April 18, 1999 to April 26, 1999

Torsten - Acceptable group size from a tripod/sitting? Should be the same as prone. I don't like sticks/arrows. I like a camera tripod. Its a little bulky but it is useful from prone (on its side) to standing.

What is there to say about M118LR? Its good shit.

Robins egg blue huh? Its after Easter guys. Earth tones are in.

Out here
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Sunday, April 18, 1999 at 01:43:46 (ZULU) 

I do have a budget, but am willing to pay for a system that will work.

This may be a little off topic for your group, but any reply would be greatly appreciated..

Thanks guys!

Bruce <citizen__kane@hotmail.com>
Oklahoma, USA - Sunday, April 18, 1999 at 08:19:22 (ZULU) 

Sarge

Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Sunday, April 18, 1999 at 14:39:38 (ZULU) 

jerry bearden <http://www.jerrybga@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, April 18, 1999 at 15:24:51 (ZULU) 

I've tried on 2 or 3 occasions to post to the Roster, but got "500 Server Error". Trying to acknowledge your test w/ N540. Yesterday I checked scope settings on two load for 260 cause I'm shooting in a match this Sat. at Ft. Benning. May have to try this 540 stuff. So far N160 and Varget are working for the 142 MKs.

And today is my last day of working on Sun. Very good cause guess when most of the matches are held? Hooyah

Jeff A.

Jeff A. <d1k2l3@aol.com>
Smyrna, Ga, USA - Sunday, April 18, 1999 at 17:01:34 (ZULU) 

If you are still interested in scope caps I will get a picture of mine with a polaroid and scan it.

Don't count on MOA or even 3''. I also found an extra scope and 214 mount to put on it. I has been so long in storage I for got it had the book and spare parts kit in the butt trap too.

MJ
MJ <montereyjack@kmenterprises.com>
Monterey, Calif., USA - Sunday, April 18, 1999 at 18:00:17 (ZULU) 

http://www.snipersparadise.com/sniper's.htm

Thomas <sniper@snipersparadise.com>
TX, USA - Sunday, April 18, 1999 at 19:14:00 (ZULU) 

Were is the Storm Mountain Training Center located?

thank you kindly
Tom kavanaugh <kavakota@rrnet.com>
fargo, nd, USA - Sunday, April 18, 1999 at 19:49:29 (ZULU) 

CJ

CJ <T18man@gateway.net>
new castle, de, USA - Sunday, April 18, 1999 at 20:01:27 (ZULU) 

Late last week I picked up a HB upper made by Bill Wylde, who is on this forum from time to time. Despite bad weather here [drizzle rain, cold, gusting winds] and despite the fact that I still have the stock Bushmaster trigger on the gun [which is much worse than the weather] I put about 100 rounds through it today at 100 yards. Simply put, it is the most accurate rifle I have ever shot. With off the shelf plinking ammo it was 5 shot ragged holes. With a trigger in this gun, a decent day, and some match ammo, I will report back at 100-500.

The rifle also has one of Bill's mounts on the flat-top, which actually allows you to put a scope where it needs to be, rather than where the factory apparently wants it to be. I was shooting a Mark IV M1 10x with a Premier Reticle's lit mil-dot reticle. The reticle is nice in low light.

If you are looking for an AR upper, I highly recommend Bill's equipment. Maybe I could send this gun out to Mike M for a review, or something? It will make you look at the AR in a whole new light.

Old Dog
Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
USA - Sunday, April 18, 1999 at 20:07:15 (ZULU) 

Matthew Marx
Matthew Marx <mam10@ra.msstate.edu>
MSU, MS, USA - Sunday, April 18, 1999 at 20:13:28 (ZULU) 

Sgt. J.F.McQuay
Scout Sniper, USMC
John <SNlPER8541@aol.com>
Camp Lejeune, NC, USA - Sunday, April 18, 1999 at 21:58:33 (ZULU) 

The Rustoleum paints I purchased at Quality Farm and Fleet and worked very well.

I'm Looking forward to putting it all together later on this evening.

al
Al OStapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Rembrandt with and A-2 in , Ohio, USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 00:22:25 (ZULU) 

Got an old 60's hippy & told him what colors I wanted.
Gave him my rifle, (unloaded, of course) and POW!!!!!!

CAMO-HAZE.

It's like, GROOVEY-man. FAR OUT!!!

Earth tones man. Earth tones.

Check you E-mail, Al.
D. West <westforce@juno.com>
House-setting & dog watching, in IL., USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 01:08:37 (ZULU) 

PAINT THE SCOPE...PAINT THE SCOPE...PAINT THE SCOPE. DO IT!!! You can do it man!! Use the force.....
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 01:17:10 (ZULU) 

To get to the point, the brass was IMI. The guy I talked to - and have since heard that he is no longer there - said to work up loads carefully as the brass was heavier than LAKE CITY.

He also stated that the head stamp would be changed to 'White Feather' at some point in the future, but that the brass would remain IMI.

Just thought you all might like to know, for those who didn't.

Larry
Larry <skporter@arn.net>
Boonies of the Texas Panhandle, Texas, USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 02:48:48 (ZULU) 

Mike - Playing with the sling and will let you know shortly on it.

Pete - Working with the Saddle and will let you know as well.

Camo the rifle with paint and don't worry about how it looks! If it looks ratty it is about right. If it looks cool then it will become a grey blotch at range anyway! Burlap on the barrel alone will not do alot of zero damage. Burlap trapping the barrel to the forestock will destroy the zero. Watch your colors and go light first. It is esier to go darker later. Look at the area/terrain you are working in and then look "through" the vegetation. If you see light through the vegetation then go light for sure. The main thing is as Gooch stated, earth tones, earth tones, earth tones. The human eye and brain creativity causes some terrible colors to be created. Take a look at Forest Green and tell me where that dam forest is that is the model. Stay away from black, nothing in nature is black! And yes paint the scope paint the scope and NOT the lens nor turret!!!! Good call DW!!

Oh well have fun guys and hold hard!

Rick <RBowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 02:48:58 (ZULU) 

I am looking for information on Dolphin Products Inc.
Jose M. Janer <jmjaner@laplaza.org>
Taos, NM, USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 03:32:23 (ZULU) 

I am looking for information on Dolphin Products Inc. "PHROBIS" 10X42, 30MM, 1/4" High Turrets and AO on the Ocular that goes from 10 to 500 Meters. My 1993 700 PSS 24", came with this Scope mounted on Leupold MK 4s. I have tried to contact the company in Oceanside, CA. and have come up with a dead end. I would appreciate input from anyone that has heard of this Tactical Scope. This sucker is very repeatable and built like a Tank. Last week, I went to NRA Whitington Center to Chonograph some 175 MK 41.5 Gr. Varget, groups at 100 yds of .340, .405 and .575 were the norm at 2500 fps. This week I will be working some Long Range (1000 yd.) Varget loads and will keep you all posted.
The best thing is that since my discharge from the USMC and spending more than 12 years without any shooting, my skill has never waned. when your taught to do it the right way is like riding a bike, you never forget.

Semper Fi

J.M. Janer Sr, Ret., Taos, New Mexico
J.M. Janer Sr. <jmjaner@laplaza.org>
Taos, NM, USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 03:52:45 (ZULU) 

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H, Ohio, USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 04:47:20 (ZULU) 

seril
Bangkok, Thailand - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 07:08:49 (ZULU) 

>Several vendors at Knob Creek told me they may not be able to get .308. There
>was no .45 there Saturday morning. Ammo vendors pallets were bare by 5:00
>Saturday and I was told more ammo was sold on Friday than had ever been sold
>during a three day show. I'm hearing similar stories from multiple sources.

************************************************

>For what it's worth, from an EXTREMELY reliable guy, a real establishment
>type, on a firearms-related discussion list. Folks had noticed an
>increasingly shallow supply of ammo, particularly in .45 and .223, and
>this was one of the responses.
>
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I had an interesting conversation with my local dealer today. He runs a
>medium size, full service gun and gun related only store. I told him
>about the reports that .223 and .45 were drying up in some parts of the
>country, according to this list.
>
>He said, "That ain't the half of it. It's all drying up and it has
>nothing to do with Y2K. It's war production." He says that he has
>talked to a half a dozen major wholesaliers and suppliers who all are
>telling him that the ammo on their shelves is all there is for the
>domestic market in the foreseeable future. The US government has
>ordered over a 100 million rounds of small arms ammo on an emergency
>basis and Federal, Remington and Winchester have shut down all other
>production. Furthermore, the news, as he got it, was that this is the
>first of possibly several orders. He also said that the powder makers
>are diverting the production away from cannister powders and selling all
>their current production to fulfill government contracts. Making things
>even worse, he says that Selliers and Bellot have dedicated their entire
>production facilities to the Yugoslavians. PMC is supposed to be
>totally occupied with regional governmental contracts.
>
>I don't know if any of this is true, but I do know the dealer. He never
>intends to keep anything in inventory that he doesn't believe he can
>turn over pretty fast. He has placed his normal order for the hunting
>seasons (bird and deer) in the hopes that he will have something to sell
>come September.
>
>Take this for what you think its worth. Anybody hear anything like
>this?
>
>
some friends <straight_shooter@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 09:32:37 (ZULU) 

Torsten and I have the same scope on our rifles. They do work fine and are very repeatable indeed. Check the reticle though.... The dots are not 1 but 2 mils apart! If you don't notice that, you'll be in serious sh*t when you try to range anything. Watch for puffs of dust, at twice the range to the target....

Contact me on the email adress below. We'll have a nice chat about these scopes.

To All:
I'm puzzled. Here's what's bugging me:
I use Lapua 167gr Scenar BTHP-M bullets in my Savage 110 FLP. I moly them and it works. The barrel reamins cold during firing (I compared it with several uncoated rounds and it does make quite a difference) and there's no measurable accuracy loss during the firing sequence, not even after firing 50 rounds without cleaning.
When I clean the barrel, something funny strikes me. Eventhough the moly SEEMS to be doing it's thing while shooting, I can remove LOADS of copper from the barrel afterwards.... It really strikes me.
Last Sunday I cleaned my rifle and used both Shooters Choice copper remover and Hoppes Benchrest te get the copper out. I cleaned it until the saturated patches came out the way they went in. Then, when I checked at the muzzle, there still was VISIBLE copper fouling. This is driving me NUTS! Using copper or nylon brushes made no difference! I strongly believe in using different solvents alternately during one cleaning session and up until now, I had success with it. This problem, however, is beyond me....

1. Why is there so much copper fouling, eventhough I moly my bullets and the moly seems to be working.

2. Why can't I remove the stuff from my barrel? What am I doing wrong (apart from using a Savage, hee hee hee!)

Thanks for your input!

Stefan
Stefan <stefan@sniperhide.com>
Someplace, Somewhere, The Netherlands - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 12:37:27 (ZULU) 

Ok you guys I cant believe that you have talked me into taking a gun I just put $1300 dollars in and and painting it! This is a good looking REM. 700 VSSF will this paint stick to stainless steel? or do I have to get a certain kind? Also will the paint chip off easy? Help me out here this is my new baby.

Thanks, Todd
Todd <terrellcl@hotmail.com>
IN, USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 12:58:27 (ZULU) 

Jim Craig,
Welcome back you old bandit!! I was wondering what happened to you. Hows things in Wyoming?? Are you going to be at the match again this year?? If so we'll have to have cold one togeather and catch up.

Todd,
The 700VSSF should do just as well as the PSS and sometimes better. I have shot several and have a good friend who has one and it is capable of under half minute MOA as far as the scope I guess I cant say since I am not familiar with it.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 13:17:15 (ZULU) 

First remove the nut (as Scott calls it) at the back of the bolt. There may be some spring tension on it so be careful. Remove the bolt handle. Do not remove the bolt handle camming block. There are those little spring-loaded balls in there. Next align the take down notch in the firing pin spring so you can pull out the release pin. Pull the firing pin/spring out of bolt. Know you can push out the cross pin that holds the lugs on. Clean her up and put her back together. Make sure you cock the bolt before you put the nut back on.

CJ

CJ <T18man@gateway.net>
NEW CASTLE, DE, USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 14:05:41 (ZULU) 

Texas Brigade says they put a moly coating in the barrel so you don't have to coat your bullets. Any comments on this? They garentee 1/4 inch groups. It's the lowest I've seen.

I have heard that the lead from the bullet to the riflings are longer than needed. Is the lead in the USMC M40 shorter?
I'm not sure if I want an M40 A1, A2, or A3.
What are the advantages and disadvantages.
Nick <hkmp5_2222@yahoo.com>
salt lake, utah, USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 15:34:43 (ZULU) 

What is the width of your Quick-Cuff sling 1 1/4, 1 1/2 ?
Can you use Quick release swivels or is something else required?

Want to order one, need the info.. Thanks...
Tony Y
Iselin, NJ, USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 16:06:57 (ZULU) 

This may not be the place to say this but I JUST HAFTA. I have gotten a lot of help from the fellas here,and the reads just great. But the shortrange shotgunning stuff has got to stop.
We all have erred
hopefully we make changes for the better

T50 cmon back son

Boys if we can"t get the big gripes off face to face don"t do it here

This canuck is going to take a breath now. the doggone ice is startin ta melt WHERES DA BOAT pokey
Pokey <scottmt@fort-frances.lakeheadu.ca>
USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 19:31:17 (ZULU) 

James Hicks <hicks@zso.dec.com>
Seattle, WA, USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 20:11:17 (ZULU) 

First of all,are you sure what you are seeing on your patches is actually copper and not the moly coating being removed from the barrel?

I had a similar situation with a Remington 700 that I own.I kept putting patch after patch and brushing the bore before I realized that what I was seeing was moly.The moly I'm using has a colour not unlike what you might see from copper.Sometimes distinguishing the 2 elements can be somewhat tough to do.

This is a realatively easy thing to check for.STOP using the moly and see if this changes the amount of bluish-green colour on your cleaning patches.If things improve,my best guess is that you are in fact removing more moly than copper out of your barrel.

Now I'm realy gonna go out on a limb here.Is this a new gun?If so,have you properly broken in the barrel with non-coated bullets before using the moly?If not,perhaps you are seeing actual copper at the muzzle because you haven't cleaned enough moly out yet to get to the actual copper?

Perhaps this is the cause?

Hope this helps.Some of the more experienced guys out there might be able to help more.

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 22:40:12 (ZULU) 

OUT HERE !!
Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
Not far from Ft Benning, USA - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 01:04:57 (ZULU) 

Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 03:00:33 (ZULU) 

Hoplite, Inc.
P.O. Box 6599
Shepherdstown, KY
40165
502-955-5014 8am-5pm est
502-957-6540 5pm-8pm est

Will, A Most Excellant idea on rifle camo!

Chao!

peteR
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
bIG-cITY, bY-gAWD, USA - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 03:09:14 (ZULU) 

Hoplite Inc.
3402 Burkland BLVD
Sheperdsville, KY 40165-8942

Number 502-955-5014

In my effort to contribute, I hope this helps.

Bruce H. <citizen__kane@hotmail.com>
Rightherein, Oklahoma, USA - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 03:15:11 (ZULU) 

Thanks AJ

Anthony Rhoda <aguidor@yahoo.com>
N.O., LA, USA - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 05:53:43 (ZULU) 

Operator 223,
You could weigh you rifle and make an Allen wrench with a long enough handle to to apply 65 in/lbs with the Allen wrench on one finger and the weight of the rifle providing the force. A machinest or their handbook will provide how to make the calculation. This is how the wrenches are made to install actions in .22 rf target rifles.

Had big enough ears to get the nickname.

Radar
Radar 90 OMMS <R.va@worldnet.att.net>
Micnopy Beach, Fl, USA - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 06:57:24 (ZULU) 

Wrench,Torque, Pre-set, 65 in/lbs, 1 each

http://www.seekonk.com/torthdle.htm

"Ende"
 

Torsten <lasercon@dialup.globe.de>
Germany - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 14:29:32 (ZULU) 

What the heck, we needed to rotate stock anyway.

Any body got any information re: the "volunteers" going to Kosovo. Email me off-line if you do.
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 16:33:01 (ZULU) 

Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
San Jose, CA, USA - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 17:19:35 (ZULU) 

I want a good durable sniper rifle that is garenteed to shoot 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds. Has anyone had any experience with rifles shooting under 1/2 inch regularly, if so with rifles.
Nick <hkmp5_2222@yahoo>
salt lake, utah, USA - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 20:32:12 (ZULU) 

To Darryl and all the others holding the spray can with their eyes squeezed shut, dreading that first moment...reach down an grab a pair! Just DO it. You screw up it doesn't mean squat. You just repaint till it looks right.

For those of you never intending on taking a tactical class, don't bother painting. If the rifle only sees range use and varmint hunting, you needn't worry about guys like Gooch or Rick picking you out of the fuzz.

War Reserve: I wouldn't sweat this one too much. Recall the primer dry up during the gulf war? This too shall pass.

I finally finished the IOR review. Not bad glass. I'd like to compare them along side a Steiner. Can anyone loan one out? ;-)
For you old goats who like the ancient stuff, I am just finishing up a review of several WWII era sniper scopes. Why am I telling you all this? Well, someone above seemed to associate the site with the Roster alone. I know I have said it before, but guys and gals, this is only a small part of the site. I know we have been slow in getting new stuff out lately but we've all been busy and a little tired. in the works: three seperate HS stocks, two McMillon stocks, a certain sling some of us have come to know and love, and a few other little ditties.

If my poor boy leaves me alone for an hour or 10, I may actually get to them all. NOW I have to go play ball!

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 21:37:48 (ZULU) 

If my TBA rifle is complete when Mike says it will be, delivery time wil have run almost exactly one year. I can't comment on it much beyond that until I get my hands on the thing...

- On an unrelated note, those of us who keep hearing so much about Mike M.'s WunderSling are still eagerly waiting to see one of the promised reviews... and a picture... and maybe some details like the color and width... None of the current sellers seem to provide this info. (Hey Scott, does the 4-6 weeks delivery time from the PX apply to these slings???)

Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
San Jose, CA, USA - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 21:46:41 (ZULU) 

Normally the bluing rubbing off one lug more than the other would indicate that the lugs would need to be lapped to the receiver, but I don't like to hear that it makes a screeching sound when closing the bolt. I'd almost be tempted to call Remington on that, or take it to a gunsmith and have him give 'er a look-see. Maybe when they soldered her on, she was a little crocked. Anyway, if it is in fact the case that lapping the lugs is needed, if I were you, I'd break that barrel off the action beforehand. And it would be nice if you had a worn out remington bbl, you could put it in the vise and screw your action on it and lap without gettin' lapping compound in yer good chamber. If not, just throw the action in the vise, use soft jaws!! What you will need is lapping compound, 100 is way too coarse, galls it up more than anything, the finer ya go the better the results, finish. Also you would want some Dykem or some other type of metal dye. And time you will need. Take the guts out of the action, just need bolt and receiver. Ya don't want lapping compound in the trigger assembly, wreaks havoc!!! Throw some dye on the lugs, let 'er dry, then put some lapping compound on 'em. Work the bolt up and down, over and over, again and again, until you see the dye breaking up. Make a note of the disparity between lugs. throw some more compound on and lap away. Once every so often, wipe the compound off and throw some more dykem on. Lap and lap and lap and lap until the full contact point of each side of the lug is equal. When you think it is, check this by once again dyeing the lugs, and give 'er about 2 or 3 strokes. if the dye is gone you're doin good.
Now, headspace may or may not be affected, depends on how much you had to lap, if it took a week then it was too long and you have no lugs but very strong forearms!! But, in any case, I would have headspace rechecked. If you're over max, you'll probably have to cut the barrel back, face the receiver, or have the recoil lug surface ground (gunsmith needed for these applications). But I doubt you would lap a bolt and go over max unless somethin was awry in your bolt to begin with. Get 'er put back together and fire away, you just accurized yer action. Well, almost, you could get your bolt face lapped too.

I don't like using chamber plugs to lap the action. My theory is don't believe the lapping compound is flushed out unless you can see that it is.

later
 
 

JR <mrpink@rapidnet.com>
rapid city, SD, USA - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 23:36:53 (ZULU) 

You younguns don't tear too much up while i'm gone!
If you make it down to the beach, look me up at Duck's Too. I'll be the ugly one with the Snipercountry hat and t-shirt and a pitcher of Long Island Ice Tea, no cup.

Say a prayer for the kids in Littleton.

Bolt out
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 00:23:51 (ZULU) 

Thanks,

Old Dog
 

Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 01:04:29 (ZULU) 

During my law enforcement career, we did extensive training with IR and low light equipment.
Its not very hard to overcome even the latest generation equipment.
Because of the limited contrasts with night vision equipment, camo patterns are much less of an issue, however you still dont want to silouette yourself.
Some things to consider (in my experiences only)
A flat finish will always attenuate a reflection better than a glossy finish. This will include wet/sweaty skin as well.
Never use starch on anything you will wear in the field. It makes even the darkest/flatest looking colors glow like a ghost.
don't launder your clothing in any kind of soap, but instead plain tap water. some soaps are like starch.
Make sure that any paint or clothing used is not phosphorgenic. ie, wont "glow" under broad band UV (latest generation low light). A good way to test this is with a black light AND a tanning booth.
IR as well as late generation low light can make your eyes glow, so they should be concealed as well as the lenses on your scope.
As a rule of thumb make it dark and dull and you will be ok.
Oh yeah.. tritium glow and the backlighting on these new watches look like a bomb going off in some of the new scopes, so probably wouldnt want to use them, however standard LED backlights arent so bad. I don't know why, its just my observation.

Thats all I can think of for now, but Im sure I'll remember more..
anyway, hope this helps.

BruceH
 

BruceH <citizen__kane@hotmail.com>
Smackdab, in the middle, USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 02:10:26 (ZULU) 

Drop me an E-Mail
Rikano G. Radonich <Radonich@phnx.uswest.net>
Tempe, AZ., USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 05:03:16 (ZULU) 

Benefit vs ?

By painting a ripple finished tactical stock, the rippled effect is lost. The finish then becomes smooth if pretty looking.
Anyone seen such a painted stock in modern night vision? I havent
and I would like to know if there are any tactical disadvantages.
Matt Black
- Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 08:11:28 (ZULU) 

Thanks for the post. I'm glad I perused this evening or I'd have missed it for sure. Check your e-mail.

Ralf
ralf h <sledghamr@aol.com>
Sea, WA, USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 08:21:02 (ZULU) 

I purchased a pair of Sonic II hearing protectors from Precision Laboratories. Here is their website:

http://www.precisionweb.com/

They have an area devoted to their shooters plugs. The cost of the Sonic II last year was $64.

Matt
Matt <Matfie2@aol.com>
TX, USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 09:43:59 (ZULU) 

al
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Greatly Saddened here in , Ohio, USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 11:15:30 (ZULU) 

red
Ohio, USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 12:19:14 (ZULU) 

Al O. your on target with the kids in CO. It's about them not gun control.

out.
Buk <bukowski@bellsouth.net>
InTheCitySwamps,, LA, USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 12:19:49 (ZULU) 

Remington 700 grinding sounds when you close the bolt: I had the same problem and found that the front trigger guard screw was to long. Back it out two turns and see if the noise goes away. If so shorten the screw slightly until it torques down and no noise. Mike
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif, USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 14:41:41 (ZULU) 

I´ll play with it and will give you guy´s a review within the next couple of days.

You can range Objects behind you in the rear view mirror !

"Ende"
Torsten <lasercon@dialup.globe.de>
Germany - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 15:08:21 (ZULU) 

Mike M,
Good call on the front screw, I have had the same problem but forgot about it.

Torsten,
Only you would be ranging objects in the mirror(HA) I will be very interested in your results so let us know. I would also like to know how small of an object you can range and at what distance (Like a 12" steel plate) What was the cost on the 1000??
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 16:35:31 (ZULU) 

Just a canuck waiting for the ice to melt.
Pokey <scottmt@fort-frances.lakeheadu.ca>
USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 16:44:11 (ZULU) 

Looking forward to the review. :)

Mike M.: Thanks for the info.

Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
San Jose, CA, USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 17:19:46 (ZULU) 

Scott Hannah <Hannah@slip.net>
Los Gatos, ca, USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 19:47:04 (ZULU) 

Screeching Remington bolts. Ditto on what Pat said about the front action screw plus make sure you are using grease not oil on the lugs and in the cocking notch. Just a dab will do ya!

Pat on your parralax problem. If your reticle is not focused you can still have parralax when the target is sharp. Remedy is to focus your target sharply and if you still pick up reticle movement, play with your reticle focus and see if it won't go away. Should only have to do this once just to fine tune the reticle. I know its not what the manuals say to do but I think it might help you out.

Out of here
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 21:31:48 (ZULU) 

To all the Law-Enforcement slotted Snipers, Military Snipers and Instructors. Just to let you know what you are missing by not attending Sniper Week, sponsored by Snipercraft.

Today was the first day and there were speakers on maintaining your preformance by the proper hydration methods, a Dr. who discussed medical training for the Sniper, Sam Chestnut from the Oklahoma Police Department, and Lt. Col. Dave Crossman author of On Killing.

There were displays by Southern Precision Armory, Premier Reticle, Remington, Accuracy International, and SRT.

Day two is tomorrow with many other speakers to present. Contact Snipercraft through the links on this site for information about next year. You all should be here.

Bruce G. Buell, NCDS
Senior Instructor, IDRC
Bruce Buell <buellncds@mindspring.com>
Miami, FL, USA - Wednesday, April 21, 1999 at 21:57:11 (ZULU) 

PS: I am also using the IOR QD rings on the 700 Police. No live-fire testing yet but they seem to have potential and are reasonably priced.
 

Thanks :

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Columbia, SC, USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 00:07:12 (ZULU) 

How is that ATI M24 equipped? Any accessories, such as case and tools?
I have read that they are very good rifles. A friend of mine has a "real" M24 made by Rem for the Israelis, it came in a case with all tools and accessories, including a complete spare parts kit. It is topped by a Leupold M3 Scope. It cost him over 5000 bucks. He let me shoot it some, it is nice. He turned down 10 grand for it.(Not from me.)
I was thinking about an M40A1 from TBA, but I have heard that they are taking up to a year for delivery.

Thanks,
 

BillB <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 00:44:53 (ZULU) 

Chris
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
NZ - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 03:23:10 (ZULU) 

Need input on the following item's Apache 7x28 Binos,B&L 15-45x60 Spotting Scope(Is this the M-144 SpottingScope?)and how can you make
Kowa's waterproof and is it worth while doing so,or is it better to
buy a waterproof spottingscope like the B&L or Leupold.Are the
apache's as good as Steiner 8x30B/ST.Any help appreciated.Thanks.
 

Chris

cafarr@excite.com
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
NZ - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 04:57:49 (ZULU) 

Will,
What you saw as a hump in the forest floor is something no trained digger would occupy let alone a trained sniper. Using
a tool entrenching, sand bags to cart away the spoil to a spot where you disperse/cam it up, section of chicken wire and section of hessian
cloth you can make reasonable hide at night. Noise is a function of speed and care. The result is a shallow shell-scrape with a very low canopy of chicken wire covered by hessian (painted to terain)garnished
with local vegetation if appropriate. The height should just allow access/egress and use of visual aids/sights as appropriate.
C. More
- Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 05:28:45 (ZULU) 

Ed <Ed_Engler@softhome.net>
CP Greaves, ROK - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 09:19:25 (ZULU) 

Please post your experiences with these bases here on the roster for the benefit of the readers.

Also, have any of you Savage guys tried the Baer bases?
 
 

T. Simpson: I have very little (read: almost none) experience with the IOR telescopic sights. I like their binoculars quite a bit but for the couple of minutes I got to look at one of their scopes I was not all that impressed. The glass seemed clear enough but I did not test it. I did not realyl care for the reticle type. They also have adjustments in somewhat odd increments if memory serves- I think it is in MILS instead of MOA. At this risk of pissing off some of their users, I'd advise getting something else for now unless you want to relearn the basics. Maybe we can get a loaner for review.

Doc. if you are out there, how about a few comments on you IOR scope? I just am not qualified to give a really useful opinion on these things.
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 12:00:14 (ZULU) 

Hides: Most of the hides you see in books seem to have their origin in WWI or WWII. In the first Big Disagreement snipers had plenty of time to develop elaborate hides and tactics. The lengths to which they went to was simply amazing. A static front allows this. In modern mobile warfare a sniper is not going to have such leeway unless defending a fire base or relatively permanent position.

Tree hides, House hides, bunkers, and other permanent structures all have the disadvantage of being pin pointed and targeted once they are used more than once or twice. While the illustrations of some of the permanent structures look pretty "cool" they have very limited and specific use. A house hide for police is great, but in a war zone the other side just levels two or three houses in the vacinity until the problem goes away. No sense of humor these people...

Of course if you are in an artillery barrage, it sure would be nice to have two feet of logs and some dirt over your head!

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 12:20:18 (ZULU) 

The IOR Valdada scope I have is an 8x56mm, Duplex-reticled hunting scope of the European pattern and is an older model with a 26mm tube. I havent shot with it much but in dusk to full darkness testing it compaired favorably with a 3-10x-class 30mm tubed Zeiss variable (forget the exact model), an older (reputedly brighter than a new one) Vari-X II 3x9 and a late model Vari-X III 3.5x10 40mm. It certainly seems bright enough and clarity is very good. However, the adjustments work out to about 1/5 MOA, a bit odd, which peversly enough is what the adjustments on my "tacticalised" Vari-X II 4x12 AO works out to as well.

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Columbia, SC, USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 13:29:26 (ZULU) 

The stock that broke at the pistol-grip was made by McMillan for their M89 rifle (as far as I can recall...).

Actually there seems to be an ever greater need for folding stocks on sniper rifles. The Israeli's understood this and built one on their, for military purposes, excellent Galil Sniper. Right now, Accuracy International is fielding an excellent folding stock for their rifles and, interesting to all you *#$&%#@! Remington-lovers, sells an aftermarket stock for the Rem 700 that is available in folding and fixed versions. Just check out the website of Accuracy International. Have fun!

Stefan

PS. For all you with a sense of reality; I'll mail them and as to build the same stock for Savage rifles.... :-)

Stefan <stefan@sniperhide.com>
Someplace, Somewhere, The Netherlands - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 14:00:31 (ZULU) 

There is a real interesting little tidbit in the latest issue of Sierra Bullets newsletter "The X-Ring" on bullet seating in OEM barrels with long throats. Its entitled "Sneaking in the Back Door"
something about up top .060" off the Glans, ooops lands!

www.sierrabullets.com OR through the Sniper Country Gun Links page

I received my copy in the mail and don't know if its up on their website but check it out.
 

Al O. ..........Tonight dude...............
 

Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
Big-City, By-Gawd, USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 17:10:17 (ZULU) 

When you were talking about folding stocks you mentioned that,"The Israeli's understood this and built one on their.....excellent Galil
Sniper." That seems like a good observation, but I am wondering if you have ever shot one of these or have tried to use one for shooting other than paper punching? Perhaps you had different experiences than the ones that I and the others in my unit had, having had to endure these cumbersome, unwieldy door stops for several weeks of shooting and training for tactical operations. A few points that I feel I have to make about this rifle.

The stock. Yes, it folds but for what specific purpose? From what we were told by the person who aquired them for our unit and from all the manuals and other info that was with the guns and their kits, the folding stock was to make it easier for the gun to be dropped with parachutists. One idea that I was told is that rather than having the delay of having to get the gun out of a drop bag, they thought it was better to go in with it strapped to your body and then land with it acessible and ready to go. Sounded strange to us, like they were planning on dropping snipers into the middle of a fire fight. Who knows?? I never got a chance to ask the design team, you know?

The stock was solid and with it folded it made it a pain in the a** to carry the weapon in nearly all positions. Every where you tried to get a grip on the rifle (forearm, pistol grip, etc..) the damn stock was in the way. If they were going to go so far as to make a folding stock they should have made it a hollow skeleton type stock of metal instead of how it was.

When the stock was "unfolded", extended, made ready to fire, whatever you want to call it... often the joint was somewhat loose and nearly every rifle had a bit of flex to the joint. It got to where I was wrapping the joint in about 3 ft of 100 MPH tape just to tighten it up.

The magazines were way to tall and when combined with the height of the pistol grip, you were so "tall" when laying in your FFP that we were busted often before we could get the shot off on observed stalks.

We experienced far to many malfunctions for many of us to consider it reliable. Weather it was the magazines or some other internal factor I am not certain.

The trigger was far to heavy and seemed to 'break' at different points every few rounds and was never consistent.

The forearm was clunky and far too square, add to that the bipods that the Galil had, it would catch on every thing that came near it. I once got so tangled up in my spotter when using him as a rest (in an FFP) that we had a WWF match trying to get untangled. The bipods lacked enough adjustments and although very stiff they had a tendency to fold on you just as you found your 'window'.

My main bitch about this weapon was the side rail mounted scope. The scope was mounted to a 2 1/2 inch by 5 inch long metal frame. This mounted to a side rail on the left hand side of the gun and would supposedly hold zero after being removed and remounted (remember the air-droppable theme here?). Well consistent with the rifles other features it never would give you a repeatable zero. So what just leave it on all the time? We did. Another even bigger problem was that the scopes that came with the rifles would experience reticle jump, if thats what you can call it. We would get dialed in and get a string of consistent shots on an 8ft by 8ft cheesecloth with small bullseye targets pasted to them. Then we would start on pop up silouettes and walkers. After perhaps 15 to 25 total shots we would suddenly start missing every one. So we shift back to the bulls to shoot one and POI would often be 7 to 10 inches off of POA. They never jumped consistently, either in number of shots or in a certain direction. Unfortunetly I dont remember the brand or any of the marks on the scopes so I couldnt tell you who made them. All I do remember is that besides shooting very badly they looked very cheap just at a glance.

This is not meant to attempt to discredit your ideas that folding stocks have merit, I believe they do in certain limited situations. I just think that perhaps you should us a different rilfe as the Galil is a poor example.

Excellent Galil sniper rifle?

Not from my experience.

SSG Cady, I tried that link that you posted,
http://www.benning.army.mil/fbhome/29THINF/SNCRSPRE.HTM
but the browser said it was not able to locate that site. Is there another URL that I could try? Does that URL still work for you? Is there another way to access that info?

Pat (MrBullet), What unit is your kid a member of? Did he join LRS in Ashland or did he hook up in Lincoln? I am working on hopping the fence to Maj Brewers group to get in some training and shooting. Email me offline if you have time. Perhaps we will see each other at the match this June.
CCaspers <DeltaVKPS@hotmail.com>
Omaha, Nebraska, USA (you betcha!) - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 19:07:29 (ZULU) 

I have tried several times to reach Walt at Technicarbon for Stefan (and for myself). Have left vms's. Will try again

Jeff A.
Jeff A. <d1k2l3@aol.com>
Hotlanta, Ga, USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 20:05:38 (ZULU) 

SNIPER COURSE PREREQUISITES

1. Must be a VOLUNTEER and have the commanders recomendation.
2. Must be in the grade of E3 thru E7. (WAIVERABLE)
3. Must score 70% in each event of the standard APFT for the appropriate age group which will be conducted on the class start date. All studentsmust achieve the standard.
4. Students must be CMF 11B, 11M or in the CMF 18 series. (NON-WAIVERABLE)
5. Students must have a GT SCORE of 110 or higher. (NON-WAIVERABLE)
6. Students must have 20/20 vision or correctable too 20/200 and have normal color vision.
7. Must show documentation that the last two (2) weapons qualification
with the M-16A1/M16A2 were at the EXPERT level.
8. Must have a MINIMUM of 0ne (1) year retainability. (NON-WAIVERABLE)
9. Must have no adverse Disciplinary history of any kind. (NON-WAIVERABLE)
10. Must be dependable and capable of working alone under adverse conditions for extended periods of time.
11. Must show documentation of a Psychological Evaluation.

COMMANDERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ENSURING THEIR SOLDIERS MEET ALL THE PREREQUISITES AS OUTLINED IN DA PAM 351-4, U.S. ARMY FORMAL SCHOOLS CATALOG. SOLDIERS NOT MEETING THE PREREQUISITES WILL BE RETURNED TO THEIR UNIT.
 

Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
San Jose, CA, USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 21:45:28 (ZULU) 

I'm gonna build one on a small, wooded rise in back of my house that overlooks my back yard. (Yes, it's my land.) If I can successfully do this without all the neighborhood dogs, kids, et al raising the alarm, AND camouflage it to the point that Sweetness never finds it, I figure I will have done alright. If Sweetness detects the hide, I'll probably be living in it!
Will
USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 22:20:09 (ZULU) 

Does anyone know where one can get Federal Gold Medal .308 175gr.(in quanitity at a discount)? Jeff at Hoplite (502-955-5014)does not have any and further more does not know when he will have a new supply. Certainly not time soon!

Thanks
EyeMan <stepmont@dfn.com>
USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 23:05:19 (ZULU) 

Just read your post re: 260 and 300 WM. I remember TorF saying that a Berger 140 vld at 2600 fps will track same as 220MK out of 300WM out to 1000.

Well, I've not had the chance to try but I've noticed that the 140 class 260s even at a moderate load ( ie 44.0 gr N160 or 38.0gr Varget) require less elev. to go from 100 to 300yd. Also, at Feb. match at 500, 600, 700 yd. a friend shooting 140mk was hitting with much less elev. adj. than yours truly. Way less. I was shooting 185 bergers in 308. Rainbow trajectory compared to his 260. I needed 12.5 min. up from 100yd to 500yd. He needed 10 min.

I'll email you about the 142s.

Jeff A.
Jeff A. <d1k2l3@aol.com>
Smyrna, Ga, USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 23:15:23 (ZULU) 

If you decide to pick some up, be sure to shop around. Even vendors in the same issue of Shotgun News will often have a $10 price difference.

I upgraded my shorty AR with the M4 handguards a while back. They work well but they don't fit as tightly as the original guards and there is some rotation. I should fix that someday, but I may instead just abandon the M4 guards in favor of the Surefire Millenium whe the budget can take the hit.

Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
San Jose, CA, USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 23:24:25 (ZULU) 

The AT1-M24 has been sold already. I would answer all of you one at a time but I would wear out the key board. I will let you know when we get our demo's in stock if anyone is interested. We will be getting 3 AT1-C24's pretty soon. One is MINE! I'll let ya'll know when they come in.

Next mission is to get a Norma distributorship. Norma match is the deal man. The canadians use it for thier sniper load and it out performs Federal in an M24 (1:11.2 twist) by far. I'll let you guys know on this too if we can get it.
gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 23:43:43 (ZULU) 

peteR: Oh peteR you are such a tease, always tonite and you never show up! Also did you read read the qualifications for becoming a military sniper. We would have to take a psychological evaluation. Well, leaves the both of us out. I know YOU would flunk that for sure, as would most of all your Western Virginny kinfolk.

Also now I am a spray can enthusiast for making camo colored rifles. I don't have to go spraying grafitti on brick walls any more. Im still pretty impressed with my handiwork (Don't even go there with that word, peteR.) But then again it doesn't take much to impress a Polish Fly-boy like me either.

I'm outta here.

al o
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Scoping Things out here and there in the BOuntiful State of , Ohio, USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 00:23:05 (ZULU) 

Has anyone here ever heard of "Top Hat bedding bushings" There is a company in New Zealand which makes match rifles incorporating this feature. The significance of the "Top Hat" method is that no torque wrench is required. To see some pictures,_(clickhere)_. Could be the future, who knows?

I dont want a folding stock, but on my wish list is a good stock with a butt trap to hold cleaning gear and other dodads. There is a very good design that I like in a factory rifle. The N.E.F. handi rifle "Survivor" series has a nice swing away recoil pad and a nice storage area in the butt. This feature is too practical to ignore on a serious rifle.
 

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 01:12:03 (ZULU) 

Company in Indiana that manufactures some excellent 223 / 308 /300wm match ammo. Gordon Technologies, phone is 219-663-4104. I know Jerry supplies a number of LE agencies here, and many recreational shooters. Good guy, great ammo.
 

Old Dog
 

Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 01:38:10 (ZULU) 

With all the high-tech fabrics out there, like Goretex, I wanted to know what the current thoughts are in the tactical community, in regard to increase in detection by infra-red or other thermo-optical sensors.

Staying dry is fine and dandy, but sacrificing concealment is another story.

In particular, this scent-lock fabric, with a thin layer of charcoal. I know it's something used more by deer hunters than our armed forces. But does someone know how susceptible such material is to thermal sensors.

I'd appreciate any thoughts from the think tank here.
White Night <white_night@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 02:37:16 (ZULU) 

I saw your post, if you need some Federal GM308M2 (175GR MATCH) try Kiesler's in New Albany Indiana. They do discount some if you buy it by the case. About $350 a case.
Phone number is: 812 288 5740.

They had some in stock a couple of weeks ago.

Best of Luck,
BillB <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 03:53:51 (ZULU) 

Mauser 66, NIB ? new in box ????

the 66 is still the most often encountered police sniper rifle in germany, it has a integral magazine and operates with the mauser short bolt system. the barrel and muzzle brake are like on the Mauser 86 (see Photo Gallery). Most of them came with a real nice adjustable walnut stock with something like an anschütz adjustable buttplate.
accuracy is very good and for the price you mentioned and if i am right about nib? then i would go for it.

however ! mauser has sold/closed their sporting weapon section, but the parts and service is being handled by a small company in oberndorf run by former mauser employee´s.

good scope for the above would be a schmidt&bender pm series in a eaw mount.
 

Gooch !

let us - D.west, Al.O and myself paint your new rifle in June, each one of us gets a spraycan in a diffrent color and 3...2....1.....squirt !!!!! please !!!
 

"Ende"
Torsten <Lasercon@dialup.globe.de>
Germany - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 06:24:42 (ZULU) 

I have a real good idea for a camo pattern ! just hold the rifle with one hand and spray paint over it ! Or better, have the Goochman hold it and have three guys paint ! ; )
sprayfreak <ya know>
g-3land - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 06:36:39 (ZULU) 

I have no idea where to start looking so any opinions here would be greatly appreciated. Just give me some advance warning so I can duck :-D
Ralf H <sledghamr@aol.com>
Sea, WA, USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 07:36:53 (ZULU) 

for all you SAKO lovers, I got EAW to make a forward canted Weaver/Picatinney rail for the SAKO TRG 21/41.

Have a two buddies that own one now and have Mk 4 Leupold rings on them. Real nice, and still lower than the original Sako mount.
 

"Ende"
 

Torsten <lasercon @dialup.globe.de>
Germany - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 09:35:36 (ZULU) 

thanks

also, I'm looking to buy the new SIG SSG-3000 sniper rifle too, the people at SIG dont know who carry it, any one know where I can get one?
vpower <vpower2@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 09:54:21 (ZULU) 

Even nowadays, where our Army is using the Diemaco C7A1 (Canadian built M16A3 with Elcan sight), they consider the SLA a normal grunt who carries the Diemaco rifle, AS WELL AS as the Accuracy International SM in .338 Lapua Magnum. Yes, that's right, he's carrying TWO STICKS!!!! Try that during MOUT!!!

Considering all that, I guess you are not surprised that I consider the Israeli option of building a more accurate rifle, while mainaining parts interchangeability, a RELATIVELY sensible one.

On folding stocks: I wouldn't use the extra feature of a folding stock other then during chopper/vehicle operations (or on a jump, but I've never jumped with a weapon, so I couldn't tell....). Walking around with a folded sniper-rifle in a combat zone makes you look pretty silly, dude...

CCaspers, I hope the two of us got a bit closer together here.... Oh, and BTW; Yes, I've shot it. It was on a 500m range and I liked it, although I see your point about using it in combat. Two different things man....

Scott: Why didn't you tell me on the phone yes of ay, that you would be buying the beer.... I just called the wholesaler to find out how much 10 crates would cost me... :-) Ah, Grolsch export you're gonna buy me, eh? Guess not... That's not why I'm coming over. I can have the REAL STUFF over here!

L8er all!

Stefan
Stefan <stefan@snipercountry.com>
Someplace, Somewhere, The Netherlands - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 14:26:51 (ZULU) 

I wouldn't go so far as to call the Galil a long-range sniper rifle... not against 2'x6' targets at 800-1000mtrs, but as a spotters weapon, in a situation where the ranges are limited to 500-6--mtrs, or in a chaotic urban situation like "Watts" or in East L.A. /'91, I would rate it very high.

I have seen Galils with the folding tubular stock... (a real dog), but mine has a "hollow skeleton type stock" with a locking system that is rock solid. It has a tapered locking bolt that is wear compensating, and takes about 40 pounds of push to unlock and fold it. And when folded, it is flat against the rifle, and held there by spring so it doesn't flop... it takes about 5 pounds of pull to open it.
The sling attachment points on the side, make the rifle lie flat on your back, or flat across your chest... very nice.

I like the bipod... it folds backwards, up "inside" the forestock out of the way, not forward, sticking out under the barrel, like the Harris, P&H, and M2.

The 25 round mag "IS" tall, but the 14 round mag is shorter than the grip, and you can get the gun down low.
The mags rotate into the gun much smoother than on a M14/M21.

The trigger was poor when I got it, but it is an easy trigger to work on, and any armorer should be able to clean it up... mine is now a nice clean, predictable two stage.

Mine will shoot 1½" to 2" with de-linked MG ammo, and a junk after market scope mount, and 4x scope. I haven't used good ammo in it yet, may do that this summer, if I can find an original scope mount.
It has never jamed, or failed to feed, fire, or eject a round.

Would I compare it against heavy barreled M70's and M700's... no way. But I would rate it better that most straight 14's, better than the current rage of "scout" rifles, and better than a Colt 15/16 as a spotters weapon.
It is tougher and more flexible than the M14 family, and for targets out to 500-600mtrs, it's better than many others.

My main bitch is that the bolt doesn't stay open on the last shot.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 14:28:59 (ZULU) 

"Does the standard USMC M40A1 have a Woodland Camo stock, or does it have a Forest Camo stock? What other colors does the official USMC M40A1 come in? Arctic White? Desert Camo?"

The name is usually referred to as forest camo. The old ones were smudged-look epoxy colors, but the newer McMillian stocks aren't. That's the official color. Any other color is between you and your paint.... white, tan, etc., it's all do-it-yourself.
Rock <lnbright@juno.com>
TN, USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 15:12:43 (ZULU) 

B. Melick: I believe they came in the "woodland" three tone pattern. But to tell you the truth, from everything I hear they do not stay that way for long. They get painted pretty quickly.

Some comments on the impregnated paint jobs. While they do last forever, they are hardly ideal. When wet they tend to shine a quite a bit. They look good on the range but having a black barrel, action and scope on top of a camo'd stock will not make you blend in very well in the field. To sum it up, do not sweat what ever color a stock comes in as you will end up painting it to match the environment anyway - at least if you get into tactical or competitive shooting in a tactical type environment. This is one reason why I would suggest not paying extra for a factory paint scheme from any of the stock makers. You can do a better job at home. On the other hand, if you are only building a range rifle, then a custom factory paint scheme can look darn neat.

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 16:49:35 (ZULU) 

Thanks,
Doc <docs@fidnet.com>
The Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 18:07:58 (ZULU) 

B. Melick <tmelick@monbar.com>
New Orleans, LA, USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 19:42:10 (ZULU) 

A movie star! Will ya autograph my data book?

Oh I don't have it yet! HINT-HINT..............

have a great weekend guys

Chao!
peteR <pngreiff@aol.com>
in awe city, by-gawd, USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 20:08:45 (ZULU) 

On the turrets, when the dust caps are removed, the adjusters on the scope do not run down to the -0- line of the white metal inner barrel. Is this normal? They both hover around the -2- line. When I back one off more than the other, the opposite will run down further. I'm DEFINATELY not forcing shit, since my education with this scope is nill. Give a guy a hand please! Also, if someone has an extra manual, I'd be grateful.

Cheers all!
Mike
Mike A. <moamike@ix.netcom.com>
WA, USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 23:16:18 (ZULU) 

gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 23:47:54 (ZULU) 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, April 23, 1999 at 23:59:21 (ZULU) 

Kent dont mention RIG grease and peteR's name in the same breath. You know how he is.

al o
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
I've Got the Stuff in , Ohio, USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 01:18:41 (ZULU) 

Sarge
 

Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 02:13:17 (ZULU) 

The 4-12 AO Vari-X II, IOR QD rings and the Bayer/Lightforce tapered mounts result in a rather high mounting but one that I can live with. The ring heigth would be about perfect for a 50mm objective scope. I love the way this rig ballances and handles. Its not nearly as unwieldy to me as it looks.

I have a feeling that I am about to (re)start a major war on this list, but here goes: does anybody have any recomendations on how best to break in this barrel? Somebody told be at one point that is was hammer forged and if that is true then I imagine that break-in should be simplified as compaired to a conventional button or cut rifled barrel.

Also, the first thing I did was pull the action from the stock (already have the inch-lb torque wrench, thank you) and I noted that there are two rub marks on the reciever on the front action ring. It seems that the reciever was bearing in the bedding only at two narrow longitudinal strips where the aluminum bedding block merges inito the sides of the inletting in the stock itself. There was some thin layers of stock material overlaying the first 1/8" of the aluminum bearing surface. I was ondering if such things were common in these guns or with the HS Precision stocks in general.

Also, what is the recomended torque values for the action screws on this thing?
 

Thanks to all:

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Columbia, SC , USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 04:50:52 (ZULU) 

If someone has ballistic data on the 175gr Black Hills moly., I would appreciate the info. At least the muzzle velocity from a 24" barrel with a 1-10 twist. Thanks

Brent
Brent <koldbore@hotmail.com>
Shreveport, Louisiana, USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 05:31:59 (ZULU) 

Dude the first thing you do is go to the range and shoot it! ;-)

Don't worry about anything else until barrel is broken in. On mine I cleaned after every shot for the first box of ammo. Used shooters choice and patches. Still shot under an inch @ 100 yds. and under 2 inches @ 200 yds.

Many individuals just shoot them, don't worry about the minutae or benchrest mantras, and do great!

Mine has the funny looking bedding too, still shoots great, no problem!I have my trigger guard bolts torqued to 65 INCH POUNDS and have not had a problem there either.
 

Brent,

Black Hills lists 2600 fps for their ammo (conditions?)and you might get the same. Do you have access to a chronograph? I would bet Al O's knickers it would track about the same a Federal GM308M2 ammo. You can get the trajectory data of Federals web site www.Federalcartridge.com under Gold Medal match ammo.
BUT, don't expect it to give 100% in the real world.
 

Darrell-Darrell,

Contact Al O. and find out about the lens cover for your next roadie! Tell him they make great eye covers if you sleep during the day.
 

Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
bIG CitY, bY-gAWD, USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 12:51:20 (ZULU) 

Thanks for the quick feedback!

Yes, I understand that the 700P is supposed to be a turnkey precision rifle: thats why I got off the hip for the "big" money (Chandler rifle owners, quit laughing :). However, as a former gunsmith I cant help but go plundering around inside the thing and see what makes it tick. The whole HSPresicion way of doing business is new to me, an old Bisonite and Devcon guy. Your comment on "benchrest mantrtas" is understood.

However, I have now found something that is by no standard a piece a minutae: the barrel makes *hard* contact with the bottom of the barrel channel, from about halfway down the forend back!. That cannot be a cool thing! I did not buy this thing with the idea in mind of having to cut on it before going to the range!
 

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Columbia, SC, USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 14:03:16 (ZULU) 

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 14:18:37 (ZULU) 

The channel can be taken care of ASAP if it presents a problem. I think the field expedient was a "C" cell battery and sandpaper. But that post was made about four months of data ago.

Didn't one of the big three used to commonly put a "pressure point" in the barrel channel?

The H-S precision system is great, no fuss - no muss, nothing to worry about for the "average" shooter, whether LEO, Military, or just a plain ol' vanilla civvie like me ;-)
 

SARGE, A CD would be way cool if You and Marius could swing it.
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, bY-gAWD, USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 14:25:51 (ZULU) 

missed your post on nickled cases,
my 10 cents........

NICKLE IS TOO SHINY FOR FIELD WORK! Dunno on rifle reloading, (MR. Bullet/Bill R.?) but I despise .38 and .45 ACP nickel cases, inconsistant neck sizing and bullet tensions vs "normal" brass-brass.

One more thing to worry about for a nervous nelly like me.

uno-who <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
bIG cITY, bY-gAWD, USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 14:54:14 (ZULU) 

What do ya say, fellas. Can you give ole D. West a helping hand here?

Thanks guys! You're the best.

D. West <westforce@juno.com>
begging for an ammo source, in IL., USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 18:45:44 (ZULU) 

When we moved, the TEMPORARY address was http://www.aspire.net/snipercountry/roster/duty_roster.html.  Now some of you naughties never changed the address once we moved, and kept using the direct address, and not the address via our VERY NICE domain name.  This was all very fine and well while we were on that server.  However, when Ken moved us onto a new server, and mapped the domain name ( www.snipercuontry.com ) to the new server, the fun started.  Those very LOYAL subjects who followed the appropriate link ( http://www.snipercountry.com/roster/duty_roster.html ) kept posting to the active Duty Roster.  The others kept posting to the old roster, as it was still available.  Ken still had other accounts on there, and did not delete it, as we first wanted to ensure that the new server was working properly.

So, what I've done, is to take the posts from the wrong Roster and merged them into this one, into the appropriate places.  I do not have all of them yet, and have asked Ken to email me the Roster as it was on the old machine when he finally took it down.  Once I have that I will also work those in.  In the mean time, I've only archived up to 17 April, as early on 18 April the fun started.  You might want to go back to see what you missed.

For those of you that still have ANY Sniper Country bookmarks pointing to the Aspire accounts, don't you please want to fix them up, to prevent such a mishap in the future?

Marius

Marius Ferreira <mferreira@lantic.co.za>
Pretoria, RSA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 20:17:44 (ZULU) ( or something like that ) 

$%#&$%#^%$#^#$%, maybe one day I'll start remembering to do a "chmod" on the Roster, and Events, and Emporium, after I've worked on them. If any of you get the following when working on any of them, please contact me ASAP, as I'll first hav eot fix before anybody will be able to post.

===========
Internal Server Error

The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator, noc@aspire.net and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might
have done that may have caused the error.
==========

Marius
Marius Ferreira <mferreira@lanctic.co.za>
Pretoria, RSA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 20:51:58 (ZULU) 

Hmmm. Many on this forum will tell you how much better their HS's shot after a proper bedding job. Back when sleeving was in vogue I remember seeing pictures of Remingtons being turned on centered mandrels. It was not a pretty sight. Several light cuts had to be made just to get the darn thing half way true.

For the life of me, I can not see Tom just "shooting it" if the rifle already has "accuracy concerns". If a rifle has a concern, it does not belong at the range. That wasted range time is better spent correcting the details.

Below is a old piece submitted to this forum some time ago. It bears repeating for our newer accuracy buffs.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is not a treatise on bedding, but some of the things I would look for on any stock.

1.) Action screws should not rub the stock holes. Also, the screws should show good relationship between the threads and bearing surface of the head. We do not want banana shaped screws here.

2.) Back side of the recoil lug should bear "perfectly" against the stock. This is hard to achieve without bedding compound. Mating a flat to another flat is almost impossible in this situation. Too many thing to go wrong.
a.) Is the receiver faced off squarely? No.
b.) Is the recoil lug perfectly true? No.
c.) Is the mortise in the stock perfectly square? No.
We need a dab of bedding compound there.

3.) The magazine should float in the stock, and should not rub anything. Epoxy or tig weld it to the action. The bottom of the magazine should not quite touch the floorplate either.

4.) Of course the trigger, safety lever, and bolt handle should not touch the stock.

5.) Some bedders also bed the first couple of inches of the barrel ahead of the action. Optional, works either way. But it is a good idea as it assists the action in supporting the heavy barrel.

6.) I like to bed under the receiver ring and tang only, and not have anything in between. There is nothing to rub the action rails and prevent the action from floating back to its previous position. Others bed all the way back and are successful.

7.) If your action has a middle screw, it normally should not be tight. Just draw it up lightly. Otherwise you could pull the middle of the action down.

8.) As far as bedding the recoil lug goes there are a couple of ways to do it. Some people provide for clearance only under the lug with a tight fit on the front, sides, and rear of the lug. Others only bed the backside. Both ways work. I like to lightly dust the back side of my recoil lugs with moly powder. During barrel vibrations the recoil lug "works" a little against the stock, and this assures me that it doesn't stick a little. This wasn't my idea but I read it in an article by the late Creighton Audette. He was a long time accuracy gunsmith and High Power rifle shooter; and quite a thinker. He is the one who proved that case wall concentricity errors can cause groups to open up. He proved it by firing alternate shots at 300 yards, first with the thin side of the case wall oriented to the left and then oriented to the right. His model 70 would print two quite distinct small groups beside each other. Finally, a group shot with just random orientation of case wall errors and predictably it was much larger than the others. This was all documented in the American Rifleman and in other sources many years ago. It was quite a long article.

I'm certain that I left some things out.

Ron N.
Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 23:29:50 (ZULU) 

Al: The Val-whatever binoculars are great. Very clear.

Bedding: I have been playing with McMillans A4 stock. It is great. Kelly McMillan told me not to bed it so I did. Shoot just like it did in my HS Stock. I asked if the Fiberglass would crush without pilars. Kelly laughed at me and said it would take 100" pounds. I did so and broke the screws. the fiberglass did not crush. I am going to bed it and see how much better it shoots than the HS or the un bedded McMillan.

Report to follow in a few weeks.

Review is just about done on A4 and Leupold M1 Tactical Scope
Mike M <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
calif, USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 23:37:50 (ZULU) 

On nickle cases... I love them, rifle or pistol. They stay clean, are easy to find at the range, last forever, and slip through loading dies like owl poop, and don't get grungy when in contact with leather, or cleaning solvents.
I have 300 pieces of Fed .308 nickle match that started out in a .308 40x, then spent some time necked down in a 7-08, and now are back up to 308 in a M70/SS... havent lost a single case, though about 50 need annealing.

In tactical situations, with pistol, they already know where you are, so seeing the glitter is of no issue, and they are easier to pick up if needed. With rifle, catch the cases at the ejection port... and if case glitter is really an issue, use blackened brass cases, coated with silicone wax.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 00:30:37 (ZULU) 

Hearing protection...decided I can't lose anymore of what God gave me so...need a recommendation on excellent quality, light, adjustable hearing protectors... what say ye?

Thanks,

Bruce
Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 01:16:15 (ZULU) 

Thanx

Jimmy Graham <James_graham@hmis.org>
Youngstown, Ohio, USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 01:33:01 (ZULU) 

Thanx

Jimmy Graham <James_Graham@hmis.org>
Youngstown, Ohio, USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 01:33:47 (ZULU) 

gooch <pte00791@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 02:44:44 (ZULU) 

What a spanking!

I don't think I said shoot bunches of handloads through a rifle did I?

What harm is firing a dozen or so groups going to cause? Destabilization of the North and South Poles of planet Earth?

You mean I HAVE to do all of that gunsmithing before I shoot a rifle for effect? Gosh I should just bought a Chandler, AT-24, or H-S Precision take down..........

Guess this poor uneducated hill billy mind just can't figure out why the first group through his 700 PoliceDM went under 1/2" at 100 yds.
without a gunsmiths help with factory ammo.

What are the accuracy concerns I missed other than a high spot or pressure spot in the barrel channel? Was it e-mailed off Duty Roster and I'm unawares? How does poor Tom know his rifle won't shoot out of the box? He's a gunsmith, me I'ma knuckle dragger.

Like the moly tip for the recoil lug though, how often does it hafta be done? every group?, once?, during maintnance?

#3 How do I weld a detachable magazine to my action?
How will Tom do this??????????? Won't this defeat the purpose of the DM?

Do I have to align my cases in the chamber during the Carlos Match in October. How do I do this during the Match #6 Moving targets, Stress event Match #7, or the High angle shots match #9 ?

help me guys I'ma moron!!!

Burning in Sniper Hell,
peteR
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG BURNING CITY, bY-gAWD, USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 03:30:47 (ZULU) 

On the hearing protection. I can't give you details on the different dB levels but my personal preference is foam plugs. They have great attenuation, fit almost anyone, don't get in the way and weigh next to nothing. Also(and most important to me) they won't contribute to the possibility of developing a bad spot weld (since regular headsets can get in the way of your cheek and stock) This is just a personal prefernce but you know the old rule "Shoot in practice what you shoot in the field". Best of all though, they're dirt cheap :-)

Just my two cents.
Ralf H <sledghamr@aol.com>
Sea, WA, USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 05:54:54 (ZULU) 

Radar-90th 0MMS <R.va@worldnet.att.net>
Micanopy Beach, FL, USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 06:48:43 (ZULU) 

You ask why do I assume that this gun will not shoot out of the box without tweaking. Well, the answer is that I dont. However, there are some fundamental rules about just what it takes to make a rifle not only accurate, but *consistantly* accurate. One of the things discovered over the years is that only rarely is it a good thing to have the stock contacting the barrel, especialy a barrel of substantial mass and with good metalurgy. Sometimes, very light barrels or that are prone to stringing as they heat up are bedded with a bit of upward pressure at the forend tip and this can help groups a great deal, but the problem is that this complicates the factors that regulate barrel harmonics. In other words, you have just added something that can shrink, expand, warp or otherwise fail and have the rifle shooting "somewhere else", as opposed to just having to worry about the barrel and its properties.

Besides, in the case of my 700P it is not an intentional, planned and calculated contact point. Its just plain poorly fitted.

I know I am going to relive the barrel channel and at least look at cleaning up the bedding block/reciever interface a bit in the morning.
*Then* I'm going to just shoot it. If is does good then I wont mess with the bedding block any further. Othewise, I will have to look at other options.
 

-Tom
 
 

Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Columbia, SC, USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 07:13:33 (ZULU) 

Thanks guys
Grey <greywuuf@alaska.net>
Alaska, USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 08:34:47 (ZULU) 

snipped……"There was some thin layers of stock material overlaying the first 1/8" of the aluminum bearing surface." -Tom This would bother me.
 

>…..moly tip for the recoil lug though, how often does it hafta be done?

During installation and maintenance. Moly rubbed onto the back side of the recoil mortise will remain there. Very tenacious stuff. Does it make a provable difference. I don't know, but lubing this surface makes sense to me if indeed the lug does work a little.
 

>#3 How do I weld a detachable magazine to my action?

The part about the magazine is "general" info. One has to look over his particular situation and adopt the basic principles. The magazine should not hinder action flexing.

The part about case wall variations was included mainly as food for thought. Knowing about this phenomenon one can either sort out particularly bad cases, or mark case rims with a notch. One benchrester proved that case wall variations do not matter, but then his chamber/case/throat situation is different than most people's.
 

As an aside. The average shooter looks at his cartridges and assumes they are straight. Put them on a concentricity checker and he'll be shocked at how bad they are. Even Federal Match BTW. Everything contributes to "system accuracy", and it is easy to see how sometimes zigs compensate for zags. Even the wind will sometimes blow an errant shot into a group. Testing a rifle with 10-shot groups will pretty much rule out luck and will deliver the facts.

Good shooting,
Ron N.

Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 09:42:33 (ZULU) 

You asked... "Do I have to align my cases in the chamber during the Carlos Match in October. How do I do this during the Match #6 Moving targets, Stress event Match #7, or the High angle shots match #9?"

...YES, every single one, while Al.O, Mike (the Un-Dude), me, Scott, and 55 others are loadin' as fast as we can, and bangin' and clangin'!! (They're making special sheep targets for you know who!!)

On the H-S stock thing, my PSS is just dropped into the stock, and after a few years, I can see the high spots, though the gun will put 10 rounds of GM into .5" to .6" from a CCB. The Winchester M70/V's have a similar stock from H-S, but they also bed it in with a "Hot glass", a thermal bedding compound, and the fit is tighter.
Which is why the Winchesters will outshoot the Rems everytime (Jeeze, just kidding, guys). Any of the current Win and Rem HB's will shoot around .5" when they're cleaned up, trigger adjusted, and had a few rounds through them.

We all like a rifle that shoots well, and though there are similarities between bench guns, service match guns, and tactical/sniper guns.. (they all came from the same womb), the tactical/sniper guys have slightly different needs.
The bench guys just need to be somewhere on the target, as long as their group is the smallest. Service match shooters get sighter/(fowler) shots to settle in, and their "winning" is the sum of 50, 60, 80, or more rounds...

We don't need the smallest group, but we need to be "on target" with the first round "EVERY TIME"... we shoot a one round match. We don't get sighters, or fowlers, and we don't shoot our "matches" at the same distance each time.

More than concentric case necks, we need plain jane, second class target rifles, that are 110% repeatable, that don't have "Personalities", or glitchy qurks. That come apart for cleaning or trigger work, and go back together, still on zero.

It is easy to loose sight of the overall gun when we pick apart the details.

Now where is my case neck lathe... I'll get that Wascally PeteR at Carlos II.
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 12:07:15 (ZULU) 

Thanks for the clarification of my "burning" questions guys!

They made things a lot cooler for me this morning, I knew that I could hook ya for the info. :-)
 

Tom,

Sounds like you have the right approach figured out already let us know how it works out, It might make a great Hot Tips & Cold SHots along with Rons posting huh?

All this talk of sheep targets, RIG parties, and Smokie Hats is begining to make me wonder if I made the right choice in a .308 for the Carlos match..............
 

Chao

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 14:08:02 (ZULU) 

I would consider your Rem 700 instant free-float by shimming under the recoil lug idea to be a good one for quick experimetation purposes but it dosent strike me a a permanent fix.

Heh...reminds me a just a bit of one of the guys that taught me how to glass a rifle...he got in a Winchester M70 in .458 for some dude that was going to South Africa. It came in a wooden stock and the guy wanted it in a synthetic, so the gunsmith I was sorta apprenticing under ordered in a Bell and Carlson. After hogging out most of the fiberglas shell lining the barrel channel, he procedes to full-length glas it in using some of the first Acraglas Gel than came on the market. Welp, only problem is that his inletting T-screws are for the pre-64 guns and thus the rear screw bottomed out in the post-64s blind rear action screw hole. He didnt notice this and when it cured, the whole rear of the action was sticking up in the air with big gaps exposing the trigger mecanisim. I was sure that he was going to route it back out and reglas it, but instead he mixed up some Gel with some black pigment and patched the holes and then contoured it into the linse of the pistol grip, I didnt know much then but I knew this wasent quite right, and on a dangerous game gun, too! I'm glad I didnt learn everything from him. :)
 

700P update: I have now routed out the forend enough to where it passes the dollar bill test, cleaned up the stock material on the bedding block and have both action screws torqued at 65 inch/lbs. (thanks guys!)I have also broken the Holy Seals on the trigger adjustments and taken it down to a nice, crisp 2.5 lb. pull that will take a six inch drop to thin carpeting on either end and violent bolt manipulaion without -ing. Seems like a nice place to start. Question: what is the Conventional Wisdom on the minimumn safe trigger pull on the factory 700? I have never owned one myself and I was always conservative with customers guns.
 

I home to get on a range today. Thanks again, y'all. :)
 

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Columbia, SC, USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 17:34:03 (ZULU) 

I'll send you a file be e-mail on adjusting them...
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 19:03:55 (ZULU) 

A freind and fellow shooter bought some Vithavouri powder a while back. He tells me it is VV 24N64. He says he found info. about loading for .243 Winchester. He wants to know if it would work in 6.5mm/08 with the 140 gr. class bullets. The 260 rem (6.5mm/08) has be come a very popular round in the tactical matches here in Ga. and Ala. to be sure.

This man, Hook Boutin, has 8 lbs. of 24N64 and he is a big fan of the 6.5mm/08. He wants to load the 140 gr bullets with this powder if it is appropriate. He and Tony Sporri have built several tactical style rifles chambered for this round. More and more are wanting this chambering.

Anyway, please let me know if this powder is good for the 6.5/08. He asked me to find out. Thanks....

Pat:

Did you get my email the other day? Listen, I loaded the 142 match kings with 44.0 gr. N160 and shot them in the match at Ft. Benning, yesterday. The ranges were 100, 200, and 300 yds; with 10 shots at ea. range. Shot the best score I've ever done. Do try the 142s with N160.

Jeff A.
 

Jeff A. <d1k2l3@aol.com>
Smyrna, Ga, USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 22:37:20 (ZULU) 

Thanks for your input on nightvision detection.

I checked out that link on roomtemp IR. Amazing technology.

Do you gentlemen know if GoreTex increases exposure, with all its weatherproof lamination.

This scent-lock fabric, now used by hunters, may be a good counter-measure. It's either carbon or charcoal material. I have yet to put the theory to the test. When you think about it: scent is somewhat related to heat. It you can suppress the scent, then perhaps the heat you give off is reduced too. The manufacturer didn't have a clue about this. Like you say though, Ed. It may be a bit too toasty within.

Regards
 
 
 
 
 

M Leggett <M_Leggett@ibm.net>
USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 22:49:06 (ZULU) 

Pete, still have not uncorked that Varget. IMR 4064 is still punching small groups and I can't bring myself to start over.

Well I have Old Dogs rifle shooting to well for any lawyer but hell I can't think of an excuse to not ship it to him, so off it goes Monday.

Al, I've been using the binoculars to spy on bad guys for the last couple of days. The more I use them the more I like them.

Gooch, I made your sling. I will ship it Monday.

Darren, get your head and body closer to the ground and you will start shooting smaller groups. Use that towel trick I showed you or make a bean bag for the rear. Buy case lots of ammo once you find something that works.

Guys the higher you get off the ground the less stable you are. Let the rifle and the bags do most of the work for you.

I have tested Remingtons latest batch of 168 grain match 308. They must have changed something because this stuff shoots very well. Tried some two years ago and it stunk up the range

Latest class went well. Slings are almost caught up with(in time to start on next orders)

Mike the UnDude
Mike M <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif, USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 23:25:08 (ZULU) 

I gotta find some soon, like yesterday.

I know someone has this under their boonie hat out there reading the Roster.
PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE. Pretty Please with Al O. on top.
Someone just point this Tennessee hill-billy in the right direction and I'll take it from there.

I'll even consider trading my current girl-friend for the information.
(WARNING!!! She's from Chicago, so be warned with trade.)
NO REFUNDS.
 
 

D. West <westforce@juno.com>
about to move, from IL., USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 02:48:30 (ZULU) 

HUMMMmmmmmmmm.......... ;-)
 
 

D.W. <same-thing>
USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 02:51:34 (ZULU) 

Gooch
gooch <pte007901@mail.wvnet.edu>
USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 03:26:42 (ZULU) 

To all,
To those of you who followed the 3.5x10LR problem and who wrote with suggestions, there is a problem!!!! I borrowed a 6.5x20 leupold and did "NOT" have any of the problems I was having with the LRs I will call Leupold tomorrw and find out what the deal is. I have two of them and they are both doing it and my shooting buddy just bought a new one and he said he is having about the same problem but thought it might be his eyes until he shot his other rifle with a 4.5x14 and the 100yd paster was clear and sharp. I can't believe the luck I have!!! Maybe its because my last name is "Murphy".......Nah.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 03:40:00 (ZULU) 

After an initial ten rounds of (bang!)(patch)(patch)(brush)(brush)(brush)(brush)(patch)(patch)(bang!)using some notoriouly crappy Argentine military ball, I was ready to shoot my first official groups "for record". I am thinking to myself, "Hmmmm...a one inch group at 35 yards with the AFN ball. Oh, well. That stuff is garbage, after all. Still, I would think it would do a bit better at 35 yards..."

So I move to 100 yards and break out the match ammo, a known good handload with the 168 MK, 42.5 gr. ACC 25250 in weight-segregated LC Match cases, all trimmed, trued and good to go.

I know I am in trouble when the first two shots were seperated by six inches. I finish the string of five and clean the barrel again. The rest of the group is not much better, clustering around the first hole in a 3 MOA circle. Uh, oh. Not a good start.

As I continue to shoot, I, the rifle or both get better, but not enough better. The last of four groups is seven rounds into 2.25 MOA.

Puzzled, I pull the bolt again and look up the bore. Nothing funny there. So, if it aint the breech end...

I look at the muzzle and am most unhappy with whence I see: instead of a nice, even 45 degree or so bevel centered around the muzzle, the bevel describes an arch aroung the bottom 50% of the muzzle while the bore at the top terminates with a nice, sharp 90 degree corner to the face of the barrel. In simple terms, the crown is completly f**ked up on my brand-new and rather expensive precison rifle direct from the from the factory! I could have done a better job with a rusty hacksaw and a dull drill bit!
 

So now I suppose I either have to ship it back to Remington (any idea of an ETA for return?) or try and redo it by hand. I dont realy have the proper tooling to do the job to my satisfaction unless I do the old electric drill and brass roundhead screw trick. This is one of those times I realy, realy wish I had a lathe!
 

Yaknow, Plan A was to get a heavy barreled Howa action and build it up in a McMillan stock, but I couldnt get one and the Remington was avialble localy in town. I am begining to wish I had ordered in *any* Howa action, trashed the factory barrel and built it from the grownd up. I expect that this is what I will do next time, for sure.
 

-Tom
Disgusted in Columbia
 
 

Tom Simpson <bullet45@usit.net>
Columbia, SC, USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 06:09:43 (ZULU) 

No, I'm not trying to start something, I really do not know. You may e-mail me off-line, or clue me in on the roster.

(Please, be gentle...?)

Thanks,
Dennis
dennis <usmcspud@aol.com>
merced, ca, USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 06:45:46 (ZULU) 

I'm not familiar with the VV 24N64. It's probably listed in VV's or Lapua's reloadingmanual. I don't have them in front of me now. I'm working... (It may be a powder for .50BMG )

To Dennis, re. 6.5X55 vs. .260rem.

The .260 fit in a Rem700SA wich is the "standard" rifle in the US.

In a longer action and due to the supply of quality 6.5X55 matchammo the .260 doesn't stand a chance in Scandinavia. Even .308 matchammo are outperformed and outnumbered by the 6.5X55. The Norma .308 Black Diamond-ammo mentioned earlier in the roster do not win ANY competitions in Norway.

Take a look at this listing from Raufoss (.50BMG multipurpose inventor/manufacturer):

http://www.dfs.no/salg/ammo.htm

Lapua and Norma have similar listings.

PS: It's quite fun to see Jeff A. ending up with a standard 6.5X55 load in his .260rem, 142gr bullet 44gr.VV N160 :-)
 
 

TorF <tor.fleime@aftenposten.no>
Oslo, Norway - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 08:32:12 (ZULU) 

To All - I needed some ammo to go to Mineral Wells,Tx. for a shoot in the second week of May. I started looking in March and I had to settle on Cabelas shooting catalog. I bought 200 rounds of the 175 Black Hills moly. I could not find anyone with a case of the 175gr match - Federal or otherwise.

Gooch - How does the Storm Mountain schedule look for next year? I would sure like to come up and shoot with you guys.

Stay safe
Brent
 

Brent <koldbore@hotmail.com>
Shreveport, Louisiana, USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 08:34:03 (ZULU) 

al
Al OStapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
OOOOOO's and AAAAAHHHHH's from the Great State of Northeast, Ohio, USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 09:19:56 (ZULU) 

al
Al OStapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
OOOOOO's and AAAAAHHHHH's from the Great State of Northeast, Ohio, USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 09:20:39 (ZULU) 

Congrats Dude! The fun has just started..............

Todays range qualification for me [AGAIN? :-)]and I'll pass on some of that old salt s^&T/ that I was blessed with: "Shoot each round like its your last one!"

Torf,
The only good cartridge to come from Sweden was the 36Dx24x36IB
(Improved Bikini) EVERYBODY knows that dude! ;-)

Well (gulp) ofta the range again...............
 

Chao (and POW!)
 
 
 

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
bIG cITY, bY-gAWD, USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 11:47:33 (ZULU) 

I went to that site you recomended...

http://www.dfs.no/salg/ammo.htm

... and man!!! they need a spell checker REAL BAD!!
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 12:38:20 (ZULU) 

Does anyone have a detailed list (including phone numbers, P.O.C., and website URLs) for Tapered bases fro Remington 700 LONG Action?!?

I've tried Badger Ordanance but they are VERY difficult to contact and do business with.

Thanks in advance to all.
Brian M. <slapsho7@hotmail.com>
Irvine, CA, USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 13:04:35 (ZULU) 

Bruce
Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 16:11:41 (ZULU) 

Re: Spell checker.

So does this list! :-D
Ralf H <sledghamr@ao.com>
Sea, WA, USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 16:16:11 (ZULU) 

Bruce: I like the Peltor Shotgunner 6 earmuffs. They are tapered at the bottom to allow you to shoot from a stock and still get a good cheek weld.

B. Melick <tmelick@monbar.com>
New Orleans, LA, USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 16:42:16 (ZULU) 

Yu don spele yur e-male adress so gud ether, it caim bak

Pablito
Pablito
USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 17:06:56 (ZULU) 

Thanks Chris 

Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
NZ - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 21:49:53 (ZULU) 

• Back to Archives