What Charles said. If your sight is canted, you will be off the "X" but your POI will be consistent. Get the sight back where it belongs if that is the problem.
I'm assuming you're dealing with a rack grade, not match grade, rifle. In that case, 3-4 MOA is pretty normal using mil-spec ammo.
I've done only three things to my Colt R6551 and I'm satisfied with the results. Remember, this is a field gun, not a match gun.
1 - Find an ammo your gun likes and stick with it. If you're constantly switching and mixing types you won't get any kind of consistency. I use either IMI M193 or Win Q3131A (55gr FMJ). They are actually the same round, made in the same Israeli plant.
2 - If you have the stock Colt trigger, you're breaking at around 8-9 pounds. I switched to the Colt single stage "match" trigger which breaks at 4.5 pounds. It helps.
3 - I swapped out the stock sights for a Bushmaster hooded rear sight kit (.040 aperture) and thinner (.051) front post. Gave a much cleaner sight picture and brought in the groupings.
I use a 12" round Shoot-N-C target and can keep everything in it out to 300 yards with the irons. Not Palma quality but good enough to stop two legged varmints.
I just ordered some different match grade ammo to see what differences I will get out of it. I'm just getting into the service rifle hipower shooting thing and this gun will have to do until I can pop for a dedicated match upper or complete gun.
I've also got the gun zeroed for 50 yards/220 meters. This apparently allows for a flatter trajectory within that range. It's called the "Santose Method" (after LtC Santose/USMC) and can be found on ar15.com. Requires resetting the rear sight to bottom out at 8/3-3 clicks.
Damn, my fingers are tired. :-)
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Friday, June 08, 2001 at 00:06:59 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.192.37)
Mike – Just trying to get some fun going man. Figure we could raise some heck and enjoy the time.
Byron – I think many believe that Tasco is named such because all the really good four letter words were taken.
Ken – You do not want to go with the MP5 series of weapons. Stay with the M4 and can for take-outs. The MP5 can embarrass you as can the 9mm at subsonic. Does ”bounced off his dam knee” bring a chill to your heart?
Well, another range day tomorrow, hope the blasted humidity goes down! Today was a good humbling experience for the guys. Now we have their attention and we can start on the basics. :-)
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Friday, June 08, 2001 at 02:34:55 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.201.46)
If you want a barrel with no reamer marks, you'll have to order a handlapped blank and have it rebarrelled. A factory barrel is what it is, a production barrel, and some are better than others, but they are not known to be the cleanest barrels. I do not know who is making their barrels, but if they said 'factory' in any of their responses, you are pretty much on your own, as you should be. If the barrel is legitimately FUBAR and won't shoot, then you have a case, and they would replace it. Maybe you can run about 1000 rounds of lapped bullets at Mach 2, that should shine her up for ya, eh 'Lito!! ha!
Quality and consistency comes with a price tag, and trust me, that'll run over $800.
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Friday, June 08, 2001 at 03:16:25 (ZULU) (your
host address: 208.34.8.20)
My local gun club range is always available during the week and on
most weekends. Max. distance is 500 yards with target holders @ 100, 200,300,400,&
500. It's located about 100 mi. WSW of St. Louis, MO in southern Gasconade
County. Drop me a note if you are going to be in the area and need directions.
I'll also furnish some liquid refreshments as well as targets.
Doc <docs@fidnet.com>
The humid Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, June 08, 2001 at 11:17:26
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.251.140.163)
Now I have heard some rumblings about someone, I will not name at this point, talking crap about the raffle. The raffle was run, at many of our requests to get some money for the costs of running the site. You ever notice that no advertisers are on the site. Thats not because they dont want to be. They would jump at it if SC let them. To the person who has talked the nonesense, have the brains to see you have done wrong and say you are sorry. We all step on our dicks once in awhile. A man will say he is sorry. If you knew the principals and called them friend like many of us do, you would feel like a shit head. Reach into your soul and pull out some decent feelings.
I have also heard some guys are tired of answering newbees questions.
I have to say sometimes whena questions is asked the guys shows attitude
I react in a negative way, but mostly I get negative feelings from guys
who want to argue because they read something not because they have shot
and learned something. I hope I can answer all the newbee question, when
I have time. A Capt., from Al, told me to think of it this way.
"The newbees of today are us tomorrow, We will all be extinct someday."
Damm hit home and gave me some needed insite. Thanks Capt. I did not name
you because you are a humble man.
Rick, hold hard and talk with you soon.
Mike
MikeMiller <tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Friday, June 08, 2001 at 16:04:44 (ZULU) (your host address:
148.165.85.148)
dave
dave <washuchan@angelfire.com>
Dahlonega, GA, USA - Friday, June 08, 2001 at 17:07:17 (ZULU) (your
host address: 168.30.194.45)
BTDT w/Tabasco Scopes....
Went to Loopy and never looked back.
A bargin ain't a bargin if it won't work when you need it most.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, June 08, 2001 at 19:47:16
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
I reckon since we haven't heard anymore on the Rendevous, it is indeed kapoot. Been pondering the 1000 yard bench rest game but without MEGA bucks, no way to truly complete. Any idees on other shooting games that one could $-wise reasonably get into and hope to compete and learn from around North Carolina (riffle only)? Open to all suggestions now, don't look forward to shooting by myself all year. Competition builds character or so they say!
Well it's the weekend an honey do's are on the list. Got roped into a "wine-tasting" at the park tomorrow. I can see it now, 90 degrees and a bunch of drunk, puking, yuppy wine-o's. Yipppeee:(
The things we agree to, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, USA - Friday, June 08, 2001 at 20:39:17 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.50.55.136)
Many of us are in the same boat. We're looking for trigger time and
opportunities to compete and learn. I find myself spending substantial
sums of money to go to training because I want to learn more and get trigger
time I can't find any other way.
I shoot service rifle once each month on reduced targets just to
get time behind the trigger. I shoot 1,000 yard benchrest with my SWS because
that's the only thing available within a 3 hour drive where you can shoot
that distance.
I even shoot NRA High Power Silhouette (with an overweight rifle)
to get in the trigger time I need to maintain skills. I stay out of the
big matches to stay away from the scales. ;-)
It would be great to have more matches like the Rendezvous where
we could measure ourselves without having to spend $1,000 to get there
and compete. I think that Gooch is working on this very thing as we speak.
With kids going to college my budget won't let me do too much more than
I'm doing now.
How's this for an idea? A Sniper Country Rendezvous. One on the
East coast and one on the West coast. Spring & Fall. No prizes, just
bragging rights. Keep the entry fee low so limited funds could be applied
to travel costs. Imagine a GP-Medium on the range, porta-Johns and nightly
BBQs. A Saturday & Sunday event so time off would be minimized and
over weekend airfares could be exploited. Ground transport could be organized
to further reduce cost. Seek sponsers to support these kinds of activities
and help with the overhead costs.
Oh..oh...wrote too much.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, June 08, 2001 at 21:11:03
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
Haven't laid eyes on you, but have the priviledge of shooting with
'Shoes from time to time......if you're making a comparison based on appearances,
well...............them's gonna be ugly puppies!
Mike in Texas <appspec1@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Friday, June 08, 2001 at 22:07:18 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.232.237.21)
L8er!
Stefan
Damn.... What did I just say? I'm married....
Stefan <sniperhide@run.to>
Someplace, Somewhere, The Netherlands - Friday, June 08, 2001 at 23:51:48
(ZULU) (your host address: 213.46.159.37)
Thanks!
Hank <Hank@vocallect.com>
USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 00:17:04 (ZULU) (your host address:
65.7.134.51)
Undude had it right. We need to bring new members "along". Sometimes it's just a reminder to read the archives first or somesuch.
We all are in the learning process. Some just further along than others. Remember, one of our jobs here is to mentor the younger or less experienced people.
Seems when I joined someone mentioned I should read the archives, as well...;-)
Case in point, is that I listen up when Gooch-san, Rick, or Undude expound on things. A great many of you have become personal friends via e-mail. Enriching my life, becoming a source of information, and sounding board for some of my hair-brained ideas. Believe me it IS appreciated!
Our Elks Range has three Hi-Power shoots each year. We are going
to take two of those and make them more of a Hi-Power Shoot/social gathering.
Our last shoot garnered 21 shooters and the darndest collection of Hi-Power
and Sniper Rifles you've seen in a while. Shooters used it as a match,
but also as a test platform for ideas, etc.
Case in point is the ARNG guys bringing the new night vision stuff.
Looks like it's going to rain tomorrow, so am going to the mountain with my White German Shepherd, Shotzi. She does so enjoy her walks in the woods with dad...
Take care and hold hard.
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 00:20:04 (ZULU) (your
host address: 198.145.249.17)
HDR <hprudisell@aol.com>
Bartlesville, OK, USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 01:05:54 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.193.177)
You have a great idea. I would like to see one Rendezvous at Whittington
Center located at Raton, New Mexico. They have beautiful
facilities, with housing on premises. The housing is pretty spartan,
but they do have kichtens. They also have travel trailer hookups, and camp
grounds for those that really want to rough it.
HDR
HDR <hprudisell@aol.com>
Bartlesville, OK, USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 01:27:28 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.193.177)
We are all newbies at one time or another, at one instance to the
next. Example: Mike, you know about as much about how to make barrels as
I do policing. Not a knock, just the truth. I am the newbie when it comes
to cams and ranging with mils, and as soon as I get my mil-dot paid for
and thrown on the .300 win mag, I guarantee I will ask as many stupid questions
as I can, whether they were discussed at length beforehand or not! Do you
guys know how I rangefind now? I was blessed with better than perfect eyesight
and a dad who went thru a sniper school, and he taught me how to scan from
50 yds to as far as you can see. So when I see something in the scope,
I shoot with both eyes open, I scan with the left eye to determine range
and adjust from there. What has enhanced my range finding is the laser
rangefinder. Now I am consistently within 10 yds at 600 yds, no shit! That
is fine, that is great, helps ya out a lot when shooting unarmed mammals
and finding fenceposts, it's the bastards that shoot back that make you
wanna depend on something more accurate, which is where youse guys chime
in, but I will maintain that if there is a rendezvous I'd make a hell of
a spotter. I can probably get away with the repeat questions since I've
badgered ya for the past 3 years, but it's the same for the newbies. We
gotta learn 'em.
There are legit newbie questions and there are some not worth answering,
except maybe to promote the archive site. If they deal with the field of
accurate rifles, then answer them, at least e-mail them some info if you
come across them. I try to as much as I can, and I miss a lot of 'em. Youse
guys know when the line is crossed.
Just don't get hasty.
later
JR
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 04:17:43 (ZULU) (your
host address: 208.34.8.20)
Chad
Chad <rem700_308win@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 04:36:39 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.52.189.1)
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
IL, USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 04:44:10 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.4.253.164)
If you think you'd like to attend a Sniper Country Rendezvous e-mail with your name, city and state. Add any ideas you've got.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 08:33:25
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.102.172)
You are really onto something here. A couple years ago the idea of some postal matches and local matches came up and were bounced around by a few folks.
If Mistah Gooch can get his facility operational, and some other folks are willing to add "sweat equity" and time for the cause, it may be viable. We have a large enough geographic spread of regulars that it COULD happen.
I was involved with doing this with AATFA (American Airgun Field
Target Association) in Nov of '87 and the grassroots/local shooting match
idea can work. But the birthing and early post partum can be a bitch.
Stefan,
You know the truth and admit it. Yep lineage can be traced back
to sabo-land.
Un-Dude,
Spotter confirms center hit on the "Capt. remark", He's a sharp
cookie!
Off to my first little Pekiti-Tirsia seminar. BIG-BIG smile!!!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
bIG cITY, bY-gAwD, USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 12:13:34 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.201.188)
As a related item, I went to help out on a sniper training course
this week and observed a few things about some weapons. Every single detachable
mag system for a bolt action sniper rifle that was there has its problems.
The Remington detachables just don't work reliably (probably why they are
not listed by Remington anymore) The H-S worked reliably, but was easy
to fumble and drop while trying to insert under stress. Not enough for
your hand to grasp is my first impresssion, but it is designed to fit flush
with the rifle.
The Accuracy International rifles are real nice (and heavy), but
when your mag is empty, you cannot single load without major difficulties
due to a bolt hold open feature. The AI system that you can put your Remington
action into does not have this bolt hold open feature.
True, reloading and single loading may be a moot point, but then
again, Mr Murphy is always with us.
FWIW- The owner of the HS system said it was installed on a Remington
that had the detatchable mag. It is a major improvement on the stock system.
Having been the victim of the Remington detactable mag system, this would
appear to me to be the best fix out there that doesn't break your bank
account.
Take care-Mike T
Mike T <Riflemike@home.com>
USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 14:50:53 (ZULU) (your host address:
65.11.197.193)
Dave, I'm inclined to agree with Rob01. The Mk4 series scope is an excellent choice. I had a MK4M3 that I sold to 'Lito, and I have a MK4 M1 currently perched atop my Tac-Ord rifle. The VariXIII's are nive, especially if you need the variable power. But if you don't, spend the X-tra bones and go with the Mk4, you'll be happier in da' long run.
Ken M, you are correct, the MOLLE system is a steaming pile!
Later dudes ( and Undudes ) Great to have my new high speed password
Kush out
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
TheBigSuck, Quantico, Va, USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 15:10:26
(ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.198.52)
My entry for the dumb question of the day is:
When Badger and others I presume (instead of assume, because the question will probably make and ass out of me and not you and me) refer to "integral recoil lug" on their scope bases, what is it they are referring to?
I know it, at least I think I do, has nothing to do with the rifles actual barrel recoil lug. So, the only thing I could think of would be to have a portion of the bottom of the base extend into the top of the reciever at the rear of the port opening. But, if this were the case wouldn't there be a problem with the base mounting holes lining up with the tapped receiver holes or, are they elongated to allow for slight variations in dimensions?
And you know I am going to feel real stupid if you tell me it is just a sales ploy because they are referring to the area where the cross bolt rest against the base.
Eye and hearing protection in place (I won't even wear a blind fold),
Ready on the right...Ready on the left...All ready on the firing line...You
may commence fire at you own pace.
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 15:11:54 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.41.43.30)
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 15:35:26 (ZULU) (your
host address: 208.34.8.20)
would you explain to me what you can re the below? I have one allen head type screw that was in the same packet with the 4 filler screws, and it does not appear to fit the hole mentioned in question 1, so I am perplexed.
question:
1. on the right side of the receiver just aft of the chamber on the trg22 is a hole appearing to be a screw hole, but there is no screw. what is it?
2. on the top of the receiver are 4 holes and when i put the 4 filler screws in them and if i screw them all the way down, they will fall into the receiver, since they go all the way in. i have them only partially screwed in.
using the sako integral scope mount, is it important to have the filler screw holes with the filler screws in them?
3. finally, what tactical sling are you guys using? i have temporarily place a hk sl8-1 tactical sling on it and it works great but is too thin of a sling width wise to properly distribute the weight, so what is everyone else using for a heavy rifle like the trg22?
thanks much!
robert tschiemer
robert s. tschiemer <rtschiemer@aol.com>
little rock, ar, USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 15:43:43 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.199.56)
On the optic, the Leupold 3.5x10LRM3 looks like what I'm going to go with. Maybe a couple years when I rebarrel or buy a newer/better/faster rifle I'll do the MK4. Anyway, had a couple scope related ?s for ya. I'm wondering if I should go with the illuminated reticle or not on the LRM3. What do you guys think? I usually tape a mini chemlite to the bottom of the obj, but I can't find a source for them anymore. I'd like to see a tritium light source to accomplish this too. What do ya'll think about no sunshades being availible for the LRM3? Leupold has a honeycomb "glare screen" that fits on the scopes that don't take shades, but there are other benes to shades. Any other options? Anyone ever made a sun shade out of rubber that would slip over the obj like flip-caps do?
Oh, it's been raining for a week here in GA, and I went out to do some shooting yesterday and about got eatin alive! What do you guys use to keep the critters away?
Thanks again-
Brian
Brian <brianbusch@yahoo.com>
USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 15:54:30 (ZULU) (your host address:
66.56.29.165)
If you can be a little patient the Mark 4 scopes come up for sale pretty often on the Emporium and the price is not to far off of the retail price for the 3.5x10LRM3. The last Mark 4 scope I purchased off of the Emporium was $650 and the one before that was $800 with a set of Mark 4 rings.
Byron, I was also confused about the "integral lug" on the Badger
base until I had one in my hand. You are correct that a portion of the
base extends, or hangs over the rear of the ejection port.
I have never had a problem about everything lining up. Those things
are made well, that is why they are THE base and ring choice of most on
this site.
JR, I read your first post before my morning coffee and I was starting to wonder if you had been drinking Hoppes #9! It is nice to start the day out with a chuckle!!
Back to the house work!! Yech!
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
Wish I was shooting instead of cleaning!, USA - Saturday, June 09,
2001 at 16:44:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.192.208.6)
Thanks for the feed back, my head is clearing up and I have a much better picture now!
I guess that means it is time to go out and try and fire up my old '73 LC that has been taking up space in my driveway for the last couple of years. That is if I intend on driving to work on Monday. Oh well, better get started this could take me till tomorrow and I would actually like to go shooting instead.
Thanks Again
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 17:01:43 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.41.43.30)
Ken – If they are free and you do not have a choice then you would be crazy not to take advantage of them. Train with them and find their weaknesses. There are a number of weaknesses and your men need to understand them but more importantly you and the planners REALLY need to understand them so that you can plan around those weaknesses. There is an old saying about know your enemy. Your equipment, in many instances, can easily qualify as your enemy.
JR – WHEW!! You had me thinking you had starting to abuse Hoppes again. :-) Especially since I knew, you knew, that 50-yard over lapping is for observation and 100 yard football field unit of measure is for ranging.
Just another day in paradise guys!
Hold Hard and let them hold 175 grains of American technology!
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Saturday, June 09, 2001 at 19:01:05 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.204.74)
Gooch
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Sunday, June 10, 2001 at 00:15:53 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.214.52.57)
The hole in the receiver near the chamber is the gas escape hole for the situation that a primer is pierced. It is designed to save your eyes. Do not plug the hole with anything hard. Tape it if it distracts you but no screws or metal.
When you use the integral scope mount that covers the holes in receiver, you do not need the cover screws. Actually they can jam your rifle at the wrong time so do not take them to the field.
The extra screw is a mystery to me. I am surprised Sako send you anything extra as they usually deliver the rifles really as-is without any extras.
Hexa
Hexa <juhola@luukku.com>
USA - Sunday, June 10, 2001 at 01:57:31 (ZULU) (your host address:
38.31.119.242)
Most barrelmakers start out the day with a mugful of Hoppe's #9 on the rocks, Sweets chaser. if we're running 17 Rem's that day, it's a double. keeps us from acquiring a lazy eye from looking down all those bores...
ha!
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Sunday, June 10, 2001 at 03:53:39 (ZULU) (your
host address: 208.34.8.20)
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Cliftron Springs, New York, USA - Sunday, June 10, 2001 at 08:31:08
(ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.194)
dave
dave <washuchan@angelfire.com>
Dahl, GA, USA - Sunday, June 10, 2001 at 21:49:51 (ZULU) (your host
address: 168.30.195.39)
Mayhem out!
Mayhem <killare@hotmail.com>
Texas, USA - Sunday, June 10, 2001 at 21:55:11 (ZULU) (your host address:
64.12.104.37)
long time no see.
The PSG-1 is shooting like a breeze, had some problems with ammo
but now with the handloads i'm popping 5 shot groups of 1.8 cm's with the
smallest one at 1.5 sofar at 100 meters.
Both the B&L 10 tactical and the origenal Hensoldt scope are
now sighted in, next saturday Stefan and me are going for the longer ranges
at Harskamp.
Funny thing with the PSG-1, after shooting 20 or so rounds it almost
appears that the barrel is very loose.
Must be a mind trick or something because when the barrel is cold again its back to its firm fit, but it sure fooled Stefan and me.
Do you maybe know if its possible to buy a new PSG-1 barrel and where
one could have it fixed if i do ever wear this one out?
(Preferbly in europe, due to the rising dollar and airplane tickets...)
Hope you had a nice holliday in Danmark, been to Normandy last year, awesome to see Omaha and Utah beach, specially the bunkers near the "climbing" point of the 90 rangers.
Cya around,
Marco.
Marco <fwebel@wanadoo.nl>
NL - Monday, June 11, 2001 at 00:17:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 213.17.47.102)
Where is everybody, either you all have a life, or there has been some serious editing ;)
Question: Who has, and is willing to share, the dimension charts for custom stockmaking. I cannot find mine at all, and need some stock lenth, lenth of pull, comb, camber, etc. numbers.
Any help would be appreciated. Obviously, my failsafe filing message is not so good. ;))
Thanks.
Sean <nailer@mackbc.com>
way up north,, B.C. , Soviet Socialist Republic of Canada - Monday,
June 11, 2001 at 01:20:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.244.197.73)
"message", should have read "system",
(very little multi-tasking abilities here today)
thanks.
Sean <nailer@mackbc.com>
way up north, B.C. , Soviet Socialist Republic of British Columbia
- Monday, June 11, 2001 at 01:23:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.244.197.73)
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
USA - Monday, June 11, 2001 at 12:45:34 (ZULU) (your host address:
65.65.98.177)
Now on to my question for the day. I'd like to know if anyone has
a Chrony chronograph and how do they like it? What model do you have also.
I really need to get a chronograph for myself because my friend doesn't
make it to the range as much as I do and I used to use his. It's tough
to work up loads without it especially for the BDC. Thanks.
Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
USA - Monday, June 11, 2001 at 13:05:02 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.22.212.89)
I have a Chrony that I've been using for years. It works great and
I haven't shot it yet (knock on wood). I'm not sure of the model anymore,
it's not very complicated and no computer hookup or remote display. They're
very simple and compact, mine rides around in the tool box of the truck
and I've only changed the battery once.
Dave "Doc" King <David_L_King@Yahoo.Com>
Damascus, MD, USA - Monday, June 11, 2001 at 14:16:43 (ZULU) (your
host address: 131.158.166.157)
More Stealth testing, yesterday. Took 4 different .223 loads(OK,
I know it's not a MANS caliber)and shot 5 round groups at 100 yards.
Loads used Sierra 69 grainers, Varget, IMR-4895, and N140. The Varget
shows promise and N140 opened up the groups. Seems to burn dirtier than
I'm used to, also.
The real surprise of the day was the IMR-4895 load. The load using the 69 gr Sierra, 24.6 Gr. IMR-4895, Fed Match case, and a Fed 205M primer printed two consecutive five round groups of 5/8" each. Not to mention the load burns clean and seems to burn cooler than the N140 load. May have a winner. More testing and chronographing are in order.
Concerns: I'm using a Luppie Vari-X III 3.5 X 10 with 1/8 minute dot reticle. Dot covers the bull and makes finding a consistent sight picture hard. Believe a trip to Luepold and a new finer reticle will solve the problem and shrink groups. Almost all groups fired have two or three shots touching with the remaining shots opening the group up. Think this will make that problem go away.
As for barrel makers and Hoppe's...I suggest an IV drip. Much more consistent than a sudden mugful of Hoppe's in the morn...;-)
Where is everyone?
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Bldogett, OR, USA - Monday, June 11, 2001 at 15:36:53 (ZULU) (your
host address: 198.145.248.3)
I decided to swap out my 24" upper for the carbine version. I just got it today. It looks "snotty". Now to see if this one will shoot. Armalite seems to be full of good folks. My thoughts are that if you want a "tack driver" get one built using a barrel of known quality. Now I need to decide between a ACOG and a Aimpoint ML.....decisions, decisions.
Is there an echo in here? Seems quiet....too quiet.
Who's the best Garand plumber in the business? I've got one ready for a new tube and a technical inspection. It runs ok but the bore looks like a mile of bad road.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, June 11, 2001 at 15:54:22
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
I was going to use this one for IPSC 3-gun stuff mostly.
That's why I was leaning toward the Aimpoint.
But I've always wanted one of those ACOGS.....
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, June 11, 2001 at 16:43:44
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
Several of my friends have Chrony's and they like them very well. I'm not sure how they compare to other chronographs with respect to accuracy or repeatability. I use an Oehler-35P. I like the hard-copy printout, quick stats, and ability to monitor the display with the chrony setup several yards away.
Wes,
Sounds like you are using the target-dot reticle in your Leupold. I had the same problem with obscuring the target. I had one changed to a mil-dot reticle at Leupold. I think the next time I get a Leupold reticle changed, I'll let Premiere Reticle take a shot. Leupold did an OK job, but I would like to try Premiere's product next time.
Duman <steve_duey@hp.com>
Home of the Stanley Cup, Denver,CO, USA - Monday, June 11, 2001 at
18:24:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 15.254.49.1)
Only two more days till my Kansas safari. :.)
Doc <docs@fidnet.com>
The sultry Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Monday, June 11, 2001 at 19:57:20
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.251.141.243)
I have contacted the Benning Rifle and Pistol Club about an event in October. Looks like a Saturday-Sunday match with a Military/LE catagory and an "open" catagory for civvies. I am planning to conduct it on the Highpower range with side matches being conducted on 300 yard zero ranges.
Seminars on Friday.
Exact dates/entry fees etc. TBD.
Sorry it cant be sooner but I have to go to Austria in August/Sept and hope to be in Canada In July... damn!! thats next month!! Sheeit. Besides we need time to plan and advertise.
Anyway, it appears that this will be the first official function of the ILR.
Going to see the lawyers in the morning to incorporate the ILR.
Looking for prize donations. We will be a 501(c) corporation.
Who dares wins!
Out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Monday, June 11, 2001 at 20:03:15 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.214.52.6)
A few years ago, while cruising for some gun info, I fell into this rabbit hole and felt comfortable with the people. But I never really belonged here.
Thanks to all of you good people for the conversation and friendship. I'm old, so I have very much to do in very little time. This is my last post.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Monday, June 11, 2001 at 20:15:39 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.253.13)
GOOD to hear that. As soon as you have the details pass it on so I can post it.
All the best with the ILR - did you get my email?
Marius
Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
RSA - Monday, June 11, 2001 at 20:24:50 (ZULU) (your host address:
155.239.180.41)
Don't run away just because you're old and not a sniper. I'm an old retired airplane driver. Not everyone on here is a sniper.
'lito,
Did the moustachioed cat lady drag you off? Your wit and wisdom are missed.
Doc <docs@fidnet.com>
Getting ready to pop prairie poodles in the sultry Ozark boonies, MO,
USA - Monday, June 11, 2001 at 21:14:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.251.142.72)
Mike In Texas - I do believe that is what my uncle said when he first saw me as a youngen, "Dam look at that ugly puppy."
"Lito - You hiding out man?
Hold Hard guys and have fun.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, June 11, 2001 at 22:32:10 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.197.198)
Got a Mil Dot question........NOW, all your Army types, and CORPS
guy's don't jump at once.........
I have heard the (some of) the pro's and Cons of the Army ret, v.s.
the USMC ret, which is best, and WHY???.
Also, noticed something I thought to be unusual......have a wad of
NEW Lapooie brass.
Was checking the HS on it, and found it to be around -.001 to +.001...
This isn't enough for a lot of chambers, and I got a Win 70 HBV,
with a -.002 HS......
Have ya'll noticed this before?..or might it just be this batch?.
Most ALL other NEW brass I have runs -.004, -.002.
It is with a tad of difficulty chambering this batch.
( But, i ain't gonna resize it, no how , no way!!).
Thanks.......
Dos Zap
Two Shoes
Terry <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 00:49:40 (ZULU) (your host address:
152.163.204.77)
Don't leave cause you're not a "slotted sniper."
I have no Military or LE experience, but I dearly love anything that goes bang (and hits what it's pointed at).
I love this site, and through it have made a bunch of good friends, from whom I have learned much. And I keep on learning.
If it weren't for this site, I wouldn't be going shooting this weekend with three federal (and one local) "slotted snipers."
I don't think that all who post here need to be getting a paycheck as a "designated sharpshooter" in order to contribute and to have their opinions and findings valued and respected. I'd be SOL if that were the case.
GOOCH,
Hot Damn! Get it going, and put me down for 10 MM's for the prize table! Let me know the details, and location of a good nearby motel with a reliable ice machine, and I'll buy the first round.
Best Regards,
Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 01:21:32 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.254.243.79)
Chris
chris <chris_t12@hotmail.com>
federal way, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 01:44:06 (ZULU) (your
host address: 24.12.237.46)
Hey man, I'm old too, but my shooting keeps me motivated to stay in shape so I can do almost anything the young'uns can. I don't post here often, but I check in a couple times a day. You've been fairly active here, and most of the guys like hearing from you. Sorry you feel this way.
Gooch,
This rendezvous at Benning sounds great. I would like to meet some of the guys that post here on the Roster. October sounds good to me. Thanks for taking the time to set it up.
Later,
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 01:45:50 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.188.193.166)
Also, raffle prize received...RIGHT ON MR. ROBINSON!!!! One hell
of a product. Thanks.
Later guys,
Rich S. <RS1441@aol.com>
Bal'mer, MD, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 02:26:44 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.213.193)
Man, what's the deal? You have been around and contributed enough to become an honest to goodness "Patron" of hawgdome. Hell, I ain't a sniper either but I sure have fun here. It's all about shooting and bugging 'Lito!
Gooch,
Never been to Benning but am ready for a road trip! October is el
perfecto.
Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 02:29:20 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.50.55.23)
Chris – Actually the rain would have a negligible effect unless you are shooting at a very long distance. While it can be computed, it would fall into the “noise” category of “Lito’s.
Well, two posts in one night go figure. Back to the range tomorrow and more fun with the students.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 02:48:07 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.193.49)
Yo dude - my gnat's assed amount experience has taught me thus far that my eyeballs and the brain housing group prefer the round dots.
I've owned a loopie with the oval dots, my B&L's have round dots.
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
nokesville, va, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 02:58:23 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.233.164.13)
Just remember... It's the journey, not the final destination.
Tim
Gizmo <ssn581@teleport.com>
Beavercreek, Oregon, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 05:01:36 (ZULU)
(your host address: 216.26.60.161)
Duman... I've been using Premier Reticles for about eight years. They are HANDS DOWN the best optics guys (Leupold) to deal with in the world. I have never had a complaint with them. Their service and advice is outstanding. Plus, anything I have ordered has been in stock and at my door in minimum time. I will use no one else.
CDC...Very few of us are paid shooters. I'm a 46 year old retired squid spook. I have two ruptured discs from an on the job car crash in March. I sit in a patrol car for nine hours every day. I have gotten the AR out of the case four times in two years. I have never gotten the Gun from Hell out for an official call. That doesn't mean that I have given up on being the best shooter I can be. That doesn't mean that I don't learn something every day when I lurk on the site. That doesn't mean that I don't hope to someday connect with Moe and the Florida mafia. That doesn't mean that I don't want to be taught to stalk and sweat and grit my teeth in frustration as I creep toward the target knowing that my lime green and panzer red brown gillie is causing such mirth in the observer's stand that they can't even catch their breath to call the walkers out. That doesn't mean I hope Gooch gets the Benning deal together. WV too far from FL.... Georgia is do-able! I have read and appreciated your posts over the last few years and sincerely hope that you reconsider. Without you, we are all diminished. Be safe. Bill
Bill0294 <lhardin21@netscape.net>
Clearwater , FL, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 05:12:28 (ZULU) (your
host address: 24.28.56.116)
Gentlemen,
I'm a NH police officer with six years experiance and I'm looking
for some long range competition to compete in and learn from. All the big
competetions west of the Mississippi are a little to far to drive and I
need something closer to home. Any help would be appreciated, thankyou!
John Murphy
JOHN MURPHY <X191145@AOL.COM>
MILFORD, NH, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 05:56:59 (ZULU) (your
host address: 64.12.103.28)
I loved the smell of Kudzu on a humid Georgia morning and the sound
of cadence and boots on pavement as the 250' towers appeared out of the
haze. Liberty Pond, Red Cloud Range, Harmony Church, York Field, Building
Four. Those were the best years of my life. How I miss it.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 11:46:09
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
CDC, we have talked via email about this. You rang the bell anyway. You have reason to gripe about what goes on here anymore. In my opinion(not that it matters) you made a poor choice.
Guys busy day today. Hold hard
Mike/Undude
MikeMiller <tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 12:34:17 (ZULU) (your host address:
148.165.85.148)
I have a rifle that is 51.5" long, 9" high (from bottom of A2 stock to NF 5.5-22X56 elevation knob) and 2.5" wide with the bolt removed. The rifle weights about 16 pounds so a lightweight plastic case is out of the question.
How big (length, height, width) should a rigid aluminium case for this rifle be ? The rifle will fit into a Starlight or any "big scoped rifle" case that is 52" long. My problem is that I do not want to have rifle barrel poking out of the case's wall after an airline trip and I believe the case should be maybe 54-56" long. Am I right or am I just paranoid ?
I am planning to buy a heavy duty aluminium version but a Starlight case is not totally out of the question. Other possibles are Kalispel and Cabelas "bullet proof" cases. ANy insights on this one ?
Hexa
Hexa <juhola@luukku.com>
USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 14:46:14 (ZULU) (your host address:
193.229.72.78)
Mike/Undude,
Sorry to hear about your bad experience with Magellan, but not surprised. I've owned a Magellan Skyforce GPS for years and decided to get the processor upgraded. I mailed the unit to Magellan and waited...waited...
I called a week after I should have gotten my box back and asked
what was going on. I got the runaround like you wouldn't believe. According
to the
I'm pretty much out of flying now, but it's Garmin all the way if I ever look for another GPS. I love my Skyforce, but Magellan is NOT on our Christmas list.
/rant mode off
Steve "El Roto" G. <gopack@sprintmail.com>
Carrollton, TX, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 15:14:58 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.77.7.239)
I know there are more than 20 or so of you out there that shoot Savage rifles. If you are interested in having a better stock and I know you are, PLEASE e-mail Scott Powers. He is trying to work out a deal with HS Precision and he needs to be able to provide those good folks with an accurate picture of demand.
His e-mail is xring@voicenet.com
As he mentioned in a previous post, no commitments are needed; just a genuine level of interest.
Question: What is the barrel twist rate for the .223 Winchester Stealth?
Bolt - You get my e-mail??
Semper Fi
Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
Reston, VA, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 15:15:17 (ZULU) (your host
address: 216.173.17.78)
Tip, if you buy flip-up sights for use on a flat-top AR get the fully adjustable rear. I just got back from the range and I've bottomed out my front post. I'll have to reduce it's height by 2/3rds of it's width to put POA @ POI. Also, the rear flip-up from GG&G will walk windage when it's flipped down and up. I'll have to work on this one. (here comes the loctite)
I'm getting 2-2.5 inch groups with SS109s at 100 yds. using the irons. So far so good.
I know they're just for backup but I still want them on the money.
I read that some terrorists in the PIs just beheaded an American hostage.....anybody heard from 'lito? Damn, I'm worried they started to interrogate him about spin-drift and things went badly. ;-)
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 16:36:00
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
Best part was that a great many people thought it was a guitar case.
Don't know what they cost, but the issue case for the USMC M40A1
was the Pelican. One of the advantages for those was that they supposedly
floated-dropping rifles in the water was the primary cause of rifles being
returned for repair.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
VA, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 19:05:14 (ZULU) (your host address:
158.106.50.3)
Thanks to all who responded to my previous question.
REMINDER: E-mail Scott Powers at xring@voicenet.com if you are interested in an HS Precision stock for your Savage rifle!!!!!
Semper Fi
Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
VA, USA - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 20:53:30 (ZULU) (your host address:
216.173.17.78)
L8er!
Stefan
"Gun control means USING BOTH HANDS!"
Stefan <sniperhide@run.to>
Someplace, Somewhere, The Netherlands - Tuesday, June 12, 2001 at 22:19:24
(ZULU) (your host address: 213.46.159.37)
Paul, I think you have found Graf's by your price, if not, they are around $106.00, per 500..and charge only $4.75 per shipment.
Rich S, on Emporium buys....I have had only two , one exemplary,
and one, not "Quite", as advertised.( Not SURE if the guy new he HAD a
problem).
Old saying.....Caveat Emptor!!!!!......
Again, thanks guy's..appreciate any and all feedback.
Two Shoes
Dos Zap
Terry <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 01:02:26 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.188.198.183)
Hang in there, man! If I'm not too old, I doubt that you are. I'm thirty-something, and the something will be 30 this year. I have brittle bones, plastic lenses in my eyes, a pig valve in my heart, and I'm not a sniper in any respect other than a love of accurate long range shooting, and a respect for those who can do it. I don't get to do enough of that to be very good at it, but I do keep trying to learn and practice. I guess I'm just too stubborn to quit - or maybe too stupid.
Y'all come back, now. Y'hear?
Mike - the armchair sniper
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
USA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 01:45:14 (ZULU) (your host address:
65.67.61.67)
Each time I have to go to Benning I stop at the ABN school and actually miss it(a little). Hard to believe that I went through there 20 yrs ago. JEEEZ !!
Patron Rick,
Are you guys having any trouble with the MK211? We got some in with
Greek headstamps and it is causing us fits.
Will be at Bragg soon also to show the 338 Lapua Mag. I think I'm
supposed to be going to JFK Center.
Outta here.
Tony <50buildr@bellsouth.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 02:36:50 (ZULU)
(your host address: 209.214.118.74)
Hell, now I know why you shoot that BFG so well, you been modified
for competition.
Mike in Texas <appspec1@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 02:37:24 (ZULU) (your host
address: 208.232.237.21)
I removed the material from the front sight post last night.
I'll rezero today. The quality of the GG&G products is top notch.
The "windage walk" on the rear sight doesn't seem to be too big a problem. I'll just have to keep an eye on it.
I ordered a Aimpoint ML2 and a "Rail Grabber" mount yesterday. I'll get a GG&G mount in time but right now I'm trying to stay within a budget.
The information about the various Aimpoints is confusing to me. Battery life, dot size and NV compatability etc. I guess the 4 MOA dot is the hot set-up.
Have you done any long range work with an Aimpoint? I'm looking at a rig that will fill the gap from zero to 300 yards. I figure the 4 MOA will pretty much cover a IPSC target at 300 yards.
What do you know about IR laser designators with goggles?
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 10:52:59
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
Kevin M. maybe you could get a VIP jump. During the match we will
be holding PT daily at 5am. It will consist of the daily dozen and a 5
mile run. AIRBORNE.
TonyY <ayackowski@pershing.com>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 11:52:33 (ZULU) (your
host address: 32.97.88.102)
That was 25 years and 35 pounds ago.......
Scheduling might be a problem. I'm going to be in the PRC for most of October. Then I'm going to the shoot in Texas.
This VIP jump you mentioned is it a "hop-n-pop" or do you go out with a full stick? That would be a hoot!!
A while back while attending a reunion an old guy was listening to a bunch of young troopers talking all about how many jumps they'd logged. He said, "That's impressive, I only had three, Sicily, Normandy and Holland." They changed the subject.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 12:22:19
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
Mike T <Riflemike@home.com>
USA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 12:42:40 (ZULU) (your host address:
216.238.112.27)
RE: Ft. Benning Boom-a-thon.
If you have any zig or zag room on scheduling your potential rendezvous / comp, I would like to put a vote in for early October or sometime in November.
We finally got our time off and ransom paid to the wives and were going to SMTC, but now that that's blown I would like an alternative. Only problem is that we are already locked in (re: paid entry) to the Sniper's Paradise match the last weekend of October.
I certainly don't expect you to sway things just for me but I can guarantee 4 paid slots to your Benning Bonanza if you can give us some jinking room on dates. Do what you can and post your firm schedule as soon as practical.
Even if it conflicts with our SP trip, I would be glad to donate some KMW prizes to the Rendezvous.
Later,
TC
Terry Cross <kmw308@aol.com>
Forest Hill, LA, USA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 13:22:27 (ZULU)
(your host address: 64.12.103.151)
Mike T.
Marius sent me and edited version (whoa is my spelling and grammar
bad) so I guess it should be up soon.
The RAS seems to hold a "zero" better than the RIS but still you
can bump it or twist it out of alignment.
The only things I put up there now are the M203 leaf - and a flashlight
or laser.
Kevin of the GWN <bolandks@home.com>
Canada - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 13:52:17 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.71.223.141)
Tonight - MY time. God permitting.
Marius
Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
RSA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 14:08:22 (ZULU) (your host address:
196.25.27.66)
You can't poke your barrel out of the Starlite case unless Godzilla is the baggage handler.
The foam lining is cut (by you) to fit the outline of your weapon. In effect, it's in it's own little pocket or cradle and there is sufficient space on both ends to handle any slippage.
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 17:28:34 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.197.66)
"....to someday connect with Moe and the Florida mafia...."
Eh? Ifa you gonna geta ethnic, I needa smacka you ina head!
CDC -
Damn, man. Take a poll here. If it weren't for us "old" guys full of stainless steel pins, hitech plastic discs and lifetime memberships in the Rogaine Hairclub, who aren't paid duty slotted snipers, who would keep 'lito and his "animal" problems in check?
It's the journey, not the the goal. Didn't you listen to your sensei?
Ft. Benning Shoot -
Bet you'll get a large SE USA contingent turn out. I know that Guido, Nunzio and Pauly are ready to boogie!
Moe The Wop
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 19:47:55 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.194.183)
Where: Camp Butner - Butner, NC (30 miles north of Durham on I-85)
Service Rifle, Palma, F-Class...
Check out info here www.homestead.com/xat9. Will be hosted by the North State Shooting Club. A good bunch of guys. I was at Camp Butner this past weekend, got to shoot 600yds to test loads and test cam tracking. Nice range. I have never shot 1000 but am looking forward to checking it out. I hope some of you will come out.
Semper Fi
Paul
Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
Reston, VA, USA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 20:15:45 (ZULU) (your
host address: 216.173.17.78)
try this:
http://www-benning.army.mil/airborne
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 20:42:56 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.194.183)
Take a look here, and after you've picked yourself off the floor and recovered from your laughter tell this ignorant webmaster which photos actually belong where - and if you can maybe provide an appropriate caption here and there...
Then I'll try and rectify that tomorrow night, as right now it is time for some shut-eye (remember I'm ZULU+2).
I didn't want to delay this any longer despite the possibility of the above problems, and wanting to put captions there - have I delayed it long enough for the Emporium? :-)
Marius
Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
RSA - Wednesday, June 13, 2001 at 22:41:02 (ZULU) (your host address:
155.239.180.127)
Inquiring minds and all that stuff, bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 00:22:04 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.50.54.205)
From my past experience of shooting in high power matches that were hosted by the Santa Margareta Gun Club at Camp Pendleton (USMC) outside San Diego, CA there was never a problem. We would simply stop at the gate (enterance to the base) and let them know we were there for the match. They would then just ask which range it was supposed to be held at and if we needed directions there and wave us in.
Now these were regular scheduled events but I would assume that Fort Benning would operate alone similar lines. At most they might verify you have a license, vehicle registration, and insurance before having you fill out a short form and then issuing you a pass that would be good for a day or two.
If I'm off base just set be straight, cause I'm going to try and make it. I haven't been there since 1973 but I still remember a resturant that had all you could eat seafood dishes and pitchers of ice cold beer!
Hope to see you there...
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 00:47:26 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.217.215.1)
Have Friday planned as a 6.5 x .284 test day. Weather should prove to be good. I'll be testing the original lot of Black Hill's factory ammo with moly-coated 142 Sierra MK's. These chrono at 3,020 F.P.S., but have not been tested across the course yet. With this completed I can finish my story for Accurate Rifle/Precision Shooting. It should prove to be interesting.
My M3 and mounts arrive at my M25 gunsmith's tomorrow. I expect to have it back within about 2 weeks. I'm STOKED. Even if it is only a "Gas Gun"...;-)
PLEA FOR HELP: Any of your with experience with the M25, M3 scopes, and recommended loads, etc. I'd like to hear from you. Will need a LOT of assistance as I'm a bolt gun kinda guy.
I'd say I'm "gas challenged", but my wife would disagree with that...
Talked with Bravo. He's doing OK. Miss his posts here, but know he'll be back when things settle out a bit.
CDC...Dammit man, I'm NOT the racehorse I once was, but don't let that make you leave. Remember: "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" any day! Yes, I now qualify for AARP!
More later...
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Bldogett, OR, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 01:04:20 (ZULU) (your
host address: 198.145.248.224)
Wes, try 43.5 of 4064 with a moly'ed 175 Match King (Lapua, W-W, or Lake City Match brass, WLR primer). It'll take you past 1,000 with an M25. GI stats call for 2.80 inches OAL, not to exceed 2.83. Four firings only, then the brass is finished (case stretching and case wall thinning). My brother just got his M1A back from a Geoff Corn re-build in Indiana, to take to Perry for the 800-900-1,000 service (iron sight) class.
Benning in October/November is quite comfortable (and the dog-pecker
gnats won't be crawling over yer eyes, nose, and mouth). Sounds great,
Gooch! If it firms up that Benning is indeed going to happen, I'll ask
the USAMU if they might show off some of their unclassified Skunk Works
projects. There are a few other National Guard bases around that could
possibly host (Camp Butner, North Carolina; Camp Swift, Texas, if it's
still around; maybe Camp Bullis outside San Antonio).
Sinister Dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 01:38:32 (ZULU)
(your host address: 66.26.26.128)
Spent the day at Ft Benning. Went down to visit some folks at the Infantry Conference. Talked to some people about the match and I have a couple of ways about going at it.
I'm already "in" at Ft McClellan. To tell you the truth McClellan has some better facilities for such a match. They have some ranges that were built for the MP SRT school that will fit nicely (elevated shooting positions etc). I know its not "The home of the Infantry" but....its a State facility now and I have more pull there!
As far as getting weapons onto an Army base. Ummm...when was the last time anyone saw an MP on a gate at a Army base? They don't have them anymore. The Fort Benning Rifle-Pistol Club has matches almost every weekend and guys come on with AR's, CAR's, "sniper rifles" etc. I think the AF, USMC and Navy are the only ones that have "closed posts". Even Bragg is a drive through isn't it? Minus some sensitive areas ofcourse.
I have the incorporation process going. Looks like we will be 501(c). Probably do our charity work through youth programs and programs for police/military schools (awards for honor grads etc).
Hang on guys, its a comin!
Out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 02:40:05 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.214.52.182)
I get 2670 to 2685 out of 24" Rock 5R tube and consistant 1/2 MOA groups with this load out to 800. I set the load to work with my Lupy M3 BDC and not pressure signs, but you have to jiggle the powder down with the case tumbler to settle it in. This load has also worked just as well on my Stealth and FN.
IN a note to the Moly debate. I too get the Cold bore shoot change of impact with the bolt guns, but my two big AR's don't show the same result. CBS with these is right where it should be. Could the 5R be the difference?
Gooch - Benning sounds like a plan, count me in for now. Just don't make it too late as a lot of Deer hunting starts in mid Nov.
Take Care
Titan
Titan <hatherly1@home.com>
USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 03:07:25 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.4.252.150)
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
LakeCormorant, MS, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 03:12:11 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.197.179)
Seeing as how I'm about as fresh to Long Range as it gets, this is from one newbie to another. I may be able to save you some time.
Mounted the Badger Ord. 20MOA base on my Stealth today, and knew from previous roster entries that the front screw would be too long so I took a strait file to it for about 10 minutes and presto, or so I thought. The second screw, from the muzzle, runs right in and seem fine BUT... If you run it all the way down you can't close your bolt:-(
I know most of you expierenced guys know this so please disregard, but for anyone that is going to put one on a stealth, either get two new very short screws or be prepared to shorten a second screw. You may be lucky and get two shorties from Badger, but all four of mine were the same length.
I Torqued each screw to 25in lbs (smallest torque setting on craftsman in lbs wrench) individually to ensure that each was playing it's part before I put the four of them in together and I feel like I could hang a truck from this base. A little blue Worths thread sealer and it's good. Top knock I must say, very heavy duty.
Also, for those in the market for an inch pound torque wrench for cheap, the craftsman 3/8" drive torque wrench stock #44593 is on sale for $49 until 6-17 01. I believe that is nation wide craftsman sale. It only goes down to 25in lbs, but what the hell for 50 buck.
I'd also like to thank Lito and Terry "Two Shoes" for their patience and help through this project. You have both been more tha kind.
Chris
"FatBoy"
Chris <hepkat0013@aol.com>
Gettin' Damn Hot, Mid-Tn, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 03:55:54
(ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.56)
Glad to see you back! Was wondering what had become of you.
Wes,
that article. Will we be getting it as well for posting after having been published? Or is this an exclusive for them? Enquiring mind...
Marius
Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
RSA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 06:31:23 (ZULU) (your host address:
196.25.27.66)
I wonder whether the Starlight case is too short BECAUSE if I cut the foam to accomodate my 51.5" rifle in a 52" case will mean that effectively I will end up cutting the internal foam in two separete parts. These parts will then be able to move more freely in the case than a smaller rifle that will only need an elaborate rifle-like-hole cut in the foam.
Any thoughts on this one or am I just too detail-minded ?
PS Thanks for everybody who sent me emails concerning the case issue. I am going to spend more than 200 USD so I really do want to buy the BEST and not just something I will end up replacing after a year or so.
If I decide to buy the Starlight I still have a few days left on
the Fathers Day rebate program :-)
Hexa <juhola@luukku.com>
USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 08:41:19 (ZULU) (your host address:
212.226.255.17)
drmarc
drmarc <drmarc@se-tel.com>
HillBilly, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 12:53:10 (ZULU) (your host
address: 65.163.10.56)
Mark, you are gonna have to probably Small Base resize the semi brass, unless you adjust your dies AGAIN.
Two Shoes
Terry <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 13:14:04 (ZULU) (your host address:
64.12.105.37)
Titan: I'm beginning to think CBS may be related to bore finish.
I have one rifle with a Shilen barrel that puts the CBS dead center in
the group at 200 yards. Have 1 new rifle to try out to see how it does,
the others throw the CBS out of the group.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
VA, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 15:18:50 (ZULU) (your host address:
158.106.50.3)
Guess I missed the part on how long your rifle is. Try angling the gun from upper right to lower left to see if that gets you more space.
If it's really that close, you might not do with a Starlite.
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 16:38:45 (ZULU) (your
host address: 216.88.196.206)
Has anyone besides peteR got any experience with the IOR Hermes 1 spotting scope?
I'm just starting out in service rifle hipower and need a good scope. I only want to buy once.
The Hermes appears to be a good scope for the money but Jim Owens sells Kowa's at competitive prices. What's a guy to do? :-((
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 16:49:15 (ZULU) (your
host address: 216.88.196.206)
http://home.nc.rr.com/laberge/NSSC/Match_Regional_2001.html
I have had several responses regarding this match. This is NOT a sniper competition. It is a long range (1000yds) match, open to all. I look forward to seeing some of you out there. I will be easy to recognize, just look for the target number board with dirt flying up around it.
Semper Fi
Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
Reston, VA, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 18:02:53 (ZULU) (your
host address: 216.173.17.78)
F-class will be allowed in all prone-only matches. F-class will not
be allowed in "accross the course" matches. In this "Supported Rifle Category"
any rifle with any sights will be allowed but be aware that setup must
be accomplished in a given 3 minute preperation period. The front and the
rear of the rifle can be supported with sandbags, bipods, or rifle rest.
The butt of the rifle must be placed in the shoulder of the shooter while
firing in the prone position. Muzzle breakes are not allowed. Caliber not
to exceed .30 caliber. F-class scores will not be reported to NRA. Competitors
in this category will not be eligible for the match winner award. Separate
awards will be given in this category. One award will be given for each
5 F-class competitors or major fraction thereof.
Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
VA, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 18:09:19 (ZULU) (your host address:
216.173.17.78)
Clear glass, functional ergos...
I have three complaints.
-The bipod that came with it took up too much room in my garbage
can
-The lightweight protective cloth cover makes it hard to tilt the
scope (there is a unique band design that is bound up by the cover)
-The adjustble eyepiece focus is slightly out at 100 yards (not
enough adjustment)..110 yards and farther out are perfect....
If I had it to do over again, I would buy the IOR for range work and the leupold 25x with mils for my pack...which is exactly what I have...
now if I could just find a moderate cost compact tripod that can handle the abuse I give it.....
BTW - Scott Powers on the Snipercountry PX is great to deal with,
very customer oriented.... a pro.
Jim Mitchell <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
NJ, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 18:27:57 (ZULU) (your host address:
12.20.190.1)
Thanks,
Fitz.
Fitz. <sfitzgerald@arpac.com>
USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 18:43:13 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.243.145.99)
Jim,
I picked up a $5.00 mini tripod at the photo counter of Walmart
a few weeks back. The legs extend to about four inches. It is bare minimum
and It fits my 25X Loopy nicely. I haven't really field tested it yet but
it is better than nothing and is a fraction of the bulk and weight of my
larger fully adjustable tripod. You might want to take a look at it.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 19:30:52
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
Just a simple warning form a simple kinda guy.
Gooch - You may drive through Fort Bragg on one of the open access roads but you need a sticker to get onto fort Bragg now. they spot check with green stamps.
STAY AWAY from the GSG-9s - We used them and they are slicker then owl s**t on a greased floor when it is wet! Have a hole caused by a hip in the dry wall next to a door because of those suckers! mt daughter busted her knee the first and only time she wore them in a foot pursuit due to wet conditions.
Kevin you beat me to the tripod comment. Many "table top" camera tripods work very well and they are cheap. They can also be modified to take rifles and give a bit of flexibility to the bipod issue.
Oh well, rained to heck and gone in NC. Our course is a bit behind schedule due to this non sense and we are trying to adapt once again to the the lack of visibility required for this type of training. :-)
Hold Hard Guys!
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 20:56:09 (ZULU)
(your host address: 64.12.103.161)
Chris "Fat Boy": I have a Redding small base die you can borrow if
you want to check out the theory prior to buying one. Or send me some cases
to resize ... I should say a few cases :-). Email me.
Bill0294 <lhardin21@netscape.net>
Clearwater , FL, USA - Thursday, June 14, 2001 at 21:58:38 (ZULU) (your
host address: 24.28.5.168)
If funding permits get a Kowa with the 45 degree 25xLER eye piece. I have used the TSN-1 (in the configuration, it has 77 mm front lense but is a discontinued model) and they are GREAT! The reason for the 25xLER (Long Eye Relief) is that you can still see through the scope without having to take off your shooting glasses. As for the stand, get one with three wide legs. The reason is that the scopes of today are bigger and heavier than the older ones and with the winds at the matches you run the risk of it blowing over in off-hand stage if you use one of the two-leg models.
Check out http://www.jarheadtop.com/kowa.html he takes the TSN-1's
in trade and resells them.
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 00:08:36 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.217.215.1)
I know this is off the gun goodie stuff but you gota check out these
knives. I just bought my father's day gift yesterday. It is a Kershaw Ken
Onion BOA. This baby is bad! It has assisted opening, Ti- nitride coating.
It's bitchin'! I love Spyderco knives but this little number is probably
the best designed self defense tactical folder I have ever had the pleasure
to touch. Even my wife to be wants one. I know some of you out there are
knifenuts like me as well as a gun nut.
If you ever get yer paws on one you can't stop playing with the
knife! Dang! It'sharp too! Shaves like a Mach 3.
Semper Fi!
Bad Karma
Bad Karma <jwhiteii56@hotmail.com>
Communist California, USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 02:13:40 (ZULU)
(your host address: 206.170.184.170)
Mark Smith - sent you an Email.......to much to write for here.
Titan <hatherly1@home.com>
USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 02:25:53 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.4.252.150)
There was an article in Precision Shooting recently on the Meade 90 mm terrestrial scope. They are the astronomical telescope people. Since it is a reflector, the light loss is really low - i.e. bright images. My old eyes need bright images! It has a 45 degree erect image eyepiece adaptor, and an inverting straight-through port, selected by a prism. Reportedly quite rugged - this one had a 10 year history of bangs and bumps. Claim is to be able to see .223 holes at 1k yards - (under ideal conditions!), and to be able to read a license plate at 1 mile. I can't see .50 cal holes at 1k with my Fujinon 20-60x80, and it is pretty near the Kowa in clarity. (though I've never tried either before mirage set in.)
Price is in the same range as the Kowa and other top end spotting scopes.
If I were buying a new spotting scope for the range, I'd check this thing out.
HTH
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 03:13:15 (ZULU) (your host address:
65.67.61.67)
I'll give you two words of advice on the scope for TRG-s in .338 LM - "eye" and "relief". I've been shooting for 45 years and never got a scope cut till I got behind my TRG-s in .338 LM. It *will* bite you without adequate eye relief.
Stay away from Tasco Custom Shop 8-40x56 - mine has come apart on me twice. Save your money and get decent optics - you will be much less frustrated. Shop the used market carefully - you may find a good deal there.
My rifle shows promise of being a good tight shooter - if I can get a scope to hold up for more than a few rounds.
HTH
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 03:24:03 (ZULU) (your host address:
65.67.61.67)
I have one with the zoom ocular and I love it. It adjusts easily,
it is clear and it is waterproof. If I had to make decision again, I would
buy the Hermes 1 again.
Hexa <juhola@luukku.com>
USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 04:36:38 (ZULU) (your host address:
193.229.72.75)
Sinister, RickB: Any chance you HALO/SOTIC guys at Bragg might run
a sniper match for us civis to get into? It would be like old home week
in Fatalburg for some of us old group guys. Well anyway if the Benning
thing comes to life it's going to be hilarious seeing the new Army of one
with there new Monica berets.
TonyY <ayackowski@pershing.com>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 12:05:46 (ZULU) (your
host address: 32.97.88.102)
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 12:35:28
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
B.Moore, I have a big box for you. Will go Monday.
On US Optics spotting scopes. They are not currently making them. I wish I had gotten one last year. It is a very nice scope, but went on the back burner with all the rifle scope projects going on. It will return and is a best buy at 400.00
Just picked up a Sako TRG41. Very nice piece. I wish they had used a different twist than 1x12. I have to load some 250grainers since the 300's would not fly worth a molly (s..t) in that twist. I have a US Optics mount for it as my only complaint is the stock mount is cheese d..k
Have I been clear on my view of molly.LOL
Undude
MIkeMiller <tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 12:55:56 (ZULU) (your host address:
148.165.85.148)
ANYONE INTERESTED IN AN HS PRECISION STOCK FOR HIS/HER SAVAGE RIFLE, SENT E-MAIL TO:
xring@voicenet.com
Semper Fi
Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
Reston, VA, USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 19:32:54 (ZULU) (your host
address: 216.173.17.78)
Rick, Kent, Dave, ... anyone
On Mils, what is the official mil to MOA value used by the USMC and the US Army? I'm reading article that state 3.44, 3.438, 3.375 and the "shooter's" mil of 3.6.
Anyone out these with experience in using GPS coordinates for FFP to TRP distance calculation? I've been toying with my GPS in UTM mode and it seems to work well for determining distance but I haven't heard any mention of it anywhere. Pros and Cons...
Kent
Think they'll let a fat retired Navy guy onto those Army bases for
the shoot?
When's the next "Riffle Raffle"?????
Dave "Doc" King <David_L_King@Yahoo.Com>
Damascus, MD, USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 20:02:37 (ZULU) (your
host address: 131.158.166.157)
I brought up the subject of using a GPS for range measurement a while back and I got a mess of flack.
The guys here went to contition black saying, "What kind of an amature would walk in his kill-zone....yada, yada,yada......."
I thought it was a neat idea for retrograde operations, static defence, OOTW, etc. but I guess it falls into the same class as laser range finders. (real snipers don't use 'em)
I hope you survive.
FWIW, I like the idea.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 22:01:44
(ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.198)
Thanks to Paul for sending me a hockey load of places to shoot here in NC. Now all I have to do is find out the rules for all of these different types of matches. Don't really care about the competition but sure am looking forward to shooting with someone other than the super burlap eating sniper tracker mutt.
Well, time to check the Virginia lottery, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 22:30:50 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.50.55.73)
NOW the math headache. I will get basic and then harder since that is how my addled brain works. The mil is actually a milradian or 1/1000th of a radian. A radian is equal to 57.29 degrees and is based of circumference and pi and not the base 360-degree circle. This means that there are 6.2838191 (Baarrrrff) radians in a 360-degree circle or 6283.8191 mils.
Since the degree has 60 minutes in it, then there are 21600 moa in a full circle. Thus there are 3.437 or 3.44 moa in a mil. We use the figure of 3.5 for ease of math in our little itty bitty brains. This means a difference of 3.44 x 1.047 = 3.60168 inches in a mil at 100 while 3.5 equals 3.66 inches at 100. This is an error I can live with for the lack of headaches when using these other wazo numbers.
Why the 3.375? Well the army made compasses with 6400 mils in a circle since it was easier to produce back when. The math makes the answer to be 3.375 and it is close enough for gov’t work BUT is a pain in the arse to use in your head when the calcamagator goes tits up. By the way this the reason for the belief that the Navy and other countries use a different type of mil then the army. Actually same mil different compass marks. Believe the Russians are closer with the 6200 compass and the Navy used 6284 for their BIG guns.
Now the short answer, 3.437 or 3.44 is correct for the math gifted. However, 3.5 works for the math challenged and those that use mental math. 3.375 is due to the army using a short cut to make their compasses. Clear as mud now? Last anal comment 1 mil at 1000 yards equal about 35.98539 inches and NOT 36 inches. PS It comes up short at 1000 meters as well. Everything gets rounded, don’t worry about it for our work.
Buy the Kowa or the Leupold. Get a good tripod for field use and then get a Freeland scope stand for the range.
Hold Hard guys and have fun.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Friday, June 15, 2001 at 22:32:24 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.197.28)
Thanks for the GPS heads-up.
Rick
Thanks for the explanation(s), I appreciate it.
Dave "Doc" King <David_L_King@Yahoo.Com>
Damascus, MD, USA - Saturday, June 16, 2001 at 01:53:02 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.78.179.74)
http://joe.mehaffey.com/navtalk.htm
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, USA - Saturday, June 16, 2001 at 12:09:50 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.50.54.106)
I have been pleased with it. Since they turned off the selective access (position distortion), the EPE (estimaged position error) ranges anywhere between 15 and 30 feet.
I have found this unit to work really well on the move, etc. When I flew to Okinawa this past december.... I powered it up and held it near the aircraft window... It measured the altitude...somewhere around 36,000 feet, and out air speed which I think was around 650mph at the time... I didnt think they would work that well...but darn sure did.. The stewardess told me that I had to put it away becuz it was not on the approved item list (even though it's a passive receiver).
Now - my reading and experience has taught me that these things are
very compute intensive... considering what they're being asked to do -
this makes sense.
My Garmin is hard on the batteries... I can't get much more than
- say 20 to 24 hours ... of continuous runtime out of the typical everready
aa batteries. My particular unit takes 4 of them. Of course if you get
one of these... I recommend that you purchase the vehicle power adapter
and the serial cable so you can download map datums and updated firmware
for the system that runs inside the GPS.
Now - again - my unit is 2 years old or ... no wait..maybe about 3 years old...so I have to believe that the newer Garmins are probably pretty sharp and hopefully not as hard on the batteries....
Hope this helps....
Ken :)
ken hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
nokesville, va, USA - Saturday, June 16, 2001 at 14:48:35 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.233.164.10)
WHAT: FREE TACTICAL INTERVENTION SLING/MILDOT MASTER GIVEAWAY
WHERE: HERE ON THE DUTY ROSTER
WHEN: 01:30 ZULU, 17-JUNE-2001
I WILL POST THE DETAILS THEN....
OUT.
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
nokesville, va, USA - Saturday, June 16, 2001 at 14:55:12 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.233.164.10)
Seriously, since the gps'es are synced up to the atomic clocks via
the satellites... you can bet the time is right on the money...
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
nokesville, va, USA - Saturday, June 16, 2001 at 15:14:16 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.233.164.10)
It's been such a long time since I was in the service, and even then I only remember using a 24 hr. clock and no Zulu time I needed some help on the conversion.
For those that may need the help as well I found the following site: http://www.timezoneconverter.com. Now I can be ready at 1830 hr. PST.
Standing By....
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Saturday, June 16, 2001 at 16:34:05 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.41.45.225)
I shoot High Power on Ft Knox Army post here in Ky. No problem getting on base at all. But there are some restrictions. Travel is allowed only to, and from the range you are using. No stops allowed at PX, Burger King, etc. Watch your speed. The MP's will stop you for less than 5 mph over the posted limit. Probably not much difference at Benning, or any other Army base.
I know it seems odd to be driving right past that big sign explaining the no weapons policy. I been doing this for years at Knox, and other Army posts with absolutely no problems. Oh, and forget about carrying concealed weapons on Post. Just keep 'em in the trunk, and pull over once you are off Post to go armed again.
Gooch,
Where is McClellan located? Not familiar with it. Thanks again for taking the time to work on the Rendezvous.
Later,
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, June 16, 2001 at 21:01:17 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.188.193.44)
Math and time challenged Bolt, out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, USA - Saturday, June 16, 2001 at 21:17:04 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.50.55.64)
Here ya go. We're running for a kit containing a mildot master slide
rule with instruction manual, and a tactical intervention sling.
No tactical kit should be without either of these.
So - here's what to do:
1. Compose an Email to: freebee20010616@aspiringtech.net
- you can click on my name - which will be the correct email address...
2. doesn't matter what you say in the message.
3. send it....
Rules:
1. YOU MUST BE A REGISTERED HOG... NO YOU CAN'T REGISTER RIGHT NOW
2. SEND ONE AND ONLY ONE MESSAGE...
I will leave it open until we get 311 messages... which is the number
of registered hogs that we have - or - I will let it run for 2 hours hour.
Whichever condition occurs first...
At that time ... I will shut down the Email address... I will then
get a random number within the range of the number of emails that I received.
Let's say your message arrived 15th...and the random number picked is 15.. you're the winner...
Go for it... and good luck.... we'll have several of these....
Ken Hunter <freebee20010616@aspiringtech.net>
nokesville, va, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 01:31:06 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.233.164.10)
Ken Hunter <freebee20010616@aspiringtech.net>
nokesville, va, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 01:36:06 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.233.164.10)
Going to zero the M3LR (on a badger 20MOA base)tomorrow morning. I have heard this is a bear of a job. I plan to get on paper with 147Gr Radway green and then get my zero with 168Gr Match from Champions Choice. (HSM Police Ammunition out of Missoula, MT). They are supposed to be set up just like FedGMM but with winchester brass and only 14.00 a box. Working fom 25 yards out to 100.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. (Thanks again Bill) You can hit me here or at my e-mail address. I know how to zero a normal scope, but this one has me a bit stumped and any tips from some of you hogs(and I know there's lots of ya) who use one would help greatly.
Good luck to all in the freebee..
Chris
"FatBoy"
Chris <hepkat0013@aol.com>
Hopin' for no Wind, Mid-Tenn, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 01:51:57
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.101.161)
Okay, if not that then what about eluding K9 patrols? Is that a consideration
or concern for the Military Sniper? If so what do you do about it? I believe
I know how some LEO (at least in Idaho) handle such situations, but that
does not seem to be a good solution for Military operations.
5db <info@accu-shot.com>
Wichita, KS, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 01:54:46 (ZULU) (your host
address: 216.236.17.10)
Just wanted to say "tickets, get your tickets", :'>
And please, let there be no bickering this time, we are all adults here, aren't we? They are free after all.
Good day, and Hold Hard.
Sean <nailer@mackbc.com>
wayyyy up north,, British Columbia,, Canada - Sunday, June 17, 2001
at 02:01:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.244.197.14)
Had a great day. Spent 4 hours shooting with a Gov't. type, ending with a bunch of 500 yard stuff with the fifty. 'lito, you still want brass?
Rem (former PSS) 700 shot like a house afire, due to a magnificent rebuild by Charlie Robertson of Score-Hi Gunsmithing in Albuquerque...can't say enough good about the job he did. He can be reached off my website ("other interesting links") or contact me directly. He even bushes the firing pin to ensure concentricity with the primer and bore!
Wanted to be the first to log onto the latest give-away, just to demonstrate my mastery of the GMT concept, but at 0120 ZULU my darling wife presented me with a plate of Steak Dunnegan (filet mignon topped with sauteed portobello mushrooms, onions, and green chile sauce). Life is good.
And yes, 'lito, it is "chile" (don't argue if you want the brass).
Best of luck to all who entered, even Bolt who is melting his PC doing the math on ZULU vs. East Coast Time.
Goodies go out within 24 hrs. of notification from Ken. Many thanks to Ken for running this site and making it a pleasure to be here.
Best Regards,
Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 02:15:58 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.254.238.147)
Sounds yummy!
I had escargo in garlic butter sauce/"Port" mushroom caps, &
some Jaeger dish with veal in a gravy with bacon, mushrooms, & sumfin
else.
Finished off with a slice of AWESOME double chocolate cake and a
cappucino.
Big :-)
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
Big City, By-Gawd, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 03:20:28 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.197.42)
I have a TRG-41 in .338LM, basically the same as the TRG-S. I use a Leupold Mk 4 M1 16X fixed with a USMC mildot wire reticle. Got it from Premier Reticles. Can handle the recoil. Puppy isn't cheap but most scopes will get pounded until they are worthless. Make sure you get a sturdy mount.
Good luck. Krowbar
KROWBAR <krowbar@scsssinc.com>
Chapel Hill, NC, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 03:27:44 (ZULU) (your
host address: 32.102.104.152)
Okay.... we had 25 respondents when I shut down the email address. I called a comrade of mine and had his wife pick a number between one and 25.. she picked 17...
Arrival 17 belonged to Sam Miller... Congratulations Dude!!!
Please Email your shipping address to: Ken@Hunters.org
These items are paid for with the $$ generated from the rifle raffle... there will be more of these freebee giveaways...
Good Night all!
These freebee drawings will come fast and move fast.. just like the bad guys... so be ready... and stay alert.... :)
Ken
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 03:54:21 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.233.164.10)
Zeroing the M3LR is not difficult. Get yourself on paper at 25 or 50 yards then zero at 100.
Once you are satisfied with your 100 zero, you should loosen the
three set screws on both the turrets just enough to let you reset the turret
knobs to absolute zero. In other words, after you're done zeroing at 100,
the windage knob may be set at something other than absolute zero. You
need to reset it to absolute zero.
01:30 ZULU -
Now that I have figured out that I am 2.5 hours late for the raffle, good luck to all who managed to know what time it is! LOL
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 04:04:59 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.198.186)
Just got a letter from Weatherby on a recall on the Vanguard rifles. I know not all of you are just "sniper" types. As for those inclined to hunt here's the skinny on your Weatherbys.
Safety Upgrade:
This is for Weatherby Vanguard rifles made between 1970-1993. The affected rifles are from serial#00001-03810; V0001-V80966; VX0001-VX44065; VS00001-VS23699; VL00001-VL46984; W0001-W0099; NV0001-NV0099.
They say if you have one of these rifles SOP firing it may cause severe injury. Appearantly the rifle may release the firing pin on the primer before the bolt is fully closed! KABOOM! All that needs to be sent in is the bolt. for more info go to www.weatherby.com or 1-800-227-2018.
As a brother rifleman and a gentleman it is my duty to bring this to your attention...PASS THE WORD!
Semper Fi!
Bad Karma
Bad Karma <jwhiteii56@hotmail.com>
USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 05:03:38 (ZULU) (your host address:
206.170.184.144)
As mentioned in an earlier post, I have gotten a replacement for the faulty magazine included with the FN Special Police. Now it's as smooth as a.... Let' see, smooth as.... Aw, heck, make up your own analogy, the only one I can think of has to do with a prom queen! At any rate, the cycling problem seems to be solved.
Interesting observation about this rifle, with me shooting it, on the days I've been out shooting. Two boxes of Federal GM308 with 168 Gr. SMK. 40 rounds fired 10 per session on 4 different days at the same target and the "aggregate" group is 1 7/8 inches. This is twice the size of the group fired in a similar test with GM308M with 175 Gr. SMK on the same 4 days. Two reloads in the same "test" produced groups virtually the same as the GM308M: 175 Gr. SMK w/40.6 Gr. IMR 4064 and 155 Gr. SMK Palma w/44.6 Gr. IMR 4064, both in fire-formed neck sized Winchester brass. I know a 160-round test isn't difinitive (Sp?), just seems something to go hmmmmmmmm about. It seems to me the GM308 would have done better than that. Maybe this rifle doesn't care for the 168 Gr. SMK???? Incidentally, the different loads were fired in random order, never the same for two days, and the rifle was fouled with two rounds each day at the start of the session.
Fun, not science!
PaulS <kpszopa@outdrs.net>
Columbia, MO, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 06:38:53 (ZULU) (your
host address: 64.197.216.11)
Let me be the first one to say congradulations :-)
Goin' to the range in 5 minutes..We'll see how it goes.
Chris
"FatBoy"
Chris <hepkat0013@aol.com>
Goin' to da range, Mid-Tenn, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 11:27:05
(ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.38)
Ken :(
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
nokesville, va, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 15:22:24 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.233.164.10)
I pulled my mag springs and got stiffer ones from a supply house,
it made a big difference in feeding. Never had a problem, but I have always
done this with M14 mags and it's old habit. I also had to re-bed mine and
work on the barrel channel, but I didn't fire it before doing the work
so i don't know how it changed things. I have not shot it over 400 yards
and the above were done at 100 yards. I have also set the trigger to 3
lbs.
my 2 cents worth.
Titan
Titan <hatherly1@home.com>
USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 15:48:55 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.4.252.150)
Zero'd the M3LR. You were all right, nothing to it. If my stupis A@# would have taken the cam off before posting I could have saved you all the time you spent responding. Didn't realize it's like a normal scope underneath. Thanks to those who helped.
Had enough 168Gr left over to shoot three groups. First one measured 3/4" - 5 shots, 2nd was 1" - 5 shots and 3rd was 1" - 7 shots extreme spread on each. I beleive that the groups opening had to do with either my eye getting tired, or the fact that the temp went up from 70 to about 86 and the target started to get alittle hazy. (Don't know if it's considered mirage at 100yards) But over all I'm very impressed with the rifle. All the groups were shot off bags and the last two groups had a slight(mabey 3mph) half wind, but I didn't think that would effect the bullet at 100 yards so I didn't adjust for it.
It's off to a good start :-> If I can get my butt motivated to get a reloading setup I think I can improve on this, but I could not have done this without the help of all you rosterfarians. Some of you have helped more than others, but in the brief year that I've been visting this site I've learned a great deal and for that, thank you all.
Chris
"FatBoy"
Chris <hepkat0013@aol.com>
Mirage settin' in, Mid-Tenn, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 18:27:53
(ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.184)
Also for anyone within driving distance of Indy (IN) there is a 1000 yard match at Canp Atterbury next sunday the 24th. It is open to F-classers. 60 rounds at 1000.
Later.
Bill.
Bill Byford <byfords@otbnet.com>
IL, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 20:24:52 (ZULU) (your host address:
4.22.166.142)
He wants everyone to know that he's still lurking about the Roster. His AO is still hot but he's putting one foot in front of the other. He even got to see his boy for a while which put a smile on his face!
Keep the emails and calls coming. He really appreciates them and all the comfort and morale boosting they provide for him.
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 20:53:53 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.213.208)
Didn't get to test the 6.5 X .284. Seems my body took a dislike to a prescribed medication and I had a severe reaction. Doctor took me of meds on Thursday and am now just getting back to normal. have a houseful today...
Monday or Tuedsay for sure! Will post results here. This will also be the final data for the story I'm writing. Want to get it off my "to do" list.
Moe summed it up on Bravo. As always, he needs our support during this trying time.
Happy Fathers Day to all of you.
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 00:36:55 (ZULU) (your
host address: 198.145.248.119)
In the 50th Anniversary Rifle Rel. Man., Sierra shows the max IMR
4064 load for their 175 matchking at 44.4 Gr., and the "accuracy" load
at 42.2 Gr. In the past I worked up to that second
load with good results in Ruger KM77VT Mark II and Remington VLS
rifles. I fired 5 rounds of this load in the FN with major pressure signs,
including 2 with ash around the primer, so I backed way down and worked
my way up again. I arrived at 40.6 Gr. which is accurate in this rifle.
I use Winchester WLR primers, by the way. I don't have a chrony so I can't
speak about velocity, but I'm going to borrow a friend's to learn more
about what is going on here. It seems somehow logical to assume the bore
is tighter in the FN than the rifles mentioned above, but again I have
no way to measure.
As for the trigger: The rifle is still untouched, but that will change soon. A local gunsmith has a Brownells stoning fixture and I'm going to have him work on the trigger. It's still at the original 7 lbs. He has worked on other Win triggers for me with outstanding results. I'm certain this will help. I didn't want to do any work on the rifle until the cycling problem was resolved.
One last thing, and this was discussed two or three weeks ago on the DR. From sandbags on a concrete bench the FN shot groups with the GM308M that ranged from .20 to .32 MOA. The "test" I described in my last post was fired from the same bench using a Harris bipod, and the 40-round group (over 4 days) was .78 MOA. A friend helped me do the math. I don't know if firing the test from sandbags would have made any difference. The bench is covered with outdoor carpet.
Fun, not science!
PaulS <kpszopa@outdrs.net>
Columbia, MO, USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 00:39:19 (ZULU) (your
host address: 64.197.216.6)
Thanks for the heads up. Live here near Nashville but a brother lives
in Indy, will make the trip up. Will be wearing Barrett Firearms t-shirt.
Stop by and kick my foot as I let fly with a shot.
60 rds on an F-class shoot! Most we ever did here was 20.
Tony <50buildr@bellsouth.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 00:54:15 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.214.113.179)
OTOH, my buddy's Rem. 308 (26" bbl) loves the Federal stuff...which
is good since I sold him a case of it.
No, I didn't mark up the price! Sheesh. :)
Goin' to Badlands in a few days. I can't wait to embarass myself in person for a change instead merely electronically.
Thanks for the drawing! I was #2
Steve "El Roto" G. <gopack@sprintmail.com>
Carrollton, TX, USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 03:49:06 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.27.18.103)
Glad to hear you will be there. Will you be shooting anything interesting?
Sign up is from 7:00 to 7:45, shooting starts at 8:30. Bring a lunch.
I'll be to busy guessing wind to mess with anybody!!
Mr. Bullet are you from around this AO?
Later.
Bill.
Bill Byford <byfords@otbnet.com>
IL, USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 03:49:55 (ZULU) (your host address:
4.22.166.144)
Tim
Gizmo <ssn581@teleport.com>
Beavercreek, Oregon, USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 05:02:52 (ZULU)
(your host address: 216.26.61.113)
Sarge <garryrn@zianet.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 06:38:42 (ZULU)
(your host address: 216.234.201.75)
George Out
George Gardner,
G.A. Precision Rifles <A10XRifle@aol.com>
Kansas City, MO, USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 08:51:19 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.248.155.66)
I removed the ARD and my groups got better. A crisp picture of the target seems to count.
I'm prepping for another Sniper Course. Half the fun is in the "fixin' to get ready". I ran the cross country course yesterday at a local community college. Use it or loose it folks. At nearly fifty it takes a bunch of work to get back in shape.
Kevin OTGWN: Comp ML is the hot set-up for sure. Thanks for the advise. SS109s into 3/4" at 50 yards in the middle of the dot.
Gooch: Good Luck and keep us posted. Too many sniper matches is like being too tall to play basketball.
Bravo: Stay strong.
I'm going off the net for a few days. Until I hit the Lotto I've got no choice but to work for a living. You Hog behave while I'm away.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 11:14:52
(ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)
I noticed on the site articles on defeating TI and basically the
fact it is near impossible?
On our courses we teach and practice students how to combat the
TI threat,
1st We show them how good use of ground between the Sniper and the
OP overcomes the TI's capabilities.
2nd We show the use of a TI screen which is used spaced from the
body to block the heat signature of the Sniper. The screen is usually constructed
using and old umbrella. This is cut in half to form a semi-circle, this
is then covered in two slightly spaced layers of cloth, canvas or hessian
(Burlap) the cloth is then ghillied and elastic attached to facilitate
the attachment of natural Camouflage.
The screen is light, folds for stowage and creates a screen in front
of the Sniper when moving or adopting a fire position.
Screens can be made with drapes in the centre in order for the barrel
and scope to see through the screen.
We have used this device and stalked against TI on many occations,
it works, however the Sniper must not forget other viewing devices, as
this is normally how the students get 'Pinged'
Try it, it works for us!
DECEPTION DEVICES
We also teach the use of deception devices during Concealment and
Stalking stands. These range from Ghillied heads on stakes to full blown
dummys operated via cord firing percussion caps to produce smoke etc..
to distract the observer from the Sniper.
Do any of the US schools/courses teach deception? (I know the Germans
go to some elaborate measures with Sniper deception)
Thoughts!
All the Best Slugboy
Slugboy <slug.boy@virgin.net>
England - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 12:36:32 (ZULU) (your host address:
62.253.64.4)
I was surprised at how well the M-24 shot with the 118 special ball. I kindof thought 118 was crap but it held pretty good groups out to 600 meters. I had shot it before with mixed results. It had a tendency to produce some nasty "Flyiers" for me. Being math challenged it was quite a challenge for me trying to convert to this meter crap(HA).
Bill B..
No, I am not from your AO (If your down south). I live up in centeral
South Dakota. I wish I was closer to some of these shoots but its so far
for me to travel. I just checked on the SC shoot in Ft. Benning and its
over 1400 miles for me, just to damn far to go.
Wes..
I don't remember if I told you or not but when I cronographed the
4831SC it was really tight on ES I think it was only around 27fps and had
low single digit SD if you want I could look it up and let you know.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 13:33:02 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.3)
A few things:
1. Has anyone had any luck trying to replicate the RL-15 M118LR load?
2. What is the general opinion of the Champion's Choice spotting scope?
3. Anyone going to Camp Butner for the 100 yd match at the end of the month BE SURE to bring bug juice. Avon's Skin So Soft is great. There are Deer Ticks everywhere!!
4. If you are interested in an HS Precision stock for your Savage rifle, e-mail Scott Powers at xring@voicenet.com
Semper Fi
Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
Reston, VA, USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 14:44:35 (ZULU) (your host
address: 216.173.17.78)
Chad
Chad <rem700_308win@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 16:00:19 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.52.189.36)
Pat, your results with H4831SC in the 6.5 X .284 mirror mine. VERY
low extreme spread. Mine was about 21 FPS if remember correctly.
Load shoots great...see no reason to change at this time, as it's
more accurate than I am...
Kevin, You are 100% correct. At 50 I'm trying to get into shape after riding a desk for five years. It's a very painful process...
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 16:42:16 (ZULU) (your
host address: 198.145.248.78)
That FM is available on-line - but I forget where! I have a downloaded copy of it that I would pass to Ken for posting on the site, or to anyone who wants it. I'll make one posting to a CC list, rather than individually sending it to the requestors. Send me email if you want a copy.
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 18:25:44 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.18.199.151)
The schools I went to did not teach deception as far as a basic operation goes.
The philosophy was that you give absolutely NO INDICATION WHATSOEVER that you are in the area.
The only exception was during Counter-Sniper Operations when bait or dummy positions were taught as part of the program.
As far as SOP's went, I did have a couple with my squad to be used after the engagement if you were being pursued. Again, stealth was the primary defense. One was to use Claymore mines with time fuze on them to add to the confusion.
We also tried to work in multiple teams. Either two teams firing simultaneously on a target which adds to the confusion and disorients them to your direction (which should be the case anyways) or one team fires and if pursued, the other would fire into their flank or rear after they had gone a ways.
Sometimes this created (at least in theory) the illusion of one sniper team who was all elusive and impossible to defeat.
Hope alls well.
How did things turn out with your motorized issue?
Jefe
Jefe <diabloazul01@hotmail.com>
Colombia - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 19:01:25 (ZULU) (your host address:
200.68.137.207)
Out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 20:29:51 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.214.53.39)
I shutter to bring this up again, but I got an e-mail from Leupold this afternoon. They said that the M3LR BDC Turret for the 168Gr in Yards was done and ready to go for $35 a copy. I'm thinking of getting one, but I'm not sure if this is the one Lito discussed in Jan or not. Anyone with insight please drop me an e-mail.
If these are the "new" turrets, happy days are fast approching :-)
Chris
"FatBoy"
Chris <hepkat0013@aol.com>
Gun Show this weekend :-)), Mid-Tenn, USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at
21:20:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.195.186)
Our 25mm conversion for the M82A1 is coming along nicely, had to
work out some bolt carrier velocity quirks. Shoots like a dream now. Kicks
a little more than the 82A1. Not as much as a bolt .50
Tony <50buildr@bellsouth.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Monday, June 18, 2001 at 21:58:19 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.214.117.78)