Monday, September 1, 2003, at 03:36:15 (ZULU)
Congrats to you and your Child Bride. Many happy returns!
Hey! Let's start the argument about how to spell chiles again!
The local market got a bunch of Hatch NM green in a couple of weeks ago, and I've been having some great chow! These are about the best green chiles that can pass over a man's tongue.
I just got finished roasting and peeling several pounds for the freezer, and my hands are on fire! Other than wearing gloves (too late now!) do you have any homegrown recipes for relief?
Regards
Mike
BMG Mike
Monday, September 1, 2003, at 03:36:15 (ZULU)
Try rinsing your hands with cold beer (Dos Equis is the best). Then drink eight or twelve.
You'll feel better.
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 04:40:37 (ZULU)
Well, during one particular day of checking "lots of HOT peppers" he would... as all men do, relieve himself (using his "pepper" tainted hands). That night he was romantically inclined and....well, lets just say....he really set his wife on FIRE.
So, for you chile pickers, watch them contaminated "peckers." The wimmen folk may REALLY hate you in the morning ;))))
Mk4
Texas, God Bless America, United States of America - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 04:57:08 (ZULU)
Just got a nice deal on a 338 Lapua in a Sako TRG-S unfired. Any help on load recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Shooting a 7.5 pound unbraked 338 is pure joy for those with masochistic tendencies......................
Mike in Texas
Granbury, Texas, - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 06:01:05 (ZULU)
Don Rutledge
Hemet, CA, U.S.A - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 08:34:44 (ZULU)
Email in bound w/ attachments. Clean as the gov't can make them. I refrained from sending one photo; gratuitous gore. It was a 900m .50 cal head shot. The "after" picture ruins your appetite. Like John Wayne said in True Grit, "Too much gun..."
I'm going to the range tomorrow. That's the plan as long as nothing else comes up. Can't wait to try the 150-250 exposure! I'm gonna make that damn shot. lus, I get to play NCO again, if only for an hour or two as a lane safety/ coach on the firing line. Ha! That was the price of admission--the unit needed some range qualified help, and they give ya bullets as an incentive! Shit, I'd pay them for the chance to train troops!!!
Thought for the day (Eisenhower):
"Take your duty seriously; but never yourself"
Joe M.
Joe Mahon
Monday, September 1, 2003, at 09:08:17 (ZULU)
The BTU scale on habaneras is quite impressive but still short of the the little buckshot chile pequine(sp)that grows wild down in South Texas. Ever been to a dentist to get a tooth filled and get a shot of "deadener?" Its about the same.
--
On a serious note and this is for you Medics as well. If you do have an encounter with... say a kid that has bitten off a HOT pepper and is suffering, get a raw potato, cut it into a scalloped 1/4 - 3/8 slice and make him suck on it. It'll take the heat out almost immediately.
--
Joe,
Me too. Send the pics. All of them ;)))
Mk4
Texas, God Bless America, United States of America - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 15:48:03 (ZULU)
Don Rutledge
Hemet, CA, U.S.A - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 16:01:14 (ZULU)
Well I went out for Desert Marksman's 1000 yd practice day Sunday and that's what it turned out to be. The individual who normally runs it had to work and those that showed didn't have a big interest in shooting paper so it was only metal clanging. 20" and 36" diameter plates at about 1060 yd. Still hadn't had a chance to chrono the 44 gr Varget load so just dialed the -06 dial on the M3 to 1000 and fired for affect. This range has to be the hardest to read. Elevation is about 4320, shooting up a valley from a small outlook with at least three different side valleys cutting into this one from the side and the backstop is the end of a canyon so the winds tend to swirl. By the time I got dialed in I was at 34 MOA with 2 MOA right on last contact with 20" steel. Well everyone else decided to call it quits by 1200 hrs so I headed for the benches to chrono the load.
Temperature stabilized at 91 degrees in the shade so I was glad I brought my MULE. I only had 22 rounds through the tube so decided to chrono with fouled bore. Loads were once fired Federal match prep'd cases (normal uniform primer pocket, debur flash hole, necks turned to .014", FL sized with Redding .355" neck bushing, weighted 170 + or - gr), Sierra 175 MK seated to 2.200" (Stoney Point - .004" off lands), Federal GM210M primer, and 44 gr Varget (Pact Digital Dispensor and Digital Scale used to trickle last couple tenths of powder). Speaking of the powder it was a mix of 3 different lots (1999, 2001 & 2003) of which I had 6 - 1 lb canisters. I didn't what to worry about velocity differences and having to check each lot before starting to use it. Checked with Hodgdon and they indicated no problem. I asked about how to break down the lot number so I would be able to tell on future purchases and was told the first number is the package size, next 6 numbers are the canning date and the rest is the lot number. Now the lots I had were, 1 0117003670, 1 0219963114, & 1 1105013881 so can you tell me what sort of calendar they are using cause I sure can't figure it out. Also, BP was at 29.55 with winds running 0 - 8 MPH. Almost forgot, chrono was Pact Professional set 15' from muzzle of my SCLE so without any further delay:
HIGH: 2723.9 FPS
LOW: 2708.2 FPS
SD: 4.6
CV: 0.17%
MAD: 3.5
CV: 0.13%
AV: 2713.7 FPS
ES: 15.7 FPS
For comparison here is what Federal Match 175's chrono's at on the 17th at elevation of about 700' or so at 88 degrees unk BP:
HIGH: 2769.1 FPS
LOW: 2719.2 FPS
SD: 15.1
CV: 0.55%
MAD: 12.1
CV: 0.44%
AV: 2748.1 FPS
ES: 49.9 FPS
I think I did good in the reloading department ;-) Trouble is I over shot the 2685 FPS I was aiming for or was the temp and elev that stepped up the velocity? Question: Does altitude affect the chrono results since you're only dealing with 15' from muzzle to screens? Well, after 3 days at the range today will be celebrated with pondering results and cleaning gear.
Later,
P.S. - Saturday had a bench rest shooter look at my groups from incremental loads (43 to 44 gr) and he thought I might go another couple of tenths higher since groups were improving and pressure didn't seem an issue yet. Damn decisions, chase must accurate load or match dial? Guess it'll be a good day to ponder things.
Byron
CA, USA - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 16:28:07 (ZULU)
Hit me with an email with your shipping address. I'll put a package together for you.
Stay safe.
Nick
Nick Anzano
Milton, NJ, USA - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 16:46:48 (ZULU)
Quick question, might be important. Does anyone know anything about a company, possibly optics related "Ges. Gosh"?
If it means anything to you e-mail me at the office:
Thomas.Burris@usss.dhs.gov
Thanks
Steve
Steve Burris
NOVA, NOVA, USA - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 16:59:37 (ZULU)
Most anywhere along the side of a dirt road in South Texas ;))) Seriously, they grow wild down there. If they've ever been for sale anywhere (as in a market), I'm not aware of it.
Another thing, if you've ever hunted quail or turkey down in that neck of the brush and find out that they've been feeding on those little "blazing" buckshot...their meat isn't fit to eat :P)
Mk4
Texas, God Bless America, United States of America - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 17:18:31 (ZULU)
... okay. I'll leave it alone.
Had a buddy that tried an experiment on his wife with pop rocks. Had her hoppin' around quite a bit ... crazy fucker.
brian k. sain
Monday, September 1, 2003, at 18:31:55 (ZULU)
Mike in Texas: You're shooting a 7.5 pound unbraked .338 Lapua? You must be nuts or you're just trying to prove to us how tough you Tejans' is....
My advice...get it to George and have him give it his treatment. Less pain, more accuracy.
My original .338 weighed 11 pounds, unbraked. Five rounds convinced me it was not for me in that configuration. George reworked it, added a muzzle brake, and has it for sale. Believe $1,200.00. Nice rifle...go for it. Single shot TRG-S configuration.
Retumbo is working well with with 300 grain Sierra MK's. I'm using H4831SC with 250 grain Lapua Scenars.
Hope this helps...back to packing for the move.
Semper Fi,
Sir Wes
Wes Howe
Blodgett, OR, USA - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 18:39:04 (ZULU)
Don Rutledge
Hemet, CA, U.S.A - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 19:27:59 (ZULU)
Yep, I believe thats the one.
BKS,
>>>>Had a buddy that tried an experiment on his wife with pop rocks. Had her hoppin' around quite a bit ...<<<<<
Uhh....never mind ;)))
--
Anybody here shooting a Win 70 HBV w/ a 26" barrel? I'm curious as to what's your load of Varget that's getting closest to 2680 fps. I'm using IMI brass, 175 SMK, Fed 210M. I'm trying to match my 30-06 BDC cam on my Mk4 M3.
I'll be chronographing my loads but in the mean time am looking for input.
Mk4
Texas, God Bless America, United States of America - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 19:53:29 (ZULU)
the best I can remember about those "Little round orange red peppers" was I don't want too have them again !!! my Dad loved them !! >>> Don
Don Rutledge
Hemet, CA, U.S.A - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 22:05:22 (ZULU)
Had to look up the numbers, but, I got one. 45.1 grains gets me 2715 avg. with Lapua brass and 210M with 175 SMKs'. I even tried IMI match brass with all the same ingredients at one time and I'm sure I chrono'ed the loads. Want me to look 'em up give me a shout.
John
Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 22:28:55 (ZULU)
Just returned from Wally World, $223.87 spent, $76.13 left in the account, and much more pledged.
Child Bride (my shipping and receiving department!) has been joyously packing the goodies into three cartons. She is absolutely thrilled with this.
Duct Tape (black, no OD avaailable), electrical tape, cameras, batteries, swabs, chapsticks, sunscreen, Ziplocs, Sharpies, baby wipes, Slim Jims, jerky (unfortunately not the gourmet stuff!), bug dope and the "Craft Aisle" equivalent of pipe cleaners. Let me know if they work, Joe.
Two full aisles of fishing lures, but not a single .22 cleaning patch.......can somebody else take that one to save me a drive to Albuquerque?
Same with empty plastic squeeze bottles for CLP.
Talked with Asst. Mgr., he's putting me in touch with their Community Relations lady, see if we can get them involved.
Off to the Rez tommorrow for more chaw.
Thanks to all who are getting into this. No Senators or Representatives, yet, though (I know you are all shocked and surprised.)
You guys (and gals) are the best.
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Monday, September 1, 2003, at 22:32:49 (ZULU)
I'll also get a donation of several 2oz. plastic bottles, although they are not the kind with an applicator tip, just a twist off lid.
I showed Joe's list to the guys at work, maybe I can get something comming in from them also.
later, Tony
Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, USA - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 00:39:22 (ZULU)
I've been sending care packages to my son's unit (as well as to my son). The Capt of the unit e-mail back a list... perhaps it's similar to yours. Sports equip (basketball, football, soccer, pumps & needles of course) calf length socks, Kool-Aid, hard candy, ANY NEWSPAPERS (apparently they get little to zero news). Pillows (difficult to ship), disposable cameras, little flashlights (mag lights only now --- I bought some Brinkmann brand the first time, they're very close to garbage). Magazines, puzzles, chess sets (I also printed out a couple extra boards and laminated them, figured they could scrounge up something for checkers). AAA, AA and D cell batteries... I've also had requests for caribiners, camp showers, camp fans, M16 cleaning kits (complete kits!...I sent five (5)).
Things that my son has broken or worn out and I've shipped replacements: (I called one vendor of a broken item and was told it's take 6 weeks to get a warranty repair on the broken item! I mentioned that the broken item was in Iraq and it did little to help the situation.) Gerber Legend multitool, Emerson CQC-7, CamelBack 100oz bladder (I sent one complete unit, Desert 3 color camo and one extra bladder along with a full cleaning kit and tablets).
I've been told that they (many) are hand washing their clothes a little carelessly and wearing things out... I've send many sets of boxer briefs, brown t-shirts, brown wash cloths and towels (most of this is from the local Army PX)... I've also sent out some foot pads,those sponge foam types that are sold at the PX. Several sewing kits, lots of 550 cord, various sized ZipLok bags (Nearly everything I ship is in a ZipLok bag), figure they can't have too many of those. I've also been lucky enough to find the GIANT ZipLok bags...big enough to enclose most of the items in a duffle bag..
Recently sent two (2) sets of DCU Large Regular pants...no replacements on uniforms yet and they're wearing thin some places.
I got a bunch of plastic bottles from Sinclair International when I ordered cleaning patches for the troops, sent those a while back. Also sent graphite & MilTec but was told the CLP is preferred just be careful to wipe it off afterward (excess). Another recent request was for a knife sharpening setup...some troops can't sharpen knives too well.
I just today picked up a 2.5 gallon sprayer from Home Depot, the type used for spraying insecticide and such ($18.00)... I'll send it over for use as a shower unit...I'll bet someone will be happy to take a 2.5 gallon shower.
Also packed up some Carnation instant milk and boxes of UHT milk...threw some Honey Nut Cheerios in as a breakfast treat. Stuck a few of those Instant Cold packs in a box too, (Ammonium Nitrate & Water)...someone will get a cold drink of milk maybe!
(Only one shop offered a discount when I mentioned where the stuff was going...Galyans. I didn't ask Sinclair Int...but assume they'd have been happy to help.)
Dave "Doc" King
USA - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 00:56:52 (ZULU)
Sorry, but I do not think you will be able to get enough Varget into the IMI case for 2685+......in the factory chamber.
IF you do , it will probably be over pressure.
42 pretty much fills it up.....and that will only get you to around 2600.....
Lindy, is shooting an HBV...maybe he can give you some advice on the Varget.
Prob have to go to Win/Lapua brass to get there........
Two Shoes
PS: I have some data for PSS's, with N140, and a couple of others that will / maybe be of some help.
Hit me offline, if interested.
Terry
Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 01:39:42 (ZULU)
That TRG-S will kick the snot out of you! It is not pleasant to shoot. No. Really. It friggin' hurts to shoot it. A fella could develop a case of flinch-itis if he weren't careful.
I've been shooting for over 45 years, and the TRG-S in .338 LM is the only rifle that has ever cut me. Best have Loooong eye relief before you touch one off! I'm gonna put a brake on it one of these days. Meanwhile, it doesn't get much use. I'm too damn old for that kind of abuse.
Mike
BMG Mike
Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 02:02:55 (ZULU)
Email (clean) headed your way. Thanks!
Turns out I got to go into ABQ tomorrow anyway, dammit, eye doctor appointment (GOT to keep them puppies workin'!!!!)
I'll stop by the sporting goods place on the way back and check on squeeze bottles and 550 cord.
Got a call into the best columnist I have ever read, Jim Belshaw, writes for the ABQ Journal, does a lot of human interest stories. Hoping to have him drum up some interest and support, as long as he can keep everyone anonymous and respect opsec. Keep your fingers crossed.
Way to go, Doc!
Need feedback on items tailored to the needs of ladies.
Hit me off-roster, Joe or anyone with specific knowledge. Child Bride can take care of that while I'm loading up with jerky!
I just get prouder of you folks by the day.
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 02:03:27 (ZULU)
He should have alot more relevant info on that load when he gets back, cause I think that's the load he took with him.
Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, USA - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 02:19:49 (ZULU)
I hope your troops appreciate what you guys are doing for them.
By the way that some basic supplies are running low in iraq it seems that every countrys' army must train its logistics people at the same school.
Darryl
Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 03:03:39 (ZULU)
I remember you eating a scope from one of these. My optic has alittle over 4 inches relief @ 16x and that's what's saved my bacon thus far.
Ran another 20 thru it this afternoon and from a sling it is a joy to shoot. Bipod is another story........did 3 rounds that way and was kinda sure I broke a clavical. I'd kinda like to find another if the price was right :)
Wes,
Thanks, it does take alot of homework out.
There is this sound in my head at the moment like ball bearings rolling about in a tin can...........................
Mike in Texas
Granbury, Texas, - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 03:18:33 (ZULU)
Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, USA - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 03:25:19 (ZULU)
Did they put something in the water down yore way???......LOL
Two Shoes
Terry
Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 05:00:20 (ZULU)
Ken M
IL, USA - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 06:31:35 (ZULU)
If your brother in law is near Stuttgart and wants to join a club send me an email for contact info.
Marc
Marc Palmer
Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 08:49:52 (ZULU)
Okay this is the first time I've posted here, so please except my apologies if I'm either asking in the wrong place or if the question has been asked before.
I'm a UK based Deer stalker / manager and deal with deer upto 30st in weight, these stags must be killed with "one shot, one kill" everytime or that's the theory anyway, I guess anyone who has shot for any length of time will know that :)
My question to you lot is about binoculars, having just returned a set of Swarovski 8x56's due to "fogged" prisms, I'm in the market for a new set of binoculars for low light use and identification of deer species/sex out to 300 yds at dawn/dusk.
I guess they would be second hand as I've only got a budget of $500 but alas not enough time to go and try all the binoculars that are on sale, so has anyone got a good recommendations from previous experience or current ownership?
TIA
John
John
Wales UK - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 09:25:36 (ZULU)
I'm still working on my book and looking for stories...
Having spent a good part of the past few months in and out of the hospital I was fortunate in finding the poster child for "Men are from Mars, Women are fron hell". Very pretty blond, blues eyes, rich girl, recent graduate from German medical school, Just about as arrogant as they get!
John in Wales,
I tried lots of binos here in Germany with similiar requirements. The problem is cost to quality. For many years I used the Zeiss Jena military 7 X 40s with good luck but they lacked in light transmission. I know they are at least double the price you mentioned but I am using the Zeiss 8 X 56 classic now and am very pleased.
Check this out http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3624578041&category=31711
By the way, you can extend the usable light by 10 minutes or so by increasing the diopter settings as the light drops. I mark the eye pieces with two dots of white paint on each to show the normal adjustment and the second increased diopter adjustment. The white paint enables me to see the adjustments in low light. In the mornings I start out with the increased settings and as the light improves I readjust.
Marc
Marc Palmer
Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 11:50:00 (ZULU)
Bolt
Here's to swimmin with bowlegged women!, NC, - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 11:57:09 (ZULU)
Tony
Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, USA - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 12:25:16 (ZULU)
Swarovski service is usually very good so you'll probably have them back soon. But if you want another pair your best bet this side of the pond are the "avian" binoculars from Ace Optics in Bath.
http://www.acecameras.co.uk/avian_binoculars.htm
These are VERY good phase coated waterproof roof prisms for the price. For your needs, the 7x42 is probably best.
Mark D
Mark D
London, UK - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 12:27:01 (ZULU)
Don Rutledge
Hemet, CA, U.S.A - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 13:40:08 (ZULU)
happy birthday mang!!
Acehigh and Bearman,
Sorry the match took so long Sunday. Wish you guys could have stuck around for the 2nd, but the drive must have been rough. BTW bearman,, you sore yet?
Chris...
Chris
Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 13:40:30 (ZULU)
Mengele University - Ja, und ve haf some special showas for you ...
brian k. sain
Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 15:22:13 (ZULU)
Jumpin Jehosophat! Get me a ticket to Iraq Brucey! My "junior executive" and I will handle that one for ya !
... Hell, I knew a girl named "Sandy" once ...
Just kidding ... good thing ya'll are doing.
brian k. sain
Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 15:29:08 (ZULU)
It appears that an enormous amount of the public monies directed at domestic preparedness are going toward the backfill of salaries...it's the only way they can actually use the money and show absolutely zero improvement in capability.... if you spend it on equipment or training, the folks willing to go the extra mile for free would have the equipment they need to deal with the problem... by paying folks salaries and giving them minimal equipment, we can drive off the volunteer types and maintain a "professional" staff with lower motivation, zero training and lousy equipment.
I had a very similar problem manifest during 9/11... my team's leadership suddenly had political concerns which didn't mix well with the job at hand....several of us simply ignored the politics and did the job...thus ended my relationship with the ultra elite federal disaster response system...
Bolt - Please do us all a favor and find a way to stay in the game, we really need dedicated, serious folks available should a real emergency arise.... the guys collecting overtime are WWWAAAAYYYY too busy arguing with each other who is in charge and who gets what really fancy sounding title <g>.
medicjim
Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 16:18:31 (ZULU)
Just returned from Raton/Whittington Center after a 9 day stay in the 'primitive camping area.'
Had the distinct - but WAY TOO short - pleasure of meeting Andy and Andy's Dad. Also met a gentleman by the name of Dan and re-met a man named 'Eric?.' Unfortunately - AND appologetically - I am the pits with names. 'Eric' immediately recalled my name and remembered our meeting from last year.
ALL were terrific people, but I was starting to pack for the return trip home and had very little time to visit. I was at Raton for the second of two approx. 9 day visits, the later (this visit)including the 'Founder Appreciation Days' from the Center.
Eric had just posted a 'clean' score with 35X (as I try to recall) and was being visited by a man who 'wanted to see who had shot so well as he had beaten Eric by ONE X'. It was the end of the Practice(?) match they had on Saturday & Sunday. Eric was shooting a 6.5 x .284 as was Kevin. Don't know what Andy was shooting.
I had shot some groups with SCLE #10 and with my Winnie Stealth. I have not had time to measure group size yet. I DID blow a primer with SCLE. It was supposed to be a 44.5 gr. loading of Varget. I seem to remember one charge being 45.8 gr. so that may have been the one. Other than that one round, it seemed to like the load. No cronograph...
Sharon
Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, US of A!! - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 17:06:05 (ZULU)
>Is kidnapping grandbabies by irrate grandparents legal? Stupid ass kids!<
Probably not, but it sure as hell should be.
Don
Don Smith
Huntsville, AL, USA - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 21:24:59 (ZULU)
Just got back from ABQ and the peepers are fine (for my age!)......stopped by the sporting goods store and cleaned 'em out of 550 cord and .223 patches...would NOT give me a discount, so I am open to other sources you guys may have!
Spent more than the account had left in it, but was confident that my P.O. Box would have more donations. Sure enough, 4 checks, totalling $230.00.
Donations to date: $530.00
Expenditures to date: $325.05
Amt. Remaining: $204.95
Another trip to the Smoke Shop!
Still no donations from members of Congress, however.......
Many Thanks to Markwell, Michael S., Mr. Price and Mr. Kaney.
Our hats are off to you. Child Bride is thrilled and honored to be in such company. As am I.
Sain:
I ain't buying you no damn plane ticket to Iraq. We are trying to stabilize that nation. Besides, your wife would be after me with a set of hedge clippers, and not to trim my beard. Unlike my two male dogs, I survived my previous wife with everything intact. I intend to keep it that way.
Bolt:
49?
Trade ya! Keep celebrating every one you have.....the alternative sucks pretty heavily! (Having the groundhogs deliver your mail)
Markwell:
Beautiful rifle, and a nice chuck......made me weepy!
Y'all Stay Safe!
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 22:11:12 (ZULU)
You're OKAY with me Bruce.
Joe M: Any way to insure the REMFs don't get the goods ??????????
brian k. sain
Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 23:50:26 (ZULU)
Anyone else use the Mak-Cassegrain reflectors as spotting scopes? They are mainly used for astronomy and some land spotting. Both Meade and Celestron make nice ones, and Orion has a good one as well.
Mine is the Meade 90mm, and it is clear as a bell. Very little chromatic effects at the edges and the edge distortion is not noticable. One of the best things is the price - a really good scope for half of what a Kowa costs. Surfacing just one side of a piece of glass doesn't cost as much.
I use the supplied 25mm eyepiece and a 40mm eyepiece I got seperately. That translates to 48x and 30x. Only difficulty is the depth of field is a little less than a good refractor. OTOH, if you want to see .223 holes at 200 to 300 yards, ...
They are also a bit too delicate for heavy duty field use, and the 90mm mirror is clearly visible from the front, making sniper stalking a bit problematic.
Karl
(Even better is trying to watch a deer through a 10" scope. Clear, with the deer filling most of the field, but tracking was a bit of a problem. This is at about 1/2 mile on low power. On high you should be able to count the eyelashes.)
Karl
Damn Hot, Tx, USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 00:15:25 (ZULU)
O.K., since I can't get to the range before this weekend but I want to load some more test rounds this week can anyone verify my fuzzy logic?
I got 2713 fps with 44 gr Varget, Tony B. got 2740 fps with 44.5 gr Varget and the difference is 27 fps (not withstanding any component variance). So if I subtract 27 from my 2713 I end up with 2686 fps. That 27 fps was with .5 gr more of Varget so if I subtract that from my 44 gr load I get 43.5 gr of Varget for 2686 fps from an SCLE. Can anyone verify my findings?
Fair Game!
Deer season is around the corner and I am hearing rumors that the playing field is being leveled. You might what to check this out; http://www.worth1000.com/view.asp?entry=63455&display=photoshop
Later,
P.S. - Any thoughts about altitude affecting velocity readings with bullet only travelling 15' from muzzle to screens?
Byron
CA, USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 00:30:09 (ZULU)
Have shot about a truck load of whitetails with 100gr., .25cal. Nosler Ballistic tips, out of assorted 250-3000 rifles over the years {as well as with a few other calibers/ cartridges}, with great accuracy and spectacular results. There is really no reason to change bullets, but..Was wondering if the collective wisdom has any experience with Partitions in contrast to BTs..Crop damage time is fast approaching and thought I might do a bit of experimenting. Should get better penitration with the partitions but was wondering about wound channel/ internal damage of partitions as compared to BTs... BTs just pulp 'em inside and put them down faster than any other bullet I've ever used...Just thinkin' out loud; comments based on experience appreciated...
Bruce Robinson....Only one shot this PM at a chuck..Shot under it with a .223 and he must have jumped 4 feet straight up in the air; came down diggin' for all he was worth and scuttled safely home at about 40MPH...laughed my ass off and went home to dinner..
outa here
Markwell
The Alleghenies, WV, - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 02:34:29 (ZULU)
It has been asked for, and here it is. BadLands Tactical Training Facility will be conducting a Fall Long Range Precision (Sniper) Rifle Match, November 8-9,2003. Events will be Kims Game, Range Estimation and Unknown Distance Shooting 50-1000 yards. For more information email me or visit www.badlandstactical.net/fallmatch.htm
I Look forward to seeing alot of Rosterians at the match!
Bobby Whittington
Grandfield, Oklahoma, USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 03:21:11 (ZULU)
I'm Ok today! I want to thank you for a great time at the range, I will be back. Also, I want to thank Acehigh for giving me the opportunity to experience a 1K shoot - It was great...! :)
Also, the ride was First Class !!! Thanks Acehigh! - But, I hate rain in that car..... :) :) !!!
Thanks,
BearMan
BearMan
Indy, Indiana, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 03:22:54 (ZULU)
Perusing the list, it appears all are doing well with our members.
Insain, is up to him old tricks. Leave it to him to major in "human relations"...;-)
Bad day in Oregon Corrections, today. We had an inmate, from my section, murdered in our activities area. He was put down (we think bludgeoned) and stabbed 38 times in the chest, head, and neck.
We believe it's drug/gang related. He was gang leader of our Sereno hispanic gangs and was packing drugs when killed. Looks like the White supremicists did it...more as the story unfolds.
Interestingly enough, many officers have been trying to get activities closed because of lack of inmate supervision, etc. This in Oregons maximum security facility?
Starting to like this job less and less...at least in the service we could shoot back.
Needless to say, I'm beat after a 16+ hour day.
Semper Fi,
Sir Wes
Wes Howe
Blodgett, OR, USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 03:23:38 (ZULU)
By the way anybody hear from Pete L. lately? I've been trying to get hold of him to no avail.
OK I had the chance to shoot my buddies Barrett 96 with some HSM AMAX loads. Now I shoot that thing with him a lot, using MilSpec ammo...no problemo. OK the HSM AMAX let loose with a mighty KA-BOOOM!!!!. I'm a lefty and never had a problem shooting the monster before. After one round I had a nice little bleed going from my gums. That was it, I stood up and walked back to my pip squeek 308. Never again will I shoot that ammo from that rifle. Call me a baby Whaaaaaa...mommy =)
Stay safe,
Joe S.
Joe S.
Dago, CA, US of A - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 03:25:59 (ZULU)
Brian raises a good question, which deserves a good answer........
Joe divies up and delivers these packages his own self, or by his staff, makes sure they go to the camps/units that need them, according to the individual needs. Only instance that I know of was Joe giving a few of his guys a bag of jerky for their (unsung) efforts, for which I applaud Joe! And Joe told me about that!
Trust me guys, REMF's will not siphon this stuff off. This effort on the part of all of you is just great.
Sain:
Glad you understand about my wanting to retain all my original equipment. They don't do much, functionally, but I think they're kind of decorative, I've had 'em a long time, and I need 'em to maintain my balance.
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 04:20:28 (ZULU)
Does anyone have any exp. with .470 Capstick? I'm looking for a nice close-in big bore, but can't afford a double.
Also, does anyone know of anyone turning their own bullets for .308's? I'm looking for 250gr. flat noses for my .300/.221.
Robert Martin
FL, USofA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 04:55:06 (ZULU)
damn.
Mike in Texas
Granbury, Texas, - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 05:20:52 (ZULU)
Ha! Remfs are people too! At least this REMF...but yeah, I do go away from the main camps with the goodies (Arifjan and Doha). I routinely get into the outer camps, and larger base camps. In the bigger camps, the red cross chippies (anyone you might know?) pass the stuff out to the younger troopers. In the smaller camps and bases, I just go through the First Sergeants. It is hit or miss; totally random depending on who is moving through a camp or how far north I go in the heli's. For the troops, it is like winning the lottery though.
Supply (and all the world's armies using the same school):
Gents, the US army is embarking on a bold new plan. "They" (the damned pronouns that duck up a wet dream) have decided to put a Ranger with absolutely no supply experience in charge of an ASG (area support group) supply operation. We know this guy as "me." Well, not knowing that as a LOG Toadie I am supposed to sit around and croak "Nooooooooo" to everyone---I get shit done. In fact, I thought I'd get fired for the scope of the mission and my lack of any working knowledge of this shtuff--now I think the bastids will never let me go back. The complaints I hear now is "too much---I don't know what to do with all this (ice, water, fuel, etc). Fuckin' a. I rock--LOG toads suck. The secret is: logistics is easy--and now that the secret is out, I'm bitch slappin' the first loggie who tells me "can't." The job entails unclogging distro, movements, security within the AOR, and throughput to emergency resupply for odds and ends north. As I go, I am taking over a larger reach. I've cornered a few markets already by taking on customers beyond my boundaries--and I am looking at a major "problem" as my next coup. Can't say what, but it is echelons above and causes all the grief through the tip of the spear...let's just say it is an expanded GS role from a DS operation. Yeah, youz guys talk all the shit you want about supply weenies. I agree wholeheartedly. My job vs, my qualifications is a running joke here---but the punch line is that I am unscrewing the goats. And, it is too dang easy...just get the shit to the troops and quit your damned whining. Ha. Double ha.
Who wanted the wound characteristics photo? Email me and I'll send it back to ya...whoever asked.
Joe M
Joe Mahon
Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 08:12:40 (ZULU)
Mark, how do Avian optics compare to Zeiss ?
I'll keep an eye on the 8x56 Zeiss as well, thanks for the link Marc.
Just sorting the kit out for a stalk tonight, we are after Red stags and a Royal with an "X" that I placed on it last month :)
John
John
Wales UK - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 10:24:25 (ZULU)
You're quite welcome and a damn respectable shot to boot. Tell your wife we'll be back from Badlands in time for Turkey.
Mk4,
I didn't totally forget. Just about. IMI match brass no "prep" was gettin hot real early. Terry was right. 43.7 grs. was showing ejector marks and was below 2650. Sorry bout the lag time.
John
Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 10:41:32 (ZULU)
I have some items here at my shop that could be useful to you and your adopted troops.
The SC e-mail link system aborted or I'm private message you.
E-Mail intro (if you desire) and current wants list and I'll see what I can do to augment Bruce Robinson stuff (I may have items that Bruce can't get easily).
DKing@NavDosCen.Med.Navy.Mil
or
David_L_King@Yahoo.Com
v/r
Dave "Doc" King
HMC(SW) USN (ret)
Dave "Doc" King
USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 13:38:01 (ZULU)
My experience with Varget - 20# and six lot numbers since 1997 - has been ~20 fps per half grain YMMMV. I dunno 'bout these other hawgs, but I've noticed that the Varget I've shot seems to be "cold temperature sensitive" to the tune of 200fps from 50 to 85 degrees out of my Compass lake AR.... as in 77gr smk going from 2510 to 2725 with no other change except the weather. I have not done a crono on the .308 at different temps and I'm not shooting Varget anymore after my last experience with "a bad lot"....
Hey Mark, Did I ever get back to you on the Turkey arrow question? just noticed I sent it to my workaddy and dunno if I ever replied!
Steve ~ Hockeyref
Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 13:50:42 (ZULU)
John,
That's okay. Several range sessions have shown that 42.5 gr. of Varget in the IMI case is preferable in my HBV anyway. I did do a workup to 44.0 but the accuracy started falling apart after 42.5. I wanted to be able to track my Mk4 with a 2685 fps load but that ain't gonna happen. Just not sure if I'm gonna be able to stay supersonic @ 1K with that load. Will do some chronographing today with this load but not even sure if I'll be able to hold 2600 fps with it.
Along this line of thinking a friend reminded me that Master Rick prefers the lower velocity (2600 vs 2685) for his students. Seems to be more consistent with them.
Mk4
Texas, God Bless America, United States of America - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 13:55:38 (ZULU)
My experience in the Ballistic Tip vs Partition decision is driven by velocity. In high velocity rounds like the 7mm STW, driving a 140-150gr B-Tip at 3300+ fps will provide lightning like kills but with major tissue damage and a nice squishy sound from inside the carcass. We have moved to Partitions in these rounds as they can still provide complete penetration without the overwhelming meat loss and offer comparable accuracy. But in medium velocity rounds like the 308 Win the Ballistic Tips rule the day imo. I had a ~225 yard shot on a nice VA buck last fall with my GA Precision M40A1 and my 165gr B-Tip broke the front shoulder and still completely penetrated the far side. So I'd decide based on the velocity of my chosen round, and it sounds like the B-Tips work for you.
Major Mahon, several large boxes will be headed to you this p.m. from my team, thank you and enjoy. Thanks to Bruce Robinson and all who contributed to his efforts too!
Seuss
Sub Tropical, PA, USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 14:16:22 (ZULU)
Joe Mahon,
Sounds like you're having too much fun shaking the tree!
Duman
Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 14:55:41 (ZULU)
THis should help out.
http://www.awalkinhell.com/REMF.htm
Dave "Doc" King
USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 15:01:35 (ZULU)
Thanks.
Duman
Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 15:22:24 (ZULU)
Thanks for the info, I'll let you know what I find out this weekend if nothing else keeps me from the range.
Later,
Byron
CA, USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 16:36:22 (ZULU)
Brian Sain send email with address. Minnie Mee Cuffs are done. Who loves you?
On another site guys suggested a sale on my M24 slings so I am extending that sale here. They are any color as long as it's Tan, OD or Black, with HD Military Swivels installed, for 60.00 plus 5.00 shipping. Would not normally post here but frankly getting a war chest together. Ken knows why but can't discuss right now.
Jaeger, that whole thing on 408 CHey Tac is a pain in the butt. All that chest pounding and such, then no emails or calls. So much for getting me one to test. More BS and no follow through. Seems like old times. I am sticking with 338 Lapua. It costs enough to shoot. Thinking the biggest thingt he 408 has going for it, is concentration. I mean at what 10.00? a shot you can not afford to miss.
On 338 Lapua, no break? Man that hurts unless you are shooting girly loads. Been there and shot one like that. No fun. Vias makes a hell of a break and so does OPS.
Undude/Mike
Mike Miller
CA, - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 16:41:59 (ZULU)
This is great. I hope Joe emails me with a complaint that he is swamped.
Now.........
I have given this guy in Oregon every benefit of the doubt. He has not responded to my last request for payment. As I was typing this, my lawyer returned my call and assured me that I should indeed post this info to prevent my friends in this community from getting ripped off, too (Rod will also be sending a package for the troops, Joe!)
He also recommended that I turn this over to the credit bureaus. I decline. This guy is his own punishment. His word is worth less than forty bucks. He is not worth my time.
If you want to see who signed for the package at 1545 28 July 2003, got to:
http://trkcnfrm1.smi.usps.com/netdata-cgi/db2www/cbd_243.d2w/output
Sad......first instance in five years.
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 16:45:36 (ZULU)
Rock on SIR!
BKS
brian k. sain
Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 17:17:33 (ZULU)
Bruce,
Blank screen... No tracking number.
Sharon
Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, US of A!! - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 17:30:05 (ZULU)
Go to that address and enter the folowing tracking number:
ET057168065US.......(zero's, not O's)
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 18:16:27 (ZULU)
Now, a less than 1% failure rate is still great, but I have never seen this with Norma or win, or LC or Rem, and at $58 a box, I'd think they'd be perfect as well.
I wonder if the steep shoulder angle is what causes this?
Anyway, let me know if you have any info. If you have the lot#, that would really help too. (the blue number stamped under th top of the box lid). I'd like to pass this info along to Lapua if it's an issue in other lots/areas of the country.
Bearman,
Looking forward to seeing you and Acehigh down for some more matches. Maybe next time we can get the matches done and get to the 800y pop ups.
Chris...
aka. Fatoy...
Chris
Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 18:23:44 (ZULU)
The Avians are very good but they aren't Leica/Zeiss/Swarovski or top of the range Nikon quality. They compared quite favourably with the leica equivalent when I tried them and were better than Minnox and B&L. It wasn't until I held them stacked on top of the leica's that I could see the difference. But then the difference was noticable. Not massive, but noticable. The difference is between knowing you are looking at leaves on a distant tree and seeing individual leaves. That's the trouble with optics the extra 5-10% performance doubles the price. If you could stretch to £500 rather than $500 you could get a second hand pair of leica 8x50 or 10x50's and never look back. If I were you I'd try to get down there and compare for yourself rather than order blind as it were. They do offer a 14 day return -no questions asked if you're not happy though. The trouble with good optics is that once you've seen how good the best are it's very hard to settle for less.( and very expensive if you can't. - not to mention dangerous if "her indoors" finds out!)
Mark D
Mark Dougan
London, UK - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 18:30:18 (ZULU)
No problems or lost/damages cases ever with any of my 6.5 x 284 or other Lapua brass (243, 308 or 338 Lapua)
/r
Dave "Doc" King
USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 18:49:14 (ZULU)
Rock on Joe, bring pride to the REMF name.
Mike, good shot. For $10 per round, I'll pay some kid to run a two miles and throw a brick through the target.
Now what's the BC on a 10 year old with a brick and a bag full of jaw breakers?
Jaeger
Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 18:59:18 (ZULU)
Robert Martin
FL, USofA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 19:05:45 (ZULU)
First box of "Goodies for the Grunts" on its way to you. I'm very proud of our troops and figure the best way to show my appreciation is with my wallet.
Thanks for what you do ;)))
Mk4
Texas, God Bless America, United States of America - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 22:31:27 (ZULU)
In the last 3 years, I can't remember a bad one,223,243,308,30-06. But I do have a notable case of CRS. Maybe it's like the new server commercial for MS where they make a .05 more per transaction and do 20 million transactions/mth. It would add up. I'm on my last box of 100 out of 500 from a purchase last year. I'll check any new arrivals and get with ya.
Doc K.
Thanks for the link. A story that should be told more.
Bruce,
Thanks for the heads up on that pitiful sob. He'll get his, I'm sure. I'm a firm believer in karma.
John
Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 23:15:54 (ZULU)
Back from another fun day in ABQ......this is why I live in Los Lunas!!!!!
Child Bride knew where to go in a craft supply shop to get squeeze bottles for CLP. Then we hit the Rez and got a bunch more chaw.
Donations to date: $530
Expenditures to date: $526.55
Y'all keep it up......turning the Bride loose in Walmart to buy stuff for our guys and gals over there is one of the biggest kicks I've ever had. She grins like a possum the whole time!
Thanks again, folks. You are truly wonderful people.
And a huge thank-you to Major Joe.....you make all this work, and you and your team perform all this while making enormous sacrifices. We see, remember, and will forever appreciate.
Y'all stay safe.....God Bless our troops.
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 23:17:43 (ZULU)
Our Sheriff's Relief Association publishes a monthly Department news magazine and this was one of the tid-bits for the month.
"FEELING YOUR AGE?
Just in case you were not feeling old today, this will certainly change things. Most of the deputies graduating from the Academy this year were born twenty-one years ago. This is a list of things that will give you sense of their mind set:
- They are too young to remember the shuttle blowing up.
- Their lifetime has always included AIDS.
- Bottle caps have alway been screw off and plastic.
- The compact disc was introduced the year they were born.
- They have always had an answering machine.
- They have always had cable.
- They cannot fathom not having a remote control.
- Jay Leno has always been on the "Tonight Show."
- Popcorn has always been cooked in a microwave oven.
- They never took a swim and thought about "Jaws."
- They cannot imagine what hard contact lenses are.
- They do not know who Mork was or where he was from.
- They never heard "Where's the beef," "I'd walk a mile for a Camel" or "De plane boss, de plane."
- They do not care who shot J.R. and have no idea who J.R. is.
- McDonalds's burgers never came in Styrofoam containers.
- They do not have a clue how to use a typewriter.
- They believe the MDT has always been standard issue equipment in a patrol car.
Do you feel old yet? After reading this, you can take your glasses off again so you do not look so old. I'm sure your half-filled-out retirement paperwork is still in the top drawer of your desk, next to your typewriter ribbon."
Damn, are we really that old? I don't feel that old ... most of the time. There was a time when we were the one's laughing because our elders had CRS (can't remember shit), now we're the one's being laughed at because of CRS. Well at least I still look good, now where did I put my glasses so I can make sure?
Later,
Byron
CA, USA - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 00:44:45 (ZULU)
>On 338 Lapua, no break? Man that hurts unless you are shooting girly loads<
Full house Lapua 250 factory stuff. But hey........I'm using your sling!
Seriously, got something bolted to it I'm trying to break. 40 more rounds....................at $70 a box........
Mike in Texas
Granbury, Texas, - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 01:32:43 (ZULU)
Mark Smith
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 01:37:23 (ZULU)
I'm making a sudden trip from NYC to Winston-Salem NC. Grandpa, the Bishop (Episc) is going to go see THE BOSS, upstairs. I'm going to see him STAT. Any of you guys between NY and NC who might want to share a meal or just a handshake, hit my e-mail (subject SCDR). I could use the friendly faces
Thank You,
Web the Critter
P.S. Can any of you active Recruiting Command (ARMY) (or former with contacts) handle a tough question? Hit me off-line.
Web Crittenden
Upstate NY till I had to come back out of the woods., Ny, - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 03:08:53 (ZULU)
A little time to kill after climbing down from the roof (*$**%$##@%% swamp cooler!!) so I thought I would give you a rundown of the contents of the three cartons that go to Joe tomorrow, thanks to your generosity and love of our troops:
550 cord, 50 ft, qty. 5
.223 Patches, 500 pk., qty. 7
Disposable cameras, 27 exposure, qty. 4
AA batteries, 8 pk., qty. 4
Chapstick, qty. 12
Black Duct Tape, qty. 5
Electrical Tape, qty. 11
Smokeless tobacco, asstd., 10 cans per log, qty. 6
Baby wipes, 37 ea., qty. 10
CLP Sqeeze bottles, qty. 15
Slim Jims, 15 per can, qty. 2
Sharpie markers, 5 per pack, qty. 5
Sunscreen, SPF 45, qty. 4
Insect Repellant, qty. 6
Ziplock Bags, Gallon Size, 19 ea., qty. 5
Pipe cleaners, 100 ea., qty. 2
Jerky, 4 oz., qty. 8
Q-Tips, 500 ea., qty. 2
Plus a bunch of assorted magazines.
Tried to stay with Joe's wish list. Joe, fine-tune it as needed.
My heartfelt thanks to all that serve or have served.....and to the REMF's that proudly get this stuff to the men and women who need it!
(Don't know how "Rear Echelon" applies over there, though.....anybody know where the front is?)
Joe wrote me that he could not begin to describe the look on the face of an old grizzled 1SGT when he handed him a 10-pack roll of Copenhagen.
My thanks to all of you who so generously donated.
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 03:10:14 (ZULU)
Michael
USA - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 06:52:36 (ZULU)
One of my young captains sent this to me:
Subject: Deja Vu Article from 1945
Administration In Crisis Over Burgeoning Quagmire
August 12, 1945
WASHINGTON DC (Reuters) President Truman, just a few months into his young presidency, is coming under increasing fire from some
Congressional Republicans for what appears to be a deteriorating security situation in occupied Germany, with some calling for his removal from office.
Over three months after a formal declaration of an end to hostilities,
the occupation is bogged down. Fanatical elements of the former Nazi regime who, in their zeal to liberate their nation from the foreign occupiers, call themselves members of the Werwolf (werewolves) continue to commit almost-daily acts of sabotage against Germany's already-ravaged infrastructure, and attack American troops. They have been laying road mines, poisoning food and water supplies, and setting various traps, often lethal, for the occupying forces.
It's not difficult to find antagonism and anti-Americanism among the population--many complain of the deprivation and lack of security. There are thousands of homeless refugees, and humanitarian efforts seem confused and inadequate.
> >
In the wake of the budding disaster, some have called for more international participation in peacekeeping. A Red Cross official said that, "...the German people will be more comfortable if their conquerors weren't now their overlords. It makes it difficult to argue that this wasn't an imperialistic war when the occupying troops in the western sector are exclusively American, British and French."
> >
The administration, of course, claims that, given the chaos of the
recent war, such a situation is to be expected, and that things will improve with time. As to the suggestion to internationalize the occupying forces, the administration had no official comment, but an unofficial one was a repetition of the quote from General McAuliffe, when asked to surrender in last winter's Battle of the Bulge--"Nuts."
> >
> > In an attempt to minimize the situation, a White House spokesman pointed out that the casualties were extremely light, and militarily inconsequential, particularly when compared to the loss rates prior to VE Day. Also, the attacks seem to be dying down with each passing month. But this statement was leaped upon by some as heartless, trivializing the deaths and injuries of young American men.
> >
> >
Looking at this, it apprears to me to be fiction--but the premise is accurate enough. There was much consternation in the early days of the occupation as it slowly shifted to nation building. I cut off the bottom two thirds of this article for brevity's sake; but it was almost too perfectly tailored to today to be believable. Yet, this is historically accurate as Killer Angels was; and we take no lesson from history now.
Liberals, just shut up and let serious people do serious work! We were still questioning our efforts in 1950 in ETO and PTO; and here we go again. If you think about policy rationally, great--if you "feel" policy then go live with Jonny Depp in the south of France. Do not try to mold my country to your liking--there are plenty of countries already set up with socialistic economies and societies. Just go! And quit trying to understand why I own guns--you missed that boat years ago...
Joe M.
Joe Mahon
Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 08:45:32 (ZULU)
REMF: Rear-echelon Mutha fucker. Heheh, I used to throw that one around a whole bunch. Now I are one! And being among them, I can tell ya that the title is earned by some of these folks.
Range: 40 for 40. Nuff said. Thanks Dan, the simpliest thing made al the difference. I just set ever so slightly to the right of center. Had some fun teaching on the zero range too.
Brian:
No Slam! I'm just a "sensitive" warrior who was promoted out of the cool jobs... and I now sit in the rear (mostly) hating myself for what I've become...Hahahahahaha. I hated myself when I was a second louie too; a left over NCO deep reflex response. I couldn't shave in the morning without flippin myself the finger. I was basket case. Imagine, a second LT muttering to himself about "gawd damn dumb ass second louiees" in the orderly room. People gave me a wide berth...:))
(now that I am older and wiser, I see the 2LT as a necessary evil-- just found out they grow up to become presidents)
Joe M.
Joe Mahon
Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 09:25:58 (ZULU)
Anybody know where to get an AK 47 bubble jet?
:))
Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 10:32:05 (ZULU)
John in Wales, oh no not another sheep shagger on the Roster !!!! welcome. I'd have recomended Steiner bino's to you, that was untill about 5 weeks ago when my new 7x50's got a leak during some liquid sunshine in Scotland, depending on how Steiner deal with fixing them and compensating me i might recomend em again (i'm sure it was just a one off as ive another set of 7x50's that have given me great service through the years). Leica are the top of the bunch, but the most expensive too, Steiner-Swarovski-Zeiss are all about equal, and then thére is a big step down in quality to whatever comes next. If you are using em professionaly then you want the best.I've had swarovskis leak before.Steiner night hunters are good.dont buy till you asked me what price i can get on em here.
Marc Palmer.. buddy i owe you money, and i don't like owing money.. have you changed your phone number because the one i have doesn't work, email me at work with your bank details and i'l get transferring.
Joe S. ah. i guess the germans are already on thier way back here eh?. tell your Bro inlaw to gimmie a ring and i'l take him down the range in Darmstadt, and maybe even piggy hunting, no full auto here though..
Jon B. gimmie a ring when you get back to the lakes, i'm at work as of sunday morning.
Pete L
Peter Lincoln
Germany - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 12:34:51 (ZULU)
"Now what's the BC on a 10 year old with a brick and a bag full of jaw breakers?"
ROTFLMAO!
You could have him spin in a circle for a full minute, then send him downrange. This could provide measurable verification of "spin-drift".
Duman
Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 14:32:40 (ZULU)
This is my first post, made at the suggestion of MK4. I became a lurker because I grew tired of being constantly interrupted by my husband to, "Come read this!" on the DR. He is still a lurker and I'm not sure why.
Meanwhile, I feel compelled to offer my feeble qualifications:
1) The largest, nicest room in our very small house is devoted to weapon and ammo storage and reloading.
2) I spent my honeymoon at the 1999 Soldier of Fortune Convention in Las Vegas. And I had a great time, despite suffering heat stroke on the range.
3) Although I grew up in an anti-gun household parented by Conscientious Objectors, I have since seen the flaws in that viewpoint. Therefore, I may be able to shed some light on how liberals come up with their stupid ideas, should anybody care.
At any rate, MK4 thought I should share my ideas for stuff that would make our troops more comfortable in a hot, dusty nasty climate. Joe's list covers most stuff, but this might also be appreciated:
feminine napkins (used as helmet liners to absorb sweat,and no I'm not making this up to force you guys to stand in line holding cases of these)
As many wet wipes as you can ship (I know Joe mentioned these, but they truly are important)
Postcards from your hometown, showing the troops places they're defending that they may never have seen
On to more conventional business:
Web the Critter -- stop by on your way to NC. We're on a main drag and I would be happy to whip up a meal for you.
Peter Lincoln -- As a former Software AG employee, I've been to several places in Darmstadt, but not the range. Plink a couple for me, eh?
Joe Mahon -- Thanks for your stories from the front. THey give us civilians artillery against the local negativity.
Thanks for listening,
"Sweetie" (so dubbed by MK4)
Sweetie
MD, USA - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 15:02:51 (ZULU)
I bet that damn thing wouldn't paper-jam!
I also heard yesterday that my jarhead nephew is COMING HOME from Iraq!!!
I have another that is reporting for basic soon.
4i's
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 15:15:10 (ZULU)
Don Rutledge
Riverside, CA, U.S.A - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 15:19:49 (ZULU)
And here I thought it was just a bunch of sweaty, grumpy old men hanging out. We better toe the line now boys.
My apologies for any past posts on my part that may have offended. My momma really did raise me right (God bless her little Irish heart).
All that aside, chicks do dig me (ladies too).
... guess now I gotta clean up my act. Ain't gonna be easy (sigh).
Welcome to the Roster ma'am.
brian k. sain
Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 15:37:37 (ZULU)
First, does anyone have any opinions (good or bad) about Pac-Nor barrels. Anything...rifling quality, centering of bore, fit&finish, etc. I'm considering them for a big bore project I'm working on.
Second, after a four hour low crawl thru swampy cattle land in central FL, I have a reccommendation/endorsement. I bought one of those rhino skin bug suits from one of the outdoor catalogs and wore it for the first time last night. At the end of my crawl, my left foot ended up in a fire ant nest. It took an hour for them to reach my face and I had not one bite in the interim. About 5 mins. after they started chewing on me I had 3 coyotes come in and took 2. No skeeter bites either. Best product of its kind I have tried. It was a little warm, especially in FL humidity, but I've had worse in bug tamers and ghillies. If you look into them, get the socks and gloves.
Side note, if you use NV scopes, don't use duct tape to hold extra batteries to the stock. I got this trick from an old "sniper" in AR last year, but for some reason, duct tape conducts electricity and drains batteries. Oh well.
Hair not air!
Robert Martin
FL, USofA - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 15:40:12 (ZULU)
Sweetie
I sent a box of panty liners to my son for use as helmet sweat band augments. During one of his phone calls I asked if they had arrived and were being used....the phone went silent for a short while and then a little 'chuckle'..."Ahhhh no" he said. He said he put the box out on a common area table and it sat there for a few days then mysteriously migrated to a nearby trash can. Young guys are fairly odd...an older fella that recently came back used the panty liners and thought they were a great idea (of course he was a Navy Officer and they routinely use panty liners :)...) In all truthfulness, he said the troops with him used them and thought they were great and he was the one recommending that I send some to my son.
I just had a mental image of a squad of U. S. soldiers advancing on the opposing forces while having numerous panty liners stuck to the outside of their helmets.... damn odd mental image! But if I were being charged by a group of men dressed in such a fashion I believe I'd retreat to contemplate the situation before re-engaging (perhaps).
/r
Dave "Doc" King
USA - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 15:57:32 (ZULU)
Mike/Undude
MikeMiller
CA, - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 16:07:17 (ZULU)
Welcome and please bear with us, it's different when we know ya'll are close by, I promise.
undude,
Did he say anything about the hot load takin the thing apart? I realize I can pack enough pistol powder into abything and make it explode but.... you'd think that someone with that kinda money and reloading ability... silly me!
John
Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 16:58:04 (ZULU)
Allow me to add a warm welcome to Sweetie!
We have corresponded, and MK4 has sent me a lot of stuff. I would have to call us kindred spirits.
My Child Bride and I went to the SHOT Show in Orlando a few months after we were married......some of the folks on this forum got to meet her. She also has helped me move two damn heavy gunsafes, and has humiliated me at the range.
She is, as I type this, writing thank-you notes to the generous donors to "Goodies for the Grunts".
Brian was a perfect gentleman around her, if you can believe that, even when he was table dancing for the female Israeli sniper. His momma raised him right.......and, yes, chicks do dig him. Child Bride included. Thankfully, she digs me more.
Nice to have you aboard, Sweetie. We could all use a little gentling influence, and I ain't got a clue as to what feminine products to buy.
We got a lot of women over there, risking their lives in defense of their country. Any input is appreciated.
Joe:
Hit me off-Roster. Got a military correspodent who may be interested in pushing "Goodies for the Grunts" locally. Need to discuss logistics with you.
Y'all Stay Safe!
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 17:52:57 (ZULU)
Sweetie shows up and Brian starts stammering out "ma'ams." I figured he was like me--all talk until the wife walks in the room. Heheh.
And welcome Missus Sweetie, shooters are shooters. (ain't that so Mrs. Mahon?). Double ha, wife's a lurker too. I found out right after the post on the minefield foray. She was pissed...Hi honey!
4i's: I'll say a prayer that your nephew stays home for a few months...it is getting busy in this business. But heck, the more we knock out now--the more decades we'll buy for our kids to enjoy some peace. Next?
Panty liners? Never ever tried that one. Then again, I ditched the K-pot for several of my more active years. I did witness a tampon save a life on a severed femoral; the tourniquet was to high on the thigh to be effective, but that tampon shoved in the hole (actually, in the damn artery) sure did the trick...That was in Hondo--not this one.
Bruce--we'll talk offline, but I am kind of nervous about wide spread address exposure. I'd hate to get something of a surprise either by way of customs violations or worse. I trust you guys and those you know--but newspapers may be a bit uncontrolled in that respect. Maybe we can work it--we'll see. I have a feeling I am about to be the most unpopular human with the mailroom weenies. Heheh. And all this is just in time for the All-Americans; they wasted no time making a splash in the media. Perhaps it is the effects of back to back to back wars; they came in with a vengeance! Go duece, get some!
I'll make a special effort to get some of the next deliveries to the paratroops. They're likely to be further out on the end of the supply chain...goes with the job description. The heavy troops have tracks and wheels, but these guys do alot of walking.
And I do a lot of planning. I hate chains to a desk...
Joe M.
Joe Mahon
Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 19:24:36 (ZULU)
Tampons for femoral bleeds.... I'm all for whatever works but why not use a hemostat, it is actually intended for that use.
medicjim
Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 19:58:57 (ZULU)
Peter Lincoln
germany - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 20:11:02 (ZULU)
A bit of advice... 1:4 is lousy odds, I suggest you take up endurance running or get more drinking buddies. Maybe even a medic in the lot.
Glad to see you are still as politically correct as ever <g>
medicjim
Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 20:49:41 (ZULU)
No chance of your addy going out. I want complete anonymity on this, myself included. I just want to see if we can get some under-the-table support from local sporting goods stores, Walmart, etc.
I keep everybody's info to myself.
But my goal is to make you vastly unpopular in the mail room.
Three boxes went out today. Guys in the local Post Office said God Bless You and the Troops. One, a friend of mine (they all are, after five years of mail-order business in a small town!) alerted me to the fact that tobacco products are banned to some camps.....didn't say which ones......but not to your addy. I scrupulously list all items on the customs forms. Spent the better part of the morning just doing the paperwork on this shipment. If you EVER run into any problems caused by my paperwork, give me a heads-up immediately, and I will correct it.
Tell the recipients that we are proud of them, and grateful beyond expression. Thanks to all who have chipped in (No Senators or Representatives yet.....)
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 21:46:52 (ZULU)
My God man, speak English.
... kidding pal. You doing good over there?
brian k. sain
Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 22:09:03 (ZULU)
Brian -- quit with the "Ma'am" crap. You'll make me feel old. And do real women dig you, too?
Dave "Doc" King -- Thanks for endorsing the feminine product idea. I'm sure that Navy types use them all the time, too. They aren't called "pier queers" for nothing. (Sorry if I offended anybody with that.) However, I hope the troops understand that the things are supposed to be worn on the INSIDE of the helmet, not the outside. Unless they're carrying extras for later? If I saw enemy forces wearing the things on the outside of the helmet, I too would retreat, but in hysterical laughter. Hubby and I went to Sam's Club to buy said items, and he picked them out. I've always hated the damn things. My only requirement was "no wings." I can just see some poor kid loaded down like a pack mule with regulation equipment and a very unregulation wing hanging down over his nose.
Bruce -- Although my pantry holds a New England Arms .223 fitted just for me and is always stocked with ammo, I can't claim to be much of a shooter. I hit the target just fine, but I don't get all wrapped up in reloading and all the technical stuff. I shoot what hubby loads for me. See if Child Bride would be interested in a "wive's shoot" sometime. And I too, believe in robbing the cradle. Hubby is 9 years younger than I. Like they always say, get 'em young and train 'em right....
Peter Lincoln -- I've only been to about 2 bars in Darmstadt, and I can't remember their names. All I know is I almost got thrown out of one because all I wanted was water. I was so sick of nothing but mineral water for days at the office that I couldn't even face beer (I'm more of a whiskey drinker). The proprietor announced to everyone that I was a %@##! American and everyone alternately laughed and glared at me. The guy I was with wanted to crawl under the table. I never learned "humiliate the customer" as a customer service concept. But then, I'm just a stupid American. This was probably 1996, and I worked for Software AG. Pretty original name, eh? Ah, the stories I could tell you about German management...
Last but not least, I can't help but note that only men use the term "panty liners." It's like only men say, "panties." Women say "Kotex" and "underwear." There must be something about the word "panty" that gets you guys all worked up.
Sweetie
MD, USA - Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 22:49:57 (ZULU)
I don't usually call ladies "Sweetie" until we've danced but hey, whatever works.
Here in the deep south, "Ma'am" is an automatic term of respect and courtesy to the female gender and it doesn't matter if she is 2 or 102.
However, I have never been accused of NOT accomodating a lady ... so Sweetie it shall be.
Can't answer your question though until you define "real women" for me.
However, if it's got wheels or legs ... I can either ride it, drive it or dance with it.
Nice to have you here,
Brian
brian k. sain
Friday, September 5, 2003, at 00:13:35 (ZULU)
Picked up some stuff today, 550 cord (small climbing shop gave me 50% off bulk partial roll 466ft). I stopped in to get some "chew" and not being a tobacco type was quite amazed at the selection...ended up with a 10 pack of Skoal Long Cut Wintergreen (original I guess). I'll be out tomorrow for tape (gotta look up a HVAC type and get connected with his supplier).
Sweetie...
I've never heard sailors referred to as "pier queers", must have been something started AFTER I retired. It's pretty funny thought and I'll remember to try it on the guys at work (Navy Hospital Bethesda MD).
Panties and panty liners vs Kotex and underware... when I think of Kotex I have a vision of something white and about the size of a small sleeping bag wedged tightly in place by several bungy cords and metal fasteners, panty liners are just 2-sided bandaids for underware! Underware are by definition worn under something... panties on the other hand are often considered an outer garment(s).
Bruce
Thanks for the Tobacco "warning"... I'll check with the folks at "my" Post Office before trying to send the Skoal out...they get confused here in the DC area. (If I lived in the Carolina's there'd probably be a law requiring ALL mail to contain some type of tobacco product "Here...stick this Marlboro right next to the 37cent stamp or it'll be rejected at the zip code scanner").
Take care
/r
Dave "Doc" King
USA - Friday, September 5, 2003, at 01:55:05 (ZULU)
Sweetie, Ma'am...
What Brian (In)Sain & Doc King said.
I never heard Pier Queer,neither... but I ain't offended either.
(20 years Navy)
Sharon
Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, US of A!! - Friday, September 5, 2003, at 04:13:33 (ZULU)
A twentysomething female friend of my wife wants to "shoot a gun", and since she and I are pretty good friends, I told her to come on down to the farm some weekend and we'll burn through some bullets. I plan on introducing the basic firearm safety stuff, but my question is what do we shoot? I have the whole array of stuff from a 22 pistol up to an M1A, but what should I put in her hands first? I started off with a .410 double, but that might not have been the best choice.
Anyhow, what do you guys and gals think is the best thing to introduce a person to firearms would be? By the way, she is not a dainty, girly type, she's a farmer's daughter so she can probably physically handle anything under a .300 win mag.
Thank you for your help, either e-mail or posts will be fine.
Matt
Central, Illinois, - Friday, September 5, 2003, at 05:02:33 (ZULU)
A .22 rifle. If she hasn't fired anything before then she's no different than a 10 year old. Start at the beginning. Anything bigger is going to be an introduction into recoil "shock." Also, go get you a melon so she can see the after-effects of what that bullet can do to soft material.
--
Man, you guys sure act different when the wimmen folk are around ;)))
Mk4
Texas, God Bless America, United States of America - Friday, September 5, 2003, at 05:58:24 (ZULU)
Just wanted to jump out of lurk mode. I still am getting a butt load of infected emails.
Went back to the old 175 gr 44.5 Varget load. Still shoots great. I shot a 5 shot group that ran about an inch at 200 the other day. George sure knows how to build them.
Wife let me buy a new toy. Limited run Kimber Target II 1911 in 9mm. Sweet... Can not wait to try it out. Put a set of cocobolo grips on it I won last year at a match.
Bruce, gunna send you a check so you can keep that slacker Joe M busy. Not real busy spent all my money on the above mentioned pistol.
Dirty Steve, back to lurk mode, out.
Steve Dickerson
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, September 5, 2003, at 07:48:25 (ZULU)
Sweetie, me thinks i typed sweaty earlier, appologies, since coming to germany my spelling went out the window, ah so you noticed the friendly attitude of the local population in DA then, yep, it is the most unfriendly city i have ever had the misfortune to visit, i live out of town and the folks there are much nicer. You should have stood up in that bar and told em they could all relax now because an American was there to stop any trouble and as we won the war any way they should get the damn beers in. management... thats a subject for off line.
Well my wet steiner bino's should have arived at the factory in Bayreuth by now so i'm expecting to hear something from Steiner customer service dept.
Ant of you lot seen that Bruce Willis film, Traenen unter die Sonne ( eh, i mean something like tears under the sun, or of the sun, dunno what its called in english)?. your thoughts on the film would interest me, i thought it had a political message especialy aimed at these limp dick no war european folk. Positive propaganda i thought.
Pete L
Peter Lincoln
Germany - Friday, September 5, 2003, at 08:06:29 (ZULU)
Thanks for all your help and your right, I'm trying to chase the best optics for the least amount of money.
I've just finished cleaning a pair 7x50 Carl Zeiss and I'll have a the 8x56 Swarovskis back soon (I hope) both are rather heavy weight binoculars, okay for high seat (tree stand) shooting but static stalking............
Thanks again.
John
John
Wales - Friday, September 5, 2003, at 09:09:38 (ZULU)
I have found a nice 1964 vintage full stock MS carbine in 6.5 X 54. Includes claw mounts and a cheap German 4X. The carbine appears to be all original except for the butt pad. I have seen lots a of good pictures of the gun but have not had it in my hands. The question is: was this gun or could it have been originally fitted with a recoil pad vs steel butt plate? It now wears a Pachmayer but since I haven't held the gun I can't tell if the stock is shortened. Value range in the US?
Marc
Marc Palmer
Friday, September 5, 2003, at 09:16:21 (ZULU)
Marc
I'm don't know where you live but in the UK _any_ 6.5mm rifle brings in the bucks. Better than the .243 on any deer, quieter than the .308 and with a moderator fitted, no recoil (or very little.
BUT if it doesn't shoot straight, it's not worth "buck".
I've seen similar in the UK firearms auctions and they have had almost a "baker-light" (spelling?) butt pad (sort of a very hard ABS, very brittle).
I've got a Mannlicher "pro-hunter" in .243" and the value just keeps rising :) new they are around £700 now, when I purchased mine it was £400.
HTH
John
John
Wales - Friday, September 5, 2003, at 09:55:46 (ZULU)
Thanks,
Marc
Marc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Friday, September 5, 2003, at 12:57:59 (ZULU)
I'm also going for the first time with Hart barrels, instead of my usual Shilens....no real reason for that....however, I've noticed through many of the "competitors equipment lists" for many of the long range shoots that it seems Kreiger barrels are being used by the vast majority or shooters......
JRMoore
JRMoore
Northern, Virginnie, USofWonderfulA - Friday, September 5, 2003, at 13:41:36 (ZULU)
Depends on you use. If its a tactical go with a 26" if its F class go longer. I have no trouble pushing my 140AMAX to 3000 with a 26" if I want. I stay in the 2950 to 2975 range with mine. I have shot it to 1300yds with no problems.
I use the 1-8 twists with a 3 grove and have used the 6 groves also. I like the 3 grove I think the throat last longer and they seem to stabilize the long bullets better, but no solid proof of that.
Gentleman asking about PAC NOR barrels...
Great barrels, have had 5 of them all have been great shooters. Super customer relations dept. They have also donated barrels to matches I have shot at. I think we need to support companies that support us.
Pat
Friday, September 5, 2003, at 15:14:29 (ZULU)
Yeah, we wished for hemos. All we had in the valley at the time was some Honduran security (who were playing with frags and caused the amputation of one of their kids' leg) and a couple of dental techs (one who was on the rag) and two lonely SF guys with M3 bags. The surgical kits were a few clicks away in another village. Use what's available. Heck, it worked. The kids other injuries were pretty extensive, but 100 mph tape worked on the chest cavity perforations, and the abdominal wound was light but gross. That one took the dental chicks out of the fight. Heheh. They puked, as I remember now.
82d, they have three BCTs...and the stan...between it all, it is a merry go round with bullets. Seems nobody can take a break longer than a few weeks in some units. I wasn't referring to those here from day one--I'm referring to those who got home from one op only to do their laundry for the next. Teased by Ft. Bragg and a few precious moments with family, then sent once more into the breach.
Uh-oh, a rant comes on:
Mr. Rumsfeld, I would suggest that we do need a larger Army. Didn't you read that message traffic a few weeks ago?
We are in Liberia (bad juju unless we choose sides), Kosovo, Bosnia, Afganistan, Here, Korea (and reinforced there), Columbia, Phillipines and Sinai; these are the locked and loaded locales. We're also playing in Djibouti, Qatar, Egypt (south of Suez), Saudi (still), the stans up north, Hondo, and half dozen latin american locales; these are the weapons ready locales. Add to this the taskers for the homeland, Germany, MIL assistance missions through embassys, and various MTTs throughout greater Africa. Well, 480K active troops end up tripping over each other in the global four corners.
As a former recruiter, I see problems in the making as more and more of our troops are married with kids. The stress will hit hard soon. No soldier ever had a problem with the occassional war and sporadic deployments here and there--it was steady state at half and half any given year. Even then, we all talked about optempo being at the breaking point. Now, we're just adding to it beyond anyone's worst projections...and I wonder how rentention will play out in the coming year.
Consider all this as we watch the political maneuvers in the UN and NATO for additional support. Getting help within certain terms ain't such a bad idea. Us old guys are okay--the younger troops are really having a tough time. Young wives, great expectations, and deployments often spell divorce. Hell, I've had three myself in quieter times. If we let this get out of control--there will be hell to pay in the near future.
They can ban all the tobacco they want; I use heli's and land cruisers. I fly or drive right by the customs nazis. And, there is no ban on tobacco anywhere on the troops intheater--just the usual fixed buildings, and I guess in mailrooms in some locales. First I've heard that one. But to recieve it here and deliver it there is no violation of any regulations. Just don't send porn or alcohol--that IS banned and will get the whole box confiscated--or my butt in a jam if it slips through!!! That potential of slipping through is also why I want my addy held close hold. Ya jes' never know...
Joe M.
Joe Mahon
Friday, September 5, 2003, at 15:22:47 (ZULU)
Ive got hundreds of old but plates here, i'll have alook if there is one from a shöenauer and you can have that with the 9mm bits i promised you.
Just took delivery of my new gun safe 10 mins ago, man handled the heavey bitch into the cellar.
I got chance of some of them Zeiss jena 7x40 with the tritium? ret illumination and the ir filters and all the other bits n pieces, what do you figure they are worth, in very good condition, he wants 200 euros for em.. Pete
Peter Lincoln
Germany - Friday, September 5, 2003, at 19:04:14 (ZULU)
I like 1:8 twist, 1:8.5 at most. It may be a bit much, but I don't have to worry about it being unstabile, and I haven't had a problem with loosing bullets. I use an R5 Rock and a 6 groove Border. I'd have to say that both shoot(shot) great.
My next 2 barrels will be Borders, no doubt. AND, I can get R5's from Border now, so it's one stop shopping. Plus, I hear the tube driller is a nice guy ;)
I prefer 30" barrels, but I'm a match shooter. I could hit 3100fps in my 26" Rock if I didn't mind loosing primer pockets. Now, I run conservative loads at 2950fps and it drills 'em at 1K. We have a FagMag shooter win all the time, running 142's at 2750!!
I'm convinced length and rifling profile doesn't mean as much at barrel quality and work the miracle workers who screw it all together do. So long as you have a fast enough twist to stabilize the bullet.
If you are going to use Norma or Lapua brass, my advice is to get the 6.5x284Norma Chamber. The WIN chambers works great, but the .300" neck works the brass a bit more. A .296 to .297 neck will let you use Lapua or Norma brass with minimal working of the brass, and you won't have to neck turn.
Have fun with it!!!
Chris...
Chris
Friday, September 5, 2003, at 20:00:49 (ZULU)
My 24" 1:8 twist .260 can easily push the 142 to 2750... why would anyone want to go with the long action and extra cost associated with the x284 and only push to 2750?
BTW - I absolutely love my .260
medicjim
Friday, September 5, 2003, at 20:15:24 (ZULU)
Well, it's now Ohhh-fish-eee-alll. I'm in the Army now. I did the final MEPS shit yesterday and swore in and signed the dotted line. Looks like I'll be doing boot at beautiful, sunny Ft. Sill (I was hoping for Jackson, but oh well...). I ship out on October 29th. Should make for a really happy Halloween ;)). One thing that kinda bugged me though at the swear in. Apparently, so as to not offend anyone, "So help me God" is now optional. At least everyone said it though. After boot, I immediately go to Ft. Myer and assume my duties there.
Later
Rich
Rich S.
MD, - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 00:56:29 (ZULU)
It appears that I don't come across quite the same way in print as I intend. Brian, I apologize for not appreciating the respectful way in which you addressed me. I'm just not used to it! As for defining Real Women, the best I can offer is that RWs aren't waiting for Mr. Right to fix their lives. THAT could be a fun off-line discussion.
Dave "Doc" King -- We're practically neighbors! You should come up and visit sometime.
Major Joe -- 2 boxes of books are on their way to you. I need to find a huge box for all the stuff we got yesterday. Hope this doesn't cause problems for you!
Peter Lincoln -- If you addressed me as "sweaty" I didn't even notice. Pretty cute Freudian slip, if you ask me.... I'll check out the Bruce Willis movie you mentioned. And can anyone explain why Mr. Willis married the humorless Demi Moore? I understand her physical appeal, but criminy she takes herself way too seriously.
Marc -- I first fired a shotgun, then a .357, then a rifle. I think that the best gun to learn on is one that fits the best. Hubby deliberately got me a youth model single-shot .223 to minimize potential damage and make it easier for me to handle. I'm right-handed but left-eye dominant, so a lot of guns don't work well for me. To be perfectly accurate, he wanted to idiot-proof it as much as possible. And the world is a better place for it.
And for the rest of you, don't act differently just because you've been invaded by women. We've been lurking all along anyway.
Sweetie
MD, USA - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 01:22:11 (ZULU)
Don
Don K.
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 01:39:59 (ZULU)
Noted the new posts on the 6.5 X .284. Medic Jim stumps for the .260 and I admit it's a good cartridge. Still believe the 6.5 X .284 is better.
I have a long action on my 6.5 X .284 Chandler rifle and don't see any draw backs. NONE! If you're that hung up on the short action I have the solution.
Get a short Montana Rifle Company Action! They are short action, controlled round feed with M98 style breeching and Win 70 trigger/safety. One piece bottom metal. Available in Chrome-moly or Stainless. I have two on order. The reason? Even though they are short actions the magazine box handles cartridges to 3.125" OAL! Also, available in left or right hand action! My 6.5 X .284 Norma load measures 2.98" OAL with Sierra 142's and getting 2,950 FPS. Am going to build one as a sporter and keep the other for a later project.
Chris is right. Get the 6.5 X .284 Norma reamer. No neck turning and almost no working of the brass! I'm using Redding Competion dies. Runnout is non-exhistent. Recommend live pilot reamers from Dave Kiff, at Pacific Precision. He built the original reamers for Jeff Hoffman, at Black Hills Ammo, for their testing and loads.
Damn, loving the .308, but stumping for the 6.5 X .284, again. Does that tell you something?
Chris, Kevin, myself, and others are using it and found no faults with it except a shorter barrel life.
Jim, I agree with your assessment about our young troops and divorces. Been married X3, myself. Another problem is the continued use of "reserve" troops, as though they are active duty. The attendant problems with marraiges, divorce, and an "active" reserve component is going to be another problem. Folks join the reserve, so they can still benefit, be ready for major wars, and still be able to go to school, hold a job, and have a semblance of a normal lifestyle. With continued use of the reserve component the numbers of reserves is going to drop and recruiting is not going to work.
Possible solution is to go back to the old time "professional" forces were it was not uncommon to find 10, 15, and 20 year corporals. The service was home for them and they were damn good.
All for now. We move on the September 14-16. Yeahaw...my back already hurts.
Sweetie, welcome to the list. Know you wimmen "lurk", but it's nice to have a member, of the other gender, here with us. Good to see you have a sense of humor, too!
Semper Fi,
Sir Wes
Wes Howe
Blodgett, OR, USA - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 03:11:47 (ZULU)
"Anybody know of any good rifle ranges down around Mytle Beach?"
Last year there wasn't that I knew of. Hell, they were happy to get an indoor range recently.
If anyone knows of a rifle range, speak up. I'd love to hear of it, too.
Hank
Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 03:22:35 (ZULU)
I hope we have a good week-end! Since it is fall, I have been thinking about the quarter backs that can pass a football 60-70 yards.
I wonder if they calculate for Spindrift?!?! :) :)
Sorry just having fun.............Long day!!!!!!!!!
All in fun guys,
BearMan
BearMan
Indy, Indiana, U.S.A. - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 03:36:24 (ZULU)
I had good luck at 1000 with a 30" 1 in 8 6.5x.284 loading to 2850fps until I put the third barrel on. It was a Shillen and just liked about 2650fps. Action was a Tikka. Still kick myself for selling that gun, but I had to finance the .375/.500 project I'm working on. Anyone have good ballistic software that can do some abstract reasoning? I reamed the die already and have a good case capacity number and know the bullet weight(s) and BC(s), but my software just gives me numbers for existing cartridges and a few popular wildcats.
Robert Martin
FL, USofA - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 03:59:49 (ZULU)
You need to check your email more closely. There *was* a reply to your last email from last night. I sent another one this evening and I'll try and send a reply thru the DR.
jc
jcopeland
Cordova, TN, USA - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 05:20:21 (ZULU)
I'm trying to find out what the reticle is in the old M22 binos for an AF SP guy here.
I dont have any reference materials handy and I'm suffering from CRS.
Could someone post the mils of the parts of the reticle, please?
Thanks!
Nick,
I didnt have duty the other night - the schedule got changed at the last minute. I'll try to call you soon. We've got a phone now at our shop...
~DA
Dakota Aviator
Karshi, UZBK - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 09:07:50 (ZULU)
One of the great overlooked Binoculars are the Fujinon 10x70 Polaris often used for astronomy (which I what I got mine for). 70 mm objective lenses, 10x magnification, lots of light, lots of clarity. US Military units use them often for glassing the countryside at power in dusk/dawn conditions. They run about $670US. Zeiss and Svarowski are great, but very pricey as most European-produced optics are.
Give them a look. Optically these are superb binoculars, if a bit heavy. Do it like a sniper does - get yourself an observer to carry a spotting scope and binos. Remember a proper military or police sniper's PRIMARY job is intelligence gathering on the scene. You only shoot AFTER you know what you've got going on. Sounds like your situation in this regard is similar.
Frank
Frank
CA, USA - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 09:45:11 (ZULU)
Maryland is a smallish state IMO and I consider anyplace in the state as a local drive... I'd be honored to visit with you and you significant other...maybe we'll be able to shoot a bit some day.
Bruce
I haven't had much luck finding OD duct tape in anything other than the 10 yard rolls available at the Army PX...have you found a good source? There's always the Internet but I'd rather buy local (face to face).
6.5 x 284 Mines a 28 inch PacNor barrel on a Remington 700 LA. I don't remember the twist, pretty tight if I recall (1x8 I'd guess). After several calls and searching I chose the Norma reamer...the rifle shoots 3 shot sub .25 MOA groups with the 142 Sierra and virgin Lapua brass...H4831...2864fps. The groups open up when shooting the Honrady 140 A-Max, not much but a little.
Dave "Doc" King
Damascus, MD, USA - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 11:47:48 (ZULU)
I need a stock for the boy's model seven (.260). My wife will take him hunting this year in my absense, but I ran out of time to fix the problem of the nasty stock it came in (last year I did some emergency inletting to relieve the torqued foreend but it still sat 5 degrees off centerline). Now, I just want to get a drop in mail ordered, but I have to "clear" websites to get through the firewall here (as I did for SC). So, any good sources for it is appreciated. Saves me alot of effort and dead ends if one of you knows where I can go.
Looking for synthetic, youth pull, and maybe a source to get it bedded properly. It all needs to be ready by end of November. I can purchase from here, if I know where to look up front!
Hey Geoff, want to experiment with bedding a riffle? You wanted to get some practice for your sticks, and I do not mind in the least if you turn it into a permanent combo. I'll wittle it off for the barrel job later! I plan to turn it into something a bit nicer for his 16th b-day anyway.
Ya know, it occurred to me that tobacco prohibtions may be to curtail black marketing. Shortages do that in every war--this one is probably no different. I thought about this up front, and that is why I do the distro the way that I do. Using unit 1SGs at the company level, the red cross volunteers and LTCs commanding the camps is my way to prevent this. I really must be very careful myself in this respect. The amount you folks are sending will raise eyebrows. I have another field grade and an NCO sitting here when I open each box, we inventory and plan our "push" based on units moving through our system or re-pack for the next road trip (or air) further up the road. It is more to prevent the appearance of wrong---I would not, could not do otherwise. My honor is only as good as I make it--and perception can be everything. For the cynical liberals to whom honor is alien, I say: who's dumb enough to trade twenty two years of honorable service for a few bucks? Either way, I placed controls on this to eliminate the suspicion of wrong doing to ensure no general curtails me in this out of "prevention." Forearmed, just in case someone questions me.
And I owe all of you that much assurances and so much more for what you each are doing to support our troops. Words cannot express the uplift you provide to tired soldiers by offering a few goodies they can't get elsewhere here. Like Bruce said, that 1SG from the 101st acted like I was Ed McMahon's prize patrol when I handed him a roll of snuff for his boys.
What I tell the soldiers who ask is "just thank these folks by volunteering when you get home. Teach a kid how to shoot so we always have the means to defend our nation..."
I really do not want to advertise this site, or provide any names unless okayed individually. The last thing I want is for this to become a teenage chat room!
Bruce, can you send me a pile of business cards? The 82d kids liked the mildotmaster a whole bunch...
Joe M.
Joe Mahon
Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 13:05:37 (ZULU)
Congrats on your decision and acceptance. Good luck at camp and (don't) brake a leg. :) How's that .17 shootin?
Sweetie,
You're gonna be a welcome breath of fresh air for this place, I can tell.
Doc K.
OD duct tape, try Grainger Supply, Inc, It may be an all mail order kinda place. If so, they'll have a website I'm sure. I'm sure I've seen it in larger rolls.
jcopeland,
Lost your address.:(( re: 30-06 cart. please resend.
Off to the U.S. nationals today. Oughta be some records broke with this weather we've got.
Anybody seen 'Yote bait?
John
Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 14:07:40 (ZULU)
Hey man, no problems. I stopped in and the other guy on duty told me you will have it next week. I'll stop by again this week and see what's going on, maybe you won't be so busy.
Everybody else,
Ya'lls gots ta stop this talk about the 6.5X284. Fatboy picked one up for me recently and I can't even fondle my new toy for another couple of months! Oh the humanity!
Question for the collective wisdom. A highly respected individual around here stated something to the fact that the barrett big 50 cal should not be fired more than 6 times in a 24 hour period due to physical reasons. Only thing I can think of is so as not to develop a flinch. Does anybody here know why this would be or heard of this before? This individual is pretty smart and has his poop in a group so I don't think he's blowing smoke up our posteriors. I'm curious as to why, I haven't had time to ask him personally yet. Thanks.
Nick
Nicholas a Gebhardt
K2, none, Uzbek - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 16:02:34 (ZULU)
Is this the info you are looking for; "Reticle in left ocular with 5 meter increments at 1000 meters"?
Will continue search if not.
Later,
P.S. - I don't know if this will help but just in case; http://www.schaper.net/binoculars/steiner/m22/ it is the TM 9-1240-403-12 & P
Operator's and Organizational Maintenance Manual
(including Repair Parts List)
Binocular M22
(1240-01-207-5787)
Byron
CA, USA - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 16:04:48 (ZULU)
Sarge
Sarge
Area 51, NM, USA - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 17:59:34 (ZULU)
Sent ya an email.
Swing by the shop @ 1500 (local) on Sunday - our unit is BBQ'ing. Bring a buddy if you like. I'll look for you there.
Byron (and others) regarding the Mil reticle:
Got the info... Thanks!
Anyone ever tried to de-mil a 40mm barrel from a Spectre? Talk about wearing out chop saw blades... Makes some nice paperweights though.
Cant wait to get my hands on the 105mm barrel to de-mil. Trying to talk into making a spud gun out of it before we cut it up. We could mount it on our Gator.
Somehow I dont think PMO will like that.
Later,
DA
Dakota Aviator
Karshi, Uzbek - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 18:22:43 (ZULU)
60 pound box of "Grunt Goodies" went out Priority Mail today. Let me know when they make it to you. Keep up the good work and keep your head down!
Marc
Marc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 18:45:02 (ZULU)
I is back Pete. I'll give you a ring. Sent you mail to work and home, but home bounced. Prague was nice, but not as cheap as I had hoped; S&B scopes well over £500 for the hunting types, so on a par with UK.
Range was cancelled this morning. Got the call while half way there. Was going to try these 155 Scenars in the 300WM sat on a stack of Vhit N560. Always a next time.
Jon
Jon Beardsley
Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 19:09:02 (ZULU)
Just read your original question. I use Swarovskis (8x30) for work here in the Lakes and I too have had fogging problems. As Mark said they are very good on the service and they have been repaired free of charge TWICE. When they come back they look new.
When I was working in Scotland the FC HAD been using Swarovski about a year before I started, but they had also had fogging problems, so had gone over to Ziess. I used a pair of 10x40 for 3 years and was pleased with them. They were, however, a bit dim in low light, but as most of my shooting was in the open it wasn't a big deal (so too are my 8x30s). I have a pair of my own Swarovski 7x42 SLC and they are as bright as a pair of Ziess 8x56 and I have had no trouble with these (though don't use them as much as the work set). If I were to buy a new pair I would go for 7x42 Lieca; expensive, but N-I-C-E!!!
You will have to weigh up what your needs are. If you want close detail requiring power and good low light ability you will have to sacrifice on size and weight. To be honest my 8x30s do the job and they don't buckle your neck when you carrying them day in, day out.
On the fogging, your not de-misting them with the windscreen blowers are you? I only ask as I know this can cause them to go. I once knew someone this happened to ;-).
Hope this helps, and don't hesitate to contact me if you want a chat.
Jon
Jon Beardsley
Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 19:40:46 (ZULU)
I am not aware of any official policies that way but I kinda agree!!! Fricking thing used to give me a headache!!!!!!!
Gooch
Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 00:51:38 (ZULU)
Pat_T
Pat_T
Upland, Ca, USA - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 00:58:41 (ZULU)
A good couple of days. Balance was down to $3.45 in the Goodies for the Grunts fund, but SCLE # 23 Owner, and Pat (HA) kicked in on Friday, then today I received donations from a LT in ND, medicjim, and a very generous individual in Canada, $315.00 total!
Now the Child Bride can hit Wally World with a budget of $318.45!
Folks, if you want to contribute, but don't want to be identified, just state so in an enclosed note. I will respect your anonymity. I have tried to be cautious here to avoid identifying anyone beyond what they write as their handle........but, by God, you folks who contribute to this deserve acknowledgement, if not praise.
People in the parking lot of the Los Lunas Post Office were wondering why the Child Bride and I were both a bit misty-eyed as we opened our mail in the pick-up.
I have received contributions from folks out of work, folks with spouses incurring some serious medical expenses........but they still wanted to make life a little better for our guys and gals in the sandboxes.
Doc, Sweetie, Marc (60 pounds!!!!!!),
Child Bride and I light up like Christmas trees when we hear about other packages going out! We sit here watching the Tennessee game and swilling beer........and Joe and his compatriots risk their lives. I cannot begin to express our admiration and appreciation.
May God Bless You All. And keep our troops safe.
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 02:15:34 (ZULU)
http://www.loadammo.com/
(click on my name for the URL)
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 02:39:26 (ZULU)
Had a real heart-stopping moment at work today and you're the only folks I know who can relate. One of my jobs is delivering mail on a rural route in my town. Today I delivered a letter to a little girl and the return address read simply, "Daddy, Ft Benning, GA." It took my breath away when I read it. The house where that little girl lives is in the process of being remodeled. I've seen the father working on it, and wondered why progress had recently stopped. Now I know why.
This little town has a lot of service members stationed all over the world. But that letter really brought home to me the impact of what we're doing to fight terrorism. Tonight I pray that the little girl's Daddy makes it back home safely, and soon.
Sweetie
MD, USA - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 04:30:52 (ZULU)
Thanks,
BearMan
BearMan
Indy, Indiana, U.S.A. - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 08:25:31 (ZULU)
how to use the reticle is explained in the lense cap on tyhe bino's Formula for vertyical scale Distance = effective size divided by size read x 1000m 0r effectice size = distance x size read shared by 1000m. basicaly used the same as the mildot reticle but x 10 bigger. The reticle in the M22 is designed for ranging etc for directing supporting arms fire as apposed to actualy estimating range for the sniper, it can be used but using the mildot reticle in the rifle scope will give you more accuracy as you have 11 reference points subtended into 10 mils(if you count the ends of the thick part of the reticle, the 8 dots and the cross in the middle) rather than just 3. hope that helps.
Jon, do they have sheep in Prague? did Ian get his rings yet?
Ref the bino's for John, despite the fact that my damn mil spec M22 steiner binos let water in, i am still recomending steiner as the company to go with,(i'm sure it was a one off and i'm hopeing they are going to cross my palm with silver to compensate for the nuisance, and of course if they don"t i'll start telling every body what a load of shit thier bino's are even is i still think they are great) the optical quality is excellent, ive compared my older 7x50's ( the ones that steiner replaced the lenses in free of charge after i had spend 5 years scratching them with tissue paper to wipe of the damn rain.) to comparable bino's from swarovski and zeiss and the steiners as good if not better. Sure the Leica's have the edge, but its like the difference between a mercedes benz and a volkswagen, the tiny bit of extra optical quality in the leica's isn't in my opinion worth the extra cost. You are correct in saying about drying the lenses out using the car heater causing problems, the heat makes parts of the binos expand and causes seals to leak, the steiners at garanteed from something like -50 deg c to + 80 deg C, i dried my older 7x50's out like that on numerouse occasions with no problems, they have been dropped from high seats, used as a bipod, thrown at the dog, used and abused and have never let me down, and i was dumb enough to lend em to some one thinking the new ones were good to go, bugger.. tell you what i would do with any new bino's in the future and that is stick em in the bath for a few days (now thats ok for you welsh boys because i know you don't use the bath more than once a month) and see if they let any moisture in,put them in the freezer and then back in the bath, then on the radiator of mid heat, then back in the bath if they fail , send the sods back if they pass then you shouldn't have any bother when you are hunting.
Ive got the Franconia catalog here in front of me and just for example i'll post some prices.
Zeiss: Victory 10 x40 1229 euro.
8x40 1159 euro.
Dailyt 7x42 1029 euro.
8x56 1199 euro.
8x30 969 euro.
Swarovski: SLC 10x42 1259 euro
7x42 1159 euro
8x30 959 euro like yours Jon
Habicht 10x40 889 euro
7x42 789 euro.
Steiner:Nighthunter
xp 7x50 779 euro
9x40 749 euro
8x30 599 euro
Leica Duivid 8-12x42 1650 euro
10-15x50 1900 euro
Ultravid 7x42 1300 euro
10x42 1450 euro
Trinovid 8x42 1145 euro
10x42 1195 euro
these are Recomended retail price, the bino's can be had anywhere from 15 to 25 % cheaper than that on the open market, I also see that Kahles are producing bino's that are comparable to the steiners in magnification application and price (they are slightly more expensive than steiner, but it is minimal) check the prices above against whats advertised in the Gun Markt.
Jon ive used your issue 8x30's and although they are an adequate day time stalking glass, they are useless at dawn or dusk, i'd like to compare em to the steiner night hunter 8x30's and i'm hopeing atleast to get a set of these out of steiner due to the wet 7x50's so we can test em side by side, i intend to use 8x30 as a stalking glass and carry the 7x50's in my rucksack for use when its dark, i also need a spotting scope.
Pig hunting tonight, haven't done that for nearly 7 weeks..
Pete
Peter Lincoln
D - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 12:05:20 (ZULU)
Glad your doin well over yonder. Someday we'll both show up at AEDC at the same time. :)
Barrett 50. Feb. 18, 2001. M82A1, Fired 186 rounds in a period of 4 hours with one other individual. No discernable physical ailments that a few advil and beer wouldn't cure. I heard some rumors about retinal detachment if fired in excess of ?? # of shots but according to a tech at Barrett it was BS. He routinely fired over 200 rounds per day for a long time. Maybe we could get Dr. Marc, (I know it ain't your specialty) to weigh in. I'd say, if not done with care, i.e., position, hold, etc., or if you had an existing problem, you could hurt your self. I bet your "poop ina group" buddy heard the retina story. HTH.
U.S. Nationals are awesome. 1/4 mile in 4.5 seconds less than 50 yards in front of you is a heart thumping experience. Met Jesse James yesterday. Just a regular guy with a death wish like some others I know. :)) He autographed my son's helmet. Now he(PJ) won't wear it anymore. Off to the Harley Shop at 09:00. :))
John
Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 12:41:47 (ZULU)
Had a buddy from Bragg that worked on a 50 project at Aberdeen a couple of years ago and he told me they limited the # of rounds fired in a 24 hour period{don't remember the exact #} due to the risk of seperated retinas from recoil, and nausea caused by exposure to the muzzle blast.
outa here
Markwell
The Alleghenies, WV, - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 12:49:51 (ZULU)
If I were concerned enough about low light capability I would rather go for one decent set of 7x42 instead of humping 2 sets around. I'm the first to admit the 8x30s lack low light performance, their power is too high for the small objective lens to cope with, BUT they are handy for MOST of the work I do and save on the neck strain. If I feel the need to have more light gathering (when I know of animals going in/coming out right on first/last light) I will take my 7x42s (did I just contradict myself about the 2 set argument then? :-/).
The 7x42 SLCs I have are heavy and quite large compared to the Liecas, which is why I would stump for them if I were going to buy again. The only complaints I have with the Stieners (and I say this not having much experience of them) are, I find them a bit more cumbersome than roof prism designs, and I noted on yours that the colour has a definate bias (a yellow tinge if I remeber right). I suppose thats why they are so cheap ;-).
We shall definately have to put them side by side in low light to get the definative answer as to whether there is any discernable difference. Like I said before, I have had my 7x42 SLCs next to a set of 8x56 Ziess (which cost a couple of hundred GBPs more) and could see no difference in image brightness as night fell, though obviously the Ziess had a higher magnified image which allowed a bit more detail to be seen. The Ziess were, however, B-I-G!! So you have to weigh up if you want to be humping big binos around. If your static, then no problem, but long periods of carrying them on foot, or crawling about with them and they soon become a pain in the arse.
No sheep in Prague.
Jon
Jon Beardsley
Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 13:24:25 (ZULU)
Peter Lincoln
D - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 15:04:16 (ZULU)
I send letters home addressed that way myself...that really hits home. Received Box one today, and I deliver tomorrow to Camp Virginia to bolster that library that SC has established there. This camp has direct ties to most units; and it is run by a senior NC SBI agent turned LTC for the duration. I do this job for a living, the real heroes are the guys and gals who are policemen, plumbers or grocers that walk away from their civilian occupations and defend freedom whereever and whenever asked. I am humbled in their company here. This man in particular, LTC Byrd, is one of the best Officers I've known in my career. I never once thought he was part-time; he is a consumate professional. Turns out he knew Angie from her Hoke County Sheriff days, and the infamous missing 5 year old girl investigation. I'll visit his AO tomorrow, and drop off these books.
A war story of the homefront:
Other heroes, not known to me personally, are the young officers, two times daily of late, who go to the families of our fallen across the length and breadth of the United States. Bringing the most horrible news, these men and women then become the grief-stricken families' guide and counsel, quietly handling the details of paperwork, finances and spiritual support invisibly to the devastated family. They stay, often for weeks, until all is settled, becoming, more often than not, life long friends in the process.
Oddly, you never know what to do or what to say once tagged for this. You drive out to the address, spinning thoughts through your head, wondering "how" to deal with what you are dealing with. Nothing gels, there is no plan even as you hit the LD, no words that work can come to mind, you arrive still unsure of how to say "it." It is a forced march up the walkway, slowly--but not too slow, you mustn't linger now, words failing you mentally all the way. The knock, the answer, and the strength from God takes over and words you never imagined were inside you just come out. Somehow, these words begin to add small comfort in that hurricane of emotions erupting around this family of complete strangers, somehow---this duty becomes an obligation of honor; somehow, it just happens, you become a family member along the way and they are no longer strangers; they are friends in dire need of your help.
I never would volunteer again, nor would I dodge this duty. I would move the mountain to be the one for this if I ever lost one of my own. But, It was the hardest duty I ever pulled. I pray that we as a service never get good at it...I pray that we won't be doing it again tomorrow. But I see the process first hand as part of my operation here; and sadly--this hasn't slowed down like we thought, prayed for--it is all too real and too frequent still.
I was at camp wolf yesterday watching a plane load up for Dover, and I spent all night remembering that young widow in Wisconsin, I remembered that those shiny boxes each represent a life lost, each has a devestated family waiting in grief...and I had no where else to turn. Thanks for this place....thanks for the friendship I can find here on this roster.
I really need glasses, my eyes blurred again...
And I thank all of you; you make it better over here for our troops.
Sorry for the dump of the heavy stuff. I'm totally stunned by this roster's cadre of fine folks and the generosity of each...and, it was a long sleepless night after watching the caskets head home. I needed to vent away from my own. I came here.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon
Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 15:04:37 (ZULU)
I'm hoping to get to AEDC sometime before X-Mas. No idea if it'll work out that way but it would be nice. I'll be back stateside in less than 2 weeks but won't get back "home" until mid Jan. I'm getting a couple of schools out of this deal as well. Thanks for the rumor about the retina theory also. It made me wonder mostly what it would affect physically, I couldn't think of anything. No big deal though.
Nick
Nicholas A Gebhardt
K2, none, Uzbek - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 17:53:19 (ZULU)
Garry, SFC, US Army, Retired
aka Sarge
Sarge
Area 51, NM, USA - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 21:28:48 (ZULU)
Vent all you want to. We can't all be over there, but we're all here for ya!
Thanks.
Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 21:33:47 (ZULU)
Nick- I and my buddy have shot the Barretts a lot with no ill effects (does sanity count?=) I fired 250 rds of Spanish MG surplus ammo in one sitting no big problems other than a little bit of a sore shoulder the next day. Now that HSM AMAX stuff I mentioned earlier was a different story...1 round show over..Corps man, my face! Over the years between the M96 and the M82A1 my buddies and I have shot a lot of 50 with no negative results noticed yet (except to the wallet).
Pete L- You have a nice selection of jerky in country, just let me know what address you want it to go to. Also, hope your wife is feeling better and you're getting some good hunts in. My home front seems to be taking a turn for the better and we're talking about getting back to the Fatherland maybe a little sooner than planned. So I'll let you know when.
At the range Thursday a gent was off loading an old Redfield D-60 15x60 spotitng scope that had been rebuilt by Redfield. Very clear glass I liked it and ended up trading him 3 boxes of Federal 375 H&H mag Safari ammo, I had lying around for some odd reason, for it. I'll try it for a while and see if I'll keep it or not.
I got the strangest mail from my cousin in A'stan yesterday. It was a one liner reading "Send as much as you can find ASAP, Pop Rocks candy, flavor irrelevant...urgent!!!" His wife got he same mail as did his folks. Now I know the Greenie Beanies are a little off kilter but what the heck are they doing now??
Back to work tonight =(
Joe S.
Joe S.
Dago, CA, US of A - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 22:11:01 (ZULU)
this page makes reference to the kids there loving it:
http://www.aaoh.org/tripandpix.htm
Hearts and minds?
(Would probably stand up to heat better than anything chocolate-based)
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 23:14:09 (ZULU)
SInce you mentioned the concern about racketeering, I'm dying to know how much the box of Kotex Maxi Pads might be worth on the black market. And does the price vary if they're marketed as "helmet liners" or "personal hygiene" items? Not that I want you to get into trouble exploring this, but I am kinda curious.
Thanks for sharing your experiences in wartime. I have no family members in the service, now or ever in my lifetime. I've really learned a lot from you,, and hope to learn a lot more about the lives of our service members, at home and in the field.
Gotta go to work. Be back Wednesday,
Sweetie
MD, USA - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 01:06:48 (ZULU)
Chip stayed at 2750fps because the load was putting 5 shots into 1/4" at 100. He figured why mess with it, and has done very well with it in BR and F class. For whatever reason, he changed the stock to a McMillan MBR and made it a switch barrel (6.5x284/6BR) Since he changed it, it hasn't been as good a gun IMHO
If I was only going to run the 142's at 2750, I'd likley pass and build a 6BR, 6BR Imp or a 6 Dasher and push 107's about 3000. It'd be about the same ballistcilly and cheaper to shoot, though the 260 is one hellava round, with more punch then the 6's have. The BR's don't make much of a tactical round, but they're hell at the range.
Nick,
Oak Ridge was a god time today. Shot irons the first 2 matches(mine, not yours;)) and went to a scope for the 3rd. FINALLY got three matches in a row with high master scores. It's not too tough with optics, but those irons are a bitch. Wish you could make it for the 17/18/19th Oct. The regional is an excellent weekend to meet and great with some heavy hitters.
Chris...
Chris
Monday, September 8, 2003, at 03:14:42 (ZULU)
Just back from a day of moving my shop into storage. Mostly done. We finish the shop and start working on the house tomorrow. We are "pre-staging" in a local storage, so we don't have to move anything but the bulky/heavy stuff next weekend (when we really move). Will also give us a buffer to sort and bring things in as needed.
My reloading gear is in storage...:-(
Luckily have goodly supply of match grade .308 loaded, so am good to go...
Joe, Had the unpleasant task of death notifications for the Marines, as a young captain. Think I'd rather see combat, myself, than face the families.
Actually had to give a flag to a five year old girl, as the "surviving" member, at a funeral. Never seen such loss in a little one's eyes.
My heart goes out to all those who have,and are,losing loved ones.
Semper Fi,
Sir Wes
Wes Howe
Blodgett, OR, USA - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 03:28:08 (ZULU)
"Sorry,my folks were over at the house late last night to see me off. I'm headed for Iraq, and next Wed. will be my last day."
We didn't even know he was in the reserves.
Didn't know it was possible for me to be humbled by a 21 year old kid.
Mark Smith
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 03:35:45 (ZULU)
"But the arms still flow into the city. Locals had told us so and the merchants from the market complained to the governor and police about it. They said that the weapons were being used to attack them and the Americans. We decided to set daylight ambushes on the Friday market to curb the flow. At 7:30 a.m. on Friday the 8th, we finally confirmed that the complaints were true. Our snipers noticed two men in a red car pull into the field surrounded by the market shops along the streets. The field is also used as a flea market where anyone can vend his wares or produce. These two men decided to vend weapons. They laid out wheat sacks filled with AK-47 magazines and grenade launcher attachments. Next, they set up various other small arms items on the now empty sacks. Finally, they pulled an AK-47 out of the trunk. The men reported it but wanted to be sure these were weapons dealers. After small devices and electronic switches for bomb making and then more AK-47s appeared, the men engaged.
The sharp crack of a sniper rifle drew little attention at first. A vendor selling crackers not ten feet from the arms traders took little notice, thinking the men were testing the weapons. But then he noticed that one man holding a weapon jerked and suddenly dropped it, his arm bleeding profusely. The driver of the red car, unaware of what was happening watched as one of two other men present handled weapons. The man turned around with an AK-47 seeking the direction of the fire. A round ripped through him. He ran forward, weapon in hand. Another round found its target. Then he slumped to the ground. The driver ran frantically to the car attempting to flee. Our sniper squad leader gauged the approximate location of the driver through the hood the car was facing away from him and fired. The round perforated the hood and then hit the man in the head. He stumbled out of the car and died. The last armed man stood little chance. A round through his leg cut him down and he dropped the weapon. The engagement was now over."
For the rest of the story go here.
http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=DefenseWatch.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=185&rnd=180.6018450785079
Goddamn snipers:-)
Gooch
Monday, September 8, 2003, at 03:37:36 (ZULU)
Had a great time hanging out with ladies and gents who hang out here and elsewhere - we stayed up late, consumed adult beverages, and swapped lies. Great match. Next year, just go! There's nowhere else I can think of where you can get in that much shooting at great facilities in a week with great people.
Mk4, my HBV goes to 2675 with 44.5 grains Varget in Lapua case, F210M primer, Sierra 175. Tracks .30-'06 BDC almost perfectly. The velocities Tony remembered were before my barrel was really broken in. I ran JBM calculations on that load for the altitude at Raton, and the elevations were dead on - 32.5 MOA at 1000.
Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 04:35:46 (ZULU)
>>Just back from Raton<<
Raton (Whittington Center) is home-away-from-home for me.
You guys are having way too much fun. Maybe see you next year. AND...if I do, we need to head to the St. James Hotel in Cimmarron for one evening of total fun and relaxtion. Maybe some of you might want to spend the night there and experience the residential ghosts...but that's another story.
BTW, I heard about some of the T-shirts some of you guys were wearing that said, "Palma Shooters....The Other White Meat" ;))) I bet that got brought some interesting responses.
--
>>my HBV goes to 2675 with 44.5 grains Varget in Lapua case, F210M primer, Sierra 175. Tracks .30-'06 BDC almost perfectly.<<
I tried the 44.5 of Varget in Winchester cases and its a No-Go in my HBV....at least for now. Accuracy is showing best results with 42.5 Varget, IMI brass, 210M, 175 SMK. My whole idea was to get a load that the 30-06 Cam would track....aaannnddd it ain't gonna workie. Instead of the 2685 fps I was shooting for, its gonna be more like 2600.
I visited with Garth Kendick of Leupold about this and he referred me to a guy in California that custom makes turrets to your load and I'm told he needs to know velocity, atmosperics, altitude, density altitude, phase of the moon, karma etc. (spin drift is already calculated ;))). Some of you guys probably already know who it is and if you want to know more about him, hit me offline. All I got is a phone number. I haven't visited with him yet. Well worth checking into.
Do any of you use the Lee Collet die for re-sizing? Or do you prefer to use the Redding/Bushing F.L or neck sizer? I'm trying a little bit of all for this rifle. The 42.5 Varget IS quite impressive.
edited: Lindy, if you're using a Redding Bushing die, which size bushing are you using?
Mk4
Texas, God Bless America, United States of America - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 05:44:49 (ZULU)
These dies haven't done me wrong yet! In fact just finished loading 100 rounds I had sitting here. Mid-night to a night worker is like broad daylight to the rest of the world! :-)
Sarge
Sarge
Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 09:47:26 (ZULU)
It is not only young officers who make those notification calls. I made some myself as a Master Sergeant. No arguement intended, lets give everyone credit for that thankless duty.
Marc Palmer
Monday, September 8, 2003, at 10:10:55 (ZULU)
Andy and I got in around 23:00 last night and I'm up already headed for the 'Y' to start the new day. Andy is still "zonked" on the couch and will start his senior year of high school later in the morning.
We had a great time and hung out with "Lindy" and some others. The shooting was world class. Andy won one of the matches in the "Tactical" class and I won one so we're about even. He made me proud as hell. He did it all with a used Remington VS in .308. My new Gardner 6.5-284 is a shooting machine and I'd pull a nine when the nut behind the trigger got loose.
This was our second year at the "Spirit of America" match and it was well worth the time and expense. I hope to go again next year.
Kevin R. Mussack
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 10:11:00 (ZULU)
Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 13:57:21 (ZULU)
As far as tranportation goes, it would be a hoot to parachute on to the Tubb Range just prior to the opening shoot. Of course, extraction would be more difficult... Click on my name for the Whittington Center web page.
Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 14:09:42 (ZULU)
All this talk of packages to the US contingent in Iraq has me thinking... my wife and I have already decided that we are sending monthly packages to a buddy of mine who is 2i/c of a rifle company in Kabul (Op Athena Roto 0). He'll make sure that the goodies get distributed.
If any of you are interested in helping make this happen in grand style, and showing our boys over in the sandbox how much we appreciate them, hit me by e-mail. Use certain.gg@forces.gc.ca as the addy.
Thanks.
Jeff
Jeff C
NB, Canada - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 14:14:29 (ZULU)
I've been lurking here for some time: learned a lot, thanks.
Spent four years at Ft Bragg in the 82d. Now I'm in a National Guard ACR here in Tennessee. We haven't been called up... yet. Don't know why, we kicked a.. er, we “highly impacted some rearward positions” at NTC last summer, but we're @ 80% strength, and I guess someone has to tend the home fires.
Hmmm... "lurker" always kind of liked that idea: I'm a 19D,and though not a sniper, we've got the same sneaking, nasty, drop-the-world-on-them-while-they’re-not-lookin’ attitudes. I just have to babysi… er, coordinate with tankers while doing the mission.
Anywzy (damn fat fingers!) ANYWAY, I'm happy to be in such good company.
Joe:
Great work you're doing. If you should run across anyone from the 1/17 Cav (82d), especially A Trp, give them my contact info, and ask what they need. I'll do whatever I can.
Bruce:
E-mail me will you: I missed info on how, where to send contributions. Let me know what you’re having trouble getting & I’ll see what can be gotten around here.
BTW
I'm one of those stinkin' SAVAGE shooters! 112BVSS in 30-06, w/SS20x42 on a Farrell base (yes, it's bedded: did it myself in about 1/2 hr. with DEVCON) sub-moa to 300(yds). Haven't tried the long range stuff yet, itching to. 125gn NBTs @ 3165fps do the groundhogs pretty well =), and VARGET rules.
Bill McCormick
Bristol, TN, USA - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 14:25:20 (ZULU)
Bruce, 1 box o'goodies arrived today--as I was heading out. 6 rolls and assorted goodies. I'm thinking the new contigent of the paras get treated nicely with this. Oh, yeah--I had to "proof" some jerky. The boys are right, it is excellent! It'll take all my discipline to hand it over...:)
Sweetie, I'm just a remf (heheh), doing what it takes.
Oh, and everyone notice how the Navy guys never heard pier queer before? I come from a sea-service clan (Marines for the rebels) and I've used that term widely since my 17th Bday (when I signed Army). But, we all use derogs' even on our own:
Crunchy: an infantryman as seen by tankers
DAT: Dumb-ass Tankers in the eyes of infantry
CDAT: computerized M60A3 drivers (super DAT, M1A2)
Zoomie: Air force or, air farce depending on space "a" seats.
Speckled Feces: Figure it out on yer own.
Ragnars: "N" is for knowledge...
LOG Toads: REMFs who croak "no" in the supply world.
Staff weenies: Any officer not in command (then it's old man no matter the age)
Shitbirds: 1SG's chosen; not the place to be
ROAD: Tired old dog, retired on active duty (as in "he is road...")
Ash and trash: All non-infantry, except DATs.
Cannon Cockers: Lanyard yankers.
Lanyard yankers: Arty, cannon fodder, etc.
Spoons: Cooks
Wrenches: self explanatory.
Snuffy: Any soldier
Jar head: my dad and those like him.
Anchor-crankers: Hmmmm.
Squids: common sailor term.
Top: a First shirt, or 1SG with whom you have years of rapport
High-speed: psyop from the 1SG--unsure if good or bad until shoe drops.
parrot fu__ers: Paratroopers
mafia: secret society allegedly of the airborne
mafioso: anyone with silver wings in legland:
Leg: earthlings (legland inhabitants)
earthlings: NAPs
NAPs: Non airborne personnel
Common air breathers: Non scuba qualified
"Them": all under your skids as you blow by at 120 kts
(as in "it must suck to be them" while you fly above the mud)
treadhead: serious legland.
Green weenie: The army's personnel system
clerks and jerks: providers of the green weenie
messdaddy: Honcho of spoons, your best friend if smart.
brown round: DI's hat and him behind his back (or pumpkin--his patch).
BAMs: Careful, it is a broad-ass marine...or so I heard..sorry ma'am.
I'll be hanging with the duece (82d) tomorrow. We're handing out some goodies....
Joe M.
Joe Mahon
Monday, September 8, 2003, at 15:44:02 (ZULU)
I was not at the WTC when the second tower collapsed...I wasn't there during the worst of it... at 4PM on that day, I was shaking so bad I was genuinely worried about pissing my own pants. I cannot even imagine what the guys that were there when it happened must have thought..
Preaching to the chior.
On the morning of September 11, 2003 - If possible, hug your family. If not, at least take a moment to reflect on all those people that never came home, leaving wives, husbands and children....forever. Thank your lucky stars that it wasn't you...now remember, there could be a next time...and do something about it. The United States of America was built by rugged, self-determinists...not conforming europhile pacifists.
medicjim
Monday, September 8, 2003, at 17:03:16 (ZULU)
We'll have a memorial here--the hug will be a raincheck. That day is never far from our minds as we go about our business. The lord may sayeth vengence is his; but retribution belongs to the US armed forces. I'm thinking we're altering an old quote: an eye for a decapitation. And just to be safe, we've increased paranoia as well. Maybe they'll poke their fool heads up and we'll introduce them to their seventy-two Virginians...heheh.
Bill, I can do that. I worked there myself once upon a time. Air troops, not the action dudes. Email me offline if you remember the A Troops' 1SG's name from 98-99 time frame. I want to look him up. He Rolled a Panamanian Checkpoint up with his Sheridan-- blazing away from the pintle mount. Real hero...the no-shit kind. He backed me up once in an ugly situation...and I owe him.
On what Jeff said:
Bruce--might be good to consider the A'stan thing. My connection to A'stan is a CI team, an ammo run, and occassional buddies headin' up. Sporadic service from my end, and if we can split this op into both theaters, we're reaching more troops! Kick the occassional box thataway. The bulk is here, but those few up there are just as engaged in the war on terror--even though the spotlight shifted to here.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon
Monday, September 8, 2003, at 18:39:03 (ZULU)
On the A'stan idea... we might be able to talk SSgt Scott into handling distro since he is in that theater. How 'bout it Adam?
Jeff
Jeff C
NB, Canada - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 20:45:30 (ZULU)
Larry and Darryl (sounds like the old Bob Newhart Show, don't it!?!?) sent a check, Doc Mac kicked in, and Tony in TX sent some in, too. $205.00 total!
Guys, don't ever apologize and say "I wish it was more."
If I could, I'd be shipping all the jerky in New Mexico to Joe, and probably getting him called on the carpet by his superiors with the conversation opening with "WTF?????"
EVERY contribution counts. Child Bride now has $523.45 in hand to go to Wally World with. That's a shitload of baby wipes (y'all like that one?) and chapstick.
I encourage you all to contact Jeff C. and support him also. I encourage you all to simply shoot some stuff straight to Joe, too.
That's going on, and those who are doing it have my thanks and admiration. You know who you are!
I am enormously proud of you all. The response has been, literally, overwhelming. (Not from the Senators and Representatives yet, though....Still hoping they'll get a C130 packed with jerky, chaw, panty liners and baby wipes headed out by the weekend, but I ain't holding my breath!)
May God bless you all, and keep our troops safe. And from me and my wife, our personal thanks to a great bunch of folks.
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 21:46:12 (ZULU)
http://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/tc_pages/tc_home.html
or click on my name
Joe, thank you for the photos.Who is handling the A'stan goodies for grunts?
Moe, The wife and i are arriving in boca this weekend and unfortunately the in-laws have produced a minute by minute itinerary which does not incude any range time. Mabye next time.
Scott S
Key West, FL, U.S.A. - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 22:18:50 (ZULU)
Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 22:34:31 (ZULU)
A cat 5 carries around a 30' surge. Does'nt take a rocket scientist to convince me to high tail it. Save a cold one for me in Kansas.
Scott S
Key West, FL, U.S.A. - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 22:49:21 (ZULU)
Had an interesting "conversation" (e-mail) with Steve's wife today. He's over in A'stan and doing as well as can be expected. At any rate, he has asked that she go to the dollar store and pick up some crayons and coloring books for the kids there. Don't know if this is a good suggestion for something to include in your package to Iraq as well...
Seriously considering buying a dehydrator. This will give us the opportunity to make our own jerky and dried fruit, both high on the list of requests for A'stan. A few of the guys i work with also make their own jerky, and I think I might be able to talk them into throwing a couple baggies worth of their private stash into the box.
"All the jerky in NM..." I love it. On the House of Reps/Senators comment... somehow, I think the boys would be pissed if I hit our Parliament to send them all the jerkies in Ottawa.
But, knowing Steve from a long time back, I'm sure going to try to get every field-grade or general officer in the Canadian contingent over there, from MGen Leslie (DComd ISAF) to the CO of the RCR contingent on down to say "WTF?" repeatedly. I have to drive right by the base post office on the way into work, so I don't even have to pay postage on this stuff... just wait until after deer season!
Jeff
Jeff C
NB, Canada - Monday, September 8, 2003, at 23:19:56 (ZULU)
Crunchie... what the apprentice techs at Brat School called us regular mature entrants ( 18+ yrs of age) who went through regular basic training(boot camp) before trade school.
Bratt School.. Army School of Electrical Engineering
Bratt... a boy soldier ( 15yrs - 17 yrs) who attended above school as an apprentice.
Slop Jockey... an Army cook.
Plank ... an artillery soldier (derived from some famouse battle during which the bodies of dead artillerymen where placed under the wheels of the arty pieces to prevent them sinking into the mud
Drop Shorts... collective name for a bunch of planks.
Shovel Recce ( or shovel recon) .. taking a dump in the boonies.
Porcelain Shit... the luxury of taking a dump on a real toilet, much looked forward to after 4 weeks in the boonies wipeing your butt on grease proof rat pack paper.
Compo... MRE's or thier predecessors
Comfy Bum, civilian toilet paper.
Sparky.. an army electrician.
Scaley.. an army signaler.
Pad, a married soldier.
Pads Brat.. child of a married soldier that subsequently followed in foot steps and joined the Army.
Bean stealer.. a married soldier.
Singley. . an unmarried soldier.
Rocking Horse Artillery... airborne Arty (7RHA)
Stumper.. a woman so ugly youd rather chew off your arm as wake her,
Grab a Grot night ( a weekly game played by single(and some married) soldiers, the winner of who could pull the ugliest woman won a case of beer.
Trotter..Gripper..Minger.. the girl who helped win the grab a grot night prized beer.
Minging..rat arsed..wasted.. Drunk
Levy night, free drinks in the mess.
Book Shee (sp) not officialy on the books, surplus.
Gat.. your rifle.
Ressy, .. gas mask
Diggers... cutlery
Gonk Bag, or Maggot.... issue sleeping bag.
Pit... your bed in Barracks.
Basher.. field shelter made with a poncho.
Dobie... your washing/laundry.
Tankee... Tank Regt or Cav troops.
Jocks.. private soldiers in the Highland Division.
Toms.. private soldiers in the rest of the army.
Trogs,.. Royal Corps of Transport troops, (drivers)
Split Arse.. female soldier.
Squat to piss.. female soldier.
Honking.. ugly
P Coy... all arms airborn course.
Lance Jack.. Lance Corporal.
Full Screw.. Corporal.
Bone Dome.. kevlar helmet
Crab Air.. the Royal Air Force.
Matlo's (sp) The Royal Navy.
Squaddy.. a soldier.
Bods..Mucker.. Oppo, fellow soldiers or mates.
Pebble Dash.. what you to to the toilet when you have the squirts.
Raz Man.. the Regimental Sergeant Major.
Rodney... a young officer.
A Yes Man.. an officer or senior NCO who would sacrifice his troops well bieng in order to further his own career.
Gimpy... General purpose machine gun.
Gopping.. horrible
Stag.. Guard Duty
Batus Banger.. car used as cheap transport and sold on at the end of a tour at the Brit training facility BATUS (nr Med Hat Alberta)
Alberta Bumb. .. the Alberta specific shape of the Canadian ladies rear end.
damn i could write a list a mile long.
Pete
Peter Lincoln
D - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 00:56:35 (ZULU)
If 'yote-Bait runs out of beer in Kansas just make a right turn and head on over to Missouri. There's always plenty of liquid libations around here.
Doc
Doc Holloway
The balmy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 01:46:22 (ZULU)
About the SC list: I love this group of folks. Many have never met, but all would give their all for each other, no doubt.
This list is "alive". Folks caring and sharing values, support, techniques, and occasionally, a little bit about shooting. Am pleased to see our support for those "over there", as many of us once were, and some still are...
We are what America is all about.
Joe, hope we meet one of these days. Would like to buy you and others on this list a cold one. Probably, we could all tell some great anecdotes about our service days. I have fond memories and occasionally like to share them. A few horror stories, too. Not nearly as much fun to talk about.
Just finished moving the shop and part of our household effects today. I'm beat, but feel good. Our actual move takes place next weekend. Wife is excited, as she gets a new "nest" to decorate. Me?
I've got to figure how to get all my shop and reloading gear into a standard two car garage...Pooh!
Deer season in about three weeks! Need to get ammo loaded and sight in my .35 Whelan Imp. Then will be ready for elk and deer.
My .284 will be done later this year, it looks like. Still have to have the stock finished and engraving completed. Can't wait. Was promised for this season, but things happen. May still get it stocked, in the white, if I want to use it. Custom guns...gotta love them AND have patience.
My best to all...
Semper Fi,
Sir Wes
Wes Howe
Blodgett, OR, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 02:33:52 (ZULU)
One of you moderators might want to remove it for him.....
Out here
Gooch
Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 02:55:38 (ZULU)
Damn straight, Jim.
My second son just earned his Firefighter Certification. He's got one more thing to do and then he goes full time with a Department. I'm extremely proud of him.
--
Lindy,
No need to leave Texas. Just come up my way and we'll ride together to Badlands next week ;))))) BTW, I spent many a night in those cabins at Raton. Had many a meal cooked (including lots of green chile stew ;))in a Dutch oven over a open fire in the Primitive campground @ Whittington. There's just something about that place.
--
Sarge,
The Lee Collet dies are something new to me. Wouldn't have even known about that if it wasn't for Sweetie's husband. He sent me a set in the mail to try out. Pretty neat.
Mk4
Texas, God Bless America, United States of America - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 03:44:57 (ZULU)
Oh, the new Kimber shoots great for a 9mm. Smallest 5 shot group was 2 1/2" at 25 yrds. Load developement may help, we will see. The biggest groups still held the 10 ring of a Leupold rifle target for all but one shot. (Shot only a total of 5 groups)
Dirty Steve, Out
Steve Dickerson
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 04:06:59 (ZULU)
Other camps are not so fortunate. At KMNB, for example, the German PX will NOT sell ANYTHING to Americans, Brits, or Canadiens. What kind of @%$# is that!! There is nothing they can do except be at the mercy of the Europeans. The airport or HQ ISAF has no PX either. The Italians have one but are rather limited on their supplies and are rather pricey. Only accept Euros too.
Found out last month I made the SFC list. First look in the secondary zone. Just waiting for my number to get picked.
Take care all.
Adam
Adam G. Scott
Kabul, A'stan - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 05:30:00 (ZULU)
There are many people out there that are not as charitable as we might think. Due to the open nature of all of our communications on the Internet we need to keep that reality in mind. EVERYTHING we post is spooled somewhere, and subject to inspection by all different types at any time. I can only hope that the good guys notice our camaraderie and concern for our folks in harms way and that this knowledge might assist them with their mission where ever that might be!
Bruce & Child bride, Thank you very much for the kind thank you card! Not only have you taken on a very honorable side business, but also you are sending out heartfelt thank you cards with personal touches! I have shared this endeavor with my painfully liberal wife, and she was actually overly supportive. (Our political and shooting philosophical differences have caused me to be very comfortable with the couch in the living room!)
Thank you, Bruce, Joe, SSG Scott, and all the others that are making it just a little bit more comfortable for the folks over there!
Michael
USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 06:18:17 (ZULU)
Scott, the invitation is open, just let me know.
In-laws!!!!!!!!! $%#@)&&^%%^&
Moe
Moe Mensale
Boca Raton, FL, US of A - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 12:53:10 (ZULU)
I also got one of those "thank you" cards from Bruce's wife, which was gracious but unnecessary - I should be sending her one for helping Bruce to acquire the stuff and get it shipped.
Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 13:31:44 (ZULU)
Adam - If this remains true, it would only require one TV news report reaching the States to resolve said problem. Please collect facts and contact points, email me and I will put the New York City media on the case. I have some contacts I made almost exactly two years ago that would be interested in a story like this.
medicjim
Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 15:45:54 (ZULU)
Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 16:00:37 (ZULU)
Rant follows. Scroll past if not interested.
I see that we are now requesting that the UN step up to the plate in the reconstruction of Iraq, and that certain nations are reluctant to participate unless given more control, these nations being conspicuously absent when American and British blood was (and is)being shed to liberate that nation, and secure the safety of the free world.
F**k 'em. The US needs to tell them, and every member of the UN, that it's simple......you participate, or every nickel of aid to your country goes away. And then enforce it.
Linda Gronlund's (Flt. 93) ashes were spread over Sag Harbor Bay in a small and private ceremony on 09 August 2003. She was a good friend of mine and a true hero.
When American taxpayers are privately contributing their hard-earned money to send baby wipes and jerky to our troops, there is something very, very wrong about US taxpayer dollars going to the Palestinian Authority and other sponsors of terrorism. The vision of Palestinians dancing in the streets and passing out candy in celebration of the attacks on 11 September, while Linda's body was still unrecovered in a Pennsylvania field, is not one that I will soon forget.
The European Bloc that wants to dictate US Foreign Policy without having done anything to stop terrorism can simply kiss my rebel d**k.
If this gets edited, so be it. But I'm pissed.
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 16:38:52 (ZULU)
Doesn't Iraq have one of the world's largest reserves of oil beneath its territory?
Didn't we restrain ourselves from destroying necessary infrastructure during our invasion?
Why can't we just sell the oil and use that cash to slap a new coat of paint on the place?
Intellectually I know that for the long term solution we need to do some "nation building" and thereby win the hearts and minds of the people of Iraq. However....there is a part of me that is rather barbaric and wants to go "medieval" on ‘em.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 16:54:18 (ZULU)
I have to invoke Supernaw's Law: The only answer to any non-trivial question is, "It depends."
Iraq does have lots of oil. But for years, Iraq neglected the infrastructure needed to extract and ship it, and large amounts of capital investment will be required to update that infrastructure. The answer to the question of who will supply that capital is currently complicated by the issue of who actually owns that oil - and if the answer is the people of Iraq, they haven't got that capital. In addition, they are not the only supplier, and there is a limited amount which can be sold on the world market without depressing the price.
In addition, Iraq neglected lots of other parts of their infrastructure, like roads, electrical power, and water. The sales of oil on the open market cannot realistically supply all of the funds necessary to bring Iraq up to modern standards in anything like a reasonable amount of time - if ever. I'm not sure why the current presumption has arisen that, having conquered people who were annoying us, we are now under the obligation to make them a prosperous, first-world nation, and I do not accept that we have such an obligation.
The Arab middle east, even including oil, has about the GDP of Finland. Their culture is stuck in the seventh century. They cannot compete in the modern world. The interested reader is referred to _The Closed Circle: An Interpretation of the Arabs_ by David Pryce-Jones. It is doubtful that a change in that culture can be forced upon them in the short term, and whether they will choose to change that culture in the long term is an issue that few alive today will know the answer to. Those are the perhaps-depressing facts, as I see them, facts that many appear to be unwilling to face, just as many of those same folks refuse to face the possibility that the Palestinian-Israeli "peace process" is no such thing.
"Faced with the need to either change or prove that there is no need to do so, most of us get busy on the proof." -- John Kenneth Galbraith
Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 17:27:53 (ZULU)
I offer this compromise to quell the concerns of both Bruce and Kevin.
1- The Americans acknowledge the superiority of old Europe when it comes to dealing with Muslim extremists. We will therefore cede complete control of the regions populated with hateful, lazy, distrusting shit for brain fanatics to their soon to be European masters. No doubt, the terrorists will quickly be pacified by relentless condescension and complaining, coupled with indignant stares from fat arrogant men with their noses held high.
2- The Americans will fully accept the responsibility of returning the oil infrastructure back to it's pre-war glory. Americans will build a new pipeline along the narrow corridor along the Iran border....linking the rich wells in the north to those in the south... refinery facilities will also be rebuilt in this corridor. America will need to maintain a very large, land mobile force in this area, capable of reacting to even the largest of terrorist attacks...or perhaps, in the future, should the need arise to stop incursions across the Iran border. Unfortunately, with the oil pipeline established to the south, our old buddies the Turks will be left high and dry....but, such is life.
Lastly...we will speak loudly, letting the 'holy warriors' crossing into Iraq from Syria know that although there is no longer a strong US military presence in place to stop them from infiltrating the old Europe occupied zone, the decisive military arm of the UN stands poised to cast further threats should the need arise. <g>
medicjim
Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 17:38:16 (ZULU)
Please note that with the exception of the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Norway, and of course the UK, support from Europe is coming from the EASTERN European (all formerly behind the Iron Curtain) countries of Ukraine, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Romania, and Slovakia. Ya think the newly freed Eastern Europeans have a better idea than "Old Europe" on what it feels like to be oppressed?
Don
Don K.
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 18:28:13 (ZULU)
"Ya think the newly freed Eastern Europeans have a better idea than "Old Europe" on what it feels like to be oppressed?"
Maybe, but they also need the cash.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 18:51:31 (ZULU)
any suggestions??
Scott S
Key West, FL, U.S.A. - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 19:51:09 (ZULU)
The slight was unintentional. I knew we have SFC (E7) and above out there. I just forgot while engaging my keyboard with two fingers and a thumb. I called my hero, J. Steen for advice (which was a vague you'll know what to say when you see her) and he is of course an NCO. By gawd, he has never let me forget that fact...
Sweetie: Box two is in (samller of the two) and the big one is in Camp Virginia forming the nucleus of that library for troops. Answers to your questions: Baked goods do okay--a bit dry on arrival but edible...however, I recommend against. I may not be there to vouch for ya, and if no one knows you--they may be reluctant to eat home baked stuff. (Bruce's jerky is an exception because the SF guys come to me and I give it to them directly!) I could do the same for you, but jerky lasts and these guys are infrequent visitors in the theater rear. (Lucky dawgs). The Blackmarket for feminine hygiene products (guys, note the use of PC terms here)--Ma'am, I cannot begin to figure out how to ask those kinds of questions of those kinds of soldiers! I'm going to have to disappoint your curiosity on this topic. I mean, I'm still getting used to reactions to the oakleaf when I chew a little butt here and there--the rank seems to amplify the fearfactor (I gotta get used to that). Imagine a female trooper standing there as I ask that question! On the other hand, the PX is pushing these items much better lately--and the MEDDAC folks back this up. It was one of those NSC issues at one point.
Someone help me out--is there anyway to broach that subject with the ladies in uniform? Ha! Even if there is, I'm too old fashioned to try!
Joe M.
Joe Mahon
Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 20:12:09 (ZULU)
"Maybe, but they also need the cash"
LOL, ya don't think they take Euro's? Or, maybe it's that they can't picture the Franks and Goths defending their new found freedom.
Don
Don K.
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 20:16:23 (ZULU)
First, our troops are acquitting themselves well. They need to be there to prevent an even worse government than Hussein's from forming, and they are getting killed doing it. It is an ugly reality. We owe it to them, and the dead, American and Iraqi both, to make sure that this is not in vain.
Iraq, however, looks like a quagmire to me. Islam is based on 7th century Arab reality and has not advanced since then. That lifestyle and culture IS the religion. We can lead that particular horse to water all we like, we can't make it drink. We can't even make it pay attention, wake up and smell the coffee.
We are dealing with a disorganized population some of which are old Ba'ath loyalists, others of which are fundamentalists and still others of which don't much care. We are also dealing with Bagdad, a place that has not changed much for the last 9000 years; we are exactly in the heart of ancient Sumeria, the cradle of all Western Civilization, the place that was the first in the world to invent money, the wheel and so on. It went to a certain level of technology, and then stopped.
We are dealing with a people who have long memories, who tell you that this spot is where Alexander the Great camped in 333 BC as though it was yesterday. What we do there will be long remarked, the bad as well as the good. We have American troops with American values and without any training in what to expect of the locals, trying to make life better - based on strictly American values. Mostly, we are dealing with an area of the world in which religion is paramount, very unlike our secular society. If someone tried to outlaw the Koran in school there, he'd be shot in a heartbeat. The Middle East, Sumeria in particular, has always been theocratic. Even Hussein, who was a stout atheist, didn't try to meddle in certain ways despite being an absolute dictator.
I believe, based on this, that it is best that we find someone who can meet us halfway in terms of human rights and reasonable domestic and foreign policy, and get out. The Iraqis will never like us. They are really tired of being invaded; for them this is just another chapter in 9000 years of unwanted foreigners coming in. I believe that they would rather have a hated Iraqi dictator who is Iraqi than a benevolent foreign government.
That is my take on it.
I disbelieved in the Iraqi mission from the first based on all of this. Bush did not have an exit strategy; he moved too quickly for that. I fear that many more Americans will die there and that the improvements we do manage to leave behind will be short lived. It's a whole different civilization there than what we know at home and is about as alien to us as it can get.
I believe we should set up a provisional government ala the Brits and then install suitable Iraqis and get out as quickly as possible once we're sure that these Iraqis can hold things together after we get our troops out of harm's way. It only takes one wild-eyed fanatic to kill an American. And the Iraqis have a lot of experience at it.
We'd like a more liberal government in Iraq than Hussein's was, but we cannot be sure that such a government can survive.
As for our people in the military, don't let anyone see your back. Most of the Iraqis are no more murderers than most Americans are. But there are always the nuts....
Frank
CA, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 20:56:16 (ZULU)
Fred Hartman
fred hartman
toledo, ohio, usa - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 21:02:05 (ZULU)
Joe, too easy! :-) Find that E-7, E-8 Female medic and ASK! I've known my fair share of the lady medics during the years, Hell wife #1 was one, and tell you what some of them will make a grizzeled old drill sergeant turn red in the face when she needs too! As a last resort, a lady MD would do, at least that would help with the "rank" thing!
Sarge
Sarge
Area 51, NM, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 21:40:26 (ZULU)
If you are looking at the same Zeiss Jenna Binoculars that I have, the binoculars were imported into the United States a few years ago by a company called Deutche Optics (American company in California). They sold them at the time for $500.00. They do not carry the tritium illuminated ones in their catalog any more, due to Federal Government restrictions.
The few Deutche Optics are selling now, are made from left over components and I believe are selling for $600 to $700.00 range.
When I called for information about mine, they offered to buy them at more than their original selling price. I kept them.
As to what the binoculars would be worth now is probably up to the buyer.
Lurking on the Roster and enjoying every word of it.
Post Script: I have submerged these binoculars in creek water to wash them off, with no problem. The only time they fog is on the objective (eyepieces) when they were cold and used them or took them indoors. There has been no internal fogging of these binoculars in the 10 years that I have had them.
radio1
Gettysburg/Langhorne, Pennsylvania, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 22:33:33 (ZULU)
Child Bride and I just returned from the Smoke Shop on the Rez (6 more rolls of chaw) and Wally World, where she was grinnin' like a mule eatin' briars as she bought Goodies. Going through checkout was a hoot, too, where the gal remarked on the selection of goods in our cart. We told her what it was for, and she grinned, too.....she did four years in the USN and is a Desert Storm vet. She said to tell all of you, "God Bless You!"
Previous balance: $518.45
Today's purchases: $485.07
Remaining Balance: $33.38
Got a ton of stuff to pack up tonight. One small box will go to a platoon of Marines on the USS Iwo Jima. Another small box goes to a PFC at the request of a contributor. Rest goes to Joe. And Joe, your box has some chips and dip for you and your guys (snag a bag of jerky, too, just to make sure it didn't go bad in transit). Thank you for the wonderful job that you're doing. Please tell your men that Child Bride and I owe you a steak!
Should be receiving a massive spool of 550 cord this week, from a very generous donor. I'll turn it around ASAP.
Nothing from our members of Congress, yet.....
You folks are the best. I was already proud of my country. Now I am only more so.
Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 23:09:43 (ZULU)
Witless contradictory vacilation turns my stomach.
Mark Smith
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 23:45:28 (ZULU)
I have a friend who is a cop sniper. He killed a woman two years ago that pointed a gun at his teammates. He was cleared of the shoot and wrote a book about it. Apparently, he pissed some people off by writing it (embarrassed them).
He recently returned from active duty as an Armored Cav scout and was put on admin leave his first day back at the PD. He was basically forced to quit his job.
"Thanks for saving your buddies. Oh, and thanks for serving your country. Oh, and by the way ... see ya"
He just sold his house and is looking into a full time slot in the US Army at 40 years of age. HOOAH!
He is good people, has a family and is my friend.
He gets his first royalty check in about a month.
I would consider it a personal favor to me if you guys bought a copy of his book and passed the word.
It is a page turner.
"After the Echo"
Available through Calibre Press 1-800-323-0037 or Varro Press 1-800-732-3659.
You won't regret it.
brian k. sain
Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 23:55:27 (ZULU)
Mark Smith
LakeCormorant, MS, - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 00:05:41 (ZULU)
Have any of you guys ever owned a BSA CF2 centre fire rifle? I know they where sold in the USA in the 70's and 80's. the 7mm rem mag i bought in the UK is one, i have discovered that the thing takes exactly the same scope bases as the Remington 700, which is a big plus, the action is however very scimilar to the Winchester M70,flat bottom, etc now i would like to find out if the action will fit in a win 70 stock like a drop in or if i will have to modify the stock much,(might be better of playing with a Mauser 98 stock? its got a nice walnut number with a rose wood tip but i want to get it into something more comfortable, a Hogue would be nice, any ideas guys? i'm thinking of turning it into a little project.. thanks Pete.
edited to reply to Brian.
Brian, how do i get a copy over here? and
""Thanks for saving your buddies. Oh, and thanks for serving your country. Oh, and by the way, see ya" !@#$%^&*"
thats the standard shit you get after serving in any branch of the British Forces, it tastes bitter and is wrong.
Peter Lincoln
D - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 00:08:06 (ZULU)
http://www.varropress.com/showbook.cfm?item_no=524-100&userid=29945560
Mark Smith
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 00:28:40 (ZULU)
The order has been placed with Varro Press. Calibre Press doesn't deal with low-life non-LE civilians. Sure hope your buddy is doing O.K. Please tell him a cantankerous old ex-Navy puke appreciates what he did for his country.
Doc
Doc Holloway
The balmy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 01:02:12 (ZULU)
PETE: I'll see that you get one across the pond somehow.
He and I are rooming together in about a week at a cop shoot in Mass. Stay tuned ...
brian k. sain
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 01:21:11 (ZULU)
You'll see/speak with RC before I do. Thank him for me for doing the job.
Book order goes in in the morning.
Mike in Texas
Granbury, Texas, - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 01:21:49 (ZULU)
For us damn foreigners, what is a "roll of chaw"?
Is it food? Cleaning flannelette for firearms?
Cheers
Damn Foreigner.
Darryl
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 01:26:39 (ZULU)
Darryl, chewing tobacco often comes in round tins three or four inches in diameter and a fraction of an inch thick, which appear to be sized so afficionados can carry them in a pocket, often a rear bluejean pocket. Large quantities of those tins may be purchased in bulk in a cylindrical package referred to as "a roll".
Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 01:39:09 (ZULU)
Regarding Iraq, exactly why is the US in there? As an ex-serviceman I have sympathy for the position of the US servicemen in Iraq, they are there on orders.
An earlier poster mentioned the Iraqi oil catchment. Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world. Note that Bush has given Rumsfelds oil industry cohorts contracts which were let without open tender to extract and market Iraqi oil. Make no mistake, New Imperialism is here. The US will be in Iraq in 2010. Why? I would wager my left nut that the US will not let go of its new found life blood, it simply cannot afford to do so. Bush junior has stated that "...the American way of life is not up for negotiation... " in reference to a future energy crisis.
The ongoing military prexence in Iraq will be required to ensure the security of US control over the oil. Can't have a "New American Century" as per Rumsfeld if Americas petrol tank runs dry.
The second presence will be in Afghanistan. The US must control the oil and gas flow from the Caspian. It can be piped through regions Russians control, but south through a stable and supportive Afghanistan is cheaper and a strategical imperative for US energy policy.
Note that about 2008, oil production will peak. After this point is reached strategic domination of major oil supplies will determine global power-sharing.
The NYC tower event brought all this activity forward. A weakened Russia cannot compete with the US if the US can successfully tame Afghanistan. No disrespect to the soldiers up there, including my own, but if you read Rudyard Kipling it is insightful as to how reasonable and trustworthy are the many tribes in that region.
Afghanistan will not be Iraq.
The US military is currently suffering, low morale is reported in Iraq and a strong reliance on reserve troops indicates that the regular military is over-committed.
Just to add another variable, Taiwan has just changed its passport to "Taiwan" from the "Republic of China". The Communist Chinese have threatened invasion should Taiwan make permanent moves to sovereign status. Given the US military is stretched at this point, I suspect Chinese planners are looking at the timing of another 're-unification'.
So the "Great Game" continues, just as in Kiplings time when the British East India company and army secured foreign resources for British companies, America has engaged the world in a challenge for global resource domination.
As ever with me, support the uniforms but screw the politicians and business elite.
(Incase anyone takes it too hard and as "anti-Americanism", I consider myself objective. I too have contributed to Bruces call for support to send supplies to Iraq, and these aren't even my troops.)
Regards
Darryl
darryl
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 02:26:41 (ZULU)
Probably just an oversight. "Echo" just hit the presses a couple months ago ... word ain't out yet.
Ain't gonna be that way long though ... a good, hard look inside this thing we call a "job".
BRIAN K. SAIN
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 02:31:46 (ZULU)
Oh yes, and "objectivity" is by it's very nature best judged in one's self by others.....How very "British" of you to think otherwise.....
Mark Smith
LakeCormorant, MS, - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 02:57:19 (ZULU)
Book on order from Varro Press. No problems! Thanks for the tip.
edit: Mark S.
Maybe in 2005 we can sell Darryl his oil instead o' the frenchies! :)
John
Acehigh
B'ton, IN, USA - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 03:02:52 (ZULU)
Sounds like a graduate of public schools.
CDC'
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 03:03:11 (ZULU)
Who got kicked where? I'm Australian. I don't recall us getting kicked out of anywhere. Considering our military is tiny, I doubt there's much appetite for imperialistic adventures, even if the political will existed.
As for oil, we are have our own.
cheers
Darryl
Darryl
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 03:07:28 (ZULU)
Mark Smith
LakeCormorant, MS, - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 03:14:16 (ZULU)
I'm looking for a good Level for my scope to help prevent cant. What companies make good levels for scopes in matte finish? Also, which is considered better to use, a level that is high on the scope or a low profile level? ( or this more of a personal preference ) John A., I think you know why I'm asking this question......:) !
Any help would be appreciated!!! :)
Thanks,
BearMan
BearMan
Indy, Indiana, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 03:32:04 (ZULU)
Tony Burkes
Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, USA - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 03:38:00 (ZULU)
It certainly isn't about oil. Oil is fungible, and a market commodity. The people who have it HAVE to sell it - at least in the middle east they have essentially nothing else of value. I'd agree that we probably will have forces in Iraq in 2010.
As for the notion that the U.S. must control the flow of oil through military force in the mideast, I most heartily disagree, for reasons I already mentioned. Oil production will not decline starting anytime soon, though the price may increase. I was in the "all bidness" until I retired, and most people don't understand that the figure of what is referred to as "proven reserves" is price-dependent, i.e., it's the amount of oil which is economically producible _at the current price_. As the price goes up, so does the amount of "proven reserves". There is a lot of oil locked up in shale in both Canada and the U.S., for example. The figure for years of "proven reserves" at then-current comsumption rates has been essentially constant or increasing for about a hundred years.
And, as the price of oil goes up, a couple of things will happen. Alternatives will become economically feasible - you can make oil through biological processes - and the use of petroleum will become increasingly restricted to transportation applications until alternatives for that become economic. Given space-based solar-power systems, which are economically viable now if you eliminate NASA from the space-lift business, you can make hydrogen, for example - and there is no shortage of water.
Petroleum is just one form of energy storage. There is no energy shortage, and it doesn't drive world politics.
Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 03:39:30 (ZULU)
you don't need to have sympathy for the guys on the ground in iraq or A-stan, they are all volunteers, they new when they signed on the line and swore the oath that they were maybe one day going to be put in harms way, sure been told your there for 6 months and then finding out its gonna be 12 is a bitch, but soldiering is and always has been a bitch of a job, anyone who don't like it can sign off and leave. Its a case of on the bus off the bus and the guys will just have to take the rough with the smooth,and most of them will and will do it with pride, the ones that can't or wont are in the wrong job.and as far as the military bieng over stretched, well yep, and they have been for years due to lack of proper investment in the right areas by cost cutting left wing governments and pc correctness of right wing goverments trying not to upset any one by giving the guys in green what they need to do the job correctly, well hell if it comes to it we can bring back the draft, i"m for that anyway, teach some of these cheeky little teenage shits some manners, especialy some of these european ones,and if some of these damn socialistic pascifist ungratefull ero assholes would jump on the band waggon and remember who gave them freedom and rebuilt thier countries after WW2 and send some troops to help out them some of our boys who have done the hard work could maybe get some R n R, the anti war euros don't want to get thier hands dirty but want to be in on the rebuild contracts later, well they have to earn it and its high bloody time they started on that. None of this was ever about grabbing the oil you know, i think the oil industry there should be brought into the 21st century and the iraqi's can start earning money to pay us all back for thier new found freedom,thier then modernised infrastructure and all our hard work getting thier country from the 7th to the 21st century, and we do't let go of the place till the debts are settled, but that wouldn't be politicaly correct now would it.
I do agree with your idea of screw the politicians all are corrupt to some extent, we have to many and they are a burden, and all top politicians are business men too. I don't view Mr Bush as a politician, he is a businessman and a leader, he is not a great public speaker or a spin merchant, i hope he proves to be worthy of the title President and i figure he is doing ok up to now, unlike that scumbag clinton, time will tell. Blair is a shit bag and needs to go thats a fact and has been for ages.
anyway, some questions for you all:
If you mated a shitsu with a bull dog would the it be called a bullshit?
Why do they call it an asteroid when its out side the hemisphere but callit a heamorrid when its inside your ass?
man i need a coffee.. pete
Peter Lincoln
D - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 04:11:23 (ZULU)
Thankyou for your question regarding my nationality. You asked if I was French or German, apparently not reading my post stating I am Australian. Rather touchy aren't we? Sort of reminds of the US marine that told me I spoke good English for an Australian, and that he thought Australia was a little island like Diego Garcia.
But then I guess he had a good education. I was brought up on a farm in dirt poor Oz, just an hour ride to the local government school (couldn't afford private school, if thats what an earlier poster was referring to). I didn't get great marks, but I got into the military, where I met heaps of yank servicemen. With regard to my earlier post, it was a reflection of these meetings and friendships struck that I donated to Bruce Robinsons support effort.
You apparently have reacted on an emotional level, but its ok with me.
My comments are mine and I don't expect you to agree. Some constructive commentry would have been welcome,as per the post from Lindy.
Given that this site reflects a more mature following I had thought it would be interesting to exchange views. I am sure if you and similar posters want to dump ingenious commentary, you can post me off-site.
You know its funny that our army is out there on the ground with the US military, yet anyone questioning the public theme is attacked and mocked by people like yourself. Perhaps if you read your own media, and listened to broadcasts of your own Congressmen, you too might wonder about the obvious anomilies between popular media and government activity.
Regards
Darryl
darryl
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 04:50:08 (ZULU)
When "After the Echo" was released I bought 10 copies & handed them out to "key" personnel at work. Tac Commander quickly made it mandatory reading for ALL our Tac guys, not just the Snipers I primarily got it for. Amazingly, even the other team leaders appreciated it. Absolute eye opening info. Much food for thought. Sure makes it a bitter pill to swallow now that budget constraints cause training to be the first and heaviest cuts. Very much like what Paul R. went through nearby.(another LE sniper who did his job & got zero in-house support)
Truly a reality check into the crap one goes through on a "good" shoot. Clinton-esque. Ashame.
Very good read.
Deputy Doug
Doug Bourdo
K Town, WI, USA - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 05:24:30 (ZULU)
Sorry,
Thanks,
BearMan
BearMan
Indy, Indiana, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 05:27:33 (ZULU)
What branch of the Military were/are you in? my cousin spent 2 years in SE Asia with the Aussie SAS, he set of in the Royal Aussie Regt, his Dad was a Green Howard and helped kick the japs out of several places they shouldn't have been.
Pete
Peter Lincoln
D - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 05:43:33 (ZULU)
Ok, no harm done, thanks. I guess my belief is that if blood needs to be shed, do it for the right reasons and be open about it. A few things about Iraq smell. The yanks I worked with were marines and good blokes. I don't know what USMC presence there is in Iraq but I especially hope those guys are secure. Goes for the others as well.
Methinks Iraq is just beginning, we have SASR in A'Ghan as well, word is things are not cooling down. This situation needs thought as it does have the potential to become a military quagmire in both places.
When Australia has no geo-political interest in such places, and I see big business move in, I get suspicious. Maybe, as Lindy has said, I am wrong. In this case if I am wrong, I will be happy.
3 years Army grunt.
6 years Air Force grunt (better equipment and more intensive training)
Good luck to ya.
Regards
Darryl
Darryl
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 05:59:51 (ZULU)
darryl
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 07:59:12 (ZULU)
On the whole, as we provide our troops with the little things we all have taken for granted, we need to look at the big picture before we cast any stones. Theater level support is limited to available strat resources and sealift. Needs are assessed and prioritized, and Tobacco and candy, along with wet wipes and mail--these take a back seat to things like ammo and grease. As stuff flows to each point--more priorites are applied. The ammo may get bumped for water if an emergency arises, etc.
We have gutted ourselves in the peace dividend game. Small steps were taken to address it, but we can only do so much. Contracting is seen as the wave of the future. Heheh. Until they take fire, it seemed like a good idea. We just lost a large chunk of a contracted maintenance after a mortar attack. Contractors (Sorry Dannyboy) work for a paycheck. I work for the honor of my soldiers and my country. I do not like mortar attacks, but I kinda see it as a possible condition for my current employment. Contracted employees see it quite differently, as evidenced by the quittings up north. No injuries, just "the hell with this shit...." and off they went.
Rummy is convinced that contracts are the solution, and I am convinced he's fooling himself. There is no substitute for a soldier in a warzone, no matter how much money you offer. It is not a practical thing; it is esoteric. How do you contract "duty, honor, country" ("those three hollowed words reverently dictate what we ought to be,..." go Doug!) and what incentive is there for civilians to take fire? That is the current idea being kicked around as they consider cutting the army even more. Ahhh, what the hell. Nobody ever asked my opinion.
The few of us here in uniform are doing whatever it takes to move shit to our troops. It is frustrating at times, but each small success has it own reward. I actually have people everyday stop by to say thanks (for doing my job half assed). Sometimes just for getting water to them in an emergency (zero, nada). Thanking me for that? Sad...but do not blame the guys here for the mess of the politicians. Look back a few years at some of the decisions. It started before Guilf 1 with the dumb ass peace dividend BS. Since then, we've exponetially increased optempo while always drawing down our endstregths.
We're playing the hand we are dealt--and you guys (and gal) are backfilling where we fell short with the care packages. Yeah, complaints and finger pointing--but do you really believe there is anyone over HERE in uniform saying, "I think I will fuck up support today..." No, they are trying hard with whatever they are limitations dealt with. It overwhelms some, and they are truly useless, others rise to the occassion and pull twenty hour days and cross coordinate their asses off to get shit where it needs to be. Too few though, alot give up and withdraw into their narrowly defined "lane." Only there ain't no one to replace them with--we're all tasked out. So we just let them do their little thing while a few of us continue to grind away. There is no blame here, and they do contribute. They're just not the sharpest pencil in our box--tis all.
And contracting it out is just dumb when there is shooting going on. That won't work--and I am proven correct each time we have contact. It has only just begun.
I guess I'm total REMF now; defending them like this.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 11:46:28 (ZULU)
Guys and Sweetie,
I have a sense of why my CINC (POTUS) put us here, and I agree; mainly because I feel (felt for years after much thought) exactly the same way:
Here is why I went out of my way to get my ass here, in spite of all the good reasons I could have pulled for not coming here. I do not want my son to know war, not a single one, not for any damned reason. I do not want my daughters to evacuate their school for a threat or actual suicide bombing, never! I do now want my wife responding to a single incident involving the word Islam. Nope. I believe that the threat, as much as anyone has a crystal ball, is clearly and accurately assessed by a president with the balls to do something about it. And since I wanted to do this for most of my 22 years, the little things like cancer in my daughter or retirement eligibility would not stand in my way one last time. I take what I do very seriously. And as I've said here before, terrorism should have been a "war" after Lebanon, after Lockerbie (I still pray for your widow and children, CPT Joe Curry--rest in peace brother...) after the Embassy bombs, after the Cole. Well, it took an attack on our shores, massive and devastating through our own inaction and the emboldened bastards who saw weakness, for us to take the logical action. IMHO, we either fight them here, or we will surely fight them in our streets. As a father, I made my choice last year.
Darryl, special for you:
Quagmire? So was fucking Europe after WWII. Yeah, casualties suck. How many did you know? I've said, "holy shit, not him..." once this week upon learning of a death. I've said that two weeks ago, and will again soon. So bite me with your opinion. I'm glad to be here, and I will stay as long as I am needed. I don't want you or your imperialistic fantasies anywhere near me. I'll kick yer ass for the sheer entertainment of it, so stay home and whine about the world while we do something about it. My son is not going to face this shit, and if that means I stay for 30, so be it. Terrorism and those who support it are coming out, and we are killing them. And we are doing it where they live, not the other way around. Meaning my wife (the cop) can focus on all the other dangerous stuff. Meaning my daughters can go to school and not worry about the bearded dude with a bomb strapped on his ass. Meaning, the world might just be a better place in the end. That, you fucking idiot, is why I am here. And probably why you are there talking shit. When it is time to cut bait, the cowards among us always show their colors by arguing the "point" of the danger in the first place, as you are now attempting. Read some of T.R.'s speaches about "those who do" for more on this topic. New imperialism? Yeah, we have a track record of that. Tell me asshole, why aren't the French our 51st state instead of the pain in the ass they are? History seems to be your strong suit. The US is "SO" into taking territory lately. And, dipshit, the Stan is progressing well beyond our expectations. We've only just begun in Iraq. And thank you for the revelations about cultural differences. My god, how did we miss that one?!!! No shit? They are different?
Someone please tell this crumb what and who the 5th SF group is what maybe a bit about their operations.
And, I still get a christmas card from a Kurd family every year from another little quagmire. In closing, fuck you.
Signed,
A US Soldier in OIF, to you--don't even address me otherwise.
Sorry Sarge. You can delete my foul mouthed rant after ol' butthead gets to it. I allowed the profanity for proper emphasis. I apologize to my friends here--it is out of character (usually).
Joe M.
Joe Mahon
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 12:42:34 (ZULU)
I for one think your post should not be edited, I THINK IT SHOULD BE HIGHLIGHTED AND POSTED FOR ALL TO SEE!
All I can say is Amen brother,
drmarc
Marc
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 13:10:47 (ZULU)
HA! That's my boy.
brian k. sain
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 13:38:31 (ZULU)
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....and thanks for bringing up TR.
--
Teddy Roosevelt:
"Far better it is to dare mighty things than to take rank with those poor timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt 1899
Mk4
Texas, God Bless America, United States of America - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 13:46:01 (ZULU)
I'll will now say a prayer for you and the others like you that are doing what needs to be done to provide safety and freedom throughout the world from those that want nothing better than to harm us......
Many thanks from this old country boy.....
JRMoore
JRMoore
Northern, Virginnie, USofWonderfulA - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 14:00:47 (ZULU)
As I indicated before, from the standpoint of reducing terrorist activity, I think Iran would have been a better target. OTOH, Iraq continued to be run by a vicious dictator. Surely you would not argue that it would be better had we left Saddam Hussein in power to continue the torture, rape, and murder of his citizens, and certainly Iraq was more of a threat to peace and stability in the region than Iran presently is. In addition, there is the possibility that Iran, with a more educated populace, will rid itself of its theocracy.
In other words, we had to go kick someone's ass just to show that we could, and Iraq was the top target. Clausewitz noted that war is the extension of politics by other means. And we achieved that goal at relatively low cost in terms of people killed. Yeah, the reconstruction of Iraq is going to cost us in dollars. Fortunately, we can afford it. If we can establish a democratic form of government there, and make it work, it may change the whole nature of the middle east. It may cause the mass of Egyptians for example, to say, "Gee, it works for them - why not us?"
We don't know, yet, that it will work. But I think it is worth a try. And while the committed Islamic terrorists who are determined to commit suicide for their cause are doubtless continuing to plan, those who support and fund them may now be thinking that doing so might not be a good idea, because we don't call the U.N., and we're hunting.
Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 14:08:52 (ZULU)
Slap, Slap, Slap come on Major snap out of it!!!
There feeling better now!! :-)
Hey how's this for a WILD suggestion. Contracts...sure why not, with one consideration...they ALL HAVE to be EX MILITARY!!! Gee imagine that ex-military folks working in a combat zone....NAH never work.:-)
Sarge
Sarge
Area 51, NM, USA - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 14:10:51 (ZULU)
A shout to Mike, Bill, Alan, John, 'Lito, 'Shoes, Joe, Bruce- good to see you all are still the same!!
John,
I recently took out a buzzard with my pickup...you were right about those red rings!! LOL! Keep it breezy bro'.
Joe,
I have been out of the loop but my prayers are still going for Nicole. Kepp your head down, keep your head down, keep your damn head down!! :)
Later,
Bill
Bill Moore
Goodview, VA, USA! - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 14:54:01 (ZULU)
Spoken from the heart. I only wish that what you said could come true. I think every father hopes his efforts will keep his sons from doing the same thing in some future 3rd world shit hole.
My father was in WW2, I had two tours in Nam, my son was in Desert Storm. I think you can see the pattern here. With all my heart I hope this one will end the cycle so we don't loose more good young men in a place most of us can't even pronounce.
Good speed to you and all the others who are there with you. My son is in a guard unit in Neb. and I selfishly pray every night that this thing gets settled and he is not called up to go again.
Pat
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 15:03:16 (ZULU)
That is a good idea, and we allow the years to go toward any retirement already earned, or qualify for a retirement in some cases! Hmmm.
Thanks all, I guess Darryl got most of what I needed to say to just about every democrat (except maybe Joe--sometimes) currently seeking the nomination of their party. He just brought it out.
Darryl, I am sure that you may have redeeming qualities in spite of what set me off. My "jury" is out on you. If you stick around after the drubbing you just got, cowardice ain't an accurate appraisal! Feel free to email me off roster to get to the brass tacks on the politics--I have a rather strong sense of why we are doing this, unbiased by the filter we call media. I fear that you and many others see what is presented to you, and that type of "filter" was decried after the Nazis fell. They too were pretty good at info control. How much good news gets put in the news lately?
Anyone? anyone?
Yeah, hell, I read classified reports, good and bad. I only see the bad on the news programs and papers. Go figure. We're doing pretty good here too; but you'll have to take my word for it--the media ain't getting that out world-wide. And if it's all bad news, that proves "them" right? Oh, I forgot--the media has no such bias. They report the facts, and the colorful adjectives are a figment of my imagination.
Darryl, I believe you are a victim of press reports, and I am beginning to feel sorry for you. Most folks here separate the BS from the truth, and question everything. It is their nature, it is shooting. Otherwise, we'd all be wearing our lucky t-shirts everytime we went to the range. Heheh.
Joe M.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 15:13:23 (ZULU)
Nice vent, I hope it was good for you,dissent can be uncomfortable. For the record no offence was meant but I guess being a "butthead" among other things my post was too clumsy.
This is not an apology for my thoughts, but I will apologize for offence unintentionally caused.
Site Moderator:
It appears I broke a taboo here by questioning the official mainstream line. As above, no offence was intended, but some feathers have become ruffled. Given such mighty offence has been taken by most at this point, its probably fruitless to continue subscribing on the shooting discussions. Please terminate my access to this site, I am sure Joe et al will be heartened.
Thankyou for providing this site, it is qualitively the best on the net.
Regards
Darryl
Darryl
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 15:25:53 (ZULU)
If there was a link in the "Books" section of this site to "After The Echo" that might help people find it, maybe improve sales.
Darryl,
What just occurred was a very, very mild "pie-fight". If you're going to let that drive you away, so be it.
Duman
Duman
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 15:33:47 (ZULU)
Hans Morganthau wrote a good book called "Politics Among Nations." In it he examines and destroys the "Devil Theory" of international relations. That is the theory Darryl above adduces.
Darryl picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue.
CDC'
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 15:45:42 (ZULU)
First,Darryl lots of talk. You been to Afghanistan? I have and its not what the English where up against. They are a beaten people who want us there to sort things out. The T's are from other countries. We actually liberated the good folks from the ones holding them hostage.
The rest of what you said sounds like straight from a JR. College Class. Please get a thought of your own. Go to Afghanistan and get educated on this.
Catman please get ahold of me. Its important
Rick B, same as Catman.
Undude/Mike
Mike Miller
CA, - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 15:54:51 (ZULU)
I only wish Darryl was correct... I wish the US would get into the business of using our military might to only SMASH AND KILL any that would threaten our way of life. I wish that those who threatened our way of life got to pay in oil for their foolishness...
I wish we would just tell France and Germany "nuts" and move on... adding them to the list of pathetic, envious states that resent America...
I can live with whatever those baboons come up with to call me, so long as my family and friends get to live in a free and prosperous state...
Diplomacy, engagement and all the rest of those terms used to justify indecisiveness simply encourage hateful, destructive types to believe thier own lies.... imagine... they actually convinced themselves that America would not fight back. Now that is remarkable....for they cannot even tell us a part from our old european ancestors...those without the courage to pioneer a new world.
medicjim
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 16:04:46 (ZULU)
I caught your recent post before shut down for bed, us civvys get cot time at 2300hours as it is here.
Joe, I didn't respond to your abuse, for a reason. I figured you read my post and with your views and your situation you needed to vent. It was well supported by other Americans on the Roster.
If you want a pissing match, call me a coward. I am many things, and maybe some of them might be good. I've been in shit where my knees shook like wind chimes, but I never ran.
For the record my politics are right wing and I have contempt for the mass media and the circus it calls "News". If you want my sources hit me off-site. One I will give here so others can test my research and if I am really a "butthead" is Zbigniew Brzezinski who as you know was a senior advisor to several of your presidents and a major power broker inn Washington politics. In 1997 he published a book "The Grand Chessboard: American Primacyand its Geostrategic Imperatives".
This clearly outlines US intentions. Its one of many books and papers written by senior US political figures that openly state a goal of US primacy.
Anyway I dont expect anyone to get past the "hammer the heathen dissenter" stage, which is a pity. One of the finest documents in existence is the US constitution, which is being undermined by the Patriot Act.
If that goes, you won't need to "kick ...ass" you can shoot me instead.haha.
Mike M,
You should have the first set of Austcams by now. If too small as they may be, get back to me by email and I'll get another size.
Joe
In closing I would like to write this for you.
One cold morning there was a little bird in a nest up a tree in a paddock. As dawn broke the mother flew off to get a feed. The little bird was lonely and anxious. Tweet tweet. The little bird was young and had poor balance, as it moved around the nest it tripped and fell out and onto the cold ground below.
Tweet tweet. The little bird was cold and frightened so it called for its mother, tweet (yeah , more tweets). Luckily a curious cow grazing nearby walked by , as it went by it dropped a hot steaming cow turd on the little birdy. The birdy was warm and comfortable now.
But still it wanted mum so continued calling.
A fox hunting in the area heard the tweeting and came to investigate. After pawing at the cow turd it saw the little bird and ate it.
The point Joe, is that not everybody who dumps on you is your enemy, and not everyone that pulls you out of the shit is your friend.
The important thing is to be smart enough to know the difference.
Regards
Darryl
Darryl
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 16:18:11 (ZULU)
Joe, is not a coward. He was one of first to get one of my slings and use it. He recently got out and has done right by me.
I think we can go back to what James Jarrett has said many times
"Good men can disagree and still be friends"
Darryl sorry for talking down to you, but I still believe you are wrong.
Undude/Mike
MikeMIller
CA, - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 16:28:38 (ZULU)
John Williams is suing me over things I have said on here and other boards. I am asking anyone with information about US Optics issues email me so we can talk.
Undude/Mike
Mike Miller
CA, - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 16:37:15 (ZULU)
4i's
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 17:29:05 (ZULU)
I got right past it and disproved your thesis in one short paragraph. The argument is over. You lost.
CDC'
Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 19:07:35 (ZULU)
Gents, I have to apologise for my plan to have a shoot this fall. I doesn't look like I'll be able to hook anything up until next March(04). That's when my unit is planning some squad assault stuff at McCoy and piggy backing should be mas easier. My apologies if anybody had made plans. Tentative dates are 5-7 March 2004, as always subject to change. S/F...Ken M
Ken M
IL, USA - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 19:14:16 (ZULU)
Maybe if you just hold your breath 'til you turn blue people will stop disagreeing with you.
jc
jcopeland
Cordova, TN, , USA - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 22:25:40 (ZULU)
It's also got information useful to those of us who are not working snipers but shoot in tactical competitions.
If you're a working sniper, military or police, you cannot afford not to read this book.
Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 22:46:54 (ZULU)
Mike, i best watch out that S&B, Nightforce, Leupold and Steiner don't get on my case then eh, what happened to freedom of speech?
I went hunting before i came to work tonight, heared some pigs buy with no bino's i couldn't make out much, anyways, i had to leave the woods to come to work. I realised today that it is the 13th aniversary of my arrival in Germany,(10th Sept) i guess you could call it P E day ( Pete in Europe). Oh i just saw the clock and its now 11th Sept here, i'm wondering if any of these terrorists are gonna try anything, you should have see the other guys faces when they saw id brought my guide gun into work " just in case" tonight, Pete
Peter Lincoln
D - Wednesday, September 10, 2003, at 23:30:36 (ZULU)