Sniper Country Duty Roster

Sniper Country Duty Roster

November 10, 2000 - November 18, 2000

Link to the legality of these morons challenging the ballot.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment110900d.shtml

I, for one, don't doubt that the democrats dominate the dumb-ass vote.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 01:48:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.237.110)

AR-50 riffles???

Anyone of youz bums have any knowledge of the "AR-50" riffle.

I saw one briefly at my dealers today... he had ordered for some other guy.
Looked beautiful... all 42+ pounds of it... my heart's still going pitty-pat!!

I definitly could live with one of those puppies in my house:))

Youz guys got any personal feedback?... OK, I'll take rumors!

Dean M. (Trigger 50)... You out there lurking. Lemme know what you think of them.

------------------------------------------

I made a copy of the Florida ballot off the internet, and gave it to my son (who is 8!)... and did a "If you had to pick "gore", which dot would you color?"... by my wrist watch, it took him four seconds to get it right!

I had a friend that said "All food should come in cans... that way, people that are too stupid to use a can opener, won't live long enough to breed!"

He called it "Social Darwinism!"

Why should adults that have the mental skills of a 4 year old, even be in the election process at all...
(OK Bravo... I know it's constitutional).
... but then if they are too stupid to punch a hole in a ballot, what bit of political knowledge to they posess that makes them fit to help decide how the country should be run???
None... So make the ballots like a kiddie maze on the place mats at "Dutchess" or "Big Boy"... and if the voter can figure it out, they are smart enough to vote.

Got ma' 10mm smokin' and I'm ready to go back to Robs bunch, and get whipped again ;))

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 02:01:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.85)

'Lito: it's not a question of Constitutionality. It's a matter of common sense. The voting observers are required to assist if need be. If I were a parapalegic, and I rolled into the polling station in my wheelchair, they would be required to assist me in filling out my ballot to my contentment. If I screw up my ballot, they're required to trade me out a new one (upon request). If I'm too stupid to punch the hole, they're required to help (upon request). "Excuse me, but I'm too stupid to figure out how to punch this hole, could you show me which end of this thing to stick in that hole? Oh, and what's the name of that communist guy again?". If I don't understand how to fill it out, they're required to educate me. Anything short of this is an offense for which they can, should, and would be arrested. As for my son, he voted twice this election. Once with my wife and once with me. But to keep him intellectually honest, only Daddy let him punch the holes. It was interesting the talk we had about the "bad man" that was trying to be a bully and take everything away from us. Why is it that our kids can see what adults can't? Are they that brilliant (yeah!) or are the others that incredibly stupid? Never mind, I know the answer to that one, and it involves canned food and social Darwinism. I'm no elitist, but I will concede that there are several gene pools out there that could use a healthy dose of chlorine.

BTW: Bush's camp have grown a backbone. They now are on record as saying that if algor doesn't concede the race, they will protest the voting fraud in five different states. And it's documented. They'll win. Nixon had a real reason to question the ballot count, but didn't "for the good of the country". Too bad algor couldn't take a lesson.
Bravo - Patriots USA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
LET IT START HERE!, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 02:26:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.244)

Bravo-Dude-ski...
Now I gotta beat up on you.
I wasn't talking about parapalegics, quadrapalegics, or any other kinde of "?palegics"... or blind guys, or wheeled chaired guys... or even guys that say "Hey lady, I want to vote for freddie, but can't figure this out"... I got no problem with them.

I got a problem with the dingleberrys that vote, and go home, and the next day, when their guy looses, then jumps up and says, "Not fair, I punched the wrong hole, cuz I didn't understand it!".

I voted for (you know who), and now, I can't remember what line the switch thing was on... how does somebody remember several days later, which dot they punched?? Cuz some slickster "TELLS them what to say"!

'lito

Pablitoi <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 02:57:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.85)

Howdy folks,

this presidential erection has given me a softie, my gut is tellin me Bush has it, but those goddamn democraps are bound to screw us over, I only have one word for it, and it's not nice.

Darren, the only way you can get an 11.25" twist in a .308 is if I get every autograph from the Raiders, and some of the A's. Maybe a helmet would be nice. LOL!!!! Oh, I mean, I'm serious!! heheheh...hope to see ya out here, I'll keep my eye out for ya

I think I can get H-S to go standard on 11.25 twists, gimme some time, let me know if this is the real shit. Ballistically 168's and above it is no contest, IMHO.

Pat, is lock stock and barrel fairly competetive for reloading equip?? I've heard I can go the same for less elsewhere............

I have about 40 45" 50 cals to make here within a few weeks, I may not keep up with the email as fast as you'd hope, but I'll do my best.

PeteR:

talked to my dad this week, says the pheasants are lousy East River, he's really rubbin' it in

check ya later

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 02:58:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.34.14.14)

I believe the worst of us could read and punch out the right hole in that ballot from 100 meters. Looks like someone from Florida could do it with a pencil from close.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 04:03:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

Just checked the news,Isee the democrats continue to be the main source of public embarrasment to a great many of those capable of self thought,God do these sheep ever go away?
Rabon <fairchase@iwon.com>
Alaska, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 04:06:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.165.151.181)

All,

Well I got one blue print for a .50. It was semi auto though. What I may do is re-design the Weatherby Mark V action. I intend to enlarge it to accomadte the .50, this is a proven design. I prefer to work with a bolt gun. Anyway if any of you have any blue prints that detail measurements and dimentions please let me know.

Bad Karma
Bad Karma <jwhiteii56@hotmaI.com>
USA? - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 04:10:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.170.184.211)

Rabon: sheep don't go away naturally, but a predator takes many out at once. Oh, and while we're on this parallel, sheep are so incredibly stupid that they will voluntarily ruin their own habitat, making their area unlivable for all animals except predators. Sound like any country you can think of?

Patron 'Lito: we're shooting at the same target here, really. My point was that the system is set up to handle everyone, regardless of disability, physical or mental. What we have now is a source of mentally substandard individuals that can't admit that they're stupid at the time, and look for someone to blame it on later. Egos are evil things in some people, notably the condescending mental midgetry.
Bravo - Patriots USA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
LET IT BEGIN HERE!, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 04:18:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.244)

Slugboy: What kind of jungle did you operate in? Second growth, triple canopy or something different? You mentioned that "Country Snipers infiltrated to positions on main tracks/roads at night." And you said that, "Snipers then lay up at road sides in order to gain maximum view forwards." Does that mean that the opfor didn't patrol those roads at night? They didn't set ambushes? Did you have intelligence to indicate that your operational security was unlikely to be comprimised by moving on tracks? As you know, there's often a trade-off between ease of movement and risk. That type of movement sounds risky. Do you have any comments? Why was the jungle so difficult to move through? (Any of you guys who haven't trained in the jungle should hold the obvious comments. It ain't like Tarzan movies.)

At what ranges did you observe opposition forces and engage targets? Was your rifle capable of neutralizing the enemy's armored personnel carriers under the conditions you expected to engage them? Were they track vehicles or rubber tire?

You said that, in the event of an enemy assault, you were tasked to engage the enemy from the rear. I would assume that your primary means of doing so would be to direct mortar fire onto their positions. Is that correct? Did you think that you had enough mortars at your disposal to repel such an attack? Were their expected lines of communication and staging areas obvious enough that you were able to pre-plot your target areas? Would they be forced to concentrate in small areas for an attack?

Again, if you are unable to answer these questions, we understand.

Pablo, Bravo, I understand that it has been ruled on so there is that all-important precedent. I posted the link. Here it is again.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment110900d.shtml

(Disclaimer: All I know about the law is that, except for Old Dog, I can't stand lawyers.)

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 04:38:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.89)

Just checked the news, I see the Democrats(a continual source of public embarrassment to many of us) and their band of followers(quite a bit like sheep)have now acquired the skills of greedy attorneys to
deliever unto us another helping of,you guessed it: More public embarrassment. God do these people ever go away?
If you are incapable of answering a multiple choice question, perhaps you should ask your mother to chaparone and assist you,if the stress is to great bring your analyst along,between the bunch of you,maybe you can figure out a simple ballot, if you still can't get it:Apply to the democratic party their always looking for this level of competence
good night

Rabon <fairchase@iwon.com>
Alaska, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 04:46:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.165.151.181)

Hey guys,
Would anyone be able to help me, im considering purchasing a GPS want quality and prefer something thats waterproof. Thanks for any help and keep the shots long.
Ps: i know the 08 is great but does any one else love the 7mag?
Marc <onesonek@hotmail.com>
Pa, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 04:53:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.20.71.177)

JR@H-S
I just sent an email to your hotmail. If the BS in Washington keeps up I may need to send more money to rush my HTR 308. The way things are headed we could be close to Civil War!! That is if Gore pulls this election out of his ASS! Just how pro-gun is Bush? Can he really undo the harm that has already been done? I sure hope he(Bush) will live up to my expectations! Daren
Daren Yancey <darenyancey@hotmail.com>
Idaho, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 05:50:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.141.169.8)

Gentlemen, as you all have, been keeping track of the debacle, I remember a saying once that an owner of the company I worked for said about his anebriated son.
Thought it quite nicely fit the bill, for what we have been witness to.
We were having a company wide open house, all our customers were invited.
The owners son, was several sheets into the wind, and was taking some customers on "a tour", of our establishment.
Upon seeing said son, in this condition, slurring speech and in general impressing NO one, the father said within my hearing distance to a couple of other customers he had known well for many years.
"There goes a prime example of why some animals eat their young!".
I think this same comment applies to our illustrious Democratic party, it fits so well.
A house divided against itself cannot stand............I fear we are already past this point.
Sorry for the rather off topic post, but after reading some of yours, I felt it fit rather well.
Pray for the country we so dearly love.........God knows we need it.
Two Shoes
hadagutfullintexas
Terry <TLS8323@CS.COM>
USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 06:34:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.29)

It astounded me how Jesse Jackson was able to respond and get down to Florida faster than a quick action response team can get to an airport when there is a plane hi-jacking.

NAACP, Jesse Jackson, James Carvel, and the rest of the attack dogs, it's no wonder these people are often considered the enemy. They don't know how to act with dignity or honor.

I'll try to go out shooting here tomorrow or over the weekend so in my next post I can talk about something other than politics and the "CryBaby Party."
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Cowpie, Ca, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 07:12:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.161.204.203)

Hey, guys, we need some comic relief. I saw this poster in Munich some years ago and finally found a copy locally. It made me chuckle and is vaguely sniper-related. See if it tickles your funny-bone. LINK
Grasshopper <wd6cmu@earthlink.net>
Richmond, CA, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 07:13:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.221.31)

Mista' Slug Boy,

Nice posts again!

How about some performance info on your duty ammo, what do you chaps shoot/carry for the .338/416 Lapua AI's - FMJ, API, other?
Field performance of ammo on static and hard targets?

Rabon,

Democrats as Sheep????? now don't go slurring the West Virginny State animal! Plus you can kill'em and eat em (sheep that is) and they are awful tasty.

Democrats - old - stringy - taste like Geritol Gaaaaaaaaahski

JR,

On top of ALL the political turmoil you have to bring up (taunt me) ringnecks again! :-) Hmmmmmm oven baked cackle chicken with roasted taters & ham n green beans.

********************************************************************

Folks- In spite of all the recent Y2KPOLLY CRAPSKI -

PLEASE REMEMBER ALL THE VETERANS WHO DIED, OR WERE MAIMED, TO KEEP US FREE AND ABLE TO BITCH ABOUT WHAT WE DON'T LIKE. God Bless them!

********************************************************************

Chao!

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:31:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.49)

All: HAPPY 225th Marines!

Today is the Marine Corps Birthday! Semper Fi!

Ken :)

Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, VA, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:02:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)

What do you call a Gore supporter who can't read or write?

A "Gore-on"

*:-0

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:14:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.62)

"Help me Doctor, I see STUPID people ..... everywhere all the time!"
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:39:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

Let's let people who are unable to find their ass with both hands pick the president. To those Dade County retards we could add the faculties of Ivy League universities and the editorial board of The New York Times. All three came to the same conclusion.

What's that tell you?

Do you suppose changing the term 'fool-proof' to 'democrat-proof' would be fair to fools?

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:50:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.58)

CDC,
I think that democrat-proof refers to something that can't be overturned in a court decision.

The Shooter <kkonen@usa.net>
God Bless TX, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:17:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.21.196.108)

First, I'd like to thank the people who will respond to my questions.
And thanks for the wealth of knowledge and this site that adheres us pro gunners together.
I am personnaly an M16 guy. I know, boo hiss hiss. I recently am the owner of a Steyr scout rifle in .308. Please bear with the seemingly ignorant questions.
Questions:
1. I know .308 and 7.62 are not identical, Is it bad to shoot 7.62X51 military through my rifle?
2. How do I break in/clean the barrel?
3. Weapon system not negotiable, is the 6X40 Springfield Govt scope a viable option? The scout scope it came with is not what I need for longer range (more than 200M) shooting. Without gouging my wallet, what other good scopes exist. I have some use with the Govt model with outstanding success.
4. What rings should I use?
5. Moly, Fail safe, etc. I am used to using one type of factory ammo and sticking to it religously for consistancy sake. What ammo is viable? What should I stay clear of?

Thanks again for your time and knowledge in regards to my situation. I also appoligize for any spelling errors. I am a USAF combat rifle instructor, not a literature major.

Charlie Mike (Continue Mission)

Ray
Ray <iamdangerclose@cs.com>
Las Vegas, NV, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:36:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.199.154)

I am considering buying a leatherwood scope form navy arms. i was wondering about the reliability of the scope and whether or not it works as advertised. If any one could give me the high and low points of the scope it would be most appreciated. Thanks, PAUL
Paul Lauer <pshooter45@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:18:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 141.139.60.210)

Happy 225th to my brothers and sisters.

Long live the United States, and success to the MARINES!
Mark <markj12pct@aol.com>
Ohio, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:27:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.199.33)

BRAVO:

I hear what you are saying about the Whitman incident. And I must always not try to speak as an know it all, particullarly on incidents I wasn't at.

But, what I read about that incident, was that it was guys with hunting rifles (those nasty "civilians..") who made any contribution to suppressing Whitman. The police apparantly only had pistols and shotguns.

And maybe a fully trained sniper team would have outmatched Whitman by a longshot, but, thats the name of the game. Any time you have a guy gunning down civilians with even basic military/hunting skills, its pretty serious.

Also, a trained sniper team will be thinking perhaps a bit more about other issues, such as "where can I shoot from that provides an adequate backstop against my round to avoid collateral damage etc." than the average guy with a patrol rifle.

I see your point and respect it. Lot's of LEA's issue "patrol rifles" to their patrol units now and that might have saved the day.

However, the Whitman incident was one popular incident which did lead to the evolution of police snipers. There have obviously been several more incidents where they have been highly beneficial to police/public safety.

And while I have strong feelings about Ruby Ridge, that is the exception to the rule and not the norm. Not that its excusable in any way, shape or form.

I think LTC Plasters book, the Ultimate Sniper has a section about this incident.

Keep those beers a brewing! See you around!

Jeff
Jeff <dog21@together.net>
VT, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:46:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.91.44.194)

I am possibly in the market for a new rifle, had to part with my Rem. 700 VS-SF(P) / Leopold Tactical 4.5-14X40 about a year ago and am jonesing for a new rig.

Probably will get an identical scope the rifle is the only question

Choices are Rem. PSS or Rem. LTR i can get either for $699

First off is this a good price for these rifles?

Secondly which would you recommend?

I understand the velocity lost by the 20" over 26" barrell is negible with .308

Understanding manufacturing variables in a production rifle which "should" be more accurate?

Thank you all
Geoff
Geoff <sgtgeo@hotmail.com>
Raleigh, NC, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:53:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.86.252.33)

Ray: First off, the predictable M-16 boo hiss hiss. Now then, I shoot 7.62 NATO, not 308, but that's for my rifle which is built for such. A bolt gun can shoot both. The major differences are in powder burn rate and chamber pressure, although a 7.62 is proofed to take thousands of 308's. In other words, have a blast. If it chambers, shoot it. As for break in of the barrel, I clean 'em. After I shoot 'em LOL. Gale McMillan prevented me from doing any of that, and I'm still perfectly happy. As for the 6X40, I have no personal experience. But my money still goes to Lupita. Rings would be determined by the bases, but there are lots of good options. I use the ARMS #22's because I can go from scope to iron sights in about 5 seconds. No moly. I don't purchase my ammo, but I trust Mike in spades, and when he says Black Hills is good, that's what I would bank on. USAF in Vegas? That would be Nellis, right? How about some good dope on the range and competitions down there? I've got intel they're there, but would like some specifics before I try to enter an AFB with a M-25 and an expired Army car sticker ;-)

Ken: Yup! Happy Birthday USMC! I'd forgotten all about today with the distractions of possible global anihiliation. After all, I doubt China knows that we're in a near state of civil unrest, with a lame dick (er, duck) president, and Tiawan doesn't mean anything to them anyhow. But as the semper fidellis has taken history, it will proceed in the future. All out!

And I think I got a cursed starlight case. I was mad about not being able to go shooting, so I left Betty Lou in the case waiting for good weather. It rained for almost 3 weeks solid. So last night I load her up again for this morning, and wake up to a solid foot of snow. It's dumped over another foot on me since I woke up. Heck, after shoveling the drive, my wife took off (not 15 minutes later) and there was another inch on the pavement! Well, atleast the feds will have a hard time getting up the hill HA!
Bravo - Patriots USA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
time to stay at home and read "a time to hunt", USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:57:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.181)

I know this is still off-subject, but this is a good link. National Review is doing good work.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment111000b.shtml

Bill R already hinted at this, but consider the following Tom Clancy scenario: Gorewinkle appears dumb enough to think he's going to blow off the constitution and O.J. jury his way into the presidency. Professional rabble-rousers are in the process of whipping the inner cities into a Rodney-King-Riot frenzy. THIS ADMINISTRATION does not understand violence but has the power to put troops in the streets. The troops didn't vote for him and don't like him.

There are some mean and merciless people overseas who don't like us and are watching closely. One has the power to disrupt our life blood which is our oil supply. It is the responsibility of THIS ADMINISTRATION to deal with those people while defending the constitution domestically.

The outcomes of these events are completely unpredictable. I expect it will all blow over like that Y2K nonsense.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:00:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.76)

Jeff: Right-o! And I wasn't there either. And what you took away was very true, the student populous showed up with standard hunting rifles, but he didn't offer enough target mass for them to be effective. Just like someone at TU to be rude. The sad part is that you were right on with the shotgun and pistol stuff, that's what the police had, and what they used. But at that range, shot has virtually no chance of hitting a small target, Wild Bill's "a bullet has to go somewhere" not withstanding. A fully trained, no, half trained sniper team, no, a serious civvie and lazy unprepared sniper team would have outmatched
him. At the time I thought it would be a tough shot (because of the size of the target) with my hunting rifle. At this point in my life, it would have been a called headshot with a CCB, and I'm no sniper. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you completely. I seriously doubt that a patrol carbine would have done much good, and the point you made about collateral dammage and stray shots was extremely valid. From my viewpoint (around the music building if memory serves), if I had been shooting, the shots would have had nowhere unpopulated to go.

On Lon Horiuchi: I will feel much more at ease when I grab the carton of milk in the morning and see his face on the side. That he is afforded witness protection status is in my mind indefensible. I don't want to start an uproar with you pro-Lon guys, this is just my mindset.
Bravo - Patriots USA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
happy birthday USMC!, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:13:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.164)

As for the demos and their nonsense, think of it this way: if you rely on the feeble minded to secure your power, you can't be too suprised if they fuck things up for you.

Carry on...
Roger C. <madeditor75@hotmail.com>
Surrounded by liberals with blue hair and five pounds of metal stuck through their faces in Austin, Texas, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 18:01:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.226.102.2)

Gents,

HAPPY BIRTHDAY MARINES! LONG LIVE THE CORPS AND SUCCESS TO THE MARINES!

Now that I have that off my chest, I want to thank all our brothers (and sisters) who have served. You can be justifiably proud of your contributions.

The Election: I am sickened by the current election. Got a post that said the Pres can declare the Florida vote "tainted" and disalow it and the electoral votes. Meanwhile Al Gore has not been visibly involved, but his minions are doing everything they can to insure the win. It presently looks like Gore will take Oregon. Would like to know WHY it takes so long for a state our size to count a couple million votes and why it takes so long for the precincts to "report".

Personally, I think we had better get ready for 4-8 years of a Demo President. In another 2-4 I think the house and senate will roll back to democract control. Unfortunately, we seem to have a bunch of Demo politicians/lawyers who have figured out a way to subvert our electoral system and have the lack of morals to do so...

Think I'll go place some orders for brass, primers, bullets, and powder...

Semper Fi,

Wes
(PRAYING TO GOD I'M WRONG)
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 19:49:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.6.15.20)

Curiouser and curiouser.......

For those interested in NM politics, Gore's lead is now down to 164 votes statewide, after the "retabulation" last night and today in the Bernalillo County election results warehouse. The 1700 or so absentee ballots (which include a lot of military) have been counted but not yet announced, and are not included in the totals yet. Our measly 5 electoral votes are still up for grabs.

Interestingly, there are 252 ballots "missing", that officials are trying to locate within the warehouse. How they know that exactly 252 are missing is anybody's guess.

As Gore's lead evaporated from 3700 down to 164, the state Democratic Chairperson announced that she has been in touch with the Dem's in DC and requested observers to be sent here immediately. Earlier she appeared to have no need for them!

Note to DC lawyers parachuting into NM:
I'd suggest a night insertion, it's still dove season out here.

Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 19:51:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.215.105.159)

Just a thanks to all the VETS and ACTIVE DUTY folks out there for their devotion and patriotism to our country. Happy Birthday Marines and Happy Veterans Day to those that sacrificed and served.

De Oppresso Liber !!
TonyY <ayackowski@pershing.com>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 20:49:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.97.88.102)

They should substitute the voting card with a bingo card, maybe then those senile old women can get it right!!
Russ Egan <DRNRA@aol.com>
Williamsburg, Va., USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 20:52:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.162)

To owners of Leupold M3LR scope:

Early this week I wrote an email to Leupold to find out how to get a 308Y dial. Their reply said that "they are developing new (i.e., better) dials that will be available after the first of the year".

"new (i.e., better)" are their words not mine so don't ask me for specifics. But it is something to keep an eye on.

If this has been covered recently, sorry for the rehash, take it as a reminder.

Doug

Doug <dmorisoli@worldnet.att.net>
PA, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 20:59:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.78.214.242)

Doug...
You've joind things a few months late... We knew it before anybody.
We even knew it on Snipercountry before most of the people AT LEUPOLD!

The cams for the M3-LR, and the MK4-M3 are being re-calculated, due to errors discovered my some bum on this site, after about two years of work.

Go back in the archives and read the last 6 months.

Looks loke New Mexico is going to join the "recount" fray...

I ordered a 50 cal today, an AR-50 today... more macaroni and cheese ;((

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 21:31:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.32)

Ray: The scout scope/rifle combination was designed as a complete system by people who knew their purpose and know what they are doing. A rifle-shot certainly CAN hit beyond 200 yards with a scout. I shot a competition against people who used them and who were trained by the guy who designed them. Let's just say that I'm glad we weren't shooting at each other. A guy I trained with used an early scout to break a double on clay pidgeons. FLYING clay pidgeons.

It would be worth your while to go to the links page of this site and find 'Frount Sight' in Pahrump. The honcho there is named Naish Piazza. He's fully competent to show you how to use the scout rifle. If you want a dedicated long-range rifle, there are better, and cheaper, options.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 21:32:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.70)

Perceptions of what is written?
Remember what has been written by me before is a brief synopsis of the events I was envolved in in SL. I will attempt to quantify the last bout of questions:
*Jungle, I would refer to the area of operations that I worked in
more like swampland than jungle. Visability was around 50 - 60m and
it was fairly easy to move through. (Mango trees etc..)
*We infiltrated through the bush, not via the roads.
*Once deployed to the road side I had a view of around 250m forwards
and 400m back down the road.
*F/forces did patrol at night (and used roads, an overt presence was
critical to send the right message to the Rebels) and ambushes were
set. Locations were coordinated by the Patrol coord Officer.
*F/Forces patrolling in my area new the rough area to expect to bump
into me. (This said they did patrol past me on frequent occations
but non noticed my position)
*At this juncture I'd like to add that it rained heavy from around
2200hrs until approx 0900hrs every day I was in the bush. (another
down factor when lying by the roadside cammed up,with no waterproofs
on obviously)
*The idea of hitting them from the rear was a shooting task not a
Mortar task, remember I stated earlier we were out of Mortar range.
Risky perhaps but Hey thats my job!
*Armour was wheeled, we only had ball rounds (no API, due to quick
deployment and difficultly getting the ammo in UK had it had not
been officially cleared through Army sources, Fucking idiots reign,
it was Lapua Ball. Extremly good ammo (for factory produced)
*On ammo we use Lapua for .338 and Radway Green for L96 (which is
poor by competition standards but its what we get issued so we have
to make do, tampering with ammo is an offense in our army, so no
re-loads)Lapua is good and very consistant but RG is very
unpredictable but we hit the target with it (precision stuff is
harder with it, you know X shooting)
*We use DF's (pre-recorded tgts) with Arty/Mor when it is available
to us. Df's were forward of the closest units (5km rear of us)

Hope enlightens previous posts Slugboy!

Slugboy <Slug.boy@virgin.net>
England - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 21:34:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 62.253.64.4)

Note:
On return from Sierra Leone some months ago I posted some photos of Snipers in and around Lungi airfield and one of me in Kosovo on roof above Madelaine Albrights podium during her visit to Pristina. These went to Sniper Country but still hav not appeared in the photo gallery?
Slugboy <Slug.boy@virgin.net>
England - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 21:40:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 62.253.64.4)

To Trigger 50,

Dean, I need to get hold of you for some assistance. Please email me.

Jeff
Jeff <jeff.harmon@acterna.com>
McKinney , TX, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 22:32:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.198.36)

HAPPY VETERANS DAY AND HB MARINES!

Also, just a word of thanks to the webmasters who contribute much of what little free time they have so that we can have a forum like this.

Also, in spite of all the elections issues going on, think for a minute about how many places in the world would allow the freedom of speech that we can have a site like this free censorship.

God Bless America and may we never forget.

Jeff
Jeff <dog21@together.net>
VT, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 22:42:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.91.46.126)

Ref. Rendezvous Pictures

When are we going to see some pictures from this year's Rendezvous?
Kevin R. Mussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 22:45:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.69)

Kevin,

Hopefully soon, but its my understanding Marius is up to his ears in counting ballots, ooops ;-)

Chao!

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 22:58:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.212)

All right 'Lito, you've piqued my curiousity. So "WHAT IS AN AR-50?" he asked in all capps!

Well over 2 feet of snow, and it's cooling off (still snowing!) Betty Lou is feeling neglected.

Anyone think that if I claimed I filled out my ballot wrong, they'd give me a government entitlement program for free M-118LR? Where's that algor red crayon? HA!
Bravo - Patriots USA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
The banana republic, formerly known as the, USA - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 23:33:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.245)

Happy Birthday Marines and Happy Veterans Day Eveyone....
Estep <NEstep@hotmail.com>
Michigan, USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 00:33:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.198.166)

Moe: please explain how Algore got over 75% of the jewish vote?
don't the jews have a saying that translates as "never again"
surely they can see the similarities between the current trend and that of pre-war Germany.
As a native american I get very nervous when the Feds try to dissarm us. I remember stories of the "relocation camps" the US forced the Cherokee and other tribes into, after first dissarming them.
Its not just important to vote, its important to make a well informed vote

iiii's out
iiiiwanabe <mikelsam@ipa.net>
siloam springs, Ar, USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 00:37:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.128.140.61)

I'm trying to find some information on a fella named Darrel Holland. I under he makes and installs an item called the Ultra brake. If anyone can provide me with a way of contacting him, I would appriciate it.

Thanks, Bud
Bud Montague <budmont1@optonline.net>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 01:43:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.189.149.32)

Men.........I am looking for a spotting scope with the following minium requirements;

a) Must see 5.56 bullet holes at 300 yards in paper.
b) Must see 7.62 bullet holes at 600 yards in paper.
c) No recticle on the lens (cover up bullet holes?)

I would prefer not to sell my kidney but would consider it. HA!

McGrath

John McGrath <jkmcgrath@home.com>
Springfield, Missouri (First to ever elect a dead man. Wasted our most sacred gift. Votes!!!!!!), USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 01:47:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.255.84)

All:
Okay - gang - I didn't create this - but it loooks like a good idea for a ballot...

http://www.aspiringtech.net/Pics/morons1.gif

Ken :)

Ken <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 02:40:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)

John McGrath - Damn dude, maybe the Hubble might pick up a .30 inch hole at 600 yards!!!

Question, "What three things will be left after all life has ended on Earth?"

Answer, "Clintons, Gore and Cockroached".

Semper Gumby Marines.

Out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 02:47:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.102.23.52)

SITREP:

If this is not something you guys wanna see, let me know. I figure current events are good for snipers to consider for future work.

>
>Panama arms trade a question of supply and demand
>
>
>October 18, 2000

>
>PANAMA CITY (Reuters) -- From gold-laden mule trains linking the Pacific
>and Atlantic oceans in the 1500s to the shimmering canal at the heart of
>its modern service-led economy, Panama has long benefited from legitimate
>east-west trade.
>
>But with the weapons-laden nations of Central America to the north and
>Colombia's cocaine-fueled war machine to the south, the narrow, tapering
>isthmus now is being sucked into a spiraling regional barter economy in
>drugs and guns.
>
>Rust-flecked weapons used by former combatants in Nicaragua's bloody Contra
>war that killed 30,000 in the 1980s are smuggled through Panama by land and
>sea to Colombian rebels, often in exchange for Andean cocaine en route to
>the United States, prosecutors say.
>
>The ideological stripe of the outlaw faction is no object, with left-wing
>Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) and National Liberation Army
>(ELN) rebels queuing up to buy alongside right-wing paramilitaries,
>officials say.
>
>"The trade in arms and drugs through Panama happens for one reason: the
>country's geographical position. It's a path to market for sought-after
>products," Panama's deputy drug prosecutor Patricio Candanedo told Reuters
>in an interview.
>
>"Drugs go toward North America, where they find their greatest market in
>the United States, while the large quantity of arms that remained in
>Central America head south to where the present armed conflict is."
>
>Bellicose peace dividend
>When peace accords ended a proxy war between Nicaragua's U.S.-backed
>Contras and Cuban-trained Sandinista forces in 1990, more than 80,000
>combatants were demobilized in a country ranked among the three poorest in
>the hemisphere.
>
>While former factions handed over thousands of weapons to authorities, some
>estimates say around 50,000 remained in the hands of ex-combatants as
>negotiable assets in the peace process that promised land and credit.
>Nicaraguan police recently pegged the figure at only 5,000.
>
>"It can't be denied that in the 1980s there were a lot of arms, not just in
>Nicaragua but throughout Central America, but we are hunting them down,"
>Nicaraguan armed forces chief Gen. Javier Carrion told reporters last
>month.
>
>Kept in clandestine arsenals, the weapons are widely available for sale
>both in Nicaragua and neighboring Honduras and Costa Rica. In Honduras,
>from where 15,000 Contras fought their hit-and-run cross-border war
>throughout the 1980s, police say AK-47 assault rifles are cheap and
>plentiful.
>
>"Nicaraguan Contras sold thousands of rifles and pistols in Honduras for
>between $70 and $100, and unfortunately many of them fell into criminal
>hands," police spokesman Hector Mejia told Reuters.
>
>In Costa Rica, dubbed the "Switzerland of Central America" for its
>decades-old democratic government, police say arms buried in hidden caches
>on farmland along the northern frontier with Nicaragua can be bought for
>$100, with 15,000 rounds of ammunition thrown in for purchases of more than
>100.
>
>While El Salvador's bloody 12-year conflict ended with 1992 peace accords
>that transformed the 8,000-strong Farabundo Marti National Liberation
>(FMLN) guerrillas into a left-wing opposition party, police there say
>former weapons are readily available on a local black market.
>
>"In former times there were a lot of arms around throughout Salvador and
>some people took advantage of the situation. (But) the black market mostly
>supplies criminals at the national level," National Civilian Police
>spokesman Jose Tobar said.
>
>Enough guns for an infantry
>In the year to September, Panama police seized enough Central American
>weapons en route to Colombia to arm an infantry battalion, including 362
>Soviet-made AK-47 assault rifles, dozens of U.S.-made M-16s and Israeli
>Galils, and 427 pistols of various calibers.
>
>In four operations alone last month near Panama City and the Atlantic port
>of Colon, police impounded almost 3,000 pounds (1,400 kg) of explosives,
>plus machine guns, grenades, Russian antipersonnel mines and Chinese rocket
>launchers.
>
>The raids, which netted above 125,000 rounds of ammunition and led to the
>arrest of 16 suspects, including Panamanians, Colombians and one Venezuelan
>national, also found insurgency manuals and, in one case, cassette tapes
>with rousing Nicaraguan guerrilla anthems.
>
>Security forces in Panama and Colombia say much of Central America's
>leftover arsenal makes its way south to Colombian rebels by boat along the
>poorly guarded Caribbean coastline. Once there, it is sold for cash at a
>500-percent markup, or bartered for drugs.
>
>Weapons are also smuggled into Panama from Costa Rica across the border at
>Paso Canoas in trucks, from where they are hauled south to safe houses,
>police say. Some continue to Colombia by boat, while lesser quantities are
>hauled east across the Darien Gap's open jungle frontier into Colombia.
>
>While regional security forces have played down the scale of the illicit
>north-south arms trade in recent months, some countries are now calling for
>international cooperation to interrupt the flow of weapons southward.
>
>"This (arms trafficking) is a regional problem, which also involves El
>Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras and Panama," Costa Rican Security Minister
>Rogelio Ramos said recently. "It's a problem that we all have to address."

Jeff <dog21@together.net>
VT, USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 02:48:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.91.32.177)

Bravo...
It's 5 feet long, weighs 45 pounds (with optics), and shoots 50 BMG... and I may give up sheep for it!!

iiiiwanabe...
And don't for get the Cheyenne's "March of Tears"!!

Bud Montague...
Darrel Holland can be reached at "Holland's Gunsmithing"...
at 541-439-5155... he has one of the best reputations in the country, and he's very easy to talk to.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 03:33:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.137)

Bill R: Oh, Yeah. Well you write THIS down. John Ashcroft of Missouri. Don't ask, I'll remind ya!

Happy Birthday, Marines (Including two members of my family.), and God Bless all Veterans. My flag is up for you, and my heart goes out to you. Without you we wouldn't enjoy the freedom we have in this country.

PaulS <kpszopa@aol.com>
Columbia, MO, USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 03:39:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.42)

My name is Chad Hunt, I am with a military Special Reaction Team and I am a sniper with the unit. I am looking for a small Barometer to measure wind speed in the field. If you know where I can get one please let me know. Thank you.
Chad Hunt <oneshot@vision1mm.com>
chatan-cho, okinawa, japan - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 04:28:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 210.146.8.236)

Slugboy: Thanks for the clarification. My confusion is lessened.

Laying in a hide playing host to swarms of tropical insects as it rained for eleven hours a day?

Ahh, the glamor.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 04:43:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.14)

Chad: Sinclar sells an anenometer called the Kestrel for about $80. I own one and can recommend it for training and the range.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 04:47:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.14)

Marine Aviator's Pray:
Lord grant me the eys of a hawk,
The wings of an eagle,
and the balls of an U.S.ARMY helicopter pilot!

Sarge
Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 05:24:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.245.243.111)

WES,
the voting is controlled by the STATE in which it/is/was taken.
Totally controlled by them.
The only way the vote could be thrown out, is if massive voter fraud was discovered.
It has not........
The thing that concerns me, is the fact that a lot of our service people did not get absentee ballots, and a lot that did, did so after it was too late for them to count.(i.e), wouldn't make it back in the alloted 10 day period after the gen'l election.
Coincedence anyone?, got some swamp land for sale in Nevada, yeah, right.
Also, what are the odds of military ballots making it through the US postal system?, any bet takers here?.
Heard several service personell requesting ballots, three months in advance, and never recieved them.
One gentleman requested one three times, went down to vote in person, informed election officials and they checked, and said they were mailed, and he had voted, three times!!!.....By the way, he is a Repub, the three votes cast were all for GORE.
Enough on that topic, thank you ALL service personell, active and inactive, retired, for your hard work blood sweat and tears.......
I deeply appreciate you, and what you have sacrificed for myself and our country..........God Bless you ALL...........
Two Shoes
In the State where Dubyah governs.......for just a while longer!
Terry <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 05:49:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.195.24)

Happy Veteran's Day to all who have served or are serving.

Election Prayer: Oh Lord,Can we please have Reagan back?
Carl Hendricks <loper@micron.net>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 06:15:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.206.37.145)

(Big) Brother Two Shoes: there's extreme evidence of voter fraud, and it's not only flagrant, it's incredible. As a matter of fact, I posted such on the PatriotsUSA site this evening, in fuller than necessarily desired explicitness. Granted, it's statistical, but it stood up to my scrutiny at full force without budging. Seems that the "double punched" ballots in the rest of the counties throughout the US were approximately 1%, except for that one area, where they were in the significant double digits. Maybe we need someone specialized in the field to verify these statements. CDC, you up for the job? As for myself, I hereby volunteer my time and effort in the system. If Florida needs a ballot counter, I'm willing, ready and able. I'll have my trusty HP-48GX in my left hand, Linda Lou locked and loaded in the other.

As of now, I'm severly antagonized. I thought it was just good form for the communists to wait until AFTER they were sworn in to recommend a dismantling of our Constitution. Seems Hitlery doesn't want to wait for her turn. But in all good faith, I will not give a complete and total call to arms quite yet LOL.

And to you lawyers out there, is there anything *I* can do as a citizen in the way of a personal law suit against an elected official if he breaks his oath of office? Seriously. I'll pay the bill if I can have some of these fetid pieces of porcine excrement imprizoned on charges.
Bravo - PatriotsUSA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
2+ feet of snow, guess it's a good time to load more 5.56 NATO, USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 06:26:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.232)

Paul; so noted uhhuh! Am reminded of another Great Missourian, Jesse who?".
All;Perhaps we will wind up with Each Candidate president in only the states he carried if we ever figure out which ones that is. After all there is no constitution as far as the Demos are concerned. When I look at that map... that might be a good way to divide her up. Aliens from California and New Jersey.. hum! Would they have to have a green card to come to Texas. Suits me! They wouldn't have a problem with immigration. "Left States of America" That has a nice ring to it!
The Left States wouldn't need elections any more, just a line on the bottom of the welfare checks. "Write in the name of your benefactor"!
IN the "Right States of America" we'd just buy em a ticket to California and Smuggle them in overnight. Taxes would be eliminated because there would be no welfare program. Government workers would be offered real jobs and refusers would go to New Jersey. We wouldn't need a Forest Service cause we'd log it till it doesn't burn down every summer. School Teachers who know the first line of the preamble to the Consitition would be retained and the others sent to NEA heaven in California. Medical insurance wouldn't be needed cause without taxes we could pay our own way. Walmarts would be made into indoor gun ranges, and National Parks and Golf courses would be administered by the remnants of the AARP who refused to go to "Left States" and were unemployed by the failure of Walmart. Abortion clinics would be converted to ammo reloading centers and staffed by volunteer Social Security recipients and ex BATF people. Those colored or uncolored who don't notice color would not be noticed for not noticing. Schools and parking lots would be guarded by the NRA and UPS would haul firearms only. Fed Ex would do the rest of the mail and the U.S. Post offices would be Gun Club meeting rooms with P.O. boxes used for Ammo Storage. Oil Companies would produce oil... Cars would have miniguns, citizens would carry their weapons outside their pants and would be very polite. Criminals would be banished to "Left States" to become politicians there.
Sales tax, fuel tax, and brass recycling would provide for the common defense and border patrol. States and counties would keep their own money and not need federal highway and educations funds. And most important of all Soccer would not be allowed and Hamburgers would have to be cooked on flat grills with real grease! Ice cream would have to be spooned and not poured and peaches would be cheap year round. Mama's would let their babies be cowboys if they wanted too.

Just a little vision of Redneck utopia for you all out there.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 12:29:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

Sorry for the hyperactivity of the last couple of days. This lawyer-led coup has me bouncing off the walls. I'll sit down and shut up.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:03:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.237.107)

B.Rogers, one redneck to another, find me this utopia and I will crawl on my hands and knees to get there. Call it "Snipercountry Town, USA"!

Lets invite Bravo the brewmaster to set up his international headquarters there, would definitely make the dream complete!

Could also be the international headquarters for; Norcal, Undude Sling Co., Bolt's Fishing Tackle Service; and a zillion other "outdoor friendly" companies!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:09:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.55.73)

SERIOUSLY!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:12:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.55.73)

SERIOUSLY!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:12:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.55.73)

Got so excited about this idea I hit the trigger too quick!

SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are there enough people here that would be willing to develop the idea of a "shooter's paradise" somewhere in these U.S.? There has to be enough affordable swamp or desert yucky land that nobody wants that we could get for a song! WHAT YOU GUYS THINK??????????
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:15:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.55.73)

Thanks Pablito. I've been hanging here only a few weeks. All you guyz 'da best! Can't imagine where I'd be on the learning curve without this resource.

Fly-specks in the election: Al Gwhore best watch his back if he pursues this strategy of cherry picking which counties to micro-recount.

We MUST keep the electoral college in place. Gore did NOT win hardly ANY states. He merely carried the large cities within states to take the whole thing. If we went to popular vote, candidates would only campaign in Los Angeles, S.F, New York and Philly and tehy would take the whole enchilada. The rest of the nation be damned.

Look at the extreme voter skewing here in Philadelphia for example. Lots of talk here about Dems registering mental patients,homeless, etc. (their typical "informed voter" base). In South Philly if you're a Repub, you're dead man walking.

Bush lost ALL of Pennsylvania, in my opinion, just due to Philly. And if Penn went the other way, we aren't having this discussion, we're out celerating Bush as new president.

SAVE OUR CONSITUTION

(Soap box mode off)
Good day

Doug <dmorisoli@worldnet.at.net>
PA, USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 16:27:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.101.132.168)

Bolt: I've advocated such a paradise before, although people didn't seem receptive at the time. Instead of SniperCountry Town USA, I chose to leave the town name "Havana". Or at the minimum "Jackson Hole". I'm assuming that you guys have heard about our local ordinance now that REQUIRES all people to have arms and ammo? In order to keep the lawyers happy, there's "outs" for basically anyone, under the conciencous objector clause. Being true Americans though, there aren't any government entitlement programs for those who don't have a pistol. Note to you California types: this is all that's required for you to keep your "assault rifles". A city or county ordinance passed 180 degrees to the state law.
"All laws repugnant to the Constitution, are null and void." Marbury v. Madison § 5 U.S. 137, 176:
Bravo - Patriots USA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic, looking for a top banana, USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 17:35:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.157)

Any plan should count me OUT. If you hear me say otherwise you can be sure that someone has a gun to my kid's head. This thing will sort itself out through the existing institutions.

Bush has an obligation to step up to the plate. I will support his effort through work and contributions. I don't shoot, or threaten to shoot, people. I don't believe in Utopia. All Utopias carry with them The Gulag.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 20:43:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.75)

OK, here's this thing: (Hint, Hint SC patrons in Palm Beach County)

I looked at the confusing ballot and fully agree that it might confuse some voters (wink, wink). In fact, I could understand if some Bush supporters might see the big "3" next to Bush's name and assume that they needed to count down to punch the third hole. I can see this leading to a situation where some clean Gore votes, were actually INTENDED to be Bush votes, but the "3" was confusing. I would suggest that any of my fellow Bush supporters, who also happen to live in PB county, might want to think about whether they ACTUALLY voted for Bush, or if maybe Gore got their vote. Hmmmmm Maybe all of PB should be tossed out (w/ no re-vote). Gee, I wonder what THAT would mean...
André <andrekp@yahoo.com>
Pompano Beach, FL, USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 21:31:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.63.238.250)

CDC, ease up man. We're just messing around here. I was just trying to get everyone's mind, including mine, off this election mess. Noboby's talking about shooting anybody, just messing with the idea of buying a bunch of land that nobody wants and set up "the mother of all shooting places" in friendly territory.

Well, I reckon everybody including me is about fed up with politics right now. Kinda like waiting for water to boil. I sent Bush and Cheney an email today telling them to get in there fight to win, not to wussy out. Done bout all I can do. I'm through with posting or even pondering it until somebody simply says who won.

We probably need to go back to shooting subjects again. More fun talking about "spindrift" than politics!

Bolt, feeling like having another Bravo Brew, OUT!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 21:35:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.54.238)

Boltster...
On "Spin drift"... does it spin to the right ;), or the left :((

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Used up about 7 years of my life in the last few days... in the very confused, USA - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 22:32:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.56)

CDC: I think you might have misunderstood me. All I asked was if you were up to the job of taking a look at an article explaining statistically that the votes HAD to have been tampered with, and making an educated statement of if it were garbage or not. This from a statistics guru, not me. I didn't agree with SOME of the premices in it, although they had little effect in the vote tampering scheme of things. I'm not as interested in how many votes SHOULD each person have got, but proof that there WAS tampering. You may rest assured that my statements are, at this point in time, the same as what I have previously posted. I neither care to run, hide, nor stick my head in the sand. I won't fire first. But if *THEY* decide to start a war, LET IT BEGIN HERE! You may also rest assured that if anyone is holding a gun to your kids head, I will lend any and all possible assistance.

Patron 'Lito: political spin (drift) is always to the left. It comes from the media (medium) that the stuff is flying (through). It's surprising how many carvile "long range crap throwers" there are running about. As for me, count me in the bunkered and cammoed camp LOL
Bravo - Patriots USA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Insert treasonous politician here ->, Hangmans noose and gallows, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 00:17:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.180)

Bolt...I already said I'm in..I'm in! dag nab it all, where 'n heck is IT gonna Be?

SERIOUSLY!

sorry, i know we ain't 'sposed to do that. he he he he he he he

Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
but seriously dude, really., USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 00:17:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.73.195)

Just a little vision of Redneck utopia for you all out there.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 00:50:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

Further anal ysis of the "spin drift" theory reveals further information not yet considered by many of our gurus of physics! The term is actually backwards, it should be "drifting while spinnning". As the spinning projectile exits the muzzle it is immediately subjected to forces of laterally moving thermal currents. Therefore, one must compute not only for downrange lateral force influence, you must now compute for influences at or near the muzzle. Computing for a wind effect of 37.24 mph, one must adjust for a drift of ~.00000002576389457 inches at the muzzle for a point blank shot. In addition, but not limited to, these laterally moving thermal currents rise while heating or fall while cooling thus resulting in an upward or downward drifting vector of ~.0000231457 inches per second per second at a temp inversion of ~.1659 degrees + or -.

These are only approximations, however I believe we must now re-think the theory of "drifitng while spinning" in relationship to tactical distances of <= 112 meters.

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 01:20:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.54.238)

iiiiwanabe -

75% of the Jewish vote? Is that published? I haven't seen anything regarding that but it's probably true, especially here in Palm Beach County. How? Simple, most Jews are democrats and Leiberman is the first Jew ever picked for the "heartbeat" job. If you were Jewish, who would you vote for?

The problem is that most Jews have gotten fat, dumb and happy living in the Banana Republic. As far as "never again," the only Jews you'll see espousing that doctrine live in Israel or belong to the Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, a decidely right wing, militant organization that most Jews shy away from. And before anyone gets rightously indignant, I am not prejudiced. I work and socialize with quite a few of them, so....shut....up.

A dear lady at work (whom I refer to as my Jewish mother) was talking with me the other day about the possibility of Algwhore taking the election to the courts to "get his way." I explained to her that the Constitution did not allow that. She thought that it was his "right" to do so because she didn't like Bush and the hell with the Constitution! Excuse me? So what about the right of assembly, of religion, of speech, of unwarranted search and seizure, etc, etc? Don't these mean anything to you anymore? Silence.

The Jews are, in my opinion, forgetting their own history, now that they too are on the fed's dole.

Andre -

How dare you come in to our great state and try to tell us how to act like morons?! Just where do you get off, dude? I've been here 18 years and I'm just now getting the fine points down, although I still have a long way to go - I screwed up my ballot - I voted for the guy I really wanted to vote for. Damn!

You need to pay your dues, man. Go spend some time in Morrison's Cafeteria and have Jello spilled all over you! Stand in the checkout line at Publix and get your ankles smashed from behind! THEN you can start showing us the errors of our ways.

Hey, wait a minute. You're not even in the right county. You're in Broward, not Palm Beach! DAMN INTERLOPER! Double Damn! HA! ;-)

Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
LOOK! IT'S JESSE JACKOFF!, FL, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 01:52:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.199.31)

Gents,

Just back from a day of spectacularly unsuccessful Rooseveldt Elk Hunting. Don't know where the beasties went to, but then our Pacific Coast Rain Forest and nasty terrain don't help much. Hell, I even dropped into the "hole from hell" thinking they might be holed up there...no joy.

Terry, I agree that the states run there own voting, but believe me there are Federal laws in place that allow Billy Boy to null and void the election...why do you think he has been smiling so much lately. Maybe he KNOWS he's not out of a job!

Actually, the whole mess is just that. The problem is that we don't know what the reality is...as we get only selected bits and pieces from both sides. I'd like it settled so we can decide on what our course of action needs to be...

I'm ready to do what the rest of the crew looks like they're doing...getting ready to "bunker down".

Interesting conversation today with Steve Nelson, Secretary of the American Custom Guncrafters Guild. We were both carrying non magnums for elk. In my case a .35 Whelan Improved and Steve was using an '06. Both customs. We discussed people buying "technological solutions" to percieved hunting needs. A good example would be people jumping on the new Remington Ultra Mag Bandwagon. Do the cartridges really perform better and are they needed? Our take was that theres no real difference between a .300 Winch and the .300 RUM. At least not that an animal can tell. Ballistically, you get a 100 or so more FPS, more recoil, shortened barrel life, etc. NOT a good trade-off.

I hunt with non magnums/unbelted cartridges. Note the "move" in that direction. Belts are worthless and unneeded, but have become what defines "magnum". Case in point is the 6.5 Rem Mag. ANYBODY using it today? Ballistics are not as good as my 6.5 X .284 which is unbelted.

The cartridges we have that work have history...The .270, 30/06, .35 Whelan, 300 H&H, 375 H&H, etc. Do we need more? On the other hand it does sell rifles...

Frankly, the .308 will fill the bill for 99% of what I do and hunt, provided watashi wa does his part...

Happy USMC B-day to all you Marines.

To those that have served: Happy Veterans Day. Your sacrifices, past and present, are appreciated.

Semper Fi,

Wes Howe
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 02:24:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.248.114)

You guys know I can't stand communists, but Nader is a stand up guy, and would almost get my respect. Never my vote though. When he was getting grilled about costing algor the election, he put this out, and I had to applaud: "Gore had all the advantages of an incumbent administration, but he never generated enthusiasm, and many voters cast votes for him out of the least-worst attitude, not out of conviction. ... Gore cost me the election!"

Sir Wes: I agree whole heartedly about the magnums. I took a page from Theodore Roosevelt, he thought that the 30-40 Krag was a great round for all but the largest of American game, for which he preferred the 30-06. As of this point, I can't say that I've ever run across any game wearing kevvies, so I will ditto his findings. I hunted with a 30-06 for YEARS, and then, after relocating to an area where the vegitation was more dense, I went to the 30-40. Great round, get's my approval 100%! I don't need no stinkin belts! Rims maybe though ;-)

Here's something interesting, it's a map of where 50% of the popular vote lives, by county: http://www.millenicom.com/patriot/popvote.gif You can compare that to the USA TODAY county by county vote result at: http://www.millenicom.com/patriot/map.jpg INTERESTING!!!

And now for the moment of curiousity. I did some research on the 7.5mm Schmidt Rubin (7.5mm Swiss), and it it's REALLY close to a 308X284. So why are the velocities so low? In this source, from a 30.7" bbl, they got a whopping 2500 fps from a 180 grainer. That's about 300 fps less than a 30-06 from a 22" barrel. I know something HAS to be up. Was the 7.5 data very light loads or what? It's GOT to be more powerful than the 308, right?
Bravo - Patriots USA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
peeling the banana republic, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 02:47:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.180)

Recently, my friend was told by a gunsmith that he could get his 300 Wby mag to shoot just as well as a 30/378 by chronographing, and reloading. Is that possible? And if it is, could I, in turn, by chronographing and reloading, get my Ruger M77 300 WM to shoot better than a 300 Wby mag?
Ben Seibert <b_seibert@hotmail.com>
USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:11:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.150.193.22)

Real rednecks don't want all of the durn trees cut down...then everyone would see the mess around our houses. That means I'd have to paint my redneck yard ornament...a 1985 GMC Jimmy that ain't runned in 4 er 5 years. Good god..I might even have to FIX it so it runs again!

Moe, Moe, Moe, Only 18 years? You're just a babe in the big swamp. Hang around, Polytics in cracker land just get better and better all of the time. We are the next Kalifornistan dontcha know! Why do you think I moved to the panhandle. To get away from all of the liberal kooks that have migrated to central and south Florida. Every time y'all flush your privies down in Lala land, Lake Okeechobee drops a foot. Maybe we could cross Gators with them there Raptor dinosaurs....the only people that would survive would be people with Guns!!

Damn I like that idea.

Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Been all over the state, Fl., USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 04:37:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.74.70)

Man that was a long 15 minutes...just when i found a good thing to read other than election crap it disappears. Thanks for gettin things back in line guys, and to those who replied in reference to my GPS question thank you. Does anyone have a good load for Sierra 69grainers? Will be shooting them out of a Rem.700 Police 1/9 twist
thanks again and keep up the quality conversation all.
Marc <onesonek@hotmail.com>
not peoples republic of philadelphia, Pa, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 05:36:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.20.71.110)

Just for grins, I took the sample ballot the state sends and I did, in fact, vote appropriately at 100 yards! Couldn't read the damn thing at 100 yards, so I marked it then shot out the holes. Considering the stupid sheeple in FLA who couldn't vote right, that makes me one of the smartest people in the world.

(disclaimer: this was not a scientific test, it did not harm sheep, and it posed no environmental threat, and coming from a near idiot should be taken as it came from the source.)
Hank <ninesoft2@earthlink.net>
USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 05:39:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.31.7.54)

Hank, Thanks for your comments! All this election B.S was getting me down. You and Bolt's antics brought on out lound laughter!

Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
needing a laugh, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 10:35:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.192.208.6)

been out of the loop for awhile and have spent the last week trying to catch up on the Roster for the past month. For those still interested, www.campmor.com has Gregory packs and in some decent color. The "Shasta" is in Sage(5700 cu.in.) and the "Windriver" is in Forest(6585 cu.in.) I think the 1st ruck I have from Gregory is close to 18 yrs old and while the inner coating is gone it still hauls my gear. Got it when I was stationed at Ft.Lewis. Best ruck I ever "Humped" !!

**Here is a question for the REAL gunsmiths that visit here**
.308 Win is suppose to be 2.8"something" OAL. As we all know a Rem. 700 has alot more freebore than that and if I reload my rounds to be within 0.020 of the lands then there is NO WAY I can load the suckers into the mag/clip/whatever. OK, IS there ANY way to solve this without spending major $$$ ??? I have a VSSF and a 700 Laminated that will do 1/2-3/4 MOA all the way to 600 IF I do my part. Neither rifle has 2,000 rounds through it yet and I can't see buying a new barrel yet. Is it possible to reset the barrel ?? Or something ??

It aggravates me to no end to have to load to "spec" when I know I can get more accuracy by seating longer but when I do that the rifle becomes a single shot. Sure it's easier on the checkbook but ...

Last but not least...anyone know of a supplier for Sellier & Bellot MATCH .308 ?? I would like to try some. Hope the shooters at the Rifle Match at English Range at Ft. Benning today are having "Fun" with the "Sphinx" targets !!!! heh heh heh I have blisters from cutting all that cardboard !!
Thanks
OUT HERE

Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 13:55:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.148.218)

Will,

Had same problem with my PSS when I first got it. After dorking around with it for about a year, sent it to smith, who trued receiver and bolt, set barrel back 0.9 inches, recut the chamber, and recrowned barrel. Damn thing punched .2's and .3's consistently. Barrel still fouled like a dog after a Mexican dinner though. Finally dumped it for a Hart 1:10. Original set back and cleanup cost $175.
Bill0294 <lhardin21@netscape.net>
Clearwater Hey I just found more hidden ballots!!, FL, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:23:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.92.205.193)

Bravo: The stat stuff I use is the same thing the NSA uses to catch spies. If there's something funny in the data, I can find it. So can the statisticians retained by Dubya. The quickest way to discredit their efforts would be for CNN to try to turn me into the "Montana Militia 2000". The propaganda war is being waged.

Will: We are on the same page on Gregory packs. They're good.

Wes: Can I keep my .338 for hunting elk? Other than that goofy belt, it's really just a .30-06 on steroids. With any kind of center hit, it brings 'em down right smartly. That saves arguments over whose elk it is and you don't have to pass up shots you would with a .30-06. With 250 gr partitions, you can eat right up to the bullet hole. Sounds about like your .35.

CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:23:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.30)

Wes and 700 PSS Freebore:

What Bill0294 said. Set back, rechamber and have the throat cut to your specs. My 700 PSS is the same way, but I have decided to live with .6 MOA untill I can approach that performance under field conditions, though I have a lathe and most other tooling to do it any time I actually *have* the time to do it. In the meantime, perhaps a recrown and looking at the bedding will help you. It certainly did in my case.

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:46:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.205.236)

I,am shooting a browning BPS pump shotgun with a 24 inch hasting barrel and a 3x9 leupold scope with a german post reticle.Does anyone have any sighting in info for the new winchester supreme partition gold sabot slugs 12 gauge 385grain sabot 1900 FPS high velocity.
clark r swain <railhog49@msn.com>
westerville, ohio, united states USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:26:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.27.57.127)

Moe, Actually we are both probably about even since I grew up down here, but left in my eighteenth year to spend my Holidays in boot camp (U Suckers Missed Christmas). After being gone for another 14 or so (not all in the Marines) I'm back. Believe me, I've been, there done that, in terms of the senior contingency. Back when I lived here before, Miami Beach was still a part of the US and was one giant "Senior Living" area. Many a time have I found myself in a line somewhere being held up while some Social Security beneficiary argued with some poor clerk about two pennies. Looks like when they made the great exodus out of Dade, before it was turned over to South America, they leapfrogged over most of Broward and hit PB. I may not live in PB, but I still say that some of you Bush voters might have voted for Gore in your "confusion" and that the only fair end might be to toss out the entire county. Maybe that gives Bush an advantage, but you know Bill Bradley, the messiah of fair elections, really is only interested in what's right, ao I'm sure he would agree. :-)
André <andrekp@yahoo.com>
Pompano Beach, Fl, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:51:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.63.234.162)

Gents.

Didn't mean to upset folks with my comments on belted mags...;-)

Will and Tom, PSS freebore excessive, but they do that so thier barrels will shoot any bullets. I suspect Remington uses the same .308 reamer specs for all thier guns. As noted, if you load to have your bullet just off the lands you're not going to be able to stuff them in the magazine.

I load all my match stuff to 2.800". As you noted having a .6 PSS is great, but until you can shoot to that standard you really don't need anything better. Note: Check the crown. Most can benefit from re-crowning.

Re-crowning: Boots Obermeyer and I have had some serious discussions on this. Most say an 11 degree or 22 degree is best. Boots did EXTENSIVE testing and uses a target style crown and breaks it with a
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett(By God), Oregon, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:23:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.248.53)

Gents, Oops. Hit the wrong key and sent the post before finished.

Re-crowning: As I said Boots Obermeyer breaks the rifling with a
60 DEGREE BEVEL. That is what turned out to work best in all his testing. We won't get into our discussion about gas dispersion around the base of the bullet! I used a 45 degree on my M40A1 clone and it works great. In this case, more seems better.

CDC...keep you .338 Magnum. It's a GREAT cartridge. You didn't see my post to Bravo762. I told him there were only two belted magnums worth a hoot...the .338 Winchester and the .375 H & H. You got a good one...

On that note I think I'll duck and seek cover. The rest of the belted magnum guys are probably locking and loading right now.

Semper Fi,

Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:31:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.248.53)

Anyone out there remember the name of the platoon commander of the original 5th Marine Scout/Sniper Platoon formed in Okinawa during February 1966. 1st Lt, short, wore glasses. Trying to fill in some of the gaps after 34 years.
Karl H. Grosshans <grshpr@inreach.com>
Lodi, CA, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:31:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.25.54.114)

I recently purchased a Remington 700 ADL in .308. My first choice was a 700 VS, but I couldn't find any dealers that had them in stock (I was told they have been on back order since January). Does anyone know of a way to change the barrel with one that is close to the barrel on the VS? Feel free to e-mail me direct if you have an answer. Thanks

Flyshooter
FlyShooter <Byoung0971@aol.com>
FL, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:09:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 172.171.113.238)

Wes: INCOMING!

O.K. What is so wrong about my 300 winmag, except it only gives about 5 loads per brass? It has great ballistics (which can be considered nothing more than a 308 magnum), and it is very accurate.

Most people only shoot 308 because they don't really need a magnum and that is perfectly understandable.

But why is the 300 winmag such a lousy round in your opinion?

Hank <ninesoft2@earthlink.net>
USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:11:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.31.4.162)

BRAVO- 7.5 Swiss.. an interesting cartridge, isn't it really a .308
bore diameter? I remember that in the 50's & 60's some
gunsmiths were trying to do conversions on those Swiss Schmidt-
Rubin 7.5's that were coming over from Europe at the time.
Most were converting to .308W because the length was right, the
bore size was the same, and just like the present .308W ammo
was plentiful and cheap. All of the 7.5 Swiss brass that I ever
saw back then was Berdan primed, was real expensive, and the
military stuff was very brittle. Problem was the straight-pull
Schmidt-Rubin action acted like a grenade at .308 pressures.
I lived in Utah then, and I remember that Ackley wouldnt touch
a conversion on this rifle. I don't know if modern 7.5 brass
is any better. Loading data that I've seen has the 7.5 w/150gr.
bullet & 45gr. of 4895 @2500fps, and the .308 w/150gr. bullet
& 46gr. of 4895 @2750 - so IMHO what's the point?

MOE- I know what you mean about a certain segment of the voters,
and I'm not predjudiced either! REALLY!! I think that they
only vote for what self-serving issues that their "leaders"
tell them to, and not what's best for the country. I wonder
how many people know that they are directly responsible for
the prescence of the Russian Mafia here in the US ? It seems
that after the breakup of the Soviet Union many influential
members of the Jewish community lobbied strongly with
politicians like Liberman, Feinstein, Chuckie Schumer and their
ilk to get the INS to relax immigration standards and get these
thugs to the US on the pretext of "religious persecution".
And now look what they're up to!

I'm praying for a Bush victory, then I'll have a BUSCH

ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
PALISADE, COLORADO, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:51:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.169.77.239)

Hank, Flyshooter, and all.

The .300 Winch wasn't mentioned because I was talking about hunting rounds. I should have been more clear. I consider the .300 an accuracy round. While it works well for elk I have other choices.
MY BIGGEST COMPLAINT with belted magnums is the variences in belt thickness from manufacturer to manufacturer. Size your brass on the shoulders datum line and you'll be OK. Other than that you get short case life.

The other problem is short barrel life. Many shoot out in 1200-1500 rounds where peak accuracy is concerned. That and being a whimp I don't like the recoil.

My 6.5 X .284 does what the .300 does with 190's and with the recoil of the .308. Case and barrel life is undertermined at this point, but we expect several thousand rounds

Flyshooter, on your .308 ADL...if you rebarrel go to the heavier/thicker barrel lug from Badger Ordinance. I also recomment a match tube and new stock. The barrel taper on the ADs is not set up for accuracy, but may do until you can upgraded. You'll want to glass bed, too.

Kind Regards,

Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 21:12:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.249.11)

In 'Gore, Hungry For Power', George Will is calling it a coup d'etat. The buttoned-down little dude has an eye like a jeweler.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64817-2000Nov11.html

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 21:21:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.58)

HS PRECISION HTR 308WIN BRAND NEW NOTHING MOUNTED. COMES WITH FREE NYLON CTD ROD AND BOREGUIDE AND NEW BURRIS(not mounted) SIGNATURE 30MM RINGS. $1850, I PAY SHIPPING. mar1489@yahoo.com
lar mani <mar1489@yahoo.com>
hagatna, guam, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 22:02:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 202.128.68.2)

Will...

On setting back the orignal 700 barrel... if you're going to spend the money for the labor, go ahead and replace the barrel with something fine... otherwise most of that labor is lost... these original Rem barrels are $18 to $35 dollar barrels. The difference in grouping will not be worth it, and there may be no difference AT ALL!!

Get something good, and knock your socks off!!

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 22:40:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.56)

CDC: that's what has been posted repeatedly on the PatriotsUSA site, as well as proofs of different types from different sources. People can call it what they will, but in the end, coup de etat will NOT be a correct bit of nomenclature. Heck, it's only the US Constitution. I've also tried the Gregory packs, and came away with good impressions. As for the Clinton News Network, well, they can throw all the media bias they want out there. Those of us who peg it for what it is don't bite. Those that do aren't serious anyway.

Alan: I was just looking at the 7.5 Swiss because by all logic, it should be a winner. By my calibrated eyeball, it appears to have approximately the same or more case capacity than the 30-06, but in a more theoretically accurate and efficient package. I wouldn't use it in something that had an unsupported ramp, but I was kind of thinking on a Rem 700. Yes, it's a true .308 diameter, according to my source. I'm thinking it was downloaded to use in that rifle, but in a more modern design it ought to be a real keeper. But Redding doesn't make BR dies for it, so it's really just a mental exercise at this point.
Bravo - Patriots USA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
LET IT BEGIN HERE!, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 22:50:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.163)

Wes,

Isn't an "accurate" round placed correctly the key to a sucessfull harvest of game? I do agree on the .375 H&H, make mine a Safari Grade Belgian Browning please. :-)

I believe the .300RUM is capable of just a wee bit more than 100 fps gain over a .300 Win. Mag. I am currently working on a CONSISTANT 190 GR @ 3200 fps load, within pressure specs, and believe that in a quality aftermarket barrel with slightly tighter chamber and leade, magical things may begin to happen. Time will tell.

Throat erosion is the price you pay for the dividends of flatter trajectory and F-A-S-T-E-R & larger payload. Last year it was whining about Varget being "potentially" erosive on the leade, this year its pooh-pooh the Belted Mags.

Dope It, Dial IT, DUMP IT!

Chao!

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 23:09:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.76)

Guys..........if the hand recount stands in florida then ALL votes in the USA should be recounted by hand to be a fair election. If not then did our vote really count since it appears to be a tactic to elec Gore which underminds the process? If so then we were stripped of our rights. SO can WE sue Gore for doing this to us? Hmmmmmmmmmm

McGrath
John McGrath <jkmcgrath@home.com>
Springfield, Missouri (First to ever elect a dead man. Wasted our most sacred gift. Votes!!!!!!), USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 23:19:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.255.84)

"Lito-san...what you are saying is that it is cheaper to buy a new barrel with a short chamber cut to mag tolerances than to have the current barrel reset ?? You surely jest !! For that matter...where did this crazy idea that HAMMER FORGED Barrels are so bad ?? fer kee-rists sake...I've shot as well with either factory barrel as I have the ruger with the Douglas XX gaged barrel with a Timmney trigger...in fact it seems that clean up with the hammer forged barrels is easier too. Maybe I got lucky, real lucky..so my barrels weren't made on a Monday or Friday...hopefully a Tues !! H&K uses hammer forged and their barrels aren't crap...so will someone tell me, "Whats wrong with the factory barrel??"

Evidently my wallet is slimmer (than others) and I have better ways to spend my limited budget than drop a barrel that already does a FINE and I mean F I N E job. I just wanted to know the feasibility & cost to have the barrel set back/whateverthehell ya call it so the freebore isn't so bloody long. So I can load 5 rounds at one time and rapid fire. Is that asking so much ??

Think I'll just advance to the rear and let the big spenders explain while I mutter and plot devious deeds.

OUT friggin HERE !!
Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 23:42:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.147.176)

Think I'll just advance to the rear and let the big spenders explain while I mutter and plot devious deeds.

OUT friggin HERE !!
Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 23:46:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.147.176)

Total muck up on the double post...must be the full moon and all the democrapic idjuts I have to deal with at work.

Later,
Will
Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 23:51:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.147.176)

This may be obvious to alot of you but I have not seen this information here so I wanted to share it.

I use a Mk4 M3 scope but use 175 SMK handloaded to about 2500 FPS. Since my cam is for the 168 SMK I knew it would not be the same.

What I did to resolve the problem is figured out the load I would use and chronographed it. Then put that data into a ballistic program. I used 1 minute clicks for the scope data in the program. I took this data to my scope and started counting clicks up from a 100 Yard zero.

This is what I came up with:
100 1
200 2
300 3
400 4
500 5
600 -1 clicks from 6
700 -2 clicks from 7
800 -3 clicks from 8
900 -4 clicks from 9
1000 -5 clicks from 10

This data was written on small slip of paper and taped into my scope cover so it is visible when open.

I have shot my rifle with this data to 1000 Yards on a KD range and it works well. Though the scope does not allow for precise hit it will hit a man sized target to 1000 yards.

I took me a while to figure this out so I wanted to share it to save someone else the trouble.

Using this type of logic any cam would work for any load just the difference would need to be recorded. Better yet would be to stamp a blank cam with your pet load data.

Keep Shooting, Allan
Allan <Falshooter42@yahoo.com>
Ut, USA - Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 23:55:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.130.4.100)

Will, on S$B match .308.... the best info I could garner on this from this year's SHOT show was that there is but one source for it. This turns out to be nothing but a Mom and Pop operation, at least judging by the fact that I left them 4 messages and they never called back. Very disappointing as I have found the S&B stuff to be generally very good and a very good value, so I assume their match .308 would be at least worth trying. Surprising that they would restrict their .308 match to but one outlet. The best deal in S&B ammo is their 12 ga. OO buckshot. Very inexpensive, very high quality. 12 pellets instead of 9, but not a magnum load. The only downside is the stinky horsehair wads! The worst S&B I have seen is, unfortunately, the .308 ball. Steel jacketed, Berdan primed, not particularly accurate, misfire prone. If you find some of their match .308, please let me know! Would still like to try it.

I also got a line on some Portugues .308 match at the SHOT show but again could not get a response from the 1-only in USA source.
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
3R, MI, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 00:26:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.136.19)

Good evening gentlemen. I have an interesting AR-15 accuracy problem, and I'm trying to get several opinions on the possible source of the problem.

I have several AR's, one of which is a heavy barrel Colt CAR, with 1 in 9 twist. Unlike any of my other AR's, this CAR will not shoot heavy (68 gr Hornady/69 gr Sierra) bullets into 3" at 100 yards. The amazing thing is that it will shoot 52 grain Hornady HPBT just fine; about 3/4" at 100 yds. (Like all of my other rifles, the CAR has a good trigger, and a free floating handguard).

When I first encountered this problem, I not only tried my favoride handloads (H-335, WW-748, Varget, 2230), but I fired factory ammo too, including Federal and Black Hills Match, and Hornady.

Results were the same: Lousy accuracy with the heavier bullet. Note that the bullets are not hitting the flash hider, either.

Any comments out there? Most of the responses I've received to date revolve around replacing the barrel.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Mike D <mdodson@navi.net>
Lake Oswego, OR, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 02:01:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.222.143.37)

Will...
"Lito-san...what you are saying is that it is cheaper to buy a new barrel with a short chamber cut to mag tolerances than to have the current barrel reset ?? You surely jest !!"

Well, yes and no. lookie. the money, like $150-$175, is total labor that is lost on a $18 (cromoly) to $35 (if stainless) barrel. When you set it back, you still hae a cheap POS of a barrel, but with a good (maybe) chamber. Better that even money, it won't shoot ant better... What the hell kinda dumb stuff is that?? ;((

Send your barreled action to a good outfit, like Douglas, or one of the many good guyz, and have them do it for you. They do it better, faster, and you wind up with a good shootin piece... you can even specify what throat you want... and they will match the contour.

Now, as to the money... will they do it for the same money as it would cost to have the old one set back... no... but it won't be too much more, and you will have a really good barrel, and it will clean up slickie quick! ;))

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 02:32:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.74)

Guys back from the training class from hell. I was just not ment to be in an office enviornement.

Pete, the 300 Ultra Mag is about 100fps over the 300 Win. I can get 3100 out of my 300 win with 190's and 2850 with 220's with ease. I like the Dope it Dial It Dump it. Now where have I heard that?

Bored with the election crap and can not beleave it has been allowed to go on so long. Bush is President! I wont except any other! This crap that if all the guys that voted for Nader had voted for Gore, Gore would be President. Well if all the guys that voted for Gore had voted for Nader, Nader would be President. Bottom line is Bush won lets get on with it.

Undude
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 02:34:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.191)

Cory -

You don't know what you've missed by not living anywhere else. I grew up in Taxachusetts where the Kennedys hold Court. Man, them was fun years! Florida just has a more, er, "diverse" group of morons living here. :-))

Andre -

You gotta admit, things have changed here a bit, huh? HA! LOL!

A Shooting Question!!!!

I am using Federal 168 gr GMM to break in and sight in my Rem 700 PSS. I was under the assumption that .308 and 7.62 are equivalent rounds. I know that .223 and 5.56 are not exactly equals - I use only 5.56 in my Colt. How much difference is there between the .308 and the 7.62 cartridges? Would I notice any benefits to using one over the other? And who manufactures 7.62? Maybe I just wasn't paying attention, but I don't recall seeing any 7.62 at the gun shop.

Moe

Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
JESSSSEEEE!!!!!!! JESSSSEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!, FL, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 02:38:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.198.168)

Gents,

Just got done cleaning my custom .35 Whelan Improved. Put it away and arranged the safe a bit. The rifles most accessible are now my M40A1 clone, the Chandler Sniper 6.5 X .284, and my .308 Rem Varmint Special. Guess you know what I'll be playing with this winter.

Have had several posts about my comments on magnums. I'll stand by them. On the other hand you guys that are using them or testing new calibers please share. That's how we learn from each other.

My winter project is stocking my custom 1909 Argentine small ring Mauser in .284 Winchester. It's gonna be a beaut! When completed I'll try to take some .jpg's and post them to you.

Looks like it's gonna be coyote's and crows from here on out. Anything to keep primed. You guys got an good recipes for them...?

If any of you are going to be in the western central oregon area give me a call 541-453-4054 (home) or 541-715-5915 at work. Will be happy to set up a get together and spend time.

Semper Fi,

Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 02:49:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.248.72)

Hey guys,
It's been a while since I posted on this topic but here goes...I'm still considering going into the service. Last time I got all sorts of great e-mails and ideas from many, and they were all greatly appreciated. My question is this....just it case I do decide to go in, I've been shootin' my Bushmaster (or B.M. heh heh heh...I said B.M.) quite a bit. It's a 16"-er, would I be better off to switch to a 20" upper for more "authentic" practice or should I keep blazing away with the carbine?
Thanks a mil(dot)
Rich S. <RS1441@aol.com>
Baltimore 'hon, MD, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 02:56:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.62)

Rich: If you can hit with the 16" Bushie, you can hit with the A2. Use the $$ on ammo. Thinking of going in? You may want to wait until the coup sorts itself out. Command may get even more squirrely than it is now.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 03:17:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.14)

Hello Guys:

Wrote to Moses at the NRA today.

Wrote to my two senators expressing my outrage as to how my states electoral votes were stolen in one city and asked for a recount of that county.

Recommend to you:
www.snipercountry.com/IRSniper.html
(Infra Red Detection and the Sniper)
www.geocities.com/pentagon/Quarters/2116/camie.htm
(Camie stick alone is not enough)

The election is in the process of being stolen going before a Democratic judge in the AM for U guys not following the flow.

Gentlemen the shit has hit the fan. Are we going to have represenative/national goverment or Communist/socialist/united nations/world goverment.

I personally swore an oath to defend the United States of America against enemies foreign and DOMESTIC some thirty years ago.
I've kept up my skills. I put on my cold zero today.

The warriors of America have an obligation to stabilize this society for your children and my children

LORD LET THIS PASS ME

But in the words of the founders

DON'T TREAD ON ME
SGT. SCHULTZ <bravo762@yahoo.com>
USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 03:53:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.252.4)

Rich, If you are going to join, talk to someone who is on active duty now. I am at Ft. Meade and a a gun club I am joined with is shooting here on the 19th. We are all active duty or retired and can help you in your decision.....Serving Old Glory With PRIDE!!
SSG Adam G. Scott <ADAMGSCOTT@msn.com>
Severn, Md, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 03:59:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.240.184.58)

Hey Big SGT...Don't sweat it! There is no way Gore will win. This is the Democrats last gasp at futility. The overseas military ballots will sink Gore. He is just doing what he can to counter it cause he knows he is a LOSER!!!!
SSG Adam G. Scott <ADAMGSCOTT@msn.com>
Severn, Md, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 04:05:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.240.184.58)

Ken or Marius: could I get an ID on this guy? SGT. SCHULTZ bravo762@yahoo.com USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 03:53:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.252.4)

I don't really appreciate his sense of humor. But this doesn't surprise me, as it was Perecles that said "if you speak logic to a fool, he looks upon you as an idiot".
Bravo - PatriotsUSA <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
I hate it when folks don't have the backbone to sign someone other than MY name!, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 04:23:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.195)

Hello Wes,
I'm starting the initial work on a couple of mauser projects for the winter. I've got two Yugoslav M48's on the way, and also two German K98's. The Yugo guns are going to be a 6.5-06 and a 338-06, and I'm still kinda up in the air on what I'm going to do with the K98's. I might make one into a 7x57 or I may leave it as a 8x57, I don't know. I might just see what they look like and then use one to get a good issue K98 out of it. I'm looking at using the Bell&Carlson Carbelite stocks for the Yugo guns and I'll probably get a nice grey laminate stock for one of the K98's and spend some time with a router and some Acraglass to make a nice looking gun out of it. Anybody tried these Zero laminate stocks listed in the Brownells catalog? Opinions. Maybe I'll use it to make a 280Improved target gun. Open to suggestions, no 308Win please, got enough of those. Unfortunately I may need to use it for real sooner rather than later if the crap in FL continues. Hope I'm wrong. Semper Fidelis...Kem M
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
IL, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 04:55:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.252.96)

My stepson's tastes in guns run along the lines of "really big and holds a lot of bullets". Taurus 608 and Mossberg 590 are what he has now.

Now he's looking for a rifle and wants a .50 bmg. His budget is about $4,000. Any suggestions? His main use for it would be putting holes in oil drums at long range.
pete robertson <abelaird_knight@yahoo.com>
colorado springs, Colorado, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 05:00:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.227.178.120)

Moe'; the .308 and 7.62 are the ones that are slightly different but don't sweat it. either one will work and interchange in most guns. With out any significan problems. The 5.56 and the .223 are the same as far as I know. You may be thinking of the loadings being different as you can see on other posts here. The heavier Loads of the military or now even Target people have to have a different twist rate to stabilize the bullet. But pay it no mind the difference. It's .308 Winchester or very very close just a few thousandths in some chambers. Someone will have the exact measurments but right off hand I'd just have to surf to find them.

Bravo; would that be your twin brother duffy? Perhaps he is in a parallel universe? He seems to have the same problems we do here?

On those 300's don't waste too much time trying to make the .300 Win mag a 300 weatherby .. you'll be disappointed with the accuracy anyway. The variation in cases do make a difference. That's why I always advocate fire forming them and reloading with optimum case length. The Ultra Mag should eliminate the problem. Many people think that the belted case is superior, I just don't belong in the same bar with them. I know this stuff is fun but don't get too far into the bizzare if you want a practical rifle. The Wildcat bugs will eat you up if you get too far out. Ammo and case problems will eventually make you wish you'd stayed with the standards but don't let me spoil your fun ...

Rich; the 20" may be better for accuracy and speed. I believe it's a magic number for AR's. Carbines are cute and have their place but my experience is that the 20" out perform enough that it's worth it if you want accuracy and range. Something about the harmonics at 20" I dunno for sure?

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 05:44:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

Rosterhogs,

check this rifle out !

http://www.amp-ts.com/DSR%20No%201.htm

looks like I have a new toy on my wish list for christmas.

t
click here for a look at the AMP <7.62@lasercon.de>
germany - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 09:31:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.159.89.156)

Ref. Twist Rate

I think I've counted the ballots correctly and the outcome seems to be in favor of the .308 & 175 BTHP & 1:10 twist. I'm about to have one of my rigs rebarreled so stop me if I'm wrong here.

I took Andy to see "Charlies Angels" last night. It was a good thing.
Kevin R. Mussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 10:00:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.198.31)

Mike,
Not to be confrontational, but what type of case life are you getting and what is the approximate chamber pressure for 3100 with the 190's? I'm not yet even pushing the pressure envelope with the .300 RUM, the bus fare back to the range for each shot is getting too darn expensive. ;-)

FWIW:
Dope It - Dial It - Dump It is to the best of my memory a Un-Dude original from last years Roster Wars about something that ended up being inane, benign, oh WHATEVER.

Ofta nurse a deviated septum garnered finding out what a twenty year youth advantage over Geezerdom gains in the ring..........

Cha-Ouch!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 11:44:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.52)

Bill & others who emailed me -

Thanks on the .308/7.62 query. It appears to be a case of semantics, huh? If we're just talking about different loadings, I'm not concerned. I don't handload, yet! In my Colt AR15, I use the Win Q3131A or IMI M193 only. These are apparently loaded hotter than some of the local stuff and more importantly my gun likes them. My POI with either is nearly identical which saves me from having to brain fart with a re-zero if I switch. I initially tried a bunch of different brands and the POI were all over the place. Real BS!

Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Recount Central, FL, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 11:59:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.198.181)

20" vs 16" AR: For me, 20" every time. But if a guy had a 16" to use as a trainer, shoot it 'till the barrel falls off. My 2 cents.

SSG Adam G. Scott and all military: Thanks for your service to our country. Your work is respected and apreciated.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:48:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.86)

20" vs 16"..A2 vs M4.....I was stationed at Ft. Stewart and they were transitioning our company from the A2 to the M4. You wouldn't believe the drastic drop in range scores. People were saying that the range was screwed up. It all came out to the proper application of shooting fundamentals. Fellow soldiers who started out with the M4 had better scores when they shot the A2 than the other way around.

CDC....Thank you for the remark in serving. I have 8 in and just re-enlisted for 6 more. Running a range tommorow in Martinsburg, West VA. Damn I love shooting free ammo.....
SSG Adam G. Scott <ADAMGSCOTT@msn.com>
Severn, Md, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:16:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.240.184.58)

I have an apology to make. I said that "...command could get even squirreler than it is now." I was talking about civilian command, not the officer corps. I shouldn't even have said that. The American people elected the guy. He's the C in C. I'm a William Buckley Republican, not some half-ass revolutionary.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:23:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.53)

SGT. SCHULTZ...

Is that "THE" famous "Sgt. Schultz", the bumbling asshole idiot from the TV series???
Find your balls and backbone, and stand up like a man with your own e-mail address, not a whimpering, skulking, faggot, that steals someone elses... the e-mail address "" belongs to one of our regulars, and I think he's not too pleased with you right now!!

Pete Robertson...

For a 50 BMG, look at the AR-50. After a year of looking around, this puppy R-U-L-E-S... the gun, good (MK4 or B&L Tac) scope, and the little crap, will leave you with enough change from his $4k, that he can take you to "Wendy's" for a Bacon Cheeseburger.

I just ordered two of them (one for a friend)... go here.

http://www.armalite.com/

... and poke around.

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:27:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.76)

Pete, honestly I do not use a case loaded toward max.more than one reload. I once had a case come apart and always go for max protection when reloading. When the free supply of brass comes to a hault this may change ( I retire). The only exception is the 338 Lapua. The brass costs so much I have some Lapua brand with six or seven loads in them but I use lighter loads (if you can call any 338 Lapua load light) If I could only justify the round a s a duty one. On the Dope it Dial It Dump it. I remember just funning you. By the way discussion is not confrontational.LOL

On setting back a factory bbl. The major cost of a match bbl is the labor so if you want a match set up get a new bbl and have it installed. If you go with a recut original keep in mind the following You Can Not Polish A Turd!

Wes, I agree the 300'as are accuracy rounds. If I was hunting something too big for a 30-06 I would step up to atleast a 338 Win. Big holes make more damage.

CDC and others on the 16 versus 20 AR's. I agree the 20" will shoot better at distance than the 16", but for me I prefer the 16 for carry, entry ands as a second weapon to my sniper weapon. If I used the AR for primary in a typical North America enviornment the 20 would win hands down, but with a sniper rifle on my back I want a 16 light bbl in my hands. Kind of a very longrange pistol.

Pablito, an AR50. Dude that thing will shoot very well but you need a Dolly to carry it, 42lbs without a scope or ammo. The Barrett 99 is 23lbs and shoots under one moa. also. Once you strat messing with 50's your bank balance will go to hell.LOL

Undude
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:41:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 148.165.83.143)

Will,
'litos right(As usaual) You would be money ahead to just have it rebarreled