Sniper Country Duty Roster

I recently got my Ar-15 Colt h-bar out of the safe to inspect for maint. and found a blue crystallization in the gas tube as well as in the bolt gas tube, it was oily “most likely” from break free did not find it any where else. I’ve not fired since May and cleaned w brake cleaner and clp--- left the weapon with a heavy clp coating in the safe. The humidity in my safe is about 20-30% the only other thing of comment in relation, was a very small area of light surface rust “despite heavy clp” on the bolt lug. The blue crystals were not adhering to the gas tube and did not seem to do any damage to the tube. I have never seen this and am wondering if any one has previously encountered this ?

J Hutchins
Monday, September 15, 2003, at 00:52:41 (ZULU)

BYRON

Thanks for the heads up on Jarheadtop. Racine Wisc. is only 2 hrs. from me. I sent an E Mail about 0600 this morning and had a phone call at noon, can't beat that and the prices, you saved me about $150.00

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 01:05:59 (ZULU)

John A.

You have E-Mail - NO Attachments !

Thanks,

BearMan

BearMan
Indy, Indiana, U.S.A. - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 01:10:01 (ZULU)

Thanks for the thoughts guys, yesterday was a bad day, as can be expected the whole family is devastated, as are all friends and neighbours.She was in a car with her friends and her friends boyfriend was driving. Another case of a young life wasted because some young idiot was driving to fast and lost control. I guess i can't judge that though because i was no different at that age, I guess a certain amount of recklesness comes with youth and that some of us are just lucky, but when innocent life is lost it is always a tragedy.

Dave Doc King, funny you should mention hunting, i could have sworn i saw a pig with your name on it in the woods the other day!and if your boy hunts i'm sure he'd like to come along too eh? and if you can jack up some hunting your end, i"ll fly over just for that buddy(any chance of accomodating Jon Beardsley too? we seem to have become a cross channel game sniping team).

Pete.

Peter Lincoln
D - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 07:06:11 (ZULU)

Bearman,

BTW, LW is a Lothar Walter barrel, I believe. If so, a damn fine choice for that rifle. Make sure it's at least a 1/11.25 twist or faster.

John

Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 11:30:36 (ZULU)

Peter

"i could have sworn i saw a pig with your name on it in the woods the other day!" Good, I see they're getting over that way too...there's a pile of them in Texas and Georgia waiting for me to show up again. My son's wife keeps him on a short leash when he's around so p[robably no pig hunting for him for a few years yet...newly married and they still haven't figured the sharing part yet I guess..

I have a few places here in the US to hunt...deer season (archery) just started today so I'm legally out of luck on firearms for a while (depredation is my usual shooting).

You're more than welcome to come over and hunt, Jon Beardsley too and most other folks for that matter. I have 2 extra bedrooms at the house and probably an extra vehicle for you to use if I can't come along for a day or two. If I can't get us on private land (I have a lot of private land available but it's often heavily hunted during the season(s)) we can go onto public (not too bad either...) the standard run-of-the-mill public hunters make better drivers than hunters and we can use their antics to push deer to us.) Weapons here locally are going to be little different... during deer firearms season(s) shotgun with slugs is normal but rifle is available too.

Back to work..

Another set of troop packages going out today... One to Major Joe and another to my son.

Dave "Doc" King
USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 12:22:54 (ZULU)

Shit Pete, thats bad news. Do you know how the lad and the family are taking it, other than bad? I'm truely sorry to hear that. Arseholes like the one who races up and down your street always seem to get away with it, then something like that happens to a young girl. Wheres the justice. Spoke to my boss I will have an e-mail inbound.

Doc, thanks for the offer. I may just have to take you up on that, if only to keep Pete out of trouble ;-). Thanks again

Jon

Jon Beardsley
Monday, September 15, 2003, at 13:16:11 (ZULU)

They are devastated Jon, turns out there were 3 cars racing and the guy who was winning was going the fastes and lost it on a bend, i know the bend in questing and there is a dip in the road that can easily make one of your rear tyres loose traction, i've had it happen to me at normal speeds never mind double the limit.The 3 in the rear of the car got thrown out as it went end over end, no seat belts i guess, one dead, one with a broken spine and the other one was lucky and had a soft landing in the field and only suffered bruising. This shit happens all the time, traffic control is always where it can make money for the local government and never in accident black spots (3rd death within 500m this year). And that little prat who lives down our road.. ive been reliably informed that when i'm not there he is still speeding down the road ( 30kmh zone and my guess is he is doing 70kmh), despite my .... hmm how do i put it? little chat with him the other week, well i guess i just didn't hit him hard enough.

Back to guns. I'm bedding the Parket Hale tonight, i am sure i got the mix wrong on that Devcon and thats why the oil broke it down, and i'm taking all my rifles down the range on wednesday, good old testing session.

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 13:36:10 (ZULU)

Pete,

Ever notice how it never seems to be the driver in these things. It happened here not to long ago. Two idiots with car loads of kids racing their "Fast and Furious" style cars on backroads. Lead car goes off the road, hits a bunch of stuff, rolls back into the street and gets hit by the other car. 16 year old female passenger didn't live long enough for the cars to slide to a stop. Both drivers are up for negligent homicide right now but that won't bring back somebody's little girl. We all did stupid things as kids but were either smart or fortunate enough to back off before someone got hurt. I don't think it'll ever change.

Murph

John Murphy
MILFORD, NH, USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 13:52:15 (ZULU)

U.S. Troops Run RPG Gauntlet with Guns and God

Sun September 14, 2003 07:37 AM ET

Cut and paste or click my name: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=reutersEdge&storyID=3439975

"TIKRIT, Iraq (Reuters) - Your average American soldier in post-war Iraq may want better food, more rest time and above all to go home, but the infantrymen out on night patrol in Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit have only one wish -- to get shot at.

The soldiers of the 1st Battalion, 22nd Regiment swear they have divine protection and say the easiest place to be attacked is in what they call "RPG alley."

. . .

"I feel like I could go out there with no protective gear," he said. "They could shoot a thousand rounds and they still would not kill me.""

Whoa fellas... whatcha thinking?

Joe, whats in the water over there?

~DA

DakotaAviator
K2, Uzbekistan - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 14:48:33 (ZULU)

Dennis..AKA Spud.

I had a visitor drop by my AO this weekend, it was Dee Turner. Him and the wife were on vacation and stopped by. We went out for supper and convinced them to spend the night.

We had a good visit, it was nice finally meeting him in person after e.mailing off and on for 5 years. Said he misses the matches and the guys. Its nice to know that the people you meet on here are just as damn nice in person as you imagine them to be.

Pat
Monday, September 15, 2003, at 17:25:35 (ZULU)

Murph, i guess the same shit happens all over the world, its a bitch each and every time, its just more of a bitch when its this close.

Do I bed the 7 rem mag tonight, or do i go hunting, thats the question i'm asking my self at the moment... sod it, i'll do both, go see if i can catch a deer before it gets dark, then go home and get the dremmel out,, hell if i'm quick i might even make the pub for last orders..

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 17:35:29 (ZULU)

>>Murph, i guess the same shit happens all over the world, its a bitch each and every time, its just more of a bitch when its this close<<

I'd say we average one every other month in my small area of coverage. Sorry this one hit so close to home Pete...

medicjim
Monday, September 15, 2003, at 17:39:32 (ZULU)

Thanks, Dirty Steve. You just had to go and tell Bobby about the skunk. I'll keep that in mind. You know, a GOOD spotter would have affected the outcome somewhat.........

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 17:46:32 (ZULU)

Gary K.,

I'm glad you were able to save money and this may sound strange but my intent was simply to pass on information so that you could make an imformed decision. This is a strange game we play. We ask questions and sometimes save money or time, sometimes spend more money but save time. Without the right information we sometimes save money now and later spend more money to replace or upgrade and end up spending more time in the process. I think I have been at both extremes.

Again, glad things worked out for you.

Pete,

I had my share of close calls as a youngster, both cars and motorcycles. Society sometimes turns a deaf ear to the needs of our youth. Things like drag strips are closed to build businesses or houseing, other tracks (circle or road courses) are closed for the same reasons. Street racing increases, kids die and everyone is scratching their heads. It is the same with gun violance as well, deny ownership, close ranges, don't teach gun safety in the schools or the homes. Then wonder why there are accidental shootings or rampage shootings.

Sorry about going sideways, must be something in the office air. It doesn't matter how they die when it is close to home. Pete, I know you have raised you son well so hopefully his friendship will help soften such a devistating blow to his friend and family.

Byron
CA, USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 17:47:46 (ZULU)

Sorry for such stupid questions, But I am finding out the more that I think that I am learning the more I realize that I don't know jack.

Is there a reason why so many zero their scope at 500 0r 600 yards? Is it just to stay inside 1 full rev. on their turret?

I am using the Tabasco SS and I have enough MOA. To go out a to 1K. When zeroed at 100. We usually shoot from 300-900. Using 175MK at about 2690 fps. Not a real 100 yd performer, As the groups don't get tight until 300-350. I can get 1/2 moa at 500 but not at 100. Trying to learn to use the scope. Most of the commercial books I have found just gloss over the set up and are more into range est. and wind dope, Which is a whole other subject. Trying to learn the shooting part, Not so much the sniper part yet, Need to crawl before the walk. Want to start coming out to the matches to shoot. But want the fundamentals down first. And I am starting into the Manually operated rifle bit in the USPSA. Thanks as always Keith

Keith Lucas
Monday, September 15, 2003, at 18:32:10 (ZULU)

Keith,

Who zero's their scope at 500-600 yards? I sure don't and I can't say I know anyone else that does. There might be some long range 50BMG shooters that do that because they've got a bunch of slope built into their bases and only shoot "way out there".

During Viet Nam the scopes used by American Snipers had no target dials on them so the snipers would zero at some extreme distance and then apply holds for various ranges (crotch, shoulders, knees, etc.). That is not the preferred solution. You want to dial in your range dope and hold POA/POI if you can with maybe a little bias or hold for wind.

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton, New York, USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 19:52:27 (ZULU)

Kevin,

I can see what you are saying, I could be reading very old info, The only hint as to why the 500 yd zero was to stay within 1 full turn up or down on the scope turret. It's hard to know what is bull and what is useful at my level. Thanks for your info. -Keith

Keith Lucas
Monday, September 15, 2003, at 20:23:21 (ZULU)

Range Report: Several months ago, when I was contemplating getting into this game, I heard good things on this site and others about the Winchester Model 70 Stealth, and I ordered one from my local dealer, who said it would be about 6 weeks, as they were not in production. A denizen of this site emailed me, and mentioned he had a NIB Model 70 HBV Stainless he was willing to part with, and did. So, I shot it, and now have about a thousand rounds through it. When the Stealth showed up, I put it, unpacked, in storage.

Back from Raton, where the HBV performed well, I thought that I ought to have a backup rifle, so I pulled the Stealth from storage last night and mounted a Nikon 5.5-16.5X44 I had sitting around on it - on a Badger base and in Badger rings, of course. When I degreased the action, I was not impressed with the bedding job, and cleaned up some sloppage with a sharp blade.

No matter - it shoots. After I did the "fire two, clean barrel" routine a few times, with Federal Match ammo, I fired a 5-shot group at 100 yards with the handload which works well in my HBV. The first group was .45 inches. That was probably a lucky fluke, as the second opened up to .65 inches. Not bad for a rifle with 20 rounds through the barrel. And that load is a Sierra 175 at 2700 or so fps. Who said those Sierra 175's don't group at a hundred yards?

It's nice, as the Chairman of the Department of Redundancy Department, to have two nearly identical rifles that shoot well. Now I can concentrate on improving the loose nut behind the bolt. The Nikon is going elsewhere, though, and a Leupold 6.5X20 Gen II is going on. I'll work up zeroes for both rifles with both scopes, so I can crossdeck the scopes between them. And one of them, probably the Stealth, is going to get a camo paint job this winter.

And thanks to Ken H. for the recommendation on the Bushnell Boresighter, which I used not only to get that rifle on the paper with the first shot, but also a 700 in an AI chassis belonging to another shooter out on the range who couldn't get it on paper. It works well!

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 20:39:20 (ZULU)

Rangefinders: Those of you with Leicas, do you like them for the money? I have only used a Bushnell 800. I am thinking of the Leica 1200.

Robert

tschiemer
Ark, USA - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 20:59:40 (ZULU)

Wes,

You got mail.

Topic Stealth 223

Spud

Dennis
me, Kalifornicateya, usa - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 21:07:24 (ZULU)

Pete,

mail.

Spud

Dennis
merced, Kalifornicateya, usa - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 21:17:23 (ZULU)

Pat,

Yep, he's definitely one of the good guys.

Spud

Dennis
merced, KA, usa - Monday, September 15, 2003, at 21:29:00 (ZULU)

Chuck, Game on for tomarrow. I will be at the Bat Cave at the prescribed time. And I didn't think any one needed a spotter for a 109 yd Skunk shot. Not my fault you didn't call for a range and just shot. Haha.

Andy's Dad, Darn good shooting. Quite impressinve.

Dirty Steve, Out.

Steve Dickerson
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 02:15:05 (ZULU)

Robert, The Leica LRF 1200 or 1200 Scan is the best one that the normal guy can purchase. Great customer service as well.

Michael
CA, USA - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 03:52:09 (ZULU)

Wes,

Good luck with the move. I'll give you a ring. What the hell happened to the Monday plan? That's what happens when we are both busy as hell.

Gooch,

Long time; 1996 if I'm right. Thanks for the thoughts and the help over the years. I hope what I've learned will pay off. As much as I hate to say it, I can't place SFC Couch though the name is familiar. 1-186 or 39th? Our rosters aren't complete yet and we are still waiting for a mob date. What's new, right? If you are still around Little Rock I'll buy you a beer next week. We're headed down for a pre-deployment train up. I bet you remember where to find us. Let me know.

Kevin Maries
OR, USA - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 07:07:36 (ZULU)

Wes,

Good luck with the move. I'll give you a ring. What the hell happened to the Monday plan? That's what happens when we are both busy as hell.

Gooch,

Kevin Maries
OR, USA - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 07:08:17 (ZULU)

Oh swell. Sorry guys.

Kevin Maries
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 07:10:53 (ZULU)

Pete,

I usually do the bedding early evening and then get up early to check the screws... Can also stay up all night with a few fingers of scotch and baby sit the job!

Saw a newspaper on the train this morning refering to Schottishes Fussball. Couldn't read the article, just saw the headline, is this Rugby auf Deutsche?

Marc

Marc Palmer
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 10:21:50 (ZULU)

Spud.. email to me? which addy did you use, i'm at work so you need to use that one..

Well my shift relief was late last night so i was away behind time, dashed home grabbed some scran and got changed,off to the woods, stalked into my favourite tree stand, hadin't been up the tree 10 mins when i heared some deer tiptoeing through the brush behind me, by then it was dark and the Doctor Optic 10x25's just wont cut it after about a half hour before dark, anyways i couldn't get a clean shot at the deer, which i presume where a doe and 2 kids. I sat up the tree stand waiting, i did think i caught the odd distant grunt or squeel of a pig, then i began to hera something in the under growth rooting about, there i was, rifle at the ready, crunch crunch on the leaves, twigs snapping, russle russle, i had the rifle shouldered for what must have been an hour, and then came the dark shape out of the shadows into the moon light.. it was a hog alright, a hedge hog (do you have them in the states? like a porcupine but different), damn if it wasn't the biggest fattest hedge hog i ever saw, it was as big as a socker ball, had to chuckle at the little sod.. There was a definate chill in the air, signaling the onset autumn, i even began to shivver. I decided i'd had enough and got out of the stand, and carried my plasic corn drum over to the feeder and began to top it up, i rolled the feeder back and forth a bit to drop some corn on the ground, and them went to take the drum back to its hideing place, i hadn't got to the stand when a herd of pigs hit the feeder behind me, others where behind the stand, i managed to get up the stand and almost got a pig in the scope, i guess one of them must have scented me because in a flash they all vannished. I waited and waited, hearing grunts, snorts and the odd squeel, i figured they knew i was there so wouldn't risk the feeder again, sod it i thought, maybe i can stalk them with this moonlight, it will be hard without my big bino's, but i'll give it a go, so off i went, in the direction i thought the pigs had gone, i'd gone a couple of hundred yards when i heared pigs moving, then some grunts, so i followed them, did some gruntinmg my self and stalked into the pigs, i was stalking blind basicaly just homeing in on the noises they where making, i followed them through the woods, occasionaly catching a glimpse of a dark shadow moving here an there, judgeing from the direction they where heading i fugured they where making for some oak trees, it has been windy this week and i expected there to be acorns on the ground, i figured i'd bet my chances on the oaks at the side of the little meadow about 300m from the intersection of the neares two track, so i quit following the pigs and did an out flanking manouver, arriving at the southern egde of the meadow just as the pigs got under the oaks, the meadow is only maybe 20m by 100m, the pigs where in the bushes under the oaks about 15m away, i could hear them but not see them as the trees cast a shadow, then i saw the shape of a pig appear onto the meadow about half way along, then another, there where 2 pigs mow clear to see in the moonlight about 50m away, but i was unsure of a back stop for the bullet and with a camp site bieng only maybe 700m away i needed to make a safe shot, i stalked along the edge of the trees on the south side of the meadow, trying to stay well under the shadows, occasionaly a pig would grunt what seemed to be a challenge, i grunted back and shuffled my feet in the leaves (they seem to be able to tell human foot steps but if you shuffle they take you for a pig) anyway, they calmed down so i moved closer, i neded to get a better angle on them. Then something spooked the ones on the meadow and they rejoined the others under the oaks. I took the opertunity to cover the last 20m i needed and i was in a good postition, after maybe 5 minutes i could see a snout venturing out of the shadows, testing the air, the wind was in my favour and one then another pig stepped into the moonlight, i shouldered the rifle and followed one pig on its meanderings back and forth across the meadow, then it presented a nice broad side and i gently squeezed the trigger. The pig dropped , gave a couple of kick and lie still, the other pigs dispursed in all directions. I chambered another round and proceeded towards the pig, rifle at the ready. The pig was dead, a hole through both shoulders and its lungs just a pulp. A young dry sow, maybe a year and a half old. I went and got the car. Let the dog find the pig and then got to grips with gralloching and loading it into the car.

On the way to the cools store at the Forrestry commission office i cam across a police road block, they where stopping traffic that was around the airport, looking for suspected terrorists and the odd drunk driver i expect. I pulled in as signalled, I put my window down and the cop shon his maglight in, you should have seen the guys face when he saw that i was covered in blood up to my elbows. "I have a hunting rifle on the rear seat Officer"i said, "I've just been hunting and shot a pig, if you take a look in the back you will see it"the cop shon his light on the rifle and then on the pig, he asked my name and wished me a good night and off i went to hang the pig.

Well a successfull night, i didn't get my 7mm bedded, didn't make last orders at the pub, but the stalk was exciting and successfull.

Pete L

Peter Lincoln
D - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 11:11:31 (ZULU)

Marc , now what kinda bedding would that be buddy? I think the square heads call rugby rugby, but who knows. You get a look at that stutzen yet?

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 11:14:49 (ZULU)

PeterL,

That prayer went "higher." Seems prayers for the survivors are getting all too frequent. I asked God to give the lad some answers and hope in his grief. Rats...I still can't deal with it when it is the kids' bearing the weight. Some things are just too heavy for our children to face.

Dave, most of the ECUs (airconditioners) we got work the other way too. Believe it or not, heaters will be in demand soon enough--if only for a few nights here and there. With all the bugs, that may be the hot ticket for keeping health around these parts (pun intended).

Speaking of bugs, got nuked by one over the weekend. Spent the last thirty six hours in a blissful coma. Steroids and codeine made for a nice R & R. Unless everyone is messing with me, it is Tuesday and Monday never happened. Heheh. I feel better, still know I got knocked low, but better.

Recieved packages from Johnny McF (TN) and Bruce's registered. I built 3 company care boxes by cross load; and sent them out with two CSMs today. Infantry, 82d and 1 ID. They'll do the right thing (I know both from the duece days) and only the young front liners will get this. I'm sidelined for another day or two with the lungs full of fluids--enough to make me follow the sawbone's advice for once!

Wes: .223 Stealth: Mine is a Wednesday riffle. I got a second for the wifey; and her's is even better. They don't much care for 77s, but they print the hell out of the lighter boolits. I guess a handloader could really wring some groups out of these, I use factory fodder and have zero complaints. Excellent chuck guns.

Geoff, I'll be in town about 3 OCT-18 OCT for the birth thingy. What seasons are open--I forgot my reg (heheh). I'm thinking BP or archery, maybe turkey. Pheasants for sure. Let me know.

John Murph: Same thing on my rural route. Tragedy from hell, two families devastated. Only here it was 4 girls never to see their 17th birthday.

DA: The BGs hit the tail, not the tip of the spear, that article is the frustration venting.

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 14:08:08 (ZULU)

Gents:

Need some info:

There's this SVD Druganov, Arabic markings translated "training"--it has a red plastic end cap affixed to the pistol grip. There is this nice big hole (1/8-5/32") drilled horizontally through the chamber right at the case shoulders. Otherwise, this thing is fully functional and brand damned new. This one is USSR made, near as we can tell built in 85 (our russian is rusty). It is 99% condition, a real keeper (errr, for a museum).

Only problem is all the weapon guys are up north, and none of us know what else to look for. It appears that a new barrel will make this thing functional. No one here has ever seen a hole drilled like this (and I'd kinda remember something that obvious even 12 years ago!).

Anyone ever seen one of these? The drilled hole was a manufactured deal, the blueing is inside the cut, and the chamber was deburred.

Someone help me out here?

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 14:21:39 (ZULU)

Pete,

You bed your way and I'll bed mine!!!!!

Got the MS stutzen in my hands last week at the range in Esslingen. The metal is in very nice condition but the stock has some significant character. Stock is not cut, the pad was just added after the butt plate was removed. One slight problem, the front base is dovetailed into the receiver about 1mm. A saddle type base was soldered to the front ring and then the dovetail cut through the base and the ring. It is surely safe and professionally done years ago but it is still cut and I don't really want one with the cut. One other issue is the caliber, not sure if it is a 6.5 X 54 or a 6.5 X 57. Could be either but there is not any markings visible to say which and in the early 60's both were made.

Have you noticed Frankonia Jagd has M. Nagant sniper rifles for sale? Looked at a few that were matching numbers and in new condition. My source says they are Arsenal rebuilds of regular 91/30s done in the 50's and then placed in storage until now.

On Wednesday I shot 100 rd of 9mm Mak from a Steckin MP. The trigger is not good but with the stock attached the gun will shot right small groups at 25m. This is one of those guns converted to semi only that are selling now for 500 Euro. The gun is ugly as a Darmstadt chicken and heavy to boot but in one of the matches shooting paper targets the accuracy of the thing along with 20 rd magazines might be the trick. There was a good article about these things in either DWJ or Visier about 1 or 1 1/2 years ago.

I'm now arguing with the Germans about my need for a sport pistol beyond my two authorized hunting pistols. They don't want to recognize me being a sport shooter as well and say the other two should meet my needs. Have you fought this battle? Maybe you are in a different category since you are half-human (Brit) versus us non humans (US or any other non W. European)

Gotta go get some sleep... spent a good part of the night chasing a pig that was hit by a car near Renningen last night.

Marc Palmer
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 15:14:53 (ZULU)

Joe , thanks.. what you seem to have there is a training aid, used for instructional purposes, i saw some come back from gulf 1 and they ended up as mess wall hangers, saw some AK's and some RPK's and i even remember an RPG all "de activated"like that, my guess is that the firing pin will be shortened too and possibly some part of the locking mechanism may be removed, lugs, whatever. I don't know for sure, but this often was done to weapons that where shot out, it bieng cheaper to purchase a new rifle than have the old one repaired, the hole will be neatly machined and the chamber de-burred to enable use(functioning) with DP rounds(inert), if you imagine, the working weapons are needed on the front line, drill purpose (DP) or instructional weapons can be used for training, you don't need a Dragunov(or whatever) that actualy shoots to practice holds, sling technique, loading, unloading and stoppage drills and the non firing part of basic marksmanship principles or even bayonet practice or rifle drill.The Brit army used to(and probably still do) use scimilar things for instruction and training in training depots, due to constant stripping and assembling, stoppage drills and the general abuse that raw recruits dish out this means actual combatant weapons are not abused and we also had ones with lots of bits cut away to show the workings and we used these extensively on Armourers courses ( i remember seeing an AI sniper rifle at the IWA this year that was a cutaway instructional purposes piece) to show how things work, what we did was instead of blueing or parkerising the edges of the machined out sections we would paint them red, and a yellow DP would be stencilled on the stock some where, the flash hider would be painted ... yellow(no that was blank firing barrels) i think we use red also. Certainly we had a DP or instructional version of every firearm used by the British and commonwealth armed forces and also even had the same thing in instructional anti tank, mortar artillery and tank pieces.I guess the Navy and Airforce had thier own gadgets like this too) plus several others from friendly and enemy nations (so we knew how to use them and repair them should we have too). My guess is that you could probably easily get the piece firing again, eastern block origin training purpose weapons never seemed to be deactivated to the standards that they where in the west, i guess the powers that be in the west where shit scared of the DP guns bieng re- activated and used for illegal purposes. If you have your unit armourer check out the thing, i expect he will be able to tell you exactly what it needs to get it on the road again.

Marc, i haven't seen the nagants, an enfield No4Mk1 T is first on my list. Ref the sport / target shooting stuff with pistols, if you join a club then there isn't much they can do but authorise you, failing that get a collecters permit, its damn ridiculouse, when you think about it, its us that gave the germans back the right to privately own weapons after the war and now the bastards do everything they can to prevent us from not owning them now. My theory is that if you've bothered your ass to do the damn hunter course, then providing you've behaved yourself to date and have propper storage then you should be able to have what the hell you want, i mean shit, you can have 2 pistols, thats 1 for each hand, how much more mayhem are you gonna cause if you have another pistol or two, what you gonna pull the trigger with on the 3rd gun? your dick? they are just bieng petty and a pain in the ass..

Darmstadter Chicken, laughed me ass off, never mind the chickens buddy, there are some mean looking sheila's here, frighten the hell out of me in the disco. And you supposed to shoot the pigs , not run em down in your jeep..

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 16:12:03 (ZULU)

Pete,

Thanks, good info. Our armorer is a book worm civie guy--I know more than he does about damned weapons, which ought to scare ya all!

The firing pin is full length and new, as are all the parts except the barrel.

The rudimentary demill is this thing's ticket home. Yep, wall mount. Curiosity got me thinking this thing could be returned to duty, as it were. I'll pass this along--training, demilled...the arabic translation told me as much---but the lack of any serious demil was strange. I am used to the army's plugged barrels and welds. Punching the chamber seemed a bit wimpy, so I had to ask...

Now to figure out the SKS pile in cosmoline....:))

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 17:40:25 (ZULU)

Pete said:

>>>you can have 2 pistols, thats 1 for each hand, how much more mayhem are you gonna cause if you have another pistol or two, what you gonna pull the trigger with on the 3rd gun? your dick? <<<<

I'd stick with nines...a .45 might knock an inch or two off; an then you'll be crying for more gun restrictions yourself. :)))

Gitt-it boyz, I sed a funny!

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 17:46:55 (ZULU)

Gent's, this is too good not to share, it is from a liberal socccer mom, who happens to be my first cousin. For me, it is the patriotism that only is found in the heart. If she gets it, there is hope...

>>>For me it still really feels like it happened yesterday - (husband) thinks this is because I was in the WTC buildings so often and knew some of the dead, and he may be right, but it was so jarring. The images of the people jumping out the windows to escape the fire are the worst. My throat gets tight every time they show that; I can't help but wonder if I knew any of them.

I was working in NY during the first terrorist attack on the WTC in Feb 1993. I wasn't working in the WTC building, but the train I took from Trenton NJ let me out in the concourse at the bottom of the WTC every morning. The buildings were still intact but the train stations beneath the buildings were pretty gutted. It was a horrible wake-up call to what the terrorists were trying to do. In the year preceding 9/11, with the bombings of the U.S. Embassies and the USS Cole, I was wondering in the back of my mind how much worse it was going to get. And ever since 9/11, I've been almost purple with rage. All I've wanted is an exacting revenge. You are right about the terrorists wanting nothing less than to convert the U.S. into an Islamic state. And on a personal note, to realize that al Qaeda hates me even more than the average U.S. man simply because I'm female - how do you intelligently respond to that?

I worry about our kids too - they already have seen more in their short lives than we did at the same age. B* (oldest son) is a real "people person" and upon seeing what had happened he crawled under his bed and cried really hard. He simply couldn't understand why anyone would fly a plane - on purpose - into a crowded building. I think it hit a little too close to home for B* too. I had been in Boston only the week before, and only ten days before all of us had flown out to San Francisco (where one of the planes was headed) and back from L.A. (where three of the planes were headed). D* (younger son) was a lot quieter, but he drew a picture in his school journal of the two towers burning. Underneath he wrote " I feel very sad for the people who died". He also wrote "My mom is sad. My mom is brave". This was supposed to be D's private journal but his teacher showed it to me. I can't tell you how heartbroken I was. It was a week before I could even compose myself enough to talk to him about it. Turns out he thought I was brave because I work in one of the Liberty Towers. One and Two Liberty Place are twin towers and are the tallest buildings in Philadelphia (though not nearly as tall as the WTC buildings were). We figured out together that I didn't really have anything to worry about since I'm on the 8th floor. He felt better after that. But I didn't - I just want all of al Qaeda annihilated. So much for my maternal side, huh?<<<

I'd say that is as good as it gets. I bet there's alot of registered dem's who think the same...we'll see next year. I'm proud of this woman...and I hope she forgives me for sharing, even the edited version...

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 17:56:19 (ZULU)

Joe M.

You have mail through SCDR.

JLU

Joe Udelhofen
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 18:34:31 (ZULU)

Do any of you gentlemen know who sells loopy 2.5X8 VariXIII mildots cheap?

CDC'
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 18:47:30 (ZULU)

I had just read Joe Mahons comments about his recent medical condition and ran across this:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34608

Mk4
Texas, Remember 9-11, United States of America - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 19:04:35 (ZULU)

Cut from the article MK4 posted....

>>But an alarming outbreak of more than 100 suspected pneumonia cases among Gulf War II veterans serving in Iraq and southwestern Asia has drawn the ire of Congress<<

I wonder what the normal occurance rate for suspected pneumonia is in the local population? Maybe three to four times that rate?

medicjim86
Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 20:26:04 (ZULU)

Joe,

What Pete said... drilling a hole in the shoulder is a quick and easy way to demil a weapon for drill and training purposes. I have several P-17 Enfeilds with a hole in the shoulder and a piece of steel welded into it. Other than that, everything else is in working order. A new barrel and it's ready to go. How much they do depends on who they are and how aggressive they feel when they get the order to demil. And sorry to hear about the tradgety back home. I used to do my best to curb the youth in the area I worked with little success. As long as there are cars we'll probably be deliving the bad news to someone. Fortunately I never had to deliver that news and will do what I have to keep it from happening. Stay safe over there and keep up the good work.

Murph

John Murphy
Milford, NH, USA - Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 22:08:33 (ZULU)

Pete;

You still shooting that .450 Marlin? I was considering getting one. How's the fit, finish, and performance? I bet it has some stout recoil.

Savage update;

I recently replaced the "rubbermaid" factory stock on my 10FP. I bought one of the Bell & Carlson Duramax stocks. It is a vast improvement feel wise. It came with a Pachmyer(sp?) decelerator pad (nice) and a textured finish.

It needed to be worked over slightly as the barrel channel went to the left and there were some casting build up in the trigger and magazine recesses. There are some issues I thought they could have done better on. The trigger guard recess has only the hole for the rear action screw. The rear guard screw hole has to be made yourself. Also, it only has two swivel studs. Neither are difficult to handle, but I expected the maker to have done that simple work.

All in all, it is a good replacement for the crappy factory stock. It is quite rigid and more comfortable. Cost was under $100.

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 00:42:23 (ZULU)

Gents And Ladies:

It just keeps on getting better.

Generous check from Richard in FL, and a box of jerky and AA batteries from Chris in OR. Safeway Store #353 also kicked in on that package.

Child Bride gets back tomorrow (Thank God! I'm getting tired of taking care of myself!) and Thursday we'll hit Wally World and the Smoke Shop on the Rez, with $633.38 in her hot little hands. Y'all have never seen a woman grin until you've seen her buyin' stuff for the troops!

Thanks to all of you. And thanks to Joe.......you keep yourself healthy, you hear? Anything happens to you, I'm back to just one job.......

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 02:24:17 (ZULU)

Heard from my lawyer today. The USO lawyer says they wont drop the suit and wanted a sworn statement form me before this went further. Well HOGs my lawyers say I have no choice but to fight and thats what I am going to do.

This is a BS suit by USO and I wont fold because they have a lawyer. I have two laywers myself now.

Duty

Honor

Country

and no false claims of being a Doctor here.

Undude/Mike

MikeMiller
CA, - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 02:36:52 (ZULU)

Gents,

Finsished our move this morning. Spent the day getting odds and ends. Picked up wifes new vacuum. New microwave is on order.

Think I worked out harder the last three or four days than I have in a long time. Muscles say ouch!

We are in, ensconced, in our new home. Wife is ecstatic. Me...? Just sore and tired. Expecting the bills for her remodeling over the next year or two...hey, maybe I DO owe myself a new Winchester Stealth!

I'm using my stepson's computer just to get on line. Looks like we'll be living out of boxes for a week or two. Still have to bring household items out of storage, but can do that at our leisure.

Back to work tomorrow...I need the rest.

Kevin, Thought you were out of the loop for the next week or two shooting wise. As for our move...we packed the majority of items on the 14th and moved them. Back for a final load the 15th and to clean the house. Today...turn in rental vehicles and try to make heads or tails out of the ensuing chaos.

Hope all is well with you.

Mike, sorry to hear about the continuation of the USO lawsuit. Sounds like someone is grasping at straws and is going to make everyone else miserable. Good luck

Roster Hogs: If you want our new address and phone number hit me via e-mail. Won't publish it here for obvious reasons.

Thanks for the input on the Stealth .223's, folks.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 03:07:04 (ZULU)

Mike Miller:

Not to get into a legal discussion on a shooting board, but what's his basic beef as stated in his complaint? Mind if I ask?

Hank
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 03:34:10 (ZULU)

I vaguely remember someone posting a source for action screws for Winchester Model 70 short actions that were either hex drive or square drive. I'd sure like to replace the Phillips drive screws that came with mine. A search of the Brownell's catalog doesn't turn anything up, and the search function here turns up way too many pages to look at. If anyone remembers that source, please let me know. Thanks!

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 03:36:46 (ZULU)

Lindy,

I did a search over on Snipersparadise.com and found a guy that had the same problem you described. He replaced the screw with a hex head from Brownells Catalog. - Yes, your memory is correct!........

Hope this helps,

BearMan

BearMan
Indy, Indiana, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 04:02:40 (ZULU)

Bearman: Thanks. I sure couldn't find those screws doing an online search of the Brownell's web site. I guess I'll just have to call them.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 04:23:25 (ZULU)

Lindy,

The screws in Brownells are made by B-square, I didn't see them on the web site either but found them the old fashioned way. Brownells part number: 122-505-670.

Or you can get them from B-Square,

http://www.reliablehost.com/bsquare/screws.html

Go almost all the way to the bottom of the page.

Rob Opp

Robert Opp
Jamestown, ND, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 04:35:11 (ZULU)

Someone else tipped me off that B-Square has them, and for other rifles than the Winchester. Click on my name for the link. Price even includes a wrench. Way cool!

Man, you gotta be fast around here. Rob, Bearman, thanks for the help - two sets on order.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 04:36:42 (ZULU)

Jody,

With all of Pete's hunt stories & talk of the 450 marlin, I got me one a short while back. Got the 1895MR model. Recoil is not too bad. Haven't worked up any butt-kick loads yet. Seems the factory stuff does a surefire job. Hornady 350 gr jacketed round nose groups under 1" at 50 yards unsupported. Certainly good enough for huntin. Just took a near 400lb black bear boar a couple weeks ago in Manitoba. One shot, one kill. Bruin only went 12 yards.

Back to workin & lurkin

Deputy Doug

Doug Bourdo
K Town, WI, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 04:48:45 (ZULU)

Pete,

"And you supposed to shoot the pigs , not run em down in your jeep.."

You kill em your way, I'll do it mine!

Wasn't sure if you knew the chicken thing, but then again...

Marc Palmer
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 08:28:45 (ZULU)

Marc W: Received one heavy box! Gotta tell the story though: Mail guy for this side of town is an old fella of a Staff Sergeant with an "Americal" Combat Patch (yeah, a Vet from a real ass-kicker of a war), well, he is doing his part once more, has a clearance, NG status or maybe active in the IRR or retired roles, but he's here now; and that's just too cool, doing the courier thing. I always hit him up for advice; he's forgotten more about surviving hostile fire than any of us newbies will ever know! So he comes in today, just bathed in sweat, (he calls me MAJ Joe), he says, "damn ya sir--your gunna be the death o' me yet--come git yer box off the street..." We're marshalling some trucks out front, so he had to park way up the road. I follow him out and retrieve this big ol' box. (now I'm sweating my butt off)--and he says, "God bless ya for what yer all doin'-- but I hope they ship your ass up the pike soon...my back can't take it anymore!" He meant it too. Hahahaha.

This, just in time for some paratroopers heading in to the fray. I'll deliver tomorrow. Thanks, Marc (next time consider two small boxes, eh?)

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 09:22:16 (ZULU)

Mike,

FWIW: I was looking into switching glass when I first came here, and considered USO or Nightforce. We had a lively discussion as I recall, and the bottom line was the consensus of overly large OBJ's on the NF; and overly complicated and unreliable ordering procedures followed by shitty (not merely bad, but shitty) customer service with the USOs. Since all advice was first hand and specific in the horror, I scatched USO (and pocketed some change) and decided to stay Loopy even though the NSX was tempting. I may yet get some NF glass, if I ever follow Fatboy down the path to 6.5 nirvana. But I'd never ever take a USO scope---not after what I learned of them right here.

You go. Get some! Email me offline. I'd like to pledge some support for you, should it get uglier.

Joe M.

Mike, no shit--I want to help...

Joe Mahon
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 09:33:33 (ZULU)

Hey Joe, glad the "big box" made it to you; I guess I got carried away! :) Hope the stuff will put a smile on the face of some of the guys. You be sure to rummage through there and see if there is anything you may want. I'm working on another box right now; let me know if you need anything specific. Did you read my note(cameras)?

Keep your head down,

Marc

Marc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 12:53:46 (ZULU)

Marc,

Gotta admit, the cigars caught my eye. But this one box is going to the troops et-al; no poaching on my part. I'll get a local KMOI agent to bring me another pile of cubanos if I run low. I have resources that our boys do not. Bruce's jerky was a whole different matter though...heheh. Camel just ain't the same...

I'll pass the note on to the Command Sergeant Major of whatever infantry battalion is moving out next. This will definately boost morale battalion wide. Ha! I'll do it in front of his First Sergeants just to keep him honest too!

Joe

Joe Mahon
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 13:11:42 (ZULU)

I received this last night,it's worth looking at. Sorry I could not make it a link, just copy and paste.

http://www.inlibertyandfreedom.com/Flash/heroes.swf

Mike M:

Sorry to hear about your troubles with USO.

TonyM
FL, US of A!!!! - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 13:49:15 (ZULU)

Joe,

>>>>>Marc W: Received one heavy box!<<<<<<

Not sure whether you're addressing me (since I'm Mark W) or Marc P from Kentucky.

Actually the box that I sent wasn't that big, it just got REAL heavy only after filling it with paperbacks, batteries, hard candy and then I used some animal crackers and a couple of brand new Cabela catalogs for stuffing. I do remember the shipping wasn't cheap but well worth our troops getting it.

But....there wasn't any cigars in mine ;)))

Mk4
Texas, Remember 9-11, United States of America - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 14:15:23 (ZULU)

It seems we have an overabundance of Marc's on here! :)

Marc Williams

AKA: drmarc

drmarc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 14:30:14 (ZULU)

Oops.

My mistake. You know there was a notice sent out a while back on the Roster that there were soooo many Mark/Marc's on the DR that any male children born to any of the Roster Hawgs be named anything BUT....... Hehe.

To Sweetie and all those in the path of Isabel. STAY SAFE!!

Mk4
Texas, Remember 9-11, United States of America - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 15:11:17 (ZULU)

This should apply to all here: Makes you think how we did make it.

People over 25 should be dead.

To the survivors:

According to today's regulators and bureaucrats, those of us who were kids in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's probably shouldn't have survived.

Our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paint. We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets, and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets. (Not to mention the risks we took hitchhiking.)

As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.

Riding in the back of a pickup truck on a warm day was always a special treat.

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle. Horrors! We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle, and no one actually died from this.

We ate cupcakes, bread and butter, and drank soda pop with sugar in it, but we were never overweight because we were always outside playing.

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the street lights came on.

No one was able to reach us all day. No cell phones. Unthinkable.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then rode down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem.

We did not have Playstations, Nintendo 64, X-Boxes, no video games at all, no 99 channels on cable, video tape movies, surround sound, personal cell phones, personal computers, or Internet chat rooms.

We had friends! We went outside and found them.

We fell out of trees, got cut and broke bones and teeth, and there were no lawsuits from these accidents.

We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate worms, and although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes, nor did the worms live inside us forever.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's home and knocked on the door, or rang the bell or just walked in and talked to them.

Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team.

Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment.

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law. Imagine that!

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and problem solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.

We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.

And you're one of them!

Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors?

JLU

Joe Udelhofen
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 15:31:18 (ZULU)

The offers of contributions are great guys. The offer means alot to me but right now I dont want you guys to send me any money. I prefer to fight this with my funds and not yours. As to it getting uglier than it is I hope not.

Why I cant go into all of whats going on, as its better they get served with my response and other legal papers before anyone on here knows about it. I can tell you some things they alleged in the complaint against me:

1. They say I took some scopes for article and never wrote any articles on any USO scopes. They say I promised two articles. Anyone here not see atleast two articles written by me on USO scopes. I never helped another company copy any USO product.

2. They say my real purpose for getting USO scopes was to give them to USO's competition so they could reverse engineer the USO scopes. They further this with saying all I did was hurt USO's business by teling lies about them. Anyone on here more than one year going to say I did not try my best to help them get the company on track?

3. They say I have given away trade secerts. What secerts are they talking about and why would I have them?

4. They say I have information that couold help them in a lawsuit against another scope company and wnat this information. If I give it to them they may drop the suit against me. I sure wish I knew what information I am supposed to have, since no other company has asked me for any information about USO scopes and I did not help any other company like I did USO.

5. They have said the amount they want is 32,000.00 some odd dollars for what they alleged I have done.

Give me some time and I will publish what ever I can so you guys can read my side of it. The bottom line is this is BS and just in my opinion an attempt to shut me up. Lawsuits are nothing new to them and they have threatened lawsuits against others who spoke up. Ask Pablito about that. Like I said before I have nothing to hide. I have done nothing wrong.

One thing I will tell you is they have pressured other website to keep this from being discussed in an open forum. Now if they had nothing to hide why would they do that?

Others on here say all they really want is to talk to me and then they would drop the suit. I have said if they drop the suit first I will answer all their questions. My lawyers say I cant talk to them until they drop the suit as it may hurt my chances of defending myself if they dont drop it. Got to go with the experts on this. My realm is shooting not legal things.

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
CA, - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 15:33:58 (ZULU)

Joe, one thing if you really want to do me a favor just get yoyurself home safe and in one piece. That will make me happy. Think about you and other guys in harms way everyday. My shit is nothing. I am sitting back drinking cold ones, granted with a bum leg, for medical purposes daily. I know what you are living like and my heart goes out.

Now if anyone wants to help, just contact me off line if I have helped you on a USO purchase, advice or problem. I just want the truth nothing else.

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
CA, - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 15:56:03 (ZULU)

Mike M.

Like I said on the "other" forum before it was deleted; I really hope things work out for you. I've had to deal with an unwarranted suit before myself and know the emotions and aggrevation involved. The only SOB's that do well in a lawsuit are the attorneys! Remember there is a little known suit the unjustly accused can initiate called "Malicious Prosecution" that allows you to return the favor. It's difficult to win but it can be done, I have. :)

I've read the Unertl and Armalite suits and settlement agreements on the Unertl website, very interesting reading.

drmarc

drmarc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 16:01:50 (ZULU)

KEVIN MARIES,

How are you doing? Long time no hear! Good to see that you are still around and posting!

I will be up at Little Rock for the Wilson match next month. Maybe you will still be there and I will see you there!

SFC Pete Carpentier jr TXNG
C.C., TX, - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 20:23:29 (ZULU)

To all of those in the path of Isabel ... welcome to the party (maniacal laugh).

Seriously though, throw a PFD (lifejacket) in the car if you ain't leaving.

brian k. sain
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 21:41:14 (ZULU)

Lindy and others about the Winnie action screws;

They LOOK like a philips, but they are a kinda strange-assed thing that uses a #2 Square drive. They suck.

B-Square DOES make an allen set to fit. They are a little soft.

But they work a whole lot better...

Spud

Dennis
merced, Kalifornicateya, usa - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 21:55:01 (ZULU)

Hogs,

Tomorrow we're leaving for a bit of a break, and will only be back NEXT week Sunday. So, please play nice, and don't break anything.

Also, if somebody's sent me something and I've not replied - I'm not *really* ignoring you, I'm just busy with my studies. Hopefully all will return to normal HA after the end of October.

Marius

Marius
Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 23:07:17 (ZULU)

Joe Mahon, you got a civvie armourer? any jobs going? hey, we got a load of Joe's as well as Mark/Marc's..

Jody and Doug, yep i'm still shootin the Marlin, the pig the other night was with the 308 though. The recoil from the 350 grain factory stuff is.. stout. despite the porting, shooting it from the bench is not something you'd want to do all day, you don't, however, notice the recoil when your shooting at game. The thing is damn accurate and will make big cloverleaves or ragged holes at 100m, it would interest me to try this thing at extreem range, perhaps 350 to 400m, but the sod will have a rainbow trajectory. What i don't like about the Marlin is that mine is a straight stocked version, they now do a pistol grip version, i would like to convert mine. I would prefer a version without the porting, again, they now do a version without ports, id then thread the barrel and put a decent muzzle break on it. I realy wish that Hogue would make a stock for this rifle but Hogue say it would cost em to much to make the mold and that they wouldn't sell enough marlin stocks to make it worth thier while, i guess i'll have to either go with a laminate stock or a synthetic from wild west guns, but judging on the 9 months ive been waiting for my lazer light holder, its probably not worth ordering anything from them. I am toying with the idea of having the rifle turned into a break down jobbie.

I had a very nice young lady from Steiner Optik call me today, apparently thier service manager has been trying to call me but not reached me, she wanted to make an apointment for when he could actualy contact me. He will be calling me at 12.00 tommorow, i'll see what they want to offer me for my wet bino's episode.

I also had a very encouraging email from Zeiss/Hensold today about tactical/longrange scopes, and i have replied with some ideas,and points that i consider to be of vital importance. If S&B wont do the 4-16x42, then maybe Zeiss will accomodate us.

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 23:35:47 (ZULU)

Well I'll be, ..Pete Carpentier.

How the hell are you? How's Ed and that young buck you partnered with for awhile? I'll have to look at Lau's book to remember his name. Since I've gotten back in the swing of things, I see that you've been busy with a number of articles and events. That's great. Looks like you are still the driving force in the TXARNG.

Ran across some of your Joe's at our TAG match last March. They were taking a break from Depot duty. If I remember right the 240B team took first. We aren't gonna let them come back if they keep that shit up. I hope they made it back OK.

Won't make Wilson this year. Tried to convince Bn that it would be a great train-up but they wouldn't buy it. I'm AGR now and it's hard to justify anything but paperwork. Come on deployment!

Hit my email sometime and be sure to say hello to Ed for me.

Kevin Maries
OR, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 02:07:52 (ZULU)

Had supper last night with Neil Morris. What a nice guy.

brian k. sain
Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 03:43:39 (ZULU)

Oh don't you just love it when your night shift finnished just at the right time to get into the woods perfectly for the morning stalk, do and get a deer right now. Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 04:58:17 (ZULU)

Undude,

>> edited <<

Kick some ass, man.

jc
Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 05:33:36 (ZULU)

Hi guys...

I don't get much time to post anymore... I'm hardly on the web at all anymore. I've been busy as hell.

I swore that I wasn't gonna do anymore gun projects this summer, but I've been up to my ear lobes in them.

I have an honory degree in side by side combat shotguns, and have learned (the hard way) about rebuilding a SxS lock :(((, and I also learned about re-timing the locks (one beau-damn-datious job)... but now I have one hellova coach gun cas... it's so slick that it can be run totally with the right hand, while the left hand just stuffs ammo in the tubes. :))

On this law suit against Micky... USO has been known for some low handed shit over the last 3 or 4 years, and have pulled some fast crap in the industry. Many optical guys won't even deal with John Williams anymore, and he's feeling the pain.

But this takes the cake.

Ol' "Doctor" John Williams tried to license some patients from one of our favorite scope companies, and was told to go suck a rock ! "HA!... Double HA!!

Anyway... guys in the know have been on to USO for some time, and I started blowing USO's covers on the Roster several years ago.

Back a year and a half ago, The "Doctor" threatened to sue me (poor MOI??), and I laughed, and said, "You haven't lived until you have tried to sue me... suing me is like trying to catch a greased gerbil, while wearing catcher's mits on both hands" Triple HA!!!

But our favorite grumpy Micky gave John the benifit of the doubt, and stayed with them, trying to help them get it right. I offered Micky to help USO get it right, through Micky, under the conditions that USO (or anyone else) NEVER found out where the information came from. I mean, I got a reputation to protect, and what would people say if I was helpin' USO... (even hookers woudn't talk to me), but that was never taken up ;))

When USO had sucked Micky dry, they tossed him in the garbage, and then sent HIM a bill for about $3000 for some scopes that HE (Micky) he was evaluation for them :((( What a scum suckin' outfit.

Lemme answer some of the complaints "against" our favorite Grump...

>"1. They say I took some scopes for article and never wrote any articles on any USO scopes. They say I promised two articles. Anyone here not see at least two articles written by me on USO scopes."<

Micky wrote many articles for USO, and they have been on this site, and several other sites that cater to the tactical community. After Micky got the golden shaft, he had ALL the articles pulled from these sites.

>"2.They say my real purpose for getting USO scopes was to give them to USO's competition so they could reverse engineer the USO scopes."<

This is more than silly... who was Micky working for??? The CIA?

Companies don't send in "spies" to get off the rack products for reverse engineering... they buy them in a goddamn STORE, over the counter. And WHAT, pray tell, are the secrets that Micky helped steal?

Any company that has propriety designs, has them protected by US patents. If they are NOT patented, and you put the product out on the open market, the designs are legally considered "public art" (a patent office term), and anyone can copy them.

Anyone that wants to "reverse engineer" a USO scope, can just go buy one (if you can endure an hour of John W's BS), take it back to the shop, and take it apart... without all the "spy" melodrama.

>"They further this with saying all I did was hurt USO's business by telling lies about them. Anyone on here more than one year going to say I did not try my best to help them get the company on track?"<

This is past credibility... Micky's endless defense of USO was almost the end of our friendship (as some of youse bums that have been here a few years can attest)... he defended them to the wall, in the face of growing evedence that USO engaged in very badd business prectices.

>"3. They say I have given away trade secerts. What secerts are they talking about and why would I have them?"<

Micky may have well given away ALL of USO's "secerts"... but what is a "secert"?? ;) - But if we're talkin' "Trade secrets", that laughable... they have no trade secrets... you just buy a USO scope and take it apart... if they didn't patent it, you can copy it!!!!!

<"4. They say I have information that could help them in a lawsuit against another scope company and want this information."<

Looks like USO is involved with ANOTHER lawsuit against a scope company... USO just lost two law suits with other companies - Unertl, and Armalite... cost USO about $400,000... (mebbe' more) with legal fees. That's a lottas scopes to sell to make up that kinda loss in a market where they have lost almost all of their reputation.

Any information that Micky has, that USO didn't give him, is MICKY'S PROPERTY... that's how us consultants make a living... we sell our knowledge to those that value it (or give it away if WE chose to). IF USO wants Micky's "information" let them write a friggin' check for it.

">If I give it to them they may drop the suit against me. I sure wish I knew what information I am supposed to have, since no other company has asked me for any information about USO scopes and I did not help any other company like I did USO."<

Micky has NOT been involved with any other scope companies.

5. They have said the amount they want is 32,000.00 some odd dollars for what they alleged I have done.

What a friggin' paultry sum! Dang Micky, I'd be embarrased to be sued for that little... I mean, if I was USO, I'd sue you for at least $1,500,000 just for being Dog ugly! And I'd add another mil to that because you was Magnetic, and rattled when you walked.

>"Give me some time and I will publish what ever I can so you guys can read my side of it. The bottom line is this is BS and just in my opinion an attempt to shut me up."<

JW has threatened to sue damn near everybody... if you haven't been on his "I'm gonna sue you" (or the "I'm gonna screw you) list, you ain't nobody ;) Some of the best people in the shooting industry are on John's "Poo-poo" list!

">Lawsuits are nothing new to them and they have threatened lawsuits against others who spoke up. Ask Pablito about that."<

Yuppers... I got's that tee shirt ;) but I was always careful to stay with the facts... when I said that his customer services was shit... I could fill a court room with unhappy USO owners.

>"Like I said before I have nothing to hide. I have done nothing wrong."<

Micky is dog ugly, but he's a good guy, and a straight shooter... but "DUMB as a stick" for staying with USO so long, in the face of their poor treatment of him.

>"One thing I will tell you is they have pressured other website to keep this from being discussed in an open forum. Now if they had nothing to hide why would they do that?"<

Because an open discussion of this, brings USO's business practices to light, and they DON'T want people to know how they operate.

There are several other's that were consultants to USO, and ALL of them that I personally know, have bailed out, and have had ALL of their written articals removed from shooting sites.

USO has burned a lot of bridges in the sniper/tactical community, and it's a very small community. We all know (or know about) each other.

>"Others on here say all they really want is to talk to me and then they would drop the suit. I have said if they drop the suit first I will answer all their questions. My lawyers say I can't talk to them until they drop the suit as it may hurt my chances of defending myself if they dont drop it. Got to go with the experts on this. My realm is shooting not legal things."<

This is rediculous... if you're being sued, you don't "do lunch" with your enemy.

Micky, Dude... "IF" - they drop the suit - AND they sign a statement releasing you from "any and all" further legal actions - AND agree to pay you for any information that you might have (in advance), THEN have lunch with them and talk... but wait 'til their check clears your bank first ;))

... But the end is in sight. I said last year (you heard it here on the Roster first) that I didn't think that USO would make it and would go under in the not so far future... well, word has it (from someone inside USO), that the end is in sight... things are badd there, and not getting better. Sales are not good - they just lost a large law suit - and "Doctor" John Williams was found out to be a fraud, and NOT have a PhD - but an "AA" degree... my ex secretary had more ed-ju-ma-ction than the phony "Doctor" had... their reputation has gone down the toilet.

This suit against Micky is just the last breath of a dying company, and the rampant rage and screams of a frustrated man that is seeing his company go down the tubes.

"Doctor" John Williams has pissed on a lot of people in the sniper community, and the scope industry, and it's coming around to bite him in the ass...

For a company to sue a consultant, because the consultant left them because of mistreatment, and them blame the consultant (Micky) for their loss in business, is the penultimate of pathethic-ness. If you gots USO stock, swap it for Enron, you'll come out ahead.

Mean while, the USO ST-10 is a turkey, and the M3-LR owns the field... Go Lupita - Go Premier Reticles - GO UNERTL!!!

ALAN...

You've had some time to take a break... get yo' raggity ass back here, ya' hear!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 14:22:22 (ZULU)

I recently had a discussion with a retail organization here on the east coast.

They did some follow up on a certain optics company behaving badly.

It seems they will be dropping the line.

Once you lose your honor and integrity, bad things happen.

medicjim86
Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 17:16:36 (ZULU)

Goodies for the Grunts......

Chris in OR had a 1000' spool of Khaki 550 cord delivered.

Garth at Leupold sent me a nice check. From his account, not Leupold's.

Mrs. SCLE49 apparently got incensed over Mr. SCLE49's contribution, because she was not included on the deal, and sent a very generous check. We have instructions to buy Goodies for the Girls. Will do......I'll leave the Child Bride in charge of that task, and then trust Joe on the distribution end.

We go shopping today, with the Child Bride (who is, Thank God, back home and spoiling me again in the manner to which I have grown accustomed) clutching a total of $758.38. You folks blow me away. We are both grateful and humbled by your generosity. God Bless you all.

Called the Chandler's today to see if they were waterborne yet. Talked to the Colonel, he said all was under control, but in the middle of the conversation there was a significant "THUMP", and he remarked that it sounded like a pretty big limb. Then went back to the conversation, which was a good one. Always enjoy talking to those folks.

Y'all stay safe!

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 18:04:56 (ZULU)

dmarc,

Got lucky today, and met up with another section of A Trp 1-17; Your box went to a deserving lot. I'd like to give you the young NCO's name and addy offline just to make it a bit more personal. Needless to say, he was a happy paratrooper--and will take north to his brethren "most" of it. I gave to these guys because they are gypsies, running security through RPG alley 24/7--they never get much a break lately. And they never see a hot meal, like 95% of us.

Sam M: Recieved three boxes today. I guess it's back to the camps...heheh. I think I'll go saturday--just to get as many boxes at one time to the troops.

I got screwed by a one-star today and wasted an afternoon waiting...waiting...but it was at this really cool mout site (door kicker electronic funhouses). It was bad-ass. Anteon makes the thing, and you'd have to see it to believe it. But the whole thing put my ass in a bind on "other" missions. I can't waste a day like that for nuthin...and the jerk went to a hotel instead. Dang...

Pete: CSA limited has the main contract--they provide the armorers. I doubt the pay would interest you though...it ain't much pay and it kinda shows, if you know what I mean.

SKS question: How the heck do you get the gas tube/ hand guard combo off the barrelled action? I flipped the little lever, but it is concave on the face of the pin, and the top edge hangs the tube before it clears. It is jammed tight in there. Any special tricks here or what??? Like I said, my rooskie is rusty---in more ways than one, apparently!

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 18:14:10 (ZULU)

Joe M- Glad you got the 3 boxes, 2 more are inbound, with profound gratitude. Sam M.

Seuss
Isabele, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 18:16:40 (ZULU)

Joe - SKS question answered via email

medicjim
Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 18:25:02 (ZULU)

Well all i saw this morning in the woods was 3 squirrels and some folks walking thier dogs, Had the Steiner guy on the phone today, he offered me the money back that i paid for the 7x50's (B/ST)and that if i paid the difference in price up to what some 7x50 night hunters would cost he would ensure i got some, hmm, that means i get my money back for the bino's i bought, which failed. that i would expect anyway, and if i pay the extra then i can get the night hunters, so basicaly id get the night hunters for 1/2 price. I told him it wasn't a good enough offer. The 7x50 B/ST are advertised as bieng built to military specifications (naturaly one assumes you are getting the same beast as the M22's, i imagine they are totaly water proof? anyone enlighten me on the Mil Spec of the M22's) and Wasserdicht, water proof. He said that they where only lightly waterpoofed, a light shower, or perhaps if one had them under a jacket they would withstand sweat getting in(his words) so i told him what he meant was Spritzwasserdicht, or shower proof, yes he said. so i explained that they where bieng advertised as waterproof and that they should then get thier advertising wording terms correct before misleading customers and that i had been told by Frankonia Jagd that the bino's had come from a military contract that had fallen through and where built to the same standards as the M22's. anyway, he is sending me some 7x50 night nunters and is having a think about what else he is going to offer me. Ok, time for a little humour:

Ive been watching the hurrcane Isabel on the news.... You guys ever wonder how come Hurricanes always get a womans name??? Well see its like thes:

The blow seldom and usualy take your house when they leave.

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 20:35:14 (ZULU)

Joe M.

That's great to hear. It pleases me greatly to know that stuff will get to some of the guys in the thick of things over there. Regrettably I hear even today we lost some of these fine men in a convoy attack, God bless their souls.

If the "goodies" we send over cracks a smile on just one of these guy’s it will have well been worth it. Please do shoot me the NCOs addy via e-mail. Did you happen to forward my note to him as well? Cameras?

Thanks for everything you’re doing and keep your head down,

Marc

drmarc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 20:41:45 (ZULU)

To All:

UPS delivered two large boxes that we are taking to the Post Office now.

They came from Caplugs, full of muzzle caps for M16's.

Due to Chris in Oregon's efforts, the Caplug manufacturer donated them........but Chris told me they were giving 2500.

Child Bride pulled the packing slip, and got a little leaky around the eyes (as did I).

There are 5000 of them, slip marked "For the Troops In Kuwait".

The cartons were shipped September 11.

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 20:46:41 (ZULU)

Actually, Pete, in the interest of gender equality, we have some years ago done away with only female names. Click on my name to get the current lists, which alternate male and female. As a person twice divorced, though, I take your point.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 21:37:43 (ZULU)

Pete L., are/were your Steiners the 7x50 Military Marine model???

Waiting out the arrival of the winds predicted to accompany the rain we're getting now..May build an Arc...Gathering the Bimbos to fill it may be a problem though...

Bruce Robinson...Broke 90 yesterday...Will try to make it to 100 using 22LR and head shots and a hand gun for stalking the chucks around buildings, fence lines etc....It aint prairie doggin, but it's OK...

outa here

Markwell
The soggy Alleghenes, WV, - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 22:07:18 (ZULU)

Joe,

Great to hear you hooked up with the 1/17, especially that it was A Trp. Give those guys my contact info, and hit me off line with any requests. I'm not trying to be exclusive or anything. I just remember being a red-headed-stepchild twice over (Ground Scout Troop, in a Air Cavalry Sqdn, in an Infatry DIV)

Can you re-visit your suggested-item list, and prioritize some for us? Has the list changed at all?

God-Speed to all you guys (and Gals, natch)

Old Bill

Bill McCormick
Bristol, TN, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 22:09:40 (ZULU)

Pete,

Final note on the 450 marlin. The 1895MR is the pistol grip stock unit with a 22" non-ported barrel. Shoots nice. I guess recoil could be called stout but not bad. Stout reminds me of a few gals I knew some years ago..... never mind, It'll get BKS started!

Doug

Doug Bourdo
K town, WI, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 22:19:56 (ZULU)

Joe M.

Mail.

Subj. SKS

Spud

spud
merced, Kalisocialistfornia, usa - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 22:42:45 (ZULU)

Lindy, shit man, thats all we need, a politicaly correct, homosexual hurricane...

Markwell...the Steiners are 7x50 B/ST which i was told stood for Bendeswehr/Strichplatte ( German Army-Military/Ranging reticle). The guy on the phone today told me that they weren't from some flopped military contract but where over production on a contract for some one in the states, i immediately though that maybe some one is passing these off as M22's , which is what i thought they where. I can't believe that the US military would buy bino's that are not totaly waterproof, so i asume the M22's are.So if you get a chance of some cheap steiners, and they have B/ST on the fromt of em (be they 7x50 or 8x30) then unless you live in the desert, beware !, i'd stick any optics in the future in a bath of water for a day just to test them.

Doug, thats the one i want.

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 23:12:08 (ZULU)

FatBoy -

Do you have current contact info. for the Turret Tagz listed in you Leupold M3 article? The phone number you listed is disconnected with no forwarding #. Thanks for the great article. Now if I can just find some Turret Tagz for my non-M3 scopes.

Scott Steele

SSReliance@aol.com

Scott Steele
Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 23:23:28 (ZULU)

Well folks, i'm heading off up north for the funeral, so i'll catch ya'all later.. Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 05:45:59 (ZULU)

Re: the Legal situation that one of our guys is in. Dont ya'll think it might be a good idea to refrain from talking about it on here since the feller that is pissing in our pals cornflakes probably monitors this place and might get some ideas or at least get more riled up?

Just a thought from my non-lawyer ass.

Out

Gooch
Friday, September 19, 2003, at 05:52:01 (ZULU)

drmarc: Uhhhh. Ummmmm. Well, your note is right here, in my hand. The box went without. That was a mistake on my part---I ran out the door and forgot to execute my checklist yesterday. To make up for that on the spot--I grabbed SGT G's addy in-country--and that email is inbound to you.

Gooch is right; Mike's situation is best left to offline emails for those with a need-to-know (re: guys with info to help). I'm sure we can AAR this publically once it's over, but we know at least once someone had to deal legally with stuff posted here.

I hate lawyers, but who among us with a divorce or three wouldn't? Heheh.

Word for the day: recalcitrant. As in, "the gas tube's release assembly is..." POS. I think it was assembled with the hammer. God knows what they did with the sickle...

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Friday, September 19, 2003, at 08:00:42 (ZULU)

Hey Guys,

Question re: AR cleaning.

I recall a couple weeks ago someone (was it Hockeyref?) posting about how they discovered a "miracle" chemical for cleaning the tough caked on carbon on an AR's bolt and bolt carrier. I remember them saying that they let it soak for like 15 minutes and after wards all the shit just wiped right off. What was it? I can't remember.

Thanks

Rich

Rich S.
Izzy-fied, - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 13:35:12 (ZULU)

Only thing I can say is, never tried a USO cause I couldn't afford too and thank God they didn't send me one for evaluation. The only good thing I ever heard about USO came from John Ferguson and Mike Miller. Can't believe they think their best advocate owes them money for advocating their product....Our own resident lawyer at the time here was allegedly unimpressed as well as others who had the means to buy and try it. My only thought about the thing was.."IF you build it big enough and heavy enough and high priced enough, anyone can build a good scope. I'm sorry to see anyone take a dive in this business world today but sour grapes won't help the situation and sueing your advocates ain't likely to reinstate your stature or ease the pain of failure much. I doubt seriously any court will be sympathetic to that. When they sent that scope to Mike for evaluation they opened themselves up to critical evaluation and speculation and any court anywhere will see it that way. IF "I" had ordered that scope you can bet your butt they would have expected me to pay right then or they'd have me in finiancial claims court right away. From that I assume they didn't expect payment or if they did a contract should state as much. IF all they expected was evaluation and an article they shot themselves in the foot if it comes out to something other than they want. I'm not on the jury so it don't really matter much what I think, but USO if you read this there are many people in the "community" who hate to see you fail but will damn you forever if you go through with sueing the only guy that really tried to help your product, I know it gives me a pause to think about all the things I've evaluated over the years here and other places.

Sorry guys but I ain't got a gag order yet, and I'm damn sure their lawyers don't want me on the stand for USO.

Bruce your doing a great thing. My company is a drop point and has a similar program but your one man, woman... effort is really commendable. I'm humbled by your patriotism and kindness. When I get around here I'll get your some contribution on the way. Been a little down as the ole ticker has been trying to take a crap on me.

The good news is, I don't feel much like posting and thinking so I'll let you guys have it for the most part.

Brogers
Friday, September 19, 2003, at 13:49:17 (ZULU)

Brogers,

Glad to hear you are contankerous enough to keep that ticker in line and hope you keep it that way for a long time to come. I for one have missed your posts.

Rich S.,

I don't remember the reference here but I seen this mentioned on many other shooting sites. GM Top Engine Cleaner, Part # 1050002, it's only about $6 a can from any GM dealer. It is used to remove the carbon from intake and combustion chamber so should work fine for your purpose. When used in shooting I have read about it being used straight as is or sometimes mixed with other oils such as Kroil or cleaners like ammonia for cleaning bores.

'lito,

Glad to see you back at the keyboard as well.

Later,

Byron
CA, USA - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 15:30:35 (ZULU)

Hi guys,

Been a while since I was here. Got a question or two for you all.

Anyone here know much about the USMC mod. 70 Winchester sniper rifles? If so, how to identify a real one?

Thanks for any info you have.

Semper Fi

Steve

steve
Kingsville , TX, USA - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 16:07:21 (ZULU)

Steve,

The "Death from Afar" series of books by the Chandlers has some good references and examples of Vietnam era model 70's. You may want to contact Brian Sain who posts on here, I believe he is working on a Vietnam sniper book and may be able to assist you as well.

drmarc

drmarc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 16:36:07 (ZULU)

BRogers, I hope you feel better soon and thanks for kind words

Gooch, way I see it I have nothing to hide. I am sure the lawyer for USO is watching all this also but last I checked freedom of speech existed. I am an honest A.H. and from what I have read I am accused of being the opposite. All I wnat is everything in the open. Like I said before I have done nothing wrong.

This whole scene reminds me of history and the poor Jews in WW2. Many sat on their hands because it was not them they other guys where taking out until it was too late.

Pablito/Catman, damm how many times I have had to eat crow when it came to your versus my views of USO? From now on I am making you my person I use for charachter checks on anyone I plan to do business with. We need to go shooting together. I think when this is all done I will take a month a drive around the US and meet with old and new friends.

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
CA, - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 19:59:46 (ZULU)

Major Joe,

Damn! Just how old is your mail room guy anyway? I haven't heard of the Americal in one heck of a long time. Just took my father-in-law up to the VA hospital in Columbia, MO on Monday for a check-up. He was on an escort carrier in the Pacific in WW II and he's just a shade over eighty. Wonder if a "kid" of 66 could get a job helping out over there?

Am on my way to the Post Office to ship a few more goodies your way.

Keep up the great work and thank the troops for me and my wife.

yote-Bait,

Welcome back you old varmint. I was starting to get worried about ya. Guess you've got too many meanness molecules in your blood to get too sick. ;o)

undude Mike,

If your trip brings you through Missouri look me up so we can swap lies over "several" cool ones.

Doc

Doc Holloway
The crisp Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 20:24:51 (ZULU)

brogers:

Thanks for the kind words, but I and the Child Bride are just acting as a conduit.

The real work is being done by Joe and his boys, and it is made possible by the generosity and patriotism of people on this forum, many of them lurkers. Child Bride is getting writer's cramp from doing the Thank-you notes!

Joe:

A 56 lb. box went out today. We put 10 logs of Skoal and Cope in just before we sealed it. Based on your Email to me, we will continue to go heavy on the chaw.

Tell the troops we said Hey, and to Stay Safe!

To All:

What is really wonderful about this is the number of folks that are working their tails off, like Doc and Chris, procuring all kinds of needed goodies, and bypassing me, and shipping it over.

I think that if we had a full accounting of how many folks are shipping to Joe, we would all be amazed.

Goodies for the Grunts Accounting:

Balance on 18 Sept.: $758.38

Expenditures 18/19 Sept.: $498.26

Balance 19 Sept.: $260.12

Another Contribution from Louisiana (Thanks!!): $50.00

Current Balance: $310.12

Back to Wally World and the Rez!

And our thanks to you all. Child Bride and I agree that we could not purchase for any amount of money the wonderful feeling we get out of participating in this, and all it costs us is some diesel fuel and some postage. Time we have (not like I have a real job, and she does all the packing!).....and this is a very enjoyable way to spend our time.

Y'all Stay Safe!

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 22:36:17 (ZULU)

"More people, remember, fried in France this August while its social utopians snoozed at the beach than all those lost in Kabul and Baghdad together. I think an American pilot who flew over the peaks of Afghanistan or a Marine colonel now patrolling in Iraq was far more likely to ensure that his aged mother back home lives under humane conditions than was a Frenchman this summer on his month-long vacation on the Mediterranean coast. So remember, this August Americans lost 100 brave soldiers fighting selflessly for the liberty of others while thousands of Frenchmen perished through their children's neglect and self-absorption."

Victor Davis Hanson, on why we should not pay heed to the critics. Click on my name for the link. Man, that guy can WRITE!

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Friday, September 19, 2003, at 22:59:26 (ZULU)

Short rant ahead, folks.

My first challenge, to the readers of this forum to contribute to our service personnel by way of funds and goods for creature comforts, while they risk their lives to defend our cushy lifestyle, has been wildly successful, as I have chronicled here. We even got contributions from people out of work.

Second challenge was to Senators and Representatives with six-figure salaries and benefits out the wazoo.

Nada. Zip. Not a penny.

And then today, I read of the billionaires who pride themselves on their philanthropy. Hence the third challenge, as follows:

Not naming names, but if the richest man in America could possibly see his way clear to reduce his net worth from 40 billion to 39 billion (I know, some belt-tightening would have to take place), I believe we could get a few C130's full of baby wipes, jerky and Skoal headed to the people that are defending HIS cushy existance. Hell, a mere million or so should do it

Not wanting to come across as a "Share The Wealth" communist type.

Only wanted to point out what dedication and spirit YOU folks have. I'm proud to be associated with you.

You all have a sense of honor and pride that the billionaires will never know.

Rant Off.

Y'all Stay Safe!

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 00:13:02 (ZULU)

Gooch.

The one thing they made sure they taught us in medic school....FIRST, DO NO HARM..

....after that, they went on about being accountable, doing some good for society, taking risks, civic responsibility...it's all so fuzzy now <grin>.

Do you think the turd balls that deminish this great nation with thier absurd, rediculous, selfish conduct have to take a similar oath? I wonder if they would go so far as to twist the meaning of the oath to suit thier needs?

medicjim
Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 02:10:11 (ZULU)

Have you heard what Overstock.com is doing for the troops in Afghanistan? I'm impressed.

Scott Smith
Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 04:21:11 (ZULU)

Well HOGs, after much thought and a lot of work I instructed my lawyers to file suit against US Optics and John Williams on Monday. I believe the suit will be filed and served on the man formerly known as Doctor Williams this coming week. I should have filed this when I split from them right after the Shot Show.

Hopefully in a few weeks I will be able to post links to the complaints for all to read.

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
CA, - Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 06:34:05 (ZULU)

Gents,

I just got called to come get 9 boxes from the mail room, they won't fit in the jeep! Congrats guys, you've shut down a major mail operation out of sheer volume. I'm taking the Suburban over there in a while...I'll post the inventory once I get it. My trip today to the camps got shelved due to paperwork...I'll go Monday---with a load of goodies!

CAMP PERRY Atkins Trophy Winner:

(why didn't I see this here sooner?)

Army Specialist (E4) Liana Bombardier (cool name), "out shot hundreds to become the first woman in the 100 year history of the National Rifle Matches to win the Atkins Trophy...with the highest aggregate score in the Long Range National Championships..." She says, "I was always daddy's little girl. We spent every weekend at the range. It was our time together"

In a bizarre twist of fate, she is now training some of her original Drill Sergeants---who once "thought" they were training her in basic training! Ha. LTC Dave--she's one of yours now?

Brian Sain: Not sure yet if she digs you.

But we should be proud of what she represents. Barely twenty, she is the future of our sport.

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 08:58:40 (ZULU)

Joe: Perhaps Specialist Bombardier's accomplishment wasn't noted here because we're used to being outshot by Nancy Thompkins-Gallagher and/or her daughters, one of whom won the Long Distance World Championship at Bisley this year. "SSDD - outshot by a woman, again."

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 13:46:53 (ZULU)

Bruce R.

I don't think anyone would object to paying the postage from the total. There's no need in you and C/B eating the bill.

Yote,

Sorry to hear bout the ticker. If you still read that's gonna be good enough.

'lito,

Glad to hear from ya as well.

undude,

If ya come thru Indiana, I'm buyin.

John

Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 14:37:36 (ZULU)

Undude, you do really do need to take up Acehigh on his offer. He is one unbelievably kind and generous shooter. (He has a cool car to!)

Michael
CA, USA - Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 16:11:58 (ZULU)

Acehigh,

When I made the first challenge to DR members, I said I'd pay shipping on anything contributed. That stands.

Members of Congress challenge, and Billionaire's challenge.....I WILL use some of that for their shipping......but I'm not holding my breath.

Joe:

You made my and Child Bride's morning. Start looking around for an 18-wheeler. Our task now is to get the goodies to you in a quantity that won't fit in the Suburban.

It's a real kick to mail out one or two boxes from here, and have Joe report getting nine!

Once again, let me say how proud I am of you guys. Feels good, don't it?

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 16:50:55 (ZULU)

Hi guys,

I just have a quick question.

Where should I send my Bushnell spacemaster spotting scope for

cleaning? (some water got inside it and it fogged)

Would it be best to send it back to Bushnell?

Or does anyone here know of a reputable optic repair company that

would clean it up.

Thanks

Aaron

Aaron Ford
Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 17:29:00 (ZULU)

Anybody out there actually shot one of the AR-30's from Armalite? I remember some mention of the .338 version a while back but don't recall the accuracy, etc. I'm thinking about the .308 version when it comes out next year.

Steve Burris

Steve Burris
NOVA, NOVA, USA - Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 17:44:22 (ZULU)

Aaron,

Go here it will give you all the info you need:

http://www.bushnell.com/support/repair.html

Later,

Byron
CA, USA - Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 17:54:14 (ZULU)

Gents:

Received the following

Dave K, 1 box (field gear stuff-tape, cleaning supplies, chaw) also, the "coin" was handed to a SF Captain who wandered in.

Sam M: 2 Medium big boxes, seeds, jerky, candies, batts, etc

Tony B, 4 USPS priority boxes, jerky, "field" supplies, Venison jerk (yummmm), Mags, etc

Jody C: 1 box, bottles, patches, magazines (reading kind-heheh) etc

Mark W: snacks galore

Bruce: 1.2 cube box or so--and a notice to "sign" for two more (but the cage-kid was off doing something when I went by).

Looks like a Brigade Support Area in my office! he SF dude is down from his safe house, and is running a company op of 5 teams. They are "jonesing" for tobacco--and I'll do some sorting here and ship most of this haul straight to these guys.

They sit on the economy, intentionally cut off from the "regular" army units, and are deprived of the goodies we usually take for granted. I'm thinking we're all good with that plan--but I want to give you all as much feedback/ info as i can. This is the coolest thing I have ever been a part of.

And that is ten boxes, with two awaiting my signature for an even dozen.

Just got word that I may not be able to take R & R for the childbirth thing...Aaaah, heck. It is a damn war after all. I'll run some frustration out on the PT track tonight and drive on with the chips falling where they may. Windsprints ought to be the ticket!

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 17:57:27 (ZULU)

Steve; A friend of mine came by with his and I shot the .338 Lapua in AR-30. Accuracy was better than acceptable. I believe we shot about .75MOA and we shot it out to only about 600 yards though as the wind was over 30mph that day. The noise is a bit strong but the muzzle tamer worked really nice. Weight is too heavy to pack for me but Recoil about like a 30-06 or less. I was not crazy about the stock and AR-15 style grip for bench work but the trigger was quite good and everthing on it worked very well. I also shot a AR10 the same day but not with enough experience to say it was accurate beyond say a M1a1 or something in that class. However I did not really get a good check on it. The Lapua would outshoot it I was convinced but that was only one rifle of each. If you need something for long range assignments in wind and weather I DOUBT you could beat the AR-30 much. I don't see the need in a .308 for weight considerations mostly but it would surely work.

Thanks ACE; I seem to have fooled em again. The problem looked serious but seems to have been fixed for now anyway. I'll try not to be so scarce. Even got in some pretty fair dove shooting about the 1st of the month before it got to botherin me. Been thinking about goin to see ole Wiley and see how he made it through the summer.

Brogers
Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 20:34:30 (ZULU)

Damn, Joe!

Didn't mean to complicate things. Only reason I can think of for a "signature required" is the insurance. I insure all boxes to you because we're using other folks' money to buy the stuff, but I will check at my PO to see if there is a waiver I can put on future shipments to eliminate that need, so if the REMF (Sorry!) in the cage is on a two-hour lunch break, you can simply snag the boxes and get on with business!

And yeah, Joe, this is the coolest thing that we have ever been a part of, too. We are just sorry that you can't go home for the big event (maybe someone in the mail room has perceived a pattern here and sabotaged your R&R.......if so, our apologies).

Rest assured, our thoughts and prayers are with your wife and new child. If there is anything that we can do from here, you have but to ask. Hit me off-Roster with a phone number and we will be tickled to death to stay in touch with them.

A guy in Canada has purchased his own dehydrator and is processing 80 lbs. of beef into jerky, and is contemplating buying a slicer to speed the process for the next batches....another guy in NM is constantly sending me prices from PX's and Walmarts to ensure best "bang for the buck"......and the contributions keep rolling in.

Joe, the folks here care about all of you over there. Never forget that.

Y'all Stay Safe!

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 22:10:33 (ZULU)

Back from vacation. Not hardly a ripple on the water during the hurricane. Amazing what a couple hundred miles of separation between beaches will do. Trying to catch up on the latest poop. Damn you folks have been gabby while I was gone.

Bolt out!

Bolt
Here's to swimmin with bowlegged women!, NC, - Saturday, September 20, 2003, at 22:20:26 (ZULU)

Joe M;

Glad the box arrived quickly.

Savage .22;

I ordered a Savage Mark II BV bolt action .22 LR today. It has a 21" heavy barrel, blued metal, and gray laminate stock. No iron sights.

I'm gonna fit it with a scope with target knobs and a bipod. Kinda like a mini F-class.

Brownells has triggers for them if I need to replace it.

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 01:44:50 (ZULU)

Glare on eyeglassess? I was told you can see light reflected off my eyeglasses through my veil while in my ghille suit. What does the military use for those with glasses to reduce glare? Or is there any way to reduce it?

tschiemer
ark, usa - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 01:58:44 (ZULU)

Robert, re: reflections:

Two words: Contact lenses.

Glass reflects; curved glass reflects in many directions, flat glass in only one; but the whole surface reflects. Anti-reflection coating probably helps, but I've no idea how much. 'lito can probably put numbers on it.

You might be able to rig some sort of honeycomb in front of your lenses to kill the off-axis reflections; but it also narrows your field of view. You don't notice it in a scope, because your FOV is already narrow.

Mike

BMG Mike
Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 02:53:32 (ZULU)

Gents,

Just a quick post. This is the first weekend in our new home. Nice not to have to move "in". Now we are in the unpacking/dragging from storage mode.

Grabbed my .35 Whelan Imp. out of my safe...will sight in for deer and elk season on Monday. Suppose that would be sufficient for Peter's Piggies (tm...;-) )? I push a 250 grainer at about 2,500-2,600 FPS depending on load. Have been wanting to try some 275 and 300 grainers, but recoil is enough with the 250's. If doing big bear or some such I might use them. Other than that probably not really needed.

Bruce, need to get a some goodies headed your way. I've been remiss. What works better, a check or for us to purchase goodies and send them to you? Let me know.

Things are calming down at work after the murder 10 days ago. Had a planned boycott by the lads, but most decided they'd rather eat and it fizzled. Like dealing with a bunch of 8 year olds.

Brian, How is the AWC "stubbie" working out? I am thinking of building a dedicated (suppressed) 20 incher. Would love to get one of Whit Engel's Wraith's. That IS a system. Tracks his subsonics to 350 and super sonic loads to 550 in the reticle they use.

All for now...got new locks to install.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 03:22:00 (ZULU)

John,

Incoming - No attachments!

Thanks,

BearMan

BearMan
Indy, Indiana, U.S.A. - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 05:43:24 (ZULU)

Ref: Eyeglasses

They are a pain in the butt. I have worn eyeglasses since childhood and now wear progressive lenses. I've considered going for contact lenses but worry about their maintenance in the field. When I was in the Army a friend had hard contacts and when the CS wafted over he was in the "hurt locker". For the stalk I wear "combat frames" with the U.S. Divers strap. aka "Birth Control Glasses". They work fine but are no answer to the reflection issue. My answer to the reflection problem is keep in the shade and be mindful of the sun's location. If the adversary is using artificial light then all bets are off.

Ref: Winter Project

I'm going to build up a .22 Rim fire rifle for use as a trainer. I'm going to mount a full-up scope with Gen II reticle and shoot scaled down targets out to 250 yards. Where do I start? German target rifle? I’d like the rifle to have the same size, weight and feel as my M40A1…….40X???

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 11:03:45 (ZULU)

Bruce, those two boxes turned out to be four boxes! I had to hurry and break all this stuff out--we had "customers" here this morning! CPT Kyle from 5th Group and CPT Ryan from the duece; both were in town looking for "supplies" that are hard to get in the "system". They got more than they thought--that's for sure! And tell C/B that I got the card, and I am eating the chips and 'peno bean dip right now!!!

OK, so my work area looked like a sports section of walmart! It was so out of control I had to take pictures. I am amazed at how much "stuff" came in in the last two days. I took it all, and broke it down into piles (Batts, wipes, jerky, candy, etc) then I take some of each, and re-pack it into "unit" boxes for distro. Sort of spread the wealth so that one unit doesn't get all the batteries and another gets all the wipes...

In my travels around--I have found new "customers" for this operation. There are odd-ball guys out doing little parts, basically forgotten. Like the signal platoon on the hill; they and their platoon of grunts just sit up there linking comms accross the theater--all but forgotten. And if a soldier is not at the PX on the day of restocking--it is picked clean by the next morning. I've made a small box of goodies up just for these guys (and two gals).

On another note, I have never seen so many P220s in one place in my life. I just hate to see such a waste...but we've become so PC that it is unthinkable to bring this stuff home. Of course, I asked "why..." once. It was funny, we were discussing the "rash" of bayonets being confiscated. This O7 was going off about the illegal smuggling, so I asked him: "sir, if these kids came here and left with 7" sheath knives what is the big deal about a 6" bayonet with no edge on it?" I was told: "this is a military weapon..." Then, just before I was told to shut up, I mentioned the fact that any weapon carried by a soldier was "military" and indeed a "weapon" so he ought to be confiscating leathermans as well...

I'll be fired yet...I suffer fools so badly.

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 11:41:25 (ZULU)

A quick post to wish my bro Jimi the best of kick-ass luck in A-stan as he prepares to remove more "sand fleas" from the desert floor. Jimi "temporarily" left our local PD as he was reactivated into his SF regiment. I'll leave the team ID a mystery 'til this op is done.....quick and silent...... GO GET SOME JIMI!!!!!!! And to everyone else over there, keep it tight and the very best of luck.....we all thank you for your services.....

cmoore....

out...

cmoore
Dago, Cali, USA - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 12:41:44 (ZULU)

Ref: Forbidden Weapons

When I was a "snuffy" we were forbidden to carry sheath knives in the field and bayonets were not issued because "why risk loosing them?". This really bothered me because when you graduated from Recondo School they'd give you one of those neat aviator survival knives and I was hot to show mine off. I always figured it was just a "peace-time" thing and for sure in a combat zone things would be different. But alas, it would seem "you fight as you train" goes for those in command too. That is so lame.......

FWIW, I always kept an edge on my E-Tool that would slice paper....20th Century Battle Axe.

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 12:58:52 (ZULU)

Kevin: E Tools are the ticket. I did the same, one side shave-sharp! It is genetic; I caught Blake in the garage with a file doing the deed. "But Dad, I want to chop fire-wood too" Heheh, that's my boy...and we know he wanted to destroy things he shouldn't...hell, I can't get him to chop fire wood on a good day!

The "have gun, will hunt" theory:

14 yrs old. Inherited a Winny 94 lever gun. Discovered deer hunting.

Hooked on deer hunting, obtained slugger for DNR regulations for local hunting.

Bought a .22 for noise/ cheapo ammo reasons. Developed a taste for rabbit.

Enlisted, moved to Texas---got a .270.

Got talked into a .300WM; discovered moose and caribou hunting.

Bought a .44 SW; discovered Bama pig and alaskan black bear (oops).

Thinking about a .450 marlin....and I sense a new hunting experience coming up.

It seems that I want a gun, then find reasons for owning it. Isn't this bass-akwards?

Anyway, just got done sorting the last of the stuff; four boxes remain for the camps/ commo guys.

The two most asked-for items: Copenhagen and Skoal wintergreen longcut. I split what came in between the 5th Group and the 82d guy--and broke hearts with the other strap-hangers watching. Now, I went down to the theater main REMF hang-out (Camp Arifjan), and noticed that the PX there was jammed full of these items. Hmmm, go figure. My theory is those troops just don't use it like the frontline guys do. It is the modern amphetamine for combat ops. Clerks have little use, I suppose. Now to figure out how to get it moved north...

I had 8 customers today who skipped over two layers and came here. I think I am seen as a "good REMF" after all. The only things I do: No isn't a word allowed in my shop; and if we ain't got it we are required to find out how to get it. Simple rules. Our motto is "it ain't doing no good on a damn shelf"--and the word is out. Almost every conversation I have lately begins with "I was told you can help me..."

oh great, a REMF, who's proud of it...

Joe M

Joe Mahon
Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 13:46:07 (ZULU)

Kevin: Re eyeglasses: Yeah, they are a pain in the butt, but they also tend to help keep stuff from getting in your eyes, especially with the kind you wear. And it has probably already occurred to you that contacts will trap anything in the air like teargas against your eye - which would not be a good thing. Rip those contacts out in a situation like that, and then you'd really be blind. The glasses you have are the best solution I've found, coupled with a wide-brim hat to keep them in the shade.

I've thought about the issue of a .22 trainer, too. I haven't yet, because it occurred to me that the cost of such a rifle would buy a lot of .308 ammo - but I haven't ruled out the idea. And I've thought about using one for smallbore silhouette shooting, to improve my ability to shoot offhand. Of course, one could have George build one up on a 700 action, probably, but that wouldn't be inexpensive. If you discover one that has the feel of a full-blown rifle, please advise.

Joe: suffering fools goes with being in the military. 'Tain't easy. A good high-school buddy retired as a Captain after 20 years in the service largely because of his inability to do so. He was too good at what he did to fire him - but they didn't have to promote him. And I had a few problems with respect to that myself. You're doing a great job for the troops, sir, and REMF or not, have much to be proud of. As for justifying purchases, I can only quote Elliot Aronson: "Man is not a rational animal - man is a rationalizing animal."

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 14:58:05 (ZULU)

Andy's Dad,

for the .22 the two that come to mind are the CZ 452 series (either the Varmint with it's shorter bull barrel or the American with it's longer more "traditional" styling) or a H&R M12. I have a CZ varmint and love it. They come with beautiful wood (not that that matters for your intended purposes) and a very workable adjustable trigger. Mine is good for .65" groups at 100 yards all day long with cheapie american Eagle ammo. The H&R M12 were sold by the CMP some time ago and came with Redfield Palma sights and have provisions for old style Unertl scopes (although there are a couple guys that make "traditional" scope bases/rails that attatch to the rear sight mount and the front block). These are single shot TARGET rifles (Not trainers) and are quite comparable in size to a 40X type. The stocks on 'em are kinda blocky but they were made for prone shooting. The guy at reamerrentals.com has a link to a stock company and they make all sorts of stock and they make 'em for the M12. I know of a guy that put his M12 in one of their "across the course" stocks and it looks GREAT. They have fully adjustable triggers and they SHOOT. I've seen 'em on gunsamerica and the jouster boards. Typical price on one will go from $300-ish for one w/o sights to about $500 for one with sights. Either the CZ or the H&R IMHO are probably the best for this kind of thing. You also might want to check out the Kimber 82's that the CMP is selling. I've heard good things about them too. Here's the web addy for a H&R 5200 (civilian version of M12) on gunsamerica.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976381295.htm

Here's another one on auction arms...even though the seller is obviously on crack concerning his price.....

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=4963716

Hope this helps,

Rich

Rich S.
MD, - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 15:56:24 (ZULU)

Trainer;

The Savage Mk II BV I previously mentioned will be made up to allow me to practice at the treatment plant after work, the police have a range there. It is possible to shoot out to 200yds with little trouble.

I'm gonna try to simulate (the Army taught me that word) my F-class shooting but smaller. I'm gonna use some targets that are the same moa as the 600/1000 targets but at 100/200 or maybe 50/100. This is to keep the sight picture about the same.

I can still shoot the .308 on weekends. But shooting a .22LR is much cheaper than loading .308 match ammo and it saves some barrel life on a 5 year old rifle. Plus, it gave me a reason to buy another rifle.

I mentioned what I was doing to a shooting buddy and he said we should have a rimfire F-class match. He was joking but it did get me to thinking.

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 17:06:56 (ZULU)

Joe,

You made our Sunday morning.

Child Bride is grinnin' like a mule eatin' briers. She was thrilled with the mental image of you finally taking a break, putting your feet up, and eating those chips and dips that she personally selected for you at Wally World. She says that she just wishes she could have sent you a live feed of the Tennessee-Florida game that we watched yesterday (she and her daughter and son are all UT graduates, and TN won, at FL!).....that's what we were doing while the forgotten troops were stuck in the middle of nowhere.

And that's why we are so grateful for what you are doing.

More boxes are in the pipeline. Next shipment will concentrate on the Cope and Skoal WG Longcut.

Y'all Stay Safe!

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 17:08:10 (ZULU)

Jody: someone came up with the idea of a reduced-target .22 rimfire postal match. That idea has some merit, especially for the folks up in snow country who could shoot it indoors, and certainly all the trigger time we can get has to be a good thing - especially at reduced cost. As for me, my major task is to improve my ability to predict the effects of the wind, and I'll be shooting in the Texas State Long Distance Championship next month, and probably the Badlands match in November.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 17:26:24 (ZULU)

Gang, go to: www.long-range.com then look under Targets. I believe they have the reduced targets you're looking for! This is the National Palma Team web site - pretty good info here as well!

Sarge

Sarge
Area 51, NM, USA - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 18:19:14 (ZULU)

Quantico was(is) using Rem 22LR 40X's to simulate M40's. They were using the 6x Leupold scope and reduced targets at 25 and 50yds. Worked really well, too bad no unit's will buy 22LR's for the platoons to play with. Running a range is running a range and drawing ammo is drawing ammo so you might as well use 7.62x51 if you're going to go through all the BS.

On this same note, I'm from the "what they don't know won't hurt me" school of leadership. It's amazing how much you can get done when you're not bothering with time wasting, pogue minutia.

I've never had problems getting spotted by my glasses. A good veil and route selection makes this a non issue. I worry FAR FAR more about blast in the FFP than about relection off glasses. If you're turkey peeking where they can spot your glasses, you're doing it wrong. The possibility of getting the reflection of glasses spotted through your multi layer veg window is very low, IF your FFP selection is good. S/F...Ken M

Ken M
Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 18:25:28 (ZULU)

Ref: .22RF Trainer

A .22RF trainer isn't about saving money for me. I no longer have a local 1,000 yard range and I need to train for wind and range estimation on a 300 yard range. I figure a .22RF would give me the vehicle for that training.

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 18:41:05 (ZULU)

Kevin,

Incoming mail via SC re: .22's. No attatchments.

Rich

Rich S.
MD, - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 19:54:46 (ZULU)

Board members, I received an email on the reflection issue which I have been given permission to post for every one. This is really good information that bears looking at.

Robert

Robert, here is some information about coatings as it concerns light reflection off your eyeglasses. I spent 10 years as field service engineer for major laser manufacturer. I worked for an optics manufacturer for a while. The numbers that follow are approximate but should not be off too much. It depends on the actual material that used to make the AR coating although the materials are

pretty standard.

Just remember, angle of incidence = angle of reflection. Rarely, is there light coming at you from a single source. May not be a large source of light but how much relfection do you need to give away your position?

A good anti-reflection coating (AR) for narrow band (approx. 40nm wide, ie

480nm to 520 nm) will couple almost all of the light through the lens; 99+

% through the lens, less than 1% reflection. Once you open up the

bandwidth for visible spectrum, about 325nm wide (400nm to 700nm but

dependant upon viewers eyes, not all eyes created equal) then the AR

coating effeciency will go down. I'd guess the current AR coating on my

glasses is about 93-97%, giving a reflection of about 7-3%.

I've been really impressed with the Oakly, E-wire 2.1 frames, RX lenses,

AR coated. Curved lenses, corrects vision even out in the peripheral!

Mine are "titanium" color which would not work so great for

glare but they come in black!! Sit down before they tell you the price.

Work subsitizes RX glasses for employees and my portion was still over

$200. Have pair of Square wire, polarized, black lens, RX lenses, black

frame glasses that paid completely out of my pocket to the tune of

$465.00! Great glasses, worth the money. Initial outlay sucks but when

have you really regretted buying the right gear?

I'd post this helps, but I have yet received my password, so I am emailing you directly.

Hope this helped some!

Best regards,

Andrew

tschiemer
central ark, ark, usa - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 22:24:05 (ZULU)

Kevin, my concern is how directly the skill of estimating the wind effect on a .22RF bullet at 300 yards will translate into the ability to estimate the effect of wind on a 175 SMK at 800 to 1000 yards. One of the things I have a reasonably good idea about is the effect of a direct cross-range wind of X MPH on one of those bullets at a given distance. One thing I'm going to try to improve my wind reading ability is to get a good wind meter, and learn to associate a given wind speed, as measured by the meter, with the effects on local terrain. If I can estimate more accurately speed the speed at which the wind is blowing, then I can calculate more accurately the effect of that wind. I won't in the short term be able to clone the ability of J.J. Conway, but I think that will help.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Sunday, September 21, 2003, at 23:04:57 (ZULU)

Joe

Good to hear you got box number one (1) in with the rest of the herd...There's one more coming and I have a few additional items on order for a third go at it too.

If those "Challenge Coins" are in general are as collectible there as here I can send a few more. We have them made up for the shop for trinkets to visiting VIP's (Civilian and Military)...

All

I have my G-A M40A1 style rifle with Wichita sling swivels and wanted to use a Harris bipod... Needed a stud to screw into the #12x40 thread Wichita hole! Just finished making two of them, a real educational time/event. Ordered the die from MSC Industrial Supply ~USD $10.00 but needed to turn the stud on a lathe...used a #8 Grade 3/8" bolt as the donor... Works like a champ and I have not screwed up the original look or design of the stock.

Dave "Doc" King
USA - Monday, September 22, 2003, at 01:05:36 (ZULU)

Hey guys, been a while since I posted anything, have been tied up with some other things. I have been lurking and learning from time to time and I am getting better.

2 things bring me here tonight

1: click on my name for a pic I am very proud of. Got this pronghorn in NE California (once in a lifetime draw) on Sept 7th. He is 14" tall, 7" bases. It was a 166 yard shot with my 300wsm, 150gr balistic tip, droped him in his tracks.

2: I am moving to Hamilton Montana in November. Getting the heck out of this liberal love nest. Bought a house about half way inbetween Hamilton and Darby that backs up to national forest. Made enough off my house in california that I am going up there totaly debt free and some $ in the bank, thats a new one for me! Going to be working as a medic in Hamilton and Missoula.

I wont waste any more space,

Bob

Robert H
NE , Cali, USA - Monday, September 22, 2003, at 05:08:11 (ZULU)

Gents,

Robert H, nice antelope! See you're bringing the young'un up right, too!

E-tools: Had a company Gunny by the name of "Koontz". Those who knew him refered to him as "E-Tool Koontz"...three confirmed in 'Nam with one...sported the Navy Cross for that. Our Company Commander was Major John Livingston (MOH) for the little Ashau Valley debacle, as a grunt company commander. Tough crew.

Still have a wooden handled e-tool. NEVER liked the new collapsible models. They do take a nice edge...

Nice to have a day off and not have to move. Get to get some range time tomorrow.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Monday, September 22, 2003, at 06:35:06 (ZULU)

Sweetie: Received the "PWC" box today. I'm gonna get some yard-bird for my homemade grill, and put that BBQ sauce to good use pronto! y team will be grinnin' for days with real BBQ; the food we get has a "local flavor" no matter what it is--this will be a nice "home" touch. BTW--the theater rear area is on lock down for security--so though KC is right next door, most of my troops haven't been off Doha since December! And Doha is not much bigger than my farm! They call it Club Fed, heheh.

Bruce: I ate chips at the desk...and spilled jalapeno cheese dip on a stack of 2765s (requisition forms--old, manual stuff). I really have three things to do here: work, PT and sleep. Taking a break for me is to move from water to diesel; or warehouse 2 to Camp Victory. There is never a dull moment, and never a "rut" to fall in to; never any burn-out because it is a continuous three ring circus here. I love chaos; I love bringing order and function to a soup sandwhich--and boys, we got that in spades here. I only wish I could expand my footprint by another 40,000 square miles...although I'd probably need to expand to 9 or 10 NCOs...heheh. But to "fix" a bigger mess, now that's fun! Though I took Monday off and the world didn't end; I still like to be there if any of my guys are working...call it good old fashioned leadership---if it's good enough for them, it is good enough for me. Unfortunately, I have one crew in by 0600 and another out by 2200 hrs. I go OFO during the lunch hours though---it's gym time for me...gave up running in daylight (too hard).

OFO: Out F__king off! (more lingo)

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Monday, September 22, 2003, at 11:32:50 (ZULU)

“I wish to be useful, and every kind of service necessary to the public good becomes honorable by being necessary. If the exigencies of my country demand a peculiar service, its claim to perform that service are imperious.” These are the last words of his which can be cited until those which he spoke at the moment of his death.

Those words were:

“I only regret,” he said, “that I have but one life to lose for my country.”

Today is the day he was hanged in 1776.

I wonder how many remembered that CPT Nathan Hale was only 21 at the time; and that he was buried in an unmarked grave; that he never married or held a permanent job; or that, when asked, he stood up and did this task widely held to be shameful---because a guy named Washington said it needed done. He alone, in a room full of others. He wrote so powerful a letter to his brother and his friend that both were destroyed out of fear that they would bolster the rebels' morale. It is also widely held that his remarkable demeanor facing execution was deeply unsettling to the English. This was their first taste of the convictions they faced. A true psy-op...

It is good to be an American; someone please tell Teddy to stop denying it!

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Monday, September 22, 2003, at 14:02:55 (ZULU)

Kevin Mussack, you had written a piece awhile back on the Hide I think about how you and Andy train to read the wind. I have been unable to locate it and would appreciate it if you could steer me in the direction it is if you remember where you wrote it. It was very informative and I would like to print it out for further study.

Also TBA (Texas Brigade Armory) makes a .22lr that looks identical to the M40A1 rifle, same weight and everything. It is pretty expensive. I am not recommending buying from him as I have not heard very good things relating to his customer service, but I bet George Gardner could build one up for you if you wanted to spend that kind of money.

Congrats Robert with the Pronghorn and more especially the move to Montana, that's some beautiful country.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, USA - Monday, September 22, 2003, at 15:35:45 (ZULU)

22's are fun but ... I'm not sure your going to learn much about long range rifle shooting wind doping etc.... .

A .17HMR is a lot closer but still it's not a .308. There are other factors such as recoil, mil dot range estimation etc. Even a .223 is a different ball game.

Brogers
Monday, September 22, 2003, at 16:41:57 (ZULU)

Mike Miller: Gooch may be right. Our legal system has nothing to do with right, reason, truth or honor. It's a game that lawyers play to enrich themselves. It no more makes sense to openly discuss your case than it does to show your hole cards in a poker game.

Okay kids, repeat after me: Leupold, Leupold, Leupold.

CDC'
Monday, September 22, 2003, at 19:09:53 (ZULU)

Bill-- Thanks for the response ref: AR-30. I've seen one of the .300 Win Mags and they seem smaller than the .338. Maybe I need to take a look side by side or sumfin.

Steve

Steve Burris
NOVA , NOVA, USA - Monday, September 22, 2003, at 21:40:47 (ZULU)

I do not post much (3 times in 4 years) wanting to learn by reading what others have to say.

Anyhow I read once on the Duty Roster a story about a party being given where a lady who was the host felt sorry for the Marine guards when she took cookies to them and after offering them to one he polietly said "i don't eat that sh&t." Being appaled at his comments she saw a high ranking Marine general and went over to him and told him what had happened. His reply after taking a long puff on his fine cigar was then fu*K them if they don't want them.

Would anyone here know where I could get this story ?

Thanks.

Jim

Jim
PA, USA - Monday, September 22, 2003, at 22:31:49 (ZULU)

Been a while since I've even lurked around here. You miss a few days and it takes you hours of reading to catch up. You put off catching up and next thing you know, it's two weeks later and the amount of reading is overwhelming. As you all know, you have to read the ENTIRE DR--cause there's gold burried in the posts you thought you had no interest in reading.

Then my wife reminded me that I'm a genius! What she actually said was: "You're a real f***ing genius, you are!", but I knew what she meant. So I used my enormous brain to tackle the problem and I'm now catching up muy rapido.

I copy and paste a full page of the DR into a text-to-speech program and hit the "speak" button. Now, I can clean a rifle, pay bills or watch Three Stooges DVDs (with the sound off) while I have the DR read to me!

Technology is so cool!

wuzzagrunt
New York, NY, USA - Monday, September 22, 2003, at 22:42:15 (ZULU)

.....Then my wife reminded me that I'm a genius! What she actually said was: "You're a real f***ing genius, you are!",.....

I imagine counting slowly to ten....long deep breaths....never hit a woman.........time to go buy another new rifle and retire to the "Man room".....

Whew! Glad I gots a understandin one.

Deputy Doug

Doug Bourdo
K Town, WI, USA - Monday, September 22, 2003, at 23:46:44 (ZULU)

"Goodies for the Grunts" accounting:

Previous Balance: $310.12

Contribution: $50.00 (Thanks, Flattop!)

Expenditures Today: $116.00 on Cope and Skoal, $330.00 on Jerky

Balance: -$85.88

Yeah, I know, we acted like the Democrats, spent more than we had collected.

I'm confident that we will get it back.

We drove to Albuquerque to meet with a retired welder who opened a jerky store, having made jerky for himself and friends for years. Story in the ABQ paper on Sunday profiled him, and mentioned that he had done a promo with a local C/W radio station, whereby he sold specially tagged 1 oz. bags of jerky for $2.00, half the proceeds going to the Red Cross, and the jerky to the troops.

Joe, we will include the article in the box.

The guy is super. I explained what we were up to, and he sold us 300 bags for $330.00.

$1.10 per oz. is a super price, as this stuff is dry as a bone, so you're not paying for water content like you do in the grocery store stuff. He sells to his wholesalers for $1.30/oz. and up.

We got an assortment of flavors.....garlic, salt and pepper, red chile, green chile, chipotle (that's smoked jalapeno's for those not familiar) and Habanero. Nice thing is that everything is in one ounce bags, which should make it easier on Joe to divvy up. Be sure and do some QC on a few bags, Joe.

Then to the Rez.....could only get the owner to come down from $30.25/log to $29.00/log (10 cans per log). Still good, no tax on the Rez. 2 logs Cope, 2 logs Skoal WG Long cut.

Will try later at another shop on the Rez and see if I can get a price war going.

Another great box going to Joe and our folks at the sharp end, thanks to the generosity of all you posters and lurkers!

Child Bride is packing it as I type.....God Bless you folks.

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 00:05:26 (ZULU)

Jim: there is a version of that story in which the general in question was the Commandant of the Marine Corps, Al Gray. It's contained in the book _Swift, Silent, and Surrounded_ by Andrew A. Bufalo. The author is a retired Marine Master Sergeant who spent some time in recon. The book can be ordered from S&B Distribution - click on my name for the link. Andy doesn't attribute that story to a particular source. I recommend the book to anyone interested in Marine sea stories and lore. Some of the stories in the book are Andy's, but others contributed many of them.

By the way, in Andy's version, the Commandant's response, after he verified the story, was, "Well, &^$% 'em, then! Don't give him any!"

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 00:07:44 (ZULU)

Lady & Gentlemen? ;o),

Do any of you happen to be instructors who teach concealed carry classes? Missouri finally passed the law that allows CCW; but you need to pass some sort of a class, among other things, before a permit will be issued. The whole thing is pretty much up to your local sheriff. Since I'm already an NRA pistol instructor I thought maybe I could come up with a class that the sheriff would like. Any ideas or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The beautiful Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 03:47:03 (ZULU)

Doc, click on my name for the link to the Texas Concealed Handgun Instructor's Association. That's probably a good place to start for contacts. The class I took spent most of the time talking about the applicable laws: where you can carry, where you can't, and the laws applicable to the justifiable use of deadly force. There was a section about fiream safety, both in handling and in storage. There was also a tape about defusing potential situations involving interpersonal conflicts. There was also a range portion which involved a shooting test. The shooting test was pretty trivial.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 05:35:51 (ZULU)

Lindy,

Thanks. That is exactly what I needed.

Doc

Doc Holloway
The beautiful Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 11:59:51 (ZULU)

Andy's Dad...I take my old Kimber 82C to the range/bench almost all the time when doing any rifle work. Shooting it allows me to keep shooting while bbls. cool and the practice is definitely worth the time spent on the .22..As to learnng to dope wind, I shoot the .22 at fifty yards mostly, sometimes at 100, and if it's windy try to hold for it. Keeping all your shots on a one inch paster shooting in gusty conditions is challenging. Does it transfer to shooting the .308? It can't hurt , I don't think, even though the drift is nowhere the same.

Leupold Service...Sent a 2x7 Compact back to Leupold 10 days ago..It was acting up on one of my Hornets. Asked them to check it out and install a target elevation knob as well{$60.00}. Got it back yesterday via express mail..Now that's service!!

outa here

Markwell
The Alleghenies, WV, - Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 13:14:19 (ZULU)

CDC, Dan thanks. All my prior posts on this where just to get guys I helped to come forward to give information on my dealings with the company. I did not want to start any negative thing just wanted info and since the web is where most my related contacts where it seemed like the place to go. You guys are right in that since I have filed a law suit its now time to say little about this, except in court.

ONce again anyone I helped on this issue please contact me off line.

Undude/Mike

MikeMIller
CA, - Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 15:13:28 (ZULU)

Jody, and any one else with a 22lr, and basicaly any rim fire, do your selves a favour and beg borrow steal, buy or make a rim thickness guage and then sort your ammo into batches of like rim thickness, you will see a dramatic improvement in accuracy/group size over ammo just picked at random out of a box. I believe Brownells carry a rim thickness guage.

Ref 22 lr military applications, we had the Nr 8 which was basicaly a 22lr enfield, it was used for training when we used enfields, used for general recreation and target shooting when we got the L1A1(FAL). We had an adaptor sub caliber for the L1A1 which consisted of a magazine with a 22 lr mag pinned inside it, some working parts ie breach block and carrier etc and an insert barrel that slotted inside the 7.62 barrel, the things where fun to use but a bitch for stoppages. When we got the L85A1 /86A1 (SA 80) weapons system what we had there was again some different working parts and a chamber insert and a plastic magazine for the 22 ammo, the chamber insert was basicaly the same shape as the 223 round with a thick portion at the rear that fitted into the locking lug recesses of the rifle, and it was rifled after the chamber, the 22.lr round jumped from this into the 223 bore.we used scaled down targets and the indoor or out door 30m range in camp often.

I once got a hold of a 22lr version of an AK which was captured in Gulf 1, it was a sod to get it on my licence, i made some scope mounts for it and put a nickel 3-9x42 on it. it didn't have a magazine some i made one out of parts from the adaptor sub cal from the L1A1 magazine and a cut down AK mag, added some emetal and it was ready to rock and roll, full auto 22's make for lots of fun, especialy with a moderator on board. Due to changes in the UK firearms law it had to go, i then got a Brunner (CZ) instead.

Shooting at 100m + with a 22 sure as hell gets you used to adjusting your scope turrets though.

Pete.

Peter Lincoln
D - Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 17:07:11 (ZULU)

These guys have excellent prices on Loopys.

http://www.reamerrentals.com/quick_price_list.htm

Has anyone here done business with them? If so, how are they to do business with?

CDC'
Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 18:03:17 (ZULU)

Hey rostah,

Kofi Annan...you sack of shite...Time to move the UN to Belgium, that's where the indecisions are made anyhoo..

Sinister Dave,

You still at Benning? Ya haven't happened to have seen any Scottish barrels floating around the armourers, they seem to have hopped a plane to your neck of the woods..

take care yall

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Jockland - Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 19:21:55 (ZULU)

JR,

Nice to see ya back on the DR. Nice talking to ya the other night. Have you had chance to look at the email I sent? Any thoughts about my idea of chopping down the barrel on the 10/22 to reduce back pressure fouling my mags? Oh, yeah, don't forget that revised price for the barrel with the flutingd and threading and stuff. Should be that bit nearer afetr saturday and Ponteland the weekend after.

Pete,

Got your mobile sorted yet? And did you get chance to check the price of the rings? I know last weekend wasn't the best time. Oh, and my Boss is a bit 'distracted' at the moment so I haven't pestered him in case he says 'no' just cos hes in a mood. Checked out some flights too. Damn they can be had cheap from Stanstead. I'll email tomorrow with the details. Oh, and your home email keeps bouncing me.

Cheers

Jon

Jon Beardsley
Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 21:17:29 (ZULU)

Hey hawgs,

I gots a coupla questions fer yiz.

I've decided I NEED a shotgun. I don't gots one of me own (just an old Ithaca 37 lightweight that belongs to my uncle). I figure this will primarily be a home defense kinda deal. Now I'm looking at the ubiquitous Rem 870 in the "home defense" flavor or possibly the police or the marine magnum. I've been seeing a lot about the new FN pump guns lately too. Are they basically Win 1300's? Any thoughts on the Hk Fabarm FP6? Should I stick to pump? Although they're pricey any one have any experience with the Rem 11-87 police models?

Secondly,

I'm thinking about acquiring my first class III toy. I'm thinking of an integrally surpressed Ruger MkII. Any thoughts on 'em? Would I be better off with a detatchable "can" and say a Walther P22? Who/what are some of the better suppressor makers out there? I'm also toying with a HK tactical and "can" set up. Once again, who are the "best" makers? AWC? Gemtech? OPS? Sound tech? Lauer? Now, as most (if not all of you by now) know, I'm no "operator" or anything like that, so I don't necessarily need some million-dollar super whiz bang thing. It's just that these "toys" are not cheap and I don't want to get hosed by some shade tree machinist with a liscence. Any thoughts here?

Thanks guys,

Rich S.

SCLE 35

Rich S.
MD, - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 03:56:31 (ZULU)

ALL;

Here's an anti-gun website that list people, companies, and organizations that support gun control.

Straight from the enemy camp: www.stopgunviolence.org/supporters

I tried to set the URL to my name. Maybe it will work.

I won't support any person or business that supports our foes. Granted, this is America, they have the right to support who they choose. Well, so do I!

THANKS Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 03:57:29 (ZULU)

Doc Holloway-the NRA has a Personal Protection Instructor certification. Get the cert before you do anything else to cover your own behind. I teach in Virginia and the requirment is for a safety course. Since I teach judicious use of force and had my lesson plans blessed by the head of the local ciruit court, I'm not only their favorite, but my butt is well covered.

11-87 Police- I've had once since ... ah about 10 years. Haven't had any reliability problems, but I'm very careful about cleaning. I also carry spare o-rings in the shotgun case. Only problem with the Police version is that it's basically a magnum load only gun. Won't auto cycle with anything less than 1 1/4 oz loads. Cutting a longer tube down and then fitting rifle sights should give you the ability to shoot about anything, but would be more expensive. I looked into retro-fitting the gas valve, but the gas ports in the barrel of the Police version are the wrong size, and would be very difficult to change.

WR Moore
Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 05:10:19 (ZULU)

Peter Lincoln

I tried to e-mail you from the site, but the Rocket scientists at AOL bounce it back.

I finally have Alloy rings if you are still in the market, let me know what you want.

Thanks

Marty

Badger Ordnance

Marty
Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 06:23:01 (ZULU)

Jon, i'm back at work, and i was dumb enough to leave my damn gun safe keys up at home so i'm kicking my self in the ass, i hope i can get the ranger to lend me a rifle for the week. email at home is f#$***d. i'll send the new addy out via work email.Friday was grim, nice service but a hard hard day.The goddamn gutter press are bieng a pain in the ass,you wouldn't think the death of a young girl in a car accident would be national news paper and TV stuff, and despite the wishes of the family that no names or pictures appear, the press went and did what the hell they wanted, one lot even wanted to put the film of the life saving attempts (yes it was all filmed) on to a trailer film to be shown in the cinema before movies like they show the aids info and say no to drugs things, well thats all ok if it prevents the same shit happening again, but they should respect the parents wishes that it was just too soon for that, the poor lass wasn't even buried at this point.

He insists the rings are 175, but we weren't in the shop so he couldn't check, i'll let you know. So get on the airbus from stansted and get your selves over then.. Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 06:42:46 (ZULU)

The Ithaca M37 is a beautiful shotgun. And there is nothing wrong with 2 3/4 loads for home defense. You can probably find a used 20" cylinder barrel, or used barrel to cut down. And it is cheap. And it's an M37 - a beautiful shotgun. Talk to your uncle.

My "home" shotgun is a Winchester Model 12, with a surplus military barrel. Looks good just leaning against the wall.

P. Hayden
USA - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 06:50:16 (ZULU)

Tactical intervention specialists. I am looking To get a few of Mike's slings. Mike I know you are busy right now, But some one told me you had a large over run of slings from a military contract or what not and to look on the SC Px. I did look on the Px and did not see them listed. I am a dealer and can get them from Brownells with no problem. I just thought if it supported the roster in any way I would get them there.

I am just checking to see if they are on there or somewhere else, Before I go through Brownells. Looking for 2 quick cuff #1's and 2 #2's. Thanks Keith

Keith Lucas
Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 11:15:18 (ZULU)

Rich S....

Get an 870, put Ghost ring sights on it, shoot Fed H132 Tactical buck, and don't look back!!!!!!!!!

outa here

Markwell
The Alleghenies, WV, - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 12:24:37 (ZULU)

Shotguns: I have a Mossberg 590, which has ghost-ring sights for launching slugs if the fight gets a bit distant. Jeff Cooper, though, recently noted that Ruger has began production of a side-by-side shotgun with external hammers. While they intended it to be used in cowboy action shooting, such a gun is excellent for home defense, because the gun can be loaded and the hammers carefully lowered. A gun in that condition can be left unattended for years, because no springs are under tension. It's a good idea to put a piece of tape over the muzzles to keep spiders or other creatures from taking up residence.

Scattergun Technologies, now owned by Wilson Combat, does a wonderful job of converting a standard Remington shotgun into a fighting tool. Click on my name for the web link.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 12:29:14 (ZULU)

Sweetie: Got the catalogue, and yeah, I DID read it on the throne...haha. You must've spoken with my wife---she says the same thing!

Which leads to a question:

Is the H&S "Model Seven" drop-in replacement stock (sporter profile) worth a dang? It's for the boy's .260; the factory wood is unsatis-factory. Heheh. He's also grown a bunch since I left...so 13.5" pull ought to be okay...just need to know if it's worth the bills.

No box day. Maybe tomorrow...

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 12:39:28 (ZULU)

Mike,

I offered a donation to help out with the legal thing--but you graciously refused. I will respect that, but:

Why not offer some slings up for sale with a mark-up of say 10 bucks? ---a sorta "mikey defense fund" sling special deal. I'd bet you could buy an hour or two of lawyer time just from this site's business alone!

If you do this, email me pronto---I'll buy three right now instead of waiting til my return to CONUS....

I hate the legal axe to grind mentality we have evolved in this country (errr, "that country...) and I hate the damned lawyers who keep fishing up new angles of "liability." IOT prevent a rant: it all starts with personal responsibility...we ought to try teaching that in school for a change. If ya burn yer crotch with hot coffee, you ought to be labelled stupid; not "victim." There, I'm done.

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 12:50:14 (ZULU)

Hey Lindy, I have two Rossi Overland Coach Shotguns in 12ga & 20ga, Side by side, 2x2 triggers & hammers !! Great Home Defence Weapons, and the 20ga is good for Wabbit, Quail, Dove & Cat's !! take care, be safe >>> Don =:o)

Don Rutledge
Riverside, CA, U.S.A - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 15:38:59 (ZULU)

While moving, I lost Geoff Corn's address and phone number. Would someone e-mail it to me?

CDC'
Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 15:46:06 (ZULU)

Joe and others on slings. What I will do is offer a sling discount. Instead of 75.00 plus 5.00 shipping to US. I will offer the M24 sling for 65.00 shipped to USA. I have some over runs of Tan in the M24s and thats what I have been offering for sale. I am working on OD Green and Black for an order right now and should have some extras of those colors next week.

To get my mind off all this crap I have been working on slings when not at the range.

As to Lawyers, when I decided to sue I went out and hired Randy Brumbagh as my lawyer. He was/is Unertl and Armalites lawyer so it seemed like the guy to hire in my case. He has been successful before.

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
CA, - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 16:30:18 (ZULU)

Ref: AR-10 Upper

My GA built AR-10 upper just arrived. It's sitting behind my desk waiting to go home with me.......she's a beauty....thanks George.

Cough! Cough! I don't feel so good....I may have to go home early.

;-)

Ref: Browning High Power

I sent my BHP to Cylinder & Slide for some repairs because the barrel was shot out and it was "doubling" from time to time. I talked with Bill yesterday. Either I spend a lot of money or scrap it. I've had this pistol for longer than I care to remember and it has quite a lot of sentimental value to me....so here goes, we'll fix it. Scrapping it would be like putting down your best bird dog.....I guess I'll just have to pay the vet bills.

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 16:58:47 (ZULU)

So, Kevin, how many rounds did you put through that HP? It takes a lot of rounds to wear out a nine barrel. So, I guess what Bill is gonna essentially do is jack up the rear sight, and drive a new gun underneath... :-)

We used to own a wooden sailboat, and in that community, the question arises as to the distinction between a restoration and building a new boat that looks a lot like the old one. A friend of mine essentially built a new boat by buying parts for his old boat one piece at a time at the most expensive marine hardware stores in the world. Marine parts are on an equivalent basis with aircraft parts, if not worse. But, we gotta spend money on something...

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 17:35:30 (ZULU)

Here is an email I just received:

Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan. what we

need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message.

Robin Williams' plan...(Hard to argue with this logic!)

"I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for

peace. So, here's one plan:

1. The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their

affairs, past &present. You know, Hitler, Tojo, Noriega, Milosovich

and the rest of those 'good ole boys.' We will never "interfere" again.

2. We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with>

Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We

would station troops at our borders. No one sneaking through holes in

the fence.

3. All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and

leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be

gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they

are. France would welcome them.

4. All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90

days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be

allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide

here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab

drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5. No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they

don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.

6. The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy

wise. This will include developing non-polluting sources of energy but will

require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness.

The caribou will have to cope for a while.

7. Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel

for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. They can go

somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells

filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we

will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain,

cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is

stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little,

if anything.

9. Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. We don't

need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would

make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10. All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one

can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.

The Language we speak is ENGLISH.....learn it...or LEAVE...

Now, ain't that a winner of a plan.

"The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your poor, your

tired, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'You

want a piece of me?'"

TonyM
FL, US of A!!!! - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 17:44:57 (ZULU)

Kevin,

Good move with the HP. Here's an idea. If you shoot a lot of HP (and it sure sounds like you do), get the old warhorse all fixed up and pretty, and keep it as an heirloom (but still shoot it, just now as much). You know, for you to give to Andy someday, and his son, and his son. Get one of the new ones (I just got one and I love it) and shoot the snot outta that one.

Just a thought.

BTW, how's the .22 search going?

Rich

Rich S.
MD, - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 18:17:16 (ZULU)

Lady and Gents,

Kevin, tough choice on your C&S Hi-Power. I had Bill do one about 10 years ago. Buried Bo-mars and all the goodies. Sent it back for a check up at 6K rounds and had it master polished and frame hard chromed. Incredible is the word. If you're really wedded to it have the work done and don't look back. Dog's and guns...pay the vet bill!

Also, bought a Tactical BHP in .40 Short and Weak. This is a WINNER!

Flawless out of the box with the best trigger I've ever felt. Took the damn mag safety out and it rocks.

Fix it up and leave it to Andy. Me, when I go, Nicolas(my grandson) is going to get my custom stainless commander. Want him to have a piece of history. I carried an old slabsides for over 30 years and never found it wanting...neither will he.

Funny how John Brownings designs seem to stand the test of time. Doubt the new tactical tupperware will.

Rich, almost any shotgun will do, if it is reliable. I have had most of the auto's and pumps. I stump for the 870's and Mossberg 590's. Both are mil-spec. Use "Low Recoil" tactical buck from Federal or one of the major makers. Improved cylinder is the order of the day.

For the bucks the Mossberg can't be beat.

JR, welcome back. What do we have to do to order one of your new "Obermeyer" spec barrels here in the US? Form 6?

On .22's: Would love to have one as an understudy gun for my tactical stuff. Not to mention just plain fun!

Would love to have one of the early Springfiled M-22's...

If you want a high grade .22 look at the American Custom Guncrafters Guild's raffle rifle this year. Ye-haw! Raffle ticket is only $20.00 bucks and goes to support a great organization. They only sell 4 thousand tickets.

I'm hoping to win this year.

Mike, will hit you off line.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 19:10:36 (ZULU)

Hello folks,

I didn't go anywhere, just didn't have anything worth mentioning..Took a break..Good to be back..

22 rimfires as training for tac,

I think they are a great training aid for shooting in general..Ever see 'dem tiny lil targets they shoot? Lordy, lordy, and if you get into 3 positional 22 and master that, by gawd, that experience will definitely transfer to distance shooting...

Wes,

If you have questions about how to go about ordering a Border 5r, try this email:

geof@borbar.scotborders.co.uk

Dr boss..He'll get ya sorted..Don't worry, we're planning on bringing a bunch over to the states and make them a little more accessible...Wes, if you looked at our website, it even confuses me..Needs some serious updating..

Seem to be shooting all right..The scuttlebutt is John Bloomfield who runs the GB palma team sounds like he may outfit them with the Border 5r, as one of his shooters outfitted with one just can't get enough of that 'v' bull..Which is good, getting more feedback on 'em anyway..

Boy it's been so busy, I'm contemplating a 2r rifling profile..haha..And lapping monkeys..

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Jockland - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 20:11:24 (ZULU)

shalom

happy new year to you all

my god give us peace on earth.

keep shooting for fan on paper/metal .

avi

for those loking for 22, like the combet rifel.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976349181.htm

avi
haifa, israel, israel - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 20:31:15 (ZULU)

JR......from another board, I picked up some great "single malt" at a small establishment just outside of "Stanley" Scotland back in April.....super good !!!!

It's too bad we could never link up over a bottle or three !!!

JRMoore

JRMoore
Northern, Virginnie, USofWonderfulA - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 21:33:44 (ZULU)

Re: Neck sizers and bullet seaters

I'm curious what some of you are using in the way of neck sizers and bullet seaters. Personally, I've been experimenting with a Lee Collet die and a Redding "S" F.L. bushing die using a .335 bushing with IMI brass.

I had one gentleman inform me that he uses a Pacific neck sizer and a Lee floating stem seater and getting competition grade accuracy in his Win. Stealth. He went on to say that his experience with the Redding bushing dies work best "if" the brass is turned. He's also using RL-15 and 175JLK VLD.

The Redding Competition dies (neck sizer and seater) look interesting but very pricey and wondering if worth the difference.

Mk4
Texas, Remember 9-11, United States of America - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 23:36:24 (ZULU)

Folks,

Thanks to a very generous contribution from our own Reeldoctor, "Goodies for the Grunts" is back in the black to the tune of $14.12. (Please remember, we were well into the red!) Thanks, Bro.

I anticipate that the balance will escalate. When it does, Child Bride and I will reduce it as quickly as possible!

Chris, I think your idea of linking up with Wes and starting a rival operation is the best idea I have heard in years! And CB said "you're welcome," to the thanks for the thanks!

You folks (can't say guys anymore, now that we have Sweetie on board!)are pure gold.

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 23:37:33 (ZULU)

Mk4,

Sinclair sells those Redding dies for almost half what Redding wants for 'em.

I didn't like spending even that much on 'em. But I've been usin' 'em for a coupla years now. Can you say "SubMOA@ 1K"?

Forsters are good too.

I use Lapua brass and don't have to turn 'em.

Hope this helps.

Spud

Dennis
merced, Kalifornicateya, usa - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 00:23:41 (ZULU)

Spud,

So, you're using the Redding Competition Die set?

Mk4
Texas, Remember 9-11, United States of America - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 01:09:32 (ZULU)

Maj. Joe Mahon, would you check your email and get back to me please, it's important.

Tony Burkes

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas , USA - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 04:40:58 (ZULU)

Gents,

MK4, I use the Redding Competition Dies in 6.5 X .284 and .308 Winch.

I do not neck turn and use Lapua Brass in the .308 and Norma in the 6.5 X .284

The 6.5 turns in 1 1/4" groups at 600 yards and the .308 does about 3-4"'s.

Spendy, but WELL worth it.

I don't recommend neck turning tactical loads that may see heavy duty and less than pristine conditions.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 05:19:33 (ZULU)

Dave King: Got one box---much needed muzzle caps and goodies, thanks sir!

Tony B: Why don't you wake up and check your email? It's only 0400 out there...Heheh, there is that little 8 hour difference between us, and I do sleep now and then...besides, I forward all my email from here into my .kuwait account--where you compete with little things like critical ammo shortages and water emergencies...gawd. I'd apologize for it taking me 12 hours to respond...but then again, I won't...just give me a day or two from now on, then hail me.

This is my lunchtime, sometimes I log on at night after I quit, but I do come here daily if I'm in town, and maybe that makes it seem like this is all I do? Oh, well...

Good news--a LTC shows up Saturday and I may yet swing by for that birth-thingy.

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 11:20:41 (ZULU)

Dies?

I use the Redding bushing die for LR precision and a small base RCBS, I think, for the semi auto. Don't try to use fire formed brass for a M14. It will eventually bite ya.

Lindy,

After owning a marina/Mercury dealership for 12 years and a flight school for 7 or so, You must've never bought parts for a Piper or Beechcraft. But you're right about one thing, they are pricey. The liability lawyers have gone after both industries with a vengence. I can only wonder how much an aircraft part would cost if it were legal to have a few drinks before the flight.

Avi,

Shalom. Glad you're still with us.

Kev,

You will get a hat, I promise!! Keep the HP! I've got a Colt Mod.70 with the same plan. What kind of lower do you have for the AR-10 upper. Will any Colt or Bushmaster do?

John

Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 13:13:48 (ZULU)

MK4,

Bro, you already have the "S" type, just buy the Redding seater, and you will be good to go.

The .335 bshg is fine, I use the .334/.336, depending on what I want to see.

One thing I would do, is dump the expander ball on the "S" type.

Use the Lee to just straighten the necks( new brass) and size with the "S" unit, and bshg.

Good to go.

I do not size NEW brass, nor turn necks,in a custom .308, w/ the IMI, and 175's w/ the right powder combo/primer expect sub .5 moa @ 500+, IF you do your part.

Two Shoes

Two Shoes
Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 13:21:30 (ZULU)

Don Rumsfeld on why we are on the right course in Iraq - and why it's NOT a quagmire. Click on my name for the link.

Reloading: I use the Redding "S" die, and, like Shoes, with the expander ball removed. I use a Lyman "M" die - thanks, 'Lito - for expanding the necks after sizing, and also to straighten out any dents in the case mouth on new brass. I use Lapua brass, and don't resize them before the first loading. I tried that, and found that they don't need it. The Lyman "M" die puts a slight bell in the case mouth, so I don't need to chamfer the case mouth, and I use a taper crimp die - I use a Dillon, but any will do - to take out that slight expansion after seating. I use a Redding competition seater - it's really nice to be able to change the seating depth for a different load with repeatability.

I don't turn necks. I think it's unnecessary for Lapua brass, and not a good idea for a tactical shooter. And I don't anneal brass. If you can reload brass at least 5 times, even Lapua brass is a small part of your cartridge cost, say a fifth of the cost of the bullet and powder. I'd rather spend my time and effort elsewhere. Your mileage may vary.

John: the rule is no smoking within 24 hours of a flight, and no drinking within 50 feet of the aircraft, iddn't it? :-)

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 14:24:10 (ZULU)

Hi all good to get back from Holiday and to read the site again. Went to the Dominican Republic managed to miss most of Hurricane Isabel only to be caught in the earthquake 6.5 on the Rictor scale it never rains when it can pour.

Dry
UK - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 14:32:37 (ZULU)

John,

I got an "Eagle Arms" lower for the AR-10....made by Armalite.

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton, New York, USA - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 14:49:37 (ZULU)

Well i guess i'll never live this down.. i went hunting last night with a Blaser R93.. it was the only thing i could borrow at short notice, and i guess beggars can't be choosers. hmm

It wears a Zeiss 3-12x56, which is a nice bright scope. heared plenty of movement, didn't see anything, (no bino's) pigs are off the feeder as the whole acorn mast seems to have come down over the last week, they have been digging the hell out of the meadow and the sides of the tracks, they tend to pig out (ha ) on acorns and then go mad looking for sligs bugs and worms to get some protien in em, its this time of year that the do most field dammage, rooting the hell out of meadows in search of protien, anways see what i can come up with tonight.

Was at court today, guess i'm content with the out come, the judge was a real darling too, hell i guess i'd have dropped the whole case for a date with her, and i bet Brian would like her too, out o my league though,,

Dry welcome back mate, i guess the trip gave a whole new meaning to... "did the earth move for you too darling?"

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 15:56:10 (ZULU)

Joe M, you asked about deer seasons in WI during Oct. The only thing open is archery or muzzleloader on the Apostle Islands. Jihad vs Bambi starts in the CWD zone on 31 Oct. S/F...Ken M

Ken M
Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 18:35:41 (ZULU)

Pete the piggie poacher,

What ever happened of the rusty Heym? or the rusty roof, hell I could use a laugh...Jon's been contemplating a Scottish/American rebarrel, mang, he's gonna be one step ahead of you next year, ha..Oh, hey, I might be taking my christmas holiday on the continent this year, got 2 weeks I thinks..Suppose you'll be over here, ha, no but if everything goes as planned and I get your way I'll give youse a ring, we'll have to pull a pint or two...Did you guys get to watch Galileo snuff it?

Wes,

Got some info from the boss today..Aint no thang to get you a Border barrel eh..Since you lives up in the rainy Northwest, we'd probably send out to OK Weber, and he can deal with the import/export forms(I'll just make sure to buy him a pint in Germany next year)..If you ever want to order, just order direct by phone or email, or you can email me with whatever details and I'll see to it..

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Jockland - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 18:46:13 (ZULU)

Hey All!

I am putting together a Rapid Deployment Kit. We will be taking orders now. Delivery in two to four weeks on average. The kit will consist of the following:

Remington 700 Police in .223, .308 or .300 WM, or LTR in .223 or .308.

A heavy duty All Weather Travel vault, with inner lining cut for rifle and accessories. Leupold Mil-dot scope (choice of several), 65 inch pound T-wrench, Sinclair Bore Guide, M1913 Spec flat base (20 moa taper available), Tactical Rings, Dewey Cleaning Rod, Sniper Data book, Databook cover in Woodland, and a mil range card. The rings will be lapped to assure alignment. The scope will be zeroed with either 168 or 175 Fed GM and a test target will be supplied. Base kits will start around $1150 With Out scope. We have multiple choices for optic and will consider other options upon customer request. Final price will be effected by your choice of glass. Turn around time from date of order will be approximately two to three weeks. Must ship to your local FFL unless you are a PA resident.

Other accessories are available to kit purchases at a reduced price. Optics options are Leupold, Nikon, and Springfield to name a few. others available upon request.

We will also be offering a deluxe kit with all the goodies including bolt take down tool, lug cleaning tool, and other none standard accessories. POR.

Please contact Sniper Country PX direct for comments and questions.

scpx@comcast.net

610-323-6543.

Scott
Pottstown, PA, USA - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 20:29:49 (ZULU)

Andy's Dad--

What exactly did you have Mr. Gardner do to the upper? The reason I ask is that I am planning on Sniper 1 at SMTC next year and am thinking about improving my AR10A4 to do it.

Thanks,

Steve Burris

Steve Burris
NOVA, NOVA, USA - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 20:57:18 (ZULU)

TonyM,

I think Robin Williams is much too liberal to have penned that piece.

I've seen it before, and I like the sentiments expressed. Wish I knew who really wrote it.

God Bless America!

Mike

BMG Mike
Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 21:20:17 (ZULU)

Mk4,

I use the seater w/ the mic adjustment and I neck size with the bushing die with the mic on it, too.

I also have a regular neck bushing style without the mic on top. I think that it is sufficient for that operation.

Take care and Semper-Fi!

Spud

Dennis
merced, Kalifornicateya, usa - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 22:06:51 (ZULU)

Hawgs,

Anyone know if Competitor Arms of Townsend, Taxxachusetts is still in business? Got a look at one of their rifle caliber single shot rear rotary breech type pistols when I was in canada. Looks like it might have been the forerunner to the Magnum Research pistol, I believe the Lone Wolf or something. Local dealer has a box full of barrels mostly in pistol caliber. Al Gore's I-net failed to come up with anything while searching for it.

Doug

Doug Bourdo
K town, WI, USA - Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 23:33:44 (ZULU)

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