If the site has already been posted, please accept my apologies.
Time constraints have pruned my "lurking" to once a week.

>
 

Utgardaloki <utgardaloki@law.com>
Illinois, USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 01:57:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 157.178.1.101)

Utgardaloki <Utgardaloki@law.com>
Illinois, USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 02:04:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 157.178.1.101)

Has anyone seen the new Choat folding stock for bolt guns? NIce full page add and priced under $300, whats up with this. Lists all the features we should want. Has anyone used or seen one?

Thanks
MJ
MJ <montereyjack@kmenterprises.com>
Monterey, Left, USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 02:13:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 165.236.189.200)

Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 02:37:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.148)

Thanks for your feedback. Pat, in answer to your question, I'm sure it would be me found wanting, and not the rifles, at 800yds+!

Any more opinion welcomed. Also, anyone got the good oil on nightforce scopes?

Justin
Justin <srg@q-net.net.au>
Perth, WA, Australia - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 05:27:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 203.59.120.3)

Paul M.
Paul M. <prmayne@ala.net>
USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 07:58:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.2.25.178)

There is a comment several posts above this one where someone cut and pasted Gale McLillan's comments without giving him credit for the words. Just my opinion...but to me, that's a major no-no.
 

Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 11:53:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.20.190.1)

Shooting handloaded 175 sierras with either 44 gr Varget or 43.5 of IMR 4064, shot five different five shot patterns.

I won't quote stats, cause I'm not to be trusted with a ruler or any other precision measuring device in the field.

Let's just say anything that wasn't touching the same hole was my fault. The last five shot group looked like one ragged hole at 100 yards, maybe the width of one and a half bullets at it's widest (that's the narrow dimension of the bullet for you wise guys).

I finally have a rifle that I can comfortably say shoots WAY BETTER THAN I DO.

By posting this, I have probably ensured that George will be too busy to take my next custom job, but the guy deserves the credit.
 

Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 12:07:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.20.190.1)

Best kept secret in Pennsylvania is D&R Sports Center at www.dnrsports.com they have Federal GM308M in 168 or 175 for $13.42 a box! Harris bipods for $45.30! It's worth checking out.

Danny
Danny Reever <dreever@supernet.com>
Arendtsville, Pa, USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 12:30:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 165.83.118.152)

I just finished re-reading "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross and in the book the two guys out shooting PD's in Wyoming have a laptop that they have ballistics program on.THey used it quite effectively against a 4 or 5 varmints they rean into out there :)

Two questions: This seems a good idea to me, for out in the field busting varminsts. What are some of the pro's and cons of the various ballistics programs?

Second Question:

I was just looking at my 3com Palm Pilot and had a great idea....Does anyone know of a ballistics program for the Palm or know someone with the skills to write one? :)

How about having all your ballistics tables and loads in your shirt pocket...Palms are cheap these days too.
 

Bob Jiantonio <bobj@freenameregistry.com>
Venice, FL , USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 15:25:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.8.32.175)

More than a few people have tried to write computer code to get the little pilots to run ballistics, but nobody has suceeded. They just don't have the smarts.

Most longrange shooters run the numbers at home, and make notes in a log book, and verify (important!!) the data in the field.

I think the main use of the programs is to run "What if" scenerios, comparing one bullet (or other variable) to others.
Some programs are very accurate, and some bullet makers BC's are very accurate...

But many other programs use old protocols, and many bullet makers "Guess" at the BC, using a form/shape chart, like the old "Dupont" chart... so the data may not play in the field at all.

If you run your data at home, and make notes on a page, there isn't any reason to have a computer in the field.

And think ny rmuch room the laptop will take in your ice cooler... it gets hot in South Dakota, in August, out on the flats ;)

Pablito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 16:38:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.125)

Jim <broonsma@prodigy.net>
PDX, Or, USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 18:00:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.255.8.161)

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 18:22:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.143.61.86)

Can you load a list of data... like come range up's and/or wind data, and page or scroll through it on the watch? It would beat a paper taped to the stock.

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 18:35:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.49)

Re: M-1 original caliber trivia (Ans.: .276 Pedersen) The answer is in "Hatcher's Notebook", available at amazon.com and probably several other places. If you don't have a copy, shame on you.

Re: Bob J's post and Pablito's reply: Ballistic calculations take a good bit of computing power, where the Palm is kind of short; it should be possible, but would take some fairly involved programming, for a possibly very limited market. Also, Palm programming tools aren't nearly as available as those for other platforms.

Pablito's right on the proper use for programs; if you get one, sight in at 200 yards, and expect to make first-shot hits at eleventy-six hundred yards, you're going to be disappointed. If you use them to get some what-if figures, and then check those figures on the range, and THEN make some corrections to the figures based on the experience, you can make things a lot easier on yourself.
Chuck Kennedy <cwkenn@lcc.net>
Crockett, TX, USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 18:45:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.34.50.35)

I recently purchased a Rem 700 Sendero 270 and wanted to know if anyone had any information on match ammo in 270. I have not been able to find any yet. If anyone reloads 270 with Sierra bullets I would be very interested in what you have accomplished.

Thanks in advance,

Bryan
Bryan <bherman699@aol.com>
CA, USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 19:01:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.200.28)

OOOPS! Thanks for fixing.

Marius
Marius <mferreira@intekom.co.za>
RSA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 19:22:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 196.15.183.96)

Rick Boucher:You sent me a ton of info a year or so ago on mil-dots and how to use them. They have helped a lot and I shared them with the "Sharpshooter Team" were I used to work. I told you then that I was creating a ghille suit and would send you photos when it was finshed. Well,it finally is. I was out circulation because I was in Gleco Ga. at a academy for several months and am still in my rookie year at work so some hobbies have been neglected between work and the wife. If you want those photos give me a yell.
Stagger 10-42
Stagger Lee <lmcpher104@Aol.com>
Terre Haute, In, USA - Friday, April 21, 2000 at 22:42:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.178)

Ballistic Programs - Great for getting you on paper, not necessarily the center of the paper though. Also great for what if'ing changes from your home range data to a new range data and getting "on paper". Hitting PDs at range using a computer, movietone time. Even the SS computer model won't do that. If the computer program only takes one BC for a bullet then it is very suspect as to acuracy as the BC changes with bullet speed. As Lito stated, some of the bullet manufacturers are fast and loose with their BCs. Sierra just changed theirs to a much more realistic number that more closely matches bullet performance. And I'll be damed if I'll lose cooler space to an ugly slab of plastic. SD or not!

Gooch - I never leave sling swivels attached to my weapon unless my sling is around my arm and in the shoot position. Too many carelessly carry their weapon with the sling and wonder why it banged against something hard enough to screw things up. Either carry it in your hands or bag it until you are in position. In either case the sling swivels are not needed in my humble opinion, which, like a**holes, everyone has at least one of. :)

Rick

Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 01:24:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.207)

Pat T
Pat T <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 01:54:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)

Here's the link to the barrel breakin comments.

http://204.235.96.21/NonCGI/Forum3/HTML/000896.html
 

gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 02:26:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.158)

Stagger, some schools teach sling shooting. I do. You never know when that will be your only shot. Many schools spend little time on slings because they beleive you will not take a slung shot. Now since I learned most of my field craft from killing fury creature for food, I learned that you dont always have time to make a neat little shooting position. You may have to drop and hit it. That is why I came up with my sling.

On Sling Swivels. I wish someone would come up with something better than what is out there.I have broken everything but the center button heavy target models, but they rattle like hell. I tape or use the elastic holders to keep everything quiet. I would think the best system out there is the new one from McMillan useing the center button swivels and embedding the recepticales in the stock.

Balistic Programs are as good as BDC's, close but no cigar!

Well I heard from El Sewing Machine Repair that I can pick up my machine Monday. Thats good I have slings to sew. Lets hope it works longer than after the fixed it last week.

Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 02:54:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.193)

Couple of questions on swivels and postion shooting. I'm thinking of sending my rifle back to McMillan and having a Freeland rail installed. Is it worth it? With the proper handstops/swivels attached it appeared much more user friendly in adjusting a more comfortable hand postion using the sling. Would swivels setup in the rail be stronger vs in the stock? Do any of you use the handstops for your sling attachment instead of just the swivel?

Mike, I would like to buy one of your slings and have the cuff sewn into a jacket, but I need the accessory pockets for all my gear. Do you know anyone that makes a quality shooting jacket that has, or could be set up with accessory pockets? Thanks, MG
MG <mg6680@msn.com>
USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 09:58:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.10.133.25)

Out
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 13:16:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.152)

I recently fitted a Freelands (or non-Anschutz, in any event) rail to the forend on my 700PSS and so far I realy like this setup. The reason I did this was primarlily becasue I intend to shoot this gun in some NRA Long Range matches (my primary access to 600 and 1000 yard KD ranges) and I thought a handstop would be, well, handy. I ordered in a rail and handstop from Champion Shooters Supply for about $50 total, then locked the stock down in the vice on my milling machine. A few carefuly calculated passes with a 1/2" end mill and it dropped right in. I then drilled and tapped the aluminum channel that runs inside the forend with a 10-24 tap, countersunk the screws, used Brownells baking laquer to give it the proper tactical black finish and it was done. Then, I took then handstop and drilled and tapped it for an Uncle Mikes swivel stud in order to hook up one of Mike's Model One Military slings or it can still be used with an NRA-type cuff sling and intended. I also machined out some T-nuts to fit the rail and then drilled and tapped them to accept Uncle Mike's studs as well so I can use the rail with the Tactical Intervention sling, attach a Harris bipod, all of the things I could do with the original studs, only I can now place the studs anywhere along the rail I want. Realy, I am kinda' suprized that nobody markets these already. And, yes, in the case of my 700PSS it did make the forend a fair bit more rigid. I dont see it either hurting or helping a McMillan all that much, though.
 

And a quick note of thanks To Mike Miller, who took special pains in order to try and get my sling to me in time for a match. Furthermore, the sling is every bit as well thought out and executed, and useful, as everybody here said it would be. Good stuff.
 

And how about Miami this morning? I know figuring out who the good and bad guys in this case might be tricky, but the INS guys seemed to do a decent job of pulling it off, in any event. There is that unfortunate photo of the INS guy with the MP5 covering little Elian and the adult holding him. May or may not be within tactical doctrine but either way it dosent look too good on TV. Still, nobody got hurt.
 

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 13:31:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

To Jim Mitchell,
Lets not confuse a shooting sling with a carry strap. The 98k mauser sling has to be about the worst design ever to try to shoot with.

I dont know how much help this will be for those newfangled rifles. but for the old guns, I find that only the Springfields, Enfields, M1As, and M1 garands have the swivels in the proper location to allow the use of a shooting sling period.
The 98 mausers, 96 Swedish mausers, M39 Mosin Nagants, etc. have the front swivel located too far forward for a proper shooting sling.
For these type of rifles with a handguard I found an easy fix. I made a strap out of that 2 inch wide black nylon or whatever it is that Mikes Undude tactical sling is made of and sewed a lot of velcro on it, and just use it instead the front swivel, You just wrap it around the stock and handguard of the rifle. The actual sling is made out of the same stuff with one end of the sling folded over and sewn shut to make a loop to attach to the velcro strap. Mine even has the quick detach coupling and it works on all of these old rifles without any alteration to the rifle at all. I am not in the business of making slings so just make your own or beg the Undude to do it for you.

Has anyone ever seen a Florida panther in the wild? Me neither! Any yet these big cats dont wear Ghille suits.
I just finished a good book called "Cry of the Panther" by Jim McMullen. This book was written in 1984 so you might find it in your public library. Mr McMullen is a Vietnam Vet and became obsessed with the Florida Panther to save it from extinction. He was so obsessed with these panthers, that he actually invented a step by step process to become a panther himself. In this book you will learn how to use all of your senses the way that a panther does. and includes step by step instructions on how to develop Panther Eye, Panther smell, Panther Foot, Swamp Eye, Yoga excercises, self hypnosis, and Blasting techniques for the nose. At the same time you will learn how he went about healing himself from Post Tramatic Stress syndrome. It was pretty interesting reading. I just thought I would mention it.

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 13:42:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.143.42.144)

Come on guys, get off the poop! You will feel better for it.
 

A humble Bolt requesting advise and setting up special folder for it, OUT!
 

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 15:26:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.145.36)

On Jackets: Take your BDU Shirt and sew a couple of belt type loops in the sleve. Slip the cuff through them and you have it. To carry items get a vest. I use a BlackHawk because I like the camelback feature plus they make about 1000 different versions. Get OD! It will take about 100.00 worth of paint to change a black one to camo.

Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 16:15:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.59)

GLOCK 20
10 mm
20 series
fired approx. 400 rounds
pristine condition
2 before ban clips
holster
cleaning kit
approx price $600.00

please send info to hawaiiahawk@aol.com
 

Ed <hawaiihawk@aol.com>
Flag, AZ, USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 17:10:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.171.42.215)

Welcome to the site... I seem to recognize that "Twang" in your voice when you said "Cosine", Pilgrim... so if I know you from some shooting event... glad to have you here. ;)
We need people that can count to 10 with their hands in their pockets ;))... I crash at 6 or 7.

Tshoes...
I'll vote with the Gooch... Norma, if you have to shoot factory (and can afford it)... and keep the brass... it's THE BEST there is!
Fed GM, has slipped in the past years, and for second choice, I'd go with Winchester Match.
My prefered load is 44gr of Varget, Sierra 175MK's, and military, or heavy civilian cases, and fed 215M primers.

MG...
I have a rail on a position stock, and I use it from time to time to shoot iron sights... but I don't shoot formal "High Power" matches.
The rail certainly won't hurt a dual purpose rifle.

Tom...
When you milled out the bottom of the PSS stock... did you hit aluminum before you got deep enough for the rail, or were you still cutting in "kevlar".

Bravo-Dudeski...
Cosine, cosine, cosine! See... no problemo... Oh jeez, the monitor is going dim!

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 21:01:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.61)

For those of you looking into a rifle that will bring you joy and confidence, may I suggest:
http://www.ironbrigadearmory.com/home.html
http://www.best.com/~tactical/tenants/norcalprecision/

It is a month after the shipping date and I still have not received my entire order. If he had really been planning ahead for my order, all that stuff would have been ordered weeks or months in advance of him starting to build my rifle.

If I thought he would step up to the plate and by my rifle back, I would send it back tomorrow.

Just my 2 cents, to clarify what many of you have suspected for some time.
-Steve

Steve <slhoenig@mindspring.com>
CA, USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 21:35:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.222.240)

CJ
Cayley J Carson <t18man@gateway.net>
new castle, DE, USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 22:48:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.10.144.162)

When I milled the forend out, I ran into the aluminum a bit for the last 1-1.5 inches or so towards the tip. From about the position of the second factory swivel hole on back it was pure...Kevlar...plastic...whatever. Seemed pretty much like foam to me, but a better grade than found in Bell and Carlsons and the like. It milled beautifuly, though. The aluminum was extreemly thin in a couple of places, perhaps 1/16" or so, in others I had plenty to screw into. I used a total of seven screws. The aluminum ends about, I'd guess from memory, about 1.5 inches from the tip, BTW.
 

-Tom
Tom Simspon <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Columbia, SC, USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 22:54:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

When I milled the forend out, I ran into the aluminum a bit for the last 1-1.5 inches or so towards the tip. From about the position of the second factory swivel hole on back it was pure...Kevlar...plastic...whatever. Seemed pretty much like foam to me, but a better grade than found in Bell and Carlsons and the like. It milled beautifuly, though. The aluminum was extreemly thin in a couple of places, perhaps 1/16" or so, in others I had plenty to screw into. I used a total of seven screws. The aluminum ends about, I'd guess from memory, about 1.5 inches from the tip, BTW.
 

-Tom
Tom Simspon <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Columbia, SC, USA - Saturday, April 22, 2000 at 22:56:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

Does anybody have an opinion about millett rings? Does the angle-lock system work well, will they come back to zero? I am thinking about putting them on a colt H-bar flat-top, and I want to be capable of taking rings off to shoot w/iron sights.

Thank you, Mark Wall
mark wall <markwall88@hotmail.com>
carbomdale, IL, USA - Sunday, April 23, 2000 at 00:31:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.235.13.163)

MG - On the rail, think in terms of moving the bipod to the rear as well as the sling. Thus the rail can be used with the iron sight crowd as well as the tac crowd. When engaging moving or multiple targets, the bipod placed to the rear is a plus. This allows the barrel to be moved with minimum movement of the stock. This translates to a faster transition to target and a smoother swing on target. Remember whent he target is stationarty and far away, move the bipod to the end of the forestock for maximum stability, while for multiple targets or moving targets move the bipod to the trigger group for maximum ease of movement of the muzzle onto target. While the bipod rearward truely sucks on stationary targets it is worth it on those rapid transitions. Our students must engage a head size target at 200 meters in 3 seconds that can appear anywhere over a 7 meter front or a 3 sec, 24 inch chest shot over a 10 meter front at 400. The bipod attached to the front sling swivel is a toughy on those end to end transitions. In the short form yes get the rail. You can use it form multiple uses.

Bravo - been hanging around for some time, who was ran off for using cosin?

Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Sunday, April 23, 2000 at 01:57:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.209)

Confederate
confederate <confederate123@yahoo.com>
possumtown , Mississippi, USA - Sunday, April 23, 2000 at 07:34:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.155.48.30)

I'll throw the first CBS,

SWAT-TV dark blue van and BDU's. I liked the episodes on "Police Story" about tac teams better.
 

Hey Lito wasn't that you playing Bumper Morgan?????????
 

Ladies - Gentleman -

HAVE A SAFE AND HAPPY EASTER, and don't eat all the kids candy.

Holiday Chao!
 

peteR <pngreiff@aol.com>
pretty spring city, By-GaWd, USA - Sunday, April 23, 2000 at 12:07:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.67)

Also about reading wind I have been taught that the wind at mid range to the target are the conditions to watch.I know from experience that when shooting past 500yds those condition at mid range effect my rounds the most.I'm not talking about shooting 1/2 or less MOA I'm talking about getting solid center mass hits on standard iron maidens
out to 850yds. Especially where I shoot in the mountains where the winds vary so much.
There are many out there (benchrest shooters at my club) claim it is the wind closest to the muzzle. It is evident to me that they have not shot past 200yds.
Anyone out there that has used the AICS out in the field I would like to know how you like the stock in shooting positions other than benchrest or prone. thankyou for your time Hondo

Hondo <Hondo852@tmlp.com>
USA - Sunday, April 23, 2000 at 12:21:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.20.8.45)

- Will reconfirm the AICS (not with mine - [Jerry EDM done?] but a friends) in other posn's today.
 

Kevin <kevmich@cadivsion.com>
Canada - Sunday, April 23, 2000 at 14:13:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.132.225)

Thanks for the scope info...For those who might be thinking about a Schmidt & Bender PII scope...I just received an info packet from S&B USA...Here goes (better sit down):
3-12x50 (fixed parallax)...$1555.00
3-12x50 (side focus).......$1785.00
3-12x50 (lighted reticle)..$1905.00
4-16x50 (side focus).......$1870.00
The 34mm rings are made by either Badger Ordnance or Dave Talley (all available thru New England Custom Guns. Each click (or "Klik" as the turrets say) equals 1cm @ 100yds. The adjustment range is 200cm/72" at 100yds. They give a 20% discount to LE and Military on the scopes and rings. For everyone else www.Bearbasin.com had the best prices on the internet. Now that I've returned from the moon, let me see, a scope and rings or a complete PSS with scope, rings/bases, sling and bipod and money let for ammo and a decent school? Not a hard choice on my salary. MG
MG <mg6680@msn.com>
USA - Sunday, April 23, 2000 at 20:37:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.15.153.214)

Black just plan suck but everyone wants it. I sell ten times as many black slings as the good old Army Brown. You wont find a black any thing on my rifles. Brown or OD and lots of paint. Jerry Rice just about cries everytime he makes me a rifle. A week latter it is ugly painted or wrapped in something equally bad looking. Every F'ng SWAT Team around has to have everything black and I just keep telling them its a great color for a B27 Target. Makes it easy to get a site picture.
 

Blackhills is great ammo.
 

It does not have to be a Chandler to be a great rifle. I will put Rice's or Gardner's weapons against anyones! Just get a good one and shoot it. More times than not its the person who cant shoot!

Undude/Mike
MIkeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Sunday, April 23, 2000 at 23:55:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.48)

Hope for the future (not completely a tactical topic)

Picked up a cheap .177 caliber pellet rifle @ a gunshow yesterday. Took my daughter out, explained sight alignment, trigger squeeze, etc. Took her several shots - but she began to get the hang of this stuff - and like it :))

Now she wants to know when 'we' can go to Storm Mountain (wander how she heard about that)... Hopefully down the road - some of youn'z will see Her and myself up for one of the rifle courses.
 

Ken :)

Ken <Ken@Aspire.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 00:34:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

It's getting really bad around here... Just got my custom rifle not too long ago...Problem is - even the Major (my wife) makes fun of the size of the barrel on this thing (26", straight taper, 1.5" at the muzzle). She calls it my .308 towed.... :)
I won't lie about it - it's pretty heavy - but it should be pretty durable. When I get the scope mounted - I will post a link to a picture or two...

Ken turns back to harrassment from his wife (still giggling while ironing her uniform for tomorrow) - but - dreams of the days to come when he gets to the range....

Ken :|
 

Ken <Ken@aspire.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 01:08:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Mike - I know that you weren't refering to the little guys when you were posting. The old standards, and I do mean OLD STANDARDS were there to keep out the little guys though. Then it was realized that bench pressing 500 pounds did not make a good entry man if he was too slow, or had the stamina of an old man like me. I was bouncing on my little girl. Cripes if she sees this post I'm dead meat. Never did understand the black thing. Nothing in nature is black and even at night black stands out as a darker shadow against the grey. Oh well, whatever sells. Guess the original idea of immediate identification is still one of the excuses used. Problem is that one was proved wrong in the seventies when I was working this non-sense back then.

Ken - Started my daughter on the air rifle and standing off hand. She became the captain of her small bore team at UNC-Wilmington and is now a vice cop. Go figure, especially since she majored in MATHMATICS! She's having fun and keeping me grey haired. Divide .308 into the barrel length and you can tell the Major how many calibers that sucker really is. That will make any cannon cocker green with envy.

Running or sitting - Depends upon the tactical situation and if the enemy has even the slightest idea where you are located. In most situations it is best to stay put. Most soldiers do not know that the rifle shot is a dull thump at range. The loud crack is the bullet and the sound is 90 degrees to the shock wave. This gives the wrong direction, so the hunt usually begins in that wrong direction. HOWEVER, if the enemy has arty and has your direction, you are in for a real bad time. If you are holed down you will be better in the hole, if you are on the ground from a hasty FFP then you had better hope on getting out of the area before the first round falls. It will definately increase your hearing loss if you are in the area when the first salso falls.

Reading wind - Agree with Hondo on the mid range. If the wind is read up close and is the most important, then a 5 mph wind would result in a constant moa shift regardless of range. However, as you know, this is not so. As the range increases the wind changes in moa value as is appropriate with the change in bullet velocity. Also you would not have to worry about that pesky cross wind down range that you may miss and causes the right impact in what you thought was a right to left wind. :) Ask our students, they hate our range due to the lovely crossing winds we get at times. Look at the wind through all areas with emphasis on the mid to target area. When the bullet hits max ord it has equal up forces to down forces and is, for all practical purposes, weightless at that time. Winds have a tendency to like that area to move a bullet. That is also the area that is above line of sight by a "few feet" when shooting long range. Helps to explain some of those odd impacts (also known as misses) at times.

Enough babbling for the night. Have fun guys and hold hard.

Rick
 

Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 02:02:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.206.189)

sincearly,
Randy Lovett

Randy Lovett <Popin_Fresh_420@yahoo.com>
USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 02:10:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.161.46.80)

Checkout the archives - that thread was run about 2 months ago.

Ken :)

Ken <Ken@Aspire.Net>
Nokesville, VA, USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 02:22:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

What kind of interest do we have out there for a place to upload pictures of your particular rifle, ghillie suite, item, etc. that is pertainent to this forum? I know alot of youn'z out there don't have a place to make those pictures available...
Well, we could make some server space available for you to place your pic's - then you could post your note on the roster or wherever and just refer to the link to your pictures.

Contact me offline - via email if you're interested. This is made available upon request - and for material that is applicable.

Ken :)

Ken <Ken@Aspire.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 02:27:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

WHICH BRANCH OF THE MILITARY IS BEST?

A Soldier, a Sailor, an Airman, and a Marine got into an argument about which service was "the best". The arguing became so heated the four servicemen failed to see an oncoming truck. They were run over by the truck and killed instantly.

Soon the four servicemen found themselves at the Pearly Gates of Heaven. There, they met Saint Peter and decided that only he could be the ultimate source of truth and honesty. So, the four servicemen asked him, "Saint Peter, which branch of the United States Armed Forces is the best?"

Saint Peter replied, "I can't answer that. However, I will ask God what He thinks the next time I see Him. Meanwhile, thank you for your service on Earth and welcome to Heaven."

Some time later the four servicemen see Saint Peter and remind him of the question they had asked when first entering Heaven. The four servicemen asked Saint Peter if he was able to find the answer. Suddenly, a sparkling white dove lands on Saint Peter's shoulder. In the dove's beak is a note glistening with gold dust. Saint Peter says to the four Servicemen, "Your answer from the Boss. Let's see what He says." Saint Peter opens the note, trumpets blare, gold dust drifts into the air, harps play crescendos, and Saint Peter begins to read the note aloud to the four Servicemen:

MEMORANDUM

FROM: THE ALMIGHTY ONE
TO: Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines

SUBJ: WHICH MILITARY SERVICE IS BEST

1. Gentlemen, all branches of the United States Armed Forces are honorable and noble. Each serves America well and with distinction. Being a serviceman in the United States Military represents a special calling warranting special respect, tribute and dedication.

2. Be proud of that.
 

GOD
USMC(Ret)
Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 02:57:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.169)

I just wanted to say thanks to all who responded to my question about the Sweets Copper Solvent. Great info guys! Now for a more narrowed question. A few of my friends and I are planning to shoot next weekend at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center. Saturday to be exact. Can anyone tell me if there will be any matches that would prevent us from using the range? How much does it cost to get in?
Last question...Does anyone know of a good place to shoot in the Sacramento/Sierra area that is not a bonafied range but is open to the public? Say 300m+ distance?

Many thanks in advance...

Semper Fi my brothers.

Bad Karma
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 05:21:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.77.71.170)

Ken,
Congrads on the daughter/air rifle combo, mines got a couple years yet till shes big enough to hold one of my AG's up, but shes already hell on wheels with "folding fans".
Does the .308-Towed come with the optional muzzle cover as seen at S/M last October?????? Way cool idea, wish I got a pix of it then :-(
 

ofta paint a bit
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
paint bucket city, By-GaWd, USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 11:55:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.23)

lito'
I must disagree, "Oh learned one", I have found the new Federal Match much better than the old stuff of a few years ago. The older Federal Match was so inconsistant I wouldn't even steal the brass!! The new Match is very consistant and shoots great!! I got some from the State Patrol and every piece weighed with in about 1 grain for all 500 rounds. I checked the run out on the bullets and it was "0" for the batch that I tested and like I said, in one of my earlier posts to you, that I had a hard time duplicating the accuracy of the Federal match load in my new 308.

Jeff A,
Just recieved my new Norma brass for the 6.5x284 today so I hopefully will get a chance to get out this week to try it out. I tried the 4831SC and it shot the best so far .3s to .5 but is a tad hot so I need to back it down and see if it still holds the accuracy. I am really wanting to do some long range work with it. I laid out a 1300yd range yesterday at my friends place just 10 min. from my door, hard to beat living in SD and you get a lot of chance to practice your wind reading too(HA).
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 13:36:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)

Anybody got a good place online to purchase (and even more importantly at the moment, price) Nightforce scopes? Also, any general commentary on Nightforce products would be appreciated. Always been a Leupold guy but I am willing to try anything once. :)

Thanks:

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 14:04:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)

The Shooter <kkonen@usa.net>
God bless TX, USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 14:49:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.180.4.205)

Oh, and another question. The grip area on my PSS stock realy dosent fit my hand all that well: the palm swell and all that is fine but I dont like the way the fingers wrap around the front. I think it could use some additional contouring to give my fingers some place positive to rest. I remember seeing some old target pistols that had grip made using someting akin to plastic wood, but a rather ugly shade of green. Blob it on, grip the gun to make an impression perfectly matching your hand and let it set. Cool. Does anybody have any recomendations for a material that would be suitable for this use and a sourse for it?

Thanks:

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
colatown, SC, USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 15:26:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)

I haven't shot any Fed since a year or so ago... bought a bunch of their "Premium: match brass, and the gun went sour... weighed the brass, and it ran from 156 to 174 grains, and velocity spreads were 120 to 140 fps in a 5 shot group (yeah yeah... I knowI can't load fer skit, but...) .
I sent Fed a not so humorious e-mail (aka "Master Brass Pro ;), and they've been trying to get the brass back for a year... got another e-mail from them the first week of March, wanting it back (to see what the problem is)... I told them what the problem is... it's crappy brass!!

And as to your .308 not shooting well... it's probably that bum trigger job you got from that womanizing, dog (and Cat) shooting riffraff ;)

I have yet to touch a gun in the last 3 months... so many wolves, so few ankles ;((

Pablito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 18:30:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.188.89.159)

Phone: (217) 578-3026

Here is the contact for williams trigger Specialties.
They do HK91 Set triggers, I got one done, they used we trigger group and got it down to 2.25Lb. set and 4.25 Lb. off set. I love mine works great and real help my group size over the stock trigger. I can now at 100 yard pull off 3/4" overall group sizes with a 20rnd. clip.
The price of the trigger was $160.00.

Hope this helps

Ernest W. McMillan III (Silicon_Wizzard)
Ernest McMillan III <brmcmie@br.cc.va.us>
Staunton, VA, USA - Monday, April 24, 2000 at 20:34:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 164.106.21.194)

Sacramento Valley Shooting Center is hosting the "No Bull III" match on Saturday on the HP Rifle Silhouette Range. You might want to take a look if you get to the range, very small targets at 500M. About as tough a no-physical-conditioning-required-match as you are likely to see.

The 300 yard public range is open Friday through Tuesday, about $10 for non-members.

Good Shooting,
Dee
Dee T <deeturner@jps.net>
Roseville, CA, USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 00:01:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.119.27.199)

Doen anybody out there know where I can get some tactical-grade Weaver /Picatinny rings for a 8x56mm scope with a 25mm tube diameter? I have one of the older IOR 8x56mm hunting scopes and, after playing with the Badgers, Redfields just dont get it anymore. :)

Thanks:

-Tom

Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown , SC, USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 00:55:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

Make that 26mm. :)

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 01:03:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

Evaluate why you want to be a sniper and think really hard about having to urinate in your pants because you can't get up and move about freely. Think about the isolation of you and your partner as the only ones in the area that are friend and all others wish to do you in. This is not the glamous job shown on television. I've been doing this job since 1968 and now teach the job. There are times in which you are bored to tears or scared shitless. You must function in both conditions and everything in between. To get there you must be able to practice even when you are tired of practice. I don't just mean shooting, I mean crawling at a rate of inches per. Observing an area until your eyeballs fall out, being eaten alive by bugs while you sit in a position fully camouflaged waiting to see if you have been spotted yet, while writing down OR memorizing everything that goes on around you and your assigned target area. And after several days of this you may be told to pick up and haul ass. Think long and hard abut your chosen craft before you commit to it. It can be a real ball buster at times. While ther personal satisfaction can be great for some, it is too musch dedication for the majority of others. Know in your heart what you really want. Never look to the fun side for your decision, look to the crap in your pants side. The calculated taking of a life side.

Enough on this, too old to be a deep thinker, where is the beer! Gooch, need a Guiness!

Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 02:10:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.57)

That No Bull Match sounds good I may try and make it. Sat?

Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 03:15:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.212)

Dudes and undudes. I am looking for any data on the Navy .300 win mag round for inclusion in the next generation TRGT databook.

Any help would be greatly appriciated.

Out

Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 04:41:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.143)

Someone is ripping you off. MG put these us prices on the rooster:

3-12x50 (fixed parallax)...$1555.00
3-12x50 (side focus).......$1785.00
3-12x50 (lighted reticle)..$1905.00
4-16x50 (side focus).......$1870.00
 

Here are som prices in Norway:

$1US = NOK 8,64

6x42 NOK4690.00
1.5-6x42 NOK5990.00
3-12x50 (f.p.) NOK7490.00
4-16x50 (f.p.) NOK9900.00

These prices are included 23% local salestax. You can figure out the exportprice yourself.

This is the link: http://shop.jaktogfriluft.no/
(It's a rather complicated site in Norwegian. start with "jakt")

If you buy a couple of scopes you can have a "free" holiday in Europe... The cheapest return ticket I've seen is about $500...

I'm a bit "offline" at the moment. I lost a close friend and huntingbuddy this week. He was only 45 years old.

TorF
 

TorF <torf@aftenposten.no>
Oslo, Norway - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 12:41:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.212.93.33)

I am wondering what would be a good 1000+ Yard. "Turn you lights out Rifle" for a LEFT HANDER. With---1) A good Drop'em Caliber
2) Twist??
3) Barrel type, length
4) Optics

Any Suggestions??

Eric <flemglobber@earthlink.net>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 13:31:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.38.48.106)

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated
ad <adsjunk@bellsouth.net>
Al, USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 13:38:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.76.238.25)

RL
Ryan London <cyberleap@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 15:42:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 164.58.175.172)

I know this isn't the most appropriate forum for Mini-30 questions, but I thought I'd give it a shot. I carry this carbine on duty, and am trying to get it squared away--I choose to carry it because it fits inside my vehicle and is one of the very few weapons that meets the maximum allowable value cost restriction imposed by my Dept. (In the event it's stolen from the vehicle, I guess, and I were to file a claim?).

Thanks much,
Mark
mandrnorris@cs.com
Mark <MandRNorris@cs.com>
ca, USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 16:58:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.63.56.26)

"Sniping?

I am wondering what would be a good 1000+ Yard. "Turn you lights out Rifle" for a LEFT HANDER. With
1) A good Drop'em Caliber
2) Twist??
3) Barrel type, length
4) Optics

Any Suggestions??

Yup... for 1000+... get a 50 BMG, with a custom left hand action, 45"+ barrel, 12" twist, 16x Mk4-M1 with custom ranging reticle... and a hell of a lot of practice. That might do it...
If the "Drop'em" power is a little on the light side... go to a 20mm Lahti, and a 60" barrel... works real good on Plymouth "Horizons" and Ford "Pinto's"... if this still doesn't have enuff "Drop'em" power, the next step up get's a little drastic!

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Fro the world of "reach out and touch someone"!, USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 18:17:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.188.89.159)

TorF,
Sorry to hear about the passing of your friend, those are always hard esp when their young. I am sure you will keep him alive in your thoughts and memories.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 19:00:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)

On another note, after seeing Mike Sheehans Leupold 25X Spotter I went out and bought one. Very nice little scope!

Undude/Mike
Mike Miller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 20:20:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.41)

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, April 25, 2000 at 20:40:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.188.89.159)

BTW, Remember when people like Bob Glidden raced the pinto with a "hot rodded" 460 cobra jet under the hood? Blow minivans if you want, but nothing with potential (I wouldn't race a pinto though......)

Here I sit trying to make "empty bottles" to "reload". Oh, how artists suffer for their art!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Wednesday, April 26, 2000 at 02:33:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.201)

I have a flat top colt sporter, how high (from base to center of ring) do my scope rings need to be, in order to clear the front sight?

Thanks, Mark
mark wall <markwall88@hotmail.com>
carbondal, IL, USA - Wednesday, April 26, 2000 at 05:51:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.235.13.32)

Bruce Emens <desertdog88@hotmail.com>
Henderson, NV, USA - Wednesday, April 26, 2000 at 07:32:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.240.200.76)

Bruce Emens <desertdog88@hotmail.com>
Henderson, NV, USA - Wednesday, April 26, 2000 at 07:36:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.240.200.146)

Now I may have been reading this site for a spell too long but I instantly thought of LOVELY SHEEPIES! BAHHHH BAHHHHH I don't even want to think what left those "divots" I thought all sheep dippers wore knee pads?

I've had a buddy or two get booted for being too affectionate towards a "groundkeepers most affectionate prize winning Ewe."
 

Mark,
If you go with a 3-9 power scope chances are that over 4 power the scope is going to see right through that front sight because the front sight isn't in the focal plane of the scope. On a flat top AR15 with a front sight I still mount as low as possible. If you have the scope already try holding it up there in about the spot you'd like it to be and see if it is affected by the front sight on it's lowest setting. For cheaper variable power scopes I leave them on one power setting after zeroing since mickying with the power ring usually changes the point of impact(real cheap scopes here folks!) I usually run about 6 power even on my 22lr. and on my AR15 I've got a 6-24. I normally run around 12 power for shooting squirrels on my AR15 and leave the higher magnification for bench shooting on other guns. If you want click on my name to run off to a web page with my ARs on it. If you are just starting to play around with AR15s and are in a learning curve still try out the forums on AR15.com, the AR15 forums are topical and have a section devoted to optics, rifles, uppers, manufactures. It's a pretty decent site aside from some of the stupidity that goes on there. Stay away from the General Discussion forum till you get an idea of the type of morons that hang around in there.
 

I can tell I'm gonna take heat for having such high power glass on an AR15 but I really like to watch those squirrels pop at 300 yards guys! Mirage does suck though!
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
CowpattyTown(where returning from a trip the "smell of poo" reminds you that you're home!), Ca, USA - Wednesday, April 26, 2000 at 07:42:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.165.1.99)

The Israeli military is the biggest current user of the M21, and their choice of mount is the "A.R.M.S. #18" platform, which will take all sorts of scope thingies, including night vision stuff.
They're available from MWG at...

http://www.shadow.net/~mwg/

(MWG also has a new web address, but this one will get you there)

The US generally uses the Brookfield as first choice, but Brookfield keeps going in and out of business every other month. I don't know if they're in business this month, I've lost the schedule ;).

The US also use the A.R.M.S. #18 mount as second choice... not for mechanical reasons, but Dick Swan (Mr. ARMS) sued the US for non-payment, and now the military is having a hissy.

Not to many folks have heard of A.R.M.S., but virtually every accessory rail, scope spacer, rail adaptor, and other sighting gadget or doo-hicky for the AR-15/M16 family of guns, is made by A.R.M.S, or made under their licence... he holds all the patents, and/or copyrights... Dick Swan is a very smart puppy.

Enterprise is a company that fronts for GG&G machine tools, and they sell a knock-off of the Brookfield, and used to sell a knock-off of the A.R.M.S. #18... you can find their ads in the SGN. These knock-offs have some changes to avoid patient infringment problems... as GG&G was tied up in court for years, and now has "Cease and Desist" orders prohibiting them from making, or selling, A.R.M.S. knock-offs

Brownells sells the Enterprise "Brookfield" copy... go here:
http://brownells.com/
Their web site is hard to get around, but keep at it, and you will find it.

Some of the better shooting supply companies, like Bruno's (look in Presision Shooting Magazine) have the "real" Brookfield from time to time.

There are several M21 shooters on this site, of which I'm one...
My preference is the A.R.M.S. #18... with the Brookfield as second, some of the other guys like the Brookfield first... they are both excellent mounts.

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, April 26, 2000 at 10:17:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.115)

Seriously I have to agree with Pablito on which M21 mounts are best. Either the Brookfield or ARM's with the Springfield being a never ran. I have never used the Smith version but it looks like a copy of the Brookfield.

I have been shooting the Black Hills Ammo and I am having very good results. I may be changing from Federal.

LOD Stock. That thing is huge and heavy. Probably why they went out of business. If you want one and dont mind the looks, feel or straining yourself, it is well made. McMillan made them for LOD, based on the LOD Specs. Probably a better Police than field stock.

Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Wednesday, April 26, 2000 at 15:33:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.200.53)

Scott Hannah
hannah@slip.net or
hannahscott@netscape.net
Scott Hannah <hannah@slip.net or hannahscott@netscape.net>
Los Gatos, C.A., USA - Wednesday, April 26, 2000 at 16:06:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.209.6.21)

'Lito: the Brookfield 2000 schedule is now out. Under each month is the statement "to be announced".

Mike: Nope, haven't tried dragging a 105, but got too close to a 75 once, now have to say "hun?" too much :-( You gonna talk about the "weekend" class after the week that I'm in for? Good ad space available!

Now where did I put that bottle opener?
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Wednesday, April 26, 2000 at 17:02:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)

I am looking at buying a Sako TRG-S in 338 Lapua. I know it is more of a hunting rifle than tactical, but I will have it customized at a later date. What scope mounting systems are available for this action? I have a Badger mount on my PSS and I would like something similar for the Sako action. Also, does anybody have experience with the 338 Lapua? I would love to hear experiences, both good and bad.

The Shooter <kkonen@usa.net>
God bless TX, USA - Wednesday, April 26, 2000 at 20:03:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.180.4.4)

There seems to be some misconceptions when I stated the fact that I wanted a "Turn you lights out" Rifle with A "drop'em" Caliber. Yet then again maybe not since it got its point across very well. I did make a typo as far as the mention of 1000+yards I meant 1000+ meters
But now thanks to Keith an his very informative E-mail I may just stick to 1000+ Yards. PS. I never shoot at Cars especialy my favorite the Pinto.
Eric <flemglobber@earthlink.net>
SOSCOM, Ft. Bragg, USA - Wednesday, April 26, 2000 at 20:54:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.38.48.13)

I have been shooting for many years in the North Eastern US. My problem is this: I can not find anywhere to practice long range shots. I have tromped around the woods and fields of New England all of my life and never come across a suitable place to shoot 500+. Does anyone know of any places that will give me that opportunity? If those places do exist in NH, VT, or Maine I will be damned for my inability to find them. I would appreciate any help you might be able to offer. Thank you in Advance.

-Hawk Out

Hawk <Hawk1@sover.net>
NH, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 00:32:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.198.95.190)

some thoughts, if i might, on the
kg <drkg@bright.net>
USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 02:21:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.143.37.165)

some thoughts, if i might, on the "mile shot".

a lot can be, and has been said, about the capabilities of large caliber artillery burning a huge charge, pushing a massive bullet. but i ask: seriously, what do you do with all that recoil? how do you NOT flinch on that trigger? i, myself, belong to the "half a grain in the right place" school. combine that with the Zen Buddhist discipline of trigger squeeze and the Dr. Kervorkian breathing method- i see no finer piece of super long range anti-personnel artillery than the Daisy 1938 Red Ryder lever action repeater. put in a Jewel trigger and a custom Schillen smooth-bore, use a U.S. Kobe i-beam as a bipod and weld the barrel of a Meade 128mm telescope to it and you've got yourself a sniper's dream. 'been customizing mine for years now.

nowlook, i probably shouldn't be saying this, but i trust you gentlemen to not be too loose lipped with this..
Nakotchtzka the russian monkey has a range on the moon all ready for us. he's just waiting for nASA and Hertz to get off it's collective arse with the shuttle service.
Seriously though- I'm first on the list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kg

my club's only got 100 yards, and my 200 yarder is, to the detriment of the nerves of both my Grandmother and her dog, out behind my Grandfather's barn (my bench rest is the shingled crest of the dog's house). i'd love to try a 1000 yard shot. if someone in the OH-PA-WV-KY-IN-MI area's got the backstop and line of dirt i'll buy breakfast...i may even be able to scratch up a Pinto.
kg <drkg@bright.net>
USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 02:22:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.143.37.165)

The next event I went to was a rifle shoot for 300yds+. Targets- Coca Cola cans.... with gasoline and dynamite. Definitely cool! I moved here for a much better life/career. I'm in the Bay Area now.
Steve
Steve <strapac@mindspring.com>
USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 04:58:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.204.14.10)

Both the AICS and the Mac A-3 also have the front rail on them and can use any type of bipod which you have from Harris, Parker, or Versa-Pod.

As far as the little Cuban boy and his plight! Im sure most of you guys have seen the photo of the INS agent doing his job and getting the kid away from his crazy relatives. Just a couple of questions about that. If the house was only a 2 bedroom cracker box, why did they have about 30 people living in there? Shouldn't Miami's Human Services have seen this and said that conditions were unsafe and just take the kid away? And is this fisherman and what was he doing with that kid in the closet??

And more in relation to our plight of keeps our GUNS. ALthough I thoroughly agree with the rescuing of that kid (and I very, very rarely agree with anything that Clinton or his henchmen say or do),, I just hope that photograph will not be portent of things to come when the feds decide that our hunting and shooting pleasures have become dangerous to the state and decide to take our guns away. WIll we also be greeted by MP-5 toting federal agents, demanding our guns and stripping away the last few rights which we still possess? Just food for thought? Look hard and long at that photograph and hope it never happens on that level. (OK who wants the soap box now?)

al O
AL Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Restin' Easy in , Ohio, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 06:16:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.144.4.85)

I'll take the soap box... I'm a divorced single father of a 8 year old son... and I was his mom and dad since he was 6 months old.
What it takes to be called "Father" would take three pages (I'll save all of you, from that dissertation :)... and that ass didn't even meet requirment #1... you gotta BE THERE!!!

You don't get to be a "Daddy" by knockin' up your "Ex" on a one-nighter, and then leaving town with your new hunny.

But on the gun issue... you don't like that picture?? Well get used to it.
At Waco, they could have taken Korish (sp?) any time... he jogged all the time, and went to town by himself a couple of times a week... so they used a cast of thousands to take him out.

At Ruby Ridge, the local LE could have walked up to him in the general store and said, "Why don't you come over to the office, so we can clear this thing up"...

Hell, there's no fun there... a cast of hundreds to take him (and take his wife out)... I mean, if you're the ATF... what's the point of having all that cool "assault" stuff, if you can't get out and use it once in a while?

You don't like the pictures... well get used to them. It's acceptance of this kind of "assault", by the public (you), that makes it easier and easier the next time.

We don't use that much force against crack houses, or Aphetamine labs... but it's now OK to do it against a family's house in a custody issue??? Gimme' a break!

Why do you think the Klintonistas want gun control??? So they have the ultimate power over society... and as long as you think these acts are justified, they will happen more often, and for smaller issues.

There were 30 people living in that house??? Gimme' another break!
 

Soapbox done...

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 10:26:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.64)

Sarge
Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 11:51:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.245.243.73)

Excuse me ? We may not use the same number of people that it took at Waco or Ruby ridge, but the operation to get back Elian looked an awful lot like what we do when we execute a search warrant at a crack house or a Methamphetamine lab... I don't know what they do in your part of the country...

We tend to feel that there is no such thing as overkill if it keeps the officers safe that are executing the warrant.
 

Drew Wood <dwood@sn95.com>
Newport, AR, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 12:15:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.128.151.145)

'Lito,

Do you remember the "rules" of engagement at Ruby Ridge? The Feds could shoot any armed male without warning. Do you remember that the US Gov had to pay over 3 million bucks to Randy Weaver for the wrongful death of his wife. Waco? It is another reminder of just bad the Feds can screw something up by trying make themselves look good on camera.
Anyway, you are likely preaching to the choir here, but you said it well.
Got to get ready to go to Borden for some practice later today.

Best Regards,
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
Ky, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 12:16:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.48)

I got it in an e-mail (from the guy that got run off the site for saying "Cosine" too often... ;)
------------------------------------------------------

I propose a caption contest for the photo in which that half-trained
beauracrat slob is pointing his MP-5 at a man (Rule 1 anyone?) armed
only with a six-year boy. My three entries are:

1. "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."
2. "Jack booted thugs? What jack booted thugs?"
3. "We are doing this for the children."
------------------------------------------------------
 

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 13:22:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.137)

On the recent Federal Raid to secure a six year old kid. I do not have all the facts in this case, but will tell you that before any agency around my area doeas a High Risk Entry, it has to be determined to be High Risk. We have what I like to call a score sheet to be filled out by the investigators nefore the SWAT Team can be used. If the case does not meet the requirements no SWAT. What does that all mean, SWAT is for High Risk(you are likely to be shot at entries) not for child recovery. Here is the problem with running into a house with 30 unarmed people inside waiving a MP5. Someone panics and you fall/whatever and shoot them. Too much risk unless you have a good idea who you are after is going to resist.

Seems to me that when the negotiations didn't work you get a court order demanding that the relatives bring the kid in or be in contempt of court. If they fail to bring him in, you get a warrant for them and then arrest them. Problem here was the Fed's messed around and made butts of themselves. They took the kid as a face saving means. That is not why you send a SWAT Team. Hell we dont use SWAT Against most Felons and I would never agree to bring a MP5 in to arrest a six year old whos only crime is being from Cuba and press coverage.

Dont blame the agents that raided the place. They were just told to go in. I don't know how it is in the Fed's but a Command Level Officer in my department decides how we go armed. That is pretty much the norm anymore. The guys would take M4's everytime but Command has to concider over penetration etc.

This thing should have been decided in the courts before we introduced MP's

Undude
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 13:57:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.24)

Ken :)
 

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 14:27:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 4.21.143.4)

#2 VOTE with Politically/ummm Historically correct revisions:

"We doing YOU! then the Children........."

First I've seen an MP-5 held "Gangsta style"

GAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH worse than co-sines!
 
 

later Gators
 
 

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 15:17:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.200.31)

Tactical Stocks & Supplies has purchased from the divorce attorney the remaining LOD Inventory of stocks, Rifle Data books, mounts and ring sets. As well as ghille suits and misc tactical equipment. I have posted an abbreviated listing of the materials on the emporium if there are any questions feel free to call

Regards

John Baier
Tactical Stocks & Supplies
330 488 1393
Tactical Stocks <riflestocks@yahoo.com>
Cleveland, OH, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 15:21:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.92.137)

On second though probably reminds Elian of home(read:Cuba)..............

:-0
 
 

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
STILL TITTERING CITY, bY-gAwD, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 15:21:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.200.31)

i try not to play politics with my own opinions- i try to look the situation over, as best i can, before i give any thought to where my fellow republicans stand on it. it seems to me that a lot of conservatives are jumping in line to criticise reno and the democrat administration that put her in place for their attempts to end a horrible situation. my only criticism is that she (reno) didn't do what she did 9 days earlier. i mean, who were these people, the miami family, saying "we think the father should be involved in the decision"- wrong! it IS the father's decision. this donato imawhinybitch character deserves the thanks of a samaritan for pulling the boy from the water- he also deserves jail time for holding a child in legal custody of the U.S. justice department behind a locked door when federal agents came to retrieve him.
a comment has been made to the effect of not blaming the agents for what they carried out. would you rather criticize the agency leaders who made the decision to send their men in with adequate protection?
how different would this situation been had they gone in with Bics instead of H&Ks, pocket protectors instead of flak vests?
the fact is- a potentially dangerous situation that was draggin on for monthes was remedied in three skillfully utilized minutes. no one was hurt- none of these bleeding heart scum in miami, even those who resisted, were injured and more importantly neither were any of our offices- they live to protect us another day.
 

i recently saw the documentary "Waco: Rules of Engagement" and it only deepened the painful feelings i had concerning this situation. after viewing it i have no choice but to but janet reno in the same traitorous category as the likes of jane fonda. i've had more than my share of arguments, fights, and nights speant in the custody of LE but never experienced anything so inexcusable as what happened at Waco or Ruby Ridge, but that doesn't mean i can't feel the problem.
i was nearly spammed off this site for a few carelessly chosen terms in a post about my rage at recent LE actions (New York et al.), but i can't myself claim to know what oppression feels like- but i do know that this family hasn't either. they left castro's regime, came here, and saw justice served.

'lito: i'd like to see how the LE guys here interpret that photo.

any "half-trained beauracrat slob"s here got a caption for
that picture?

i suggest "Stop blubbering and hand over the child, freak!"
 

kg(TheDoctor)
kg <drkg@bright.net>
USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 15:33:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.118.71)

Next on the box?
Bill Reed <reedalpiniste@aol.com>
USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 15:34:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.206.196)

I'm afraid to ask... but who the Hell is Bumper Morgan... did he come to the Carlos shoot last fall?

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 15:34:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.137)

out
Bill Reed <reedalpinisre@aol.com>
USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 15:37:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.206.196)

This is not about the officers, though I think a guy with an MP5 that tells an unarmed woman "Don't move, or I'll blow your **** brains out"... needs to go back to sensivity training classes.

This isn't about them, just as Viet Nam wasn't the fault of the grunts that died in the rice paddys.

Guys... look at the source... look at Clinton... the long history of sending in too much power, for things that had easier solutions.

And the thing you all are missing, is we JUST lost another right...in yo' face, and under your noses, and you still don't see it :((

When Klinton went after the gun shows, he had nothing to go on... the ATF records documented that about 1% of crime guns came from gunshows, so he couldn't use that one... so he (and Lautenburg) came up with the phrase "The gun show LOOPHOLE!!"... and it stuck. Now people talk about the gun show loophole when there wasn't any such thing... these were simply private sales... next comes (dare I say it) "The Private sales loophole"! You got the picture of how these guys work??

OK take two steps forward... we now have the public justification of a "crash and bash" entry because "There were rumors that there MAY be armed people inside"... and that's now a valid reason for crash and bash...

OK... the next step forward... I'll spread the next rumor right now...
"I think that there are armed people in about 80% of the private homes in this country!"
So what does that mean... that the govt can hit any house in the dead of the night, with MP5's because, with 600,000,000 guns in the country... there is good reason to believe that there are "armed people" with "GUNS" in "EVERY" house.

THAT, my friends, is what this is all about!

'nuff said... I gotta' get lunch.

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 16:04:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.137)

So, for those of you who care…look for four new reviews, or one large combined review. This will be on the complete line of SS sniper scopes by Tasco - now exclusively marketed by SWFA, the fine gentlemen , inf fact, who so unceremoniously forced me out of my self chosen sabbatical by sending me these scopes! :-)

Also, for those who have been confused in the past, on first gander, the spacing between the mil-dots IS pretty darn close to the standard mil-dot pattern, NOT Twice its size as has been bandied about here by some posters. It looks to be between 3.4 to 3.6 inches at 100 yards, or one mil between dots, regardless of magnification. Details to follow in the review. The scopes are the SS10x42, SS10x42M, SS16x42 and the SS20x42.

Why am I telling you all this ahead of the game? So you can brow beat me if I get lax and sit on these for a few weeks! Now that you know about it, I'll have to follow through and get the job done soonest!

Scott

PS: Gooch, great note from God! He had it right. All our troops, no matter their training or MOS, have given up of themselves. Interservice rivaly is just for fun.

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 16:51:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.91.146.35)

Now then, I suppose I have to wade in on this measure. Lots of you have said great things, and I agree with some, but here's the dope from the CONSTITUTIONAL standpoint. The family was 100% right in what they did. One cannot take a case to the supreme court directly, it must work it's way there from city, county, state, circuit appeals, etc. They have a legally binding court date for NEXT MONTH, with a legal court order that declares that the kid stays with the relatives! This court has legal juristiction, not the feds! Until the local court decides something, it can't be appealed by either side. And even then it wouldn't be in the Fed's court for another couple of turns.
Weapons? The reporter that was in the house when the kid was taken was there several hours earlier when 3 "agents" came to talk to the family. One of the questions asked was: "do you own any weapons or have any in the house?" to which the answer was "no, you can look if you don't beleive me". And they did. Someone told them to insert hot, when it was COMPLETELY not needed, and legally indefensible. Remember, you're a citizen of whatever state you live in before you're a citizen of the FED. Also, remember one more thing. The law currently states that a Cuban of any age that asks for asylum MUST be granted asylum if he is standing on US soil. Worked that way for the 35 Cubans that hit Florida last month. The reason the feds moved in was specifically because they knew that the law says what it says, and they didn't have a case. They wanted to win, so they "adjusted" the law to be what was needed. Check your sources, the clit-tons do it ALL the time!

I sure hope it never comes to what Patron 'Lito says, but if it does, we're the last bastion of hope, the last greatest chance, to keep America from being spelled with a k, and being called a what we really are now.
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
A bananna republic in what used to be the, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 17:18:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)

Chalupas, for everybody!
Jeff <chalupas@illegalaliens.com>
Havana, Cuba Gooding Jr. - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 17:59:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.222.48.30)

Makes me wonder if Klinton struck some kind of a "deal" with castro....maybe for more cigars for Monica?

Lito....add a new caption. "Greetings from your President"
 
 
 

Jim D <jdekan@neosoft.com>
Humble , Texas, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 18:04:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.241.160.98)

Bravo... right on Dude.

Jim D...

On the "Support" of Americans... I went to www.vote.com last night.
It's not an anti Klinton site, and the opinions will swing left and right... and last night, the public was AGAINST this fiasco by 60+%...

He's got "Zip" for support on this raid.

I just hope the short memoried Americans remember this next November.

Ok... now no more... but you'z guys gotta stop wtriting such good stuff ;)

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 18:33:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.46)

John, you should post that announcement on the tactical-announce list. That list was setup for announcements, advertisements, events, etc of interest to the tactical shooting community.

Compose an email with your announcement and send it to:
tactical-announce@aspire.net

All: If you are not on the tactical-announce list, send me an email and and say 'add me'. That's the place where it's okay to advertise to the tactical community.

Ken :)

Ken <Ken@aspire.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 20:02:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 4.21.143.4)

April 13, 2000
The Honorable Eliot Spitzer
Attorney General
Office of the Attorney General
The Capitol
Albany, New York 12224

Dear General Spitzer:

"I have received your letter of March 16, 2000 inviting me to join in your effort to encourage various state and local governments to award law enforcement gun contracts only to gun manufacturers agreeing to a "Code of Conduct" which dictates various business practices, safety features, marketing strategies, etc., for both gun manufacturers and gun dealers at the wholesale and retail level. I must respectfully decline your invitation.

First let me say, if I believed the safety of my constituents were truly the issue, I would be much more considerate of your request. But we are not living in a country flooded with "unsafe" guns. It is their illegal use that endangers us-that must be addressed through vigorous criminal prosecution.

Providing for guns safety locks is one thing and, in truth, only a small part of your "Code of Conduct." However, dictating how many guns a purchasers is allowed to take home on one day, banning sales at gun shows and prohibiting a minor from even entering a gun store without a parent or guardian are parts of a political agenda, not a push for "gun safety." Coupling the safety issue with a strict regulation of business practices is merely a maneuver to advance a decidedly political agenda under the guise of "public safety."

I am a strong proponent and defender of Americans' Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. I also make every effort to be a responsible manager of my constituents' tax dollars. I ask the director of the Arkansas State Police to make purchasing and requisition decisions based on quality, service and price. I will not ask him to award a lucrative government contract in order to further a political agenda geared at controlling and ultimately destroying
the firearms industry. I want Arkansas State Troopers to protect our citizens and themselves using the best guns available, not guns from the most "politically correct" manufacturer.

In 1999, I signed into law an act prohibiting Arkansas' local governments from suing firearms manufacturers seeking compensation for injuries and deaths resulting from the illegal use of these companies' products. To hold the gun industry accountable for crime is like holding our nation's farmers liable for the healthcare costs associated with obesity. The desire of some to blame the gun manufacturers for crime rather than prosecute criminals seems to me a sadly misguided attempt at protecting our citizens. It is also a rather thinly veiled attempt to vilify and control those who engage in a business which is eminently legal and necessary, yet not particularly smiled upon by the current administration in Washington.

I thank God previous administrations understood and appreciated not only the sanctity of the Second Amendment, but its necessity as well.

Gun manufacturers make the Second Amendment a viable right rather than some theoretical proposition. I will not abuse my authority as Governor to pursue their demise or dictate their business practices through coercion.

So the answer is a definite 'no," I will not seek the capitulation of firearm manufacturers through the use of asinine lawsuits or the doling out of taxpayer-funded government contracts. I regret that you feel either of these tactics to be worthwhile endeavors."

Sincerely yours,
Mike Huckabee

Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 20:43:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.144)

Elian's father divorced his wife and has already waived custody rights and now all of the sudden he wants his son back. It sure did take him a long time to come this conclusion. If everyone has Elian's true best interest at heart how could they possibly agree to a dynamic entry. Everything else I say would be just repeating what Pablo says about Americans with guns and people declaring asylum.
Bravo on that. We must be ready to fight though.

Next, I would like a good heavy three way adjustable stock for a 700 Sendero .300 Win Mag. The cheek needs to be adjustable to a 50-56mm obj. lens scope. I'm sold on Nightforce or U.S. Optics. A detachable box mag would be nice. And I'm a short guy with short arms. My biggest problem on the M40A1 was scope adjustments. I usually had to come out of position just to reach the scope.
I would also like any recommendations for a reasonably priced scope for a Bushmaster AR-15 with a detachable carry handle. Just for play. Nothin too expensive. Shot it not too long ago. Just over 2" groups at 100 yards. Sweet rifle.

Great comments on Elian

Semper Fi
Mac
sean <macdelta1@webtv.net>
houston, tx, USA - Thursday, April 27, 2000 at 21:48:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.240.200.136)

Great post!

Also, thanks for telling me to conact Hugo at TRGT for the data book. I recieved my data book in today, that thing kicks ass!

Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , ny, USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 00:17:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.28.201.129)

I don't see anyone worrying about their prospects for living in a "free(?)" America or if they have parents or gaurdians who want them back home.

Instead, they get brought into sweat shops, plantations, and other exploitive situations where they get to live, "The American Dream".

Let's be honest here shall we. Under the same circumstances, if this kid was Haitian, or any other nationality for that matter, he would have had his sorry ass sent back to his impoverished homeland on the next plane ride out of Miami.

Yeah, the storm trooper tactics were a stupid idea. But what would you have expected? Your Gov't basically painted itself into a corner by letting this thing get out of hand in the first place.
 

Manuel Labor <I-get-paid-5-cents-a-day@ditch-digging.com>
Enjoying my stay in the USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 00:28:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.76.81)

But I can't help but wonder, since when does the INS, and specifically Border Patrol, have jurisdiction in what was at that time nothing but a custody dispute?
Mark <markj12pct@aol.com>
Ohio, USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 03:21:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.182)

This is a point that should be concidered. The raid on the Miami house by Federal Agents is nothing new. I saw a post that said "They probably didn't like it" meaning the agents view point on the mission. Ok, fine. So if and when they are asked to search house to house for privately owned weapons, will they do it even though they don't like it?
Frightening, to say the least. I know 99.9% of LE brothers out there feel strong support for the individual right to owm firearm, assault weapons too. I know how these tactics work against them. It kinda goes like this...."If you want your pention, go out and search!" This is one of the shameless ways that politicians use law enforcement for political enforcement.
It is my humble opinion that the Constitution is a Divinely inspired document. For those who are in question of the second amendment, concider this. 128 million people died as war casualties during the last century. 168-180million were victims of genocide by there own governments.
Remember history boys, Germany used gun registration in Denmark to go play "knock, knock" in the game of "hand it over or die." History is repeating itself. I seriously hope you don't believe that the curren administration has the best interests of the people in mind. This is the same administration that is selling us out. The same administration that weakened out military to the point of certain catastrophy if we get snarled in a serious war, like China.
I for one believe in my (our) Constitution, whole heartedly. Never before has freedom been so raped in this great nation. You cannot legislate Utopia. Freedom comes at a high price. I hope that when the time comes those who are on those teams, instructed to stomp on the face of humanity tells the ones giving the orders "Enough!" I for one will not sell out my own people. If comes down to it I will leave the country.
Just remind yourselves why we exist in the first place, read the Declaration of Independence to rekindle the spirit of freedom. There are people who want to outlaw religion altogether, not to mention the right to be free.

God bless (and save) America.
Semper Fidelis

Bad Karma
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 05:13:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.77.71.53)

I get a lotta e-mail... (some of it from youz guys telling me to take a hike :)... and I'm on a lotta lists for Constitutional stuff. (I have, this morning 2476 pieces of mail in the incoming box... it comes in faster than I can read it :((

I've read some stuff from some of you guys that shows clear interest in what is going on in the Government, and I thought I'd pass this on.

I got an e-mail from Matthew Gaylor's service this morning, on some the abuses of the Clinton/Reno "Dept of Justice"(?), that made my toes curl up, so I thought I'd let you guys know about the list.
He's not like Rush Limbaugh, with one man's opinion... Matt sends out writings from the best minds the country, on personal/constitutional issues... much of it, prior to being published in a book.

Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues
Send a blank message to:

freematt@coil.com

...with the words

subscribe FA

...on the subject line.

It's very good stuff.
'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 09:29:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.68)

That's a whole new topic my friend, and we shouldn't interchange the facts of one case to support the fears of another. "Alien" Gonzales has nothing to do with "black helicopters" or the New World Order coming in to take your guns and personal freedoms away.

I live in a country whose gun laws are one of the toughest in the world. I'd take your country's gun controls any day of the week compared to ours.
 

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 09:29:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.57.43)

"I live in a country whose gun laws are one of the toughest in the world. I'd take your country's gun controls any day of the week compared to ours."

How do you think you got your restrictive laws... not in one big declaration... you got them the same way that we're getting ours... by one'zies, and two'zies, and you guys let it happen.

You got a few frisky indians that throw a fit, and break the law, you get new laws to protect you from those indians "with guns".

We have a few nuts that misuse guns, and we get new laws to "Protect" us from nuts "with guns".

We're bitchin' about it, because we don't want to wind up like you guys.

It's an American tradition to bitch about excesses of our Government (while others sit back, and let their governments do what they like).

It's not about black helicopters... don't watch our TV for "the news"... read the writings of the constitutional thinkers in this country to get the gist of what's going on.

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 09:51:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.68)

Seriously though, I would strongly urge anybody who is thinking about the class to go for it

Michael
Michael Sheehan <mike1000@pacbell.net>
San Jose, CA, USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 13:27:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.192.208.6)

Mike Sheehan, thanks for the kind words, but you have to get off this Flu/Sore Foot Thing, its killing me. Your rifle is capable of better than .25 MOA Groups. That is the fastest bbl break in I have ever seen! KxP BBl's are great. Watch out when my new Match Rifle is complete. No fancy calibers of the mnth, just a plain old 308 Win, Modified 40X McMillan Stock, KxP Bbbl, Rem 700 Action, RPA Sites and Jerry's Magic Touch.

Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 14:46:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.178)

it disturbs me that some local LE is willing to adopt policies that its citizenry has so obviously rejected. the Elian thread morphed into one about LE agents being willing or not to come to your house and take your guns upon command from their leaders. i previously had faith that any tax-paying, right-bearing citizen who serves in LE would refuse any orders that infringes on the rights of his fellow citizens (-rember, when his shift is off and he goes home, he's no different that you or i), but now i'm worried.

is this happening anywhere else? anybody's local LE jumping on this s#!twagon? any ideas for constructive protest?

kg
kg <drkg@bright.net>
USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 16:06:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.118.71)

I was reading an article in Handloader about Jacketed vs Lead bullets in handguns. If you are a subcriber it is in issue #153. Anyway I have curbed using jacketed bullets in my pistols by 95%. Why? Well for one it's cheaper, and two it extends the barrel life conciderably. Personally I use a 255gr Bull-X SWC behind 6.0gr Unique in my .45ACPs. I use a 295gr Kieth SWC/GC in my .44 magnums. I find that the shoulder on the bullet does as much damage as a HP does on flesh (animal of course). I like the penetration of hard cast bullets too. Although I use jacketed exclusively in my 9mm pistols.
I'm trying to find a good HEAVY .358 cal lead bullet to use in my .358 JDJ. I can shoot a 250gr SP at arount 2250f/s. Yeah, I know it's a bit big but, everyone need at least one hand cannon right? It sure gets your attention at a pistol range. KA-BOOM!

Semper Fi

Bad Karma
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 16:34:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.77.71.62)

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 17:45:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but: I work for a federal agency, and from time to time at work I check in to the Duty Roster. ( During coffee break or at lunch of course). Well since this site has been critical of the Miami fiasco I can't seem to access the site at work. Keep getting web page unavailable. Tried all the other sniper sites, no problem. Come home and no problem. Just in the last two days, tried another agency computer, na da. Like I say maybe it's paranoia, or breathing to much hoppe's or maybe some one thinks we're becoming dangerous mind influencing anti Klintonista's.
Hmmmmmmm.... Lito I'm sure you have an opinion!

Danny
Danny Reever <dreever@supernet.com>
Arendtsville, Pa, USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 20:01:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.157.109.210)

Mouse gun Bolt, out!

SHEEP RULE!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 21:15:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.45.19)

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 23:12:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.143.24.209)

It was a MEC grabber that served me well back when I shot a lot of skeet. I recomend it wholeheartedly to anybody that wants to throw together 3-4 boxes a week rather quickly. As for shot size, I found buckshot to be relativly dificult to load, having to stop to insert the pellets by hand and geting absolutly lousy patterns for my trouble. Sadly, since lead shot was banned for duck hunting about ten years ago there dosent seem to be nearly as much heavy birdshot available to reload. Seems to be harder to find, anyway. Otherwise, I'd say load some nice stiff loads 5s, Bs or BBs. I have an old bag of T-Buck stuck back for such an application but still use factory short magnum loads ( an old lead duck load of 1 1/2 oz. of BBs) for housegun work. I like the balance of tactical penetration and lack of effective range they provide. Comperable loads are still sold for turkey hunting. Thats where I would look. YYMV, needless to say. Then there is the school of thought that says a 55gr. Ballistic Tip out of an M4 is the answer. Got that angle covered, too...

Bill R.

It should be fun to watch them get sued FOR A CHANGE? Geez, and I thought this was already the most sued president in American history. Shows what I know...oh, you mean for something *other* than attemting to diddle every female that comes into radar range. Silly me.
 

"The Sniper" (which obviously isnt quite accurate, at least not yet)

Assuming you have not been run out of here by the list administrators, might I ask just why you want to become a sniper at such a young age? I mean, this is a job that calls for one, among other things, to cooly and professionaly shoot people. I would certainly hope that this is not the aspect of the job that attracts you, as a burning desire to do same has a funny way of gettig you DQed as a canidate, or so I understand. Sixteen strikes me as a young enough age to decide not only on a military career, but on such a narrow, specific job within the military, one that is not only particularly demanding of body and mind and dangerous but a job that requires one to kill people on a regular basis. I mean, when I was that age the best the military seemed to offer at the time was the prospect of a trip to Nicaragua or El Salvador to clean up a mess that the US had an inordinatly large role in creating to begin with. Not for me, thanks. What is it that you have in mind? We keep seeing this sort of profession of interest on the part of the very young here and I just don't quite get it.
 

-Tom
 
 

Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, South Cackylackey, USA - Friday, April 28, 2000 at 23:20:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)

Did the subscribe to freematt from work and home. Did same with KABA, COA and a couple of others a while back. Thanks for the tip.

Gooch:

That letter from "Huck" was a beauty. Not to mention that yours, 'lito's and others comments are very eloquent... and accurate.

Scott:

I look forward to your reviews to come re: the SS scopes, especially since I ordered the 16 x 42 and the Nikon rangefinder from SWFA a couple of weeks ago and got 'em last week. I want to figure a way to test the accuracy of the scope's adjustments.

I'll admit to being pretty much ignorant of the details of the Elian raid, but today I saw a clip on an interview with one of the "commanders" . He stated that no weapons were pointed at anyone during the raid. While he was making this statement, a photo of the agent pointing his HK(?) at the woman holding the child was displayed on screen...hmmm.

This worries me big time. What really worries me is I hear people say stuff like " That sort of thing would never happen in this country"...hello? Or. that it wouldn't affect them any way. Wonder if the were thiking like that in Denmark, and Poland around, say 1939-40?

I think some folks still need to wake up.

Gentlemen, keep up the good posts.
 
 

Jeff A.
 

Jeff A. <d1k2l3@smyrnacable.net>
Sniper Fu, GA, USA - Saturday, April 29, 2000 at 00:18:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.216.123.92)

I had to re ip address all of my websites and machines 2 days ago. There is a possibility that your browser is trying for the old address due to your lan DNS not being updated yet.

If you want - just use the ip address of the site - that will always work -unless we're just plain off the air:

http://4.21.143.54

that should bring the site up too :)

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Saturday, April 29, 2000 at 00:35:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 4.21.143.4)

Danny
Danny Reever <dreever@supernet.com>
Arendtsville, Pa, USA - Saturday, April 29, 2000 at 01:54:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.157.108.172)

Now, as for the real reason for this: I have a Marlin Guide Gun and would like to know what the best all around loads are and what the best effective range is... if known.
I was introduced to shooting recently and am proud to say I like it. I would really like to keep that right to teach all the responsibilities to my child. I hope everyone keeps fighting here, unlike in other countries.

"Blackcatt"
Tina K <tina.keith@att.net>
Spokane, Wa, USA - Saturday, April 29, 2000 at 02:59:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.73.163.76)

kg <drkg@bright.net>
USA - Saturday, April 29, 2000 at 03:18:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.118.71)

kg <drkg@bright.net>
USA - Saturday, April 29, 2000 at 03:18:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.118.71)