2.2 kliks (2,500 yds) in VN by Carlos Hathcock... he shot at a group of VC that went to get water every morning.  HE shot at them every morning for a few weeks, and finely rolled one.  He later admittted it was luck.  It was with a 50BMG.

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 00:25:13 (ZULU)

Helmut Kohl of Germany was in Israel, and the Israelis brought out a huge tray of locally-grown produce to demonstrate how they had made the desert bloom. Tomatoes, cauliflower, asparagus, etc. Beautiful stuff.

What did H. Kohl select from the tray to sample?

A fresh red chile the size of his index finger, and proceeded to bite off half of it and start chewing.

I missed about half of the subsequent close-ups and commentary, haven't laughed so hard in years.

Sorry, guys, I know this ain't Chile Country, but too many of you would appreciate that to let it go. Watch for a re-run tonight, maybe.

Wiping away more tears than Helmut Kohl,

Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, Chihuahua Norte, USA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 00:33:24 (ZULU)

I know this isn't "Chili Country" but I know that where you live you're definitely in chili country. I've bought more chilis in N.M (that had just been roasted) than I care to try to remember. They're great for making chili rellenos.

I didn't get in until late, so I didn't get to see Fox Report. I'm wondering what the BTU rating is on those Israeli peppers :D

Seriously, from a medical point of view, if a person, say a child, bit into a blazing hot pepper, the first thing that becomes compromised is his ability to breathe. Immediately, cut a raw potato into a scallop the size of his mouth (roughly) and about a 1/4-1/2" thick and make him suck on it and it'll remove the sting from the pepper. Learned that one from an elderly Hispanic gentleman here.

Jim:

Betcha didn't know that one ;)

Mark W (Jalapeno)

Mark W <sharps45@msn.com>
Jalapeno Country, Texas, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 01:16:02 (ZULU)

When neck sizing brass, how much of the neck needs to be sized?  All of it to the shoulder, half, one third???

How much jump from the case to the lands when loading 175 SMKs, if magazine length is no concern? I have a load that preforms well with an OAL of 2.80, and obviously no magazine issues, just wondering. Thanks guys

Dennis Muldrew <dmuldrew@swbell.net>
OP, KS, USA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 01:28:42 (ZULU)

Yo's in BIG trouble Dudeski.

Spellin' chille as chilli will get you a dozen 175SMK's by airmail, from Bruce Robinson, our o-fish-ull keeper of the light (in all matters regarding chille)!.

I know of what I speak!

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 02:12:17 (ZULU)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Subject: HERE'S TO ANN MARGARET

Neat story which is just a bit different from those of Jane Fonda.

Richard, (my husband), never really talked a lot about his time in

Vietnam other than he had been shot by a sniper. However, he had a rather grainy, 8x10 black & white photo he had taken at a USO show of Ann Margaret with Bob Hope in the background that was one of his treasures.

A few years ago, Ann Margaret was doing a book signing at a local

bookstore. Richard wanted to see if he could get her to sign the

treasured photo so he arrived at the bookstore at 12 o'clock for the 7:30 signing.

When I got there after work, the line went all the way around the

bookstore,circled the parking lot,and disappeared behind a parking

garage.. Before her appearance, bookstore employees announced that she would sign only her book and no memorabilia would be permitted. Richard was disappointed, but wanted to show her the photo and let her know how much those shows meant to lonely GI's so far from home.

Ann Margaret came out looking as beautiful as ever and, as 2nd in

line,it was soon Richard's turn. He presented the book for her signature and then took out the photo. When he did, there were many shouts from the employees that she would not sign it.

Richard said, "I understand. I just wanted her to see it."She took

one look at the photo, tears welled up in her eyes and she said, "This is one of my gentlemen from Viet Nam and I most certainly will sign his photo. I know what these men did for their country and I always have time for "my gentlemen". With that, she pulled Richard across the table and planted a big kiss on him. She then made quite a to do about the bravery of the young men she met over the years, how much she admired them,and how much she appreciated them. There weren't too many dry eyes among those close enough to hear. She then posed for pictures and acted as if he was the only one there.

Later at dinner, Richard was very quiet. When I asked if he'd like

to talk about it, my big strong husband broke down in tears. "That's the first time anyone ever thanked me for my time in the Army," he said.

Richard, like many others, came home to people who spit on him and

shouted ugly things at him. That night was a turning point for him. He walked a little straighter and, for the first time in years, was proud to have been a Vet.

I'll never forget Ann Margaret for her graciousness and how much

that small act of kindness meant to my husband. I now make it a point to say Thank You to every person I come across who served in our Armed Forces. Freedom does not come cheap and I am grateful for all those who have served their country.

AUTHOR UNKNOWN

Mark W <sharps45@msn.com>
Jalapeno Country, Texas, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 02:18:35 (ZULU)

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com >
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 02:22:10 (ZULU)

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com >
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 02:24:50 (ZULU)

          LITO ;

             APPARENTLY OUR MR HATHCOCK HAS A PROTEGE!!!

             THERE A LOT OF FOCUSED YOUNG LADS OUT THERE.

             I'II HAVE TO DIG ALITTLE MORE FOR "W5"

                                    macgregor  

MACGREGOR <brownc@kos.net>
BATTERSEA, ONTARIO, CANADA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 02:43:47 (ZULU)

I think I just heard them whistle by. HE missed! Well, what can you expect from New Mexico to Texas.

Where's the *^@#$%^$%^spell$#%&%$#$checker*%^$&%*%$when you need it. Oh well, chilli, chille...tomatoe, tom ah toe. Chilles will get your attention no matter how you spell them :-)

Surely someone out there has a B&L Tactical they want to get rid of...maybe a MkIV M3 6X?

Sarge:

Are you going to make the "F" class match at Raton come Sept.? Contact me offline if you are. I LOVE the Whittington Center and Raton. Home away from home........

Mark W

Mark W <sharps45@msn.com>
Jalapeno Country, Texas, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 02:59:32 (ZULU)

Robert French <rdftdf@inetone.net>
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 03:05:40 (ZULU)

La-POO-ah

-

MacGregor...

>"THERE A LOT OF FOCUSED YOUNG LADS OUT THERE"<

From Canadia??? Yo' gotta be kiddin!

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 03:29:16 (ZULU)

Sarge - the "Other New Mexican"

Sarge <sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 03:38:44 (ZULU)

No Prob....exchanged some nice emails with Mark. Got a great story from him.

He is, after all, in Baja Oklahoma, so his spelling is to be forgiven.

Only reason I got lito's attention was sending him Dixon Red!

Hell, most of the people in the US can't even find NM on a map, much less spell chile.

175's missed due to fierce NM springtime wind, NOT (as Ken would have you believe) due to the 20" bbl.

Y'all take care, and hurry up and pay for those raffle tickets so George can send me my new stick!

Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 04:01:45 (ZULU)

whoooooo dawgy... picked up and processed a butt load of mail and payments today. We're at:  171 tix paid, 92 unpaid...

We're heading there fast folks...

thanks for getting on top of this hawgs,

Ken :)

Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nice and cool, Northern Va., USA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 04:02:03 (ZULU)

Of course, I expect to win the raffle ...

William M. <elmerfudd3000@yahoo.com>
Birmingham, AL, USA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 04:10:57 (ZULU)

If'n ya win, maybe George can cut it down to 20", and then thread the barrel and the "Bobbet" section, that you'll have lopped off, so when you come to your senses you can screw it back on. Just keep it in a glass out back till ya need it.... ;)) (away from the chili plants)

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
What's in a name? That which we call VarGet by any other name would smell as sweet !!!!, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 04:12:01 (ZULU)

Sarge - the "Other New Mexican"<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Ahh, you did it too Sarge...it's CHILES. LOL.I've had some four alarm chili/w jalapenos that sure was (burp) 100% effective. OUT-GOING!!!

That's a nasty thought though....being carpet-bombed by chili (the meat stuff). A few Pork-Fuel Air bombs over Afghanistan would make the whole country unholy...right?

Mark W

Mark W <sharps45@msn.com>
Chili and Jalapenos (but no beans please...makes for a DEADLY GAS), Texas, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 04:24:03 (ZULU)

Litosan'........Tabasco, they have been out of business for a long time, they just didn't know it.....;)

Tom S, I found the Nosler J4's to not be as good as quality in mfgr as Sierra's( IMHO).....I was truly surprised.....the jacket  is VERY soft, and the heels seemed to be knicked, or dented even packaged in 250 count boxes.Dented heels are a NO NO......:(

Two Shoes

Dos Zap

Glockamolie <Glockamolie@cs.com>
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 04:43:23 (ZULU)

Where in the Hell can I get some G96 gun oil. My stash is running low, none of the local stores carry it anymore, and it doesn't seem to appear in any of the catalogs I keep around.

Also - Any idea where I can get gen-u-whine .303 British Mk7 ammo. I just finished cleaning up an original Enfield No.4 Mk1(T) sniper rifle that was built at BSA and made into a sniper at Holland & Holland. The range drum (elevation turret to us Yanks) is calibrated for this ammo, 0-1000yds in less than one turn. Leupold sure wasn't first;-) . I'd sure appreciate it if any of youse guys could help me out.

TIA,  ALAN

ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, CO, USA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 05:10:06 (ZULU)

Alan and other, you can get it directly from the source at:

http://www.g96.com/

Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 06:15:55 (ZULU)

You guys going to the F Class match in Raton. Be on the look out for a 75 yr old guy named JJ Conway. If you can get squaded with him jump at it. I don't know how they squad there, but this guy is the gedi master. Even with cateracts in his eyes. Talked to him the other night and he will be there. Not sure what he is going to shoot, other than a perfect score.

On Lapua, I just like saying the name, Laa-poooo-ahhhh.

Got my son's scope in today and should get the rings and base on Monday and will test the 155 Secnars in it. I will be limited to 300 yrds but should be a valid test any way. Yes not talk about twists. I just wanna see what will happen. I will shoot some 175's for comparison.

And Ken my dealer is waiting on stand by so you guys hurry up so Ken can send my gun.

Dirty Steve, Out

Steve Dickerson <ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 06:23:50 (ZULU)

Lapua Brass 308 Winchester Box of 100 available for $31.99

Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 06:46:32 (ZULU)

Durand Wilson <wilsondl@fmctc.com>
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 07:28:32 (ZULU)

 The duty roster has been designated (by me) as an area of observation.

 Recommend you team up and notify each other as activity of interest appears. Targets of various value may appear ;)

 Engage as you see fit.

 Out.

ken hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
XXXXXXX, XXXXXX, U.S.A - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 12:43:10 (ZULU)

What do you mean?

Sorry if I seem ignorant.

Durand,

Go to ebay. You can get the Kevlars there for about $60.

Semper Primus!

Mark <beowulf4_hire@hotmail.com>
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 13:14:17 (ZULU)

http://www.horusvision.com/index.cfm

I ran across this on Snipers Paradise website.  Some sort of new super duper ranging reticle which can be retrofit to your existing scope or just buy their scope with it.

Anybody have any intel on it?

Moe

Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, US of A - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 13:55:27 (ZULU)

I would imagine that unless the underlying scope is solid (Loopie, etc.) that the ranging system is moot.  

Interesting thread.  Let's see what Cat-whacker haz to say.

Duman <steve_duey@hp.com>
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 14:32:00 (ZULU)

We've talked about the Horus reticle a few times... a lot about a year ago (search the archives for "Horus"... HA! ;))

It's not "NEW"... it's been around for quite a while, but it has NEVER caught on.  It's is considered a cluttered mess, and you need their program to play it, it's a LOTTA WORKIE to set it up for your stick, and it is iffy in usefulness.

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 14:34:17 (ZULU)

We use propylene glycol for those so unwise as to warrant the liberal application of pepper spray from the local constabulary...that is of course, if the unfortunate individual has the foresight to realize that medics are to be treated with respect if you want LESS pain ; )

Jim Mitchell <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 15:22:34 (ZULU)

Those of you that are use to getting periodic e-mails from me, I sent one yesterday.  It has/had an attachment and is completely safe.  It is FUNNY and you should take a look.  Just wanted to give you the heads up.

Dropped the Savage off last night to be bedded.  This will be the final step for this rifle (I hope).

'lito,

When are you going to test the M118LR and post your findings?

S/F

Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
VA, USA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 15:49:40 (ZULU)

Its been going on for about six months.  Tasco has been in financial trouble and looking for a buyer.  They had three "for sure" deals fall through and now the bank has them.  The last buyer was Meade telescopes and it looked like it was going to work but it did not, they are definitely out of business for sure.  Here's what will happen.  A liquidation company that the bank hires along with the current tasco employs will liquidate the assets, but there's not anything exciting in their inventory.  Then the rights to the registered trade mark Tasco will be sold and someone like Bushnell or ATK will buy it because it is an established name.  Production and exclusivity on the SS will not change as our deal has been with the manufacturer all the time.  Most people will never know anything happened, it will be like when Redfield or Weaver went under.  The name will be back so fast with different products behind it that your average Joe won't know a thang.

So as Chris has said the SS series WILL still be available - so guys the debate comtinues!

Sarge

Sarge <sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 16:06:41 (ZULU)

Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
SJ, CA, USA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 17:19:20 (ZULU)

In the past three or four weeks I've gotten e-mails from Dave Lawang, Gooch, and Tactical Intervention Specialists (Mike Miller). They had the correct names and the correct e-mail addresses, but all three contained viruses! Now I know these guys didn't send them so some asshole without a life, is gettin all "stiffy" off of this.

Just wanted to warn you guys in case you get something hinky from someone who stole one of our names and addresses.

danny reever <dreever@supernet.com>
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 17:47:39 (ZULU)

HORUS:  Cluttered mess as 'lito says.  Can't imagine being able to use that reticle at night.  Especially for quick, close, police stuff.  Hard to beat a duplex or duplex with dots for our simple gigs.

Word I got was, the Canadians made the 2400 + shot.  Also a 1700 yarder.  Using a McMillan Fifty.  They were Princess Patricia's Light Inf. and were backing up the US 101st ABN.  101st wants to give them all Bronze Stars.  Anti-gun Canada ain't too cool on the idea though.

Hope you guys are all okay.

Brian

brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 18:56:11 (ZULU)

1.B. Chile is best used to prepare chili, see 1.A.

1.C. Dixons Red is the best red on the market, see 1.B.

2.A. Bill Rogers, however humorous he can be (and for that I am thankful), has an IQ of significantly higher than average.

2.B. Mr. Rogers has vast experience, a wealth to be learned from!

3.A. Tascos are trash. If I hadn't been able to get a return-for-refund on mine, I would have thrown it in the garbage. Once bitten, twice shy.

4.A. RCBS and Hornady powder throwers can be problematic, and require fitting.

4.B. RCBS stands behind their products well, and will fix what isn't right.

4.C. When RCBS or Hornady powder throwers are correctly fitted, they can be wonderful to work with.

5.A. Progressive presses are worth-while instruments for the high volume shooter.

5.B. As said before, a quality progressive press will produce quality rounds, rifle or pistol.

6.A. In the archives, I came across something from Mr. Gooch about rotating about a fixed point (forehead on a baseball bat), after consuming adult beverages. Humor is still alive!

7.A. I'm looking forward to seeing who wins that lovely rifle!

Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 19:02:44 (ZULU)

Okay so I gots another highpower question to "axe".  I decided to go with the Rock River National Match lower (have John Holliger tune it), and the Holliger RRA "upgraded" upper.  Should shoot more betterer than I could (not that hard to do), and last a long time and be under a grand.  Now the question that'll really frost many a posterior....What about moly (yes I said it....MOLY) for highpower?  I know, I know don't worry.  That stuff never has or will touch my "tactical" riffles.  But, in highpower where you get spotter rounds etc. doesn't it have a little more merit?  At least that's what I've heard (and I know you can't believe everything you hear..."Elvis is dead"...yeah whatever buddy....;)) ).  I don't handload yet, but I was probably going to lean towards the Black-Hills molyed (not sure though) 75 or 77 grainers.  So any of youse Hogs that do any highpower shootin', please help me out. I'm new to it and I'd like to "do it right" the first time.

Thanks again,

Rich S

Rich S. <RS1441@aol.com>
MD, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 19:12:52 (ZULU)

The weather (tempreture wise) is nice, but we're getting rain almost every day (except the time I'm at work :((

I have 7 riffles stacked at the door with a crate of ammo (come on back, DCS HA!, yo' Momma!), just waiting to go to the range. Probably next week.  As soon as I shoot it, I WILL post the results.

-

Sarge...

>"so guys the debate continues!"<

OK... Tabasco's SUCK, There ya' go! ;))

For those that keep defending Tabasco, cuz "one of them" works, just keep in mind this... Tasco has been around for 40+ years, and has gone broke, IN SPITE of next to nuthin' labor ($1 a day) and manufacturing costs in China... Is Lupita, or Burris going broke (while paying US labor rates, manufacturing costs, and US taxes, and following EPA laws)... not hardly.

So you think there's somfin' OK with Tabascos... not me.  If you can make a product with $1 a day labor, and cheap factorys, and no US taxes, and still can't make it, you have a assed sorry product.

-

Brian... I heard that too...  I think we talked about here about two or three months ago.  They (the guys from Canadia) ain't all that bad ;))

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 20:05:34 (ZULU)

I bought a dual dove tail unertl base and rings combo from this company for 100.00$

They come with the rings installed on the base and are trued and don ot need to be lapped.

I mounted on my stick, centered scope before mounting to rifle, then bore sighted. It was 1.5 moa low and 2moa right  pretty damn close  if you ask me.  The fit and finish are great.

  I did not have enough clearance between objective lens and #7 contour barrel I just got.  John told me what I needed and is gonna send me another one.

Easy guy to work with who stands behind his product.    Not to mention a lot less money that badgers or lupy mk4s.  The marine corps uses this mounting system ,if I am not mistaken and if I am I am shure someone will let me know, It  is very heavy duty and has few parts to fail like bolts or nuts. I am happy with mine.

JIM ANDERSON <OCSO245@HOTMAIL.COM>
OKC, OK, USA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 21:43:08 (ZULU)

This is the only place I post, and I've been getting some weird e-mails.  Besides every one in Nigeria wanting to make me a billionaire, and cuties by the score love-me-no-shit and want me to visit their very personal websites, I've been getting some very suspicious e-mails that contain no text at all.  They take a long time to load and there's nothing in them.  Can't say I care for the looks of that.  

Another contains the following:

Hello,This is a very new game

This game is my first work.

You're the first player.

I hope you would like it.

Has anyone else around here been getting any of this?

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 21:53:54 (ZULU)

Welcome back.  Have missed your postings.  My Norton anti-virus program has been working overtime lately.  Lots of goo-goo birds loose out there!!!

Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The soggy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 22:09:40 (ZULU)

I have one of John's steel floorplates and it's very nice. He is a good guy to do business with.

Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 22:12:21 (ZULU)

CDC...

Welcome back too (this IS a roach motel... nobody ever REALLY leaves) ;))

It's too late for the Billions.  Me and Bruce Robinson already took the money, and now were trying to find a place to wash it.  Bruce gave me a few million to wash, and I threw it in the washing machine with a cup of Tide, and all the ink came off (I mean how was I to know????).

Now I'm thinkin' "Dry Cleaners"... ya' think ;))

I also get the empty emails (about 8 a day, and got that thing about the new game, with nothin' in it.

It gets old real fast.

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Friday, May 17, 2002, at 23:00:34 (ZULU)

out

G.W

Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Friday, May 17, 2002, at 23:50:07 (ZULU)

I have been getting the Nigerian / Congo / South African "We want to put $25 Million in you bank account" type emails about once a week now.

I don't even open them.

Sniff

Sniff <akh805@actrix.co.nz>
Auckland, New Zealand - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 00:04:06 (ZULU)

US Tactical Supply.  GOt 5 in for some test systems.  GOOD TO GO! $225.00

http://www.ustacticalsupply.com/cases.shtml

Out

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Click on my name to visit www.goochtraining.com - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 00:23:29 (ZULU)

Well, hawgs, I have accomplished one of my long-term goals.  Last week I shot my AR in the Navy East Coast Rifle and Pistol Championships and won 1st Gold in the Atlantic Fleet Excellence-in-Competition service rifle leg match for 10 more points to Distinguished Rifleman.  Tuesday I shot in the All-Navy EIC and won 3rd Gold.  Total of 34 points and I have "Legged out" for the US Army Distinguished Rifleman's Gold Badge.

I started in February of 1999, and it's taken:

15 leg matches (three at Camp Perry);

4,191 rounds of 5.56mm Match (moly handloads and raw Navy 77 grain Mark 262);

four triggers (Armalite to Bushmaster, Bushmaster to Stoner, and finally a Jewell);

two barrels (a stainless Douglas 1-8 that burned out in 2400 rounds, resulting in a wasted 2001 season.  Currently shooting an outstanding Krieger chro-mo 1-8 four-groove);

two sights (Armalite 1/4 to 1/2 MOA, and finally an Accuracy Speaks 1/2).

All my points are military (All-Navy Silver 2000; LANTFLEET Bronze 2001; LANTFLEET Gold 2002; All-Navy Gold 2002).

Next goal:  President's Hundred!

Am setting up an AR-10T (24-inch Walther barrel) for use as a 1,000 yard scoped rifle.  Haven't decided whether or not to use my B&L 10X Tac or a new M3LR.  Has a GG&G 20 degree sloped rail.  Currently has a Bushmaster trigger (yech) with a Jewell coming.

Sinister Dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
Fayetteville, NC, - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 01:39:59 (ZULU)

Well..., it breaks my heart to leave you guys, but my bride & I depart for the Whittington Center for 9 days in the morning.  No match, just goin' ta play.  When is the match in Aug/Sept?

Save my new Riffle fer me and I'll claim it when I get back.

Larry

Larry J. Porter <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, US of A - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 01:50:07 (ZULU)

Now that you have whooped up on those rookies, you get to take the Boltster on at Butner in June and July. Quake in your boots son! This blind, balding, old fart is after your title!

Early to bed tonight. Have a DMAT camporee tomorrow.

Bolt out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 01:57:15 (ZULU)

Good Luck on the President's Hundred.  I  hope to start again for the President's Hundred later this summer.  Started once back in the early 90's but marriage, going back to college, and work gave me enough excuses to stop shooting in the local Service Rifle matches.  I hope to shoot in July.  I have already missed the April and May matches and I will out of town on business in June.  Sounds like a familiar scenario, hope I change it this time.

How many rounds do you have through the Krieger barrel.  I am looking at their barrels as a replacement for my current barrel next winter.  I had one of their barrels back in the early 90's but it went with my rifle when I sold it.  I had about 1000 rounds through it and it shot great from beginning to end.

Congrats again.

Keith

Keith <keith37f20@excite.com>
North Central, WV, USA - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 02:46:37 (ZULU)

Good job!!

One question.  Moly in a 223?  What is the advantage you get at comps? Thanks.

Hank <robahenry@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 02:48:30 (ZULU)

Dozen Easton aluminum arrows: $60

Dozen broad heads: $35

Getting an arrow in the back of your skull: PRICELESS!!!!!!!!

Check this out!!!

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=6f4bd57a1fa261262e2070e0e0f2a9b5&threadid=1493&highlight=broadhead

Time for bed, Bolt out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 04:00:53 (ZULU)

I will offer that B&L a good home if you decide to not use it - LOL. Be quiet Cat Shooter ;))

ken hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
nokesville, va, U.S.A - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 04:37:25 (ZULU)

CDC; I got 42 messages Thursday that fit the description you mentioned. These viruses  now steal your adr and send messages to other people with your name on it. That Bogus Game deal must be doing something sinister but I don't know what.  The African schemes are the only legitimate ones. I haven't written a check on them yet but I'm sure the money is there. Would a African Prince lie to you?

I know you... you're just a old fraidie cat!  

You will get a message that will say it will eliminate your getting those Virus messages if you will disable your Antivirus and let it come in because you're anti virus "mistakes it for a Virus"..ad it may look like it comes from someone you know.  This stuff must be coming direct from Ben Laudin himself....All this stuff is choking the net with junk messages and it spreads like a chain letter that you can't stop eventually it should bring the net down or make it too slow to use due to the traffic.  The virus won't show up as being on your computer and it's not but people you know get bogus stuff from you as it also steals your files and sends them all over.

Welcome to paradise lost!

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com >
- Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 05:39:29 (ZULU)

Nine days at Whittington? Wished I was there right now. NRA heaven as far as I'm concerned. Here's the link for the upcoming "F" class match at the Center:

http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/spirit02.html

Sinister Dave,

Congratulations MR....SINISTER DAVE. PSSST, disregard Kens offer. I've got a better one for your B&L Tactical. No......wait...disregard that. He might throw my riffle raffle winning numbers out the door. We'll talk later....

Bolt,

DAMN, that's got to hurt. I can only imagine what kind of broadhead was on the end of that shaft. Used to bow hunt myself. I've seen what those things can do. Maybe MedicJim can fill us in on the dialogue that probably took place between the medic and the patient. I'm more curious as to who took the picture, the bow hunters friend (that shot him) or the medics partner? I would've loved to have heard the report to the receiving hospital from the ambulance.

Lito,

I'm growing some CHILLES just for YOU. They're crossed between a habanero, jalapeno, serrano and chille piquing. I'm gonna call it "pluto" (short for plutonium). BTUs will be measured in "mega"..tons.

Dirty Steve,

>>>>>>>>>You guys going to the F Class match in Raton. Be on the look out for a 75 yr old guy named JJ Conway. If you can get squaded with him jump at it. I don't know how they squad there, but this guy is the gedi master.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

It will be good to finally meet the Gedi Master. May the (.308) force be with us. (thanks Steve I will)

Mark Vader Skywalker

Mark W <sharps45@msn.com>
Chili and Jalapenos (but no beans please...makes for a DEADLY GAS), Texas, - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 06:03:37 (ZULU)

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/17/ret.seal.death/index.html

Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
SJ, CA, USA - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 09:26:11 (ZULU)

The horus reticle was invented in 1728, by Chief Erik Poophawk,a Viking / Indian . who decided that if he left the branches on the christmas tree he was making a bow out of, he would have lots of aiming points which would enable him to better aim off for wind/range  deflection when trying to shoot animals with his bow, the  branches also provided camoflage to help confuse his prey. Great theory.The name Horus comes from the Viking name for wallruss, which is what Erik's brother was shouting trying to warn Erik of the wallruss that was about to flatten Erik, who was busy checking his xmastree-master to verify exactly which twig on which branch he needed as an aiming point for a range of 25 yards in a 30mph wind on a 1 ton Bull Wallruss with a kill zone of 2 feet. It was Poor Eriks last hunt, the Wallruss flattened him. From that day on, the rest of the tribe decided to follow the KISS principle and abandoned the Christmas tree bow for hunting purposes. Since then to commemorate Erik's untimely death, once a year, on the aniversary of that fatefull day, the braves of the tribe get together for some target practice and on this day only do they shoot with christmas tree bows, at life size wallruss targets made out of straw, they take their time, selecting the right twig on the right branch, and they can achieve some amaizing hits and range estimation using the system.The tribal chant when any one misses a target on this day is " Horus"! "Horus"!

A descendant of that tribe with a flaire for modern technology, has apparently come up with a way of fitting the christmas tree bow into a telescopic sight.

Now all we have to do is find some one called Erik who is willing to hunt wallruss with a rifle and scope fitted with this reticle. Will he make the shot in time? or will he be flattened by a Bull Wallruss? "Horus"! "Horus"!

ok I'm full of crap, but in a comedy mood,

Chris, you need to ask Jon Beardsley about them sheep, he's Welsh, could the right word be Beardsleyality?? come on Jon, tell us about them sheep and wellie's !! and then i'll tell you all about your new Swarovski spotting scope thats sat in my car awaiting the post-office to open, niiiccceee nice..

Marco, try some Balistic tip bullets in that Sako of yours for hunting Roe Deer, they are great and are usualy accurate, and i will make one of them sako bipods fit my AICS, square peg- round hole.. no problem.

No news from S&B on delivery dates and prices for new PMII scopes yet.

I'll reply to all emails tommorow, Im busy at work with shift plans and training.

Pete L

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
- Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 11:50:20 (ZULU)

Welcome to the fold... you're as crazy as some of the rest of us.  I loved the Horus history.

;)))))))))

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 12:12:41 (ZULU)

Your killing me with your Horus/xmastree Master story. Glad to see your back.

TonyM

tam308 <tam308@aol.com>
US of A!!!!!!!! - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 12:16:42 (ZULU)

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com >
- Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 12:57:10 (ZULU)

Lito,

Some additional info to my earlier plea for help.  I have now shot 11 of those 'hot' 180gr rounds.  The last 4 are now not showing any sign of ejector marks, any galling of the base and the primers have more rounded edges.  All the ammo was loaded at the same time with the same batch of powder, same batch of Fed. large rifle magnum match primers and all the cases are weighed to +/- 1 grain.  The ambient air temperature was higher for at least 2 of the last 4 rounds than when I initially tested the batch and got the readings of 3200fps and the pressure signs.  I haven't chronoed the ammo again to see if velocity has dropped as well.  The barrel has now had about 100 rounds through it, could the reduction in pressure be something to do with break-in?  Cleaning has also become incredibly easy.  I would still appreciate any comments or suggestions (I know you are still waiting to get to the range first).

Cheers

Jon

Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 13:40:36 (ZULU)

I am back in Europe and have been reading Duty Roster's last 5 months during the last few days.

Lapua 155 Scenar's seem to be getting more popular. A year ago nobody believed what I wrote about 2900-3000 fps out of regular 24" barrels with a BC higher than SMK 175's. Anyway quite an itneresting bullet. I have heard reports about the jacket thickness. On compressed loads the bullet jacket may become deformed if the load powder is packed too tightly. The bullet is at its best when used with moly (hgihest speed etc.) but can be used also without moly. I would prefer no moly.

The "almost 300 Win Mag" 308 Win load from Lapua was developed for originally for UK military snipers. The load has a 170 grain Lock Base FMJ bullet (BC .525 according to Lapua) that is pushed around 2800 fps out of the long barrel of AI sniper rifle. The powder is according to rumours a hefty dose of VV N-150 but this is justa rumour. The charge is higher than what Vihtavuori or Lapua reloading manuals give as max for 308 Win so I will not mention it as it is anyway third hand information.

IOR vs Badger.

My understanding is that Badger refined Leupold Mark4 rings and IOR then copied the general style. Might be wrong, though. Badgers rule in this style.

Sako TRG-21 vs TRG-22 and TRG-41 and TRG-42.

TRG-21/41 rifles were developed by Sako in early nineties. These rifles were extremly accurate target rifles are were offered for sale to several European and Middle-East militaries. Unfortunately the design was not fully developed for harsh military use.

The TRG-21 was offered only in 308 and it could be ordered with either stainless or cromy moly barrel. Stainless cost 80 USD more in Finland. Early TRG-41 in caliber 338 Lapua Magnum used only stainless barrels but later on cromy moly become available. TRG41 has been offered also in 300 Win Mag and in very limited amounts in 6.5X55 Swedish for some military shooting competitors.

After several defeats, some in put from Finnish reservists and a new requirement list from Finnish Defense Forces Sako developed a rifle called TRG-42 in 338 Lapua Magnum. That rifle is deployed by FDF as we speak. Differences compared to the old model are at least the following:

The firing pin and firing pin assembly can be maintained better. In the old model the assembly was a closed unit that could not be disassembled on the field without extra tools. Now it is better in the field.

The muzzle brake is now threaded to the barrel. On TRG-41 it was just slipped over the barrel with a special pressure band torqued tight to keep it in place. The new muzzle brake is also more effective than the earlier one.

The stock on TRG-42 is modified to fit the shooter better and now a jammed magazine can be ripped out of the rifle with force if needed and it can be done with gloves on. In earlier models a jammed magazine had to be pried out with a screwdriver or similar tool.

The stock is now green in military version but can be ordered also in black.

New bipod was developed. In my humble opinion it is better than Harris, P-H. Versa-Pod or any other bipod I have seen. It is made of steel and it can take any abuse.

The magazine catch has now extra "dirt space" machined behind it so that the lever is not easily jammed in the closed position. In earlier models it is possible that dirt jams the release lever so that the magazibne can not be taken out of the rifle.

The external finish is parkerizing. Earlier it was a shiny bluing.

There are probably more smaller refinements but these cover most of it. All TRG-42 modifications can be found also on TRG-22. The barrel on the military model is cormy moly because FDF specified a cromy moly barrel. TRG-42 can be bought also with shiny bluing, stainless barrel and with either green or black stock furniture.

The FDF version has also a special Sako-made sloped scope attachment system that is developed for a dedicated Zeiss 3-12X50 Mil scope that was manufactured in a limited production run for FDF. For example the tube is 30 mm except on the area close to the adjustment towers were it is widened to apprx. 34-36mm. It is NOT a version of the civilian 3-12X50 Zeiss. It has a lighted reticle and the BDC has both meters on it and it can be used with 0.2 mil-radian adjustments. These are in MOA world 2/3 MOA. Confusing for people licing in inch/yard system but not so for people used to live in metric system.

BTW Beretta owned Sako is now charging the exactly same outrageous prices for Sako rifles in Finland as in the USA. Custom gun smiths have been having a field day for the last year or so as Sako can not really compete with custom smiths quality but the cost is the same. For example a TRG-42 list price is 3000 Euros which is 2700 USD. I can order almost TWO custom rifles with that price where everything including action, trigger and barrel has been made from scracth.

Looks like Sako/Beretta does not want to sell to Finns anymore. Keep in mind that the high cost of European rifles in the USA are caused also by the high import duties. We do not have import duties on stuff we make here in Filnad but still Beretta charges these outrageous prices locally.

Take care !

Hexa

Hexa <juhola@luukku.com>
- Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 14:39:14 (ZULU)

A chance at a Brownells Glass Bedding kit has appeared.  Engage as you wish. Not sure when it will go away....

1. Send an email to:  scfreebee@aspiringtech.net

(you can click on the email below to get there as well).

2. I will have the Major pick a number from 1 to the number of emails I receive. The winner will be the person's email that matches the number she picks.

ken hunter <scfreebee@aspiringtech.net>
nokesville, va, U.S.A - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 15:42:55 (ZULU)

Gooch and others have you ever actually used a drag bag during training or on a mission?  

I have the eagle drage bag with backpack straps.  It seems like it would be useful at times and could double as a ground mat in cold/wet environments.  Also Eagle has external pouches that can be attached to the case to hold spotting scope and binoculars.

Nicholas Young <ynicholas1@qwest.net>
SLC, UT, USA - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 17:17:02 (ZULU)

Nicholas - Would not ever use a drag bag.  Too much crap to carry now.  Drag bags give people away by its snagging and catching and since it is another large pice of equipment to be seen by the enemy.

Horus Vision aka Horrid Vision - Would not even attempt that scope.  We have the CD on it and even that is a pain to look at.  Add that you must shoot the longer ranges at the bottom of the scope, that the leads and wind holds will too short to give enough at the longer ranges.  Lions and Tigers, and Bears O' MY!

Well enough stirring for now,  Will go throught he article more minutely and will post anything that I disagree with, if there is interest.

Hold Hard Guys and HAVE FUN!!!

Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 19:19:47 (ZULU)

There is an interest...

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
What's in a name? That which we call VarGet by any other name would smell as sweet !!!!, - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 19:42:33 (ZULU)

Hey guys.  I'm giving a 2 for 1 deal on my courses till the end of the year.  You pay for 1 tuition and bring a buddy for free.

Out here.

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Click on my name to visit www.goochtraining.com - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 21:37:03 (ZULU)

 A Leupold Wind River spotting scope has appeared as a target of opportunity in the current freebee giveaway

That means - that two picks will be made - one for the glass bedding kit, one for the Leupold Spotting scope.

Out.

ken hunter <scfreebee@aspiringtech.net>
nokesville, va, U.S.A - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 21:57:48 (ZULU)

Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
- Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 22:35:40 (ZULU)

I'm really interested in the field of sniping and am looking into becoming one. Now, I'm not inlisted, nor have any experience with hunting, or even firing a gun(Sad, yes.). But the mental and tactical parts of the field really appeal to me.

I think I understand the role, and difficulty of becoming a sniper, and surviving as one. But it seems like the right place for me, if I can make it that far.

So anyway I've been studying the field, reading up, so on. But that can only take me so far.  Like I said, I've never been hunting, fired any form of rifle, let alone a gun. I have no fear of guns or anything like that, just never got any contact. So I'm here to talk to you gentlemen and ask for something in the ways of mentoring as I get into shooting and the field in general.

I just have a lot of questions that can't all be answered by books basicly. Say, What would be a good starter rifle to learn on? What kind of places can I learn to fire it on/at?(Totally clueless when it comes to guns and the rules.). Made some friends to go hunting with, how can I gain some skills as a shooter and sniper doing that?  

I'm sure an ungodly amount of questions will come in time. Just need some people to talk to who know the field =]. So if you can spare some time, help a wannabe out.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Sil.

P.S. Forgot, I do plan to inlist in the marines when the time comes. And sorry for rambling on.

Percival <reddyman68@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 22:44:31 (ZULU)

As far as drag bags on missions,

We had the eagle bags, we'd use the eagle to move weapon ans gear to a staging area, once there, we'd strip down to our "fighting load", and use a scabbard style drag bag for the stalk. The big mamma-jamma drag bags aren't practical for a long stalk, too bulky. Tony M found that Desert Specialties makes a great scabbard style bag for about $50.

Later Hogs, have a Radio Instrument simulator on Monday, they suck, but flying for the Corps is better than beating brush in NTA any day

Semper Fi

Kush out

Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
Pensacola, Lower Alabama, - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 22:44:49 (ZULU)

Glockamolie <Glockamolie@cs.com>
- Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 23:40:01 (ZULU)

Rickster... find the errors, and send them to Marius, so the orignal copy can be corrected, otherwise the bad data will go down in history, and get passed on AGAIN to others.

-

Jon Beardsley...

You'll have to remind me on the loads you are refering to (cronic CRS).

I think you probably pulled the trigger harder on the first loads ;).

-

Hexa...

I didn't believe you then, I'm a true believer now.

-

"Sil"... how old are you?

And if you have never shot a gun, why are thinking of becoming a "Sniper".  That's like saying you have never driven a car, but next year you want to be an indy driver???

There are much better ways of making a living... as a sniper, you will probably never own a NEW car or any kind of house, and it ain't gonna impress the chickies very much.

I would suggest you talk to a Marine recruter, he will answer all your questions.

-

Ken... can I get in on the Glassing kit deal ;))

-

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 23:55:42 (ZULU)

Not having fired a gun does hinder me, but I don't believe too greatly. I can learn. If I can't, I forget about it, it wasn't ment to be. But it seems the field only starts with a great shot.

And I relise "success" won't come from that lifestyle. But that's fine with me, I always liked things simpler.

Looking for more of someone to chit-chat with here and there rather than a recruiter.

It just seems like the career for me. I don't know, I'm not very good at describing things, maybe if you asked different questions.

Percival <reddyman68@hotmail.com>
- Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 01:39:18 (ZULU)

Thanks!

William M. <elmerfudd3000@yahoo.com>
Birmingham, AL, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 01:46:16 (ZULU)

Today I completed the first portion of my reconnaissance of new training areas here on the Island of Maui.

Dressed in a Hawaiian shirt, shorts and Wayfarers to blend in with the locals I rode north along route 30 from my base camp in Wailea.  I kept my speed below the local limits so that I wouldn’t draw the attention of the local Gendarmes.  Using a Blue Harley Davidson Fatboy for transportation I was able to slip through unnoticed.

The village of Lahaina is strategically located on the Northwest portion of the island along the straits of Molokai.  I noticed that many of the village women to be fit and dressed for the hot weather.  I don’t think they noticed me.

Pressing on I reconnoitered the extreme Northern reaches of the island and found many suitable training locations.  The terrain is rugged to say the least but fresh water is available from many of the waterfalls and local streams.  The vegetation is tropical in places but becomes sparse at higher elevations.

To protect my cover as a tourist I’ve been forced to eat and drink with the locals and pretend to be having fun.  I hope I can hold up.

I will continue this dangerous mission tomorrow and report back.

out

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 02:53:25 (ZULU)

What are you going to use the .22 for?  Savage and Marlin both have very nice .22s.  If you want a bit more punch you could look at getting a .22WMR.  I can't comment much on the terminal balistics between the HP and solid. Although, Rem came out with a .22WMR that uses a a polymer tipped bullet that is supposed to give excellent terminal ballistics.

Nick

Nick Anzano <nanzano@mindspring.com>
- Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 02:55:42 (ZULU)

You're taking WAY to many dangerous assignments.  Listen, the next time you have something like this come up, I'll volunteer to take your place.

Or maybe you need an assistant?

Watch your back dude  -- who knows what they have hidden under those grass skirts :)))).

Nick

Nick Anzano <nanzano@mindspring.com>
- Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 03:01:25 (ZULU)

Kevin On The Blue Harley Fatboy - you really know how to torque us stay-at-homes, don't ya?  :-))  Geez, first you go get a new office down here in The Land of Hurricanes and now you're playing around in The Land of Volcanoes!  Say "Hi" to Magnum for us!

Moe

Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, US of A - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 04:03:00 (ZULU)

19MAY02

0330 ZULU

Intel Report:

..............

The neighboring island of Lanai is inhabited by scantily clad women that partake of intoxicating local bevarages.  Due to the potential threat level that may be encountered in this sector it should be entered only if absolutely necessary.

If infil into this sector is necessay ensure covert alias identity is maintained at all cost.  Protection will have to be acquired locally if not part of mobilization gear.  Suggested local source: convience store.

All sit reps provided to the DR will be given highest possible security classification and all persons viewing sit reps will disavow all knowledge of any operations in this sector.

During last recon of that area, no sheepies identified.  A few goats were sighted.

End

.........

Seriously, I hope you enjoy yourself.  If you get a chance go to the top of the volcano and watch the sunrise.  An unforgetable experience.

It was good to shot with you and Andy again.

..........

Sil

I am not a sniper but after lurking here for a few years I think you will find that not very many of the folks on the roster are going to want to "chit-chat" with you unless you answer them when they ask you a straight-foward question.  Lito (aka Catshooter) asked you how old you were and you didn't answer him.  You must be at least 18 years old to be on the roster.  If you are 18 you should make sure you have read the "Warning to Minors and Militants"  and "Good Reading for Newbies and Old Salts" then read the Archives.  After you have done that, then decide if you want to ask the types of questions you are asking of the snipers on this page.  If you are not 18 or older you should leave this site.

Keith

Keith <keith37f20@excite.com>
North Central, WV, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 04:03:48 (ZULU)

I forgot to say that my eagle drag bag is the new one that folds out into a shooting mat.  

How exactly is a drag bag properly imployed?  In my mind there are a few senerios that stick out, like it would be useful if you also had a short range rifle like an M16 while stalking, especially if you are heavy rifle sniping with a 50 cal (windrunner comes to mind).

It also makes a lot of sense to hide the bag when you enter enemy territory as you wouldn't want to be caught with your rifle in your bag.

Police snipers likely have the most use for a drag bag/shooting mat.

Using a drag bag will interfear with your ruck.

I don't know what to think about drag bags, but I really like mine, very comfortable to shoot off of.  :D

Nicholas Young <ynicholas1@qwest.net>
SLC, UT, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 05:02:10 (ZULU)

Bolt, lever, semi-auto or pump?

Maybe single shot? Break action?

How much accuracy do you desire?

Quality level - from excellent to real poor.

How many bucks are you ready to part with? Determines most of the above. What can you get away with ;-)

Full size, kids size, or what?

HP or solid bullet? Depends on what you're shooting, pests, small game or targets? Determine that, then buy a box of each of the decent ammo that is available to you and sort out the most accurate.Most .22 rimfires will let you know what they like real quick. Speaking in broad terms, soilds for edible game, HP's for vermin.

Just a hint - a broad generalization at that - Winchester PowerPoints have always shot consistantly for me, but you don't wanna use 'em for edible stuff unless you can consistantly pull off the head-shot!

HTH,  ALAN

ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, CO, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 05:51:44 (ZULU)

Shot 500 and 1000 yards, and can honestly say that the Gardner rifle did not outshoot my Shilen built rig.  However, the Gardner rigs operator consistantly outshot the Shilen rigs operator at both ranges.

I hate when equipemnt failures can't be blamed.  Good seeing ya again Roger.

Mike in Texas <mcdonald@hcn.hcnews.com>
Texas, - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 05:53:04 (ZULU)

The concept for the .22 rifle is cheap, accurate adult sized small game rifle with weather resistant fixed power scope.  Really a SHTF rifle, since the only small game I now hunt usually comes in paper boxes with fries.  It would also be a way to get my wife into rifle marksmanship, since I have not been able to convince her to try the AR15 yet, not to mention get me shooting more for less $.

William M. <elmerfudd3000@yahoo.com>
Birmingham, AL, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 06:19:48 (ZULU)

Kevin, If you get to Honolulu. Stay a way from the Alamowanna park on Sunday afternoon. The bike riders there are a bad influance trust me. All though you are on the wrong type of bike for them.

Sinister congrats dude. My hat is off to you. Not that I wear one often.

Steve Dickerson <ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 06:54:08 (ZULU)

I went hunting last night, that old boar i saw the other week had been digging up the undergrowth near a tree stand, i could tell the tracks in the mud, thats a big sucker of a pig, heared a large animal circling the stand i sat on, it was too dark to see in the underbrush, but the wind was turning and swirling last night, my guess is that the old boy knows where the hunters are likely to be and circles the tree stands checking the wind before he shows his self, Ive narrowed his territory down to about a 200 acre block, the woods are criss crossed with muddy or sandy tracks and by walking the tracks you can see what type of game has crossed by the prints in the dirt. I think I'll leave that area alone until the season for mature boars starts on June 15th, don't want to scare him off.

Hexa thanks for the brief history of the TRG, I dunno what the things cost here in Germany, I know the first ones where expensive and then they dropped in price a lot, I'll check. I like the rifles though, Sako is good kit.

Pete

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 08:14:53 (ZULU)

Pete L

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 08:18:49 (ZULU)

 I just payed up on the riffle-raffle.  Sorry I was holding ya'll up, but something serious took me away for the past few days....

 I am decisively engaged in a freakin' Bio-war.  Number two daughter (Nicole, 2.5 years) is here with me in the hospital begining what I pray to be a long and succesfull fight against leukemia.  This is Daddy-hell, gentlemen.  There is something evil hurting my baby, and there is no flank I can hit; there is no frontal assault to lead, no sight picture--and my hands are tied.  As any of you would for your own children, I too wish I could lay in her place right now.  

 Wife and I moved in to the hospital in Lacrosse.  After the really shitty initial bad news--we have had some good news.  Our new scale starts simply at "bad" then moves to "worse."  The prognosis is staying up on the "bad" end of that scale.  My little princess has the version that most often gets its' ass kicked by modern medicine.  We have our hopes.  I pray that none of you ever faces this hell...Over the years, I thought I knew fear--but I didn't have a clue.  Today, I know what fear truly is, and I am terrified...And other than this little outlet here and now, I keep counsel of my fears.  I win an academy award for best actor all day long while hangin' with my princess and wife.  And if I hear one more time "that this is relativley rare disease with only 2000 cases a year"  I am going to take a doctor outta the gene pool.  Gents, it ain't rare when it is hurting your baby.  Gotta go and rig up the IV; these damn alarms don't summon the night help as fast I'd expect.

Joe Mahon

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
Eau Claire, WI, US of A - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 08:36:12 (ZULU)

Sorry to hear about your condition ;-), I'll send a reminder to your email address.

All the Best

Jon

Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 10:30:27 (ZULU)

Pete Lincoln

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 12:15:07 (ZULU)

Having known that fear with my own son at 8 days old, I can feel your fear. Hearing you express it, wakes emotions not felt in years. Your family needs you to continue to be the winner of that academy award for quite awhile. Take it easy on the docs, they go home and cry more than you think. Hold and pray HARD.

john <acehighbmg@mindspring.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 13:12:41 (ZULU)

I haven't been placed in your position, but I have two kids who I would do anything for' so I can just imagine you and your wife's feelings. Just know that there are lots of people praying for your daughter and family. I will add ya'll to our prayer list at church.

                  God bless you and yours

redfish <ruger2000@msn.com>
A, - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 13:28:33 (ZULU)

This phase of operation freebee is closed:  

We have two winners:

1.   Brownells Glass Bedding Kit:  w.bierbower@worldnet.att.net

2.   Leupold WindRiver spotting scope: camwong@mindspring.com

Thanks for playin' hogs.....

Don't close your scope covers yet......

ken hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
nokesville, va, U.S.A - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 13:52:13 (ZULU)

 you're hanging out with a pretty loyal and supportive bunch of hogs. Many of them lurk and don't speak out.  I'm sure prayers for you and your family will be heard from our lurkers all over the world.

May the Lord bless you and your family.

Ken

ken hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
nokesville, va, U.S.A - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 13:59:13 (ZULU)

I don't have the words to express my sincere wish that everything works out for your wee one and your family. Al the best to you and yours.

Sinister one,

Congradulations on legging out,, did you do it with that Varget load you sent me ;))  We have a reserve HM shooting with us, and he says that miltary guys leg out a bit different, is there that much of a difference on how you need to aquire the points?

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
What's in a name? That which we call VarGet by any other name would smell as sweet !!!!, - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 14:03:04 (ZULU)

I am relativly new here on the DR but want you to know my prayers are with you and your family. This bunch on the DR is a great group of men

who will mentally be with you through this whole thing. Have faith brother, the Lord DOES work in mysterious ways that we cannot comprehend.

Lou

Lou <XNYCowboy@aol.com>
The ZOO, - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 14:08:42 (ZULU)

My heart goes out to you, we just lost my neice. Born with cancer she was home only about 2 weeks, the rest of her short 9 months was in the hospital. She was amazing with all the pain and procedures she always had a smile and hardly ever cried. The doctors and nurses worked so hard to keep her alive and when she died they all gathered around and cried. Most of them were at her funeral. Try to cut them some slack because they do care.

I know it is hard to hold it together but you have to for everyone else. You will need to find someone that you can confide in and cry on their shoulder when you are away from everyone else. DO NOT try to keep it all inside or it will consume you.

We will be praying for you hold hard and pray hard.

tam308 <tam308@aol.com>
US of A!!!!!!!! - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 14:19:42 (ZULU)

Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
cool and sunny, Nokesville, VA, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 13:31:42 (ZULU)

They noticed, they just wanted the raffle to start a little early.  Devious, I tell ya, devious....

Gearing up to lap some Badgers,,,,  Will make my initail attempt on or about Tuesday... I've heard this takes some time, but worth it or not I figure it's some kinda right of passage and must try it for my self.. Maybe I can convice "She Who Must Be Obeyed" that it's some kind of new aerobic exercise that's Gar-Un-Teed to take off 10 lbs ;)))

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
What's in a name? That which we call VarGet by any other name would smell as sweet !!!!, - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 14:26:57 (ZULU)

The Bolster noticed the wrong zulu when the last riffle raffle started. Appeared to be 1 zulu off.

Joe,

Sometimes you HAVE to talk to your buds or even a complete stranger about what you are feeling. No matter what you think most men, myself included, cannot go on indefinitely holding stuff in. I tried it and it just doesn't work. All of us have a pressure relief valve but it is better to let off the pressure before valve blows.

I work at a very large hospital and I see people going through similar situations on a regular and unfortunate basis. I have completed a lot of projects in the neonatal and oncology areas and I can tell you for a fact that the people that work in these areas and the technology that is used are THE best. The medical community is an amazing bunch, especially when it comes to kids. We will put everything aside to make sure the little people get better.

For all of you folks going through trying times, this site and the Rosterferians that inhabit it are a family. Anything that screws with the family brings us together. All of us have emails and most of us will be glad to do anything we can to help you out.

Instructors and commanders out there......

I went to the DMAT deployment qualification excercise yesterday so that if I absolutly have to deployed out of state, I will know what the hell's going on. It is a weekend excercise but work constraints allowed only yesterday. If you are an instructor or a commander of a large group of people involving logistics please do the following:

1. Have a plan and stick to it.

2. Do not change the way things work in between regular training sessions. Make the changes the next training session.

3. When you have a drill, do not make changes to your SOP's during the drill! Do the drill by the current book, and then debrief for comments and questions AFTER the drill. Review the changes and make them at the next training session.

4. Do not expect newbies to know what they are supposed to do and do not bitch at them when they screw up. Help them along.

5. Most people that do this type of thing are type A personalities that hate to stand around waiting on things to happen. Keep the training going steadily with an emphisis on how things will happen in the real world.

6. Finally, YOUR BRAIN CANNOT ASSIMILATE WHAT YOUR ASS CAN'T TOLERATE! In other words, don't let people sit too long, or their brains and asses will get numb!

Time to clean some reels, Bolt out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 14:31:10 (ZULU)

Dale Weiss <dweissmtnman@aol.com>
Bethlehem, pa, usa - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 14:52:26 (ZULU)

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 15:05:43 (ZULU)

Ken... you are 43 seconds FAST (we all knew you were fast kinda guy anyway;)

I tol' Marius a while back, and he said the clock was "Your job!" ;))

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung, the creek has riz... I wonder where dem kitties is?, - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 15:07:02 (ZULU)

I have a WindRiver spotting scope that we got because we liked that it was more reasonably priced and a Leupold, which we've always had real good luck with.  (I LOVE the Gen II Mildot scope I have!!)  Being very new to using scopes of any kind, it took me awhile to get used to using the WindRiver scope, and I still have trouble finding trace and reading mirage, but I attribute that to my inexperience rather than the quality of the scope.  My husband works at Badlands, and greatly prefers the Nikon scopes the school uses.  He says the glass is much better.  (He also says the WindRiver is up for sale if anyone is interested)  <chuckle>  So, my comment would be that the WindRiver is 'adequate', but the Nikon is much better, which boils down to 'ya get what ya pay for'.  I was too cheap to shell out the money for the Nikon, and figured the 'cheapie' Leupold would be just as good.  My husband was very understanding, and hasn't said 'I told you so.'  

Good luck in your search, and if you DO decide to go with the Wind River, I know where you can get one that's only a few months old at a good price...   :o)

Bunny  

Mary Duncan <GunBunnyl3@aol.com>
OK & CA, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 15:38:37 (ZULU)

Use it or suffer……..I skipped my legs yesterday and it was a bad night.

Ref: Drag Bags

I have mixed thoughts on drag bags.  Andy and I use the simple Eagle bags that just carry the rifle and a log book.  I like to have one to protect the rifle during movement and to have it to lie on when shooting.  However, I don’t like the idea of having my weapon buckled inside a bag when moving through “Injun Country”.

During a FTX last summer I was moving into a FFP with my spotter and was inside the wood line maybe 40 yards from the house (it was a LE scenario) when we heard a woman screaming and some shots fired.  There I was with my teeth in my mouth and my weapon in a bag.  We couldn’t intervene quickly.  The rifle belongs in your hands.

A possible alternative would be to carry your drag bagged rifle on your back using ALICE straps and carry a M4 in your hands.  This of course increases your load but does provide for better self defense/quick response options.

out

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 15:42:06 (ZULU)

Ed Ubinas <eubinas@hotmail.com>
Southern Pines, NC, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 15:47:44 (ZULU)

Finally got to take my PSS-based Garner rifle and new Undude Sling to 1k, and the results were quite nice. Warmed up on some metal pie plates and ground squirrels at 500, with results that brought a grin to my face. That Undude sling really works. It forces you to pay attention to your position and helps get rid of little wobbles and bumps in your hold. Buy one! Also met a nice gentleman with an AR-50 who let me kill a couple of metal plates at 500. Gents, this is a nice rifle, and it's VERY satisfying to see that 10 pound plate fly 5 feet in the air when hit!

At 1k things got interesting. My first encounter with the 1k line, aprox. 1300 local time, was less than spectacular. Wind was shifting and gusting, requiring 5 min of correction and a bit of creative holding to compensate for shifts, and still didn't do well. The rounds all went to the same spot, it's just that the spot I was shooting wasn't located on the ground squirrel! I hate wind. Decided to grab some lunch and regroup.

Returned to range @ aprox. 1530 and met up with Mike in Texas, who was just arriving. Shot at 500 for a while. At aprox. 1800 local, went back to 1k with Mike in Texas and another fine fellow named Ron and really had some fun. Wind was calmer than before, and more consistent. Warmed up on a couple of pies and squirrels, then joined Mike and Ron's attempt to hit a can of shaving cream Ron had placed on the berm. Took five tries, but I hit it and a gratifying spray of white foam erupted. To Ron's credit, he kissed the can with a round from his rifle, but it wasn't "on" enough to puncture the metal, just give it a little dent where the bullet swiped the side. The can is now sitting on my desk as a memento of the occasion.

Summary:

First, George does excellent work. Everyone I met yesterday had very flattering things to say about my rifle. Second, you do not know what you and your rifle can do unless you stretch your legs! Shoot at the longest range you can! Third, the famous saying "Dope it, Dial it, Dump it" is GOOD advice. Don't think about it too much; just shoot the damn thing!

Items of Interest:

Discovered that the first shot through my freshly-cleaned bore moves slower than the others. At 1k, this translated to the bullet striking almost 4 minutes low. Chronoed five rounds of Black Hills 175's over Mike's 35P and got +2646, -2585, E=2646, M=2620, and S=24 from my 24" Rock 5R 1-11" tube. That 2585 was the clean-bore shot. Is this a common occurance? Was also dissapointed by the chrono results. I had been hoping for more velocity from that Rock barrel, somewhere close to 2700.

Mike's Shilen rifle is very nice! Chronoed five rounds of my BH175 through his tube and the velocity went up about 75fps and the spread narrowed considerably versus my rifle. That Shilen barrel is a keeper. I'm jealous. Also has a very nice Shilen trigger that is SOOOOOO smooth. It breaks at 3.5 lbs, but feels lighter than that. I mean, it is great!

Tried some of Mike's 155 grain handloads through my tube and they shot a full 5 minutes flatter at 1000 yards than my BH175's. Wind deflection was identical. Accuracy was noticably diminished versus my BH175's, though.

Equipment used:

George Garner rifle built on PSS stock, trued action, SSG knob, 24" Mike Rock 5R 1-11", Badger recoil lug, MarineTex bedded, Decelerator Pad, Harris BRM-S pod (with Pod-Loc and Speedy Knob), Badger 20 MOA base and Max-50 rings, Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x40 M3, Undude sling, Black Hills 175 grain match ammo, BlackHawk Russ Clagett shooting mat/soft case.

Big thank you to Mike in Texas for use of Chrono, some great conversation, and a big chickenfried steak dinner! It was damn good to see you again, compadre. It's been way too long.

Roger C. <madeditor75@hotmail.com>
Austin, TX, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 15:50:14 (ZULU)

 You all are quite right.  I gotta find a way to vent.  Stuck here in the hospital with no one else to turn to, I just put my thoughts on this thread, and it helped a bunch to just express them even if it was just a short note.  Good therapy.  My wife is here now reading everyone's thoughts and prayer's over my shoulder, and she has tears in her eyes.  She knows good people a mile away, and you all have passed muster with her.  Having her read this is sorta like bringing her to deer camp...well, almost.  

 Hogs, once I get the family in the clear (or at least stable), I will come back to posting.  I am building a range (on temporary hold) that I can get at least 600 yds on, maybe 1000yds if we can clear the house safely to the left.  My wife is LE, and once we go hot, I will pass on an "open invite" for any who get up this way.  Call it selfishness because I know I can learn tons from any of you!  Until then, I am leaving the safe locked, the boolits boxed, and the little one "front and center."  

I will stay up on my reading, and thanks for all the kind words, thoughts and prayers.  They meant much to me and my wife.

Joe

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
Eau Claire, WI, US of A - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 18:42:14 (ZULU)

Around 1985-86 we (USMC SSIS) got a sample from Eagle and started playing with them.  In my mind the "Drag bag" could be used to carry the sniper gun when moving to and from the ORP.  If the guy carrying the sniper rifle can tote an M4 or MP5 or someshit then go fer it.  Sniper rifle is next to worthless in a fire fight but that just another extra weapon to be toting around.

Never stalked with a full sized bag.  Caught lots of students draggin one around through.  Its like dragging a Iowa class battleship behind ya.  Remember "school" stalks are just that, school exercises.  In real life you will want your rifle out and ready to go.  One of the undudes muzzle and scope protectors shoud be all you need.

GOoch out

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Click on my name to visit www.goochtraining.com - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 20:07:50 (ZULU)

William M. ..... How much is cheap? Weather resistant, accurate, inexpensive (in my mind), very available, and fool proof in my experience - the Ru..Ru...Ruger 10/22 stainless synthetic. And lots of serious upgrades available if you wanna go nuts later. I won't tell you about stuff I've never owned -no hearsay from this corner. But I've had one, a checkered walnut Sporter model since 1976, only cleaned it about half-dozen times since it was new, it's never skipped a beat with any of about twenty brands of ammo that I've fed it! Have an old (all-steel, El Paso built) Weaver K4 on it with the steel Redfield rings.

Dale Weiss..... sub-moa sounds like magic on a Romak3. I sure can't recommend any loads to you, but how about you telling me what load you're using to get that kind of accuracy? I have a real nice Soviet M91/30 PU sniper that I'd love to get better accuracy from!

ALAN

ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, CO, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 20:08:19 (ZULU)

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com >
- Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 20:18:00 (ZULU)

To you, your wife, the little princess and the rest of the family, all the best - you are in our prayers.  May God be with you in this time.

I've never been there, or nowhere close - well maybe I was.  With our first son's birth.  Initial tests indicated a possibility of Downs syndrome.  We went for the next tests - amniosynthesis (sp?) - which would prove conclusively yes or no.  Those four days I NEVER EVER want again in my life, nor do I wish them onto my worst enemy, let alone a friend.  Those four days really brought us closer to the Lord again (my wife is a minister), but were the four worst days of my life.

Marnus is seven now, will be eight in November - grade two.  Like his dad he is not very athletic, but gets along.  But with his mind there is nothing wrong - on the contrary, he is quite a brainy young lad.

I cannot say that your current ordeal will have the same result, but what I can say is that, if you spend that time with the Lord, you will come out the other end a better person.

God Bless

Marius

Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
- Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 21:29:02 (ZULU)

Also agree with Gooch on the muzzle protector and scope pad.  This works just fine and makes the shooter carry his weapon protected as he should.  Not drug behind him as some piece of meat.

Gooch - The Redfield Accutrak 3x9 I am assuming (opps an a** of you amd me).  Zeroed at 500 and held for range after ranging with the 19 inch indicators near the top and read off the paddle on the bottom?  If so, have used and them and liked them a lot more then that ART crap.

Have sent an article to Marius with a slide show depicting mils and how to read them.  This will include the Army and Marine dots.  Will add to the article with holds for range, wind, leads for movers etc if the interest is there.  This article only touches on it and there are several techniques we use as well as the rest of the world.

Hold Hard Guys.  Marius said it may take a bit to get them on line so do not bug him and play nice guys!

Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 21:50:29 (ZULU)

Dale Weiss <dweissmtnman@aol.com>
Bethlehem, pa, usa - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 21:58:21 (ZULU)

I'd think that given the choice, grazing or suppressive fire is much more effective when using an full automatic weapon such as the M60 or 240G.  

What are you shooting through that thing?  Is it the Silver tip surplus, PMP, handloads or the new comercial loads?

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
What's in a name? That which we call VarGet by any other name would smell as sweet !!!!, - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 22:07:57 (ZULU)

Rick, I am looking forward to your slideshow and there is an interest in the other topics as well.

Keith

Keith <keith37f20@excite.com>
They are calling for a chance of snow here tonight. That's just not right., - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 22:20:41 (ZULU)

Like everyone else, I'm thinking of you and yours.

matt wolf <greenscove@hotmail.com>
Mascarene, NB, Canuckland - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 22:21:47 (ZULU)

RE .22LR ammo:  Has anyone developed opinions on the copper coated variety?  Federal has a 30 gr variety and then I saw CCI with the 30 gr "stinger".  Is there an accuracy advantage?  The copper coated is, as the Fed Gold medal target and Remington subsonic, still 1/5 the price of the Federal "Ultra match" ($99 per 500).  Thanks for any experience shared.

Dave <weldedwelk@twave.net>
- Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 22:37:54 (ZULU)

Best of wishes to you and your family, take care

Kush out

Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
Pensacola, Lower Alabama, - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 22:49:52 (ZULU)

Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
SJ, CA, USA - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 23:29:24 (ZULU)

I have quite a handfull of checks to process from friday and saturday. I will post the results later this evening. It's gettin pretty close.

ken hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
nokesville, va, U.S.A - Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 23:58:08 (ZULU)

I chronoed the black hills 175 grain bullets at 2600 fps exactly with an extreme spread of 3 fps for 5 shots out of my Schneider 24 inch match barrel.  I also hoped the velocity would be higher but with that low standard deviation I can't argue.  

Drag bags

Thanks for all the comments guys, they were along the same lines as I was thinking.  

However I think I am going to try using a drag bag this year for deer hunting, just to try it out.

Gooch

The rifle cover BDU cover is a pretty slick idea

Nicholas Young <ynicholas1@qwest.net>
SLC, UT, USA - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 00:12:29 (ZULU)

I would like some input from some of you who have used or shot with the Accuracy International chassis system (Fancy way of saying "stock").  I am thinking about buying one for my Rem 700.

I've already read the article in SC's "In Review" by Kevin Boland.  But a few more comments would help.  I know their expensive but I just bought a McMillan A2 for my FN and by the time I get it milled and pillar bedded the cost would be close.  \

I would appreciate any comments either pro or con.  Thanks.

Rambosky - Over...............

Larry Surretsky <rambovn@aol.com>
Kings Mtn., NC, Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave! - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 00:35:10 (ZULU)

Marty or anyone who knows. I sent my scope off to Leupold for some work, and soon will get it back.  What are the torque values for the screws on Badger rings???

Dennis Muldrew <dmuldrew@swbell.net>
OP, KS, USA - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 00:58:22 (ZULU)

My thoughts  and prayers are with you and your family.  I can't imagine what I would do in your position, my little girl is the world to me and my wife.  God bless you all.

Nick

Nick Anzano <nanzano@mindspring.com>
- Monday, May 20, 2002, at 01:40:26 (ZULU)

Posted at precisely 0156:30

Mike

BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
- Monday, May 20, 2002, at 01:57:21 (ZULU)

Denver Judge Axes the Constitution

http://www.stanley2002.org/release5_15_02b.htm

Rambosky,

I have an Accuracy International 1.5 on order from David Barham, david.barham@ncfbins.com to replace my Rem PSS stock. What I understand about the chassis system is no bedding is required or needed. Take the stock and floorplate off the old rifle. Take out the mag well also. Slide the action onto aluminum chassis and install the action screws which are provided. You torque the two screws to 65 inch pounds (not foot pounds). After torquing the screws with torque wrench install the polymer skins with the hardware provided. These are available in either 5 or 10 shot clips.

Joe,

Most (if not all) of the Roster here, are in my definition, "fearless men." In the elements that we CAN see, we realize the possible consequences and outcome and are trained to define and defend against such. It's the fight against the unseen that strikes fear into the hearts of men. Words like leukemia and cancer bring such to mind. What Marius said is words of wisdom. Listen to him. Just as we know and are trained in weapons of the natural, the Lord has given us weapons to fight the unseen. Ephesians 6:10-18 defines what those weapons are. Imagine a Roman soldier when you read this.

We're with you soldier. Realize it's a fight....and a fight you're going to win.

Mark W

Mark W <sharps45@msn.com>
Anyone want to sell their B&L Tactical 10X?, Texas, - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 01:58:12 (ZULU)

The torque values for the screws on Badger Rings is 35 inch pounds.

Out

tam308 <tam308@aol.com>
US of A!!!!!!!! - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 02:06:12 (ZULU)

Hang in there, Joe.

Keith, the Krieger is everything I hoped it would be.  Spend the extra bucks and get a nail-driver (I'm told they also last longer).

Rich in Bal'mer:  a Rock River AR re-done by John Holliger will get you to Master class.  I should have had one of the "Name" ARsmiths build mine before having to un-futz the damage the first 'smith did to mine (only took three seasons).

Hank, the reason I use moly is because I like it.  When shooting the Navy matches you use issued-ammo only (Mark 262 is loaded with raw 77-grain Sierra Match Kings).  Rifle can't tell the difference.  Neither can I.  

Moe, the "Distinguished Rifleman Badge" is the same title, but how you get there if military is a little harder.  Civvy or military, you can only shoot four leg matches a year (one must be the Nationals at Perry).  If a civilian places anywhere in the leg cutoff at Perry he automatically wins 10 leg points (as opposed to a military guy, who might only gain 8 points for a silver and six for a bronze finish -- to gain a leg medal you MUST finish in the top 10% of shooters firing in a leg match).  Military shooters can shoot in only one "Civilian" leg match per year (an NRA state or regional championships Excellence-in-Competition match), and even if he wins, only 10 points of the 30 required for your badge can be "civilian".

Civilian rules are in the EIC rules book at www.odcmp.org.  

Sinister Dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
- Monday, May 20, 2002, at 02:21:15 (ZULU)

 We are at 49 tix unpaid. Get them payments in - get em in - get em in - get em in - get em in....

EACH PAYER RECEIVES A PAID STATUS NOTE FROM ME. IF YOU HAVE NOT RECEIVED A NOTE FROM ME - THAT MEANS I HAVE NOT RECEIVED YOUR TICKET PAYMENT.

I hate to be a nag - but we need to drive this to completion - so we can get that riffle on the way to it's winner :)

thanks hawgs...

Ken

ken hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
nokesville, va, U.S.A - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 02:37:26 (ZULU)

    Joe:  May the Lord release His healing power to your little one.  With two young children of my own, I can imagine what a trial it must be.  One thing I know.....the Lord answers prayer.  God bless.

Jerry <jtmstor@rrv.net>
Red River Valley, black dirt country, MN, USA - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 03:03:24 (ZULU)

Don't know if you recieved my E mail or not.........I meant every word, and I will continue to lift you all up.

Hope it was recieved in the spirit intended.......

E Mail me directly, ANY time......

Two Shoes

Dos Zap

Glockamolie <Glockamolie@cs.com>
- Monday, May 20, 2002, at 03:04:22 (ZULU)

Officer Steve from Kansas City, KS, had one in my last class and did just fine. He had to tear it down at the range and clear some trash from the bolt catch. Went back together and no zero problems at all.

That's always a plus.

Semper Fi,

Finger

jim reifinger <ironhawk308@ec.rr.com>
Jacksonville, NC, USA - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 04:13:34 (ZULU)

Joe, I can’t begin to imagine what you must be going through right now.  Faith and the courage drawn from that faith is what must be relied upon.  We are your friends and although I’ve never met you or your little “Princess” know that we’re with you in this and wish we could do more than just say that.

I think that any Dad worth his salt would step in and take a bullet for his kids.  I’m sure you feel that way.  The horribly frustrating thing about this kind of attack is there is little you can do other than stay strong and keep the family focused and together.  Cry when you need to Joe.  Talk to someone.  Then do what you’ve been doing all along.  Be her Dad.

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 05:07:06 (ZULU)

Joe, I can’t begin to imagine what you must be going through right now.  Faith and the courage drawn from that faith is what must be relied upon.  We are your friends and although I’ve never met you or your little “Princess” know that we’re with you in this and wish we could do more than just say that.

I think that any Dad worth his salt would step in and take a bullet for his kids.  I’m sure you feel that way.  The horribly frustrating thing about this kind of attack is there is little you can do other than stay strong and keep the family focused and together.  Cry when you need to Joe.  Talk to someone.  Then do what you’ve been doing all along.  Be her Dad.

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 05:07:09 (ZULU)

I have four teenagers, all healthy thank God. In my 23 years in LE I have seen my share of death and hardship, as have many others. It is especially difficult when children are the ones who are hurting. My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family. Vent here as you need to, you are not alone.

Take care!

Lt. Rob Opp

Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 05:29:32 (ZULU)

Gizmo <ssn581@teleport.com>
Beavercreek, OR, USA - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 06:40:36 (ZULU)

 All I can say is thanks to you all; I was operating in the crisis mode yesterday, and I forgot "faith and hope."  You each have pushed my thinking back where it needs be--back in this fight, with a clear objective.  I now have hope.  This cancer can be beat, and we will now beat this thing.  The success stories I recieved in email were right on time.  You know who you were, and I thank you much.  I needed hope, and hope I now have!

 I will always remember the gratitude in my wife's eyes as she read today's postings.  Her spirit is back to her usual optimistic self, and she is knocked over by you all and your concern.

 We will fight this and win, then I will teach my little girl how to shoot.  

 When the time comes guys, I will need advice on how to instruct her properly so she doesn't inherit any of my bad habits!!

May God bless each of you,

(and may he forgive me for getting a bit angry with him yesterday)

Joe

Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
Eau Claire, WI, US of A - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 07:58:29 (ZULU)

out

G.W

Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Monday, May 20, 2002, at 10:20:34 (ZULU)

Just a heads up, the deal's been done, the papers are(finally) signed, I'm off to the land of bagpipes n' drums.  Take care of the useless barrel info while I'm out, 'lito, and Murphy, keep an eye on Sodak for me, eh?!!!

Peter Lincoln:

looks like I'll be there by June, it's a damned miracle.

later

JR

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
almost across the pond, - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 10:39:33 (ZULU)

But I went to the woods before work today to check on my corn piggy bait that i'd layed, looks like the big ole boar was at it, most of the corn was gone and there where some big fresh piggy prints in the earth 25 days to large boar opening day..

JR dude, so your gettin ready to jump the pond eh, I'm sure you will enjoy the land of Bagpipes,Tartan and Malt Whiskey, not to mention the wild life and hunting, the fish and chips and the beer. Looking forward to makin your aquaintance, you will wish you brought your dog !! and i bet I get you interested in stalking a few Roe Deer !!

Pete L

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 12:10:09 (ZULU)

Badger ring torque update. 15 inch pounds is the correct torque limit.

I gave it from memory not from my Badger box. Sorry for the mis information.

TonyM

tam308 <tam308@aol.com>
US of A!!!!!!!! - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 12:22:17 (ZULU)

Marius; I can't believe that minisniper is 7 awready! Time is truly a fleeting thing!

Rick; Looking to read your artickle!

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com >
where the jet stream meets the sage. - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 13:03:38 (ZULU)

Anyway, here's an idea that I used for a protective sleeve for a sniper rifle.  Lessee if I can make this make sense.

Take a XL pair of cammie trowsers.  Take one leg and invert it and shove it inside of the other leg sinch down the leg ties.  Run a piece of 550 cord through the belt loops to close off the top end.  If you have a hand awl you can sew up the crotch area.

Make sense???  Damn...I'll try taking some pictures....but anyway it works!  It gives you a scabbard with pockets outside and inside...probably just cornfused the lot of you huh???

Its been a long day....

Joe.  Been through some shit in my life too and all I can say is have faith and hang on.  Life can be a rollercoaster so don't forget the good times for the bad.  My philosophy has been that life is like shooting in a rapidly changing wind.  Sometimes all you can do is shoot down the middle and hope for the best.

Out

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Click on my name to visit www.goochtraining.com - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 13:56:44 (ZULU)

"Just re-read my last post and it had more errors in grammer and spelling than my last email from snot-bro Rick.  Jeeze."

Like any of us are going to notice :).

The description of  the "protective sleeve" is great.  In fact I'm going to make one up.  I have the mom-in-law visiting for the next 6 weeks and I'll give her the sewing duty (this way I don't have to curse and I'll retain the use of my fingers).  

I'll report back on the outcome.

Nick

Nick Anzano <nanzano@mindspring.com>
Milton, NJ, USA - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 14:33:24 (ZULU)

You and your familiy are in my thoughts.  I wish you all the best.

JR,

Don't listen to Pete.  The fish & chips in Scotland are crap.  Becareful what you eat if you don't want to suffer life long heart problems, they deep fry EVERYTHING; pies, pizza, chocolate bars in batter (no joke).  And the beer, well if you like carbonated pi$$ you'll love it;-)  I lived in Scotland for 3 years and loved every minute, the land and the hunting was (is) terrific, but one of the few things that made my move south a little easier was the knowledge of being able to get decent fish & chips and plenty of good Indian restaurants (few and far between in rural Scotland and when you find one you will need a loan to pay). But God I still miss the place, think about it every day.  Which part you going to and are you going stalking?

Jon

Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Monday, May 20, 2002, at 14:52:51 (ZULU)

I heard you mention no flank, no enemy to confront directly... I suggest you look at it differently... Medical science is not as exact as many believe.. Decisions made by your little girl's doc are gonna make a difference on how things play out... With some resolve, you can ramp up to speed and double check all those decisions.. Ask questions, ask LOTS OF QUESTIONS, keep asking questions until everyone you encounter knows there is a question brewing.

Keep notes (yes, I mean write things down!) and check consistency from day to day...ask for details on the treatment plan and contingency.  

Jim Mitchell aka medicjim

Jim Mitchell <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Monday, May 20, 2002, at 15:30:20 (ZULU)

Im in the middle of emailing you Jon.

Pete L

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 15:34:25 (ZULU)

ALAN

ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, CO, USA - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 16:42:57 (ZULU)

That made sense.  Do you sew the cuff closed?

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Monday, May 20, 2002, at 17:14:25 (ZULU)

I found on my C-24 that using Medium-long trousers that all but the last couple of inches on my buttstock got covered up.

Out here.

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Click on my name to visit www.goochtraining.com - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 17:54:05 (ZULU)

I found on my C-24 that using Medium-long trousers that all but the last couple of inches on my buttstock got covered up.  Editors note:  I said BUTTSTOCK not BUTTOCKS by the way.

Out here.

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Click on my name to visit www.goochtraining.com - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 17:54:06 (ZULU)

Took off after the Allegheny match and went on a hog hunt in SC with myson Brock and Rod Hansen, last sunday thru Wed..

Hunting was on a large, 5000 acre, plantation..Hunting from stands was OK but went over a slough to an island in the Savannah River to see where the hogs layed up during the day..Thick cover, very snaky..

Moved some hogs on the initial recon Tues. eve. but never did see them.  Temp. was down to 40 on thursday morning{snakes less active} so Rod and I went over and tried still hunting them in the thick stuff..Moved some, but again didn't see any except a couple of small ones.  Policed up Brock and he went with Rod to be dropped of in an opening while Rod and I circled through the thick brush and grass again, just like jumping rabbits..Worked like a charm..Had a big one get up about 15 yards from me and hammered her with my 444 Marlin carbine..3 of 5 300gr. Hornady XTPs connected..450lb. sow..She hung out the back of a Toyota pickup when loaded..Took 5 guys to drag her.

Going in after them was REAL exciting!!!!!

outa here

Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
The Alleghenies, WV, USA - Monday, May 20, 2002, at 18:13:13 (ZULU)

Joe you and your family will be in my prayers.

Getting a new mutt soon. (Well, its from the number two German Short Hair bitch in the country. So, not really a mutt.) May give him the handle Sniper Mutt II if no one objects. My wife may but we will cro