July 2001
I think he can forget about having a 1000 yard range on 17+ acres of land. If it's only 1 acre wide (69 yards) and 17 long (1170+- yards)he'll make it but it'll be a little cramped.
I shoot on many farms in the Montgomery/Frederick county area. Give
a shout e-mail and maybe we can hook-up for some shooting (500 to 600 yards).
Dave "Doc" King <David_L_King@Yahoo.Com>
Damascus, MD, USA - Sunday, July 01, 2001 at 00:40:45 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.78.126.27)
What type and thickness steel are you using in your targets?
Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Sunday, July 01, 2001 at 02:20:21 (ZULU)
(your host address: 64.251.141.223)
My gong is 1-1/2" thick hot rolled plate by 9" diameter.
The rifle rounds crater the heck out of it but it's still there.
My larger target (in the shop) is 1/2" hot rolled and it too gets
pretty beat up but it works. When this IPSC shaped target gets ruined I'm
going to replace it with 3/8" armor plate. To the tune of $150 I'm not
in a hurry. I think I can get this year out of the old steel before I've
got to bite the bullet for the armor plate.
We took the laser with us today and my pace count is way off. The 500 yard firing point is only 458 yards. We fired at odd distances today because the gong is close to the ground and can get lost behind a slight roll in the field. Eventually the IPSC steel will be at 5 feet high and we'll be able to shoot from anywhere and still see it.
We must mow the grass on the bank because we can't see our misses. It's pretty frustrating to be all the way out and have one doubtful shot after another. The wind was gusting so the shooting was off and on.
Still working with the M3LR. It's not tracking exactly as I expected. Still too early to tell.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Sunday, July 01, 2001 at 04:53:45
(ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.205.63)
Drove down to Sunnyvale Rod and Gun for a day of shooting in the excellent weather. Was firing off a bipod when I noticed something that happened after I shot. The recoil would leave my sight picture to the left of where I was aiming. I'm guessing it's something in my technique, maybe not checking the natural point of aim. My buddy had the same problem, which was odd because he used to be a competition shooter.
Definitely a day to get out and send some rounds down range.
Semper Fi.
Alan
Alan <usmc308@hotmail.com>
San Francisco, CA, USA - Sunday, July 01, 2001 at 08:04:11 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.179.193.183)
Alan: Sight picture going to the left is the torque reaction of the
rifle to the bullet moving through the barrel (being spun by rifling actually).
Your bipod may not be directly under the rifle or it may be due to bounce.
Only time I've noticed this (may not have been only time happened) was
this week. I was using a flatbed trailer as a shooting position for 600
yard work. Think the recoil bounce from the 2 X 10's that make up the trailer
bed may have had something to do with it.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
VA, USA - Sunday, July 01, 2001 at 11:32:33 (ZULU) (your host address:
158.106.50.3)
Two Shoes
Dos Zap
Terry <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Sunday, July 01, 2001 at 13:35:36 (ZULU) (your host address:
64.12.102.181)
I'd never shot from a bipod until I was a student at Badlands Tactical Training Facility during the monsoon that broke last year's 7+ month drought. Our bipods started sinking into the mud, so we craftily propped them on boards - and all of a sudden couldn't hit sh*t! Back to the mud, and all was rosy.
This may not be definitive (I later pulled off some fancy shots from the training tower's wooden deck), but I'd be careful about hard-surfaced firing positions.
Difficult shots are not improved by "Bipod-Bounce."
Earl North <Kettlebelly@Hotmail.com>
KC, MO, USA - Sunday, July 01, 2001 at 13:49:43 (ZULU) (your host address:
192.23.165.4)
Test the Black Hills moly coated 6.5 X .284 ammo yesterday, again. First groups were on the order of 3" then opened to 6", at 600 yards. Not bad, but still the same thing I see at 100 yards. The first groups are good, but after that things open up. Have come to the conclusion that the gun just doesn't like moly...
This was done after properly breaking in and cleaning the rifle per Jeff Hoffman's (Black Hills Ammo Pres.) instructions. Am going back to non-moly and STAYING THERE!
The new Geoff Corn M25 shot incredibly! It loves 175 gr. Sierra's (Black Hills factory load) and chronographed an honest 2612 FPS. Now to get the proper cam and hand loads developed and I'll be s******* in tall cotton!
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Sunday, July 01, 2001 at 15:49:58 (ZULU) (your
host address: 198.145.248.96)
I must admit, you have lost me. I don't think I send those to you directly? Unless under another email address? I don't mind, and if you want you can contact me direct and I can add you - whether you get MAN/Magnum or not. I must admit, when doing that one, I was thinking about the guys here and what THEY do with a .308 - contemplated writing a letter to the editor.
For you others wondering what all this is about - I also translate the odd Afrikaans article in the local hunting/shooting magazine, making it available to foreign (outside RSA borders) readers for free.
So this is a little detour of the site's normal contents.
Marius
Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
RSA - Sunday, July 01, 2001 at 16:47:07 (ZULU) (your host address:
155.239.180.205)
From what I have seen and tried myself, this only occurs with Harris bipods. I myself use a Parker Hale and it's POI changes a bit when shooting from a hard surface, but the group size remains the same. The Harris equiped rifles I've shot were all over the place when shooting from a hard surface. My theory is this: I shoot the PH equiped weapon with the rifle pushed forward. Since the PH bipods have so much play, it'll allow the feet to remain in place, while the gun recoils, using the top of the bipod as sort of a hinge. The Harris' legs are dragged back since this bipod is as solid as it get's. On hard surfaces it starts to bounce.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Stefan
Stefan <sniperhide@run.to>
Behind my PC screen, Liking my Parker Hale more and more in, The Netherlands
- Sunday, July 01, 2001 at 19:00:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 213.46.159.37)
Yep....they bounce alright.
I've found that I shoot better with my bipod off the ground than I do off a bench. If this is because there is less bounce then so be it.
I've also discovered that I need to get some height to have a comfortable shooting position. This requires a longer extension of the Harris legs but if I lean into the rifle and "hold hard" I can still get good groups.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Sunday, July 01, 2001 at 19:15:16
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.105.177)
Not having been able to work at 600 yards in ten years or so, I'd
like to think some of the results was skill.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
VA, USA - Sunday, July 01, 2001 at 22:12:09 (ZULU) (your host address:
158.106.50.3)
For what it's worth the 180 power points also outshoot the Federals by a slight but measurable margin, so much so that I've been buying them at $12.00 a box at Walmart and replacing the PP with 175 MK's for the downrange ballistics. Beats $25.00 a box for the GM. May be just this rifle, but they work for me.
Pat T
Pat T <patidwelljr@juno.com>
Upalnd, Ca, USA - Monday, July 02, 2001 at 01:20:02 (ZULU) (your host
address: 204.157.43.148)
re;bouning bipod.
Try even and firm rearward pressure into the shoulder with the firing hand......don't drive the shoulder forward. As you do that, apply light/even/consistant/firm downward pressure with the cheek.
You'll be able to follow the longer shots all the way to the target.
Shoot off concrete and ya'll are on your own!
Mike
Mike in Texas <appspec1@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Monday, July 02, 2001 at 02:17:53 (ZULU) (your host address:
172.159.190.166)
Undude- I am still kicking and I have replaced my old sling with the one you sent me. I can see how you made it stronger. I checked it out on the range last month-will really work it out this month. Of course, no problems expected. The pack strap won't work out-the carrying of the rifle is wrong. I have an idea I will try out and get back to you. BTW- you should be getting a call/order from my state boys. They came to see me last week on some sniper stuff and they fell in love with your sling.
Rob Olive- if you don't mind I'll offer my two cents on the TAP ammo.
Absolutly love it. Look at the manual and order based on the performace
there. I personally don't believe in 14" as a minimum penetration for rifle
ammo, but that is just me. This is the important part about the TAP ammo-
IMHO do not use the TAP 55 grain (we use the 60 grain). The reason being
that there actualy are two different 55 grain TAP loads- one for Mil-spec
guns, one is for others. You have to be very specific. The 223 spec rounds
will not reliably function the 5.56 chambered rifles. Your Bushmasters
are 5.56 chambered. I just think there are too many chances for Mr Murphy
to screw thingsa up if you go with 55 grain ammo (especially if you do
not order the ammo yourself!) The 60 grains work in every AR we have.
I recently switched to the NXS 3.5-15 x 50 scope you asked about.
I like it better than my Leupold M1LR. My partner tried it out-his NXS
scope is coming in next week to replace his Leupold. I like the focus,
illuminated reticle and clarity better. My only real complaint is that
the lit reticle can not be adjusted easily and it is a large scope. A smaller
objective would have been perfect IMHO.
JUst FYI- I know of a sniper team that went through 4 of the new
M1LR lit reticles recently-all burned out somehow. These were the new angled
lit turret version. Our old straight lit turrets never gave any problems
at all. Leupold did replace the scopes for them ASAP...
Feel free to email for anything I can help with.
oh yeah- WES!!! what about those thigh mag holders with kydex you were trying?
Take care- (you too Stan, wherever you are)
Mike T
Mike T <Riflemike@home.com>
USA - Monday, July 02, 2001 at 03:11:15 (ZULU) (your host address:
65.11.197.193)
I had the same problem several years ago when shooting in the Varmint Hunters match. The targets were fairly close togeather and after shooting you would look through the scope and you were about four targets off. If you didn't check the number you would shoot someone elses target. Trust me when I say that there were a lot of cross fires that day.
I attended a sniper school a short time after that match and when I read that part of the course was speed shooting with 5 rounds in something like 20sec. at a 1 inch paster. I thought there was no way this would happen with a 308 because of the time it took to get back on target after recoil.
When we went prone, I along with all the others, were told to "NOT" to lay off on the usual 45 degree angle that I had always used but to lay directly behind the rifle in a straight line, legs slightly spread with the insides of your feet flat on the ground, with the rifle tucked into the shoulder. at first I thought he was crazy and it was somewhat uncomfortable but after shooting it for awhile it became quite natural.
The important thing is that when the rifle recoils it goes straight up and does "NOT" twist off to the side and come down 4 targets off to the left like before. I was amazed at how fast a second shot could be made and how accurate it was. I shot some .6 groups in the speed shooting phase of the class to my utter amazement.
We were not on a hard surface but on the ground with the bipods so
maybe it will make some difference if your on a hard surface but its worth
a try. I know there was a world of difference from when I was shooting
in the conventional prone position. Hope this helps!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, July 02, 2001 at 13:41:15 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.3)
Thats a new one on me and it makes sense. Thanks for the point!
I always made people use that position if possible, but it was because if you are laying in a straight line facing your target, you are harder to spot, harder to hit and can hide almost your entire body behind one sandbag.
I was always surprised how many people like the 45 degree angle position.
Thanks for an excellent point.
Jefe <diabloazul01@hotmail.com>
- Monday, July 02, 2001 at 14:54:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 200.30.103.130)
The only problem with it is sometimes the colarbone can take a pounding
with a hard kicker. He also showed a trick that makes a 7lb trigger feel
like a 3lb trigger but I could not get used to it and all my triggers are
at around 2.5lbs anyway. It does work though when using a real heavy trigger.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, July 02, 2001 at 16:08:25 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.3)
Recoil/bipods. The rifle doesn't know if it shooting off of a bipod or not so its not a bipod specific qiestion. It is a fundamentals of marksmanship question. It has to do with natural point of aim, position etc. The point was made about laying off at an angle being bad and that is a good point. When you get behind the gun set the gun down pointing at the target, stand behind it a few paces back and do a push up down to the gun. There should be a straignt line running down the bore into your shoulder and out the strongside leg. If you want to cock the strongside leg a little to get the diaphram off the deck then cock it A LITTLE. If you cant get comfortable laying directly behind the gun then you need to adjust LOP (Stock length), eye relief etc.
NATURAL POINT OF AIM. Put the rifle in your shoulder in firing position, close your eyes, relax and look through the scope. You should be close to the aiming area. If not adjust your body behind the gun and repeat. If you force the rifle onto target the rifle will recoil and come down where it wanted to be in the first place, if you force it back it will keep doing this. The technique of natural point of aim is the technique that allows a rifleman to fire a string of fire such as the rapid fire in a NRA highpower match without having to adjust after every shot.
17 acre 1000 yard range. DUDE!!! What about whats behind the range? You are accountable for every round that impacts out of your property. Unless you baffle the thing you are asking for trouble. I don't know if you guys know it or not I am now a Range Technical Team Advisor for the NRA and we get a lot of these types of questions.
If ya'll want more info contact NRA Range Serices at 703 267 1417. The National Association of Shooting Ranges has a website that you can use at www.rangeinfo.org.
Out here.
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Monday, July 02, 2001 at 16:54:05 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.214.52.139)
Gooch - Hi Snot brother! - Post is good and right on. But I cock my leg alot and then rest on my left hip. This points my left foot towards the right foot and allows my observer to get right over my gun target line. Layng off at an angle causes recoil to knock the shooter off natural point of aim more and more with each shot. Once on a natural point of aim the gun falls back onto target with no effort and aids in rapid firing in a target rich environment. Gotta love those environments!
On hard surfaces with bipods, sew up a layer of closed cell foam and canvas. Softens without the bounce of rubber. again you must hold the weapon as if you own the sucker and not as if you are afraid you will break the dam thing. Your biggest enemies is a soft hold and off natural point of aim. Your biggest is natural point of aim. If that is off then you will torque, pogo off target, and then you must hunt the sucker down. About then the counter sniper will dust your noggin for you.
Hold Hard guys and watch the long range ranges. As Gooch stated, you must own the land that the round will fall on. Also remember that 99.999% of all sniper shots are taken at less then 600 meters. If you can ALWAYS hit at that range, given it is an unknown range when you fire, then you are doing very well indeed. Do not confuse the known distance with the unknown distance. Known is easy, unknown will kick your booty.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, July 02, 2001 at 17:41:37 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.204.81)
Undude
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, July 02, 2001 at 19:59:21 (ZULU) (your host address:
64.12.102.41)
Hi all !
I sent my scope to Leupold for warranty service as the illuminated reticle was "acting up" i.e. not all settings worked.
I sent it to them on Saturday and they received it on Tuesday. Leupold reinstalled the illumination tower for reasons unknown to me. Additionally they replaced a spring inside the tower. I believe the spring they replaced was the one that touches the battery from the side.
I received my scope back on Friday. They did forget to put the orginal battery to the box. I had used it only for maybe 15 minutes to make sure the scope was not working properly. So I had to buy a new battery for 5 bucks. All in all this warranty work including battery cost me around 34 USD and it took 6 days alltogether. I am pretty happy with Leupold although I would have liked to hear why the reinstalled the "illumination tower". My total cost is still below what a regular M3 without illumination would have cost me so I am not too mad about the extra costs.
This scope is the older version where illumination can be seen a little bit more horizontally than vertical in the lighted cross. I do not care about this minor difference at all.
BTW Has anybody tried to use the illuminated reticle scope with the front cover closed ? This is actually a bit like using the Aimpoint in rain. What I mean is that you shoot both eyes open. One eye sees the red reticle and the other one sees the target. Both "pictures" are superimposed in your brain. Why would somebody want to use this method ? If you do not want to advertise with your red reticle that you are around or if the objective is too blurry because of dirt or rain that you can not see through it. The method has been explained in "In Review" section that studied Aimpoin XD M/ML red dot sights. Of course this method works only maybe out to 300 meters/yards, but it is better than nothing if you need to shoot.
Hexa
PS My NF's lighted reticle is A LOT better than the Leupold reticle.
If somebody could marry a fully lit reticle with M3 LR for a price below
1000 USD it would take the tactical scope market by storm. I know USO can
deliver a scope just like that but that costs easily 1500 USD which is
beyond my limits.
Hexa <juhola@luukku.com>
USA - Monday, July 02, 2001 at 20:53:02 (ZULU) (your host address:
64.58.22.7)
Mike asked about the hip pouch for M-14 mags. Sorry to disapoint you, Mike, but these are Kydex belt pouches that are designed for "Instructor" belts, etc. They can be made for any belts, if you have the specs.
Bravo and peteR have these for testing. I'm very happy with mine.
The company could probably do a version in a thigh rig if there is enough interest. Anyone need these for "SWAT Fashion Shows"?
Semper Fi,
Wes
P.S. So far there are only the four holders in exhistence...
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Monday, July 02, 2001 at 23:20:07 (ZULU) (your
host address: 198.145.248.58)
Awhile back I wrote about my Rem 700 .308 barrel vertically vibrating when shooting off of a concrete bench. The gun was also torquing to the left a bit. This was off a Harris bipod.
The problem was shooting off a very solid rest (the bipod) off a very solid base (the concrete bench).
My solution was a small piece of scrap carpet under the bipod legs to cushion them from the concrete. Works wonders.
And I've been experimenting with my prone position - now basically directly behind the weapon in a straight line from me to the target. Minimal shift in sight picture after recoil. It can even be done from the bench position.
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Monday, July 02, 2001 at 23:24:40 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.199.162)
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 00:32:11
(ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.195.39)
On a big time plus issue Dan Ross and I have emailed back and forth several times. A good possibilty exists that I will have the proper mount and floor plate on the M40A3. I am working at getting an actual USMC M40A3 test weapon so atleast when I write about it I will have shot the hell out of one not just read about the specs and gave an opinion. I have been shooting the one made to USMC Specs for awhile now and can not say anything but good.
Undude
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 01:08:57 (ZULU) (your host address:
64.12.102.34)
One question. Does anyone know where I can get a M700 clip slotted per USMC specs?
Semper Fi
Steve
Steve Field <Fang33937@cs.com>
Albemarle, NC, USA - Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 01:33:38 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.206.184)
A couple of things before I hit the rack.
Went to camp Butner this weekend to shoot the 1000 yd match. Before I get to the report of that I will address a couple of other things. I saw a couple examples of George Gardner's work there. Two words: polished and professional. Secondly, I met a couple of "confessed lurkers" there too. Nice guys. I hope you guys will come to more of these shoots. Ok to the Match report.
Chapter 1 The Savage/Tasco SS Rig goes to the 1000
What,you say?! Thats right Savage, Tasco and 1000 yards!!
Rifle - Savage 10FP .308
Scope - Tasco SS10x42
Load - Fed brass, CCI std primer, 44.3gr Varget, Sierra 175MK, seated
to 2.815
Here are my scores with 200 being the max score per match. 20 shots per match, 10 points per shot.
Match 1 185-2
Match 2 183-2
Match 3 180-2
These were all shot on Saturday. I only had 70 rounds therefore I could not shoot Sunday. Only 70 rounds because of a couple of things. I had never shot past 600 yards and I had never shot this load. So, get on the line put 35 minutes of elevation on my 200 yard zero, cranked on 1.5 minutes of left wind ( I know you are supposed to hold for wind, I'm a rookie)pulled the trigger. Result, an 8 at 5 o'clock. I'm in the black and happy. I put on another 1/2 minute of elevation and I was there for the rest of the day. Only wind to contend with (which kicked my a**). Wind varied from approximately 2.5 minutes left to 1 minute right. Not too much I guess, but tough on a rookie.
To cut this off, I am happy with the results. This load worked great.
The Savage shot great and the rounds were not "keyholing at the other end
which was a surprise.
Now if we could get enough people to show interest in the HS Precision
stock for the Savage, things would be perfect.
One last note, a couple of guys from Ft. Bragg were there, Huskins and Crawford (Rick, you know these guys?), what a treat to watch those guys keep them in the X-ring.
Semper Fi
Paul
Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
Reston, VA, USA - Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 02:04:35 (ZULU) (your host
address: 12.91.132.179)
Semper Fi dog!!!!
Send you rifle back to GA. George can do it.
Good night all
Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
VA, USA - Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 02:12:14 (ZULU) (your host address:
12.91.132.179)
I've e-mailed George but haven't gotten a reply yet. Off this week for Independence Day?
The rifle I want clip slotted is the Old M40 in the wood stock with the green scope I showed you at the Match. That's all it needs to be correct.
Thst old stick shot pretty good, I was impressed.
Semper Fi
Steve
Steve Field <Fang33937@cs.com>
Albemarle, NC, USA - Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 03:18:14 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.204.198)
Hold Hard guys.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 03:37:43 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.207.54)
Here is a patriotic quote given to me by one of my old professors whose father was killed in action on Iwo Jima. It reads:
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
Don't take this to mean that you have to have been, or be, in the military to be a good American. Just love this country and do what YOU can for it. That's all. And celebrate the Fourth of July. You're an American, it's Your Birthday too.
Semper Fi
2Lt. Stephen B. Field USMC
Steve Field <Fang33937@cs.com>
Albemarle, NC, USA - Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 03:48:32 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.204.198)
-Any one know who services KOWA scopes. I have a TSN-1 that I don't think is quite up to spec. Could be the eyepiece that needs tweaked. Also, I have heard that someone does a complete waterproof job on them. Any help here?
-Is anyone still putting mil-dots into a spotting scope since Premier seems to have discontinued the loopy?
-mid range shooting question: I request opinions/ feedback of this
recent experience....Rick? Gooch? anyone?
I recently shot a 600yd prone any-any (read psuedo F=Class) match
with my "sort of" M40A1. Score was 191-3x, definitely got caught by wind
let offs a couple times - not paying close enough attention. After the
match I realized I shot it with Loopy set a 3.5x. Some were saying that
I should have shot better 'cuz I shouldn't have seen any wobble, and others
were amazed that I did that well. Me, I'm in between on my feelings here.
I was using "left over" ammo from an M1a that had never been shot past
300yds out of that rifle, and barely gave moa groups at 300yds from it.
FWIW I'm master class NRA hipower in service rifle.
Steve - hockyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
South West , PA, USA - Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 12:54:53 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.107.135.116)
I cannot prove that I am getting a POI shift off of concrete, but I've got that nagging doubt everytime I am forced to set up on a chunk. What I have been doing is taking my Eagle padded scope cover and sitting the bipod legs in it. This gives me two layers of nylon and closed cell foam between the bipod feet and the concrete. I always have the PSC with me until the rifle is deployed so it isn't a problem slipping it into position. Even with this improvement, the rifle will still track poorly during recoil. Absolutely got to be on the gun properly every time (just like you guys say).
Besides any multiple target scenario that necessitates getting back on line quickly, don't forget that single target engagements are just as important on your follow through. Even when engaging a single target, you are out of touch with the situation until you have your field of view (sight picture) back on line with the intended target. Even with a spotter feeding you info, a lot of things can happen in just 2 or 3 seconds.
Bottom line is that I am a puss when it comes to Mr.Murphy. I try to get a few shots logged into my book off of concrete under different conditions and also practice other bipod problems. When in certain environments it would be STUPID to set your bipod feet on a narrow or slippery surface just so you can use the damned thing. It's a tool! JUST CAUSE YOU GOT IT DON'T MEAN YOU GOTTA TO USE IT! Be sure to log in some shots from your ruck sack or other improvised rests. Your rifle will track differently off of these things but when set up properly will have no loss of accuracy.
A freakin bipod leg slipping off an edge when things are in a high pucker factor guarantees a FUBAR.
I'm dumb and paranoid, so when I get a rare moment to actually shoot my rifle, I try to keep it difficult on myself. I don't want to do something for the first time when the shot has to count, even at a match. Everybody just remember that it's OK to shoot a poor group or miss a target in front of your buddies during practice as long a you're learning something and improving your capabilities.
Little things mater at a distance. Don't let tomorrow be the first time you're forced to deal with them in less than perfect (bipod feet on freshly mowed lawn) conditions.
See. I told ya. 2 cents.
Everybody stay safe,
TC
Terry Cross <kmw308@aol.com>
Forest Hill, LA, USA - Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 13:47:39 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.201.48)
Semper Fi
Steve
Steve Field <Fang33937@cs.com>
Albemarle, NC, USA - Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 14:12:36 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.197.186)
Happy 4th of July!
When the Declaration of Independence was declared, John Adams wrote this historic letter to his wife:
"I am apt to believe that this day will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival. It ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires, and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forevermore."
(But for this, I would NOT have thought about touching a beer, but if John Adams says we should...)
Also, note that John said the celebration should include GUNS. So much for the arguments that the founding fathers never meant the 2nd Amendment was for everyone.
Happy 4th Everyone (Now I have to mail this to my British Boss!)
Jefe
Jefe <diabloazul01@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 17:46:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 200.30.103.130)
Have any of you found steel trigger gaurds and foorplates for the M70 stealths? The tigger guard is made of cast pot metal and seems very fragile. I cringe each time I torque the action screws. Looking to upgrade, but can't find anyone that makes steel replacements. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Chris
"FatBoy"
Chris <hepkat0013@aol.com>
Mid-Tenn, USA - Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 18:30:04 (ZULU) (your host
address: 205.188.192.184)
Steve - On the 3.5, don’t see where it would make much of a difference myself. You already ignore wobble, so shooting high mag is not a problem and you shoot irons so not seeing the target with perfect clarity is not a problem. You shoot high master with irons. Your brain went into shoot mode and you shot. Sometimes you will shoot REAL good and then sometimes you will merely shot good. You happened to only shoot good that day. :-)
Terry - Agree with you on shooting data, but would not shoot off of concrete with bipods unless unavoidable. Carry the small bench rest stand made by, great name has slipped my brain housing group, but the stand is not attached to the rifle and it rest on the concrete and weapon rests on a the pad. Weapon no hop and stay on target. Also, excellent point you made on recovery to your target. Misses do happen just like s**t, and you need to be back on target sa fast as possible. Always assume a miss, or you will have HSBOSs heading your way. Of course that is better then SSBOHs.
Jefe - They have effectively removed “illuminations, and bonfires” as well as “pomp” and any form of loud behavior. What makes you think the left leaners are going to not go for the whole ball of wax?
Oh well enough for now, will end this and do other fun things.
Hold Hard Guys.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 19:19:34 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.201.52)
As many things as I dislike about my home state of Vermont, its the only State I know of whose Supreme Court ruled that requiring a concealed carry permit is unconstitutional because it violates the 2nd Amendment. They havent taken it all yet!
And besides, I remember when the power went out at Fort Bragg, at least in divisions area that there were enuf fireworks to make Mr. Adams very proud! All American, All the Way!!
Meanwhile, life in South America is pretty damn good! The Brits in the company all do their tour and go home till the next one. All the Americans stay here and live while the Colombians try to flee the country. It sure helps with rental prices!
Gotta luv a country where the murder rate goes down 15% when they change closing time at the bars from 2am to 1am!(although it kind of pisses you off at closing time).
Sorry for the off topic post, but I am having entirely too much fun!
Jefe
PS: You need some Sello Rojo or something, just drop me a note and
I will get to it when I can.
Jefe <diabloazul01@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, July 03, 2001 at 21:28:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 200.30.103.130)
Thanks for the input.
steve - hockyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
South West, PA, USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 03:49:23 (ZULU) (your
host address: 151.201.137.27)
At the last local gun show I attended I was looking over the wares at one of the tables when another individual asked the guy behind the table if he had one of the VersaPod adapters for the M1A. It replaces the plug and allows you to attach the bipod to the gas system.
The conversation ran along the lines of any bipod attached to the gas system of an M1A, including the original military bipod, will cause the mating spline on the barrel at the gas system to wear out faster and affect accuracy. The point was if you wanted to mount a bipod to a M1A, mount it to the stock.
What is anyone elses thoughts on the matter?
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 04:29:26 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.41.40.76)
Have any of you Hogs seen the "Shoot-Rite" palm computer for snipers? I visited thier web site and it looks interesting. I imagine it would really come in handy for those .50BMG shots past 1,500 yards.
I'm very conservative about equipment changes. Anything that takes batteries and can be an emitter is suspect in my book. However I must also be ready to embrace innovation when it is for the better.
So??? What's the skinny on this thing?
Undude....looks like a good subject for your next opus.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 10:49:24
(ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.205.68)
Happy July 4th to all.
Lets not forget the significance of today, because if we do there
may not be too many more to celebrate.
Take care
Titan <hatherly1@home.com>
USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 12:07:38 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.4.252.150)
EMC(SS/DSV) Larry J. Porter, USN, Ret. <mskporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at
13:46:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.167.138.15)
Bad work/any smith. You have 2 basic paths here. If business was done over state lines, may be able to go on mail fraud. Postal inspectors take this stuff very seriously. The thought of federal legal problems should get people to sit up & take notice.
The other method is local court system. If you & they are local look at small claims court. You will have to get "expert" tesitmony/documentation that the work is bad/part ruined. Remington service center should be able to give you a letter stating that. If out of state send paperwork to better business bureau and/or local district attorney see about state charges. A written evaluation by Remington or someone would also help out with postal inspectors.
There's 2 major ways to identify good smiths: quality or work and how they correct problems. Try as you will, every once in a while something goes out the door that shouldn't. A good buddy had an original Armand Swensen 1911 that got out the door with a 1 7/8 lb trigger. I went nuts trying to figure out how that trigger could be that light without the hammer following. Went to the point of calling the man and his reply amounted to "Oh S@#t, send it back NOW!"
All else fails there's always Gun Parts Inc. for a new bolt.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
VA, USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 14:20:52 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.21.148.253)
Byron - You mess with the gas system of that weapon and it will shoot two things - Jack and s**t. That lash up will change vibration and POI radically and unpredictably. That is why there is grease under(or supposed to be) the forestock matting collar and the gas collar. This minimizes the rub and the vibration changes as the rub changes.
Now begging the all important question - Why do you change out a perfectly good extractor made by Remington to a SAKO. The Remington extractors we originally had did not start to wear until over 50,000 rounds were put on the bolts. That is not a misprint guys. We also can change an extrctor on the range with a jewlers screw driver and our thumb when they finally do wear out. I just don't see you guys putting on the 8000 rounds a your guns we do on our student guns. Just my 2 cents on this chartge to change the "bad Remy extractor". Makes me wonder if this is not another myth set up by gunsmiths to make more money?
Jefe - That is one thing that I really like about Vermont. Jeffords is one of tose things that I really dislike. :-) (Sorry could not resist!)
Steve - As you know and stated, there are those days when you just do not know what the heck happened. Relax, go into shooter's meditation and then shoot that X. :-)
Hold Hard guys and again, Celebrate safely but celebrate!!!!
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 15:19:11 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.197.37)
Hey how's it going? I saw your post about the bipod for the M1A gas
plug. Any bipod attached to the gas system will cause accuracy problems.
If you want to put a bipod on the M1A attach it to the stock. A swivel
bipod is way better because it helps to keep the pressure at the barrel
band, and stock ferrule consistant. The Versa Pod works real good. It swivels
in two different directions. It pans so you can follow a mover(some), and
swivels so you don't "cant" the rifle if it is on an uneven surface. It
has a quick release feature that allows you to remove the pod from the
mounting stud. It is a copy of the Parker Hale bipod.
I have two M1A's and over the last several years I have tried different
configurations with them. Currently they both have Kreiger barrels, and
McMillan stocks. One is setup like the early version M25 with a Mk4 scope,
and BPT mount. It is very accurate, but at about 17Lbs it is just a bit
too heavy. I enjoy shooting the M1A, but for the same bucks you can buy
a real good custom bolt gun from Nor Cal, or some of the other good rifle
builders. The bolt gun is gonna require less maintenance, and will be more
consistant over the long run. And it won't weigh 17 Lbs!
Hope this helps you decide what you want to do.
Best Regards, and Have a Great Fourth of July!!
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
Outback, Ky, USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 15:28:14 (ZULU) (your
host address: 64.12.104.34)
None taken. In fact, that ruling and the fact its got some great countryside are the only good things about the state left.
Shouldve known that any place that spawned a soldier like Steve Bnascni would go to hell in a handbasket!
Take Care,
Jefe
jefe <diabloazul01@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 16:13:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 200.30.103.130)
HAVE AN AWESOME AND SAFE JULY 4TH!!! HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!!!
Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
God's Country, USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 16:59:24 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.207.51.186)
Changed my Rem extractor for a Sako unit after blowing a primer and causing the extractor to become unreliable. The Sako unit thus far seems reliable, and field repair would not be a major production.
When changing I would have preffered an M16 type unit as used by Savage, for a cleaner installation ,but lost the address of the folks that do that conversion.
Also should be noted That I have a Rem700 from the mid 60's that has had the original barrel replaced after the rifling began to look like an HK, still has the original extractor in it, and I know I got that 8000 round mark beat all to hell on this rifle.
Best to all, be safe on this 4th.
Mike in Texas <mcdonald@hcn.hcnews.com>
Granbury, Texas, - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 18:06:15 (ZULU) (your
host address: 208.232.237.81)
I just couldn't stay quiet on this one... Remington extractors.
My first Rem 40-XB/R 308 was bought NEW in 1966... took it to the
Carlos match in '99 (and shot you twice HA ;) and it got a new extractor
for it, in '96.
I have a bunch more of Rems that are real long in the tooth (circa
late 60's), and they are fine.
The old design is called the rivet or staked extractor, and you could wear one out if you shoot a LOT! (about 20,000+ rounds).
About 20 years ago, Rem re-designed the extractor, and the new one is called the snap-in extractor (very easy to change!! What Rick said... do it your self!)... and you would have to belt feed one for a year to wear it out.
The new design also has a bigger tooth, for more rim grab.
At the same time, they redesigned the replacement staked extractors to have the new style tooth, so once you replace an one style extractor... you will never have to do it again.
I built a M24 clone in 308 last year, and am about to finish another one in 300WM in a few weeks... each one has about $3000 in parts, but not a dime spent on the extractor.
If you are changing the extractor on a M700 bolt, you are just throwing
money away... you will NEVER WEAR OUT A CURRENT Rem EXTRACTOR OUT!!!
... and they do not fail.
"X" <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 18:18:46 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.80)
God Bless America!
Obl. sniper-related topic: I have set myself up for a shot at next year's "most-improved shooter" award at the FCSA championship match. If there is such a thing. I did poorly, due to a number of factors, but I did finish, and I learned a lot.
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 18:20:33 (ZULU) (your host address:
64.123.15.245)
Two hours and two gallons of sweat later we now have the target area cleared and mowed with the bank behind the steel mowed "high & tight". We like to account for every round fired with a clang or a splash of dirt. Now we'll be able to see what's happening and adjust our settings.
It's starting to shape up nicely. The farmer was cultivating his cabbage so no shooting this morning. Maybe later this afternoon.
I got two yards of red flag nylon at the fabric store yesterday and will create a range flag to fly when the range is hot. (expensive stuff)
Gooch & Rick,
I did a safety fan for the range even before I asked permission.
We've got a full 2,000 meters of vacant rising gound behind the 12 foot
high bank against which our targets are set. The next property down range
is the County Landfill. We're good to go. It'll be a while before we start
shooing night fire under parachute-flares. ;-)
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 20:25:51
(ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.198.181)
Glad to see your post, now get your ass back in here.
Got to say this, the Rem snap in extractor may never 'wear out ', but they do fail. Mine did and it only takes one to make the point. Failed right in the middle of a two day class to boot. Embarassing.
Mike in Texas <mcdonald@hcn.hcnews.com>
Granbury, Texas, USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 21:09:03 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.198.13)
I am going to respectfully ask you to resolve this rifle dilemna somewhere other than the Duty Roster. The related posts will be removed and filed elsewhere.
If there is a problem act as adults and resolve it following correct adult behavior and, or, customer service practices.
If this cannot be done, the S/C Council can deal with it other ways
Do I make myself ABSO-F&*#KINGLUTELY CLEAR?
Oh and by the way
HAPPY 4TH OF JULY TO THE USA, AND All OF ITS CITIZENS!
Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
Big City, By-Gawd, USA - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at 21:16:53 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.197.24)
First of all, happy 4th from across the big pond. Now if you all would start congratulating me with the 5th of may that would be cool. Oh.... I forget ..... it was you who liberated us, so I guess I should thank you on that day.... ;-)
Question: can anyone give me a good explanation (or point me to one available online) why BOTH uphill AND downhill shooting require the same compensation? It's OK to tell preople that it is so, but it's something else (not to say: it sucks) if some smart*ss starts asking you WHY. (If you're reading this, sorry Dimitri).
Thanks for any help you can give.
Stefan
Stefan <sniperhide@run.to>
Someplace, Somewhere, The Netherlands - Wednesday, July 04, 2001 at
21:24:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 213.46.159.37)
Stefan - You are shooting a right angle triangle and the ballistic range for elevation is the short leg whether you are at the top or at the bottom. However never forget that the wind and weather effects is figured on the long leg! Thus you may have an actual range of 600 meters wheich you figure wind drift while the gravity range is only 450 meters. Adds fun to the shooting huh. :-)
Mike - The only extractor failures that I have seen with our weapons have been due to either poor maintenence or overly large round counts. You must have had one of the bad ones that pop up to prove what great extractors they really are. :-)
Jefe - Steve is salt of the earth man! Who else would have a female of uncertain persuasion call my house at 9 at night from Panama as a joke? Wife was not amused! :-(
Hold Hard Guys!
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 01:18:19 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.207.46)
You brought up a point that may be of interest to a few folks here, certainly to me. Could you outline proper maintainence procedure for the Rem700 action and bolt?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
Mike in Texas <mcdonald@hcn.hcnews.com>
USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 01:29:34 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.232.237.60)
Also like to second the request from a few days ago for drawings to machine stripper clip slots in model 700 actions. I'm sure there's some guys who'd do a great job. I just prefer to do my own work. Makes the warranty issue easier to deal with.
A very large thank you to Mr. Gooch & Mr. Rick on the bipod prone
position. Works MUCH better than the instructions given by an alleged authority
with another agency. Have found out why they went to more vertical pistol
grips though. I need to work on this more.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
deprivation, USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 02:33:17 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.21.108.106)
I agree. Customer service is half of what you pay for. If a company is not going to comply with their own guarantee, they won't be in business for long. A company is only as good as its word.
Just one thing though, man your last post was hot, and you really made your point, but with whom? All I'm sayin is that ya should be dealin' with the guy who f'ed up.
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 02:53:22 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.113.85.43)
Id have to agree with you. I feel kinda silly after my stint with Winchester, but it would never had gone this far on the board.
A suggestion for anyone unsatisfied with a product they have received. Review it, or have a friend who knows what's what review it and send said review into the site for consideration. I'm sure Pete or Marius or whomever is reviewing at the time will be able to pick up on any one sided BS in the article and get decent info out for reiview. If your fair in you evaluation and fair in your testing, let the performance do the speaking for you.
Just a thought from a newbie. Hoping today finds you all in good health and high spirits.
Chris
"FatBoy"
Chris <hepkat0013@aol.com>
Heavy Rain' strong Wind, Still out shootin', Mid-Tenn, USA - Thursday,
July 05, 2001 at 02:56:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.102.172)
Same Steve I know! I grew up with him up until about 6th grade when they went south and I ran into him when I was in the 193rd. He visited one year at Christmas and there I was, in a barfight at a ski area at the age of 30 something. The fun never stops around him, but like the guy told his lawyer when asked about how he was getting along with his weightlifting cellmate named bubba; "Ya gotta luv him."
Serious note though, (for a change), what are your thoughts on this:
MTN INF CO with 3 Sniper teams deploys for peacekeeping. One team is tasked for company support forward of the FFU (being the base camp), one is OPCON to the S2 and the last team stands down and pulls some security at the base camp.
What do you think about that? I realize its vague on the scenario.
Jefe <diabloazul01@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 03:25:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 200.30.103.130)
I saw something similer, if not exactly the same, at a gun show recently.
The tubes appeared to be made out of closed cell foam rubber. Very light
and flexible enough you could fold one up and stick it in your back pocket..
But, not being affixed to the scope through any significant means other
than a stretch friction fit, it took very, and I mean very little to push
the tube off-axis to where you couldn't see a thing through the scope.
A cable tie would likely be necessary.
MikeL <mlitscher@wi.rr.com>
Brew City, WI, USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 07:41:43 (ZULU) (your
host address: 65.25.160.112)
I know this subject has been discussed "ad nauseum" but here goes.
I've got my 175's @ 2,675 fps and I'm using the .30-06 dial. (I'm told it's supposed to match.)
At ranges out to 600 yards I'm using on the average two minutes less than the dial range marks. I know I can just log the data and shoot the actual come-ups but if that's the case some of the utility of the dial is lost.
I'm going to re-chrono my loads to be sure they aren't faster than originally thought. However I'm only loading 43.3 grains of Varget now.
Thoughts?
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 12:24:36
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
On a bolt problem for a Remington 700. If you need a new bolt the weapon will probably have to go back to Remington. They quit selling bolts years ago because of liability. Future never change the extractor type unless no choice like in a 338 Lapua conversion. I would say the best thing to do is have someone like George Gardner take a look at it. Neither you or the smith will ever agree at this point to whats fair.
On Bipods, I also use an Eagle Scope protector when all else fails to shoot off the concrete. If I dont get a good position that way I go to the pack. Next is just edge the feet into the soil. Any hard surface will cause the bounce. You can play with loading force onto the legs but then you have to be equal in the force applied to get it consistent and that is a nightmare to learn. While on this subject if you have a Parker Hale type pod you will probably get better groups by learning to load the bipod. This is because it is one wobble after another with that thing. The force will take out some of it. Now dont try and break it just a few pounds to sette it.
On a computor article. I think that thing is being pushed by Trigger 50 and he would probably do his own thing on who writes what. I dont think they will beat down my door for an evaluation. I still believe in dope it dial it dump it. Dope to me is Temp, range, wind, ammo, elevation. There are certain calculations I dont use that will be on the comp. that I have never used and that would probably leave me out of the loop. BUt hell I am with Rick and Gooch on this so not bad company.LOL
Undude back t his hole
PS nice to see you you old Pablito you!
MikeMiller <tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 13:53:35 (ZULU) (your host
address: 148.165.85.148)
On the M3 BDC...I'm just now working up loads to match my cam and am learning about the scope, as well.
Bravo probably has as much experience with this, on M25's, as any of us. Since I'm new to the M3 I really can't comment.
S
< it would be nice if you would write up your procedure for "tensioning" the A.R.M.S mount and setting up your scope on the M25 for posterity. HINT, HINT!
Undude has it right, IMHO. Dope it, Dial it, Dump it! You're wasting valuable time doing anything else. Works for me...
By the way, glad to see the Marines let you loose. You're lucky. They have the habit of hanging onto "a few good men"...;-)
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 14:11:19 (ZULU) (your
host address: 198.145.248.5)
Thanks,
chase <varmintpro@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 14:45:14 (ZULU) (your host address:
167.234.102.23)
I think the problem is more with the smith who puts them in. It seems that the older rivit ones are kindof tricky for some people and they do tend to screw them up. I have never touched the one on my 308/260 and its on its 3rd barrel.
Reputable Smiths..
Most any quality rifle builder will take care of a problem ASAP
since their work is their reputation. We all need to understand that even
the best smiths will have a bad barrel or have something slip by. The problem
arises when they don't correct it or offer to make it right but those people
won't stay in business long.
Rick or any other long range genious..
Why in the hell do I go out one day and shoot a course nearly a
full MOA low from 600yds on out when I have shot it just fine for several
weeks with the same dials under nearly identical conditions!!!The ammo
I use is NOT temp sensitive and is out of the same batch. I have had this
happen before and it drives me NUTS and gives me NIGHTMARES!!!
The humidity and dew points weren't as high as when I shot it several
days earlier so thats out. The wind was out of the exact same direction
at nearly the same speed. The only real difference was time of day 0700am
to 1630 for the previous time.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 16:21:10 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.3)
Pat seem to remember something about chasing the light. Lights up,
sights down, Lights down sights up or something like that but most of my
shooting is only to 350 yds these days so it dosen't really matter in my
case. Maybe the guru's could explain light.
TonyY <ayackowski@pershing.com>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 17:09:26 (ZULU) (your
host address: 32.97.88.102)
Only ever saw one fail. It was during a High Power Silhouette Championship. The guy stepped off the line long enough to "borrow" a bolt from another shooter. (Kinda makes your skin crawl don't it?) He went on to finish and placed high enough to win in his class.
Ha...borrow a bolt....go figure.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 18:16:14
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
shots over - fire-mission accomplished
standing down till next engagement
Out
Fire-control officer <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
RSA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 19:17:14 (ZULU) (your host address:
155.239.180.181)
Call George Gardner 816-221-1844
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
SJ, CA, USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 20:38:19 (ZULU) (your host
address: 63.192.208.6)
Posted some Book/Movie reviews from Scott - take a look.
Marius
Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
RSA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 21:21:03 (ZULU) (your host address:
155.239.180.215)
When the light is bright, your eye can more easily resolve the edge of the black, so you tend to hold on the true edge (lower), rather than further into the black when the edge is indistinct.
HTH
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
USA - Thursday, July 05, 2001 at 23:25:05 (ZULU) (your host address:
64.123.15.245)
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 00:39:20 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.50.54.201)
Just back from the range. Thursday evening has become our "snper" get together for a few of us. Tonight we worked from the 200 yard line. I decided to take my newly broken in .223 Stealth and a handload that has show some promise at 100 yards.
Conditions: Wind 10-12 mph variable, temperature 70 degrees, clear sky. Shooting was done prone.
My load was a .223 Winchester case(match prep'd), 24.6 gr. IMR-4895, Federal 205 Match primer, and a Sierra 69 gr. Match King.
In spite of the wind all groups were sub-moa. Several were less than .5 MOA. Correct elevation for this load was +1 MOA from my 100 yard zero. Need to chronograph it this next week, but it looks like we have a WINNER! Damn, that Stealth shoots!
All for now. I hear my bed calling...
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Bldogett, OR, USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 04:47:08 (ZULU) (your
host address: 198.145.248.1)
Does anyone have any information about any of the hand held wind/conditions meters. Since I am looking at recording a little more data regarding the range conditions when gathering load information I figured I might buy one. The unit that seems the most promising right now is the Kestrel 4000, running about $300.
Here is some basic info:
The Kestrel® 4000 Pocket Weather™ Tracker is the next generation of weather monitoring. You can now measure EVERY major environmental condition, easily and accurately, right in the palm of your hand. The chart mode allows users to recall and graph up to 250 measurements, along with the date and time of storage. Barometric Pressure, Altitude, Density Altitude, Temperature, Humidity, Wind Speed, Wind Chill, Dew Point, Wet Bulb, and Heat Index... all in one pocket sized instrument.
It is about twice the price of their 3000 but has altitude and barometric
pressure and the others don't. Anyone know of another product that will
fit the bill?
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 05:23:41 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.41.42.205)
I suspect that you usually know your shooting elevation, and at most distances them effect of different barometric differences will be very slight.
Spend the difference on a long range rifle course and ammo and go
shoot.
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
Gearing up for New Mexico, USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 05:52:20
(ZULU) (your host address: 63.192.208.6)
M40A1:
Just disassembled cleaned completely and reassembled the new rig.
The action screws were only finger tight. Now they're at 65 in.lb. We'll
see today if that makes a difference.
Oh well off to do some PT...I like it, I love it, I want more of it.........
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 08:27:20
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.102.174)
I use the Brunton "Sherpa" wind/baro/temp meter, (for several things)
and find it to be very accurate. That being said, the real secret is STILL
to go out and shoot lots. If you want to dope the wind and temp, then check
it with the meter, go for it until you're comfortable. Other than being
a learning tool, a meter might become a crutch that would really slow you
down, and the d@#m batteries WILL die at the worst time. Unless you travel
a bunch, the factors other than wind are more seasonal than something you
need to worry about daily.
Flattop <BKFlattop@aol.com>
USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 12:45:21 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.161.197.133)
I always use the MOAs at the bottom of the ring. For quick shooting I painted over the yardage numbers at the top and then scribed in my own yardage numbers over the "Correct" MOA for "MY" pet load, not theirs, and it works great, just a suggestion.
Wind Meters..
I use the simple hand held with the speed and temp. Works great
but as they say don't let it become a crutch. I make the wind call "FIRST"
then I check my call to see how close I am.
The thing that you really need to learn to read is the mirage or
the grass and folage. It will tell you what the wind is doing down range.
If your shooting across canyons or down or across draws the wind down range
can actually be blowing the opposite direction your reading at your position.
Just something else to confuse everyone!!(HA)
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 13:33:26 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.3)
Where can I get an armorers manual for the Steyr SSG series of rifles? In english. Thanks.
Semper Fi
Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
Reston, VA, USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 13:43:35 (ZULU) (your host
address: 216.173.17.78)
I have researched a lot about the windmeters. I thought Kestrel 3000 was a bit overkill but the Kestrel 4000 definately is overkill for shooting. For weather freaks it is a good meter, for shooting it is too complex.
I think Kestrel 1000 or Kestrel 2000 would be enough for most shooters. If you need a little bit more stuff, go and buy a Alti WindWatch. www.sciencecompany.com in Denver sells both Kestrel and Alti WindWatch. The Kestrel 1000 was about $65 inc.s&h.
Kestrel 3000 is there $112.95 inc. S&H
Alti WindWatch is there $119.95 inc. S&H (special, not many
available)
I bought a Alti WindWatch a while ago from Science Company. It meters temperature, barometric pressure (registers always the last 16 hours), wind speed, wind chill, altitude 0-30000 ft. It floats, weighs around two ounces, has a 2 year Warranty and is Swiss made. The same unit is sold also under Silva, Brunton, Windtec and probably other brand names.
Using wind meters: I think the best use of these is to use them to learn wind estimation. First you feel the wind and guess the speed. Then you verify it with the meter. Over time you will learn to estimate the winds pretty well. Long range shooting you will only learn by shooting. Electronics can help a little bit but they can only help, they can not shoot the rifle.
BTW www.sciencecompany.com is the cheapest place in the net for Kestrel
1000/2000/3000 and Alti WindWatch that I have found. In some other places
Alti WindWatch costs around $169-$230 so I think this company has a pretty
good deal on these meters.
Hexa <juhola@luukku.com>
USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 15:18:20 (ZULU) (your host address:
64.58.22.7)
P.S. I just thought I'd cover me arse with the dislaimer above.
Rich S. <RS1441@aol.com>
Bal'mer, MD, USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 16:13:50 (ZULU) (your host
address: 152.163.201.182)
HOOOYAH!
I just returned from my lunch hour at the range next door. (Yes,
I know.)
Tightening the action screws to 65 in.lbs reduced group sizes by half. I just shot .46 MOA. (very pleased)
Average velocity is 2,720 fps with a SD of 9 fps.
Group is 1/2" above the POA.
This might explain why I'm 2 minutes under the M3LR dial settings at 600 yards. Can I get a check on that?
I established the velocity of 2,675 with cases from which I had pulled the bullets. Could the increased neck tension of a once loaded case result in a 45 fps velocity increase?
Back to the loading bench.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 16:52:21
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
Was up a McClellan on 3 July talking to the range officer and the scheduling lady. We are in. All I need is some feedback on dates from ya'll.
This will be an International League of Riflemen OPEN Practical Precision Rifle (PPR) event with military/Police and citizen classifications. ILR is going to be a CMP affiliated organization so entry will require you to be eligible for entry in Civilian Marksmanship Program activities. (You must have no legal restrictions on firearms possesion/ownership and not be a member in any organization that advocates the violent overthrow of the US Government.)
The ranges at Fort Mac are closed 10-12 and 22-25 Nov. Weekends are rough since the reserve forces eat them up and we risk getting bumped on weekends. We can have reporting/registration on a sunday and shoot mon-tues with awards on tuesday evening.
Those of you that are serious about attending give me some ideas on dates and I'll take them into consideration. Any conflicting events anyone knows of?
McClellan in in Anniston, AL, between Birminham and Atlanta on I-20. I'm working on a special rate for hotels.
Next year we will have a series of PPR matches accross the country. Maybe one in Canada.
Those that attend the match this Nov. will recieve a special coin commemorating the first ILR Practical Precision Rifle match and will receive a charter membership to the ILR.
What is a good entry fee for those who are thinking of attending? We will have prizes including a rifle or two. Entry will also require a membership to ILR which looks like $40 for annual and $300 for lifetime.
More info on ILR and the match will be posted on the ILR website (www.riflemen.net) when it is up in a few days (we hope).
If you yahoos have any comments for me please send them to goochkw@riflemen.net.
Here we go!!
Out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 16:56:24 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.214.53.91)
On the M1A bipod question, the ONLY way to go is to bed a stud into the fore-end. Ideally, there should be a steel plate bedded into a channel inletted in the barrel channel, then the stud mounted to that. Even better is to have the stock formed around some steel plates, like McMillan does for their Wichita sling swivels. Not much extra dough, but you've got to order it that way from the start.
Anyone putting on one of those versa-pod spigots in place of the gas cylinder plug needs his head examined.
And to Wes: I'm also interested in reading an article on mounting the ARMS base up to a M1A receiver. When you get it, could you pass it on?
Hope this isn't too goofy for a newby post, I know how you guys hate
those.
Victor <gasgunguy@yahoo.com>
Kalifornicate-ya, USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 17:55:10 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.9.223.237)
I just received 500 pieces of Winchester brass and a box of 500 SMK175s. I have 1000 Federal Match primers. As soon as I can get an 8# can of Varget I will be in business. All smiles!!!!
Speaking of primers, what are some opinions on Fed Match vs. CCI Bench Rest?
Semper Fi
Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
Reston, VA, USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 18:15:45 (ZULU) (your host
address: 216.173.17.78)
-chase
chase <varmintpro@hotmail.com>
boise, ID, USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 20:08:19 (ZULU) (your host
address: 167.234.101.89)
Yikes!
You describe quality scopes and rifles.....I would suspect the mounts
and rings.......
Go Badger and never look back.
FWIW here's my set-up:
Rifle drilled and tapped to #8-32
Badger one piece steel 20 MOA base Torx screwed and loctited in
place
Badger rings torqued to 65 in.lbs to the base
Top ring half attached by Torx screws at 35 in.lbs.
My SWS took a 4' fall to thinly carpeted concrete and never shifted zero.
Good luck officer Thomas.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 20:59:19
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
For example I have four department weapons with Leupolds and three with US Optics. None of which ahve ever changed zero from similar things. The Leupolds will if you beat the hell out of them but not under normal use. Certainly not from the case falling over. The US Optics have never shifted zero no matter how we treated them.
If you are getting what you descripe you ahve big problems and no way you would get a zero! If it moves from a tap on the scope a violent recoil would certainly move it. The problem you describe is usually a broken reticle but not likely to happen to all unless you have animals with rocks working for you.LOL Seriously look to the mounts then the action screws (Torque) and thebbls being truly free floated.
If you need further help get ahold of me via email
MikeMiller <tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Friday, July 06, 2001 at 21:45:31 (ZULU) (your host address:
148.165.85.148)
I have a Loopy M3LR mounted to a Rem 700 on Badger base and rings. Everything is properly torqued and Loctited in place.
While I won't admit to being as clumsy as Kevin (Andy's dad) is (LOL), my gun gets it's share of banging around in normal everyday use, even when in its case. I have yet to loose my zero due to rough handling.
Sounds like you guys went top drawer for equipment - except for the scope mount stuff.
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Saturday, July 07, 2001 at 02:09:12 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.194.212)
Paul, Norm Crawford was 3rd in the Leach Cup 1,000 yard match at Perry in '98, and with the Palma Match he qualified for the '99 US Palma Team that went to South Africa. That's 1,000 yards, iron-sighted, shooting a 155 Sierra Match King.
Traded out two guns I never shot for a Harrington and Richardson 50's-make M1 Garand for the John Garand Match at Perry. CMP delivered a can of 280 rounds, M1 30-06 Ball to the door for $60 bucks, plus 15 for shipping. They've got 5,000 rounds of GI .22 Standard Velocity Match for $75 again.
One of my guys got a George Gardner 300 Win Mag for Alaskan bears. Nice rifle!
Darren Dong / Mike Miller, when we were circling over San Francisco Bay to jump into the Giants/A's game at Pac Bell Stadium I saw a 600 yard KD range about 2-3 miles west of the north end of the Golden Gate Bridge. Is that still active (I think it used to be Fort Mason or Fort Funston)?
Anyone else heading to Perry?
Back to the garage to load.
Sinister Dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
USA - Saturday, July 07, 2001 at 04:32:56 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.88.228.100)
That is the first that I heard of this. I know there is a 200 yard range up North in Santa Rosa. East of us is Chabot with a 100 and 200 yard range. We have several ranges down South and they are either 100 or 200 or just 100. East of us is Sacramento, that goes out to 1000 yards. I think I will look into this and get back to you on this.
Darren...
Semper Fi
Darren <ddong@usmc.net>
San Francisco, CA, USA - Saturday, July 07, 2001 at 04:51:57 (ZULU)
(your host address: 64.24.38.136)
Next week a number of us will be off in New Mexico while James and Mike try to teach us to shoot better! It should be a pretty interesting crowd with a number of nice rifles. Rumor has it that George (G&A Precision) might even show........
Bravo, we will miss your ever ready opinions and Bravo Brew! Hang in there!
Michael
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
SJ, CA, USA - Sunday, July 08, 2001 at 06:07:56 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.192.208.6)
Yep we've been off shootin'.
Andy and I shot in a High Power Match yesterday.
I took My SMLE No. 4, Mk2.. I shot a 398 with the old warhorse.
My Garand is in the shop getting a new barrel and what not.
Next summer I'm going to go to Camp Perry and attend the school there and shoot the National Matches. I've never been there but have always wanted to go.
Now there's a spot for a Rendezvous!
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Sunday, July 08, 2001 at 11:06:32
(ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.195.59)
I can not speak of the Chandler rifles, but I have extensive experience with Armament Technology rifles and I am throughly impressed with the quality and accuracy. Andy knows how to build rifles and you can't go wrong. On the Chandler side of the house I have heard good things about their rifles. I will be attending his Blackwater Lodge course in November so I can give you some more feedback then! Good luck. I recommend you contact Andy and give him a shout.
Jeff
JC Wilson <blackhawk@mb.sympatico.ca>
Canada - Sunday, July 08, 2001 at 14:03:29 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.200.254.110)
Good for you for deciding to shoot at Perry! Bring your son along as well.
Summer 1999 was my first-ever trip to the National Matches, something I'd read about every year since I was an NRA Junior Shooter at 12 years old. Every September when I got the "National Matches Results" edition of the American Rifleman, I'd always wondered what it would be like.
My first competition day at the Nationals I was standing on the 200 yard line, and was wondering in my head...I was shooting with around 1250 of the best service rifle shooters in the United States.
"I'm shooting as a soldier in the US Army.
I'm shooting at the National Matches at Camp Perry...
I'm shooting in the President's Hundred...
I have no idea where those first five rounds went."
The Nationals schedule is pretty varied -- if you don't have a lot of vacation time, you can shoot just the President's Hundred and the Leg, or if you can just spare a weekend you can shoot the Garand Match on Saturday (everyone brings an "Arms Room" grade M1, Carbine, Springfield, Johnson, or M1917, or they'll issue you an M1 on the line. Everyone shoots issue Ball at 200 yards: 5 rounds to zero, and 10 rounds for record, prone; 10 rounds sitting rapid; and 10 rounds standing). If CMP issued you the M1, and you don't have one, this year they're giving you the option of buying that rifle, right there!
If you've never shot standing and sitting, and you just have a scoped rifle you can shoot the three days of "Canadian Cup" Long Range competition at 800, 900, and 1,000 yards (the only restriction is the third and last day is .308 caliber iron-sights only in the Palma Match).
See you there!
Sinister Dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Sunday, July 08, 2001 at 14:21:47 (ZULU) (your
host address: 24.88.228.100)
Dustin and Jeff.
I have the first experimental 6.5 X .284 that Iron Brigade Armory built. They since have three more in process. I am more than pleased with the rifle. It is a functional work of art. Mine consistently does 1.5" at 600 yards with selected handloads, holds zero, and is a joy to shoot.
As for Armament Tech rifles...I have no experience with them. Note, there are a number of makers out there that build fine rifles. Rice, Gardner, and others have a super reputation. No matter who you decide upon, go with a "known quantity", and don't "cheap charlie" it. You'll be much better off in the long run.
The downside is that you'll wait about a year for the Chandler gun. I can't vouch for the other shops. If you want a real USMC spec gun this is the ONLY way to get one. Spendy, but worth every penny!
Semper Fi,
Wes Howe
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Bldogett, OR, USA - Sunday, July 08, 2001 at 15:46:05 (ZULU) (your
host address: 198.145.248.36)
I will be dragging a couple of them out to NM on Thursday.
Just like Wes said, buy from a quality maker, and you will be happy.
Then shoot the piss out of it!
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
SJ, CA, USA - Sunday, July 08, 2001 at 16:44:38 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.192.208.6)
I think you are embarking on a program to take good shooting rifles and convert them to noise-makers. Yes, there are chamber inserts out there. They add about 1/2 inch of freebore, in a game where shooters try to put the bullets into or very near the lands to minimize jump.
I'd be surprised if your accuracy was up to your expectations.
My $.02
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
USA - Monday, July 09, 2001 at 02:22:20 (ZULU) (your host address:
64.123.15.245)
Rifle #1, Remington 700 Short Action, McMillan McHale Stock, HS Precision stainless triggerguard, detachable 3 round mag. Obermeyer 1-10 twist 5R stainless barrel, 26'' length .975 at muzzle. Tuned Remington trigger. Finished in black KG teflon.
Rifle #2, Dakota 76, Solid bottom single shot, OD/Black McMillan
McHale stock. Cooper Precision/Mike Rock 1-10 stainless 5R barrel 26"
.875 at muzzle. Finished in black KG teflon.
Both rifles were broken in by firing 10 singles and then 3 shot groups for the next 30. Both barrels seemed to foud veary little if not at all. I did experience some pressure problems with factory Winchester 180 gr loads, in rifle #1 only. This was probably due to the Tight .298 Obermeyer Bore. No problems at all with any other loads. Here is the Scoop:
Win 180 gr Factory PP SP, Avg Vel Rifle#1 3080 Rifle#2 3062
Win 150 gr Factory Bal tip Avg Vel Rifle#1 3225 Rifle#2 3198
Handload #1 73 gr VV N560, 175MK Avg Vel #1 3168 #2 3130
Handload #2 55 gr Varget, 175 MK Avg Vel #1 3078 #2 3051
Handload #3 57 gr Varget, 168 MK Avg Vel #1 3123 #2 3104
Accuracy was superb with the reloads, both rifles shot like lasers .250", 3 shot groups were the normal with a couple groups in the .190" range. The worst was .480
The Factory 180 grain loads averaged about 3/4 Moa with the 150 Balistic tip factory loads this was knocked down to a 1/2 Moa average.
In all I believe the 300 WSM to be far superior to the 300 win mag in accuracy and pulling on its coattails in the horsepower department. And best of all in a Short Action!! Any of you that have been thinking of doing a rifle in this caliber or converting a short action. Thumbs up Here.
Take Care
George Out
George Gardner, G.A. Precision <A10XRifle@aol.com>
Kansas City, MO, USA - Monday, July 09, 2001 at 05:48:12 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.248.155.66)
Jan Thomas
I'm pretty rough on my gear and haven't experienced the POI shifting you describe. I'm not a "duty slotted" anything but a fairly serious varmint and long range shooter. My typical setup is a Leupold scope and Badger Rings on a heavily constructed carry rifle. My 'sniper' rifle seldom rides in it's Pelical case and my 'varmint' rigs never see a case. I generally just pile the rifle into the rear of my pickup and let it 'settle' and ride with the rest of the junk back there. (I don't abuse them but I don't baby them either. I'd guess I'm about a 6 on the "commercial airline baggage handler's" abuse scale.) I've had them take falls out of the truck onto blacktop and rocks, slip sidways off the side of the truck and clatter onto the blacktop and/or ground. I raise and lower them by rope into and out of trees and they suffering an occasional 'whack' against the truck or limb.
I've had hunters shudder and shake thier head after seeing some of the falls and tumbles the rifles and I have taken, they're obviously sure that it'd take several days at the range to get a 'zero' back on the rifle. Most of them are instant converts to the big heavy tactical scopes, bases and rings after seeing the rifle(s) shoot to POA/POI subsequent to these 'killer' falls and whacks.
Your post is the first I've heard in many years concerning a POI shift due to a 'tap' on a quality scope. I'm not dis-believing you, I'm just a little confused as to how this happens.
Sign me up for your test program, another 'whack' or two isn't going to be noticable on my gear. I could even video the 'whacking' process and shot strings if you wish. Any opportunity to send a few more rounds down range is definately worth while.
Dave "Doc" King
Dave King <David_L_King@Yahoo.Com>
Damascus, MD, USA - Monday, July 09, 2001 at 11:40:24 (ZULU) (your
host address: 131.158.166.157)
Does anybody really take a camera tripod on a stalk?
I've got one all tricked out with the PVC saddle with padding etc.
and it seems pretty bulky. I don't use a drag bag in the stalk but it would
seem necessary if I were to "drag along" a tripod.
Ref: Case Neck Tension
How does a tight case to bullet fit effect velocity? (tighter=faster?)
Ref: Camelback Cleaning
I just bought a "bore brush" for my camelbak drinking tube. What I scrubbed out of that tube was nasty. Store your Camelback systems clean and dry all kinds of stuff will grow in there and it could make you pretty sick.
Ref: Natural Veg. & Ghillie Suits
Are there any tricks to attaching natural vegitation to the Ghillie Suit?
out
Kevin R. Mussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, July 09, 2001 at 12:41:57
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
A question about the work GA Precision did to your 300 RUM. I have a 300WM I want to rebarrel and have the action worked on. How much did it run you to have them do the work for you? I pretty much need what you got minus the bedding job. Thanks.
Rob
Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
USA - Monday, July 09, 2001 at 14:22:40 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.22.212.106)
I am trying to find some private land by 1500 X 1000 for stalking excercise North of San Francisco or East of San Francisco. I want it far away from prying eyes. Any ideas and suggestion would be appreciated.
I am trying to put together a 2 day stalk class with Mike Miller.
Any questions, toss them my way. Thanks in advance
Darren...
Semper Fi
Darren <ddong@usmc.net>
San Francisco, CA, USA - Monday, July 09, 2001 at 14:26:07 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.211.20.29)
Byron had asked me to post the results of my Winchester M70 .223 Stealth testing. Rifle is box stock, .223, 1/9" twist/26" barrel.
Load:
Winchester cases(new/match prep'd)
Federal 205 Match primer
24.6 gr. IMR-4895
Sierra 69 gr. Match King
Velocity: 2,949 FPS
This was a real surprise,as the Sierra Manual only lists 2,700 FPA from a 20" barrel. This should drop about 16 MOA at 600 yards. I'll test and let you know the results.
One prone 200 yard group was an amazing 5/8" for five rounds. All others were .5 MOA. I LIKE THIS RIFLE!
Semper Fi,
Wes
Not a mousegun shooter, but they are fun!
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Monday, July 09, 2001 at 15:00:43 (ZULU) (your
host address: 198.145.248.94)
Jerry
Jerry Rice <nor-cal@worldnet.att.net>
American Canyon, CA, USA - Monday, July 09, 2001 at 15:11:46 (ZULU)
(your host address: 12.81.71.55)
Since your not a mouse gun shooter and it will only do 1/2 moa at 200 I'll tell you what; I will take it off you hands and even pay the shipping!
In all seriousness sounds like you have a real keeper and don't change a thing. As soon as I can throw some together and get to a range I will let you know what they do from a 700P, in the interest of inquiring minds.
Thanks Again,
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Monday, July 09, 2001 at 15:13:00 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.41.73.254)
Re: 300WSM, "there are not any good short actions with the proper
bolt face". What is wrong with the Win M70 Classic SA that was pretty much
designed for the WSM? I'm fully aware of the M700's long career with the
military (and LE) but c'mon!
Mr. A ;-) <asimon@gj.net>
Not in the land of Stren, Big Red W, USA - Monday, July 09, 2001 at
15:57:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.169.65.173)
Anyone else hear or have any more news on this?
The July 2001 issue of the Marine Corps Gazette reports that the USMC Snipers are testing a 6.5mm. 142gn Sierra in a WSM case @3186 fps. Rifle platforms are Armalite AR T-10 and Knights SR-25 w/24-26" bbls, also