Sniper Country Duty Roster

September 1999



Serri,

You didn't butt in, and your point is well taken. I read that General Giap (NVA) once said "The only rule in war is, you must win." He was right.
Preach that E&E any time you like.

Later,
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 01:23:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.31)


Anyone familar with the new laws affecting honest gun owners in the Peoples Republic of California? I understand that the current regime wants it where if you have a "assault rifle" you must give it up! Also, I heard that there is pending legislation to ban so-calles sniper rifles. Has anyone heard any of this crap? Also I want to share with all of you >308 buffs out there. I shot a group out of my custom Remington that measured .168". The load was 40.0gr Varget with a Sierra 175gr HPBT, F210GM primer. I moly coated the pills but I don't see any real difference except that I don't have to punch my bore until 120-235 rounds. Has anyone tinkered with the 175 Match Kings? Let me know
Jim
jwhiteII56@hotmail.com
Jim <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 02:22:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 165.196.190.71)
Greetings Folks

Well while Mike was off getting his vacation from which he needs a vacation, he left me with a webpage to build. Upon his return this afternoon we made a couple of quick changes and he has asked me to let you all know about his latest product.

I am proud to announce that Tactical Intervention Specialists is now producing the MRRB - The Mildew Resistant Rifle Bag. This product takes the place of a field-expedient sand sock and unlike the sock you wont get Athlete's Foot on your cheek from it.

The MRRB is made with the attention to detail and ruggedness that those of you who bought one of Mike's Quick Cuff Slings have come to know.

Drop by and check it out!
JT - Webmaster For Tactical Intervention Specialists <tenarius@memorableplaces.com>
Oakland, California, USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 02:26:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.184.139.147)


Bill B. There is no substitute for knowing you weapon and how to fix it if it goes down! Your odds are probably better with the M1a1 since you know it and what to carry to keep it going. ONly thing better is for it not to go down and nobody can guarantee that. There ain't a horse that can't be rode or a gun that don't ever break that I know of. The bolt is a good precaution if have it. A bolt gun can break a firing pin...I once broke one in a Styerr Manlicher $$$$ sniper rifle bigger Dallas. Course I don't use one anymore! Shat happens! It's a game of odds that keeps you alive and well. I guess it's like 1911 Colts. I love em and love to shoot em but trust em to keep me alive not! I've had some real Gems that won matches because they were reliable but out of the box I'd sooner trust any decent Wheel Gun, HK USP or Glock in that order. NOt intended to start a which Handgun is best discussion cause we've been there and done that.
MIke Undude I got to go with you on the drag bags. There must be something I'm missing there. But I just don't see me crawlin through enemy territory with my Sniper Rifle draggin behind me where I can't get to it. Sometimes... I get the impression there are those who don't think a bolt action can be employed against combat targets that know you are there and have you on so called firepower. I'd rather charge a platoon of UZI's than the worst Coyote Hunter I know with a bolt gun! Maybe a single Bolt Rifleman can be overrun but the cost would be high. Better be runnin low and fast! If you charge a Sniper and a spotter with 2 12 gauges. Who's first?
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 02:43:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Aaaahhhhh!!! I can't take it anymore! I've been reading The Duty Roster for several months now and every time I see someone write something about a M1A1 I wonder what they are talking about. The only M1A1's I know about are "Tommy guns" and tanks! Surely they can't be referring to the M1A??

OK, I'm nit-picking here and maybe I need an education on this, but when it comes to the commercial semi-auto versions of the M14 the ones I know about are the M1A, M1A-A1 and M21. Exactly what is this M1A1 I keep seeing mentioned?

Gary <GSX1166@earthlink.net>
Kansas City, MO, USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 02:47:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.27.28.159)


Gary;Damned if I know? I thought it was a Springfield Armory rifle that was tricked out or something! These things are all variations of the M-14 and it's hard to zoom in on one as the example of the whole group of weapons/target guns and Assault variations. I'm just goin round spreadin rumors I guess.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 03:03:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Suggestions wanted on a gunsmith who can intsall a Hart barrel on a Rem 700. Hart can do it but it will take 6 months. They have a backlog of work.
Roy <.@.>
USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 03:05:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.130.4.100)
Here I go again with another slightly off-subject post - hope you will all forgive me!

I got motivated to do a bedding job on a rifle last weekend. The rifle involved in this project is a Rrrrruuuger 10/22 - but wait.... it's not a regular old Rrrrruuuger 10/22 - it's got a Clark match barrel and a Volquartsen fiberglas stock! Still there??? OK - I prepped everything and got ready to mix up the Brownell's GLASBED stuff.... what the hell is this.... the hardener is already hard!! I had 3 GLASBED kits on hand and all of them were useless because the hardener was already hardended (or at least partially hard!). So, I'm down in my basement ready to do the bedding thing and all I've got on hand to do the job is some J-B Weld. I figure what the hell - if it doesn't come out good I can always get out some sandpaper and get the crap out of there - so I bedded the thing with the J-B Weld. The deed is done and I must say the job sure as hell looks and feels good - but I'm wondering if this J-B Weld bedding job will hold up for any length of time.

So.... have any of you tried J-B Weld as a bedding compound and what were the results of using it? I probably wouldn't have gone out on a limb and tried it on a harder-hitting caliber, like say a .308, but I'm hoping it will be suitable for a .22LR. What's the verdict???

Gary <GSX1166@earthlink.net>
Kansas City, MO, USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 05:05:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.27.42.46)


GSX-Gary,

Funny you should mention J-B weld, I just picked up another blister packet of it last night. For something as "feeble" recoiling as a .22 rimfire just about anything high grade epoxy composite should work O.K. I take it the action still came off the stock and isn't a "glue in"?

Jim White,

Just outta curiousity what velocity does 40.0 gr. of Varget give with the 175 MK's?

Serri,

Right on dude, Who was it that said "Winning is EVERYTHING" - Atilla the Hun? ;-)

Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 12:35:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.72)


B. Rogers, Mike M.,

About the Sniper Drag-Bag thing. If the Sniper is real good at FieldCraft, and Stalking and is taking full advantage of his Longrange Shooting skills, I think his chances of survival are much better than those on the wrong end of his rifle. They won't be able to find him, much less, shoot him. I mean after all, he is concealed at long range, and their leadership is now minus one...or more! And our Sniper has a Spotter, who prob has an M16/M203. My money is on the Sniper Team.

Gotta Run Guys,

Bill

Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 13:30:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.52)


Scott
I thought I would pass on a well done here about the Padded Scope Covers from the PX. Neat product and with all the money we invest in scopes this is cheap protection. I use an OD on my L42A1/MIVM3LR and the black one on a 110/SSM. Well worth the money and and Scott does this as a service.

Sea Food dinner for Scott if your ever in the hood.

MJ
MJ <montereyjack@kmenterprises.com>
Monterey, Kalif., USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 17:49:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 165.236.189.200)


About drag-bag.
I am no sniper so somebody might be offended, but is it possible that you should use drag bags in some situations and do not use them in another? (Same as camouflage—you wouldn’t use woodland cammo in the city, would you? Or use .22 for elephant?)
It is obvious to me that it will be hard to drag the bag through dense bush area (same with the trees, jungles etc) and what is more gratifying for a foe to find the movement in the area—and it’s a sniper trying to free a stuck bag. On the other hand it is easy to drag the thing though low grass or sand. This may explain, in my opinion, the fact, that people who live in open country love the drag bags
Another thought is what kind of target you are stalking-- stationary, moving, alert etc.
For example: you are stalking a moving target (let say platoon size) and then they turn toward you and your rifle in drag bag somewhere behind you…
In my opinion it would be OK to use drag bag for stalking non-alert stationary target, when you can get close, make a position, wait for perfect shot etc.
Again it is my personal opinion. So as Mahoney in “police academy ” said—“be gentle”
HK

HK <HenryK@marvineng.com>
LA, CA, USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 17:51:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.165.39.19)


On the issue of stocks.

As I read in an early contribution, ergonomics is everything, especially if you're not the "Mr. Average" that all manufacturers build rifles for. In my case it's the length of my neck - I cannot shoot a rifle with a straight comb. I always buy a stock with the correct drop at heel and comb and modify the rest accordingly. I'm extremely fussy about pistol grips - they need to be nearly vertical, have no curve to bunch up your fingers and MUST have a palm swell (got to be comfortable if you're gonna sit behind it from dawn till dusk)

I buy fibreglass stocks unfinished - no paint etc. I put a couple of small self-tapping screws in the pistol grip and mould a new shape with plumbers' epoxy (it works like play dough when you activate the two components). I then spray the stock with automotive stone-chip paint (usually black but you can be pretty creative) and two coats of matt clear laquer. I have done this with EVERY long-range rifle I own and it works. This finish is as hard as any manufacturers' - I defy anyone to break the epoxy grip. Try it with an old stock sometime, you will be converted.

TooLong
TooLong <huzier@caribsurf.com>
- Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 18:30:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 200.50.93.2)


J.B. Weld; Gary I never tried it but I never thought of it either. That stuff is pretty tough. Why not?
On the Drag Bag; I guess if your going to crawl for a couple of hours to a couple of days and your dog meat if they spot you anyway it doesn't matter. But situations can go to hell in a handbasket so soon I wouldn't like to have to bring up the drag bag after someone thinks they have seen something and starts walking toward you. If the scenerio is that you have a spotter and he has his rifle ready and you have your gauge also it would be not so bad to have the rifle dragging back there and the spotter to free it should something get caught.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 18:36:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Drag Bags,
I must admit that I felt a lot like Mike when it came to drag bags ,that is until I had to actually do a stalk and crawl through grass and weeds. I had practiced by hooking my thumb through the sling and pulling it along as I went with the rifle resting on my arm. I soon found out that it catches on most everything and slows you down but not knowing any difference it worked for me. When i got down to the shoot in Nebraska the sniper boys were kind enough to let us use theirs if we wanted. I tried one and for our county out here it worked great. The ones we used were fairly light and not to bulky like a lot I have seen pictures of. It was more the size of a big rifle case with a few extra pockets on it. The snipers showed us how to tie it to our waist and drag it so you could guide it with your foot and if you need it, its not more than a pull away from you. I think its a matter of personal preference and terrain that will dictate there use, but all I was saying is give one a try before you throw the idea out the window.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 19:11:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.221.188.130)
Just acquired a Howa 1500 .308 Police Model. It is shooting great during break-in..Have a Chance to trade it on Rem. Pss..Am considering trade because nothing (accessories)seems avalable for Howa model..Any suggestions??
dan <Ltdan@wnclink.com>
USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 20:21:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.95.89.150)
Great thoughts on drag bags and good points.

Me thinks it would be a good idea to carry all your gear in one instead of a ruck sack which I really dislike. (still haven't figgered out how you can use a rucksack on a stalk, would look like a big humpty back camel coming through the bushes). If you have a spotter with you and you get spyed on he could keep the bad guys off until you could get the bag up to you or you could get your side arm out.

But I also think that you may want to pull your weapon out prior to getting in spook range so that if you have to take a longer shot than you had planned it would be ready to shoot.

Plus it really looks sexy!

Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 21:05:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.47)


Dan,

Keep the Howa,and be happy, my understanding is that the bottom profile is like the Win M-70(flat) and the top(where you screw the scope mounts on to)is round and matches the contour of the Rem 700.
So all mounts should be able to mount on your Howa,that are made for Rem 700's,you would have to check.Now I am going to piss off some Rem 700 owner's,so if think the pinicle of action design and manufactor is the Rem 700,just skip this post.The Howa has a flat bottom and usually bed's easer and better,also the Howa has a extractor that is better than the Rem type and is replacable,and last but not least the whole action is made straighter,truer and to more precise tolerance's.
The last thing I would do is to trade it on a Rem of any sought.

Chris
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
NZ - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 22:37:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 203.97.45.228)


On Drag bags,

I pull the drag bag on a piece of nylon web strap. The front of the bag is up to where it is a little above my ankles, so I can "Steer" it with my feet. Must admit I have never tried a 600yd stalk/crawl with it. Hell, 50 yds is a long crawl to me! Bag is attached to a snap link on my belt, via a nylon strap. The bag is still needs some improvements for carrying equipment, and attachment of garnish. It seems that if someone can see me pull the bag up to get the rifle, then I picked a bad final firing point, or used poor camo/field skills. Or maybe I just ran out of luck. Whatever, it is good to talk about these kinds situations though.

Later,

Bill

Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 22:43:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.200.44)


Drag Bags: My primary area of operation is No. Calif with lots of underbrush and bushes that can not be dragged or crawled through, so my view of drag bags is that it is one more thing to get caught on something. I have a cover that goes over my rifle and protects the muzzle and scope areas. One unit, kind of like a scabbard. It has a small handle and weighs next to nothing, compared to the commercial drag bags. I prefer this to the big drag bag. I like to go as light as possible.

Who ever I offended, I was just giving my opinion. You can do what ever you want. As to stalking I have never had a student do well in my AO dragging or carring one of the big bags. I am sure it has its place but I prefer to have something more versatile. If your in tall grass, jungle or whatever why would you want your rifle tied up where you can't get it if you had a choice?

If any of you think you are such great stalkers that you will never be seen or heard, by all means use the biggest darn bag you can find and haul a piano in it for all I care. I will stick with a small ruck(shooting support) and a smaller protective cover for the rifle. I can drag it, pull it, carry it, sling it and if the poop hit the fan shoot from it.

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tacticali@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 23:35:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.26)


Dan:

All I want to know is, where did you come up with a Howa police gun? Is this a currently cataloged (or uncataloged) model? I remember seeing some Smith and Wesson-Howa wooden-stocked police guns years ago.

Before my ordeal with Remington over my 700PSS "outrage" gun, my original plan was to obtain a Howa heavy barreled action, McMillan stock and build the sucka' from the ground up, but alas Interarms only seems to bring them in in fits and spurts and none were in the conventional sporting goods supply system. I went with the Remington 'cause I *assumed* that Remington was the standard-setter, the best bang-for-the-buck, the One True Turnkey Solution. Wrong-o. Refer to the archives to see just how awry things went before I finaly fixed the damn thing myself.

There was an artical in TS magazine some issues back that detailed how a 'smith built up a Howa much as I intended to and that confirmed the high opinion of Howa bolt guns I have held for many years. They may not exactly be big innovators or original thinkers in terms of action design, but they have displayed good taste in deciding what features to rip off from others. The actions are true and require little to no tweaking and the OEM barels are actualy of rather good quality. The trigger is servicable and fully adjustable. The extractor is strait outa' Finland: why pay somebody to add a Sako extractor to your Reminigton bolt when Howa already puts it there for you? The bolt is a no-tools takedown design, a very nice thing for guns that live hard lives in the real world.

Built a sporter for a guy one time at the shop I was working at. He wanted an accurate, powerful, high-quality rifle and he wanted it cheap. Okay. I order in a Howa barreld action in .338 for all of about $225 at the time and a &50 Bell and Carlson stock. I unceremoniously slapped it together using steel-filled Acra-Glas jell, and I had a first class 1 MOA rifle with factory ammo. Add a Vari-X II and Redfield mounts and, well, what else is there to want in a hunting rifle? He was most happy, and I was most impressed with how simple the whole job had been.

-Tom
Now in the market for a Howa long action to build a .30-06.

PS: Morris: MY shooting jacket is a Creedmore product that they make out of a heavy green canvas, which does a fine job of splitting the difference between a full heavy jacket and the old USMC-pattern cloth jackets. I think they sell for about $90-100.
Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Cheery Colatown, in hurricane-resistant SC, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 00:00:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)


Does any one have any load data on the Hornady A-Max .30 caliber bullets? I have tried the Hornady 168gr HPBT and had no luck getting them to group under a inch and a half. The Sierras poke a nice group, .316 or less. Also has any one tried the new Nosler J4 competitiopn 168 grainers? Please let me know how you did with these. I am workinf towards 1 bullet, one powder, and one primer.

Semper Fi!
Jim
James <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 00:15:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 165.196.191.11)


The recent exchange on Howa actions sent me to my 1994-95 Brownell's catalogue. There alongside the Remington barrelled actions you'll see Howa Model 1500's. Comparable retail prices to a Model 700, if a little less ($382 for a Howa vs $424 for a somewhat similar Remington). Brownells's secret pricing code will remain a secret with me ...

Terry

PS the 1000 yard range in Saskatchewan, Canada with the esker was completed over the summer. There will be a three day shoot second weekend of September, not that I'll be able to attend.
Terry Warner <terry.warner@sympatico.ca>
Canada - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 02:08:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.172.92.85)


Hey guys,
I'm looking for detailed info on installing pillars and glass bedding a Rem M-700 BDL....
A buddy of mine had a 338 Mashburn Super Mag build by Mcgowen and it seems to be scattering shot all over paper.......
So yours truly as been appointed to fix it.........
I tried to explain to my friend just trade that Rem for a good winchester M-70 and your troubles would be over, but he was set on THAT darn Rem.........

So any help would be appreciated........BigGunn.............
BigGunn <meghan@penn.com>
Mtn.Country, Pa., USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 02:26:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.29.101.4)


Remington 788 Modifications

To Scott(T.O.O)
Thanks to Steve and Ron N. for corresponding with me. Scott, you need to read the Nov. - Dec. 1978 Rifle magazine (Issue 60). It has a great article on building up the 788. I'm working on a practical rifle starting with a 788 carbine in 7mm-08. The only thing I have to solve is the magazine issue. The modifications suggested by D.L. Rowe in the Rifle article require a lengthening of the magazine support which means that once you start using 5 round mags (also explained well in the article) you can't use the factory three rounders. I'm working on a change to Rowe's design that will allow you to go back and forth. I'll keep you posted.
John
John <murray19@prodigy.net>
USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 02:38:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.0.133)


Does anyone have any comments on the Ziess/Davari 5x15 variable or the Savorski 6x24 variable. Would appreciate any input. Am considering putting one or the other on my newly acquired 700 pss. Thanks in advance.
halfblind <jorgensl@ix.netcom.com>
USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 03:17:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.187.94.34)
Bill Rogers-- I enjoyed your 8/29 post, especially the part about will being the most important thing, more important than numbers, weapons, everything. Simon Bolivar in an open letter to the people of Venezuela in 1814, as they were trying to throw off the red-handed colonial rule of the Spaniard: ".....Do not compare your physical forces with those of the enemy, because spirit and matter cannot be compared. You are men; they are beasts. You are free; they are slaves. Fight, and you will win. Victory is granted to the persevering." The Liberator know how to fight and how to write! If you are a reader try to find "Selected Writings of Bolivar". It's letters to and from him during the fight for freedom, fascinating stuff.

I see some recent posts about high power shooting. I'm getting back into this a bit after dabbling in it 15 years ago (to get my M1). The chum who is helping me out is a pretty regular winner at local matches and has shot Perry several times. I was pretty impressed to see him shoot MOA or nearly so at 200 yds with iron sights. Dang, what if he had a scope!?
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
3R, MI, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 03:21:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.137.46)


Re: VarGet, Hornady Bullets... 40 grs VarGet seems way to low but the shooter must be following the Sierra manual, which is OK. Am shooting 155 AMAX, 168 SIERRA MK and 175 AMAX with 45.0 VarGet with great results, Unfortunately I don't have a chrony (hint, hint wife)so I can't spout all the empirical data. BTW, these loads are being shot out of 2 different Rems(700V & 700 VSSF) and 2 Savages(Tactical & Scout)all .308, so something must be working !!
FORGET the 168 Hornady match bullets, for that matter I am higly disappointed with the HORNADY TAP ammo. Just for "grin & chuckles" I pulled 40 rounds of 100 rds to check them out. The brass ISN'T chamfered and the bullets themselves have a weight variation that boggles the mind. These are for LE use ??!! I sorta "Mexican Matched" these loads and inserted 168 Sierra MK moly and will shoot them against the "factory" Hornady.
As for the Nosler J4 bullets...picked up a half dozen while at the SHOT show and the weight variance wasn't as good as the Sierra MK OR Nosler's own BT's !! Hmmmm...anyway, the weight varied by over 1/2 gr either way from 168 and that was only for 6 !
Last but not least... Drag Bags, made mine from an old isssue "jump" bag. Works great with some modification (Extra zipper and a towing strap) saved a lot of $$$$. To me the main problem is what do you intend to use the drag bag for ? I'm in the South and I generally use it to transport to and from my Starlight case which is in my truck and if my truck is a ways from the firing area. Unless there is a specific reason to drag more gear all over the terrain...Why do it ?? I use what is known as "Finger Cots" to cover my muzzle to keep crud out. Most drag bags I have seen would make a good guncase to stash behind the seat and maybe a nice mat to shoot on. Any Active Duty slotted shooters have details about using drag bags?? Trigger? Thats my 2 cents worth.
OUT HERE
Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
Alabama, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 04:08:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.192.80.183)
Drag Bags,

Aren't drag bags these days a little overkill? I mean drag bags like the Eagle and Blackhawk are just massive and have a zillion pockets to hold everything but the kitchen sink. Wouldn't you be better off to just buy a basic soft case that fits your rifles profile as closely as possible and then just camo it up and have a neater and more managable case?

TR <WITNES2012@aol.com>
Portland, OR, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 04:31:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.54)


UnDude,
Just because you don't happen to agree about the drag bags and you voiced your opinion doesn't mean you offended anyone. Hell if we all agreed on everything this would be a boring sight!! I even agree with what your saying and I sure as hell ain't no expert on them either and the one I tried was small and light weight with only a couple of pockets in it for maybe a bino or a range finder. It actually wasn't much bigger than the ballistic nylon rifle cases you see for sale and it also had some nice features for attaching garnish to.

Howas,
Are pretty fair rifles for the money they have some nice features but are havier than hell when you buy one complete. It feels like the stocks are made out of concrete!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 11:46:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.221.188.130)


Duudes,

non-pocketed Drag bags are featured under the "In Review" section of Sniper Country. Might bear looking at for those who think all of them look like a stretched Alice pack.

Funny you should mention Hornady TAP, mine had bullet weights of within 2/10 grain and powder was REAL CLOSE. What lot # do you have?

Chao!

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 11:48:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.156)


Chris & Tom,
Thanks for the info on Howa..I purchased it from a local gunshop tha t have them in stock..It is a 24" heavy barrel with synthetic stock(butler creek?)..The only Mcmillan stocks available seem to be the Sako styles. I was hoping for an A2 type..This gun really shoots though..Under 1 moa while breaking in..Thanx again..
Dan <Ltdan@wnclink.com>
NC, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 12:27:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.95.89.150)
A snippet from "The Prince" by that Machiavelli dude: He even uses my "most excellent" language.

Chapter VI:
Of New Dominions Which Have Been
Acquired by One's Own Arms and Ability

"Let no one marvel if in speaking of new dominions both as to prince and state, I bring forward very exalted instances, for men walk almost always in the path trodden by others, proceeding in their actions by imitation. Not being always able to follow others exactly nor attain to the excellence of those he imitates, a prudent man should always follow in the path trodden by great men and imitate those who are most excellent, so that if he does not attain to their greatness, at any rate he win get some tinge of it. He will do as prudent archers, who when the place they wish to hit is too far off, knowing how far their bow will carry, aim at a spot much higher than the one they wish to hit, not in order to reach this height with their arrow, but by help of this high aim to hit the spot they wish to."

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, bY-gAwD, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 14:00:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.58)


Jeez PeteR, have you gone to the dark side or did you just get through watching Robin Hood? LOLLOLOLOL

Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 14:53:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 170.98.67.135)


Just read the drag bag article on "In Review" section. Some good info here , check it out. Anyone know of a source for the GI canvas , I think M1950 series rifle bag for parachuting. I want to try and make a drag bag/transport case of one. Will a 26" barreled long action M40 type Remington fit in one?
Thanks,
Don
Don <tdfarmer@concentric.net>
USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 15:34:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.83.80.108)
UnDude/Mike,

Hey, you didn't offend me a bit. Your opinions are certainly appreciated. Commercial Drag Bags are big, and bulky. I think smaller and lighter drag bags are the way to go in the field. Drag bags have their place in the bag of tricks, it is there if you need it. Sounds to me like you developed a bag/cover that suits your A.O.
Great Stalker? Me? I wish!! I try different things to see what works, and what doesn't. It's been interesting...and frustrating too.

Best Regards,

Bill
BillB <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 16:07:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.192)


Bill B,
Sounds like you and I have the same feelings about stalking, its frustrating and a young mans game!!(HA) I am of the school of, just get me there and I will shoot it!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 16:24:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.221.188.130)
Hello. For those of you who answer questions on the dangers of teaching young people to shoot. In the Toronto area a retired high class call girl is offering
jiliyan milne <jiliyan@hotmail.com>
toronto, ont, canada - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 16:35:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.164.161.11)
While we are discussing drag bags, what about G-suits?
Do you always need them, or you could leave with netting simmilar to "Stalker" thing? At least the netting doesn't have that much weight.
Any opinions?
HK
P.S. Mike/Undude. I live in S. California and have same underbrush, and the problem to drag myself throught it, not to mention drag bag.
Another question in California it is two colors yellow and green, which one is to use for cammo netting or G-suite? And what color is better for city?

HK
HK <HenryK@marvineng.com>
LA, CA, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 16:37:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.165.39.19)


I fear that the end of my note was lost. Computers are wonderful.

Anyhow. This high class call girl is offering lessions to women "in the trick of the trade" Most of the women who take the classes ate happly married middle calss women with office jobs.

I understand that the husbands of the women have no objections to the classes - indeed -I have been told that the are just sooo happy to help with the home work...

My point is that the morality and danger of a skill or a tool is dependent stri ctly on the use a person chooses to make of it.

That is why I hope that you might add to your opening page that people under 18 are allowed in with adult supervision.

Take care
Jiliyan
jiliyan milne <jiliyan@hotmail.com>
tortonto, ont, canada - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 16:43:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.164.161.11)


Been away for a bit, come back to find an ad for a retired "high class" call girl? Very nice! Whatever changes the webmaster made...I like:)

Old Dog
Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 16:51:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.16.162.10)


OK, I see the point. What I have is basically a small light 3/4 length drag bag, so I am going to make a full length light weight one and give it a try. What I have tried in the past was the 20lbs specail available from the big names.

Camo for Calif. I like RealTree Brown for the grass and low hill area. Urban I like gray

Time to make some slings for the Carlos Match.

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif`, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 18:11:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.48)


Man I don't see how you military folks put up with the funky stinking smell from your nylon waterproof gear. Just got some surplus stuff and, opened the box and damn near gagged. Anybody know how to clean this stuff. If I used it on a stalk, Al O. might think I was one of them sheepies and put his nose down and track me down. Damn what a smell!!!!!!!!!

Minor question.....
Did Carlos use a gillie suit?????????????????
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 19:54:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.186)



" Anyone know of a source for the GI canvas , I think M1950 series rifle bag for parachuting. I want to try and make a drag bag/transport case of one. Will a 26" barreled long action M40 type Remington fit in one? "

**************

Sadly, no. A fair bit too short, I'm afraid. Bought one for $12 with the very same idea in mind. It could perhaps be used as raw materials for such a bag but not as-is.

-Tom

Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Dowright tropical Colatown, SC, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 21:29:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)


Dan:

McMIllan told me a few months ago that they make the A2 (I think) for the Howa. Sounds like a plan to me. :)

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Efficiently run if slightly bland Colatown, SC, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 21:38:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)


Scope for An M1A (Burris vs. Leupold)

I am getting ready to make my first purchase of a quality scope (quality for me at least). The rifle I will be putting it on is a Springfield M1A Enhanced which is not a tack-driving precision rifle by any means but I still want as much quality in the optics as I can afford. I bought a Springfield 3rd Generation mount before I knew any better so that will limit the accuracy in itself. I don't think I need a long range scope since I don't ever plan on shooting more than 300 - 500 yards and probably not even that.

I have been looking at the Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10 X 40mm but noticed the Burris Black Diamond 3-12 X 50mm which is about $50.00 more.

I know there are lots of Leupold faithful out there, how about Burris defenders? What kind of optical quality, durability can i expect from the Burris.

Any other thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated as well.
JamesB <jbarrier@juno.com>
WA, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 23:06:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.82.215.2)


Does anyone have any experience with the new Steyr Prohunter SBS series of rifles? I hear they are making a heavy barrel .308 model. Are these on par with the SSG?
Jason <BaronSomed@aol.com>
Scottsdale, AZ, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 23:16:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.205.16)
Don,
I have jumped an M-60 plenty of times with a M1950 and it still had some room left over. There is an M1950 Modified which is used for the M249 SAW and wont fit anything much longer. If it has a yellow leg strap it is an M1950. If it has a white leg strap it is an M1950 Modified. Should be plenty of room for a rifle with a 26" barrel.
TR <WITNES2012@aol.com>
Portland, OR, USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 23:27:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.195.59)
Pete - Will get back to you on Lot# of TAP after this weekend.

As for the M-60...it isn't a M-24 and you have to modify the 1950 case to fit which any good shoe repair shop could do. The 26" barrel is just a bit longer and if you have a recoil pad added to the stock makes it just a bit longer yet. Inside the 1950 case is a leather piece which can be cut to allow another 3/4" and as stated earlier. modifying the case helps. What I did was cut the case and add a zipper where the barrel normally goes. Works for me !! Brigade Quartermaster was selling the 1950, I forget the price.

I am going to be "out of the loop" till 10 Sept, Ya'll take care, shoot straight and often !!!
Later, OUT HERE
Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
Alabama, USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 00:50:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.130.38)


JamesB.,
Burris puts out a fine piece of glass. My only complaint would be with the 50mm objective. It puts the scope way up in the air and I personally have a hard time with that. I have sold several of them and none of my customers have ever complained about the quality.
Doc <docs@fidnet.com>
The Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 01:15:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.229.72.139)
This website is great. Probably the best I have seen on the subject. A wealth of information.

Thanks.
John Haus <JWH446@aol.com>
Walnut, CA, USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 02:05:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.199.173)


Hello all,

I have found that Hornady die sets have a superior locking ring method. You'll find that they don't have set screws which will destroy the threads on the die body. This allows you to readjust things in the future without fighting crushed threads.

DP
Dale Pennington <pennstar@hotmail.com>
Round Lake, IL, USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 02:46:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.185.24.106)


Pat/Mr Bullet,

Have you been to SMTC yet? Are you going to SMTC for the Carlos Hathcock II Memorial Match? I would like to, but will prob have to work.
Yep, I am starting to think the shooting is the "Easy" part, and Stalking is the hard part. Oh yeah, it would be a lot more fun if I were 20yrs old.

Well, gotta go load some more ammo.

Later,

Bill
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 03:05:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.36)


Honored Shooters,
Can I have some of your combined experience on the best hunting load that comes closest to the 168 grain boattail hp by federal that my agency hasme shoot onduty.I know a well placed shot is best of all and know two legged animals drop just fine with my duty load.I don't want to seriouly redope my rifle to go hog hunting so any commercial
Max Houser <Badkarma6@mbayweb.com>
Monterey, Ca., USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 08:21:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.227.158.82)
Honored Shooters,
Can I have some of your combined experience on the best hunting load that comes closest to the 168 grain boattail hp by federal that my agency has me shoot onduty.I know a well placed shot is best of all and know two legged animals drop just fine with my duty load.I don't want to seriouly redope my rifle to go hog hunting so any commercial
Max Houser <Badkarma6@mbayweb.com>
Monterey, Ca., USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 08:23:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.227.158.82)
Max H-

I have no reports on the penetration of the load you are using, and you did not specify whether it was match grade ammo, Federal Premium, or what. Most states that allow hi powered rifle hunting, require only that a round/rifel meet a minimum muzzle velocity/energy, and that you use hollow points or soft tips. depending on where you aim, you could most certainly down large game with that load. If you are not worried about trophy (a practice many frown on anyway, but whatever floats your boat) you could quite easily take a head shot,and save the meat. So long as you are confident in your rifle's acuracy, and your ability, that would work fine. Some people I know from one department, go for a neck shot on deer, using the same rig and load they are duty slotted with, and have great success. I believe the aimpoint is midway or just a hair more up, right about where you cut off at when butchering, go for the mass of muscle there. That spot has a lot of arteries, nerves, and none of the deer they have taken have run more than 10 to 15 feet. As far as using a different comparable load, I will let some of teh ballistics gurus here debate that point. Another idea is get several comercial hunting rounds in the same *range* of weight, some lighter, some heavier, some the same, go to the range and see where they group as compared to your POA.

Quickbow
Quickbow <quickbow@hotmail.com>
unworthy of mention, Maryland, USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 11:32:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.227.43.15)


This "Mach of the Day" is for Bolt, Bill Rogers, and Partisan.........

Chapter XIV:
The Duties of a Prince
with Regard to the Militia

A prince should therefore have no other aim or thought, nor take up any other thing for his study, but war and its organization and discipline, for that is the only art that is necessary to one who commands, and it is of such virtue that it not only maintains those who are born princes, but often enables men of private fortune to attain to that rank. And one sees, on the other hand, that when princes think more of luxury than of arms, they lose their state. The chief cause of the loss of states, is the contempt of this art and the way to acquire them is to be well versed in the same.
Francesco Sforza, through being well armed, became, from private status, Duke of Milan, his sons, through wishing to avoid the fatigue and hardships of war, from dukes became private persons.

For among other evils caused by being disarmed, it renders you contemptible; which is one of those disgraceful things which a prince must guard against, as will be explained later. Because there is no comparison whatever between an armed and a disarmed man; it is not reasonable to suppose that one who is armed will obey willingly one who is unarmed; or that any unarmed man will remain safe among armed servants. For one being disdainful and the other suspicious, it is not possible for them to act well together. And therefore a prince who is ignorant of military matters, besides the other misfortunes already mentioned, cannot be esteemed by his soldiers, nor have confidence in them.

Chao!

oops heres the link for those who wish intellectual substance:
http://www.mattbrown.net/machiavelli/
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 11:36:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.66)


Bill B,
No, I haven't been to SMTC but whould love to go. I am signed up for the match but things have changed here at home so I won't be able to make it. My son gets married next weekend in Iowa and the week after that I have to turn around and head back to Mayo for my wifes check up so I have just ran out of time. I would love to make it out just to be able to meet some of the guys, that alone would be worth the price of admission. Maybe next year!!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 11:46:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.221.188.130)
Can someone send me some names, addresses or phone numbers of some good M1A/M14 armorers. Building up one and would like to "tweek" a little more accuracy out of the service grade components.

Appreciate the help.
Darren <xm852@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 12:04:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 195.92.67.40)


Mach was one smart s.o.b.! Some of these bleeding heart politicians should read some of his stuff. Problems is, intellectual and politician in the same phrase is usually but not always oximoronic.

How DID Carlos make it across that field undetected?

"Prince" Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 12:10:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.43)


Bolt:

When you run across coated nylon products that stink badly, this is uslaul a sign that the urethane coating on the nylon has chemicaly failed. Older (pre mid '70s) commercial backbacking gear does this as well. Later formulations are more stable.

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Outrageously beautiful this morning Colatown, in sunny SC, USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 13:19:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.213.174.100)


I am currently a sniper with the Minidoka County Sheriff Office.

I am looking for training and equipment to further my abilities in
this field. I look forward to further communications.
gary l fowler <tucowgrl@cyberhighway.net>
rupert, idaho, USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 14:11:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.161.38.195)


Pete,

Gotta love that Machiavelli! Thanks for the snippets.
Dan A. <damish@velocity.net>
Erie, PA, USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 15:06:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.31.4.47)


This is one of the best sites I have had the opportunity to visit.
Thnk you.
Wayne Howard <wayniac70@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 15:29:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 137.241.250.101)
Hey guys, thought I'd throw in my two cents worth on Drag Bags and G-Suits. I do not use a drag bag and we actively discourage drag bags in SOTIC. They will get you in trouble in many instances. The things will reach out ten to fifteen feet just to grab a branch and scream "Here I am!!!". Seriously, during a stalk, snipers have a tendency to become focused on what is the most obvious, movmetn for them. The weapon in a drag bag is out of sight and out of mind. This cuases drag bags to "stand at attention" when snagged while being dragged along the ground. The next problem is the abuse becomes greater because, well hell it is "protected". I have jumped all over students who have dragged a weapon while walking because they have crawled through a danger area and then stood to walk. If you keep the weapon in your arms you will protect it properly. Take the time to move the weapon and place a protective scope/action cover on the weapon as well as a muzzle protector (Mike makes a fine one). This makes the weapon close at hand, under control, and in you attention zone. It only takes a bit more attention cycles of the brain to maintain control and move the weapon with you instead of dragging the dm thing!!!!

G Suits, most people make burlap wooly boogers. 60 to 70 percent of the suit is natural camo with the burlap used to break up the outline. The G-Suit is designed to blend you with the terrain, not hide you NOR desguise you. Burlap looks like burlap, NOT grass, bushes, trees, nor PDs :). A head veil will get alot of people through and a body net will do the rest. The full sun stroke suit as shown in movies and TV is not necessary. If you must, then be carful and ventilate the suit and watch how much burlap and junk you put on it. Leave off the canvas front and use elbow and knee pads for crawling. If you crawled that far, then you need to learn route selection.

One last thing, for those of you who asked about the 1950 weapons cntainer, we use them every class for ---- jumping the M24s out of the airplane while in fright and then leaveing them on the DZ for turn in by the DZ party. They fit with the adjustable buttplate completely closed. That is the M24, not most civilian rifles.

Oh well, have fun guys and hold hard!

Rick <RBowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 22:18:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.47)


Thank you, thank you Rick.
HK
HK <HenryK@marvineng.com>
LA, CA, USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 23:21:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.165.39.19)
Max Houser, ref 168 equivalent hunting loads:

Sierra makes a 165 gr Game King that others on this discussion group firmly recommended to me when I asked a question similar to yours. If you have access to reloading equipment, why not make up some Mexican Match? Pull the 168 gr bullets from whatever ammo you've got, inspect the necks for a good chamfer (or give the cases a quick spin), then reseat with 165 gr Game Kings to the same overall length. A trip to the range will confirm your zero and grouping.

Terry
Terry Warner <terry.warner@sympatico.ca>
Canada - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 23:23:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.172.163.56)


Regarding the rounds based on the 404 Jefferies, when you start to throw those bullets at that speed "bad things" tend to happen. I have had problems with the Berger 210VLD's breaking up, and I was only shooting them out of a 30-338 at around 2700fps. One thing to consider is most of the custom bullets are made with J-4 jackets, which tend to be very thin. When they start to exceed 3000 fps, give or take, especially with the larger caliber, they start to break up. Also the boot tails get beat all to hell and you start getting fliers. Boots Obermeyer pointed this out in the file on this web site. I shoot with Boots and he is probably one of the best shooters I know. His barrels are great also, when you can get one! I would say try to stick with the Sierra's and any custom VLD's made with Sierra jackets since thay are thicker. I am currently playing with 180gn 7mm JLK's in my 7MAG and will see if they frag like the Berger 210 did. I just don't learn. Semper Fi..Ken
Ken <Target1371@aol.com>
IL, USA - Saturday, September 04, 1999 at 01:36:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.164)
Couple of different things:
For a hunting load similar to the 168 MatchKings use the Hornady 168 A-Max gives IDENTICAL performance in MY 700VS as the 168 MK's and no real noticable change in the POI!
What electronic/holo/fiberoptic sights do you'all use on your AR?? What type of mount i.e. carry handle, in front of the carry handle, etc. do you use with the above sight?? This would be "primarily" a CQB type sight maybe out to 100-200yds.

Sarge

Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Saturday, September 04, 1999 at 02:52:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.245.243.155)


RE: Dot Sights on AR-15 CQB guns...

Brownell's carries a "CQB Scope Mount" by Mark Brown. Catalog # 133-101-015. Page 279 of Catalog 51. Price is $85.

It requires machining of the upper receiver (removal of the carrying handle just forward of the rear sight) for installation.

It places an Aimpoint Comp or a Tasco PDP-4 in the proper position so that the dot is right wear it needs to be, on top of the front sight.

If you don't want to do that, C-More Systems makes a C-more sight that mounts forward of the Carrying Handle and puts the dot there also.

Later,

Bruce
Bruce Braxton <Braxton1@aol.com>
College Park P.D., GA, USA - Saturday, September 04, 1999 at 08:17:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.57)


Bad mouthing me while I was gone Huh??

Asnwer a couple of questions which people had. Bruce. you mentioned your AR using a 75 grainer to reach out up to 400 yards. BUt have you tried to extend that range out to 600 to 900. HIts at that range are then purely speculative. Ill take a 168 grainer in a 308 over a 223 any day for the long shots. Learned that lesson all too quickly several weeks ago.

Gary Fowler, Want to extend your learning for your police sniper. Take a couple course from Storm Mountain Training Center. At www.stormmoutain.com,. They have all the courses your little heart desires.

Last final question about the Accuracy International AICS. That chassis systems seems pretty good, but does anyone have any real pratical experience with it and does anyone here feel that the price is justified. I was thinking about buying one to put another tac rifle together, but am having trouble trying to justify spending the bucks for that stock. But if you feel it si worth the$$$$ then maybe Ill consider it even more.

Thanks everyone.

al o.

Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Back home here in my Wife's Loving arms in , Ohio, USA - Saturday, September 04, 1999 at 13:33:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.144.4.76)


Sarge,

Heres the reply received from a Hornady Technical rep. on the A-Max'es for hunting applications:

"They were designed as a target bullet, they might expand too rapidly."

I'll dig deeper........

Chao!

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Saturday, September 04, 1999 at 14:27:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.191)


I am about to purchase my first .308. I have been looking at both the Robar SR-60 and the TBA M40A2, both with Leopold Mark 4 M3 with mil-dot. The SR-60 costs $570 more than the TBA A2. Additionally the Robar does not have the adjustable comb like the TBA A2. Is the SR-60 that much better? Should I be aware of any differences? ANY advice would be much appreciated. Thanks, Dan
Dan <djnolan@mindspring.com>
Macon, GA, USA - Saturday, September 04, 1999 at 17:43:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.86.4.34)
If you are crushing threads on your dies, the trick your uncle didn't tell you is: Put a shotgun pellet under the screw. The screw will bottom on it and force it into the threads. No ganked threads, holds better.

Weren't Weatherby Vanguards Howa actions ? Sounds like a good idea to use one. As it is a Mauser 98/Win. M70 derivative, do any of the soup up parts of that ilk work on Howas ?

Thank you, T50, Steve, and Pythagoras. I have ruined a few pieces of aluminum, and by God, all is well. Hey, you know you can use this nonsense in the horizontal axis, too. Next time I'm at the range, I plan to center the reticle's windage and run it all but 3 minutes from the top. I'll shoot a group, and see if I can't violate a gunsmith's base (Warne) to allow me to mount the scope with as close to mechanical zero as I can. (way too much free time. Using a mill is a beautiful thing. No way could I talk a smith into doing this without paying a fortune.)
Jim <surfbeat@hotmail.com>
PDX, Or., USA - Saturday, September 04, 1999 at 19:06:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.220.131.84)


I agree on the 600 to 900 yard problems with AR/223 bullets.

But, in L.E., there is a limit on the ranges likely encountered. The average for the police sniper is somewhere around 80 yards (and no, I did not forget to put in an extra Zero...:-) )

I have been told that the "World Record" among L.E. Snipers is somewhere in the vicinity of 425 yards.

L.E. rifle work is a different animal. The military sniper depends on stealth to get in to his target, and if he can't get close, there may be a 800 yard shot. If a L.E. Sniper gets called out, the bad guy probably knows that the cops are there. He will have 15 cruisers and a SWAT Van parked in his front yard.

And, since the goal of the LE Sniper is to STOP the perp immediately, a body shot won't cut it. Head shots are almost mandatory, so it behooves the shooter to get as close as possible.

For my use, the AR is proving to be quite worthwhile.

(With my luck, the next call-out will require one of those 900 yard shots....KNOCK ON WOOD!)

Later,

Bruce
Bruce Braxton <braxton1@aol.com>
College Park P.D., GA, USA - Saturday, September 04, 1999 at 22:14:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.197)


Good day, collegues.

Perhaps you will excuse me for my poor english.

I have heard, that someone accused SVD rifle of being inaccurate. Someone very emotionaly, even as i note, unproffesionaly emotionaly, cry that "dont buy a Dragunov unless you want to be laughed at by your serious sniping buddys". Serious snipers... Or even "buddys". Stop that histeric. I am tolerant about any oppinion of all "buddys". But my honour as a proffesional dictate me to tell some words about that weapon, for unprejudiced audithory.

As you perhaps guessed, I am Russian, and know about this rifle much more than some "buddys", "fellows" and "guys".

I can tell you officialy that: SVD has accuracy about 0,9 MOA. That is proven in practice. That accuracy is measured on standard sniper-grade ammo, so called "Snajperskie". Some anecdotical tales of 3, 4, 5 MOA is nothing more than anecdotical tales. Probably they have measured your shotgun?

The problem, I guess is a lack of quality SVD ammo in US. I don't know what "Norma" is, but if they achieved such 3 MOA on that ammo, either they are paralitics, either "Norma" produces trash. May be both options are right?

I don't recommend, however, to buy SVD. And that's why:
1. No quality, fresh, specially designed ammo for it on US market;
2. SVD is intended for proffessional use only - if you are beginner or intermediate sniper you can encounter some problems.
There is a lot of other rifles in US, so you have many choices.

And last. Remember: underestimation of enemy is a quickest way home. In the "eternity box". We are enemies. So underestimate us, until you meet me some gray morning on the field. Or meet my bullet.

Thanks for attention.

S(I) Paskz <normadon@respublica.fr>
Somewheretown, Russia - Saturday, September 04, 1999 at 23:59:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.193.193.97)


Paskz - Welcome to our corner of my gun is better than yours! :) That is a problem here and WE ALL indulge. I will recommend to the shooters here not to buy an SVD due to poor quality ammo and the fact that Russia does NOT export their new weapons. Or atleast we don't see them. I have fired the SVD extensively and we teach the weapon on our course (know your potential enemies' weapon). Since a large portion of the world is equiped with old "Soviet" equipment we teach it. I have found that it is difficult to shoot the scope and to range with it at the longer ranges. I have had problems with barrel whip with it and since the barrel is so thin have had problems with barrel droop. Can you help me with these problem and how you get around them? Thank you and again welcome!

Bruce - No you don't want to have to make that 900 yard shot in the LE arena! A miss on Perp and hit on innocent would be a career ender! But it is fun to wish isn't it. On the use of the 5.56 for your use, I have tried to get a number of LEAs to go that way due to the flatter trajectory and higher velocity. It allows a much faster follow on shot and lowers the signature of the rifle. This helps in the NEWS agency reports. "Sounded like a gawd dang cannon when that thar cop fired!" Besides, you can tell it is Mattel, it's swell! :)

Al - We shoot them in the course as we do the SVD since it is basically the L96A1, which is what we have. None of us like the feel nor the accuracy we have gotten from the weapon. NOW, that said, ours is one of the first models and they may have changed some things. But it looks the same and I do not like the feel of the weapon. I wouldn't own one, but then Reed Knight bought one at the Shot Show! Go figure!

Ken - Take it you have watched the smoke trail and mid range powder puff too. I have seen some real hummers on paper turn to lead dust half way to the target.

Got to go guys, have fun and hold hard!

Rick <RBowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 00:32:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.41)


For any of the M14 gunsmiths out there who work on Palma/1,000 Yard Competition M14/M1A rifles: my rear sight is up 50 clicks, half-minute hood down, zeroed for 1,000 yards (43 minutes, hood down for 900; 37 for 800). How many thousandths do I ask my gunsmith to mill off the front blade to have the sight at only 4 or five minutes from the bottom for 200 yards? 50 up is really high and is doing nothing for my spot weld (I'm having to raise my cheek/eye to shoot, and would like it down lower, but still be able to shoot the rifle across-the-course when I don't have the scope mounted). Load is LC GI cases, 175 Moly Match Kings, 43.2 IMR 4064, WLR primed. Thanks.
Dave Liwanag <liwanag@mindspring.com>
Fairfax, Virginia, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 02:44:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 165.247.69.167)
Paskz, the SVD-dudeski,

By all means fill us in on the latest Dragunov lore from the motherland, we try to absorb and welcome all knowledge of sniping here like Bowcher said.

I shot a Chinese Draganov with matchski ammo for a Dope Bag review in The American Rifleman a few years back. But then, you are probably not familiar with the NRA Technical staff evaluations are you?
summation: Neat - expensive - toy, but yes it will probably do the job just fine in "skilled hands" out to 500 Meters. Even on Area 51 prairie dogs! (Still L.M.A.O. - SARGE!)

Give me a scoped Moisen-Nagant any day over one of the extended cab AK's. You have probably also shot them too pretty extensively I'll venture......

Hexa, Do you have anything to add?

FYI An out of the box Remington 700 bolt action 7.62x51mm(the preferred design here in USA) will generally average .600 to .900 MOA in the hands of us sloppy beginning shooters with good factory ammo.

Chao!

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 03:36:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.54)


Pazk:

We in the US are subjected to a lot of conflicting information on the performance of the SVD. One published report came out of Iraq, where several capured SVDs were tested for accuracy and found to be inaccurate and came with log books from the factory that were interpreted as indicating that Soviet accuracy standard were not rigorous. The type of ammunition on hand for the testers to use was not stated, but given the Iraqis generaly poor organization and logistics in that operation, it would not suprise me if they issued them with non-sniper grade ammunition, probably delinked PKM ball ammo. Also, the people who wrote the artical may not have known how to interpret the documentation found with the rifles. This is a common problem with media types here.

However, in a very recent issue of Tactical Shooter magazine, a Russian SVD was tested in detail with the proper Russian sniper ammunition and it proved to be a very accurate (< 1 MOA) rifle, more than accurate enough to fulfill the requirements called for by Russian doctrine and not at all bad by western standards, either. It was certainly accurate enough to keep me worried at any reasonable range. They were especialy impressed with the clarity and light transmission efficiency of the scope.

The "sporter" SVD I fired several weeks ago was owned by an individual who knew nothing about the rifle or its scope who let me fire 10 rounds of some Russian-made 200 grain softpoint hunting loads. It shot poorly with that ammo, but then I know from experience that the hunting ammo that Russian makes for export is usualy not very good. I have some Russian-made military ball ammunition that seems to be very accurate in my M38 Mosin-Nagant carbines. I would like to work with an SVD in detail at some point, as this is a cartrige I am already set up to reload for.

Norma ammunition is made in Sweeden and is nominaly of very good quality, but is not intended for use in SVDs.

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Colatown, SC, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 04:15:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.213.175.139)


Dave Liwanag:

Its too late for me to crunch all the numbers for you, but .008" reduction in front sight heigth equals a 1 MOA shift in POI, per Kuhnhausen.

-Tom

Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Colatown, SC, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 04:25:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.213.175.139)


Varget proves to be non-meter friendly!

I attempted to put together my first handloads using Varget tonight, but the dropping of the powder proved to be something of a disaster. I have both an elderly Lyman 48 measure and a late-model Bonanza, and both dropped 43.5gr of Varget with a .3-.4 gr. variance from charge to charge. Not good in my book. I ended up weighing and tricking out 50 loads. I had forgotten just how big a pain in the ass that is. Its been a while since I have used extruded powder but it seems to me that I used to could drop IMR 4895 a lot more consistanly than this, and of course the Lyman 48 is a great ball powder measure.

Sooo, now what? do I start shooping for another measure, or buy one of those super-duper automated scale units like an Autoscale (and who sells that thing now, anyway?).

BTW got in my Lapua brass yesterday. That stuff is *sooo* nice to work with... :)

Thanks:

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Colatown, SC, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 04:34:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.213.175.139)


Gooch;

in reading the last issue of Minute of Angle you talked about the
Milldot Master. i did not see any place to obtain one.
Could you e-mail where to get one. Thanks

All:

I have enjoyed the site greatly and have found alot of good info.

Does anyone have any info on (night force or light force lighted
reticle scopes) i beleive they are out of Kent Wa.

so long for now, gary
g fowler <tucowgrl@cyberhighway.net>
rupert, id, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 05:45:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.161.38.152)


Tom,

Bet its your powder measures....... My RCBS (Old Green is twenty five or thirty years old and still works fine) with Varget and lots of other extruded powders over the years(LARGE amounts of H-1000 as of late) and throws charges at (+ or - .01 gr) when set up correctly and cycled the same way. Maybe you could have the powder drum Black-T or Robar coated to resolve the problem.

I still individually weigh each charge and trickle up to the exact amount desired, I can't get into that "have to handload FAST" school. I've seen too much slop ammo, busted guns, and faces! from the "Mr McFeeley" school of loading. Hurry-Hurry-Hurry

When you finish handloading for a SVD or Moisen-Nagant please keep us up to date. The data needs to be published for all those fine old rifles floating around out there. SVD's Too!

I thought the article in August'99 T-S just said a lot of nothing regarding the rifles accuracy capabilities, (Hugos article in the May T-S issue addressed the SVD far better) but maybe I just want to see empirical testing: like 5 five shot groups at 100 and 200 yards with chrono data, and not a couple three shot groups to attempt a feeble validation............

If you're really gonna sell it (The SVD system)to me, prove it, and please don't try the PT Barnum approach of "Theres a Sucker Born Every Minute"

Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 12:37:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.204)


Dudes,

I'm not Sniping at/or Flaming "Colatown Tom" or Paskz (The Russian Dudeski),

I just want to see ACCURATE information posted before somebody gets burned buying hyped crap or worse, wore out hyped crap and spending $$$ on reloading equipment and periperals in an attempt to make a silk purse out of Al's ear [Oooops! :-)], I mean a Sheeps ear.

It all works if it connects with the target, regardless of Nationalism and techological pride right?

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG WET CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 13:25:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.200.33)


Good day, collegues.

Again i must excuse for my rural english. And I can add to this that I am absolutely unfamiliar with abreviations, used in your country. So to me NRA is perhaps what for you TETZ-30 is. Sorry again, don't argument such way, it's is simply beyond our possibilities to understand is it bad or good, that some NRA, or some TETZ-30, or some prairie dogs.. Sorry again, imagine the fact that not all people must be familiar with US circumstances.

I am very glad, that little information I posted here was accepted, and leaded to normal discussion. So, before that nobody has told about sub-1-MOA SVD. I like clarity - it was strange to hear from a proffesional, may be more proffesional that i am myself, so unprofessional tales about how to make SVD from SKS. Or that SVD is a modification of AK. That is like to say, that all we use is a modification of Chinese Black Powder Canon. Is'n it?

Again, I say, SVD is not the most accurate, or most comfortable, or most - anything you wish.. That is foolish to say so on every model we and you use. I must definitely say - SVD is a top weapon in very special category. I like SVD, but to me that is to know every imperfections of that weapon, too. You also know imperfections of all your rifles, from Remington 700 to PSG-1 and R93 - that is a part of sniper skill.

Now to the modifications and improvements. Of course we make some improvements. The problem, of which i have heard here, has a solution.

About counterstand SVD - Mosin rifle. I use a Mosin rifle modification, called SV-5. It is a long story to tell.. And i will not do that. I like Mosin too, because of excelent accuracy. But SV-5 is not usefull in dinamical battle - that is sniper rifle for "hunting" - a long, positional campaign.

So, again - i do not recommend to buy it in US. Probably you can buy only a old one, second hand from some underdeveloped Allakh warior, with sand in gas mechanism and so. I have heard that the price for SVD is in US abnormal. I can tell you a deepest (yet unusable for US) secret - i can buy, for example an NEW, COMPLETE, with scope, mount, case, bag, bayonette knife, 4 mag, all in factory packing SVD for $170. That's not because lack of quallity, that is because of great quantity. So if i had to buy it for $1000+ i will be very angry.

Thank you for attention.

P.S. TETZ-30, mentioned above, for example, stand for Boiler Station Nr. 30, one of the city boiler. That is not a secret service ;)
S(I) Paskz <normadon@respublica.fr>
Somewheretown, Russia - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 14:03:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.193.193.97)


PeteR:

Page 54 of the September TS shows 2 3/4 inch group fired using Soviet 152gr. BT sniping ammunition at 300 yards. I'm not trying to sell the SVD, as the only one I have ever shot didnt shoot very well with the substandard ammunition available. I bought a 700PSS for a bit less money (and a bit less accuracy, at first :) The author, a Mr. Fortier, reports 1 MOA accuracy with Sellier & Bellot 180gr. FMJ as well.

I for one never sell the Russians short on technical matters. As Paskz's post implies, the Russians have a funny way of getting what they want acomplished, acomplished. Just becasue every AK-74 is not a sub MOA weapon system dosent mean they *cant* buld one. All they have to do is decide that it needs to be done and if it is at all within their technical grasp, it usualy happens. How many 14 year-old space stations have *we* kept flying?

I will be happy to report results with loading 7.62x54R in Lapua brass, but it will be for M38 Mosin based "scout" rifles and not the SVD. I dont see one of those in my immediate future.

As for the measure problem...I have an old RCBS measure stuck back somewhere. I suppose I'll try that. If that wont get it, I guess I'll buy a Redding or <shudder> an Autoscale. :)

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Colatown, SC, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 14:05:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.213.175.136)


Paskz,

By all means use up some computer bytes and fill us in on the SV-5 system. To use a movie euphamism "Feed Us the info!" You're right about Chinese cannons, they are most humble ancestors to all our favorite toys huh?
Your local options and access to your domestic matchski quality ammo could be a real benefit to all of us here in the USA. Could you do an accuracy test (inch or metric center to center spreads)with various ammos at 100 and 200 Meters and post it here. That would be way cool!

Tom,
Thats exactly what I mean by a single group isn't representative.

Look at the lead photo for this particular article:
http://www.snipercountry.com/WhiteFeather.htm.

The five shot group shown is .344" c.t.c. at 100 yards fired in about 45 seconds from start to finish of the string. Through a (then)out of the box stock Remington 700 Police DM.

Will my rifle do that each and every time, NOPE!
Can I do that kind of shooting on demand? NOPE!
But damn it sure does get your attention doesn't it? ;-)

Chao!

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG WETTER YET CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 14:51:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.46)


I am looking for a Receiver and or Barrel for a H&K MSG90 or PSG1 if anone knows where I can get one or has any info on them please E-mail me.

Thanks
Eric <BadAssMstg@Hotmail.com>
USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 15:45:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 171.214.46.36)


Paskz;
Carefull there buddy your broken English is slipping,or maybe you were just lucky in that one paragraph.

Bruce E. <BGENLVTEX@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 17:04:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.195.34)


Hi all,
Firearms have been receiving some very negative media attention, even here in Germany the media has been very aware of the recent and devastating use of firearms in crimes commited against humanity. I personally find this sort of media attention very disturbing, I as a British National, can clearly recall what happened in the U.K. after Mr Hamilton commited his act of terror in the Town of Dunbliane in Scotland, my memory even streches back as far as the criminal act performed by Mr Ryan in Hungerford. These acts of bloodymindeness forced the British Government to pass laws banning the possesion of Privately owned firearms. This didnt help Miss Jill Dando (R.I.P.) and others who have fallen victim to armed thugs since this law was passed. I now live in Germany, not to escape the English laws on firearms but because after ten years military service I just couldnt and did'nt want to start again in the land of my birth that now seemed so strange to me. I own thirteen firearms, from a .22 walther PPK to a pumpgun, and I shoot them regular either on the ranges or whilst out Hunting.

Who can provide me with some constructive advice on the why's and why not's of the Savage Tactical, in .308 win with a Schmidt & Bender Sniperscope?

My best regards to you all.
Tony.
Tony in Bavaria <toemag@hotmail.com>
Munich, Bavaria, Germany - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 17:16:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.158.32.39)


IM INTERSTED IN BEING A SNIPER
DUSTIN CHEVALIER <DCHEVSFOST@AOL.COM>
FORT WAYNE, IN, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 17:30:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.52)
Paskz - 170.00, be on the next plane for our supply personnel. You do not wish to know what we pay for those suckers! Again, we enjoy the passing of info here and would like to hear your solutions. The Mosin is a most respected rifle and we respect the SVD. Especially the ability to use the Metascope for IR detection without using an active source a the shooters' position. I find the scope uncomfortable to use and has accurate ranging problems past 500, would like to hear your methods for overcoming this problem. Liked the TETZ-30 analogy. It could be Secret Service! :)

"Hold hard guys, or it will be a long night!" Got to go.

Rick <RBowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 18:44:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.152)


Good day, collegues.

>By all means use up some computer bytes and fill us in on the SV-5 system.

With great gladness. Although this weapon is very old, it is less known even as SKS. About it existence and qualities not every our sniper knows. My searchings over inet has yielded no results. There is nothing mistical or secret, however, in this rifle. Simpy that is our best western-style rifle.

That is sniper modification of well known Mosin rifle, among russians well-known as "threeliner". As a sniper modification it was developed in 1937. As a sniper modification it has extended and very high-quality barrel, highly custommized stock, with opening for big finger. It weight is about 6,5 Kg. It has detachable magazine for 5 rounds, and fires 7,62 "threeliner" ammo.

In a well known book, wroten by Maj. John Plaster he describes a sniper modification of Mosin with such data:
Cartridge: 7,62x54 Rimmed
Weight: 5,1 Kg
Overall lenght: 122 cm
Barrel lenght: 72,6 cm
Rifling: 4 grooves, 1:10 rt-hand twist
Capacity: 5 rounds, fixed mag
Max rate of fire: 10 RPM
Aimed rate of fire: 3-5 RPM
Scope types: 3,5 PU or 4 PE
Reticle type: Adjustable post

This data is probably for somethig other than SV-5. As i told, it has detachable mag, much heavier, and perhaps longer. On our SV-5 we use excellent soviet 6x optics, german-style reticle. The optics for our rifles was manufactured in 1943, excellently bright and crisp image. On a humorous picture of vietnamese, given in the book we can see something other than SV-5.

I think that SV-5 were produced only at war time, I have not seen any rifles dated later 1945, and any earlier than 1942.

Personal experiences. That is very havy, good balanced and ultra-precise weapon. It is extremely reliable, has superior stock. Accuracy we have not measured, but probably not worse than 0,5 MOA, I think - that is real sniper rifle.

Of course, there is some incomfort in using it. First- it is extremely heavy and long. Second - the blast sound exceeds any other competitors. But that is my choice for accuracy and reliability.

>Could you do an accuracy test..

About mesurements. As i told SVD, when properly used with proper ammo gives 0,9 MOA. If i will have a scaner, i will demonstrate that with great gladness.

Realy, problem with measurement of accuracy of weapon - mainly measurement of quality of the rounds.

>http://www.snipercountry.com/WhiteFeather.htm

Not pointed to me, but i was impressed :) One thing is realy good in US - the freedom for having firearms. Don't loose that - that will be great pity.
S(I) Paskz <normadon@respublica.fr>
Somewheretown, Russia - Sunday, September 05, 1999 at 19:15:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.193.193.97)


Paskz or whatever.

Your statement that we are enemies just verifies my feelings about your countries political aspirations over the last 10 years or so. While many people in this country would believe the theory that Russia/the former USSR is happy to be a 2nd rate political force, many of us retired and active military types don't beleive that for a secondski. Some of us know the history of your country. While our media may portray this country like a bunch of idiots, don't take this for gospel (truth). Right now I don't think your country could win a war against the Arkansas National Guard (State Militia)! By the way, how are you feeding your Army these days? I hear your enlisted men are getting good at growing vegetables.

Believe me Ivan when I say that many USMC and Army snipers still train for the day when they will get a chance to plant a few commies. And also be aware that although in past conflicts where US snipers were behind the power curve this is no longer the case. Although we may not be undefeatable I'll take American know how over what ever your rag tag military can shit any day. You claim that the Dragunov is a fine sniper rifle. You just keep on believing that and remember that our M40A1's and M24's are only accurate to about 500 or 600 yards or so. So snuggle up to about 600 meters or so and get ready to come face to face with 175 grains of screaming american technology.

Remember, Losers talk about thier "best", winners go home and fuck the prom queen. This aint a game.

Kent Gooch
USMC Scout-Sniper

Gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
Elk Garden, WV, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 00:12:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.148)


Does any one have any preliminary loading data for the .300 Remington Ultra mag. I am starting load developement and would like to hear from others who have started work on this new cartrige.

Gary H.
Gary H. <hatherly@perceptionet.com>
USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 02:26:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.69.199.148)


I have a Brookfield mount experimenting with Leopold and MWG rings on a Leopold M3LR but the standard rings seem high... are there any quality mounts that are lower? Any ideas or experience? Thanks in advance

Jeff in Canada

Jeff W <blackhawk@mb.sympatico.ca>
MB, Canada - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 03:11:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.200.56.222)


Can the Remington 700 pss dm 's magazine be replaced or swapped out with H&S precisions's magazine kit? Is this a good idea ?

keep your powder dry!

jack
jack <beungood@aol..com>
braintree, mass, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 07:28:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.187)


RE: Inaccurate Powder Measures

According to G. David Tubb (of NRA Highpower fame), the accuracy of a handload is more dependent on the mechanical variations of the individual round (concentricity of the bullet, jacket, bullet-to-rifling, etc.) than on the charge-to-charge consistency of the powder weight.

I believe that he wrote in one article that, in the 40 to 45 grain range, there has to be almost a full grain of variation for the shooter to notice anything.

I have yet to try this and throw my trickler into the river (GAWD!!! I want to!!!), so I cannot speak from personal experience.

Later,

Bruce
Bruce Braxton <Braxton1@aol.com>
College Park P.D., GA, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 08:40:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.54)


Gooch: I also saw the comment about being "enemies".However, taken in context with the rest of Paskz's postings I chalked it up to nothing more than misuse of the English language; something that he has allready appologized for.

Afterall, his posts aren't adversarial by their nature or in tone.Perhaps, he was refering to you Americans as "past enemies".I would be inclined to believe if he felt annimosity towards Americans then he wouldn't be bothered to post or contribute here on this predominently "American" web site.See my point?

As far as I'm concered, if the guy is legitimate and is who he says he is, then cut the guy a little slack.By the number of responses to his posts, I'd say the man has injected some much needed new blood and topics of discussion on this Roster that seems to be getting more repetitious as time goes on.

By the way, with your obvious biases towards Russians aside, It's not just the commies anymore.Just take a look around.The world is a much more unstable and dangerous place than it was before the break up of the Soviet Union.

Hell, with the way things are goin' lately, the US military has to be prepared to take on anyone at anytime.I'm sure that doesn't leave your military commanders with a real warm and fuzzy feeling, now does it?

Also, I'm completely jealous of you.Are you trying to tell all of us you had the prom queen all to yourself? Shit, at my high scool prom, I had to stand in line and take a number for my turn.

You're right, this ain't no game...

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 11:31:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.82.19)


Good day, collegues.

About suplies. I can you tell more of the current prices, of which our army gets weapon:

AKM-U (Shortened Close-combat assault rifle) Used by stormtroopers and militia $120
Macarov (Semiautomatic Pistol) Used by militia and officers $70
So, as you see SVD is most expensive, and costs $170. It is shipped in quantites of no less then one package, that is 6 systems (rifle, scope, 5 mags, maintain tools and materials, bayonette, carying bag for spare mags, scope and tools, carying strip).

Is US army getting arms for ordinary prices, provided by manufacturers? That's very impressive, I think many people just go have thick fat on army supplies.

When we got some books, dedicated to US army snipers we wonder how much one sniper costs in US. That's simply safes on two legs - binoculars for XXXX, rifle for ZZZZ, scope for YYYY.. Plus shoes, rangefinders, clothing.. As i understand that, with the spotter is about $10.000? Our sniper is equipped on a sum circa $400. Will I perform 10.000/400=25 times worser? Not sure :)

Often is heard critics on Soviet Sniper School. But american, or european doctrine is also not free from disadvantages.

Our doctrine is based on "Industrionalism". What that mean? Sniper is complimentary unit, not a God of War, even in infantry. They are good addition, but not essential one. Look, no war was won or lost because of snipers! No one city freed or occupated! I am not deminshing the role of sniper, a am one of them, but I know my limitation - I will not decide the fate of World. If so, snipers must be mass-employed, must cover actions, taken by infantry first of all. Soviet doctrine not exclude special and separate operations, but that is special case.

That is simple arithmetics, as I mentioned above. I think the sniper doctrine of US was developed in 50's-60's - when a countersniper techniques was not so advanced, and easy aplicable. Now, more than in 50's-60's the RPG, minethrowers, rocket artilery and other thingies are used. You perhaps imagine how works automatic machine-gun style rocketthhrower? So the key of sniper's advantage is slightly lost the significense - now, for example, if there is a susspection, that in that bush sits sniper, troopers simply burst with that hell machine - and 30 m around will be desert. Not this bush, than next.

An illustration to that is current war in Dagestan. Islamists sent big force, well-equiped mercenaries with guarding fanatics in Dagestan Mountains. Most significant advantage against Federals they have in snipers. I have seen there PSG-1 and Barret's, SVD and SV-94.. They was acting in Western style. And what happened? Shit happened. Bloodbath. Our forces used heavy artillery, rocket artilery and air forces, even 3D-explosive bombs - and all that high-cost terrorist army is slaughtered to pieces, not bigger than hamburger. Our snipers acted too, and have many succeses in the war with such a strong (tacticaly) enemy.

Again I say, I do not deminish your perfect school of snipership. I do not deminish snipership, as it is my profession. But on the place of US instructors - there will be better to integrate some principles of our sniper tactics. We, counterside are ver I think, in case of war, all that Sacred Priciples will go to hell, and yours, and ours. Sniper is not a God, he is not a Artist - he is at work.
S(I) Paskz <normadon@respublica.fr>
Russia - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 12:33:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.193.193.97)


Good day, Kent Gooch

>Your statement that we are enemies just verifies my feelings

Perhaps we are friends? Then point our common enemy. Probably vegetarians, nudists or The Evil Association of Rabbit Holders, I think. We will not discuss the politics in that conference, you know what I mean.

>While our media may portray this country like a bunch of idiots, don't take this for gospel (truth)

By propoganding such things your media, first of all, is based on the hypotetic statement that listeners are idiots. Why? Why are americans satisfied with lies about not only Russia, but of World itself? And even lies about US? Is it comfortable? Probably, but can cause a lot of problems in future. "Hooray-patriotic coated, dont wash in blood". However I think military personel knows the price of words.

>Right now I don't think your country could win a war against the Arkansas National Guard (State Militia)!

Powerfull interstellar stormtroopers from Arkansas has taken Jupiter and surrounded Saturn. What kind of battles and victories are on the account of this secret Lord Of Universe?

>I hear your enlisted men are getting good at growing vegetables.

Yes, that's mainly true. It states that our soldiers are expirienced agrivulturists, too. What bad of it, another advantage. Smile.

Yes, our army machine is underpowered. Yes our leaders, Moscow leaders I mean are a bunch not of idiots, but traitors and thiefes. But there is many layers of picture, that common people don't know about our country. And that's makes me happy. Look, when the Iron Wall fall, US reputation in our eyes are much more deminshed then our reputation in yours. Lets illustrate: particulary men in US always thinked about Russia, that we drink a gallon of Wodka, there is a lot of snow, that bears are living on the Red Square, and every citizen is KGBist. Nice picture, now changed: Wodka, bears and snow remains still, KGB replaced with mafia. Aha.. Our army.. That's a special case: in uncle Tom's cabins, deep in the Taiga [drinking Wodka, kissing bears, don't forget] we sit near fire in the humorous "shapka-ushanka" with some strange grandmother rifles and guarding Nuclear Bomb #1. Then comes a super man from California, a retired.. for example army-electric and kicks our pitty asses. World saved, press Enter. Nice movie, but somewhere I have seen it many times. Some people, visted our country were encouraged of what they seen. We hide our bears. But we drinked with them wodka - tradition must live.

What we have seen in America? That you see every day. We do not spend our obscured money for dipicting movies about US. But what we have seen real? Don't want even to say anything - but we are not afraid of US, even Arkansas militia. But not underestimating US army, and USMC, of course.

>I'll take American know how over what ever your rag tag military can >shit any day.

Incorrect.

>You just keep on believing that and remember that our M40A1's and >M24's are only accurate to about 500 or 600 yards or
>so.

We are very patient and like to get new knowledge.

>to come face to face with 175 grains of screaming american >technology.

That's pitty. Technology, don't scream! Smile, big and kind smile. We are not underestimating our opponents. We carefully examine your forces and skills, weapons and tactics.

>Remember, Losers talk about thier "best", winners go home and fuck the prom queen.

Calm down, there is nothing happened yet. Falsestart. So there is no Loosers or Winners. Although there is good practice to "fuck the prom queen", in training purposes.
S(I) Paskz <normadon@respublica.fr>
Russia - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 12:44:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.193.200.131)


HooRaaaaaa!Gooch.
God Damn Right brother.
Don <tdfarmer@concentric.net>
USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 12:47:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.83.80.75)
Good day, Jeff Babineau.

>I also saw the comment about being "enemies".However, taken in
>context with the rest of Paskz's postings I chalked it up to nothing
>more than misuse of the English language; something that he has
>allready appologized for.

Thank you. By stating that we are enemies now, I mean that we can be enemies tommorow. Right tommorow, or at tuesday. Now we are indirect enemies - that mean in political terms, that we have different approaches to the future of World. Too different to say, that we come to compromise.

People are waiting for the war - it is itself the begining of war.

So, about..

>Just take a look around.The world is a much more unstable and dangerous place than it was before the break up of the Soviet Union.

Of course, it is so. That's a simple arithmetics: world was balanced and counterbalanced. When US wants to kick Zanzibar, we say "Don't touch the marvellous Zanzibar, our friend and democratic socialist country". When SU wants to kick Bebezia, US says "The Democratic Bebezia is our best friend, and we don't allow russians to touch the democracy". It was of course, anyway, nice words, but they worked - there was no possibility of generalization of war. Now there exist no counterbalance - and what we can see: lies about democracy, lies about true aims of war, unstabillity and refugees; and more refugees, saving their lifes from the saving operations... I believe in such thing: Americans simply don't know what to do, when they are alone, just like kids. Instead of living in peace in their own country, healing US from many disease the US have they want to explore their kicking possibilities, covering them with very primitive banners, like "humanitarian help", "defend of democracy" and so on. They simply don't know what to do with the Globe.

Personally I am not red-eyed fanatic, I was grown in the middle of Europe, and therefore knew that americans are not animals, even before reforms in Soviet Union. And now I have friends in US, and contact with Americans, living here.

But that does not mean, that I will do nothing i can, when the trouble come.

Remember, from what the disscussion start? From SVD. So, count me as a friend of US, as I cleared to audithory, that that is sniper weapon, not a shotgun, as I have heard many think. A uncommon kind of friend, of course.

S(I) Paskz <normadon@respublica.fr>
Russia - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 13:33:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.193.193.97)


Damn Gooch, go girl. Prom Queen, ours was so ugly she looked like a Drag Queen. Al O. wouldn't have even taken a sniff.

Red Dawn, Wolverines, my my, could be an interesting. I want to play!!!!!

Well, waterproof gear smell has not abated! Laid some of it in the sun, glue melted, trashed.

Anyone need a roommate for Carlos II? I am working real hard to get the time off, not looking good but I am trying. Will have to take out a loan to go, have to have two crowns put on the first of the year, $1200 out of pocket. Didn't George Washington have wooden teeth?
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 14:14:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.66)


Tony in Bavaria- The acts you refer to didn't force the British government to do anything. They only gave them an excuse to justify their actions to the British subjects.

another Pat
another Pat <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 15:00:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)


Boltster,

I'll fix the teeth with some J-B weld when ya get up here OKAY! Just got fresh stocks of duct tape and BRAND NEW (unrusted!) black waire too!

Aaaaallll,

THREEEEEEE WEEEEEEEEKKSSS!

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!

Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG MONSOON CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 15:17:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.187)


Hey all...
Move is made, but the house is still all boxes; will be unpacking probably until the next move... ;-) Nice to be able to go out the front or back doors and shoot, though... took my daughter out plinking at 2-liters last night... we'll make her into a marksman before too long.

Gooch:
I understand and appreciate your waryiness(sp?) of our new 'comrade', but I look at it this way... play nice, and see what we can learn from him about their tactics, so we can better know 'the enemy'...

Paskz:
Prevyet! Welcome aboard. Although we were historically advarsaries, and 'may' be again in the future, I'd appreciate hearing all we can from you, to see how the 'other side' does it. Question: What sidearm does a Russian sniper carry when in the field? DO you operate in two-man groups as we do, or do you act alone, or in larger groups? Dosvidanya...

Bolt:
Actually, no, George's teeth weren't wooden, they were made out of cow's teeth.

L8R,

Leslie <lnbright@juno.com>
An itty-bitty place in, TN & VA, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 15:18:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 137.45.10.90)


Jack:

Regarding your question re: replacing Rem. factory detach mag. with the HS kit. I assume you mean replace the entire fp/tg assembly, as well. Will that work? Absolutely. I've done that and am very pleased with the result. It is possible that if you do that, you may need have a little fitting done to the stock. The stock I did it with is an A3 that was already inletted for Rem 700 SA BDL. A little fitting was needed for proper fit.

Anyway, the HS unit is beautifully done and I'm extremely pleased with the way it works. It is stainless steel coated with black teflon, I think.

PeteR:

How as the match? I got the night one coming up this Sat. Did some testing with .308 last Sat. and am loading for the match.

Jeff A.
Jeff A. <d1k2l3@smyrnacable.net>
Laboring on Laborday in, GA, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 15:54:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 139.76.64.4)


Jeff A,

You're not using the .260 Remington? !! :-0 !!

I'm loading my ammo for The Carlos Hathcock Memorial Shoot right now and agin termahraw, but I literally just ran out of Varget, I Got MK 175's, Horney 178NM's, Berger 175's, GM-210's, GM308UP's

BUT NO VARGET!!!!!!!!

NONE!
NADA!
NYET!
NICHT!
:-(

and ALL the local "purveyors of death" are closed. a Totally MOST BOGUS and HEINOUS situation for the Dudester.

Sooooo.... Its back to prepping even more brass, and staring forlornly out the garage door hoping it will start raining cannisters of Varget here in soo-soggy West Virginny.

Boo-Hoo-Hoo

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
SOGGIER YET CITY, By-gAwD, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 17:00:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.31)


Rick,

"It Could be Secret Service?"

Does that mean Paskz KNOWS the identity of the illusive "MASTER SNIPER"? "The imfamous Butcher of Furby"? or the location of Sarges hide?

Speaking of which........................

Sarge,

"It could be Granny?" REALLY - REALLY - LMAO!

Paskz,
I ain't picking on you, just maximizing the use of a REALLY GREAT phrase.

Al,
"It could be Esmeralda" Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

HEEE-HEEE HAA-HAAA HOOO-HOOO
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 17:26:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.31)


SVD: I have shot a little (maybe 50-60 rounds) out of brand new soviet-made SVD:s made in 1980īs with proper Russian sniping ammo designated specifically for use in SVD. Good points: It is light and eays to carry, it is semi-automatic, so you can defend yourself also at short ranges. It is also accurate enough to drop man-sized targets out to 550 meters (probably even farther, but I just tested it so far due to range restrictions). Minuses: A light rifle kicks for a semi-auto still somewhat, brass flies like from AK, so somebody may see it flying. Scope is not up-to-date with 4X24 lenses. The newer version with 6X36 is not as robust, so 4x24 is the better one. Anyways this rifle is a very good rifle for a spotter and/or sniper riding with the armored convoys, where accurate fire out to only 500 meters is needed. It has been noticed that SVD-accuracy varies quite a lot, these are mass-produced rifles where some samples are very good and some are less than spectacular.

Ideology behind SVD: As our new comrade in arms explained, SVD and snipers in general in Russia are used aggressively within regular AK/PKM-equipped platoons. Most of Russian snipers are what we call sharp shooters. They just shoot a little further a little more accurately than what regular Ak-74 quipped troops can do. They are a basic part in an infantry platoon just like the RPG-7 men are. Nothing special really.

A normal (this is only one version) sniper group consists of one SVD-shooter, one RPG-7 shooter and one PKM-shooter. The idea is to use one of these weapons in such a way as to lure more enemies into an ambush. For example the SVD shooter may shoot only one shot the enemyīs formation and when enemy counterattacks with a platoon or two, the PKM-shooter and RPG-7 man ambush the platoon from itīs flanks and kills many more than what is possible with an SVD.-> As you see, this differs very much from the western way of doing things. Still it may cause very many KIAīs, especially among less educated soldiers. In any case the idea is to maximize losses to the enemy and not to screw around with "1-in-100" chances to hit somebody out to 1000 meters with the first shot. And the Russian army has probably got tenfold the number of people armed with SVDīs than any western army has snipers.-> Quality wise they are not up to snuff, but it doesnīt matter if you have enough of better-than-regular soldiers. The ideology is almost opposite to the western way of thinking.

In any case Russian army has always counted on bringing much more equipment and men to the battlefield, even if they are not state-of-the art. The main reason behind this is the fact that in Russia it has never, and it probably never will, matter how many Russian soldiers will die, as long as the objectives are met.-> USA invests in billion dollar stelath bombers because lost soldiers are bad publicity (of course stealth tehcnology makes waging war also easier) but in Russia they would probably buy with the same money 250 T-90īs tanks or 50 pieces Kamov-50 attack helicopters. When body backs donīt count for much, you do not need that much high tech. Instead you buy lots of mediocre tehcnology which can, and very often will, tear apart the tehcnologically more advanced army. Just ask the Germans about this.

SVD vs. Mosin-Nagant. Mosin-Nagant is an accurate rifle but not so much as the newest toys on the market. Still M-S rifles are very robust and can take a beating. I would take an SVD over a Mosin-Nagant. Both are reasonably accurate, but with an SVD you can defend yourself better in case of an emergency.

Anti-sniping activities Russin-style: As was the case in the last conflict between Finland and SU, their military doctrine has always been quite like the US way: Anything that threatens you, you just blow it away, no matter what the cost. Their army can afford to shoot 20 pieces of 155 mm heavy artillery rounds to any spot, that they even suspect of having snipers close by. Problem is that you can not shoot 360 degrees around you all the time. According to our sniper training in Finland, you shoot one or two rounds from the same spot and depending on the situation you move to another place or you leave the whole AO quickly. Precisely because a big army will waste itīs ammo all around. Actually that is a good thing for us, as this will strain the supply routes of the attacking army all the time. -> You can exchange one rifle round to 20 heavy artillery shells and one dead officer. Pretty good deal, I think.

-> SVD is not as accurate as a McBros or H-S tactical rifle but it is not designed to be that. For the price of 1 McBros you can buy 20-30 SVDīs. In the end the winning party is not that clear anymore. I do not like SVD, but I do not disregard it, as it is very usefull tool in itīs niche in the Russian army.

Hexa
Heikki Juhola <juhola@luukku.com>
Helsinki, Finland - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 18:07:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.229.255.16)


Anyone got any experience with the Steyr SSG rifles. I found a couple of these in .308 and .223., 20 inch and 26 inch barrels are available. They even have some kind of Swarksi 10X scopes with the German Post style of reticle. They are new. Scope is a BDC model, and is adjustable to 800 meters. Rings are Steyr.

Price is $1995, scope included. Any comments are welcome.

Thanks,

Bill

Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 19:30:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.200.46)


Get some Gooch! It's fine to be on a freindly basis when everyone is freindly. I thought I was the only one who caught the threat. The Russian government are a bunch of jerkoffs who take advantage of any situation they can and then ask Uncle Sugar for help when they need it. Can you say International Space Station. If you offer a threat, dont be suprised if it's answered. We are not diplomats who will bend over to please. We are American Citizens from "the land of the free and the home of the brave". Take heed.
Dave
Mr. Big <dbiggers@earthlink.net>
Ft. Worth, Texas, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 19:50:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.27.164.13)
To S(I) Paskz,
About a year or so ago, Mr. Gooch was kind enough to point the way to a Russian web page that featured an article about a new Russian Sniper Rifle called the SV-98. I still have a picture of this rifle somewhere on my hard drive, and could post it if needed. Do you have any experience with this rifle?

To any who are interested in info about the 7.62 x 54 R.
Finland M.N. Rifles are some of my favorites. and I have spent some time testing various military and handloads. The quality of the stuff varies widely, but I have some Bulgarian yellow tip stuff that is as good as anything ever put out by Lake City. The bullet is about 183 gr Boat tail, and chrono out at 2625 FPS. with less than 10 fps S.D. It will do MOA out of an old Tikka M-39 that uses brass washers for bedding fit between the action and stock. This same rifle will do .75 MOA with handloads. No magic involved there either, just 174 Gr. Sierra Matchkings (.311) and IMR-4895 in Lapua cases, loaded to 2625 FPS.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 20:19:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.143.1.244)


Guys I need some help with this REAL FAST as I plan on doing SOMETHING about this TOMORROW!!!
Sarge's old eyes are just to the point where he doesn't do to well with open sights! Read he's having trouble hitting the broad side of a barn at a 100 yds with open AR sights! SO he needs to put SOME kind of scope on this thing. Now for the problem! This is a FIXED carry handle A2. I have looked in SGN at all the various types of scope/mount combinations and I just need some help on which way to go. J&G sells a Delta style cheek piece, 3x9x40 rubber armoured Delta style scope and the Leatherwood mount for right at $100. OR They also sell the Chinese knock-off of the Colt 4X for about $40. NOW since I have NO intention of using this rifle for competition, long range shooting or much of anything past 200-300 yds. Help me out with some recommendations here guys HELP!!! Please e-mail I'll get answers quicker that way!!!

Pete - granny hasn't shown her face since then! HOWEVER SOMEBODY laced the range road last week-end with ROOFING NAILS!! I was one of eight I KNOW FOR SURE that lost tires due to punctures, fortunately I was only going 40 mph when mine went BANG and I DO mean BANG - both side walls TOTALLY SEPARATED!!

Gooch - you go boy!!! I spend 20 years of my life protecting our country against those Communist SOB's and they can preach peace til the cows come home! Until they COMPLETELY DESTORY ALL there nuclear capability I DON'T TRUST THEM FOR S--T!!! Some of you'all out there are old enough to remember a little "mobile missle launcher" called CUBA!!

A gentleman philosopher Santana said it best - "Those that do not learn from history are condemed to repeat it!"

Old Southern saying - "Save your Confederate money boys the South WILL rise again!"

Sarge

Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 21:14:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.245.243.66)


PeteR:

Truth is I may (or may not) shoot .308 at the match. It did well last Sat., but it's the first time with it since the "facelift". Got slightly compulsive that night and prepped/started loading for it as well as .260. Will have both ready , but still don't know which to take. Hell, I'm being more wishy-washy than an obsessive-compulsive geriatric with accelerated Alzheimer's tottin' three visa cards at the worlds largest flea market. I get that way.

Also handled a real beauty of a rifle: Dakota action, Lone Wolfe tactical stock, K&P barrell.. A repeater chambered for 6 BR. Incredible shooter. Built by Dakota. I think they're considering marketing some sort of tactical pkg. Don't really know. It was topped off with one of the new Lightforce tactical scopes. Major wood. Beautiful.

I want to test Varget with the 142 MK's in .260. If that works, then it's more Varget. It does well with Berger 140 vlds in .260, and very well with 175 MK's in .308. The .308 loves N140. I digress.

Interesting... this exchange with the Russian.

Once again, I say, SC is the best website, period.

Jeff A. <d1k2l3@smyrnacable.net>
Hotlanta, GA, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 22:07:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 139.76.64.4)


Ivan, I am glad you think the Drag A Piece of Crap is a fine sniper rifle. Makes life more pleasant for the good guys, us. Seriously that is no better than a M1 Garand for long range scope work. Just stay in Russia and your army wont find out how good are technology is.

Gooch see you in a few weeks. With loads of the slings I hope.

Undude/Mike
Mike M. <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 22:58:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.21.138.134)


Ivan, I forgot something. Your country is so corrupt that when I adopted my youngest from Ukraine, I had to pay the Russian Government Officials Off, one by one so they would let her out of the Country. She was starving ina concentration type "Childrens Home" She had a 7lbs7oz. birth weight and you F'ss did not feed her, so she weighed 13lbs at 2 years old. I know what I hear about your Government is true. They suck! Guys these wonderful Ivans let the kids starve until about two years old and then they send them close enough to the Chernobol that Cancer does the rest. Sorry Ivan I dont like your country. I like it only slightly more than the folks from Ukraine do.

Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 23:06:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.21.138.134)


Sarge: I'm a little disappointed by opinion of our Russian visitor here on the Duty Roster.

As a former member of the military, I can understand a certain amount of gaurded caution in welcoming in a former adversary into the NATO "fold".

Heck, for what it's worth I think that it's only normal to feel that way considering that the NATO - Russian relationship has been strained recently over the events in Kosovo.

However, as a council member of this fine web site, your comments show a certain amount of contempt for foreign (non-American) visitors.

I would like to think that as a council member you would welcome this guy as a respected member of the sniper community (if his claims of being a sniper are legitimate) whose input on Soviet-Russian sniper doctrine would be very much welcome here.

What I would like to know is if your comments are yours alone, or do they represent those of Sniper Country and its council members ? *

Shit man, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion and free to express it however you please.I certainly don't want to say that you, or anyone else for that matter, shouldn't.

Over the past 2 years on this site of heard all of the "play nice" and "maintaining the professional integrity of this site" rhetoric that I can remember.I'm willing to buy into this providing that these standards are applied equally to everyone.

It strikes me as rather odd that the professionalism of certain contributors to this site all of a sudden went out the back door when the new kid from the other side of town wants to come play in the Sniper Country sand box.

I might be taking your comment the wrong way.I certainly hope that is the case.

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 23:29:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.95.27)


Mr Paskz does appear to be sending us his messages from the Ukrane.
His web host is: zebra.carrier.kiev.ua
It makes for an interesting Duty Roster!

Out
mike <mike1000@pacbell.net>
USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 23:29:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.192.208.6)


Greetings,
I got a queation for anybody that can help.
A few years ago I bought a used M1A. It came with
500 rounds. The ammo has 144grn FMJ-BT with a steel
core. The cases have a " ZV " head stamp. Berdan primed.
It is also corrosive. This stuff shoot nice. Any one know
where it is from?
Thanks,
Terry
Terry Glenn <tglenn@pathway.net>
Harrisville, PA, USA - Monday, September 06, 1999 at 23:39:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.231.49.95)
Hey guys, lets not start a war over this "Russian sniper" thing.
I humped a '60 for three and a half years (read- sniper bait)
The time that I worked for Uncle Sam all I was taught was to hate "Ivan". Didnt work. I can respect any true solder no matter what his flag. My unit once put on a live-fire demo for some Warsaw Pact
brass. My CO told us to "Be polite, but you dont have to be nice"
We were just that. The demonstration went great. I ran about 5000
rounds through my gun. Be advised I was not emplaced, but moving with
the rest of the platoon. At the end a Polish Major asked if I thought
the U.S. could win a conventional war against the 'Pact. I just
smiled,lit a Marlboro, patted my MG and said "Yep"

Strike Fear,
Glenn
Terry Glenn <tglenn@pathway.net>
Harrisville, PA, USA - Tuesday, September 07, 1999 at 00:22:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.231.49.95)


I've been competing in "Tactical Matches" for some time with a .308 Win. model 70 straight out of the box. Handloads are performing better than Fed GM 168's. 42.7 grs of Viht N-150 in Fed brass trimmed .005 less than max. Sierra 168 BTHP match-molyed. BR-2's perform better than Fed 210M seating bullet
to the lands. Neck sized with RCBS ,seated with RCBS comp. seater.
Groups of 1 1/2inch @ 300yds are common. Scope is Leupold 6.5-20x40mm AO/EFR with BAER Custom tapered bases(from LIGHTFORCE) and Simmons 4x4 rings lapped for 100% contact. The guys with "built" guns really hate it when I'm smiling as I leave the firing line.
This load data is not a max load but should still be worked up from a lesser charge . A lot of range time was spent to find a "magical" load and this from a FACTORY gun.
CS Waldon <ICEMAN-18@webtv.net>
Warner Robins, GA., USA - Tuesday, September 07, 1999 at 01:01:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.240.200.96)
To Hexa, and Sarge:
Here are some pearls of wisdom from a great U.S. President, Abe Lincoln.
"I can always make more Generals. It's HORSES that are expensive!"
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Tuesday, Sep