July 17, 1999 to July 23, 1999
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 00:01:49 (ZULU)
The guy that made them was named "COLT".
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 00:10:57 (ZULU)
Roger that Major Mc Sir!!!!!
Just for information...There is going to be a basic Long Range Precision Rifle course(Sniper) August 19-22, 1999 at Grandfield Ok. Students will be engaging targets from 50 to 1000 yrds. This will be a very good and challenging school.
Instructor will be SFC Steve SUTTLES, former Marine Corp Sniper, and holder of one of the longest kills in Vietnam with a rifle(1250). SUTTLES is a world class shooter and excellent instructor.SUTTLES also teaches at the National Guard Scout Sniper school in Little Rock AR., and just currently finished teaching the first sniper school for the Oklahoma Army National Guard. Cost of this course is $200 and the students will be given a top of the line Data book for their rifle.
For further information, email me.Applications must be in NLT 10
Aug 99. This class is open to Civilian, Military and Law Enforcement, and
back ground checks will be done.
Bobby Whittington <WHATACOP@AOL.COM>
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 00:19:07 (ZULU)
Seanc,
The .45-70 isn't a "Quigley Down Under" long range rifle even if
it's a Sharps. It does throw one heck of a chunk of lead; but long range
it ain't! I can't afford Africa; but according to several of my more affluent
friends, a .375 H&H mag or the lowly .30-06 will do just fine unless
you're going after Cape Buffalo or larger.
Tom,
I've got an old Parker-Hale 1200 with the front sight and sight
hood still in place. Doesn't bother the scope picture a bit except for
a slight bit of fuzz at the bottom. It's actually the sight hood that causes
the fuzz; but it doesn't affect how the rifle shoots.
Bolt,
The guys are telling it straight. Just pull the rear pin and fold
it open. It's not worth the chance of screwing up the muzzle for the few
seconds you might save.
Hung my new "Looky Loop Hole" LR M3 on my 700 VS .308 yesterday and after I figured that you had to remove the elevation cap to zero the bloody thing, everything went fine. I thiught something was screwy when it shot 16" high at 100 yards with it cranked all the way down(or is it up?)The ninth thru thirteenth rounds did about 1 moa @ 100 yards. I've used so many patches in the last few days, I feel like I've been cheating my customers when I've cleaned their rifles. Time to hit the big city of Owensville(Population 3300!) for a little Friday night whoopee!!
The Doctor(It's Only a nickname) is out!
Doc <docs@fidnet.com>
The steamy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 00:36:42
(ZULU)
I received e-mail from Burris customer service yesterday that said
the Signature Zee rings in 30mm would be made in year 2000 with no set
date.For those of you who care.Don't buy stock in that ring lapping tool
company :)
Bruce E. <BGENLVTEX@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 00:47:47 (ZULU)
Hola!!
Hey Pat, sorry to miss out on that cold beer, boy it was a hot SOB out on the prairie, eh!! One of these days, I promise, I'll get to your part of the country and we'll have to tip a few!! Hey, just saw the orders for the SDHP HTR's, oh my oh my. Criminals beware, the South Dakota HP's are pickin up some mean hardware, lemme tell ya, heheh!!
MikeM,
1/4 to 1/2 MOA with 168's @ 2700fps, not too bad. What were the Chrony's on the target that came with the gun?? Hell, I can't remember. 175's, hoo, they should shoot out of a 12 twist barrel, but they are on the high end of the spectrum on that twist, so there is a chance that some loads may stabilize better than others. I'd probably try to slow 'em down to 2600-2700, but you'd probably get a better idea of how they are shooting after 600 yds anyway. That's what I hear anyway.
How is that barrel doing as far as fouling??
Guys:
It's probably been mentioned before, but if ya wanna see a prelim test of an H-S HTR, go to Mel's Sniper Page
Well peoples, gotta head out, take it easy
JR <mrpink@rapidnet.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 01:16:14 (ZULU)
Hi,
I'm new to this group and I have two technical questions about a Remington 700PSS. I have read, here and elswhere, that they have excessive distance from the tip of the bullet (when loaded to commercial OAL) and the beginning of the rifling in the barrel.
(1) Is this _exactly_ what is called freebore?
700PSS rumored to have between .010 and .030 clearance (supposedly to avoid overpressure if bullet seated too far out). One person set his barrel to .000" then backed off to .002".
(2) What is the optimum clearance, for a given OAL, to maximize accuracy?
(3) Just how careful to I have to be to not exceed the given OAL?
Glen <glen@lumisys.com>
San Jose, CA, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 01:53:21 (ZULU)
Well, shoot darn!
I go eat dinner and come back, and find a bleeped-out block under my post and several retorts to it.... guess I missed what it was.
Did they say anything worth repeating, or just a bunch of foul-mouthed jabs at us?
Think, we're defending the right for them to do that. Ironic, eh? Why can't they take a moment to think about that... oh well......
L8R,
Leslie Bright <lbright@utk.edu>
Knoxville, TN, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 01:57:20 (ZULU)
The last time I transported Carlos Hathcock back from Camp Perry, was
around 1991-92. I told him I would never shampoo the passenger seat again.
He laughed. It was indeed an honor to be next to the legend before he checked
out and went to see St. Peter. I will cherish the talk back to the Cleveland
Airport, the laughs, the very deep emotional thoughts about our duty and
tours in Vietnam. It is a terrible shame that we are no longer able to
hold the "Carlos Hathcock Wild Turkey Shoot" because of the expenses at
Camp Perry.
Carlos, I love ya big guy and miss you very much. We will meet again one day...keep that rifle at port arms and await my arrival and I will be glad to take over for your watch!
Semper Fi, Don
Don Maurer <marine1@raex.com>
Canal Fulton, Ohio, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 01:58:15 (ZULU)
I posted this wuestion here before and nobodt answered and I was wonderong
if anybody knew the answer.
In an artivle on this site, Dave Reed says that he shot sharpshooter
in basic training, but he was a sniper. So you dont have to score expert
with your service rifle in basic training to become a sniper, you can improve
later? Can someone please answer me on this one I have been wondering for
a long time.
TonyD
Stillwater, NJ, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 02:33:30 (ZULU)
seanc -- Have fun with that Steyr Scout. Saw one at the range shoot
.4", .6", & .75" groups with GM. How in the F##K it does that repeatly
with that wimpy little fluted 19" barrel is beyond me. The damn thing shot
three different bullet weights to nearly the same point of aim at 100 as
well.
If you want to shoot long range, why not start by buying an M3 scope
and sticking it on the Steyr? Probably won't stay supersonic to 1000, but
it ought to be fun and the guys on the Scout list would probably be interested
in how it works. When you eventually get a longrifle you'll need the scope
anyway.
Jim <hampshire@mediacen.navy.mil>
Ft. Meade, MD, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 02:55:31 (ZULU)
Tony,
In the Marine Corps as an infantryman you have to qualify yearly. I believe there is/was some such requirement that you have scored expert for the two consecutive years prior to your attendance of sniper school... at least that was the BS that was fed to us. I should defer that question to Gooch, he should know better than I.
No, you don't HAVE to qualify as expert while in boot camp. I can say, however, that quite often your qualification at PI is your best... you have a full week of intense snapping in, then a week of range time leading up to your actual firing for record. You're focused, not distracted there. I qualified expert while I was there; I can honestly say that was my best firing for record. After that, I was usually having to qualify on a B-mod course instead of the normal KD course.... the B-mod course bites, and Bites Hard. They take away the 500 yard line, and add in extra off-hand rounds.
However, that's moot, because I believe they have changed the way they qualify now, so the point system is different than it used to be, and the ranges are conducted a little differently than they used to be.
Does that help?
Question to all:
No such critter as Mark 4 bases for Savage 110s. Which bases would be preferred by the public at large, and which bases are to be avoided at all costs?
L8R,
Leslie Bright <lbright@utk.edu>
Knoxville , TN, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 02:59:54 (ZULU)
Looking for some information and advice regarding inch lbs of torge
required for bauer tapered bases on a Remington 700 long action.
(Should the bases be bedded with accu-glass or similar product.)
Also torge for the screws that attach the stock to the action, and
the four torks bolts on the ring tops of a 30mm badger ordnance ring set.
Thanks Larry
Larry Collins <reming@megsinet.net>
Marseilles, Illinois, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 03:06:53
(ZULU)
ANDREW
DON'T get the sniper stock. choat makes a varmit style that looks
better, two pounds lighter and better grip. The sniper stock is too big
and heavy. My savage shoots great with this setup. The only drawback to
the varmit stock no sling swivel studs. I mounted mine on the starbord
side so the rifle lays flat on my back when I use the sling. Great stock
for the money.
LARRY <TMHORN@HOTMAIL.COM>
OKLA., USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 03:59:32 (ZULU)
Jim;I'm the resident advocate for short wimpy flutted barrels so just
let me say it happens quite frequently. Most people just won't try them
so they don't know.
Bolt; 90% chance old Sam Colt made you a chrome barrel! Maybe more
than that. Wilde or Scott can tell you the odds. If it's not a target model
HB special it is probably Chrome. That just means it's hard as hell. It
can shoot good or bad but if it's good it will be good a long time and
if it's bad It' sure won't get any better. I'm not an expert on AR's but
I feel yore pain!
Larry; I can't give you figures but just wanna say that most people
over torque that stuff. Probably 45 in lbs or so....somebody else who uses
a torque and measures answer this one.
Bruce that is good news!About the Burris Z rings. That is good stuff
and no lapping there boys! No scope scarring!
Leslie; it was just some kid that couldn't even spell any word over
4 letters. Poor thing was just misinformed about the kind and gentle nature
of Snipers. Hell if we were as mean as he said we shoot em up close.
Tony; Target shooters make good marksmen but not always good snipers
although a few have sure distinguished themselves as both. Recon boys are
a pool that gets picked from (as I'm told). Shooting is only one part.
You do need to see good. Anyone can be taught to shoot good if they can
see good but it takes other characteristics to make a good sneak sniper
out of you. First you got to be alert and aware of what's going on around
you. Do you watch the streets/hills and whats going on when you ride down
the road. Do you watch the other people around you? Do you hear everything
and focus on what you hear? Hunters learn to watch for game everywhere
all the time and that focus on what's around them will keep you alive.
How are you when you are alone? Do you do well and do you watch your back
trail all the time. There's a lot too this stuff. Read all about it elsewhere
in here in SC the boys have put together some real good stuff. Join Recon
if you want to learn some Sniper skills if you can get in they know all
the good stuff and if you can work alone and shoot good maybe it will happen.
Sounds like you have the desire and that's no small thing. Learn to be
a technician by that I mean learn to deal in small details. IT will help
in your survival and your shooting.
Lemme out of here.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 04:21:43 (ZULU)
seanc, regarding the suitability of the .45-70 for long range big game
shooting/hunting, possibly in Africa, it is not. The ballistics of that
caliber are best left to 200 yard and under. It slows down like a cinderblock
pushed across mud. And for dangerous game, the legal minimum caliber allowed
in Africa is .375 H&H magnum. For plains game, there are much better
calibers, like the .300 and .338 Win. mag. Save the .45-70 for 200 yard
paper punching, or whacking a deer at closer range. Nostalgia and Hollywood
images do not a long-distance cartridge make.
Caulder, re the "poor mans'sniper" project, with the money you have
spent on fluting that barrel, bedding and floating the Choate stock (which
does not require, nor probably benefit from, that technique), and freezing
the barrel (again questionable benefit), and another trigger at some point,
I suggest you consider this: $350 Savage, $150 Choate stock, $?? for fluting
and bed/float, $50 + cryo, and $75 for Timney trigger (or you might be
better off getting the Sharp Shooter Supply model from Midway for $76),
you are into that outfit for $750 or more, is my guess. A Remington 700VS
costs $489 (dealer) or say $575 in the real world. You can adjust their
excellent trigger to perfection, it comes with an H-S Precision stock (which
to the torque question guy should be cranked to 65 INCH lbs.), and you
are in business from the get-go. Or you could opt for the 700VSSF (stainless
fluted model) with a dealer price of $590, and a real world price of $660
or so. That Choate stock weighs a ton (okay, 6 lbs.). The H-S stock about
2 lbs. Just something to think about for next time.
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Livermore, CA, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 04:25:59 (ZULU)
Thanks to everybody who helped me on the expert thing.
And i don't want this to sound stupid, but I actually notice things
and/or see things around me that usually the poeple with me dont. I enjoy
hunting and stalking by myself. I learned to be patient a while ago by
stalking crows and groundhogs(sounds stupid but it teaches you alot) but
sometimes i admit i was a little careless because i was bored(which i stopped).
I love the outdoors and always love to be outside. thanks again.
TonyD
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 05:26:54 (ZULU)
Remington:
Remington are now offering the .300UltraMag. with a composite barrel.
According to Guns Australia magazine this barrel is light-weight
stainless steel surrounded by epoxy hardened graphite fibre.
Any bets on how long this will remain in production?
Erma:
The German Erma company (who produced MP38/40 smg) has a new sniper
rifle which was adopted in .338 Lapua by the GSG9 border police.
It looks like it borrowed the Accuracy International stock, the
SIG idea of a barrel strip to reduce glare and they're the good bits.
Its only claim to fame is that it can change calibres between 308,300WIN
MAG and 338Lapua Mag without gunsmithing tools. The test writer stated
that the muzzle brake forced the sound painfully over the shooters head.
I think that about does it for this new offering.
Next the sports report...
Jargon by Army Reservists:
I thought I would sleep out.......... ........Lost
I stalked to within metres of the enemy.......Didn't see them
The hill took hours to climb.................Fat and unfit
A natural sense of direction.................Followed the river
A snap shot.................................Unauthorized Discharge
....................................................................
dt <darryl.todd@eddept.wa.edu.au>
Deep South - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 06:47:30 (ZULU)
All you Ca. shooters better call Grey Davis and put in a plea to not
sign SB23. It'll make your m1a an assault weapon. Also make you a felon
if you own magazines with more than 10 rnd capacity. (We will be required
to register our m1as as assault weapons.) All this as of Jan. 1, 2000.
(I don't like the word "plea" either, mates.)
Spud
dennis <usmcspud@aol.com>
merced, calisocialismfornia, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 07:40:44
(ZULU)
This has nothing to do with which rifle you want,own or need/desire
or what load you use or even what caliber. What I want to know is HOW you
Level your SCOPE ?? What do you use to make sure the reticle is verticle
to the rifle. Whats worked best...what doesn't. Lately I have been going
to the range with a length of 550 cord and some lead weight tied to the
bottom and I tie it on the target stand at 50 or 100 yds to check on vertical
relationship...gets to be a hassle when others are waiting to shoot but....gets
the job done, tried a "gizmo" you put in place of the bolt but that item
sucked big time !! Have seen a device in Sinclairs catalog but am not yet
willing to shell out 25-30 bucks. What do the "heavy hitters" use ?? I
can't afford to pull out any more of what little hair I don't have !!
OUT HERE
Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
Hot,Humid, Heart of Dixie, AL, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at
09:31:56 (ZULU)
Bolt,
Somewhere between the handguard and the muzzle you may see CMP stamped
into the barrel.
C = Chrome bore and chamber
M = Magnetic Particle inspected
P = Proofed
As an aside.
Colt bolts have MPC etched into them.
The Colt bolt carriers always have a C on the left side.
Here are two decent spots to get answers to most questions. The first is a heavy used email list. Of course one has to suscribe.
http://www.ar15.com/
This one is a forum type page. It is very good too.
Here one can read all he wants, but must register to post I believe.
http://www.ar15.com/ubb/cgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro
Ron N.
Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 09:53:39 (ZULU)
Good Morning Folks: Bill and HIllary are going to have to stop writing
things on this post and then poor Scott and Marius have to delete them.
Anyway . . . . has anyone had any experience with the new Accuracy International AICS stockk available for a Rem 700 short action. It looks like virtually the same stock they use for their Accuracy International rifle (hubba-hubba - expensive stuff, but neat lookin')I inquired about the cost and it is right around the $650.00 mark. Im still trying to justify it to my Sweetie that I really need one of these new toys. (Ive almost got her convinced.) Has anyone played around with this new stock and in you opinions are they worth the bucks. I love my McMillans (whenever I get them in.) but an willing to try something new and different.
al o.
Al OStapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Inquisitive About new Stocks in , Ohio, USA - Saturday, July 17,
1999 at 11:39:09 (ZULU)
Now i'm not embarrassed, I feel stupid!
One is a Colt Match Target Competition HBAR. The Colt site says it has a 1 in 9 twist. Will assume that it is not chrome lined and will clean with standard breaking procedure.
The other is a Colt Match Target Tactical Elite. Has a bull barrel. The Colt site does not list this specific model. It does list the Match Target with a 1 in 7 twist. I will assume it is chrome lined and not breakin. Just clean after every 5 shot groups? The serial number on this one is 779 and I understand that there were only 1000 made. It has a Houge round foreend and a benchrest buttstock.
Even with my glasses on it looks like both barrels and chambers are the same color.
I guess this also means that the same ammo will probably not shoot the same in both guns with different twists.
Damn, time to sell it all and go back to a cotten picking bb gun.
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 12:11:14 (ZULU)
Damn Ron, you are now "the Man".
Just looked. The Match Target Competition HBAR has CMP 1/9 on the barrel. This means chrome, 1 in 9 twist.....
The Tactical Elite has MP, 1/8 Bull BBL. This means not chrome lined with a 1 in 8 twist? This must be a custom shope gun because Colt does not list a 1/8 twist for any of it's barrels.
Time to burn some 223's for the first time in the Bolt's life. Look
out people beside of me LOL.
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 12:18:41 (ZULU)
Bolt,
In checking barrels last night, I found a post-ban barrel marked CMP that was NOT chrome lined. Don't know if it was marked improperly, but you can trust the method I gave you off-list to determine whether the barrel is lined or not.
Like Bill R. says, these barrels can shoot pretty well, or be a real
dog, but chances of getting a "barn burner" are slim to none.
Bill Wylde <k9wxr@rr1.net>
HUMID - SE, IL, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 13:04:39 (ZULU)
Break- Break on the net....
You guys have not heard from me because I usually leave these things
alone, but the comment provided below gives me cause for concern. I am
an active duty Marine Corps Major. I am willing to die for the many freedoms
we, as Americans, enjoy and we often take for granted on a daily basis.
The First Ammendment, which guarantees our Freedom of Speech is one such
ideal; just as is our Second Amendment, the Right to Bear Arms. In both
cases, we, as Americans, enjoy these priviledges- but also- there is a
certain amount of individual responsibilty which SHOULD go along with their
use. In the case of the individual below, his original comments were blocked
out. He is using his First Amendment Right. He is completely entitled to
his opinion. HOWEVER, just like the individuals who abuse their Second
Amendment Rights, he is not acting in a responsible, rational manner by
using foul, profane language. I, as a professional who takes my citizenship
responsibilites SERIOUSLY, distance myself for both Amendment abusers.
I am often truly ashamed that such Americans exist and they feel the need
to become base, foul and otherwise irresponsible.
So here is my personal response: Citizen: Some morning around 0430 when you're rolling over in your rack and scratching yourself while dreaming of a sweet babe, I'll be awake, tired, uncomfortable, and thiking about you while I'm protecting your right to irresponsibly blast people- but same goes for the guns wackos, litters and flag burners out there-you and your kind don't deserve me. You have proven that YOU are no better than the exact persons that you attack. I will never allow myself to sink to your level. Semper Fi American.
Original post included below for reference....
>FUCK YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Major Kim Hunter, USMC <impactarea@snipercountry.com>
So . . . any info on the AWC AICS stock anyone?????
al o.
Erma and Arnold Arms appear to be competing for the most unsubstantiated
adverstising claims.
Jerry
Have you checked the torquing on stock bolts?
I had same dilemna, loosened, then re-torqued stock bolts to 65 inch
pounds and it went away. I went 30 inch pounds on both, the 45 inch pounds,
then to 65 inch pounds final.
Flexing of mag well sheet metal?
Other?
Chao!
Got to shoot some really neet full auto's yesterday that include
a CAR-15, H&K 53, MP5 SD, and the brand new H&K G36.I'm going back
today for another fun day of full auto mayhem and destruction!
More than just a few vehicles are going to be blown apart bit by
bit.Tonight,a full auto tracer display is going to light up the night sky.I'm
going to take all kinds of pictures.
Oh well, got to go.Were just getting ready to go back on the road
again.
All the Best,
For 30 mm rings, go to your nearest construction site and ask the
electricians where their conduit "bone pile" is. Ask nicely if you can
take a foot or so of 1" EMT. The outside diameter is scarily close to 30
mm. Stop at a hard ware store or garage and buy
For 1" rings, try 3/4 EMT or 1/2 Rigid. They are both very close.
Does spell check not work for expletives and vitriolic spews ?
For the record, I anxiously await news of Leslie's foray into the
Jim Liles <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
Question 1. Are you a WM?
If the answer to question 1 is yes go to question 2. If no, then
disregard question 1.
Question 2. Are you the former wife of Tim Hunter?
Question 3. If yes to all of the above don't you remember me?
Kent Gooch
Early this year Colt discontinued the chrome lined barrels. This
probably applies only to the civilian, and not military rifles. I would
hope that their identity markings would be different.
jake <maryld@1st.net>
Will now be looking for your favorite hunting loads for the following:
Tomorrow, going to practice field stripping the Colts so I won't
look like a total dummy at the range next week, fumbling around and such.
Got to figure out where they need lubricating and what to use. I really
want to thank everyone on the quick posts on the Colts. Taking the assemblage
of advice, I'm going to treat both of them like they are standard barrels
and breakin accordingly.
Al O, I had already put the Badgers and one of them thar Leepeoholds
4.5-14x4 tactical with mildots on it. May not shoot worth a damn but it
really looks sexy.
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
Jim Liles <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
Sincerely,
Double checking the ammo, it may be that several lots were mixed
during last class in same box. Helpful students. I measure after Jerry
Rice noticed a difference, and found they are not the same in OAL after
being fired. So I will go out Thursday with fresh ammo and go for it with
fresh ammo.
JR you did great I will shoot 168's till the cows come home. You
chrono was about the same. I got 2700 in 70 degree weather.
Mike
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
No one has offered their clapped-out SKS yet for my continuing underwater
experiments... c'mon, somebody's got one... I'll trade you something shiny
for it....
Larry,
Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
everybody,
GOD bless all those defending our country and our rights
Most, not all, but a lot of tactical rifles are based on the Rem.
700 action. I bought my Rem. 700 rifle at a pawn shop because it was the
1st short action left-handed model I could find. I had a complete custom
varmint rifle built around that action from the ground up. The design is
100% tactical because the design and function met my requirements as a
long distance varmint hunter. The barrel work, truing of the action and
bolt were done by a gunsmith using CNC controlled equipment. McMillan A3
aluminum pillar bedded stock, Hart stainless steel barrel, jewell trigger,
leupold 14x35 (after Premier Reticle boosted the power) mil-dot scope (Mil-dot
scope was a requirement when I attended SMTC long range shooting class
last Oct.) Gun will shoot .3’s and .4’s and mid .2’s on those perfect days.
Total cost around $2500.00 bucks w/ glass.
I see a lot of rifles being offered by Chandler, Texas Brigade, Andrew
Webber and many other fine gunsmiths. My shooting partners was built by
Mike Lau and uses the same components as my rifle and shoots just as well.
The quality of both my rifle and my buddies is superb and flawless. What
I’m finally getting to is, why is there such a wide price range for these
type rifles using the same or comparable components and equipment. I just
can’t see how some can cost $1.5, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6K I know some of the higher
end ones include the glass, but what more can be done to those rifles to
put them up in those price ranges.
I welcome any thoughts, opinions or insights into this. I am also
not trying to stir the pot on this and get everyone all worked up.
Jeff <harmonj@ttc.com>
Hi mate,the 1st AUG I shoot was an Austrian made gun,the NZArmy wanted
the guns ASAP, the Aussie Lithgow factory could not supply soon enough.So
the 1st 4,000 guns came from Austria,so the people who needed them the
most had them,Infantry,1987.The rest of the order (14,000) was supplyed
at a later date from the new Steyr line at Lithgow Ausrtalia.When I talk
of the AUG in NZ Service it is from first hand experience and knowedge,not
from some PR guy or the news paper or from some Army or Ex-Army guy who
knows nothing of the weapon system(read pogue,remf,cook,bottle washer etc,etc
you get the idea).Now some people may have got the opinion I donot like
the M-16 series,they would be wrong,I find it a good weapon(keep it clean,the
Israeli's call it the gun that needs to be shaved,refering to the cut down
shaving brush they use to clean the weapon,and that it like's to be clean).I
have no problem using the M-16 serie's or the AUG,horse's for course's,both
have good point's and bad one's.I have no problem with the Aussie made
AUG's the NZArmy use's,I have only used the Aussie Issue AUG's once in
1996,for 2 week's.There version is slightly different,trigger mech and
the reticle,didnt like there change's.If the weapon is so shhiittteee,would
you like to stand in front of mine at 500m,can I strongly suggest not to
do this as it could be hazadous to your health???(thats a joke).
RE Lapua B416 .308 200gr subsonic projectile,
No typo,Number is correct,you will probablily not find it in the
latest Lapua catalog's,but if you have a older one,in the '80's you will
see it is the bullet used in the manufacture of subsonic ammo.It is still
being made ,but is usually no longer listed in there catalog's.
Actually just got back from taking members of my Regiment thru LFTT,Live
Fire Training Tests,simiply a series of induced stoppages,where they have
to apply the right IA to fix the fault,(Imediate Action)mag change,gas
stoppage's etc.Stefan,you would have felt right at home as the range is
a HK design,like many in Europe,300m automated type,it's the only one like
it in NZ,it's in the Linton Camp(Palmerston North)and it's called the Pearson's
Range.
Sorry,feel routed,,
Later Chris
The same reason that any other product has a wide range of prices.
Some of it is technical quality, some of it is "Name" or aura, some of
it is statis. I recently sold a popular "sniper" rifle for far more than
it was worth, to someone that had to have a real "Sniper rifle"!
The science of making very accurate rifles has no secrets... good
parts, careful, knowing labor, and proper layout and design. This puts
a good .308 rifle (good being less than .5" all the time, often .25") in
the $2000 dollar class. Also remember that many of these guns are built
by hand, one at a time, because the demand is so small.
And of course, once you have a "Name" and people must have their
gun built by "Big Eddy", then the price (and waiting time) goes up.
Pablito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Who's Big Eddy? Whats his turnaround?, and does he prefer Remington
or Sav'age rifles? ;-)
Have a great weekend folks!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
Says his costumers have many groups of less than 2" at 1400 meters,
and because of that reputation, there is a twelve year wait!!
'lito
You said Ruu! Ruuug! and you KNOW what THAT does to me!
Darn,
And I had this old military surplus BRNO made German SS41 that I
wanted fitted with a custom .338 Lapua barrel and a Choate Ultimate Sniper
stock!
Oh well back to the salt mines!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
Partison <Partison@hotmail.com>
If your first shot is the one that counts the most, shouldn't you
practice such that every shot is a cold bore shot? Which means that you
would have to complete your end of day cleaning ritual before each schot
and shot with an ambient temperature barrel.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Al O., found something that you can give up them sheep for! A buddy
sent me a link to a site called ampland.com. It's totally disgusting.
Well practiced field stripping the Ar's all day. Next is the full
strip down. Another shooter indicated that I need to be extremely careful
with the Elite cause of it's match grade status. Are there any reasonably
priced upgrades for these two? The trigger on the Match HBAR feels heavier
than the Elite.
Brookfield is the mount you want. Go to the links section. look up
fulton armory. They can get it for you. Plan on an 800 yard range. you
bullet will be going subsonic after that in an M1A. You will have a very
nice weapon indead. You can lay down fire and snipe. you will not need
that shaving brush like ar10 and sr25 boys. You can fill it with sand and
salt water and it will still work.
CJ
.
Sort your own shite out,I get the impression you have never fired
the rifle,the talk you give appears second hand,if not post your experience
with the rifle.I will admit only to being tired when I made the last post,when
some of the guy's had their SLR's replaced with M-16's they complained
that the weapon wasn't as good as there old SLR and when their M-16 was
replaced with the AUG they had the same reaction.Soldier's like other's
do not like change and some time's resist learning new thing's and usually
prefer the old thing's that they are more familar with.
Chris
I spoke with my father this afternoon. He received his 12X Gold Ring
scope back from Leupold this week, after having it checked out. It seems
he managed to drop it (& his rifle) off a shooting bench in a moment
of spurrious clumsiness. Visible damage was done, based on marks that appeared
on the objective bell.
He sent it to the good folks at Leupold with a request that they
'check it out' for any internal damage and 'please do what is needed'.
Surely, it had to have suffered some terrible effects from the fall onto
concrete!
When he received the package this week, he opened it to find an explanataion
of services: Replaced eyepiece with new, improved model; Replaced objective
lock ring; Re-columnated lenses; Returned to owner.
The cost? ZERO!!! Is that class or what? I would have believed that
I could list all of the businesses that would render such a service on
the toes of one hand! But not these guys! This is the stuff of LEGENDARY
SERVICE!
So, gang, as you contemplate your next optics purchase, let me add
to your 'pros' list for Leupold. These are the scopes built for serious
shooters!
Oh, and did I mention? This scope was purchased in 1966!!!!!!!!!!
Semper Fi!
Roger
All posts on the Austeyr are verifiable via Australian DoD Army-publications
and the mainstream press where events have been reported. No secret esoteric
knowledge just events that occured.
Did they happen to me or in my view? No. My feeling is that this
would not have comforted the diggers in the US to show off the new gear
when a high percentage failed. Same for the other cases posted.
If I had cause to doubt the veracity and the integrity of my colleagues
I would not post the information. Just because information is not 1st hand
does not negate its value.
In 1990 I was in a war zone and told how a previous French element
was attacked and received a fatality. The young indigenous villager could
have said nothing, but the fact that he did equipped me to make a more
informed decision. The villager was not involved in the rocket attack that
claimed the Frenchman,ie second hand information.
If you require more details you can email me direct or phone me,
I believe you have my number. Are we quite finished or should we continue
to play "my dick is bigger than yours" because our views do not coincide?
.
On page 47 of the 1999 Leupold catalog, under the FAQ column, question
3 is: "Can the scope finish be changed?"
The reply says: "No, because it would not be practical. Stripping
the old finish could alter maintube dimensions, which could threaten the
waterproof seals."
Of course, since it's a SNIPER rifle, you're going to paint the whole
thing to camouflage it, I suppose you don't HAVE to start with matte; but
I'd not start with the silver, at least. Gloss would be bad enough, but
you can paint it to loose the shine.
L8R,
Daniel: What's up? You live in Surrey? Darn, that's got to be close
to the shooting Walhalla in the UK! Never been at Bisley, but sure would
like to go there and shoot someday. That's like holy ground! I guess it's
like Camp Perry for these American people that frequent this site. When
I lived in the UK, I was in Nottingham and there wasn't a lot of good shooting
to be done over there.
Jim H.: Long time no speak, buddy! Did that lovely wife of yours
allow you to buy ANOTHER rifle? I thought you still had that Rem700 on
order? Didn't know you was so loaded.... Are you still going to Kosovo?
If so, let me know and I'll tell you where to find my buddy who's already
getting a sun-tan over there. Say Hi to your family for me, will ya!
L8er!
Stefan
PS. Chris & Darryl: Give it up guys. My dick's bigger....
No Kosovo is on indefinant hold. Everything pretty much is at the
moment, all new command structure, etc.
To drag this laborously back onto tactical shooting, I liked the
bipod on your rifle so much I went and got myself a Gibbs Saturday. (pretty
much the same as a Versi pod). I read the sugested modifications from "In
Review" and have a better way to install a tensioning screw to it. Instead
of threading the screw directly into the soft aluminum, install a helicoil.
That is one of those steel inserts to re-thread a stripped out hole. That
way all the wear and tear of loosening and tightening will be on the steel
insert and not the cheap aluminum.
PS: I don't know if I mentioned it or not, but my younger son (the
one who, during breakfast, gave you the step by step directions to his
school "in case you need to go there") says he's glad you didn't have to
go to Kosovo. Wife says hi & still can't get over how tall you are.
Jim <hampshire@mediacen.navy.mil>
Tony
Chris,Darryl & Stefan:I have the biggest dick,it's a real shooter,I
can group em all in an inch at 1000+ yards but I do Handloading,I've got
a real hot load I chrono'd it at 3000fps.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
See ya then!
Bill Rogers,
I caught two big fat copperheads today, I tried wrapping the first
one round the barrel, duck taping the tail to the barrel, and it done got
more than a little upset!
Well, I then tried mounting the second one so the mouth was at the
muzzle (Al O's directions) and it was P$%SSED!
Question, How do you keep the snakeskins from stinkin from the heat?
Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
seanc <casler@concorde.com>
The African Buffalo (which is a REAL buffalo), is a real mean bitch,
and practically bullet proof. Even a large male lion will not take on an
African Buff.
You will be very "undergunned" with a .375 H&H, and be wishing
you had at least a .416, or larger... maybe a 50MG. And when the African
Buff is wounded, they don't mill around waiting to die... they get revenge
on the stupid little white boy with the little gun... and the yellow puddle
at his feet.
Pablito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
As far as consideration of the 223. Here is what I was considering
thinking... I have an M1a (plain Jane, will send out to get Beefed up at
some point). I also receive my Steyr Scout tomorrow (can't wait!).
The deal is I live in Mass. the laws here are getting SO BAD you
would not even believe it! ALL SHOTGUNS are being reclassified as "riot
guns" (yes, even over and unders).. so you can see where things are going..
So should I diversify into calibers OTHER than 308 (ie 223) or should
I stay w/ one caliber??
Please inform me.
For me and my country it's to late but is there nothing you can do
against what your government is doing.I hope you guy's dont have to do
what we had to do.
Good luck.
How is your sight picture, Mirage? Does the target seem to "float"
for second shot string?
Next check the barrel channel by running a dollar bill between the
barrel and forearm. Does it bind anywhere in channel?
Next remove barreled action from stock and look of any irregularities
in the fit in between the receiver/bedding block, and recoil lug slots.
Oh by the way, how fast is the "quick shots"?
Chao!
peteR
A 8 lb .300WM rifle will generate about 27 ft. lbs. of recoil, 15-17
ft lbs is considered about the max for "average" military dudes.
A heavier rifle w/scope and a decent brake will reduce this considerably.
I shot a .300 WBY mag with the OEM brake in 1992-93 and the recoil from
the bench (fifty rounds)did not seem any worse than a comparable .30'06,
but the muzzle blast and flash was horrendous.
A comfortable shooting position, good recoil pad, and if needed a
PAST type pad will go a long way towards taming a .300
Chao!
And after all that BULLSHIT!!They restrict the amount of ammo that
I can buy and I have to specify which rifle I want to buy and which caliber
it is chambered for,if I want another rifle I have to prove why I NEED
it and then pay more.Then I'm restricted on where and when I can use it,if
the rifle is stolen my licience is revoked and I face possible legal action
from the police.
What really PISSES ME OFF!! Is that if the cop who is dealing with
your application does'nt LIKE you for ANY reason he can refuse your application
and you have to still pay for it ALL!!
Of coarse there is very little choise on guns as everything is taxed
big time.
SO FAR they have banned:ALL pistols
Anyone suggest any nice places where there is a big pro shooting
community where there are a lot of shooters around?Any advice?
Anyway back to the real world,the most I can do to counter the anti's
short of taking them all out(which is what they expect) is join the NRA
and try to spread the truth that we are all not nutters(well most) but
merely average guys who find self satisfaction in an art form known as
shooting.
By the way the reason all these restrictions came about was because
a few head cases lost the plot(in alot of cases the police made mistakes
when liciencing them) and thought it would be fun to shoot a few kid's.
Daniel.
Appreciate what you have!
In our last episode, I had sent my Remington 700PSS in .308 back
to the factory due to a grossly defective crown, as the 45 degree bevel
at the muzzle was clearly eccentric to the bore, leaving the bottom of
the muzzle deeply cut and the top not crowned at all. While I had not tested
it with a wide variety of loads, I reasonably attributed its faulure to
go sub-2MOA @ 100 yards with known-good M852-equivilant handloads to be
the direct result of this serious defect and considered further testing
to be a waste of time. Disgusted at a reputable arms maker for screwing
up on something so easy to get right yet so critical to a rifles performance,
I let the LE distributer I bought it from ship it back to Ilion for repair.
The months pass...
I go to pick up the rifle today and the first words out of the managers
mouth is, "its here, but you arent going to like this". He proved to be
a master of understatement. Remington shipped it back with a note saying
that it had shot a .5 MOA group at 100 yards with the Remington 168gr.
MK load and that the rifle needed no repair as far as they could tell.
It was returned with the crown unmodified and thus still visibly screwed
up. I have no issue wih the distributor, as they have done everything they
could to help me on this (even tossed me a box of 168gr. Remington MK loads
to try in it) but my distress and disgust with Remington has now deepened.
How any competant and reputable arms maker can let such a rifle out the
door not once, but *twice* is beyond me. First of all, I find it difficult
to belive that such a group was ever fired out of this rifle, as even the
most lowly of Carcanos of Mosin Nagant rifles not only leave the factory
with better crowns but generaly have better crowns after several years
of hard combat! Second, even if such a miraculous group was shot using
Remingtons ammo, it sure as hell wont shoot with ammo that I know will
shoot MOA to beyond 300 yards out of every rifle it has ever been fired
out of, until now. I cant have this thing being flaky and picky about what
it wants to shoot on a given day, assuming it actualy would shoot *anything*
even marginaly well.
So what now? Well, in just a minuite I am headed over to the Brownells
sight to do what I should have done to begin with: order a crowning cutter
and several pilots and fix the damn thing myself. I have to tell y'all,
though: such chopping on a brand-new $700 rifle is not exactly what I had
in mind when I bought this thing. For this much trouble and money I could
have custom-built a damn rifle to my own spec on either a Howa or Winchester
action in a McMIllan stock and with a "brand-name" barrel. This is certainly
what I will do next time, as my confidence in Remington is about shot.
-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
CONTACT GOVERNOR DAVIS AND ASK HIM TO VETO SB23 AND AB202 TODAY!
TEL: (916)445-2841 OR FAX: (916)445-4633. THIS IS THE AR'S LAST STAND IN
CALIFORNIA! JOIN ME, WON'T YOU?
There's not much the factory will do, so do it your self, or have
a good 'smith do it.
Pablito.
A year or so ago I pulled several quotes from a long range email
list concerning Remington barrels. This was posted in May 1998 but bears
repeating every so often. Hope Maurius doesn't mind the addition bandwidth.
----------------------
----------------------
To him, the barrel he was making had no more significance that any
other widget, and the quality of the product reflected his (and his team's)
lack of understanding and enthusiasm about guns in general and rifle barrels
in particular. Some of his comments still reverberate in my mind when this
subject comes up...
----------------------
----------------------
----------------------
----------------------
-Tom S.
That's all the bad news for now.
I wouldn't think twice about hunting any thing with a with a black
powder rifle, and correct bullet design, but I sure would feel better about
hunting dangerous game if there was someone backing me up with a 416 rigby
mag!!!!
....................BigGunn......................
Gentlemen, don't forget the recent post on cold bore shooting. This
has the Bolt concerned that he isn't practicing properly. This will lead
to more questions and I know you don't want that LOL.
Pat
1: Does a bipod really help with placing accurate shots at long ranges?
2: What would you say is the max effective range on a 7mm remmington
mag?
3: Does the .357sig really require special dies to reload, or can
you use .357 and .40 dies and fudge it?
Thanx for the time and the info.
Quickbow
I finally got to examine a Winchester M-70 Sharpshooter yesterday.
An older gent was walking around with one at a local gun show. I could
have bought the whole thing including a Burris 12x scope for 500 bucks.
He said he never shot it. I guess it is just a taste thing but I dont like
the white stainless barrel on a otherwise matte black rifle.
To Bolt: RE: CBS Go to the articles and commentary section and read
an article by Scott on "Rifle testing for dummies" I think he had you in
mind when he wrote it. :) It is a good article.
To Pat, Joey Garza rifle. That is what I thought it might be also.
I think the rifle did not exist until several years after this movie's
time frame was supposed to depict though.
The "C" in "CMP" marked on Colt barrels stands for Colt, not Chrome.
You will notice Bushmaster barrels are stamped "BMP", the B of course for
Bushmaster, the M for magnetic partical inspection (Magnaflux) and P for
proofed. True, Colt has stopped chroming some of its civilian barrels in
the last few years. Colts "Match" barrels are also not chromed.
Quickbow
Mike S.
To the best of my knowledge the C (for chrome) has been there since
1967, as that is when Colt first started chrome plating chambers. A short
time later the bore was plated too. I believe, but have no proof that all
civilian chroming stopped in the fall of 1998. Colt always makes "running
changes". So there are always many transitional models each time a production
change is made. I havent' seen any late production, but would think that
the markings have, or will be changed.
I have no idea what the "B" stands for on Bushmasters. If it does
indeed stand for Bushmaster then that is great. All rifle barrels should
be traceable. I know that Wilson has always stamped a "W" on their barrels.
I'm looking at page 24 of document MIL-R-63997B (AR). This particular
section deals with the required inspection methods of various rifle parts.
MILITARY SPECIFICATION
DEFECT NO. 71. Barrel Assembly. Missing proof marks, magnetic particle
stamp and chrome chamber marking.
I have been told by a very reliable source that the stamping info
is also on the Colt blueprints.
That's all for now.
Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
Recently linked to a Congressional webpage through Firearms Tactical
website. Seems some Congressional folks were briefed on the capabilities
of the .50, and the thought of API rounds getting into the hands of civilians
gives them the willies. Good reading at http://www.house.gov/waxman/50/video/video.html
Jon Custis
<jacustis@aol.com>
I called Brownells, and they say they don't have 30mm Posi-align
"Zee" rings. They have standard 30mm Zee rings (without the inserts), and
Posi-align (with inserts) 30mm in standard configuration (not Weaver style)...
but not what "we" would be looking for.
If anyone has a set of Posi-align (with inserts), 30mm, Weaver style
Zee rings... please let me know where you got them, and what the stock
number is.
Burris still says... "Next year".
Pablito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
I no longer make floating AR-SR tubes, but have used several over
the years. My choice, of those I've seen, is the ArmaLite. Easy to fit,
and always straight enough give the barrel enough clearance (some don't).
Larry,
Sounds to me like you have a usable twist on your 7MM. Don't let
theory or fact scare you away from trying the light bullets in a fast twist.
At practical ranges (for the particular bullet) you may NEVER experience
a problem.
Several years ago I fitted two 7-08 Kriegers for highpower competitor,
Jack McCann. One with a 9" twist and the other an 8" twist. The 9" twist
was returned for sale to someone needing a slower twist. The heaviest intended
bullet, as I recall, was the 168 Sierra. I think a lighter bullet was to
be used for the "shorts".
There is a bit of a chuckle here. Mr. McCann is now shooting an AR
match rifle across the course in .223. I doubt there is enough money around
to purchase that rifle, but the 7MM (pre-64 & blank) barrels are here
and for sale.
Ron N.,
I checked the CMP marked (non-plated)AR barrel this morning. It was
built in 1995. Although I've handled many of these barrels, I've not payed
a lot of attention to them. Also, I checked a new HB take-off Bushmaster
barrel that I got in a trade with Ol' Dawg. It is marked BMP (FWIW) and
is chrome plated. Not sure where any of this leaves us, but normally the
chrome plated wonders don't shoot too well. While saying that they don't
shoot too well, I must add that I know several competitors that have made
high master and distinguished with the plated AR's in SR competition. Chrome
plated barrel or no, they still shot better (and were easier to handle)
than 90% of the M-14/M1-A's. This statement may not set well with the M1A
owners, but I'm well satisfied with that opinion.
Running for cover..........
We need higher taxes on private airplanes...
... just as a start. And don't laugh, I could stand on the floor
of congress, and justify every one of these...
... to a Democrat
Pablito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Bolt,
You out there man?
Did your instructor indicate the condition that you should leave
your barrel in after a day at the range? Example; cleaned oiled and dry
patched, cleaned but not oiled, etc. It appears that this may make a difference
in loading and going in a hurry without having to worry about the barrel
condition. This same concept would hold true for those deer hunting days
where you get in the woods late and can't have a fouling shot.
Well, the decision on the reloader is made. The concensus(sp?) opinion
from this and other sites is Dillon equipment and Redding dies. Now must
wait for the money tree to bloom again as that equip is fairly more expensive
than the RCBS. Although the 550B is a progressive, I have rave reviews
that it performs just as accuratly as a single stage. Me thinks an electronic
scale is not worth the expense due to it's persnikitiness with varying
ambient conditions and cats walking on them. Must read more and find a
good video to help with the learning curve.
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
Q for any other 'smiths out there: I note that Brownells no longer
carries the liquid release agent (like RAM 220) they use to sell. I was
going to try a can of their spray stuff this time. Any opinions of alternatives
that anybody cares to offer?
Thanks to everyone for their advice.
-Tom
Try the local fiberglass supply house or a boat builder for the liquid
mold release that is sprayed into hull molds before gel-coating. A boat
builder is your most likely source for a small amount. The paste wax mold
release may be another choice.
From South of Wacahoota where the men are men. The women are men.
And the sheep are nervous.
Roger
Roger-90th OMMS <R.va@worldnet.att.net>
Feeling like a dumb-ass
Cheers.
Pablito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Check out LEE Precision .357SIG dies. MidwayUSA has 'em for about
$25/set.
I cannot remember the brand but there is a product that you can clamp
onto the tube of your scope which has a bubble level in it - to detect
rifle cant. I believe that it's desinged to not mar the finish of the scope.
I have a Springfield Armory Gov't Model scope with the level built internally.
Very slick!
I understand that longer is more accurate, in barrels. Depending
on the velocity you will gain about 1/2 of one percent velocity per inch
of barrel length.
Semper Fi!
Quickbow hates dentists
Just use regular paste car wax. Works fine and is very thin. Follow
directions on can.
Re: Colt AR-15 markings
>Mike S.
USGI prints. Dont have them handy, but it states that the first initial
is the makers mark, C for Colt, that the M stands for magnetic particle
inspection and the P is for
>To the best of my knowledge the C (for chrome) has been there since
>1967, as that is when Colt first started
No, they havent, that I have seen. They are still "C MP"
>I have no idea what the "B" stands for on Bushmasters. If it does
>indeed stand for Bushmaster then that is great.
Right, the first letter is the manufacturer. And FN made barrels
are "F MP" as they should be.
>I'm looking at page 24 of document MIL-R-63997B (AR). This particular
>section deals with the required
>MILITARY SPECIFICATION
>DEFECT NO. 71. Barrel Assembly. Missing proof marks, magnetic >particle
stamp and chrome chamber marking.
Perhaps there is a chrome chamber stamp, but I dont think it is the
"C" in "C MP". I dont have any Colt barrels around to look for other marks.
>I have been told by a very reliable source that the stamping info
is >also on the Colt blueprints.
It is. I don't have them in front of me, but to the best I can remember,
the first marking is for the manufacturer, thus Colt is C, FN is F, Bushmaster
is B, Wilson is W, etc. I will forward this to someone I know who knows
AR ins side and out from working at an AR manufacturer. Will keep you posted.
mike S <mws@ecom.net>
I went to get a Rem 700 VS-SF(varmint synthetic stainless fluted)
today. ALL OUT, Remington discontinued them. I knew this, but I figured
there would be some in the pipeline. Is it worth getting a rifle in stainless?
Can any of you keen reloaders tell me what makes of dies fit a Dillon
RL550b press? (cals .308 & .338 Lapua).
All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand.
The earlybird gets the worm,but the second mouse gets the cheese.
(one for Pablito) Whats the speed of dark?
.
Dillon has dies available in their catalog, Blue Press. They run
about $49 for reg steel ones, and more for carbide. Check em out at www.dillonprecision.com.
Also I beleive Redding dies work, also available from Dillon.
Also, anyone know how good the quality of teh scopes that come on
the Savage package guns are? I know they are 3-9x32, and from what I have
seen, the image through them is pretty crisp.
Quickbow
Just got some Lapua .30 B416 200gr subsonic bullet's to play with(reload),code
4PL7060, and some .30 GB432 scenar 185gr.Will try out in suppressed Win
M-70 .308,last time I tired to make subsonic load's for it with Hornady
168gr BTHP they sounded like a air rifle,but they did not stabilise,at
20yds they were keyholing.Maybe the B416 will stabilise,they look like
a BT version of a cast bullet,with what look's like lube grooves around
the middle,but are a FMJ bullet,just like Trigger50 described.Will not
try the scenar in the M-70,but will try in the TRG-21 in both subsonic
and fullhouse loads,should be fun.
Later Chris
With crawling around on the ground and the elements in mind stainless
has it's advantages. As for the reflectivity issue, there are one or two
(mabye even more) custom finishes available to coat stainless. Many of
which can me had in matte black and olive drab. The names and companies
escape me at the moment.
I'm waiting to feast my eyes on the new composite barreled 700 VS.
I just might take one in .308. Of course I'll bring along a friend who
is a gunsmith to pick it over with a fine toothed micromenter err comb.
The Muzzle of the barrel is polished (why polished?) SS as well as the
chamber/throat area. A thin band of SS pokes throught near the reciever
and what appears to be an 1/4" inch of SS at the muzzle as viewed from
the side. The crown end view seems to resemble a mirrior far to well for
my tastes as well. I may be looking at geting a finish put over these areas.
I do think that composite barrel technology is going to be here to stay.
Stiff, light and major advantages in the area of heat disipation. It may
seem goofy to some now but so did semi-automatic pistols way back when
in 1909 when J. M. Browning was tinkering with his prototypes for the 1911.
How many beat cops, FBI, DEA, Spooks (Spys), Soldiers etc do you see with
"wheel guns" ? How many have plastic (oops polymer frames)?
Light guns may recoil more but which is going to be harder on you-
1. You hike 18 miles trying to be quiet in broken terrain with a heavy
ruck and a 9# rifle even with a tapered bull barrel (or 8-1/2 fluted)then
crawl for 6hrs on your belly at a rate which makes a three-toed sloth look
as fast as bruce lee and follow it up by making 1S. 'fer' 1k. 2. Now try
that whole scenario except with the non tapered composite barreled rifle
weighing in at 7-7/8 #
Incidently RE Remington- I worked in firearms sales for three years-
I changed jobs a year ago. I did notice more firearms falling into our
Remington whoops file, however, I did still see more problems with other
lines in the same price range. We used to only see one or two rem mistakes
per season. It eventually changed to ten. It is important to remember that
we sold about 200 Rem 700's for every 40 of all other rifle brands combined.
From a percentage of firearms sold that had mistakes stand point it still
was the most solid line a working person can afford.
I have been drooling over a composite barreled 10-22 for months,
but the $$ is prohibitive so far. I already have a perfectly OK .22, which
I cant get myself to sell.
Krister
Redfield was bought by one of the other companies, though which escapes
me at the momnet (Brown? Blount?) so the Redfield name and product line
(scope rings, bases, etc.) should still be available. The story I heard
was that Redfield had been dumping all of its toxic waste materials (cleaners,
solvents, etc.) out behind the building for years, and the property next
door sold to someone. The new owner did a site assessment, discovered the
contaminants, and tracked them back to Redfield. The clean-up costs was
going to cost Redfield more than the company was worth, so they closed
thier doors. All the toolings, rights to the Redfield name, etc., were
sold off. I think it was Blount, but I'm not sure, that bought it.
======================================================
Matt:
======================================================
Does anyone have a number or some contact information about Baer
tapered bases?
Thanks,
Leslie Bright <lbright@utk.edu>
I come to you from Guns. com, another fine page.
R.D. Jones
Mike S.
I have a couple of Colt barrels. The old 1981 SP1 is marked C MP
and CHROME BORE.
A later 1988 HBAR just has the C MP marking.
Is there a easy way to tell the chromes from non-chromes? I do have
a loupe to observe the "end" material if needed.
Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
Pablito
ADL=magazine in stock, load and empty from the top
>IS IT EASIER TO CHANGE STOCKS OR BARRELS????
>better just to try and get a police model for more $ in blued
I like my Police, however I'd recomend looking around for a varmet
with syntheticstock. Even if it has to be shipped to a local FFL it still
will be cheaper.
Jim <hampshire@mediacen.navy.mil>
I would like to remove the mounting spigot from the palm stop and
instal it into the end of my rifle stock (like the original Parker Hale).
Any hints, etc.? What is the best way to drill the hole, and what
epoxy would work best? I have a Remington 700P DM.
Jim <hampshire@mediacen.navy.mil>
Botach.com having a hell of a sale. 15% off most everything on site.
Aimpoint COMP M XD $355x85%= $301. Etc.
Jim <hampshire@mediacen.navy.mil>
1.-5. June, Versailles, France, European Cup 300m free rifle 1/1
match:
Winner: Geir Magne Rolland, Norway: 1180points out of 1200 possible!!
To put things into perpective:
120shots, 40 prone, 40 kneeleng and 40 standing unsupported with
sling.
Target: 300m UIT, 10X is 10cm/4" at 300m/330yds.
Rifle: UIT free rifle with "open" sights. (no optics)
Any takers with a scoped sniperrifle? :-)
Have a nice day!
TorF <tor.fleime@aftenposten.no>
For all those that slept that day in 3rd grade. The Revolution "started"
when the colonial Militia (upstanding armed citizens, NOT a "national guard"
or "regular army") stood up to the British that were marhing to seize the
armory at Concord. The milita stopped them at Lexington green.. this was
where "the shot heard round the world" happened.. Also "we" were ALWAYS
Americans, at that point we were Americans, British Colonial Citizens under
British Colonial rule. This was the same status as Indians (India) they
were "British subjects" under the rule of colonial governors and subject
to British law. Overall the British generally considered "colonists" second
class compared to "real British" citizens. Also remember that even as the
Revolution started, there was NOT overwhelming support from the American
population as a whole, and it wasn't until much later in the war that many
people wanted to break from Britan. Even noteable such as Jefferson and
Patrick Henry, struggled with the decision and probably would have stayd
with the status quo much longer had it not been for Lexington. Also remeber
that overall we lost FAR MORE BATTLES than we won during the Revolution.
It was not until late in the war that things started to turn around, and
until after B. Franklin was able to ink an alliance w/ France the we really
started to be a country, as opposed to an uprising... Just something to
think about.
Now the question... between the Savage 110fp in 308 and the PSS..
any overwhelming benefits to the Rem???
Thanks!
seanc <casler@concorde.com>
Tom,
Dave J,
Chris: Let me know what loads you'll use for the 185 gr Scenar's.
They are my standard bullet, along with the 167 gr and I'd like to see
what load you use for both the sub-sonic and the full-blown load.
Daniel: On living somewhere else; I realise that it's going to be
quite lame after talking to all these American guys, but gun-laws in the
Netherlands are quite more liberal then they are at your place. Our ranges
(for civilians that is) are somewhat shorter though. 500m max is what you
can expect. The rest is reserved for civilian use. You can always join
the ERA though and clock up some longer shoots. We can have assault-rifles
and hand-guns (even exotic ones like the SIG 550 Commando). And it's only
a short trip across the pond to your cherished homeland. But, best of all,
WE HAVE FOAM ON OUR BEERS!!!!!
L8er!
Stefan
Stefan <stefan@sniperhide.com>
Stefan
MikeM/Undude
Terry W. Crihfield <tcrihfield@east.dolir.state.mo.us>
Sean
A 200km march in 4 days?I better get in shape.
P.S We have foam on our beers!(You just need to shake them a bit)
There's a picture of the rifle at: http://www.jaktjournalen.se/Tester/tester.htm
Lynx 94
TorF
TorF <tor.fleime@aftenposten.no>
Scott Hannah
Scott Hannah <hannah@slip.net>
Wouldn't the porting really upset the accuracy?
I don't know what the ported model looks like so I don't know how
the port(s) is/are arranged. I would assume that they would upset accuracy
quite a bit but do not know. I think that the porting would upset airflow
enough that it might upset the bullet's path at the end of the barrel which,
if not at close range, would certainly become difficult to predict at long
ranges...right?
If the barrel is supposed to be 26" and the powder completes its
burn before that (where the porting is located), would the porting make
any difference except for felt recoil?
Since this is basically the gun that i want except for the fluting
and porting, I might just change out the barrel to a Hart or other aftermarket
barrel.
Contact me in the next few weeks if you plan to attend. Thanks.
Keep up the great work!
Sincerely,
Rex Bryant
Michael <mikewood_@excite.com>
The accelerators were not very accurate, were very expensive, and
the philosophy behind them was questionable... that you could have a .308
or .30-30 big game rifle, and a varmint rifle at the same time... but the
zero was so far off, that the shooter had a usable range of maybe 50-75
yards to hit the "varmints", before it had to be re-zeroed, which wasn't
practical... and both cartridges have light bullet loads for varmints that
are effective to about 150 yds... maybe 200 on 'yotes.
Pablito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Bruce Hilsabeck <bruceh@ionet.net>
Recovering from "recto-cranial impaction"
Sarge
Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
So can anyone tell me how to fool infrared and thermal imaging?
Look forward to your reply.
the sniping man <averageguy_nextdoora@yahoo.com>
Well, if you buy the Remington you can hold your head up and walk
in the sunlight; you can kick Savage owners anytime you walk by them on
the range and you can require them to perform menial tasks for you just
to remind them of how stupid they were for purchasing a rifle that's only
good for shooting groups of .3 to .4 inches for the exhorbitant sum of
$368 plus tax.
Just kidding. I used to own a 700 a long time ago but I had to sell
it to pay the rent. Poor planning.
Just dont put your address as Littleton, Colorado.
Tony
I think that by looking at all your posts so far I have come to the
conclusion that the Rem PSS, while having an excellent reputation overall,
the quality seems to be inconsistant as of late and the CS at REM seems
to be far from stellar. So... That said, I am probably going to opt for
the SAVAGE TACTICAL in 308... Hell, for the money I would have spent on
the REM, I might by two!!!!
I was told also by a very reliable source that the FBI is switching
over to the 110fp OVER the REMINGTONS, as their standard "counter-sniper"
weapon. The reasons are that they are far less expensive and they shoot
better out of the box...
And finally... any body have any input on the TASCO SNIPER scopes?
Or the STEYR TACTICAL HB (the replacement to the SSG)?
SEANC <casler@concorde.com>
Pablito: On the accelerators, your experience is similar to mine.
Years ago we shot up a bunch of those on coyotes, and, they were not particularly
accurate, but 200y was about all the range we had at night anyway. Once
hit, they did go down:) The Feds did, at one point, have their shorts in
a knot over them...fearing, I suppose, that gangsters would start using
those readily available 30-06 semi-auto handguns in 7Eleven holdups. As
a friend once said "we can pay them, we just can't make them think".
Very stabile, and no alignment problems.
Pablito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
YOU WILL BECOME A FELON AS OF JANUARY 1ST 2000
if you own so much as a Ruger 10/22 (or any rifle that can accept
a "hi-cap" magazine). How's that for a great way to start the new millenium?
Please check the website below for more info -- there is a petition drive
about to start which would put SB23 on the ballot -- at least we would
get the chance to vote it down. Also some very interesting (but not surprising)
stat's regarding the results of Australia's gun control effort.
http://www.vetothegovernor.org/index.html
I shot the the HS HTR and it keeps the 168's in one hole and velocity
is 2750 fps. I mean it keeps the Winchester and Federal Loads in one hole.
Great rifle
I can't wait until the rifles break and and shoot themselves. That
is the only way to really improve.
I allso received a Nikon Laser Range Finder. The 800 meter model.
I will do some testing and get back to you
Undude/Mike
MikeM. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
There might be a few AR-15 shooters that think they can hold with
you at 600 yards. Make them prove it!
Daniel <awhiting@idirect.com>
JFD
Well, I don't think you see... so think about this. This system wouldn't
have changed anything, or made them any more accurate.
First... The sabot is not, inherently, an accurate device to start
with. Remington thought they could "tap" a (non-existing) phantom market
of big game hunters that wanted to shoot woodchucks with their 30-30 and
308 hunting rifles... a very shaky premise, if you know any varmint hunters.
If you understand business, then you know that if you go into a risky
venture, you do it with the least expenditure of R&D and tooling as
possible. The accelerators were made with existing bullets that were already
in production... so the design of a new bullet would be out of the question,
economically. All they needed to have made was the plastic cups, and that
was done outside, so no tooling. They simply bought the cups, and loaded
the existing bullets on existing
Technically, there was no need to make a skirted bullet, as the purpose
of the skirt on the tank darts is to move the center of aerodynamic drag
to the back of the dart, so it flies forward, and doesn't tumble... the
tank guns are smooth bore... no rifling. But the guns Remington was making
the accelerators for were all rifled... no smooth bore 308's!... so there
is no need to put skirts, or fins or anything else on them. They just weren't
accurate enough!
The real purpose of sabots is to shoot a bullet to a higher velocity
than normally possible.
The Navy built high velocity impact study guns that shot ½
ounce bullets at 25,000 fps (Yes, twenty five thousand feet per second!!)...
and did it with sabots.
There was no reason for Remington to pursue a different design, it
wouldn't have helped... it was a bad idea, for a non-existent market.
If you have the "HOTS" for sabots, there are makers of kits, with
loading instruction around... no I don't have the names, but I have seen
them on the web.
No more on sabots!!
Pablito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
I have a set on a 700. They do indeed move your POA. I can't resist
telling you they don't make for Savages. Whoops, I just read all the words.
It seems they do. They do arrive in a nice ginchy matte black oxide looking
finish. (The bases) Well, dammit, how is your rifle? Shot it yet? I forget,
do you roll your own ammo? Cheers.
Jim Liles <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
Have you read John Feamster's book "Black Magic" or Glen Zediker's
"The Competitive AR15"? These debunk the myth around the superiority of
any other rifle system. Sure, maybe you shoot your M1A better than you
do another rifle. But the majority of the top shooters are using the mouse
gun, and it is WAY better for most people. Less expensive, less recoil,
and less maintenance, and at least as accurate. And by the way, if Mr.
Wylde is out there, perhaps you can comment on the long range potential
of the .223 vs. .308 at 600 yards, and even farther.
Fight the good fight. Join the pro-gun orgs and bring your non-shooting
friends to the range and spread the gospel. Let's stop preaching to the
choir and turn our efforts to the heretics. The USA used to be the land
of the free and the home of the brave. God help us if that sentiment has
been lost by the majority.
Thanks for the contact info for tapered bases!
Update (for the moment):
I found a Leupold scope for my Savage 110FLP on the web, and with
a good bit of sweet-talking, it shortly will be in route to me. It's a
Vari-X III 3.5-10x40mm Tactical; I wanted the M3 and mil-dots, but the
price bump was more that the wallet would allow at the moment - I can get
Premier to install the dots later. I should have it next week (Thanks Ray!).
I've also got a set of 1" Burris Signature Zee rings, matte, medium
height, enroute to the local gunshop.
After ordering the rings and scope for the rifle, I wouldn't have
any $$ for ammo anytime soon if I ordered the Baer base. :-( So I picked
up a set of Weaver mounts for the time being, and got them on last night.
Hey, it's not like I'm out anything when I replace 'em shortly, I'll at
least get the barrel broken in and get used to the scope in the meantime.
Jim - I don't reload (yet!). Got a feeling it won't be long, though...
;-) So for the meantime, I'm having to locate ammo. I'd rather get it by
the case once I can afford to, because I know it'd be more cost-effective.
For the time being, however, shopping around helps a bit. For example,
the good-ol' local gun shop has Federal 168 gr match ammo at $25/box, whereas
the local mega-sporting store has it at $17/box; best I've seen on-line
for Federal (yet!) is $19/box. No one has 175 gr around here that I can
find; will have to order some online.
There's a company in Georgia, Georgia
Arms, that reloads ammo: they have 168 gr. match at $160/500 rounds;
might be a way to amass a lot of brass fast. Anyone have personal experiences
with them?
Once the scope and rings arrive, I'll mount them and get my rear-end
to a range with a stack of my cleaners and patches. Another thing on my
immediate shopping list is a 1 piece rod and a bore-guide. After I get
the barrel initially broken in, scope adjusted, etc., then I'll turn to
my "to-do" list. Currently it is, in rough order:
1) Get/install a replacement trigger.
I also have on another list of things to accumulate as quickly as
I can: one of MikeM's slings, a TGRT-LLP data book, a bipod (I abhore the
things, but want to have one just so I can wave it at people who ask where
mine's at; I'd rather use an ass-pack myself), scope hood, and anything
else that floats my boat.
And that's all the news on my end.
L8R, all!
Leslie Bright <lbright@utk.edu>
al o.
Ok,how can I dye marine tex brown?
Dave Jones-- Your question on rangefinders: My Weaver 650 works great
except when it counts-- I swear it knows somehow. Going down the road,
it'll range the semi ahead of me, through a rained-up windshield, but out
in the field, sick it on a large, reflective, non-moving target and it
clams up (much of the time, not always). It's great when it works but damned
finicky.
B Rogers
The Western states have a problem with people coming out and punching
holes in elk at long range, even the fifty cal boys, and not having them
go down.
Pat
Pat
IF any of you Gents might have a few moments
Greg <realmcoy@aa.net>
armorer <bdl action@aol.com>
Greg... get your self a good glass bedding kit, and do it your self,
and save $250-350, and learn something at the same time... you sould be
able to get at least .5-.75" with the factory barrel, probably better.
Al.O... Spoke to Darrell on 7/4/99, and he is in the process of moving...
found a ewe that went and stole his heart... (going to KS for LE work)
so your scope may be in limbo. I switched my SMTC course to Sept... let
me know what you think of yours.
Pablito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
The check is in the mail to the Rod man for the match. But, don't
start shaking in your booties yet. The hospital is freaking over the KYJelly
thing and are canceling vacations right and left. If I get cancelled, do
I still get a shirt?
Al O., girlfriend is moving to Hickory this week. Got any good slutty
sheep left in your stable?
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
Seriously, when the media gets a burr up their collective butts,
laws get changed for the WORST. Law based on emotion is bad law. Freedoms
die and talking head pontificate about how they helped save us from ourselves.
We pilots once had a scare when some college kid submitted an idea to require
all pilots to hold an IFR certification just to fly at night. This would
have cost a lot of money and served no one and stifled private aviation.
Thankfully the FAA killed the idea, but only because there was no media
pressure behind it. Now that a "name" has managed to off himself due to
bad decision making, you can expect to see some sort legal idiodecy arise
out of it and flight requirements become more restrictive. You think you
have hassles and heart burn in the gun world? Try being a pilot. If you
have all the regulations under one roof, you'd not need to buy toilet paper
for the rest of your life!
Steve <nato@bright.net>
Surprise... it's that very same group of experts that have generated
all the solutions to gun crime!
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Steve <nato@bright.net>
Not much to say about the .223 to 1K that has not already been well
worked over on this and other boards.
The .223, with 62 grain ball or 80 grain VLD's, makes a good paper
punch to 1K.
The .223 with 80's is a little less wind sensitive than the .308
with 155's. In shoulder-to-shoulder competition last September, the comparison
between 155 and 175 (Sierra) showed the 175 to be a bit behind the 155
at 1K. This was a bit of surprise, but at the same time was not a very
scientific test.
I see it to be a matter of choice, and use. If I were to be shooting
through buildings and trees, I'd choose the .308. If punching paper, I'd
choose the .223.
As to the use of M1A or AR-15 SR's, my choice would be the latter
for target use. I've owned several M1A's and shot many others. Not to say
that the M1A is not as accurate, but I've yet to see it. As to use at long
range(beyond 600Y), between one SR and the other, again a matter of choice.
Without some minor modification to the AR, the M1A would be the more convenient
of the two, unless the AR was long-range dedicated. Another thing that
might enter the equation (especially for antiques like myself) would be
sight radius between the two SR's.
The answer to the question of which SR is best for competitive purposes
is in front of us all......What are the services using to remain competitive?
Transition wasn't a problem either. Civilians developed the new baby. All
the military needed to do was throw money at powder and bullets.
Bill Wylde <k9wxr@rr1.net>
Out.
I’d have to second Bill’s assessment. The AR does a very credible
job at competition. Beyond the shorter sight radius, which can be a problem
for us over 35 types, it is just an excellent option for Service Rifle
competition. With such a low recoil it allows newbies to get into the game
quickly and confidently (a good thing if we expect to keep the match alive
and healthy), it allows more women to compete (a really good thing since
half the shooters out there have a certain special someone controlling
their pocket book via the "bed vote"…ahem…) and it allows pros to become
even better since it is so easily controlled. I never have a problem getting
a female to shoot an AR. But given a .308 they sometimes balk after the
first few rounds depending on their structure.
This is not to take away from the M1A so please guys, lets not get
into that old battle again. I think we are simply stating that for punching
the paper for record, the AR really has a lot going for it. It is easily
accurized. It is affordable to own, shoot and maintain when compared to
a full blown Super Match. It has a ton of options which allow you to tailor
it for your needs and budget. And of course there is the fact that it IS
modeled after the current service rifle of the US armed forces, so you
are actually using what the regular troops have to use, if you care about
such things. The record is building every year. The rifle is proving itself
as an excellent competitor.
By the way, has anyone tried the new Sierra Match King yet? I just
saw something in an add about a 75 grain MK. Heck, I might just get a few
more years outta this here 1:9 tube!
Have a good weekend. Looks like a perfect time to practice your "Mirage"
shooting! Here in PA they are calling for 105 tomorrow. Can you say "aim
for the BOUNCING BALL?"
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
you don't shoot people,you shoot the enemy.
death to he reds.
Captain Chronic <can\t@give.mine>
Now you know that I spend more time in the air flying back &
forth all around this wonderful country of ours out prowling. I guess some
day I'll get married, have some little sheep of my own & painting the
house. But for now, dude!!!!
To all,
Pablito,
Ok, I gotta run now. Come on guys. Someone talk to me here.
D. West <westforce@juno.com>
I put a post up on this web site a few weeks ago regarding the Tasco
SS10X42 scopes to which no one responded. According to Tasco's web site
the distance between dots on these scopes at 100 yards is 6.6". This would
mean it's not a true mil-dot reticle and useless with a standard mil-dot
range card.
Who would want a scope that isn't even calibrated properly? Could
you imagine telling your buddies at the range that in YOUR scope that target
is three mils when in their Leopolds it's 6 mils? Embarrasing!
Does anyone out there actually own one of these? IS this true or
is Tasco's web site wrong.
X-Ring where are you? Did you check this out when you did your articles?
Just had conversation with local gunsmith about shooting in hot weather.
He said if you don't have to don't. I asked what if you were in a combat
situation and you had to. He asked if was in a combat situation.
I guess it boiled down to if you don't have to shoot when its 110,
don't. If you have to, do. Why take the chance on ruining your barrel and
chamber?
Does this make sense to anyone?
I want to thank everyone that helped me with a tough situation the
last few days. Thanks to all and I am sorry some things worked out the
way they did. I hope no one harbors any bad feelings. The sling business
will go on and look for me to do some teaching in New Mexico in the spring.
I have been playing with the new Nikon 800 meter range finder. I
like this and cant wait to field test it. It is the size of a pair of mini
binoculars
JR, I think I found the reason the rifle was not shooting the 175's.
The stock had a high spot in the bbl channel. I was pulling down harder
on the 175's than the 168's and causing it to touch. I sanded out the channel
and will test next week, but it was touching in just the right spot to
cause the point of impact I was seeing.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
The only reason I can think for not shooting in the heat is because
of saftey reasons regarding your health, not the weapon. I would hope that
any rifle that could even pretend to be a sniper rifle or an assault rifle
could handle a flux in temperature. As the others have pointed out, the
temperature in the chamber's hotter than anything you can put it through
on the outside.
On the firing point, though, sweaty hands and sweat in your eyes
can possibly create a potentially dangerous situation if the shhoter isn't
cautious.
But I still think the biggest deal is that one could get dehydrated,
have a heat stroke, or much more likely have heat exhaustion. ESPECIALLY
if you're recovering from a recent illness. (How long have you been feeling
better?)
And as also pointed out, it's good to have a familiarity with shooting
in different environments.
So go forth and shoot, but keep pumping those fluids and be cautious
(you always are when shooting, aren't you?)
Leslie
>
>YOU ALL GO OUT AND ENJOY KILLING CHILDREN!!!!!!!
>
>GUNS ARE FOR SAD PSHCOTIC PATETIC IDIOTS!!!!!!!
>
>I HOPE WE CAN BAN ALL GUNS!!!!!!
>
>UP YOUS@!!!!!!!!!!!
>FUCK YOU ALL PSHCO"S
>YOU ARE ALL, MENTLE, AND ENJOY SHOOTING. - Friday, July 16, 1999
at 22:28:04 (ZULU)
Quantico, VA, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 13:28:33 (ZULU)
Morning all
I need some help. I'm spending so much time in front of the Rock
Chucker that my wife thinks I've moved to the garage. Any advice about
which turret loader to buy would be appreciated. I'm loading 5.56, 308,
9mm and 30-06.
John
John <jfhavemann@msn.com>
Taylor Ridge, Illinois, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 14:36:40
(ZULU)
Mr. Bolt: You are absolutely correct about the Colt Tactical Elite.
There were only 1000 made and they are extremely accurate. The scope which
they provide is a piece of shit (and even that is too kind) but the rifle
is top shelf. My serial number is 856. I replaced the scope with two sighting
devices, a LOOOO-pold MK3 LR with Badger ORdnance Extra high rings and
also a Ultra Dot sighting device also with Badger Ord extra high rings.
You need the extra highs unless your head is pancake flat. It is exceptionally
accurate with the 75 Hornady and 80 grain Sierra MKs. As you can tell I've
got well over 2 grand wrapped up in the rifle but it is one of the most
accurate 223 I've ever shot. If you can still find one, it is well worth
the cost. Oh by the way it does have a 1 in 8 inch twist. It is written
right on the fat 20 inch tube. 68 grain Hornady moly bullets are the best
bullet I have found for it though.
Al OStapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Tactical Elite City in , Ohio, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at
15:05:33 (ZULU)
DT, regarding the Erma rifle and its claim to fame, (or maybe infamy),
how about the $8,000 (right class, as I saw it in GunList, eight thousand
bucks) price tag? That, and the accompanying photo of a trade show booth
where allegedly Mr. Kalashnikov was nearby. "Dah, we can bankrupt Amerikan
shooters if all buy thees rifle..."
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Livermore, CA, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 15:11:25 (ZULU)
DITO, What Major Hunter, said:
First Sargent E. C. Humphreys US ARMY <E8TOP@hotmail.com>
Fort DIX, New Jersey, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 15:37:35
(ZULU)
A question to all.
Remington detachable magazines.
I have tried two of these magazines and they both will not push
the third round up into place so it will feed. The fourth, second, and
first rounds feed fine, just the third round will not feed and ties the
rifle up. Is this a common failing with these magazines? Is there a fix
for this problem?
Thanks in advance.
Jerry Rice <nor-cal@worldnet.att.net>
American Canyon, CA, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 15:44:39 (ZULU)
Jerry,
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 16:17:38 (ZULU)
I got to tell you guys I'm having the time of my life down here in
Dover Foxcroft, Maine this weekend attending the Hiram Maxim Society Military
Shoot & Expo.
Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 16:49:16 (ZULU)
Jake, the Pig simple lapping procedure follows:
or beg a dollop of valve grinding compound. If you can mount a scope,
you should be able to figure out the rest. After lapping, Be sure you clean
up well. The rifle, mounts, etc..., or you might lap your bore unintentionally.
world of .308.
God, I hope no one tells him about Berger bullets. He'll
never be able to spring for a Remington.
Poortland, Ore., USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 18:30:37 (ZULU)
Major Kim Hunter.
CWO2 USMC (ret)
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 19:43:36 (ZULU)
Bolt and Bill W.
Ron N.
Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 19:51:41 (ZULU)
Jim L., thanks for input on lapping.
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 20:42:13 (ZULU)
Well, farted around all morning and didn't make it to the range. Went
to the local weapons of mass destruction dealer (gun shop) and drueled
over a couple of goodies. Looked over the RCBS again and now looking at
the Dillon again. Gonna get one or the other tomorrow. To much brass hanging
around not to reload. Plus it looks like the ammo prices went up when the
gun manufacturers increased their prices.
223 from the Colts
270 Sedero
7mm mag Sendero
7mm08 Model 7
444 Marlin
44mag Redhowk
357 Model 19
300mag Sendero
and favorite tactical loads for the following:
223
308 PSS
7mm mag
300mag
If anyone has some time or can lead me in the right direction on
the above it sure would save the rookie (definite reloading rookie) some
time. It appears that there are so many reloading manuals out there that
I'm going to spend all my time reading instead of reloading!!!!
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 22:00:20 (ZULU)
Does anybody have that reatrd who posted all that crap about snipers
being baby killers and stuff's email? I would like to give him a piece
of my mind.
TonyD
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 22:26:43 (ZULU)
Spoke with Leupold's tech services folks on Fri. They'll change
your M3 knobs to M1 knobs for $116 plus freight. The woman I spoke with
says it takes 'em about a week. You can find the phone # on their site,
I'm sure. Here is the solution to your M3 knob woes. Oh, yeah, they can't/won't
do this to Mark IV scopes.
P-land, Ore., USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 23:13:46 (ZULU)
Well...that was one fine post. I'll bet the guy was an English major
in college. Outbursts like that are the result of frustration and a severe
lack of discipline, so that should tell us that the gun community is doing
something right.
Paul J. Headlee <pheadlee@networksplus.net>
Ogden, KS, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 23:35:52 (ZULU)
JR, Fouling this HTR has almost no fouling. I clean aftenormal breaking
after each ten rounds. It is clean in a few seconds.
MikeM. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif, USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 23:36:26 (ZULU)
Major Hunter; It's a pleasure! You are at home here Marine!More than
me!
Tony; Sounds like we might make a Sniper out of you yet. But don't
worry about the moron! If you can't see it you can't hit it.
Jeff; You are hereby fined $5.00 for having too much fun!
John; It would have to be a Dillon! It's the only reasonably priced
machine that works.
USA - Saturday, July 17, 1999 at 23:39:45 (ZULU)
Ill try to forget about that ..............., nevermind i dont wanna
be like him. I'm working towards my goal and reading everything i can.
I got the Army sniper manual, and soon i will have the Marine one too.
Thanks again for all your help.
TonyD
USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 00:29:04 (ZULU)
Any one that forwards questions to me must be asking to be better prepared
to protect the people and the sovernty of the United States of America.
T. Babcock <monolith@niia.net>
IN, USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 00:51:43 (ZULU)
Tony
If you don't have it I strongly recommend reading 'The Ultimate
Sniper' by John Plaster,is a truly outstanding book.
Daniel <awhiting@idirect.com>
Canada - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 00:57:25 (ZULU)
Daniel;
Ill see what i can do. Thanks.
TonyD
USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 01:05:31 (ZULU)
Can one of yous guys tell me, of the 2 or 3 free-float AR-15 handguards
that are legal for NRA Service Rifle competion, which is better, or prefferred
amongst competitors? Thanks--
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
3R, MI, USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 01:17:16 (ZULU)
I have been trying to purchase 180 gr. Moly Berger 7mm VLD bullets,
since mid March. It seems that Berger bullets is having some big time problems
with the die's. Does anyone know of another manufacturer that make this
size bullet in a moly coated VLD.
Also can anyone explain to me how twist rate is determined for a
given rifle. I recently received back from (gee I am not sure if I should
put the name in or not) Arnold Arms a Remington 700 in STW The following
are the specs
Trued action, sako type extractor, Holland recoil lug, 30 inch Kreiger
stainless Match grade Barrel,cyro treated, #10 taper, 1 in 8 twist, Arnold
muzzle brake, Jewell trigger set at 2 lbs. McMillan Tooly MBR Stock,6 additional
lbs of lead added, Hart recoil reducer, Davidson single shot adapter, Nightforce
12 to 42 scope with ranging reticle, baer tapered bases, Badger Ordnace
rings.
The rifle workmanship is beautiful, as is the stock. My concern
is again the twist rate. I will not go into the details of the problem
I experienced with Arnold Arms and getting the barrel. Whole deal started
a year ago. Last problem was that The barrel had to be re-ordered and that
I would have to wait another two months minimum. The twist rate that I
had ordered was a 1 in 9. Kreiger folks asked me what bullets I would be
shooting, I told them the 7mm 180 grain Moly Bergers. They indicated that
the 1 in 8 twist would work and that they had one in the taper and length
I wanted.
Since then I have found difficulty in obtaining the bullets. I have
also read an article on over stablizing bullets that cause them to ride
nose high as bullet trajectory peaks at longer ranges and comes back down.
So I am a bit confused over the twist rates. It seems that I have seen
fast and slow twist rated in both small and large calibers and now as I
am looking for possible another bullet to shoot I am wondering if it might
not have been a mistake accepting the 1 in 8 twist barrel. Sure would appreciate
any help you all can give. Larry
Larry <reming@megsinet.net>
Marseilles, Illinois, USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 02:35:02 (ZULU)
Ned,
There are several producers of the type of tube you want. You can
find several in the Brownell's catalog or website. ArmaLite makes one.
And Frank White of Compass Lake Engineering makes one. And I'm sure our
own Bill Wylde has one. Bill W. Jump right in.
Bill W. can also authoritatively comment on twist rates for long
range work.
Ron N.
USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 03:04:27 (ZULU)
Tony,
where did you get the Army field manualand where are you getting
the Marine Corp one at? I,m reading The Ultimate Sniper now, and would
like to have those other two for reference.
It's an honor to be online with America's finest.
I was also wondering if anybody has had any dealings with the new
.300 rem ultramag and if so how was it?
Christopher B. <charlieb16@hotmail.com>
Ragley, La., USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 03:23:40 (ZULU)
To any and all:What are the best detachable mag systems for bolt rifles?Is
Savage a good system?I'm a lefty and remington doesnt make a 308DM.Also,what
about hicap versions?I.E. M14 mags in rem700?
thanks,
Hugh
Hugh <feudist@AOL.com>
USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 03:35:54 (ZULU)
OK gang,
This isn’t meant to ruffle anyone’s feathers, only clear up some
confusion on my part as well as a few others I’ve spoken with.
McKinney, TX, USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 04:10:17 (ZULU)
Stefan,
I can tell you I am getting a bit anti-Minimi(C-9),the number of
time's I have had to fix jam's of my gunner's with my boot is getting
out of hand.
I have some Lapua 170gr lockbase I have yet to load,and will get
some 185gr Scenar's as they sound good,so far I have only used 175gr MK
Sierra's and get 1/2moa.
But before you get too excited,it was not finished,ran out of money
and Army did not buy and have installed the Automated Targets.People work
the Butt's not electrics.
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
NZ - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 08:19:27 (ZULU)
Jeff...
You asked "I just can’t see how some can cost $1.5, 2, 3, 4, 5 or
6K"
And there are very fine rifles that are cheaper than "name" guns...
just like wines...
If any of the better builders had an order for 1000 M40A2's, or
some other design, they would get 1050 barrels, 1050 actions, 1050 etc.
They could spend the time setting up a machine to face actions, and do
a 1000 in 3 days, instead of setting up the machines each time, for each
one... yada yada yada. But to make 2 or 3 gets expensive.
Think of the cost of a Honda Civic, if made 3 at a time.
USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 11:48:45 (ZULU)
Pablito (His Royal Mootness),
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 15:53:54 (ZULU)
PeteR...
"Big Eddy" only works on Ru... Rug... Rugers, and '03 Springfields...
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 16:39:04 (ZULU)
'LITO,
USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 17:44:17 (ZULU)
To all wanting a good Rifle to get Started.
I Bought a Remington Sendero in 300 Win mag. I didnt have enough
money for a top of the line scope,,so I bought the Bushnell Dusk to Dawn
4-12, Excellent scope,,good clarity has lasted for over 700 rnds and with
this combination I have been shooting 5 inch groups and under at 500 Meters,
Using only a bipod. Note also this scope held up hunting (true test of
a scope getting banged around) in some pretty rugged country and held its
zero,,and I do not baby my equipment,,note also that temps in western montana
during the winter drop well below zero and the supposed junk scope held
up,,also I know several other people that have had the same luck with bushnell.I
have had equal luck with Simmons On my Main hunting rifle a old savage
super sporter 30.06.
Now on the verge of counterdicting myself on my earlier statement
of groups,,in all reality why do they even matter? I mean arnt we in the
real world only worried about the cold shot anyhow? and according to some
of your statements on non heavy barreled rifles,,one would assume that
no one in history ever made a long shot without one.
I will attest that with my old savage I have shot alot of Deer at
beyond 500yrds one shot. So in short to all you other poor folk out there
dont lose hart with whatever rifle you have got,,cause chances are people
have sniped with worse and had success.
Thank you for your time
Partison
MT., USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 17:46:03 (ZULU)
OK, quick question: who makes the best scope mount for the M-14/M-21/M1A?
By best, I mean the toughest and most reliable, preferably one with a slight
angle to allow the mounting of an M3 LR to reach 1000 yds. Something for
hard tactical duty.
Note: this is not a question on the suitability of the rifle, yes,
I am well aware that an AR-10, SR-25, or just about any bolt gun (even
a Ru ru ruger) would be a better platform.
Jim <hampshire@mediacen.navy.mil>
Ft. Meade, MD, USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 20:02:54 (ZULU)
Oh, Christ, not the 500 Yd deer stories again.
Eric Cartman <fatkid@aol.com>
South Park, Col., USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 20:48:11 (ZULU)
Partison, whoever that is, brings up a question that I have been meaning
to ask the gurus.....
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 21:07:05 (ZULU)
Jim
Cayley J Carson <T18man@gateway.net>
NEW CASTLE, DE, USA - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 21:22:43 (ZULU)
Chris,
Do you ever give up on the AUG war stories? Now you seem to be desperate,
you are chanting that you are the only one with worthwhile knowledge on
AUGs. Check my earlier posts. Everything I have typed is verifiable. Grow
up and grab a sense of humour.
darryl <darryl.todd@eddept.wa.edu.au>
Deep South - Sunday, July 18, 1999 at 23:55:15 (ZULU)
Christopher B;
You can get the manuals from this site, but i downloaded the Army
sniper manual free from a website. I am going to order the Marine manual
because I cannot find it online. How much did you pay for The Ultimate
Sniper? I have seen it for pretty high prices and want to know the best
price. The adress of the website I got the manual from is:
http://155.217.58.58/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/23-10/toc.htm
P.S. It takes A LOT of paper to download.
TonyD
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 01:02:23 (ZULU)
Was about to leave when I thought of another question:
Is it possible to get a gloss scope changed to matte without painting
it, or will lee-uh-pold paint it for a price? Any help or suggestions would
be appreciated.
TonyD
Stillwater, 100 degree New Jersey, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at
01:12:12 (ZULU)
Darryl,
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
NZ - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 01:21:50 (ZULU)
Has this happened to you? I have a very accurate 700-V 308 that routinely
shoots under 1.5" groups at 300yrds, but only for nine or ten rounds at
which time copper fouling becomes a problem in the accuracy dept. I have
fired 532 rounds to date so I assume the rifle should be broken in.
Tom B.
Tom B. <tiaraproductions@bigfoot.com>
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 01:35:41 (ZULU)
Tony; You might check Leupold's site or e-mail them and they will probably
redo that finish. It is fairly expensive but they do change finish or at
least they used too.
guy;s their once were people on E-bay that marketed that Marine
Manual about $10 bucks. I believe $24 is about the best price I've seen
on the Ultimate Sniper and that was a gun show I believe.
Plaster is interesting but something about that is kind of striking
me as .... shall we say... no researched heresay on some of it. Just kind
of take it with some caution. Major means well I think.
Others might comment.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 03:29:34 (ZULU)
I'll check, but Pablito told me they dont do it.
Thanks about the manual stuff too.
-Tony
TonyD
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 03:37:04 (ZULU)
To All,
Okay, this is just to sing the praises of a very high-caliber company
that we all know and admire. Occasionally, there comes a time when you
simply have to ring the bells.
Roger E. Lays <rlays@aol.com>
Sweltering Heat, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 03:57:19 (ZULU)
Chris,
My experience is with the Steyr AUG of Austrian manufacture as per
Army trials purchases. When I was playing soldiers it was tested against
the M16A2 from USA.
Darryl <darryl.todd@eddept.wa.edu.au>
Deep South - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 04:35:20 (ZULU)
I am assembling a tactical rifle as follows and would appreciate suggestions
and comments. I have chosen the Savage 10FP in 308win as the basis. With
a Harris bipod, Leupold mount and rings. And a Nikon 6.5-20x44 scope. I
would like suggestions on stocks and triggers to finish up the rifle itself.
Also any suggestions on ammunition that you might have found to be particularly
accurate, or handloading advise. With your suggestions for stocks, please
give information of the source for obtaining one. I appreciate any assistance
you may be able to provide, thank you.
Rich Stoops <SNPR101@aol.com>
export, PA, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 04:56:04 (ZULU)
Tony,
Leslie Bright <lbright@utk.edu>
Knoxville, TN, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 05:55:46 (ZULU)
PeteR: Torsten corrupting ME? I beat Torsten HANDS DOWN in wierdness!!
Considering you are the only one who cracked himself up (literally?) I'm
beginning to feel I really missed out on not having met you at SMTC. I'm
planning on going over there next summer again (can't get enough of the
105 F heat!), so maybe we can shake hands then... So you think it's Al
on the sound-file? Hmmm... I dunno, I only exchanged mails with him, never
heard his voice. I actually thought it had to be Westforce... BTW. Don't
you think those last two "baah's", the ones with the higher pitch, sound
kinda orgasmic? Makes you wonder what's going on there, don't it. Knowing
this might be Al O. makes it even more mysterious....!
Stefan <stefan@sniperhide.com>
Somewhere, Someplace in, sheep infested (oops, there I go again)
The Netherlands - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 09:56:36 (ZULU)
Stefan: Me? Loaded? Ha! Closest I've been to loaded is when I stayed
up all night with Air Force Combat Camera drinking an evil mix of sugercane
rum, whiskey, and grapefruit juice...
Ft. Meade, MD, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 11:38:39 (ZULU)
Stefan
Hi buddy,yep I do live in surrey and can drive to Bisley within
15 minutes,I don't know what Camp Perry is like but Bisly is like a small
shooting town,over 25 ranges I think from 10-1200 yards.It is heavily regulated
by the Government but is still a place where shooters can shoot side by
side,compete,try new guns,talk shooting and generally have a lot of fun.
I bought my 'Ultimate Sniper' for around 35pounds which is the equivelent
to $56 which is a rip off but is the only decent reading material I can
get imported back home.
Daniel.
Daniel <awhiting@idirect.com>
Canada - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 11:48:39 (ZULU)
Tony; I'm sure Paul and Leslie are right about the change of finish.
Truth is Leupold doesn't like to do anything that would change the
original configuration except possibly change turrets. They want you to
buy the model that has the feature on it usually. I think my memory was
failing me and I was thinking about a refinish job instead of a change.
IT's all BS but it's understandable in business practice. Leupold is better
than most but there are some things they could do that they don't. There
is something else guys are always trying to get them to do that they won't
but I can't recall it either. Gees's it sucks to get old. Anyway if you
can find some Snakeskins (thats a cloth cover for guns that has elastic
throughout and sells in gun stores) You can gut the barrel end or whereever
appropriate, the right length to cover the scope. Go and cut a slit in
one side just a little shorter than the space between the mounts so you
can slip it over the scope and you have a nice camo cover. The ends can
be camo taped or slipped under the Butler creek rubber covers to cover
the slightly frayed ends or if you wish they will just add to the camo.
It will camo your scope better than the matte finish anyway. And costs
only about $15.00 bucks or so. The rest of the thing can be used to cover
the barrel and part of the foreend and maybe even another scope cover can
be made from it. When at the range you can just pull it off like a T-shirt
for guns.
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 11:57:25 (ZULU)
not "gut" the barrel end "cut" the barrel end. Gee's my fingers
don't want to walk this morning.
B,Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 12:00:00 (ZULU)
Tony
If you can get out more into the woods and put into practise everything
your reading about ie: stalking,hide building etc. it will greatly improve
your skills and then when there's selection for a sniper you can show your
already acquired skills.If you dont already try hunting as this too will
help yourself to train to hunt men as a sniper.
Daniel <awhiting@idirect.com>
Canada - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 12:06:41 (ZULU)
Stefan,
On Snakeskins:
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 12:47:56 (ZULU)
Thanks for all of your replies and advice. A couple of comments,
questions to follow ups..
1st. RE: sharps.. I had always been told that the 45/70 was capable
of knocking down a Buffalo out to @500 yards effectively and accurately.
Also it's probably propaganda but stories of Buffalo Bill and Bat Masterson
knocking down Buff's at longer distance.
I thought that I had read not to long ago that a "sharpshooter"
did very well at some prety major 1000yd shoot (C.hathcock shoot in Quantico?)
I don't think the guy won, but my impression was that he was competitive.
Well anyways, that said I saw a while ago a Rem PSS .223 with what
looked like @ 18" bbl. This was a PD trade in, I know I should have jumped
on it but I missed the opportunity. I was told that this was ALL FACTORY.
Is this a "standard" production model? I asked around and no body seems
to be able to find a listing with the "short" BBl.
Is there any such thing as a "standard" PSS-k?
thanks!
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 13:55:08 (ZULU)
Seanc...
What you heard about the 45-70 being capable of killing a buffalo
at 500 yards is true, but that story relates to the American Buffalo (which
is really a Bison!). The American Bison has the temperament (and I.Q.)
of a hamster... the shooters would take the leader of the heard, and the
rest would just stand around, waiting for the bullet. Death was not instant,
they would just mill around until they passed out from internal hemmorage.
Even under those circumstances, the 45-70 was considered "light in the
lofers", and the 50-110, 50-3 1/4 and others were prefered. Indians hunted
them with bows and arrows, and did just fine!
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 14:33:26 (ZULU)
Seanc......
Why do you want a .223,if your going to enter long range target
and hunting the least you should use is 308.
Daniel <awhiting@idirect.com>
canada - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 14:36:16 (ZULU)
John from Taylor Ridge...
Forget the turret - get a dillon and get your wife involved.
James Hicks <hicks@zso.dec.com>
Seattle, WA, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 16:18:36 (ZULU)
Nice to know about those mean viscious african cape Buffalo, and
the wimpy stupid American (bison) Buffalo. Maybe I was just mislead figuring
since their both Buffalo... Well, I think you can see the thought process..
I have a few goodies for "up close" like mp5 and '51, and a couple
of "interesting" shotguns usas12 and stakeout. So it is pretty much try
to get what you can while you still can. Most dealers and distrinbutors
will not ship anything to this state including bolt actions.... For those
of you outside mass, I'm sure a lot of this will start creeping towrads
and into your states too so pay attention to what happens here and in Kalifornia!!
seanc <casler@concorde.com>
boston, ma, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 18:01:57 (ZULU)
I'm sorry guys but from where I live(England) your gun laws seem
very strange(ours are just f**king stupid)I know you have a ammendment
where everyone has right to bear arms so how come your state officials
are allowed to restrict the types and use of your guns?
Daniel <awhiting@idirect.com>
Canada - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 18:57:22 (ZULU)
Quick update on the bipod - I have the Gibbs 8500, and the upper
is quite definatly made out of steel, not aluminum.
Jim <hampshire@mediacen.navy.mil>
Ft. Meade, MD, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 18:59:54 (ZULU)
Greeting's all, could I take a moment and throw myself on the mercy
of the collective wisdom of this group? I'm the new and happy owner of
a Rem 700 VSLH in .308. I set it up with Burris rings and a Leo 4.5-14
Long range, even treated myself to a Jewel HVR (big smile!). Am delighted
with the setup but for one annoying problem...group shift! I can fire 4-5
rounds moderately quickly into a tiny little group (around .3"-.4" at 100).
If I then wait a few minutes and fire another group, that group will be
around 1" lower but still nice and small. For the rest of the day, as long
as I'm shooting regularly the group will stay in the same place. If I let
the barrel cool down, the group moves back to the starting point. Clearly,
the heat is making the barrel torque. My questions are these. Do all agree
that this is in fact what's happening? Next. If so, would cryo-treating
help improve the issue? Alternatively, is there any other solution (other
than rebarreling) that anyone can suggest? It's a well broken in piece,
groups great (other than the shifting groups) but it drives me nuts not
having the cool barrel rounds go where the hot barrel stuff hits. Please,
any suggestions/advice will be welcomed.
Mike Purvey <mpurvey@hiwaay.net>
huntsville, al, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 19:23:46 (ZULU)
Mike P,
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY , bY-gAwD, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 19:31:45 (ZULU)
I'm looking to upgrade to a 300WM that goes about a little over
12 pounds with scope..I may never shoot over 500 yards but its nice to
know u can. Anyone have any idea of how maney ft-lbs of free recoil energy
it will generate. Thanks a lot.....
Russ Egan <DRNRA@aol.>
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 19:35:47 (ZULU)
Daniel,
Our 2nd Ammendment is a direct relative to what was at the time
300+ years of English common law and the right to protect and defend one's
self and family. So.. in essence what has happened in England will probably
end up happening here, eventually. I am not 100% sure of exactly which
document(s) spelled this out but I believe that this traces it's roots
back to the Magna Carta. The founders took a lesson from their English
Common Law roots and carried over certain inalienable rights. So in essence
you (England) should have the same rights (not priviledges, there is a
BIG difference) as we do. The question is has anyone pushed it in the courts?
It seems to me that whatever country you are in unless the government can
show ALL it's citizens that there is NO CRIME anywhere, they have no reason
to take away the rights of the citizenry to defend themselves.
From what I know, in England the anti's were able to convince the
general public that is was "wrong" to have a gun, and "wrong" to use a
gun to protect themself. So in essence they were able to outlaw the RIGHT
of the citizen the means and the RIGHT to self protection. As I am sure
that you are painfully aware of the consequences of this action. Also from
what I hear, the crime rate per capita is now higher than in the USA for
violent crime, and has risen 20% from the institution of gun control.
Maybe you can share some real data, as opposed to the heresay that
I am spewing? I think we could all use any hard data, and also what you
guys are doing to restore your rights?
Thanks!
seanc
seanc <casler@concorde.com>
boston, mass, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 19:59:32 (ZULU)
Russ Egan,
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 20:09:30 (ZULU)
Seanc and all
You are right that violent crime has gone up higher than USA,to
the best of my knowledge firearms have never been a right to us but now
it is considered a very big priviledge.When I applied to get my licience
I had to:-be over 17
-prove I was a member of Bisley
-buy a $250+ gun cabinet(that is checked EVERY year and has to be
screwed into a wall in my house)
-have 2 sponsers
-have my medical records reviewed
-have no criminal record what-so-ever
-prove I had written permission to hunt on land that was then checked
for suitability at my expense.
-pay over $100 for the licience and then another $60 every three
years.
ALL fully or even semi automatic firearms
Shotguns that hold more than 3 shells
Airguns with 12+ft lbs power
Laser sights
I'm am seriously considering moving to over where you guys are,I
sometimes feel like KO'ing my liciencing policeman.
Daniel <awhiting@idirect.com>
Canada - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 21:26:57 (ZULU)
Remington 700P Saga Continued: Outrage!
Colatown, SC, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 21:56:16 (ZULU)
Scott/Andre/Mike/Bill or ?
Saw a lot of #$%& .223 mags at the show. I was warned about
US mags jamming on the last round (they're cheap to buy though!) and urged
to follow the tried-and-true GI mags (the Sanchez mags looked good) and
get what you pay for. These guys are around 35$ and it would hurt to get
burned! And prices are REALLY being jacked up on the rifles before the
SB23 ban kicks in! Is O.K. REALLY a maker of Colt brand mags, or maybe
a lesser quality product than their Colt contract? Thank you for reading
this post.
C. Ross <chr@alanex.com>
CA, USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 22:29:30 (ZULU)
Tom Simpson...
If you read over the archives for the past 10 or 12 months, you
will find many talking about problems with Remingtons... and poor service
from the company... If I had $600 to $700 right now, a Remington would
not be on my list...
The Win M70/V's are coming out of the factory CLEAN, as they just
got a new factory, and are still trying to get over the bad reputation
of the late 60's and 70's... The Savages are also coming out very nice,
as they are trying to build a new reputation to a new market... Remington
is having very serious internal problems right now, and the moral of the
workers is at an all time low. I'm not bashing Rem on a brand issue...
I have many, and just ordered another from the custom shop... but the production
line guns are the poorest they have ever made.
When I bought my last .308 PSS, I had to pick through 4 guns at
the gunshop to find a clean one... same complaints, off center crown, two
had rust in the barrel... and even though I got the pick of the litter,
I just sold it because the barrel was so rough, it was a pig to clean...
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 22:41:12 (ZULU)
-Tom S.
snipped heavily..... My 700VSSF came with a quality stock, so poorly
fitted to the gun that the action never settled into the aluminum bedding
block until the action was epoxy bedded, the forestock was contacting the
"free floated" barrel, and the bolt was jammed against the stock when the
action was cocked. A little judicious tuning was all that was required
to make this one shoot decently, but it would seem that an extra fifteen
to thirty minutes of labor could be performed at the factory without unduly
raising prices on these rifles.
Actually, I have an interesting little anecdote that describes the
state of affairs among the factory gun makers. About three years ago, BxxxxSxxx
was engaged to consult with one of the Big Four about some problems that
they were having with their barrels. I spent quite a bit of time with the
"barrel team" at this particular company, and the root of their overall
problem soon became very evident - simply put, they had no passion for
their product at all. As amazing as it might sound, the factory's chief
engineer for barrels was a young guy who had no qualms about admitting
that he had:
1.) never fired a gun,
2.) had no present interest in firing a gun, and
3.) had no intention of ever firing a gun in the future.
The worst part of it is, as the name replies PSS , Police Sharp
Shooter, designed to be used in a situation where extreme accuracy is essential
in life or death situations. I guess the extremely long throat (at least
half the barrel length) and the "wide Bore" allow for many thousands of
rounds to be fired before it becomes clogged with residue, providing longer
shooting pleasure between cleanings. Thanks Remington.
I don't know just how much time and $$$ I would bother to spend
on a new Remington barrel. While I have several older ones that shoot quite
well, some of the more recent examples I have seen have been so bad it's
hard to understand how they could even get them screwed onto the reciever!
One recent example was bent in two directions and another had an unrifled
section on one side near the muzzle!
A friend purchased a .223 Remington PSS (composite stock, etc.)
last year and was disappointed that it wouldn't shoot less than 1.5 inches
at 100 yards. After fiddling with it a while, it was determined that the
last 2 inches of the barrel was sans rifling!
Speaking of Remington barrels, My brand new 700PSS, supposed "accuracy
out of the box", in .308 has a bore diameter of >.310, Now that's quality
control!
It was also said that Remington has about $13.00 in each barrel.
Don't quote me on this. But even if this figure is off by a factor of 3
it would still be only $39.00. Heck, I can almost spend that much on a
hammer.
Ron N.
Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
USA - Monday, July 19, 1999 at 23:56:57 (ZULU)
Buffalo Hunting with a 45-70,
There is a book thats still in print called, GETTING A STAND by
Miles Gilbert,and in his book he has put together the stories of the buffalo
hunters, the ones that could write anyways, very good reading if you are
into that kind of stuff....
Some of the hunters said that 200-400yds. shots were the norm.......
Then some said it would take as many as 13 shots to put one down..
Thats alot of lead!!!!
But most said that they would shoot them far behind the ribs.
BigGunn <meghan@penn.com>
Mtn. Country.....In the mighty HOT state of....., Pa., USA - Tuesday,
July 20, 1999 at 00:22:04 (ZULU)
Re; Burris Signature Zee 30mm........
As I had posted several days ago Burris customer service had indicated
production in year 2000.This is incorrect they make them NOW as was indicated
by a person who already has some.I contacted Midway who did not have them
in stock but would special order/back order them for $58.95.I then contacted
Brownells who had them in stock for $68.00 but allowed that eccentric inserts
were not available in 30mm.So I called Burris and asked what is the deal,They
said that the rings come with 1 set zero or concentric inserts and 1 set
+/-.010 eccentric(they made no mention of not making them).I asked why
they did not produce +/-.020 and they responded that their Black Diamond
series scopes had so much internal adjustment as to make the higher value
inserts a moot point but that they had many queries on the subject in the
last 30 days or so.This looks to me like a ring lappers wet dream and maybe
if enough interest is generated they will respond with the goods.Or another
cottage industry may be born.
Bruce E. <BGENLVTEX@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 00:25:37 (ZULU)
Tom, let me know how your crowning adventure turns out. The chamfer
on mine is barely noticable. In fact all five of my Rem's crowns could
use a good knob job.
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 01:44:31 (ZULU)
No one has said anything so.... Joey Gs rifle was a modified K31.
So there.
PL <nrdwr.plakin@state.ut.us>
Whiterocks, Utah, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 02:21:34 (ZULU)
Hello all, I have been lurking and reading all here for a while
now, and want to thank all for teh info and service provided. I am preparing
to build my first long range/tactical rifle in the near future, and the
information here is great. I do have a few questions, and one is related
to reloding of a handgun caliber (hope you don't mind)
Quickbow <quickbow@hotmail.com>
Hot As Hell, Maryland, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 03:08:19 (ZULU)
Bolt; I first mentioned the cold bore shooting thing about 3 years
ago on here. I happened to be talking to someone off line about it when
the question came up this time. It may have been Tom. But it does seem
like the application is the thing. A battlefield sniper would be concerned
perhaps with hot barrels but normally the important thing is that a rifle
that will hold zero for the first through at least 5 shots will be a pretty
good and well designed piece properly loaded at least. Lighter easier to
carry guns might be deployed if it is a one shot mission. Provided sufficient
testing reveals the first shot is predictable.
Quickbow; a bipod is a pain to carry and deploy but it works. The
Harris system seems to work the best or least the best for the least.
While I'm at it a well designed 7mm magnum should be about equal
to anything up to at least a 1000 yards and it would depend on whether
the target be Bison, Buffalo, or Man.
I think you'll need the right dies.
Tom! You don't have a thing to loose by what A'm gonna tell you.
At this point. Get you a dremmel drill and a cone shaped tool. Pad the
barrel and line it up as straight as you can. Ram it down that barrel as
straight and carefully as you can. Don't run it too long or you will overheat
the barrel just cut it slowly and evenly as you can. Clean it good from
the breech end and go shoot the damn thing. The Brownell Tools work fine
but they are kind of expensive and chances are you don't need it. I've
done quite a few barrels by both methods and I can't tell the difference
on any of them. IF you get the tools make you a way to put them in a common
brace rather than a drill unless you have big time tools access. And when
you do the cone thing don't use excessive pressure just let the tool do
the cutting and keep it as slow and smooth as you can.
The American Bison is truly a easy target. But during Spring season
it is not a good idea to get too close with the Camera. I have a video
of a yankee who didn't know that. If the Bulls are making a sound like
a somewhere between a freight train, tornado and a thunder roll keep back
a ways.
SeanC; I believe it was in your town where the British tried to
take away American's guns. You see boys. Rich People usually wind up making
the laws and they don't like po fok havin guns! In this country we ain't
let that happen yet! Of all places Conn. ought to know better. It's only
a right if the people say it is and are willing to back it up. Bout anywhere
in west America where there ain't a bunch of zealot yuppies (that's about
any big town) is where the gun people are.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 03:50:04 (ZULU)
I met this ex-army guy who fought in the Vietnam war and claimed
that he was a sniper. He claims to have 64 kills in his tour of duty. Could
this be correct. PLEASE E-MAIL me if anyone might know.
Donald McLeod <stumpygumpy@hotmail.com>
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 04:01:48
(ZULU)
On the Remington PSS.
I have one of those in Cal. 7mm-08. It has a very good barrel for
a factory production rifle. It is a six groove button rifled barrel and
it has a good throat and leade. With a 150 Sierra matchking loaded to max
cartridge length. the leade will engage in about a 1/16 inch beyond that.
I can only guess that Remington does not load any super long bullets in
this caliber thus requiring the long throats that I keep hearing about
in 308. When I got the rifle the barrel was not free floated either and
it took alot of sandpaper and elbow grease to make it so. It did not make
a bit of difference though, the rifle shot just as good either way. As
a matter of fact I have wasted a lot of time and bullets and powder trying
to find a load that shot better or worse than 1/2 MOA in this rifle.
If anyone would like to know how Judge Roy Bean really died I found
this site, http://www.calweb.com/~rbbusman/lawmen/bean.html
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 04:50:37 (ZULU)
To Bill Re: history lesson
This is nit picking, I know, but I think that during the Revolutionary
war, We loyal Americans were actually British subjects rebelling against
British rule. A small point but an important one.
We were not Americans until we actually whipped those bastards.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 05:01:00 (ZULU)
AR-15 barrel markings:
mike S <mws@ecom.net>
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 05:01:52 (ZULU)
Bolt
In resoponse to your question on loads I found with my 300 win mag.
sendero that IMR 7828 loaded to 78 grains with sierra JHBT match bullets
seem to work best for me. For hunting from what my friends say the speer
grand slam and reloader 22 are the only way to go but dont know what load
there using. as far as your cold bore comment,,I have tried to let cool
clean and shoot but after three shots Im beyond bored and havcnt acomplished
much else.
Daniel
Dont let anyone shit you we in America are only free in our minds,,they
let us have a tattered version of the second amendment that really doesnt
exist cept for hunting. I mean really how free are you when IN most cities
(maybe all) you cannot light off fire works to celebrate your independence
becouse its the against the law..kind of Ironic isnt it and one by one
no freedoms are left all in the name of prevention and safety. Christ,
lord forbid you ever use a gun in self defense and shoot the bastard more
than once,,may as well eat a bullet after the bad guy is dead. cause by
the time the liberals get done with you and some big buy named bubba in
prison you sure as well will wish you had.
Partison <Partison@hotmail.com>
Mt., USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 05:29:56 (ZULU)
D. McLeod
If you check out Mel's Sniper page he has a list of military snipers
and their kills dating from WWI
Anthony Rhoda <aguidor@yahoo.com>
N.O., LA, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 05:35:28 (ZULU)
Thanks for the input so far guys. Anyone know who besides dillon
has the dies for .357sig cheap? Also, I heard that mounting a small bubble
level on your rifle helps with barrel cant, any ideas on how to mount and
check for true level? Also, any ideas on loads that work well in hte 7mm
mag?
Quickbow <quickbow@hotmail.com>
No ccw's in, Maryland, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 05:57:29 (ZULU)
One other question, the gun i am looking at has a 22 or 24 inch
barrel, which will be more accurate and why? Also, anyone know of any decent
ranges near Frederick, MD with more than a 100 yard limit?
Quickbow <quickbow@hotmail.com>
needmoreranes, Maryland, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 08:06:58 (ZULU)
Re: Colt AR-15 markings
Where do you get your information?
RIFLE, 5.56MM: M16A2
12 December 1986
INSPECTION METHOD: Visual
SAMPLING PROCEDURE: 100%
Ron N.
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 12:28:44 (ZULU)
All,
Orlando, FL, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 14:45:17 (ZULU)
To follow up with the previous post, it appears that the URL is
caps sensitive, so try this one: http://www.house.gov/waxman/Guns/50/Video/video.html
Jon Custis <jacustis@aol.com>
Orlando, FL, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 14:52:51 (ZULU)
On 30mm Burris rings...
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 15:04:28 (ZULU)
Heres a link to Mel's Sniper Page
Just in case you cant find it
It oughta work
Anthony Rhoda <aguidor@yahoo.com>
N.O., LA, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 16:39:19 (ZULU)
Ned,
Mr. McCann later had me order yet another Krieger in 7MM. This one
is a 7.8" twist and what he considered perfect for the range of bullets
he was using. This fellow has a 600Y range out his front door and I respect
his opinion.
BILL WYLDE <k9wxr@rr1.net>
SWELTERING - SE, IL, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 17:58:38 (ZULU)
Steve; I was probably using the Geographical distinction of American
rather the more correct political description.
Partison; The barrel length will have little to do with the accuracy.
There are some lengths that do seem to be a bit sweeter than others
for a particular load. But you could not count on any length being more
accurate than another. The best group I ever saw shot was with a 7BR 14"
Remington XP-100. It would not be determined that all were not in the same
hole 5 shots at 200 meters.
Actually you can mount the bubble anywhere. Put the rifle in a holding
vise and place a conventional level on the scope bases. Glue or fasten
the bubble you want to use to anything so that it is showing level the
same as the conventional level. It should be real close when your finished.
While we are victims of our own freedom fantasy we must maintain
the fixation or loose it altogether. After all they still make muskets.
It is the zealots who seek to create a world where crime is not
a possibilty that will take it from us. We must maintain our freedom to
commit a crime! What law shall we pass now to keep rich guys from killing
themselves with airplanes they don't know how to fly!
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 18:53:20 (ZULU)
Quickbow: You can shoot very accurately with a bipod, but you can
shoot just as accurately with other types of rests. However, bipods are
very quick to deploy. The tradeoff is that they can be a pain to travel
with, they stick out and poke you or get hung up on things. Depends on
what your priorities are.
grasshopper <wd6cmu@earthlink.net>
Richmond, CA, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 19:07:55 (ZULU)
B.Rogers...
I'm surprised at you... Shame... why it's obvious!
Higher taxes on aviation gas...
Mandatory black boxes to go with the pilot...
Mandatory flight plans...
10 day waiting period for approval of flight plans by the FAA, (not
available on weekends), flights not permitted without approval.
Limit to one flight a month...
Background checks on all persons riding in private planes...
Safety locks on all aircraft (FAA to keep the keys!)
Ban on long range gas tanks... (Maximum of 50 miles!)
Elimination of all air shows (to keep young, innocent children,
from getting interested in this deadly, unnecessary, pastime!)
Must prove need before private pilot license is issued.
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 19:14:01 (ZULU)
Jr,
It's a date, if I have drank up the cold ones, I know where there
are more of them(HA). I am probably more anxious to see the patrol get
those rifles than they are, they should have never told me I could wring
one out!!!(HA)
It's hard to shot more than about two cold bore shots a day. I was
told at one of the police sniper schools that I went to that it takes a
good 4 hours to cool the barrel back to the same place as it was for the
first cold bore shot. I have no way to disprove this or argue with it,
it's just what I was told by a pretty good instructor. He said a good gauge
of how your rifle shoots is to use the same target over a number of weeks
and see what your group looks like when your done shooting one cold bore
shot at it each time you go out in all types of conditions. This will be
the true test of you and your rifles capabilities. I have tried it and
it is very interesting to see the results.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 19:22:12 (ZULU)
I should have known guys; He's already thought this one out too!
That's why he gets the big bucks!
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 19:55:04 (ZULU)
KILLJOY!!
willam <www.guns@aol.com>
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 20:04:52 (ZULU)
Guys, thanks for the duty roster replies and email help with my
.25-06 questions. I did measure the case at the shoulder, and found it
had ballooned a bit. Necks were okay, and bullets slipped right into the
fired cases. So I took all my 4X fired cases, and full length resized them.
Look good. Will try them tomorrow on some wood chucks. One question: having
a hell of a time finding the BC and SD of Nosler's 100 gr. ballistic tip.
Anyone?
Regards,
JA
John Ambrutis <jnjambr@epix.net>
Lake Carey, Pa, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 20:17:13 (ZULU)
Pat, most excellent idea on the target concept. Glad I thought of
it!
USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 20:56:51 (ZULU)
B. Rogers: I have numerous uses for the Brownells reamers outside
of this one project, so I will go this route. As it would seem that a low-dollar,
barrel-capable lathe is not in my immediate future, this will again enable
me to shorten and properly set up the business end of a rifle, a capabilty
that I have been sorely missing since I ceased working in proper gun shops
and at least knew people with functional lathes that I could borrow time
on.
Tom Simspon <bullet45@usit.net>
Colatown, SC, USA - Tuesday, July 20, 1999 at 22:01:09 (ZULU)
Tom,
Micanopy Beach, FL, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 00:03:59 (ZULU)
hey guys, I got to check out a Prometheus powder measure last weekend
and man was it slick. You can throw scale weighed charges about every ten
sconds. best of all, no electronic scales or powder dispensers. not only
is it faster than what we have been using, it's more accurate. I would
describe the Prometheus as being to a standard powder measure as to what
a dillon 1050 is to a rock chucker. I don't sell these things and I have
no interest in the company, I just think this is one hell of a product.
Rich <dick2@clarkston.com>
ID, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 00:13:43 (ZULU)
30 mm Burris rings;
JUST FORGET ANYTHING I SAID.After making my initial post I recieved
mail from an individual on this Roster indicating that he had in his possesion
30mm Signature Zee rings and furnished me with a part # and order # for
a specific well recognized vendor who confirmed this description.Upon further
research I find that the part# that I was furnished with is NOT for ZEE
rings but standard turn in front windage adjustable rear.I in turn furnished
all of you with false information and for this I appologize.However if
you need some 30mm Sig.Med.Matte rings I'll have some in a few days and
they absolutely will not work on my rifle.I'll post them in the Emporium
Bruce E. <BGENLVTEX@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 00:15:01 (ZULU)
I'm in the market for a laser rangefinder and would appreciate any
comments available on personal experience with any of the lower priced
models ie, Bushnell, Tasco,and Simmons. I've had my hands on the Bushnell
400 and recently a Simmons 800 with varying results and am wondering if
I'm expecting too much from the latter especially to be able to read off
a tree @600 yds plus. The furthest reading I've obtained was 425 off a
tree and 525 of a bright building. Buildings being rare where I intend
to go 'varminting' I was hoping for a unit that will read to 600- 800 reliably.
There are units now available in the USA (and hopefully via the net) that
have yet to reach NZ so any assistance would be most welcomed.
Dave Jones <splat@ihug.co.nz>
Wellington , New Zealand - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 00:31:31 (ZULU)
Dave Jones...
We talked the laser thing to death about 6 to 8 weeks ago... go
into the archives. There is a lot of data on just about all of them...
a quickie is that the cheap ones are good for about 1/3 to 1/2 of
what they are "rated" for, against real targets... dirt, trees, animals.
The long range they claim is against reflective road signs (bad
to shoot) and large houses (very bad to shoot!!).
If you want reliable 800yds, be prepared to dig into your jeans
for $1500 at a minimum, and more likely over $2K
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 00:39:51 (ZULU)
Quickbow,
Roger Lays <rlays@aol.com>
Corpus Christi, TX, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 00:57:00 (ZULU)
Thanx for the info, I will check them out. Any shooters from in
or near Maryland who know af any good places to shoot, preferable not too
expensive. Or that want to get together and chat over a few cold ones for
that matter.
Quickbow <quickbow@hotmail.com>
needmoregunstoresin, Maryland, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 01:23:48
(ZULU)
-Tom S.
Ron N.
Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 01:51:35 (ZULU)
Ron, AR markings:
>Where do you get your information?
proof load firing.
>chrome plating chambers. A short time later the bore was plated
too. >I believe, but have no proof that all civilian
>chroming stopped in the fall of 1998. Colt always makes "running
>changes". So there are always many transitional
>models each time a production change is made. I havent' seen any
late >production, but would think that the
>markings have, or will be changed.
>All rifle barrels should be traceable. I know that Wilson has always
>stamped a "W" on their barrels.
>inspection methods of various rifle parts.
>RIFLE, 5.56MM: M16A2
>12 December 1986
>INSPECTION METHOD: Visual
>SAMPLING PROCEDURE: 100%
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 02:53:07 (ZULU)
Thanks guys for all your help. And its a hunting rifle not a tactical
one. I also am not too happy with my remington. The action seems choppy
to me, i prefer winchesters feel and just the whole action 3 position saftey,
etc. I also was cycling some empty shells through it the other day and
it had problems putting the rounds freom the magazind direstly into the
chamber, it always jammed up and i had to clclt the bolt back and forward
again. ( and yes i put the rounds to the back of the magazine.) My next
rifle will be a winchester varmint in a smaller caliber like 223, 22-250,
or 243 for ....well varmints. or maybe ill get a .300 win..................................
TonyD
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 03:11:17 (ZULU)
bad spelling in that last one i know.
TonyD
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 03:12:28 (ZULU)
I NEED YOUR HELP BOYS.
I hear there are a few BDL or ADL's (PLEASE EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE,
I STILL DON'T KNOW) left with short thin barrels and open sights, but i
would have to change out the barrel. Should i go with a laminate blued
varmint and toss the stock?
IS IT EASIER TO CHANGE STOCKS OR BARRELS???? no experience with
either here.
I'd rather no flutings, but could probably put up with them.
I've heard some from people about them but would appreciate some
info on the ADL/BDL difference. Would it be better just to try and get
a police model for more $ in blued with the police synthetic stock?
sorry for the confusing message. I'm mostly curious about the questions
in caps, but any advice would always be appreciated. if you can please
email me gaveup99@hotmail.com or just post it on the roster here and i
will try to find it.
THANKS
Matt Bortz <gaveup99@hotmail.com>
pulling out hair from this decision in, IL, USA - Wednesday, July 21,
1999 at 03:40:30 (ZULU)
Beginners Corner:
darryl <darryl.todd@eddept.wa.edu.au>
deep South - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 03:42:28 (ZULU)
Darryl-
Quickbow <quickbow@hotmail.com>
needallnightdentistryin, Maryland, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at
03:53:30 (ZULU)
Hi Lads,
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
NZ - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 04:35:54 (ZULU)
The Rem VS-SF has somewhat been dropped from their line. In reality
they have been replaced (changed a tad) by the VS-SF-P (ported). It is
the same with the exception of a pair of porting slots located near the
muzzle tucked down into the buisness end of the top two flutes. They did
eliminate the base VS (non SS no flutes) except in left hand but these
are just left overs not '99's. My advice is to get the fluted gun. The
flutes allow for improved cooling over a std heavy. They also allow for
a lighter barrel yet do not give up stiffness. The fluted rifles weight
is 8-1/2 # compared to the non fluted bull barreled total weight of 9#.
The VLS (laminated stock) weights in at a tankish 9.5#.
Patrick <Luznutbehindewheel@yahoo.com>
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 05:11:52 (ZULU)
DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT KIND OF RINGS THE MARINE CORPS USE ON THEIR
M40A1-A3'S NOW THAT REDFIELD HAS GONE OUT OF BUSINESS. I HEARD THEY STILL
WON'T USE LEUPOLD MARK 4 TYPE RINGS.
ALSO, DOES SOMEONE HAVE THE EXACT SPECS & PARTS THE MARINE CORPS
ARMORERS USE TO BUILD THEIR RIFLES(BESIDES THE D.D. ROSS SCOPE MOUNT, STEEL
TRIGGERGUARD & FLOORPLATE, TACK WELDING THE MAG TO RECEIVER, ETC.)
ARMORER <BDL ACTION@AOL.COM>
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 05:53:20 (ZULU)
Hi there!
Anyway, carbonfiber/epoxy composite on .30 cal rifles? What happens
when you shoot the thing hot? We paint composite aircraft white so the
sun wont heat them...
OK graphite is a very good heat conductor, but the heat cond. of
epoxy really sucks. So heat would not dissipate any quicker than steel,
and epoxy can only take a 100 C or so, maybe 150 for special stuff.
And during rapid fire, and not so rapid too, if you shoot more than
20-30 rounds, I can tell you a barrel is way over 100 C.
So how do they fix this?
Krister Engvoll <k.engvoll@norton.no>
Norway - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 06:33:55 (ZULU)
ARMORER:
I suggest you check out Mike Lau's book "The Military and Police
Sniper" if you want that much information on the M40A1. In a nutshell it's
a Remington 700 SA in .308 with a heavy 24" barrel (who the manufacturer
was depends on when it came out of Quantico: Hart, Douglas, HS Precision,
etc.). McMillian stock, Winchester floorplate and triggerguard, Unertl
scope and base, Redfield rings; it sounds as if you know the components,
what else are you wanting to know about it? You could look at Mike's home
page, too, at http://www.texasbrigade.com/.
The ADL Remingtons are a little more simple. They have the same
action, but don't have hinged floorplates for the magazine like the BDLs
do. At least that's my understanding.
Knoxville, TN, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 07:10:25 (ZULU)
Hello,
I'm new to your page, And I Think I have just hit the gold mine
of info I have been looking for. I love the the long shot, the longer the
better. This page is what I have been looking for!!
Gillette, Wyoming
R.D. Jones <rdjrrj1@vcn.com>
Gillette, Wyoming, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 07:32:19 (ZULU)
I AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH MIKE LAU AND HIS TBA RIFLES & M40A1
SPECS.
I JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF THE MARINE CORPS HAVE UPDATED THEIR OLD
SPECIFICATIONS AND WHAT THEIR ARMORERS AT QUANTICO HAVE BEEN USING LATELY.
I KNOW ONCE ALL THEIR UNERTLS BREAK OR WEAR OUT, THEY WILL BE REPLACED
BY LEUPOLD MARK 4 M3'S. I WAS JUST WONDERING IF THEY WILL DO THE SAME WITH
THE RINGS AND D.D. ROSS HARDWARE. THANKS FOR THE INFO ANYWAY.
ARMORER <BDL ACTION@AOL.COM>
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 08:10:29 (ZULU)
Re: AR-15 barrel markings
If that is what it says, then I stand corrected. My Colt print is
floating around the AR web world right now.
Ron N.
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 10:47:36 (ZULU)
Leslie...
It wasn't toxic waste that put Redfield out of business, unless
you include their scopes as part of the toxic waste. They used to be a
fine scope, second to Leupold, and were purchased by one of those "Conglomorates"
that "glom" all of the money out of the company... same thing happened
to Lyman, who you old timers will remember made very fine scopes. It's
the same business tactic that AMF did to Harley Davidson... buy it up,
suck out the profits, don't put money into the company, and when it slides,
bail out leaving the workers to fend for themselves.
I bought a Redfield scope about 4 years ago on a "your money back"
deal, and when I sent it back with 9 bonafide complaints, he said, "Jeez,
your fussy", and I replied "Go out and but a Bushnell or Tasco, and look
at your competition".
They are poor scopes... but their mounts are fine.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 10:52:34 (ZULU)
Matt Bortz:
>I hear there are a few BDL or ADL's (PLEASE EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE,
>I STILL DON'T KNOW) left
BDL=magazine in stock, load from top and empty by dropping hinged
floor plate.
DM=detachable magazine. (I personally detest the style Remington
uses, but that's another story)
Stocks are easy, barrels best left to a gunsmith for proper headspacing
(IE so your rifle doesn't blow up)
>with the police synthetic stock?
ft. Meade, MD, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 11:11:43 (ZULU)
OK, now I have a question of my own.
Ft. Meade, MD, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 11:57:36 (ZULU)
FYI, need to hurry!!!!!!!!!!
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 11:58:55 (ZULU)
Missed a part - I'm talking about the Gibbs 8500 bipod that is a
steel copy of the Parker Hale.
Ft. Meade, MD, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 12:00:07 (ZULU)
Basic shootingskills
Oslo, Norway - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 12:50:32 (ZULU)
Quick follow up and question..
sean
Boston, ma, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 12:54:09 (ZULU)
Bolt,
He was very explicit on that point also, you were to carry the rifle
and ammo the way it would be carried on duty. If you carry the rifle in
the trunk and the ammo inside the car carry it that way and shoot it that
way hot or cold. Also the barrel is to be in the condition you will normally
carry the rilfe in, if its foulded then shoot it that way, if its clean
then shoot it in the same condition every time. It is really a true test
of the guns capabilities and yours when the weather is not calm and nice
all the time like we like it to be when we practice(HA)
I use the spray release agent and it works great!!
Pablito is right (As usual) in range finder cut the number in half
and thats wht the working range is. So far the Bushnell 1000 is the best
of the cheap ones but its max range was 625 yards on a IPSIC target 18x30".
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 13:11:27 (ZULU)
Jim: You should talk to Scott Powers. He installed the Versa-pod
the same way you want to install your Gibbs.
I recall you asked me to team up with you for SMTC next year. Unfortunately
for you I'll go there with my buddy Marco. If you find yourself a partner,
we can go over there all together and arrange for shared transportation.
PS. Y'all should come over here and participate in the Nijmegen
4-day Marches. I can't make it this year, but it's 200 km (124 miles) in
4 days.
Nijmegen, home of the 4-day hell of blistered feet, The Netherlands
- Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 13:47:18 (ZULU)
TorF: Good to see you back. Nope, I'm not gonna try that, no way!
Can you tell me wether you've ever handled a Finnish Lynx straight-pull
rifle?
Stefan <stefan@sniperhide.com>
Somewhere, Someplace, The Netherlands - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at
14:02:08 (ZULU)
Help! I need to get ahold of both Rick Boucher and Michael Haugen.
If anyone can ask them to contact me by email asap, I would appreciate
it very much.
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 14:55:28 (ZULU)
Excellent website, I use it for reference very often.
Poplar Bluff, MO, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 15:46:55 (ZULU)
Pablito:
Wears your head man, what are you thinking posting restrictions
on anything out in the open like that, you know some liberal will take
you seriouse and wham, next thing you know another stupid bill on the house
floor.
Just for the record, that was funny as hell though.
Scary to think that anyone would actually take that seriously.
Well said, anyone would be hard pressed to convince me the second
amendment was put into place to ensure the Military always had arms.
anyone with even a remote brain can figure out that National Guard
is not militia, do to the fact that the arms are locked away under total
gov control. Thus the term minuet man would be shot to shit since you would
have to take time to arm ect. or if the gov turned on the people.(we all
know that just doesnt happen) you would be locked away from the guns.
Partison <Partison@hotmail.com>
Mt., USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 17:06:17 (ZULU)
Stefan
Have you ever heard of another shooter from the Netherlands called
Willam Verhaak,we buddy up most the time for shooting,he lives quite near
me back in England he lived in The Hague when he was younger.Maybe we could
all get together for SMTC and see who's the better team.It's a good idea
for me to come round your way as it's not too far from my homeland.
I'm still trying to figure out what we have to do to take our rifles
over to SMTC (F**king English laws)
Daniel
Good Shooting.
Daniel <awhiting@idirect.com>
Canada - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 17:11:31 (ZULU)
Stefan: Yes, I've handeled (not fired) the Lynx. It's basically
an enlarged centerfire Browning T-bolt with rear-locking crossbolt. Only
difference is it cocks on opening. Action has a very homemade feel. Tolerances
are very tight. Laminated stock is designed for running target competition.
Exellent trigger. Mags seemed OK. This is a targetrifle for the range.
Not a military sniper.
Oslo, Norway - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 17:24:57 (ZULU)
Has anybody seen any info on the Nikon MONARCH UCC Laser 600 3-12x50
rifle scope? In one of the GUNS magazine they show a scope that
tasco
makes that looks like the same scope. I know the SWAROVSKI Laser
Range
Finding RifleScope is in a whole differnt ball park.My interest
is
putting this on top of a 300WM Sendero to do some elk hunting would
I make a mistake by using a base like a DD Ross with extra elevation
built in? Also please tell me if this is a bad misconception that
I
have would it be for my benfit to use a mill-dot for hunting elk?
The way I understand it a MILL-DOT is for shooting at known &
unknown
distance but your targets height is known. I like the idea of one
less item to carry when hunting in the field.
Thank you for your time
hannah@slip.net
Los Gatos, Kalifornia, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 17:48:18 (ZULU)
One of my dealers says that he can get me a VS-SF-P (the ported
stainless synthetic varmint). I suppose my question would be:
Any information would be gladly apprecited, you all have been very
helpful. If it were not for this website, I probably would have bought
a Savage (what my boss recommends, we sell guns together through a local
merchandiser) and that would have been a crying shame huh. (joke, sorry
sarge)
Matt Bortz <gaveup99@hotmail.com>
deciding the perfect gun in, IL, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at
18:57:58 (ZULU)
Scott(Hannah)
There is no real point in spending the extra money for mil-dots
for hunting unless your prepared to spend ALOT of time establishing a chart
for how big a Elk looks at different ranges,unless there's a special formula.Althought
the mil-dots would be useful for holds of range and wind.
How far are you prepared to shoot at game?
You are right that you deffinately do not won't to be carrying a
laser range-finder on a Elk hunt.
Sorry don't know bout the Nikon.
Good shooting.
Daniel <awhiting@idirect.com>
somewhere, Canada - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 19:07:04 (ZULU)
I have 6 openings left for the Hathcock event this year if you all
are still intrested.
Rod Ryan <ryan@stormmountain.com>
Elk Garden, WV, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 20:19:41 (ZULU)
The Mil dot system works the same for Elk as it does for mice. You
simply apply the appropriate target measurements. I believe a Elk will
probably measure about .5 to .7yard at the shoulder hump to bottom of the
chest. You would have to estimate the size of the animal based on his rack
and other factors. That would be 500 or 700/number of dots that covers
him. 2 dots 350 yards etc. 1 dot 500 or 700 depending on his size. Might
consult some Elk measurements before you take those figures. I haven't
thought about the matter that much.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 21:22:00 (ZULU)
I think you have a excellent site! I've learned many things not
only about Snipers but how to become one what a good sniper should do and
etc. etc.
Rex <jrbryant@scrtc.com>
KY, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 21:38:17 (ZULU)
Scott Hannah,
Good luck on your elk hunt.
You CAN use a mill dot to hunt elk. Just figure the height across
the chest or across the side of the body of a standard size elk and use
that figure in your mill calculation. I have hunted with several people
who have used Sniper rifles to take elk and deer at ranges of 600-800 yds
and I am always have to ask “is it really hunting that far away or just
shooting a target”?
It seems there is no sense of stalking or the chase. I started hunting
in Texas where virtually every game animal is killed around a feeder. After
my first trip to Idaho on a real elk hunt I learned about tracking elk,
calling them in, their relationship with each other in the herd. This is
something I could only learn from watching at a distance and limiting the
distance is shoot. During this hunt a friend shot an elk at 600 yds. I
got mine from 50yds. It is a great feeling to call in an elk and to know
he knows there is something not quite right about everything and something
like a bear or a cougar may be hunting him.
This is as close as some of us can come to hunting the only really
dangerous game so my advice is to get in close and savor the experience.
Houston, Texas, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 21:45:42 (ZULU)
When alot of Varmit shooters were coming out with "Wildcat" rounds
years ago, Remington came out with the "Accelerator" Line. They are hard
to find and i have been told by several that they had been discontinued
due to pressure by the Feds. Something about the lack rifling ballistics
on the projectile because of the sabot casing.....I guess. But anyhow,
My questions are... 1) What do you all think of these sabot rounds? 2)
Does anyone know if they are still available and where? 3) Are reloading
compontents available and where? Thanks for the space here and looking
forward to some input.
Rick <Bountyhnts@aol.com>
NH, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 22:06:15 (ZULU)
Rick...
On the Remington "Accelerator". It wasn't the Feds. When the rounds
were first anounced, law enforcement (and the national forensic society)
were very concerned about lack of rifling on the bullet, but Remington
proved that the bullets used by varmint cartridges were so fragil, that
virtually no court cases were proved because of bullet markings... there
isn't much left after impact, of a 50 grain bullet at 3600 fps... but dust!!
And should the shooter want to use the game rifle in the summer
for varmints, and be willing to re-zero, the Accelerators weren't accurate
enough to "do in" a woodie at 200 yds, unless it stood there, spread eagle,
for repeat shots.
It was the market (or lack of) that killed the Accelerator, no the
feds.
USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 23:01:11 (ZULU)
Rick,
you can load saboted .223 into any .30 cal cartridge.
Go to http://www.reloadammo.com/sabot.htm for more information.
They are claiming 1MOA groups at 100 yards, but I seriously doubt
it.
Lawton, Oklahoma, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 23:37:18 (ZULU)
Question to all:
Have any of you mounted Tasco SS on Savage long action successfully
on a Weaver type base ? If so what combination did you use.I'm looking
for good specific information pertaining only to this application not a
gross generalization .Specifically have you used the Lightforce tapered/sloped
bases.I'm trying to avoid making further bonehead decisions because my
family can't eat all these extra pieces I'm accumulating.
Bruce E. <BGENLVTEX@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Wednesday, July 21, 1999 at 23:54:42 (ZULU)
Have a quick question:
How big does the netting have to be on a ghillie for it to be effective(ive
seen some really good ones with 1/4 inch) And how big is too big? Thanks.
oh by the way, this is a poem i read at another site, kinda psycotic(sp)
Man or woman, young or old,
My sights are steady, my trigger cold,
Walk or run, laugh or cry,
You're in my AO, now you die!
TonyD
USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 02:01:01 (ZULU)
Stefan, been there and did that TWICE!! 1980 and 1981 missed 82
by 3 days - rotated back to the states from Germany!! LOVED IT!! Enjoyed
the walk, the country and the people! Met this Dutch Air Force aviation
mechanic that worked as the medic for the 7th Army team, man knew more
about feet and blisters than most doctors,kept me going the first year!!!
Old times, GREAT memories. Thanks!!
Area 51, NM, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 02:19:51 (ZULU)
Dear SniperCountry Brethren:
Denver, CO, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 02:20:24 (ZULU)
Anyone have any experiance with Steyr bgolt actions in field conditions,
especally the new SBS bolt system? It is suposed to have cuts to keep ice
& dirt from binding the action.
Jim <hampshire@mediacen.navy.mil>
USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 02:53:56 (ZULU)
Sean C:
Paul J. Headlee <pheadlee@networksplus.net>
Ogden, KS, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 03:19:00 (ZULU)
Tony the Magnet:
.
darryl <darryl.todd@eddept.wa.edu.au>
Deep South - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 04:40:03 (ZULU)
Okay, I have been reading and watching this site for about a year.
I occasionally post when I come across a question I can provide input on.
Have learned a lot from this site. But I digress. I have been shooting
a Steyr PII w/ set triggers and MK IV MI 10X. Great rifle and have won
matches with it. Last one being 1000M side match. But I was tired of having
to compete in timed sniper events against semi's especially when I shoot
left handed and have to goofy fist a right handed bolt. But I was taught
not to complain and make due with what I had so that's what I have done.
Until now. My wife, the great women that she is, gave me the go to get
a M1A Super Match. It got here yesterday. I also got a SA 6x20 3rd gen
Illum Ret. scope. I took the MK IV off of the Steyr and put the new SA
on it and took the MK IV and put it with an Enterprise steel tactical mount
and SA wide 30mm rings on the M1A. The thought being that the MK IV is
more rugged and would probably hold up better on the M1A that the SA. I
then went to the range, did the 10 shot break in with clean and dry between
shots, followed by 5 - 3 round volleys with clean and dry between shot
groups. Used M118 ammo for this. Let the barrel cool for 2 hours. Then
using the iron sites sighted in for 200 yards with a resulting group of
5/8 across x 7/16 tall for 3 shot group. Used FGM 175 gr. for this. Quit
for the day. Went back today and sighted in the scope for 200 yds. After
4 shots and adjustments shot 2 shots with the two holes overlapped into
each other. Thought this was quite acceptable but not sure what to expect.
Most of the writing I see here is either on bolt actions or 223 semis.
I then tried to shoot a 3 shoot group as quick as I could with acqusition
of target between each shot. Time taken was 4 seconds with all 3 shots
touching. I decided to quit while I was ahead and come here and ask. Is
there anything that I should have done that I haven't/didn't? Are these
results typical of the Super Match? Any other recommendations that I should
do? I respect the opinions of all so don't hold back.
Thanks and remember to take a young person with you the next time
you shoot!!!
Tony <atull@granbury.com>
Granbury, TX, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 05:19:09 (ZULU)
Hi all!!!
first of all let me just say thank you for all the advice! I appreciate
it!
The other upside to this is that I am in Mass, they are in Mass
so, I can always drive over there if necessary and rattle their cage in
person. If any of you did not know..They DO HAVE A CUSTOM SHOP at the factory...
They will make a gun to order (like MacBros stock from the factory) or
20" fluted bbl..
thanks!
seanc
Boston, ma, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 13:02:27 (ZULU)
To whoever had the 7mm question, listen to B. Wylde as if Moses
was talking. His study of the science of how to make a rifle shoot is second
to none. Thank God he doesn't have the ego of some out there...or I wouldn't
be able to afford any of the "systems" that around here we just call rifles.
Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 13:26:49 (ZULU)
This may be a dumb question but, If stabiliztion was a problem why
didnt they just make it into a real SABOT round and put fins on it?
Anthony Rhoda <aguidor@yahoo.com>
N.O., LA, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 17:12:10 (ZULU)
Anthony Rhoda...
To answer your question... some SABOTS have fins, but most REAL
SABOTS do not... fins work very poorly (except on arrows), and making them
in alignment, and keeping them aligned after the muzzle blast is dificult.
Past 900 fps, they are erratic, and they are more of a handycap than an
asset, over the speed of sound. Supersonic darts with fins are an oxymoron...
... and the current hot sabot is the 18 pound dart that is shot
out of our tanks at almost 6000 fps. No fins, just a very small conical
skirt at the base.
USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 19:49:11 (ZULU)
Bruce...
I thought the latest "weapon of choice" of 7-11 hold up "persons"
was a:
Davis-Lorcin tec-50
specs:
type: Mini-gun pistol (recently classified as "assault pistol" per
atf
action: semi-auto mini-gun
feed mechanism: disintegrating link belt or 500 round detachable
mag
Caliber: 50bmg
Atf analysis: this pistol is able to fit into the smallest of pockets.
So it is our opnion that this would be qualified as a Saturday night special/
junk gun. But being able to cut through body armor "like a hot knife though
butter" at 15 miles we would determine it be qualified as a sniper weapon.
But of course, the real issue here is the dreaded flash hider(s).......
Seanc <casler@concorde.com>
boston, ma, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 20:22:04 (ZULU)
ATTN CALIFORNIA GUN OWNERS! SB23 has passed and the governor has
signed it.
X54 <fivefour@garlic.com>
Coyote, CA, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 21:33:39 (ZULU)
I have spent the day shooting NorCals/Jerry Rice's NightHawk. Damm
the weapon can shoot. I shot ten rounds into one hole. That is something
most weapons cant do. I will say this over and over 175 Federals shoot
well in this 1x12 twist rifle. 70 degrees out and the round comes out 2720fps.
168's are at 2750 fps and one hole groups. Jerry does great work.
Calif, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 21:40:24 (ZULU)
Tony,
A good gun is a good gun regardless of who makes it. And the proof
is in the shooting. I have 2 supermatch M1A's, one might keep up with yours
the other wont. I have not had much luck with scopes on these rifles, I
have tried everything except the brookfield mount. I gave up on them and
learned to use the iron sights instead. I cant run off 20 straight shots
at 600 yards and hold sub MOA but those 6 or 7 shot strings are satisfying.
I still say that a good M1A is best for NRA service rifle competition.
And I get a big laugh out of guys that think the AR-10's and FAL's are
a better weapon.
I think you should shoot some Service Rifle competition with your
M1A. Shoot it until the NRA issue's you a Master Class card. By that time,
you will know your weapon so well that you wont want to think about what
might be out there that will outperform your M1A. There aint anything out
there that will allow you the range time that you can get with your M1A
in long range competition. There might be a few AR-1
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 22:36:49 (ZULU)
Still havent got to put my sendero through its paces yet but hope
to soon.
I did get to break in a new kimber .45 auto. what a joy. at 15 yrds
off a rest it will put 8 rnds into a 1" target dot. it has fixed sights
that are regulated perfect.
Now if i can get it to shoot at 700 yrds................
recon
Ron <recon@midusa.net>
ks, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 22:42:10 (ZULU)
last message got chopped up. So here is the rest.
Steve <nato@ bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 22:42:22 (ZULU)
Varmint hunters
Guys I live in England as some of you know and only get the chance
to shoot English game but while over here in Canada I know they have Coyotes
and was told that when they howl they sound like crying children as is
meant to sound really weird.Is this true?
Canada - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 22:50:03 (ZULU)
P.S
X-Ring is there any possibility of a review of the H.S HTR?
Daniel <awhiting@idirect.com>
Canada - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 23:16:10 (ZULU)
To all: More crap about banning guns. Now is your chance to VOTE.
Go to: popsci.com/context/features/bow/ and vote against a total ban. This
site of all things is an astronomy site!! Sorry, I don't know how to make
a hot link to the site.....Go vote anyway
JFD <jdekan@neosoft.com>
Humble, Texas, USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 23:34:22 (ZULU)
Anthony Rhoda...
"I see said the blind man... So why didn't they use that system
or is it just not feasible for small caliber use."
Machines... etc.
In WW-II, the Germans had a cartridge that was an 8mm steel cored
bullet, in a 13mm cannon case, and the 180-ish grain bullet left the gun
at about 4200 fps.
USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 23:56:43 (ZULU)
Leslie, the address for those tapered bases follows:
Lightforce
19226 66th Ave.,S,Bldg L-103
Kent, Wa. 98032
Ph. 425-656-1577
fax 425-656-1578
Portland, Ore., USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 00:47:27 (ZULU)
Steve from OH, re the M1A being THE choice for service rifle competition
-- you are out of touch with what's been going on. How about Sgt. Julia
Watson shooting a 780 (out of 800) with an AR-15?
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Livermore, CA, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 02:18:31 (ZULU)
Jim, Pablito, Mike, and Wills:
2) Get/install a Baer base.
3) Get/install a replacement stock.
4) Get mil-dots installed at Premier.
Knoxville, TN, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 02:54:22 (ZULU)
Darrell: DDDDUUUUDDDDDDEEEE! I tried to call you again at your house.
I'm going to need my Leopold Spotting Scope back, like right now. Rod and
Kent are going to make our lives miserable enough and if I show up at Storm
Mountain without a spotting scope . . . Geez , my ass is grass. Give it
up Buddy. I need it bad. You know the address!
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
In a qUANDRY in , Ohio, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 02:54:58 (ZULU)
Cool site!!!
dan <wigglewart65@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 03:07:51 (ZULU)
Buddy needs load for 1 in 8 AR 20" stainless Douglas using Berger
VLD 80gr.moly-coat using Lake City once fired brass seated to lands with
Vita Vhouri 540 does anyone have load +/- 25gr. chrono's abt 2800?Any advice
or recommended loads using this powder would be appreciated.No Pete he
doesn't want to use Varget ,I know he should.
Bruce E <BGENLVTEX@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 03:11:33 (ZULU)
Bill Wylde-- Thanks for the advice on free floating handguards (AR15).
Going to Camp Perry on 8/6 to cruise vendors' row, I'll try to pick one
up there.
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
3R, MI, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 03:16:56 (ZULU)
Steve
You seem to be interested in the history of this "sport"?? What
do you know about the Whitworth with the Davidson Telescopic Sight? Interested
in any reference, books, museums, ect. that might have one. Even bs stories
about really long shots.
Elks am a little bigger than 18" - 25" across the chest.
See you at Gillette.
PL <nrdwr.plakin@state.ut.us>
Whiterocks, Utah, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 04:42:08 (ZULU)
Just to satisfy my eternal curiousity... Most things issued by the
military are from the lowest bidder and usually aren't the best items on
the market. That being said, are the sniper weapon systems REALLY the best
OR is it due to hard work from the armorers after the fact ??
Since my experience with SWS was w/M-21's and that was after Mr
Jarret's time and before Triggers, my knowledge is "out of date" at best.
I have been very fortunate with my last to purchases of Remingtons and
before that extremely lucky with Rugers. I'd like to add a M1a or a AR-10
to my gear but from what I have seen they like to inhale/consume vast quantities
of ammo and I already do that with my bolt rifles. Just wondering about
the current equipment.
Last, tried sabots more than once, both Acellerators and "load your
own"..still have probably 750 or so sabots somewhere in a box...ITS NOT
WORTH THE EFFORT...main problem is seating the bullet in the sabot the
same depth and in line each time...and I tried 45,50,55 60,62gr projectiles
from almost all the major makers. Still couldn't get accetable accuracy.
True lesson in frustration. If I want to shoot varmints with my 308's will
use a 125 gr BT !!!!!!! Oh yeah, anyone concerned about the shine of stainless
steel barrels...either read the article by Dave Reed or email me. THERE
IS a simple solution that WORKS !!
OUT HERE
Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
Hot & Humid, ALA, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 04:47:59 (ZULU)
Howdy All
Iam sure I could benifit of your "been there,done that" knowledge.
I recently aquired a Remmington 700 VLS 243(laminated stock) of
recent manufacter,new,unfired for a bargin price.
I have a leopould 4.5x20 vx3 thats been looking for a home.
So thats taken care.
Question is,
Whats more likly to result in a better MOA?
Have the local smith (does good work) bed and float it?
Or buy a pss type synthetic type stock with the bedding block from
the get go?
Do you suppose the two would be about equal for a 3-500 yard plinker.
Were would you Guys with the wisom of experience put your money?
Do you think .5 moa would be a reasonble expectation?
USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 05:05:18 (ZULU)
DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF MICHAEL'S OF OREGON HAS A WEBSITE.
IF NOT, IS THERE A PHONE # THEY CAN BE REACHED AT?
I'M INTERESTED IN THEIR FLUSH CUP SYSTEM THE USMC IS NOW USING ON
THEIR M-40A4'S.
cox, ny, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 05:25:52 (ZULU)
Armorer...
Your e-mail address is NG!
Michaels of Oregon is... 503-557-0536, in Portland OR.
USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 07:33:04 (ZULU)
Well, 110 heat index at the range tomorrow. I think I will do a
reverse cryo job on all the barrels. Heat treating barrel may start a new
trend. Will let you know the results. Never seen a white hot barrel, may
be interesting. Of course my next idea is to turn on the air in the truck
and shoot out of the window, making sure to roll it down first. The best
idea is to take beer and no gun and watch the other poor bastards sweat.
USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 09:43:39 (ZULU)
Pab! QUIET Dude!!!! ;-) Do not list the things the FAA needs to
do or some bespecticled a**wipe will submit the ideas into the Federal
Register and try to make 'em law! I kid you not! LOL!
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 11:56:57 (ZULU)
And PAb, by the way, your list was funny as hell! Good commentary
and assessment on the total stupidiy of this less than logical system we
call the government, where anything can be Law as long as it makes us "feel
good".
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 12:11:41 (ZULU)
Pat, There is alot of good stuff worth reading out there on the
Whitworth. The stuff I can remember off the top of my head is this.
They were used by the Confederates in the Civil war. They were made
by Parker-Hale in England and the Confederate government paid 500 in gold
for each one. Being so expensive, they didnt give one of these rifles to
anyone, Competition was fierce among the troops to earn the right to use
this rifle. The rifling was unusual in that it was hexagonal, it was .45
caliber, and used paper patched bullets.
The Davidson scope was a detachable side mount and about 4x power.
There is a original rifle on display at the Confederate Museum in Richmond,
Virginia. The original Davidson setup, was designed for use in the nineteenth
century reclining back rest position.
One of the most famous shots of the war was the shooting of a Union
General, I think it might have been General Sedwick, I forgot the battle,
came under sniper fire and as he was trying to urge his troops forward,
said, "Come on boys, they could not hit an elephant at this dista,,,,,"
He took a bullet in the head and didn't finish the sentence.
To Counter the Confederate threat, a Union officer by the name of
Berdan, organized a group of sharpshooters, and set a target shooting exhibition
in front of President Lincoln to try to convince the Union Gov. to appropriate
funds for some Sharps rifles. The best shot of the war in my book was made
by Berdan, shooting at a man-sized Jeff Davis target at 600 yards. He put
one right thru the eye of the target, on call, offhand, in front of the
President. He got his rifles.
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 12:54:47 (ZULU)
Wills,
Sgt. Julia Roberts should have met Spec.4 Karen Monez when she was
in her prime. And Karen would have whipped her butt without cheating!
Tell me, which branch of the armed forces uses the 80 gr. bullets
for the .223 in a standard issue load?
Steve <nato@ bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 13:08:16 (ZULU)
UL; Your probably right about the Elk measurements and I'm sure
your right about the holes getting punched in them. I've never shot at
one over 40 yards. Having used a bow for All My elk hunting except one
occasion where I didnt shoot at all. But anyway. If one uses Mil Dot's
on Elk it should be to determine if they are within 300 yards.
Just might mention that Match Kings are not, not, not Elk bullets.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 13:20:03 (ZULU)
Scott...
I wish I could take credit, but the "Experts" on general aviation
have already started the listing of new laws that would have "prevented"
this tragedy... who are they? Experienced pilots... nah!
FAA crash inspectors... Nah! The Aircraft and instrument makers...
Nah!
It's the bleached blond, fluffed hair, know it all, Anchor Bimbos
From Hell, of that 6:00 o'clock entertainment phenomena know as the evening
news... and their friends in the government... the ones that talk about
banning "assault bolt action rifles" (thank you Ms. Feinstein). I thought
the kid was OK (considering he was a Kennedy, he was a saint)... but this
past week will give the non-shooting pilots a taste of what we've been
going through for 30 years.
USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 13:40:23 (ZULU)
Pat, Re Whitworth rifle cont.
I am ashamed of my failing memory.
The Federal general's name was Major General John Sedgwick and he
was killed at the battle of Spotsylvania.
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 15:26:44 (ZULU)
Yes there is irony in that one! Yuppies eating yuppies!
Looking for an Elk to measure just to be sure we desiminate accurate
information. TGIF in Kansas.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 16:45:10 (ZULU)
Wills,
HOT! - SE, IL, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 16:54:06 (ZULU)
Way up the roster some mention was made about an ANTI coming on
here and having at it. Best thing you can do is just ignore these morons.
You can not change their mind. They are too indoctrinated. All you’ll do
is waste your precious time trying to talk to a brick wall. Keep in mind
that to the unknowing, the term SNIPER has always been a four letter word
and associated with hoodlums and cretins. They care little that the reality
is that the real sniper is a dedicated troop or law enforcement officer
doing his best to save lives. If you just feel you just HAVE to reply to
them, do not rant and rave like they do. Try to simply explain, in slow
rational terms, what the reality is. If you yell back, it only gives them
more ammunition to paint you as a nut. The bitch obviously misses the fact
that a large portion of the visitors here are actually police and military.
Never forget that in the movies -- the place where 99% of America gets
their ideas about snipers -- the sniper is almost alway portrayed as a
fringe element or evil "serb" or villian who prays on the innocent. Bosnia
has not helped this image as the locals seemed to thrive on this behavior.
If you can not let it go, then at least take the time to give them the
real history. Lowering ourselves to their level will solve little.
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 17:34:19 (ZULU)
Wills,
USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 17:37:56 (ZULU)
I really enjoy reading your postings and I too am a sharpshooting
and fully automatic weapons enthusiast. I particularly love some of the
HK sniper rifles, and the one american 50cal that the SEALs use. I'm also
partiall to a good sub machine gun or assault rifle now and then, and most
AK models or perhaps the AR15 (that's before it was taken by Colt and modified
into the M16...) would be enough to keep me feeling safe on the battlefield...
well, not SAFE exactly, because I would hate to go into combat (unless
for my country), but safe-ER.
One more thing, I have an assault weapons digest that my friend
ordered that has a picture and description of a gun with a slightly bent
barrel that the Germans created to be able top shoot over trenches and
around corners... hmm... an assault weapon that shoots around corners???
heh,the words, "fire and forget" come to mind, except this time they don't
refer to missiles, they refer to "fire" without looking at your target,
and "forget" about making it out of combat alive!
heheh, just a thought, talk to you guys later. If anyone trys to
sell you a gun with a bent barrel, you have been warned!
War torn Encino, CA, USA (forever, baby!) - Friday, July 23, 1999 at
18:53:57 (ZULU)
Al O.
HOLD YOUR FIRE!!!!!
Dude, relax. No one is going to be ripping you off, Ok. So lets
get that clear right now.
Hang on till I get back to that shit hole state & all the stuff
will be shipped next day service.
Man, I might be an ass-hole, but not THAT big of an ass-hole.......
Ain't going to happen.
Check you E-mail and lets get things taken cared of off the air
here.
Man, talk about feeling like I just got smoked!!!!
Hi guys!!! I'm back for a while again. Wait, COME BACK!!!!!!!
I won't be stirring up the pot too much this time. Gotta go for
another interview & drug screening. Let the Doc pick at my brain to
see if I'm whacked or not.
Damn, this police dept. thing is one big "hurry-up & wait" game.
Hey man. It was good talking to ya. Good to see ya still around
these parts. Drop me a line and lets catch up on what all's going on.
I mean, it's all about love here, ain't it? ;-)
Where I should be, In Kansas!!! Not Chicago, USA - Friday, July 23,
1999 at 19:39:57 (ZULU)
Tasco SS10X42 "mil-dot" Scope
JB <jbarrier@juno.com>
WA, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 20:12:15 (ZULU)
Hot weather shooting thing again.........
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 21:08:18 (ZULU)
Bolt, go shoot how will you know what your gun will do in the heat
just don't shoot one right after another. People don't stop shooting because
it gets hot.
Mike <Mikeroyexc@aol.com>
Mountains of, MT, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 21:41:01 (ZULU)
Bolt, shooting in heat can be a bear, but with heat comes wind and
wind takes that nasty mirrage away. I do not mind the heat if I can get
a nice constant 5mph wind. Just dope it and shoot. Watch the signs for
the wind. If it is dead but comes up to 5mph every so often watch it build,
roll into position and let it go.
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.Com>
Calif, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 22:54:19 (ZULU)
Bolt; 110 is hot but what's 20 degrees to a Sniper Rifle? That chamber
is burning a lot hotter than that. I don't think the danger of burning
out a barrel is a valid thing but get some more opinions.
I'd have to scrap a lot of Prairie dog guns if hot mattered much.
USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 23:05:16 (ZULU)
Bolt..
Sounds like your gunsmith didn't have an answer to back up his statement.
I'm no authority on anything dealing with firearms, but I would expect
a better answer then sarcasm..
Bruce Hilsabeck <bruceh@ionet.net>
Lawton, Oklahoma, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 23:19:09 (ZULU)
Bolt:
Leslie <lbright@utk.edu>
TN, USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 23:59:15 (ZULU)