Sniper Country Duty Roster

'Lito and other Brit Bike Fans

www.nortonhogslayer.com

UnPat

UnPat
Very Tired, USA - Sunday, July 1, 2007, at 00:35:18 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Do you guys have 'strike anywhere' matches out your way? I can't seem to find any in CO. Ohio Blue Tips are the best.

Duman
Sunday, July 1, 2007, at 01:48:07 (ZULU)

Sarge....just went to Natchez and they're showing the refurbs for $209, and they're out of stock.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, July 1, 2007, at 02:31:31 (ZULU)

Duman,

Was that by way of wagon train? ;-))

My mail server has been know to be very sporadic. I'm sure the file will be here within the next week or so. Don't you just love the new AT&T??

Thanks,

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Sunday, July 1, 2007, at 05:37:56 (ZULU)

JC,

Just try to cancel a service with AT&T/Yahoo. They'll argue with you endlessly, put you on hold indefinitely, etc.. I'm gonna advise them I'm recording the conversation next time, then let them know I'll be contacting a lawyer for harassment proceedings if they continue to fuck with me.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, July 1, 2007, at 07:48:11 (ZULU)

Click my name to see some guys gaining instant(unforgettable) wisdom.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, July 1, 2007, at 09:29:35 (ZULU)

This one gives some insight on the previous.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, July 1, 2007, at 09:39:51 (ZULU)

Travis,

SBC/Yahell...Been there,done that.At our previous residense we had SBC DSL,Their service was marginal,and when we decided to move to our present location we ran into all sorts of problems...We are to far from the hub for DSL...Even tho we contacted them and gave them the address to run a check to see if DSL was available,the contact on the other end assured us DSL WAS available at the address...Two years later,it STILL isnt available....

And then we were issued a phone number that was still active under someone else's account...The kids would call and leave a message,only to have the message deleted...and we got the other guys messages...I could dial the home number from work and get an adult male voice on the phone...And I AM the only adult male that lives here....Thinkin somethin was happening at home,I would call the house number from a cell phone and still get the adult male's voice while I was sitting at my own desk...Numerous calls to them to straighten things out,they would come out and find nothing wrong...This went on for 3 months.Finally we stopped payin the phone bill.We informed them when they could and would provide the service we agreed too,We would pay them.Havent heard a word from them in 2 years.And we now use the Road Runner One service....Phone,internet,cable on one bill....My condolances to those that still have to suffer with the phone company's crap.Soo glad I have one less frustration to deal with now.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Sunday, July 1, 2007, at 16:32:49 (ZULU)

4x4 country,

Looks like al quaeda likes Jeeps. They didn't do their homework though, Jeeps apparently don't do too well ramming thru airport entrance barriers..Killed the engine before making the destination, typical Jeep. But I reckon they should've stayed in the Jeep, as even though it was on fire, would have been safer inside than the Glaswegian public standing outside the entrance..Al Qaeda got an ass kicking on Saturday, Glasgee style, HA!

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Sunday, July 1, 2007, at 16:44:26 (ZULU)

JC,

I sent the email/file immediately after my post. If you don't see it today, i'll copy it into 'word' format, then resend. Maybe if I send it from my work email.....?

I made the mistake of trying to install some 'Yahoo' application on my computer. It took over my system, like a plague, and now I can't 'uninstall' the damned stuff. It's worse than a virus.

Found a source for 'strike anywhere's'. Apparently they're illegal in some states.

Duman
Sunday, July 1, 2007, at 19:13:35 (ZULU)

Duman,

Just in case I made a type it's JerryLCopelandATbellsouthDOTnet.

Just put the correct symbols where they need to be. But I ain't tellin' you anything ya don't already know.

Thanks,

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Monday, July 2, 2007, at 04:38:22 (ZULU)

All -- PISTOL RAFFLE IS LIVE!!! This one's for our American Snipers... Be sure to stop by.

CHECKOUT: http://www.pistolraffle.com

or click on my name.

Take care

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Monday, July 2, 2007, at 11:56:27 (ZULU)

Ticket bought.

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Monday, July 2, 2007, at 14:27:28 (ZULU)

Ahhh Good to be back i the good ol USA again. Just got back from a gig in Romania. I forgot how much I hate those long flights.

Saw nothing but Muslims in the airport in Amsterdam. Even the damn ticket agents. GEEZ!

Well anyway, I finally got to Transylvania and seen Bran Castle. Dracula was not home.

I must say the mountains there are beautiful.

The Romanians are loving their freedom very much. I saw capitalism booming in the cities. Just five years, there is a huge difference.

Oh well, needed to check in. Hope all here are fine. Back to the grindstone.

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Monday, July 2, 2007, at 15:45:34 (ZULU)

Duman, I hadn't seen too much of that myself, but that sounds right-o. And here all this time I thought dilbert was written by someone with a cubicle in the same building I used to work in! If you need to be ‘set up’ with good matches, let me know. I buy them at the local Sportsmans Whorehouse. Actually, Albertsons had a close-out on off-brand strike-anywhere matches, so I got ‘em all (enough to do years and years) but SW does carry blue tip.

CDC, could be you have a winner there, I hope so. In my past, I’ve had problems with stoves tumping over when least expected (I pawned it off as the biscuits had ‘ground pepper’ on them – and it was true, it was GROUND pepper LOL!) so a comparative stability rating would be appreciated too! When I changed over to Nalgene bottles, I got stainless steel canteen cups that nest on the bottles as well. They’re good to go. Should have gotten titanium, but man that’s high dollar gear.

Steve, sounds right! I picked Bub up almost midnight on Saturday, he didn’t get his pig, but he had quite a good time trying between rainstorms. Won't be long before I can get him his deer license here (GRIN). I'm just going to learn from others, and not buy a Remmie model 7 right off the bat LOL!

Jim, I ran the 30-06 dial at BadLands, same as I've been running for a while. Here's the funky of it.... I built these rounds to get the muzzle velocity right where it was before, this time changing to Lapua brass. So far, so good. What was tracking the 30-06 dial perfectly here though (on the old stuff, I didn't verify anything other than grouping and velocity with the new stuff, ran out of time due to SCOPE RING FAILURE!!!), wound up being flatter shooting in Okie-homie. I needed to take off 1/2 MOA at 300 to 500, a full MOA at 600 and 700, then 2 MOA from 800 on to 1K. And no, I can't explain it. I don't know if my balance got bumped between calibration verifications (but I highly doubt that), it was the elevation, heat, humidity, air density or what, but it appears these rounds were hotter. Certainly flatter. Now add another factor in: I punched one primer out there. The primer didn't pierce, but it sure did come out. On later examination, it appears there was some trace leakage on some of the other empties as well. I don't know if it's a Winchester primer in Lapua brass thing, a gasgun thing, or a chamber pressure thing, but it IS a thing that needs to be fixed! So I figure that I'll verify that my average velocity really is 2681 fps (what I chronoed before) and that it shoots that flat here. If so, I need to back off the charge (if it's the same velocity, I need to go to a slower dial) or just use Varget and forget about 'improvement'. BTW, the Varget gave me a bit more oprod bump than the H4895, that's why I opted to go with the 4895. Not bad, but I thought I'd save wear and tear when possible.

Truck Country: my folks retired and sold their home many years ago. The money from that sale upgraded (traded in on new) the RV and truck - they live where they want to live in the spring, summer, and fall, traversing the country. Then back to 'the land of no snow' for winters. The Ford Dad bought now has a slew of miles on it (to the point that he's now putting off major PM 'cause the idea is to trade it off at the end of the year) and the only failures I can remember were when some kind of animal (literally here) chewed through part of the wiring harness that included wires to the crankshaft position sensor when they were out in the middle of nowhere, and the multi-switch on the turn signal (lights, high-low beams, and all that other crap on the handle) gave way giving them no headlights. Dad wired in a jake-brake (exhaust brake) when it was new, and threw the GearVendors (http://www.gearvendors.com/) under/over drive from the previous truck (really!) and went to it. I was driving this rig going over St.Augustine pass between 'Cruces and WSMR - it never cared in the least about the incline or load, and the RV he's got on there is the longest made in that style. Care to guess what brand of truck he'll buy when he trades this one off?

Bravo
Monday, July 2, 2007, at 19:25:10 (ZULU)

Bravo,

In my 300WM using Lapua brass I found I was getting pressure signs before I would've expected them with my old W-W brass. I've also noted that looking at primer 'flatness' as a sign of pressure doesn't work with the (my) Lapua brass. I was getting a sticky bolt and the primers looked perfect.

Heres a question you may be able to help with. I have limited temperature data for my current load and was hoping to be able to extrapolate what data I do have to cover temperatures I'm not likely to see all that often or for another 6 months. Heres the question, does velocity variance due to powder temperature change at a uniform rate, say 'x'fps per 10 degrees, or does the amount of change vary, i.e. the hotter it gets the more the variance difference over a 10 degree temp change?

Cheers

Jon

P.S. I'm using RL22

Jon Beardsely
Welshman in exile, England, UK - Monday, July 2, 2007, at 20:12:03 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Thx, and good job for bubba. give him a hi-5.\

sorry for the poor typing, just had a bicycle accident, jammed another finger. with all these spl;ints, i'm looking like edward scissor-hands.

JC, file was sent ~5 mins ago. I copied and pasted your name, subbed the @ and . maybe the L is wrong? :8-p

Duman
Monday, July 2, 2007, at 21:40:00 (ZULU)

Jon re:temperature data

You can also use a cooler and ice to chill your ammunition

(in a plastic bag to keep out the water) to get lower temperature field data too.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, July 3, 2007, at 01:13:25 (ZULU)

Duman and 'CDC,

Got the file, but like CDC I only got the data. I think it has something to do with the error msg that comes up when the excel file is opened. It states that "One or more worksheets in this workbook have names that contain square brackets:[]. To avoid unexpected results when referencing these worksheets, remove the any square brackets from their names."

But thanks for all the data. ;-))

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Tuesday, July 3, 2007, at 05:24:24 (ZULU)

Jon: try working up a load with Varget, it's hardly temp sensitive at all, at least at temps you can shoot in without stroking out. If you do want to keep ammo in a cooler, just use blue ice blocks, no water involved. You only have to keep it at morning ambient temps, not colder'n a tax collector's heart.....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, July 3, 2007, at 07:02:44 (ZULU)

Looks like I'm actually beating BK to the punch here.

Guys, a raffle just opened up for the benefit of AmericanSnipers.org. How'd ya like a stab at a top-end custom 1911 for $10? No? OK, what if it came with a few extras, like oh, maybe a Chris Reeve knife, Loopy 10X50 binocs, a case o' Black Hills ammo, Safariland duty rig and a custom sharkskin concealment rig from Alex Nossar, a mini-Rifle Rest from CenterMasss, a Starlight case, a decommissioned flag, cleaning and maint. gear, some classes with Henk Iverson (if the winner is police or military), and a sh'load of other stuff? And this 1911 is no slouch-- it's cycling though most of the LTW shops (Louder Than Words, a consortiom of custom 'smiths who specialize in the 1911)and is being built as a hard-knocks duty pistol. The whole package is being put together as if it were going to ship out with one of AmericanSnipers.org's own.

Check it out at

http://www.pistolraffle.com

Edit: hut-ho, I was reading from the top down, I see Ken beat me to it!

Ned Christiansen
Tuesday, July 3, 2007, at 15:03:41 (ZULU)

FN SPR Gen I: Love the riffle. I love the pre-64 style Mod 70 action, I love the barrel despite the 1:12 twist limits, I love the HS stock--

But I hate the damned FN magazine with a passion. The feed lips "center" cartridges, and the pinch means that the only way to place additional rounds is to drop and replace with another 100-plus dollar 4 rounder, or remove and shove the round in front to rear. I was able to feed one in the chamber, and replace it for a 5 round string fairly quickly---but that SCLE my wife was using made that process simplistic in comparison. I guess i got jealous.

CDC: Still working--no, make that "project on hold"--on the reloading room. Final drywall prep, shelf hanging, door mounting is left before I start setting up the presses.

Peanut's new-found love of western riding and barrel racing has me landscaping for a new arena and travelling to shows with all that entails...the wife's conspircy to keep me thin, i suppose. This, and all the other damned honey-do's kept me out of the basement project

1/4 mil footballs are helpful if a gen II is not in your scope. NF's MLR reticle is bright sun is betterer than genII IMHO. Wish i had three or four of the nightforce scopes. Of course, the cheeckrest would need another foam insert...50mm might not workie in the rings I am running. It'd be real, real close.

Side note: Listen to the rants against the commutation of Libby's sentence. Read the wording of why people find this objectionable. Christ almighty, if these comments don't cement the case for "political prosecutions"---nothing will. We used to bag on the Soviets for their political prisoners and prosecutions. How far we have fallen from our ideals...Notice that I did not say that the underlying charges were false, only the arguments made now (and by the judge at sentencing) as to why Libby should be in jail are purely political and side squarely on charges never brought to court. Reid said it best: (paraphrased) "this was an opportunity to hold this administration accountable for their conduct" Hmmm. Now there's an interesting take on justice if ever there was one. And this clown swore an oath to the constitution?

Bravo: I agree completely with the charges and sentence for such conduct....wink.

editied to add: Scope focusing! I thought they were OK...but by loosening the lock ring and playing with it at various ranges and conditions, I fine tuned it to many turns out from where it was. That surprised me (so much adjustment)--and what a diff it made overall. I guess i got used to the slow fade as my eyes fail over time...and just assumed it was supposed to be this way. Only issue now is the focus is set with my shooting glasses (new grind)--and these are now mandatory.

Joe M
Tuesday, July 3, 2007, at 16:34:43 (ZULU)

Ok, Now that the 4th is almost here, I would like to say thanks to all those that served. However the bad side of this is I feel the rags will start something here in this country on that date. They have targeted places in the UK recently. And now it is our turn again. Do not let your guards down and be aware that secondary devises are all way possible. This will either move the country to the right or bitch slap it to the left. In the case of the latter we are screwed.

JoeM, Is Peanut doing Western Pleasure (competitive) or just trail riding? I trail ride an Old Barrel horse. She is only 10yrs. The person I got here from wants me to continue but it just don't look right a guy riding in that event. I know a guy that does because he rides a nice(fast) horse and wins the jackpots. But that aint fer me. My horse can scoot across the pasture though.

Libby? They fuss at the President for what he did. What a crock. Look at the criminals Clinton pardoned. Hell, I bet he was paid handsomely for them. He pardoned Mark Rich, the guy owed millions to the IRS in Taxes. Monet that could have bought our troops alot of tools for thier trade. I don't even think aabout justice anymore. There is No such thing, or it is extremely rare these days. Justice is carried on the backs of a few of the Spotted Owls it seems.

Dirty Steve............

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Tuesday, July 3, 2007, at 18:01:25 (ZULU)

Jon, yeah, what was ‘normal’ appears hot in the Lapua, and I’m not sure why. Exactly like you said, the primers (even the popped one!) looked just perfect – no flattening or atypical cratering. That’s why I say it’s difficult for me to say what’s wrong. On your temperature stuff though, there’s no set rule for that. The rule of thumb is that the reaction will double per 10 degree increase, but I can tell you from experience that the rule of thumb (the scale anyway) doesn’t apply as such to powders. I know that I’ve had ball powder loads that were NICE at room temperature, but were excessively heavy at over 100F. I wanted to do some TGA/DSC work with powders to get the real skinny, but the guys in that department get kind of concerned when it comes to me playing with their expensive toys and gunpowder. But, but, but – it’s only a leeeeetle ignition! Heck, there was even one pistol powder that went the opposite way – higher velocities at low temperature. Looking at the reaction as purely that, I’ll make some broad generalizations though – the velocity difference between 60F and 70F should be less than the difference between 90F and 100F. On Varget, when asked at BL about my load I mentioned that I used H4895 for these, as it was a touch faster than Varget but almost as temperature stable. The reply I got was ‘not out here it’s not’. That appeared to be the case as well. When those guys say ‘nothing has been as stable as Varget out here’, I tend to believe them LOL! Oh, and I’ll make one other comment, even though it might make some people upset – I don’t like Alliant powders. I’m cutting my own throat (well, kind of – it’s not like I have a profit-sharing program here) by saying that, but Alliant doesn’t build as good of a powder as others IMO. To be honest though, they do build powders better than some.

Pistol raffle? Sure. I’ll use the same logic on this raffle that Patron Yote Bait used on shooting yotes one-handed out of a moving truck: a bullet has to go somewhere, you might just get lucky ;-)

Ideal long range rig country: I've been banging my head on a way to get a long range rig under 10 pounds all-up for a while now. Can't seem to figure it out either. Yesterday I was talking with Geoff Corn about such things, and he told me that he figures I'm going the wrong way.... better to exhaust myself humping a hefty stick and make the shot 'cause a heavy stick just 'lays' better, than to have an easy hump and miss the shot. Now I'll agree that some heft does help the stick just lay better, but what's the optimum weight here? I figure there might be something comparative - Geoff is a big 'ol boy, and I'm flatly not that tall. Or maybe it's just that I'm used to the weight and balance of a GI M14. Oh, and before I forget, Geoff said that there's an outfit making good custom fiberglass stocks (good as McMillan) that I ought to look into. He said Manter or Mantir, but I can't find anything on the web when I search for that. Any ideas?

Bravo
Tuesday, July 3, 2007, at 18:35:29 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve: She rode barrels, first time in front of folks, three weeks ago! And pole thing-a-ma-doos. She kinda walked the pony, but let 'er rip on the way back.

Bravo: It depends on where the weight is, I suppose.

Joe M
Tuesday, July 3, 2007, at 19:46:58 (ZULU)

Bravo,

He's talking about Manners stocks I imagine...triple dublya mannersstocks dot com..

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Tuesday, July 3, 2007, at 21:50:01 (ZULU)

Click my name. Funny stuff. Spew alert.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, July 3, 2007, at 22:35:51 (ZULU)

HAPPY 4th Y'ALL

I plan on doing my patriotic duty tomorrow and exercise my Second Amendment rights. May God bless the USA and the Revolution that made it possible.

No offense to my Brit friends here. ; )

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, July 4, 2007, at 00:40:40 (ZULU)

Bravo:

The reaction rate rule of thumb is for bulk reactants. Powders have a lot of surface chemistry involved, which gives all sorts of snakey effects.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, July 4, 2007, at 00:46:27 (ZULU)

Take time to read this. If enacted could cause some serious problems for shooters. http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?PRloc=common/PR/&PR=BP070207.cfm

HDR
OK, - Wednesday, July 4, 2007, at 02:25:31 (ZULU)

Bravo: If you can get your rifle under 12 lbs, you're doing good. After that, well, IMHO Mr. Corn is correct. As for carrying it, the higher (as in on the shoulders, as opposed to down around yer byew-tocks)the better. Go to Kifaru.com and look at their rifle holster. Puts the rifle right under your arm, muzzle up and forward, with a QD that lets it drop right where you want it, fast. It's GTG. Get it mounted up, and start walking the walk with the weight. Or just put some extra cans in the ruck if the local constabulary gets pissy about you carrying a GUN. The deputies around here just honk and wave; sometimes they stop and make fun of the old man and ask if they should start an ambulance.....ha. ha. ha.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, July 4, 2007, at 06:48:55 (ZULU)

Thanks for the replies guys. Looks like I'll have to just try the things out at the different temps., eh? I like the idea of the cool box though.

I've fancied having a play with the Hodgdon powders because of the advertised temperature stability. Varget is a bit quick for the 300WM though. In my tests I've discovered (for me any way) the use of magnum primers just about doubles my ES figures over standard primers. I can get away with using standard primers with RL22, but with H4831SC I get sooty cases and a dirty, horrible bore, unless I use the magnum primer. I've been wanting to try H1000, but assume as its slower than the H4831 it'll definately need the hotter spark. I'd be interested to hear what other magnum shooters have found with trying to keep ESs and SDs down when needing to use magnum primers.

Some of the Alliant powders have become akin to rocking horse shit over here, and if rumours are correct it sounds like it'll be that way for a good while yet. Maybe time to look at alternatives.

Bravo,

With my first batch of Lapua brass I noticed it had one hell of a 'grip'. I always run new brass through a K&M expander to round them out. I lubed the mandrel and the case mouths with Imp. sizing wax. Well, the mandrel went in a bit stiff and getting the thing out was a nightmare. Had to bash away at the handle on the press. Also when selecting bushings, to get the 2-3 thou neck tension I had to go with a bushing 1 thou OVER loaded diameter!! I was wondering if the same properties are found at the other end and the primer pocket keeps a damn good hold of the primer. This second batch I'm into doesn't seem anywhere near as bad, but I haven't pushed the loads with it to test the primers; did that with the last lot.

Thanks again fellas. Off back to Wales for a few days as of today. JR, if your reading, got the burgers and sausages last night. They smell good. Think you, I mean we, will have to give them a try soon!! How you looking for the weekend after next?

Jon

Jon Beardsley
Welshman in exile, England, UK - Wednesday, July 4, 2007, at 10:41:36 (ZULU)

HDR, That's so stupid it may just pass. Searching every customer that goes some place to buy ammo for lighters? How F-Uped is that nonsense.

JoeM, If Peanut has a good horse. Please take the time to insure it. I had a co-worker get in an accident and could not get the Insurance of the at fault driver to cover the 25K price of the horse.

DIrtySteve.........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Wednesday, July 4, 2007, at 17:51:26 (ZULU)

re: hand-carts for IPSC 3-gun matches

Any favourite products for hand-carts for IPSC 3-gun matches?

(Vendors, model #, URL's?)

I'm thinking about products that bear a vague resemblance (or are adaptions) to/of a golf hand-cart.

Ideal would be a kit that could be applied to a locally-purchased golf hand-cart.

TIA

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, July 4, 2007, at 21:26:52 (ZULU)

I step away for a bit and come back to find this place hoppin.

I got my SCLE rifle back from George in record time before he moved his shop. I think he only had it for two weeks. It's now a 26" barreled .243 (7.5 twist Rock) with a Badger brake and the Badger detachable box mag floor plate that accepts the AI mags. Not cheap but it's a really nice setup. Full blown gamers rig I guess and my buddies are giving me lots of shit for it but I don't mind.

I got it broken in with four shots and it quit holding copper. Then I started some three shot groups and it's a freakin' tack driver. At 100 yards I can pick out a bullet hole and hit it. It doesn't have any kind recoil either just a small vibration. Starting at about 250 to 300 yards I can see the bullet impact on target. I'm shooting 115 DTACS at somewhere around 3,000 fps. I can't tell exactly because this was one of the days when my Pact chrony decided not to detect the bullet. It does that sometimes.

Unfortunately I had problems with the scope I planned on using and couldn't get it all worked out in time for the big match this weekend. I'm going to have to bring my .260 that I've been using but that's not a sacrifice. That rifle shoots really tight and I know it well. I'm just pissed off because I've got close to 1,700 in this rebuild including all of the reloading goodies and I did it specifically for this match. That's what I get for trying to rush things. For me, one weekend is not enough time to bring an entirely new rifle online.

According to the JBM calculations page I should have about 25 moa to 1K from this .243 load. If true that will beat my .260 load (142 SMK @ 2,800) by about 4.5 moa. It will be interesting to see what I lose in barrel life for such a small increase in performance.

Gotta go clean guns from this mornings range session. I think the best way to celebrate this holiday is by sending lead down range!

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Wednesday, July 4, 2007, at 22:18:26 (ZULU)

Rod...

Check out http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/home.php Links are on the left.

To All: A Happy and Safe 4th.

UnPat

UnPat
Freedom, The Best - Thursday, July 5, 2007, at 00:32:40 (ZULU)

re: 3-gun cart

Hi UnPat:

I was thinking more along the lines of 3-gun, not High Power matches.

Found this, looks interesting:

http://ruggedgear.com/shooting_cart.php

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, July 5, 2007, at 03:49:57 (ZULU)

HDR " Take time to read this. If enacted could cause some serious problems for shooters. http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?PRloc=common/PR/&PR=BP070207.cfm"

HDR, All - time to get on the phone/fax to our Senators/Congressmen and squash this sh*t before it gets started.... Where do they come up with this stuff....

Happy 4th all -- don't forget the reason -- although it seems some folks have - LOL....

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Thursday, July 5, 2007, at 04:10:36 (ZULU)

Rod...

Twice as attractive at half the price...

History Country:THE 4TH OF JULY

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men

Who signed the Declaration of Independence?

Five signers were captured by the British as traitors,

And tortured before they died.

Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned.

Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army;

Another had two sons captured.

Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or

Hardships of the Revolutionary War.

They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes,

And their sacred honor.

What kind of men were they?

Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists.

Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large

Plantation owners; men of means, well educated,

But they signed the Declaration of Independence

Knowing full well that the penalty would be death if

They were captured.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw

His ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold

His home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.

Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British

That he was forced to move his family almost constantly.

He served in the Congress without pay, and his family

Was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken fro m him,

And poverty was his reward.

Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall,

Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and

Middleton.

At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that

The British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson

Home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General

George Washington to open fire. The home was

Destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt.

Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed.

The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few

Months.

John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was

Dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and

His gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he

Lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife

Dead and his children vanished. Some of us take these

Liberties so much for granted, but we shouldn't.

So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July

Holiday and silently thank these patriots. It's not much to

Ask for the price they paid.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Thursday, July 5, 2007, at 05:15:57 (ZULU)

Syrian troops enter Lebanon, fortify positions to depth of three kilometres

July 5, 2007, 10:51 AM (GMT+02:00)

Lebanese security sources report the intruding force backed by bulldozers has taken up position near Yanta in east Lebanon’s Beqaa Valley and is digging hundreds of trenches and bunkers in more than one area along the Lebanese border. This explains why Syria Wednesday reopened the Joussia-Qaa border post. Damascus-backed Palestinian radicals have been fighting Lebanese troops for close to two months in the still unresolved battle of Nahr al-Bared near Tripoli.

Gooch
Thursday, July 5, 2007, at 17:35:41 (ZULU)

A 'lito definition... you heard it here furst!

Politics...

The arena that egomaniacal children use to fight in, for the possession of toys that they are too immature to play with!

They better come up with better candidates, or this election will be the worst in history.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, July 5, 2007, at 20:21:06 (ZULU)

'Lito,

That reminds me of the time I saw Lester Thurow openly suggest turning national defense, including nukes, over to private enterprise.

Gotta love the ivy league.

Duman
Friday, July 6, 2007, at 04:32:10 (ZULU)

Unpat- That was good. Thank you.

Crotch rocket riders- Some poor bastard ran his bike into a Taco Bell at 100 mph. Several pics on the link below but be warned this is very graphic stuff.

http://www.motohouston.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31256

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Friday, July 6, 2007, at 05:50:39 (ZULU)

The OSHA debacle:

What it does is lump ammunition, powder, and primers together with all high explosives and mandates handling/shipping in the same way.

I looked it up on the Government Regulations website (http://www.regulations.gov). It's OSHA document OSHA-2007-0032-0001, and comments are due by 12 July. It's been posted since April.

This has been on the Federal Register since 13 April but apparently it's slipped under the radar of the NRA-ILA! As of yesterday THEY didn't have a clue this was coming down! What's it mean? Simply that the 'liberal bureaucrats' intend to stop us from receiving shipments of components through our regular sources of UPS/FedEx, etc.! If implemented...it will mean the end of the shooting sports! Due to the lateness of this being discovered, end time for COMMENTS to OSHA is 12 July 2007! If you folks wish to continue to receive shipments of powder/primers from UPS/FedEx, etc. it would be advisable to start contacting your Reps in the US Congress IMMEDIATELY IF NOT SOONER!

OSHA invites comments on all aspects of the proposed rule. .... You may submit comments in response to this document electronically at http://www.regulations.gov. Just lookup OSHA document OSHA-2007-0032-0001 and leave your comments.

The NRA page has a good form letter you can copy & paste if you do not feel like writing - the whole process will take you about 5 minutes. It's at http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3145

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Friday, July 6, 2007, at 06:11:33 (ZULU)

Marc S.,

Darwin strikes AGAIN! The gene pool DEFINITELY needs more chlorine! (this from a former bullrider)

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, July 6, 2007, at 07:32:59 (ZULU)

Guys been busy as can be.

KenM and Gooch if either or both of you might have "itchy feet" in 2-3 months let me know. Usual bad places.

Been working with that 375 Chey Tac on a Lawton built CheyTac Rifle. Damm impressive. I dropped velocity down to 3000 fps for the 350s with BC of 1.01 and it seems just right for extreme range.

Undude/Mike

MikeMiller
Ca, - Friday, July 6, 2007, at 17:59:41 (ZULU)

UnDude: Off-roster email inbound

Joe M
Friday, July 6, 2007, at 19:57:03 (ZULU)

MarcS,

I've never met anyone desperate enough to break into a taco bell, let alone break in at 100mph.

He woulda been fine, had he been wearing a helmet. Too bad there's no onboard video documentary.

There's an opp for a commercial, here. Where's the Chihuahua?

Duman
Friday, July 6, 2007, at 20:32:55 (ZULU)

I think the OSHA site is rigged !!

Only 17 responses are shown.

One ASS actually thinks it's a good thing ??????

I've responded and so have many friends.

What gives.

Government at it's best,or the best our Tax Dollars can buy. LOL

Vote and Vote Often !

Regards,

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, NJ, USA - Saturday, July 7, 2007, at 15:44:42 (ZULU)

Joe and others, seems to me the DR Email does not always work so email me at either. Nothing came through

Tacticalslings or DMMDNLN

Both are followed by @AOL.COM

MikeMiller
Ca, - Saturday, July 7, 2007, at 17:39:43 (ZULU)

Guys,

Om gun carts/golf bag carts: I just found an electric, motorised, remote controlled golf bag cart for $100! It's pretty cool. I think it's gonna make a pretty awesome gun cart. I know it'll be cool at gun shows. I hate trying to juggle 2 or 3 rifles and look at stuff, too.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, July 7, 2007, at 19:50:47 (ZULU)

Travis,

Didn't Rodney Dangerfield have a sooped-up golf bag in "Caddy-Shack"? He just clicked a button, and the club of choice popped out. It even included a stereo and a beer cooler, IIRC.

Duman
Saturday, July 7, 2007, at 23:45:49 (ZULU)

Travis:

Is the cart a one-of or can you share a link?

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, July 8, 2007, at 01:44:29 (ZULU)

So there's an English Bike contingent here too...I am completely unsurprised. I might know a thing or two about them. '69 441 Victor, BTW. Hey, free LTW-for-AmericanSnipers.org raffle ticket to the first person who can tell me the big dif between the '68 and '69 Victors. E-mail me the answer since I'm spotty on checking stuff.

The 1980 Triumph TR7 rotting in my garage surely doesn't count since it's just a car.... but it was "The Shape of Things to Come". Was a great car until I drove it into a hail storm....

Ned Christiansen
3R, MI, USA - Sunday, July 8, 2007, at 06:04:02 (ZULU)

Ned,

e mail inbound via roster

UnPat

Unpat
Wi, USA - Sunday, July 8, 2007, at 07:29:59 (ZULU)

Steven

I noticed that same thing, so i went and faxed a letter also and one to my U.S. Representative.

Gary Kaney
N.W., IL, - Sunday, July 8, 2007, at 12:00:47 (ZULU)

I don't know from Victors... but I drove (but did not own) an Ariel square four 1,000 cc

HA! - top that for odd machines!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, July 8, 2007, at 22:31:17 (ZULU)

Rode a 1934 VL,This would be the 74ci flathead Harley,Documented and letter certified as a former Steve McQueen bike.Complete w/brush paint job,frame was blue,fenders red.Tank shift.

1966 FLH Police also tank shift,fitted w/Reverse gear but sidecar was removed.Shifter gate was for a 4 speed and had to use second on the gate to get 1st in the box...First was actually reverse.Car behind me didnt appreciated my backing up....LOL...No harm done.

1958 Triumph 3TA Twenty One, This was 95% bike.Paint was the only thing not factory...Still had hard rubber(?)type Lucas battery and the pink Lodge spark plugs,Bathtub Skirts...ran as smooth as a Swiss watch too.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Monday, July 9, 2007, at 01:08:33 (ZULU)

Canning time......

It has begun. That time of year when I burn gallons of propane, boil gallons of water, break jars, and burn my friggin hands and face all for the purpose of eating good this winter. One of these days I'm gonna remember that there are grocery stores right around the block.

Combloc rifle ammo.....

I'm taking the plunge on a Mosin M44 and M91 and need ammo. I don't know squat about 54r ammo that's on the market so someone needs to email me or post about what to buy and what to stay away from.

Pistola raffle.......

Bought a tic but didn't receive confirmation or ticket number. Whas up wid dat?

Bolt out!

Bolt
vegetable garden in overdrive, NC, - Monday, July 9, 2007, at 01:53:24 (ZULU)

Hey Bolt,

Busy canning myself... Lot's of blueberries.

Try here for info on mosin ammo. http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo.htm

You can always roll your own to... I use a lee 308win collet die to do mine for my 91/30 sniper...

Have a good un'

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Monday, July 9, 2007, at 13:50:21 (ZULU)

Greetings,

Perhaps I missed something, but isn't ballistic coefficient always less than 1.0? If I am talking out of turn here, someone please inform me. Thanks

Pat II
Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 01:12:16 (ZULU)

Dead line for posting coments on the OSHA 'explosives' proposed rule change extended by 60 days.

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 02:58:12 (ZULU)

Guys I just shot a bitch of a match in So Cal this weekend. The match was fine just 100+ temps and nothing but talcom powder dust with a little four hour nap on Saturday night. No problem there it was good training. My problem was a mechanical one.

After the initial briefing I'm walking up the hill with my pack on to start the first stage and my rifle was slung muzzle up over right shoulder. The fore end flush cup swivel popped out of the cup and the rifle flipped back and down so the muzzle slams the rocks and dust at a 45 degree angle really fucking hard. A 28" palma contour barrel on a 16# rifle can sound like a tuning fork if you do it right. I tied up the swivel to the handstop with 550 cord, ran a few patches through and moved out.

Cold bore shot was no where to be seen. So were all the shots on the next stages. Then I found it, adjusted, got a few and it moved again. The poi shifted several times. Sometimes I had good groups and sometimes not. I didn't just dump shots I dumped entire stages but I kept working at it and trying to find my zero. I still fired each shot like it was the only shot and tried to learn what ever I could from each stage. It seemed to settle in and my last stage at midnight on Saturday was a very tight group in the center under flashing lights.

Next morning I had a headache that wouldn't quit and my CB was about 4" low and left on a 100 yard target. It moved again. I adjusted my knobs to zero out again and moved on. Set up on my down hill angle stage and had two targets. Both were close with one at about 80 yards and the next at about 180. The angle was about 20 degrees on the first one and less on the second. It required five shots on each and my first one punched out the letter X on the 3" Shoot-N-C. I put two more into the same hole and I thought they might score misses so I held over to the edge of the hole for the next two and opened it up a little but still a one hole group. Now I'm about to clean this fucking stage right now jack. I stuff down my next five and they get all crossed up and locked in place in the magazine box. I'm fighting it as best as I can and kept trying to get at least one in the chamber while choking in the dust cloud from all the shooting. Then the buzzer goes off and it's over.

I hate to admit this but I sort of lost it right there. My whole body got as hard as a rock and my teeth clenched real hard then I picked up my rifle and THREW IT BACK DOWN TO THE GROUND WITH GREAT FORCE. Then I picked up my shit and walked back to the rear and DID IT AGAIN BUT HARDER INTO HARDER GROUND from about chest level. I've done that with golf clubs and tennis raquets when I was young but I thought I'd matured somewhat. What a pathetic fucking little child. Got some diaper rash and needed some Desitin on my balls I guess. I wish I hadn't done that it feels really embarassing now.

Whatever. One stage left from 600 yards. I pick up my rifle and notice there is a handful of dirt, rocks and sticks sitting inside of the objective bell right on top of the lens. I tilt it down and it pours out like powder. That goes well with the marks on the tube that look like I used it to hammer tent stakes. Now my bolt feels like it's lubed with Skippy Super Chunk peanut butter and I can feel grinding and crunching in there. The bolt is hard to close on a live round and requires a hard push on the down stroke. It was already like this before my little tantrum.

We get one free spotter shot and I hold dead center with regular 600 yard dope. Hit edge of ten at 3. Dial half moa left and send ten more in short order with more attention given to loading technique. They all felt like perfect shots breaking right on the center dot but it was a 12" to 14" group. Still I got an 86 out of it.

I almost got in my truck and drove away on three seperate occasions but I stuck with it and I'm glad I did. Somehow I managed to get ninth place out of about 30 some odd shooters. Scorekeepers must have been smoking crack. If that hadn't dropped it...well...nevermind.

I learned lessons some good some bad and not all about shooting.

Today it was good to be back to normal life as a construction superintendent on a screwed up project in the city. I was falling asleep by lunch time and couldn't process the simplest of questions or tasks so I took off.

That's my longest post ever!

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 04:37:45 (ZULU)

Wayyyyy back in the day (1999-2001?) there used to be a monthly match in Sacramento jokingly called the Mudville Malitia. It was great fun and id like to get back at it. The dust on my rifles is not very pretty.

I did some searching on line for it but could find no current mention of it. Does anyone have the inside scoop? Is it still going on? Did it fade away into oblivion?

Thanks

Jeff

Jeff H
San Jose, Ca, USA - Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 05:30:35 (ZULU)

Pat II,

Yep, BC can be greater than 1. I think it may have something to do with global warming, but I'm not sure exactly what. Al Gore could probably tell you. After all, he invented global warming shortly after he invented the Internet. Smart guy, huh? Odd, He really doesn't look that smart though. There are rumors, just rumors, mind you, that he invented ballistic coefficients, but that hasn't been substantiated yet.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 05:41:58 (ZULU)

Canning country,

OK Calvin, I`ll bite. what do you do with the canned blueberries? I seen a lot of stuff canned, peaches, cherries, deer meat, pickles, beets, etc. but I`ve never heard of blueberries. We talkin` just on the morning toastie flakes or we talkin` pies and cobler. What`s the deal? You makin` jam down there below the Mason-Dixon or what? Huh? HUH?!!

( I think I made myself hungry just there)

Steve Racer
somewhere in Dillsburg, PA, - Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 06:45:21 (ZULU)

MarcS...

Were those "flush mount swivels", the ones with a steel cup in the stock, and the sling part has a pushbutton stud with a few ball bearings that lock into the steel cup?

Don't ask how I know ;)

I survived the episode a bit embarrassed. They were "Da rage" some years back (about when Jonah moved all of his furnishings and flat screen TV into "Whale Central").

I had them installed on a 40XB Match rifle. The front one was built into a real expensive Freeland hand stop.

At a match, I picked up the rifle by leaning over and grabbing the sling.

Half way up, the front one let loose, and the barrel hit the ground on the front "Olympic" sight, and "spronked" it. The mounting screws for the base broke off and left me with a tomato stick!

The rear cup is still in the stock, but the front hand stop w/swivel went in the trash a looooooooooooooooooooooong time ago.

Pat-II

>" Greetings, Perhaps I missed something, but isn't ballistic coefficient always less than 1.0? If I am talking out of turn here, someone please inform me. Thanks"<

The BC of the USA 16" navel shells is ~14.00 (That's FOURTEEN!!!).

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 08:06:56 (ZULU)

Marc S.,

Thank GOD some idiot didn't interrupt your little "anger management" session. He probly woulda gotten a titanium jawbone, thanks to your stock! I think we've all been there, more or less.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 11:13:36 (ZULU)

Marc....HA! BTDT! I used to ride and race mountain bikes, locally, here in Tejas. Wanna know how many times I've made Olympic-grade hammer tosses into the landscape with a $2000 GT full-suspension, all XTR, aluminum and unobtanium racing bike? So would I, 'cuz I've lost count. When I went through the Advanced Phase I class in Badlands, the eyepiece on my Leupold was loose, but not so's I could notice it at first, since I always leave it on 10X. After getting som really nice 00-Buck groups at 100 yds, I was about to pop a gasket. This continued all day, until for some reason I had to move the power setting. Oops. I duct taped the shit out of it and drove on. Love that stuff. Anyhoo....we all been there, don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 13:18:45 (ZULU)

( blue berry country)

Hey Steve,

The uses for blueberries are almost unlimited ! Jam,in pancakes,on waffles,syrup,raw,and the all time fave....daiquiris ! I got them just down the road from ya at the orchard ( wiesers ?) across from the auto auction.. Hint, if your ever making jam make sure you mash the berries up good.. If ya don't your kitchen will look like a claymore at a smurf picnic. Who woulda thought them things could be so explosive ?

Hey ( and you too Ken Hunter) when are ya gonna head down and hunt some whistle pigs ? The farmer is on my ass about not killing enough of them ! Got one at 500 yds awhile back ! Hunting's good down here !

Calvin

PS a great recipe for blue berry jam is with a little lime

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 14:11:23 (ZULU)

Click my name. This ass might oughta change the way he votes.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 15:44:28 (ZULU)

Lito - "(about when Jonah moved all of his furnishings and flat screen TV into "Whale Central")" I can't stop laughing !!! Good one!

JC - Global Warming - concerts around the world, singing about our 'carbon footprint' by yahoos that charter private jets, picked up at airport by parade of a dozen limos, live in 20,000+ square foot houses, consume more energy in a week than i do in a year, telling me I need to conserve energy? Huh. I wonder how much $$ Gwhore is extracting from this gig.

Duman
Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 15:58:59 (ZULU)

PatII,

As lito said, you can get much higher BC's than 1...BC is calculated by figuring the form factor(the shape), mass, and diameter of one particular projectile, and then comparing to a 'standard' projectile of not too dissimilar shape which has a Ballistic Coefficient of 1. The standards, as set out by the Ingalls tables, assume a diameter of one inch and a weight of one pound, in the particular shape not too dissimilar from the test projectile, or the bullets we use. We generally in the shooting industry, use the BC as a comparison against a relatively blunt nosed, flat based standard, even though the bullets we use today are quite different, being sharper nosed and often boat tailed base..

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 19:25:40 (ZULU)

Pat-II...

I'll add to what JR said.

The one pound, 1.00" dia Ingle's standard is just one of 8 standards, and they are refered to as "G-1, through G-8".

The Ingle's was a cylinder with a 1.00" dia, and a conical nose of XX diameters long.

This way, any lab in the world, could make a "standard" bullet on a lathe.

But G-2 through G-8 are actually based on real artillery shells from WW-1 and WW-2. Most of these were in the 2.5" to 4" bore size, and weighed a few pounds. There are Radius/flat based - Tangent/flat based, secant/flat based - radius/boat tailed... etc. A good bunch to chose from to match up what you have.

Only problem is that our bullets are real tiny compared to the standard, so the "Reynold's number", is smaller so we have to have "our" software constantly correct for "Reynold's number" errors.

But all things considered, our software does a really good job.

The only bullet shape that we can't find some reference for, it the VLD, and our software just works harder to make it fit.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 19:53:07 (ZULU)

'Lito,

Yeah what you said, hah, my thinker is about half turned off presently..

Cheers

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Tuesday, July 10, 2007, at 20:05:08 (ZULU)

II. ENACTMENT OF THE FIREARMS OWNERS' PROTECTION ACT

Good reading on stuff I didn't know. Click

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 00:36:14 (ZULU)

Greetings,

I stand corrected. Good stuff. Especially for the next time I my working up loads for my 16" cannon.

It's been said before. Hard to find a more knowledgable group than on the roster.

Pat II
Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 03:14:02 (ZULU)

Marc S,

I wouldn't sweat the small stuff. We have all had meltdown days on the range. I've watched guys hold there M-24s like a baseball bat and launch them during a bad momemt. Those things are entertaining to watch, except when it's you. Happens to everybody.

Pat II
Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 03:21:10 (ZULU)

You're supposed to get a confirmation on your raffle ticket purchase for AmericanSnipers.org, either via Email or snail mail. Give it a week or so if you would.

Ned Christiansen
3R, MI, USA - Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 06:12:48 (ZULU)

MarcS, Please from now on don't do that. Beating up a $4,000 rifle hurts me to hear about. Please keep a Ruger 77 or Savage in your truck. When the moment for action takes place run and get the "spare" to slam stuff with. Sure you loose a little of the "moment" be you will feel better the next day when you realize you didn't trash your good gun. I tore up enough stuff to fill a dumpster so I know angry. But I feel like you did later. So I set my expensive stuff down and tear up crap that really needs tore up any how.

DirtySteve...........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 06:31:43 (ZULU)

Jeff H.- I shoot that match in Sac every month. It's grown to an average of about 40 shooters and you wouldn't recognize the courses of fire anymore. It's really a fun match.

Litosan- Yes it was the flush cup type swivel. I hate those fucking things with a passion now. That's the second one I've had fail at a really bad time. The last one was slung muzzle up and the butt swivel popped out and the muzzle speared down into the soft mud which packed about 4" worth into the bore. This was happened after the most of the guys were already lined up on the two hundred yard line and they waited on me while I cleaned it out. I've also had them pop out in matches while slung up and shooting. Some guys love them and convert all of their rifles but I'll never, ever trust them again. My McM A5 stock will go up for sale as soon as I order a new one with regular swivel studs. Also, these multiple failures have happened to me on two different rifles, three different sizes and manufacturers of the actual swivel, and two different attachment cups. One cup was stock on the A5 and this time it was on a Freeland type handstop which fits into a rail. All of this has happened to me only in the last 6 months. The design sucks and is a bad idea. Period.

Travis- I know you were just joking but there's no way I'd have gotten shitty with anyone else for any reason even though I was mad. I was just mad at myself.

Charles- I'd pay money to see you flip a bike through the air LOL. Classic.

I just found out a couple hours ago that I missed first place by only 80 points after all of that. I dumped several stages entirely for at least 40 shots out into space. The coulda, woulda, shoulda is killing me now. I'm sure I could've tried a little harder or been a little smarter somewhere.

Why am I suddenly craving blueberry pancakes!?

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 06:39:40 (ZULU)

Calvin,

It`s a wonder I haven`t bumped into you at Weiser`s dude. We`re in there a lot when fruit season is in. I grew up in York Springs. Great little town but you have to speak Spanish to live there now. Ain`t the same place no mo.

They gots all kinds of yummy stuff there, eh? Some of the best local peaches around. Peter`s Orchard up Rt.94 North, on the other side of York Springs about 3 miles, has good stuff too. And you get a free roller coaster ride on the way. Scenery included.

That stuff makes my tum tum tummy growl!

Cobbbbb lerrrrr!........COBBBBB! LERRRRRR!!!!!

Steve Racer
somewhere in Dillsburg, PA, - Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 07:05:25 (ZULU)

Pat-II...

>"Especially for the next time I my working up loads for my 16" cannon."<

A good starting point is four bags, and work up one bag at a time, but don't exceed 7 bags, except with the HE shells, and NEVER exceed 6 bags with the AP's

;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 14:14:12 (ZULU)

Morning Hawgs!!

Just catching up on the roster and see everyone is doing fine.

PatII and I have been getting out on a regular basis to do some shooting. He still gives me a hard time about my "Caliber of the month" guns but I think I have him coming my way now. He's starting to see the advantage of those high BCs in our wind out here. I can see a 260 in his future. Now if I can just get him to "Dial" instead of holding Mils........

MarcS,

I had the samething happen in Wyoming to me at the D&L shoot one year with my old H&S stock. I was crawling up the side of a steep hill when my front sling swivel let go. Fortunatly for me I reached back and cought the rifle by the barrel as it went flying by. How I did it I will never know, just luck.

JR, 'lito,

You two never cease to amaze me with your knowlege!! If I ever need to know anything I always know where to come.(HA) Hope all is well with you guys!!!!

Pat
Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 15:21:40 (ZULU)

Hygenically-challenged Steve.....what you got against Salvages? Ruu...Ru...one of those other rifles I can see, but a Salvage? OK, weekend after next, bring YOUR pipefitter's union special, the one in .223 that shoots 1-3/4" at 500, and we'll take turns bending it around the uprights. Sounds like fun, eh?

Marc....bike tossing. OK, make it $20 a toss, and you're on. I'll start tossing one of my local midgets to get in shape. I work with one, we call him Fetus....he looks like he's about 16 weeks old. Took us two years to get the thumb outta his mouth. He moonlights as the stunt-midget on Carlos Mencia's show.....

I'm thinking of investing in a scattergun. I'm not gonna hunt with it, it's going to be defensive all the way. Has to be simple (like me)reliable and easy to maintain. I'm leaning toward Mossberg. I like pumps, but are semi's reliable? I'm open for any comment, as I know very little about them. Used one a time or two, and I have a passing familiarity with them since I'm allegedly a cop, but if anyone has the definitive tool for me, gimme some info. Thanx.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 16:42:29 (ZULU)

Jeff/Marc- is this the Sac match you guys are talking about?

http://sacvalley.org/SacVal/Tactical_Long_Range.html

Click name.

LTChip
Old Hangtown, CA, - Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 17:08:54 (ZULU)

That seems to be the one.

The group has a website on yahoo groups....

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/mudvillem/

I'm going to try to get out there sometime. The course of fire have changed a lot since the last time I checked into it. Looks like fun.

LTChip
Old Hangtown, CA, - Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 17:14:13 (ZULU)

Chuck, I have nothing against Salvages. I think highly of them.. But if I were mad at my GA rifle going tits up at an in-oppertune time, I would set it down and throw the less expensive rifle that I can fix. And that aint right you picking on Fetus(and yes we openly call him that for the last 12 years or so). Can I get in on the bike toss. I started werking out and I can practice by throwing the other Circus Midget. (Jaimes sp?).

Lito, Aint anything fired from a 16" gun Armor Piercing? They are all probably fun to shoot too.

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 17:25:15 (ZULU)

Chuck H.,

Remington 870 pump with Rifle sights. That will be all you will need. Have ran alot of Mossburgs through up here...lots of problems with them. Will let you run my 870 this weekend along with a Mossburg....You will see the difference. See ya Thursday Chuck!

Bobby Whittington
Grandfield, OK, USA - Wednesday, July 11, 2007, at 18:35:04 (ZULU)

Marc and others two problems exist with Flush Cup Swivels

1. The cups themselves need to be correctly installed. Not too deep or too much goo on top or they wont actually lock. This was a problem on many McMillan stocks because they set them too deep and all but the CS litle itty ones would pop out.

2. The swivels are only manufactured by a couple of places. Just one in US now. The off shore crap is crap. Its 99 percent of market. The US Manufacture just started production a couple of months ago and what I recently got was the best I have seen ever for a flush cup.

Now nothing is as bomb proof as the swivels MIM'd with gate closed but I see guys forget to close gate and the pin bends or breaks.

Mike/Undude

MikeMiller
Ca, - Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 00:01:21 (ZULU)

Lady Bird Johnson died today. I suppose that I should have thought about the era, the war, or her husband's micro-management style...hell, there are many, many important things I should have thought about.

But my one and only thought was: "Now we can dump that Bell Textron POS, the OH58..."

Joe M
Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 00:25:59 (ZULU)

Hey all,

Haven't been here in a LONG time. Good to see the same crowd and some new faces as well.

Anyhoo, I have a service rifle question. I got into a "conversation" with a guy regarding target crowns. He maintains that an AR with a target crown is useless when an A2 is then mounted. I was under the impression that the AMU had target crowns on their barrels regardless. Thoughts?

Thanks

Rich S
MD, - Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 01:11:26 (ZULU)

'Lito-you're indeed a fund of information, load data for the 16" naval rifles yet. Come to think of it, I've got the Coast Artillery manual for the 8-16 inch rifles and mortars somewhere, wonder if load data is in there?

BYW, picked up those M40 type rings & mount you posted. The mount appears to be marked 700/40. Both rings & mount are painted, the mount so recently there aren't even marks from the rings being installed. The rings suck, peened the dovetail to tighten it up, the "dirt" was the rust I expected. Overall, worth the money. The rings are medium. Anyone know if those were issue?

WR Moore
Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 01:41:29 (ZULU)

Rich S: An A2's bullet departs an opening at the end of the barrel just like a bullet departs from a GAP custom, eh? A concentric launching point can NEVER hurt, regardless.

Been eyeballing a lower sitting in my parts bin...maybe it needs to be a DCM-legal stick with a kreiger pipe? Heheh...the wife would kill me if I grow another AR...

Joe M
Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 01:44:18 (ZULU)

OK guys, I need a little help.

I have several peach trees on the homestead which are just bursting with almost ripe fruit. This year, for the first time ever, a family of squirrels have moved into the area and they appear to be harvesting the peaches at a rate of ~6 per day. I've only got 2 acres so even a rimfire is not a safe proposition.

I own a 17 cal Diana / RWS pellet gun which produces velocities over 1000 FPS. This model is somewhat obscure, but is actually a 'common' RWS model 34 with aesthetic changes. I'd like to mount an airgun scope to the rifle to improve on the practical accuracy. "Holding hard" on this damn "sproinger" redefines difficult and doing it while contorting to make the stock iron sight setup work requires absurd Olympic levels of skill....which I lack.

My question....the supplied rail on the rifle is very shallow and only .433 inch wide...I'm wondering if the Burris z rings would be the best choice or if they would even grab on such a narrow, shallow rail. I don't seem to be able to get any guidance from the airgun websites ...just hoping one of you guys is a closet airgunner...maybe one of the UK group? These squirrels must go, even if I have to ghillie up to make it happen.

medicjim
Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 04:41:34 (ZULU)

Medicjim,

Use Aguila super Colibri's in your .22. The box says pistol only, but they shoot just fine out of my Henry .22. Keep your range down to 20-25 yds., and you'll be havin' Squirrel and dumplins w/peaches for dessert!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 08:22:13 (ZULU)

Medic Jim...

Those slots (.433 inch wide) are the "fur-in-er" version of out 3/8ths tip-off mounts we use on .22s.

I had them on my RWS some years ago.

Go here.

http://www.burrisoptics.com/sigrings.html

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 12:16:49 (ZULU)

Duman...

Strike anywhere matches?

What's your source. The ARE against the law (federal) in all states, EVERYWHERE... for retail sales. They cannot be sold at the supermarket.

It is because back in the 70's the government (that we love and trust so much) found out that un-edu-ma-cated ghetto people in the inner cities were letting their kids play with strike anywhere matches, with obvious results. (Isn't that called Darwinism??)

But there is an exception - if the matches are used for special purposes, like camping, ranching, etc - this got around the charge that the law was racist - if you are an inner city ghetto idiot, and you go camping, you are free to burn your stupid ass up ;)

Our local camping store used to carry them, and then stopped because it wasn't worth the extra fire insurance.

Where do you get them.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 12:26:17 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve...

>"Lito, Ain't anything fired from a 16" gun Armor Piercing?"<

HA! Double HA!!

Actually, there were several different shells for the 16".

The AP are used against other battle ships that have 50" of hardened steel plate - at 20+ miles, the 16" shell has lost much of it "Whomp", and the regular HE can deform on the surface of the armor like a .22 hitting a plate - then the powder sutffie gets tossed all over the place.

Notes of gunnery officers in WW-I and WW-II relate large shells bouncing off, or sometimes breaking apart against enemy's ships armor plate. That was because the shells were thin walled steel, filled with HE (TNT).

The 16" AP, was a really heavy steel shell, with a hardened point, with a smallish HE charge in the back of the shell, so the nose would not deform on impact, and the shell would stay together when hitting a hardened target - they were also used against the 20 foot thick concrete bunkers of shore batteries... these 16" AP's would zip right through... a large explosive charge was not needed, because the target was small - 300 pounds of TNT was enough to wreck a gun battery, or cause havoc in a ships engine room or powder magazine.

The normal HE shells had a thin steel body and was mostly TNT, and these were used against towns, battle fields, etc - where it was used as a one ton bomb, without the airplane.

There will be a test on Monday ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 12:53:16 (ZULU)

Lito,

Strike Anywhere matches - My dad found some in Michigan. In the grocery store. Next time I'm there, I'll pick some up.

IIRC, the 'tin can sailors' were pounded with APs from the Yamato, which let the shells go through without causing explosive damage. It bought the sailors a little more time to fight back.

Duman
Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 14:59:56 (ZULU)

Catshooter and Travis..

Thank You.

medicjim
Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 16:11:56 (ZULU)

Sweet corn harvest started this A.M. Picked over 2,000 ears.

Will trade some for blueberries, Calvin. ;))

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 16:15:00 (ZULU)

Lito,

I think I just bought some last weekend at our local coborns,I will have to check tonight.

Im still waiting for my rifle,I think I have heard just about every excuse in the book.I did get a solid will be done on friday,and he said hes going to drop it off at my work.Im not holding my breath though.

Jon Kujawa
Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 17:31:29 (ZULU)

Lito, try REI or click my name. I have used them with great success in the wind.

Darren

Semper fi

85-90

Darren
East Bay, Ca, USA - Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 18:26:57 (ZULU)

Darren,

Are those an improvement over the old waterproof matches they used to sell? The box always fell apart before you could try the matches, and you couldn't strike them anywhere but on the box! Of course, once you tried to strike them, and the box actually survived, the match head would shatter.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 19:03:52 (ZULU)

Travis,

You must have learned to strike matches the same place I did.

Duman
Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 19:40:53 (ZULU)

Ammo Country

Has anyone used or know anything about 223 ammo from Prvi Partizan (made in Serbia)? I'm looking for some to put back for just in case I need a bunch sometime. I've seen this advertised on AimSurplus.com and wondered about it. Also, does anyone have any good sources for ammo (223, 308, 45acp) other than Black Hills, Ammoman.com, Cheaper than Dirt, Sportman's Guide that you would be willing to share?

Thanks in advance,

Chris

Chris McHam
Northwest Louisiana, USA - Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 21:26:45 (ZULU)

MedicJim: Google "squirrel pole" or look it up in ol' survival pubs--then go forth and build a few. These things work like crazy, and yes, they DID make make 'em against the law in most places. But hey, will there be any tears shed over a few (dozen) dead squirrels?

Plinking one by one is fun, but the 6 peaches per day thing oughta make ya in a bigger hurry. Do the industrial squirrel reduction!

Chris McHam: Ammo prices are off the charts! I hope someone has a secret source of supply they'll share in response to your querry.

Dude...it is hard to ignore "McHam." But I imagine you've heard them all before...

Joe M
Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 21:40:47 (ZULU)

Squirrel pole w/drawing:

http://www.aircav.com/survival/asch08/asch08p06.html

Hey Joe, where did you hear about these?

SERE training or equiv?

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 22:02:14 (ZULU)

Click for the ultimate mall ninja toy.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 22:10:54 (ZULU)

medicjim;

These folks have scope mounts and conversions for most any rimfire/air rifle.

http://www.bkltech.com

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Thursday, July 12, 2007, at 23:39:04 (ZULU)

Rod: I heard of these during phase 1 of the QC and at the recondo course; BUT:

I first heard of squirrel poles in Boy Scouts!

Joe M
Friday, July 13, 2007, at 01:15:23 (ZULU)

Technical data US 16 inch rifle:

Barrel length: 800 inches

Rifling: 144 lands & grooves, gain twist, 1 turn in 50 calibers at the chamber increasing to 1 turn in 25 calibers 2 calibers from the muzzle.

Pressure limit: 40,000 psi, working pressure 38,000 psi.

Weight of shell: 2400 lbs.

Muzzle velocity (approximate) 2700 fps.

Muzzle energy: 121430 foot-tons.

Charge: 850 lbs powder, type of powder not specified, expect to be large grain cannon powder.

WR Moore
Friday, July 13, 2007, at 03:29:25 (ZULU)

Joe M.

Is that how they were planning on getting the squirrels out of boy scouts?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, July 13, 2007, at 04:41:23 (ZULU)

Mark 7 16-inch/50-caliber gun

The Mark 7 16-inch/50-caliber gun was the primary armament of the IOWA-class battleships.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-7.htm

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/5397/16inch.htm

Range (Gun Mount Elevation = 45 degrees)

Armor Piercing 36,900 yards (21 miles)

Bombardment 40,180 yards (22.8 miles)

During Operation DESERT STORM battleships USS WISCONSIN and USS MISSOURI fired more than 1.000 rounds of 16" ammunition in support of ground operations. USS MISSOURI alone fired more than one million pounds of ordnance. Using Remotely Piloted Vehicles and Marine spotters ashore, targets included artillery, mortar and missile positions, ammunition storage facilities and a Silkworm missile site. USS WISCONSIN's RPVs provided on-site reconnaissance support from 11 nautical miles out for advancing Marines.

My comment - talk about unlucky, think about the mortar crew being targetted with 16" naval gunfire!

http://www.geocities.com/fort_tilden/16ingun.html

http://www.battleship.org/html/Articles/IowaClass/Main.htm

In 1969, Captain Edward Snyder of the New Jersey was quoted as saying that the AP shell is capable of penetrating up to 32 feet of reinforced concrete. The HC round carries a high-explosive charge of 154 pounds. The maximum rang eis 41,622 yards when fired with the normal propelling charge of 660 pounds, with a muzzle velocity of 2,690 feet per second.

Typical armor penetration of the 2,700 pound Mk 7 AP projectile is 14.5 inches of horizontal armor at a range of 42,300 yards (angle of fall is 53.25 degrees and a striking velocity of 1,686 feet per second.) At "point blank" range, with a striking velocity of 2,500 feet per second, the vertical armor penetration is 32.62 inches.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.htm

The High Capacity (HC) shell can create a crater 50 feet wide and 20 feet deep (15 x 6 m). During her deployment off Vietnam, USS New Jersey (BB-62) occasionally fired a single HC round into the jungle and so created a helicopter landing zone 200 yards (180 m) in diameter and defoliated trees for 300 yards (270 m) beyond that.

Daisycutter? We don't need no stinking Daisycutter :-)

Added during 1950s Deployments

Nuclear Mark 23 - 1,900 lbs. (862 kg)

Nuclear Mark 23 - W23 warhead, about 15-20 kilotons

HE-ER Mark 148 (Planned)

13 in (33 cm) extended-range (ER), sub-caliber projectile with sabot. ET-fuzed with a payload of submunitions. Experiments with this projectile were conducted during the 1980s, but development was cancelled in FY91 when the battleships were decommissioned. Projectile weight without the sabot was about 1,100 lbs. (500 kg) and range was to be in excess of 70,000 yards (64,000 m) at a muzzle velocity of 3,600 fps (1,097 mps).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, July 13, 2007, at 05:13:01 (ZULU)

Ammo? What's that? Our PD doesn't have any. Well we have enough for our current cadet class to use and 50, yes 50, rounds for each officer to shoot during Inservice Training.

I can not believe you all can not find Strike Anywhere matches. They are in about every store in Texas. But they aint like the ones Darren posted about.

Dirty Steve.........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Friday, July 13, 2007, at 06:21:21 (ZULU)

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.htm

More useful data regarding the 16" L/50 Mk 7 All the other USN guns are listed off that page also, with some interesting details. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Friday, July 13, 2007, at 07:57:31 (ZULU)

Even backassward Wisconsin has Blue Diamond farmer matches.

Dirty Steve...50 rds/man??WTF???Figured a city as big as yours the budget would be big enough to supply you guys properly.I know with the war goin on and all alot of LEO's who double as Reserves and are out on Active leave,fillin the uniforms is tough...but 50 rds?You cant protect a donut shop properly with 50 rds.....Much less yourselves.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi , USA - Friday, July 13, 2007, at 08:08:03 (ZULU)

Click for cool aerial photo of battleship firing the big guns.

My dad was on the Mighty Mo during WWII. He said that the muzzle blast was unpleasant.

CDC'
Friday, July 13, 2007, at 15:25:57 (ZULU)

Travis, I don't recall the old waterproof matches but these are good to go. The matches are strong, and the box comes with two striking pad which I use. The matches has yet to brake on me and the strike pad has yet to fail. This is how I have my setup. First, I have a bag of cotton balls that are dipped in vaseline - I have 6 balls in the bag. The matches are in a water proof hard case container with the strike pad set aside and protected. When I have used it, and not to frequently, on the first strike it lite up and its burn time was about 3 to 4 seconds, enough time for me to light up the cotton ball and start up the fire.

I hope this helps.

Darren

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Friday, July 13, 2007, at 15:46:36 (ZULU)

CDC',

"....the muzzle blast was unpleasant."

Your dad had the gift of understatement. That shock wave could probably crush a man's skull.

Duman
Friday, July 13, 2007, at 17:23:01 (ZULU)

UnPat, Pretty damn funny aint it. If for the fact it was not the sad truth. The previous Commander of the academy. Spent too much money on other stuff and put off the annual order of ammo. When time to place the order came Suprise the cost was WAY higher than the previous year. Even with the tractor trailer load discount. The New Chief was unaware of the problem but when he found out someone was given a new job. Haha. So, now the order was placed but there will be a 4-5 month wait in delivery time. Oh it gives you quite a chubby to see a truck with that much ammo. 40 cal 223 Remington and 308 Winchester.

When that was put out in roll call yesterday by the Association rep every one said me and Chuck Hunt would be ok. I said, "Being a Red Neck who lives in the woods with too many guns pays off." They said how much ammo do you have? I said it ain how much I have it's how much can I load! The answer is, a bunch. Ha

The said truth is our Department was so badly mismanaged that our new Chief had to set priorities. He has done a great job so far.

Oh POLICE INTELL INFO.. The Aryan Nation is attempting to collect names of police officers from around the country and search data bases to locate them. They will also attempt to folllow them home. They are planning on doing property crimes against them and attempting to locate guns. (But the could plan worse)......... Anyone following me I don't recognize maybe screwed. Once I turn on to the long dirt road they will be mine. I will turn a corner shut off my lights and take care of bidness. I have selected two prime locations for this. You guys living in town becarefull and take a couple screwy turns just to see if some one is following you.

Wow, I posted something worth a damn for a change.

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
Texas, USA - Friday, July 13, 2007, at 17:34:03 (ZULU)

Guys check this out,video of a guy and his 45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-T0OQZIbhg

Jon Kujawa
Friday, July 13, 2007, at 17:36:32 (ZULU)

B to B- in shooting. NBD.

Solid F in weapons manipulation.

CDC'
Friday, July 13, 2007, at 19:26:09 (ZULU)

From Michael Bane's blog (13-Jul-2007):

http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/

Jim Cirillo, the legendary member of the New York City Police Department "Stake Out Squad" in the 1970s, was killed yesterday in a car-truck collision in New York...Jim was 76.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1865447/posts

http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Cirillo_Jim_8220901.aspx

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, July 13, 2007, at 21:25:53 (ZULU)

And the winner of the douchebag competition, group division is..... click.

This wouldn't be so funny if it weren't for the title of the video. I get the feeling they wouldn't be any faster with shotguns in a horsetrailer.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, July 13, 2007, at 21:52:41 (ZULU)

CDC',

"Solid F in weapons manipulation."

I wonder who taught him to pull the gun to his chest and keep the weapon pointed downrange. Muzzle control is lacking.

Duman
Friday, July 13, 2007, at 22:40:14 (ZULU)

re: shooting carts

Rugged Gear is running an unadvertised introductory special

on their "new color" shooting carts (navy and burgandy).

Current solitary color available is green.

I spoke to Ronelle in sales.

Just the ticket for 1-2 long guns plus gear in a known distance range environment or IPSC 3-gun match.

$189 with shipment in August for the 15100 package including protective cover and accessories bag. Transport charges extra.

15100NAV is the navy blue version.

http://ruggedgear.com/shooting_cart.php

http://ruggedgear.com/documents/Shooting_Cart_flyer.pdf

I've ordered one for myself, even with the high shipping cost to Canada.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, July 13, 2007, at 22:42:10 (ZULU)

Duman: Just one mistake after another. This guy needs to take the training.

Click for an old-time trick-shot artist.

CDC'
Saturday, July 14, 2007, at 03:02:46 (ZULU)

Ok, not trying to be a smart ass here, help a dumb guy out and critique this dude for me. Other than being unfocused on the muzzle and a little tenative and too casual in general, what about his techinique needs work. I can`t really tell by the quality of the video what his hits look like, but what should we be seeing here? Thanks, SR.

Steve Racer
somewhere in Dillsburg , PA, - Saturday, July 14, 2007, at 06:53:22 (ZULU)

BTW, that was what is known as "softball country" for those of you in the know, requested by those of us not so in the know. Remember, you heard it here 2nd. thanks.

Steve Racer
somewhere in Dillsburg , PA, USA - Saturday, July 14, 2007, at 06:57:30 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve,

Glad to hear Big Boss has head on straight...It makes a big differance too and I would love to see a 53 footer in my drive full of 308 and .45...Serious party at my place when that day comes..LOL....,, 4-5 month fill time????Knew the war was hittin ammo prices but thought the reserve pile was bigger:(...Want to wish ya luck on A.N. problem too...and thats all I am gonna say on that,Dont want to jinx ya.

308 Factory Ammo: Rem 150grSp Core lok,Blaine's Farm and Fleet $13.99/Box vs Gander @ $19.99 for same thing.....I left Blaine's w/2 boxes on the shelf....LOL.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Saturday, July 14, 2007, at 07:15:16 (ZULU)

Youz guys need to get with the program on these instructional videos.......

Professional training video......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTnrxN5lnB8&mode=related&search=

My 'for purely wasting ammo' video........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHtdHPCCWfs

I hate work safe videos.........

The summer garden wilt is in full swing so me and girlfriend are canning shit fast as we can pick it. Must get back to shooting soon.

Bolt headed for the bean patch and out!

Bolt
Pickin and cannin.......no time for shootin in......, NC, - Saturday, July 14, 2007, at 11:21:10 (ZULU)

In stress situations you revert to the habits you "burn in" in practice. Last year my hunting buddy's dog flushed the most spectacular flight of pheasants I've ever seen - or heard of - while I struggled to release the safety of my 870. But I wasn't carrying a 870. I was carrying a Weatherby Orion O/U.

Good thing the pheasants weren't shooting back.

I swapped off the W'by and bought a $300 870 from Wally World.

Bill Jordon used to tell a story of a Border Patrol agent who finished a fight with a shirt pocket full of brass that he had saved for reloading.

Gotta love that.

So the guy in the youtube video is "burning in" the manipulation drill demonstrated. I assume that this guy is training to fight. There are standard manipulation drills for fighting. This guy isn't using them.

CDC'
Saturday, July 14, 2007, at 11:23:10 (ZULU)

WAKE 'EM UP!!

http://users.rcn.com/sitzkrieg/war/gatlinggun.wmv

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, July 14, 2007, at 13:26:28 (ZULU)

'lito, Ken, Lindy....this will mean something to you guys....

KE5OVT/temporary AG.......as of about an hour ago!!

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Saturday, July 14, 2007, at 18:08:27 (ZULU)

Congrats, Amigo!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, July 14, 2007, at 19:41:35 (ZULU)

Sarge,

Congrats. It means some thing to me too. It means a Bud will get to buy more toys. And that makes me happy. Ha

Dirty Steve

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Saturday, July 14, 2007, at 21:53:00 (ZULU)

My wife rented "Shooter". I got six minutes in to it. It sucks.

CDC'
Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 03:55:02 (ZULU)

I liked "Shooter", but the story *was* very different from "Point of Impact".

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 03:58:57 (ZULU)

Here's the douchebag link I accidentally omitted earlier.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 05:02:01 (ZULU)

Imagine that you are some dumb kid living in some s***hole in the Middle East who has been pumped full of glue-sniffer cult religion and insane propaganda from the time you were born. Further imagine that you see "The Great Satan" confessing to it's crimes in an American made movie. In "Shooter" the viewer is meant to cheer the horrible and well deserved deaths of American soldiers.

Technically, it is completely stupid from start to finish.

"Shooter" sucks. Hollywood is a cancer.

CDC'
Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 05:35:16 (ZULU)

Thanks 'lito, Steve didn't know you were a well you know what I mean.. cause if I use either of the names we're called ....oh the poopie will never end! :-)

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 13:21:45 (ZULU)

Sarge,

Congrats! I know that took a bunch of work. A friend I used to fly with in the Navy is one of THOSE!

Time to go teach a CCW class.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The muggy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 13:42:29 (ZULU)

Congratulations, Sarge. I chased dits for the old Army Security Agency for five years in interesting places back in the seventies but I never persued it as a hobby. Enjoy.

Bill Adcox
Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 15:15:07 (ZULU)

Sarge: Congrats! Very cool. It's a great skill to have.

Hank
Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 17:17:05 (ZULU)

Strike anywhere matches:

Surplus stores seem to carry them.

Hank
Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 17:22:30 (ZULU)

Thanks all! I've been chasing this particular ticket for over 30 years! It was the CW that always bit me in the behind! BUT when I found out, about 2 months ago, that the FCC had done away with the requirement for CW in ALL CLASSES and narrowed the classes down to 3, Tech, General and Extra, I got into it again and well now have the General. Extra...we'll see!

Thanks again!

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 20:26:00 (ZULU)

Sarge: Congrats!! - hey - just becuz the FCC dropped the code requirement - doesn't mean that Sarge won't learn CW--- You gotta get that one too... You'll make the old Army Signal Corps guys proud :)

All - go checkout the pistol raffle site...

click on my name or go to: http://www.pistolraffle.com

Got all the kinks worked out... Now you can pay by check or pay by paypal.. I gotta a sh*t load of ticket numbers to generate this weekend too :)

Take care all

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 20:54:07 (ZULU)

Gentlemen,

I am proud to report that the rodent force operating in my AO has been rendered "combat ineffective". All units destroyed through precision, direct fire.

Objective "peach tree" is secure.

medicjim
Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 23:44:26 (ZULU)

Shooter..... I like it for what it appears to be to me atleast. A guy movie not a chick flick. Guns, bombs and broads. I like it......

Oh, I went pistol shooting. Shot my race gun. During the mover I shot so fast on the 10 and 15 yard stage one of the other good shooters(he's real good) said." If you shoot faster I bet you can throw an eight." I dorpped 23 points on the Practical Event. I shot the 50 yrd line standing no prone for me yet. Actually I forgot my shooting mat.

Dirty Steve.........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Monday, July 16, 2007, at 00:09:56 (ZULU)

I would STILL kinda like to see a Riffle Raffle fer Sniper Country...

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Monday, July 16, 2007, at 03:21:55 (ZULU)

"I would STILL kinda like to see a Riffle Raffle fer Sniper Country..."

Well - I have a pre-ban Steyr FAL that's here on consignment... Do you all think that'd generate at least 200 tix..??? some folks ain't semi auto fans... However - 200 tix would easily pay the owner for that riffle, and the rest could go to SniperCountry staff (not me).

Whadaya think?....

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Monday, July 16, 2007, at 04:25:50 (ZULU)

Sounds like a plan.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Monday, July 16, 2007, at 05:03:46 (ZULU)

Ken,

I'm in. I think it would work out.

Duman
Monday, July 16, 2007, at 16:12:32 (ZULU)

Well the wait is over,My rifle was dropped off by hand on friday,if somone could help I would like to post some pictures so you guys can see it.

Thanks jon

Jon Kujawa
Monday, July 16, 2007, at 17:50:29 (ZULU)

Guys,

What all would I have to do to become a commercial ammo manufacturer? I'm mostly looking at doing cowboy ammo and blanks for mounted shooting. Can't find a decent job, so I guess I'll just create one!

I'm just hoping someone here would know where to start.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, July 16, 2007, at 19:15:01 (ZULU)

Travis:

First issue if you're interested in becoming a real commercial ammunition mfgr is find an insurance carrier. Easier said than done.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, July 16, 2007, at 19:25:37 (ZULU)

breaking news:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/13685005/detail.html

Police Blame Sniper For Shooting Woman Inside Restaurant

Police Searching For Victim's Husband, David Munis

Cheyenne police are searching for a National Guardsman suspected of killing his estranged wife at a restaurant in Cheyenne Saturday morning.

Police said 36-year-old David Munis shot 40-year-old Robin Munis using a high-powered rifle from outside the restaurant where she was singing with a band. Officials said she was shot in the head.

Authorities said Munis has military sniper training. He is a second lieutenant in the Wyoming Army National Guard.

"I saw a couple of guys right here pull out their machine guns. I knew it was something serious there," a witness said.

David and Robin Munis were recently separated, officials said. Police said Robin Munis had complained about receiving harassing phone calls from her husband as recently as Friday.

Police described David Munis as very dangerous.

Anyone with information about his whereabouts should immediately call their local authorities.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, July 16, 2007, at 19:27:47 (ZULU)

Ken, I don't particularly want an FN, but I'll buy a ticket.

More good news: Labor Department Announces It Will Revise

Overreaching OSHA Explosives Rule

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Monday, July 16, 2007, at 21:40:18 (ZULU)

url for Labor Dept and OSHA ammunition regs re-think

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1866766/posts

http://www.nraila.org/images/osha.pdf

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, July 16, 2007, at 22:24:45 (ZULU)

Rod,

Been catching pieces of that story today: Single shot, through (likely) tempered glass door, to wife's mellon while she was on stage. Dunno what rifle he chose to use yet---but shooting thru glass and hitting a head @ 100 yards---I have to assume the stage was not backed up to the door too--so the bullet probably traveled some distance after the barrier--all that makes for some serious variables. Your average 308 wouldn't reliably make a shot like that.

(or as Yote would say: "The bullet's gotta go somewhere")

It got me curious, that's for sure.

Joe M
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 00:50:52 (ZULU)

Im looking to reduce the cost of ammo and need some suggestions.

I buy the .308 175Gr (308GM2) federal match and the .223 GM223M3 round and dont like paying $2 and $1.50 per round respectively.

Can anyone suggest where i can get a good price on a case or two or four?

Jeff
San Jose, Ca, us - Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 02:00:18 (ZULU)

Joe:

There is specialty ammununition for penetrating glass, but concur based on what I've read, shooting thru glass with .308 Win with target any distance behind glass is not a very certain thing.

It's going to be interesting to see how the details on the story develop - the reporting seems to be just a little too cut and dried implication so early in an investigation.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 02:30:40 (ZULU)

Obviously angle and barrier thickness have a factor...but what are some of the other complexities that come into play???And what makes it so difficult for a .308 to penetrate glass reliably?....Thought the .308 was the caliber of choice for many Law Enforcement Agencies...

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 04:24:08 (ZULU)

*********************SPEW ALERT**********************

Click. Funny shit. Anti-gun commercial.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 05:09:01 (ZULU)

UnPat:

The material I've read indicates that .308 Win will go thru most "normal" glass, but the kicker is where the projectile goes after that, and how intact it will be after punching thru the glass.

Part of the reason why .308 Win is the choice of police agency marksmen is the rapid incapacitation performance with a torso hit, which is not the case with say .223 Rem.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 05:39:20 (ZULU)

Rod: The issue isn't bullet integrity---it's deflection. A matchking may shed a jacket, deform, or blow right thru intact---ya never know. But that is just a small part of the rest of the problem.

Bobby had us shooting annealed glass at 100yds, set about 1 yard in front the targets, with the outer end of the firing line having a greater angle of incidence. With just three feet to travel after impacting the medium, bullets were keyholing sideways at the targets, and deflecting as much as 6" from POA. Even with the relative "straight on" shots, there was vertical displacement. Glass is funny stuff to shoot thru. The millisecond stretch on impact begins the deflection, and this varies with where the glass in anchored in relation to the strike, etc etc. In short, counting on a head shot is long odds.

I'm only concerned with what my little 308 bullet does thru glass, and base this on that. But I imagine that a heavy-ass bullet might do better. hell, maybe he shot her with a sharps??? Heheh.

UnPat: (edited to add details): A 308 will get thru glass as well as anything else. But we tend to chamber "accurate" boolits--which may not be the best constructed boolit for punching stuff enroute to target. The boolits designed to hold together and retain mass don't seem to shoot as straight so we don't play with those so much. Bullet selection bites the rifleman's ass when glas barriers get in the way! Glass is weird stuff too---a liquid solid. Generally, a glass door will be tempered glass, a bit harder than the household stuff for safety purposes. No matter how carefully you set up a shot thru glass, the bullet's path is going to alter for a variety of reasons. First, like you said, is angle of incidence. As quick as a projectile smashes thru, it is still a linear series of events with initial impact fllowing Newton's laws: The glass moves with the bullet. This creates a small, new angle of forces for the boolit--and are much harder to predict. The glass is more rigid nearer the framing, so this "stretch" is uneven. The front of the boolit slows slightly while the back is still kicking right in---yaw sets in. Glass reaches breaking point and the spalling takes on the boolit's new velocity out the backside. Now, we have a projectile(s) that may be exchanging front for back, popping out the path of least resistance (which may be angled along the long axis of glass away from the nearest anchor points) going where it may please. Now, the closer the intended target is to the glass, the less any of that matters---but the more distance you have, the less likely you are to hit said target. Angle of initial shot to glass increases all the variables as well. Angling thru glass is bad ju-ju beans. At some point any bullet will bounce off any glass---and increased angles that will penetrate also add to the amount of penetration needed, robbing both velocity and jackets at the same time! How thick is the glass? Is it annealed, tempered or harder stuff still? Even knowing this stuff---the boolit may still blow up on intitial impact!

I like Bobby's solution (and that of LE): Have a buddy send one at the same time, same POA, side by side at the FP.

Joe M
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 05:54:04 (ZULU)

Joe,Rod...

Thanks,I knew the .308 can punch glass...But its where it went after that....even for a straight on shot.Some time back on the L.E.side of the Federal site they had some nice pictures of gel blocks,differant barriers...differant angles...differant calibers,Mostly 9mm,.45ACP and the 223.But there was very little info to get a clearer picture.

If you were to look at the site now alot of the gel block pics were removed and its mostly data tables...Great reading...But I still read Playboy for the pics...

Yes,I know the main point is to keep the greater portion of civilians stupid and from trying this at home.

Thanks again,

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 08:02:37 (ZULU)

I've got a browning A-bolt in .22 rimfire which appears to have a damaged crown. Does it make sense to have a smith recrown it? If so, is there a reasonably priced smith that would do the work?

medicjim
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 15:44:01 (ZULU)

Morning guys, seeking some opinions. I am bouncing around the idea of changing my stock from the traditional m40a1 to either the McMillan A-5 or AIW 1.5. What are your thoughts and opinion. Right now I am leaning toward McMillan.

Darren

Semper Fi

85-90

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 16:16:43 (ZULU)

Medicjim,

Since the crown is already damaged, I don't see how you'd be hurting anything by trying to re-crown it yourself.

I'd suggest a turnip shaped or ball shaped dremel stone. I think the white ones are the soft ones, but I'm not certain. Or maybe one of the bigger ones in a high torque, low speed drill.

I've not tried this, but was giving some thought to re-crowning a Mauser I had at one time.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 18:09:41 (ZULU)

Medic Jim

In Rahway there are quality gunsmiths. Taking the Garden State Pkwy south they are very close to the exit, easy to find.

It's called the New Jersey Firearms Guild

732-382-4066

344 St. Georges Ave

Rahway NJ 07065

Congrats on solving the Squirrel situation, must have been touch and go there for a while

Doug

doug sickels
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 18:10:52 (ZULU)

Fox reports that the NG shooter used a .257---both weatherby and roberts were mentioned, but ol' Roy's favorite creation is more likely of the two. Either has velocity to spare....bullet had to be constructed outta woodpecker lips to get thru, eh?

Fox made a funny choice of an "expert" to explain to us how easy this shot is to make.

The guy musta stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night---cuz expert he is not. I swear, he sounded like he's read three or four issues of Guns and Ammo to get qualified to make an ass of himself. I should know, that was me not too many years back. Heheh! Digression: I can't imagine any situation making you so fully aware of your ignorance than the first 90 days on an A Team. Brutal:)) Anyway, this guy thought the glass door was an 'advantage" for the shooter. Cuz it made the target easier to see! He also said the shot was basically a 7-8 yard deal cuz he probably used "4-6x" optics. I guess good scopes grab yer target and drag it nearer to make it easy to hit. Who knew???

There's something about this story that fascinates the hell outta me. If you ever did new math as division of marital property--you probably know what I mean:))

Joe M
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 18:44:56 (ZULU)

Another good video. *****SPEW ALERT*****

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 18:50:40 (ZULU)

Joe M.,

Speaking of which, anyone seen 'lito?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 18:57:57 (ZULU)

Travis: He's lurkin'

UnDude, Bravo, and anonymous "other folks": My email is acting up---it is a one-way deal right now. Email in---none goes out. I messed with settings, and finally sent everything, and received "undeliverable" messages for my troubles. But, email since this tinkering seems to be working. Sorry for the silence in replies; but I am working on it!

Update: Either "attachments" screw it up, or taking addresses off my contacts screws it up--or both. Received an unsolicited "update" from MS prior to the failure---yes, it is outlook. Anyone else have a similar problem? Better yet--a solution?

Joe M
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 19:21:19 (ZULU)

Travis...

I "r" here!

I'm just up to my ear lobes in legal shit - I have a big hearing next monday (if they don't postpone it AGAIN).

Plus, last summer, when I was doing some research on a petty lie my ex told the DCF, I uncovered that she had swindled the town of Stratford out of $300,000 (Yes, Martha, THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS US$) in a false injury claim against the town (can you spell "Whiplash").

So I went down to the town last week, and dropped dime on her, with a four page sworn affidavit ;)))

(Pat (HA!)... That calls for a TRIPLE HA!!!)

The supervisor wasn't there, so I think that I may hear something in the next few weeks. I gots my fingers crossed.

Back to legal poo-poo...

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 19:45:37 (ZULU)

Well 'Lito, I guess there are "some" advantages to marrying Satan.

I did a lot of glass shooting experiments back in the day, vs tempered, laminate, glass block, various angles and thicknessnes, etc etc. 308 is OK, better than the magnums actually, because of less stress on the bullet. A 50cal or 45/70 works much better'er though.

.257 wouldn't be my cal of choice in any case. That would range from 250/3000 to 25/06 to 257 STW, just not a good idea.

Most buildings are going to use laminate glass for windows IME. Didn't really notice any real world differences on tempered vs laminate, thickness,angle and glass/target standoff were what mattered. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 20:22:38 (ZULU)

Ken M...

>"Well 'Lito, I guess there are "some" advantages to marrying Satan."<

Yeah, but I didn't get any of it - you think she could have bought me a new Hummer to keep my mouth shut ;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 20:42:18 (ZULU)

'Lito-count your blessings, given the current price of petrol, buying you a new Hummer would have been another GOTCHA! for the ex.

BTW, if you can find out who carries the liability insurance for the local burg, you might find them much more intersted in the incident than the local burg. After all, it was their money.

WR Moore
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 21:51:37 (ZULU)

Ken M: My first thoughts when this story broke was army trained= 308, but a "sharps" would get'er done betterer!

But a 12ga slug ought not be discounted, either. They plow thru barriers rather well while not paying as much attention to deflection:)) Mass is a wonderful thing, and it ain't just for sundays!

Will be playing spring experiments with my Para 13 tomorrow. I put the wolf kit 22# in, and it seemed to work right off. But after the session, a thought crept into my head: The slide was not really "bumping" the stops at the back end of travel--it felt strange. Marginal action perhaps---may only just be getting that next round. Gonna try a slightly lighter bullet and see if this is too much spring. I want a gun to function for 230s flawlessly, but oughta workie with 200s as well. At any rate--para undersprung most of their line. I bet the 20# is the ticket. We shall see. And the 10% over magazine springs keep the next round moving up for the faster return to battery--the stock spring (or at least the mag I left stock) wouldn't always feed.

Next project: Steel targets on the range! I got some industrial rack frames (end units) to use as target frames--hang a pair of 20x40s in each, or maybe gongs. Was thinking an old sewer lid would make a nice 1000yd target too. Gonna do this on the cheap!

Joe M
Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at 23:20:26 (ZULU)

Just a quick drop by to note that my email has changed. Send me a line and it will be forwarded to me by my old account. Who do I see to officallly chnage my email account?

Kitty Whacker - See you are still having "fun" with dame hell.

Hi to all you guys on the Rooster. Been a bit busy plying "army instructor". Had one of the student's fathers, who won the DSC in Viet Nam with 5th Group ask me if I really got paid to do this. Had to admit yes I did. :)

For you acronym freaks, SOTIC no longer exists, is now SFSC or Special Forces Sniper Course. Change for change sake.

Getting old and cranky, my kindly old gentleman face is starting to wear. :)

You guys Hold Hard and stay safe.

Rick B.
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 05:03:30 (ZULU)

JoeM.....If I remember correctly, manhole covers and sewer covers are cast, not forged. Be a shame to go to all the trouble to liberate some, then have 'em shatter on you.

Steve the hygenically challenged one is in the midst of the "I want another rifle" itch. Local shop has an AR50 for $2100. Everyone give him your opinion. He's mewling that a .338 might be "more practical". Nah......Do It.....Do it! 50-cal, you ain't got a hair on your a**.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 06:13:10 (ZULU)

I need some reassurance here. Or perhaps some sort of your not alone here speach. Ok, are all children destined to make thier parents old before thier time? I am 45yrs old. By the time I reach 46 I will be a GrandPa. Which will make me old like Bolt, Chuck and others. This will force me to loose wieght and get in shape so I can be a good long lived GrandPa. How damn inconsiderat is that? I know know why when I told my son about how strick my father was he looked at me like I was nuts. Your Dad isn't strick I have never seen him do anything but laugh, sleep and drink three pots of coffee in a day. I now realize the between my brother and me we just plain wore him out. He probably wants to be stern with us but just doesn't have the inner strength any more. I am too young to be a Gramps........Grrr, I still gots my factory teeth and all.

Oh, what set me off on the GrandPa thing was also the fact the local gun store has a New/Used AR-50 in. Sold to a guy that never fired it. So it is used but new. So do I put the money aside to help the youngin when the time comes. We all know it will come. Or seriously concider the new gun?

JoeDucos, Thanks fer the shirt.

RickB, Glad all is well. Keep up the good work.

JoeM. Is the slide battering the frame? If not I would go to a lowwer spring rate. You will get less muzzle flip. I shoot a 10 lbs in my 38 Super. 115gr bullet going 1250fps. Have you picked up a sewer lid? Them things is really heavy. Just get a sheet of 3/8 plate and cut your own. This would run only about 70 bucks for the sheet. But I have not priced it in two years and steel has gone nuts in price. But you make a bunch of targets.

Lito, Most good sized towns are self insured. They keep a lawsuit fund. They will be eager at the thought of getting it back and possibly with interest. Our town will pay you 5K if your involved in an accident just to shut up and go away.

DirtySteve...........

DirtySteve
Texas, USA - Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 06:16:01 (ZULU)

Chuck, You aint helping. Oh I won't be at work tomorrow. Gunna castrate a young man. Just kidding to late for that. At least he has been dating her for over a year.

Dirty Steve........

Dirty Steve
Texas, USA - Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 06:30:41 (ZULU)

Joe M.,

Don't bother with the sewer lid. I bought cast iron skillets for gongs to practice with my single actions. I shot one with my .45 Colt from about 50 ft. or so, and it just punch a hole right through with a 250 gr. bullet over a max load of Trail Boss.

I always wondered about getting a worn out dozer blade and setting it on blocks for a long distance target. Tractor buckets or old residential size propane tanks would also be good sources for the metal. If you ask around, there are probably some tractor salvage yards close to you. Gravel pits tend to just park and abandon stuff, too.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 07:22:59 (ZULU)

Hiya, Rick!

Charles, Travis: Too brittle to shoot, eh? I was hoping that at a K I might get away with it. But it won't do to break one after all the trouble of welding chain to it...

I have a scrap yard that charges by the pound for pick up---20 cents last i checked. Or, you drag in an old car, and leave weighing slightly less, and they pay you the diff. It is hit-or-miss on what is available, but the old bridge girders from old 53 are making their way in that yard. Cutting it into usable shapes is the challenge. Time to make friends with the motor pool at the local engineer battalion I guess:))

Joe M
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 07:47:59 (ZULU)

Joe,

I wanna get ahold of one of those big ass sheets of steel the city uses to cover holes in the road. You know, the ones you could cover a full size truck with?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 08:05:53 (ZULU)

Joe M.

Isn't there a military surplus ( salvage yard) over at Sparta Wisc. Might be worth checking into. I could get a hold of my cousin in Tomah if you want, he would know.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 12:28:30 (ZULU)

Kindly Old Ranger Rick: It's good to see you. We all wish you stupendous success in your work and hope you can make time to post.

From an interview by ABC News reporter and Bin Laden groupie John Miller:

Miller: Describe the situation when your men took down the American forces in Somalia.

Bin Laden: After our victory in Afghanistan and the defeat of the oppressors who had killed millions of Muslims, the legend about the invincibility of the superpowers vanished. Our boys no longer viewed America as a superpower. So, when they left Afghanistan, they went to Somalia and prepared themselves carefully for a long war. They had thought that the Americans were like the Russians, so they trained and prepared. They were stunned when they discovered how low was the morale of the American soldier. America had entered with 30,000 soldiers in addition to thousands of soldiers from different countries in the world. ... As I said, our boys were shocked by the low morale of the American soldier and they realized that the American soldier was just a paper tiger. He was unable to endure the strikes that were dealt to his army, so he fled, and America had to stop all its bragging and all that noise it was making in the press after the Gulf War in which it destroyed the infrastructure and the milk and dairy industry that was vital for the infants and the children and the civilians and blew up dams which were necessary for the crops people grew to feed their families. Proud of this destruction, America assumed the titles of world leader and master of the new world order. After a few blows, it forgot all about those titles and rushed out of Somalia in shame and disgrace, dragging the bodies of its soldiers. America stopped calling itself world leader and master of the new world order, and its politicians realized that those titles were too big for them and that they were unworthy of them. I was in Sudan when this happened. I was very happy to learn of that great defeat that America suffered, so was every Muslim. ...

...Miller: In America, we have a figure from history from 1897 named Teddy Roosevelt. He was a wealthy man, who grew up in a privileged situation and who fought on the front lines. He put together his own men - hand chose them - and went to battle. YOU ARE LIKE THE MIDDLE EAST VERSION OF TEDDY ROOSAVELT.

(My emphasis.)

Now, given the above OBL quote, how do you think the Democrats' proposed "responsible strategic redeployment" would be viewed? What happens then?

CDC'
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 12:56:15 (ZULU)

Joe, Travis,

Manhole covers shatter even at 1000 yds even with a 308. Plus they just don't seem to have that nice ring of a 3/8 hot rolled sheet of steel.

Travis,

Street plate is good stuff but heavier than all get out. Has a nice ring to it.. but it's hardened and any steel bullets will bounce off. Bad thing about that is they often bounce straight back. Don't ever shoot at one under 300 yards... The 3/8 stuff well hung, you can get away with shooting it up close..

Check this out..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc

That's one lucky dude !

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 13:08:14 (ZULU)

Joe M - Many of the larger fire departments now carry some form of cutting device. We have an exothermic torch that will cut plate steel like butter. If someone in my AO asked to have plate steel cut,, we'd have a field day...it's hard to find good stuff to practice on.

medicjim
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 14:26:55 (ZULU)

*********Prayers Requested**********

Guys, bad news in my AO lately. Had a chemical plant explode a half hour north of us yesterday. Entire town evacuated.

Then, this morning, 3 A.M., 2 officers responded to shots fired, both were shot. I believe on was treated and released, the other was critical. Both lower torso hits. It was a murder suicide and, apparently, one other person shot but escaped.

Don't know what all happened, but it sure makes me wish people could ask for help before they make their lives and the lives of others worse, or end them.

Thankfully, me and mine are safe, but I'm thinking the wife will be more motivated to move to the sticks, like I want.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 14:34:10 (ZULU)

Rick, say it is not so? First they dump 8541 and now change SOTIC? Just not right. Take care and we will talk soon.

Joe, I will contact you when we get something more solid on my end. If I send email and it is not answered back in few days I will post note here. My cell number is on my website Tacticalintervention.com

Well bad and good news.

Bad is wife is going in for major surgery on 26 July and wont be working for atleast two months. Pray it all goes well. She is PIA but I love her and she puts up with me (Obviously not as bright as she looks)

Good news just got order for 620 slings for USMC DMR Rifles so working like dog here.

Undude/Mike

MikeMiller
Ca, - Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 15:04:18 (ZULU)

All -- sighhh.... CNN marveling at military sniper mindset, discipline, etc... over that Army Sniper that popped his wife.

These bastards gotta feed on something - right? bottom feeders need to eat too - or do they?

Take care all -- :)

Be sure to checkout the pistol raffle - to be drawn @ shot show 2008.

http://www.pistolraffle.com

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, VA, USofA - are there any leaders with Integrity out there??? - Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 15:51:23 (ZULU)

My LAUGH FOR THE DAY...

>"... my kindly old gentleman face is starting to wear. :)"< ... Rick B.

HA! - I remember that face from way back, and it was dog ugly, and nothing kindly about it!

Rick... I think it is winding down, and this Goddamn thing should be over soon, and so far, I'm lookin' good for it.

If she winds up in "Da joint", then I'm REALLY lookin' good for it ;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 16:10:47 (ZULU)

Joe M, you get the steel and need someone to cut it and can't find anyone local, I can either bring up a torch or my new plasma cutter and slice and dice the stuff.

Welding to cast usually comes off badly too. Pierce and bolt is better'er.

Junk yards up there are screwing you. Here, I get paid for bringing them scrap, basic steel is couple hundred/ton and aluminum is through the roof. Alloy steel gets a premium too. I also have a service that pays to pick up our used oil. I'm actually liking this recycling thing a bunch. Now, if we would just use our recycled fats to make explosives to kill savages like in the bad old days, I'd be ecstatic. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 20:16:01 (ZULU)

Metal Gongs - try the turntable thingie on the back end of a 18-wheeler tractor. The Sierra Vista Gun Club in Sierra Vista AZ has one at the 200 yard line. It's been there for at least 15 years. I figger the sloped armor effect keeps it from being torn up.

The club also has a painted rock at 545 yards that makes a very satisfying thump when hit with a Black Hills .308.

There was a place in Marin County near Two Rock that had a 3 foot diameter piece of 'armor' that has the center shot out of it. Took many years to do it.

Trajan Aurelius
East Bay, Kalifornya, USA!! - Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 22:19:51 (ZULU)

Joe,

I've found that Bushhog blades make very hard and inexpensive targets. The larger ones, from highway mowers, are very hard and if you find some one who works for the Highway Dept., you might be able to get their used ones for nothing.

They are smaller but easy to hit at 400 yrds with a good scope. Let them hang loose and they will withstand a hit from a .50 BMG without even getting a dimple in them. Ask me how I know. Even armor piercing stuff won't hurt it. They're hard enough to make a resounding ring when hit. Loads of fun.

Indiansinger

Roger C. Carpenter
Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 02:35:13 (ZULU)

JoeM, You can get a sheet of 4'X8' plate from a local steel supplier. 1/4" will run about 70 bucks 3/8 should be about 80. Then take it to a local sheet metal shop. They can shear the metal in about a second to the sizes you want. It should run about 15 bucks. It will have a very clean edge. I learned to seek out these folks when I had a BBQ pit made. I had a shop shear s few pieces and break another sheet in to a big trough shaped piece. Made making the pit real quick and easy. Dad was a welder so he knew all this fabrication stuff.

Also a disc from a farm implement(Disc Harrow or some such name) works great but has a hole dead center. You could check around farm equipment dealers. They are about 18" round with a 3" hole in the center. Sometimes they crack and need relpaced.

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
Texas, USA - Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 05:12:56 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve: Sonuvagun! I have a few older discs out back somewhere in the pasture. I also have a pile of some kinda railroad steel plates (4-6" wide) that could fill those holes too.

Ken M: My yard pays for scrap coming in---but it charges for scrap going out. I was thinking of exchanging a few old cars for some bridge steel (and a few bucks)--I may not have been lucid about that part. Once I scour the AO for available steel, I'll see what "prep" needs to be done. I will supply the beer, of course.

Roger: Been thinking about buying a bushhog for my JD. Clearing undergrowth with a chainsaw is a PITA. And I'm not talking weedwhacker sized growth:))

I'm still battling Box Alders too. Anyone know what is in the oil that coats the leaves??? That crap gave the boy and I one heck of a rash last year.

Para testing got rained on today. Hung a door instead:))

Joe M
Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 06:55:42 (ZULU)

Joe on boxelder vegetation:

Wikipedia says this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_ivy

Boxelder (Acer negundo) saplings can look almost indistinguishable from poison ivy. While box elder trees often have five or seven leaflets, three leaflets are also common. The two can be differentiated by the fact that poison ivy has alternate leaves, while the boxelder has opposite leaves; in other words, by observing where the leaf stalk (the "branch" the three leaflets are attached to) meets the main branch. Another leaf stalk directly on the opposite side is characteristic of Box elder. If the three-leaflet leaves alternate along the main branch, it may be poison ivy.

(Article has photos)

So you may have been actually dealing with poison ivy!

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 12:09:01 (ZULU)

Joe M.,

I know you're trying to go cheap; but you might get some ideas from here:

www.mgmtargets.com

I think "Andy's dad" had one of these a long time back.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The muggy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 15:03:30 (ZULU)

JoeM, I have some of those railroad plates too. They are a bit heavy. I welded up the spike holes by putting 3/8ths inch strap over them. The disc works well because it swings well when hit. Heavy plate just has to sit there and take the punishment till it gets fatigued and breaks. You could try using an old disc to fill the holes in the other ones used for targets. But I don't know how much punishment it would take before it fails since it is mild and welding it may weaken it more. You can hang it by drilling some holes in it and wiring it to a chain.

MGM targets. You can blast that crap from 10 yrds with a 308 or 223 and it just puts a minor blemish on it. That stuff is harder than a whore's heart. Our pistol club bought some of these and we field tested them.

Dirty Steve.......

Dirty Steve
Texas, USA - Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 17:49:48 (ZULU)

Guys,

Those blades from a disc are about $70, new. Not all that sure they'll take repeated hits from a rifle. The shape would cause me to worry about ricochets.

Joe,

If you have a bunch of those discs, you can probably trade them to your horseshoer for shoeing. They make the best hoofstands you can get. If you wanted to make up a few to consign at the feedstore, just weld a piece of pipe (1 1/2"?) into the hole, then put a square piece of hoof rasp on top of the pipe. I made mine with a piece of sucker rod inside the pipe, and welded the rasp to the top, with holes for a crosspin to adjust it, but that turned out to be superfluous. I ended up just cutting it to the height that worked the best for me. If you decide to do this, call me, I'll run out and measure my stand for dimensions.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 19:05:13 (ZULU)

My political post

Legislature alert! I typed this up, so read it!

Introduced May 8, 2007 – Last action: Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary – not currently scheduled for debate. This bill is in the first stage of the legislative process where the bill is considered in committee and may undergo significant changes in markup sessions. The bill has been referred to the following committees: Senate Judiciary.

Sponsor: Dianne Feinstein

Cosponsors: babs boxer, hitlery clinton, christopher dodd, richard durbin, ‘chappaquiddick’ kennedy, frank lautenberg, carl levin, robert menendez, barbara mikulski, and little chucky schumer.

Note!!!: Members of that committee:

patrick leahy (chairman), ‘chappaquiddick’ kennedy, joseph biden, herbert kohl, dianne feinstein, russell feingold, little chucky schumer, richard durbin, benjamin cardin, sheldon whitehouse, arlen specter (president), orrin hatch, charles grassley, jon kyl, jeffersion sessions, lindsey graham, john cornyn.

S. 1331: A bill to regulate .50 BMG caliber sniper rifles

S 1331 IS

110th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 1331

To regulate .50 BMG caliber sniper rifles.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

May 8, 2007

Mrs. FEINSTEIN (for herself, Mr. KENNEDY, Mr. LEVIN, Mr. MENENDEZ, Ms. MIKULSKI, Mrs. CLINTON, Mr. DURBIN, Mrs. BOXER, Mr. LAUTENBERG, Mr. SCHUMER, and Mr. DODD) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

A BILL

To regulate .50 BMG caliber sniper rifles.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Long-Range Sniper Rifle Safety Act of 2007'.

SEC. 2. COVERAGE OF .50 BMG CALIBER SNIPER RIFLES UNDER THE GUN CONTROL ACT OF 1968.

(a) In General- Section 921(a)(4)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) by striking `any type of weapon' and inserting the following: `any--

`(i) type of weapon'; and

(2) by striking `and' at the end and inserting the following: `or

`(ii) .50 BMG caliber sniper rifle; and'.

(b) Definition of .50 BMG Caliber Sniper Rifle- Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(36) The term `.50 BMG caliber sniper rifle' means--

`(A) a rifle capable of firing a center-fire cartridge in .50 BMG caliber, including a 12.7 mm equivalent of .50 BMG and any other metric equivalent; or

`(B) a copy or duplicate of any rifle described in subparagraph (A), or any other rifle developed and manufactured after the date of enactment of this paragraph, regardless of caliber, if such rifle is capable of firing a projectile that attains a muzzle energy of 12,000 foot-pounds or greater in any combination of bullet, propellant, case, or primer.'.

SEC. 3. COVERAGE OF .50 BMG CALIBER SNIPER RIFLES UNDER THE NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT.

(a) In General- Section 5845(f) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(f)) is amended--

(1) by striking `and (3)' and inserting `(3) any .50 BMG caliber sniper rifle (as that term is defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and (4)'; and

(2) by striking `(1) and (2)' and inserting `(1), (2), or (3)'.

(b) Modification to Definition of Rifle- Section 5845(c) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(c)) is amended by inserting `or from a bipod or other support' after `shoulder'.

SEC. 4. IMPLEMENTATION.

Not later than 30 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Attorney General shall implement regulations providing for notice and registration of .50 BMG caliber sniper rifles as destructive devices (as those terms are defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by this Act) under this Act and the amendments made by this Act, including the use of a notice and registration process similar to that used when the USAS-12, Striker 12, and Streetsweeper shotguns were reclassified as destructive devices and registered between 1994 and 2001 (ATF Ruling 94-1 (ATF Q.B. 1994-1, 22); ATF Ruling 94-2 (ATF Q.B. 1994-1, 24); and ATF Ruling 2001-1 (66 Fed. Reg. 9748)). The Attorney General shall ensure that under the regulations issued under this section, the time period for the registration of any previously unregistered .50 BMG caliber sniper rifle shall end not later than 7 years after the date of enactment of this Act.

I’ll be writing my notes to (Wh)orrin (Sn)hatch, you guys get your letters in!

Bravo
Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 20:15:20 (ZULU)

My personal post:

You all heard it here first: ‘Lito admits that part of the reason he’s nailin’ the ex is ‘cause she took 3 large and didn’t give him a hummer.

Packages – I still need to burn a CD (at least I got the files ready to burn), then I’ve got three packages ready to go out. Duman, you get the SPECIAL box. I’m starting a tradition here…. Keep the box, and only use it to send goodies to another shooter. One from the roaster would be ideal. I’ll let you in on the history of the box when you get it, but it’s WAY cool.

Dirty Steve – go with what our buddy Chuck said – the price on the 50 is good! Heck, I got mine about $25 under distributors cost, and it was still more than that. Sure hope things are going well for you there – Gramps ;-)

Sling swivels and such: I noted that the same kind of flush-mount swivel also failed on a certain Patron while I was hanging about. He caught the stick before it impacted, so nothing was lost really – other than I’m sure confidence in the sling swivels! Since he posted about swivels, I’ll leave it to his comments. Even so, I sure hope your wife comes out of everything OK.

As for me, some years ago I had a disturbing dream. Dreams for me only happen rarely, so when they do happen, I pay attention out of curiosity. In this dream, I was climbing a tall tower with Betty Lou slung (had to take a shot at the top of the tower), when one of my swivels gave way and she fell stories to land on the dirt. That’s a bothersome dream! So I checked into everything, and ordered some Wichita sling swivels. I found out the hard way that the A+ answer is to order your McMillan stock made with ‘em from the get-go, but since I hadn’t, Geoff did a GREAT job of retrofitting. To have a sling swivel come out would require removing a fist-sized chunk of stock, and the swivels themselves are sturdy enough to lock on to and pull a stuck Chev out of the mud.

I recommend that set-up. They’re not noisy, and even if they get that way there’s always the handyman’s best friend. What’s more, I don’t concern myself about pulling too tightly on the sling any more ;-) Marc, I do, to the extent of someone who has only experienced that once (and with a relatively CHEAP stick), feel your pain.

Hey Chuck, what’s this about racing mountain bikes in The Republic? I’ve lived all over that country, and never seen any mountains! Er, are you talking about the hills out by Big Bend? I think I’m gonna have to start doing ruck marches again, and the thought doesn’t really appeal to me. Wanna start an ambulance LOL! I’ve got a feeling you guys should invest in ibuprofen stock. This coming year, I’m not gonna allow myself to get so dogged. That’s not to be interpreted as a challenge to Rich though ;-)

Duman, a Caddy Shack quote? Am I the only guy that noticed that almost every Rodney Dangerfield movie ended with a party and a Journey song?

Jon, the new Lapua brass got treated to the Lyman M die only, so the neck expansion was done that way. I dunno about the ‘grip’ on the primer, but I’m beginning to formulate a new theory! I checked a few of the cases against my chamber and against SAAMI spec. The new cases were undersized. I’m wondering if that couldn’t have set up a headspace issue. Like I said, just a theory.

Rod, bulk reactants and surface chemistry? No, not at all. Not unless there is some kind of funky burn-rate modifier that is surface coated that I’m not aware of.

JR, thanks! Manners it was! Now what kind of weight can I get a 6.5mm bore down to, 0.650” at the muzzle of a 26” tube? BTW, the Manners stocks appear to offer about a 2 pound reduction in weight from the McMillan I was looking at!

Alliant powders – it appears things have changed from the last look I gave ‘em. Consider what I said before to be ‘out of date’. Man, things in this industry change quick!

Not like Bobby needs backing up, but my research as well indicates that the 870 is the top-notch pick in pumps. A couple of years ago, when I decided to give the shotgun a better try, I wound up breaking my 870. One of our own here –and the Smithy honcho at The Ranch- told me I was not only the first to break an 870 in that way he’d ever seen, I was the first case like that he’d ever heard of. I broke a hammer pin kind of. I asked if a Mossy military model would be more robust, and he answered definitively in the negative. Good ‘nuff for me! For a full-on build, I’d recommend my Almost Famous Uncle Hans (VangComp). Lots of stuff going on at his shop, with new products scheduled to come out between now and the first of 2008, including sights that are better than the current best. You’d recognize his stuff on the 870 I’ve got.

Ken, let me get a bit of dough in my pocket, I’ll be in on the Steyr. And the pistol. What the heck, a bullet has to go somewhere!

Patron Joe, after arguing on the internet with some obvious ‘experts’ on glass shooting, I finally got the straight dope – the shot was fired through an open window. And here all this time I’d been saying “I don’t buy it” about the through-glass stuff. Gee. They didn’t want to believe that 1” to 2” of deflection PER FOOT was possible – imagine! Maybe I shouldn’t have seen it with my own eyes LOL!

Bravo
Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 20:16:17 (ZULU)

Jul. 19, 2007 18:09 | Updated Jul. 19, 2007 21:51

Ahmadinejad: It's going to be a 'hot' summer in the ME

By JPOST STAFF AND AP

It's going to be a "hot" summer in the Middle East, said Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad following a surprise meeting with Hizbullah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah in Damascus on Thursday evening, Channel 10 reported.

Nasrallah allegedly entered Syria via an underground tunnel, the television channel said.

"We hope that the hot weather of this summer will coincide with similar victories for the region's peoples, and with consequent defeat for the region's enemies," Ahmadinejad added, in an apparent reference to Israel.

Yup yup yup.....

Out here

Gooch
Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 20:45:17 (ZULU)

Bravo...

>"You all heard it here first: ‘Lito admits that part of the reason he’s nailin’ the ex is ‘cause she took 3 large and didn’t give him a hummer."<

Around here, that would be "300 large" - but youz guys have more money than us guys ;)

... and if she gave me a Hummer, I still woulda dropped a dime on the bitch, and flipped her the bird from my Hummer ;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 21:17:23 (ZULU)

Joe M,

The MGM targets are good. I have a 'pistol popper', which will handle a rifle slug if placed 100+ yds. out (per instructions). Some wanker shot mine last year, with a 270 from 10-yds. away. Didn't penetrate, but put a small, very shallow crater in surface. I wanted to put a small, shallow crater in wanker's head.

Once that surface is gone, i'll turn plate around. Supposed to be good for tens-of-thousands of rounds. Rustoleum makes it look pretty again, keeping rust at bay.

Expensive, but will last forever, with some care.

Duman
Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 21:34:29 (ZULU)

how many international sports can you have a successful 40-year "career"...

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/story.html?id=01fdf042-d555-4b01-ad4b-9fe368b0fb76&k=91421 or click my name

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, July 19, 2007, at 22:04:27 (ZULU)

Oh!

You meant THAT kind of hummer!!!!

If you ever go that route, there's a kansan outfit that stuffs duramax's in, but remember: Turbos are nice....but wouldn't you rather be blown?

Joe M
Friday, July 20, 2007, at 02:44:11 (ZULU)

All of this legal shit is going to drive 'Lito crazy. Next thing you know he'll be shopping for a Cheytac with a USO on it :)

I have a problem with my Redding competition bullet seater that I'm using for my new .243. It's the same die I use for my .260 and .308 but this one does not straighten the bullet before seating. They seat so far out of, uh, straightness(?) that you can clearly see it by looking at it point on. The sliding sleeve inside of the die does not work as the other two I have. The others are pushed up into the die when the shellholder makes contact with the bottom of the sleeve. With this one the sleeve goes up in the die when the shellholder is still 1/2 of an inch below it, then when the sleeve hits the top the bullet is seated by the last bit of ram stroke. This means the sliding sleeve mechanism doesn't have time to straighten out the bullet before seating. I called Redding and the gentlemen there said he couldn't understand what it would be and advised that I send it in with some of my sized brass and bullets. By the way it's unfired, FL resized Lapua brass and 115 DTAC (SMK I think) bullets with moly. I think maybe the sleeve is just a little tight inside.

I've been trying to set the bullet on the mouth as straight as possible and it's getting super tight little bughole groups for me but it's more time consuming to do it that way.

Rick- Good to hear from you, hope your well and I wish you had time to post more often. You'll never know how much I've learned from your posts over the years here on the Roaster.

I think I'm feeling confident in my sling swivels now. I put one of Mike's slings on my A5 GAP rifle and torture tested the hell out of them. I was really abusive with all of the yanking and popping against them and they stuck just like they're supposed to. That being said, I think I'll carry it slung muzzle down with the rifle behind me and my right hand will stay down under the scope so if it falls it's already in my hand.

On steel targets- I like these alot http://lvsteeltargets.com/main.htm

Kurt is a good guy and he shoots in many of our west coast matches. Even if you don't buy something from him you can get ideas on what to build yourself by looking at his photos.

Mike- Sorry to hear about your wife's upcoming surgery. I think you mentioned once that she works in the medical field so hopefully she can get solid info on who the best docs are and have it done in a good hospital. Connections in the medical bidness are a good thing!

I'm taking my little brother fishing this weekend in the bay around Alcatraz and under the Golden Gate bridge. Gonna give the rifles a little break for now so I can watch him get seasick in a little 2 foot wind chop LOL.

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area CA, - Friday, July 20, 2007, at 03:41:47 (ZULU)

Do any of you gentlemen know anything about home security systems? I'd like to rig a couple of cameras than will come on when an intruder enters and will send the photos or video somewhere secure via the web.

During our distinguished Senate's sleepover/blather-a-thon, all of the honorable gentlemen were in agreement on one point: We are engaged in combat operations against al Qa'eda. Somebody explain to me why that is a bad thing.

Mike Miller: Major surgery is bad stuff. I hope Mrs. Undude has a quick and full recovery.

CDC'
Friday, July 20, 2007, at 09:52:04 (ZULU)

'Lito,

RE: PDAs. Just had one go belly up. Everything powers up, touch screen fails. Won't take input. Maybe if I had portable keyboard, might gain access. Otherwise, scrap material. Model: iPAQ-rz1710.

Good thing everything backed up on PC.

Duman
Friday, July 20, 2007, at 17:17:54 (ZULU)

Mike, I hope all goes well with the surgery.

CDC, I don't no squat about alarms but click on my name and maybe this carema system would be usefull. You could connect it to a hard drive type recorder and monitor the place while you were away. There should be a way to set it up to record only when motion is detected but that skill is above my pay grade.

Shooting those plow disc's. They should be fine as long as they swing freely. Chuck (Charles H. ) and I have shot one for several years and have not have a round come back. I would keep the shooting at 200 yards or more. We shoot them at 500 makes a nice whack when struck.

Bravo, I may buy it just cause it is looking like the demo's are not wanting me to have it. I was wanting to make a grown up decision about wheter to save money or spend on toys. The demo's make that a hard thing to do. I was leaning toward the 338 Lapua but I dunno. I just can not make up my mind. Maybe I should talk to my wife about my dilema. She may say get them both. I called he once "Just to say, I Love You". She asked if I was in a gun shop. I said yes. She asked how much. I said 1K. She said ok, and I hung up. Then called her back to say, "I Loves you" she said just one. I hung up again. HA..

I don't see how they can make you register something you already own. That would make it an ex-post facto law which is illegal. But that minor problems like that never stops the Gobernment.

DirtySteve.....

Dirty Steve
Texas, USA - Friday, July 20, 2007, at 18:46:32 (ZULU)

CDC, email sent. No attatchments.

Sean
Winnipeg, Mb., Canada - Friday, July 20, 2007, at 23:30:04 (ZULU)

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