Sniper Country Duty Roster

Pat asked-"Where is camp McCoy"

Why it's right here under my ass, son...Heheh. Couldn't resist being a smart ass...but to be specific, I90 and I94 come out of Chicago seperately (one to Milwaukee, the other further west), and link up again in Madison. About 90 miles north of Madison, they split off again. The area above and between that intersection is Fort McCoy. The most convenient airport is Lacrosse, the least expensive is Minnie-St Paul or Chicago. Amtrack comes into Tomah (local 'berg) and the Buses run there too. If I am still around by then, I can send a fifteen-pax van out for trans from everywhere except Chi-town.

With the exception of Rick's ranges--the ranges here are better than most of them at Bragg. Big political bucks poured into this hole during Clinton's reign.

The billeting should be free, as long as no one minds an open bay two story WWII "theater Construction, temporary wood frame structure" that is modernized to include heat (likely) or air (yeah right). I think the many layers of paint hide the fact that the frames rotted out 50 years back! Heheh. Kevin, the coal you would remember here is gone finally, about ten years ago, they converted.

Joe M.

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 00:14:30 (ZULU)

A match at Ft. McCoy?

I can't pass this up. Count me in as well.

What's the course of fire?

Michael A. Litscher <mlitscher@wi.rr.com>
Brew City, WI, - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 00:39:38 (ZULU)

Does anyone have any experience with the shooting mats that Tactical Tailor sells. They are very reasonably priced, and I was curious if anyone had any comments about their quality. $75 is a lot cheaper that something like a SMRA from Eagle.

-mike

Michael Roberts <robertsmj@missouri.edu>
MidMO, MO, USA - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 00:48:42 (ZULU)

Ken M, Mail inbound regarding McCoy Match, NA.

Spent some time there one summer early 80's. Most of it was in the medical clinic telling reservist that the had to go back to duty and passing out big doses of penicillin for what ailed em! BTW the officers quarters were only slightly less delapidated than the enlisted digs. We did however get AC for the med clinic. One of those don't ask, don't tell arraingements.

Dennis Muldrew <dmuldrew@swbell.net>
Overland Park, KS, USA - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 01:07:19 (ZULU)

Evening Gents,

Robert: That is hands down the funniest thing I have read in quite some time. If the rest are like that, take up all the bandwith you want. DSL can handle it...

Brian: I've spent a ridiculous amount of time in a wetsuit. I cant even take a piss in one, much less pitch a loaf. The "Olympics" necessary to get into and out of a wetsuit are worth not doing that to oneself. eeeyyyaaagggghhhh. Cant even picture it. Hope the ducks were worth it to your friend. The Boss told me this one the other day...

What will a Cajun eat?

1. Anything with 2 legs thats not a person

2. Anything with 4 legs thats not a table

3. ANYTHING that lives in the water

I believe we would fry mosquitos if we could figure out a way to filet them.

Bolt: I'm sympathetic. I was in Norfolk in '96. Probably the best thing I learned about that snow-stuff was stay away from snow covered curbs. Old Dominions curbs gently sloped towards the road. Add a few inches of the cold, wet, fluffy stuff, and an invincible 21 yr old from Manchac Swamp and you get disaster in the form of said invincible Cajun-Machinist Mate 3rd class shooting out into the street. Kinda looked like going down a waterslide into oncoming traffic. All said and done, I'm happy to be back by the Swamp.

On another note, Is there such a thing as a Simunition .308 training round? If so, do they require modifications?

Chase Temple <istu9946@selu.edu>
Hammond, LA, USA - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 01:45:09 (ZULU)

Hey Robert H, and John...

If you're gonna paste junk you get in e-mails to the Roster... PLEASE clean it up, and take the dead space and ">>s" out so it doesn't look like shit, and take up 10 screens worth of space... P-L-E-A-S-E!!

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 02:17:28 (ZULU)

Jerry S. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

Grasshopper: That was great that you let that guy use your rifle.I scored his target and he shot exellent for a first timer, hopefully he is hooked . But why did you steer him away from a PSS? Mine shoots better than I do and my partner won the match that day with a PSS, with a score of 302. Just curious Dan H.

Dan H. <hogans@cmc.net>
chico , Ca, USA - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 02:24:50 (ZULU)

OK. Stoopid novice question. Again.

Ordered a stock from Bell and Carlson for a Sako Forester. Sent it back, for quality reasons not worth describing. The replacement was bad, but not AS bad. (The action and bottom metal alignment on the second stock were so far off that the action screws would not even thread into the holes.) Fixed that problem with a dremel tool (on the stock).

Going to bed it, if only to fill in big gaps. Figure first the action, then the bottom guard, then the barrell, in three separate steps. (Need to raise the guard - it is too deep.)

Question: Is there a better, easier to work with bedding compound than the Brownell's Accu-Glass, which is all I have ever used? I have read here about marine-tex or something. Is this a 2-part epoxy? Looking for something simple that I can use in steps. With the Accu-Glass, it is an all-at-once thing, and I will have to buy three kits.

Thanks for any suggestion. If this is too simple for this list, private e-mail is fine and much appreciated. Don't want to bore (boor) anyone. Thanks.

P. M. Hayden <pmhayden@yahoo.com>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 04:01:31 (ZULU)

Dang guys, I get sent away to in-service training and miss all the fun, you guys have a spirited discussion on pistols, and the boys here at home got to go out and play without me. Two BG's in jail and one less Meth lab out here in the boonies.

Brian - have you ever had that bad-assed pepper spray fail ya. A few years ago I arrested a guy for shoplifting and assaulting the store manager who tried to stop him. Well, he didn't take to kindly to being arrested and started to resist, alot, if you know what I mean. We had just finished the training and had been issued our new shiny cans of pepper so I figured I'd give it a try in the real world. (hell, it made me cry like a friggen baby when they sprayed me in training.) I sprayed this guy until his face was orange, he licked it off of his lips and said that it tasted pretty good. Never did have an effect on him, I had to do it the old fashioned way but finally got him cuffed. Used it a number of times since then and it has worked great, but that first time was the shits.

Color-coded Conditions: Our team was called out, looking for two guys who had burned down an apartment complex that was under construction, then bragged about doing it as well as how many of us hick town cops they would take out if we tried to arrest them. We knew they were in a second floor apt. in another complex. I was the first one in the building and as I waited for the rest of the team to group behind me the BG's came down the stairs and into the hallway. I went to my knees, whipped up the AR-15 and yelled "freeze" as the guy behind me brought his shotgun into play. They both reached for the ceiling yelling "please don't shoot", it was then that I noticed that the one on the left had a dark stain on the front of his pants and a puddle forming on the floor. Would that be considered condition "yellow"? :) :)

Sorry for the bandwidth guys.

Ya'll Take Care!

Rob Opp

Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 09:04:55 (ZULU)

Ken M.

Emailed ya re: match. N/A.

Chase T.

.308 simunition...OUCH! Those ain't paintballs my man.

J.Hugdahl,

Wisconsin sounds friendly 'nuff. One of us is gonna have to get a nickname.

Chris, email. N/A

John

John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 09:45:13 (ZULU)

This one is for any one of you guys. The question is, How do I maintain or should I say temporary clean bottom side of my free floating barrel without having to take the stick apart for a major maintenance ? I would appreciate any pointers.

On a none related note, did anyone hear about the new sniper movie "Sniper 2" primier on 28 Dec 02. on Cinemax? Not important, just viewing :)

Thanks

Eduardo Cotto <Eduardocotto@hotmail.com>
Bay, Michigan, USA - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 10:09:31 (ZULU)

Eduardo,

If I suspect there's junk in the channel I take a business card and slide it under the barrel in front of the recoil jug/barrel pad and pull it out toward the muzzle. If I think I'm going to get it filled,. I'll take a piece of 550 cord gut and slip it in before leaving the truck. Then when I get to where I need to be I just grab it and pull it out the front and it's clear.

The second tip learned right here, thanks Undude.

Bell and Carson,

I'm hearing that Remington has switched over to Bell and Carson stocks for the VS models. Can anyone confirm that? That would seriously harm their worth IMHO,, as the B&C isn't even worth as much as a trade in. Not saying they are POS stocks,, but not as good as HS IMHO.

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
I've laughed, I've Cried, I've learned how to Cook Cat , I've also learned that you'll be able to shoot 20 shats,,, er,, shots,, at 500, 600 and 1000 yards at the AEDC on Dec 15th,, drop me a mail for more info. , - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 11:26:11 (ZULU)

Robert,

Yep. OC don't always work. Specially some Cajuns, they use it for pasta topping.

Here in Southeast WI, a couple years ago, a local State Trooper was in a car chase with an armed bank robber, shots had been fired at the scene. Chase ended with a crash at a north IL toll both. Trooper got out to go on foot chase. BG stopped, wanted to fight, no gun in sight. Trooper got out his new shiney can-o-spray and let BG have a face full. Hmm, nothing, a fight was on. Turns out he too had just come back from OC training, ended up with a can of INERT training spray. Way Bad juju. Anaway, the BG fights him, lands a Mike Tyson straight to the face, concussion results, Trooper gets a bear hold cause he can't see past all the stars & birdies floatin round his head. Suddenly the BG reaches over his shoulder blasting with a gun. You guessed it, the troopers gun. Murphy was there for both as the first round fired by BG was to his own head. Lucky for Trooper, his head was at BG's right shoulder, BG shot over, or tried to, his left shoulder. BG went to dirt like a sac-o-spuds. Trooper, still dazed and bleeding, was wondering where BG got a gun till he went for his holster. Oh crap! At least it ended ok. Damned folks at Trooper training station had issued a few folks some of the inert stuff I heard.

Kinda like .308 simmunitions, NO WAY. Surely would still be potentially lethal.

out

Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K town, WI, US of Good ole A - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 11:30:16 (ZULU)

Dang it 'Lito, how come you always gots to bust my bubble? He,he.

Did I get a passing grade on my correction? Now it'll take all day to get my brain back in order. (or is that disorder.)

John

John <jhugdahl@pressenter.com>
Hudson, WI, USA - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 11:39:37 (ZULU)

SniperII?

Was the first one such a triumph?

All pepper spray would do to my wife is give her a hankerin' for crab claws, lemon grass and a side of jasmine rice.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 13:20:05 (ZULU)

Thanks to all you guys who offered directions to Camp McCoy!! I actually found it on the map.

Bell&Carlson stocks...

My brother bought one for his Sako and he couldn't even get the action screws in it. If you turned it upside down and looked down it, it looked like a bow instead of a rifle stock.

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 13:29:06 (ZULU)

P. M. Hayden...

Accra-glsss is probably the worst I have ever used. Marine Tex is very good, as is Microbed. Micro-bed can be mixed in as small a quanity you want. Also Brownells "Steel Bed" is great, and can also be mixed in whatever amount you want. Make sure you use a good release agent, or you will be an unhappy camper (read the archives about a month ago :(((

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 13:45:15 (ZULU)

Smallpox vaccinations. Oh joy.

I remember getting mine when I was a kid. There was always somebody knocking the scab off and I felt just as bad.

http://msnbc.com/news/843411.asp?0cv=NB10#BODY

MK4

MK4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 14:01:51 (ZULU)

Guys anybody else make this connection, Saddum Insane says he's going to turn over the "I'm a good boy and don't have any nasty play toys" document a day earlier than it is required. It is suppose to be in on Dec. 8th. But he's giving it up on DECEMBER 7TH!!!! Ummmmm????

Sarge

Sarge <sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 14:15:13 (ZULU)

Krauthammer's take on denying rogue regiemes WMDs. This is very good.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/964dzkuf.asp

To all you operational guys: It may be getting close to party time. Good luck.

Bedding kits: Natural Kiwi shoe polish works great for release agent.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 14:28:57 (ZULU)

Sarge...Ref Dec 7th.

Last time, we weren't ready. Would you hit Mike Tyson in the face while he was looking you in the eye saying "move and I'm gonna eat your ear!"?

medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 14:54:31 (ZULU)

Sniper 2, is Berringer's attempt to make up for Sniper. He hired some 8541 instructors to work with and coach him. He wanted this one right. You should not see any BS gear. You might even see a sling or two that you recognize.LOL

Undude/Mike

MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 14:57:04 (ZULU)

Bruce R.

I got the plates and stickers yesterday afternoon. Very nice, thanks.

Nick

Nicholas Gebhardt <gebhardt02@yahoo.com>
Memphis, TN, US - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 15:03:07 (ZULU)

Bell and Carlson bites the big weenie.

Remington dumped HS for a year or two (trying to go the cheaper route) went to BC and have since gone back to HS (for the VS, P and LTR models anyway). That was the last time I talked to Janice ? at HS Prec. Nice lady. Call. She'll give you the run down. Knows her shit.

Only way to tell the difference in the stocks is the trademark stamp on the bedding block inside, under the action. I sent all this to Snipersonline earlier this year after researching it but tossed the notes like a dumbass. Guess I ought to call her back.

It came up because on the B/C stocks, the swivel studs are threaded into the glass only, not the strength of the bedding block like the HSs are. That's why MC M puts a big T Nut or a big piece of steel in theirs to screw into IF YOU ASK FOR IT.

DOUGY: I swore to myself a long time ago not to judge another man until I had looked thru his scope. I have had it done to me and it too, bites the big weenie.

That said ... and correct me if I am missing something but ...

The cops got an ARMED ROBBERY (A Felony crime) with shots fired ? They stop the BG and ... ARE GOING TO USE MACE ??????????????????

Oh no, not here. Not initially anyway.

If that's all there is to it and there aren't any circumstances we don't know about (there usually is). That Trooper is damn lucky he didn't get his stupid ass killed.

I know State Police in a lot of places breed that "I shall fear no evil, baddest guy in the valley creedo" That is because they are often one man, far from back up and they don't want to teach them to QUIT when it gets dark and scary.

But the problem with that is, if you believe it too much, that's exactly where you will be walking.

Macho shit aside, ya gotta work smart. Always somebody badder'n you.

I'm preaching to the choir.

I have BSd my way out of more ass kickings than I can remember but then ... I know you guys find that hard to believe. heh heh

Tha brings up a good question.

Is BS a Martial Art ?

'Cause if it is, I think I am a Jedi.

brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 15:26:56 (ZULU)

The only thing wrong with the San Andreas Fault hasn't finished it's job and let San Francisco slide into the ocean (maybe with the rest of the state)... Why the hell San Francisco's Federal district court has jurisdiction over nine western states beats the hell outa me... that's like putting Pee-Wee Herman in charge of the NFL!!

This is the battle that we have wanted (and feared) for 65 years. We will either win real big, or our future as gun owners is doomed :(((

GO here:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/12/06/MN211218.DTL

Sniper II... in spite of many (and I do mean M-A-N-Y) flaws with the orginal "Sniper", I enjoyed it much more than "Enemy at the Gates", which I never even botherd to watch the ending... it sucked!

Hope Sniper-II corrects the errors, and keeps the good stuff.

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 15:38:43 (ZULU)

Macintosh junkies...

I gots a problem :((

With my 9600, I had a hard crash, and it wouldn't re-start. I hooked up an emergency drive to boot on, and when booted, the main hard drive is now "Locked" (little lock icon on the top left of the window when I open the drive).

I can open the main drive window and click on stuff and some of it will open. Some of the programs will work if they don't need to access preferences or other things, cuz EVERYTHING in the drive is locked (can't be written to or moved).

I want to drag my files out to another (new, larger) drive, but it won't allow me to copy out my files... I can't drag anything out of the drive, can't copy anything out, I can't move anything in or out of it, and it won't boot cuz all the operating systen files are also locked... does anyone know how to unlock a locked hard-drive??

I tried Norton Disk Doctor, plus Lacie Silver, and other disk tools, and they all say the disk is looked (Duh!), but don't have a tool to unlock it.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeelp!!

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter is here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 15:55:36 (ZULU)

Brian- If you mean Janet at HS Precision you are too late. If we are thinking of the same person you are right about her knowing her stuff. I'm not sure what has been going on at HS for the past year but several good people have left , JR and Janet being just two of them . I asked Jenet about some of the earlier departures and she gave me the party line. I have two of their rifles ,both "shoot" beyond expectations( thanks JR) but both had little problems that I wouldn't have expected. The most recent rifle was delivered with a bolt release that would bind on the stock ,so the first time I worked the bolt it came out in my hand. Rather than send it back , which is what they suggested, I fixed it myself.

Rod

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 15:56:49 (ZULU)

Brian...

Janet is no more at H-S... they gave her the boot :((

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter is here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 15:58:15 (ZULU)

"Is BS a Martial Art ?"

Around here it is.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 16:00:22 (ZULU)

WOW. I wasnt expecting answers using caps. Maybe I should have found cover after that one. I guess everybody needs a little calibration once in a while. Let me try to clarify...

I am the "BG" for the local swat team and get to use 9mm Simunitions on a decently regular basis. 9mm is fine and as long as the required PPE is worn(I wear the helmet w/ goggles, throat protector, cup, lvl 3 vest, and gloves, longsleeves, etc)they dont hurt all that much.

I was thinking of something more along the lines of a "dumbed down" version for .308. Something with significantly less velocity than FED GMM. Maybe more like the velocities found with the 9mm or .40 simunitions. Just enough to get it out the barrell and have a comparable range to the pistol calibers or perhaps a bit farther. It might just be wishful thinking on my part as accuracy can be questionable and including the shooters position within the designated and sanitized safety area could be difficult to maintain. It takes two physical searches, empty pockets, and a metal detector search to get inside our areas. Once inside, you cannot leave.

We'll call this one my fault, as I should have been more clear with what I was asking. As always, any input is greatly appreciated.

Chase Temple <istu9946@selu.edu>
Hammond, LA, 70403 - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 16:09:14 (ZULU)

aye, confirmed:

Janet Thompson, not Janice, is no longer at HS Precision. She's a good ol' gal, we still keep in touch, and youse guys are reeeeeaaaalllly gonna miss her if you have to call up HS.. Just keep this as a mental note, or write it down, if you have a technical question for HS, ask for Doug, accept no one else.. Only one left with a clue..

later

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 16:17:48 (ZULU)

Undude -

Speer 30cal 190gr match: bc=0.54 (per Speer manual #12, printed 98)

danny mull <drm8194@hotmail.com>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 16:30:28 (ZULU)

Hawgs,

subj: GA SC Duty Roster Rifles

I just got back from a Trip to Wisconsin. I took a tour of Rock Creek Barrels facility.

Mike Rock broke out the "White Carpet" for me. About 2 inches of snow.

I have never seen anyone who loves there job more than Mike. Upon entering his shop. I saw medium sized shop filled to the brim with all types of barrel making equipment. The first thing Mike showed me was the barrels he is making for George for the Roster Rifles. I fondled just about all of them...Bet you guys are Jealous now.

Mike then asks me what the barrel is that I ordered. I informed him it was a 308 cal for a 300Win Mag 1:10. He grabs a blank and starts a lecture on the procedures of drilling, contouring, fluting, rifleing of the barrels. During this time we are building my Barrel. He has his shop set up. So he starts one proceduce on one blank, moves to the next tooling machine, starts another and so on. When he gets a couple going. He goes back to the first just as it is finishing. Knowing the exact timing of each procedure.

Mike is an awesome guy who absolutely loves what he does, including teaching why things are done. I didnt have much time in the shop. I regretted that I had a plane to catch. But I learned alot and came away with an better understanding of barrel manufacturing and made a good friend.

There is know doubt in my mind why George uses Mikes barrels.

PS. Mike has a few new products/patents that will be anounced at the next Shot Show. All I can say is, Its a good time to be in Special Forces.

Bryan

bryan <bherman699@aol.com>
CA, - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 16:30:52 (ZULU)

10-4 on Janet being gone. A big loss for them in my book, she asked me for a recomendation letter and I wrote her a nice one. She was a class act in my book.

JR..

I would like to get a stock repainted out to H&S with the sand and spinich camo color to match my others. Who should I talk to about this would Doug be a go to guy for this??? Thanks!!

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 16:36:55 (ZULU)

Re: Tom Beringer

Sniper 2! Ha ha. What I'd really like to see is him playing Bob the Nailer in a film version of Point of Impact.

Alex Tham <atham@earthlink.net>
Diamond Bar, CA, US - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 16:40:36 (ZULU)

Urinating in a wet suit....ah, that sure does bring back the memories. Kinda like working for the SAPD, you get a warm feeling all over, but nobody notices. It all depends on the depth at which you try to do it. At Dreager depths, no sweat, it just kinda happens when you feel the urge. Regular scuba, you gotta really want it to happen, as you hafta equal the water pressure, and anything over 2 atmospheres requires some effort. 3 atmospheres, forget it, and any solid waste has to stay where it's at, 'cuz you really DON'T want to open yer sphincter when yer that deep.....unless you like being reminded of Granny's remedy for constipation. If my foggy memory serves me correctly, pucker factor prevents that, anyway.

They say we have to carry an intermedate weapon here for the SAPD, but have this dimwitted rule that you have to have it used on you, first, before you can carry it. So, they want me to get sprayed in the face before I can have pepper spray. Now, I may be from South Carolina, but I do have the capability to learn from others. I didn't let them shoot me before they gave me a pistol, and I'm not dumb enough to let someone rub a couple hundred jalapenos in my eyes for the privilege of carrying a can of superheated hairspray. Ever spit out the window and had it come back on ya? (if yer from Texas, you know what I mean) Now, if it hurts the peckerwood, it can hurt me. But I ain't never had a 36" piece of hickory bounce back on me whilst I was applyin' it to some dirtbag's melon....keep yer pepper spray.

CDC.....Thanks. I was just wanting to know so's I'd know where to go when I shoot this one out.

Charles S. Hunt <dpms223@aol.com>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 17:00:29 (ZULU)

Guys,

sorry, but there is no fondling allowed in a Scottish barrel shop.. that is unless your voice is about 3 octaves higher than mine in addition to a considerable cup size. If you meet those qualifications, fondle away, but the barrelmaker gets first dibs..

Hellllooooo Nurse!

It is kinda funny that people who watch us makin barrels think we have some kind of sixth sense with these machines, so I'll leave it at that..

later

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 18:45:08 (ZULU)

JR..

You do, you just don't realize it!! Thanks for the info I will give them a call in a week or two.

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 19:23:44 (ZULU)

Brian,

I hereby dub thee

Brian the (In)Sain - Knight of the Roster table, Holder of the Cajun Clans silver Luge tray of pie fights, and Lord Master of the art of BS......

Secret handshake!

Hi Sign!!!!!!!

heh-heh

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 20:14:33 (ZULU)

Pat (HA!)...

I just spoke to H-S and the price for repainting a black M24 to Sand & Spinache w/spider web is now $105 plus $15 shipping, with one to two weeks turn around... I should'a sent it in Sept, when it was $95 :(( Bummer.

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter's here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 21:24:16 (ZULU)

PETE: I'd like to thank the Academy ...

Hey guys, we hit a house for some grass. Shitter was broke in the place and they were using a full 5 gallon bucket to fill up the tank.

A bad guy had just taken a dump and was going to pour some water in the tank when the SWAT truck yanked the burglar bars off the front door. He ran and grabbed the dope and threw it in the commode but overfilled it with grass and it wouldn't flush. Spilled the bucket and water was all over the floor.

Tiny bathroom.

'bout that time a flash bang comes through the window and lands in the middle of the bathroom floor.

Can you say BOOM ? ... I knew you could.

He was soaking wet and covered from head to toe with shit and wet marijuana when we got to him.

"What ya'll had to go and do me that fuh ?" he he.

brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 21:33:33 (ZULU)

Brian,

yah, funny ha ha, except for the dude that has to stuff him.. I'd tow him back to the precinct, like the dog on Vacation starring Christy Brinkley and Chevy Chase...

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 21:58:07 (ZULU)

MILITARY DESIGNATED MARKSMAN POIs

Am setting up a 2 day course and while I have my outline done, I would like to hear from those who have something they have run before also.

Pls email me at jeff.waters1@us.army.mil

Thanks

Jefe <diabloazul01@hotmail.com>
- Friday, December 6, 2002, at 22:49:09 (ZULU)

I need a little advice from you hogs. I have bought another Leupold MK4 M1 with mildot reticle at a good price. The only thing is that this one has been painted with a camo pattern. I want to strip the paint off and get back to the original Leupold finish. Anyone out there got any suggestions as to what paint stripper to use that won't damage the original finish ? I am going to put this one on one of George Gardner's great creations......thanks

Kimbershooter <ricki@i-c.net>
Disputanta, Va., - Friday, December 6, 2002, at 23:23:56 (ZULU)

I've got a friend that's looking to build a 338RUM up and neither of us can find what the max OAL of a remington or winchester magnum action is. Is the RUM actions larger/wider than a standard LA? I figure just the feed lips are different but am not sure so....

He's wanting a repeater that will facilitate an OAL of 3.55" with 300SMK's.

Any ideas of how long he could go if he got a 300WM for a donor?

Thanks Hawgs,, and congradulations Sir Brian of the (in)Sain, oh Exhuberant Knight of BS,, ;)))

FatBoy...

Charles S.,

I tried to e-mail you off-line, send me better e-mail address...

Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 00:32:44 (ZULU)

Kimbershooter...

Use a standard paint remover, mineral spirits, and 1/2" brushes.

Use a small brushe to put remover on, let set, and use a brush with mineral spirits to wash it off... do it in small patches. Put some on, let it set, and wash it off

Keep the gook away from the lenses, and out of the turrets.

A water soluble one is also good, just wash off the patches with hot, soapy water.

When finished, wash the whole thing in soap and water, and let dry in the disdrainer (keep it out of the dishwasher/dryer). Look for missed spots, and do them again if required.

It will be good as new... the black finish will not be damaged.

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter's here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 00:36:17 (ZULU)

Byron,

You have the dubious honor of being the first to post on Dec 7th mang....

Let us remember today, all those that lost their lives 61 years ago,, by an attack from a group of sneeky bastards.... and let us now be vigilant in whipping the new lot of sneeky bastard off the face of the earth.

FatBoy...

Thanks 'lito,

I won the thing on ebay with a 700.00 bid so the little work involved is worth it. Do you know if Premier or Leupold can (will) convert it to a M3?

Kimbershooter <ricki@i-c.net>
Disputanta, Va., - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 01:07:11 (ZULU)

Chris,

Well, all I can say is unlike other events that have occured on this date, mine was not planned. It was spure of the moment trying to pass on some insight to Charles' dilemma over OC.

Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 01:09:33 (ZULU)

Kimbershooter...

Nope... can't be converted to an M3. But it is a good scope as it it.

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter's here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 01:23:06 (ZULU)

UNdude/Mike

THE BC for the Speer 190 Gr match is .540 Sec Den is 286

See Loadbooks 1990 Ed for the 308 Win Page 24.

The Sierra 190 Gr Match lists the BC as .610 Sec Den is also 286.

I checked my old reloading books including gthe 1970 issued of Spper and the loadbook in 308 Win is the onl one that listed the 190 lots of info on the 180s

Hope this help.

Bomac <biker3@earthlink.net>
- Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 01:28:58 (ZULU)

In-Sain, congrats, buddy! peteR annointed me with the "Sinister" moniker and I like it.

Jim in Joisey, the Swede I was looking for (with the plastic ball at the end of the turned-down bolt handle but without the off-hand section added to the stock belly): http://www.sarcoinc.com/guns12-3.html

Paul, try the forums at macgurus.com. Lotsa Mac-smart folks there (somebody may have the answer). Hope it wasn't the RAID that locked up.

Charles, you only have to get pepper-sprayed once (and it'll blow dead bears for about four hours) -- man is that a handy weapon.

Sinister Dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
- Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 01:36:45 (ZULU)

Byron,

and unlike the attack in 41,, you're input will likely be very well received.

FatBoy...

Please read the entire message before reading the signature because:

The best part is the signature!!

SEMPER FI: 01

FROGS: 00

(This is a treasure)

A funny thing happened to me yesterday at Camp Bondsteel (Bosnia):

A French army officer walked up to me in the PX, and told me he thought we(Americans) were a bunch of cowboys and were going to provoke a war. He said if such a thing happens, we wouldn't be able to count on the support of France.

I told him that it didn't surprise me. Since we had come to France's rescue in World War I, World War II, Vietnam, and the Cold War, their ingratitude and jealousy was due to surface at some point in the near future anyway. That is why France is a third-rate military power with a socialist economy and a bunch of faggots for soldiers.

I additionally told him that America, being a nation of deeds and action, not words, would do whatever it had to do, and France's support was only for show anyway. Just like in ALL NATO exercises, the US would shoulder 85% of the burden, as evidenced by the fact that the French officer was shopping in the American PX, and not the other way around.

He began to get belligerent at that point, and I told him if he would like to, I would meet him outside in front of the Burger King and beat his ass in front of the entire Multi-National Brigade East, thus demonstrating that even the smallest American had more fight in him than the average Frenchman.

He called me a barbarian cowboy and walked away in a huff.

With friends like these, who needs enemies?

Mary Beth Johnson LtCol, USMC

HA!!

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 02:32:23 (ZULU)

JR: The last of their breeding stock was lost at Verdun. That little popcorn fart country has a veto in the UN Security Council. What a joke.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 02:39:46 (ZULU)

JR, I think I met Mary Beth once...hmmm...no, this soldier was Army. Anyway, guy I worked for had rental property. We were renovating after a tenet skipped out owing money. Seems the X tenet left his military dress uniform behind. He returned to try and get them when we were there....called my boss a stupid SB, fistacuff erupted with said X tenet getting a good arse woopin by a guy 30 years his senior. X tenet claimed old guy was in trouble now because he was going to return with his commanding officer. Commanding officer returns with him and listens to "old guys" version of what happened. C.O. asks me if the story was accurate. Upon hearing that it was SHE turns to young soldier and tells him that she would have kicked his arse too under the circumstances, then asked my boss to return the "Greens" as they were gov't property. Also assured him that he would get every penny he was due for rent.

Louis <Stoner25MKIV@aol.com>
Floyds Knobs, In, - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 02:49:15 (ZULU)

>>>>>> With friends like these, who needs enemies? <<<<<

Since I haven't kept up with the news lately and with the thought of an Iraqi war looming, I was just wondering if the French had surrendered yet?

MK4

MK4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 03:49:19 (ZULU)

In-Sain,

We hit an apartment a couple mornings ago, Heroin dealer, recently released from an IL prison, parole for homicide, bragged to all his cohorts how he would NEVER go back to prison. Seems he & another piece o crap did an armed home invasion on an older couple in town. Local POlice & Gang unit worked up a warrant. We did a no-knock about O-Dark thirty. I was outside doing the sniper/perimeter thing at the only window, with my M4 config. Heard the team breach, then the entry team leader calls, "He 'moused' up." That meant he burrowed right inside the wall where I was standing. Turns out ole Willie Bad Ass crawled under the bed as soon as he heard his door gettin hit. He thought it was OTHER drug dealers coming to kill him. Left his woman & kid out for bait. What a pussy that bad guy. Ya jus never know. Bought the wife a rem 700VSS tonight in 22-250. Told her it was an early Xmas present. Like the Love of my life, she says, "If you want another rifle, just buy it. You don't have to make some story for me." I am one lucky man. No new(renewed) thread intended.

ouy

Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K town, WI, US of good ole A - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 03:55:02 (ZULU)

Thanks guys for the info on the BC for the Speer 190's. The .540 is probably a little high as my experience with Speers versus Sierra is the Speers were always slight lower BC (by a smidge) That BC info on the Sierra 190's seems high to me. If memory serves me its more like an average of .533 or so. That .610 is higher than I remember.

Litto, heck you can make a stock any color for a few dollars and change it for a few dollars more. Krylon is magic.

Ken If I am in country I will do all I can to attend. Waiting to hear where I will be.

Undude/Mike

MikeMIller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 03:59:48 (ZULU)

Sinister...

Thanks for the heads up on MacGurus. Last time I was there (about 1 1/2 years ago) they didn't have forums. That where I got my RAID board, and some other VLD parts and stuff.

Now they gots forums, and don't sell stuff... go figure?

Anyway... it wasn't the RAID, it was my main drive that went and locked itself, so I asked over there... looking at the forums, there are some heavy hitters and smart puppies over there... (MacCountry? HA!).

Mike...

Hell, I can slobber paint on it just as bad as any other fool, but I want the Sand & Spinache w/spider web that H-S has... it'll match my 300WM. Kinda like "Bobbsy Twins".

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter's here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 04:37:45 (ZULU)

Undude,

190 BTHP-MK SIERRA (2100 fps +) 0.533

190 BTHP-MK SIERRA (1600-2100 fps) 0.525

190 BTHP-MK SIERRA (1600 fps -)) 0.515

Got an Excel spreadsheet with info on most .308's

Lemme know if you want a copy.

jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 04:52:58 (ZULU)

So is it Sir Brian or Lord Master Brian ?

We got a Sir Wesley already. Either way, I'm honored.

Personally, I think I like Sir. Hard to beat company like Wes.

Hawgette my ass 'lito. HA ! Double Ha ! Thanks Pete !

Hit 'em for 18 hrs today. Santy Claus is comin' ...

I think I want a Bill Bagwell Bowie.

brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 06:09:20 (ZULU)

Hey you Yahoos!!!!

I'm in sunny Yokusuka Japan teaching the US Navy to fight and repell boarders and shit. Its fricking cold and wet and I live a hotel room smaller than the walkin closet in my hacienda in Alabama.

I'll be posting here infrequently as the navy compooter we have in the orofice doesnt have Java enabled on it so I cant post so am at the base library fighting little brats for access to a compooter.

Its Dec 7th here in Japan. Watched Pearl harbor on Japanese TV last night. Jap sub titles with Engrish then when the Japanese talk in Jap...NO SUBTITLES! Hey WTF! ANyway, nobody is recognising the day over here which is funny being on a Navy base.

We had some IEDs lobbed at Camp Zama, the army base North of here a few weeks ago by a home made Mortar. I guess the badguys are partial to them over here. No one hurt and the projectiles didnt 'splode. We are waiting to see what happens re: Saddam. Things might get exciting round hyar.

ANyway, ya'll stay loose and be thankful you are in the good ole USA. Like they say, you dont really appriciate it till you go out of conus.

Out here.

Pirate 1st Class Gooch

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 07:01:51 (ZULU)

JR- Thanks for confirming that it was Janet, not Janice, at HS Precision. After nearly 4 years and dozens and dozens of phone calls I would hate to have been using the wrong name.

Rod

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 13:09:10 (ZULU)

hopefully this won't start a "Virus Country" thread...

Some of the newer viri use email addresses harvested on a computer or from the Internet and use them as *forged* return addresses to send them to some of the other harvested addresses. For the semi-technically inclined among you, you can check the incoming message headers for where it was actually sent from, as opposed to what the stamped return address says.

Kind of like getting a letter with a return address of "Nome, Alaska" with a NYC,NY postmark. Someone is playing fast and loose with the "rules".

Rod Regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com>
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 13:17:03 (ZULU)

"So is it Sir Brian or Lord Master Brian ?"

Its "Crawfish eatin' coonass" and don't get uppity.

(Smiley face here. I don't want him flying his 275 lb girl-friend up here to kick my ass.)

"I think I want a Bill Bagwell Bowie."

You won't be getting a new knife. You're getting a new power. You may want to hold off making a decision until you check out John Smith's current work. It's amazing. Jerry Fisk's and Jim Crowell's too. Crowell's is my favorite of the lot.

The Federal Gubment recently declared Jerry a national treasure or a historical landmark or something. All I know is, he is a Hell of a nice guy who builds a Hell of a good knife.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 13:45:12 (ZULU)

JR:

I saw that same post sent to me by a Marine friend. What are the two words the French can never say????

............ " WE WON !" .............................HA!!!

Jim Abbott <jaa.jr@verizon.net>
Flower Mound, Texas, USA - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 13:56:04 (ZULU)

KEN HUNTER:

You Got Mail Re a Lefty Remmy 700 VS in .308 for sale.

Don

Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, USA - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 14:45:05 (ZULU)

CDC,

Is there a problem with Crawfish eating??????????????????

Juuuust kidding! Damn you really do have a "Bowie Blade Fetish" by the names listed thar.

Had some Chipotle pepper laced CHILE for lunch yesterday, (28 WS /30 F at work) and thought maybe some Jambalaya, and a BIG ASS plate of mudbugs might be good tonight...............

be back soon

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 15:20:21 (ZULU)

Lord (In)Sain,

Shades of the Alamo, you gots to go outside of Texas to get a decent Bowie? ;)))))

MK4

MK4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 16:24:53 (ZULU)

Gooch,

Take care and SEMPER-FI!

And watch your "SIX" around them swabbies... ;o)

(Just kiddin', Squids.)

Spud

Dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
Merced, Kalisocialistfornia, USA - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 17:07:23 (ZULU)

Received my new, slightly used Winchester M70 Classic Featherweight in 6.5x55 today. Thanks 'lito, but ya guessed wrong, it's a long action. Anybody want to buy a Badger base for a Win. short action cheap?

Don

Don K. <ussr@clarityconnect.com>
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 17:19:21 (ZULU)

I'll be runnin' up the Colors here pretty quick (Before I set up the tree and Christmas lights- wierd, eh?) in memory of Dec. 7.

Wonder how many flags I'll see flyin' today.

I actually did my retirement ceremony on the Arizona Memorial back in '91. Lt. General Milligan, FMFPAC, did the honors. Solemn, bitter-sweet. Gave a special salute to the Marines and Sailors who reside there.

Used to have "ship-Over" ceremonies out there, too.

Sorry for the "memories"...

I'll be tippin' a coupla "Jacks" tonight for those that have gone before, those that are, and those that will.

Take care studs. (and that means you hard-core ladies, too.)

Spud

Dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
Merced, Kalisocialistfornia, USA - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 17:24:57 (ZULU)

Byron: I replied to your mail off-line of the DR, so I wouldn't have to eat up space here. Suffice it to say, I have NO misconceptions about OC spray. It's not always effective, but has been touted as some kind of "wonder spray" that will take down the baddest of the bad. Sheesh. Nothing could be further from the truth. And to insist that new recruits get sprayed in the face so they can look at a judge and say "daddy, I know it would hurt, so I had to do it" is not now, and never has been, legally necessary. Now, in dealing with countless numbers of dopers, crackheads, sprayheads, heroin addicts, drunks and just plain old icky mean people, I've never run across one that didn't respond to the swift application of a hard object to the side of the head, just below the ear. Scrambles the switchboard just long enough to get an edge. I HAVE seen a stone cold sober man stand there and say "Yer pissing me off!" when getting sprayed dead in the face with that stuff. So, keep it, and I'll keep my asp and my "woody". Part of the problem is the growing tendency to rely on new gimmicks to replace old-fashioned gumption. If we spray 'em, we won't have to rassle with 'em, mentality. Administrators and accountants are beginning to lise sight of the fact that sometimes, ya just gotta dance with the ugly folk.

Howas rule.

Charles S. Hunt <dpms223@aol.com>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 17:48:28 (ZULU)

re: Point of Impact / Bob the Nailer as a movie

retitled "Shooter" last ref I saw (probably because there is a 1993 movie already called Point of Impact - darn!) They'll probably change the title again because there is a movie produced in 2000 that is titled "Shooter".

Last info I saw had Keanu Reeves cast as the lead. Kind of young to play a character that had served in Vietnam and then was a civilian for a number of years afterwards. That would make the character 30++.

(I don't feel like digging out the book to fine-tune the chronology). Of course, by the time they get around to making the movie, he could be old enough to be believable. Keanu was born in 1964. Liked him in The Matrix.

My choice would have been Tommy Lee Jones, but he's starting to get a bit old for the role. He was born in 1946. (No aspersion on you mature guys - I'm starting to get into that territory myself.)

Rod Regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com>
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 18:31:10 (ZULU)

Get home from Edinburgh, pour myself a muckle dram of fine single malt, log on, double tap SC DR, and I see:

Lord Brian? Lord Master Brian????

sheesh, give a Texan an inch....more like 'court jester'(kinda rhymes), ya clown shoe... haaa...

Gooch,

good luck over there...

Pat,

no problemo dude, I'll try to swing thru Pierre if I decide to head out to Rapid for a day or two..

later aye, lassies on the menu tonite....

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 19:00:08 (ZULU)

Ok M3LR question, I use the 175SMK over 44 gr of Varget with Lapua brass and Fed GM210M primers chronographed at an avg of 2600fps. Using the .30-06 cam I KNOW the fps is a bit slow. 100 yd groups are sub-minute even the 200 yd groups hold sub-minute when I do my part. Now the question, at 300 yds dialing the cam to "3" I shoot 3" high of POA. Taking it down 1 click lowers the POI 3" below POA! Going 1/2 click doesn't help. Suggestions? Am I going to have to do somemore load testing to get the fps up to 2685 or is it 2680?

Sarge

Sarge <sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 19:58:56 (ZULU)

MARK: I like Bagwells knives. He's in Tejas.

JR: Watch them lassies assies. I think Scottish chicks would dig me.

ALL: One of Rich Johnsons Snipers got shot last night. He's okay. BG shot him in the arm with a .44 mag. BG shot 3-4 times. Damn dope warrant.

brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 20:19:13 (ZULU)

"Mucle dram?"

What the Hell?

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 20:29:40 (ZULU)

Yeah, Dan I was just gonna let it go.

I just figured he was ALREADY crying assed drunk and said he was missing Uncle Sam ???? Mucle dram ?

Speak bloody English laddy.

brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 20:42:24 (ZULU)

>>>>Get home from Edinburgh, pour myself a muckle dram of fine single malt, log on, double tap SC DR, and I see:

Lord Brian? Lord Master Brian????

sheesh, give a Texan an inch....more like 'court jester'(kinda rhymes), ya clown shoe... haaa...<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Try to show a coon ass some respect and look where it gets me ;)))))

BTW JR, for a single malt does Glenlivet get the nod in old Scotland? Muckle dram?

>>>>>MARK: I like Bagwells knives. He's in Tejas.<<<<<<<

Hmmm. My mistake. Got a web site? **edit note. I sure like this edit thingy.** That's not the same Bill Bagwell that used to sell 1874 Sharps Rifles is it? Surely not.**

Don,

HOW much for the Winchester Badger base? Contact offline if you like. I'm really looking for a level base for a Winnie 70 HBV though. Now if I could just find a used set of standard 30mm Badger Rings.

December 7, 1941. Less we forget.

MK4

MK4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 20:54:59 (ZULU)

Old Vet:

Still looking for the best caliber for my mauser action (vz24)

action is really nice. in the white,smooth rails,matching bolt,it

is as slick a baby's behind. is it to be 6.5x55,7.08, 7.06, 308

or 280. need help here, so speak out ,i'm all ears. i will be

reloading my own.

looked at two stocks,Wenig's lam. tac. & Richard's Microfit lam.

tac.

old vet,out

it's bad out there, you guys all come home safe.

JOHN DE RENO <jsdereno@horizonview.net>
South Salem, Ohio, U.S. OF A. - Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 21:42:33 (ZULU)

What's the rifle for?

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 22:26:22 (ZULU)

cdc;

have family (sisters,brother) out in eastern Oregon

near a John Day River and Umatilla Nat. Forst. ranch 15k.ac.

total ac. 19k. we shoot from 3800ft.-4600ft alt. most of ranch

is 3600ft. up. goats ,elk, chuckers,steers,wild horses. big cats

coytoes. we have set sites and target stands from 100yds to 1200yds

one problem we shoot a little down hill, not more then 12deg.on

a level. been shooting M1 Garand, M1A1,Savage110.06,out to 600yds

want to crank it up and get out to 800yds+.

old vet

cut the BG no slack, and come home safe

JOHN DE RENO <jsdereno@horizonview.net>
South Salem, Ohio, U.S. OF A. - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 02:17:27 (ZULU)

Dennis (SPUD), where did you get your bumper sticker "got mildot?"

Darren...

Darren <usmc_dd214_1990@yahoo.com>
San Francisco, CA, USA - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 04:31:00 (ZULU)

"...goats,elk, chuckers, steers, wild horses, big cats, coytoes..."

.280 is the only one on your list that is good for elk. Use the 175 Nosler partitions. .30-06 is better yet. I've never shot a horse but I've been sorely tempted.

"...want to crank it up and get out to 800yds+..."

You can hit at that range, but you can't get clean kills.

If you shoot more of the bigger stuff, the .30-06 is better. If you shoot more of the smaller stuff, I'd go the .280.

I prefer shooting the .280.

That sounds like a very nice place.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 04:54:57 (ZULU)

test

Charlie Shoesmith <chog67@aol.com>
Lee's Summit, MO, USA - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 05:14:43 (ZULU)

Good Morning all, hah,

A little English-English translation needed, eh?

ok, a muckle means a lot of, much, great, large. We call Langholm here 'Muckletoon' or 'big city'. Not to be confused with muck, or 'mucky', which basically means crap. A dram is a measure of whiskey, I'm not sure exactly how much is in a dram, but it's loosely used here for a 'shot'. So, a 'muckle dram' can mean a large measure of whiskey. Sometimes confused with a 'muckle beast', which is a whole new ballgame. Pete from Yorkshire may be able to clear this up, sometimes it's tough gettin thru these Borders dialects and getting clear definitions, words and phrases mean different things in your different villages.. You'd think the Highland dialect would be the toughest to understand, nope, unless they speak Gaelic, their English is good. Hawick, here in the Borders about 25 miles from me, has to be use of the most bastardised excuses for english that I have heard to date, beats Glaswegian by a mile.. I think they just make shit up to confuse me.. I do have to say that was the oddest feeling when I got here, they(Scots) understand everything you say(cuz it's perfect English), and you know that what they speak is supposed to be some form of english, but nope, nothin registers, not even in the 'I get the drift' sense. So youse drink a muckle a whiskey, and it all becomes more clear by the end of the night...

I could type in Geordie English.... Aa's nee gannin theor...

Glenlivet is top notch single malt. My personal favorite is Glenmorangie (Glen of Tranquility), all good stuff, can't go wrong with single malt..

Nivvor ower de it

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 06:53:20 (ZULU)

Darren,

Bruce Robinson is selling the mildot front licence plates and the sticker together I think.

Speaking of Bruce,, where ya been mang? PeteR starts visiting again and you take a break,,, I see how it is.... ;))

Passed on a 40X, single shot with a FAT barrel chambered out in 6x284, wood 40X stock with 4" rail etc, etc,,, with dies and all yesterday for $800. It had a neat trigger,, factory adjustable BR trigger, adjustable kinda like a Jewell,, through the shoe. I learn something new each day at the gunshow,, but most of the time it's others miss-informed, ignorant information about guns that stands out. (NOT the 40X shooter)For instance,, yesterday I learned a Jennings .380 is a top quality pistol,, and is utterly reliable. How was I to know ;))

JR,

You never did say what "at the chinky" means.....

FatBoy...

Glenmorangie, mmmmmmmmm (insert drooling & slurping sounds)!

Dennis Muldrew <dmuldrew@swbell.net>
- Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 14:58:16 (ZULU)

Gents,

Chris, suspect "at the chinky" is something you don't want to know

Gunshows...great source of misinformation. I don't even attend most of them any more. Dealers want to much, etc.

Second showing on the house today or tomorrow. Hope it sells and we can move closer to work. I'm spending 4+ hours a day on prep time and road time. To damn much. Besides, all that gas money could go to important stuff...like bullets, brass, powder, etc.

Scotch...lots of good ones JR. Sounds like you're "settling in" just fine over there. Personally, I used to be a Ripple and Seven-Up man...;-)

All for now...duty calls.

Semper Fi.

Wes

Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 16:29:07 (ZULU)

CHRIS: Was the Jennings a Target Model ?

Q: What do you call a blonde standing on her head ?

A: A brunette with bad breath.

Q: What is an open can of tuna at a lesbian party ?

A: Potpourri

Going shopping with the missus. Ya'll are smart enough to figure the MO out.

Later dudes

brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 16:40:27 (ZULU)

HOGs, all this talk of knives makes me give up my great source for what feels to me like the best damm fighting knife I have ever used. Its Siminoch Knives http://www.simonichknives.com/home.htm.

I have one of the production knives and man its beyond belief. Old Dog sent one to me as a gift (What a nice guy) because he said I did not know what a good knife was until I tried one of these. It handles like a small knife, but is big. Its called the "Raven Combat" from the MIdtech line. Well I took the bad boy out and started chopping away at all kindfs of stuff. Wanted to see what it would do. I have had other knives feel good and chip, dull you name it so I was skeptical. I started chopping firewood and plywood with it. First swipe at some 3/4 AC exterior plywood chopped a corner about 5" off the plywood. So I beat the hell out of this thing choppping anything I could without getting killed by the Lady Lorraine for chopping on.

I could not dull this knife and it chopped like an axe. After I was in a sweat the knife still cutt paper like a razor.

If you are looking for a BOwie size fighting knife look here!

Darren, I get more questions around town about my "Got Mildots" sticker than anything else.

Undude

MikeMIller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 16:52:44 (ZULU)

Wes - agree with you 100% on the gunshow issue. Items are over priced, admissions here are $8.00 and to walk around and sell something they want a table fee. It used to be the place to go to get hard to find items or Military surplus stuff. Now with the net these things are easily obtainable without the drive and the crowds. Heck, the last two I have been to, we had more fun spoting the undercover ATF agents. I quit going after an ATF set up dealer tried to sell me M-16 fire control parts when I asked about the MFG of the match triggers he had on the table at a really low price. I was told buy the seller that the full-auto parts he had were legal to own and no class III paperwork was required. What do they think, people are that stupid? Especially here in Michigan where there, by state law, is no class III period. It's one thing to enforce the laws but to entrap people and entice them into breaking laws is abuse of authority and criminal. Especially when those who would fall for it are to stupid to know what they were being asked to buy is illegal.

Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 17:16:18 (ZULU)

CDC...Never shot a horse?

I have had the distasteful job of putting down 3, actually 2 horses and a pony..One with 45ACP hardball, the other 2 with 245 gr. Kieth SWCs out of a 44 mag...The results are sudden and dramatic when the shot is placed behind the ear..You have to be careful of how close to the beast you are standing as they drop instantaneously.

Buck season ended yesterday..Brock shot another, 5 point, at 4:30. I saw nothing with horns so, the score this year was Brock 3 and the old man 1..Have a week of doe hunting left; time to gather more burger.

For those who might be interested, S&W has some 5" bbls. for older Model 29 revolvers..Call Vito at the Performance Center. They only had 10 or so when I had my old 8 3/8s rebarrelled last month.

outa here

Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Whackin' white tails in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 17:19:05 (ZULU)

CDC...Never shot a horse?

For those who might be interested, S&W has some 5" bbls. for older Model 29 revolvers..Call Vito at the Performance Center. They only had 10 or so when I had my old 8 3/8s rebarrelled last month.

outa here

Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Whackin' white tails in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 17:19:19 (ZULU)

Titan...I assume you've read Unintended Consequences, but if not, it is a must read..There was supposed to be a sequal to that book. Anyone have any clue about that???????

outa here again; sorry for the double post.

Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Whackin' white tails in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 17:25:23 (ZULU)

Markwell - Yeah, I read it back in 2001 when I was laid up with my knee. It is a good read, infact I read each chapter twice just to digest it all. The incident I mentioned above happened back in 1996, right after the crime bill was enacted. ATF was using stings at gunshows and under cover agents mingling in the crowd just like in the book. HHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM????????????????

I wonder what a sequal would be like, as the book had good closure at it's conclusion. I would buy it though. Look at what the Author has gone through since he wrote the book. The ATF even tried to set him up using his exwife, or so the story goes.

Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 17:46:47 (ZULU)

Hi all,

Just got my rifle back from George at GA Precision. I'm sure you all are familiar with the kind of work he does. If not, it is excellent.

I told him I wanted it as close to USMC spec as he could get it, with the exception of the Wichita swivels. He even had an old Unertl mount for it. So, I guess it's as close to a real M40-A1 as you can get.

Paul C., you still around?

Semper Fi

Steve

Steve <TeufelHund7599@cs.com>
Corpus Christi, TX, USA - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 18:12:56 (ZULU)

Gunsmith needed , maybe . Since i cannot find a picatinney or tapered base by any manufacturer for my steyr ssg p11 , here's the thought . What about haveing my 30 mil steyr rings machined or lapped to a 20 moa taper ? Any thoughts ?

art <atraison@shaw.ca>
- Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 18:27:15 (ZULU)

Glenmorangie, Glenlivet, Glenfiddich, and Pigs Nose. JR, they even export that last one out of the area? Been in a few pubs there LOL. "give a Texan an inch". Yeah, that's what Santa Anna said. Next thing you know, the Mexicans lost the whole tamale. Then they had to go and ruin a good thing. But what's this bagging on the frogs? Don't you know they have the best fighter in the world, that Mirage? Insert derisive laugher here. Other than making decent food from basically rubbish, and some rather good artists quite some while ago, what do they contribute to the world? Oh yes, the best machinists and mechanics in the world. More derisive laugher.

Fatboy, Jennings is a good combat pistol. That's why they beat the the rest (S&W, Sig, Beretta, Colt, Kimber, etc) out for the pimps union official throw down contract in the big easy. You notice that their quality, reliability, and accuracy caused the demise of Raven, right?

Brian, how about "Son of Lafette". That not only sounds good, but isn't rude as well. Suppose how rude it is depends on where you're from on second thought. Anyone eats mudbugs and can outlive those birds with fangs and watermoccasins is OK in my book.

Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 18:58:18 (ZULU)

Hogs,

There is going to be a (hopefully) quick interruption in services on the Roster.

Marius

Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
- Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 19:21:18 (ZULU)

Hogs,

Hope you like the little new feature...

Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
- Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 20:33:52 (ZULU)

Goddamnit. got rammed by another kamikhazi box head in one of them new VW beetles today, on my way back from baiting the pigs. My damn van stalled at a cross roads, I put the hazzard warning lights on,got my finger stuck in the key fob and was just restarting the engine and this twit didn't see me, he was blinded by the sun. He insisted that because i had come from the road to his left, he had right of way.. yes if we had got there at the same time, but i got there at least a minute before hand. Now i'm sure that you are supposed to stop for obstructions in the road which have hazzard lights on.. no doubt he and his wife will lie and give me the blame. F@#$%^. I still aint got paid out for the last one. why oh why am i always at the wrong place/wrong time. Buggeritall I need a tank.

GW, you guys still using the Charley G? i used to like playing with the practice 6.5 (adapter sub-caliber) I seem to remember shooting a fox with one once. The Brits have a spotting round in the LAW90, i can't remenber if its 8mm or 6.5, but it was developed to be the same trajectory as the 94mm rocket, you pop away at your target with the spotter and when you hit it, swich to main, and boom..

JR, you seemed to have settled in nicely , and you seem to have fine taste in malt whiskey. The Scots dialect's are great aren't they. Glasgow sounds common as hell, but most of the rest of them are very pleasing to the ear. I spent 2 1/2 years with a Jock Infantry Bn, I gained a Scotts accent during that time. I can't stand the damn Geordie accent though, that comes from spending 2 years with a Geordie Arty Regiment, thats where i figured out why the Brits call the Arty blokes "Planks". I owe you some cash. Cheque ok?

Pete

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 21:00:58 (ZULU)

Hogs, good news/bad news on "Point of Impact" movie: The bad news is that the project is on indefinite hold. Several people are interested, but it hasn't come together yet. The good news is Keanu Reeves is out and Tommy Lee Jones is in. Latest details here:

http://www.upcomingmovies.com/shooter.html

Undude: How does Simonich compare to Mad Dog knives? I have a Mako you can beat on if you want to give it a try. They are tool steel, differentially tempered with a chrome plating. Very tough, Louie Awerbuck turned me on to them. I'm not crazy about the handle design, though, doesn't fit my hand very well.

What kind of response do you get to your "Got Mildots?" sticker? All I get is "What's that mean?" I tell them it's a shibboleth. Then they have to ask me what that means.

Grasshopper <wd6cmu@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 21:01:39 (ZULU)

Advice needed....Finally got to shoot me new piece yesterday. It requires 15" of elevation on the scope for a 100yd zero.

Does anyone know of any tricks to tell if this due to the rifle or bases or rings?

Rifle=223 PSS

Bases=Leupold STD 2-piece

Rings=Leupold STD

Scope=el cheapo 3-9x40

If this is due to bad barrel/receiver alignment, would 'blueprinting' fix it?

Lito - thanks for the earlier advice, but I would prefer to stay away from anything QD, as I've found that it tends to quickly detach at the most inappropiate moment.

Medic Jim - you hate cats? My wife has 23 of the little darlings. Breakfast time is an event in my house.

cheers guys,

Bisley Tiger

Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 21:34:53 (ZULU)

TITAN:

been a member of O.G.C.A. here in Ohio over twenty years.

been going to shows for fourty yrs. it is as bad as I have ever

seen it .ever after the 68 laws went into effect. back then, we

would set them up by going around the show. looking for M-1Car.

and thompson smg parts.they would actual try an help us with

the right parts. we acted as dumm as nose honey. right up putting our money down. then off we would go. they would dammed near run us

down, as we made our get-a-way. don't try this today , would have us

spread eagle just for messing with them.

onered(old vet)

JOHN DE RENO <jsdereno@horizonview.net>
South Salem, Ohio, U.S. OF A. - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 21:47:53 (ZULU)

Steve, where are you in the UK? maybe i know some one in the area who can check the rifle out for you( I like that - banned-it country, funny, but sad, pretty much sums it up don't it). Get rid of those mounts and that scope. spend a little on some decent mounts and a decent scope, and ask me before you buy, ( Jon B will testify to this) I may be able to save you some money.

Right, time for some shut eye, back at work in 7 hours. Pete

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 21:51:38 (ZULU)

Peter Lincoln - you got mail.

Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 22:07:34 (ZULU)

Grasshopper, are you a traveling man?

Tony B <tburkes@sbcglobal.net>
Alvin, Tx, USA - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 22:14:35 (ZULU)

Ref: G.A. Precison

About a month ago I shipped George a M700 LA to build a 6.5X.284 rifle with. I expected to have the winter to leasurely gather together what brass, dies, bullets and what not together. I just got an e-mail from George saying it'll be done next week. HOLY COW!!!! That's what I call service!!! But now I'm way behind the power curve on the other stuff. Oh well the first focal plane Gen II versions of the 6.5-20X Loopies won't be ready from Premier until January any way. I get two Christmas mornings this year.....yeeeehaaaa!

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 22:25:21 (ZULU)

cdc:

Fatboy felt the .280 was the way to go too.

guess i'll start looking for a tube. you know

being on a fixed income(the Eagle don't crap that much here)

i'm looking for a really good bbl. with out ,without having to

sell this new leg. give me the best names you know.i'll ck.

the list i got on line. i'll just have to work on the money

thing. Thanks, you guys a big help. learning more now about

long range work then the whole time in service.

JOHN DE RENO <jsdereno@horizonview.net>
South Salem, Ohio, U.S. OF A. - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 22:53:18 (ZULU)

I would greatly appreciate some offline help/info from a few of you. I have decided to seriouly consider a search for a new job in a different state, but would like to know about the gun laws to help me refine my search. If you live in WV, TN, KY, VA, NC, or PA would you please send me an email off line (don't want to tie up the DR ) & fill me in on class 3, CCW, buying a long gun/pistol, cities with bans, what's legal/illegal to posses, ect. Thank you in advance for your time & help.

-danny

danny mull <drm8194@hotmail.com>
akron, ohio, usa - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 22:53:38 (ZULU)

Kevin -- I wouldn't worry about being behind the power curve on getting that new stick up and running - the ASC#2 Rules Subcommittee on Rifle Caliber recently ruled that nothing smaller than 30 cal would be allowed.

Rod

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
Just puttin you on kevin, - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 23:10:56 (ZULU)

Old Vet,

KenM decided 280AI was the way to go, not I, but I'd take his advice without reservation. Sounds like a great all around caliber.

I'm sticking with the 6.5x284 for now. It's a proven winner and has recoil like a 223rem. For us recoil sensitive pussies,,, the 6.5 is the trick.

No luck at the gunshow again today. Passed on a C serial'd 700LA ADL for $300. Couldn't bring myself to pay more than $280. I'm really looking for a SA anyway, so screw it....

KevinM (Andy's Dad),

;)) man,, I can't wait for the report after your first range session. You think you'll be able to wait for the Gen II 20X Lupita?? That M3LR will swap right over ((; My bet,,, you'll be building another one, for your spotter, by summer.

Marius,

You are one bad MoFo,,, I like the new feature. I may start double tapping just because ;))

FatBoy...

I just got done shooting a Tupperware Match (Gloch). I will let you all know how bad I did in a month or two when the results come back. Haha. You know shooting it really wasn't all that bad. I may play with it some more next year and shoot it for real in next years match. Shooting it once a year don't really count as practice does it? I may, Dramatic puase/clear throat, put the 1911 a way for a spell and shot this thing for part of next year season.

OC spray? Call me old fashion. So I go by the old adage, You gottta dance with who brung ya. So I don't carry it either. Besides theres all way a cactus around to throw someone on.

Dirty Steve, Out

Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, December 8, 2002, at 23:52:10 (ZULU)

Don K...

I didn't guess... Winchester's site has the 6.5x55 as a short action.

If it was an old one from years ago, you should have said so. Some 10+ish years ago they very made limited runs of several calibers like 6.5x55 and .257 Roberts on long actions.

Bisley Tiger...

I don't know what you are talking about... I NEVER recommended any quick release system to you??? The only quick release systwem I ever recomended is the A.R.M.S. which is VERY expensive, and way over your head.

And, NO, Blue printing won't fix anything. You have the worst ring/base set up in the business. Get something better.

I would sugest you go back and re-read my advice. It will solve your problems, be rock solid, and cost about $60, instead of $250 to $350.

Of course... if you insist on having someone "Blueprint" your action (there is no such thing), I'm sure that there are many that will take your money.

Is there a full moon out this week???

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter's here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 00:30:05 (ZULU)

Tony B.: Not by inclination, but when necessity dictates. Why?

Grasshopper <wd6cmu@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 00:54:58 (ZULU)

Thank you, Marius!

ALAN

ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 05:02:05 (ZULU)

Pete, they still use the charlie gutsache and they got inserts or some sorta prac rounds for 66 to I think.

Ive had some better than expected happenins on the financial front recently so whilst in the big smoke today I lashed out & bought a 8lb tin of varget,flip up scope covers 140 6.5 smk & a bit of other crap then copped an earful from wifey after her waitin in the car for an hour while Im droolin thru the gun shop.If the good things continue there may be a leica lrf 1200 in this part of the world soon.AH the joys of married life.

On the downside the feral gubmint has blackmailed the states into banning pistols with 4 inch or shorter barrels,they seem to think they are easier to conceal than a 5 or 6 inch version.These "people" really suck.When I get to be president I think I'll declare an open season on past politicians :)

out

G.W

Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Monday, December 9, 2002, at 10:32:20 (ZULU)

Ref: Safety Tip

If you plan to spend $1600 on a new stick, be sure to tell the wife well in advance. It's not advisable to simply inform her a couple weeks before Christmas your going to need to write a monster check. Failing this,use ice in the first 24 hours, the swelling should go down in a couple of days.

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 12:49:48 (ZULU)

Kevin- This situation is clearly not your fault. George should shoulder all of the blame for the unfortunate timing of this financial down turn. After all you had no

reason to expect the project would be completed so quickly. I clearly remember you indicating (in writing) that you were not expecting the rifle until much later in the winter. The only question that comes to mind is whether reaction is truly related to the timing of the expenditure ? Best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery.

Rod

PS- When did you say Andy's rifle would be ready?

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Monday, December 9, 2002, at 13:34:59 (ZULU)

Hi all,

Does anyone know where I can find a SIMRAD adaptor for a M40-A1 Unertl mount? I don't know if it's a separate ring or the top half of the existing ring. Thanks.

Semper Fi

Steve

Steve <TeufelHund7599@cs.com>
Corpus Christi, TX, USA - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 13:52:45 (ZULU)

Kevin -

Tylenol for the pain, Advil for the swelling :).

Get well soon.

Nick

Nick Anzano <nanzano@mindspring.com>
Milton, NJ, USA - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 13:57:04 (ZULU)

Steve...

Check with Marty Badger. I think he has them.

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter's here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 14:50:45 (ZULU)

Lito,

Thanks. I looked on the Badger site, but couldn't find them. If I remember correctly, they used to be on there. Unless Badger doesn't list all of their stuff on the web site, I don't know if they have them anymore. Still looking....

Semper Fi

Steve

Steve <TeufelHund7599@cs.com>
Corpus Christi, TX, USA - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 15:07:28 (ZULU)

Steve...

Call Marty and ask. If he doesn't have them, I'll bet he can tell you where to get them.

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter's here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 15:34:45 (ZULU)

Marius,

Thanks! Sometimes editing just isn't appropriate when the post isn't either. :))

John

John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 16:11:35 (ZULU)

I guess it was my turn in the kicking box today... over 85 virus laden emails in one day... wow, am I lucky!

Ken, any chance we could somehow hide the email addy when a post is made... I only use this addy for the roster and it's clear someone has declared war.

Sinister - if I read you right, you made a purchase on the Swede? If you need me to stop by and take a look (to confirm condition) before they ship it, just let me know.

medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Monday, December 9, 2002, at 17:02:21 (ZULU)

Lito,

I emailed Marty. Thanks again.

Steve

Steve <TeufelHund7599@cs.com>
Corpus Christi, TX, USA - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 17:54:57 (ZULU)

GW, yeah we had them sub cal things for the 66 too, it was the Armoureres job to load the things, if i remember right we had to unscrew a plate at the back end and insert the umbilical primer thingy, 21mm rocket they fired?, hell i ain't played with one of them in years, you lot got Milan? the froggy anti tank thing? we used to have fun with them, hell i spent some tax payers money shooting them of, the equipment course to learn to repair em was a superb piss up too,we had a bloody bomb alert in one of the pubs near the barracks and the MP's came and evacuated the pub, i ended up getting friendly with the female MP captain... ( frowned upon that sort of thing you know, officers x non com's, but lust knoweth no boundaries or rank)

Lito. I think bisley t is refring to,, was it the burris Z rings? what ever you told him to get, he's probably referencing to a picture on the net or in a catalogue that is incorrect, either way he needs to bin them rings he's got and then buy a S&B..scope and some decent rings. I told him i'd take a nikon over a leupold, you agree?

Here's a funny one for you, now just call me Mr Bean or plain unlucky if you like, but after having my car crashed yesterday, i do a 12 hour shift, go home, get changed into bed attire and want to watch Band of Brothers (the final 2 episodes) on the TV, turn the box on, no bloody satellite signal, bugger, its cold out, the damn dish is on a pole at the bottom of the garden, behing a load of bushes, I display the signal strength and lock indicator on the tv and go and push the dish and pole around a bit, hopeing to get it back in the right place, back in the apartment i go, still no bloody lock, so there i am back and forth, no joy, I can't see the damn TV from out side so its all guess work, after about a half hour, still no damn signal, I get a bright idea, put the shutters up and stack the TV on top of a tool box and an ammo box on top the sideboard, with it facing out the window so i can see when i get lock. back out to the dish, bugger i still cant see the tv through the bushes, so i break of branches to create a lane through em, bugger, can't make out whats on the tv, ah,another bright idea get the bino's, ah, at last there i am, dish and pole in 1 hand bino's in the other, watching the tv so i see when i hold the damn dish in the right direction, bollocks where's the TV gone? back into the apartment, bugger its toppled of the ammo can, luckily onto the bed, phfew nuthin broken, back on the stack goes the tv, and i dash back out side, back in the bushes i go, around the corner come's a cop, some one has been neighbourhood watching and has seen me dashing back and forth and has called the cops,now bear in mind its bloody freezin, i'm in my slippers and half naked. I'm spying into the bed room with my bino's, try explaining that.. any way, i did manage to explain it, and even got the cop to twist the dish and pole about, with me in the warm apartment keeping an eye on the signal strength and lock indicator, finaly got a picture with 2 minutes to go,4 hours sleep and back to work, some days things just don't go my way.. right time to see a man about a pig.

New moon Wed Dec 4 08:36:12 2002

First quarter Wed Dec 11 16:49:43 2002

Full moon Thu Dec 19 20:12:19 2002

Last quarter Fri Dec 27 01:32:25 2002

New moon Thu Jan 2 21:25:08 2003

Lito with a S&B you don't need a moon.. ha ha, what you doing, coyote shooting? we got nearly a quarter moon tonight, that'll do for me to see the piggies, going to have the first night in my new tree stand, been -5 c here during the day, better put my longjons on. Pete

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 18:07:07 (ZULU)

Gents,

Just got back from a Military Ball in southern WI. Three days of a foggy stupor and tons of awards for my team. It was a good time for a change. Amazing what 3 kegs can do for a formal event!

Bisley,

'Lito is right...though surly. I have the same problem you have with those rings and bases. You can shim the rear or ditch the whole thing and do it right. I opted for ditching that crap. Loopy makes good scopes, OK QR set-ups, and decent MK4 set-ups--but the standard stuff is problematic at every turn. I solved the elevation problem on my son's Mod 7 with the weaver rail (one piece) base and a set of Burris Zee rings. If deer season wasn't in full swing, the loopies wouldn't have seen a shot fired. Garbage! Now, the reason Lito was short in his response is that he addressed this last week--and you seemed to have ignored his advice. And now you've been whacked by the rolled newspaper.

Lito,

Thanks for the tip on the Zee's--they are alot like the opti-locs from Sako...good stuff. Wouldn't have known to try them without your plug.

Still waiting for the official word...looks like Doha, Qatar. Kinda further in the rear than I wanted. I'll figure out how to move up north or west when the time comes...at least I'm going in the right direction. This desk here is as "rear area" as it gets!

Joe M.

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Monday, December 9, 2002, at 18:14:36 (ZULU)

Gents,

The SAKO .338 is sold. Great deal to a knowledgable gent. Sako Opti-lock rings and mounts, and all the goodies. At least we had one lucky winner.

Chris, so NOW I'm a pussie because I shoot a 6.5 X .284. Actually, I must be an amazon, cuz I shot the .338 Lapua...;-)

All for now gents.

Wes

Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 19:03:35 (ZULU)

I have a Sako Forester in .308. It seems like a very small action to me. Is this sturdy enough to build a heavy barrelled rifle on?

P. M. Hayden <pmhayden@yahoo.com>
- Monday, December 9, 2002, at 19:13:40 (ZULU)

Call me idiot, but what the hell is blueprinting? Do I call it by some other name maybe? The only places I have heard it used is on websites, and I've never heard an explanation as to what blueprinting is or entails..

Compass Lake Engineering, anyone hear of that place?

happy day, the 'r's' are in production...yee haw!!

Pete, you unlucky bastad.. Looks to me like you had one of those ideas that sounded good at the time but....

later

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 19:36:00 (ZULU)

Blueprinting,

ok, yeah I've heard of it, now that I've seen this... here's the explanation

http://www.guntailor.com/html/actionblue.html

what this does for accuracy, I'm not sure... Perhaps crispens (wha?) the receiver up. I'd have to have one ratty action to do this kinda work on it though, he's really takin the piss out of truing a receiver.. oh well. everyone's gotta make a living.

later

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 20:05:16 (ZULU)

JR...

You WOULD be the one to ask?? HA!... Double HA!!

----

*Blueprinting (blu-printing): verb A slang term from the auto racing culture - meaning to make or rebuild to the original dimentions - to the blueprints. The act of returning any piece of machanical equipment to the dimentions originally specified in the design blueprints.

---

OK... there are 'smiths that will "true" your action... meaning they will lap the lugs so both have full or almost full contact... but if this not done carefully (meaning polishing AFTER lapping) the lugs can gall... a very badd thing! Sometimes lapping is needed, most times not. They "may" put the action in a lathe and cut a new face on it... but this is not needed, since that is how the action is faced at the factory in the first place... but they will gladly charge for it. Some will chase, or "re-thread" the barrel threads, but that is also a questionable effort.

Some 'smiths will "true" the action as part of the barrel instalation.

None of these efforts return the action to the original dimentions... in fact thay take the action further away from the orginal dimentions.

Remember that all these efforts remove metal... you cannot fix the alignment of a bolt by removing metal... you must build up the surface by Tig welding, then take it down... which is something that NONE of these guys do. It would make no sense, since the Remington action only costs about $75 to make.

But beware of 'smiths that use the phrase "Blueprinting"! They are blowing smoke in your ear!

If you need an action that is perfect, then buy a perfect action to start with... there are many custom (aka Handmade) actions on the market... all it takes in money!

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter's here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 20:07:24 (ZULU)

Lito,

I cannot find your previous post (on roster or archives). My understanding was that you recommended Burris rings and Leupold QRW bases.

If I am incorrect, please accept my apologies.

SteveA

Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Standing in the corner, with a pointy hat on, - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 20:42:59 (ZULU)

Aye Lito,

Blueprinting is a misnomer... Maybe he's blueprinting to his prints, ha.. When we squared the action face, and lapped the bolt lugs, ground the recoil lug, and so on, we called it 'accurizing'. but this fella likes to take it to the next level (read unnecessary), he's got indicators, 4 jaw chucks, reamers, etc.. He's actually re-boring the receiver!! Like I said, I'd have to have one ratty assed action to go thru all that..

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 21:10:23 (ZULU)

BT...

That's what I recomended... but Leupold QRW bases are "standard weaver cross slot" bases... just very well made and very low.

The Burris "Signaturee 'ZEE' rings" are machined steel, with adjustable taper, and a cross bolt to hold the rings on the bases... they cannot come loose!! In fact, they take longer to remove than the BAdgers and MK4 rings. Nothing about this combo is quick release.

JR...

To take an off the rack action, and spend a ton on money to re-machine it to non-spec dimentions is damn silly. For the cost of a Rem or Win action, then add the labor to create some action that has nothing that is standard is expensive, and dumb.

For those anal types that can't live without perfection, there are many great custom made actions around... for less than a "accurized" Rem will cost... plus then you have something with real re-sale value.

When you pour a fortune into a Rem action, what do you have when you're done... a used $50 action :((

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter's here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 21:17:56 (ZULU)

'lito- How do you really feel about Reminton actions ? What's really WRONG with them? Given your frequent outbursts about whats wrong at Remington it seems odd that you would have ANY of there stuff in your safe. How is that Fireball doing? Don't hold back , just vent , let it all come to the surface. It will be good for you.

Rod

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Monday, December 9, 2002, at 21:56:38 (ZULU)

Lito....

from the Leupold catalogue,

Leupold QRW bases are "quick release weaver cross slot"

Leupold PRW bases are "standard weaver cross slot"

Are PRW the bases you are referring too????

Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Standing in the corner, with a pointy hat on, - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 22:33:46 (ZULU)

Steve A.,

The Burris Zee rings have an "offset insert"--you can use these by rotating them inside the rings to change windage or elevation--depending on where you put the +/- sides in relation to the baseline (vertical axis is neutral--they are eccentric to the rings). A very handy feature for what ails your set-up currently.

Rod,

Lito has chimed in on remmy's poor QC alot around here, but he's been on them for EVERYTHING--not just their actions. FWIW, I'd be glad to pick up whereever Lito leaves off on criticizing Big Green's failures of quality control. I was dumb enough to buy one. But hey, they make great project guns. Too bad the price doesn't reflect this reality.

Hey, how are those Howa actions holding up? Anyone?

Bueller? Bueller?

Joe M.

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Monday, December 9, 2002, at 22:35:40 (ZULU)

Jim, haven't bought the Swede yet, but if you find one like the one on the link could you let me know? I think Sarco's got a nice rifle there, if just a little pricey.

Forwarded for your enjoyment:

A letter from a farmer, now at Camp Pendleton:

Dear Ma and Pa,

Am well. Hope you are. Tell Walt and Elmer the Marine Corps beats working for old man Minch by a mile. Tell them to join up quick before maybe all of the places are filled. I was restless at first because you got to stay in bed till nearly 6 a.m., but am getting so I like to sleep late. Tell Walt and Elmer all you do before breakfast is smooth your cot and shine some things. No hogs to slop, feed to pitch, mash to mix, wood to split, fire to lay. Practically nothing.

Men got to shave but it is not so bad, they get warm water. Breakfast is strong on trimmings like fruit juice, cereal, eggs, bacon, etc., but kind of weak on chops, potatoes, ham, steak, fried eggplant, pie and other regular food. But tell Walt and Elmer you can always sit between two city boys that live on coffee. Their food plus yours holds you till noon, when you get fed again. It's no wonder these city boys can't walk much. We go on "route" marches, which the Platoon Sergeant says are long walks to harden us. If he thinks so, it is not my place to tell him different. A "route march" is about as far as to our mailbox at home. Then the city boys gets some sore feet and we all ride back in trucks. The country is nice, but awful flat.

The Sergeant is like a schoolteacher. He nags some. The Captain is like the school board. Majors and Colonels just ride around and frown. They don't bother you none. This next will kill Walt and Elmer with laughing. I keep getting medals for shooting. I don't know why. The bulls-eye is near as big as a chipmunk and don't move. And it ain't shooting at you, like the Higgett boys at home. All you got to do is lie there all comfortable and hit it. You don't even load your own cartridges. They come in boxes.

Be sure to tell Walt and Elmer to hurry and join before other fellers get into this setup and come stampeding in.

Your loving daughter, Gail

P.S. Speaking of shooting, enclosed is $200 towards a new barn roof and ma's teeth. The city boys shoot craps, but not very good.

Sinister Dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
- Monday, December 9, 2002, at 22:36:25 (ZULU)

Why do you guys torture yourselves by getting "joint" checking accounts? To take this further, why do you guys even tell your wifies what you are buying? You need to go to Boltster's class on sneakiness.

Rule one, get a safe, keep the combo to yourself.

Rule two, rotate the guns around in the safe to make it look different just incase a female peaks inside. Females remember how things are supposed to look, not how many things were in there to begin with.

Rule number three, keep a gun or two at your buds house and make sure that wifie sees how empty the safe is. "Yep hon, had to sell a few to have enough allowance to get the one I really want."

More tips and tactics later, Bolt out!

PS: Politicians and Car Dealerships are just alike, nuff said!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 22:38:50 (ZULU)

Lord, I pray thee, what sin have I commited that you have brought this plague of Leupold mount and base poopie upon my insignificant life?

I promise that I won't peep into the girls showers anymore... well maybe for a week... OK, til tomorrow, that's the best I can do!

Bisley kitten

Go here:

http://www.leupold.com/products/mounts.htm

I don't mean to get pissy but JEEZ Mang! You will notice that the difference you are talking about are in the RINGS (That's R-I-N-G-S).

Lookie at the picture... they only show ONE set of bases for both the QRW and the PRW. Those bases come BY THEMSELVES... you don't buy either set of rings. They explain the difference in the RINGS (that's R-I-N-G-S).

I give up... get what ever you want. Hell, keep the STD rings and bases, I'm sure you will be happy.

rod...

You missed the whole point. Why spend $600 to $700 for an off the rack rifle, then spend another $400 to $500 to have the action "blueprinted", to put back the orginal barrel??? I don't care if it's a Rem, a Winchester, a Howa, or whatever. If someone needs that level of precision, get a custom action... then when you go to sell it, you will get most of your money BACK... if you put that much money into a OTR rifle, and go sell it, you will get $500 for the whole damn thing.

I need a friggin El Breako from this stuff.

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter's here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 23:37:47 (ZULU)

Litto, first something nice. Just saw a new BDC for the MK4 from Leupold. Its marked for 190's 300wm and goes to 1300 yards. You do that? If so the moas built in are good to go. Cant wait for mine to get here this week.

Next not sure what you are talking about as a waste of money getting an action straight. I ahve ahd several done by GA Precisiopn and Norcal Precision and its a great thing to do when you build a weapon. I notice on my trued actions all rounds go in the same hole no matter how hot it becomes. Can you explain what you mean? Not sure I am following you or JR.

Lastly what do you think of the quality of the weaver style bases from Leupold? Are they good enough to mount a MK4 M3? and MK4 rings?

Grasshopper, never used the Mad Dog knives so cant speak. You come on by and we will beat the knives up and see.

Undude

MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Monday, December 9, 2002, at 23:46:02 (ZULU)

Okay, Okay!

I can now see that you are right and I'm wrong (thats W-R-O-N-G).

I've screwed up again (thats A-G-A-I-N).

Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
I'm going back to my village, its missing this particular idiot, - Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 00:12:42 (ZULU)

"Rule two, rotate the guns...". Bolt, allow me to make a change that works for me. Rule two, rotate the wives. Console yourself with the fact that as long as you have more guns than ex's, you're not a slut.

Don K.

Don K. <ussr@clarityconnect.com>
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 00:50:20 (ZULU)

Bolt - Your advice is excellent. My problem is the wife does the same thing with her closet, kids closet( 3 girls) and bed linens, dishes, and furniture. I really come out on the losing side. At least with full disclosure she only spend $3 to my $1. Far better than the 10 to 1 it used to be.

GROUP DRAG BAG PURCHASE : looking at putting together a group Drag bag purchase of the big bags from either Eagle or Blackhawk or London bridge. Don't have prices yet, but wanted to get a list together so I could talk to some folks at where ever we chose. Let me know on mfg and color via Email like George handled the SC rifle project. I vote for tan to go with the SC rifle camo.

Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 00:59:19 (ZULU)

Mr. T-I-Dubba-Guh-Errrrr,

That's Tigger...as in pooh bear. And that vilage idiot thing was funny! Now before you came back as a large feline--did you used to make pistols in a former life? Har-har.

Loopy two-parters is askin' for alignment problems. Well-made one piece bases are worth the investment. I use MK4 rings on a badger base--but only because Marty can't make rings fast enough for my "buy it now" mentality (or stupidity). High demand means something, now don't it? Ever see loopy standards on back order? Hmmm. BTW-I forgot, what are you mounting all this on? A winnie? The two piece MK4s are winnie and the one piece loopy is remmy--or am I catalog challenged too?

Boltster,

add a rule: Never let yer wife see a badger (premier) invoice. My base/rings cost more than her tikka...and she dudn't like that one bit...I had to appease her with our second stealth!!!! Heheh. I win. Would you believe that Tikka whitetail .270 NIB came even up in a trade for a very, very used Rossi 357? Dude wanted that POS baaaaaaad. Who wuz I to argue? I still laugh when I see retail price lists...

For those who asked: Blake did not get his deer. His only shot was at a mover, and he just yanked that trigger sideways. Doe-fever. He got the Maple though. And twenty-five push-ups for Fuhhh-gettin' everything he was taught. Well this was his first year with a center fire, so we'll just fall back on "practice, practice, practice" for a while.

One last dumb question: Will the short action Model 7 fit a SA 700 stock?

And where can I find metal bottoms to git rid of that plastic? Maybe I should call George and go whole hawg...boy deserves a decent stick for puttin' up with his dad...

Joe M.

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 01:18:58 (ZULU)

'lito-- Clearly you are right,I did completely miss the point of your previous post(December 9, 2002,21:17:56 ZULU). But since you raised the issue, in that post you did not mention complete rifles- you specifically said "actions". You certainly did not say anything about putting the original barrel back on it once all the work was done. Now THAT WOULD BE DUMB. Please help me out by telling me where I can buy a "custom" action for less than it costs to "accurize" or "blueprint" a Rem or Win or whatever action.

Perhaps, just perhaps,there has been a time or two that you have been "damn silly" or "dumb" and spent some money on having an OTR ACTION fixed to make it shoot better. In your post ( referenced above) the issue of resale value was an after thought. And buy the way how often do the people here make an expenditure for a product or service (i.e.;action work) where resale value trumps how the rig SHOOTS. I have to think that the question of "how much can I sell it for" rarely , if ever, comes into play. In addition ,what about all the aftermarket stuff that is readily available (and CHEAP) for that lowly OTR action. Does Marty make bases for Brand X custom action? What about a stock for this beast? If the custom action costs less and is better than fixing a Rem or Win why don't George or Jerry or any of the other top tactical smiths prefer them. Why are the vast majority of 1000 yard benchresters using OTR actions that have been worked over.

Perhaps you do need a friggin El Breako from this stuff.

Rod

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 01:35:46 (ZULU)

Mike Miller...

>"Lito, first something nice. Just saw a new BDC for the MK4 from Leupold. Its marked for 190's 300wm and goes to 1300 yards. You do that? If so the moas built in are good to go. Can't wait for mine to get here this week."<

Yeah... I do that. It took me 3 years of beating up on them (Garth in particular)... and for them to make my changes, but it was worth it... the new cams play like they're guided missles ;)))

I have a M3-LR on the .308 M24, and a MK4-M3 on the .300WM M24, and with either, if I see it, it faw down, go boom!

As to trued actions... lookie. If a good smith takes a good OTR action and builds a good rifle, it will shoot very well. If the action is poorly made, then it MAY benefit from cleaning up, but likely it will shoot the same either way.

I doubt anyone has done a blind study on it, but if you take a good clean M70 or M700 action, and barrel it with a premium Schneider or Pak-Nor... shoot it, then take it apart, and clean up the action, put it together again and shoot it, I doubt that there would be any significant improvement, and it could go worse.

Much of this VooDoo comes from the Benchrest crowd, and you know how anal they can be.

As a craftsman I would prefer to work on a "Clean" action... for my own sticks, I first cut the ejector spring to 0.95" on all Rems and Win pushfeeds... then I polish the bolt face to a mirror finish (the fired primers look like little mirrors with a dimple in the middle).

I polish the bolt ways if they are rough, and do a list of other clean ups. All of this makes the riffle more pleasent to own and shoot, but does nothing to improve accuracy

An action that is so off that it really needs to have the bolt redone, or the barrel threads chased or recut... is so off that I wouldn't want to put more money into it. Just sell it and find another action. I'm sure that some will disagree, but I have many rifles (both Rems and Wins) that will shoot under .20" consistantly, and their actions are box stock.

As to the weaver style bases from Lupita... I like the QRW for setting up 1" scopes with the Burris "Signature ZEE" rings. On tac riffles, for the MK4-M3's I prefer the MK4 one piece base, cuz it's much lower than the Badger, and it has no taper (the MK4-M3 needs a flat base). For the M3-LR's I prefer the Badger bases.

rod...

>"You certainly did not say anything about putting the original barrel back on it once all the work was done."<

That's because I was responding to a comment about having a Rem "Bluprinted" to correct an elevation problem... there was no talk of getting a new barrel and doing a total rebuild.

If I had an action that was so bad that it needed more that a polishing of the rails and minor cleaning up of little stuff, I would NEVER put money into it to get it re-threaded... that's like putting warped heads on a racing Porsche engine... if you have to do a total re-machining to get it right, it's the wrong action to start with.

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Winter's here, the creek has friz... I can't figger out where dem kitties is :((, - Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 01:49:08 (ZULU)

Undude,

Now I've got 5 o' your slings.

To all,

If your still using some other sling than a Tactical Intervention Sling... Well, to put it nicely, "You're WRONG!"

I spent a lotta years w/ Uncle Sam's Mis-guided Children using the issue sling for rifle qual. This Undude rig is the cat's ass. I've been using my first one for 2 years now. Still tighter'n a weddin' night pri#*. Not to mention FAST.

The preceding was an unashamed, unbiased, objective plug for a good friend's product. ;o)

Semper-Fi.

Spud.

Dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
Merced, Kalisocialistfornia, USA - Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 02:01:59 (ZULU)

Here is a link on the lack of commitment to the offense in OEF:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20021209-15741127.htm

Since two of the principals in this thing have crossed my path over the years, I am inclined to take this at face value.

Grrrrrrrrrr.

Thought for the day: If you want to run for office--then take off the uniform and do it!

Disclaimer: Thoughts for the day and links to the times are in no way meant to imply that anyone in particular is a farkin' political ass...that would be improper.

Joe M.

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 02:04:08 (ZULU)

Wes,

I wasn't trying to assign my pussified shooting preference to anyone else ;)) I wouldn't have a custom 300WM or a 338 Lapua built,,, cause I'm a recoil pussy. The fact that you shot that Sako without a break releases you from "recoil pussy" status. I'd have just stood there and watched,, thinkng of how it would feel if my color bone actually touched the inside of my shoulder blade.

Custom actions for the cost of a Remington/Winch + truing? Stolle Panda, $900, RPA Quadlite, $650, Nesika Bay (entry action) $1000. None of these have triggers,, but they are all perfect from the factory. You'll need to consider a custom inlet on your McMillan though,,, as none of these workie with a Rem/Win/Sav/Rug inlet except the quadlite and it needs to be pushed forward and the lug recess needs to be modified. Alex Sitman can do you up a stock that made exactly for you, from LOP to the distance of the trigger from the pistol grip, etc,,, But it'll cost ya $800.

Bench resters may use rems/win's etc... but the top prone shooters are using the above mensioned actions, plus CG's, AI's, Paramounts, swifts, Gilkes Ross, etc... The 40X's are the bottom of the line actions for the serious prone competitors. The guys like me,, who really just go to play and have fun, shoot rem's and winch's... the big boys bring toys that cost more than my truck, and they win. Course,, they'd beat me with a factory Savage,, so take that w/a gr of Varget. (salt is bad for my BP)

JR,,

You're in the land of RPA and AI's. Pick a couple up and see what you can make with them. ;))

FatBoy...

Been away for a week with no laptop so............

Camp McCoy Shoot -

What, where, when, who, why?

Peeing In A Wetsuit -

Nope. Won't even go there.

Atlanta, Georgia -

My son and his momma are most likely going to move there to open up his new business. Because of my background, they've asked me to help out with the financial stuff once a month, for a nice fee, of course! If I like what I see there, I might seriously consider moving out of Chad Land.

Do any of youse Ha