- Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 07:51:20 (ZULU)
Earlier this week I got this from mowryjo@cox.net - "ur a hillbilly prick u gun crazy dick"
After several unpleasant emails passed between us, I figured out this guy had no idea what was going on.
I think we're in for another round of asshole emails from some bored asswipe who's farming our addresses again.
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 00:19:27 (ZULU)
"Handy as a hatchett in a car" - got to love them Cajun-isms.
PJC,
I think that the big money sponsors and the "factory teams" of highly paid hired guns is a major cause of the ruination of IDPA, IPSC and the rest of those alphabet soup shooting sports. We're seeing some of it at tactical matches now. I've seen 35 lb. rifles that look like a buck saw, have you? There's got to be an answer.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 00:33:02 (ZULU)
Light rifles: We are talking about them, but no one defined the operational perameters, which, of course, will define the rifle.
I had a custom .308 scout rifle built to Coopers "Sweetheart" pattern. Light, fast, and shot a consistent sub 3/4 MOA with 168's. Probably the perfect light rifle. Especially in LE scenarios. Very much what you needed last night, Brian.
Probably something like the Rem 700 LTR would fit the bill. Only when fitted with a variable scope. Shoot, 35 yards, an Aimpointed Benelli and slugs woulda done it!
Great posts. Would have to say that most LE shootings probably could be handled with a good 30/30. The pointoint accuracy is more of a pipe dream than a real need. Brian, you want to comment on that whilest I'm getting in defilade...;-)
Back to bed...up for duty in a few...
Semper Fi,
Wes-ski
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 00:39:20 (ZULU)
It looks alot like one of those new scout rifles.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 01:52:34 (ZULU)
Mike Dominick <als2358@blackfoot.net>
Missoula, Montana, USA - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 02:50:30 (ZULU)
Just for kicks I put my Kelty pack (5500 cu in) together with what I would need for three days in the woods. With a 20+ sleeping bag, spotter, tripod, change of cloths, tipi( Kirafu 4 man), stove, 1st aid kit, GPS, nextel( better than a radio), All band radio w/ Weather channels, food, cooking utensils, h20 filter, game handling equipment, poncho, compass, Stiener bino's, TP, personal stuff, chem lights, flash lights, batteries, scent suppressent, Saw, hatchet, wet stone, exra ammo, the usual parachord and misc supplies. Total weight is 39/40 lbs. Little stuff I carry in my coat and vest and pants pockets. Items like calls, ammo, small bino's I carry in my vest, which has a water bladdr in it. Weight of BRowning Quad parka, bibs, vest with goodies is 14 lbs. Winchester .270 FW with Zeis scope is 9.75 pounds with TIS sling. Glock in holster is 3 pounds. Total is 69 pounds plus the water in the camelback. IT hads been a few years since I trapped around Colorado Hunting elk, but for a guy in his mid 30's then that's the size and condition of an NFL linbacker, it was no problem to haul around up to 7000 ft or so. After that it started to get heavy. When you hunt away from support the weight is a big deal, but a majority of todays hunters are still hunters, they take trucks and 4 wheelers to within a few hundred yards of their stand and stay put. My .270 shoots cbs as predictable as any heavy rifle, but after three or four rounds look out, it does wander. I have carried my AR-10T around for a few days tracking a neighbors wounded Buck, and at 15 lbs it was fine.
I used to enjoy the solitude of hunting Elk alone in the mountains, but with my knee and back, guided hunts with horses and/or 4 wheelers is the only way I will still be able to go after them. My wife has told me absolutely no solo hunting any more. At least here in Michigan, I can drive to within a few hundred yards of my stand, and leave most everything in the Truck until I need it. Going back to a Warm cabin with hot water and a bed is a good thing. In my opinion, the heavy stuff is out for hunting/ sniping. Anything over 15 lbs with ammo and sling is too heavy, 12 pounds is better yet, and 9.75 is perfection. Perhaps that's the reason the M70 Featherweight is regarded as the perfect huning rifle.
Anyhow, hope to get back to work next week. You can see from my long post how boored I am sitting home.
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 03:13:30 (ZULU)
I really like my TBA M40A1, my SSG PII, and my 700VS rifles, but when I am going hunting, rather than shooting on a range I tend to take something lighter if I know I'm going to carry it far.
My stainless Model Seven .223 is near the top of the list and I'm looking at a a .308 one as well, that or a Sako 75 Finnlight.
The .223 Model Seven shoots .6" at 100 meters (mixed measurements I know) for three shoot groups, as good as my 700VS.
Brian,
The NZ Police use standard wood/blue Model Sevens in .223 as the general issue rifle. They are light and handy. The Armed Offenders Squad use some with 3x9 Weaver or Leupold scopes and harris bipods and train out to 200 meters.
The rest of use get iron sighted ones or Glock 17s on the very few occasions we carry firearms (we are normally unarmed except for Airports, embassies and the duty detectives).
While I have carried my heavy rifles into the hills, I am not ashamed to say I prefer something lightweight.
Sniff
Sniff <akh805@actrix.co.nz>
Home of the Americas cup, Auckland, New Zealand - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 03:15:33 (ZULU)
WES: No argument here bud. I mean Cajun math sez a rifle that shoots a solid minute at 100 ought to do somewhere around half dat at 50, no?
A Marlin Guide gun would sure thump a BG wouldn't it?
I just LIKE those one hole bolt guns. I mean, my kids slingshot shoots MOA and I guess ole Col. Whelen really was right.
The LTR handles great and it and the Model 7 both fit my little kid sized frame. Also, it would be easier to 'smith a set of open sights on the heavier bbl. of the LTR. But, the rifle is heavier overall and the 7 is just so damn quick to point.
Lito mentioned a Mountain Rifle. They are nice. Dad has one in .270 that shoots just about 1/4 min. consistently for the first three and then the barrel heats up and pitches the fourth way out of the group. Loves Factory Federal Premium w/ 150gr. Nosler Partitions. 22" bbl though. Little brother neck shoots everything with it.
They even got the Titanium thing going on now. More corrosion resistant even than SS. (Some SS ain't really stainless). Seawater is corrosive as hell and the ultimate test of gear.
I thought of scrounging a SS 700 action and letting George barrel it with a "little heavier than a Model 7 bbl but lighter than an LTR" fluted SS Rock bbl. Model 7 weight - Accuracy by Rock/GA Precision.
I know our unlimited class silhouette pistols / 7-30 Waters, 7 IHMSA, 7TCU, .308, 7-08 thumped the rams at 200 meters and we killed pronghorn out to 520 yards w/ 'em. They had 14" barrels - tops.
AWC also made up a batch of 16 in. bolt .308 rifles once for the SEALs to HALO with back in the early 90s. Looked kinda funny.
I'm thinking 18"-20" max. "CQB Sniper" - almost an oxymoron huh?
I may coon finger the 7/LTR/Mnt. simultaneously (dat means at de same time for all de Cajun people in de listnin' audience) at the SHOT Show and make a decision.
Dunno. Got the itch though ... stay tuned. Any advice welcome.
Again, just thinking aloud fellas.
au revoir, mon ami
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 03:21:33 (ZULU)
Re: the weight/technology thread.
1. A well trained soldier with minimal technology will probably defeat a shitty trained soldier with state if the art technology. Its the man behind the weaponry more than the weaponry itself.
2. A military with state of the art technology is worthless unless it can coordinate the use of this technology into the big scheme of things.
I think the above Goochisms help 'splain the Russia v Afghan thing. It wasnt our technology that defeated the bad boys in Afghan (if we can consider them defeated) it was the little 18 series MF'ers hauling ass around on horseback that did it. Sure the lasers, and widgets helped but without the Americans operating said widgets we wouldnt be where we are at now.
Okay, I'm back to sleep.
out here
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 07:07:16 (ZULU)
Marlin guide gun ( 450 45/70 444) Ashley scout mount, Wild West Guns lazer light mount( weaver type ring compatible), Sure Fire in a weaver ring. Eagle stock pack, Aimpoint in Warne QD maxima rings and a 1.5-6x42 S&B PM with mil dot reticle.(also Warne QD maxima rings)(ive actualy got a 2.5-10x56 on it but that will change to the 1.5-6x42 as soon as ive some spare cash). you can swap from scope to aimpoint in 5 seconds with no loss of accuracy/change of impact point. CQB rifle, i.e. Close Quarter Boar.. you could replace the Boar with Bad Guy.. got one, like it, love it. fast to use, shoots one hole groups at 100m, drops pigs like lightening on most occasions. With the S&B it weighs about 8.5 - 9lbs, and you even put a bipod on it.All that i need to do is have the whole thing coated in Green T and convince Hogue to produce a stock for it, then convert it from straight pistol grip to a cirved one.
I would tend to lean towards the scope for most applications, I've found that the aimpoint is very fast and accurate to use out to about 100m, after that i prefer the scope, and to be honest, with the scope on the lower x's you can do everything with it that the aimpoint will do, the red dot is however very fast to use, but then the flash dot reticle from S&B would be as fast i expect.
If it wasn't for the no pointed bullets in a mag tube the 30-30 might be an idea with more bullet options. I guess a Browning BLR in 308 would be a nice option? Or Winchester lever gun in 307 win, or a Savage 99 in 308 or 243, it would be nice to build a Police Tactical rifle on each one and do a comparison.
And for the light sniper rifle bolt gun. Remington 700, long action, SSG bolt knob, leapold weaver 2 peace bases, HS precision thumbhole sporter stock(and what a pretty Brit Cammo scheme they did me too) Harris swivel bipod(the longer one) sling, eagle stock pack, S&B PMII in Badger rings, ancle cosine indicater in a cut down Accuracy Int mount full mag, spare 10 rds inside stock pack. Heym 24" fluted sporter barrel. ready to go. weighes in at, what was it now, 12.5lbs? i weighed it a few months ago, and was surprised it was so heavey. now that is a perfect light sniper rifle. its a 30-06, using Hornady light magnum i'm getting the same trajectory as Jon B is with his 300 win mag (who said 30-06 was obselete ?). Same set up in 308 with a 20"barrel would be lighter. Perhaps Marty can make us all a picatinny base that is about 15"long, that should enable scout type mounting of an aiming device.
Ive got a 308 with a 20" bull barrel in an AICS, the heavey bitch is a joy to use on a range, but if i had to carry it far, i'd be taking the 06 every time.That is why the sod spends most of its time in the safe.
Now we are talking guys, looks like i've been doing something right all along (despite what the wife says).
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 07:39:56 (ZULU)
I catch a fox in the head lights as i turned into the woods, "Hmmm i wonder if i'll see foxy later?". Set of on my planned stalk heading east along the southern most track, passing where the fox had been and can smell her, and see where she's been digging under the snow and leaves trying to catch a vole or mouse. Light snow is gently falling, the forest floor is covered with a light coating, looks like iceing sugar. The darkness has a pink tinge, the lights from the runway are casting golden shafts of light between the darker shadows of the trees. The fresh snow is soft and deadens the sound of the leaves crushing under foot, a few steps then check with the bino's, check the dog. a few more steps, and then a few more. A plane takes of, using the roar of the engines to mask the sound, i cover some ground quickly. I stop and listen, the noise of the plane fades, i wonder where it is heading, some where sunny I'll bet, rather them than me, snow covered forests are beautifull. A few more steps, the dogs ears prick up and she steps forward, straining at the lead, what has she picked up, I check with the bino's, wait and listen. A catch a faint patter patter, something stepping lightly through the trees, coming closer to my right, the dog strains againt the lead again, pointing to where the deer is. I crouch to be able to see under the trees catching sight of movement, legs moveing, the deer is browsing through the woods following a well used game trail, gradualy it comes into full view, a young buck, with part developed antlers covered in velvet, its about 20 yards away and is obliviouse to our presence, continueing to browse along its trail, finaly disapearing in the blackness of a conifer thicket.
The dog and i continue our stalk, turning north along a game trail and then heading back west along a track, turning around a small bend in the track i see a fox sat on a log, clearly defined by the airport lights behing it, right next to the airport fence, it would be an easy shot, but impossible, no back stop. I watch the fox for ten minutes, it just sits there, I move into the shadows and begin to mimmick a dying rabbit, The fox appears to have been doseing, stiffening up to my first call, it hops of the log and heads in our direction, circling around to the north, always in view between the trees and always without a back stop, finaly the fox crosses where my scent is drifting and shoots off like a rocket.
I continue to stalk west, checking the small clearing where i shot the big boar during the summer, from the tracks in the snow i can see a few deer, a fox and a badger have crossed the clearing recently, no doubt the fox i just saw. About 2 hours into the stalk now and haven't seen any sign of pigs at all. The dogs ears prick up again, and she is straining at the lead, but the brush is so thick i can't see anything and whatever she is pointing is to distant for a human to hear. She relaxes again, whatever it was has passed. We continue to stalk west, zig-zagging back and forth through the forest on tracks and game trails. At the junction of 4 tracks i head down the one that passes to the rear of my current bait site. The dog wants to go the opposite direction, but the sky has cleared and its begining to freeze, soon it will be noisy snow crunching under foot.About 300m down the track i stop to listen, checking back the way we came, i see a dark shape at the edge of the track, must be about 450m, illuminated by the airport lights, through the bino's i can see its a big pig.No wonder the dog wanted to go the other way. Its now heading down the snow covered track, directly towards us, I get in a prone possition, rifle resting over the dog, decideing to follow the pig in the scope i can make out smaller pigs following, its obviously a sow with young.Right now i get itchy arse syndrome, i'm wrapped up like a sausage in my winter stalking kit, to scratch my but i've got to dig through several layers, its driving me crazy, i just HAVE to scratch the itch, ahhh, bliss, itch scratched, Why does ones butt always itch at the most unapropriate times. The pigs close to about 300m, plainly to see in the centre of the track, to far for the Marlin, damn. If i stand up, she will see me for sure, me and the dog begin to crawl back up the track, gaining about 50 yards, the pigs are milling about rooting the track up between the wheel ruts, taking rest over a fallen tree branch, trying to get a clear shot, 250m, I haven't shot the Marlin at that range and can only estimate the trajectory, should i, shouldn't i? my indecision took to long, the pigs disapeared into the brush, pointless trying to stalk after them, wind is the wrong way and the snow is about frozen, to noisy. We head towards the car, its 00.30 and i'm at work at 07.00. Coming to another 4 track junction and stopping to listen, i hear numerouse pitter patter of deer feet, one after another they cross the track to my right and circle around crossing the track to my rear, a doe with 2 kids, one a buck the other a doe, seemingly unpreterbed by my scent on the track, the dog has been straining at the lead and has pointed them the whole way around, they wander off through the trees, the 2 kids in youthfull leaps and bounds. Time to call it a night, heading back to the car, rounding a bend tye car comes into view. A dirty great dog fox is sat a yard infront of the car, i can't believe my eyes, i can't shoot him either, i don't want a hole in the sump or the radiator, Time for a little fun, I fumble in my pocket for the car key. Pressing the remote butten for the central locking, the lights flash on and the door locks open, the fox nearly jumps out of its skin, scrambling to get away, its legs going hell for leather, its like a scene from a cartoon, laughing i walk to the car and drive home. On the way back i see a very nice buck at the road side, his well developed antlers covered in silvery velvet. No pig, but a realy memorable stalk. Its not the kill, its the stalk. Richer from my experinces tonight, i go contentedly to bed, the hunting season now closed.
Pete L
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 09:12:53 (ZULU)
Oh yeah the Remmy head-space thing. Some of you guys may be able to comment. I had a Chief Ranger from another district over the other week and he caught sight of my Remmy in the corner of the room. He went over and said "Remington,eh! Whats the headspace like" . I explained it should be spot on as it was a custom rifle. He then said he had a Ranger who had a 700 in 243 that had terrible headspace problems and was told that the problem came from Remmy bolts being too soft, causing them to compress during use, eventually f$%^ing up the headspace. Now I have never heard of this problem with Remmy bolts, but what about you guys? Pete says there is no prob with the bolt, just the way Remmy put the barrel on; I tend to agree after the dramatic improvement in accuracy I had with the original factory rifle after changing from factory loads to neck sized homeloads.
Oh and by the way Pete, how are the banjo lessons coming on? And I've been wondering why you like your pigs so much - "Sqeal like a pig, boy; WHHEEEE!" Now I think someone has come up with the answer. Sorry to any bonafida Hillbillys, no offence intended ;-)
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 10:48:43 (ZULU)
S&B have:
+
excellent optics.
well organised modification-repair and upgrade procedures.
A military-tactical line of optics with a few options.
_
interaction with customers who desire more than S&B offer however leaves a lot to be desired, the inovations manager/team is/are an/a blinkered, tunnel visioned, narrow minded ass.Ive been telling them per phone and email for ages and ages to produce a 3-12 and a 4-16x42 PMII(priced at $1200) with a side paralax and a combined paralax reticle adjustment (aka NXS) option. They told me, we do not believe there is a market for such a product. Yes because they believe(d) "zat wvho covld possibly vant more zan zee supervior German(see the arm twitch) produvct zat vee already pvroduce( every vone vants a Mercedes Benz dovn't zey, zo every vone who has anzy zense vill vant a S&B, und obviously 50mm Obj lenses are superior auch, ein volk, ein reich.." blah blah. so i carry on telling them and at some point they just begin to ignore me, ok i can be a pain in the ass, but a " Thank You Mr Lincoln, we have noted your ideas and suggestions, our market research and inovations team are currently looking into it" would have been nice. but no.( Ve do novt believe zer ist ein Market vor zo ein produkt !) then total blank, no return of emails, despite requests for technical info on other things but the PMII.
I can imagine the inovations guys thinking "I kannot hav ein insel affe limey having better ideas zan me, I better zink ov somezing"and low and behold, whilst looking at his WW11 italian submarines book, he comes up with a design for a new scope, it even has 2 escape hatches and an extra conning tower.
But through the grape vine, not to mention enigma machines, code breaking, Bletchley Park and a few other things, whispers have reached my ear about a new PMII, that wouldn't be a 3-12 and a 4-16 x42 with a side paralax and an option of combining the paralax control with the ret illumination would it?
"Abzolutely Novt, ve do novt believe zat zer ist ein market vor so ein produvkt" yeah yeah. No, thanks for the idea Mr Lincoln. Well done Mr Lincoln, not that Im after any credit, i just do not like bieng blatently ignored.I guess the $1200 price tag is out the window due to this damn Euro.
Zeiss on the other hand,(same goes for Swarovski, and Kahles for that matter) have excellent optics, well organised repair, upgrade and mofification procdures, on the down side thier tactical line is some what lacking, however they are always glad to recieve suggestions "Thank You Mr Lincoln, we have noted your ideas and suggestions, our market research and inovations team are currently looking into it, we will let you know the out come of our research" and when they put it into production I will buy 2 of that particular model and glady part with the cash.
Got off track there a bit, so Jon, we've established the fact that you are a Taffy sheep shagger and I'm a Hill Billy Pig shagger, to that i can only say "Ive never been to bed with an ugly woman, i have however, woken up with quite a few"!!!
Most 700 's come out the factory with head space that seems to me to be way excessive, no doubt within tollerance spec's but on the larger CHS side of the specs, but then the ammo manufactureres must be producing ammo that comes out on the small end of the tollerance specs. so what happens is the factory round is pushed into the chamber, it is pushed fully home not by the boltface but by the ejector plunger, so when you pull the trigger, sear releases cocking piece, the firing pin travels forward striking the primer. ignition occurs, low and behold, the case comes thrusting( good word that, thrusting) back wards onto the bolt face, the brass stretches/expands more than it realy should need to inorder to achieve rearward obturation, there is a split second glitch in the forward movement of the bullet, having jumped from the case into the comencement of rifleing and it slams home and is possible dammaged or certainly stands a chance of off axis entry into the bore, all bieng detrimental to accuracy. Then you take your once fired cases,which now matches the size of the chamber, reload em and seat the bullets either just off or just touching the lands, of course you now see a dramatic improvement in accuracy, the case is now held firmly on the bolt face whilst bieng fired.
I've seen at least 2 Rem 700's that suffered from mis fires because the firing pin was obviously on the short side of tollerances and the CHS on the long side, the case, forced away from the bolt face by the ejector had the primer just about out of reach of the firing pin, the primer had a strike, but not enough to ingnite.
What do you do to cure the problem, short of getting a custom barrel fitted. if you are a hand loader, shoot all your factory ammo into the berm and reload the once fired cases.
Alternatively, remove the barrel, turn the barrel shoulder back enough to allow you to screw the barrel into the action just that bit more, taking up that excess CHS., whilst you have the barrel of, you might as well have the action trued, but if you are on a budget, setting the barrel further in and lapping the lugs will go a long way to improve consistency and accuracy on a Rem 700 with a factory barrel, Is this an ideal fix, no. the factory barrel is still a bitch , what was it Lito ?$18 piece of shit, it will still be a bitch to clean and your rifle will not shoot as good as one that has been accurised by a competent smith and has a custom barrel properly fitted. But if you do not have access to reasonably priced barrels ( and they are expensive here if you can't get em at trade price), and can't be bothered with all the headaches of finding a competent smith (you guys in the US have it good, we do not have the choice of Rem 700 knowledgeable smiths here in Europe, the one that do know what they are doing charge an arm and a leg for the simpleist of operations/repairs and for barrels. a trip to the proof house follows any new barrel, then getting it blued or coated or what ever, etc etc.
If you don't require or can't afford a custom gun with superb accuracy, but desire a factory rifle that is better than it came out the factory, this is the way to go with Rem 700's.Trigger job and bedding and you will notice the difference. you can then enjoy the rifle whilst saveing your pennies for the custom work over.Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 12:21:08 (ZULU)
You have mail. N/A.
SWFA has a limited run of Swarovski 10x42 mildot scopes for $799.95. No paralax adjustment or Gen2 reticle. FWIW
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 12:30:10 (ZULU)
Just a thought.
Pat (the other one)
Pat <patncindy@iglide.net>
ID, - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 13:23:43 (ZULU)
It looks like we might have lost a shuttle.
Steve <stevesix@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 14:37:41 (ZULU)
Misty eyed Bolt, sad and out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 14:41:53 (ZULU)
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 14:43:25 (ZULU)
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 15:01:42 (ZULU)
It was probably from TPS (thermal protection system) damage received on launch. Looks like a wing burnt off over Texas and then the shuttle itself burnt up. Say a prayer for the seven and then for all of us.
JE
Jerry Lee Edwards (pandora) <grimm@atlantic.net>
Chuluota, Florida, USA - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 15:03:41 (ZULU)
I actually heard either the explosion or the sonic boom. It shook my house pretty good. I went outside to look for a mushroom cloud and actually saw the Shuttle vapor trail. The wife slept right through it - go figure.
A very sad day indeed.
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 15:13:14 (ZULU)
For a light rifle, I'll take a Winnie Featherweight in .308 or 6.5x55 and add a Loopy 2.5-8 VariX-3. There's also a Compact model available with a 20 inch barrel.
I have a SS Shilen .30 cal 1/10 twist, #5 light varmint barrel with only a few rounds through it that may have the same threads as a Rem. action. What's an acceptable price for a Rem ADL for a donator action? $250 sound right? Thanks.
Jerry S. <jtmstor@rrv.net>
Red River Valley, MN, USA - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 15:33:17 (ZULU)
ta
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 16:05:44 (ZULU)
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 16:47:24 (ZULU)
Fits the MO.
US/Israeli target, High Profile shock value, National TV, first thing on the Saturday morning news.
You know the fuckers are lovin' it whether or not they actually did it.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 17:44:18 (ZULU)
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 17:53:31 (ZULU)
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 18:02:31 (ZULU)
this shuttle was at 200K+ feet and travelling at 18 mach when it broke up, there is nothing fired from the ground that would have caught up with that, nuthin... Damn, did you see the spiral? jeezus, at 12K mph, damn...How youse guys doin in Texas, heard one report that they heard a sonic boom which may have lasted for a minute... Well, if I remember right, a normal shuttle entering the atmosphere might create a rat-tat staccato type boom boom, but if it broke up, then all the little pieces are creating their own noise, so if there was a minute of this going on, there were a lot of pieces.. Youse guys on the southeast coast keep your heads up, the debris could be falling for a while, it came apart above the jet stream which could drive it another couple hundred miles before it comes down...
I know what it takes to get into NASA, and these people were the cream of the crop if they were to get to fly into space...Pay your respects as you will, if nothing they had balls the size of watermelons to even give it a shot... hat's off to the Columbia crew..
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 19:24:02 (ZULU)
Was on duty this morn, when word of the Shuttle Columbia breaking up, came in. Seven good astronauts gone...We are diminished.
Brain, when I trained with Chuck Taylor his saying was: "Give a first rate man a second rate weapon, and a second rate man a first rate weapon, and better man will soon have the better weapon".
Light rifles...Hmmm, I DO have that Obermeyer .30 cal featherweight barrel in the safe...;-)
Winchester featherweight pattern is one of my all time favorites. It just hangs "right".
Will have to check the Shuttle Roster. One of my Basic School compadres is a Shuttle pilot. Hope he's OK
All for now. I hear the rack calling...
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 19:27:29 (ZULU)
GOD BLESS SEVEN BRAVE PEOPLE WHO DIED DOING THEIR DUTY TODAY
**********************************************************************
Jon, Pete L,
I've never heard of any inherent "soft bolt" problems in the 700. The lugs would have to be made of butter, but if headspace is really on the excessive side the cartridge case slamming back could hammer the lugs causing poor lug contact resulting in potential problems.
I don't really think that it's excessive headspace, even if it's there, that is causing the 700 accuracy problems. It seems to be the super-long throating that they're using. That's why some people are having the crappy barrel set back and the chambers recut. Possibly Remingtons lawyers answer to High Energy ammo and 'hot-rod' handloaders. Long throat=freebore=lower chamber pressures=happy risk managers. I remember when Roy Weatherby was doing the same thing years ago, to shoot his hot Norma loaded ammo, reach ultra-high velocities, and still keep manageable pressures. Accuracy not very good as a result. Like Pete said, it's the long jump before the bullet engages the rifiling. Combine that with a non-concentric load, a poorly balanced bullet, a real thin jacket, and you've got a nightmare. But maybe I'm crazy?
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 19:53:13 (ZULU)
Chief <dwightc11@msn.com>
Norfolk, Va, USA - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 21:29:42 (ZULU)
You have an incoming mail with attachments.
'Lito,
You'll have the same one coming shortly....
How appropriate is the thread on light weight. The new fagmag tipped the scales at 16lbs with no rings, scope or handstop. It'll be a 19lbs rifle,,,, far to heavy. Looks like I'll need to hit the weights....
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
Confusious say, , "FagMags are like Doritos,,, you can't have just one", - Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 22:15:50 (ZULU)
The guy with the "soft bolt" either needs to get the gun professionally checked and/or have the lugs hardness tested. I tend to doubt that is the problem, but anything is possible. If it only happens with handloads, they might be the problem for a whole bunch of reasons.
Remember, holes can be drilled/reamed oversize, never undersize. Things that go in holes-ammo included-can be undersize, never oversize. I have very vivid memories of some FN ammo that was WAY undersize and had me scared to shoot one of my rifles for years, fearing excessive headspace. Primers in fired cases stuck way out there!
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 22:29:44 (ZULU)
I need to get a new powder measure/dispenser. I want something that is very consistant. Also needs to be long lasting.
Right now I have a Lee and it is getting some variation in it. It got knocked over and, while not broken, doesn't work as well now.
I'm going to use mostly Varget and H4895, if that makes any difference.
Steyr pistols;
Anyone have any experience with Steyr Model M pistols in .40 caliber? I'm looking to buy a good .40 cal. but have never had any dealings with the Steyr pistols.
I'm not trying to start pistol country again, so e-mail me if y'all care to.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 01:55:07 (ZULU)
Jody asked about .40 S&W pistols. If your looking for light weight the Glock 22 or 23 are superb. However, if your looking for absolute "pointability" and performance I recommend the Browning Hi-Power in .40. I have one and nothing points like a Browning. Either the HP or the 1911. John Moses had his "feces cohesive".
Chris, My .300 is gonna go 16+, too. Though my M40A1 goes 15.5 and is just about perfect the way it is...
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 02:25:06 (ZULU)
doesn't sound like a carry rifle ;)) The total weight of about 19lbs wouldn't be an issue if I was still shooting F Class,, but Prone I have to hold her up by myself. I don't think it's going to be a big issue, but on the state and regional, there are 5 matches in the weekend. That's when the 14lbs rifles come in handy ;))
I agree the HP's point nicely, but I get bit by the hammer badly. The new 40's may have cured this, but when I think of the HP,, I think of an Inglis with the tangent sights, wooden stock, no blueing and machine marks all over it. Rough,, but there's something about them.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 02:46:08 (ZULU)
To those of you who saw the press conference, did you get the distinct inpression they know exactly what went wrong? I did. The fella to the left sitting down, who I believe is the flight director, really looked like his worst nightmare had just come true. He kept refering to the analysis of the missing foam after the launch, and even went so far as to have the crew look at the tank at seperation the see if thye could located the missing section on the tank so they could get the size of it. Since the tile damaged were out of sight of the flight crew, there is no way to tell for sure how extensive the damage was. If the tiles are back far enough from the leading edge and not more than two or three, the plasma boundy layer of the reentry heat would bypass the gap of the missing tile. This has happened before and with no serious results. If to many of the tile were missing they could be pulled off like domino's exposing the entire underside of the wing to 3,000 deg heat. That would account for the instant sensor failures, and the sudden airframe failure. It is interesting to note that an astronomer observing the shuttle from California through his observatory telescope reported seeing specs of material coming off of Columbia over Arizona and New Mexico. Could these be tiles????
IF this indeed was the case, talk about the stress of living with this very real possibility since the launch. And yeah Know, if what I theorize happen did happen, and they knew about it after launch, They still did the right thing to keep it quite and hope for the best. I for one hope to God if they did know ahead of time it never comes out, because it would serve no good purpose. The crew could not be rescued, no other shuttle was close to flight ready, the Space station was too far out to rendevous, and they had only another 4 days of food and water on board. Back in the early days of the shuttle program, one of the goals was to always have another shuttle ready for launch within 48 hours of the flight orbiter. This way if they did loose alot of tiles, or had another system failure, a rescue could be flown, and a later mission sent up to repair the damaged orbiter and fly it home. This never came to reality due to budget reasons. IT fell by the budget wayside, along with the second batch of 6 shuttles and the Vandenburg launch facility. The early flight also carried tile repair kits, but they have not been on board since before Challenger's crash.
It is truely a testiment to those in NASA that these spacecraft, with 100,000 parts, eash provided by the lowest bidder, have worked as well as they have with so few fatalities in 42 years of manned space flight. Now is the time, to write our politicians about something besides the second ammendment, and support NASA and what the organization does for us all.
Good night
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 03:08:03 (ZULU)
If there was any doubt (and seems like there was) at all of any damage to the airframe after liftoff, what would it have hurt to do a space walk and have a look around? Better to have had the orbiter docked indefinitely @ the space station and let the Russkies fire off one of their Soyuz rockets and deliver the groceries and fix the problem later than to lose the crew AND the orbiter. If this is the case, then NASA made a BAD mistake of choosing to simply be in denial and allowing the orbiter to come home in an unknown condition. I hope I'm wrong about this.
*****************************************************
God bless the Crew of Columbia and all of their families.
*****************************************************
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 04:19:37 (ZULU)
Columbia; I was on the way to the range when I got the news. I'm no good at this stuff. I just spent the day and shooting and thinking about it. But we just go back and do it right next time. Another noble ship and crew went down, we fire the salute and hit the deck running! It's who we are.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 04:41:45 (ZULU)
I got up first thing this morning and turned on the DR before I did the TV. Didn't know about the altitude and speed facts 'til after my post when I turned on CNN.
Tragic deal.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 04:54:58 (ZULU)
You asked about powder measures. There are a few good ones out there and many bad ones. FWIW, I use the Redding #3BR measure. Coincidently, two of my most used powders are H4895 and Varget. It always does great with them. While it might take a few tries to get the mic adjusted properly for your charge (don't they all?) once it's set it'll stay on the money for hundreds of rounds! Build quality and materials are excellent. It'll probably last a lifetime. I got mine at Natchez a few years ago on sale for about $80. Liked it so much I bought another last summer for more $!
HTH, ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 05:17:20 (ZULU)
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 05:32:11 (ZULU)
Let's look at this from another angle. Knowing what they know now...what, if anything, would they/could they have done differently?....Yeah I know it's a 20-20 hindsight question.
I'm very much reminded of the Challenger fiasco. There were several engineers back in 86 that told NASA that launching anywhere below 50F would have unknown consequences especially with the past history of blown O rings in the SRBs and were warned of the very thing that could happen.... did happen.
Another thing. Just how many flights can each orbiter withstand? Think about it. Super stress on takeoff and pushing Mach 18+ on re-entry?
I know I'm in way over my head on this subject but it's bugging the hell out of me.
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 06:02:42 (ZULU)
7 Folks die in the shuttle and all the world stops.
A football player has a problem with his depression and it's big news.
All of the above are terrible but when 4 Soldiers die in a Blackhawk in Afghanistan it barely makes the evening news and is quickly forgotten.
I guess some of us are disposable....Thats why the folks in the military get paid the big bucks....
The worlds priority's constantly amaze me.
In a grumpy old man mood.
Out here.
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 06:44:03 (ZULU)
it's the way it has been, the way it always will be. The same day "Dale" died, an army crew dies in an H-60 crash, no-one cared, no memorials or funds for their families or commemoritive bumper stickers, forgotten by dinner time.
And what "big bucks" are you talking about? It really pains me to see congress vote them selves a healthy raise every year, professional athletes complain about their $1.5 million salries, and fat, arrogant movie stars bash the system that allows them to live high on the hog, while the typical enlisted bubba and their families have to take hand-outs and charity and use food stamps in order to make ends meet. A sad state of affairs.
A not so old man, but just as grumpy
Kush out
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 09:07:11 (ZULU)
<<Subject: A Letter From A Farmer,Now At Camp Pendelton>>
Dear Ma & Pa:
Am well. Hope you are too. Tell brother Walt & brother Elmer the Marine Corps beats working for old man Minch by a country mile. Tell them to join up quick before maybe all of the places are filled. I was shore ‘nuf restless at first becuz you got to stay in bed till nearly 6a.m., but am getting so I like to sleep late.
Tell Walt & Elmer all you do before breakfast is smooth your cot and shine some things. No hogs to slop, feed to pitch, mash to mix, wood to split, fire to start. Practically nothing. Men got to shave but it ain’t so bad, they git warm water n’ everthin’.
Breakfast is strong on trimmings like fruit juice, cereal, eggs, bacon, n stuff, but kind of weak on chops, taters, ham, steak, fried eggplant, pie and other regular food. But tell Walt & Elmer you can always sit between two city fellers that live on coffee. Their food plus yers holds ya till noon, when y’all get fed again. It’s no wonder these city boys cain’t walk much.
We go on “route” marches, which the Platoon Sergeant says are long walks to harden us. If he thinks so, it is not my place to tell him different. A “route march” is about as far as to the mailbox at home. Then the city fellers gits sore feet and we all ride back in trucks. The country is nice, but awful flat. Ain’t got no hills fer miles ‘round.
Sarge (that’s what the fellers call him) is like a school teacher. He nags some. The Capt. is like the school board. Majors & Colonels just ride around & frown.. They don’t bother you none.
Only been in one fight so far. Some big feller said I looked awful good in the shower. I didn’t like him lookin’ at me like that, so I flat decked him with one punch. He shore hit the ground hard. He and the other guys couldn’t believe a 120 pounder could drop a 200 pound guy. They been givin’ me some space since then!
This next one will kill Walt & Elmer with laughing. I keep getting medals for shooting. I don’t know why. The bulls-eye is near as big as a chipmunk and don’t move a’tall. It ain’t shooting at you neither, like them Higgett boys at home. All you got to do is lie there all comfortable and drill it. You don’t even load your own cartridges. They come in boxes. Can ya believe it? Be sure to tell Walt & Elmer to hurry & join before them other fellers get into this setup & come stampeding in.
Your loving daughter, Gail
PS Speaking of shootin’, enclosed is $200 towards a new barn roof & ma’s teeth. Them city boys shoot craps, but not very good.
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 09:46:43 (ZULU)
College sports, at least the big two( football & Basketball) really suck for what they do to the kids. Talk about Indentured Slavery in the Modern era. Yeah, they fix you if you are hurt, but as soon as you cannot play they toss you aside. Then the few that are gifted and leave to make a living are chastised for not staying and finishing their educationj when they are smart and go for the money. I was on the inside of a WAC and a Big Ten Football Program for 6 years, and I could write books on how they use you up and spit you out, but thats another story.
Anyhow Rant off.
Back was better, but now it is as bad as before the surgery if not worse, I can strill feel my leg is about the only good thing, so I am a bit on the irritated side to say the least. I see Doc Monday find out his latest bright idea.
Take care
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 13:13:37 (ZULU)
This crowd honors our nation's fallen heroes...all of them.
I'm not aware of how many, but last week we lost EMS workers, police and if my count is correct, five firefighters. Every year, over 100 US firefighters die in the line (works out to about roughly 2 a week)... 75% are volunteer (unpaid).
The folks you need to reach are those that will never understand, because they have nothing in their lives for which they are willing to risk everything...poor, pathetic souls they are. I pity them.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 14:00:08 (ZULU)
You have mail. N/A.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 14:11:57 (ZULU)
Our space program is what sets us apart from the rest of the world. We're the pioneers and achievers in cutting edge technology and science and all the rest of the world can do is sit back and marvel at the achievements of this country.
So, when someone dies during re-entry, yes...that is significant (especially when its never happened before). A soldier dies in combat, a paramedic is killed while attending to a patient, an officer takes a bullet in the line of duty, is all daily news and captures very little attention. I'm not saying it's right, but its all too common.
MedicJim says it right. ALL HEROES are recognized here. And that's what sets US apart from anybody else. My .02 worth anyway.
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 14:51:44 (ZULU)
For many years I have thought the same way. Everytime I see or hear about a military vehicle(air land or sea) go down with brave souls doing nothing more than training to do their jobs to the best of their ability, I say a prayer. Likewise, when other brave souls are taken to heaven because of hostile action whether it be war, law enforcement or other life saving efforts, I pray too.
I'm not a sports nut; played some in highschool, but was otherwise always working round the family business or something. I didn't 'waste' good hunting or just plain outdoors time to sit & watch the primadonas on the TV. Seeing those folks who make more in one season than I'll ever make in my lifetime makes me kinda sick. I should tell citizens to call them when things go to hell in their neighborhood.
WE; military, law enforcement, fire fighters & rescue folks are truly EXPECTED to face these kinds of daily threats and to possibly die because THAT IS OUR JOB. THAT sucks. Citizens round this still great country believe that is how it works. Nobody feels the pain unless it hits home. Then it is too late. There are laws on the books that describe bodily attacks on cops, fire fighters & a few more groups to be a crime. Very rarly ever pursued by the prosecutors office, because 'it is expected.'
Bureaucrats don't care about these group of peace keepers & care givers until they get a podium to preach from for self benefit.
Anaway, Praise be to the fine folks from the Columbia whose lives were taken un-necessarily. Their pioneering spirit is something for us all to be proud of. Very much likewise for any and all US service men & women and to my brothers & sisters who wear many other uniforms.
moment of silence.
On light rifles. My primary hunting sticks are Steyrs; Mountain Forester and Prohunter models. Can carry all day. I generally like to stalk hunt as in Peter's terrific descriptions. The Forester has a 20" barrel, .30-06, shootes MOA. The Prohunter is their new .376 Steyr. So far shoots MOA, uses a Loopy LPS scope-very nice. Equally easy to handle/carry. The heavy barrel Rem 700 Varmint .308 is chopped off at 20" and shoots single hole but is heavier than I'd want to take on a long stalk. Think I'm gonna re-scope that one with a S&B. One of our instructors who does a lot of the Mauser type thing set up a dreaded RRRUUUGGGG..... Mini 30 with a red dot a while back for kicks. Dang thing shot pretty well. His thought was like Brians, easy handler for closeup work. Musta been ahead of his time. Project got stonewalled up the chain because it wasn't a 'conventional' system/method. Maybe they just hated the RRRUUUGGGG..... too !!
Enough for today
out
Deputy Doug
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K Town, WI, US of Proud A - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 16:56:12 (ZULU)
Please include me in your scenario.
Jerry
Jerry <gmueller@cablespeed.com>
Baltimore, MD, USA - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 17:27:57 (ZULU)
All that having been said, All our hearts grieve for the loss of our own yesterday.
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
LakeCormorant, MS, - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 17:34:03 (ZULU)
I beg to differ. It is our Liberty and Moral Compass(what remains of it) that sets us apart.
Our space program is a byproduct of those.
Even Hitler had one hell of a machine.....
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
LakeCormorant, MS, - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 17:43:21 (ZULU)
Nobody calls the cops when everything is going great for them. That's just the way it is.
We make hard calls, on the spot that directly affect people's lives. Sometimes they are good calls and sometimes they are not so good. Most of the time they are right on the money albeit maybe a little painful for the recipient.
I have had the privledge and honor to be around some of the best Cops, Soldiers, Sailers, Marines and Coast Guardsmen ... Firemen, Paramedics, EMTs, Trauma nurses, Doctors and Clergy.
Sometimes you are appreciated and sometimes not. Doesn't matter.
We do what we do because it is the right thing to do. Sometimes we die doing it. I personally wouldn't do anything else. I am a long way from retirement and dreading it already.
We get our grieving done and we drive on.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 17:49:16 (ZULU)
apologies for not including you-all. The badges, docs and fire fighters the scores of other un-sung heroes of civilian and Gov't joes do it day in and day out, dealing with people at their worst.
On the light rifle thing. I have owned lighter rifles, wound up selling then because I perfered the heavier sticks and the lighter ones sat in the safe, neglected and I still got my M-4 for varmiting. Personal preference? Sure. Besides, I don't really hunt any more, and the only killing I do now a days is the X-ring. For punching paper, I like my heavy beast sittin' on that sand bag.
Keep the blue side up and the greasy side down
Kush out
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 18:56:28 (ZULU)
my good by bless you all, man end woman heros off the space.
love
avi
avi <raviv@dalia.org.il>
haifa, israel, israel - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 19:56:14 (ZULU)
Kimbershooter <ricki@i-c.net>
Disputanta, Va., USA - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 20:13:27 (ZULU)
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 20:30:21 (ZULU)
I'd try Dick Thomas with Premier Reticles before you buy anywhere else. He'll be installing the Gen II Mildot reticle in these and it'll be a magnified reticle, as opposed to leupold static unit. He also has the best prices I have found, and their customer service is second to none.
http://www.premierreticles.com/
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 20:45:22 (ZULU)
thank you very much... And please accept our condolences for the honorable hero Israel lost as well, our thoughts turn to his family, we think of him as one of our own...May the crew of shuttle Columbia rest in peace, and may we take this tragedy not in vain, but as it is, a dangerous volatile business that takes sheer perfection to accomplish, and continue to perfect that perfection..
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 21:01:49 (ZULU)
No apologies necessary bro. I was primarily responding to Gooch's comments, that I agree with, that every day, good, valuable folks are lost to tragic events and it frequently is over-looked. That is all.
Many good, decent folks go on to better places every day and we don't know about them. I guess that is just how we in the human race do things.
Like brother Brian says, I wouldn't do anything different. The 'job' has it's moments, but still the best thing I've ever done.
Later bros
Deputy Doug
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K Town, WI, US of Damn Proud A - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 21:29:19 (ZULU)
Thanks for the suggestions. There are several powders measures to choose from, I didn't want to rely advertising to make my choice.
I still haven't decided which way to go on the .40 pistol. I shot a .40 Glock today and was impressed.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 23:17:56 (ZULU)
Thanks for the info. I looked at Premiers site and I do see it this time. I will be ordering one for my Gardner rifle.
Kimbershooter <ricki@i-c.net>
Disputanta, Va., USA - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 00:00:46 (ZULU)
before you order, make sure you speak with Dick or Chris. They add the M1 knobs to the regular LR scope. The difference between the older premier version and the new Leupold version is the parallax knob will be the target style, and the Leupold ring will be gold instead of blacked out. Dick said he'll be carrying both styles,, so make sure you know which one you're ordering.
I'm thinking of the same scope in 8.5x25x50 for the new Any/Any rifle.
KevinM,
you have a mail regarding rifle cases.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 00:15:35 (ZULU)
Which Kowa angle eye for 1000 yard???????
Quality of Black Hills new red box brass for reloading?
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 00:40:34 (ZULU)
I will give them a call as I want the new style with the Mk4 type parallax adj. I think Leupolds number is 54560.
Kimbershooter <ricki@i-c.net>
Disputanta, Va., USA - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 01:11:27 (ZULU)
The Freeland stand is OK for sitting & prone positions, but it's a little on the wobbly side for standing positions, at least for the heavier scopes such as the Kowa 821.
Bermshot <dnsblack@bellsouth.net>
Rossville, Tn, USA - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 01:54:32 (ZULU)
John btown; Didn't get the mail yet! Probably bogged in sombody's server. Or down at the office. Don't worry yet.
Some questions on the Roster have inspired me to test a BSA Contender. This baby is 6 to 24X. Should be junk at $100.00. I tested it with every method I know how and it passed with flying colors. Optics more than just surprising. Turrets infallable and easy to use. Weight reasonable. 24 power still bright and len's were hard to fault. No power ring shift detectable and the finish is tough or appears to be. I'll be tattling on it if it doesn't measure up. So far I can't believe the results. Only negative so far are the screws that hold the turret. I thought Leupold's were bad. I don't what size this thing is but it appears to be metric. Must be 2mm or something. I'm fresh out and no furnished wrench. Scope has nice sunshade and good instructions. If this thing works ok on the rifle it's on I may try the mil dot model. Creature features other than that wrench are excellent. Tested to 800 yards, resetability and accuracy of turret best I've ever tested of anyones. 1/8 clicks would not be tactical but the turret is marked in moa and it's right on. Typical range .308 without tapered bases 800 yards on 2 different rifles with 2 different type mounts.
Also testing the Burris Mil Dot ballistic plex. Not enough data yet but all basic stuff is solid enough. This is the cheap one at $450 bucks. Glass is good but no better than the Chicom BSA. Turrets are inferior to the Chicom but also finger adjustable,reset OK but not spectacular. Power ring is Accurate and no shift. We shall see how the tic marks on the reticle shoot. 50mm model light excellent. Finish nice. Focus ring on rear, so so 14X is ranging magnification. But others can be used to get different trajectory. We shall see.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Monday, February 3, 2003, at 03:12:06 (ZULU)
YES, I'M A BAD AMERICAN
by George Carlin
I Am Your Worst Nightmare. I am a BAD American. I am George Carlin.
I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some mid level governmental functionary be it Democratic or Republican!
I'm in touch with my feelings and I like it that way, damn it!
I think owning a gun doesn't make you a killer, it makes you a smart American.
I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, and does not entitle you to anything.
I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, try to do it in English.
I think fireworks should be legal on the 4th of July.
I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment
than working at Blockbuster. In fact, if your parents are footing the bill to put your pansy ass through 4 years plus, of college, you haven't begun to be enlightened.
I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God when and where they want to.
My heroes are John Wayne, Babe Ruth, Roy Rogers, and whoever canceled
Jerry Springer.
I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor.
I know wrestling is fake and I don't waste my time arguing about it.
I think global warming is a big lie. Where are all those experts now,
when I'm freezing my ass off during these long winters and paying, paying, paying?
I've never owned a slave, or was a slave, I didn't wander forty years In the desert after getting chased out of Egypt. I haven't burned any witches or been persecuted by the Turks and neither have you! So, shut-the-Hell-up already.
I want to know which church is it exactly where the Reverend Jesse
Jackson practices, where he gets his money, and why he is always part of the problem and not the solution. Can I get an AMEN on that one?
I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry ass if you're
running from them.
I also think they have the right to pull your ass over if you're
breaking the law, regardless of what color you are.
I think if you are too stupid to know how a ballot works, I don't want you deciding who should be running the most powerful nation in the world for the next four years.
I dislike those people standing in the intersections trying to sell me crap or trying to guilt me into making "donations" to their cause. These people should be targets.
I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes two parents.
And what the hell is going on with gas prices... again?
If this makes me a BAD American, then yes, I'm a BAD American.
If you are a BAD American too, please forward this to everyone you know. We need our country back!
Kush out
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 04:30:05 (ZULU)
I thought you were going to post a joke, where is it?
Later,
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 07:17:57 (ZULU)
Guy goes to the drugstore and asks pharmacist for cyanide. Pharmacist says,"what for?" Guy says he's gonna kill his wife. Pharmacist says no can do that's illegal. Guy pulls out wallet and produces photo of wife and pharmacist says, "I didn't know you had a prescription."
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 10:39:15 (ZULU)
Into a Belfast pub comes Paddy Murphy, looking like he'd just been run over by a train. His arm is in a sling, his nose is broken, his face is cut and bruised, and he's walking with a limp.
"What happened to you?" asks Sean, the bartender.
"Jamie O'Conner and me had a fight," says Paddy.
"That little shit, O'Conner?" says Sean. "He couldn't do that to you; he must have had something in his hand."
"That he did," says Paddy. "a shovel is what he had, and a terrible lickin' he gave me with it."
"Well," says Sean, "you should have defended yourself. Didn't you have something in your hand?"
"That I did," said Paddy. "Mrs. O'Conner's breast, and a thing of beauty it was, but useless in a fight."
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 13:34:47 (ZULU)
Well many thanks to US Tactical's hard work. MY slings are now on GSA Schedule. Looks like JC should be busy making slings.
I was able to get time to go to Shot Show this year. I will be at the Valtro Booth, but visiting GA Precision/Badger daily. I put off surgery until I get back. Look for the old ugly guy wearing a knee brace and little hair. Damm glad to be home from Afghanistan. I pray daily for all our guys over there. Its really the worst place on the earth.
I look forward to seeing you all there. Lots to get caught up on.
Kevin M, Sinsiter, Pablito, Ken's, BRogers you guys going?
Undude/Mike
Mike Miller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 15:26:48 (ZULU)
A friend in Florida had to kill a guy a few weeks ago. The BG was a felon, holed up in a house. Decided to make a break for it. Ran out of the house with a pistol in each hand blazing, just like TV.
My boy (proficient shot - Whitefeather, Blackwater grad) took a running body shot and put him down. Wasn't the best hit but did the job. Shooting a PSS. He wasn't happy with the shot. Perfectionist like most of us. He did just fine.
That said, I understand all too well that a heavy rifle is better than a light one when you are winded and trying to settle the crosshairs and I agree with this totally. No arguement here whatsoever.
But (speaking for myself only) on THESE TYPES of deals, a big ole heavy barreled stick with a big ole scope, bagged or bi-podded up is not neccessarily the best thing to have and damn hard to swing at a close up mover. Especially one who's shooting back.
One very well may have to just jump up, find centermass and break the shot. Murphy says you will have been cramped or bent over or around something for hours prior to having to "just jump up".
In my research for my book, many, many of the guys I have spoken with often times took very close shots with their rifles and then Di Di'd the hell out of there. Some had to just pass on the shots and let the VC/NVA slip by due to the chance of being over run. Close work. Canals were very small. "Pistol distance" sniping at times. Sometimes afoot. Sometimes from the bow of a boat parked in the mangrove and nipa palms. (Sure hope that outboard starts).
One man, a wing shooter, walked up on and surprised several VC. He used his birdhunting skills to quickly take them all out at close range, in dense jungle, with a Starlight, Sionics suppressed (i.e. HEAVY), M14. He basically point shot 'em. Far cry from the fine long range work done in the mountains.
I guess some would argue that he may have been on a sniping mission but that this wasn't "really" sniping. Whatever. I wouldn't try and tell him that.
Unbelieveable stories those warriors tell me. Humbling.
Another friend, 'Nam Vet, tunnel rat, weighs every bit of 130 lbs., now a Cop Sniper in the next town over, got a family disturbance call a few years back. Showed up and the BG had a knife to his wife's throat. My friend pulled his Beretta and shot the guy between the eyes. Sniping? I think so. Same shot he was taking with his rifle a few days before in practice ... he just did it with a Beretta.
Later fellas,
Brian
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 3, 2003, at 15:36:14 (ZULU)
John Bechtell <ajbechtell@yahoo.com>
historic Gettysburg, PA, USA - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 15:43:56 (ZULU)
I too have a Glock 23. I can't hit the side of a barn with a pistol at range... I figure a pistol is for up-close-and-personal and I like the reliability, weight and size of the Glock.
Brian S. - What can a scout rifle do that a 16" AR variant cannot? The scout strikes me as a rifle without a role. A bolt gun for up-close work when you can have a repeater? Not for me.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Monday, February 3, 2003, at 16:10:12 (ZULU)
"Never said I didn't know how to use 'em" ... Quigley
I just grew up throwing a .22 bolt gun to my shoulder and shooting at squirrels from a long time ago. I'm quicker and more practiced with a classic stocked bolt action than a pistol gripped 15.
Guess I could practice with the 15 some more. PD buys me bullets in both calibers.
Maybe I'm just thinking the "man with only one gun" thing. If I have an LTR with backup open sights and an aimpoint, I've got a 600 yard precision rifle I can still scope if I need to dump the red dot.
I dunno. shit.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 3, 2003, at 16:35:44 (ZULU)
- - - - - - -Quote- - - - - - -
Re: the weight/technology thread.
1. A well trained soldier with minimal technology will probably defeat a shitty trained soldier with state if the art technology. Its the man behind the weaponry more than the weaponry itself.
2. A military with state of the art technology is worthless unless it can coordinate the use of this technology into the big scheme of things.
- - - - - - -- - - - - - -
Damn good observation. Got any more like that?
And about the Astronauts, its a sad sad deal. But like Gooch pointed out, "All of the above are terrible but when 4 Soldiers die in a Blackhawk in Afghanistan it barely makes the evening news and is quickly forgotten."
I guess its just SOP, the public seems to expect members of the military to get killed, so to them its not a tragedy - its part of our jobs to die.
Thats seems to be the attitude I get from some people (civilians with no family in the military) around here and in my college classes when the topic of Iraq or A-stan comes up.
Sometimes I get the impression that some (many?) members of the public feel that military members are just a consumable good that enables them to drive their 9MPG Excursions and to keep the 'raghead' suicide bombers outside the gates.
Go figure.
dakotaaviator <dakotaaviator@hotmail.com>
- Monday, February 3, 2003, at 16:36:07 (ZULU)
Perhaps a sniper should have his SWS on his back and a M4 with Aimpoint in his hands. Andy's M4 with Comp ML will make head shots at ranges out to 150 yards seem easy. From the low ready making snap shots to the body at 50 yards is a one second job. There is a reason Tiger Woods has a bag full of clubs.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 17:22:50 (ZULU)
Rod
Rod Hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Monday, February 3, 2003, at 17:38:19 (ZULU)
I always bring my caddy, although we refer to him as my Sherpa. I let him shoot sometimes too.
Kevin
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 18:04:30 (ZULU)
Health issues here too on the Oklahoma shoot. MIne and others. It's a toss up. I'm waiting to see for sure all the positions are sold. It would be a waste to put me in the Okla sun in June, crawled a lot in that country more than all of you ever will together with young guys wanting to compete. Maybe Doc and I can hold the lid up on the beer cooler if nothing else if I can loose. But crawlin chiggers in 100 degree sun would be a disaster for me. Can anyone dial 911?
Andy; Sorry I read that as M9 instead of M4. I got to keep my glasses by the computer. No small feat anyway!
Jim Mitchel; I'd just ditto what Brian said. The original questions was about whether a model 7 would be a good choice and I think I responded with a savage scout as a possibility. Probably at close range the M-16 or AR would be as effective. I think originally that was not considered either.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Monday, February 3, 2003, at 19:07:27 (ZULU)
Andy M., you followin' what I'm gettin at?
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Monday, February 3, 2003, at 19:39:58 (ZULU)
Here is my story - I was shooting 'stock gun' class IPSC with a 9mm Glock 17, and I loved it, lotsa bullets, very low maintenance, and it pointed 'just right' but it was minor calibre, and that affected my scores.
So's I wanted a major calibre (.40 or greater) pistol. Without a doubt, the one I liked the most was a .45 Glock, but its built on a large frame, and I've only got small hands...so I got a full size .40 Glock (cannot remember the model no.), tried all sortsa loads (reloads and factory) but it kicked/flipped/recoiled like buggery - a lot worse than either .45 or 10mm.
Another trait was poor accuracy, this was (still is?) a by-product of shoe-horning a .40 into a 9mm poor accuracy was not seen in .40 cals built on .45 or 10mm frames, theory was that the slide velocity of the 40 was so great unlocking had started whilst the bullet was still in the barrel.
Thre were are few 40 Glocks on the UK IPSC circuit, and they all suffered the above to some degree. Eventually they all got traded for .40 cal 1911's. For ultimate reliability in 1911s, the ammo had to be loaded to a loooooong OAL, just like a Remington.
Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 19:40:22 (ZULU)
Count me in on holdin' up the beer cooler lid. I'm not real big on crawlin' with the chiggers either.
Doc
Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The breezy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 19:49:13 (ZULU)
But isn't that the exact point, Sniping is hunting??
Personaly I'd rather carry a lighter sniper rifle (12lbs) in a carry bag on my back and have a moderated(silenced) sub machine gun in my hands whilst following the appropriately armed spotter into the final RV,for the final part of the stalk in to the FP then the Sniper rifle would be carried. Saving me about 7lbs on the sniper rifle would allow me to carry the sub gun right? or even without the sub gun a lighter sniper rifle would be faster to use in a hurry should the stalk be comprimised.
AS far as i'm concerned heavey barrels belong on target rifles that don't get carried much.But yes its personal preference, my 1 heavey rifle stays usualy in the safe, i do use it on targets and have hunted with it, the weight however is a definate hinderance, I can't however remember complaining about the weight of an Enfield L42 when i was required to carry one, i was however much much fitter then, and it sure as hell beat carrying the GPMG. I certainly wouldn't have complained if it had been lighter though.(not that the L42 was a real heavey weight).
Gooch, i must admit that when i saw the pics of the white house with the flag at half mast, i wondered if the flag was at the same hieght the other day when the Black Hawk went in.
Alan, Ref the Rem 700 and the soft bolt theory, i figure thats just some old wives tale that Jon's aquantance had picked up some where. I can only speak from the experience i have had in setting the barrel shoulder back on the rifles i have done it on, I have definately seen excessive head space, it was 2mm on one rifle.The ejector was definately seating the round in the chamber and the bolt face was definately not touching the case,all detrimental to accuracy. by removing the ejector and shimming the bolt face until the round is pushed home with slight pressure you can work out how much, of course there are more technical ways to measure this but just to check that this may be causeing your accuracy problems, before you get into taking the rifle apart its a fairly simple task to carry out. Now due to the cost of living here, most shooters seem reluctant to fork out for a new barrel, so although i always try to convince that loosing the Rem factory barrel in favour of a decent one is the way to go, i have set the shoulder back the required amount to make the bolt face touch the case when the round is fully chambered,many times and low and behold, what an improvement.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 20:16:33 (ZULU)
Incomming from my work address. 1 Attachment. I have Norton at home and work, so it should be clean.
Caison
Caison <tjsarchett@ezol.com>
Dela-Where?, - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 20:39:32 (ZULU)
I actually own a Mk11 and I'm biased towards the weapon, but I was still surprised by his response. He told me that his experience with the reliability of the weapon has been great. Everything from water ops to jumps to nasty weather conditions. He said he has yet to have any problems. He also commented that he felt very comfortable patrolling with the weapon, even in urban environments. Being able to patrol with the same weapon that you will have to take your sniper shot with has it's advantages. I seem to remember him referring to not having to carry a bolt gun and an M4 to patrol into position with.
I asked at what range he felt comfortable with this weapon and he said anything from 800 and in. And if he had to take a longer shot, he said "if I miss him with the first shot I'll nail the SOB with the other 19."
Oh and he loves using the gun with the suppressor system that was designed to be used with it. Felt the accuracy was not diminished in any way. He told me he was about to be deployed and felt good about the weapon he was being issued.
I'm just passing this info on. I don't know enough to have a valid opinion, but I do love this gun.
Uh-oh I just brought up gas guns on Sniper Country. I figure your not really a part of the team until you've had your nose swatted once or twice…
John Levens.
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 20:53:52 (ZULU)
Doc; I shouldn't have let em know about the chiggers out there. But these are my buddies for the most part. Do you think they know about the 8' diamond backs? It's Ok guys, they taste like fried chicken only a little tougher! OH yeah, they don't care what you taste like!
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Monday, February 3, 2003, at 21:57:55 (ZULU)
<<One man, a wing shooter, walked up on and surprised several VC. He used his birdhunting skills to quickly take them all out at close range, in dense jungle, with a Starlight, Sionics suppressed (i.e. HEAVY), M14. He basically point shot 'em. Far cry from the fine long range work done in the mountains.>>
Bet this guy did "Quick Kill" in basic. At Benning in 67 started us with daisy air rifles, no sights, shooting at tossed "slugs". Some us got to where we could hit dimes with some consistency. Having grown up shooting skeet was a great asset. Then went to miniature silouttes (sp?). Final phase was night firing with the M14, unsighted, at the 25 meter range. Great fun and obviously had some bennies to it.
Don
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, US of A - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 22:00:03 (ZULU)
My "hunting" rifle is a M-98 taken from the war by my uncle. Original metal but a nice custom stock and Redfield one-piece base. It's a MOA shooter. I just don't get to use it enough. My last hunt with it was in 97 when I returned from ROK.
For pistolas, I like STEEL. Had a 9mm BHP at one time, it's probably the only model 9mm I'd ownd because of the steel frame. Had to sell it for other things, but have 3-.45's. A VERY worn Gold Cup I used a LOT shooting IPSC back in the early days of the game, and for carry a couple of hi-caps. Oh yeah, and I DON'T LIKE DA pistols. Gimme a clean single action trigger any day.
Titan: Damn man, you're too young to be that wrecked up. Every time my back goes out I wonder if this be the time they want to cut on me. I don't want it to come to that. And thanks for the info on Mike Rock. He's workin the AR-10 bbl for me this week.
Take care all, especially those whose jobs take them into harms way.
T
Caison <tjsarchett@ezol.com>
Dela-Where?, - Monday, February 3, 2003, at 22:03:10 (ZULU)
Would love to have one of those puppies but they ain't cheap.
I know, I know ... Speed costs money. How fast you wanna go?
Don: The guy I spoke of was in WWII, Korea and Nam. Helps the police now.
Edited again: I have a RRA M4 flat top, ARMS SIR, ARMS 40 flip up rear, Aimpoint Comp, GGG mount, SOCOM style heavy barrel, Surefire M900 front grip, green furniture, 2 stage trigger, yada, yada, yada.
Nice piece ... but I still like the feel of a bolt gun.
Later guys ...
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 3, 2003, at 22:05:16 (ZULU)
Yeah, sniping is hunting, at least on the Mil side and even on the LEO side. Your "hunting" the BG's. Yeah, we had our missions as scouts, gathering recon for the Battalion, Regiment, Division, what have you. But, when we rucked up with our M40A1's, we were going out looking for the enemy ,and eliminate then with either direct, or more preferably indirect fire. I did, and still do perfer a heavier rifle, I feel it sits more stable on the weird combos of supported and un-supported positions used in field shooting.
However, your preference to carry a sub-gun is right on. All we ever carried was a MEU-SOC .45 as our back up, and our spotter had an AR and M203. That little pop-gun we had wouldn't get U too far in a fight. I do know that the new HK-PDW was a gun that the MC had been looking at. Nice light little back-up shooter.
On the Glock-N-spiel debate, I have my little Glock 27 in .40 for a CCW gun. It's sooooooooo cute.
Byron, yeah, I know what you mean.
Just my $.02
Keep the blue side up and the greasy side down
Kush out
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 00:39:42 (ZULU)
Chiggers...
Diluted or full strength bleach (Clorox) wiped over the effected area will usually give IMMEDIATE relief.
Larry
(I doubt it will work with 'Diamond Backs...')
Larry J. Porter <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USofA - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 02:46:44 (ZULU)
most likely these pistol are agency turn ins. I have bought a few like this. The agency gets new pistols, or changes to another cal, or whatever, and the agency will sell this pistols off in a lot, or they get sent back to Glock, refinished, new springs etc,, and sold as re-fits. We had a run sell here with TWRA (Tennessee Wildlife Resourses Aagency) nicely engraved into the side. My G22 has 159SCSO engraved into the slide in front of the serial number. I'd put it up agianst any new Glock on the market.
I have two now,,a G22 and a G27. The only failure I've had from either was some FTF from a worn out G22 highcap non-drop free. I trust them both.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 03:04:32 (ZULU)
Brogers, send me some of that rattler meat! Good stuff and haven't had any for a long time.
DON'T FORGET!!!!!!!!
Matches at Butner start 2/16
http://www.northstateshootingclub.com/Frames/Frame_Schedule.htm
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 03:13:13 (ZULU)
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 03:13:38 (ZULU)
Well folks I've been working on this one for a few weeks and wanted to have everything in place before I announced it.
Terry Cross of KMW Long Range Solutions is donating a KMW M2 rifle as the "Top Gun" prize!
I dont have all the specs. yet but what I can tell you is:
Remington 700 .308 trued action
Krieger barrel
McMillan stock
Now as soon as Terry sends me the complete specs I'll re-post the specfics!
Come on get your registrations in the prize table is HOT!!
I just did some quick ballpark figuring and the total prizes are running right under $8000 and growing daily!!
When I say HOT I mean HOT!
Sarge
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 04:28:39 (ZULU)
Army was still using them in '72 when I went through basic at Fort Ord. Only difference was they tossed softballs to hit with BB's and by then we were using the M-16.
Where has the time gone?
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 05:39:04 (ZULU)
I'm telling too much of my research here ...
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 14:04:05 (ZULU)
Tease!!!
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 14:11:29 (ZULU)
I am looking for a good (meaning something I can't break easily) tripod. I have went through two compact camera tripods in the last two years. The latch that holds the removable shoe on the top of these tripods just doesn't seem to hold up well. I have looked at the bushnell, burris, leupold, and nikon compact tripods.
Any recommendations would be appreciated.
Kevin M., what tripod did you have at the match at Storm last year? It looked to be about the size I am looking for and if I remember correctly it did not have a "camera" tripod head.
Thanks in advance.
Keith
Two warm days and I didn't get to the range. Sub-freezing weather coming back. I am beginning to not like winter.
Keith <keith37f20@excite.com>
North Central, WV, USA - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 14:24:53 (ZULU)
The tripod I've been using is a cheap Wal-Mart special with too many plastic parts. The rifle cradle I use is home made. I start with a 8" long piece of 4" diameter PVC pipe. I split the pipe along the long axis and deburred the edges and rounded the corners. Then I installed a 1/4-20 threaded insert in the center of the now half round piece. At each end of the "gutter" I glue strips of USGI sleeping mat foam. This can be attached to any photographic tripod by means of the screw that normally comes as part of the tripod.
There is a picture of Andy and Me using the tripod and shooting sticks: http://www.stormmountain.com/images/LRR2-Alternate%20Positions.jpg
While attending the SWAT/Sniper Symposium last month I saw a heavy duty tripod for sale. At $160 it was pretty much top of the line. It was durable and heavy. I was tempted but resisted. I might give those guys a call later.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 14:53:13 (ZULU)
Your Glock explanation makes sense, Agency turn-ins is likely the reason. Thanks
Bisley,
Thanks for your input as well.
John Bechtell <ajbechtell@yahoo.com>
historic Gettysburg, PA, - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 15:40:32 (ZULU)
How did the Symposium go? Haven't spoken with anyone that went this year. I'm going to have to try and get up there some time. Long way from Tejas ...
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 16:12:44 (ZULU)
Yes Center Mass was the outfit. Their Cat.No.3205GN $173.95 w/shipping.
Ref: S/S Symposium
Great stuff. Deputy Doug was there too. Good time.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 17:00:40 (ZULU)
Rod
Rod Hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 17:39:45 (ZULU)
I just got a notification from my wife. Her eBay account has been compromised. Remind anyone who uses a computer to NEVER reply to a message from a company requesting you to confirm your userID and password. I know, it's simple shit, but she said "It really looked authentic".
Yeah, at least she's got... Won't go there.
And I too have been getting the Big Boss stuff (never heard of him so I never opened any of his stuff) along with all the requests to give me millions and all the freaky stuff too. What did we do before computers???
T
Caison <tjsarchett@ezol.com>
Dela-Where?, - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 18:05:24 (ZULU)
TonyY <ayackowski@pershing.com>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 19:28:57 (ZULU)
I just read about how German "officials" are now enacting legislation to ban the feared spud gun.
Today the potato, tomorrow the world!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 19:43:21 (ZULU)
Does anyone have a web address for Center Mass. I like to give my business to guys that support us.
I have been leaning toward the Leupold because it will raise high enough to use with my rifle cradle. I am trying to stay below the $100 mark but I know you get what you pay for.
Tony, do you know a good source for the Bogen setup?
Thanks
Keith
Keith Knotts <keith37f20@excite.com>
- Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 20:24:31 (ZULU)
Later,
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
- Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 20:39:46 (ZULU)
Premier Reticle sells Bogen tripods.
You may also want to check out the Nightforce unit. Not sure if they still make it, but it seemed like a nice unit, albeit big and expensive.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 22:21:35 (ZULU)
Brian
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 23:06:54 (ZULU)
Email coming your way, no attachments.
Jerry
Jerry <gmueller@cablespeed.com>
Baltimore, MD, USA - Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 23:49:26 (ZULU)
Ive been thinking more about this scout rifle set up, some one mentioned that a scout scope is hard to see through in bad light or at night, If we used an aimpoint( Comp M or one of the others that in NVD compatible)(and ive found the red dot of an aimpoint easy to use in poor light), mounted it forward on a scout rail and an night vision monocular mounted to the rear on the same rail, then we would have a pretty good set up, looking through the NVD and using the dot in the aimpoint for aiming, your then set up for short range night operations, remove the NVD and your set up for quick target aquisition in day light, dusk or dawn. Then we have a regular scope which we can mount should the need arise for a closer look at longer range, lets say a 1.5-6x42 S&B, or a 3-10x42 Leupold, or what ever your preference is. I think this would be... "Multi Optic Versatility" and it would work on a lever gun, bolt gun or semi auto. Such a set up would be an ideal patrol rifle for a policeman or if used on the right weapon, a damn good set up for a scout/spotter rifle.
I see that the SOB that sold me the jeep is selling another, i've half a mind to get a mate to pretend to want to buy the sod and crash it on the test drive.. my lawyer is on the case, I suppose i better persue the legal channels first.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 00:05:10 (ZULU)
That Centermass site has some real neat stuff. One thing about tripods though. While it provides a stable platform for the front of the rifle at different heights just keep in mind that it's the shooter that moves. If you can get your back against something solid that's fine but I kind of wrap myself around the tripod and shoot by holding onto the legs.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 00:53:32 (ZULU)
http://nramemberscouncils.com/caspecial/la50banbarrett.shtml
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 01:20:30 (ZULU)
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 01:36:30 (ZULU)
Jim,
I am interested in the scenario your posting about . Please sign me up.
-Critter
web crittenden <webcrittenden@aol.com>
- Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 02:11:03 (ZULU)
See the SWFA Aimpoint page for a similar setup on an AR15 carbine.
http://www.swfa.com/riflescopes/aimpoint/index.html or click on my name
NVG compatible version is the M2 (4 MOA dot) or M2 (2X with 2 MOA dot).
Don
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
- Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 05:51:43 (ZULU)
Ronnie is a good man. If "principle" could be measured, he's got more than half of the state of Kalifornicate combined. I fired a short note to the council(by virtue of the link at the top of the page) on the joys of Socialism. If we'd stop calling 'em liberals and call 'em socialist,(a spade ia a spade) maybe part of America would wake up. Thanks for the link. I love gettin' politically motivated before I finish my first cup of joe. Everyone on this board should send the folks a note.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 11:38:06 (ZULU)
https://www.adoramaphoto.com/
TonyY <ayackowski@pershing.com>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 12:09:59 (ZULU)
I have a bronze challenge coin that was given to me by a NASA representative a long time ago. It commemorated the maiden flight of the Columbia in April of 1981. Although I was just a machinist working my way through college on the GI bill I helped make some of the components used on the Columbia as well as her sister ships.
On the back of the coin it says,
“Thank you for your contribution toward making the world’s first orbital flight of the Space Shuttle STS1 possible. We would like you to have this memento made in part, of metal taken from the Columbia.”
I must admit, it is hard for me to read the small print with tears in my eyes.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 12:18:01 (ZULU)
I found a scope you might be interested in. When I get home I'll send it to ya as an attachment. I don't have your email address on this 'puter.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 13:00:48 (ZULU)
On the way. W/A.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 13:41:16 (ZULU)
I was sent the below announcement the other day and thought some of you would like to read it. I am glad to see that the UK government is finally taking the threat of Muslim extremeists seriously :-
Britain against terrorism
As we all know, the Taliban considers it a mortal sin for a man to see a
naked woman who is not his wife.
So, this Saturday at 2:00 pm (GMT) all British women are asked to walk
out of their house completely naked to help weed out any neighbourhood
terrorists.
Circling around the block for one hour is recommended for this
anti-terrorist effort to have full effect.
All men are to position themselves in chairs in front of their house to
prove they are not Taliban, demonstrating that they think it's okay to see
nude women other than their wife and to show support for all British
women.
And, since the Taliban also does not approve alcohol, a cold six-pack of
Stella or Heineken at your side is further proof of your anti-Taliban
sentiment.
The British Government appreciates your efforts to root out terrorists and
applauds your participation in this anti-terrorist activity, especially
considering the current weather conditions.
God Save the Queen!
All the Best
Jon
P.S. Thanks for the replies about soft Remmy bolts, or lack there of.
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 13:57:57 (ZULU)
Speaking of knee, got MRI results back yesterday. Doc says "You can walk on that?" I told him when it came time to choose between staying in Afghanistan permanently and walking on it to get home, the pain was not that bad.LOL. Seems I tore both upper and lower minisucs (Spelling?) severed my ACL,Anterior Cruciate Ligament and broke my Tibia. He went on to question how I did it. He just wont buy I fell. Kept telling him I was not a victim of domestic abuse and it really did not matter how I hurt it. Well bottom line is about six months of light duty after surgery.
Wes, do I hear your knee is getting better? I hope so.
Kevin, you just about got me to cry today. I have a jar similar to yours but nothing from space program, especially the first shuttle flight. Hope to buy you a beer at the Shot Show.
Undude/Mike
Sarge, sling should be on your door today at the latest.
MIkeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 14:45:18 (ZULU)
All I can say is F*****G OUCH!
Just proves that a body can go one hell of a lot farther than most think - if they have the proper motivation.....
Take care and get well man.....
Steve ~ Hockeyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
- Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 17:05:50 (ZULU)
To do that much damage, you must have jumped #1 out of a moving vehicle, #2 out of a building or #3 in front of a truck. We may have to put you in a monty python movie.... 'a mere flesh wound'.
get well.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 17:43:35 (ZULU)
Pete; I bet your right that dot would be turned down and probably not visable. Most of the sights have about 10 positions and some start at the brightest and then turn down and others can go either way, I think the later ones you can start on 0 and go to 1.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 17:55:34 (ZULU)
Dinger <ding556@yahoo.com>
- Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 18:12:00 (ZULU)
A German is facing a muslim, and asks if he can talk to the muslims horse.
The muslim answers: The horse can not talk, but go ahead.
The German asks the horse if the muslim is good for the horse and the horse aswers positively.
Then, the German asks if he can talk to the muslims dog.
Again the muslim answers: The dog cannot talk, but go ahead and try.
The German asks the dog, if the muslim is a good person and the dog answers, that the muslim is a good person.
Than, the German asks again: Can I talk to your sheep ?
The muslim answers: Sheep do lie
See ya,
Val
Val Sessink <v.sessink1@chello.nl>
- Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 19:10:20 (ZULU)
Got excellent service from Ernie Traugh at Cedar Valley Outfitters of Marion, Ohio.
Best price I could find on a VS 308. Fast shipping, too. Also says he can drop ship non-gun items to home address in lower 48. Sounds real competitive w/ pricing.
DAMN, Mike...
Spud
dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
merced, Kalifornicateya, usa - Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 19:26:41 (ZULU)
From the latest Sierra newsletter, something to add to our formulae repertoire!
To calculate the RPM of a fired bullet:
Velocity x 720 (constant) divided by twist rate equals Rotations per Minute
Example given: 22.250 at 1:12 twist 55 gr bullet at 3700 fps
(3700)(720)/12 = 222,000 rpm
That is some serious spin! Let’s talk about gyroscopic precession. (I think somebody once called this spindrift.) Ducking now.
Hummm. SMK168 at 2550 out of a 10 twist gun = 183,600 rpm
SMK168 at 2550 out of a 12 twist gun = 153,000 rpm
Thanks to Mr. Robert Treece for the above.
Be safe guys. Get well Michael.
Bill0294 <lhardin21@netscape.net>
Clearwater, Flori-duh, - Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 21:36:22 (ZULU)
Yeah, youse better duck!! hah..
I'll play the newbie this time...
so, what does all this rpm stuff tell ya? The difference in RPM from the 168SMK fired at same velocities in the 10" and 12" twist rifles means what? You slow the velocity down for the 10" twist to match the RPM of the 12" to get good results, or vice versa(speed the 12" to meet 10" RPM)?
What does it all mean man......
And just if anyone's wondering what the constant is, not a magic number, it's to be able to convert fps to inches per minute. 1fps= 720" per minute. that way you can finish the calculations, cancel out stuff, ez enough.
I'm out
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 22:18:11 (ZULU)
Lotsa Loopys in the Sample List on SWFA!
Dennis
dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
merced, Kalisocialistfornia, usa - Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 23:30:05 (ZULU)
JR,
You can bet I have my kevlar in place. I find the math fascinating. I'm not smart enough to integrate the Greenhill formula with the RPM thingie but there has got to be a connection. Everything in nature boils down to something simple.
We'll figure this stuff out eventually.
Be safe and enjoy your evening.
Bill0294 <lhardin21@netscape.net>
Clearwater, FL, - Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 01:11:20 (ZULU)
Thanks Dusty
Dusty <dhamilton69@aol.com>
- Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 01:29:07 (ZULU)
That was funny.
Dinger;
You may be able to ask the Better Business Bureau for some info about them. You paid for it, they should give you your order or a refund. If they do send it, make sure you get your overnight refunded.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL, Heart of Dixie, USA - Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 03:53:16 (ZULU)
I think that you have been more than patient regarding this issue! Call them up and request that the product or your money is sent to you over night pronto! If they are not willing to resolve it ASAP, let them know that you will start making some calls to the USPS for mail fraud, their local PD, BBB, etc. I suspect that when they know that you need to be taken care of they will address your concerns.
I know the small savings seemed tempting four weeks ago, but this is exactly the reason why I tend to go with companies that either I know about, or that friends of mine have dealt with. I got both of my Leica LRFs from SWFA and was very pleased with the service....
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 08:25:50 (ZULU)
In the meantime, I have received a few messages from others with similar experiences. So, take notice if you plan to order from them. It may take a while. As always, you get what you pay for. I think I'll stick with SWFA or Premier Reticles next time.
Memo to self "Don't order anything from AAA Binocular!"
Dinger <ding556@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 16:19:21 (ZULU)
Further, the gunners operating the M2s mounted on armored hummers appeared to be highly vulnerable to small caliber attack from above...
Have changes been made to these platforms which may provide superior performance in upcoming conflicts in urban environs?
Lastly, what guerilla tactics employed by republican guard or taliban troops are likely to remanifest in urban conflicts abroad in the near future...
How might precision fires from sniper teams be employed to counter said tactics?
Obviously, there is a limit to what should be discussed here on a public forum, but some level of exchange is probably possible without compromise or risk to friendly troops.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 17:50:56 (ZULU)
danny mull <drm8194@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 18:19:34 (ZULU)
Well the memorial for our flight medic went great, a proper send off.
I'm going to burn some bandwith now, recieved this via e-mail, very interesting.
World War II produced many heroes. One such man was Lt. Commander Butch O'Hare. He was a fighter pilot assigned to an aircraft carrier,
Lexington, in the South Pacific. One day his entire squadron was sent on a mission. After he was airborne, he looked at his fuel gauge and realized that someone had forgotten to top off his fuel tank. He would not have enough fuel to complete his mission and get back to his ship. His flight leader told him to return to the carrier.
Reluctantly, he dropped out of formation and headed back to the fleet.
As he was returning to the mother ship, he saw something that turned his blood cold. A squadron of Japanese bombers was speeding their way toward the American fleet. The American fighters were gone on a sortie and the fleet was all but defenseless. He couldn't reach his squadron and bring them back in time to save the fleet. Nor, could
he warn the fleet of the approaching danger. There was only one thing
he could do. He must somehow divert them from the fleet. Laying aside all thoughts of personal safety, he dived into the formation of Japanese planes. Wing-mounted 50 caliber's blazed as he charged in, attacking one surprised enemy plane and then another. Butch, weaving in and out of the now broken formation, fired at as many planes as possible until finally all his ammunition was spent. Undaunted, he continued the assault. He dove at the planes, trying to at least clip off a wing or tail, in hopes of damaging as many enemy planes as possible and rendering them unfit to fly. He was desperate to do
anything he could to keep them from reaching the American ships. Finally, the exasperated Japanese squadron took off to another direction. Deeply relieved, Butch O'Hare and his tattered fighter limped back to the carrier. Upon arrival he reported in and related the event surrounding his return. The film from the cameras mounted on his plane told the tale. It showed the extent of Butch's daring attempt to protect his fleet. He had destroyed five enemy bombers. That was on February 20, 1942, and for that action he became the Navy's first Ace of W.W.II and the first Naval Aviator to win the Congressional Medal of Honor. A year later he was killed in aerial combat at the age of 29. His home town would not allow the memory of that heroic action die. And today, O'Hare Airport in Chicago is named in tribute to the curage of this great man. The next time time you are in O'Hare visit his memorial with his statue and Medal of Honor. It is located between Terminal 1 and Terminal 2.
Story Number Two
Some years earlier there was a man in Chicago called Easy Eddie.
At that time, Al Capone virtually owned the city. Capone wasn't famous for anything heroic. His exploits were anything but praiseworthy. He was, however, notorious for enmeshing the city of Chicago in everything from bootlegged booze and prostitution to murder. Easy Eddie was Capone's lawyer and for a good reason. He was very good! In fact, his skill at legal maneuvering kept Big Al out of jail for a long time. To show his appreciation, Capone paid him very well. Not only was the money big; Eddie got special dividends. For instance, he and his family occupied a fenced-in mansion with live-in help and all of the conveniences of the day. The estate was so large that it filled an entire Chicago city block. Yes, Easy Eddie lived
the high life of the Chicago mob and gave little consideration to the atrocity that went on around him. Eddie did have one soft spot, however. He had a son that he loved dearly. Eddie saw to it that his son had the best of everything; clothes, cars, and a good education.
Nothing was withheld. Price was no object. And despite his involvement
with organized crime, Eddie even tried to teach him right from wrong.
Yes, Eddie tried to teach his son to rise above his own sordid life. He wanted him to be a better man than he was. Yet, with all his wealth and influence there were two things that Eddie couldn't give his son. Two things that Eddie sacrificed to the Capone mob that he could not pass on to his beloved son: a good name and a good example.
One day, Easy Eddie reached a difficult decision. Offering his son
a good name was far more important than all the riches he could lavish on him. He had to rectify all the wrong that he had done. He would go to the authorities and tell them the truth about Scar-face Al Capone. He would try to clean up his tarnished name and offer his son some semblance of integrity. To do this he must testify against
The Mob, and he knew that the cost would be great. But more than anything, he wanted to be a good example to his son. He wanted to do his best to make restoration and hopefully have good name to leave his son. So, he testified. Within the year, Easy Eddie's life ended in a blaze of gunfire on a lonely Chicago street. He had given his son the greatest gift he had to offer at the greatest price he would
ever pay.
I know what you're thinking. What do these two stories have to do with one another?
Well, Easy Eddie's son was Butch O'Hare.
Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne, Ca, USA - Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 18:19:49 (ZULU)
Great story!! Sounds like something Paul Harvey would air.
danny mull <drm8194@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 18:26:53 (ZULU)
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 19:16:57 (ZULU)
Back when ratshot first came out, Dad thought it was the best thing since camouflage condoms. Well, Mom kept her house absolutely spotless and could not abide mice or roaches.
No fear mind you (she's Irish), she just abhorred them because they were "dirty".
So when we had a mouse in the house, Mom would get her a quilt and lay it on the floor in the living room. Mom would prone out on the quilt. She'd always have her cigarettes and a little glass of beer (classy) close by and of course, Dads Ruger Bearcat stoked with rat shot. Us kids were always behind her for saftey's sake.
She'd prone out and shoot the shit out of the mice when they would run out from behind the refrigerator and along the base boards in the kitchen. Chick was deadly. Never missed. She had her a good little score run up and the rat shot didn't hurt the cabinets none to speak of.
Well, one night, I was laying on the couch watching the Green Hornet.
Mom was proned out, stalking mice.
A commercial came on the TV and about that time, I looked up and a little mouse ran out from behind the icebox and stopped. He saw Mom, realized he was done for and ran back just as Mom dropped the hammer on his little ass. BLLLAAAAAAAAAM!!! I was always surprised at how loud a .22 was inside the house.
I heard Mom say "Well, shit". (Strong language for her)
... Seems Dad had gone rabbit hunting the night before and loaded the pistol with Long Rifles and he forgot to take 'em out for Mom.
Mom shot a hole in the bottom left hand corner of the refrigerator.
Knocked a big ole paint chip off like when you shoot a stop sign.
he heh.
Didn't hit no coils or nothing though. Worked just fine and we kept it a long time.
Ahhhh, the memories. Ain't life great?
Ya'll think I'm making this shit up don't you?
Watch your sixes my brothers.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 20:59:39 (ZULU)
I hope to meet some of you there.
Steve <stevesix@hotmail.com>
Tampa Bay, FL, USA - Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 21:46:06 (ZULU)
I'll be wearing an American Sniper Assoc. golf shirt or PAPD SWAT golf shirt, jeans, hiking boots, salt and pepper hair, scar under left eye.
... or just look for the crowd of chicks.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 22:17:45 (ZULU)
I got my Leica LRF 1200s from Alex, too. A good guy with great service. Hell, he didn't even want paid until after I got them and played with them for awhile!
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 23:13:53 (ZULU)
I just received a turret from Kenton Ind. for my Mk4 M1. Quality and looks are top notch. Mine is tuned for BH 175's at < 600 above sea level. I have not shot it as of yet at anything over 200yds. to check the tracking but when counting the clicks between the range markings my come ups are very close with theirs on my 26" PSS.....Rick
Kimbershooter <ricki@i-c.net>
Disputanta, Va., USA - Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 23:49:41 (ZULU)
Can you get hold of them thar American Sniper Association shirts for your Hawg buds? Would a donation help the cause?
Collector Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 01:01:33 (ZULU)
I'm ordering an Oehler 35P tomorrow and before I do,, does anyone know of a place I can beat the $345 price tag?
Why pay more if ya don't have to right ;))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 03:13:56 (ZULU)
Ordered the PVS4 today. Will be here Mon.
Anyone with previous experience with this sight feel free to drop me an email with hints or help, do's and don'ts or whatever.
Thanks, John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 04:31:19 (ZULU)
Tippy
Terry Hoover <Thooverusmcv68@aol.com>
Kansas City , Ks., - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 06:05:44 (ZULU)
So yer tellin us that you were born to this trade, eh? LMAO! I could almost smell the ND coming. Sounds somewhat akin to one of my own. Except I knew the gun was loaded with ball. There's still a hole through the rug and floorboards in a house in CA.
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
- Friday, February 7, 2003, at 06:08:03 (ZULU)
www.chuckjerpememorial.com
This is the medic we burried on Tuesday, and this is a legit account, every cent will go to his wife and daughter.
Thanks
Bob
Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne, Ca, USA - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 07:12:32 (ZULU)
out
G.W
Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Friday, February 7, 2003, at 08:35:54 (ZULU)
Nope dont open it. And being that I am not using my computer these days its probably from someone elses infected pooter.
Kent
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Friday, February 7, 2003, at 08:59:31 (ZULU)
I will miss my luminous posts though, if I have the conversion :-(
Mark D
Mark Dougan <dougie@mill.co.uk>
London, UK - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 12:11:16 (ZULU)
Been awhile - still lurkin and workin in the background.
Kim was at a meeting near DC that had several Marine Corps General officers present. Once of those present was Lt. General Paul K. Van Riper (retired).
Lt. Gen Van Riper presented Carlos Hathcock with his silver star award at Quantico. He was/is very supportive of the shooting/sniping community. When he was the CG of MCCDC at Quantico - he would call the base newspaper to correct items such as putting the rifle team scores in the same section as 'sports'. "Shooting is a skill not a sport. It should not be in the same category as the bowling scores" he would say.
Folks - be encouraged - he's one more heavy hitter out there on our side. Kim spent a few minutes with him chatting about riflery and usn's out here.
Take care folks,
Semper Fi
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <ken@hunters.org>
8inches deep, in snowy, northern va - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 12:13:21 (ZULU)
You talkin' 'bout a PAC4, laser aiming sight? If so, pretty good sight if you have a good zero and a decet set of goggles. You'll be able to hip shoot man sized out to about 200M or better. We could eaily engage E types at 300M in pitch black night.
Not that you'll have to worry about it,, but it's just like a fashlight to those looking for you..... Shoot at the tiny blinking light.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 12:42:41 (ZULU)
It's a night vision scope. Not sure of the manufacturer. I don't think it has anything that "blinks" though. I'll damn sure find out, won't I? :)))
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 12:53:00 (ZULU)
Then to top it off my Yarborough knife arrived #0057. Great workmanship and what an edge. If anyone is interested the link is below.
http://www.chrisreeve.com/gberet.html
TonyY <ayackowski@pershing.com>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 13:01:40 (ZULU)
Then you must be talking about the older PVS4 rifle scope. Does it have about a 80mm obj? The old ones had dots in the reticle that denoted bullet drop out to 300.
The ones I used were pretty crude (Gen 1), but it was better than nothing. I here some of the new ones are pretty good, but I remember the ones we carried as being pretty heavy and we had a hard time holding Zero, but they were just screwed onto the carry handle of the A2's. Again YMMV, alots changed in 13 years.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Friday, February 7, 2003, at 13:21:08 (ZULU)
Most of the NV I've had works just fair. There are some tricks that help but a bright moon is the best thing you have and it needs to be behind if your still hunting airport dogs.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Friday, February 7, 2003, at 13:30:13 (ZULU)
Mark Kenton made up a turret for my 3.5x10 LR M3 over a year ago(maybe 2]. iT'S on my LTR. Turret is etched; 308, 168 Fed Match, 2472fps, 70 degrees, 1000ft, 28.7 BP..It is dead nuts on out to about 800. I like it because I don't have to consult a comeups table. Just get the range,dial, and launch.
Talked to Mark yesterday and he's sending a certificate for a set of custom turrets as a prize for ASC#2.. should make someone very happy.
Georges at noon every day at SHOT, right????????
outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Dreaming of spring in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 14:35:18 (ZULU)
Consider it done in Texas.
Mk4, EMT-P
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 15:15:42 (ZULU)
Tont Y, man thats one great looking knife. Hope I sell a bunch of slings this year so I can order one, or maybe my lady will get me one for my birthday. Its in October and the waiting list is probably that long anyway.
Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 15:54:23 (ZULU)
UHAAAAH.
http://vampirebat.com/obeythefist/AC130_GunshipMed.wmv
Scott <powers10@comcast.net>
- Friday, February 7, 2003, at 16:12:30 (ZULU)
New six-part series starts Thursday, Feb.27 on ABC stations. Called "Profiles From the Front Line", it follows SF operators in action in Afganistan. Full documentary, no narration. Made by a senior producer of the "Cops" show.
I'm in no way endorsing it, 'cause I haven't seen it, but thought y'all might be interested!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 16:35:55 (ZULU)
You know, it was actually working until she informed me two days ago that my freakin in-laws are coming in town and she said they could stay with us. Yes, the same Valentines weekend she through the fit over. Hell, now I'd rather be on the front line over Valentines (just kidding, no disrespect intended). Oh it was a good thing I didn't have a club in my hand when she told me. My in-laws---what a whip!!!
She was definitely in the dog house until she agreed I could by a suppressor I've been wanting for a while now. But once I start hearing all the great reports about how good a time you all had, I'm going to have to deal with this all over again. I need some grace :)
Alan,
Thanks for the heads up on the TV show. Something worth watching would be nice for a change...
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 17:50:28 (ZULU)
Bro, if it wasn't for that greasy little gash, they'd all be just like the Taliban .... on the run or hiding in a cave.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Friday, February 7, 2003, at 18:39:49 (ZULU)
Just had to chime in on that one Sain, I'm laughing my ass off .
My buddy says about the same thing: If they didn't have that P***y, there'd be a bounty on them! "
drmarc <drmarc@se-tel.com>
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 18:54:12 (ZULU)
--
BREAKING NEWS: National Terror Alert Raised to "High Risk"
The nation is now on a higher alert for terrorism. The Bush Administration has bumped up the threat level from yellow to orange, the second-highest level in the color-coded system. Attorney General John Ashcroft says intelligence shows an "increased likelihood" that al-Qaida will try to attack Americans to coincide with the Hajj, the annual Muslim pilgrimage that begins this weekend.
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 18:56:34 (ZULU)
<<Bro, if it wasn't for that greasy little gash, they'd all be just like the Taliban .... on the run or hiding in a cave.>>
Man you cease to amaze me. That's one of your best and that's saying something. You need to write a book and not just about snipers. ROTFLMAO!!!
Well, I'm off to hunt piggies and needless to say I didn't get any grief over this one, Nor was I about to take any. Just don't tell my wife I said that...
It's amazing what a 300 RUM 180gr Scirocco does to a pig. It's a sight I never get tired of.
MK4,
Thanks for the heads up.
I pray the weekend is a safe one for all. And that our intelligence and law enforcement people have great wisdom, insight and discernment. And of course great aim.
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 19:52:19 (ZULU)
Steve ~ Hockeyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
Snowing again!, Any one want to help me terminate Punxatawney Phil?, Damn rodent saw his shadow again! - six more weeks of this whit stuff! - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 21:51:27 (ZULU)
Rob Opp
Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 22:09:11 (ZULU)
All this talk of the shot show, they should do that like the olympics, and have it in a different country each time, i might then stand a chance of attending without having to bloody well fly.
Well us Euro hawgs are looking forward to the IWA ( europes sort of shot show) JR is goin' so is Jon B and me too, hope some of the cloggies can make it and i have to chase up a couple of others to see if we can get a bit of a gathering.
having a guys weekend with my boy,(wife n daughter are away and dealing with over 5 ft deep snow, not common here) we did, cinema yesterday, swimming today and pigeon shooting tommorow, and on sunday its a mates birthday, a couple of big names in the European shooting scene are attending, no doubt it will be a hell of a drinking session, and i'm sure i'll be the only one who thinks we should kick saddams butt.I've got all the polish jokes i can remember and i can speak loudly, I'm thirsty so i guess I'm ready.
The German population, left or right, seem to be genuinely against moveing on Iraq, the pascifistic socialists say Mr Bush is after the oil, the right wing conservatives say its all to protect the Jews, I've never known these lot agree on anything yet, but they seem to agree on not going in.
I destroyed the 22 revolver i was about to buy, the guy wouldn't sell, wanted to keep it for sentimental value, and had to have it de- activated to make room on his permit for another, so i had to drill 6 caliber sized holes in the barrel, drill and pin the chambers and cut the firing pin(regulations) it broke my hear to do it, it was such a great little gun,damn. I just said to my dog, where's the pigeons, she immediately looked straight up, should be fun tommorow.
Pete.L
P.S., i just found a use for a republican guard steel helmet, i opened a bottle of Veltins beer with it !!!
Peter Lincoln <anke_pete@t-online.de>
D - Friday, February 7, 2003, at 22:36:04 (ZULU)
On the Oehler 35P.....Natchez also sells them, so you could check the price at www.natchezss.com but,I bought direct from Oehler. Great company.
Ratz? Reminds me of a time over 30 years ago when I moved into an old farm house because it was cheap. This was before I got married, and money was spent on guns and hot cars....not rent. I came in from the cold in November to put my gloves on the heating duct in my bedroom and YIKES! A giant rat was sitting there, warming his buns.
What to do? I looked around, but my guns were out in the Jeep Cherokee. I grabbed a buck hunting knife and stabbed downwards....the rat screamed....his jaws were spread with his little fangs just itching to lacerate my fingers. Well, I had him pinned to the floor with the knife blade through his side, but no way to finish him. I yanked out the knife, and he left a blood trail leading to the underside of my bed.
Couldn't let him escape.....who knows.....he might want the ratz revenge and attack at night. I closed the door and sprinted for the jeep....got ahold of my Winchester 9422 and laid a bedside lamp on the floor so I could see him. His beady eyes were glowing, when the .22 slug took him. I fired a couple more times, and it turned out to be an unofficial trophy rat. Without the tail, it measured 8 inches long. I thought to myself, "Sheesh! I should've used the .44 magnum!" Ya know, he might've made Boone and Crockett!
Jerry S. <jtmstor@rrv.net>
Red River Country, MN, USA - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 01:04:50 (ZULU)
thanks,, I ordered factory direct today.
Nice, talking with an actual person. ;))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 03:58:36 (ZULU)
Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion ... so true.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 04:06:54 (ZULU)
The comments about "ratz" brings back memories. Spent long hours in the barn, prone, shooting rats and mice with my Sheridan pellet rifle. Great fun then and now. Although cat gives me the evil eye for "muscling in" on his territory.
MRI is done on the knee. Will know more early this week when I see the orthopod.
Gotta prep for duty...more later.
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 04:17:11 (ZULU)
George & Marty's booth at 12:00 daily.......roger that.
Ref: Gen II Conversion
I've got the Gen II reticle in my new 6.5X-20X LR. I have not shot the rifle with this scope attached yet so I cannot comment about performance. Measuring targets should be a little easier with the 20X Gen II combination. Now that I've got a really high speed rig I'd better shoot well because I won't have any excuses anymore.
Ref: AN/PVS-4
John, I'm looking forward to learning about the performance of your new NVD. If it works ok I might have to get one for myself.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 05:28:58 (ZULU)
you have Mail,
BearMan
BearMan <Chad@webescape.com>
Indy, Indiana, U.S.A. - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 06:48:52 (ZULU)
See you guys at the Shot Show.
Rod
Rod Hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 12:20:02 (ZULU)
Makes me want to slap myself in the forehead! Do these folks not know how stoopid these threat messages are?
Sometimes I wonder, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 14:49:36 (ZULU)
If you want a good rule to live by, use the one that they tell you in the middle of the boxing ring, before the fight. Protect yourself at all times.
It is raining and sleeting, I am going out and feed the animals, maybe I will cool off.
John <one338winmag@hotmail.com>
Liberty, TX, - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 16:16:11 (ZULU)
http://www.westernhunter.com/Pages/Vol04Issue08/gunfinish.html
Anybody here tried this?
This brings to mind a thought for a new color to add to the ridiculous color coded warning B.S.........."Camouflage"......"We can't see them but we know they are out there so y'all need to be careful"..........;))
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
LakeCormorant, MS, - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 17:33:35 (ZULU)
JAMES J. MARLOWE, II, ESQ. <L42ENF71@AOL.COM>
DOWNINGTOWN, PA, UNITED STATES - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 18:09:18 (ZULU)
Damn good point. So what if we go to HOT PINK!! What does it mean and what the hell are you supposed to do about it!
1. Go buy a gun to protect yourself?....... Not PC. Ownership of guns put you in the same class as terrorists according to the liberal, leftist, communist elite (who have their own, BTW)
2. Go dive in your bunker until you hear the all clear? ...Also not PC, plus having a bunker means you're paranoid and to be watched.
3. Not go to work? .....You'll be fired?? Maybe, maybe not. No excuses unless its your business being bombed.
4. Hoard some food from the grocery store?....Also not PC. BTW, the governments bunker is lavishly furnished.
5. Surrender?
Yes, I know this sounds facetious but really, why go to the trouble of bringing all of this to our attention w/o giving some idea of how to deal with it. (As if the average Rosterferians didn't already but I'm talking about the average clueless American that has no idea how to deal with any kind of emergency)
They want to warn you BUT don't want you to panic... BUT the government doesn't want to be accused of being Y2K type alarmists BUT want you to be prepared.
My head hurts.
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 18:38:23 (ZULU)
Rod, I feel your pain;-) . Can't use more than 15x-16x around these parts for about eight months a year - high temp and lots of sun.
That's where Kevin should have an advantage with his Gen2 Mil-Dot reticle, if I understand it correctly. He should be able to dial the power down to minimize mirage and still take advantage of the standard Mil-Dot ranging capabilities (at any power setting). I don't have a Gen2 yet, but at least two conversions are on the table for this summer. All it's gonna take is the ability to pay for 'em and still indulge in all the other shooting stuff that I normally need!
Iraq thoughts,
We all know that France and Germany are doing their best to sabotage our efforts in the Security Council on enforcing the Iraq arms resolution. Could it be that they both are afraid of exposing their complicity in building and selling Iraq missle guidance systems and NBC installations? Could it also be that Iraq is giving them preferential treatment (low prices and increased supply) in the oil market in exchange for them throwing a monkey wrench in our plans?
I can think of at least a few non-violent ways to reward them for their treachery. "Paybacks are a motherf***er."
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 19:31:31 (ZULU)
They have began to arrest those who are hoarding Columbia parts. ThGov has enacted an amnesty period and have had over 100 pieces turned in. Their next step is visiting the local flea markets. Anything to make a buck these days.
With this new elevated security, thgey won't let the Pizza guys on base any more. How's a guy supposed to eat when on Squadron Duty Officer? But you have to agree, the color code security levels do make the pretentious news updates look more important
Well, it's off to the range to spit some amo out of my little .44/40.
Take care hawgs
Kush out
**add on** I know that 9/11 has been beat to death, but if you know ant sniveling peaceniks who oppose our war against terrorism and the regimes that support them adn have forgotten why we are over there, click on my name. Takes a while to load, but is well worth the wait
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 20:51:06 (ZULU)
Went to a family disturbance. BG charged him and tried to take his gun. Cop had a Safariland Level III holster. Saved him. BG was able to get one finger on the trigger. Gun discharged but did not cycle as it was still in the holster.
Hit my boys change and car alarm. Went in and out his upper thigh muscle. No bone damage or anything. Kid was lucky. Didn't even know he had been shot 'til a SWAT Sergeant ripped his pants open and showed him. Had the guy handcuffed when the troops showed up.
BG was on "fry". For you older readers, that is marijuana laced with cocaine and dipped in formaldahyde.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 21:17:32 (ZULU)
Who comes up with these crazy chemical combos? The users have to be crazy to smoke something with formaldehyde in it. Isn't that used for embalming fluid?
Rob Opp,
What do you think of the Ken Farrell rings and bases? I ordered some last week and they arrived the following day. They sure look hell for strong.
Doc
Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 21:35:18 (ZULU)
Hope your guy is back quickly.
He showed amazing restraint. Must be hard not to put one through the back of the guys head after some shit like that.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 22:03:07 (ZULU)
The Farrell rings and base look strong as hell, haven't put them on yet, don't want to ruin the zero until I have enough range time to sight in properly, off work next weekend so I plan on doing it then.
Brian,
Hope your guy heals up fast. Ain't it amazing what some people will put in their bodies just to get high for awhile?
Take care!
Rob Opp
Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 22:25:19 (ZULU)
Hope for a quick heal on your man. He's a lucky dude. In '94-'95 we had a platoon going thru the SOTG shooting package on Camp Pendleton. One of the senior guys finished his back-up pistol drill, holstered his .45 in his drop leg holster, and BANG! Gun goes off. Shattered his knee, and he med down for a strech. Always be vigilant
Kush out
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 23:04:56 (ZULU)
Folks if you didn't take the time to download the page Kush pointed us to DO IT, DO IT NOW, DON'T WAIT!! This is worth the long download!!
Thanks Kush!!!
Forward this to everyone you know...but WARN THEM of the long download.
Sarge
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 00:54:04 (ZULU)
Click on the 9 11 tribute Kush referred to. It'll bring tears to your eyes and make your blood boil, again.
As to what to do about the condition orange alert...We all know the govt. can't, in all probability, stop a determined terrorist attack. The feds can't even follow up on the credible leads they get every day, much less zero in on specific threats. It will come to pass that the terr's will strike in America again. I count myself lucky to live in an area that is far from target rich. I hope those of you who live in urban America have a plan. Sooner or later you will unfortunately need one, I believe.
In talking with a LE buddy of mine who works in the chemical valley of the Ohio river, the subject of plant security came up. They make some nasty stuff there and blasting it into aerosol form would be a horrific deal..My bud' said he's changed the contents of his cruiser considerably since 9 11, partially to deal with a threat, but also to insure he could get home. The getting home part is worth thinking about depending on where you live and work.
So much for good cheer, huh??
See ya'll at SHOT!
outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Safely ensconced in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 00:54:45 (ZULU)
P.S., have some tissues handy
Yeah, on this whole "alert" thing. I feel that if things are allowed to get out of hand, I see rights of the common man being trampled on in order to Keep us all "safe". A couple of weeks ago, someone forwarded some info on the TSA (the c%#ksuckers that hassle you at the airport) possibly will have the power to pull a persons pilot license if they are deemed a "threat" or a "security risk" based on so-called secret evidence. and the only appeal is to the TSA. No un-biased third party. So much for the constitutional due process we all should enjoy.
But the point to be made, which was brought out in an article by the AOPA, was what good would be suspending someone's license who is deemed a threat? This goes beyond just aviation. If someone wants to do ill, not having a silly piece of paper won;t stop them. I guarantee, none of the maggots that brought our birds down had a pilots license. All they had was a few lessons. If someone is a threat, pick their asses up, but make sure the intel is good. No reapeats of the McCarthy era back in the 50's
The .44/40 is shootin well, and took the old 6" model 29-2 and put a few rounds thru it as well. Felt just like Dirty Harry
Kush out
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 01:56:49 (ZULU)
Thank you very much sir.
Keep the blue side up.
Doc
Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 02:05:36 (ZULU)
Long time (2.5yr)lurker, first-time poster. Now that I've posted do I get to share the African wealth you all seem to be part of :-)
Thought you may want to see this. Courtesy of Tom Diaz & co.
http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/3638894.html
Group says large sniper rifles are a threat to aircraft(.50 cals).
Edited for spelling.
scott kangas <scottkangas100@hotmail.com>
Davenport, Iowa, USA - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 02:18:04 (ZULU)
Do you guys shoot your cold bore shots from a cleaned, straight from the safe, barrel or do you run a patch down the tube to remove storage rust preventives first? In other words, do you have time to get the storage oils out of the tube before you set up on a deployment? I have been running an alcohol patch down the tube before I start shooting to get the oils out. I think that is not a good practice to determine true cold bore. If the aliens invade, I might not have time to run a patch through before the little boogers start over running la casa.
When shooting groups, do most of you use 3 or 5 shots for a group? I have been using 3 (cause I am an ammo tightwad) but I may not be getting a good sampling.
For you across the course shooters, are you using a 200 or 300 yard zero?
How much importance are you guys placing on an accurate 'call' shot? I've been doing it for years but I have been wandering here lately about it's true value.
Bored again, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 02:28:41 (ZULU)
Had a great pig hunt. Shot the prettiest pig I've ever seen. I know I know pretty and pig should not be in the same sentence. But this boar, approx. 250lbs, was a blonde/bronze highlighted color. Truly a great looking animal. Took some pics and I hope they turn out well.
The shot was right at 300 yards. I felt confident, but was amazed how quickly I forgot proper technique. Trigger control, proper check weld, follow through---what's that??? Man after all the time I've spent on the range this year, and all I could think about was "Oh my God what a beautiful pig, the crosshairs are close---BOOM!" Needless to say I gut shot him, but he didn't go far.
It takes a lot more training than I've had privy to, to overcome sudden adrenaline. I did much better on the second pig, but it's the first one that count's. More range time is ordered.
Brian,
Hope your man heals up quickly and completely. Tell him we are all pulling for him.
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 02:33:46 (ZULU)
Well, we had to train with what they had. So we are on the range working condition 1 presentations with experimental MEUSOC .45's (shows my age huh?). The RTE was still farting around with sear/trigger/hammer configurations.
One of my shooters goes for his blaster, a strap came loose, he grips the strap along with the pistol, the pistol wont come out of the rig so he tightens his grip and yanks. Well when he tightened his grip his thumb knocked off the safety and his trigger finger went on the trigger....
Welllllll the round goes off through the holster, through his thigh, missing his knee cap by a few inches. This pistol is now airborne, I'm watching it fly into the air wondering if the grip safety is gonna do its job when it impacts the ground, and the student is hopping around yelling, "I'm a dumb mother fucker, I just shot myself!" The pistol lands with a thud and a wimper (no bang) and the student sits down and we look at a neatly cauterised bullet hole. The rig absorbed most of the muzzle blast.
He is back on the range the next day on crutches looking real sheepish and the MEUSOC .45 passed the 8 foot drop test.
SOOOO. Lesson's learned.
1. Use holsters that COVER the trigger guard area and obey the "Keep the trigger finger straight and off the trigger until ready to fire" rule.
2. .45's need to have FULL use of the grip safety and dont fart around with the trigger/sear too much on a combat gun.
We now return you to your regulary scheduled program.
Gooch out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 03:08:06 (ZULU)
Hope your bud's leg heals up quick Brian.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 03:49:48 (ZULU)
Thank you.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 12:40:52 (ZULU)
On "calling" your shots, I alawys liked the following quote from from a firearms training manual.
"Another aspect of follow through is the ability to call the shot. The shooter concentrates on trying to see the sight picture through recoil. At the monent of firing the shooter will have a mental image of where the sights were the instant the rifle fired. He must conciously recall this image or it is quickly lost. By recalling the image of the sight picture the shooter can " call" where the shot struck. If the rifle is sighted in and the shooter controled the trigger, the shot will strike where it is "called". If the shooter is consisently " on call" then the rifle is sightrd in and the shooters techniques are sound. If the techniques are sound but the shooter is "off call"( hitting other than where the shot is called), then the sights are off. If the shooter is unable to "call" the shot, then the shooter's techniques are not sound and additional instruction and practice are necessary"
That quote always put the importance of shot calling in perspective for me.
Rod
Rod Hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 13:48:57 (ZULU)
I've spent a lot of time working on my CBS. My technique is to clean the barrel thoroughly then push an IPA soaked patch down the bore twice. I then follow up with three clean dry patches. Lastly I place a black target paster over the bore. The paster covers up the exposed stainless steel at the muzzle and keeps anything from contaminating the bore during storage or transport. My M40A1 will consistently place the CBS within 1/2" of the POA when I use this process. I shoot through the paster on the CBS. I use the CBS portion of my T.R.G.T. data book to record my Cold Bore Deviation. When I was layed up last summer I spent a couple of days at the range shooting a CBS then cleaning waiting and shooting another CBS. It was great therapy.
Ref: SHOT Show
T-four days and counting.......
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 13:58:37 (ZULU)
I recently acquired a Winchester Model 67, .22 caliber single shot rifle. I'd like to know more about it but there is nothing to be found on the web. It appears to be a first year of production model. It has the thin stock with the finger grooves. Beyond knowing it was made in 1934 I don't know JACK about the 67 series. Can anyone give me a little history lesson on this thing? I hope to pass it down to my son, and he his. Thanks.
email me me at powers10@comcast.net
Scott <powers10@comcast.net>
- Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 15:21:02 (ZULU)
idiot smokes formaldehyde, causing permenant brain damage (yep, embalming fluid is toxic...huge surprise)... brain damage causes violence, made worse by the upper, coke, and the hallucinegenic THC...
Idiot attacks a cop and causes injury...bad guy goes to jail..
-Cop's family suffers.
-Cop suffers.
-Public foot the bill for cop's healthcare.
-Public foots the bill for jail.
-Bad guy gets out and continues using brain killing concoction until unable to care for himself, then public assumes responsibility for his sorry ass and pays for nursing home for next 40 years of his life.
-Drug distributer gets money for terror somewhere in the world. Maybe more of my brothers die in the line....
Why is it considered humane to let this moron continue consuming oxygen? Imagine all the harm that could have been prevented if only the formaldehyde dose had been higher....
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 15:36:19 (ZULU)
Was another chilly/chile day at the farmer range yesterday, 15 degrees. West by southwest winds, about 15-20 mph. Direction of shots due south. At dawn, the wife gets up & says, "Take me with you. I want to shoot." :) Hmmm. I thinks, this could be a good thing !!
We get out & set up targets(face photos of various felons) & fix to 'bust some caps'. CBS zero setting for 100, adjust right 1 moa for the wind, Bang, hostage taker dead nuts through the sunglasses. OK, we're on. Next shot takes out Charles Manson, ding.. right between the eyes at the eyebrow line. "OK Babe, your up", get her in position, what do see?, 'reticle in focus, etc. slow squeeze...Bang!" Dang!! shot within 1/4" of mine. I'm thinking, no wonder she likes guns.
Ok, on to 200, check the dope, 2 more'clicks' for wind, a few more for elevation. Cold hasn't shown much additional concern at this 'close' distance on this stick(PSS). Another felon name of Stein or something. 3 round group, one in his tear duct, one just right of that on the nose, one pulled a bit, just at bottom of nose. Ok, it'll do. "OK Babe, you're up." 2 of her 3 are 1/2" above mine with one another inch higher in the forehead. Damn, that'll do too. She says. "I like this. This is fun!"
OK, on to 300. Add a little more windage & elev. Get to looking at the 'charts' and figuring moa, # of 'clicks' adjustment, etc. John MuHammad this time, he goes down with 3 to the face. about 1/2 moa too much windage. All three in the cheek. Just to verify(maybe) I leave it alone & gets my new assitant Ballistician to shoot. She puts her 3 in to the cheek, eye & 1 just right off paper. Ok. I'm feeling pretty proud of my gal. She's a keeper, even if it's been 15 years already.
"OK Babe, lets do 400." We sit & do the math, WAG method involved. Set the dope. Wind still kicking. I feel pretty good about puttin all 3 on the child molesters face, left cheek & nose. Coulda used another 1/4 moa right. LB(Little Ballistician[new nickname]) shoots, again putting all 3 on the felons face. Dang Howdy, This gal is getting me all excited. Well, other than..... Puts one between the eyes, one in the lips & one in the forehead. Would like to adjust focus a bit, she says. :) I'm smilin.
On to 500. Dope estimated & set. I please the krap outta meself with a nice little inch & 3/4 group. LB is not able to getem on paper. It has been a few of hours, cold, runnin down & doing verifications & such. So I set up for 600 & get a sad surprise. All of a sudden I can't keep em with a foot of each other. Amazing. Never shot 600 before, but 'What the F**k." Hmmm. All I'm getting is errant body shots, high, low & wide. Going to have to work on this one. Oh well, Been a damn nice - cold - day with the wife. She's all excited about it, so I starts tellin her about these neat GA Precision Rifles.....
Out & smilin,
Deputy Doug
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K Town, WI, US of Damn Proud A - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 15:37:17 (ZULU)
You are indeed a lucky man. If she decides to look for greener pastures...................LOLLOL!
Medicjim,
Wholeheartedly agree. Last year I had to decon a suicide attempter. Deuched himself with a couple gallons of gas and they got to him before he struck the lighter. EMS and the constabulary brought him to the hospital for decon. He was neked, cuffed, shackled for be combative, and was having some really nice chemical burns. First thing I did was ask the coppers "why did you stop him". Secondly, I whispered in the gasolinized guy's ear that I was the only one in the room that could stop him from burning up and if he started fighting me, I would let his pecker burn up and fall off in the floor (yep, he was really getting some chemical burning by then). He jumped up on the decon stretcher and didn't say a word or move a muscle unless I told him to. Cops, EMS and nurses were amazed.
Kevin,
I like your method.
Rod,
I wish I could shoot as much as I would like to. Funds and time are limiting factors. Your quote on calling shots puts it into perspective and I will rethink it's value.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 17:24:08 (ZULU)
str8shot <mshockley@hotmail.com>
South central, MI, USA - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 17:31:18 (ZULU)
I have to go with Kevin on putting them up dry! I'm fortunate to live in a place with low humidity year round, although the temperatures will vary from -10F to +110F through the year. I'll run a patch soaked with Gunk-Out or lighter fluid through the bore after I'm done with the cleaning solvent(s). Then dry patch it, then a single patch soaked with alcohol, then dry patch it again and put it up. When I return to the range my good barrels are always holding in the same group for the first as well as the fifth shot of the day.
The rifles that I have for hunting only may be used for just a week or two in a year, so I use a light coat of G96 oil in their bores for storage. The collectors rifles get a treatment of Break-Free "Collector" inside and out, 'cause it might be years between firing some of them.
Been using these methods for a few years and so far they work for me. I really appreciate the fact that with dry-bore storage I don't need to worry about "fouling shots" or "sighters". These ARE tactical rifles, after all!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 17:46:27 (ZULU)
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 22:36:07 (ZULU)
Kimbershooter <ricki@i-c.net>
Disputanta, Va., USA - Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 23:25:04 (ZULU)
http://www.drudgereport.com/mad.htm
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Monday, February 10, 2003, at 00:07:39 (ZULU)
You're looking at a win/win situation.
I guess it's going to boil down to whether or not you want an outstanding illuminuated reticle or an outstanding 1st focal plane reticle.
I find the NXS heavy, but it has awesome glass and seems to be pretty durable. Lightforce USA's customer service was excellent as well.
I haven't (and neither has anyone else) used a new Leupold M1 variable. They seem like they'll be the cats ass with the Gen II reticle, and the upgraded errector return springs.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Monday, February 10, 2003, at 00:29:47 (ZULU)
Ref Drudge Report; at least the photo of the primadona will make for a good semi profile target.
Thanks
out
Deputy Doug
Doug Bourdo <Diver1@acronet.net>
K Town, WI, US of Proud A - Monday, February 10, 2003, at 00:41:45 (ZULU)
I just received 5 new emails, all with virus'. The last was from kmussack, subject 7 April 2002 or some such.
I have Norton's Internet 2003, so no problem.
Watch out!
Larry
Larry J. Porter <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USofA - Monday, February 10, 2003, at 03:27:34 (ZULU)
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Monday, February 10, 2003, at 04:34:39 (ZULU)
<Hawgs...Any of you have The leupold Wind River spotting scope?>
I seem to recall 'lito saying a few months back he had tested the Wind River and it was a good buy. Search the archives. Also see Sarge & Eyeman's tests & comparisions in the "In Review" section.
Don
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
Huntsville, AL, U.S. of A. - Monday, February 10, 2003, at 06:16:55 (ZULU)
http://www.drudgereport.com/mad.htm
Mk4<<<<
Why does anybody put any credence in anything Madonna or any other "celebrity" has to say about our foreign policy and/or desire to smack Saddam's ass all over the sandbox?
Unfortunately, there will be many who take these psuedo-intellects' whinning and blabbering as gospel truth.
Fortunately, they are protected by the 1st Amendment just like the rest of us but there are times when they push the envelope of reasonableness.
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Monday, February 10, 2003, at 14:16:06 (ZULU)
PETA steps to the forefront of stupidity again.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0203/peta_ass.html
jc
jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Monday, February 10, 2003, at 15:47:07 (ZULU)
Chris asked if anyone has use the Luppie M1 LR? I have two...one on my .223 PSS and the other on my 6.5 X .284.
The M1 is rugged, has positive/precise click adjustments, and damn good optics. Believe Leupold has a winner here.
I do like the MK IV, but believe the M1 may be a better all around scope.
Knee is giving me fits, guys. Took another fall yesterday (why can't I do it ON duty). Orthopedic Surgeon sees me the 13th at 0900...hopefully we'll have a path forward.
Meanwhile, I have about 2 months of trial service left and hope this doesn't put me at risk. My evals have been sterling and the senior staff are trying to get me to play on "their" teams. Love it...
Undude...how are you fairing. You did A LOT more damage than I did...
Dare I say it...I'm starting to feel older...:-(
State Sniper Competition this last weekend. Two of my compadres took 1st place and 10th shooting my ammo in stock Remington PSS's...makes me kinda proud. Sooner or later I'll get in there...
All for now,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Monday, February 10, 2003, at 18:50:47 (ZULU)
I was refering to the new M1's,, in 4x14, 6x20 and 8.5x25. All 50mm Obj's. Dick Thomas of Premier did a breakdown of the new features as compared to the standard long range scopes. They'll resemble the 3.5x10x40 you have, but they'll also sport upgraded return springs and a 2.5" shade;))
I'm looking to get a 8.5x25x50 for new fagmag, Kilr Beez.(three cheers for cult leaders Wes and Pat)
Sucks to hear about the knee. Hope it takes a "turn" for the better ASAP.
Starting to load test for Kilr Beez this weekend (hopefully). Starting with 50.5gr H4831, 48gr H4350 and 49.5gr RL22. It's short throated so all my loads are .020 off the lands, and I'm trying 210M's again, but have thrown some 9 1/2M 's in to get a read on how magnum primers will work.
Will initailly be working through some loads with Gumby, and will try and get a track test in to see what has changed with the Nightforce post return.
Something I noticed while re-sizing and priming the weekend,, the chrome coating on the Fed's and the CCI's make the primer fit much tighter. I've heard of it before, but never noticed it until now. Looks like I'll be tryting some 215M's to see if I can keep the low SD's AND have a tight fitting pocket.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Monday, February 10, 2003, at 19:02:06 (ZULU)
Does that mean "Pearl-Handled"? ;-)
Sounds like a pretty good sighting system - and you got lucky with ammo that matches the scope.
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
- Monday, February 10, 2003, at 19:47:37 (ZULU)
Let us know how you get on with the primers. I tried the Fed 215M with RL25 and H4831SC with Fed GM and Winchester brass for the 300WM. Velocity spread was attrocious with all combos. I've loaded up some test rounds with Fed 210M primers; just need the rain and wind to stop so I can try em'.
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Monday, February 10, 2003, at 20:51:36 (ZULU)
My current load of H4831SC in a Lapua case with Rem 9 1/2M primers gives me a SD of 6fps. (6.5x284 of course)
The problem I'm having is the primers crater badly. And not a normal crater. They splash. The damn things don't flatten, or back out, but splash metal up into jagged spikes. I hope to have this solved by going with a new firing pin spring,, but I'm a believer in the magnum primers with H4831SC.
I also pierced three primers this season. If the spring replacemnt doesn't improve the primer performnace, and 215's don't work,, I'm going to stick with Rem 9 1/2M's.. I'll live with the occasional pierce or splash to keep the SD's where they are.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Monday, February 10, 2003, at 21:01:13 (ZULU)
Just loaded some of the amax's in 6mm 105gr. using a rcbs comp. die set. However, the die caused a crease where the bullet came into contact with the seater...this was brand new winchester brass. Has anyone had this happen using these bullets? Was thinking it might be because of the thin jacket or could it be because the brass is somewhat hard yet and didnt have much give in to let it seat? I dunno if that last reason is possible but was just wondering...Also anyone looking to sell a 12/40 gold ring spotter? or where i'd find the best price on one?
.
Thanks for any help....marc
Marc <onesonek@Hotmail.com>
- Monday, February 10, 2003, at 22:17:22 (ZULU)
As you well know there are several different possibilities that could cause your primer problem. Have you checked the tip of the firing pin? Could the firing pin hole in the boltface be oversize? Just a band-aid - have you tried the CCI Mil-spec M34 primer? Extra thick cup for full and semi auto application. I've no experience with them (CCI) as I pretty much use Fed. and Win.
Marc,
I've had the same problem with a different Hornady bullet in a different caliber. Using a Wilson chamber type bullet seating die with a Sinclair arbor press I put the rings on the Hornady .223 75gr HPBT Match bullets. With that setup, I don't think that it could be from rough handling. Switching to any of the SMK's eliminates the problem. I guess it must be thin jackets on the Hornadys. Anybody else?
Guy's,
I had a nightmare last night. My dream was that Russia, France, and Germany pushed the UN Security Council into sending "peacekeepers" into Iraq as a "blue shield" to foil any US and UK attack on Saddam! I know that I was only dreaming, now tell me why I'm crazy.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Monday, February 10, 2003, at 22:56:19 (ZULU)
There's a distinct possibility that they're just a touch too hot for 100+ degree days. I haven't noticed an issue with this load below 70F. The problem never surfaced with chrome plated primers, but the SD's were never this good either. Still, a thicker cup would be most welcome. Thanks for the tip on the Milspec CCI's.
There's a pic of the new McMillan A5 prototypes on Snipers hide. It looks like it's a winner to me, and it can be had in the high 2 lbs range with no frills. Thinkin' 20" fluted run and gun ;))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Monday, February 10, 2003, at 23:17:35 (ZULU)
Chris and all.
The SD's on my 6.5 X .284 pet load are not as good as I like, but the damn thing shoots, so I quite worrying about it. I use the Federal 210 M and have no cratering. Just a hint of flatness.
Are you holding your mouth right during the seating process?
Am considering building another 6.5 X .284 so I don't shoot out my Chandler Gun. Will have to see what I can land in the way of another Remmie long action.
Will check out the A5 stock on Snipers Hide. The A4 was a bit wild for me, but haven't had a chance to shoot one...will reserve judgement. Being an old fart I don't change platforms easily, but stick with the norm and what works for me.
Rifle Shooter Mag has a good article on the .284 Winchester and Wildcats derived there of...a good read.
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 03:07:08 (ZULU)
I doubt if the story is true but the moral of the story makes it woth posting:
The Ultimate Response to a to Dear John Letter (You guys should
really like this one. Also, mother's of sons are gonna love it, too.
An Army ranger was deployed to Afghanistan. While he was there he received a letter from his girlfriend. In the letter she explained that she had slept with two guys while he had been gone, she wanted to break up and she wants pictures of herself back.
The Ranger was heartbroken. So the Ranger does what any squared-away Ranger would do. He went around to his buddies and collected all the unwanted photos of women he could find. He then mailed about 25 pictures to his girlfriend with the following note: "I'm sorry, I can't remember which one you are, but please take the one that belongs to you and send the rest back. Thanks."
Score one for men!
Robert H <medicboy@excite.com>
NE, Ca, USA - Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 03:16:51 (ZULU)
e mail I haven't sent any E mail out in two weeks to any Hawgs. Virus check of my computer says I'm clean Will advise on the Roster before i send any emails This virus clown needs his chain jerked.
Wish we had the Tech to have all this sh*t from the poor nephew of the African King and the Virus Jerk transferred only to each other and leave the rest of the world alone.
RANT OFF
bomac <biker3@earthlink.net>
- Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 04:06:13 (ZULU)
NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--The U.S. has developed a new bomb, one that creates a massive conventional explosion that gives off a cloud resembling the distinctive mushroom-shaped cloud of a nuclear weapon, CBS News reported Monday.
...
The network's Pentagon correspondent said it seemed more likely the massive bomb would be used as a way of shocking the Iraqis into surrendering by making them think the U.S. had done the unthinkable by using a nuclear weapon.
hank <robahenry@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 06:13:17 (ZULU)
Quite an interesting crowd at the celebrations i was at on Sunday, With the Battle Colours (flag) of the 11th (SS) Panzergrenadier Division Nordland flying high on the flag pole, stood around roasting 2 wild boar over an open fire, drinking Bavarian beer, where, a British Army Major, a German Police Chief, an ex German Grenadier(his celebration)2 ex German Infantristen( 1 having fought at Stallingrad and did 10 years as a POW in the USSR)an ex French Para, 3 Scots Swordsmen and 2 Pipers in full uniform, one of the Pipers still serving in the Kings Own Scottish Borderers, one of the Swordsmen an ex Scotts Guardsman (who was blown up in the Guilford pub bombing in the 70's and who was wounded twice storming Argentine possitions with fixed bajonet on Mnt Tumbledown in the Falklands)an ex Bundeswehr Weapons Tech who served most of his time in Texas and is married to an American lady who's Father served in Vietnam, an ex East German Combat Engineer Officer, an ex East German Border Guard, an ex East German Infantrist and me. This crown made for a damn interesting discussion on battle tactics and some damn fine stories, hunters or shooters all. With the Pipers providing the music the Swordsmen gave a Drill display and all 5 marched half way through the village and back, much to the bespectackle of the local population, who must have either thought the Queen was comming to visit or they where bieng invaded by the Jocks. The sound of bagpipes always makes me stand straighter and taller. Thoroughly enjoyable and superbly interesting day. Pete L
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 07:27:52 (ZULU)
Have not posted in a while - still getting virus emails so what the heck....
The Dear John legend among the Cadets went something like this....
1. Plebe Cadet has girlfriend at a regular college.
2. They get into a fight on Christmas break.
3. Thinking she'll really hurt him, Girlfriend breaks it off with a brutal Dear John including a photo of her performing a skin flute concerto on some guy named "Biff"
4. Cadet sees opportunity to turn the table and mails photo to girl's parents with note saying "Thought you'd like to see what your daughter has been learning at college."
LT
LTChip
- Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 07:51:20 (ZULU)
Pete L
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 10:56:18 (ZULU)
"Are you holding your mouth right during the seating process?"
You lost me here.... I'm generally eating fried chicken when I load ;))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 13:36:19 (ZULU)
I always felt sorry for the poor guy who came in second! ;o)
Wes & Undude,
Hope you guys are going to be OK.
Doc
Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 13:57:55 (ZULU)
"I had a nightmare last night. My dream was that Russia, France, and Germany pushed the UN Security Council into sending "peacekeepers" into Iraq as a "blue shield" to foil any US and UK attack on Saddam! I know that I was only dreaming, now tell me why I'm crazy."
You're not crazy. Would not surprise me if they tried this tactic, but fortunately, we have veto power on the Security Council. I have often said, the EU (read that as France and other socialist European countries) has the potential to do the greatest harm to the US by withholding support or even acting at cross purposes to US national interests.
Pete L.,
Bet you won't find that great bunch of guys you celebrated with at the European Peace rallies.
Don
Don K. <ussr@clarityconnect.com>
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 14:12:23 (ZULU)
On scopes for sniping. I see no use to spend more than 800.00 for a varible scope. since Premiere has done such a good job with the LRs. If no one has noticed Leupold has come out with new Turretts for the MK4 M3 and better BDC's thanks to Pablito/Catshooter. They are doing good work also.
I am testing a new Horus scope that seems to be very good. Glass is as goos as the US Optics and NXS's I have tested. Got to wait on durability and get used to the reticle. Offers the ability to make fast follow up shots. but not used to that much stuff to look through.
Undude off to the Shot Show.
MikeMIller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 15:44:41 (ZULU)
George, you sent out several emails regarding the SC rifle. One of them requires emailing you back.
But your email is rejecting my emails! I don't know about anyone else, though.
How are we supposed to get a hold of you?
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 16:24:10 (ZULU)
******************************************************************
A Christian As A President...
Whether you do or do not like George W. Bush as our President, this message reveals some interesting plateaus he has reached. First, an observation. Have you noticed a difference in the salute given by our military men and women as President Bush walks by? Most folks would not notice anything, but those of us who have served in the military see it right away. Next time pay close attention when President Bush leaves his helicopter or Air Force One, the honor guards salute and face him as he disembarks, then turn their faces towards him as he passes by. They continue to salute his back as he walks away. This kind of salute has not been seen in the previous eight years, though it is customary courtesy to the Commander-in-Chief. You see, soldiers aren't required to turn and face a President as they salute. They are not required to salute his back. They are only required to salute. They can remain face-forward the entire time. And that is what they did during the previous administration. Our soldiers were forced to obey his orders, but they were not forced to respect him. From their salutes, we can surmise that they did not. Why is such respect afforded to President Bush? He doesn't even know how to bite his lower lip and not get teary-eyed whenever he speaks!
The following incident from Major General Van Antwerp may give us an insight..
Gen. Antwerp is president of the Officers' Christian Fellowship. He lost nearly all his staff when the Pentagon was attacked September 11. His executive officer LTC Brian Birdwell was badly burned and was in the hospital when President Bush visited him. Our President spent time and prayed with Brian. As he was getting ready to leave, he went to the foot of Brian's bed and saluted. He held his salute until Brian was able to raise his burned and bandaged arm, ever so slowly, in return. The Commander-in-Chief almost never initiates a salute, except in the case of a Congressional Medal of Honor winner. The injured soldier did not have to return the salute. But he did, out of respect to his President .a Soldiers' President. Congressman JC Watts (R. Oklahoma) said, "Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking," (My favorite quote of all time). The nation and world learned some of what our last President did when nobody was looking. That President has been disbarred, the worst disgrace (other than imprisonment) to a lawyer. CNN will have a difficult time shining his or his wife's tarnished images. In this time of war and danger, I am so grateful to have a President whom the soldiers salute -- fully.
On Special Report with Brit Hume, at the close of the show when they normally have some funny video clip, they showed President Bush and the First Lady on their way to Maine to leave for Camp David for the weekend. As the video starts, the First Lady is leading the way into the helicopter with the spaniel dog on the leash, and the president is right behind her with the Scotty on the leash. As the First Lady entered the chopper, the Marine at the gangway saluted and held his salute. The Scottie that the president was walking, decided it wanted to sit just when he got to the steps. The president pulled on its leash, but the stubborn Scottie persisted in sitting. The president bent down and scooped up the pooch and entered Marine One. After he entered, the Marine cut his salute and returned to the position of attention. Moments later the President reemerged from the helicopter and out onto the steps. The Marine was standing at attention, head and eyes straight ahead. The President leaned over and tapped him on the left arm. The
startled Marine turned his body toward the President and received his returned salute! I was so impressed by this true act of respect for our military people by our President! He really does get it. Most any other person of his stature would have just continued his journey, disregarding the neglected return salute. Not George W. Bush. He is earning the respect of the military community, not expecting it -- as most have and would. President George W. Bush. The man who admitted to having a drinking problem in younger years,
and whose happy-go-lucky lifestyle led him to mediocre grades in college and an ill-fated oil venture. Who mangled syntax, and whose speaking missteps became known as "Bushisms." He came within a hair's breadth of losing the election in November 2000. Bush named Jesus Christ as Lord of his life on public TV. Not an Oblique reference to being "born-again" or having a "life change." He actually said the un-PC-like phrase, "Jesus Christ!"
On September 11, he was thrust into a position only known by the likes of Roosevelt, Churchill, Lincoln, and Washington. The weight of the world was on his shoulders, and the responsibility of a generation was on his soul. So President George W. Bush walked to his seat at the front of the National Cathedral just three days after two of the most impressive symbols of American capitalism and prosperity virtually
evaporated. When the history of this time is written, it will be acknowledged by friend and foe alike that President George W. Bush came of age in that cathedral and lifted a nation off its knees. In what was one of the most impressive exhibitions of self-control in presidential history, President George W. Bush was able to deliver his remarks without losing his resolve, focus, or confidence. God's hand, which guided him through that sliver-thin election, now rested fully on him. As he walked back to his seat, the camera angle was appropriate. He was virtually alone in the scene, alone in that massive place with God, just him and the Lord. Back at his seat, George H. Bush reached over and took his son's hand. In that gesture his father seemed to say, "I wish I could do this for you, son, but I can't. You have to do this on
your own." President George W. Bush squeezed back and gave him a look of peace that said, "I don't have to do it alone, Dad. I've got Help." What a blessing to have a professing Christian as President. Please take a moment after you read this to "pray for him." He truly does have the weight of the world on his shoulders.
Pray that God will sustain him and give him wisdom and discernment in his decisions. Pray for his protection and that of his family. And after you have prayed, send this to everyone on your e-mail list. Our President needs Christians, Democrats and Republicans alike, to be praying for him. As this makes the e-mail rounds, eventually there could literally be millions of people praying for him, and for our Great Country....
*******************************************************************
Sorry so long.
JLU
Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 16:38:06 (ZULU)
There's a guy I just met, says he's an ex Navy Seal, with a bunch of citations. I know there was a site listed here some time back for finding phonies, anyone have that now?
Just wondering if I ought to buy this guy dinner, or give him a lecture.
Jaeger <Jaegerspotter@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 18:18:53 (ZULU)
Alert states, Brit soldiers on duty at Heathrow airport London (been there done that).I wonder whats happening at Frankfurt, just as well hunting season is over.
Funny isn't it, if you look at who exports the most kit to Iraq, i bet France, Germany and the former USSR come way near the top of the list, all these Europeans figure that the point of a war with Iraq is Oil supplies, so whats the difference between keeping the peace with a madman for the sake of export markets or going to war with a madman for the sake of oil supplies, both scenarios would be about money, i don't buy the fact that its about oil, that would just be one of the spoils of war. But what about all the kit that has made in France, Made in Germany, made in Russia stamped all over it, i'm sure they don't want us seeing that do they, what better way to hide it than behing a load of Blue Helmets with German and French troops under em !!!
Do you guys know the tradition of the white feather? it started during WW1 i belive, girls/women where encouraged to send a white feather to boyfreinds/husbands who where reluctant to join the Army ( see the film 4 feathers) There is a petition in the UK trying to get the general public to send a white feather to Jaques Chirac, i figure on sending one to Socialist Schroeder.
Don K, i doubt any one from sunday will be found at a peace rally, exept maybe to cause a rukus with some pro-war banners.
Doc, i hate to admit it buddy, but i sure as hell won a lot of beer, and yep second place is a bitch, you got an ugly woman and no beer..
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 18:23:12 (ZULU)
On your problem with the seating die...
Had the same problem with a Redding comp. seating die. It didn't show up until I used some Lapua brass. No problem with LC brass.
I called Redding and the person I spoke with said the Lapua brass could possibly be a little thicker and was causing the inside diameter of the case neck to be slightly smaller than the LC brass and made for a tighter fit. He suggested using a very fine grit sandpaper to smooth out the inside of the seating stem and then polish it with crocus cloth. He also suggested using a larger neck sizing bushing.
I did both things he suggested and it seems to have solved the problem. No more scored rings aroung the bullets.
jc
jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 18:28:01 (ZULU)
I've read that the VLD's are supposed to use a 2.5degree leade angle, and the SMK's use a 1.5 degree. Has anyone had any negetive effects using VLD's and other bullets with this type of Ogive (secant?)in a 1.5 degree throat, and vice versa, using a SMK(tangent?) in the steeper 2.5 to 3 degree leade?
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 20:11:31 (ZULU)
Pete; the White feather may have a different meaning for those not totally familar with the English Version. Our Vietnam Sniper, Carlos Hathcock took to wearing a white feather in his bonnie hat as a warning or defiance for the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong. Although I have no way of knowing it's possible that Carlos knew nothing of the English version and may have simply wanted to strike fear in the hearts of the enemy by identifying himself at a distance. Most of us regulars understand both meanings to a point but lurkers may be confused.
A while back someone asked about some TASCO mil dot scopes that have been offered at very reduced prices by dealers closing out merchandise since the TASCO/BUSHNELL Merger. With a little research here's what I have... The scopes in question are actually manufactured by the Chinese optics company that makes BSA. Now if you think this makes them inferior to the TASCO products of the past, please think again. We have been pawing over the BSA and their TASCO look alikes. The performance is quite good in all respects, they are built tough, have impecable turrets and power rings are as accurate as anyone's with the possible exception of $700 plus scopes. They are very user friendly and all priced below $125.00. I know I know! Don't knock it till you've tried it! The optics are unbelievable for the price or at any price. These scopes sport power changes from 4.5 to 32 power. And all in between. You will not believe it when you see a 25 power image through these things still sharp and clear. I don't sell em. I just test em. The TASCO has a prairie dog where the BSA emblem normally resides. The old Tasco's have gotten no better so look for the Prairie Dog Icon. I picked up a 2.5x10X44 mildot sunday for $85.00. Haven't shot it but some work at sunset last evening just left me shaking my head. Yen vs.$ has to be the reason for this.
I'm not advocating throwing away your good American Scopes but if your occasional lurker just wanting to play with Mil dots this whole line has to be good entry stuff.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 20:29:08 (ZULU)
Can you elaborate on the new turrets for the MKIV M3? Thanks!
Dinger <ding556@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 21:01:59 (ZULU)
Check out www.navyfrogmen.com
PJC <mywifeiscrazy2@yahoo.com>
Upstate , Sc, US of A - Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 21:05:44 (ZULU)
Split my damn head wide open a few hours ago. Went through an O Course window a little fast and didn't duck enough. Ooooooooooooouch!
The ole heart was already pumping pretty good and I bled like a pig (hey Pete). Damn Sergeant ordered me off the course because he thought I was hurt. Bleeding all over the obstacles. Cleaned up, finished up and still beat the first team's time. Hoooyah.
Got a big ole googy on my head though. Probably need a stitch or two. Damn. Oh well, if you're gonna be dumb you better be tough.
See some of ya'll in a couple ...
BKS
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 23:28:11 (ZULU)
OK folks I'm going to give out a teaser here as to some of our prizes:
Of course there is the rifle from Terry Cross at KMW
Ammo from Black Hills plus some other goodies!
Ammo from Georgia Precision Shooting Supply
Stock from Kelly McMillan
Stock from HS Precision
Barrel fron Shilen
Barrel from Border Barrels
Rifle scope from Nikon
Rifle scope from SWFA
How is that for some teasing!!
And this is just part of the list!!!
Sarge
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 23:53:01 (ZULU)
George Gardner/GAPRECISION... I am also being rejected by your mail server...
Larry
Larry J. Porter <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USofA - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 00:50:36 (ZULU)
I found a couple hundred rounds of 270 brass if anyone wants it for the shipping cost. Send me an email.
Have looked at all of the spotting scope stands on the market and have about determined that the Ewing is the sturdiest of them all and may be Boltster proof. Yet to be seen. Also, one of the Hawgs has convinced me to get a Kowa scope if I am going to take this game seriously. Am vasilating between getting the 27XxTS821 or going with the 20x60 zoom. Comments welcome. I can't stand using the Loopy with the mildots anymore for target shooting. Too much trouble moving the dots out of the way to find the boolit holes.
You guys need to send all the tackle repair work you can this way! I have a grandbaby due in April and have to finance shooting at the same time.
Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 01:38:28 (ZULU)
So much for the chicks at the SHOT SHOW....or will that be your "Oh you poor baby" (BKS all bandaged up looking wounded) approach? ;))))
>>>>>>>>If no one has noticed Leupold has come out with new Turretts for the MK4 M3 and better BDC's thanks to Pablito/Catshooter. They are doing good work also.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Is there a link for these? Gotta have some.
Jaeger,
Am using the One Shot on the FN stuff but the Redding FL die stem has to come out fairly frequently to be cleaned. Two Shoes was right but still gonna try to load these w/o cleaning case mouths. Good brass, nevertheless.
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 01:45:56 (ZULU)
Kowa TSN-821-M with 27x long eye relief. If you're gonna shoot across-the-course you'll be looking at spotters instead of bullet holes anyway so you don't need all that extra power. Especially if you get much mirage on your range. Looking through mirage at 60x is a bitch.
Also, that 60x eyepiece is going to make you get your eyeball right down on it and you'll lose a lot of your field of view to boot.
Jarheadtop.com has 'em for $735 and that includes a cover and free shipping.
HTH
jc
jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 05:35:45 (ZULU)
Chicks dig scars..
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 06:20:11 (ZULU)
JR here's one for you buddy.
Many of you will be familiar with the Beaufort Scale of Wind Force.
Less well-known, but equally valid, is the following scale of temperature.
The Glenlivet Scale of Fahrenheit Temperature:
50F: People in southern England(and France) turn on the central heating. People in
Edinburgh plant out bedding plants
40F: Southerners(and Froggies) shiver uncontrollably. Glaswegians sunbathe on the beach
at Largs
35F: Cars in the south of England(and France) refuse to start. People in Falkirk drive
with their windows down
20F: Southerners(and froggies) wear overcoats, gloves and woolly hats. Aberdonian men
throw on a T-shirt & girls start wearing mini-skirts
15F: Southerners(and froggies) begin to evacuate to the mediteranian. Dundonians swim in
the North Sea at Broughty Ferry
0F: Life in the south(and france) grinds to a halt. Inverness folk have the last BBQ
before it gets cold
-10F: Life in the south(and france) ceases to exist. People in Dunfermline throw on a
light jacket
-80F: Polar bears wonder if it's worth carrying on. Scouts in Oban start
wearing their long trousers
-100F: Santa Claus abandons North Pole. People in Stirling put on their
'long johns'
-173F: Alcohol freezes. Glaswegians( and JR) get upset because all the pubs are
shut
-297F: Microbial life starts to disappear. The cows in Dumfriesshire
complain about farmers(and JR) with cold hands
-460F: All atomic motion stops. Shetlanders stamp their feet and blow on
their hands
-500F: Hell freezes over. Scotland win the World Cup(supported by JR singing Flower of Scotland)
he he he ha ha ha, i added the bits in brackets..
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 07:08:19 (ZULU)
I don't care the temps: I always like mini and alcohol :)
Val
Val Sessink <v.sessink1@chello.nl>
- Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 09:02:20 (ZULU)
Well mate I dunno much about women, but some one once said to me with regards to women: "Rusty Roof = Wet Cellar" my first wife was a southern darker eurochick with teflon hair, the current one is a northern eurochick with stainless blond hair,( you know you met her didn't ya) if i have occasion to check out a rusty roof i'll let you know the verdict, but i suspect they're all the same, anything that bleeds for a week every month without dieing should be treated with suspision. having said that, say hi to yer sister for me will ya. Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 09:53:20 (ZULU)
get a get a long eye relief fixed mag eyepiece in the x20 to x25 range but definately no higher than x30. I have a 20-60 zoom on my nikon and I hardly ever use it at anything other than x25 for shooting. The zooms have MUCH shorter eye relief than the newest fixed mag units which makes positioning your scope much harder. You either have to perform gymnastics to look through it or risk nudging it while shooting so you can't see your target any more when you do look through it! I really wish I had one fo the new "wide angle" (as in wider field of view) x25 long eyerelief eyepieces for shooting. The zoom is great for other stuff but if you buy one mainly for shooting you will wish you hadn't. A lot of places will sell you a second eyepiece for half price if you buy the whole package at once( scope and 2 eyepieces).If you buy the scope and zoom, they might let you have the fixed mag unit for even less than half price. It's worth asking....... I wish i'd done that!
Mark D
Mark D <dougie@mill.co.uk>
London, UK - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 11:16:37 (ZULU)
Are there alternative mounting solutions available for the AN/PVS4? When mounted on the carry handle of the AR you almost have to crawl up on top of the stock to activate the eyecover.
With what little snow cover and 1/2 a moon we've got the scope function is amazing. It's almost like daylight out to about 150-200 yds. Well worth the $.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 11:53:06 (ZULU)
Can you identify a human face at that distance?
JR: Brother,
between rodeo, motocross, linework (high voltage) and police work, I have way too many scars. They say it all catches up with you at 40. Hmmmm.
Guess I'll go down spurring (rodeo term), as usual ...
Later ya'll
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 12:44:13 (ZULU)
Andy's Dad- I got a e-mail from you...not opened... I assume it's bogus. If not let me know before I hit the magic button.
Well no serious gun stuff to report. I 've been way to busy at work and with little stuff like an anniversary, Valentines day, court, cub scouts ("my" pine wood derby car rules =) and all that other stuff that we all have to do. I had the chance to get to the range with my M1A NM and play a little. Man, it does NOT like the 155 Palmas. My 870 has a tighter pattern. I'll stick to the 168MK's, it seems to like em the best so far. The M1A "Loaded" I just bought is off at the shop getting bedded and some small work done. My old PSS is there too getting rebarreled and the action trued (the free Rock barrel I got a few months ago and am finally getting around to fitting) so I'll have to make some time in the near future to square them away.
I also found out my cousin in A'stan didn't fall of a Llama he BS'ed me. But he did get hit and ran by a horse resulting in and ACL injury. Those seem to be going around lately...must be something in the water.
All stay safe,
Joe S.
Joe S. <spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, CA, USA - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 13:32:39 (ZULU)
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 14:34:42 (ZULU)
I can still hear here : "...we are small land (we are) whoever cared for us, we are unattractive for the terrorist, its not our war) and so on. :-/
J.Peter <hawkwind@seznam.cz>
Prag, Czech Republic - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 15:45:32 (ZULU)
ok Joke time, and pardon the language.
The Irish Army sent thier best female soldier to Iraq to bump off Ole Saddam. Unfortunately she got her anthrax and her tampax mixed up and poisoned the wrong cunt.
gotta laugh at that one guys..
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 16:05:45 (ZULU)
I'll try it tonite, if I can find a neighbor that trusts me to unload the weapon.:))) Will report back in the AM. I have a feelin I'll be able to, but if you said "look at this photo line-up and pick out guy #4, standing 200 yards away, and wax him". I don't think you could identify facial features that well. I'll do some simple facial ID tests at various ranges and light conditions and get back with ya. I don't have any infrared illumination attached. From what I hear, that effort will extend the usable range significantly but also lights you up like Times Square to anyone with NV equipment. The last crack head I saw didn't have it but I'd hate to find out the wrong way if someone did.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 16:40:58 (ZULU)
as you're here. Whats your mate knocking out 3-12x42 S&B's for at the moment? Need to plan my next covert shopping spree. I'm hoping they'll announce a PMII version of it at the shot show or IWA but I won't hold my breath.
Mark D
Mark D <dougie@mill.co.uk>
London, UK - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 16:42:08 (ZULU)
Just got my hands on one in good shape but trained on the M24 System and can't find any TMs on it.
Anybody help me out?
Thx
Jefe <diabloazul01@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 17:40:22 (ZULU)
J.Peter <hawkwind@seznam.cz>
Prag, Czech Republic - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 17:43:16 (ZULU)
Been a long time and not sure which one I had but mine had the stadia wire and they were either 18" or 30". You zeroed your scope with the top cross hair then you bracked that size of a target and then I think you used the bottom wire as your aiming point and you were dead on for that range.
Might be wrong, its been a loooong time ago since I used one but thats what sticks in my mind.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 20:14:08 (ZULU)
Hey, Pete, what's the chance of getting a beer at 8:00am in the terminal of the Frankfurt airport? I'll be going to Ukraine on business in May, and refuse to fly Air France as I did last year. Will likely fly United or Lufthansa, and in either case will be flying into Frankfort to change planes.
Don
Don K. <ussr@clarityconnect.com>
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 20:21:44 (ZULU)
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 20:45:47 (ZULU)
".....These kids died to save the French from a tyrant named Adolf Hitler. And now, as more American kids are poised to fight and die to save the world from an equally vile tyrant, Saddam Hussein, where are the French? Hiding. Chickening out. Proclaiming, Vive les wimps!"
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31001
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 21:17:34 (ZULU)
Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.
Hundred Years War - Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare: "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."
Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians. Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots
Thirty Years War - France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.
War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
The Dutch War - Tied
War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.
War of the Spanish Succession - Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.
American Revolution - In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."
French Revolution - Won, primarily due to the fact that the opponent was also French.
The Napoleonic Wars - Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.
The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.
World War I - Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.
World War II - Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.
War in Indochina - Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu.
Algerian Rebellion - Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare: "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.
War on Terrorism - France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.
The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long until France surrenders?"
--
Not my writeup, but..... interesting nevertheless ;)))))
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 21:25:50 (ZULU)
I don't know the answer to your mounting question, but I can't imagine mounting the PVS-4 on an AR without it being a flattop model. But that would be a nice problem to have. I'd love to get one of those someday.
Here is a link to a great NV discussion group forum. Check the archives there is a ton of great info in them.
Try this or click my name:
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/133782
Hope that helps.
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 21:45:06 (ZULU)
Click my name for a post that shows a link between the french and Canada.... Not really but a very offinsive article none the less.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30990
Robert <medicboy@excite.com>
Ne, Ca, USA - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 21:48:18 (ZULU)
Please tell me I'm having a nightmare.
I can only imagine the jokes.
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 22:05:46 (ZULU)
John Btown; Try the Leatherwood mount that extends down to the gas tube. It's the only one strong enough. You might want to use the B-square riser and mount the scope on it. That one will reset. It will be REALLY high by the time you have the handle and the leatherwood though. Facial Id is about 150 yards. Without moon 35 to 50 yards.
on most.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 22:39:10 (ZULU)
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30987
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 01:52:03 (ZULU)
The first week my little girl’s Brittany was struck by a car and killed.
Then I installed a CD burner on my ‘puter, to save photos and bits of brilliance from the Archives, and bollixed up the install and lost all my stuff. My system was down for three weeks and the shop finally had to reformat the hard drive : (
I had a follow-up exam by my neuro-surgeon and he said, “Well its been 14 months since your surgery, if you can’t feel your feet by now you won’t ever.”
I had a couple of vertebrae fused. You guys with sore backs take heed and start being careful. 50% of surgeries are not successful... and they call mine one of the successes!!
We bought my little girl a VW convertible (78) to restore for when she starts driving, and to cheer her up.
That afternoon my setter was struck by a car and killed.
He spent 24 hours a day by my side. (yes even at work)
You guys that spend your time with a dog know how quiet our house is now : (
But so far Feb. is looking up, My GA rifle is coming along on schedule. I just re-coated my cane with urethane in preparation for SniperQuest ; )
Maybe Wes, Mike, Yote-bait and I can form a gimpy old fart team ; )
Seriously I’m coming to see all you guys, I doubt that I’ll compete. Maybe I can confirm the dope on my rifle, and then help keep the beer cooler filled.
My system is now free of McAfee crud and has Norton in full swing ; )
And today I got caught up on the Roster & E-mails.
And I have two nephews in the Marines. One just arrived in Kuwait after joining this
summer, and one just signed up.
Yup they make me proud!
Oh yeah I called the local P.D. when I noticed a guy doing surveilance
on our small-town airport. He was using a spotting scope and a camera.
That's the first time I've seen our guys do a felony stop. They only had a three minute reaction time. I guess this threat level thing has everyone a little jumpy.
4i's <mikelsam@cox-internet.com>
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 02:33:13 (ZULU)
Email sent no attachments
Semper Fi
bomac <biker3@earthlink.net>
- Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 04:09:01 (ZULU)
str8shot <mshockley@hotmail.com>
south central, MI, USA - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 04:25:12 (ZULU)
Shot the TRASHCO 2.5X10X44 Chinese round Mil Dot scope tonight,, Somebody wake me up. This thing can't work like that.
Calibration check coming up this weekend. It checks on the cluminator but I'll be shooting with 2 ,300 Ultramags! Those guys are serious competetion. /Whiiiiiiinnnnne~! The one with the Sheperd eats .308 Winchesters for Breakfast. The other will be a Mil Dot with a PSS frame. Then there's the LTR with the P2 Sheperd.
Should be fun.
Brian; try to get through this weekend without a major disaster. Your gonna have to write a medical chapter in that book if you keep this up. My gun show buddy did about the same damage as yours but he did it by raising up under his fifth wheel! I think some babe walked by or something like that. IF only he had your imagination his stories would be more colorful!
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 06:34:31 (ZULU)
If you read yote baits' response to my mounting question you'll have the end result of my unofficial test last nite. With the moon and snow cover 150 yds was a good as 100. Beyond that you better know your target and have a full body view. I'll have to take Bills' word for the ranges with no ambient light in light of the fact I just received it Monday. The sight are available on GunsAmerica under Night Vision and the guy had 6 of 'em for 900.00 ea. He shipped FedEX Next Day for an additional 30.00. Hope that helps.
Yote, Fatboy, Kevin, email...N/A.
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 12:52:59 (ZULU)
Just got this from a friend. Pass it on.
http://www.historychannel.com/index.html#poll
"which right or freedom is most crucial to America's democratic way of life?"
T
Caison <tjsarchett@ezol.com>
Dela-Where?, - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 15:10:25 (ZULU)
thanks to the nice folks at RCBS.
http://www.rcbs.com/home/RCBSRebate1
Steve from New Joisey
Steven Dzupin <sdzupin@optonline.net>
Wayne, New Joisey, US of A - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 15:16:52 (ZULU)
str8shot <mshockley@hotmail.com>
south central, freezing cold MI, USA - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 16:54:24 (ZULU)
Been a long time since I posted - been rather busy.
Got a question for some of the guys who get deployed a bit more than us in the Reserves.
The Reserves has a big push on (obviously) and is starting to moblilize people on an individual basis as well as whole units. A buddy of mine got mob'ed 2 weeks ago. Phone call Tues night, got involuntarily transfered and had to report in to a unit 300 miles away by Friday noon. Not much time to take care of college, work, finances, family, etc.. when you may not be back for 2 years.
I have a heads up that the same may happen to myself and some other soldier in local units.
I have also found out that one of the local bases where they are doing the Mob's from is screwing up the basic issue, wrong sizes, missing items and such. Shortage in supply or what, I don't know.
Soldiers have been told that they will have their incorrect items or shortages, "made up in theater." Uh-huh, my ass they will.
My problem is this.
- I can't count on the system to get me the right stuff.
- I won't know until its to late (to do anything) what the mission is for the unit I get stuck with and what their packing list will be. Thus I will have to jump thru my butt just to get the minimum.
- I won't know exactly where we will be. A'stan, Turkey, Qatar... etc.. Different climates = different gear.
- I want to purchase some items now so they get here in time.
I have found out that as long as your not going over on the shipping weight limits, and as long as it looks somewhat military-like the commanders don't care if you bring optional/extra/non-issue stuff.
I'm perfectly willing to spend a chunk of change to get good gear that will last and function well.
FYI - My best guess is that I wouldn't be going with an infantry unit but will be working closely with them and will be outdoors alot.
Can anyone give me some suggestions on clothing and gear to get that can either replace military issue (without standing out too much) or is extra that is damn good to have? I've got my own list started but wanted input from those who have more field time or have deployed more recently.
Please email me if you can. I don't get online much lately as I'm trying to keep up with my normal life, get ready to mob and help various other units pack and mob.
I appreciate any help.
Thanks Gents.
~DA
Dakota Aviator <dakotaaviator@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 19:33:18 (ZULU)
Sorry.
~DA
Dakota Aviator <dakotaaviator@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 19:34:24 (ZULU)
My sympathies for your dogs, man. The past couple years I lost my two also. My 9 year old yellow Lab had kidney failure and I had to have him put to sleep right after Perry. He now "roams" the range in Capitan NM, where he used to love to go. My shep/collie mix went of old age on Memorial Day. He now rests in an urn until I can get back to Capitan to let him run with his "brother". I miss them greatly.
And every time my back goes out I fear this will be the time they want to cut on me! NOOOOOOO!
T
Caison <tjsarchett@ezol.com>
Dela-Where?, - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 20:06:42 (ZULU)
Dakota Aviator asked about having his "kit" completed by supply "in country". My advice...
First, reserve or not, you should always have your "kit" together. (Pun intended)
When I mounted out I took my class "A's" and everything. If you know where you are going take what you need. Probably Cammies and 782 gear. Take ammo WITH YOU. WE got a "you'll get it when you need it" speech when I arrived in country". BS! If your life is going to depend on it TAKE IT! I was armed from day one until my .45 ammo went in the amnesty box as I got on the plane to leave.
MY ADVICE: TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF...KNOW ONE ELSE IS GOING TO...!
Take warm clothes and rain gear...even if going to the desert. You WILL need both...
Have an appointment in town...gotta run.
Always take care of yourself, your equipment, and it will take care of you!
My .02 from two war time deployments...
Check six...OFTEN!
Semper Fi,
Wes Howe
Major USMC
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 20:23:20 (ZULU)
J Peter, let me know next time you are up this way.
Mark D, if S&B have listened then the PMII with 42 mm obj will be under $1200. i can't get a price on what isn't yet reality, get you a price on the 50mm one though.
Did i mention that the boss of Swarovski Optik Germany was at the celebrations last sunday? also interesting. But I'm still getting interested in a Zeiss.
Blaser have thier own schnapps bottled,(and had donated some) it tastes like hell, but we finnished the bottle.
I have just this week made a very interesting contact in the world of sniper rifle manufacturers here in germany, i'm looking at some close co-operation and interaction that should prove very very interesting, an article or two and a few test reports will probably be writen by me and i've some other ideas which may come off, when i know all the details i'll post here, but this will be very interesting.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 20:23:30 (ZULU)
I don't mind saving $5 but buy another press for the savings is a little steep for me. Besides I already have at least 4 presses now :)
Later
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 20:30:18 (ZULU)
just finished a little personal research on water filters that also remove toxic stuff...
http://www.katadyn.com/m/dcv/cms.php?K=01.01.03.06.02&O=0&L=en&M=e
ceramic matrix and carbon filter
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 20:35:54 (ZULU)
Someone mentioned NV, and that always reminds me of when the old man talks about the good ol starlight scopes, until you met someone with infrared. Knocks the starlights right out.
I cant remember if I posted this URL before, but click on my name and that's dad's old sniper team in 'Nam, Dragon's Teeth.. Bottom photo, Lt. Colonel Jack Quinn shaking Sergeant Ron Beck's(sniper) hand, Dad's(sniper) to Ron's right(the white guy), the two other fellas were security on the team I believe..
For all youse, the Dragon's Teeth name for this team came from 'Teeth of the Dragon'...1/14th is known as the Golden Dragons, and the sniper team was known as the teeth.. Gave me his boonie and his scarf, boonie stitched 'Super Bad Sammy', scarf has Dragon's teeth and insignia. Good stuff.. that boonie works wonders in wet weather still, after 33 years now!!
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 21:05:25 (ZULU)
The Article is quite interesting and goes into the history of US snipers, and the differences between Marine Corps and Army eqpt and the difference between the types of mildot, They do a test for accuracy with 11 types of ammo(5 factory and the rest hand loaded) the test is quite impressive. there is a bit about using the sling, quite a good article.
I see that Oberland Arms, who have been importing AR15's into Germany are starting to manufacture the rifle's here in Germany, and unbelievebly enough, with the changes in the German law, will be able to be owned in all Bundeslaende(states) and will not have to have these stupid looking thumbhole stocks fitted any more. (guess some things in the new law are better ?who'd have thought it?)
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 21:15:12 (ZULU)
Got some ?s for you. Can anyone recommend a good load for an M1A, 168s out to 600 or so? Never reloaded for an autoloader before. Does Varget work, or something faster? Also, what is generally regarded as the best mount and ring setup for one of these? Thanks for any help.
Semper Fi
Steve
Steve <TeufelHund7599@cs.com>
Corpus Christi, TX, USA - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 21:15:58 (ZULU)
and yep you wheren't far off with yer guess, damn interesting, ive handled a prototype but not the production version yet, but we are working on that, and i'm pretty exited about it.
I'm with you on the froggies too,ref thier war winning ability on the post earlier, yep that about sums it up don't it. Best troops they ever had came from the Waffen SS after War 2, they kicked ass in Indo China,but there where not enough of em to go around and they where diluted by poor froggy stock. Their legion/paras are some good troops, but what do you do with good troops and poor political leadership who don't know when why how or where to use em.
When you travel through Europe with a mobile(cell) phone, you get an SMS when you pick up the country network welcoming you to that particular country, when i enter froggy land i always send em a message back saying Remember Agincourt !! Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 21:28:14 (ZULU)
In my M1A I have had very good luck with H4985 and IMR4895 using 168 SMK, 180 SMK and 190 SMK at 600 yards. Varget was too slow for my rifle. A gunsmith can ‘time’ the rifle to the load by changing the gas piston. Mine was setup for the 4895 range. You may have to test several loads before finding one the rifle likes. Good luck.
Jerry
Jerry <gmueller@cablespeed.com>
Baltimore, MD, USA - Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 23:16:23 (ZULU)
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 00:24:53 (ZULU)
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 01:03:18 (ZULU)
I realy feel that I belong now I got my first email from Nigeria.
Am heading Out for some Yote's this weekend. Going to try the 50g Vmax that a friend loaded up for me. Also will get to shoot at some long distances for me, out to 800 possible.
Later.
JLU
Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 01:30:32 (ZULU)
E mail me if you have any information
Bomac <biker3@earthlink.net>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 02:42:49 (ZULU)
KenM,
Good to see you still around. You ever get to send any 7mm pills out of that new 280AI?
'Yote Bait,
Good to see you in from the sage,,, even if it's just the cold that pushed ya indoors ;))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 02:46:46 (ZULU)
Reading George's Lips; I'd lock and load. Monday is president's day!
Osama; Since you profess you wanna die anyway. I'd be proud if you'd send me your position. Why not make me rich? I promise it won't hurt long! Send me Sadamn's too, .. bloody infidel. Maybe you can convert him on the way!
50 Caliber 3 times the speed of a .44 magnum? What you guys up there at S&W smokin? 4500 fps. I think not. Tell us.. the rest of the story!
JOe D.; 800's a fur piece (no pun intended) for 50 grain pills. But have your self a merry holiday weekend anyway! Say hello to the back of the sound barrier for me.
Steve' Jerry's got it about figured right!
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 03:30:30 (ZULU)
I highly recommend this book. Have a bud that was a scout dog handler in Nam. Excellent read especially for you Sniper Mutt type folks.
http://www.dogtagsofcourage.com/
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 03:30:41 (ZULU)
I have been loading for the M1A's for several years now, and I have had lots of success with IMR4895, and Winchester748. I like LC brass, but I have had good luck with Federal, and Winchester too. Seat the bullets to the same OAL as Federal Gold Medal Match. Dont try to get away with just neck sizing the brass or you will be really pissed off when you gotta pull the bullets, and rebuild those rounds. I got Kreiger barrels on both of mine 6 groove with 1/10 twist. 2550-2570fps seems to work best for Sierra 168's or 175's. I shoot 175's out to 1000yds in competition.
I got two M1A's. One has the Springfield 3rd Gen Scope Mount, and the other has the Brookfield Precision Tool Company mount and Leupold Mark4 rings. The BPT mount is one of the best I have seen. ARMS makes a mount too, but I havent used it. The BPT is about $300 if you can find one.
Feel free to email if you need any help.
Best Regards,
Bill
William Bledsoe <dc8plumber@aol.com>
outback, ky, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 04:13:43 (ZULU)
I just got back from the G.A.Precision/Badger hospitality thingey. Ok I'm ok.........saw lots of the roster hawgs there, Mike Miller, Bruce Robinson and his lovely bride George and some other people. The beer and food was free. I'm ready for my root canal now doctor. I don't know how much more of this I can take.........I'll try...to .....continue..........so sleepy...........zzzzzzzzzz....
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 04:51:18 (ZULU)
Brain Sain- Protech helmets ....ummm good stuff...cheaper than stitches. I know from experiance =)
See ya,
Joe S.
Joe S. <spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, Cali, US of A - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 05:03:22 (ZULU)
Incoming email about "The Phantom of Phu Bai"
jc
jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 07:06:43 (ZULU)
The army is suppose to have fielded a SPR or Special Purpose Rifle, which is a AR with a 20" Krieger barrel, in A'stan. They are shooting Black Hills 77gr ammo in it. Does anyone know if it is performing to the militarys satisfaction?
What are the criteria the SPR is supposed to fill?
Why not go with the navys version of the SR-25 (besides cost)?
I know it's a gas gun question. But thought someone here might know.
Thanks
Bill
Bill Byford <byfords@otbnet.com>
IL, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 09:16:00 (ZULU)
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/vssweepman/vwp?.dir=/Project&.src=ph&.dnm=New+Nikon+Tacticals.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/vssweepman/lst%3f%26.dir=/Project%26.src=ph%26.view=t
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 12:25:35 (ZULU)
Been out of the loop for a couple years, but I think the Army is still using the MILES gear (just a new generation) called MILES2000 or sometimes referred to as MILES2. I'm sure someone else out there can get you a lot better technical data. We just called them P.O.S.
Chris too
Chris Workman <cworkman@esiofva.com>
Va Beach, VA, - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 13:40:24 (ZULU)
My baby is back home!! I picked up my 6.5x284 from Jr. and he gave me his extra barrel to go with it. I said, "Whats this for", and he admitted that he shot it on the man on man matches at the D&L shoot last summer after I told him I would kill him if he did.
I took it out and shot it, it still shoots well (4" 5 shot at 700 and a 4" 3 shot group at 800) but now I worry that it may give up on me at a inopertune time. I have to send the damn scope in on this one too!! I am having trouble dialing it(4.5x14) for some reason it turns real hard on the up an down. I want to get the new gen. mil reticle put in it so may contact Premier an see if they can correct it at that time.
The 260s really shooting well with the 140s so now I am loading in my spare time to get ready for summer. One thing about load testing in the winter the barrel doesn't get hot!!!(HA)
Son's on standby, might be getting called up within a week or two. Wish it was me instead of him. Much better being there than sitting home worring. The Gulf war was the shits when he was over there hate to go through it again.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 15:00:44 (ZULU)
Upon returning back from vacation, I received my Eagle TAC-V1-NU VEST (TAC-V1-NU). My intention for this vest is to set it up with gear for my Rice rifle.
My plan is to have two US GI canteen. A pistol belt and a standard combat pistol holster issued by our armed forces; can't forget the butt pack either or K-Bar. But besides that, I have yet to decide on what else to add.
My question is this, has anyone setup a vest with use with their rifle for green or black ops? If so, how. Any suggestions or advice on it?
Thanks in advance!
Darren
Semper Fidelis
Darren <usmc_dd214_1990@yahoo.com>
SF, CA, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 15:00:48 (ZULU)
Good deal. Looks like you just may need that barrel, but from the sounds of it,, it's doing well for now. You could always get the new one chambered and fit, then index it and keep the old one on until it's dead and switch back to the new barrel. A lot of trouble though.
Good to see the 260 coming along. I loaded up 50 rounds for the fagmags and I'm going to try and do some load testing this weekend. I hope I find something quick, as there's three more matches this month.
Shooting in the winter,,,, I saw the footage of the tractor trailor blown over in SoDak, and the snow rollers in the plains,,,, no thanks;))
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
- Friday, February 14, 2003, at 16:46:35 (ZULU)
I'm primarily a bolt gunner, but my M1A's have responded well to 168 and 175 grain Sierra's.
Powders? The old Isreali AA2520 shot wonderfully. Still have 8 lbs or so...
IMR 4895 shot so-so
IMR 4064 very good.
You may want to try Varget...it has the correct burn rate and shoots wonderfully in everything I've tried it in...
Stay away from 190 grainers in the M1A. Unless you want to beat the hell out of the gun.
Primers...use Winchester LR. Stay away from Federal 210's as they have soft primer cups and are frequently traced to slam-fires in the M1A/M14 rifles.
Hope this helps...
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 16:50:54 (ZULU)
Gaby's uncle (former SS MG guner) was in the Foreien Legion for about 10 years after the war, doing all his time in N. Africa. He said he had to get out when too many frogs started showing up in the ranks. Prior to that he said it was like a reunion from his Leibstandarte Div. He also mentioned the reason the Legion lost in SEA was that they insisted on running it in a froggy manner and not the way the "Germans" wanted to do it. But who's to say about that.
And I'm interested too, in that little secret you have. (but you can keep the rusy kabobs =)
Keep em in the X,
Joe S.
Joe S. <Spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, SoCal, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 17:26:08 (ZULU)
******Paddy Murphy goes to the Circus******
Paddy Murphy was walking round’ town with nothing to do like, pub's shut, then he spots a sign that says the Circus is in town. Never been to the circus, so he gives it a go.
Paddy gets to the circus, watches the lions, tigers, elephant, trapeze artist, he’s enjoying the show, when all of a sudden a donkey is brought out to the centre ring. The ringmaster gets on the PA and announces to the crowd that he will pay any man woman or child £50 if they can come down and make this donkey laugh. So lines of people form, everyone’s giving their best shot to make the donkey giggle, tickling it, makin faces, and this donkey doesn’t so much as smirk.
So Paddy decides, I’ll give it a shot, walks up to the donkey and whispers something in his ear. The donkey rolls over laughing, from the gut. Ringmaster begrudgingly pays Paddy his £50.
Next day, circus is still in town, so Paddy decides he’ll see it again. Lions tigers, trapeze, same show, ringmaster brings the donkey out to the centre ring, gets on the PA, says he’ll pay £50 to anyone who can make this donkey cry. So everyone lines up to try to make this donkey cry, with no success, not a tear.
Paddy walks up to the ringmaster, asks if he can take the donkey outside for a minute or two. Ringmaster says that’s fine, so Paddy takes the donkey outside the tent and 2 minutes later walks the donkey in, who’s bawlin’ it’s eyes out. Paddy holds his hand out for his prize.
The ringmaster furiously shoved the £50 into Paddy’s hand, and asks him “What the hell did you do yesterday to get this donkey to laugh?” Paddy says, “I told him my cock was bigger than his”. “Well how did you make him cry?” says the ringmaster. Paddy says, “I took him outside and showed it to him”
JR
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 18:15:36 (ZULU)
My limited knowledge on the SPR's as of a couple of months ago - there are (were) several different versions out there, Spr and SPR-A (probobaly more now) plus a USMC version called SMR.
They have been identified with Douglas, Krieger, and Schneider barrels with the Army versions at 18" and the Marines at 20".
There are a huge number of old M16A1 rifles out there and they're being put to good use by having the lowers refurbished and converted to SPR specs. A whole bunch cheaper than paying Reed Knight's prices, plus they wanted to retain select fire capability. We all know how controllable a .308 is on full auto. A local company has a large contract to perform some of these conversions, and they lease our club range one day per week for testing. Some other reasons that they didn't go with the SR-25 may be that the military needs quantities of the SPR now, and Knights may be stretched just producing guns for their existing contracts (my speculation).
I believe that the doctrine behind the SPR may be going toward the squad DMR application, although Master Rick confirmed that SPR's are being used as observers rifles in Afganistan. Sinister reported that the word that he got from the troops using them is that the BH 77gr. ammo is performing very well over there.
Now I'll editorialize just a little. I love the .308, and I own and shoot a bunch of them, bolt guns and gas guns. One of my next purchases will be an AR10(T). Having said that, I truly believe that many of the stories that we hear about the lack of effectiveness with the M855 round is probably due to the very poor marksmanship on the part of the average GI, enhanced by first time combat buck fever. You have to hit 'em to begin with. Then you have to hit 'em in the right place in order for it to count. The shoot through barricade argument falls apart unless you're shooting an LMG at fortified positions. What are you gonna do, use an M25 against railroad ties and sandbags, etc? Besides, the M855 will out-penetrate .308 GI Ball at long range anyway!
I've got some more SPR info if you want it, but it's been a constantly evolving project, and specs may be changed a bunch by now.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 18:53:52 (ZULU)
Thanks for your generous offer. Would love to make it an overnight in my ancester's homeland (my gramps was born there), and knock down a few lagers with you. I bet the Frankfort frauleins would love to see me to. Unfortunately, it looks like I am flying with the Dutch (KLM) and will be going to Kiev via Amsterdam (any ladies in Amsterdam?). I will definately take a rain check on that beer with you in Frankfort though. Take care.
Don
Don K. <ussr@clarityconnect.com>
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 20:57:57 (ZULU)
With that said I was looking for info on S&W 50 when I ran across this firearms production report (http://www.shootingindustry.com/02pages/SpecRep1.html). The reason I found it interesting was that I had aways assumed, and I know about assumptions, that Remington and Winchester/U.S. Repeating Arms were about equal in size and/or production numbers. What this report, based on year 2000 figures, shows is that Remington produces nearly twice the number of rifles. When I saw this what came to mind was the problem some have reported here about being able to find Stealths in the gun stores. It suddenly became obvious, there weren't as many to be had as the PSS's.
Beside finding some of the other production numbers interesting I figured that maybe knowing this might make those who have found a Stealth at one of their local shops think twice before passing on buying it.
Enjoy the report, I did!
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 21:46:16 (ZULU)
I have a custom (pre-ban) M1-A - double lug, Krieger barrel, everything tricked for high power. Only limiting factor is it does have a wood stock. I want to switch over to scope for all the advantages, mainly field shooting, but I could also shoot any/any matches in the area. Should I just buy an ARMS #18, or sell the M1-A and buy an AR-10? I am really unsure which way to go.
Thanks
Jerry
Jerry <gmueller@cablespeed.com>
Baltimore, MD, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 23:18:08 (ZULU)
Thanks for the info and feel free to e-mail anymore.
Has each service settled on different optics? If so, what are they?
I have asked a very knowledgable friend about the Sierra 77gr and it's preformance at min to long range in .223. If thee is anything interesting I'll post.
Thanks
Bill
Bill Byford <byfords@otbnet.com>
IL, USA - Friday, February 14, 2003, at 23:37:45 (ZULU)
http://www.swfa.com/spottingscopes/tripods/index.html
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 00:03:57 (ZULU)
Anyone familier with the FN technique for chrome plating their SPR bolt gun barrels, for the accuracy they are getting out of that rifle? Supposedly they are using M240 MG barrels, or is that a rumor?
Terry
Terry Hoover <Thooverusmcv68@aol.com>
Kansas City , Kans, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 01:01:21 (ZULU)
I have an M1A laminated stock highpower stick that I scoped a while back to see what it would do. I ran into a couple of issues. I had to replace the wood handguard with a fiberglass one to clear the scope mount. The stripper clip-slot piece had to be removed for a piece that screwed to the scope mount. It was not a simple 2 minute conversion so I set mine back to iron sights where it belonged and used one of my bolt guns for scoped work. I don't have an AR-10 but with the removable top changing from scope to irons is a lot easier.
Later
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 01:03:44 (ZULU)
I too would keep the antique in it's current form. It sounds like a fine piece, and is valuable as it is. IMHO you'd be better served shooting the M1A in Service Rifle Long Range. It may not have the edge it once did at 600, but at 1000 I think it still has the edge over the 20" mousegun. (I can hear ya now Hockeyref ;)) Not many shooters shoot SR at long range anymore, at least in my neck of the woods.
What ya should do is get a friendly competition going with the Hockeyref as to who'll get their NRA Master Classification first with a service rifle. You with the antique or he with the hopped up mouse. Then the rest of us could place bets,, and have a big time with it too ;))
Boltster,
Nice find!! Looks like it'd make a fine little rifle rest if need be, as well as a spotter stand.
A little more info on the new Nikon tacticals. It has 105 MOA internal elevation and 104 windage as well. That ranks right up there with the 50mm NXS and edges out the MkIV M1 as far as internal travel. It also has a slightly modified MilDot. Time will tell, but it has the makings of a nice scope IMHO.
No bites on the best throat angle for differing ogive shapes huh....
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 01:45:30 (ZULU)
"A sniper from a SWAT team who just got a raise decides to buy a new scope for his rifle. He goes to a rifle shop, and asks the clerk to show him a scope.
The clerk takes out a very expensive scope, and says to the man, "This scope is so good, you can see my house all the way up on that hill."
The man fastens the scope onto his own rifle, has a look through the scope, and starts laughing.
"What's so funny?" asks the clerk.
"I see a naked man and a naked woman running around in the house" the man replies.
The clerk grabs the rifle from the man, and looks through the scope at his house. Then he hands the rifle back to the man along with two bullets and says, "Here are two bullets, I'll give you this scope for free if you take these two bullets, shoot my wife's head off and shoot the guy's dick off."
The man takes another look through the scope and says, "You know what? I think I can do that with one shot!""
Gooch out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 02:06:39 (ZULU)
Much of the early development at the AMU shop and at SOCOM on the SPR was done using the venerable B&L 10X40 "Tac 10" scope in ARMS #35 track-type rings with #35 Throw-Lever base. It seems that most of these rifles in the field are now wearing the illuminated Leupold 3.5-10 M3 LR scopes, with above mountings. The plan was to go to the C-More Systems 1.75-7.5x illuminated scope for this rifle, but I understand that there have been some production problems (probably fixed by now). The Marines have been using the US Optics SN-12 scope (I think) on their SMR version.
Along with the refurbished M16A1 lower receivers, the upper of choice has been the M4A1 flattop from Armalite. The front sights have been the PRI (Precision Reflex) flip-up model, and both ARMS and KAS (Knights) flip-up rear sights have been used. Most SPR's have had their A2 pistol grips replaced with the Falcon Ergo Ambi Grip. No more wraping the second knuckle of your index finger around the trigger!
Triggers have been from Accuracy speaks (single stage) and KAS for the two-stage option. A PRI modified charging handle is being used. These rifles have (mostly) been fitted with an OPS, Inc. combination muzzle brake/supressor interface to work with the OPS supressor (if furnished).
Forends and rails have been the KAC free-floating RAC, the PRI carbon fiber float tube reinforced with a special ARMS extended length Swan sleeve anchoring the flattop to the float tube, a similar setup from Young Manufacturing Co. using an aluminum tube and their own extended sleeve, the C-More full float handguard, and the full length ARMS SIR system. A majority of the SPR's are equipped with the Standard rifle (A2) buttstock, but there some in the field equipped with the Carbine (retractable) stock. The last that I heard there is no "definative" SPR model out there - but that's possibly changed by now. I just finished building a clone this week and have been firing the break-in shots in my yard before a trip to the range (the ol' lady is in Denver for a week on business HA!) I'll post results when I have them.
Terry,
Word has it that the Military has been experimenting with a 6.7mm (.270?) version of a necked up 5.56x45 but that's all I've heard at this point.
An engineer told me that FN came up with a new (secret? patented?) system to deposit industrial hard chrome to an extremely uniform and accurate thickness in their bores. Supposedly much too expensive for any but the largest companies to utilize. But watch Winchester!
Jerry,
I've got an M1A NM and an M25 clone - love 'em both! But if you face strong competition in your area, and want to win, IMHO get an AR10 and have George build a .260 out of it. FWIW
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 02:41:53 (ZULU)
Bought a Comp M2 and ARMS#39 rail for the M16A2. Seems like a good solid system. Have to throw kudos out to Kelly at ARMS, they did good by me.
While I'm talking up people, Rocky Green at Unertl and the rest of his crew get a nod. They hooked me up, and now if I can just get my unit to step up and deliver the $, things will be good.
I ran across and traded for a Winchester 1886 take down in 45-70. Full sized rifle, 26"octagon barrel. Pretty cool. Feel like Quigley down under or something. Thinking 405 LBT's at about 1800 or so.
The gentleman running my local IDPA league E-mailed me the other day volunteering to send letters to my troops. A touching gesture that caught me by surprise. There are lots of decent Americans out there just doing their thing below the radar. Sometimes I forget that, with all the miserable shit that gets the attention in the media. Reagan was right about the invisible moral majortity. Things like this make it all the BS worthwhile. God Bless. Semper Fidelis....Ken M
Ken M <target1371@aol.com>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 04:03:28 (ZULU)
Sorry mate, missed the question on throats.. Shoot me an email and I'll see what I can do for ya... Think winter shooting in SoDak is rough eh? ha...Those overturned tractor-trailers make a hell of a windbreak/shooting pad..
Gooch,
HA!
Anyone shoot Reflex Suppressors here? Pete? Ya notice if you shoot with the can, then unscrew and shoot without, that your POI shifts about 4" at 100 yds? Seems a little extreme to me, wondering if something isn't aligned, bush is loose or something. I know your harmonics change, youse get different vibes so your grouping might not be nice, but a 4" shift vertical? hmmm... Never really had the chance to play with them in the states, it's a shame we can't use them..
Hope youse made it thru VD with only minor scratches..
Later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 07:18:14 (ZULU)
A betterer alternative IMHO would be for the US to just get the hell out of the UN, kick them out of New York and let them find another place to whine to each other. Quit sending our hard earned money and troops overseas. Let Iraq, Iran or any other of those psychos go ahead and start some crap and see how long it takes for the women's underwear wearing countries to come a begging. When they do start begging, like the Russians say, TUFKY SHISHITZKI. It is time for the US to shut the doors, slap a 1000 mile radius around us and blow the living crap out of anything that even looks like it may cause trouble. Heck, it won't be long before people BORN IN AMERICA are going to be the minority. CLOSE THE FRIGGIN BORDERS (except to all of our Roster Hawg buddies)!!!!!
I am ready to get off of 24/7, 4 hour notice, alert status and start getting some motherfornicating sleep. I want the terrorist illegitimate sons to have enough -bleep bleep- testicles to come out and fight like real men, hand to hand, knives, guns or whatever they want to use. I don't give a feces. We'll fence off North Dakota or some other place and just have it out. Leave the military outside the fence and let the good old rednecks like me do our thing. It would be a hell of a lot better than sitting around waiting to get called out for another 911. This sucks and I'm getting more and more pissed off every day.
On another note......
I'm afeared that the match at Butner tomorrow will be cancelled due to the 'wintry mix' that the weather geeks say we will be getting. You may want to call the range before striking out. If it gets cancelled, I'm afraid Master Cockerham is going to have a major coronary event.
Speaking of AR10s......
An AR10 in 260? Sounds really sexy! I reckon the mags would be a sawbuck a piece though. Of course, after seeing what 223 mags are selling for now, it won't be long before they are a sawbuck a piece.
Final note......
I said to myself 6 months ago...."Self, buy up a load of cheap Isreali gas masks and hold them to sell when the sheeple get scared again." Like an idiot, I didn't. Last week I saw two go for over 200 friggin bucks on EBAY. Sometimes I just want to slap myself in the forehead.
I think I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, Bolt cranky and out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 11:37:36 (ZULU)
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 12:02:07 (ZULU)
"I want the terrorist illegitimate sons to have enough -bleep bleep- testicles to come out and fight like real men, hand to hand, knives, guns or whatever they want to use."
Of course you do. The last time a nation state came out and fought us "like a man" they were ground into kibbles in the most lopsided victory in history. Don't expect a group that isn't even a nation state to fight "symetrically" with the US of A. They know what would happen. We are faced with "asymetrical warfare" like it or not. We'll need to adapt to the new rules and win.
The threat we face today is made up of men that are neither cowards nor stupid. They are filled with hate toward us and intend to destroy our way of life by whatever means necessary. Do not underestimate them.
I think our leadership knows even better than we how dangerous these men are.
Our greatest challenge will be to stay the course inspite of the ever louder blatting of the sheeple around us. The sheeple can smell a wolf in the flock and they are scared. This fear is exploited by the bed-wetting peacenicks that think fondly of the "good-old-days" of the anti-war movement in the '60s and see this as an opportunity to put flowers in their hair, get high and get laid like they used to.
I suspect FDR allowed Pearl Harbor to be attacked so he wouldn't have to deal with this kind of anti-war behavior back in 1941. Today we can't afford to let a "Pearl Harbor" happen because with WMD technology the casualties would be in the six figures.
"Come out and fight like a man?" Don't count on it.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 12:11:40 (ZULU)
Agree to a point. However, men fight men, armies fight armies. They may not be stoopid, but they are cowards. If a man won't stand face to face and rumble with you he is a coward. Then again, if I was stoopid enough to believe that if I blow my ass up for Alah I will get 17 good lookin virgins as a prize, hell I might do it too.
People call me paranoid. You damn skippy I am (in the vernacular of my daughters). I watched 'Red Dawn' a hundred times. I have read 'The Invasion', 'The Cobra Event', 'Germs' and 'The Hot Zone' a dozen times each. If people in this country don't believe it can happen there is no hope. One of these days the sheeple are going to wake up with only grissle on there asses cause somebody is going to get the meat.
Sorry to preach to the choir. Got up too early today I reckon.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 12:31:19 (ZULU)
Blair may have the eloquence, but Bush has the favor of his people because he doesn't sugarcoat anything. Thats the difference between the US and Britain and the rest of the world, people actually care about their country in the US, although at times we doubt it, the US is the most patriotic in the world. That's the problem, Bush calls a spade a spade and as much as we like that approach, the rest of the world chafes. Blair does not have the support of his people like Bush has of his, and no matter how pretty a speech Tony and his cabinet make, it isn't making a difference. The sheeple of the world are pussified. What is going the difference, god forbid, but it's gonna happen, is another attack.. I mean they could catch every wannabe terrorist that comes in the borders, but people will not align until it hits them personally, hits home, which means another attack in their borders. Then it will hit the fan, and everyone will come running to the US for aid.
And you're gol' damned right we should get out of the UN, NATO as well. I think we should do it just to make a point that we don't piss around, we mean business, and demand the respect we gave these countries when we decided to liberate them..
And don't close the borders yet eh...Give me some notice if you do Bolt, ha...
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 13:28:23 (ZULU)
I was listening to National Public Radio on the way home the other day... The interview was with a representative of ANSWER, the group that has so efficiently organized the large peace protests across the US (I don't know about abroad).... The interviewer asked "isn't Answer in some way related to the Worker's World Party?"... after about ten minutes of redirect, the interviewee acknowledged the direct link...
I suggest we all check out the politics of the worker's world party to understand what they stand for and how they are having a significant influence in American politics and public opinion. Just to whet your whistle... they are pro-Marxists, anti-Semitic group, they supported Milosovich <sp?>, the crackdown on the Tiananmen square uprising, etc... real nice folks.... The peace-niks acknowledge they are aware of the group's politics, but feel the greater evil of a democratic country attempting to protect itself from rouge terrorist states must be stopped at all costs, including, apparently, freedom.
How can we have so many stupid people manage to organize and assemble in one place? Perhaps there is a Shepard managing the herd animals?
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 13:32:17 (ZULU)
Strike the shepard, scatter the sheep.
Nick
Nick Anzano <nanzano@mindspring.com>
Milton, NJ, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 13:53:15 (ZULU)
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 14:10:37 (ZULU)
I sent a request via email to the French embassy the other day. I ask what "their" plan was. To my surprise, I received a response from a french diplomate. It was a 19K email so I won't post it here but will forward to anyone who might be curious. Or, strangely enough, it can be read on the CNN web page today as the French position. HA!
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 14:10:48 (ZULU)
Fatboy~ you setting up good laugh at my expense?? It'll be years before I get a LR card just because of the round count per match vs the rounds needed for classification. (Now if I shot LR at Perry....) The .308 and the AR at 1000 are basically even ballistically if you shoot 175's vs 80's.... now if I hop it up to the 90's, I have a slight advantage (and I need it due to the sight radius - not a big difference between an X and an 8 looking over an AR's sights at 1000). If you & JR get into the leade angle thing could youse bumz 'cc' me on it. Sounds interesting...... anything to expand my personal knowledge.
>>>>>"We are faced with "asymetrical warfare" like it or not. We'll need to adapt to the new rules and win."<<<<<<
The only rule to learn here is do what it takes to WIN - and know that you're gonna get some lumps along the way! I look at this as a street fight where any one of the assorted shadows around you might just hide a badguy that'll jump in at any moment. Any of youse remember your younger days where you got into fights over stupid shit like someone talked to your girlfriend? Seems that when guys tried to call me out for talking to their squeeze they always had a bunch of friends for "backup". I'd just say "Fuck it, I don't need your friends jumping in on this when my back is turned so either I'll find you when you're alone, or you, you, you, and you lets go. Pack a lunch 'cuz I'll be hungry when I'm done." I may not have been able to kick every ones' ass but I guaranteed someone had a trip to the hospital if I had to fight more than one of them! Whatever the idiot wanted to fight over usually became unimportant, a few took me up on the offer and we had a grand old time. I can't remember the last time I had a go 1 on 1 - off of the ice!
The point is you do what ya gotta do to stomp their little dicks into the dirt! All's fair!
Any comments on the plane going down in South America. Columbia? I heard that they found two dead crew members still in the plane - one US - with bullet holes in them. Thought the rebels had captured the rest....
Steve ~ Hockyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
Tired of this frigging snow, SW PA, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 15:40:49 (ZULU)
Incoming mail with no attachment!
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 15:52:39 (ZULU)
>>>The "shot heard round the world" is commonly thought of as the beginning of open conflict in the American Revolution. I was very surprised to realize that NONE of my young firefighters have been taught WHY the redcoats marched on Lexington and Concord... do you know? I would think it pretty important to understand what the 'final straw' that the colonists found so intolerable that they took up arms against a significantly superior army of occupation.<<<
If I recall correctly, the Brits were going to Concord and Lexington to confiscate the towns' central store of weapons. Things like cannon and muskets for those townfolks that didn't have their own weapons.
Did I hit the "X"?
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 16:12:42 (ZULU)
You wrote, "Today we can't afford to let a "Pearl Harbor" happen" but it's to late for that statement because 9-11 did happen. Past or present we can't say whether or not it was knowingly allowed to happen but we can influence the decision for anyone to try it again. But it is almost certain that if we take no action it will happen again and again.
Anyone got any "we're not interested in taking your guns" land outside of California, I'm looking for a new home to retire to? Based on the current state of affairs I might even pull the plug early, this place is beginning to stink! Let me correct myself, it's been stinking for some time, it's really worse than ever! I just heard that the Great Western Gun Show has settled with the County of Los Angeles. For those that aren't aware LA County passed an ordinance banning the sale of guns on County property. The twist in this case is that the fair grounds were leased to the City of Pomona. Under the settlement they won't hold any more gun shows on LA County property and my tax dollars are going toward the million dollar plus settlement LA County is paying them. Look around more counties are doing the same thing. Also, City of Los Angeles approved a yet to be drafted ordinance banning .50 caliber rifles in the city.
Got to get off the subject before the blood pressure gets to high, later...
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 17:04:41 (ZULU)
Spotter calls a hit, splash one marxist shepard...good shooting.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 17:05:55 (ZULU)
Move to TN. Land is cheap (and it's pretty nice land), two 1K ranges in Midd Tenn, No state income tax, Shall Carry law, 2 gun shows a month in Nashville. We are the 2nd lowest taxed state in the country until you add federal taxes, then were fifth lowest. I'll pay my 9.75% sales tax thank you ;)) Let me know when you're serious about moving and I'll mail out the real estate flyers/magazines.
JR,
I'll be sending a mail tonight, you'll get it too Hockeyref.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 18:31:21 (ZULU)
They're always there when they need us."
--Dick Knifing, Channel 13 KRQE in Albequrque
Don Smith <smith934@knology.net>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 19:26:11 (ZULU)
The reason I was considering the AR-10 over the SR-25 is because I can get the M1-A Magazines I have converted to AR-10 configuration. I was told you couldn't do that with the SR-25. Any body know for sure?
Also the Upper Receivers are interchangable on the AR-10. Again not so with the SR-25 unless I am mistaken?
Just thinking an upper in .243, .260, .308, and why not a real thumper like .358 Winchester? Thinking way beyond my wallet.
Cabin fever in Baltimore. Been in the teens and twenties for most of the week again. Snowing like hell now,expecting more tonight.
Jerry
Jerry <gmueller@cablespeed.com>
Baltimore, MD, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 19:35:59 (ZULU)
On their knees...........
Mark Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 19:44:30 (ZULU)
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/charleskrauthammer/ck20030213.shtml
-
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 19:45:49 (ZULU)
Seuss <samiam@netrax.net>
Inbound snow in, PA, USA - Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 20:48:45 (ZULU)
There is likely to be a .260 AR10T at ASC2 as part of the NJ three man team I'm attending with... Paul and I plus a new guy.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 21:08:23 (ZULU)
**********************************************************************
"The French, they are a peculiar race, they fight with their feet - and f**k with their face". - Oscar Wilde
**********************************************************************
But seriously folks, did any of you ever notice what the French word for 'shower' is. It goes a long way towards explaining why Frenchmen either smell really bad - or they're pussies!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 00:48:49 (ZULU)
Beginning to believe the widely held opinion on standard scope mounts. I just finished resighting my varmint rifle for the 3rd time in a year. The Redfield mount & rings (came with the rifle originally) seem to move with very little cause. On the other hand, the .308 with Leupold mounts did a 1 1/2 gainer off the workbench to a concrete floor last year and never moved. From my general gunsmithing days, I got the impression that Leupold either heat treated their mounts & rings or used harder steel. Gonna budget for Mk 4 bases & Smith Enterprises/Burris rings.
Bolt-won't be making the Butner trip. Between wife & work weeping & wailing just doesn't look good.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 01:22:26 (ZULU)
Made it back from the SHOT Show. Whhheeeeeeeeeeeew. Ya'll gotta go. Unbelievable. All the folks were there. Jeff Cooper, Chris Caracci, Denny Calker, Doug Koening, Rob Leatham, Dieter Anschutz, you name 'em.
Hell, I got three job offers and two marriage proposals.
Met Andy's Papa Grande finally, the Lowlight operative from the Hide, George and Marty's whole gang (what a party), Rod Hansen, Bruce and his lovely bride and others. Undude nailed me for two slings.
Met an Israeli SNIPER. Cool CHICK. Married to a doctor. She sez "I shoot 'em, the ole man fixes 'em up". Gotta love it. Talked me into doing a table dance in front of a thousand men at the concession stand for my damn SWAT shirt. I quit before the alternate lifestyle folk started waving dollar bills. Had a Badger shirt to put on thank goodness.
Met all the 2112s from USMC PWS Quantico. SEMPER FI GENTLEMEN !!!
I got damn drunk at Marty's gig. THANKS AGAIN MARTY AND GEORGE / FREE BEER ROCKS! Forgot to call momma that night though. oops.
Yeah, oopses ass. Payin' today. "Where the hell were you at....?"
Making up is hard to do. Isn't that an old Neil Sedaka song or something? I digress.
Head still hurts from last week. Dudes, we had a truck full of scateboard helmets. Just didn't wear 'em. Guess I just shoulda ducked more at a slower speed.
Maybe momma will slam it into the headboard later and reopen the wound. he heh. Ooops, busted on the 'puter. Gotta go.
coming Dear ...
see ya guys
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 01:30:17 (ZULU)
Jerry - You are correcton the AR-10's being interchangable, they are also cheaper, have beeter service, and the mags are cheaper. USA mags run $10, conversion kit $30, and USGI base and spring $3.50. Throw away the USA spring and floor plate, and save the USA box for proof you used an existing mag. So two for a saw buck.
Alan - the big problem now with the .308 SR's is production of rifles and mags. Knight has bought a new, larger facility but it will be a while before they move. 3000 rifles a year is about all Knight can produce. The other issue is that SR's and Ar .308's use different mags, and with the ban, the 20 round SR mags are in very short supply. AR-10 mags are easy to get. Amalite has a new plant, and has sold some to us and some allies, but nothing of any volume.
Your info on the .270 for the AR-15 is appreciated. I have heard the same, but that the case is a new design with a rebated rim to match the .223 rim, but allow for 30 grains of propellant pushing a 115 grain boolet. The shoulder is supposed to be set back to allow for the long boolet to fit into the mag. Supposedly only barrel, buffers, and recoil springs need changing to swithch over the rifles. MV is around 2800 fps with a range of 800 yards. BC should be over .55 if they do it right. Seems real optomistic, but I have heard this from several sources. I'd bet it looks alot like the old .280 round the british played with in the '50's. The one thing thats for sure is that their is no comon standard yet for the rifles.
Take care,
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 02:22:16 (ZULU)
incoming mail no attatchments.
Steve ~ Hockeyref <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
siting here decompressing , Got a rug rat induced headache!, - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 03:23:01 (ZULU)
Just a related side note. When you mount/zero a scope on a ring/base that has a course adjustment screw system make sure you mechanically zero the windage on the scope and make all of your windage adjustments with the base course adj screws before messing around with the turrets. If you dont do this you might end up running out of windage in a stiff wind someday and actually interfere with elevation adjustments.
When you get the point of impact as close as you can with the base course adj screws then lock them down and fine tune it with the turret.
Somebody explain to the class why excessive windage on a scope can effect the elevation turret??? I had a AL Trooper have this happen once and we had to totally rezero his scope. Anybody???? Beuller????
Gooch out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Japan - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 05:00:11 (ZULU)
Note that even Qadaffi later denounced the 9-11 events but I cant find anywhere where Iraq said anything about it. Kind of damning if you ask me.
"An unidentified person talked in the name of the Japanese extremist " red army" has claimed responsibility for the series of aggressions which took place on Tuesday in Washington and New York. This was in a telephone call he made with a Jordanian paper and justified these aggressions in the desire to revenge the victims of Hiroshima killings.
The former chairman of the Jordanian writers Union Fakhri Qawar, who is also the chief editor of the Jordanian daily al-Wahda said in a statement to the AFP that:" an unidentified person who speaks Arabic but in a foreign accent claimed, in a telephone call with the paper, responsibility for the series of aggressions in the USA and stressed that these aggressions were carried out in revenge of the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki." Qawar added that the speaker did not give details and closed the telephone receiver and Qawar stressed that he takes this claim seriously.
Several Arab countries denounced the aggressions against the US and sent cables of denunciation and condemnation to Washington. These were sent by the Lebanese President Emil Lahoud, the chairman of the Palestinian Authority Yasser Arafat, saudi Arabia, Jordan, King Muhammad 5th of Morocco, President Muhammad Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, President Ali Abdullah Saleh of Yemen and from the Kuwaiti President.
Moreover, Islamic organizations expressed their strong condemnation to these attacks and the founder of the Hamas movement Sheikh Ahmad Yassin denied his movement to have any link to the said attacks. Sheikh Yassin said:" Our battle is only with the Zionist occupiers in Palestine." Both the democratic and people's fronts for the Liberation of Palestine denied any link to what happened in the USA. In a statement the Islamic Jihad movement said:" we are against any thing target the civilians."
Just a thought..
Gooch out again...
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
- Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 05:23:31 (ZULU)
This identical same scenario is used in the Tom Clancy book, "Executive Orders," with the exception being that there was only 1 plane involved. In this case a rogue Japanese pilot flies a 747 into the Capitol building and kills most of Congress, the President and also the Supreme Court. The pilot's actions were said to be retribution for the outcome of WW2 in the Pacific Theatre...and the pilot acted alone. The copyright on this book (if I'm not mistaken) is 1996.
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 06:33:31 (ZULU)
Back from two days at the Shot Show. I have met a lot of people that I see their names on the internet. Good to be able to put a face to the name. I enjoyed talking with each one of you, and hope to see you again at some of the shoots.
While I was away I received a thank you card from Steve Suttles for the get well card I sent him. THANKS!!!! I hope you get back to your regular self soon.
TonyM
TonyM <tam308@aol.com>
FL, US of A!!!! - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 13:26:50 (ZULU)
"Somebody explain to the class why excessive windage on a scope can effect the elevation turret??? I had a AL Trooper have this happen once and we had to totally rezero his scope. Anybody???? Beuller????"
Now,, I'm guessin' here,, but I figure if you run the erector cell to one side or the other, it's no longer centered in the tube. Since there's more room in the center of the scope tube than than there is on the sides, when you run the knobs up or down the cell will contact the tube before it runs out of travel on the adjustment screws.
How'd I do?
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 13:50:59 (ZULU)
Got me a new puter yesterday. Running this old one until Monday when the Roadrunner truck comes by. Yep, decided to go with Roadrunner for a while and see how it does. Ended up with a P4/1.8Ghz/256ram/40gig drive/RW/N/98, 40x12x40x CD burner, 1.44 Floppy, Hyundai ImageQuest L70B flat screen. Can't imagine what it's going to be like trying to change email addresses. Haven't had to do it for 8 years. Plus have to set Dough Lady up an email address.
Man, I tell you what, Fox News has the best hotties on the tube. Easy on the eyes.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 15:54:00 (ZULU)
Great job on the scope answer. I've always used a dime and a quarter to illustrate this principle when face to face with someone who doesn't seem to understand it. Center the dime flat atop the quarter, then ask him to put some windage on the dime. Then instruct him to try to gain maximum elevation with the dime, within the confines of the quarter, while holding the windage previously set. This example saves a thousand words with some people!
Titan,
Thanks for the heads up. Got a question for you! I've heard that Knights have stopped making their CMP/DCM version of the SR-15, which I thought to be possibly the best factory built Service Rifle ever made. Is this also because of lack of ability to meet production levels already committed for, and do you think that they'll ever resume production of this rifle when they expand their facilities? I competed with a borrowed one once, and it had the best two-stage AR trigger that I've ever used, besides being a fine rifle in itself!
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 17:31:26 (ZULU)
Alan, rumor has it that Knight sells the MkIIMod0 to the military for $6500 each, which means about $4000 profit in eack kit that goes out the door. This will give you some insight as to why the Sr-15 and civilian stuff is drying up. There is no point making $1000 dollars when you can make $4000. Besides, for what Knight charges for their match rifle, you can get a hand built one from Compass lake. I have shot the Knight CMP rifle, and while it is a nice one, the Armalite and the Bushmaster are just as good. I will duck now for incomming.
People -- What we are withnessing now with this anti war crap, and the German/French( Pussy ) Connection is an all out economic war between the Euro and the Dollar. Since the Dollar's value is only based upon our economic reputation, if OPEC switches to Euros our economy goes in the shit real quick. IF we prevail, then OPEC is dead and the dollar becomes the truely dominant currency of the world. By invading Iraq, all hope of the Euro becoming the standard goes down the tiolet. The Alliance of Gutless Wonders is tring to get Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, and Saudi to switch to pricing oil in Euro's, instead of dollars. Russia is on the fence as to which way to go, and since we gutted there economy in 1998 they may be looking for a little payback, but they want to be on the winning side most of all. The big part of our taking IRAQ is to stablize the world situation politically, and I clearly think that we will make an example of him that our N Korean Buddy and anyone else will take seriously. It also would not suprise me that The Gutless Wonders have struck a deal with the terroist to behave like they are in exchange for terroism free zones in there countries. This is not to mention all the GDR and French chemicals in Iraq and other places. Keep in mind too, that the money behind these peace protests is coming from the banks of the GDR and France through the old communist/socialist networks. We have to win this or the world is seriously screwed for generations!!!!!
Can anyone say Dark Ages II
OK Rant off.
Bye
Titan <hatherly1@comcast.net>
, Michigan, United States of America - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 19:45:38 (ZULU)
danny mull <drm8194@hotmail.com>
akron, oh, - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 19:55:34 (ZULU)
I'm looking for a scope for my VS .308. I mostly use my rifle for target shooting (some club matches, nothing major) and also for deer hunting, (once a year). I'd like to have the capability to hit targets way out there (i.e. 500 - 1000 yd. range), just for my personal satisfaction.
1: I'm leaning towards a Vari XIII Leupold M1 or M3 3.5-10. Does anyone have a strong preference between those two? I have no experience with either, so your feedback will be welcomed.
2: What about the Springield Gov. models 4.5 - 14 with the illum. ret.? Does anyone have any experience with them? For the money, it seems like they have some good features but I've only seen a couple of reviews.
Thanks in advance for your insight.
corbett mortensen <rexhavoc3@cox.net>
omaha, ne, usa - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 21:44:59 (ZULU)
re: Dr. Ruth Westheimer
http://www.germanheritage.com/biographies/mtoz/westheimer.html
excerpt:
Ruth was 17 with no home, family or country when WW II ended . All she had was the hope of starting over again in a place where she would feel welcome. That place was supposed to be Palestine. But Palestine was not the land of milk and honey of which Ruth had heard. On May 14, 1948, Israel declared its independence. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Irak immediatley attacked the new nation, and once again Ruth's world collapsed. Ruth, dedicated to the building of a Jewish homeland, joined the Haganah and was trained as a sniper. On her twentieth birthday she had just finished up guard duty when an Arab shell exploded at her feet, seriously injuring her. Her recovery was slow, but she survived to walk again.
rod regier <rsr@hfx.andara.com>
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 22:39:22 (ZULU)
Check the archives.
The M1 vs M3 thing has been killed here. I and several others who regularly post here own both and there are benefits to each. Don't get wrapped around the axle about the 1 MOA elev adjustment on the M3. You will be right on (or darn close) at 100 or closer.
Leave the Springfield. The Leupold is the deal.
Get one with a Gen II reticle from Premier and you will be good to go to.
PJC
PJC <mywifeiscrazy2@yahoo.com>
Upstate, SC, US of A - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 22:49:07 (ZULU)
If anyone missed the sniper series on The History Channel, they are showing it again starting Tues. Feb 18 at 8.00 pm central time.
Take care!
Rob Opp
Robert Opp <ropp@state.nd.us>
Jamestown, ND, USA - Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 23:38:05 (ZULU)
We have Dr. Ruth Westheimer: Doctor of sex, yet a trained military sniper.
And then we have Master Brian K. Sain: trained sniper, but also chick magnet and sex god in his own mind.
OK, what I propose is we commission the two of them to spawn, Preferably together and create an advancement in the human race. A whole new and improved genetic species. A new super human race. Think of the endless possibilities.
Just kidding Sir Sain. I'm sitting here board out of my mind with the in-laws and I have to read you exciting report about the Shot Show. Some times life isn't fair... Anyway thanks for the Shot Show update. Any new toys to get excited about? Anything worth going in debt over?
Oh BTW "Bolt for President". Your take on the current situation is right on!!!
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 00:25:26 (ZULU)
Out here
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
Japan - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 01:50:38 (ZULU)
He hee. Yeah Johnny, my mind is a scary place. Never a dull moment.
Dr. Ruth might say: "Ja, zat Cajun Sharfshuetzen is vull ov Vullshitzen" ha.
Seriously dude, the show was great. Try and go next year. Vegas is even bigger and is cheaper to get to and stay anyway. Lots of folks told me that. Maybe you can make it next year.
SC guys were really good people.
Later man ...
PS: REF: "OK, what I propose is we commission the two of them to spawn, Preferably together and create an advancement in the human race."
Lemme know when you guys get the commission money together.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 01:58:04 (ZULU)
Don't think Loc-Tite would help much, they don't have the dovetail/inverted cone heads on the base windage screws & matching cuts on the lower ring section anymore. Those would lock the rear ring against movement. Thanks for the suggestion.
Frogs revisited- did that long list of French military "highlights" include getting thrown out of Mexico? They tried to install Emperor Maximillian -fight produced the legendary battle of Camerone for the Legion, Cinco de Mayo for the Mexicans. Gee- think of all the revolutionary movements the French have helped succeed.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 02:23:53 (ZULU)
ARMS came out with a new version of their S.I.R. system for 15/16s. Slimmer handguard, step down upper pic rail with another that hinges over it for the best in mount height adjustability (you can use either). I will be receiving one of the first 50 Military versions on the market next week. Plan to T/E it and do an article. Best feature is, it comes in anodized green (as well as black) to match the furniture on my green stocked, green hogue gripped, RRA M4.
My shit usually gets spray painted anyway but my M4 just rocks with the black/green scheme.
S&W came out with a 1911 clone. Only real difference is an external, slide mounted extractor. They also came out with a .50 cal., long barreled, 686 looking revolver with muzzle break. Damn cylinder looks like a new garbage can. Both seem like shitty ideas to me. Bet they don't sell many. What are they thinking?
Plenty of cool assed knives on the way from SOG, Al Mar, CRKT and Benchmade.
Some cool assed shooting glasses out there too. Cheap. UVEX GENESIS. Look and fit similiar to some Oakleys. Quick interchangeable, multi colored lenses. You can literally tie the frames in an overhand knot without the lenses in 'em. Fully adjustable temple pieces all the way around (Length and angle). Anywhere from 8 to 14 bucks. Outfitting my whole Team with 'em. Do a Google search on UVEX GENESIS for pics. Passed Mil VO Ballistic testing (I don't know what that is but it sounds good).
Can't go wrong with these fellas.
Beautiful double shotguns and custom stuff as to be expected.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 02:29:31 (ZULU)
De Oppresso Liber
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 02:36:18 (ZULU)
It was a good time. Plenty of neat stuff and as usual there were beautiful ladies all over the place but with Sain there we mortals didn't stand a chance.
John and Rod were working hard trolling for prizes to add to the table at the ASC#2. They scored big.
The hospitality gig that Marty and George put on was fun.
Oh well time to go back to work.....below zero here..again.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 09:50:06 (ZULU)
I see that Savage has released a new rifle in their "law enforcement" series- -Model 10FP-LE2B. Comes in .308,1 in 10 twist, heavy barrel (24"), the new adjustabe "accu trigger" and a McMillan stock, all for a suggsted list price of $912. Street price is probably lower.
I don't want to get into a new Savage vs Rem. battle, or start a new one, but am looking for some constructive advice on wether or not to purchase this rifle. The specs look good to me.
Is the 1 in 10 twist too slow, or too fast for a .308? I know thats a loaded question, because bullet weight and velocity come in to play, but assuming i'm looking for accuracy at longer ranges, I would probably be looking at loading 168's or 175s.
Thanks!
Good luck to our Armed Forces, where ever they may be.
rob ratvasky <rratvask@tricountyi.net>
mifflintown, pa, usa - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 16:05:45 (ZULU)
I agree, the Rem. vs. Win. vs. Sav. thing has been beat to death here. That new model Savage that you're talking about sounds really interesting! Do you know what model McMillan stock that they're using?
My experiences with the Savage have been very positive once the old trigger was replaced and that flexible thing that they called a stock was replaced. They seem to have very good barrels and shoot well especially for a low priced stick. With the new trigger and stock it looks like a sure winner.
If you can buy it for around $600 to $700Max it'll probably be a real good deal. If they are holding you up for more than that either wait for the prices to come down to earth, or buy a Stealth! Or even a PSS, but you'll have to keep your fingers crossed for a good one.
A big disadvantage with the Savage when compared to the Remington and a lesser degree to the Winchester is the lack of aftermarket goodies such as replacement bottom metal and a shortage of scope rails to choose from. That should be taken into consideration when choosing your rifle.
You'll be fine with a 1/10 twist especially if you're going to stick with the 168's and 175's. Even 150gr. bullets should work well - it's awfully hard to "overstabilize" a bullet, but it's relatively easy to under-spin one, such as a 175SMK out of a 1/14 barrel. But even that wouldn't surprise me anymore.
HTH, ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 17:01:05 (ZULU)
the way I read it, the LE-2B comes with a 26.5" barrel and a McMillan A3 stock. I don't see how you could go wrong.
I'm gonna have to admit,, I've been thinking about a Savage for a few months now. I'm in the planning stages of a stainless Long action with McMillan Prone. Changeable bolt heads and pre-chambered Pac-Nor barrels in 6.5x284/7-300WSM/308win Palma. I think a rifle like this would be a decent test bed. Now, I wouldn't expect this to be a hardened rifle, or the MOST accurate rifle in the safe, but a compromise to test calibers, and it'll allow me to test the feasibility of a new match chambers and twists without carrying 3 rifles all the time, or having to have them fitted to the rifle professionally.
For a strict match rifle, I'll still go with a dedicated, non switch barrel rifle, but for testing,,,, what if a chamber/twist sucks and you had it built?
SSS makes good triggers for them now, Badgers makes rails, McMillan is inletting all the tac/comp stocks for the Savage now, several companies are making pre-fit barrels and Sharp Shooter Suppy sells every thing you could ever want to build one. All you need is a headspace guage (or fired case) and a barrel nut wrench.(a little over simplified)
The actions I've handled weren't the smoothest things,, but for the money,,, why not give one a try??
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 17:04:03 (ZULU)
800 was total FOF. Did some shooting at 400 but not much after sitting in -2° weather and a 10 mph wind. The only thing I saw in 2 days was 1 cottontail. Boy those Vmax sure make the fur fly. (Ha)
Have any of you guys had cracks in the stock behind the bolt on your Stealth's? I noticed them while hunting this weekend. I have only shot about 75 round with it. The cracks are small but one of them is in a half circle ant it looks as if I could lose a small chunk of stock. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
JLU
Joe Udelhofen <karen@execpc.com>
Milwaukee, WI, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 17:09:00 (ZULU)
Had some blokes over from N Ireland(catholics and protestants strangely enough, so they can get along together !!) hunting pigs this weekend, one venue got snowed out, and they didn't do too good at the other, noisy clothes, pissing near the bait and talking on the phone and fidgeting about, the only one who got a pig was a policeman.
JR, Peter Carr has a reflex and is real happy with it, i'll ask him what his change in impact is, I've got the husher and it drops POI by ... ?? what was it now, either 4 or 6" i can't remember off hand but the data is with the rifle. I guess how much depends on the weight of the can, the thickness of your barrel, length of the barrel and the leverage it puts on your barrel, ie, the husher hangs completely off the end of the bbl and the reflex sits back over the bbl. now the 4 or 6'is on the sporter barrel, on the 20"fat barrel i sem to remember that the change was minimal, infact i think it shot to POA, but if you rattled of a few rounds quickly the group was larger than without the can, if you let the can clear of gas/smoke and cool, it put them in the same place. there must be a scientific formula for this some where???
Joe, ref the froggies, Get Steve(bisley tiger) to send you the email he sent me with the attachment of the froggy army magazine, its hillereouse !!! infact Steve, send it to every one here, that is to good for all not to see !!!
What was said about the Euro V the Dollar, i'd go along with that, thats what all this German French treaty pally pally shit is about, they have a domination wish.
Anybody know why there are rows of trees planted along the sides of the roads through France and into Germany? its so the Brit and American servicemen can march in the shade on thier way to bale the europeans out yet again.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
- Monday, February 17, 2003, at 17:28:59 (ZULU)
One of the members at my club had a PSS about three years ago that had a H-S stock that was begining to crack as you described. I recommended that he call Janet Thompson at H-S and ask her opinion. Janet asked him to send his stock to her, and in less than two weeks a brand new stock was in his hot little hands. No trouble since!
Alas, I understand that Janet has left the company, and IMHO it's their loss. She was great! Possibly, JR could suggest a person to help you at H-S, I have no idea who's handling their CR now.
Chris,
Your Savage switch barrel idea has my gears turning, especially since they're now using a A3 stock. An economical way to test for several calibers with one basic platform, and switching barrels appears to be pretty easy on the Savage since I do that with great sucess on AR-15's all the time.
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 22:04:20 (ZULU)
check this thread out on www.longrangehunting.com. Click on my name.
The guys on SnipersHide also like the Savages, but they tweek them a bit differently.
Wonder where Paul Cockerham is,,,, He's a dedicated Savage shooter,,, bet he could shed some light on this....
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Monday, February 17, 2003, at 23:28:13 (ZULU)
I have a 10FP. They are good rifles to get started with. I shoot both 168 SMK and 175 SMK with good accuracy. Mine tends to like the 175 a little better but both are good. The new ones have a new type trigger.
The barrels are interchangable on them, that's what the funky barrel nut is for. You have to make sure of bolt length and mag length, you can't use long cartridges on a short action. You will need a barrel wrench,barrel vise, bolt heads(or complete bolt)and gauges.
Midway has a set-up that allows barrel swaps for do-it-yourselfers. They also have 18 different caliber barrels(Adams) available, so you don't have to use factory barrels. Check Guns&Ammo Dec.2002 "Presto-Chango". I believe this would also work with custom made barrels.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 03:26:33 (ZULU)
War hero thwarted Nazi atomic bomb plans
CanWest News Service
Friday, February 14, 2003
Mr. Skinnarland, who died in Toronto, was pivotal in one of the war's greatest sabotage operations.
Norwegian-born Einar Skinnarland, who 60 years ago this month helped turn the tide of the Second World War by thwarting Nazi plans to build an atomic bomb, has died at the age of 84.
The efforts of Mr. Skinnarland and his colleagues to blow up material needed to produce atomic weapons formed the basis of the film The Heroes of Telemark.
Mr. Skinnarland was an engineer at the Vemork hydroelectric plant that was able to produce small quantities of heavy water needed for plutonium production.
According to war historian Stephen Stratford, British intelligence learned in 1940, shortly after the Nazi occupation of Norway, that the Vemork plant, west of Oslo, had been ordered to increase heavy water production to nearly 1,400 kilograms a year. By January, 1942, that number had increased to more than 4,500 kilograms a year.
During a holiday in March, 1942, Mr. Skinnarland escaped Norway and, after helping to hijack a coastal steamer, made his way to Aberdeen, Scotland. Mr. Skinnarland gave British intelligence detailed information on the Vemork plant and the Nazi guarding system.
Mr. Stratford's British military Web site says Mr. Skinnarland agreed to return to Vemork as a guide for a sabotage mission, and he was subsequently dropped over the Hardanger Vidda mountains on March 28, 1942.
Mr. Skinnarland quickly became close friends with the chief engineer of the plant and was able to obtain vital information to sabotage operations.
The first mission to paralyze the plant ended in disaster after two gliders carrying British Royal Engineers crashed in poor weather while attempting to land near the plant and make contact with Mr. Skinnarland.
A second attempt by a six-man team from the Norwegian Special Operations Executive in February, 1943, paralyzed the plant. It is still regarded as one of the greatest sabotage operations of the Second World War.
In the summer of 1943, Mr. Skinnarland learned the Vemork plant had restarted production of heavy water. The U.S. Air Force launched a bombing raid but was unable to harm the plant, protected under seven concrete floors.
Still, Norwegian technicians were able to convince German officials the plant was no longer operational.
In 1944, Mr. Skinnarland was told by the British the plant was to be moved to Germany with the stocks of heavy water. Assisted by Knut Haukelid, a Norwegian operative, he learned the shipment was to happen via ferry boat.
Along with other Norwegian resistance agents, Mr. Haukelid strapped explosive charges to the ferry, which blew up and sank in 300-metre-deep water in Lake Tinnsjo in February, 1944.
Mr. Skinnarland emigrated to the United States shortly after the war, moving to Toronto in 1965 to take a job with a construction firm.
He died of a brain hemorrhage in Toronto on Dec. 5, 2002. He is survived by his wife, the former Trudi Gans, born in Fairview, Alta., five children, six grandchildren and his sister, Solveig.
(Ottawa Citizen)
TorF <torf@aftenposten.no>
Oslo, Norway - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 08:37:54 (ZULU)
Pete L- Gaby and I had talked about getting over there to visit her family in April but with all the hate and discontent going on between the good ole USA and the Fatherland we are probably going to postpone. I guess I'll owe you the first round a little longer. It is too bad about the problems. I've always been treated great in Germany and in France. I really like Paris (ummm food)and the north coast (they seem to remember a little better what our two country's did for them up there).
JLU-I had a similar cracking problem on the nose of one of my stocks. H&S had me send it to them and I had a new one ASAP. That was a few months ago. It shouldn't be a problem to get a new one, they were johnny on the spot, no questions asked.
Rob R- Savage rifles-My 110FP is my Frankenstien gun. Anything I want to just try or do to a rifle I do to this rifle before any other. I have abused it like nobody's business and it keeps soldiering on and is actually shooting better than ever. Now that they have gone to a real stock, instead of the limp noodle they had been using, I think it's going to open a lot more doors for them. I wouldn't hesitate to get that latest version.
Tonight I got to work and had a nice suprise. All the replacement parts I wanted ordered to fix up our M16's had actaully been ordered and arrived...just when you give up on the supply guy he comes through...go figure ! I love opening a big box full of FA parts sitting around fixing guns =) I did replace all our extractor springs with the enhanced springs produced by Ken Elmore at SAW. These have really been the magic medicine for the black guns. I even put them in all my AR's. I highly recommend them for your consideration.
New math:
1500 rounds of loose 7.62x39 + 1 wooden ChiCom ammo crate with a loose bottom = 30 minutes of digging around in the mud to find all the rounds.
Take it easy all,
Joe S.
Joe S. <spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, CA, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 13:14:10 (ZULU)
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 14:46:59 (ZULU)
It seems there was an RI (Ranger Instructor) that was looking to make a little extra money between classes. After spending his last wedding anniversary neck deep in the swamps with Ranger students, he was determined to do something extra special for his wife this year.
Setting up a stand along the coast near Ft. Walton Beach, he was thrilled when a tourist walking by stopped to admire one of his alligator teeth necklaces.
When the tourist exclaimed that pearl necklaces down the street were less than half the price of his necklaces, he replied, "Lady, anyone can open an oyster."
Hoooah!
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 14:46:59 (ZULU)
Back from Shot Show. Had damm fine time. Met lots of great guys. Really pissed because no matter where I went I missed Col. Chandler. Maybe next year. That damm Kevin had me laughing all the time. Brian insane, well he is just that and good to go at the same time. Another one of the good guys.
Met a bunch of you and did not find one of you I did not instantly like.
Only true thing that seemed wrong was looking at Sage Int's obvious to me a copy of Mike Rocks modified M14. I said to the guy at Sage that it looked like the same rifle. His reply was "Only thing different is we have a one pice stock" I first saw the prototype last year from Mike and know he poured his heart and soul into the design. I hate it when others just tag along and copy. I buy from original guy. The one who thought it up. The one who knows why it works not the knock off guys. Just my opinion.
Hope everyone got home,fast and safe.
Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 16:37:32 (ZULU)
Dinger <ding556@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 17:41:31 (ZULU)
I regret to hear that someone f$%&## as)%@@@ copied Mike Rocks M14. I was at his shop a few months ago. Mike looked like a proud father showing off his first born while handing me his redesigned M14...
Like you said. I will stick to guy with the original idea and guts to make a new product.
I think we should start boycotting people like this. Make it perfectly clear that this will not be tolerated. Maybe start a page on this website or another site we can list these type of aggressions.
Mike Rock your reputation/products speak for themselves.
RANT MODE OFF.
bryan
bryan <bherman699@aol.com>
CA, - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 18:46:25 (ZULU)
Dinger <ding556@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 20:28:14 (ZULU)
Also having trouble keeping it from shooting loose, if you have any thoughts on that.
Thanks all.
Alexander Forbes <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 20:40:40 (ZULU)
Guys, forgive my ignorance here but what are we talking about? What type of configuration or modifications to this weapon have been made? Is this a variant of a DMR?
Confused Again, or Still...
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 20:44:08 (ZULU)
If you paid by credit card, file a dispute with the card company - ASAP. As much as I don't like credit cards, this is one real benefit to them. They can - and do - withold payment to the seller until the dispute is resolved. It is the reason I shy away from sellers who refuse to take plastic, or PayPal. I'll pay the 2% surcharge for plastic, since it is relatively cheap insurance.
Hope you get this cleared up to your satisfaction ASAP.
Mike
BMG Mike <bmgman@swbell.net>
- Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 21:21:37 (ZULU)
Pete L. - "kebab shop with rusty roof", that ain't code! got that straight away (maybe its a Brit thing??) like to hear the story though.
Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, - Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 21:41:26 (ZULU)
AAA Binos-if'n you paid through the mail, go to the Postal Inspectors at the Post Office. They take a real dim view of Postal Fraud. Paying by credit card can be a REAL advantage. I had a dispute some years back with a firm and after being unhappy with their "customer service" wrote a whine to MasterCard. MasterCard froze their account-didn't let them process any charges or receive funds- producing amazing customer satisfaction in short order.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 00:47:06 (ZULU)
Leupold makes the scope for the SPR..It's a 2.5x8 with side focus, turrets like the 3.5x10LR M3. Newest ones have illum. reticle. Elevation turret etched for 62gr bullet.
Good to see you all at SHOT.
outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Safely ensconced in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 02:24:03 (ZULU)
http://www.brokennewz.com/worldnews/frenchgermanagain.asp
Semper Fi,
Wuzz
Wuzzagrunt <t1_of_2@hotmail.com>
NY, NY, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 02:41:18 (ZULU)
Alexander
Alexander <altona@thegrid.net>
Garnerville, Nevada, - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 03:03:37 (ZULU)
MJ <montereyjack@ix.netcom.com>
monterey by the bay, Ca, USofA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 04:23:53 (ZULU)
IMHO you'll never get a single point scope mount to hold a reliable zero on an M1A. Two point mounts have been made to work, and three point mounts are even better. If yours is aluminum and not steel you've got even more strikes against you. You can't skimp here! Check out the archives for details.
I've had three of these rifles (still have two) and have friends who scope theirs as well. I can tell you from experience that the very expensive and almost impossible to find BPT (Brookfield) mount and its near twin the Smith Enterprises mount will work without a hitch. The ARMS is also excellent, but you may have some scope mounting issues (depending on what you're using) and it may be too low for a good iron sight picture. Also, you won't get a proper cheek weld without some kind of addition to the comb of the standard style stock, with any scope-mount combination.
HTH, ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 05:32:49 (ZULU)
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1045510848273&p=1012571727088
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 06:04:02 (ZULU)
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordian".
and in the news this morning:
Subject: The French have come through!
PARIS-In a stunning reversal of policy, French President Jacques Chirac
announced today that the French government will be supporting the 'War on
Terror' after all.
Five hundred soldiers from the elite Battalion du Specialistes
d'Abandonnement (Surrender Specialists) of France's vaunted Armees de la
Terre are preparing for movement to Iraq, where they will advise the Iraqi
Republican Guards on the protocol of their upcoming surrender to American
Armed Forces.
"It is important to be overbearingly haughty and insufferable when
surrendering," said Colonel Philippe Marie-Jeane Yves-Montand Gauloise du
Petite Pommes, commanding officer of the elite Surrender Specialists, who
has personally surrendered in countless battles dating back to Dien Bien Phu
in 1954. "We French are world masters at surrendering, n'est c'est pas? Not
like you arrogant Americans, who never surrender. Ha! I spit on your
American victories!"
President Chirac also announced that his government will be sending 3,000
advisors from the elite Force du Collaborateurs Francaise to assist the
Iraqis in avidly collaborating with the Americans, while pretending to be
part of a non-existent resistance movement.
OK. Joe S, don't wory about the anti US crap, its all the out of work dreadlocked long haired druggie commies that are protesting any way.
This Iraq thing is about sorting out the short sighted mistakes made by former governments, Brit, US, Froggy and German and a bunch of others, this needs done before its to late and the damn frogs and jerries are to pussy to get on and do it.
Bisley T, oh no, my code is broken, you don't work at Bletchley park do ya??
On a legal course today, works council stuff, makes a change i guess. Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 07:50:55 (ZULU)
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordian".
and in the news this morning:
Subject: The French have come through!
PARIS-In a stunning reversal of policy, French President Jacques Chirac
announced today that the French government will be supporting the 'War on
Terror' after all.
Five hundred soldiers from the elite Battalion du Specialistes
d'Abandonnement (Surrender Specialists) of France's vaunted Armees de la
Terre are preparing for movement to Iraq, where they will advise the Iraqi
Republican Guards on the protocol of their upcoming surrender to American
Armed Forces.
"It is important to be overbearingly haughty and insufferable when
surrendering," said Colonel Philippe Marie-Jeane Yves-Montand Gauloise du
Petite Pommes, commanding officer of the elite Surrender Specialists, who
has personally surrendered in countless battles dating back to Dien Bien Phu
in 1954. "We French are world masters at surrendering, n'est c'est pas? Not
like you arrogant Americans, who never surrender. Ha! I spit on your
American victories!"
President Chirac also announced that his government will be sending 3,000
advisors from the elite Force du Collaborateurs Francaise to assist the
Iraqis in avidly collaborating with the Americans, while pretending to be
part of a non-existent resistance movement.
OK. Joe S, don't wory about the anti US crap, its all the out of work dreadlocked long haired druggie commies that are protesting any way.
This Iraq thing is about sorting out the short sighted mistakes made by former governments, Brit, US, Froggy and German and a bunch of others, this needs done before its to late and the damn frogs and jerries are to pussy to get on and do it.
Bisley T, oh no, my code is broken, you don't work at Bletchley park do ya??
On a legal course today, works council stuff, makes a change i guess. Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 07:51:17 (ZULU)
Even with the double tap your post was funny as hell! This whole thing reminds me of my grandfather who was wounded at Omaha beach. He was a very stoic man, and never really complained. He did not care for the French much.... He did end up sharing many interesting stories with me before he passed away at the age of 86.
(unrelated tangent, but sort of French related..)
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 08:10:17 (ZULU)
On another note, I see France is making a habit of standing by despotic leaders. Mugabe had a warm welcome in Paris today.
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 13:00:05 (ZULU)
The complete quote (as I heard it): "Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you leave behind is a lot of useless, noisy baggage."
-Jed Babbin, former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense
Semper Fi,
Wuzz
Wuzzagrunt <t1_of_2@hotmail.com>
NY, NY, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 16:50:34 (ZULU)
sorry about the double tap, damn work puter.
Deaf Jon, now that was dumb, i remember finding out exactly how loud a boss system is when shooting at a crow out of a toyota pick up, damn !! didn't have the muzzle far enough out the window..
right I'm getting nagged about goint to the pub, so here goes Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 17:11:26 (ZULU)
1. Certain countries dont want us to invade Iraq
2. Certain countries dont want us to find any banned weapons in Iraq
3. Certain countries are always pissed because we sell arms to more Nato countries than they do. They have advanced technologies but not as advanced as ours.
4. Certain countries sell weapons all over the world to anyone they can.
5.Countries that can buy the best arms do.
6. Iraq has new technologies that came from countries that have advanced technologies.
7. Iraq can not buy legitimate technologies from countries that follow the rules.
8. Certain countries dont sell much military hardware if they follow the rules.
9. Certain countries dont want us to know whats in Iraq.
10. If we invaded Iraq we would know who has been selling them technology against the rules.
Now in ost investigations I would look to:
1. Who gains from selling to Iraq, because they are seconds string in arms industry?
2. Who gets a smack if the world finds out they are selling to Iraq, against the rules?
3. Who has nothing to gain if we invade Iraq?
4. Who has everything to lose if we invade Iraq?
5. Who is attempting to block our invading Iraq?
Well the answer to that will give you the Who What Why and Where?
Peter you cracked me up.
Undude/Mike
MikeMIller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 17:31:37 (ZULU)
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 17:43:42 (ZULU)
Alan, do you know if the Smith Enterprises scope mount has any trouble fitting non-US receivers? I seemed to have lucked out with one of the rare good FedOrd receivers (though to be fair, it has all USGI parts), and I really hope I don't have to swap out my rifle to get a scope mount to fit.
To anyone: how did the original one-point mounts work?
Deaf Jon: Count yourself lucky. I watched someone blow out his truck's windshield trying that stunt. Pricey sort of education for him. Pretty funny for the rest of us, though.
Treehugger
Treehugger (A.Forbes) <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 19:04:52 (ZULU)
One of the machinists has a passion for Mugabe, right between the crosshairs. Rhodesian bhoy he is.. F'n France...Pete, lead me away from the Unique stand when we're at IWA, I may end up in gaol...
Is there a deborah@aol.com here? didn't know the c&%t so I deleted their message instead of reading it. Can't be too careful these days..
'lito, where are ya..I gotsa question about chronys for ya if ya got a minute. Youse been diggin' out as well?
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 19:39:14 (ZULU)
JR: Regarding the Sunnis and Shi'ai (sorry, it involves letters we just don't have in our alphabet, and this program doesn't let me type in Arabic). Iraq invaded Iran on your basic, everyday powerplay; it was no more of a religious crusade than the USSR taking Czechoslovakia was a crusade for the liberation of the workers. The US encouraged Iraq, mostly bcause we were pissed at the Iranians for throwing us --and our oil interests-- out. Iran, rather understandably, fought back, fighting Iraq to a standstill in a truly ghastly campaign with atrocities committed on both sides. Since the ceasfire, Iran and Iraq have been at odds because Saddam has been busy slaughtering the Shi'ai minority in the south (most Iranians are Shi'ai, Saddam is a Sunni). *This* is the only part that's all about religion. Last I checked, however, Iran isn't out to convert by the sword. That's just not part of Islam's game. They might not like you --and may even kill you-- if you're not Muslim, but it isn't "convert or die". They know that that kind of faith is about as reliable as information gained under torture. And no, we're not in Saudi because it's the center of Islam, we're in Saudi because it has oil, because it has a ruling family in a very precarious position of power and is therefore tractible, and because it is central to the region. However, Saudi is also the powerbase for the ultra-conservative Wahhabi sect of Sunni Islam. To take Iraq would give us our own oil fields, a base of operations central to the region, and a tractible ally, without the baggage of Islamist extremism.
Remember also that the IRANIANS ARE NOT ARABS. Iranians are PERSIANS, and culturally very, very different. To lump them all in together is to say "Boar? Antelope? Hell, four legs and fur, I don't see why we can't stalk them the same way." Know what --or who-- you're stalking. I'm not saying they're any nicer, but Iranians have entirely different goals in that region than Iraqis. (Sorry, but my family has worked in Iran since the '30s. I haven't yet been there, but I grew up with first-hand tales around the dinner table.)
Undude/Mike: Please remember when using your investigative brain to consider the possibility that someone may want to go into a country to remove evidence, or to plant it, as well as to find it. Yes, the French will sell their grannies for a dime --if they can't find a higher bidder. Hell, they sold Israel its nuclear program, I won't bet that they haven't sold anything to Saddam. However, it is well known that the US sold Saddam most of his biological and chemical weapons, advised him how to use them, and stood by while he used them on his own people and, in the war against Iran, in our interests. There's a good chance we're going in there to cover our own asses.
Gotta do something about the situation, but it's bad all around. No good answers, either militarily or politically.
Sorry 'bout the counter-rant, but there were some issues sneaking up in the blind spots. Bad information and ignorance breed predictably short-sighted strategies. It would suck for any of us to get so carried away we didn't think before we pulled the trigger.
Treehugger
Treehugger (A.Forbes) <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 21:00:01 (ZULU)
Rod
Rod Hansen <rghansen@sprynet.com>
- Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 22:04:07 (ZULU)
"19 German, 10 British, four Swiss and two French concerns, as well as three companies from the Netherlands, Austria and the United States that supplied materials allegedly used in the Iraqi chemical weapons program through the 1980s."
“The list in Iraq's 1998/current chemical weapons declaration contains 31 "major suppliers", 14 from Germany. The 1996/current nuclear suppliers list has 62 company names on it, 33 from Germany. As Iraq claims that since 1991 it has not engaged in WMD production, the lists name no post-Gulf War suppliers.”
“The newspaper - believed to be the first to have access to the top-secret dossier - has written that the Iraqi declaration contains the names of 80 German firms, research laboratories and people, who are said to have helped Iraq develop its weapons program.”
These are just excerpts from articles I will be glad to provide to you if you like. MAYBE Germany and France DON'T want us to go in BECAUSE of what we will find!
drmarc
drmarc <drmarc@se-tel.com>
HillBilly, Kentucky, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 22:35:46 (ZULU)
I still can't respond to your emails about the SC rifle! Your server is rejecting my mail.
Am I the only one having a problem?
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USofA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 22:50:37 (ZULU)
The Smith mount, besides fitting the Springfield and the Smitn Ent. receivers will also fit the Chinese M-14S receivers made by Polytech and Norinco. I know this for a fact, been there - done that!
I see no reason why it won't fit yours. Give Smith a phone call to be sure. Following their instructions explicitly is the key to make their mounts work. My advice - mock it up the first time without snugging anything down. This will give you a feel for how it should work.
As far as the single-point mounts, they never worked very well. The ones that I'm familiar with used a large knurled thumbscrew that fit the threaded hole on the left side of the receiver (originally intended for a grenade launcher sight) and to raised ribs that keyed into female slots or grooves that were machined into the side of the receiver at the mounting hole, sort of an upside-down 'T'.
They kept loosening up in the field, and the shooters kept buggering up the knurled screw with pliers in an effort to keep it tight. Eventually, they filed or milled flats into two sides of the head of the thumbscrew to facilitate using a wrench to snug the thing up. They even resorted to welding the mount in place on the receiver in an attempt to keep it secured.
Now, with some decent mounts available, things are not nearly as bad as they used to be, but they still require caution when installing and periodic check-ups and maintenence in the field. One of the many reasons that the operators dig the SR-25 platform!
HTH, ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 23:16:28 (ZULU)
I remember watching the Rugby World Championship a few years ago. The logo on the French team uniforms was a chicken. I guess that explains it all.
Sharpshooters Supply;
Look at varminthunters.com and go to the link.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun <gotrektheslayer@comcast.net>
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 23:48:29 (ZULU)
Howdy! I just got caught up on the archives, and incidently, just got home. I have two more CONUS TDYs yet, and then the OCONUS gig. My replacement is inbound (yiiihaaaa).
Bolt,
I'll be in the Bragg area last week of March--you near there? If we can swing it, I'd be honored to buy you a cold one!
Neil Boortz posted that French Army Mag parody today--it is funny as hell.
For those of you wanting to get on with it in Iraq--look at it this way--I need the time to get there! Heheh. The trick is, once we go, securing the oil fields before they go boom while simultaneously decapitating any formation that poses a threat to the civies in-country. If we pull A and B off; we'll be awwwwright!
It's good to be home--if only for a few weeks...
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 00:49:27 (ZULU)
drmarc: Thanks for the info, and well presented. I'd love to see the complete version, but it looks as though my hypothesis stands refuted, as the scientists say. 'Course I'm always skeptical of "top-secret dossiers" conveniently leaked to the press, but that's the conspiracy theorist in me. Please buzz the reports my way, if you get the chance.
JR: Easy on! I wasn't trying to get nasty or say you don't know what you're talking about. I certainly wouldn't assume you were a "pud" with no experience. Yes, to religion is mixed up in everything in that part of the world, no question. And no, the Sunnis don't think too highly of the Shi'ai, and vice-versa. (Fascinating story behind that conflict, too, if you ever want to look it up.) As for Iran's expansionism, it isn't a patch on either Iraq's or Israel's, and if you can find me a nation in that part of the world that *isn't* expansionist, looking at the situation over the last fifty years, I'll buy you a box of your favorite ammo.
Your assessment of Iraq is also dead-on, by my research. Saddam is bad news, but he's bad news in a political power-hungry sort of way, not in a religious fervor. This is one reason why the whole "allied with AlQaeda" story just doesn't fly; Saddam doesn't like bin Laden because he doesn't like the threat the religious extremists pose his (relatively) secular tyranny. As for my talking about two different conflicts, you're right, and I apologise for confusing the issue. Our switching sides has completely undermined our credibiity in that region, but that wasn't the point I was then trying to make. Thanks for the catch.
That aside, do I think Iran is the largest possible threat on the screen over there? Not a chance. Without going into the whole Israeli/Palestinian conflict, I'd say the title of biggest threat goes to Saudi. They have an unstable government dependant equally on foreign (infidel) money and the whim of the increasingly extremist Wahhabi sect. Torn between two these two diametrically opposite paradigms, we are looking at a very high probability of regime collapse and rapidly spreading regional instability. The Wahhabis are far less tolerant than any sect of the Shi'ai --take note that all of the 9/11 hijackers were Wahhabis, many from Saudi, while none were Shi'ai or from Iran-- and they are *far* better funded than any group allied in any way to the Shi'ai regime in Iran. Saudi's population is young, rapidly expanding, discontented, and universally dependant on a crumbling, unstable state welfare system. The imams have the power to whip the populace into a frenzy, but the royal house does not have the socio-moral integrity or the financial resources to calm it. This young generation of impending fanatics has little access to free media, in particular the internet, which is controlled to a degree rivaled only by China; Iran has largely uncensored (except for porn, poor devils) access to the internet. We all know that a young, discontented population and the suppression of information is an explosive combination, and the Saudis are sitting on a powder keg.
Iran, by contrast, has lately (last 15 years) been positively reticent. I think smoking a couple of their oil rigs/missile platforms cooled off their anti-American ardour. They make a lot of noise, and they cheer on a lot of anti-Israeli groups, but they're not a tenth as dangerous as the Saudi Wahhabis. IMHO, lumping them into the "axis of evil" was an error. NK and Iraq, sure, I guess they qualify as being as "evil" as anybody else out there, but I could think of a few far better candidates for the third slot.
Whoops! Counter-ranting again. Sorry.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 01:45:06 (ZULU)
But, just wanted to pass a "Little" police humor,
POLICE # 1
While taking a routine vandalism report at an
elementary school, I was interrupted by a little girl about
six years old. Looking up and down at my uniform, she
asked, "Are you a cop?" "Yes," I answered and continued
writing the report. "My mother said if I ever needed help I
should ask the police. Is that right?" "Yes, that's right,"
I told her. "Well, then," she said as she extended her foot
toward me, "would you please tie my shoe?"
POLICE # 2
It was the end of the day when I parked my
police van in front of the station. As I gathered my
equipment, my K-9 partner, Jake, was barking, and I saw a
little boy staring in at me. "Is that a dog you got back
there?" he asked. "It sure is," I replied. Puzzled, the boy
looked at me and then towards the back of the van. Finally
he said, What'd he do?
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 03:14:21 (ZULU)
The Smith mount is a three point model. The center grenade launcher screw hole is used, but the mounting screw goes through an eccentric bushing that indexes with an enlarged hole in the mount itself to allow the user to have both latitude as to the dead center of the mount to threaded hole location and the inclination of the mount itself (to a small degree). This allows the user to level the scope mounting surface in relationship to the bore axis, and to put a little foward cant on the scope if it needs some to reach one thousand yards (ex. in the case of the Leupold VariX III 3.5-10 LR M3). The mount uses the horizontal groove in the receiver, but not the verticle one in order to facilitate this feature.
This mount also uses the clip slot adapter dovetail of the original rifle, employing a threaded dovetail replacement piece and a hex socket screw to pull the rear of the mount down against the clipslot adapter bridge. In the front section, there is another hexsocket screw that is threaded vertically through the scopemount and is tightened against the top of the front reciever ring in order to put tension on the mount, rendering it immoveable if properly installed. Just remember to recheck the torque on the mounting screws after the first ten to teenty shots. The M14 type rifles have a "funny" recoil due to the gas operation, and put different recoil forces to work on this rifle.
To answer your question about the SR-25, it is a .308 version of the AR-15 design and looks just like a scaled-up version of our main infantry rifle. It is produced by Knight's Armament of Vero Beach, FL,whom I believe hold the rights to the Stoner name. It is very similar in appearance to Armalite's AR-10. Our SF guys have been using a specially built (to their specs) version of the SR-25 for awhile with very good feedback coming home. These "new generation" gas guns offer many advantages over the old M14 platform, reliability and lack of extensive maintenance being just two of them.
HTH, ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 05:03:02 (ZULU)
WE, that is a colourfull collection of many countries helped Saddam in his race for leadershipb and cause the 1st Gulf war, especialy us brits, now the past policies of governments of several (if not all) leave much to be desired, we stopped short in Gulf 1 because leaving Saddam in power gave us a reason to have a strong military presence in the region,(despite massive uprisings by the Iraqi people wanting rid of Saddam at the time) we are protecting the poor saudies and every one else, despite the fact that they don't realy want us there. Now of couurse all these governments took advantage of the situation, the US and the Brits selling arms to Saudi and Kuwait etc, and the Froggy and Jerry selling technology to Iraq, a cosy situation, exept for the fact Saddam is a beer short of a six pack, he is now a seriouse threat, and has to be taken out, we have to sort out the situation in the Gulf that we helped cause, none of these past Governments is without fault, they all poured oil on the fire and pocketed the rich pickings, it is the responsibility of todays governments to ensure that the shit is shoveled up before it becomes a massive problem and we all step in it, unfortunately, Froggy land and Kraut land are not shapeing upto thier responsibilities.
Have you looked at it from that angle..
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 08:04:01 (ZULU)
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 13:47:19 (ZULU)
Laughed out loud at the dog in the back.
I confronted a crook once about his whereabouts. Swore to God he wasn't even in Port Arthur when the crime occurred.
"Honest Detective, I was in Pepiscola Beach, Florida". he hee.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 13:48:24 (ZULU)
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 13:51:48 (ZULU)
Both tendencies are disadvantages when it comes to foreign policy and we need to fix that.
To play on what BRogers wrote, I think we simply need to become more selfish and unpredictable when it comes to our dealings with foreign threats...Pandora's box if you will....
Simply put....we want your oil or natural resources or something else... just give us a good moral excuse to come take it...and NO, we don't give a crap what France thinks...I believe we have had quite enough talk from France...they continue to miss 60 years worth of good opportunities to just shut up.
Yep, that's us...bloodthirsty capitalist scum... now shut up and get back in your hole while we and our children live conspicuous, fruitful and happy lives.
medicjim <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 14:25:16 (ZULU)
I haven't been keeping up with the roster lately just read the post about the 300 WM being shot OUT OF THE VEHICLE. Figgured I would let you all know a real man (real dumb and real tired man) fires with all the window up. The ashtry was given a proper burial.
Dirty Steve, Out
Steve Dickerson <Ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, US of A - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 14:48:14 (ZULU)
Was hunting yotes one day with my normal parder and his 20 ish age son. The young fella was inexperienced but enthusiastic. His dad borrowed my 220 Swift since he'd only brought one gun from where they live. (the one with the hairy trigger of course). I cautioned but the kid was a leftie and the weather was cold and he was not particularly tough to it. We came over a hill and being on the outside passenger side of the Suburban I baled out and to take a running shot at a retreating dog. He made it over the hill and my pard yelled for me to get back in. Ole Yote bait has been to a lot of these deals and just slammed the door and hollered go get him!
The Burban was bouncing toward the top of the hill when a muffled boom ensued and dust came pouring out the half down windows. 2 Deafened Dog hunters bailed out one of each door as the burb slid to a stop. The hole in the transmission was the worst of the damage and a louder than normal due to the condition of the ears,lecture about working a rifle with gloves on was the best entertainment. The real cause was a left handed shooter trying to chamber a round with his right hand while a gloved hand was near a hair trigger. I try not to loan a rifle to somebody not familiar with it but shix happens.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 16:54:02 (ZULU)
Sorry bout all that, was not in my normal pleasant mood and went beyond the bounds..Maybe it was the thought of being countered by a man nicknamed treehugger...ha, too many lumberjacks in my family ..Wrong site to post that kinda stuff anyway. Group, feel free to roll up the newspapers...
out
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 17:03:45 (ZULU)
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 17:39:23 (ZULU)
My wife calls me up and says "turn to the history channel." The show was "SF: The Untold Stories." This one about "Tanks in the Wire." (Lang Vei just west of Kaison) Wife then says "isn't that the guy you all bought the bass boat for?" Answer, "yeah..."
Wife: "That must suck to see your buds on the 'history channel' all the damn time."
She is right on with that one...The "History" Channel fer chrissakes! Why don't they call it "contemporary events channel" or something????
Frankie Dooms, CSM (Ret). I learned a helluva lot from him, and it was good to see him again, if only through a screen. I hope he continues to catch bass, wherever he is now...Thanks dude, for the knowledge that you imparted...a few of us young'uns were listening!!!
We lost a goldmine of experience when the Vietnam Vets retired on us. Hell, they experienced war. Now, we have "vets" that have only (marginally) experienced "battle." If I have to explain the difference (or even argue)--then the point is forever lost to you. But for anyone who's been there--our experiences that we are passing down now are based on single event engagements--was it a damn good tactic or just dumb luck? The next firefight never came for validation. Look at the six-month rotations in A'stan. Figure it out, then leave. Next! Good luck and happy huntin'...geez. We never learn. But we have "combat patches" to prove it. Whatever "it" is...somehow "it" doesn't measure up to those "War" vets. FWIW.
Bitter Joe (Vinegar was already in use. LOL)
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 18:02:17 (ZULU)
Alan said "similar in appearance to the AR-10..." Yep, right up to but not including the price tag. The SR25 is made by some pretty proud folks. If I had the bent to get one of these Stoner-clones, I'd go with Armalite's. And have George work it, and buy a Gen II M3, and have enough left over to do it all again...
But who am I to talk? I own an M1A (M21) for no other reason than to have something I once used in uniform.
BTW-- I figure anyone coming here callin' hisself "treehugger" has gotta be one bad-ass dude. Kinda like Johny Cash, a boy named Sue...just don't ruin this image by eatin' granola or wearing Berkenstocks' around here, OK?
Peace,
Joe M.
(Bawwwwhawwhaw...peace is a lot like unemployment....)
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 18:25:23 (ZULU)
Good posts on the present situation in the Middle East. There isn't a "correct" answer to the issues you have raised. Even my very limited knowledge of the region is enough to make a reasonable determination that the history is way to complex to be black and white. That means your both right so shake hands and drive on. Oil/Money and Religion are both powerful motivators throughout the region. The operative word being POWER. While it is important to understand the historical context when formulating our foriegn policy I think you would both agree that we don't need to pinpoint the causes in order to justify dismanteling the current Iraqi government. In my opinion, commiting US combat troops should be based on one thing: our own national interests. They may at times be "selfish" but that need not make them immoral or unpredictable. It is in our national interest to safeguard the Iraqi oil fields. It is in our national interest to contain the further proliferation of WMDs. It is in our national interest to foster the establishment of a democratic government in Iraq (I don't know if this is a current objective or if a true democracy is even feasable amongst the Shiaittes (sp?) the Sunni and the Kurds). While it would be nice to go in with the political support of a UN resolution and ALL of our NATO "allies" these are just window dressing. Neither is required under our Constitution and my prediction is that our troops will be rolling through the desert sands of Iraq before the curtains are hung. Good luck to any of you headed into the breach.
Paul Martoccia <pmartoc@sprynet.com>
NJ, USA - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 18:46:44 (ZULU)
Just a link re-affirming what we believe:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31137
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 19:04:44 (ZULU)
You get my email the other day about the confirmation of the tickets and further pleas for assistance for my poor mate's SSG? Or you just avoiding me knowing that Wales is going to kick England's arse at the weekend ;-)
Jon
Jon Bearsdley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 21:01:12 (ZULU)
Pete L cannot respond to you about the SSG, because, like me, he is too busy laughing at your joke about the Welsh beating the English at the six nations.
Ha!
Bisley Tiger <steven@allery.demon.co.uk>
Banned-it Country, England, - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 21:26:33 (ZULU)
Marc: Great links you sent me. Sounds like the Germans have just a wee bit of expaining to do. I'm not entirely sold that they're stalling the war to cover things up --the cat's already out of the bag-- but I think they should be asked some very hard questions about the integrity of their commercial ethics.
JR: No apology necessary. It's a loaded topic, and I can see why my 'name' bugged you. If it makes you feel any better, it's not just because I'm one of the more "liberal" shooters among my friends, but mostly because I'm one of the few who hasn't traded in their nice, heavy wooden stock for a plastic wonder. I'm still lugging a 'tree' around to the range.
Pete: Very nice assessment of GW1 and subsequent policies. I could devil's advocate for why/why not go in shooting, but I don't think this is the right forum for that. I think you made a good hit with that post.
Brogers: Remember, Saddam didn't have anything to do with 9/11. Yes, I think bin Laden (bin Hidin'?) should be introduced to Mr. JHP, but let's not spray and pray. A little precision goes a long way, and the "bomb everything flat and start over" doesn't (in the end) do anything to reduce our enemies in that part of the world. That's what this gig is about, right? Reducing threats to us?
Well, at least this post is shorter than my last one.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 22:10:46 (ZULU)
Joe M.: LOL I don't think I quite qualify as "bad ass", but at least I don't wear Birkenstocks. Thanks for the tip on the SR25 and clones. More toys to save up for. Guess that's why I'm eating granola... *G*
Paul: You're absolutely right that there isn't any one "correct" answer. As for correct courses of action, in hindsight, we'll probably all be thought of as criminals anyway, no matter whether we start shooting or just back that SOB down and let the UN pluck his fangs. Good luck to all those over there in the sand, and may they all come home to a better reception than we gave back in '70.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 22:27:46 (ZULU)
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 23:11:31 (ZULU)
(TreeHugger)
The smith mount ain't a QD--unless maybe you forget to check the torques now and then. If you mount it yourself, use a plum line centered off the iron sights to adjust yaw in the mount. Your reciever may look straight, but guess what! Ignore the mounting instructions that say "release torque on the clip guide screw after initial torques on the side screw"--if you do this, the side mounting screw will put more yaw on that mount than 'yer scope has windage to compensate for!
(Hey Geoff--remember that fiasco? heheh--the damn thing turned like the blades on a helicopter!!!)
If yours ain't got the Nat'l Match hooded rear sight, then crank in about 400 yds of elevation to get a good datum reference on the plum line. Then just be anal in setting that mount as close to parallel as possible. I used calipers, a good torque wrench (70 in-lb will sheer the screw, 60 will loosen right up)...and blue locktite.
Man, you just gotta love those antiques...
Kush-
Single engine over water? Yeeechs. I was never fond of DLQs in Little Creek for that very reason. At least the waters are warm in Key West!
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 23:12:33 (ZULU)
Thank God; it was bad enough that I knew what they were! Heheh.
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 23:17:28 (ZULU)
Wuzzup with Martin Sheene protestin'? He sure didn't mind making a butt assed load of money off of Apocolypse Now a killin' and a carryin' on now did he? The worst terrorist attack IN HISTORY occurred RIGHT HERE a year and a half ago and they don't want to make waves.
What a national disgrace. These pricks would piss themselves if the real deal showed up at their house with terror on their mind.
Our forefathers would be sick to their stomachs.
Thank God for folks like Ken Melendy, Dave Liwanag, Rick Boucher, Joe Mahon and all you Vets. HOOYAH! you bastards. Proud to be among you on the blue side of the house.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 23:44:59 (ZULU)
At the risk of being accused of some kind of affiliation with Smith Ent. I'll finish my narrative with one last bit of info. While their mounting base is not by any stretch of the imagination a "quick release" design your scope can be quick release from the Smith base by virtue of a pair of ARMS throw-lever QR rings. The mount has a groove or tunnel down the center, giving you full use of your iron sights with or without the scope mounted.
Also, the mount is now available with the standard old Weaver style mounting rail - just like the BPT on the old M21 - or with a full Picatinny rail which will give you more latitude in mounting your scope. Both versions are otherwise identical.
Iraq and the Mid-East,
Just a few random thoughts. How can we trust Colin Powell's judgement since he was the chief architect of the GW1 pullout? Could the present cluster-f**k going on right now be in any way related to this administrations inability to get Bin Laden and destroy al-quaida, something like Klinton's bombing asprin factories to take the public spotlight away from a few illicit blow-jobs?
If we're gonna do this, why in the hell worry about what the leftist UN says, they're not going to go along with us anyway? We are being openly challenged by our former allies for control of the worlds economy with Russia riding their coattails. Turkey is blackmailing us for more aid money before they agree to allow our troops to use bases on their soil, and the rest of the Moslem world is sitting on the fence, waiting to see who blinks first. Meanwhile Saddam is arming Iraqs women and children to kill American troops in the streets of Baghdad. Didn't Harry S. Truman use two atomic bombs on Japan to avoid this kind of bloodbath? I figure that ten to twenty nuclear equipped Cruise Missles would make our statement without sacrificing our troops needlessly. And who the F**K cares if ANY of them will hate us? In case anybody hasn't noticed, they already do, and have demonstrably proven this Sept.11. They hate us and always will, some major European powers hate us and are very jealous of our position in the world. Russia will never forgive us for breaking down their society, and the radical Muslims will always hate us and dedicate their sons and daughters to our destruction. So who in the hell are we trying to kid, other than ourselves?
Had enough,
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Thursday, February 20, 2003, at 23:51:48 (ZULU)
Does D.D. Ross make a set of the Long rings 2 cross bolts, and 6 cap screws that are tall enough to let a 5.5-22 NXS clear a #7 or larger contour when mounted with a Badger Ord. base..
Also Which rings would you suggest D.D. Ross or Badger Ord.
Appreciate the info..
JEF
Jef Rice <rhysrifleworks@yahoo.com>
Wheatland, WY, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 00:43:48 (ZULU)
I can tell you if DD Ross makes a ring that'll work, but Badger certainly does,, so why bother with Anything else? Premier Reticle has great prices on Badger rings and bases, and customer service is second to none.
I personally think the Max 50's are overkill, at least they have been for me, but you have that option if you want 6 scews per ring cap, otherwise the standard style ring will workie just fine for whatever weight scope you decide to toss in there. Just MHO.
Joe M.,
Good to see you around mang ;)
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 01:59:14 (ZULU)
John
John <acehigh@insightbb.com>
B'town, IN, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 02:13:07 (ZULU)
Comin outta here, all multi engine birds in my future. If I don't get frogs (and I don't see why not) I got my eye on 53's. 3 engines churning out 12,000+ SHP. Talk about beating the air into submission. Oh well, off to prep for a GPS/ILS hop.
Later Hawgs.
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 03:09:40 (ZULU)
Joe M.: Misspelling "Birkenstocks" is a point in your favor. Sounds like mounting a Smith is a fairly involved operation --and NOT a QD system. (Unless I bugger it up, which is always a strong possibility.) Thanks for the benefit of your experience. Now I just need to save up the cash for the mount itself.
Brogers: Good point, and taken to heart. The flip side being that we will always be a target for someone.
I just hope our politicians don't bugger this up. Seems like every time we send in our military to fix something, the politicos drop the ball. I'm getting a little sick of US blood being spilled because whatever crook-de-jour is in the Oval Office doesn't want to hold up his end of the bargain and make our military efforts count. Our troops are not expendable "foreign policy tokens", they are Americans.
I'm going to shut up on the political commentary now. I can see both sides way too easily, so I could well get in trouble here. Besides, someone seems to be talking shooting instead of politics.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 04:53:02 (ZULU)
>>> and may they all come home to a better reception than we gave back in '70 <<<
Amen.
jc
jc <jcopelan@midsouth.rr.com>
Cordova, TN, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 06:55:43 (ZULU)
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/20/us.phil.combat/index.html
We will be able to publicly go hunt down and actively neutralize the terrorists that have been causing all the trouble down in PI. Good hunting, be safe, and return quickly!!
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
CA, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 08:03:54 (ZULU)
Altama Desert Tan Boots for $99.95 - http://www.altama.com/milspec/4156.htm
Or Danner Desert Acadia 8" for $225.00 - http://www.danner.com/products.asp?catid=12&prodid=1927
I have 3 pr of danner "Go-Devil" or boots and like them pretty well but I just wanted to get some input on the pros and cons of these boots.
These aren't the same boots (Altamas) that were reported to be shedding their soles in A'stan were they?
Or are there other boots that will pass as issue that I should be looking into?
If you guys have any input I'd appreciate it, I have to get my order in pretty quick to get the boots in time.
Thanks,
DA
Dakota Aviator <dakotaaviator@hotmail.com>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 08:30:48 (ZULU)
Andy and I use Danner Acadias most of the time but when the weather turns warm or we travel to the Southwest we change out to the Desert Tan boots from Altama. FWIW, we always wear insoles. They make a big difference. Socks are an important part of the equation too.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 12:55:36 (ZULU)
Jon
Jon Beardsley <jon@sgreadan.fsnet.co.uk>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 14:30:49 (ZULU)
TH; Yes we will always have people who want to bury us! That's why we have the force to deal with it. I'm reminded of a kid once who came from a large town and moved to our little country school. He was a gang leader and had been sent to the country "cause he was so bad!". I put up with his brandishing brass knuckles and switch blades and ordering everyone around for a couple of weeks. He waved em in my face one day and took my Hamburger and stepped on it. Today he would still be counted a good friend and would tell you that episode behind the hamburger joint was the best lesson he ever had.
Some of my best friends started out as enemies. But first you got to get their complete respect. (that was the last fight I ever had at that school by the way).
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 14:33:11 (ZULU)
I saw Brian Shul speak once (at the NAS Jax Naval Hospital Christmas
Ball). He spoke that day about the value of compassion in medicine. He talked about how he was so horribly burned and disfigured that even the docs and the nurses turned away from him, and about how the human attention meant so much to him at that point that he would resort to trickery to try and engage the medical staff. The example he gave was of the time he had someone make a large sign that said "kisses $1" which was then placed next to his bed. The smiles that folks flashed after reading the sign was enough to keep him going. It took him a year to get out of the hospital and yet he
went on to fly A-7s, A-10s, and finally the SR-71. If you're a fan of
Naval Aviation and the Blue Angels and you don't own a copy of his photo album "Blue Angels a Portrait in Gold" you are missing out on some of the best photographs ever taken of the world's best formation aerobatic team. At any rate the attached speech by Brian is right on and should be posted on every bulletin board.
John Taber, Lt.Col., U.S. Army Veterinary Corps, Fellow Q.B., and
Aerobatic pilot extraordinaire
______________________________________________
Brian Shul's Chico Rally Address: October
Thank you for the opportunity to address this rally today. It is not often that a fighter pilot is asked to be the keynote speaker. There is a rumor that they are unable to put two sentences together inherently. I'd like to dispel that rumor today by saying that I can do that, and in fact that I have written several books. I always wanted to be an author, and I ARE one now.
I'm a pretty lucky person really. I'm like the little boy who tells his father that when he grows up he wants to be a jet pilot, and his father replies, "Sorry son, you can't do both." I made that choice a long time ago and flew the jets. I was fortunate to live my dream, and then some. I survived something I shouldn't have, and today, tell people that I am 28 years old, as it has been that long since I was released from the hospital.
It was like I received a second life, and in the past 28 years, I have
gotten to see and do much, so much that I would not have thought possible. Returning to fly jets in the Air Force, flying the SR-71 on spy missions, spending a year with the Blue Angels, running my own photo studio ... and so much more. And now, seeing our country attacked in such a heinous way. Some of you here today have heard me speak before, and know that I enjoy sharing my aviation slide show. I have brought no slides to show you, as I feel compelled today, to address different issues concerning this very difficult time in our nation's history.
I stand before you today, not as some famous person, or war hero. I am far from that. You know, they say a good landing is one you can walk away from, and a really great one is when you can use the airplane again. Well, I did neither . and I speak to you to today as simply a fellow American citizen. Like you, I was horrified at the events of September 11th. But I was not totally surprised that such a thing could happen, or that there were people in the world who would perpetrate such deeds, willingly, against us. Having sat through many classified briefings while in the Air Force, I was all too aware of the threat, and I can assure you, it has always been there in one
form or another. And those of you who have served in the defense of this nation, know all too well the response that is needed.
In every fighter squadron I was in, there was a saying that we knew to be true, that said, when there was a true enemy, you negotiate with that enemy with your knee in his chest and your knife at his throat. Many people are unfamiliar with this way of thinking, and shrink from its ramifications. War is such a messy business, and there are many who want no part of it, but rush to bask in the security blanket of its victory. I spent an entire military career fighting Communism, and was very proud to do so. We won that war, we beat one of the worst scourges to humankind the world has known. But it took a great effort, over many years of sustained vigilance and much sacrifice by so many whose names you will never know. And perhaps our nation, so weary from so long a cold war, relaxed too much
and felt the world was a safer place with the demise of the Soviet Union. We indulged ourselves in our own lives, and gave little thought to the threats to our national security.
You know, normally my talks are laced with numerous jokes as I share my stories, but I have very few jokes to tell this afternoon. These murdering fanatics came into our land, lived amongst our people, flew on our planes, crashed them into our buildings, and killed thousands of our citizens. And no where along their gruesome path were they questioned or stopped. The joke is on us. We allowed this country to become soft. We shouldn't really be too surprised that this could happen. Did we really think that we could keep electing officials who put self above nation and this would make us stronger? Did we really think that a strong economy adequately replaced a strong intelligence community? Did we imagine that a President who practically gave away the store on his watch, was insuring national security? While our country was mired in the wasted excess of a White House sex scandal, the drums of war beat loudly in foreign lands, and we were deaf. Our response was to give the man two terms in office, and even then barely half the American public exercised their right to vote.
We have only ourselves to blame. Our elected officials are merely a
reflection of our own values and what we deem important.
Did we not realize that America had become a laughing stock around the
world? We had lost credibility, even amongst our allies. To our enemies we had no resolve. We made a lot of money, watched a lot of TV, and understood little about what was happening beyond our shores. We were, simply, an easy target.
But we are a country awakened now. We have been attacked in our homeland. We have now felt the reality of what an unstable and dangerous world it truly is. And still, in the face of this unprecedented carnage in our most prominent city, there are those who choose to take this opportunity to protest, and even burn the flag.
If I were the regents or alumni of certain large universities in this
county, I would be embarrassed to be producing students of such ignorance and naive notions. Like mindless sheep, they march with painted faces and trite sayings on signs, blissfully ignorant of the world they live in, and the system that protects them, hoping maybe to make the evening news. Perhaps if they had spent more time in class they would have learned that those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it. They might have learned that all it takes for evil to succeed in the world, is for good people to stand by and do nothing. If they had simply gone back in history as recently as the Viet Nam War, they would have learned that an enemy that knows it can never defeat us militarily, will persist as long as there is dissension and disruption in our land. Their ignorance can be understood, as their young empty minds have been filled with the rewritten history tripe that tenured leftist professors can spew out with no fear of removal. But the unwitting aid they provide the enemy, in disrupting the national resolve, is unforgivable.
I think this is a wonderful country, though, that gives everyone their voice of dissension. I am all for people expressing their views publicly because it makes it much easier for us to identify the truly foolish, and to know who cannot be counted on in times of crisis. These are the weak and cowardly who, when the enemy is crashing through the front door, will cower in the back room, counting on better men than themselves to make and keep them free. Well, the enemy is at our front door, and isn't it interesting those who cry loudest and most often for their rights, are usually those
least willing to defend it.
I heard a student on TV the other day say that this war just wasn't in his plans and he would simply head to Canada if a draft occurred. Just wasn't in his plans. I wonder what plans the young men at the beaches of Normandy had that they never got to live. I wonder if it was in the plans of 19-year-old boys in Viet Nam to lie dying in a jungle far from home. I guess the men and women at Pearl Harbor one morning had their plans slightly rearranged too.
Gee, I hope we haven't inconvenienced this student. Those people in the World Trade Center have no more plans. It is up to us to have a plan now. And it isn't going to be easy. Who ever said it would? Just what part of our history spoke of how easy it was to form a free nation? It has never been easy and has always required vigilance and sacrifice, and sometimes war, to preserve this union. If it were easy, everyone would have done it. But no one else has, and we stand alone as the most unique country on earth.
And isn't it amazing that we have spent a generation stamping God out of our schools and government, and now as a nation, have collectively turned to God in memorial services, prayer vigils and churches around this country. I am also very disturbed to hear that there are people in this country, at this particular time, who feel it inappropriate to wear the flag on their lapel because they are on the news or in a public job, and school officials who want to remove pro-American stickers so as not to offend foreign students. Well, I am offended that these people call themselves Americans.
I am offended that innocent people were killed in a mass attack of
unthinkable proportions. And I am offended at listening to TV broadcasters speak to me condescendingly, with a bias that screams of their drowning in a cesspool of political correctness. I pity the person who thinks they are going to remove this flag from my lapel. This flag of ours is the symbol of all that is good about this country.
America is an idea. It is an idea lived, and fought for, by a people. We are America, and this is our symbol. We are imperfect in many ways, but we continue to strive toward the ideal our forefathers laid down for us over 225 years ago. I could never imagine desecrating that symbol. Perhaps there are many people in this nation who have never been abroad, or in harms way, and seen the flag upon their return. Those poor souls can never know the deep pride and honor one feels to see it wave, to know that there is still a good ol' USA. With all our warts we are still the greatest nation on earth, and the flag is the most powerful symbol of that greatness.
When I was in grade school, we used to say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning. It is something I never forgot. I wonder how many children even know that pledge today. This flag is our history, our dreams, our accomplishments, indelibly expressed in bright red, white, and blue. This flag was carried in our Revolutionary War, although it had many less stars. But it persevered and evolved throughout a war we had no right to believe we could win. But we
did, and built a country around it. This flag, tattered and battle worn, waved proudly from the mast, as John Paul Jones showed the enemy what true resolve was. This banner was raised by the hands of brave men on a godforsaken island called Iwo Jima, and became a part of the most famous photo of the 20th Century. Those men are all dead now, but their legacy lives on in the Marine Memorial in Washington, DC.
Those of you who have seen it will recall that inscribed within the stone monument are the words - When Uncommon Valor Was A Common Virtue - I don't believe you'll see the words, "it was easy," anywhere on it. This flag has even been to the moon, planted there for all time by men with a vision, and the courage to see it through.
I personally know what it is to see the flag, and feel something deep
inside that makes you feel you are a part of something much bigger than yourself. Laying in a hospital bed, I can vividly recall looking out the only window in the room and on Sundays, seeing that big garrison flag flying proudly in the breeze. It filled the entire window, and filled my heart with a motivation that helped me leave that bed, and enabled me to be standing here today. And many years later, while fighting another terrorist over Libya, my backseater and I outraced Khaddafi's missiles in our SR-71 as we headed for the Mediterranean, and I can still clearly see that American flag patch on the shoulder of my space suit, staring at me in the rear view mirror as we headed west, and it was a good feeling. Now don't ask me why we had rear view mirrors in the world's fastest jet, I can assure you, no one was gaining on us that day.
I am so happy to see so many flags out here today. Long may it wave.
History will judge us. How we confront this chapter of American history will be important for the future of this great nation. This will be a war like none other we have endured. The combatants will not just be the soldier on the battlefront, but will be fought by us the citizens. We are on the battlefield now; the war has been brought to us. We will determine the outcome of this war by how well we remain vigilant, how patient we are with tightened security, how well we support the economy, and most importantly, in the resolve we show the enemy. There are some things worth fighting for, and this country is one of them.
I pray for our leaders at this time. In the Pacific, during WW II, Admiral Bull Halsey said, "There are no great men, just great circumstances, and how they handle those circumstances will determine the outcome of history." Our future and the future of coming generations are in our hands. Wars are not won just on military fronts, but by the resolve of the people. We must remain tenaciously strong in the pursuit of this enemy that threatens free people everywhere.
I am encouraged that we will win this war. Even before the first shot was finished being fired, there were brave Americans on Flight 93, fighting back. These people were the first true heroes of this conflict, and gave their lives to save their fellow countrymen.
This nation, this melting pot of humanity, this free republic, must be
preserved. This idea that is America is important enough to be defended. Fought for. Even die for. The enemy fears what you have, for if their people ever become liberated into a free society, tyrannical dictatorships will cease and he will lose power.
How can they ever understand this country of ours, so self-indulgent and diverse, yet when attacked, so united in the defense of its principals? This is the greatest country in the world because brave people sacrificed to make it that way. We are a collective mix of greatness and greed, hi-tech and heartland. We are the country of Mickey Mouse and Mickey Mantle; from John Smith and Pocahontas to John Glen and an Atlas booster; from Charles Lindbergh to Charley Brown; from Moby Dick to Microsoft; we are a nation that went from Kitty Hawk to Tranquility Base in less than 70 years; we are rock and roll, and the Bill of Rights; we are where everyone else wants to be, the greatest nation in the world.
The enemy does not understand the dichotomy of our society, but they
should understand this; we will bandage our wounds, we will bury our dead; and then we will come for you.......and we will destroy you and all you stand for.
I read this quote recently and would like to share it with you: We are
pressed on every side, but not crushed, Perplexed, but not in despair,
Persecuted, but not abandoned, Struck down, but not destroyed. That is from II Corinthians. Not too long ago it would have been
politically incorrect to quote from the Bible. I am so happy to be
politically INCORRECT. And I am so proud to be an American.
Thank you all for coming out today and showing your support for your
government, and your nation. You are the true patriots, you are the
soldiers of this war, you are the strength of America.
Brian Shul
--
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 14:54:57 (ZULU)
The Danners look good and I know Danners work but the 125$ difference would allow me to buy some other gear.
(I have never owned or worn a pair of Altamas)
Thanks,
DA
Dakota Aviator <dakotaaviator@hotmail.com>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 16:08:49 (ZULU)
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 17:36:05 (ZULU)
AMEN and thank you SIR for sharing that. I'm not familiar with the gentleman; but I'm going to buy and read his books even if he is an Air Force type. ;o)
Thanks again,
Doc (An old Naval Aviator)
Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 17:39:43 (ZULU)
The ARMS #22 throwlever rings are IMHO the best QR rings available at this time. They will usually return to about 1/2 MOA as long as their mechanism doesn't loosen up from the normal wear of constant removal and reinstallation. Face it, wherever there are moving parts, there will be some wear. I'd say that for the average rifleman they'll probably last a lifetime. I use this identical throwlever system on ARMS QR bases with an ACOG TA01NSN on an M4 SOPMOD carbine, and on an SPR with a B&L Tac 10 scope.
Sierra Echo (well known to some of us) has been using the QR rings first on his M21 and later on his M25 for years without a complaint that I've ever heard, and he shoots a lot. I'm positive that other Roster Rats are also using them. You can get them from MSTN or from MSP. I've done business with both, they're good people!
If for some reason you ever get tired of using the name "Treehugger", I was thinking that you could always tag yourself as "Woodstock" considering how you got the name;-))
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 18:06:05 (ZULU)
Thanks for the input on the tripods. I think I am going to go with the manfrotto from Center Mass when I free up some money. New family room for the house is drawing hard on the household funds.
If you are looking for a cheap short tripod a friend of mine showed me one he got from CDNN. It is a Tasco Heavy Duty Mirco Adjustable tripod. It is sturdy and made of almost all metal. The head has adjustment knobs for windage and elevation. This is a big plus with the spotting scope. It is to low for a rifle rest except in the prone position and it only cost $19.99 plus shipping (closeout I think). For that price I am going to order one.
Dakota Aviator, Major Surplus and Survival sells the Altama Desert boot and have them on sale for $59.95. I am not sure if it is the milspec version but I think it is.
Is there anyone on the roster that was in PSYOPS and still has access to FM's and TM's. I have lost one of my current FM's and I am wanting to replace it. Drop me an e-mail off line if you may be able to help out.
I just finished digging out from the snow storm and now we are going to get rain. Time to put up the shovel and break out the life raft.
I am never going to get to the range.
Keith <keith37f20@excite.com>
North Central , WV, - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 18:13:47 (ZULU)
That's a roger. I believe they'll even sell those books to a flyin' squid if he's got the cash and a cosigner;-))
An old Airforce type,
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 18:15:16 (ZULU)
Treehugger, we have already been in Iraq and would have no need to go back to remove anything. Nice therory though. I stand by my original ideas.
Mike Miller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
CA, - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 18:52:40 (ZULU)
HDR <hprudisell@aol.com>
OK, - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 18:55:36 (ZULU)
The French Government have today announced,that as of March 1st Paris will cease to be the Capital city of France,Taking its place will be Toulouse,(pronounced "to loose"), it is felt that this change and the name of the new Capital is more in keeping with French character and traditions.
Jon B, not ignoring you mate, just busy as hell, training course this week on working laws, plus all the admin for the team and an odd shift or two, plus some other stuff, i just heared that our Brownells shipment got held up by the SS i mean customs, i'll have to talk my way out of getting stuffed for the tax.
Tree dude, i'm all for going in and kicking ass, sooner the better.
Brian Sain, you owe me beer buddy but i can't remember anything about owed packages, i'll take all you send me gladly. and i'm working on another for you too.
Right guys, got some interesting news to announce. I got an email from Michael Stukenkemper, the propriotor of SWS 2000 Gmbh. www.sws2000.de and i've been exchangeing some ideas with him ever since, he is going to let me "play"with an SWS2000, and i shall thoroughly test it and write a report/artikle on its performance, Tis interesting and inovative sniper weapon system is built on a propriatory action that incorporates an integral 20 moa inclined picatinny rail, it has user change barrel / caliber facility and can be had in all calibers from 223 to 338 lap mag, McMillan stock, Lothar Walther barrels, any way, full specs will follow as will performance characteristiks. The website is a bit short on pics but that will be adjusted asap. I'm pretty excited about this, should be fun.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 19:41:22 (ZULU)
I'm really getting wrapped around the axle about the scope angle. The receiver is the same as the Rem. 700 short action, but needs the Rem. Long action mount to fit. That was weird. Short of shimming the rear of the Badger mount, what can I do to correct the elevation problem? I've only got 28 min. of elevation left on the turret, and that's not going to get me to a thousand. Any ideas would be appreciated. I still can't get my email address changed on this thing, so if you have any answers, get me at gthammer@hotmail.com. Thanx.
Charles S. Hunt <dpms223@aol.com>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 21:05:55 (ZULU)
MARIUS:: HOW GOES THE DOCTORATE?????
MK4::DISSERTATION DULY NOTED!!!
macgregor
MACGREGOR <brownc@kos.net>
an AMERICANadian up here in CANADIA DESPITE THEM , - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 21:33:47 (ZULU)
My suggestion since you have a Badger Base installed and I will assume that it fits fine on the receiver is to pick up a set of Burris Signature/Posi-Align Zee rings. They come in various heights for 1" and high for 30mm. The Signature rings have polymer inserts that you can get with off-set halves, -5, +5 and -10, +10 but standard inserts are 0, 0. Depending on the packaging they will either come with only the 0, 0 set or all three. Since you already have the tapered base you might want to start out with the insert set (rear - top -5, bottom +5, front - top 0, bottom 0) which would give you an additional 5 degrees forward cant on the scope. By shifting the position of the inserts you can even adjust the windage to set mechanical zero by rotating the inserts left or right as necessary. The other neat part about these rings is they don't slip or mar the scope. They are not a hardened tactical ring but they have held up well for me over the years.
Good Luck,
P.S.- You will usually have to look around for them unless you have a shop that carries the Burris line and they will run about $30 - $45 a set depending on the size and height. I just checked and Midway and Brownell's carry them.
***** Updated *****
My numbers above may be misleading and I don't want to do that so I found this on Burris' site:
SIGNATURE RINGS with the POS-ALIGN Offset Insert Kit is the cure ( not just a band-aid ) for all your scope-to-receiver-to-bore alignment problems . The POS-ALIGN Offset Inserts eliminate the need to shim bases, optimize optical performance, allow windage and elevation adjustments not normally possible with any style of scope rings and allow maximum in-the-field adjustments . The inserts are available in +/- .005, +/- .010 and +/- .020 . ( Note : each ring will require both the "+" and "-" insert of the same value .)
Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 21:44:05 (ZULU)
As Alan said, the ARMS QD rings are good to go. I had been told that they would reattach sub moa. But I'm pretty sure it's better than that. I've been using them for over a year on an SR-25 and absolutely love them.
Dakota,
I just ordered a pair of the Danner Desert Arcadias. They are built great. But they seem to size a little narrow. I think I'm going to have to send these back and order a wider size. And then hope my feet don't slip around in them. Unless someone else can tell me it's better to wait and try to break them in. Oh, Botachtactical had them on sale for $159. Or you can find them for $189 from Arizona Tactical and some other places. They seem to size a little funny so if you can find them at an Army/Navy surplus store and try them on first it might be best.
To all
I just received the palm pilot ATrag2P ballistic software from
Horus Vision. This seems to be pretty good stuff. Very flexible and programmable. I think this could be a real asset out in the field. Has anyone tried it yet? Anyway I'm going to give it a shot and see how it holds up.
John Levens
John Levens <SirSaxII@aol.com>
Ft. Worth, TX, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 22:04:40 (ZULU)
I think that Byron has the right idea for you re: the Burris Signature Z rings and offset inserts.
Another thing comes to mind, however. I seem to remember that someone posted a question about certain production runs of the Remington 700 action having the rear receiver ring (bridge) made lower than the front. This wasn't too long ago. Either George or Marty (I suffer from CRS Disease and can't remember which) posted that they would check into it and report back to the DR. I can't recall seeing any more about it. Now it's got my curiosity tickled. Anybody remember this or have any knowledge to add?
ALAN
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
Palisade, Colorado, USA - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 22:13:12 (ZULU)
Great post
John Levens,
They'll break in a little. If they're really tight to the pointof being uncomfortable, not just snug, get a wider size and use a beefier insole to take care of any slop you might have. My Acadias are about 10 years old and still going strong, great boots.
Any one know if anyone will do a ranging reticle on an M-49 spotting scope. I love the one I have, it's in great shape, but a ranging reticle would be great.
Well, rain today, hopefully no rain tomorrow for the range
"For those who fight for it, life has a special flavor the protected never know"
Kush out
Kush <matchking175@hotmail.com>
P-cola, Fl, - Friday, February 21, 2003, at 22:55:53 (ZULU)
I had that same problem--subtracted elevation via the dang reciever--on my boy's model seven. Chalk it up to Remmy's diligent quality control? Or is it a new contour on the recievers? Whatever it was, my 2-7 VXII couldn't adjust enough up; and my 3-9 VXII tactical used all of the available elevation to get zeroed (100yds).
Those zee's are good to go. I have a set on my M21, and they are holding just fine (someone mentioned the weird recoil pulse...:)).
I finally joined the Mouse-gun-teers' club today...picked up a pre-ban CAR-15 kinda-clone. Heavier contour barrel and 1:9" twist with the A1 upper. Otherwise, just like the carbines from the eighties. Nostalgia again. I ordered it six weeks ago-but travels prevented my picking it up. Gee, just in time to break it in and preserve/ store it for my next trip...:((
Brian,
I fear you will see more action than those of us overseas...and that thought is unsettling. My wife is a patrol officer. I hate thinking the home front is yet another battle line--but there it is. No longer a question of "if," it is a question of "when." You and those like you have my prayers for your safety--and my hopes for decisive ends to any and all threats. Terroristus interruptus. Heheh. Thanks to you and your compadres for keeping my kids safe. I honestly believe that is how it is. And, God bless the LEOs of this country! To those who would sleep peacefully in their beds tonight--I ask, "consider why?"
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Friday, February 21, 2003, at 23:38:09 (ZULU)
M1A mounts- I just got a Smith mount in a wheel deal trade. I had never tried it before but it seems alright. I did the mounting using the plub line as mentioned. I must have gotten lucky, I got it right by the ole naked eye the first time. I have used the ARMS mount in the past and it's a good deal too. Either would do you right. The ARMS rings are a good deal too. I've had them on my AR10T (which I hope to get to Mr. George sooner rather than later) for a while and never thought about swapping them out. Plus if you get them and don't like them resale is pretty good and they make great accesory mounts for surefire lights, etc.
Boots- I'm a Danner guy for the most part (black at work desert for play). So far they size true to the sizer thing at a shoe store for me and they are consistent in size from one pair to another. The Belleville boots are also good boots and I have had good luck with them. Altima boots really hurt my feet and didn't have the suppoort I like so I off-loaded them ASAP. I didn't have them long enough to tell you about durability. The Danner and Belleville have a good life span and work well for me in these S/W hills and deserts.
Howa- Well it sounds like that stick is just wrecked and not worth keeping, I'll trade you my old 10-22 for it and I'll even throw in a BB gun scope =) I had the same problem after I lopped the barrel down on my 110FP. A 20 taper base brought it right back to where it worked fine. Don't know whats up with yours. My Howa (hunting taper bbl) has a Loopy base/rings and never had the problem. I'd be interested in knowing what caused it too.
Stay safe,
Joe S.
Joe S. <Spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, SoCal, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 00:14:42 (ZULU)
I'll toss in my $ 0.02.
I have both the Altamas & The Danner Ft Lewis models.
The Altamas are a year or so old, worn mainly when it's hot.
The Danners are about 7 years old, been re-soled 3 times and are ready for another. Damn things won't wear out. Just get more comfortable. I wear em every day I don't have the jackboots on(cycle duty). They are insulated & are good for all but the hottest weather. Takin care of em is worth every minute used. Given their lifespan, they are well worth the approx 2 bills. Altamas were about 70 bucks, maybe a bit less. Apples & oranges. Both do their jobs. Got a pair of Arcadias too, bought em off a Seal cheap. They're ok but can't beat the Ft Lewis models though. IMHO
Kinds like having the 308 for snipin 'organic' targets & having a 50 for 'hard ' targets.
Have been much better off over the years spending a few more $$ on the feet than other areas.
Mk4, Fantastic piece from Mr Shul.
Have a good weekend gents,
Deputy Doug
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K Town, WI, US of Good ol' A - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 00:26:21 (ZULU)
The daily grind for these is work on cellular sites. A lot of odd angle standing and heavy bending from kneeling, corregated steel, chat rock, concrete work, groiund excavation etc. Of course,, my heavy frame isn't helping matters. ;))
If you have opportunity to resupply every 4 or 5 months, I'd say the Altima will do you right for a hot weather boot, but if you're in it for the long haul, I'd spend the extra cash. My Mil issue vulcanized soled leather boots have lasted upwards of 10 years with resoles. The Altima may go to 1 year, but I doubt it.
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 00:39:51 (ZULU)
Just saw an interview with a former 4 Star General from Iraq. He was one of Saddam's top advisors in the "91" war. His take on the up comming one is that Saddam knows he can't stand toe to toe with us. So he's moving the Regular Army incircling Bagdad as bullet bait. His loyal Guard units are implaced IN Bagdad so the fighting will be house-to-house.
With Bagdad having a population of 5,000,000 with about 1,000,000 armed Militia (that may or not fight) and covering some 2,000 sq miles. He figures his Guard and Militia can send at least 2,000 - 3,000 American troops home in bodybags. His thinking is that if he sends enought bodybags back to the USA the population will raise holy hell with the Gov. to end it because our populace doesn't have the guts or balls to carry on the fight with a high body count.
As much as I hate to say it, his thinking may just be right. I doubt the sheeple will take seeing too many C-130s unload many gray steel coffins before they start to back down. It's been 30 years since we had a high body count conflict and our population is a hell of a lot more "pussyfied" than it was during Nam.
TreverSlyFox <treverslyfox@yahoo.com>
Houston, Missouri, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 01:05:28 (ZULU)
Be careful ordering from Botach. They have mixed press on other forums. I have never dealt with them, but you may want to check out other forums to get the skinny.
New computer is fast as lightnin. Makes surfing a fun thing.
On the Bagdad thing.....
I think its great that Sadass wants to put all of his troops in one area. I think our military dudes should read the stories about the seige of Leningrad. The Germans screwed it up and got to impatient. If Sadass does what you have indicated, all we have to do is surround the damn place and starve them out. Won't have to fire a shot. Patience is the key. Once the populace gets hungry enough, they will kill the military off and come a runnin for them fine tastin MRE's.
Starting watching the Sierra Reloading Tapes with David Tub. He skips a lot of upfront stuff like how to choose dies, etc. Also, how many of you turn your necks? He also says that it is best to full length size high power stuff so that you know you won't have chambering problems?
Bolt <reeldoc@triad.rr.com>
NC, - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 01:37:35 (ZULU)
You gents and your talk of screwed-up M700 receivers got me pretty cranked-up.
I just finished bedding a brand-new VS .308 w/ Marine-Tex and lapping a set of Mk4s for my Loopy M3LR. (Night-Force tapered bases.)
Ran out into the garage, unlocked the safe, and checked the bore-sight. (I bore-sight on my bosses roof corner across the street. hee hee). Whew! Now i feel better. Got approx. 56 mins. left over...
Got the old ticker pumpin'...
Can't try it out until the wife gets back from Germany visiting son and daughter-in-law and new grand-boy. Me and the girls are "bachin" it.
Y'all take care and stay safe.
Hug them kids.
Semper-Fi!
Spud
Dennis <usmcspud@msn.com>
Merced, Kalisocialistfornia, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 01:58:41 (ZULU)
Darn. I might have used Woodstock if I'd thought of it. Maybe next time. ;-)
John and Alan: I'll take a look at the ARMS QD rings. It'll be a little while, though: the spirit is willing but the bank account is weak.
TreverSlyFox: Now there's a chilling piece of foreshadowing. Doesn't surprise me a bit, either.
Bolt: Like your analogy with Leningrad. May be a good strategy. Would suck to get bogged there for years, though.
Mike: Glad you like my theories. I'll keep tossing 'em out there for people to swat down. I don't mind that a bit, so long as people think about them. There's too darn little thinking going on these days, it seems. Way too much leaping, way too little looking.
Pete: Yes, some ass-kicking is in order, but whenever it is we do it, let's not do it recklessly. The way I figure it, a single, precision shot is usually worth more than ten minutes of spray-and-pray. Speaking of which, I still can't figure out why we don't send in a team and let a sniper reach out and touch Mr. Hussein. Cheap. No fuss, no muss. And instead of the rest of the world whining at us, we come up looking good. Beats me...
Alan and Brogers: Sorry guys, on this one I'll disagree openly. Nukes are bad business all around. I know they were used to save casualties in WW2, but knowing now what we didn't know then --the various physiological side effects, how global weather patterns toss the fallout back in our face no matter where we are, etc.-- I just can't support their use today. A situation like what we had with the USSR, where each side had to have both the ability and the spine to annihilate the other just because the other had that capability too (MAD), was one thing. Using them as a tactical convenience, in lieu of conventionals, is a whole different ball game. The cost of nukes on the world and on ourselves is just too high in this situation. You can razz my ass about living up to my name, but I don't yield on this one. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Brogers: Good assessment of how to deal with bullies. I'm with you. Just to be argumentative, though, I'll chime in with a mention of escalation and disparity of force. After a policy of nuke 'em 'till they glow and shoot 'em in the dark, it doesn't matter how bad the other bully was, *you're* the bully now. Those who fear you will never be true allies, no matter what they say.
As for conflicts eventually breeding respect and possibly even friendship, yes, I agree that often happens, but the way the conflict appears to the rest of the world is of equal importance. If the neighbors all now consider you a bully, not understanding that you're now friends with your ex-enemy, you may find yourself facing a lot more hostiles than you reckoned for. Yes, you can then stomp each of them, individually or collectively, but that's going to cost you a lot more PITA (and in this case, lives) than had you dealt with the first bully in a more subtle fashion.
I'm not saying we shouldn't step on this moustached cockroach, but I am saying we should do it in such a way that the squish doesn't throw eggs everywhere.
Ye gawds. I've got to get more sleep if I'm now tossing around that much metaphor.
Treehugger
Treehugger <pitsligo@sprynet.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 02:49:47 (ZULU)
Been busy with work and lawyer, ex pulling crap, new gig (possible USO tour too), trying to sell the house and relocate, and finding out that chicks really do dig musicians ;-), but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to poke a little fun. Regarding the M1A scope mounting, I now know why mounting a scope on an M1A is such a legendary deal. Joe's was an eye opener for me. Tweaking guns is fun, but I think you can make my .308 autoloader a flattop AR10 with a match barrel, floated handguard, and optic in ARMS #22's on a SWAN sleeve with flip up BUI's thank you very much. All the gain, none of the PAIN! LOL!
Where the hell are 'Lito and Dan?
Mike and Wes...heal up already, k?
Agree with Joe re: cops being the front line. I heard that an agency took down a convenience store just on the IL side of the border earlier this week. Raghead owners, had some sort of Bin Laden "shrine" built in a back room. Just bar talk, but WTF?
Been spending a lot of time in that area, and I DON'T like it. Doug B and rest of you LEO's, I don't envy you, if something happens, I hope you get reeeeeal lucky!
I walked the big mall at Gurnee Mills (north Chicago suburbs) with a wheeled backpack last week, shit. I don't even want to say how that went. Sheep is the word. I am NOT cut out to be a city boy!
Oh yeah...ARMS #22 are the shiznit if you *need* quick detach ability.
Joe, we will hook up soon.
Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
WI, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 02:55:35 (ZULU)
Bent barrel-easier than you might think in sporter weight.
WR Moore <wrmoore2001@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 04:32:48 (ZULU)
Got to get back to my...oh I mean the lads, Pinewood Derby car, time trials tomorrow ya know.
Joe S.
Joe S. <Spojoehpd@aol.com>
Dago, SoCal, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 07:12:17 (ZULU)
If Saddam thinks the merican people will fold he ought to remember that several thousand of their countrymen were murdered by vermin wich he has not distanced himself from.Besides, he has killed a shit load of his own people and is obviously going to contribute greatly to this world by leaving it.
The point is gulfwar2 is a dirty job that needs doing,the sooner we start the sooner we can do somethin more enjoyable.My prime minister is a peice of shit but I have to agree with him on this.If the u.n want to come along,great,if they want to carry on like box heads and frogs then screw 'em,now and forever,amen.
Le & mil folk,God speed & watch yer 6
out
G.W
Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 08:09:44 (ZULU)
USMC Rules For Gun Fighting
1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your
friends who have guns.
2. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not
start with a "4".
3. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is
expensive.
4. Only hits count. A close miss is still a miss.
5. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough
nor using cover correctly.
6. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and
diagonal movements are preferred.)
7. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a
friend with a long gun.
8. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or
tactics., they will only remember who lived.
9. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and
running.
10. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more
dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
11. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME.
12. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to
beat you to death with it because it is empty.
13. Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
14. Have a plan.
15. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.
16. Use cover and concealment as much as possible.
17. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
18. Don't drop your guard.
19. Always tactically reload and threat scan 360 degrees.
20. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep
your hands where I can see them).
21. Decide to be AGGRESSIVE enough, QUICKLY enough.
22. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot up you will get.
23. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
24. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
Navy Rules for Gun Fighting:
1. Go to Sea
2. Send the Marines
3. Drink Coffee
Army rules for Gun Fighting:
Show up after fight to provide security and help hand out food
to all of the displaced civilians.
Air Force rules for Gun Fighting:
Watch this all on cable in a BOQ while drinking a beer.
Sarge
Sarge <Sarge@snipercountry.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 14:04:07 (ZULU)
Treehugga; Nuke's is not a first strike preferred option, but taking untold casualties to protect the enemies country is not an option either. \
I think there is way too much handwringing over an enemy who's elite troops slows down his opposition only by surrendering in the path of advancing infantry. These are not German Nazi troops or even Afgan mountain men. Chemical weapons should be met with appropriate response if someone would be so foolish to launch them and will do more harm to the Iraqi people than the American troops. Those troops will be on top of them before they can do more than commit suicide. This isn't a SWAT operation, it's a full battle assault on a city. Ever heard of something called TANKS! House to house? Houses get bull dozed. This guy is a suicidial fool and we'll treat him the way we did the one in Germany. If he's lucky he'll have time to commit suicide.
Allies; Who in the hell is that? Perhaps someone who's interest of the moment is to help you gain your objective. /OR someone who wants to be sure they are not gonna attack them or their interests/ or Someone who wants us to protect them. IF we had any number of true allies we wouldn't have to go to the UN. OK there's the British and the Aussies God bless the bloody boogers, they all realize what's at stake and fit at least 2 of the catagories above.
Look back at this page's Archive when we were talking about the invasion of Afganistan. The handwringers are always sure we're gonna just be wiped out by some stone age army somewhere. We have Vietnam's foolishness to thank for all this. The mismanagement of that will haunt us forever. America has prioritized the ability to wage war anywhere anytime and backed it with our souls and our money and the youth of America should note that it's their responsibility to keep it combat ready if Democracy is to survive. They will.
One more thing, it's important to identify your enemy and to think that Sadamn is the only Iraqi against us is pure foolishness. I think you get my drift.
Brogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 15:15:43 (ZULU)
I like the chick.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 16:07:19 (ZULU)
You have mail w/ attachment.
Mk4
Mk4 <sharps45@msn.com>
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 16:17:38 (ZULU)
She may not be much to look at; but she's one sharp lady. Glad she's on our side.
Doc
Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The soggy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 16:22:26 (ZULU)
Bought a pair of Danners in '86--wore em through a winter Ranger class. Then the Q, then 5 years of world travels in SF, then Alaska. Eight soles later and this same pair is on my feet right this minute! 10th SFG gave me a pair of Matterhorns in 89; they are still kicking along too--I use them "off duty." My thought was to "extend" the service life of the more expensive danners...I hadn't yet realized they were indestructable. Two more cents. You're getting rich off this thread!
Joe S.-Pinewood derby memories! Ahh, the good ol days. I made, errr, my son made one into a replica "monte carlo" Nascar, decorated with scavenged J. Gordon Logos from a model kit. He actually shaped it after I cut it down on the bandsaw. He painted it too. It won the pretty prize at two levels, but it was too slow to be competetive. Big confidence boost to the little guy. We mounted it to an old spark plug on a walnut plack. Enjoy these days mang!
Sarge,
Did the Marines enjoy picking up spent Ranger Brass at Kandahar? Heheh. In fact, including WWII, name a place where the Marines were the first on the ground. Say Guadalcanal and I'll say "LTC Fertig." It is a silly point to argue in reality. Nothing against Marines, but the myth of first to fight is just that--a myth. SOCOM seems to be the "first to fight" lately; and the Marine Corps didn't wanna play back in the eighties. And yes, there are contigencies where the Corps will lead the charge--it is just that these situations haven't happened in a long time. Since I am Army and my whole family is Department of the Navy (yeah, I went there--ducking into my bunker)--I hear this argument all the damn time. This same argument is internal to the Army too. It drives the regular-types nuts that a bunch of "undisciplined" GBs, together with the "fractured and inviable" Northern Alliance drove the Taliban to the hills in short order. Made my day though. Winning is all that counts in my eyes, I don't care if it is cooks and clerks from the Airforce--so long as my team wins every time!!!!
And I am smiling wide as I type this. I just love inter-service rivalry--it makes each of us better. We all know that we give our best when the shit hits the fan--no matter who leads or follows. The rivalry stays at the POE. I love this shit. I am sooooo glad I didn't retire at 20....
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 16:46:53 (ZULU)
Watch his body language on the way to or from an interview about Sadaam.
Seen that same swagger a thousand times before and after a Southeast Texas bar fight. heh heh.
Just saw a special on Condoleeza Rice right after my post.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 16:54:46 (ZULU)
Pete
Peter Lincoln <anke_pete@t-online.de>
D - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 17:10:55 (ZULU)
1972: Dad was working and didn't have time to help me with my car so I whittled it out myself with a pocket knife. Painted it with a black magic marker. Made some home made decals in the form of a shark for the sides, with notebook paper and a red flair marker and put a CSA battle flag on the hood. Called it "The Shark".
My best friend had a bad ass car. Polished nail axles, graphite, lead weighted to just under the weight limit, etc. but damn SLOW.
Mine was the ugliest car there but damn FAST. Dad made the race. HUGE group of scouts in those days.
It came down to me and the kid who's Dad was setting the cars on the track to run. I'd already beaten this kid once in an earlier heat. My car was the only car that his car hadn't beaten. We would run on each track and then switch lanes. Yes, "The SHARK" was unbeaten.
I handed the guy my car to start the final race. The place was packed and very loud. The kid's Dad looked both ways to make sure no one was looking and purposely dropped my car. Broke a hard plastic wheel in half. "Oops, sorry kid. Guess you lose"
Ohhhhh, you sorry son of a bitch. Daaaaaaaaaddddddddd!!!!!!
he heh.
Dad grabbed my buddies car which had already lost. Yanked a nail wheeled axle off and stuck it on my car. Dad walked up to the guy and the guy reached out to take my car. Dad said "I'LL DO IT". Dad put the car on the track and there we went.
Zooom. Shark won.
Switched lanes -
Zooom. Shark won again. Unbeaten throughout the contest.
Won the big trophy and first place ribbon. Had to give my buddy his wheel back after the race. Proud day.
Still got "The SHARK" after all these years, in my china cabinet. Missing wheel and all. Right next to that big assed trophy.
Thanks Dad.
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 17:15:28 (ZULU)
brian k. sain <brianksain@yahoo.com>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 17:27:58 (ZULU)
you shooting that AI yet?
FatBoy...
Chris <sweepman@tds.net>
TN 1K matches are back on!!!, Next match,, Feb 23rd. Get with me for more info., - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 17:37:33 (ZULU)
Eating last night with family at one of those Asian, cook it at your table type places.
My 2 year old got bored and was wandering around about 2 feet from my chair.
In the middle of a mouthful of noodles and rice, I realize there is a small red dot on my boy's forehead.
You know the rest. As I pitched my kid under the table and spewed rice while trying yell, I heard wifey saying something to the effect of "oh f&^*^, not again".
As my 1911 Commander cleared the holster and I closed distance to the next table, there was this small voice in my head that said "Uh Oh! you need to think about this!"
Luckily before I got to the other table the kids mom was working him over pretty good about the deal and was somewhat oblivious to the enraged, pistol toting, rice drooling, behemoth that was on the way. I got the Commander and the behemoth put away at about the same time, and I don't think the kids parents ever knew what happened!
God I hate those things!!!
Poor chef at the table. Couldn't catch anything the rest of the night and burned everything he cooked.
Been a while. Hope everybody is healthy. Reading the last several days of posts sounds like not much has changed here. Good!
What if Condoleeza Rice and Tony Blair had a child? Hmmmmm....
Rich Johnson <rjohnson@cityofclovis.org>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 17:57:07 (ZULU)
I have second hand understanding of the red dot reaction. My wife was sitting off an intersection at the university in her squad watching for drunks...when a red flash hits her eyes and settles on her chest. She threw herself sideways and hit the lights; bailing out of the drivers side. In the beams were two college kids, eyes wide, staring at her .40-bore. Yep, they were holding a laser pointer and thought it would be funny to light up a cop. How dumb is that? Bet they laughed real hard in the holding cell.
Chick-cops dig me. (whaddya say to that Brian!)
Joe M.
Joe Mahon <joseph.mahon@usarec.army.mil>
- Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 18:42:37 (ZULU)
Had to pass this on. You gotta love it! ;o)
A True Marine
From a Marine in Bosnia: (note signature after reading)
A funny thing happened to me yesterday at Camp Bondsteel (Bosnia):
A French army officer walked up to me in the PX, and told me he
thought we (Americans) were a bunch of cowboys and were going to provoke a war.
He said if such a thing happens, we wouldn't be able to count
on the support of France. I told him that it didn't surprise me. Since we had come to France's rescue in World War I, World War II, Vietnam, and the Cold War, their ingratitude and jealousy was due to surface at some point in the near future anyway.
That is why France is a third-rate military power with a socialist economy and a bunch of faggots for soldiers.
I additionally told him that America, being a nation of deeds and
action, not words, would do whatever it had to do, and France's
support was only for show anyway. Just like in ALL NATO exercises, the US would shoulder 85% of the burden, as evidenced by the fact that the French officer was shopping in the American PX, and not the other way around.
He began to get belligerent at that point, and I told him if he
would like to, I would meet him outside in front of the Burger King and beat his ass in front of the entire Multi-National Brigade
East, thus demonstrating that even the smallest American had more fight in him than the average Frenchman. He called me a barbarian cowboy and walked away in a huff.
With friends like these, who needs enemies?
Mary Beth Johnson LtCol, USMC
*********************************
Doc
Doc Holloway <docs@fidnet.com>
The soggy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 19:03:23 (ZULU)
Brogers: Sounds like things are heating up to where aggravation is an issue, so I'm going to shut up. We each have our opinion; I think each is valuable and viable, but I don't think either of us is going to "convert" the other --or should, necessarily. If you want to keep the ideas coming via email, I'd love it, but I don't want to turn this into a pissing match on the site. I'm a newbie here and don't want to rile the regulars.
WR Moore: If that was my 721's bent barrel you were talking about, yes, I've thought about sporterizing it, but I heard a report that you l
