Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 00:24:53 (ZULU)
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 01:03:18 (ZULU)
I realy feel that I belong now I got my first email from Nigeria.
Am heading Out for some Yote's this weekend. Going to try the 50g Vmax that a friend loaded up for me. Also will get to shoot at some long distances for me, out to 800 possible.
Later.
JLU
Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 01:30:32 (ZULU)
E mail me if you have any information
Bomac <biker3@earthlink.net>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 02:42:49 (ZULU)
KenM,
Good to see you still around. You ever get to send any 7mm pills out of that new 280AI?
'Yote Bait,
Good to see you in from the sage,,, even if it's just the cold that pushed ya indoors ;))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 02:46:46 (ZULU)
Reading George's Lips; I'd lock and load. Monday is president's day!
Osama; Since you profess you wanna die anyway. I'd be proud if you'd send me your position. Why not make me rich? I promise it won't hurt long! Send me Sadamn's too, .. bloody infidel. Maybe you can convert him on the way!
50 Caliber 3 times the speed of a .44 magnum? What you guys up there at S&W smokin? 4500 fps. I think not. Tell us.. the rest of the story!
JOe D.; 800's a fur piece (no pun intended) for 50 grain pills. But have your self a merry holiday weekend anyway! Say hello to the back of the sound barrier for me.
Steve' Jerry's got it about figured right!
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 03:30:30 (ZULU)
I highly recommend this book. Have a bud that was a scout dog handler in Nam. Excellent read especially for you Sniper Mutt type folks.
http://www.dogtagsofcourage.com/
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 03:30:41 (ZULU)
I have been loading for the M1A's for several years now, and I have had lots of success with IMR4895, and Winchester748. I like LC brass, but I have had good luck with Federal, and Winchester too. Seat the bullets to the same OAL as Federal Gold Medal Match. Dont try to get away with just neck sizing the brass or you will be really pissed off when you gotta pull the bullets, and rebuild those rounds. I got Kreiger barrels on both of mine 6 groove with 1/10 twist. 2550-2570fps seems to work best for Sierra 168's or 175's. I shoot 175's out to 1000yds in competition.
I got two M1A's. One has the Springfield 3rd Gen Scope Mount, and the other has the Brookfield Precision Tool Company mount and Leupold Mark4 rings. The BPT mount is one of the best I have seen. ARMS makes a mount too, but I havent used it. The BPT is about $300 if you can find one.
Feel free to email if you need any help.
Best Regards,
Bill
William Bledsoe <dc8plumber@aol.com>
outback, ky, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 04:13:43 (ZULU)
I just got back from the G.A.Precision/Badger hospitality thingey. Ok I'm ok.........saw lots of the roster hawgs there, Mike Miller, Bruce Robinson and his lovely bride George and some other people. The beer and food was free. I'm ready for my root canal now doctor. I don't know how much more of this I can take.........I'll try...to .....continue..........so sleepy...........zzzzzzzzzz....
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 04:51:18 (ZULU)
Brain Sain- Protech helmets ....ummm good stuff...cheaper than stitches. I know from experiance =)
See ya,
Joe S.
Joe S. <spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, Cali, US of A - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 05:03:22 (ZULU)
Incoming email about "The Phantom of Phu Bai"
jc
jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 07:06:43 (ZULU)
The army is suppose to have fielded a SPR or Special Purpose Rifle, which is a AR with a 20" Krieger barrel, in A'stan. They are shooting Black Hills 77gr ammo in it. Does anyone know if it is performing to the militarys satisfaction?
What are the criteria the SPR is supposed to fill?
Why not go with the navys version of the SR-25 (besides cost)?
I know it's a gas gun question. But thought someone here might know.
Thanks
Bill
Bill Byford <byfords@otbnet.com>
IL, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 09:16:00 (ZULU)
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/vssweepman/vwp?.dir=/Project&.src=ph&.dnm=New+Nikon+Tacticals.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/vssweepman/lst%3f%26.dir=/Project%26.src=ph%26.view=t
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 12:25:35 (ZULU)
Been out of the loop for a couple years, but I think the Army is still using the MILES gear (just a new generation) called MILES2000 or sometimes referred to as MILES2. I'm sure someone else out there can get you a lot better technical data. We just called them P.O.S.
Chris too
Chris Workman <cworkman@esiofva.com>
Va Beach, VA, - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 13:40:24 (ZULU)
My baby is back home!! I picked up my 6.5x284 from Jr. and he gave me his extra barrel to go with it. I said, "Whats this for", and he admitted that he shot it on the man on man matches at the D&L shoot last summer after I told him I would kill him if he did.
I took it out and shot it, it still shoots well (4" 5 shot at 700 and a 4" 3 shot group at 800) but now I worry that it may give up on me at a inopertune time. I have to send the damn scope in on this one too!! I am having trouble dialing it(4.5x14) for some reason it turns real hard on the up an down. I want to get the new gen. mil reticle put in it so may contact Premier an see if they can correct it at that time.
The 260s really shooting well with the 140s so now I am loading in my spare time to get ready for summer. One thing about load testing in the winter the barrel doesn't get hot!!!(HA)
Son's on standby, might be getting called up within a week or two. Wish it was me instead of him. Much better being there than sitting home worring. The Gulf war was the shits when he was over there hate to go through it again.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 15:00:44 (ZULU)
Upon returning back from vacation, I received my Eagle TAC-V1-NU VEST (TAC-V1-NU). My intention for this vest is to set it up with gear for my Rice rifle.
My plan is to have two US GI canteen. A pistol belt and a standard combat pistol holster issued by our armed forces; can't forget the butt pack either or K-Bar. But besides that, I have yet to decide on what else to add.
My question is this, has anyone setup a vest with use with their rifle for green or black ops? If so, how. Any suggestions or advice on it?
Thanks in advance!
Darren
Semper Fidelis
Darren <usmc_dd214_1990@yahoo.com>
SF, CA, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 15:00:48 (ZULU)
Good deal. Looks like you just may need that barrel, but from the sounds of it,, it's doing well for now. You could always get the new one chambered and fit, then index it and keep the old one on until it's dead and switch back to the new barrel. A lot of trouble though.
Good to see the 260 coming along. I loaded up 50 rounds for the fagmags and I'm going to try and do some load testing this weekend. I hope I find something quick, as there's three more matches this month.
Shooting in the winter,,,, I saw the footage of the tractor trailor blown over in SoDak, and the snow rollers in the plains,,,, no thanks;))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 16:46:35 (ZULU)
I'm primarily a bolt gunner, but my M1A's have responded well to 168 and 175 grain Sierra's.
Powders? The old Isreali AA2520 shot wonderfully. Still have 8 lbs or so...
IMR 4895 shot so-so
IMR 4064 very good.
You may want to try Varget...it has the correct burn rate and shoots wonderfully in everything I've tried it in...
Stay away from 190 grainers in the M1A. Unless you want to beat the hell out of the gun.
Primers...use Winchester LR. Stay away from Federal 210's as they have soft primer cups and are frequently traced to slam-fires in the M1A/M14 rifles.
Hope this helps...
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 16:50:54 (ZULU)
Gaby's uncle (former SS MG guner) was in the Foreien Legion for about 10 years after the war, doing all his time in N. Africa. He said he had to get out when too many frogs started showing up in the ranks. Prior to that he said it was like a reunion from his Leibstandarte Div. He also mentioned the reason the Legion lost in SEA was that they insisted on running it in a froggy manner and not the way the "Germans" wanted to do it. But who's to say about that.
And I'm interested too, in that little secret you have. (but you can keep the rusy kabobs =)
Keep em in the X,
Joe S.
Joe S. <Spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, SoCal, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 17:26:08 (ZULU)
******Paddy Murphy goes to the Circus******
Paddy Murphy was walking round’ town with nothing to do like, pub's shut, then he spots a sign that says the Circus is in town. Never been to the circus, so he gives it a go.
Paddy gets to the circus, watches the lions, tigers, elephant, trapeze artist, he’s enjoying the show, when all of a sudden a donkey is brought out to the centre ring. The ringmaster gets on the PA and announces to the crowd that he will pay any man woman or child £50 if they can come down and make this donkey laugh. So lines of people form, everyone’s giving their best shot to make the donkey giggle, tickling it, makin faces, and this donkey doesn’t so much as smirk.
So Paddy decides, I’ll give it a shot, walks up to the donkey and whispers something in his ear. The donkey rolls over laughing, from the gut. Ringmaster begrudgingly pays Paddy his £50.
Next day, circus is still in town, so Paddy decides he’ll see it again. Lions tigers, trapeze, same show, ringmaster brings the donkey out to the centre ring, gets on the PA, says he’ll pay £50 to anyone who can make this donkey cry. So everyone lines up to try to make this donkey cry, with no success, not a tear.
Paddy walks up to the ringmaster, asks if he can take the donkey outside for a minute or two. Ringmaster says that’s fine, so Paddy takes the donkey outside the tent and 2 minutes later walks the donkey in, who’s bawlin’ it’s eyes out. Paddy holds his hand out for his prize.
The ringmaster furiously shoved the £50 into Paddy’s hand, and asks him “What the hell did you do yesterday to get this donkey to laugh?” Paddy says, “I told him my cock was bigger than his”. “Well how did you make him cry?” says the ringmaster. Paddy says, “I took him outside and showed it to him”
JR
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 18:15:36 (ZULU)
My limited knowledge on the SPR's as of a couple of months ago - there are (were) several different versions out there, Spr and SPR-A (probobaly more now) plus a USMC version called SMR.
They have been identified with Douglas, Krieger, and Schneider barrels with the Army versions at 18" and the Marines at 20".
There are a huge number of old M16A1 rifles out there and they're being put to good use by having the lowers refurbished and converted to SPR specs. A whole bunch cheaper than paying Reed Knight's prices, plus they wanted to retain select fire capability. We all know how controllable a .308 is on full auto. A local company has a large contract to perform some of these conversions, and they lease our club range one day per week for testing. Some other reasons that they didn't go with the SR-25 may be that the military needs quantities of the SPR now, and Knights may be stretched just producing guns for their existing contracts (my speculation).
I believe that the doctrine behind the SPR may be going toward the squad DMR application, although Master Rick confirmed that SPR's are being used as observers rifles in Afganistan. Sinister reported that the word that he got from the troops using them is that the BH 77gr. ammo is performing very well over there.
Now I'll editorialize just a little. I love the .308, and I own and shoot a bunch of them, bolt guns and gas guns. One of my next purchases will be an AR10(T). Having said that, I truly believe that many of the stories that we hear about the lack of effectiveness with the M855 round is probably due to the very poor marksmanship on the part of the average GI, enhanced by first time combat buck fever. You have to hit 'em to begin with. Then you have to hit 'em in the right place in order for it to count. The shoot through barricade argument falls apart unless you're shooting an LMG at fortified positions. What are you gonna do, use an M25 against railroad ties and sandbags, etc? Besides, the M855 will out-penetrate .308 GI Ball at long range anyway!
I've got some more SPR info if you want it, but it's been a constantly evolving project, and specs may be changed a bunch by now.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 18:53:52 (ZULU)
Thanks for your generous offer. Would love to make it an overnight in my ancester's homeland (my gramps was born there), and knock down a few lagers with you. I bet the Frankfort frauleins would love to see me to. Unfortunately, it looks like I am flying with the Dutch (KLM) and will be going to Kiev via Amsterdam (any ladies in Amsterdam?). I will definately take a rain check on that beer with you in Frankfort though. Take care.
Don
Don K. <ussr@clarityconnect.com>
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 20:57:57 (ZULU)
With that said I was looking for info on S&W 50 when I ran across this firearms production report (http://www.shootingindustry.com/02pages/SpecRep1.html). The reason I found it interesting was that I had aways assumed, and I know about assumptions, that Remington and Winchester/U.S. Repeating Arms were about equal in size and/or production numbers. What this report, based on year 2000 figures, shows is that Remington produces nearly twice the number of rifles. When I saw this what came to mind was the problem some have reported here about being able to find Stealths in the gun stores. It suddenly became obvious, there weren't as many to be had as the PSS's.
Beside finding some of the other production numbers interesting I figured that maybe knowing this might make those who have found a Stealth at one of their local shops think twice before passing on buying it.
Enjoy the report, I did!
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 21:46:16 (ZULU)
I have a custom (pre-ban) M1-A - double lug, Krieger barrel, everything tricked for high power. Only limiting factor is it does have a wood stock. I want to switch over to scope for all the advantages, mainly field shooting, but I could also shoot any/any matches in the area. Should I just buy an ARMS #18, or sell the M1-A and buy an AR-10? I am really unsure which way to go.
Thanks
Jerry
Jerry <gmueller@cablespeed.com>
Baltimore, MD, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 23:18:08 (ZULU)
Thanks for the info and feel free to e-mail anymore.
Has each service settled on different optics? If so, what are they?
I have asked a very knowledgable friend about the Sierra 77gr and it's preformance at min to long range in .223. If thee is anything interesting I'll post.
Thanks
Bill
Bill Byford <byfords@otbnet.com>
IL, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 23:37:45 (ZULU)
http://www.swfa.com/spottingscopes/tripods/index.html
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 00:03:57 (ZULU)
Anyone familier with the FN technique for chrome plating their SPR bolt gun barrels, for the accuracy they are getting out of that rifle? Supposedly they are using M240 MG barrels, or is that a rumor?
Terry
Terry Hoover <Thooverusmcv68@aol.com>
Kansas City , Kans, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 01:01:21 (ZULU)
I have an M1A laminated stock highpower stick that I scoped a while back to see what it would do. I ran into a couple of issues. I had to replace the wood handguard with a fiberglass one to clear the scope mount. The stripper clip-slot piece had to be removed for a piece that screwed to the scope mount. It was not a simple 2 minute conversion so I set mine back to iron sights where it belonged and used one of my bolt guns for scoped work. I don't have an AR-10 but with the removable top changing from scope to irons is a lot easier.
Later
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 01:03:44 (ZULU)
I too would keep the antique in it's current form. It sounds like a fine piece, and is valuable as it is. IMHO you'd be better served shooting the M1A in Service Rifle Long Range. It may not have the edge it once did at 600, but at 1000 I think it still has the edge over the 20" mousegun. (I can hear ya now Hockeyref ;)) Not many shooters shoot SR at long range anymore, at least in my neck of the woods.
What ya should do is get a friendly competition going with the Hockeyref as to who'll get their NRA Master Classification first with a service rifle. You with the antique or he with the hopped up mouse. Then the rest of us could place bets,, and have a big time with it too ;))
Boltster,
Nice find!! Looks like it'd make a fine little rifle rest if need be, as well as a spotter stand.
A little more info on the new Nikon tacticals. It has 105 MOA internal elevation and 104 windage as well. That ranks right up there with the 50mm NXS and edges out the MkIV M1 as far as internal travel. It also has a slightly modified MilDot. Time will tell, but it has the makings of a nice scope IMHO.
No bites on the best throat angle for differing ogive shapes huh....
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 01:45:30 (ZULU)
"A sniper from a SWAT team who just got a raise decides to buy a new scope for his rifle. He goes to a rifle shop, and asks the clerk to show him a scope.
The clerk takes out a very expensive scope, and says to the man, "This scope is so good, you can see my house all the way up on that hill."
The man fastens the scope onto his own rifle, has a look through the scope, and starts laughing.
"What's so funny?" asks the clerk.
"I see a naked man and a naked woman running around in the house" the man replies.
The clerk grabs the rifle from the man, and looks through the scope at his house. Then he hands the rifle back to the man along with two bullets and says, "Here are two bullets, I'll give you this scope for free if you take these two bullets, shoot my wife's head off and shoot the guy's dick off."
The man takes another look through the scope and says, "You know what? I think I can do that with one shot!""
Gooch out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 02:06:39 (ZULU)
Much of the early development at the AMU shop and at SOCOM on the SPR was done using the venerable B&L 10X40 "Tac 10" scope in ARMS #35 track-type rings with #35 Throw-Lever base. It seems that most of these rifles in the field are now wearing the illuminated Leupold 3.5-10 M3 LR scopes, with above mountings. The plan was to go to the C-More Systems 1.75-7.5x illuminated scope for this rifle, but I understand that there have been some production problems (probably fixed by now). The Marines have been using the US Optics SN-12 scope (I think) on their SMR version.
Along with the refurbished M16A1 lower receivers, the upper of choice has been the M4A1 flattop from Armalite. The front sights have been the PRI (Precision Reflex) flip-up model, and both ARMS and KAS (Knights) flip-up rear sights have been used. Most SPR's have had their A2 pistol grips replaced with the Falcon Ergo Ambi Grip. No more wraping the second knuckle of your index finger around the trigger!
Triggers have been from Accuracy speaks (single stage) and KAS for the two-stage option. A PRI modified charging handle is being used. These rifles have (mostly) been fitted with an OPS, Inc. combination muzzle brake/supressor interface to work with the OPS supressor (if furnished).
Forends and rails have been the KAC free-floating RAC, the PRI carbon fiber float tube reinforced with a special ARMS extended length Swan sleeve anchoring the flattop to the float tube, a similar setup from Young Manufacturing Co. using an aluminum tube and their own extended sleeve, the C-More full float handguard, and the full length ARMS SIR system. A majority of the SPR's are equipped with the Standard rifle (A2) buttstock, but there some in the field equipped with the Carbine (retractable) stock. The last that I heard there is no "definative" SPR model out there - but that's possibly changed by now. I just finished building a clone this week and have been firing the break-in shots in my yard before a trip to the range (the ol' lady is in Denver for a week on business HA!) I'll post results when I have them.
Terry,
Word has it that the Military has been experimenting with a 6.7mm (.270?) version of a necked up 5.56x45 but that's all I've heard at this point.
An engineer told me that FN came up with a new (secret? patented?) system to deposit industrial hard chrome to an extremely uniform and accurate thickness in their bores. Supposedly much too expensive for any but the largest companies to utilize. But watch Winchester!
Jerry,
I've got an M1A NM and an M25 clone - love 'em both! But if you face strong competition in your area, and want to win, IMHO get an AR10 and have George build a .260 out of it. FWIW
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 02:41:53 (ZULU)
Bought a Comp M2 and ARMS#39 rail for the M16A2. Seems like a good solid system. Have to throw kudos out to Kelly at ARMS, they did good by me.
While I'm talking up people, Rocky Green at Unertl and the rest of his crew get a nod. They hooked me up, and now if I can just get my unit to step up and deliver the $, things will be good.
I ran across and traded for a Winchester 1886 take down in 45-70. Full sized rifle, 26"octagon barrel. Pretty cool. Feel like Quigley down under or something. Thinking 405 LBT's at about 1800 or so.
The gentleman running my local IDPA league E-mailed me the other day volunteering to send letters to my troops. A touching gesture that caught me by surprise. There are lots of decent Americans out there just doing their thing below the radar. Sometimes I forget that, with all the miserable shit that gets the attention in the media. Reagan was right about the invisible moral majortity. Things like this make it all the BS worthwhile. God Bless. Semper Fidelis....Ken M
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 04:03:28 (ZULU)
Sorry mate, missed the question on throats.. Shoot me an email and I'll see what I can do for ya... Think winter shooting in SoDak is rough eh? ha...Those overturned tractor-trailers make a hell of a windbreak/shooting pad..
Gooch,
HA!
Anyone shoot Reflex Suppressors here? Pete? Ya notice if you shoot with the can, then unscrew and shoot without, that your POI shifts about 4" at 100 yds? Seems a little extreme to me, wondering if something isn't aligned, bush is loose or something. I know your harmonics change, youse get different vibes so your grouping might not be nice, but a 4" shift vertical? hmmm... Never really had the chance to play with them in the states, it's a shame we can't use them..
Hope youse made it thru VD with only minor scratches..
Later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 07:18:14 (ZULU)
A betterer alternative IMHO would be for the US to just get the hell out of the UN, kick them out of New York and let them find another place to whine to each other. Quit sending our hard earned money and troops overseas. Let Iraq, Iran or any other of those psychos go ahead and start some crap and see how long it takes for the women's underwear wearing countries to come a begging. When they do start begging, like the Russians say, TUFKY SHISHITZKI. It is time for the US to shut the doors, slap a 1000 mile radius around us and blow the living crap out of anything that even looks like it may cause trouble. Heck, it won't be long before people BORN IN AMERICA are going to be the minority. CLOSE THE FRIGGIN BORDERS (except to all of our Roster Hawg buddies)!!!!!
I am ready to get off of 24/7, 4 hour notice, alert status and start getting some motherfornicating sleep. I want the terrorist illegitimate sons to have enough -bleep bleep- testicles to come out and fight like real men, hand to hand, knives, guns or whatever they want to use. I don't give a feces. We'll fence off North Dakota or some other place and just have it out. Leave the military outside the fence and let the good old rednecks like me do our thing. It would be a hell of a lot better than sitting around waiting to get called out for another 911. This sucks and I'm getting more and more pissed off every day.
On another note......
I'm afeared that the match at Butner tomorrow will be cancelled due to the 'wintry mix' that the weather geeks say we will be getting. You may want to call the range before striking out. If it gets cancelled, I'm afraid Master Cockerham is going to have a major coronary event.
Speaking of AR10s......
An AR10 in 260? Sounds really sexy! I reckon the mags would be a sawbuck a piece though. Of course, after seeing what 223 mags are selling for now, it won't be long before they are a sawbuck a piece.
Final note......
I said to myself 6 months ago...."Self, buy up a load of cheap Isreali gas masks and hold them to sell when the sheeple get scared again." Like an idiot, I didn't. Last week I saw two go for over 200 friggin bucks on EBAY. Sometimes I just want to slap myself in the forehead.
I think I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, Bolt cranky and out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 11:37:36 (ZULU)
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 12:02:07 (ZULU)
"I want the terrorist illegitimate sons to have enough -bleep bleep- testicles to come out and fight like real men, hand to hand, knives, guns or whatever they want to use."
Of course you do. The last time a nation state came out and fought us "like a man" they were ground into kibbles in the most lopsided victory in history. Don't expect a group that isn't even a nation state to fight "symetrically" with the US of A. They know what would happen. We are faced with "asymetrical warfare" like it or not. We'll need to adapt to the new rules and win.
The threat we face today is made up of men that are neither cowards nor stupid. They are filled with hate toward us and intend to destroy our way of life by whatever means necessary. Do not underestimate them.
I think our leadership knows even better than we how dangerous these men are.
Our greatest challenge will be to stay the course inspite of the ever louder blatting of the sheeple around us. The sheeple can smell a wolf in the flock and they are scared. This fear is exploited by the bed-wetting peacenicks that think fondly of the "good-old-days" of the anti-war movement in the '60s and see this as an opportunity to put flowers in their hair, get high and get laid like they used to.
I suspect FDR allowed Pearl Harbor to be attacked so he wouldn't have to deal with this kind of anti-war behavior back in 1941. Today we can't afford to let a "Pearl Harbor" happen because with WMD technology the casualties would be in the six figures.
"Come out and fight like a man?" Don't count on it.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 12:11:40 (ZULU)
Agree to a point. However, men fight men, armies fight armies. They may not be stoopid, but they are cowards. If a man won't stand face to face and rumble with you he is a coward. Then again, if I was stoopid enough to believe that if I blow my ass up for Alah I will get 17 good lookin virgins as a prize, hell I might do it too.
People call me paranoid. You damn skippy I am (in the vernacular of my daughters). I watched 'Red Dawn' a hundred times. I have read 'The Invasion', 'The Cobra Event', 'Germs' and 'The Hot Zone' a dozen times each. If people in this country don't believe it can happen there is no hope. One of these days the sheeple are going to wake up with only grissle on there asses cause somebody is going to get the meat.
Sorry to preach to the choir. Got up too early today I reckon.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 12:31:19 (ZULU)
Blair may have the eloquence, but Bush has the favor of his people because he doesn't sugarcoat anything. Thats the difference between the US and Britain and the rest of the world, people actually care about their country in the US, although at times we doubt it, the US is the most patriotic in the world. That's the problem, Bush calls a spade a spade and as much as we like that approach, the rest of the world chafes. Blair does not have the support of his people like Bush has of his, and no matter how pretty a speech Tony and his cabinet make, it isn't making a difference. The sheeple of the world are pussified. What is going the difference, god forbid, but it's gonna happen, is another attack.. I mean they could catch every wannabe terrorist that comes in the borders, but people will not align until it hits them personally, hits home, which means another attack in their borders. Then it will hit the fan, and everyone will come running to the US for aid.
And you're gol' damned right we should get out of the UN, NATO as well. I think we should do it just to make a point that we don't piss around, we mean business, and demand the respect we gave these countries when we decided to liberate them..
And don't close the borders yet eh...Give me some notice if you do Bolt, ha...
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 13:28:23 (ZULU)
I was listening to National Public Radio on the way home the other day... The interview was with a representative of ANSWER, the group that has so efficiently organized the large peace protests across the US (I don't know about abroad).... The interviewer asked "isn't Answer in some way related to the Worker's World Party?"... after about ten minutes of redirect, the interviewee acknowledged the direct link...
I suggest we all check out the politics of the worker's world party to understand what they stand for and how they are having a significant influence in American politics and public opinion. Just to whet your whistle... they are pro-Marxists, anti-Semitic group, they supported Milosovich <sp?>, the crackdown on the Tiananmen square uprising, etc... real nice folks.... The peace-niks acknowledge they are aware of the group's politics, but feel the greater evil of a democratic country attempting to protect itself from rouge terrorist states must be stopped at all costs, including, apparently, freedom.
How can we have so many stupid people manage to organize and assemble in one place? Perhaps there is a Shepard managing the herd animals?
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 13:32:17 (ZULU)
Strike the shepard, scatter the sheep.
Nick
Nick Anzano <nanzano@mindspring.com>
Milton, NJ, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 13:53:15 (ZULU)
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 14:10:37 (ZULU)
I sent a request via email to the French embassy the other day. I ask what "their" plan was. To my surprise, I received a response from a french diplomate. It was a 19K email so I won't post it here but will forward to anyone who might be curious. Or, strangely enough, it can be read on the CNN web page today as the French position. HA!
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 14:10:48 (ZULU)
Fatboy~ you setting up good laugh at my expense?? It'll be years before I get a LR card just because of the round count per match vs the rounds needed for classification. (Now if I shot LR at Perry....) The .308 and the AR at 1000 are basically even ballistically if you shoot 175's vs 80's.... now if I hop it up to the 90's, I have a slight advantage (and I need it due to the sight radius - not a big difference between an X and an 8 looking over an AR's sights at 1000). If you & JR get into the leade angle thing could youse bumz 'cc' me on it. Sounds interesting...... anything to expand my personal knowledge.
>>>>>"We are faced with "asymetrical warfare" like it or not. We'll need to adapt to the new rules and win."<<<<<<
The only rule to learn here is do what it takes to WIN - and know that you're gonna get some lumps along the way! I look at this as a street fight where any one of the assorted shadows around you might just hide a badguy that'll jump in at any moment. Any of youse remember your younger days where you got into fights over stupid shit like someone talked to your girlfriend? Seems that when guys tried to call me out for talking to their squeeze they always had a bunch of friends for "backup". I'd just say "Fuck it, I don't need your friends jumping in on this when my back is turned so either I'll find you when you're alone, or you, you, you, and you lets go. Pack a lunch 'cuz I'll be hungry when I'm done." I may not have been able to kick every ones' ass but I guaranteed someone had a trip to the hospital if I had to fight more than one of them! Whatever the idiot wanted to fight over usually became unimportant, a few took me up on the offer and we had a grand old time. I can't remember the last time I had a go 1 on 1 - off of the ice!
The point is you do what ya gotta do to stomp their little dicks into the dirt! All's fair!
Any comments on the plane going down in South America. Columbia? I heard that they found two dead crew members still in the plane - one US - with bullet holes in them. Thought the rebels had captured the rest....
Steve ~ Hockyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
Tired of this frigging snow, SW PA, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 15:40:49 (ZULU)
Incoming mail with no attachment!
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 15:52:39 (ZULU)
>>>The "shot heard round the world" is commonly thought of as the beginning of open conflict in the American Revolution. I was very surprised to realize that NONE of my young firefighters have been taught WHY the redcoats marched on Lexington and Concord... do you know? I would think it pretty important to understand what the 'final straw' that the colonists found so intolerable that they took up arms against a significantly superior army of occupation.<<<
If I recall correctly, the Brits were going to Concord and Lexington to confiscate the towns' central store of weapons. Things like cannon and muskets for those townfolks that didn't have their own weapons.
Did I hit the "X"?
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 16:12:42 (ZULU)
You wrote, "Today we can't afford to let a "Pearl Harbor" happen" but it's to late for that statement because 9-11 did happen. Past or present we can't say whether or not it was knowingly allowed to happen but we can influence the decision for anyone to try it again. But it is almost certain that if we take no action it will happen again and again.
Anyone got any "we're not interested in taking your guns" land outside of California, I'm looking for a new home to retire to? Based on the current state of affairs I might even pull the plug early, this place is beginning to stink! Let me correct myself, it's been stinking for some time, it's really worse than ever! I just heard that the Great Western Gun Show has settled with the County of Los Angeles. For those that aren't aware LA County passed an ordinance banning the sale of guns on County property. The twist in this case is that the fair grounds were leased to the City of Pomona. Under the settlement they won't hold any more gun shows on LA County property and my tax dollars are going toward the million dollar plus settlement LA County is paying them. Look around more counties are doing the same thing. Also, City of Los Angeles approved a yet to be drafted ordinance banning .50 caliber rifles in the city.
Got to get off the subject before the blood pressure gets to high, later...
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 17:04:41 (ZULU)
Spotter calls a hit, splash one marxist shepard...good shooting.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 17:05:55 (ZULU)
Move to TN. Land is cheap (and it's pretty nice land), two 1K ranges in Midd Tenn, No state income tax, Shall Carry law, 2 gun shows a month in Nashville. We are the 2nd lowest taxed state in the country until you add federal taxes, then were fifth lowest. I'll pay my 9.75% sales tax thank you ;)) Let me know when you're serious about moving and I'll mail out the real estate flyers/magazines.
JR,
I'll be sending a mail tonight, you'll get it too Hockeyref.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 18:31:21 (ZULU)
They're always there when they need us."
--Dick Knifing, Channel 13 KRQE in Albequrque
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 19:26:11 (ZULU)
The reason I was considering the AR-10 over the SR-25 is because I can get the M1-A Magazines I have converted to AR-10 configuration. I was told you couldn't do that with the SR-25. Any body know for sure?
Also the Upper Receivers are interchangable on the AR-10. Again not so with the SR-25 unless I am mistaken?
Just thinking an upper in .243, .260, .308, and why not a real thumper like .358 Winchester? Thinking way beyond my wallet.
Cabin fever in Baltimore. Been in the teens and twenties for most of the week again. Snowing like hell now,expecting more tonight.
Jerry
Jerry <gmueller@cablespeed.com>
Baltimore, MD, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 19:35:59 (ZULU)
On their knees...........
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 19:44:30 (ZULU)
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/charleskrauthammer/ck20030213.shtml
-
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 19:45:49 (ZULU)
Seuss <samiam@netrax.net>
Inbound snow in, PA, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 20:48:45 (ZULU)
There is likely to be a .260 AR10T at ASC2 as part of the NJ three man team I'm attending with... Paul and I plus a new guy.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 21:08:23 (ZULU)
**********************************************************************
"The French, they are a peculiar race, they fight with their feet - and f**k with their face". - Oscar Wilde
**********************************************************************
But seriously folks, did any of you ever notice what the French word for 'shower' is. It goes a long way towards explaining why Frenchmen either smell really bad - or they're pussies!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 00:48:49 (ZULU)
Beginning to believe the widely held opinion on standard scope mounts. I just finished resighting my varmint rifle for the 3rd time in a year. The Redfield mount & rings (came with the rifle originally) seem to move with very little cause. On the other hand, the .308 with Leupold mounts did a 1 1/2 gainer off the workbench to a concrete floor last year and never moved. From my general gunsmithing days, I got the impression that Leupold either heat treated their mounts & rings or used harder steel. Gonna budget for Mk 4 bases & Smith Enterprises/Burris rings.
Bolt-won't be making the Butner trip. Between wife & work weeping & wailing just doesn't look good.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 01:22:26 (ZULU)
Made it back from the SHOT Show. Whhheeeeeeeeeeeew. Ya'll gotta go. Unbelievable. All the folks were there. Jeff Cooper, Chris Caracci, Denny Calker, Doug Koening, Rob Leatham, Dieter Anschutz, you name 'em.
Hell, I got three job offers and two marriage proposals.
Met Andy's Papa Grande finally, the Lowlight operative from the Hide, George and Marty's whole gang (what a party), Rod Hansen, Bruce and his lovely bride and others. Undude nailed me for two slings.
Met an Israeli SNIPER. Cool CHICK. Married to a doctor. She sez "I shoot 'em, the ole man fixes 'em up". Gotta love it. Talked me into doing a table dance in front of a thousand men at the concession stand for my damn SWAT shirt. I quit before the alternate lifestyle folk started waving dollar bills. Had a Badger shirt to put on thank goodness.
Met all the 2112s from USMC PWS Quantico. SEMPER FI GENTLEMEN !!!
I got damn drunk at Marty's gig. THANKS AGAIN MARTY AND GEORGE / FREE BEER ROCKS! Forgot to call momma that night though. oops.
Yeah, oopses ass. Payin' today. "Where the hell were you at....?"
Making up is hard to do. Isn't that an old Neil Sedaka song or something? I digress.
Head still hurts from last week. Dudes, we had a truck full of scateboard helmets. Just didn't wear 'em. Guess I just shoulda ducked more at a slower speed.
Maybe momma will slam it into the headboard later and reopen the wound. he heh. Ooops, busted on the 'puter. Gotta go.
coming Dear ...
see ya guys
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 01:30:17 (ZULU)
Jerry - You are correcton the AR-10's being interchangable, they are also cheaper, have beeter service, and the mags are cheaper. USA mags run $10, conversion kit $30, and USGI base and spring $3.50. Throw away the USA spring and floor plate, and save the USA box for proof you used an existing mag. So two for a saw buck.
Alan - the big problem now with the .308 SR's is production of rifles and mags. Knight has bought a new, larger facility but it will be a while before they move. 3000 rifles a year is about all Knight can produce. The other issue is that SR's and Ar .308's use different mags, and with the ban, the 20 round SR mags are in very short supply. AR-10 mags are easy to get. Amalite has a new plant, and has sold some to us and some allies, but nothing of any volume.
Your info on the .270 for the AR-15 is appreciated. I have heard the same, but that the case is a new design with a rebated rim to match the .223 rim, but allow for 30 grains of propellant pushing a 115 grain boolet. The shoulder is supposed to be set back to allow for the long boolet to fit into the mag. Supposedly only barrel, buffers, and recoil springs need changing to swithch over the rifles. MV is around 2800 fps with a range of 800 yards. BC should be over .55 if they do it right. Seems real optomistic, but I have heard this from several sources. I'd bet it looks alot like the old .280 round the british played with in the '50's. The one thing thats for sure is that their is no comon standard yet for the rifles.
Take care,
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 02:22:16 (ZULU)
incoming mail no attatchments.
Steve ~ Hockeyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
siting here decompressing , Got a rug rat induced headache!, - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 03:23:01 (ZULU)
Just a related side note. When you mount/zero a scope on a ring/base that has a course adjustment screw system make sure you mechanically zero the windage on the scope and make all of your windage adjustments with the base course adj screws before messing around with the turrets. If you dont do this you might end up running out of windage in a stiff wind someday and actually interfere with elevation adjustments.
When you get the point of impact as close as you can with the base course adj screws then lock them down and fine tune it with the turret.
Somebody explain to the class why excessive windage on a scope can effect the elevation turret??? I had a AL Trooper have this happen once and we had to totally rezero his scope. Anybody???? Beuller????
Gooch out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Japan - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 05:00:11 (ZULU)
Note that even Qadaffi later denounced the 9-11 events but I cant find anywhere where Iraq said anything about it. Kind of damning if you ask me.
"An unidentified person talked in the name of the Japanese extremist " red army" has claimed responsibility for the series of aggressions which took place on Tuesday in Washington and New York. This was in a telephone call he made with a Jordanian paper and justified these aggressions in the desire to revenge the victims of Hiroshima killings.
The former chairman of the Jordanian writers Union Fakhri Qawar, who is also the chief editor of the Jordanian daily al-Wahda said in a statement to the AFP that:" an unidentified person who speaks Arabic but in a foreign accent claimed, in a telephone call with the paper, responsibility for the series of aggressions in the USA and stressed that these aggressions were carried out in revenge of the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki." Qawar added that the speaker did not give details and closed the telephone receiver and Qawar stressed that he takes this claim seriously.
Several Arab countries denounced the aggressions against the US and sent cables of denunciation and condemnation to Washington. These were sent by the Lebanese President Emil Lahoud, the chairman of the Palestinian Authority Yasser Arafat, saudi Arabia, Jordan, King Muhammad 5th of Morocco, President Muhammad Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, President Ali Abdullah Saleh of Yemen and from the Kuwaiti President.
Moreover, Islamic organizations expressed their strong condemnation to these attacks and the founder of the Hamas movement Sheikh Ahmad Yassin denied his movement to have any link to the said attacks. Sheikh Yassin said:" Our battle is only with the Zionist occupiers in Palestine." Both the democratic and people's fronts for the Liberation of Palestine denied any link to what happened in the USA. In a statement the Islamic Jihad movement said:" we are against any thing target the civilians."
Just a thought..
Gooch out again...
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 05:23:31 (ZULU)
This identical same scenario is used in the Tom Clancy book, "Executive Orders," with the exception being that there was only 1 plane involved. In this case a rogue Japanese pilot flies a 747 into the Capitol building and kills most of Congress, the President and also the Supreme Court. The pilot's actions were said to be retribution for the outcome of WW2 in the Pacific Theatre...and the pilot acted alone. The copyright on this book (if I'm not mistaken) is 1996.
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 06:33:31 (ZULU)
Back from two days at the Shot Show. I have met a lot of people that I see their names on the internet. Good to be able to put a face to the name. I enjoyed talking with each one of you, and hope to see you again at some of the shoots.
While I was away I received a thank you card from Steve Suttles for the get well card I sent him. THANKS!!!! I hope you get back to your regular self soon.
TonyM
TonyM <tam308@aol.com>
FL, US of A!!!! - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 13:26:50 (ZULU)
"Somebody explain to the class why excessive windage on a scope can effect the elevation turret??? I had a AL Trooper have this happen once and we had to totally rezero his scope. Anybody???? Beuller????"
Now,, I'm guessin' here,, but I figure if you run the erector cell to one side or the other, it's no longer centered in the tube. Since there's more room in the center of the scope tube than than there is on the sides, when you run the knobs up or down the cell will contact the tube before it runs out of travel on the adjustment screws.
How'd I do?
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 13:50:59 (ZULU)
Got me a new puter yesterday. Running this old one until Monday when the Roadrunner truck comes by. Yep, decided to go with Roadrunner for a while and see how it does. Ended up with a P4/1.8Ghz/256ram/40gig drive/RW/N/98, 40x12x40x CD burner, 1.44 Floppy, Hyundai ImageQuest L70B flat screen. Can't imagine what it's going to be like trying to change email addresses. Haven't had to do it for 8 years. Plus have to set Dough Lady up an email address.
Man, I tell you what, Fox News has the best hotties on the tube. Easy on the eyes.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 15:54:00 (ZULU)
Great job on the scope answer. I've always used a dime and a quarter to illustrate this principle when face to face with someone who doesn't seem to understand it. Center the dime flat atop the quarter, then ask him to put some windage on the dime. Then instruct him to try to gain maximum elevation with the dime, within the confines of the quarter, while holding the windage previously set. This example saves a thousand words with some people!
Titan,
Thanks for the heads up. Got a question for you! I've heard that Knights have stopped making their CMP/DCM version of the SR-15, which I thought to be possibly the best factory built Service Rifle ever made. Is this also because of lack of ability to meet production levels already committed for, and do you think that they'll ever resume production of this rifle when they expand their facilities? I competed with a borrowed one once, and it had the best two-stage AR trigger that I've ever used, besides being a fine rifle in itself!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 17:31:26 (ZULU)
Alan, rumor has it that Knight sells the MkIIMod0 to the military for $6500 each, which means about $4000 profit in eack kit that goes out the door. This will give you some insight as to why the Sr-15 and civilian stuff is drying up. There is no point making $1000 dollars when you can make $4000. Besides, for what Knight charges for their match rifle, you can get a hand built one from Compass lake. I have shot the Knight CMP rifle, and while it is a nice one, the Armalite and the Bushmaster are just as good. I will duck now for incomming.
People -- What we are withnessing now with this anti war crap, and the German/French( Pussy ) Connection is an all out economic war between the Euro and the Dollar. Since the Dollar's value is only based upon our economic reputation, if OPEC switches to Euros our economy goes in the shit real quick. IF we prevail, then OPEC is dead and the dollar becomes the truely dominant currency of the world. By invading Iraq, all hope of the Euro becoming the standard goes down the tiolet. The Alliance of Gutless Wonders is tring to get Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, and Saudi to switch to pricing oil in Euro's, instead of dollars. Russia is on the fence as to which way to go, and since we gutted there economy in 1998 they may be looking for a little payback, but they want to be on the winning side most of all. The big part of our taking IRAQ is to stablize the world situation politically, and I clearly think that we will make an example of him that our N Korean Buddy and anyone else will take seriously. It also would not suprise me that The Gutless Wonders have struck a deal with the terroist to behave like they are in exchange for terroism free zones in there countries. This is not to mention all the GDR and French chemicals in Iraq and other places. Keep in mind too, that the money behind these peace protests is coming from the banks of the GDR and France through the old communist/socialist networks. We have to win this or the world is seriously screwed for generations!!!!!
Can anyone say Dark Ages II
OK Rant off.
Bye
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 19:45:38 (ZULU)
danny mull <drm8194@hotmail.com>
akron, oh, - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 19:55:34 (ZULU)
I'm looking for a scope for my VS .308. I mostly use my rifle for target shooting (some club matches, nothing major) and also for deer hunting, (once a year). I'd like to have the capability to hit targets way out there (i.e. 500 - 1000 yd. range), just for my personal satisfaction.
1: I'm leaning towards a Vari XIII Leupold M1 or M3 3.5-10. Does anyone have a strong preference between those two? I have no experience with either, so your feedback will be welcomed.
2: What about the Springield Gov. models 4.5 - 14 with the illum. ret.? Does anyone have any experience with them? For the money, it seems like they have some good features but I've only seen a couple of reviews.
Thanks in advance for your insight.
corbett mortensen <rexhavoc3@cox.net>
omaha, ne, usa - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 21:44:59 (ZULU)
re: Dr. Ruth Westheimer
http://www.germanheritage.com/biographies/mtoz/westheimer.html
excerpt:
Ruth was 17 with no home, family or country when WW II ended . All she had was the hope of starting over again in a place where she would feel welcome. That place was supposed to be Palestine. But Palestine was not the land of milk and honey of which Ruth had heard. On May 14, 1948, Israel declared its independence. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Irak immediatley attacked the new nation, and once again Ruth's world collapsed. Ruth, dedicated to the building of a Jewish homeland, joined the Haganah and was trained as a sniper. On her twentieth birthday she had just finished up guard duty when an Arab shell exploded at her feet, seriously injuring her. Her recovery was slow, but she survived to walk again.
rod regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com>
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 22:39:22 (ZULU)
Check the archives.
The M1 vs M3 thing has been killed here. I and several others who regularly post here own both and there are benefits to each. Don't get wrapped around the axle about the 1 MOA elev adjustment on the M3. You will be right on (or darn close) at 100 or closer.
Leave the Springfield. The Leupold is the deal.
Get one with a Gen II reticle from Premier and you will be good to go to.
PJC
PJC <mywifeiscrazy2@yahoo.com>
Upstate, SC, US of A - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 22:49:07 (ZULU)
If anyone missed the sniper series on The History Channel, they are showing it again starting Tues. Feb 18 at 8.00 pm central time.
Take care!
Rob Opp
Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 23:38:05 (ZULU)
We have Dr. Ruth Westheimer: Doctor of sex, yet a trained military sniper.
And then we have Master Brian K. Sain: trained sniper, but also chick magnet and sex god in his own mind.
OK, what I propose is we commission the two of them to spawn, Preferably together and create an advancement in the human race. A whole new and improved genetic species. A new super human race. Think of the endless possibilities.
Just kidding Sir Sain. I'm sitting here board out of my mind with the in-laws and I have to read you exciting report about the Shot Show. Some times life isn't fair... Anyway thanks for the Shot Show update. Any new toys to get excited about? Anything worth going in debt over?
Oh BTW "Bolt for President". Your take on the current situation is right on!!!
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 00:25:26 (ZULU)
Out here
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Japan - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 01:50:38 (ZULU)
He hee. Yeah Johnny, my mind is a scary place. Never a dull moment.
Dr. Ruth might say: "Ja, zat Cajun Sharfshuetzen is vull ov Vullshitzen" ha.
Seriously dude, the show was great. Try and go next year. Vegas is even bigger and is cheaper to get to and stay anyway. Lots of folks told me that. Maybe you can make it next year.
SC guys were really good people.
Later man ...
PS: REF: "OK, what I propose is we commission the two of them to spawn, Preferably together and create an advancement in the human race."
Lemme know when you guys get the commission money together.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 01:58:04 (ZULU)
Don't think Loc-Tite would help much, they don't have the dovetail/inverted cone heads on the base windage screws & matching cuts on the lower ring section anymore. Those would lock the rear ring against movement. Thanks for the suggestion.
Frogs revisited- did that long list of French military "highlights" include getting thrown out of Mexico? They tried to install Emperor Maximillian -fight produced the legendary battle of Camerone for the Legion, Cinco de Mayo for the Mexicans. Gee- think of all the revolutionary movements the French have helped succeed.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 02:23:53 (ZULU)
ARMS came out with a new version of their S.I.R. system for 15/16s. Slimmer handguard, step down upper pic rail with another that hinges over it for the best in mount height adjustability (you can use either). I will be receiving one of the first 50 Military versions on the market next week. Plan to T/E it and do an article. Best feature is, it comes in anodized green (as well as black) to match the furniture on my green stocked, green hogue gripped, RRA M4.
My shit usually gets spray painted anyway but my M4 just rocks with the black/green scheme.
S&W came out with a 1911 clone. Only real difference is an external, slide mounted extractor. They also came out with a .50 cal., long barreled, 686 looking revolver with muzzle break. Damn cylinder looks like a new garbage can. Both seem like shitty ideas to me. Bet they don't sell many. What are they thinking?
Plenty of cool assed knives on the way from SOG, Al Mar, CRKT and Benchmade.
Some cool assed shooting glasses out there too. Cheap. UVEX GENESIS. Look and fit similiar to some Oakleys. Quick interchangeable, multi colored lenses. You can literally tie the frames in an overhand knot without the lenses in 'em. Fully adjustable temple pieces all the way around (Length and angle). Anywhere from 8 to 14 bucks. Outfitting my whole Team with 'em. Do a Google search on UVEX GENESIS for pics. Passed Mil VO Ballistic testing (I don't know what that is but it sounds good).
Can't go wrong with these fellas.
Beautiful double shotguns and custom stuff as to be expected.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 02:29:31 (ZULU)
De Oppresso Liber
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 02:36:18 (ZULU)
It was a good time. Plenty of neat stuff and as usual there were beautiful ladies all over the place but with Sain there we mortals didn't stand a chance.
John and Rod were working hard trolling for prizes to add to the table at the ASC#2. They scored big.
The hospitality gig that Marty and George put on was fun.
Oh well time to go back to work.....below zero here..again.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 09:50:06 (ZULU)
I see that Savage has released a new rifle in their "law enforcement" series- -Model 10FP-LE2B. Comes in .308,1 in 10 twist, heavy barrel (24"), the new adjustabe "accu trigger" and a McMillan stock, all for a suggsted list price of $912. Street price is probably lower.
I don't want to get into a new Savage vs Rem. battle, or start a new one, but am looking for some constructive advice on wether or not to purchase this rifle. The specs look good to me.
Is the 1 in 10 twist too slow, or too fast for a .308? I know thats a loaded question, because bullet weight and velocity come in to play, but assuming i'm looking for accuracy at longer ranges, I would probably be looking at loading 168's or 175s.
Thanks!
Good luck to our Armed Forces, where ever they may be.
rob ratvasky <rratvask@tricountyi.net>
mifflintown, pa, usa - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 16:05:45 (ZULU)
I agree, the Rem. vs. Win. vs. Sav. thing has been beat to death here. That new model Savage that you're talking about sounds really interesting! Do you know what model McMillan stock that they're using?
My experiences with the Savage have been very positive once the old trigger was replaced and that flexible thing that they called a stock was replaced. They seem to have very good barrels and shoot well especially for a low priced stick. With the new trigger and stock it looks like a sure winner.
If you can buy it for around $600 to $700Max it'll probably be a real good deal. If they are holding you up for more than that either wait for the prices to come down to earth, or buy a Stealth! Or even a PSS, but you'll have to keep your fingers crossed for a good one.
A big disadvantage with the Savage when compared to the Remington and a lesser degree to the Winchester is the lack of aftermarket goodies such as replacement bottom metal and a shortage of scope rails to choose from. That should be taken into consideration when choosing your rifle.
You'll be fine with a 1/10 twist especially if you're going to stick with the 168's and 175's. Even 150gr. bullets should work well - it's awfully hard to "overstabilize" a bullet, but it's relatively easy to under-spin one, such as a 175SMK out of a 1/14 barrel. But even that wouldn't surprise me anymore.
HTH, ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 17:01:05 (ZULU)
the way I read it, the LE-2B comes with a 26.5" barrel and a McMillan A3 stock. I don't see how you could go wrong.
I'm gonna have to admit,, I've been thinking about a Savage for a few months now. I'm in the planning stages of a stainless Long action with McMillan Prone. Changeable bolt heads and pre-chambered Pac-Nor barrels in 6.5x284/7-300WSM/308win Palma. I think a rifle like this would be a decent test bed. Now, I wouldn't expect this to be a hardened rifle, or the MOST accurate rifle in the safe, but a compromise to test calibers, and it'll allow me to test the feasibility of a new match chambers and twists without carrying 3 rifles all the time, or having to have them fitted to the rifle professionally.
For a strict match rifle, I'll still go with a dedicated, non switch barrel rifle, but for testing,,,, what if a chamber/twist sucks and you had it built?
SSS makes good triggers for them now, Badgers makes rails, McMillan is inletting all the tac/comp stocks for the Savage now, several companies are making pre-fit barrels and Sharp Shooter Suppy sells every thing you could ever want to build one. All you need is a headspace guage (or fired case) and a barrel nut wrench.(a little over simplified)
The actions I've handled weren't the smoothest things,, but for the money,,, why not give one a try??
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 17:04:03 (ZULU)
800 was total FOF. Did some shooting at 400 but not much after sitting in -2° weather and a 10 mph wind. The only thing I saw in 2 days was 1 cottontail. Boy those Vmax sure make the fur fly. (Ha)
Have any of you guys had cracks in the stock behind the bolt on your Stealth's? I noticed them while hunting this weekend. I have only shot about 75 round with it. The cracks are small but one of them is in a half circle ant it looks as if I could lose a small chunk of stock. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
JLU
Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 17:09:00 (ZULU)
Had some blokes over from N Ireland(catholics and protestants strangely enough, so they can get along together !!) hunting pigs this weekend, one venue got snowed out, and they didn't do too good at the other, noisy clothes, pissing near the bait and talking on the phone and fidgeting about, the only one who got a pig was a policeman.
JR, Peter Carr has a reflex and is real happy with it, i'll ask him what his change in impact is, I've got the husher and it drops POI by ... ?? what was it now, either 4 or 6" i can't remember off hand but the data is with the rifle. I guess how much depends on the weight of the can, the thickness of your barrel, length of the barrel and the leverage it puts on your barrel, ie, the husher hangs completely off the end of the bbl and the reflex sits back over the bbl. now the 4 or 6'is on the sporter barrel, on the 20"fat barrel i sem to remember that the change was minimal, infact i think it shot to POA, but if you rattled of a few rounds quickly the group was larger than without the can, if you let the can clear of gas/smoke and cool, it put them in the same place. there must be a scientific formula for this some where???
Joe, ref the froggies, Get Steve(bisley tiger) to send you the email he sent me with the attachment of the froggy army magazine, its hillereouse !!! infact Steve, send it to every one here, that is to good for all not to see !!!
What was said about the Euro V the Dollar, i'd go along with that, thats what all this German French treaty pally pally shit is about, they have a domination wish.
Anybody know why there are rows of trees planted along the sides of the roads through France and into Germany? its so the Brit and American servicemen can march in the shade on thier way to bale the europeans out yet again.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 17:28:59 (ZULU)
One of the members at my club had a PSS about three years ago that had a H-S stock that was begining to crack as you described. I recommended that he call Janet Thompson at H-S and ask her opinion. Janet asked him to send his stock to her, and in less than two weeks a brand new stock was in his hot little hands. No trouble since!
Alas, I understand that Janet has left the company, and IMHO it's their loss. She was great! Possibly, JR could suggest a person to help you at H-S, I have no idea who's handling their CR now.
Chris,
Your Savage switch barrel idea has my gears turning, especially since they're now using a A3 stock. An economical way to test for several calibers with one basic platform, and switching barrels appears to be pretty easy on the Savage since I do that with great sucess on AR-15's all the time.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 22:04:20 (ZULU)
check this thread out on www.longrangehunting.com. Click on my name.
The guys on SnipersHide also like the Savages, but they tweek them a bit differently.
Wonder where Paul Cockerham is,,,, He's a dedicated Savage shooter,,, bet he could shed some light on this....
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 23:28:13 (ZULU)
I have a 10FP. They are good rifles to get started with. I shoot both 168 SMK and 175 SMK with good accuracy. Mine tends to like the 175 a little better but both are good. The new ones have a new type trigger.
The barrels are interchangable on them, that's what the funky barrel nut is for. You have to make sure of bolt length and mag length, you can't use long cartridges on a short action. You will need a barrel wrench,barrel vise, bolt heads(or complete bolt)and gauges.
Midway has a set-up that allows barrel swaps for do-it-yourselfers. They also have 18 different caliber barrels(Adams) available, so you don't have to use factory barrels. Check Guns&Ammo Dec.2002 "Presto-Chango". I believe this would also work with custom made barrels.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 03:26:33 (ZULU)
War hero thwarted Nazi atomic bomb plans
CanWest News Service
Friday, February 14, 2003
Mr. Skinnarland, who died in Toronto, was pivotal in one of the war's greatest sabotage operations.
Norwegian-born Einar Skinnarland, who 60 years ago this month helped turn the tide of the Second World War by thwarting Nazi plans to build an atomic bomb, has died at the age of 84.
The efforts of Mr. Skinnarland and his colleagues to blow up material needed to produce atomic weapons formed the basis of the film The Heroes of Telemark.
Mr. Skinnarland was an engineer at the Vemork hydroelectric plant that was able to produce small quantities of heavy water needed for plutonium production.
According to war historian Stephen Stratford, British intelligence learned in 1940, shortly after the Nazi occupation of Norway, that the Vemork plant, west of Oslo, had been ordered to increase heavy water production to nearly 1,400 kilograms a year. By January, 1942, that number had increased to more than 4,500 kilograms a year.
During a holiday in March, 1942, Mr. Skinnarland escaped Norway and, after helping to hijack a coastal steamer, made his way to Aberdeen, Scotland. Mr. Skinnarland gave British intelligence detailed information on the Vemork plant and the Nazi guarding system.
Mr. Stratford's British military Web site says Mr. Skinnarland agreed to return to Vemork as a guide for a sabotage mission, and he was subsequently dropped over the Hardanger Vidda mountains on March 28, 1942.
Mr. Skinnarland quickly became close friends with the chief engineer of the plant and was able to obtain vital information to sabotage operations.
The first mission to paralyze the plant ended in disaster after two gliders carrying British Royal Engineers crashed in poor weather while attempting to land near the plant and make contact with Mr. Skinnarland.
A second attempt by a six-man team from the Norwegian Special Operations Executive in February, 1943, paralyzed the plant. It is still regarded as one of the greatest sabotage operations of the Second World War.
In the summer of 1943, Mr. Skinnarland learned the Vemork plant had restarted production of heavy water. The U.S. Air Force launched a bombing raid but was unable to harm the plant, protected under seven concrete floors.
Still, Norwegian technicians were able to convince German officials the plant was no longer operational.
In 1944, Mr. Skinnarland was told by the British the plant was to be moved to Germany with the stocks of heavy water. Assisted by Knut Haukelid, a Norwegian operative, he learned the shipment was to happen via ferry boat.
Along with other Norwegian resistance agents, Mr. Haukelid strapped explosive charges to the ferry, which blew up and sank in 300-metre-deep water in Lake Tinnsjo in February, 1944.
Mr. Skinnarland emigrated to the United States shortly after the war, moving to Toronto in 1965 to take a job with a construction firm.
He died of a brain hemorrhage in Toronto on Dec. 5, 2002. He is survived by his wife, the former Trudi Gans, born in Fairview, Alta., five children, six grandchildren and his sister, Solveig.
(Ottawa Citizen)
TorF <torf@aftenposten.no>
Oslo, Norway - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 08:37:54 (ZULU)
Pete L- Gaby and I had talked about getting over there to visit her family in April but with all the hate and discontent going on between the good ole USA and the Fatherland we are probably going to postpone. I guess I'll owe you the first round a little longer. It is too bad about the problems. I've always been treated great in Germany and in France. I really like Paris (ummm food)and the north coast (they seem to remember a little better what our two country's did for them up there).
JLU-I had a similar cracking problem on the nose of one of my stocks. H&S had me send it to them and I had a new one ASAP. That was a few months ago. It shouldn't be a problem to get a new one, they were johnny on the spot, no questions asked.
Rob R- Savage rifles-My 110FP is my Frankenstien gun. Anything I want to just try or do to a rifle I do to this rifle before any other. I have abused it like nobody's business and it keeps soldiering on and is actually shooting better than ever. Now that they have gone to a real stock, instead of the limp noodle they had been using, I think it's going to open a lot more doors for them. I wouldn't hesitate to get that latest version.
Tonight I got to work and had a nice suprise. All the replacement parts I wanted ordered to fix up our M16's had actaully been ordered and arrived...just when you give up on the supply guy he comes through...go figure ! I love opening a big box full of FA parts sitting around fixing guns =) I did replace all our extractor springs with the enhanced springs produced by Ken Elmore at SAW. These have really been the magic medicine for the black guns. I even put them in all my AR's. I highly recommend them for your consideration.
New math:
1500 rounds of loose 7.62x39 + 1 wooden ChiCom ammo crate with a loose bottom = 30 minutes of digging around in the mud to find all the rounds.
Take it easy all,
Joe S.
Joe S. <spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, CA, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 13:14:10 (ZULU)
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 14:46:59 (ZULU)
It seems there was an RI (Ranger Instructor) that was looking to make a little extra money between classes. After spending his last wedding anniversary neck deep in the swamps with Ranger students, he was determined to do something extra special for his wife this year.
Setting up a stand along the coast near Ft. Walton Beach, he was thrilled when a tourist walking by stopped to admire one of his alligator teeth necklaces.
When the tourist exclaimed that pearl necklaces down the street were less than half the price of his necklaces, he replied, "Lady, anyone can open an oyster."
Hoooah!
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 14:46:59 (ZULU)
Back from Shot Show. Had damm fine time. Met lots of great guys. Really pissed because no matter where I went I missed Col. Chandler. Maybe next year. That damm Kevin had me laughing all the time. Brian insane, well he is just that and good to go at the same time. Another one of the good guys.
Met a bunch of you and did not find one of you I did not instantly like.
Only true thing that seemed wrong was looking at Sage Int's obvious to me a copy of Mike Rocks modified M14. I said to the guy at Sage that it looked like the same rifle. His reply was "Only thing different is we have a one pice stock" I first saw the prototype last year from Mike and know he poured his heart and soul into the design. I hate it when others just tag along and copy. I buy from original guy. The one who thought it up. The one who knows why it works not the knock off guys. Just my opinion.
Hope everyone got home,fast and safe.
Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 16:37:32 (ZULU)
Dinger <ding556@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 17:41:31 (ZULU)
I regret to hear that someone f$%&## as)%@@@ copied Mike Rocks M14. I was at his shop a few months ago. Mike looked like a proud father showing off his first born while handing me his redesigned M14...
Like you said. I will stick to guy with the original idea and guts to make a new product.
I think we should start boycotting people like this. Make it perfectly clear that this will not be tolerated. Maybe start a page on this website or another site we can list these type of aggressions.
Mike Rock your reputation/products speak for themselves.
RANT MODE OFF.
bryan
bryan <bherman699@aol.com>
CA, - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 18:46:25 (ZULU)
Dinger <ding556@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 20:28:14 (ZULU)
Also having trouble keeping it from shooting loose, if you have any thoughts on that.
Thanks all.
Alexander Forbes <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 20:40:40 (ZULU)
Guys, forgive my ignorance here but what are we talking about? What type of configuration or modifications to this weapon have been made? Is this a variant of a DMR?
Confused Again, or Still...
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 20:44:08 (ZULU)
If you paid by credit card, file a dispute with the card company - ASAP. As much as I don't like credit cards, this is one real benefit to them. They can - and do - withold payment to the seller until the dispute is resolved. It is the reason I shy away from sellers who refuse to take plastic, or PayPal. I'll pay the 2% surcharge for plastic, since it is relatively cheap insurance.
Hope you get this cleared up to your satisfaction ASAP.
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
- Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 21:21:37 (ZULU)
Pete L. - "kebab shop with rusty roof", that ain't code! got that straight away (maybe its a Brit thing??) like to hear the story though.
Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 21:41:26 (ZULU)
AAA Binos-if'n you paid through the mail, go to the Postal Inspectors at the Post Office. They take a real dim view of Postal Fraud. Paying by credit card can be a REAL advantage. I had a dispute some years back with a firm and after being unhappy with their "customer service" wrote a whine to MasterCard. MasterCard froze their account-didn't let them process any charges or receive funds- producing amazing customer satisfaction in short order.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 00:47:06 (ZULU)
Leupold makes the scope for the SPR..It's a 2.5x8 with side focus, turrets like the 3.5x10LR M3. Newest ones have illum. reticle. Elevation turret etched for 62gr bullet.
Good to see you all at SHOT.
outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Safely ensconced in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 02:24:03 (ZULU)
http://www.brokennewz.com/worldnews/frenchgermanagain.asp
Semper Fi,
Wuzz
Wuzzagrunt <t1_of_2@hotmail.com>
NY, NY, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 02:41:18 (ZULU)
Alexander
Alexander <altona@thegrid.net>
Garnerville, Nevada, - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 03:03:37 (ZULU)
MJ <montereyjack@ix.netcom.com>
monterey by the bay, Ca, USofA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 04:23:53 (ZULU)
IMHO you'll never get a single point scope mount to hold a reliable zero on an M1A. Two point mounts have been made to work, and three point mounts are even better. If yours is aluminum and not steel you've got even more strikes against you. You can't skimp here! Check out the archives for details.
I've had three of these rifles (still have two) and have friends who scope theirs as well. I can tell you from experience that the very expensive and almost impossible to find BPT (Brookfield) mount and its near twin the Smith Enterprises mount will work without a hitch. The ARMS is also excellent, but you may have some scope mounting issues (depending on what you're using) and it may be too low for a good iron sight picture. Also, you won't get a proper cheek weld without some kind of addition to the comb of the standard style stock, with any scope-mount combination.
HTH, ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 05:32:49 (ZULU)
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1045510848273&p=1012571727088
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 06:04:02 (ZULU)
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordian".
and in the news this morning:
Subject: The French have come through!
PARIS-In a stunning reversal of policy, French President Jacques Chirac
announced today that the French government will be supporting the 'War on
Terror' after all.
Five hundred soldiers from the elite Battalion du Specialistes
d'Abandonnement (Surrender Specialists) of France's vaunted Armees de la
Terre are preparing for movement to Iraq, where they will advise the Iraqi
Republican Guards on the protocol of their upcoming surrender to American
Armed Forces.
"It is important to be overbearingly haughty and insufferable when
surrendering," said Colonel Philippe Marie-Jeane Yves-Montand Gauloise du
Petite Pommes, commanding officer of the elite Surrender Specialists, who
has personally surrendered in countless battles dating back to Dien Bien Phu
in 1954. "We French are world masters at surrendering, n'est c'est pas? Not
like you arrogant Americans, who never surrender. Ha! I spit on your
American victories!"
President Chirac also announced that his government will be sending 3,000
advisors from the elite Force du Collaborateurs Francaise to assist the
Iraqis in avidly collaborating with the Americans, while pretending to be
part of a non-existent resistance movement.
OK. Joe S, don't wory about the anti US crap, its all the out of work dreadlocked long haired druggie commies that are protesting any way.
This Iraq thing is about sorting out the short sighted mistakes made by former governments, Brit, US, Froggy and German and a bunch of others, this needs done before its to late and the damn frogs and jerries are to pussy to get on and do it.
Bisley T, oh no, my code is broken, you don't work at Bletchley park do ya??
On a legal course today, works council stuff, makes a change i guess. Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 07:50:55 (ZULU)
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordian".
and in the news this morning:
Subject: The French have come through!
PARIS-In a stunning reversal of policy, French President Jacques Chirac
announced today that the French government will be supporting the 'War on
Terror' after all.
Five hundred soldiers from the elite Battalion du Specialistes
d'Abandonnement (Surrender Specialists) of France's vaunted Armees de la
Terre are preparing for movement to Iraq, where they will advise the Iraqi
Republican Guards on the protocol of their upcoming surrender to American
Armed Forces.
"It is important to be overbearingly haughty and insufferable when
surrendering," said Colonel Philippe Marie-Jeane Yves-Montand Gauloise du
Petite Pommes, commanding officer of the elite Surrender Specialists, who
has personally surrendered in countless battles dating back to Dien Bien Phu
in 1954. "We French are world masters at surrendering, n'est c'est pas? Not
like you arrogant Americans, who never surrender. Ha! I spit on your
American victories!"
President Chirac also announced that his government will be sending 3,000
advisors from the elite Force du Collaborateurs Francaise to assist the
Iraqis in avidly collaborating with the Americans, while pretending to be
part of a non-existent resistance movement.
OK. Joe S, don't wory about the anti US crap, its all the out of work dreadlocked long haired druggie commies that are protesting any way.
This Iraq thing is about sorting out the short sighted mistakes made by former governments, Brit, US, Froggy and German and a bunch of others, this needs done before its to late and the damn frogs and jerries are to pussy to get on and do it.
Bisley T, oh no, my code is broken, you don't work at Bletchley park do ya??
On a legal course today, works council stuff, makes a change i guess. Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 07:51:17 (ZULU)
Even with the double tap your post was funny as hell! This whole thing reminds me of my grandfather who was wounded at Omaha beach. He was a very stoic man, and never really complained. He did not care for the French much.... He did end up sharing many interesting stories with me before he passed away at the age of 86.
(unrelated tangent, but sort of French related..)
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 08:10:17 (ZULU)
On another note, I see France is making a habit of standing by despotic leaders. Mugabe had a warm welcome in Paris today.
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 13:00:05 (ZULU)
The complete quote (as I heard it): "Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you leave behind is a lot of useless, noisy baggage."
-Jed Babbin, former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense
Semper Fi,
Wuzz
Wuzzagrunt <t1_of_2@hotmail.com>
NY, NY, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 16:50:34 (ZULU)
sorry about the double tap, damn work puter.
Deaf Jon, now that was dumb, i remember finding out exactly how loud a boss system is when shooting at a crow out of a toyota pick up, damn !! didn't have the muzzle far enough out the window..
right I'm getting nagged about goint to the pub, so here goes Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 17:11:26 (ZULU)
1. Certain countries dont want us to invade Iraq
2. Certain countries dont want us to find any banned weapons in Iraq
3. Certain countries are always pissed because we sell arms to more Nato countries than they do. They have advanced technologies but not as advanced as ours.
4. Certain countries sell weapons all over the world to anyone they can.
5.Countries that can buy the best arms do.
6. Iraq has new technologies that came from countries that have advanced technologies.
7. Iraq can not buy legitimate technologies from countries that follow the rules.
8. Certain countries dont sell much military hardware if they follow the rules.
9. Certain countries dont want us to know whats in Iraq.
10. If we invaded Iraq we would know who has been selling them technology against the rules.
Now in ost investigations I would look to:
1. Who gains from selling to Iraq, because they are seconds string in arms industry?
2. Who gets a smack if the world finds out they are selling to Iraq, against the rules?
3. Who has nothing to gain if we invade Iraq?
4. Who has everything to lose if we invade Iraq?
5. Who is attempting to block our invading Iraq?
Well the answer to that will give you the Who What Why and Where?
Peter you cracked me up.
Undude/Mike
MikeMIller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 17:31:37 (ZULU)
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 17:43:42 (ZULU)
Alan, do you know if the Smith Enterprises scope mount has any trouble fitting non-US receivers? I seemed to have lucked out with one of the rare good FedOrd receivers (though to be fair, it has all USGI parts), and I really hope I don't have to swap out my rifle to get a scope mount to fit.
To anyone: how did the original one-point mounts work?
Deaf Jon: Count yourself lucky. I watched someone blow out his truck's windshield trying that stunt. Pricey sort of education for him. Pretty funny for the rest of us, though.
Treehugger
Treehugger (A.Forbes) <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 19:04:52 (ZULU)
One of the machinists has a passion for Mugabe, right between the crosshairs. Rhodesian bhoy he is.. F'n France...Pete, lead me away from the Unique stand when we're at IWA, I may end up in gaol...
Is there a deborah@aol.com here? didn't know the c&%t so I deleted their message instead of reading it. Can't be too careful these days..
'lito, where are ya..I gotsa question about chronys for ya if ya got a minute. Youse been diggin' out as well?
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 19:39:14 (ZULU)
JR: Regarding the Sunnis and Shi'ai (sorry, it involves letters we just don't have in our alphabet, and this program doesn't let me type in Arabic). Iraq invaded Iran on your basic, everyday powerplay; it was no more of a religious crusade than the USSR taking Czechoslovakia was a crusade for the liberation of the workers. The US encouraged Iraq, mostly bcause we were pissed at the Iranians for throwing us --and our oil interests-- out. Iran, rather understandably, fought back, fighting Iraq to a standstill in a truly ghastly campaign with atrocities committed on both sides. Since the ceasfire, Iran and Iraq have been at odds because Saddam has been busy slaughtering the Shi'ai minority in the south (most Iranians are Shi'ai, Saddam is a Sunni). *This* is the only part that's all about religion. Last I checked, however, Iran isn't out to convert by the sword. That's just not part of Islam's game. They might not like you --and may even kill you-- if you're not Muslim, but it isn't "convert or die". They know that that kind of faith is about as reliable as information gained under torture. And no, we're not in Saudi because it's the center of Islam, we're in Saudi because it has oil, because it has a ruling family in a very precarious position of power and is therefore tractible, and because it is central to the region. However, Saudi is also the powerbase for the ultra-conservative Wahhabi sect of Sunni Islam. To take Iraq would give us our own oil fields, a base of operations central to the region, and a tractible ally, without the baggage of Islamist extremism.
Remember also that the IRANIANS ARE NOT ARABS. Iranians are PERSIANS, and culturally very, very different. To lump them all in together is to say "Boar? Antelope? Hell, four legs and fur, I don't see why we can't stalk them the same way." Know what --or who-- you're stalking. I'm not saying they're any nicer, but Iranians have entirely different goals in that region than Iraqis. (Sorry, but my family has worked in Iran since the '30s. I haven't yet been there, but I grew up with first-hand tales around the dinner table.)
Undude/Mike: Please remember when using your investigative brain to consider the possibility that someone may want to go into a country to remove evidence, or to plant it, as well as to find it. Yes, the French will sell their grannies for a dime --if they can't find a higher bidder. Hell, they sold Israel its nuclear program, I won't bet that they haven't sold anything to Saddam. However, it is well known that the US sold Saddam most of his biological and chemical weapons, advised him how to use them, and stood by while he used them on his own people and, in the war against Iran, in our interests. There's a good chance we're going in there to cover our own asses.
Gotta do something about the situation, but it's bad all around. No good answers, either militarily or politically.
Sorry 'bout the counter-rant, but there were some issues sneaking up in the blind spots. Bad information and ignorance breed predictably short-sighted strategies. It would suck for any of us to get so carried away we didn't think before we pulled the trigger.
Treehugger
Treehugger (A.Forbes) <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 21:00:01 (ZULU)
Rod
Rod Hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 22:04:07 (ZULU)
"19 German, 10 British, four Swiss and two French concerns, as well as three companies from the Netherlands, Austria and the United States that supplied materials allegedly used in the Iraqi chemical weapons program through the 1980s."
“The list in Iraq's 1998/current chemical weapons declaration contains 31 "major suppliers", 14 from Germany. The 1996/current nuclear suppliers list has 62 company names on it, 33 from Germany. As Iraq claims that since 1991 it has not engaged in WMD production, the lists name no post-Gulf War suppliers.”
“The newspaper - believed to be the first to have access to the top-secret dossier - has written that the Iraqi declaration contains the names of 80 German firms, research laboratories and people, who are said to have helped Iraq develop its weapons program.”
These are just excerpts from articles I will be glad to provide to you if you like. MAYBE Germany and France DON'T want us to go in BECAUSE of what we will find!
drmarc
drmarc <drmarc@se-tel.com>
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 22:35:46 (ZULU)
I still can't respond to your emails about the SC rifle! Your server is rejecting my mail.
Am I the only one having a problem?
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 22:50:37 (ZULU)
The Smith mount, besides fitting the Springfield and the Smitn Ent. receivers will also fit the Chinese M-14S receivers made by Polytech and Norinco. I know this for a fact, been there - done that!
I see no reason why it won't fit yours. Give Smith a phone call to be sure. Following their instructions explicitly is the key to make their mounts work. My advice - mock it up the first time without snugging anything down. This will give you a feel for how it should work.
As far as the single-point mounts, they never worked very well. The ones that I'm familiar with used a large knurled thumbscrew that fit the threaded hole on the left side of the receiver (originally intended for a grenade launcher sight) and to raised ribs that keyed into female slots or grooves that were machined into the side of the receiver at the mounting hole, sort of an upside-down 'T'.
They kept loosening up in the field, and the shooters kept buggering up the knurled screw with pliers in an effort to keep it tight. Eventually, they filed or milled flats into two sides of the head of the thumbscrew to facilitate using a wrench to snug the thing up. They even resorted to welding the mount in place on the receiver in an attempt to keep it secured.
Now, with some decent mounts available, things are not nearly as bad as they used to be, but they still require caution when installing and periodic check-ups and maintenence in the field. One of the many reasons that the operators dig the SR-25 platform!
HTH, ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 23:16:28 (ZULU)
I remember watching the Rugby World Championship a few years ago. The logo on the French team uniforms was a chicken. I guess that explains it all.
Sharpshooters Supply;
Look at varminthunters.com and go to the link.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 23:48:29 (ZULU)
Howdy! I just got caught up on the archives, and incidently, just got home. I have two more CONUS TDYs yet, and then the OCONUS gig. My replacement is inbound (yiiihaaaa).
Bolt,
I'll be in the Bragg area last week of March--you near there? If we can swing it, I'd be honored to buy you a cold one!
Neil Boortz posted that French Army Mag parody today--it is funny as hell.
For those of you wanting to get on with it in Iraq--look at it this way--I need the time to get there! Heheh. The trick is, once we go, securing the oil fields before they go boom while simultaneously decapitating any formation that poses a threat to the civies in-country. If we pull A and B off; we'll be awwwwright!
It's good to be home--if only for a few weeks...
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 00:49:27 (ZULU)
drmarc: Thanks for the info, and well presented. I'd love to see the complete version, but it looks as though my hypothesis stands refuted, as the scientists say. 'Course I'm always skeptical of "top-secret dossiers" conveniently leaked to the press, but that's the conspiracy theorist in me. Please buzz the reports my way, if you get the chance.
JR: Easy on! I wasn't trying to get nasty or say you don't know what you're talking about. I certainly wouldn't assume you were a "pud" with no experience. Yes, to religion is mixed up in everything in that part of the world, no question. And no, the Sunnis don't think too highly of the Shi'ai, and vice-versa. (Fascinating story behind that conflict, too, if you ever want to look it up.) As for Iran's expansionism, it isn't a patch on either Iraq's or Israel's, and if you can find me a nation in that part of the world that *isn't* expansionist, looking at the situation over the last fifty years, I'll buy you a box of your favorite ammo.
Your assessment of Iraq is also dead-on, by my research. Saddam is bad news, but he's bad news in a political power-hungry sort of way, not in a religious fervor. This is one reason why the whole "allied with AlQaeda" story just doesn't fly; Saddam doesn't like bin Laden because he doesn't like the threat the religious extremists pose his (relatively) secular tyranny. As for my talking about two different conflicts, you're right, and I apologise for confusing the issue. Our switching sides has completely undermined our credibiity in that region, but that wasn't the point I was then trying to make. Thanks for the catch.
That aside, do I think Iran is the largest possible threat on the screen over there? Not a chance. Without going into the whole Israeli/Palestinian conflict, I'd say the title of biggest threat goes to Saudi. They have an unstable government dependant equally on foreign (infidel) money and the whim of the increasingly extremist Wahhabi sect. Torn between two these two diametrically opposite paradigms, we are looking at a very high probability of regime collapse and rapidly spreading regional instability. The Wahhabis are far less tolerant than any sect of the Shi'ai --take note that all of the 9/11 hijackers were Wahhabis, many from Saudi, while none were Shi'ai or from Iran-- and they are *far* better funded than any group allied in any way to the Sh
