Sniper Country Duty Roster

Sniper Country Duty Roster

March 20, 1999 to March 23, 1999

Anyone has experience with the F.I.R.E. rail system for AR15 flat tops? Also the flip up sights than match the rail setup.
Bolt
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 00:36:19 (ZULU)

The recent Aimpoint ads in the gun rags show a ruger mini-14 with a forward scope mount that looks like it replaces the handguard. I have inquired with customer service at Aimpoint/Springfield and a couple of the magazines I have seen the add in, but nobody has a clue who makes it. I have also search extensively on the web, but without any luck. It would really be helpful if anyone could steer me in the right direction.
Eric <Crydogaxel@aol.com>
Riverside, Ca, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 00:41:05 (ZULU)

Thanks to all for the info about cleaning gear. I'll be heading home soon, and breaking in my new rifle is on the top of my "to do" list. I've got a .308 PSS, a one piece DD Ross scope mount and rings, and a Tasco SS10x42M. Mounting the base is not a problem, making sure the scope is level in the rings is. What are some ways to combat this? Also, where's the cheapest price for some Fed 308 Match?

If anybody remembers my asking for help with the designated marksman program in my unit, here's an update. I submitted it in a monthly report that ends up at our commander's desk. So far it has been looked upon favorably, a couple people with some pull have expressed enthusiasm. Now it's a waiting game. I got alot of inputs out of this site, so thanks once again.
Darren <darren.malott@mildenhall.af.mil>
USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 00:52:31 (ZULU)

JUST A NOTE GOING BACK TO 03-14, FROM JEFF A- I HAVE A LOD RIFLE, I AM NOT AN EXPERT BUT ENJOY SHOOTING, IT SHOOTS LIKE A CHARM. MR. MARTIN SOLD ME HIS 68TH PIECE, SOMEONE ELSE HAD ORDERED IT BUT DIDN'T COME THROUGH WITH THE PAYMENT AND I HAPPENED TO CALL AT THE RIGHT TIME. TALKING WITH BILLY MARTIN WAS AN EYE OPENING EXPERIENCE. I WISH I HAD TAKEN A TAPE RECORDER WITH ME. I AM A CIVILIAN TYPE WHO GOT INTO THIS FIELD THROUGH MY DAD. HE WAS A SNIPER/SHARPSHOOTER WITH THE LOCAL SWAT TEAM FOR THIRTEEN YEARS. I ONLY LEARNED ABOUT THIS PAGE THROUGH MR. MARTIN. IF YOU CAN GET HOLD OF HIM AND HE HAS TIME, AN LOD RIFLE IS WELL WORTH THE MONEY. I PUT A MARK 4 M1 10X ON IT. WITH AN OLD PARKER-HALE I WAS USING ON MY STYER PII, THE BEST I HAVE COME UP WITH IS A LITTLE OVER 1/2" AT 100 YARDS. LIKE I SAID, I'M NOT A PRO, BUT I AM GOING TO WORK TO GET AS CLOSE AS I CAN. THIS PAGE HAS GIVEN ME A FEW THINGS THAT I CAN USE.
THANKS TO THE SC STAFF FOR YOUR WORK AND TO ANYONE THAT HAS PUT IN THIER KNOW THAT HAS BEEN BENIFITIAL TO ME.
IF ANY ONE WANTS TO KNOW SPECS ON THE LOD THAT SOME OF THE MAGAZINE ARTICLES DON'T INCLUDE, JUST ASK.

JFW <JACKWILSON@ANGLEFIRE.COM>
FT. WORTH, TX, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 01:14:37 (ZULU)

God, you guys get me a goin' when the barrel voodoo gets a stirrin', there just isn't enough time to explain.

ok just to clear something up, I realize I tripped up somewheres in a post, harmonics doesn't start when you pull the trigger, that has to do with YOU pulling the gun, human error. But harmonics does not start with the chamber and end with the muzzle. It starts with the priming of the projectile then back to the rear of the action then back to the barrel. Which is why you need your torque set at 65 inch/lbs. which is why the recoil lug must be snug with the stock. which is why the barrel must be free floated. Every thing must be stiffened to ensure a stable flight. Why does accurizing an action, which I have frequently been called on to do, create better accuracy? You lap the bolt head lugs and the bolt face, big deal, right? Well you lap the lugs until they are flush with the receiver, and lap the bolt face to ensure a flat, perfectly flush fit with the ass end of the cartridge, which means stiffer action. hope this creates further discussion, I am lovin' it. Barrelmakers dream.

JR
rapid city, sd, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 01:51:33 (ZULU)

God, you guys get me a goin' when the barrel voodoo gets a stirrin', there just isn't enough time to explain.

JR
rapid city, sd, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 01:53:58 (ZULU)

Okay, someone has to end this stiffness fiasco. I am currently finishing up my masters in structural engineering and I think I can conclusivly answer any and all questions regarding stiffness. First, the material stiffness does not change when you cut the end of the barrel off, steel is steel no matter what the shape is. The stiffness of the element is related to the length squared, this means that if you reduce the length of the barrel from 26" to 20" the resulting increase in stiffness is about 40%.

As far as fluting goes, if you take a barrel and add flutes to it you decrease the stiffness. If you remove any material from a cross section it reduces the stiffness. If you take two barrels with the same weight, the fluted one will be larger in diameter and therefore will have a larger stiffness. Another way of stating this is that for a given weight the fluted barrel will have a greater stiffness.

Surface area is not related in any way to stiffness, surface area only affects cooling.

As far as harmonics are concerned, the stiffness is related to the frequency of a system. The greater the stiffness the higher the frequency.

If anyone would like to see the exact calculations I can provide them but it is a pain and I would appreciate everyone just taking my word as far as general trends are concerned.
The Shooter <shooter@unix.tamu.edu>
College Station, TX, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 02:21:12 (ZULU)

Were you a sniper? What years and where and with who?
j. w. tuepker <jptuepke@gte.net>
Mt. Orab, OH, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 02:57:12 (ZULU)

Well Shooter; Thanks for straightening me out! Please explain how much stiffer it will be if I blue it with Viagra? No mathematics neccessary. I wouldn't want to waste your valuable time. Just give the new group size down to the thousandth. Pass me pasty note JR!
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 03:27:35 (ZULU)

J.W.
I have never been a sniper and due to the effects of a sever car accident never will be able to serve alongside the elite members of the U.S. arned forces.

I am a shooter, however. I do not claim to posess the ability of a large majority of the highly trained and experienced shooters that regularly read and post on the Roster.

I am not making any claims on how stiffness affects accuracy. Many people here have spent many hours experimenting and talking too others about how this topic relates to accuracy, they are much more qualified than I to discuss that specific subject. I am just trying to give a synopsis of basic engineering mechanics.

If anyone has any questions feel free to email me.
The Shooter <shooter@tamu.edu>
College Station, TX, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 06:32:11 (ZULU)

Guys, Shooter is right. Stiffer barrels vibrate at a higher frequency, and so do lighter ones. Any second semester physics student will have worked out the equations. Fluted barrels may shoot better, but not because they have a lower resonant frequency, we just need to come up with some other explanation.
Grasshopper <wd6cmu@earthlink.net>
Richmond, CA, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 07:13:15 (ZULU)

Shooter, I am one of the guys that has been doing this sniper thing for 15 years, and you just made the most sense of anyone I have heard talk about fluting, bbl length and how it all relates to stiffness. I will steal it for use in the next class I teach. LOL that is how most of use got the info we pass on, someone invented it years ago so to speak. You will find alot of nonsnipers on here and they have helped us all. The best shooters I know are all High Power Competitors and a great deal of themare civillans so you just keep posting!

Bruce R. I have another thought for a new product, now if I could just get one of the idiots I have contracted to finish the slings they have started I can get going on the last thing. This will not be a problem as I am buying all my own machines and will be making them myself in a week or two. Bruce I think I need to pick your brain again for the new product.

Mike the Un Fixer
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 08:00:08 (ZULU)

New Product/Project.
I was just wondering how much trouble it would be for Butler Creek to fix the problem of the Leupold M3LR lacking a sun-shade?
It seems as if they COULD come up with a plastic tube that would fit the scope and still attach the scope cap to the end of it.
Granted, this wouldn't be the strongest sun-shade, but it sure would be a step above a home-brew job.
Not to mention that it would be a better step in the right direction than the "screen" that they offer.
I don't know. I was just looking at the scope caps on my M3LR and got the thinking, " If only it could be 4 inches longer, it just might work."

Is any of this making since?

I've been tossing this idea around for a while now and would like to either take it a few steps more or have someone burn it down, or I'd like to hear of a better solution.

Just a thought.
It's late & I'm sick. Time for bed.
Nite-Nite all.

D. West <westforce@juno.com>
Can't sleep, in IL., USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 10:41:17 (ZULU)

does any one know what is the difference between M24 SWS and M40A2? are both just accurized Remington 700 action sniper rifle? which is a better rifle?

thanks
ide <ide2@earthlink.net>
USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 11:05:00 (ZULU)

Questions:

Anyone familiar with or have an opinion about the FIRE rail system for AR's?

Anyone familiar with or have an opinion about the Becker Patrol pack made by Eagle?

Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 11:59:12 (ZULU)

Shooter; I reread that whole barrel discussion and I can't see where anyone seemed to have the idea that shortening the barrel would lower the frequency. There is quite a bit of suggestion that it would lower the amplitude of the vibrations. Please tell me where you found that suggestion.
OF course a barrel is not stiffer by adding flutes to it. Actually you don't add them you subtract them. But it is stiffer than a barrel of the same weight. I hope I didn't suggest that somewhere. The idea is a lighter stiffer barrel. The Frequency, while adding to the time predictability might be complicating the equation but the amplitude of the vibration is the most important and like just about all of us said "That is reduced by a shorter barrel"
I don't doubt your ability as a mechanical engineer or your use of it as applied to rifles. But I don't want my thoughts skewed to mean something they didn't is the reason for this post. If I said anything to that effect it was a misprint and I can't find it.
Forgive me for suggesting that you drop that line about "Take my word for it!" It will haunt you through your engineering career. If your argument is good folks will take your word for it.
That is not a character assination it's just a suggestion from an old man whose learned the hard way.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 13:53:38 (ZULU)

BillM- I caught your BOSS post on the reread. The repeatability of the boss is quite good. In other words you can return and log each load for the best setting without any problem. It does seem to tune the barrel in my experience. I rejected the BOSS for my own use because it was so loud. And because it seemed to inject another variable into an already hazardous enviorment. I don't defend my decision because it isn't all that sound. I did order the BOSS without the holes and that helped the sound problem and you know to my surprise the settings were still the same as the one with the holes. That amazed me. It was something that needed to be removed for cleaning and it lengthened the barrel to some extent. Other reasons that aren't too sound and have little logic but all in all I s##T canned it. JR posted that it is a "weight". I'm not sure just how to interpret that but I think he and I agree. Methinks the Lad had too much Irish whiskey to interpret him correctly so I may be wrong!
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 17:16:05 (ZULU)

D. West:

I emailed Leopold directly, asking about /suggesting that a modified version of the Vari-X III LR M1/M3 to accept a sunshade would be a desirable thing...

The reply was that a threaded objective lock ring is in the works. The ommision of the threads was to permit military night-vision devices to be properly attached. No specific dates, but "perhaps later this year."

So, there's hope yet...
Rock <lnbright@juno.com>
TN, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 18:09:23 (ZULU)

Shooter,
I have to agree entirely with your easy to understand explanations; especially fluting. So many people believe that just adding flutes to an existing barrel makes it less flexible (stiffer).

On another list an engineer/architect did have one point that I had to grudgingly agree to. We were talking about barrels being cantilevered beams. He said that in "long spans" that if a solid beam were used its own weight would cause it to bend and would lessen its load bearing capacity. Therefore a much lighter I-beam could support more weight (i.e. stiffer). I don't know if our barrels qualify as "long spans" though. They do overhang many times their own diameter.

What is your opinion on this thought? Math is out of my category.

Barrel vibration modes:

1. Barrels droop; and must surely straighten up when charged with 50,000 psi. And perhaps go farther than just straight.
2. When the bullet pushes against the lands the barrel must undergo torsional strain.
3. The barrel swells a little as the bullet travels up the bore.
4. The barrel also swells from the gas pressure, both in diameter and length.
5. As when jerking on a fishing rod, the far end descends first before rising.
6. Our non symmetrical rifle actions also contribute to barrel vibrations, most likely in a diagonal direction.
I'm sure there are other modes too.

Have you seen the book "Rifle Accuracy Facts" by Harold Vaughn. A very technical book concerning the vibrational mechanics of rifle actions, barrels, etc. A must have item for techies. You will not be disappointed.
Ron N.

Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 19:40:54 (ZULU)

From what I understand shooters are still needed for the Carlos Hathcock Memorial match. I would like to urge every one of you reading these words to please consider supporting this match be it financially or via donations of prizes. We have had as few as 2000 people visiting this site each day. We also have had more than 15,000 visit this site in a single day. Our largest number of hits came on the day Carlos passed away -- A testament to how positively he has affected us all. I am sure there are at least 50 more individuals among you capable of attending this match as a competitor. We come from a broad spectrum of backgrounds and financial abilities. I am sure of the several 1000 people reading these words, 50 of you have the financial ability and the basic marksmanship skill to attend. I challenge each of you today. Come to the match. Show your support for a great American and his legacy.

I will be there. I hope to meet many of you there! I also hope to BEAT you squarely in this competition! There is my challenge. We have all grown with this site and we have all enjoyed the camaraderie it has brought. Now lets get down to a little good old fashioned hard charging’ competition! You think you can take me? GREAT! Shell out the entry fee and lets go at it folks! Win or lose, you will have done a good thing!

If you think you are HOT enough, contact SMTC at 304-446-5526. Just because Carlos has passed there is no reason we can not still champion his cause.

Scott Powers <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 19:43:40 (ZULU)

Just recieved all the Carlos II info from STMC and I am considering bringing my tactical 30/378 wby to the match. Any ideas on how to make 30/378 blanks?
Tony Y
Iselin, NJ, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 19:52:36 (ZULU)

Torsten: It was quite interesting reading about the blueberry jam and night vision. But you left out some very important info. Here is the rest of the story.
It is true that British bomber pilots loaded up on blueberry jam. But it is also a fact that not all of the bombing damage done to England was done by Luftwaffe, and V1 and V2 rockets. Many British pilots were such poor navigators that they dropped bombs on their own country by mistake. Of course, it is possible that a few shiploads of blueberry jam were sunk by U-boats, causing shortages during the Happy Times. :-)

Shooter:
I am proud to say that I am not an engineer. I have had my belly full of those guys at work. A ton of booklearning and not one ounce of common sense. However, as a machinist I think that you might be missing a very important point. A big cause of wandering groups in rifles is caused by heat. Anything that can be done to keep a barrel cool is a benefit. Fluting increases surface area and thus helps keep a barrel cool. A cool fluted barrel will wander less that a hot solid barrel. Especially so if the solid barrel has internal stresses in it from straightening. So in a way, a fluted barrel, (if made right) is indeed stiffer than a a full diameter barrel. The same goes for a short versus a long barrel. If you apply x amount of heat to the chamber end of a barrel and one side cools faster that the other side due to the wind or places that the air can't circulate (such as the underside of the barrel where it is close to the stock) you get Y amount of bending of the barrel. The shorter the barrel, the less amount of deflection. That is why short barrels are more accurate than long barrels all else being equal. No disrespect intended.
Why do they shot-peen piston rods anyway?
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 20:36:24 (ZULU)

Tony,
I knew an old timer that used to load his own shot-shells for his .45 long Colt. He used a sharpened .45 case to cut wads from a piece of cardboard. He used one between the powder and the shot and then one to cover the powder. I don't remember what type of crimp, if any, he used to hold the last wad in place. Wonder why something like that wouldn't work for blanks. If you want something fancier, you might want to check out "Joe Swanson's Motion Picture Blanks" at
http://www.ctaz/~joemar/
You can call them @ (520) 757-5851 or send them an e-mail at
joemar@ctaz.com.
Good luck
Doc <docs@fidnet.com>
The Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 21:01:54 (ZULU)

What a dummy!!! Should have read: one wad between the powder and shot and one wad to cover the shot.
Doc <docs@fidnet.com>
The Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 21:06:19 (ZULU)

Speaking of Blanks. Does anyone know of a source for .308 blanks? I've never needed them before but do now for the Hathcock Memorial Competition. Just thought I wouldn't wait until October. Thanks for any help anyone could give.
John <Jmarek5555@aol.com>
Reston, VA, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 22:29:49 (ZULU)

WOW the Carlos II match; High angle of fire off a 6 story rappeling tower. You just got to love it. Have'nt been up one of those in years. Wonder if will get to climb up those little wirey latters they use to throw out of helecopters? Lets see if we tie milk cartons on the trees on the mountain behind the country house in PA, we can shoot off the picnic table out to about 700 yards at about 35 degrees up. Sounds like a plan. Can't wait.
Tony Y
Iselin, NJ, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 23:14:52 (ZULU)

I would be very interest in anyone opinions, experience and sources of information on the US Optics scopes. I have been to there website (www.usoptics.com) and read there material on optics (Optics 101) and the information provided is very good. What I am seeking in "independent" information as their products are not cheap. Are the specs (resolution, ricticle placement, lens coating, etc.) they provide on their scopes helpful or is it overkill? I thinks a visit to their site is worthwhile if not just for their discussion on optics and what to look for in buying a scope.

How do they compare to the Valdada products?

Thanks,

Steve
Steve <stepmont@hotmail.com>
Roswell, NM, USA - Saturday, March 20, 1999 at 23:22:00 (ZULU)

Okay everyone, dig back into your memory banks and see if this rings a bell.

Tony Y.'s post got me to thinkin' about something I ran across on the Web some time ago. Does anyone remember hearing about something that was called the 'Bradford Blast' or something similar? From what I remember from the Web site I found, this was a long distance accuracy competition/fun shoot somewhere in Idaho, I believe. All shots were from a bench. Distances began at about 300 y/m for relative beginners going to 1000+yd/mtrs. Targets were - now get this - soda pop cans loaded with dynamite!! Needless to say, when you got a hit, everyone knew it. Weapons went up to .50 BMG and, last I heard, someone had actually brought in a 20MM shoulder fired "rifle". At the extreme far end of the course, just in front of the hills ringing the area, they would tie a few of the cans to strings and hang them from tree branches. I saw mention of one gentleman who cut the string on his can. When he was treated with the 'lucky shot' comments, he turned around and did it again!!?? That's way out of my class. (To be honest, I do think it was more than a little lucky.)

In any case, it was just a fairly vague memory that just popped up. Any thoughts, comments, or whatever might be interesting.

Keep 'em in the X ring.

George, jsut one of the 'Bees'

George L. Derry <george@ebmud.com>
Oakland, CA, USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 01:10:59 (ZULU)

OK,

In order to confuse the barrel harmonics thing a little, see what ya think of this: If the energy that imparts the barrel movement is concentrically applied, wouldn't that mean the vibration would move down the barrel in a concentric fashion also? In other words, instead of the barrel "whipping" along its length like a sine wave, woouldn't the barrel just expand along its length with the moving energy, kind of like "bulging" in a moving ring around the barrel as the energy moves towards the muzzle?
Joe
USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 04:45:17 (ZULU)

Curiosity got the better of me! I got a savage 110 tactical to compare with the rem pss. What a dog. It would not shoot a single load well. Then I adjusted the trigger as in the SC info, and bedded the stock. New weapon. Holds it's own with the PSS, and seems to be less load sensitive compared to the PSS. It will not shoot Federal 308M, like 1.5moa, but everything else is fine, like .5-.8 moa.
I still prefer my PSS, but my limited experience with the Savage leads me to believe that the 110 tactical will make an excellent entry level tool. The stock really responds to normal bedding techniques, and the trigger ended up about as good as the Remington product. It is inexpensive, it is not a status symbol, but it would allow those financially challenged individuals to spend money on the more critical glass and practice ammunition.
Just call me surprised in Wa.

Torsten, got some good dope on the 174 grain bullets, e-mail me a flame or something so that I get your address again, my machine dumped that portion of memory
longline <longline@worldfront.com>
wa, USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 06:38:06 (ZULU)

BOLT
I'VE GOT A LARGE BECKER FROM EAGLE. IT'S NOW FAIRLY WORN IN A FEELS GREAT. IT HOLDS MORE THAN I LIKE TO CARRY, I BOUGHT FOR ALL-ROUND USE. BETWEEN THE WAIST STRAP, STERNUM STRAP AND IT BEING CAMEL BACK COMPATIBLE I COULDN'T ASK FOR MORE. I'VE USED SEVERAL DIFFERENT PACKS, LARGE ALICE, SWEDISH AND A SOUTH AFRICAN, AND THE BECKER BY FAR IS THE MOST COMFORTABLE. A FEW SPECS IF YOU DON'T ALRADY HAVE THEM-
ABOUT 6 LBS.
GOR-TEX WITH TWO LARGE AND ONE SMALL COMPARTMENTS
DRAG/CARRY HANDLE
SIX LARGE OUTSIDE POCKETS (WATER RESISTANT), ALL WITH DRAW-STRING AND QUICK RELEASE BUCKLES
MAP POUCH AS ON THE LC-2
PLENTY OF EXTRA ATTACHMENT POINTS AND STRAPS
PLUS THE ABOVE MENTIONED
DIDN'T MEAN TO TAKE UP SO MUCH SPACE- HOPE IT HELPED

QUESTION- DOES ANYBODY USE A VEST, SUCH AS TYPE EAGLE SELLS AS THEIR SNIPER VEST, IT LOOKS VERY LIKE IT COULD BE USEFUL, BUT AS FAR AS FUNCTIONAL.

THANKS

JFW <JACKWILSON@ANGELFIRE.COM>
USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 06:41:43 (ZULU)

Steve: US Optics scopes. I own 2 and am having a third made as we speak. The workmanship and glass are excellent as compared to my Zeiss, Swarovski and Schmeidt & Bender Hunting scopes. All are excellent. They are bigger and heavy compared to others so I would stay with the 46mm objectives and 30 mm tubes. I like their MIL DOT with 6 ft ranging brackets you can cross check yourself on range. I have a MK4 M1 so as far as the 1/4 moa windage and elevation knobs go I tend to prefer the US Optics for veiwing the settings and ease of adjustment. I find Leuoplds to be a little stiff. As far as US Optics goes the only minus I ran into is with their rings. There is an external piece that slips into the groove of the rail to keep ring from sliding, I have had one break just from recoil so I had the ring drilled and tapped into the base. This seems to solve the problem. Leoupold MK4 rings may be a better choice. As far as high end scopes go I would also look into Schmidt & Benders 3x12 tactical its probably a good investment.
Tony Y
Iselin, NJ, USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 12:53:58 (ZULU)

Good morning.
This duty roster is an awesome place. I'm glad i found it.
I havent read much here about the 30-06 round in here. I have found a new respect for the 308 but I am curious about the 30-06 since i just bought a Remington 7400 carbine (18.5" barrel). I'm just wondering if i made a huge mistake. I will be hunting mostly with this rifle but would like to shoot targets and see just how i do at longer ranges than what i hunt. Here are my questions and any info would be greatly appreciated.
1. accuracy from 18.5 inch barrel. will this short barrel allow me to shoot good groups at 300 400 and 500 yards?. The barrel shortening thread has indicated I may not be in shape here.
2. What would you consider the effective range of the rifle if my groups are good at long ranges. Could i expect to drop a deer at 500 yards if i can hit it?
3. What scope would you recomend for my hunting and target practice. I dont plan on targets shots past 500 yards and most of my hunting shots are less than 150yards. I dont hunt beanfields. As of right now i have a set of see thru mounts (weaver) so my short shots will be with the open sights.
4. Is there any aftermarket larger capacity magizines available for this rifle and also for the remington 700 with the detachable box magazine (700bdl?) as this will most likely be my next purchase.
5. Are there any long range shooting ranges around nashville tenn.. The only thing i have found so far is 100 yard and i dont like knowing where im hittin when i zero other rifles at 200 or s50 by using the ballistic drops for sighting in.

I see im gonna have to invest in another rifle for long range shooting. This doesnt bother me to much since i have a wife who is pretty lenient with the pocket book. She didnt even scream when i bought the 7400.

Thanks for any info. You can post to the roster or email directly. Thanks for a great place.

Jeff Argo
Jet100@bellsouth.net
Jeff Argo <Jet100@bellsouth.net>
Nashville, tn, USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 14:42:51 (ZULU)

Does anybody know of a source of Eagle "Becker Packs" that have then in stock... everyone I've talked to, says 8-10 weeks!
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 15:19:18 (ZULU)

Ballistic programs: Is there someone out there that has worked extensively with several and can steer me towards the best, in terms of ease of use and actual results matching the program's results? I have used Ballistix, but is is a little klunky in use, and does some strange things that always have me wondering. My limited testing shows it to be in the ballpark, though.

Shooting ranges: Does anyone know of a range in southern Michigan/northern Indiana where I can shoot at ranges greater than 400 yards? Preferably out to 800, 1,000....my local club has 200 max, and my place behind the house is only good for 400 before the roll of the land puts me too low to shoot prone-- and then there's the corn to contend with come spring! Also anxious to locate someplace within reasonable driving distance that holds tac rifle matches. As I am unable to check SC daily, any help that could be emailed directly would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Ned
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
3R, Michigan, USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 16:24:51 (ZULU)

Jeff; I guess I failed you somehow in past few days. Reread some of the posts above, Not mine but you will see that short barrels do not cause you to shoot bad groups at long range and quite the contrary most of the time but you do loose POWER. However the 7400 system will probably not shoot that good at that (500yd) range for you. That is a very powerful short range carbine and quite adequate for hunting deer especially is hilly or brushy country. You would probably get about 1' groups at 500 yards if it is typical or maybe slightly larger with factory ammunition. It is quite capable of killing a deer a 500 yards but I would not shoot that far mainly because you can stalk closer than that and your chances of hitting a vital zone are much better if you get closer. I passed up a 400 yard shot last year at a good buck with a rifle that shoots 2" groups because he was not positioned properly for a clean kill. I bagged him that afternoon at 150 with one shot. This is not a hunting forum so I'll stop with this. Your rifle is quite capable at 200 and stretching it would go 300. A good bolt gun will extend to 400 yards your ability to put a shot into game or whatever in a vital area. The action of a 7400 does not lock up as good and is not stiff enough for long range shooting as a rule.
You will also get a better trigger and scope mounting that will assist your long range shooting. Nothing wrong with shooting the 7400 to see what it will do. I would put a 3.5X10 VarXII 40MM Leupold on it if you want to play with longer ranges. Go ahead and get Mil Dot version if you want to have something that will serve you later at longers ranges. If you don't get the target turrents you can put the
Stoney point aftermarket adjusters on it and do the same thing and still have a trimmer design in the case that you don't want the bulk of target turrents later. When you get your bolt gun buy the 26" barrel and then you can always cut it off if you want something that handles better if barrel length is an issue.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhar.com>
USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 17:06:59 (ZULU)

I've been trying to track down information on Badger mounts and rings and I found it on this site.

Now I need to get a set. Are there any Badger dealers or do I order them directly from the factory ?

thanks
Andrew Bielech <mysig@fast.net>
Broomall, PA, USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 17:56:10 (ZULU)

Spotting Scopes; I got an off line about my use of a rifle scope as a spotting scope asking me why I would even need it since I had a rifle scope on my rifle in the first place.
2 reasons come to mind. You have a spare without having to carry a spare and a spotting scope too. Not to mention the rifle scope is less bulkier and it's easier to carry. Second is that when you are shooting (and I thought someone would mention this) and reading the wind if you have already shot the heat waves off the barrel are giving you a different pattern if your low on the ground or hidden from wind. Than what you see at the target. This is obscured some by the lack of close focus on the rifle scope but it still messes with the waves at the target. This can be minimized by canting the rifle 90degrees or turning it upside down (difficult to do) and then reading the heat waves and Mirage. Another is that it shows a lower profile than point a rifle at what your observing. Let me throw another tip at you. Say you are observing and don't want to be seen.
You can employ something like a "Snake skin" on your spotting scope and let the thing extend 2 or 3" ahead of the scope objective piece so that there is only a 1/2" or so hole. In good lighting that is all you need and the scope is not apt to reflect or be seen at all.
Oh yes that works on the rifle scope too of course! Most of the time you don't need that big objective out there and no need to flash it at the enemy. gday!

B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 17:59:20 (ZULU)

What is over all opinion of putting a bi-pod on a M1A? I have one and would like to do so but am tossed up whether to use a Harris that I already have and mount it to the stock or chase down a quality original type bi-pod that mounts up in front of the stock? The rifle won't really see any abusive thrashing field work. Drop me an e-mail if you have an idea or opinion....
Todd <duckman@eznet.net>
Andover, NY, USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 17:59:39 (ZULU)

Vests: I use one that BlackHawk makes but is not in the catalog. It has pouches on the front that swing to the side when you crawl. The pouches attach to the side by velcro. It has a Camelback, and attachments more a pack and or any Alice type mounts you want. I have used it for two years and still like it.

Scott what is the Email address to use for you?

Pete you are the dude.
Mike M <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif, USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 18:22:37 (ZULU)

New questions!

For those of you that have Colt Flat Tops, would you rather have high/super high rings mounted on the flat top, or medium rings with a separate riser on the flat top? If you like a separate riser, which one?

Now that we "think" that Leupold will come out with a 3.5-10 M3 with sun shade threads, is it worth waiting for? Would the use of an ARD such as the Tonnebrea(sp?) be just as good?

Does anyone have a cost comparison for reloaded vs. factory ammo, particularly 270, 7mag, 308 and 300 mag? If you are shooting less than 500 rounds of a particular caliber per year, is it worth the cost of a higher end set of reloading supplies?

Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 19:08:11 (ZULU)

Bolt; The reloading cals. you mentioned (270, 7mm rem, 300win etc) are very common so high end dies should be inexpensive, even comp. die sets. I tend to use redding for most cals and I like foster seating dies. As far as cost goes once you have the dies and cases you have half the cost and there reuseable. You also can make better and non-available type ammo and shoot more than 500 rds yearly cause its cheaper. Midway and others have sales all the time on various components at reasonable prices. Question maybe should read do I want to spent all the time preping cases and reloading if I'm only going to shoot 500 rds.
Tony Y
Iselin, NJ, USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 20:03:18 (ZULU)

I just received an e-mail back from Clint at Fulton Armory. I asked a few questions about having a beading job and front end modification done. I explained what I have(Springfield Loaded Package rifle)and with what mount is installed(TSA 3rd generation). He came back saying that without even seeing my rifle that it probably doesn't even have any NM parts on it and that the mount I described to him was a Springfield. My mount mounts via one bolt to the side of the receiver and to the dove tail slot on top of the receiver and has TSA stamped in the side of it. I'm a little confused on how to approach something like this. The barrel in fact are marked NM up by the muzzle and is contoured as Springfield describes under the hand guard. I had the sites checked out and the only difference is what they put on these rifles and what is installed on the real NM rifles is that mine lack the hood and the NM rifles have hooded rear sites. Same front blade and same rear aperture They are the real deal and the trigger works way better than the ones supplied in the standard rifles. So what is what with these rifles? Who is telling the truth? Drop me a line and maybe you can help me out... Who else out there is a good M1A/M14 builder that can do the work and not take a years time??? HELP!!
Todd <duckman@eznet.net>
Andover, NY, USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 21:19:43 (ZULU)

Crydogaxel (sp?)
I tried to E-Mail you, but AOL says you don't exist. (I'm looking for a different Server, by the way.) Anyway, P.279 in Brownell's latest catalog has what you are looking for. (Cat. # 51).
Let me know how it goes... Thinking the same thing myself.
Spud
Dennis <usmcspud@aol.com>
Merced, Ca, USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 22:11:04 (ZULU)

To the person who was asking about sight mounts for their M1a:
I am still seating in my SA third gen. mount on my M1a...after approx 300 rounds. I keep reading the directions that came with the mount and all it says (besides the instructions, which must be followed to the letter) is that it may take awhile to seat in. It is seating in, but I get tired of D$#*!ing with it. So far it is not repeatable @ even 100 yds. But I'm haven't given up yet. My M1a is a fine shooter, but I sometimes wish that I would have discovered this site before I purchased it. (NO!, it's not for sale).

To The M1a Experienced:
Any more thoughts on 1st round from the magazine fliers? I know that this was touched upon a few months ago. (Just touched)
Thank-you in advance.

Dennis <usmcspud@aol.com>
Merced, Ca, USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 22:23:42 (ZULU)

Bolt'; I use the B-square. It's slightly heavier than the Leupold mounts but it is resettable meaning you can take it on and off thus allowing you to change sighting systems from scope to aimdot to night vision without rezeroing. Or at least all the ones I've seen are.
I keep a little Chinese 4 power in my second one these days just so I might have a spare. It is easy to reset and the torque is not critical with anything from fingers to a coin doing the job. it's about the only thing of theirs I use because it's about the only mount they make that don't move. Nothing wrong with the Leupolds if you don't plan to change sights.
B.rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Sunday, March 21, 1999 at 22:53:18 (ZULU)

Bolt: I asked the same thing of Leupold - should I wait on getting an VX-III 3.5-10 40mm LRT M3 until after a new objective lock ring is available? Their response was to go ahead and get the scope, as if it would be something that you can change out later. However, I'm going to confirm this before I put down money on one.

Now, I'm glad you emphasized "think"... They said one was in the works, but that doesn't always mean that it'll make it out to see the light of day. If that turns out to be the case, I'd think along the lines of getting a spare ring and threading it myself, or find some threadless hood that would fit.

I also asked about BDC cams for the 175gr that's come out, and about the 173gr. Response was that they HAD a 173gr for the MkIV M3, but it has been discontinued, and they don't have it for the VX-III M3. The don't have plans for a 175gr cam for either scope at this time. They do have a blank cam for the MkIV M3, but not for the 3.5-10 LR M3.

So, I'm still going to look for one, hoping to find one for less... either used, near wholesale, or something. Speaking of:

Jim Liles: I resent the email to you, I'm still interested... email me, post a message, call me, anything PLEASE! Thx!

Now, if I can only convince Mrs. Unertl to make a version of the Corps' scope for public consumption... LOL!
Rock <lnbright@juno.com>
TN, USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 01:11:40 (ZULU)

To Bill:
I also have a cheap 4x scope that I keep in my possibles bag. I use it for range-finding only. It was made in Japan at the time when Japan was not noted for good quality. I have a few old battle rifles that have plain crosshairs, like my O3 Springfield with a 8x Unertl scope. I also have old rifles with post and crosshair type reticules in them. Rangefinding is not easy with either of those type of scopes. But the nice thing about this cheap little 4x is that it has a duplex reticule which spans 10 inches at 100 yards making it easy to use as a rangefinder. The scope is marked "Horizon Hurricane". Have you ever heard of one?
On the tip about covering up the objective lens:
There is a side benefit that you can get out of doing this besides cutting down glare. It acts like a stop-down on a camera and give a better depth of field, This helps making an accurate mirage call easier.

To all:
With spring upon us I would like to take this opportunity to remind all of you that BEARS are coming out of hibernation. The US department of Wildlife suggests you should wear little bells on your clothing to warn the bears of your aproach when hiking in bear habitat. It is also suggested that you carry Pepper spray for self-defense against these animals. There are two main types of bears in North America, the Black Bear, and the Grizzly Bear. Of the two, the Grizzly Bear is the most dangerous. One can easily determine which type of bear is in your area by examing bear droppings. The droppings of The Black Bear will contain things like fur from dead animals, berry seeds, beeswax, and fish bones. The droppings of the Grizzly Bear will contain lots of little bells and smell like pepper.

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 02:22:08 (ZULU)

I have looked high and low for some first hand info on the STEYR (SSG-PIIK,how it shoots, accuracy, etc, maybe one of you gentlemen could pass on some info on the pros or cons of this rifle.If I do not get good solid information, H.S PRECISION rifles are looking pretty GOOD!!! thanks bill
bill w <bilzill@aol.com>
Denver, Colo., USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 03:47:37 (ZULU)

Pablito
i just returned from a show here in DFW area, Ibuy all my Eagle gear from a guy out of O.K.C. He should be back there on Monday. He is also a little cheaper than what Eagle will sell to you off their page.
he had a OD Becker on display. I finally broke down and bought aa
Eagle Drag Bag to carry to and from the range and stop dragging that Pelican case around. This guy did quite a bit of design work for Eagle, I also bought a vest that he designed and Eagle labels as their 'sniper' vest. He can get you anything Eagle carries quick, if he doesn't have it. He does not take any plastic. He is about to start carrying Mission Essential Hydration gear.

Dub Ball- AWG INTEGRATED
PO Box 20834
OKC, OK 73156
P 405/751-6427
F 405/755-2702
www.awgi.com

Tell Dub that I referred you, we were just talking about me referring him on this page if it where useful for him, I hate when people overstep their bounds before asked. He had no prior knowledge of this site.

Sarge
Thanks.
JFW <jackwilson@anglefire.com>
USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 03:56:07 (ZULU)

Hey fellers,

Jeff Argo:

The model 7400 is a hell of a gun, but it's not for long range in the fact that it is an autoloader. You will be limited on bullet types and weights, such as you probably don't want to be shooting pointy bullets. It is a good close range gun, lots of womp. If you were to go to a bolt action, I'd stay with 30-06 or maybe 270 for reloading purposes, hell you'll have all that brass from the 7400.

Hey, just went through the albums looking for photos of the old man for X-rings thing, Found a pic of his sniper school, 4th infantry Division Sniper school, kinda neat.

later

JR <mrpink@rapidnet.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 04:54:11 (ZULU)

Todd,
You said: "The barrel in fact are marked NM up by the muzzle and is contoured as Springfield describes under the hand guard".

My older M1A (circa late '70s) has a NM barrel too and is described as being a light heavy taper. Mine is marked SAK near the chamber and was made by Maremont Corp, a long time defense contractor. I'm pretty sure they made M60s too. These are excellent barrels and are spoken of highly by people you have had them.

Rock,
I talked to John and Elsie Unertl about that same matter about 10 to 15 years ago when they used to set up at Camp Perry. It was a no go then, citing economic reasons.
Ron N.

Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 11:59:52 (ZULU)

Sorry about bringing this up again as it was discussed well up on the roster. I have been out of the loop more or less all weekend.

This is for the guy who didn't think HS wanted to make a Savage stock and didn't understand why we'd be willing to pay for one. He totally misses the point. A replacement stock, at least to me, has little to do with an over all increase in accuracy. Many factory stocks will do just find in this area. Others will not. But it is in the area of strength and feel that the after market stock shines. Compared to a cheap plastic stock, the HS stock (as well as the McMillians, Brown Precisions, and about half a dozen other quality stocks)is a quantum leap. It is for that reason I am willing to buy one. Even if an 10FP shoots no better and still keeps the same moa average, which is quite good at 100 yards, the aftermarket unit gives a person many advanages over the factory plastic stock. They fit better, are stronger, fill your hands better, and settle in more solidly. They do not flex nearly as badly as the factory plastic.

As far as HS not wanting to make an FP stock? There could be nothing further from the truth. They KNOW there is a market for them and would certainly like to enter it. After all, they are a business and businesses to like to make moeny occasionally! So comments to the contrary are just silly.
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 12:05:39 (ZULU)

Attention: JEFF ALLEN. Please contact me directly if you read this. You did not include an order form with your order.

To my friend from Norway, you forgot to include the money order! Please contact me!

To ALL: XXXL size shirts are almost out of stock. Those of you who asked I reserve you one please contact me again with your intentions. Anyone interested in this size must contact me directly for availability. Thanks.

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 13:18:27 (ZULU)

uN-dUDE mIKE,

I like the article, very well done my friend!

peteR
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
bIG-cITY, bY-GaWd, USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 14:26:44 (ZULU)

I'm planning the Brookfield mount on an M1A. Can anyone offer some experienced opinions on return-to-zero detachable rings? Thanks. Michael.
Michael <michaelw@televar.com>
USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 17:26:02 (ZULU)

Pete thanks I am glad you like the review. It was fun doing it and hope to do some more products in the future. I am just waiting for a new rifle to test the new Leupold scope on. I might have a line on some McMillan stocks for testing also.

US Optic Scopes. I have used then only briefly. They have good optics, smooth adjustments and a wide field of view. They are heavy and appear that you could drive nails with them. I just learned that they make some without the bucket size objective and that is a plus. Many companies get the objectives so large that you need an elavator to get a site picture.

Valdada Scopes. Again the adjustments are micket mouse comapred to any of the good scopes out there. Lenses are clear but you need to be able to make adjustments.

Mike
Mike M <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif, USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 17:48:23 (ZULU)

I noticed a ways back, talk regarding 7mm Mag; 08; 06; 260; 280; 6.5/284, etc.

My past experience owning a 7 mag was that it was a very nice hunting round, although for hunting it showed me nothing that the 270, 06 and 08 hadn't shown me years before on deer and the like. Smoking a 300 win mag? hmmmm. All I know is what I know [and that ain't all that much], but of the several professional hunters / guides I know, the 300wm is the rig carried for north america. This is not saying the 7 is bad...it is not.

If you are talking about a 1,000 yard / meter gun, you owe it to yourself to speak with Bill Wylde. He is on this list from time to time. He has opened my eyes to many truths of long range gunning.

Bruce
Bruce <Bruce@mannlawfirm.com>
USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 17:55:53 (ZULU)

Does anyone know of other sources of the Brookfield Precision M1A mount besides Fulton Armory? I'm attempting a little comparison shopping. Thanks. Michael
Michael <michaelw@televar.com>
USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 21:01:54 (ZULU)

I was at the gun show last weekend and saw an interesting scope. It was a 4.5-14 (or was it -16?) zoom with a 50mm objective, AO via front ring down to 25 yards. Crosshair was mildot, but it was placed ahead of the zoom lens, so it changed size with the power setting. Crosshair was also lighted by a knob on the left, and there was a bubble level in the bottom of the sight picture. Elevation/windage was 1/4MOA target turrets with 7.5MOA/turn. I should have asked the price, but didn't. Scope was labeled "Springfield", but I never heard of this model before, has anybody else?
Grasshopper <wd6cmu@earthlink.com>
Richmond, CA, USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 22:45:12 (ZULU)

Bolt:
Greetings all,

Finally got around to checking out this site. I am very impressed with the entire presentation (hats off to the creators). I am a former member of the 82nd ABN, never got to sniper school but fell in love with long range work whilst playing with SOCOM. So, I guess that I would only qualify as a self trained poser (insert sarcastic chuckle).

Speaking of this, dows anyone know of some good distance ranges in the midwest? Something 700 meters plus? I have had to go to Nevada every few weeks to get some range time in and I want to find a place closer to home.

If no one knows of a place, I was also thinking of buying some land in Wisconsin for a private range. If there is any interest in getting access to a private facility, let me know.

Bolt:
Personally, I didn't like the patrol pack as I got some seam seperation on mine. So, I added some stitching and gave it to a buddy. I currently use an issue pack for longer duration stuff (if I remember correctly, the pack nomenclature is "CFP-90"...it's that huge camo job that the Army started issuing in about '92). However, for short jaunts I had a problem finding a pack that fit the bill. So, instead of buying and trying a bunch of different packs, I cut up large and medium ALICE packs and built my own from their materials. Inclusive in this, I attaches some netting over the entire thing so I can add natural camo or can tie on some burlap. This allows good tie-in with my suit. I have the patterns for the pack, as well as a material list, buried in my filing cabinet somewhere if you would like a copy.

JFW:

I haven't been very happy with vests as designed (although I will have to check out the one someone mentioned that swings out of the way). I have an Eagle vest that I have used for awhile now, but it gets in the way when you have to slither around on your belly. So, I made a strap that holds the vest against my sides when I need to crawl. Without this, I wouldn't use it as neither crawling around on top of pouches nor having the vest flopping around is something I want happening when it counts.

Does anyone out there have any experience with the H&K PSG-1? I was looking at picking one up but would like to know if it is worth the price tag.

Also, I have a friend looking at the Blaser R-93 Tactical, but I can't find any stats on it. Any opinions?

If either of these is in the review section, don't bother with the flames, I will consider myself an idiot if I find them there and will not require additional confirmation of this fact.

Later all
adownie <adownie@interaccess.com>
Naperville, IL, USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 22:47:42 (ZULU)

Grasshopper...
What you saw was a Springfield 3rd. Generation scope. It is 4.5x14 w/56 mm front objective. They are not as sharp as a Leupold, or B&L Tac, but they are better than the Tascos and Bushnells. The bubble is very handy if you shoot at long range. They are about $600 new.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, March 22, 1999 at 23:38:29 (ZULU)

This is my first time on this web site and I love it. This is also only my second time on the internet. I was not aware of the passing of Carlos Hathcock. It makes me sad that such a great man with such a love for his country had to suffer from such a crippling disease.
I have recently became very interested in the art of sniping. In the past 3 weeks I have read 3 250-300 page books on sniping. I need information on the schools that offer sniping programs in the marines. I need to know how I would go about getting into such a place.
I am still in High school and I am seriously pondering the thought of the marines after graduation.

Zachary Purvis <bbbkz@stargate.com>
Evans City, Pennsylvania, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 00:04:34 (ZULU)

Todd,

You had some questions about the Springfield Armory M1A you have. As for the NM modifications to the M1A, there are several. I will list some. NM rear sight with hooded aperture and half minute windage knob and sight base. NM front sight, either .072 or .062 post. "Unitized" NM gas system. This means attaching the front band to the gas cylinder with screws or by welding it. The screws are best. You can buy the NM gas cylinder from SA. The barrel you got is probably something made for SA by Wilson. I had one of those on my NM at first. The bore was very rough, and the throat was ungodly long. After about 3000 rounds it was junk. I rebuilt the rifle with a McMillan NM heavy fiberglass stock, and a Kreiger Stainless Heavy match barrel. NM mods to the stock, routing and bedding in the receiver area, and grinding out the inside of the front ferrule and stock so that the gas cylinder won't make contact with it. NM trigger so that the pull is a crisp 4.5 to 5.0 Lbs. I like mine closer to 5.0 as long as it is crisp. This prevents "Doubling", or getting more than one shot per trigger pull. Also, don't grease the sear or you may still get doubles. NM mod to the handguard, epoxy front of the handguard to the gas system and use some RTV to attach the handguard clip to the handguard. Also, the handguard needs to be sanded down so it won't touch the stock. For bedding, I like Bisonite. It is harder to use, but is impervious to solvents and won't shrink. I almost forgot the NM flash suppressor, this just a standard unit that has been reamed out with a number 7 taper-pin reamer. I use the Brookfield op-rod spring guide too. For someone who likes very accurate semi-autos, this a good choice. Sub-moa is common. But it is heavy.
Bill B <DC8PLUMBER@aol.com>
Shelby Co, KY, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 00:33:59 (ZULU)

Has anyone shot, used, or have an opinion on the Springfield Armory SR8 Heavy Barrel Counter Sniper Rifle. I am looking at buying on with a Springfield 3rd Gen scope and bipod. I have been shooting a SSG PII w/ MKIV and set triggers but would like a semi to complement the bolt.

Your input and comments are welcome.....
T2
Anthony Tull <atull@granbury.com>
Granbury, TX, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 00:42:03 (ZULU)

Todd

I have two SA M1A package deals. They came with upgraded barrels, triggers and a N.M. flash surpressor. Clint is not pulling your leg. Fultons N.M. M1As and Springfields N.M. and Super Match are a lot different than ours. There is a lot more N.M. parts and tuning that goes into these guns. Your gun would benefit most from bedding and gas system tuning. Don't get to hung up if you can't get those little sub moa groups. The most important thing is HITTING the target. You don't need a 1/2 moa gun to make hits. My package deal M1As are accurate enough to make hits out to 600 yards and that's what counts. Buy some good match anmo , practice the basics and you will be able to make hits, too. As far as gunsmiths goes, both Fulton and Springfield will do a good job on your rifle. I had the same scope mount you do and had a lot of problems with it. I have been told the Brookfield is the best. A lot of matches have been won with M1As. When the guys at the range are pinging on you about your groups, rest assured you own a winner and they are just jealous.

Maybe after I learn how to use this new computer, I will do an artical for S.C. on what is done to accurize M1As. What do you think? Anyone interrested?

CJ
CJ <T18man@gateway.net>
New caslte, DE, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 01:19:39 (ZULU)

CJ - I'd definitely be interested in hearing what you have to say about accurizing M1As.
Brian
Brian Meyette <brian@turbont.net>
Cornish, NH, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 01:52:20 (ZULU)

I am happy with I have and know its not a NM but it does have potential. I wasn't slamming Clint either, I was just put off by what he had to say. Thanks for the info in the e-mails and the more I hear from you guys hear the better off I am. I have found a builder that will do the work needed and guarentee his work. 4-6weeks is better than almost a year!! It'll be no bolt gun but will be plenty accurate for what I'll be using it for.
Todd <duckman@eznet.net>
Andover, NY, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 02:03:43 (ZULU)

Mr. Mike the Undude: Just finshed reading your article about the HS Precision Verticcal Stock. I have had one for about 1 1/2 years in a 308 topped with my B&L Tactical. Great Rifle. Great Stock. Your last question was How do you get an aluminim bed in a McMillan Stock? The question should be "How do you get a McMillan stock. It seems like the name McMillan is starting to become "M" work just like the "R" is for ... well you guys know. Very good and concise article.

Somebody asked about Badger Ordnance address: OK OK one more time so you don't have to go to the review page. Badger Ordnance,6302 N. Park Ave. Gladstone, Missouri 64118.

Ok here is question for you barrel efficiandos. Am I being lulled into a false sense of security by using a Douglas barrel. I have bbeen using Douglas Premium XX air-gaged barrels for as long as I can remember. But nobody ever mentions them. Cmon, I'm a big guy! What is wrong with them for tactical shooting as compared to a Hart, Shilen, Krieger, Obermeyer, etc. I do remember building 2 tactical rifles with Shilen 308 1-10 barrels and both sucked with a capital S.

The person asking about a PSG-1 cost is about $7000.00 with all the bells and whistles. Overpriced _Hell Yes. but the way HKs are going up probably a good investment. I still get a woody when I see one!!

Steyr SSG, Excellent rifles, excellent accuracy, but remember you are paying for import duty on these toys also. Hard to keep up with the prices of some these things because they are appreciating so quickly.

Hope this helps.

peteR: Dudu - oops!! Dude, I had a WVa. insult to tell you but I forgot.

Daryl: The upside down one.. Hope things get right side up for you.

Darrell: Let me know about the flight into Cleveland or Akron/Canton>>

Later folkes.

al
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Li'l City, Ohio, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 02:29:32 (ZULU)

peteR: I know, you are probably wondering why Darrell is coming to Cleveland. (Or why anyone would want to come to Cleveland). Well we are going down to West Virginny and see if we can find some of them sheep-dorkers. Where did you say you lived agin??

al (fly-boy)
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Here Again in , Ohier, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 02:35:29 (ZULU)

Hey Al O...
Ain't nothing wrong with the Douglas Air gauged barrels. I have 3 and they're fine. Not bench grade, but Tac rifles don't need .10" ability, and the Douglas BBL's don't cost $600 either.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 02:43:22 (ZULU)

Al O.
Ticket is on hold and I'm going tomarrow to pick it up. WE'RE GOING!!!
I'll give you a call on the land-line and give you details. No need to bore everyone about our "little trip."
Oh, I'm flying into Cleavland-Hopkins. Say, landing around 5:?? P.M.
Return Sun. 5:?? P.M.

D. West <westforce@juno.com>
No sleep, in IL., USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 03:05:20 (ZULU)

On the M1A NM - I do believe there is also either the NM vent hole in the gas plug or the slotted NM piston to reduce piston bump during return to battery of the bolt. The hole does cause NRA service rifle compliance "problems" and is the reason for the slotted piston. Do not use both, either one or the other.

H&K PSG-1 - Wouldn't own it, and neither does any military or police (to my knowledge) sniper untis. Over priced and not worth it, except to say I own one. Better ot spend the money on an AR-10 or SR-25 and the rest of the money on equipmetn and ammo, ammo, ammo, for practice. We just shoot the PSG-1 today, as we do every course, and I am always in awe over the ability to make a weapon that heavy and still not that much better. Sorry Al, I can't quite get it up over the PSG-1, looks cool, but too expensive for what you get. Now that Steyr is nice, unless you are going into a dirty environment and then those tight tolerances are a pain. As a police rifle I'm not sure it can be beat though!

On the Blaser - Looked at it at the Shot Show and found it to be interesting. Heard from a number of people good things about it and found the bolt mechanism different. It would take time to get used to, but then would be very fast.

On the SA - the objective lens is hugh and the reticle is BUSY! For myself, I found it to be distracting, some liked it though. I think that it would distract the eye for a precise shot. Really don't know because I have only looked through it and not fired it.

Guess I've babbled about enough again! Still like the idea of the rifle scope as spotter scope. This would allow the spotter to mil with the shooter, give a new life to the vari that is just too powerful for any real shooting, except under "ideal conditions", or that SA 56mm objective that sticks the scope up so high that you just can't get a comfortable cheek weld! :) BeeRogers come up with some more of those!

Rick

Rick <RBowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 03:06:43 (ZULU)

Would like to get some opinions on the magic coatings such as Rogard, with regards to them constituting an insulating barrier on barrels-- that is, I suspect that the spray on/bake on finishes have a detrimental effect on barrel cooling. I am thinking that anything that is between the outside of my barrel and air, is keeping the heat in.
By the way, the baking laquer in Brownell's catalog works very well. It bakes into an extremely tough finish. I have not done a comparo with any of the big name finished, but I'll bet it would compare well.

Ned
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
3R, MI, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 03:28:45 (ZULU)

Does anyone have any feedback on a Redfield 56mm Ultimate Illuminator
Anthony Rhoda <aguidor@yahoo.com>
N.O., LA, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 03:47:09 (ZULU)

I realize no mildot. But just as hunting or target at med known ranges
Anthony Rhoda <Same>
Same, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 03:59:30 (ZULU)

7mm outdoin' a 300 win mag??

no.

unless the shooter was more comfortable with the 7mm.

In all truth it is a time getting a 7 stw to shoot, pain in the ass, all the specs can be exact to the print, and it still has a mind of its own, where as the 300 is a cool shooter, every time. 7mmrem mag?? same situation, different bullets, pain in the ass are most of the hi-velocity 7mms, I dearly love the 7mm-08's. Sorry

JR <mrpink@rapidnet.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 04:03:40 (ZULU)

Rock,
You mentioned something about that troublesome BDC dial for the Leupold. If you take that 308-168M dial and use it as is with 175 grain bullets at 2600 fps. I think you will find that it tracks pretty close. I have heard some say that the velocity must be 2675 but I don't think that is true. If the click values are true MOA clicks then 2600 fps works fine if you read the dial in meters. You can also use that 168 dial for 168 grain bullets if you read the range in yards instead of meters and it will be close if the M.V. is a little less than 2550 f.p.s. Certain lots of M852 might give you those numbers.
If anyone would like to see my tables for the 175 gr. Sierra @ 2600 f.p.s. _(clickhere)_
This table is in 5 yard increments and goes out to 1100 yards or 1000 meters.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 04:51:49 (ZULU)

Hi. I am new to long range precision shooting and can't yet swing for the 'good' gear. I am shooting a Browning A-bolt BOSS in 7 Rem mag. With 150 gr. btsp reloads. I have recently installed a Sheperd
scope. At 500 yrds. (ranged with the scope. not measured) the drop is
right on and the gun will print just under 3" for 3 shots when i do my part.

Is this about as good as a setup like this will get? I have yet to try shots longer than this but have enough room to try out to 800 or so.
can you recomend a good bullet for this range? Thanks.
R. Conaway <recon@midusa.net>
USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 04:56:47 (ZULU)

Ron N.:
A few years ago I called John, and he said the contract prevents him from selling the USMC10x to the public.Recently I had been hearing the rumors from several sources that the Marine Corps is switching from Unertl scopes to Leupold scopes, so I thought I'd call again to see if the contract had ended. Elsie told me that since John passed away a year ago, lots of people had been asking the same thing. She said that they still have their contract with Quantico. I suggested that it'd be a popular scope if they made a civilian version... she said that John had been thinking about it before he passed away. I don't think, though, that she was too interested in pursuing it further.

Steve:
It wasn't comments on personal experience with it, I had been looking for info on the scope, and was posting info that Leupold had passed on to me... info that must be taken with a grain of salt.
It was pointed out to me that the "x100M" dial is for the 175gr @ 2675 fps with the range in meters; the "x100Y" dial is for the 168gr @ 2635 fps with the range in yards. (thanks Pablito! ;-)

L8R,
Rock <lnbright@juno.com>
TN, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 05:37:44 (ZULU)

About seven years ago I purchased a remington M700 pss (.308 cal) rifle. Topped with a leupold mk 4 10x scope ,1900 rds were fired through it. Then I decided to send it to H-S Presicion and had them transform it into their tacical rifle version. They trued and squared the action lapped the locking lugs installed a stainless steel heavy barrel .900 in.diameter at the muzzle and set it in their vertical grip stock w/ adjustable l.o.p. and cheeckpeice. In it's original configuration it averaged .450-.700 m.o.a. When H-S was done with it, it averaged .300-.550 m.o.a. Due to the fact the cheeckpeice and l.o.p. adjustments couldn't be locked, I have recently sent the rifle to robar to steelbed the action in their SR90 stock and put a steel trigerguard and floorplate. The SR90 stock is trully magnificent. My question(s) is what exactly is steelbeding as oppossed to glassbeding , and how can one visually determine if the locking lugs have been lapped. Is the complete rear section of the lugs suppossed to be shiny indicating contact ? I have checked them and one seems slightly brighter in shine than the other ,
while both have about 10-15% surface area were the metal doesn't seem to touch (10-15% surface area of non shiny metal).
P.S. Since the action was done up 2890 rds.have been fired. Thanks in advance for any knowledgable input on this subject.
Duece 44
Flushing, NY, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 05:51:47 (ZULU)

Rock - Steve gave you bad data. If you use the M dial and shoot the 168MK at 2600, you will be 8 to 10 feet low at 1000. The dial is marked for the M118-LR round, which is faster, with a bullet that has a much higher BC. I know, I use the scope and have been there with Fed 168/GM match. And if you have to keep correction notes taped to your gun for every range, for a scope that's best feature is speed, you might as well get a B&L Tac, or other target scope. Listen to those folks that actually own and shoot this scope, and know what they're talking about, not those that don't own it, think they know it, and are guessing.

I spoke to Elsie at Unertl last week, and she says "NO" to the civilian sales on the Unertl 10x.

Longshadow <longshadow@usa.net>
USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 11:03:35 (ZULU)

Rick:
The Dutch Police-force have been using the PSG-1 for about as long as it has been around. They seem to be extremely pleased with it. Unfortunately, information about it's use is very sketchy. I'll see if I can get some first-hand opinions from some of the cops over here. Sit tight!

L8er all!

Stefan
Stefan <stefan@sniperhide.com>
Somewhere, Someplace, The Netherlands - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 12:22:36 (ZULU)

JR,
What is the Official H-S Precision torque setting for the trigger guard bolts on the Remington PSS/Police DM stocks? Somebody just printed that the cortrect spec is 43INCH POUNDS for aluminum trigger guards and 65 inch pounds for the steel M-24 SWS type trigger guards.
Is this true or just the pontification of another "scribe".

Incidentally, those who get T/S may want to read the editorial comments on p.22 of the April issue regarding those who access or post data via the Internet.

"We are not worthy!", "We are not worthy!"

Fly Boy, let me know the ETA so Depity and I can close the 7-11's and Sheetz's on the route. That way all of your shots WILL be at long, LONG range for city boyz.

Darrell-Darrell, Are you sure you know what you're doing?

Chao!

peteR
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
bIG-cITY, bY-gAwD, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 13:39:02 (ZULU)

Rick;That idea seems to be attractive to some maybe it will kinda catch on. It would be nice to have the extra scope in country if something goes wrong with the primary.
H&K PSG-1. I guess an old coyote hunter should keep quiet but I've been there years ago haven't seen any real late ones. They are reliable to feed, ruin the brass for reloading (it can be done but..)
The system becomes unstable with reloads by the way. The component of the gun are strong enough. It's a bit heavy but the accuracy is not what a bolt gun is. The noise is a factor (loading to begin with).Safety is good. Stock is so so. Design just doesn't allow pinpoint accuracy. Head shots at 250 yards maybe....Too heavy.
I rigged several HK-91 and 93 to the so called sniper trigger and tried them. Accuracy is so, so. Oh yes the scope mounts they reset but they weigh more than the gun.
R.Conaway; Yeah 3" at 500 yards. I would s##T can that gun. You can put it in my dumpster by the way, early some morning. Let me know when you are gonna do it! Darn old Brownings never could get em to shoot. I doubt if that thing would go 6" at 1000 unless there was no wind.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 13:47:35 (ZULU)

Speaking of screws and stuff, this BOLT would like information on the proper torque of the following screws:
Leupold ring screws.
Leupold base screws connecting into Remington Sendero and PSS receivers.
Remington Sendero and PSS trigger guard screws.
Are the torque values being spoken of here the values for the screw or for the hole? As stupid question you ask? Probably, but if you torque a screw designed for 65"# into a hole designed for 45"# you will be "screwing up".
El Bolto out!

Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 13:56:35 (ZULU)

Bye the Bye, found out that a 22 has a range of a mile and 1/2. No wind at Hathcock II........................hello 541T LOL.
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 13:59:14 (ZULU)

Al,
I have had two rifles with the Douglas barrels and loved them both, one was in a .223 and the other was a 25-06. They both shot great and were not picky about loads. When I sold the 25-06 to my brother I had another built with a SS Lilja and it shot well but was very picky and would only shoot one or two loads with any consistancy. I don't feel it was even close to the old CM Douglas that I had before. I think Douglas gets left out because of all the "New" kids on the block and all the adds and "We" are always looking for something better!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 14:21:29 (ZULU)

Longshadow: Thanks for the confirmation on the Leupold data. I wonder what is going to happen to Unertl Optical if/when the contract with Quantico expires....

Questions for the masses:
I was drooling over Mike Lau's TBA-M40A1s again, and was going through the specs for the n'th time. There are two questions that I've often wondered about the M40A1, not just Mike's version, but seeing it on his page again prompts me to ask:

1) What does it mean to clip-slot a receiver?
2) Why use a modified Winchester floorplate?

L8R,
Rock <lnbright@juno.com>
TN, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 14:58:55 (ZULU)

I NEED HELP!

Has any of you guys ever handled a Technicarbon Dynamics stock? (Sarge???) I'm looking into buying one, but with me being in the Netherlands, I can't check out an example..... Any input would be appreciated!

Torsten: Have you started reloading for the Fifty yet? I'll prepare the scuba-gear... As we're going to be together on the Harskamp ranges, we might just as well end up in a deluge again.... How about a Ghillie made out of rubberized burlap? Doens't do much for concealment, I'm afraid, but it sure works for my fetish..... Think about it, mud-lover! (BTW. Your McMillan is left-handed, isn't it??? :-)))

Thanks all!

Stefan out.
Stefan <stefan@sniperhide.com>
Somewhere, Someplace, The Netherlands - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 15:26:51 (ZULU)

Hey Rock...
The Quantico contract is about 10% of Unertl's military contracts... they make tons of other optical stuff.
I would guess that they might re-think the civilian thing over again, but they are so back-ordered, that they aren't wanting for work.

> 1) What does it mean to clip-slot a receiver?

A slot is cut on the front edge of the back receiver bridge, then two small notches are put in the walls of the slot... it is like the slot in Springfield '03, and military Mausers so that stripper clips can be used. The Remington .308 40x repeater rifles have this slot. Some onepiece scope bases use this slot for more support.

2) Why use a modified Winchester floorplate?

Not to sound like I'm bashing Remingtons... but the Winchester floorplate is solid steel, and the Remington's is aluminum. The USMC spec for the M40 series rifles is a steel floorplate/triggerguard. The trigger guards for both of them are aluminum, but they are easely replaced.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 16:22:28 (ZULU)

Shooting in the rain...
Using a .308 bolt gun with rear locking lugs I needed to put 6.5 minutes of extra elevation on at 600yds. It was not a surprise, I had shot in the rain before. One of the other shooters mentioned that this was a symptom of "rear lugged" bolt guns. I raised an eyebrow and decided to ask around. Any information on this.

Extra info - the barrel had cooled from the previous shots as I had spent time in the pits. I put 5 minutes elevation on before I started the string and actually needed another minute and a half.

J.D.

J.D. Hicks <hicks@zso.dec.com>
Seattle, WA, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 16:34:50 (ZULU)

PeteR.;I don't get the mag but my imagination will probably carry me through.
B.rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 16:51:23 (ZULU)

All:

1) Thanks for the advice in the past several months. Many responses received regarding what schope I should get for the Rem 700 Police. After much reasearch, reading, suggestions and a whole lot of O.T., bought a LRM1. Going to the range in an hour to zero. Like Christmas all over again.

2) Someone mentioned Eagle's BPP. I had problems with their pack due to the weight I was carrying. Same thing as someone previously mentioned: seam separation. An ex-ranger that joined our team pointed me to an outfit in Virginia, London Bridge Trading Co. Nice packs that they will customize. Off the shelf held up a bit better for me. But, I found a local ex-SF type that makes even better equipment and does all sorts of mods to standard issue equipment, Tactical Tailor. Local and it is still better than others. A bit less expensive. I'm having him do a large ruck mod package right now. For about $100, makes for a new pack that can hold the sometimes 120# loads I may hump.

It's a rare sunny day with no wind up here so I'm off. Gotta break in a new (old) Garand I got from DCM too . . .

Morris
Morris <mparrish@oz.net>
Seattle Metro, WA, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 18:29:01 (ZULU)

Data needed for .308 Winchester handloads!! Firearm is newly acquired Savage 10FP - 24" barrel with 1:10 twist. Components available for initial loads: Brass - Winchester and Federal Gold Medal; Primers - CCI 200 and Federal Match (205M?); Propellant - Winchester W748 and Hodgdon H335; Bullets - Nosler 150gr Ballistic Tip and Sierra 168gr BTHP Match. Anyone have any good luck with .308 loads using these components?

Gary <GSX1166@hotmail.com>
Kansas City, MO, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 19:01:56 (ZULU)

EL BOLTO: According to the manual I got from Premier Reticles with the Mark IV M3 scope I just ordered from them, the recommended torque for the base screws is 30 "# and 20"# for the ring screws. It also said the Mark 4 rings should be set to 65 "#.

Someone else previously asked about the torque setting for the factory 700 PSS stock screws. I'd also like to find out this value, if anyone has it.

Third, I called Remington to ask about the procedures for adjusting the factory trigger. All they said was "DON'T TOUCH!". Through trial and error, I figured out that the bottom scew seems to set the trigger pull weight (out for less) and the top screw seems to set the travel (I think it was out for more, but i don't have my notes with me). Does anyone have any "proper" adjustment info for this trigger?

The trigger also has a bit of slack and creep that I didn't like, but I was unable to adjust it out. What's recommended? trigger job? new drop-in trigger, like Shilen?

RE: the post last week about the reliability of Leupolds & Premier Reticles; mine seems fine so far. Picked up the rifle Saturday and mounted the scope Sat night. Fired a couple rounds thru it and it all seems hunky-dory. It was 6" low and 4" left at 30 yards with the scope at zero, with dual-dovetail rings & bases, so now I am switching to STD one-piece base & rings to get it onto paper at 100.

Semper Fi, hogs!
Brian
Brian Meyette <brian@turbont.net>
Cornish, NH, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 19:22:59 (ZULU)

There were a few reasons for going with the steel floorplate/trigger guard on the M40A1. But the most obvious is strength. You'll crack an aluminum guard a lot sooner than steel. I think it was as simple as that. The marines went with the Winchester guard since it was readily available.

For those of you who want the strength of steel, but do not want to go with the hassle of mounting a Winchester guard to a Remington stock and action, check out Brownells and other companies like them. Times have changes and these things are readily available from several sources. Several choices of top notch steel trigger guards can be had for prices that run from reasonable to insane. HS even offers one that has a detachable mag. It ain't cheap though!
Scott <target@voicenet.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 19:32:06 (ZULU)

JR: You're right on the money when saying a .300 Win Mag has a slightly flatter trajectory over the 7mm Rem Mag.

However,I can't see why you find the high velocity 7mm classs cartridges such as waste of time and hassle.Is your opinion based on personal experience or is your bias based on a preference for .30 cal cartridges.

I suppose any one of us could have a bad experience with any cartridge on any particular day.But to slam an entire class of cartridges? To make such a statement, I'm going to assume you've had experience with every high velocity 7mm cartridge that has been designed.Is this a fair assumption?

7mm bullets,generally speaking,have a higher ballistic co-efficient than .30 cal bullets for any comparable bullet weight.So the in-accuracy you mention is probably not bullet related (assuming you were using quality made bullets to begin with).It probably has more to do either with your rifle(s) or your reloading technique,if in fact you do indeed reload your own ammunition.

My very first target rifle,a Remington Sendero,is in 7mm Rem Mag.The very first group I had shot was sub-1 moa.My experience with this cartridge is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.

I'll be the first to admit that I've never owned a .300 Win Mag before.However,I did consider it before I purchased the Sendero.

To this date my average 3 shot group is .795 moa.I've shot roughly 700 rounds through it so far.

As far as 7mm Rem Mag is concerned,in my opinion it is a more practical entry level cartridge for those wishing to shoot magnum cartridges.The advatages I've experienced are as follows:

(1)Recoil:Basically put,if you can handle a .30/06 in terms of recoil you shouldn't have any problems with 7 Rem Mag.Can you say this about .300 Win Mag?

(2)Barrel life:You are burning on average between 11-13 grains more powder in a .300 Win Mag to get between 150-200 fps more out of a .30 cal bullet than you could a 7mm.Does this sound really efficient to you?The increased powder charge results in more heat thus more barrel and throat errosion.Yadda,Yadda,Yadda.In the end you can probably expect longer barrel life with 7 Rem Mag over a .300 Win Mag.

Every cartridge has its positive and negative attributes when comparing one to another.In the end it is the shooter who will have to decide which cartridge suits his needs best.

I'm certainly going to add a .300 magnum to my stable fairly shortly.I'm leaning to a .300 Weatherby or .308 Norma Magnum (.30/.338 Win)

I'm not trying to start:The 7mm Rem Mag vs. .300 Win Mag Debate
I just want to point out that the the high velocity 7mm magnum cartridges deserve more respect than what you give them.

All the Best,

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S. , Canada - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 20:04:08 (ZULU)

Stefan,

I am heating my house with the heat my full auto .50 press generates !:)
Should have about 150 Round´s of 780 gn Monolithic Match (@ 8 DM/rd.) for our little can shoot.
I´ll make sure to bring my NBC Mask with me for that kinky rubber Ghillie show !

Any info on the date ? We will probably Air drop with a team of two. Can you stake out our LZ ? Also please check on the KNSA question !

Mud ? ?? there better be some ! I hate going home clean !

"Ende"
Torsten <lasercon@dialup.globe.de>
Germany - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 20:05:35 (ZULU)

I'm still running down information on having work done on my M1A. Some say weld the gas cylinder to the barrel band and some say do the screw thing. I do realize a weld has the chance to break and the screws have a chance to loosen up. The old way seems to be to use screws because thats what has been done for years but tig welding and the guys doing it today have dramatically increased the reliability. So do I go with the old technology or the new? Do I use screws to hold it on two sides or tig it and secure it at four points?
Todd <duckman@eznet.net>
Andover, NY, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 20:05:41 (ZULU)

Brian,

The Remington trigger, is easily adjustable as three screws are provided for the task. Looking at the left side of it you'll see an access hole that allows you to actually see the sear engagement. When you look into the top of the trigger housing you see a shiny pivoting bar that Remington calls the "sear safety cam". Odd name but I'll use it. I'm going to assume that you have the barreled action in a vise and the bolt is removed and the chamber empty. The top screw in front of the trigger housing is for over-travel. Push down on the sear safety cam with a slender object while looking at the access hole. You'll see it stops when it hits the "trigger connector". If you pull the trigger now you'll see that the trigger connector moves out of the way to allow the sear safety cam to fall. The over-travel screw must allow for this to happen, but without excess travel of the trigger after the firing pin falls. I don't think that there is an exact clearance specified. I would guess that .010" would be safe and reasonable. The bottom screw on the front of the trigger presses against a spring which in turn pushes against the trigger connector and returns it to battery, ready for the next cocking action. Backing out that screw will lighten the trigger pull somewhat, but not a lot. The screw on the backside of the housing is for sear engagement. That determines how far the trigger connector moves rearward under the sear safety cam. I would start with about .015" engagement. Put the bolt in the action and lock it down. Pull the trigger slowly and you'll probably feel a little creep before the firing pin falls. Move the screw in about 1/4 turn and recock. Try again. Eventually you'll get to a point where the firing pin falls but there is almost no trigger movement.

When you are satisfied with your job now you want to check that the sear is safe under most conditions. Cock the firing pin once again with the rifle assembled. Now with your fist bump the buttstock quite firmly trying to make the firing pin fall. Bump on all sides of the buttstock..... top, bottom, etc. Now with the muzzle pointing up bump the butt plate on the floor a couple of times. All this will assure you that you have a reasonably safe rifle. Also, with the rifle cocked, partially lift and lower the bolt handle several times. This will wiggle the sear safety cam a little. Put the safety on and pull the trigger firmly. Now pull the safety off and partially lift and lower the bolt handle several times once again. Also, close the bolt quite forcefully a few times on an empty chamber. Of course the firing pin must not fall. If it does fall, increase the sear engagement until it ceases to happen. Do what you can to make the gun fail while it is in your basement under your control.

When you are satisfied with your work then seal each screw with clear fingernail polish. I always degrease everything before I start so that the sealant gets a good bite.

Remington has had many variations of this trigger through the years, but the sear engagement screw and over-travel have always been in the same place. The spring tension screw has been moved around several times, especially on the 40Xs.

Well I hope this helps you. Don't be afraid to experiment, but always finish up with a safe rifle. If you can, pick up a spare trigger at a gunshow. This way you can take it apart, clean it, and know how they work. There is only a couple of parts in them so you can not go wrong. The day will come when Remington triggers will not be adjustable.

That's about all I know about them.

Of course all appropriate disclaimers apply.
Ron N.

Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 20:40:10 (ZULU)

Greetings, let me start by saying I have been away from the roster for a while and I am deeply saddened to hear of the passing of Gunny, I am sure we all feel the loss.
Second I am in need of some help, if any of you have spent any time with the older ( and now defunct from what I hear ) redfield scopes. I have just come into possesion of a redfield 2-7 variable with a strange "range finding " feature. I have to admit I am not able to figure out how it is supposed to work. There are a pair of ranging lines above the Duplex reticle but the distance between them seems to be constant, moving the power ring changes a yardage indicater inside the scope and brings Both of the lines closer to the crosshair ( or farther from depending on which way you are moving the power) I also am trying to figure out how you would Zero the scope verticly as the knob does not seem to be adjustable as the knob itself has a tang on it that engages the mechanism inside, so there is but a single position in which to place things. Any one have any idea's on where I could come up with some info on this thing? any one played with one at all? I understand that this is not a piece of sniper equipment and I am sorry for taking the space on the roster, but you are the only people I can think of that might actually have experiance with such a piece, please feel free to e-mail me so as not to waste the space here.

Thanks

Grey <greywuuf@alaska.net>
Alaska, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 21:14:21 (ZULU)

Torsten: I'll bring my extra long garden-hose to wet your spot on the firing-line. Happy? For LZ, you can use the same spot. Come down shooting and I'll buy you a beer. Watch for red smoke, I repeat red smoke for wind indication.
Gass mask? Ooooh! Torsten! Cut it out. You're causing a rise in my Levi's! Is it the one with the filter on a hose? Makes me look like an elephant. Correction: makes me look MORE like an elephant. Yeah, yeah, I have to loose some weight before visiting SMTC in June.....

All: So, how about that Technicarbon stock, huh?

Stefan out. Click.
Stefan <stefa@sniperhide.com>
Somewhere, Someplace, The Netherlands - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 21:22:30 (ZULU)

Rock,
The 308 m cam clcik adjustments are
100 m=0
200 m=up 2
300 m=up 5
400 m=up 9
500 m=up 13
600 m=up 19
700 m=up 25
800 m=up 32
900 m=up 39
1000 m=up 47
According to Garth Kending of the Leupold technical service department, the value of each click is supposed to be worth 1 MOA or
1.047 at 100 yards or 1.1449992 at 100 meters, whichever you prefer.
I will stand by my data until someone that knows how to read and count proves me wrong. What I said was that the 175 gr. Sierra at 2600 will track pretty close to this cam. The 175 gr. Sierra at 2675 is not compatitable. This is not VOO-DOO like barrel vibrations or the Corolius effect. This is simple math. And this is not the only load combo that will work with this cam. I am sure there are others. If someone would like to take a crack at putting this to bed and provide hard numbers to back it up, rather than some heresay story, I stand willing and able to admit that I am wrong on this.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 22:00:43 (ZULU)

Hello everyone,

im looking for information about the Heckler & Koch G36 Weapon System, accuracy, reliability and just about everything.

anyone

Jonny
Jonny <sniper_is@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 22:23:26 (ZULU)

Does anyone out there have experience with the AR-10, target version? I occasionally see info on the SR-25 and have some personnal experience with it, but I'm curious about the AR and how it performs and compares to the Stoner. Any opinions or first hand knowlwdge?

Barry
Barry Chance <Barry_Chance@maxtor.com>
Longmont, CO, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 22:59:11 (ZULU)

Stefan:

I have a Technicarbon Dynamics stock on my 308. The rifle was originally bedded in an HS tactical (M24 style) stock. I sold this stock. I had, on impulse, ordered a Technicarbon stock after talking to Walt. I had no barrelled action for it until I had to sell the M24.

Anyway, I just "dropped in" the barreled action and tightened the action screws. No bedding as of yet. The barrel floats from the recoil lug out; the only change in scope adj. was one MOA; and the rifle ,after approx 200-225 rds. has had no shift, and will still shoot 1/4 to 1/3 MOA if positioned steadily.

I personally think this stock is the "ergonomic equal" of my favorite stock config. which is the McMillan A2. I am able to hold at prone with no stress whatsoever on wrist/forearm. I beleive this is due to the near to verticle grip. And the rear butt config makes for easy positioning of rear bag.

It has an excellent feel and balance. I ordered it in black with the thumb screw attached cheek piece. I fits perfectly. Walt delivered approx 2-3 weeks after I ordered.

I will probably have Hook Boutin bed with Devcon at some point. I beleive in the bedding process, however, like I said, so far, it's been a pleasure shooting with this stock.

I realize some of my comments are subjective, but I agree with Scott(Xring) about the aspects of look/feel/balance, if you will, that are advantages of many of the aftermarket stocks. I hardily recommend giving this stock a try.

I've misplaced Walt's phone no. so if you have it will you give it to me, please. I've been wanting to call him and thank him for his product.

Hope this helps. If you've any more specific questions, please feel free to ask, and I will do my best to answer.
Jeff A. <d1k2l3@aol.com>
Smyrna, Ga, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 23:48:23 (ZULU)

Sarge checks 3, 6, 9, 12 decides to fire:

Stefan - sorry dude TechniCarbon never came through with a stock to evaluate! Someone here did have one but seems they had no action to put in it??? Maybe they can help!
OK guys I need a load for .223 BOLT gun am WAY open to suggestions of any set-up.

Sarge slides back in the hide and waits!

Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Tuesday, March 23, 1999 at 23:51:54 (ZULU)

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