Gonna rebarrel my PSS  gimmie input   pretty set on #8 contour

Shilen  or Douglas.

On stainless or chrome moly, what are the advantages vs disadvantages other than price.  Gonna be painted camo so looks don't matter.

Also, should I stay with 1/10 twist rate or go to 1/12?  My department issues federal gold medal match 168grn.  will the 1/12 barrel shoot the 168grn match kings???  I know it will shoot the 175grns. I can get them to buy the 175s if my gun will shoot them.

I shure am glad all this stuff is tax deductable!!!

Jim Anderson <OCSO245@HOTMAIL.COM>
OKC, OK, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 00:07:11 (ZULU)

As I am shure you guys noticed I got the twist rate thing bass ackwards.   O well shit happens

Jim Anderson <OCSO245@HOTMAIL.COM>
OKC, OK, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 00:21:36 (ZULU)

Seems to be a thread on "big game/dangerous game" rifles. I'll give you my .02 worth. For dangerous game the Double Rifle excels...the reason is the second fast follow up shot, if needed. Chances are you'll never get more than 2 shots anyway. Doubles, however, are very expensive. I believe the larger Brit houses will build you one starting around $30K and moving up from there.

Bolt action dangerous game rifles are considerabley cheaper. Saw a beautiful cased Dumoulin, in .416 Rigby, build on a square bridge magnum Mauser...what a beaut! ONLY $9,995.00.

You can get a non custom Winchester .458 or .375 for under $1K...

Also, note that most game laws in Africa require a power floor of .375 H&H Magnum. Something to be said for standard calibers. You can find ammo for them there.

Me? I'm building a .284 Winchester Mannlicher "stalking rifle". That, with my .35 Whelan Improved will do me fine for whatever I want to hunt! Not planning Africa anytime soon!

All for now,

Wes

Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 00:35:51 (ZULU)

Get a Rock 1:11 and shoot whatever the %@$# you want out of it.

Out

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 00:45:46 (ZULU)

Got an opportunity to give the new FN SP a pretty good workout this past weekend. All shooting was bipod prone at 200 and 500 yards. The gun is now a proven sub-MOA shooter at those ranges off of a bipod, and it acts as if it wants to shoot much, much better. Load is a very prosaic Varget/168MK/Lapua/210M deal, just thrown together, basicaly. I got several groups on paper that were sub-MOA, and several of those were with the first three into a fraction of that, as in, sub-.2 MOA at 500 yards, with the remaining pair traling off to one side or the other.  This is not stringing due to heat, I suspect, but rather my inability to build and maintain a shooting position that was up to the job, and the trigger.

The trigger first: a RAGING, SCREAMING piece of sh*t. I mean, I have worked with Winchester triggers before, but nothing like this. I had the adjusting nuts backed off until the spring was rattling around loose on the jackscrew and it still gave a measured 4.25 lbs, and it felt like twice that, especialy when prone and trying to put that FOURTH shot into .2 MOA. I set the overtravel correctly and sear engaugement and creep per se is not excessive, realy. I think they have the sear/sear bent geometry fundamentaly screwed, which means I have to go in and stone a new geometric arrangement into the parts, which I do not forsee as being either fun or easy.  So, what do I do? Hock the farm and buy a Jewell? Or save half the money and get a Timney?  Or break out my Magical Pink Stones and start cutting?  Yeah, I know: a bunch of Jewell cultists are we... :-)

Second, I have done a reasonable bit of rifle shooting over the years, but rather little off of a bipod, and this thing is kicking my ass. I have a very simple Harris non-swivelable anything, in the next-to-shortest hight. EVERYTHING makes a difference with these things (a resounding "Well, duh!" being the reply from the Duty Roster regulars). I was on my cheap-ass old cloth shooting mat, the bipod legs resting on the rubber at the rear, with the bulk of me sorta' hanging off the rear of the mat and in the dirt. Under the butt I built up a pile of small, leather sandbags that are inteded as elbow rests for the benchrest crowd. I then tried a variety of ways to interface the bags and the rifles butt, including every method of interposing ones hand between the gun and the bags one can imagine: grasping between various fingers, a balled fist, squeezing the top bag, and many more. They all did differently from one another, but I never found any one of them to be fully satisfactory. Also, when I would stick my hand in between the butt and the top bag, I could realy feel the butt of the rifle slamming down suprisingly hard as the rifle rotated its muzzle up under recoil. This strikes me as being a fundamentaly difficult variable to control for. It also strikes me as being perhaps a function of the height of the bipod. What about going to the shorter "benchrest" bipod? How about that gee whiz wonderful monopod thingie that somebody is (was?) marketing? I could make one of those out of alumuminum, if it is unavailable in commercial form. Other suggestions to get .2 MOA off of a bipod? I suspect the freakin' rifle will do it, or come reasonably close. Now, can I?

-Tom

Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, US of Freakin' A - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 01:00:21 (ZULU)

      I say again, I only hope and pray the day will come when I can shoot as well as some of you.  Tom, I know almost nothing about this long range rifle stuff compared to other hogs , but if I had a rifle and the ability to  shoot several one inch, three shot groups at 500 yards ,all in one day, I would be happy as a clam. Perhaps it's time for a reality check .

Rod  

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 01:39:18 (ZULU)

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention: the stock. This stock is a vastly better arrangement than that found on the Remington 700PSS, except it is harder to shoot well prone. The aforementioned stability issues off of the bipod at longer ranges are considerably reduced when shooting the heavier, bulkier, and downright less ergonomic Remington version of the HS Precision stock. The Remington stock is a awkward b*tch in any position but prone. The FN stock is a dream when lashing up in Mike Miller's Wonder Sling and shooting sitting, for instance, or any number of other positions that are not prone. But the 700PSS does feel more planted and stable prone. Just though y'all might like to know that. I will stick with the FN stock, personaly.

Which gets us back to the old conundrum with HS Precison stock: the bedding arrangement. With the Remington, it seems to be impractical to machine the bedding block to match the diameter of the Remington front reciever ring (which, I am told, can vary a good bit) and then dont have much to keep the action from rotating a bit in the stock under torque. I didnt trust this arrangement and, faced with a substantial wandering zero problem on that gun,ended up bedding the thing in MarineTex, with full contact between the bedding and the sides of the skinny little recoiil lug to prevent torquing. Seemed to solve the problem. Just fine.

Now, with the Winchester/FN action, I have another problem. The action is flat-bottomed, of course, and torquing is not going to be a problem. It sits snug as a bug on top of a square shoulder.  Not much to go wrong there. But, What I do not see is much to keep the action from moving latteraly, sliding from side to side. I wonder if some of my lateral dispersion is from this. I might mill some of the aluminum out of this deal and glass it too, who knows.

Incidentaly, if you have ever thought about buying one of the Houge overmoulded stocks, I would give it a hard look first. A friend bought one for a Ruuu(cough), I mean a Ruuuu(ack)...oh, well, a Model 77, one of those, and the thing has a full 1/4 inch lateral play in it when dropped into that Houge stock. My suggestion was to just glass the first 1" or so of the barrel at the chamber and use that surface to locate the action laterally, and leave the rest of the bedding alone...which, now that I think about it, might be a solution for my problem. Comments?

And, I happen to have in my posesion a new catalog for the new FN Precison Rifle line, which includes some thoroughly interesting products (aint' it great having to drive by the factory on the way to work each day? :-)  Included are models using the McMillan A3 and A4 stocks, as well as the Sub-Minute Solutions adjustable comb stock. Barrel lengths are 20' and 24' (some of the 20' guns being fluted), and the chamberings listed focus on .308 and .300 WSM, the latter of which becomes very, very interesting indeed when combined with a chrome-lined barrel. What do you think?  5,000 rounds before the throat gives it up? A miracle. I hear that .300 Win Mag is in development as well.

Oh, yes, the catalog lists all of the other wierdness they sell as well, like the Hecate II and the Ultima Ratio and other pricey crapola, but who cares? If somebody can deliver a Winchester-actioned, chrome-lined, hammer-forged, McMillan-stocked, <1/2 MOA, bomb-proof tactical rifle for anywhere NEAR $1,000, then what the hell else is there? I'll buy TWO Jewell triggers for the gun and still feel like I got a bargain. If they can deliver it at not much over a grand (and this is what I hear, though pricing has not formally been set yet), then they did us BIG, BIG favor by ditching the HS stock and upgrading, and charging us more. I kinda wish I had held out, actually. But then, I will probably be getting one of those 20", fluted Sub-Mintue Solutions-stocked guns anyway...

Oh, and one last note: I did say that I didnt get any particularly fantastic groups on paper, but I failed to mention that I got some phenominal performance on steel. As in, fist-sized groups right in the middle of the 6" square head of a steel IPSC target at 500 yards, and with boring regularity. This is not a package to be trifled with.

Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, South CackyLacky, US of Freakin' A - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 02:00:19 (ZULU)

Tom Simpsom...

"Ah, Well Duh!"

(Sorry, I jus' couldn't help it ;)... the devil you made me do it, it ain't my fault.

First, go to the little 6" BR bipod (w/swivel)... it will get you lower, and more in line with the stock.  And get a little bean bag so you can settle the butt real low, but tight on the bag.

The gun (if properly held [Sniper prone]) won't twist... it will shoot straight, and fall back in line, so you should see the target when it settles.  The stock is one of the best around (the "Marksman!").

Also, Glass it in something like "Steel bed"... no need to mill it out, they bed easily (more than I can say about some of the women critters I have been seeing :((   I have three of these stocks, and all they need is to have the front of the action (mag well to lug) bedded... a piece of cake!

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
- Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 02:26:21 (ZULU)

I realy do not know just what I have here as of yet, either in terms of my own skills or the rifle's capabilities. The first three going  into 1" may well have been a fluke. It will certainly take several more groups at a  minimum to prove whether or not it was. However, I could get .6 MOA (or about 3 to 3.5 inches) out of the  700 PSS on a fairly regular basis, so I know I am about that good, and that first three  out of the FN leads me to think that it wants to shoot better than the Remington did and that the last two taking the group out to 1 MOA was not reflective of the way the gun wants to shoot.  The way it was behaving leads me to belive that it was not anything fundamentaly flaky about the gun that was causing the last two to go awry. No classic stringing due to heat, for instance, or at least not so it would appear. And if it wants to shoot sub 1/2 MOA, then I want to be able to shoot it as close to its capabilities as I can. The reality check comes into play when I run out of gun or run out of ability, not before.  :-)  In the meantime, I have a number of gun-related variables that need to be worked out, like the World Wresling Federaton-spec trigger and some further analysis of the bedding, and some refinements of technique to work on as well.

-Tom

Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, The other, non-northerly, Carolina, United States of Norte Amerciano - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 02:31:04 (ZULU)

I really, really like the McHale stock.  I have been playing with it for the past couple of days and this thing is awesome.  I am surprised that it isn't more popular in the tactical rifle arena.  Probably because it is a fairly old design and people seem to want the latest and the greatest.  That's the only thing I can come up with.  I can't wait to get this thing to the range for a workout.  Should be able to get a range trip in the next couple of weeks.  We'll see.

Dang, I had another question that has totally slipped my mind.  CRS!!!!

Semper Fi

Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
Reston, VA, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 02:42:24 (ZULU)

All I can say is Damn! Bolt out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
Giant pollecule city, NC, - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 03:54:10 (ZULU)

Tom, the Hogue stock is a bloody good stock, but it needs to be the one with the ally bedding block cos the one without is to floppy in the forend for any bipod work,( I know Ive got one) other wise the stock is real good, I emailed Hogue to see if they could do the overmolding in green or some cammo combination, apparently thats a no go. I particularly like the shape of the stock, the pistol grip is about the right dimentions, I like the HS stocks, but all the standard ones are much to short in the pistol grip,I have one of their thumbhole sporters on a mountain rifle and it is very nice to use,from any position, and I like the McMillan Gen purpose hunting stock, its about the same dimentions in the pistol grip as the Hogue.

Ive treid the HS vertical grip tactical, and the Mc Millan A2, but find them to bulky, great for prone, but to bulky to stalk with, I agree with Paul on his thoughts on the McHale, damn good alround stock, we had some Parker Hale M85's that made up numbers of the AI L96A1's as we got rid of the L42's, I liked the rifle and I liked the stock. Ive got an AICS on a Remington at the moment, and it is a good allround stock, but for the money it is anoying to have to sort out a few niggley things that shouldn't be there,

I bed all the alloy bedding block stocks with either acra glass or steel bed, so the action and stock then fit together and the action isn't just clamped in a "V".

Right now I want a Hogue over molded stock foir my 450 Marlin, but they don't do one, damn.

Pete

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 04:17:01 (ZULU)

      Rod

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 04:29:26 (ZULU)

I'll be getting one of the Sub Minute Solution 20" guns to test in the next weekor so.

They look good.  I think you will see Remington unassing some more stock options due to them.

Out here

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 04:36:12 (ZULU)

Gizmo <ssn581@teleport.com>
Beavercreek, OR, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 04:53:07 (ZULU)

 Need a longer range. I'm trying to join a private range by the dork won't call me back. Maybe cause its a black powder Club. Why do they need a 500 yds range? Bit far for those smoke poles. Guess I'll the the next closest private range.

Some one said George G. was featured in "Gun World". Looked all over and couldn't find it on the magazine racks :(  Guess more looking is in order.

Dirty Steve, Out.

Did I win yet?

Steve Dickerson <ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 05:59:36 (ZULU)

I have heard commentary about the long throat on the Rem 700P, presumably due to liability issues.  Any way to use the magazine, or is it single load only for accurate handloads (or do my measurements seem out of line)?

Thanks as always for your insights.

William M. <elmerfudd3000@yahoo.com>
Birmingham, AL, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 06:29:21 (ZULU)

William M. <elmerfudd3000@yahoo.com>
Birmingham, AL, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 06:33:48 (ZULU)

The Rem throat is long (as most 308s are) not so much for liability, but to allow for the 200 grain round nosed bullet.  It requires a long throat to chamber.

Just find a load that is 2.80" and enjoy it.

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
- Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 07:14:27 (ZULU)

Having a great time at Stone Bay/Hathcock Range.

Wish you all could be here......na..na..na..na..na.....

If it gets any better I'm going to split open.

Today will be another 14 hours of target/trigger pullin'.

out

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 09:43:32 (ZULU)

A local guy by the name of Dan is making a very solid and versatile bag for an excellent price.  I decided to pick one up and try it out.  Well, after 2 weeks of use, I found that this is by far the best bag I've personally used.  

Right now, he is only making them in black but after talking with him, I found out that he will be making them in tan, forest green, OD, and woodland camo.  

The stitching is very nice and solid and he used YKK zippers through out.  The bags are made in the USA with USA materials.  I'll be using the bag I have for a weekend hike coming up soon.  I think it will work out well and I'll let you guys know how it works.

You can see some pics of the bags at his site:

http://www.blackbagsllc.com

BCR#226 <michaels226@hotmail.com>
Sterling , Va, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 15:45:22 (ZULU)

TonyY <ayackowski@pershing.com>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 16:00:31 (ZULU)

Marty ?

Thanks,

Brian

brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 16:00:47 (ZULU)

It has held up well to some hard use.

Jim Mitchell <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 16:30:00 (ZULU)

I'll try that tonight and take a jog.

Mike

BCR#226 <michaels226@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 17:01:39 (ZULU)

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
- Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 17:31:09 (ZULU)

Bill Moore <lmalterna@aol.com>
Goodview, VA, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 18:04:39 (ZULU)

Was that the "Lost Battalion" movie with Rick Schroeder?  I saw that one on A&E (I believe it was one of their productions)when it came out in the fall and was amazed.  Put it this way, my girlfriend was just as riveted as I was (and no, not just because of that "hot Ricky Schroeder"...the bastard), and she normally hates war movies.  Definitely one of the best war movies I've seen. I'll probably buy it from their website.

Later,

Rich

Rich S. <RS1441@aol.com>
Bal'mer, - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 18:49:15 (ZULU)

Didn't want to go on and on but, alot of folks get wrapped up in macho big cartridge crap and wound alot of critters, which is not good. One well paced shot is all it should ever take. aint nothig gone more than 30 yrds when shot with my 270.

Steve Dickerson <ginger@devtex.net>
SanAntonio, Tejas, US of A - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 19:39:57 (ZULU)

<can't stop laughing>

Apparently, many others besides us have been offered ways to buy all of the "Rocks" of their dreams, and ammo to go with it, the bullion to hire poor indigenous people [like fellow shooters not so lucky to get 25% of Mguwamba's fortune] to clean all their bores [but certainly not using JB paste <heh>] etc.

John

- - -

"Nigeria launches Web site to target e-mail scam"

A Nigerian government Web site targets e-mail fraud scams that have been sweeping the world.

http://computerworld.com/nlt/1%2C3590%2CNAV47_STO69562_NLTAM%2C00.html

John <john@leveron.com>
U.S.A. - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 19:51:10 (ZULU)

Just came accross on interesing article about "Canadian Snipers Operate with Cool but Deadly Efficiency in Afghan Battle."

Here is the link: http://www.sftt.org/article03192002b.html

Or the article itself:

Canadian Press

Monday, March 18, 2002

BAGRAM, Afghanistan (CP) - Canada's snipers have ducked mortars and dodged bullets in eastern Afghanistan in the last two weeks. They were nearly shot to pieces by a U.S. Apache helicopter gunship - it stopped firing just in the nick of time.

They are said to have the highest number of confirmed kills of any regular army unit in the battle, though they deny it. And three of them, along with three U.S. special forces soldiers, also rescued a company of the American 101st Airborne Division that was pinned down by enemy fire on the first day of Operation Anaconda - the mission to find and destroy al-Qaida and Taliban forces in the rugged region south of Gardez.

In an interview on a castle-shaped rock from which al-Qaida fighters gave them days of misery earlier this month, one of two detachments of Canada's snipers described an arduous first week of battle. Because of the job they do, the three youthful but cool professional sharpshooters want to be identified only by pseudonyms with their real ages, ranks and home towns.

They landed at first light on March 2, on the first U.S. helicopter flying in with troops from the fabled Screaming Eagles. The troops started taking small-arms fire at the top of the first ridge they hit.

The Americans were pinned down but the three snipers and three special forces troops found a way out. They moved forward and sought high ground.

From there, they began picking off al-Qaida fighters, who were shooting from behind rock piles. A one-hour firefight ensued.

"As soon as we got rid of one guy, another one would come up, and another one," said Master Cpl. Alex, a multi-talented 30-year-old raised in Ottawa and Halifax.

Soon after that battle ended, another began.

Troops from the 101st were able to move into blocking positions while the six engaged a determined enemy.

"The six of us suppressed fire and neutralized the enemy - they were either dead or they ran away," said Alex. "Most of them were killed, as far as we could see."

The snipers were in their element - free-ranging, aggressive, taking the initiative.

But their talent for concealment nearly cost them their lives at the muzzles of an Apache helicopter that came in, guns blazing, chasing an enemy target just beyond them.

Lying prone in their British desert fatigues with padded elbows, front torsos and legs, they were almost invisible against the dry valley floor.

They heard the sound, looked back, saw the dirt spitting up in two rows - and rolled.

The pilot must have seen them at the last moment because the strafing stopped less than a metre from their position.

Their biggest concern, it seemed, was that their coveted .50-calibre sniper rifles almost got hit. "I don't know how the .50 didn't get hit," said Alex. "We laughed after that. You gotta."

For the sake of speed, they were moving without their 50-kilogram rucksacks and spare ammunition. But then they were running low and needed special optics equipment.

Under fire, Cpl. Ed, 25, of Manuels outside St. John's, Nfld., ran the 100 metres back down one side of the ridge and up the other - and then back again with their gear in tow.

They were 3,500 metres high. At such altitudes, the air was gaspingly thin even at a brisk walk. Although extremely fit, Ed was nearly passing out after the two-way sprint, with AK-47 rounds nipping at his heels.

But Ed, who's developed an uncanny Sean Connery imitation, didn't stop there.

Ed grabbed his M-203 grenade launcher and started firing at the al-Qaida fighters who were giving them trouble from a nearby creek bed.

"We don't know what happened," said Alex. "All we know is, their firing stopped."

The snipers also helped extract American troops in trouble.

Under cover of darkness, they and their U.S. special forces comrades led soldiers of the Airborne out of the danger area, scouting ahead for enemy threats and bringing the Americans up a little ways at a time until they eventually linked up with friendly forces.

"Things had to happen, man," Alex said.

They slept the night. All the next day they were under mortar fire - and off and on for the next nine days and nights.

"The mortars were the worst thing," said Master Cpl. Warren, 30, who was born in Owen Sound and grew up in Kincardine, Ont.

Warren knows about mortars; he's a qualified mortarman.

Mortars are an infantry battalion's longest range weapon. Lobbed from up to 5,684 metres away and guided by forward observers, they pack a powerful punch. They don't have to be terribly accurate. Their kill radius is 40 metres. Shrapnel flies in all directions, tearing apart limbs, heads, torsos.

Mortarmen and the forward observers, known as fire controllers, bracket their targets, adjusting their aim from the outside in - one to the left, one to the right - narrowing their range and bearing until they hit their mark.

At one point, the three Canadian snipers were pinned down by mortar fire in a dry riverbed. They were caught out in the open. The rounds came as close as 10 metres.

"They were bracketing us, walking them in," said Warren. "We'd move and they'd adjust fire. Eventually, they ran out of rounds, or they just gave up. I don't know."

They all escaped unscathed physically, but Warren admits the experience will stay with him a long time.

The incoming shells sounded like large birds fluttering their wings, he said. The sound changed as they came closer.

"You could hear the fins rotating as they came in," he said, making a noise like a spinning roulette wheel. "It's a sound I'll never forget."

Senior military officials in Ottawa made a point of praising their work.

"The sniper teams suppressed enemy mortars and heavy machine-gun positions with deadly accuracy," Vice-Admiral Greg Maddison said last week. "Their skills are credited with likely having saved many allied lives."

The snipers returned to base in Bagram, near Kabul, on March 11. Two days later - last Wednesday - the three were out again.

This time they were part of Operation Harpoon, with Canadian troops on "the Whale," a mountain overlooking the Shah-e-Kot valley where al-Qaida fighters were putting up stiff resistance.

Operation Harpoon, carried out in conjunction with Operation Anaconda, consisted of 500 Canadian and 100 U.S. troops under the command of Lt.-Col. Pat Stogran, who leads Canadian Forces in Afghanistan in the biggest ground offensive since the Korean War.

On Thursday, the snipers joined troops from the U.S. 10th Mountain Division in a Canadian-conceived assault on the castle-like rock feature from which al-Qaida fire controllers had guided mortars into their former positions with the 101st.

They took the rock with little resistance, killing several al-Qaida fighters and destroying an extensive cave complex.

The operation showed that Canada "is capable of combat operations," Ed said.

"It was nice as snipers to actually get to do our job in theatre," added Warren.

"I'm extremely happy to be here," said Alex.

"It's not about grabbing oil or anything like that. It's something important."

"Every time something happens, I just think Sept. 11 and all the people who were not involved in armed conflict and were hurt. Innocent people - firefighters, police, women and children - who died just because a man doesn't agree with the way another people live."

© Copyright 2002 The Canadian Pres

________________

Darren...

Semper Fi

Darren <usmc_dd214_1990@yahoo.com>
San Francisco, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 21:40:17 (ZULU)

Am sure this has been visited before, but want any new updates as well that you might know of.

I'm looking for ranges in the Midwest (U.S. of A.) where I can stretch out to at least 1000 yards.  Some of the shooting that I do is with small calibers at that range, some up to .50 . . .

I do get a chance to shoot longer ranges in NV but that's a bit far from Missouri <heh> and only get to do that once or twice a year.

If y'all could post (or email) your range knowledge (city, state, range info, what are costs, etc.) I'd appreciate it.  I currently drive 75 minutes or 100 minutes (towards Kansas City or towards St. Louis) to shoot at 600 yards now, until we get our local (15 minutes) club ranges out from 300 to 600.

Yes, we're eventually going to 1000 at least here, but the land is tied up in the CRP program (farm land) for 6 more years.

Thanks all, John

John <john@leveron.com>
looking for long distance ranges in the, Midwest, U.S. of A. - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 22:29:33 (ZULU)

Congrat's Marc!

Please email your shipping address.  Your Brownells Glass Bed Kit will be on it's way.

Hogs - I will turn this on again at: 03/28/02 - 01:00 ZULU

Take care - I'm settling down for the evening (don't feel goodly).

Thanks again to CatShooter (aka Pablito) for providing these kits.

Ken :)

Free Bee - Brownells Glass Bed Kit <scfreebee@aspiringtech.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 23:18:56 (ZULU)

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 00:14:05 (ZULU)

I read your post a few days ago, regarding the "lack of warranty", if nylon brushes are used.  Forgive my question, but, why?  The idea of using them to apply liquids like Barnes CR10, a few strokes in the beginning of the cleaning session, I thought would be a good one.  If I am causing damage to the bore, or any other problems, please inform me.   After letting it sit, then continuing the remainder of the cleaning with patches, is what has been done in the past.  Now I am wondering.  This is for a "Sendero, in .300 RUM", if that matters any.

Is by chance the nylon acting as a lap, as in picking up particles of "crud", and abrading the bore?  Is it the actual nylon, as in UHMW?

Posted for a friend, by Sean,,,

Good luck to all on the Bedding draw, and on the Riffle Raffle,,,

Out.

Sean Thomas <nailer@mackbc.com>
Mackenzie,, B.C., , the "EVIL" ones, in the softwood lumber agreement, - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 01:09:41 (ZULU)

Wanted to get your guys opinion on the Sako extractor. How is it on the 700 action? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Semper Fi,

Larry

Larry <lwebdell@gloryworks.com>
- Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 01:17:37 (ZULU)

New Gear Guru's in town.

www.arktisusa.com

For those who don't know, Arktis has been making web gear for a long time in England.   They are like a European Eagle or Blackhawk.

They are sending out free catalogs.

I imagine Peter is familiar with them so maybe he will chime in?

I don't know about you guys, but I have always had a thing for DPM.

Tim <Rokchukrslave@aol.com>
Portland, OR, - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 01:43:20 (ZULU)

Dennis Muldrew <dmuldrew@swbell.net>
OP, KS, USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 02:17:34 (ZULU)

Ken sorry to bring this here but this is where it all begain.

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 02:31:06 (ZULU)

mick <JPB21@webtv.net>
- Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 03:11:38 (ZULU)

When's the RiffleRaffle?????  I get a knee replaced on 1 April 2002 and don't want to miss out!

Larry

Larry J. Porter <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USofA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 03:28:35 (ZULU)

Arktis = good kit.

Pete

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 03:33:38 (ZULU)

Dennis, Ive got a stock pack on the above rifle and on my 450 Marlin, you can add foam from a camping roll matt under the stock pack untill you get the right height, I did this on the 450 to get me up to the right place to look through the 2.2-10x56 scope, just the pack makes a nice soft cheek pad on any other stock designed for scope use and does give you a little extra height. The stock pack is also handy for carrying a couple of spare bits and pieces too.

Pete.

P.S Guys, my home email will be out of use  from today untill I get my office built, so Im only contactable on the work mail until further notice.

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 03:59:25 (ZULU)

Pass on the Sako extractor.  Put your money into something else (like better optics!!)

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
- Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 04:37:47 (ZULU)

Use Post-'64 Winchester Model 70 mounts for a short acton gun. The Badger Ordnance mount I got in the other week went right on with no problems.

-Tom

Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Columbia, SC, USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 05:27:53 (ZULU)

Galileo, the European Sat Nav system has been given the final go ahead at a meeting in Brussels, it is planned to launch 30 satellites between now and 2008.

This is totaly civilian, so European countries Armed forces will be still using the US GPS system, however I imagine that LE community will be using the system and it could be interesting for private use. Im not sure what the anticipated advantages are over the US version are supposed to be.But I intend to find out.

Just another piece of non shooting related useless info,but may help some one find their ass with both hands at some point in the future.

Pete

Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 05:28:42 (ZULU)

Marc <onesonek@hotmail.com>
Getting out the scuba gear to walk the dog, PA, - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 05:57:40 (ZULU)

 The current production SPR's (new medium action) use a mount all of its own.   Badger Ordnance is the only current manufacturer and is where FN gets their mounts.   Call FN with your serial # to find out which mount you will need.  

Ref: Gun World artical,  It is the 300 WSM piece I helped out on a while back.  It is in the May issue being sold now.   Look for a artical on the "Rock" in June.

George

George Gardner, G.A. Precision <a10xrifle@aol.com>
N.Kansas City, MO, USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 06:08:43 (ZULU)

So how about some of you gas gunners, and closet gas gunners, giving me some starting points.

All loads will be LC brass trimmed and de-crimped, CCI 200 primers, 168 SMK's. OAL will be 2.800.

Oh yeah crimp or no crimp? Again been told both ways.

Thanks in advance for the help and info!

Sarge

Sarge <garryrn@zianet.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 07:41:31 (ZULU)

Kevin, do you really work for a living?  I met your "boss" Jack when you came down to Ft Lauderdale that time but maybe you just "rented" some guy off the street?  

You spend more time shooting while you're working than most of us do when we have time off!  :-)

Moe The Jealous

Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, US of A - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 11:44:58 (ZULU)

I stand corrected. You mean to tell me that FN is having Winchester develop a one-off action length just for them?  Man, these FN guys mean business.

Remington Trigger Adjustment:

Have a friend in the upstate of SC that needs a professional gun wrench to tune the trigger on a 700PSS for him. Anybody know of a 'smith on the I-85 corridor (Charlotte to Atlanta) that is up to the job?

-Tom

Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Columbia, SC, US of A! - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 11:46:13 (ZULU)

I did the weight test with the 3 day assault pack as you suggested.  Here is my report:

I put a 25 pound plate in the large compartment, a 25 pound plate in the handgun compartment, and two 10 pound plates in the third and smallest compartment.  that is 70 pounds of weight total.  I ran my butt off yesterday afternoon in the rain up and down the pipeline behind my house.  I observed a couple of things...

1.  I need to desparately get my butt into shape.

2.  the pipeline is not the best jogging track around.

3.  The bag held up without opening nor having any stress issues on the stitches.  Just for your back though, you might want to keep the weight up high, my lower back is talking to me this morning.

4.  I ran/jogged/walked/strained and cursed for over an hour doing this.  I then held the bag up by the carry handle and shook it up and down for another ten minutes or so.  

One thing about the bag is that it has clips on the side for extra support.  I think that those may have had an impact on keeping the zippers from opening.  

Mike

BCR#226 <michaels226@hotmail.com>
Sterling, VA, USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 13:01:19 (ZULU)

New toy, Walther PPK in .32 ACP. Stainless. Yes Moneypenny! It looks like a pimp gun! But it's as accurate as a custom colt. Maybe picking those guys off across the street wasn't as Hollywood as I thought.

Tested a couple cheap scopes last night.

One was a Simmons 4-16(I know I know) target turrets, one shot zero, ao. etc. Save your money the power ring jumps impact  12 clicks or more when you move it. Lens sucka.  

The other WEAVER new Generation 2X10X50 no AO or Target Turrets. Turrets (clicks) reset exactly, light good, power ring no shift, eye relief adequate about like VarXII same power. $200 class. I've seen a lot worse. Nice Matte finish. A little stove pipe around the lens. One of my pet peeves. Otherwise pretty fair tube.

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
, KS, USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 14:20:22 (ZULU)

Sarge was wondering about the service duplication load. Believe it is actually 41.7 grains of IMR-4895 instead of 41.5 grains. Big deal, a .02 grain difference...

Any of the medium burn rate powders should work well. I'm using 42.0 grains of Accurate Arms 2520(Older Isreali powder) and it works extremely well. This over a Sierra 175 MK, LC match case, and a Winch LR primer. OAL is 2.800. Velocity from my M25 Geoff Corn built M25 is 2,600 FPS.

Personally, I'd use Varget and not look back. I'm using 2520 because it meters well and I have about 10 lbs of the stuff left.

By the way gents, I passed my physical and start with the Oregon Department of Corrections on Monday, April Fool's Day! A new career path and job. I'm excited!

My best to all you listers. Won't be shooting much with work and house hunting/moving. We'll, it's gotta be done.

Semper Fi,

Wes

Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 15:24:27 (ZULU)

Don't let Mike scare you off, He is actually a pretty nice guy! (He did give some of us cookies at the end!)

Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
looking forward to a steak in NM, USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 16:27:44 (ZULU)

For those that what to know what the load information is for many U.S. Army small arms ammo you need to look at TM-43-0001-27.  You can find a copy online at:

http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/tm43-0001-27.pdf

Here is what is says about the Match round developed for the M14 for those that are time challenged:

Type Classification:  STD - MSR 09816009.

Use:  Rifle, 7.62 mm, M14, NATIONAL MATCH. The cartridge is intended and specifically prepared for use in those weapons designated as competitive rifles and also for marksmanship training. The cartridge is not for combat use.

Description:  MATCH Cartridge. The cartridge is identified by the cartridge case head stamping of MATCH. It also has a knurl at the base of the cartridge case and a hollow point bullet.

Tabulated Data:

DODAC....................... 1305-A171

UNO serial number .......... 0012

UNO proper shipping name ... Cartridges for weapons, inert projectile

Weight ..................... 385 gr

Length...................... 2.83 in. (71.9 mm)

Tracer- .....................NA

Primer ......................Percussion

Fuze ........................NA

Explosive:

Type ................NA

Weight ..............NA

Incendiary: Type ....NA

Weight ..............NA

Propellant: Type ....IMR 4895

Weight ..............42 gr

Bullet: Type ........Hollow point

Weight ..............168 gr

Performance: Chamber pressure .....50,000 psi

Velocity ..........................2550 fps, 772 nips

It's worth a read for those that are interested.  Special note:  It was brought to my attention that the burn rate of the listed powder may be different from the commercial powders available to the general public.  As with any reloads alway start below published maximum and work up to it checking for problems along the way!

Hope this helps clear up any mystery...

Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 16:52:09 (ZULU)

Contact Dave Tooley in Gastonia, NC.  Web address is

www.tooleyrifles.com  Not far for you.

Sarge,

Regarding the M1A.  41.5 grains of IMR-4895 is/was the standard across-the-course load for the M1A.  Sometimes called the "Camp Perry Load."  If your rifle will not shoot this, there is a serious problem.  Of course there are probably better loads, but this one is the "standard."  41.5 IMR-4064 works well too.

BTW, small base size and no crimp

Byron,

The load reference you posted is the M-852 loading.  The M-852 was the only (at least to my knowledge) brass that had the knurled ring on the case.  It does have 42 grains of IMR-4895.  I have several cans of this stuff and it shoots well.

Semper Fi

Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
VA, USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 19:02:09 (ZULU)

looking for information or rock barrels   308  1/11 twist  info like where can  I get one   I cant find anything on the net

website   or phone # for dealer or manufacture

help me out Gooch!!!

JIM ANDERSON <OCSO245@HOTMAIL.COM>
OKC, OK, USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 20:16:24 (ZULU)

Ya'll get it?

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
, KS, USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 20:17:17 (ZULU)

Everyone that has responded on the M1A reloads THANK YOU have gotten some real good info!

THANKS AGAIN

Sarge

Sarge <garryrn@zianet.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 20:37:21 (ZULU)

On Mike Rock 5R barrels :

Rock Creek Barrels, Inc.

101 Ogden Avenue, P.O. Box 330

Albany, WI 53502

(608) 543-3022 (home)

(608) 574-2111 (office/shop)

http://www.rockcreekbarrels.com/

mikerock@rockcreekbarrels.com

John <john@leveron.com>
5R barrels are nice!, U.S. of A. - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 21:28:29 (ZULU)

Ducking incoming....Str8shot out

Str8shot <mshockley@hotmail.com>
South central, MI, USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 22:07:10 (ZULU)

http://www.smooth-on.com/epoxy.htm

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
Everything's pollen covered in , NC, - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 22:34:12 (ZULU)

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
, KS, USA - Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 22:38:32 (ZULU)

I was wondering what the general opinion of the group was towards the Tasco Super Sniper series of rifle scopes? I was looking into getting one to try out since it is only 300 bucks, but if it is crapola then I can save my money and eventually buy a leupold or something of it's equivalant. I would apreciate any comments you gentlemen might have on this subject.

Thanks,

David W. Saylors

David W. Saylors <l175516@exchange.appl.ge.com>
Trenton, GA, US of A - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 00:13:48 (ZULU)

1. Send a message to scfreebee@aspiringtech.net

2. Check back here tomorrow around this same time.

3. We will pick a winner.

click on the email address to play.

The winner of the last freebee needs to email his shippping address to:  ken@hunters.org .... I haven't heard from him yet......

thanks hogs.

Ken

Free Bee - Brownells Glass Bed Kit <scfreebee@aspiringtech.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 01:08:53 (ZULU)

I have had 2 Tasco SS 10x42 (not the M model) scopes for a few years now and have had no problems what so ever.  Your mileage may vary.  I think that you will find that these scopes are not too well received here at SC, but then again, neither is Savage ;-)  I just can't explain it!!  BTW, both these scopes are mounted on Savage rifles:-)))

Filling sand bags and building bunker!!!!!!!!!!!

Semper Fi

Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
VA, USA - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 01:35:14 (ZULU)

OK Hogs I'm going to start reloading for the M1A here very shortly and need some input. I've read that 41.5 of IMR 4895 with the 168 SMK is the "duplicate" of the LC Match round....

Oh yeah crimp or no crimp?.....

As stated earlier this is a tried and tested load for an M1-A.  What you have to be concerned with is the burn rate of the powder.  Each gas piston is different they will have a particular preference.  In my M1-A I could not shoot Varget or AA-2520.  It seemed to like faster powders IMR3031, W-748, H-4895 and IMR4895.  The difference was between holding the 9 ring and 7 ring with the slower powder.  My advice is to try several before you stock up.  When accurizing an M1-A a good gunsmith will try several pistons until he find one that will group with the requested load.  

Also, don’t crimp, just harder on the brass.

Jerry

Jerry <gcm522@aol.com>
Baltimore, MD, USA - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 02:41:14 (ZULU)

To guys wanting Mike Rock barrels:

G.A. Precision stocks 1-12, 1-11, 1-10 Stainless 5R Barrels all are M-24 (#7) taper  30 cal. some fluted as well.    About 80 barrels in stock currently.

The above info posted by John is correct if you are wanting to speak with Mike.

George

George Gardner, G.A. Precision <a10xrifle@aol.com>
N.Kansas City, MO, USA - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 02:48:55 (ZULU)

Do you know what the magazine OAL is on the new FN rifles?

Nicholas Young <ynicholas1@qwest.net>
SLC, UT, USA - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 03:04:56 (ZULU)

If that local "gunsmith" (that I'm using for the first time)

screws up cutting my barrel down and re-crowning it, I won't whine, I'll conduct a commando raid on his shop!

Knock out his communications, cripple his transportation system, distrupt his infrastructure.........

Or maybe I just need to wait and see how well he really does?  But it's always good to have an tactical op-plan in place, just in case.  

PS.  I just want to say to the managment of Sniper Country that I am only making a joke.  I would not really do this, I would only think this. I am retired from hurting people, I am no longer paid to do this.  Please don't report me to the local authorities at this time.

But..........if he screws up my rifle!!!!!!

Rambosky - Out

Larry Surretsky <rambovn@aol.com>
Kings Mountain, NC, Land of the Free and the Brave - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 03:12:06 (ZULU)

 As I explained to the guys down here, I'm just a hobbiest.  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

 Two more days and I'll be through. (havin' a ball)

out

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 03:37:13 (ZULU)

Tim

Gizmo <ssn581@teleport.com>
Beavercreek, OR, USA - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 04:29:21 (ZULU)

mick <JPB21@webtv.net>
- Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 06:02:41 (ZULU)

Hello all,

I have a Remington Sendero in .300 WinMag and the stock around the safety is beginning to chip.  I am concerned that it will eventually get worse.  Who do I go to to find out if the stock has a warranty?  Remington or HS?  Thanks in advance for any help.  Please email me at snarl@coastalnow.net if it is convenient.

Thanks

Marc

Marc Ingram <snarl@coastalnow.net>
Hinesville, GA, USA - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 12:12:43 (ZULU)

Just noticed the following on ITWeb - a local newspaper site realted to IT.

http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/internet/2002/0203281213.asp

=================

Nigerian Web site counters e-mail fraud

BY GAVIN DUDLEY, ITWEB JOURNALIST

[Johannesburg, 28 March 2002] - Believing its Internet image sullied by a profusion of fraudulent schemes, the Nigerian government has launched a Web site dedicated to protecting gullible Netizens from illegal e-mail schemes emanating from the country.

Most South African Internet users wised up to the scams after receiving half a dozen e-mails from a variety of so-called Nigerian government officials, bank tellers and relatives of some recently ousted despot offering to share millions of US dollars, but it appears that not all Netizens were so lucky.

The Nigerianfraudwatch.org Web site, viewed by some as too little and too late, chronicles the sad tale of many highly educated, First World citizens whose greed overtook their sensibility and ended up costing them thousands of dollars.

These mass e-mails, which often greet the recipient by name, typically claim that a large amount of money is available, often held in a bank account of a deceased foreigner or detained local dignitary, and that the recipient of the e-mail can take a cut of this wealth in return for getting money out of the country. This can be achieved either by simply providing bank account details or, in some cases, by posing as the deceased and simply withdrawing the money from the bank.

According to the Nigerianfraudwatch.org Web site, this "black money" fraud most often occurs when the e-mail sender requests some cash to kick-start the deal, often citing administrative overheads or bribe money.

Already the stuff of Internet legend, these schemes are outlawed in Nigeria under Section 419 of its penal code which covers "advanced fee fraud". The Web site also notes more serious consequences which ensue when the victim arrives in Nigeria to claim their cash. They are held hostage until more money is handed over, or "officials" will demand additional fees to help track down the fraudsters.

The so-called 419 letters have damaged genuine investment opportunities for the country, say government officials, and the ill-gotten gains are most often used to fund other, more serious criminal activities such as drug running or arms trafficking.

The site, whose domain is registered by the Nigerian High Commission in London, carries a full inventory of the various schemes, samples of the letters e-mailed out and the steps followed by the fraud perpetrators. It also has links to local and international anti-fraud bodies and has devoted many pages to describing legitimate ways to do business with Nigeria.

The greatest test of this site's authenticity may be that it doesn't request any money from the visitor to use it.

=============

And her eI was thinking going to Nigeria and getting me some money! :-)

Marius

Marius <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
- Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 13:09:50 (ZULU)

Rambo man; relax and take a deep breath, any huckster can handle that job. I've done 50 of em as clumsy as I am and some with a Dremmel tool and a power chop saw.  The results were always as good or better than the factory originals.  I always say that, cause JR sqringes when he hears it and he needs some more stress in his life! IF the smith screws up we all know a good crematorium in Georgia. We'll all testify for you when you plead justifiable homicide!

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
, KS, USA - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 13:32:58 (ZULU)

For those of you who are planning to visit W. Virginia and shoot Rod and John's course, a word of advise. I was with them this past weekend and was able to eyeball the course so the following suggestion comes from the heart. I strongly suggest you blow the dust off your "Book of Excuses" as the ones you carry around in your hip pocket will not suffice!

Have Fun!

Bob rcsdet@earthlink.net

Bob Simison <rcsdet@earthlink.net>
- Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 14:10:36 (ZULU)

Having missed most of the episodes, am I just prejudiced or are the SWAT guys kind of holding their own ?  

Watch Your Sixes,

Brian

brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 14:31:34 (ZULU)

Check to see if any part of the action, bolt, or safety is touching the stock... that might cause the chipping from the shock of recoil.

If any part is touching, clean it out with a Dremel tool, so there is no contact.  You can use a bit of epoxy to repair the chip.

If it is failing because of faulty materials or workmanship... send it to H-S.

Remington can't fix their own guns, much less someone elses stock!!

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Still grumpy after all these years... and getting grumpier!... Chief curmudgion at large!, - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 14:51:46 (ZULU)

 Tell us how you really feel about Remingtons service dept.:):)

Brian..

 I have seen them all and have followed it with some intrest. I don't know if most of these guys just don't have it anymore or they never did. The Bravo team is mostly SWAT cops and a SEAL is their leader. They are unbeaten so far.

 I think the reason they are doing well is because they are used to working as a team and taking orders and listen to the leader. The other teams seem to have a problem with everyone wants to be the leader!! When something happens they don't adapt to the changing senerio.

 The other thing is that someone needs to explain to them the difference between "Cover" and "Concealment". Squating behing a bush doesn't stop bullets. They may have a rule that you can't go prone but if so they need to keep moving when the shit hits the fan. The other thing is they don't seem to really "Check" the area they are going through. Like last night when a lookout was setting on the side of the hill and the two guys walked up over a knoll and never seen him in plain sight. If he would have started shooting right away he would have killed them both.

  Of course its easy for me to be and arm chair quarterback I am not out there either, so I shouldn't be to critical. Its just my observation from what I have seen.

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 15:26:00 (ZULU)

Actually, I have nothing against Remington's real, inside, Illion NY service dept... those guys know Remingtons inside and out.  But 3/4ths of these guys have been fired over the last ten years (Thank you Stren), so the repair dept at Rem is almost nothing left of the orginal repair dept.

You send a gun to Illion, and there is a "triage dept" (you medivac guys damn well know what that is!).  Some bimbo (who worked down at Charlie's Car parts last year), looks at your stick, and sends it to a gunshop on their "helper list", cuz Rem can't handle the load.  It might be some jerkwater shop in the swamps of Mississippi, where the guy also repairs lawm mowers, and outboard motors... and unless you know how to get around the "triage" system, you are out of luck.  I discovered this when trying to get a Rem Presentation grade 1100 Skeet gun repaired... just a minor feeding problem, and it went to Rem, and came back from "Joe's guns and pawn shop" in Mississippi, who said there was nothing wrong with it... went back to Rem, and came back from some dump in Nevada, saying there was nothing wrong with it.  I got 32 guys at the gun club to sign a petition that it was not working right, and sent it back with a letter from my lawyer, saying if they didn't fix it... (well, you know!).

Then, after a week, I called Rem, and got a bimbo at Stren, and told her I wanted to speak to the smith who was working on my gun, and had to threaten legal action to get through... and the Rem smith was the real deal, and a damn nice guy too... he knew RIGHT AWAY, from the discription in the letter, what was wrong before he even took the gun out of the box... cuz he had seen this quirk a hundred, a thousand times.  He did a total overhaul on all the "O" rings and everything else... no charge.  And he told me about the "triage system", and how to get round it.

If you can get your stick fixed by the old timers (if there are any left), you will be in good hands.

But if your stick winds up at "Joe's guns and pawn shop", you are in deep poopie.

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
- Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 15:46:07 (ZULU)

 Been there and done that!! I sent a 243 in a couple of years ago with a bad barrel and called so many times I got on a first name basis with the lady. We actually got along great and after the second or third month and a marrige perposal she sent me a new 260 to replace my 243.

 The only bad thing was it was a damn clip style!!! She had them FedEx it to me in two days after my sob story about ruining my hunting trip. PS.. If anyone is intrested I will sell my sob story for a small fee(HA)!!

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 17:26:11 (ZULU)

Thanks.

Dave <weldedwelk@twave.net>
- Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 18:50:54 (ZULU)

     Rod

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 19:52:44 (ZULU)

You were right!  I got my Rem 700P rifle back from the "local" gunsmith at noon today and it looks great.  He took 4" off the barrel and put a damn good 11' crown back on and blued it.  I'm now a happy camper or a happy shooter.  

Still, giving your gun to someone to work on is like letting one of your "buddies" drive your girl friend home from a night out on the town of drinking and dancing.  You just don't know what kind of condition she'll be in when you see her again.

Out to the rifle range tomorrow morning...........

The yard work, cleaning the windows, cleaning out the garage can wait till another time.  (I'm glad my wife doesn't read this Wed site.)

Rambosky - Over............

Larry Surretsky <rambovn@aol.com>
Kings Mountain, NC, Myrtle Beach here I come! - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 20:17:52 (ZULU)

An Editorial

We rarely get a chance to see another country's editorial about us, the USA. When you think the US isn't thought well of all over the world, read this editorial from a Romanian Newspaper.

Ed Fillmore, ACS Government Solutions Group, TMA Aurora

(303).676.3774

It is an editorial from the Romanian newspaper with the name "Evenimentul Zilei" -- News of the Day. Managing Director Cornel Nistorescu published the piece on September 24, calling it "Ode To America."

An Ode to America

Why are Americans so united? They don't resemble one another even if you paint them! They speak all the languages of the world and form an astonishing mixture of civilizations. Some of them are nearly extinct, others are incompatible with one another, and in matters of religious beliefs, not even God can count how many they are.

Still, the American tragedy turned three hundred million people into hand put on the heart. Nobody rushed to accuse the White House, the army, the secret services that they are only a bunch of losers. Nobody rushed to empty their bank accounts. Nobody rushed on the streets nearby to gape about. The Americans volunteered to donate blood and to give a helping hand. After the first moments of panic, they raised the flag on the smoking ruins, putting on T-shirts, caps and ties in the colors of the national flag. They placed flags on buildings and cars as if in every place and on every car a minister or the president was passing. On every occasion they started singing their traditional song: "God Bless America!".

Silent as a rock, I watched the charity concert broadcast on Saturday once, twice, three times, on different TV channels. There were Clint Eastwood,Willie Nelson, Robert de Niro, Julia Roberts, Cassius Clay, Jack Nicholson, Bruce Springsteen, Sylvester Stalone, James Wood, and many others whom no film or producers could ever bring together. The American's solidarity spirit turned them into a choir. Actually, choir is not the word. What you could hear was the heavy artillery of the American soul.

What neither George W. Bush, nor Bill Clinton, nor Colin Powell could say without facing the risk of stumbling over words and sounds, was being heard in a great and unmistakable way in this charity concert. I don't know how it happened that all this obsessive singing of America didn't sound croaky, nationalist, or ostentatious! It made you green with envy because you weren't able to sing for your country without running the risk of being considered chauvinist, ridiculous, or suspected of who-knows-what mean interests.

I watched the live broadcast and the rerun of its rerun for hours listening to the story of the guy who went down one hundred floors with a woman in a wheelchair without knowing who she was, or of the Californian hockey player, who fought with the terrorists and prevented the plane from hitting a target that would have killed other hundreds or thousands of people.

How on earth were they able to bow before a fellow human? Imperceptibly, with every word and musical note, the memory of some turned into a modern myth of tragic heroes. And with every phone call, millions and millions of dollars were put in a collection aimed at rewarding not a man or a family, but a spirit which nothing can buy.

What on earth can unite the Americans in such a way? Their land? Their galloping history? Their economic power? Money? I tried for hours to find an answer, humming songs and murmuring phrases which risk of sounding like common places.

I thought things over, but I reached only one conclusion: Only freedom can work such miracles!

Sal <scozz@prexar.com>
- Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 21:11:21 (ZULU)

Dude!!!... >"The yard work, cleaning the windows, cleaning out the garage can wait till another time."<

Tell your wifie that God invented winter for all that stuff ;)

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
- Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 22:40:31 (ZULU)

Yep, I know exactly what that means. In a mass casualty event (hence the need for triage), those that complain the loudest are the ones you're not as concerned about. If they can complain, that means there's air going into their lungs, the body is perfusing and if they're not bleeding out somewhere you don't pay quite as much attention to them (for now). It's the ones that're REAL quiet that scares the s*** out of you.

Mark W <sharps45@msn.com>
Hi-Plains of Texas, - Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 23:08:25 (ZULU)

The Romanian said it well, yes Freedom..... so it is!

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Friday, March 29, 2002, at 00:06:34 (ZULU)

I was shooting from the 600 yard berm and had the wind all figured out.  I was dialed in waiting for the fire command.  First round was off and good to go.  I bolted the rifle and settled back in and saw the mirage change from a running 3:00 to 9:00 to a picture perfect boil.  As I'm thinking how to change my hold to compensate it shifted to a running 9:00 to 3:00.  My hard drive locked up and just shot.  I got a horizontal across the target.  I'm thinking of leaving all wind adjustments off the gun and just hold from now on, especially when the wind is shifting so radically.  Do any of you guys do that?  Trying to, look-dial, look-dial, look-dial, is just too slow and was not working for me.  Any long range work is made even tougher when operating alone.  I didn't have a spotter so I was on my own when it came to calling the wind.  Thank God West Virgina winds are so calm and constant.  I won't have to worry about this in May. ;-)

out

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 01:18:36 (ZULU)

Dude - email your shipping info to: ken@hunters.org

thanks for playing hogs.....

Next freeebee will be turned on at 03/29/02 23:00 ZULU

Free Bee - Brownells Glass Bed Kit <scfreebee@aspiringtech.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 01:34:03 (ZULU)

Need some info.  What I'm looking for is some info on bullet drop.  Here's the deal; from a 100 yard zero, I am 13.5 MOA to 600 and 35.25 MOA to 1000.  My load chronos right on 2675, bullet is 175 SMK, elevation is between 500'-1000', air temp is 65 deg and humidity is about 40%.  Now I have plugged all this in to JBM and the 600 and 1000 #s do not line up.  I know that I need to shoot all the ranges and document it, but I cannot, so.......... If there is anyone out there that has a trusted ballistics program that has worked well for them and wants to punch this up for me, I would really appreciate it.

BTW, anyone that gets The American Rifleman and wants to see a really nice rifle, turn to page 80 and look at the picture at the top.  Nice!!!!!!!! ;-))))))))))))))))))))

Semper Fi

Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
Reston, VA, USA - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 01:57:32 (ZULU)

Semper Fi,

Larry

Larry <lwebdell@gloryworks.com>
usa - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 03:34:43 (ZULU)

The IRS is deciding on whether to revoke PETA's tax exempt status.

Everyone please sign the online petition against PETA.

www.petitiononline.com/rvkptaex/petition.html

Nicholas Young <ynicholas1@qwest.net>
SLC, UT, USA - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 03:48:01 (ZULU)

Leave the little knobs alone.

jc

jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 06:32:23 (ZULU)

Been trying to sew some sand bags. Well gunna make them out of beans. Dang sewing machine keeps causing me grief. Wife out of town. And no beer to take the edge off.

Dirty Steve, miffed and out.

Steve Dickerson <ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 06:48:45 (ZULU)

Ken,I am in the early stages of learnin but I have read some of the guys on here hold for wind and I was spottin for a bloke a couple weeks back and could see mirage change between him lookin through his spottin scope and gettin back to the peep sights,and his shots were goin where I thought they would but he missed the change.Very good lesson.

out

G.W

Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Friday, March 29, 2002, at 10:29:02 (ZULU)

        Rod  

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Friday, March 29, 2002, at 13:25:46 (ZULU)

        Rod  

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Friday, March 29, 2002, at 13:27:11 (ZULU)

  I dial for the wind when it is constant or out of one direction. If its switching around or a light wind that may die down I usually will hold or add a touch and then watch to make sure I "Don't" get cought by a lull in the wind. Out here in SD we usually dial because if you hold off you won't be on the target. Our winds are usually 10+ for a "Nice" day of shooting. Hold hard!!

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Friday, March 29, 2002, at 14:57:00 (ZULU)

I get to be a bachelor this weekend! Momma is going to a wedding in Spokane,WA! Since I start work Monday I "couldn't" go...;-)

Picked up my uniforms yesterday. I WILL look stunning in institutional grey!

Will be on the range having fun on Sunday...now THAT is worth looking forward to...going to check the camming on my M3 6X Luppie.

Having a fight with a severe head/chest cold. Figures, get a little spring weather and I get sick...pooh!

All for now. More over the weekend when I'm a free man.

Semper Fi,

Wes

Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 16:14:02 (ZULU)

;-)

Played with the the .22 out to 100 for a short time between chores yesterday, here are the results.

Marlin M60.

4X30 mm scope

Federal standard velocity 40 grain solid

Range:  25, 50, 75, and 100 yards

My range is oriented NW to SE at a bearing of 140*.  Wind out of the north at 5-10.  There are buildings and stuff breaking up the flow of wind on the property.

I didn't try to hold for wind, just wanted to see the effects of it when holding dead on.  These measurements are approximate BTW.  Hey, it's a possum and coon gun!

25 yards:  ten shots in 1.2"

50 yards:  ten shots in 2"

75 yards:  ten shots in 4", and roughly 1.25" right of POI

100 yards:  kicking my a**!

Was great fun and I will be doing a lot more of it.  It seems that although the Federal standard load is the most accurate cheap load in my Marlin at short range, the high-vel stuff may edge it out over longer range due to shorter TOF and flatter trajectory, and I am going to check that out.  Also really want to hear about that Savage HB .22 bolt gun and how accurate it is.  Since it's a Savage, it's gotta be cheap, and really accurate, with a crappy stock right?

That oughta start a s***storm!

Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
WI, USA - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 16:23:00 (ZULU)

Congrats on the new employment!  Good luck ignoring your cold. Don't you just hate it when your time is **yours**?  

;-)

Hey, a friend of my wife is engaged to a young punk that is in basic right now, becoming a Marine.  Name is Cory, from WI.  Looking forward to hearing his stories at the wedding!

Back to taxes!  Out!

Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
WI, USA - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 16:32:25 (ZULU)

Actually..........you are almost right.  The Savage .22 MKII FV is cheap, accurate and actually has a nice laminated stock.  Bonus!!! ;-))))))

Taxes: I've got to cut loose with an additional $2,100 and will do so not before 4-15!!!!!  Bunch of @#&^%$(^%$#^%$%^%#$^&$@!!@@@$^&&

Semper Fi

Paul <paulcockerham@att.net>
VA, USA - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 16:50:13 (ZULU)

I never dial in for the wind.  It changes too fast, then I have to either hold off, but try to remember what I have dialed in... or I have to re-dial it, and by that time, it has changed again.  I just hold off on it.

Of course, where Pat lives, he has to dial in 35 moa of windage, just to get on the paper target at 100yds HA! ;))

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
This dude's getting an Anschutz... it's in the mail right now, should be here next week :)))))))))))))))))))))))))), - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 16:54:55 (ZULU)

I have a quick question.  I'm not a sniper, just a sportsman with a strong interest in getting into long range shooting.  I enjoy reading what you guys have to say since a lot of you have been there and done that.  Anyway, I was wondering if any of you have anything good or bad to say about the Trijicon Accupoint scopes.  I was thinking of one for hunting. I don't plan on shooting over 300-400 yards with it. I realize they are far from tactical scopes usage wise but people on this site seem to get exposed to all sorts of equipment and thought I'd get some opinions.  Anybody got one good or bad?  Thanks

Keith

Keith <kwhat72@aol.com>
Raleigh, NC, USA - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 18:02:29 (ZULU)

I have a Lyman 45 taper crimp die that has a few scratches in it. Does anyone know thier phone number or email so I can talk to them and get a new one ?

Thanks

SGT Jake

Jake P <para13bp@gsinet.net>
New Hampshire, USA - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 18:27:21 (ZULU)

Jake...

Lyman Products Corp

475 Smith St, Middletown, CT 06457

(860) 632-2020

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
On the Israeli situation... "When in doubt - Take them out!"... (applies to Cats too! ;), - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 18:47:02 (ZULU)

I determine the kill size I have to work with

The minimum amout of wind blowing and drift at distance for that

The maximum amout of wind blowing and drift at that distance for that.

See how much I can fudge and still get energy on the target.

The I will typically dial for the Minimum wind I see and hold on the leading 25% in edge.  Wind picks up and I have the width of the target to still hit.  Wind stays contsant and I hit 25% in from where I aimed.  I completely screw up and I have a little wiggle room for a dinger hit.  I shoot when I see the minimum wind value and go then.

Heck works for me.  Your thing may be different but some that have tried it liked it.

Undude back to the sewing machine. USMC calls!

Mike Miller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Friday, March 29, 2002, at 20:28:08 (ZULU)

I am deciding on how/where to attach a sling to one of my sticks. It is a modified Rem 700 in a McMillan A3 stock. Presently, I have only one sling swivel available up front on my Parker Hale palm stop/spigot. The palm stop/spigot is in an Anshutz rail system. The bipod does not need to be attached to use the sling swivel. I am pontificating exactly where I want the other attachment points on the stock for sling swivels.

Here are a few of my ideas:  

1. Standard rear sling swivel butt stock area.

2. Under the vertical portion of the grip using some heavy duty "flush mount" swivels. (Maybe in addition to #1.)

3. Ambidexterous, side mounted swivels front and rear, similar to the AI stock system.

I need a good carry strap as well as a shooting sling available in the field. Slings I've used in the past with good results so far have been Mr. Undude's system and the Ching Sling. Any collective wisdom shall be digested and appreciated. Feel free to post it here or e-mail me off line.

I am still presently in "Domestic SERE Training". Going on day nine of 95% sleep deprivation, due to our newest kid's recent arrival. A word of serious advice to any new fathers out there: Please wash your hands well after cleaning your sticks before attempting to change your kid's diapers. I may have accidentally created the world's finest cologne: Hoppe's #9 mixed with baby powder.

('Lito, please check your e-mail - re: optics questions to you several days ago.)

Happy Passover and/or Easter to all,

Fred

(AKA Happy Papa)

Fred <ohc1@pacbell.net>
- Friday, March 29, 2002, at 22:09:15 (ZULU)

  I have a quick question for you. I had the butt end sling stud pull out of my McMillan A-2 last year in Wyoming at the D&L shoot and I want to put it back in. Have any ideas on what to do to keep it from doing that again at the worst possible time??

  I was thinking of trying to go in where it screwed in oringinally and hollow it out some them fill it full of plastic steel and then push my stud down into it. Any thoughts or ideas from anyone would be appreciated. You boys have a nice easter weekend, Thanks!!!

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Friday, March 29, 2002, at 22:37:16 (ZULU)

 Did you send me an e.mail reference "Finderkid has a question for you"?? If so I will open it but if not I don't want to get something I don't want. Thanks!!

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Friday, March 29, 2002, at 22:40:34 (ZULU)

 hogs - the sc freebee is now turned on  - over an hour late. I was out trying to work the kinks out of my repaired knee while the major was running.... sorta lost track of time....

Free Bee - Brownells Glass Bed Kit <scfreebee@aspiringtech.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 00:02:17 (ZULU)

>"Wind, I disagree with Catshooter on this."<

Of course you do, you ol' clankitty booger - What else is new!  ;)))

-

Fred...

Sorry, I thought I answered that one... maybe it's your badd e-mail breath ;)

Like the Cognac God said... "Let 'em eat Mac & Cheese".  Good optics are a joy to use and own... I can think of only two places where money is NEVER wasted in guns, and that is on barrels, and optics.

Go for what you want, and feed the rugrats Mac & cheese (let 'em watch an extra hour of TV, and they'll never complain ;)

-

Pat...

On the lug... that's exactly what I would do.  No flies on you (fleas maybe, but no flies ;)

And watch out for Bolt's e-mails... you read it, and your gun get's a drippy muzzle ;))

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
On the Israeli situation... "When in doubt - Take them out!"... (applies to Cats too! ;), - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 00:06:43 (ZULU)

Read over the GunWorld article with Georges 300WSM rifles. Good read, nice range..  Makes me wanna go there, maybe even shoot, except for the 109 in the shade thing.. Possibly a fall class.

I noticed that Dave "Doc" King's rifle was the nemisis for the test...  Dave, if you were there, how'd you like the 300WSM?  Is the precievable recoil that much less?

Fred, bet that Hoppes stings in all the wrong places too ;))  

Hope all you hawgs have a good easter,

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
I've laughed, I've cried, I've learned how to cook cat...., - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 00:47:53 (ZULU)

Just opened a package from Brownell's contained hex bolts, a new Williams one piece steel base, and scope level for the Winnie HBV. Time to put it together. Still needing a base, guess it's time to hit the PX.

The HS Vertical grip arrived from Rosterferian Al O. and it is now time to bed the PSS. I do dread this as I am bound to screw something up. The test I did with the Smooth On epoxy I posted about previously appears to be the way to go. It is tough stuff and the Pam did fine as a release aid.

Kid and no sleep......... Try having a daughter with the colic for the first 9 weeks of her life and being allergic to milk to boot! I had the projectile puking thing down pat. Threw her over my shoulder, pointed her at the unlucky soul that I happened to be pissed off at the time and pulled the belly trigger. Ever smelled partially digested soy formula?

Off to the shop, Bolt out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 01:32:00 (ZULU)

On sling swivels. I have used Wichita Sling Swivels on several of my rifles. The durn things are glassed in as the stock is laid up...end result is an extremely rugged sling swivel you can repel with,etc.

Seems to me they run about $65.00 per set...get them.

Wes

Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 01:51:09 (ZULU)

dk <bohica999@hotmail.com>
Florida, - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 03:35:24 (ZULU)

That'd be one huge archive . . . and the Word document would never open right, if that big.

I'd either download the whole lot (if having the knowledge locally is your goal) month by month as .zips or use the search engine (click my name below), if it's specific content you're after.

Both have merit, and you're right, this is a great place to learn.

John

John <john@leveron.com>
new premier scope is enroute to, Mid - U.S.A. - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 04:00:25 (ZULU)

Somebody refresh my memory: what are some prefereed light-weight, moisture-resistant fillers for "sand" bags for shooting purposes?

Thanks:

-Tom

Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Columbia, SC, 29205 - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 04:34:45 (ZULU)

I'd try the delrin (plastic) pellets that you get as stuffed animal filler. They don't rot, swell or get water logged and they are light weight.

you can get them at craft stores like Michaels , OR you can find a bead bag Barney Doll and take out some aggression while you aquire the neccessary fill...

then again, you could use that doll AS your bag.  The looks at the firing line would be priceless....

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
I've laughed, I've cried, I've learned how to cook cat...., - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 04:38:50 (ZULU)

The 700p is finally done(for now). Took delivery of the new M3(thanks Fred) and mounted it the other day. Trigger gaurd is inletted, bedded and stock is painted. Action is bedded, lugs are lapped and the trigger is adjusted to a nice 3.5lbs. Just have to tourque everything down and zero.

Thanks to all that have given input over the last couple of months,you have helped me avoid many but not all, heart burn filled hours over the work bench.

I will post the results of my zero session, Lets hope she can shoot!

Thanks again, Jake

JakeP <para13bp@gsinet.net>
new Hampshire, USA - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 06:57:01 (ZULU)

we all know the correct torque for the action screws on a Remington or Winchester is 65 inch pounds, but what is the correct torque for a Styer   SSG? (PI and PII)

I don't want to crush the flimsy plastic trigger guard / magazine well thingy.

Is there a difference in torque between the old plastic stocks and the new McMillan ones? Both mine are the original plastic ones.

Sniff

Sniff <akh805@actrix.co.nz>
Auckland, New Zealand - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 08:02:38 (ZULU)

How's dem peepers?!  Me and the nugnut did ours 2 years ago and still see 20/10.

Hank <robahenry@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 08:51:33 (ZULU)

"I noticed that Dave "Doc" King's rifle was the nemisis for the test...  Dave, if you were there, how'd you like the 300WSM?  Is the precievable recoil that much less?"

I'm afraid I'm a poor person to ask about recoil, it's something that I barely notice.  FOr the 300WSM I believe I'll stick with the 300 Win Mag for a while, If I get a 300WSM it be in a long action anyway.

This was my first meeting face-to-face meeting with George Gardner and Ian McMurchy, both very nice folks.

They used the "Carlos" 300 Win Mag rifle for the eval and George's 300WSM.

Dave "Doc" King <David_L_King@Yahoo.Com>
Not D.C., MD, USA - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 12:14:51 (ZULU)

Good to see you round.  So the 300WSM still needs a bit of development to top the WM in your eyes.  It looks to be a pretty awsome round, but I get all herky jerky after about 20 rounds of 300WM and it stick with me until I train myself back out of flinching.  I was hopeing the WSM was a bit tamer, guess I'll it to see the difference.

Your 300WM is a proven winner though, and I wouldn't be giving up the "Carlos" rifle becasue there's a new kid on the block either.  

I'm starting to get antsy about the 6.5x284.  I can't scope the damn thing yet, but a guy shot a 194x8 with one his first time at 1K a coupe weeks back, and he's a lefty... we all know Lefty's are inferior shooters ;))

Promask donned, Kevlar on, waiting for incoming...

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
I've laughed, I've cried, I've learned how to cook cat...., - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 12:37:34 (ZULU)

I'll have approx. $1200 to start with. I'm looking at the REMINGTON

70 SENDERO in 7mm mag, and the WINCHESTER 700 STEALTH in .308. I've ben following as best as I can, shooting competitions, and see that most are non mag cals. Which rifle of these two should I choose, or is there another rifle any of you would recamend. Mag cals are flatter

shooting at longer ranges, so why wouldn't they be more common with

military or police sniper weapons systems? Another question I have is

what kind of scope should I use? The rifle I choose will be my starter

rifle for comp. shooting, but also my main hunting rifle. I've got my eye on several scopes. One of which is a govt model from springfield armory, another is the shepherdscope. What would be a good scope to start off with? I appreciate any advice anyone can give me.

Marcus Thomas <marcus03inf@aol.com>
Perry, Georgia, U.S.A. - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 14:14:20 (ZULU)

Question re: sling swivels.

Am I the only one here who wonders why the f we screw with them?  What about a plate you could inlet into the stock that would give you a recessed "sling bar" arrangement like on the rear of an HK G3?  Seems to me it makes more sense.  No noise, stronger, less prone to snags etc.  Marty, Bruce, George?????

Just one of those "Whats up wit dat?" thoughts.  Back to your regularly scheduled program....

Gooch out.

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 14:49:04 (ZULU)

I should have asked the nice people at Brownells if the Williams steel bottom metal would fit a short action Stealth stock. It friggin fidn't dit. The price on these babies have gone way up from the catalog price and they will advise you of this when you order. If anyone wants this one before I attempt to return it, I will ship it for $130 even. It is really a nice piece of steel and makes a Winnie look and feel much betterer.

Also, the replacement hex head screws are too long and have to be trimmed. I just can't win when it comes to messing with guns. I can take a thousand dollar reel apart, clean it and put it back together blind folded but I can't order the right stuff for a rifle. Jeeezzz!

Stupid, stupid, stupid, Bolt out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
Stupid in, NC, - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 14:57:12 (ZULU)

  Rod  

rod hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 15:40:30 (ZULU)

I'm also curious to know why the magazine is no longer in publication and when was the last publication date?

Looked like a good magazine and a good idea.

Mark W <sharps45@msn.com>
Hi-Plains of Texas, - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 15:56:54 (ZULU)

Rifle - Rem 700VS in .308 w/strap on cheekrest and harris BR-S model bipod.  Get someone who knows how to adjust the trigger to 3.5 pounds.

Scope - Tasco SS

Rings - Leupold standard 30mm.

Ammo - Black hills 175gr bthp.

out

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 16:49:07 (ZULU)

Smiling big in rainy Arkansas

Aaron :)

Aaron <bouser@arkansas.net>
Ark., U.S. of (Smile when you say that, Mister) A. - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 16:57:20 (ZULU)

Thanks for the link to your webpage. I had no idea there was a search engine for Sniper country. It will be a big help.

I still want to have all the archives on my computer. Maybe wordpad would work for this large of a document? Even if it takes 5 or 10 files that would still be a lot quicker to search.

dk <bohica999@hotmail.com>
Florida, - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 17:11:59 (ZULU)

First off, I would suggest that you go here, and give this page a good read... maybe twice:

http://www.snipercountry.com/Intro/intro.htm

Second, there is way more to tactical shooting, than shooting at a round bullseye, and you won't know IF you can be "good at it" until you have seen 3 or 4 thousand rounds through your tube.  With a 7mm Mag you will be buying a new barrel twice a year, for a few years, before you even find out if this is for you.

If you want your match rifle to be your hunting rifle... be prepared to lug from 12 to 15 pounds of rifle around the woods.

-

Bolt-ster...

Dude!

Don't have a hissy-fit.  Most of the Winchester floor plate stuff is steel already.  Just the trigger guard ring is alloy.  You can get a steel trigger guard from Brownell's for about $30 or $40, or Winchester themselves for a few bucks more, and it plugs right in.

As far as the allen head action screws being too long... THEY''RE 'POSED TO BE THAT WAY.  There are so many stocks that it would be imposable to have screws for them all.

Go to Home Depot, and get a Dremel tool, with an extra pack of the flat cut-off stones, and trim the screws to fit.  It's easier than lappin' rings ;))

-

Mark W...

"The Tactical Shooter" was converted to "The Accurate Rifle" (TAR for short) in November, 2 years ago.  As much as it pissed off a lotta guys on this site, I thought it was a GOOD MOVE.

Tactical shooter was published for about 3 years, of which the first year was very good, the second year was so-so, and the third year was God-friggin'-awful.  There are very few good writers in the tactical field... most are cops and ex-military, and you know where they fall on the writing skills scale.

One of the better articles of the last year of publication was a "field test" on bore cleaning brushes... including groups... from an OTC rifle???  Then there was the cover story, with three "SWAT" guys in full green/brown ghillie suits (including green vegetation picked from the park), climbing up the fire escape against a red brick building???

All intellegent life had abandoned the magazine!

Plus there isn't much to write about... this is a small sub-speciality of shooting, and once you have written about using mildots or done a few scope reviews, how many times can you do them again... also, we tactical shooters are cheap and didn't buy stuff from the advertisers, so the money support dropped away.

The publishers have many back issues, but not all... watch the emporium and sometimes guys sell their whole collection (of which only the first 18 months are worth reading.

-

dk... if you want the whole archives on your computer, just open one month at a time, and paste it into your word processor, and save it.

Probably take you a few hours a night for a week or two (have a BIG hard drive ;)

-

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has finely done sprung - Da birdies are singing, I've washed the car... I wonder where dem Kitties are? , - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 17:16:25 (ZULU)

I am having trouble getting a proper cheek weld/sight picture.

The setup is; 700P with the factory HS stock, badger 20 min base, loopy M4 rings mounting a LR M3. It seems that I cant get high enough on the stock to get a good Solid sight picture. When I do my head is almost off the stock. Eye relief is good but I need some more cheek elevation.

I have seen the Blackhawk/Eagle ect.. cheek pads but dont like the idea of a velcro'ed on piece of nylon that could possibly slip around. I was thinking maybe some adhesive backed dense foam that I could trim and stick. It would be semi permanent and wouldnt loosen up or shift on me.I would like to avoid buying a new stock seeing how I just spent about 20 hours inletting and bedding this one.

Has anyone run into this problem? If so what did you come up with?

thoughts,questions,comments,concerns

...and I do appreciate you being round...  

Sgt Jake

(P.S.,  I am using the standard height loopy rings)

Jake P <para13bp@gsinet.net>
New Hampsha, USA - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 17:35:23 (ZULU)

PAC-NOR #7 contour 1/11 twist crome moly

anyone have any experience with PAC-NOR barrels???

I hope it shoots,  shouldnt be to hard to out shoot an 18.00$ factory remington pss barrel.      WE WILL SEE

Jim Anderson <OCSO245@HOTMAIL.COM>
OKC, OK, USA - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 17:41:10 (ZULU)

Duuuuuuuuuuude........As they say in the fatherland "Viel gluck!"  Good choice on the twist rate anyway...Dont make another mistake and have that certain Brigade rifle builder in Texas put the barrel on.  You may never see the gun again.

Jake,  Join the crowd!  Sain and I have been hammering on Lemington for the last week on this point.  The stock isnt set up for scopes!!  Duh REMINGTON!  Are you reading this???

Get a strap on and save up for a new HS precision stock with an adjustable cheek rest.

Out

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 18:08:50 (ZULU)

Anyone know if the Remington Custom Shop will sell POlice RIfles with a decent HS Precision stock already on it?

Out here

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 18:11:13 (ZULU)

I Just got back from a range trip 10 minutes ago where I use an Eagle cheek pack.  It didn't slip 1CM for 40 rounds (8 groups) in the pouring ass rain.  I will also tell ya that it doesn't swell up when soaked, and really doesn't hold much water.

Lots of guys glue or tape pieces of sleep pad or whatever on the stock but I don't really like the look, and if you're not careful with your placement, getting the bolt out could be a real bitch.

LAPUA UPDATE:

Tried 210M's, CCI BR-2's and WLR in some once fired, neck sized lapua today.  Load was Lapua once fired/primer of choice/44.0gr Varget/175 SMK loaded to 2.825".  Groups are still larger than with Black Hills or Winchester brass. Flyers was the word of the day today. All I can attribute it to is there being less case capacity.  I think I'm wasting my time until I get a chrono.  I did see that the BR-2's produced the most consitent groups in the high .8" range CTC.  That's a change from their performance with BH and WIN brass at 44gr Varget, but when the same cases are loaded up to 45gr, the CCI's performed almost identicle.  Wonder if it's a load density thing with them?  Funny how something so small makes that much of a difference.

FatBoy...

Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
I've laughed, I've cried, I've learned how to cook cat...., - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 18:20:11 (ZULU)

I saw a factory Rem 700P, with a 20" fluted barrel, all in a beautiful McMillan A2 stock with a adjustable cheek piece (is that the A4??)... plus a very nice adjustable match butt stock (not adjustable for LOP)... only $2,100.

Problem is you could have it done yourself, for about $600 less, and with a better barrel.  I can't see spending $2,100 on a flash rifle, with an $18 barrel!

'lito

CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Spring has sprung - Da creek has riz... I wonder where dem Kitties is? , - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 18:23:15 (ZULU)

Don't put anything semi-permanent on the stock unless you want to run your cleaning rod in from the muzzle. And forget about removing the bolt if you attach anything too far forward.

jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 18:35:26 (ZULU)

Will low or ultra low rings work? The M3 is a slim scope.

dk <bohica999@hotmail.com>
Florida, - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 18:44:28 (ZULU)

Dennis Muldrew <dmuldrew@swbell.net>
OP, KS, USA - Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 20:58:22 (ZULU)

Out

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 21:45:48 (ZULU)

Out again

Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 21:48:28 (ZULU)