Sniper Country Duty Roster

October 2003

Juan update:

My residential power restored after 36 hour interruption.

Others still waiting.

Eye passed over Halifax, 129KM/hr peak, 2.9 meter storm surge

claimed for harbour. I can believe the wind stats, I would guess

more like 1.2 meters on top of a high tide.

Watched the street in front of my apt. turned into a tidal estuary

for a few hours.

Provincial politicians are paying tribute to the paramedic who was killed Monday when hurricane Juan hit.

John Rossiter, 31, died when a tree crushed his ambulance outside the Camp Hill Veterans' Memorial Building in Halifax.

Members of the Nova Scotia legislature paused Tuesday for a minute of silence to mark his death.

The Department of National Defence has committed 600 troops from the navy, army and air force to assist in the clean up of fallen trees and limbs that have clogged streets throughout Halifax Regional Municipality.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 00:13:19 (ZULU)

Robert;

I will keep you in mind when my projects get started. I'm trying to get some planning done first and figure out which I want to do first.

LATER

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 00:55:33 (ZULU)

Pat

What velocity are you getting with the 24" barrel and 140's.

Thinking about a M40A1 clone in .260. Might be a winner if 2800 fps is doable. Less recoil and much better wind bucking past 600.

To all

Are there any sniper type matches in the missouri, Illinois, Indiana, or kentucky area?

Thanks

Bill

Bill Byford
IL, USA - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 02:00:28 (ZULU)

Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle, Riffle Raffle.

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, US of A!! - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 03:42:10 (ZULU)

Hey, what happened to the 10 Leupold Mark 4 M1 scopes that were for sale on the Emporium for $600 each? It seems as if the ad got pulled. Gee, could it have been to good to be true?

Michael
CA, USA - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 06:44:22 (ZULU)

Bruce, Nick A: Two boxes received from each of you; Nick, you have put needed items in the hands of the mighty 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment! A scavenger team swung through (they are waaay north); lucky timing for all concerned. Bruce, I also have a receipt to go pick up one more box at the mail room. The two that arrived, incidentally, will supply a brigade with muzzle caps. My gawd, my warehouse cannot do that on a good day!!!! This is incredible.

Silly assed story:

A female captain comes by needing some help with basic supplies. No problemo---I get it unscrewed and start sending her on her way back north to her forward deployed unit with the duece (she's a paratrooper). She says, "thank you so much Major May-Hon..." I say, "it's pronounced Mann" Then her eyes get wide, and she says, "Ohhhh, you're the "Santa Major" everyone is talking about!!!!! Uh, I mean, errr, Sir, sorry...." I fell off my seat laughing. I explained who the real santas are---a great bunch of shooters and patriots from right here. Still, this is really getting a far reach...we are making an impact far and wide in the theater. My team is prepared to carry on while I am away. Guys and Gal--I think we are starting to corner a market!!!!

I fly tonight;))

I'm turning off the auto forward on this email button today---I can receive email off my link while at home.

Anyone with good name ideas for my new kid, email me tomorrow with the suggestion! I'm thinking of Ronni or Ronald just so I can call my youngest two for dinner: "Ronnie; Raegan---come in for dinner..."

I doubt the wife will go for that one...heheh.

Joe M.

(in)Sain: chicks dig me too! I hand out care boxes...

Joe Mahon
Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 09:16:15 (ZULU)

What's up in Iraq:

"I'm no longer baby-sitting the pukes from CNN and the canned hams from the networks, but have a combat mission coordinating a bunch of A teams seeking, finding and rooting out the mostly non-Iraqis that are well-armed, well-paid (in U.S. dollars) and always waiting to wail for the press and then shoot some GI in the back in the midst of a crowd.

The only reason the GIs are upset (not demoralized) is that they cannot touch those taunting bags of gas that scream in their faces and riot on cue when they spot a camera man from ABC, BBC, CBS, CNN or NBC. Then they know the next nightly news will be about how chaotic things are and how much the Iraqi people hate us.

Some do hate us. But the vast majority don't, and more and more see that the GIs don't start anything, are by-and-large friendly and very compassionate, especially to kids and old people. I saw a bunch of 19-year-olds from the 82nd Airborne not return fire coming from a mosque until they got a group of elderly civilians out of harm's way. The Iraqis saw it, too.

A bunch of bad guys used a group of women and children as human shields. The GIs surrounded them and negotiated their surrender fifteen hours later and when they discovered a three year-old girl had been injured by the big tough guys throwing her down a flight of stairs, the GIs called in a MedVac helicopter to take her and her mother to the nearest field hospital. The Iraqis watched it all, and there hasn't been a problem in that neighborhood since. How many such stories, and there are hundreds of them, ever get reported in the fair and balanced press?"

That's from a Marine in Iraq. For the rest of his note, click on my name.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 13:44:43 (ZULU)

Fall has come to the mountains.......

time for the annual inventory change in the rack behind the gun room door..Will spend the next few days cleaning the varmint rifles and putting them away for their winter nap..The game rifles will come out of storage to replace the hog busters. .22 Kimber will stay, as will the 84 in .223.

The chuck hunting went well this summer...95 confirmed..The Hornets performed well within their range limitations and provided many evenings of fun stalking..The 40gr. Ballistic tips are great in the hornet.

Going to start shooting the new Dakota 10 250-3000 regularly to tune up for white tails. The Old Sako 250 will look pretty sad in the company of the Dakota on the rack...The Sako has been relegated to the role of rain rifle.

BRogers...May try my hand at calling coyotes again this fall...Have failed miserably in the past...Don't know what the difference is between western and Eastern 'yotes,but nobody around here has had much success calling them..Could be there's too much food or cover or whatever...Maybe we're all just not smart enough here in the Alleghenies.

As hunting season is upon us all I wish you all safe and pleasant outings.

Back to lurk mode

outa here

Markwell
The Alleghenies, WV, - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 13:58:38 (ZULU)

Bill,

With my 24" I am getting 2770 with the 140SMK and 38.5grs of Varget. This is the load it likes for whatever reason. I had problems with vertical stringing with anything else.

I push my 168s to 2800 in my 308 and this 260 load will shoot a tad flatter at 700 on out and has better wind drift. Its also more accurate at the longer ranges. If I was only going to shoot to 500yds I would stay with a 308 but anything past that the 6.5s outshine them. Plus your less affected by wind drift.

This load will nearly mirror the 175s in the 308s with a lot less recoil. I think it takes me around 32MOA to be on at 1000yds if memory serves me correctly.

Pat
Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 14:56:57 (ZULU)

Jon, i'm heading back to work in about 4 hours, there untill monday morning get me knee op'd next tuesday, get me knee sorted and " Bobs me uncle " ahh, Bob's your uncle means to be in the clear, everything sorted, job well done, all is going well, you know, the opposite of " up shit creek without a paddle, or not bieng a happy chappy, in a world of shit, etc. you'd like these new bino's Jon boy, and that old butchers bike was the first one i ever took care of cos i built it from bits my self.it was black and sleek and all them levers where better than these new fangled fly by wire gizmos, and yep the old boy had already bought a few bikes and seen me ride em to ruin,(either the bikes or me ended up busted cos we used to do alsorts of stunts on em) he decided it was time to teach me a lesson, came home with 3 butchers bikes, all scrap, i made a good one out of them. I had to go for check up this morning , pre full anastetic check up, seems heart/ blood pressure is all in order, had a laugh with the nurse/ practice helper, she was filling in some form to go with the blood samples, she said " it looks just like a national lottery form, doesn't it, what will i get if win?) i said, " sorry i'm married" (am i getting old or is the missus putting bromide in me tea? anyways, she proceded to stab me in both arms trying to get some blood samples, after i was begining to look like a pin cushion she went to get the head nurse, ha, by the time she came back i'd take the samples my self, you should have seen her face. Dilemma, tomorow night, beers or hunting, beers or hunting...see what wonders of stress the space race will bring me tomorow morning, i know weizen beer with banana juice is going to win, so why am i fighting it?

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 16:02:31 (ZULU)

I have been waiting for those 77 grain sierra HPBT bullets to be made available in lots of 100, but no progress to date...

Anyone interested in going in on a part lot with me, I just don't want to drop close to $100 to be able to try them out. I've got a 22" heavy contour AR upper in 1:8 twist that doesn't like fast moving 69 gr sierras (3000 fps)... I thought maybe I could load up the 77s to approximate the ranging reticle in my springfield / hakko scope.

medicjim
Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 16:30:35 (ZULU)

Markwell; I have heard that eastern coyotes are harder to call, than the western ones. It may be due to the terrain and food situation. Basically the dogs I hunt will come to anything that sounds like it's in distress or squealing. I tried mouth calling last weekend. Apparently my "mouth call" sounds like a fawn in distress because I almost had a confrontation with a white tail doe who came bounding in snorting and pawing the ground. But the dogs didn't respond to it. Actually we don't have good luck calling in wooded areas and prefer the sage flats and sand hills for sheer number success. The "set up" is often the most important part of coyote calling and may vary back there in heavy timber.

Brogers
Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 16:37:35 (ZULU)

RIFLE RAFFLE ???

I just bought a new Winney Stealth in .308.

Could always use another stick though.

Steve from Chilly New Joisey

Steven Dzupin
Wayne, New Joisey, US of A - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 17:10:47 (ZULU)

CMP has real M118LR for sale, 920rds for $400. Can't beat that with a stick. Want to see if your handload matches M118LR? Here's your chance. S/F...Ken M

Ken M
Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 17:54:35 (ZULU)

BERLIN (Reuters) - German police detained a drunken man after finding him sitting behind the wheel of his car asleep in the fast lane of a motorway, authorities said Wednesday.

"He had a bottle of wine between his legs and a rifle next to him. He pulled up there to sleep off the booze," police said.

The man, 28, was believed to be a hunter. He was wearing camouflage clothing and there was a dog in the passenger seat, a police spokesman in the northern city of Schwerin said.

Pete, are you OK?

Don

Don K.
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 18:03:48 (ZULU)

Medicjim... email inbound from work address RE: 77gr SMK's....

Steve

Steve ~ Hockeyref
When work interferes with life, something needs to change, - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 19:08:29 (ZULU)

Byron, Robert, CDC, Brogers or others,

RE: WTB Remington 700P or 700LTR in .308

I have a dealer that is working towards meeting the new board order on purchasing weapons. I just need to know if CompuServe qualifies as a "real" ISP? Seems to be in the grey area to me, but didn't want to disqualify him until I got clarification. Any additional help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Todd

Todd
Fredonia, ND, USA - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 19:09:20 (ZULU)

To All:

Chris deserves the "Silver-Tongued Devil" award for slicking the Caplug company into donating 5000 muzzle caps to the cause! I trust that Joe's eyes got as big as mine when he saw those two big-ass boxes! We have written a Thank You note, but I am trying to get the gal responsible on the phone today to thank her and let her know what an impact this is having.

Let's see.....guy in OR calls a company in NY and has them ship them to a guy in NM, who then ships them to a Major in Kuwait, who then spreads them all over Iraq and A'stan. How much more fun could this get?

The biggest kick is hearing that Santa Major has to pick up so many boxes besides the ones that Child Bride and I send out. I'm very proud of you folks, and honored to be a part of this.

Next box in the pipeline also has a 1000' spool of Khaki 550 cord, also courtesy of Chris, plus a ton of Walmart goodies courtesy of the rest of you.

And, Sir Wes, Thank You for your generous contribution. Balance in the fund is now $114.12, which we look forward to spending shortly.

Joe.......God Speed.

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 19:41:11 (ZULU)

Fix It Again Tony

I've Hunted 'yotes in western OK. at Ft.Supply (no wonder no-one wanted to stay on the Rez)in the wide open sage flats.And I've hunted them in the Ozarks, where you are lucky to see 75 yards. And in the rolling hills of southern OK. One thing I've noticed is that the thicker the cover the slower they come in. I've watched a yote sit in thick cover next to a small clearing for thirty minutes, trying to see what was making the food noise, before he came in. In the west you have to move farther between calling sites, in the east you have to call longer, and quieter, at each site. Maybe its because, in the east, they live in closer proximity with humans and have learned to be more cautious. Everywhere they try to circle down wind to come in. so set up with the thickest cover upwind and make Wylee circle into sparcer cover to wind you. Like yote bait said, pups are a lot easier so this time of year is a good time to start. Yote Bait, you may want to hang on to that mouth call, the 'yotes hammer our deer every time it snows here.

Hhmmm...now where did I put them calls...

4i's
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 20:17:17 (ZULU)

Compuserve: I am told that, yes, it is an ISP. It was purchased by AOl about 2 or 3 years ago.

Robert

tschiemer
ark, usa - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 20:46:35 (ZULU)

4i's; right on about the yotes. Yeah, I'm gonna try this 'mouth call' a little more. Actually I think I may have mislead the interpretation of mouth call. We normally think of a mouth call as something we blow on as opposed to a electronic call. In this case I mean there is no call other than the voice of the caller. In real time (most of the time) I usually use a mouth call which is also a howler to discuss the situation with the dogs. It's made by Doc Sceery and handles both jobs for me with the same reed. Some times we make a giant sucking (kissing sound) with no "call" . Don't try this on the street corner in San Francisco. The coyotes dig it but who knows who else does. I've used it as a coaxer but have called Dogs a half mile or more by using only lips.

Brogers
Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 23:02:24 (ZULU)

Ding, Check emporium,ref: acog

John

Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 23:34:28 (ZULU)

CMP M118LR ammo,

Anyone on here already registered to purchase ammo from CMP? Or wanna split an order. 2 ammo cans per order. I think it's 460 rounds per can and about 74# for $400.00. $200.00/400rds plus shipping. I tried to register tonite and don't want it to sell out before I get a can. Thanks,

John

Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 00:02:56 (ZULU)

Ref: M118LR Ammunition

John, I'll split a case with you. I'm not registered yet and will be taking off on Saturday and will be gone for a month. Go ahead and order it and we'll settle up when I get back. (I've got over 3 hours of PIC time already.........things are working out.)

Ref: Sinister Dave

I dropped in on Dave last monday and everything seems to be in order. Dave's new command is about as good as it gets for a "gun queer". He's earned it.

I took some time alone to visit my old haunts and the new Ranger Memorial. I got something in my eye down there........

Ref: 6.5x284

What do you guys do about uniformed neck tension. Tell me about "donuts" in the neck.

Ref: AR-10

Am I going to need a 20moa base to get to 1,000 yards with my new rig? Is GG&G the best way to go for a sloped base?

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 00:55:27 (ZULU)

CMP ammo;

Recently, the CMP went to what they call the "e-store". Everyone that has an affiliation with them has to re-register.

If you are not affiliated with the CMP, you can't buy from them.

Handi-rifle;

Does anyone have any experience with the H&R/NEF Handi-Rifles? They are a single shot break action. I kinda considered getting one for a cheap deer rifle.

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 01:36:37 (ZULU)

Has anybody heard from mike in oklahoma selling the leupold mark4 scopes for $600?

johnny meadows
Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 01:56:17 (ZULU)

Jody,

I registered tonite, I just don't want to miss out while waiting for them to approve "me". I even sent them a blanked out copy of my DL in jpeg so they'd have it in hand. I just thought someone else might be able to order it for me tonite or first thing in the AM. I have a feeling it will go fast.

Kevin,

If I can get it, you'll have it, sir.

John

Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 01:56:53 (ZULU)

Hi,

Just wanted to let you guys know about the type of questions I am getting back from dealers. Here's a sample statement:

"I don't understand the need for me to send a copy of my D.L., and lease agreement. We hold an FFL as well as an S.O.T. (Class III dealer)."

Well, they just don't want to send out a copy of their FFL or their lease. How do I REALLY know who I am dealing with? I sure am running into resistance getting anyone to comply with what you guys say they should provide to sell a rifle. Are you sure you require these things of your dealers? I never did before, but you saved me.

What do you guys make of this?

Thanks again,

Todd

p.s. I really am looking for a rifle to replace the one that you guys jumped on Mike Adams of OKC, OK about selling. I think I will go back to my old methods of finding one on my own, and taking the risk myself. I have demonstrated that your "requirements" are unsound, and ask for information that would not be resonably required of any dealer. For those of you that were so quick on jumping on him, if you don't like a deal, don't buy in. If I get burned, I will let you know, so you won't. If I get a deal, better for me. If you are decent folk, I might even let you in on it. This is the end of the road on this forum for me, I am not impressed with what I found here. A couple other really decent guys showed up out of the woodwork, so there are some good folks here too. In the future, when the chumps jump up though you might want to beat on THEM a little. t

Todd
Fredonia, ND, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 02:07:35 (ZULU)

Jody,

I sold one to a guy a couple of years back for our trip out to 'yote-Baits neck of the woods. His boys sure ruined a bunch of p-dogs with it. It's downright amazing how fast a teenager can burn up 223 ammo in a single-shot rifle. ;o))) Nothin' fancy; but a darned effective little rifle.

Doc

Doc Holloway
The beautiful Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 03:08:51 (ZULU)

Doc;

Thanks. I went ahead and ordered one a few minutes ago. I got it in .308 so I can use already available materials. Besides, .308 is my favorite hunting caliber.

Ace;

I hope you get in on that ammo. The CMP has a way of selling out really quickly on cool stuff. I'd get some but I have enough .308 supplies as it is. Although, if this were a year ago, I'd be on it quick!

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 03:39:41 (ZULU)

RE: Mike in OK City

I was one of the first to pay Mike Adams for a $515 PSS. I received a full refund today to my Paypal account around 17:30CDT. Not sure why the deal didn't go through, but I did get all of my money back. Details are available via e-mail to interested parties. I hope all goes well for the rest of you who made purchases from Mike.

Troy
MS, - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 04:17:52 (ZULU)

Well i got damn angry on the drive down here last night, driving down the A5 about at Frankfurt and some long haired hippie left wing communist m@#$%^F@#$%^g ashole drives past me, swings his van infront of me nearly causeing an accident, son of a bitch i think, and the i read what he has painted across the back of the damn van, "Kill All Coalition Troops" , M#$%^@# F%$#^r i thought, he had obviousely seen (couldn"t miss em) the Union Jack and the Stars n Stripes in the rear window of my van and was trying to piss me off with his driving, he kept slowing down causeing me to pass him, then swinging back in infront of me causing me to hit the brakes, what a ring piece, made me mad as hell, especialy the slogan on his van, the wanker should ask is mother n father (if he knows em) who gave freedom to Western Germany and learn some respect.

Don, did the drunken dude have a blonde pig in the rear of the car? wasn't me, guns booze n cars don't mix all together at the same time, if you get em in the right order they can be a great combination, ie. drive to woods, use gun to shoot pig, drive home lock gun in safe, drive to pub, get shit faced and find some blond pig who ain't drinking to drive you home, (failing that a mates sofa will do.)

Arte et Marte

Pete.

Peter Lincoln
Times are Hard(t) but he's Gerhard(t) ,land - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 06:57:41 (ZULU)

Hey Todd,

Ya kinda went overboard, just to make a point I think, but point taken. Goodbye!

John

Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 11:14:26 (ZULU)

Who are you Todd and what exactly are you babbling about? Did I miss something? I don't think anyone said you can't buy anything or from anyone you want; have at it.

drmarc

drmarc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 12:58:58 (ZULU)

Todd; I'm glad you got your money back. Mike, possibly had no ill intentions but you gotta admit $600 MKV's and $515 Remington Sniper rifles with undisclosed pertinent information to buyers is enough to raise an eyebrow or two. Do you have any idea how long those things would last at a Oklahoma City Gunshow at those prices? Makes you wonder why someone would want to go to the trouble to mess with mail order and shipping. Even Gun-Broker would bring prices much above that, in a heart beat. Check it out. All he had to do was explain it a bit. IT don't cost nothing to list here and a serial number check or FFL to prospective buyers would had insured his success. In most cases except for Auctioners, you can't sell someone else's rifle unless you are a dealer and record the sale. It's done all the time around but usually not on a national forum. The forum itself might be implicated should there be something illegal about the transfer. Sometimes disclaimers don't work in those cases where the Feds are concerned.

Brogers
Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 13:14:12 (ZULU)

Kevin....donuts....I'll hit you with an email with all that this "anal" benchrester can tell you !!!!

However, if you can find the ones with chocolate smeared over them, go for it....they're delicious !!!!!

A retired MC armorer in Culpeper, Va. area ???????? Was this a Brian N. Sain friend ?????? I'd like to get the contact info for this person again.......thanks

JRMoore

JRMoore
Northern, Virginnie, USofWonderfulA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 13:26:42 (ZULU)

I think that the only comments made on this forum were simply that if a person is selling in what would appear to be in a business, as opposed to a personal gun collection, BATF requires a FFL license. One should be entitled to get a copy of a current FFL to verify that point. Second, any seller should be prepared to show that he or she has the guns in their possession or have a good explanation why and when they will be in their possession. Thirdly, any seller should be willing to provide serial numbers for the buyer to verify with BATF the guns. Fourth, there is a "red flag" in a case where guns appear being sold below market value, in quantities, with a "hotmail" address, to inquire (1) are you a dealer? (2) are the guns in your possession? (3) are the guns yours? (4) may I see a copy of your ffl? (5) what is your name and business address. There is nothing wrong with selling guns below market value, selling guns in quantity, or having a hot mail address. A reasonable buyer wants to confirm however that things are proper.

No one ever said any thing about asking for a driver's license of a FFL (the individual driver's license would probably show a different address than the business premises address any way), nor did any one say you must get a copy of the dealer lease agreement. All any one said was be sure they have a ffl if in the business of selling guns. It was noted to be sure they have a real address. The ffl shows the address.

If one is selling from their private collection, it is not unreasonable, on the other hand, to ask for a copy of their driver's license, but for a dealer that would be unnecessary once the ffl is provided.

This is a good bulletin board with a lot of sound advice, including a lot of common sense.

That is my two cents worth, and others may have their own personal opinions.

Robert

tschiemer
ark, usa - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 13:31:16 (ZULU)

Knew the bloke wasn't you Pete when I read '28 yrs old' ;-). You need that 4x4 back with bull bars. Could've come in handy. Hope your op goes well. E-mail on route.

Jon

Jon Beardsley
Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 13:45:54 (ZULU)

Todd,

You have added things into your list that were not mentioned on this site. Now I asked if anyone had any information about "Mike in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma" because I was looking for references and I did hear back from a couple. What I haven't heard is any completed deals; no product delivered only delays, excuses and refunded money. His ads dissappeared from the Emporium and I haven't seen any posting that it was done by anyone in control of this site which means that "Mike" deleted them. If he was on the up and up as I mentioned in my e-mail to you then why has he not completed any of the transactions?

I don't like loosing money and I don't like my friends to loose money needlessly either. You are free to use what ever methods you like, no one here has ever said anything to the contrary. What has been said here and pointed out many times are ways to keep from being burned, and ways to avoid having the BATF or local law enforcement from knocking on your door to award you a new pair of bracelets.

Also, I don't believe that anyone here it trying to cause trouble or start fights because we all want to just learn more and enjoy what we enjoy doing be it shooting, hunting, or drinking beer.

Later,

Byron
CA, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 16:32:13 (ZULU)

Todd in ND,

I have a NIB Rem 700 LTR in .308 that I was considering offering to you as I need the funds to finance a GA Precision Rifle from another site.

However, your rant towards the folks here who were looking out for each other AND attempting to avoid any possible violation of Federal law by the parties involved shows that you are a meat-helmet. Ergo, pick up your ball and go somewhere else, I won't miss you. Please note, I have NO OFFICIAL standing with this site or any other and my opinions are worth what you paid for them. I speak for no one but myself.

If you can read all the noble things that most of these folks have done for our troops lately and still don't see how their concern was well-intentioned, then you've got bigger problems than not being able to acquire a rifle.

Good day, Sir, and Good Luck,

Pat with the Black Dog

Blackdog
S. San Francisco, CA, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 16:48:24 (ZULU)

Hi Fellas,

Did some preliminary testing on a 155 Scenar load for my 300WM. I was using Vhit N560 with CCI 250 primers in Winchester cases. I was just looking for velocities and pressure using 3 shot groups to get an idea where to start next time. Anyway the loads ranged from 75.5gr to 78gr in 0.5gr increments. 3 of the groups were 0.5MOA or better at 200yds, so it looked promising. Then my mate says "f**king hell you've got more than 3 foot of flame coming out of your barrel"; and it was a sunny day too. By now a small crowd had gathered. Three positions over was a bloke with a 338LM AW, with muzzle brake. My Vhit loads made his sound like a pop gun. I am still trying to clean the barrel. It ain't copper either, its carbon and it is a bastard to shift.

Me thinks I need to try a different powder, shame we can't get IMR over here.

Jon

Jon Beardsley
Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 16:52:01 (ZULU)

Just wanted to say that within 24 hours of posting a question on obtaining 77 gr sierra projectiles, I had four people respond with no BS, concrete solutions. Three offered to send me a bunch of bullets for free! The fourth suggested a method for obtaining a test lot.

Steve, Andrew, Larry and Aaron, thanks for taking the time to help me.

It sure is a privilege to be a member of this group.

medicjim
Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 17:33:32 (ZULU)

Jon, that flame was all that sheeps wool you stuff in them big cases trying to fill em up. Get an 06 and have done, n Bob will be your uncle.. i was 28 once you know and yep i need a 4x4, with idiot bars on it too. Tommorow is German Unification day, the krauts are celebrating opening the eastern flood gates so i hope it will be a good night in town.

I'm looking for a stainless rem 700, got my self a long list of winter projects to do, turn my parker hale 270 into a 9.3x62, curved pistol grip stock for the marlin, bull barrel from the 308 on to the 06 action and bed it in my spare modified sendero stock, PSS barrel onto tactical 308 and sell it, rebuild my 22lr. going to be a busy winter, have to get a workshop set up first.

Banana beer here i come,

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 17:44:43 (ZULU)

Kevin,

I just got an email from CMP. It appears they have been talkin to this Todd fellow cause I gotta send 'em acopy of my friggin birth certificate or passport to order from 'em. Somethin about proving citizenship. The ammo will probably be gone by the time I get 'em a copy of one of those, but I'm gonna try anyway. By the Way, Your HAT went out Priority Mail today. It'll be at the office when you get back.

Mike S. in Califirnicate,

Are you already registered with CMP? If so, order it and send me one can and I'll send ya the cash and then order another for me and Kevin if they don't run out.

John

Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 19:57:24 (ZULU)

Deer season is approaching, so I hope you all don't mind this question:

A bit off topic, but why is it that Federal does not recommend the Gold Match btph for hunting. I have only killed 1 deer in the little of my life I have been hunting (the last several years), and shot it literally through the heart at 125 yds with 308 Fed Gold match 168 gr bthp, and it worked fine. I would prefer to hunt with the same ammunition I target shoot with. Is it that on large animals, the round will not expand greatly? If I am shooting whitetails, I would not think there would be a problem in it killing them, would it? The deer I shot ran 20 yards. Robert

tschiemer
Ark, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 21:24:15 (ZULU)

Hello All,

This is my first post.

I have been a long time lurker, reading the roster daily. I have learned much in the last two years. I would like to thank all who have given freely of their time and knowledge.

Although listening to you guys is expensive, I now think in terms of Badger,G.A. Precision, and Leupold LR M1. (Thanks George, SCLE #6 is awesome)

Bruce, the silver-tongued devil award? No, Just talked with a few people who saw value in helping out. No big deal. The folks at Caplugs deserve all the credit.

Thanks guys, this place feels like home.

Back to lurk mode…

Chris (in Oregon)

codesmith
Oregon, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 21:33:34 (ZULU)

tschiemer,

Regarding BTHP ammo & hunting. From the folks at Federal, or at least their local rep, so long as you get proper incapacitating(killing) shot placement, the round will likely work. They simply are not designed to expand as are most "hunting" rounds. There is an expectation of "clean thru" shots not killing your quarry with BTHP. Short explanation.

That said, a LE sniper in Dixibama shot a felonious gun wielding waste of DNA, with a chest shot, with exit wound of about 2 1/2 inches. Certainly did the job. No hostage so he took a very sure shot at range much closer than had been practiced.

I've taken 2 bear the last couple of years with heavy 45 cal rifle rounds(thanks to Pete) with little to no expansion of the bullet but with door nail dead results. The recommendation from Federal is general as to application. My $0.02

Also, took a criminal complaint recently from a guy(dupe) sold his classic Chevy via Al Gore's Internet, to a guy in London, England. Buyer duped him into accepting a check "mistakenly" made out for too much, talked the seller into depositing the check & sending back the difference via wire. You got it. The dupe is out CASH $7500 and got a notice from his bank that the guys check was "bad." Moral of story, Know who you're dealing with. Was too good to be true. Then the dumas suggested he send the rest & have police in London snatch the guy up when he claimed the rest of the $$.

Doug

Doug Bourdo
K Town, WI, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 22:03:47 (ZULU)

Robert,

The Sierra Match King bullet that is loaded in the Fed Gold Match is not considered a big game bullet due to the way it is constructed. This is not to say that it will not kill a deer, as you have noted it will. It just is not made to mushroom like bullets that are made for big game. If you reload try some of the Sierra Game Kings in the same weight as the Match Kings you are shooting, you should get very close to the same results, certainly good enough for deer hunting, and a bullet made for hunting. In my Savage 10FP (oh no I let the secret out) I shoot Winchester 168 Ballistic silver tips for deer and they print very close to where my 168 Match Kings do, at least at deer hunting ranges. Good luck!

Rob Opp

Robert Opp
Jamestown, ND, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 22:04:37 (ZULU)

One more shotgun question,

Now, I've narrowed it down to the Rem 870 Express HD 7-shot. Some numbskull at Bass Pro Shops tried to convince me that the 870 Express wasn't a steel receiver and the 870 Marine Magnum was. Guess which one he had in stock. Anyway, an other shop told me the difference bewteen the Express line and the Wingmaster line is that the Wingmasters are "fitted" and the Express's are just "assembled" and that the Police 870's are built on the Wingmaster action, hence the higher price (also the name "Police"). Any of this true? Does a tighter fitting action benefit anything in a pump gun anyways?

One more NFA question,

OK, so I think I've decided to go the .22 "can" route (Instead of integral MkII). I'm thinking of a Walther P22 setup. I've been looking at Gemtech, Bowers, SWR, AAC, AWC. Any recommendations?

Rich

Rich S.
MD, - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 22:09:48 (ZULU)

Walther P22: Rich, search the current NFA discussion board, on www.subguns.com and do a search of Walther. There have been many reports of poor functioning, namely jams, in the gun, by those using it with a suppressor. I do not know if there are any current posts, and you may want to post and ask. During the last year, there were many many adverse comments.

A Ruger integrally suppressed pistol is reportedly quieter than with a screw on suppressor, I have been told.

I have been told that normally the Point of Impact changes when you put your suppressor on or take it off, if a can.

You might also consider a 10/22 with integral suppressor.

Robert

tschiemer
ark, usa - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 22:28:20 (ZULU)

Rich S.

I don't have any first hand knowledge of this but I have heard more than once and from more than one source the Walther P22 is VERY sensitive to the ammo you feed it and specially so when using a silencer ie..jamming. Just a thought to consider.

drmarc

drmarc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 22:30:29 (ZULU)

tschiemer,

Well I just got this straight from Remington's site.....

"What's the difference between the Express and the Wingmaster?"

"The differences between the Model 870 Express and Wingmaster are mostly cosmetic. The Express utilizes a birch stock and fore-end and non-polished matte finished metal surfaces. The Wingmaster has a walnut stock and fore-end and a high polished blued finish on metal surfaces. Internal parts are the same on both models. Both are built to the same mechanical specifications..."

I guess that settles it for me then. I imagine Remington sure as hell would say if the Wingmaster was fitted better than the Express. Years ago there probably was a difference, but I guess there isn't anymore. HD here I come......

Later

Rich

Rich S
MD, - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 23:01:44 (ZULU)

Wingmaster. Thank you for the information. If I was buying a new gun, I would go with the HD as well based on the information you found. Good call and good research.

Good shooting.

robert

tschiemer
ark, usa - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 23:12:28 (ZULU)

Gents- I just went to an ammo test where they had Winchester and Federal go head to head on the FBI pistol ammo tests. The stars of the show were the Winchester SXT and the Federal HST. The Federal HST 230gr .45 ACP was awesome. It averaged about 12" penetration in the gelatin through all materials. It expanded like a great big 5 blade propeller in all tests except the sheet metal and it still out performed all the others on the metal too. It was common to get over 1" permanent bullet expansion with the HST. This round impressed me and pretty much everybody there. The HST ruled the 9mm and 40S&W tests as well.

The Federal .223 TRU 55gr BTHP ammo had a good showing. Average penetration was 9.5" through all test mediums. It tended to fragment and deviate path after about 4-5". The Winchester 50gr Silver Tip performed very similar to the TRU. Both are touted as being very functioning reliable in the M16 and other semi/full auto rifles and carbines. My department uses the TRU in the M16’s and it has a very reliable history so far.

Winchester and Federal make good ammo across the board and are very comparable weight to weight it seems.

By the way for those that care, the Winchester rep said that Winchester and Nosler have had a falling out and it seems that when the supplies of Nosler 168 rounds (Winchester 308J Match) is used up Winchester will be going to the 168 SMK again. He estimated it would be in about 6 months or so.

Blackdog- "Meat helmet"....I like it =)

Take care,

Joe S.

Joe S.
Dago, CA, US of A - Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 23:48:51 (ZULU)

Acehigh,

I already do have a DCM ID #, but I have not completed my registration with their "E-Store". I did submit a request for my E store password, but I have not received a reply yet. As soon as I do I will order two cases and we can work out the other stuff off line.

Michael
CA, USA - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 01:01:27 (ZULU)

Gents,

Match Kings for deer? I recommend against it. As noted, they will do the job, but are not constructed for hunting. Also, in some areas you may have legal problems, as they may be viewed as FMJ's by the constabulary. Recommend shooting a weight close to your match/target/varmint/tactical load. Shoot a 165 gr. or 180 gr. if yo shoot SMK 168's/175's. You may be amazed at the accuracy of some hunting grades. Have had great luck with Speer's 165 gr. "Hot Core" BT soft point over 41.7 gr. IMR-4895.

Pete, Making a 9.3 X 62? Why not go for the 9.3 X 64 Brennecke? It will work through the M98 action and makes one hell of a rifle. Like a European version of the .375 H&H. Either are GREAT cartridges. What barrel weight do you plan. Enquiring minds...

Gotta run...grandkids are over for the next couple days...where did I put my duct tape...?

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 01:15:53 (ZULU)

The Expresses seem a little rougher on the insides. Mine had some trouble feeding until I polished the mag tube. It's steel.

CDC'
Friday, October 3, 2003, at 01:38:52 (ZULU)

CDC; ditto, I've had to smooth up a few Expresses inside.

Essentially the finish is just a few processes less than the Wingmaster. The outter finish is just unpolished steel blued. They rust a bit easier than the Wingers do. WD-40 will protect them outside but keep it out of the action in the cold weather.

The Wingmaster is a fine shotgun by anyones' standards. They don't quite fit me for a bird gun but they are first class.

Wes; Don't forget the broiler and oven doors on the stove as well as the other kitchen cabinet doors and the cleaning closet. Won't hurt to tape up the hole in the DVD and VCR either. The toilet paper roll maybe should go back in the towel drawer and taping the toilet lid down is legal in some cases. A strip over the bathtub drain and tape the phone on hook. :) Some people here probably don't understand what all this means. Oh yeah, put up the ash trays. And the drink coasters. Mine thinks the coasters are Graham crackers.

Just some secret coded sniper talk for you lurkers!

Brogers
Friday, October 3, 2003, at 03:26:05 (ZULU)

Joe, give me a jingle after you get settled in and get some quality time in, etc.

Remmy shotties....yeah. What y'all said! All my remmies have been Express models. Same same.

Shotgun News ran a nice article on a new round called the 6.5 Grendel. Based on the 6mm PPC round. Tested an AR type rifle chambered for it. The weapon and round both came from Alexander Arms...the people that brought us the .50 Beowulf. Anyone else see this? Many people have posited that if only the AR15/M16 family was chambered for a 6mm cartridge, it would be perfect. Wes, you posted about this a couple years back. Ammo availability is the only drawback I can see, but Lapua is making factory ammo and the article states that Lapua has tweaked the cartridge dimensions which will enable the load to be beefed up a little bit.

What say the experts? It sounds like a "good thing" (tm). The initial target for an upper is claimed to be $1050.00. They are also doing the mags....10 round mags for civvies, 25 rounders for LEO. Uses standard AR lower.

Test rifle used a Nikon 4-16X50, 30mm, mil dot, side focus. Looks nice, other than having that huge objective and 1/4" clicks.

Suprised no one has posted about this yet....perhaps it's not all that interesting?

Geoff M
WI, USA - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 04:21:52 (ZULU)

If it were me, I'd use the duct tape on the kids... NOT the house/wares.

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, TEXAS, US of A - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 04:23:36 (ZULU)

Folks,

Should have been more clear in my posts. My intent was NEVER to duct tape the house...just the we ones...;-)

Sharon saw right through that one...

Posted a nice 22/250 to the for sale section. Will take pictures if your interested.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 04:34:01 (ZULU)

Codesmith, you might want to look into getting a Howa. I've had fantastic results with both of mine, and I have yet to hear anything bad from anyone who has one. I just got back from Badlands, and the Longer one (24") printed five rounds through one ragged hole on the timed qualification round at 100 yds. It consistently held no worse than .75 moa across the board, and I think that was because of the shooter! The stock is some kinda cheesy composit thing, kinda like something from Ramline, but after floating the barrel and bedding it, it never shifts, and shoots from either the pack or bipod just fine.

The kicker is that it cost me $420 out the door from my freindly FFL dealer. You can get a barrelled action in the $300 range, and drop it into a McMillan stock if you want to, and still be under $600. The thousand dollars you save will get you a nifty Leupold and lots of reloading stuff. I stuff 46 gr of Varget in new Winchester brass with the Sierra 168 gr HPBTM, and it's an odd thing if it dosesn't shoot under .5 moa. Those are kinda stiff loads, but the bolt never sticks, and I don't see any pressure signs. Also, the bolt is slicker'n owl snot right from the factory, and a little prussian blue show that both bolt lugs are locking up square. My buddy Dirty Steve has a GA Precision rifle, and it is a thing of beauty, but the Howa was $1100 cheaper, and on a good day it shoots as well. It does tend to copper up a bit for the first 500 rounds or so, but that's just an excuse to shoot it a lot. Look into it, you'll like what you find.

Charle S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 04:35:10 (ZULU)

Charle,

I cant argue with you on the Howa, I shot one several weeks age, nice.

How are they to rebarrel? I'm thinking of getting/making something with a 20 inch barrel. I need a belt gun ;))Will keep the Howa in mind.

Codesmith

Codesmith
Oregon, USA - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 05:15:19 (ZULU)

Oh my head !

Wes, the 9.2x63 is available in far more factory loadings and is much more popular, ( i figure its about ballisticaly the same as the 35 whelan) and besides i just fancy one, dunno why. i'm gonna get a hogue stock for it and i'm thinking 22"heym barrel, slightly fatter contour than i'd usualy choose, its already got a decent trigger on it, sure the bolt clanks around like any 98 but i just like the thing and want to make a decent rifle out of it. I'm also toying with the idea, since this morning of turning it into a 450 marlin, but i'm wondering about feed angles and having to alter the action, the extractor is easy enough to alter, ahh mmm, sod it the 9.3 is a straight barrel swap, stick with that.

Do i have to comment on using match bullets on game? just don't, a game animal deserves to be dispatched as quickly as possible and a FMJ or BTHP match bullet will not do enough dammage, a deer hunting bullet is designed to expand to a certain degree, this creates far more dammage and a far greater wound channel than a match bullet will, now sure you can kill a deer with match bullets, and yeah you'd have no problems providing you stuck the bullet perfectly through the boiler room every time, but in the field things are never ever perfect, a match bullet that stays in one piece will zip through from side to side on a deer like a lazer, but what if you have to have to angle the shot through some tough shoulder and bone, FMJ's have a tendency to tumble or wander off course when they hit and some exen just blow up, in either case, with anything less than a perfect side shot you run the risk of not damaging the deers vitals, which leads to suffering, now i know we could go along the lines of, but i'm a great shot and i'll only shoot at a perfect side on, bull, when you just hiked up a damn great mountain, you see the buck of a life time, the buck fever gets you, or the damn wind is playing tricks swirling around the hill sides, then there is no such thing as a perfect shot, take the longish range buck i shot this summer in Scotland, misjudged the angle of the wind slightly and put the bullet a good 6 inches to far back, if that had been a FMJ the deer would never have been recovered, luckily the BTSP Hornady interlock is a reliable expander and did enough damage to anchor the deer until it could be dispatched, even using the wrong kind of deer bullet will get you in the shit, use one thats too hard and it will zip through with out doing much dammage, use one too soft or frangible and it will expand to much and not reach the vitals, you want to be doing everything you can to ensure that you have 100% chance of killing the deer on the spot, some of todays deer bullets exhibit enough accuracy potential to rival match bullets, you can pick and choose one that will match the trajectory of your target load easy enough. Sierra game king, Nostler Ballistic tip, partition Hornady interlock or SST, and several others are all a good place to start for deer bullets, if your after larger deer ie elk, then start with the partition, the lapua mega or something thats a little tougher. Sure i know in Afrika they use (used to) solids, but thats for pure penetration purposes, the ranges when using solids are never very long, the game it tough, and basicaly you keep shooting the animal with solids untill its dead, and of course the bullets ar greater in diameter then your avrage northern hemisphere deer bullet, an half dozen 40 to 50 caliber holes will do enough dammage even with zero expansion. Use the right tool for the right job and you won't go far wrong.

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 07:38:11 (ZULU)

Gents,

Pete, the 9.3 X 62 is a great cartridge. I own a custom .35 Whelan Improved is built on a FN Commercial M98 action. It sports a 23" Krieger barrel, english walnut stock, and leather covered recoil pad. Scope is a 1.5 X 5 Luppie vari-x III. I put three 250 grainers in 3/4" at 100 yards last week when sighting in...it's a sweetie. The Whelan is a wonderful cartridge.

Thanks for reminding us of our duty as hunters and our responsibility to dispatch game quickly and reliably. All to many hunters today are hung up on everything but that. To me it is the essence of the hunt.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 08:16:31 (ZULU)

Pete,

The 450 Marlin should go nicely into a Siamese Mauser action. Box is designed for rimmed cartridges. I have sen several 45-70s built on them over the years and about 25-30 years ago Navy Arms offered complete 45-70 rifles built on them.

Marc Palmer
Friday, October 3, 2003, at 09:06:37 (ZULU)

Mike/Calif.

Let me know when the order is placed. I'm still lookin for my damn birth certif.

CMP contact: 256-835-8455 ext 27; Janet Ryder/Registration

jryder@odcmp.com

John

Welcome Codesmith!

Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 10:46:01 (ZULU)

Marc, now you got me in a dilema, 3 rounds (450) sit in the mag easy enough, now do it shorten the mag length so the rounds can't move back and forth to far, or will it be ok as it is? this is a mauser action with a springfield bolt ( parker hale put em together)its a nice looking action, has a parker hale adjustable trigger on it, the stock is a piece of packing case but that will get binned, i figure this would be a nice little project, screw it i just talked my self out of the 9.3 and into a 450, 18 inch barrel, hogue stock and moderated, put a picatinny on it, replace the alloy bottom metal with a prpoer mauser unit, now that be good piggy medicine, controled round feed, should be reliable, that way i can use the lever gun purely for driven game shoots and nachsuche, follow ups etc and put a long eye relief scope on it scout style, ive a couple of 98 carabiner actions kicking about that i can build a 9.3 on, one is German, with nazi waffenamt markings and the other is well, its all in spanish, so i'm buggered if i'm sure where its from. anyways ive go plenty to keep me busy through the winter. Did her in doors manage to transfer you the cash for the reamer yet? i forgot to remind her. Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 11:02:55 (ZULU)

Pete,

Not sure about the funds, I don't watch the German account and I don't tell her what to watch for. She always wants a piece!

Anyway, The Spanish thing sounds like a La Corona.

On a lark a freind of mine and I built a 7.62 Nagant on a 98 action. Worked fine as long as you made sure the rim below was behind the one above. As to the magazine capacity, Ralf down in Albershausen has a nice conversion from a standard mag to a dropped one using the military box.

If you've got the barrel out try loading the rounds in the magazine and then cycle the action. You might need to remove the extractor to get it out of the way. If it does not work it will probably be a rail problem you will have to think over. I doubt you would need to block the magazine unless there is enough recoil to cause one rim to jump over the one below.

If it works, Bob's your uncle!

Marc Palmer
Friday, October 3, 2003, at 12:17:45 (ZULU)

Ref: Wheels Up

I'll be away from the board for a few weeks. I'm headed back to the Far East and will do my best to keep this trip uneventful. You guys play nice and be good while I'm away.

Ref: Rifles Only Match

I plan to shoot the Rifles Only Match in Texas on November 21, 22 & 23. I hear it's a well run and challenging match. Are there any other Roster Hogs planning to attend? John?

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 12:50:34 (ZULU)

SMKs for deer hunting....only if you can always shoot 'em in the head! other than that, use a game bullet as has been already pointed out!!!

Was 27 degrees here this AM..Hard frost...Bucks should be getting fired up soon as it gets colder and the days get shorter.

Took a MGM 8 inch flopper plate up to the range yesterday and staked it down for daily practice with the Dakota prior to deer season..One shot a day from various positions...Paint the plate every seven days. No more shooting from the bench, except to maybe verify zero or shoot the .22, 'til after buck season.

outa here

Markwell
The frosty Alleghenies, WV, - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 13:23:28 (ZULU)

La Corona, ain't that a beer? oh there i go again, i supped a gallon of banana weitzen last night and i'm thinking about beer again. Barrel is still on it, i'll have to get the mauser head for my action wrench, that box extension sounds interesting, and i can see one for sale in the frankonia catalog, i'll have to relieve the extractor as its for a 270 at the mo, what i'm gonna do is barrel the german karabiner with a 9.3x62, the corona? one, (i'm assuming same threads) will get the 270 barrel of the parker hale and it will get a 450m barrel,then i'll have 3 nice little projects, ever seen a clip for magnum head size, be handy to load the 450 bolt gun with clips, hmmm interesting that would be.

I'm gonna go and test out my new steiners and see if i cant bag a pig tonight,

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 15:04:18 (ZULU)

This good looking man walks into an agent's office in Hollywood and

says "I

want to be a movie star."

Tall, handsome and with experience on Broadway, he had all the right

credentials.

The agent asked, "What's your name?"

The guy said, "My name is Penis van Lesbian."

The agent said, "Sir, I hate to tell you, but in order to get into

Hollywood, you are gonna have to change your name."

"I will NOT change my name! The van Lesbian name is centuries old, I

will

not disrespect! my grandfather by changing my name. Not ever!"

The agent said, "Sir, I have worked in Hollywood for years... you will

NEVER

go far in Hollywood with a name like Penis van Lesbian! I'm telling

you, you

will HAVE TO change your name or I will not be able to represent you."

"So be it! I guess we will not do business together" the guy said and

left the agent's office.

FIVE YEARS LATER.....

The agent opens an envelope sent to his office. Inside the envelope is

letter and a cheque for $50,000.

The agent is awestruck... who would possibly send him $50,000?

He reads the letter enclosed...

"Dear Sir,

Five years ago, I came into your office wanting to become an actor in

Hollywood. You told me I needed to change my name. Determined to make

with my God-given birth name, I refused. You told me I would never make

in Hollywood with a name like Penis van Lesbian.

After I left your office, I thought about ! what you said. I decided you

were

right. I had to change my name.

I had too much pride to return to your office, so I signed with

another

agent.

I would never have made it without changing my name, so the enclosed

cheque

is a token of my appreciation.

Thank you for your advice.

Sincerely,

Dick van Dyke

Peter Lincoln
joke time - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 15:06:40 (ZULU)

Acehigh, Two cases of the M118LR ordered this morning....

Michael
CA, USA - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 16:04:19 (ZULU)

Folks... just wanted to take the time to warn you all.

I recieved an undeliverable email back to the email account which I use with this site. The email was not sent by me. The attachment, entitled "thank you" contained a virus.

What this suggests to me is that someone was reading the roster, noted my recent post thanking members for help, and decided to try a trojan attack on another poster...

They would have to know the target's email address from before the site hid email addresses.

The whole thing could be a coincidence, but I have enough concern to mention it...

medicjim
Friday, October 3, 2003, at 16:14:49 (ZULU)

HOGs a few things:

Just finished two weeks teaching around 12 hours a day. Shotgun and Pistol. Found a problem with some Winchester ammo. Its 40 Cal 180 grain HP Ranger in tan box.. This stuff would not feed in the Sig226's worth a darn. The problem is the case mouth. Looks like they forgot to chammer after cutting to length. The mouth looks like a freshly cut water pipe with juts a sharp ridge running around it. Sigs have tight chamber and the sharp edge caused problems. Now we are talking about about 120 SIGs that have never had a problem in the past. This is practice ammo for us but some may carry this, hence the warning. We have used this brand before but this is the first problem. Its a smaller lot(30,000 rds) we just got in and have just about run through. Issue ammo is Federal Hydra Shox and that has worked perfectly.

On Express versus Wingmaster. I agree with what CDC said except, one other thing the Express does not have is trued sides and top of receiver. They rough mill them but they dont take the time to true them up. This is only a problem if you add Ghost Rings sites and can be solved in a few minutes. Frankly my combat shotgun rigs usually stay as an Express to save money.

No other news on home front.

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
CA, - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 16:47:24 (ZULU)

Viruses: There is a virus going around that attempts to access your email and then send emails to itself like you described. About 30 days ago, I had the same thing and spoke with both AOL technical, and with the computer administrator at work. I took my cpu to work, and he ran a complete check and found no viruses, so I thought it was someone trying to infect my computer and did the following: changed password, and after running a complete check on the drive for viruses, we set up a daily scan using the Norton antivirus program that has daily updates. (I normally had been checking for updates from Norton ever several days), but now I have it checked daily on a prescheduled scan on my home computer.

I do not know very much about what I am telling you as far as technical information, but this is what was recommended to me.

tschiemer
ark, usa - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 18:02:57 (ZULU)

Hi Fellas,

Birthday coming up and fancy a new set of scales, so I am interested in anyones views. I quite fancy the Redding (No.2), but also hear the RCBS are good. Most of my other kit is Redding and I like their stuff; but which do you guys prefer?

As always any comments will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Jon

P.S. Talking about birthdays Pete, did you get the e-card Rachael and me sent for Rebecca?

Jon Beardsley
Friday, October 3, 2003, at 19:05:30 (ZULU)

medicjim

Incoming via USPS expect it Monday or Tuesday.....

Ok Hawgs, I got the dreaded zero shift.....

From ASC#2 through the end of June the stick was dead nuts for wind. No shooting from mid june to Mid August.... took it out on three seperate occasions between mid August and now and I have a nice ~3" black dot on the white 500 yard swinger! appx 30 rounds into that same group. The problem is that with zero wind I have to put 2moa on to be centered where it was "0" wind in June.

The ugly green step-rifle is a Remmy700 Varmint special early 90's vintage in .308 wearing a half painted Mcmillan woodland pattern USMC M40a1 stock, action is fully bedded with pillars & chamber IS supported ~2" in front of recoil lug, Badger rings and base, loopy VXIII 3.5x10 LRM3, harris bipod (medium notch leg w\o swivel), undude sling....

I plan to verify the torque on all screws tonight, but it isn't accuracy that is goofy, how much and how hard of a whack would it take to cause a 2moa shift directly sideways? No recall of any major drops or whacks...... Always a chance that the windage turret cap slipped but that puppy seems tight - will double check it tonight also.

Ideas and VooDoo counter curses accepted!

Steve ~ Hockeyref
Friday, October 3, 2003, at 20:47:59 (ZULU)

Jon,

E-mail to you. It's clean.

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 20:54:48 (ZULU)

UnDude: I didn't know you was a scatter gun instructor. Let me know if your teaching abything that's open to us civi's. I've been looking for a class in my neck of the woods but the only one seems to be Sig in NH and their dates didn't work for me this year.

I picked up a Benelli Nova 18" with all the bells and whistles. It was a keeper right from the start. With Fed 2 3/4 classic slugs it groups at 75 yds like my 308. Hell I'm going to use this one for deer hunting. I like that it shoots everything up to 3 1/2"ers but even with the recoil tube that's got to hurt.

TonyY
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 22:25:26 (ZULU)

Steve - Zero Shift,

Question: Are you shooting the same lot of ammo or is this a different lot?

Byron
CA, USA - Friday, October 3, 2003, at 23:55:45 (ZULU)

Steve "hockey ref"

As long as you are shifting to the right everything is OK. When you start to shift to the left, then I'll start to worry. Give me a call if you get a chance.

william bierbower
Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 00:13:48 (ZULU)

Byron, it's all out of the same batch of handloads that I loaded for ASC#2.... LC64match, CCI primer, have to look up the charge of RE15..... literally the same loads!

Willie... I'll hit you tonight... maybe bust a couple caps tomorrow early afternoon if you don't take yer longbow for a walk.....phone call shortly.

Steve ~hockeyref
Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 01:45:34 (ZULU)

Steve....

Quote;

"The ugly green step-rifle is a Remmy700 Varmint special early 90's vintage in .308 wearing a half painted Mcmillan woodland pattern USMC M40a1 stock, action is fully bedded with pillars & chamber IS supported ~2" in front of recoil lug".

Steve, if this is a Rem 700 Varmint contour barrel, I would not have (personally) bedded ahead of the recoil lug( 2"s')..there is a taper there.

This could ( possibly) be causing you some problems.

On a 5.5 contour, USually there are not bedded except behind the recoil lug, and full length reciever, or at the tang, recoil lug.

I prefer the recoil lug all the way back.

But, I am no smith......if I am off base here, one of the SMith types can correct me,as this has always to my understanding been a no-no.

Two Shoes

Terry
Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 02:28:07 (ZULU)

Dos Zap....

It is the varmint contour tube.... now that I look closer at the chamber area, it has more taper than I thought it did and starts closer to the recoil lug. Since I know she shoots and the receiver is bedded full length with pillars I think I'll dig out the dremel tomorrow.... it won't take but 5 minutes to do the deed.... I was looking for an excuse to go to the range - now I have to verify my zero after performing minor surgery.

Willie, I am definitely going out to SAG between noon and one now.... I'll call you in the morning.

Steve ~ Hockeyref
Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 04:48:49 (ZULU)

Tony, I spend alot of time teaching cops to shoot Shot Guns and Pistols. Been teaching Shotgun since around 1986 or so. Pistols before that. I can do five day shotgun classes, three day shotgun classes or five day half shotgun and half pistol classes. Hit me off line and we can work something out. No real secerets and nothing about a shotgun or pistol I would not teach civilains. Hell in a few years I will be a civilian myself. Basically all my teachingof shotgun and pistols is geared toward fighting with them. Transistion, tactics and abilities of the systems. Shotgun and pistol classes are high tempo and lots of fun.

Undude/Mike

MikeMiller
CA, - Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 06:49:01 (ZULU)

Mike, A good friend of mine on the Riverside Sheriff Dept, stopped over, and I showed him your M24 sling w/cuff on my Winchester, he said he wanted one for his bolt rifle, his name is Rick, Former Marine, gave him you site, thanks >>> Don (zcree)

Don Rutledge
Riverside, CA, U.S.A - Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 07:10:01 (ZULU)

Jon, if you need new scales your diet ain't working !!, haven't opened the home mail for a couple of days, (altzheimer on the pass word) I'll tell Anke to have a butchers. So when are you 40 then? i was stalking last night, those steiners are very good, and the rubber eyepieces that sort of go around the side of your eyes make viewing in the dark easier, there is no periferal light getting at you from the side,i'm not to keen on the plastic cover for them though, its to fiddly, i'm gonna change it for the one thats the same as the M22's. stalked a bunch of pigs who where in some bramble bushes, gaddamn wind kept changing on me, spent 3 hous approaching from 3 different directions only to have the damn wind drop me in it as i got within about 50m, the pigs moved off away from me and i had to withdraw and out flank em, only to have it happen exactly the same from the opposite direction, only clear shot i had was with no bloody back stop so i let it pass, and i only got that because i was on all fours grunting like a hog and shuffeling in the dirt as if i was rooting, hell if anyone could have seen me, and not to be advised in areas where a few guys hunt i guess, just as well i'm there on my own. Sacked it and went to bed at 02.00. Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 13:19:03 (ZULU)

Jon,

Next time you're up this way, let's go ahead and lap that 300 winnie barrel eh..I'll be gentle, promise..

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Jockland - Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 14:01:24 (ZULU)

Hi, All!

Long time no see. I'm out of grad school now and in the classroom teaching US History at the high school level. After the ususal first few months of chaos and madness as a new teacher, I am finaly finding time to play with some tight-shooting toys again.

New Project: AR-10 Based DM Rifle:

After years of messing about with M14-based DM rifles, I have come to the conclusion that this is something of a lost cause. I recently traded into an AR-10 flattop with a (pretty much useless, in my book) 16" stainless tube on it. Having seen just how well a chrome-lined tube can shoot in the form of my 1st gen FN Special Police (1/2 MOA, all day, every day to 500m and probably well beyond), I dont feel compelled to mess about with unlined barrels anymore, so no AR-10Ts, thanks. I am getting in a chrome-lined barrel from Armalite (unless someone has a better source or a takeoff they want to get rid of) and am going to fit a tubular handguard to float it out. I figure that it will probably shoot at least 1 MOA, which is quite adequate for what the gun is being set up to do.

A Completly Novel Question: What Scope Do I Get? :-)

Question: the FN SPR currently has a Leupold 3.5x10 M3 LR on it, and frankly the gun and I are accurate enough that it could stand a bit more magnification and a bit finer adjustments that 10x and 1 MOA allow for. Those 500m hostage shots are a bit iffy, 'yaknow? :-) One thought is that I could put it on the AR-10 DM gun and put something else on the SPR that has a bit more magnification (say, an IOR 4x14 tactical or a Leupie 4x14 tactical), or I can just put a 2.5x10 IOR on the AR-10 (where the lower bottom magnification might come in handy if the AR-10 has to be pushed into battle rifle/CQB service). I dont expect any of you will have THE answer, as none probably exists, but I would still appreciate some comments in any event.

Good to be back!

Tom Simpson
Colatown, SC , US of A! - Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 14:14:43 (ZULU)

Holy shit Pete, 'bout spit my coffee.

Dick van Dyke ...

brian k. sain
Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 14:36:30 (ZULU)

JR MOORE: ONE of the best I've seen. Comparable to the excellent work of the Chandlers and George. Please tell he and or his wife hello for me. Good friends of mine. Spoke with them two weeks ago.

LEO CONRING

CONRING PRECISION WEAPON SYSTEMS

21328 PENOLA RD.

RUTHER GLEN, VA. 22546

804-632-1111

804-632-1112 FAX

lhc0353@msn.com

brian k. sain
Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 14:47:20 (ZULU)

hockey ref -

Is there any chance that the windage knob could have shifted? Other than the torque setting you mentioned, you got me.

Jon,

Scales - I think I am spoiled when I started reloading I bought an RCBS 10-10 and really never looked back. Since that first scale I've picked up a couple of backups but not really replacements. Check ebay (my computer is hosed right now and can't get there from home) they have some good prices on used ones. The scale is actually built by Ohaus which is a well respected name in the scale business. They also offer them in metric versions if you like or need that option. One of my backups is the Lyman M5 (also make by Ohaus) with the only difference between the two being the .1 gr adjustment. The 10-10 uses a weight on threaded shaft while the M5 uses a moveable weight and indents on scale like the 10-5 scales.

If you are going to get into weighting objects of various weights and need quick readout of weight then go digital. I also have the Pact Digital Precision scale and it is great! Midway has it on sale right now for $129 and comes with storage case, powder pan and two check weights. Works 10 times better than balance beams scales for things like bullets and cases.

Later,

Byron
CA, USA - Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 15:36:44 (ZULU)

Need advice Please:

Replaced the factory trigger today on a Rem 700 LTR .308 with a Jewell, Wow what a piece of work.

Problem when re assembling the weapon everything fell into place except there now seems to be a rocking of the barrelled action in the stock before tightening the trigger guard screws. It does not seem to drop into place solidly and I can find no obvious restrictions holding the action from seating. The trigger seems to be exactly the same dimentions as the stock trigger overall.

Any suggestions where to look. Also what is the correct torque for the two screws.

Thanks in advance for any help on this issue.

Barry

Panama City Florida

Barry
Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 15:58:24 (ZULU)

Rocking Action:

I would very carefuly observe the rocking motion and try and determine the point at which the fulcrum lays, then examine that part of the barrel channel or inletting for debris, flashing from the moulding process from when the stock was made, etc. Some OEM stocks that HS Precision makes for Remington have some dimentional problems that can only be corrected by bedding, so this may have to be done in your case as well.

Tom Simpson
Colatown, SC , US of A! - Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 16:35:20 (ZULU)

Barry,

You may have already tried this but;

- take it back apart (action out of stock)

- look for marks on the stock or trigger where they may be rubbing

- check the pins holding the trigger in and verify that they got set below the outside edge of the action

- dump the stock upside down in case something fell into one of the wells like where the recoil lug sits and see if any debris falls out

- carefully re-assemble ensuring that the magazine well seats into the trigger guard correctly (I usually leave the floorplate open during assembly to make checking easier)

- place action screws in place and lightly finger tighten and see how things went before final torque

If that doesn't work bedding may be the right action to take next.

Later,

Byron
CA, USA - Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 17:48:12 (ZULU)

Hi, Brian, i like that pic of the patch you sent me, i want one.

Barry, 7.344012 Nm (Newton meter)(7.3Nm will do) is the correct torque for the screws on the remington 700/HS stock (and its the same for the Steyr SSG just for info sake).. oh damn i forgot you lot on that side of the pond use them old fashioned units of measure ments don't you, now before some one tells you to go out and cut a stick of willow thats an inch thick and 12 inches long and tape it to your wrench and when the stick breaks Bob will be your uncle and you'll have the screws tight, i'll do the maths.. ha.. its 65 lbs/in (inch pounds).

Jon, Iain was telling me you had been measuring your powder in level table spoons and thats why you had turned the 300 into a flame thrower, any truth in that? Tell Rachel that she will be able to use the scales in the kitchen too, or on second thoughts, tell her you will use em in the kitchen.

JR, hows about lapping this damn rust out of my Heym? maybe make it shoot again.

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 18:36:17 (ZULU)

Barry,

Check the trigger...front, it may be very well making contact with the stock..a bit of inletting may be in order.

Also, check the recoil lug, and make sure it's not bottoming out in the stock..

Two Shoes

Terry
Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 19:14:32 (ZULU)

Yo gents!

Been in Europe for a few weeks now and finally got decent internet.

Went to Italy to play with the Italian Army sniper school and now this week we are in Madrid fixing to play with some Spanish lads.

Italy was cool. Besides playing with the snipers got a chance to see the vatican, all of the old shit in ROme and even made it to POmpay and see more old shit.

I like Madrid. More "European".

Headed to Germany in a week or so. I think we are going to be in the Nuremburg area if any of you reprobates/lukers wanna link up let me know.

Out here

Gooch
Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 20:08:06 (ZULU)

.308 Win. shooters FYI,Champion shooters Supply in New Albany, Ohio

has .308 Win. Lapua brass for $32 /C + postage.

1-800-821-guns

www.championshooters.com

I have no finiancial interest in their operation

only a very satisfied customer.

Steve from New Joisey

Steven Dzupin
Wayne, New Joisey, US of A - Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 20:30:52 (ZULU)

Thanks for the info on the scales guys. I shall have to count how much money falls out of the birthday cards.

JR. Thanks for the offer, much appreciated as I know your a busy man, but I will be placing that order pretty damn soon. Then the fouling tube will be a hassle no longer (unless the JR 5R is a diiirty pipe ;-) ). Once the FC has decided what the new firearms policy will be and once I decide what bullet I want the throat cut for (hmmmm Lapua 185s or Sierra 220s?!?!) you can stick me on the waiting list. Will you be going to Ponteland with Lee and Geoff tomorrow, if so see ya there?

Pete, tablespoons, ha. Coal shovels ;-). Beware the 65in.lb. on the SSG. I know the Mannlicher fella said so, but I tried to torque Iain's up to that and bottled it when the plastic trigger guard/bottom plate started to creek; and the wrench felt like it had a bit more to go. I've seen a few Model 'M' s (virtually the same as SSG) in plastic stocks (are the same as the SSG) with cracked/split plastic radiating from around the screw holes. Oh yeah, can you get a price for the rail on the bottom of the SSG (the bit the pod/sling slides onto); Iain has split his? And did you confirm the ring prices? To the question of when will I be 40, that'll be another 9 years, 31 today (9 years that is scarey). You'll have to tell me what its like ;-)

Cheers

Jon

Jon Beardsley
Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 22:12:26 (ZULU)

Hey Everyone,

I'm the new guy around here, so I just thought I'd introduce myself. I'm a Father, Husband, Sate Corrections Officer; Peace Officer, Former US Marine 2531 Field Radio Operator and Former Army 19D Scout. I'm also the newest Moderator over on Snipers Paradise and post regularly on the Hide too. I hope to be a productive member here, as well.

We now return to our regualarly scheduled posting...

Respectfully,

Harry

Harry
New Jersey, USA - Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 22:27:15 (ZULU)

Harry,

Welcome. You'll find this forum peopled by the finest folks you will ever encounter (the most forgiving, too....they even let me play)! Just don't take anyone too seriously, especially Sain (I've seen him table-dance).

Todd in PA,

Thanks for the check for the troops and the kind words. It's folks like you that make this possible. Child Bride always grins when she has another Thank You card to write!

God Bless our Troops.

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 22:55:58 (ZULU)

Harry;

Here's a hardy handshake and welcome.

F-class match;

If anyone is interested, the shooting club I'm in has F-class matches. It's at 600 and 1000 yards. Just off Interstate 10 in Mississippi, near the Alabama line.

Like most places I've heard of, the F-class is done during long range high power matches.

There's about 4-6 F-class shooters on average. I hope we can get more.

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 23:12:42 (ZULU)

RE: Redding reloading. I won as a prize a substantial discount on Redding reloading gear. I currently am using an RCBS Rockchucker and was looking to upgrade it. I load .308 precision rounds. The rockchucker is fine for that, but would also like to mass produce .45 ACP, .30 carbine, and .223 rounds. I've looked at the Redding catalog, but was hoping from feedback from some of you that already own their stuff. You can hit me off-line.

Thanks,

Mark Johnson

Mark Johnson
Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 23:14:35 (ZULU)

Mark;

I have the Redding 3BR powder measure/dispenser, scale, and tumbler kit. I have found those items to be well made and quite accurate.

LATER

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 00:24:33 (ZULU)

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the welcome aboard! I appreciate the advice, but I'm pretty thick skinned. If anything, my wit is apt to rub others the wrong way.

Thanks again.

Respectfully,

Harry
New Jersey, USA - Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 00:59:02 (ZULU)

Jon, you kept that birthday quiet didn't you? wots up scared you'd have to get the beers in?? n you say i'm a tight yorkshireman..All the Best mate, many happy ones ahead eh. All them bloody SSG stocks crack at some point or other, i'f i had one it would be in a McMillan.I'll check on the rail price but how bad is it dammagd? i'd just shorten it and screw it back in and with the rings it looks like he undercharged us for the 26mm ones, told you its got expensive here since the Euro. I'm just planning the teams leave/vacation for 2004, ive put 11.03.04 to 16.03.04 in for me for the IWA, so get Iain thinking about your trip.

Gooch, how long you in Germany? i'm not far from Nurnberg, but i'm in for my knee op on tuesday so i'll be out of it for a couple of weeks, Marc P ain't far though either, be nice to introduce you to weizen beer with banana juice.

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 01:04:34 (ZULU)

Harry welcome aboard. I see your from NJ. Where do you shoot? Maybe we can get together one day. Are you going to the Tac Pro match?

TonyY