I decided to get a Remington 700 VS in .308, a Leupold 3.5-10 LR-M3, and Badger Ordnance rings and mount.

Off I went to the local shop owned by a friend of mine and waited and waited while he called all his distributors.

None of his distributors has the 700 VS.

What gives? Did all the hunters buy them up already this year? Or did Remington discontinue them? While waiting, I picked up a 1999 Rem catalog, paged through it, and found the 700 VS - listed in Left Hand Only. Ugg!! I aint no leftie!

Help!!
MikeL <mlitscher@wi.rr.com>
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 00:31:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 65.25.160.112)

Per your question on the BiggerHammer board. You can realistically expect 1500-1800m hard target hits. The wind really plays hell on the 50 projectile. The BC for the mil-stuff is terrible. I went to Benning a couple months ago to repair the Sniper School guns, went to Red Cloud range and hit the 1800m M113 a consistant 9 for 10 using MK211 Raufoss.

Have fun with your 50!
Tony <50buildr@bellsouth.net>
Murfreesboro, TN, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 01:42:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.76.148.37)

Yup... I got "The Fever". My last exposure to a 50 was a custom shellholder rifle, and I didn't like it a bit... kicked you into next week... three rounds, and you went home (with buzzing sounds in your head)!

I wanted a good turn bolt "Mauser" type, with a "BFMB"!! (Big Friggin' Muzzle Break!!).
I saw a AR-50 at my dealers, and he let me play (as in take it apart), and I fell in luv... placed an order for one, and called him back and ordered one for my friend (the shellholder gun guy).

I'll be loading my own... everybody will laugh at me if I shoot factory.

Does Dean's book have accurate flight curves (tested, not caculated), for military ball, AP, API, and APIT, etc...???
I'll load the A-Max's for a lot of shooting, but also want to play with military projectiles. I have Incendary for my .308, and it's a friggin' riot.

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 02:10:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.80)

Would also appreciate any comments on an Armalite AR-180.

Thanks guys

MikeL in Milwaukee,
Remington discontinued the RH .308 VS for 1999; but they are making them again. If you need help finding one, drop me a note and I'll see what I can do.
Doc <docs@fidnet.com>
The Ozark boonies where we vote for "live" people; not dead ones!, MO, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 02:54:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.229.72.70)

Yeah, Deans book has a lot of decent poop in it. But there is a some that just doesn't jive with all that I've shot with my time at Barrett. I'm no expert, but I do have over 30,000 rds downrange with the 82A1 and the M95. The farthest I've shot is 2400m. Hits that far are more luck than anything. Reading the wind with this cartridge can be a real lesson in heartbreak. The mil stuff is really agravating. You can get really good results with the M8 AP. It flies truest of any of the mil stuff out there.

If you do decide to use the AMAX bullets, watch out what you buy. The 1st generation stuff is about 1/4" longer than the new projo's being made. The old ones will fly through paper sideways starting at around 250-300m. Will get the OAL of the new ones we have at the shop and mail it to you with some reload data that I came up with for the AMAX. Them bullets are something else.

We got in some factory match rds for the 50 a week ago for me to test, they are real nice rounds. Got a consistant 1MOA with the M82A1 out to 800m. After that it ran 1 1/4min out to 1200. That was all the shooting I did on the 82A1. With the M95/ XM107, it ran 3/4min all the way to 1400m. I was duly impressed. I didn't think the ammo makers had it in them. Can't tell the producer yet, they don't have their patent yet. We got a case to test out.

'lito, shoot me your address and I'll send the book to you to check out.
Tony <50buildr@bellsouth.net>
Murfreesboro, TN, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 03:42:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.76.148.37)

As for short barreled .223 bolt guns and scopes I'd go with a Luppie 3.5 X 10 Vari-X III. For the gun and use you described you don't need Badger parts or the MKIV series scopes.

I used that scope on my Rem Varmint Special .223 in PA. Much to the demise of many PA ground hogs. Clean kills to 400 yards were common using 55 gr Nosler soft points...

Save the money and by components and gas for your hunting trips.

Enjoy!

Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 03:43:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.249.152)

I've never seen the QRW rings used on an AR. Why not?
 
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 04:07:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.237.98)

Damn, the AR-50 weighs 40 lbs? whew sounds like it needs to be mounted in a FAV.
 
 
 
 

Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 04:39:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.74.23)

I've been checking the "Calender of Events" section and there is no mention of upcoming sniper matches. What's coming up?

What's the skinny on the Florida shoot? It's getting cold and grey around here and I could use some beach time.

GOOCH....you out there? SITREP??

Off Topic: I've never hunted coyotes before. They're all over this area now. What reference material would be recommended? What's the best way for me to come up to speed on this? e-mail is ok, don't take up space here with replies.

Thanks,
Kevin R. Mussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 11:46:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)

McGrath
John McGrath <jkmcgrath@home.com>
Springfield, MO, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:27:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.255.84)

Check out Tac-Ord, they have a .50 built on a harris action & K&P BBL, it chambers the .50 short (some type of spotters round) or you can get the full .50 BMG all wraped up in a nice fuzzy 20-25 lbs.
It was developed as a sub-sonic gun, but my bro Jamee Wade at Tac-Ord will make it into a super-sonic full .50 .

check em' out

Later

Kush out
 
 

Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
Buffalo , NY, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:34:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 136.183.144.82)

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment111300n.shtml
 
 
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:25:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.6)

"Also getting to be too many crazies in the woods, even around our lease."

This past Saturday was opening day where I hunt, and I almost got shot one once, not twice, not even three times, but FOUR F-ING TIMES! I am now very well aquainted with the distinctive CRACK-BOOM of supersonic rounds passing close to your head.

Gotta go buy an entrenching tool before my next hunt...

Roger
Roger C <madeditor75@hotmail.com>
Where hippies and body-piecers are considered upstanding citizens...Austin, TX, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:22:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.226.102.2)

What else do you expect from a party heavily financed by trial lawyers associations? They've made the justice system into an entity that rewards those who know how to manipulate the system, not an entity that actually serves justice.

Still trying to make it up to Tac-Pro for the precision rifle course. Maybe I'll see you there.

Roger
Roger C <madeditor75@hotmail.com>
The only place in the country where a nude beach and a birdwatching site are placed right next to eachother, Austin, TX, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:32:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.226.102.2)

Yeah, I remember that silly thing about cleaners... I still have a gallon jug of green patches, smellin' real good.

My choice is based on how I clean, and some long term brand loyality.
I often come in with several filthy guns, and I just sloppy wet patch them, and finish up the next day... well maybe a few days later, so something that can't be left in the barrel, don't get into my place!!

And I'm very brand loyal... if a company serves me well, I hang in there, and I love the smell of that jooce... been smellin that Hoppe's #9, and G-96 oil for more years than most of youz guys have on your drivers licenses.
I go down into the basement, and the aroma on #9, and G-96, that's soaked into the work benches for years, says "Welcome to heaven, Dude!"...
... it's better than two keys of "Mexican Black Hemp"! for a high ;))

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:03:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.101)

Kush mentioned a shortened .50 cal round rifle by Tac-Ord. Believe this is the old spotter round for the 106 recoiless rifle. Designation was M-8 spotter, I believe. Neat gun and concept. Spotter gun was semi-auto magazine fed and had the same trajectory as the 106MM. Pull the knob to fire the spotter. When you got a puff of smoke on the target you just pushed in and fired the 106!

I may be dating myself, but anyone here even remember the 106?

Wes
(Who actually fired one!)

P.S. It gets my vote for a "heavy snipers weapon". Of course backblast is a bit of a give away, but the guys on the recieving end usually aren't in condition to bitch at that point. Beehive gets my vote as the antipersonnel round of choice!
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:28:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.6.15.20)

That will be good, lots of one on one training.

About the what did I expect, sorry to say nothing, that's the sad part.

Now with the news of high jacked military absentee ballots, and fourth class postage put on some,to make sure the mil- guy's/gal's votes would not make in time, has got me to the point where I will never trust a Democrat again. Period.

I never have trusted most politico's anyway.....but this has iced it but good.

Whatever happened to real Statesmen???

Two PO'd Shoes
shakingmyheadintexas
Terry <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:28:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.199.59)

'lito.... I agree with you 100% on the #9, I too have been using it
for more years than I can remember. My wife even likes the smell of
the stuff, and it's much cheaper than Chanel No.5 ;-)). It's just
that I get lazy sometimes, and was just investigating different
products that are said to work faster, before ruining a barrel or two.

Political thought.... Algor should probably win the election... after
all, he did graduate from the Electoral College...didn't he?

Bruce and Hugo.... I didn't mean ALL lawyers, just their guys :-)

Keep praying,
Alan

ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
PALISADE, COLORADO, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:36:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.169.64.91)

Dear Janet Reno,

I need legal help fast!! My rights have been voilated and I do not know where to turn.

I woke up thursday morning to discover I had the correct Texas Lottery numbers, however, I mistakenly put the wrong numbers on the lottery ticket!!

The ticket was so confusing and hard to read that now Im not sure what numbers I put on it. I do know that when I heard the winning numbers Thursday morning, they were the exact same ones I had when I went into the store to fill out the ticket.

I asked the store clerk for help and explained my difficulty, but, all I was told was, "Man are you stupid? Just put some numbers in the blocks!!"

I believe my civil rights have been violated and I am (With a little help from the local chapter of a major non-profit organization) writing you a letter to have U.S. Marshals come to Austin and freeze the lottery until I can get my ticket re-issued and the winning numbers acconted for.

Can you help me with this problem??

Again, I did have the correct numbers, however, I couldn't read the ticket, figure out the numbers or how the numbers were arranged. This is a gross injustice and I am the WINNER!!

Sincerly yours,

A Real Dumb-Ass Floridian
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 19:55:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)

Actually Algor INVENTED the electoral college, or so I've heard. HA!

Wes, I think I saw one in a museum once. But seriously, It looked like a cool round, not as punishing as the full .50 BMG
Which brings me to your anti-personell choice, 40MM beehive is a fun round, takes a door effectively off the hinges in a CQB enviroment.

Later

Kush out
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 19:59:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 136.183.144.239)

Friend of mine (a retired Navy Master Chief) put it very well this morning when he said that the Dems have always suffered from a lack of gentlemen in their party. Repubs will take into account the greater good of the country and do like Nixon did and back off even when they're clearly right in order to avoid a dispute that will damage the country. A Dem doesn't care about anything but his own self interest. Liberals are so perpetually indignant. They're constantly going off at the mouth and people take the attitude of "let the baby have his bottle" and give them what they want just to shut them up and make them go away. The only problem is, they never shut up and they always come back.

I just got the package from Tac-Pro yesterday. I read through it at my desk just a while ago and saw that I'll need to bring along at least 200 rnds of ammo. Don't know why, but I hadn't considered that when planning the excursion. D'oh! Guess I'll need to order that case of GMM 168 I've be procrastinating over...

Roger
Roger C <madeditor75@hotmail.com>
Quoth Clinton, "You want a cigar?" Austin, TX, USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 20:13:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.226.102.2)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_dougherty/20001114_xnjdo_military_a.shtml

So, are the bulk of overseas ballots coming from expatriates living in Israel? And who is watching the post office? Is it possible to "misplace" ballots that can be identified as military?
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 20:42:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.19)

I have posted those you who are regulars here a rather interesting joke.

I apologize for that actually because I personally hate getting more than the occasional joke but I thought this one was too sweet to pass up considering the current political side show we are being forced to endure.

I fly on the morrow and will be back in a couple weeks. Business south (way) of here beckons.

Play Hard!

Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Headed for a third world nation tomorrow to purchase land. For real and with the intention of making a move., Will brief you upon return if interested., USA - Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 20:47:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.111.166)

A lot of political posts...just wish they'd get it over with so we can take action one way or another...

Kush, Been awhile since I've seen 40MM Behive. Last time I used a 40MM was to blow an armory in place during Desert Shield/Desert Storm.
It was our armory and it's a six beer story!

'lito, anyone who underestimates the power of Hoppes #9 doesn't know much. My wife (then lady friend), put a dab behind each ear. We've been married 10 years now. Shit, you think it should come with a warning label?

All for now.

S/F

Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 03:33:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.248.115)

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 05:31:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.48)

First, read Scott Powers' article on detachable magazine systems. Then, tell me what you think of the H.S. Precision detachable magazine system. I am planning on installing one on my Rem 700P. I have seen the system in an H.S. HTR rifle just last week, it looked and felt excellent. I was very impressed by the quality, and liked the way it aligned the top cartridge with the boreline (centered in front of the bolt face). Also, Armament Technology apparently uses this system in their rifles.

JR from H.S., feel free to send me any info on this system.
 

Thanks!
onezero <onezero@specialoperations.com>
Don't Tread On Me, in the, USA - Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 07:01:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.105.22.108)

You're absoluty right... every time my lady wanted "you know what", she'd dab some Hoppe's #9 "you know where"! And those of you that don't know what "you know what" and "you know where" are, you're too young to be reading this site! ;))

It's Wednesday again... gotta go make money for "you know what" (the 50 BMG)... a good set of match grade dies (C-H)... $500 OUCH!!

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Sellin' ma' soul for BIG BOOLETS... in the politically confused, USA - Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 11:46:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.61)

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment111300g.shtml
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 12:18:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.53)

C-H dies are good, we use the Hornady New Dimension 50BMG dies at work for tinkering around. They are almost as good as the C-H. Key word -ALMOST. But still good dies, $250 for a set of them.
Tony <50buildr@bellsouth.net>
Murfreesboro, TN, USA - Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 12:35:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.214.118.136)

Didn't think the 106MM comments would get the reaction it did. Just means most of the crew knows good shit!

Kevin and Ken. The Marines fielded ONTOS. I believe our version had four tubes on it. Army had one with six. My understanding was that if you fired them all at once you cracked the turret welds! Other problem was you had to get our to reload...

I don't know about a Recoiless Rifle in a MOUT environment. Backblast would be a substantial problem to surrounding structures and troops.Not to mention some of the huts we find probably wouldn't detonate the warhead. How 'bout a MK19 40MM...? Should do a fairly credible job.

US fielded Recoiless Rifles in 57/90/106MM. The first two were shoulder fires. I can see the 57, but a 90MM...? Hope you have JO-JO the Apeman in you Platoon...

'lito, I must be an old fart. I know what "you know what" AND "you know where" mean...;-)
The younger guys don't need to know...,but if they get around Hoppe's wimmen will find out!

Semper Fi,

Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 20:18:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.6.15.20)

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 20:38:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.35)

They have a lifetime warranty that covers anything except failures,

apparently.Save your money and buy the Loopy.

Just got off the phone with them,and after they lost the d### scope

for three weeks,when they found it the verdict was
Carl Hendricks <loper@micron.net>
USA - Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 20:39:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.207.109.2)

My very first job in the Infantry was as a "90-Gunner". I walked into the barracks with my AWOL bag and somebody yelled, "Hey everybody! Come meet the new 90-gunner!" I carried it for about three months until I got promoted to "60-Gunner". Never met Jo-Jo.

I got to "expend all remaining ammunition" on a 90mm range once. By the time I was finished I tried to stand up and I couldn't get my ballance. It's a gun that kills at both ends and the blast is hard on the gunner too.
Kevin R. Mussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 21:15:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)

I have not had any problem with my Elite 4000 6X24, I have not had any problem with my Tasco SS10X42M either. I don't know what the original problem with the scope was that caused you to send it back in the first place but here are my thoughts. If you did check out the scope as you indicated I would tell them that and have them ship you a new scope as they evidently found the wrong one or they were the source of the bent tube, either way they should owe you a scope. That's my 2 cents.
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 22:40:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.217.215.1)

The 50cal AMAX's you want to get are the 2.560" ones. The 1st gen ones are .250" longer and won't stabilize no matter what you do. If you order sight unseen, make sure of the length.

The HTI book went out today to you. Brass will go Monday.
 

Tony <50buildr@bellsouth.net>
Murfreesboro, TN, USA - Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 23:16:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.214.113.27)

I'm gonna spend the winter makin' ammo so when the toy gets here, I'll be ready to shoot in!

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.ney>
USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 00:19:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.17)

I need some new recommendations here, I've got a set knee/elbow pads coming "Monica specials" that will take care of those two parts of my body just fine. That done, my concern is shifting towards something for the rest of my body that will put an extra layer between me and the foxtails and stickers. Was thinking of something like a burlap or codura apron to act as collect all and atleast take out a percentage of those damn things. Codura or Burlap might not even suffice and something like a piece of tanned leather from a welders apron or something, don't want to spend too much though.

Does anyone have any recommendations as to what materials they prefer or how to go about making something like this? Thinking about calling it my set of "Squirrel Chaps." Hmmm, just had a thought, perhaps I could make it out of tanned squirrel hides? Nevermind, that's too close to wearing a necklace of squirrel ears.

Feel free to email me or reply here, I'll check back later this evening and tomorrow.
 

B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
I can just hear those damn squirrels laughing at me in Cowpie, Ca, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 00:21:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.161.204.203)

Gents,

My new neck size bushings arrived from Redding today. For those interested, I should have some more data and 600 yard accuracy tests in the next couple weeks.

Anything in particular you gents want to know?

Seems like I "got smaller" than 106 MM all of a sudden. Know what I can do with the extra 99.5 MM?

Semper Fi,

Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 02:51:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.248.236)

I went to buy a pistola and three days later i am still amazed that even the F*ng gun shop made me feel like a damn criminal.
the conversation went something like this...
"why do you want to buy a semi auto? what do you need more than 6 shots for?"

I want to use it for plinking, target shooting and the like, dont really like revolvers. Plus i really like the fit of the HK, really comfy to shoot.

"Plinking? there is no good reason you need a full clip of 10. when you are target shooting all you need is 6 at the most. otherwise you will just be wasting bullets. do you have a criminal record?"

A criminal record? No.

"well there is no reason you need a semi auto for target shooting"

Look, do you want to make a $750 sale, or not?

"fine, i will start the background check, but there will be a 20% restocking fee if something comes up you havent told me."

You know what, nevermind. You sell all the revolvers you want and i will buy my semi auto somewhere else.
fucking jackass. Im getting all pissed off just thinking about it.
"you have a criminal record"....not yet. i will after i leap across this counter though, asshole.
The funny part is, this is the same place i bought my 700 with synthetic stock and heavy barrel.
just goes to show you, there are a-holes everywhere you go. Oh well, screw them, i will spend my money elsewhere.
I will have my new toy on the 24th after the 11 day wait. only 9 more days...
Jeffro <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
San Jo, ca, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 03:00:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 171.70.47.165)

Anyhow, I can pick up that aroma no matter how faint, I tend to put a generous amount of it through my bores after shooting and then come back to it later. It isn't an obnoxious smell at all. Some of those amonia laced solvents I have though are just down right disturbing. I'll use the amonia stuff to clear out the jacket material from my stainless JP barrel but I make damn certain that I don't intermix solvents, I jag the holy hell out of the barrel to remove any hint of the stuff from the bore before proceeding on to another cleaner. I usually do Hoppes for powder solvents till those come out clean, then I dry the bore really well and move to Barnes CR10 till they come out clean and dry the bore again, then I'll typically put a light coat of Hoppes in the bore the day after.
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Cowpie, Ca, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 04:05:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.161.204.203)

please make me feel better, I think I made a mistake !

For some reason I put my .50 Mc Millan M-88 into a for sale ad for some pistols I am selling. I am getting call´s every day, and my S-3 (read wife) is on me to sell the ugly thing.

It´s a "Seal" version M-88, with Parker Hale bipod, Leupold MKIV Ultra in 20 X with the glass etched Mil Dot reticle. Comes with a pelican case, and I am close to selling it for the equivalent of $ 4.850,--.

The rifle is 7 years old and has 470 rounds through it, which show´s you how often I get to shoot it.
 

Please release me from my pains !

t
torsten <7.62@lasercon.de>
cant make up my mind, to be or not to be, with a .50 in g3land - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:26:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.159.89.203)

In general after market add-on magazines are not a good idea because you have two manufacturers which have their own manufacturing tolerances etc. Still a good manufacturer should be able to produce a magazine fed rifle without any problems. In LEO environment only a few shots are shot in any operation so DM´s are not needed and they usually only increase the price tag without any relevant gains in other areas.

For military Scott told to get arty if many shots are needed. This is nice and dandy for USMC snipers and maybe others in the US forces who are allowed to call arty. In most other armies the snipers do not have arty or airforce strike options available due to their different status in the battle area. Those snipers may need a lot of personal firepower at times. Of course an assault rifle is better but usually you only carry your bolt action rifle and maybe a pistol. In those situations DM´s are very handy even though snipers should stay away from trouble.

BTW Sako 75 with DM´s CAN be topped at any time through the ejection port. I think this is a first but in this case you can have both a DM and top-up option at the same time. You can have a fixed floor plate too if you insist on having that.

I like DM´s but then again I am used to rifles where the mags work as they are supposed to work. Maybe some add-on´s for Rem700 are not so good.

Hexa
Hexa <juhola@luukku.com>
Helsinki, Finland - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:08:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.65.143.15)

NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE
To the citizens of the United States of America,
In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus to
govern
yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence,
effective today.
Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchial duties over
all
states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does
not
fancy. Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85%
of
you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your
borders)
will appoint a minister for America without the need for further elections.
Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire will be
circulated
next year to determine whether any of you noticed.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules
are
introduced with immediate effect:
1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.
Then
look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at
just
how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. Generally, you should raise your
vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary". Using the same
twenty
seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is
an
unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up "interspersed".
2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know
on your behalf.
3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents.
It
really isn't that hard.
4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as
the good guys.
5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The
Queen",
but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get
confused
and give up half way through.
6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind
of
football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good game.
The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders
may
have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will no longer
be
allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football. Initially, it
would be best if you played with the girls. It is a difficult game. Those
of
you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar
to
American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty
seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies). We are hoping to
get
together at least a US rugby sevens side by 2005.
7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons
if
they give you any merde. The 98.85% of you who were not aware that there is
a
world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The Russians have
never been the bad guys. "Merde" is French for "shit".
8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new
national holiday, but only in England. It will be called
"Indecisive Day".
9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for
your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand
what we mean.
10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.

Thank you for your cooperation.
ERII

Mark D <dougie@mill.co.uk>
London, UK - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:54:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 212.117.231.52)

I was stationed in Panama from 87-91 and our battalion traded their Dragons/Tows for 90mm RR for a couple reasons. First, wire guided systmes don't work out too well in the jungle and because we knew there would be fighting in a MOUT environment.

The Panamanian Defense Forces (PDF) had hardened their positions in the city with steel reinforced walls, heavy sandbagging inside (not visible from the outside mind you) and fighting positions with steel/concrete overhead cover. They also had some armor similar to LAVs.

The 90mms were extremely effective in the city. They were simple, effective, versatile and another big benefit was that you could carry ammo for it alot more easily that with a dragon. M203s obviously were a tremendous asset in MOUT.

In short, I think they are a great system which should never be scrapped.
Jeff <dog21@together.net>
VT, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:10:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.60.171.10)

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:21:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.74)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_mcmillan/20001116_xccmc_what_if_pr.shtml
 
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
Not as stupid as Gorewinkle thinks in the, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:55:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.14)

I suggest if you wish to annex the US, please consult this map.
http://www.millenicom.com/patriot/map.jpg

We will allow you to take all of the people responsible for that repugnant blue color seen in certain counties.
Submit a viable plan for prying the occupants mouths off the "teat" of the land and you can have them, lock, stock and barrel.

I propose a $5 (US dollar), one time, restocking fee to support your efforts to collect your wayward children.

OH, as for football... have you ever played "sand-lot football" we don't wear no 'stinking' pads. You should come over here and try it, perhaps you'll learn something (a lesson, for sure). I personally liked you English types better when you were known for "quiet desperation". This new whiny, smarmy tone has got to go. (I'm kidding , of course)
Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:14:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.20.190.1)

http://www.thestate.com/politics/docs/scelectors15.htm
 
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 18:47:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.57)

There's a great article you to pass on to those who are prone to inaction, or those who are prone to lots of verbal action and that's it. This guy makes a great statement and has good logic to back it up.
http://www.sierratimes.com/edjj111500.htm

As for me, TWO DAYS AND COUNTING.
Bravo - Patriots USA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic, formerly the great country, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 18:51:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)

I never heard about the 90 on snipers and suspect as you mention, the press probably pegged a guy taking potshots with an assault rifle a sniper. He must not have been that great a sniper if he was spotted that easily, but you never know.

We had studied PDF Order of Battle very hard and I don't recall seeing any sniper programs worth mentioning.

One thing was for sure, and I don't mean to sound arrogant, but our sniper program was top notch in the Battalion and it paid its way a thousand times over, both during the invasion and the countless operations that went on for the year or so prior to it and afterwards.

Everyone knew it too. Want to talk about an excellent return on a small investment, the BN Scout/Snipers were it.

And within a 6 months after all the operations ended, this outstanding unit of well trained guys was disbanded.

Absolutely unbelieveable. But then again, you were obviously in at one time so you know how those things happen.

What unit were you in anyway if you don't mind my asking?
 

Jeff
Jeff <dog21@together.net>
VT, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 19:37:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.60.171.10)

On this side of the pond Soccer is played by 'girly-boys' who lack
the fortitude to play real Football, and whose mommies carry them
to their games in mini-vans. Our Football-players drive American
cars and pickup-trucks with 5-liter+ V-8 engines that get 12mpg
and use British cars as hockey-pucks.

And while I'm on the subject of automobiles, why did you compare
our's to German vehicles? Why didn't you compare them to British
autos? Could it be that there are none left? Ah... but I remember
the Sunbeam, Vauxhall Victor, Morris, to name but a few. And how
about Joseph Lucas, the Prince of Darkness.

Mark- please take this as the jest it is meant to be! I own two
German cars- a 16V GLI and a completely restored 1969 Type1, and
love them both, but my real pride-and-joy is my new Dodge Dakota
5.9 R/T pickup. BTW- I have nothing against the English (except
their food and Labour Party)- my mother was born in Stokes-Newington.

Can an air-gun reach 5000 miles?
Alan

ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
PALISADE, COLORADO, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 20:19:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.169.77.140)

The institutions are under stress, but they have yet to fail. They must be allowed to work. This mess looks like its headed to the Supreme Court. If it does, my guess is that the Supremes will drop-kick Gore's ass into next week. If Bush gets in he's going to be mightily pissed. His legal reform agenda will disempower the trial lawyers who tried to usurp his presidency. Many things are yet to happen before worst-case scenarios are realized.

God willing, all this will blow over. Then we will make incremental improvements in the system.

One of the generals who commented on Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" stated; "Weapons are tools of ill omen. One is concerned lest they are used without due consideration." That man thought at his pay grade.
 
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 20:28:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.57)

I am useing this scope on my APS-2 SV airsoft rifle. This thing is awesome!

Thanks for your time!
Shrubba <Shrubba@excite.com>
MN, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 21:50:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.84.228.148)

Would anyone out there care to share an opinion on the annual shooting competition held out west by D&L Sports. What's it like? Is it good to go? Is it well organized and run? Would you go again? etc.
 

Kevin R. Mussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 22:58:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.46)

Try Creedmore Sports. They sell a heavy canvas jacket for about $90 that works very well. It's what I shot in competition for several years and it is definatly the most cost-effective solution. Its a good bit heaver and more rigid than the USMC, jacket, BTW.
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:05:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.33.22)

Try Creedmore Sports. They sell a heavy canvas jacket for about $90 that works very well. It's what I shot in competition for several years and it is definatly the most cost-effective solution. Its a good bit heaver and more rigid than the USMC, jacket, BTW.

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, USA - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:05:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.33.22)

WHEW, got that off my chest.

Mark D., good thing I thought your post was a joke.

I need a Bravo Brew, make that a keg!
 

Bolt, out
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 00:00:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.55.116)

Sarge
Sarge <garryrn@zianet.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 00:12:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.234.202.96)

Brack Wilson <info@starlightcases.com>
Pine Level, NC, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 00:16:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 165.247.148.4)

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment111600e.shtml

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 00:16:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.61)

"Teat?" "TEAT?" You calling the great state of Florida a "TEAT?" Actually, if anybody's mouths are stuck to anything down here, it's Algwhore's ass. HA!
 
 

Hoppes #9 -

OK, I gotta know for sure, the weekend's coming up and I want to be prepared -

Hoppes #9 Powder Solvent or Hoppes #9 Bench Rest?

Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
PALM TEAT COUNTY, FL, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 00:18:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.105.161)

http://opinionjournal.com/columnists/rbartley/

So read those carefully before getting any good ideas. The institutions will almost certainly hold. Have a little faith in the Founders.
 
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 00:20:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.61)

Straight #9, and you'll follow her anywhere!

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 00:50:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.12)

Welcome back Sarge! Hope everything is good in your new home. We gonna play "find Sarge" again? ;-)

Brack: I've got a bone to pick with you. My case is GREAT, and I love it, but I've come to the conclusion it's cursed. Every time I case up the rifle, the weather is nasty. Can you do some good mojo on it to relieve my problems? You got some mojo in desert camo? HA!

And when I got home, I had a half case of Federal Gold Medal Match brass on my doorstep! Thanks Masked Stranger! I *REALLY* appreciate it! Now to load that stuff up with some Varget. A true asset to the good guys, an another roll of tumms for the neo-commies out there!
Bravo - PatriotsUSA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Gonna tumble brass, and drink a Bravo Brew, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 01:25:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.216)

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 01:34:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.237.86)

The word "chad" should be removed from the dictionary. The country of Chad should have its name changed. All people with the name Chad or Chadwick should immediately have their names changed. If it wasn't for chads, this mess would be over. A hanging chad should be called a dingleberry, a pregnant chad should be called an accident, a chad on the floor should be called BALLOT TAMPERING. Find a better way, put the ballots out about a 1000 meters and if the idiots can hit it 1 out of a hundred shots, count it. That's as fair as what is going on now. Geeezzzzzz.

AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you and have a nice day.

Bolt, out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 01:51:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.54.105)

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 02:05:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.12)

Click on where myname is supposed to be and see if the link works. This is a hoot. Go DUBYA!!!!!!!!!
 
 

Felling mean as a wolverine with aids, BOLT, out!
 
 

PS: if is doesn't work, heres the address (http://www.dovewinds.com/dubya/)
http://www.dovewinds.com/dubya/ <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 02:50:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.54.105)

I have my Dad's old Rem 722, I believe identical to present short action 700. It extracts some of the cartridges all of the time and all of the catridges some of the time but not all of the cartridges all of the time. I've cleaned bolt and chamber with lots of eau de WD-40.

Any comments??

Thanks
Bob <http://www.catchem@inetone.net>
Beckley , West-By God-Virginia, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 03:51:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.118.53.168)

Yup, agree with 'lito. The regular #9 is the way to go...personally, it wasn't the dab behind the ears that got me...it was the faint trail of scent run down between the breasts...

On the other hand the old G.I Bore Cleaner with Benzine worked pretty well on me, too...

Semper Fi,

Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 05:09:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.249.15)

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 05:13:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.42)

I am thinking of getting a .50 BMG press,which is the better,the RCBS model or the new Hornady model,was looking at using it for large dies,ie benchrest type .338LM dies as well as .50BMG.

Chris
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
New Zealand - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 10:16:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 203.97.45.202)

CDC was being polite... WD-40 is VERY BAD for guns... the solvent dries and leaves a brown stickie residue that will gum up your favorite stick... wash it out with mineral spirites, or laquer thinner, and then use a good gun oil!

Chris...

I just ordered a 50 BMG, so I'm getting up to speed on this stuff, but I can yell you this much (after eleventeen thousand dollars in phone bills)... the Hornady press is made by RCBS, and is almost identical, except that the Hornady has a nifty-er (read "improved") way of doing the shell holder conversion, if going back and forth between 1.5x12 and 7/8x14 is important to you.
Send an e-mail to "On Target Shooting Supplies" at:

targets@nsis.com

His prices are less than anybodies (I checked), and the stuff gets dropped shipped right from Hornady... and better yet, he's a "Rosterfairian"... 'course shipping to a "Kiwi" could get steep.

Wes...
Bad puppy ;))

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Still bummed on the Fla thing, in, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 11:22:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.62)

Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
gettin ready for the weekend with hoppes #9, FL, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 11:25:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.105.168)

This is a common problem, and Remingtons have were critized for this "back when"... it's because the early extractor clip-ring was poorly designed, and wore out fairly qiuickly... it needs replacing.

Your gun uses the older "rivet" type, and a 'smith should charge about $25-30 to replace it. The replacements are better designed, and won't need replacing 'till nearly forever.

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 11:31:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.62)

Hey all this talk about romance and Hoppes! And all this time I thought is was spelled with an ER instead of an O.

Geez, number 9? Must me somekind of new strain.

As my unit 1SG always said "Men, be safe, use the appropriate MOPP level" (as they handed out the condoms for the weekend)

MOPP stands for "Mission Oriented Protective Posture" and it seemed pretty appropriate to me.

OK, I feel better now. I just had to say it.
 

Jeff <dog21@together.net>
VT, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 12:38:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.60.171.10)

Think about that for a second. Clinton divide us against ourselves. Its how he governs.

His propaganda machine is currently selling the notion that all the Bush areas contain majority populations who want to brain innocent people with hammers and base-ball bats or drag them behind their trucks.

If you blockade the cities, you have lost most rural people (starting with me) and made the city dwellers see you as someone to be treated as an enemy. That will include some of the guys on this board. You will be hung around the Republican's neck. In one bold stroke you will have reduced supporters of the Constitutional processes of the transfer of power to a fringe cult.

"God save me from my friends, I'll take care of my enemies myself."__ Patton

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 12:56:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.17)

Boltster; there ... there... Blaming Chad is like blaming a spoon for Rosie O'donnel.

God help us all.... Locked and loaded here in paradise. over and out!

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:02:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

First off its very well run and organized. Dave is a great and has some very fine range officers. He runs a strict and SAFE shoot.

Its a three day shoot that takes place about 45 miles north of Gillette Wyoming up near the Montana border. Its billed as the, "Test for both man and equiptment" and I think it is too(HA) The shoot is broken down into field courses and standards shooting. The first two days of shooting are the field courses.

You shoot two courses each day at two different locations. The elevation is around 4700ft. and the temperature is usually in the high 90s to 100s. You can use what ever you want to bring but you must be able to carry it with you to use it. The country is on the rugged side and the courses average a couple of miles in length.

The last two years you shot with a partner, one man shoots the long range targets and the other shoots the short range targets and pistol targets. The assult rifle targets are from 200 to 350yds and the long range targets are from 350 to 1200yds.

The course stress long range "FIRST" round hits. The target size is from 6" square dimonds to 14"x14" steel plates. There are also some 7"x14" plates hung both length way and side ways. As the range increases these become extremly difficult to hit in less than ideal coditions. Oh, did I mention the scoring....10 points per plate hit and a -20 points for each plate you miss!!!! You shoot twice and miss your down -40 points plus the 10 you didn't get for hitting it in the first place.

Two years ago on the first course we shot, it had rained the night before, and we couldn't tell where we were hitting and I missed targets I should have hit and we came off the course with 44 hits and 20 misses for a grand total of 40 points for the course!!! Many guys come off of the courses with a minus score!!

The third day is spent at his range and you shoot man on man competitions and off hand, kneeling and known distance shooting drills that stess speed and accuracy. Theres also a mover and then an egg shoot at 500yds.

He has had a bunch of complaints about it being to "Tough" and has considered breaking it into two divisions civilian and military to try to get more shooters. He would leave it the way it is for the military and lighten it up for the civilians. He's not sure what he will do at this point.

I have heard he is going to have a really big shoot next year and try to draw some more international shooters. The last two years it was won by a pair of professional shooters, Bennie Cooley and Michael Voigt. But the competition is always tough and hard fought down to the last day with less than a hunderd points seperating some of the top teams.

Its a tough shoot,but a lot of fun,you have know your equiptment and your gun. You shoot in all types of conditions. Up hill,down hill across canyons, up canyons, across big flats in all types of wind. You may have a "0" wind to a 20 mph wind on the same damn course!! It may be full value to half value on the same set of targets depending on the angle your shooting. It may bein your face through part of the course and behind you or tothe left or right on the next set of targets. Did I also mention that a lot of times your range finders won't work because of the range or terrain?? So you need your Mil-Dot master too, thank GOD for Bruce!!!

There is no stalking just shooting, each year the competition has gotten tougher and the ones who come, come to shoot and you meet some really nice guys both military and civilan who are always willing to help you out with what ever you need. I really enjoy it,but it is a ball buster if you aren't in shape. I hurt a knee this year and didn't get into as good of shape as I was in the past and I could really tell it. But then I'm 54 years old too and I can still do it so I'm sure you would have no trouble with it. Come on out next year and if you need any more in depth info please e.mail me!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:51:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)

The Florida Circurt Court has said that the Tuesday, 5:00 PM vote "S-T-A-N-D-S", and no hand counted, or late (read "chad challanged") votes will be accepted... (see Gore pout :-(((

... if we get the mail in vote, we OWN it! (Unless the creek rises)

'yote Bate...

Loved "... is like blaming a spoon for Rosie O'donnel"... great line to explain a PIG!

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Startin'to smile ;), in the good ol', USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:04:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.83)

In the Denver comPost this morning, it looks like prairie dog hunting on public land will be outlawed next year. However, poisoning is OK .........

Duman <steve_duey@hp.com>
Tree-Huggin', Colorado, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:25:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 156.153.255.250)

Be prepared to celebrate, but remember one of the most important virtues of sniping, patience.

The Shooter <kkonen@usa.net>
We got it right 6 years ago, God Bless TX, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:26:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.21.196.108)

If he does break it into 2 'divisions' of shooters... hopefully he will allow civies to 'opt into' the more challenging shoot. I guess he could all them:

Candy Assed Class
and
Hard Assed Class

Enjoy Gents.... gotta get outa here and back to work!

Ken :)
 

Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:27:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.39)

Ken: Candy assed class? How about old and broken down class?

On the 870 question: Search 870 in December of last year. A note on safetys: Don't trust ANY of them. Use the four rules everywhere and at all times. If you don't know the four rules, take SERIOUS training.
 
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 18:00:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.3.174)

If you chose to build or buy a social shotgun you cannot go wrong with the Remington 870.

Don't forget the choke part. e-mail me for details.

Ask yourself why though. What can any shotgun do better than a .223 carbine? Door breaching maybe. Otherwise what's a tactical shotgun for?

A shotgun kicks harder, loads slower, has less range, has less penetration, has lower magazine capacity and is heavier than a shorty AR.

My opinion is; Hunt with a shotgun fight with a rifle.

Then again, you know what they say about opinions.
Kevin R. Mussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 19:35:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)

CDC: I don't know what to make of you. I really don't. First off, it was me that posted the link. Call it like it is, I'm proud of my actions or I wouldn't perform them. I thought about it for well longer than a second. The problem isn't with the devision, it's what the devision IS. It's the party of "support me, I tell you you have to!" or the "self sufficient" victimized crowd, that Calhoun wrote about so eloquently. So you don't want to take action. That's fine, I can understand that. About 85% of the people didn't think the US was worth fighting over in the revolutionary war either. You tell us to have faith in the system, but the system SHOULD HAVE NO FAITH IN US. You got that right. The system (as explained by Jefferson, Hamilton, and Madison, as they spring to mind) was founded with the idea of PARTICIPATION. Gee. I wonder what THEY would do in our place right now. Probably nothing, right? Maybe preach to the choir some, maybe grumble and gripe, then pay their yearly tax tithe to the federalist state while hoping they aren't the next to die or be ruined? They didn't create a machine that would work perfectly regardless of the scum introduced into it. They knew that. They wrote about that. They told us what to watch out for. They DOCUMENTED it. So now that exactly the same things they warned about have come to bear, I hear you admonishing action, and telling me to trust the same government that has perpetuated attrocities on the citizenry and violating our rights and the Constitution almost literally on a daily basis. But I also hear you saying you don't trust it (the vote scams, post office, etc). So what gives? Should I sit on my couch and re-read Voltare, or just make lots of "pro-peace, please let me use my rights, but if you don't want to it's all right" stuff? I think you KNOW what Jefferson said was *REQUIRED* in this situation. Those guys thought WAY ABOVE their paygrade (Franklin was regarded as the smartest man in the known world at that time), and deserve to be listened to. Or at least, they deserve to have their teachings broadcast without hinderance. That is, only if you believe in the country as it was formed more than the communist manefesto. But I will make this offer. Since you and I apparently will not ever see eye to eye, I'm willing to go back into apolitical mode, if you do too. Unfortunately, I don't have the fortitude to withstand what I see without response. Consider it a character flaw. Oh, and as for Patton, we were his favorites. Had something to do with Hourah, Whoop! and being a school with live arty classes.

Patrick Henry [3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d ed. Philadelphia, 1836]: "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined."

Samuel Adams: "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

You will, of course, have to forgive me if I take their advice over yours.

Rant mode off
Bravo - PATRIOTS USA! <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic, about to split, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 19:35:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)

there are huge minority and ethnic immigrants of which many millions are here illegally with huge political agendas. yes we are a largely a country of immigrants, but it remains the right to vote is strictly a right of citizenship.

for example in florida all it takes to register to vote is simply "appearing to be a citizen." this is hugely open to fraud for anyone with a political agenda.

in california, which in a single state has millions of illegal immigrants adding to minority populations which are increasingly balkanizing ... they huge populations are being driven by enormous political agendas which are already siphoning off 30% of all revenues for emergency health, social safety net, and education. it is illegal for a registrar to ask for any proof of citizenship, let alone a drivers licence or even a green card (please laugh), and all that is required is a signature, followed later in a language they cant even read stating "under penalty of perjury"... wow ... big deal.

whole preceints of los angeles which contain millions of illegal minority populations submitted up to 27% by absentee ballots...this is so open to wide spread and massive fraud.. yet no one listens...

im a registered democrat, im no buchanan right winger... yet this cannot continue if we want to keep the right of citizenship to mean anything. THE RIGHT TO VOTE IS SOLELY THE RIGHT OF A CITIZEN.

if you want to just sit down and talk about dimples and pregnant chad... you lose ...everything.

christ... whatever happened to pride in proof of citizenship as a requirement to vote.
 

don <georges@silcom.com>
santa barbara, ca, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 19:49:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.71.192.251)

-- Paul Williams
 

Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 20:14:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.20.190.1)

God bless you Bravo, but if the good guys have friends like you.....
 
 
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 20:17:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.69)

before the ballots and registration talleys are destroyed, it should be demanded that statistical sampling take place to determine the extent of outright voter fraud, multiple voting, proper registration meeting basic citizenship requirement, and cleaning the registration roles of such things as "dead or nonexistent people."

voting requires us to do this thing right or it loses all meaning.
don <georges@silcom.com>
santa barbara, ca, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 20:18:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.71.192.251)

WWWWWWWWTTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Furious.

Out.

Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, VA, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 21:22:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 4.3.240.234)

One of our local rifle gurus, Steve Helsley, did an article in Tactical Shooter on his experience at D&L. Aside from the excellent description by Pat, I also recall that locating and identifying the targets was also part of the contest, since you weren't told exactly where they were.

The two-man teams were started at regular intervals (one hour?), with a range officer accompanying them to score them and keep them safe. I don't recall if completion time was part of the score, but if the team behind you caught up to you, you were disqualified.

Steve is ex-military, but he's in his 50's and has a bum knee. He retired this year. His partner, Mike Ball, is even older, I think. They went to D&L with the goal of beating at least one of the military teams. At the end of it, they had beaten all BUT one of the military teams. "Candy Ass" my ass, Ken!
Grasshopper <wd6cmu@earthlink.net>
Richmond, CA, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 21:23:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.22.22.2)

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 21:30:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.237.83)

CDC:
I guess another way to look at it is - let algore get all his wrangling out now.... then if he still loses... there's no room for crying afterward... at all...

Ken :)

Ken <HunterKR@Riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 21:36:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 4.3.240.234)

If they're not tampered with, Bush wins them.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 21:42:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.237.83)

Why do I want a scattergun when I already have a couple of AR15's
among others? BECAUSE IT'S THERE! BECAUSE I CAN!

BRAVO.... Why can't we just get along? (Sec. of State Rodney King)

Ready to go when needed.... ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
PALISADE, COLORADO, USA - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 23:19:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.169.64.16)

Let us see here; counting votes in mainly democratic counties, with mainly democratics looking at the ballots, the supreme court is mainly democrat and the sec of state is a republican. If it looks like shit and smells like shit, don't taste it!

Now feeling meaner that a RABID WOLVERINE WITH AIDS, BOLT over but not out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 00:28:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.54.195)

R Gilley <rockieg@earthlink.net>
Arlington, Texas, USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 00:39:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.11.197.167)

CDC: too bad you decided to skip it, there are questions I would like answered, as well as a deal to be made. I didn't call you a bootlicker either, that's your interpretation. As for the good guys, I follow in the footsteps of the founding fathers. That's good enough for me.

"They tell us, Sir, that we are weak -- unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the
next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed,
and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we
gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak, if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power." -- Patrick Henry (1736- 1799) in his famous "The War Inevitable" speech, March, 1775
Bravo - PATRIOTS USA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic, secure in it's peace and love of life, USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 00:46:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.235)

R Gilley <rockieg@earthlink.net>
Arlington, Texas, USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 00:46:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.11.197.167)

We went over the different problems with each a couple of months ago but I can't find the stuff. I know movers and bipods don't work good unless you trap, tripods that swivel will work but thats just something else to hump. Are the bags the better option?

Humor me, trying to calm down here!

Needing a valium and a Bravo Brew, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 00:50:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.54.195)

The Commie Bastards sre going to any lenght to get over on us.

I'm with Ken.......WTF!!!!

Let the two candidates pick winners in tomorrows game between Florida Secondrate University Criminoles (FSU) and the Florida Gators.

ah hell, Moe, you bring up some Gators from the glades, the candidate that can wrastle one of 'em to the death gets the office.
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Panama City, Fl., USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 01:46:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.74.2)

Totaly Pissed the (*^^(& off with GORE and company,

John McGrath
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

John McGrath <jkmcgrath@home.com>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 01:49:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.255.84)

I will offer a new set of 6 color desert camos size XL top and L/L pants to the Rosterferian that can guess the DAY/DATE that this mess is over, they call the game and a president is CONFIRMED.

Closest without going over wins. Email me with your guess by Monday, November 20 at 14:00 eastern. I will use the day/date that MSNBC announces it since that is all they will be doing until then. IF there is a tie guess, I'll use the time on the email so keep a copy of my reply for safe keeping.

Not feeling better but feeling benevolent, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 01:58:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.54.195)

I advocate watching carefully and engaging your brain.

By the way, I read Voltaire while living in a cabin in Colorado. Didn't have a couch. Hell, didn't even have electricity. Used to cut the heads off quail with a Remington 541S with a 3X9 Zeiss. Draw a bead then whistle to get 'em to stop moving their heads. Good clean fun.
 
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 02:06:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.65)

I invented gators - Alghwore
 
 

OK, time for some levity. I have had a bitchy week.
 

http://www.tvdance.com/bush-gore
 

CRANK UP THE VOLUME!

Moe
 

Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Mmmmmmmmmmm! That Hoppes Smells Goooooood!, FL, USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 03:01:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.28)

That picture is totally disgusting and bordering on YUCKY! That's your senator you lucky New Yorkers. Glad she didn't pick NC!
 

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 03:04:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.54.195)

Hmmmmm.....(putting on Great Karnac hat)

Anyone else think this is looking more and more like the OJ trial (same late-night experts, same twists and turns and deception)?

Here's a preview of the this weekend: Lieberman loads up a White Bronco with Gore in the back in an attempt to haul the absentee ballots out of state on a slow speed police chase. Hey...don't think this isn't going to happen!

This won't be over 'till its over.

Back to the question: My guess is Jan. 5 when the electoral vote is actually confirmed by the house. Even then some last minute shenannigans can occur.

I won't be totally convinced as to the winner until Jan 20 and see who takes the oath. (Thought of Gore placing hand on Bible for oath makes me want to power vomit)

Thats my guess.

Out
 

Doug <dmorisoli@worldnet.att.net>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 04:26:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.78.214.19)

John: Article II, section 1 was ammended by the 12th amendment, which was then amended by the 20th. I'll make exerpts for the sake of berevity.
"The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for a President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds the states and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice." Now for the tricky part. Amendment 12 was also superseded by Amendment 20. From that we get "And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President". The interesting thing is that if it gets this far, (far enough for the congress to declare a president) then by law, the loser becomes the vice president. I.E. you would have a GW president - algor vice president whitehouse.

CDC: maybe I misunderstood "The institutions are under stress, but they have yet to fail. They must be allowed to work", but that sounded to me like "just trust the government, it'll be OK". Our line of defense? Oh yeah, I remember that. They violated that years ago. Nobody cared then either.

Follow the steps.

Mark Twain: "A newspaper is not just for reporting the news, it's to get people mad enough to do something about it."
Gandhi: "You may think your actions are meaningless and that they won't help, but that is no excuse, you must still act."
Thomas Jefferson, 1821: "...the Federal Judiciary; an irresponsible body (for impeachment is scarcely a scare-crow), working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little to-day and a little to-morrow, and advancing it's noiseless step like a thief, over the field of jurisdiction, until all shall be usurped from the States, and the government of all be consolidated into one. ...when all government... in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the centre of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated."

The offer is still valid
Bravo - PATRIOTS USA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
looking for the banana republic to split, USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 05:47:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.248)

First of all I'd like to state that I'm an Irishman, not a statesman, so bear with me!!
 

This deconstructionist ideology many politicians and disinformed (not misinformed, these people don't wanna know) citizens have adopted the past 8 years is in full view at this spectacle in the Sunshine State. It's right in front of our eyes and no one in the press seems to have the cajones to inform 'the people' of what is taking place. Where did this country's backbone go? When did the history of how and why this great nation came into existence take it in the ass?? When did this society become all about 'me', when not too long ago it was said 'not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country'??

What in the hell is the 'will of the people'?? Who's will???!!! Isn't that what the laws that these pols are stomping at the judicial level are supposed to be?? Laws voted on and passed by representatives of 'the people'. That is why we are not a true democracy. We aren't supposed to be ruled by 'the will of the people' because that just doesn't work out, mob rules is what I call it. We are a representative republic who elect officials, representatives, to represent the 'will of the people' at the township, city, county, state, and federal levels of government. They represent us, not individually, but as a whole to see that balance is held within their jurisdiction and in their respective governmental function. This isn't about the 'will of the people', it's about the 'will of Algore for President', and I will never follow his example of leadership. The Constitution doesn't mean squat to these people, I can't believe 'the people' do not understand how integral this corruption of the soul of the United States of America will affect them for the rest of their god-given lives. They are using this sacred and treasured document and life force of this country as ass wipe, and if they get away with disillusioning the American People as they have the American Press, we are in for another 1860-1865. We are screwing with states rights AGAIN, and the subjugation Florida's state laws have been, well, subjected to, will be seen in some minds as a precedent that state laws don't matter. If you don't agree with the law, sue til' ya find someone that does. That is our right to do so, but it isn't to be used in this instance, to gain power over 'the people'.

They wanna count ballots, not votes. The votes have been counted. Fuck the people if you didn't punch the right hole, you had ample chance to change your vote during the election. And I don't wanna hear any more on these 'chads'. Swinging, hanging, pregnant, if it's not punched thru clearly so the machine could read the vote, IT'S AN INVALID BALLOT!!!! Change the system for the next election if ya don't like it, you voted on it, you approved it. Maybe not YOU personally, but the 'will of the people' approved it. Everybody would like to think that their vote would count, and I sympathize with that, but if you are too stupid to accomplish this intellectual feat called a punch-card, then kiss my ass!! If you're busy playing connect the frigging dots instead of reading the instructions and taking heed to the warnings in the booth that tell ya "if ya fuck up, yer ballot don't count, eh" then I don't want to hear it!! Head for Cuba if ya don't like it!! Their elections are fairly clear-cut, and I'm sure the ballots are REAL easy to read. Say hola to Elian for us. Hell I bet HE would've understood that ballot.

This is why I swear if my future kids wouldn't end up socially retarded, I'd teach em all at home myself. This is the result of years of historical revision at it's finest. People are ignint.
And it seems to be the trend.......
 

later kids
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 06:47:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.28)

Guys ya know what...............Gore has found away to throw out the Military overseas votes over a 1000 of them!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because some of them are missing postmarks which the Navy said is common with mail from them because of a varitey of reasons. Now the nation wide plea Gore made to democratic (what an auximoron) lawyers for help is clear why he wanted it. They have posted laywers in each location counting the overseas ballots and are challenging the signitures on them. These democrates really are a disgrace to this great nation of ours. Yes I am military and yes I know of fellow servicemen that are democrates and I remind them everytime they open thier mouth about the hardships we face from the dismantling of great military.

The news meadia is a disgrace also. With holding news from the people. On msnbc's website you can read about the overseas ballots but not on the television coverge which the MAJORITY of US CITIZENS rely on for thier information.

*#%@ OUT!!!!!!
McGrath
John McGrath <jkmcgrath@home.com>
Springfield, Missouri, USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 12:25:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.255.84)

And a bunch of lawyers are trying real hard to slick their way into the White House under the noses of a supposedly soverign people. There they expect to bypass the Legislature and rule (notice I didn't say 'govern') by executive order and court action.

As Gore said, "You ain't seen nothing yet."
 
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 14:35:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.17)

michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
San Jose, CA, USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 15:49:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.192.208.6)

I have decided on two sets of binos; one for field/stalking and one for from observation in general. I don't want to ever have to buy another set so these will have to do me until I take that final dirt nap.

The IOR's are nice and the PX prices are great but from what research I have done they are really heavy versus some of the more name brand sets.

Also, for field work/stalk, do you really need a mildot if you have a mildot scope?

Getting retinally challenged, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 16:10:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.55.22)

I can't believe that I got away with my previous post unscathed. Damn! With your attention focused so hard on this non-election I could have posted anything and gotten away with it.

Heads up people, watch your lanes.
Kevin R. Mussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Cllifton Springs, New York, USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 17:55:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.195.28)

IMHO the plain Jane 870 Mag is the most versatile shotgun on the market for quality, price and aftermarket goodies. Nuff said.

On the house cleaning tools we may differ. I live in a "neighborhood" unfortunately and all the windows and stuff like that make me nervous using a rifle caliber. With 8 rounds of number 9 bird shot and an 18" barrel 870 beside the bed I don't really worry about shooting through the windows and walls into my neighbors den. Might hit his case of Bravo brews and really piss him off.

I remain nervous about using any semi-auto weapon for self defense anyway. Have never had my Model 19 or 870 jamb. Also having one under in the chamber without powder in it that pops the cap and doesn't eject kinda makes me pucker also.

If 6 or 8 shots doesn't take care of the problem I deserve what I get anyway. This year I would really like to take a tactical pistol and shotgun course but alas, I think daughter has decided to stay in college. The match in September and having to buy all the accutriments will take all available funds.

Trying to calm down, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 18:27:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.55.22)

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 19:05:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.84)

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 19:08:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.84)

I carry a Mossberg 500A persuader 20" for a truck gun and home defense/offense loaded with 8rds federal tactical #4 buck reduced recoil.I live in a small frame house with a wife and two small children and am not interested in taking one of them out with a rifle round zinging through the walls.Colateral damage is tantamount in an urban environment. Test some household building materials like sheetrock or paneling or pine 2x4's.It takes a LOT of layers to even slow down a centerfire rifle round of any caliber.Part of my shooting range uses creosote phone poles for support and .223 or .308 will easily exit them at 30 yards.Would I shoot anything knowing my family is downrange?Not bloody likely(for you Brit's).Have I seen boolets swap direction in wood?Absolutely.To each his own but make mine a "gauge"Oh yea....there ain't nothing wrong with an 870.Kevlar may stop 12 ga but they will think that Arnold Swarzneggar just hit them in the chest with a 4 pound hammer,and will certainly take the fight out of most folks.Shoot 'em....close...shoot 'em some more.
BruceE <bgenlvtex@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 19:23:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.59)

As for shotguns: I see no need for one. 55's don't go through house materials well, and my family will be behind me at all times in case of a "bad time". But that's due to where I live and the area I live in. Looking out my front window, I've got a good line of sight. This next 5.56 will have a "permanently attached" flash hider on a 14.5" barrel. No bayo lug though, to keep the atf from making ME the next attrocity.

I'll second my good friend Michael on the IOR's. I traded Mike Miller for a few minutes to try his IORs against mine. I liked his better, and so did he ;-) I like the idea of the graticule in them, but unsupported I shake too much with my 7's to range accurately with them. Maybe a 6X. They're a good bino! And I'll also agree with your SIG statements. Very boring pistols. They work every time and you hit what you aim at. The double action is probably the smoothest I've ever felt as factory stock, but I couldn't get used to it. On my list of pistols to try is the Sig P-210.

JR: so what did you really mean? HA! That's why we're a representative republic, not a democracy. If we were still following the founding fathers Constitution, we couldn't vote for senators, and states rights would be stronger. As for homeschooling, you think your kids will be any more socially adept once they come home and tell you that you're trying to kill them by having arms and ammo in the house? The communists have a firm entrenchment in education. Remember, one of the planks of the communist manefesto is "free education". But the communists perfected the system with free "re-education", as an indoctrination source, which excludes "unnecessary" subjects such as history and government. Ignorance is their friend. Patriotism is ours.
Bravo - Patriots USA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic, once known as the great, USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 20:01:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.224)

Range finders in bino's. - I know I have a hard enough time keeping a rifle and scope still enough to range with the mildots, the least little shake on my spotting scope makes the dots look like dancing blobs. I get the feeling here that even in a supported position, bino's with range finders are tough to use.

We have IR detection and non-IR. – Is this a useful feature or something else to go wrong?

We have 8, 7 and 10 power. – For stalking and spying would the 10 power be overkill or are you just trying to check out the landscape for the boogy man or movement?

For Long Range observation. – Is the 10x40 the way to go or the 10x50?

I know this is getting tedious but would rather bore you than break my billfold for nothing. I still have a set of 30 year old Bell and Howells if that tells you anything.

A bino-challenged Bolt, OUT!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 20:33:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.55.22)

You guys have got to start looking at the bright side of algore as Fearless Leader.
For instance: he's bound to have a positive - if temporary - effect upon some parts of our economy!

Now, if I were a Louis Rukeyser Elf, I'd be suggesting that you consider all the industries that will temporarily gain additional income as they struggle to meet consumer demand.
For instance- Bravo has mentioned a gigantic ammunition sales upswing.

Now, how are all these enemies of our new and glorious algore led socialist society going to STORE all that ammunition?

RIGHT! They need PLUMBING SUPPLIES !
Any company manufacturing 6" PVC schedule 40 tube, end caps & PVC glue will experience growth.
Trucking companies hauling it from the factory to the plumbing supply stores will also see quarterly increases due to demand for PVC products.

Shovels will be in demand - and that means some steel and wood supply industries along with hardware store sales increases.

Crude Oil Demand Up:
Last I heard, we need crude oil to manufacture PVC and cosmolene; gasoline and diesel oil for transport.

algore and the environment.
All that digging aerates the topsoil.
Thousands- if not millions- of PVC cache tubes will be buried by people around this vast country.

The Printing Industry:
Software that allows printing double byte fonts will be in demand as people in Amerika struggle to learn Chinese.

Little Red Books will need to be printed in order to properly glorify our Fearless Leader.
Don't forget gigantic posters with the likeness of our Fearless Leader.
More paper products and more ink in demand; it all needs transport.

An Exchange of Ideas:
The American public will learn new customs and vocabulary as we learn the true meaning of term "to kowtow". For example: "Our President kowtows to a hostile and dangerous foreign government."

Foreign Trade:
We send the Peoples Republic of China all our money and they send us manufactured goods once made in our country.

Well, OK.
We ALREADY do that.

Actually, the increase in trade will occur mostly with those Buddhist monks and Communists that contribute most to algore's personal economy- and those of his cronies.

They WILL need to store and spend all that extra cash SOMEWHERE.

I fully expect algore to do to the USA what Al Capone did to Chicago, Illinois in the 1930s.

Last but not least:
algore is only President so long as Comrade Hillary allows him to be President!

Now, discuss amongst yourselves.

If you need further economic guidance, I suggest you contact Louis Rukeyser c/o www.pbs.org.

I'll get back in my foxhole and be quiet now.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Number 6 <nombre_6@yahoo.com>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 22:24:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 157.178.1.101)

Ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."

870 note: I've never shot full-house loads from a 14" bbl. Us guys in "candy-ass class" don't care to.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 22:41:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.56)

Marc <onesonek@hotmail.com>
Pa, USA - Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 22:57:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.20.71.128)

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