Sniper Country Duty Roster

I recently got my Ar-15 Colt h-bar out of the safe to inspect for maint. and found a blue crystallization in the gas tube as well as in the bolt gas tube, it was oily “most likely” from break free did not find it any where else. I’ve not fired since May and cleaned w brake cleaner and clp--- left the weapon with a heavy clp coating in the safe. The humidity in my safe is about 20-30% the only other thing of comment in relation, was a very small area of light surface rust “despite heavy clp” on the bolt lug. The blue crystals were not adhering to the gas tube and did not seem to do any damage to the tube. I have never seen this and am wondering if any one has previously encountered this ?

J Hutchins
Monday, September 15, 2003, at 00:52:41 (ZULU)

BYRON

Thanks for the heads up on Jarheadtop. Racine Wisc. is only 2 hrs. from me. I sent an E Mail about 0600 this morning and had a phone call at noon, can't beat that and the prices, you saved me about $150.00

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 01:05:59 (ZULU)

John A.

You have E-Mail - NO Attachments !

Thanks,

BearMan

BearMan
Indy, Indiana, U.S.A. - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 01:10:01 (ZULU)

Thanks for the thoughts guys, yesterday was a bad day, as can be expected the whole family is devastated, as are all friends and neighbours.She was in a car with her friends and her friends boyfriend was driving. Another case of a young life wasted because some young idiot was driving to fast and lost control. I guess i can't judge that though because i was no different at that age, I guess a certain amount of recklesness comes with youth and that some of us are just lucky, but when innocent life is lost it is always a tragedy.

Dave Doc King, funny you should mention hunting, i could have sworn i saw a pig with your name on it in the woods the other day!and if your boy hunts i'm sure he'd like to come along too eh? and if you can jack up some hunting your end, i"ll fly over just for that buddy(any chance of accomodating Jon Beardsley too? we seem to have become a cross channel game sniping team).

Pete.

Peter Lincoln
D - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 07:06:11 (ZULU)

Bearman,

BTW, LW is a Lothar Walter barrel, I believe. If so, a damn fine choice for that rifle. Make sure it's at least a 1/11.25 twist or faster.

John

Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 11:30:36 (ZULU)

Peter

"i could have sworn i saw a pig with your name on it in the woods the other day!" Good, I see they're getting over that way too...there's a pile of them in Texas and Georgia waiting for me to show up again. My son's wife keeps him on a short leash when he's around so p[robably no pig hunting for him for a few years yet...newly married and they still haven't figured the sharing part yet I guess..

I have a few places here in the US to hunt...deer season (archery) just started today so I'm legally out of luck on firearms for a while (depredation is my usual shooting).

You're more than welcome to come over and hunt, Jon Beardsley too and most other folks for that matter. I have 2 extra bedrooms at the house and probably an extra vehicle for you to use if I can't come along for a day or two. If I can't get us on private land (I have a lot of private land available but it's often heavily hunted during the season(s)) we can go onto public (not too bad either...) the standard run-of-the-mill public hunters make better drivers than hunters and we can use their antics to push deer to us.) Weapons here locally are going to be little different... during deer firearms season(s) shotgun with slugs is normal but rifle is available too.

Back to work..

Another set of troop packages going out today... One to Major Joe and another to my son.

Dave "Doc" King
USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 12:22:54 (ZULU)

Shit Pete, thats bad news. Do you know how the lad and the family are taking it, other than bad? I'm truely sorry to hear that. Arseholes like the one who races up and down your street always seem to get away with it, then something like that happens to a young girl. Wheres the justice. Spoke to my boss I will have an e-mail inbound.

Doc, thanks for the offer. I may just have to take you up on that, if only to keep Pete out of trouble ;-). Thanks again

Jon

Jon Beardsley
Monday, September 15, 2003, at 13:16:11 (ZULU)

They are devastated Jon, turns out there were 3 cars racing and the guy who was winning was going the fastes and lost it on a bend, i know the bend in questing and there is a dip in the road that can easily make one of your rear tyres loose traction, i've had it happen to me at normal speeds never mind double the limit.The 3 in the rear of the car got thrown out as it went end over end, no seat belts i guess, one dead, one with a broken spine and the other one was lucky and had a soft landing in the field and only suffered bruising. This shit happens all the time, traffic control is always where it can make money for the local government and never in accident black spots (3rd death within 500m this year). And that little prat who lives down our road.. ive been reliably informed that when i'm not there he is still speeding down the road ( 30kmh zone and my guess is he is doing 70kmh), despite my .... hmm how do i put it? little chat with him the other week, well i guess i just didn't hit him hard enough.

Back to guns. I'm bedding the Parket Hale tonight, i am sure i got the mix wrong on that Devcon and thats why the oil broke it down, and i'm taking all my rifles down the range on wednesday, good old testing session.

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 13:36:10 (ZULU)

Pete,

Ever notice how it never seems to be the driver in these things. It happened here not to long ago. Two idiots with car loads of kids racing their "Fast and Furious" style cars on backroads. Lead car goes off the road, hits a bunch of stuff, rolls back into the street and gets hit by the other car. 16 year old female passenger didn't live long enough for the cars to slide to a stop. Both drivers are up for negligent homicide right now but that won't bring back somebody's little girl. We all did stupid things as kids but were either smart or fortunate enough to back off before someone got hurt. I don't think it'll ever change.

Murph

John Murphy
MILFORD, NH, USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 13:52:15 (ZULU)

U.S. Troops Run RPG Gauntlet with Guns and God

Sun September 14, 2003 07:37 AM ET

Cut and paste or click my name: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=reutersEdge&storyID=3439975

"TIKRIT, Iraq (Reuters) - Your average American soldier in post-war Iraq may want better food, more rest time and above all to go home, but the infantrymen out on night patrol in Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit have only one wish -- to get shot at.

The soldiers of the 1st Battalion, 22nd Regiment swear they have divine protection and say the easiest place to be attacked is in what they call "RPG alley."

. . .

"I feel like I could go out there with no protective gear," he said. "They could shoot a thousand rounds and they still would not kill me.""

Whoa fellas... whatcha thinking?

Joe, whats in the water over there?

~DA

DakotaAviator
K2, Uzbekistan - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 14:48:33 (ZULU)

Dennis..AKA Spud.

I had a visitor drop by my AO this weekend, it was Dee Turner. Him and the wife were on vacation and stopped by. We went out for supper and convinced them to spend the night.

We had a good visit, it was nice finally meeting him in person after e.mailing off and on for 5 years. Said he misses the matches and the guys. Its nice to know that the people you meet on here are just as damn nice in person as you imagine them to be.

Pat
Monday, September 15, 2003, at 17:25:35 (ZULU)

Murph, i guess the same shit happens all over the world, its a bitch each and every time, its just more of a bitch when its this close.

Do I bed the 7 rem mag tonight, or do i go hunting, thats the question i'm asking my self at the moment... sod it, i'll do both, go see if i can catch a deer before it gets dark, then go home and get the dremmel out,, hell if i'm quick i might even make the pub for last orders..

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 17:35:29 (ZULU)

>>Murph, i guess the same shit happens all over the world, its a bitch each and every time, its just more of a bitch when its this close<<

I'd say we average one every other month in my small area of coverage. Sorry this one hit so close to home Pete...

medicjim
Monday, September 15, 2003, at 17:39:32 (ZULU)

Thanks, Dirty Steve. You just had to go and tell Bobby about the skunk. I'll keep that in mind. You know, a GOOD spotter would have affected the outcome somewhat.........

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 17:46:32 (ZULU)

Gary K.,

I'm glad you were able to save money and this may sound strange but my intent was simply to pass on information so that you could make an imformed decision. This is a strange game we play. We ask questions and sometimes save money or time, sometimes spend more money but save time. Without the right information we sometimes save money now and later spend more money to replace or upgrade and end up spending more time in the process. I think I have been at both extremes.

Again, glad things worked out for you.

Pete,

I had my share of close calls as a youngster, both cars and motorcycles. Society sometimes turns a deaf ear to the needs of our youth. Things like drag strips are closed to build businesses or houseing, other tracks (circle or road courses) are closed for the same reasons. Street racing increases, kids die and everyone is scratching their heads. It is the same with gun violance as well, deny ownership, close ranges, don't teach gun safety in the schools or the homes. Then wonder why there are accidental shootings or rampage shootings.

Sorry about going sideways, must be something in the office air. It doesn't matter how they die when it is close to home. Pete, I know you have raised you son well so hopefully his friendship will help soften such a devistating blow to his friend and family.

Byron
CA, USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 17:47:46 (ZULU)

Sorry for such stupid questions, But I am finding out the more that I think that I am learning the more I realize that I don't know jack.

Is there a reason why so many zero their scope at 500 0r 600 yards? Is it just to stay inside 1 full rev. on their turret?

I am using the Tabasco SS and I have enough MOA. To go out a to 1K. When zeroed at 100. We usually shoot from 300-900. Using 175MK at about 2690 fps. Not a real 100 yd performer, As the groups don't get tight until 300-350. I can get 1/2 moa at 500 but not at 100. Trying to learn to use the scope. Most of the commercial books I have found just gloss over the set up and are more into range est. and wind dope, Which is a whole other subject. Trying to learn the shooting part, Not so much the sniper part yet, Need to crawl before the walk. Want to start coming out to the matches to shoot. But want the fundamentals down first. And I am starting into the Manually operated rifle bit in the USPSA. Thanks as always Keith

Keith Lucas
Monday, September 15, 2003, at 18:32:10 (ZULU)

Keith,

Who zero's their scope at 500-600 yards? I sure don't and I can't say I know anyone else that does. There might be some long range 50BMG shooters that do that because they've got a bunch of slope built into their bases and only shoot "way out there".

During Viet Nam the scopes used by American Snipers had no target dials on them so the snipers would zero at some extreme distance and then apply holds for various ranges (crotch, shoulders, knees, etc.). That is not the preferred solution. You want to dial in your range dope and hold POA/POI if you can with maybe a little bias or hold for wind.

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton, New York, USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 19:52:27 (ZULU)

Kevin,

I can see what you are saying, I could be reading very old info, The only hint as to why the 500 yd zero was to stay within 1 full turn up or down on the scope turret. It's hard to know what is bull and what is useful at my level. Thanks for your info. -Keith

Keith Lucas
Monday, September 15, 2003, at 20:23:21 (ZULU)

Range Report: Several months ago, when I was contemplating getting into this game, I heard good things on this site and others about the Winchester Model 70 Stealth, and I ordered one from my local dealer, who said it would be about 6 weeks, as they were not in production. A denizen of this site emailed me, and mentioned he had a NIB Model 70 HBV Stainless he was willing to part with, and did. So, I shot it, and now have about a thousand rounds through it. When the Stealth showed up, I put it, unpacked, in storage.

Back from Raton, where the HBV performed well, I thought that I ought to have a backup rifle, so I pulled the Stealth from storage last night and mounted a Nikon 5.5-16.5X44 I had sitting around on it - on a Badger base and in Badger rings, of course. When I degreased the action, I was not impressed with the bedding job, and cleaned up some sloppage with a sharp blade.

No matter - it shoots. After I did the "fire two, clean barrel" routine a few times, with Federal Match ammo, I fired a 5-shot group at 100 yards with the handload which works well in my HBV. The first group was .45 inches. That was probably a lucky fluke, as the second opened up to .65 inches. Not bad for a rifle with 20 rounds through the barrel. And that load is a Sierra 175 at 2700 or so fps. Who said those Sierra 175's don't group at a hundred yards?

It's nice, as the Chairman of the Department of Redundancy Department, to have two nearly identical rifles that shoot well. Now I can concentrate on improving the loose nut behind the bolt. The Nikon is going elsewhere, though, and a Leupold 6.5X20 Gen II is going on. I'll work up zeroes for both rifles with both scopes, so I can crossdeck the scopes between them. And one of them, probably the Stealth, is going to get a camo paint job this winter.

And thanks to Ken H. for the recommendation on the Bushnell Boresighter, which I used not only to get that rifle on the paper with the first shot, but also a 700 in an AI chassis belonging to another shooter out on the range who couldn't get it on paper. It works well!

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 20:39:20 (ZULU)

Rangefinders: Those of you with Leicas, do you like them for the money? I have only used a Bushnell 800. I am thinking of the Leica 1200.

Robert

tschiemer
Ark, USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 20:59:40 (ZULU)

Wes,

You got mail.

Topic Stealth 223

Spud

Dennis
me, Kalifornicateya, usa - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 21:07:24 (ZULU)

Pete,

mail.

Spud

Dennis
merced, Kalifornicateya, usa - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 21:17:23 (ZULU)

Pat,

Yep, he's definitely one of the good guys.

Spud

Dennis
merced, KA, usa - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 21:29:00 (ZULU)

Chuck, Game on for tomarrow. I will be at the Bat Cave at the prescribed time. And I didn't think any one needed a spotter for a 109 yd Skunk shot. Not my fault you didn't call for a range and just shot. Haha.

Andy's Dad, Darn good shooting. Quite impressinve.

Dirty Steve, Out.

Steve Dickerson
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 02:15:05 (ZULU)

Robert, The Leica LRF 1200 or 1200 Scan is the best one that the normal guy can purchase. Great customer service as well.

Michael
CA, USA - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 03:52:09 (ZULU)

Wes,

Good luck with the move. I'll give you a ring. What the hell happened to the Monday plan? That's what happens when we are both busy as hell.

Gooch,

Long time; 1996 if I'm right. Thanks for the thoughts and the help over the years. I hope what I've learned will pay off. As much as I hate to say it, I can't place SFC Couch though the name is familiar. 1-186 or 39th? Our rosters aren't complete yet and we are still waiting for a mob date. What's new, right? If you are still around Little Rock I'll buy you a beer next week. We're headed down for a pre-deployment train up. I bet you remember where to find us. Let me know.

Kevin Maries
OR, USA - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 07:07:36 (ZULU)

Wes,

Good luck with the move. I'll give you a ring. What the hell happened to the Monday plan? That's what happens when we are both busy as hell.

Gooch,

Kevin Maries
OR, USA - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 07:08:17 (ZULU)

Oh swell. Sorry guys.

Kevin Maries
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 07:10:53 (ZULU)

Pete,

I usually do the bedding early evening and then get up early to check the screws... Can also stay up all night with a few fingers of scotch and baby sit the job!

Saw a newspaper on the train this morning refering to Schottishes Fussball. Couldn't read the article, just saw the headline, is this Rugby auf Deutsche?

Marc

Marc Palmer
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 10:21:50 (ZULU)

Spud.. email to me? which addy did you use, i'm at work so you need to use that one..

Well my shift relief was late last night so i was away behind time, dashed home grabbed some scran and got changed,off to the woods, stalked into my favourite tree stand, hadin't been up the tree 10 mins when i heared some deer tiptoeing through the brush behind me, by then it was dark and the Doctor Optic 10x25's just wont cut it after about a half hour before dark, anyways i couldn't get a clean shot at the deer, which i presume where a doe and 2 kids. I sat up the tree stand waiting, i did think i caught the odd distant grunt or squeel of a pig, then i began to hera something in the under growth rooting about, there i was, rifle at the ready, crunch crunch on the leaves, twigs snapping, russle russle, i had the rifle shouldered for what must have been an hour, and then came the dark shape out of the shadows into the moon light.. it was a hog alright, a hedge hog (do you have them in the states? like a porcupine but different), damn if it wasn't the biggest fattest hedge hog i ever saw, it was as big as a socker ball, had to chuckle at the little sod.. There was a definate chill in the air, signaling the onset autumn, i even began to shivver. I decided i'd had enough and got out of the stand, and carried my plasic corn drum over to the feeder and began to top it up, i rolled the feeder back and forth a bit to drop some corn on the ground, and them went to take the drum back to its hideing place, i hadn't got to the stand when a herd of pigs hit the feeder behind me, others where behind the stand, i managed to get up the stand and almost got a pig in the scope, i guess one of them must have scented me because in a flash they all vannished. I waited and waited, hearing grunts, snorts and the odd squeel, i figured they knew i was there so wouldn't risk the feeder again, sod it i thought, maybe i can stalk them with this moonlight, it will be hard without my big bino's, but i'll give it a go, so off i went, in the direction i thought the pigs had gone, i'd gone a couple of hundred yards when i heared pigs moving, then some grunts, so i followed them, did some gruntinmg my self and stalked into the pigs, i was stalking blind basicaly just homeing in on the noises they where making, i followed them through the woods, occasionaly catching a glimpse of a dark shadow moving here an there, judgeing from the direction they where heading i fugured they where making for some oak trees, it has been windy this week and i expected there to be acorns on the ground, i figured i'd bet my chances on the oaks at the side of the little meadow about 300m from the intersection of the neares two track, so i quit following the pigs and did an out flanking manouver, arriving at the southern egde of the meadow just as the pigs got under the oaks, the meadow is only maybe 20m by 100m, the pigs where in the bushes under the oaks about 15m away, i could hear them but not see them as the trees cast a shadow, then i saw the shape of a pig appear onto the meadow about half way along, then another, there where 2 pigs mow clear to see in the moonlight about 50m away, but i was unsure of a back stop for the bullet and with a camp site bieng only maybe 700m away i needed to make a safe shot, i stalked along the edge of the trees on the south side of the meadow, trying to stay well under the shadows, occasionaly a pig would grunt what seemed to be a challenge, i grunted back and shuffled my feet in the leaves (they seem to be able to tell human foot steps but if you shuffle they take you for a pig) anyway, they calmed down so i moved closer, i neded to get a better angle on them. Then something spooked the ones on the meadow and they rejoined the others under the oaks. I took the opertunity to cover the last 20m i needed and i was in a good postition, after maybe 5 minutes i could see a snout venturing out of the shadows, testing the air, the wind was in my favour and one then another pig stepped into the moonlight, i shouldered the rifle and followed one pig on its meanderings back and forth across the meadow, then it presented a nice broad side and i gently squeezed the trigger. The pig dropped , gave a couple of kick and lie still, the other pigs dispursed in all directions. I chambered another round and proceeded towards the pig, rifle at the ready. The pig was dead, a hole through both shoulders and its lungs just a pulp. A young dry sow, maybe a year and a half old. I went and got the car. Let the dog find the pig and then got to grips with gralloching and loading it into the car.

On the way to the cools store at the Forrestry commission office i cam across a police road block, they where stopping traffic that was around the airport, looking for suspected terrorists and the odd drunk driver i expect. I pulled in as signalled, I put my window down and the cop shon his maglight in, you should have seen the guys face when he saw that i was covered in blood up to my elbows. "I have a hunting rifle on the rear seat Officer"i said, "I've just been hunting and shot a pig, if you take a look in the back you will see it"the cop shon his light on the rifle and then on the pig, he asked my name and wished me a good night and off i went to hang the pig.

Well a successfull night, i didn't get my 7mm bedded, didn't make last orders at the pub, but the stalk was exciting and successfull.

Pete L

Peter Lincoln
D - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 11:11:31 (ZULU)

Marc , now what kinda bedding would that be buddy? I think the square heads call rugby rugby, but who knows. You get a look at that stutzen yet?

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 11:14:49 (ZULU)

PeterL,

That prayer went "higher." Seems prayers for the survivors are getting all too frequent. I asked God to give the lad some answers and hope in his grief. Rats...I still can't deal with it when it is the kids' bearing the weight. Some things are just too heavy for our children to face.

Dave, most of the ECUs (airconditioners) we got work the other way too. Believe it or not, heaters will be in demand soon enough--if only for a few nights here and there. With all the bugs, that may be the hot ticket for keeping health around these parts (pun intended).

Speaking of bugs, got nuked by one over the weekend. Spent the last thirty six hours in a blissful coma. Steroids and codeine made for a nice R & R. Unless everyone is messing with me, it is Tuesday and Monday never happened. Heheh. I feel better, still know I got knocked low, but better.

Recieved packages from Johnny McF (TN) and Bruce's registered. I built 3 company care boxes by cross load; and sent them out with two CSMs today. Infantry, 82d and 1 ID. They'll do the right thing (I know both from the duece days) and only the young front liners will get this. I'm sidelined for another day or two with the lungs full of fluids--enough to make me follow the sawbone's advice for once!

Wes: .223 Stealth: Mine is a Wednesday riffle. I got a second for the wifey; and her's is even better. They don't much care for 77s, but they print the hell out of the lighter boolits. I guess a handloader could really wring some groups out of these, I use factory fodder and have zero complaints. Excellent chuck guns.

Geoff, I'll be in town about 3 OCT-18 OCT for the birth thingy. What seasons are open--I forgot my reg (heheh). I'm thinking BP or archery, maybe turkey. Pheasants for sure. Let me know.

John Murph: Same thing on my rural route. Tragedy from hell, two families devastated. Only here it was 4 girls never to see their 17th birthday.

DA: The BGs hit the tail, not the tip of the spear, that article is the frustration venting.

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 14:08:08 (ZULU)

Gents:

Need some info:

There's this SVD Druganov, Arabic markings translated "training"--it has a red plastic end cap affixed to the pistol grip. There is this nice big hole (1/8-5/32") drilled horizontally through the chamber right at the case shoulders. Otherwise, this thing is fully functional and brand damned new. This one is USSR made, near as we can tell built in 85 (our russian is rusty). It is 99% condition, a real keeper (errr, for a museum).

Only problem is all the weapon guys are up north, and none of us know what else to look for. It appears that a new barrel will make this thing functional. No one here has ever seen a hole drilled like this (and I'd kinda remember something that obvious even 12 years ago!).

Anyone ever seen one of these? The drilled hole was a manufactured deal, the blueing is inside the cut, and the chamber was deburred.

Someone help me out here?

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 14:21:39 (ZULU)

Pete,

You bed your way and I'll bed mine!!!!!

Got the MS stutzen in my hands last week at the range in Esslingen. The metal is in very nice condition but the stock has some significant character. Stock is not cut, the pad was just added after the butt plate was removed. One slight problem, the front base is dovetailed into the receiver about 1mm. A saddle type base was soldered to the front ring and then the dovetail cut through the base and the ring. It is surely safe and professionally done years ago but it is still cut and I don't really want one with the cut. One other issue is the caliber, not sure if it is a 6.5 X 54 or a 6.5 X 57. Could be either but there is not any markings visible to say which and in the early 60's both were made.

Have you noticed Frankonia Jagd has M. Nagant sniper rifles for sale? Looked at a few that were matching numbers and in new condition. My source says they are Arsenal rebuilds of regular 91/30s done in the 50's and then placed in storage until now.

On Wednesday I shot 100 rd of 9mm Mak from a Steckin MP. The trigger is not good but with the stock attached the gun will shot right small groups at 25m. This is one of those guns converted to semi only that are selling now for 500 Euro. The gun is ugly as a Darmstadt chicken and heavy to boot but in one of the matches shooting paper targets the accuracy of the thing along with 20 rd magazines might be the trick. There was a good article about these things in either DWJ or Visier about 1 or 1 1/2 years ago.

I'm now arguing with the Germans about my need for a sport pistol beyond my two authorized hunting pistols. They don't want to recognize me being a sport shooter as well and say the other two should meet my needs. Have you fought this battle? Maybe you are in a different category since you are half-human (Brit) versus us non humans (US or any other non W. European)

Gotta go get some sleep... spent a good part of the night chasing a pig that was hit by a car near Renningen last night.

Marc Palmer
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 15:14:53 (ZULU)

Joe , thanks.. what you seem to have there is a training aid, used for instructional purposes, i saw some come back from gulf 1 and they ended up as mess wall hangers, saw some AK's and some RPK's and i even remember an RPG all "de activated"like that, my guess is that the firing pin will be shortened too and possibly some part of the locking mechanism may be removed, lugs, whatever. I don't know for sure, but this often was done to weapons that where shot out, it bieng cheaper to purchase a new rifle than have the old one repaired, the hole will be neatly machined and the chamber de-burred to enable use(functioning) with DP rounds(inert), if you imagine, the working weapons are needed on the front line, drill purpose (DP) or instructional weapons can be used for training, you don't need a Dragunov(or whatever) that actualy shoots to practice holds, sling technique, loading, unloading and stoppage drills and the non firing part of basic marksmanship principles or even bayonet practice or rifle drill.The Brit army used to(and probably still do) use scimilar things for instruction and training in training depots, due to constant stripping and assembling, stoppage drills and the general abuse that raw recruits dish out this means actual combatant weapons are not abused and we also had ones with lots of bits cut away to show the workings and we used these extensively on Armourers courses ( i remember seeing an AI sniper rifle at the IWA this year that was a cutaway instructional purposes piece) to show how things work, what we did was instead of blueing or parkerising the edges of the machined out sections we would paint them red, and a yellow DP would be stencilled on the stock some where, the flash hider would be painted ... yellow(no that was blank firing barrels) i think we use red also. Certainly we had a DP or instructional version of every firearm used by the British and commonwealth armed forces and also even had the same thing in instructional anti tank, mortar artillery and tank pieces.I guess the Navy and Airforce had thier own gadgets like this too) plus several others from friendly and enemy nations (so we knew how to use them and repair them should we have too). My guess is that you could probably easily get the piece firing again, eastern block origin training purpose weapons never seemed to be deactivated to the standards that they where in the west, i guess the powers that be in the west where shit scared of the DP guns bieng re- activated and used for illegal purposes. If you have your unit armourer check out the thing, i expect he will be able to tell you exactly what it needs to get it on the road again.

Marc, i haven't seen the nagants, an enfield No4Mk1 T is first on my list. Ref the sport / target shooting stuff with pistols, if you join a club then there isn't much they can do but authorise you, failing that get a collecters permit, its damn ridiculouse, when you think about it, its us that gave the germans back the right to privately own weapons after the war and now the bastards do everything they can to prevent us from not owning them now. My theory is that if you've bothered your ass to do the damn hunter course, then providing you've behaved yourself to date and have propper storage then you should be able to have what the hell you want, i mean shit, you can have 2 pistols, thats 1 for each hand, how much more mayhem are you gonna cause if you have another pistol or two, what you gonna pull the trigger with on the 3rd gun? your dick? they are just bieng petty and a pain in the ass..

Darmstadter Chicken, laughed me ass off, never mind the chickens buddy, there are some mean looking sheila's here, frighten the hell out of me in the disco. And you supposed to shoot the pigs , not run em down in your jeep..

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 16:12:03 (ZULU)

Pete,

Thanks, good info. Our armorer is a book worm civie guy--I know more than he does about damned weapons, which ought to scare ya all!

The firing pin is full length and new, as are all the parts except the barrel.

The rudimentary demill is this thing's ticket home. Yep, wall mount. Curiosity got me thinking this thing could be returned to duty, as it were. I'll pass this along--training, demilled...the arabic translation told me as much---but the lack of any serious demil was strange. I am used to the army's plugged barrels and welds. Punching the chamber seemed a bit wimpy, so I had to ask...

Now to figure out the SKS pile in cosmoline....:))

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 17:40:25 (ZULU)

Pete said:

>>>you can have 2 pistols, thats 1 for each hand, how much more mayhem are you gonna cause if you have another pistol or two, what you gonna pull the trigger with on the 3rd gun? your dick? <<<<

I'd stick with nines...a .45 might knock an inch or two off; an then you'll be crying for more gun restrictions yourself. :)))

Gitt-it boyz, I sed a funny!

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 17:46:55 (ZULU)

Gent's, this is too good not to share, it is from a liberal socccer mom, who happens to be my first cousin. For me, it is the patriotism that only is found in the heart. If she gets it, there is hope...

>>>For me it still really feels like it happened yesterday - (husband) thinks this is because I was in the WTC buildings so often and knew some of the dead, and he may be right, but it was so jarring. The images of the people jumping out the windows to escape the fire are the worst. My throat gets tight every time they show that; I can't help but wonder if I knew any of them.

I was working in NY during the first terrorist attack on the WTC in Feb 1993. I wasn't working in the WTC building, but the train I took from Trenton NJ let me out in the concourse at the bottom of the WTC every morning. The buildings were still intact but the train stations beneath the buildings were pretty gutted. It was a horrible wake-up call to what the terrorists were trying to do. In the year preceding 9/11, with the bombings of the U.S. Embassies and the USS Cole, I was wondering in the back of my mind how much worse it was going to get. And ever since 9/11, I've been almost purple with rage. All I've wanted is an exacting revenge. You are right about the terrorists wanting nothing less than to convert the U.S. into an Islamic state. And on a personal note, to realize that al Qaeda hates me even more than the average U.S. man simply because I'm female - how do you intelligently respond to that?

I worry about our kids too - they already have seen more in their short lives than we did at the same age. B* (oldest son) is a real "people person" and upon seeing what had happened he crawled under his bed and cried really hard. He simply couldn't understand why anyone would fly a plane - on purpose - into a crowded building. I think it hit a little too close to home for B* too. I had been in Boston only the week before, and only ten days before all of us had flown out to San Francisco (where one of the planes was headed) and back from L.A. (where three of the planes were headed). D* (younger son) was a lot quieter, but he drew a picture in his school journal of the two towers burning. Underneath he wrote " I feel very sad for the people who died". He also wrote "My mom is sad. My mom is brave". This was supposed to be D's private journal but his teacher showed it to me. I can't tell you how heartbroken I was. It was a week before I could even compose myself enough to talk to him about it. Turns out he thought I was brave because I work in one of the Liberty Towers. One and Two Liberty Place are twin towers and are the tallest buildings in Philadelphia (though not nearly as tall as the WTC buildings were). We figured out together that I didn't really have anything to worry about since I'm on the 8th floor. He felt better after that. But I didn't - I just want all of al Qaeda annihilated. So much for my maternal side, huh?<<<

I'd say that is as good as it gets. I bet there's alot of registered dem's who think the same...we'll see next year. I'm proud of this woman...and I hope she forgives me for sharing, even the edited version...

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 17:56:19 (ZULU)

Joe M.

You have mail through SCDR.

JLU

Joe Udelhofen
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 18:34:31 (ZULU)

Do any of you gentlemen know who sells loopy 2.5X8 VariXIII mildots cheap?

CDC'
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 18:47:30 (ZULU)

I had just read Joe Mahons comments about his recent medical condition and ran across this:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34608

Mk4
Texas, Remember 9-11, United States of America - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 19:04:35 (ZULU)

Cut from the article MK4 posted....

>>But an alarming outbreak of more than 100 suspected pneumonia cases among Gulf War II veterans serving in Iraq and southwestern Asia has drawn the ire of Congress<<

I wonder what the normal occurance rate for suspected pneumonia is in the local population? Maybe three to four times that rate?

medicjim86
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 20:26:04 (ZULU)

Joe,

What Pete said... drilling a hole in the shoulder is a quick and easy way to demil a weapon for drill and training purposes. I have several P-17 Enfeilds with a hole in the shoulder and a piece of steel welded into it. Other than that, everything else is in working order. A new barrel and it's ready to go. How much they do depends on who they are and how aggressive they feel when they get the order to demil. And sorry to hear about the tradgety back home. I used to do my best to curb the youth in the area I worked with little success. As long as there are cars we'll probably be deliving the bad news to someone. Fortunately I never had to deliver that news and will do what I have to keep it from happening. Stay safe over there and keep up the good work.

Murph

John Murphy
Milford, NH, USA - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 22:08:33 (ZULU)

Pete;

You still shooting that .450 Marlin? I was considering getting one. How's the fit, finish, and performance? I bet it has some stout recoil.

Savage update;

I recently replaced the "rubbermaid" factory stock on my 10FP. I bought one of the Bell & Carlson Duramax stocks. It is a vast improvement feel wise. It came with a Pachmyer(sp?) decelerator pad (nice) and a textured finish.

It needed to be worked over slightly as the barrel channel went to the left and there were some casting build up in the trigger and magazine recesses. There are some issues I thought they could have done better on. The trigger guard recess has only the hole for the rear action screw. The rear guard screw hole has to be made yourself. Also, it only has two swivel studs. Neither are difficult to handle, but I expected the maker to have done that simple work.

All in all, it is a good replacement for the crappy factory stock. It is quite rigid and more comfortable. Cost was under $100.

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 00:42:23 (ZULU)

Gents And Ladies:

It just keeps on getting better.

Generous check from Richard in FL, and a box of jerky and AA batteries from Chris in OR. Safeway Store #353 also kicked in on that package.

Child Bride gets back tomorrow (Thank God! I'm getting tired of taking care of myself!) and Thursday we'll hit Wally World and the Smoke Shop on the Rez, with $633.38 in her hot little hands. Y'all have never seen a woman grin until you've seen her buyin' stuff for the troops!

Thanks to all of you. And thanks to Joe.......you keep yourself healthy, you hear? Anything happens to you, I'm back to just one job.......

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 02:24:17 (ZULU)

Heard from my lawyer today. The USO lawyer says they wont drop the suit and wanted a sworn statement form me before this went further. Well HOGs my lawyers say I have no choice but to fight and thats what I am going to do.

This is a BS suit by USO and I wont fold because they have a lawyer. I have two laywers myself now.

Duty

Honor

Country

and no false claims of being a Doctor here.

Undude/Mike

MikeMiller
CA, - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 02:36:52 (ZULU)

Gents,

Finsished our move this morning. Spent the day getting odds and ends. Picked up wifes new vacuum. New microwave is on order.

Think I worked out harder the last three or four days than I have in a long time. Muscles say ouch!

We are in, ensconced, in our new home. Wife is ecstatic. Me...? Just sore and tired. Expecting the bills for her remodeling over the next year or two...hey, maybe I DO owe myself a new Winchester Stealth!

I'm using my stepson's computer just to get on line. Looks like we'll be living out of boxes for a week or two. Still have to bring household items out of storage, but can do that at our leisure.

Back to work tomorrow...I need the rest.

Kevin, Thought you were out of the loop for the next week or two shooting wise. As for our move...we packed the majority of items on the 14th and moved them. Back for a final load the 15th and to clean the house. Today...turn in rental vehicles and try to make heads or tails out of the ensuing chaos.

Hope all is well with you.

Mike, sorry to hear about the continuation of the USO lawsuit. Sounds like someone is grasping at straws and is going to make everyone else miserable. Good luck

Roster Hogs: If you want our new address and phone number hit me via e-mail. Won't publish it here for obvious reasons.

Thanks for the input on the Stealth .223's, folks.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 03:07:04 (ZULU)

Mike Miller:

Not to get into a legal discussion on a shooting board, but what's his basic beef as stated in his complaint? Mind if I ask?

Hank
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 03:34:10 (ZULU)

I vaguely remember someone posting a source for action screws for Winchester Model 70 short actions that were either hex drive or square drive. I'd sure like to replace the Phillips drive screws that came with mine. A search of the Brownell's catalog doesn't turn anything up, and the search function here turns up way too many pages to look at. If anyone remembers that source, please let me know. Thanks!

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 03:36:46 (ZULU)

Lindy,

I did a search over on Snipersparadise.com and found a guy that had the same problem you described. He replaced the screw with a hex head from Brownells Catalog. - Yes, your memory is correct!........

Hope this helps,

BearMan

BearMan
Indy, Indiana, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 04:02:40 (ZULU)

Bearman: Thanks. I sure couldn't find those screws doing an online search of the Brownell's web site. I guess I'll just have to call them.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 04:23:25 (ZULU)

Lindy,

The screws in Brownells are made by B-square, I didn't see them on the web site either but found them the old fashioned way. Brownells part number: 122-505-670.

Or you can get them from B-Square,

http://www.reliablehost.com/bsquare/screws.html

Go almost all the way to the bottom of the page.

Rob Opp

Robert Opp
Jamestown, ND, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 04:35:11 (ZULU)

Someone else tipped me off that B-Square has them, and for other rifles than the Winchester. Click on my name for the link. Price even includes a wrench. Way cool!

Man, you gotta be fast around here. Rob, Bearman, thanks for the help - two sets on order.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 04:36:42 (ZULU)

Jody,

With all of Pete's hunt stories & talk of the 450 marlin, I got me one a short while back. Got the 1895MR model. Recoil is not too bad. Haven't worked up any butt-kick loads yet. Seems the factory stuff does a surefire job. Hornady 350 gr jacketed round nose groups under 1" at 50 yards unsupported. Certainly good enough for huntin. Just took a near 400lb black bear boar a couple weeks ago in Manitoba. One shot, one kill. Bruin only went 12 yards.

Back to workin & lurkin

Deputy Doug

Doug Bourdo
K Town, WI, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 04:48:45 (ZULU)

Pete,

"And you supposed to shoot the pigs , not run em down in your jeep.."

You kill em your way, I'll do it mine!

Wasn't sure if you knew the chicken thing, but then again...

Marc Palmer
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 08:28:45 (ZULU)

Marc W: Received one heavy box! Gotta tell the story though: Mail guy for this side of town is an old fella of a Staff Sergeant with an "Americal" Combat Patch (yeah, a Vet from a real ass-kicker of a war), well, he is doing his part once more, has a clearance, NG status or maybe active in the IRR or retired roles, but he's here now; and that's just too cool, doing the courier thing. I always hit him up for advice; he's forgotten more about surviving hostile fire than any of us newbies will ever know! So he comes in today, just bathed in sweat, (he calls me MAJ Joe), he says, "damn ya sir--your gunna be the death o' me yet--come git yer box off the street..." We're marshalling some trucks out front, so he had to park way up the road. I follow him out and retrieve this big ol' box. (now I'm sweating my butt off)--and he says, "God bless ya for what yer all doin'-- but I hope they ship your ass up the pike soon...my back can't take it anymore!" He meant it too. Hahahaha.

This, just in time for some paratroopers heading in to the fray. I'll deliver tomorrow. Thanks, Marc (next time consider two small boxes, eh?)

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 09:22:16 (ZULU)

Mike,

FWIW: I was looking into switching glass when I first came here, and considered USO or Nightforce. We had a lively discussion as I recall, and the bottom line was the consensus of overly large OBJ's on the NF; and overly complicated and unreliable ordering procedures followed by shitty (not merely bad, but shitty) customer service with the USOs. Since all advice was first hand and specific in the horror, I scatched USO (and pocketed some change) and decided to stay Loopy even though the NSX was tempting. I may yet get some NF glass, if I ever follow Fatboy down the path to 6.5 nirvana. But I'd never ever take a USO scope---not after what I learned of them right here.

You go. Get some! Email me offline. I'd like to pledge some support for you, should it get uglier.

Joe M.

Mike, no shit--I want to help...

Joe Mahon
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 09:33:33 (ZULU)

Hey Joe, glad the "big box" made it to you; I guess I got carried away! :) Hope the stuff will put a smile on the face of some of the guys. You be sure to rummage through there and see if there is anything you may want. I'm working on another box right now; let me know if you need anything specific. Did you read my note(cameras)?

Keep your head down,

Marc

Marc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 12:53:46 (ZULU)

Marc,

Gotta admit, the cigars caught my eye. But this one box is going to the troops et-al; no poaching on my part. I'll get a local KMOI agent to bring me another pile of cubanos if I run low. I have resources that our boys do not. Bruce's jerky was a whole different matter though...heheh. Camel just ain't the same...

I'll pass the note on to the Command Sergeant Major of whatever infantry battalion is moving out next. This will definately boost morale battalion wide. Ha! I'll do it in front of his First Sergeants just to keep him honest too!

Joe

Joe Mahon
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 13:11:42 (ZULU)

I received this last night,it's worth looking at. Sorry I could not make it a link, just copy and paste.

http://www.inlibertyandfreedom.com/Flash/heroes.swf

Mike M:

Sorry to hear about your troubles with USO.

TonyM
FL, US of A!!!! - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 13:49:15 (ZULU)

Joe,

>>>>>Marc W: Received one heavy box!<<<<<<

Not sure whether you're addressing me (since I'm Mark W) or Marc P from Kentucky.

Actually the box that I sent wasn't that big, it just got REAL heavy only after filling it with paperbacks, batteries, hard candy and then I used some animal crackers and a couple of brand new Cabela catalogs for stuffing. I do remember the shipping wasn't cheap but well worth our troops getting it.

But....there wasn't any cigars in mine ;)))

Mk4
Texas, Remember 9-11, United States of America - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 14:15:23 (ZULU)

It seems we have an overabundance of Marc's on here! :)

Marc Williams

AKA: drmarc

drmarc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 14:30:14 (ZULU)

Oops.

My mistake. You know there was a notice sent out a while back on the Roster that there were soooo many Mark/Marc's on the DR that any male children born to any of the Roster Hawgs be named anything BUT....... Hehe.

To Sweetie and all those in the path of Isabel. STAY SAFE!!

Mk4
Texas, Remember 9-11, United States of America - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 15:11:17 (ZULU)

This should apply to all here: Makes you think how we did make it.

People over 25 should be dead.

To the survivors:

According to today's regulators and bureaucrats, those of us who were kids in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's probably shouldn't have survived.

Our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paint. We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets, and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets. (Not to mention the risks we took hitchhiking.)

As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.

Riding in the back of a pickup truck on a warm day was always a special treat.

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle. Horrors! We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle, and no one actually died from this.

We ate cupcakes, bread and butter, and drank soda pop with sugar in it, but we were never overweight because we were always outside playing.

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the street lights came on.

No one was able to reach us all day. No cell phones. Unthinkable.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then rode down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem.

We did not have Playstations, Nintendo 64, X-Boxes, no video games at all, no 99 channels on cable, video tape movies, surround sound, personal cell phones, personal computers, or Internet chat rooms.

We had friends! We went outside and found them.

We fell out of trees, got cut and broke bones and teeth, and there were no lawsuits from these accidents.

We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate worms, and although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes, nor did the worms live inside us forever.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's home and knocked on the door, or rang the bell or just walked in and talked to them.

Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team.

Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment.

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law. Imagine that!

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and problem solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.

We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.

And you're one of them!

Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors?

JLU

Joe Udelhofen
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 15:31:18 (ZULU)

The offers of contributions are great guys. The offer means alot to me but right now I dont want you guys to send me any money. I prefer to fight this with my funds and not yours. As to it getting uglier than it is I hope not.

Why I cant go into all of whats going on, as its better they get served with my response and other legal papers before anyone on here knows about it. I can tell you some things they alleged in the complaint against me:

1. They say I took some scopes for article and never wrote any articles on any USO scopes. They say I promised two articles. Anyone here not see atleast two articles written by me on USO scopes. I never helped another company copy any USO product.

2. They say my real purpose for getting USO scopes was to give them to USO's competition so they could reverse engineer the USO scopes. They further this with saying all I did was hurt USO's business by teling lies about them. Anyone on here more than one year going to say I did not try my best to help them get the company on track?

3. They say I have given away trade secerts. What secerts are they talking about and why would I have them?

4. They say I have information that couold help them in a lawsuit against another scope company and wnat this information. If I give it to them they may drop the suit against me. I sure wish I knew what information I am supposed to have, since no other company has asked me for any information about USO scopes and I did not help any other company like I did USO.

5. They have said the amount they want is 32,000.00 some odd dollars for what they alleged I have done.

Give me some time and I will publish what ever I can so you guys can read my side of it. The bottom line is this is BS and just in my opinion an attempt to shut me up. Lawsuits are nothing new to them and they have threatened lawsuits against others who spoke up. Ask Pablito about that. Like I said before I have nothing to hide. I have done nothing wrong.

One thing I will tell you is they have pressured other website to keep this from being discussed in an open forum. Now if they had nothing to hide why would they do that?

Others on here say all they really want is to talk to me and then they would drop the suit. I have said if they drop the suit first I will answer all their questions. My lawyers say I cant talk to them until they drop the suit as it may hurt my chances of defending myself if they dont drop it. Got to go with the experts on this. My realm is shooting not legal things.

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
CA, - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 15:33:58 (ZULU)

Joe, one thing if you really want to do me a favor just get yoyurself home safe and in one piece. That will make me happy. Think about you and other guys in harms way everyday. My shit is nothing. I am sitting back drinking cold ones, granted with a bum leg, for medical purposes daily. I know what you are living like and my heart goes out.

Now if anyone wants to help, just contact me off line if I have helped you on a USO purchase, advice or problem. I just want the truth nothing else.

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
CA, - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 15:56:03 (ZULU)

Mike M.

Like I said on the "other" forum before it was deleted; I really hope things work out for you. I've had to deal with an unwarranted suit before myself and know the emotions and aggrevation involved. The only SOB's that do well in a lawsuit are the attorneys! Remember there is a little known suit the unjustly accused can initiate called "Malicious Prosecution" that allows you to return the favor. It's difficult to win but it can be done, I have. :)

I've read the Unertl and Armalite suits and settlement agreements on the Unertl website, very interesting reading.

drmarc

drmarc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 16:01:50 (ZULU)

KEVIN MARIES,

How are you doing? Long time no hear! Good to see that you are still around and posting!

I will be up at Little Rock for the Wilson match next month. Maybe you will still be there and I will see you there!

SFC Pete Carpentier jr TXNG
C.C., TX, - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 20:23:29 (ZULU)

To all of those in the path of Isabel ... welcome to the party (maniacal laugh).

Seriously though, throw a PFD (lifejacket) in the car if you ain't leaving.

brian k. sain
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 21:41:14 (ZULU)

Lindy and others about the Winnie action screws;

They LOOK like a philips, but they are a kinda strange-assed thing that uses a #2 Square drive. They suck.

B-Square DOES make an allen set to fit. They are a little soft.

But they work a whole lot better...

Spud

Dennis
merced, Kalifornicateya, usa - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 21:55:01 (ZULU)

Hogs,

Tomorrow we're leaving for a bit of a break, and will only be back NEXT week Sunday. So, please play nice, and don't break anything.

Also, if somebody's sent me something and I've not replied - I'm not *really* ignoring you, I'm just busy with my studies. Hopefully all will return to normal HA after the end of October.

Marius

Marius
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 23:07:17 (ZULU)

Joe Mahon, you got a civvie armourer? any jobs going? hey, we got a load of Joe's as well as Mark/Marc's..

Jody and Doug, yep i'm still shootin the Marlin, the pig the other night was with the 308 though. The recoil from the 350 grain factory stuff is.. stout. despite the porting, shooting it from the bench is not something you'd want to do all day, you don't, however, notice the recoil when your shooting at game. The thing is damn accurate and will make big cloverleaves or ragged holes at 100m, it would interest me to try this thing at extreem range, perhaps 350 to 400m, but the sod will have a rainbow trajectory. What i don't like about the Marlin is that mine is a straight stocked version, they now do a pistol grip version, i would like to convert mine. I would prefer a version without the porting, again, they now do a version without ports, id then thread the barrel and put a decent muzzle break on it. I realy wish that Hogue would make a stock for this rifle but Hogue say it would cost em to much to make the mold and that they wouldn't sell enough marlin stocks to make it worth thier while, i guess i'll have to either go with a laminate stock or a synthetic from wild west guns, but judging on the 9 months ive been waiting for my lazer light holder, its probably not worth ordering anything from them. I am toying with the idea of having the rifle turned into a break down jobbie.

I had a very nice young lady from Steiner Optik call me today, apparently thier service manager has been trying to call me but not reached me, she wanted to make an apointment for when he could actualy contact me. He will be calling me at 12.00 tommorow, i'll see what they want to offer me for my wet bino's episode.

I also had a very encouraging email from Zeiss/Hensold today about tactical/longrange scopes, and i have replied with some ideas,and points that i consider to be of vital importance. If S&B wont do the 4-16x42, then maybe Zeiss will accomodate us.

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 23:35:47 (ZULU)

Well I'll be, ..Pete Carpentier.

How the hell are you? How's Ed and that young buck you partnered with for awhile? I'll have to look at Lau's book to remember his name. Since I've gotten back in the swing of things, I see that you've been busy with a number of articles and events. That's great. Looks like you are still the driving force in the TXARNG.

Ran across some of your Joe's at our TAG match last March. They were taking a break from Depot duty. If I remember right the 240B team took first. We aren't gonna let them come back if they keep that shit up. I hope they made it back OK.

Won't make Wilson this year. Tried to convince Bn that it would be a great train-up but they wouldn't buy it. I'm AGR now and it's hard to justify anything but paperwork. Come on deployment!

Hit my email sometime and be sure to say hello to Ed for me.

Kevin Maries
OR, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 02:07:52 (ZULU)

Had supper last night with Neil Morris. What a nice guy.

brian k. sain
Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 03:43:39 (ZULU)

Oh don't you just love it when your night shift finnished just at the right time to get into the woods perfectly for the morning stalk, do and get a deer right now. Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 04:58:17 (ZULU)

Undude,

>> edited <<

Kick some ass, man.

jc
Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 05:33:36 (ZULU)

Hi guys...

I don't get much time to post anymore... I'm hardly on the web at all anymore. I've been busy as hell.

I swore that I wasn't gonna do anymore gun projects this summer, but I've been up to my ear lobes in them.

I have an honory degree in side by side combat shotguns, and have learned (the hard way) about rebuilding a SxS lock :(((, and I also learned about re-timing the locks (one beau-damn-datious job)... but now I have one hellova coach gun cas... it's so slick that it can be run totally with the right hand, while the left hand just stuffs ammo in the tubes. :))

On this law suit against Micky... USO has been known for some low handed shit over the last 3 or 4 years, and have pulled some fast crap in the industry. Many optical guys won't even deal with John Williams anymore, and he's feeling the pain.

But this takes the cake.

Ol' "Doctor" John Williams tried to license some patients from one of our favorite scope companies, and was told to go suck a rock ! "HA!... Double HA!!

Anyway... guys in the know have been on to USO for some time, and I started blowing USO's covers on the Roster several years ago.

Back a year and a half ago, The "Doctor" threatened to sue me (poor MOI??), and I laughed, and said, "You haven't lived until you have tried to sue me... suing me is like trying to catch a greased gerbil, while wearing catcher's mits on both hands" Triple HA!!!

But our favorite grumpy Micky gave John the benifit of the doubt, and stayed with them, trying to help them get it right. I offered Micky to help USO get it right, through Micky, under the conditions that USO (or anyone else) NEVER found out where the information came from. I mean, I got a reputation to protect, and what would people say if I was helpin' USO... (even hookers woudn't talk to me), but that was never taken up ;))

When USO had sucked Micky dry, they tossed him in the garbage, and then sent HIM a bill for about $3000 for some scopes that HE (Micky) he was evaluation for them :((( What a scum suckin' outfit.

Lemme answer some of the complaints "against" our favorite Grump...

>"1. They say I took some scopes for article and never wrote any articles on any USO scopes. They say I promised two articles. Anyone here not see at least two articles written by me on USO scopes."<

Micky wrote many articles for USO, and they have been on this site, and several other sites that cater to the tactical community. After Micky got the golden shaft, he had ALL the articles pulled from these sites.

>"2.They say my real purpose for getting USO scopes was to give them to USO's competition so they could reverse engineer the USO scopes."<

This is more than silly... who was Micky working for??? The CIA?

Companies don't send in "spies" to get off the rack products for reverse engineering... they buy them in a goddamn STORE, over the counter. And WHAT, pray tell, are the secrets that Micky helped steal?

Any company that has propriety designs, has them protected by US patents. If they are NOT patented, and you put the product out on the open market, the designs are legally considered "public art" (a patent office term), and anyone can copy them.

Anyone that wants to "reverse engineer" a USO scope, can just go buy one (if you can endure an hour of John W's BS), take it back to the shop, and take it apart... without all the "spy" melodrama.

>"They further this with saying all I did was hurt USO's business by telling lies about them. Anyone on here more than one year going to say I did not try my best to help them get the company on track?"<

This is past credibility... Micky's endless defense of USO was almost the end of our friendship (as some of youse bums that have been here a few years can attest)... he defended them to the wall, in the face of growing evedence that USO engaged in very badd business prectices.

>"3. They say I have given away trade secerts. What secerts are they talking about and why would I have them?"<

Micky may have well given away ALL of USO's "secerts"... but what is a "secert"?? ;) - But if we're talkin' "Trade secrets", that laughable... they have no trade secrets... you just buy a USO scope and take it apart... if they didn't patent it, you can copy it!!!!!

<"4. They say I have information that could help them in a lawsuit against another scope company and want this information."<

Looks like USO is involved with ANOTHER lawsuit against a scope company... USO just lost two law suits with other companies - Unertl, and Armalite... cost USO about $400,000... (mebbe' more) with legal fees. That's a lottas scopes to sell to make up that kinda loss in a market where they have lost almost all of their reputation.

Any information that Micky has, that USO didn't give him, is MICKY'S PROPERTY... that's how us consultants make a living... we sell our knowledge to those that value it (or give it away if WE chose to). IF USO wants Micky's "information" let them write a friggin' check for it.

">If I give it to them they may drop the suit against me. I sure wish I knew what information I am supposed to have, since no other company has asked me for any information about USO scopes and I did not help any other company like I did USO."<

Micky has NOT been involved with any other scope companies.

5. They have said the amount they want is 32,000.00 some odd dollars for what they alleged I have done.

What a friggin' paultry sum! Dang Micky, I'd be embarrased to be sued for that little... I mean, if I was USO, I'd sue you for at least $1,500,000 just for being Dog ugly! And I'd add another mil to that because you was Magnetic, and rattled when you walked.

>"Give me some time and I will publish what ever I can so you guys can read my side of it. The bottom line is this is BS and just in my opinion an attempt to shut me up."<

JW has threatened to sue damn near everybody... if you haven't been on his "I'm gonna sue you" (or the "I'm gonna screw you) list, you ain't nobody ;) Some of the best people in the shooting industry are on John's "Poo-poo" list!

">Lawsuits are nothing new to them and they have threatened lawsuits against others who spoke up. Ask Pablito about that."<

Yuppers... I got's that tee shirt ;) but I was always careful to stay with the facts... when I said that his customer services was shit... I could fill a court room with unhappy USO owners.

>"Like I said before I have nothing to hide. I have done nothing wrong."<

Micky is dog ugly, but he's a good guy, and a straight shooter... but "DUMB as a stick" for staying with USO so long, in the face of their poor treatment of him.

>"One thing I will tell you is they have pressured other website to keep this from being discussed in an open forum. Now if they had nothing to hide why would they do that?"<

Because an open discussion of this, brings USO's business practices to light, and they DON'T want people to know how they operate.

There are several other's that were consultants to USO, and ALL of them that I personally know, have bailed out, and have had ALL of their written articals removed from shooting sites.

USO has burned a lot of bridges in the sniper/tactical community, and it's a very small community. We all know (or know about) each other.

>"Others on here say all they really want is to talk to me and then they would drop the suit. I have said if they drop the suit first I will answer all their questions. My lawyers say I can't talk to them until they drop the suit as it may hurt my chances of defending myself if they dont drop it. Got to go with the experts on this. My realm is shooting not legal things."<

This is rediculous... if you're being sued, you don't "do lunch" with your enemy.

Micky, Dude... "IF" - they drop the suit - AND they sign a statement releasing you from "any and all" further legal actions - AND agree to pay you for any information that you might have (in advance), THEN have lunch with them and talk... but wait 'til their check clears your bank first ;))

... But the end is in sight. I said last year (you heard it here on the Roster first) that I didn't think that USO would make it and would go under in the not so far future... well, word has it (from someone inside USO), that the end is in sight... things are badd there, and not getting better. Sales are not good - they just lost a large law suit - and "Doctor" John Williams was found out to be a fraud, and NOT have a PhD - but an "AA" degree... my ex secretary had more ed-ju-ma-ction than the phony "Doctor" had... their reputation has gone down the toilet.

This suit against Micky is just the last breath of a dying company, and the rampant rage and screams of a frustrated man that is seeing his company go down the tubes.

"Doctor" John Williams has pissed on a lot of people in the sniper community, and the scope industry, and it's coming around to bite him in the ass...

For a company to sue a consultant, because the consultant left them because of mistreatment, and them blame the consultant (Micky) for their loss in business, is the penultimate of pathethic-ness. If you gots USO stock, swap it for Enron, you'll come out ahead.

Mean while, the USO ST-10 is a turkey, and the M3-LR owns the field... Go Lupita - Go Premier Reticles - GO UNERTL!!!

ALAN...

You've had some time to take a break... get yo' raggity ass back here, ya' hear!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 14:22:22 (ZULU)

I recently had a discussion with a retail organization here on the east coast.

They did some follow up on a certain optics company behaving badly.

It seems they will be dropping the line.

Once you lose your honor and integrity, bad things happen.

medicjim86
Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 17:16:36 (ZULU)

Goodies for the Grunts......

Chris in OR had a 1000' spool of Khaki 550 cord delivered.

Garth at Leupold sent me a nice check. From his account, not Leupold's.

Mrs. SCLE49 apparently got incensed over Mr. SCLE49's contribution, because she was not included on the deal, and sent a very generous check. We have instructions to buy Goodies for the Girls. Will do......I'll leave the Child Bride in charge of that task, and then trust Joe on the distribution end.

We go shopping today, with the Child Bride (who is, Thank God, back home and spoiling me again in the manner to which I have grown accustomed) clutching a total of $758.38. You folks blow me away. We are both grateful and humbled by your generosity. God Bless you all.

Called the Chandler's today to see if they were waterborne yet. Talked to the Colonel, he said all was under control, but in the middle of the conversation there was a significant "THUMP", and he remarked that it sounded like a pretty big limb. Then went back to the conversation, which was a good one. Always enjoy talking to those folks.

Y'all stay safe!

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 18:04:56 (ZULU)

dmarc,

Got lucky today, and met up with another section of A Trp 1-17; Your box went to a deserving lot. I'd like to give you the young NCO's name and addy offline just to make it a bit more personal. Needless to say, he was a happy paratrooper--and will take north to his brethren "most" of it. I gave to these guys because they are gypsies, running security through RPG alley 24/7--they never get much a break lately. And they never see a hot meal, like 95% of us.

Sam M: Recieved three boxes today. I guess it's back to the camps...heheh. I think I'll go saturday--just to get as many boxes at one time to the troops.

I got screwed by a one-star today and wasted an afternoon waiting...waiting...but it was at this really cool mout site (door kicker electronic funhouses). It was bad-ass. Anteon makes the thing, and you'd have to see it to believe it. But the whole thing put my ass in a bind on "other" missions. I can't waste a day like that for nuthin...and the jerk went to a hotel instead. Dang...

Pete: CSA limited has the main contract--they provide the armorers. I doubt the pay would interest you though...it ain't much pay and it kinda shows, if you know what I mean.

SKS question: How the heck do you get the gas tube/ hand guard combo off the barrelled action? I flipped the little lever, but it is concave on the face of the pin, and the top edge hangs the tube before it clears. It is jammed tight in there. Any special tricks here or what??? Like I said, my rooskie is rusty---in more ways than one, apparently!

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 18:14:10 (ZULU)

Joe M- Glad you got the 3 boxes, 2 more are inbound, with profound gratitude. Sam M.

Seuss
Isabele, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 18:16:40 (ZULU)

Joe - SKS question answered via email

medicjim
Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 18:25:02 (ZULU)

Well all i saw this morning in the woods was 3 squirrels and some folks walking thier dogs, Had the Steiner guy on the phone today, he offered me the money back that i paid for the 7x50's (B/ST)and that if i paid the difference in price up to what some 7x50 night hunters would cost he would ensure i got some, hmm, that means i get my money back for the bino's i bought, which failed. that i would expect anyway, and if i pay the extra then i can get the night hunters, so basicaly id get the night hunters for 1/2 price. I told him it wasn't a good enough offer. The 7x50 B/ST are advertised as bieng built to military specifications (naturaly one assumes you are getting the same beast as the M22's, i imagine they are totaly water proof? anyone enlighten me on the Mil Spec of the M22's) and Wasserdicht, water proof. He said that they where only lightly waterpoofed, a light shower, or perhaps if one had them under a jacket they would withstand sweat getting in(his words) so i told him what he meant was Spritzwasserdicht, or shower proof, yes he said. so i explained that they where bieng advertised as waterproof and that they should then get thier advertising wording terms correct before misleading customers and that i had been told by Frankonia Jagd that the bino's had come from a military contract that had fallen through and where built to the same standards as the M22's. anyway, he is sending me some 7x50 night nunters and is having a think about what else he is going to offer me. Ok, time for a little humour:

Ive been watching the hurrcane Isabel on the news.... You guys ever wonder how come Hurricanes always get a womans name??? Well see its like thes:

The blow seldom and usualy take your house when they leave.

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 20:35:14 (ZULU)

Joe M.

That's great to hear. It pleases me greatly to know that stuff will get to some of the guys in the thick of things over there. Regrettably I hear even today we lost some of these fine men in a convoy attack, God bless their souls.

If the "goodies" we send over cracks a smile on just one of these guy’s it will have well been worth it. Please do shoot me the NCOs addy via e-mail. Did you happen to forward my note to him as well? Cameras?

Thanks for everything you’re doing and keep your head down,

Marc

drmarc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 20:41:45 (ZULU)

To All:

UPS delivered two large boxes that we are taking to the Post Office now.

They came from Caplugs, full of muzzle caps for M16's.

Due to Chris in Oregon's efforts, the Caplug manufacturer donated them........but Chris told me they were giving 2500.

Child Bride pulled the packing slip, and got a little leaky around the eyes (as did I).

There are 5000 of them, slip marked "For the Troops In Kuwait".

The cartons were shipped September 11.

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 20:46:41 (ZULU)

Actually, Pete, in the interest of gender equality, we have some years ago done away with only female names. Click on my name to get the current lists, which alternate male and female. As a person twice divorced, though, I take your point.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 21:37:43 (ZULU)

Pete L., are/were your Steiners the 7x50 Military Marine model???

Waiting out the arrival of the winds predicted to accompany the rain we're getting now..May build an Arc...Gathering the Bimbos to fill it may be a problem though...

Bruce Robinson...Broke 90 yesterday...Will try to make it to 100 using 22LR and head shots and a hand gun for stalking the chucks around buildings, fence lines etc....It aint prairie doggin, but it's OK...

outa here

Markwell
The soggy Alleghenes, WV, - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 22:07:18 (ZULU)

Joe,

Great to hear you hooked up with the 1/17, especially that it was A Trp. Give those guys my contact info, and hit me off line with any requests. I'm not trying to be exclusive or anything. I just remember being a red-headed-stepchild twice over (Ground Scout Troop, in a Air Cavalry Sqdn, in an Infatry DIV)

Can you re-visit your suggested-item list, and prioritize some for us? Has the list changed at all?

God-Speed to all you guys (and Gals, natch)

Old Bill

Bill McCormick
Bristol, TN, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 22:09:40 (ZULU)

Pete,

Final note on the 450 marlin. The 1895MR is the pistol grip stock unit with a 22" non-ported barrel. Shoots nice. I guess recoil could be called stout but not bad. Stout reminds me of a few gals I knew some years ago..... never mind, It'll get BKS started!

Doug

Doug Bourdo
K town, WI, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 22:19:56 (ZULU)

Joe M.

Mail.

Subj. SKS

Spud

spud
merced, Kalisocialistfornia, usa - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 22:42:45 (ZULU)

Lindy, shit man, thats all we need, a politicaly correct, homosexual hurricane...

Markwell...the Steiners are 7x50 B/ST which i was told stood for Bendeswehr/Strichplatte ( German Army-Military/Ranging reticle). The guy on the phone today told me that they weren't from some flopped military contract but where over production on a contract for some one in the states, i immediately though that maybe some one is passing these off as M22's , which is what i thought they where. I can't believe that the US military would buy bino's that are not totaly waterproof, so i asume the M22's are.So if you get a chance of some cheap steiners, and they have B/ST on the fromt of em (be they 7x50 or 8x30) then unless you live in the desert, beware !, i'd stick any optics in the future in a bath of water for a day just to test them.

Doug, thats the one i want.

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 23:12:08 (ZULU)

FatBoy -

Do you have current contact info. for the Turret Tagz listed in you Leupold M3 article? The phone number you listed is disconnected with no forwarding #. Thanks for the great article. Now if I can just find some Turret Tagz for my non-M3 scopes.

Scott Steele

SSReliance@aol.com

Scott Steele
Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 23:23:28 (ZULU)

Well folks, i'm heading off up north for the funeral, so i'll catch ya'all later.. Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 05:45:59 (ZULU)

Re: the Legal situation that one of our guys is in. Dont ya'll think it might be a good idea to refrain from talking about it on here since the feller that is pissing in our pals cornflakes probably monitors this place and might get some ideas or at least get more riled up?

Just a thought from my non-lawyer ass.

Out

Gooch
Friday, September 19, 2003, at 05:52:01 (ZULU)

drmarc: Uhhhh. Ummmmm. Well, your note is right here, in my hand. The box went without. That was a mistake on my part---I ran out the door and forgot to execute my checklist yesterday. To make up for that on the spot--I grabbed SGT G's addy in-country--and that email is inbound to you.

Gooch is right; Mike's situation is best left to offline emails for those with a need-to-know (re: guys with info to help). I'm sure we can AAR this publically once it's over, but we know at least once someone had to deal legally with stuff posted here.

I hate lawyers, but who among us with a divorce or three wouldn't? Heheh.

Word for the day: recalcitrant. As in, "the gas tube's release assembly is..." POS. I think it was assembled with the hammer. God knows what they did with the sickle...

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Friday, September 19, 2003, at 08:00:42 (ZULU)

Hey Guys,

Question re: AR cleaning.

I recall a couple weeks ago someone (was it Hockeyref?) posting about how they discovered a "miracle" chemical for cleaning the tough caked on carbon on an AR's bolt and bolt carrier. I remember them saying that they let it soak for like 15 minutes and after wards all the shit just wiped right off. What was it? I can't remember.

Thanks

Rich

Rich S.
Izzy-fied, - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 13:35:12 (ZULU)

Only thing I can say is, never tried a USO cause I couldn't afford too and thank God they didn't send me one for evaluation. The only good thing I ever heard about USO came from John Ferguson and Mike Miller. Can't believe they think their best advocate owes them money for advocating their product....Our own resident lawyer at the time here was allegedly unimpressed as well as others who had the means to buy and try it. My only thought about the thing was.."IF you build it big enough and heavy enough and high priced enough, anyone can build a good scope. I'm sorry to see anyone take a dive in this business world today but sour grapes won't help the situation and sueing your advocates ain't likely to reinstate your stature or ease the pain of failure much. I doubt seriously any court will be sympathetic to that. When they sent that scope to Mike for evaluation they opened themselves up to critical evaluation and speculation and any court anywhere will see it that way. IF "I" had ordered that scope you can bet your butt they would have expected me to pay right then or they'd have me in finiancial claims court right away. From that I assume they didn't expect payment or if they did a contract should state as much. IF all they expected was evaluation and an article they shot themselves in the foot if it comes out to something other than they want. I'm not on the jury so it don't really matter much what I think, but USO if you read this there are many people in the "community" who hate to see you fail but will damn you forever if you go through with sueing the only guy that really tried to help your product, I know it gives me a pause to think about all the things I've evaluated over the years here and other places.

Sorry guys but I ain't got a gag order yet, and I'm damn sure their lawyers don't want me on the stand for USO.

Bruce your doing a great thing. My company is a drop point and has a similar program but your one man, woman... effort is really commendable. I'm humbled by your patriotism and kindness. When I get around here I'll get your some contribution on the way. Been a little down as the ole ticker has been trying to take a crap on me.

The good news is, I don't feel much like posting and thinking so I'll let you guys have it for the most part.

Brogers
Friday, September 19, 2003, at 13:49:17 (ZULU)

Brogers,

Glad to hear you are contankerous enough to keep that ticker in line and hope you keep it that way for a long time to come. I for one have missed your posts.

Rich S.,

I don't remember the reference here but I seen this mentioned on many other shooting sites. GM Top Engine Cleaner, Part # 1050002, it's only about $6 a can from any GM dealer. It is used to remove the carbon from intake and combustion chamber so should work fine for your purpose. When used in shooting I have read about it being used straight as is or sometimes mixed with other oils such as Kroil or cleaners like ammonia for cleaning bores.

'lito,

Glad to see you back at the keyboard as well.

Later,

Byron
CA, USA - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 15:30:35 (ZULU)

Hi guys,

Been a while since I was here. Got a question or two for you all.

Anyone here know much about the USMC mod. 70 Winchester sniper rifles? If so, how to identify a real one?

Thanks for any info you have.

Semper Fi

Steve

steve
Kingsville , TX, USA - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 16:07:21 (ZULU)

Steve,

The "Death from Afar" series of books by the Chandlers has some good references and examples of Vietnam era model 70's. You may want to contact Brian Sain who posts on here, I believe he is working on a Vietnam sniper book and may be able to assist you as well.

drmarc

drmarc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 16:36:07 (ZULU)

BRogers, I hope you feel better soon and thanks for kind words

Gooch, way I see it I have nothing to hide. I am sure the lawyer for USO is watching all this also but last I checked freedom of speech existed. I am an honest A.H. and from what I have read I am accused of being the opposite. All I wnat is everything in the open. Like I said before I have done nothing wrong.

This whole scene reminds me of history and the poor Jews in WW2. Many sat on their hands because it was not them they other guys where taking out until it was too late.

Pablito/Catman, damm how many times I have had to eat crow when it came to your versus my views of USO? From now on I am making you my person I use for charachter checks on anyone I plan to do business with. We need to go shooting toget