Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 00:24:53 (ZULU)
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 01:03:18 (ZULU)
I realy feel that I belong now I got my first email from Nigeria.
Am heading Out for some Yote's this weekend. Going to try the 50g Vmax that a friend loaded up for me. Also will get to shoot at some long distances for me, out to 800 possible.
Later.
JLU
Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 01:30:32 (ZULU)
E mail me if you have any information
Bomac <biker3@earthlink.net>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 02:42:49 (ZULU)
KenM,
Good to see you still around. You ever get to send any 7mm pills out of that new 280AI?
'Yote Bait,
Good to see you in from the sage,,, even if it's just the cold that pushed ya indoors ;))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 02:46:46 (ZULU)
Reading George's Lips; I'd lock and load. Monday is president's day!
Osama; Since you profess you wanna die anyway. I'd be proud if you'd send me your position. Why not make me rich? I promise it won't hurt long! Send me Sadamn's too, .. bloody infidel. Maybe you can convert him on the way!
50 Caliber 3 times the speed of a .44 magnum? What you guys up there at S&W smokin? 4500 fps. I think not. Tell us.. the rest of the story!
JOe D.; 800's a fur piece (no pun intended) for 50 grain pills. But have your self a merry holiday weekend anyway! Say hello to the back of the sound barrier for me.
Steve' Jerry's got it about figured right!
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 03:30:30 (ZULU)
I highly recommend this book. Have a bud that was a scout dog handler in Nam. Excellent read especially for you Sniper Mutt type folks.
http://www.dogtagsofcourage.com/
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 03:30:41 (ZULU)
I have been loading for the M1A's for several years now, and I have had lots of success with IMR4895, and Winchester748. I like LC brass, but I have had good luck with Federal, and Winchester too. Seat the bullets to the same OAL as Federal Gold Medal Match. Dont try to get away with just neck sizing the brass or you will be really pissed off when you gotta pull the bullets, and rebuild those rounds. I got Kreiger barrels on both of mine 6 groove with 1/10 twist. 2550-2570fps seems to work best for Sierra 168's or 175's. I shoot 175's out to 1000yds in competition.
I got two M1A's. One has the Springfield 3rd Gen Scope Mount, and the other has the Brookfield Precision Tool Company mount and Leupold Mark4 rings. The BPT mount is one of the best I have seen. ARMS makes a mount too, but I havent used it. The BPT is about $300 if you can find one.
Feel free to email if you need any help.
Best Regards,
Bill
William Bledsoe <dc8plumber@aol.com>
outback, ky, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 04:13:43 (ZULU)
I just got back from the G.A.Precision/Badger hospitality thingey. Ok I'm ok.........saw lots of the roster hawgs there, Mike Miller, Bruce Robinson and his lovely bride George and some other people. The beer and food was free. I'm ready for my root canal now doctor. I don't know how much more of this I can take.........I'll try...to .....continue..........so sleepy...........zzzzzzzzzz....
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 04:51:18 (ZULU)
Brain Sain- Protech helmets ....ummm good stuff...cheaper than stitches. I know from experiance =)
See ya,
Joe S.
Joe S. <spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, Cali, US of A - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 05:03:22 (ZULU)
Incoming email about "The Phantom of Phu Bai"
jc
jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 07:06:43 (ZULU)
The army is suppose to have fielded a SPR or Special Purpose Rifle, which is a AR with a 20" Krieger barrel, in A'stan. They are shooting Black Hills 77gr ammo in it. Does anyone know if it is performing to the militarys satisfaction?
What are the criteria the SPR is supposed to fill?
Why not go with the navys version of the SR-25 (besides cost)?
I know it's a gas gun question. But thought someone here might know.
Thanks
Bill
Bill Byford <byfords@otbnet.com>
IL, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 09:16:00 (ZULU)
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/vssweepman/vwp?.dir=/Project&.src=ph&.dnm=New+Nikon+Tacticals.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/vssweepman/lst%3f%26.dir=/Project%26.src=ph%26.view=t
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 12:25:35 (ZULU)
Been out of the loop for a couple years, but I think the Army is still using the MILES gear (just a new generation) called MILES2000 or sometimes referred to as MILES2. I'm sure someone else out there can get you a lot better technical data. We just called them P.O.S.
Chris too
Chris Workman <cworkman@esiofva.com>
Va Beach, VA, - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 13:40:24 (ZULU)
My baby is back home!! I picked up my 6.5x284 from Jr. and he gave me his extra barrel to go with it. I said, "Whats this for", and he admitted that he shot it on the man on man matches at the D&L shoot last summer after I told him I would kill him if he did.
I took it out and shot it, it still shoots well (4" 5 shot at 700 and a 4" 3 shot group at 800) but now I worry that it may give up on me at a inopertune time. I have to send the damn scope in on this one too!! I am having trouble dialing it(4.5x14) for some reason it turns real hard on the up an down. I want to get the new gen. mil reticle put in it so may contact Premier an see if they can correct it at that time.
The 260s really shooting well with the 140s so now I am loading in my spare time to get ready for summer. One thing about load testing in the winter the barrel doesn't get hot!!!(HA)
Son's on standby, might be getting called up within a week or two. Wish it was me instead of him. Much better being there than sitting home worring. The Gulf war was the shits when he was over there hate to go through it again.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 15:00:44 (ZULU)
Upon returning back from vacation, I received my Eagle TAC-V1-NU VEST (TAC-V1-NU). My intention for this vest is to set it up with gear for my Rice rifle.
My plan is to have two US GI canteen. A pistol belt and a standard combat pistol holster issued by our armed forces; can't forget the butt pack either or K-Bar. But besides that, I have yet to decide on what else to add.
My question is this, has anyone setup a vest with use with their rifle for green or black ops? If so, how. Any suggestions or advice on it?
Thanks in advance!
Darren
Semper Fidelis
Darren <usmc_dd214_1990@yahoo.com>
SF, CA, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 15:00:48 (ZULU)
Good deal. Looks like you just may need that barrel, but from the sounds of it,, it's doing well for now. You could always get the new one chambered and fit, then index it and keep the old one on until it's dead and switch back to the new barrel. A lot of trouble though.
Good to see the 260 coming along. I loaded up 50 rounds for the fagmags and I'm going to try and do some load testing this weekend. I hope I find something quick, as there's three more matches this month.
Shooting in the winter,,,, I saw the footage of the tractor trailor blown over in SoDak, and the snow rollers in the plains,,,, no thanks;))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 16:46:35 (ZULU)
I'm primarily a bolt gunner, but my M1A's have responded well to 168 and 175 grain Sierra's.
Powders? The old Isreali AA2520 shot wonderfully. Still have 8 lbs or so...
IMR 4895 shot so-so
IMR 4064 very good.
You may want to try Varget...it has the correct burn rate and shoots wonderfully in everything I've tried it in...
Stay away from 190 grainers in the M1A. Unless you want to beat the hell out of the gun.
Primers...use Winchester LR. Stay away from Federal 210's as they have soft primer cups and are frequently traced to slam-fires in the M1A/M14 rifles.
Hope this helps...
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 16:50:54 (ZULU)
Gaby's uncle (former SS MG guner) was in the Foreien Legion for about 10 years after the war, doing all his time in N. Africa. He said he had to get out when too many frogs started showing up in the ranks. Prior to that he said it was like a reunion from his Leibstandarte Div. He also mentioned the reason the Legion lost in SEA was that they insisted on running it in a froggy manner and not the way the "Germans" wanted to do it. But who's to say about that.
And I'm interested too, in that little secret you have. (but you can keep the rusy kabobs =)
Keep em in the X,
Joe S.
Joe S. <Spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, SoCal, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 17:26:08 (ZULU)
******Paddy Murphy goes to the Circus******
Paddy Murphy was walking round’ town with nothing to do like, pub's shut, then he spots a sign that says the Circus is in town. Never been to the circus, so he gives it a go.
Paddy gets to the circus, watches the lions, tigers, elephant, trapeze artist, he’s enjoying the show, when all of a sudden a donkey is brought out to the centre ring. The ringmaster gets on the PA and announces to the crowd that he will pay any man woman or child £50 if they can come down and make this donkey laugh. So lines of people form, everyone’s giving their best shot to make the donkey giggle, tickling it, makin faces, and this donkey doesn’t so much as smirk.
So Paddy decides, I’ll give it a shot, walks up to the donkey and whispers something in his ear. The donkey rolls over laughing, from the gut. Ringmaster begrudgingly pays Paddy his £50.
Next day, circus is still in town, so Paddy decides he’ll see it again. Lions tigers, trapeze, same show, ringmaster brings the donkey out to the centre ring, gets on the PA, says he’ll pay £50 to anyone who can make this donkey cry. So everyone lines up to try to make this donkey cry, with no success, not a tear.
Paddy walks up to the ringmaster, asks if he can take the donkey outside for a minute or two. Ringmaster says that’s fine, so Paddy takes the donkey outside the tent and 2 minutes later walks the donkey in, who’s bawlin’ it’s eyes out. Paddy holds his hand out for his prize.
The ringmaster furiously shoved the £50 into Paddy’s hand, and asks him “What the hell did you do yesterday to get this donkey to laugh?” Paddy says, “I told him my cock was bigger than his”. “Well how did you make him cry?” says the ringmaster. Paddy says, “I took him outside and showed it to him”
JR
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 18:15:36 (ZULU)
My limited knowledge on the SPR's as of a couple of months ago - there are (were) several different versions out there, Spr and SPR-A (probobaly more now) plus a USMC version called SMR.
They have been identified with Douglas, Krieger, and Schneider barrels with the Army versions at 18" and the Marines at 20".
There are a huge number of old M16A1 rifles out there and they're being put to good use by having the lowers refurbished and converted to SPR specs. A whole bunch cheaper than paying Reed Knight's prices, plus they wanted to retain select fire capability. We all know how controllable a .308 is on full auto. A local company has a large contract to perform some of these conversions, and they lease our club range one day per week for testing. Some other reasons that they didn't go with the SR-25 may be that the military needs quantities of the SPR now, and Knights may be stretched just producing guns for their existing contracts (my speculation).
I believe that the doctrine behind the SPR may be going toward the squad DMR application, although Master Rick confirmed that SPR's are being used as observers rifles in Afganistan. Sinister reported that the word that he got from the troops using them is that the BH 77gr. ammo is performing very well over there.
Now I'll editorialize just a little. I love the .308, and I own and shoot a bunch of them, bolt guns and gas guns. One of my next purchases will be an AR10(T). Having said that, I truly believe that many of the stories that we hear about the lack of effectiveness with the M855 round is probably due to the very poor marksmanship on the part of the average GI, enhanced by first time combat buck fever. You have to hit 'em to begin with. Then you have to hit 'em in the right place in order for it to count. The shoot through barricade argument falls apart unless you're shooting an LMG at fortified positions. What are you gonna do, use an M25 against railroad ties and sandbags, etc? Besides, the M855 will out-penetrate .308 GI Ball at long range anyway!
I've got some more SPR info if you want it, but it's been a constantly evolving project, and specs may be changed a bunch by now.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 18:53:52 (ZULU)
Thanks for your generous offer. Would love to make it an overnight in my ancester's homeland (my gramps was born there), and knock down a few lagers with you. I bet the Frankfort frauleins would love to see me to. Unfortunately, it looks like I am flying with the Dutch (KLM) and will be going to Kiev via Amsterdam (any ladies in Amsterdam?). I will definately take a rain check on that beer with you in Frankfort though. Take care.
Don
Don K. <ussr@clarityconnect.com>
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 20:57:57 (ZULU)
With that said I was looking for info on S&W 50 when I ran across this firearms production report (http://www.shootingindustry.com/02pages/SpecRep1.html). The reason I found it interesting was that I had aways assumed, and I know about assumptions, that Remington and Winchester/U.S. Repeating Arms were about equal in size and/or production numbers. What this report, based on year 2000 figures, shows is that Remington produces nearly twice the number of rifles. When I saw this what came to mind was the problem some have reported here about being able to find Stealths in the gun stores. It suddenly became obvious, there weren't as many to be had as the PSS's.
Beside finding some of the other production numbers interesting I figured that maybe knowing this might make those who have found a Stealth at one of their local shops think twice before passing on buying it.
Enjoy the report, I did!
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 21:46:16 (ZULU)
I have a custom (pre-ban) M1-A - double lug, Krieger barrel, everything tricked for high power. Only limiting factor is it does have a wood stock. I want to switch over to scope for all the advantages, mainly field shooting, but I could also shoot any/any matches in the area. Should I just buy an ARMS #18, or sell the M1-A and buy an AR-10? I am really unsure which way to go.
Thanks
Jerry
Jerry <gmueller@cablespeed.com>
Baltimore, MD, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 23:18:08 (ZULU)
Thanks for the info and feel free to e-mail anymore.
Has each service settled on different optics? If so, what are they?
I have asked a very knowledgable friend about the Sierra 77gr and it's preformance at min to long range in .223. If thee is anything interesting I'll post.
Thanks
Bill
Bill Byford <byfords@otbnet.com>
IL, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 23:37:45 (ZULU)
http://www.swfa.com/spottingscopes/tripods/index.html
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 00:03:57 (ZULU)
Anyone familier with the FN technique for chrome plating their SPR bolt gun barrels, for the accuracy they are getting out of that rifle? Supposedly they are using M240 MG barrels, or is that a rumor?
Terry
Terry Hoover <Thooverusmcv68@aol.com>
Kansas City , Kans, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 01:01:21 (ZULU)
I have an M1A laminated stock highpower stick that I scoped a while back to see what it would do. I ran into a couple of issues. I had to replace the wood handguard with a fiberglass one to clear the scope mount. The stripper clip-slot piece had to be removed for a piece that screwed to the scope mount. It was not a simple 2 minute conversion so I set mine back to iron sights where it belonged and used one of my bolt guns for scoped work. I don't have an AR-10 but with the removable top changing from scope to irons is a lot easier.
Later
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 01:03:44 (ZULU)
I too would keep the antique in it's current form. It sounds like a fine piece, and is valuable as it is. IMHO you'd be better served shooting the M1A in Service Rifle Long Range. It may not have the edge it once did at 600, but at 1000 I think it still has the edge over the 20" mousegun. (I can hear ya now Hockeyref ;)) Not many shooters shoot SR at long range anymore, at least in my neck of the woods.
What ya should do is get a friendly competition going with the Hockeyref as to who'll get their NRA Master Classification first with a service rifle. You with the antique or he with the hopped up mouse. Then the rest of us could place bets,, and have a big time with it too ;))
Boltster,
Nice find!! Looks like it'd make a fine little rifle rest if need be, as well as a spotter stand.
A little more info on the new Nikon tacticals. It has 105 MOA internal elevation and 104 windage as well. That ranks right up there with the 50mm NXS and edges out the MkIV M1 as far as internal travel. It also has a slightly modified MilDot. Time will tell, but it has the makings of a nice scope IMHO.
No bites on the best throat angle for differing ogive shapes huh....
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 01:45:30 (ZULU)
"A sniper from a SWAT team who just got a raise decides to buy a new scope for his rifle. He goes to a rifle shop, and asks the clerk to show him a scope.
The clerk takes out a very expensive scope, and says to the man, "This scope is so good, you can see my house all the way up on that hill."
The man fastens the scope onto his own rifle, has a look through the scope, and starts laughing.
"What's so funny?" asks the clerk.
"I see a naked man and a naked woman running around in the house" the man replies.
The clerk grabs the rifle from the man, and looks through the scope at his house. Then he hands the rifle back to the man along with two bullets and says, "Here are two bullets, I'll give you this scope for free if you take these two bullets, shoot my wife's head off and shoot the guy's dick off."
The man takes another look through the scope and says, "You know what? I think I can do that with one shot!""
Gooch out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 02:06:39 (ZULU)
Much of the early development at the AMU shop and at SOCOM on the SPR was done using the venerable B&L 10X40 "Tac 10" scope in ARMS #35 track-type rings with #35 Throw-Lever base. It seems that most of these rifles in the field are now wearing the illuminated Leupold 3.5-10 M3 LR scopes, with above mountings. The plan was to go to the C-More Systems 1.75-7.5x illuminated scope for this rifle, but I understand that there have been some production problems (probably fixed by now). The Marines have been using the US Optics SN-12 scope (I think) on their SMR version.
Along with the refurbished M16A1 lower receivers, the upper of choice has been the M4A1 flattop from Armalite. The front sights have been the PRI (Precision Reflex) flip-up model, and both ARMS and KAS (Knights) flip-up rear sights have been used. Most SPR's have had their A2 pistol grips replaced with the Falcon Ergo Ambi Grip. No more wraping the second knuckle of your index finger around the trigger!
Triggers have been from Accuracy speaks (single stage) and KAS for the two-stage option. A PRI modified charging handle is being used. These rifles have (mostly) been fitted with an OPS, Inc. combination muzzle brake/supressor interface to work with the OPS supressor (if furnished).
Forends and rails have been the KAC free-floating RAC, the PRI carbon fiber float tube reinforced with a special ARMS extended length Swan sleeve anchoring the flattop to the float tube, a similar setup from Young Manufacturing Co. using an aluminum tube and their own extended sleeve, the C-More full float handguard, and the full length ARMS SIR system. A majority of the SPR's are equipped with the Standard rifle (A2) buttstock, but there some in the field equipped with the Carbine (retractable) stock. The last that I heard there is no "definative" SPR model out there - but that's possibly changed by now. I just finished building a clone this week and have been firing the break-in shots in my yard before a trip to the range (the ol' lady is in Denver for a week on business HA!) I'll post results when I have them.
Terry,
Word has it that the Military has been experimenting with a 6.7mm (.270?) version of a necked up 5.56x45 but that's all I've heard at this point.
An engineer told me that FN came up with a new (secret? patented?) system to deposit industrial hard chrome to an extremely uniform and accurate thickness in their bores. Supposedly much too expensive for any but the largest companies to utilize. But watch Winchester!
Jerry,
I've got an M1A NM and an M25 clone - love 'em both! But if you face strong competition in your area, and want to win, IMHO get an AR10 and have George build a .260 out of it. FWIW
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 02:41:53 (ZULU)
Bought a Comp M2 and ARMS#39 rail for the M16A2. Seems like a good solid system. Have to throw kudos out to Kelly at ARMS, they did good by me.
While I'm talking up people, Rocky Green at Unertl and the rest of his crew get a nod. They hooked me up, and now if I can just get my unit to step up and deliver the $, things will be good.
I ran across and traded for a Winchester 1886 take down in 45-70. Full sized rifle, 26"octagon barrel. Pretty cool. Feel like Quigley down under or something. Thinking 405 LBT's at about 1800 or so.
The gentleman running my local IDPA league E-mailed me the other day volunteering to send letters to my troops. A touching gesture that caught me by surprise. There are lots of decent Americans out there just doing their thing below the radar. Sometimes I forget that, with all the miserable shit that gets the attention in the media. Reagan was right about the invisible moral majortity. Things like this make it all the BS worthwhile. God Bless. Semper Fidelis....Ken M
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 04:03:28 (ZULU)
Sorry mate, missed the question on throats.. Shoot me an email and I'll see what I can do for ya... Think winter shooting in SoDak is rough eh? ha...Those overturned tractor-trailers make a hell of a windbreak/shooting pad..
Gooch,
HA!
Anyone shoot Reflex Suppressors here? Pete? Ya notice if you shoot with the can, then unscrew and shoot without, that your POI shifts about 4" at 100 yds? Seems a little extreme to me, wondering if something isn't aligned, bush is loose or something. I know your harmonics change, youse get different vibes so your grouping might not be nice, but a 4" shift vertical? hmmm... Never really had the chance to play with them in the states, it's a shame we can't use them..
Hope youse made it thru VD with only minor scratches..
Later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 07:18:14 (ZULU)
A betterer alternative IMHO would be for the US to just get the hell out of the UN, kick them out of New York and let them find another place to whine to each other. Quit sending our hard earned money and troops overseas. Let Iraq, Iran or any other of those psychos go ahead and start some crap and see how long it takes for the women's underwear wearing countries to come a begging. When they do start begging, like the Russians say, TUFKY SHISHITZKI. It is time for the US to shut the doors, slap a 1000 mile radius around us and blow the living crap out of anything that even looks like it may cause trouble. Heck, it won't be long before people BORN IN AMERICA are going to be the minority. CLOSE THE FRIGGIN BORDERS (except to all of our Roster Hawg buddies)!!!!!
I am ready to get off of 24/7, 4 hour notice, alert status and start getting some motherfornicating sleep. I want the terrorist illegitimate sons to have enough -bleep bleep- testicles to come out and fight like real men, hand to hand, knives, guns or whatever they want to use. I don't give a feces. We'll fence off North Dakota or some other place and just have it out. Leave the military outside the fence and let the good old rednecks like me do our thing. It would be a hell of a lot better than sitting around waiting to get called out for another 911. This sucks and I'm getting more and more pissed off every day.
On another note......
I'm afeared that the match at Butner tomorrow will be cancelled due to the 'wintry mix' that the weather geeks say we will be getting. You may want to call the range before striking out. If it gets cancelled, I'm afraid Master Cockerham is going to have a major coronary event.
Speaking of AR10s......
An AR10 in 260? Sounds really sexy! I reckon the mags would be a sawbuck a piece though. Of course, after seeing what 223 mags are selling for now, it won't be long before they are a sawbuck a piece.
Final note......
I said to myself 6 months ago...."Self, buy up a load of cheap Isreali gas masks and hold them to sell when the sheeple get scared again." Like an idiot, I didn't. Last week I saw two go for over 200 friggin bucks on EBAY. Sometimes I just want to slap myself in the forehead.
I think I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, Bolt cranky and out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 11:37:36 (ZULU)
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 12:02:07 (ZULU)
"I want the terrorist illegitimate sons to have enough -bleep bleep- testicles to come out and fight like real men, hand to hand, knives, guns or whatever they want to use."
Of course you do. The last time a nation state came out and fought us "like a man" they were ground into kibbles in the most lopsided victory in history. Don't expect a group that isn't even a nation state to fight "symetrically" with the US of A. They know what would happen. We are faced with "asymetrical warfare" like it or not. We'll need to adapt to the new rules and win.
The threat we face today is made up of men that are neither cowards nor stupid. They are filled with hate toward us and intend to destroy our way of life by whatever means necessary. Do not underestimate them.
I think our leadership knows even better than we how dangerous these men are.
Our greatest challenge will be to stay the course inspite of the ever louder blatting of the sheeple around us. The sheeple can smell a wolf in the flock and they are scared. This fear is exploited by the bed-wetting peacenicks that think fondly of the "good-old-days" of the anti-war movement in the '60s and see this as an opportunity to put flowers in their hair, get high and get laid like they used to.
I suspect FDR allowed Pearl Harbor to be attacked so he wouldn't have to deal with this kind of anti-war behavior back in 1941. Today we can't afford to let a "Pearl Harbor" happen because with WMD technology the casualties would be in the six figures.
"Come out and fight like a man?" Don't count on it.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 12:11:40 (ZULU)
Agree to a point. However, men fight men, armies fight armies. They may not be stoopid, but they are cowards. If a man won't stand face to face and rumble with you he is a coward. Then again, if I was stoopid enough to believe that if I blow my ass up for Alah I will get 17 good lookin virgins as a prize, hell I might do it too.
People call me paranoid. You damn skippy I am (in the vernacular of my daughters). I watched 'Red Dawn' a hundred times. I have read 'The Invasion', 'The Cobra Event', 'Germs' and 'The Hot Zone' a dozen times each. If people in this country don't believe it can happen there is no hope. One of these days the sheeple are going to wake up with only grissle on there asses cause somebody is going to get the meat.
Sorry to preach to the choir. Got up too early today I reckon.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 12:31:19 (ZULU)
Blair may have the eloquence, but Bush has the favor of his people because he doesn't sugarcoat anything. Thats the difference between the US and Britain and the rest of the world, people actually care about their country in the US, although at times we doubt it, the US is the most patriotic in the world. That's the problem, Bush calls a spade a spade and as much as we like that approach, the rest of the world chafes. Blair does not have the support of his people like Bush has of his, and no matter how pretty a speech Tony and his cabinet make, it isn't making a difference. The sheeple of the world are pussified. What is going the difference, god forbid, but it's gonna happen, is another attack.. I mean they could catch every wannabe terrorist that comes in the borders, but people will not align until it hits them personally, hits home, which means another attack in their borders. Then it will hit the fan, and everyone will come running to the US for aid.
And you're gol' damned right we should get out of the UN, NATO as well. I think we should do it just to make a point that we don't piss around, we mean business, and demand the respect we gave these countries when we decided to liberate them..
And don't close the borders yet eh...Give me some notice if you do Bolt, ha...
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 13:28:23 (ZULU)
I was listening to National Public Radio on the way home the other day... The interview was with a representative of ANSWER, the group that has so efficiently organized the large peace protests across the US (I don't know about abroad).... The interviewer asked "isn't Answer in some way related to the Worker's World Party?"... after about ten minutes of redirect, the interviewee acknowledged the direct link...
I suggest we all check out the politics of the worker's world party to understand what they stand for and how they are having a significant influence in American politics and public opinion. Just to whet your whistle... they are pro-Marxists, anti-Semitic group, they supported Milosovich <sp?>, the crackdown on the Tiananmen square uprising, etc... real nice folks.... The peace-niks acknowledge they are aware of the group's politics, but feel the greater evil of a democratic country attempting to protect itself from rouge terrorist states must be stopped at all costs, including, apparently, freedom.
How can we have so many stupid people manage to organize and assemble in one place? Perhaps there is a Shepard managing the herd animals?
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 13:32:17 (ZULU)
Strike the shepard, scatter the sheep.
Nick
Nick Anzano <nanzano@mindspring.com>
Milton, NJ, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 13:53:15 (ZULU)
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 14:10:37 (ZULU)
I sent a request via email to the French embassy the other day. I ask what "their" plan was. To my surprise, I received a response from a french diplomate. It was a 19K email so I won't post it here but will forward to anyone who might be curious. Or, strangely enough, it can be read on the CNN web page today as the French position. HA!
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 14:10:48 (ZULU)
Fatboy~ you setting up good laugh at my expense?? It'll be years before I get a LR card just because of the round count per match vs the rounds needed for classification. (Now if I shot LR at Perry....) The .308 and the AR at 1000 are basically even ballistically if you shoot 175's vs 80's.... now if I hop it up to the 90's, I have a slight advantage (and I need it due to the sight radius - not a big difference between an X and an 8 looking over an AR's sights at 1000). If you & JR get into the leade angle thing could youse bumz 'cc' me on it. Sounds interesting...... anything to expand my personal knowledge.
>>>>>"We are faced with "asymetrical warfare" like it or not. We'll need to adapt to the new rules and win."<<<<<<
The only rule to learn here is do what it takes to WIN - and know that you're gonna get some lumps along the way! I look at this as a street fight where any one of the assorted shadows around you might just hide a badguy that'll jump in at any moment. Any of youse remember your younger days where you got into fights over stupid shit like someone talked to your girlfriend? Seems that when guys tried to call me out for talking to their squeeze they always had a bunch of friends for "backup". I'd just say "Fuck it, I don't need your friends jumping in on this when my back is turned so either I'll find you when you're alone, or you, you, you, and you lets go. Pack a lunch 'cuz I'll be hungry when I'm done." I may not have been able to kick every ones' ass but I guaranteed someone had a trip to the hospital if I had to fight more than one of them! Whatever the idiot wanted to fight over usually became unimportant, a few took me up on the offer and we had a grand old time. I can't remember the last time I had a go 1 on 1 - off of the ice!
The point is you do what ya gotta do to stomp their little dicks into the dirt! All's fair!
Any comments on the plane going down in South America. Columbia? I heard that they found two dead crew members still in the plane - one US - with bullet holes in them. Thought the rebels had captured the rest....
Steve ~ Hockyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
Tired of this frigging snow, SW PA, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 15:40:49 (ZULU)
Incoming mail with no attachment!
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 15:52:39 (ZULU)
>>>The "shot heard round the world" is commonly thought of as the beginning of open conflict in the American Revolution. I was very surprised to realize that NONE of my young firefighters have been taught WHY the redcoats marched on Lexington and Concord... do you know? I would think it pretty important to understand what the 'final straw' that the colonists found so intolerable that they took up arms against a significantly superior army of occupation.<<<
If I recall correctly, the Brits were going to Concord and Lexington to confiscate the towns' central store of weapons. Things like cannon and muskets for those townfolks that didn't have their own weapons.
Did I hit the "X"?
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 16:12:42 (ZULU)
You wrote, "Today we can't afford to let a "Pearl Harbor" happen" but it's to late for that statement because 9-11 did happen. Past or present we can't say whether or not it was knowingly allowed to happen but we can influence the decision for anyone to try it again. But it is almost certain that if we take no action it will happen again and again.
Anyone got any "we're not interested in taking your guns" land outside of California, I'm looking for a new home to retire to? Based on the current state of affairs I might even pull the plug early, this place is beginning to stink! Let me correct myself, it's been stinking for some time, it's really worse than ever! I just heard that the Great Western Gun Show has settled with the County of Los Angeles. For those that aren't aware LA County passed an ordinance banning the sale of guns on County property. The twist in this case is that the fair grounds were leased to the City of Pomona. Under the settlement they won't hold any more gun shows on LA County property and my tax dollars are going toward the million dollar plus settlement LA County is paying them. Look around more counties are doing the same thing. Also, City of Los Angeles approved a yet to be drafted ordinance banning .50 caliber rifles in the city.
Got to get off the subject before the blood pressure gets to high, later...
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 17:04:41 (ZULU)
Spotter calls a hit, splash one marxist shepard...good shooting.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 17:05:55 (ZULU)
Move to TN. Land is cheap (and it's pretty nice land), two 1K ranges in Midd Tenn, No state income tax, Shall Carry law, 2 gun shows a month in Nashville. We are the 2nd lowest taxed state in the country until you add federal taxes, then were fifth lowest. I'll pay my 9.75% sales tax thank you ;)) Let me know when you're serious about moving and I'll mail out the real estate flyers/magazines.
JR,
I'll be sending a mail tonight, you'll get it too Hockeyref.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 18:31:21 (ZULU)
They're always there when they need us."
--Dick Knifing, Channel 13 KRQE in Albequrque
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 19:26:11 (ZULU)
The reason I was considering the AR-10 over the SR-25 is because I can get the M1-A Magazines I have converted to AR-10 configuration. I was told you couldn't do that with the SR-25. Any body know for sure?
Also the Upper Receivers are interchangable on the AR-10. Again not so with the SR-25 unless I am mistaken?
Just thinking an upper in .243, .260, .308, and why not a real thumper like .358 Winchester? Thinking way beyond my wallet.
Cabin fever in Baltimore. Been in the teens and twenties for most of the week again. Snowing like hell now,expecting more tonight.
Jerry
Jerry <gmueller@cablespeed.com>
Baltimore, MD, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 19:35:59 (ZULU)
On their knees...........
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 19:44:30 (ZULU)
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/charleskrauthammer/ck20030213.shtml
-
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 19:45:49 (ZULU)
Seuss <samiam@netrax.net>
Inbound snow in, PA, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 20:48:45 (ZULU)
There is likely to be a .260 AR10T at ASC2 as part of the NJ three man team I'm attending with... Paul and I plus a new guy.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 21:08:23 (ZULU)
**********************************************************************
"The French, they are a peculiar race, they fight with their feet - and f**k with their face". - Oscar Wilde
**********************************************************************
But seriously folks, did any of you ever notice what the French word for 'shower' is. It goes a long way towards explaining why Frenchmen either smell really bad - or they're pussies!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 00:48:49 (ZULU)
Beginning to believe the widely held opinion on standard scope mounts. I just finished resighting my varmint rifle for the 3rd time in a year. The Redfield mount & rings (came with the rifle originally) seem to move with very little cause. On the other hand, the .308 with Leupold mounts did a 1 1/2 gainer off the workbench to a concrete floor last year and never moved. From my general gunsmithing days, I got the impression that Leupold either heat treated their mounts & rings or used harder steel. Gonna budget for Mk 4 bases & Smith Enterprises/Burris rings.
Bolt-won't be making the Butner trip. Between wife & work weeping & wailing just doesn't look good.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 01:22:26 (ZULU)
Made it back from the SHOT Show. Whhheeeeeeeeeeeew. Ya'll gotta go. Unbelievable. All the folks were there. Jeff Cooper, Chris Caracci, Denny Calker, Doug Koening, Rob Leatham, Dieter Anschutz, you name 'em.
Hell, I got three job offers and two marriage proposals.
Met Andy's Papa Grande finally, the Lowlight operative from the Hide, George and Marty's whole gang (what a party), Rod Hansen, Bruce and his lovely bride and others. Undude nailed me for two slings.
Met an Israeli SNIPER. Cool CHICK. Married to a doctor. She sez "I shoot 'em, the ole man fixes 'em up". Gotta love it. Talked me into doing a table dance in front of a thousand men at the concession stand for my damn SWAT shirt. I quit before the alternate lifestyle folk started waving dollar bills. Had a Badger shirt to put on thank goodness.
Met all the 2112s from USMC PWS Quantico. SEMPER FI GENTLEMEN !!!
I got damn drunk at Marty's gig. THANKS AGAIN MARTY AND GEORGE / FREE BEER ROCKS! Forgot to call momma that night though. oops.
Yeah, oopses ass. Payin' today. "Where the hell were you at....?"
Making up is hard to do. Isn't that an old Neil Sedaka song or something? I digress.
Head still hurts from last week. Dudes, we had a truck full of scateboard helmets. Just didn't wear 'em. Guess I just shoulda ducked more at a slower speed.
Maybe momma will slam it into the headboard later and reopen the wound. he heh. Ooops, busted on the 'puter. Gotta go.
coming Dear ...
see ya guys
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 01:30:17 (ZULU)
Jerry - You are correcton the AR-10's being interchangable, they are also cheaper, have beeter service, and the mags are cheaper. USA mags run $10, conversion kit $30, and USGI base and spring $3.50. Throw away the USA spring and floor plate, and save the USA box for proof you used an existing mag. So two for a saw buck.
Alan - the big problem now with the .308 SR's is production of rifles and mags. Knight has bought a new, larger facility but it will be a while before they move. 3000 rifles a year is about all Knight can produce. The other issue is that SR's and Ar .308's use different mags, and with the ban, the 20 round SR mags are in very short supply. AR-10 mags are easy to get. Amalite has a new plant, and has sold some to us and some allies, but nothing of any volume.
Your info on the .270 for the AR-15 is appreciated. I have heard the same, but that the case is a new design with a rebated rim to match the .223 rim, but allow for 30 grains of propellant pushing a 115 grain boolet. The shoulder is supposed to be set back to allow for the long boolet to fit into the mag. Supposedly only barrel, buffers, and recoil springs need changing to swithch over the rifles. MV is around 2800 fps with a range of 800 yards. BC should be over .55 if they do it right. Seems real optomistic, but I have heard this from several sources. I'd bet it looks alot like the old .280 round the british played with in the '50's. The one thing thats for sure is that their is no comon standard yet for the rifles.
Take care,
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 02:22:16 (ZULU)
incoming mail no attatchments.
Steve ~ Hockeyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
siting here decompressing , Got a rug rat induced headache!, - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 03:23:01 (ZULU)
Just a related side note. When you mount/zero a scope on a ring/base that has a course adjustment screw system make sure you mechanically zero the windage on the scope and make all of your windage adjustments with the base course adj screws before messing around with the turrets. If you dont do this you might end up running out of windage in a stiff wind someday and actually interfere with elevation adjustments.
When you get the point of impact as close as you can with the base course adj screws then lock them down and fine tune it with the turret.
Somebody explain to the class why excessive windage on a scope can effect the elevation turret??? I had a AL Trooper have this happen once and we had to totally rezero his scope. Anybody???? Beuller????
Gooch out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Japan - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 05:00:11 (ZULU)
Note that even Qadaffi later denounced the 9-11 events but I cant find anywhere where Iraq said anything about it. Kind of damning if you ask me.
"An unidentified person talked in the name of the Japanese extremist " red army" has claimed responsibility for the series of aggressions which took place on Tuesday in Washington and New York. This was in a telephone call he made with a Jordanian paper and justified these aggressions in the desire to revenge the victims of Hiroshima killings.
The former chairman of the Jordanian writers Union Fakhri Qawar, who is also the chief editor of the Jordanian daily al-Wahda said in a statement to the AFP that:" an unidentified person who speaks Arabic but in a foreign accent claimed, in a telephone call with the paper, responsibility for the series of aggressions in the USA and stressed that these aggressions were carried out in revenge of the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki." Qawar added that the speaker did not give details and closed the telephone receiver and Qawar stressed that he takes this claim seriously.
Several Arab countries denounced the aggressions against the US and sent cables of denunciation and condemnation to Washington. These were sent by the Lebanese President Emil Lahoud, the chairman of the Palestinian Authority Yasser Arafat, saudi Arabia, Jordan, King Muhammad 5th of Morocco, President Muhammad Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, President Ali Abdullah Saleh of Yemen and from the Kuwaiti President.
Moreover, Islamic organizations expressed their strong condemnation to these attacks and the founder of the Hamas movement Sheikh Ahmad Yassin denied his movement to have any link to the said attacks. Sheikh Yassin said:" Our battle is only with the Zionist occupiers in Palestine." Both the democratic and people's fronts for the Liberation of Palestine denied any link to what happened in the USA. In a statement the Islamic Jihad movement said:" we are against any thing target the civilians."
Just a thought..
Gooch out again...
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 05:23:31 (ZULU)
This identical same scenario is used in the Tom Clancy book, "Executive Orders," with the exception being that there was only 1 plane involved. In this case a rogue Japanese pilot flies a 747 into the Capitol building and kills most of Congress, the President and also the Supreme Court. The pilot's actions were said to be retribution for the outcome of WW2 in the Pacific Theatre...and the pilot acted alone. The copyright on this book (if I'm not mistaken) is 1996.
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 06:33:31 (ZULU)
Back from two days at the Shot Show. I have met a lot of people that I see their names on the internet. Good to be able to put a face to the name. I enjoyed talking with each one of you, and hope to see you again at some of the shoots.
While I was away I received a thank you card from Steve Suttles for the get well card I sent him. THANKS!!!! I hope you get back to your regular self soon.
TonyM
TonyM <tam308@aol.com>
FL, US of A!!!! - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 13:26:50 (ZULU)
"Somebody explain to the class why excessive windage on a scope can effect the elevation turret??? I had a AL Trooper have this happen once and we had to totally rezero his scope. Anybody???? Beuller????"
Now,, I'm guessin' here,, but I figure if you run the erector cell to one side or the other, it's no longer centered in the tube. Since there's more room in the center of the scope tube than than there is on the sides, when you run the knobs up or down the cell will contact the tube before it runs out of travel on the adjustment screws.
How'd I do?
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 13:50:59 (ZULU)
Got me a new puter yesterday. Running this old one until Monday when the Roadrunner truck comes by. Yep, decided to go with Roadrunner for a while and see how it does. Ended up with a P4/1.8Ghz/256ram/40gig drive/RW/N/98, 40x12x40x CD burner, 1.44 Floppy, Hyundai ImageQuest L70B flat screen. Can't imagine what it's going to be like trying to change email addresses. Haven't had to do it for 8 years. Plus have to set Dough Lady up an email address.
Man, I tell you what, Fox News has the best hotties on the tube. Easy on the eyes.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 15:54:00 (ZULU)
Great job on the scope answer. I've always used a dime and a quarter to illustrate this principle when face to face with someone who doesn't seem to understand it. Center the dime flat atop the quarter, then ask him to put some windage on the dime. Then instruct him to try to gain maximum elevation with the dime, within the confines of the quarter, while holding the windage previously set. This example saves a thousand words with some people!
Titan,
Thanks for the heads up. Got a question for you! I've heard that Knights have stopped making their CMP/DCM version of the SR-15, which I thought to be possibly the best factory built Service Rifle ever made. Is this also because of lack of ability to meet production levels already committed for, and do you think that they'll ever resume production of this rifle when they expand their facilities? I competed with a borrowed one once, and it had the best two-stage AR trigger that I've ever used, besides being a fine rifle in itself!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 17:31:26 (ZULU)
Alan, rumor has it that Knight sells the MkIIMod0 to the military for $6500 each, which means about $4000 profit in eack kit that goes out the door. This will give you some insight as to why the Sr-15 and civilian stuff is drying up. There is no point making $1000 dollars when you can make $4000. Besides, for what Knight charges for their match rifle, you can get a hand built one from Compass lake. I have shot the Knight CMP rifle, and while it is a nice one, the Armalite and the Bushmaster are just as good. I will duck now for incomming.
People -- What we are withnessing now with this anti war crap, and the German/French( Pussy ) Connection is an all out economic war between the Euro and the Dollar. Since the Dollar's value is only based upon our economic reputation, if OPEC switches to Euros our economy goes in the shit real quick. IF we prevail, then OPEC is dead and the dollar becomes the truely dominant currency of the world. By invading Iraq, all hope of the Euro becoming the standard goes down the tiolet. The Alliance of Gutless Wonders is tring to get Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, and Saudi to switch to pricing oil in Euro's, instead of dollars. Russia is on the fence as to which way to go, and since we gutted there economy in 1998 they may be looking for a little payback, but they want to be on the winning side most of all. The big part of our taking IRAQ is to stablize the world situation politically, and I clearly think that we will make an example of him that our N Korean Buddy and anyone else will take seriously. It also would not suprise me that The Gutless Wonders have struck a deal with the terroist to behave like they are in exchange for terroism free zones in there countries. This is not to mention all the GDR and French chemicals in Iraq and other places. Keep in mind too, that the money behind these peace protests is coming from the banks of the GDR and France through the old communist/socialist networks. We have to win this or the world is seriously screwed for generations!!!!!
Can anyone say Dark Ages II
OK Rant off.
Bye
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 19:45:38 (ZULU)
danny mull <drm8194@hotmail.com>
akron, oh, - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 19:55:34 (ZULU)
I'm looking for a scope for my VS .308. I mostly use my rifle for target shooting (some club matches, nothing major) and also for deer hunting, (once a year). I'd like to have the capability to hit targets way out there (i.e. 500 - 1000 yd. range), just for my personal satisfaction.
1: I'm leaning towards a Vari XIII Leupold M1 or M3 3.5-10. Does anyone have a strong preference between those two? I have no experience with either, so your feedback will be welcomed.
2: What about the Springield Gov. models 4.5 - 14 with the illum. ret.? Does anyone have any experience with them? For the money, it seems like they have some good features but I've only seen a couple of reviews.
Thanks in advance for your insight.
corbett mortensen <rexhavoc3@cox.net>
omaha, ne, usa - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 21:44:59 (ZULU)
re: Dr. Ruth Westheimer
http://www.germanheritage.com/biographies/mtoz/westheimer.html
excerpt:
Ruth was 17 with no home, family or country when WW II ended . All she had was the hope of starting over again in a place where she would feel welcome. That place was supposed to be Palestine. But Palestine was not the land of milk and honey of which Ruth had heard. On May 14, 1948, Israel declared its independence. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Irak immediatley attacked the new nation, and once again Ruth's world collapsed. Ruth, dedicated to the building of a Jewish homeland, joined the Haganah and was trained as a sniper. On her twentieth birthday she had just finished up guard duty when an Arab shell exploded at her feet, seriously injuring her. Her recovery was slow, but she survived to walk again.
rod regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com>
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 22:39:22 (ZULU)
Check the archives.
The M1 vs M3 thing has been killed here. I and several others who regularly post here own both and there are benefits to each. Don't get wrapped around the axle about the 1 MOA elev adjustment on the M3. You will be right on (or darn close) at 100 or closer.
Leave the Springfield. The Leupold is the deal.
Get one with a Gen II reticle from Premier and you will be good to go to.
PJC
PJC <mywifeiscrazy2@yahoo.com>
Upstate, SC, US of A - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 22:49:07 (ZULU)
If anyone missed the sniper series on The History Channel, they are showing it again starting Tues. Feb 18 at 8.00 pm central time.
Take care!
Rob Opp
Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 23:38:05 (ZULU)
We have Dr. Ruth Westheimer: Doctor of sex, yet a trained military sniper.
And then we have Master Brian K. Sain: trained sniper, but also chick magnet and sex god in his own mind.
OK, what I propose is we commission the two of them to spawn, Preferably together and create an advancement in the human race. A whole new and improved genetic species. A new super human race. Think of the endless possibilities.
Just kidding Sir Sain. I'm sitting here board out of my mind with the in-laws and I have to read you exciting report about the Shot Show. Some times life isn't fair... Anyway thanks for the Shot Show update. Any new toys to get excited about? Anything worth going in debt over?
Oh BTW "Bolt for President". Your take on the current situation is right on!!!
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 00:25:26 (ZULU)
Out here
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Japan - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 01:50:38 (ZULU)
He hee. Yeah Johnny, my mind is a scary place. Never a dull moment.
Dr. Ruth might say: "Ja, zat Cajun Sharfshuetzen is vull ov Vullshitzen" ha.
Seriously dude, the show was great. Try and go next year. Vegas is even bigger and is cheaper to get to and stay anyway. Lots of folks told me that. Maybe you can make it next year.
SC guys were really good people.
Later man ...
PS: REF: "OK, what I propose is we commission the two of them to spawn, Preferably together and create an advancement in the human race."
Lemme know when you guys get the commission money together.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 01:58:04 (ZULU)
Don't think Loc-Tite would help much, they don't have the dovetail/inverted cone heads on the base windage screws & matching cuts on the lower ring section anymore. Those would lock the rear ring against movement. Thanks for the suggestion.
Frogs revisited- did that long list of French military "highlights" include getting thrown out of Mexico? They tried to install Emperor Maximillian -fight produced the legendary battle of Camerone for the Legion, Cinco de Mayo for the Mexicans. Gee- think of all the revolutionary movements the French have helped succeed.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 02:23:53 (ZULU)
ARMS came out with a new version of their S.I.R. system for 15/16s. Slimmer handguard, step down upper pic rail with another that hinges over it for the best in mount height adjustability (you can use either). I will be receiving one of the first 50 Military versions on the market next week. Plan to T/E it and do an article. Best feature is, it comes in anodized green (as well as black) to match the furniture on my green stocked, green hogue gripped, RRA M4.
My shit usually gets spray painted anyway but my M4 just rocks with the black/green scheme.
S&W came out with a 1911 clone. Only real difference is an external, slide mounted extractor. They also came out with a .50 cal., long barreled, 686 looking revolver with muzzle break. Damn cylinder looks like a new garbage can. Both seem like shitty ideas to me. Bet they don't sell many. What are they thinking?
Plenty of cool assed knives on the way from SOG, Al Mar, CRKT and Benchmade.
Some cool assed shooting glasses out there too. Cheap. UVEX GENESIS. Look and fit similiar to some Oakleys. Quick interchangeable, multi colored lenses. You can literally tie the frames in an overhand knot without the lenses in 'em. Fully adjustable temple pieces all the way around (Length and angle). Anywhere from 8 to 14 bucks. Outfitting my whole Team with 'em. Do a Google search on UVEX GENESIS for pics. Passed Mil VO Ballistic testing (I don't know what that is but it sounds good).
Can't go wrong with these fellas.
Beautiful double shotguns and custom stuff as to be expected.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 02:29:31 (ZULU)
De Oppresso Liber
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 02:36:18 (ZULU)
It was a good time. Plenty of neat stuff and as usual there were beautiful ladies all over the place but with Sain there we mortals didn't stand a chance.
John and Rod were working hard trolling for prizes to add to the table at the ASC#2. They scored big.
The hospitality gig that Marty and George put on was fun.
Oh well time to go back to work.....below zero here..again.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 09:50:06 (ZULU)
I see that Savage has released a new rifle in their "law enforcement" series- -Model 10FP-LE2B. Comes in .308,1 in 10 twist, heavy barrel (24"), the new adjustabe "accu trigger" and a McMillan stock, all for a suggsted list price of $912. Street price is probably lower.
I don't want to get into a new Savage vs Rem. battle, or start a new one, but am looking for some constructive advice on wether or not to purchase this rifle. The specs look good to me.
Is the 1 in 10 twist too slow, or too fast for a .308? I know thats a loaded question, because bullet weight and velocity come in to play, but assuming i'm looking for accuracy at longer ranges, I would probably be looking at loading 168's or 175s.
Thanks!
Good luck to our Armed Forces, where ever they may be.
rob ratvasky <rratvask@tricountyi.net>
mifflintown, pa, usa - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 16:05:45 (ZULU)
I agree, the Rem. vs. Win. vs. Sav. thing has been beat to death here. That new model Savage that you're talking about sounds really interesting! Do you know what model McMillan stock that they're using?
My experiences with the Savage have been very positive once the old trigger was replaced and that flexible thing that they called a stock was replaced. They seem to have very good barrels and shoot well especially for a low priced stick. With the new trigger and stock it looks like a sure winner.
If you can buy it for around $600 to $700Max it'll probably be a real good deal. If they are holding you up for more than that either wait for the prices to come down to earth, or buy a Stealth! Or even a PSS, but you'll have to keep your fingers crossed for a good one.
A big disadvantage with the Savage when compared to the Remington and a lesser degree to the Winchester is the lack of aftermarket goodies such as replacement bottom metal and a shortage of scope rails to choose from. That should be taken into consideration when choosing your rifle.
You'll be fine with a 1/10 twist especially if you're going to stick with the 168's and 175's. Even 150gr. bullets should work well - it's awfully hard to "overstabilize" a bullet, but it's relatively easy to under-spin one, such as a 175SMK out of a 1/14 barrel. But even that wouldn't surprise me anymore.
HTH, ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 17:01:05 (ZULU)
the way I read it, the LE-2B comes with a 26.5" barrel and a McMillan A3 stock. I don't see how you could go wrong.
I'm gonna have to admit,, I've been thinking about a Savage for a few months now. I'm in the planning stages of a stainless Long action with McMillan Prone. Changeable bolt heads and pre-chambered Pac-Nor barrels in 6.5x284/7-300WSM/308win Palma. I think a rifle like this would be a decent test bed. Now, I wouldn't expect this to be a hardened rifle, or the MOST accurate rifle in the safe, but a compromise to test calibers, and it'll allow me to test the feasibility of a new match chambers and twists without carrying 3 rifles all the time, or having to have them fitted to the rifle professionally.
For a strict match rifle, I'll still go with a dedicated, non switch barrel rifle, but for testing,,,, what if a chamber/twist sucks and you had it built?
SSS makes good triggers for them now, Badgers makes rails, McMillan is inletting all the tac/comp stocks for the Savage now, several companies are making pre-fit barrels and Sharp Shooter Suppy sells every thing you could ever want to build one. All you need is a headspace guage (or fired case) and a barrel nut wrench.(a little over simplified)
The actions I've handled weren't the smoothest things,, but for the money,,, why not give one a try??
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 17:04:03 (ZULU)
800 was total FOF. Did some shooting at 400 but not much after sitting in -2° weather and a 10 mph wind. The only thing I saw in 2 days was 1 cottontail. Boy those Vmax sure make the fur fly. (Ha)
Have any of you guys had cracks in the stock behind the bolt on your Stealth's? I noticed them while hunting this weekend. I have only shot about 75 round with it. The cracks are small but one of them is in a half circle ant it looks as if I could lose a small chunk of stock. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
JLU
Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 17:09:00 (ZULU)
Had some blokes over from N Ireland(catholics and protestants strangely enough, so they can get along together !!) hunting pigs this weekend, one venue got snowed out, and they didn't do too good at the other, noisy clothes, pissing near the bait and talking on the phone and fidgeting about, the only one who got a pig was a policeman.
JR, Peter Carr has a reflex and is real happy with it, i'll ask him what his change in impact is, I've got the husher and it drops POI by ... ?? what was it now, either 4 or 6" i can't remember off hand but the data is with the rifle. I guess how much depends on the weight of the can, the thickness of your barrel, length of the barrel and the leverage it puts on your barrel, ie, the husher hangs completely off the end of the bbl and the reflex sits back over the bbl. now the 4 or 6'is on the sporter barrel, on the 20"fat barrel i sem to remember that the change was minimal, infact i think it shot to POA, but if you rattled of a few rounds quickly the group was larger than without the can, if you let the can clear of gas/smoke and cool, it put them in the same place. there must be a scientific formula for this some where???
Joe, ref the froggies, Get Steve(bisley tiger) to send you the email he sent me with the attachment of the froggy army magazine, its hillereouse !!! infact Steve, send it to every one here, that is to good for all not to see !!!
What was said about the Euro V the Dollar, i'd go along with that, thats what all this German French treaty pally pally shit is about, they have a domination wish.
Anybody know why there are rows of trees planted along the sides of the roads through France and into Germany? its so the Brit and American servicemen can march in the shade on thier way to bale the europeans out yet again.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 17:28:59 (ZULU)
One of the members at my club had a PSS about three years ago that had a H-S stock that was begining to crack as you described. I recommended that he call Janet Thompson at H-S and ask her opinion. Janet asked him to send his stock to her, and in less than two weeks a brand new stock was in his hot little hands. No trouble since!
Alas, I understand that Janet has left the company, and IMHO it's their loss. She was great! Possibly, JR could suggest a person to help you at H-S, I have no idea who's handling their CR now.
Chris,
Your Savage switch barrel idea has my gears turning, especially since they're now using a A3 stock. An economical way to test for several calibers with one basic platform, and switching barrels appears to be pretty easy on the Savage since I do that with great sucess on AR-15's all the time.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 22:04:20 (ZULU)
check this thread out on www.longrangehunting.com. Click on my name.
The guys on SnipersHide also like the Savages, but they tweek them a bit differently.
Wonder where Paul Cockerham is,,,, He's a dedicated Savage shooter,,, bet he could shed some light on this....
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 23:28:13 (ZULU)
I have a 10FP. They are good rifles to get started with. I shoot both 168 SMK and 175 SMK with good accuracy. Mine tends to like the 175 a little better but both are good. The new ones have a new type trigger.
The barrels are interchangable on them, that's what the funky barrel nut is for. You have to make sure of bolt length and mag length, you can't use long cartridges on a short action. You will need a barrel wrench,barrel vise, bolt heads(or complete bolt)and gauges.
Midway has a set-up that allows barrel swaps for do-it-yourselfers. They also have 18 different caliber barrels(Adams) available, so you don't have to use factory barrels. Check Guns&Ammo Dec.2002 "Presto-Chango". I believe this would also work with custom made barrels.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 03:26:33 (ZULU)
War hero thwarted Nazi atomic bomb plans
CanWest News Service
Friday, February 14, 2003
Mr. Skinnarland, who died in Toronto, was pivotal in one of the war's greatest sabotage operations.
Norwegian-born Einar Skinnarland, who 60 years ago this month helped turn the tide of the Second World War by thwarting Nazi plans to build an atomic bomb, has died at the age of 84.
The efforts of Mr. Skinnarland and his colleagues to blow up material needed to produce atomic weapons formed the basis of the film The Heroes of Telemark.
Mr. Skinnarland was an engineer at the Vemork hydroelectric plant that was able to produce small quantities of heavy water needed for plutonium production.
According to war historian Stephen Stratford, British intelligence learned in 1940, shortly after the Nazi occupation of Norway, that the Vemork plant, west of Oslo, had been ordered to increase heavy water production to nearly 1,400 kilograms a year. By January, 1942, that number had increased to more than 4,500 kilograms a year.
During a holiday in March, 1942, Mr. Skinnarland escaped Norway and, after helping to hijack a coastal steamer, made his way to Aberdeen, Scotland. Mr. Skinnarland gave British intelligence detailed information on the Vemork plant and the Nazi guarding system.
Mr. Stratford's British military Web site says Mr. Skinnarland agreed to return to Vemork as a guide for a sabotage mission, and he was subsequently dropped over the Hardanger Vidda mountains on March 28, 1942.
Mr. Skinnarland quickly became close friends with the chief engineer of the plant and was able to obtain vital information to sabotage operations.
The first mission to paralyze the plant ended in disaster after two gliders carrying British Royal Engineers crashed in poor weather while attempting to land near the plant and make contact with Mr. Skinnarland.
A second attempt by a six-man team from the Norwegian Special Operations Executive in February, 1943, paralyzed the plant. It is still regarded as one of the greatest sabotage operations of the Second World War.
In the summer of 1943, Mr. Skinnarland learned the Vemork plant had restarted production of heavy water. The U.S. Air Force launched a bombing raid but was unable to harm the plant, protected under seven concrete floors.
Still, Norwegian technicians were able to convince German officials the plant was no longer operational.
In 1944, Mr. Skinnarland was told by the British the plant was to be moved to Germany with the stocks of heavy water. Assisted by Knut Haukelid, a Norwegian operative, he learned the shipment was to happen via ferry boat.
Along with other Norwegian resistance agents, Mr. Haukelid strapped explosive charges to the ferry, which blew up and sank in 300-metre-deep water in Lake Tinnsjo in February, 1944.
Mr. Skinnarland emigrated to the United States shortly after the war, moving to Toronto in 1965 to take a job with a construction firm.
He died of a brain hemorrhage in Toronto on Dec. 5, 2002. He is survived by his wife, the former Trudi Gans, born in Fairview, Alta., five children, six grandchildren and his sister, Solveig.
(Ottawa Citizen)
TorF <torf@aftenposten.no>
Oslo, Norway - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 08:37:54 (ZULU)
Pete L- Gaby and I had talked about getting over there to visit her family in April but with all the hate and discontent going on between the good ole USA and the Fatherland we are probably going to postpone. I guess I'll owe you the first round a little longer. It is too bad about the problems. I've always been treated great in Germany and in France. I really like Paris (ummm food)and the north coast (they seem to remember a little better what our two country's did for them up there).
JLU-I had a similar cracking problem on the nose of one of my stocks. H&S had me send it to them and I had a new one ASAP. That was a few months ago. It shouldn't be a problem to get a new one, they were johnny on the spot, no questions asked.
Rob R- Savage rifles-My 110FP is my Frankenstien gun. Anything I want to just try or do to a rifle I do to this rifle before any other. I have abused it like nobody's business and it keeps soldiering on and is actually shooting better than ever. Now that they have gone to a real stock, instead of the limp noodle they had been using, I think it's going to open a lot more doors for them. I wouldn't hesitate to get that latest version.
Tonight I got to work and had a nice suprise. All the replacement parts I wanted ordered to fix up our M16's had actaully been ordered and arrived...just when you give up on the supply guy he comes through...go figure ! I love opening a big box full of FA parts sitting around fixing guns =) I did replace all our extractor springs with the enhanced springs produced by Ken Elmore at SAW. These have really been the magic medicine for the black guns. I even put them in all my AR's. I highly recommend them for your consideration.
New math:
1500 rounds of loose 7.62x39 + 1 wooden ChiCom ammo crate with a loose bottom = 30 minutes of digging around in the mud to find all the rounds.
Take it easy all,
Joe S.
Joe S. <spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, CA, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 13:14:10 (ZULU)
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 14:46:59 (ZULU)
It seems there was an RI (Ranger Instructor) that was looking to make a little extra money between classes. After spending his last wedding anniversary neck deep in the swamps with Ranger students, he was determined to do something extra special for his wife this year.
Setting up a stand along the coast near Ft. Walton Beach, he was thrilled when a tourist walking by stopped to admire one of his alligator teeth necklaces.
When the tourist exclaimed that pearl necklaces down the street were less than half the price of his necklaces, he replied, "Lady, anyone can open an oyster."
Hoooah!
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 14:46:59 (ZULU)
Back from Shot Show. Had damm fine time. Met lots of great guys. Really pissed because no matter where I went I missed Col. Chandler. Maybe next year. That damm Kevin had me laughing all the time. Brian insane, well he is just that and good to go at the same time. Another one of the good guys.
Met a bunch of you and did not find one of you I did not instantly like.
Only true thing that seemed wrong was looking at Sage Int's obvious to me a copy of Mike Rocks modified M14. I said to the guy at Sage that it looked like the same rifle. His reply was "Only thing different is we have a one pice stock" I first saw the prototype last year from Mike and know he poured his heart and soul into the design. I hate it when others just tag along and copy. I buy from original guy. The one who thought it up. The one who knows why it works not the knock off guys. Just my opinion.
Hope everyone got home,fast and safe.
Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 16:37:32 (ZULU)
Dinger <ding556@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 17:41:31 (ZULU)
I regret to hear that someone f$%&## as)%@@@ copied Mike Rocks M14. I was at his shop a few months ago. Mike looked like a proud father showing off his first born while handing me his redesigned M14...
Like you said. I will stick to guy with the original idea and guts to make a new product.
I think we should start boycotting people like this. Make it perfectly clear that this will not be tolerated. Maybe start a page on this website or another site we can list these type of aggressions.
Mike Rock your reputation/products speak for themselves.
RANT MODE OFF.
bryan
bryan <bherman699@aol.com>
CA, - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 18:46:25 (ZULU)
Dinger <ding556@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 20:28:14 (ZULU)
Also having trouble keeping it from shooting loose, if you have any thoughts on that.
Thanks all.
Alexander Forbes <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 20:40:40 (ZULU)
Guys, forgive my ignorance here but what are we talking about? What type of configuration or modifications to this weapon have been made? Is this a variant of a DMR?
Confused Again, or Still...
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 20:44:08 (ZULU)
If you paid by credit card, file a dispute with the card company - ASAP. As much as I don't like credit cards, this is one real benefit to them. They can - and do - withold payment to the seller until the dispute is resolved. It is the reason I shy away from sellers who refuse to take plastic, or PayPal. I'll pay the 2% surcharge for plastic, since it is relatively cheap insurance.
Hope you get this cleared up to your satisfaction ASAP.
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
- Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 21:21:37 (ZULU)
Pete L. - "kebab shop with rusty roof", that ain't code! got that straight away (maybe its a Brit thing??) like to hear the story though.
Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 21:41:26 (ZULU)
AAA Binos-if'n you paid through the mail, go to the Postal Inspectors at the Post Office. They take a real dim view of Postal Fraud. Paying by credit card can be a REAL advantage. I had a dispute some years back with a firm and after being unhappy with their "customer service" wrote a whine to MasterCard. MasterCard froze their account-didn't let them process any charges or receive funds- producing amazing customer satisfaction in short order.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 00:47:06 (ZULU)
Leupold makes the scope for the SPR..It's a 2.5x8 with side focus, turrets like the 3.5x10LR M3. Newest ones have illum. reticle. Elevation turret etched for 62gr bullet.
Good to see you all at SHOT.
outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Safely ensconced in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 02:24:03 (ZULU)
http://www.brokennewz.com/worldnews/frenchgermanagain.asp
Semper Fi,
Wuzz
Wuzzagrunt <t1_of_2@hotmail.com>
NY, NY, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 02:41:18 (ZULU)
Alexander
Alexander <altona@thegrid.net>
Garnerville, Nevada, - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 03:03:37 (ZULU)
MJ <montereyjack@ix.netcom.com>
monterey by the bay, Ca, USofA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 04:23:53 (ZULU)
IMHO you'll never get a single point scope mount to hold a reliable zero on an M1A. Two point mounts have been made to work, and three point mounts are even better. If yours is aluminum and not steel you've got even more strikes against you. You can't skimp here! Check out the archives for details.
I've had three of these rifles (still have two) and have friends who scope theirs as well. I can tell you from experience that the very expensive and almost impossible to find BPT (Brookfield) mount and its near twin the Smith Enterprises mount will work without a hitch. The ARMS is also excellent, but you may have some scope mounting issues (depending on what you're using) and it may be too low for a good iron sight picture. Also, you won't get a proper cheek weld without some kind of addition to the comb of the standard style stock, with any scope-mount combination.
HTH, ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 05:32:49 (ZULU)
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1045510848273&p=1012571727088
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 06:04:02 (ZULU)
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordian".
and in the news this morning:
Subject: The French have come through!
PARIS-In a stunning reversal of policy, French President Jacques Chirac
announced today that the French government will be supporting the 'War on
Terror' after all.
Five hundred soldiers from the elite Battalion du Specialistes
d'Abandonnement (Surrender Specialists) of France's vaunted Armees de la
Terre are preparing for movement to Iraq, where they will advise the Iraqi
Republican Guards on the protocol of their upcoming surrender to American
Armed Forces.
"It is important to be overbearingly haughty and insufferable when
surrendering," said Colonel Philippe Marie-Jeane Yves-Montand Gauloise du
Petite Pommes, commanding officer of the elite Surrender Specialists, who
has personally surrendered in countless battles dating back to Dien Bien Phu
in 1954. "We French are world masters at surrendering, n'est c'est pas? Not
like you arrogant Americans, who never surrender. Ha! I spit on your
American victories!"
President Chirac also announced that his government will be sending 3,000
advisors from the elite Force du Collaborateurs Francaise to assist the
Iraqis in avidly collaborating with the Americans, while pretending to be
part of a non-existent resistance movement.
OK. Joe S, don't wory about the anti US crap, its all the out of work dreadlocked long haired druggie commies that are protesting any way.
This Iraq thing is about sorting out the short sighted mistakes made by former governments, Brit, US, Froggy and German and a bunch of others, this needs done before its to late and the damn frogs and jerries are to pussy to get on and do it.
Bisley T, oh no, my code is broken, you don't work at Bletchley park do ya??
On a legal course today, works council stuff, makes a change i guess. Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 07:50:55 (ZULU)
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordian".
and in the news this morning:
Subject: The French have come through!
PARIS-In a stunning reversal of policy, French President Jacques Chirac
announced today that the French government will be supporting the 'War on
Terror' after all.
Five hundred soldiers from the elite Battalion du Specialistes
d'Abandonnement (Surrender Specialists) of France's vaunted Armees de la
Terre are preparing for movement to Iraq, where they will advise the Iraqi
Republican Guards on the protocol of their upcoming surrender to American
Armed Forces.
"It is important to be overbearingly haughty and insufferable when
surrendering," said Colonel Philippe Marie-Jeane Yves-Montand Gauloise du
Petite Pommes, commanding officer of the elite Surrender Specialists, who
has personally surrendered in countless battles dating back to Dien Bien Phu
in 1954. "We French are world masters at surrendering, n'est c'est pas? Not
like you arrogant Americans, who never surrender. Ha! I spit on your
American victories!"
President Chirac also announced that his government will be sending 3,000
advisors from the elite Force du Collaborateurs Francaise to assist the
Iraqis in avidly collaborating with the Americans, while pretending to be
part of a non-existent resistance movement.
OK. Joe S, don't wory about the anti US crap, its all the out of work dreadlocked long haired druggie commies that are protesting any way.
This Iraq thing is about sorting out the short sighted mistakes made by former governments, Brit, US, Froggy and German and a bunch of others, this needs done before its to late and the damn frogs and jerries are to pussy to get on and do it.
Bisley T, oh no, my code is broken, you don't work at Bletchley park do ya??
On a legal course today, works council stuff, makes a change i guess. Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 07:51:17 (ZULU)
Even with the double tap your post was funny as hell! This whole thing reminds me of my grandfather who was wounded at Omaha beach. He was a very stoic man, and never really complained. He did not care for the French much.... He did end up sharing many interesting stories with me before he passed away at the age of 86.
(unrelated tangent, but sort of French related..)
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 08:10:17 (ZULU)
On another note, I see France is making a habit of standing by despotic leaders. Mugabe had a warm welcome in Paris today.
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 13:00:05 (ZULU)
The complete quote (as I heard it): "Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you leave behind is a lot of useless, noisy baggage."
-Jed Babbin, former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense
Semper Fi,
Wuzz
Wuzzagrunt <t1_of_2@hotmail.com>
NY, NY, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 16:50:34 (ZULU)
sorry about the double tap, damn work puter.
Deaf Jon, now that was dumb, i remember finding out exactly how loud a boss system is when shooting at a crow out of a toyota pick up, damn !! didn't have the muzzle far enough out the window..
right I'm getting nagged about goint to the pub, so here goes Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 17:11:26 (ZULU)
1. Certain countries dont want us to invade Iraq
2. Certain countries dont want us to find any banned weapons in Iraq
3. Certain countries are always pissed because we sell arms to more Nato countries than they do. They have advanced technologies but not as advanced as ours.
4. Certain countries sell weapons all over the world to anyone they can.
5.Countries that can buy the best arms do.
6. Iraq has new technologies that came from countries that have advanced technologies.
7. Iraq can not buy legitimate technologies from countries that follow the rules.
8. Certain countries dont sell much military hardware if they follow the rules.
9. Certain countries dont want us to know whats in Iraq.
10. If we invaded Iraq we would know who has been selling them technology against the rules.
Now in ost investigations I would look to:
1. Who gains from selling to Iraq, because they are seconds string in arms industry?
2. Who gets a smack if the world finds out they are selling to Iraq, against the rules?
3. Who has nothing to gain if we invade Iraq?
4. Who has everything to lose if we invade Iraq?
5. Who is attempting to block our invading Iraq?
Well the answer to that will give you the Who What Why and Where?
Peter you cracked me up.
Undude/Mike
MikeMIller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 17:31:37 (ZULU)
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 17:43:42 (ZULU)
Alan, do you know if the Smith Enterprises scope mount has any trouble fitting non-US receivers? I seemed to have lucked out with one of the rare good FedOrd receivers (though to be fair, it has all USGI parts), and I really hope I don't have to swap out my rifle to get a scope mount to fit.
To anyone: how did the original one-point mounts work?
Deaf Jon: Count yourself lucky. I watched someone blow out his truck's windshield trying that stunt. Pricey sort of education for him. Pretty funny for the rest of us, though.
Treehugger
Treehugger (A.Forbes) <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 19:04:52 (ZULU)
One of the machinists has a passion for Mugabe, right between the crosshairs. Rhodesian bhoy he is.. F'n France...Pete, lead me away from the Unique stand when we're at IWA, I may end up in gaol...
Is there a deborah@aol.com here? didn't know the c&%t so I deleted their message instead of reading it. Can't be too careful these days..
'lito, where are ya..I gotsa question about chronys for ya if ya got a minute. Youse been diggin' out as well?
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 19:39:14 (ZULU)
JR: Regarding the Sunnis and Shi'ai (sorry, it involves letters we just don't have in our alphabet, and this program doesn't let me type in Arabic). Iraq invaded Iran on your basic, everyday powerplay; it was no more of a religious crusade than the USSR taking Czechoslovakia was a crusade for the liberation of the workers. The US encouraged Iraq, mostly bcause we were pissed at the Iranians for throwing us --and our oil interests-- out. Iran, rather understandably, fought back, fighting Iraq to a standstill in a truly ghastly campaign with atrocities committed on both sides. Since the ceasfire, Iran and Iraq have been at odds because Saddam has been busy slaughtering the Shi'ai minority in the south (most Iranians are Shi'ai, Saddam is a Sunni). *This* is the only part that's all about religion. Last I checked, however, Iran isn't out to convert by the sword. That's just not part of Islam's game. They might not like you --and may even kill you-- if you're not Muslim, but it isn't "convert or die". They know that that kind of faith is about as reliable as information gained under torture. And no, we're not in Saudi because it's the center of Islam, we're in Saudi because it has oil, because it has a ruling family in a very precarious position of power and is therefore tractible, and because it is central to the region. However, Saudi is also the powerbase for the ultra-conservative Wahhabi sect of Sunni Islam. To take Iraq would give us our own oil fields, a base of operations central to the region, and a tractible ally, without the baggage of Islamist extremism.
Remember also that the IRANIANS ARE NOT ARABS. Iranians are PERSIANS, and culturally very, very different. To lump them all in together is to say "Boar? Antelope? Hell, four legs and fur, I don't see why we can't stalk them the same way." Know what --or who-- you're stalking. I'm not saying they're any nicer, but Iranians have entirely different goals in that region than Iraqis. (Sorry, but my family has worked in Iran since the '30s. I haven't yet been there, but I grew up with first-hand tales around the dinner table.)
Undude/Mike: Please remember when using your investigative brain to consider the possibility that someone may want to go into a country to remove evidence, or to plant it, as well as to find it. Yes, the French will sell their grannies for a dime --if they can't find a higher bidder. Hell, they sold Israel its nuclear program, I won't bet that they haven't sold anything to Saddam. However, it is well known that the US sold Saddam most of his biological and chemical weapons, advised him how to use them, and stood by while he used them on his own people and, in the war against Iran, in our interests. There's a good chance we're going in there to cover our own asses.
Gotta do something about the situation, but it's bad all around. No good answers, either militarily or politically.
Sorry 'bout the counter-rant, but there were some issues sneaking up in the blind spots. Bad information and ignorance breed predictably short-sighted strategies. It would suck for any of us to get so carried away we didn't think before we pulled the trigger.
Treehugger
Treehugger (A.Forbes) <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 21:00:01 (ZULU)
Rod
Rod Hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 22:04:07 (ZULU)
"19 German, 10 British, four Swiss and two French concerns, as well as three companies from the Netherlands, Austria and the United States that supplied materials allegedly used in the Iraqi chemical weapons program through the 1980s."
“The list in Iraq's 1998/current chemical weapons declaration contains 31 "major suppliers", 14 from Germany. The 1996/current nuclear suppliers list has 62 company names on it, 33 from Germany. As Iraq claims that since 1991 it has not engaged in WMD production, the lists name no post-Gulf War suppliers.”
“The newspaper - believed to be the first to have access to the top-secret dossier - has written that the Iraqi declaration contains the names of 80 German firms, research laboratories and people, who are said to have helped Iraq develop its weapons program.”
These are just excerpts from articles I will be glad to provide to you if you like. MAYBE Germany and France DON'T want us to go in BECAUSE of what we will find!
drmarc
drmarc <drmarc@se-tel.com>
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 22:35:46 (ZULU)
I still can't respond to your emails about the SC rifle! Your server is rejecting my mail.
Am I the only one having a problem?
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 22:50:37 (ZULU)
The Smith mount, besides fitting the Springfield and the Smitn Ent. receivers will also fit the Chinese M-14S receivers made by Polytech and Norinco. I know this for a fact, been there - done that!
I see no reason why it won't fit yours. Give Smith a phone call to be sure. Following their instructions explicitly is the key to make their mounts work. My advice - mock it up the first time without snugging anything down. This will give you a feel for how it should work.
As far as the single-point mounts, they never worked very well. The ones that I'm familiar with used a large knurled thumbscrew that fit the threaded hole on the left side of the receiver (originally intended for a grenade launcher sight) and to raised ribs that keyed into female slots or grooves that were machined into the side of the receiver at the mounting hole, sort of an upside-down 'T'.
They kept loosening up in the field, and the shooters kept buggering up the knurled screw with pliers in an effort to keep it tight. Eventually, they filed or milled flats into two sides of the head of the thumbscrew to facilitate using a wrench to snug the thing up. They even resorted to welding the mount in place on the receiver in an attempt to keep it secured.
Now, with some decent mounts available, things are not nearly as bad as they used to be, but they still require caution when installing and periodic check-ups and maintenence in the field. One of the many reasons that the operators dig the SR-25 platform!
HTH, ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 23:16:28 (ZULU)
I remember watching the Rugby World Championship a few years ago. The logo on the French team uniforms was a chicken. I guess that explains it all.
Sharpshooters Supply;
Look at varminthunters.com and go to the link.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 23:48:29 (ZULU)
Howdy! I just got caught up on the archives, and incidently, just got home. I have two more CONUS TDYs yet, and then the OCONUS gig. My replacement is inbound (yiiihaaaa).
Bolt,
I'll be in the Bragg area last week of March--you near there? If we can swing it, I'd be honored to buy you a cold one!
Neil Boortz posted that French Army Mag parody today--it is funny as hell.
For those of you wanting to get on with it in Iraq--look at it this way--I need the time to get there! Heheh. The trick is, once we go, securing the oil fields before they go boom while simultaneously decapitating any formation that poses a threat to the civies in-country. If we pull A and B off; we'll be awwwwright!
It's good to be home--if only for a few weeks...
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 00:49:27 (ZULU)
drmarc: Thanks for the info, and well presented. I'd love to see the complete version, but it looks as though my hypothesis stands refuted, as the scientists say. 'Course I'm always skeptical of "top-secret dossiers" conveniently leaked to the press, but that's the conspiracy theorist in me. Please buzz the reports my way, if you get the chance.
JR: Easy on! I wasn't trying to get nasty or say you don't know what you're talking about. I certainly wouldn't assume you were a "pud" with no experience. Yes, to religion is mixed up in everything in that part of the world, no question. And no, the Sunnis don't think too highly of the Shi'ai, and vice-versa. (Fascinating story behind that conflict, too, if you ever want to look it up.) As for Iran's expansionism, it isn't a patch on either Iraq's or Israel's, and if you can find me a nation in that part of the world that *isn't* expansionist, looking at the situation over the last fifty years, I'll buy you a box of your favorite ammo.
Your assessment of Iraq is also dead-on, by my research. Saddam is bad news, but he's bad news in a political power-hungry sort of way, not in a religious fervor. This is one reason why the whole "allied with AlQaeda" story just doesn't fly; Saddam doesn't like bin Laden because he doesn't like the threat the religious extremists pose his (relatively) secular tyranny. As for my talking about two different conflicts, you're right, and I apologise for confusing the issue. Our switching sides has completely undermined our credibiity in that region, but that wasn't the point I was then trying to make. Thanks for the catch.
That aside, do I think Iran is the largest possible threat on the screen over there? Not a chance. Without going into the whole Israeli/Palestinian conflict, I'd say the title of biggest threat goes to Saudi. They have an unstable government dependant equally on foreign (infidel) money and the whim of the increasingly extremist Wahhabi sect. Torn between two these two diametrically opposite paradigms, we are looking at a very high probability of regime collapse and rapidly spreading regional instability. The Wahhabis are far less tolerant than any sect of the Shi'ai --take note that all of the 9/11 hijackers were Wahhabis, many from Saudi, while none were Shi'ai or from Iran-- and they are *far* better funded than any group allied in any way to the Shi'ai regime in Iran. Saudi's population is young, rapidly expanding, discontented, and universally dependant on a crumbling, unstable state welfare system. The imams have the power to whip the populace into a frenzy, but the royal house does not have the socio-moral integrity or the financial resources to calm it. This young generation of impending fanatics has little access to free media, in particular the internet, which is controlled to a degree rivaled only by China; Iran has largely uncensored (except for porn, poor devils) access to the internet. We all know that a young, discontented population and the suppression of information is an explosive combination, and the Saudis are sitting on a powder keg.
Iran, by contrast, has lately (last 15 years) been positively reticent. I think smoking a couple of their oil rigs/missile platforms cooled off their anti-American ardour. They make a lot of noise, and they cheer on a lot of anti-Israeli groups, but they're not a tenth as dangerous as the Saudi Wahhabis. IMHO, lumping them into the "axis of evil" was an error. NK and Iraq, sure, I guess they qualify as being as "evil" as anybody else out there, but I could think of a few far better candidates for the third slot.
Whoops! Counter-ranting again. Sorry.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 01:45:06 (ZULU)
But, just wanted to pass a "Little" police humor,
POLICE # 1
While taking a routine vandalism report at an
elementary school, I was interrupted by a little girl about
six years old. Looking up and down at my uniform, she
asked, "Are you a cop?" "Yes," I answered and continued
writing the report. "My mother said if I ever needed help I
should ask the police. Is that right?" "Yes, that's right,"
I told her. "Well, then," she said as she extended her foot
toward me, "would you please tie my shoe?"
POLICE # 2
It was the end of the day when I parked my
police van in front of the station. As I gathered my
equipment, my K-9 partner, Jake, was barking, and I saw a
little boy staring in at me. "Is that a dog you got back
there?" he asked. "It sure is," I replied. Puzzled, the boy
looked at me and then towards the back of the van. Finally
he said, What'd he do?
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 03:14:21 (ZULU)
The Smith mount is a three point model. The center grenade launcher screw hole is used, but the mounting screw goes through an eccentric bushing that indexes with an enlarged hole in the mount itself to allow the user to have both latitude as to the dead center of the mount to threaded hole location and the inclination of the mount itself (to a small degree). This allows the user to level the scope mounting surface in relationship to the bore axis, and to put a little foward cant on the scope if it needs some to reach one thousand yards (ex. in the case of the Leupold VariX III 3.5-10 LR M3). The mount uses the horizontal groove in the receiver, but not the verticle one in order to facilitate this feature.
This mount also uses the clip slot adapter dovetail of the original rifle, employing a threaded dovetail replacement piece and a hex socket screw to pull the rear of the mount down against the clipslot adapter bridge. In the front section, there is another hexsocket screw that is threaded vertically through the scopemount and is tightened against the top of the front reciever ring in order to put tension on the mount, rendering it immoveable if properly installed. Just remember to recheck the torque on the mounting screws after the first ten to teenty shots. The M14 type rifles have a "funny" recoil due to the gas operation, and put different recoil forces to work on this rifle.
To answer your question about the SR-25, it is a .308 version of the AR-15 design and looks just like a scaled-up version of our main infantry rifle. It is produced by Knight's Armament of Vero Beach, FL,whom I believe hold the rights to the Stoner name. It is very similar in appearance to Armalite's AR-10. Our SF guys have been using a specially built (to their specs) version of the SR-25 for awhile with very good feedback coming home. These "new generation" gas guns offer many advantages over the old M14 platform, reliability and lack of extensive maintenance being just two of them.
HTH, ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 05:03:02 (ZULU)
WE, that is a colourfull collection of many countries helped Saddam in his race for leadershipb and cause the 1st Gulf war, especialy us brits, now the past policies of governments of several (if not all) leave much to be desired, we stopped short in Gulf 1 because leaving Saddam in power gave us a reason to have a strong military presence in the region,(despite massive uprisings by the Iraqi people wanting rid of Saddam at the time) we are protecting the poor saudies and every one else, despite the fact that they don't realy want us there. Now of couurse all these governments took advantage of the situation, the US and the Brits selling arms to Saudi and Kuwait etc, and the Froggy and Jerry selling technology to Iraq, a cosy situation, exept for the fact Saddam is a beer short of a six pack, he is now a seriouse threat, and has to be taken out, we have to sort out the situation in the Gulf that we helped cause, none of these past Governments is without fault, they all poured oil on the fire and pocketed the rich pickings, it is the responsibility of todays governments to ensure that the shit is shoveled up before it becomes a massive problem and we all step in it, unfortunately, Froggy land and Kraut land are not shapeing upto thier responsibilities.
Have you looked at it from that angle..
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 08:04:01 (ZULU)
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 13:47:19 (ZULU)
Laughed out loud at the dog in the back.
I confronted a crook once about his whereabouts. Swore to God he wasn't even in Port Arthur when the crime occurred.
"Honest Detective, I was in Pepiscola Beach, Florida". he hee.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 13:48:24 (ZULU)
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 13:51:48 (ZULU)
Both tendencies are disadvantages when it comes to foreign policy and we need to fix that.
To play on what BRogers wrote, I think we simply need to become more selfish and unpredictable when it comes to our dealings with foreign threats...Pandora's box if you will....
Simply put....we want your oil or natural resources or something else... just give us a good moral excuse to come take it...and NO, we don't give a crap what France thinks...I believe we have had quite enough talk from France...they continue to miss 60 years worth of good opportunities to just shut up.
Yep, that's us...bloodthirsty capitalist scum... now shut up and get back in your hole while we and our children live conspicuous, fruitful and happy lives.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 14:25:16 (ZULU)
I haven't been keeping up with the roster lately just read the post about the 300 WM being shot OUT OF THE VEHICLE. Figgured I would let you all know a real man (real dumb and real tired man) fires with all the window up. The ashtry was given a proper burial.
Dirty Steve, Out
Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, US of A - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 14:48:14 (ZULU)
Was hunting yotes one day with my normal parder and his 20 ish age son. The young fella was inexperienced but enthusiastic. His dad borrowed my 220 Swift since he'd only brought one gun from where they live. (the one with the hairy trigger of course). I cautioned but the kid was a leftie and the weather was cold and he was not particularly tough to it. We came over a hill and being on the outside passenger side of the Suburban I baled out and to take a running shot at a retreating dog. He made it over the hill and my pard yelled for me to get back in. Ole Yote bait has been to a lot of these deals and just slammed the door and hollered go get him!
The Burban was bouncing toward the top of the hill when a muffled boom ensued and dust came pouring out the half down windows. 2 Deafened Dog hunters bailed out one of each door as the burb slid to a stop. The hole in the transmission was the worst of the damage and a louder than normal due to the condition of the ears,lecture about working a rifle with gloves on was the best entertainment. The real cause was a left handed shooter trying to chamber a round with his right hand while a gloved hand was near a hair trigger. I try not to loan a rifle to somebody not familiar with it but shix happens.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 16:54:02 (ZULU)
Sorry bout all that, was not in my normal pleasant mood and went beyond the bounds..Maybe it was the thought of being countered by a man nicknamed treehugger...ha, too many lumberjacks in my family ..Wrong site to post that kinda stuff anyway. Group, feel free to roll up the newspapers...
out
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 17:03:45 (ZULU)
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 17:39:23 (ZULU)
My wife calls me up and says "turn to the history channel." The show was "SF: The Untold Stories." This one about "Tanks in the Wire." (Lang Vei just west of Kaison) Wife then says "isn't that the guy you all bought the bass boat for?" Answer, "yeah..."
Wife: "That must suck to see your buds on the 'history channel' all the damn time."
She is right on with that one...The "History" Channel fer chrissakes! Why don't they call it "contemporary events channel" or something????
Frankie Dooms, CSM (Ret). I learned a helluva lot from him, and it was good to see him again, if only through a screen. I hope he continues to catch bass, wherever he is now...Thanks dude, for the knowledge that you imparted...a few of us young'uns were listening!!!
We lost a goldmine of experience when the Vietnam Vets retired on us. Hell, they experienced war. Now, we have "vets" that have only (marginally) experienced "battle." If I have to explain the difference (or even argue)--then the point is forever lost to you. But for anyone who's been there--our experiences that we are passing down now are based on single event engagements--was it a damn good tactic or just dumb luck? The next firefight never came for validation. Look at the six-month rotations in A'stan. Figure it out, then leave. Next! Good luck and happy huntin'...geez. We never learn. But we have "combat patches" to prove it. Whatever "it" is...somehow "it" doesn't measure up to those "War" vets. FWIW.
Bitter Joe (Vinegar was already in use. LOL)
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 18:02:17 (ZULU)
Alan said "similar in appearance to the AR-10..." Yep, right up to but not including the price tag. The SR25 is made by some pretty proud folks. If I had the bent to get one of these Stoner-clones, I'd go with Armalite's. And have George work it, and buy a Gen II M3, and have enough left over to do it all again...
But who am I to talk? I own an M1A (M21) for no other reason than to have something I once used in uniform.
BTW-- I figure anyone coming here callin' hisself "treehugger" has gotta be one bad-ass dude. Kinda like Johny Cash, a boy named Sue...just don't ruin this image by eatin' granola or wearing Berkenstocks' around here, OK?
Peace,
Joe M.
(Bawwwwhawwhaw...peace is a lot like unemployment....)
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 18:25:23 (ZULU)
Good posts on the present situation in the Middle East. There isn't a "correct" answer to the issues you have raised. Even my very limited knowledge of the region is enough to make a reasonable determination that the history is way to complex to be black and white. That means your both right so shake hands and drive on. Oil/Money and Religion are both powerful motivators throughout the region. The operative word being POWER. While it is important to understand the historical context when formulating our foriegn policy I think you would both agree that we don't need to pinpoint the causes in order to justify dismanteling the current Iraqi government. In my opinion, commiting US combat troops should be based on one thing: our own national interests. They may at times be "selfish" but that need not make them immoral or unpredictable. It is in our national interest to safeguard the Iraqi oil fields. It is in our national interest to contain the further proliferation of WMDs. It is in our national interest to foster the establishment of a democratic government in Iraq (I don't know if this is a current objective or if a true democracy is even feasable amongst the Shiaittes (sp?) the Sunni and the Kurds). While it would be nice to go in with the political support of a UN resolution and ALL of our NATO "allies" these are just window dressing. Neither is required under our Constitution and my prediction is that our troops will be rolling through the desert sands of Iraq before the curtains are hung. Good luck to any of you headed into the breach.
Paul Martoccia <pmartoc@sprynet.com>
NJ, USA - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 18:46:44 (ZULU)
Just a link re-affirming what we believe:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31137
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 19:04:44 (ZULU)
You get my email the other day about the confirmation of the tickets and further pleas for assistance for my poor mate's SSG? Or you just avoiding me knowing that Wales is going to kick England's arse at the weekend ;-)
Jon
Jon Bearsdley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 21:01:12 (ZULU)
Pete L cannot respond to you about the SSG, because, like me, he is too busy laughing at your joke about the Welsh beating the English at the six nations.
Ha!
Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 21:26:33 (ZULU)
Marc: Great links you sent me. Sounds like the Germans have just a wee bit of expaining to do. I'm not entirely sold that they're stalling the war to cover things up --the cat's already out of the bag-- but I think they should be asked some very hard questions about the integrity of their commercial ethics.
JR: No apology necessary. It's a loaded topic, and I can see why my 'name' bugged you. If it makes you feel any better, it's not just because I'm one of the more "liberal" shooters among my friends, but mostly because I'm one of the few who hasn't traded in their nice, heavy wooden stock for a plastic wonder. I'm still lugging a 'tree' around to the range.
Pete: Very nice assessment of GW1 and subsequent policies. I could devil's advocate for why/why not go in shooting, but I don't think this is the right forum for that. I think you made a good hit with that post.
Brogers: Remember, Saddam didn't have anything to do with 9/11. Yes, I think bin Laden (bin Hidin'?) should be introduced to Mr. JHP, but let's not spray and pray. A little precision goes a long way, and the "bomb everything flat and start over" doesn't (in the end) do anything to reduce our enemies in that part of the world. That's what this gig is about, right? Reducing threats to us?
Well, at least this post is shorter than my last one.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 22:10:46 (ZULU)
Joe M.: LOL I don't think I quite qualify as "bad ass", but at least I don't wear Birkenstocks. Thanks for the tip on the SR25 and clones. More toys to save up for. Guess that's why I'm eating granola... *G*
Paul: You're absolutely right that there isn't any one "correct" answer. As for correct courses of action, in hindsight, we'll probably all be thought of as criminals anyway, no matter whether we start shooting or just back that SOB down and let the UN pluck his fangs. Good luck to all those over there in the sand, and may they all come home to a better reception than we gave back in '70.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 22:27:46 (ZULU)
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 23:11:31 (ZULU)
(TreeHugger)
The smith mount ain't a QD--unless maybe you forget to check the torques now and then. If you mount it yourself, use a plum line centered off the iron sights to adjust yaw in the mount. Your reciever may look straight, but guess what! Ignore the mounting instructions that say "release torque on the clip guide screw after initial torques on the side screw"--if you do this, the side mounting screw will put more yaw on that mount than 'yer scope has windage to compensate for!
(Hey Geoff--remember that fiasco? heheh--the damn thing turned like the blades on a helicopter!!!)
If yours ain't got the Nat'l Match hooded rear sight, then crank in about 400 yds of elevation to get a good datum reference on the plum line. Then just be anal in setting that mount as close to parallel as possible. I used calipers, a good torque wrench (70 in-lb will sheer the screw, 60 will loosen right up)...and blue locktite.
Man, you just gotta love those antiques...
Kush-
Single engine over water? Yeeechs. I was never fond of DLQs in Little Creek for that very reason. At least the waters are warm in Key West!
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 23:12:33 (ZULU)
Thank God; it was bad enough that I knew what they were! Heheh.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 23:17:28 (ZULU)
Wuzzup with Martin Sheene protestin'? He sure didn't mind making a butt assed load of money off of Apocolypse Now a killin' and a carryin' on now did he? The worst terrorist attack IN HISTORY occurred RIGHT HERE a year and a half ago and they don't want to make waves.
What a national disgrace. These pricks would piss themselves if the real deal showed up at their house with terror on their mind.
Our forefathers would be sick to their stomachs.
Thank God for folks like Ken Melendy, Dave Liwanag, Rick Boucher, Joe Mahon and all you Vets. HOOYAH! you bastards. Proud to be among you on the blue side of the house.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 23:44:59 (ZULU)
At the risk of being accused of some kind of affiliation with Smith Ent. I'll finish my narrative with one last bit of info. While their mounting base is not by any stretch of the imagination a "quick release" design your scope can be quick release from the Smith base by virtue of a pair of ARMS throw-lever QR rings. The mount has a groove or tunnel down the center, giving you full use of your iron sights with or without the scope mounted.
Also, the mount is now available with the standard old Weaver style mounting rail - just like the BPT on the old M21 - or with a full Picatinny rail which will give you more latitude in mounting your scope. Both versions are otherwise identical.
Iraq and the Mid-East,
Just a few random thoughts. How can we trust Colin Powell's judgement since he was the chief architect of the GW1 pullout? Could the present cluster-f**k going on right now be in any way related to this administrations inability to get Bin Laden and destroy al-quaida, something like Klinton's bombing asprin factories to take the public spotlight away from a few illicit blow-jobs?
If we're gonna do this, why in the hell worry about what the leftist UN says, they're not going to go along with us anyway? We are being openly challenged by our former allies for control of the worlds economy with Russia riding their coattails. Turkey is blackmailing us for more aid money before they agree to allow our troops to use bases on their soil, and the rest of the Moslem world is sitting on the fence, waiting to see who blinks first. Meanwhile Saddam is arming Iraqs women and children to kill American troops in the streets of Baghdad. Didn't Harry S. Truman use two atomic bombs on Japan to avoid this kind of bloodbath? I figure that ten to twenty nuclear equipped Cruise Missles would make our statement without sacrificing our troops needlessly. And who the F**K cares if ANY of them will hate us? In case anybody hasn't noticed, they already do, and have demonstrably proven this Sept.11. They hate us and always will, some major European powers hate us and are very jealous of our position in the world. Russia will never forgive us for breaking down their society, and the radical Muslims will always hate us and dedicate their sons and daughters to our destruction. So who in the hell are we trying to kid, other than ourselves?
Had enough,
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 23:51:48 (ZULU)
Does D.D. Ross make a set of the Long rings 2 cross bolts, and 6 cap screws that are tall enough to let a 5.5-22 NXS clear a #7 or larger contour when mounted with a Badger Ord. base..
Also Which rings would you suggest D.D. Ross or Badger Ord.
Appreciate the info..
JEF
Jef Rice <rhysrifleworks@yahoo.com>
Wheatland, WY, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 00:43:48 (ZULU)
I can tell you if DD Ross makes a ring that'll work, but Badger certainly does,, so why bother with Anything else? Premier Reticle has great prices on Badger rings and bases, and customer service is second to none.
I personally think the Max 50's are overkill, at least they have been for me, but you have that option if you want 6 scews per ring cap, otherwise the standard style ring will workie just fine for whatever weight scope you decide to toss in there. Just MHO.
Joe M.,
Good to see you around mang ;)
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 01:59:14 (ZULU)
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 02:13:07 (ZULU)
Comin outta here, all multi engine birds in my future. If I don't get frogs (and I don't see why not) I got my eye on 53's. 3 engines churning out 12,000+ SHP. Talk about beating the air into submission. Oh well, off to prep for a GPS/ILS hop.
Later Hawgs.
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 03:09:40 (ZULU)
Joe M.: Misspelling "Birkenstocks" is a point in your favor. Sounds like mounting a Smith is a fairly involved operation --and NOT a QD system. (Unless I bugger it up, which is always a strong possibility.) Thanks for the benefit of your experience. Now I just need to save up the cash for the mount itself.
Brogers: Good point, and taken to heart. The flip side being that we will always be a target for someone.
I just hope our politicians don't bugger this up. Seems like every time we send in our military to fix something, the politicos drop the ball. I'm getting a little sick of US blood being spilled because whatever crook-de-jour is in the Oval Office doesn't want to hold up his end of the bargain and make our military efforts count. Our troops are not expendable "foreign policy tokens", they are Americans.
I'm going to shut up on the political commentary now. I can see both sides way too easily, so I could well get in trouble here. Besides, someone seems to be talking shooting instead of politics.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 04:53:02 (ZULU)
>>> and may they all come home to a better reception than we gave back in '70 <<<
Amen.
jc
jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 06:55:43 (ZULU)
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/20/us.phil.combat/index.html
We will be able to publicly go hunt down and actively neutralize the terrorists that have been causing all the trouble down in PI. Good hunting, be safe, and return quickly!!
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 08:03:54 (ZULU)
Altama Desert Tan Boots for $99.95 - http://www.altama.com/milspec/4156.htm
Or Danner Desert Acadia 8" for $225.00 - http://www.danner.com/products.asp?catid=12&prodid=1927
I have 3 pr of danner "Go-Devil" or boots and like them pretty well but I just wanted to get some input on the pros and cons of these boots.
These aren't the same boots (Altamas) that were reported to be shedding their soles in A'stan were they?
Or are there other boots that will pass as issue that I should be looking into?
If you guys have any input I'd appreciate it, I have to get my order in pretty quick to get the boots in time.
Thanks,
DA
Dakota Aviator <dakotaaviator@hotmail.com>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 08:30:48 (ZULU)
Andy and I use Danner Acadias most of the time but when the weather turns warm or we travel to the Southwest we change out to the Desert Tan boots from Altama. FWIW, we always wear insoles. They make a big difference. Socks are an important part of the equation too.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 12:55:36 (ZULU)
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 14:30:49 (ZULU)
TH; Yes we will always have people who want to bury us! That's why we have the force to deal with it. I'm reminded of a kid once who came from a large town and moved to our little country school. He was a gang leader and had been sent to the country "cause he was so bad!". I put up with his brandishing brass knuckles and switch blades and ordering everyone around for a couple of weeks. He waved em in my face one day and took my Hamburger and stepped on it. Today he would still be counted a good friend and would tell you that episode behind the hamburger joint was the best lesson he ever had.
Some of my best friends started out as enemies. But first you got to get their complete respect. (that was the last fight I ever had at that school by the way).
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 14:33:11 (ZULU)
I saw Brian Shul speak once (at the NAS Jax Naval Hospital Christmas
Ball). He spoke that day about the value of compassion in medicine. He talked about how he was so horribly burned and disfigured that even the docs and the nurses turned away from him, and about how the human attention meant so much to him at that point that he would resort to trickery to try and engage the medical staff. The example he gave was of the time he had someone make a large sign that said "kisses $1" which was then placed next to his bed. The smiles that folks flashed after reading the sign was enough to keep him going. It took him a year to get out of the hospital and yet he
went on to fly A-7s, A-10s, and finally the SR-71. If you're a fan of
Naval Aviation and the Blue Angels and you don't own a copy of his photo album "Blue Angels a Portrait in Gold" you are missing out on some of the best photographs ever taken of the world's best formation aerobatic team. At any rate the attached speech by Brian is right on and should be posted on every bulletin board.
John Taber, Lt.Col., U.S. Army Veterinary Corps, Fellow Q.B., and
Aerobatic pilot extraordinaire
______________________________________________
Brian Shul's Chico Rally Address: October
Thank you for the opportunity to address this rally today. It is not often that a fighter pilot is asked to be the keynote speaker. There is a rumor that they are unable to put two sentences together inherently. I'd like to dispel that rumor today by saying that I can do that, and in fact that I have written several books. I always wanted to be an author, and I ARE one now.
I'm a pretty lucky person really. I'm like the little boy who tells his father that when he grows up he wants to be a jet pilot, and his father replies, "Sorry son, you can't do both." I made that choice a long time ago and flew the jets. I was fortunate to live my dream, and then some. I survived something I shouldn't have, and today, tell people that I am 28 years old, as it has been that long since I was released from the hospital.
It was like I received a second life, and in the past 28 years, I have
gotten to see and do much, so much that I would not have thought possible. Returning to fly jets in the Air Force, flying the SR-71 on spy missions, spending a year with the Blue Angels, running my own photo studio ... and so much more. And now, seeing our country attacked in such a heinous way. Some of you here today have heard me speak before, and know that I enjoy sharing my aviation slide show. I have brought no slides to show you, as I feel compelled today, to address different issues concerning this very difficult time in our nation's history.
I stand before you today, not as some famous person, or war hero. I am far from that. You know, they say a good landing is one you can walk away from, and a really great one is when you can use the airplane again. Well, I did neither . and I speak to you to today as simply a fellow American citizen. Like you, I was horrified at the events of September 11th. But I was not totally surprised that such a thing could happen, or that there were people in the world who would perpetrate such deeds, willingly, against us. Having sat through many classified briefings while in the Air Force, I was all too aware of the threat, and I can assure you, it has always been there in one
form or another. And those of you who have served in the defense of this nation, know all too well the response that is needed.
In every fighter squadron I was in, there was a saying that we knew to be true, that said, when there was a true enemy, you negotiate with that enemy with your knee in his chest and your knife at his throat. Many people are unfamiliar with this way of thinking, and shrink from its ramifications. War is such a messy business, and there are many who want no part of it, but rush to bask in the security blanket of its victory. I spent an entire military career fighting Communism, and was very proud to do so. We won that war, we beat one of the worst scourges to humankind the world has known. But it took a great effort, over many years of sustained vigilance and much sacrifice by so many whose names you will never know. And perhaps our nation, so weary from so long a cold war, relaxed too much
and felt the world was a safer place with the demise of the Soviet Union. We indulged ourselves in our own lives, and gave little thought to the threats to our national security.
You know, normally my talks are laced with numerous jokes as I share my stories, but I have very few jokes to tell this afternoon. These murdering fanatics came into our land, lived amongst our people, flew on our planes, crashed them into our buildings, and killed thousands of our citizens. And no where along their gruesome path were they questioned or stopped. The joke is on us. We allowed this country to become soft. We shouldn't really be too surprised that this could happen. Did we really think that we could keep electing officials who put self above nation and this would make us stronger? Did we really think that a strong economy adequately replaced a strong intelligence community? Did we imagine that a President who practically gave away the store on his watch, was insuring national security? While our country was mired in the wasted excess of a White House sex scandal, the drums of war beat loudly in foreign lands, and we were deaf. Our response was to give the man two terms in office, and even then barely half the American public exercised their right to vote.
We have only ourselves to blame. Our elected officials are merely a
reflection of our own values and what we deem important.
Did we not realize that America had become a laughing stock around the
world? We had lost credibility, even amongst our allies. To our enemies we had no resolve. We made a lot of money, watched a lot of TV, and understood little about what was happening beyond our shores. We were, simply, an easy target.
But we are a country awakened now. We have been attacked in our homeland. We have now felt the reality of what an unstable and dangerous world it truly is. And still, in the face of this unprecedented carnage in our most prominent city, there are those who choose to take this opportunity to protest, and even burn the flag.
If I were the regents or alumni of certain large universities in this
county, I would be embarrassed to be producing students of such ignorance and naive notions. Like mindless sheep, they march with painted faces and trite sayings on signs, blissfully ignorant of the world they live in, and the system that protects them, hoping maybe to make the evening news. Perhaps if they had spent more time in class they would have learned that those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it. They might have learned that all it takes for evil to succeed in the world, is for good people to stand by and do nothing. If they had simply gone back in history as recently as the Viet Nam War, they would have learned that an enemy that knows it can never defeat us militarily, will persist as long as there is dissension and disruption in our land. Their ignorance can be understood, as their young empty minds have been filled with the rewritten history tripe that tenured leftist professors can spew out with no fear of removal. But the unwitting aid they provide the enemy, in disrupting the national resolve, is unforgivable.
I think this is a wonderful country, though, that gives everyone their voice of dissension. I am all for people expressing their views publicly because it makes it much easier for us to identify the truly foolish, and to know who cannot be counted on in times of crisis. These are the weak and cowardly who, when the enemy is crashing through the front door, will cower in the back room, counting on better men than themselves to make and keep them free. Well, the enemy is at our front door, and isn't it interesting those who cry loudest and most often for their rights, are usually those
least willing to defend it.
I heard a student on TV the other day say that this war just wasn't in his plans and he would simply head to Canada if a draft occurred. Just wasn't in his plans. I wonder what plans the young men at the beaches of Normandy had that they never got to live. I wonder if it was in the plans of 19-year-old boys in Viet Nam to lie dying in a jungle far from home. I guess the men and women at Pearl Harbor one morning had their plans slightly rearranged too.
Gee, I hope we haven't inconvenienced this student. Those people in the World Trade Center have no more plans. It is up to us to have a plan now. And it isn't going to be easy. Who ever said it would? Just what part of our history spoke of how easy it was to form a free nation? It has never been easy and has always required vigilance and sacrifice, and sometimes war, to preserve this union. If it were easy, everyone would have done it. But no one else has, and we stand alone as the most unique country on earth.
And isn't it amazing that we have spent a generation stamping God out of our schools and government, and now as a nation, have collectively turned to God in memorial services, prayer vigils and churches around this country. I am also very disturbed to hear that there are people in this country, at this particular time, who feel it inappropriate to wear the flag on their lapel because they are on the news or in a public job, and school officials who want to remove pro-American stickers so as not to offend foreign students. Well, I am offended that these people call themselves Americans.
I am offended that innocent people were killed in a mass attack of
unthinkable proportions. And I am offended at listening to TV broadcasters speak to me condescendingly, with a bias that screams of their drowning in a cesspool of political correctness. I pity the person who thinks they are going to remove this flag from my lapel. This flag of ours is the symbol of all that is good about this country.
America is an idea. It is an idea lived, and fought for, by a people. We are America, and this is our symbol. We are imperfect in many ways, but we continue to strive toward the ideal our forefathers laid down for us over 225 years ago. I could never imagine desecrating that symbol. Perhaps there are many people in this nation who have never been abroad, or in harms way, and seen the flag upon their return. Those poor souls can never know the deep pride and honor one feels to see it wave, to know that there is still a good ol' USA. With all our warts we are still the greatest nation on earth, and the flag is the most powerful symbol of that greatness.
When I was in grade school, we used to say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning. It is something I never forgot. I wonder how many children even know that pledge today. This flag is our history, our dreams, our accomplishments, indelibly expressed in bright red, white, and blue. This flag was carried in our Revolutionary War, although it had many less stars. But it persevered and evolved throughout a war we had no right to believe we could win. But we
did, and built a country around it. This flag, tattered and battle worn, waved proudly from the mast, as John Paul Jones showed the enemy what true resolve was. This banner was raised by the hands of brave men on a godforsaken island called Iwo Jima, and became a part of the most famous photo of the 20th Century. Those men are all dead now, but their legacy lives on in the Marine Memorial in Washington, DC.
Those of you who have seen it will recall that inscribed within the stone monument are the words - When Uncommon Valor Was A Common Virtue - I don't believe you'll see the words, "it was easy," anywhere on it. This flag has even been to the moon, planted there for all time by men with a vision, and the courage to see it through.
I personally know what it is to see the flag, and feel something deep
inside that makes you feel you are a part of something much bigger than yourself. Laying in a hospital bed, I can vividly recall looking out the only window in the room and on Sundays, seeing that big garrison flag flying proudly in the breeze. It filled the entire window, and filled my heart with a motivation that helped me leave that bed, and enabled me to be standing here today. And many years later, while fighting another terrorist over Libya, my backseater and I outraced Khaddafi's missiles in our SR-71 as we headed for the Mediterranean, and I can still clearly see that American flag patch on the shoulder of my space suit, staring at me in the rear view mirror as we headed west, and it was a good feeling. Now don't ask me why we had rear view mirrors in the world's fastest jet, I can assure you, no one was gaining on us that day.
I am so happy to see so many flags out here today. Long may it wave.
History will judge us. How we confront this chapter of American history will be important for the future of this great nation. This will be a war like none other we have endured. The combatants will not just be the soldier on the battlefront, but will be fought by us the citizens. We are on the battlefield now; the war has been brought to us. We will determine the outcome of this war by how well we remain vigilant, how patient we are with tightened security, how well we support the economy, and most importantly, in the resolve we show the enemy. There are some things worth fighting for, and this country is one of them.
I pray for our leaders at this time. In the Pacific, during WW II, Admiral Bull Halsey said, "There are no great men, just great circumstances, and how they handle those circumstances will determine the outcome of history." Our future and the future of coming generations are in our hands. Wars are not won just on military fronts, but by the resolve of the people. We must remain tenaciously strong in the pursuit of this enemy that threatens free people everywhere.
I am encouraged that we will win this war. Even before the first shot was finished being fired, there were brave Americans on Flight 93, fighting back. These people were the first true heroes of this conflict, and gave their lives to save their fellow countrymen.
This nation, this melting pot of humanity, this free republic, must be
preserved. This idea that is America is important enough to be defended. Fought for. Even die for. The enemy fears what you have, for if their people ever become liberated into a free society, tyrannical dictatorships will cease and he will lose power.
How can they ever understand this country of ours, so self-indulgent and diverse, yet when attacked, so united in the defense of its principals? This is the greatest country in the world because brave people sacrificed to make it that way. We are a collective mix of greatness and greed, hi-tech and heartland. We are the country of Mickey Mouse and Mickey Mantle; from John Smith and Pocahontas to John Glen and an Atlas booster; from Charles Lindbergh to Charley Brown; from Moby Dick to Microsoft; we are a nation that went from Kitty Hawk to Tranquility Base in less than 70 years; we are rock and roll, and the Bill of Rights; we are where everyone else wants to be, the greatest nation in the world.
The enemy does not understand the dichotomy of our society, but they
should understand this; we will bandage our wounds, we will bury our dead; and then we will come for you.......and we will destroy you and all you stand for.
I read this quote recently and would like to share it with you: We are
pressed on every side, but not crushed, Perplexed, but not in despair,
Persecuted, but not abandoned, Struck down, but not destroyed. That is from II Corinthians. Not too long ago it would have been
politically incorrect to quote from the Bible. I am so happy to be
politically INCORRECT. And I am so proud to be an American.
Thank you all for coming out today and showing your support for your
government, and your nation. You are the true patriots, you are the
soldiers of this war, you are the strength of America.
Brian Shul
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 14:54:57 (ZULU)
The Danners look good and I know Danners work but the 125$ difference would allow me to buy some other gear.
(I have never owned or worn a pair of Altamas)
Thanks,
DA
Dakota Aviator <dakotaaviator@hotmail.com>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 16:08:49 (ZULU)
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 17:36:05 (ZULU)
AMEN and thank you SIR for sharing that. I'm not familiar with the gentleman; but I'm going to buy and read his books even if he is an Air Force type. ;o)
Thanks again,
Doc (An old Naval Aviator)
Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 17:39:43 (ZULU)
The ARMS #22 throwlever rings are IMHO the best QR rings available at this time. They will usually return to about 1/2 MOA as long as their mechanism doesn't loosen up from the normal wear of constant removal and reinstallation. Face it, wherever there are moving parts, there will be some wear. I'd say that for the average rifleman they'll probably last a lifetime. I use this identical throwlever system on ARMS QR bases with an ACOG TA01NSN on an M4 SOPMOD carbine, and on an SPR with a B&L Tac 10 scope.
Sierra Echo (well known to some of us) has been using the QR rings first on his M21 and later on his M25 for years without a complaint that I've ever heard, and he shoots a lot. I'm positive that other Roster Rats are also using them. You can get them from MSTN or from MSP. I've done business with both, they're good people!
If for some reason you ever get tired of using the name "Treehugger", I was thinking that you could always tag yourself as "Woodstock" considering how you got the name;-))
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 18:06:05 (ZULU)
Thanks for the input on the tripods. I think I am going to go with the manfrotto from Center Mass when I free up some money. New family room for the house is drawing hard on the household funds.
If you are looking for a cheap short tripod a friend of mine showed me one he got from CDNN. It is a Tasco Heavy Duty Mirco Adjustable tripod. It is sturdy and made of almost all metal. The head has adjustment knobs for windage and elevation. This is a big plus with the spotting scope. It is to low for a rifle rest except in the prone position and it only cost $19.99 plus shipping (closeout I think). For that price I am going to order one.
Dakota Aviator, Major Surplus and Survival sells the Altama Desert boot and have them on sale for $59.95. I am not sure if it is the milspec version but I think it is.
Is there anyone on the roster that was in PSYOPS and still has access to FM's and TM's. I have lost one of my current FM's and I am wanting to replace it. Drop me an e-mail off line if you may be able to help out.
I just finished digging out from the snow storm and now we are going to get rain. Time to put up the shovel and break out the life raft.
I am never going to get to the range.
Keith <keith37f20@excite.com>
North Central , WV, - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 18:13:47 (ZULU)
That's a roger. I believe they'll even sell those books to a flyin' squid if he's got the cash and a cosigner;-))
An old Airforce type,
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 18:15:16 (ZULU)
Treehugger, we have already been in Iraq and would have no need to go back to remove anything. Nice therory though. I stand by my original ideas.
Mike Miller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 18:52:40 (ZULU)
HDR <hprudisell@aol.com>
OK, - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 18:55:36 (ZULU)
The French Government have today announced,that as of March 1st Paris will cease to be the Capital city of France,Taking its place will be Toulouse,(pronounced "to loose"), it is felt that this change and the name of the new Capital is more in keeping with French character and traditions.
Jon B, not ignoring you mate, just busy as hell, training course this week on working laws, plus all the admin for the team and an odd shift or two, plus some other stuff, i just heared that our Brownells shipment got held up by the SS i mean customs, i'll have to talk my way out of getting stuffed for the tax.
Tree dude, i'm all for going in and kicking ass, sooner the better.
Brian Sain, you owe me beer buddy but i can't remember anything about owed packages, i'll take all you send me gladly. and i'm working on another for you too.
Right guys, got some interesting news to announce. I got an email from Michael Stukenkemper, the propriotor of SWS 2000 Gmbh. www.sws2000.de and i've been exchangeing some ideas with him ever since, he is going to let me "play"with an SWS2000, and i shall thoroughly test it and write a report/artikle on its performance, Tis interesting and inovative sniper weapon system is built on a propriatory action that incorporates an integral 20 moa inclined picatinny rail, it has user change barrel / caliber facility and can be had in all calibers from 223 to 338 lap mag, McMillan stock, Lothar Walther barrels, any way, full specs will follow as will performance characteristiks. The website is a bit short on pics but that will be adjusted asap. I'm pretty excited about this, should be fun.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 19:41:22 (ZULU)
I'm really getting wrapped around the axle about the scope angle. The receiver is the same as the Rem. 700 short action, but needs the Rem. Long action mount to fit. That was weird. Short of shimming the rear of the Badger mount, what can I do to correct the elevation problem? I've only got 28 min. of elevation left on the turret, and that's not going to get me to a thousand. Any ideas would be appreciated. I still can't get my email address changed on this thing, so if you have any answers, get me at gthammer@hotmail.com. Thanx.
Charles S. Hunt <dpms223@aol.com>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 21:05:55 (ZULU)
MARIUS:: HOW GOES THE DOCTORATE?????
MK4::DISSERTATION DULY NOTED!!!
macgregor
MACGREGOR <brownc@kos.net>
an AMERICANadian up here in CANADIA DESPITE THEM , - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 21:33:47 (ZULU)
My suggestion since you have a Badger Base installed and I will assume that it fits fine on the receiver is to pick up a set of Burris Signature/Posi-Align Zee rings. They come in various heights for 1" and high for 30mm. The Signature rings have polymer inserts that you can get with off-set halves, -5, +5 and -10, +10 but standard inserts are 0, 0. Depending on the packaging they will either come with only the 0, 0 set or all three. Since you already have the tapered base you might want to start out with the insert set (rear - top -5, bottom +5, front - top 0, bottom 0) which would give you an additional 5 degrees forward cant on the scope. By shifting the position of the inserts you can even adjust the windage to set mechanical zero by rotating the inserts left or right as necessary. The other neat part about these rings is they don't slip or mar the scope. They are not a hardened tactical ring but they have held up well for me over the years.
Good Luck,
P.S.- You will usually have to look around for them unless you have a shop that carries the Burris line and they will run about $30 - $45 a set depending on the size and height. I just checked and Midway and Brownell's carry them.
***** Updated *****
My numbers above may be misleading and I don't want to do that so I found this on Burris' site:
SIGNATURE RINGS with the POS-ALIGN Offset Insert Kit is the cure ( not just a band-aid ) for all your scope-to-receiver-to-bore alignment problems . The POS-ALIGN Offset Inserts eliminate the need to shim bases, optimize optical performance, allow windage and elevation adjustments not normally possible with any style of scope rings and allow maximum in-the-field adjustments . The inserts are available in +/- .005, +/- .010 and +/- .020 . ( Note : each ring will require both the "+" and "-" insert of the same value .)
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 21:44:05 (ZULU)
As Alan said, the ARMS QD rings are good to go. I had been told that they would reattach sub moa. But I'm pretty sure it's better than that. I've been using them for over a year on an SR-25 and absolutely love them.
Dakota,
I just ordered a pair of the Danner Desert Arcadias. They are built great. But they seem to size a little narrow. I think I'm going to have to send these back and order a wider size. And then hope my feet don't slip around in them. Unless someone else can tell me it's better to wait and try to break them in. Oh, Botachtactical had them on sale for $159. Or you can find them for $189 from Arizona Tactical and some other places. They seem to size a little funny so if you can find them at an Army/Navy surplus store and try them on first it might be best.
To all
I just received the palm pilot ATrag2P ballistic software from
Horus Vision. This seems to be pretty good stuff. Very flexible and programmable. I think this could be a real asset out in the field. Has anyone tried it yet? Anyway I'm going to give it a shot and see how it holds up.
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 22:04:40 (ZULU)
I think that Byron has the right idea for you re: the Burris Signature Z rings and offset inserts.
Another thing comes to mind, however. I seem to remember that someone posted a question about certain production runs of the Remington 700 action having the rear receiver ring (bridge) made lower than the front. This wasn't too long ago. Either George or Marty (I suffer from CRS Disease and can't remember which) posted that they would check into it and report back to the DR. I can't recall seeing any more about it. Now it's got my curiosity tickled. Anybody remember this or have any knowledge to add?
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 22:13:12 (ZULU)
Great post
John Levens,
They'll break in a little. If they're really tight to the pointof being uncomfortable, not just snug, get a wider size and use a beefier insole to take care of any slop you might have. My Acadias are about 10 years old and still going strong, great boots.
Any one know if anyone will do a ranging reticle on an M-49 spotting scope. I love the one I have, it's in great shape, but a ranging reticle would be great.
Well, rain today, hopefully no rain tomorrow for the range
"For those who fight for it, life has a special flavor the protected never know"
Kush out
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 22:55:53 (ZULU)
I had that same problem--subtracted elevation via the dang reciever--on my boy's model seven. Chalk it up to Remmy's diligent quality control? Or is it a new contour on the recievers? Whatever it was, my 2-7 VXII couldn't adjust enough up; and my 3-9 VXII tactical used all of the available elevation to get zeroed (100yds).
Those zee's are good to go. I have a set on my M21, and they are holding just fine (someone mentioned the weird recoil pulse...:)).
I finally joined the Mouse-gun-teers' club today...picked up a pre-ban CAR-15 kinda-clone. Heavier contour barrel and 1:9" twist with the A1 upper. Otherwise, just like the carbines from the eighties. Nostalgia again. I ordered it six weeks ago-but travels prevented my picking it up. Gee, just in time to break it in and preserve/ store it for my next trip...:((
Brian,
I fear you will see more action than those of us overseas...and that thought is unsettling. My wife is a patrol officer. I hate thinking the home front is yet another battle line--but there it is. No longer a question of "if," it is a question of "when." You and those like you have my prayers for your safety--and my hopes for decisive ends to any and all threats. Terroristus interruptus. Heheh. Thanks to you and your compadres for keeping my kids safe. I honestly believe that is how it is. And, God bless the LEOs of this country! To those who would sleep peacefully in their beds tonight--I ask, "consider why?"
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 23:38:09 (ZULU)
M1A mounts- I just got a Smith mount in a wheel deal trade. I had never tried it before but it seems alright. I did the mounting using the plub line as mentioned. I must have gotten lucky, I got it right by the ole naked eye the first time. I have used the ARMS mount in the past and it's a good deal too. Either would do you right. The ARMS rings are a good deal too. I've had them on my AR10T (which I hope to get to Mr. George sooner rather than later) for a while and never thought about swapping them out. Plus if you get them and don't like them resale is pretty good and they make great accesory mounts for surefire lights, etc.
Boots- I'm a Danner guy for the most part (black at work desert for play). So far they size true to the sizer thing at a shoe store for me and they are consistent in size from one pair to another. The Belleville boots are also good boots and I have had good luck with them. Altima boots really hurt my feet and didn't have the suppoort I like so I off-loaded them ASAP. I didn't have them long enough to tell you about durability. The Danner and Belleville have a good life span and work well for me in these S/W hills and deserts.
Howa- Well it sounds like that stick is just wrecked and not worth keeping, I'll trade you my old 10-22 for it and I'll even throw in a BB gun scope =) I had the same problem after I lopped the barrel down on my 110FP. A 20 taper base brought it right back to where it worked fine. Don't know whats up with yours. My Howa (hunting taper bbl) has a Loopy base/rings and never had the problem. I'd be interested in knowing what caused it too.
Stay safe,
Joe S.
Joe S. <Spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, SoCal, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 00:14:42 (ZULU)
I'll toss in my $ 0.02.
I have both the Altamas & The Danner Ft Lewis models.
The Altamas are a year or so old, worn mainly when it's hot.
The Danners are about 7 years old, been re-soled 3 times and are ready for another. Damn things won't wear out. Just get more comfortable. I wear em every day I don't have the jackboots on(cycle duty). They are insulated & are good for all but the hottest weather. Takin care of em is worth every minute used. Given their lifespan, they are well worth the approx 2 bills. Altamas were about 70 bucks, maybe a bit less. Apples & oranges. Both do their jobs. Got a pair of Arcadias too, bought em off a Seal cheap. They're ok but can't beat the Ft Lewis models though. IMHO
Kinds like having the 308 for snipin 'organic' targets & having a 50 for 'hard ' targets.
Have been much better off over the years spending a few more $$ on the feet than other areas.
Mk4, Fantastic piece from Mr Shul.
Have a good weekend gents,
Deputy Doug
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K Town, WI, US of Good ol' A - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 00:26:21 (ZULU)
The daily grind for these is work on cellular sites. A lot of odd angle standing and heavy bending from kneeling, corregated steel, chat rock, concrete work, groiund excavation etc. Of course,, my heavy frame isn't helping matters. ;))
If you have opportunity to resupply every 4 or 5 months, I'd say the Altima will do you right for a hot weather boot, but if you're in it for the long haul, I'd spend the extra cash. My Mil issue vulcanized soled leather boots have lasted upwards of 10 years with resoles. The Altima may go to 1 year, but I doubt it.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 00:39:51 (ZULU)
Just saw an interview with a former 4 Star General from Iraq. He was one of Saddam's top advisors in the "91" war. His take on the up comming one is that Saddam knows he can't stand toe to toe with us. So he's moving the Regular Army incircling Bagdad as bullet bait. His loyal Guard units are implaced IN Bagdad so the fighting will be house-to-house.
With Bagdad having a population of 5,000,000 with about 1,000,000 armed Militia (that may or not fight) and covering some 2,000 sq miles. He figures his Guard and Militia can send at least 2,000 - 3,000 American troops home in bodybags. His thinking is that if he sends enought bodybags back to the USA the population will raise holy hell with the Gov. to end it because our populace doesn't have the guts or balls to carry on the fight with a high body count.
As much as I hate to say it, his thinking may just be right. I doubt the sheeple will take seeing too many C-130s unload many gray steel coffins before they start to back down. It's been 30 years since we had a high body count conflict and our population is a hell of a lot more "pussyfied" than it was during Nam.
TreverSlyFox <treverslyfox@yahoo.com>
Houston, Missouri, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 01:05:28 (ZULU)
Be careful ordering from Botach. They have mixed press on other forums. I have never dealt with them, but you may want to check out other forums to get the skinny.
New computer is fast as lightnin. Makes surfing a fun thing.
On the Bagdad thing.....
I think its great that Sadass wants to put all of his troops in one area. I think our military dudes should read the stories about the seige of Leningrad. The Germans screwed it up and got to impatient. If Sadass does what you have indicated, all we have to do is surround the damn place and starve them out. Won't have to fire a shot. Patience is the key. Once the populace gets hungry enough, they will kill the military off and come a runnin for them fine tastin MRE's.
Starting watching the Sierra Reloading Tapes with David Tub. He skips a lot of upfront stuff like how to choose dies, etc. Also, how many of you turn your necks? He also says that it is best to full length size high power stuff so that you know you won't have chambering problems?
Bolt <reeldoc@triad.rr.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 01:37:35 (ZULU)
You gents and your talk of screwed-up M700 receivers got me pretty cranked-up.
I just finished bedding a brand-new VS .308 w/ Marine-Tex and lapping a set of Mk4s for my Loopy M3LR. (Night-Force tapered bases.)
Ran out into the garage, unlocked the safe, and checked the bore-sight. (I bore-sight on my bosses roof corner across the street. hee hee). Whew! Now i feel better. Got approx. 56 mins. left over...
Got the old ticker pumpin'...
Can't try it out until the wife gets back from Germany visiting son and daughter-in-law and new grand-boy. Me and the girls are "bachin" it.
Y'all take care and stay safe.
Hug them kids.
Semper-Fi!
Spud
Dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
Merced, Kalisocialistfornia, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 01:58:41 (ZULU)
Darn. I might have used Woodstock if I'd thought of it. Maybe next time. ;-)
John and Alan: I'll take a look at the ARMS QD rings. It'll be a little while, though: the spirit is willing but the bank account is weak.
TreverSlyFox: Now there's a chilling piece of foreshadowing. Doesn't surprise me a bit, either.
Bolt: Like your analogy with Leningrad. May be a good strategy. Would suck to get bogged there for years, though.
Mike: Glad you like my theories. I'll keep tossing 'em out there for people to swat down. I don't mind that a bit, so long as people think about them. There's too darn little thinking going on these days, it seems. Way too much leaping, way too little looking.
Pete: Yes, some ass-kicking is in order, but whenever it is we do it, let's not do it recklessly. The way I figure it, a single, precision shot is usually worth more than ten minutes of spray-and-pray. Speaking of which, I still can't figure out why we don't send in a team and let a sniper reach out and touch Mr. Hussein. Cheap. No fuss, no muss. And instead of the rest of the world whining at us, we come up looking good. Beats me...
Alan and Brogers: Sorry guys, on this one I'll disagree openly. Nukes are bad business all around. I know they were used to save casualties in WW2, but knowing now what we didn't know then --the various physiological side effects, how global weather patterns toss the fallout back in our face no matter where we are, etc.-- I just can't support their use today. A situation like what we had with the USSR, where each side had to have both the ability and the spine to annihilate the other just because the other had that capability too (MAD), was one thing. Using them as a tactical convenience, in lieu of conventionals, is a whole different ball game. The cost of nukes on the world and on ourselves is just too high in this situation. You can razz my ass about living up to my name, but I don't yield on this one. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Brogers: Good assessment of how to deal with bullies. I'm with you. Just to be argumentative, though, I'll chime in with a mention of escalation and disparity of force. After a policy of nuke 'em 'till they glow and shoot 'em in the dark, it doesn't matter how bad the other bully was, *you're* the bully now. Those who fear you will never be true allies, no matter what they say.
As for conflicts eventually breeding respect and possibly even friendship, yes, I agree that often happens, but the way the conflict appears to the rest of the world is of equal importance. If the neighbors all now consider you a bully, not understanding that you're now friends with your ex-enemy, you may find yourself facing a lot more hostiles than you reckoned for. Yes, you can then stomp each of them, individually or collectively, but that's going to cost you a lot more PITA (and in this case, lives) than had you dealt with the first bully in a more subtle fashion.
I'm not saying we shouldn't step on this moustached cockroach, but I am saying we should do it in such a way that the squish doesn't throw eggs everywhere.
Ye gawds. I've got to get more sleep if I'm now tossing around that much metaphor.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 02:49:47 (ZULU)
Been busy with work and lawyer, ex pulling crap, new gig (possible USO tour too), trying to sell the house and relocate, and finding out that chicks really do dig musicians ;-), but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to poke a little fun. Regarding the M1A scope mounting, I now know why mounting a scope on an M1A is such a legendary deal. Joe's was an eye opener for me. Tweaking guns is fun, but I think you can make my .308 autoloader a flattop AR10 with a match barrel, floated handguard, and optic in ARMS #22's on a SWAN sleeve with flip up BUI's thank you very much. All the gain, none of the PAIN! LOL!
Where the hell are 'Lito and Dan?
Mike and Wes...heal up already, k?
Agree with Joe re: cops being the front line. I heard that an agency took down a convenience store just on the IL side of the border earlier this week. Raghead owners, had some sort of Bin Laden "shrine" built in a back room. Just bar talk, but WTF?
Been spending a lot of time in that area, and I DON'T like it. Doug B and rest of you LEO's, I don't envy you, if something happens, I hope you get reeeeeal lucky!
I walked the big mall at Gurnee Mills (north Chicago suburbs) with a wheeled backpack last week, shit. I don't even want to say how that went. Sheep is the word. I am NOT cut out to be a city boy!
Oh yeah...ARMS #22 are the shiznit if you *need* quick detach ability.
Joe, we will hook up soon.
Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
WI, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 02:55:35 (ZULU)
Bent barrel-easier than you might think in sporter weight.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 04:32:48 (ZULU)
Got to get back to my...oh I mean the lads, Pinewood Derby car, time trials tomorrow ya know.
Joe S.
Joe S. <Spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, SoCal, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 07:12:17 (ZULU)
If Saddam thinks the merican people will fold he ought to remember that several thousand of their countrymen were murdered by vermin wich he has not distanced himself from.Besides, he has killed a shit load of his own people and is obviously going to contribute greatly to this world by leaving it.
The point is gulfwar2 is a dirty job that needs doing,the sooner we start the sooner we can do somethin more enjoyable.My prime minister is a peice of shit but I have to agree with him on this.If the u.n want to come along,great,if they want to carry on like box heads and frogs then screw 'em,now and forever,amen.
Le & mil folk,God speed & watch yer 6
out
G.W
Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 08:09:44 (ZULU)
USMC Rules For Gun Fighting
1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your
friends who have guns.
2. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not
start with a "4".
3. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is
expensive.
4. Only hits count. A close miss is still a miss.
5. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough
nor using cover correctly.
6. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and
diagonal movements are preferred.)
7. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a
friend with a long gun.
8. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or
tactics., they will only remember who lived.
9. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and
running.
10. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more
dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
11. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME.
12. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to
beat you to death with it because it is empty.
13. Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
14. Have a plan.
15. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.
16. Use cover and concealment as much as possible.
17. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
18. Don't drop your guard.
19. Always tactically reload and threat scan 360 degrees.
20. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep
your hands where I can see them).
21. Decide to be AGGRESSIVE enough, QUICKLY enough.
22. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot up you will get.
23. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
24. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
Navy Rules for Gun Fighting:
1. Go to Sea
2. Send the Marines
3. Drink Coffee
Army rules for Gun Fighting:
Show up after fight to provide security and help hand out food
to all of the displaced civilians.
Air Force rules for Gun Fighting:
Watch this all on cable in a BOQ while drinking a beer.
Sarge
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 14:04:07 (ZULU)
Treehugga; Nuke's is not a first strike preferred option, but taking untold casualties to protect the enemies country is not an option either. \
I think there is way too much handwringing over an enemy who's elite troops slows down his opposition only by surrendering in the path of advancing infantry. These are not German Nazi troops or even Afgan mountain men. Chemical weapons should be met with appropriate response if someone would be so foolish to launch them and will do more harm to the Iraqi people than the American troops. Those troops will be on top of them before they can do more than commit suicide. This isn't a SWAT operation, it's a full battle assault on a city. Ever heard of something called TANKS! House to house? Houses get bull dozed. This guy is a suicidial fool and we'll treat him the way we did the one in Germany. If he's lucky he'll have time to commit suicide.
Allies; Who in the hell is that? Perhaps someone who's interest of the moment is to help you gain your objective. /OR someone who wants to be sure they are not gonna attack them or their interests/ or Someone who wants us to protect them. IF we had any number of true allies we wouldn't have to go to the UN. OK there's the British and the Aussies God bless the bloody boogers, they all realize what's at stake and fit at least 2 of the catagories above.
Look back at this page's Archive when we were talking about the invasion of Afganistan. The handwringers are always sure we're gonna just be wiped out by some stone age army somewhere. We have Vietnam's foolishness to thank for all this. The mismanagement of that will haunt us forever. America has prioritized the ability to wage war anywhere anytime and backed it with our souls and our money and the youth of America should note that it's their responsibility to keep it combat ready if Democracy is to survive. They will.
One more thing, it's important to identify your enemy and to think that Sadamn is the only Iraqi against us is pure foolishness. I think you get my drift.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 15:15:43 (ZULU)
I like the chick.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 16:07:19 (ZULU)
You have mail w/ attachment.
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 16:17:38 (ZULU)
She may not be much to look at; but she's one sharp lady. Glad she's on our side.
Doc
Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The soggy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 16:22:26 (ZULU)
Bought a pair of Danners in '86--wore em through a winter Ranger class. Then the Q, then 5 years of world travels in SF, then Alaska. Eight soles later and this same pair is on my feet right this minute! 10th SFG gave me a pair of Matterhorns in 89; they are still kicking along too--I use them "off duty." My thought was to "extend" the service life of the more expensive danners...I hadn't yet realized they were indestructable. Two more cents. You're getting rich off this thread!
Joe S.-Pinewood derby memories! Ahh, the good ol days. I made, errr, my son made one into a replica "monte carlo" Nascar, decorated with scavenged J. Gordon Logos from a model kit. He actually shaped it after I cut it down on the bandsaw. He painted it too. It won the pretty prize at two levels, but it was too slow to be competetive. Big confidence boost to the little guy. We mounted it to an old spark plug on a walnut plack. Enjoy these days mang!
Sarge,
Did the Marines enjoy picking up spent Ranger Brass at Kandahar? Heheh. In fact, including WWII, name a place where the Marines were the first on the ground. Say Guadalcanal and I'll say "LTC Fertig." It is a silly point to argue in reality. Nothing against Marines, but the myth of first to fight is just that--a myth. SOCOM seems to be the "first to fight" lately; and the Marine Corps didn't wanna play back in the eighties. And yes, there are contigencies where the Corps will lead the charge--it is just that these situations haven't happened in a long time. Since I am Army and my whole family is Department of the Navy (yeah, I went there--ducking into my bunker)--I hear this argument all the damn time. This same argument is internal to the Army too. It drives the regular-types nuts that a bunch of "undisciplined" GBs, together with the "fractured and inviable" Northern Alliance drove the Taliban to the hills in short order. Made my day though. Winning is all that counts in my eyes, I don't care if it is cooks and clerks from the Airforce--so long as my team wins every time!!!!
And I am smiling wide as I type this. I just love inter-service rivalry--it makes each of us better. We all know that we give our best when the shit hits the fan--no matter who leads or follows. The rivalry stays at the POE. I love this shit. I am sooooo glad I didn't retire at 20....
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 16:46:53 (ZULU)
Watch his body language on the way to or from an interview about Sadaam.
Seen that same swagger a thousand times before and after a Southeast Texas bar fight. heh heh.
Just saw a special on Condoleeza Rice right after my post.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 16:54:46 (ZULU)
Pete
Peter Lincoln <anke_pete@t-online.de>
D - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 17:10:55 (ZULU)
1972: Dad was working and didn't have time to help me with my car so I whittled it out myself with a pocket knife. Painted it with a black magic marker. Made some home made decals in the form of a shark for the sides, with notebook paper and a red flair marker and put a CSA battle flag on the hood. Called it "The Shark".
My best friend had a bad ass car. Polished nail axles, graphite, lead weighted to just under the weight limit, etc. but damn SLOW.
Mine was the ugliest car there but damn FAST. Dad made the race. HUGE group of scouts in those days.
It came down to me and the kid who's Dad was setting the cars on the track to run. I'd already beaten this kid once in an earlier heat. My car was the only car that his car hadn't beaten. We would run on each track and then switch lanes. Yes, "The SHARK" was unbeaten.
I handed the guy my car to start the final race. The place was packed and very loud. The kid's Dad looked both ways to make sure no one was looking and purposely dropped my car. Broke a hard plastic wheel in half. "Oops, sorry kid. Guess you lose"
Ohhhhh, you sorry son of a bitch. Daaaaaaaaaddddddddd!!!!!!
he heh.
Dad grabbed my buddies car which had already lost. Yanked a nail wheeled axle off and stuck it on my car. Dad walked up to the guy and the guy reached out to take my car. Dad said "I'LL DO IT". Dad put the car on the track and there we went.
Zooom. Shark won.
Switched lanes -
Zooom. Shark won again. Unbeaten throughout the contest.
Won the big trophy and first place ribbon. Had to give my buddy his wheel back after the race. Proud day.
Still got "The SHARK" after all these years, in my china cabinet. Missing wheel and all. Right next to that big assed trophy.
Thanks Dad.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 17:15:28 (ZULU)
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 17:27:58 (ZULU)
you shooting that AI yet?
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 17:37:33 (ZULU)
Eating last night with family at one of those Asian, cook it at your table type places.
My 2 year old got bored and was wandering around about 2 feet from my chair.
In the middle of a mouthful of noodles and rice, I realize there is a small red dot on my boy's forehead.
You know the rest. As I pitched my kid under the table and spewed rice while trying yell, I heard wifey saying something to the effect of "oh f&^*^, not again".
As my 1911 Commander cleared the holster and I closed distance to the next table, there was this small voice in my head that said "Uh Oh! you need to think about this!"
Luckily before I got to the other table the kids mom was working him over pretty good about the deal and was somewhat oblivious to the enraged, pistol toting, rice drooling, behemoth that was on the way. I got the Commander and the behemoth put away at about the same time, and I don't think the kids parents ever knew what happened!
God I hate those things!!!
Poor chef at the table. Couldn't catch anything the rest of the night and burned everything he cooked.
Been a while. Hope everybody is healthy. Reading the last several days of posts sounds like not much has changed here. Good!
What if Condoleeza Rice and Tony Blair had a child? Hmmmmm....
Rich Johnson <rjohnson@cityofclovis.org>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 17:57:07 (ZULU)
I have second hand understanding of the red dot reaction. My wife was sitting off an intersection at the university in her squad watching for drunks...when a red flash hits her eyes and settles on her chest. She threw herself sideways and hit the lights; bailing out of the drivers side. In the beams were two college kids, eyes wide, staring at her .40-bore. Yep, they were holding a laser pointer and thought it would be funny to light up a cop. How dumb is that? Bet they laughed real hard in the holding cell.
Chick-cops dig me. (whaddya say to that Brian!)
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 18:42:37 (ZULU)
Had to pass this on. You gotta love it! ;o)
A True Marine
From a Marine in Bosnia: (note signature after reading)
A funny thing happened to me yesterday at Camp Bondsteel (Bosnia):
A French army officer walked up to me in the PX, and told me he
thought we (Americans) were a bunch of cowboys and were going to provoke a war.
He said if such a thing happens, we wouldn't be able to count
on the support of France. I told him that it didn't surprise me. Since we had come to France's rescue in World War I, World War II, Vietnam, and the Cold War, their ingratitude and jealousy was due to surface at some point in the near future anyway.
That is why France is a third-rate military power with a socialist economy and a bunch of faggots for soldiers.
I additionally told him that America, being a nation of deeds and
action, not words, would do whatever it had to do, and France's
support was only for show anyway. Just like in ALL NATO exercises, the US would shoulder 85% of the burden, as evidenced by the fact that the French officer was shopping in the American PX, and not the other way around.
He began to get belligerent at that point, and I told him if he
would like to, I would meet him outside in front of the Burger King and beat his ass in front of the entire Multi-National Brigade
East, thus demonstrating that even the smallest American had more fight in him than the average Frenchman. He called me a barbarian cowboy and walked away in a huff.
With friends like these, who needs enemies?
Mary Beth Johnson LtCol, USMC
*********************************
Doc
Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The soggy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 19:03:23 (ZULU)
Brogers: Sounds like things are heating up to where aggravation is an issue, so I'm going to shut up. We each have our opinion; I think each is valuable and viable, but I don't think either of us is going to "convert" the other --or should, necessarily. If you want to keep the ideas coming via email, I'd love it, but I don't want to turn this into a pissing match on the site. I'm a newbie here and don't want to rile the regulars.
WR Moore: If that was my 721's bent barrel you were talking about, yes, I've thought about sporterizing it, but I heard a report that you lose about 50fps per inch of barrel you lop. I don't see the point of having a nice, versatile .30-06 hobbled by missing 250fps. Feel free to contradict me. (Brogers certainly enjoys it. *G*)
(No, Brogers, I wasn't slamming you. That last was with big grin and tongue in cheek.)
Geoff M: Thanks for the confirm on the ARMS #22s.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 19:20:20 (ZULU)
26-9
'nuff said
Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 19:55:18 (ZULU)
As to who you get along with here, usually Treehugger types come and call us names and then run away at the first sign of a duscussion. You stick around and find out this place is made up not of dumb asses but some very bright guys. Guys that stand up and are counted. Guys that use their names with pride and have honor, and many guys who have given their self to making it possible for you and I to disagree.
Some will end their words with, DOL,S/F or just a plain Hooah! All are brothers.
Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 19:56:56 (ZULU)
Ain't here yet. AI had a few problems, is backed up and had to re-order it. No big deal. Shouldn't be too long I hope. Saw 'em @ SHOT and had a few beers w/ 'em.
Wish it would get here though. Think I'm gonna suppress this one.
Regardless, I'm tired of the foreplay.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 20:04:11 (ZULU)
Other than covert ops and such the REAL "first to fight" in these days is usually USAF Wild Weasels and USN Iron Hand aircraft, closely followed by strike fighters from both branches of the service, Army Apaches attacking radar towers come in pretty early too. The official motto of the Weasels is "First In - Last Out". Try wagging your tail at a SAM site acting as a "SAM Magnet" while hundreds of miles into Indian Country with nary a friendly on the ground to cover your ass!
I won't even mention CAS calls at this time. I will admit, however, that those of us who made it back to base at missions end did watch a lot of TV, but it was from the OC, and it was on the satellite. And the beer was cold, and the food was edible;-))
* I really hope that this is taken in the "friendly rivalry" spirit in which it is intended.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 20:13:24 (ZULU)
She is two faced. Her speech at Denver University in 1996 was full of commie crap. She called for the US to do more world-wide in the way of feeding, clothing, and policing the world. Of course, she said those things while Clinton was in office. Now that he is out and she is no longer seeking political appointment, she sings a different toon.
During her speech, she call for more affirmative action and preached that the US should push such shit on the rest of the world. She has little real-world experience outside the University, and has never held a real job. She was an advisor during Bush I and a professor beyond that. She has displaced knowledgeable professionals and doesn’t know jack shit about most things she talks about. Every thing she knows she read from a book. She was a Russian advisor, having never been there. She is the usual yuppie with connections, talks out of both sides of her mouth, and uses other people’s ideas and knowledge as her own. She takes credit for ideas and thoughts she doesn’t deserve.
/rantoffbutlikely
Hank <robahenry@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 20:54:43 (ZULU)
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 20:55:33 (ZULU)
She seems to have more than a little class to me.
But then, anyone has more class than I do.
BKS
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 21:11:46 (ZULU)
Well, some of the drooling mush-heads they recruit suffer from a rather warped sense of humor. I was sitting in one of my favorite Mexican food joints, Taco Hell (yeah, I know, but I love them crispy tacos, comes from not being able to get them for some years while overseas) about to chow down on a Burrito Supreme, when I noticed that I had a little red something or other crawling on it. When the little red something or other crawled over onto my arm, then my shirt, BOTH my brain cells fired at once and I jumped across the seat, under the table and into the aisle. When I looked up, I saw the laser dot on two pieces of glass simeultaneously and got a look where it was coming from. Slackjawed, drooling little motherf***er
laughing his ass off. Well, him, two more and the driver had warrants, and the little shit will probably never forget what Break-Free tastes like. Pissed me off.....
Charles S. Hunt <dpms223@aol.com>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 21:25:44 (ZULU)
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 22:00:08 (ZULU)
...another vote for the Danners...great boots, no matter what color I'm told to wear...
Picked up an 18 inch Imp.cyl 870 barrel today...man that's a short little thing !!!
...anyone have a really good 45auto load with 230gr. bullets and Winc231 powder ???
ONE more question....Leupold M1 or M3 ???? I've not used either....it will be a LR 3.5x10x40, matte, mildot, tact knobs.....
Regards....
JRMoore
JRMoore <utl@shentel.net>
Northern Rainy, Virginny, US of Wonderful A - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 22:05:30 (ZULU)
If target shooting, hunting and stuff like that get the M1. If shooting sniper type stuff get the M3. Either are great but the .25 clicks on the M1 help get in the X a little better.
Bolt <reeldoc@triad.rr.com>
NC, - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 00:09:42 (ZULU)
Got a message from you on my email. Not legit is it?
Terry Hoover <Thooverusmcv68@aol.com>
Kansas City , Kansas, - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 01:02:41 (ZULU)
Tony Burkes <tburkes@sbcglobal.net>
Alvin, Texas, USA - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 01:08:13 (ZULU)
If Condoleeza Rice and Tony Blair had a child it'd be named either Tonyleeza or Condolony.
Baghdad;
How many wars were won by armies who dug in large cities? Think about Berlin, Leningrad, Stalingrad. The problem is they cut themselves off when digging in. The Russian cities survived because Hitler was an imbecile and was not patient. Baghdad will be like Berlin, the enemy head of state will be in the center of the city and when he is gone, the resistance will fall apart.
Yes it does make for a very long campaign, but the enemy CAN'T leave. He WILL run out of ammo, food, water, electricity, medicine and eventually willpower. Some will kill each other for food and water and illness will be rampant. Time is on the attacker's side, don't get in a hurry.
There will be substantial civilian casualties. This will be unavoidable. That is the nature of urban seige warfare and those who dig into cities don't care about the population. Fortunately, we have precision guided munitions to take out the strategic locations so we won't have to level the place.
There is no need to worry about the world opinion. Especially in that area. Most of the world dislikes us and always will. The muslims are taught to hate us, I guess because we are mostly Christians and Jews. Kinda odd since we all(Christians, Jews and Muslims)worship the same God, the God of Abraham.
Sorry for the long and kinda off topic post.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 01:33:27 (ZULU)
There's a Vintage Very Rare WWII French Battle(????)Flag for sale on Ebay. There are 45 bids currently on this thing and its up to $112.50
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2160749477&category=4077[/url]
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 01:52:14 (ZULU)
Guys,
I get BOGUS email from most of you all the damn time. I don't open them usually unless they seem legit or one of you sends a heads up ahead of time.
Seems the uncircumcised, little, pocket protected, pencil necked, dweebs, with nothing better to do are always sending that shit.
I haven't mailed anything to anyone lately so it ain't me fellas.
!@##$$%!
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 02:06:02 (ZULU)
Without even looking, I'd bet it is a tri-color - white on white on white! ;-)
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
- Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 02:29:08 (ZULU)
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 05:52:13 (ZULU)
You've got mail w/attachment. SOS :-)
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 06:12:18 (ZULU)
I've got one on order. How does the work they do compare to George Gardner's at Gaprecision in NKC, MO?
I'm going with the Alaskan Wildneress Rifle in Model 700, .300 SAUM, 24 inch barrel turned as heavy as the stock will permit. I expect it to be much more accurate than my current skill level.
They offered to put an XB-40 trigger on it. What, if anything, will this do for the weapon? I'm going to be the limiting factor for a while.
Any input is appreciated!
Thanks, Matt
Matt L. <lfootmatt@yahoo.com>
Tucson, AZ, USA - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 07:27:37 (ZULU)
I was just gonna post the French battle Flag thing Mk4 mentioned. Got the info from a French Basher friend. Looked it up & laughed my ass off. Can't even sit straight now. Funniest thing I ever did see.
Thanks for that info Bri
Doug
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K Town, WI, US of A - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 07:29:21 (ZULU)
WI now has a statute, makes it a Felony to use in manners described. Recently, a call I had to respond to was that a guy was out painting his shed, saw he was being "Lazed", had a heart attack. Dumb Bastard who shined him claimed he did it by accident, 20 or so times. Old vet wanted to bust his ass even though he was in middle of heart condition. Dumb ass got probation and a lawsuit. Course, he ain't got a pot to piss in, so lawyers are all who'll get the $$.
Gotta hit the sack. Gotta get the wife (LB) up in 4 hours to go shootin. Another cold snowy windy day brewin. :)
Deputy Doug
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K Town, WI, US of A - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 07:36:42 (ZULU)
I said they may get lucky.
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 09:37:00 (ZULU)
I'd suggest the 3.5x10 LR M3..Get one and don't look back..Have a Kenton Industries custom elevation turret on mine and love it.
Came home from SHOT to 30+ inches of snow. Got road bulldozed. Then rain and potential flooding. Now it's snowing again..Man am I ready for Spring!!!!!!!!
outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Safely ensconced in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 14:45:22 (ZULU)
"My own testing with well built rifles has never shown the slightest coorelation between low E.S. and accuracy. It seems like it should be the case, but it just doesn't work out that way. .......(break).............This explains why expressly loading for low digit E.S. numbers never results in accuracy. If an accurate load happens to have a low E.S., well...that's a nice side benefit, 'ya know? "
Any thoughts?
Mike in Texas <mcdonald@hcn.hcnews.com>
Texas, - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 15:43:54 (ZULU)
Open up the range and your velocity spread will give you vertical shot dispersion.
Barring barrel vibration the fasters shots hit a bit higher cause gravity has less time to work on them.
Conversely the slower shot will hit lower cause gravity works on them a bit longer.
Although a bit less telling, wind will effect the Horizontal dispersion because of the time of flight too!
Steve from Rainy New Joisey.
Steven Dzupin <sdzupin@optonline.net>
Wayne, New Joisey, US of A - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 16:15:21 (ZULU)
http://www.accuratereloading.com/videos.html
.577 T-Rex ROCKS!!
Steve from Foggy New Joisey
Steven Dzupin <sdzupin@optonline.net>
Wayne, New Joisey, US of A - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 16:25:10 (ZULU)
Killing an American
Finally someone says it right !!! You probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper an offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American. So an Australian dentist wrote the following to let everyone know what an American is, so they would know when they found one:
An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani, or Afghan. An American may also be a Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or one of the many other tribes known as native Americans.
An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan. The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them chooses. An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God.
An American is from the most prosperous land in the history of the world. The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence, which recognizes the God given right of each person the pursuit of happiness.
An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about every
other nation in the world in their time of need. When Afghanistan was
overrun by the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and
supplies to enable the people to win back their country. As of the
morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in Afghanistan. Americans welcome the best, the best products, the best books, the best music, the best food, the best athletes. But they also welcome the least. The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty, welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These in fact are the people who built America. Some of them were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2001, earning a better life for their families. I've been told that the World Trade Center victims were from at least 30 other countries, cultures, and first languages, including those that aided and abetted the terrorists.
So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did
General Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and every bloodthirsty tyrant in the history of the world. But, in doing so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American.
HDR <hprudisell@aol.com>
OK, - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 17:56:05 (ZULU)
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 18:33:27 (ZULU)
Later, guys. going to go get packed for Camp Gruber. And shoot some more.
Charles S. Hunt <dpms223@aol.com>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 18:46:56 (ZULU)
Me thinks this is Joisey Bullshit........
Go here
http://www.physicscentral.com/lou/lou-00-7.html
Then again, after re-reading your post (lower impact at SAME DISTANCE),I stand self-corrected.
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 19:20:41 (ZULU)
Just did an interesting experiment which has kind of knocked my anal thinking to my reloads. I have been kicking myself trying to find the best seating depth for my rifle, I've tried many and always had in my mind 'near is better, don't go too deep', while all along my cheapo factory loads (the company supplies em) shoots suprisingly well and consistantly so. Well I just pulled a bullet to see what they were seated to in my barrel and they averaged a staggering (to me any way) 0.221" off the lands. I say averaged beacause the extreme spread was 0.010". And there was I worrying about 0.005" differences! Quess I should shoot more and tinker less.
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 19:38:17 (ZULU)
Less drop & a bit less wind correction.
They strive for low ES here too.
Time of Flight (Stable flight time) too!
Ref. Sierra Bullets Rifle Load book.
The Bullshit has moved out,too much housing.
The Pig shit smell still surfaces on the Turnpipe ie.Turnpike! LOL
Somewhere around Secaucus!
Good Shootin!
Steve from New Joisey
Steven Dzupin <sdzupin@optonline.net>
Wayne , New Joisey, US of A - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 20:40:59 (ZULU)
Chuck, Glad things finally came to gether on the new Howa. Have fun with out me this week. In Service time. I drive instuctors nuts..
Dirty Steve, Out.
Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, US of A - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 20:52:11 (ZULU)
Undude/Mike: You're probably right about the weapons sales, and that if we find anything in Iraq stamped USGI, it'll have come through a couple of very unofficial middlemen. Frankly, I think the whole who's-hiding-what is a pretty minor aspect, but it'll be interesting to see just what we find when we get there.
As for shooting my mouth off and then running, what's the fun of that?
Brogers: Hot kitchens are where the best cooking takes place. Though if you think you can outdraw a 1911 with a Glock, you've got bigger problems than you think. ;) (Oops. Shouldn't jump in on a joke I don't know the history of.)
Hank: Good call on Rice!
Jody: Like your post. Seige warfare is bad business, but whoever is inside almost always falls eventually.
HDR: Wow. Not bad at all.
And to anyone: I notice a lot of Loopy Vari-X 3s being talked about and touted, but no Vari-X 2s. Any particular reason? Bad scope, or just not as good? I've got one, but I'm not sure how I like it yet. I'm stil wrestling with this inherited S&K mount, so I don't know whether to blame scope, mount, or me. (Probably me.)
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 21:40:13 (ZULU)
Bomac <biker3@earthlink.net>
- Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 21:54:02 (ZULU)
You going to Sniperweek? You can bunk with us if that will help get you there. Derrick is still short on Red Shirts last time I talked with him. That will cover your tuition. Getting there and food is all you'd be out.
The more, the merrier.
BKS
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 22:04:31 (ZULU)
now if you realy want an Alaska rifle, ask me about my 450 marlin..
Mk 4, froggy battle flad, me thinks some one fucked up the translation, its actualy a table cloth. Canape, is that right, my frog aint what it used to be.But ole Chiraque is getting a poster and a white feather this week, I'll do my anti frog duty ( ey Jon, !! oh oh)
Jon B, i won't mention t' rugby, any way, to your " should shoot more and tinker less" you rekon i should take the same advice?? oh oh !! you should stop worrying about over all length and worry about how full you beer glass is.
Right I'm off out with the dog before she craps in the cellar.
Pete L
Peter Lincoln <anke_pete@t-online.de>
D - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 22:49:45 (ZULU)
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 23:08:26 (ZULU)
Jef Rice <rhysrifleworks@yahoo.com>
Wheatland, WY, USA - Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 23:17:10 (ZULU)
I have a Vari-X 2 Tactical on my rifle. I like it, it is better than me. I would think it is obsolete, though. Still good enough for me.
If the scope is new or at least was taken care of, I think you should give close attention to the rings and mounts. A lot of times scopes are blamed for things they are not at fault for.
LATER
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL- Heart of Dixie, USA - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 00:10:42 (ZULU)
Excellent post. Now let's see....I'm part Cherokee, Choctaw, Scottish and Black Dutch. I guess that explains my craving for the bag pipes, war drums, good chocolate and old scotch.....but will pass on the raw liver <Blech> ;)))))
--
>>>Mk 4, froggy battle flad, me thinks some one fucked up the translation, its actualy a table cloth.<<<<<<<
You mean it can't be one and the same? ;)))))
--
I spent the day doing a barrel break-in on my NIB Winnie 70 HBV. That is one FINE rifle. Thanks Alan for the lead on this rifle and you too Lito (I know you're out there) for the input I was looking for on this gun ;))) CDC...I know you know something about these rifles too.
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 00:15:11 (ZULU)
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 24, 2003, at 00:36:15 (ZULU)
I'm thinking his bullet hit faster, and took a more direct route...you see, my 175 grainer took a nice big arc...his 142 sierra flew much flatter and more directly.
I point this out simply because I am from Joisey...and we boys from the land of bad politics and bad smells gotta stick together...there are only a few of us "good guys" left here.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
joisey, - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 02:00:56 (ZULU)
To hell with Joisey politics......Move South,we'd welcome Y'all ;))
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 02:44:56 (ZULU)
Also, the notallies categories and the hundreds of countries lined up against us are often as not headed by men of the Joe Stalin theory of leadership. I'm sorry I can't get worked up over the lack of support from third world dictators that can't get their countries much out of the last century.
My .02 to be taken for what it's worth.
Steve
PS My guess is CDC is back in the full swing of filling empty heads with subversive things like three dimensional calculas and theoretical mathematics.
Steve Burris <skylar.burris@gte.net>
NOVA, VA, USA - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 02:47:48 (ZULU)
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 03:05:19 (ZULU)
www.deadeye2.com
This to me is one of those "why didn't I think of that" ideas - check it out!
Sarge
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 03:12:49 (ZULU)
Heck, my eyes are obsolete, why shouldn't my scope be?
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Monday, February 24, 2003, at 03:23:34 (ZULU)
Can anyone give me advice on a GPS unit for hunting, hiking and driving.I've looked at Magellan and Garmin, don't know what is necesary and what are frills.
Is anyone interested in a volume buy for hard and/or soft case for the Roster Rifle?
Fred Hartman
Fred Hartman <beartooth46@hotmail.com>
Toledo, Ohio, USA - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 03:54:57 (ZULU)
How can a HIGH Extreme Spread (ES) provide accuracy?
Accuracy requires constant velocities, as drop is directly inversely proportional to velocity. If the velocity changes, so does the drop; resulting in hitting higher or lower than average.
I guess if someone were to clock shots at 100yards, ES would be much less of a factor. Out at 700+ yards, it certainly will be a serious factor.
Hank <robahenry@hotmail.com>
Denver, - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 04:06:03 (ZULU)
Glad to hear that you're happy with your HBV. Someone on the DR helped me out several years ago - turned me on to a NIB B&L Tac 10 that was collecting dust in a sportin' goods store in NoCal, they had been out of production for about five years by then and not to be found anywhere. Just good karma to try and help the next guy.
Treehugger,
Not to knock your VXII - I've used them for years, but the differences between them and the VXIII are great. Among them are:
1) VXII didn't have positive click adjustments (except for Tactical) until the 2002 model run.
2) Quality of glass and modern lens coatings put the VXIII far ahead.
3) Lack of parallax adjustment on the VXII Tactical.
4) One inch tube diameter limits amount of available elevation adj.
I'm not at all saying for you to get rid of what you've got. The rule is to always fix only one thing at a time, that way you'll know in what direction you're heading. When you're outshooting the potential of your VXII you'll know it and move up to the VXIII's, but be careful - you'll get hooked and the next step will be the MK4's;-)
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 06:27:32 (ZULU)
>>>>bag pipes, war drums, good chocolate and old scotch....<<<<
These are a few of my favorite things.
But not necessarily in that order. :-))
jc
jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 07:06:57 (ZULU)
Mike in Texas....Can you Confirm this????
Steve~Hockeyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
gETING MORE SNOW AFTER THE FRIGGING RAINLEAKED INTO THE BASEMENT, - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 13:39:43 (ZULU)
Pretty scary !
Teknolugy ez meye frend,
Joe S.
Joe S. <spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, CA, USA - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 14:04:14 (ZULU)
NO knowledge of the original poster, or the gentleman I quoted.
I can't make the math work. I just disagree with his post.(quoted portions)
On the barrel harmonics issue discussed there, low es numbers make the vibrations closer to uniform. I think their reasoning is a combination of many facts construed to prove an agenda based conclusion. I most cetrainly coould be wrong.
Hank,
All my stuff is loaded to single digit es/sd numbers. It's all tested on paper from 100 to 1K.
I just wanted to see what the general concensus was...... :)
Mike in Texas <mcdonald@hcn.hcnews.com>
Texas, - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 15:16:17 (ZULU)
I've got one of the B&L Tac 10's too as a result of a fellow Rosterferian. Ken Hunter I believe was the one that brought it to my attention. Bought if off Ebay. It appeared to be in unused condition. Very nice scope. The only thing it lacks is an upgrade to the Gen 2 Mildot.
--
jc,
>>>>bag pipes, war drums, good chocolate and old scotch....<<<<
These are a few of my favorite things.<<<<<
I forgot to mention that I'm part French too but the Indian and Scottish side of me beat it into submission ;)))))
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 17:10:51 (ZULU)
Now that I think about it, wasn't it the USAF SOW that offered us a ride deep into the East Block should the balloon go up? Now these guys had large brass balls. The radar overlays clearly showed us that this was a dicey proposition. The crews said, "I bet we can beat that..." The point is, they were betting their lives in a daring low-level. I'll not forget that as long as I live. And I will be forever thankful to President Reagan for making this mission unnecessary. For every forced entry, there is an aircrew who stepped up. Yeah, the rivalry is alive and well--and it always will be. In the end, we all know that it is a "team effort" though we all will claim we're the best...even the blue suiters' have a legitimate argument for "first in"...heheh.
Hank,
Since I have been on the ground doing "Nation Building" missions all over the planet...I'd be careful labeling such endeavors as "commie." The man-on-the-street opinion in these back-water countries is hugely effected by these ops. A next generation leader may now be sitting in one of those schools we built in the pacific rim; or he had his first medical check up in one of our clinics in a mountain village...Condi is awright--and remember-action speaks louder than words whether we're talking taking down countries--or, putting them back together. From personal experience--the global charity that never gets press (SF groups doing it right now) is money well spent. I won't touch the call for more affirmative action--except that I know good people who like the concept--and who will admit that the perception of assistance is a big negative...go figure. I like Ms Rice--and could care less where she came from. I say that because no one here would have tolerated me back in High School, either. Liberals have been known to change with reality...Heheheheheheheheh.
Tony,
The "intent" is to stay in the group you start in. The planned rotation is 3-4 years in a stateside group, then an instuctor slot at the school, then overseas (varied in sequence as needed). At some point, you get tagged for staff time in one of the MACOMs, or at ROTC--usually to stave off burn-out on selected folks--then repeat. Reality is the "needs of the Army." When they stood up 1st Group, then 3rd, there was a involuntary PCS for "experienced" guys who were pulled from their trained AOs and thrust in to new AOs. But, in SF, the soldier is usually more of a concern than in other units--if an operator falls on a hard divorce or other adversity, a break is usually offered. Most refuse to leave their team...but the option is there. Clancy's book is OK--but if it was better, it would be classified. It was another case of "history" including some of my associates. I'm kinda getting tired of that...heheh.
MK4,
The french battle flag should go much higher--it's gotta be the only one in existance, and very, very old at that! Or is it the all-white version? In that case, there are millions of them. LOL
Ken M,
When your CAS comes in, remember where the money is going :)). As for the long action--don't ask me to justify GEN Guests' "visions" it just can't be done. LOL. Now that the Marines spent all their pennies, we'll take the results and move forward...thanks!
Now a shootin' question:
What the heck is a "J&T" mouse-gun barrel? CAR-15, but heavier contour. Chrome-lined or chrome molley? Pump handle or keeper? I never heard of em until I owned one.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Monday, February 24, 2003, at 17:32:40 (ZULU)
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 18:29:13 (ZULU)
I just tried that google search thing that Joe S mentioned and guess what.........!
It not only showed my home address but my email and my affiliation with sniper country and a few other things that are not for public consumption.......like the department I am a tactical operator for..........!!!!!!!!!! Listed me there cause of my email address.........!!!!!!!!!!
It also listed the date and time of my last posting here at snipercountry and a link to jump straight to it.
It does provide a link to click that will take you to mapquest for directions a map of where my house is there............!
HA!!!!! AND IT ALSO PROVIDES A LINK WHERE "NUMEROUS OTHER LINKABLE INFORMATION TO........can be found"
What the fuck!????
My paranoia level just went to orange.!
Mark
Semper Primus
Mark <beowulf4_hire@hotmail.com>
- Monday, February 24, 2003, at 19:10:22 (ZULU)
Chris too
Chris Workman <cworkman@esiofva.com>
Va Beach, VA, US - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 19:12:00 (ZULU)
Pete, you gotta give the Welsh a break, I mean how hard it must be just to be Welsh, in a team sport, and try to yell signals in Welsh. Welsh, they say things like 'pwy ydych chwi' which means who are you or what's your name, and come from villages called Llwchmynydd or Dwygyfylchi. oy, that hurts the brain.. I bet a spell checker on a welsh computer just gives up...
Oh and by the way Pete, the hotel is in Schwansetten, the swan, Erbschanke "zum Schwan", if you've heard of it... I know it's probably spelled wrong, but I don't have an umlaut or upside down apostrophe key..
>>Gee Mark,Folks shoot Magnums at long range,not because their more accurate,because the bullet gets there faster.
Come again? People do what they do, but they should be shooting heavier boolits to take full advantage of the extra charge. That's the advantage dude.. And heavier bullets of same shape are more accurate, therefore you could say that they are shooting magnums for accuracy's sake.. I know I do..
Jon,
What? you are two hundred thou off the lands? Are you reading the right end of the verniers? Just kidding, sounds like you've just got her broken in, ha...I heard this story that Jack Krieger shot a barrel which was winning competitions, and he only had about 6"(might have been a little more, sounded like a fish story) of barrel left, the rest was throat! ha...
The only time I like to see a wide spread is, well, I just won't go there...
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 19:19:51 (ZULU)
The Mapquest site also identifies that my house is 900 ft up a private drive from the nearest public access..........
The department email manager at my Station will want to see this!
holy shit........
And so goes my ongoing education about how potentially dangerous this friggin machine is.
And me worrying about some crack head catching me off guard on an Op.........maybe I should be watchin the house a bit closer........?
Mark
Mark <beowulf4_hire@hotmail.com>
- Monday, February 24, 2003, at 19:24:21 (ZULU)
I agree with you on the lowest possible ES for loads. I don't think it matters at closer ranges but at longer ones I have found it makes a difference in my groups.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Monday, February 24, 2003, at 21:05:01 (ZULU)
<I just received the palm pilot ATrag2P ballistic software from
Horus Vision. This seems to be pretty good stuff. Very flexible and programmable. I think this could be a real asset out in the field. Has anyone tried it yet? Anyway I'm going to give it a shot and see how it holds up.>
John,
Downloaded ATrag1P demo for the palm. Says will only work 6 times, but have run it about 50 times and still says only 6 available on bootup. Biggest dislike is that it will not give you a complete drop table. Only gives for the target range you enter. Does 2P give a complete table?
Also, 1P only allows you to enter Atmospherics as temp, baro, & humidity OR altitude & temp.
Have not had a chance to shoot it (monsoon conditions here) but have run test condition through it and 9 other programs for the palm and desktop. All within 1 MOA at 1K, but hell that's 10 inches + variation. Plan to shoot it at distance when the weather clears, if it ever does and then compare the 10 programs to actual results. Am betting that Pejsa Ballistics (Excel) free download from www.jacksonrifles.com comes closest. If so, it should be able to run under "Tiny Sheets" on a Palm machine or on a handheld PC platform.
Don
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, US of A - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 22:44:10 (ZULU)
It pays to be invisible. Not much is in my name except financial stuff--the utilities are in my wife's alias--aka: maiden name, first initial...so far, the strategy is working.
Not paranoid...just private. OK, maybe a little bit paranoid--but in a healthy way.
The J&T barrel is a chrome molley and not chrome lined near as I can tell. For what a 11.25" barrel can do--it isn't all bad. The flash suppressor is 5.25" by itself-nice counter balance. I sure wish my long guns were this light...
I am thinking of taking an Eotech 552 HDS overseas. Uses AA batts, and is compatable with PVS-14s. I'll get an M4--but I won't get any accessories where I am going. ACOG isn't what I am looking for, just a quick reflex sight. Is this a bad choice durability wise? (last I asked--ACOG was the overwhelming recommendation).
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Monday, February 24, 2003, at 23:05:03 (ZULU)
Looks like the SOW's have been in deep for SOCOM since we started in Afganistan. Teams from the 16th SOW are indicating targets for the JDAM's using the SOFLAM laser designator. Hairy mission!
J&T Distributing, soon to be making their own complete mouse guns under the name "Double Star" using FN mil-spec parts and Shaw barrels. J&T's line of replacement barrels are CM steel, not chrome lined, most are in a 1/9 twist, made by E.R. Shaw Co. Good quality production barrels made of 4140. Not the kind of precision quality that you'd get from Border, Obermeyer, Kreiger, Mike Rock, and others of that class that I haven't mentioned (so don't get pissed, guys), but certainly stand-up barrels for what they are, especially considering the cost! I've bought from J&T several times, and have been quite pleased with quality and service. www.jtdistributing.com
Google,
I'm gonna go search for myself and see how shocked I can get!
ALAN
edited: Joe M,
FWIW I like the Trijicon Reflex sight with the 12.5 MOA triangle aiming point. Great CQB sight and NO BATTERIES! I tried the EOTech, just a beefed up Bushnell Holosight IMHO, "HUD" is too small for door kickin' and no magnification for longer ranges. The Aimpoint
Comp M2 & ML2 are my personal favorites (for red-dots) but of course they use batteries. Just my $.02
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 23:14:30 (ZULU)
I run both Atrag2p and the Exbal software on my Palm m125. Both softwares offer special features. The Atrag2p lets you do mil-dot ranging work quickly while the Exbal gives you an option for output in terms of mils for wind and lead. Combined with a Kestrel 4000 and my fagmag I hope to increase my chances to hit with a CBS at UKD.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 23:50:43 (ZULU)
Google doesn't do nothing for me, I'm free and clear.
That's if I can keep Brian Insane from putting my whole damn name on the roster where it trips every search engine out there! I don't have the NK commandoes after me, but some chicks might come calling that I'd rather not have calling, know what I mean? So knock it off;-) S/F...Ken M
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
USA - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 23:53:33 (ZULU)
Haven't tried the "hunter" version, but you may want to check out the tactical version as well:
http://www.walkersgameear.com/tacticalear.asp
You can hook-up a two way radio with one of the tac versions.
Fred Hartman,
I just bought a new Garmin Rino 120. It's a GPS unit and FSR/GMRS 2-way radio all in one unit. So far I'm very impressed.
http://www.garmin.com/products/rino120/
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Monday, February 24, 2003, at 23:58:36 (ZULU)
