Sorta like the way you can get any experimental result you want if you know what results you want before you start. One of the classics in that game was a Brit PhD who mocked the wierdos by producing a 0.95 correlation (1.0 is perfect) between the sale of oranges and the incidence of violence in Britain. No cause & effect, just coexisting events.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 00:23:42 (ZULU)
You got mail w/o attachment.
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 02:46:10 (ZULU)
Entries still coming for the match. Slots still available also if you are interested.
Bobby Whittington <bwhittington@badlandstactical.net>
Grandfield, Ok, USA - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 04:02:15 (ZULU)
Just to repeat what we've said here before. 20% of the American people care enough about freedom to fight for it. The rest love it but wouldn't have the courage to fight. If they'd only get the hell out of the way so the 20 can take care of business.
I guess I'll put off buying that new Mercedes or Audi... but wait ain't they made in Georgia now?
Lets see. What product am I supposed to boycott? OH yeah, no more French Fries or German Mauser's .. yeah that's it.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 04:04:30 (ZULU)
I think most of the good German and French genes left the mainland Europe for the UK and eventually North America years ago. Whoa nelly!!! Gooch runs for his bunker!!!
By the way "Gooch" is of Nordic/European origin by way of the UK arriving in the US prior to the revolution:-)
Just bored and raising hate and discontent again:-)
Out here
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 04:32:15 (ZULU)
One of my infrequent posts. LOT's of great posts...postulating on the current state of the world. Terrorism on the upsurge and our "human shields" still don't want us to do anything to the perps...
We've gone from the "melting pot" where people worked hard to become Americans and were proud of it to the "salad bowl" there where each should keep his/her nationala identity and not be integrated into our society. The proponents of this theory tell us this can strengthen our national character, etc. Right!
I would propose another theory. Those who come here to be educated, find job's, and taste our freedom's don't want to go home. They don't want to be part of the process, in their own countries, that helped form our great nation
...at a significant price. They are cowards who want a piece of our national pie without having contributed anything except their presence and drain on our economy. I submit that we have become a REFUGEE CAMP. 'nuff said...
On the .223 WSM. You gotta be kidding me! The .22/250 is a notorious barrel burner and this thing has 17% MORE capacity! Yup, that grey you see following your bullet is rifling! Good luck, NOT me. I'll stick .223 Rem, .308, 6.5 X .284. Thankee very much!
Am off my one year probationary service on April 1st. Pay raise, etc. will acompany that event. Hard to believe it's been a year.
UNdude, how's the knee? Hope all is progressing well for you...
'Bout all for now.
Semper Fi,
Wes
P.S. Waiting for my Gardner .338 Lapua to show up...:-)
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 04:39:25 (ZULU)
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 05:19:05 (ZULU)
Most important, though, Joe M.: Words just don't work. Deepest sympathies to her, from all in my house.
All you folks plugging in poll numbers, the phrase I aways hear is "figures lie and liars figure." Anyone can make any poll say anything, depending on wording and results desired. Current media accounts of *anything* show this very clearly.
And while I know my name seems to get some peoples hackles up, I had to risk passing along this link, sent to me from an even more liberal shooter friend. (Yes, they exist. ;) It's pretty well written, and the points it argues are not without merit. Though I know I'll catch H--- for posting it here.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2003/03/07/notes030703.DTL&nl=fix
I'll be in my bunker, awaiting the coming s---storm.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 06:20:26 (ZULU)
Damn well said, Mike.
jc
jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 06:26:53 (ZULU)
The Mercedes plant is in Vance, Alabama. It's near Tuscaloosa, somewhat near Birmingham.
Alabama spends ass loads of money on roads. After traveling in other parts of the country, I think we have the best roads. While the state government likes to piss away money, at least we get to use the roads. The highways tend to be good all through the state.
Honda also has a plant in Alabama. They and Mercedes received millions of dollars worth of tax and land incentives.
BMW has a plant in South Carolina i think. Also, BMW owns Rolls-Royce cars. I still can't believe that happened.
Scope bases/mounts;
Is there anyone who can build quality scope bases/mounts for under a few hundred bucks? The only mount I can find for a 1903 in a B-Square. It'll work but I'd rather have something better. I don't want to drill the top of the receiver.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL- Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 14:49:09 (ZULU)
I guess I will chime in on origins.. the hunter side of the family all came from troup country georgia - frenchman and cherokee indian started it all.
Hmm... frenchman...maybe that's why I tend to sleep with my arms up in theair.... dam! gotta tie them things down tomy side... LOL
later on hawgs....back to werk..
Ken
ken Hunter <ken@hunters.org>
nokesville, va, USofA - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 15:12:22 (ZULU)
HORSESHIT!..........How's dat fo conservative free speech.......For further debate you know where to find me.
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 17:03:09 (ZULU)
Terry Hoover <Thooverusmcv68@aol.com>
Kansas City, Kansas, - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 17:43:15 (ZULU)
"all while remaining safe and cozy in your little hippie-happy tofu-licking gay-friendly S.F. cocoon, all protected and insulated and smug. " describes him pretty well.
"Shrub sends in 300,000 of our youth to blast a cheap thug who is, by every account, no serious threat to the U.S., and never has been, and who had nothing to do with 9/11, and whose ties to terrorism are tenuous at best, all while rabid North Korea happily buys more nuke technology from desperate Pakistan and sells the finished product to the highest bidder. " has a ring of truth. And we will insure that he does not become a threat won't we, and we'll get around to North Korea shortly too won't we?
"The military does not protect my freedom. Our soldiers are not out there right now safeguarding me, or you, or us, from some sort of total, '50s-era, Red Scare-esque dictatorial overthrow of our nation; nor is the military guaranteeing I have the right to write this column any more than it is protecting your right to read it, or to protest the war and speak freely and smoke imported French cigarettes and watch porn and drive really fast. Not anymore, they're not. Not this time. " .... No that was last time. This time we are shipping some ordinance and some world class invasion forces to those who whould return to the 50s era Red Scare-ewque dictorial overthrow of our nation.
"our smirky Enron president and cash-hungry CEO administration, it's never been so flagrant, or insulting, or invidious. "...I Can't argue with that but what has that got to do with the threat from abroad?
"Our soldiers are not protecting our freedoms. They are not preventing more terrorism. They are not guaranteeing continued free speech. Because the only true threat to such freedoms is coming from within. "... and that is mostly comprised of Liberal assholes like you Mark Morford or that Clinton Jerk or that simpleminded pacificist carpenter from Peanut Georgia who fostered all this crap the these rag heads to start with. We should have attacked Iran and stopped all this long ago when they took the hostages.
"until your pathetic little faggy S.F. and granola Berkeley get "hit" and your family and friends are screaming and burning to death and we'll see how you feel then, won't we, when Dubya tried to warn you and where will your hippie crap be then huh? Huh? ",,,How could I top that?
"Saddam is a threat to those same corporate concerns. The U.S. military is right now serving ExxonMobil. And Lockheed Martin. And is protecting, unbeknownst to it, our grip on power brokering in the Middle East. "..... yes and isn't it beautiful! Capitalism in action... whining boy... get used to it!
Oh yes, quotes from Mark Morford San Francisco Gate. who rightfully deserves the credit for such literary genius.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 18:41:18 (ZULU)
It’s too cold to spend any time on the range today so I’ve been down in the office working on my next installment for The Practitioner’s Guide. I’ve been pulling out my references for the work and found another error in the field manuals. The tough part of this is that two manuals contradict each other and I don’t know which is right.
Specifically the topic is range estimation using the naked eye.
In the SOTIC manual in section 4-6 it says;
They (objects) will also appear nearer when the viewer is looking downward from high ground.
In FM23-10, Sniper Training, dtd.17 August 1994 in section VI it says;
Looking downhill, the target appears farther away.
Does anybody have a clue as to which is correct?
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 19:27:23 (ZULU)
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 19:58:11 (ZULU)
When looking down on a person/target that target is going to look shorter than it actually is, thus the impression it is farther away. Exact opposite when looking up at a target, it will appear closer than actually is. It all boils down to the angle at which you are looking at the target.
Bobby Whittington <bwhittington@badlandstactical.net>
Grandfield, OK, USA - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 20:40:38 (ZULU)
So where's Lito lately?
JR what day you guys coming over.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 20:45:11 (ZULU)
Brogers: As always, an interesting analysis. I'm recommending it to the friend who sent me the link.
Mark and Terry: Brevity becomes you.
However, if you cannot think like your enemy, walk among him, know his ways, love his pleasures and despise his torments, understand his side of the story without condescention or awe, you will never defeat your enemy. Not with steel, fire, salt, or gold. Remember that, gentlemen.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 21:40:22 (ZULU)
I had a good 100 yard zero when I went down there, but it still took 10 sighters to get me in the x. Up and down, up and down, wasn't paying attention to the dial. By then I was running out of time and ended up shooting the first match in rapid fire.
The HBV needs 5 minutes less to make the trip than my PSS. This I don't understand. Same ammo, similar guns, different elevations. As usual I couldn't settle down, got in a hurry, rushed my shots, got frustrated, couldn't read the wind, couldn't decipher the mirage, the same old story.
Soaking her tube with Hoppes now. Ahhhhh, the sweet smell of Hoppes wafting through the house! A true aphrodesiac.
Shot with a retired marine chopper pilot, etc. Nice guy with a nice wifey who kept me straight on keeping her hubby's score while my mind was wondering off.
Whooped Bolt, Out!
BTW, Master Cockerham is not deceased or MIA. He cleaned my clock again, nothing new about that.
Bolt <reeldoc@triad.rr.com>
NC, - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 22:10:55 (ZULU)
I too thought the article was horseshit, and the guy who wrote it sounds like a horse's ass.
Take care!
Rob Opp
Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 22:12:57 (ZULU)
By doing these things you will not defeat your enemy......You will become your enemy.......
This is knowing the nature of the foe stretched beyond necessity.....
.....Witness the Civil War......
More Horseshit.
Oh and by the way, Corporate America is established by the consumer, not the military........
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 22:17:17 (ZULU)
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 22:21:52 (ZULU)
Very well said! President Enron Bush? C'mon, that shit took seed and blossomed during Klintons watch. Bush just happened to be around for the harvest.
Treehugger,
I won't dignify that drivel by calling it horseshit. Horseshit has a real value. I trade it for fresh-picked apples and peaches every year.
As to your comment at the end of your post - seems like I heard the same referencing moccasins. To put it into the kind of language that San Franciscans understand - does a straight have to take it up the ass BEFORE he knows that it's gonna hurt?
If your effort was intended to stir the pot around here it was mildly sucessful, but it was but a ripple compared to Winchester vs. Remington, USO vs. Leupold, Steve NATO, or Dean Michalis and his "magic bullets". A little excitement is better than none. At least that's what they tried to tell us during the VN bomb shortage.
It's allll...goood!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 22:34:06 (ZULU)
I was going to chime in with a response to your question, and then I read Master Whittington's response. The first thing that must be regognized is that it only applies to range estimating with the naked eye- as you know, if you are milling the targets vertical dinension, whether up- or downhill you will get the same reading(distance)in both cases and it will be wrong. As a "rule of thumb" if you are actually looking up or down the "line" of a hill, Bobby's comments work well. But, as with all "rules of thumb" there are exceptions. If you remove the "line" formed by the hill (i.e.; you are looking through open space) the rule has limited and variable utility. Look at the age old optical illusion below:
<---->
>----<
Drawing it for yourself on a piece of paper will help, but you know what I'm talking about--The bottom line looks longer. It is the same visual problem in estimating distances up- and downhill. Without the visual cue provided by the LINE of the hill between the observer and target things get a little sketchy.
Those of you that are shooting ASC# 2 will get a real world application of the ups and downs of long range shooting.
Rod
Rod Hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 22:34:50 (ZULU)
Yes, we do venture into "politics" as does every bar, parkbench and bus stop in the USA.
Anyway; Huggerman Some people seem to think that everything the US of A does should involve some kind of holy human rights or foreign aid to some volcano invested island somewhere not to mention some malady spread by some kind of unnatural sex act. It's not all about Democracy it's also about making it work. If we allow our businesses and corporations to be depressed by threat of foreign attack or interests we can control, we'll wind up like the rest of the 3rd world. Starving and conquered. The world needs to know it's our freedom and welfare we are concerned with. Not neccessarily theirs or some other outdated country that floated a statue in awe of our efforts a few decades ago. The French and their statue is clearly an indication of what they think freedom is all about. Monuments by God don't keep us free. Those grunts over there are doing it and always will. The Pen is mighter than the sword they say. Just be damn careful how you challenge a swordsman.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 22:59:13 (ZULU)
This to answer all of the people who claim that the war with Iraq is unjustified and Saddam hasn't bothered us.
First a few points. WHERE does bin Laden get his gear? WHO would have more reason to support Al Queda's attacks on the U.S. ? The inspections are an excuse for the UN. Otherwise, we wouldn't have many allies. But, thank you to the ones we do have.
Or let's look at it this way. Here's plenty of justification. Hussein is a murderous tyrant. I heared someone say that WW2 was the last justified war we fought because we were attacked. We were attacked on Sept. 11th by terrorist.
On Dec. 7th (the liberals will remember Pearl Harbor because of that Baldwin puke, a disgrace to GEN Doolittle) we were attacked by the Japanese Empire. Yet we fought against Hitler and Musolini. Hitler did declare war on the U.S. but the Nazis didn't attack us nor did the Italians. We destroyed a large portion of Italy and Germany even though we really didn't have to fight them. Why did we fight the Axis powers? It wasn't because of the Holocaust (some of the liberals will be confused at this), we(the world) didn't know about the horrors being commited by the Nazis. We only knew that the Jews were being oppressed. We fought the war in Europe and North Africa because the Nazis and Facist Italians were allied with Japan.
The same applies to Hussein and bin Laden. If we only fight bin Laden we leave Hussein unchecked. Just like fighting only Tojo and leaving Hitler. Remember, we didn't really know how bad Hitler was until we entered Germany.
Now, using the same anti-war logic of today, were we wrong to destroy Hitler? If so, tell it to the Holocaust survivors.
Then again, these anti-war hippie wanna-be's believe we were wrong to use atomic bombs on Japan. They would rather have 10 times as many military and civilians die in a conventional invasion.
Sometimes there are no good alternatives, just the lesser of two evils. The Arab world will never love us or even respect us, don't kid yourselves. They are taught to hate Christians and Jews (WE HAVE MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE) and anyone who supports Israel.
Anyone remember the protest that were going on before Gulf War 1? They crawled away in a hurry after it got started and the people gave great support to the operation.
If anyone can prove me wrong, I welcome you do do so.
I'm probably just preaching to the choir, but maybe some liberal anti-war types will get this. Oh, and we are blessed that we have the President we do in this war. If we had Gore, we would have already surrendered.
Dean;
I see the "magic bullet" debate is still in memory.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL- Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 23:00:36 (ZULU)
out
G.W
Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 23:51:43 (ZULU)
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 23:54:30 (ZULU)
The initial part of my earlier post was not directed at the general discussion of what to do, or when, or how, it was directly pointed at the BS comments about blaming various administrations and groups for the current state of affairs. And believe me it is BS. Our system is set up so a president is elected and there is a smooth, orderly transition of power from one person to another. Like it or not, the world situation, and internal politics are SOOOOOO much more complex than ANY one person can control, it is nothing short of silly to play the blame game when it comes to a particular situation. What US president has been presented with four years without an issue or two that he would have preferred had happened on someone else's watch? Every president enters office with the legacy of decades of bad decisions to remedy. After all, it's HISTORY and we can't change it. Some portion of the population (The Majority) elected every leader we have ever had and we continue to exist as a country; through every swing of the pendulum -liberal and conservative. Our system produces BALANCE over time. It is this very fact that contributes to making the US a great country. The framers wanted it this way.
I guess this response was not really directed toward you Bill, as I said we agree.
Now, can we please talk about shooting - even if its BB's
Rod
Rod Hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Monday, March 10, 2003, at 01:22:26 (ZULU)
Jim <broonsma@prodigy.net>
PDX, Or, USA - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 02:13:53 (ZULU)
You have mail, no attachments.
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL- Heart of Dixie, USA - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 02:17:36 (ZULU)
Jody, well said.
Shit I'm tired, damn night shifts. interesting team on tonight, Got a Greek, A German who is Mick Jaggers double, a Yank, who is a Vietnam Vet and me.. think I'll buy em a coffee and we can talk war.
Question,, you guys who have the Badger bottom metal on a Rem 700. How much larger is it than the standard unit and how did you remove the nessecary material from the stock, with a dremmel or actualy machine it out? I've got to fit n bed Jon B's new stock for him this week and i was wondering how anyone else had done it.
Coffee time.. Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 02:21:46 (ZULU)
Here's the questions again
1, How do you send care packages to the troops?
A, What is the address that you put on the packages?
B, Do you get charged normal postage rates or do you get a break
when you send stuff to our military guys?
C, How big can the packages be, weight and size?
2, What do you guys or gals that have been in the military like to get
in care packages?
A, hard candy
B, toilet paper
C, magazines
D, tootpaste
E, chapstick
F, what else, since I haven't been in I don't know what is most
popular
E, A note thanking them for their sacrifice maybe
3, Joe Mahon, since you spend alot of time here and seem to me like a
good family man and a leader who cares about his troops can I send
them to you and you pass them out as needed or is this a bad idea?
4, Any other info that would make this easier would be helpful, I
know everyone likes to get something in the mail and since I'm not
in the military I feel like it's the least I can do.
Tony Burkes <tburkes@sbcglobal.net>
Alvin, Tx, USA - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 02:29:12 (ZULU)
Jim; I think the contour is the same. The stocks will fit and interchange anyway. There is no advantage unless you like the flutted barrels of the VSSF ;models.
Rod; yes, we don't disagree and it's probably just bar talk to even discuss it but satisfying none the less to some of us old farts that they won't take in the Sniper Service anymore. But individual politicians can be responsible. Take for instance the decision to end Sniper diplomacy. Clinton sent in (count em as they roar past) 70 cruise missles after Osama and finally blew a medical plant at probably no particular fault of his own but the hearts and minds aren't won that way. One little matchking would have been Nixon's or JFK's solution to that little problem. Much cheaper and the world would have long forgotten him. Regan had a nice way of handling trouble makers like Kadaffi but he should have sent the sniper instead. Carter's little liberal plan to do away with Sniper diplomacy and signed by Ford (another dumb butt) put us in the shape we're in. You see, back then....If you screwed with us too much the CIA might stop your clock and nobody would know any different. There were many Suicides and strange illnesses attributed to natural causes but the Dictators and Tyrants soon caught on. Castro is a miracle that survived. I know how but that's another story.
You see these are just little electronic Bytes, they don't pain anyone except Maurius, our long suffering archiver. But heck, we can just click click delete and it's all gone. We aren't even ruining spotted owl habitat with logging or anything like that. I'm able to use either hand equally well. A unusual condition of nature but almost anyone can talk about politics and guns at the same time.
BB's do bore me though :) No problem Rod I know where you're coming from. But the site was getting a little stale! Yes, Pete I miss him too. It's not the same. No contr. makes for a dull site.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Monday, March 10, 2003, at 03:47:36 (ZULU)
There is a local group taking up donated items for the local NG/Reserves. They are looking for travel size items that are not normally issued such as: eye drops, skin moisturizer, razors, sun screen, etc. I have donated a few items.
If there isn't any group near you, maybe you can form one. I'd talk to the Red Cross. You could also talk to the local NG/Reserves and donate to them if they are deploying. Or perhaps adopt an active military unit and contact that unit's PAO (public affairs)and they should assist you or at least put you on the right track.
Whatever you send, just make sure it's small, easy to carry, won't spoil, tasteful, and can be used by anyone who gets it.
LATER
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL- Heart of Dixie, USA - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 04:11:19 (ZULU)
Brogers: To be stubborn, yes, the most important thing is the Democracy, and you should think very d--- hard about using any sarcasm when describing the human rights the UN (and the US, on its better days) champions as holy. That's what it's about. The big picture. If you doubt me, read the CONSTITUTION. When it becomes about our corporations and the stability of our economy, it becomes about Plutocracy, and I don't think either of us is wealthy enough to enjoy the final result of that sort of policymaking. Unless maybe you're one of the ones who got out of Enron in time. That being said, I don't think we'd agree much on most things, but on sending in a sniper to do the job PROPERLY the FIRST TIME, we're at 100%.
Mark Smith: Yes, Corporate America was established by the consumer, not the military. No, you won't become your enemy, any more than learning to speak Russian and spending a few years living in Russia will make you a Russian. There is no such thing as too much knowledge.
Jody: Thank you, that was one of the best pieces of argument I've yet seen on this site. Though if you want to know where bin Laden got his gear and training, look no farther than our own CIA. Since his days as mujahidin, he's been restocking in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where the local gunsmiths can reverse-engineer an M4 in six hours and have a perfect copy on the street in eighteen. Even according to the CIA, Iraq has no or negligible links to alQaeda. And if you think the Arab world will never love us, you don't know your history so well as you think. In the 30s, America could do no wrong in that part of the world. Only our blind support of Israel has turned them against us. Hell, you can hardly blame them for that. That being said, your analogy between the US going to war with Hitler and going to war against Iraq was excellent and has a lot of merit.
Rod: Your post was *elegant*! Playing the "blame game", thinking of each administration as separate from the next or the last, is very foolish indeed. But the best part of your post was about returning to talk about shooting.
And to finish that thought, though this request is somewhat out of place here, does anyone have a favorite source for 1920s pistol parts? I've got an Ortgies that needs a new .380 barrel.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Monday, March 10, 2003, at 06:33:11 (ZULU)
I am waiting eagerly for my next GA stick.... the much discussed SC rifle..!
Any word from master Rick?
JagerSpotter, how goes it?
I have a couple of S&B PM IIs coming from the across the pond, it will be interesting to see how they compare to the older one I have and the Leupolds and NSXs. Nothng else seems to look right on the AI rifles.
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 08:17:19 (ZULU)
And next time you're at the lake, give Alexander's horse an apple for me ;))
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 10:49:05 (ZULU)
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 11:54:12 (ZULU)
Gary Kaney <yenak.gl@verizon.net>
N.W., ILL, - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 12:14:22 (ZULU)
Gary Kaney <yenak.gl@verizon.net>
N.W., ILL, - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 12:15:23 (ZULU)
Alexander was 11 years old when he got his first horse named Bucephalus. He was the only one who could tame him. Bucephalus was famous because he took Alexander to the battlefields every time. Alexander's horse Bucephalus died at age 30. Alexander had reached the Punjab in what is now Pakistan and he built a city called Bucaphala in the horse's honor. Now Bucephalus name is in history. By the way Bucephalus means "Ox Head".....great name.
How's that for "off topic"?
Ref:6.5x.284 loads
I'm going to go get some magnum rifle primers and see if I can cut down the extreme spread of my loads. Is there a powder for this case size that will be Varget-Like in its temperature resistance? I hate to use up too much barrel life working up loads. I've been warned that loads that are ok in 40 degrees F will go overpressure in 80 or 90 degree weather. So what do I do? Wait until summer?
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 12:22:08 (ZULU)
Bull Shit that Arabs have ever loved America. They were indeed afraid of TR and his foreign policies but the infidel has always and will continue to be the boogey man over there. Our "Blind support" of Israel has kept a Race from extinction in that part of the world. That seems pro human rights to me. But what would I know of such things?
Oh yeah, who pays for the Military. Is that in the constitution
To Lurkers and occasional posters and closet Liberals:
Hey, you don't come in here and throw a sucker punch and then change the subject if anyone's thinkin like that, I ain't takin prisioners.
Kevin' you might try this new Bench Rest Powder from the Varget producers, they claim it's more Temp Stable. I could tell little difference yet in the .308 class but something tells me it would work better in the .260 class.
The .260 I tried was a bit much as a Varmint round. It will sure as hell take out a coyote or PD but it's a little overkill. The 260-284 is likewise a bit much but it works I'm told as a long range cartridge so there might be a niche in there somewhere.
John are you talking bullets or bull he's shooting?
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Monday, March 10, 2003, at 13:42:49 (ZULU)
Once upon a time in a nice little forest, there lived an orphaned bunny and an orphaned snake. By a surprising coincidence, both were blind from birth.
One day, the bunny was hopping through the forest, and the snake was slithering through the forest, when the bunny tripped over the snake and fell down. This, of course, knocked the snake about quite a bit.
"Oh, my," said the bunny, "I'm terribly sorry. I didn't mean to hurt you. I've been blind since birth, so, I can't see where I'm going. In fact, since I'm also an orphan, I don't even know what I am."
"It's quite OK," replied the snake. "Actually, my story is much the same as yours. I, too, have been blind since birth, and also never knew my mother. Tell you what, maybe I could slither all over you, and work out what you are, so at least you'll have that going for you."
"Oh, that would be wonderful" replied the bunny. So the snake slithered all over the bunny, and said, "Well, you're covered with soft fur; you have really long ears; your nose twitches; and you have a soft cottony tail. I'd say that you must be a bunny rabbit."
"Oh, thank you! Thank you," cried the bunny, in obvious excitement. The bunny suggested to the snake, "Maybe I could feel you all over with my paw, and help you the same way that you've helped me."
So the bunny felt the snake all over, and remarked, "Well, you're smooth slimy and slippery, and you have a forked tongue, no backbone, and no balls.
I'd say you are definitely French".
Workman <cworkman@esiofva.com>
Va Beach, VA, - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 14:02:24 (ZULU)
By no means fitting your criteria of "in between", IMHO, every serious varmint shooter should have at least one .223, and if possible a Hornet..Both allow lots of shooting as componants are cheap and barrel life is long for either. Hunting varmints with the Hornet is just that. Sort of like being a kid again. Just my .02 worth.
outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Safely ensconced in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 14:48:40 (ZULU)
Kevin don't waste your time with a Fag Mag. Bottom line is 300wm, RL22, Fed Case, Fed215m primer, MK190. It works every time.
TonyY <ayackowski@pershing.com>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 15:19:29 (ZULU)
Kevin,
H4831SC is an Extreme powder like Varget, and being slower burning than the H4350 you're using now, is better suited to that long barreled 6.5x.284 you got. Just MHO.
Don
Don K. <ussr@clarityconnect.com>
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 15:25:20 (ZULU)
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Monday, March 10, 2003, at 15:29:38 (ZULU)
rabbit n snake, sounds like a good name for a pub to me,, laughed my ass off.
22 Hornet, a mate of mine shoots a lot of roe deer with it, close range only.
What you need is one of each.
A hornet for plinking and for the kids to use( or a 17 watsername hornady thing)
a 223 for general use,
you can debate the 22.250, its marginaly better than a 223 and doesn't quite match the 220swift, sod it, get a 233 and a 220swift.
Then you want a 243, so your boy can deer hunt and you can varmint in the wind, and a 260, just because you can. Then damn it does get windy, and i'd like a pronghorn rifle, hmm i'll have a 25-06, and a 270 (just cos Jack whatshisname had one), got to have a fag mag, cos everyone wants one, and bugger, gotta have 308, cos everybodys got one, and a 300wm, cos its faster, then a 338 win mag, maybe see an elk one day...and a 338 lap mag, dunno how far that elk will be?? now i've got all these guns,, theres still something missing,,, summot bigger,, yeah i always fancied one of them half inch things, what was it now, 50 BMG, whats BMG stand for anyway, Bugger Me what a Gun, yeah thats right..
Or maybe just buy a 450 marlin and a 30-06 for everything over 150m away,, pointless having a 308, it'll only sit in the safe( but my boy likes to shoot is so i'll keep it, and i can always rent it to hunters for 20 a day plus ammo..
Just thinking out loud and trying to talk my self out of the need for more guns and a bigger bloody gun safe, I'm failing miserably, now i want summot that looks like an M16... just cos i can still have one..
pete
Peter Lincoln <anke_pete@t-online.de>
D - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 15:54:54 (ZULU)
Any of the Hodgdon 'Extreme' series of powders would be less temperature sensitive than comparable powders of similar burning rates from other manufacturers. As to your fagmag, it seems to me that your bore to case capacity is close to that of my .270W, so I have to agree with the suggestion of H4831SC - I get 3250Fps. MV with a 130gr NBT from a 24" bbl.
Hell, and all along I've been thinking that Bucephalus was a sailboat!
Treehugger,
If the Arab world loved us in the 1930's it was only because we liberated them from the Ottoman Empire (the Turks) at the conclusion of WWI. Remember that Palestine is an artificial State created by the British (as a result of above) and was occupied while the rest of the world tried to figure out what to do with it. That, of course, was rudely interrupted by the Nazis startind WWII.
Now speaking of the Nazis, the Arab world fell in love with fugitive Nazis in the late 1940's and attempted to use them to build and train their military. Yes, we harbored Nazi fugitives also, but they were OUR Nazis. You know - my vicious Pitbull is OK, and I keep him in a very secure Kennel, but their Pitbull is also vicious and is allowed to roam the streets at will - NOT OK!
After the Nazis found out that they could not live in an Islamic world and stay German (they went to South America), the Arab world had a long and fruitful love affair with the Soviet Union, who supplied them with most of the military equipment and the training doctrine that they still use today. Where do you think that the Kalashnikovs, RPG's, MiG's, and tanks came from - the USA?
The Arab world are merely common whores, in love with whichever pimp is keeping them high at the moment! So f**k 'em.
BTW, the reference to moccasins was an attempt to draw a parallel between the old adage attributed to the American Indian and the 'know your enemy' of your post. "You can't know a man 'til you waly a mile in his moccasins". Ugh!
And why should we not support the State of Isreal? I can't remember Nazis and Soviet Communists ever being their invited guests! The Israeli's have been our only constant friends and allies in the Mid-East since 1948.
Shooting note!!,
Considering ANY .22 centerfire for varmints, if you don't have an accurate .223 (Mini-14's need not apply) you owe it to yourself to get one. Learn it, use it, THEN maybe fill in around it!
Scope and mount question,
Very recently received an e-mail from CDNN advertising 4x24 Hensoldt STANAG scopes with .223 reticle, also Blits
STANAG mounts, both supposedly US SF issue, for sale. I know that Hensoldt is a German brand, but know nothing about this particular model, nor do I know anything about a Blits mount. Yes, I do know what STANAG means;-)) Can anybody out there give me a heads up on this stuff? How about Master Rick?
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 17:20:42 (ZULU)
John: Was that quip about shooting and writing directed at me or at that ding-dong Mark Morford? I doubt Morford would know which end of the gun to point at his foot.
Kevin: Yes, ox- or bull-headed, depending on the translation. Have you heard the story of how Bucephalus was tamed?
Alan: Thanks for clarification on the moccasins quip. Thought that might have been it.
Alan and Brogers: I suggest you look more closely at the 'tween wars, non-military history. Both Arabs and Persians offered us friendship on several occasions. We threw it away, choosing instead to undermine several attempts at democratic governments because those nascent governments did not feel our expolitation of their oil was in their best interests. For some reason, they no longer trust us. Who'd have thought it?
Brogers: 1) I tossed Morford's article out for the amusement value and to get people thinking. If you look at my later postings, you will find that I refered the person who sent me that link to the replies posted here. 2) I suggest you take poli-sci 101. Democracy and capitalism are two different animals, often found in the same habitat but not inextricably linked. One does not necessarily fall because the other does. 4) Who pays for the military? Don't get too self-rightous and defensive of our corporations. We all pay taxes, even liberals. 5) Are you calling me two-faced about being a liberal who shoots? Saying that because I hold a different opinion than you that I can't talk guns? Nice to get a graphic example of your support for the 1st Amendment as well as the 2nd. 6) If you don't like it that I change the subject because some people on a shooting site want to talk shooting instead of the politics we're currently farting at each other, you have my email address to continue the rant of your choice.
That being said, I repost my question: Does anyone have a favorite source for 1920s pistol parts? I have an Ortgies in need of a new .380 barrel.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Monday, March 10, 2003, at 19:31:54 (ZULU)
Steve, you gonna burn powder in the morning?
The Howa keeps geting better and better......more on that later, I gotta go to roll call and get ready to make the city safe for democracy and Krispy Kreme donuts.
Charles S. Hunt <dpms223@aol.com>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 20:15:31 (ZULU)
Go with H4831SC for your fagmag. That is what I use and shot it all year around without any trouble. I used 53 to 54 grains depending on the case lot (I have to different lots of Norma brass)with the 140AMAX and a Federal primer. This load puts me right at 2980 to 3000fps. out of a 26" barrel.
I tried other powders and they shot well also but went with the extreme powder so I would not have to worry about temp. I have also found that the AMAXs are a tad faster with the same load than the 142s for some reason.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Monday, March 10, 2003, at 20:26:38 (ZULU)
A major portion of a snipers job is the gathering of intelligence. We're not at all like Tom Berringer;-) You have no idea how many mysteries of contemporary history could be solved or explained here should some folks divulge what they've sworn to keep secret!
The Persians, and the Arab world, were wooed both by the US and the Soviets after WWII. Besides oil, the Soviets had a large geopolitical interest in keeping countries sharing their borders in their sphere of influence.Our interests dictated that we keep them out. Pahlavi was our dictator, and it was in our interest to ensure that he was in power rather than the Soviets Communist puppets. It wasn't until radical Islamic fundamentalism gained a stronghold that Pahlavi was booted out. There was no "noble" Iranian faction just waiting for the US to come calling. It was the Monarchy vs. the Politbureau!
European colonialism had a whole lot more effect on the Arab countries after WWII than the US ever had. Great Britain saw the light in the post-war Mid-East by divesting themselves of their former colonies a quickly as it was practical for them to do so. Not only did the US push very hard for the old colonial powers to get out of the empire business, but Britain, for one, was financially bankrupt due to the cost of fighting WWII and couldn't even afford them any longer. France, on the other hand, dreamed of returning to its pre-war colonial glory, and demanded our help in regaining their holdings both in the Arab lands and in French-Indochina (later Vietnam). Ho Chi Minh had made overtures to the French in Paris to allow him to form a friendly government in VN. They turned him down flat - can you say rubber? Can you spell Michelin? Ho then approached the US, where his idea was welcomed with enthusiasm. When France beacme aware of this plan, they threatened to withold membership in NATO, and wanted to deny their airspace to their other "allies" in Europe. Can you visualize the Berlin Blockade?
During those days it was more important for our interests to insure a strong united front in Western Europe and we naturally played the hand that was dealt us. The first law of survival dictates that you take care of your own first. SO WHY DO ALL OF THE LIBERALS, LEFTISTS, SOCIALISTS, CRYBABIES, AND SELF-HATING RESIDENTS OF THIS GREAT COUNTRY INSIST THAT WE SACRIFICE OUR OWN AND SUPPORT THE PEOPLE THAT REPEATEDLY BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS THEM?
If anybody believes this "Noble Muslim" bullshit that passes for the truth in our mainstream Universities they must also believe that Fidel Castro is the saviour of the Cubans, and that Salvador Allende was really helping the Chilean people.
I could go on and on - but I won't!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 20:47:37 (ZULU)
Marius
Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
- Monday, March 10, 2003, at 21:14:26 (ZULU)
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Monday, March 10, 2003, at 21:44:02 (ZULU)
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Monday, March 10, 2003, at 21:55:28 (ZULU)
Just a bit of advice, get back to discussing rifles or snipey related topics. And aye, I'm singlin you out for your own good..
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Monday, March 10, 2003, at 22:37:56 (ZULU)
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Monday, March 10, 2003, at 22:51:00 (ZULU)
5) Are you calling me two-faced about being a liberal who shoots? Saying that because I hold a different opinion than you that I can't talk guns? Nice to get a graphic example of your support for the 1st Amendment as well as the 2nd. 6) If you don't like it that I change the subject because some people on a shooting site want to talk shooting instead of the politics we're currently farting at each other, you have my email address to continue the rant of your choice.
*None of the above ever happened. Those are your own words. Let me make up my own insults please.
And by the way, I don't get into off line rants. If it's not worth argueing in public it ain't worth my time.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Monday, March 10, 2003, at 22:59:01 (ZULU)
I have never heared of that pistol. It probably isn't common, therefore parts may be hard to find.
Numrich or Brownells may have them. Possibly Sarco may know of a supplier for it.
The only regime in the mid-east that ever really liked us was the Shah of Iran. Because we supported his imperialist ambitions (Iranians are Persians and there is a line of bad blood with them and the Arabs)and the Shah loved the American dollar(nobody loves us for free). We liked him because he sold us cheap oil and it give us an ally in the region that was at the USSR's doorstep. We could have stepped in and prevented the overthrow and averted the hostage crisis had we not been so Carterized (no pun intended),just like giving up the Panama Canal.
I realize that we propped up the Houdinies, but bin Laden is getting resupplied from somewhere. I don't think the Russian or Chinese governments are selling to him directly. North Korea I'd believe is, as well as Iran, Syria, Iraq, and the PLO. They are not leaving any apparent evidence for obvious reasons.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled program. (We can discuss this over e-mail if you wish.)
Kenton knobs;
I'm considering a Kenton elevation knob. Does anyone have anything to comment about it? Seems like a good idea.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL- Heart of Dixie, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 00:05:33 (ZULU)
Alan, Alan, Alan- Stop with the labels. Their use greatly diminishes any message you hope to impart. You paint with a brush that is far too wide. If you were an artist, it could only be of the "modern" variety. I can see the titles now, "green spot on yellow background"; " blue on white"; "white on blue". Need I go on? The WORLD and this country are not that easily categorized. Your social and political theories are just that- "YOURS". Please feel free to hold on to them, but spare us.
As far as "SELF-HATING RESIDENTS OF THIS GREAT COUNTRY" go you must be the captain of the team. Your comments SHIT on every principal that makes this country great. Think about the word "nuance"- go look it up. Open your mind, read a different newspaper, read a few books, and stop listening to Rush.
Now I know that there will be the obligatory comments about "closet liberal", save it. There must be a website out there that is divoted to discussing political theory and world affairs - go find it.
Every one of you needs to take a look at the name of this website.
Is it any surprise why so many former regulars are not posting anymore? Is it? When was the last time that there was a thread that had any relevance and substance? I give up.
Bill- If not BB's how 'bout the futuristic .17 RUM? Anyting Please
Rod
Rod Hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 00:28:27 (ZULU)
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 01:02:05 (ZULU)
We have a set as a prize for ASC# 2. One competitor will be very happy.
Rod
Rod Hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 01:29:35 (ZULU)
Rod: Impressed by accounts of .17, but not yet ready to buy one. Seems too purpose specific (long-range varminting) to me. I like versatility. Want to hear more, though.
A gentleman told me I was on thin ice, so I'm shutting up about history and politics on thread. Sorry Brogers.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 01:38:09 (ZULU)
S M E A C (I don't belive this has changed) complete mission; return Unscathed.
If you don't know the meaning of "S M E A C" Ask any old infantry salt they will tell you.
Just making your "ONE VOTE" count
Semper FI
Bomac <biker3@Earthlink.net>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 02:26:27 (ZULU)
Watch yourself with H4831SC. I have had great luck with it, but my standard load works great until it hits about 100 on the range, then it spatters the primer cup and I've pieced two primers. That's with 50.5gr over a 9 1/2M.
I was getting great MV with it as well. 50.5gr was netting me 2980 on a hot day (80* plus) but the new bottle is running over 150fps slower. I bumped the load up to 51.6gr and I'm still only at 2835. My standard 50.5 is only ruinning 2750fps. I think either I got a dud lot, or they slowed the powder down to burn closer to what H4831 burns at. I should have suspected something when my 1K come up went from 24 to 28moa when I switched bottles, but it was still shooting so damn good,, I fingured the hell with it.
As it is, RL22 is running faster than the H4831SC by a long shot. I'm getting 2935fps with 51.6gr RL22 and a 215M primer. No pressure at 72*F. We'll see when it hits 95*....
No free lunch with this caliber I'm affraid, but certainly worth the effort. If only all the powders were as consistant lot to lot as Varget....
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Next 1K mathc at AEDC, March 16th. , WCRC's HSTM 3 gun tactical match has been rescheduled for May 10,11. If you're not locked down due to Mothersday,, come on out and shoot., Get with me for details and drive directions. - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 03:04:58 (ZULU)
She said she realizes that her husband died "among his family." She also feels that she now has 5 big brothers...and she pretends to be brave--but you can see the pain in her eyes. She is 22.
Guys, sending packages over there is easy. Pick your favorite deployed division, then go to it's website.
http://www.army.mil/A-Z.htm is a list of all army webpages.
Pick a Battalion, link over, pick a company, and link over. Get the First Sergeant's name (or just write "First Sergeant" or Commander on the name line--but it may not make it thru). Next lines are:
company/ battalion
Divison
APO Army Europe 09889 (Kuwait)
It is strongly advised to use a name on the address line...some (not all) webpages still have that info. Enclose a note asking them to distribute the goodies to thier soldiers or Marines. Hint: Copenhagen in the cardboard cans (stateside package) is always well recieved!!!! The plastic cans sold overseas tastes like formaldahyde. heheh. Old paperbacks, jerky, sunflower seeds, and nuts are always in demand. Homemade cookies are cool, but these days the terror threat makes that unwise unless you know them personally already. Stay with store packaged stuff for "any soldier" type mail. A personal note of thanks to read aloud to the platoon--well, that is priceless. That alone will do wonders for morale. They are watching CNN in the tents at the staging areas. And they are watching protest coverage. A word of support will undo all that BS and raise morale.
I think that is an outstanding contribution to this endeavor. More than some may understand. Do it, guys. Once I go, I will post my address and get stuff out too. But I have some AT seminars to hit first. Grin.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
Columbia, South Carolina, - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 03:52:52 (ZULU)
Joe, tough job but you're a good man! 22 is a bad time to go through something like that, geees.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 04:17:14 (ZULU)
Brogers: Some other time for certain. *grin!* Redhawk? You lost me.
Joe: Good man! 22? Ah cricky. That's way too young.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 04:33:08 (ZULU)
Peace rally in Indy saturday. Bad scene...But I was reminded of a similar protest by the loonies at Devens in December 1990 (Bush's war for oil--same damn signs still). It seems that some forty of the protesters' autos parked along the woodline across from the main gate were missing both back wheels at the conclusion of their little chant-session. I imagine they got pretty far down the Nashua river...
They claim that it is the "American way" to debate issues. Has anyone tried to debate these fools? A debate implies reasoned argument, not name calling--right?
Now I will tell you that my troops are affected by this. It bums them out that a few get played on the news leaving the impression that "protests" are the norm. It is a drag on morale. And they deny this, but I will tell you that it has a negative effect on those in uniform. There is a time and a place for dissent--and once the troops have deployed--it is no longer the time and place. It is time to close ranks and if you don't like it--start planning for the next election. To do otherwise is to provide aid and comfort to the enemy--and THAT IS UN-AMERICAN. Yes, they have a first ammendment right to say whatever--but some things said are just un-Amaerican--and no rationalization will change that.
Say? Has anyone heard from Jane Fonda lately? Now that would be interesting to hear her take...
Care packages shopping suggestions:
No porn. It'll get a kid into big-time SOFA trouble.
TP is bulky, and easy to get--use the cubes for something else.
Get a classroom full of thank-yous from a bunch of second-graders
We like to know you, so return address the box so we can say thanks!
AA batts are always scarce.
Send a disposable camera and be surprised by amazing photos someday
Gold bond powder
A properly folded US Flag will fly from the antenae of the lead vehicles to clebrate victory...
Sunblock and lip balm
No alcohol...damn!
writing paper for newbies who forget such stuff, envelopes too.
If you got them, send old hair clippers (some units still have hand-ops--but all units have a generator)
Cheap non-fadish sunglasses (black lens/ frames)
cutter or off bugspray. The valley has fleas and skeeters!
Chewing gum--sugary kid-stuff kind
Green Duct tape and electrical tape
Jolly Ranchers
dried fruit
summer sausage
Mags (sports, motorcycle, truckin' etc...)
playing cards
pringles
etc.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 04:53:23 (ZULU)
Thanks for the off-topic on Alexander. That wasn't first-hand knowledge, was it?
Joe
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 05:04:44 (ZULU)
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 05:08:30 (ZULU)
Just who in the fuck do you think you are? It looks like you've taken it upon yourself to become the content moderator of this site, as well as to invite me to leave and go somewhere else to post my comments. A newbie opens up a can of worms and you pronounce from your perch, high on bullshit mountain, what you deem acceptable to be seen on this site.
Don't you ever even attempt to order me, or anyone else on this sight, to conform to your list of accepted behaviors! If the Council tells me to go away I will certainly respect their wishes, because this is their ballgame, not yours. If you disagree with anything I say you have all the right in the world to disagree, and to do it in public.
You've been talking Constitution out of the right side of your mouth while repression of opposing thoughts comes out of the left. People come and go for different reasons and to blame only our posts on political positions is one hell of a leap of faith on your part. I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do, don't let your inflated sense of self importance get in my way! We may find out if you're really the "GatorBird" that some call you. I'm telling you - DON'T FUCK WITH ME! Let the children play, teacher. Or they just might eat you! Like ol' 'yote bait, I'm not inclined to take this off site. Do it in front of God and everybody, or don't do it at all!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 05:35:53 (ZULU)
Rod,
I think the threads have been more political lately because there is a sense of anxiety over getting this campaign started. It's what's on everyone's minds.
I'm here in Jock-land, they are great folk, don't get me wrong, I'd lie down in traffic for the lot, but they're not Yanks, are they. So a lot of the time, I'm just poppin in to breathe a little bit of home, keeps me grounded..
Should have the 'Mystery Machine' van loaded and pointed towards IWA in about 4 hours. Imagine I'll have plenty of snipey/equipment related topics and an off topic story or two when I get back. Will be a good time. Youse guys have a good one as well. Maybe by then we'll be kickin some ass..
Pete, Jon, we'll see ya there..
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Nuremburg or Bust!!, - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 06:07:28 (ZULU)
I'm going to take some time off work this noon and drive up to the city and get some reloading supplies. I've got to decide between RL22 and H4831SC for powder and I guess I'll get some magnum rifle primers. 215M I figure.
Could my wide variation in velocities be from using standard large rifle primers? We'll see I guess.
I was thinking of a great marketing tool and new product for the powder companies. You know how the breakfast cereal makers pack twelve little boxes of a selection of their products in one pack. What if the powder manufacturers did something like that with 1/4 pound samples of their various powders. It sure makes sense to me.
I got the rest of my Lapua brass yesterday so I'm good-to-go for the season as soon as I figure out what the load is going to be.
Ref: Alexander's Horse
Joe, that's not first hand knowledge on my part. I was too young at the time to remember Alexander but my parents told me about him. ;-)
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 09:57:47 (ZULU)
i posted that i was looking to buy a heavy barreled gun, do to them being more accurate at longer ranges. the reply said that the heavy barrel was only more accurate due to it being slower to heat build up in multiple shots, and that a sporter barrel is just as accurate on "cold shot" performance. (long range varmint application)
Besides heat build up, isnt a heavy barell just plain stiffer, and more resistant to vibration than a sporter barrel, and therefore more inherently accurate?
Question 2: Heavy artillery - what do they use to set off the charge on the big aretillery pieces, that are breech loaded with bags of powder? ie what do they use for a primer? (a navy 15" gun for instance)
thanks
Rob
rob rat <rratvask@tricountyi.net>
central, pa, usa - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 11:40:51 (ZULU)
Gary Kaney <yenak.gl@verizon.net>
N.W., ILL, - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 11:45:48 (ZULU)
It snowed again here in the Alleghenies last night, the horses are fed, and I've got a pot of coffee on, so, I have all day..Lets start with the ideal SWS for LE, followed by your opinions on calling Eastern 'yotes, how you feel about Glocks/1911s, belly guns, long vs. short barrels, 308 vs 300WM, or Mk4M3s. Or, you pick the subject! I'm just a dumb ole country boy and politics and pissing matches make my head hurt..
As to the "challenge" of liking to load the Hornet, or anything else:::
I hate to load ammo and have always used the anology of cutting firewood; If you still enjoy it you haven't probably HAD to do enough of it. Dillons ease the pain, but not by much.
Lighten up guys
outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Safely ensconced in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 13:40:55 (ZULU)
Are there any that really stand out above the rest?...or more importantly, any brand or model I should avoid?
Not interested in alot of fancy features, just accuracy and reliability really. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
JB
John Bechtell <ajbechtell@yahoo.com>
historic Gettysburg, PA, - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 13:50:04 (ZULU)
You can buy their stand kit for $50 or you can go out and try to find some photographer's light stands cheap.
PJC <mywifeiscrazy2@yahoo.com>
upstate, sc, US of A - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 13:57:53 (ZULU)
John, this was for you RE: Chronographs.
The lightstands are used to hold the rail that you put the sky screens on.
PJC <mywifeiscrazy2@yahoo.com>
upstate, sc, US of A - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 14:01:57 (ZULU)
Ok so I called em Jerks! It was only because that was the mildest word I could think of so don't put me down as a homophobe. I'm an "old" homophobe so get it right you Liberal Jerks. That's a joke Jerks! Seriously.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 14:20:24 (ZULU)
Anyone ever notice how much hatred and bile gets spewed by the red diaper doper babies? If I ever spoke publicly about their patron saint, Former President Clinton, I would be condemned loudly.
It really saddens me to realize that communism is alive and well here in the US, since anything the left disagrees with is obviously fueled by "corporate" ie, captilaist interest. That's okay, If President Bush decided to invade NK tomorrow, the left would rejoice and support him because NK is a greater threat than Saddam? Right, they lost congress, they are fixin', for you Texicans, to lose the power of juidicial activism, and the only response is shrill, hateful, unthinking vitriol spewed at a man who truly has the best interest of the nation in mind.
Rant off, council feel free to delete if the politics is getting out of hand.
Steve Burris
Steve Burris <skylar.burris@gte.net>
NOVA, VA, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 14:25:54 (ZULU)
The war on terrorism, troops deployed in harms way, aggressive US foreign policy...these are things I strive to understand because it is my job as a US citizen....recently, all have also impacted my life directly.
I have my doubts about the situation in the gulf... I voted for GB jr and I am hoping he has this situation figured out... I have friends in the 82nd who I would very much like to see come home. I'm not sure what we are doing is the right thing... I'm absolutely certain that doing nothing is the wrong thing....The US needs to respond to the terror threat, it's just a question of how and where....
Bottom line on this... I think this discussion does belong on a site dedicated to the use and understanding of deadly force.
As for the loss of contributors.....
I'm an expert on a subject not related to this site... I spend some of my time sharing with those that do not yet know what I know. If I did it for recognition, ego stroking, etc, I would have quit long ago... I do it because I wish there was someone there when I was learning the basics...someone that could have pushed me that much further. I figure the folks that left are either busy doing other work (in the sand perhaps), or they just didn't appreciate the rewards associated with openly sharing knowledge with those less accomplished in their field of expertise. (trust me... no loss in the long term... complacency ultimately kills every one of those "experts", continuous learning requires you give back at a certain level of accomplishment...)
Treehugger - This is a somewhat conservative site... if you pick one subject, express YOUR opinion, support YOUR opinion and keep it civil, I believe you will have a constructive exchange. To date, your actions have been received by me as less constructive than most.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 14:43:04 (ZULU)
A very sad Sarge!
Out
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 15:23:34 (ZULU)
Now these wonderful, been pissed on by the US, folks have a saying "Women are for breading and boys are for fun" That to me is just plain sick. I say take Michael Jackson with you on a vacation over there if you find so much fault with the US.
WE OWE THE ARAB WORLD JACK SHIT!
Rod, your a good man, sober up and get off Alans back. Many of us regulars have been busy getting ready for the Arab World.
Undude/Mike
Mike Miller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 15:36:16 (ZULU)
Barron Moreland <bmoreland@sc.rr.com>
Cayce, SC, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 16:00:44 (ZULU)
Treehugger - hope you have thick skin....
Now actual rifle stuff: Hogs - I've been busy in the background helping out the folks at Iron Brigade Armory. I'm no where near a fully qualified gun builder - especially a Chandler Sniper. I help out where I can - part time at best. Talk about an eye for detail. There's a reason those riffles aren't cheap. There's all kinds of other gun related work in play as well.
Anyhow - we have a handful of extra McMillan stocks that we're looking to move. Selling stocks direct alll the time is not the intent here ... just wanting to move those extras. Click on my name or go to:
http://www.snipercountry.net/forsale/Display_Message.asp?Message=0000006443.txt
Other stuff - Stateside folks: if you don't have your heart in America - then get your ass out!
Even tho I don't post much - I visit when I can and try to keep an eye on snipercountry and make sure it's on the air. Been at it since - uh - well not sure (getting as old as Sarge and can't remember), but anyhow... you all take care out there.
take care hogs.... Semper Fi
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <ken@hunters.org>
Nokesville, Va, USofA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 16:01:39 (ZULU)
Ladies and Gents, the fact of the matter is that life is hard. This is set in stone and will not change, no matter what you try and do. The sooner you accept this, the sooner life will get easier(note: not easy)
We in the US have been very soft, for quite a while. Now it's time to be hard again. It's going to take lots of killing, and it's going to look like we're clubbing baby seals. It's going to LOOK bad. However, in the long term, it's going to save lives. Not just American lives, which are the only lives I care about, but even enemy lives. By killing a few people now, we won't have to kill a shitload of people later. We will have to kill, that's just how it is. The liberals and others living in fantasy land need to get it through their thick skulls that weakness only invites attack. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS!!!!!!
Folks, those in the US live in the greatest nation on earth. We are and will be assailed by all sides. They're wrong, we are right. Never believe anything else. Loyalty is key. All this meaningless shit about right and wrong might be worth something if there was some higher authority to appeal to, but there isn't. God isn't going to get personally involved with this one. We have to settle this one for ourselves. Do you want the world to look like America, or look like Saudia Arabia or some other 3rd world shithole? If you have not been to a 3rd world shithole, you don't get a vote because you don't know what you're voting on. That's just a fact. Sorry, but caring about people's feelings is a luxury I don't have anymore. Just because a lot of people believe something stupid does not make it true. The only problem with democracy is that it relies on educated people who make rational decisions, something which we increasingly lack. God bless. Semper Fidelis...Ken M
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 16:06:20 (ZULU)
Thanks All
Pat
Pat <patncindy@iglide.net>
Idaho, - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 16:56:13 (ZULU)
I thought the article author was a friend/acquaintence of Huggies and wondered about his skills. I understand now that it was forwarded to him from a fellow shooter. You both are gifted orators, but the comment was aimed at the Mark fellow.
Kevin,
At one of the .50 cal. matches last year a competitor kept his ammo boxes in a sealed cooler right next to him on the line. He added a cold pak from the med kit. It was 95 plus on the grass. His ammo was actually frosting as he loaded. You might want to try the military CCI primers. I've tried 'em in the M14 and they are reasonably consistant. Not as much as 210M's but close.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 17:02:46 (ZULU)
Nice to see ya poppin' in mang. As usual,, to the point and on target.
Have ya had a chance to fire that new 280AI yet? I'm still kickin' around the 284win w/156 VLD's or a 7-300WSM with 180's. I'm also curious as to what you think you'll get for usable barrel life with the AI....
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 17:04:25 (ZULU)
Sarge, E-mail inbound regarding old unit.
Medic Jim: If it wasn't for the "old-timers" who share knowledge, most new guys would fall by the wayside, washout or never survive. That is a fact in the real world, military service and life in general. It is appreciated even when no feedback is received, and like you stated the rewards to the instructor are not always obvious. But I can also understand the frustration of attempting to share knowledge with folks who constantly question the validity or always second guess the facts of someone else experience or results. That happens a lot here. Some query is necessary, to validate results. But I am pretty sure those who are not contributing anymore are still here, just viewing and watching the show!
I thank every contributor for their contribution to this site. I have learned much here, and I use this site as a reference daily!
Les <LesMartin338@aol.com>
Canton, CT, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 17:11:05 (ZULU)
As to LE we can not do the research for you, legally that is.
Undude
Mike Miller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 17:13:33 (ZULU)
Thanks. I don't want to get any of my LEO friends in trouble so I won't even ask. I am trying to follow-up on contacts in the town where he grew-up to find out about the "early years" but am struggling with this felony conviction thing. I believe it was in Phoenix AZ so do I just call the local PD for information or is there a web site with court information I can search in, or go to the DA department? I am sorry but I am completely and totally new to this. Not something I really want to get good at.
Pat
Pat <patncindy@iglide.net>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 17:32:24 (ZULU)
Ken M. I have been to third werld shit holes and, well, I like them, some of them. They can be real fun ;) I would not want the US of A to become that way. The American folks have not become soft. Well alot have but it is due to the Profs at our higher education facilities spouting off thier own hippie peace movement crap. And not having a mandatory 2 year hitch with the Big Green Fightin Machine. These folks can not have an infomed opinon cause they have not experience crap on thier own. They were told this and told that by a bunch of freakin hippie types. If I were king of America we would have no enemies and a lot more unoccupied territory due to my use of the Neutron bomb. Damn good thing I aint in charge, huh? Or is it?
I have been busy showing a dog so aint been burning powder. My boy won (Winners Dog) Saterday at the show in San Antonio. The judge was the same person who judged the sporting group at the most recent Westminster Show. I'm happy as a puppy with two peckers.
On the new WSM's I don't see the advantage to the 223 WSM but haven't seen the use of big bullets in it as of yet so can not real come to any conclussions on it. The 243 WSM may be the way to go for a playing stick. I guess time will tell if you bums would go buy one and wring it out for us poor bums we would have results faster.
Dirty Steve, Out
Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, US of A - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 17:45:51 (ZULU)
Great idea on the 'Kellogs' powder pack! It got me thinking. How about a bullet assortment also? Like ten or twenty rounds each of several bullets in .308, .223, .264, etc. This would be real handy, especially with bullets like Sierra's specialty line. I can't afford to spend over seventy bucks for a five hundred box just to see if the 77gr. SMK (for example) will shoot in one of my rifles!
Chris,
A 7-.300WSM? Don't they already make the 7WSM? Or did I read your post wrong?
Chronographs,
I have to give a strong second to the 35P. Tried the rest and had various problems, bought the Oehler, now have the best. May I suggest the optional 4ft. long mounting rail.
Media habits,
FYI, I don't listen to Rush, read only the local newspaper, and never watch the news on network tv. All that crap makes me a candidate for an anger management class! And I can direct my anger all by my self, thank you;-)
Mike Miller,
Very well said! I can't seem to get the point across without getting crude.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 17:52:11 (ZULU)
Jim Wise <jim5656@hotmail.com>
Frostproof, Fl, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 18:01:27 (ZULU)
Oh yes, I've had some primer problems with VARGET where air space is envolved. The mag primers are worth a try, that's what fixed mine.
Alan; your approach is appreciated by the folk like me. Crude is in style if that's what you call it.
Mike hows the knee?
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 18:11:35 (ZULU)
I'm glad to see that you're posting again - seriously! You should understand my position, however, as to healthy debate vs. personal attacks.
When someone posts here about a subject that (generic) you think is lacking in facts and/or logic, and you would like to correct him or question his information, by all means go at it! The problem that I have is when someone questions the right of another to post on any subject he wishes to.
When you say that a particular subject doesn't belong on this site, and that the author should find a different site for his post you are inviting him to leave the site, which can only be done by the Council. This is why the first thing that comes into my mind when someone criticizes one of my off topic posts is to inform the complainant that I will continue to post whatever I choose, and that if they don't like it they can just scroll by, or they can leave the Roster if it gets too bad, but I, personally do not have the right or authority to ask, or demand, that they leave the site!
If one were to go way back in the archives, that person might be very surprised at the varied off topic content and the large amount of it. We've discussed and argued the merits of trucks and autos, food (and even how to spell it), women, wives, girlfriends, sisters, green Pintos and cookies, education, current events, movies and tv programs, whiskey, beer, foreign countries, jokes, tall tales, occupations, personal injuries and tradgedies, dogs, cats, sheep, politics, the Constitution, history, and how the chicks dig Sain.
I question the motives of anyone who complains that any given post is off topic and shouldn't appear on the Roster, without complaining about every single post not having to do with the Sniper. Perhaps our complainant has an extra thin area of skin pertaining to that particular subject. Maybe that person wants to "test the water" by responding to a poster whom they think may be an easy mark. It's been repeated here many times that if you don't have a thick skin maybe you shouldn't be here. Know thine enemy should probably be right up there.
As to taking it personal, I don't respond in kind. Throw a barb at me, and I'll probably return an SMK. Attempt to chastize me for not agreeing with you, without facts and good reason, and my response will not be very genteel, to say the least.
And yes, I did take a previous post of yours as an attempt at censorship of Roster content. Go back and read it again if you have to. The inhabitants of our world are not at all a shy bunch! They'll speak up when necessary.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 18:56:32 (ZULU)
you read me correctly, regarding the 7-300WSM. My rational for necking down a 300WSM Parant case is two fold.
1. Norma now makes 300WSM brass, which is superior to the winchetser brass.
2. The neck on the 7WSM case is shorter than the 300/270 vaiants. In an attempt to have a long neck, allowing both additional case capacity AND more burn in the case (I said supposedly, didn't I??) I'll neck the 300WSM brass down and get both.
Now,, I HATE neck turning, but I figure a quick reame after I run it over a 283 mandrel will solve any doughnut problemos... so,, I can have the best of all worlds. Get my chamber reamer spec'd out and built off a loaded round and walla....
Now,, All I need to do is decide whether or not I can stand the recoil of the 180. If I'm not going to use 178 to 180gr Pills, I might as well take a couple hundred of the several hundred 6.5x284 cases I have with expanded pockets, Size the rim back down, reame the pockets and neck them up to 284 with a K&M. Then, load a dumby and send it off to Dave kiff to work his majic. Then I get NO neck turning,,, which is as Martha Stewert says, "is a good thing." :))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 19:36:39 (ZULU)
One more thing. Do not recommend more education to me! Only because it pisses me off!
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 19:37:06 (ZULU)
But why not strive to keep it civil? "Don't f**k with me?" Is that a response intended to stimulate good debate? Tactfully sell you side of the story without the insults and you will be perceived the better man!
I think our earlier run-in was based on my poor wording of a sentence that read and interpreted differently than I meant. We discussed that. Water under the bridge.
Les
Les <LesMartin338@aol.com>
Canton, CT, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 19:56:33 (ZULU)
I'm back and I've got a pound of Reloader 22, 1,000 Federal 215M primers and a 8# jug of Varget. My plan is to load 51 grains of RL22 with my 139 grain Scenars lit by a 215M. I sure hope this leads to a conclusion. I hate load development. It seems like such a waste of time and resources. If I hit the lotto I'm going to give away my reloading gear and buy Black Hills by the pallet.
Ref: Ammunition in a Cooler
If I ever tried that ammo in a cooler trick Andy would punk-slap me and drag me to the car. The boy was raised on the writings of Jeff Cooper, Elmer Keith, the Holy Bible and the Ranger Handbook. I've created a "Junior Lord of Discipline". He's quick to say, "Dad, that's not practical." or "Jeeez Dad, that A2 stock is a friggin' canoe paddle." I started to complain about the cold wet weather at Storm Mountain once and he scowled at me and said, "Heck Dad, this here is Ranger weather. If it ain't rainin' you ain't trainin'." I love that boy but he does wear on me at times. ;-)
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 20:12:10 (ZULU)
When an "expert's" sensibilities reach that point that they are simply too wonderful to tolerate the masses, they are on the downward slide into self absorbtion... I've seen it before. When it involves a life or death skill, men die.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 20:20:52 (ZULU)
Thanks for the update on the H4831SC. I had went through a couple of pound cans and most of an 8lb keg but it was all pretty consistant.
I will need to buy another keg here shortly and will keep that in mind. I never had any trouble with mine as far as temp. went (So far anyway) but will watch it.
Kevin..
Never had trouble with the Fed standard primers for my 6.5x284. I had a very low ES and SD with my loads. I know yotebait has had good luck with the magnum primers when he has run into problems so it may be worth a look too.
Alan & Rob..
You guys play nice with one another!! A lot of us don't post a lot because theres not much shooting related things to talk about and some of us don't like to argue politics an religion. I think its just that time of year!! We shouldn't bite each other, were all on the same side here.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 20:34:28 (ZULU)
51.3gr RL22 was getting me 3015fps even with 215M's and 142SMK's in a 30" Border. SD was 9 day one, and 14 day two. MV dropped to 3000fps with a 30 degree temp drop.(day 2)
51.3 gives me 2915 in a 26" Rock barrel. Same SD's, same drop in MV with temp.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 20:37:13 (ZULU)
Ken: Skin's plenty thick. I think that's why Brogers, Alan, and Undude/Mike want to turn it into a fireplace rug. <grin> Thanks for asking, though.
John: Yes, that article was forwarded to me, but no, not by a shooter. They got an earful when I sent them the link to SC, too!
MedicJim: In response to your comment that my opinions have been unconstructive...
Just so you all know, I feel bad about starting such a ruckus when I originally posted that link for the purposes of humor. Yes, I love getting people thinking, and yes, I love jerking chains, but that article was so over the top it struck me as a parody of far-left extremism. When people replied to it seriously, I replied seriously to them, badly underestimating the level of rancour. Mea culpa.
Yes, this is typically a fairly conservative site; I knew this when I signed on. I came here for information on shooting and stayed for the atmosphere of candor. You all know I disagree with many of you about the finer points of politics, international policy, sociology, etc. But I don't come in here with my mind closed to opinions, and while I usually continue to disagree with you after the dust settles, I do remember what you said and it does broaden my perspective. I hope that you will accord me the same respect. I might not be able to put "SF" at the end of my post, but I think my own time in the Middle East, and that I'm third generation sandwalker, albeit all civilians, may make up for the fact I can only put "FF/EMT" after my name.
My apologies for the discontent I have cast among you. While I will not stray from my own ideological path merely to meet your wishes, I will attempt to tread more gently. If for no other reason than the subsequent fallout detracts from the offerings of shooting wisdom.
Speaking of which, my wife inherited a Remington 721, but the last four or five inches of the barrel are bent. I'm sure someone out there has an opinion on the best replacement. Thoughts, anyone?
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 21:04:54 (ZULU)
"Speaking of which, my wife inherited a Remington 721, but the last four or five inches of the barrel are bent. I'm sure someone out there has an opinion on the best replacement. Thoughts, anyone?"
You're best bet is to convince her that she needs to send it to GA Precision for a "Rebuild", and get yourself a nice rifle made up....
simple huh... ;)))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 21:16:08 (ZULU)
danny mull <drm8194@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 21:51:52 (ZULU)
I'm an active duty Navy Chief who is a frequent reader and seldom poster, but have gotten off my arse to cheer up an incredible trainining facillity. It has been my privilege and honor to have spent the last month at the BLACKWATER training center. The ability of their instructors to ramp up individuals into real time fight scenarios is amazing. They are both highly professional and dedicated to the task at hand. If anyone has even considered attending on of their training sessions I would say do not hesitate. They are a first rate facillity and treat all students on a person to person basis. I have witnessed members of most of the SPECOP/SOCOM groups, every government alphabet soup group, down to the novice in the weeks spent training their and no students were left to want. For that, I thank them and wish to publicly commend them for a "JOB WELL DONE". Their is a link to their website under hot links on this web page and it would behove all who are able to attend regardless of level of knowledge.
That said: on the matter of politics on this site. The hardest thing I have ever had to do was listen to someone bash America in the 17 yrs I have served. As long as they don't become active " burn the flag and I'll kick your ass then get locked up for violating your rights" it's sucks, but I provided your freedom along with every other service member/cop/firefighter/medic in this country. Personally however Undude said it best:
WE OWE THE ARAB WORLD JACK SHIT!
Mike has always had a way with words.
Chief out
Chief <dwightc11@msn.com>
USN, Va, USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 22:46:39 (ZULU)
Then....... "John: Yes, that article was forwarded to me, but no, not by a shooter. They got an earful when I sent them the link to SC, too!"..........
Then......" Just so you all know, I feel bad about starting such a ruckus when I originally posted that link for the purposes of humor. Yes, I love getting people thinking, and yes, I love jerking chains, but that article was so over the top it struck me as a parody of far-left extremism. When people replied to it seriously, I replied seriously to them, badly underestimating the level of rancour."
After......"It's pretty well written, and the points it argues are not without merit. Though I know I'll catch H--- for posting it here."
One just doesn't know whom to believe.....
At the risk of being crude, personal, and repetitous......
MORE HORSESHIT
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 23:01:41 (ZULU)
I wonder what else you got wrong?
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 23:55:37 (ZULU)
Dusty <dhamilton69@aol.com>
Monroe, LA, US of A - Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 23:59:44 (ZULU)
MedicJim: The difficulty with words is that each sees something different. I apologize if I misrepresented your comment in my reply. And to reply to another good example of that...
Mark: The person who sent me that link is not so avid as any of us here. Yes, they go out to the range every now and then, but not, I imagine, as any of us do. I would guess that we all have friends like this, who could be described for convenience as one thing, but on consideration don't merit the dedication implied by that description. You illustrate well the hazzards of generalities and labels, at my expense. That's fine. Whatever.
Yes, the article does have some points of merit, and yes, it is well written. It is also completely over the top and pretty funny. I should have known better than to complicate the issue by thinking that people might look at it and say: "yeah, but... not like that!". As for knowing I'd catch h---, 1) I knew some people would go balistic and probably lump me in with Morford, I was just not prepared for quite the level of that response; 2) I'd say I was pretty right on, wouldn't you?
I shouldn't bother with explanations, seeing as you --and undoubtedly others-- have already decided that I'm full of s---, but your points deserved addressing. View me as you like, I won't bother trying to hold an untenable position. None of us here is out to convert anyone, we're all just tossing our two cents in.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 00:18:59 (ZULU)
http://www.marstar.ca/ortpps.htm
Click on my name to jump to the above URL
rod regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com>
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 00:42:41 (ZULU)
Treehugger, please post at least your first or last name like the rest of us. It always makes me wonder about people's intentions when they hide behind a handle.
Bolt <reeldoc@triad.rr.com>
NC, - Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 00:47:13 (ZULU)
"I came here for information on shooting and stayed for the atmosphere of candor."
I don't get to monitor or post much lately, but from what I have read, I call BS. You signed on with a log in name guaranteed to raise hackles with a bunch of hardheaded, conservative mil and LE types. Then post stuff that is, to put it politely, crap. This is not rocket science, I think you signed on to stir the pot. I am not going to rush to judgement, just wanted to share my thoughts. Treehugger you are NOT contributing to the cause. At this point, you smell like a troll to me. I would love to play but I am way too busy. I may be back and involved in another coupkle of months. In the meantime, any of you hawgs want to comment, please drop me an email.
Recent posts.....
Politics, well, there is a line there. However, as shooters, we are not going to get away from it. As many active duty and part time warriors as there are on this board, geopolitics is going to play a part, as is plain old war talk. It would be nice if some of the old heads would get a little more tolerant and work back in with some shooting topics. In three plus years of reading and occasional posting, I have about doubled my ability and knowledge. The postings, subjects, and conversations that led to that are not being posted anymore.
"Speaking of which, my wife inherited a Remington 721, but the last four or five inches of the barrel are bent. I'm sure someone out there has an opinion on the best replacement. Thoughts, anyone?"
Check the archives and links section before you ask your question, most answers to questions like "who makes the best barrel?" are in there. That is not meant to discourage interaction. Put it this way. You don't see me wasting my time trying to make friends at Democratic Underground. If that makes any sense.
Just my humble opinion. Sorry for the non-shooting post. Please return to you normal programming!
Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
WI, USA - Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 00:55:37 (ZULU)
Bolt: I see a lot of people here with nothing but handles, or names so tweaked to be convenient that they become little more than handles. And I did post my full name when I first started posting. A couple people even used that to do a websearch on me. Very polite, yes? Though they turned up not much more than the name of my boat, that felt suspiciously like intimidation --but I'll let that go. For those who missed it the first time, my offline name is Alexander Forbes. If anyone out there wants to know anything further, I'd prefer a direct question over a websearch. While I appreciate a sniper's ability to gather intelligence, on the web, from those I consider friendly (if ferocious) intellectual sparring partners, I revere respect a lot more than sneakiness.
Sorry Alan and Mark, I don't mean to get snitty, but that ticked me off a bit --on a personal rather than political level.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 01:15:23 (ZULU)
The next issue and this one chaps my hide is this feeling the US needs to pay for all the worlds food and welfare needs. I dont see it like that. I see helping someone up but not providing food for years to come. Sorry we cant afford to pay for everything and if that makes the Arab World hate us so be it.
This feeling of "I should be given a hand out" grabs me by the short hairs and pisses me off. This whole idea that money should be given to anyone that askes is crap of the stinky Afghanistan street variety. The other day I am limping along, on my broken leg, knee torn up, waiting for surgery(I am 43 years old, been shot, cut and have so much metal in me I am surprized when the metal detector does not go off at the airport. Nick nammed the "Bionic Man" by my troops I could qualify for a handicapped parking permit and have bene offered three medical retirements) when this 18 yard old strapping youth approaches and begs for money. I just look at him and he pleads he needs help because he is disabled. The kid is 5'8" and 240lbs. He needs to work his fat ass off and make some money. I say not today and he gets pissed off, yells a few choice words at me, like I owed it to him. Well lacking the desire to make a living also left him lacking the desire to take this old man on so he ran away. Giving to those that demand does not work. Botton line is we wont make friends with the Arab World by giving in.
On my Knee, I go in 19 March for the rebuild. Hopefully I can be up and running in a few months.
Dwight/Chief, good to hear from you. Hope all is well in your world. I am supposed to go to Pendelton and Coronado once healed. I will look you up, if you are not off defending us.
Mike/Undude
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 02:13:57 (ZULU)
Tony
Tony Burkes <tburkes@sbcglobal.net>
Alvin, Tx, USA - Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 02:20:38 (ZULU)
As for the next issue that chaps your hide, I agree in general, and it is only the many admonitions I've had to shut the hell up that keep me from leaping into that detail-rich fray. Ohhhhh... but I sure want to! <grin>
Geoff: Whatever, but I will go read the archives.
And out of respect to Bolt...
Alex/Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 03:02:43 (ZULU)