April 09, 2000 - April 18, 2000

Now, he's pretty much dragged my name through the mud (in his "rebuttal" on the Emporium), in a semi-public forum, and I respectfully ask any of the lawyers amongh the D.R. disciples to contact me with suggestions, if you care to advise one of your chums. This dispute, Pablito, appears to be more serious than when I suggested that regular, modern, Hoppes #9 does little, if anything, to remove copper fouling...

Thanks for reading, and sorry for the off-topic post. (At least it wasn't ALL CAPITALS, ha ha)
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
radioactive, CA, USA - Sunday, April 09, 2000 at 02:32:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.162.49.152)

I don't know why you brought me, and my gallon jug of Hoppe's #9 green patches into this... (which you still haven't given me an address, so I can send them to you)... but I think a lawyer over this silly thing is a little over kill on your part.
This is a silly school yard argument, "He said, He said" that shouldn't be on the roster, or on Sniper Country at all.

No one can win, you can just throw money into some lawyers Porche acount... if that's what you want to do, then don't ask for a recomentation on SC... we don't know poop about suing... goto your local BAR assoc, I'm sure they will be MORE THAN GLAD to take yor money.

Pablito.

Where do I send the gallon of Hoppe's soaked cleaning patches. ;)
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, April 09, 2000 at 04:16:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.130)

Not that I can afford one, but REALLY? A .45ACP MP5A3? Where can I get one?? Ooh... my wife'll be elbowing me all night thinking I'm going lu-lu while I'm dreaming of running through cases of ammo... ;-)
 

To everyone -

Okay, I looked at the $200 8x30 Steiners that the local shop had, and I have to say that their cheapie binos were a bettter investment. I REALLY didn't Like 'em at all. SO, I started looking at all of the other ones they had in there. Some really nice 8x40 (8x42?) Pentax, at about $500, but then I found a really decent pair of Nikon 8x42 that were really nice... well, at least they were a LOT better than the Steiners, and cost about the same. I think they were called the Attache, or something like that. But I'm still open to suggestions.

My objective is to find a pair of binos that:
a) are in the 6 to 8 power range;
b) have an objective in the 40 to 42 mm range (well, maybe 30 to 50 mm, but would be happiest with the ~40mm); and
c) are under ~$200, maybe up to $225 (okay, $250, but that's really pushing it!)

My ideal would be a 6x40mm, but there ain't no such critter that I've seen...

So far the Nikons are the best glass for the money that I've personally seen. The Steiners are out. IOR makes a great pair for the money, but are higher than the Nikons. Anyone else have a pet favorite pair of binos that they would suggest that I at least hunt down and look through?

Thanks all...

-L

Leslie <lnbright@juno.com>
TN-VA, USA - Sunday, April 09, 2000 at 05:14:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.98.92.129)

Dave
David <dmoretz@pacifier.com>
Portland , OR, USA - Sunday, April 09, 2000 at 09:27:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.224.118)

Gentleman, Ladies(who so remarkable discretion in their posts), and the rest of youse all.

If you have a personal problem - Solve it off line, Use Private e-mail, Duels at 10 meters with bad mitton rackets /shuttlecocks, Humorous side shoots At The Sniper Rendevous, BUT NOT ON THE DUTY ROSTER, OR THE EMPORIUM!!!!

Please read the parenthesized caption found on the top of the pages:

(Note: Posts that are completely irrelevant, contain foul language, include insults, or are provocative without reason will be removed. This Duty Roster is moderated by more than one individual and will be monitored regularly.)

Nuff Said...................

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Sunday, April 09, 2000 at 12:45:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.48)

Well said, thanks. Unfortunately my son was on my PC yesterday, and I can't get in via FTP to fix up the Emporium mess. I've mailed Ken for the password (thought I had it stored, but that one doesn't work?) so should be able to take the appropriate actions tonight my time.

Please keep Sniper Country the civil place we intend it to be.

Marius
Marius Ferreira <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
RSA - Sunday, April 09, 2000 at 13:23:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 196.15.184.93)

Already taken care of - and Ip addresses noted.

If youn'z want, we can setup a mailing list called
something like: PissingContest@SniperCountry.com

So if you get pissed off at someone - you both join that
list - beat the stuffings out of one another -
then come back to the roster/emporium when
you're done.

Ken :0
 

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Sunday, April 09, 2000 at 13:43:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

And to Pete and others that think it was just a urinating contest of sorts, Ciao to all of that, okay?

I don't mind being in the mud, after all, the Mudville 'Militia' match, aka the Sacramento Valley Long Range Tactical Match, held the first Sunday of each month, is famous for mud during the winter.
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Radioactive, CA, USA - Sunday, April 09, 2000 at 14:49:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.162.48.13)

I have an AR-10 with a Shepherd scope and I am looking to improve it (Stewart Wilson Uppers come to mind www.stewartwilson.com)until I can achieve my goal with it 10 inch pie plate at 1000 yards.If any of you are AR-10 buffs I'd love to hear your load recipes and other stuff.
And to all of you bolt gun guys I'd love to here your views on scopes,barrel,twists and even Ghille suit construction(I'm working on
an antithermal Ghillie suit that uses Peltier Electro-Chemical cooling
tubes runing throughout with a thermostat the allows manual/ambient air/and surface contact temperature settings,I have a patent application out and hope to market it to the Military when I get more developement capital)

Good To Have Found You All
SOPMODM4

SOPMODM4 <sopmodm4@freewwwb.com>
USA - Sunday, April 09, 2000 at 17:55:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.25.216.1)

(Thanks Paul...it's a hoot!)
David Kiser <kiser403@mailcity.com>
NC, USA - Sunday, April 09, 2000 at 21:37:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.203.13.70)

Who has had any experience on the Colt 4 point telescopic stock? For those who has, just wondering what your thoughts are on it. If you like it, why. If not, why. What would your choice be in hindsite now? Do you find the 4 point stock comfortable as to the standard stock. Any opinion and feed back would be appreciated.

Thanks all in advance!!!

Darren...
Semper Fidelis
Darren <darren@darrendong.com>
San Francisco, CA, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 00:12:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.7.176.144)

A .45acp MP5 does really exist, in 92' we recieved all sorts of lit from HK while with 3rd Recon along with our new batch of MP5N's. They also were going to do a 10mm version, or just get a hold of the Colt SMG, made in 9, .40, and .45. Not neccisarilly available to lowly cevillian folks like us, but hey, Uncle sam loves to buy Military & Fed Law enforcement all the latest toys

Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , ny, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 03:49:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.28.201.110)

OUT HERE ! ! !
Will <rogue308@mindspring.com>
USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 03:56:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.129.178)

I have the colt original on my Ar, great to shorten up a brush gun, I have the full length upper & full stock for the target stuff, but have a 16" flat top M4 upper and 12" commando upper along with the telescoping stock for the trips to the field. The stock is pretty durable and is as comfortable as a hard plastic stock can get. They look cool, but if length is not an issue, stick with the full length stock.

Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , ny, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 04:06:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.28.201.110)

I had the chance to zip a few rounds off with the fully suppressed MP10's ( mp5 in 10mm ) It is a sweeeet gun. makes me want to run out and apply for my class 3 FFL

Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , ny, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 04:09:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.28.201.110)

Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , ny, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 04:13:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.28.201.110)

Got a couple of inputs already - thanks guys! One important thing I forgot to mention, I am getting it for free. So my decision is not about either getting it or not but to put it on or not.

Darren...
Semper Fi
Darren <darren@darrendong.com>
San Francisco, CA, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 04:31:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.7.176.173)

Brett <Tterb eef@aol.com>
Hon, HI, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 05:35:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.194.184)

I had a chance to be in charge of a G-3 shoot with the Reserves last Saturday.
We shot with the new SIUS ASCOR Computer Monitor.
Great setup, there is a mircophone sensor behind the target that relays the POI to the main Computer and then to a shooters station with a monitor and printer. Shooter can see all of his shots, make corrections and at the end of the relay take the printout back to have the results written down in the Rangebook.
Makes the whole deal a lot smoother than having to radio the butts for sighters and score and improoves the shooting a great deal faster.

Had a real motivated troop there and went through all 1200 rounds of 7.62. Those of you that ever shot with the German Bundeswehr know about the paperpushing involved.

t
t <7.62@lasercon.de>
sitting in the office watching the, cherry tree blossom in, germany - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 06:15:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.159.89.236)

On the M4 stock - the four pos'n is nice if you need 1) changes for body armour, or heavier clothing 2) a handier 'car gun'. But sucks when you need to use it on someone to buttstroke. And the LCF is high too.
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 06:23:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.140.87)

Dave: I'll keep an eye open for the B&L, see if I can find some to peruse.

Brett: That's an interesting site!

Kush: Lucky you! All I ever got to play with were Mk-19s... lots of fun, but not when you had to drag 'em overland through the brush, etc... Well, and I also got to play w/ M2s, M249s, M203s, M79s, M240s, M60E3s, and the ever-popular M16A2s. But never a H&K. Drat.
 
 

To everyone who emailed me about binos, again, I appreciate your input. I think all the advice really did help me clarify a few issues that help me make a more educated choice.

L8R,
-L

Leslie <lnbright@juno.com>
VA-TN, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 06:33:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.98.93.53)

I've shot about 500 rounds of American Eagle 50 grain hollow point and had about 10 primers get jarred out of the primer pockets on them. I've fired about 60 rounds of the Federal Premium with the Nosler 55grn Balistic Tips and lost about 5 primers from those and had a couple come loose from some Gold Medal I had fired.

It was driving me nuts in my custom gun so I tryed shooting the stuff in my two Bushmasters and got the same results. Personally I think some of this federal ammunintion that is making it's way to the shelves is coming with some really loose primer pockets. I've had Federal 308 Gold Medal do the exact same thing in my AR10 so we aren't talking about a specific caliber here. I'm really starting to shy away from Federal brass for any of my gas guns after having that little escapade with spitting primers. Nothing takes the fun out of shooting quicker than picking a primer out from under your trigger or better yet out of your barrel extension after it's been crushed in there by the bolt.

I highly doubt that your gun is to blame in this situation. After my experience I'd say it's just a batch of ammo that was meant more for a bolt gun than a gas gun. I'd like to see what the same ammo does in an HK or a Mini 14 to see if the problem persists. I don't know if the AR15 series is slightly more prone to knocking out primers or if it's more certainly the ammo.
 

Bolt, on the 223 semi and 308 semi issue, I say Armalite is a darned nice company to go with for factory new AR15s and AR10s. Lifetime warranty if you can either luck out and find the model you want or stand the huge back order they seem to always have. After reading about the SR25 and some of the issues they have been having I figure the AR10 is just as reliable as the SR25 now. There are tons of companies out there doing quality work on them too. Ofcourse Les Baer and Wilsons Combat have hopped on that bandwagon now but I think for the money there are better shops offering custom work.
HK rifles eat brass like candy but I never got to have one because Ca. banned everything but the SR9 and HK33 which were super hard to find before this last ban.
 

Lastly I was reading through either SWAT or Guns for Law Enforcement magazine the other day when I found the old left thread/versus right twist debate again. It was regarding the HK pistol barrels that are threaded for using a sound suppressor. It seems the HK USP tactical uses a left twist thread to counteract any torque applied by the right hand twist of the barrel. And here the whole time I thought it was just because they didn't want folks confusing the MK23 suppressor with a USP suppressor, the MK23 is right thread and USP left thread for those who didn't know. Anyone think HK is just making up a complex answer to over shadow a simple one ;)
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Bakersfield, Ca, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 08:58:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.165.2.207)

Rigger's Tape, a.k.a. Rigging Tape, a.k.a. Chafe Tape, is an extreemly water resistant, stretchable tape used on sailboats to cover items on the rigging like turnbuckles, cotter pins, stanchions, etc. that might damage the sails or lines. It is usually a nice snow camo white. See West Marine at www.westmarine.com

Good shooting,

Dee
 

Dee <deeturner@jps.net>
Roseville, CA, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 12:42:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.119.52.229)

Your email bounces back. Email me if you wish re: IR. thanx
paul mickey <paul_f_mickey@ameren.com>
Sprfld, IL, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 18:22:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.51.215.205)

Just what sport do you mean? The primary focus of this site is on tactical shooting in the law enforcement and military contexts, which is generaly not regarded as being a sport. However, there is naturaly a lot of technological overlap between tactical and target shooting. If target shooting is what you are interested in then I suggest you explore the NRA home page at:
 

http://www.nra.org.uk/
 

which features information all sorts of smallbore, centerfire and air weapon competitions. You might also want to look at the Pracical Rifle competitions website:
 

http://members.tripod.co.uk/prnl/index.htm
 

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 22:13:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)

Wills, I for one and against the flow liked what you put on the Emporium. Made me think before jumping at an offer. I wont see you at Sac next month because I will be in Las Vegas with my girlfriend. It's her birthday and she wins this one.

Pablito, please dont send me a gallon of green Hoppes soaked patches that stuff looks like Jello but tastes terrible. Thanks for the indirect info about the Storm Sniper meet this year. Sorry but I have used up my vacation time this year and wont be able to make it. Next year I am planning on it, the SHOT Show and the SOF Convention.

To anyone that is thinking about it the Storm Mountain Shoot is fantastic. I made the trip from Calif. last year and wish I could every year. People are great and the place is better. If you are reading this Rod I have only one question. When the heck did you become a Doctor? If you tell me its in playing nice with the other children I am going to have a Stroke. LOL

Gooch email me with your address. I lost it and need to send you something.

Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 23:31:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.46)

I am trying to decide on a barrel diameter for my .338 Lapua Magnum, I do not need a super light 7lbs gun, I could probably tolerate a weight of about 12lbs - 13lbs. I am going to go with a barrel length between 27" and 28" (I will also have a muzzel brake so that will add a couple more inches of length) and im pretty sure on a straight cylinder barrel. What would any of you suggest for a barrel diameter do you think 1.00" is over kill. let me know your thoughts and experiance.

Thanks
Siberian Tiger Hunter <BadAssMstg@hotmail.com>
Detroit, Michigan, USA - Monday, April 10, 2000 at 23:58:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.255.89.128)

I'm looking to get into long range shooting sniper style. For the money I can invest, I'm trying to choose between the Remington700vs and the Winchester M70. Can anyone help me decide on the two.

Thank You,
the Rookie
TONY <TONYLONGSHOT@AOL.COM>
USA - Tuesday, April 11, 2000 at 00:20:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.207)

The Eighteenth Annual Law Enforcement Counter Sniper Seminar will be held at the Hanford Patrol Training Academy (Tri-Cities, Wa) on May 20th, 2000. The course of fire will consist of the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission's 60 round precision rifle course. You shoot out to 300yds in various positions and there will be awards for overall winner, top 10, best 3shot group, and cold bore. The overall winner gets a fluted, 30 cal polygonal rifled barrel installed by TAC-ORD (I have no idea who they are) from Meridian, ID.

The flier says LE identification will be checked at the Hanford gate, but I've been told civilians are allowed to participate (my apologies if not). The person to ask is:

Sgt. William Tanner
Richland Police Dept.
(509)942-7770

MG
MG <mg6680@msn.com>
USA - Tuesday, April 11, 2000 at 01:20:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.29.132.186)

The list is alive - we've had one announcement go out from Milcun Marksmanship Complex - looked like a pretty neat course.

All are invited to join the list - where vendors, and members can post announcements, events, classes, etc - Mike Miller can promote his neat slings there as well.

If youn'z want - just email me directly - and Ill add your email address to the list - saves you alittle time subscribing. The list server will send you a welcome message...

thanks,

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Tuesday, April 11, 2000 at 02:24:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Here is question for the AR15 guys I decided to piece togehter a AR15. I bought a complet lower and An upper reciver from Olyimpic. I have been shopping around for ther other parts i.e. Barrel, bolt carrier assembly etc. I was told to stay away from Colt parts becuse they did not mesh well with other AR companines' parts. Is this true?
Owen Foster <Sigma532@yahoo.com>
SomeWhereIN, Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 11, 2000 at 04:18:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.19.0.155)

There are some Colt parts in some serise of Colt ARs that are proprietary, such as fire control parts (differing pin dameters and corresponding holes in hammer, trigger and disconnect) and on many guns the uppers and lowers use a differing location for the front takedown pin holes. There are a few other instances as well, but most Colt parts made in the last few years are of "standard" configuration and can be freely interchanged. Usualy the ventors you purchase them from can tell you what is compatible with what. At the stage you are at there are relativly few cances left for a major incompatibility to pop up.
 

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, USA - Tuesday, April 11, 2000 at 05:07:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

Torsten,
I haven't been able to locate Franconia do they have a website? (am I spelling it right?!)

Many Thanks
Matt

(strikes me that there are currently 2 x UK Matts on the site; I'm the one that bores you all with my dissertations on drift -more anyone?:))
Matt <MT@mtwilks.fsnet.co.uk>
UK - Tuesday, April 11, 2000 at 17:25:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 195.92.67.46)

Kevin, the cheapest 308 Federal Ammo I have found is Hopelite at about 325.00 per 500. Have you tried any BlackHills? I just shot a two cases and the stuff is very good. The 300 Win comes with Norma brass. Mikey Likes It!
 

Now if I can find a inexpensive source for 338 Lapua Ammo. HAH!

Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, April 11, 2000 at 17:36:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.189)

Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , ny, USA - Tuesday, April 11, 2000 at 20:17:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.28.201.98)

Also, I have a recent brochure from Sierra that shows a 6.5 160 MK, but nobody around here knows anything about it. Anybody seen/shot these? Seems like it would take a really fast twist, but the BC ought to be outrageous.

Pat T

Pat Tidwell <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Tuesday, April 11, 2000 at 21:19:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)

Speaking of target knobs, Any of you out there ever get a good lead on a good set of replacement knobs for the MK4 M3? Gooch, I remember a while back you mentioned that Andy Webber was going to possibly crank some out?

Thanks

Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , ny, USA - Tuesday, April 11, 2000 at 22:05:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.28.201.164)

Also, another example is 44.0 gr of VV N160 with the 140 class bullet. I have not chronographed this. I would guestimate 2600 to 2650 depending on conditions.

A 6.5/284 will give more velocity. I beleive 2900 to as much as 3000 fps with 140 gr bullets from a 26" barrel is possible. Pat Murphy has rifles in both .260 and 6.5/284. He has done way more chrono-studies than moi.

Hope this helps some,

Jeff A.
 

Jeff A. <d1k2l3@smyrnacable.net>
Smyrna, GA, USA - Tuesday, April 11, 2000 at 22:35:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 139.76.64.4)

dou downie <islandzoo@aol.com>
USA - Tuesday, April 11, 2000 at 23:44:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.37)

What company makes this scope? Is it UNERTL? If so where do I find out where UNERTL is? I know these scopes are made special for the Military, but who makes them to send to Quantico and what is the address of this company?
Is UNERTL a name made under another company like Leupold or something?
PLEASE CAN SOMEONE CLARIFY this for me, I want to find the manufacturer of this scope that makes them for Quantico.
Thanks!
Mike <Wintertime@mediaone.net>
USA - Wednesday, April 12, 2000 at 01:16:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.131.62.99)

They don't have a web site, and don't advertize... they are so far back ordered, that they aren't trying to get more business.
The scope that you refer to... is, by contract, NOT for sale to anyone but the Marine Corps... (though some have have slipped out to the FBI).

Pablito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, April 12, 2000 at 01:27:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.125)

Any of you left-coaster's know?
Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, April 12, 2000 at 04:10:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.143)

The Romanian "SVD" is not realy an SVD at all, but rather a modification of the RPK Squad Autommatic Weapon into a 7.62x54R sniper rifle. I have no direct data on how well it performs, but can say that many of the design features specificaly encorporated by Dragunov into the SVD to maximise accuracy are not to be found in the Romanian gun. It may shoot, but if so then somebody knows something about tuning AKs that I dont.

-Tom
which is not saying much, mind you...

Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Columbia, SC, USA - Wednesday, April 12, 2000 at 04:34:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

Try www.riflebarrels.com. That is Dan Lilja's site and has several technical articles on various shooting and barrel topics. One in particular is choosing a proper barrel for a tactical rifle. Good shooting...MG
MG <mg6680@msn.com>
USA - Wednesday, April 12, 2000 at 05:48:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.29.132.68)

I am considering the purchase of a I.O.R. Tactical Scope, 6x42mmm, 1" steel tube, glassed etched reticle (USD$379) and would like to "hear" your expert comments on this choice of optics for targets at 700m maximum distance.

Thank you very much.

Luso
Luso <nop26522@mail.telepac.pt>
Lusitania - Wednesday, April 12, 2000 at 10:03:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 194.65.14.69)

Grab your wallet. Last week I had the opportunity to use a military laser range finder of Austrian Manufacture, belonging to a friend who lives in the Arizona Territory. Our targets were small rocks at unknown distances. Using this range finder, he and I shot sub-MOA groups all day, with first round hits on everything we fired at. The ranges varied from three hundred to five hundred-fifty meters.
Wind was pulsing most of the day, 15-20 MPH. The photo conditions were very bright, harsh, with limited contrast. Skies were clear, light was angular: overhead, indirect and direct, depending on the chosen target. I was behind a 6mm on a Rem PSS, #6 taper Douglas Premium Barrel; my friend was using a DPMS .223, accurized, heavy barrel. Optics were Leupold Tactical VARI-X III (MK-4?) 3.5-10 x 50/VARI-X II, respectively.
This friend trains police and military personnel worldwide. Much of this involves long range sniping and grants him access to certain paraphernalia which is not necessarily accessible to the average shooter. That said, I do not know whether or not this range finder is available to Joe Camel. What I do know is that it is VERY accurate (2000 Meters, +). It is also VERY expensive ($7000—yes I said THOUSAND!).
I believe the company which makes this range finder is called MHI, though I am not certain. It is about the size of a good pair of porro prism binoculars (approx. two pounds, with batteries). It has a broad viewer field which displays large red numbers. The laser signature is NOT tamed-That is; it WILL damage the human eye if you are on the receiving end. This may have something to do with its accuracy and range capability. I don't know much about this, though I understand that other commercial range finders have to be "safety" engineered to prevent them from damaging the eyes of unwitting victims. This finder has a single eyepiece, but can be used with either the left of right eye. It is encased in hard rubber, olive drab, and has two sealed buttons on the top. One of the buttons is for ranging, the other, I believe, is for memory. A false reading shows in the viewfinder as "999". We got very few of these, however. Incidentally, in an afteraction session, mention was made of an updated version which is purportedly smaller than a pack of cigarettes. Swarovski may be behind this. Their name came up several times, albeit with the accompaniment of much Guinness.
Write to me directly if you want more info. I'll see what I can find.

Keith
Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durangatang, USA - Wednesday, April 12, 2000 at 16:15:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.45.211.92)

One more post. In the politically incorrect days of yore, to be "rigger taped" was to be chosen among one's peers for a rather respectful, if not somewhat uncomfortable, rite of passage. As it happened, following the completion of RIP (Recon Indoctrination Program), seasoned Recon Marines were often found to employ "rigger taping" as the preferred means through which recent graduates were ushered into the platoons. The practice generally resulted in the loss of much body hair, as its application was administered only after said inductees were summarily stripped of all garments, save dog tags. Not unlike the practice of pinning Blood Wings, however, with the coming of the social architects, "Rigger Taping" long ago passed in the night. Alas, our once great nation has lost yet another time honored tradition in hopes of offending no one.
Kosher artillery, anyone?
Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durangatang, USA - Wednesday, April 12, 2000 at 16:52:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.48)

I got my 700PSS back. The gunsmith told me he inletted the stock which was interesting because he told me twice that he shaved the lug and bedded the stock. Maybe he got my rifle confused with someone else's. Anyway, the bottom line is he sandpapered the stock and did a nice job on the trigger - crisp, no creep or overtravel and just under 3lbs. His shop is a Remington authorized repair center so I was suprised he would even touch the trigger.
breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Wednesday, April 12, 2000 at 19:10:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.3.204.222)

"Okay I can't find the post where one of yous guys mentions the name of this range but what is the name of the range near Fresno, Ca? I shot some NRA Highpower there in the early 90's. I think it went back to El Grande (1,000 yards) but am not sure."
X54 <fivefour@garlic.com>
Coyote, CA, USA - Wednesday, April 12, 2000 at 23:22:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.211.178.25)

A final note...i have seen the IDF rebuilds that springfield is selling, and am not excited about what's left of the barrels. Those things have been around since lebanon, and have seen a great deal of use.

Any guidance you can provide is appreciated, particularly information regarding best commercially available rifles. If any one has a rifle to sell i would be interested.

Many thanks

yonatan

please contact me directly at jgleason@gunder.com
 
 

yonatan <jgleason@gunder.com>
USA - Wednesday, April 12, 2000 at 23:26:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.251.30.4)

Were you a SGT type with 1st Force Recon? your name sounds familla'

Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , ny, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 02:00:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.28.201.44)

I have been wondering about the different conditions when carrying a pistol as a primary or secondary weapon for either the LE or military operators. I know of four conditions, but I am requesting verification on them.

Condition 1: locked, cocked with no safety
Condition 2: locked, cocked with safety on
Condition 3: no magazine in magazine weld, no round in the chamber and pistol slide not locked backed
Condition 4: no magazine in magazine weld, no round in the chamber and pistol slide locked backed

Any LE or others who can assist in my quest for knowledge please advise. Thanks in advance again!!!

Darren...
Semper Fi
Darren <darren@darrendong.com>
San Francisco, CA, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 02:03:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.7.177.211)

For most LE, if armed with a Glock, on duty you have a round in the chamber ready to fire, any other DA type gun, round in chamber, hammer down, whether safety on or off, department rules and regs will dictate
For Military, that all depends on the mission. most MP's carry with round in chamber, safety on hammmer down. Those times in CQB type situations, we carried Colt Gov't models, round in chamber, hammer back, safety on, but that can depend on the back up weapon that is carried.

These are situations that I have observed or been in. As you talk to other LE and military folks you will find a plethora of different SOP's dealing with the carrying and handling of loaded weapons.

For my self, I carry the Colt MK4 Gov't model, a hot one in the chamber with hammer back & safety on for just such an emergency.

Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , ny, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 03:29:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.28.201.120)

Havent read the duty rooster in aobut 1/2 a year.
email replies appreciated (if possible)

-Robb
robb@kc.rr.com
Robb <robb@kc.rr.com>
USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 05:56:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.94.172.82)

I was taught the following (keep in mind this is from a department that issued H&K P7M8s for over a decade)

Condition Zero: Cocked and Locked, no safety (I understand that VERY few units allow this type of carry, and maybe now nobody does)
Condition One: Cocked and Locked, safety engaged
COndition Two: Hammer down, loaded chamber (DA guns may or may not have a safety engaged, departmental regs guide this one, as does carry choice, this is the most common with DA revolvers and pistols alike)
Condition THree: Empty chamber (this is how shotguns and SWAT weapons are carried, I doubt you will ever find LE personnel who want to count of having a free hand to work a slide before a handgun can be brought into play)....

Just my .02

dan-o

dan-0 <dan.overbey@compaq.net>
Morgantown, WV, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 06:49:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.10.89.174)

Here is where I am going with this. I learned of Storm Mountain Training Center on the DR. I did not go to any special place at SC to read of the places. I listened to what was being said. I talked with many guys and no one said anything bad about the SMTC courses. When the Hatchock Match was announced I had an excuse to go out there and see what the big thing was. So I took a week long class to tune up for the match. I had been teaching for awhile and I just dont take any classes, but all the word on the DR was great so I went. Well let me tell you it was a great week of instruction I will hold onto as money well spent. The DR did this.

In the past year I have seen many guys told not to advertise classes products etc on here. Well if we cant talk about new products and classes are we going to be limited to what makes patches the greenist? Or how do I clean my PSS? I dont know about you guys but I dont impress myself with answering either of two.

Dont listen to me look around and see who has left. What do we do to get them back? You tell me, but if you say screw them, you are just screwing yourself.

Now for questions asked:

Carry a 1911 with a round in the chamber, hammer back, safety on, in a holster.

Trigger did publish his book and it is very good. I do not agree with everything in the book but he did an excellent job and I dont know too many folks who would not learn from reading it. I am going to write a review for Tactical Shooter and see if they will publish the article.

Maadi 50's have a poor reputation. Spend some more and buy a Barrett, McBros, Robar or Windrunner.
 

MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 07:20:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.84)

dan-O,

Mossberg now manufactures, under licence, a Mossberg 590 DA 1 wich is double action only and should bring those shotgun SOP´s up to condition 2 were they should be.

Mike,

well spoken, I miss them too.
 

torsten <7.62@llasercon.de>
germany - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 08:39:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 62.157.36.163)

I don't think the underlying problem is with posting notices of new products, classes, or whatever. Merely discussing them in this forum has never been a problem on this forum. The Emporium and the new Tactical Announce List are great for separate advertising activities.

I've been on the Roster since around 1997. I've seen a lot of good people come and go. Anyone here remember when guys like Ron N. and Bill Wylde use to post here on a regular basis ? Do you ever see them around here anymore ? Perhaps each person has their own reason for not wishing to return.

In my opinion the Roster has suffered greatly from a lack of a regular moderator. I mean, how many times must we all hear the same questions asked over, and over, and over again. These questions are certainly valid, but there needs to be more emphasis on shifting these people to the achives and Hot Tips/Cold Shots section.

As much as some people would hate to admit it, at least when Russell Taylor and Scott Powers were around here they did a great job of keeping things on topic, and not letting this Roster from becoming just another message board.

When the two of them were here on a regular basis you didn't see all the personal attacks and that type of bull shit when someone brought up a controversial topic like trigger locks, or when new visitors like Paskz are referred to as "Commies" because their opinions and life experiences are vastly different from our own.

Scott has been gone for so long now I can't remember the last time he even posted here. How long ago was that? Possibly 3-4 months ago?

Anyway, I think the time has come where this board needs the attention of a moderator to help guide the Roster. Otherwise it will just fall apart from neglect.

That's my take on things...
 

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, NS, Canada - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 10:22:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.76.85)

By the way, what is the title of Trigger 50's book? Always looking for good lit to add to the collection

Thanks

Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 12:53:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 136.183.157.118)

I'll try make it short and sweet ( well shorter than Scott would...)
 

The Duty Roster is what you put into it. PERIOD!
 

Everyone tires of the same old questions, but there is never a dumb question from either the newbie, or crusty old salt, or even an Un-Dude. ;-)

People have many other things to do in life, and this often takes precendence over chronically re-iterating posts.

We live in the "I want It NOW!" age with the internet, and websites.

Yep it is very nice and many simple queries can be addressed from differing angles or viewpoints. Whether you agree with them or not.

Examples:

Gooch and measuring Mil-Dot spacings. Its there, but you have to look a little. and yes Guiness consumption is up in By-Gawd for a LEGITIMATE reason.

Questions on a product, and its been on the In Review page for six months or so...........

This is part of the reason for the new masthead on the Duty Roster and hyperlinks to the other pages at this website. To ease the burden on re-hashing the same old thang.

REMEMBER:

The Duty Roster is what you put into it. PERIOD!

cHAO!
 

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
UP TO MY @#% IN PLASTER DUST, bY-gAwD, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 14:12:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.26)

I posted a note yesterday (000412) regarding an Austrian Laser Rangefinder, then received quite a few requests for more information about it. The one I uset was the
Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durangatang, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 14:44:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.97)

I'm not too familiar with the caliber you are using but I will help enouch powder to reach your desired muzzle velocity. Once you have that, then you can choose from a variety of lengths. as best as I can. For the length, find the ballistics info for the round you are using and find out how much barrel is needed to burn
As far as taper, I have a 1" straight taper on my REM700, a heavybarrel, but in a field enviromnent or shooting off the bag, the rifle is stable and settles quickly after each shot

My reccomendation to you, go through the Hot tips and cold shots, a wealth of info there, or contact a barrel manufacturer or someone who re-barrels actions and they may have the technical info you may need.

Also go to the links section, check out Lilja, and Shilen's sites. Shilen has great info on lengths, twist rates and contours

Hope that info helps

Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 14:47:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 136.183.157.100)

Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
buffalo, NY, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 14:49:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 136.183.157.100)

As I was saying, the rangefinder I used last week is known as the Teleranger model and was supplied by an Austrian firm known as HCI. The Teleranger model has since been replaced and my source informs me the replacement model is inferior to the original, in part due to the fact that the Teleranger is not eyesafe. Apparently, whatever is required to make a laser eyesafe results in diminished performance.
Another Austrian firm, Riegl, is manufacturing a laser rangefinder which looks virtually identical to the Teleranger, with the caveat that it is considered "Class I eyesafe". This model is the LaserTape FG-21, and claims accuracy out to 2000 meters. It may well be this is the one which replaced the HCI Teleranger. When I receive word on the unit cost and availability of the LaserTape I will make another post. I would expect it to be quite expensive.
For those interested, Riegl can be contacted at 

Out—

Keith
Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durangatang, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 15:02:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.97)

While I think that the Cold Bore/Hot Shots is a great idea, without the direct question and answering that goes on here we would just be "sitting around and staring at each other".

I too get frustrated by the continual answering of the same question but I guess its a bit like being an instructor. I've seen instructors get frustrated (myself included) by having to start at ground zero every time a new class picks up. You think, "Damn, I just spent 8 weeks drilling this shit and now I have to start over?! Where were these guys last class?" This site is like having a new class pick up every day.

And to our Canadian friend. The comment about there being no personal attacks when RT was on the crew. Give me a break! The worse incidents of mudslinging/flaming errupted from his Rock Island desk top! I was on the down range side of some of them. These were not light flames but direct, personal, "lets bring your family into it", assaults. I made a double post one time when I first started on here and he threatend to "cut my dick off" if I did it again.

Don't worry, be happy. Life is grand. All is well in cyber-land.

God gave us a sense of humor and patience. Use them.

Out
Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 15:23:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.184)

I just got a note from Riegl. The LaserTape rangefinder is the same rangefinder (updated version) as the Teleranger. HCI is no longer in business. The LaserTape costs $4850, and is avialable through Riegl, USA. Contact is "Jim Van Rens" jvanrens@rieglusa.com
 
 

Jim Van Rens
Riegl USA
Midwest Sales Office
9235 W. Capitol
Milwaukee, WI 53222
Email: jvanrens@rieglusa.com
P-414.438.9244
F-414.438.9253

Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durangatang, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 15:54:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.97)

All: with regard to sales pitches, announcements, classes, specials
or just plain items of interest to the tactical community -
let me encourage you'nz to join the tactical announcement list

that is the place where it's okay to advertise. We've had several
announcements go out. I have a list of about 200 or so
individuals that I will ask via email if they want to be added to
this list.
 

At the foot of each list message - I will put a small blurb
from one of the tactical vendors. I will rotate that footer
message on a periodic basis - weekly?... don't know that one yet.
If you're interested in having a blurb at the footer of each
outgoing message - for say a week or so - get in touch with me. Yes - this means you too - Jerry, MikeM, Rod, Kent, etc.

How do you get added to the list? Simple: send an email to:
ken@aspire.net
and say add me - the list server will send you a welcome message.
 

After you're added to the list - to send your announcement - simply compose your annnouncement in an Email message - then send it to tactical-announce@aspire.net - your message is then transmitted to all the list members.

Ken Hunter <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 16:40:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 4.3.240.234)

The Gooch Man: I'm not trying to glorify Taylor in any kind of way. I realise it got real ugly around here just before he was asked to leave. However, look through the achives. At one point in time he made a lot of effort to help this site and helped make it what it is today.

I'm certainly not going to condone anyone's misconduct or bad behaviour. I was only trying to make the point that a moderator of some sort is a good idea on this forum.

I can appreciate Rod's and Rick's work situation. The mere fact that they take the time out to post here at all is commendable. However, there are a lot of other individuals who've left here besides them.

I'm personally glad to see that you're on here a little more often now that you have some more time on your hands.

The more "new blood" around here the better. We were all "new" here on this forum at one point or another.
 
 

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 18:16:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.222.48.30)

I see there is a lot of concern over the Duty Roster. In a sense it is a good thing, but of course also bad.

It is bad because it is unfortunately true. We have lost good people for various reasons. Some no longer felt welcome after being blasted off here, both by visitors and previous staff. (Refers Gooch's post.) Others felt they didn't fit in. Others got tired from seeing the same stuff over and over again. Others were just passing through in any case. Others had other reason, most of which we will never know why.

I have learnt a lot from this site. I might be webmaster, but I am because I am the only one that really knows how to do the "computer things" - and then only just too. I am not webmaster because I have a vast technical knowledge - far from it. I must be one of the least experienced people on this site. I was originally included probably just because my mouth was so big on Dave Reed's old site, and also because it was a novel idea to have somebody from out of the States to be part of the site - giving an international flavour to it.

Before I became sole webmaster for Sniper Country about a year and a half ago, we were actually four that maintained the site. The Duty Roster and Emporium were basically my sole responsibilities as I created and maintained the scripts. The rest of the site was the other guys' - all of them together. One left to pursue other directions, one of which was to get married. (Those of you who remember Jay - his mother died recently.) The other two left for other reasons, but we will not go into that.

At that stage I was busy with the Hot Tips/Cold Shots section. It was an ambitious project from the start, but at that stage I had ample time, and if the status quo stayed as it was I would have been up to date with the latest Duty Roster archives updated in there. Unfortunately things have not worked out that way, and the first thing that had to take backstage was that section. The result is that it has been a long time since it has been updated, and I've actually considered taking it off since I can't give it the attention it deserves.

The other option is to continue with it, but in a much less detailed fashion. If I do this there are still certain things I will pick always pick up, like places to shoot etc., but otherwise I will more only pick up specific very useful threads, like the one a couple of months ago about carrying gear out in the field. Unfortunately, even for that my time is severely limited.

Scott has also been putting the site a bit backstage, partly due to family matters, partly work, and partly also for getting tired of some of the stuff. Tired for getting slammed when suggesting different things, or when taking a stance about the contents of the Roster. But he is still around with the site, and a very integral part of it. Fortunately Pete came aboard during the course of last year, and he is a continuous contributor to the Duty Roster, as you all very well know.

I do not get to read the site as often as I like. Mostly I just quickly browse through, catching posts here and there, especially when I'm archiving. Work and other commitments are really tying up my time with no end in sight very soon, but hopefully it will get better somewhere again.

Getting back to the content. We cannot provide that. That we do in the articles, reviews and such we post. The content for the Duty Roster has to come from you, the visitor. And that cannot always be only high-quality, sniping and tactical shooting issues. Just think of it. If we were to take all the so-called noise out, what would be left to talk about? How much can one really say new about these things on a daily basis?

When you start learning, this or anything else, the curve is steep, as there is lots to learn. There is a lot of questions you have, and a lot of new experiences you want to share and talk about. But face it, when you have been down the path a hundred times, your learning curve has really flattened out. It is not flat, not at all. If you can honestly say, after having gone out for a course of something, that you learned *nothing* new - check your pulse, you may be dead. Everybody still has something to learn. Ask Gooch, ask MikeM. Highly experienced guys, but I'm sure they'll tell you they still learn. Might not be so much, might not be so dramatic any more, maybe it is only one small thing in a course - but learning they still are.

Now if we were to try and remove all this oft-repeated stuff that is on the steep curve - where is that going to bring us? Please, I ask those of you that take your experience elsewhere, even just off-list - think again.

Of course it is only natural, as you most probably go off with people that either know more than you, or those that are on the same level as you. But remember the new ones. Remember those that still have the questions, that still want the answers. Not all of us are teachers, and not all of us has the patience that Gooch, MikeM and others have, but please let us give it a try.

Try and remember why this site is here in the first place. We are here to try and disseminate information. Information on our controversial interest. Information that can help in un-demonising it in the eyes of the general public. Information that can show people out there that we are not a bunch of gun-toting lunatics, time-bombs just waiting to go off. And this we cannot do by blasting newbies and others off the site merely because we differ from them. Obvious exceptions are real lunatics.

But I do feel there are subjects that need not be on the site. The humour in the beauty of sheep has long ago worn off for me. All the political discussions, though understandable, are also subjects that I do not think belong here. But I am not going to lay in the knife to cut it out. You people have to cut it out - by not doing it in the first place.

Long ago somebody taught me something. "If you have to ask the question: 'Is it going to be wrong if I do this?' you already know the answer. Yes, it is wrong - don't do it." Thus, if you have to start your post with something like "I know this doesn't really belong here but… " then why are you putting it there in any case? Police yourselves, I am not going to do it.

And about schools and such being discussed here - I've never had a problem with that. I've never censored a post that mentioned a school, training and such. If people have specific events they are welcome to mail me to put it in the announcements - that is what it is there for. To speak in general about any school, methods used, training given etc. - by all means, do so. That way more people can get training.

But, as said in the past, direct "I am selling …" belongs in the Emporium.

So, longest post in a very, very long time. But I hope it means something, and hope it conveys some of my thoughts. Some of it has been overdue for some time, some is actually necessary to repeat from time to time, just to keep us all focussed - both staff and you people out there for who this Roster really is.

Enough for now - I have a paper to set.

Marius
Marius Ferreira <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
Pretoria, Gauteng, South Africa - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 19:09:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 196.15.184.119)

OUT HERE
Will <rogue308@mindspring.com>
Deep, South, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 19:20:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.135.72)

Mike, thanks for bringing this up. It shows you care about the site.

Gooch, thanks for your ongoing support, through good times and when the sh*t was flying.

And you others who have commented, and you who keep on visiting and posting despite what sometimes go on here - thanks a lot.

Without you all this site will not be what it is.

Marius
Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
RSA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 19:42:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 196.15.184.119)

Next comes the obvious question! If not trypod mounted how many of us can hold a range finder steady enough to get a reading back beyond about 450 to 500 yrds? Mine is a weaver and it will give me pretty good readings to 500 yrds. and under right conditions (braced) will give me a reading of 750 yrds. to the freeway down the road. As it stands in my openion they arent much but they beat the heck out of nothing. Pay your money and take your chances!

Remember "OL VERN" said, "CHEER UP. ANY DAY THATS ABOVE GROUND IS A TERRIFIC DAY".

"OLD GUY" OUT
Vernon Hamner <VernLHamn@worldnet.att.net>
Houston, TX, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 20:20:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.73.225.117)

Thanks!
Semper Fi
Bill
Bill Boyanton <boyanton@clipper.net>
Eugene, Oregon, USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 20:41:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.116.34.117)

I've never heard of high or low frequency range finders... both the Bushnell 400, and the AN/GVS-5 rangefinders I have, have a wavelength of 1.06 microns... the Bushnell is good for 250 yds on a sunny day, against a matte black target @45 degrees (the standard "Worst case target")... the AN/GVS-5 is good for 6.5 miles against the same target, same conditions, and is hazardous to the eyes at 3/4's of a mile (or so the Military says!)... the frequency, or wavelength, is determined by the crystal used to generate the pulse... same crystal... much more power!

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, April 13, 2000 at 21:42:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.188.89.159)

Bill
Semper Fi

http://www.barracuda.se/
Bill <boyanton@clipper.net>
Eugene, Oregon, USA - Friday, April 14, 2000 at 00:24:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.116.34.117)

As far as this "old tiimer goes" I just dont have the time to meander around the internet that much except for the porn sites and the Duty Roster occasionally.

Just keep the comments civil becasue all the good which a certain unnamed individual brought to this this sie was swept away by his treatment of other individuals. DOnt let it happen here again. Its too good of a site.

Kent you mean to tell me he only threatened to cut your balls off - well, Im singing for the Vienna Boys Choir now. Always good to here from you and your special brand of humor. Kent arent hou instructing at SMTC any longer? If not, people are really missing something. That was the primary reason which brought me there because of YOU instructed the LOng Range Rifle courses.

Tony and Ginger: Have you go tthe pix yet??

al o.
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Raisin'a Ruckus in Glorious , Ohio, USA - Friday, April 14, 2000 at 00:59:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.144.4.101)

Lazar <CikaLaza@aol.com>
USA - Friday, April 14, 2000 at 02:49:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.195.189)

Out
Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, April 14, 2000 at 03:21:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.174)

Thanks
DT
Darryl <tarryl.todd@eddept.wa.edu.au>
- Friday, April 14, 2000 at 05:18:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 203.14.52.71)

Scott
Scott <FNCfan@aol.com>
Albany, Oregon, USA - Friday, April 14, 2000 at 05:43:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.178)

A commanding police Sgt. buddy of mine practices on the local range along with the SWAT guys when they go out. They had one of the IR illuminators along with them and they decided to play a joke on some shmuck that I guess they all like to pick on. While the guy is facing down range one of them has the IR illuminator trained on him from about 20 feet away for a good amount of time. After a bit of this the next day he notices he is a bit more sunburned than the rest of the guys that were on the range that day. I'm guessing that IR devices put out a bit of UV light along with the IR light. However powerful this thing is it's a good thing the guy didn't turn around I'm guessing.

Anyone else heard of any dirty practical jokes like this?
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Baketown , Ca., USA - Friday, April 14, 2000 at 05:55:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.165.0.187)

Great to find a site hosting people who know what they are talking about. I am hoping for some advice regarding Tasco Custom Shop scopes. Does anyone have any experience of the CU 8-40 x 56 (mil dot). I am considering purchasing one for practical / precision rifle shooting (non tactical).

Cheers,

Dom
Dom <LethbridgeDP@cf.ac.uk>
USA - Friday, April 14, 2000 at 08:58:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 131.251.26.72)

al o.
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Clarified in, Ohio, USA - Friday, April 14, 2000 at 09:52:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.144.4.57)

al o.
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Clarified in, Ohio, USA - Friday, April 14, 2000 at 09:52:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.144.4.57)

al o.
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Clarified in, Ohio, USA - Friday, April 14, 2000 at 09:56:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.144.4.57)