Sniper Country Duty Roster

Sniper Country Duty Roster

March 2000

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Hi all,

With the detail Dave Croyle sent me (JT, his included later stuff, so I just used that - but thanks for yours as well) I have now rebuilt most of the Roster. From all these XXX's above to the next such in Ken's message is the missing detail - the rest will go to the archives. Other doing some extended cutting and pasting (the detail I got was in the Reverse order) and placing the lines between each post I did no other editing as you people will see. Hopefully I did not lose anything in bringing it across.

If anybody has any of the detail still missing (fortunately doesn't seem too much) please email it to me. Same applies if anybody notices that I lost something in switching it around again.

Hope that, between Ken and myself we can get another procedure in place that will minimise the loss should this happen again. Ken has already been doing a lot on his side.

Marius Ferreira
Webmaster
March 04, 2000

Keith and Lito' Could that be some of that stuff Billy had deactivated and
someone has rebuilt it?
Probably just didn't get it reseated right. There was some 30-06 going
around with LC match
brass that manuf had deactived (unloaded) and then reloaded again with the
same components
to satisfy Bill's leftist political agenda.

Bill; in Clearwater. There is no excuse for luck. There are probably
officers at the bottom of the
swamp down there that might not have been so lucky. Maybe an Elvis Suit
would be more
appropriate in a City enviorment than a Ghilly suit but I figure them
dopers are gonna catch on
right away if they see you in them blues. They can get lucky too. I'm sure
you know you area
and business quite well. In that particular trade there are those who do
take a dim view of
things like being overheard.
I'm sure you have plenty back up. A Ghilly suit is real noticable on at a
bus stop anyway and you
can't get a date in one to save your life.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 01:13:43 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)

sorry to strart the DMR thread again.I have an exceptionaly accurate M1A,
.75 min. consistant.I
would love to give it the DMR treatment,don't want to wait forever on a
stock,anyone know
where I can find one.Possibly a correct scope mount.And is it true the
Marines are welding the
scope mount on?Not to keen on welding on my SA reciever.
Thanks in advance.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony W. <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 01:53:38 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.26.5.8)

I am in Northern California and looking for a place to learn to shoot my
AR-15 well. I was Navy
for 8 years and most of us never train with weapons. We pick them up every
six months, sit
through a 10 minute safety brief, and then get shooting tips for another 10
until we can pass
the qual again. Minimum rounds expended.

Does anyone know a good school/training center in Nor Cal or at least a
great shooting coach
who can work me into his schedule. Same for my pistol, but my rifle
shooting is worse. 18"
groups at 100 yards and I seem to be wasting more ammo. Yes I read, but am
still not catching
on.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions,

-Steve
Davis <slhoenig@yahoo.com>
Sacramento, CA, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 04:46:43 (ZULU) (your
host address: 169.237.14.94)

Questions about a Bushnell Sentry II.

I found a scope and stand this week end and was actuals surprised by the
performance of the
32X50 scoope. The field of view at 200 is very small and I was wondering if
a change of eye
peice to a lower power would be better? I can read large signs at two miles
and more but back
where I will be useing it for CMP it's tight. And who would have shuch
items. I'm going to start
with some camara shops that deal in bird watching equipment but any other
advice is welcome.
It came on a Freeland stand and being way impressed by the high end
equipment used by some
shooters I was sure I would never be able to afford the entry fee and food
too. But this has
change every thing and I think I saved a ton of $ also.

This scope is a lot better than any of the newer Bushnell stuff I looked at
the rest of the show,
also most of the stuff at $300 + was actualy no better butt for a little
more field of view. What
would be some history on this unit? Why is the calarity so much better.

It looks old and seasoned but for under a $100 I could not pass this set
up. The stand cleaned
up well but it could be improved with a few new parts, any tips here would
be great. Your
$1000 Kowa it's not but hey if it pulls me another 25 points in each of the
slow positions I will
by the happy camper.

Thanks to all, Scott and Pablito as always, thanks for the tips.

MJ
MJ <montereyjack@kmenterprises.com>
Monterey Bay, The Left Coastto To, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at
04:54:59 (ZULU) (your Wedt address:
165.236.189.200)

Urban Camoflauge -

I would think that you want to be able to blend in with the surroundings.
For open land you
want to look like a bush, a patch of grass, or something immobile, so a
ghillie that looks like
Chewbacca is in order. For a field of corn stubble, it may actually look
like a blond Chewbacca.

(Hold on. I'm going somewhere with this.)

For the urban environment, I would think you also want something
inconspicuous. While bushes
might seem a good idea, most city bushes are scraggly and you will have a
certain attraction to
large dogs who want to "water the daisies". The latter is a definite
disadvantage. A pile of
bricks or concrete rubble might be the thing, but tying 100+ bricks onto
your suit can make it
heavy and they will rattle when you move.

I think the way to go would something mobile, like a wino, a druggie, or a
small van (for those
of us who eat too much pizza). See Tom Clancy's "Without Remorse" for what
I am thinking of.
I know the action isn't very accurate, but it makes an enjoyable read
anyway.

As far as the type of woman attracted by wearing a ghillie, they are
probably the type with hair
on their backs. Is that the attraction to the sheepies that seems to pop up
here from time to
time?

Ciao
Karl
Karl <dahm0030@tc.umn.edu>
Damn Cold, Mn, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 15:58:18 (ZULU) (your
host address: 134.84.148.151)

I'd like to buy a spotting scope like the M49 that was used in the late
60's. Please email me if
you know the manufacturer and commercial model number. Thanks.
sven <svenska50@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 18:52:03 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.174.99.183)

ANY BODY OUTTHERE WHO CAN MAHE A GOOD DESERT GHILLIE?
BOBBY HALLOWAY <BOBBYHALLO@YAHOO.COM>
SYRACUSE , NEW YORK, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 18:47:48 (ZULU)
(your host address:
198.36.25.180)

This goes into the "Ripleys Believe it or Not Firearms Control" category:
I'm just filling out my "Application for License for Acquisition/Possesion"
(replaces the FAC) and
came to this part:

Section B-During the past two years have you experienced a:
1) divorce, separation, or breakdown of a significant relationship?
2) major failure in school, loss of job, or bankruptcy?
If Yes, provide details.

You also have to have the application signed by:
per schedule 1-Your current spouse/common law partner with whom you are
living

and/or

per schedule 2-any spouse or person of the same or opposite sex with whom
you have lived in a
conjugal relationship for three months or more during the two years prior
to this application
stating: "I am aware of the applicant's request for a license to aquire a
firearm or cross-bow. I
know that I may raise any saftey concerns that I have about it by
contacting the Chief Firearms
Officer at 1-800-731-4000"

All this, and more, so I can keep my Rem700

TonyM <bcoyrecce@hotmail.com>
BC, Canada - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 19:00:11 (ZULU) (your host
address: 207.102.80.125)

Gentlem: Thank you for presenting the sniper history and such a
professional site. Many surly
will not understand the material available here; those who would condem it
are lacking in
education; those who would misuse the information found here are
un-American.

I came across this site while searching long range shooting and was very
please to find the
"Long White Feather" history here.

Rest Well,

Reginald
Reginald <ratkins@trib.com>
Casper, WY, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 19:06:54 (ZULU) (your host
address: 12.10.158.99)

Remington Model 700 VS-VS/LH (Heavy Barrel, Varmint Synthetic)

For all interested parties. As of noon today, Remington's consumer rep
assured me the Varmint
Synthetic, available in both left and right hand, 700 short actions, has
currently completed its
January/February production run and is presently being shipped to dealers
nationwide.
Furthermore, there are no plans to discontinue this model, contrary to
rumors which have
circulated conflicting information.

Benoist, Keith <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 19:42:46 (ZULU) (your
host address:
207.174.108.120)

I finally broke down and bought a stoney point OAL and comparator.
Interesting to note that I
measured out 2.910 OAL to the lands using a 168gr A-Max. I guess Remington
plays it safe.
Anyway, I loaded up a batch of 168 a-max seated to my lands ogive
measurement minus .030.
The charge was 43.5 gr Varget and group size was .7. Velocity was 2671 Avg.
I'm
experimenting with the A-Max. I usually shoot .5 - .6 with my 168gr MK
load. Anyone else try
the A-Max?
Breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 20:30:35 (ZULU) (your host address:
12.3.204.222)

Mark: I would think a traditional G suit would stick out like a sore thumb
in most cities. Is this a
city like NY, with very little vegetation? If so, things like rags and
trash bags would be less likely
to attract attention.
Karl: Bums are often robbed. Such a disguise seems ideal, but it would
present serious risk,
even more so if Mark were lying down--appearing to be passed out.
George <none@nospam.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 22:34:57 (ZULU) (your host address:
192.216.6.51)

Breakpoint, the A-max is a well balance nice shooting bullet however it has
it's problems. The
early issue ones were a bit too ambitious in the long pointed snout. By the
time the bullet
contacts the rifling it's off toward Jones in a lot of rifles. If you seat
it out it won't go in the
short magazine of the short action guns. Later on without much fanfare they
changed the nose
and rounded the point so that it shoots much easier and more accurate.
I suspect the ballastics were altered also but haven't looked to see if
they have changed them in
their literature. A-max bullets are a bit thin skinned for large game but
work pretty well up to
deer size.
As a sniper round they are hard to beat if stopping the target is the
objective. A bit less
accurate than Sierra Match Kings but devistatinng in the meat department.
IF you have a long
action winchester or Savage or other good gun the old bullets would do fine
but I don't think
they are on the market anymore.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 22:50:25 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)

Does anyone know where i can get a good deal on the Federal Match 175gr
ammo in .308?
I am currently paying about $1 a round and it is getting old, and fast.
I am open to people with ffl's willing to make deals, dealers, or mail
order/ internet sources.
Please help!

Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
san jo, rainafornia, USA - Wednesday, March 01, 2000 at 23:58:03 (ZULU)
(your host address:
209.247.149.130)

Jeff, if you're getting your ammo from a local shop then try 1) other local
shops, and challenge
them to beat the price you're getting now, 2) ammoman.com (78 cents/rd plus
shipping, case
price) or other online dealers, and 3) Hoplite (as listed recently as a
source for the 168gr
Federal match ammo.) If switching brands is an option, the Black Hills
175gr match load (moly)
can be had locally for about 85 cents/rd. (case price including tax) or you
can order the
non-moly for about 73 cents/rd through IBA (case price, but you'd also pay
shipping.)

Often you can get a better price by volume, which can be done by teaming up
with other folks
who each want a case or more of the same fodder.

A few weeks ago when I was at the gun show atthe Fairgrounds, the dealer
there had the
Federal 175 match for something like $21/20. Ouch! Not a good deal.

Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
No rain today in San Jose, eh?, CA, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at
00:34:29 (ZULU) (your host address:
32.97.110.67)

Thanks Dave,
yeah, i almost called in 'sick' today so i could go play outside.
I will give ammoman a try, it sounds like a good deal but i will definately
keep my eyes open.
Plus, if i buy out of state i dont get to pay tax!
If anyone in the San Jose area plans on buying some of the Federal match
.308 in 175 let me
know cause it would be interesting to see what deal we could get.
Later.
Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
San jo, sunnyfornia, today anyway, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at
01:03:02 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.247.149.130)

Breakpoint: if that's the only load you've tried with the A-MAX's so far,
I'd have to say that
you're on the right track here. Fine tune your charge weights and seating
depth a little and you
may improve enough on the load to match the performance of the MK's .

Each gun is different and your gun may or may, or, may not, exceed the
performance of the
Sierra bullet. Only time and a little experimenting will tell for sure.

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 01:11:05 (ZULU) (your
host address: 142.177.88.126)

Federal Ammo
For decent to good pricing on a variety of ammo youmight try Eric over at:
http://www.ammoman.com/
I have found his prices to be less then I can find locally here, plus he
has a section online of
odd lots. You can often pick up tracers or blanks at a greatprice.

The price you see is the price you pay. No $10 shipping plus $13 HAZMAT
fees or anything like
that. I have used him several times for cases of ammo and service has been
fine (no problems
or surprises).

You just have to mail, fax, or e-mail a copy of your ID to them first.
Orders are filled within 24
hours most of the time.

500 rounds of Gold Medal Match BTHP, 175Gr is $389. No tax, no shipping.
-Steve
-Steve <slhoenig@ucdavis.edu>
CA, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 03:25:00 (ZULU) (your host address:
169.237.13.103)

Are most of you gents still single staging your ammo? I've been
experimenting with my Dillon
RL-550 (loading 175 Sierra's with Accurate 2015, a short cut extruded
propellant) and I can't
see any difference in group size (average .5 to .7 at 100 meters)in my .308
M700 Police
compared to the same ammo loaded single stage on my RockChucker. Time spent
at the loading
bench is cut down considerably. I'm convinced. So Long RCBS.
dan <danr@acnet.net>
Deep South, Texas, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 04:33:27 (ZULU) (your
host address: 170.76.42.93)

dan:

What accuracy does the Dillon give for powder loading? I've hear, including
Dillon's own
advertising of their match team, that match grade rounds can be had, but
powder loading +/- .5
grains seems like a rough, not match, load.

I load 300 win mag with the RCBS digital setup and love it, plus it
provides complete accuracy.
(complete meaning as good as I can shoot it, sub MOA)

A good autoloader would make things sweet, but I doubt the accuracy of a
progressive press.

All:
Can anyone recommend a good barrel wizard that can make a decent Reminton
700 Sendero
barrel for 300 win mag? Plenty out there, but who has fast turn-around
times, match accuracy,
and a fair price?

Thanx.

Shootin' through the thin air!

Hank <ninesoft2@earthlin.net>
Denver, CO, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 05:23:32 (ZULU) (your host
address: 38.27.84.227)

Amen !! Let's hear it for Dillon !! Have been loading 155 Amax's, 173
mil-match, and 175 Sierra
MKs for over 3 years on it with same or better results as Dan in TX . Of
course I am still using
the "evil" moly(won't EVEN start that again!! Moly DOES WORK !!) but with
Forster dies haven't
seen any degradation of accuracy (1/2 MOA at 200 yds, thats in 3 different
rifles) and my
loading time has been cut by 2/3's....at least. It does help to use Norma
or Lapua or IMI brass.
Federal brass just doesn't last. I do spend some time culling some of the
173's but overall the
Dillon (550B) has worked well. I like Varget but it doesn't meter as well
as BLC-2.

On another note, a few weeks back, Torsten mentioned a device he makes...
"recoil guide" for
pistols. Gotta admit it works well, even in my "Old Sig 220", thanks T !!!!
Now if I could get
some work done on the "jerk" behind the trigger I might get some decent
groups at 1,000...then
again...if you can't practice that far out, you can't get better !! With
that said, any way to
practice at 500 for 1,000 ?
OUT HERE
Will <rogue308@mindspring.com>
Deep, South, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 05:41:17 (ZULU) (your host
address: 199.174.128.238)

Anyone know anything about BSA rifle scopes? I read something about them
awhile ago and
they sound decent even though they are cheap. And they have to be better
than tasco even
though they are slowly getting better.

And anyonehave any ideas on taking a 270 win andmoving the shoulder foward
so that there is
a neck length of .270" and a 40 degree shoulder.
Jed <clampet@writeme.com>
blain, pa, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 08:45:35 (ZULU) (your host
address: 192.156.68.35)

nice site, i have som fotos for you write me you wont be sory

sealsniper51@hotmail.com
Nick "sealsniper" kirkegaard <sealsniper51@hotmail.com>
cophagen, cophagen, Denmark - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 11:09:36 (ZULU)
(your host address:
195.181.216.180)

Hank-I've been loading match .223 on a Dillon for a year now, and the
Dillon powder measure is
just as consistant as either my RCBS or my Redding "Benchrest" measures.
I've a second Dillon
measure on the .45 conversion and it, too, stays within +or- .2 grain.
Fifteen years of
reloading, and my Rockchucker is now reserved for the calibers for which I
don't have Dillon
conversions. My .2 of a grain worth.
Celt <dand@foggfiller.com>
USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 12:26:54 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.163.7.233)

I have a 550 Dillon and load all my 223 stuff on it with excellent
results!! I tried the 308s but I
was getting to much bullet and neck run out so I quit using it for the
308s. I tried Dillon dies
and the Redding BR dies but it stayed the same. I read where the Palma team
loads all their
ammo on the 550s so I know they work. I used Varget powder and it didn't
seem to meter to
bad I may have to try it again.

Has any one tried the new Lica 800s yet??
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 14:53:56 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.130)

I just called SWFA and they are expecting the Leica 800 rangefinder within
the next 2-3 weeks.
I have heard that before, but I hope it is reality this time. I ordered
mine back in early
December.

Michael
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
San Jose, CA, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 15:31:12 (ZULU) (your host
address: 63.192.208.6)

A PISTOL ISSUE

FYI everyone. Yesterday I attempted to ship two pistols VIA FEDEX. The
reason? UPS now has a
$30 surcharge, PER FIREARM, added to their already inflated shipping costs.
In my case, this
would have come to about $75, if not more, to ship two firearms
cross-country to my brother.
Looking for an alternative, I called FEDEX to see if they shipped same.
Yes, I was told. Any
special conditions I have to meet, I asked. Same as anyone else, they said.
FFLs on both ends,
ship to dealers only. Fine. I did all the legwork, had an FFL sent to a
dealer here, paid the
transfer fee ($10), then took the two pistols to FEDEX. Once there, as
always, the rules
changed. FEDEX essentially refused to ship two pistols, "Unless they can be
disabled prior to
shipping." (This is a FEDEX policy, which, by the way, they do not bother
to notify you of if you
call the FEDEX 800 customer service number). Inquiries into the nature of
the definition of
"disabled", at the FEDEX counter varied. Finally a phone call was made to
an upper level
manager, whose opinion was that, "some part of the pistol has to be
removed, and shipped
separately." The wolf is at the door, people.
Be forewarned, brothers and sisters. I am struck by the irony of a
government which trains its
young men, and these days women, in the skills of marksmenship, yet
considers the previous
generation of those who have been similarly trained to be de facto enemies
of the state, simply
because they choose to pursue a love for something which that same
government inspired.
Benoist, Keith E. <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 16:09:01 (ZULU) (your
host address: 207.174.108.14)

The A-Max's I have are recently purchased from Midway. They are the pointed
- not the
rounded ones, and will no way ever fit in my DM magazine. If I seated these
to SAAMI or mag
length, it would place the ogive too far away. That's OK though as my
intention was to load
singly, experiment and see if they would fly better than the MK. My real
issue is with Remington
and the 700P throat. Anyway, so far the MK is winning out but I just
started. Besides, I'm having
too much fun to give up!
breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 16:18:22 (ZULU) (your host address:
12.3.204.222)

Have any depts started using the Hornady A-max instead of the standard 168
hpbt. I saw the
work up Hornady did on these and seems you don't have to worry about over
penetration as
much.
Mike <Mikeroyexc@aol.com>
Florence, Mt, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 16:45:33 (ZULU) (your host
address: 205.188.193.156)

I have just bought a SR25 Match and I am planning on putting a Nightforce
scope on it. Here is
the qustion, were can I get proper instruction on hitting the broad side of
a barn? Okay, what I
really am after is a shooting school that will train me in the basics of
getting the most out of
the Stoner. I am not a "sniper" or a LE type.

I am just a regular guy that likes to shot at far away objects. I live in
Pennsylvania and would
be willing to travel for the right program. If there is a perfect school it
should teach me to
shoot and not treat me like a five year old with a expensive toy. I think
you guy's (gals) know
what I am refering to.

Thanks for your help,
Gregory Fields
Gregory Fields <greg.fields@mrigroup.com>
Lancaster, PA, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 16:59:46 (ZULU) (your host
address: 208.170.180.90)

Gregory, to hit the side of a barn, every time, GO INSIDE THE BARN, then
shoot. There ya go,
problem solved. Sorry, couldn't resist. Sounds like a nice set-up. Front
sight, squeeze the
trigger. Repeat.

Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
Portland, Or, USA - Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 17:19:12 (ZULU) (your host
address: 209.156.133.2)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

ALL - HAD A MAJOR POWER OUTAGE HERE IN INDEPENDENT HILL. MACHINES
DIED WHEN THE UNINTERRUPTABLE POWER SUPPLIES GAVE UP THEIR LIFE AFTER
ABOUT 1.5 HOURS. ANYHOW THE DATA DISK IN THE WEB SERVER GOT HIT....
AFTER MUCH THINKING, PRAYING, RECOVERY DISKS, ETC. HERE'S WHATS RUNNING.... COULD HAVE BEEN ALOT WORSE I GUESS..

SOME OF THE LAST POSTS IN THE ROSTER WERE LOST.... SORRY ABOUT THAT...

MARIUS - LEAVE THIS ENTRY IN THE ROSTER AS A MARKER......... SO WE CAN SLOWLY RESONSTRUCT IT...

KEN :(
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XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 02:22:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Sorry about the Roster folks but Ken did a HELL of a job getting even this much back!!! Hopefully Marius has more of the Roster saved and we can rebuild from there!

Sarge for the Sniper Country Staff

Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 03:13:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.245.243.106)

Gentlemen ( I use that term very loosely),

Someone explain how you use the Metric cam on an 3.5x10 M3 at ranges measured in yards. The windage 1/2 min. adjustments are giving me fits also, since I am so used to 1/4 min. clicks, but I can handle it. All I can figure to do is just subtract elevation clicks from the cam setting. Is it just a shoot and see thing? Here's a for instance, while shooting at 700 yds., I have to be three clicks below the 700 mark on the M3. Any hints? Anyone? Anyone?

thanks,

John R.
John R. <jrr051468@aol.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 03:49:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.23)

Scopes:

I have a question re: scopes and rings for the Savage 10FP I'm buying. I'm planning on shooting it at ranges under 600yds. at highpower matches and silhouette comps. My local range requires a scope to be set at 6 power for silhouette. I would like any advice on the best scope for the money. I have about $350 to spend. I'd like to know if a fixed power 6X would be OK for ranges to 600yds. or if a variable power is the way to go?

thanks
paul
Paul <mb_joe@yahoo.com>
woodside, ca, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 04:12:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.23.7.57)

SC Staff.. you should contact anyone who hasnt loaded the page yet, so they can retrieve the roster from their cache.
George <none@nospam.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 04:37:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.216.240.22)
John R. Sounds like that scope is screwed up. I'll take it off your hands for 50 bucks.

Just kidding..

Think about it..700 yards = 630 meters give or take a few meters. (Everyone whistle the theme song from jeapardy while John thinks about this.)

Out
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 05:18:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.171)

Anybody that has got any of the details that we've lost please email it to me in order for me to get it back in here, or at least the archives.

More from me later.

Marius
Webmaster
Marius Ferreira <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
RSA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 07:41:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 196.25.27.66)

Whoa! Fastest loading roster ever!

I am looking for some good reading on sniper team tactics & communication, on the internet or in print. Anything related to hand signals, map symbols, SOP's for covering the AO while one member rests, non-verbal communication while on final stalk, etc. If you could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. I have thoroughly read and re-read Plaster's Ultimate Sniper, and have learned much, but am looking for even more. Especially from all of the military men and women out there, as it seems that you would have the most experience with this (as opposed to the average long-range target shooter). Also, how important are these kind of things in competition, say, SMTC events? I read the accounts in the archives and they mostly talk about the events and the shooting aspect, but not the team aspect...any insight would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Brian

Brian Snider <bolt_308@yahoo.com>
OR, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 10:07:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.36.35.97)

Ken & Marius,

I note that you guys had a little problem tonight.

Luckily I had surfed SC on another browser before I started this one.

Check your emails. By going offline and forcing a non-connect refresh - I was able to retrieve all text for the current roster page back to somewhere around 13:00 yesterday afternoon. After that fraid I cant help ya.

I know how power failures and disk crashes can be. :-(

Hope this helps,
JT - Webmaster for Norcal Precision & Tactical Intervention <tenarius@memorableplaces.com>
CCCPalifornia, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 10:38:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.156.137.61)

JT: thanks for the info and cuts of the roster. If you could pull up that cached copy again - and view the source - cut that and mail it - would be alot quicker to restore the roster from pieces.

Hey - normally power outages aren't a problem. We have about 1.5 hours of unattended reserve power. After that, if someone is on site - the generator will carry us until Saudi Arabia freezes over.

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 12:29:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Buying a Stoner SR25, I am planning on putting a Nightforce NSX series scope on it. Now the question, where is a proper training facility to learn how to make the long shot? I would like to find a school close by, but i will travel a bit if needed.
The school should treat me like an adult and not like a child with a high priced toy. I think you guys(gals) know what I mean. I am not a "sniper" wannabee nor am I a L.E.O. Any help you all can provide is welcome. Thanks, Gregory Fields

Gregory Fields <greg.fields@mrigroup.com>
Lancaster, PA, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 13:45:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.170.180.100)

Does Remington still make the M700vs in 20inch short barrel? I know that they came back out with the M700vs in the 26inch barrel.
Ross <pwc464@aol.com>
Warrenton , Va, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:06:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.27)

I guess this got lost in the mess. We were talking A-Max bullets. I was wondering in any of the LE agencies are going to the 168s A-Max loaded stuff that Hornady puts out. It looks like it would solve the over penetration of the 168 HPBT.
Mike <Mikeroyexc@aol.com>
Florence , Mt, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:26:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.212)

Sorry........... don't know what happened I only clicked once.
Mike <Mikeroyexc@aol.com>
Florence, Mt, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:29:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.212)

Hey Guys,

Sorry to drag this down to politics again. I have never posted here before, but have kept up with the site for a long time. I decided to post this because I needed to vent and I think most of the people here share the same views that I have.

Did anyone catch the debate on CNN last night between the 3 GOP candidates? Talk about disgusting! Alan Keyes stood proud even in the face of ridiculous and irrelevant questioning by the panel. One of the members even tried to drag him down into a racial debate by asking him what he thought the four cops that were acquitted for killing that African man in NYC. Ambassador Keyes would not stoop to their level, however and simply said that he was not qualified to answer - that unless someone was present in the court room for the entire trial and had all of the facts of the case it was not their business to question the decision of the jury. The panelist then pushed harder, hoping to get SOME reaction out of Keyes by saying that at least 19 hits was excessive. The Ambasador simply said that the number was irrelevant, and again he was not there. He went on to say that our LE officers are out there doing a very difficult job, and we should stand by them. They should get the same fair treatment that any of the rest of America would expect!! I just cannot say enought about Alan Keyes and how impressed I was with his character. When he had something to say about one of the other candidates - he looked them directly in the eye and said it. He made mention of the obvious, disgusting, and unamerican (my words) media blackout on his campaign but did not seem bitter about it. One panelist even said (and I don't remember the exact wording) "Given the fact that you are probably not going to win, which of these other two candidates would you endorse?" What the hell is that? Keyes took it in stride. They asked him almost no relevant questions about campaign issues - it was almost like he is not even running. It was sickening.

George Bush Jr. meanwhile endorsed the development of so called "smart gun" technology and said he hopes that we are headed that direction. I guess that makes one of us. He also apologized for giving a speech at Bob Jones University and said that he regreted that he did not speak out against the "anti-catholic" view there. Come on. I can tell you that Bob Jones U is no more anti-catholic than a Republican is "anti-democrat". They may have different beliefs and convictions, may not agree with what each other say, and they may express those disagreements publicly but that does not make them "anti" anything! They are not out there killing catholics in an effort to wipe them all off of the face of the earth. I am very dissapointed in Gov. Bush for not having the balls to simply stand up and say "Look, I don't agree with all of the views expressed at Bob Jones. However, I am proud that my campaign stopped there. I'm proud that I had the opportunity to give that speech." Show some backbone Governor. Stand up for your rights.

The good Senator did not even have the courtesy to show up in person for this debate. He was present on a big screen TV via sattelite. He spoke poorly, stumbled over his own words, and when he did manage to put together a cohesive sentence it was nothing but pure indirect issue dodging self promoting Clintonese. Pathetic. By the way Senator, who the hell are you to tell me as a taxpayer that I cannot spend as much of my hard earned after tax money as I damn well please promoting the candidate of my conviction? Limits on contributions from individuals? This was still the home of the free last time I checked - but the folks in Washington are working on that aren't they. I don't see anyone trying to limit how much I can contribute to any other cause!!

Again, I apologize for the length and for going back to politics. Like I said though, I had to vent somewhere. This a great site and I have learned a lot here. Keep up the good work guys.
JHall <jhall@family-net.net>
Decatur, IL, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 15:53:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.0.57.16)

Does anyone have any experience with the new winchester mod 70 "stealth" rifles? Any help, stories, good or bad are greatly apreciated. Thanks, happy shooting.
Mike <mmbackpacker@aol.com>
yuma, az, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 16:05:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.195.192)

Gooch,

Can you chew bubble gum too? Just kiddin'. Seriously though, I've always been issued standard duplex tactical on my dept. rifles. I've had a rifle built and thanks to advice from Jerry Rice, it now shoots great (yesterday, here in South MS, 2.5" at 600 with GM). I recently put a 3.5x10 M3 Mil-Dot on it and the different adj. are taking some getting used to. I have no problem ranging using the mil-dot system, it was just that I figured that the meters setting would be closer to the yard range than it was. I had to move back to 750 to get on paper with one ck under the 700M setting, shooting high. Lot to learn, shall keep you updated...

Mike,

What over penetration problems? Surely you don't mean with the Sierra HPBT 168 GM load. Unless there is a wide periphrial (sp?) hit, over penetration is a problem I haven't seen or heard anyone complain about. The complaints are deflection that occurs when shooting through barriers such as glass or thin cover. I haven't found the A-Max to be as accurate as Sierras in any case. Could be just me though...

Anyone have a VA Beach Police Sniper patch they would part with? After Gunny's school down here in Waynesboro MS last year, they weren't available.

Good Hunting,

John R.
John R. <jrr051468@aol.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 16:57:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.174)

John R. Just rememeber that a fast way to convert meters to yards is to add 10% to the meter distance. 100 meters = 110 yards, 500 meters = 550 yards etc.

Gooch
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 17:09:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.168)

Gunny Carlos Hathcock

Just curious. Is anyone aware if there are any translated, published accounts of NVA or VC counter sniper teams who operated against Hathcock? I know there were such teams, but I'm wondering if any of the former authored their own accounts, and if so, are they available? It would be interesting, I should think, to learn what the former enemy thought of the man who was digging so many of them.

Thanks

Benoist, Keith E. <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 17:26:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.45.211.163)

Well i got my tasco 10x42ss and got it mounted and zeroed for 100, but now i need some help.
I read the 'instructions' (if you could call them that) and have some questions about adjusting the eyepiece.
I am sitting here at work and do not have the manual, and i do not know the correct terms for stuff, so please excuse my ignorance.
I adjusted the rearmost adjuster on the eyepiece to get the mil dots in focus and noticed there is a large amount of adjustment where the mil dots seem to be perfectly focused. The manual says to adjust it all the way clockwise, then start backing it off until the dots come into focus, dont turn it any further. This is the proper adjustment, according to the scrap of paper.
The scope also has another adjustment a little forward of this and it is marked 10,25,50,100,and so on to 500, then it has a little infinity symbol. This seems pretty straight forward, if i am shooting at 500m i adjust the ring to 500.
However, when i was peering down range and would move my head, the cross hairs would move on the target. I was looking about 300m down range and i could get the reticle to move about a foot!
Have i adjusted the scope wrong? Am i a grommet? Is the front deflector shield not fully charged with ion particles?
where was i?........ oh yeah.
This seems like a huge margin of error if i cannot get my eyeball in exactly the same spot from shot to shot. Any assistance would be helpfull, and if anyone knows where i could get a detailed description and explanation of these adjustments i would be most gratefull.
Ps, if anyone will be at the sac match on sunday i will be there early to see if i can syphen some knowledge on this subject.
Thanks!

Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
San Jo, nice and sunny so farifornia, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 17:52:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.247.149.130)

*** NOTICE ***

It seems as if we've got basically everything back. The latest post I've got now is that for "Thursday, March 02, 2000 at 17:19:12", going right back to the beginning.

So please, those who still come up with something, if it is not later than this, don't send - we've got it. Thanks for the help - now I just need some time to actually get that into the format to post again. It is in the Reverse Roster format, so I'll have to do a bit of cutting and pasting to get it back in the normal format as well. If not tonight, most definately tomorrow night (my time)

On a more personal note, I am personally also only recovering now from losing my main 20G hard drive just over two weeks ago. Still finding small things here and there that need to be installed, tweaked, changed etc. Just some things from work and then I'll be going strong again - and hopefully the site as well, which have been too negledted lately.

More about that later.

Marius

*** NOTICE ***
Marius Ferreira <mferreira@intekom.co.za>
RSA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 18:45:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 155.239.198.225)

jhall,
Right on. - It is a shame that the Press takes more pride in forming our opinions than informing us as a people. You are right, Keyes is kept from us as if they are afraid of him...
Grogan <reptech@televar.com>
Republic, WA, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 18:49:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.8.144.158)

RE: yards and meters.
for me fastes way to get yard and meter conversion:
meters=0.9 x yards
yards=1.1*meters
HK <HenryK@marvineng.com>
LA, CA, USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 19:04:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.165.39.11)

Guys,
I'm looking for anything I can find on the Steyr SSG69 sharpshooters rifle. Books , articles , links , parts/accessory sources etc. Also interested to hear from anyone using one. How do you like it , what you dislike etc. I just managed to get my butt scratchers on one and will hopefully be fitting it with an M1LR or M3LR.
Thanks,
Don
Don <tdfarmer@concentric.net>
USA - Friday, March 03, 2000 at 22:03:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.83.80.31)

Hi,
I am the creator of the Long Range Shooting tutorials/games that was posted here a few weeks ago. I have received alot of helpful input and
comments from people on this bulletin board. I just finished an advanced level in which you can engage moving targets using the ambush method. Take a look at it and tell me what you think. Due to popular demand I am working on a greatly expanded version of these tutorials/games which will be available on a CD. You won't have to connect to the internet, wait for it to download or worry about a plug-in. I can't make them any larger than they are now for the web...just too long a download time. As soon the CD is finished I will post the information on the web site.
Thanks again,
Karin Christensen
Karin Christensen <karinc@ccosmo.net>
Murrieta, CA, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 01:48:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.67.161.205)

Jeff. Here is the procedure adjusting your scope. The first step is to adjust the reticle. Follow the procedure as stated. Do not cut corners. This is the procedure for a Leupold but the idea is the same. Your eyepiece doesn't lock down but its the same deal.

? Look at a distant object (around 300 yards away) and allow your eyes to become focused on it. Quickly look through the scope at the sky or a blank wall and check to see if the reticle is immediately sharp and crisp. If it is, then no further adjustment is needed. If your eye has to re-focus on the reticle then proceed.

? Grasp the eyepiece and back it away from the lock-ring.

? Turn the eyepiece several turns so as to move at least 1/8". It will take this much change to achieve any measurable effect on the focus.

? Repeat step one. If the image is better, continue to turn the eyepiece in the same direction. If it is worse, turn the eyepiece the other way and repeat steps 1-3 until the image of the reticle is sharp and crisp immediately upon looking into the scope. Do this several times, taking the focus past the point of focus to ensure you have the clearest setting. Then lock up the eyepiece by screwing the lock-ring back to the eyepiece.

? Parallax is indicated by the apparent movement of the reticle to the target as the shooter moves his eye across the exit pupil of the scope. When the scope is correctly focused for a specific target, the image is precisely on the reticle plane, and no parallax is present if the reticle was focused properly.

? Many tactical scopes feature an adjustment for eliminating parallax. This adjustment is either an adjustment knob on the left of the scope (as viewed from the rear) or a ring on the objective lens housing. The purpose of this adjustment is to keep the target on the same focal plane as the reticle.

If your reticle isn't perfectly focused prior to adjusting the objective you will still have a little parallax when the target is sharp since the image of the reticle and the image of the target are still on different focal planes. If the target is crystal clear and you reticle still moves refocus your reticle a little until the movement goes away. DOn't touch the reticle adjustment again or you will start polishing a turd.

Remember, if you are moving your head around more than an inch or two you may see a little reticle movement even if everything is perfectly adjusted.

SOMEBODY put this in the Hot Tips/Cold SHots puleez!! THis is like the 10th time this has come up. Thankyuu..

Gooch

gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 01:58:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.154)

CANADA EXPORT BAN RESCINDED
-US authorities removed the export ban after they learned the 'missing' firearms weren't missing and in fact had not even left the US - so all existing permits have been renewed. The cause certain importers who import for LE agencies have open ended (and open numbered) permits to allow them to bring in firearms in at short notice throughout the year. Apparently Civil Servants on both sides panicked and the BAN came down with little thought or foresight!

Personal transfers are unaffected as they go through ATF and where not affected by the BAN

So no problems (phew!! my rifle is still in Jerry's shop)
and Brian we can still swap the pistols.

Denny - stock is on way I just got the check
email me if you want the barrel (it is in Jerry's shop)(I lost your email) He is in California as well so it might be easier?

Who ever emailed me about the HK91 it can't go to the US sorry!
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 02:46:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.129.118)

Karin'; Glad to have the news. Would sure be intrested in your expanded versions. Guys if you haven't tried these your missing a good time. Something to do on a Snow day! Lotsa good skill practice there! Karin's done a fine job on the program. You can learn and get better and quicker at Mil Dots there.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 05:42:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

Hi Guys,
Read the sniper country review on the White Feather ammunition. I called Talon Mfg. and they still make it, only they now call it Talon Match, exact same load, different name.
My question, how does this stuff compare to the Federal Gold Medal Match 175's. Did anybody out there give this a heads up test, or want to venture an opinion?
Thanks,
Dan Reever
Danny Reever <dreever@supernet.com>
Arendtsville, Pa, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 12:23:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.157.109.76)

'Sup guys,

Questions, questions...
Anyone have a source for the Lapua .308 match ammo? Secondly, I would like to get some feed back on some favorite tips/techniques for removing copper from barrels. After 3 hrs. of cleaning, I get to wondering... Bolt? Sarge? Master da-Gooch? Has anyone tried the Iosso bore paste yet? Results?

Keep'em touchin',

John R.
John R. <jrr051468@aol.com>
MS, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 14:35:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.204)

I hope everyone heard about Alan Keyes' body guard. He had a gun licence for one state, but was arrested when he landed via airplane in the communist land of New York. It sure seems as though the media is covering this up. I can't find any further info on it.

sean <macdelta1@webtv.net>
houston, tx, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 15:47:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.240.200.110)

Danny,

I have shot the Talon White Feather 175 ammo against the Federal 175 Match, and it stacks up real good. It is a bit hotter than the Federal though. Accuracy was super good out to 500yds. I have not had the chance to try it at 1000yds, yet.

Later,
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 15:49:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.57)

Sean...

That's nothin' new...
... even if you have a New Your State pistol permit, you will get a felony bust for having a handgun in New York City.
In a city of 7,000,000+, there are only 500 non-police carry permits.

But... Senator Edward Kennedy (Dem. Mass) seems to be able to get through New York with his bodyguard (who carrys a full auto weapon), with no problems???
Presidential candidates are supposed to have protection... but I guess that only applys to white guys, and Lefties...

No priveledges for the rich Democrats??? Gimme' a break!

Pablito.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 16:01:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.60)

Hey folks,
I am no expert at this copper solvent thing but its suprising how many folks dont know that the regular hoppes stuff doesnt take care of the copper, it only cleans out the powder residue,
I found some good and cheap stuff,
called Barnes copper solvent,
cost about 2.99 for a bit,
followed the instuctions and whammo it works like a charm,
I reccomend it,
just follow the instructions and make sure you swab your barrel with oil after using it as to stop the reaction of the Barnes,
this stuff was recommended to me by a fella that sells the high dollar stuff and says its better.
BTW
I appreciate all you guys out there who help us not in the know get the right answers thanks, its nice to come in here or hot tip and get answers.
SMB

SMB <mildot101@aol.com>
Land of OZ KS., USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 17:45:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.63.194.152)

SMB...

I don't know where you got your information about Hoppe's not removing copper... but, MAN, are you way off base.

You run a wet patch in a dirty barrel with Hoppes #9, and the green crap on the patch is COPPER!... you soak a barrel with #9, and the green crap is COPPER!

If you have a badly fouled barrel (from a 7 day trip to Storm Mountain), you can blug the barrel and let it soak for days (without the damage other chemicals cause), then just pour out the crap, and run a patch through it, and the barrel will be clean, without the rust or corrosion from the other agressive chemicals out there.

PLUS.........

It smells so great!!!

Pablito.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 18:46:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.60)

1) Thanks for the hints & tips about the problems this newbie was having with vertical stringing (I haven't tried any real distance shooting in over 10 years), it helped a great deal!
2) Bear with me if I get the terminology wrong but I'm looking now to buy a "stock sock" that I can use when shooting. I've heard of homemade varieties using leather bags filled with shot, socks filled with plastic beads, etc. Does anyone manufacture anything like this commercially? If so, whom?
3) I wanted a relatively inexpensive semi-auto for fun distance shooting (yes, I know just about any good bolt gun will easily outshoot most semi-autos). I ended up buying a Romak-3 (Romanian FPK Dragunov lookalike) in 7.62x54. Using 1977 Russian 147gr 'silvertip' ammo it shoots 1 MOA off the bench and I can consistently keep my shots inside an 18" circle at 600yds using the Russian PSO 4x scope. Others have also reported decent accuracy with this rifle. After reading about poor Dragunov accuracy at this site I must say I'm surprised that my rifle will shoot this well (especially considering my rusty skills and poor eyesight) and am at a loss to explain the performance discrepancies. Any ideas or comments???
Thanks again for all your help!...
Tom McClimans
Tom McClimans <tomac42@earthlink.net>
Caldwell, Idaho, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 19:15:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.13.113.1)

I saw a post regarding a "general" rule of thumb for ambient temperature differences moving your zero. It was on the lost part of the archives and it disappeared before I copied it down. Anyone remember what is was? and if it was for a .308?
Thanks-I want to go over my logs and check it out for myself to build up my rifles data card.
Mictac <Mictac@AOL.com>
USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 19:34:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.213)

Hey Pablo,
I am talking bout the Hoppes that comes with all the cheap cleaning kits, it is a powder solvent, I cleaned and cleaned with it but still copper fouled, so I bought the barnes ans 10 minutes later I was done
I just think it is good stuff and cheap.
there is also the hoppes which is the copper stuff, is there a diff?
I used the hoppes in my rifle (dont know if it was #9 or not) and found it to be great at pulling the black powder out but nada for the green,
I just thought the barnes was good stuff for the price,
but hey nothing brings back memories like the great smell of hoppes!!!
everytime I smell it I think of my itty bitty shooting days : )
adios
SMB
SMB <mildot101@aol.com>
Land of OZ KS., USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 19:54:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.63.194.180)

Anyone have any experience with the new Sigarms STR 970. I have yet to see one in person and was wondering if anyone has any personal reviews. I have owned numerous pistols by Sig but have no experience with there long gun line.Just wondering how they compare up to Rem. pss and similar models.
ad <adsjunkbox@mindspring.com>
al, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 22:13:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.134.65)

Anybody out there with a mechanical drawing of Rem's clipslot as used on their 40XC to allow loading with stripper clips?
I understand the Chandler's have such a drawing in DFA #1. I'd love to see a copy. Better yet, anyone out there with a rifle so configured in the Portland/Vancouver area? I'll buy you lunch if you'll let me examine your rifle & measure it. Thanks in advance,
Jim
Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
Portland, Or., USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 22:22:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.204.24)

Regular Hoppes #9, as you can buy now, does virtually nothing to remove copper. (Sorry, 'Lito, but it really doesn't...) Hoppes BR9, however, does an excellent, safe job of removing copper, and indeed can be safely left overnight in the bore, unlike some others (Sweets and S.C. Copper Remover coming to mind). Another excellent choice, my favorite in fact because it is faster than BR9, but not harsh like the others named, is Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber. It comes in a plastic bottle, unlike BR9, so if you knock the thing over, it's not time to call the EPA either.

Regular Hoppes #9 does a fine job on powder fouling, and removing paint from barrels and stuff (like an H-S Precision stock, or Leupold scope). I suppose the type of paint might be key here. Just don't expect it to turn the patches green (from copper).

Iosso bore paste works very well indeed. I keep it as part of my cleaning stuff, along with solvents, U.S. Arsenal patches (the best), a good bore guide with solvent port (nice to use when you have a bottle with a pour spout/tip thing), and Dewey coated rod.

See you northern Kalifornia fellers at the Long Range Tactical match tomorrow, Sunday 3/5. No sighters, no bullshit, don't get there late and expect us to watch you walk to the line. (If I'm late, I will regret this last part...)
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Radioactive, CA, USA - Saturday, March 04, 2000 at 23:38:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.162.49.128)

Pablito -

Varget. I think I saw a comment here a few days ago from you to the effect that Varget was just a bit slower than 4064. Can you confirm this for me? Unfortunately, none of my manuals show Varget. I really need to replace some of my older ones.

If Varget is slower than 4064, I'd like to work up a load for .30-06 Ackley Imp with the 155 Palmas. My manuals show a max load of 4064 at about 3000 fps with a 150 bullet in .30-06 and I'm hoping to get 3150-3200 with the AI.
Pat T <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 00:19:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)

Will...

I'm not about to start a pissin' contest over cleaning gook, but I've got a gallon plastic milk jug full of green patches on my cleaning bench, if you'd like me to send them C.O.D. so you can see them, just give me your address... and I just ran another wet patch through a new stainless barreled rifle I'm breaking in... and it came out GREEN... it's not the fastest, or the most aggressive solvent, but it doesn't damage the metal or the barrel, if you leave it in over night.
Lemme' know where to send the green patches :)

Pat Tidwell...

"Varget. I think I saw a comment here a few days ago from you to the effect that Varget was just a bit slower than 4064. Can you confirm this for me?"

Yup... just get the 50th anniversary edition of the Sierra manual. You will find that 308 loads are typically .5 to 1 grain over the 4064 loads for the same velocity, and in the .223 with heavy bullets, it is about .5 grains more.
My personal experence confirms it (for what little that's worth).
I've also found that it's very tolerant of heavy loads with heavy bullets... shooting a 190 SMK @ 2600 with no signs of pressure (no, I won't tell you the load, but I think a few others on this site have done the same).

The 11th Speer, and the 4th Nosler don't have Varget... there have been a few new manuals in the past year or so, and they should have it also. I think the new Hornady has it.

Pablito.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 00:53:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.45)

On the copper thing........

Thanks to these nice young men on the Duty Roster, I have avoided any copper build up in my new fire sticks by doing the proper break-in procedure. That made my normal anal type cleaning procedure much simpler.

But on my pre-Snipercountry sticks I simply did the following without even looking to see if they were badly fouled, amde the assumption that they were:

Plugged barrel and poured in regular Shooters Choice. Let sit for one hour. Poured out, but saved. Next I ran 10 wet Shooters Choice patches through. Soaked a wire brush and did 15 or 20 strokes. Ran another wet patch through then a dry patch. It was fairly clean, not much green. Then in at room temperature, I ran 2 soaked patches of Sweets through followed by a thoroughly soaked nylon brush with Sweets. Let set 15 minutes. Ran dry patch through. Ran 2 wet patches of Shooters through again followed by a dry patch. No green at all. Ran 2 alcohol patches through followed by a dry. Ran 2 oil patches through followed by a dry. Did this to all my sticks and in addition went through the entire breakin procedure again.

That's how I done did it.

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 01:03:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.59.230)

if you have a very severe case of cooper fouling,plug your chamber VERY tightly,mix 50% ammonium hydroxide and 50% rubbing alcohol in a small squirt bottle,add a penny or copper jacketed projectile to start the reaction,pour it down your bore,it will fizz like crazy,don't leave it more than 10 min.pour it out,clean it with a regular bore solvent to stop the reaction.don't leave it long or it will start to eat your barrel.only use this method if your bore is severly copper fouled,and not every time you clean it.you will have a shine you won't believe.
outta here.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony W. <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 01:44:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.25.254.106)

i am thinking of buying a long gun and am torn between the remington
700 pss/ remington 700 vs or the savage 110fps. I am very comfortable with the .308 caliber and want to stay with it. I also saw a remington 700 ltr (?) at a gun show with a leupold vari-x 3 scope for a bout 950$ dont know if that is a good deal or not would appreciate any and all input fromthe experts before i spend money on something that wont make me happy and i won have confidence i shooting. you can email your advice to terry6715@msn.com if you have any other weapon systems in mind i would appreciate input in those too, however my wife wont allow me to spend too much money!!
terry <terry6715@msn.com>
TARENTUM, Pennsylvania, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 01:58:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.10.63.98)

Ken,

I also read the American Gunsmith article on Microlon Gun Juice. Sounded too good to be true so I called the guy and ordered some. Because its components evaporate at different rates, he only sells it in 1 oz. bottles. $10/bottle. If you buy 4 or more, the price drops to $8/bottle. He claims that they have put over 26,000 rounds of .17 cal. through a barrel at 7,000fps, and the barrel shows absolutely no wear!!!!!!!! As the old Missouri saying goes: Show me! Will let you know how the stuff works on some of my toys. It's also supposed to be a great lube and corrosion preventer for darned near anything.
Doc <doc@fidnet.com>
The balmy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 03:09:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.216.205.99)

Oops!
Correct e-mail address is: docs@fidnet.com
Doc <docs@fidnet.com>
The balmy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 03:13:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.216.205.99)

Kevin: The export situation was the result of Lloyd Axeworthy asking the US to suspend issuing export permits until he could figure out what was going on.

The NY Times article was full of bull shit. They were claiming it was feared a lot of the guns were finding their way back into the US through the black market. Why would a dealer go through all of this permit process if they were going to do something illegal ? It doesn't make sense. I can't imagine any smart crook wanting to leave a very well documented paper trail back to himself.

As far as the import permits go, they aren't actually open ended or numbered. The permits themselves are good for only 6 months for the specific number of goods that are to be imported into Canada.

This whole situation is a result of an American demand (for import and export permits). For a dealer in Canada it takes approx. 3-4 weeks to have an import certificate authorized. It then tkes at least that long, if not longer, for the American export certificate to be issued. This type of delay can cripple a business if it can't acquire sufficient inventory to provide to its customers in a timely basis.

The Firearms people at Foreign Affairs and International Trade are actually great guys. They suggested you pad the numbers of goods you were looking to import, so that you can draw against that amount at some point without having to go through "the dog and pony show" all over again when you run out of inventory and need more.

I believe the American export document is good for a year, so the dealer (or whoever)can draw against the padded amount while waiting for their new permits to be issued. This eliminates a lot of the down time having to wait for the paperwork to come through.

Some distributors and dealers have taken this to the extreme, however, and that is why all the fuss was stirred up. If the whole process was more efficient and didn't take so much time to complete, there would never have been a problem to begin with.

I don't believe I've ever told anyone here on this board that I'm a firearms dealer and a Hornady distributor. When I spoke to Hornady on Tuesday, they claimed the US State Dept. never told them to not to send for export permits to Canada. As far as Hornady was concerned, it was business as usual.

Just my very long $0.02 worth on the subject.

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Canada - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 03:50:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.97.26)

RE Ghillie suits in the inner city.

Thanks to those who posted and emailed advice, especially those who recommended scent killers to get around dogs.

I can see some clarification is in order. I work an inner city precinct in one of America's most populated cities, but we don't really have the tenement buildings and endless concrete that I would think New York has. There are many run down and abandoned houses, and they have usually overgrown yards. There are also many vacant lots.

The targets would usually be drug dealers rather than robbers and such. We are trying to observe drug deals, not catch robbers by being the victims.

We have had good success observing both in uniform and in plain clothes on drug dealers. We hide in bushes, in abandoned houses, in plain cars, and between houses.

The criminals are adapting to our tactics. They know from trial testimony the types of places we hide in. A few seem to be choosing their locations with an eye to thwarting us.

We don't want to ask citizens to let us into occupied homes because we are concerned about retaliation against them.

Back up would be very close. At least one guy would be dedicated to having my back as I observe and transmit to the take-down team, but those tactics are subject to change if I learn a better way.

I would especially like any info from those who have used a suit like this, particularly info on realistic distances. I think three yards is way too close. It would probably be impossible to broadcast info to the take-down team without being heard by the target. Three yards, nine feet, is smaller than the rooms most of us have our computers in. I have been that close, when somone wandered by, but all I could do was stay quiet to avoid being compromised.

Again, ALL info and opinions are welcome from EVERYONE. Put your two cents in and then look for more spare change.

Thanks, and Semper Fi

Mark Johnson <markj12pct@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 05:36:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.69)

25th.inf. Div. 69-70
2nd. class of sniper school Veit. Nam
James Remmel <KC848@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 17:10:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.199.146)

The Chandlers list a new book called "Sniper One". Anybody heard about it yet or have any info on what it contains?
TR <BOLTGUNZRUL@aol.com>
Portland, OR, USA - Sunday, March 05, 2000 at 18:51:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.67)

Mark,

Hey man, if you're crawling around in vacant lots, and in overgrown yards where the drug dealers are doing their deals then be sure to look out for the used needles.

Later,
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 00:22:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.205.53)

I finished "Sniper One" a few weeks ago. It's a novel by Roy Chandler (the Colonel's brother) about a Marine sniper who operated in Iraq during the Gulf War. The insertion team discovered some items of interest while in the hide and several years later, return to recover said items. Its an interesting read…not quite on par with Stephen Hunter's "Point of Impact" but then, that's the best damn book I've read in years! Sniper One contains some interesting tidbits and makes several veiled references to the Chandler Sniper (rifle) throughout the book. SSGT "Clicker" Bell, the book's main character, uses the Barrett M82A1 as his main rig but manages to con Colonel Rock (AKA Norm Chandler) out of one of his precious rifles in a mere 3 weeks. The rest of us mortals must wait 14 months! be safe.

Bill 0294, Clearwater, FL <lhardin1@netscape.net>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 02:12:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.92.204.249)

Hello:

I have a guy who needs a 34" .338 blank. He says his H-S 26" 338 win mag is a thousand yarder, head shots on hogs at that range plus. I guess I never considered a 338 win mag as a contender for the thousand yard. 338 Lapua, yes, much more powder behind the lead to push it to the velocity necessary to attain a trajectory thousand yarders are looking for. hmmmm...

Pat(mrbullet):

I'm almost at D-day here, still deciding on the caliber of choice, want a bore that I can reach out and talk to somebody, but would also like the chance to take some meat home too!! 260Rem is lookin better and better, is at the top of the list followed closely by my HTR's (.308). They are closing in on 1/4 MOA as an average score, and I make a lot of 'em, I know you have shot both calibers, you love 'em both, just gimme some input. If I go with the 260 and shoot the 142's, will I be giving up accuracy on the 120's?? can I make up for it on headspace?? would it be easier to go with a SS, or would a BDL be the way to go?? You know a close third choice is the 7-08........... and by the way, aren't you about tired of this winter, so much snow and cold?? heheh , I'm supposed to do the coyote hunt thing St. Patty's weekend, should be fun, get to see the old man for a day or so, maybe I'll give ya a ring

JR <westernpump@sullybuttes.net>
rapid city, sd, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 03:17:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.34.9.83)

Say you guys, am I the only one from Sniper Country attending the Woodchuck and Egg Shoot in North Carolina. Let me knnow if any of you studs are going to be down there????????
Theres prize money to be won, and I happen to be on vacation that week and my lovely wife told me to get the hell outta Dodge!! (And you guys wonder why I love her so much - after she gives me the money to go and have a good time. You guys dont think she will be having a better time - do you??)

al o.
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
Sunny, Glorious, , O-hi-er, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 03:33:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.144.4.177)

About the .338 Lapua: Shooting Times did a comparison of this caliber
with some others I don't recall. What I do recall about their test is that the .338 Lapua was the very least impressive calibre of the 3 or 4 they tested. Makes me wonder why so much money was spent developing it for 1000yd shooting when other more common American calibers do way better. Statistically speaking.
sven <svenska50@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 03:52:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.174.99.181)

Copper fouling,

You know there are a lot of different ways to remove the stuff. I personally prefer Hoppes #9BR to do the dirty work. Although you can add industrial strength ammonia to regular #9 and that also works. I have been using an electralisis system by Outers recently (last two years) and it works just fine.
I do however do not totally clean out my bore since doing so changes my POI.

Went paint balling Saturday and had a total blast! You really can sink some $$ into these paint guns.

One of my recent thoughts have been on getting a new striker spring for my M700. Can anyone tell me with some certainty that a heavier spring reducing the lock time actually improves group size? I just can't seem to get anyone at the ranges to give me any difinitive answers. Yes I'm another accuray freak.

One last thing to those so inclined, DON'T FORGET TO VOTE!!

Semper Fi!!
Bravo Kilo out.
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 06:03:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.77.71.162)

any ideas out there for an after market stock for a Savage 112 bvss. Preferably fiberglass or synthetic. Please e-mail me with any ideas and if possible a price or price range.
Thanks,
Zach
Zach <buckskin52@hotmail.com>
pa, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 06:23:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.166.160.51)

Hello all,

I am new around here and realize this could open the proverbial can of worms but I would appreciate any input or advice you could give me. My question is about Texas Brigade Armory's rifles. I am considering an M40A3 and would be interested in hearing any comments or opinions on thier rifles.

Thanks in advance,

R.A. Head

R. A. HEAD <RHEAD@REDSHIFT.COM>
CARMEL, CA, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 06:51:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.204.197.48)

Bad Karma,
I've been paintballing for awhile now,and yes it's a real blast.some of the new striker springs,ecspecially the heavier Wolff springs will eventually cause sear bite,or at least a little galling of your cocking piece and or sear,stick with a factory replacement.
Al O,
I'll be there.see ya 1 Apr.you think there is something fishy about having it on April Fool's Day?
outta here.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony W. <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 11:26:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.45)

Bad Karma;
As for the heavier bolt springs, I have used the 28# spring, factory is 24#, in a couple of my rifles with no ill effects but with no improvment in accuracy that I can see. I tried the 32# spring but I felt a little vibration that I did not like. Any of the heavier springs will increse the cocking effort and I am sure the 32# spring would increse the wear on the cocking cam. I think that the heavier springs would be a mistake if you are going to use these on a tactical rifle as they would slow your repete shots due to the incresed cocking effort.
Just my two cents worth.

Jerry
Jerry Rice <nor-cal@worldnet.att.net>
American Canyon, CA, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 16:03:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.72.65.229)

Guys, went and shot with the Mudville Militia this weekend. Great bunch of guys. I wont say it was wet out htere but I had to go back into the field and find my boots that were sucked off my feet by the quickmud. LOL Just kidding. Pat Tidwell, you have got to go to this shoot and have some fun. I shot my Norcal 300 Win and once I have all the zeros down look out. The Sierra Program said I would need 31moa to hit at 1000 yards. I used 30 because my 900 yard data was over the head. I still was high into the head. 28moa would be just right. Before anyone jumps on me for God only knows why, the chronograph clocked the 220's at 2750fps after I set off 68.5grains of RL22. The rifle shoots little bitty groups with that load.

It was nice to put faces to the guys that regularlly post here.

Well back to slings.

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 16:24:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.213)

Bad Karma...
What Jerry Rice said!! Twice!

If you think lock time is a problem, then consider going to one of the light weight titanium firing pins... you will gain more from a light pin, than a heavy spring. But the difference between 2 milli-seconds, and 2.2 milli-seconds... I don't think it will make any difference either way.

Pablito.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 16:30:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.18)

Jr.
If you build the 260 you should have no problems with the 120s or the 107s. Most I taked to say they shoot better than the 142s or the 140s. I have stayed with the 142s because of my long range shooting. I tried some 120s and they shot into .4s when the 142s were in the .6s but I couldn't use them for the 100 and 200 yard ranges because the point of impact was different and I didn't want to be screwing around with that all the time. I have been shooting all this last week and a half, everyday, comparing the 308 and the 260 to one another. I have been shooting cold bore and groups from 400 to 700 yards. Both rifles have turned in some impressive groups and some average ones but the key is the windage adjustments to start off the 260 takes 1 MOA less adjustment at 500yds and then only needs .5 MOA for each 100 to 700yds. The 308 needs a full MOA between each 100yds. The other thing is the groups are tighter on the 260 than the 308 from 500 on out and I believe this is because it is less effected by the wind drift. I have good loads for both and very seldom have much over a .5 MOA vertical spread at any range. I don't think you can go wrong with either but I still have to favor the little 260 its much more forgiving and makes me look better(HA). Let me know what you decide.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 17:42:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)

All:

NOTICE: sometime later this afternoon - the Range is going to go cold for say - about 30 minutes or so. We're gonna knock our T1 down and activate more channels. That's so you Hogs can suck the roster down alot faster :)

Sorry for inconvenience.... go do some real work while you're waiting.

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 18:07:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.172.42.2)

Guys: this isn't a "long range" post, but I think you'll like it anyway. The Glock experiment is hereby over. I decided about 8 months ago to shoot the thing and carry it, and not clean it until it started to jam. Just to see how much I could "get away with". Well, I have a number for that now. I can shoot (haven't counted the EXACT leftovers yet) between 2500 and 3000 (I'm guessing about half way) over 8 months, carrying every day, and not have a jam. I did have some this weekend (the very first from this pistol!!!), although I question if it wasn't due a little to the use of Nato ammo rather than my +p+'s. No time to load lately. It seems that when the Glock needs cleaning, it lets you know. There were 5 or 6 jams out of the 100 used. Needless to say, I'm impressed. Now to do the same thing with one of those nifty Wilson Combat CQB's.......

I've not left you guys, just been a little too busy to post (NEVER too busy to read though!). Good luck!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Still alive in Cedar City, Utah, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 18:58:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)

Pablito;
I don't have much experience with the light weight firing pins but I did put a Tubb firing pin into a customers 25-06 that was shooting in the 3's and 4's and it went to a 1 1/2" rifle. He brought the rifle back and I changed it back and the rifle went back to shooting in the 3's and 4's. I don't know why it made such a bad change and I don't care but needless to say I do not install the light weight firing pins anymore. I am sure this does not happen every time but this is what happened to me.
Just my two cents worth.

Jerry
Jerry Rice <nor-cal@worldnet.att.net>
American Canyon, CA, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 23:28:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.72.103.254)

All: Okay roster hogs! We oughta be rockin' alittle faster now.

Enjoy!

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 23:45:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Jerry Rice...

That is my own opinion too. My feeling is leave the firing pin alone.
There are so many guns coming out of the custom shop that are shooting in the .2" to .3" range, with standard pins and springs, that if the gun isn't shooting well... look some place else.

Put my two cents in with yours.

'lito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, March 06, 2000 at 23:53:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.71)

Modest Mike Miller, the un-Dude, using a new rifle with unknown "real" zeroes, in the rain and the wind at Sacramento Valley on 3/5/00, forgot to mention that he scored 3rd out of 23 or 24 shooters, in his FIRST TIME at this match. Oh yeah, he just had foot surgery too.

Way to go Mike! To the rest of you who only read his posts, YES, he can shoot too. Please come see us at the next match, which happens the first Sunday of each month at 0800. Dee Turner and Dan Schmitz did another fine job of running things. The 600 yard head shots (at one stage) were a neat twist on the normal competition.

Bad Karma, we hope to see you there soon.
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Radioactive, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 01:27:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.14.52.225)

.260 Rem vs. 6.5x55

I see that the .260 Rem has popped up as a subject here once again. Cool. I am a major fan of 6.5mm in general and have had some uncanny luck with one of my Sweedish Mausers: .7 MOA @ 100 yards out of a butcherized...um, sporterized...M96. Not bad for a gun made in 1903. It likes 140 MKs on top of a very HOT load of H4831. How hot? 2,900+ FPS from a 29" barrel. Pretty danged hot, I'd say.

Sooo, for those of us that are already tooled up and experienced in loading for 6.5x55 and are interested in building a long-rage 6.5mm gun from the ground up, and think the Sweed cartrige is already one very fine cartrige, whats my motivation for going to .260?

Oh, and a quick update on the 700PSS From Hell : The rifle, now newly bedded in Marinetex, has gone to the range for two weeks in a row without an appreciable change in zero. This is to be comapred to how it worked in the OEM HS Precision with standared machined bedding where I had to chase the zero across the target from week to week. It had moved 3.5 MOA in three outings and seem to be
accelerating when my milling machine and I interviened two weeks ago.
5-shot groups are still holding steady at about .75 MOA and they are at the same spot on the paper each time . Now I have a rifle I can work with. Thanks for the help, guys.

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Columbia, in the still-Confederate-flaged state of,, SC, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 01:49:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)

Mike Miller

I've got Sacramento on my schedule, probably in May. I'm committed here for the first weekend in April.

I'm trying to work your June class in New Mexico into my budget. When's the cutoff date?

Pat T
Pat Tidwell <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 02:29:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)

WHOA!!!

I connected via DSL last week and, with the site improvements, actually load this site within not more that 3 seconds!!!

Way to go, KEN!!! Your changes decreased load time dramatically!!!

The rest of you guys - if you can get DSL, I recommend it highly. Compare it to subsonic vs. supersonic! It certainly makes for faster, less frustrating navigation. Definitely worth the extra dinero.

Sorry for the digression...now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

Semper Fi!
Roger E. Lays <rlays@zbzoom.net>
PA, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 02:29:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.67.120.227)

The "Mudville Match" on March 5, 2000 was won by "Wills" with a score of 282 of 360 possible, excellent shooting under the circumstances. The conditions were very much befitting the match's nick name "Mudville". Temps in the high 40's. The ground wet from about a month of consistent rain, then Sunday, it rained. To make sure the rain was well distributed on all of the optical surfaces, the wind was blowing about 10 mph from 7-8 o'clock for most of the match. Based on personal experience, the only way not to fog either my glasses, or my scope, or both, was not to breath (ever). That left the view through the scope looking very much like looking through a wet shower door. Good shootin' "Wills".

You folks should come shoot with us, first Sunday of the month 0800 at Savramento Valley Shooting Center. While we can't promise the same set of "ideal conditions" for all the matches they are fun, and a great learning experience.

Dee

Dee Turner <deeturner@jps.net>
Roseville, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 03:20:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.63.224.190)

Found the load for the Federal Match 168's in the archives. Anyone happen to know what load Federal's using for the 175's? And are they still claiming that it's a blend.
Thanks

Danny
Danny Reever <dreever@supernet.com>
Arendtsville, pa, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 03:49:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.157.108.246)

I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PURCHASE A REMINGTON PSS NEW IN BOX FOR 650
(692 WITH TAX ETC.) I DONT KNOW IF I SHOULD JUMP ON IT IR LET IT PASS.
I'M LOOKING FOR SOME INPUT FROM THE PRO'S ON THIS(BIG MONEY ON MY COPS BUDGET).

E-MAIL: TERRY6715@MSN.COM FOR YOUR INPUT (WHICH IS GREATLY APPRECIATED)
terry <terry6715@msn.com>
TARENTUM, Pennsylvania, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 04:24:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.10.65.146)

I read the duty roster regularly -- lots of good info. I don't normally post but but I think its worth while to point out that Clinton and company are putting on the big push for legislation to shut down gun shows and mandatory licensing or worse. Now is the time to write, email or call your senators and congressman or congresswoman. If you don't have a name or address you can pull the information down from www.senate.gov and www.house.gov. If your senators and representatives don't think that you care, they are going to follow the politically expedient path of least resistence. Its up to us.
Jored <ljorgens@ix.netcom.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 05:24:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.30.108.166)

Tony,

Do not... REPEAT DO NOT USE AMMONIUM HYDROXIDE MIXED WITH ALCOHOL TO CLEAN YOUR BORE!
When I was in school ten years ago, I worked as a technician in at the Latrobe Steel Research & Developement metallurgy lab. That sounds ALOT like some of the stuff I mixed up to ETCH THE GRAIN BOUNDAIES ON POLISHED SAMPLES OF STAINLESS STEEL. You should see what it looks like under a microscope!
Steve <hockyref@bellatlantic.net>
warming up in, south west Pa, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 05:44:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 151.201.122.42)

Danny...

Fed doesn't use blended powder, and never has. Nor does any other commercial loader (including the small guys, like Corbin).
They use bulk, non-canister powder. Federal has three "certified" powders for the .308 that they use, depending on what's available. One is a non-canister equivelent of IMR-4064... I can't speak to the other two.
They don't blend powders... they buy a batch (a few rail car loads), make tests for pressure and velocity, and then run the entire lot... making tests at intervals in the day, throughout the run.

There are no "Magic Blends"... just plain ol', plain ol' powder!

Pablito.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 10:56:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.36)

To Tom Simpson, re. .260 vs. 6.5X55.

The .260 fit in the Rem M700SA wich is "US-standard".

In "any" other action I'd go for 6.5X55 due to the availability of factory matchammo. On this side of the pond 6.5X55-matchammo even outnumbers the 308win. The regular Lapua 139gr "diesel"-load tracks the 300wm/220 cam on a Leupold M3 perfectly.

TorF

TorF <torf@aftenposten.no>
Oslo, - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 11:21:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.212.93.33)

Ok guys one more time and Ill let it go
Anyone seen or heard anything on the new Sig Arms STR970. Cant find much info other than whats on there own site. I would like any info on price range, accuracy, and comparison to other rifles like the pss. Looks pretty nice. Anyone seen or heard any reviews.
ad <adsjunkbox@mindspring.com>
al, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 14:03:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.131.204)

Damn, did that download fast! Over 4000fps. Congrats SC.

On the firing pins and springs, I had a .75MOA gun (factory stock 700VS .243WIN) and a Wolff 28# firing pin upgrade(?) opened it out to 1.5MOA at 100-400Y. So I swapped it back. On a different gun (700P .308WIN) the same Wolff 28# spring improved a 1.25MOA gun to .75MOA and it's still performing that way at 100-1000Y (conditions stable). The 700P dryfire sounded dead prior to the install. The 243 was audibly crisp. Moronic Luck. Shoot and see. The interior bolt surface is unreasonably rough on some guns and finished better on others. Shouldn't matter if pin and spring tolerances are correct with no excessive internal sidewall contact. Be aware with aftermarket spring fit.

Even more boring than that, the collar on another firing pin on one of my 700's was galling on the interior bolt sidewall near the pin stop shoulder where there was an extreme burr where the ejector plunger spring hole cuts through near the firing pin stop shoulder. We were looking to the cause of inconsistent group flyers with different shooters and the same gun. We figured this excessive burring caused inconsistencies so I cleaned it up. Group flyers disappeared. Pin would have probably worn the burr eventually and cured this with time since it is harder. Part of the break-in process I presume. Check it with a bore scope if experiencing flyers.

I've just received a Tubb Speedlock firing pin with Wolff spring to experiment with in different guns. The supplied spring was larger DIA and binds on the bolt walls going in. Swapped it for another Wolff and all fits better now. Wrong supplied spring I figured. I'd rather have the forward pin maintain pin alignment than the spring with sidewall interference. I hope I have better luck at the target with the Tubb setup than some have encountered. Tain't shot it yet but it sounds purdy.

To,
Mike (the Undude), it was good shooting next to ya, and congrats.
Wills, congrats. Both of you stay home so we can place higher.

Cheers,
Kenya (putting the anal in over-analyzing guns)
Kenya <kenya_sheutte@yahoo.com>
mudville, supercalifragilistic, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 14:46:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.241.147)

To Pat Tidwell:
I can answer your question to Mike Miller. I am the Phoenix based co-ordinator for the American Shooting Academy, the home site for the course at which Mike Miller and others will be instructing.
The signup deadline for the June rifle course in New Mexico has no fixed cutoff date. Registration will be closed when the range slots are filled. So it is in your best interest to make your interest known to James as soon as possible. General information can be found on WWW.ASA-training.Com and more specific questions and signups can be done with James Jarrett directly at (623) 581-6606.
Bob Hodge <info@ASA-training.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 16:11:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.241.155.50)

Firing Pins: Leave the stock ones in! They sell the big dollar ones to get your money.

Pat Tidwell, I hope to see you in June. I answered you in depth via email, but I will put a little bit out for the other interested guys on the rooster. The class in June is dependent on getting enough students to not cost James or I money. We are close to the number of students needed, if they send in the money they promised! James and I would like all deposits in by May1 so we can get everything up and running the way it should be. If you want to come, email me or james and let us known. I promise you will not be sorry you came to the class.

Mudvile Militia, I hope to get back and try for a first. LOL Next time I wont have an excuse if I lose.

Dee Turner, my Nightforce Scope didn't fog and I could see the "X" Ring at 600 yards. That is one fantastic scope. NXS5.5x22x56. They promise to send me the 3.5x15x50 in April. The 5.5x22x56 was supposed to be a loaner but I called NightForce up and said they couldn't have it back so set a price. This article is going to cost me big bucks.

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 16:37:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.193)

I want to re-torque the screws on my HS Precision 700P-DM stock. The barrel has shifted slightly left and I want to re-seat and torque. Recommendations on tools and technique appreciated.
Breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 17:33:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.3.204.222)

On the spring issue,

Thanks for the info guys, I'll stick to what I got. The gun is capable of 1/4 MOA now and I doubt thata spring will help much. Heck! The barrel isn't even totally broken in yet! I got 395 total rounds fired through it and I have a ways to go before it settles in.

A small note to handloaders,

I got my 175 MKs and the lot# is different. In fact the OAL is out a tad bit to the lands. It was 2.810" now it's 2.819" I seat it 2.821" to snug the lands. It leaves a wee little 6 marks on the moly I put on them. Check those bullets before you seat 'em.

All,

VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!!!!

Bravo Kilo out.
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 17:47:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.79.209.83)

Does anyone know where I can buy some of the issue USMC data books? I think they would work well for me and would probably be cheap. Or does anyone have any other leads on a good data book?
Should I make my own? I have thought about doing a home built one but am not sure what I should include.
Any advice out there?

Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
San Jo, more rainafornia, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 18:39:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.247.149.130)

Quick question on the 308 caliber 175 HPBT Sierra Gold Match ammo:

What is the stated FPS for a 26" barrel with a 1/12 twist? Is it 2600Fps or 2700Fps?

Darren...
Semper Fi
Darren <ddong@witcapital.com>
San Francisco, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 18:51:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.90.57.34)

Jeff-
Tactical Tailor at Ft. Lewis had some SOTIC data books last time I was there (January?)
TonyM <bcoyrecce@hotmail.com>
BC, Canada - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 19:10:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.102.80.125)

DATA BOOKS

Iron Brigade Armory has some Navy Suface Warfare data books.

I have had disasterous attempts at making my own books
as most waterproof materials are not. Nothing like lying out in the rain trying to decipher a bluish smuge that should have come ups etc.
-Yes I know you should know them anyway.
If you want to build your own something like:

RD# Ammuntion Time Temp Wind Dir Dist Meth TGT Effect
371 Norma Match 21:34 -4 8mph 3' 613M Lzr Greasy Serb Neut.

Don't take offence it is just an example, I don't like cowardly little vermin who shoot civie's for fun.

Tailor you book to what you want - if all you need is a round count then don't buy a fancy (and pricey) book. Sometimes the overly detailed book could help (especially in Liabilty) depending upon your detail - my example would probably jail me:)
Some people also use tgt shapes and indicate the impact point and come ups used to achieve the results.
You probably know your needs better than others and you can always change.

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 22:17:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.142.23)

Citibank loves us again. www.worldnetdaily.com If you check out this story, scroll down to the Army Sgt's tale of woe.
Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
PDX, Or., USA - Tuesday, March 07, 2000 at 22:55:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.133.251)

Has anyone out there had some hands-on or heard anything about the KVH Datascope. I could not find anything in the archives. The datascope sells in U.S. Cav for about $460.00. It is about palm-sized and has a built in compass which will store seven bearings. It also keeps the time. What was of interest to me was the fact that it is supposed to range out to 1800 yards, per the customer service rep. They could not tell how it ranges and the only thing I have any knowledge of are the laser range finders.
Any info would be helpful.
Thanks.
Jack <jackwilson@anglefire.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 00:14:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.215.84.142)

Jack - Datascope - Unless you are ranging on a lighthouse, or the The Queen Mary's Smoke stack, don't bother. We tested two of them and the graduations are just too dam coarse for real work in this area of range estimation.

Question on Data Book? - are u looking for data books, shooting logs, rifle logs or a mix there of. Most books have way too much data for a field environment and not enough for a range environment. One is a controled environment and the other is a wet, nasty, forlorn, pit of mushy paper and smugged ink. Unless, of course, you use a laminated data sheet for your shot. Tons of tables and info does not work in the field. On the range you can protect your treasures somewhat, but again the worse may happen. Only take what you need and store the rest for achive purposes and future references where it is safe. Then you go to that safe place where you can make your laminated card for a "special date".

Have fun guys, got one heck of a class full of students. Love these classes where most of the guys really can shoot before they get here. Makes my life so much easier!!!!

Rick <RBowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 02:00:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.206.208)

Jack,

Concerning the KHV Datascope. This is more of a mariner's tool than for precise rangefinding. Basically it is an electronic Mil Relation tool. You have to know the size of an object that you are aiming the instrument at. AS you are observing the "target" you holdown a button that raises or lowers a set of electronically generated "bars" until the number of bars corrospond with the height of the target. (Same as mil relation if you're familiar with that).

You enter the size of the target and it calculates the range. It is prone to the same kinds of errors that mil relation using the Mil dot reticle pattern has. These being:

The smaller the target, the more the potential error.
Errors at long ranges in measuring the size of the target or in entering the height of the target have huge errors in the result.
Bad light and air conditions create false images. Even worse in the KHV than when using a mil dot scope that has fine resolution.
You have to know the size of the target accurately.

The digital compass feature has some uses. I tried it a few times for the triangulation method of rangefinding. It did not have the fine resolving power (less than 1MOA angle reading capability) to use it for this method.

Final suggestion: No good for rangefinding. 1800 meters? Maybe, if it is tripod mounted, the air is crystal clear, the target is HUGE and lots of experience using the tool. The standard Mil dot reticle pattern and good optics will get you better results using mil relation than the KHV by far.

Email me if you have any other questions. Thanks and take care.
Trigger50 <Triggerfifty@specialoperations.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 02:03:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.252.120)

To all,
Would anyone like to see a 50 cent version of Outers Foul out bore cleaning device that works. Click on my name at the bottom for pictures and instructions. I found it on Tuco's Reloader shack forum.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 03:52:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.148.59)

On the databook. Check out www.trgt.com and our databook. It is a hybrid between the USMC/Army books as well as other stuff thrown in.

Wasup Rick?

Out
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 04:07:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.167)

Hello, all! I need some advice, please. I need some recommendations on good starting loads and powders to use for .300 Win Mag at 400, 600, and 1000 yards. Also, what would some good recommendations be for optics and/or bases? Personal opinions on the Tasco Mil-Dot series--good for the price, or good for nothing? Also, some general comments, if you would, on the Winchester Model 70 Laredo, composite stock, 26 inch barrel, .300 Win Mag. Any info would be helpful. Finally, opinions on the following bullets: Sierra vs. Berger vs. Hornady vs. Nosler Ballistic Tip--all in the 175/190 grain range.

Thanks for the help!

E. C. Tovar
E. C. Tovar <JJAWA3@EARTHLINK.NET>
Enumclaw, WA, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 06:59:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.13.50.234)

.300 win mag M70 Laredo. I know of five of these, including mine. Of the five, only one of them has had decent accuracy. The best I was able to get with mine was about 1 1/2" at 100 yards. However, it shot everything into 2 to 2 1/2" at that range, which is suitable for hunting. Mine had really excessive freebore, enough that I was able to push 168 Matchkings out of the case with a Stony Point guage. 200 Matchkings left less than 1/8" in the case. I had it rechambered in .300 Ultra Mag to get rid of the freebore a couple of weeks ago, but with all the rain in Southern Ca for the past few weeks I haven't had a chance to shoot it in this caliber. On the other hand both my son and I have M70 Heavy Varmint rifles in .308 that have been tack drivers since day one.
Pat Tidwell <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 08:44:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)

Shilen Barrels as sold by Brownells

Well, I now have a 700PSS that acts like it wants to shoot pretty good. However, I would like it to be better than pretty good. Rather more like, damn good. I have noted for some years that Brownells sells Shilen barrels prefitted and ready to install. All I need is the action wrench. I know that Shilen is one of the old-time big names in the business but I was told at one point (by a fellow I consider to be something of a rifle snob) that Shilen uses their second-grade stuff to fill Brownells orders. I was wondering if anyone here had any personal experience with Shilen barrels and, more specificaly, with Shilen barrels ordered from Brownells.

Thanks:

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, in the unseasonably warm state of , South Carolina, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 13:04:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

Pat T. Been having very good luck with 300 win mag using Fed GM cases, Fed 215M primers, 73.3 gr RL22 and Berger 190 VLD Moly. Averaging 3050 fps, .3 moa at 100 and 1 moa at 300. Using a Schnieder 25" match fluted barrel with a Vias muzzle brake. Have had similar results with same setup using Sierra 190s. With Nosler 180 Silver Tips was getting .4 at 100 with 73.8 gr of RL22. didn't get a chance to chrony the 180s.

TonyY <ayackowski@rcn.com>
Iselin, NJ, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 13:38:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.97.88.100)

Remember the Accelerator?

I recently saw an ad in Shotgun News for 1000 .30 sabots, $40. I assume these are a surplus Rem/DuPont item from the now defunct Accelerator cartrides, avialable in the early eighties. (chambered in .30-'06, .30-30 Win., and .308 Win., using a .22 caliber bullet of ? wt.)
Does anyone have any load data for .30-'06? Any thoughts on long term use of the sabots in the bore? Any need for a special seating die?

Thanks,

Keith
Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 16:44:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.91)

Here's a really stupid question... Is there any particular reason that the 7mm Rem. Mag isn't used as a long range "sniper" type round?

The reason this sounds so stupid is that, as you've already gathered, I'm not a sniper or "gun guru." I have owned one of these in Rem. M700 for several years and have had great luck in accuracy. I typically use the gun for goundhogs in the Spring and Summer and for deer in the fall/winter. It's been a grat shooting gun.

I am just interested and if it's an accuracy problem what are the causes.

Feel free to reply directly to my email as I don't have a chance to visit Sniper Country on a regular basis (busy like everyone else)

Thanks!
JR
jeff_rich_tn@hotmail.com
Jeff Rich <jeff_rich_tn@hotmail.com>
COOKEVILLE, TN, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 18:59:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.52.76.253)

Keith,
When you shoot the sabot rounds they are only marginal for accuracy to start off with and they get worse the more you shoot them. It used to be necessay to shoot a jacketed bullet about every 5th round or so because of the plastic fouling the bore I guess.

Jeff,
The 7MM Mag is a fine long range round and some Federal agencies even use it as a sniper rifle but like a lot of others it has to be hand loaded to get the full potential out of it and then you get into a liability question. The other draw back is that it is hard on barrels and like a 300 Win Mag it will need a new barrel in about 1500 rounds. The recoil is a lot more severe on the shooter and the 300 would over shadow it for long range work where it would be used beyond the 308s capability. Just my opinion for what thats worth.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 20:09:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)

I want to take a moment to thank everyone that responded to my post on training. It was very refreshing to receive so many well thought out and properly spelled emails. :>) The number one recommended training center was Stone Mountain. Some of you thought that I should choice the Leupold LR series over the NSX from Nightforce. Others gave great ideas on mounts and rings. All the little details that can and do make a differance.
I did think that the reply on shooting at the barn from the inside was one of the best!
I'll post the final scope selection and shooting impressions as they develope. If you want to weight in on the NSX vs. the Leupold, please feel free to start another thread war!
Thank you once again,
Gregory Fields
Gregory Fields <greg.fields@mrigroup.com>
Lancaster, Pa, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 20:16:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.170.180.246)

The7mm rem Mag is an excellent long range cartridge. The Secret Service is using it for their counter sniper rifles. IMHO it is a better long range cartridge than the 300Win Mag due to the more efficient bullets being available in 7mm vs 30cal. I'm using 168BTHP Sierras and 162 A-Max's and I'm also going to try 180 JLK's in my M70. recoil is not bad at all especially compared to a 300mag, about like a 30-06. With a 168 Sierra at 3000fps my rifle shoots into 3/4inch at 200yds. Load is 71.5gn H1000, Fed 215M in Norma cases and the aforementioned 168 Sierras. the Sierra manual lists the BC for the 168 as roughly (.488) which I'm gonna say is BS becasue they list the 190gn 308 as .533 and the 7mm bullet has a better SD. The A-max lists at BC=.625 and when I can get them to shoot well I will switch over. Barrel life is an issue and I will watch closely and let everyone know when mine goes south. Semper Fi....
Ken <target1371@aol.com>
IL, USA - Wednesday, March 08, 2000 at 22:39:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.206.202)

Leupold versus NightForce, I have been using Leupold for nearly 20 years so you will never hear a bad word about Leupolds better scopes from me. I love the Ultra/MK4's and the new LRM1 and LRM3's are fantastic. I have only been using the NXS for about a month but I will tell you this, I took off a MK4 put on the NXS on my 300 Win. The resolution is better than the Leupold. I like the NXS's reticle better. I would be hard pressed to choose one over the other right now. Both are great and I am waiting for the new NXS 3.5x15x50 to test. As long as you are looking to upgrade take a long look at SxB and BxL scopes as well.

Sniper Schools: SMTC is fantastic but I would like to have a chance to work with you in June at the American Shooting Academy's New Mexico Facility. Two SF Instructors and little old me.

7mm Mag is a fine caliber for snipers if you handload. I will take the 308 and 300 win over it though. They have many more bullet options and you can get Match Ammo from the factories. If I am to handload I would rather hit something with a 220 grain bullet at 2850fps than a 168 from a 7mm Rem at the same speed. If you think my velocity figures are off for this caliber ask Trigger 50, he gets the same without signs of pressure. Start using some RL22 or IMR7828 powders and watch the 220's fly. Just my opinion, but I only needed 28moa to get from 100 to 1000 yards and 3moa for a 10mph wind at 1000 yards.

Dean, congrad's on the book. When's that drag bag coming out

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 01:17:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.34)

On the .300 Win Mag posts, I notice some of the loads listed are maximum loads. I recall when I first started working up loads for my .300 (Shilen, with tight neck)and for my M3(220's at 2650 fps), I started with a mid-range load of H4831 with the first 2 rounds chronographing at 2850 fps (26" barrel). WO! I did'nt have to look at the chronograph because I felt all 17 lbs. of that rifle coming at me. I had to back off 5 gr.'s for the desired velocity. You'all be careful working up those loads.
dan <danr@acnet.net>
Deep South, Texas, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 02:13:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 170.76.33.14)

Pat—I would have guessed this. I bought a box of RemAcc in 1981 and shot an awful group with them (3-4" at 100 yds., Rem 700 BDL, '06) but kept the remainder for the future. But the idea of the velocity intrigued me (projected at 4000 f/s+-, as I remember), along with the idea there was (presumably) no signature on the bullet, assuming it could even be recovered. I understand this had at least someting to do with why Rem. discontinued the load (the good old BATF boys, once again).
Your contention that a follow up round with a jacketed bullet would eliminate any sabot plastic build up seems sound. Now that we have moved into an age of extreme velocities and frangible projectiles of all stripes, my query about the load seems moot. But, like many of us, I like to tinker. I was just wondering if it were possible to put together a low signature bullet/load which would actually SHOOT, using these sabots. Forty bucks is light duty for this day and age. If anyone else has any input, please let me know.

Keith
Keith E. Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 02:47:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.122)

Keith
Keith E. Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 02:48:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.122)

Hi out there in sniper country . I'm currently stationed in the Army 25th id I'm a U.S army and Marine Core sniper school grad and a bunch of other things. I'm getting out of the service here in 2 months, I've been sniping for awhile now. How should i go about trying to get on a police or federal sniper Team?
J <tracker_01r@yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 03:05:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.205.35)

Tom: I put a prethreaded Shilen SS #7 barrel on my Rem 700. The chamber is cut VERY short, So short I would still need a lathe to rough it out. I did alot of other machining on that barrel, set the shoulder forward for a bigger lug, recut the bolt recess, shortened it to 24". The action wasnt trued up very much, lapped the lugs and faced the front. HS set at GO +.001. It shoots 5/8" with Fed Match 168 all day long and probaly could be improved with handloads and of course a squarer action. Personaly, if your going through this much trouble, do it right the first time and have the actin trued and a good barrel fitted by someone who knows what they are doing.
mike S <mws@ecom.net>
USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 03:45:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.138.195.145)

Keith...
It wasn't the BATF that put the Accelerators off the shelves. The Bat boys (actually it was the American forensic assoc.)looked at the round, and decided that there isn't anything left of those little pills from HiVel varmint rifles to match anyway, so it didn't matter whether they had rifling or not.

They went off the shelves because they weren't accurate enough to do what their entended market wanted them to do. Nobody wanted a varmint rifle that shoots 3"+ groups at a hundred yards, and Remington couldn't get them to shoot better, after years of trying.

Pablito.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 04:02:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.103)

OK, 220's at 2850 seems way warm. How long a barrel? Also I bet it beats the crap outta you, right? Not to say that I don't love the 300 mag as well as my 7, it's just that I think the 7 is more user friendly. Somehow I think 168 7mm at 3000 vs 220 30 cal at 2850 is kinda academic on the receiving end, eh? It would really suck to get hit with either. I have tried RL22 with my 7 and it still needs work, at least in my rifle. I have a 8lb keg of H1000 sitting on the shelf so why screw with success? If you have a 7 you don't need a 300 and vice versa. It hasn't been about "need" for a long time:-) I own both calibers and like them both. It's just my "normal" LR gun is the 7. Semper Fi...
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
IL, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 04:56:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.179)

Ken, the 220's at 2850 fps(out of a 26" barrel) was obtained unintentionally. I was looking for the load that would produce 2650 fps. I notice every now and then someone asking for advice on loads and meant to remind the importance of reducing starting loads by 10 percent of listed maximum loads to avoid a "kaboom" instead of the normal "boom" when pulling the trigger.
dan <danr@acnet.net>
Deep South, Texas, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 05:18:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 170.76.33.59)

Prayer: awhile back, someone posted the prayer/speech given by the father of one of the Columbine HS shootings.....

Well - check this one.....

starts here>>>>

Thought you might enjoy this interesting prayer given in Kansas at the
opening session of their Senate. It seems prayer still upsets some people.

When Minister Joe Wright was asked to open the new session of the Kansas Senate, everyone was expecting the usual generalities, but this is what they heard:

"Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask Your forgiveness and to seek your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says, "Woe to those who call evil good" but that is exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our vales. We confess that.

We have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and called it Pluralism;

We have worshipped other gods and called it multiculturalism;

We have endorsed perversion and called it alternative lifestyle;

We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery;

We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare;

We have killed our unborn and called it choice;

We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable;

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building
self-esteem;

We have abused power and called it politics;

We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition;

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it
freedom of expression;

We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.

Search us, Oh, God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and set us free. Guide and bless these men and women who have been sent to direct us to the center of Your will, to open ask it in the name of Your Son, the living Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen".

The response was immediate. A number of legislators walked out during the prayer in protest. In 6 short weeks, Central Christian Church, where Rev. Wright is pastor, logged more than 5,000 phone calls with only 47 of those calls responding negatively. The church is now receiving international requests for copies of this prayer from India, Africa, and Korea.

Commentator Paul Harvey aired this prayer on "The Rest of the Story" on the radio and received a larger response to this program than any other he has ever aired. With the Lord's help, may this prayer sweep over our nation and wholeheartedly become our desire so that we again can be called one nation under God.

"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for everything."

the end <<<<
Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 14:12:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.172.42.2)

Mike M,
I have to agree with you on the 300WM vs the 7MM both are fine long range rounds but the recoil is still to close to call. I have shot some nasty kicking 7MM Mags and if your going to get beat up you might as well have the extra punch of a 30 cal. I liked the 190s in the 300WM, never shot the 220s but I bet they do fly nice. I just got word last night my 6.5x284 will be shipped this next week ,hope to get it bedded and to the range shortly after that for some testing. I ran some figures on it today and it looks like I will be able to get to 1000yds with about 25 MOAs with the 142s and with a Berger, with the .640 BC, well you don't want to know(HA).
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 17:33:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)

If you really like a 30 cal that flies, try a 30/378 Wby with a 210 Berger VLD. and imr 7828 or 50 BMG. With the .640 BC and 3440 fps you only need 17 MOA to get it to a 1000 and you still have enough energy to knock down whatever. TOF is less than a second. Next best thing to a 338 or 50.
Tony Y <ayackowski@rcn.com>
Iselin, NJ, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 18:23:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.97.88.100)

I'm shooting M118 Match ammo fairly good at 300 yds but I've run out of scope adjustment on my Redfield Accutrac 3-9x40. Will switching to medium or high Redfield scope rings give me some more elevation up adjustment so that I can zero at 500 yds.??? Or should I go to the 168gr BTHP or 155gr BTHP Palma bullet to get my additonal elevation??? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
sven <svenska50@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 18:59:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.174.99.55)

Ken, I believe in the separation of church and state.

Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 19:33:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.20.190.1)

300 Win, 220's at 2850fps. I also found that velocity by accident in a less than max load with a 28" bbl. I was about too grains under max. Kick, heck my shoulder nerves died long ago and I dont notice it. Jerry Rice thinks I'm nuts and says use the 190's. As long as these shoot the way they do, I will stick.

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 20:21:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.59)

Tony,
I can't argue that but it also comes with a high price!! Beats you up and by the time you get it figured out and a little practice you need to start over with a new barrel. I read on one of the other sights where a gentleman was shooting a 30-378 and was showing some throat errosion at around the 100 round mark. I see where some guys are necking down the 7mmstw to a 6.5 and a 6mm now talk about something that shoots flat, but for how long. We always have to pay a price either in ballistics or barrels and recoil.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 20:44:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)

The 1st amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:..."
I don't want to start an argument, however, when inviting a Minister Joe Wright to open the Senate session, one would hardly expect a Santa Ria invocation. This amendment has taken as much of a pasting as any other. In my heart, it means just what it says, there will be no religion established by our government. Not endorsed, sanctioned, approved, or tolerated, but established. $.02
Note that this is the amendment screamed about by the "Heather has two Mommies" crowd while they try to throw the @nd amendment in the trash. $.02

On a lighter note, I am trying to neck down a 1 pound Hodgdon bottle to .30 cal. Should I go with large or small primers? Any idea who to turn to for dies?
Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
Portland, Or, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 21:17:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.133.181)

O.K., out of the woodwork I come. I have enjoyed SC for about a year and a half now. Bought my long-range rig about 8 months ago. It is a Savage 10fp, .308 w/ Tasco SS10x42 with mildots. I enjoy the rifle tremendously. I hold 1.1" @ 100 y. and 1.8" @ 200 y. The rifle can probably do better, as I tend to blame the shooter (me) on the fliers.

Anyway, I would like to bed the stock. I have researched the bedding process, but I would like to see pictures of it being done before I ruin the stock (I tend to over think before I leap into something). If anyone could suggest where I could find pictures of a stock being bedded I would appreciate it.

Also I am thinking of purchasing in the future the Choate Varmit stock. Any suggestion, ideas, comments on this stock.

I know I am on the cheap route but I am not financially well off. The more I save, the more I get to shoot. 8^)

Thank you in advance,

D. Hurley

D. Hurley <dhurley@mikemarrs.com>
Middle of, Texas, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 22:12:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.215.10.193)

Jim Mitchell,

No dispute with YOUR belief in the separation of church and state, but read the Constitution carefully and you'll see that there is no such provision. That expression is a bastardization of language, coined by a misinformed fringe of liberalism and carried forth by predominantly non-religious members of our population so as to lighten the weight of morality on an increasingly immoral society. There is no argument that can prove that the Founding Fathers of this great nation intended a government devoid of religion. Instead, they simply restricted a religion IMPOSED by government (as had been the case in England).

Show me a solid example of a society which as survived for more than a hundred years or so without a sound, moral foundation. Remember the Roman Empire? How about the USSR? It ain't happening!

I consider this argument to be on the same plane as the claim that the Second Ammendment refers to hunting arms only. NONSENSE!!

All,

Did you catch the new buzz-name for trigger locks? According to Ozone Al Gore, they are now referred to as "Child Safety Trigger Locks"

Never mind that you are urged by manufacturers never to lock a loaded weapon's trigger for risk of unintentional firing - what's the point of locking an empty weapon? It makes it worth little more than a rock in a self-defense situation.

Out
Roger E. Lays <rlays@zbzoom.net>
PA, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 23:07:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.67.120.227)

I'd be really leary of throwing 210 Bergers at 3400fps. Friend of mine had the 210's come apart at 2950 from his 30/338. This was during the long range week at Perry and needless to say he was mojo pissed off. Berger jackets (J4's, I think) are fairly thin compared to Sierras and the best guess was that the jacket couldn't hold together. 30/378 should be far worse. Maybe just got a bad batch. Semper Fi....
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
IL, USA - Thursday, March 09, 2000 at 23:31:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.177)

Hey guys, Do you have any recommendations or comparison information between the Winchester Model 70 Stealth and the Remington 700 Sendero in .300 caliber? I have bits and pieces of information about each of these, but no real comparison data. I'm aware of Remington's standard of excellence with its trigger/bolt assembly, but for the Winchester I have no clue. Any information regarding the components and accuracy would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Dan
Dan <desdichado19@hotmail.com>
DE, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 01:25:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 128.175.131.21)

Trigger Locks Et. Al.

We have had 'safe storage' provisions in Canada for the last seven years. Trigger locks are not all bad - locking unloaded guns that are NOT under you control is not bad. When you have your gun under your control - no need for the trigger lock. In your nightstand while you are sleeping etc. is still under your control. When you leave the house etc. lock 'em up. I don't aim to give in to gun control people but if it doesn't hurt it make US look all the more reasonable. WE then show that we are willing to be responsible with our guns so WE don't need some one shoving more controls down our throats.

Mind you it never seems to end.

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 01:26:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.142.215)

.30-06 Ackley Improved

I was wondering if anybody here had any experience with the .30-06 Ackley Improved or other improved .30-06 chamberings. Like a lot of people (I suspect), I want something more than .308 Winchester performance but something less than .300 Win Mag recoil, bore erosion and powder consumption. Sadly, the stock .30-06 just wont quite group good enough. Lets assign some somewhat arbitrary requirements for purposes of discussion: its gotta lob a 185 gr. Berger VLD at 2,800 fps. and be capable of holding a true 1 MOA to 1000 yards. Tough, to be sure. I was wondering is the .30-06 Improved chambering does anything to improve accuracy. I think it would about make the velocity requirement. It would, of course, be awfuly convienient if this would solve the problem. If not an .30-06- based cartrige, I would entertain other approaches, like .30-284 perhaps, or .30 Arch., or something on some wacko Newton case. I'm flexible. :)

-Tom

Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, in the hap, hap, happy state of, SC, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 01:37:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)

D.Hurley;
Take that P.O.S. factory stock off buy a Choate if it's what you can afford ,get some Fed.GMM or other "Good" ammo and enjoy your gun. You will get many conflicting opinions on this rig but the "proof is in the puddin'".The combo of Savage,Tasco,Choate is not the choice of professioal snipers worldwide but a damn servicable rig none the less.I shoot a 110fp,Tasco SS,Choate USS and am not ashamed of it,it is consistent accurate,affordable and the extra weight makes my truck ride better:)but if I can see the target it is in grave danger.

Ken;
The faster loading is OUTSTANDING ,thanks
Bruce E. <bgenlvtex@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 02:55:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.195.23)

can someone tell me what the mil-subtension is for 16X.I lucked up into a MK4 16X w mildots.All I've ever used was 10X.got a hotshot 300 Win to put it on.
thanks
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 03:05:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.2.14)

Sven, if you are using a Remington action go with the Badger Ord rings and mounts with the built in 20 moa tapered base. Badger makes an adapter for the rings to take 1" scopes. If not using a Remington contact Armament Technology and see if he has any of his 15 moa tapered scope base shims left.

Gooch
Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 03:32:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.137)

Hey,
This is my first time on this sight and let me say WOW!!! Glad I found it.
I have been interested in getting into Long Range shooting for awhile
I spent time as a PMI in the Corps and would like suggestions on
equip ie. make mod.and Cal. If possible something I don't need a
second morgage for.

Thank you.
Jason <emileeg@earthlink.net>
Springdale, Arkansas, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 03:46:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.141.48)

Hey Guys,

I was watching the news the other night. And they said something about gun control that caught my attention. They are trying to introduce legislation with this new Gun Control BIll that Commrad Cliton is planning to sign by April 1. The law would limmit the number of guns one person can own including hunting rifles. If ever there was a reason to join the NRA it is now for those who have not. But I figure I am preaching to the choir. Also I have been working with a group operation through my special forces unit called JTF6. And I was wondering the Constitutionalty of it as it deals with Posse Comitatus and found a survey that the DOD put out a few years ago and it is alarming as to what they asked. Basicly it was probing to find out weahter or not American soliders would fire on US Citizen if they refused to give up there guns. JTF6 is a combined effort to utalize our ablities agaist drug trafficing and other issues but I never realized how unconstitional it all was till now. Any thoughts on this subject? Have any of you heard of this survey?
Owen Foster <sigma532@yahoo.com>
Texas, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 04:42:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.19.0.220)

Hey Guys,

1st part: non shooting govt stuff:
=================================================
Roger got to it before I did.

The idea of separation of church and state as most Americans perceive it is derived, IMHO, from hearing about the early people seeking a refuge from political persecution in the New World colonies. In our government, there was, by the hands of our forefathers, an inclusion of Judeo-Christian beliefs into the government, but as Roger said, not a mandated religious flavor to be forced upon the people. Does our money not say "In God We Trust"?

I wholly believe that there is a 'moral fiber' that is needed in and is missing from politics.

Let me emphasize: I do NOT vouch for the "Conservative Right". They would have, if they could, a government that is controlled from within their religious constructs. I only am saying that I think that it would be a 'good thing' if decent people, who happen to adhere themselves to some significant moral code of conduct, were to participate in politics with the interest of the PEOPLE in mind (NOT the interest of their subscribed religious establishment).

I've seen too many cases where a self-proclaimed Christian has tried to ram their exact flavor of religion down someone's throat, with the predictable outcome of driving the other person off from Christianity, understandably believing that Christians are maniacal lunatics.

As a nation, it would be heinous to demand that the people adhere to a particular denomination. But, it is NOT a wrong or undesirable thing to have the religion of our country based upon a Judeo-Christian philosophy, as our country WAS established that way, and that the majority of the citizens of this country subscribe to some form of such beliefs. Even among agnostics and atheists, there is a predominant moral level that exists that subscribes to the same goals as most religions, whether or not the dogma of a religion is believed or thought to be myth.

=====================================================

D. Hurley,

The Savage stock has pillars in it; I didn't bed mine, but instead tried to improve the flimsy feel. My suggestion is to first ensure that the barrel is free-floating in the stock. I used my dremel, trimmed on the sides and front of the stock channel to make sure that there wasn't any contact with the barrel. Then I used fiberglass- reinforced bondo to add rigidity to the forearm of the stock. I actually had an old pushrod that I used inside the fiberglass to help act as a structural stiffener, as per the suggestion of a gunsmith buddy of mine... it was cheap, and it improved the stock's feel. It didn't help it's accuracy any, but it wasn't detrimental. I had originally thought to later upgrade the stock, but have now decided to not. Instead, I've got more money going down-range now. I'll save money for a fancy stock to go onto some super-Remington that I may build in the future, but for now this Savage is a better shot than I.

============================================

L8R,
-L

Leslie <lnbright@juno.com>
TN-VA, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 05:05:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.98.92.157)

HELP! I am looking for a longer distance rifle range in Colorado, as near to Denver as possible. I have contacted the NRA Wittington Center in Raton, NM, but I have not been able to get a strait answer on the distance of their range(s). Anything 500-600 yards or longer would be really nice. Thanks Guys!
Patrick Sciaroni <midhill@hotmail.com>
Superior, CO, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 05:38:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.244.79.36)

Does anyone know how to contact Bobby Whittington concerning the Basic Long Range Precision Rifle School being held March 23-26? I tried the link attached to the announcement here in SC and the mail came back as undeliverable. Thanks.
Kevin R. Mussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 09:19:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.164)

I have just been notified that the link to email me in regards to the Basic Long Range Rifle course is not working. My email address is bobbywhit@hotmail.com. Or I can be reached at the following phone numbers;
580-581-3274 Work
580-595-5722 pager
580-479-5559 home
580-585-1237 Cell

I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.
Bobby Whittington

Bobby Whittington <bobbywhit@hotmail.com>
Grandfield, OK, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 14:41:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 164.58.0.246)

Re LOCKS and STORAGE

I think I rocked our boat (judging by the emails) but my belief is the best defence is a good offence. If we as firearm owners can see ways to make ourselves look more responsible and reasonable I believe a majority of 'undecided' non-gun owners would think twice before voting for more restrictions.
As far as most laws (like the mag ban) go they are ill concieved sound bites - most laws are created by anti-gunners - It is time we are the progun crowd say Hey we own them let us determine how they should be stored etc. and then hold us responsible for how we store them.
I wholeheartedly believe in the right to self defence with your firearm, but I also believe when you aren't home lock up your guns be it a safe or other locking device. There are too many idiots out there not to take some precautions.

Just my thoughts

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 15:20:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.139.140)

I re-seated and torqued my 700P DM HS stock last night. The good news is I can see light again on both sides of the barrel. However, it appears I have a slightly crooked V block as the barrel sits off center. This rifle shoots .5 with handloads so I'm not too worried about it but I'm wondering if anyone else has this problem with HS stocks. Apparently, this is a known HS problem. Feedback appreciated.
breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 16:35:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.3.204.222)

Sounds like quite a shot..........
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Sniper Kills Rival Inside Jail

Updated 9:04 AM ET March 10, 2000

TIRANA (Reuters) - An Albanian sniper killed a prisoner relaxing in the recreation room of
a high-security jail in Tirana, the Justice Ministry said Friday.

Ilir Bardhi, who was awaiting trial on charges of killing two men with an anti-tank missile,
was the sixth victim of a feud between rival gangs within the past year.

Police caught the sniper and an accomplice as they tried to flee after the shooting Thursday.

The sniper fired a single shot from the balcony of a building some 500 meters from the
prison, through the window of the prison's third-floor recreation room.

Duncan <bonzer@pacbell.net>
California, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 16:49:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.137.113.219)

Any feedback on the AICS chassis system?
breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 17:04:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.3.204.222)

Kevin on gun locks:
The issue isn't gun locks or how safe your weapon is. There is a dual issue of admitting government regulations into our lives, and that of non-prossecution of criminals in order to stir sentiments to pass more laws. First off is the government regulation: Do I own trigger locks? Not one. I have a safe, and I use it. Do I need locks? Nope. I could just as easily say that if you wanted us to be safe, you would purchase a vault also, but I don't. YOU know your situation better than I do, and WE know our situation better than the government. By granting them the capability to say anything about how we store our weapons, we inherently admit that they have a purpose AND A RIGHT in regulating that aspect of our lives. Once a right is given, it's hardly ever reclaimed except through bloodshed and NO ONE wants that. Next will be a government arsenal where you can check your bolt gun out durring deer season only. Second is the idea that they can change things INCREMENTALLY, through enterprising on emotions brought on by acts of domestic terrorism. Am I cold hearted? Not hardly. But the fact remains that if the 6 year old wasn't living in a crack house, and there wasn't a stolen pistol available, and he hadn't learned morality from crack heads, well, this would be moot. So the solution is: grab the guy that stole the pistol (instant jail time) and the guy that let the kid get ahold of it (instant jail time) and the parents who did dope around the kid (instant jail time) and PROSECUTE!
Do you really think that dope heads are gonna trigger lock their stolen pistols anyway? And just to combat the mass (communist) media, the stats from the FBI show that in America, we have the least ACCIDENTAL shootings now of the last 30 years. Imagine what it could be if the laws were enforced! By the way, you LE guys got my sympathy. I've heard how much you bang your heads against system.
Sorry for the long off subject post, but it had to be said. Now go vote for Dr. Keyes!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 18:46:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)

Brovo you hit it right on the head. But if we hung gun thieve's like we did horse thieve's. I think thief of firearms would drop.

Hot Shot
Hot Shot <HotShot@ aol.com>
Cal, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 20:53:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.24.102.133)

Patrick Sciaroni:

Long Range Shooting? Try the Colorado Rifle Club: www.crci.org

A number of ranges up to 1000 yards, and 50cals are allowed.

$117 to join the first year plus one days work.

Private club with many sanctioned events.

Just East of Denver a short drive down I-70.
15miles past DIA?

Hank <ninesoft2@earthlink.net>
Denver, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 21:06:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.27.84.142)

I have to put in my .02 about the whole trigger lock thing.

It is obvious to everyone that the media and the liberals in congress and the white house are trying to use the outbreak of school shootings as an excuse to take our guns away. However, they have to know as well as anyone that this is not a solution to the very real problem that we are facing, therefore I must conclude that they are only using this horrible trend to meet their own socialist agenda. After all, drugs are illegal yet available everywhere. I have to believe that the same would be the case for guns.

These occurences are clearly the result of irresponsible parents and the break up of our nations moral fiber. As a responsible and law abiding citizen and gunowner I have no problem with instant backround checks and in fact support them whole heartedly. I do not think that just any psycho off the street should be able to walk into the local sporting goods store and walk out with a handgun. I also have no problem with waiting periods. I believe that they serve a very real purpose in helping to eliminate certain crimes of passion. Can anyone name a time when they NEEDED a gun so bad that they could not wait a couple of days to pick it up? I can't. I also support the idea of holding the parents of a child responsible for a gun crime that child commits. That only makes good sense. If that parent had been responsible in the storage of their weapon and the teaching of their child the crime would have been prevented. Therefore, that parent absolutely deserves the full punishment of the law.

However, the idea of limiting the number of firearms that may be purchased by one individual is absolutely ridiculous! It is based on nothing! Am I supposed to believe that someone who owns five guns is more likely to commit a gun crime than someone who owns only one? This is would simply seem to be the first step in the plan to ban guns altogether and it is scary. So called "smart gun" technology is ridiculous and unnecessary. It is simply an attempt to solve a problem without confronting the reality of what the problem really is. Ditto for trigger locks (just on a smaller scale).

On the separation of church and state thing - several people have rightly pointed out that the constitution only states that the government may not force the people to adhere to any set of beliefs. This pathetic skewing of our founding fathers words has only begun in the 20th century. I agree that no public school should have the right to force my son to pray, but how dare they force him not to! Let us not forget that the liberal reading of the constitution that allows people to ban school prayer and practically outlaw religious belief is the same reading that allows them to say "well, surely our founding fathers were talking about muzzleloaders when they wrote the 2nd ammendment. They would have never approved of an AR-15." These people are responsible for the very sad lack of morals in this country. Therefore, I would conclude that the same people who want to take our freedom away by banning guns are in fact at least partly responsible for the escalation of their violent use by our young people!

Sorry for the length.
JHal <jhall@family-net.net>
IL, USA - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 22:28:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.0.57.59)

Trigger locks: I don't think they're such a bad thing. Especially where children are concerned. I'm from Canada as well, and I think the mandatory trigger lock is the most positive move our gov't has made towards public safety concerning firearms. Though ,the rest of our laws suck.

Safes are a great method of protective storage, However, not everyone can afford them. The trigger lock is cheap and effective. All the gun manufacturers should include them with new firearms. When I bought my Savage 112FV it included a lock. I thought that was a thoughtful gesture on Savage's part.

I don't think it's infringing on anyone's rights to ensure that your firearms are safely secured. It's just common sense. If trigger locks can prevent only one needless tragedy, it would be worth it.

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Friday, March 10, 2000 at 23:29:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.222.48.30)

I agree that all manufacturers should supply trigger locks with their weapons. I even believe that any responsible gun owner should be expected to secure his weapon. Commom sense tells us that. The thing that I have a problem with is Uncle Sam telling me exactly how I should secure it and that nothing else is acceptable. Besides, George Bush made a very interesting point. He asked "How are you going to enforce it?" Clearly there is a better solution to be found. Hopefully the government will not see that solution in the so called "smart guns".

The other thing I have trouble with is some of the specific trigger locks that could become mandatory. I have seen some that are combination locks permanently built into the grip. I don't whether it only has to be operated once, and then manually relocked or if, for instance, a magazine change automatically relocks the weapon. In any case these would seem slow and cumbersome to unlock, especially in a stressful situation.
JHall <jhall@family-net.net>
IL, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 00:06:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.0.57.12)

May I weigh in on the gun lock deal?

Most of us old fellars here remember when the old mans service pistol was unholstered and laid on the dresser as soon as the shift was over. The shotguns and rifles were scattered in various places all over the house. In my case I also remember these words: "you touch these guns without me being here and you will wish you had been shot". The look on the face said it all and I can honestly say that I never did touch them when he wasn't there. My old man was a cop and the thing that I used to look forward to from the time I was 6 was to clean his service revolver every week, with him looking over my shoulder. My daughter was raised with guns and she got the same speach and THE look. You can ask her now and she will tell you even at 19, that she still wouldn't touch them unless I was there. So much for history.

Folks, if I had it to do over again with her, my first rule for myself would be that none of my weapons would be outside of a safe or without a trigger lock unless it was on my hip. After 19 years, and hopefully I won't die before I get two little twin blonde headed grandkids to ruin, I have had a lot of time to think about the fact that those weapons were available not only to my daughter but to other little crumb crunchers and curtain hangers that might have been in the house. They may not have had the benefit of a parent that knows how to teach respect for weapons. If I couldn't have afforded a safe, I would have made damn sure they had a trigger lock on them and I would have built a lock box for them. The only time they would be out of the box and unlocked was like I said before, when they were on my hip.

Now I say preceding as a prelude for the following stance on trigger locks. I hate and detest the government's constant mothering and regulation of my life, BUT:
With the x generation of young yuppies and soccer moms out there buying handguns, loading them and never taking a shooting course or firing the weapon, the requirement of trigger locks TO BE SOLD WITH THE GUN AND INSTALLED AT ALL TIMES OTHER THAN WHEN THE PARENT HAS PROXIMAL CONTACT WITH THE WEAPON makes sense. At least, it will give the common sense challenged purchaser of a weapon a direct method to use to keep the little muchkins from shooting themselves by accident. Whether they have enough common sense to actually figure out how to use them is another matter. I think that the parents of a kid [I still have to define the age of a kid] shooting themselves or someone with a weapon that is not locked up in a safe, lockbox or trigger locked ought to be shot themselves because that is pure neglect.

Now, if a weapon owner has weapons in the house that are stolen and used in a crime, we have a different matter. Trigger locks in that case would be of no use because if you want to get the lock off you can. A hacksaw to the trigger guard can make the lock useless and the weapon doesn't need the trigger guard to function. A thief is a thief and if he steals a gun with a lock it, the lock won't be there long.

The bottom line here folks is that I may be mellowing out with age but with the mellowing comes wisdom and realization. The realization that a weapon that I owned and kept in my house could be used by my child or another child to shoot another or himself is something that I could not live with and I would do everything I could to keep it from happening. I hope to have those little grandyoungins one of these days to teach the OLD ways of gun respect. But, I also realize how damn quick kids are when you turn your back and ignore a potentially bad situation. If I live long enough, when my grandyounguns come to visit or spend the night, all the weapons will be in the safe (all but one is now anyway and it stays in the pocket) except for the one in the pocket. At night it will come out of the pocket and go on the nightstand and the bedroom door will be locked so the little darlings can't come in while I'm asleep and scare grandpa with it.

It never ceases to amaze me the total lack of some folks common sense and if a trigger lock can overcome the common sense challeged weapons buyers, I am for it.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 00:28:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.59.58)

M14 threads and religeon in the schools:

(sigh)

First, something remotely related to the nominal subject matter of this board: does anybody here happen to know what size and pitch screw is used for the scope mounting provisions on the side of the M14 rifle reciever? It would appear not to be a common hardware store item: smaller than 1/4", larger than a #10. Near As I can figure its about 28 TPI, anyway.

Now, religeon in the schools: I address this question to those who promote the free expression of religeon in the public schools: Is this something that you have *realy* thought all the way through? I ask this because you may not be aware of just how big a can of worms you are opening. As you are aware, America today is not nearly as homogenius today as in decades past. Americas public schools are filled with kids that are of many different faiths, some distinctly different than the WASPy little world that most of us grew up in. When you send your kid into this new marketplace of ideas that you seek to create, what makes you so sure that the kid will come out with the same beliefs and values you sent him or her in with? Just how square are you with the idea of your kid coming home with Hare Krishna, Church of Latter Day Saints, Muslim or (enter name of religeon that annoys and-or frightens you here) literature in hand? Why, just to add some spice to the mix, there might even be the odd full-blown cult recruiter mixed in for good luck. When the folks (mostly Christians) than support this can tell me that, in their heart of hearts, they are cool with the idea of their little daughter reading a pamphlet entitled "Getting Wild with Wicca!", I'll sign off on it. In the mean time however, why don't we just not go there. As a future public high school teacher that would be required to help referee this mess you seek to create, I ask you to give me a break, too.

And dont give me, "We'll only let the real, mainstream religeons in". Talk about a slippery slope, and in Teflon boots no less...

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, in the Buckle-of-the-Bible-Belt State of, SC, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 00:47:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)

dear friends,
I have made a table for incline shooting with true minutes of angle using 168gr BTHP Match 2600 FPS bullet. if anyone is intrested in this table please e-mail me at andystev@hotmail.com
Andy Stevens <andystev@hotmail.com>
oshkosh, W.I., USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 01:49:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 171.226.58.123)

Tom,
Just stepped out to the garage and found the mounting screw on my Springfield scope mount is 12/32. And yes I am much happier w/ the BPM mount. Want to buy my Springfield mount? Just kidding.
Hope this helps.
Spud,
Out
Dennis <usmcspud@aol.com>
Merced, Kalifornicateya, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 01:53:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.35)

Pablito—

I love a reasoned response. I suspected something like this, but didn't have the research to follow it up. I love this site!

Keep up the good work.

Keith
Keith E. Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 02:06:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.11)

Gun Locks:
Question for you all. Is placing a lock on a firearm not somehow akin to having an automobile in the driveway with an empty tank of gas? At least in the sense that, should an emergency arise (heart attack, ruptured appendix), you can then go into the garage and put gasoline into the tank, THEN drive to the hospital?

Just a thought.

Keith
Keith E. Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 02:13:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.11)

One more thought on Gun Locks:

Taking a bit more of a cynical approach, is it too much to ask of parents with small school children that they be required to send their kids off to the classroom wearing body armor?

You laugh, but in all seriousness, in the early seventies the community of New Rochelle, New York, passed a law (or city ordinance) making it illegal to sell aerosol cans of paint to anyone under the age of 18, IN ORDER TO PREVENT MINORS FROM PAINTING GRAFITTI ON VIADUCTS AND OVERPASSES. Does this brand of Democratic "logic" echo anything here, with respect to the gun lock/trigger lock/smart gun debate?

Okay. I'm done. Have a good weekend everybody.
Keith E. Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 02:34:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.11)

Jim,
Did you have any luck necking down that 1 lb bottle of powder to .30 cal? I had to anneal mine, then I used heat shrink tubing and as of now I'm down to .50 cal! I think you had a great idea! :)
Frank
Frank <kubikari@goplay.com>
N.Bend, OR, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 03:16:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.214.112.175)

HELP

DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW WHAT THE UNIT VALUES ARE TO THE GRADUATIONS FOUND ON THE V.R.C. CAMS, BETWEEN THE 50 YARD MARKS, OF A SIMMONS PRO-50 4-12X50MM AO SCOPE? I AM ASKING THIS QUESTION BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF GRADUATIONS VARIES BETWEEN 50 YARD MARKS, AND WAS WONDERING IF IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF DIVIDING 50 BY THE NUMBER OF GRADUATIONS.

HOW MUST AN ANIMAL BE BRACKETED BY THE RANGE FINDER RETICLE IN THE ABOVE SCOPE? SHOULD IT BE BRACKETED FROM THE BASE OF THE NECK/TOP OF THE SHOULDERS, TO THE BASE OF THE CHEST/STOMACH? I AM ASKING THESE QUESTIONS BECAUSE THE INFORMATION SUPPLIED WITH THE SCOPE I RECENTLY PURCHASED IS RATHER VAGUE ON THESE MATTERS.

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY PERFORMANCE INFORMATION ON THE YUGOSLAVIAN M-76 SNIPER RIFLE?
JOHN PILEPICH <IvanaJohnR@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 03:19:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.194.186)

Trigger locks.....
I used to be of the mindset of got no use for them. Now, I can see some of the "common sense" of the issue since I have a curtain climber now. She has shown extreme ingenuity and intelligence in getting to/reaching what she wants. Recently, at the age of 16 months, she stacked up boxes to make steps to climb onto a garbage can to climb onto the kitchen counter to reach a box of cookies while I was covertly watching from the doorway! She does this sort of shit all the time, takes after me I guess.
BUT:
I have and use multiple safes, that I either personally made, or heavily modified. I used to weld for a company that specialized in security doors & windows, blast doors & windows, teller windows and other bank type stuff that was subcontracted for Diebold and Lefevure, GSA vault doors, and various other "special order" high security products (I once worked on a door that was supposed to withstand a direct hit from a Tornado missle and still function, at least that was what the engineer said. I think it went to Kuwaite). Any way, all but the carry weapon, my service rifle (that is locked into a nylon tac case and stored in a secure place), and whatever disassembled project I am working on (currently M40A1) are kept locked in the safes. Do I need trigger locks on the majority of my weapons? Only if I really want to piss off a group of herniated thieves. After they went through the hassle of liberating a safe that is really heavy and anchored into the cement floor, then finding a way to get it oped without damaging the contents, only to realize that they then had to "break into" each firearm......Maybe it isn't such a bad idea after all. If they manage to get any of my guns, they definitely worked overtime for them.
Steve U. <hockyref@bellatlantic.net>
weather can't make up its' mind, Here in SW PA, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 05:43:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 151.201.137.29)

After that long tirade...
Hey 'Lito (or any one else), do you happen to know the thread size and pitch used to modify a case for a Stoney point OAL tool? I can't see sending cases to them to drill and tap when I probably have the tools I need just getting dusty in my old tool box.

Steve U. <hockyref@bellatlantic.net>
snows due next week , in SW Pa, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 05:49:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 151.201.137.29)

Man, when I stir the pot....

First off to any of our Canadian brothers: Please note that at no point did I ever say that trigger locks were a bad idea or not waranted in some homes. If I didn't have a safe, I'd have a bunch of them, and probably a heavy vinyl covered chain to "tether" them to the wall. That having been said, my premise is, and has always been, that our constitution expressedly forbids this kind of law. Our 10th amendment (the final bill in our bill of rights) says that whatever rights were not specifically set out in the constitution for the government are strictly the arena of the individual states and the people that are their citizens. Thus, if I ALLOW the federal government to pass a law stipulating that I will use a trigger lock, I am undermining my own states rights, and indirectly my countries constitution. Of course, I'm physically incapable of that :-)
What it all boils down to in the end is: either you take responsibility for yourself and your family, or you don't. If you don't, and require the government to take responsibility for you, then you needn't a weapon in the first place, as you haven't hit maturity yet. Give the people that can think for themselves the option of addressing their own needs and purchasing whatever they feel best suits those needs. By the way, love your country. Even Quebec. VERY pretty and pristene, besides, it's the only time I get to use my French lessons any more :-)

Boltster: didn't know you were that OLD dude :-) I got the identical treatment from my Dad too. NEVER touched any of his weapons without permission (although, if I ever asked, he would unload whatever and then hand it to me for however long I wanted) even to this day. Of course, back then the country in general had more "moral fiber" and you just didn't hear of the kind of things back then that we have today. Degredation of society is the problem, more federal government micromanagement isn't the solution. On the good side of things, I HONESTLY beleive that your introduction of weapons in the home to the grandkiddoes will set them up with a lifetime of safety in its own right. Isn't that what Eddie Eagle is all about?

And now to Tom Simpson: You are MOSTLY correct there, but there is a solution that is almost so simple that most folks don't see it. School vouchers. Or better yet, no school taxes with the families of the students paying tuition to keep the school solvent. If I don't want my son (or possibly daughter in the future) involved with religion X, I send him to a school that has a platform built on religion Y. No sweat. Soon enough, there would be schools set up for every religion under the rainbow, with of course, different curriculum. I might have to wind up driving him an extra 20 or 30 minutes to school, or moving our residence closer, but this is of little consequence in comparison. The end goal here is that no one should be offended by some type of religion (and yes, I agree that even a "non-denominational" prayer could offend people of some religions) being forced on them, but in the current case the educrats (like that word??) decide that people of ALL religions should be offended by the lack of CAPACITY of prayer. Unless you consider (as I do) some of the "alternative lifestyle", "death", "health" (sex ed) and other classes such as Marxism (revisionist history) and deep ecology (science) as offensive religions that are forced openly on children. I promise that I would not be nearly as offended at my son bringing home literature of any religion as I would be of required reading of "Jaime has two mommies". Of course, this is also a symptom of the lack of moral fiber in our country, as this also wasn't heard of (along with school shootings and so forth) in our childhood. Of course, there would be the other "side effects" such as a higher demand for good teachers, who have their salaries determined by capitalism rather than federal funding, improved teaching, etc.

Now, I'm sorry for stirring all this, and I'm gonna just read for another month or so. Just feel like I've taken up too much band width, so you have my sincerest "Sorry".
Bravo <Bravo76@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 07:08:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.137)

Isn't this Snipercountry not Theologycountry?

I'm saddened to see that we have to drag religion into the good 'mix' we have going here. We are drawing 'lines' in the sand that only further divide our already small, close-knit group at a critical time in history.

Regardless of what our founding fathers chose to believe - times, people, and countries change; I will admit though, that this is not always for the better.

Please dont push religion into the good thing we have going here and divide us up.

I'm a regular reader, but wont post my name because my beliefs are not CHRISTIAN but are EASTERN in nature. How many of you are offended that I dont believe in J.C. let alone ANY god?

Just because a persons not christian does NOT mean that they have moral standards that are less ethical or less 'good' than a christians morals.

When you meet a non-christian, forget for a second what god (if any) that they believe in. Ask yourself if they are good people.

-Do they hurt others?
-Are they compassionate to those less fortunate?
-Do they respect and honor their parents/spouse/family?
-Do they not infringe on others rights unduly?
-Do they treat others as they would like to be treated themselves?
-and so on....

These things are not strictly the traits of a good CHRISTIAN but of a good HUMAN BEING.

Allow me to have my faith without critisim and I will do the same for you.

Thanks,
~A concerned 'REGULAR'
A concerned REGULAR.... <Karma@dharma.com>
USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 09:01:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.74.73.241)

Ken Just logged on today after a busy week and read the prayer by Pastor Wright. It was terrific. We should send that to every legistlator we know including Bill and Hillary. Thank you for that.

AL Osstapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
WOW!!!!, Ohio, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 09:56:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.144.4.49)

Well, I don't think you guys have to be THAT old! I am 36 and I got the same "Don't touch until I am there" parenting from my dad. Still follow it, too. He wasn't a cop, but we had many guns in the house. Now I have two girls, and they are starting to bring friends home. I don't worry about my two, but the others, well, I have trigger locks and a safe now.

As to the religion thing, Karma, I think your beliefs are yours, and I think not one bit less of you because of them. The Constitution I swore to uphold says that you may believe what you want, and you don't have to believe what I want. My interpretation, of course. I'm not military, just a small town cop.

Thanks for the help with the M1A1 problem. Spud, I got the book yesterday. Definately head space problem. Guess we'll see how we fix it, eh.

Stay safe, all
Michael <s4b1106@micron.net>
Shelley, Idaho, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 12:32:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.253.13)

Sarah Brady country??...

I think this trigger lock thing is righteous "Right-On" thread.
You guys really got the "Kool-aid" lines down pat. Excuse me, but I gotta' barf at this warm/fuzzy poopie!

"If it just saves only ONE LIFE, it will be worth it!"... how many times have I heard that piece of illogical crap in the halls of congress, when bad, or un-constitutional legislation was being proposed?... about eleventy million times.

If you believe that, how about...

Mandatory Alcohol/liquor safes... It'll solve the teenage drunk driving problem... "If it just saves only ONE LIFE, it will be worth it!"

A national 20 mph speed limit... "If it just saves only ONE LIFE, it will be worth it!"

No sales of power tools without a certificate of training... "If it just saves only ONE LIFE, it will be worth it!"

Mandatory requirement that all electric appliances be plugged in by a licensed electrician... "If it just saves only ONE LIFE, it will be worth it!"

At a time that we've heard so many bad gun bills proposed, with an obvious goal, how you guys can swallow this Kool-aid is beyond me.

This gun lock crap is the same style of word play on the non-shooting public, as the "Deadly Assault Rifle" (and then the "Deadly Assault Pistol") deal... and now the "Loop-hole gun shows" that now should be banned!

We had it in Konnecticut, where an angry mother got one of the first trigger lock laws passed. So she got a law passed that requires all guns to be locked from the counter of the gun store to the car... with a trigger lock !!
Question # ONE! - how many accidental shootings involving children have occurred in the parking lots of gun stores... "ZERO"... how much safer did she make the world for children... NADA!

Ah you say, so it's harmless, so what, just take it off when you get home... what's bad about that?
Well, now that we had an innocent "GUN LOCK" law... and it would be easier to modify it, once in place, than to pass a real bitch law in the first place.
So then came the complaint (from the same woman that discovered this lobbying stuff is fun, makes you important, gets you on the 6:00 o'clock news, and it gets you money!)... she says the locks aren't strong enough, and the owners are taking them off at home... so lets MAKE THEM use the locks... we'll make it a first class felony to have a gun without a lock unless you were shooting it.
Carry it in your car trunk without a lock "Bingo"... busted! Have it unlocked in a home without kids and Bingo... busted... go to court... cop a plea for a suspended sentence... Bingo... never own a gun again!... and if your gun is used in a crime, it's your fault because if you "REALLY" had a trigger lock on it, it couldn't be used in a crime".

The real problem with the gun lock/trigger lock legislation is there is no interest in safety of kids. It's about slowly re-defining the terms, just like the "Assault Rifle" thing. First, an assault rifle is a military machine gun shooting a low powered cartridge (the official definition)... then it becomes a semi-automatic that looks like a machine gun... then a gun that has removable magazine... Yadda, Yadda.
When Mayor Dinkins in New York, finely passed their own "Assault Rifle Ban"... they went to the registration lists (Registration lists??? Oh yeah... they registered all rifles about 30 years ago "For safety of the kids")... well, mano, they went to the lists, and looked up everybody that had ANY semi-auto, and went after them. Including the .22's with a tube magazine, and Ruger 10-22's... (because you could put an "Assault Magazine" in them)... Bingo! Now a FELONY for possession in New York. Dinkins "Did it for the kids"!

In Jersey... if you "CAN" can put a large magazine in it (even if you don't own one)... bingo Busted!! Felony... no more guns for life.

On the trigger locks... it's the same thing... it will sound nice and warm/fuzzy... it'll save little "cute" kids... and one day you will wake up and ask "How the hell did we get here?"

Question # TWO - If it's just to save the lives of kids, why does the group that pushes and supports all trigger/gun lock legislation... oppose all gun safety training, in spite of the overwhelming stats that prove that gun safety training is the most effective form of gun/child safety, and it's effectiveness has been proven over and over. It's because it "Ain't about the kids"... IT IS ABOUT THE GUNS, you dummies, AND THOSE THAT OWN THEM... it's about YOU!!

Wake up guys, you are feeding the dog that's gonna bite you in the ass.

Am I against safety locks... NO. I have a 1200 pound pistol safe on the front porch, and a 2500 pound rifle safe in the garage, and the house gun is in one of those button combo lock box thingies.

But this stuff shouldn't be in law... the laws are written by people that know nothing about guns, nothing about safety locks, or gun safety in general, and don't care anyway, 'cuz that's not their real purpose... their real goal is YOU!

On God... because your name is Chang, it doesn't mean you are Buddhist... and because it's Smith, it doesn't mean you are Christian...

If you guys are dumb enough to argue about God on this Site (or any other site)... and argue what the "Founding Fathers" meant... you need some oxygen.

How many of you couch potato "Constitutional Experts" have really studied the Constitution, and read the Federalist papers fully... and the related papers that followed?
How many of you have read them more that 2 times... until you do... take your opinions of what the founding fathers "Meant" and go back to watching CBS 6:00 o'clock news, cuz you ain't even close!

I'm gonna' take a break for some fresh air at...

http://www.hampsterdance.com/

It's more grown up.

(does anyone on this site shoot long range rifles anymore??)

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 12:37:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.3)

hey Pablito,
I still shoot,does that mean I can't hang out here anymore.
need another set of them bino's.wife took em over,lucky if I see em once a month.
A nice crappy morn in mid-tennesse,think I can call in a coyote or 2.
outta here.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 12:47:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.182)

'Lito!

Breathe In, then Out,

Innnnnnn.............

Now

OOOOOOuuuutttt..........

Relax and tone with me

REMMMMMMM...............

REMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....................

REMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....................

There I believe the fold has returned to normal, and the discussion of marksmanship and the pursuit of the 1000 yard headshot.

Any kind of safety device is a placebo for professional training for those warm - fuzzy - feeling - Volvo driving - leftist scumballs who compensate for their poor child raising and discipline skills, ignorance of firearms safety, and beliefs that they are the Elite of America(No insult is meant to the auto makers, or non US S/C Volvo owning posters, rich safety minded shooters, et. al. just the liberal yuppy inbred offspring of the America trashing hippies of the 1960's and 1970's, BURN IN HELL!)

FYI, I did an article on trigger safety devices way back in April of 1993 for The American Rifleman here is the closing blurb FWIW:

"Before anyone becomes lulled into a false sense of security, it must be remembered that any of these devices provide only deterrence to immediate unauthorized use of a loaded defensive firearm. The Only sure, safe way to prevent injury is to keep all firearms unloaded, securely locked up, and most importantly, verify that any firearms is unloaded each and every time you touch it."

I now return you to your normally scheduled programs

Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 13:36:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.46)

Belated comments on removal of fouling and light firing pins. Just got back on SC after a short trip....

A long 5/16 drill is the absolute quickest way to get ALL that fouling out (.30 cal), AND it will never foul again!

I made a Rem 700 firing pin out of titanium and aluminum that cut the weight from 637 (stock pin) to 205 grains. Dry fire sound went from THUNK to >tic<. Just to try and find the limit, I took 5 coils off the stock spring and was getting about 2% misfires, mostly on milsurp ammo. Went back up to a stock spring and have had no further misfires. I have not done any scientific comparisons in accuracy between this and the stock pin but my impression is that it did not make a significant difference; but then this change was made at a time when the system as a whole was not shooting in a very impressive manner (myself being part of that system!).

'S no big job to take a stock pin and reduce the weight by near 30% with a single deep flute down its length and a little creative minimalism at the shoulder.

From other comments it sounds like sometimes it helps and sometimes not. Don'tcha hate it when a magic bullet turns out to not be magic afterall?

Still hoping for someone to come up with a low-value SKS or something so I can continue the underwater experiments... anyone?
Ned-goes-BANG
Nec <michigun@hotmail.com>
xx, MI, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 14:25:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.136.22)

OK, a thoroughly chastised Boltster dude takes the following pledge:

"I, Boltster dude, will never sway from the subject of long range shooting and related stuff on this site again."

Sorry guys, I sucked myself into that discussion. Politics are like guns, everyone has their likes and dislikes. Sometimes I forget that this is a shooting site. Won't happen again.

A humble Boltster dude does a slow crawl back to the bunker.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 15:21:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.191.5)

Trigger lockes and School shootings...

I have a question to pose to all of you. Do people really think that trigger lockes would stop someone
be them children or adults from using a firearm? Not that there a bad idea to use around small children
especially if you keep and maintain a loaded firearm in the house.
However its hard to tell your towering assailent to hold on a sec while I unlock my SIG....

As for the mentally challenged representatives we have so absentmindedly elected into office who are trying
to shift the blame from personal responsability to the fault of firearms is ignorant.

The Kids/young adults who are responsable for the shooting in Colo. would have accomplished the task
gun or no gun, triggerlock or no triggerlock. What ever became of old-fashoned parenting? The firearms
in my house as a child were not to be touched ever..... until I learned all about saftey tought by a stern
man I revered as the ruler of my world. From the time I was 5 firearm safty was drilled into my brain sometimes
with a switf kick in the @!# I learned as will my children.

I have never seen a firearm get up and shoot someone by itself. Not even in the Marines where i served as a PMI
and saftey instructor( and believe me some of the guys on the range would have done better if they had.)
Anyway Trigger lockes? I don't believe they will cure the problem, just delay it for an hour or two while they pick it.

Sincerely, Jason

Jason Lee <emileeg@eatrhlink.net>
Springdale, Arkansas, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 16:07:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.140.77)

A THOUSAND APOLIGIZES FOR MY OFF TOPIC RAVINGS

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Bitterer than HELL in, Canada - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 16:29:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.144.93)

Headline, NEW YORK TIMES, January 1st, 2002. "Senate To Vote On Bill Requiring Gun Owners To Register Gun Safe Combinations With Local Law Enforcement Agencies".

Interesting that the very people (CNN, ABC, NBC, Hollywood, et. al.) who expend so much effort and rhetoric on the protection of the first ammendment are the same ones so staunchly opposed to the second. (Censorship? Not on your life. I don't care how much Television and Cinema violence influence your children!)
No, it ain't about long range shooting, but discourse is good. The only way we're gonna stand up for what we believe in is to get good and pissed off. It wins revolutions.

Okay. Now I'll shut up (til next week).
Benoist, Keith E. <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 16:52:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.45.211.162)

'lito:

"I think this trigger lock thing is righteous "Right-On" thread.
You guys really got the "Kool-aid" lines down pat. Excuse me, but I gotta' barf at this warm/fuzzy poopie!

"If it just saves only ONE LIFE, it will be worth it!"... how many times have I heard that piece of illogical crap in
the halls of congress, when bad, or un-constitutional legislation was being proposed?... about eleventy million
times."

When I was 10 yrs. old I lost a close friend who accidently shot himself while cleaning his .22 rifle when his parents were not home. Apparently the gun had not been stored safely and was loaded.Certainly not a very responsible thing for his parents to do.

Now they have to live with their tragic mistake for the rest of their lives. The boy's older brother found him lying in a pool of blood. The brother required many hours of councelling to help him through it. The brother was 13 at the time.

Safe storage laws may have helped prevent this unfortunate tragedy had they been in place at that time. It's hard to say, but I'd be willing to bet that it would have.The boy's access to the rifle may have prevented him from accidently shooting himself.

Afterall, his intention was to only clean the rifle. It wasn't the kind of incident where one would destroy a locked case and dismantle a trigger lock only to clean a rifle. It wouldn't have been worth his trouble to do so.

The rationale behind the safe storage provisions of our Canadian laws are simple. Most everyday responsible citizens obey the law because they want to conform to the laws of the land. By making trigger locks and safe storage provisions law, it is enforcing the already widely held belief that safe storage of firearms should be of major concern to everyone.

Now...fast forward 20 yrs. ahead. Like Steve U. I have a very curious little girl who is just a little over 2 yrs. old. It's only natural for them to explore the world they now live in. That's how they learn. If you don't stroe your firearms safely with small inquisitive children in the home, then you are inviting disaster to occur.

Now here's yet another boring story from my little life:

When I was around 1 year old my parents took my to visit my father's uncle who had never seen me since I was born. Well, my father's uncle owned an automatic handgun for home defense that he kept loaded on a shelf.

My father, who was not familiar with firearms, picked it up out of curiosity to look at it. Not knowing that the pistol was loaded and ready to fire, he looked down the sights on the barrel and pulled the trigger. The gun went off and my father killed his uncle's television. From what I was told, I was resting on the carpet about 4 feet away from the tv.

My father and his uncle never spoke again after the incident. My parents have a pathological fear of firearms as a result. They look at me as the anti-Christ as I pack up my gear to go shooting.

Perhaps now you are able to comprehend why some individuals may want trigger locks and safe storage provisions as law?

Do you have kids 'lito? Perhaps you can relate to where Bolt, Steve U. and myself are coming from.

Safe storage is EVERYONE'S responsibility. I'm lucky enough to have a safe. Not everyone isn't. Trigger locks are just an affordable alternative. You either use them or you don't.

As far as making it law? I'm not an American so I really don't have an opinion on how your country should govern itself. That's up to you people to decide.

The gun control debate is certainly a very emotionally charged topic of discussion. When you have international forums like this, you have to expect to get a wide range of views and beliefs based on the cultural, ethnic, and historical backgrounds and life experiences of the people on this forum.

Yes, this may be all "Kool-Aid" for some.

I'm personally glad our country has some reasonable control measures on firearms ownership.However, within the last 10 yrs. it's really become ridiculous and full of BS.

Someone asked how a trigger lock law would be enforced. Well up here in Canada it's one of those things where if you do get cought breaking the law, you'll be fined and probably lose your firearms for up to a year or possibly more. Getting them back will not be very easy either.

For example, if the police are called to a domestic dispute, the first thing they want to know is if there are any firearms in the dwelling. Presumably for their protection and those involved in the dispute. If there are firearms present, the police will want to inspect them to make sure that they haven't been involved in the dispute. If the police discover that the firearms are not properly stored, the police then lay charges.

This is one of the most common ways people get charged under the storage requirements of our laws. By the way, 2 weeks ago I came home from vacation in sunny Florida. There was a murder-suicide in my town on the day I arrived. The husband shot his estranged wife with a rifle that was in the home.

I knew the people through the business I am employed with. Ironically enough, the wife's peace bond against her husband arrived at the police station an hour before the shooting took place.

Other situations include routine traffic stops where motorists have firearms present in the vehicle.

Here in Canada, when transporting handguns and para-military type restricted firearms, they are required to be in a locked case, trigger locked, and stored in a locked trunk, if the vehicle has one. Otherwise they must be stored out of plain sight as not to be highly visable to other individuals.

Well that's my $.02 worth on this subject. Just remember Kool-Aid is only pennies a glass !

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 17:35:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.222.48.30)

SAFE STORAGE ENOUGH ALREADY,

We aren't going to agree so lets drop it.
I've offered my thoughts and that kicked up a pile of email.

For those who oppose - No-one is saying that guns under your control must be locked. So the excuse me while I unlock my SIG isn't a justifiable answer. What would happen when your out and someone steals your SIG or a child finds it. We can't control human behaviour (as much as the ANTI-GUN crowd like to say) but we can attempt to mitigate against tragedy.

For those in favour - I think most responsible owners don't leave guns lying around and to say that a trigger lock would have stopped that 6 year old from taking the gun is STUPID - 1) It was stolen 2) criminals have already broken the law by definition so why would a law help

I think that in most cases solid gun safety and awareness would prevent theses accidents. We live is a disposable society where we can take pills etc. to 'cure' everything from pregnancy to insecurity. What we (as a society) need is to awake and realise that all actions have consequences and we have a responsibility to face those consequences.
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 20:05:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.144.194)

Jim and Frank:
Be sure to sort your cans. I have found that the tin of the Winchester Ball Powder cans is much thicker than that of most of the other manufacturers, thus less case capacity. I have experienced some powder crushing with the longer .30 bullets seated deep enough to clear my magazines. These may even vary from lot-to-lot, so you should weigh cans for consistency.

The old square Hodgdon cans had the best consistency of neck tension, I suspect because they were not threaded but had that neat little pop top. Machining sizing dies and chambering the rifle to proper headspace was a trick. Sure made it easy to index the round from shot to shot tho.

I have never been able to overcome the eccentricity of the neck on the IMR cans. Any suggestions?

Thanx, all, I feel better now. (I gotta giggle, imagining a newby reading this site for the first time. HUH?)
Paul <paul_f_mickey@ameren.com>
Spfld, il, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 20:19:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.51.215.248)

I'm a newbie with rifles. I've shot pistols on and off (recreationaly) for 10 years. Well, I traded a Glock for a Savage Tactical 110FP with a Tasco Proghorn 3-9 power scope.
I want to upgrade the scope. I've got about $500 in the budget. I've read through alot of this site and frankly, it's become information overload.
I would appreciate suggestions for a scope. Something that would fit my budget. And that would be versatile because I really dont know where I'm going in this new (to me) sport. I'm not going to jump into 1000 yard shoots but who knows, maybe some day if I improve??
Obviously I'm not LE or military. But I hope you dont hold that against me... too much.
I was looking at the Tasco SS10x42-M and CU840X56M. Actually I've never associated Tasco with "high quality" scopes but your forum shows some respect for them.
Leupold has many many choices and a great reputation. And there are other manufactures with excellent products.
Anyway, I really dont know. Fixed power or variable. Milliradians or MOA? What's best to learn on?
I need some help and guidance.
I'll continue reading but I'm hoping some of you with experience will give me the benefit of your experiences.
Thanks in advance,
Richard
Maubo@tampabay.rr.com
Richard <Maubo@tampabay.rr.com>
Tampa, Fl., USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 20:36:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.6.27)

'Lito, hamsterdance? What the hell? How did you come across that?
My $.02 on dancing marmots...

Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
PDX, Or, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 20:42:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.133.17)

More Slam Fires.

Last week I wrote about problems I attributed to Lake City Ammo, my M1-A, and slam fires. Three days ago I went to the range with a very clean M1-A. In twenty rounds (I inspected all the primers before hand, all Lake City Match M118) I had three more slam fires.
For those who have never had this experience, it is very unsettling. For those who have, I am desperately seeking advice. This rifle is brand new! I bought it about a year ago but never fired it until this past December. To date I have fired exactly one hundred-eighty rounds through it, all factory, Mil Surplus. To date I have had eight slam fires. I shoot left handed, and I am beginning to visualize an operating rod scar across my forehead and yet another broken nose (best case scenario).
Should I just send this thing back to Springfield and let them deal with it? I read everything I could find in the Duty Roster, Hot Tips, and articles sections. Since the titanium firing pins are not (apparently) available for the M1-A, I have no idea what can be offered to correct this problem. For every person who suggests a headspace problem, I have someone else tell me it can't be!
I have only fired this rifle when there is a magazine in the well. I have not attempted to dismantle the trigger assembly. I have only fired the weapon under ideal conditions, so there is no foreign matter which could be contributing to the situation. Help!

Thanks in advance.

Keith
Keith E. Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 20:53:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.122)

Keith, Re-Slamfires
Keith, check the easy stuff first. Headspace is easy to check. Firing pin protrusion is also easy to check. After that, take a bunch of your suspect ammo and pull the powder out of each case and reseat the bullet in each case. Stuff a bunch of these DUD rounds in your magazine and cycle them thru your action. Check to see if the hammer falls ever, before cycling another round. If the hammer ever drops without pulling the trigger, then you have isolated the problem. Please point the rifle in a safe direction when you do this. If you get a primer to go off and the hammer did not fall, then it is a firing pin problem or an ammo problem. There is a bridge under the receiver which is supossed to retard the forward inertia of the firing pin when the bolt slams home. This needs to be checked by a good M14 gunsmith for correct timing. Do not fire any more live rounds until the thing is fixed.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 21:43:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.148.92)

1st: trigger-locks:
If your firearms aren't stored in a safe, or secured in some other fashion, a trigger-lock MAY be a good idea for you, depending on YOUR personal situation, environment, etc... be safe, be sensible, but it should be YOUR decision, not the government's.

2nd: God & morality:
Based on Roster replies and email, I've pissed in some people's Cheerios. I was not discussing God, nor intend to do so here. It matters not whether someone's Christian (Catholic or Protestant), Jewish, Islamic, Hindi(sp?), Wiccan, agnositic, atheist, or whatever, I don't care: I'm NOT going to think more or less of ANYONE because of their religion just becaue I'm a Christian. If you want to talk about THAT, contact me OFF the Roster.
My point was that the founding fathers were built upon morality that was comparable to the morality values that are SUPPOSED to be in Christianity (not to confuse a real believer with the "establishment religion")(yes, 'Lito, I have read 'em, thought about 'em, argued over 'em...). With that said, look at the lesson learned with prohibition: you can't legislate morality. To do so imposes upon FREEDOM, which is exactly what the government is supposed to protect, not infringe upon.
W/ that said, I'll behave now ('til it gets brought up months down the road! ;-)
====================================================

Actual sniping-related question!

The local camera shop has a pair of Steiner 8x30 binoculars on sale for $199, but I can't put my finger on the flyer now. I "think" they were called Safaris... they weren't the military Steiners I'm used to, but they didn't look bad, either. Were dark gray, coated lenses....

Does anyone have any info regarding any Steiners along these lines?

I've been needing a pair of binos, and while I'm fond of Steiners, I would rather get the most glass for the least money (I WON'T be spending more than $200 for 'em, well, for now anyway).

Anyone know of better binoculars for less money?

Thanks, guys....

-L

Leslie <lnbright@juno.com>
VA-TN, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 21:47:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.98.93.21)

Where am I? Can't be SNIPER COUNTRY because we talk SHOOTING in SNIPER COUNTRY! WTF, Goochtradomus?

Seriously though, everyone is trying to make sense out of the Clintonistic mentality that has pervaded the country. WHY? It makes no sense! Raise your kids right, take them to church, show them that guns are to be used, but respected, and love them. See? A simple recipe for a new generation of US...

Now, everybody go get a favorite rig and a couple of boxes of your favorite. Now go to the range and come up with some problems, or some bragging groups, or just go burn some powder!!! Then come home, clean that toy however YOU want to, then get back on here and tell us about it.

Hit'em hard, long and repeatedly,

John R.
John R. <jrr051468@aol.com>
MS, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 22:14:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.69)

As a young boy growing up in California, waiting for a brick of .22
rf to go on sale,so you could strap your gun on the bicycle, ride out to the canyons . The Ride took an hour and a half, passing the boarder patrol and police cars , that all waved Hi , remembering their day plinking in the canyons . I would set up cans or find an old car , looking for a good hill side or back stop , just as dad had showed me as a small boy. WE NEVER HAD TRIGGER LOCKS///////.
He trusted me after his tutelage , With a final line that was
something like, ( If you ever shoot anything, or anybody , for no
good reason , you better hope the police get you first, because I will beat you till your mother cant recognize you, do we understand each other) Nodding to this , the deal had been made , This left a lasting impression .
Today you if told a boy that , he would look you in the eye ,with a reply of , you do that, I will have your gun toten Ass thrown in jail ,if you ever so much as look a me sideways .
I think there in lies the problem, also personal responsibility , drunks who say they have been “ OVER SERVED”, the car, plane,
boat,train accidents, they blame the manufacture of the vehicle.
I would love to see someone just say I screwed up ,its my fault.
I have done it,its my fault,a lawyer told me to lie,
like motherlessbastard that he was!!
With big money on the line, most just knuckle under to the lawyers.

P.S. I bought 1K A-MAX 168s blemished bullets
$ 120 less than 5% look bad or are damaged.
everything shoots under 1 MOA , still working
on a good load , two hundred fired so far.
It appears seated in the throat to 10 thou. back
seems to works , way back to 40 gr. Varget and
work up . E-mail if you (been there done that)
Hans W. Kuwert <akuwert123@Hotmail.com>
77deg clear, California, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 22:46:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 130.191.26.94)

Keith,
I've never seen a titanium firing pin for an M1-A, but that doesn't mean you can't have one made without going in debt. If you can find a tool and die shop in your area, they can map out your firing pin and make one out of anything you want in no time. It will cost a little more since they will only be making one but not too outrageous since the machining time wouldn't be all that long. If you do want one and can't find a shop, get me a print of the firing pin with the tolerances you want and I'll make it. Don't know what the turn around time would be since I'm already working 12-14 hrs a day. BTW, I'm a journeyman tool and die maker.

Eric
Eric R. <Roody5150@aol.com>
Cabot, Pa, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 23:03:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.57)

Pablito,
You are SICK!!!!!
What a cruel thing to do to fellow Rosterfarians!
Now I have that stupid tune running in my head and I cant get rid of it!
Guy's. DO NOT go to the hampster site. It may me hazardous to you sanity.

On topic quote with Regards to God and Founding fathers.

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy"
--Benjamin Franklin

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Saturday, March 11, 2000 at 23:08:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.148.92)

Just checked out the hamster dance. OKKK.
Actually was wondering about a scope that I was researching quite some time ago. Actually in 1991. It was manufactured by Phrobis International, Ltd. and was the MKII model. Still have the brochure. It had a mildot reticle and a an internal level system. Was priced at $900 at that time. Came in 10x,16x or 20x. Any of you guys (a figure of speech) know anything about this item? I was a little reluctant to fork out those bucks at that time and I've never seen the thing since.
One of the local "think globally, act locally" persons where I live (a small town) sent a letter to the editor of the weekly newspaper this past Wed. and the subject was trigger locks.It will be interesting if my response gets published. She must have received her marching orders. Anyway she is trying to organize people to attend the "Million Mom March" in DC on Mother's Day. Some timing.
You know, I'd like to see a section on this web site where there would be a profile for people who participate. As I'm just a fairly recent lurker who takes but does not give (info)and non military or law enforcement, I don't feel I carry too much weight to offer opinions. Maybe .01 dollars worth.
Well I was a member of the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club during the mid 60's so I guess there is a distant link.
And Steve, you're correct about beer. (actually BF) I've had, just a few, so I hope this posting is legible.
John

John <jhugdahl@pressenter.com>
USA - Sunday, March 12, 2000 at 01:06:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.100.170.82)

I'm getting nice results from 168gr A-MAX under 43.5 gr Varget seated to 2.885 OAL (.025 off lands) in my 700P DM. Group sizes are .5 - .6 if I do my part.
breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Sunday, March 12, 2000 at 04:32:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.60.57.29)

Well, my computer must love me.... it censors things that I shouldn't do. I tried to go to the hamsterdance page, and the plug-in locked up Netscape. But if it is the same hamsterdance page that you see on the ad on TV, then I know the song already... it's from Disney's cartoon version of Robin Hood.... sheesh, the things that you learn from being a daddy....

====================================================

Re: the Steiners I asked about earlier....

You can see which ones I was asking about at http://www.aaacamera.com/steiner_8x30_safari.html, for less money!!

Anyone used these particular ones before? Are they worth anything? Are there better binos for the same cash out there?

====================================================

St Patricks Day is coming, I need to stock up on Killian's... anyone else gonna wear a Chewbacca suit so they don't get pinched? ;-) (Sorry, I must be in a mood today....)

-L

Leslie <lnbright@juno.com>
VA-TN, USA - Sunday, March 12, 2000 at 05:08:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.98.92.254)

I've visited this website afew times and have found it to be quite interesting. Spurred me to purchase a new toy (Rem 700 PSS 308).

In regard to trigger locks - they are really worthless in my opinion.
If you have young children and want to lock up a handgun a small lock box would be the way to go. Fumbling with a triggerlock while a burgler is coming in the window makes little sense. It definetly isn't the govt's business how I store my firearms. Alexandria VA's anti-gun Sheriff Dunning has told me that he blames gunowners for gun crimes because burglers steal legal guns and use them to commit crimes.

Folks in Virginia who want to stand up for gunrights should join VCDL,
Virginia's Citizens Defense League. Inc. We started the group in 1994 with 30 activists and are now up to over 400. See www.vcdl.org for more info.

Paul Moog <nvcdl@erols.com>
Alexandria, VA, USA - Sunday, March 12, 2000 at 05:08:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.172.7.100)

I have a Winchester Model 70 Stealth in .308 of course, and I was wondering if anyone out there has any experience with this rifle. It is marketed as a long range varmiter, and the pictures make it apear to have a McMillan "Winchester marksman" stock on it. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I am planning to mount a Tasco ss10x42m on it, does anyone love these or hate these scopes? And finally, what is the simplest way to break in a new gun? I read the hot tips and cold shots section, but found it tough to filter through it all. Thanks gentlemen and ladies
Semper Fi
Mike Miller <mmbackpacker@aol.com>
Boise, Id, USA - Sunday, March 12, 2000 at 06:25:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.23)

I'll tell ya, I had a GREAT time at the Mudville match last weekend. Found out to never shoot in the wind and rain with a poncho, HA!
My M1A shot flawlessly (but I sure as hell didn't, something about a loose nut that holds the weapon). Hell, after the the first stage my rifle was covered with gravel and mud, thanks to the damned poncho. It even plopped over into the mud a coupla times (poncho again).
It was great to meet some of the roster guys and visit with them. Thanks Mike (the undude) for the advice.
I have been showing off the t-shirt,too. I should be back in a coupla months.

I started my 10 day wait (Kalisocialistfornia, ya know) on a synthetic stock Rem 700 in '06 today. Someday it'll be a Jerry Rice shooter. $412 and change. Cheaper than an action alone from Brownell's. And I can shoot it for awhile,too!!

Speaking of Brownell's, has anyone tried the Nightforce tapered scope blocks that they sell? Would appreciate some input.

Thanks again to all the guys that run the Mudville Match. Gentlemen all!
Spud,
Out
Dennis <usmcspud@aol.com>
Merced, Kalifornicateya, USA - Sunday, March 12, 2000 at 07:37:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.71)

Another Mike Miller? Uh oh........:)
Paul M. <prmayne@ala.net>
USA - Sunday, March 12, 2000 at 07:39:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.2.25.180)

"Speaking of Brownell's, has anyone tried the Nightforce tapered scope blocks that they sell? Would appreciate
some input."

I bought a set from Nightforce (Lightforce?) and love them. They look like Leupold MK 4's, but have a taper. Good machine work, works well.
Mike
mike s <mws@ecom.net>
USA - Sunday, March 12, 2000 at 07:58:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.138.195.197)

Hello,
I am currently in the market for a left-handed .308 Remington 700. I am new to this, and so far have heard that all the Remington 700 recievers are the same? What rifle should I buy? There is the detachable magazine model, or blind magazine, and should I get the Remington PSS, P, or Police model? Or should I get a stripped reciever (if available) to have a gun built up? I would like to get a complete rifle, and want to keep it low cost for now, but with the possibility of upgrading it in the future. I was planning on getting a Police model, or PSS with a blind internal magazine. Please Help!!!

R4 fan
r4fan@msn.com
R4 fan <r4fan@msn.com>
USA - Sunday, March 12, 2000 at 19:20:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.10.3.31)

(The NEW) Mike Miller...
Welcome. A lot of guys on this site have the Winchester Heavy Barreled Varminters... used to be callrd the M70/HBV, now it is called "The Stealth". I have two in .308, and one in .223, and they are excellent, though you'll get some razzing on this site from the Rem guys.
The stock is an EXACT copy of the Marksman that Winchester has used since the M70 HBM's were knocking enemies out of palm trees in the South Pacific, and it's one of the best target stocks around (in my humble opinion!) Us Winchester guys don't get no respect (and probably don't deserve it).

On the Brownell's bases... the Brownell's/Nightforce bases are the ones that are made by Bruce Baer... and they have been talked about on this site about eleventy-three times... go back through the archives for comments.
They have 25 moa of forward taper, and are better mand than the MK4's, at about half the price. Bruce Baer will make custom bases with upwards of 70-80 moa of forward taper, for those that really want to "Reach out and ...."

And... yup! Same Hampsters "As seen on TV!"

Pablito.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
In Hampster City, USA - Sunday, March 12, 2000 at 19:44:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.129)

Love them hamsters!

For you folks that have a printer, these little critters make great 50 yard 22 targets. Print out a page of them for some real cheap fun.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, March 12, 2000 at 19:58:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.59.54)

Jeff; So your dad missed you...well I find it a little hard to think about an adult who never considered a gun he just picked up might be loaded but ner the less. JUst a little Redneck humor there. Lemme tell you why we don't like the lock with a metaphor of sorts.
" Yes, your honor, I am suing this man in civil court for 3 million dollars because if he had his lock on his gun as the law provides, I would have been able to cut his throat with my knife while I was burgularizing his home! Instead of him holding me for the police! Further, I am suing for the money I would have made in my burgular business while I was in prison for the 3 weeks they gave me for killing his mother-in-law." You see Jeff there are other problems down here in this country. We best not be unarmed and above all not held to stupid laws that don't protect anyone but criminals. Tell me it will not happen in a country where burgulars fell through a sky light and sued and obtained disability settlements from a person's insurance company.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Sunday, March 12, 2000 at 21:11:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

Bill: We take things like "assuming a gun is always loaded" because we all here are familiar with firearms and (hopefully) treat safety as our nuber one priority. Other non-shooters are potentially ignorant of the things we consider second nature, as shooters. That's how those types of incidents happen. Plain and simple.

I've heard about the insane civil suits that you make reference to. Judges here in Canada are swift to throw these types of cases out of court unless you have somethings like boobytraps inside your home or business.

Just a few short years ago in my home town, a young 14 yrs. old punk stole a guys car from his yard for a joy ride with his friend. The police caught up with the stolen car and gave up persuit when the youth's driving became extremely eratic and dangerous. The cops knew who the youth was so it wasn't like they had to pull the car over. Anyway, a crash happend a short time later and killed the 14 yrs. old boy.

The boy's father attempted to sue the car's owner claiming that the car's brakes were faulty and caused the accident which his son was involved in. The judge threw the civil case out so fast that the court room seats didn't have time enough to get warm during the procedings.

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Sunday, March 12, 2000 at 22:49:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.89.63)

About Slamfires:

Be sure you are holding your M1A firmly. One common cause is that the rebound from the recoil trips the trigger again. If the trigger is held to the back with a good grip, it doesn't happen.

Does the gun double when someone else is shooting it? Try it and see. From the frequency, it sounds like you, not the gun.

On trigger locks:

I think

(BRAIN CENSOR IN EFFECT. ABORT, RETRY, OR FAIL?)

Anyway, thats my opinion. YMMV. Opinions are like a$$holes - everyone has one, and its imolite to wave them in everybody else's face.

Karl
Karl <dahm0030@tc.umn.edu>
Damn Cold, Mn, USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 00:30:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.84.148.151)

I am getting ready to break in a barrel on my new Robar .50. Robar recommends the standard procedure, i.e. clean with shooter choice or Sweets after every round for the first 10 rounds, etc. My question is should I use moly coated bullets for this procedure? I'm guessing not. In fact, from what I've read here, I may never shoot a moly bullet through this gun. Btw, Robar recommends that I should never use an abrasive ( I'm sure they mean JB paste or something similar). I will ask Robar about moly bullets for break-in but I would welcome any comments or suggestions here.
Gary Gelson <ggfoto@micron.net>
USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 00:58:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.206.40.191)

Jeff; Exactly, we have to be careful what we enact down here. We have 20000 gun laws already. They only enforce them when they need to influence witness to testify or some other legal manuever. Or put the heat to someone for political or other reasons. Makes for a cloudy justice atmosphere. IF only one could trust it to be prudent in enactment we could have things like requiring stored guns to be locked. Unfortunately that's the trouble with laws in General; they can be bent and perverted and that's why fewer is almost always better. Down here we have a knee jerk law for every tragedy that happens. It sucks my friends. There is an element in power in the USA that would demonize the NRA and every gun owner to the point they can be eliminated and laws are the most frequent tool to accomplish that.
It would be a far greater coup for our leadership to imprison the NRA leadership than the Drug Cartell in my opinion. If only kids with guns were the issue here!
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 01:12:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

For those of you who did not catch it last time. On the History Channel tonight, they are showing "Suicide Missions-Sniper". This starts at 9:00 pm Central Standard Time. They are also showing it again at 2:00 am Central Standard Time.

CR <stoddard@poncacity.net>
PC, Oklahoma, USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 02:22:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.76.244.234)

Greetings all,

Can anyone give me the name of a retailer who is willing and able to export a H-S Precision stock to New Zealand?

The one I need is the PST59 model for the Rem 700 short action (The same one reviewed in this site in December last year).
I have decided it will be perfect for my 10 inch barreled, suppressed .300 Whisper.

(There are no restrictions on the ownership or use of suppressors in NZ as long as you have a current firearms licence.)

The rifle shoots great as is with a well chopped up Ram-Line stock but this was always only going to be 'till I found something better.

So, if anyone can point me in the right direction, or just wants to discuss suppressed tactical/hunting rifles please let me know.

Sniff

Sniff <akh805@actrix.gen.nz>
auckland, new zealand - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 03:58:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 203.96.16.21)

I went to a gun show recently and was surprised by the lack of new Remington 700 and Winchester 70 rifles(specifically the Rem PSS). These were once common at gun shows/retail establishments. A friend started to check on the availibility of said rifles (we work at a gun shop)and we couldn't find any. Whats going on? Does anyone know anything about this, or is this "scarcity" in my mind.
Semper Fi!
Tim
Tim deKryger <leatherneck56@hotmail.com>
Albuquerque, NM, USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 05:00:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.195.193)

I have a Browning .300 Win.Mag. A bolt II,SS, Composite
Stalker,26"barrel with the BOSS.
Scope= Bausch & Lomb Elite 4200 6x24

I have been a .30-06 shooter for over 25yrs.
This is the "Sweetest" shooting ,lightest recoil ,Mag. rifle I have ever
shot.
I would request specific loading data for (1) one load for optimum
accuracy
and impact out to at least 600m.
SLS
SLS <chang58@flash.net>
Ben Franklin, TEXAS, USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 05:03:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.30.184.43)

Can anyone help me locate a FBI type data book for recording range information, shots fired etc.. I am an ex-police officer who went through an FBI taught sniper school in the mid 80's. They gave us a FBI data book in that school that I have used since with my .308. I just ordered a CLE "Space gun" and want a data book for this gun. Thanks for any help...DaleH
Dale Hendrickson <dwhs2s@msn.com>
USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 05:09:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.27.85.210)

Well.....
I gotta chime in on this trigger lock thing again. I don't own any! I rely on the safes to do keep them secure. I plan to raise my children the way I was, with a health respect for authority, firearms, their elders, and everythiing else that is missing from todays society! What childhood experiences did I have? My dad was a police officer, and I was about 3 or 4, curiously nosing around in a dresser drawer. I happened to find a .32 that he used as a backup (it was unloaded) & I racked the slide and it locked open. I almost shit myself because I knew I'd be busted when I couldn't get it to close. It turned out to be a moot point, I was caught with the "evidence in my possesion". Mom beat my ass as I got a "firearms safety lecture" from dad. He was too pissed at me and himself to administer the punishment. I NEVER TOUCHED ANY OF HIS GUNS AGAIN WITHOUT PERMISSION. After that, he always took me along when he and my brother went to "sight in" before deer season, or cleaned the guns after. Probably the thing that got my attention the most was the "pumpkin demonstration": I was 10 and he was starting to prepare me to go hunting in a couple years. I went along on the first day of small game to an uncle's farm. He put a pumpkin on a fence post and "showed me" what a shotgun could do to someones head if I was not careful. Later a rabit "splattered" after being hit at close range. After that day, I had a very healthy respect for the damage that could be done.
I will be watching my children alot closer than my parents did because of "the differences in society over the past 34 years". I have read the constitution, I actually have a copy of it sitting two feet away right now. I have read the Feaderaist papers once (a borrowed copy, still looking to get my own).

I agree with 'lito about this shit not being mandatory. It is the individuals responsibility, not the Government. This country came about because of intrusive and opressive governments. We are repeating many of the mistakes made near the end of the Roman Empire (which we are strikingly similar to). He who fails to learn from the mistakes made throughout history is doomed to repeat them!

WHEW!! this shit really stirs me up... COMMON SENSE....YES!!!
GOVERNMENT MANDATE....F**K NO!
Steve U. <hockyref@bellatlantic.net>
south west, Pennsylvania, USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 06:14:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 151.201.122.42)

Gees, never thought I'd go this far. But here goes anyway.
If you think the "Hampsterdance" was...how should I put this...different try these - I followed them from the original site -
http://www.fishydance.com
cowdance.com - even funnier than the hampsters
boogieblocks.com
pikachudance.com -this one is great for you pokeman haters!
stickman.com

Still don't believe I'm sending this!!
Tired,sleepy,phuttttttt....brain fart

I'm outta here!!

Sarge

Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 06:21:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.245.243.88)

.300 Win Mag vs .338 Lapua

for police use on an airport

any qual. input ? please e mail me.

t
torsten <7.62@lasercon.de>
germany - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 07:19:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.159.89.205)

Sniff,

I'm a fellow Kiwi,you should be able too order HS-stock's straight from HS,do you have a .300 whisper or do you intend to have one made up.And who make's your suppressor's?
I have a Win70 in .308 with a Mark Percy can on it,it's quite good,also run a Sako TRG-21 in .308 with a Sako Factory can.

Chris
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
New Zealand - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 08:36:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 203.97.45.214)

Sarge: Are you honestly comparing the USA to the Roman Empire? That's a little concieted and thnocentric, don't you think? Your country isn't even 300 yrs. old yet.

Ooops! My mistake! You're absolutely correct. As long as you have a Caligula wannabee running your Oral Office, you have every right to make that comparison. Once again, my most humble appologies.

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 10:51:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.89.92)

Hey Pablito

Someone has to dig up ,that thread ending at FEB. 17 2000 20.20.45
ZULU , where a Robert K. writes "a real sniper cant learn anything on
this sight " , He gets a bit of a ball busting from you. you know the
one.

Has anyone had luck with neck turning brass, its more a benchrest
thing ,I have done it on .223 & .308 ,seems like a big waste of
time. I have better luck with case annealing "if done right".
E-mail if you have had better,luck.

P.S. How many mils tall is a Hamster at 500 meters, sitting or standing, Haaaaaa
Hans K. <akuwert123@hotmail.com>
CA., USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 13:48:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 130.191.26.94)

Trigger locks: Usefull, but not foolrpoof and NEVER 100% safe for anyone.

Children and guns: Guns must be locked out of the reach of smaal children and especially their friends. You do not need any trigger locks for that, as trigger locks do not prevent theft or "loans". What you need is a locked closet or gunsafe. This way burglars can not transport your propert that easily away.

Still it should be clear for any gunowner that these tools should be locked up when the owner is not around. I do not think we need laws for each and every thing, "Just in case so that also the morons know what they should and should not do." The problem with "preventing laws" is that the morons do not know about them anyways, no matter what the law says.

I think that parents have a broader responsibility to look after their kids and their safety and no simple trigger lock law can be enough. If the kids hurt themselves or somebody else and it can be shown that irresponsible parents are to blame, then punish them. You can do this and you do not have to force "moron proof" laws to everybody "just in case".

Gunsafety: No one, not even grownups should touch guns they are not familiar with. Jeff, I am happy that you are alive and that nobody got hurt when your father had an AD. Still he should have known better. As should you uncle too.

The only fool proof way to prevent gun accidents is to teach every child and grown up that they should not play with any guns. If this is not properly understood, then every and all gun laws are for nought with regard to gun accidents.

Enough of this babble. You can not cure stupid and irresponsible people with any law and it is foolhardy to believe that we need new laws every time an idiot or criminal does something that no sane person would ever do. You can not cure idiots by laws. You can teach people gun safety, but usually that is not very much liked by the lawmakers. Maybe they do not want people to able to use guns properly :-)

Heikki
Heikki Juhola <juhola@luukku.com>
Helsinki, Finland - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 13:56:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 212.16.98.41)

Awhile back i saw that someone had found the same scope as the tasco ss10x42m's for sale in Australia. I can't figure out where I saw this, can anyone help me? Thanks brothers, semper Fi

Mike Miller <mmbackpacker@aol.com>
Boise, ID, USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 14:00:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.195.176)

Hey Guy's,

Anyone out there have any "IN'S" at Dell computers?
I bought a brand new $2300 system from them. Received it the first week in Feburary and am having modem problems. After numerous phone calls to Dell's Tech line, installing new drivers etc etc,they agreed to replace the modem but get this: Only with the same modem I and many others are having problems with. I even offered to pay the difference for a modem upgrade, but they said no only after they went thru the same crap with another modem just to see if they could get it to work. I called customer service, they agreed to give me what I wanted and said they would call me the next day to let me know when to expect a service call. Well I'm still waiting for that call, I've phoned and left messages, and sent e-mails, so I'm now at a loss as to what to do. As for the advertised next day service call well thats only after THEY decide that they have exhausted all other options. I have now made over twenty calls to Dell and I still can't get a modem for a system that I,ve only had for 35 days.
My advice to anyone contemplating a computer purchase......don't buy Dell.
Danny Reever <dreever@supernet.com>
Arendtsville, Pa, USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 14:12:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 165.83.118.152)

I have gone through almost everything on this site...wooh!! OVERLOAD But I am still having a hard time trying to figure out what the best factory ammo would be for a Savage 110FP 7mm mag. Moly? or NOT! Add the Choate stock, or not? Add a muzzle break, or not? And if so what kind? It seems like as soon as I get the answer I am looking for in the archives, I will find 10 things against it. Can someone that owns the 110FP and is dedicated to it for various reasons please help me? I like shooting ground hogs at 300+ and deer from a stand in a 200 acre flat field! HELP!!!
Joe <roadrunner@jvlnet.com>
USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 14:51:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.145.182.27)

I know this has nothing to do with Religion or trigger locks but....Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.(HA) I have been doing some long range shooting for the last couple of weeks ringing out the 260STR (Short Tactical Rifle) comparing it to my 26" 308. I have been shooting from 300 to 700 yards nearly every afternoon. I shoot at either a 4" or a 6" circle depending on the range I will be shooting at. I start off by doping the wind and range then dialing it in and shooting a 3 shot group with each rifle. I have found the 260 to be more consistant on hits from 400 yards on out if I have any wind over 5mph. If I misjudge the wind at all I will get a miss with the 308 but will usually get one or two hits with the 260. Since I have been shooting the 6.5s for the last year or so I like to kid about how much better I have got at calling the wind. In all seriousness though, this may be something for a lot of you guys to consider when thinking about picking a certain caliber for a long range rifle. The BCs are .470 on a 308 and .560 on a 6.5 this really comes into play the further out we go. If you are a hand loader I would suggest you take a good look at the 6.5s you won't be sorry!!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 14:56:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)

Remington triggers:

Got on a range today with the "700PSS from Hell (tm)". I had several 5-round groups that were somewhere around .6 MOA, Varget behind 175 MKs and 165 Nosler Ballistic Tips. The steel in this barrel is *good*, as it exibits no tendancy to string or do other funky things when run hot. In fact, its pretty much heat proof. Once again, no POI shift from week to week.

But, all is not well, still. The trigger on this gun is now giving radicaly different pull weights from shot to shot, which leads me to toss the odd flyer several full MOA out to the right, Most uncool. Anybody have any corrective measures to recomend, aside from dropping $150 worth of Jewell in it? I aint got the cash to drop just now. I recently lubed it with a bit of Rem-Oil, if you think this is an issue.

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 15:26:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

Jeff B, We finally agree on something. Put trigger locks on weapons left out of a safe with kids in the house! I walk in from work and put my weapon straight into the safe. I have seen too many kids and stupid adults kill or hurt someone from not handling a weapon correctly. Now before I was married I allowed myself easier access to a loaded weapon but the world is full of trade offs. I am not willing to trade my kids safety for a few seconds faster response. Jeff dont take offense just kidding with you.

Mike MIller 2, crap my mom is scared to death to think two of us exist.

Sarge, glad to see you are still alive. You still coming to New Mexico/Jarrttes in June, with the Doctor?

Windrunner 50, OK Dean I saw one this weekend. I talked with the owner and he said you are getting one. Lucky Dog! Looked and felt like the ticket. Plus they use a KxP bbl(Great Stuff). I counted my pennies but I am way short!

IOR sent me a new scope. 2.5x10x42mm with a 30mm tube. Mildot type reticle, German Optics with 1/2moa adjustments. Very cool and great clearity.

Undude/MIKE MILLER 1 LOL
MikeMiller <Tactica@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 15:42:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.203)

Hans K...

Ju got it all wrong Mano... I wasn't busting Robert K's stones...
I was just commenting how overwhelmed I was to be in the presence of someone of his "Omnipotent stature"...
... and I just mentioned lightly that he might benefit from some grammar lessons so when he wrote his biography, or the "thank you letter" to the President for his four Congressional Medals of Honor... he wouldn't sound like a third grade drop-out!

"Has anyone had luck with neck turning brass, its more a benchrest
thing ,I have done it on .223 & .308 ,seems like a big waste of
time. I have better luck with case annealing "if done right".
E-mail if you have had better, luck."

... I'll make it quick. There is an ascending stairway of steps to take for getting the "one hole group"...
(the first being... shoot one shot :) One shot, one kill!

Neck turning is one of the last ones to take... you need a gun that is shooting under about .3" or so to make it worth while... and that ain't yo' typical sniper M24/PSS type rig... also, it's a big pain in the ass. I just finished outside neck turning 1100 cases for a 6mm BR... and it sucks BIG TIME!!!

"P.S. How many mils tall is a Hamster at 500 meters, sitting or standing, Haaaaaa"

Well... it's tough to see a Hamster at 500 meters... 'specially in the grass. But if it's standing on the head of a member of P.E.T.A. of average height, who's at a demonstration at the beginning of hunting season...
... it'll be about 4 mils... and remember to hold for the wind :))

"Original Steve"...
I have that music running around my head… my son loves that site… so I sympathize... but think of the up side... you won't be distracted by the other shooters at the next match.

Jeff...
Yes I do have a 7 yo son at home (who loves "Hamsterdance"), and I keep my 80 or so guns in two safe's, except the house guns... which he can't get to.

You seem to think that Laws save lives... but they don't.
We have other serious problems in the country.

I'm old enough to remember things before all this crap... you could buy a .357 mag through the mail... I knew many teenage kids that had full access to firearms (even in the big cities)... and there were no school shootings. As much as the media loves these tragedies, there have been more children killed by faulty airbags, than by guns in schools... but I fail to hear the outcry of "Ban the bag... do it for the kids".

My other objection to these laws, is they are often used to get an "entry" to a law that people would find objectionable.
For example... many years ago, our caring leaders wanted a law to keep track of our cash... and wanted a list of those who used cash.
Congress found that objectionable... so they passed a law to keep track of only those that took out, or deposited over $10,000, saying it was only the drug dealers they wanted... later, with out fanfare (or any notice in the papers) the limit was lowered to $3000... not a lot of money if you go to big gun shows, or run a small business, like a diner, and now the Government gets 90,000,000 reports of our transactions each year, and the drugs still flow.
So down South, we don't trust our Government... and it's not just about second amendment stuff... we're loosing it all.

Pablito.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 15:46:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.17)

Final comment from me regarding trigger locks. I've never once said they should be put into your American laws. What I did say was that I have no opinion on if they should be or not because I am not American. Far be it from me, a foreigner, to tell you people how to govern yourselves. You just won't hear that type of thing from me.

I believe trigger locks are a viable alternative form for those not fortunate enough to afford a safe. Chose whatever method you can best afford to make your guns safe.

Laws can't possibly protect people if they either aren't followed or enforced by law enforcement. It doesn't matter if were talking about guns, traffic laws, or building codes, or anything else for that matter.

What's all this about hamsters? Did I miss something here?

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 16:48:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.97.67)

Guys, come on.
Everyone has an opinion about everything and it is right for him or her, but not everyone. Lets chill on the locks and religion and get back to shooting. Yes they are important and I do appreciate the short, quick updates, but I think this is not the place for long drawn out discussions on the subject.
Now after I said that I will ask for your opinion on the following subjects

I am shooting the Federal Match 175 out of a 26" barrel and want to make some silhouette targets. How thick does the steel have to be to not deform due to the impact? Are there any really cheap targets that would be better to buy, rather then make my own?

How can I increase the visual trace of the impact?

Should the target hang below the bar, or should it be counterweighted to sit above the bar it pivots on?

By the way, I have a pair of old Sears 10x binoculars that work well for me and I was wondering if you can put a mil dot scale in them?

Thanks in advance.

Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
San Jo ouch, gotsunburnrealbadonmybaldassheadifornia, USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 17:18:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.247.149.130)

I forgot one thing.
I have a tasco ss10x42 with the army mil dot system.
How thick is the line that the mil dots are on? .5? 1.0?
Im talking about the smaller one, not the thick ones on the outside.
Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
san jo, damnimstupidifornia, USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 19:06:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.247.149.130)

Tom...

"The trigger on this gun is now giving radicaly different pull weights from shot to shot..."

I just finished rebuilding a M700 trigger for one of the guys on this site, that had the very same problem...
He took it to a 'smith or two, but they couldn't do anything with it.
It's a bitch to rebuild one (he owes me 47 Prairie Dogs, two Cheeseburgers, and a date with the local "Daisy Duke" waitress at the coffee shop).

It will probably be easier to get a Jewel... they are very good.
I'll be posting an article here, on a total overhaul-rebuilding the M700 trigger in a few weeks (if I can ever get the new computer to run the damn scanner)... but the Jewel is a good way to go.

Pablito.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
In Hampster Country..., USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 21:01:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.44)

nice sight
Fred B Short <shortf@up.net>
iron moutain, MI, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 01:05:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.16.251.89)

I would like to know if anyone has "Knowledge" of any of the scopes made by AMT? Like the ATN Professional series Lit Reticle scopes. I have been gathering information about these scopes for use as a dual purpose spotting/extreme low light rifle scope. I have found out so far that they acquired the plant/staff that does the work for Zeiss, in 1995, and is located in the Ukraine.

Anyone have anything else that they can add? Please email me with any thought on the subject.
Joe Dawson <roadrunner@jvlnet.com>
The Great, White North!, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 01:17:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.145.182.59)

In regard to my recent post commenting on my computer problems I wish to apologise to those who e-mailed me commenting "on my lack of respect for the rules as laid out by Sniper Country". To all those who sent me suggestions Thank you. My being new here is not an excuse, but it all I can put forth in my defense.
Once again I apologise.

Danny
Danny Reever <dreever@supernet.com>
Arendtsville , Pa, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 01:50:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.157.108.237)

Looking for some feed-back on the advantages of replacing the standard Rem M700 extractors with the Sako type. My partner's tactical rifle included this conversion and we have had problems. On 2 occasions we've had the extractor remain lodged in the chamber, gripping the case. The first was due to a blown primer due to some loose primer pockets in a batch of Federal GM brass. The second, we tried each others ammo (in case one were to run out), due to a minimally sized case (went in tight). In all fairness, his rifle (a fine piece of work)does have a tight chamber, and I do need to size my cases another .001 to .002's. But in my experience, I've chambered my share of tight cases and have never had the stock Rem. extractor fail. I just can't see having to re-assemble an extractor during a course of fire, with the clock running. I've examined how the Sako extractor is cut into the bolt and there's not much holding it in. Does not appear to be a "strong" replacement. Any like experiences out there?
dan <danr@acnet.net>
Deep South, Texas, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 03:08:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 170.76.33.67)

I want to learn everything posible about sniping. My main career goal is to become a sniper for the U.S. military. Please send me all the information you can.
Nick Burleson <N_extacy69@hotmail.com>
Hammondsport, NY, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 03:19:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.186.62.142)

Hi,
Who makes best custom M1A NM? I have an M1A loaded series that I want to have re-barreled. Any advice would be appreciated.
breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 04:00:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.60.57.31)

Myself and some other has beens are heading to Ft. Lewis for a service rifle shoot Apr 27-30. From the 30 page booklet I've recieved M1's,M14's,M16's are allowed and for Canadians (like me) the C7A1 (w/ ELCAN). I have a M4A1 - can I shoot it at the match? or do I have to get a 'normal' issue piece (or reasonable handdrawn faximile thereof)

Greatly Appreciated
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 04:15:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.137.159)

Torsten,
did you get my mail about the 338 Lapua Mag? was having server problems,didn't know if it went through.
outta here
AIRBORNE!!!
by the way,where are you at in Germany?will be stopping there on the way to Norway around 10 Apr.
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 04:18:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.219)

¤¤¤¤ Does anyone have any tips on making GHILLIE SUITS? ¤¤¤¤
---Thank you for your help.
___________________
_________________
_________________
Matt <MATTE0295@aol.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 04:45:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.199.173)

Breakpont and his M1-A:

There are any number of competant gas gun builders out there( and more than a few f'ing morons that calim to be same). One place that always seems to do nice work that you can cruise to on the web is:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/

Clint McKee and Co. are top-knotch folks, the work is of excellent quality and the prices fair.

-Tom

Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 04:47:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

Anybody know what happened to that guy that was going to make a Rem700 out of titanium?

TR <BOLTGUNZRUL@aol.com>
Portland, OR, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 05:41:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.176)

Idea,

We (some friends and I) are planning a infiltration course set up for snpier creeps. What the twist is: There will be five to ten guys looking for two sniper teams. The "searchers" will have paintball guns and so will the snipers. Simply put we are trying to see what works in a creep and what doesn't. Nothing too complex, just having fun. A tall bow stand will be set up for an O.P. then rovers searching the area, about 200 acre square area in the mountains. This is to test the "G" suits and the noise, movement discipline. I'll let you know how it turns out. If my "G" suit turns different colors I'll let you know why.
There will be a critique after each evolution. The evolutions will be timed. No idea how long yet though. The goal is to gain skill and knowledge then apply what we've learned. Hopefully we will get better at detection and evasion at the same time. This may result in some interesting episodes.

The gong (steel plates)

I used to shoot at a steel plate that was 1/2" thick and 18" in diameter. The thing is it has to be at least 400yds out to keep it from turning into a thick screen door. It was attatched to a 3/4" steel pipe frame/stand that really made a nice sound when smacked by a bullet at 600-700m.

.300 Win Mag question.

I'm about to start on developing loads for my .300 Win Mag heavy barreled rifle. Any suggestions? I have a problem with run out. Some nice load info would be of great help too.

Semper Fidelis!

Bravo Kilo out.
Bad Karma <jwhiteII56@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 07:07:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.77.71.194)

Dan,

Why go to all that bother,if you want something better than the Rem extractor,install any extractor except a Rem type.
Better to sell your 700 and get a Howa 1500,look's like a Rem on top,has a good Sako type extractor,and flat bottom like Win70,and is machined to a higher standard,that's if you want a good gun,however if you want a Name for the sake of the name,get your Rem.
Yes I have a Rem,but find Sako,Tikka,Howa and Winchester make better gun's,and have better design feature's.

Chris
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
New Zealand - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 07:43:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 203.97.45.186)

.300 vs .338

now the question is: Barrellife !

any clues ?

thanks

torsten <7.62@lasercon.de>
germany - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 08:35:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 62.156.8.223)

Torsten and Tony:

I have heard that the Finnish police is now using 338 LM for Airport security. One reason probably is that this round is powerfull, accurate and you can get decent match grade ammo here more easily than match grade ammo for 300 a Win Mag. Besides our military had adopted 338 LM Sako TRG-42´s officially, so ammo prices may go down as productions lots increase.

Military and police here do not buy the same stuff because they have to, but because the same stuff very often is the best there is, given the usual financial restraints.

There is AP ammo available for 338 LM and it should have almost the same trajectory than the FMJBT Lock-Base ammo. This should be able to pentrate cockpit windshields very well. You could have AP ammo also for 300 Win Mag, but when we are talking about the trajectories and energy, then 338 is better. Recoil is of course more powerfull and ammo price too, but if you can afford it, then I would pick a 338 LM. And so I did, besides I do not like 300 Win Mag´s belt and short neck.

Shooters point of view: 300 Win mag can be shot without a muzzle brake quite comfortably (given heavy rifle and good recoil pad). 338 LM really needs a muzzle brake. So if you do not like muzzle brakes (or silencers, special license needed in Germany), or want to shoot the rifle in competitions that forbid muzzle brakes, then 338 LM is definately out of the question.

There are a lot of match grade bullets available in different weight classes for 300 Win Mag. For 338 LM there are so far 3 different 250 grainers from Lapua: AP (restricted in EU), HPBT, FMJBT and the 300 grainer HPBT from Sierra and that is it. For .30 calibre you have a much broader choice of bullet producers and weights.

Barrel life: 300 Win Mag is supposedly a 1500 round rifle and so is 338 LM. One could calculate how many grains powder one uses per round and divide that number by the area available in the throat. This is not too scientific, but I quess if one has about the same amounts of powder and pressure available for each mm2 inside the throat, then the throat should burn about as fast in both rifles. I have not done the calculations, so you might want to look at that. 338 LM has a higher allowed pressure limit that 300 Win Mag (or so I believe as I have not the specs here). I do not think that in barrel life there is much difference here. Of course long 338 match grade barrels (27" I would consider minimum) are more scarce than 30 calibre barrels.

Tony: I would be interested in the info you send to Torsten. I am a reservist sniper trainer (sergeant) in the Finnish Military Reserve if you didn´t know it already. I have a specially made 338 LM custome rifle with a Nightforce scope, so all 338 LM related info interest me very much, especially now that our military is starting to use this calibre officially.

Best regards,

Heikki Juhola
Heikki Juhola <juhola@luukku.com>
Helsinki, Finland - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 09:37:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 212.16.98.41)

Didn't see a reply on here so I thought I would post one......

Stoney Point OAL guage threads are 36 pitch.

Paul M. <prmayne@ala.net>
USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 09:40:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.2.25.201)

Paul M,
just checked the thread pitch is 5/16-36N, at least that is what my "borrowed" tap sez.

Marius,
Damn fine job on the header for The Duty Roster! Now we just have to se if "Mikey likes It"

Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, SUNNY WEST BY-GAWD VIRGINNY, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 12:58:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.196)

Great site. I'm trying to get into the sharpshooting scene, but not through the military. Thanks for the great information regarding this subject. I'll be back frequently.
Patrick Hotz <trailseeker94@excite.com>
Council Bluffs, Iowa, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 13:01:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 137.197.108.14)

To R4Fan

Subt. Left Hand .308s

Remington makes the 700 VS (Varmint Synthetic) in a short action for left hand shooters. They also offer the 40XB in both Synthetic and wood(Go to Remingtoncountry.com and look in their "left hand" rifles menu). I believe Savage also makes a left hand .308, in a short action, though I am not certain. The Remington VS is going to run you about seven hundred, depending on your state sales tax. The Savage I am not certain about. You will look long and hard for any used left hand rifles/actions. Try the different gun auctions and keep up with them every day. Any browser can find them for you. Too many to list here. Oh, one more thing. Remington WILL NOT sell you an action, or even a barreled action. Liability issue I would guess.
Other options will break the bank (McMillan/Dakota/et al.) unless money is no object to you.

To Karl

Subt. Slam Fires
You wrote: " About Slamfires:

Be sure you are holding your M1A firmly. One common cause is that the rebound from the recoil trips the trigger again. If the trigger is
held to the back with a good grip, it doesn't happen.

Does the gun double when someone else is shooting it? Try it and see. From the frequency, it sounds like you, not the gun."

Karl
Karl
Damn Cold, Mn, USA - Monday, March 13, 2000 at 00:30:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.84.148.151)

Reply

I don't know your background or experience, but here's mine. I've fired every semi-auto and full auto weapon available in both the Free World and Communist inventory. I was formerly on staff with SWAT magazine (defunct) and was closely associated with Chuck Taylor when he was the editor. I have extensive field evaluation work with Chuck and others at the American Small Arms Academy, as well as "Gunsite", in the use of all manner of fully auto and semi-auto firearms and battle rifles. In my short time I have probably fired a hundred different M1-As and Garands combined. Until I purchased my M1-A, I had never before had a slam fire.

New M1-As from Springfield are shipped with a lengthy reprint of an article on the slam fire phenonmenon, so it is not something that is unheard of, though it is apparently a rare thing.

I have been a reloader and a hunter since the early Sixties.
I am a shooter, not a speculator. I qualified expert ten times while in the Marine Corps ('76-81) and was the only left hand sniper in 2d Force Reconnaissance Company during my tenure there. I think I know how to use the trigger on most weapons, the exceptions being Naval Guns, about which I know little. Thank you, however, for your uninformed speculation.

For the rest, I have isolated the problem with the slam fires I have been having with my M1-A. The problem, which has been corrected, was a trigger spring that was not creating sufficient force to engage the sear/disconnector IN EVERY INSTANCE. This was determined after making a side by side comparison with another M1-A's trigger assembly which belongs to a friend. A close inspection showed few of the parts in my trigger assembly matched those in his.

I have corresponded with another M1-A owner of a Super Match who also had the problem I was experiencing, and which Springfield corrected for him.

Another shooter/reader has informed me that many of these trigger assemblies are made up of parts which are not necessarily of Government specs or origin. Should any of you have slam fires, I urge you to consider the insufficient trigger spring/sear-disconnector tension as one possible malady.

Over—

Keith
Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango , Colorado, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 16:34:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.45.211.170)

Just a little fun with the #1 thing

338 Lapua: I am very interested in this caliber. A friend and gunsmith I know is going to make a few of the 33 Lapua's on Remington Actions. He mills the bolt face flat and uses a Sako Extractor. H.S or Acc Int. BBL, muzzle brake and beds in a McMillan Stock. The rifle becomes a single shot, because the Remington Box Mag is not long enough to handle the round. They are told to be tack drivers as his other rifles are. He is going to do a first batch for $1750.00. That is cheap! but he is just going public and is basically giving away his work this time to get a name. His name is George Gardner and he is a full time cop and part time smith. He has built 700's in 308 and an M1A for me. His work is excellent! If any of you are interested in one of the single shot 338 Lapua's email me.

M1a's to be built. George Gardner does fine work call him at Denny's Guns 816-221-9117 ext 15. Tell him Mike Miller told you to call.

Any US sourse for the 338 Lapua AP Bullets? and where does someone get a deal on the brass. So far Champions Choice has it for about 2.00 a case.

Undude/Mike
MikeMiller#1 <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 17:08:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.42)

With regards to rifle/caliber selection: I currently own a custom Remington 700 .308W, Douglas med/heavy contour stainless match grade 18" barrel, brown precision fiber stock with a 1.75X6 B&L scope. This is my concept of a "perfect" whitetail deer rifle for my terrain.
My question: I am interested in honing my long range(400-800yrd) field shooting. I avoid marked ranges as much as possible & have access to over 60 acres of good shooting habitat. I am looking to add a new rifle to my hobby & would appreciate some input. I prefer Rem. 700 & am leaning toward a Rem Sendero SSF. Caliber : I am not crazy about magnums but need a pretty flat trajectory for those times when shots must be rushed. I am considering 25-06,280, 30/06 Improved (40Degree shoulder). Elk may be a consideration some day(just to make it interesting)
Thanks,
Bill Moore
Bill Moore <lmalterna@aol.com>
Goodview, va, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 17:16:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.216.40.3)

Keith,

I apologize profusely for my ignorance about your qualifications. It was clearly evident from your first post that you know about every weapons system in existence, are of above average intelligence and height, and have 2.4 children and drive a red corvette. I have been shamed before the community and will commit hari kari at the earliest opportunity.

Seriously, this board is populated by persons of widely varying experience levels. Not recognizing your name, I noticed that no one had mentioned operator error and attempted to help you solve your problem. The error mentioned is common for shooters new to the M1A and M1.

I have never made a claim to know very much about anything here. Where I do speculate or guess about something outsde of my area of expertise, I try to put in a disclaimer.

In case you want to know, here are my qualifications: I have a MS in civil engineering, specializing in environmental problems. I generally shoot around 600/800 on highpower matches with my M1. Over the last 8 years, I have killed 14 deer with one shot each at ranges of up to 200 yards. When dove hunting, I usually shoot 2-3 shells/bird.

I have never: shot a full auto firearm, seen a ghillie, attended a sniper course, shot at over 600 yards, served in the military, shot anything larger than a 30-06, or done any of the things you have done to accumulate such an impressive resume.

I abase myself before you and wish to learn all that you know. That does not mean that I cannot offer helpful advice to some who come to the board with problems. If my suggestion is something you have already tried or is well below your experience level, feel free to ignore it. I have never pretended to be a guru who knows it all.

With respect,
Karl
Karl <dahm0030@tc.umn.edu>
Damn Cold, Mn, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 17:19:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.84.148.151)

Mike Miller: I can sell you the .338 Lapua brass for $1.75 each plus shipping. I've got access to over 900 pcs. of brass. Savings would be $25 per 100 pcs. using the cost you've found.

If you're ever in need of the 250 gr. Lapua Scenars, I can get you plenty of those as well. Got around 1900 of them. I can't remember the price off hand. I'm at my day job and don't have my price list on hand.

If you're interested, contact me offline.

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 17:59:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.222.48.30)

M1A's and Slam fires. Relax guys. Slam fires happen in both M1A's and M1 Garands. Mostly in M1 Garands coverted to 308 Win. I am not sure why except that the rifle was meant to have a 30-06 length round to chamber off the mag and maybe it is the long spring action plus the use of softer commercial primers taking less force to go off. I wont go into my qualifications here,other than the last time I shot a NM Course with the M1A I scored 760 out of 800. That alone means nothing, but I have just about melted down many M1A bbls from shooting. With that you pick up a few facts about the weapon system.

Another thing that happens much more common in the Springfield Built Match and Super Match Rifles is Hammer Follow. That is caused by not enough sear engagement. This is so common at HP matches that I am surprized that everyone does not know about it. This caused one of my Super Matches to blow up when the combination of too much head space, hammer follow and a bolt that was not fully closed all happened at the same time. I thought it was a slam fire but the Marine Corp Armorer explained it to me and showed me how it happens. Now when you have too little sear engagement and you hold the weapon in a non firm manner the hammer follow happens more often. I have seen this many times. By the way the main reason for single shots in the slow fire stages of the NM Course is too many guns go full auto and screw up the scoring. "Load one round" sound anyone?

Bottom line is both Slam Fires and Hammer Follow happen. Dont beat each other up! It would take a Real M1A/M14 Smith looking at it to tell you what was causing it. I would not shoot it until I had someone qualified look at it. Either problem could cause some bleeding.
MIkeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 18:24:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.58)

Keith Benoist:

Whoa, big fella!

You asked, he replied. Yyou didn't qualify your question with wanting responses from only 20 year vets with an M-1 who would know off-hand WITHOUT looking at your rifle what the problem was?

Hell, I though a loose hand was at least a decent response, not knowing your background. I have found a few people doing the same myself.

My background? Just smart enough to know that just about anyone may have an answer to my problem, and I always respect someone elses answers. We can't slap peple down as it keeps people from even wanting to post.
Hank <ninesoft2@earthlink.net>
Denver, CO, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 19:37:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.27.84.38)

Bravo:
"
.300 Win Mag question.

I'm about to start on developing loads for my .300 Win Mag heavy barreled rifle. Any suggestions? I have a problem with run out. Some nice load info would be of great help too.
"

I am loading Nosler 180gr Ballistic Tips, Federal 215 match primers, 79gr RL-22, and nicely preped brass. Using Stoney Points Chamber-All the OAL is 3.555" (0.030 off lands). No signes of over pressure including 3 shots using the same brass with no brass disformations, primer problems, or bullet instability. The powder numbers are Noslers book values and I haven't experimented with higher values as everything seems fine.

Shooting these things from a Sendero.

Accuracy out to 600yards at 1.25 MOA or better. (Get to go to the 1000yd range when the weather clears)

Hank <ninesoft2@earthlink.net>
Denver, CO, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 19:46:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.27.84.38)

Keith and Hank...

On M1A/M21 doubling (not slam firing).

I have found that the technique of a ridgid trigger finger, loose grip, and loose shoulder hold, a worthy thing to develop... in case they are coming down your street with molotov coctails (as seen on TV).

I can empty half a magazine with fairly good control :))

Pablito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 19:46:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.48)

Has anyone had the chance to fire the Savage 12VSS short action. It is new on the site and only comes in 22-250 & 223. Is it worth the price as far as accuracy?
Joe <roadrunner@jvlnet.com>
WI, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 20:08:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.145.182.45)

.338 Lapua Mag Brass,

A shop in Finland,(riistamaa.fi) has new and once fired brass,that's Lapua brand,I was interested in cheaper brass and Norma seemed the best deal,however Norma brass doe's not appear to be as good.
So Lapua get's my vote at the moment.

Chris
Chris <cafarr@excite.com>
New Zealand - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 21:45:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 203.97.45.200)

Heikki,
finally got through to Torsten,all the 338 LM data we collected was from our new rifle.M98 semi auto.Arizona Ammunition sent us some 300g Sierra BTHP stuff.shot through 2in bullet resistant glass at 200 meters.Had a target 2m behind glass,bullet deflection was 3\4 in from target center.we are gonna get some AP from Lapua to test.I'll let you know how it turns out.
The rifle will come out this fall or winter.it is a real sweetheart to shoot.kicks a little harder than a 30-06.some people say BS.but it's true.I shot the gun in 1000yd match last fall in 10-15 mph winds.held the crosshair deadcenter and it only drifted out to the edge of the 9 ring.where my 300 needs 35 min of drop from a 100yd zero, The 338 needed 21 min from a 100yd zero.
I will be going to Norway around mid april to teach the M82A1 armourer course.I would like to see Finland also.
gotta go
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 22:10:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.239)

Hank, 'Lito, et al—

Agreed. I was over sensitive toward Karl. Karl, my apologies. No offense intended. I had been asked this same thing before ever posting by a few of the suits who shoot at my range; the types who avoided the Southeast Asian War Games in manners not entirely dissimilar to Comrade Clinton. Puts a guy like me on edge.
Sometimes it's tough to take off the uniform.

Over—

Keith

Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 22:18:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.45.211.214)

Keith-
While I am not an M1A shooter, I have been a long time lurker and very occassional poster....having said that I appreciate and respect your years of experience and writing/ fieldwork with a magazine.
However, I can't let it pass that the name of Chuckie is again brought forward as an example to emulate or respect. I have experienced the man and his theories and would much rather stay alive......
MicTac <MicTac@AOL.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 23:15:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.173)

Keith,

No problem. Apology accepted.

Karl
Karl <dahm0030@tc.umn.edu>
Damn Cold, Mn, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 23:48:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.84.148.151)

All right guys, please excuse this post, as I said I would shut up for a while. I just have something to contribute to the slam fire / doubling thing that might help. When I started shooting Hi-Power, I started as a lot of folks did, with a M1 Garand. Mine was in 30-06, so I have no idea about the 308 proneness thread. I had 2 trigger groups. One was a "match trigger", the other was more of a stock trigger. For those who know, the second bolt and trigger group had the red "2" on them :-)
Anyway, the match trigger was for prone slow fire, and it was SINGLE LOADED! Mike Miller is SUPER right on that one! If the match trigger was "milked", it would double (and I've seen people tripple). The sear / hammer engagement was slim, but for this purpose it was fine. The other trigger had a more "robust" engagement surface, for the rapidfire stage. Moral of the story? 1. Don't milk the trigger on a "tuned" M1 type trigger group. 2. Get a second trigger assembly if this happens, and keep the other for the slowfire stage if the trigger is good and crisp (but single load!). This is pretty much inexcusable in a new rifle though, as I would have a "robust" trigger for all but the M-21 direct from the factory. That's my opinion anyway.

By the way, that's why the M1A is so difficult to master. When you single load, the round falls through the hole in the bottom of the action :-)

'Lito: BAT boys say what? HA!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Tuesday, March 14, 2000 at 23:49:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)

I was wondering if you could send me info on Navy S.E.A.L. sninpers, and your web site is really cool
Zach Botzer <SEAL-12@excite.com>
Shippenville, Pennsylvania, USA - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 00:12:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.29.104.200)

Tony White:
It has become very obvious to me that you people at Barrett need someone that is impartial to fire your new .338 rifle. For the common good of everyone that reads the roster, I offer myself to your service. I can be in Murfreesboro in 2 hours. Call me.
To everyone else:
The NRA needs every gun owner in the USA now more than ever. There is so much B.S. coming out of D.C. about you and me. We gun owners are being villified every day in the news. We would be better accepted if we chain-smoked Camels and chased young boys. Like it or not, Congress is swayed by public opinion. The NRA isn't perfect, but it is the best shot we have at this time. Wheather it's assault rifles, trigger locks, or gun shows, our opponents don't let up. They follow one lie with another. If we don't fight back, we will follow Australia, England, and the Peoples Republic of California. Please accept my apolagies if I offended any chain-smoking homosexual pedophiles. Just contact the NRA and sign up. Do it.
Thank you.
Jeff Quinn
Jeff Quinn <JeffQuinn1@aol.com>
Stewart County, TN, USA - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 02:06:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.71)

Karl and others—

Another word on slam fires/doubling. The primer and/or firing pin of the M1-A has often been implicated in the "slam fire" phenomenon. One of the articles posted in snipercountry with respect to slam fires involves the M-16, and the propensity, way back when, for this weapon to double, unexpectedly. The solution, according to the article, was to lighten the firing pin by making it out of titanium (I'm paraphrasing, because I read the article but don't recall the exact wording). In any event, the problem was solved in the M-16 by using the lighter weight titanium firing pin.
Such firing pins are not available with the M1-A, apparently. Ergo, I began looking for other options. The second most frequent problem which could be isolated, with respect to slam fires, was "high primers"; that is, primers not properly seated. This is almost an impossibilty with government match ammo (such as the M118 Lake City I was shooting at the time). To test for this, various sources suggested that rounds should be chambered (from magazine only) to determine the depth of primer indentation, prior to firing. Some dimpling of primers is normal, in certain firearms. It is even acceptable to have primers dimpled in military weapons. Military spec ammo and primers are loaded with greater tolerances than what a reloader would normally experience from primers supplied by CCI, Remington, et cetera. That is to say, military primers are more stable. This is due, in part, to the fact that full auto weapons (machine guns) are, in many cases, designed to fire from an open bolt system. In other words, some are designed to "slam fire" on purpose, in order to operate.
In any event, I just wanted to let anyone/everyone know that there "appears" to be a slam fire situation, which can occur, but which does not involve primers, poorly machined bolt groups, firing pins, or "forced chambers". Too little resistance in the trigger spring to cause the hammer to effectively engage the sear during the "cocking" phase of the cycle of operation can result in a "slam fire". I agree with Karl that unpracticed shooters can experience doubles without realizing they have been the cause. However, if any of you experience a "slam fire" in an M1-A and wonder what may be the cause, I suggest you check the trigger group, and particularly the tension against the sear, then have the parts replaced if the spring tension is too light.
Incidentally: It is dangerous to single feed (place a round in the chamber then let the bolt go home) any military style weapon (M-16, AR-15, M1-A, M1 Garand, and even the M1 Carbine, the Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30, and so forth). These weapons have "floating" firing pins, and the energy of collision from releasing a bolt against a chambered round can cause the weapon to fire unexpectedly. These weapons have been designed in such a way to reduce the energy of collision (when chambering a round) to rather exacting tolerances. Stripping a round from the magazine and feeding it into the chamber will not, in most cases, produce enough velocity to allow a floating firing pin to discharge a primer. On the other hand, allowing a bolt to fly home with full force, against an already chambered live round, can result in a detonation. Depending on where the muzzle is pointed at the time a round is so chambered can result in an accidental discharge which is headed for who knows where.

Over—

Keith
Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 03:30:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.45.211.209)

Keith:
Yes, it's not "good form" to chuck a round into the chamber and let fly in MAG FED RIFLES. With a M1A, the "good form" is to chuck a single round into the MAG(!), pull the op rod back, and allow the bolt to do it's thing. This is exactly because of the reason you stated. This having been said, I can personally attest to the fact that the extractor tension slows the bolt down as it goes over the head of the case (I'm switching to M1 Garand now by the way.....) and I've never had a problem with this in a M1 Garand. The difference on this is that you have to allow the bolt to run forward some just to over-ride the bolt catch from having no clip inserted (WATCH THAT THUMB!!!). This slows the bolt down significantly in its own right, and is how I (and other "fellow dinosaurs") did things when competing "way back when". I've never had a reason to try this with a carbine or AR, but I have tried it just for kicks (while worrying about if it would fire) with my mini 14, an origional 180 series, which does dimple the primers, but doesn't set them off. In my experience, CCI tends to be the hardest primer, and they are US contractors from what I've read. I use Winchesters now exclusively and have had no problems. This might be a case of "not in my rifle" or like a guy jumping off a 10 story building and saying that everything is fine as he passes the third :-)
In any case, closing the bolt on a chambered cartridge is par with a Garand in competition. I'm NOT disagreeing with you though, as you're right on track about firing pins without springs in general and rifles with mags specifically!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 03:57:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.223)

Slam Fires - Titanium Firing Pins

Keith- The M16/AR-15 slam fires were stopped by using harder primers not titanium firing pins (do you really think the Army is going to spend those bucks)After chambering rounds in an M16 look at the case the primer is imprinted from the firing pin. The problems were from less than spec primers ( I think this has been rehashed enough )

Never being a M1 owner (and I got rid of my M14 as quick as I could) I can't comment on the lightening pin method there.
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 04:19:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.133.207)

A friend of mine was just given a 1903 A3 with a 7 digit serial# and is drilled for scope mounts, but none came with the rifle. Was this common with the A3 and how can you tell if it is one of the brittle receivers? I read the article by Dick Culver but can't find his email address. Anyone have any information that would be useful for this rifle. He is planning on shooting it this weekend, is this dangerous? Thanks in advance!
Joe D. <roadrunner@jvlnet.com>
Dalton, WI, USA - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 04:56:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.145.182.75)

M1a doubling;
During my learning curve w/ my M1A I discovered that 4 or 5 times fired Rem brass was causing the occasional double. The primers were seated properly but the heads of the cases were rather beat up. Of course it could have been a soft hold and wrong trigger technique. All of that has been "rectalfied" (rectified). I am not an expert on the M1A but 20 yrs in the Corps taught me to at least shoot tight groups w/ a rack-grade weapon out to 500 meters. Just goes to show that there is always more to learn.
The above is for the general info of those that are possibly still learning about their M1As. Hopefully this will keep them from making the same mistakes as pertains to often-reloaded brass.
Please, no flames needed... I use once-fired now.
And none of the above applies to those w/ the level of experience as the most recent folks who have been running this thread.
Spud,
Out
Dennis <usmcspud@mindspring.com>
merced, Kalifornicateya, USA - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 08:15:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.223.198)

On M-1903 Springfields the transitional serial number ranges are 800,000 for Springfield Armory, and 285,507 for the Rock Island versions. Springfield Armory went to nickel steel receivers at # 1,275,767. I would pass on anything close on the minus side of these numbers.
A wise old gunsmith named Roy Dunlap, who wrote a couple VERY good gunsmithing books and had just a little experience with surplus rifles, once told me that it was wise to Rockwell test and Magnaflux any of the old turnbolt rifles.

Chao!

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY , BY-GAWD, USA - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 12:55:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.178)

just wanted to say that I'm one shooter that has learned boat-loads from the "slam fire" exchange.

It would seem a little "fire" in the discussion brings out the very best this forum has to offer....

Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 13:19:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.20.190.1)

1903 brittle receivers - The brittle receiver problem only exists with the 1903. They didn't start making 1903A3 receivers until after the problem with the early receivers had been recognized and fixed.

Pat T
Pat T <ptidwell@home.com>
Placentia, Ca, USA - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 15:58:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.0.195.244)

Can somebody explain to me the differences between a 40X and 700, aside from price?

Thanks,
Mitch

Mitch <Mitch_aylor@hill-rom.com>
IN, USA - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 16:37:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.251.127.194)

Hi,

What is the consensus of opinion about glass versus mechanical reticules? Is one better than the other for the shock loads from a .50 BMG rifle? Is there a good reason to select the Premier Reticules version of the Leupold Mk IV M1 scope over the stock Leupold scope?

How do tactical shooters shoot at night? With a 10x42mm scope the relative brightness factor is only 16 which is pretty dim. Has anybody tried the (fiber optic?) illuminated mil-dot reticule?

Thanks,

Dave
David Lawson <lawsonda@compuserve.com>
Farmingdale, NY, USA - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 17:28:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.112.58.14)

Does anyone know if there is a QD adapter for the Steyr SSG69 that will interface with an Elcan mount? I have a picture of an SSG with a U.S. AN/PVS4 mounted. I want to find a way to mount an Elcan mount PVS2 to the SSG69.
Also would like to make contact with others who are shooting bolt guns with night scopes for information exchange.
Thanks guys,
Don
Florissant Colorado
Don <tdfarmer@concentric.net>
USA - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 17:53:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.83.80.57)

Kevin—

That's a good point. However, I found this article when I was reading up on slam fires. I copied it to Duty Roster from Sniper Country's "Articles and Commentary" section. Seems there are differing opinions.

Slam Fire: a Parable...

by Walt Kuleck

During the development of the M16, field testing revealed an unexpected tendency to slam fire, that is, for the cartridge being chambered to discharge without the trigger having been pulled. Needless to say, this created much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the Technical Coordinating Committee.Since Secretary McNamara had been led to believe that the M16 was a fully developed weapon system, the fault had to lie with the ammunition.

Thus the Remington executive was brought forth and mightly chastised for the high crime and misdemeanor, "high primers." When the Remington
man revealed that examination of tens of thousands of cartridges revealed no high primers, and that were the fault to be with the primer height one would expect out-of-battery fires rather than slam fires, he was told, "never mind."

Then Springfield Armory did a kinetic analysis and Lo! The firing pin inertial energy was 10 inch pounds! And the specified "no fire" energy level for the primer was 6 inch pounds! And the multitude stood in wonder, wondering why the d*mn thing didn't slam fire every time!

But, the M16 was a fully developed weapon system, so the primer, it must be changed! Only after a yield analysis revealed a potential 90% scrap rate with the new spec, was that avenue abandoned.

And in the end, Colt lightened the firing pin, and all was well again. Until Ball Powder, but that is another story.

Oh, and in 1941 Springfield Armory lightened the M1 Rifle firing pin. That couldn't have been to reduce slam fires, could it?

Some folks never learn.

And that's the rest of the story.

--Walt Kuleck

PS: The story of the M16 firing pin, the .223's primer hardness, et.al., can be found in Stevens & Ezell's "The Black Rifle":

Slam Fire: the M16 Story

To get your very own lightweight M16-type firing pin for your AR-15, see: QMI Titanium AR-15 Firing Pin

--then go to:

AR-15 Parts & Accessories

As Clint says, "Fulton Armory sells & recommends the AR-15 QMI Titanium firing pin (real light, lower inertial energy, faster lock time, slices black
forest hand tossed bread, etc.)!"

For more information on Slam Fires, go to:
Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, March 15, 2000 at 19:04:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.45.211.121)

What can y'all tell me about the Redfield 3X9 that was used by USMC snipers in Vietnam? I passed one up at a recent gunshow for $495 with an M14 mount. It had a large ring on the power adjustment (reminiscent of the ART II), and this ring was marked
john <ghostdncr@yahoo.com>
KY, USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 01:32:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.89.150.112)

Just received this site from a friend two nights ago. And it does seem to have a decent value. It will certainly help to keep skills sharp on those days when you can't get to the range.
www.shooters.com/stewartwilson/longrangeshooting.html
1* <SirNyt@excite.com>
Ohio, USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 02:55:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.90.98.170)

Question. Other than autagua, is there an elevated one-piece base available for a Remington PSS that would allow me to mount a scope with a 56 mm objective scope (nightforce) with burris signature z-rings? Wouldn't have to be tapered. I like the burris insert system but the rings aren't high enough. Prefer not to use 2 piece bases. Thanks in advance!
jored <jorgensl@ix.netcom.com>
USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 03:35:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.30.108.3)

Keith: I am willing to concede the conflicting info issue.
When we were testing the M16A2 as part of our SARP (small arms replacement program) for the FN C1A1 (FAL) we had reams of crap supplied by Colt and the US Gov't (mainly telling us that they had ironed all the kinks out) We picked the A2 over the FNC,SA-80,Steyr AUG (and no one could get the H&K G11 to work) All early problems were blamed on either the troops (go figure) or ammunition (be it propellant or primers) - Our first SARP courses (how to use the C7) were taught directly out of US FM's
We took auto because we believed training is better (if they ever got it) than mechanical (3RD Burst),kept the A1 sight (more damage resistant), and hammer forged our barrels for Match grade quality (althought they never get broken in right- hey how 'bout a 30rd burst)
Our only problems were recievers exploding (only a minor problem right) due to poor metal (or aluminum) working. And terrible luck with the first batches of made in Canada (read Quebec) SS109 ammo.

I appreciate this is likely way of tanget (and target) but I had some
time to write.

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 05:00:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.130.189)

Would like to find out some info on the USMC M40A1 stock. A gent on the Emporium is offering three for sale from Salvage. Are they for long or short action Rems? Fibreglass construction? Is the comb high? If cracked, can they be perhaps pinned and 'glassed to repair them?
Sorry for the ignorance, but I haven't seen a picture of one in many years. Any help would be appreciated.
Spud,
Out
Dennis <usmcspud@mindspring.com>
Merced, Kalisocialistfornia, USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 05:21:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.220.181)

Kevin,

Isn't your C7 (M16A2) made by Demaico (spelling?), a Canadian Company, not Colt or FN as ours are here in the states. Maybe thats why you had problems:-)

And about the SS109, the general concensus is that your ammo is more accurate than US made 62 grain stuff. Most of the international combat shooters from here that shoot at CFSAC would rather have your ammo. I know, I was scambling for some 2 years ago when I last shot the service rifle class.

Out here.

Gooch
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 06:55:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.164)

Gentlemen ( o.k. , it's a stretch )thanks for the help gathering info on the military .300 w/m match load...it is working out nicely...i will report more later. osok
hooch <glocker21@yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 10:20:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.127.83.66)

For the people who ordered Lecica LRF800 from S.W.F.A.they are sending them out. I recieved mine in the mail been waiting for mine since January.
Jim
James Barko <g2rk73mx@gateway.net>
Calumet City, Il., USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 13:02:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.28.39.44)

Hello !

I will visit San Jose in about two weeks time, and I would like to visit some gun shops in the area. Does anyone know any good stores that would be worthwhile to visit. This time I will not buy any firearms, but a good scope or other good equipment would be a possibility. As I will travel to this area more often in the future, it is possible that I will then buy a 700 VS-LH in 308 if I can locate one.

So are there any good shops around San Hose or San Fransisco ?

Heikki
Heikki Juhola <juhola@luukku.com>
Helsinki, Finland - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 13:54:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 212.16.98.41)

Gooch - Yes you are correct the C7 (and C7A1,C8[carbine],C9A1[M249w/Elcan],C6[MAG-58] are made by Deimaco near Kitchener,Ont. Canada under licence from Colt - and the problems were with Diemaco guns. What I was attempting to relate was the reams of product improvement data that had been supplied to us from the US Armed Services that were trying to explain away the earlier problems with the M16. Our C77[SS109] ball had some teething problems [concentricity of the penetrator wedge] that caused the first million rounds to be scrapped. I believe you M855 has similar history.
As a side note Diemaco has conracted out C7's and C7A1's for the Dutch and Kuwati's. We also dumped the Thermold mags in 95 for metal ones
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 15:03:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.132.59)

I should have said the 9 gun and C-6 are under license from FN.
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 16:12:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.137.147)

Dies: Redding vs. CH

Have always used RCBS, Lee, Lyman (gack!) and Hornady dies in the past. For my next set of .308 dies I am looking at some of the more premium manufacturers, such as Redding and CH. I was thinking about getting a set of the CH TiN plated dies, as they are supposed to be expecialy long-lived and of high quality. Other suggestions will be entertained as well.

Thanks:

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown , sc, USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 16:25:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

In reading the reviews on the I.O.R. 2.5x10 tactical scope. I went to the px but the doors are closed for the time being. does anyone have any prices, or a site that may have the info.
thanks tim
Tim <scottmt@fort-frances.lakeheadu.ca>
USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 17:15:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.211.85.20)

I have come to the conclusion that building,having a rifle made,is the best way to go for my application, which is to shoot 1000+ meters with great accuracy. I need imput on barrels, stocks, gunsmiths, triggers, etc. I've not shot this type of distance in the past so am not familiar with the hardware to do it. I need to speak to a professional long range shooter. There are to many options for me to decide on my own, due to my lack of experience. Thank You.
Nate <ndknacp@aol.com>
USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 17:18:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.199.209)

Heikki - We'll try to make sure that the weather is nice while you're here! I can tell you about all of the San Jose area shops, but maybe we should take it offline. If you're shopping for a scope we can probably narrow it down to one or two stores, although there may be some good places up in the East Bay that Mike Miller could fill you in on. The shop in San Francisco I liked recently closed it's doors so I'm not familiar with any of the shops there anymore.

If you've got time, maybe we could arrange to get some of the local Rosterfarians together at a range somewhere, and everyone can laugh at how bad my shooting technique (or lack thereof) is! :)

If you're here on April 2nd and have the day free, there's the monthly "Mudville" match in Sacramento as well.

Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
San HOsay, CA, USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 18:01:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.133.22.71)

POST REMOVED....COURTESY OF ACTIVE SPAM FILTERING..........
Nate Grant <ngrant943@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 18:08:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 167.240.254.1)
I like the new look on the mainpage. Keep up the good work!
JHall <jhall@family-net.net>
IL, USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 19:42:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.0.57.45)
Nate Grant...

There is both an offical policy, and a courtesy issue, relating promoting business "Deals" and "for sale" stuff on the Roster.
Please keep this stuff off the Duty Roster... The Roster it's for discussion and general foolishness... not for hustling or get rich quick scams.
Please keep this stuff off the Roster.

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 19:54:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.41)

Hear, hear, 'lito. Get rich quick bad, bad. Please stop.

My die suggestion. If you're already set up to FL size a particular caliber, look into Wilson dies & a small arbor press to neck size & load at the range. Once set up, you can reload almost anywhere. What's another couple hundred bucks when we're gettin' rich quick?

I have a shortcut on my desktop to the DR, hadn't seen the new main page. Nice job, whoever.

There was a post a while back regarding palmtops as data books. We got a handful of palmtops at work. If you can keep batteries in the thing, and once there is more coverage, this would be a mother beautiful range, fx, or training tool. Once they're refined and take the VCR, PC, cel phone price spiral, that is. One could conceivably present a situation on the DR and get e-mailed with advice(ad nauseum, no 2 concurring) in minutes.
Jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
Portland, Or, USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 20:40:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.133.111)

Hey, there is a Tasco 10X42 Super Sniper for sale on ebay! Check it out.
ed <orion_5150@yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 21:30:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.89.150.112)
Nate, You said that you are in LE. Yet your post makes me think of someone that sells crap out of a van, not the professional that you say you are. The post looks like nothing more than a way to get around "spamming" email. Before you post crap like that again, please look up "ethics", and if that doesn't make you think, then just try common sense!
Joe D. <roadrunner@jvlnet.com>
Dalton, WI, USA - Thurnse!, March 16, 2000 at 21:41:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.145.182.56)
Kevin

What did the Canadian Govt dislike about the FNC? I picked one up some years ago but there is little info on them. That I can find anyway. I have the paratrooper model. Are m-16 mags compatible? The metal G.I. mags seem to work ok but I have some Orlite Israeli mags that needed slight modification. You mentioned the Canadian military
doesn't use Thermold mags anymore. How come?
Thanks
John <jhugdahl@pressenter.com>
Hudson, WI, USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 22:19:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.100.170.91)

It's a good day to shoot out here in NW Oregon. I am looking for some ballistic information on Winchester Black Talon ammunition. I picked up a box of 180 grain .308 Win Fail-Safe Black Talon, there is some trajectory information out to 500 yards on the box. I am looking for the longer range trajectory, and hopefully the energy also. Winchester's web site does not have the Talon information anymore. Note, this will hopefully be for elk season this fall. Anyone have any good leads?

Thanks,
Brian

Brian Snider <bolt_308@yahoo.com>
OR, USA - Thursday, March 16, 2000 at 23:53:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.36.35.69)

CANADIAN SARP TRIALS,
John:
I am racking my brain here (it has been awhile)
As I can recall the FNC was heavy, not especially accurate or reliable. Colt's A2 was pretty much the best gun there. Cost was also a factor (the A2 was cheaper to biuld and license)
From what I recall the FNC had its own mag (I didn't think the M16 mags fit).
SA-80 (ugly fragile and awkward)
AUG (see SA-80)
None of the bullpups faired well (troops were used to C1's).
They were way to fragile [to much thin plastic]
The G.11's caseless rounds could cook off, fell apart, and general was a big miss - I think we should have sunk a bundle into R&D w/ H&K because if it works it'll be big.
The SA-80 SUSAT legacy came back to curse us in the ELCAN [good scope stupid mount] What is the point of making a virtually indestructable scope incorporated into a flimsy mount?? [Had a running debate with my 'betters' about this one]

The Thermold mags are crap!!!!! The lips break - the mag it self will disintergrate if dropped loaded. And in the Cold [Hmm Canadian climate] the mag cannot be used with any reliability for fear it will self destruct. The did several fixes [there is a year # near the lips] the later ones were quite a bit better. But when doing A-T-C (advance to contacts) it is a bit disconcerting when attempting to reload only to find out you crushed your mags a couple of bounds ago.
The first reciever explosions we had were blamed on troops use of non-issue mags (USGI) but That was a hard one for anyone to swallow and eventually it was found the intial batches were inproperly constructed. It could make a nice range mag [in the later models 93+],but why bother USGI are cheaper andmore durable
DON'T believe anyone selling Thermold mags as 'battle tested' cause they fail miserably.

The 9 gun why we put the ELCAN on it I'll never know [someone who doesn;t have an inclining of the 'Theory of MG Fire']

C-6 Excellent piece of Kit (as you Yanks have eventually come arounbd to seeing - why the M60 stayed so long can only be attributed to stupidity and ignorance- kinda like adopting the M14 over the FN - made in America so what if it's crap)

I probaly have pissed off just about everyone I can so Bye
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 00:12:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.143.105)

Ebay has ALL the sniper stuff you'd ever want, slings, Redfield, scopes, rings, Redfield, M118 brass, parts, M49 spotting scopes, Redfield, Sierra bullets, reloading, Redfield,etc. Everything but the ammo and rifles, and they are available on Gunbroker.com or AuctionArms.com. Want something really odd...just type in their search engine the item you need, check the small box for 'search descriptions' and enjoy bidding on great items. If they don't have it today, it'll be for sale tomorrow. Patience pays off. Great site here, like your new main page.
sven <svenska50@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 00:29:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.174.99.52)
Kevin,
You need to try harder! You haven't pissed me off yet. Do you think it's because I lived near Smithers, B.C. for several years?
Frank
Frank <kubikari@goplay.com>
Bandon, Or, USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 00:52:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.214.119.50)
Undude Mike,
Your test you mentioned to me on the phone is a 90% go so far.When will be the latest dates you can recieve said items? I will be leaving for Norway on 15 April. I would like to have them finished and possibly to you not long after. If that is too early, maybe early May.
Gotta go.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 01:16:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.2.189)
I hope that everyone here is keeping a careful watch on their evening news and dont forget what they see in the coming elections. Its not just Slick Willy we should be concered with its the entire Democratic agenda that will have them coming to your house to inventory your arsenal before long. Watch as the Demos place their top female constituents on every freaking tv in America and tell every tree hugging mom and pop that the Nra doesnt represent America the anti gun demos do. Think their not getting them to the polls with this crap better think again.
God bless the NRA, and dont forget to go VOTE if you love that firearm so much. May not have it long if you dont.
ad <adsjunkbox@mindspring.com>
al, USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 01:39:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.130.14)
I am looking for information concerning a scope mount for a Springfield Armory M1A. I recently broke off the mounting bolt from an inexpensive mount in the receiver. I was able to get the stub out of the receiver but I now need a new bolt. Does anyone know what size (thread pitch,length,etc.)bolt I would need?? I do not want to buy a new mount but taking my rifle into a hardware store would not be exactly low-key. I want to use a steel bolt,preferably with a hex-head,as my mount came with an alloy bolt with big knobs. Any information would be greatly appreciated.(and yes, those big knobs are part of the reason the bolt broke.)
John P. Church <jpchurch@home.com>
USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 02:08:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.252.225)
Jeeze!
I miss a couple of weeks, come back to find a new look and sleezy salesmen plastering their slimy get rich quick messages on the site.
>
What next, a DNC spokesman telling us Gore would never confiscate our guns???
>
I like the new look, but the sleeze-ball has got to go!!!
>
Utgardaloki
Somewhere in His Lardship Ryan's feifdom

Utgardaloki <Utgardaloki@law.com>
Illinois, USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 02:27:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 157.178.1.101)

John P. Church:

Near as I have been able to determine so far, the screw used in the M14 reciever is a 12-28, a
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 03:37:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

A La, "Nate"
Beware false prophets.

A La, The latest rhetoric from Reno, et al,

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right." Thomas Paine, Common Sense, American Patriot. 1776.
Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 03:39:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.106)

Tony, I am up for the project as soon as you guys are ready. I will be in New Mexico in June. I have all the scopes lined up and ready to go. I am going to US Optics on Monday, yes they say my scope is ready, so it will be in the scope test.

As to Gunshops in the Bay Area. Large one in San Jose called Reeds. I know nothing about it. They like retail prices more than I do. I usually go to Traders Sprots in San Leandro when looking for deals. Give me a call when you get here and I will see what I can do if you want a new Leupold Scope from them. Use the Tactical Intervention number, but be warned I am going to bend your ear about the 338 Lapua. It's new to me and I am all ears.

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 05:24:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.196)

I shot the Windrunner XM107 today!!!

This rifle has already more than 3500 rounds through the barrel. It's been shot at Fort Bragg, Quantico, Coronado, Aberdeen PG, etc.

Today Bill Ritchie and I fired 30 rounds through it. It was my first time ever to shoot a .50 Cal. BMG. I'm pleased to report that I got a 2-inch group at 100yd, for a beginner, using 750gr HSM A-max match. The recoil is very mild; it felt less than that of a 12-ga shotgun. It didn't bother my shoulder at all (I fired 15 rounds). What bothered/hurt me was my cheek/jaw, I don't know why. Bill said it looks like I had my cheek in the wrong place and was not giving it a tight cheekweld through the first few rounds. If anyone out there knows why a .50 BMG "kicks" the cheek/jaw more than the shoulder, please stand and speak.

Triggerfifty (Dean), since you will be taking out the Windrunner later, I recommended to Bill to give you a brand new barrel, so that you can give it justice in evaluating it. He said he will.

marksman <marksman@iepsnet.com>
San Bernardino, CA, USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 06:03:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.76.184.40)

Can someone point me towards a firearm company that makes a barrel that is left hand twist? I'm not interested in buying I'm just wondering where the makers of such barrels are. Why is it that most barrels are right hand twist? Is it just industry standard and that is what the cutters and button reamers are commonly offered as?

I can't see a bullet caring much wether it twists this way or that as long as it isn't end over end. I don't check the roster much anymore so if you could send a quick mail my way I'd much appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Bakersfield, Ca. , USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 09:49:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.165.0.158)

B. Douglas...
There are two reasons you won't find Left-hand twist rifle barrels on rifles.

First is that the (dreaded) spindrift goes in the direction of the twest, and we wouldn't want our lovely bullets going towards the left, now would we ;)

But the real reason, is that the barrels are threaded with a right hand thread, and each time a bullet hits the throat, it gets a right hand, or clock-wise "slam", and the counter force hits the barrel with a counter clock-wise slam, tending to continue to tighten it. If the bullet hit left-hand rifling, the counter forces would try to loosen. and unscrew the barrel.

There have been some pistols with left hand rifling, but they don't have screwed in barrels.

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 12:14:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.121)

Does anyone know of a source for the Simrad KN-200 night vision sight. Kigre used to be the licensed U.S. manufacturer but they are out of the night vision business. This is the compact night vision scope that attached directly to the Unertl 10X used on USMC M-40A1. I know it was in use by the USMC in the early 90's. I don't know if it's still in service.
Mike <MLemartejr@aol.com>
USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 15:03:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.53)
I watched our 1 Dutch/German Corps "Dashing Sword" Rhine crossing today.

very impressive ! AH 64, Chinook, Cougar, Tornado, F-16, Halo jumps, Fast Rope, M3 Amphibians, Leopard 2 A 5, Gepard, Marder, Fuchs, Ferries, Bridging equipment down to Outboarded Inflatables etc. Great Show.

Spoke to some Dutch Trooper about the DIEMACO and the plastic Magazines. He said they turned the Mag springs around and that helped the problem.

Played with a AN PV ???? Thermal Imaging scope. Outstanding ! Lots of new technology on display there.

Gave a Dutch SLA (Sniper) this site´s adress. let´s see if he shows and sounds off.

t
torsten <7.62@lasercon.de>
germany - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 16:14:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 62.157.36.164)

Neck Turning

Anybody got any recommendations for some quality case neck turning equipment? I'm looking for something as simple, effective and cheap as I can get...

Bullet Swaging

Does anybody out on the Roster swage their own bullets? Been looking for info on this kind of thing... Found a company called Corbin that sells all sorts of bullet swaging dies and components... anybody else know of other companies selling these dies? Does anyone out there know the economy of swaging your own bullets? Do you end up saving much per bullet or is it really only useful to get a better made bullet than as a penny saver?

Gotta say, this looks like really interesting stuff... another addiction to go with shootin, cleanin and loadin...

-JD
Jeremy Dombroski <R13@austin.rr.com>
Austin, TX, USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 18:26:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.12.170.6)

Carbon Barrels

I recently asked the guys at Christensen Arms about the lifespan of their carbon barrels and I was basically told that they expect a longer barrel life than normal all steel barrels. According to them, this would be because it sheds heat faster than your normal barrel.

This sound right? Is heat dissipation a factor in barrel wear? Heck, what are the factors.... friction, corrosion, heat?

Custom Synthetic Stocks

Anyone know of a company or individual who makes customer specified synthetic stocks?

Cheap Loading Components

Just lost my job.. again.. so now more than ever cheap loading supplies are a must... :D I'd appreciate any e-mails anybody could send me with info on some good sources for the cheapest brass, powder, primers n bullets. Primarily looking for cheap .308 stuff, match brass, Varget powder, Fed 210 primers n Sierra bullets...

Thanks!

-JD
Jeremy Dombroski <R13@austin.rr.com>
Austin, TX, USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 18:35:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.12.170.6)

Hi guys,
Just bought a Savage 93FVSS heavy barrell .22 win mag to get rid of some annoying little varmits that I have. The stock fore end is really weak and will flex quite a bit. Any suggestions for making it a little more rigid without spending too much money? The stock is very narrow, so I would think that it would be pretty hard to work with. Keep in mind that I am not a gunsmith by any stretch. In fact, the rifle is plenty accurate for what I intend to do so I should probably just leave well enough alone. However, that is not in my nature so I'm afraid I'm gonna have to tinker with it. Thanks.
JHall
JHall <jhall@family-net.net>
IL, USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 19:39:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.0.57.54)

Everyone that keeps up with this website needs to go to ww.mightywords.com. I got this off of rec.guns, so many of you might have already seen it. There are articles written about each ammendment in the bill of rights. I think that you will be very interested in what they have to say about the 2nd ammendment. I am not trying to start another long and raging off topic debate, but I think that we all need to keep up with these things. These are the articles, after all, that are forming the opinions of many non gun owners. Visit the site, read all 20 some pages of the article, and then send someone an email telling them what you think about it.

JHall
JHall <jhall@family-net.net>
IL, USA - Friday, March 17, 2000 at 21:58:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.0.57.13)

Has anyone had problems or good luck with Burris scopes? Are they as good as Leupold and Nikon or as bad as a cheap Tasco? Thanks for the help.

Thanks,

Scott
Scojo <scojo@techie.com>
USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 01:16:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.34.244.46)

I am thinking of purchasing a M1A (M14) do you have to get a Springfield "super match" to get good accuracy? I'll probably never be a 1000 yard shooter, so lets say coyote accurate, out to 400 yrds. Will a chrome lined bbl in the less expensive springfield deliver good accuracy? thanks for your time, gents. Keith
Keith <furflyin@yahoo.com>
Plains, Tx, USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 03:30:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.240.158.173)

EVERYONE,
Go to the Emporium. Look for message " Very Important". Someone doesn't think too kindly of the residents here.
So, Mr. Cole Cash, Just stay away!
There's my .02 cents worth. Anyone?
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 04:29:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.188)

For anyone interested in taking up Mr. Cole Cash on his statement of "So There HA like to see u do anything about that now" I offer the following information about him and his internet account.

Best of luck to you gentlemen,

Ehud

________________________________________
Subdomain: Sprint.ca
Date-Received: 1996/11/12
Date-Approved: 1996/11/19
Date-Modified: 1999/10/04
Organization: Sprint Canada Inc.
Type: For-Profit Corporation, Federally Incorporated
Description: Sprint Canada Inc.
Admin-Name: Admin
Admin-Title: Network/System Administrator
Admin-Postal: Sprint Canada Inc.
2550 Victoria Park Avenue
Suite 400
North York, Ontario
M2J 5E6
Admin-Phone: +1 (416) 496 4949
Admin-Fax: +1 (416) 498 3507
Admin-Mailbox: admin@sprint.ca
Tech-Name: Admin
Tech-Title: Sprint Canada Administrator
Tech-Postal: Sprint Canada Inc.
2550 Victoria Park Avenue
Suite 400
North York, Ontario
M2J 5E6
Tech-Phone: +1 (416) 496 4949
Tech-Fax: +1 (416) 498 3507
Tech-Mailbox: admin@sprint.ca
NS1-Hostname: guinness.sprint.ca
NS1-Netaddress: 207.107.250.140
NS2-Hostname: murphys.sprint.ca
NS2-Netaddress: 207.107.250.150

Ehud <private@priv.net>
USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 04:50:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.34.244.14)

model 700 sendros in 270 cal. and wondering if there are clips that replace the factory installed 5 rd. magazine within the stock if so can you direct me to where I may find more information about these? Im active military and sharp shooter and would be very interested in this item I have heard rumors that such 10-20 rd clips made from modified M14 10rd. clips exist but am unsure where to find them.
Thanks for you time (BM2)McCool,Brian Navy seal team 5
Brian S McCool <b1mccool@aol.com>
corpus christi, texas, USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 05:01:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.198.162)

Why do you suppose that people like Mr. Cash always seem to post their comments on the emporium rather than the roster? Just something that struck me as odd...

JHall
JHall <jhall@family-net.net>
IL, USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 05:03:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.255.89)

Just some little, no load trying to get us going guys. Don't humor him.I'm just glad there are no REAL snipers around. What a relief.
Don
Don <tdfarmer@concentric.net>
USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 05:11:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.83.80.131)

I'm looking for anyone out there that graduated from the US Army Sniper School Class 8-90. Drop me a line and let me know what's up. And remember, "one magazine, one kill!" Just kidding guys...
Rudy <lrudolph@mail.cyou.com>
USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 05:59:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.49.145.31)

Lito,

Thanks for the quick reply there.
I knew there was some kind of reason why left hand twists aren't incountered, just couldn't think of the reason why. After see how that concept has been used in so many other machines and pieces of equipment I can hardly believe I didn't see it.

By the way, how did the Brownells Teflon Molly work out? I learned one lesson from the stuff, prepare everything you plan on coating so that you can do it in one session and then recoat as soon as possible if needed. Those spray nozzles they use, combined with the can design, are lacking in a big way. I tryed doing a few other minor things like 3 days after my first coating session and the cans didn't have anything left in the way of pressure. I checked the nozzles and they would clog up but I was able to clean them so they would restore their spray patterns but the cans gave up the ghost on me. I'd clean the nozzles and try to spray and it would just sputter and spit. To use the rest of the contents I ended up putting a hole in the can and draining the rest into an airbrush all so I could finish three more magazines.

Did you get the pic I sent to you? Didn't mean to increase your download time for your mail, just thought I'd send you a pic of what I did. The finish appears to be mighty fine for the lower reciever and barrel and it contrasts a bit more when you put a light coat of oil on it.
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Bakersfield, Ca., USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 06:24:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.165.2.84)

The Cole Cash comment,
Mrs. Cash is gonna have to try alot harder than that if she thinks she can fire us up. Lookout! Theres one of them real snipers. Oops, my mistake, just one of those fake cardboard cutouts.

Eric R. <Roody5150@aol.com>
Cabot, Pa, USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 07:35:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.57)

Cole Cash???

Cole Cash, Who the hell is Cole Cash? Jeez, I take a day away from SC to chase a loooong legged birdie, and I miss a long shot at "Master Cole Cash" ;))

B. Douglas...

I did get your photo... nice job. Sorry to all you'z guys for being behind in my e-mail. I just got a new major graphic arts computer, and the hunnymoon is a bit rough. In that computer love/hate thing, I'm in MAJOR hate right now.

I haven't started the teflon thing yet (the computer!!)... you said the spray didn't take on some of your gun parts well... why??

On the twist thing... I got an e-mail from one of my Rostafarian friends, who had a .44 Mag revolver (a LOTTA' torgue) with a left hand twist, and a right hand barrel thread, and (you guessed it), the barrel kept unscrewing it self! (the gun was discontinued!).
I really shouldn't mention the name, but it was named after a very large snake from the Amazon river district! and had a grade "B" movie named after it ;)

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 13:15:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.17)

SMITH & WESSON- has sold the farm to Clinton regarding smart weapons and locks and such. They will require the dealers to conduct background checks beyond existing laws according to reliable source.
Also will incorporate hidden serial # and keep ballastics records of each handgun according to the latest release. What will a Smith cost now?
Who will follow next? The Pony people? Ruge rats? Stand by for major axe to fall.
All part of disarmament 2000 sans Kingon administration.

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 15:28:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

Hey dudes, lived thru one more St. Patty's!!

Carbon fiber barrels:

I'm taking a good hard look into these puppies. Although they do dissipate heat throughout the barrel quicker than regular steel barrels, I am not sure that the throat erosion will be much different than that of a heavy barreled action. For one thing, it is still a steel barrel wrapped with carbon fiber. The machining process will induce more stress on the barrel, and since it is turned to such a small diameter, there will be, in my view, more of a chance that that bore will not be concentric with the outside diameter of the barrel, probably more bent barrels than not. I have made barrels for this process, for Magnum research, and until I believe that they have found convincing evidence that barrel life is extended, I would stick to 6mm and under barrels with this process.

Have ya heard anything on the 7mm Ultra Mag's yet?? Here is yet another attempt from the barrelmakers to make mo' money, in my opinion. You think yer STW's shot out fast!!!! We ran a couple test barrels for Remington Arms, so expect to hear some hubbub in about 8 months about this cartridge. Basically, if you go to your Cartridges of the World book, Vol. 8, it will be listed as the 7mm Dakota in the Proprietary Cartridges section. 7mm is too small of a hole to push that much powder thru, unless you are expecting short barrel life. I hear they will be trying the 6.5 Ultra and quite possibly (why??) the 257. Until we have a great advance in smokeless powder engineering, I'd hold off on the Ultra Mag's under 30 caliber, kids.

The life of a barrel will be the barrelmaker's wet dream for the next millenium until they come up with a barrel steel that won't erode under the high stress and tempsmokeless powder's endure them thru. Actually, I wish everyone would buy the 257 wby's and 6.5 mag's and the hot rod 7mm's, job security eh!!! But when one considers the barrel steel, for us it is 416R stainless, you look at tensile strength yes, but your steel has to give a little bit with such high pressures or it will explode at the breech!! I have seen articles on the "new wave" of NATO issued weapons, which is basically a 223 with a 20mm cannon strapped on top. The 20mm tube is made of titanium, and I give the barrelmaker many kudos for that job from hell. I never want to rifle such a metal, I've tried A2 and that brought me much misery.... But until, and we will, we have a steel or material that will hold up to the stresses that pulling a trigger can do, if it's carbon fiber wrapped or not, we will shooting the throats out into the next century.

my rant is over for now

JR <dink@rapidnet.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 17:11:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.34.8.143)

B. Rogers...
Hey Dude... I'm usually a hard liner on this stuff, but I'm not sure this Smith & Wesson thing is a defeat... in fact, Slick Willy may have shot himself in the "willy".

I'm troubled by the symbolism... but we may be the winners in the end.

Lookie! Two serial numbers is no loss... no sane shooter would be caught with a gun that had removed serial numbers... it's instant felony death, and you never own a firearm again. So who does it hurt?
No body, but the sleez bag drug dealers. Two serial numbers aren't any loss.

Trigger locks... many companies have been shipping them for a while... so nothing new.

The ballistic "fingerprint" is silly tokenism...
Several companies are already supplying "fingerprinted" bullets... I believe Glock and one other... so big deal.

The national forensic association has been trying to develop a system for cataloging rifling since they discovered that rifling was unique.
There is nothing available, and they aren't even close. With real (hand) fingerprints, there are "flags" and "group" items in the swirls that will put a print into a category, so the search is limited to a much smaller group.
Though computers can do some of the rough matching in the future, it will still have to be finished by hand, as there are too many subtle variations.

But rifling has no such flags, or group "ID's", and because it changes, even with a dozen shots, there is no way a computer scanning program can match it, because it is different.
So this sounds great to the media, but it's also a real looser.

Dirty barrels, or barrel wear, or deliberate abrasion, changes the print... a crime bullet from dirty, leaded guy, will not make the match, when it is cleaned after the crime, and changing the barrel on autos, eliminates the issue on most handguns, and most rifles go through the target.

"Matching bullets" was a big deal in the past, but not a major item now, because the bad guys have left their .25 and .32 autos home and bought bigger guns, and the bullets from bigger guns get messed up pretty badly.
Ballistic matches are now just a piece of confirming evidence, and NOT the thing that gets the bad guy busted... and considering that the bad guys use stolen guns, and that there are 600,000,000 firearms in the country... this is another piece of Clinton crap that will make news for a week and then disappear.

Smart Weapons... forget about it! The computer industry has stated that we are at least 30 years away from such technology... the police (across the board) have stated that they have no interest in such weapons, and will not use them, in spite of the fact that 8 out of 10 police that are shot, are shot with their own guns. and of course there are still those 600,000,000 plus "stupid" firearms around!!

But look at the other side.

First - This "Gun control" crap has been one of Willie's major distractions he's drawn on, when he (or "Al Gore, the Bore") has been in trouble.

Second - There have been many very expensive law suits against the gun companies, costing them millions to defend. Think how much that would have added to the price of a new Smith & Wesson!

If all the companies sign on, the gun thing will be over (for awhile).
Willie will have "shot his wad" on the gun thing for this election period... the public has a very short memory, and by next year, this will be forgotten. But Al Gore's dirt will keep coming up.

Also, this issue will get the gun people off their collective ass' just like the '95 Crime bill did, and turned congress around.

So what will Gore run on? Trigger locks "for the kids"? Too late, it's over. They just lost one of their major issues... waisted for nothing, and this new Buddhist Temple thing is just going to get bigger, and bigger. And the NRA has gained over a million new members this last year :)

Remember what happened in '96!

Speakin' of which... 0ne of the biggest Albatrosses around our necks is our own Wayne LaPiere. Though he's right on the facts, his mouth needs a lock with no key. I've watched him embarrass us for more years than I care to count.

Sorry for the length, but sometimes a short term lose is a long term gain, and I think we have got one here.

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 17:23:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.68)

"Fingerprinted Bullets",
I have been told by several local LE's Fiream Training Unit pers and related ballistics people that the Glock's polygonal barrel is downright near impossible to determine exactly which gun fired the bullet, even when they have the gun(s) in question. Anyone else heard similar?
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 17:51:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.144.32)

Well guys, you're ALMOST right. Glock turns in CASINGS from it's pistols (serial numbered of course). Which makes me wonder, because I was told that they send 5 from each pistol. That's a LOT of brass for some poor schmuck (well, at the ATF, I don't care, wish they were all poor schmucks!). My best buddy took college forensics classes (for police forensics) and say that printing bullets now adays is just about useless. Casings is the way they do it. Bullets tear themselves up too much unless they're of a "sub par" (subsonics, etc) calibers.

As for S&W, I can't really get too upset with them. Disappointed is the word. Ruger has been doing this kind of crap for years. Thus the old HK T-shirt emblazoned with a Ruger emblem, but with a chickens head, the slogan "in a world of compromise, some do!" under it. No, these new things S&W are doing won't "hurt" us, except politically. Seems I learned something from our good Dr. Keyes. If one accepts a premise and works on that premise (i.e., if you debate legislation on if it's better to kill children with knives or pistols, you're ADMITTING that it's all right to kill children!). If you debate what kind of gun laws are right, you're implicitly agreeing that the government has a RIGHT to regulate this aspect of your life. This also gives implicit approval to do whatever is necessary to enforce such things, mostly including a regulation of your personal life, and lack of privacy. See IRS. It wouldn't bother me too much, but I know that it's all going to be started again, with NEW and DIFFERENT legislation next year "for the children". BAH!

Sorry for the rant, started by accident.
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 18:36:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.166)

People i know call me imm ortal sniper.
Dave Jordan <snowboarderguy_2000@yahoo.com>
Bel Air, Maryland, USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 20:22:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.25.172.115)

People I know, call you "Twinky" (Oh God... another True Pro!)

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 21:17:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.85)

Dave Jordan,
How many times did it take getting run over by trains, falling off buildings and such did it take for your friends to decide you were immortal. Or is it immoral. Did I hear a sheep in the distance?
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 21:21:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.111)

Pablito,
Beat to the punch again. I hate when that happens.
If I can't have a qwiker wit I better stick to shootin' 50's.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 21:24:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.111)

Hey Tony...
Lighten up on that "sheep" talk... a lot of us represent that remark ;), and the sheep around here are real fussy!

'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 21:25:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.85)

"Twinky"... *snicker*

I vote that Marius (or whoever) just nukes these flame-bait posts as soon as they see them. Although I was tempted to drop some verbal napalm before I caught myself.

Now to an on-topic post:

I just got one of the Undude's slings and thought I would let eveyone know about Mike's customer service. When I ordered the sling I sent Mike an email saying that I was giving in, I was sick and tired of hearing people say how great his slings were - even when I hadn't asked them in the first place! I phrased it in a humorous way and sent off the email, and soon got a reply from Mike saying that it had made his day and so he was going to send me one of his shooting support bags for free. Hey, that's pretty cool and by the way that bag works great.

My sling arrived a few weeks later. I had printed the instructions from Mike's website (a good idea since the sling didn't come with the instructions) but I was having a heck of a time trying to figure it out. How complicated could a %&$@ sling be? It got to the point where I was wondering if the Hoppes had finally killed off one too many brain cells and maybe needing to be spoon-fed was just one step away... when I finally came to the conclusion that Mike had shipped me a "Military Model One" sling instead of the "Military Model Two" that I had ordered, and that there was no way I would ever get this one to work on my TBA M40A1 with its fixed swivels.

Mike and I exchanged a few emails as I explained the problem, and when he realized his mistake he asked me for my address again so he could ship out a replacement ASAP. I sent that, and asked him whether I should keep the cuff I already had or should I ship it back when I returned the first sling to him. To my surprise, Mike told me to keep the sling and not send it back as it was his mistake! I basically asked him if he was nuts at this point, was he sure I couldn't send it back but he insisted and I wasn't about to argue this to the death. :)

In the end, I got the sling I ordered about a week after the first one showed up, and after paying for one sling and cuff I ended up holding two slings, one cuff and a support bag. Mike made a simple human mistake and promptly made up for it in spades. Will I be ordering from Mike again? Oh, you betcha. And I'll be showing off the slings to friends who will also be hearing about the great above-and-beyond customer service I got.

So here's my public thanks to the Undude for some very Un-typical customer service.

(And by the way the slings look great, I can't wait to try 'em out.)

Sorry for the wordy post!
Dave <dave@NotATwelveYearOldImm_OrtalSniper.com>
Nice day wish I was at the range in San Jose, CA, USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 21:41:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.156.152.47)

Sorry for the rant, started by accident.
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Saturday, March 18, 2000 at 21:54:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.230)

Sorry for the double post, guess that's what happens when you mix computers and call waiting. Humbly-
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 01:15:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.243)

Dave, thanks for the nice words, but you will have all the Sharks tring to get free stuff from me. LOL
Seriously, it was my mistake and you should not be bothered further when you did not make the mistake. Probably the reason I am not making any money at this.

Pete, did you ever submit the Carlos Match Article to Tactical Shooter Magazine. If not do so.

Undude/Mike
MikeM <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 01:34:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.28)

Clarifications on SARP etc.
John - I figured I'd send it here to

OK - I had thought you were wondering why we didn't adopt it.
I would love a FNC for personal ownership. There are a couple kicking
around up here (Canada) but few want to part because they are now a
restricted/prohibited gun up here (had to be an owner of that class prior to 94 and no new guns can come in) I think the FNC is a good firearm, but it has several drawback for military operations - weight, reliability (when dirty) and cost, pretty much what I think of the H&K stuff too - I love it but not for combat. I'd love to sit
on the range and leisurely conduct my own tests of accuracy and mean time between failure, however that costs time and money - something I have little of these days!
(my recently EX wife is getting all of that)but I'm not whinning
Thanks
Kevin

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Bitter and Twisted in, Canada - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 01:57:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.136.162)

I have wanted a origional wwII sprinfield for a long time. IF any one has any information on the purchas of one. Or if any one has one better yet
blake <teljkon@netzero.com>
lantan, fl, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 04:11:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.208.92.215)

Yeah Mike, sorry 'bout that now you'll have guys calling up and saying "I want to order ten Military Model mumble mumble slings please." LOL! :)
Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
San Jose, CA, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 04:27:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.156.152.47)

Accuracy International Rail System for Rem 700.
Has anybody used one and with what results. If so did you (dare I say it) bed it?
Aussie <gartonx@hotmail.com>
USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 05:18:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 202.147.2.241)

I picked up a Winchester M70 BlackShadow in 300WM a while back. One of those help somone when they need cash kind of deals... I don't know what to do with it. It has the push feed action not the pre 64 type, I hear that this is useable or even better than the Rem. 700 action. The M70 action does not seem as stiff as the 700 but it is smooth. My thought is to re-barrel and put a better stock on it. Looking for thoughts from the crowd... I've never worked with the M70 action. I don't really like 300WM for cal. any sugestions there would be good also... 300 RUM?
Steve <reptech@televar.com>
Republic, WA, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 06:04:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.8.144.161)

Lito, the teflon molly took really well to the barrel and the cast stainless lower. Both had bead blasted finishes or the equivalent.

The magazines I did were a test of how well the spray will adhere to different surfaces, the magazines need to be bead blasted or sand blasted before applying the spray if you intend for it to pretty much stay on there permanently. The finish will slowly wear or chip away from repeated use. When I do another firearm someday I'll bead blast the whole lot and do it the right way now that I know. What I didn't know at the time was that a bead blasting gun only costs about 30 bucks at one of the Frieght stores around here, DOH, next time...

I did the scope mount and scope caps, both appear to have taken well to the spray. I also did the trigger, pivot/takedown pins, selector, and bolt catch, finish took well to those little parts.

Tryed doing the aluminum upper and the left side was significantly more smooth from forging than the ejection port side. I believe the finish will stick well to the ejection port side while the other side is eventually going to loose the finish. From the magazines and the upper I would be prepared to sand blast or bead blast aluminum parts since they are so hard and smooth, sanding with sand paper doesn't seem to pit the surface nearly enough.

I wish I had a Sendero or some other Remington so that I could try doing a barrel like that to test the finish.

I almost drifted the sights off the HK USP and did the slide in OD Green but I was hesitant to do it because I thought the finish might be too smooth to take a good finish. Not to mention I had problems with the can of spray having any staying power.

That being said the cans of teflon molly spray don't seem to last past the first day of use, something effects the can and it doesn't spray the same as when the can is new. I was able to unclog nozzles when they were spattering but that didn't seem to be the problem. I think the cans are cheap and they lose pressure after the first days use or something. At a certain point a clean nozzle wouldn't even matter, the cans just wouldn't spray for squat.

I might be leaving something out so I'll get back to you if I remember anything.

Well Walker Texas Ranger is on, gotta go.
He is the original Meaty Cheesy Boy!

More meat, more cheese. Meat cheese meat cheese.
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Bakersfield, Ca., USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 06:27:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.165.1.38)

Oh yeah, 24 bucks a can is a little outta hand I think
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
SheepTown, Cal., USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 08:46:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.165.1.38)

To Big Sniper and Big Sniper 2,
I spent two years in the Corps,and believe me the decision you are both making is the wrong one. The problems with you damn kids today is you have no idea what death is. When you're dead thats it shows over.
Your eyes must be painted on, watch the news instead of Barney or the tellie tubbies. So far school shooting are on the rise,would you want to do that to your classmates or have someone else do that to you and your friends??? I don'nt think so, so get your heads out of your asses and get back to reality.
Greg "GT" Morrow <GTM@svol.com>
Sharpsville, PA, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 14:38:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.8.183.173)

Anyone on the Roster live close to or stationed at Ft. Bragg? When I was in the 82nd there was a print that floated around of a HALO jumper with a claymore strapped to his head, diving at a MIG, with the clacker in his hand. If any one can find 1, I will pay dearly to have one again.
The guy that did the prints was a SF guy, I think.
Gotta go.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 14:58:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.13)

Hello All.

I've enjoyed reading the roster for a while now, and have consumed all of the Hot Tips -great stuff. Thanks. The atmosphere reminds me of the old NRA Guntalk BBS...

Anyway, I'm looking for sugestions/experienced opinions. I have a new little project gun; 20" Savage 10fp in .308 and am just putting it together and wondering about a few things. #1 on the list is "has anyone had trouble with the OAL of 168gMK's?? I'm trying to check the length to the rifling (with a cut cases + bullets) and after getting mixed results found that the first three bullets out of the box were 1.204", 1.211" and 1.207". Is this strange? Seems strange to me when I'm hoping to measure the set-back from the rifling in thousandths...

Any general thoughts on vari-x ll v. lll's. I'm looking at 3-9x 40mm and 3.5-10 40mm. The price jump to mildots is part of the issue.

Thanks for letting me pick your brains.

Chris

Chris <cmw@tiac.net>
USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 15:27:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.32.79.119)

B. Douglas,
when applying any sort of aftermarket finish, sand blast the parts.
If you bead blast and intend on parkerizing or use some sort of PTFE finish, the glass bead kind of clogs the pores of the metal. For best results use 120 grit sand, it will give a much smoother finish. Keep your air pressure at about 50-60 psi. That is probably why your finish on the aluminum parts didn't turn out quit the way you wanted.
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 15:39:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.13)

Gun finishing,

I am concidering refinishing my rifle with a stuff called
Bad Karma <jwhiteii56@hotmail.com>
USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 16:57:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.77.71.90)

Gun finishing,

I am concidering refinishing my rifle with a stuff called "Aluma-Hyde" from Brownells. My question is this, do I have to do any special preperation to the metal other than degreasing it to achieve a good finish? I plan to do the whole thing lock, stock, and barrel. I will probably do thee scope too with the scope covers on it. Any ideas or suggestions? I saw a post refering to sand blasting. Hmmmmm sounds complicated.

Semper Fi!

Bad Karma
Bad Karma <jwhiteii56@hotmail.com>
USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 16:58:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.77.71.90)

Karma: From the name on it, I'm assuming you're working with aluminium. If that's the case, your stuff is probably some anodizing compound. There are only 2 rules for anodizing aluminum. The surface has to be prepped well (usually that's a chemical prep, but I suppose there isn't a reason you couldn't blast it, haven't tried that one though) and then anodize it QUICK! Aluminium oxidizes "rusts" REALLY quick, like a few minutes it will be completely covered with a thick oxide layer. The anodizing solution just "rusts" it with a better coat. JUST LIKE conventional bluing, but more durable, deeper, etc. If you have the "hard coat" kind, just get the temp right! More doesn't mean better. And if it's not aluminium, listen to someone else, 'cause I wouldn't know what I'm talking about with steel :-)
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 17:23:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.145)

Lito' your logic is sound and I'm sure the facts are straight.
I just hate to see the Manufacturers join the dance you know!
Kind of like the cigarette people when they first put on the warning.
You know the bastards will be back.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 18:08:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

B. Rogers...

Yeah, I know what you mean... every time I see the S&W thing on the TV, I greach for the clicker... but I think we're gaining ground in an area we've never had before. Saw Wayne this morning on one of the Sunday news shows, and they actually treated him well, and though he didn't appoligize for what he said, he did get in a lot of good shots against the Klinton administration, and brought up the fact that the "H-Rap Brown" issue where a cop was killed, and another was wounded last week... well Wayne brought out the fact that the feds had "H-Rap" on a fed gun charge a few years ago, and gave him a pass, and the Feds now have that officers blood on their hands... the interviewer actually gave Wayne some respect, and when the Klinton spoksman came on after, she tore into him, and his "Spin"... he refused to answer any question directly, and would go to some symbolic issue, or mumble something about the aniversary of Columbine... she tore into him, and he ws lame.
This is the first time in 35 years of gun control, that I;ve heard a "lefty" news woman, listen to our side of the gun issue, and sock it to the anti's.

Who knows... maybe there is an Easter bunny!

Pablito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 18:25:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.41)

All - not to post an AD - but read on...
I have created a new list where vendors, members, etc. can post announcements regarding classes, equipment, special items, events, etc. that would be of interest to the Tactical shooting community. I know there are alot of lists where discussion is the only allowable mode. To join this list:

1. Send an email to majordomo@aspire.net with the following in the message body:

subscribe tactical-announce your-email-address

2. You'll get a confirmation request - just follow the directions and you're in!

3. After that - you'll get a welcome aboard message...
4. That list is setup so that subscriber's email addresses can't be fetched.
Enjoy!

Ken
Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, VA, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 18:57:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

I see the main page has changed. I can't seem to find my way to the Emporium anymore... somebody please pop smoke.
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
xx, mi, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 19:04:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.137.37)

For sale: Just click on the EMPORIUM in the main page.... will take you to the forsale list.

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 19:07:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Refinishing: I saw the posts regarding refinishing and could not help but comment since I do a lot of major refinishing of smgs, etc. weekly because I enjoy it, not that I make money at it, as it is more of a hobby for me.

I work at John Norrell Arms, Inc.

To adhere to the metal, our product is best applied to a sand or bead blasted surface, which slightly roughens it. But it will also adhere without doing so. I did a Sig 550 for a collector who insisted that I do not follow my normal procedure of blasting, and the rifle turned out fine.

But for best adhesion, normally, with our product at least, it's best to blast the surface. There are exceptions.

This weekend, I did a predealer sample uzi smg with the baked on enamel finish. The dealer's personal gun was impeccable. He did not want me to remove the enamel, which would have taken a huge amount of time anyway. I sprayed over it, and it turned out fine.

So generally, you can get by without sandblasting, at least with our product. If anyone wants a brochure, we can email you one.

email request to smg1022@aol.com

We sell our moly resin to Camp Perry for m16 refnishing, to Knights' which has the Seal SOCOM project, to dealers around the country and individuals, and while I have only been doing this 2 1/2 years, I keep learning and improving.

Robert
tschiemer <smg1022@aol.com>
Little Rock, AR, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 19:40:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.164)

Jim from St. Paul
I talked to you this morning at the MWCA show about M1A's. You showed me a catalog that had some tools about disassembling and cleaning the gas tube. Guess what? I forgot the name. Another senior moment. If by chance you read this posting let me know. Hopefully I will attend the clinic that you mentioned. Thanks
John
John <jhugdahl@pressenter.com>
Hudson, WI, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 21:15:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.100.170.71)

Does anyone have any knowledge or comment about progressive or "gain" twist. I checked "hot shots" and did not come up with anything. I am new to this and without checking all of the archives, I do not know if this has been dicussed. Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks, Peter
Pete <FNHIPOWER@aol.com>
Flagstaff, AZ, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 21:18:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 171.222.20.130)

Cool changes to the main page!! I like it.

123
confederate123 <confederate123@yahoo.com>
Possumtown, Mississippi, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 21:22:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.131.5.21)

Pete,
I have seen 1 gain twist barreled rifle. Rem 700 .308, couldn't tell a bit of difference in the way it shot compared to my PSS.
Bradley's have a chem etched gain twist for the 25mm gun.But I don't think that is what you need? Maybe you do.
I only had one example to compare by. Anyone else?
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 21:38:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.48)

Pete...
Gain twists are popular with blacl powder rifles, to ease the bullet into spinning, without stripping the lead surface. Hasn't had any acceptance with jacketed bullets. On very large guns that use driving bands, it is also used, becaus the driving bands strip very easly when engaging the first fer inches of the barrel's throat.

Robert...

On finishing... The folks at Brownells said that they recomended sand blasting so their teflon would be "inside" the surface on the metal... like on slide rails, so even when it wore off the surface, there would still be a 60-70% teflon surface. They said that it could be applied to a smooth surface (like a standard finished rifle barrel) without blasting, and it would stick just fine. I'm going to do 3 Winchester M70/HBV stainless's and they have sand blasted barrels... so no question there...

But my major project is, I'm putting together an M24 on a stainless 40-XB/R, and the action is blasted, but the barrel is smooth... and I want to Teflon the whole thing, and sand blasting services around here are poor.
What are your thoughts... I'd hate to ruin it... waited 9 months for it.

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, March 19, 2000 at 23:06:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.92)

There some barrels that are left-hand twist usually pistol barrels.

The reason rifle barrels are usually right hand is that most of the barrels made in America are made on pratt & Whitney rifling machines these machines are geared for right hand.

Plus we are a right hand world, most of the population are right hand and we think in these terms.

Have you ever seen a machine Lathe with the chuck on the right side???

We think the way our fathers think especially when it comes to machines. The ones we are trained on work a cretin way, we get used to it and that is that.

As for the twist of the barrel, a Remingtom barrel is torqued on with 95-110 ft-lbs of torque. If you have ever taken a Rem barrel off a rifle you would know that the bullet will not loosen it.

Lastly think of this, the bullet in not moving very fast and doesn't have very much inertia in the first .030", the velocity is negligible, if it wasn't barrels would only be 3" long (barring legal issues)
Martin <badger@aol.com>
USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 02:12:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.38)

Anybody have experience with the Winchester 70 Stealth? Out of the box accuracy, capabilities, limitations etc.?

Thanks in advance for the comments.

BEAR
Bear <cw1890@yahoo.com>
USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 04:16:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.10.139.244)

Pete
There are many benifits to gain twist barrels in high power rifle.
I know this because I am a proud owner of several, all of mine are absolutly straight at the breech to an exit of either 8 (.223) or 10 (.308). Both rifle shoot extremely well, under .200 inchs at 100 yards. They don't copper foul and they don't strip the jackets.
Now the really cool thing about these radical gain barrels is the pressure curve (which is what limits your hand loading),in a standard barrel you can only reload to the max listed for your caliber.I have loaded as much as 5 grains more,(29 grains of 4895 in my .223 with an 80 grain berger) and guess what no over pressure. So what a gain barrel does is change the pressure curve from being right at the chamber (for standard barrels) to aprox. 12 to 15 inches down the barrell, which allows you to get a standard rifle cartrige to shoot faster in a gain twist than in a standard twist barrel.If you have further guestion e-mail me.
http://www.benppr@aol.com

Ben Piper <http://www.benppr@aol.com>
USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 04:36:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.213)

Sir, hello my name is Alex Beim and I have always been interested in the millitary life especially sniping in the millitary. Ever scince i took half of my paintball team out which was only two people because I live in a small town I shot them while in a windbreak and for each of them a nice welt for the only two shots i fired. From there I have always admired the people that do that business being only 14 and living in rural Kansas you can suspect for me never to see or hear of it so I read on the internet and Iam reading a book called DEAD CENTER,grat book, and the thing I love the most are the shows but damnit there are never Sniping shows on. But when I go to college I wish to go to ROTC for Kansas State University fort Riley and the question you were probably ready for me to get to is is there a sniping program for ROTC soldiers? Please help me on that question if you could and e-mail me at ambush03@hotmail.com if you could. thank you for your time and if you could send me some more info on my e-mail if you could sir i love to get all the info I can on this subjet thank you for your time and thank you for reading!

P.S- the man does not pick the job the job picks the man.

Sincerly-
Beim
Mr. Beim <ambush03@hotmail.com>
phillipsburg, KS, USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 05:16:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.225.1.205)

Alumahyde and AlumahydeII are both laquers and take a bit of time to cure(up to a week), if it's colors are anything like the Brownells Teflon Molly, the OD Green and the Earth Brown are very close colors and don't contrast much. I'm going to get a few cans of the AlumahydeII to see what I can do with it on refinishing stocks. It's designed for all metals and plastics from what Brownells says. If the colors are enough to satisfy me then I'll try doing the rest of the gun. If they aren't the colors I'm looking for then I'm gonna try one of the many other finishes out there from the other companies. There are a couple out there that is for sure.

Lito, I don't know what to suggest on that barrel you mentioned. Maybe if you took some lead foil(stuff on wine bottles) and wrapped the threaded end of the barrel and plugged the muzzle end of the barrel? Should protect enough for you do bead blast the surface of the barrel and not touch the delicate areas. What's strange about the teflon spray is it took perfectly to everything but only one area of the gun I did. I can clearly tell that the bead blasted barrel and the rough texture of the stainless lower will hold the finish longer.

I can tell you what I will do for future projects, I'm getting a dang blasting gun since I already have the compressor and hoses. Wish I had it for this job. When I get the sprayer lookout!

Go ahead, make my day, PUNK.

P.S, got some good shooting in today on the local squirrel town. Managed some very spectacular direct hits in their "crap factories". It was a real buzard buffet!

B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Baketown, Ca, USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 06:56:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.165.1.224)

the question was:
What is the service life of an HK G-3 barrel (standard "grunt" issue)?
...........................................
It would be a wild guess, we have G-3´s that are made in the 60´s with
refurbishing stampings up to the 90´s.

We never kept a round count on the rifles, they were checked once a year
with several special gauges of which one measeured the throat erosion and
another the muzzle dia.

others were for headspace, firing pin protrusion etc.

we would write one off if it went over the given specs and it was then send
through s 4 channels to get it repaired.

I have never seen one and the same come back to us. But we did always have
some open slots in the arms room with red tags on them showing that rifles
were in for repair.

In my unit we had two G 3 each, one was zeroed, cleaned and wrapped up in
a vacuum sealed bag for the day X, the other was our peacetime rifle.

The G- 3´s now still in service have the black plastic pistol grips and a
brass deflector behind the ejection port like a M 16.

I know that HK exchanges barrels with a hydraulik press.
and I have seen rifles with pretty new barrels in old 60´s receivers wich
were upgraded with the new pistol grips and tig welded deflectors.

They dont throw stuff out if it still works.

The worst guns around are always the set that is used for the basic training
companies. We have switched from a standard boot camp unit to the system of
basic training our conscripts in the unit they will be in for the entire 10
month of service. That way you can shape and bend them into the positions
needed and can sort out the knuckleheads right from the start.

But back to the initial question, I cant tell you, we shoot them till they
dont meet the spec anymore and they go in for refurbish. no round count
here.

However I am sure that there are detailed informations about that. I still
think we get more barrel wear from cleaning them than from shooting them !
: )

torsten <7.62@lasercon.de>
G3ermany - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 07:18:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.159.89.248)

I noticed on the Tasco SS10x42 scope the specs for the reticle
at 100yds center to center of mildots they claim to be 6.6"
Correct me if I'm wrong the standard mildot reticle at 100yds center to center of mildots is 3.6"
Can anyone confirm if the Tasco is a true mildot reticle
I do not have the scope so I cannot verify this for myself at 100yds
using 3.6" bands
Tasco claims it to be a mildot reticle but I'm not sure that it is with the data I've gathered. Are the Tasco specs a misprint?
Does the SS10x42 have the same reticle as the SS10x42M (mil spacing that is)Thank you
Hondo <Hondo852@tmlp.com>
USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 10:39:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.86.249.20)

I need some info on the .338 Lapua, first does any one produce an economical/ well made bolt action? second, does the new .338 Remington Ultra mag compare with the Lapua? thanks
Jon <M21SWS@aol.com>
Ohio, USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 13:54:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.71)

I'm curious to know the pros and cons of two different scopes. Premier Reticles sells the Leupold Mk4 M1 10x lum mildot for $1097. They also sell the Leupold Mk4 M3 10x lum mildot for $1097. What is the difference between these scopes. Is one better than the other for shooting 200+ meters and out? Comments are appreciated.

-mike
Mike <robertsmj@missouri.edu>
USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 16:22:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 128.206.93.3)

Gentlemen,

I shoot an HS Precision stainless Rem. 700 in .300 Win.Mag. (w/ a Burris Fullfield 6-18 scope - fine plex - soon to be a Burris 6-24 Black Diamond w/ mil dot)
Anyhow, I find that Hogdon's H4831SC Extreme is the most consistent -velocity wise - that I've ever tried, including 4895 IMR and ESPECIALLY VihtaVuori N560 which can very quickly get dangerous pressures (flat primers) approaching max loads. Only go up by 0.5 gr. at a time when using VV N560. I'm using Win. brass, Federal mag. primers, & Sierra 220 gr. Matchking, or Lapua 194.5 gr. Match bullets.
Sierra likes this Hogdon load w/ that 220 Matchking bullet. I like the bullet because 1. my barrel likes it and 2. it's great in cross winds, which I'm NOT great at doping. (Seems my Bushnell Yardage Pro 1000 just doesn't have a "windspeed" mode - Darn!)

Does anybody have a favorite .300 Win. Mag. load that they have had success with? I haven't tried Sierra 168 gr. Matchkings yet for some reason. I do have some and I know they will shoot flatter. Maybe...

Lastly, I'm thinking of purchasing NECO's "Quick Load" ballistics software ($150.00) because I can make my own trajectory/wind drift charts, etc., etc. As opposed to constantly buying updated reloading manuals and buying Ballisticard Systems' come up cards. NECO has good stuff. Ive used their barrel lapping kit ("fire lapping") on my Browning Stainless Stalker w/ BOSS System to good effect. Has anyone used the "Quick Load" software?

Eric Blumensaadt <ericblumensaadt@aol.com>
USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 17:43:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.27)

Hi all,

Quick question. I've seen alot of negative feed back on the M14 Mag conversion for Remingtion 700 rifles. Is there anyone out there who has had a positive experience or is it just a waste of time? Who would be a good gunsmith to do the job? The idea of using detachable mags with a great rifle like the '700 seems to make to much sense to abandon without further consideration.

Shane
Shane <ihuntdux@hotmail.com>
helena, MT, USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 18:01:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.178.216.239)

Shane...

The M14 mag conversions are pretty "Cluggie". My 'smith does one of the better conversions in the country, and I've seen them in the factory stock, and also after market stocks... but the action has to be modified, and the mags have to be modified... so you can't pick up a few spares at the gun show.

Look into the H-S stock with their 10 shot mag... it's supposed to be very good.
If you're still hot for a M700/M14 rig, call Moe Defino at Master Competition Sports, in Danbury, CT - 203-775-6820... and they'll give you the info and price... tell Moe that Paul Coburn sent you.

'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 18:19:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.12)

HA!

Just read the info on moly on this site. Ithought the guy at Sinclair was a bit paranoid about moly when I ordered as box of Berger .30 cal. 210 gr. VLD bullets W/ moly coating. Then I talked to Neal Jones (maker of precision reloading dies, etc.-(814)-763-2769 )who is just down the road at Sagertown, PA & he said the same thing BUT he said he liked DANZAC because it didn't build up. No comment re. bore erosion, maybe he hasn't bore scoped hes rifle yet.
What the hell, I've got the Bergers and I'll shoot them but use a lot of JB Bore Paste when cleaning after every 30 rounds. If they do the trick I'll try 'em W/O the moly & see what happens.

Later, Eric B.
Eric Blumensaadt <ericblumensaadt@aol.com>
USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 19:02:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.54)

*Ghillie suit stuff*

Time to build the ghillie. Taking a poll here. Coveralls, 2 piece BDU's or just a veil type deal? Will order stuff this weekend.

Last year posted about a young man in Fayettenam that built most excellent ghillie bases and full suits. Did anyone try him out?

*Reloading die stuff*

Time to buy the dies. Still leaning towards The Redding Deluxe 3 die set. Speak now, forever hold it. Ordering this weekend also.

*To bipod or not to bipod*

Getting down to serious practice starting next week. Do I continue to use the pods or practice without them?

*300 mag stuff*

Is there a reason that the Fed GM Match is based on the 190 grain? What problems would be faced using a 168 or 175?

The Bolt is back from self imposed "trigger lock" exile and now retreats to see if still has any buds left :)

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 22:34:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.43.95)

Christ on a crutch !! What a bunch of "sheep"(read,followers)...OK, ONE MORE TIME...Moly isn't for everyone, Moly DOES NOT prevent corrosion. Moly IS probably one of the slickest materials since Goose@#&% on a dewy golf fairway !! Since I have no intentions of boring everyone, I would suggest you check out Jim Owens' USMC (Ret) site and Dan Hackett's site . OK, and the argument has been here before about "cold bore zeroes"... I have no problem with my CBZ @ 200 yds... 1st time , ALL the time. Of course I'm no "authority, s expert, LE officer, or assigned shooter" just a shooter who doesn't mind making/taking the time to squeeze out that little bit more in accuracy and also making the piece easier to clean later.
What i have seen is Too Much cleaning and not enough MOLY in the bore. Yes, you read right... not enough moly. Unlike other stuff, like copper and fouling..if you have too much moly, it just blows out the muzzle !! Whoops !! I said I wouldn't bore everyone...

Targets UP !!
Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
USA - Monday, March 20, 2000 at 23:58:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.143.214)

Those sites are :www.jarheadtop.com and www.xtremeaccuracy.com.
Sorry JT, I really do need to copy down your remarks on how to make "goto's" !!
Round OUT ! OUT HERE
Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 00:02:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.143.214)

northern Kalifornia shooters, and specifically the dudes who shoot at the Sac'to Long Range match, if you want to go in on a bulk powder purchase, please email me. IMR 4064 is a LOT cheaper if you buy it a case at a time, as in four 8-lb kegs per case. Figure the price to be about $122 plus shipping and a chunk of the HazMat per single keg, vs. $105 plus shipping, etc. in the case lot. If you want a keg, let me know. Finding this stuff locally is just about impossible, so I will place an order with Jerry's Sport Center, if you guys want to join the fun.
Wills <wdayton@thegrid.net>
Radioactive, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 01:23:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.14.52.225)

Hi,
I am doing a project for school and its called a historical narrative. I need to get information on an interesting time in somebody's life. The information needs to be in detail but not in the form of a story because I must take the details and write my own story. Its sort of like a fictional story based on non-fictional information. I find sniping interesting and thought that some sniper, both military and law enforcement, has a very great story to tell and I would appreciate it if you could send me details so I could complete my assignment. My e-mail is solomons@mindspring.com. Thank you for your time.

Kris Solomon
Kris Solomon <solomons@mindspring.com>
GA, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 01:42:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.86.102.231)

To All,

I've rebarreled my .308 from a 1:12 twist to a 1:10 twist. I've been shooting 46 grs. of VarGet, 168 gr. Beger LTB bullets, and Fed 210M primers. This load shot outstanding in my last barrel with no signs of pressure. Will the new twist rate cause much of a pressure difference in my exisitng ammo.

Thanks
Jeff <harmonj@ttc.com>
McKinney, TX, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 02:03:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.200.29)

If you folks had ever wondered about the Remington police rifles, I just got very positive feedback from my 700PSS in .308. Prone from bipod, 100 yard, cold bore, three shot group, 0.114" center-to-center.

Call me a believer!

I'd upload a scan of the target, but it's against the rules, so I'll e-mail the image on request. The URL below shows an image of the gun, and if I can set it up, I will upload an image of the target to a new page on my site soon.

Darin
SSgt Darin R. Pfaff <dpfaff@cfl.rr.com>
Patrick AFB, FL, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 02:05:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.95.232.246)

How 'bout a Bush/LaPierre ticket??!!??

Martin:

A pratt and whitney rifling machine is not necessarily geared for right hand twists, it is in fact rather simple to change the hand. You need a left hand leader bar, and you flip the clock spring. That is all.

Mike M:

Is there a 338 lapua in the midst?? Do ya wanna push for 28" of barrel before the brake? Or is 29" all ya need? I'll get ya a good'n straight pipe anyway, I'll take good care of ya buddy!!

catch ya later

jr <westernpump@sullybuttes.net>
rapid city, sd, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 02:12:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.34.8.143)

Had my 700 M14 mag conversion done by Robar in AZ. All I use are the 5 rd. mags. Switch from 175g BTHP's to AP real darn qwik. Took a while to get my drops dialed in to make a chart. But well worth it.
The Robar job was top notch. Bought 2 spare Springfield M1A, all i had to do was polish the feed lips a little to ease feeding, and it was good to go.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 02:24:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.201)

Eric, Re $150 reloading software.
I have never used the software you mentioned, but in my humble opinion, anyone who would spend that kind of money on a software program would also enjoy flushing money down the toilet! There is too much free stuff out there that will do the tasks you describe. PBC is one of them. You can find the download link in the ballistic section on the main page of this website.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 02:26:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.143.42.211)

Re: S&W deal with the Feds-

see this article posted on the www.law.com website:
">http://www.lawnewsnet.com/stories/A19040-2000Mar17.html/.

Utgardaloki <utgardaloki@law.com>
Illinois, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 03:16:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 157.178.1.101)

Lets try this again...

href="http://www.lawnewsnet.com/stories/A19040-2000Mar17.html/
">http://www.lawnewsnet.com/stories/A19040-2000Mar17.html.

Utgardaloki <Utgardaloki@law.com>
Illinois, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 03:24:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 157.178.1.101)

What other cams are availiable for the Leupold LR M3? I have seen references to a M118 cam and a blank cam. Are there others? And how do I go about obtaining one. I wrote to Leupold but haven't received a response yet.

Thanks

Brian Snider <bolt_308@yahoo.com>
OR, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 04:37:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.36.35.69)

Scope Tests: Guys, I have just returned from US Optics, with my two new scopes. Hey if you are going to do it do it right. A 1.8x10x44 with a 35mm tube. A 3x17x58 with a 35mm tube, both with lit reticle and Mildots. Tony Y, you were absolutley right these are better than I thought they could be. I spent a whole day at the plant and saw everything. Except for a few screws and springs they make it all right there. They held nothing back. I was able to use thier equipemnt to test every scope I had. I did this without anyone looking over my shoulder. I wont tell you the results until I am finished with everything. I still have range testing to do on a few scopes.

JR, You are right a 338 Lapua is in the works. Janet says you will have it made in three months. I sent you an email on this but I am looking for 28"s plus the brake for a total of 29.5" Do your usual great job and we need to hook up for beers one day.

Pete, did you submit that article to Tactical Shooter on the Hathcock Match? I never did anything because I thought you had it covered. Your article is great and funny go for it. Rod and Gooch really went all out to make it great, even if that SOB, but Great Guy, Rick was busting everyone.

Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 04:44:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.198.49)

JR, Although you are correct, I will have to agree with Marty on this one. How many left hand leader bars are around for a machine that was made durring WW II? I believe I am correct that all Pratt and Whitney machines were Made and shipped right handed. Anyway rifle barrels can be made left hand twist. And if they were, they would not unscrew when fired.

George <GAP Rifle@aol.com>
Kansas City, Mo, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 05:55:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.198.24)

I am looking to purchase a long distance rifle for long distance shooting competitions. I am going to go with the .308 round, but am thinking of purchasing a Savage Tactical. How do these rifles rate? My brother shoots one, says he likes it. My dad shooting distance competitively, & he said they are ok...I just want to know if this rifle is a wise choice. I do have extensive firearms experience, spent 8 years as a grunt & have both military & civilian technical traning in firearms. I am just basically looking for a wise choice in a rifle. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance
Bill Reed <reedalpiniste@aol.com>
Gardner, MA, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 06:16:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.194.196)

New to this channel/chat style.

I was wondering are there other spotting scopes other than the Leupold you guys would recommend?

Simmons?
Nikon?
Don't want to spend 600+ for somethign not going on a gun.

Tom <tomjung@best.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 06:43:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.172.78.2)

Well guys I just learned of a local competition at one of our local ranges. The competition is going to be a Carbine competition and it's fairly cheap to enter. If I can get some more info on the type of shooting(the guy in charge is hard to get a hold of), formal or action? I would like to join the fun out there once I find out how the shoot will run since I would change my sight setup. I'm actually interested in the 3 gun and the long range tactical shoots that they have planned for later in the year but I'm planning on letting this one get my ears wet. It's my first time in any shooting competition so I need some pointers, it will be hard not knowing what is going on out there. I don't even know a sign in time yet, I called the range it is being held at and I got numbers for a guy involved but no luck getting him yet.

The link should be working to the web site that has a couple pics of my gear. There should be pics of my refinished AR15 on there, both before and after pics. The gun I plan on using is on the bottom of the page, I'll probably remove the Surefire for the competition but leave the rest on the gun. I'll be rezeroing the Reflex sight and a detachable carry handle once I learn the ranges involved in the shoot.

Any help you have or opinions you can offer are welcome both here or by emailing me. No jokes about putting everything but the kitchen sink on them things though. Unless they make me I'm not taking off the Redi Mag. I can haul ass with the carbine the way it is, I just need to find out how I stack up in a organized shoot.
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Bakersfield , Ca, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 07:05:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.165.1.165)

Hello, I've been lurking for a while, reading archives and such.
I am going to purchase a r. 10/22 in the next month or so. I'd like to use it for shooting small varmints and targets around 100 yards.
My dad's 10/22 shoots pretty decent but I am looking to do some customizing so it's more accurate.

Derek Conrad <dsconrad@swbell.net>
manhattan, ks, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 08:52:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.189.101.202)

Derek Conrad <dsconrad@swbell.net>
manhattan, ks, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 08:52:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.189.101.202)

Sorry, I seem to be a moron today... Any tips on what is good/bad to do with a 10/22? Note I will most likely be shooting prone or from the bench. Tattas!
derek conrad <dsconrad@swbell.net>
USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 08:56:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.189.101.202)

Is there a place for the 7mm caliber these days? It seems that the only calibers we talk about are the 6.5mm and the .30. My first hunting rifle was a Model Seven SS in 7mm-08 and I still shoot it today. With a 120grs Barnes-X behind 39 grs of Varget and a Rem 9 1/2 it will produce .8 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards day in and day out letting the barrel cool between shots. Not bad for sporter weight 20
Pierre Pettigrew <pierrepettigrew@icrdl.net>
Rivière-du-Loup, Québec, Canada - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 14:08:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.113.59.57)

.308 Pet loads:

Okay, so it looks like I am going to get to work with my 700PSS ("from Hell") at ranges of 500, 600 and 1000 yards over the next week or so. I am looking for known-good loads for 168 gr. and 175 gr. Matchkings, 168 gr. Combined Technologies and 165 gr. and 180 gr.Nosler Ballistic Tips, and 185 Berger VLDs too, if you have it. Lately I tried 43 gr. of Varget under 175 MKs and 165 BalTips at 100 and the rifle seemed to like those pretty good (3/4 . Maor a bit better) and I am already working with some of the old standards like IMR 4895 under the 168 MKs. Just looking for some other stuff to try. 43 gr. of Varget is a bit light under 175 MKs, right?

Thanks:

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, SC, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 15:07:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.213.119)

George...

Left hand twisted rifled barrels can come unscrewed. The Colt Anaconda, had a left hand twist, and right hand thread into the frame, and they came un screwed from shooting.

It is the same principal as tightening a hard screw with 100 ft pounds of force, then applying 10 ft pounds of opposite force, and tapping the screw with a hammer. Not all will come loose, but it will happen often enough to be a problem... and setting up that situation is bad engineering practice.

If you were an engineer, designing any heavy machinery, and laid out a stressed/impacted screw with a torque that was opposit the thread, you'd probably get your walking papers.

Can you have a left hand twist in a right hand threaded barrel... sure you can, and most won't come out... but some will, if the cartridge is large, and there's no point to do it, as there is no advantage to a left hand twist.

'lito

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 16:10:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.27)

While sitting at work i got my package from TRGT and i could not wait till i got home to play with my new toy.
I just got my mil dot master and have a quick question about it.
It is set up for the USMC football dots but my tasco has round Army dots. Will this cause a conflict and make accuracy difficult?
They are broken down to .5 of a dot, so maybe i dont have anything to worry about.
Any advice?
Jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
san jo, notacloudintheskyifornia, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 17:56:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.247.149.2)

Jeff...
My B&L 10x tac's have round dots, and they are .22 of a mil, and the football dots (and mil-dot master)are .25 , so I have an "error" (if not compenstated for) of 3%... which equals 30 feet at 1000 yds. It's hard to judge a 1/10th of a mil accurately, so I wouldn't worry about 1/33rd of a mil.

If you want... check the size of the dots (they are probably different that the B&L)... by matching dots on a target at 100yds, and then go from there.

'lito.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 18:33:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.27)

Hey Jeff, I'm going to the range (Metcalf) this Friday afternoon and will probably meet up with an acquaintence (who is also into this sort of thing) if you need to do some measurements at 100 yards... And I think that the 200 yards range (omigod, that's long distance for a local range! :) at Metcalf is open on Sunday so I'm going to try to go then as well. Now if only the wind will behave...

Anyone else get their Leica LRFs from SWFA? Still haven't seen mine.

Also, does anyone have any opinions on the VFG cleaning gear (felt cylinders on a special tip) that Brownells has now, other than the fact that the cylinders are expensive? I've tried it out and am really happy with it so far, but I have some concerns about long-term use.

Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
Jeff's right, not a clous in the sky in SJ, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 18:58:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.97.110.69)

"Clous"??? Doh! Make that "clouds" although to be honest I don't see any Klaus's in the sky either, not even a Torsten in the thin wind... :^)
Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
SJ, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 19:01:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.97.110.69)

Dave,

VFG = Vereinigte Filz Werke which translates to United Felt Works is a German Company that makes all sorts of diffrent products out of a high quality felt.

Pete R might be using the VFG Air rifle cleaners which are a treated felt pellets that you just shoot through the barrel after each training session.

Most of the German Anschütz and Feinwerkbau rifles in Germany are cleaned with the VFG system and that for decades.

I have the system in use myself and like the fact that the felt pellets are pretty concentric and keep the rod centered in the bore unlike say the dewey system with the patches. the patches have more surface area, but dont suck up as much bore cleaner.

Also with the VFG tip you can screw the felt pellet on and increase its diameter to a real tight fit and scrub without loosing it like the regular patch.

What is Brownells charging for them ? just curious, I buy mine in big bags of a 1000 each, and since I shoot my rifle more than I clean it they last me for ever. 1 barrel = 1 bag

t
Torsten <7.62@lasercon.de>
Germany - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 19:12:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.159.89.217)

Jeff> On the mildot master the only thing that is setup for football (USMC) mildots is the illustration on the breakdown of the mildots. The formula/scales on the MM is accurate regardless of the style of dots you are using.

Its all learning how to read the mildot reticle. Find out the subtensions on your reticle. If its a Leupold/Premier reticle scope your dots are .22 mils in diameter and 1 mil center to center with posts that are .5 mils wide.

Go to www.tacticalshooter.com and go to the featured articles for January and a stud warrior :-) that writes for them talks all about the mildot master and mildot reticles.

Gooch
Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 19:26:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.140)

Gooch...
The dots on the Premier dots are 1/4 mil.

From Premier's web site...

"PREMIER RETICLES manufactures three different styles of mil-dot reticles. All three are wire reticles. They are not made on glass and will always have dots that are oval shaped. Although dot mass is 3/4 minute of angle, the dot is slightly longer and slightly narrower than 3/4 minute. One advantage of this oval shape is the dot is made to a length of 1/4 mil. A 3/4 minute round dot on glass would be .22 mil. In a tactical environment a wire mil-dot reticle will prevent retro-reflection caused by glass reticles."

MK-4 scopes from Leupold have round dots (on glass) and the dots are .22 mils in diameter...
MK-4 scopes from Premier have football dots (on wire) that are .25 mils long.

M3-LR scopes from either Leupold or Premier, have "football" dots (on wire) that are 1/4 mil long.

'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 20:12:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.68)

Torsten,
Thanks for the info. I saw from the packaging that they were German and figured you might know about them... Like I said, I really like the cylinders, they make much more sense to me and more importantly they work great. Brownells charges $29.50 retail (about $24 wholesale) for 500 of the felt cylinders (.30 cal/7.5mm size), and since 2 are used at a time I seem to be using them up at a rapid rate. How much cheaper are they there? It might be worth paying the shipping if they're much cheaper and I place a large order. I know a guy who may be interested in going in on some.

Bitte!
Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
SJ, CA, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 20:20:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.97.110.69)

Sellier & Belloit .308 match ammo: can anybody help me find this damned stuff? Tried to ask about it at the SHOT show but the S&B booth staff was tied up everytime I walked by. Called Vic at S&B per the article in Tac Shooter and he gave me a number for a place that was (I think) the only distributor of it. Call after call, day or night, I got nothing but a recording. Left messages and they were never returned. Tried again today and now even the answering machine won't answer. Seems like a possible Mom & Pop op. This is a big surprise to me as all the other S&B products are so widely distributed, which is nice because it is good stuff and very reasonably priced. Anybody?
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
xx, MI, USA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 20:57:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.142.57)

Hi all,

For those that do not want to see graphics, and have your browsers set to not display images automatically, you will have noticed that you see the main page as a funny place. Thanks to an email I have noticed that. And now I understand why some hate it :-(

I have temporarily changed the colours on the page so that everything is at least readable, but I am working on getting it to display properly.

Do yourself a favour, set your browser to download graphics, and then look at the main page. Then thank me and leave it like that! :-)

We will sort out the problem, but now I first need some beauty sleep - 00H20 now, and I get up at 05H30

Marius
Marius Ferreira <webmaster@snipercountry.com>
RSA - Tuesday, March 21, 2000 at 22:16:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 155.239.198.14)

Need Info.
I am looking into buying a used U.S. Optics 10x scope, it is similar to the Armalite ST96 10x. Can anyone give me an approximate value and year of this scope.
Thanks Guys
T.Scott <scottmt@fort-frances.lakeheadu.ca>
USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 01:26:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.211.85.43)

George:
To put a spin (left hand of course!) on what Patron 'Lito said, I'll let you in on a little experiment I did. Now, let me state first hand (admission time) that I'm a bit of a science geek. I was looking for the "ideal" powder speed for the 44 special, in my 4" barrel. You know the one, max velocities without pressure signs. Here's a little trivia, you can actually load more unique in a 44 spl than can possibly burn in a 4" tube. Just flashes more, with same basic velocity, even at 3 times book max. Back to subject. I found a powder that would literally torque my hand off to the side with each shot. Was I in 44 mag range? MOST DEFINATELY!, but it's a 5 shooter, and I was using 44 spl brass for case capacity, not pistol strength. I've never shot a rifle (and I've handled up to a 460 mag) that would torque me. Hit hard, yeah, actually try to twist the rifle out of my hand, no. I have no idea why this is, probably due to small mass of pistols in relation to rifles. Anyway, you can torque (EXACTLY like an impact wrench) a barrel out of the frame if you hammer it with heavy loads, or possibly a lot of full strenght loads. Unless it's a mouse gun :-)
Anyone interested in the "magic powder" for a 5" 9mm luger with 115's?
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 01:27:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.254)

US Optics Scopes, what model is it. Tell me all the info you have so I can help. They make a version that is similar to the Armalite but far better. They made the Armalite Scope for Armalite but that scope is not on par with the other scopes US Optics makes. The similat version to the ST96 is about 900.00 at the low end. Mike
MikeMilller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 01:31:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.212)

Bravo ...

I'll bite... what's your magic powder for the 9mm... I've used AA7 with good results.

'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 01:35:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.101)

Mr Coburn,

You're right the Premier reticle uses football dots are .25 mils tall and they are stamped wire vs etched glass. Round dots are .22 mils.

I am unworthy in your presence.
gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 03:01:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.168)

Off topic:

Tony Yackowski: - Tony - your email is no good...

----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mail2.siteamerica.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
550 ayackowski@preshing.com... User unknown
Reporting-MTA: dns; thyme.aspire.net
Arrival-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:58:56 -0500 (EST)

Whasup dude? Get hold of your Email administrator...

Ken :)

Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 03:12:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Hey Bolt,
You live in NC, don't you? I'm supposed to hook up with AL O at the groundhog shoot in Hickory. You gonna make it? APR 1. Give a yell if so.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 03:14:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.25.254.169)

Bravo, if the right answer to:

"Anyone interested in the "magic powder" for a 5" 9mm luger with 115's?"

isn't Vihta Vuori 3 N 37, I'll eat my hattu.

The Finns know a thing or two about gunpowder, eh?
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
XX, MI, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 04:27:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.136.114)

If you never follow another URL I send follow this one! A few weeks ago Steve put this same URL out for anyone interested in building a Bore Cleaner similar to Outers Foul-Out. This thing will cost you WAY under $10.00 to build and DOES IT CLEAN!!! UNFREAKING BELIEVEABLE!!!

http://www.paradise-web.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=reloadersshack&id=6893.37523616618814#THREAD

You have to try this!!!

Sarge

Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 04:30:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.245.243.125)

For all of those interested as to where peteY G, might be, he is building a new home for his blushing bride and himself. Some time you've just got to trade in that old keyboard for a hammer in your hand. Keep Nailing thoses studs - you stud and finish up that home. Good Luck peteR. Tell your better half I said HI also.!!!!!

al o.
AL Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
My Town, Ohio, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 11:32:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.144.4.46)

Excellent site.

I'm ex-mil, amateur, former designated shooter but not AMU or otherwise formally trained. Shot competitively through college (USMA 75, got sidetracked into pistols and skydiving!). Infantry and Cavalry assignments. Had Battalion's two (2!) M21 rifles w/ ART during Desert Storm, and got the bug again. Been a long time since.

Currently shoot .308 Savage 110 Tactical in Choate-Plaster stock, Tasco SS 10x42. Active shooter w/ local LE shooters near Augusta GA. Many from Savannah River Site SRT, other LLEA. Former Security Manager at commercial nuclear power plant; sent 5 precision shooters off for training.

Precision shooting for discipline, and fellowship w/ like-minded and interested folks. Will lurk and learn.

Thanks for a great site.
E.M. (Ted) Dannemiller II <emdannemillerii@mindspring.com>
Evans, GA, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 13:09:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 165.247.253.64)

Torsten,

You're correct, lotsa experience with VFG felts, they really wipe the crap out. Something really evil to watch is all that black green smegma just ooozing out of a shotgun, or rifle muzzle with a VFG.
The only problem is PRICE! Beeman AG lists the .177 pellets for over $5.50 per 100. so I use a 7/8" hole punch and old tee shirts for AG cleaning.
Brownells retail lists the VFG's in .30 cal/7.5mm @ $29.50 per 500 + $3.69 for the rod adapter. Not a bad price for the return in cleaning power.

You kids keep behaving, especially YOU 'Lito!.

Chao!

pete(the 12 penny Nailer)R <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 14:39:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.42)

Does any body have a mod. 1935 FN 98 mauser sniper rifle or knows any thing about one? pictures what kind of scope etc.Iwould appreciate any help. 2gun
2 gun <reese2@geneseo .net>
colona , ill, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 16:00:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.175.23.20)

ok, here it is on the elliptical mil dots in USMC Sniper scopes. they used to be round like the "Army" dots. and ask any Sniper out there and he will tell you round is better every day of the week and twice on sunday. something happened with the contract to get them produced for the 10x Unertl. the newer ones showed up with these "Football" or elliptical dots. it makes it harder to do your range estimation when you break the spacing between the dots into 10ths. not quite as definite a transition from the dot to the line of the reticle. as for the ones out there who claim a mil dot reticle cannot be accurately broken up into 10ths for range est, you need to try harder. this was taught in the 1st Mar Div SS School, and it does make a difference between that and the 1/4 thing. if you can get them, get the round dots. your life at unknown distance will be much easier. i just wonder sometimes with all the hype over Mil Dot Reticles, how many of you guys actually use the formula designed for them and do range estimation? save yourself the money you'll spend on mil dots if you're just target shooting on a range. they have no use there.
Mark W <usmcsgt8541@netzero.net>
Evansville, IN, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 16:04:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 4.54.219.233)

I am currently building a tactical rifle around a 1903-a3 action & have been unable to locate a good synthetic stock or one piece scope mount(other than Redfield or Leupold standard). This is for recreation/interest/hunting only. Scope is Tasco SS10X42, rangefinder is Nikon 800, dies are Redding Comp. neck & seating bipod will be a Parker Hale ripoff(when I can find one). Thanks & any correspondence /advice is welcome & will be considered.
Bill Moore
Goodview, VA
Bill Moore <lmalterna@aol.com>
Goodview, Va, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 16:18:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.216.40.3)

Ahhh good to be on the duty roster again!

I went for a quick scan through the main page, but I am all out of motion sickness bags,that I stole from Lufthansa, so I am glad to be back here again.

I really liked it a lot better the way it was!

I am bracing for impact, Scott lay it on !

t
t <t@lasercon.de>
germany - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 18:28:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 62.156.8.227)

'Lito and Ned: figured there wouldn't be ANYONE caught dead carrying a nine, except me of course :-)
Ned, you get the score, but also a technical foul. In a shorter barrel, I've found 3N37 to be THE trick, but not in a 5 incher. For the 5 incher (or Beretta 4.9), HS-6 is truly the way to go. AA-7 is also great, but a TOUCH on the slow side. Now, I won't bore you with load data, but I'm using Fed brass, Win primers (non-mag), Win 115 gr JHP's (this duplicates the Q whatever load from Win, the police only load, except for mine is more "peppy"). With the bullet taper crimped in the canelure, you can load X.3 grains (where X is an integer greater than 5, where I'm gonna tell you to start) you can get 1380fps in a Beretta, no primer flattening or any other pressure signs. This is the load I use in my Glock 17 (4.5" barrel) and it clocks at 1350, same as a Cor-Bon, and I use these loads at every IDPA shoot I go to (at LEAST 1 per month). If you don't use Win JHP's, check your bearing surface. I've noticed some pressure differences when using my beloved (but expensive) Sierra's. They still do 1350 with ease in a 5 incher, but hitting 1400 isn't wise. And I've used the same brass now more times than I should. Now you know why I don't mind carrying a nine! :-)
From the shooting nerd's corner.......
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 18:51:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)

9mil is King (who'd I upset now) I use AA7 in my 9 loads for the Hornady XTP 115 JHP and the Speer GD JHP (also 115). Using Fed +P+ casings (from my once fired 9PBLE) Fed 100 primers, I can't recall the charge weight by memory (press is still at ex-wife's) but I was over the max (w/o any signs of pressure) and hitting around 1330 fps - Which is good enough for me (I still have a large amount of 9BPLE and 124gr Hydra Shok should I need it).
Anyway I finally broke down and bought a press to do my .308.
Anyone got a pet load for the 175gr MK's that's good to 1000 Open to suggestions.
Thanks
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 19:32:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.136.4)

Hello All,

You may remember a few months ago I asked some questions regarding the Steyr Prohunter. I got as far as ordering one. Literally on the day following my order I found myself on a range. One individual was cussing because his rifle would not group well nor maintain zero when fired from the prone supported position. It turns out that the rifle's forend is designed to have a forward contact point with the barrel -not necessarily a problem - but the Prohunter's stock is not sufficiently rigid for such a design. Thus, any variance in the pressure applied to the forend by hand, rest or bipod produces varying pressure on the barrel. The individual informed me that the first stock that came with his rifle had to be returned because it was bent. With problems continuing he had had a highly respected remember of the UK military sniper community inspect the rifle; this individual pronounced that the design was fundamentally flawed and could never be expected to shoot well.

I fairly well ran to a fax machine to cancel the order!

In its place I bought a Steyr SSG Police (not as much of a price leap in UK as in the US!) and I am extremely pleased with it!

So, to my latest question: High Mounts for the SSG?

I want to mount a 1-inch tubed scope; the scope's objective housing has an outside diameter of 67mm (It's a 50mm P/A). I cannot find a mount to fit the SSG that will do this! Frustrating!!

I've been told that Leupold do a mount capable of this; but their literature does not reflect this (and the UK gun trade seem unable to help-ignorance is bliss!)

Any suggestions please!

Many thanks
Matt
Matt <MT@mtwilks.fsnet.co.uk>
UK - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 19:44:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 195.92.67.45)

Hello, my name is Ned and sometimes I..... I..... sometimes I carry a 9mm. There, I got it out. Bravo, I have some 3 N 37 but have not actually used it for anything. My answer was based on the fact that it was all the rage with IPSC shooters, especially the Euro guys, for making 9mm loads that made "major". Personally I hate reloading 9's, with the tapered case and so much variation in the dozens of different kinds of cases. Surplus 9 is usually so reasonable as to make relaoding 9's unappealing to me. For other than practice and IDPA matches and the like, factory HPs. I will say that the only time I go 9 is when a 1911 won't fit. Here I have a Kahr K9 and an MK9, both customized. Took my Browning to Venezuela for a carry gun there because I thought at the time that a .45 was prohibited (not so).
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
Ninesville, MI, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 20:39:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.145.88)

LOOKING FOR RIFLES CHAMBERED IN THE 338 LUPA MAG
RAY PLOCINIAK <RFP.JR@JUNO.COM>
MOSCOW, PA, USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 21:24:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.17.254.105)

Hello all

I have a friend who has a Winchester 70 in .300 mag. It is a one holer at 100yd with Hornady 180 gr sp "custom" ammo, but opens to 4" at 200 and 6" at 300. Ideas?

Ben
BW <Shotcrete@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 22, 2000 at 22:42:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 15.254.49.3)

Matt in the UK:

Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, the Cofederate flagged capitol city of, South Carolina, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 00:25:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)

To shed more light on the 9mm thread, all users of this cartridge should be aware of the facts. In order for the 9mm to reach it's full potential as a defense round it MUST be hand loaded! It must also be a duplex load consisting of at least .5 grains of Viagra below the main powder charge. Gotcha!!
Frank
Frank <kubikari@goplay.com>
N. Bend, OryGUN, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 00:28:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.214.112.148)

Okay guy's. It's been a WHILE since I've had a lot of time to be able to get on here. I am in need of some advise.

Brass; I need some new brass for my .30-338. I will probably end up just reforming it from either .338 or .300 win mag stuff, but I'd like some opinions on brands. This IS for long range shooting, not just screwin around so I want some stuff that will be pretty workable for match loads. And who's a good source of supply to get them from? I know some of the usuals (OK Weber, Champ Choice, Wideners, LSB) so I'm just wondering if anyone has a line on any other good sources.

Thanks,
Caison
Caison <tjsarchett@webtv.net>
Middle o' nowhere, New Mexico, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 00:34:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.240.200.76)

No update from SWFA on the LRFs, but I did notice that their list of oddball items now lists those big ol' USGI (Steiner) M22 binoculars. Here is the description: "Brand new, never before available (legally) to the public includes the previously classified laser filters, mil-scale range finding reticle, includes case, very rare and desirable." They're charging $799 (ouch) but I figured it might interest some folks, and the price actually seems reasonable considering that they're GI Steiners... The web page is at http://www.samplelist.com/ and then scroll down to the Steiner section.

They also have other refurbished/demo/etc. optics, like this critter: "Tasco 8-40x56 Custom Shop Mil-Dot reticle, matte finish, 30mm tube, side focus parallax, new in box close-out discontinued by tasco..." (Usual disclaimer, I have no connection to SWFA except as a customer blah blah...)

And as long as I'm doing links, a couple of folks contacted me offline about Metcalf range here in San Jose. Details and directions can be found at http://parkhere.org/prkpages/field.htm

Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
San Jose, CA, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 00:46:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.97.110.67)

Matt in the UK:

I have examined a couple of the newer Steyr bolt guns including the ProHunter and noted that they seem to have rather flimsey forends. However, the ones I have seen didnt seem to be bedded with a pressure point but rather seemed to be free-floated. The forend could easily be pressed in with the hand to make contact with the barrel so I imagine that one could not use a shooting sling with it without causing POI problems. My thought was that one could relieve the barrel channel a bit and perhaps add some glas bedding compound near the breech end to stiffen things up a bit. I dont know how well these rifles would respond to this but I suspect pretty well. After my experiences with Remington of late, my next purchase in a bolt gun may well one of the Steyr short tactical guns. Perhaps I will have the pleasure (cough) of having to straighten that one out, too.

As for the SSG, we used to see these (and the older Cycolac-stocked Professionals) come into the store I worked in entirely too frequently with cracked stocks, shatered magazines and broken trigger guards. Now, I dont know if they have updated the plastics used in the SSG line since I last worked on them (about 1990 or so) but they didnt leave all that good an impression on me at the time. Perhaps part of the problem was that the rather wealthy land owners who bought these things tended to treat them as if they were low-rent truck guns, so they saw fairly hard use. Another may be that tmperatures in early deer season here can run well over 100 degrees F (with pickup truck cabs probably pushing 140) so they may have been shot when the stock materials were at their weakest. Dunnow. I certainly wish you the best with yours however. If it makes you feel any better, the best goups I have yet shot with a rifle at 100 yards was 3/8". This was acomplished with a friends SSG PII with a Zeiss 2.5x10 and Federal Match ammo. It shot great and was *easy* to shoot great with.

-Tom
Tom Simpson <bullet@sc.rr.com>
Colatown, the Cofederate flagged capitol city of, South Carolina, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 00:47:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.252.167.152)

What is your opinion of the "10x56 Mil Dot Government Model" available at the Sprinfield Armory? Do you know anything about it? Thanks for your help!
http://www.springfield-armory.com/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=10mildot.html&&cart_id=6785888.28754
Paul <pdjarr@yahoo.com>
Cleveland, Ohio, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 01:43:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 4.54.196.124)

Are the M14 mags made by "Western" any good? How do they compare to those at Springfield Armory, or USGI? Thank you for your help!
Paul <pdjarr@yahoo.com>
Cleveland, Ohio, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 01:48:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 4.54.196.124)

ABOUT TACTICAL INTERVENTION SPECIALISTS and MIKE MILLER. I also had good luck and service from Mike Miller.I received the sling that i needed and also some extra things. I have used several slings on my rifles,mostly military issue and this sling is the best.So if you need a good sling for your rifle give Mike Miller a call.

MIKE DID YOU GET MY PHONE CALL?
SFC PETE CARPENTIER JR <PETEC690@HOTMAIL.COM>
C.C., TX, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 02:10:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.152.175.86)

Kevin: 9mil is King (who'd I upset now): rest assured, just about everyone! AA-7 is a great powder, but it isn't the best for 115's. It's Alliant cousin is THE trick for 124's though. Bluedot (surprisingly at the same charge as the HS-6, but a compressed load to be sure) will drive Rem 124 JHP's at 1320 with EASE. I've had them up to matching the 357 "light mag" load with absolutely no pressure signs. As for your XTP round, I've noticed in my Glock that the XTP is more accurate than the Win. But at double the cost. If I'm shooting the qualifier, I switch to XTP's, 'cause I hate those 20 something yard head shots from behind baracades under time. I think it might be the significantly larger bearing surface. As for brass, and this goes for every caliber I've ever tried, great brass (commercial) is Starline. I sectioned a starline and my previous favorite, Rem +P brass. The starline was thicker, as thick as GI brass, or close to it, but with no work. The only reason I use Fed brass is because I got a smoking deal on 5,000 of them way back when, and they hang in there good. And yes, AA-7 DID give me good velocities, but it wouldn't hit 1400 :-) By the way, kinetic pulled HydraShok, reseated in resized brass with the Bluedot load is WAY cool. Ought to see what it does to wet newspaper!

Ned: three voices: "HELLO NED". I might be out of touch on this one (it's been a while since I shot IPSC) but I think that "major nine" is "outlawed". I know it was years ago. Supposedly a "safety" deal, although, don't go and read what Georg Luger clocked his at (with that blankety blank sand box!) way back then :-) Besides, 3N37 will hit the power floor with room to spare, but you use less of it than the HS-6, and it meters like a dream. As for brass, if you segregate your different manufacturers (I'm not anal enough to say batches) there is no problem. Just look out, some have WAY more capacity than others! As for tapered cases though, they go through my press as easy as the 45's, 357's, 44's, and 40's do.

Frank: my duplex load has 0.5 grains of lead styphenate below the main charge. I call it a primer. I get 50 bangs for the buck, instead of one for $20. And I don't smoke afterwords. Gotcha!!

Don't worry, I know it isn't "9 mil country", I'm shutting up!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 02:42:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.160)

BRIAN. ABOUT THE LEUPOLD 3.5X10 M3LR SCOPE.The scope comes with four dials.One for the 308M which is for 168grn Match ammo.One for the 30-06 ammo.For which bullet or what ammo i am not sure.One for the 300 WIN MAG and this is for a 190 grn bullet and also a dial for 223.This dial is for 55 grn ammo.If you need more information give PREIMER RETICLE a call and talk to one of there techs.They know a lot about these scopes.I have talked to them several times and they are always helpful.
SFC PETE CARPENTIER JR TXNG <PETEC690@HOTMAIL.COM>
C.C, TX, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 02:43:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.152.175.86)

Hey guys, i am atempting to construct a ghillie suit from scrach and could use some advise on matierials and cost so if you could just drop me some hints, thanks.
Ken Curtis <darkeagle@thegrid.net>
paradise, ca, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 03:54:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.162.29.63)

Thanks SFC Carpentier for the LR M3 info. So that 308M cam is in meters, is there a 308Y cam? I was reading through the duty roster archives and the 308Y cam was mentioned a few times. Does it exist? Converting yards to meters is no problem, just trying to clear up what exactly I am buying since I have no way of inspecting the cams in a store. If anyone could pass along the meter markings and the corresponding MOA on the 308M cam, it would be a big help!

Thanks fellas
Brian <bolt_308@yahoo.com>
OR, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 05:51:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.36.35.69)

Matt,

have you considered putting a 20 MOA canted picatinny rail on that slotted
receiver and work with the Leupold Mk 3 Steel rings ? EAW made some for my buddies that have the SAKO TRG and they could whip one out for yours SSG/Police as well.

That should give you enough clearance for your "Observatory" and will also
give you more clicks elevation. Plus you can then adapt everything else out
there to the picatinny rail.

t
Torsten <7.62@lasercon.de>
germany - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 06:57:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.159.89.219)

Lito & Bravo,

This will be my last post on this subject but I must tell you two to look at it this way. Rifle Barrels are typicly torqued to the reciever at 80-110 Foot Pounds by the manufacture. Most of them using a loctite type of adhesive on top of that. If a bullet caused enough tourque to untwist a barrel, The rifle would litterally be ripped from your hands as you shot it. Lito, the Colt revolver you speak of most likly was not torqued to spec by the factory. Lots of pistols are left hand twist and if unscrewing while firing was a problem I think I would see alot more revolvers in my shop with loose barrels.
This is not the case, and I work in the largest Machine/Gunsmith shop in Kansas City. I still believe that the only reason you dont see left hand twist barrels more often is the fact previously stated. "we are a right hand society".
George <GAP Rifle@aol.com >
Kansas City, MO, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 07:59:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.78)

Off Topic (but then again what isnt lately :-)

I am still lurking... been a little busy on a new website though. For those of you interested in the M1 Garand, there is a new web resource out there now... It is mainly geared toward newbies and CMP rifles.

Have a look if you are interested.

The M1 Garand: An American Companion In Three Wars is the site name.

Enjoy, and i am very open to criticism and suggestions for improvement.

Charles aka JT <tenarius@memorableplaces.com>
CCCPalifornia, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 09:45:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.156.137.61)

George, Re: left hand twist.
If this helps your argument any, The No4 Enfield rifle has a left hand twist. So does the french MAS-36. I have never heard of one of them shooting loose either. They are supposed to have the benefit of having less recoil by twisting the comb of the stock away from your cheek instead of against it.( for right handed shooters) They are also said to have less spin drift if shot south of the equator than a right hand twist barrel. The reason for this is a little complicated and I don't wamt to go there. But mathematiclly, it works out to about 30 % less spin drift.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 10:48:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.212.148.163)

And they wonder why I drink.....

gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 12:40:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.146)

About M3A Scopes,

Just a bit of correction to a posting below. The 300 Magnum BDC is not for the 190 gr. Bullet. It is for the 220 gr. Sierra MK at 2650 fps, kinda weak speed huh?

This is quoted from the Leupold Website.

"Compensating for bullet drop is only possible for certain calibers, with specific bullet weights and muzzle velocities:
.308 M 168gr. at 2,600 ft./sec.
.300 Winchester Magnum 220gr. at 2,650 ft./sec.
.30-06 Springfield 180gr. at 2,700 ft./sec.
5.56mm (.223 Rem.) 55gr. at 3,200 ft./sec.

(NOTE: The Mark 4 M3-10x40mm is gauged in yards except for the.300 Winchester Magnum, which is gauged in meters. The Vari-X III 3.5-10x40mm Long Range M3 is gauged in meters for the.308 and the .300 Winchester Magnum, and in yards for the .30-06 and the .223 Rem.)"

Additionally, in the never ending search for accuracy in words. The BDC is not a "Cam" as is referred to every now and then. The only sniper optics used in the US that have an actual cam are the Art series scopes. These have a ballistic cam that actually moves the scope tube up and down by the cam shaped ring that rides on a button on the base. As the range is dialed into the cam ring, the scope tube rises or lowers.

BDCs are not Cams. They are two distinctive fire control methods for the optical sights. Just my 2 cents worth. Take care all.

Trigger50 <Triggerfifty@home.com>
USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 12:55:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.17.48.4)

Brian,
On the cams for the LR if you use the 175s or hand load and push the 168s out to around 2750 to 2800fps you can use the 30-06 cam it tracks fairly close. The best thing to do is make your own. The dials are marked off in MOAs at the bottom and as you shoot, on out to what ever range your shooting, record it and then look at your data book and dial to that "MOA" and you should be close to dead on for those conditions. If you want to have a quick reference then do as I did, I painted the top numbers over and took a scribe and put my own yard markers above the correct MOAs for my load. It works great for quick shooting!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 14:20:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)

This may be off the beaten path...

Months ago I located a ballistics program that was totally amazing to me. It is called BalTraj. All it is, is a Microsoft Access database program (MDB file extention) that contained tons of bullet information and such. Does anyone know of this file? How about the site it came from? Know anyone who does/would know about this?

Thanks for all your help...

Rick

PS What sort of accuracy can I expect from a Savage 110FP in .308? Also, what exactly is 1 MOA @ 100 yards (or meters)

Thanks again.
Richard Ryerson <ryerson@truseal.com>
Akron, OH, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 16:51:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.124.49.65)

Gooch; I got this new Puerto Rican Rum you ought to try but the lid has left hand threads and I broke 3 bottles before I ever got to taste it. My question is ... would it have right hand threads if it were made in Miami?
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 17:19:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)

Speaking of Ballistic programs...
Does anyone know of a good one for MacIntosh (other that Psja (sp))

'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 17:37:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.97)

Lito, check out http://www.shootingsoftware.com/gc.htm. They have the best ballistic software for the Mac that I've seen. You can even scan in your targets and have the software run all sorts of stats for you if you're into that sort of thing (Somewhere, Gooch reads this and downs another shot.)

9mm handguns, Macintoshes, Savage rifles and Springfield scopes? What the hell is the world coming to? Bill, forget the rum, after the "9mil is king" comment I opened up the tequila....

Dave <dave@broadsword.com>
San Jose, CA, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 17:57:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.97.110.67)

Pete, thanks for the kind words. Now the orders I recieved last week wont be so fast because I am in the middle of making a bunch for TRGT.

Dean you are completely correct about the dials just being dial not ballistic cams. I agree that the 2650fps is slow for the 220's out of a well made rifle, but a stock 300Win Remington PSS has trouble getting to 2650fps. The chanber is so large that after you expand the brass, a load that will push the 220's 2800plus in one of your or my rifles will only go 2650fps.

On another subject, if you have an interest in 50's by Dean's book. It is well done. Palladin Press is the publisher and Amazon has it cheap. The book is roughly 600 pages and will save you money if you plan on buing a 50. Dean did the research you would of had to pay for on your own.

Look's like I will be doing some testing on all three Barrett 50's. The model 95 wuill be in the new military format. Now if anyone has any favorite 50 cal ammo they want me to run through them, let me know.

Scope testing is just about done and I have mountains of notes.

A 338 Project is in the works, the rifle should be here from H.S. in about two more months.

Very exciting times we live in.

Oh, 9mm is no damm good! I have seen too many bad guys take multiple rounds and just say "Please dont shoot me anymore, I'm sorry" Give me the 45acp anyday I dont have a real gun,a rifle.

Undude/Mike
Mike MIller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 18:42:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.187)

im looking for the right scope to put on my sks i use this gun for varmit hunting . I almost always use russian ammo because of cost. I have a chinesse scpe on it but the eye relief is poor. do you thnk a 4 power is strong enough. thank you

Mark Starr.
mark starr <masn@webtv.net>
wright, wyoming, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 18:46:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.240.200.40)

Oh, now we have rum bottles with left hand twist? I never notice, I usually bite the bottle off at the neck. No wonder some of your best rum comes from countries south of here-- you equatorial countries have to outfit their armies with right hand twist barrelled rifles (forces operating north of equator) AND left hand twisted rifles (forces operating south of equator). For special ops where fighting on and parallel to the equator is expected, gain/ungain twist barrels are used; these usually go from a zero rate of twist at the throat, gaining to 1 in 10 right-hand about 6" up the barrel, then ungaining back to straight, then gradually to a 1 in 10 left hand twist, then back to straight at the muzzle. These barrels are traditionally made next door to the rum factory.

Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
XX, MI, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 19:04:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.142.188)

This was using the M1 Garand 30-06 on the A or B course. What did a Marine have to shoot to qualify as a sharpshooter in 1955? I think it was 210 to 229????? or 211 to 229???? would some old Gunny set me straight. Jean Rene' Kraemer III (Tex) ser # 1512082
JEAN R. KRAEMER <twojays@digisys.net>
USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 19:27:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.150.203.26)

NED!

Enjoyed your summation of gain/ungain rifling. Question. Does firing in a southerly direction from the northern hemisphere, or firing north from the southern hemisphere create more pronounced drag and greater down range trajectory since the Earth's diameter increases as one approaches the Equator?
Doctor Science was unable to answer this one.

Thanks, in advance.

Keith
Keith Benoist <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durango, Colorado, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 20:40:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.118)

Trigger50, mrbullet, thanks for the information about the LR M3 BDC inserts (not cams). "Cams" is just easier to say, kind of like saying "gun" instead of "weapon" when talking about your favorite rifle. Does anyone have any recommendations about ordering the blank BDC insert, other than from Leupold for $35.00?

Thanks for all your help!
Brian <bolt_308@yahoo.com>
OR, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 20:49:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.36.35.69)

No, because at the equator the surface speed of the earth is at it's greatest, so flatter trajectories are had, regardless of caliber (man, I gotta stop this, that sounds believable!). In fact, bullets attaining greater than 4,000 FPS will actually arc UP, eventually disappearing into the atmosphere, to be caught up in the jet stream, and then dumped near one or the other of the poles.
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
xx, MI, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 20:51:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.145.226)

What's wrong with Savage rifles? With Springfield Scopes?

Rick
Rick Ryerson <ryerson@truseal.com>
Akron, OH, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 21:06:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.124.49.65)

If someone could please answer a quick question for me, which is the more powerfull of the two a .338 Winchester Magnum or a .338 Lapua Magnum, I know the Lapua is the more accurate of the two but bears are not intrested in accuracy. If you know allot about these two cartredges feel free to send me some info on the two comparing them.

Thanks
Grizzley Hunter <BadAssMstg@hotmail.com>
Detroit, Michigan, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 22:33:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.156.116.19)

Hey guys I am thinking of adding a Choate stock to my Savage(dont laugh) 110FP .308 Has anyone got a handle of the prices of these puppies and should I bed it myself or have it done by a pro?
Owen Foster <Sigma532@yahoo.com>
SomewhereIn, Texas, USA - Thursday, March 23, 2000 at 22:47:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.16.165.25)

Thanks to those that responded to my questions on ghillies and reloading dies.

Honest guys, didn't mean to piss anyone off about the trigger lock deal. Have learned to keep opinions to self and dig deaper before they are formed. I always learn lessons the hard way!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 00:02:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.186.234)

Just wanted to drop some statistics that were quoted again in a local watchdog newsletter. I know that everyone has heard them atleast once, but it's good for all of us to be aware and armed with the truth...

After surrendering their firearms, Austrailians are faced with an increase on a national scale of the following crimes - homicides 3.2%, Assaults up 8.6%, Armed roberies up 44%, and in the state of Victoria, homicides with firearms are up 300%
Steve <reptech@televar.com>
Republic, WA, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 00:50:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.8.144.247)

Mike not you too.
9mm in +P+ (like the Federal 9BPLE) is a good round. Maybe some 185+P .45 is a little better (for some things). Lets not get into the Penis Envy contest here. Or all the 50 shooters will dump on the -06 shooters who will start dumping on the 308 who dump on the itty bitty 223. I like the 9 and love my Novak Hi-Power -it works for me but I won't force it on others.
As far as 9 stopping - I've seen issue ball do nasty things to a human head, and ball 7.62 and 5.56 do things to a torso I wouldn't want done to me. A poor craftsman blames his tools. I blew a 1000m match once and blamed my rifle, a nearby shooter took it and made some 1200m shots with it (in front of onlookers to my dismay - but solving my ego problem)
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 01:02:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.139.207)

I just purchased a Rem700PSS in 308 and the stock fits the description of being a HS precision but I'm a rook and I'm skeptical as to it being the real thing. To start with the barrel all but touches the stock when it's up on bipod. I expected it to be a little stiffer. On further inspection it does have the aluminum bedding block along with a probably 8 inch deep channel that is hollow up near the end. My other question is while breacking the barrel in is there a time period. I understand the concept but there is no mention anywhere about how many rounds at one setting. Please help the rook.....
David White <ropemed@hotmail.com>
Abilene , TX, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 01:47:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.103.26)

I give you space age wiz kids a hard time about spin drift and all that but keep it up. Just remember to make sure you master the fundamentals as well.

Spin drift and all that makes for good conversation at the round table whilst copious amounts of grog are consumed. Adds to the effects of the booze and increases the severity of the hang over.

Gooch
Gooch <kentgooch@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 02:03:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.71.17.181)

I'm looking for information/opinions on 6.5mm-08 (a.k.a. .260 Remington). Is there an "easy" way to extract this topic from your archives? Thanks!
Chris <fivefour@garlic.com>
Coyote, CA, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 02:10:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.211.178.25)

Yo! Youse guys with the 9mm's
Take some advise from a professional gunfighter.
When you are not shooting the darn thing, do what I do. get a bucket of lard and bury the pistol halfway between the top and bottom of the bucket. A one gallon bucket of lard works good for the smaller 9's. You might need a bigger bucket for the long barreled High Capacity jobbies.
I have been doing this for years and it gives me great comfort to know that it is in there, in the bucket at all times.

Oh, Someone please, please ask me to explain why this is a good idea.
Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 02:11:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.143.24.236)

I take back what I said on the S&W deal...

When I said, a few days ago, that the S&W deal wasn't anything to worry about, I had just heard the surface "glossy" stuff.
But I had a chance to read the whole thing today, and They sold us all out, big time.

So I retract what I said, and no S&W's for me anymore, unless they do a turn around!!

It would appear that others are saying the same thing... many dealers are canceling orders for S&W's all over the country...

Pablito.

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 02:18:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.134)

OK Steve,
I'll bite. Why the lard. I know I'll regret this!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 02:20:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.2.248)

Bolt: "Honest guys, didn't mean to piss anyone off about the trigger lock deal. Have learned to keep opinions to self and dig deaper before they are formed. I always learn lessons the hard way!"

What lessons have you learned? Could they be:

(1) Make sure my opinions conform to the other visitors of this forum before I post.

(2) If I happen to piss someone off, I have to repeatedly say that I'm sorry, eventhough the topic of discussion has been over for 2 weeks.

(3) I must learn from my foolish out burst and never have a mind of my own.

(4) When all else fails, make sure I don't forget about lesson # 1.

C'mon. Were all supposed to be full grown adults here. It's OK if you have a different view from somebody else! I'd rather hear opposing views discussed in a rational manner, than to listen to 200 posts all agreeing to the same opinion.

If someone doesn't agree with what you've said, that's fine. As long as the debate doesn't get personal and degrading, it's ok to discuss these things.

It would be a cold day in Hell before I came on this forum to simply become someone's "Yes Man".

In the end, as long as we all respect eachother's views, we should all be heard. Irregardless if others agree with you or not.

What's with all this stuff about 9mm vs. .45 ACP again. For the last time, doesn't EVERYONE know that the best handgun/subgun/combat rifle cartridge is the .22 LR? (I can imagine we can all have fun debating this one!)

Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 02:28:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 142.177.89.10)

OK Steve, interest is peaked, I'm bored, so i'll ask the question about the 9 and the lard bucket.

Gooch, definition of "spind rift", 'the difference of opinion caused when husband asks wifey if he can spind some money to buy another gun' often results in silent treatment, removal of favors or large knot on head.

Ned, have a rifle with a barrel identical to the multi-directional twist you described. Has made by "Bacardi" stamped right on the barrel.

Am presently working on a multidirectional pivoting bipod, legs stay in place, barrel points where you want to without the problem of the legs catching in the carpet and screwing up my dry firing practice.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 02:29:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.138.186.234)

Why would the US Air Force Combat Arms Instructors need to train their personel on the Barrett?
Any takers?

http://w3.nai.net/~redhat/weapon.html
http://w3.nai.net/~redhat/m82a1a.html
CCaspers <Deltavkps@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 02:33:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 137.48.19.47)

Ok, guys here it is.
First let me say that I did not say that I was a profesional gunfighter. I am just a history buff.
So for those who asked, here is todays history lesson.

It's 1875, the era of gunslingers. This is the true story of a young man
who wanted more than anything to be the fastest and most respected
gunslinger in the west. The place was Tombstone, Arizona, the Boot Hill
Saloon.

The young man walked into the saloon and, to his surprise, saw Doc
Holliday sitting at a table playing poker.

The young man walked up to Doc and said, "Doctor Holliday, I would like
to be a gunfighter just like you. Could you give me some tips?"

Holliday put his cards down, looked up at the boy and said, "Son, I
don't usually give out tips like this cause it could someday be
detrimental to my health but, for you I'll make an exception. Step back
and let me take a look at you."

The boy stepped back. Holliday looked him over and said, "Son, you look
good. You're wearing black, you've got two pearl handled guns with waxed
holsters, and you look like a gunfighter. But what's more important son,
can you shoot?"

The young man, happy to show how good he was, quickly drew his pistol
from his right holster and, without aiming, shot the cuff link off of
the piano player's right sleeve.

Holliday said, "That's good shooting son, but can you shoot with your
left hand?"

Before Doc could even finish, the boy had already drawn the pistol from
his left holster and shot the cuff link off of the piano player's left
shirt sleeve. The young man proudly blew the smoke away from his six
shooter and holstered his gun.

"How was that?" the boy asked.

Holliday smiled, looked up at the boy and said, "That was pretty good
shooting son. I couldn't do much better than that myself, but I do have
one good tip for you."

"What's that?" the boy asked.

"Well," Holliday replied, "I suggest that you go to the kitchen and ask
the cook for a large can of lard. Then take both of your guns and stick
them down deep in the lard."

Puzzled the young gunslinger asked why he should do that.

Doc put his cards down for the second time, leaned back in his chair and
said, "Well son, when Wyatt Earp gets done playing the piano over there,
he's going to take those two guns of yours and stick them right up your
ASS!"

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 03:22:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.143.61.62)

Baaa Baaa - Ok I'm intriged LARD BUCKET?.
My nine preference comes from our service use (Inglis/BHP). I figure we could belabour this one to death, but If I have to use my handgun I figure I am in big trouble. To me (Mil not LE) a handgun is a secondary armament, more rounds equals a better chance to have less people trying to cause inconsiderate greivous damage to my personage.
This Big Heavy vs. Small and Fast could drive a man to drink.

Trivial Point to Note (Which Matt in Uk probably can confirm)
Artillery Pieces that are constructed for Southern Hermishpere's are rifled opposite to Northern in order to compensate for Rotation of the Earth etc. (Or my IG was just screwing with my head - but it was a class lecture) My brain is still fumbling on this one [and the course was years (before I went Infantry) AGO]
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 03:26:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.136.18)

Rum bottles?
How about this one...
(I couldn't resist..)

“THE PITCH”

Lance Corporal Jones was assigned to the Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, where his job was to advise new recruits about their government benefits, especially their GI insurance.

It wasn't long before Lt. Smith noticed that Lance Corporal Jones had almost a 100% record for insurance sales, which had never happened before in the record of the Depot.

Rather than ask about this, the Lt stood in the back of the room and listened to Jones's sales pitch.

Jones explained the basics of the GI Insurance to the new Marine recruits, and then said,
“If you have GI Insurance and go into battle and are killed, the government has to pay $200,000 to your beneficiaries. “

After a brief pause he added,
“However, if you don't have GI insurance, and you go into battle and get killed, the government only has to pay a maximum of $6000."

“Now,” he concluded, “which Marines do you think they are going to send onto the beach first?”

CCaspers <Deltavkps@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 03:47:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 137.48.19.47)

Jeff B. - .22 pistol -

Good point you made about the .22 pistol - after all - the bad guys can't wrap kevlar around their head... :))

Ken
Ken <ImpactArea@snipercountry.com>
Nokesville, VA, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 03:56:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.84.196.60)

Good joke, Steve. Who's cufflinks have you been shooting off?

The AF Explosive Ordnance Disposal pukes use the .50 cal to, as you may have guessed by now, dispose of unexploded ordnance.

Speaking of Air Force, I forget who was looking for the sticker. Found one. If you'll e-mail me before Sat. I'll pick one up for you.

Semper lunchtime!
jim <youngestliles@hotmail.com>
PDX, Or, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 03:56:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.255.9.40)

The Air Force has Air Base Ground Defense responsibilities to the wire. The Army has it from the wire out. Years ago (the 80's) the USAF sent lots of their guys through Infantry Officer Basic Course. Don't know if that stopped or not. They had some GREAT toys.

9mm ball? Geeze, John Paul II is still alive and kickin', and he took multiple hits from a BHP in 1980.

B U L L E T P L A C E M E N T!!!
Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 04:01:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.217.210)

RE: my question about US Air Force Combat Arms Instructors training their personel on the Barrett...
----
Ok, Ok....

I know I know, someone out there is saying, "What a newbie post THAT was..."

I should have figured that AF .50 cal out on my own.
Thanks for the emails from those who responded already.

Geesh, thats what I get for taking two 3 hr college classes back to back and spending 3.5 hrs cross country dual in IFR this morning.

Wheres that rum bottle at? Pass it over this way...
The one with the 'super-sipper-snap-cap'?
~C
CCaspers <Deltavkps@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 04:03:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 137.48.19.47)

Dave,

Are you implying that they may intent to use the Barett for runway perimiter defense? I'm just wondering...

I can really comment on that with any 'facts' but I do know from working and BS'ing with the training NCOIC, OIC, SP's and other 'base police' on Offutt AFB (and from being inside their arms room); that they have NO sniper weapons or training, let along any .50's.

They were trying to get funding to scope out some of their M-16's (possibly it was M-4 or CAR types - I dont remember) with scopes or to get some type of bolt action to be used for their SRT teams.

Last I heard was that upper echelons saw "no reasonable need or possible use' that would justify such procurement.

Go figure...
~C

CCaspers <Deltavkps@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 04:16:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 137.48.19.47)

as far as we were told, all the M82A1's were sent to EOD. That is the only AF guys I have trained on the rifle.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 04:24:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.5.6)

Kevin, OK I admit it the +P+ 9mm is good. I was just remembering when they told use we had to carry the New MaGic FBI 147 Subsonic crap and having to tackle the bad guy after he took three rounds of 9mm Magic. Left a lasting impression. Man who uses what FBI does is bound to F...Up.

Gooch, anything that promots drinking is fine by me.

Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 04:39:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.52)

On the pistol question

I carry a S&W 40 cal, It has almost the best of both the Nine and the 45ACP (in my opion). You get almost the volcity of the nine, which really should not matter unless you are shooting at superman hiped on speed. And almost as good knock down power of the 45 but. I think hands down you really cant beat the humbling roar and thump of a 45 piercing and riping flesh.

May I ask why we are disscussing Air Force security teams? That is a Joke those Fly Boys have an inferiority complex I think. I almost wipped so little grunts ass last year at Edwards becuse he had to smart off to me in a parking lot. Those guys could wip there way out of a wet paper bag if it was on fire. ( I am going to catch a flood for this one)
sigma532 <sigma532@yahoo.com>
SomewhereIn, Texas, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 04:48:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.254.144.34)

Air Force using 50 caliber Barretts!!!???? Hmmmmmm we've come a long way since I was in. The closest we ever got to a 50 caliber (any type ) wa when some one picked up the latest issue of Guns and Ammo magazine. We did however have the best and I mean best, rubber bands and paper clips the service had to offer. Our first line of defense: grab a hand full of rubber bands and a pocket full of paper clips, place the rubber band between left index finger and thumb, straighten paper clip and see if we can make one stick in some E-8 lifer's hard ass. Never got too much work done but spent a lot of time in front of the officer of the day trying to explain our actions.

Savage Rifles - very adequate rifles, if you replace the trigger with an exceptional aftermarket trigger.

Springfield scopes: Have played aroudn with the 223 version adn the big 308 version with the 56 mm bell. 308 version was once again adequte, but that 223 version is a piece of dog shit from the word go. If youve got one unload (and not to a friend) to someone who is looking for that particular scope. Maybe Im just spoiled looking down such tubes as BL, Leopold, and Schmidt und Bender. Just my opinion.

al o.
Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@nls.net>
East Of Waukegan somewhere in , Ohio, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 04:53:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.144.4.45)

Dave, never said I preferred it (ball) but that it can work - Placement - your right.
Do you know anything about the USN(R?) [and WA. NG] SASF on April 27-30 at Lewis.
Some friends and I are going visiting and I was wondering on M4A1 (he with the clearest scope wins) allowance at those things?

Mike, +P+ never leave your 9 w/o it (or w/o it leave your 9). Mind you the HydraShok works well (especially in colder climates were people wear a lot of clothes). If I had grown up w/ the 1911 like you boys down south I probably would be a big .45 fan too. Our locals use the .40 G22 w/ 180gr Speer Gold Dots (had a couple problems with them - but no plans to switch). The RCMP use the 115gr Win Silvertip in their soon (apparently a problem w/ firing pin erosion) to be recalled S&W 6906’s.

Probably more people killed w/ .22LR than all of our Big Boy Stuff (once again - not recommending).

EOD - Yes I recall the CF using that same explanation (look how many actually are still in Engineer Armouries) Secret Squirrels show up in the night ‘borrowing’ kit - Why exactly do we need a 1000m+ EOD rifle? We BIP the large ones and use 5.56 on the bomblets.

Someone please explain Gain twists - I thought it was a gradual increase in the rifling. I remember in my Pre-PPCLI days looking in tubes and seeing a beveled increase in the lands (or grooves can never remember which) that was to be less aggressive on the brass driving bands. But recently I was told it is a greater twist rate as the barrel progresses? (I read the roster and am still confused).

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 05:15:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.134.227)

Everyone: Patron Dave is showing how he EARNED the Patron title once again. You tell 'em! S-H-O-T P-L-A-C-E-M-E-N-T!! I said I hated the headshots at 20 something yards from behind a baracade under time, didn't say I couldn't do them though :-) I'd rather be missed (or winged!) with a (insert your favorite caliber here) than skull screwed with a 22! Think about it. By the way, haven't sold any of the 'ol slab sides off yet (well, except the one that wouldn't work), and don't intend to. As for the 40, and yes, I like them too, I see it more as the worst of both calibers rather than the best, but shoot them anyway.

As for promoting drinking, start BREWING! I can turn $12 worth of dry goods into 7 gallons of Heiniken in about 4 weeks. Fosters takes a little longer. If I could get PERFECT McEwans Export IPA, well, then I wouldn't be able to type in the evenings. Working on it though......
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Cedar City, Utah, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 05:24:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.162)

Bravo;

That would be a waste of 12 Bucks. Hey but I am from the South. So I am in favor of getting all Liquored Up and taking pot shots at anything that moves.

Owen Foster <Sigma532@yahoo.com>
SomeWhereIN , Texas, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 05:33:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.254.144.34)

Dan -"The object is not to kill (that is between the bad guy and God), the object is to stop a series of actions that absolutely must not continue. If there's not a long gun about, that means the .45.
- CDC"

Sorry to be so rude as to include off roster mail - but my point wasn't that a .22 was a good round for stopping - but a good back of the head round (PLACEMENT - in a way)and in that way has probably a bigger body count to its credit than other rounds.

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 06:17:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.129.199)

JT-
Nice site! Although that is an interesting looking stock at the top of the pages. Do you sell those? :)

Paul M. <prmayne@ala.net>
USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 09:36:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.2.25.162)

Looking for some details on the newest USMC issued Barrett M82A3. Anyone have some trigger time on one? Whats new, improved, and A3'd about her? Who put out the RFP on this package and who is the end user supposed to be? They still using the outdated Unertl 10X on this variant?

Is it just my jaded philosophy rearing its ugly head, or does an article dealing with cowboy era gunleather not belong in Tactical Scooter....errr... I mean Tactical Shooter magazine ? Let 'er rip on that one! Not that I have anything against Joe Rychetnik or anything.
mda <shawnabell@msn.com>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 16:09:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.42)

to SC Staff

What happened to the PX? Did it close or change location?

Also I'm still testng Cavim brass and am on the sixth reload, the first two where througha 91 then a M14 two times and now two differnt bolt guns. After the neck get thined and trimmed it works fine.Stll has the marks from the 91 flutes but no problems yet.

thanks
MJ
MJ <montereyjack@kmenterprises.com>
Monterey, Ca., USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 16:31:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 165.236.189.200)

Ned—

That's assuming they are fired in conjuction with the rotation of the Earth, right? Otherwise, they would burrow at a rapid rate, thus increasing the mass of the planet at a correspondingly accelerated rate and thereby setting up shock waves such as those responsible for causing planetary axis tilt, thus leading to what we refer to as seasons. Rifling, as it were, through the laws of God's creation.

K
Keith <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durangatang, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 17:21:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.133)

MJ, I've had pretty good luck with CAVIM brass myself, despite the bad rep the ammo has. I have not had bad luck with the ammo but have not fired thousands either. It is not particularly accurate but not worse than run of the mill milsurp stuff. There were comments some time ago that it blows extractors off of M60's. Venezuela was about to switch from FALs to FNCs when the mudslides struck; that's on hold for now but CAVIM is tooling up to make 5.56 SS109 for the Latin market. Check out the nice exploding sausages CAVIM makes at http://www.cavim.com/marco2.htm. Great gag at breakfast! The FALs and FNCs are/will be Belgian made not license-made in Venezuela.

Kieth-- it's time I fessed up. The earth is flat, stationary and the center of the universe, and it doesn't matter where you are, there will be no dif in trajectory, UNLESS you put one over the edge, in which case you may piss off a dragon and that's not good. This whole spinning earth thing was concocted by primitive peoples to explain what they were feeling after drinking too much rum!
Ned <michigun@hotmail.com>
Little Caracas, MI, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 19:09:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.89.145.129)

Hey folks. Gotten a lot of really good information on the Hot Tips archives. Thanks!

I'm looking to buy a varmit rifle and like the Savage 12VSS. Anybody have one of these and can comment?

I'm debating between 223 and 22-250. I'm leaning towards the 223 since shells are cheaper (don't have a reloading outfit *yet*) and I figure that more lead/practice will mean better accuracy than the higher speed of the 22-250. Any comments?

Thinking of a VariX III 6.5-25 X40 with target knobs and a target dot. Is this a good choice for varmits? How do you go about ranging with this scope? I like the MilDot but it's a fair amount more expensive than the target dot.

Appreciate any feedback and advice, thanks!

Joa
Central Oregon

Joa <jharrison*nospam*@precast.com>
Redmond, OR, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 19:37:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.119.46.10)

Ned—

Okay, okay, I thought as much. So this would explain "RIGHT" angles, as opposed to "LEFT". One final question. If gravity works equally on all objects, why do bubbles go UP when you pour a beer into a glass?

Keith <starlyte@frontier.net>
Durangatang, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 19:38:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.174.108.17)

Kieth...
But the bubbles in Guinness stout go down (I didn't believe it until I saw it)... so that proves that whe world is trully flat, and the Irish live on the bottom of the disk, and the bubbles go up for them, and down for us.

Pablito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 20:03:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.87)

Since when did they start putting threads on the corks of rum bottles?
Just checked out the direction of the vortex when I flushed the toilet. It is CCW. Anyone in the Southern Hemisphere want to verify the direction down there? By the way, I was looking at it from the top. Hum.
John <jhugdahl@pressenter.com>
Hudson, WI, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 21:11:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.100.170.112)

iam really interseted in being a sniper i found ur site doing a reasearch paper in school the other day iam looking for information on like the farthest shots ever made when did it first start who started sniping who are the most famouse and stuff like that can u please send me info on those topics
thank u kris
kristopher mcdevitt <mc_fish@hotmail.com>
absecon, nj, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 21:17:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.213.204.132)

I got my Leica LRF from SWFA last week. It is very cool! It is much clearer and brighter than the Bushnell. It can range find with
both yards and meters and it seems to be pretty sensitive. I haven't done any scientific tests with it, but for $399 I am impressed!!
Michael
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
San Hoe, CA, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 21:33:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.192.208.6)

Does anyone know of a clear chart on the net i can print before i leave work in two hours?
I am looking for the heigth in inches/mil = range (in yards) chart.
Thanks!
jeff <pumpkin0871@yahoo.com>
san jo, partlycloudymid70'sifyoucaredifornia, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 21:53:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.247.149.130)

mda,
We just started delivering the new M82A3's to Uncle Sam's Misguided Children ( like that one Gooch? ) last month. The new rifles have the M1913 rail from just behind the front site all the way to where the rear site used to be. A slightly tightened chamber, getting rid of that damn SLAP chamber. Who the bonehead that decided on that for the original run, I have no idea. The bipod legs are 2in shorter. You can get behind the gun a lot better now. Smaller flutes on the barrel. Yes they are still using the 10X Unertal, for now. Got to see the new optics for it. KILLER! There is provision for a rear monopod if they decide on it later.
Will try to get a pic later and make a link.
Outta here.
AIRBORNE!!!
Tony White <gtw90@gateway.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 22:41:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.26.2.219)

Does anyone have information about a rifle-scope, presumable made by Leatehrwood?
It's a matte black, 3x9, marked ART/MPC, serial number 002010, calibrated in meters (not YDS), and in near perfect condition.
I believe it to early production, but really don't know much about it. I've had it for several years, wish to sell it, and need to determine the value.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks-
dennis
Dennis Trumble <dennist@adpdirect.com , dentrum@swbell.net>
Overland Park, KS, USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 22:44:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.172.214.154)

Kevin, you could give Mike Haugen a call at 1st Special Forces Group at Lewis. I'm not sure what the match rules are (NRA rules state that foreigners competing with their service weapons shoot in NRA Match Rifle category, meaning a 3.5 pound trigger pull, iron sights. I think military rules may allow the Elcan on Canadian M16 and Carbine, or the SA80 sight on Brit rifle, for example).

Dennis T., an ART MPC with a mount was worth about $375, new, with mount in late 1982. Nice scope, very easy to use.

Colin, the stateside (and Europe) Air Force is a different animal than the Korea US Air Force.
Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
USA - Friday, March 24, 2000 at 23:52:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.217.210)

Just did my own experiment. I filled my toilet with Guinness stout and flushed it. No vortex at all, just went straight down. Then Mother Nature slapped me on the back of the head and told me to quit screwing around before I got hurt.
Eric R. <Roody5150@aol.com>
Cabot , Pa, USA - Saturday, March 25, 2000 at 02:55:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.63)

Easy on those Springfields al o, there's no doubt they're not the quality of Leupolds or BL's, but they definitely are a very good scope. I have the 5.56mm Tactical on my Colt Accurized Rifle, and provided your 69 graingers are doing the proper velocity, this is one piece of glass that's tough to beat when cleaning targets set out at unknown distances because of it's rangefinding (very accurate, I might add) capabilities. My particular rig will hold sub moa out to the 700 yds the glass compensates for,dead on at the point of aim. Piece of dog shit, I think not.
dan <danr@acnet.net>
Deep South, Texas, USA - Saturday, March 25, 2000 at 04:11:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 170.76.45.139)

IS THIS THE BREWING CHANNEL???????????????????????

Dave, Thanks (I guess the ACOG might be viewed as cheating- I'll ask) We're only taking uppers and borrowing lowers from Y'all so I guess if they say NO to the M4 I can always use the A2 upper (less paperwork up here) I was told I could bring an Elcan equipt upper, but I was looking forward to using the M4 in comparrison to A2 and Elcan'd C7's to see if there was a big dif. (Also a good excuse if I do terrible - blame the short barrel, and the A2 trigger)

Tony, You should sent the .338 up here - The AI and another .338 LM gun just got turned down by the RCMP maybe a nice gas gun will enthuse them? They have a couple 82's already so they might be receptive.

Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Saturday, March 25, 2000 at 04:33:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.148.130.22)

And they said Nintendo didn't build sniping skills.. ~:-o
http://precisionremotes.com/
Throw a G-suit over it and hang out in the support van with the joysticks. Only 50K :-(
Richard <r356c@aol.com>
Central, FL, USA - Saturday, March 25, 2000 at 04:54:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.83)

I hate to post things that are "vendor orientated" to this board, but I fell like I must. The prize list keeps growing for the 2nd Annual Sniper Challenge and today we received another major contributor. In the major prize category, so far we are looking at 2 custom built Rem 700s for the 1st place team, a Larue target ($1200) for the top shooter, a HTS Super Gen Night Vision unit ($5760) that will be raffled away (everyone will have a chance, not just the winners), a case of Black Hills .308 ammo, plus lots of other great things. Additionally, our prototype-moving target tested out past 800 yards today. This target is a self-contained unit that runs on it's own wheels not a track, and is remote controlled (hence the 800+ yard necessity). We also put up a board last night that will let single shooters hunt for a partner. For more details check out http://www.snipersparadise.com/SniperComps/SniperChallenge/sniper_challenge.htm. ---Thomas

Thomas <email@snipersparadise.com>
South Tip of , Texas, USA - Saturday, March 25, 2000 at 05:16:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.100.139.248)

Dan,

I got a SA 2nd Gen Scope on one of my SA M1A's, and a Mk4 M1 on the other one. Does the SA hold zero? Yep. Do the windage and elevation knobs have precise clicks like the Mk4? Hell no. Does the SA have the resolution of the Mk4? Nope. Does the SA cost over half as much as the Mk4? Unfortunately, yes. There are a couple of guys on here that use this scope, and like it, but I wish I had bought Mk4 before I tossed over $500 into the SA rig. I guess what I am trying to say is I would have spent less money by doing it right the first time.
Anyway I am glad to hear that you are able to use yours with some success. I would not recomend it to someone though.

Best Regards,
Bill B <dc8plumber@aol.com>
ky, USA - Saturday, March 25, 2000 at 14:06:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.26)

Has anyone tried the new Hornady heavy (90 grain) .223 V-Max bullet in a fast-twist bolt gun? Looks like a good high sectional density bullet for long range coyotes (maybe a 22-250?). The jacket is much thicker at the base than half-way up the bullet, thin at the ogive.

They also have a cute Partition-style 60 grainer for who knows what (coyotes and goats?).
Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
USA - Saturday, March 25, 2000 at 14:20:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.217.210)

Steyr SSG HIgh Rings. Just get a US Optices base for the Steyr and you can then use any rings for a Pict.type base.

Mike/Undude
MikeMIller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Saturday, March 25, 2000 at 16:55:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.192)

Dear All, Brain Warning: IF YOU'RE NOT INTERESTED IN RIFLING DIRECTION/HEMISPHERES ETC PLEASE SKIP TO THE NEXT POST!

Kevin,
Saw your more recent posts. I thought I'd reply personally so as not to bore everyone. But then thought "sod it, I'll bore everyone"
(by the way Kevin, you may have guessed, I'm an IG -I think it goes with the turf that we all like to play with people's minds! (sorry about that!) )
You asked if Southern Hemisphere manufacturers employ left-hand twist. I don't know!
I do know that most Soviet guns have left hand twist; I don't know why, but they do! I have always understood it to be a random East -West difference (wouldn't be at all surprised to find the French being left handed twisters just to be different too!).
I think that others have misunderstood the whole drift thing. I'm sure that as an former gunner you'll know -but I'll say it anyway!- drift is unaffected by being in the N or S hemisphere. It is simply a by product of a gyroscopically stabilised projectile meeting its airflow slightly nose-up. A right spun projectile will precess to the right and therefore drift right. A left spun projectile will do exactly the opposite (look through a soviet direct fire gun sight and the drift graticules go the opposite way to ours.) .
You mentioned rotation of the earth (and this may test non-gunners!) You may remember that the size of the effects vary with latitude and bearing of fire (and range!). The 2 main effects that are usually grouped under the title 'Rotation of the Earth' are:
1. Projectile Lag -the earth 'leaves the projectile behind' a bit because of its low angular velocity at altitude compared with the angular velocity of the earths surface. This means projectiles always land a bit further West than you'd expect. (so firing west your round goes long, firing east they go short.) 2. Coriolis -too bloody complicated for a short paragraph- the effect is most pronounced on fire directed N or S and least on fire E or W. The effect is that fire will miss to the right in the N hemisphere and the left in S hemisphere.

Notice that the only effect that varies by hemisphere is Coriolis, HOWEVER, this effect WOULD NOT be measurable at normal small arms ranges (nor would proj lag -whereas drift IS measurable).
Pablito has me convinced. Left or right hand rifling will depend on the direction of the barrel thread and resisting the torque created as the round engraves and accelerates.
Matt
Matt <MT@mtwilks.fsnet.co.uk>
UK - Saturday, March 25, 2000 at 17:02:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 195.92.198.73)

Bill, like I said, SA's are definitely not on par with Leupolds. I have the original 5.56mm version and I believe I picked it up at a show for about $370. I recall being uneasy of purchasing it because I had also heard about problems with them but decided it was such a neat concept, I would give it a try. And it's turned out to be a good one. As far as the the precise clicks go, remember, you zero once and pretty much forget about adjustments unless you start using a different lot of ammo that requires re-zeroing. No big deal. And you're exactly right, the resolutions not there compared to a Mark 4. I know. I have the M3A's on my .300WM and my .308. But we really should'nt compare the two. I think you give the Springfield a try because of it's hands free sighting and rangefinding style of operation appeals the shooter, and if you get a good one, they ARE tough to beat. My partner and I (of fairly equal skill levels) set out 10 12"x12" steel plates, at unknown distances between 300-600 yards, a few years ago. Two plates were set at the same unknown distance. We then engaged 5 plates each to see who could knock them over the fastest. Same Colt rifles, mine with the Springfield, his with a M3LR w/mil dot. Bill, the comparison ended there. I had cleared all 5 when my partner was still dialing in #3. We then switched rifles. Like results. He cleared his 5, I cleared 3(I allready knew the approx. range). The Springfield does require some dedication. You have to learn the invisible 25, 50, and 75 point of aims for each 100 yd. "crosshair", do-able with practice. So I think it's a scope that does have it's place, admittedly more in the fun-gun category than the serious sniper/counter-sniper category typically discussed here. Just my opinion.

also, best regards,
dan
dan <danr@acnet.net>
Deep South, Texas, USA - Saturday, March 25, 2000 at 17:16:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 170.76.45.98)

Lupitas and SA scopes...

I can't quit figure why SA scopes are being compared to Leupold MK-4's , and then knocked???

I checked the Premier site, and the Tactical MK-4/mil-dot's are $1079... the 4.5x14 56mm Gen "1" SA is $399 from SWFA, and my dealer got mine for $349. I got the 4.5x14 40mm 5.56 SA scope for $310...
... jeez guys, talk about apples and oranges!!

For under $400, you get a 30mm tube, a built in bubble level, an auto ranging reticle that is one of the best on the market, and good optics... are the optics as good as a B&L 10x tac... hell no... but they are better than you need, and better than a lot of scopes in that price range.

Lookie, I don't think anyone has said the SA scopes are "EQUAL" to the Lupitas... but I figure that the MK-4's are nearly FOUR TIMES AS MUCH.

The SA scopes (with their range finding reticle) are very fast to use... in a "Spotters match", nothing will keep up to them. While you're diddling with your "mil-dot master", the guy with the SA will have cleaned his targets.

With the internal rangefinder, you don't need target turrets... you zero it, and forget it, (unless you fall off a cliff :)).

You can compare the B&L 10x tac to the Lupita MK-4 M1 10x, and have a reasonable debate, and a reasonable comparison... (the B&L is BETTER!! :))... but to argue that the SA isn't as good as the MK-4... well, I don't know.

I would take the the SA "Gen 1" over ANY tactical scope in it's price range, and I'd take it over ANY scope AT ANY price in a spotters match.

'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, March 25, 2000 at 18:30:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.116)

I am interested in buying a new Rem Sendero in .300 Win mag. Anybody have one with comments? The best price I can find is through Jerry's Sports for about $565. I plan to upgrade the magazine/trigger guard with an HS Precision replacement for about $130.

Just wonder if anybody out there has any feedback on theirs before I buy...

Thanks...
n grant <ngrant943@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, March 25, 2000 at 18:36:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 167.240.254.1)

Well guys, just thought I should add a little to the Springfield scope bashing. NOT! Really, I had a Lupita Mk4 M1 10X mildot on my rifle, then I changed that out for a Lupita Mk4 M3 10X mildot. I know, lots of change, but I wanted less turret hanging out over the ejection port to get dinged. Well, wanna guess how it goes? The Springfield Gen 1 is going on in place of the Lupita, for quick shooting matches, and the Lupita is going on for the long range matches and Mike's school in New Mexico. With the ARMS #22 QD rings, this shouldn't be a problem, except for the lapping, which comparing mine to the MK 4 rings is pathetic. If you get the #2