November 19, 1999 - November 27, 1999
I'm hurt that nobody has picked up the gauntlet on my FAL postal match challenge. Biggest group wins.
This was sent to me by my chum the Panama Canal pilot. Don't know where he got it. Copied and pasted for your enjoyment:
"I guess it is not surprising that military heroic reputation is
largely a function of publicity. Everybody knows who Alvin York was because
Theodore Roosevelt wrote him up in fine style. Very few know of Sam Woodfill,
who pulled off a very similar individual feat within a week of York's act,
and also received the Medal of Honor. Likewise, everybody knows of Carlos
Hathcock's achievements as a sniper in Vietnam, but very few know of Charles
Mawhinney, who was also a sniper in Vietnam and ran up a slightly higher
score than Hathcock (103 to 93). Hathcock had a book written about him,
but Mawhinney did not. It is wrong to be competitive in these matters.
Both of
these Marines did splendid jobs, and the one does not rate precedence
over the other. It is just to point out that you are a hero only if people
say you are. If you do not get the notices, you do not lead the parade.
An interesting sidelight on Mawhinney has to do with remounting his
sight. When he took some leave, he left explicit instructions that no one
was to mess with the zero on his rifle. When he went back to duty, he discovered
his instructions had been disregarded and proceeded to miss on his first
two shots. Moral: "When you get a good zero, leave it alone." I thought
everybody knew that, but obviously I was wrong."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Slightly off-topic question. I don't want to start something that
takes up a lot of Roster space that as we all know sometimes goes to subjects
that aren't very related, BUT.... I can't think of a better group to ask,
and I have a chum who is trying to become the George Bull of spudguns.
What rate of twist would you use in a spudgun barrel? No joke. If anyone
has a science or experience-based suggestion, please Email it to me so
that I am not barred from the Roster for asking! Thanks.
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
XX, MI, USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 00:42:10 (ZULU) (your host
address: 207.89.136.147)
Militia, militia, militia... See Scott, no harm. Kind of like the term SNIPER huh. Its the liberals that give negative meanings to legit terms.
Militia or Terrorist
Sniper or Assasin
Soldier or Mercenary
President or Pervert
Ah what the hell...
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 15:39:25 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.17.143)
PaulS <kpszopa@aol.com>
Columbia, MO, USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 03:22:59 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.198.32)
That's from Cooper's Commentaries. Lot's of stuff finds it's way here from there. Love him or hate him, he's fun to read. See for yourself at...
http://www.nps.gov/spar/m1gunb.html">http://www.cybersurf.co.uk/JeffCooper/
...hope I did that right.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 03:51:21 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.156)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 03:56:19 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.156)
Tom
Tom <tscott@dominionsc.com>
here, & there, USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 04:03:08 (ZULU)
(your host address: 204.111.50.33)
Removing the burrs don't change a thing. Between the time that dope meant acting, well uh not to smart and todays how to set up to hit what you aim at. Grams was used by us freaks in the USA. But since I found some compadres I will convert to grains.
Winchester: 154.6 to 158.2grains =3.6spread
Remington: 167.9 to 171.9grains =4.0spread
Lapau: 172.2 to 174.2grains =2.0spread
Federal GM: 173.5 to 176.1grains =2.5spread
Now you tell me which should I buy. It may not seem like alot but the top two on the list were on the bottom when it comes to visual inspect. I'm buying Lapau from now on.
Tom
tom <tscott@dominionsc.com>
here, & there, USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 04:12:08 (ZULU)
(your host address: 204.111.50.33)
Contact <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM> and ask him about his adapter that turns a camera tripod into a neat rifle rest. He gave me a sample at Hathcock II and it works great! Waiting for my friend on the ABQ PD to get back so's he can evaluate it also.
Sorry it took so long to comment on this fine piece of gear, Pete. Only got back to NM a few weeks ago and it took this long to get to the range.
I'm interested in the FAL Postal Match, if we can shoot for smallest 10 shot groups! Send rules to my e-mail. I'll pass them on to Jarrett and other interested parties!
Best Regards....
Bruce Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 06:35:17 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.30.122.94)
Link didn't work....contact "PNGREIFF@AOL.COM" for info on the tripod
adapter.
Bruce Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 06:42:14 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.30.122.94)
"Removing the burrs don't change a thing.."
I never said removing the burrs changed anything... it's just one of those things compulsive benchrest (and very skinny) shooters do, because it makes them feel better... :))
... and buy whatever brass you want... that's not my decission.
Pablito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 13:31:46 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.139)
If you have them all (brass), load the same powder charge, primer, projectile, and OAL and see which gives the lowest velocity spreads, sD, ES [etc. etc.] and MOST CONSISTANT shot groupings.
You have then found your winner!
'Lito,
Oh Behave!
Bruce,
Thanks for the kind words, I glad it worked for you.
Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 15:10:31 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.201.209)
Upon seeing the anti-gun info posted, I came across the book, "50
Things You Can Do To Get Rid Of Guns" by Murray, I think it was. He raises
a lot of salient points, but I hardly agree with his overall scheme. Interesting
to browse over how the thinking is on that side.
Look for it at the library. Please don't buy this book. Especially
entertaining is the "Buy Back" chapter. Covers everything but the money.
Am I the only one to find it interesting that the folks who typically
give the 1st amendment such a liberal interpretation, and bring us things
like "pissChrist" and Ice T's "Copkiller", are usually the same ones howling
about a liberal interp. of the 2nd?
Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
Portkand, Or., USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 20:51:45 (ZULU) (your
host address: 192.220.131.85)
1) Does anyone have a good source for some military TM's and FM's that are harder to find?
2) How do you qualify to buy ammo from the CMP?
Thanks,
B. Melick
tmelick@yahoo.com
B. Melick <tmelick@yahoo.com>
Dallas, TX, USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 21:37:31 (ZULU) (your
host address: 146.163.186.223)
I my self carry a shotgun along with my M700. The only drawback is
the xtra weight of ammo and the bulk of an xtra thing hanging off of you.
My .308 weighs in at a stiff 15lbs. The M-590 is a mere 5lbs but that gets
off set by the 100 rounds of buck shot and slugs I carry with it. I generally
only carry 100rns of .308 (7.62NATO) for the main tube anyway. I only weigh
in at 140 so you can see where weight is a major factor for me. As far
as trackers go, I will set up fake wires and trips to slow them down and
hide the real stuff so they REALLY slow down when they set one off (simulators
for those who might misunderstand). I will also "J" turn and wait for them
to stick their head out, that works.
Wheel gun, I've had miss fires before and Murphy likes to fu-- with
you when you least ecpect it. The .44 Mag goes through trees better than
a smaller round does too. When I do carry an auto I like my Glock 19 or
Glock 29 10mm. I have 48 weapons to choose from, so the only delema is
what to take. My collection is highly specialized, for every possible scenario
that I can think of. If I had a class 3 license, things would be very interesting
indeed. I would carry a Berreta 93 for fun.
I am trying to develop counter tracking techniques, but I have few
of like mind willing to "play" in the dirt. One thing though, I LOVE GUNS
and no one I mean no one can have enough. Its like puss- can't get enough!
If any of you ever been to the Phillipines you know what I mean!
Semper Fi!
Bad Karma
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.co,>
USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 21:55:40 (ZULU) (your host address:
165.196.191.35)
Scott Hannah <hannah@slip.net>
Los Gatos, Stalinfornia, USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 22:33:16
(ZULU) (your host address: 198.22.121.112)
citizensofamerica.org
James <jbarrier@juno.com>
WA, USA - Friday, November 19, 1999 at 22:37:51 (ZULU) (your host address:
206.82.215.2)
That was me. I use a standard 6" mill vice, pad the stock by lining the jaws with a layer or two of making tape. If the stock has alot of drop at the butt, put the vise on the end of the bed so the butt can hand off the side. It doesnt take much pressure to hold the stock securely, there is little cutting force when you cut fiberglass. clamp the stock right around the action. I use a 4 flute endmill, spin it fast, second from the highest setting on an Old Bridgport, about 80% on a new one with a vari-speed. Probaly somewhere around 1500 RPM. Use a shop vac to suck up the fiberglass, dont use an air hose to blow it out, 'glass iches bad, trust me, I work in a boat shop. I use my eyeballs and a machinist level to level it out. Anything else, email me direct.
Mike
mike S <mws@ecom.net>
kommi, Fornia, USA - Saturday, November 20, 1999 at 02:18:14 (ZULU)
(your host address: 207.138.195.189)
Looking for suggestions on Binoculars for my drag bag and general use. Need to be waterproof and durable, I don't baby equiptment. Right now looking along the lines of Steiner 8x30G. Long eye relief is necessary as I wear glasses. Would like to keep it under $400. Thanks.
Mike
mike S <mws@ecom.net>
theres go more of my rights,, Kalifornia, USA - Saturday, November
20, 1999 at 02:26:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.138.195.189)
I, too, read the drivel on the Goodbyeguns site. Then I sent the email giving my, honestly, rational opinion on the issue.
As for the organized response, count me it, too!!!
Semper Fi!
Roger E. Lays <rlays@aol.com>
Callery, PA, USA - Saturday, November 20, 1999 at 03:07:08 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.200.56)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, November 20, 1999 at 03:34:39 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.89)
Best rust preventitive spray for exterior surfaces?
Now that we've had the debate on AR and AK stuff, I would like to know the following:
What are the most common causes of jambs in either weapon and how do you avoid them?
How do you clear a hot round and how do you know if the round is hot without pulling the bolt back and exposing the primer. This sounds a right much dangerous.
Does anyone sell a good quality spare parts kit for the AR and AK?
On long range for a change.......
How do you change camo on your rifles for each season without building up thick layers of paint?
How do you change ghillie camo for each season, from greens to browns? Do you build two suits?
How do you camo your brass?
Compensation for and shooting through sleet?
Does anyone take the time to plan for shots over 1000 yards or has this just become the standard for the max of the 308 round?
My eyesight for dusk and dark is getting worse and I may have to
start wearing specs all the time. How do you camo your face with specs
on?
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, November 20, 1999 at 03:52:30 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.138.43.44)
Its tough to mobilize even people who have a vested interest in defending their 2nd Amendment Rights. Check the archives. I tried a little of it here earlier. The response I got was a pop and no kick. Those who did respond did an admirable job but as far as general interest and support go, I'd give it an F.
Just for fun, I'll say it again: Go ask someone today, "How would you like to join the NRA for free for 1 year?" Go ahead and pay for their membership. It may be the best $25 you spend this year. You guys don't think twice about plopping down 2 or 3 thousand bucks for a SWS. Some of us will contend that those lazy bastards should fund their own memberships but the fact is, they won't. Its easier not to. Sound familiar? Every time I turn on the news I cringe, waiting to see who shot up another office or school, leaving "our culture" to take the credit. When you lead these potential members by the hand they will be exposed to the NRA message each month for a year through a professional format. Now, you won't feel like you have to preach to them every time you see them and they won't think, "Here comes that whining gun nut again." Some may renew on their own, others may fall over and kick their legs in the air. Don't have a conniption fit. When this happens, your mission is clear: Go get a new member to replace the one we lost. This is your fight. Don't expect someone to do it for you. The NRA is the strongest political lobby force we have going for us presently. If they pissed you off previously, be a man and put it aside. Go ask someone today, "How would you like to join the NRA for free for 1 year?"
Mike is right about not drafting people into the military / police forces. Even the ones who want to be there aren't always the cream of the crop. Being forced into service wouldn't tend to bring out the best of a person's intentions. Let's stick with our current method but just make service life / opportunity good enough that people would kill to get in. What's your freedom worth?
Is there any future for the Christiansen-style carbon-wrapped lightweight
rifle barrels for our military sniper weapons? Maybe they wouldn't stand
up to rough use.
Paul J. Headlee <pheadlee@networksplus.net>
Ogden, KS, USA - Saturday, November 20, 1999 at 11:38:01 (ZULU) (your
host address: 199.240.135.175)
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, November 20, 1999 at 15:09:18 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)
Dog or tracker? With human pursuers any one human's senses are redundant. If there's many of them, they can lose a couple and still be effective. If they lose the dog they lose abilities that are irreplacable in the field.
When you shoot a guy's dog, you piss him off.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, November 20, 1999 at 15:43:41 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.10)
Bolt: Man, do you own an AR? If so, why don't you simply check with your rifle's manufacturer first? I'm sure they'd have what you are looking for. I've personnally had good luck with Bushmaster products. They have just about anything you'd ever want for an AR.
Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Saturday, November 20, 1999 at 18:18:49 (ZULU)
(your host address: 24.222.7.4)
What about those thermo-anemometers? Only one of you uses them? Surely not.
Thanks again guys.
Bruce E. <bgenlvtex@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Saturday, November 20, 1999 at 18:55:32 (ZULU) (your host
address: 205.188.198.29)
Also, we at TRGT are working on getting our customer service up to where we want it. It's tough when everyone has another career to keep a small side buisness going to. Just ask the guys that run this site. We should have it fixed in a month or so. Thanks for your support.
Out here.
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, November 20, 1999 at 20:32:31 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.17.163)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Sunday, November 21, 1999 at 05:29:00 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.143)
Don: A light misting of spray paint on the ARD should not be a problem. The key is to not let paint run down inside the honey-combs and further reducing light transmission. For these reasons my suggestion is to dry it paint side down (hell, paint it upside-down if you make a jig for it).
By the way, has anyone heard from Dean M. lately? Seems like I haven't seen a post from him in a long while.
Enjoy the weekend all.
[OUT]
Colin <thermoptic@hotmail.com>
Socalist Republik of, Kalifornia, USA - Sunday, November 21, 1999
at 05:51:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.59.12.103)
Bolt,
Real interesting article in the November issue of Precision Shooting. It pertains to the effect of rain, etc., on a projectile in flight. It might help 'clear' up your question on shooting in sleet.
Good luck!
Semper Fi!
Roger Lays <rlays@aol.com>
Callery, PA, USA - Sunday, November 21, 1999 at 12:42:47 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.193.158)
Hello Sniper Country! I have been gone for some time due to work and
other related items. I now have SIX Grandkids! I wanted to stop by and
wish all of you a very happy Thanksgiving and all the best in the days
to come. I hope all is well with everyone. I miss all of you, especially
that old Thorsten guy from Germany! Keep the Jell-o in the hot tub young
man. Keep your powder dry and for God's sake, CHECK SIX!
Out here,
Gramps
Gramps <mojoed@cherco.net>
Upstate, SC, USA - Sunday, November 21, 1999 at 16:02:00 (ZULU)
(your host address: 209.198.37.105)
On the AR... I once heard that the first issued ammunition for the
M16A1 contained Calcium Carbonate, added becuase some genius thought it
would stabilize the degredation of nitric acid-based smokeless powders
in the hot jungle environment, the idea being that the base would neutralize
the acid. The problem being, every time the weapon was fired, it coated
the internals with calcium carbonate, which didn't burn too readily. So
a weapon would quickly become unuseable due to "lime-buildup". Maybe some
one with more historical knowledge than I can either confirm or deny this...
S. Strapac <strapac@mindspring.com>
Bay Area, CA, USA - Sunday, November 21, 1999 at 16:23:15 (ZULU)
(your host address: 199.174.203.250)
Just wanted to add to the "political" discussion on guns...
No matter who you are, civy, LE, or military, your personal use of weapons are at stake. For those professionals, your type of weapon and the use of it are at risk as well.
If this forum and all others like it don't step forward and raise the level of attention to this matter to much greater hights, then all use of guns, private or professional, will be curtailed greatly.
When people talk of the anti-gun crowd, the topic always seems to be greeted with the "not in my sandbox" mentality. People are afraid to be labled as "gun nuts", or something to that effect.
Good for Gooch to say "militia, militia, militia!".
Stand up for what you beleive, you cowards! How dare you say that you are professional weapons operators willing to do what is neccessary to defend this country, but then back down from a bunch of liberal bullies because you are afraid of a bunch of name calling! The effect the liberals want is already on a dast roll. What more harm can discussing the issue cause?
Talk about this subject openly. This may be a forum for perofessional operators, but this anti-gun subject encompasses professionals as well.
No one needs wacko militants on this or any other site, as we all agree they do no good, but to totally not want to discuss this issue means we are all doomed to the ideas of these bullies.
"...defend this nation from all enemies, foreign and domestic." So, when are you going to start doing that?
Hank <rhenry@rhythms.net>
USA - Sunday, November 21, 1999 at 16:23:48 (ZULU) (your host address:
38.12.168.23)
Sorry dudes the web site I mentioned is www.guntruths.com
Saw a PRO-GUN story on New York Channel 2 (CBS) last night on the 10 O'clock news. The reporter was busting on the NYPD for approving handgun permits for the rich and famous but turning them down for normal joes. The official responce was that they were trying to keep the number of guns down. Geee, I thought the purpose of licenses was to ensure people that needed guns were trained, law abiding etc not to limit numbers.
Anybody been catching the NRA spot on Americas Voice Network? I get it on Dish Network. SHows the results of Australia, England and Canada's latest gun control efforts. Makes you think.
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Sunday, November 21, 1999 at 16:36:02 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.17.145)
It was Potassium Carbonate, and it was added to suppress flash.
It would build up in the gun, and because of the high humidity,
would become caked, and would not "blow out" of the gun.
Some thoughts on mandatory service, or draft...
The biggest reason for the draft, is to make sure people from all
(or at least "most") classes have understanding of the military.
As it stands now, more and more of the politicians have no understanding
of the needs of the military services…
Many of the current politicians are urban yuppies that went to ivy
league schools, and because Russia has collapsed, they see no need for
more than a token military force.
Because of the "class" system of the volunteer military, and the
public image of the services, left over from Viet Nam, and currently perpetuated
by the media, few in the political system can speak to the needs of the
military any more.
These people that have never had exposure to firearms, never had
to defend them selves, or their country, and have never studied the Constitution,
and Federalist Papers, can't see any need for the public to own firearms.
Gooch...
Totally disagree with your comment about citizens militias being
dangerous.
The Federalist Papers, and essays written about the Constitution,
by the framers and writers at the time, clearly make the case that their
idea of a militia was "armed rabble", and not government formed or led
groups.
The purpose of the militia was not to repel the foreign invaders or the Russians, it was to overthrow our own government, if it got out of control, and declared itself a dictatorship.
If your militia is run by - controlled by - or otherwise sponsored
by the government, it looses it's main purpose.
Castro promised elections the year after he took over, then went
house to house, and dis-armed his "militia".... and that was 40 years ago.
Throughout Europe, in the 30's and 40's, nation after nation fell,
because their "militias" were on paper, and their firearms were listed
in town hall... (Kalifornia - New York... does this sound a familiar bell?).
In order to have the type of militia that could fill the purpose that the framers intended... they must be independent of the government, and unregistered.
Consider the film, "Red Dawn"... lousy film, improbable scenario,
but right on, when it comes to who will be there if it really goes bad...
... or if some president likes the job SOooo much, he just can't
give it up.
He's declaring a state of emergency, and suspension of the Constitution
"... for the good of the country"
Roosevelt suspended the Constitution during WW-1, so it ain't impossible, and that is exactly how Hitler got into power... he suspended the German constitution, collected all the guns (which were registered to prevent crime), gave then to his "friends" and the rest is history.
During WW-2, it was the "armed rabble" (also known as 'Partisans' or 'The Underground') that wore out Hitler's troops... The might of Russia couldn't beat the "armed rabble" in Afghanistan... and it was the "armed rabble" in Viet Nam, not the NVA, that ran us out of 'Nam (with the help of the same Democrats that sent us there).
So don't sign me up for the "Oh-fish-ul" militia...
...if it goes really bad, I'll do just fine with the help of my
"Armed Rabble" friends, thank you!
Pablito
Pablito <condor@mag.net>
USA - Sunday, November 21, 1999 at 17:34:22 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.118)
Hey Guys, Sorry, the name of the book I referred to is "50 Things You
Can Do About Guns." Sorry if any confusion.
Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
PDX, Or., USA - Sunday, November 21, 1999 at 23:02:19 (ZULU) (your
host address: 192.220.131.78)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Monday, November 22, 1999 at 01:39:34 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.107)
Main problem with most militias now is simply the people who are in them. The ones I am aware of around here are filled with morons that couldn't find their way out of a trailer with a twister coming.
I say we start one from the duty roster...get MikeM to liberate a couple hundred badges...we will be on our way:)
Old Dog
Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 04:11:43 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.16.162.10)
If you're gonna' be "armed rabble" you gotta' get it right!...
it goes -
"Baadgees? What Baadgees? We don' need no steeenkin' baadgees!
El Pablito, De los banditos grandes!
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
From somewhere in the Sierra Madre mountains..., Tijuana, Mexico -
Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 06:16:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.139)
I think, in part, the reason the only militias we hear about, are
the the ones that are a bit "flakey" is because of the nature of the media...
... it makes a good 5 minutes on the CBS 6:00 news, if some group
of neo-Nazis in the Missouri Breaks country, is stock piling MRE's... to
the TV news, it's a "Militia Group"... in fact, to the media, everyone
woth w 4WD, a gun, or who goes camping, is part of some hidden militia
group... it's another thing for the public and the Yuppies to "Worry about".
The armed Koreans in East L.A., during the Rodney King thing, did
just what they were supposed to, protecting their (and others) property,
until the government told them to go home (and everyone lost everything!!)
If there was a really large militia in Kalif, there wouldn't have
been $4,000,000,000 in damage, and 60+ dead... Ol' Rodney would have simply
appealed the decission, and life would have gone on.
The sane militias outnumber the flakey ones, probably 10 to 1 (not an area of expertese for me)... but you'll never hear about them, even when they do something outstanding, like find some lost child in the desert.
CBS has had a standing policy for over 25 years, to never show anything positive relating to private ownership of firearms... you won't even see the Olympic shooting events covered.
Pablito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 06:42:09 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.139)
As to "rabble", that was the way it was written. When I was talking to Jeff Cooper about this, he basically said that the idea was sound, but didn't want to be associated with some of the completely unprofessional attitudes of SOME of the people. That was the big goal of the Michigan militia not that long ago, to get rid of loonies. I think I remember seeing something in that FBI report Master Gooch turned us to reporting this as truth. Now as to being part of the rabble, guess now I am. Would I tell a loonie I didn't want him in the field with me? You bet. I did some that I had no control over, might as well. That's the whole answer here. SELF maintaining, SELF regulating, SELF sufficient and SELF reliant militias, simply because teamwork means success, and a wacko backing you up means you get "friendly" fire or worse.
For those who question what the JFK center for political warfare said years ago (if only 10% of a population is willing to take action, they can effectively decimate a standing government) remember the liberator 45 pistol and it's effective use by partisans.
Need I say anything about registration? Guess I have to. It's illegal.
You can't make anyone pay anything to exercise a right. Do you have to
pay a voters registration fee? Pretend it's anti-nike. Just Don't Do It.
That's what the supreme court ruled on - see Jim Crow laws (although I'm
not a lawyer, or play one on TV).
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, Freedom for all - USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999
at 08:11:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.165)
Gun Shows
Being out of the gun show loop for a few years really gave me a
few surprises this weekend.
Went to what was a large gun show in Illinois. I was amazed by the
small amount of firearms and ammunition for sale. The ATF has certainly
reduced the number of dealers over the last five years.
Lots of crafts, Beenie Babies and knives.
Post George Bush Sr. / pre- Brady AK’s are back up to Brady Bill
prices.
AR magazines were much fewer in number and three times the prices
I recall a few years ago- and most were in well used condition.
Steel aftermarket AR mags being the exception.
One dealer was asking ten dollars each for RUSTY- and I don’t mean
a spot of rust here and there-
30 round AK magazines.
On top of that, the show is under attack by the local government
bureaucrats as “ unwholesome” and
in danger of being banned.
Thinking back about the call for banning gun shows - gun show customers
over the years were mostly white.
Many black and Hispanic customers now have more disposible income
and are more frequently seen at gun shows.
Oddly enough, the calls for banning shows started a couple of years
after more minorities started to participate in significant numbers.
I seem to be the only one commenting about this curious occurrence.
Please don’t misunderstand.
To paraphrase a recent speech by the Reverend Jesse Jackson - I’m
not saying the gun show bans are racially motivated.
Too many bureaucrats dislike the idea of citizens owning firearms.
Harder to coerce the constituents.
Appealing to self- interest, cajoling, and sometimes reason - must
be used rather than force.
Very time consuming and inconvenient.
Organizing Gun Owners
The best I can say at this point is this-
Organizing gun owners is like herding cats.
Most gun owners won’t tear themselves away from their TV sets and
food unless they feel immediately endangered.
Then again, no different than other Americans.
Personal debt is up due to too many people using credit cards to
buy WAY over their heads.
Contributions will be hard to get due to personal debt, self-interest
and fragmented lobbying efforts.
The gun lobby organizations are too busy bickering about who should
be in the spotlight as leader.
Ego and selfishness will kill us as surely as bullets.
The gun lobby groups are not able to tax members for political contributions
- unlike traditional methods used by some powerful lobbying groups.
What groups succeed and why?
The AARP for one
How did the AARP achieve success?
The AARP Scares the Hades out of it’s members via propaganda.
The “ seasoned citizens “ take the time to vote per AARP directions
- EVERY TIME.
The AARP demonstrates that the group is organized.
The politicians know it.
Maybe check with some marketing specialists, how do they sell their
products?
Want to succeed ?
Note the success of other organizations and emulate their methods.
Start small, one local election at a time.
Be prepared for a long hard fight.
One good thing about the World Wide Web... we can use it for an end
run around the big bucks media.
The politicians KNOW IT.
The politicians want to control the internet because of this factor.
The more people go on line, the better our chances.
Politics, gotta love it.
Had my say....
Six more Illinois Secretary of State Drivers License Bureau employees arrested last week in the ever widening driver licenses for sale scandal. Da Gov. not yet implicated in the corruption of his former department. Stay tuned....
Utgardaloki
Somewhere in the land of Ryan.
Utgardaloki <Utgardaloki@law.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 10:35:48 (ZULU) (your host address:
157.178.1.101)
I'm not sure I want to start a M1 Carbine thread... and I've not read the book you mentioned... but I've fired a truck load of ammo through M1 Carbines, many with 3 speed transmissions, and I've yet to have one fail or jam... not one round!
And Mr Pat...
No seree... I'm with 'Yote bate. I won't take that bet, even with long odds...
Pablito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 11:06:21 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.60)
To those who think the carbine round is a pip-squeak:
Try again. At the distances the carbine would be used, it outclasses
the 5.56 and is more compact than even the XM177 if you have the para stock
on it! Sure, it'll keep 1 MOA to 800 yards all day, or at least until you
wake up that is. But at ranges where most "rifle fights" occur (less than
200 yds) it's a minute of target carbine. My stock is one of the old choate
side folders, which I would trade off if I found something better. For
a perimeter rifle, you can't beat it. I carried one for years (legally)
in Texas before the CCW law.
Same goes for the 9. Yeah right, they're crap, I know. Waste of
weight and space. That's why the SEALS carry the MP5's. That's why they
make those XM177 types in 9. Whatever.
Looks like you started a thread anyway :-) with a little help.
Utgardaloki: will find your referenced book. Always looking for good
stuff.
I wrote my congressman and senators last week (for the month), did
you?
Don't forgot the governor like I did though :-(
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 12:36:47 (ZULU)
(your host address: 12.9.223.165)
joe gonzalez <beloogey@aol.com>
silver spring, md, USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 12:39:17 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.198.39)
We shot cases of GI ball, and RED tip tracer... (got it free)... life is really fine when you have a few cases of red tip tracer, and a 3 speed carbine :))
We also used a load with a soft point bullet that has the same contour as ball with H-110... not the speer HP... (it didn't work for me either)
Now that there are reproduction military air-drop folding stocks for the carbine, it really folds up small.
"Looks like you started a thread anyway :-) with a little help."
Did not, did not... you did it! :)
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 13:04:33 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.60)
I would like to hear from some of the LE snipers about their shooting
tactics, quality of shot setup (accuracy needed) before being clear to
fire, etc.
I was reading a couple of reviews about the Leupold 3.5-10x 40mm
(M1 and M3 versions) scopes in the reviews section, and will summarize
a few points about each.
The M3 variety is considered "best for military" because 1 moa elevation
adjustments allow full range of adjustment with 1 revolution of the knob,
so the chance of being a complete revolution off is eliminated. This is
an advantage for the stressful situation w/ multiplie targets a different
ranges, etc. etc.
The M3 style also provides ballistic drop compensation (BDC) for
several popular rounds and can be marked for any personal favorite load.
The 1 moa adjustments are "good enough" for body hits out to 1000 yds.
(1/2 moa windage adjustments are provided).
The M1 variety is considered to give the extra precision needed for LE shooters, with 1/4 moa adjustments in elevation and windage. The LE sniper is likely to have more time to setup his shot, and less likely to need to engage multiple targets at different ranges quickly. So the M1 style has no bad points for this type of situation.
So far so good. But, several references have been made to the fact that most law enforcement engagements are at about 75 yards. With the M3 knobs, you can always be within 1/2 moa of any "PERFECT" setting (either 1/2 high or 1/2 low). At 75 yards, this 1/2 moa is only 0.375 inches. Even out at 200 yards, 1/2 moa error is only 1 inch and is equal to an error from a bad windage estimate off by 3 mph (with a 168 gr .308, a little less with .223).
I know that errors are cumulative, so it isn't wise to add 1/2 moa
error just for the knobs on a scope. But what are the parameters for taking
a shot, lets say when an instant kill is needed? Anywhere in the head?
I've heard refernce to more precision being needed in a hostage situation
to insure no reflex after a hit allows a dying shot.
How much precision is realistic with a live moving target? Would
the difference in precision between an M1 and M3 ever really matter? What
about compensating with hold-over, etc.
I hope this stirs up a discussion about shooting and shooting tactics.
My targets won't be moving if I staple 'em up right, so I'll ask
others!
PS: The best form of gun control is a smooth trigger squeeze.
Ken <kenneth.finlon@prodigy.net>
West Palm Beach, Fl, USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 13:58:58 (ZULU)
(your host address: 209.252.224.212)
My parents were members of the AARP. Several years ago, I noticed something (probably from the NRA) where that organization contributes to HCI. I had a talk with my dad, a WWII vet, and explained to him how while AARP may provide some beneficial services to his generation it would ultimately do more damage than good. I told him how I felt that every time HCI is successful toward their goal of monkeying with the Bill of Rights they set a precedent. Eventually when the blueprint for dismissing our rights is perfected, everything he went through back then will have been for nothing. This got his attention and Mom & Dad shortly thereafter cancelled their membership. Do any of you know someone who belongs to AARP?
Bravo,
Do you think a standard-sized .30 M1 carbine bullet with a core of
powdered tungsten, weighing 1.7 times more than a similar-sized lead core,
would improve the ballistics of this round? This would be a variation on
some of the stuff I intend to produce in the future.
Paul J. Headlee <pheadlee@networksplus.net>
Ogden, KS, USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 14:01:32 (ZULU) (your
host address: 199.240.135.45)
I'll add to your confusion. The clicks on the M3-LR are large enough, that it's easy to "Split a click"... so now you are never more than 2.5" off at 1000 yds (HA... come to Storm Mountain, and be 8 feet off... :)... or 0.18750" off at 75 yds. Since most garden varity tactical rifles shoot (on a "real" day) around 3/4th+"... I'm sure that makes a big difference.
Look! decide what kind of shooting you do... don't waste your time
pouring over "spec" sheets...
I really doubt that you're going to shoot some perp in the pupil
of his eye at 75 yds, so whether it's 0.3750" or 0.18750" is academic.
Do you shoot targets, and need that 1/4 adjustments, or do you want
to shoot tactical matches?
Decide what you want to do, and get the scope that does it better...
not a big one.
Pablito...
(... de los banditos sin Baaaadgeees!)
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 14:17:59 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.129)
take a look at an email that showed up today - seems like everyone's gonna ride the gunphobia wave.
Starts here>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please help us with this survey.
It is the most ambitious survey ever undertaken on the
subject of GUN CONTROL IN THE US. Please allow us to
apologize up front for this method of delivery,
however in today's world, this is the most efficient
way to reach the more than 5,000,000 Americans that
we need to contact.
If you are at least 18 years old and want to have your
voice heard on the issue of GUN CONTROL, please print
out this message, circle your responses, and FAX this
survey to 1-900-420-2021. A charge of $1.99 will
appear on your local phone bill to pay for the
survey. PROCEEDS IN EXCESS OF THE COST OF THIS SURVEY
WILL BE DONATED TO AID VICTIMS OF GUN VIOLENCE.
(Circle your response)
1. Should HAND GUN possession be limited to law
enforcement officers?
Yes No
2. Do you think that the intent of the Founding
Fathers relative to citizens owning fire arms is being
misinterpreted by pro-gun enthusiasts?
Yes No
3. Should criminals convicted of murder using ANY GUN
be put to death?
Yes No
THE FOLLOWING ARE TOTALLY OPTIONAL RESPONSES
I am a citizen of the State of: ______________________
My Name is:___________________________________________
My e-mail address is: ________________________________
My additional comments:
______________________________________________________
______________________________________________________
______________________________________________________
YOUR VOTE IS NEEDED TO ENLIGHTEN OUR LAWMAKERS!
SPEAK NOW, BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!
FAX YOUR RESPONSE TO 1-900-420-2021 NOW!
Feel free to copy this message and pass it along to
others who want their voices heard on the issue of
HAND GUN CONTROL.
Copyright, 1999. American Tabulation & Tracking
Co-op, surveying the American public on current
issues and and sending the results to the President
and Congress of the United States so that they will
understand the true feelings of the American People.
Ends here<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Ken <Ken@Hunters.org>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 15:36:47 (ZULU)
(your host address: 209.84.196.39)
TO be honest if they had Olympic Shooting on TV I would rather watch reruns of Sanford and Son. Unless they start letting the women shooters wear Spandex or somethin. Now Biathaletes shoot at reactive targets and wear Spandex so I would watch that!
Out here
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 16:04:55 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.17.168)
You could do what i did and spend a bunch of time and money...
Rebarrel it in 9 win mag. Im getting about 2600 fps with 115gr fmjs.
No I will not publish that load data. Firing a 95 gr xtp into wet
newspaper at about the same V produced a indent about 7" in diameter and
2 " deep. Projectile was totally vaporized. 147gr xtps at 1800 fps did
better penetrating about 5" about a 2" wound channel with approximatly
25% weight retained. You see why Im using fmj. Still havnt got it to feed
more than 3 reliably out of a 15 rd mag. Its for sale (FFL required of
course) if anyone must have it.
Ben
Ben Weeks <Shotcrete@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 16:47:36 (ZULU) (your host address:
15.254.49.4)
Gooch, it isn't just the Olympic events... you won't see movies where the good guy has a firarm and "wins" against the mugger... they didn't cover the news of the Florida police teaching the local women to shoot when they were plagued by a rapest... you won't see anything positive about hunting, self defence, or any other positive use of any firearms by civilians... it's all negative, and it does have an effect on the city folks, and their attitude.
Pablito.
PAblito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 16:48:14 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.129)
You mentioned that Liberator 45´s were used to great effect in the past by guerillas. As far as I know this was the plan, but which never really did take place. At least all books discussing the subject that I have read mention that Liberator 45 was developed for freedom fighters but only very few, if any, were really distributed to the guerillas in Asia. In Europe Sten SMG was much better and more readily available, so nobody did bother with Liberators here.
Do you, or any other people know more about this guns real life use ?
Take care
Heikki
Heikki Juhola <juhola@luukku.com>
Helsinki, Finland - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 19:58:33 (ZULU) (your
host address: 195.10.129.65)
Dennis <usmcspud@aol.com>
Merced, Kalifornicateya, USA - Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 20:45:37
(ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.33)
That survey is the type of thing that gives statistics a bad name. I know this because I am a statistician. This is a scam to build a database of suckers willing to give the scammer at least $2 any time the scammer yanks the suckers chain. Sounds like an easy way to make a living. Mathematically this little toy survey has no validity whatever.
Amarillo Slim's father said, "You can fleece a sheep many times but you can only skin him once".
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 03:55:08 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.42)
I have recently started collecting weapons again, after an extremely expensive divorce, in terms of time, material, and pride. The wife was no great loss. In my frequent surfing and searching, I have come across a vast wealth of information and technology. I have also encountered an incredible amount of blatant misdirection of energy, and outright stupidity, on the part of both gun-grabbers and gun-huggers.
Some of you may recall a few years back when some loop-hole of evolution claimed that it was his legal right to torch an American flag in public. There was alot of hoopla about whether it was or not, that we should amend the Constitution, and several other things. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed, and Pyro the Flag-Burning Pinhead and several other mutton-headed copy-cats were allowed to flame every Old Glory they could lay their hands on. Their zippos ran dry and life moved on.
The reason why those cooler heads let the whole thing peeter itself out was because they knew they didn't want to go screwing around with the Constitution. Why? To let some idiot "pursue his happiness"? No. They didn't want to set a precedent, any kind of ground work, that it was "OK" to fool with the Bill of Rights. No matter how "good" the reason or how "great" the intention.
That act of discretion, knowing enough not to do anything, did not slip by the would-be gun-grabbers. It exposed the very thing that they must aim for to be successful. They have to get it changed, it specifically says that we have the right to own and use guns. They have to convince a majority of We The People, that "we" need to change things. They may not be able to actually alter those documents, they may not even need to, but if they can alter the public's perception and understanding of them enough, who knows? They can do it and they have already. And they're getting better at it.
They will try to convince us that guns are bad, that we sometimes use them to hurt and even kill each other. The latter is true. They will try to convince us that we don't "need" certain types of guns. This is also true. Sure, what does Joe-hunter need with a machine-gun? They will try to convince us of all sorts of things designed specifically to lead us slowly but surely down the primrose path to the realization that we really don't "need" any firearm and "Sure, go ahead, go ahead, pass all the laws you want." Up to and including amending the Constitution if necessary.
We've already lost "Assault Weapons". The basic definition of a Semi-Automatic Assault Weapon is anything with a removeable magazine and at least two other life-threatening features such as a folding stock or a bayonet. I'd like to ask the genius that came up with that load if adding a fancy exhaust pipe and mag wheels to a Honda Civic made it a race car, or maybe putting a camo paint job on a VW Bug made it an armored personnel carrier. In California, you have to turn in your SKS by January 1, 2000 if it has a removeable magazine or go to jail. It doesn't even need to have a fancy stock or a knife on it. Better still, they'll give a voucher that you can't cash because they don't have the funds to back their new law. I don't know about your state, but it's illegal for me to write a bad check in New Mexico. And if you think that they're not after your Bolt-action 700? Guess again. Just ask any FORMER gun owner from the UK, or Australia, or South Africa.
You may not have cared when they decided you couldn't smoke where ever you wanted anymore and then sued the cigarette manufacturers. Maybe it didn't matter when they forced you to wear your seat belt or helmet. It's for your own good and it's the right thing to do, right? Wrong. ANYTIME ANY AMERICAN LOSES ANY RIGHT OR PRIVELEGE IT IT AN ATTACK AGAINST EVERY ONE OF US. The Constitution and specifically the Bill of Rights were written in very plain English and enacted by simple men to protect and preserve the rights of every single American. They are not up for debate or discussion. They are not subject to interpretation. They shall not be infringed.
My point in all of this is that it is not enough to quietly join the NRA (although I have been a gun-huggin' member for years)and sit back and wait for someone else to do your talking. You have got to speak up for yourself. Educate yourself and write to your Local, State, and Federal representitives. Write to the local papers. Call the radio and television stations. Participate in the opinion polls. Stay informed and for God's Sakes, Vote. Ignorance is their weapon, don't give them any more ammunition. And the next time some side-stepping do-gooder asks you your opinion about gun-control, just ask them which right they are willing to give up.
Againt fur? Don't wear one. Against abortion? Don't get one. Against guns? Don't own one.
But don't try to tell me that I can't.
Thomas A. Wright <NemeSys4565@yahoo.com>
Albuquerque, NM, USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 04:03:10 (ZULU)
(your host address: 12.74.3.92)
I can't speak for Asia, but they dropped tons of "Liberator" pistols
all over Europe, along with a stick of dynamite, a cap and fuse, and a
picture book of instrictions.
A friend in Austria has 27 Liberators, most of them, most still
sealed. He tried to give me one, but customs wouldn't let it be imported...
(no ser#, no maker, barrel too short, no proof marks, unsafe, no safty...
your mother's ugly... yadda, yadda, yadda...).
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 04:32:07 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.126)
Lito, thanks for bringing my oversite to my attention. Forgot to mention the caliber. I got a brain fart this morning.
Darren...
Semper Fi
I & HQ 3/12
Darren <ddong@witcapital.com>
San Francisco, California, USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 05:40:08
(ZULU) (your host address: 166.90.57.35)
I just placed an order for a new run of Sniper Country Shirts. This LIMITED run will have a NEW color, which will be Forrest Green. The large words "Sniper Country" will not appear on the back. Otherwise the T-shirt graphic will look like the 1999 model.
Currently the only sizes I plan on running are XL and XXL.
Forrest Green is not available in XXXL and no XXXLs will be available in this run.
If you are an XXXL, I can get you black shirts, but I MUST have your order before 10 December to get it this year.
Currently I am only running 25 shirts, first come first serve. If orders reflect higher interest I will increase the order. Forrest Green will be the only color. Price for either size will be $16.50 plus shipping. Shipping remains the same as last year $3.50 for up to five shirts.
There has been some requests for a long sleeve Sniper Country shirt. If you want this, please email me by December 10, preferably sooner. I can not place orders for these after 13 December due to the Christmas rush. Price for the Long Sleeve shirt will be $22.00 plus shipping. I can not order these until I have at least 10 orders. Sizes for this will be by special order as I will not be making the run unless I have enough to justify it. Sizes can be L, XL, XXL, and XXXL. Shirt is 100% heavy weight. Order early if you want it before the new year.
You asked for it, so here it is. If you were serious, get your orders in asap and maybe we can beat the Christmas rush. Thanks.
Scott Powers
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 07:05:38 (ZULU) (your host address:
192.91.146.34)
I was going over the roster, and the comments on the Carbine, and Ben Weeks' conversion to 9mm Win Mag... and I remembered the little wildcat, the .22 Carbine (30 carb, necked down to .22). It was real popular back in the 50's and 60's for shooting the hoards of Jack rabbits, out of movin' pick up trucks, and jeeps.
Then it dawned on me (see... I was going somewhere with this!)... that there used to be tons of Jack rabbit shooting back then... litterally 500 to 1000 A DAY!! They were far worse than Prairie Dogs... then I haven't heard a word about them in 20 years or more... So, you'se guys out in the South West, and in the grain country... what happened to all the Jack rabbit shooting... did they just die out... poisoned?... or are you keeping it to yourselves.
PLEASE don't start a thread on this one... answer me by e-mail!
Pablito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 07:07:02 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.38)
Heikki: I don't have a clue about Asia, as I didn't know that they were supposed to be used there. I was refering to them being used extensively in France by the underground. At least that's what I read, and they were supposedly rather common. Makes sense, one 45 pop and you got a MP40 with a mag. Or sturmgeweher (SP?). Anything's better than nothing!
On M1 Carbine rounds: I also tried all I could to get a good load with Speer spire point 110's. Couldn't do it. If you can, you're a better loader than me!
'Lito: three speeds are a hoot, I had a 4. Safe, semi, worn out recoil
spring, new spring. Changed from a tap tap tap to a chainsaw!
Got plenty of flea bags out here, but nothing like they used to
be.
Have to go write my governor now, seems he wants to restrict where I can carry my pistol (with my license).
Anyone else heard about reducing the gas port diameter on a M1A for
more velocity / less gas system pressure?
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 07:57:48 (ZULU)
(your host address: 12.9.223.165)
Gooch, I think you may have misunderstood me. My only concern with all the militia talk is that the roster might evolve into a meeting place for the various militia movements in existence. Due to the nature of the site, it is understandable that those looking to improve their chances in the event the country goes to hell in a hand basket come visit SC. That is fine. But I would hope the roster would remain an educational tool for all shooters. Not just a soap box for all the various political organizations that share a common enjoyment of shooting or defensive marksmanship.
For all the intellectual debate that surrounds the militia movement,
the simple fact remains that SC tries to be non-political in nature. We
may all agree in our beliefs, but the site must remain true to its course
and not be side tracked by endless political debate.
My point was simply that we just do not want to see the Roster degenerate
into an endless debate about government, Clinton, Democrats, the UN or
politics. These are ALL interesting topics, but we had hoped to keep the
Roster a learning experience for shooters, not just another political refuge
for the anti-government movement. Hell, I am more libertarian than anything
else, so I think I understand the issues. But that is irrelevant. The site
is about long range shooting. I was not being PC. I was however trying
to keep us on track.
I will not apologies if I pissed off any skin heads or other persons of that ilk. And there are PLENTY of those in the militia movement. There is my main problem with some of these organizations. They profess freedom, but only want it for themselves. They can, in short, kiss my ass. My concern with all the political talk is that we will eventually see more of them here on the roster. No thanks!
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 08:22:04 (ZULU) (your host address:
192.91.146.34)
Several of mine had a gear shift levers on the left side of the ejection
port... three speeds, "S"top "F"ast, and "A"wful fast!!
And man, was it a ball with "Red tip" trace.
Someone gave you real bad dope on the gas port thing...
The M14, M1A, M21, M25 group, needs between 12,000 and 14,000 psi
at the gas port to function.
There may be a little slack on the low side if the gun is well broken in, and very smooth... and slack on the high side, if the gun is new and stiff, but you go too far out of this range of pressures, and the 14 family either won't cycle properly and closes on a fired case... or it beats itself to death... a bad end to a fine rifle. Feed 'em good ammo, and they run well. They are very fine rifles (dispite what Scott says :))
If you make the gas port smaller, it just won't cycle.
The gas port is only a few inches behind the muzzle... so it won't
have any effect onthe velocity... (maybe 10 fps??).
There is a gas port shutoff valve on the 14's so it can launch granades...
you can close the gas port, and measure the difference... the National
match, Super match, and M21's have this port disabled, so I can't do it
on mine... if anyone has a standard M1A, try it and let me know what (if
any) difference is.
Pablito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 08:23:09 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.38)
Marius finally got un-busy enough to post some more pix from the Carlos N. Hathcock Memorial Sniper Match in the photo gallery.
Sorry for the peteR induced delay,
well actually,
it was that jet setting Scott Powers, who took time between jaunts
to Bora-Bora, and Southern Italy,(or was it Greece?) to scan and transmit
them to Marius.
Is it true that Tia Carrera was on the back of your bike out to Sturgis Scott???????? So they call it "Lymes Disease" now huh?
Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 10:55:20 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.193.164)
Does anybody know if a "Becker pack", will fit on an Alice frame??
Pablito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 11:45:00 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.140.80.123)
Darren, Bbl life os PSS is not an absolute. Watch for velocity drop and groups to open up. Velocity drop is a pretty good indicator of what the inside is like. As a bbl wera less rounds can be fired before the groups open up. I look for how it shoots. If you start with a 1MOA weapon it wont be long before it groups to large for comfort. I have a McMillan built in 1981 that has the original bbl and now shoots 3/4MOA after ten thousand plus rounds. It started as a 1/4MOA rifle with hand loads. Hope this helps.
I am staing out of the Militia thing other than to say that my earlier post was talking more of a perception problem than anything else.
Mike/Undude
MikeM <tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 12:52:18 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.196.32)
The tip that Steve (The "orginal") gave would be a very good way to go... the tap would lower the op-rod velocity, and would be easier to do, than getting a barrel with a non standard bleed hole, and if you do it, you could un-do it easier than messing with the barrel again.
Mictac...
Yup, I can wait... I've got all winter to get ready for the next
assault on SMTC :)) I've got a medium (and big) alice, but would like more
exterior pockets, without going to the big alice.
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 13:16:20 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.140.80.123)
Thermo-Anemometers.In the endless array of high-tech gadgets,tools,aides
and other assorted minutia that seem so useful in making long range target
contact it seems to me that the ability to accurately gauge wind speedis
almost completely overlooked.Your going to buy the most accurate rifle,scope,rangefinder,etc,etc
and your gonna gauge the wind by watching the grass blow?WHY?For way under
$150 you can tell exactly the wind speed and temperature(+/-.1).The only
reference I've seen pertaining to these units is a picture of one on the
cover of the June issue of TS.I realize that the wind at your target may
be completely different than at the shooter but at least it would give
you a useful tool for verifying your trained eye,kinda like a Laser rangefinder/Mil-Dot
pairing.These things are cheap,light,accurate,and yes I have one on order.I'm
too ignorant to create hyperlinks so here are two websites that have them
....www.kestrelinsruments.com and www.extech.com (this model is under "whats
new"mod#45118 pocket thermo-anemometer).Look at these and tell me why I
should not have spent my $85 dollars on one.
Bruce E <BGENLVTEX@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 14:53:24 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.199.178)
Didn't even get a chance to use all my newly aquired long range expertise LOLLOLLOL.
Anybody got deer meat for sale?
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 14:59:26 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.138.40.29)
Come on up to Connecticut, and leave your guns home... got one with
an '87 Dodge Caravan two weeks ago... but he got run over bad by the truck
in the other lane... Caravan didn't do too well :((
I've seen more dead deer this fall, than in the last 5 years, all
put together... (P.E.T.A. is real strong up here!)... and the damn things
are like rats! I've seen heards in the middle of town (a large town of
60,000).
Bruce E...
I've thought about those Thermo-Anemometers thingies... Gooch and
Rod had a neat military unit down at SMTC... and we measured one cross
wind at 35mph. There are certinly times when it won't have all the answers,
but it's something I want to add to the kit.
Wind is not one of my strong points, and something like this might
give some corrolation between wind speed, and the aparent leaf/branch/tree/grass
movement. I have (since I was a kid) ranged things while I went through
the day, like a sign down the road, and paced or drove the distrance...
it's good mental prep.
If you have something like these Thermo-Anemometers, you can start
observing the effect of wind on the things around you, when you're killing
time, and build a library of windage effects in your mind... at least I
think so, and I'm going to get one this spring.
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 15:39:43 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.140.80.123)
I read an article not too long ago about survey scams. Some of these
companys are not even AMERICAN! They have researched to find out the topics
that really get americans hot and get you to pay to participate in the
survey ...ie..telephone billing..They most likely do nothing with the results.
Probably trash them. Don't fall for it. Best way to let your voice be heard
is at the Election booth!!!
Rick <Bountyhnts@aol.com>
NH, USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 17:24:47 (ZULU) (your host
address: 152.163.197.204)
Oh no, they don't trash the results. Not if they are smart. They want you to fill out a form. That goes on a database. From there you are cultivated like sheep to be shorn. Again, and again, and again.
You would be surprised how powerful a psychopathic statistician can be.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 17:32:26 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.45)
Any one that I have conversed with via e-mail, I lost my address book on the reformat... could you drop me a note so I can rebuild it.
On the Kestrel wind thingy ;)
I use an earlier version (wind only) for high power matches. I find
it handy when I can stand up and spend some time watching the direction/speed
pattern. I have found mine to give bogus readings if there is any obstruction
on the wind ward side (not necessarilly in the way or blocking, just altering
the flow). I use it for a reference and then go back to the mirage. Does
the wind speed increase as you get farther above the ground? I would bet
on it, I have measured wind at 10mph with the Kestrel unit while the wind
flag right next to me was straight out.
For me, it is a tool to help me learn to read the wind/mirage quicker.
I have had a friend walk down range with it and a radio. He would relay
the speed and direction back to me while I observed the mirage. What did
I learn? That I was "seeing" waay more wind than I should have, and over
compensating on my first shot (sighters are great). Now, I am usually near
the x-ring on my first sighter out to 300yds and in the 10-ring at 600yds
(good piece of mind for "leg matches"). Besides, what would do you do in
a real world situation (or practice/match) that requires you to remain
undetected? I suspect that you would rely on mirage and the "wind indicators"
dust, leaf movement, etc.. In my totally NONPROFESSIONAL opinion, it would
be a great training tool, and could be useful in the field where you have
the ability to use it without compromise. Any of you "professionals" out
there care to comment?
And Yes, it is worth the asking price.
steve <hockyref@bellatlantic.net>
south West, pennsylvania, USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 17:59:03
(ZULU) (your host address: 151.201.122.159)
The reason, take your pick:
1) scope fogged up
2) too much rain to see any mirage
3) you aren't smart enough, or are too stubborn to get off the line
in a rain storm
4) if it ain't raining this ain't training
5) 1,2,3,4&5
6) there are "bad people" around that won't let you get a shower
and hot coffee
steve <hockyref@bellatantic.net>
USA - Wednesday, November 24, 1999 at 18:14:27 (ZULU) (your host address:
151.201.122.159)
Five years ago, I did a review of a Skywatch pocket anemometer and "quickie" test for an article placing surveyors ribbon at 5 and 10 yard intervals out to 50 yards. IT NEVER ONCE IN THREE DAYS OF OBSERVATION SHOWED THE SAME PATTERN!
I saw at least two different wind directions at Storm Mountain by using the trees and bushes as indicators, and it was not even windy....
Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 01:39:06 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.193.39)
Bruce E,
I used a wind meter to help me learn to read the wind. I will always
make my call on the wind then I check it with the wind meter. I had the
cheap one and it sucked!!! It would read bogus for me and I had no faith
in it some though swear by it but I had no luck with mine I bought a good
one and love it but use it as a tool to learn to read the wind not as a
crutch. Jut my thoughts on it.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 02:09:26 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.130)
Reloading question. Has anyone checked out the differences between Federal 215 Large Mag. primers and Federal 215GM match primers. Are they comparable or is one hotter than the other? Will velocities be equal ? I understand the quality control thing. It seems the local shop is not stocking them anymore because there isn't much demand for them so I'm thinking about switching to the regular primers. Should I order a couple of cases of 215Ms from somewhere else? Any comments. Thanks....
Happy Thanksgiving to all..
Tony Y <ayackowski@rcn.com>
Iselin, NJ, USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 03:15:32 (ZULU) (your
host address: 32.97.88.100)
PS: Send cold weather
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 03:28:21 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.138.46.132)
Thanks,
Rod
Rod Ryan <ryan@stormmountain.com>
Elk Garden, WV, USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 03:59:47 (ZULU)
(your host address: 129.71.17.155)
To ALL,
Happy Thanksgiving to a great bunch of guys!!!!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 04:04:33 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.130)
1) Photocopy your kid's "How I Spent My Summer Vacation".
2) Put the copy in an envelope addressed to "The Capitol, Washington
D.C."
3) Take it to the post office and send it certified.
When it arrives it is opened by some minimum wage flunky who then glances at it to see if it contains any type of threat. If it does not, it is tossed in the trash. So, if 10,000 suckers want to send me $2 each, I will be happy to send a one paragraph report to Congress on anything from Tinker Bell to tooth-decay. It takes twenty minutes and costs about $4.
Plus I get a list of gullible dumb-asses who can pay my kids' way through college.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 04:14:49 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.6)
Also, your barrel may be in fine shape but your lead (free boar or throat, what ever you cal it in your neck of the woods) may have grown so long via errosion that it has negatively impacted your accuracy. These barrels can be brought back by having a new chamber cut. You'll lose some bore length in the process but who cares? For someone short on cash, this might be an option.
A good .308 can go between 3500 and 10,000 rounds. Some folks have
reported even higher numbers with acceptable accuracy. "Acceptable" of
course is subjective. The rifle that aggrivates me with a 1.0 moa average
might be da BOMB for an eastern deer hunter. How long the accuracy lasts
depends on a lot of things. Load type, frequency of cleaning, type of powder,
errosion, abuse to name a few. Shooting really hot loads with very long
boat tail bullets will shorten the life a bit for instance. By how much?
Beats me.
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 05:27:38 (ZULU) (your host address:
192.91.146.34)
I had warranty work completed on my M-24 SA (PST-03A), about four
years ago. I had developed some spider cracks around the rear pillar. I
contacted H-S Precision by phone. They told me to box it up and ship to
them. They repaired the crack and repainted. About a year later, I
noticed some of the epoxy finish cracking off. It saw some hard
use. Sent it out again. No questions asked. They replaced with a new stock
in my choice of camo pattern. All I was out, was the postage to get it
there. Good Company. They stand behind their work. Warranty should not
be a problem.
Semper Fi.
D. S. Robinson
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 08:09:43 (ZULU) (your host address:
192.91.146.35)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Posted by Jayhawker on November 21, 1999 at 18:48:47:
I have an H-S Precision stock, identical to the Rem VS, that has
longitudal crack in the bottom of the pistol grip. It could be "glassed"
and
repainted but I thought H-S might have a warranty on this. Anybody
have any info? Thanx,
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 08:11:28 (ZULU) (your host address:
192.91.146.34)
Scott, I have to disagree with you about the IOR Scopes. The one I had was a 10x56 with a 30mm tube. It had tremendous lenses, better than Leupold, but the turret adjustments were no damm good! If they have fixed that in the last two years great, but take a good look at them and the internals. I saw not hardened screws, course adjusters and a Mickey Mouse way of setting zero. A sniper scope is far more than great glass. Also they do not have a true Mildot reticle. Until I see somethiing more from them my money is on Leupold, since BxL quit making the 10x Tactical(Pablito)
Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 08:28:31 (ZULU) (your host
address: 152.163.201.206)
I can be reached at dsnygrl@ameritech.net.
Thanks for any help!
John
Sgt. John Belknap <dsnygrl@ameritech.net>
Ann Arbor, MI, USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 08:43:39 (ZULU)
(your host address: 199.179.190.125)
BTW this site is great, I find more helpful advice here than in any
magazine at the local book store. thx
Wolf <RockyRun@centurytel.net>
hickville, Wi, USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 11:19:55 (ZULU)
(your host address: 209.206.147.109)
Don <tdfarmer@concentric.net>
USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 13:36:29 (ZULU) (your host address:
206.83.80.24)
Hmmm, M1 Carbine. Nice gun and it's reliable. I have owned several
and the only draw back in my opinion is that the ammo is now starting to
get expensive. I have heard a lot of stories about how ineffective the
bullet is but, I think that can be said for ANY moderate velocity FMJ.
The .30 carbine is very nasty with either the Speer 100gr plinker (half
jacket) or the Hornady 100gr half jacket. No one will walk away after getting
nailed with a couple of these. The powder that is great for the .30 M1
is H-110.
As for rechambering the thing, I have thought about this quite a
bit in the past and if I were to choose a round for that size gun it would
be the .221 Fireball. Rimmed cases can jam in a big way not to mention
take up a lot of space in your magazine. The 5.7mm Johnson was one of the
competitors against the .223 rem. The 5.7 was nothing more than a .30 case
necked down to accept .224" bullets. As far as people criticizing the gun,
I doubt you will find any volunteers to stand in front of one.
In what ever situation you might face, I do think the M! carbine
is a viable choice, especially since you can get several pistols chambered
for it too. Nice. I know I will get dinged for blessing the carbine as
a backup. Concider this, if your wife, grilfriend, or sinifigant other
is recoil shy and you are on a tight budget the M1 is a first rate choice
for personal defense. Sorry guys for going afainst the prevailing view.
Semper Fi!
Bad Karma
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 14:37:09 (ZULU) (your host address:
165.196.191.44)
Don't apoligize on the 30 Carb... no home should be without one... mebbe' two!!
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 15:12:00 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.135)
I think I will add my $.02 worth on the whole militia gun control
debate as well as a comment to the commies who may visit this site. Eh,
hem! The deal on militias is simple, if you don't want to get fingered,
don't organize. Just you and your spotter will do, let your conscience
be your guide. As far as the legitimacy of militias is concerned I think
our current political enviroment is justification enough to make them feasable.
I do not believe in violence, hell after Desert Storm I lost my taste for
hunting but, I will defend myself, my family, and the Constitutuon. Those
of you who WANT to do somethin do what I am doing. I donate my time and
put my reputation on the line by helping out a pro gun, pro freedom candidate
for election. This is my way of fighting back. It's easy. I go to his/her
campaign office and stuff envelopes, make signs, phone voters, make coffee,
or what ever the hell needs done I will help out. I aint rich so money
is out of the question. I feel good and I feel that this is the way to
change shi- around here is by getting off my a-- and constructivly fighting
back.
Just for the record I would like to say that if we get a REAL Presedent
in office next year as well as a stronger Republican Senate and house,
I think that the Senate sub-commitee on un-American affairs should be reopened
and kick out some of these socialist a--holes who have no idea what honor
is. These are the same dic-heads who dispise us veterans who made it possible
for their commie rhetoric to be spoken in public in the damn place. I get
treated like shi- by some people because I think the Stars and Stripes
are worth folding with ginger care. I am also of the oppinion that if the
Chi-coms become a pain in the ass that we wok them with nukes! The men
and women who fought and died to defeat communism are being slapped in
the face by a bunch of draft dodging, anti military, never been outside
of the country pieces of shi-!
Do I sound pissed off? You !@&!!$% right I am! How can 80 million
gun owners be out foxed by the "soccer moms" I will never know.
As far as gun control goes fellas is this. They the left can NEVER
rid guns from America. If they tried they would be laughed out of the country.
I was a cop for a time and I would never attempt to confiscate any weapon
from any law abiding citizen. If you are in the LE field and you feel that
your stupidvisors and police quiefs will order you to confiscate guns all
you have to say is "No" simple. This will be my last posting on politics-ever.
I hope that when all the politics are set aside and freedom is once
again restored folks will never allow the commies (sic) Democrats to ever
hold office again. Handgun Control, Inc., should be declared a subversive
organization and banned from non profit status!
End of political smack!
Semper Fi!
Bad Karma
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 15:20:27 (ZULU) (your host address:
165.196.191.44)
Lastly, the best (by FAR) thirty cal. patches I have ever used are made by U.S. Arsenal. They are round, textured cotton, and will not pull apart, and can be had from Jerry's Sport Center (wholesale distributor) for one source.
Out.
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Radioactive, CA, USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 15:21:34 (ZULU)
(your host address: 206.14.52.225)
HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL!
David Kiser <kiser403@mailcity.com>
NC, USA - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 16:06:07 (ZULU) (your host
address: 207.203.13.98)
I bought a pair of surplus Steiner 8X30G binoculars with the distance estimation reticle. Would someone care to confirm me the distances. If I recall right the longer "ticks" are 4 mil high and the shorter ones are 2 mil. The distance between a short and a long "tick" is 5 mil. Am I right ?
Another question: I am planning to mount Butler Creek flip-up caps to the objectives. Does Tenabraex still sell those honeycombed "KillFlash" caps to the public ? Which size is best, as the rubber outside the objective has a little bit of "give in", I probably has to order one size smaller. Someone here(Rod Ryan ?) has these caps installed, maybe he could elaborate. I can order those caps, but they are not available in those shops I use, so I really can not try different sizes before ordering. What about the oculars ? The issued plastic cover is no good and only in my way when using the binocs, so what do you suggest to replace them ?
BTW even though these binocs are a little bit battered (German Bundeswehr surplus), the optics themselves are in very good condition and all adjustments work OK, so I am happy with them. They are pretty compact and light.
Best regards,
Heikki
Heikki Juhola <juhola@luukku.com>
Helsinki, Finland - Thursday, November 25, 1999 at 21:38:25 (ZULU)
(your host address: 195.10.129.65)