not been able to stick around long enough as an officer to retire...

T

Caison <tjsarchett@ezol.com>
Dela-Where?, - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 13:03:59 (ZULU)

Hey HOGs, all this badmouthing of Calif bugs me.  A few things. In CA we have:

1. The dumbest damm liberals in any land.

2. The worst politicians of any land not in the USSR

3. One of if not the best sniper schols in the world Camp Pendeleton USMC

4. The SEAL Teams training at Coronado, Pretty FNG good dont you think?

5. Mentioned in famous  "Country Boy Will Survive" song, not many of you other states can claim that.LOL

Now if we can get rid of numbers 1 and 2 we will be on top.

I drive a SUV, I hate soceer and sport a "Got MIldots" bumper sticker on my truck.

MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 14:09:40 (ZULU)

Louis,

Thanks for the info.  I'll look into it.  Like John in B'Town (Bloomington?) said, it's open to interpretation, which makes the process difficult.

Speed Racer,

No offense intended, sorry if you took any of the G3 talk that way.  If you're serious about HK's, go to HKPRO.com.  It's THE best forum for HK related stuff, including answering questions about prices, clones, Class-3 info, etc..  Class-3 equipment is a serious business, and you might locate a Class-3 dealer in your area for the latest info.

The ATF surfs a lot of sites, including this one, looking for people who are dealing in heavily regulated gear.  It's easy to get into trouble, even if your intentions are innocent.

Happy Holidays, everyone!!

Duman <steve_duey@hp.com>
- Friday, December 20, 2002, at 14:18:34 (ZULU)

Stoner(Louis),

I read your comments on getting the CLEO signatures. I chatted with a guy in Ohio. He had the same trouble. He owns a business, and just listed the corporation as the buyer. No finger print cards, no CLEO, no passport photos. He says it took about a month for approval. You ever hear of this before? Of course my Sheriff was only too happy to sign my applications.

Might try to get out to the range before Christmas if it doesnt rain too much.

Speedracer,

If somebody has a full auto G3 they want to sell for $400 it's either stolen, or somebody's trying to set you up. Either way it's bad ju-ju, and to be avoided at all costs. If you want to see what a legal G3 sells for go to www.subguns.com. They are listed there from $6,000 to about $8,000.

Later,

Bill

William Bledsoe <dc8plumber@aol.com>
outback, ky, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 14:55:02 (ZULU)


Mike Miller:  Soccer is a game for children who are too young for real sports.  It teaches team work and individual iniative and is good exercise.  It bores me cross eyed.  

Gun deals:  If you even get a FAINT WHIFF of something squirrely, don't be manipulated, don't be smooth talked, just WALK AWAY.  You'll never get better advice than that.  

All of you have probably seen this on Drudge.  For any who haven't, it's, "Missing: four tons of nerve gas, 8.5 tons of anthrax, and assorted nuclear bomb parts" in Iraq.  Wonders await.  Oh s**t.:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=363156

And I don't know what to think about the round up of Iranians who are in technical violation of their visa stipulations.  It's either incredibly ham-handed and clumsy, or something's up.  Something needs to be.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Friday, December 20, 2002, at 15:22:06 (ZULU)

I just want to clear up this soccer mom deal.  There is a big difference between the soccer mom's driving the SUV in the US and the Scotty football mama's at the Celtic/Rangers matches.  Beeeg difference..  The soccer fans here in general are insane.  If you go to Glasgow, there will often be a sign outside the pub stating 'NO FOOTBALL COLOURS ALLOWED', because football fans are insane.  There are fans from Glasgow(in Scotland on west coast) that travel to Newcastle(In england, on east coast) to watch soccer games, not necessarily because their team is playing, just because no one from Newcastle knows them like, and because football fans are insane.

I didn't like football/soccer at first, but I do get a kick out of it now, more for watching the insane fans and chanting their chants, watching the hatred between rival fans.  They literally HATE each other.  Good stuff..

later

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 16:20:40 (ZULU)

Val, sent you a mail, no go for the 27/28th, i'm off for xmas.

Paul C. hang in there buddy, the rings are on thier way, the post seems to be taking wayyyyy to long between europe and the US, i've been waiting for nearly 3 months for some stuff from Brownells, (they said it had been stuck at US customs), the damn German post seem to have lost a parcel i sent to Sarge, ( any sign of parcell #2 yet Sarge?) I presume that the rings are caught in the xmas stuff.

I was on a shoot on the training area this week, good to see old faces again, wasn't much game about but it was a good afternoon out for the dogs, had some interesting conversations with some of the guys who are still serving, There where a couple of Tank commanders and a Ssgt combat engineer, the engineer was on the same german hunting licence course as i was back in 93, we had a good chat about the reworked SA80 and sniper rifles, the concensus of opinion is that the SA 80 is still a crock of shit. Also that the caliber of recruit these days is far below what it was 16 years when we joined, back then we joined because we wanted to, it seems that these days many join because it is either that or umemployment benefit. The lack of moral standing in todays society is also apparent in the armed forces,with crime and insubordinence on a rapid increase. I have heared the same from every single British Soldier i have talked to over the last 3 years.

On another note,Financial advantages to deployment:  we Brits ALWAYS loose money when we depoly, the only benefit we had in the field or on deployment was that we didn't have to pay for food or accomodation, ( and maybe didn't have anywhere we could spend money)and the married guys got a separation allowance, but we lost all things like living overseas allowance etc. The separation allowance or the gain in not paying for food/accom' did not make up for the loss, infact it didn't even half way cover the difference. But financial gains or losses never seemed(for most) to be a factor in a decision to volunteer for a deployment, you volunteered because you either seeked adventure or you felt it was your duty to do so. I would suspect that if you are in the Services as an altenative to the dole queue, then you have little incentive to  turn out smart for a parade never mind volunteer for any where dodgey.

Medical treatment, get it whilst you can, I have , in the last 2 weeks been refused treatment because the particular Doc was at the limits of his budget, i was asked to come back in the new year (which is the next financial quarter) and i would be then treated, OK its nothing major, just some physio for a couple of dammaged muscles in my arm and kneck, but i was shocked to be turned away (never mind the damn wasted time in the waiting room) all the same.

Grandma came home absolutely shocked the other day.. she had seen her first ever Black German Policeman, I must admit, I have never seen one yet in the 13 years ive been here, ( seen plenty of cute female ones though), food for thought.

Pete L  

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 16:23:11 (ZULU)

JR, the hatred started long ago ( especialy with Rangers and Celtic) Rangers supporters bieng Protestant and Celtic bieng Catholic, I can't stand footbal/soccer my self, 22 queers chasing a bag of wind.(can't stand Formula 1 either) Rugby was always my game( thats a bit like your guys football, but without all the helmets and padding) dictionary definition:

Rugby: a game played by men with odd shaped balls.

ha.. My Dad has a contract with a ladies rugby team, he does all thier transport, he rekons the best bit is at the end when they swap shirts.Whilst we are on sport, it has been noticed that there was a severe lack of coverage on the Brit TV of any of the shooting events at the Commonwealth games, I wonder why?

Pete  

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 16:31:55 (ZULU)

American professional football played without helments would not be survivable.  Without pads, line play would not be possible.  

Rugby looks about as rough as pick-up football.  Play Sunday and you wake up on Monday and crawl into the bathroom.  Wednesday you are moving around with tolerable aches and pains.  The next Sunday you do it again.

Ah, to be young again.  And real stupid.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Friday, December 20, 2002, at 16:49:31 (ZULU)

**** Back from Afghanistan, Marine shoots would-be carjacker ****

This is a real "welocome home, Vet" news item. Sergeant Lowery comes home from A'stan only to be shot by a carjacker. Having been shot in the face, the Sergeant managed to return fire with a .45, scoring "numerous" hits and killing the 'would-be' carjacker.

http://newsobserver.com/nc24hour/ncnews/story/2032463p-1962107c.html

--

MK4

MK4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 17:06:05 (ZULU)

Ref: 6.5x.284

I just got my shipment from Sinclair.  I've got all this brand new Lapua brass and 139 grain scenars. (It all gives me that funny feeling like I got climbing the rope in gym class.)  Anyway, where can I get a set of case dimensions for trimming and  what not.  I've got an idea of where to start with the powder and load already.

It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas!!!

out

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 17:20:37 (ZULU)

CDC, you sound like you'd played rugby..we used to play on Wednesdays(traditional Brit Army sports afternoon) Play weds afternoon,freeze nuts off runnung round a frozen pitch,crawl to the bath, hobble or get carried to the rugby club bar,sink a few pints of beer, eat a curry and sing some dirty rugby songs, back to barracks to sleep it off, wakeup thursday, acheing from head to foot, oh shit a PT lesson,hobble over the assault course, twice round the barracks, breakfast and to work, Friday afternoon still stiff and acheing, CO's run, whoever couldn't beat the CO around the crosscountry course got to do guard duty at the weekend, (and he was a fit sod) phew, just beat him, off home for the weekend, instead of resting, spend weekend chasing women - fighting - and living it up at the disco, back to camp monday, oh shit a PT lesson, just about manage assault course without hobbleing, but oh my head!! Tuesday. Circuit training, ah feeling better by now. Wednesday, Platoon run, ah shit I'm playing rugby this afternoon as-well, repeat the above. and oh yeah.."Ah, to be young again.  And real stupid"   I quit the rugby after about 5 years,(and the boxing) i figured it was pointless getting beat up onlike that unless you where getting paid lots of money for it.(and it was interfearing with shooting) Pete

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 17:44:19 (ZULU)

"...in the last 2 weeks been refused treatment because the particular Doc was at the limits of his budget, i was asked to come back in the new year (which is the next financial quarter) and i would be then treated".  

Pete L,

What a concept.  Doctor:"Sick, why you can't possibly be sick, we've already reached our quarterly budget".  Hope to hell Americans understand that this is what the dems are talking about when they start touting the virtues of the "single payer plan".   Just MHO.

Don

Don K. <ussr@clarityconnect.com>
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 18:01:45 (ZULU)

Don, that's funny because they keep telling us here that they want to move closer to the American system,?? emergencies are covered no matter the budget, but routine stuff, (like physio, a hip replacement, a bypass whatever) will always be targeted towards the start of a budget quarter, its basicaly first come first served. Its still way better here than in the UK, atleast its only the next quarter i have to wait for, in the UK you go on a list, and the Gov't wait and hope you kick the bucket before you need the treatment, that way they get to keep what you paid in over the years (same goes with the pension, they want to raise the pension age to 70+ in the hope that you will die before they have to pay you back some of what you paid in over the years. Pete

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 18:22:25 (ZULU)

Kevin....didn't you say that George Gardner was chambering that stick????  If so, call him and ask for max case length and neck dimensions for that new Lapua.....

To all.....Merry Christmas

JRMoore

JRMoore <utl@shentel.net>
Northern, Virginy, USofWonderfulA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 18:27:21 (ZULU)

Old news, but al queda training manual can be found on the DOJ website www.usdoj.gov/ag/trainingmanual.htm

Finally got around to reading it thanks to holiday slack.  Thought it was interesting for a variety of reasons.

Finished the M1A stock and really like the finish.  I didn't want to heat the oil / wax mixture in the house so I used a heat gun outside and it worked fine.  Planning on shooting the rifle tommorow.

Tis the season to complete all those projects I've put off.

Steve <stevesix@hotmail.com>
Tampa Bay, FL, - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 18:39:53 (ZULU)

Pete,

Aye, rugby rules.  Only game I understand..  Hit, and be hit.  the scrums are nasty, there's been dudes put in wheelchairs after a scrum gone wrong.  Good stuff.  didn't say I liked soccer, I just enjoy watchin' those insane fans..what's the term they use with the rangers/celtics fans, septarians, no that's not it, but it's an 's'.  and the chants, I've been on many a train ride home where the entire car was rocking with loud, obnoxious, drunk football fans spewing their team songs.  Love it..

Don't like F1 either..tired of 'Schumacher wins, shumacher wins, shumacher wins', it's a shite sport guided by who has the bucks...

It will be a shock to the system watching US sports, I haven't kept up atall..  plus, no Ladbrokes in SoDak, hah...can't bet on the donkeys!!!  now what the hell am I going to do with my Saturday mornings, ha..

Well dudes, I'm outta here for a while, will be stateside Monday for a well deserved long holiday break..  and I get to look forward to some 50 cals to rifle when I return, yeeehaww!!  just wish I could test fire 'em too..

Happy days are here again...

JR

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 18:45:10 (ZULU)

Gents,

Back from duty and have a little time before hitting the sack.

Great threads on politics...especially the take on Kalifornistan...

Problem is, now that the liberals have turned that state into a sewer they are all moving to Oregon. Solution? Declare the OR/CAL border a free fire zone for Oregonians with no license, bag limit, or caliber restrictions!

On the "new" Unertl 10X: Rocky Green and I are old compadres from the Corps. Our paths crossed last during Desert Shield/Desert Storm. He's a man to ride the river with and currently a Bird Colonel in the reserve component. As soon as I can round up the cash I'm going to have one of them thare "new" scopes. Then I can throw away my luppie and have a "real" USMC rifle!

Had a "jumper" today at work. After we 'cuffed him to the expanded metal safety wire...he looked kinda funny hangin' there JC style!

New lad...apparently realized how badly he had screwed his life up and it was Xmas...Poor Baby...:-(

All for now...going to PT and spend some quality time in the woods with big dog...

Kevin, think I may have a dimensional drawing of the 6.5 X .284 Norma...will e-mail it to you.

Semper Fi,

Wes

Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Bldogett, OR, 97326 - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 19:12:08 (ZULU)


Sad news:  The Paramedic that was in our helicopter that crashed last march is not going to make it to Christmas.  He is in a rehab hospital in Reno, spent first 6 months in ICU at the local trauma center, was getting better, moved to rehab, now has a yeast infection in his blood.  Dr's say there is nothing they can do and he has just day's left.  Chuck was a good friend, and mentor, and golf partner.  Going to see him in the morning, for the last time.

On hmo's and insurance:  Some of the other medics on here might know about this, but it is time the genereal public knows:  In the early 90's a member of HCFA (health care financing admin, the board that tells medicare and all other insurance co. what to pay)  Said:  "It has come to our attention that having paramedics in the field is not cost effective.  A patient that would have died before reaching the hospital is now brought into the hospital alive and running up huge bills.  This needs to change..."    Medicare has in the last year started phasing in a new fee schedule (a list of what the appropiate cost is for certian medical procedures) over the next 5 years.  This list cuts the income of most ambulance co's by about 40-50% by 2006.  A lot of these companies will no longer be able to employ paramedics and go back to running Emts (basic life support).

Your goverment at work.

Bob

Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne , CA, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 19:19:23 (ZULU)

"Mystery" influenza on cruise ships, aircraft carriers, airliners, Marine camps, etc.  No break out into the general population.

Hmmm...

I'd like to see all those strains isolated then DNA tested and compared.  You can call me paranoid if you want, but I wouldn't be shocked to find out that we're under a bio attack.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Friday, December 20, 2002, at 19:51:52 (ZULU)

Right fellers, off to the pub for some food and then to the woods to see about shooting my christmas dinner, fancy a change from Turkey this year.. when i fed the feeder today i could see where the pigs had been rooting about over the last 2 days, they had dug the hell out of the forest floor , all around the tree stand.. sure to get one tonight. wish me luck.. Pete

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 20:02:19 (ZULU)

HMO and Insurance...Boy do I know what you're talking about!!! My other big complaint is Medicaid or as we refer to it...The Gold Card! This allows anyone that has it to show up in the ER with any little problem they think needs a doctor! Runny noses for a week, I just don't feel good, fussy baby - that's a favorite, my legs have hurt for the last 6 months, on and on and on! And of course most of these people show up between 10PM and 2AM! We even have them ask us for prescriptions for TYLENOL because they don't have the $$$ to pay for it...but go outside every 10 minutes for a cigarette!! People just aren't taught in school, like my generation was, how to take care of themselves. Class example is the 2 y.o. that was brought to the ER, at 2:30 in the morning, with a temp of 103.8 - that's dangerous folks - asked when the last time the child was given Tylenol or Motrin to control the fever the parents stated 'Oh we didn't give anything we wanted the doctor to see how high the fever was' Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh....

As you can see don't get me started on HMO's, PPO's, PCP's, Medicaid etc. I can give you example upon example of ingorance and abuse within the systems!!

Rant off

Not meaning to start HMO - Insurnace Country

Sarge

Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 20:06:42 (ZULU)

CDC:

I saw the other day that the sickness was comming from the ships dumping their Sh*t tanks into the shipping lanes. And then the ship traveling behind then takes on water for desalinization (sp?)it is not purified and is used for cooking, showering, etc.

Don't know how true this is but possible.

JLU

Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 20:12:33 (ZULU)

CDC wrote;

"I wouldn't be shocked to find out that we're under a bio attack."

yep....that's my take on it and I'll throw in West Nile too.

out

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 20:29:39 (ZULU)


Sarge, How about this one "I didn't have the $ for a cab, so I called the ambulance, by the way can they hang out and give me a ride home?"

Keep in mind, our ambulance is not supported by tax $ at all.

We also call it the "Gold Card" here. (medi-cal/medicaide) and they have no out of pocket cost.

Meanwhile my wife and I have 2 insurance policy's and still have over $2500 out of pocket for the birth of my son 7 months ago.  My wife is a RN in the local ER, the company that ownes the hospital (a non profit company)  is self insured and rased the rates on the health benefits, our cost is going up to about $800/month. At least at my company the insurance is still $160/month.  

Am I the only one who sees a problem with this?

Cruise flu:  I have long thought it is some sort of bio attack, what better place than on a ship where the people have no other choice than to eat the food and drink/use the water?  

Took an updated class in Chico on mass casuality incidents and NBC, with a focus on small pox.  Very interesting.

Bob  

Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne, Ca, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 20:57:29 (ZULU)

Pete L wrote:

>>But financial gains or losses never seemed(for most) to be a factor in a decision to volunteer for a deployment, you volunteered because you either seeked adventure or you felt it was your duty to do so. I would

suspect that if you are in the Services as an altenative to the dole queue, then you have little incentive to  turn out smart for a parade never mind volunteer for any where dodgey<<

Pete, I was already volunteered for the overseas gig for many other (right) reasons.  Monday, I was told about the "new rules" regarding tax breaks and all that.  I was surprised, and slightly mystified...all that adventure AND a paycheck?  I usually think I ought to pay for the job I get to do...But I am not going to say no to the extra dough...my wife won't let me...These breaks and such are just political guilt for sending us into harms way.  Who am I to complain?  God knows that I did twenty plus years without making a ton of money...

The "mercenary" thing was a joke...you were supposed to laugh.

On the subject-

Remember that I am not talking about "combat arms" soldiers for these assignments that are going unfilled.  Our infantry kids are climbing walls to get theirs.  I'm due my functional area (aviation maintenance) and joint tour and Kuwait is the location.  We're talking REMFs for these jobs.  So the lack of volunteers is coming from the same group who get the bulk of the "skill training" and other bennies, like echelons above reality duty.  I wonder if the nay-sayers can look themselves in the mirror when they ignore the call to action.  For the record, I got suckered in to logistics by the term "maintenance test pilot."  It sounded pretty exciting and I raised my hand.  Oops.  MTPs are just flying wrenches...though a very very few get to go to Patuxent for the real deal...Now, I'm labelled as a part time bean counter.  How the Fu%@ did that happen????  Heheh.  With my luck, I'll be good at it :((

Bio attack:  By the time we realize it happened, it will have done some shit.  Strep A at Diego, cruise ships, and the mystery rashes at all them schools.  Hmmm.  Paranoid?  No, but only fools believe in coincidences.  

Joe M

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Friday, December 20, 2002, at 21:26:29 (ZULU)

Aggressive medics can make an intended "taxi ride" into quite a different adventure for someone complaining of an illness.  Fake it, tie up a bus for BS and you deserve the consequences.

medicjim86 <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Friday, December 20, 2002, at 21:35:43 (ZULU)


SUV Country ?

I got a green Jeep Liberty. Call it my SMJ (Soccer Mom Jeep).

Mildot and NRA Lifer stickers on the back glass. Texas plates that read 1 SHOT.

Nobody even notices that shit around my hood. Staus quo here in Port Arthur, Texas; where Redneck and Cajun cultures collide head on and where the sewer meets the sea ...

brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Friday, December 20, 2002, at 22:06:10 (ZULU)

On the cruise ships: another plus for an intentional infection- the occupants are often multinational. With a 1-2 week incubation, they would be home by onset.

My grandfather and I took a ride in a Caddy yesterday- a hard ride to take but he will rest easy now. Millard Filmore Greer 1910-2002, God Keep you Grandpa...

Hogs, hold them loved ones tight and all have a Merry Xmas.

    Later.  

Bill Moore <lmalterna@aol.com>
Goodview, Va, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 22:07:27 (ZULU)

I was speaking with Brad from Lightfighter.com about custom ordering an Eagle "sniper rifle cover and pad" and "padded scope cover" in desert camo or coyote brown to go with the Sniper Country rifle and he said if 20 people were interested he could have Eagle make a special run in the color we want, they usually only offer OD, Woodland and black. If you are interested contact Brad and lets get an order together. Thanks, Mike

Mike <offroad_z71@hotmail.com>
- Friday, December 20, 2002, at 22:50:09 (ZULU)

Sold the M1A.  Who's got the best price on Rem SA M24 stocks?

RE SUV's, Soccer Mom's, and all the rest

"Earth First!  We'll stripmine the rest of the galaxy later."

Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, US of A - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 22:51:26 (ZULU)

Joe,

Doing the AMO thing, huh? Good luck to ya. Just sit at your desk and sharpen your knife, maybe no-one will bother you.

Don, you're only a couple of hours north of me, after the gratuitous leave period I'm going on, we'll have to link up and do some shooting.

Take care

Kush out

Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
Pensacola, Florida, - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 23:14:37 (ZULU)

Gents,

Here's a link to a guy's website who helps military personnel pay for their flight home during the holidays.  Lots of people donate unused frequent flier miles so the troops can fly for free to visit their families.

http://www.ehowa.com/military.html

or click on my name below.  Don't think it is available to officers, only us enlisted guys -- but pass it on to your men, might help someone out.  A friend in my platoon told me about it, already got $250 ticket through it.  FWIW...

Semper Fi

Brian <bolt_308@yahoo.com>
Camp Pendleton, CA, USA - Friday, December 20, 2002, at 23:46:44 (ZULU)

My NEW theme song for the holidays! Enjoy!

http://www.toonedin.com/movies/WhiteTrashXmas.html

I love my life, Bolster heading for the barn and out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 00:06:26 (ZULU)

BOLT.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ROTFLMAO !!!!

Sarge

Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 00:29:57 (ZULU)

Kush,

It would be my pleasure to shoot with you anytime.  But it's a little more than a couple of hours from Pcola to Huntsville, 'less you're in a phrogg.  Maybe you could make it on a weekend and we could go another hour up the road to AEDC and shoot with Fatboy at one of his 1K matches.  Been trying to make it all fall & winter and been something every weekend.  That's gotta stop.  Only prob is I'd seriously hate to get waxed by his better half.

Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
- Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 02:34:38 (ZULU)

Has anybody shot the Remington 62 grain match .223 loads?  Any comments, I just got some at a discounted price.

Jerry

Jerry <gmueller@cablespeed.com>
Baltimore, MD, USA - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 03:03:23 (ZULU)

Brian, they build Jeep Liberties in Toledo. I have a 1990 GMC suburban I have been driving and building for a few years, and an Expedition. They both were NRA and H-D paraphinalia.

Mike I would be interesed in a case, how about a hard case too, anyone, anyone?

Merry CHRISTmas

fred

Fred Hartman <beartooth46@hotmail.com>
Toledo, Ohio, USA - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 03:38:55 (ZULU)

Jerry-  That 62gr match your talking about...is it the IMI from Botach?  If it is, I just tried some in my AR service rifle (1/8 twist Wilson BBL)  I was pleased.  It shot with the 68gr match I normally use...for much less $$$.  My PSS and Savage 110FP didn't like it that much, not bad ...just not good groups.  I will be getting more for the AR considering how much it is and how well the rifle liked it.  

Cortisone-  Anybody else ever had a Gout attack?  I have and the two shots of Cortisone derivatives I got (each "cheak" thank you very much)hurt with a vengence but they were a God send. It's all relative.

Otherwise I'm just working my ass off and not getting enough sleep, like everybody else here.  I had a 30hr shift two days ago and I'm still feeling it.  What looked like a basic burglary arrest turned into ..dope, counterfeiting, guns, kidnapping, prostitution and of course murder. The worst thing in the whole deal was we had to get the Feds in on it and that really turned it into a cluster.  Damn the criminals and paperwork =)

Take care,

Joe S.    

Joe S. <spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, Cali, US of A - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 04:02:40 (ZULU)

Well, this Holiday season is going to be a "memorable & unique" one for me. Just found out yesterday, that next week, as of Tuesday, I will be offically laid off. Yep, Christmas Eve. The good news is that I saw this coming & have already been looking, especially in states with a high "firearms friendly" quotient (no CCW or tactical matches in Ohio).

Truely, may all you & your families have a Merry Christmas & Happy New Years!!

danny mull <drm8194@hotmail.com>
akron, ohio, - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 04:51:00 (ZULU)

Remington 62 grain "Match"- I only had one box, best I can recall it shot around 1 MOA but I don't remember how hard I was trying.  That brass with Rem match primers, 25.5 gr 748 & the 69 gr SMK does under 1/2 MOA.  The LOAL looks way short to me for best accuracy.

WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 05:20:31 (ZULU)

Steve,

      I'm glad that your stock finish came out well. Normally, I wait until the ol' lady goes off to work, then melt the mix on the kitchen stove. The odor only hangs around for a few hours, and smells pretty good to me, anyway! Hint - for cooking it out of doors get a can of Sterno, although I've used the heat gun also. It's a Black&Decker, and it will blister the paint right off your car if you're not careful!

Bio attack,

          Just a thought - what if the gov't is already aware of it and is keeping a very tight lid on it until they can isolate specific cases or locations and avoid a general panic among the populace? I know, I know - I've seen that movie somewhere too.

ALAN

ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 05:36:20 (ZULU)

Joe S:  Yeah, to err is human but to really hose the goat, you need the involvement of a federal agency.

Alan:  This stuff is happening on aircraft carriers, airliners, cruise ships, a Marine camp, and who knows where else.  I'm not looking at the data, but I'm not stupid either.  Something smells funny.  Now let's say that you are Tom Ridge and the CDC (no relation) hands you proof.  First you contact Dubya's Chief of Staff.  

Next put yourself in Dubya's place.  Do you announce it?  

Sure.  In due time.  Let the high stakes poker players from Tejas mull it over some.  

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 05:58:15 (ZULU)

Danny Mull:

That really sucks.  What kind of job are you looking for?  maybe some one of us can help.

Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
- Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 06:02:17 (ZULU)

Duman

    No offense taken. I`m pretty hard to offend with just words and don`t generally take stuff that way in print unless it`s brutally obvious. I didn`t realize the G3 was the forerunner to the other variants (like M-14 to M1A, M-16 to AR-15, etc.) and my friend was counting on my advice much like I count on the advice of those in the know on this and other forums. Just trying to shorten the learning curve. I have no allusions of owning full auto. Don`t need Gov. hoop headaches and press blisters. Although, I`ll bet it`s fun...Hmmmmm...

Nope, decided I like tiny groups a little better. At least for now.

BTW, I did only click once to post, honest.

Speed Racer <mosseater@earthlink.net>
Dillsburg, PA, USA - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 06:09:40 (ZULU)

Hey Gents,  I just got back from skiing in Idaho. Sun Valley was great, and it was my first try at skiing ever. Whish the slope wasn't so dang steep. My hip hurts a little but wow it was fun. I will get caught up on the roster in the next day or two.

Mayhem send me a phone number if you gunna be a round for a few more days..

Dirty Steve, Out

Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 06:34:44 (ZULU)

Tiny groups are fun,yeah, but a 200 round belt all to yourself through a m60 is good shit of the first order.

Kalifornicstan may be a lot of things,MikeM, but us Aussies got the worst politicians south of the ussr,Im not proud of it but shit happens and once it happens it multiplies on its own.

Went to the range today, 5oom, 40+ deg C target looked like it was at the bottom of a swimming pool,canvass mat burning my legs,I never had one of my own rifles that hot,only autos blister skin on contact with the barrel,but the poor old swede was smokin.Enjoy yer snow ya bumz.

out

G.W

Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 06:57:09 (ZULU)

"We should be proud that our police are not armed."

http://argument.independent.co.uk/leading_articles/story.jsp?story=363103

Only in England!!! No wonder we checked out! :)))

John

John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 11:34:08 (ZULU)

Danny,

Getting laid off sucks, but you usually come out a lot better with the change. Was laid off from three different jobs in '80, '89 and '90. My truck used to be able to drive me to the unemployment office without any help.

Suggestions FWIW:

Don't take the first job you find unless it is exactly what you want or you can't financially afford not to.

Give yourself a couple week break.

Sign up for unemployment. You've been paying for it, so you might as well take advantage of it.

There is no such thing as "job security". When you work a week and they pay you for a week, consider it even.

Get at least 3 headhunters working for you. Jobs in the newspaper are usually already promised and they list them per human resources policies.

Of course you probably already know what I just said so I'll shut up, Bolt out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 12:53:01 (ZULU)

Hey Pete, hows it going?  What was the crack with Brownell's after, any news/excuses from them?

BBC have started repeating the series, 'World at War'.  First 2 parts were on this morning.  Fantastic documentary despite it's age.  Politicians should be forced to watch it at regular, frequent intervals.  Many parallels with some current political talking heads that refuse to believe war is sometimes necesary or that it can be limited.

Jon  

Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 13:22:16 (ZULU)

Pete, what's for x-mas on the stove ?

Val Sessink <v.sessink1@chello.nl>
- Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 16:29:43 (ZULU)


Sadaam's strategy is simple:  Just kill a bunch of our troops.  Beruit and Somalia have planted the notion that we can't sustain causalties.  The mythology in the Middle East is that, if they give us a bloody nose, we'll flee like chickens.

If that works, Islamic extremists and despots will gain fantastic prestige and we'll be looking at a much larger war against many more enemies armed with WMDs.  They'll keep coming and they won't be satisfied until we are brought low.

The easy way out of this is to do whatever is necessary to put Sadaam's head on a pike.  There's no other way.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 16:29:47 (ZULU)

Kush,

I need to pic your brain about The Allison C and F series turbines. Drop me an email, please.

John

John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 17:04:56 (ZULU)


I don't want to get the pistol wars started again but this is interesting.  The Baretta ain't cutting it in combat, and some of our guys are going the back to the tried and true.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=9316&archive=true

This deal about The Honorable Senator Patty (mom in tennis shoes) Murray praising Osama bin Laden's social policy presents a nice contrast to Senator Lott's bone-head remarks.  If you are going to say something stupid, make sure you're a Democrat.  Then you can say something absolutely outrageously stupid.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134599925_webmurray20.html

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 18:52:26 (ZULU)

Well, the grunts are all hot and bothered to go.  It's always that way.  Life for a grunt always sucks, but it sucks less when you get to kill people and you don't have to deal with the 1st Sgt& Sgt Maj doing daily barracks inspections and other petty shit.  

Pogues are pogues.  They have been tought from birth to be docile little pussies, by soccer Moms and other kinder, gentler idiots.  Which, combined with no physical play, overdoses of sugar and youthful energy, usually turns them into little undisciplined monsters.  Instead of guys like Peter L and his rugby hooligans(dude, you are sick;)  you have little Billy who sits and plays PSII for six hours a day, then goes out and vandalises the local school.  That's great for breaking down any and all moral inhibitions about killing, but it does nothing to develop team work, physical strength and endurance and personal discipline.  All of which are needed to field a useful military unit.  Don't get me wrong, we have some good guys, and we're going to do some good work in the near future, but we need to take steps to ensure that we have a good base of hard, cold, organized, steely eyed killers for the long term.  You sell these kids on a good soft job and good pay and all that corporate crap, and then wonder why they puss out when it comes crunch time?  Shit.  Tell them life is gonna suck, that people are all gonna try and kill you, and that that'll you'll get the chance to kill them, and see what you get.  You'll get all these little hard asses who are looking for the tough things to prove themselves.  Ain't no other choices in the US to do the hardcore shit.  SOCOM hasn't had any shortage of people looking to join, neither has the USMC, even though we ain't got the big bucks.

If this bio problem is tango related, GW isn't going to tell anyone until he knows who did it.  Then, while feelings of outrage are high, we'll have the drive to do the job right.  And the mid-day Sun will rise over the cities of those responsible, while the sheep of America have their 10 minute attention spans focused on the job at hand.  He has learned from the immediate post Sep 11 aftermath.  Strike when the iron is hot and use your largest hammer.  S/F...Ken M      

Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
occupied people's republic of IL, - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 18:57:35 (ZULU)

International Sniper Competition

US Army Wins

SSG Justin Shaffer and Sgt Mike ?  From FT Richardson Take TOP Team, TOP Sniper and TOP Spotter.   Shotting a G.A. Precision AR-10 and an Issue M-24.

George Out

George Gardner, G.A. Precision <a10xrifle@aol.com>
NKC, MO, USA - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 19:28:08 (ZULU)


Hogs,

Just a number of things quickly.

I have posted two new reviews (one technical review and one book review), and hope to get another technical one done before I go to bed - depends on how well Sarge wrote :-)  Then tomorrow after church we're leaving for a well-deserved rest, and will be back next week Sunday.  So, please don't break anything.  If the Roster needs archiving - email Sarge.

I probably will not have time to come on here again as it is almost 22H00 already, so here is wishing you all a merry CHRISTmas and a happy new year, and, for every one of you, may the new year be better than the best of the past.

Take care all, and if you travel, please travel safely.

Marius

Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
- Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 19:40:46 (ZULU)

Way to go George!!!!!

We're off for a week at the coast with the in laws for CHRISTmas.Happy silly season to y'all,if you cant be good,be careful.

G.W

out

Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 20:08:49 (ZULU)

Why do I continue to pay $3 to park and $6 to go to these rotten ass, over priced, same ole stuff, rusting in the boxes, moth eaten surplus gun shows around here? I know better but something keeps telling my pea brain that ONE OF THESE DAYS BEFORE I DIE, I will find something worth buying. I would really like to go to a quality gun show, in another state, that these yahoos don't set up tables at. I can almost sit here an rattle off everything that was there cause it was the same shit that was there last year and the year before that, ad infinitum!!!!!!!!

On another subject.....

This morning I bought an itty bitty bottle of Montana Supreme. Not five minutes later I ran into one of the best bench resters in the country (who happens to live near me) and we were discussing cleaning. He told me not to use the stuff on stainless or chrome moly. Somebody is telling a falsehood about this stuff. I know Lito, Hoppes only but hell, a girl has to try different stuff. Is there any freaking copper remover on the market that won't mess up a barrel? Amonia and phosphoric acid seem to the be culprits but with factory barrels, Hoppes wears my arms out trying to get the copper out.

New short magnums......

I had an orgasm when I saw the adds for the 223 and 243 short magnums. I WANT an AR built for bofem. The special forces dudes probably already have them in the pipeline. Man o man, talk about service and match rifle 600 yard scores going up. I understand that there is a guy down around FayetteNam that is currently working on the mods to make em woik.

Back to the grease, Bolt out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 21:44:51 (ZULU)

Boltster,

We had a show here this weekend too.  Same old shit,, but I found a nice older Winch LA chambered in 243win to use as the next 6.5x284 donor.  Blueing on the action was almost perfect and the receiver was factory tapped for a side base.  Only thing I don't like is the ugly shroud,, but it'll do for what I need it for.  I get to try my hand at bedding with this puppy.  Should be fun ;))

BUT,, I whole heartidly agree and think the Klinton era ruined the good shows.

If I don't get back on before Christmans,, hope you all have a safe and happy Holiday,, which ever one you celebrate.

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
I've laughed, I've Cried, I've learned how to Cook Cat , I've also learned that you'll be able to shoot 20 shats,,, er,, shots,, at 500, 600 and 1000 yards at the AEDC on Dec 15th,, drop me a mail for more info. , - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 22:54:59 (ZULU)

Well, what a god awfull night it was in the woods, chucked it down all night, i didn't see didley squat. bugger, looks like it'll be turkey again this year.

Joe M, wasn't a dig buddy, i never doubted your reasons to volunteer, I was realy just carrying on the conversation i had with the combat engineer at the hunt the other day. Like Ken M says, we need to ensure that we have a good base from where to draw our warriors(i figure thats what he meant). But in this day and age of pacifism and laziness, i fear that the hard core pool of tough and honourable youngsters that we will need to fill the ranks of our military in the future is a dwindling comodity but in this day and age , is it any wonder. With ref to the Govt's guilty concience for sending people into harms way, the UK gov't think nothing of that, all this extra UN pay that they cash in on is never passed on to the Soldier on the ground, remember the handout the Saudi's came up with at the end of Gulf 1 that was a thankyou? the Govt pocketed that too, "Our troops are not Mercenaries, they get a wage for what they do, but thanks we can put the cash into the Deep Pockets Politicians Fund and the PM can have a new Bentley".

Now having served my time, and volunteered for every shit detail that would get me out of the way of the Sgt Majors monday morning inspection and camp guard duty, having got rid of all that testostorone and adrenalin, i can seriously say that, ( in the UK) any one who volunteers to go into harms way, do the governments dirty work, and lose money whilst doing it, must be completely nuts. In the days that i served my country I was partiotic and proud to be British and very proud to go anywhere i was sent and do anything i was required to do, now a few years later, having seen one politician after another try to take away the freedoms I enjoy, destroy all i served for and ruin the very soul of the Country i believed in. I can only say that I am embarased to be British, Embarased to be European, no way would i stick my kneck out for the Gov't of Tony Blair, even if i happened to believe that what was about to be done needed doing( Getting the Iraq issue sorted) For me to be in the frame of mind to be able to say i was proud enough to want to serve again, a hell of a lot would need to change at home. I am glad that there are still young men and women who are still partiotic enough.I salute any one who volunteers to go and serve, be they Combat arms or Echelon, I hope that after the fact they all recieve the support they deserve and have a better experience with Veterans Administration than I can say i have had, Grab all the financial incentive you can before some politician spends it on using the Airforce to transport him to see his mistress, or on transporting the City Governers on an all expenses paid trip to China to visit 20 quarries to select stone to pave the city centre, as if there where no quarries local. ( just a couple of local scandals here at the mo'). aw hell i'm getting into my political rant mode again.better shut up.

On another point, the young lady i am working with right now was followed home( dark streets no one around) on her bicycle after we left work last night, by some dirty pervert, he stopped her and suggested all sorts of sexualy deviated things to her, she pushed past and cycled away, making an attempt to lose him, (he was also on a bike) just as she thought she had lost him, he reapeared from a parallel side street and made further suggestions, he didn't actualy harm or touch her, but it shook her up some. "I just no longer feel free and indipendant and it makes me so angry" is what she said, I will give her a couple of pepper spray cans, (i'd rather lend her my pistol), Her husband will now acompany her to and from work for a while.

John, I read that thing on the Brit cops bieng armed, the reason that Bobby's can walk the streets un armed is because they know damn well where not to venture unarmed and avoid these places like the plague, mean while criminals have a free run in the same areas. When comparing the crime figures here in Europe to the USA, the tendency is to just compare the number of incidents, and not number of incidents per head of population, when we compare it per head of population then it paints a very very different story, But the politicians and Association or Chief Police oifficers are more worried about Cops  shooting each other or inocent bystanders and the cost of the firearms training than they are about the rocketing crime figures. The Brit Cops are powerless to defend the general public against criminals, it is illegal to defend your self against criminals, all you can do is hope that your turn never comes.

Pete  

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 23:27:40 (ZULU)

 At the risk of sounding like one who watches too many movies, I couldn't help but notice the relevance of Tolkiens "The Two Towers" to today's political debate between those who would seek to accomodate Evil and those who would meet it head on.....There are lessons to be drawn from this movie, fantasy that it is, notwithstanding.

Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
LakeCormorant, MS, - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 00:11:53 (ZULU)

Pete, have you sent me an email?  Only I've got a message stuck.  If you have, try sending it again.

Cheers

Jon

Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 00:15:52 (ZULU)

I've managed to recover the message.  Another piece of junk about money making or some such shit.  Its nice being able to email folk from the DR privately, but it is a pain in the arse having people mining the site for addresses to pedal their scams, sell rubbish or just send viruses. If YOU are reading this LEAVE US ALONE, WE DON'T WANT YOUR DVD COPIERS, MONEY MAKING SCHEMES OR YOUR FILTHY VIRUSES.  

Ah, just watch the crap roll in now!

Jon

Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 00:23:59 (ZULU)

Jon, yep i sent you a mail, no airgun yet eh? post is reeeeeeal slow.. what you doing up at this time of day.. oh I know, counting them sheep kept you awake eh.. ha ha ha.. sorry mate, had to get that anti Welsh racist joke in.. how was the Com'party? brownells stuff still not here.... arrggg.. annoying. Pete

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 00:36:18 (ZULU)


CDC, the link said that our troops feel that the 9MM FMJ is ineffective. My first reaction is "WELL DUH!". Unfortunately, the realistic effectiveness difference between traditionally shaped FMJ rounds of any normal full powered pistol caliber is very low. Still, it's my opinion, if they THINK round XYZ is better, give it to them, they should have it. Unless that choice is particularly silly, like a sub-caliber miniature rifle round, that upon initial deployment gets thousands of our men KIA. My first approximation answer goes something like this: 200 to 230 grain FMJ, in the 900 to 1000 fps range, but in the truncated cone configuration. Should make for a harder chambering, but better on the terminal effects page. On the other half, although the article said there were no operational failures, the reported breakages aren't at all acceptable. I'm picturing something not as large as the SOCCOM pistol, for issue across the board, lightweight, rugged, and with a straighter magazine-to-chamber aspect than normal. Possibly something best described as Austrian in appearance on 5 sides, with the hole in the muzzle making the appearance of the sixth side very American. I sure hope this doesn't open up the same can of worms, initially, I just wanted to make a bullet selection suggestion.

BOLT - INCOMING e-mail, no VD, I got a prophylactic on the screen (new)

Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 01:27:55 (ZULU)

Bolt, just saw your msg to Danny Mull, I tried to find his originating msg in this forum, no joy.  You gave good advice Sir.  I'm locked in the throes of unemployment in the Aviation industry FWIW, have been laid-off by #3 acft mfgr in Oct 2001, then a mom & pop acft repair station in July 2002, and am living the dream.  I've a 9yr aviation background in Material Support (yeah, a pogue I guess), then decided to get an Airframe & Powerplant License in Jan 2001...I went to school for 20 months at community college here, obtained a 4.0gpa thru the entire program with 3 straight semesters of perfect attendance (while working full-time thru 17 of 20 of the months there), finished up in Aug 2002, and...have been unemployed since Aug 2002.  

Biggest lesson learned so far:  Be open to finding a new position with skills RELATED to your previous job positions.  Aviation is not worth a flying Fxxk right now for a "green" A&P.  That's why I took a Civil Service exam this last Thursday for a Water Treatment Plant Operator Trainee for a local city. 104 applicants for 1 position!!!  Talk about looking outta a barrel!!  I'll see how it goes.  

Looks like, should this fail, that the Rodgers's are moving to Western NC.  Would certainly be much more of a proper atmosphere than is So. Fla.!!!

Danny, I didn't find your post regarding your specific situation.  But, I will say, DON'T LET THE BASTIDS KEEP YOU DOWN!!!  Keep an open mind, and re-read the Boltster's post.  Feel free to e-mail me should you like.

Best of luck, Frank

FNR <ROCKSHUND@aol.com>
PemPines, FL, USofA for now - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 01:37:11 (ZULU)

Gent's , I would like to wish you all a Great Christmas !!, I'm off now for a few days, got a couple of hunts lined up over the festive season and suppose i'll be stuffed full of turkey and German beer, it could be worse. looking forward to the Gun Shop Christmas booze up, thats always a good start off to Christmas and spending a few days at home with the family. Take care all of you.. Best Regards.. Pete

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 01:46:34 (ZULU)

Well,

See a few new names....mostly the OLD timers......;)

Just dropped by to wish you all a Merry Christmas....

And, for those of you that may be going to see Sadman.....keep it in one piece, and come back safe, and victorious.

With HIS arse on a platter.

Best wishes to you all..........

Two Shoes

Dos Zapatos

Two Shoes <tls8323@cs.com>
- Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 04:59:45 (ZULU)

Bolt,

     After I read your WSSM post a question immediately came to mind. Why would one want a semi-auto barrel burner? Don't get me wrong, I have an M4, five AR-15's, an NM M1A, and an M25 clone, so I've got nothing at all against semi's. The .223 burns more powder than the Swift -  had three Swifts, still have one - and the .243 has more capacity than the .243Win. which we all know to be a barrel burner. In fact, I'd like to check out the .243WSSM, with the 107SMK it ought to be hell on wheels, but in a BOLT GUN!

    The way I see it, the AR-10 is a fine piece of hardware, but it's still a semi and to me that means rapid fire. Maybe not all of the time, but a quick-firing rifle it is, and that equates to a barrel life possibly under 1,000rds. So unless you're getting freebees from JR or Mike Rock, what would be your purpose in getting an AR-10/WSSM combination. I certainly don't mean this as a dig, just like to know if I'm missing something!

Oh, and here's a quiz for the night, and anybody can play -

   Q)What's the difference between vanilla and French vanilla?

ALAN

   

ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 05:23:33 (ZULU)

"Q)What's the difference between vanilla and French vanilla?"

"French" vanilla kisses better. ;o  Seriously, when it comes to ice cream, French vanilla is vanilla with added egg yolks.

Went bow hunting today, (Sat.) while setting in my blind waiting for Mr. Big whitetail, I heard footsteps in the snow, I got ready just in case, but what showed up at 25 yards was the biggest damn bison bull that I've ever seen. For the next 20 minutes a steady stream went by in single file, I stopped counting at 100 and just enjoyed the sight. This is a privately owned semi-wild herd, which means that they are left to fend for themselves in an area that is five miles square.

Work for a couple of days, then I am off for 6 days over Christmas so I wanted to wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. And a special one to John, (acehigh@insightbb.com) who was kind enough to sell me one of his riffle raffle tickets when I missed the last raffle. Thanks again John!

Take care and have a good holiday!

Rob Opp

Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 07:40:35 (ZULU)

Alan,

I started to buy a 28' Grady White boat with twin 200 Mercs several years ago (before I got laid off from a damn good paying job at RJ Reynolds). My fishing buddy thought I was crazy cause the motors burned so much gas. I told him that if I can afford to buy the boat, I can afford the gas. Same as with a custom gun. If I could ever afford to buy a custom gun, I'll be able to afford a couple barrel changes. Hell, no more time than I get to shoot now, the barrel would probably last 10 years.

On the subject of military surplus...

Can anyone confirm that our brilliant government is planning on destroying all surplus stuff, rather that putting it up for auction? Sounds like sumpin they would do, but the rumor is going around and I need confirmation. This rumor may be causing the rise in surplus pricing. Why the hell anyone would want to pay in excess of $150 for a set of Marpat camo's is beyond me. German flectarns are way cheaper and dang similar.

On the 2004 assault rifle bill sunsetting.....

Any guesses on whether Dubya will let it sunset or bring it back up for vote. Right now, mag prices are still rising and could still be a good investment if the bill is extended.

6.5x284.....

Is there such thing as a used 6.5x284 for sale??????

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 14:33:12 (ZULU)


Dos Zap,

Good to see you checking in mang,, you should visit more often.

Speaking of visiting,,, 'Lito, 'Yote Bait, Master Rick, Bravo (sometime soon mang), you can't stay in the hide forever...

Boltster,

If you try and buy a used fagmag make damn sure you have a barrel life log, or deduct for the barrel and fitting accordingly.  I would never expect to get back what I had into one of these match rifles, so you should be able to get into one at a decent price.  But,, if you just want a 6.5x284,, any one of your 308 bolt faced actions will work mang.  Just having it rebarreled and single feed ;)) That way you can go back and forth as you like.

GUNSMITH QUESTION:::

Alright,, got the Winchester action now,, so the pre-threaded AI barrels are beginning to look attractive,, again.  Now,, these are fluted so I'm a bit comcerned about getting the chamber too close to the flutes.  As stated before,, the trunion on the Winchester is about 1", and I'll have to lop 1" off the pre-threaded area because the barrel doesn't thread as far into the Winchester action.  Now,, the flutes, right now, start at 3.250" from the breech.  If I cut off 1", that would leave me 2.250" from the breech if everything headspaces out right and extra doesn't have to be cut.  The 6.5x284 case gets trimmed to 2.165", which would put the throat at about 2.4" or something like that.  So,, is it going to be dangerous to have the lead end of the chamber at or under the flutes?  I wouldn't be so adament about these tubes, but a fluted 30" Border tube for $300 is hard to pass up.  

SO,, will these tubes workie safely or do I need to let this go and order one I KNOW will work form the get go??

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Well Sheeeit, 2002 season is over,,, Good new is, 2003 dates will be in next week. Look for a submission to the "Places to Shoot" on this most excellent of web sites., - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 14:33:36 (ZULU)

Chris,

Have you measured the OD of the barrel, the depth of the flutes and used the chamber dimensions to calculate how much barrel meat there would be (chamber to bottom of flute).  If you're lucky you might find that you have about as much as a standard sporter barrel.

Just a thought!

Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 15:44:23 (ZULU)

Byron,

As written in the post:

"Diameter at breach is 1.125". Diameter at muzzle is .750", ready for a front sight base.  6 flutes, 25" long x .250" wide, taper "shovel" ends.  Currently threaded for AI receivers. 30" OAL. (finished)"

I don't have the depth of the flutes,, but I'm attaching a link to pics (click on my name).  Maybe I sould drop a note to Lee at Border and see what he has to say about the flute depth huh?

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Well Sheeeit, 2002 season is over,,, Good new is, 2003 dates will be in next week. Look for a submission to the "Places to Shoot" on this most excellent of web sites., - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 16:10:10 (ZULU)

Chris,

Call George Gardner at GA Precision, He has a number of these barrels and can answer your question with facts. I seem to recall that another person had the same question a couple of months ago. Give him a call, he will know.

Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 16:27:06 (ZULU)

Bolt,

Did you send me an email with attatchment?

Later,

Rich

Rich S. <RS1441@aol.com>
Bal'mer, - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 17:28:04 (ZULU)

Also,

Mr. Sinister.  I got some good leads on CG63's (Swede target rifles) in much betterer shape than Sarco's (from what I heard).  I don't know if you got my emails or not.  If not, drop me a line and I'll git' 'im to ya. I realize you might be kinda "busy" right now though.

Later,

Rich

Rich S. <RS1441@aol.com>
Bal'mer, - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 17:33:05 (ZULU)

Robert Opp,

           Egg yolks, huh? That's what the French say, don't they?

  The real difference between vanilla and French vanilla is.........

                         Cowardice!

ALAN

ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 18:04:15 (ZULU)

Rich, negative on the email.

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 18:26:45 (ZULU)

Bolt..re. gun shows

  You should try the OGCA shows in Ohio held every two months..Some of the same old crap, but generally some pretty good stuff as well..Prices seem high on lots of stuff but I have made some incredible buys either right at opening on Sat. or right towards the end of the how on Sunday.."You don't really want to have to take that home do you?"..

 Last year during the SHOT show the Beinfeld gun show was going on at the Riviera in Vegas..Now that's a gun show, with modern and antique sections..Not cheap, but very impressive!  I had to leave the modern{sporting} arms show before I did something really stupid!!Got out of there with two Kimber mags for my 82 and counted myself lucky to have found them and the price wasn't that bad.. Man, you could spend some $s in that place though!!!!!!!!!

outa here

Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Thinkin' of Spring in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 19:02:07 (ZULU)

Bolt & Rich S.

I also got one of the "special" (virus infected) emails with Bolt's name as the sender. It is obvious that our email addresses are scooped up off of this site. I am very pleased that I have Norton anti-virus!

Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 19:16:58 (ZULU)

Scope Base Issue:

It's been a while but I remember someone mentioning that they had trouble getting a scope down to zero at 100 yards.  As I recall this was with a standard base and 1" scope.

I was just flipping through "The Military and Police Sniper" and ran across information about Remington changing the height of the rear bridge in 1974.  Apparently the rear bridge (where the rear base bolts down) used to be .117" below the front bridge on Pre 1974 guns but was changed to .100" on Post 1974 guns.

What occurred to me was that if the rifle in question was Pre 1974 and the scope base was a Post 1974 then possibly the muzzle high angle transferred to the scope might have been the problem.

If this rings a bell for anyone and helps then fine, if not it's just more info cached away till needed.

Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 20:46:07 (ZULU)

Bolt, you get that e-mail?

So, Mike Rock has a PhD. This I did not know. Congrats Mike, hope yours wasn't pure grad school hell.

See, I can surf ebay too LOL

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?viewItem&category=31709&item=1983680170

Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 23:13:56 (ZULU)


I'm going to incorporate a walk-in vault in the basement of my new home. Anyone with plans or experience in that area that would like to share that information would be warmly welcomed and greatly appreciated. I would probably pay to send 'litos' sister to clean your fridge or maybe.... never mind. :))) Seriously, I do need some assistance. Email or post. Approx. 12'x12'in size with poured, reinforced concrete walls.

Thanx, John

edit to add: Merry CHRISTmas to all and enjoy a safe holiday season. Will be raising a toast to Pete L., all other rosterfarians and all our dedicated service men and women at 23:59Z on New Years eve.

John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Sunday, December 22, 2002, at 23:42:11 (ZULU)


John,

Will the vault room be built on an outside basement wall, or four walls in the center of the basement? If on an outside wall, is that wall below grade? Is the basement air conditioned?

Are you looking for fireproofing and theft protection or just theft protection? For fireprotection, you will need a fire rated lid on it so to speak. Remember that if you don't have a rated top/lid, etc. on the vault, whatever burns above it can fall through the lid!

You will need to Thoroseal, or the sealant of your choice, the inside surface of the walls to prevent moisture intrusion. You will also need to install a dehumidifier, preferably that can drain outside on it's on, hence the above question on room location.

Wait at least 60 days before you seal the concrete, depending of course in what climate you live. Try to find a moisture tester to check the concrete before you seal.

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 00:44:21 (ZULU)

Bolt,

It will be in a corner of the basement to utilize 2 poured walls. Steel rafters, I forget what they're called, with sheet metal on top of them and 4" concrete for the ceiling. Separate air and electrical supplies from the house with B/U comm. Interior will be environmentaly controlled with humidity as a prime consideration. :))

I wonder how thick the ceiling has to be for 1500 or so degrees for 30 minutes? I'm sure somebody on here knows. Thanks for the suggestion about the ceiling, I hadn't thought about the load factor.

By the way, the rods work flawlessly. 15# bass will not have a chance. I'm a happy camper.

John

John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 02:00:54 (ZULU)


John,

Call the manufacturer of the vault door that you intend to purchase and let them tell you the required concrete thickness for the walls and the ceiling that will match their door rating. Also, tell them to send you the manufacturers installation instructions BEFORE they pour the interior walls. You need the exact rough in measurements. It would even be preferable to have the door at the residence before it is poured.

A 4" metal deck with poured in place, wire reinforced concrete should withstand whatever you get except a tornado. Make sure that all joints and/or keyways are caulked. If you install HVAC in the room, make sure they install fire dampers in the ductwork. Use 3M or equal fire caulk at all penetrations.

Also make dang sure that they properly waterproof the basement walls AND install a french drain system!!!!!!!!!

Bolt out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 02:18:02 (ZULU)

In Basement Vault - As some of you know I am a Building Contractor. Over the years I have put a  number of "Room Safes" in homes for customers.  It is really not complcated at all. Here is a quick run down.

What I am going to describe costs about $6000 to build if out side walls are used, and at least double that if you put it in the center where all 4 walls are non-exterior walls.  I use two chambers in a 12 x12 space.  An outer 8 x12 chamber with a 4 hour rated Steel door that is for secure storage/ storm shelter.  The Inner 4 x 12 is the actual vault. I use Liberty doors with a non-electronic lock poured right into the concrete wall.  I line both areas with either sheet rock or cedar walls and ceiling, with a raised wood floor.  The structural ceiling is steel and reinforced concrete to withstand a 500 psf of loading, which means the house can fall in on it and stay intact.  I use a dehumidifier permanantly mounted in both areas and drain it to the basement floor drain.  Lights are on a seperate circuit and done to comercial fire code.  In some I have put some sophisticated alarms, as well as Halon and co2 fire supression systems.  I use sprinklers in most of the houses I build to really raise the fire protection level. This design will stop 99% of the criminals, fire, and weather.  IT will keep you toys dry and secure.

 I will behappy to share more specific info privatelyfor those interested parties.  Things can be greatly simplified depending on your budget.  If anyone needs assistance drop me a line.  If their is anough interest I would be willing to do a write up for the Site.

Merry Christmas

Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 02:27:37 (ZULU)

cruise ships;

      I worked in a shipyard for a while before I got into water treatment. There were a few cruise ships that came in. None of them had de-sal(desalinazation) units on board. Some of the larger, newer ships do have them. Most ships have large potable water storage tanks.

      All of the cruise ships that we worked on were absolutely filthy. They don't let passengers go below the upper few decks, which look like a palace. On the lower decks, all the daily workings of the ship takes place. The crew quarters are down there, the crew and guest galleys (kitchen), the utility deck, storage area, and dumpsters. On one ship the utility deck, storage area, garbage dumpsters and galley was connected and the cooks were barefooted and walking in garbage. There were no passengers on board while it was in the shipyard, but you can imagine they don't act any different at sea with passengers on board. Remember, the passengers never see this part of the ship.

      Here's a BIG HINT. On the cruise ads on TV, look for the country of registry. It is usually in really small letters at the bottom of the TV screen. That is the country it is licensed to operate from. They will usually be Liberia and a Carribean country. The reason for registering the ship in Liberia, etc. is that the ship company doesn't have to meet US health, safety, labor, and enviromental standards. Therefor, the crew is a bunch of Africans and Islanders that are not vaccinated, don't abide by sanatary food handling rules, etc.

       It's no wonder people get sick on these ships. I'm not saying ALL ships are like that, but the ones I worked on were.

               LATER  Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 04:31:56 (ZULU)

Jody, YECH!!!!!

Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 06:17:17 (ZULU)

I have made contact with Remington, they are sending me a spec sheet for all the changes made to the Rem 700 in its life time.

I will pass this information along ASAP.

2002 US ARMY INTERNATIONAL SNIPER COMPETITION (second annual)

We did it this year! the Americans one!

George and I just returned from the competition at Ft. Benning.

The kicker is that the top shooter was a spotter and won with an Autoloader! A custom AR-10 from GA precision. It beat all the high speed bolt guns.

The Army sniper associations web page should be up by the time you read this.

www.armysniperassociation.com.

Check it out.

Badger six out

Marty <badgerord@aol.com>
- Monday, December 23, 2002, at 06:51:52 (ZULU)

George:  WAY TO GO!

Marty: It was the technology right?

You guys a friggin dream team....!!

Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 07:27:20 (ZULU)

Marty,

I thought that shoot was open to only active military snipers.  Did George and yourself compete or was there a trade show/display area?

Speaking of all those high speed bolt guns,,, how many were wearing metal from yer shop ;))  

George,

Congradulations,, another outstanding piece of equipment.  And if I'm not mistaken,, youse got a new guy comin' in in 9 days. Maybe you could take a day off now ;))

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Well Sheeeit, 2002 season is over,,, Good new is, 2003 dates will be in next week. Look for a submission to the "Places to Shoot" on this most excellent of web sites., - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 12:19:16 (ZULU)

Rich S.,

Sent you an email, no attachments.

Don K.

Don K. <ussr@clarityconnect.com>
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 13:21:51 (ZULU)

What's up with the Canadians? In all the pics on the web site they all looked like they were in the witness protection program. :))

Don't want anybody to recognize 'em at the mall I guess.

John

John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 13:40:55 (ZULU)

Spam and & E-mail suggestion:

When displaying our e-mails on this site, how about adding an anti-spam phrase? This is common on the internet, these days.

Such as : robahenry@hotmail.com become robahenry-SC@hotmail.com

The "-SC" would obviously send the spam to an invalid address.

Hank <robahenry@hotmail.com>
- Monday, December 23, 2002, at 15:19:42 (ZULU)

"Why do I continue to pay $3 to park and $6 to go to these rotten ass, over priced, same ole stuff, rusting in the boxes, moth eaten surplus gun shows around here?"

'Cause here in denver we can get great deals on reloading supplies!  Powder at $14/lb or $102/8 lb.  Primers at $13/lot.  Speer Gold Dots at $80/1000. If it weren't for that and my addiction to beanie-babies, I wouldn't go at all.

Hank <robahenry@hotmail.com>
- Monday, December 23, 2002, at 15:32:56 (ZULU)

"The Two Towers" had a spectacular midevial battle scene.  It's worth watching for that alone.  It's messages of determination, persistance and courage in the face of evil are valid and timely.  Great war movie and great movie.

Ranger Rick, Sinister Dave and Pablo:  When you guys don't post, this place just fizzles out.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Monday, December 23, 2002, at 15:53:55 (ZULU)


Vaults in basements vs fire.

Basements tend to end up as swimming pools during house fires... this represents a much greater risk than a sustained, super-hot fire in the basement.  I have my guns in the basement and consider them well protected from fire with a layer of 5/8" gypsum board inside my safe walls.

Jim (firefighter/medic - 17 years experience)

medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Monday, December 23, 2002, at 16:20:13 (ZULU)

Hi Guys..

 Where is everybody by the way??  If I don't get a chance tomorrow I just wanted to wish you all a very MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

 I spent all weekend cleaning and reorganizind my loading room. After that I started triming brass and neck tuning some 260 Lapua brass.

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Monday, December 23, 2002, at 17:27:38 (ZULU)

Sniper Comp

The comp is only open to Military. George and I went to set up as vendors.

There was some hardware from badger, not enough, I’m still working on it.

The Canadian guys are real skiddish since the Afgan sniping report, their military will not allow pics of the snipers and a couple of guys were almost courts martialed over it.

I also found out that the 2000+ shot with the .50 in A’stan was made with a Mc Bros .50 sporting Badger rings hoo-ah. No Remorse!

Marty out.

Marty <badgerord@aol.com>
- Monday, December 23, 2002, at 17:50:09 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas to all youse guys.  Just got back from the yearly Christmas/birthday party up in Ft. Worth.  Dear God, never again.  I found out that "one shot, one kill" applies not only to riflecraft.  Never, ever EVER, let a younger, distant relative that has a chubby for the cops hand you a shot of something while you're distracted.  And never, under any circumstances, drink with someone named Lucretia.  I've not had this bad a hangover since Navy days.  There's a point where you realize that you are old enough to drink anything you want to, and old enough that you can't drink everything you want to.  I prefer to call it "maturity".....

Anybody else hear that news story outta Idaho?  I thought I heard something about a Sasquatch starting an avalanche at some ski resort.  I know Dirty Steve was out there, hope he didn't get hurt.

Well, if'n my head explodes, y'all have a merry Christmas, and be safe!  I'll be thinking of you, all snug in yer beds, with visions of 200 x 20 dancing in yer heads while I'm patrolling the mean streets.  Drive carefully, I don't want to hear of any gaping holes in the DR next year.  God Bless all of you and your families this season, and next.  

Charles S. Hunt <dpms223@aol.com>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 18:10:50 (ZULU)

Gents,

Am working on several projects and have a day off...

Wanted to wish you all the very best of Christmas's and a Happy New Year

Has anyone been able to access the Norma web site in english? My tries yesterday only found the Swedish language site and it looks like it has been "slimmed down" considerably. What gives? They did have a copy of the Norma 6.5 X .284 dimensional drawing, but it appears to be gone. Luckily, I have hard copies.

Semper Fi,

Wes

Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 18:17:42 (ZULU)

Happy Holidays Hogs,

Just want to wish the best to all and extra rations to all those forward deployed or ready to step into harms way. You know what to do, God grant the leaders the wisdom to unleash the dogs.

On another note, I'm an active duty Navy Chief shifting from the left to the right coast un hurry up orders and I need some info on civilian gun ranges/armories that can store personnel weapons in the Norfolk Va beach area. I'll be arriving in the ao on the 27th of Dec. till mid Feb.. Any info you all have would be greatly appreciated.

I already checked the fleet bases and it's a no go on the east coast to store privately owned weapons in Navy armories. I'm still waiting to hear back from a frog chief, but me thinks he might be tip toeing thru the dunes.

Thanks in advance for any help you might have.

P.S. Litosan hurry up and fix that puter of yours. The A-191 is making it's way and we need to touch base.

Chief out

Chief <dwightc11@msn.com>
TAD, USA - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 18:45:41 (ZULU)

Wes,

I went to the Norma site and it came up in Swedish, But I clicked on the UnionJack and it then came up in English.

JLU

Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 18:47:41 (ZULU)

Don, Bolt, Frank -

Thanks for the encouragement & advice. I saw this coming so I have already started my search, namely via monster.com, it just landed about 3 weeks sooner than expected. Ain't nuntin' in the local paper. Had some less than savory experiences w/ a couple headhunters 6 yrs ago, but they are a necesary evil (I'll not be nearly as nieve this time around). I'm an electrical engineer (BSEE) in the controls/automation fields, but I'm flexable/open minded...who knows what will turn up. Thankfully I don't need some thing "RIGHT NOW!!", 2-4 months is manageable. There is always the Peace Corps. Thanks guys.

As for all of you ASC#1 veterns, I have a sizable stash of BHM & my mom, if asked, WILL loan me gas $$$. ASC#2 is on my "to do" list for 2003. One must have his priorites:).

danny mull <drm8194@hotmail.com>
akron, ohio, - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 20:43:51 (ZULU)

Titan, email, no attatchments

'Lito, email, no attatchments

All cleared through Norton at this end.

Marius, excellent tweak, keep up the good work.

TO ALL HOGS AND HOGETTE'S, MERRY CHRISTMAS, AND A HAPPY AND SAFE NEW YEARS.

Sean <nailer@mackbc.com>
Mackenzie, B.C., Canada, eh - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 21:09:25 (ZULU)

Danny: You have mail, No attachments.

JLU

Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 21:18:24 (ZULU)


Merry Christmas to everyone.  

Lets not forget to say a prayer of thanks for all those serving around the world who are away from loved ones.  

Congrats to the US Sniper team, and Marty, George and Armalite. Maybe now gas guns will get some respect as legit sniper tools.  Were their any of the Mk11 Mod0's their?  I saw a few Armalites in the photos.

I have gotten over a dozen Emails on the safe room/vault topic. I will respond to each of you in the next day or so.  Sarge has asked me to put something together for the site.  I am flattered to be asked and will get something together over the next few weeks.  Each one of these I have done share the same design principles, but are all different in specific design. IF anyone wants, I can do full blown drawings and Specs for your application.

Medicjim brings up a good point about basement becoming  swimming pools in a fire.  My design utilizes a raised floor 16 to 24" above the concrete floor.  IF the flooding is worse than that, you will need some towels.  One side affect of this construction is that you get some radiation protection as well.  I have also installed climate control Systems in these rooms .  As with anything, there is no limit to what can be done if you spend enough money.  My focus has been to make this a financially viable addition to the average families new home.  

Who is taking up the collection to get  'lito a real computer anyway?  Not to start a computer war, but everyone I know with a MAC spends more time fixing it than using it.

Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 21:24:48 (ZULU)

Nailer - Your email return address is bouncing the reply I sent you.  Please advise.

Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 22:21:40 (ZULU)


******** A Soldiers Night Before Christmas ***********

Twas the night before Christmas, he lived all alone,

In a one-bedroom house, made of plaster and stone.

I had come down the chimney, with presents to give,

And to see just who, in this home, did live.

I looked all about, a strange sight I did see,

No tinsel, no presents, not even a tree.

No stockings by the mantle, just boots filled with sand,

On the wall hung pictures, of far distant lands.

With medals and badges, awards for all kinds,

A sober thought came through my mind.

For this house was different, it was dark and dreary,

I found the home of a soldier, once I could see clearly.

The soldier lay sleeping, silent, alone,

Curled up on the floor, in this one bedroom home.

The face was so gentle, the room in such disorder,

Not how I pictured a United States Soldier.

Was this the hero of whom I'd just read,

Curled up on a poncho, the floor for a bed?

I realized the families that I saw this night,

Owed their lives to these soldiers, who were willing to fight.

Soon round the world, the children would play,

And grownups would celebrate a bright Christmas Day.

They all enjoyed freedom each month of the year,

Because of the soldiers, like the one, lying here.

I couldn't help wonder how many lay alone,

On a cold Christmas Eve in a land far from home.

The very thought brought a tear to my eye,

I dropped to my knees, and started to cry.

The soldier awakened and I heard a rough voice,

"Santa don't cry, this life is my choice.

I fight for freedom, I don't ask for more,

My life is my God, my Country, My Corps."

The soldier rolled over and drifted to sleep,

I couldn't control it, I continued to weep.

I didn't want to leave on that cold, dark night,

This guardian of honor so willing to fight.  

I kept watch for hours, so silent and still,

And we both shivered, from the cold night's chill.

Then the soldier rolled over with a voice soft and pure,

Whispered, "Carry on Santa, it's Christmas Day, all is secure."

One look at my watch and I knew he was right.

 "Merry Christmas my friend, and to all a good night."

--

MK4

MK4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 22:26:20 (ZULU)

To all;

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

May our people on the pointy-end have a hot meal and a warm bunk.  

There's a nice-looking M70 HV 308 on Gunbroker;   http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=6684351

Also a m700 308 on the Emporium.  (Mine)

Semper-Fi!

Spud

d <usmcspud@msn.com>
merced, Kalifornicateya, usa - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 22:37:21 (ZULU)

Gentlemen,

The snow started falling about an hour ago so it will definitely be a white Christmas.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all of you and your families.  Please don't forget to say an extra prayer for our troops far from home.

Doc Holloway

Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The snowy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 22:53:18 (ZULU)

Shooters.com;

   I just read where Shooters.com is shutting down. Thought somebody would like to know.

M14 clones;

   Has anyone here had any experience with the Armscorp rifle? I want to start a future project on a M14 type rifle. Of course I want National Match parts. Trying to get some ideas.

                LATER  Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Monday, December 23, 2002, at 23:17:40 (ZULU)

Gents,

ALERT!!! I may have inadvertently sent the list members a virus today. Recieved a message from Boltster and opened the attachement...bingo my virus scan didn't pick it up. Stripped out my mail addresses and sent it'self to all of you. Most came back indicating infected files, but some may have made it through. Be careful of any e-mail I may have sent between 10:00 AM and 2:30 PM 12/23/02.

My system has been upgraded to prevent this happening. My apologies to any members who may have been effected.

Have today and tomorrow off...and am enjoying it.

My best to all and a Merry Christmas.

Semper Fi,

Wes

Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 00:49:50 (ZULU)


I would like to find the pencil necked, hump backed son of a bitch that has targeted the Hawgs for viruses. I would rip his head off and piss down his bloody stump of a neck. He has now evidently picked me, the Boltster, for his antics. I formally invite him to meet me wherever he desires for a thorough ass whipping.

I haven't sent a list email in at least a week. Plus, my Norton scans emails before they are sent and when they come in.

Bolt, pissed off and out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 01:10:45 (ZULU)

Mk4:  I just showed up here to post that same poem, just got it from an FBI guy that tought a WMD class here a few years ago.

To all have a merry Christmas and a happy new year.  I go on for 72 at 0800, and I have to work New years eve.

Bob

Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne, Ca, USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 04:20:26 (ZULU)


Kush,

 Yeah...AMO.  Somebody's gotta make sure they still fly when the shrink wrap gets yanked off them!  And I figure that with one of these in-theater jobs--I can actually get over there.  The way my luck goes, if I went from here to a Divisional unit--it'd be designated "strategic reserve" for whatever happens.  This way, I'm there...and if we go, I can find my way into a vacancy as understrength units show up.  Some unlucky follow-on replacement can have the job I had...well, it sounds good on paper anyway...might even work...I've pulled off crazier moves.

Recruiting seems a bit slow the last 90 days.  I wonder if uncertainty over the next "big" move is slowing things down?  When the shield went to storm--the volunteers picked up.  May be the same thing now.  Dunno yet.  I'm getting the history lesson from my senior NCOs.  They know this business better than I ever will.  They say the slow quarter is from kids waiting to see what they're getting into.  Makes sense at a glance...

NKPA says they'll "destroy the earth" if we come after them.  I guess they think the "earth" extends north from the 38th parallel to the Yalu River.  Bawwww-haw-haw.  I say let'd blow them to the hermit kingdom-come.  Oooooh, haaaaaa!  I slay me....wait, here's one:  Kill Im, son!  Whhooooohoooo.  Dislexic spotter talk....whoooohhhooooo...uh-oh, my ass just fell off.

The Gulf countries say that we better move now or never...they're taking heat from their citizens over the build-up and rhetoric.  I just hope it don't go earlier than say, 1 June.  Heheh.  

And on the lighter side--Hoppy Halitosis---errr, happy holidays to all!  (I'm the dislexic spotter from above mention)

Joe M

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 07:52:12 (ZULU)

Joe,

 Dude, you've got to stop playing so hard with your friends CPT Morgan, John Danniels and James Beam.  I know it's the holidays and all but go easy or your head will explode.  Mine did.

Ref: Wind

What is the definative reference on wind effects and calling the wind?  I'm watching a thread over on Snipers Hide about wind and there is some stuff being written there that just doesn't correspond with my personal experience or training.  I'd like to do some research.  I've already exhausted my collection of PS magazines dating back to '95.

Merry Christmas to all.....

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 12:22:31 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all !!!!!

Steve from Joisey

Steven Dzupin <sdzupin@optonline.net>
Wayne, New Joisey, US of A - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 13:32:20 (ZULU)

yeeeeee---hawwwwww

I only wanted one thing for Christmas....and it came early !!!!

The dealer called me yesterday at 3pm and said it was in.....a new ToyotaMR2Spyder.....I drove all night !!!!

Later, and Merry Christmas to all.....gotta burn some more fossil fuel.....

JRMoore

JRMoore <utl@shentel.net>
Northern, Virginy, USofWonderfulA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 13:56:35 (ZULU)

Kevin..

 What are you intrested in as far as wind?? I agree with you, alot of things I have read about wind not jiving with real world shooting. I get to shoot in wind most of the time and have found mirage at the target to be the best gauge for my wind call.

 I have also had wind cancel itself out(Blowing two different directions along the path of the bullet). I think it really has a lot to do with the type of terrain your shooting across too. This is a good topic because it seperates the men from the boys.

 With lazer range finders, range is not the real problem wind is. Its a fickle mistress thats for sure.

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 14:58:42 (ZULU)

Ref: Wind Interest

I'm interested in learning more about zero value wind.  Head wind and tail wind and what effect they have at long ranges.  I've always assumed little or none but others have different opinions.

out

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 15:16:09 (ZULU)

Andy's Dad, I've had wind that SHOULD have been zero (from my heels to the target) give me erotic results. Erotic in you should have seen the curves! I'm just saying that lots of zero wind, at least here, really isn't zero wind. And Joe might be playing full contact tag with CPT Morgan, but hey, who hasn't? My head didn't explode, OK, so someone in front of me could have commented differently.

Merry Christmas to the lot of you reprobates, and may next year be even better than last year. Let's hope that Santa has that one elf on the ammo production line working hard for the midnight delivery.

And don't do anything like take up a collection for the kittywhackers computer, he's busy enjoying life right now, even moreso tomorrow, and doesn't need a computer anyway. He's got a good PC, and the Mac, well, isn't a computer to begin with. JUST TEASING!

Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 15:45:07 (ZULU)

Mornin' Gentlemen,

First let me say Thank You for allowing me in this august circle.

My interest in long range shooting started a few years ago.  I am an American War Between The States reenactor.  I had been doing an impression of a line Infantry with several friends.  After 10 years of standing shoulder to shoulder burnin' powder we got bored so we started looking for something else to do.  Not wanting to get out of the Infantry (Artillery and Cavalry are WAY too expensive!!) we found an obscure mention of Sharp Shooters.  We went into research mode and developed an impression based on Cleburne's Co.H Independent Sharpshooters for our Confederate impression and Brendan's United States Sharp Shooters for our Federal impression.  

This developed into an interest to see if we could duplicate any of the documented shots made in the WBTS.  Such as the shot made on Gen. Sedgwick, 800yds with a hex bore Whitworth.  

The Hex bore Whitworth rifle is a wonderful piece of engineering.  Queen Victoria fired the opening shot of the 1860 (British) National Rifle Association match at Windbldown Down with one of Sir Joseph's hex bore rifles at 400yds the round hit the top of the upper right hand arm of the X.

I also step forward in American history to cover the westward expansion to about 1890 or so that's about the time when Texas starts becoming civilized.  Well as civilized as it was gona be.

I shoot a Shiloh Sharps 50-140-700 and a Shiloh Sharps 45-120-500.  Billy Dixon knocked a Comanche off of his horse at the range of 1530yds at the battle of Adobe Walls in far West Texas using Batt Masterson's 50-90 "Old Reliable" made by Christen Sharps.

I would be more that happy to answer any questions Y'all might have about our history as Sharp Shooters and shooting Black Powder.  Now with that said, I don't clam to be an expert, but, I will share what I know, and, if I don't know I'll find out and get back with you on this forum or by private e-mail if you wish.

Once again let me say Thanks for the opportunity to be here, and Happy Holidays.

Your Obedient Servant,

Jim McNabb

"Any society which suppress the Heritage of its conquered minorities, prevents their history, and denies them their symbols, has sewn the seed of its own destruction."

Sir William Wallace, 1281 AD

Jim McNabb <macnab@intergate.com>
The Colony, Texas, USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 16:02:52 (ZULU)

Horus Vision Reticle -

A while back, Undude told about his experience doing some testing on the Horus reticle.  Stopped in at my local dealer yesterday evening to do some last minute shopping and he showed me a S&B scope that came in on pawn.  The scope had stickers on the front bell that said "Horus Vision Demo Not For Sale".

I tried the Horus demo on their web site and it seemed to work pretty well.  Problem is the web site demo ain't anything like looking through the actual scope.  All those lines and numbers are really hard to read in the actual scope, at least for my old eyes.  Anyway, the shop wants $1K if anyone is interested.

Merry Christmas to you all!

Don

Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, US of A - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 16:17:46 (ZULU)


Kevin (Andy's Dad),

Have you looked at Randolph Constantine's book "Modern Highpower Competition, from Beginner to Master."  Let me quote his last paragraph in his chapter on doping wind:

"Secondly, I want to caution you not to be one-sided in your approach to doping the wind.  I still believe that mirage, when it is present, is a much more discriminating indicator of the wind than the flags, but I now think you should not neglect any indicator of the wind or any of the four strategies.  If you find yourself actively ignoring one or more of the strategies, make ourself use it.  In the short term, some scores may go down, but in the long run, you will learn from it and become a better wind doper, and thus, a better shooter."

He covers a lot of good information and ideas on how deal with various conditions.  I'm still learning myself but I believe that his information will help.

Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 17:08:14 (ZULU)

 Happy Holidays to all you folks, take care and be safe.

 Update:

 Went to Alberta with the G-A Precision 338 Lapua and killed a meat moose.  Close shot at about 180 yards, 300 grain Sierra to the lungs, traveled another 30 to 40 yards and "expired".

 During load development I got as high as 3046 fps with the Sierra 300 (not recommended) but currently shoot at 2850 and will go for 2950 on next load workup.  (32 inch Mike Rock barrel and a CZ 550 Safari action.)

 If you happen across a few of the Atropine or 2-Pam-Chl auto-injectors take a look at the internal mechanism(s)... pretty good pressure release system... could be converted or copied for other uses.

 My son is in Germany now, went last month to V Corp (Army lingo stuff, don't have a clue what it means... in the Navy we had real names for stuff!).

 Tac-Ord 6.5 x 284 (Norma) should be here in a while, new rifle to shoot and play with, also have a G-A precision "Gumby" version rifle in 243 Win on the way.... more toys.

 Again, take care and be safe.

 

Dave "Doc" King <David_L_King@Yahoo.Com>
USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 17:15:58 (ZULU)

All you hogs have a Merry, Healthy and Safe Xmas.

God Bless you and yours and hope your dreams come true.

TonyY...

TonyY <ayackowski@pershing.com>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 17:54:27 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas to all those and their families that visit here and have a safe and enjoyable holiday season. A special Merry Christmas and thank you to all of you on the edge protecting our freedom.

Kimbershooter <ricki@i-c.net>
Disputanta, Va., USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 18:07:36 (ZULU)

M14 Clones  - Jody, I ordered an Armscorp M14 for a friend of mine a few years back (rack grade) and it shot okay.  But a local retired Marine armorer took a look at it and called it a piece of doody.  Bad chamber/head spacing etc.  They sell the NM receivers in the Shotgun news for a few hundred dollars but I don't have any experience with these.  When it came time to get myself an M14 clone, I ordered a new rear lugged receiver from Springfield Armory for about $600.  Then I shipped it off to the good folks at Fulton Armory with $1800, almost a year later I got it back as a National Match Peerless rifle...I love how this gun shoots and shoots and shoots...I gues what I am trying to say is the old adage is true ...you get what you pay for.

Anyone have any experience with that new Blaser R93 long range gun in .338 Lapua?  Any thoughts?  (I'm toying with the idea of getting one of these in .338 Lapua.)  Note contrary to what GUNS magazine would lead you to believe, the caliber/barrel changes only apply to the smaller calibers...the .338 Lapua guns cannot be fitted with barrels for the other available calibers -- from the SIGARMS website.

A used HORUS Vision sight for $1K..seems high (is it in pristine condition?)...their website sells scopes for about $1K new and the Schmidt and Bender model for about $1500.

Any thoughts you hogs have would be most welcome.  Now I'll shut up!

Gerry

Gerry <gerryc@teleport.com>
Newberg, OR, USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 19:46:56 (ZULU)

I generally don't post long jokes and stuff copied from emails but I have to do it this time LOLLOLLOL :)

"Presidential election that was too close to call.  Neither the Republican presidential candidate nor the Democratic presidential candidate had enough votes to win the election.  Therefore, it was decided that there should be an ice fishing contest between the two candidates to determine the final winner.

There was much talk about ballot recounting, court challenges, etc., but a week-long ice fishing competition seemed the (manly) way to settle things. The candidate that caught the most fish at the end of the week would win. After a lot of back and forth discussion, it was decided that the contest would take place on a remote and cold lake in Wisconsin.

There were to be no observers present, and both men were to be sent out separately on this remote lake and return daily with their catch for counting and verification.  At the end of the first day, George W. returned to the starting line and he had ten fish.  Soon, Al Gore returned and had no fish.  Well, everyone assumed he was just having another bad hair day or something and hopefully, he would catch up the next day.

At the end of the 2nd day George W. came in with 20 fish and Al Gore came in again with none.

That evening, Bill Clinton got together secretly with Al and said, "Al, I think George W. is a low-life cheatin' son-of-a-gun.  I want you to go out tomorrow and don't even bother with fishing. Just spy on him and see if he is cheating in any way.

The next night (after George W.comes back with 50 fish), Bill Clinton said to Al, "Well, what about it, is George W. cheatin'?"

Al replied, "He sure is, Bill, he's cutting holes in the ice."

Boltster starting the holidays off in a good mood for a change, OUT!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 19:48:58 (ZULU)


MERRY  CHRISTMAS  Y'ALL!

Jim McNabb;

  I'd like to see a match using the old school stuff. I bet that's cool.

  I try to go to the re-enactments here in the Mobile area. The local fellas put on a good show considering how small they are. The re-enactments at Blakeley and Forts Morgan and Gaines are the only War of Northern Aggression battles done around here. Fort Gaines has a functional 32 pounder facing the mouth of Mobile Bay. I love when they fire it.

  If you ever come over this way, look me up.

  Do you have a Whitworth? I've been wanting one.

Bolt;

  That was funny.

Christmas;

  All I want for Christmas is for everyone to remember what Christmas is all about. And no, it ain't commercialism.

  I heard on the radio yesterday something about a small town is doing a "festival of lights" or something like that because two families in the town didn't like Christmas. Now, the town Christmas tree is the "red, white, and blue tree". I think they said it's in Montgomery County, MD. Not sure , just heard bits and pieces on the radio at work.

                LATER  Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 19:51:32 (ZULU)


>>>>I shoot a Shiloh Sharps 50-140-700 and a Shiloh Sharps 45-120-500.  Billy Dixon knocked a Comanche off of his horse at the range of 1530yds at the battle of Adobe Walls in far West Texas using Batt Masterson's 50-90 "Old Reliable" made by Christen Sharps.<<<<<

Jim,

First of all, welcome to the DR.

I believe that there are several things you've said that need to be clarified.

First of all the Adobe Walls Fight of 1874 took place in the Texas Panhandle (NE of Amarillo) in what's considered NW Texas rather than far West Texas which would be more represented by the Permian Basin/Guadalupe Mountains/El Paso area.

Also, I've seen nowhere in his book where he used Bat Mastersons rifle. I believe the rifle he used belonged to Henry Hanrahan, one of the "Walls" businessmen. Dixon lost his "Big 50" only a few days prior to the battle while trying to cross the Canadian River while it was on the rise. The rifle he bought for himself after arriving at the Adobe Walls settlement was in 44-77 Sharps, not his preferred caliber but the next best thing to the Big Fifty. At the beginning of the battle, Dixon found himself separated from his ammo which was in the next building, hence his need for borrowing a rifle.

The distance of the shot that Dixon allegedy made @ 1538 yards has proven to be incorrect. Yes, it does say in the book "The Life of Billy Dixon" that the distance was appoximately 7/8 of a mile. A quick work of the calculator will tell you thats 1540 yards. The original 1914 copy of "The Life and Times of Billy Dixon at Adobe Walls Texas" says differently. That figure was more specific and more accurate @ 1200 yards (still a good shot though). Somewhere between the 1914 and 1927 publications, the distance was changed.

Since then, modern surveyors with lazer range-finding equip. have determined that nothing lines up with the 1538 yard distance. Having said that, you have to understand the geography around Adobe Walls area which is in the Canadian River Basin and the Indian in question, was shot along the edge of an escarpment. Dixon was a surveryor himself and was right all along.

The Adobe Walls name came from a trading post built by William Bent of Bents Fort fame in the 1840s and was a vain attempt in trying to trade with the Indians of that time period. The problem was there were too often more than one tribe there at any time and the Bents realized that it was too risky in trying to stay alive with one's own scalp intact.

The First Battle of Adobe Walls took place in 1864 and involved Kit Carson (having worked at Adobe Walls 20 years earlier) was now commander of the First Cavalry, New Mexico Volunteers and dispatched to engage the Comanche and Kiowa Indians and to put a stop to the raiding and attacking of wagons along the Santa Fe Trail. Not going into too much detail about this, Carson was faced with overwhelming odds and if not for a couple of mountain howitzers, would've been faced with the same fate as Custer. What was left of the (original) Adobe Walls in 1874 wasn't much and the buffalo hunters even at that time were unclear of its origination. The buildings that the merchants and hunters of 1874 built, were made of sod...and its a good thing that they were.

--

I'm also curious as to why you're shooting the 50-140 and the 45-120 as neither of these calibers are original Sharps chamberings as opposed to the 50-90 X 2.5 or the 45-110 X 2 7/8 which are. The rifle made for Tom Selleck in his excellent movie, "Quigley Down Under" was chambered for the 45-110 X 2 7/8. This rifle and 2 others were made for Selleck, the Producer and Director by Wolgang Droege, the original owner of Shiloh Rifle Mfg. These rifles designed for Selleck, had a LOP of 14.5" with a 34" barrel.

--

MK4

MK4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 20:26:05 (ZULU)

I have an Armscorp rifle that shoots sub moa groups, Krieger barreled but otherwise stock. I've got another one on the way. If they were junk I don't think you'd find George Gardner offering to build rifles for people with them. I know all manufacturers have a bad lot occasionally but as a rule, I think Armscorp builds a decent receiver. IMHuneducatedO better tnan the new Springfoield by miles.

Headed for the snow plow, what a way to spend Christmas eve. You guys enjoy the egg nog for me.

John

John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 21:13:49 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas, all.  May God watch over you in the coming year and protect you and those you love.

Special thanks to those who stand in the gap.

Mike

BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
- Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 21:32:28 (ZULU)

To All:

I want to wish all of you a Merry Christmas, and a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year.

I also want to extend my heartfelt thanks to all who have chosen to be apart from their loved ones and to risk their lives for the preservation of freedom and justice.

My beloved wife and I just returned from Albuquerque where we attended a Christmas Eve service. It included prayers for all victims of terrorists, for our leaders, and for all who protect freedom and justice.

We all should offer up similar prayers.

Thanks to all of you here whom I count as my good friends. You guys have seen me through some hard times and have helped me celebrate the good ones!

Tonight we will put out the luminarias (farolitos for those in the Northern part of the State) and go to our neighbors' house for a good ole-fashioned Christmas Eve celebration.....posole, tamales, enchiladas, green chile stew, bizcochitos.......maybe a cerveza or two!

I hope all of you have as wonderful a time!

Very Best,

Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 22:05:21 (ZULU)

To all those that are separated from their familes over the Holidays we send our prayers that you may remain safe. This is not just our military but those that serve in other ways. The police, fire, EMS and hospital workers around the country and world that are keeping us secure. May your days, and nights :-), be as peaceful as can be hoped for.

May the Lord keep us safe, one and all, as we approach a New Year.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Marius, Sarge, Scott, Pete

The Sniper Country Council

Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 22:23:00 (ZULU)

'Lito or those who may know;

I know the Stealth has a cut-rifled bbl.  

What about the Winchester Coyote?  Forged, cut, buttoned...?

The m700 VS.  Same "issues" as the rest of the M700s?  (As in lack of QC resulting in a possible POS?)

And again,  Merry Christmas to all.  ALL of you on the pointy-end stay safe.  Will toss a Jack or two down for you all tonight.

And thanks to those who listened to my venting related to our family tragedies.  We are all well at this time.

Semper-Fi!

Spud

dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
me, Kalifornicateya, usa - Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 22:49:57 (ZULU)