Sniper Country Duty Roster

Bobby, thanks for the update. You guys always do a GREAT job running the matches. Wish I could have made this one. I always enjoy going up there and shooting.

SFC Pete Carpentier JR
C.C., TX, USA - Monday, October 1, 2007, at 01:54:19 (ZULU)

The link (my name) is to a non-public Picasa web page with photos of my M40. I no longer own this rifle, but I have seen these photos posted on two other tactical rifle sites, so they are already out there on the net.

These are photos of a late rifle (1968-9?), with the rounded corners on the Redfield base. The SN was just outside the known USMC SN range. I am not claiming that it was a USMC rifle, only that it has the same features. These photos may be helpful if anyone is trying to build a clone on their own. They show the clip slot, muzzle, location of US and SN markings, correct Redfield scope, stock, and parkerizing color.

When I purchased it, the rifle had a rubber butt pad, Harris bi-pod and UM QD sling swivel mounts. These appear to be the "after-market" alterations. One expert thought he knew the origins/agency source of the rifle by the add-ons. I have no idea. Again, I don't know the source of the rifle after Remington. But the photos illustrate some of the features that people have tired to duplicate in their copies, so they might be helpful to someone. This rifle is contemporary with VN era USMC rifles.

The webmaster link on the photo page did not work for me, so if anyone wants to copy these for the SC photo album, feel free.

P. Hayden
USA - Monday, October 1, 2007, at 02:39:06 (ZULU)

Joe,

Please let me know how the epoxy workbench surface works out. As for your previous workbench selling the house for ya, I've heard of that happening several times. One guy had pics of his reloading bench with his big blue press with all the bells and whistles on it on his real estate listing, and the buyer said that was what sold him. His wife liked the house, he just wanted the bench and loading setup.

As for the shooting bench, I'd considered building one out of 3 concrete slabs. My favorite shooting spot, in our north pasture is rocky as hell, so I figured I could drill the rock, drive some rebar, and make a bench/picnic table that wouldn't be stolen by the trespassers from the public lake, chewed by the horses, or knocked over by cattle rubbing on it.PLUS, being as it's nearly solid rock right there, it's nearly chigger free.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, October 1, 2007, at 07:41:27 (ZULU)

Catman, man the crap you have to go through makes me wnat to bring back Medeval Justice.

You going to Shot Show this year? Maybe dinner?

Bobbie, made the offer through Mike D to give some slings to event. Guess you did not get message. I make it here again for next match.

Jim R., you ever work for the Saudis? If so you mind answering some questions?

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
Ca, - Monday, October 1, 2007, at 14:35:35 (ZULU)

UnDudeski...

Not this year.

I expect the state of Connecticut to be on fire about the time of the Shot Show... and I'm gonna be the arsonist.

I'm going to be filing federal R.I.C.O. charges against a sitting judge - Double HA!! as Pat (HA!) would say. I already have the evidence and transcripts.

It probably won't get prosecuted, but the little shit has some mud coming... A lawyer told me not to file complaints against "big" lawyers or BIG law firms, etc, cuz they will get even with you, but they already did that... so at this point, there's nothing they can do to me anymore. Jase' lost two years of his education, and I lost two years of Jase', and they can't fix that. So like they say, "From this point on, the rest are free." I can file all the charges I want against the bunch from the first trial - there is nothing they can do, cuz by the time the charges are filed, Jase' will be 16, and he files in a different judicial district.

So by the time of the Shot Show... I'll be the one hiding out in the Everglades in the witness protection program :)))))))))))))))))

But next year is a definite, and the beer (and Rum) are on me and the Rat ;) I'll have Bravo as a body guard ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 1, 2007, at 14:59:23 (ZULU)

Mike,

No, never worked for them. I have a close friend who has for many years. Maybe I can get you some answers to your questions. If you e-mail me your questions I can forward them to Rick Martin and see what he says.

S/F

Finger

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Monday, October 1, 2007, at 15:57:46 (ZULU)

'lito,

12 groove barrel country:

Boots and I came to the same conclusion, and I haven't given him any prompting..We're both kind of thinking it could have been made for Marlin as a one off, possibly a blank for an employee who then fobbed it off later..Have you ever had the bore diameter measured(diameter of lands)?

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Monday, October 1, 2007, at 18:11:03 (ZULU)

JR...

>" 'lito, 12 groove barrel country:

Boots and I came to the same conclusion, and I haven't given him any prompting... We're both kind of thinking it could have been made for Marlin as a one off, possibly a blank for an employee who then fobbed it off later... Have you ever had the bore diameter measured (diameter of lands)?

JR"<

I have never measured the lands or the grooves - had no need to.

Here's what I CAN tell you.. The smith was once an employee of the Remington Custom shoppe, before retiring and opening a small business in his garage.

At the Remington Custom shoppe, he built the benchrest and match rifles, (not the custom "DELUX" engraved rifles").

So I don't think it was Marlin... but Marlin DID try to get into the match business some years back, and I "think" they built some pretty high end match rifles that were not for public consumption.

Maybe he got it from a friend at Marlin... it has the nicest bore I have ever seen. When you look into the muzzle of a good stainless steel barrel, it is dark gray, but looks like stainless steel... when you look into this bore, it is so smooth that it looks mirror black.

Who ever made it, sure know what the hell they were doing.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 1, 2007, at 19:21:50 (ZULU)

Any of you guys have a old Baush and Lomb 10x tactical that's collecting dust (NOT the Bushnell POS) - I have a very good friend that building a project riffle that is looking for one.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 1, 2007, at 19:29:57 (ZULU)

'lito,

Its a funny thing with barrels, you can get one of a kind from any number of sources, especially if the makers, individuals who are also shooters who provide for their own wares...a lapped marlin is not out of the question atall..perhaps Rem custom shop was trying an idea out...Regardless, you got a good stick..

You need parkin space for that airboat? Think dad has the drawings still for the airboat on ski's for the wintertime, might come in handy in CT..

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Monday, October 1, 2007, at 19:53:21 (ZULU)

Guys,

What kinda metal would be needed to make blades to use a table router to cut aluminum? Would a normal table router spin fast enough to make repeated 1/4 in deep cuts, say for finger jointing? (still trying to invent my own job)

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, October 2, 2007, at 09:30:35 (ZULU)

Carbide would be best, but plain ol' good quality HS steel will do it.

Just don't feed the work too fast, because the blade will heat up and loose the hardness.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, October 2, 2007, at 14:28:23 (ZULU)

Back on September 23rd, I started this thead of riffle cleaning by saying...

>"Cleaning Riffles.

YOU CAN'T!!"<

Well, the first three or four riffles I did had top of the line barrels.

I just finished doing a Remington, 700 CDL Ltd, .17 FireBall with a factory barrel.

17 Cal centerfires are noted for fouling, and the tube on this puppy is NOT a custom, hand lapped, $500 goodie... it is a run of the mill Remington, stainless fluted medium weight, off of the truck (that came from God knows where)...

... and it is clean, down the the bare stainless steel!!

So... I will change the lead in to this thread:

Cleaning Riffles.

YOU CAN'T!!... if you use bronze brushes!

And I can't tell you how painful that is to say - I have been using bronze brushes since the "Bronze age", back when they invented the match lock :((

It turns out that the bronze brush will leave more copper in the bore than the damn bullet left from shooting... so as you scrub, you lay down the next layer of copper... and you run a patch through it, it comes out dark green, and you are convinced that you have to brush the bore more to get the green out...

... I think en-ga-neers call that a "feed back loop"... but dogs call it "Chasing your own tail"!!

It appears that the path is to use a nylon/aluminum or nylon/plated steel brush with powder solvent to get the gook out, then use a copper dissolver to get the copper out.

I'm not done with this, I just thought I'd give you guys a summery of where I am right now.

My next step is to measure exactly how much copper (bronze) a brush leaves in the barrel by brushing. Some guys say that the brushes loose copper from the solvent - but I will take a brand new brush, clean it with break cleaner, dry it, weigh it - and then use it to scrub the bore, using kerosene, instead of solvent.

Then wash it with break cleaner again, dry it, and weight it again.

I'll let you know what happens.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, October 2, 2007, at 23:00:25 (ZULU)

Heeeeellooooow...

Is there any intelligent life out there, or did the BATF cut Ken's T-1 cable?????

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, October 3, 2007, at 02:31:35 (ZULU)

re: the hunt for intelligent life

I think I can fake it :-)

Geek humor:

Overheard one of my co-workers asking over the phone if they were talking to a real live person.

The Turing Test sprang to mind...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, October 3, 2007, at 03:30:07 (ZULU)

I don't claim any intellegence, but I'm here...

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Wednesday, October 3, 2007, at 03:31:00 (ZULU)

Rod,

I don't think I have ever changed the bolt gas rings on my SP-1 AR in over 20 or about 20,000 rounds (approximately). I have noticed no ill effects. Can't hurt. I am interested in what others are doing.

Lito: I will try to get the article in the mail to you Thursday

Pat II
Wednesday, October 3, 2007, at 04:04:25 (ZULU)

'Lito,

What I'm wondering about your whole project here, is how this deep cleaning is affecting accuracy. Have you kept records on how a rifle shot both before and after this treatment? I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out. Everyone has heard that you can ruin accuracy by overcleaning a barrel, and I wonder at what point this happens.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, October 3, 2007, at 04:54:03 (ZULU)

Cleaning

I don't remember who mentioned mixing Hoppe's#9 and Kroil, but i'll tell you i'm liking that recipe.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Wednesday, October 3, 2007, at 10:23:06 (ZULU)

Yo 'Lito,

Ya, I'm here too. Not intelligent enough to rate, but I'm here.

Still waiting for the cheque. Insurance companies truly are the bane of mankind.

They sell a product, and do whatever they can, to avoid supplying the product that they sell. Then, when the government owns/is the insurance company, it gets exponentially worse.

Then, take into context that the laws require the product to be bought, by everyone, with another law stating that no other companies can supply said product, it is quite a vicious circle. Most definitely a situation where the government should not be in business to be in business.

Now back to "our government sucks". And people keep voting for this crap.

God Bless, and Stay Safe,

Sean

I truly look forward to this coming to an end, so that I can take my missus out, and we can actually do some shooting. It has been too many years, since we have been able to do so.

Sean Thomas
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada - Wednesday, October 3, 2007, at 14:26:54 (ZULU)

'Lito-if kerosene turns out to be a good bore cleaner, more than lawyers will be looking for blood.

Routing aluminum-as fast as a router spins, you're going to have to lubricate the cutting head, even with a carbide tool. A spray/mist of some type would be best at that speed-which is way higher than usual for machining metal. Maybe one of those deck sprayers would work, check with a machine shop on appropriate lubricant. Kerosene might work.

Assumming you're gonna hand feed this thing, wear eye protection and, if posssible, body armor. Carbide teeth that come loose are bullets.

WR Moore
Wednesday, October 3, 2007, at 17:09:08 (ZULU)

Speaking of "No intelligent life..."

I went to the range to check the zero of my .300win. Wind was 10mph or so from 6:00. I set a target at 500yds, dialed it, got into bipod/beanie baby prone, shot and cracked myself between the eyes with the scope.

Imagine my embarassment.

A guy on the line came over, looked at the blood on my face and openly smirked. I deserved it.

The .300 is set up like my .220, and I'm much too used to shooting the .220. The butt was not pulled into my shoulder with enough force and the full weight of my head was not resting on the comb. Rookie foul-ups 1-A and 1-B.

The 5 shot group was 5.25". Three shots were in 1.5". The zero is fine.

CDC'
Wednesday, October 3, 2007, at 18:50:54 (ZULU)

Travis ,You might want to put a speed controller on that Router.

30,000 + RPM's is a bit TOO fast.

Also checkout " McMaster-Carr " for End Mills that would be more suitable for Alumnium.

And as mentioned BE CAREFUL !!!!!!!

Regards,

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, US of A - Wednesday, October 3, 2007, at 20:54:04 (ZULU)

CDC',

Don't feel bad. An engineer came into work Monday with butterfly band-aids on his eyebrow. He wasn't paying attention when he pulled the trigger on a rifle. I was expecting him to tell me it was a 416-Rigby or something.... but a 308 it was.

Then again... he IS an engineer..... :8-o

Duman
Wednesday, October 3, 2007, at 22:02:25 (ZULU)

An interesting thread on COMCAST "Are Handguns really necessary?"

These are comments from the peanut gallery. FWIW.

Click on my name to go to the URL

Trajan Aurelius
East Bay, Kalifornia, USA - Wednesday, October 3, 2007, at 22:22:29 (ZULU)

WR Moore...

The Kerosene is not for cleaning. If I want to see how much copper is deposited on the barrel by the brush, WITHOUT putting a solvent on it, I still have to use some "neutral" liquid, or it is not a fair test.

So the kerosene is just to keep the brush wet, like a bore cleaner would, without actually taking a chance the the bore cleaner is dissolving the brush... make sense (I hope)?

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, October 4, 2007, at 02:39:19 (ZULU)

'Lito,

How did you arrive at the conclusion that Kerosene would be "neutral"?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, October 4, 2007, at 10:32:05 (ZULU)

Travis...

>" 'Lito, How did you arrive at the conclusion that Kerosene would be "neutral"?"<

Cuz Kerosene doesn't dissolve copper.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, October 4, 2007, at 17:10:52 (ZULU)

Gents,

Contrary to the rumor I AM still alive. Bravo has been checking on me occasionally...

Seems I've missed a lot about what has been happening to our members. Sounds like it's not been all good.

The usual talk about barrels, cleaning, rifles, etc. Interesting, but not earth shattering. Yours truely decided long ago to continue doing what has worked for me and stop trying everything else "new and improved". Seems like it always comes back to Hoppes #9 and Shooter's Choice, anyway...;-)

Well, it works for me.

Lito, my heart goes out to you and "Ruggus Rattus". Didn't get the full story, but it sounds all too familiar. Especially, after what Bravo and a couple of my friends have been through in the past few years. Government steps in and does "what's best" for the situation and they don't have a clue. Except to cover their collective asses and smile smuggly while proclaiming another win for their side.

Each day I work with truely bad men and see the worst society has to offer and it sickens me. At the other end of the spectrum we have our legal/political system that seems spun out of control and that sickens me equally. One is supposed to protect you from the former while it seems the latter, however well intentioned, causes as much or more damage.

Of course, I may be overly sensitized to this right now as I just finished my second reading of "Unintended Consequences".

Rifle Question: There seems to be a number of AR style .308 platforms at present. Makers seem to be Armalite and DPMS. Had heard that Bushmaster was going to build a .308 platform, but that has been cancelled. Also, the possibility that Rock River was going to start production. What seems to be performing the best and is the best dollar value of the factory offerings?

Can't compare my own AR-10 because it's a G.A. Precision custom and all semblance of "factory" ended with the upper/lower action. I do love it.

Latest project is a Ruger #1 custom. More on that later. It's going to be a beauty...

As always your experience, thoughts, pontifications, etc. are solicited(hell, you're gonna give them anyway!).

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Thursday, October 4, 2007, at 19:35:19 (ZULU)

Wes: the late Walker Percy was asked by an interviewer if, as a writer, he felt estranged from society. He replied, "Only properly estranged. If I felt less estranged, I couldn't write, and if I felt more estranged, I would drink all the time."

I feel estranged from much of what passes for American culture as reflected in politics, in the fat, undisciplined people with maxed out credit cards and no savings and gang bangers I see on the streets - and I regard that estrangement as a good thing. I can't watch TV any more, either.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Thursday, October 4, 2007, at 20:43:17 (ZULU)

small rear rifle bags for field usage...

(Those sock-like things)

Now that I have lost a lot of weight, I'm lower to the ground when shooting prone. I may now be able to use a small rear field bag with a rifle, an option that was not available to me earlier.

Who is currently selling nice pre-fab rear rifle rest bags for field usage? They don't seem to have a "standard" name that I can discern, which makes looking for such on the web tedious.

I would prefer a design I can fill myself, since the product will likely be shipped to me trans-border. That will reduce shipping costs and delays with Canada Customs.

Something along these lines would be nice:

http://www.dog-gone-good.com/

Holland Field Bag - 3x4x5

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, October 4, 2007, at 22:00:20 (ZULU)

Gentlemen,

Lito: You have snail mail enroute.

Rod: For a stock bag, I took an old pair of BDU's, used the drawsting closed end made a sack and filled it with triple bagged rice. I did this while in the military, so if push comes to shove, you can eat the contents of your stock bag. It also make a preety good stock/rest bag. Recreational/LE sniper, likely things won't get that bag, but who knows. FWIW.

Pat II
Thursday, October 4, 2007, at 23:06:01 (ZULU)

Sir Wesley...

WHERE THE HELL YOU BEEN, MANG!!

>"Lito, my heart goes out to you and "Ruggus Rattus". Didn't get the full story, but it sounds all too familiar. Especially, after what Bravo and a couple of my friends have been through in the past few years. Government steps in and does "what's best" for the situation and they don't have a clue. Except to cover their collective asses and smile smuggly while proclaiming another win for their side."<

But the worm turns.

On Monday, I filed a new motion, called "Plaintiff's motion to compel production of documents... bla, bla, bla... for the cocurt to order the "psychologist" to give me copies of ALL documents, e-mails, etc, from EVERYBODY, for the following reasons...

---

(From the motion)...

The Plaintiff in the above matter represents to this honorable court, that on or about, September 15th, 2007, Dr. Sidney Horoxxxx finished a report which is the conclusion of a lengthy court ordered evaluation of the plaintiff, the defendant, and the minor child.

The Plaintiff further represents to this honorable court the following:

1 – That the original Family Services Report for the above matter was completed by Leah Marxxx Fuxxx of the Bridgeport FRO, and was submitted on or about December 8th 2006.

2 – That this court (by Judge Tierxxx) ordered the original Family Services Report to be updated to include the findings and/or recommendations of Dr. Sidney Horoxxxx.

3 – That this update by Ms. Leah Marxxx Fuxxx was completed and submitted to this court, on or about September 11th, 2007.

4 – That the comments and opinions attributed to Dr. Horoxxxx in the updated FRO report are inconsistent with, and contrary to, accepted published definitions and standards of the Connecticut DCFS (Department of Children and Families Services), relating to child neglect and child abuse.

5 – That the comments and opinions attributed to Dr. Horoxxxx in the updated FRO report are inconsistent with, and contrary to, the actual facts of the defendant’s behavior towards the child, during the five year period of September, 2002, through September, 2007.

6 - That the plaintiff has requested a copy of this report, and was advised that Dr. Horoxxxx would not supply a copy of the report to the plaintiff.

7 – That the plaintiff, who is Pro Se in the above matter, can not properly prepare to depose Dr. Horoxxxx about the report, if the plaintiff does not have any knowledge of what is contained in the written report, or how such conclusions were reached.

8 – That the plaintiff can not prepare for a trial, if the plaintiff has no knowledge of what the report states, or on what material the report was based on, and how it was derived.

9 – That the plaintiff cannot properly question or challenge the report of Dr. Horoxxxx during the trial, without knowing in advance, what the report and opinions are based on.

10 – That the plaintiff can not present witnesses at trial, that can challenge or counter the opinions and/or recommendations of Dr. Horoxxxx, without having full knowledge of what those opinions and/or recommendations are, and what materials were used to create those conclusions and/or recommendations.

For the reasons stated above, the plaintiff requests of this honorable court, that the court order Dr. Sidney Horoxxxx to produce to the plaintiff, all the following documents.

1 - A full, unedited, copy of the final report, as sent to the GaL, Ms. Pat XXXX.

2 – Complete copies of all documents, e-mails, and all other materials that were used by Dr. Horoxxxx, to produce the final report, and to form the opinions and recommendations contained therein.

3 – A copy of Dr. Horoxxxx’s PhD Thesis, which by his own statement, is a study of the relevance and importance of the father’s role in the raising of a male child.

Respectfully submitted by the Plaintiff in the above matter.

Bla, bla, bla...

---

OK. I filled that with the court on Monday morning, and sent copies to the GaL and the Rug Rat's attorney, and to the ex's attorney (as required by law), but I also pinged one to the "Dr. (PhD), Horoshitz, as a jab in the gut.

I got a call this morning from the GaL (Pat xxxx), who is the only clean, honest person in the whole deal.

She leaves a message, "Paul, you must call me as soon as you get this message".

So I called her back (I was in the john), and she says that I shouldn't go forwards with my motion... that she talked to Horoshitz and he is willing to change his mind and recommend a one year trial with daddy if the ex will agree to it.

I told her that I would go along with a meeting, but I bet her a cheeseburger that the ex would not agree - she says that if the FRO is on my side (she is), and Horoshitz is on my side, and she (the GaL) is on my side, they well tell her that the three of the are ALL against her, and that she will loose in court. So she should agree to the deal and save $40,000 to $60,000 (more if my "fees" motion goes through.

So it looks like my motion was really a bombshell. I don't think Horoshitz wants to have to turn over his papers, and I don't think he wants to be held accountable for a stupid report.

I gots my fingers crossed, and it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

My plan "B" is still moving forwards at full speed.

Where the hell is Jon-K???? We need someone to beat up on ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, October 4, 2007, at 23:11:40 (ZULU)

Good luck, I can't begin to imagine what you and your boy have had to go through.

I particularly liked the PhD thesis bit......

Mark D
London, - Thursday, October 4, 2007, at 23:52:17 (ZULU)

Lindy,

That estrangement IS a good thing. Kinda makes me feel foolish for all the "old fashioned" folks I ignored, growing up. Maybe Elvis really was contributing to society's downfall. But how far back do we go? To the puritans? I gotta admit, it'd be sad seeing guys getting all hot and bothered over some chick's hairy ankle!

Any of you have an idea for a cast bullet you wish you could find, but can't?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, October 5, 2007, at 03:29:17 (ZULU)

>>Of course, I may be overly sensitized to this right now as I just finished my second reading of "Unintended Consequences".<<

Sir Wes: No. You are not. We are about to vote ourselves a free ride off the treasury, and no one cares enough to ask where the money really comes from. Hell, half the taxpayers aren't---as in no taxes; a portion of those also get a surplus check already (more back than they paid in)--and it hasn't occured to these same dumbasses that the people they want to foot the bill are the same guys who sign their paychecks. Heheh...the shit will hit the fan; but it is in slow motion.

Rifles: I have the LR260 DPMS, and I like it. I think a 22" barrel would be better, or some heavy fluting--for a better balance. I dropped in a JP trigger (which no AR should be without) and I changed the butt stock--otherwise, it is factory. Bravo pointed out that the original manufacture of these big ARs did not have a forward assist or dust cover. I'd avoid that. Oh, it shoots better than I can. The twist is fast, too, for a 260 at 1:7.5". Maybe if someone builds spear-boolits in 6.5mm (145gr+), I can shoot 'em!

I am getting into this archery stuff. I just scrapped that old sight and rest (the rest was serious overdraw) and ratched up the pounds. Also discovered that the upper limb was dialed up about 5 pounds more than the lower (whoops). I got a little level (came with the light feature i wanted on the new sight)--and I realized quick that i was cheating the peep over to my eye slightly. That little bubble improved my form some. Now I am amazing myself at 40 yards by nailing the 4" spot at will (most arrows are crowding the center, with 4 out of 5 within 2.5" of each other). I've been having such a darn good time at my new archery range, I almost forgot I have 3 deer tags...Oh, and the first time at 40yds--I let it fly and as usual it buried in the target. I couldn't see it. I wondered "where the hell did that one go?" |I had dialed in at 10, and 20 and 30 were dead-on. Apparently, so was the 40 pin! It shocked me to see a center ass hit! I went right back and repeatedly amazed myself. Just goes to show you that great equipment can make a fool look talented:))

I'm off to spread garage-floor epoxy on my workbench(s). Give it a few months to see how it works out.

Lito: Hey now! A shot across the bow woke up the lyin' and cheatin' bastards, eh? I bet they are surprised to the point of paralysis that you are calling them to the carpet.

Makes me wonder just how bad it really is out there for the vast majority who just roll over with the injustices. Since getting screwed by the system is NOT news---it must be fuckin' routine.

You keep going, and you'll be sitting with TR as "one of my all-time heros."

Joe M
Friday, October 5, 2007, at 03:35:09 (ZULU)

Hi-po Fords from the 60's used to have sodium filled valves, it was decided that it was better to use solid titanium intakes and Inconel exhausts for the real high performance applications. Low RPM diesel applications are undoubtedly different. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Friday, October 5, 2007, at 04:18:23 (ZULU)

Joe M... (fka "Secret Squirrel" ;)

You know, I had an interesting talk with the GaL (Pat xxxx), who is the only straight one in the bunch. I told her that I had evidence on the first bunch that the trial was fixed, and I began to list it... from the perjury and evidence fabrication of the first FRO investigator, all the way up to transcripts that prove conspiracy on the part of a sitting "presiding judge".... and that I had spent about 2,000 hours gathering it, and I had so much evidence now, that my biggest problem was to organize it.

She was shocked that I would go through that effort, and asked me why I was doing it (which shocked me). There seems to a prevailing attitude these days that if someone screws you, you just go home and hope it doesn't happen again.

She asked what I was going to gain from all the work and pressing charges. I told her that these bastards stole 4 years of my life, stole two years of time with my son, stole two years of his education, and stole his childhood... for that, they were going to pay, and there wasn't a hole deep enough for them to hide - I would never stop hunting them down, until they were in jail.

Apparently, she never met people with these values - in her social circle, "pay back", and "revenge" for someone that hurt your child just isn't in the vocabulary.

And I told her that if this "meeting" didn't work, I would have the report disqualified on the grounds of bias and non-professional conduct.

She said I couldn't.

I said I have won 85% to 90% of my motions so far, and everyone said I couldn't do that. If the court doesn't disqualify the report, at least the asshole will have to sweat on the stand.

I think they have finely gotten the idea that I will not roll over.

Payback is sweet - it makes up for the pain of a few years ago - Ruggus Rattus is doing fine, and my ex is sweating by the gallon.

Life is good!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, October 5, 2007, at 04:46:36 (ZULU)

Travis

What you looking for in a cast bullet?

Try Montana Bullet Works, i've had real good luck with them.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Friday, October 5, 2007, at 10:29:35 (ZULU)

I just realized why my .300 cracked me between the eyes; I weigh almost 40 lbs less than when I shot it before. No problem: I'll just use better form.

CDC'
Friday, October 5, 2007, at 14:58:44 (ZULU)

Gary: I think Travis wants to make them for us:))

Travis: Cast bullets? I'd want some that undercut the competition in price for my CAS rigs, all 45. I shoot the heavier end of bullets, but could be talked down to 200grs with a good recipe for consistant loads. If you are starting up a mail order bid'ness---do consider paying out a licensing fee and form a LLC. Separate your house and car (and other income sources) from your business. That way, if some loony dipshit alleges injury--he can only get your foundry and moulds. It is pure WY6!

I was rushing the kids thru breakfast and off to the bus so I could go launch arrows before the storms hit. Too late! I'll catch a break in the storms later on.

Joe M
Friday, October 5, 2007, at 15:03:39 (ZULU)

Joe M- someone beat you to that conclusion... and he died before the US Civil war began.

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."

Alexis de Tocqueville

Some of his other gems

"It is the dissimilarities and inequalities among men which give rise to the notion of honor; as such differences become less, it grows feeble; and when they disappear, it will vanish too."

"In the United States, the majority undertakes to supply a multitude of ready-made opinions for the use of individuals, who are thus relieved from the necessity of forming opinions of their own."

"The best laws cannot make a constitution work in spite of morals; morals can turn the worst laws to advantage. That is a commonplace truth, but one to which my studies are always bringing me back. It is the central point in my conception. I see it at the end of all my reflections."

"The greatness of America lies not in being more enlightened than any other nation, but rather in her ability to repair her faults. "

"Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude."

medicjim
Friday, October 5, 2007, at 18:17:19 (ZULU)

Joe & Travis

Give Dave a call at montanabulletworks.com He's a very accomodating guy. You could also post a question at jouster.com on the cast bullet forum FWIW

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Friday, October 5, 2007, at 19:06:26 (ZULU)

Marius, your e-mail is bouncing...mailbox over the limit!

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Friday, October 5, 2007, at 19:06:53 (ZULU)

Medic Jim

Here's a good one for ya http://www.linkamerica.com/freedom/lessonlearned.html

To all of ya'll that were at sniper quest at badlands,

Good job and good shooting !

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Friday, October 5, 2007, at 22:40:18 (ZULU)

...at least the trains ran on time.

http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp

One of the few upsides to "universal" Federal licensing of firearm owners in Canada.

Ordered a shotgun from an out-of-province retailer on Wednesday afternoon, lawfully took delivery via Canada Post on Friday afternoon. No local dealer involved.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, October 5, 2007, at 22:45:54 (ZULU)

CDC: You "just noticed" that you are missing the rucksack off your back??? Heheh. Dumping a few pounds does wonders for the knees, among other positive things. Its almost worth being scoped...(grin). I think we have all been there at least once. Like the time I failed to notice the muzzle brake was off of a 340wby (I got compacent with the 'brake). Blood, but no stitches. Once in a while I still get reminded to hold harder with my Sako in 300. Ya just get used to those 308s after a while, I guess.

MedicJim: That is one outstanding essayist; frogs of his caliber are as rare as frog-hair these days. The manhood of that nation died on the Marne about a century ago...though the current prez might be a bit of a throwback. One can hope...

I've decided that I have a magic bow (cuz it can't be skill yet--I was off the bow for more years than i care to admit). No matter how bad I screw up my form on release, the damned arrow finds its way to the bull. I did 5 sets of five arrows @ 40 yards. The only miss (outside the 4" center ring) came from a deflection--I shot the nock off the arrow that occupied dead center of the bull! OK, this could get boring. Maybe next year I'll try a recurve and finger release. Oh, and never underestimate the power of tuning a bow.

Rod: Great progress on needing a new bean bag! I use a sturdy sock with rice...infinately adjustable and cheaper than dirt (well, lighter than dirt).

In about a week or so, the Rut shall begin. Dumb bucks beats a smart ass everytime!

Joe M
Friday, October 5, 2007, at 23:36:03 (ZULU)

Gary,

I already have local sources for bullets. No sense in paying to have them shipped here. I'm considering starting my own cast bullet gig. Even if I don't take over the bullet world, I can still pay my way to gun shows.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, October 6, 2007, at 11:40:28 (ZULU)

Jury duty scam;

There is a scam going on now where a crook calls your home and tells you you're in violation of a jury duty summons. You tell them you never received a summons and they then ask for your full name, SSN, address, etc. to verify things.

From the FBI website:

http://www.fbi.gov/page2/june06/jury_scams060206.htm

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Saturday, October 6, 2007, at 11:48:39 (ZULU)

Paintball wizard.....................

I've never been interested in paintball until the folks at work finally talked me into playing yesterday at Vital Paintball up in Tobaccoville, NC. Folks I tell you I had a blast. Sore as a boil this morning. I learned a lot about what to do and what not to haul around for short 30 minute games. Taking the fort from the berms was not my cup of tea but when we had games in the woods I felt like I was in my element. It was hotter than forty megahells yesterday and at 53 years old I'm to danged out of shape to run with the young whipper snappers. But those young whipper snappers make mistakes that those of us that that have pretty much lived in the woods all our lives pick up on real quick. I couldn't run very fast due to a flare up of plantar facitis in my left heal but all in all it was really fun.

Things I learned.......

Cheapo plastic parts break. I broke the collapsable stock off my damn gun. Tapco makes a cheap POS. With the mask you can't get down on the sights anyway so the stock goes away. You don't need to carry 500 balls for a 30 minute game. A waist band that holds four pods and a cylinder can't be worn under a ghillie suit without looking like the Hunchback of ND. Electronic gizmos go south in a hurry. Some of the guys had electronic this and that and they were having more trouble than us folks that learned that batteries and microchips ain't worth a damn under heavy use.

If you haven't tried paintball don't poopoo yet. It is fun as hell hitting somebody in the ass with a half dozen balls at close range :)

Shooting real guns..................

Well it is finally cooling down enough for me to get back interested in gunpowder propelled projectiles. I got plumb tired of changing loads to beat the primer popping episodes I had this summer. I've got seven riffles in the safe that haven't been shot......they will be soon. I've also got donor actions to build a 300WSM and a 7WSM. Now all I need to do is rob a back to fund the builds. Also joined the new indoor pistolero range just down the road. Got a family membership so that Doughlady can get her CCW. I've also found a place that has 3-gun matches so that may be a new sideline. Long range at Butner is fun but I haven't been doing good lately and several people told me that it may be time to slack up on the long range for a while and play other games.

Y2K nostalgia.........

I miss the Y2K chaos :(

http://www.websmith.demon.co.uk/y2k/

Time to apply more BenGay to my out-of-shape muscles that are screaming at me right now, Bolt out!

Boltar.....master of paintball death
Still hot and dry in......, NC, - Saturday, October 6, 2007, at 12:39:33 (ZULU)

'Lito- sometime after all the fun & games are over, ask the GaL how, as an officer of the court, she can overlook corruption of the court/legal system:)))))

Expect the shrink is sweating over having to give up working notes...probably do not support report........if they exist. If I read you right, contradicting the body of his own work is also an interesting developement that'd cripple him in the professional credibility area for future work. Ya done good.

WR Moore
Saturday, October 6, 2007, at 13:46:52 (ZULU)

Joe M: I'll bet when the .340 tags you it leaves no doubt.

The world is different at 158 than at 196.5 lbs. For one thing I'm easier to push around. The .300 demonstrated that. On the other hand those 10,000 ft peaks don't look so high.

CDC'
Saturday, October 6, 2007, at 14:40:07 (ZULU)

WR Moore...

Thanks dudeski.

This has been an interesting adventure (but I wish it was a dugout trip down the Amazon ;).

I have learned a few things - if a judge sees something bad, they can't say anything about it - if you don't bring it up, it goes through.

If a Judge thinks someone is lying, and no one brings it up, it goes past - the judge cannot fight your battles against evil.

But if a judge thinks one side is shitty, and you bring it up, the judge can drop mount Everest on them.

I have also learned that no one thinks much of "Pro-Se" people... you have to prove yourself in court before you get any respect - after which, you get full respect, and a little extra leeway, but only if you earn it. If you act like an ass, or come to court unprepared, you get no slack at all.

It's not a nice place for good men to be - it'll take a case of brown soap to get the stink of this off when it is over.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 6, 2007, at 18:47:04 (ZULU)

Travis, the cheapo mass market bullets are pretty well covered. I'd encourage either the binary alloy(tin:lead) blackpowder bullets, primarily for rifles or trinary alloy properly hardened hunting bullets like true Keiths, ogival flatpoints, maybe those SSK style flatpoint truncated cones, etc etc etc. To be just another guy cranking out machine drop bevel base SWC's is to have no real basis of competition other than cheapness. And that is a shitty business to be in. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Saturday, October 6, 2007, at 19:24:46 (ZULU)

"If a Judge thinks someone is lying, and no one brings it up, it goes past - the judge cannot fight your battles against evil.

But if a judge thinks one side is shitty, and you bring it up, the judge can drop mount Everest on them."

Yep, if you can quote the applicable code sections properly, they'll help ("Hep" locally) you. The past couple of years I've been whispering in the wife's ear when she went Pro Se. Judge won't-properly, I'm not a lawyer-allow me to open my yap. I've gotta prompt her.

But ya gotta play their game by their rules. The most recent time, we broke down and got a hired gun. Very good, but Gawd Almighty, the opposition better (re)pay his costs. I'm now convinced most tort actions are filed because it's cheaper to pay up than defend yourself.

I'm also about to dance on the crainium of the local Commonwealth Attorney about some criminal issues. Problem is, I've considered one of the fur balls from his perspective, and I can understand the reluctance. Also, if I do the dance during the election and he loses, fine & dandy. If he survives, we're toast.

WR Moore
Saturday, October 6, 2007, at 19:52:02 (ZULU)

Well Brothers, wish me luck. They moved up my back surgery from the 23rd to this Monday at 0800. Got to have my butt there (Methodist Hospital in SA) at 0500 for admin and prep. I will probably get to come home Friday or so. He He I am used to being in total control and now I won't hardly be able to wipe my own arse for a few days.

MZ Dee is going to be staying with me most of the time. She will go home every day to feed and water Gunny and then head back. When I get home I will give you all a SITREP and AAR.

Semper Fi,

Finger

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Sunday, October 7, 2007, at 14:19:37 (ZULU)

Best of luck Jim. I hope your recovery is quick and the outcome better than expected.

medicjim
Sunday, October 7, 2007, at 15:03:16 (ZULU)

Good morning gents.

'Lito, you are one stubborn SOB. It's amazing the crap you have been through and you're really going to turn the tables on those libtard f***s, get all that stuff squared away, and do it all pro se. That is, in two words.......quite American.

Jim, best of luck with your back surgery. Chronic back problems really suck.

Going on 10 months with the new bride, and she is a firecracker.....screw that, more like a 2L bottle of tannerite. Definitely got Irish in the blood. Smarter than me. Damn pushy.....kind of like me. We are BOTH learning a lot! Her....that I don't back down much and ain't gonna change a whole lot. Me....that she is going to have to learn that the hard way.....prior clear statements of boundaries by yours truly be damned!

Caliber question: I'm on a serious budget, and working on assembling a business. I want to pick up a couple of hunting sticks for the wife and I. I am a Savage fan of course. I'm going to pick up a couple of Stevens basic bolt guns in a short action and tweak them......they are built by Savage, accuracy reports are excellent, and street price is under $300. Main use will be deer hunting. Joe M has raved about the wind bucking and trajectory of the .260 round. The Stevens is not chambered for it, but they do sell them in .270 and 7mm-08. Joe says 7mm would rock. I want rifles that I can zero for 250 yards and basically just hold over or under a bit to make good hits from 50 to 500 yards. Can some of you expound on the qualities of the .270 vs. 7mm-08?

Bravo....I lost your digits....ring me later this week in the evening.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Sunday, October 7, 2007, at 16:48:27 (ZULU)

Geoff...

I have owned a 7-08, and sold it shortly after I bought it. The 7-08 was developed back in the late 70's primarily as a cartridge for metallic silly-wet, to give a bit of advantage in weight/BC.

It didn't and doesn't have much to make it stand out.

I currently have two 270's. It is arguably one of the best rifle cartridges for game on the northern continent... and is in the top group of hunting cartridges (along with the 30-06, 308, and 243).

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, October 7, 2007, at 17:09:34 (ZULU)

Best of luck on the back surgery, Jim! Getting old sucks - but it's better than the alternative.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Sunday, October 7, 2007, at 18:01:10 (ZULU)

Gents: Just did a dumb thing--I spray painted in a relatively confined space (little air circulation). I wore only a face mask charcoal imbedded filter. I could smell the paint, if slightly, after about ten minutes. After coating two cans' worth, I stood up and got a little light-headed. I broke for fresh air. Now i am a bit light headed still (been 30 minutes), and I feel flush. Weird symptom is a loss of motor function in my right arm--again, this is slight. I wouldn't have noticed at all until I went to pinch some copenhagen and couldn't. This could also be caused by gripping a paint roller for hours on end.

My question is: Does spray paint have any neurological impacts with exposure? I know about the displaced oxygen and the cyanotic effects...but the fine motor degradation is new to me. I'm curious because I can explain this away with other causes. I'd tell ya what kind of paint it was, but I ain't going back in there for a while yet:))

Lito: I figured the .308 necked down to 6.5mm made a great cartridge, then necking it down a tad less ought to be good too. I am surprised the 7mm-08 fails in your experience. Do you think that it could have a second life with current bullets and faster twists than what they had in its inception?

I too like the 270, but I think that it is "more is better" for local hunting. That is not a bad thing, though you could step down and get a lighter stick without the extra recoil/ blast and still have what Geoff is looking for...again, locally.

I guess the decision Geoff needs to make is: Is this rifle for local hunting, or a one-size fits any and all CONUS situations in compromise? Me, I like to tailor rifles to situations (buy more rifles:))--but the first few I owned were bought for "broad uses." If it is a general purpose, then 30-06 or 270 is a great choice. Everyone carries ammo, and either will do everything south of Canada and north of mexico.

Has anyone stuffed a 6mm bullet into a 5.56mm cartridge yet?

Enough for now....jeez I feel shitty. Chemical exposures sux. I guess I don't "get it" that some idiots do stuff like this for kicks. You have to be a moron to stick yer face in a bag of this stuff intentionally. Darwin anyone???

(heheh--until today, I thought I could avoid darwin myself:))

Joe M
Sunday, October 7, 2007, at 21:05:12 (ZULU)

Joe M,

Yes,paint fumes can affect coodination...http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs07/708/index.htm

Look under ...What are the effects.Usually shows in long term use

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Sunday, October 7, 2007, at 22:50:13 (ZULU)

Joe M,

Treatment would be to get lots of fresh air. Don't go back in that space for at least 24 hr. Drink lots of water.

medicjim
Sunday, October 7, 2007, at 22:59:42 (ZULU)

Finger,

Good luck with the surgerty and heal up quick

Pat II
Monday, October 8, 2007, at 05:00:05 (ZULU)

The 270 vs 7-08 is sorta unfair, since you're comparing a LA to a SA. Unlike Lito, I like the 7-08 for the vastly superior bullets available. I run 162 A-Max's, 168 JLK's and occasionally 168 Bergers and they do good things. That said, I stepped up to a 280AI for my LR target needs, since I like the extra 300fps extra V I can get out of it. My compact M40 PIP is a 7-08 with a 20" tube, and I plan on shooting this barrel out, then setting back and getting it fitted for a can.

That said, I have two 270's also, great hunting cartridge, you just lack on the heavy bullets, 150 is about it. Fortunately, 150 Partitions or other premium bullets will do for about anything in North America, if you will. Unfortunately, for target use, nobody makes a decent bullet, the 135 SMK is a brick. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Monday, October 8, 2007, at 05:55:14 (ZULU)

MedicJim: Fresh air worked. Once I checked the can's label--it said much the same thing for the exposure symptoms I had. Toluene, Xylene and acetone were the ingediants that I wallowed around in.

Ken M: I was hoping you'd step in! I didn't bring you up as an example (not my place)--but I was impressed by your 7mm's; tis why I recommended this choice to Geoff.

Wife: "Why in the hell do you need so many pistols in .45?"

Me: "Cuz 9mm sucks..."

Her: "Oh..."

Something is up. That was going to be an argument--I could tell by the tone. But it ended just that quick. Hmmm. I wonder what she bought that she hasn't mentioned yet:))

Joe M
Monday, October 8, 2007, at 16:50:20 (ZULU)

.270 Vs. 7-08. I don’t have a 7-08, but I do have a 7X57 which is close to the 7-08. I had a .270 for a lot of years, but after I got a chronograph I found my hand loaded Speer 160 grain bullets were 120 fps faster than the factory 150 grain .270.

I was lucky enough to hunt in South Africa using both the 7X57 and .30-06. My furthers kill was on a Black Wildebeest with the 7X57. The shot was a measured 381 yards and he dropped in his tracks. I wanted to try to get closer but my guide said it was too open and flat. Said if I wounded him the trackers would find him.

I now use three rifles for hunting. The .243, 7X57 and .30-06. The .243 has never failed me on Oklahoma whitetail deer, where most of the shots are 150 yards or less.

HDR
OK, - Monday, October 8, 2007, at 16:56:57 (ZULU)

Gents,

Jim, good luck on the pending back surgery. All the stupid stuff I've done my back has remained relatively unscathed outside of a pinched nerve on one occasion. Here's hoping you are back to 100% after the surgery!

Joe M., paint fumes? You gotta be kidding me. Real men use varnish remover! Don't ask how I know...on the other hand I was OK in 30 minutes or so. An accaintance did this with Wasp & Hornet spray in an attic crawlspace. Damn near killed him. Don't those warnings say "use in a well ventilated space/avoid breathing fumes"? Of course WE read the warnings...;-)

Rifle calibers: built a nice 7/08 on a Sako action/Shilen barrel years back. Took several nice blacktails with it. Sold it because I could never get over 2,600 FPS using 140 grainers. Pressure signs were scary if I pushed any harder. This from a cartridge that touted 2,800-2,900 FPS for that bullet weight. Have never gone back. If I'd have had a brain (fumes?) I'd have bought a .308 Winch and been happy. Which is what I did. Have had five and am still looking for the perfect rifle. My Winchester Featherweights have come closest. Interstingly, I've never owned a .270 in spite of growing up reading O'Connor and only one .30/06 in an M1 Garand. Respect both, but just don't hunt with them. Probably don't use a .270 because of meat damage I saw from a 130 grainer on blacktails as a youngster.

The '06? Well, just too plain generic, I guess.

As a lad I took about a half dozen Blacktails with a customized .303 British and 180 grain Remington Core-lokts. MUCH respect for the cartridge and it's capabilities. All animals, but one were one shot kills and the other follow up shot was probably not needed.

Played with the 6mm's for a bit. A .243 Winch in a Ruber #1B and a Rem 700 Varmint Special in 6mm Remington. Don't ask me why, but never could get comfortable with using 95-105 grain bullets for game. Prefer bullets over 130 grains and 6.5 mm or larger.

My current rifles are a .284 winchester custom built on a small ring Mexican Mauser. Full stocked, 20" Krieger barrel, engraved. Too pretty to hunt with, but I do anyway. The .284 is a darn fine cartridge.

The "big" gun is a .35 Whelan Ackley Improved built on a commercial FN M98 action. All the bells and whistles. Can push a 250 grain bullet at 2,600 FPS(take that 7/08!). Was given five boxes of old Hornady 275 grain RN's by a gent I know. Now there is a bullet. I'm sure that elk will not like them, at all. Recoil is fairly stout at 2,400-2,450 FPS.

Currently working on a high grade Ruger #1, but haven't decided on caliber. Probably .308, but there's a 6.5 X .284 reamer in the shop that's calling to me...that may be another reason not to own a .270.

Spent Saturday in the woods. We've had rain early so it's fairly quiet, but all the leaves are still on so you can't see much. The deer are staying in tight cover which means going in after them or still hunting a good spot. Not a lot of sign, either. Looks like the big cats are taking their toll. Not to mention they're logging my favorite area. Did see two nice does, but no horns. Will try again this afternoon and evening. Am going to try lower down the mountain toward the bottom land. Plenty of thick cover with young Douglas Fir growth. Some areas are just not worth trying to hunt, but that's where the buck's are. Small fir, vine maple thickets, and chest high Oregon Grape. No doubt I'll be able to sneak up on the critters in that...right! Can't very well shoot one sitting behind the computer, so I'm outta here.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Monday, October 8, 2007, at 17:14:07 (ZULU)

Joe M

she's probably bought you a nice little 9mm Glock ;)

MarkD
London, - Monday, October 8, 2007, at 20:23:02 (ZULU)

Does anyone have a current e-mail address for Rick Boucher?

Send it to me please.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 8, 2007, at 20:54:26 (ZULU)

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/10/22/Business/Lighting_a_fuse.shtml

Quote:

"The big story at St. Marks Powder, Lockhart said on the phone and in a federal whistleblower lawsuit filed soon after, was that the plant routinely took shortcuts when testing gunpowder bound for the military, cheating the government and potentially endangering U.S. soldiers. Lockhart could swear to the fraud because he’d been doing it for years, having been initiated into the fine art of short-circuiting military specs by his predecessors at the 36-year-old plant."

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, October 8, 2007, at 23:03:05 (ZULU)

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/08/wisconsin.shooting/index.html

CRANDON, Wisconsin (CNN) -- An off-duty sheriff's deputy used a police-style AR-15 rifle to kill six people at an early morning party in a small Wisconsin town, officials said Monday.

Watch for the anti-gunners to use this incident as a justification for "Assault Weapon Ban II"...

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, October 8, 2007, at 23:50:35 (ZULU)

Rod-

Short version - Victims were ex-girlfriend and friends. 20 YO off duty deputy went to house party to try and reconcile with girl. It turned into an argument with other partgoers sticking up for the girl. Someone called the deputy a "worthless pig". Deputy retrieves rifle from vehicle, goes back into the party and empties magazine. At least one local report says rifle used was his dept. issue AR15.

Articles - http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=672136

Really, really bad scene. It sucks, bad.

I don't think they can spin this against civvies at all. However, it may put a dent in Gov. Doyle's contention that only LEO should have CCW. Maybe the State Patrol and other agencies will pass on testifying (while on duty) in Madison against the CCW bill the next time. But I doubt it. WI LE is generally pretty elitist. Up north there might be a little different.

I was in Crandon with the band this summer, playing after the running of the ESPN Crandon International Brush Run (off road racing). Cool people, typical northern WI types. Hard to imagine, it really is.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Tuesday, October 9, 2007, at 01:45:15 (ZULU)

Jim,

Good luck, and a speedy recovery! Remember -you're not John Wayne! Hell, John Wayne wasn't John Wayne! LEt your body heal at it's own pace.

Geoff,

How about .284 Win. or 7 Mag.?

On the wife thing, it's kinda like Dad told his girlfriend - He told her, "You can ask me, and I'll go a mile for you, but you can't order me to move a damned inch!"

Joe,

Expect to see a new horse, trailer, or saddle appear at your place soon.That's probably what's up. That, or a $1,000 show "outfit".

Mike Miller,

If it comes down to it, I'll chip in something to a legal fund. Itellectual property, while intangible, IS valuable, and SHOULD be protected. There should be much harsher penalties for this type of crime.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, October 9, 2007, at 02:06:37 (ZULU)

Hawgs --

Been visiting the board at least once per day, try to stay catch'ed up on the reading...

Been kinda busy in the background (besides normal work, chores, etc) sort of coordinating a sort of shop/garage addition. Guess what kind of shop this will be :))

Click on my name if you care to browse thru the pics. There are quite a few. There's all kinds of construction detail. Should be finished near the end of the year....

Pablito - you're gonna win man -- don't let up until there's nothing left of the enemy.

MikeM - I saw your post here and on that other site. Let's see how 5.11 handles this... They'll either go way up in respectability or - wayyy down...

'Finger - take yer time and heal well...

JoeM -- Ima 'fraid you're a horse husband... LOL -- ask me how I know :)

Take care all -

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Tuesday, October 9, 2007, at 02:59:38 (ZULU)

Ken...

>'Pablito - you're gonna win man -- don't let up until there's nothing left of the enemy."<

I'm on them like a cat on a pack of mieces. I played nice, and found that the psychologistéro was in the bag - and I got him dead bang.

I never met a bunch of crooked son's a bitches like this court bunch - they are so sloppy and make no effort to cover themselves up.

When I was a kidlet, I lived in little Italy, and had people like the Gambinos, and John Gotti, and the rest for neighbors - I bought candy in the Gambino's candy story (that had a "back room" where heavy set guys in suits went in and out all day)... and this court crowd is so stupid, I can't believe how they get away with it, unless they have everyone intimidated with BS.

The psychologistéro's report is high school level work, filled with big assed words - all smoke and mirrors.

We got 4 months or less to go.

You need to put the photos in a single line, and in an order, so we can just click and walk through, without going back and forth.

Do you wanna adopt me and Ruggus Rattus - we come with a great collection of guns, loading shit, and a way cool airboat ;)))))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, October 9, 2007, at 04:13:15 (ZULU)

Click. Cop remained professional WAaaaaaaaaaay longer than I would've. Bet he carries a backup gun, now.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, October 9, 2007, at 05:36:01 (ZULU)

Rod: Ironic that the Wisconsin shooting does more to support the second ammendment than not. It just takes a little logic. First, what is the second ammendment's true intent? Then ask yourself what happened here. If anything, this serves as a case study in armed citizens with unrestricted access to the same toys the guvmint has. No, the anti-gunners are not stupid enough to use this: "Hey, you armed citizens need to give up your nasty guns and let the deputy sheriffs protect you..." Heheh. That'll work. I think they are smart enough to leave this one alone.

20 years old? Did his mommy have to sign a letter? As I recall, a "citizen" has to be 21 to own a handgun. Could it be that the guvmint makes exceptions to its laws when they are inconvenient to them? (yeah i know it was an AR15, but I am betting that he carries something other than an AR in his duty holster)

While I am ranting about rights and laws:

The NRA-ILA took a pass on a recent legislation introduction that effectively strips the second ammenedment rights of any Vet who ever lost a minute's sleep over their war experience. As it is written now, I would be in a fight for my rights. The NRA position on this? "We do not oppose it because it has provisions for people to regain their rights." In other words---you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent thru some yet un-named bureaucratic three ring circus. I know the NRA is sorry on the ILA side of things---and I still supported them due to their outreach programs of matches and training, etc. Ya know, they say that a class III license is a right of citizens too, and golly, it isn't like the bureaucracies would ever curtail that thru self imposed rules and rulings. Naw, that won't ever happen (dripping sarcasm).

But I take this abdication personally---more of an unforgiveable insult. I am of the mind to sever all my ties with these idiots...after all, there are far better choices for aggressive rights' protections out there---and they could use that money that is otherwise doing nothing for me or anyone else like me.

Deep thought:

People tend to default to standard analysis of observed events--while ignoring that which occurs outside thier observation in time or distance. The usual ethno-centric stuff has roots here. "I've been around for (insert 20, 30, 40, 50 etc) years, and >it< has always been this way..." Whether the "it" is economics, social stability and law and order, foreign threats, or the constitution itself--these people filter everything thru their own limited experiences. These people also tend to be the majority of our fellow Amercians. They've been conditioned to think that the money that flows to them from government is merely printed for that purpose---they do not understand that a dollar came from another citizen's labors. They look around and see an orderly life in their community and cannot fathom irrational hatred and pure evil wanting to kill them. They see a "reasonable" reduction in their rights under the constitution and think that it is necessary under their current circumstances and harmless in and of itself this time around---as did their fathers and grandfather in their time. The process of social decay and loss of freedom is a parabolic curve; it is flat for a long time and unnoticeable, but accelerates in the end game. History shows this over and over. How many in Germany saw what was coming in 1933? 1934? 1937?

There is a phrase that shows up in contractual language, in UCMJ language, and in bureaucratic forms and filings: "The government's interests..." That always put a chill in my bones when I read it. Ask yourself why this interest should be any different than yours, or mine, or his, or her interests? The arrogance has crept in, and what remains is either scaling the beast back, servitude, or collapse of the system.

My money is on collapse--cuz we cannot accept the fact that we have enemies merely for who we are--not for what we do or say. We have enemies who want us dead or converted and under sharia---and they do not want to discuss it. Yet we have huge numbers who think we can walk away from a broken Iraq and shrug it off with no consequences; we have majorities who think a free lunch medical system is a great idea; who want to talk with the forces or radical Islam and reach accomodation; who worry how other countries "feel" about us as a nation...a recipe for failure if ever there was one.

Imagine the dollar falling by half from its current historic lows. The national debt that is held off shore---my god, commodities do not fall with currencies--this is what we call hyper-inflation. Nobody has dealt with that in their lifetime--so it can't exist in their minds. But just imagine city life in any large town if oil is effectively embargoed once again while T bonds get sold for pennies on the dollar...with a loaf of bread going for 75 bucks and the government out of its head with price controls and regulatory restrictions on who can get what. May as well imagine this shit---cuz the enemy has already targeted the economy with some success, and they know that our head is stretched out on the economic chopping block right now with deficit spending continuing, and additinal outlays being propposed weekly by every major candidate.

The wild card is terrorism. While we continue to stretch out the good times in this country bankrolled on debt; our enemies are staying their course. While we fret about world opinion and hauling ass out of Iraq (ever wonder what the world would think of us after we break it and then run?)--our enemies watch and wait. As we exchange our freedoms for free-rides, our enemy calculates his attacks on the dollar itself.

I think the terrs will bring us down low before we let the government own us wholesale. But it is sure looking like a tight race:)) I think a nuke will be the tie-breaker.

Joe M
Tuesday, October 9, 2007, at 06:14:40 (ZULU)

Geoff M-

Tks for the supplemental details on the WI incident.

Canadian law enforcement mgnt attitude as a general theme wants a monopoly on use of force, would prefer civilians unarmed. Canadian street officers for non-federal depts don't necessarily hold the same view.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, October 9, 2007, at 06:40:50 (ZULU)

Ken,

That's going to be one fine shop. I also like your license plate on the P/U.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, October 9, 2007, at 15:57:45 (ZULU)

Gents,

Spent most of the day in the coast mountains of Western Oregon. The terrain I hunted and grew up in...now 40 years later I still feel like a 16 year old kid when I get out in the wet clean forest. Left the woods a bit early today, as high winds were posing a serious safety issue. Don't want to be the lone hunter that gets hit by a falling branch or tree. Am starting to think that I may be the only hunter actually IN the woods. I see lots of people in camo riding around in trucks, but have not run into one actually on foot.

Deer are still holed up tight. Today's wind didn't help. Actually went into the thick stuff hoping to see something. Let me tell you, for most of the day 25 yards would have been a long shot. Still, any day in the woods is a good one.

Joe, I know what you're saying about the NRA. For years they've been saying we should support them because they are "the biggest gorilla in the room". Let's face it, a voting block of 3 million IS power. Especially, when the past several elections have been won by what...a few thousand votes? Unfortunately, NRA/ILA has taken the tack of compromising and trying to give the illusion of being all for it's members and gun rights. Then manage to pull a bonehead manuever like supporting a bill that would take away veteran's ability to own firearms if they've had mental health issues. I'll bet the majority of us that made the military a career or have served would qualify.

The comments about people basing their perceptions/decisions based on a narrow band of observed events is darned accurate. We see it all the time. Part of that may be that we are creatures shaped by what we see and our experiences. The majority become single issue voters, etc., because they no longer have a frame of reference to look at a bigger picture. I'd like to think that I am capable of those observations. Frankly, what I see scares the hell out of me. Everyone is worried about radical Islam. As they should be, but it's NOT the only threat. How about closing the borders, illegal aliens, and a government spun out of control. Add those things in and it truely becomes a terrifying picture. Personally, I've felt that it does us no good to go toe to toe with radical Islam when we are losing the war at home and on our borders. Hell, maybe I'm just being an alarmist, but what I see reminds me of a pack of suicidal lemmings. In this case they all know they are going to go over the cliff, but all of them are pushing and shoving to be first! Sorry, you hit a real nerve there.

The Crandon, WI shooting incident. I was under the impression that you had to be 21 to be a sworn police officer. These are the same folks that want to disarm us? Right...

That young officer showed ZERO judgement even going to the party. Of course we expect judgement from some fruitcake that thinks shooting six people is OK? How the heck did he ever get into law enforcement in the first place?

Well, tomorrow is chores day. Then reloading and getting ready for range day on Thursday. We are going to give my G.A. Precision AR-10 a workout. May take my bolt gun, too. Then some serious pistol work on the North Range. All in all I'm enjoying my weeks vacation. Taking wife to the coast for the weekend. Just us...no critters. Have a live in critter sitter for now...

Joe, let us know whether you're a horse husband or not. With a bit of luck she'll only have bought you a Glock!

My best to all.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Wednesday, October 10, 2007, at 09:05:16 (ZULU)

Local news had a few points on the Crandon shooting that I thought were very interesting.According to Channel 6 News in Milwaukee the State min requirements to become a Deputy Sheriff is ya need to be at least 18 yrs of age and complete 13 weeks of training.The other thing they mentioned was the kid never took a psych exam.First reports claimed the kid was taken out by a SWAT shooter...but it seems that the kid also had 2 or 3 non lethal gunshot wounds to the chin and were fired at very close range and the only lethal wound was fired from a distance,entering the right side of the head.There was only one kid to survive,he was the last one fired on and was hit 3x listed as fair condition.

If 13 weeks is all ya need,Where do I sign up? Just about every other city or county wants a college certificate with a mininum of 65 credits.

I think the family's lawyers are gonna be lookin really close at that county's policy,and I can see a few millions in the families future.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Wednesday, October 10, 2007, at 12:12:05 (ZULU)

"You need to put the photos in a single line, and in an order, so we can just click and walk through, without going back and forth.

Do you wanna adopt me and Ruggus Rattus - we come with a great collection of guns, loading shit, and a way cool airboat ;))))) ..."

CatShooter: LOL-- ya mean one of those picture gallery thingies.. You must think I'ma web publisha o' somethin' like dat... I'll work on making those more easier (like that english ey).

Airboat -- ya right - as dry as it is down here - you'll need to put wheels on it... Kim says it's okay to adopt You and Scooter - as long as you don't mind mucking the horse stalls, mowing grass, painting fences, pulling weeds, err - you get the idear....

Take care all,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Thursday, October 11, 2007, at 00:27:02 (ZULU)

Gee Whiz!! Sniper Scope is coming. Can't miss at 2000 yards. Scope does it all.

Click on link.

CDC'
Thursday, October 11, 2007, at 01:52:36 (ZULU)

Ken,

I would like to see a floor plan/over head view of the lay-out...

Are you gonna put a concrete/steel ceiling on the gun vault/safe room?

Looks huge! (and expensive!)

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Thursday, October 11, 2007, at 03:38:50 (ZULU)

Wilson Combat has some new AR mounts. Might be worth a look. $80 looks kinda high to me, but I'm cheap. Click.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, October 11, 2007, at 03:59:02 (ZULU)

CDC...

>"Gee Whiz!! Sniper Scope is coming. Can't miss at 2000 yards. Scope does it all. Click on link."<

I think that scope will be a great improvement!!!

It says it will improve hits by 10 fold - so you take a shooter group that has a 90%+ kill ratio per round (9+ dead BG's per 10 rounds), and improve it by ten fold, and you get 90+ dead enemies per 10 rounds, right?? What can be better than that. I mean, that seems like what they are saying... you da maff guy, you tell me!

And dis stuff about missing by 1.5 meters at a whopping 400 yds (dats 5 feets ;)... I mean what's with dat? Are dem snipin' guys shooting civies during' hurricane Katrina? That's some major kinda wind, dudes.

And all a dis stuff is figured out by a guy named Deepak Varshneya - now I don' wanna sound like I'm stereotyping somebody, but I don' exactly associate some guy named "Deepak Varshneya" with snipin' an' long range shootin' stuff.

And dis "Deepak Varshneya" is gonna build a scope dat will figgure out alla wind stuff for a mile and a half, so you get a one shot kill on 9+ guys with one shot???

Alla you snipie guys... don't worry, your job is safe.

Ol' Deepak Varshneya has swindled the US gubberment out of a million dollars in free grant money. He's gonna live in high clover for a long time... he can put alla his family on the grant's payroll too.

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, October 11, 2007, at 12:43:01 (ZULU)

Seen on the web this morning...

>"Watching those hunting shows is a little like reading Playboy.

Those big racks are out there but they're few and far between.

They're easier to spot than to get one of your own, and if you do get one, it usually costs quite a bit to mount it."<

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, October 11, 2007, at 16:08:05 (ZULU)

Re: Sniper Quest 2007

Be sure and check out the Photo Album I just posted on the Badlands Tactical Forum. Click this link:

http://www.badlandstactical.net/home.htm

Then go to the Forum. You may have to register.

The link you're looking for is Sniper Quest 2007 Photo Album. Its in the "General Board" section.

After that, check out the link....Stress Fire.

click my name for a sample photo

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, October 11, 2007, at 17:41:31 (ZULU)

Catman,

Thats about the average wind drift out here in South Dak. @ 400yds.(HA)

Pat
Thursday, October 11, 2007, at 20:11:56 (ZULU)

Travis: If that's what Wilson calls a "low" scope mount, I'd hate to see the high one. And I'm talking about the height above bore, not the price.

Jim - if you're reading this, how's the back doing? Hope it went well.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Thursday, October 11, 2007, at 20:23:29 (ZULU)

CatDude: Your tax $$ at work.

CDC'
Thursday, October 11, 2007, at 20:30:33 (ZULU)

Lito,

Did you get the article?

Pat II
Friday, October 12, 2007, at 00:20:36 (ZULU)

CDC'

>Gee Whiz!! Sniper Scope is coming. Can't miss at 2000 yards. Scope does it all.<

Ain't technology grand??

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Friday, October 12, 2007, at 04:46:19 (ZULU)

Pat-II...

It came today - thanks!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, October 12, 2007, at 07:27:49 (ZULU)

It just occurred to me that the picture that I posted in my previous post "http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/413/img0510tt3.jpg" was taken at the Bruce Robinson UKD Range @ Badlands (hint: you just might need a Mildot Master when you shoot there). Look to the right of the far right shooter and you'll see this. (click my name for a close-up)

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Friday, October 12, 2007, at 17:17:33 (ZULU)

Pat-II

I read the article and it has some interesting thoughts.

I like the idea of wrapping the undersized nylon brush with a soaked patch. It gives you the pressure against the bore for cleaning, and it allows you to run the patch through 5 or 10 times, instead of it just falling off at the end of the barrel.

I think the idea of greasing a barrel in not too good, unless you are going to store it for years. And putting Moly-grease in a barrel... well, lets not go there ;) ;)

I also thought that his comments about overly aggressive chemicals like Sweets, have merit. It would take a lot of work (and money) to test it out, but I tend to err on the safe side with $500-$700 barrels.

I have liked #9 for several reasons... first, I have been using it a long time, and I tend to be brand loyal, if they don't screw me, and there's nothing REAL better around - I use Castrol oil for the same reason - I used it when I raced moto-cycles, and still do.

Second, I love the smell, and so do people that don't even know what it is - I have had people ask what after shave I was wearing ;) ;)

And third, I can leave plug a barrel, fill it with #9, and leave it for weeks if I get distracted (which i often do) and it will not damage anything - that can't be said for most of the others.

I noted that he didn't mention bronze brushes, and I am (reluctantly) reaching that point too.

There is something so satisfying about running that big-assed bronze brush through the barrel - it makes you FEEL like you are cleaning the bore - a "visceral" kinda thing like brushes and brown soap.

But it is pretty clear to me now that nylon brushes are definitely the way to go - either naked, or wrapped with a wet patch., and bronze brushes are part of the problem.

He mentioned reverse electroplating - the "Otter's thingie". A friend offered me one - he had all the chemicals and all the center wires for it. I think he spent over $200 for all the stuff (extra chemicals too). He said it was such a pain in the ass that he never used it.

So, thanks for sending it to me - I will take some of it into account - especially the part about a patch on a smaller nylon brush.

What the hell do I do with about 47 million bronze brushes??

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, October 12, 2007, at 22:25:32 (ZULU)

Can the gunsmiths among us answer a question? The wrist of a Model 77 .338win split. The recoil seemed to be more than that skinny little waist of walnut was able to bear. Is there some way to drill a hole into the split then use that hole to inject something like Accrugalss or epoxy into the void thus fixing the thing better than new?

CDC'
Saturday, October 13, 2007, at 04:40:11 (ZULU)

Thanks for stopping by over there 'Lito. I should keep my mouth shut I guess 'cuz now I'm known to all as the guy who was full of shit LOL. I heard about it on our local club user group too. Oh well.

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Saturday, October 13, 2007, at 05:01:57 (ZULU)

CDC,

I've had good luck using Brownell's "Stock Repair Pin Kit". You put Acraglas, Acra-Quick, or Acra-20 in the crack and clamp it tightly. You then drill a hole across the crack with one of the bits in the kit. Next you coat one of the brass pins with the Acraglas and run it into the hole with a variable speed drill. After everything has cured you cut off the pin and dress the ends.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The cloudy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, October 13, 2007, at 05:18:45 (ZULU)

CDC...

Sorry to hear of your hunting trip problems.

Did you ever find out why the cartridge stuck in the chamber?

The original Acraglass stuff is the perfect solution for it - that's what it was originally designed for.

Just spread the split, get the Acraglass into the crack, as much as possible, clamp it, and wipe off the ooze.

The repair will be stronger than the surrounding wood.

Then there is also Numrich, that has tons of Winchester factory stocks - probably one for the 77.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 13, 2007, at 07:16:50 (ZULU)

Doc and Pablo: Thanks for the info.

Pablo: "Did you ever find out why the cartridge stuck in the chamber?"

Not yet. That's a good project for after the season.

CDC'
Saturday, October 13, 2007, at 11:40:11 (ZULU)

'lito,

Oi vey man...you know I'm wondering if them solvent fumes are getting to you..One, don't compare cleaning a 17 to any other cartridge tother than the 22rf..Phospor bronze brushes work better than nylon. Ok, I'll give you a little treat. When we pull the buttons thru 50 cals, barrels are cleansed of the grease and placed in heat treating oven to stress relieve. This process also oxidises the steel and anything else left in the bore. So they must be cleaned before they are lapped. It's crusty, gunky, cruddy stuff. So I came up with a concoction of kroil oil mixed with lapping compound(not JB's but I'll let you know), knowing the crust is harder than the steel underneath. I patch thru one wet kroil. Then, I take a 50 cal BRONZE brush, wrap one patch around it, and wet it with kroil/abrasive mixture. 20 scrubs. Patch out and voila, ready for lapping. Try that. If the patch makes the brush too tight, either wreck the brush, or use one size down, as you are using this for scrubbin phase one.

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Saturday, October 13, 2007, at 15:45:57 (ZULU)

JR...

Diga me' Hombre... ¿Que es "Oi vey mano"?

HA!

But anyway, I'm not cleaning out slag from a furnace (yeah yeah, I know... it gets "hot" in there... but most of the non-metallic residue is incompletely burned nitrocellulose).

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 13, 2007, at 17:03:08 (ZULU)

CatGuy: I lied. The bullets are seated to touch the lands. The brass is unfired factory Remington. When I sized, I did not touch the shoulder. Crud on the bolt face jammed the bullet into the lands.

Got sloppy.

CDC'
Saturday, October 13, 2007, at 17:22:35 (ZULU)

Cat-dude'ski:

Hell for all I know Oi vey is either italian or yiddish..from now on I'll use the ulster Irish intro terminoligy: Jazus mae...

You is cleaning a furnace. Get the shit out first, and you will find yourself back in cleaning territory. From what I've seen from your posts, you are definitely in need of chimney sweeping adages. Damn you, ha, are I going to have to find board near your locale to show you this stuff?

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Saturday, October 13, 2007, at 17:38:26 (ZULU)

On the other hand, I just got back from the range session with the .280. After the sight-in, I put a target at 400yd. In the sitting slung position 3.25" three shot group centered about an inch from desired point of impact.

I have a witness.

CDC'
Saturday, October 13, 2007, at 21:11:19 (ZULU)

Guys,

I've had great luck using patches cut from one of those greasy yellow cloths(either the silicone gun & reel cloth {Item no.GC-220} or lead away patches{Moel no. LP-199}, both from Kleen Bore) over a stiff black nylon brush.

The bristles are thicker than those on the white nylon brushes. Not certain of maker, probably Kleen bore or Pro-shot. Works great for shoving the lead out of the barrel on my Sig 220 factory barrel. That bastard hangs onto more lead than any other gun I own.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, October 13, 2007, at 23:04:38 (ZULU)

CDC...

>"I have a witness."<

Your dog doesn't count ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 13, 2007, at 23:05:16 (ZULU)

Travis:

Brownells sells black bristle nylon brushes in various diameters.

The funny yellow (impregnated) cloth is also sold in large sheets as Miracle Cloth. Sometimes see it in grocery stores or hardware/automotive supply (Canadian Time chain) around here for good prices.

Here is an online vendor:

http://miraclecloth.net/

Three (3) Miracle All Purpose Polishing Cloths

6 x 9 inch (15 mm x 23 mm)

(US$17.85 Value)

US$11.95 Plus $5.00 U.S. Shipping.

another:

http://budk.com/product.asp?pn=36%20RIM03&sid=FROOGLE&EID=X1814001&catalog_code=1X814&bhcd2=1192329311

$2.99 per sheet.

Great stuff for removing lead in bores and polishing revolver cylinder faces on stainless. It *will* remove blueing, so proceed accordingly. Nice for de-leading shotgun barrels too.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, October 14, 2007, at 03:44:52 (ZULU)

Lito,

Cleaning bores certainly seems to be an emotioanal issue with a lot of folks. I also liked that article for a number of reasons. I agree with you about wet patching with a worn brush and have used that technique since I have read that article.

I don't think I will ever stop using bronze brushes. After cleaning the way I do and looking though a borescope at my bores, I am happy with the results and my rifles shoot better than I do.

Lito: The pleasant scent of Hoppe's number is pleasing to me as well and large number of my aquaintances who are shooters as well. I have never messed with revered electoplating, but a good friend who I have a lot of respect for as a shooter swears that is the way to go if you really want to get all the fouling out. For me personally, too complicated for a backwords country**** such as myself and I am already happy with the results.

I also use Sweets and occasionally remington bore cleaner. I use sweet if I am positive I am going to have the time and not get interupted. The direction on the bottle say do not leave it in the barrel for longer than 15 minutes. This tells my pea little brain "do not leave this stuff in the barrel longer than 15 minutes".

Glad you enjoyed tha article.

Pat II
Sunday, October 14, 2007, at 04:52:19 (ZULU)

Pat-II

I know the reverse plating works on metal deposits. It's just such a humongous pain in the ass to use.

I guess where I'm going with this thing as I try stuff, and think about it, is this.

There are two groups of cleaners (and sub groups in those)... the petroleum bodied and the water bodied (the stuff that the cleaning agents are in).

The big problem with water based cleaners is that they rust your stick! (Martha says "... and that's a very bad thing").

And if you think your new stainless riffle won't rust, don't bet your money on it - a good friend shot a sniper match in WV, and got caught in the rain on the last day. He figured he would pack up and head home, and clean the rifle when he got home. When he opened the case 13 hours later, the stainless was covered in a light coat of rust.

He cleaned it with bronze wool and then took the bronze coating (the gun was now gold colored) with Hoppe's #9... but it left him in shock.

But this is the problem with water based cleaners - with petroleum based cleaners like Hoppe's, there is no water... so you can leave it in the barrel forever, plus, when you are finished, you don't need to run an oiled patch through the barrel, cuz it has a light coat of a light oil-like stuffie (kerosene?).

I had one rifle (stainless barrel) that was so dirty, for sooooo long, that a white growth was seen inside of it. I plugged the barrel, and filled it with #9, and let if sit for a week... and it came out perfectly clean, and undamaged.

Water based cleaners can be faster - for example, straight 28% ammonia will remove copper in about 60 seconds, (and remove the linings of your lungs in half that time, household ammonia is about 1%).

Petroleum based cleaners work slower, because the ionic exchange that causes the copper to convert to something that comes out with a patch... is slower in the presence of a petroleum base.

There is probably not ONE universal "best" cleaner, or cleaning method. Cleaning methods vary, and cleaning needs vary also.

When I'm at the range and testing groups, I want to get the barrel 80-90% clean in 5 minutes.

When I'm home, I want it 100% clean, and a couple of hours is OK, as long as most of the time is soaking, not scrubbing.

I loaded up a bunch of ammo this weekend, and I'm off to the range on Monday or Tuesday... making little groups and DIRTY riffles ;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, October 14, 2007, at 12:00:33 (ZULU)

Pablo: My dog would make it TWO witnesses. 53 year old Parkinson's sufferer with a 30 year old sporter shooting Nosler Partitions shoots a group like that?

That is probably the luckiest three shots I've ever fired. I'm framing the target and hanging it on my wall.

CDC'
Sunday, October 14, 2007, at 12:20:40 (ZULU)

Cleaning country.......

When I discovered Montana Extreme nylon brushes I threw out my bronze wire things. They are tough as nails. I'm not near as anal about cleaning as I was when I first came on site many moons ago. As a guy said on another site; cleaning after every string is like wiping your butt after you take a leak.....just isn't necessary. If you have to clean after every string there is a problem somewhere. The most important lesson I learned is that a quality barrel cleans lickety split and cleaning isn't such a chore anymore. My new Lilja barrels exhibit little or no copper even after several hundred rounds. I can pee down the barrel and clean what little black stuff is in there. Then I just run a patch of Montana Extreme bore conditioner in the tube and put it to bed in the safe.

Butner matches......

600 yard weekend next weekend and 1000 yard weekend the following weekend. Then for me I'm headed to the range with a couple of 40X 22's for a couple of months of practice.

Paintball....

Grandson blew up about 400 paintballs yesterday....for a 4 year old he was hitting most everything he shot at. Next year he gets a new Cricket 22 and we start having some real fun!

Bolt out!

Bolt
Sunday, October 14, 2007, at 13:36:22 (ZULU)

Bolt,

A buddy of mine runs a youth rifle program. (Hit me with an e-mail & I'l tell you where if you're interested in knowing: I don't want to attract anti-nuts by saying here) I help when I can get there. Those Crickets are GREAT for the young ones!

We hosted a BSA camp for a troop out of Knoxville, and it was outstanding! The leaders said it was all they'd hoped and more. The kids all got to shoot (rifle and shotgun), and word of our program is spreading through that BSA counsel. You guys will appreciate how few & far between oportunities for kids (esp. Boy Scouts) to shoot are. If a kid doesn't have parents who shoot, or if they're just too busy making a living, there's virtualy no other option.

Anyway, we're trying to raise the next generation of riflemen. The club has supported us in a big way: buying rifles and supplies for the program, and forcing availability of facilities in preference to so other activities. We've got Crickets, Romainian (med size) training sticks, a cpl ofd Savages, H&Rs from CMP, and a cpl of 1903 Anschutz rifles: good selection for a veriety of younguns.

Cleaning country:

Have to throw a shout-out for OUTER's Foaming Bore Cleaner. (I learned about this by reading JR's website) I wet patch with HOPPES #9 until the gunk is out (3-4 patches), then fill the bore with this foam, go have a frothy adult beverage (my favorite part), come back later & push foam out of the bore with a patch wet with #9. The first time I did this I kept looking at the bore worried: copper seemed gone, but it was soo black. Then I got a white patch near the bore & realized it was black because it was so reflective: stick a slip of white paper in the bore, and it reflected white all the way down. Copper, crap, everything gone except mirror smooth steel. ...my $.02, worth all you paid for it.

SSG Mac
Hickory, where no shooters reside (aparently), - Sunday, October 14, 2007, at 15:18:23 (ZULU)

Gentlemen,

Does anyone know where I can get abt 1K of LAKE CITY 7.62 brass. The standard machine gun brass is fine: I extensively work it, and sort for weight regardless.

I'm looking for older stuff (the last cpl of years LC has put out some real trash trying to meet the Army's needs... I mean the alloy has been to hell & gone for QA).

Mostly, since ebay quit allowing anything to do with guns, I just can't find it anywhere. Gunbroker doesn't seem to have it as yet. I've got a load worked up that works well for me, and I hate to start all over with a (more expensive) commercial brass.

Thanks in advance.

SSG Mac
NC is truly scitzoid where gun laws are concerned., Damn I miss TN., - Sunday, October 14, 2007, at 15:35:06 (ZULU)

I've a Husqvarna rifle that needs a rear sight. Need to know where to look for parts for this firearm. I believe it's a Model 1640 it's in 308. The dove tail piece is there , and it has two holes taped in it. The sight part is not with it.

Gary Kaney
NW, ILL, - Sunday, October 14, 2007, at 15:46:43 (ZULU)

SSG Mac,

You might try Bartlett's reloading supplies...website is www.gibrass.com

Bravo,

Tom has finished up the Long Range Hunter's Course, and his stick did fine! And he and the rest of the class had a very learning experience on wind!

Bobby Whittington
Grandfield, OK, USA - Sunday, October 14, 2007, at 16:36:45 (ZULU)

SSG Mac...

>"The first time I did this I kept looking at the bore worried: copper seemed gone, but it was soo black. Then I got a white patch near the bore & realized it was black because it was so reflective: stick a slip of white paper in the bore, and it reflected white all the way down. Copper, crap, everything gone except mirror smooth steel. "<

Same thing happened to me with the 30 cal twelve grove barrel I was talking about a few weeks ago...

When I was finished cleaning it, it was spookie - it looked BLACK like it was blued steel... but it was stainless. Turned out to be a mirror finish. If you were an ant, you could go inside and comb your hair in it - it is the most unusual barrel I have ever had.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, October 14, 2007, at 16:41:31 (ZULU)

Gary...

The Husqvarna rifles were made by FN. Husq hasn't sold rifles in years.

But the sight arangement you have is a standard set-up.

Get a Brownell's catalogue (free at 1-800-741-0015), and find a replacement that will fit.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, October 14, 2007, at 16:45:27 (ZULU)

Bobby,

Thanks, that's one of the sites I watch. When he gets some 308 in you have to move fast (like trying to buy 175 SMKs from Widener's). I keep missing it when he's got some; just have to be more attentive I guess. I'll be going to IWQ this month... have to arrange to be elswhere when everyone anounces "no brass, no ammo" Heh heh heh...

Lito,

That was the best surprise I ever got cleaning a rifle! I know a lot of people here don't like Tubb's final finish, but I used it on that stick as part of a standard break-in (fire once - clean, repeat... in my case, until the Tubbs kit was gone). For all I know everyone may be right about Tubbs FF, but I ended up with a rifle that'll shoot 1/2moa when I do my part. (and the mirror finish mentioned before).

SSG Mac
Home of the Free, because of the brave, - Sunday, October 14, 2007, at 18:38:17 (ZULU)

Lito

I'll give Brownells a call monday. All i want to do is be able to sell it.

I thought about putting a K series Weaver on it, but decided against that.

It will make a good deer rifle for a wife, son or grandson and that's the only reason i want it presentable.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Sunday, October 14, 2007, at 23:00:50 (ZULU)

SSG MAC go here: http://www.scharch.com/ I've gotten both 7.62 and 5.56 from them. In the 7.62 the greater majority, 85-90%, was LC with a bit of other arsenals thrown in. GREAT people, GREAT service and responses!

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, October 15, 2007, at 03:22:09 (ZULU)

Modern Liberian combat troops in action!

This one put me in tears...

... read the text, but don't have coffee or soda at the keyboard!!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 15, 2007, at 04:42:00 (ZULU)

misfire!

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Monday, October 15, 2007, at 05:46:16 (ZULU)

'Lito-the rest of us would enjoy much more betterer if you included the link.

I may have seen some of those before. "Sights.....we don't need no steeeeeeking sights!" The mojo man done tol them it's the noise that makes the other dudes fall dead.

WR Moore
Monday, October 15, 2007, at 05:46:43 (ZULU)

CDC: A hanging target is great for conversation. That M4 I built made a 100 yd zero target that i stuck on my wall in CFLCC HQ; when asked and I referred to it that is was a zero target--I often was told that I ought to shoot at least three rounds to be sure I was zeroed. I would tell them that I was pretty sure it was zeroed, since there were five bullets in those two ragged holes (more of a figure-8). Usually, I'd also hear how that was "pretty good" for 25 meters...heheheh. Yeah, that one was special. The M4, not the target:))

SSG Mac: Don't be such a stranger around here.

Patched brushes: I thought everybody did that...was taught that back in the mid 80s, and never questioned it.

After much labor and even more delays (or wife-directed distractions)---my new workshop is complete. OK, so it was done a while ago--but i kept going with little custom eye-candies. The epoxy paint (garage floor) may not be the answer for work surfaces--but there is the 7 day full cure thing to wait on. It does seem a bit soft though, and maybe not as adherent as I was hoping. If it doesn't set up better--I may dump some clear coat on it (same stuff, only clear). As for ammenities, I have broadband connections, a phone and satellite TV built into the room, more shelf space than you would believe, great lighting (recessed spots and 8 bars of flourescent) all around---and plenty of outlets on a 20 amp circuit. I got seriously carried away with this project---and justified it as practice for the major remodel job she wants for the main house areas. In all, my gun shop is freakin' nice!!! My safes are recessed into walls and have provisions for flush mounted doors to be built later that will look like "wall." For now, they have brass fitting that look out of place on recessed wall--it is all blended to match. And, the framing around them is 2x6 laminated and cross braced--if you want to dig them out to cut them open, bring a tow truck and about 100 yards of cable! Yeah, they are now a part of this house. If i ever move, i will buy a nicer and larger one anyway...

Tomorrow I will set up the press.

Joe M
Monday, October 15, 2007, at 07:24:57 (ZULU)

WAY cheaper than buying a full auto. CLICK.

Also, was wondering-is high speed internet available through satellite service? If so, from whom? Looks like we're gonna buy Dad's place, now that he's gone.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, October 15, 2007, at 08:08:13 (ZULU)

Check these out. No reason I'd possibly NEED one, but if I had an extra $20,000, I'd consider it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9NxHj1R04g

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi?read=95759

http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, October 15, 2007, at 08:36:04 (ZULU)

Click to see one BIG ASS shark.

(Yes, I'm bored. Insomnia SUCKS!)

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, October 15, 2007, at 09:10:29 (ZULU)

JoeM: Congrats on the setup!!! - so How about some pic's?

Since CatShooter was whining about all the clicking he was having to do to review my pics the other day, I've learned how to put them into a photo album as a power point slide show. Ya - I know it's simple - but I ain't no web publisha as I sed earlier. The site is updated.

Click on my name if you want to see some shop pics mo' betterly organized. You'll need to provide a username/password. Shoot me an email and I'll provide the access

JoeM: If you want, shoot some pics of your shop - I'll put them into a photo album and put them into a place where you can provide the access to them as you see fit....

Other stuff: Ever wonder how busy snipercountry is? We've turned on a stat's tool. Checkout: http://www.snipercountry.com/awstats.html

The current run covers one day. It gets updated daily, late in the evening. I can see how the hits will pile up really quick. All the MacIntosh visits are CatShooter's insomnia (running for cover) :))

take care all,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Monday, October 15, 2007, at 11:23:07 (ZULU)

Travis: Depends on what you mean by "high-speed".

We have DirecWay service here on the ranch. Optimally, we get about 700KB downlinks, and about a tenth of that going up, but it's heavily dependent on system loading. Usual downlink speed is more like 150K.

Pretty reliable, but degraded by heavy rain.

http://www.hughesnet.com

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, October 15, 2007, at 13:06:55 (ZULU)

WR Moore...

>" 'Lito-the rest of us would enjoy much more betterer if you included the link."<

Yeah, yeah, go ahead and pick... find the LITTLE THINGS wrong with my post. ;)

OK...

Modern Liberian combat troops in action!

This one put me in tears...

... read the text, but don't have coffee or soda at the keyboard!!!

http://www.fmft.net/archives/cat_military.html

There, are you happy NOW?? ;))

Sorry - I saw that in the middle of the night when most of the neurons were OTL.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 15, 2007, at 14:49:51 (ZULU)

JoeM.....incoming mail, no attachments, no germs. I asked that last question before I read your last post, consider it answered! Now, you know why I'm considering DC's offer, I'd like to build a kick-ass gun room/study, then add a head, kitchen and bunkroom so I can live next to it! Boudicca is still waffling, so I gave her 30 days to make up here mind, then I'm outta here. The perfect house.....a gunnroom with an attached garage.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, October 15, 2007, at 15:55:50 (ZULU)

'Lito,

That was damned funny!

JoeM, saw your email but haven't gotten as far as reading. Just got back from 7-days of 'guerilla' diving.... ~20 dives in 5-days. I'll get back to you 2-nite.

Duman
Decompression is for sissies....., - Monday, October 15, 2007, at 16:23:41 (ZULU)

Chuck, greetings from the old broke butt. Oh well, I'm resting and doing what I can for now. Sounds like your pondering a better set-up than mine. (gun room) Go for it! I won't be too jealous ;)

Yell if you need anything. Come visit when you can. I will provide the beer and cigar.

S/F

Finger

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Monday, October 15, 2007, at 18:09:10 (ZULU)

Gun room, hell! I want a gun house w/living quarters! When shopping for a gun safe, I keep thinking, if I get too big a safe, I'll see it as a challenge to fill it! I just don't wanna buy too small, and end up filling it up in a year.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, October 15, 2007, at 19:14:51 (ZULU)

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