Sniper Country Duty Roster

February 24, 2001 - February 28, 2001



Mike Miller2,
Try MGM Targets, Mike make one called a Lolli-Popper which can take a .308 without a dent. Supposed to be good for .300WM, though the .223 at close range will vaporize a little metal off the surface. Comes in 8" or 4" target diameter, mine has one of each.
Grasshopper <wd6cmu@earthlink.net>
Freezing in the dark, Kalifornia, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 00:31:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.22.22.2) 
Scott...
If you read back over the years, the topic of Springfield Armory scopes has come up more than once.
I have several, and I like them. they are NOT the quality of Lupita's and B&L Tac's... but they are much better than Tabasco's and the other odd ball scopes.

I have a gen "1" with the 7.62 reticle, and the 40mm ".223", with the same type of range finding reticle, except for .223.
The bubble levels DON'T BREAK... they are solid, and very useful... especially if you are one of those who's life is a bit "tilted" ;))
I have bubble levels on all my long-range riffles, and they work.

They are big, and rugged... they are guarenteed to take the recoil of a 50-BMG rifle, and they do it just fine.
Even one of the long time S.A. scope haters on this site, recently posted that he has come to like them. They are NOT the optical equal of a $1200 scope, but they cost 1/3 to 1/2 of that.

The Gen "1" does not have parallex adjustment, the gen "2", and gen "3" do have it, though I don't think it's all that necessary.
If you shoot the 168SMK at 2650, then you can use the "7.62" rangefinding reticle... it's a bit cluttered, but the fastest scope in the business for a spotters rifle.
If you are shooting enyother caliber, then get the mil-dot, and a "Mildot Master", and you're good to go.

The POI does not change, for any practical purpose (maybe a 1/20" at 100 yds)

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
"Dickhead army guys!!!" Now, even the rick-ster don't get no respect :(( in the muddy, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 00:59:31 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.111) 


If any of you haven't already done so and would like to participate, there is a petition going on-line for the Rangers to keep their black berets. As a former member of the Regiment and the Ranger Training Brigade I would encourage you all to sign it. We are already aware that there are some grammatical errors in the petition. These will be corrected before the actual petition is presented to President Bush (god that sounds good, don't it?) at the end of David Nielsons 700 mile roadmarch from Benning to the White House. Thank you all for your support. Here's the link. Thanks again.

http://www.petitiononline.com/75thrgr/petition.html
Sharky <landshark375@yahoo.com>
El Paso, TX, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 01:38:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.162.205.13) 


hi guys,

I have just purchased a pre-ban AR and I want to put a collapsible stock on it.
I have heard some stocks are prone to break during a stuck round extraction when the “T” handle I held by the right hand and the butt stock is struck against the ground.
.
Any comments on which ones to buy or stay away from
Does anyone make a 100% steel stock?

Thanks,

mike <mikewood_@excite.com>
USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 02:06:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.118.9.20) 


Terry:

To mirror Mictac, swore to the oath as an LEO for both the federal and state constitution two times (two departments) and carry a copy of the federal constitution in my pocket (a neat, pocket sized book published by The CATO Institute).

Swore to it for my military duty and appreciate it even more now than when I was 19 going in.

Wish more folks would respect and honor it as well.

All:

Need input from your end (LEO and others) regarding duty loads in .223 for your patrol rifles. We are finally green lighted for rifles (long story why it took so long). While I am getting info from local agencies who have put them into service, I'd like to hear from all regarding what you are using. For the experienced non-LE types, please play the "what if" game as in, if you were the administrator making the decision, what would you recommend for a duty load. You input is valued.

Thanks in advance for your input. I'd like to take your responses by e-mail if possible to keep bandwidth low.

Morris
Morris <mparrish@oz.net>
Seattle Metro, WA, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 02:30:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.74.212.66) 


Rain, rain go away, come again another day...when I don't have a new rifle to zero at the range.

Richie-You don't know the real differences between the Army and USMC snipers at all. The biggest are they use different mildot reticles in their scopes, the Marines have better issued boots, the Army guys still have a fading memory of eating with utensils (because they are true gentlemen) and the Marines grunt more while doing simple tasks. Everybody knows that the best of the best in the sniper world is the LEO sniper...(this will ruffle some feathers but it's all in fun)

Now all joking around aside. The true professional sniper, regardless of branch of service or LE agency is not there to kill anyone that they don't have too. This a dedicated, highly trained small group of people who have one goal....To serve and to serve well. The Consitution and law are paramount to them and they have made a decision to use a talent/gift given to them for a betterment of our country and society.

Richie-you do not have these gifts seek another profession when you grow up. Unless you make a 180 degree turn around the military (USMC or Army) will have no use for you. Spend more time listening to your teachers and learn to write and spell better it will be for your own good.

Simply said-Go away kid you bother me.
joe <spojoehpd@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 02:47:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.105.153) 


I am planning on getting a precision trigger for my AR15. I have narrowed the selection between a JP trigger and a Jewel two stage trigger. Anybody have experience w/ either of these or a preference?

Jason B
 

Before you go changing your trigger out, make sure you know what you plan on using the gun for. Since you mention getting a "precision" trigger, I assume you want to get into high power service rifle or benchrest shooting.

In which case you might seriously consider the Jewell two stage trigger. The second stage can be tuned to let off at a couple of ounces. Kinda pricey at $200.

If your using the gun in a tactical role, you don't want no hair trigger setup! You didn't mention what flavor you have. I have a Colt R6551 and switched out the standard trigger for Colt's "match trigger" setup. It ain't no Jewell or JP but it does break at 4.5 pounds which works well with extra dumps of adreneline!

Moe

Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 03:25:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.205.32) 


RICHIE COUNTRY -

Youse guys must be really bored and/or not getting enough trigger time! I don't believe how much bandwidth we've wasted on this illiterate little snot who doesn't respect his mother! LOL

Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Richieville, USA, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 03:36:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.205.32) 


Daaaammmm – He sent me a nifty little email that was ever so fun to read!

Bill – You a hoot man, two toned yotes! Now that would be a real fun video for PETA.

Just finished up with a class that 7th SFG put together. Not bad graduated 16 of 24 students, even had a good smart guy that is with the 7th that had the good sense to change from Marine to SF sniper instructor. :-)

Rick

Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 03:38:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.48) 


lurking, lurking.......

Mike Miller,

I still catch ya on your late nite info-mercials during my insomniatic fits, heheh. It's good to see the face of the guy you've barreled for. Glad to hear the Lapua is treating you well, seems to be a popular cartridge nowadays.

'lito:

As a barrelmaker, I believe that everyone should shoot the 220 swifts, 257 wby, 6.5 x 284, 264 win mag, and all the other hot rod Lazzeroni 30 cals you can find. Keep me busy boys!!!

Dead on as usual as far as the barrel wear info..... The Win Mag was the perfect example of wear as relative to bore diameter to propellant capacity. Include throat dimensions though, because remember that a 'shot out' barrel is one that is shot out past the leade (throat) where the lands are worn to the groove and gases are escaping ahead of the bullet inhibiting velocity and and also bullet upset is occuring due to the 'jump' to the minor diameter of the thread (land). Actual bore diameter will be a factor. I would always suggest that you rebarrel with a groove diameter at or just under the bullet diameter, but the bore diameter (diameter of the lands) is something I'm struggling with. Will a barrel with .300 bore shoot longer than one with a .301 bore?? I believe so. With a .308 groove diameter you have .004" land with the .300" bore, and I have seen 308's with bore diameters up to .302" which would only give you .003" of land to wear, so I do believe different barrels give different results. I do think the light skinned varmint bullets are all right with the shallower bores, but the match and solid bullets like somewhat deeper bores (not grooves, just bores).

Just my grain of salt
 
 

JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 07:19:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.34.14.23) 


Hello all,
First off, if I haven't been effusive in my thanks, I do really appreciate the help, 'lito and Rick in Fayettnam (hows Hay street these days BTW? Still cause flashbacks to Soy Cowboy?) for answering my questions, and the wealth of info on the site. Using this, I managed to be on paper (8.5 x 11) at 500 mtrs first try today. May be routine for most of you, but I'm ecstatic about it! This is with a cheap Tasco and a 35 year old .264 M70. Still saving pennies for that IOR and figuring out how those mildot thingies work. Thinking I'd have my nephew set up randomly numbered targets at random ranges from 50-500 meters to practice, one shot per target, repeat numerically until 5 shots at each target. Sound like a logical drill?
Are any of you in PA for the Mosquito Creek Coyote hunt this year? They expect 1st prize to be over $20K for the heaviest. Someone already got a 50 pounder, kinda hard to beat. Reason I asked is while signing up there was a discussion of snipers, dropping names like Hathcock and Mawhinney (?spelling) and weapons used. Not something I'm used to hearing in casual conversations in backwater towns. Know any good links on how to hunt 'yotes in the PA area? Even 2nd or 3rd prize could be enough to put together a respectable rifle.
Anyone have any experience with Brownells Steel-bed stainless steel bedding compound? I picked some up but am leary of using it after reading all the warnings. The warnings were inside the box of course.

Time to go talk to the coyotes.

Ut Fiat Libertas
Samal
Samal <Knife_1@hotmail.com>
Pinchatooly, PA, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 07:24:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.91.146.38) 


'Lito,

Thanks for the plug. Get those photos back to me and I will send you another of me and the longhorn (no sheep).

Bill Moore,

Drop the ghillie. Hunt the edges, 5 to 6 feet back into the cover. Get an exclusive on the property so's you don't have to contend with other hunters. Contact me offline for further details. Wish I was hunting chucks back east.

Markwell,

PD hunting sucks, from my perspective. Chucks are 200 times smarter. Hiking is the only way to go. Sometimes it results in only taking your rifle for a walk, but I got to watch an albino doe for a half-hour on such a walk. No better way to spend an afternoon. Plus, you might get lucky. Ask 'lito how I feel about chuck hunting.

No need to apologize for being behind my slow-movin' ass.......I'd have been pissed too. Look forward to seeing you again.

Best Regards,
Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 07:25:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.254.238.117) 


Jason B,
I have the JP fire control package in my Bushmaster. I fitted it myself and it went smoothly following their directions, except for the oversized pins -- I should have gotten their reamer to size my receiver, because I had to pound the pins in without it. The single-stage trigger is a good system for CQB, but 2-stage is prefered for target work. I ran Jim Crews' 5-(rainy!)day urban carbine class with my setup and it worked very well, not a single glitch, but Jim mentioned that the engagement surfaces are not hardened and you have to figure on getting a new trigger every one or two thousand rounds or run the risk of it going full auto on you. If you don't mind tinkering with your gear, I give it a thumbs up.
Grasshopper <wd6cmu@earthlink.net>
Freezing in the dark, Kalifornia, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 08:02:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 66.1.132.212) 
Long post coming...out of my shell again.

Ritchie, you need to work on your writing skills my friend.
If you really look up to the Marines, be advised that they require things like attention to detail, respect, and discipline.
Have you talked to a recruiter?
Perhaps you can find one that is willing to give you an idea of what you will need to accomplish and help you get started. Your mom really should know what you want to do too, sho may be able to help.

BTW Ritchie, if you can't respect a simple rule about staying off this site, the Marines will have you for lunch and ship you home whining like a whipped pup.

I wish I could do more for you Ritchie but you got some good advice from some of these people (not counting those that slammed you)and you should pay attention to it.

Rex
1911 sight installation. Check out 1911forum.com. All the links you could ever need, and you will find a good 'smith in short order.
Absolutely get your slide milled and a dovetail front sight put on. It will never leave you! I am fixin to send my Kimber for adjustable night sights and a Bar-Sto. Oooooh yeah!! Haven't decided where yet either. At least I don't have to decide until I have the cash!!

Joe:
"the 666 is a little more difficult to explain because i am in a band that believes that the 66,600,000 angels that went to hell with lucifer During the Great divide will return to the heavens one by one, the last to leave Satan's side being Baal.) anyway......"

What the hell does being in a band have to do with Satan? I am in a band too....www.katella.net. The baddest things I get involved in are drinking beer/liquor and ogling girls, and the reason I play is for the music....M.U.S.I.C. Well, and the girls. Not Satan (or any of his multitudes). People like you give rock n'roll a bad name. Do you put as much time into your playing and writing as you do your fairy tales? Let's take the 666 out of rock ok? Believe whatever you want, but what does Satan (or "Baal") have to do with being in a band? Geez.

Sorry man, pet peeve. Been a Christian AND a musician for 15 years. Too many artists out there and not enough music. And now I suppose the liberals will wanna slam me for being a "Satan hater". And all this coming from someone who's nickname is "Kill"........although some call me "the Nuge" after the famous Motor City Madman.

As far as paintball markers go, if you know about sight alignment, breathing, and trigger control, you are already more accurate than your paint marker. You need to go find an infantry/CQB tactics site. Sniper tactics aren't real relevant to paintball considering the ranges involved. What, are you going to stalk across an open field in full Ghillie to within 25 yds. for that elusive head shot in daylight?

To all:
First time, shot a full auto XM177 I think it was...early 70' vintage, tele stock 11.5" barrel in .223. All legal class III of course. Make mine a semi thank you. You LE guys begging for full auto are just putting yourselves and others at risk unless you can afford to shoot 500+ rounds a month. Have a good time getting killed by the BG while you let a full mag loose over their head under that adrenaline surge.

I had the best luck hitting by shooting fast 3 shot bursts using trigger discipline, even though the 3rd shot had climbed up to the upper chest/shoulder area. Anything more than 3 rounds was just a waste of ammo. It was not even that fun, since when I have gun in hand, the mission is to hit what you aim at. After the SS109 ran out, we switched to South African commercial 55grn. Gun short stroked every time. My buddy, who owns the weapon, blamed it on the grease in the gun (it was cold out, about 5* F) I think it was the weaker ammo/short barrel.
Who is right?

Too many odd planets in line in the last 24 hours!
Headin' back to the lurkers area.....
 
 
 

Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 08:14:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.207.52.51) 


Greetings everyone,

Just found this whilst I was catching up on the local news down under:

The New Zealand Police have withdrawn all the rifles used by front-line staff because of an apparant fault in the triggers.

Our rifles are the standard Remington Model Seven .223 with the wood stock and iron sights on the 18.5in barrel.

Could this be related to the recent fuss about the triggers on the Rem 700s?

www.stuff.co.nz/inl/index/0,1008,666772a10,FF.html

I own two Mod 7s and five 700s and have never had a problem with any triggers on them.

We don't carry firearms during general duties, they are all carried in the Sergeant's car with the vests and issued when required.

Sometimes it is comforting to have more than an ASP baton, OC spray and your communication skills to deal with a situation.

I wont even bother to ask if I can take my TBA M40A1 to work "just in case". ;-)

Sniff

Auckland, New Zealand
 
 
 

Sniff <akh805@actrix.gen.nz>
Auckland, New Zealand - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 09:41:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 202.154.128.189) 


Samal...
Pinchatooly??? I Love it!!
Watch out for the two toned, Pink & Green 'yotes.. it means that our ol' "yote Bate" has been where no man has been before ;)

On Brownells's stainles steel bedding compound.. it's all I use now! I used it on the M24 I built last summer, and fell in love (almost as fast as I did with Torstens friend!).
Zero shrinkage, and "tough as steel". It also mixes up as a thick puddy, so it doesn't flow all over the place, where you don't want it to go.
Also, I used to use "Pam" or whatever I had around, as a release agent... Don't!
I have switched to the Brownell's spray-on release agent, and it's very much more betterer.... but this has nothing to do with steel bed... just a better release agent.
Remember to use clay to fill all indentations, or you will have a very bad day... but that applies to ALL glass bedding goop!

Bruce...
The photos will go out on Monday, or Tuesday, by Express Mail... INSURED for $250,000 ;))

PD's are dumber than guppies, but are good shooting if you give them some distance... I worked the towns around Senic, South Dakota, some time back, and it was good... you can take shots that are amazing in distance... and they die easily... a .223, or .222 Mag will be all you need. they "Pop" like water balloons.
But it's strictly shooting, not "hunting"...it takes no skill to sneak up on them... the Injuns can sneak up and bop 'em with a stick (but the white eyes can get within 200 yds ;).

I think that chucks take more "killin" per pound, than any other critter I know of... they are 15 pounds of fuzzy Arnold Schwartznegger.

I was talkin' to Ken Hunter (who hosts SniperCountry) by phone the other night, and all this talk about chucks and crows, has him in a fever... he's lookin' for a .223 Winchester M70 Stealth... he's a lost puppy now, and Mrs Kim is a "Chuck widow" ;)))
You guys down in VA, and W.VA... get in touch with Ken, and take him out to roll a few chucks.

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 10:13:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.22) 


Ref: Chucks (varmint-cong)

With the promise of Spring the talk around the house is now focused on Woodchuck hunting. It is nice to read that so many others enjoy this passtime as well.

Hunting these critters is good fun and great training. The satisfaction that comes from tipping over a Chuck at a good distance is hard to beat.

When I was down at Badlands TC last spring Bobby and I were talking about PDs and Woodchucks. I told him that a late summer Chuck around here could run 15 to 20 pounds. He was polite enough not to say what he was thinking. I'm considering packing one in dry ice and sending it down to OK as proof.

Got a picture here somewhere of Andy with a "yard-wide" grin holding up his first Chuck. He has long since driven the local Chuck population to the brink of extinction. It just ain't safe for 'em 'round here no more.

Our Chuck Prescription: .223/45 gr. JHP/3,600 fps
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 13:00:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.102.184) 


Jewell Triggers for AR's

I recently had one installed in an AR-15, and today was checking it out a bit. It's a 2 stage trigger and can be adjusted for very light trigger pull if that's your thing. First off, upon examining the trigger and its various parts I noticed the surfaces were quite rough. After installation of the trigger the roughness of the surfaces could be felt by a 'notchiness'. You could feel a rough drag when pulling through the take up. When the trigger-pull was adjusted to its lightest setting the rough surfaces of the mechanism would prevent the trigger from returning to original position (pre-take-up). On heavier settings, which resulted in significantly heavier take-up, this wasn't a problem. I think this may wear in, but I'm going to try to have the surfaces polished. Another thing that I felt was just the tiniest bit of creep in the trigger on the 2nd stage. Looking closely at the innards of the trigger mechanism while testing the trigger showed the cause of the creep. The part of the trigger that pushes the hammer off the engagement was torqueing to the left slightly. This part is just following the path of least resistance and in the AR setup the sideways movement isn't prevented by any housing like the Rem 700 version. If you look under magnification you'd probably also find that the surfaces involved in the pushing of the hammer off engagement are PERFECTLY square. A bit of examining witness marks and a super fine polishing stone (plus lots of careful effort) would probably solve this.

Not much to say about the JP. Had one on this very same AR before the Jewell was installed. It's a single stage trigger. At the time I had it installed I was even less experienced with rifles so I didn't have too much done in terms of lightening the pull etc. Basically, the reason for the switch was the other half thought it was breaking 'notchy' and she likes 2 stage triggers. I bet the same polishing would make this a great trigger, but not much could be done about it being a 1 stage so ... Since the hostile takeover of my 'evil black gun' (better her than the gov.) I indulged her this =).

I'll give an update after I get to try the trigger again!

Rex
Rex <izrafil@pacbell.net>
Bay Area, 'Sunny' CA, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 13:02:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.198.191.2) 


Lito,
Too much of that BRONCO stuff will wear ya down....just in case you may need to get ya some of the "new" Viagra. Haven't heard of it? Its in liquid form instead of a pill. Adds a whole new meaning to "pouring a stiff one." Hold tight, remember, gotta go 8 seconds or more!

P.S. anyone fimilar with Leupold LPS series scopes?
CVDRIVER <BROWNSILVA@AOL.COM>
USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 14:26:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.104.34) 


Rex, when I worked with NGMTU we had some of those same problems although the triggers weren't Jewells. We took care of it with polishing, oversized pins and adding shims. Hope this helps. Any of you guys sign that petition yet? We need all the help we can get. Over 13,000 so far. David Nielson, at last report was in South Carolina and still marching, eating MRE's and sleeping under a poncho liner. He's averaging 25-30 miles per day. Thanks to all who decided to help.
Sharky <landshark375@yahoo.com>
El Paso, Mexico, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 14:47:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.162.205.13) 
I want to be a sniper in the marines after I graduate High School. I think That I can make a very good sniper after many training sessions.

Josh Liskowacki <Lisko@.aol>
Upper Black Eddy, Pennsylvania, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 14:55:33 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.92.174.25) 


Josh Liskowacki

First off... if you haven't graduated high school, you are TOO YOUNG to be on this site... or you have been left back in class so often that the military won't take you.

Second... consider this. It's not like the movies, and when you get out, what are you going to do for a living? The FBI won't take you, the Police won't take you... Unless you have the ability to teach others (a RARE SKILL), you'll wind up making french fries at burger king.
Get smart, and use your military training for something useful... get some computer training, and a speciality that is marketable in the real world.

'lito
 
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 15:16:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.68) 


"Lito...How DOES Bruce feel about chuck hunting???

I also used to shoot the Conata Basin/Buffalo gap country...went through there last year on way back from Wy. Lots of dogs you can't shoot because, as I'm sure you know, it's ferret country now..From what I saw of the dog population, we should all hope for a quick population explosion of black footed ferrets so the powers that be will open that country up again....The shooting would be extrordinary!! Am heading out that way{West] again in late may/early June on a dog safari and looking for new areas. Contact me off line if you'd be willing to share some info.[if no, I understand]..I scoped out ND last year and found some shooting with a bit of leg work..Was nice to see some new country also..
 

Rex..Get some Novak lo-mounts with tritium dots..you wont be sorry..

Kevin R.M....Brink of extinction??? Andy needs to be sure to leave some chucks for seed....I never shoot any 'til late June/ early July to make sure the little one s are out on there own[more targets also] and usually don't shoot any after early Sept..Have been shooting one farm in particular every year since I've lived here[ about 30 yrs.] and every year there are plenty of chucks to go around....Back when I was really into it, 100+ a year was pretty normal for a summer, but had to travel around the country side to get that many...Place where I lived in the '70s thru early '80s I could shoot 'em off the back steps looking up a big valley pasture behind the house...

Chuck medicine....223/55gr. ballistic tip @ 3100
22-250/same but faster.

Ken Hunter...A bit of chuck shooting could probably be arranged.....
 

outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Time to load MORE varmint ammo in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 16:05:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.92.148.221) 


Morris-
 
 

Call up Hornady and ask for some samples of their 55 and 60 grain TAP ammo. Also ask for a copy of their testing protocol and results. They will happily send you both.
 
 

When you talk to the brass be sure to point out the penetration issues of the TAP (or lack thereof) as a safety factor. I went with the 55 grain to closely mirror the 55 grain FMJ rounds we use for practice and for penetration. If you use the 62 grain for training-go with the 60 grain TAP for a close ballistic match.
 
 

Hope this helps- (and if it does you owe me a Bravo brew!)
 
 

Mike T
Mike T <getting rid of aol@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 16:05:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 65.11.197.193) 


You know, I didn't write it with all that space between paragraphs. Just wanted to point out I is not a writter of the twue excense of beein a snipper.
Mike T <none@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 16:08:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 65.11.197.193) 
So, dollar for dollar the McMillan floor-plate is the best bet for a 700? Opinions, please. Does anyone have a link?

And, what ever became of children beeing seen and not heard? This place is turning into a day-care center.
 
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 16:09:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.253.11) 


'Lito
Kinda made me think of that chuck in Caddyshack!!! :)
Might have to rent that and "prep for my mission"...

"Mamma Mamma I don't wanna be a Marine!"
"Shut up kid and stick you head in this jar!!"

O.K. Seriously now. The Marines are experts at what they do and deserve our every respect. I mean, come on- when was the last time one of our ships was stolen! (INCOMING...!)
Bill Moore <lmalterna@aol.com>
Goodview, VA, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 16:31:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.47) 


Ok is it me or does the following quote from "Ritchie"...OOPS; I mean "Josh," (who is also from Pa. by the way) sound a lot like the song

"I'm a little tea pot short and........." You know the drill.

">I want to be a sniper in the marines after I graduate High School. I think That I can make a very good sniper after many training sessions.<"
 

Try it you'll see.

Or is it the "little engine that could."......"I think I can, I think I can........."

Hmmmmm...Oh well.

On a real type note.....anyone know of an organized (or not) shoot in upstate NY?
 
 
 
 

Mark <beowulf4_hire@hotmail.com>
Small City, NY, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 17:25:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.112.19) 


Mark-
I hear rumors of the Mussak tactical match may be held in upstate New York. Apparently its a new long range shooting area.

LOL-Just kidding Andy and your Dad!
MikeT
Mike T <mictac@aol.com>
USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 17:49:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 65.11.197.193) 


Ya know, I should have realized that by coming to a sniper site, people were going to be taking cheap shots at me (haha, that was a joke). Anyway, I have my iron athletic supporter on this time and I am not gone. And I will ask questions about stalking and stuff and I will try my damndest to make them relevent.

Lito:
I understand that you do not like me, and I understand that you do not want me here. I respect that and you will not hear much from or about me for a long time. If you ever want to talk, I am sure you know me e-mail address by now. Otherwise, consider me "shunned".

Geoff:
do not worry about my band...
The 666 thing is an admitidly stupid suffix to my otherwise harmless e-mail address, and my band sings nothing about satan (avidxxx was my other e-mail address, but that just did not go over well at all). Both my Grandfathers were ministers at some points in their lives, and imagine how I felt giving my e-mail address to my Papa (I still do not think he forgives me!). We are a metal/progressive group and our songs are pretty fantastical (If anyone wants the lyrics to either "Box" or "long-Stemmed Rose", e-mail me). As for music's rep, music does not have a bad name. Look at the stylistic complexity of the works of Beethoven or Bach and compare it to ANY music today. I do not think any music today (other than Yanni) will be looked at as beautiful like the classics are in a hundred years. It is music like that that keeps "Music" as a term beautiful. And I am not trying to crap on your or my band by saying that, I am sure you guys are very talented. Things change, People's tastes grow, and I hate Marylin Manson and Emenem. Now lets stop talking about music before we anger 'Lito. :P

Bolt & Geoff:
Damn strait I have a turbococker with a "14 barrel and a PMI expansion chamber with a folding a "T" stock and 9volt hopper and an auto trigger that drops 13 balls a second that can paint you four colors before you can say "whats a hopper?" so you had better believe I am looking for that daytime head shot from a lengthy range of 25 meters. Guerrilla tactics by night, crazed weasel hunting by day.

CDC:
How's that for punctuation? I'm working on the short and to the point bit... sorry all :)

and finally...

Richie:
Man, I hate so stand and point at the one person who is less fortunate than me, but dammit boy, try a kids game like paintball first. When you get shot out in the first minute of combat and realize that in real life you would be dead without even getting to shoot your gun, try coming back here and you will have new respect for these guys (the combat experienced ones, at least). There are no "dickheads" or whatever. Just the guys keeping you safe. Just don't shoot your eyes out. You will need them for later.
Joe <avid666@yahoo.com>
HCerry Hill, NJ, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 18:27:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 151.204.35.156) 


Joe: Yanni?

700 floorplates: Someone told me that McMillan made one, but I'm damned if I can find it. All I'm finding is the trigger-guard. The Badger is $300. The .300 WM Sendero only cost me $550, so that seems excessive. So, what's the best deal on a Plain-Jane steel floorplate?

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 20:39:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.253.11)


Howdy all,
Appreciate the tips on the 1911 sights. Been doin some diggin and have narrowed down to a couple. Will try to get to a shop and take a look at some next week. Wind is 210 at 38 kts today. Have been watching most of west Texas blow by today heading east/northeast. Took the 3006 out for the purpose of pure experimentation.
Ha, could not even hit my target backboard! Heavy wind really moves impact points around!! Of course it could have been the gravel that were hitting me in the face and the dust in my eyes, right? Ha.Now I have to strip and clean my rifle just to get the dirt out of the action. Was absolutely beautiful yesterday. Lovely weekend weather.
Anybody have a rough number on wind drift for a 168 SMK @ 2900fps muzzle at 200 yds in a 45 mph crosswind?

Rex
Rex <rextra@caprock-spur.com>
Spur, Texas, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 21:29:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.167.146.133)


Tried to get "registered" on the 1911 forum site...No go help from anyone appreciated...Seems they could make it easier for those of us who are 'puter challenged..
 

thanks and outa here
markwell <markwell@hardyney.com>
You ought to see the x-ray of the screw in the Alleghenies, WV, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 22:14:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.92.148.20)


Gent's........

CDC, reminded me of something I have been meaning to share, ( male bonding, don't you just Love it!).

For those of you who are / have been looking for a one piece steel trigger guard for 700 Short actions........that is quality A # 1....and at a reasonable price...look no further.

Mr. John Baier, of Tactical Stocks has manufactured a work of art.

It is bar none, the best looking, and clean steel TG I have ever seen....
It resembles a Win 70, in the latch dept, but is much harder to release, which is a GOOD thing.

All moving parts, one, fit like a swiss watch.
It is all steel, and is almost a drop in for a standard Rem....
Exception on the front screw mount, it's tad wider than a std Rem.

All other dims are the same.

Best part, $ 140.00 + shipping.......less than 1/2 of other solid steel TG assy's......

As I stated, the one I recieved was his first, and it was almost too purty to even install............

John also sells McMillan stocks..if you don't want to wait, call him, he MAY have what you are looking for.

The transactions, and dealings I have had with john, are to date A+.......I heartily reccomend him......Mr. George Gardner reccommended him............

I am glad he did........

Two Shoes
Terry <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 22:35:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.73)


CDC...... Steel trigger guard & floorplate? McMillan shows one on their site - M40A1 @ $110.00 ! Use this address, it should get you right there:

http://www.mcmfamily.com/mfsinc_n/retail_pricelist.html

Just keep scrolling down 'till you see it.

Regards,
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
PALISADE, COLORADO, USA - Saturday, February 24, 2001 at 23:52:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.169.65.10)


I apologize for using your duty roster to contact you, but I found it to be appropriate. I am a minor, only 16 years of age. Do not discard my comment just because of this. I am planning on going to the Marines after I graduate from High School, and was wondering if it's possible to get training with weapons or guerrila warfare or even sniping under the age of 18. I am not asking if I can join your roster, but I am asking if you know of it to be legally possible for me to join a training course or Special Forces training fields to trach me the techniques on the battlefield. I am not interested in the "macho" vision that us minors that play video games would see, I am interested in bettering myself for the future that I am about to embrace. All I want from you is a response saying on whether or not you know of it to be possible for that, or if it's possible to join your ranks or even participate in it on the slightest of ways, whehter it be to be put on hold until I am 18, or anything else, to be told or reccomended to anyone you may know of. I appreciate your time, and would also like to set a good example for those of us minors that are mature, and don't send stupid threats or do brainless actions.
McNutt, Randall James <Slim_Randy2002@yahoo.com>
Midland, MI, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 01:54:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.183.245.231)
I have a question for the M1A guys. I have a supermatch mounted with a leupold 3.5-10X M3 LR. The rifle shoots consistantly sub MOA at 100 yards and a best group of .5 MOA ( with federal gold match 168 gr.). I was wondering if changing to a synthetic (McMillan) stock with glass bedding would increase the accuracy and precision or does the oversized walnut stock produce the same accuracy. Thanks for the info-the site has helped me numerous times without even asking a question. Thanks Brett
Brett Massey <brett996@pacbel.net>
SF, CA, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 02:25:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.166.23.23)
"SLIM" (Shady?) Please stand up............ oops sorry!

Whats up with the kiddie litter that keeps blowin in the door?!

Hey "Slim" I e-mailed ya some real helpful stuff. Run it past your Mom and Dad see if they can tune you up a bit and then come back let us know if there was any pearls of wisdom from them.

Shouldn't these guys be spending their youth trying to get laid rather than collecting tactical training tips?

Seems like a long time since I was a kid but thats what my priorities were. "This is my rifle this is my gun. One is for fighting and one is for fun."

Hey kid have fun; use your gun!

Semper Primus!
Mark <beowulf4_hire@hotmail.com>
Worried about the pediatric content on this site, and my congress woman in NY, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 02:37:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.112.19)


looking for info on 110pf tactical
GIBSON SGT USA <treeman@mdvl.net>
Meadville, pa, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 02:37:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.166.167.83)
joe666...
Read the note at the bottom of this page... Stop whining, your mother would be embarrased!

Will all the little kiddies that have arrived here this past week, and who want to grow up to be steelie eyed killers... please GROW UP, go away, and talk to your local military recruter.

Tell them you want to learn to kill, maim, and terrify people... and what should you "try" to learn in grammer school, so you can join up when you gradjumate... they will tell you what to do (I promise!!)... this is not a recruting site for snipers!!!
That includes paintball whiners... go whine somewhere else.

---------------------------------------

Badger bases...
You'z guys that are getting Badger bases for the first time... REMEMBER... that Martin's screws are all the same length (Lupita has two short ones and two long ones!), which means that at least one will be TOO LONG for the front screw hole over the barrel thread!!! Also, one may be too long for the second front screw, blocking the bolt lug from turning!!
When you mount the Badger base... put the front screw in FIRST... and then cut or grind it down, until it will go all the way in, and snug the base down, without bottoming in the hole... then try the second, and make sure the bolt will opperate... then put in the other two screws, otherwise you will suffer the dreaded "Front screw syndrome"... and you will get to know your local gunsmith a little better!
:((

Markwell...
"Just how does BRUCE feel about chuck hunting?"...
Bruce sent me the most outstanding pictures of a chuck skull, I've ever seen.
It was rolled over, up by Kevin and Andy's area.
Normaly chuck's teeth wear against each other as they grow in, so they are about 3/4 of an inch in an adult... Bruce shot an old grizzled chuck who's teath had been mis-aligned, and so they didn't wear out, they kept growing and curved around (and around, and around!!!)... if they were straightened out, they would be 5 to 7 inches long... they look like curled mastodon tusks.
I tried to buy the skull, but that booger won't sell it ;))

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 03:24:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.90)


All - Hogs ... found some pic's that I took from the 2000 SniperRendesvous. A few good shots of some familiar faces in those. There's also an MPEG video of that dude from Switzerland shooting movers - sorry - don't remember his name.

Marius - let me know if you want to put those into the photo gallery.

Just click on the link at my post..

Ken :)

Ken Hunter <Rogue308@Riflemen.net>
Muddy Northern, Va, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 03:29:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)


Guys, all the Chuck and PrarrieDog talk is killing me. I'm out here having to make due with the smaller and more crafty Ca. Ground Squirrels. The title Varmint Cong is truely fitting of these little burrowing fleabags, watch your six with these ground rats. They "smarten up" really quick after having been shot at a couple times by lower quality shots. It's definitely a challenge when those vermin won't let you get within 200 yards, 300-400yard up wind shots are a kick though because the little buggers have a hard time locating you.

I'm hoping to get to do some crow shooting over the next couple months but I have to wait for a invitation to come from a friendly farmer or rancher first, that's where all the good shooting is at. Same goes for the really good squirrel shooting, private property is where all the action is at.

Man, parrie dogs and chucks, I can only imagine what that is like. One of these days I'll grab up a case of 55grn Vmax for the 223Rem and I'll head out that way for a varminting mecca.

Lito, I'm really liking the way you sum up the intellegence and physical characteristics of all the varying types of vermin.

Was it also you who warned me that there might be a few Varmint Cong sympathizers on the board? PETA types perhaps?
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Gotta go look for my alternate persona, Bill Murray in CaddyShack, Ca, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 03:41:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.161.204.203)


All this talk about ground hogs, makes me wish I were back in Kentucky. I rolled quiet a few over in those days. Talk about rain and wanting to sight in a new rifle. I have been waiting for a day off when it was not snowing or 25+mph winds for 6 weeks now to sight in my 22-250. I got so frustrated the other day, I drug out the pellet rifle and started shooting odds and ends in the yard! The cat kept a low profile! LOL See ya!

T. Metcalfe <delta7@gpcom.net>
Tryon, Nebraska, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 04:26:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.170.51.120)


Gents,

Have been thinking of buying a Remington 700 VSS or variant and cannot for the life of me find a dealer that has any in stock. Is Remington not producing or...?

This keeps up I'll have to find an action and build one!

Semper Fi,

Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 05:08:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.248.135)


ALL:
 

Any comments on what is the best 7.62 Nato/308 rifle to put together whether it be a rem 700 vs, a Win 70 stealth, or some kind of custom job or what.

Also is there a site for Remington LE products?
 

Is there any good reasons to keep a Browning B.A.R 7mm rem mag, When it is a 82 model (I looked it up with the serial #)and when shooting the other day the pin came loose and the trigger went dead. I think my SMK 168 63 grain imr 4831 loads were slamming the action to badly.

And, Yall quit humoring that snotnose Ritchie if you ignore him he will quit posting, he gives us civies that want good info on training a bad name!
Big Will <http://www.Madlogger@hotmail.com>
USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 05:18:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.82.1.83)


Morris,
Houston SWAT uses a 55grn round for their M-4's and swear by it. Been told that there is not a problem with over penetration and has dumped the bad guy every time they had to squeeze the trigger.
Once we get ours we will use the same round.
Might contact Sandy Wohl at Houston PD SWAT, he will have more information.
 

Patrick
Pakrat <psfamily@mail.com>
Hempstead, TX, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 05:33:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 168.69.134.183)


Gents,

Just perusing my CZ catalogs and noticed that CZ makes a heavy barrel "varmint" rifle in .308. Hmmm. Looks darn good. Anybody have any experience with this rifle. Uses a modified M98 action and adjustable trigger. Dealer price under $500.00.

Just what I need, another .308. I get another and wife will have me back in that 12 step program for .308 users...

Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 05:57:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.248.135)


All:
 

I have a bushmaster A3 on the way. What is an appropriate break in for it, I have nerver owned a chrome lined barrel. All comments are apreciated.

Also former Snipers and active Scout/Snipers, What are/were the hardest things for you to cope with and to learn in the beggining? Whether it be judging distances, Observation, Sketching/plotting, or just plain old Stalking ect.? TY for you comments in advance.
Big Will <http://www.Madlogger@hotmail.com>
USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 06:08:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.82.1.83)


C'mon, 'lito, 'fess up.

When you asked if I would part with that skull, I responded, "Absolutely."

You were just too tight-fisted to pony up the paltry $250 thousand asking price.

Probably had something to do with your squandering your funds on .50 cal. toys.
Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas (no groudhogs), NM, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 07:17:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.254.242.207)


One question and one comment:
I am looking for a Mauser 96 or 98 action. Anyone know where I can find one? My dad was building one before he passed away and the action he came up with is not safe to shoot but the stock and barrell is is very good shape.
When we were living out in the county, I had a personal war with the local crow population. It got to the point that on my days off, if I slept in too late and the crows dared to come in my AO, my boys would run screaming "dad get your rifle the crows are back!" I would jump out of bed, throw on some shorts grab up my Remington Nylon .22 and have a time before the crows figured out it was time to bug out.
This little story showed me crow are actually extremely intelligent: Winged one, one morning. Couldn't fly but could hop around. I got my Ruger Mk II and proceeded to stalk this little bugger. He saw me come outside and then MOVED BEHIND A TREE. He pressed himself real tight between some large roots of this huge oak, and was looking out. I snuck up, thinking that I had the drop on this varmit, but as I stepped around, he was looking dead at me. He knew I was there the whole time.
I now have just a bit more respect for my adversary.
The score: Patrick 7 - Crows 1

Pakrat
Pakrat <psfamily@mail.com>
Hempstead, Tx, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 10:51:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 168.69.134.183)


Pakrat...
Pass on the 96 action, they are very awkward, not very desirable for sporting rifles.

On the 98 actions, there are two types... a large ring and a small ring, refering to the size of the front diameter of the action... they do NOT take the same size barrel thread.

Measure the OD of the threaded barrel you have... if it's 0.980", it's for a small ring action... if it measures 1.10", it's for a large ring action... when you know that, then look for a nice action to finish it up.

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 11:47:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.101)


Mike and Two Shoes....ya'll missed real interesting day at the 1000 yd line yesterday. I was almost out of mil dots to hold off in that little breeze and the wobble zone felt like offhand. Interesting tidbit...the launch berm doesn't get as much SW wind as the house does, by at least 10 mph. Not too much slip and slide if you head out today.
brand <brandx375@yahoo.com>
TX, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 12:27:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.193.186.145)
Thanks for all of your help on the target delema. I wish I could afford one of those MGM Targets, but being a broke Marine, I am going to have to go with something cheaper...I have a plan, I'll let you all know how it goes. Anyway, anyone else live in AZ or Southern Cali? Just curious. Thanks again!
Keep it in the X ring,
Semper Fi,
Mike
Mike MIller2 <mmbackpacker@juno.com>
MCAS Yuma, AZ, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 12:44:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.220.187)
HOW TO SELL MY LANDTEC "M-24"

Before I use this site's classified, I need to know how one completes a transaction of this type. Obviously, neither the seller nor the buyer wants to get ripped off.

THE SELLER will want to get paid and eliminate any risks to his
or his family's safety.

THE BUYER will want to verify the seller's claims about the
weapon before shelling out the cash.

So how is it done? I don't want to use the local newspaper classifieds because of all the crazies they rustle up. I don't want to drag it to a gun show because this type of transaction would likely involve meeting the "interested" party a second time to close the deal and then there would be AT LEAST one person out there knowing that either:

1. I am walking around with a $3000.00 rifle
2. I am returning to my car with $3000.00 cash

Safely selling this piece is my main concern. Feel free to email me at ( grasscrawler@hotmail.com ). I'm interested in hearing from people who have successfully (AND UNsuccessfully) completed such transactions. What are some of the warning signs besides the obvious?

Thanks for any ideas, advice, or suggestions.

Steve
Steve <grasscrawler@hotmail.com>
Somewhere, Kentucky, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 13:07:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.255.230.15)


Steve...
I have bought tons of guns and scopes from guys on this site, and I haven't lost a dime, and all the junk was much better than they told me... including that stock from Mr. "HA" ;)... and all said if I didn't like, I could send it back...

You clearly don't have much trust in your fellow man, nor believe that
your fellow man has any trust in you... and that's OK... each to his own.

Take your riffle to a gun dealer, and have him sell it for you on consignment, it will cost you 15%, and that 15% will be the price of your peace of mind.

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
The weather is gettin' warmer, the wind is comin' from the south, and I can smell "Varmint Poontang", in the gettin' mo' betterer, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 13:49:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.70)


Brand,
Yeah, I thought about the range yestidy..........for about 2 seconds!
Rain so hard you couldn't drive, and winds @ around 60-80mph,9-3 at TP...didn't figure even Mike's 22-250 would buck THAT!!!!
Holdovers....60' left of barn!!!!

I'm glad to hear from you, I think I'm going through "Bolt" & "Trigger', withdrawals!!!......

Cold sweats, and shaking right index finger....you know the drill....
However..been fastidiously at the Bench.............mucho roundos.
Color me ready and more than willing..will be down soon...

Hope you are well, and tell Ms.A, and Mr.B....YO!!!!!
Haven't heard from Mike lately, aliens musta took im'!!

Two Shoes
When will the rain end!!!
Terry <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 14:22:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.191)


Chainsaw,

dats Herr Kressibucher in the film,

AWESOME PIX - Love the one of Rod, he actually looks tired (musta been waiting for me to climb the hill after the stalk)!!!!!!!!

Guys you wanna do good S-T-U-D-Y those pix, the BTDT crowd will get some chuckles from a couple of the well used snail trails.
 

Sir Wes,
The VSS and others are still being made according to my product C-D and latest Big Green catalogue.
 
 

Chao!
 

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 14:23:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.54)


PeteR:

Dude - there's looottts of unused trails there too... all depends on what yer willing to put up with to not get busted. Go for the briars - no one in their right mind will go there. Of course - you have to work those cutters or your ghillie will generate lots of overhead movement gettin' tangled. You also pickup lots of natural veg without alot of effort :)

Lemme tell ya - Rod was hot that day - he was bustin' 'em left and right...

Ken :)
Ken Hunter <Rogue308@Riflemen.net>
Grey and Rainy but Peaceful, Northern Va, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 14:55:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)


PeteR:

Take a look at the very last picture - you coudl hide a herd of well trained cattle in that field :)
 

(ducking...)

Ken :)

Ken Hunter <Rogue308@Riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 14:58:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)


Wes: Every CZ product I've seen is GOOD! Jeff Cooper (I'm not a groupie) described their 98 action as a Mauser that had died and gone to heaven. He used it for 'Baby', which launched a 500 gr .458 bullet at 2400fps. I have a cool pic of me doing a 'wheelie' shooting the CZ actioned 'Baby 4', owned and lent by John Gannaway. NICE rifle. I have another pic of my shoulder. Pretty colors.

Steve Grasscrawler: I've sent a few thousand bucks worth of stuff to and from guys on the emporium. Never had a problem. Say a guy decided to screw someone out of a few grand, would he target a sniper site?
 
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 15:02:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.253.11)


Ken,

The lower right corner of the pix LOOKS AWFUL FAMILIAR TO ME........
about twenty yards ahead of spotter, approx five yards to his right I think.

You're right on the cattle, it hid 'Lito OK - RTLMAO
 
 
 
 

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 15:06:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.37)


I am looking for a long range rifle with the flattest trajectory. I have experience with the .308 and .338 mag but I am looking for the maximum distane. would this be a .338 lapua, .50 bmg, .50 bmg with sabbot .30? any ideas.
Bill <bill@sustainable.tv>
fairview, ut, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 15:10:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.41.81.241)
Great pics Ken!

Who was wearing that patchy looking camo? I gotta have some of that to add to my collection!

If you planned on going through the briar patch, why not just dump the ghillie and wear some regular old canvas briar proof stuff? Or, maybe I'm not reading the stalk area right.

WHERE ARE THE SHEEPIES?

Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 16:17:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.54.252)


"I have a bushmaster A3 on the way. What is an appropriate break in for it, I have nerver owned a chrome lined barrel. All comments are apreciated."

Big Will
 
 

Big -

1 - Go to range.
2 - Load mag to capacity.
3 - Point weapon at target.
4 - Insert mag into mag well.
5 - Rack the bolt and release the safety.
6 - Aim at target.
7 - Pull the trigger.
8 - Smile.
9 - Repeat 6, 7 & 8 until mag is empty.
10 - Repeat 2 through 9 until you are out of ammo.
11 - Go home and run patch of Hoppes #9 down barrel followed by dry patches until clean.
12 - Apply small dab of Hoppes #9 behind your ear (or any other appropriate location) to entice wife and/or girlfriend to ignore where you have been for the last five hours.
13 - Repeat 1 through 12 each weekend for the rest of your life.

Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 16:21:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.21)


Folks,

Thanks for the replies on the Remingtons and CZ actions. I've been pretty happy with CZ products, too. I was interested that they have a heavy barrel "Varmint" model. ONLY caliber offered is .308! Guess varmints can come on two legs, too...

Try not to hate me. I'm headed to the range that's 6 miles from the house. Yesterday was 78 degrees in the sun. Today looks headed for the same.

Which one of you folks got together and stole Oregon's rain?

Suppose I should give you a big "thanks".

More later.

Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 16:26:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.248.102)


Ken: If I remember Rod wasn't the only one that was HOT !!! that day. Literally... It must have been 100+ in that damb Ghillie.. A couple of guys, me included nearly passed out getting back up that hill. Was it Jim Mitchell that was waiting with the O2.

PeteR: I could swear that was your big toe sticking out of that briar patch. Oh well it must have been Jack the snake trying to get up that snail trail.
TonyY <ayackowski@pershing.com>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 16:28:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 32.97.88.102)


Tony,

HA! more like 120 degrees, at least in my "burlap body bag". This year I will leave EVERYTHING(bold & underlined) up on the hill except rifle, blanks, and camelback!!!! That haul back n forth plum wore me out. another lesson learned for another day.
 
 

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 16:46:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.213.186)


Bolt:
that patchy cammo belonged to the Swedish snipers that won the competition. I think Danny Basso managed to bamboozle them out of those. The uniforms look pretty rugged. The zippers and pouches on the trousers looked pretty rugged as well.

Those dudes went thru: SS1, SS2, the trainup then the competition. They worked really well as a team.
 

Back to house cleaning :)

Ken
Ken Hunter <Rogue308@Riflemen.net>
Cleaning the Major's house, in Northern VA, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 16:49:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)


Fellers
I'ma lookin' to get a .357 (yeah I know it's not revlover country). I can't decide between a Ru-Ru Ruuuu, well you know or a S&W 686. I'm looking at either a 4" or 2.5" (in which case I'd go with the RuuRuu...SP101). I had a GP100 and loved it but I traded it for a Springfield "loaded" 1911 a couple years ago (smart move). Well now I want another .357, while keeping the 1911 of course (oh yeah honey, I've had that one for years it's not new...). Whatcha guys think?

Joe,
Yanni? Dude, you just busted your own balls. Also, until you've performed their works extensively, leave Bach and Beethoven out of your posts. It doesn't impress anyone. I've e-mailed 'Lito a couple times and he'll school you on music just as much as shooting, optics, writing etc.

Later
Rich S. <RS1441@aol.com>
waiting to get off the waiting list at Ft. Meade in, MD, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 17:47:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.181)


Ken (chainsaw ;)...

Man, those brier patches make me go all pitty-pat... I know what "Brair Rabbit" meant when he said "Oh Mr. Fox... Pleeeeeeez don't throw me in that Brier Patch!" ;)

Bolt-ster Dude...
>>"WHERE ARE THE SHEEPIES? "<<
Why, lying back, smokin' a cigarette, you silly ;))

'lito
 
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
I can taste it in the air... "It's loadin' time", in the, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 18:31:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.58)


LEUPOLD MK4 M3 10x ??
I just purchased this scope. I have been told the FED Match 190 grain tracks for the 300mag. Going on a REM 700P w/Badgers. Can some one tell or give me info on size of targets it will hit if I do my part at yardages past 500 to 1000. Also how much difference is there if I shoot say either 180gr or 200gr. instead of the 190. I have never seen or used one of these. Just going by what you guys have said. THANKS FOR ANY HELP Doug
Doug <dkb@pcpartner.net>
USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 20:31:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.177.19.64)
Lito, if the sheepies were laying back smoking a cig, they were either disappointed in you guy's performance or waiting for Master Bolt to show up with those special hip boots. HAHAHA!!!!! You guys gotta do better this year.
 

I have got to have some of those funky cammies!! Anybody got an email addy for the Swedish Sniper Dudes?
 

357, Model 19 Smith, tuned to baby's butt smoothness! Half a dozen reloaders, couple boxes of SWC's and you're in business.
 

Got's me an idee for that thar brar and bramble thicket! Hehehe, old trick from Eastern NC quail hunting days. Best watch that thicket hard this year Rod!
 

You guys that get hot in those ghillies might want to ponder the cool vests that we wear under hazmat gear. Makes you all tingly inside!
 

Back to the grease pit, Bolt out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 21:07:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.54.43)


Doug,

The .300WM 190 gr. Federal loads will track VERY closely with the M-3 220 gr .300WM turret (ugh - "Cam"). So will carefully developed handloads at about 2900 fps. The powders of choice are either RE-22, H-4831SC or H-1000 (Vargets big brother).

Patron 'Lito worked out all the fancy plutofication stuff and simply said use the "Meters" hash marks for yards (300Meters REALLY means 300YARDS)SO FAR it has worked quite well for me.

'Lito any word from Leupold on the revised turrets??????
 
 

Chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
loading some .300 RUMS in BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 21:21:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.188)



 
 

Haven't been reading posts here for about a month so don't know if you all know, but the movie "Enemy at the Gates" (about the famous Russian vs German sniper duel in Stalingrad) comes out Friday. Looks good, realistic, etc from the trailers I've seen here at work. Will see how it turns out.
Brian Fulton <blfulton45@hotmail.com>
USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 22:51:21 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.152.131.100)


To all who have asked about Springfield "Loaded" Gumint models of late;
I picked up a 2000 model parkerized model#PX9101 loaded without tritium yesterday for $489 at the local show(which is no big show @ 200 8' tables)and shot it today.200 rds 230gr ball cheap ammo straight from box no cleaning or oiling other than one patch down the tube to clear.Failure to feed/fire/extract=0.Fit/finish/=100%.Sights are well regulated at 25yds for 6 o'clock hold.Outstanding...the best money I've ever spent on a 1911 by a looong shot.Gitcha one.
BruceE <bgenlvtex@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 23:09:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.198.34)
I just picked up my 700VSSF in .308 (after a long search). Thanks to Dan and Roger for there advice. I will be getting the Leupold VariXIII 6.5X20X50 next week. My question now is does anybody have any ammo recomendations? Most of my shooting will be at 300-500 yards.
I have done some reloading for my AR-15, so I can reload if any one has a pet load.
 

Thanks,
Eric
Eric <alpine@coslink.com>
Mich, USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 23:35:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.68.236.8)


Will putting a Leupold 4.5X14X50 LRT on a Rem VSSF 308 require a adjustable cheek piece? I'm trying to decide between a 4.5X14X40 tactical leupold and the LRT. I would like the 30mm tube and side focus but not if I have to change the stock to attain a proper cheek weld.

Thanks for the advice!
James
James <eeshooter@usa.net>
USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 23:51:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 129.186.205.238)


Bolt: A slick 19 is definitely a thing of beauty, but when you shoot mucho rounds through them they get a little wobbly. The recoil makes me a little wobbly, too. The 686 is a nice comprimise. I love Smith revolvers. .357s especially.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Sunday, February 25, 2001 at 23:53:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.253.11)


James, Have 2 Leupold 4.5x14x40 and the difference in brightness is more than made up for by the ease of sighting/proper weld. Found fifty to be awkward......
Mark A Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 00:29:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.198.42)
Can anyone tell me the hot ticket for reloading the .300 Win. Mag.? I am shooting a Rem. 700 P.S.S. Currently using Federal premium brass (fire formed), Sierra Matchking 190 Gr. HPBT Molycoated, Federal GM210M Primers. I have tried a variety of powders, not all satisfactory. I am shooting tactical target 200-600 Meters. I am most interest in is the powder and the load, as I have a ready supply of the other components.
Any advice will be appreciated.

Michael <bigugly@att.net>
Vista, Ca., USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 00:33:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.72.200.123)


Rich S. Re. .357s...You might try shopping the police trade in market..there are some REALLY good wheelgun buys to be had if you're willing to look around some..Hoplite no has 4" S&W 66s for $239..Fixed sight guns are even cheaper[65s etc.] when they're available..Have seen 19s for as little as $175 over the past few years...
 

Exiting wheelgun country
 
 
 

outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
spinning cylinders in the gun room in the Alleghenies on day 51.!, WV, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 01:12:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.67.241.190)


Big Will – Yes, all the mentioned. :-) Not kidding.

Bruce – So the truth is out, you gave a price and ‘Lito was to darn cheap to buy!

Mike Miller II – Must have missed your target question, but on cheap targets, design what you want, go see a welder. We do that all the time and have them weld up the iron maidens we want. Make sure he uses armor plate steel and not mild cold rolled. It also needs to be 3/8 or larger with half being better if fired at, at closer ranges. You may be surprised how cheap they can be. Ours are full armor at half inch full sized e’ types with stands to get them about 6 foot tall. Cost 225.00. Can be had cheaper for thinner steel and not super hard, or if target is to be a popper or plate. One of the steel intelligent guys can give you specifics on Rockwell or whatever. Have it at work but not here at the house.

Lito – Me thinks that Steve has watched too many TV news casts that exaggerate the risk of the gun culture.

Pete – That field looked ok to me the last time I “studied it”. :-)

Ken – The briars hurt a few guys a couple of years back! :-) (Undude?)

Now moving to higher ground with good cover and concealment!

Rick

Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 01:29:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.58)


Pablito:

Remember that comment a few posts back about the Major becoming a chuck widow? Well - I mentioned going with the gentleman up in WVa to her in an email. Check out the response she sent back:

"If you whistle, they will sit up to look to see where the dog is.....
Then you can pop them. They cause a lot of damage to a farmer's field. I would love to go up to Seneca Rocks...."

Heck - I might be able to get her to go too when she gets back. Damn - that will be 2 chuck rifles that I have to locate...

Lookin for chuck rifles, chucks, waitin' for the Major to get home.

Ken :)
 
 
 

Ken Hunter <Rogue308@Riflemen.net>
Looking for that Chuck Rifle, Dark & Windy Northern Va, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 01:37:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)


Hi Pablito and Wes,

Thanks for the input about selling my weapon in the Emporium.

Please excuse me if I seem paranoid. The only experience I have ever had in buying firearms is at gun stores... I've never sold one. I need to be at ease before I can let my guard down. There is so much slease and misrepresentation on the internet you can't tell who to trust.

Both you and others who have emailed have educated me about the transactions you've been involved in and have put my mind at ease (mostly ).

Thanks again,

Steve
 

Steve <grasscrawler@hotmail.com>
Somewhere, Kentucky, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 01:55:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.255.230.15)


Rick-ster...
Well, that Bruce is a hard man to dicker with... he asks for $250,000 and I came back with $27.93, and he won't budge an inch ;((
Bummer, he's a hard guy to deal with ;)

Ken (Chainsaw)...
"... I would love to go up to Seneca Rocks..."
Heck - I might be able to get her to go too when she gets back.
Damn - that will be 2 chuck rifles that I have to locate...
Lookin for chuck rifles, chucks, waitin' for the Major to get home. "

Jeez, gotta buy TWO chuck riffles... Man, some guys have it real bad, but you are noble to endure it ;)

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 01:58:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.92)


So soooo dissappointed in Remington.
I got a model 700 PS DM LTR in .308 last year from my local shop. The folks at the shop assured me that the little rifle would be a shooter. I figured it'd have to try to shoot poorly, heck - a .308 with a bull barrel on a model 700 action, it's gotta shoot!
Nope. The thing's crap.
Upon delivery, I inspected the rifle. There were some things that just didn't seem right. The barrel sat to the right in the barrel channel, the bolt seemed a little rough, and worst of all for sure, the chamber seemed to be a little low of bore centerline. I could see a slight step at the throat of the chamber from about 10 o'clock to about two o'clock. I noted that to the shop keepers and they said that I should just break it in nicely and see how it goes. I figured that Remington must have known what they were doing or they wouldn't have sent the thing out. The shop told me that the PS models had a one minute guarantee and if it didn't shoot, the factory would take care of it.
Wrong.
I gave the little black rifle a super meticulous break in. Outers foul-out, JB bore paste, fire a shot, clean, decopper, polish... you know, the whole deal. I fixed the barrel channel problem with a mandrel and sandpaper. When I had the action out of the stock, I noticed that the bedding block had some big burrs on the bedding surface - - - That was the bulk of the contact patch. The reciever on a bunch of burrs. I turned another mandrel to be .005" smaller than my action when I wrapped a piece of silicon carbide cloth around it. That way, I could contour my bedding block to fit my action as well as I could without sending the action out to a centerrless grinder. I torqued the action bolts with a torque wrench. My Leupold scope rings were levelled and lapped. My Leupold scope is in great condition. I always used a Dewey rod and a Stoney Point chamber guide during cleanings. It took quite some time for me to feel that I'd done all I could to do my rifle right.
After 130 rounds I called it quits. On a good day the rifle would shoot a 2.25" group in super calm conditions. I had handed the rig over to silouhette and benchrest shooters, and they had all gotten similar, never better results. I sent the rifle back to Remington with the scope rings attatched and a similar story that I just told y'all. They test fired it and recorded a 2.2" group, boxed it up and sent it back to me. Fouled.
They didn't do a damn thing but confirm that it doesn't shoot for crap and send it back to me with blue-green corroding copper fouling and powder fouling in the barrel. What a drag.
Anyone out there ever have success with Remington customer service?
At this point, I don't think I'll ever buy another Remington product. My girlbuddy Andrea has a Tikka in .270 that shoots a consistent .6". And the trigger is sweeter. And the action is smoother. And it's waaay prettier. And it cost about $100 less.
Anyone want a nicely broken in PS LTR DM in .308?
- - - Smiley

Smiley <mtlsmith@pacbell.net>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 02:04:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.160.52.68)


Terry,

Glad I wasn't there yesterday when Brand was shooting.

Went this afternoon.....1st time I had to crank 7moa into that piddly little 22. Slight easterly breeeeeeeeeeeeeeze.
Mike <appspec1@aol.com>
Granbury, Texas, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 02:08:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 172.168.194.130)


Rich S. There is no choice between the 686 S&W and the SP101. I have owned both. I had the "POWER CUSTOM COMBAT" action job done on the 686, he did what he could for the SP101. I found a new owner for the SP101 in fairly short order. The trigger can't be smoothed up enough on the SP101 too suit me, and it is too heavy for a hide-out gun. Get a 686, have an Action Job done on it if you want it perfect, Night Sights, and maby a Ranch Products Full Moon Clip Conversion if you want the works. My wife loves hers.
Bob <roachw@fidnet.com>
Houston, MO, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 02:40:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.229.69.73)
Just picked up a Savage 10FP Tactical in .223 . Threw an inexpensive BSA scope on it and took it to the range. I was shooting one inch groups at 100 meters. Pretty good for a $420.00 gun and a $100.00 scope!! I do have a nice PSS with Leupold M3. Same results more money. Now why doesn't Savage get more recognition?? Anyone else out there have one of these cool rifles?
Duane <dlgpatent@aol.com>
SanJose, CA, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 02:48:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.173)
Steve,

Ditto for me on what CDC and Pablito stated. I have also purchased and sold a large amount of equipment through the emporium and I have never been burned. In fact, I have gotten some really great deals. I would venture to say that the majority of folks here are mighty upstanding.

Michael
michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
SJ, CA, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 03:05:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.192.208.6)


Ken Hunter....Sounds like the great chuck hunt is a success before it's even off the ground[hog]...Not that one needs an excuse to buy a new rifle....or two even!

Game rifles are the easiest to justify to ones spouse based on the old groceries in the freezer argument. " just think of all the money we save by eating venison!" Haven't ever figured the cost per pound but I know beef is cheaper. The cost per chuck would probably give one considerable pause for thought if anyone was dumb enough to calculate it...The time afield, as we all know, is priceless. And man, when that chuck sails off that rock at the shot, well.........
 

Enjoy your pursuit of the new smokepoles...Calibers???
 

outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Reckon I'll start dusting off the varmint battery in the Alleghenies on day 51, WV, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 03:31:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.67.241.211)


"Try not to hate me. I'm headed to the range that's 6 miles from the house. Yesterday was 78 degrees in the sun. Today looks headed for the same.

Which one of you folks got together and stole Oregon's rain?"
 

Sir Wes -

You need to verify your GPS coordinates. You do not live in Florida. I lived in Medford (Eagles Point, actually) in early 1992 and it never got to 78 degrees in Feb/Mar. You obviously got stuck in some time/place inversion factor.

If I didn't need to earn a living, I might consider returning. There's some very nice country out there.

Moe
 
 

Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 03:59:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.102.181)


Ahhh,...spring!

When a young man's fancy turns to blowing-up large rodents with high velocity projectiles.
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 04:04:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.253.11)


Markwell:

I have a pretty hard eye on the winchester stealth in .223

Let me ask you and the rest of the hogs this one: Seems like the lighter 130'ish? grain boolets in .308 would do well on those little varmints..... why or why not...??.. seems like the hyper drive .22's are the popular caliber for chucks and crows.
 

Ken
Ken Hunter <Rogue308@Riflemen.net>
Gettin' varmint fever, in Northern VA, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 04:12:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)


Brett Massey......You E Mail Addy is bouncing back...can't reply to you..E Mail me direct.

Two Shoes
Terry <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 04:14:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.212)


Moe,

This has been a strange year for Oregon weather. So far we have only 50% of our rainfall that we normally recieve. Outside of one cold snap the weather has been almost spring like the last few days. Plants are starting to form blooms and bulbs are showing signs of growning. REALLY WIERD!

The coast range, where I live, normally recieves 70-80 inches a year.

Love this country, though. Only thing that would make it better would be if we had PA groundhogs to shoot...:-)

Semper Fi,

Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 04:32:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.249.21)


Smiley..........
This, unfortunately has become the norm for Rem of late.......

I have had to either return or take every one I have purchased to the factory warranty service either BEfore shooting, or after a couple of hundred rounds.( the last 4).

ALL PSS models.......
Fortunately for me, they were either replaced(one), or corrective action was taken.
Once corrected .5 moa, and below is normal......

Problem is, their acceptable accuracy standards aren't acceptable........
They consider your 2" group, to be acceptable.

This has all transpired since the D***** people purchased the company.......
Your problem, from what I'm reading is your chamber is indeed crooked........

This was a MAjor fopah several months back with the intro of the Rum's........300's, and .338's....
Seems as if it bled over...........same story with the detachable mag models.

Didn't accept the fact they fopahed them either, and left Joe Consumer hanging by the dimpled chad's........

I'll NOT buy another....only (used) for builders..........

Sorry for your dilema......

Two Shoes

Terry <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 04:34:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.212)


Ken,

Are you feeling the need for speed????

I been cogitating loading some 155 A-Max's in the .300 RUM for just such an occasion. Wonder what kind of velocity I might get, and what it would do to a whistle pig??????

For what its worth, the first 5 shot group from my .300RUM @ 100 yards went EASILY under 3/4MOA. The following four groups stayed under, or at right 3/4 MOA. Thats OEM rifle with OEM ammo.

But it took a while to get out the copper fouling........
 

chao!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 11:48:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.197.57)



Optic and ranging.

For the following size targets when does one become unable to range accurately using the standard USMC MilDot reticle (assume 10 power Leupold and 25 yards increment on ranging limitation).

9", 18" 36" 72"

Thanks

Dave "Doc" King
 

Dave "Doc" King <David_L_King@Yahoo.Com>
Damascus, MD, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 12:54:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 131.158.166.157)


Ken..130s in .308 etc..Some places I shoot you can shoot anything..Other places richochets[sp/] could be a problem..Compared to .....22/55gr. at the same velocity,3100fps, the 130gr/.30 caliber holds up better at 400& 500yds by a fair amount.. Have shot a few whitetails with .30/130s in an old 300 savage in years past and they did a good job..assume they would be just capital for pigs, but., have no personnal experience. I uses the same rifles for both chucks and PDs, so stick pretty much to .223 to insure a constant volume of ammo..Run mine on a 550 Dillon..I know it's herasey[sp], but i shoot the same load in five different .223s..A couple shoot really small groups , the others about an inch + or- a hair[Precision WV unit of measure]..My main rifle is a Bison barreled 700[stainless/fluted/20"] and it shoots bug holes with this bulk ammo. Also have a model 7 and a old H&R Ultra wildcat that shoot about 1"+ or - a hair..Remington classic goes about 3/4", and the newly acquired Kimber 84C shoots 3/4-, better on a good day it seems; haven't shot the Kimber a lot since I've been laid up and am dependant on a ride up to the bench to shoot..Will Have it sorted out, and be more mobile, by the time the chucks are out.

New project is a 700VS in .22-250...Have had several .22-250s over the years and decided to get back into that caliber this winter. Decided to go for a bit more reach. Initial results are promising..My old 16X loopy should be back from Or. soon. Was giving me REALLY eratic groups in initial testing..Switched it out for a old 12X and the problem was obvious..After many years, something let go inside the 16..It's on its way back as I peck. Load development continues..Am shooting for something close to 3600fps with 55gr. BTs..groups so far have been running sub 1". Had to clean up the bbl. channel in the stock and relieve some pressure on the magazine box from the trigger guard/floor plate which wouldn't seat properly..A bit of file work solved the problems.

Bruce..'Lito's a piker; I'll give you $30 for thw skull...
 

outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardyney.com>
Wind's blowing hard enough to blow a 20 pounder off a rock in the Alleghenies.., WV, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 13:53:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.67.241.174)


Does anyone have experience using the Remington 700PSS AND the newer Remington "Tactical Light"? I am interested in the differences you found in performance given the 6" shorter barrel and the lighter weight. Our application will be for "Police Sniper" so shots past 300 yards are not as important as 0-200 yards. Eigher way, go or bad, I would like to hear about your experience with these two weapons. In addition to performance, I am interested in how the shorter, lighter barrel FLIPS and / or if it beats the shooter to death during training. Thanks in advance for sharing your time and valued experience.
KC <swatcop911@msn.com>
Dallas, Tx, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 14:03:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.44.237.222)
Hogs,

The following, is a copy and pasted, body of text sent to me by "Slim" and my response to him sent via e-mail.

I initially sent him a copy of the SC Warning to Minors and Militants after seeing his posting the other day. Here is what he wrote back:
 

>From: Randy McNutt 
>To: Mark Makers 
>Subject: Re: Sniper country "A place to start"
>Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:26:58 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>yes yes yes, i read your thing that states about that
>secret service crap. i hav no life left of being a
>kid. i'm using the marines or military as a way out
>of my life. don't just stereotype me and leave me be.
> that pisses me off. tell me answers to what i asked,
>not cheesy phrases that you giv to the spoiled boys
>and girls of todays society.
>
>______________________________________

MY RESPONSE: sent via e-mail:

"SLIM,"

Ok, you want some advice?

1. Learn to spell, punctuate and use gramatically correct sentences.
2. Do not tell people what pisses you off. They will only use it against you.
3. Take warnings (like the one I sent you) seriously. As a soldier you will get tons of signs that tell you things (like; hmmm, am I walking into and ambush) heed the warnings; they are there for a reason.
4. Using the military as a "way out," is not just stupid but a seriously immature perception of what being a soldier is about. Soldiering is about responsibility, digging in and holding your ground, honor, respect for all things (yourself , your family, your fellow soldiers and citizens etc..) and beleive it or not, your statement about using the military as a way out suggests you are running away, bugging out, surrendering, hiding when you should stand up and fight/ take responsibility. It is also about accountability. In the military running and hiding is not an option.
 

This does not sound like somebody I want humpin the bush with me.

Oh and hint #5...........Do not tell your recruiter or DI at boot camp you joined the Army or Corp to be a sniper.......because if they are worth their salt they'll bounce you like the psychotic you probably are.

This does not mean I beleive my fellow snipers to be psychotic. I do, however, want to suggest that some teenager, who comes to me saying he wants to be a sniper probably has some over inflated concept of what the job actually is and has an admiration for the TV version of somebodies head caught in a crosshair.

Snipers (true/ actual snipers) are groomed from within the ranks and have distinguished themselves while paying their dues in line companies. They are usually the product of years of disciplined training in basic and advanced combat operations, gleemed from attending numerous high speed, low drag schools. They have demonstrated a universal understanding and competency of combat operations and have displayed the ability to adapt to dynamic battlefield and non battelfield environments.

There is also a considerable amount of actual intelligence in the sniper. Here is the rule plain and simple: Smart snipers survive; Dumb snipers.............Die. Usually quite quickly as a matter of fact.

Oh and if any of the words I used were difficult to understand or pronounce; Take it as a sign (refer back to item #3 above.

Mark
 
 

Sorry about the salacious abuse of the bandwidth, I just thought you would like to know.

SEMPER PRIMUS!
MARK
Hey Slim: That means "Always First" in Latin (which is a language) and is the Motto of Pathfinders.

HA!
Mark <beouwulf4_hire@hotmail.com>
Wondering what day care center gave out this website's address, And wondering about the English skills being taught in schools in the good 'Ol, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 14:07:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.114.36)


Morning Hogs...
Catching up on the roster and all this talk of shooting dogs is really giving me spring feaver!! We just got another 8" of snow over the weekend with wind so I can't even call yotes.

Prairie dogs may not be smart but they are damn tough targets to hit past 300yds out here on the prairie. Try hitting a 3 or 4" wide target with a good cross wind while shooting over two or three draws that cut at odd angles across your bullets path. Its a real eye opener!! I'll bet 'lito can tell you some stories about judging wind out here on the prairie(HA).

Ken..
Thanks for posting the nice pictures, I enjoyed them!!

Yote Bate..
Just talked to a kid I know and he was telling me that last weekend he found a spot where coyotes are trying to snag geese off of some open water on the ice. He counted over 20 in one bunch but they won't come to calls and stay about 500yds out on the ice. I have wet dreams about finding a spot like this and taking my 6.5x284 with a good set of range finders and unleashing death and distruction upon them. I'll let you know if it happens.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 14:51:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)


Smiley... :))

Sorry to hear your tale of woe, but if you read back in the Roster Archives for the past two years, you will read a LOT OF THIS...
It has become usual for the "Green Box" riffles.

Remington has had a lot of changes since they were taken over by Stren... they don't do 90% of the repairs anymore... they "Triage" it out to little shops around the country.
You send it to Remington, you get it back from "Freddy's Guns and Tackle Shoppe".

You call Illion-NY, you get a phone "tech" in Virginia, who was selling car parts 6 months ago.

It has been the normal state of affairs for several years... some riffles are good, but many are bad.
Their shotguns appear to be unaffected by all this... they are still very good, but the repair situation is the same. I sent a .410, deluxe 1100 skeet gun to them that would only feed and function if you put two rounds in it, but would dump all the rounds and jam, if you loaded four... and got it back from some jerk that couldn't find anything wrong... he loaded one round, and it feed, and fired ??
A real shooting "Rocket scientist".
If you send a gun to Rem for repair, you MUST... MUST say in the repair request, that it is to be repaired AT THE REMINGTON REPAIR DEPT... and not outside the factory, or you are screwed.

Winchester had these kind of problems many years ago, but they have got their stuff together... every Winchester I've gotten (five), has been 110% right out of the box... I still by Remington riffles, but only the 40 series now.

I would suggest you sell it, and move on to something better, or trade it for something used from a shop that will let you try it, or return what you get.

Or try this... send it to Remington, and tell them the barrel stinks, and you want a new barrel put on (at your expense)... don't spread it around, but they will give you a totally new gun (on your old stock), for under $200...

Markwell...
I'm with you on the cost of Woodchuck "Per pound" ;)))
When you figure in the cost of a premium Varmint riffle... Lupita (or Unertl) scope... loading equipment, Brass/bullets/powder/primers... time working up a load, 4WD vehicle to get up in the good places...

Prime Woodchuck runs 'bout $197 a pound up here ;))

But the time spent under a tree on a hill... with a friend or your son, glassing the alfa, and talkin about nothin'... PRICELESS!!!

Ken (chainsaw ;)
You N-E-E-D two M70 Stealths in .223.
Use V-Max's, at 3300, and you (and Major Kim) will have a ball... :))

On 130 boolets... they are really for light deer, and antelope, and don't expand on varmints... and the .30 cal 110gr "varmint" boolets aren't too accurate, and the BC is so poor, that they loose velocity, and drop fast.

I repeat... "You N-E-E-D two M70 Stealths in .223."
and a bunch of 55 gr V-Max's.

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Rummaging around in the sandpit for some cuck shoot stuff... in the "gettin warmer", USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 15:30:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.36)


Randy, let the kid join the MARINES !

If anyone can give him the good shift kick in the ass he needs then it's the DI's at the island. Maybe, just maybe, they will knowck some sence into him and "Help" him into manhood. If not, they will section 8 him and nothing lost. Hell, being a boot will probably be the FIRST time ANYONE has made him take some responsabiy !

KC
kc <swatcop911@msn.com>
Dallas, Tx, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 16:02:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.44.237.222)


Pat; wake up! It's morning! ha, Geese and Ice and coyotes! Naw,you will wake up in a minute.
Brian; I too saw the trailers on the movie. "Enemy at the Gate"; it looks seriously like it might be really good. I have mixed emotions about all this hollywood attention to Snipers though! Remember the .44 magnum rush when Dirty Harry was introduced. I can see it now! "Attention Walmart Shoppers, todays special on Sniper Rifles is in aisle 6. See the Latest in fashionable Camo and Spotting Scopes are on sale for the next 10 minutes with rebate for $19.99 when you buy Federal Match Ammo in 5000 lot cases!"

Ah too, had a dream, I was on the internet bidding on a M1a! My wife was shaking me awake saying, "That thing cost HOOOOW MUCH?" "But Darling everyone is getting a M1a at the playground. YOu wouldn't want your little boy to be the only kid on the block without one would you!" OmyGod, the bill is in the E-mail this morning! And I thought it was only a dream! Wes, maybe we can get a buddy rate?
 
 

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 16:08:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)


Ken Hunter - where are those pics you mentioned... I can't find a single one of the stalk lanes...

Tony Y - How could I have been passing O2 out when I was the last guy out of the stalk field with a big, dirty grin on my face . Actually, that one crazy guy that stalked the 250+ yard left side of the field came in after me, but he was just completely out of his mind!!!! Talk about a will to win!

PeteR, Team Mussack, "Doc" King, Tony, Ken, Team Sweden, Markwell and all the rest of you... hope to see you at the 2001 competition. I took all my lessons home and I'm better trained than last year... which means I might be able to shoot half as well as Doc and maybe I can hit a mover... (check out the scores). And if not, I'll make damn sure I'm shooting at the mover targets directly above Danny R, so he can help me out like he did the Swedes last year!!!!

Sure hope you are all ready to make it a close match, wouldn't want my win to be too easy. How will I learn humility?
 
 
 
 
 
 

Jim Mitchell <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
NJ, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 16:47:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.20.190.1)


I am buying a remington 700 sendero in 7mm Rem. Mag. This will be my first 7 mag and i was hoping someone would have some good ammo suggestions. I dont reload and need good factory ammo. Bullet weight? Design? Also i was wondering where i could get bullet drop information?
thanks

Denney
spyder <neaced@pr.erau.edu>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 17:14:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.207.155.163)


Hey y'all,

I take it from Litos' remarks about remington, and the poor service and poor rifles that a m70 stealth would be my better choice. but what about a savage or a tikka? Does tikka make heavy barreled rifles or just light weight sporting kinds? Are the police700 rifles or any better quality than the 700VS and 700sendero. Please help me out on this. Also is it a rule to shoot everty AR type rifle with hundreds of rounds and then clean or only chromelined ones?

What is the best sort of 1911 to own, anyone?
 
 

THANKS FOR YOU TIME!
semper fi
Big Will <http://www.Madlogger@hotmial.com>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 18:43:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.82.1.83)


Hey guys, I ran into a Winchester rifle marked U.S.CF 1917 at what I believe to be a steal of a price. I can't find any information on this rifle and Winchester isn't cooperating. Does anyone know the skinny on this thing like what it might be worth? The end of the barrel is stamped 11 on one side & 18 on the other side. The wood is in excellent shape with not much blue left on the steel. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Hawg out!
HawgDawg <rjolly@precisionsolarcontrols.com>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 19:02:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.214.221.254)
OK, Ok...
I've gotten lotsa e-mail on the chuck skull thing.

For you'z bumz that have wasted your mis-spent youth on ground squirrels, PD's, and picket pins... and think chucks are little... go here:

http://www.aspiringtech.net/Pablito/momma-lion-chuck.jpg and

A chuck like this will maybe go 25 pounds, and can tear up a farmer's dog (or a 'yote) somethin' terrible!

The ugly guy holding it, is our own "Mr Mildot" Bruce...

For the scull, go here:

http://www.aspiringtech.net/Pablito/killer-skull.jpg

I went and offered him $47.68 (I busticated the rugrats piggy bank), but still got turned down :((

Jeez, I can't cut no deals on Sniper Country ;((

And would that pissy lady from P.E.T.A. stop e-mailin' me... I DIDN'T SHOOT IT!!!
(but I would have ;))

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Findin' Chuck riffles in the sandbox :))... and it 48 degrees outside :)) in the, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 19:10:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.112)


For the first one... No "AND"

http://www.aspiringtech.net/Pablito/momma-lion-chuck.jpg

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Findin' Chuck riffles in the sandbox :))... and it 48 degrees outside :)) in the, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 19:13:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.112)


Any one use Lputa's ARD? Does it effect the quality of the optics? Does it effectivly cut glare and reflection? Just curious if it is worth the extra $$$.

Thanks in advance.
Chad <rem700_308win@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 19:59:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.52.189.48)


Big Will Re. best1911...I'm not going to start it, I'm not!!!!

KC in Dallas...IMHO the LTR with 20" bbl would be ideal for LE..Lighter, handier, shorter for moving in and around structures than a big gun..Velocity loss should be no big deal at Typical LE ranges..Recoil is not bad at all...I shoot one a fair amount and am slight of build and have no trouble..I'd put a 3.5x10 LR][M1 orM3] or a 6X MK 4[if you can find one] on it. I think it would serve you well..DON'T get the DM model, get a floor plate..
 

Jim Mitchel...Anyone who comes to the Storm match had better be humble as the wind gods are fickle and Rod has a keen eye..Plus, where else can can one embarras[sp?] himself in such good company? See you in Sept.. Healed up or not, I'll be there...Hope they slow the movers a bit this year!!!!!!!

Wind's died, the suns out, and I've got no ride to the bench..Bummer!

outa here
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Wasting away in the gun room on a boootiful day in the Alleghenies, Big WiWV, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 20:26:00 (ZULU) (yo
ost address: 63.67.241.58)


Wasup, Fellas, Ladys if any,

Bravo thanks for the e-mails realy helpful.

I hope to become a regular as I shoot all types or rifles and pistols and handload too. I am interested in doing some matches when I get my .308 m70 stealth is that a good match gun or shoud I go to 7mag? I already have those dies and brass. Also what types of matches can you enter with a .223 auto? I once had a sweet 110 savage 223 tactical rifle It had a lightened trigger and a big burrus target scope, but, It fell victom to theives. You know who you are you mfrs! they also got my SWEET Belgum made browning 2000 model 12 gauge. Lots of clays have fell unharmed and unchiped even since, it really breaks my heart.
 

Any one know of any chuckhunting or groundhog hunting spots around Salsbury, NC? or Rockwell even better?
 

THANKS ALL

'lito thanks for the warning on remingtons they have went south havn't they, (I hate my 1100 it lets the clays fall unharmed as oposed to the browning metioned earlier) but all have in some respect. Hell most cars are made of all different grades of steel melted down and cost 10 times as mush as the old 30s-70s models wich came from steel made from out of the mines.
Big Will <http://www.Madlogger@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 21:20:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.82.1.83)


Going to SM for LR Rifle in April. Do I need to take any replacement parts for my Remington PSS in case somthing should break?
Jim <jjme@westol.com>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 22:52:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.241.39.81)
Doc; "when does one become unable to range accurately using the standard USMC MilDot reticle"
about age 50 I would say.

Ya'll, I would say the best Remingtons are the stainless Sendero's and VSS or VSSF models. I've sXXT canned all my PSS's. Unless you George or somebody to work on it. It's like a 1911 Colt. It's a kit gun! (he he he!) INcoming!
YOu got paint? You can make a Sniper rifle out of a Sendero Stainless that won't quit. If you can find a PSS for sale it will let you down unless your willing to drop a couple G's to a good gunsmith to get it fixed. Remington has a serious attitude problem these days or at least your attitude will have serious problems if you get one of those problems. 2" groups my AXE! Feller brought me a 94 angle eject Winchester 94 in here the other day with a box of Remington factory to sight in with a 4 power Bushnell scope. The 3 shot groups were less than 2".
Some went 1.5".
Tikka, I saw some this weekend, I've seen a hell of a lot worse than that to make a rifle out of. Saw Winchester's too. Somebody down there woke up and said "Let's make some guns!"
 
 

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 22:58:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)


Jim...
>>"Going to SM for LR Rifle in April. Do I need to take any replacement parts for my Remington PSS in case somthing should break?"<<

Yeah... another PSS ;))

Actually, their problems aren't with being delicate... just workmanship issues... it will hold up just fine.

On PSS's... read what 'yote Bate said (also sometimes known [by the IRS, and the local Judge] as Bill rogers)... he's right on. The PSS used to be the top of the 700 line, now it's the bottom of the barrel.
Maybe they think since the cops aren't spending their own money, they won't care???

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Findin' Chuck riffles in the sandbox :))... and it 48 degrees outside :)) in the, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 23:10:15 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.99)


Markwell; forgot to chastise you for the use of oxymorons! If you continue to use made up words like! "best 1911's" I will have to start correcting your posts too! :-)'s X 40. The Devil did that!
Here's a list.
Best 1911's
Good looking Marlin's
Accurate Rugers
reliable Rossi's
Dumb Coyotes
trophy goldfish
clean dumpsters
cheap Hummers
noisy snipers
Lotto winners
Medical Miracles
Ugly women after closin time
+
Just to get you started on the path to recovery!
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 23:14:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Hey all...

I know that this isnt "sniper" related exactly but I've decided to tap KNOWLEDGABLE sources (you guys) for info..

My company (Army Reserve) is going to the rifle range in 3 months and have found out that I am going to be teaching BZO, marksmanship refresher class, etc...

We dont have any of the 25M BZO targets for the M16A2's, and our pubs room doesnt have any relevant pubs that I can reference the NSN for this item.

(Supply and admin people are clueless - we're an ENGINEER unit.)

Any one got the NSN for the 25M BZO targets?
(A2's please, NOT the ones for the A1's!)

Thanks,
~Colin
DakotaAviator <DakotaAviator@hotmail.com>
Grand Forks ND, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 23:16:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.31.111.89)


Howdy,

I need some advice,
I'm going to buy a M70 Stealth, but I don't know if I should go for .308, 22-250, or .223. I do basic hunting, and long range shooting. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Mayhem <killare@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 23:45:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.23.193.191)


"Also is it a rule to shoot everty AR type rifle with hundreds of rounds and then clean or only chromelined ones?"

Big Will
 

Big -

The point I was trying to make with my "highly detailed" cleaning procedure is that that chrome lined barrel is extremely durable. The chrome provides an extremely slippery surface that reduces the build-up of deposits normally left behind by the bullet. If you are using quality ammo, you will find very little residue left behind after shooting hundreds of rounds.

I once went 2,000 rounds without cleaning - 2 patches of #9 cleaned it right up. As a rule, though, I clean my weapons after each shoot - I just don't spend hours doing it.

Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Monday, February 26, 2001 at 23:53:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.105.48)


Bipods

Currently I have a Harris 9"-13" swivel model mounted on my Rem 700P. Last week I went prone at the range (on the 9" height) and noticed that the back of my neck was getting strained trying to get a good cheek weld.

Is the shorter (6"-9") model preferred for prone shooting (not benchrest)? I would have assumed the taller model would give you more options to get onto your target.

Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 00:05:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.105.48)


Moe...

I used to use the 9"-13", but went to the 6"-9", and like it better... a lot of other guys have done the same.

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Gettin the 6mmBR ready, in varmint country, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 00:09:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.99)


I'm lookin into buying a Browning A-bolt II in 223. Have any of you guys heard anything good bout this rifle? Also, thnx for your help concerning my .270 Winchester. I sent it to a good smith and he fixed it up real nice an purty for me :-)

-Chris Pell
Chris Pell <chrispell2000@hotmail.com>
NY, NY, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 00:13:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.184.105.135)


Moe,

Ditto Lito. 6"-9" is the way to go.
Roger C. <madeditor75@hotmail.com>
Freshly back from the range in Austin, Tx, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 00:17:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.72.177)


I've recieved alot of good advice on this page regarding my purchase of a new 700VS SF .308. For this I would like to say thanks. I have been told that the federal gold medal stuff shoots well for factory loads. Does anyone know where I can gat some for a good price?

I also have some questions about the AR-15. About a year ago I bought a NIB Colt match target lightweight 16 inch barrel AR. Since I have had hours and hours of fun with it. Too the tune of about 2500 rounds. At what point should I start to worry about replacing the barrel. I know this is not a "sniper rifle" but the people on this sight seem very in tune with guns period.
 

Thanks again,
Eric
 

P.S
Where can I get .223 ammo in 1000 round lots cheap?

Eric <alpine@coslink.com>
Mich, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 00:18:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.68.237.67)


Bill Rogers...Oxymorons..I guess I'll have to run right out and get me one of them classic Glocks in order to avoid future editing by the sharp witted[sp?]...We're mending just fine . Cheers!

Outa here
Markwell <markwell@hardynet.com>
Fondling custom Colts Iin the Alleghenies on day 53 I think, WV, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 00:27:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.92.148.95)


Dunno about that accurate Rugers being an oxymoron. I have a .243 that just about out shoots all my rifles. Its a ruger stainless all weather in the ugly stock. So long as the bullet weight is kept below 90 grains it shoots likle a champ. Average for me off the bench is 7/8" at 200 yds for 10 shots. Much better with only 5 shot strings ;-). I know they tend to be few and far between but svery once in a while you get that 1 in 1000 rifle from ruger and it is a keeper.

Brian

PS-did not buy this one for myself, came as a birthday gift about 10 years ago. Love my Remingtons, but I do have one ruger that shoots, that is not a revolver.
Brian <pyronecro@email.com>
Columbia, SC, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 00:46:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.88.116.129)


Help, Im trying to find out a rough trajectory guide for my 223.Ive started target shooting with a club that shoots from 300 to 1000 m.I dunno if Iwill have much succes past about 600 although theres one bloke using a 223 with a great deal of succes back to 1000 so Ive heard.Im using a savage 112fv, 62gr projectiles, ar2206 powder wich is vargets little brother.Velocity is 3000fps.I realise my outfit will be different to everyone else but some info to get me on the paper would be great, to 800 just in case.Ihad a look at most of the powder and bullet makers sites without much joy. Norma has aneat program but doesnt list 223 and for the smaller calibres only goes to 300.
out
Gavan W <gwillis@simplex.net>
the occupied, socialist state, of Oz - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 00:52:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 203.87.27.133)
Ken, Lito is right on with the Stealth.. Both of the .308's are shooters and the 22-250 great. 22-250 works great for Michigan chucks and Coyotes. Sold one of the .308's to JC to get an FN. Apparently FN is making the barrels for Winchester and I can't knock the results, solid .75 to .5MOA results for under $700.

Has anyone tried the FN Police Stealth copy? Looks like a claw extractor stealth with a chrome coated bore and SS guts. I have one on the way and will keep everyone posted.

Remington problems - I have had similar experiences with Remington customer service or lack their of. You just have to hound them to death and eventualy they will fix it, but you have to have already diagnosed the problem first. Sent my 3 1/2" 870 back three times for feeding problems before they replaced it. For the $80 in calls and the hastle remington can keep their stuff as far as I am concerned. I agree with lito an others that Winchester is producing very good stuff right now.

Take Care
 

Titan
Titan <haterly1@home.com>
MIchigan, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 01:04:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.252.150)


"If you want to win, you will carry a government model. To say anything else is to flaunt your ignorance."

Jeff Cooper

Argue with him.
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 01:12:04 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.253.11)


Mark, that's "gleaned".........Stick to shooting, scrap the Anglish lessuns......
Mark A. Smith <Windinmane@aol.com>
Lake Cormorant, MS, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 01:34:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.199.157)
"About a year ago I bought a NIB Colt match target lightweight 16 inch barrel AR. Since I have had hours and hours of fun with it. Too the tune of about 2500 rounds. At what point should I start to worry about replacing the barrel."

Thanks again,
Eric
 
 

Eric -

If your barrel is chrome lined, you are good to go for 15-20,000 rounds. Just follow the "explicit" cleaning directions I gave to Big Will (especially the dab behind the ear).

New barrel assemblies (with everything up to the barrel nut) only go for about $150.

Moe

Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 02:05:02 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.105.48)


To Colin- Reference M16A2 Zero Targets
Sir,
The NSN for the M16A2 Zero Targets is 6920-01-253-4005
In case you ever need the NSN for the M16A1 that number is:
6920-01-167-1392...Hope this helps you out.
Bobby Whittington <whittington@snipernet.net>
Grandfield, Ok., USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 02:12:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.71.45.36)
PSS=POS? Man, all this time I thought it was the semiauto guys who were shooting the "POS-9000s", seems Remington got a bit jealous perhaps? They finally found a way to put some inconsistency into those solid as a rock bolt actions! And here I am paying extra to play the semi-auto game. Oh well(shrugs shoulders).
 

That's okay cause one of these days I'm gonna need cheap actions for when I rebarreling a rifle for my own personal collection.

Today was my first day using the lathes at the local Junior College! What little time I had turning down a little piece of 1 inch bar stock was enough to have me day dreaming of the day when I get to turn barrels for building my own AR uppers or rebarreling bolt actions. I'm chomping at the bit guys! Hopefully I'm going to be part of "the next generation" of gun builders.

I'm a little too broke right now to be buying up Remingtons that don't hold up to factory claims but hopefully soon! Gonna need something to work with when turning out barrel burning varmint chamberings.

I'm just not looking forward to the day when I am out shopping for a lathe and mill.

And yes, it's a wonderful experience to be back up at the old Junior College, guys I'm not that old but being back up there is making me feel like it.

Those of you on the Roster reading this and are out there turning barrels and making precision guns(your names have been mentioned several times here in the past so they shouldn't need repeating), I'd like to know how you got started. Did you become a certified machinist first? What other courses or classes did you take that got you where you are today? Did you ever work for one of the "big guys" and work for one of the gun companies like Winchester or Remington? What kind of equipment do you use and recommend?

Much thanks in advance, go ahead and shoot me an email if you have the time.
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Cowpie, Ca, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 02:15:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.161.204.203)


Hey Feller's,
What can you tell me about the 25-06? Is it accurate to 400yds, 600 yds, will it go to 1,000yds with accuracy?
Matt <Matt_l16630@yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 02:46:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.252.45.7)
Doc – Good question and I bet I upset some with the answer. First you are right that part depends on the size of the target, but another part is the trajectory of the bullet. The flatter the better (perk up you mag. lovers!). For this exercise I used 175 grain at 2700 since a bunch have gone to this round. The 168 will result in worse figures for the longer-range stuff. This is based on you aiming at the center of the target and a drop of more than 4.5 inches for a 9-inch target result in a miss low. All of these computations are for a miss low as a miss high is a bad mil reading and shooter error while a miss low will be the result of being outside the ballistic capability of the round. As in the target read is too great to sustain a hit probability. So now then for the 9 inch target the change from .8 mils to .7 mils (312.8 – 357.4) results in a jump that is out of the ballistic capability of the round resulting in a probable hit low. The 18 inch target will only allow a drop of 9 inches thus the change form 1.1 to 1.0 mils (454.9 – 500.4) will result is a sure miss and a change from 1.2 to 1.1 mils (417 – 454.9) will be very iffy but doable based on a .7 inch fudge factor. The 36 inch target will allow for an 18 inch drop and that change occurs at 1.4 to 1.3(714.9 – 769.8) results in a miss. The 72 inch target allows for a drop of 36 inches and this occurs at 2.1 to 2.0( 953.1 – 1000.8) again results in a possible miss. Does this mean that a miss will occur everytime, no. Also this is based on a .1 mil incremental change in ranging. Practice can get you into the .05 ballpark on a regular basis and this edges these figures up significantly. Hope this answered your question and if you want more clarification let me know. I am posting this on the DR for any others that wish the info.

Bill - Actually 54 and still going strong....I think.....can't remeber now though....WHAT WAS THE QUESTION????? Miling WHAT?

Rick

Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 02:59:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.28)


Jim,

I should be at THIS YEARS Rendezvous again, would not miss it for the world. The stories at evening chow time are almost as good as the events.

Humility Lesson???
If Master Rick shows up with his promised crew, you will get a lesson in ABJECT HUMILITY - trust me on this.
Team up a couple of these true Masters as observers for a stalking event and they turn into Berserkers. Tin helmets with horns, battle axes, the whole nine yards.ITS SCARY!!! :-0
 
 

Master Rick wrote,
"Pete – That field looked ok to me the last time I “studied it”. :-)"

You slay me DUDE! :-)) hOPE TO SEE YOU THIS YEAR!
 
 

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 03:03:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.193.49)


Why are there no Winchester sniper rifles? I know Gunny Hathcock era sinpers used M70's for a while but why the switch to Remington. The Winchester Action is defintly a better action.
David <davkenrem@earthlink.net>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 03:17:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.12.15)
Gent's.........

On the PSS rag,Rem is the problem.........as MASTER lito' said.

The ones I had problems with were minor, but who needs the hassle???......

In fairness to the PSS .308's, they WILL shoot durn good.

AS I alluded to in an earlier post, I have never owned one that would NOT consistently shoot .5 moa...........or better.

So, before everyone gets their t*** in a wringer, don't...if yours shoots,,,,,,keep it.

I've yet to try the Stealth model, I like what I have seen, but I have always been a Remmie 700 guy.......

Old habits die hard.........

fwiw

Two Shoes
Terry <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 03:26:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.196.47)


Rosterferians, does anyone remember what unit "Slugboy" is with? There is a good article in the April SOF Magazine about 42 Commando and some poop on the Sierra Leone mission.

Wondering how our Brit buddy is doing, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 03:38:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.54.105)


MikeMiller2, there are 7 steel businesses listed in the Yuma yellow pages. What you want is "E" types or "F" ("Dog") types made out of Brinell 500 or T-1 3/8 inch steel sheet. They can also fabricate frames out of angle-iron, and you can take them to that wonderful Adair County Ranges park and shoot out to 1,000 yards!

Ken Hunter, why go all the way up to Pennsylvania? Have you seen the porker groundhogs they have at Quantico and Belvoir? They've got cigarette packs in their rolled up T-shirt sleeves -- the last one I was gawking at stopped his puffing and asked "What're YOU lookin' at?"! 15 pound fuzzy Shwarzennegers with attitude, indeed! There's gotta be guys out there in Virginia horse country willin' to let you whack 'em.

On the chrome-lined AR break-in, I concur with Moe -- except change the barrel out whenever your chamber throat wears out and no longer gives you minute-of-E-type silhouette, around 7,500 to 10,000 depending on your barrel wear.

Don't use a Jewell AR trigger in a combat rifle. I've had the hammer pins walk out and then lock up the action. Maybe put in JP anti-walk pins.
 

Sinister <david.liwanag@usarec.army.mil>
Yuma, AZ, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 03:59:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.26.122.13)


Greetings gentlemen.

As a confessed lurker, I have a serious question for you all- I have found that I N-E-E-D another rifle. I am looking to order soon a semi custom chambered in 6.5 X 284. I am looking for suggestions on barrel twist vs. bullet weight, as well as pet loads anyone has had success with. Anyone have any opinion of the HS Precision HTR? I have an older HS in .308 and it really shoots (when the nut behind the trigger behaves). Any thoughts shared are appreciated. Thanks for your time.

BT
Bob Tulley <rtulley@home.com>
So County, CA, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 04:49:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.254.50)


Where is Bravo?
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
SJ, CA, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 05:35:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.192.208.6)
Rich S.

Think you need a nice "PYTHON", you know like, well like the one I have right here for example. Smoooth as it's name, with an action like butter. Gloss black blueing early numbers #69xxx. Two barrels 6" and 4", ajustable sights, pac grip, throw in a pair speed loaders and a modified 20mm ammo can that makes the almost bullit proff case, have holsters to if needed.
Have had this colt for over 15yrs but havent used it much. To bizy trying to perfect longer and longer ranges.
I hate the thought of parting with any of my collection, it feels like I am selling one of my kids. But I don't like having things I don't use. I have sold quite a few of the "kids" and i miss them all, but even kids grow up and go away. Anyway if you need one more than myself maybe we could come to an agreement.

***Missing all my kids***
Jim <azgeneral1@aol.com>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 06:30:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.195.192)


I have been following the Remington thread. I have had nothing but good dealings with them, albeit with the custom shop. Mine is a 40x built into an M24 clone. Good shooter.

Tim
Gizmo <ssn581@teleport.com>
Beavercreek , OR, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 07:41:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.26.62.71)


KC- I have both the LTR and the PSS. I just got the LTR a few months ago and am still "playing" with it. It's set up with a M3LR and MK 4 mounts/rings. Over all I think you should give it serious consideration. I have shot for group to 600 with mine and so far it has stayed sub MOA. I may have got a unexpected jewel due to all the complaints of late about Remmy's, but I like mine. The PSS has pretty much stayed in the case since I've had the LTR. As far as the PSS goes I'm very happy with it too, it's a very good out of the box shooter. I think you should try them both and see what rifle trips your switch. For general police (urban)use I would pick my LTR. It shoots good and is much easier to carry in the car, taking up a lot less room. The shorter barrel and overall lighter rifle have me sold when I'm doing anything that envolves movement or stalks. It's just a handier rifle.
 

Moe- Bi pods, Moe keep it low.
joe <spojoehpd@aol.com>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 09:39:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.215.153.173)


BT..

You won't be sorry if you go with a 6.5x284. They are a great long range rifle. If you plan to do long range shooting with the 140s I would go with the 1-8 twist and you can't go wrong with most of the slower powders. I have tried RL-22 and N-165 and H-4831SC they all shoot equally well.

As for the H&S rifle ditto!! I have shot several of their rifles and they shoot well. I don't know if they have decided on a reamer yet for the 6.5x284s. The last time I talked to Janet they were trying to decide on the right reamer size because of all the different brass deminsions out there. I know they make their own reamers inhouse. I would love to try one of JRs barrels in the 6.5x284.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 14:51:38 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)


PeteR wrote: "If Master Rick shows up with his promised crew, you will get a lesson in ABJECT HUMILITY - trust me on this."

Please, let it be true, so that I might learn and not become complacent.
 

Jim Mitchell <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
NJ, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 15:38:41 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.20.190.1)


Lady and Gents,

Had a call from Geoff Corn. My M1A arrived for the "Bravo" treatment. Needed to give it a try. Besides I've always been a fan of the M-14 system. As Bravo says; "NOW you'll have a spotter rifle".

On the Remington note:

I've sold a number to LE guys and they all seem happy with the PSS. Some VS models, as well. All shoot equally well.

My personal 700's are all on actions at least 15 years old so I can't personally comment on the current quality. On the other hand, I have been hearing rumors. I tend to find the old ones and build on that platform...

Semper Fi,

Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 16:01:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 192.6.15.20)


Regarding product problems in general:

How many times have you heard someone bad mouth a product not knowing that you have or have had one and it worked perfectly fine? How many of those complaints are actually user induced? Is anybody or anything perfect?

If you were to judge products based on a few (probably less than 1%, compared to the hundreds of thousands or millions built)then what do you think your next rifle would be built on if you consider;

Savage's aren't as good as Remingtons or Winchesters!
Remington's are POS!
TASCO's are POS, use Leupold!
Leupold's have defects in optics!
HS Precision stocks have built in defects (based on complaint about Remington problems)!
Ruger's have bad triggers!
Winchester's are difficult to bed!
AR's are banned from California (had to throw this one in for obvious reasons)

Sure glad I have one or two Marlin's or Mossberg's laying around, anyone have a McMillian Tactical stock laying around for my Glenfield?

I think that everyone has a right to be upset and complain when they don't feel they are being treated fairly buy a manufacturer or repair facility. And, having been there a time or two myself (luckily not firearms related) being able to air those feeling helps to relieve some of the frustration (my opinion). I also believe that those of use seeking knowledge need to recognise this and as the saying goes, "take it with a grain of salt."

Better get down before I break my soap box....
 

Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 16:45:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.41.43.38)


Byron: Yep. I have a newish Remington 700 that works just fine. Except for the trigger adjustment and the B-Square screws torqued to 65 lbs, it's right out of the box. Factory ammo shoots pretty damned good.

I guess that no-one calls customer service to congratulate them for giving better than expected value.

There may be QC problems at Big Green, but its not all doom and gloom.
 

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 17:14:17 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.253.11)


Bill Rogers:
Regarding your list "...for the use of oxymorons!" and "Cheap Hummers..."
Evidently, sir, you were never with MY friends on R&R in Bangkok!
I will admit, one does tend to pay for the cheaper ones for weeks to come.... Quad-HA! ;-) Another use for Hope's #9 on a patch!
I'm sorry for the BAD pun ... couldn't resist ;-)))
Semper Fi,
Griff
Griff <G_Griffin @AFI.com>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 17:25:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.244.73.153)
Byron...
I think you missed something here on the Remington thing.

This is NOT a few grumblings from less that 1% of the owners about a few guns... this is a pattern that has been going on for years.
The repair department is less 20% of what it was befor the Stren take over... most of the skilled gun makers have been replaced by younger guys with no gun experence... Remington does NOT do most of the repairs that are sent to them... they farm out the repairs to small shops, because they have cut their own repair department.

There are certain problems that happen in the course of things... a trigger that is too heave, a bedding that is a "bit" off... but the problems that are happining at Rem are very different... stuff id coming out the door that should never passed first inspection.
The reason is, they have replaced skilled gun makers, and skilled inspectors, with new, cheap labor... and these people don't know that it's a problem if the feeding is rough (it DID go into the chamber!)... and what's the difference if the barrel is off to one side of the channel.. it STILL SHOOTS!!.

Look back over the last thre years of the roster, and you will see complaints that should have never left the factory... lots of them!

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 17:25:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.62)


Rick-A belated thank you for taking the time to answer my e-mail about the post reticle of known moa dimensions.

Congratulations on graduated 16 of 24 students. Would you share with us what item(s) give your students the most problems? Is it the shooting or some other problem that causes the most failures? If you have already posted this, just direct me to the archives. Thanks.
 
 

HDR
 

HDR <hprudisell@aol.com>
Bartlesville, OK, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 17:31:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.104.151)


Gentlemen:
I have an M1A with an ARMS#18 Mount, which I am planning on scoping with a TASCO SS10X42M. I am looking for good QD Rings and thought I would ask your collective wisdom on which way to go. i.e. Brand as well as High, Medium, or Low height rings. I want to keep the profile as low as possible
Respectfully
Hans
Hans <lrayner@southwind.net>
Buhler, Kansas, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 17:35:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.252.188.168)
Byron & CDC - The Issues being addressed by Lito, Myself, and others is not one of pissing on Big Green, it is one of servicing a customer after money has been sent on the product. I am in the Service/Mfging business and I preach constantly to my people about quality and the Customer comes first. Without the customer I cease to exist as a business. This is not to say that mistakes( Honest ones) are not made, I know they are. But I sure don't ignore my customer and tell then to piss up a rope. I feel it my duty to correct whatever problem there was with the product to very best of my ability. Sometimes I even give more than I should, but when that customer refers you to another, it pays off in the long run. Even when the customer is wrong, there are professional ways to resolve the problems that arise. Ultimately if the problem is not solved, word gets out that a company does piss poor work and people go else where. This is the case with Remington as I see it. Remington is not honoring the warranty, and it is pissing people off. Is everything they ship junk, heck no. But the few that are bad, are not being corrected.

An example of excellent Customer service is Armalite. While I am sure there are those Armalite Customers that are unhappy for some reason, I know from first hand experience that they correct problems that are Warrenty Issues. Even tough I am a AR-10 fan and own a couple, this is not a paid endosement. LOL

We have to keep in mind that we are splitting hairs here, and that for the most part the Avg shooter is happy with things none of us will tolerate. I sincerely hope that someone from Stren/ Remington is reading this roster and taking these unfavorable coments to heart.
If they are, How about 5R barrels like the old days? Please.......

Just my humble opinion, for what its worth....
 

Titan
Titan <hatherly1@home.com>
Michigan, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 18:37:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.252.150)


Pablito: Looking over the roster, the problems with Remingtons that you discuss would not have been produced by an adequate process. A company like Mazda, or - I would imagine - SKB, would have completely redesigned the process if it produced a small fraction of the defects produced by Remington's process.

Someone had to get lucky. This time it was me.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 18:43:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.253.11)


I want to load up some 175 gr for my 308. I'm going to use Fed primers and Fed brass. I got a lot of IMR4064 what is a good starting point?
 
 

LeMay OUT
LeMay <M40A1SNIPER@att.net>
MI, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 18:49:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 204.24.102.133)


Titan: I agree. A satisfied customer tells a couple of close friends. A delighted customer tells twice as many people. With an unsatisfied customer, its a little more than that. If the customer truly believes he got screwed, he tells everybody that will listen. It spreads like wildfire. Customer service is the key.

L.L.Bean knew all that. Lands' End uses it. Remington doesn't appear to have picked up on the lesson. There's a big opportunity here for Winchester.

CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 18:54:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.253.11)


CDC...
Yup... this time it was you, and a lot of guys are "lucky".
There are good ones out there... probably most of them, but the number of problem 700s and PSS's is too high to be acceptable, and talking about them out loud here, will give guys a heads up, when they go to the gun shop.
Read this stuff, and when you go to plunk your money down, you will look at the crown, look at the stock channel space, and see if it's the same... try the trigger, maybe try the action with a "dummy" round, check other "basic" things before signing the yellow sheet.

Winchester had some of these problems years back... they were in the original building from the 1800'and it was a disaster... but in '94, they built a totally new plant, with all new, state of the art machines and equipment, and now, the demand for Stealths has overwhelmed their ability to make them.

Remington still has many of the same problems... they are still in the same building that they were when they made Civil War guns... it's old, expensive to heat... there cost of doing business is high, and they have serious labor/union problems... PLUS... they have been bought by a company that is not commited to guns (sound familar??... think S&W, Lyman, RCBS, Weaver, and the list goes on).

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 19:01:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.132)


Ok.. so Remington has their problems...
Carpe Diem and all that..

How about some of you guys with more experience in this area list the top 10 or 15 things you would ALWAYS check if you were looking at a gun in a shop and going to buy it? (Sniper type rigs...)

I'd rather learn from someone elses mistakes than make my own.

~DakotaAviator
DakotaAviator <DakotaAviator@hotmail.com>
Grand Forks, ND, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 19:46:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.129.136.166)


Doc – More info on your max mil question. There is another thing to remember on the max mil and that is when the strike of the bullet will still hit the top of a target if that target is miled too far away. As an example, the target is a 36 inch target and you mil him at 1.3 mils or 834 yards, then you will miss over the head if the target is really 1.4 mils. Now then the 72-inch target is disceptive as the target aim point is really the same for the 36-inch target. Thus you have 54 inches of drop before you run out of target. That puts you at 1.9 or 1053 still hitting a target at 1.8 or 1112 while the over the top shot is still figured at 18 inches.

Now there is a possible error on my part of not understanding your question. Did you mean when the error of a mil reading makes it impossible to hit or when the mils becomes so inaccurate that they can’t hit? If that is the case then you must compute when the mil reading leaves a gap between two mil readings that is greater than the next mil reading with its trajectory. As an example, a 36-inch target leaves a gap of 178 yards between .8(1251yards) and .7 mils (1429 yards). No matter how good you are, you can not hit a target that resides in between those two extremes. The trajectory will not permit it. Essentially when the swept space of one mil range does not meet the swept space of another mil range then you have reached the probable error distance for that sized target and that round.

Now is that clear as mud or what?!

Pete – The only abject humility will be mine when you young guys whip my old butt!

Rick

Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 20:58:47 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.104.33)


DakotaAviator wrote,
"How about some of you guys with more experience in this area list the top 10 or 15 things you would ALWAYS check if you were looking at a gun in a shop and going to buy it? (Sniper type rigs...)"

My opinion:
Go to a large retail outlet (Walmart or Dicks) and buy the least expensive Remington M700 you can find with the right bolt face. Or pick up a used rifle at at the right price.
Throw away the stock and the barrel.
Take what's left to a good riflesmith and have him build you a rifle.
Remember these names: McMillan, Hart, Badger, Leupold, Federal

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
 
 
 

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 21:02:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)


Bravo:

Give us a post man others miss you too!
 
 

Moe:
Thanks for the advice, I take it AR weopons are barreled in hard metals and are made rugged for all purpose combat use, as opposed to finer match barrels on bolt guns. Also the .223 or 5.56 doesn't wear as hard on any thing as a mag bullet with lots of powder.
 

ALL qualified advisors:

I too along with B. DOUGLAS am interested in machining: as far as gun making please give us both a reply on that. I am planing on joining the core to spot/snipe if I cant make the score perfect on the PFT (I HAVE ALL THE OTHER GIFTS FOR IT IM JUST A FAT BODY/STILL CANT DO A PULL UP IF I EVER GO TO THE BUSH AS AN INFANTRYMAN I WILL HAVE TO TOTE THE FRAPPIN M-60!) I will chose another MOS like machining or armory like the rifle builders in Quantico.

All others: Keep up the GOOD work!
Big Will <Madlogger@hotmail.com>
cabarrus county, NC, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 21:52:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.82.1.83)


Mildot experience and thoughts this week!

Made it all the way through Range 10 on the CD this weekend. Overall average is still around 5 for 10 first round hits. Average on distances past 800 yards is about 25%, on distances from 600 to 800 is about 50%, now up to 100% on all distances below 600 yards. Hits in the red square are averaging about 50% overall. Most of this is luck me thinks. I start on the movers next and will go back all the way again. I did not record any poop on any of the targets so that they will be fresh again.

Main problems I have noticed:

NOT PAYING ATTENTION on dialing windage. Adjusting right when should be left and vice versa. This is a stupid mistake.

Coming up short on long targets. I am now adding 20 yards to each shot between 600 and 800 yards and 40 yards from 800 to 1000 yards no matter what I mil.

The interpolation formulas seem to work well.
 

It would be nice to have input from those of you that have used the CD and also have real live experience with milling just to see if they are truly similar.
 

After this excercise, I may seriously consider a Shepard scope. It is really difficult to do this for real with limited range time.
 

Doing better and learning more, Bolt out!
 

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 22:28:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.54.192)


Moe, thanks for the heads up. FYI REMINGTON - I called their TOP LE rep today, he says if you can believe this, that 2 moa is acceptable for the PUBLIC and 1 moa is acceptable for POLICE. NOW HEAD UP - He told me that THERE ARE 700PSS'S NOW FLOATING AROUND THAT HAD THE WRONG FIRING PINS PUT INTO THEM BUT THEY DON;T KNOW WHICH GUNS IE: SERIAL NUMBERS! HE ALSO TOLD ME THAT SOME OF THE LTR'S GOT THE INSODE OFTHE BARRELLS COATED WITH EXTERIOR COATINGS BECOUSE THE PLUGS WERE NOT PLACED RIGHT WHEN THEY WERE TREATED. He still maintains that Remington produces fine products and provided me with the name / number of the FBI in Va to talk to about their weapons. I was also told that if I had ANY problems to BE SURE AND TALK TO A LE REP AT REMINGTON and tell them it was an LE gun. There are NO LE customer service reps, just the plain jane customer service reps and that "They don;t know how the law enforcement end works". So as far as I am concerned I am back to square one. Remington admits they have problems and admits that warrantyt work IS NOT done in house unless you specifically request it ie: LAW ENFORCEMENT. I an not an armor so how the hell am suppost to know if I get one of the guns with the wrong firing pin. After all he did say that "Almost everyone will never know they have a gun wit the wrong pin unless they have a problem with the weapon. I DON;T WANT THE HAVE TO WAIT AND FIND OUT I HAVE THE WRONG FIRING PIN WHEN I NEED THE WEAPON TO WORK! I guess this dumb old cop will have to go to armor school or something. It's a shame quality has gone down the toilet !
KC <swatcop911@msn.com>
Dallas, Tx, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 22:48:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.62.168.111)
DakotaAviator...
>>"Ok.. so Remington has their problems...
Carpe Diem and all that..."<<

Sorry you're so bored with this thread... but then why would you want a list of 10 or 15 more boring things that can be wrong?
 

KC...
"...that 2 moa is acceptable for the PUBLIC".
... and PSS's at $750 + a pop?

Not this public, thank you... I'll get mine in RED boxes... none of my RED box numbers has ever shot AS BAD as 1"
... And nobody can figure why stealths are so "in demand".

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 23:03:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.16)


Uuummm, have you folks been following the David and Sallie posts on the Emporium? Let's take a look here!

Sallie and David were going to get hitched. Sallie bought David a SLR8 for an engagement present. Sallie said David cheated on her. Sallie puts gun up for sale. David titles next post "Marry Me" and in the post says he's sorry it didn't work out. Is this confusing or what?

Suggestion to David - get down on your hands and knees and beg that woman to take yo alledged cheatin butt back. Any woman that would buy a guy a brand spanking new rifle for 'just' an engagement present is a worth carpet burns. Just think what she would have bought you AFTER you got married! You could have ended up with a brand spanking new Jerry Rice or Chandler special! Some folk's youngins I just don't understand.

You single Rosterferians better email this fine lady BEFORE rifle is sold!
 

Must be a full moon, Bolt out!

Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 23:07:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.50.54.192)


Hey guys,

I keep readings posts that are talking about stealths,and red boxes.
What are these? Obviously it's a rifle, but what is it and who makes these? would you consider them to be a better rifle than the Remingtons? It seems like alot of people are ripping on Remington. Which seems odd to me cosidering the following Remington seems to have.

Thanks,
Eric

P.S-
Thanks to roger for the info on Ammoman.com
Eric <Alpine@coslink.com>
Mich, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 23:40:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.68.237.33)


Ok had to come back to much knowledge here to pass up.
Anyhow got a problem with a friends gun I cant seem to figure out.
The gun is a used custom rifle,,douglas barrel, on a mauser action,,7mm remington mag scoped with a nikon. all on a mcmillan stock. Problem,,varrying accuracy. one day the rifle will shoot like it should,,the next bullets flying everywhere. Now we have tried every kind of ammunition available in the area, and the only thing it seems to shoot good is winchester Xs in 150 grn. everything esle looks like scud missiles trying to hit the target.
He is in the process of buying a reloader to do some homeloads now but I cant imagine a custom rifle like that not being able to shoot most factory at least satisfactory.
So without taking it to a gunsmith,,any suggestions? Possibly throat to worn and if so how do I check?

ses
Partison

Partison <Partison@hotmail.com>
Kalispell, Mt., USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 23:45:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 206.252.229.237)


Whazzup guys?

After reading some of the posts from some of you guys regarding Remmys quality, I believe that mine is pretty good for the most part. I purchased my 700 Police last year and have decked it out with the Loopy and the Badgers ect.. It will shoot 1/2 moa. However, barrel break in SUCKS! I believe my barrel was the last one machined before they realized the cutter was getting dull. Machine marks are visible with the naked eye at the muzzle. Just out of curiousity, can anybody tell me if there is light at the end of the tunnel? With the rifle shooting this good, I really do not want to rebarrel at this time. Also, does anyone from TX know where some tac-matches can be found here in the state.

Thanks Deno
Deno <rrrdean@mindspring.com>
Fort Worth, TX, USA - Tuesday, February 27, 2001 at 23:50:16 (ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.55.14)


Quality Control Issues:
A little blast of someone other the Big Green.
Nov 2000 Vancouver City Police ERT ran an Andvanced Sniper Course, during the course one constable fell out of a tree and snapped the McMillan stock on his PSS. An inspection of the stock found a large air bubble (were it broke). Mc had several (some times heated)discussions denying that one of theirs could ever break. Then saying that it must have been run over by a vehicle. When the stock was shipped to Mc - it apparently never made it. Mind you you might think that it should have been shipped signature required.
Kevin of the GWN <bolandks@home.com>
Canada - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 00:18:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.71.223.143)
I have a question regarding my Leupold Long Range M3. I zeroed it today at 100 meters. I tried to slip the scale to 100 meters but was unable. Because of the stop on the turret it seems like it must be zeroed at 300 meters. I guess that's OK because there's only a couple inches difference in drop between 100 and 300 meters, but wonder why it is calibrated on the scale below 300 meters? I checked my literature that came with the scope but found nothing helpful. Thanks for any info.
John
John <jkubrock@hotmail.com>
AZ, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 00:36:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 162.42.111.118)
Glad all the gripin finally reached a man with the right size boot and the rocks big enough to greaz it and kick it up Remingtons ass. WE ALL APRECIATE IT and are glad of the bad response it only proves our gripes to be true.
2 moa LOL

What fool doesn't know what kind of rifle comes in a RED box, besides MARLINS (same company anyway)???

Does any one else wish that Browning whould fall in and make some bullbarreleds also? Is the A-bolt reciver worth a hart barrel if they don't? ANd who whould make a QUALITY stock to house such a rig?

Dont any one start knocking brownings I know the present ones may be crap but the old BELGUM made ones weren't and look at all the FALs made by the bigger outfit that is a part of browning or browning is a part of not sure wich.
 

My 3 cents: Untill a later date...
 
 
 

Big Will <http://www.Madlogger@hotmail.com>
Cabarrus, NC, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 00:38:20 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.82.1.83)


Reeldoctor,

Coincidence, I'm just back from a deployment (for a couple of weeks anyway) Thanks for asking but God forbid I'm not a 'SeaHat' (Leg, waterleg is US I guess)
No my dear boy, 1st Bn. The Parachute Regiment (doesn't take us as long to get into theatre) Healthy rivals but duelly respected

Slugboy
Slugboy <Slug.boy@virgin.net>
England - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 00:42:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 62.253.64.4)


John...
your cam (BDC) is defective... sent it back, with a letter discribing the problem, and tell them you want a new one. The proper cam WILL drop right on at 100.

Big Will...
Marlins may come in a red box, but they have no connection with the company that has "THE" Big red box ;))

FN sells a rifle with a Winchester barrel, a M70 claw feed Action, removable magazine, and a Winchester stock... Hmmmm
Go here
http://www.fnmfg.com/lawenf/rifle/riflemain.htm
 

'lito
 

Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 00:53:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.16)


Big Will -
"Thanks for the advice, I take it AR weopons are barreled in hard metals and are made rugged for all purpose combat use, as opposed to finer match barrels on bolt guns. Also the .223 or 5.56 doesn't wear as hard on any thing as a mag bullet with lots of powder."
 

Big -

I believe that all AR barrels from the same maker are made out of the same type steel. End use is the concern. The primary difference is in the lining, or lack thereof. For example, Colt's standard AR barrels are chrome lined for durability in military or tactical usage. Their match barrels are unlined for better accuracy. In a military scenario, you may not have the luxury of time to clean your barrel after every few rounds like the bench shooter does! LOL

The same with the chamber. .223 is not 5.56. A match chamber (.223) is made to tighter tolerances and likes to eat a very specific diet of match quality ammo. A rifle specifically chambered in 5.56 (military) has looser tolerances and really doesn't care what you feed it. It's primary mission is to rock 'n role, not hit the "X" on every shot.

As far as wearing things out, remember that any 5.56 round loaded to mil specs (IMI M193/M855, Win Q3131A) is going supersonic when it leaves the muzzle. That sounds a bit fast to me and is probably very good at wearing things out - hence the chrome lining on military barrels.
 

BIPODS
I'm going to pop for the Harris 6-9" and really learn how to eat dirt!

Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 00:58:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.12.105.49)


'Lito - I talked with an engineer at FN last week when I ordered my rifle and he gave me some insight into the barrel on the FN and the Stealth. Apparently, FN is making the barrels for all of these rifles using the same process they use in making machine gun barrels. He discribed it as a pressed barrel using a 250 ton press. I never heard of the process, but maybe you or some others might be able to shed some light here. Fn claims that no cutting is involved in the blank production, and that after cryo treating the blanks they are chambered and fitted. From what I have personally seen with my Stealth's something is being done right. The FN rifle has a chrome plated bore and chamber, but FN told me they will garentee 1MOA. The engineer I spoke with indicated the FN's will shoot as well if not better than the Winchester's. I should have mine in a couple of weeks, and will be happy to let everyone know how it turns out. These things are supposed to have the HS mag system, HS stocks, and Stainless Steel guts. I was also told that FN will have as many as six models on the market with in a year different options. It looks like they want the old PSS business if it turns out as advertised.
 

Gooch - Are you still looking for land in NE Alabama? If so I have a lead for you through a third party. Drop me an Email if you are and I will give you the details.
 

Respectfully

Titan
Titan <hatherly1@home.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 01:56:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.4.252.150)


Titan...
That makes sense, since H-S makes the Winchester target/Stealh stocks, and H-S has, what appears to be, the only detachable magazine system around that works right.

'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 02:04:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.16)


'lito - AICS 5&10rd Det mags

Got a M118 BDC for my M3 - Suprisingly it tracks the Fed GM2 extraordinarily well out to 900m. I know it should, but...
Yes I know, count clicks anyway.

Titan 'lito, Moe etc. Diemaco does the same sort of hammer/press forging with the C7 barrels and they can be sub-MOA.

Like most hot selling products the companies get too big and start to forget about their customers - until they get a big kick in the ass - as the sales (and stock) falls.
 
 

Kevin of the GWN <bolandks@home.com>
Canada - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 02:50:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.71.223.143)


Lito...

>>>"DakotaAviator...
>>>?"Ok.. so Remington has their problems...
>>>Carpe Diem and all that..."
>>>Sorry you're so bored with this thread... but then why would you >>>want a list of 10 or 15 more boring things that can be wrong?"

Bored with the this thread?

Not in the least! I am actually very very interested in this.
 

Let me rewrite that last post I made, apparently I am not making my intent clear.

"Ok.. so Remington has their problems..."
-From all the post here we are all aware that Remington has problems. By now this is a fact known to anyone who spends more than 10 minutes reading this roster.

"Carpe Diem and all that..."
-Buyer beware (like I had to explain that to you guys)...
Well I (and I am sure others as well) want to know WHAT to beware of with Remingtons rifles.

9 out of 10 guns I have owned were "hand me downs" from relatives as gifts or payment for work I have done for them. I have not YET had the pleasure (?) of being able to shop around for a rifle to spend some hard earned cash on.

What I meant in that earlier post was; what are the top 5, 10, 15 (whatever) things that are most important (even crown, etc) in picking one rifle over a similar rifle?

Hey, I know airplanes. I know what I will and WONT accept in an aircraft that I fly, rent, buy. I've got a method and key points that have to work or at least meet the minimums.

What I dont know yet, at least to the extent that some of you guys do, is the good and bad little details in buying bolt action rifles.

Enlighten me.

I thank you in advance and appoligize for the misleading post.
 

DakotaAviator <DakotaAviator@hotmail.com>
Grand Forks ND, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 03:07:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.129.187.15)


I need some help!

Can anyone provide some pictures of the glaring differances
a person would make if they wore black bdu's in a wooded setting
vs a person wearing camo bdu's? Or the differances in tiger stripes and camo bdu's?

My team commander is not real up to snuff on camoflouge and
before I can convince him in a field setting, I would like to take
show him some photos, then take him to the woods.

I downloaded some of the really good pics from the gallery here but
would like to add some more.

Pakrat
Pakrat <psfamily@mail.com>
Hempstead, TX, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 03:10:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.218.245.6)


Oops...

Caveat Emptor not Carpe Diem...

I blame the fatigue from 4 hours of class and 6 hours of flying today.

I.M.S.A.F.E.

Hardly...
DakotaAviator <DakotaAviator@hotmail.com>
Grand Forks ND, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 03:19:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.129.187.15)


DakotaAviator...
>"Carpe Diem and all that..."
>-Buyer beware (like I had to explain that to you guys)..."

Yup... you gotta explain it to somebody (but especially your teacher)... "Carpe Diem" means "Seize (or TAKE) the Day"

"Caveat emptor" means "Buyer beware"!!

Though I'll be the first to admit that Latin is a real Achilles' heel for me.

Don' do so good in 'panish either ;((

---

Kevin of the GWN...
"Got a M118 BDC for my M3 - Suprisingly it tracks the Fed GM2 extraordinarily well out to 900m."

Well, of course Dude

'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 03:21:13 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.103)


just received my savage 10 FP and i'm in the process of mounting the simmons 44 mag scope. I need experienced suggestions on the best mounts and rings to purchase. I plan to use the rifle for field use and some noncompetitive benchrest shooting at ranges from 200 to 350 yards. This rifle is chambered in .223. Thanks in advance
mike edgcomb <tmmces@fidnet.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 03:42:09 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.229.73.66)
'lito - 'Well of course dude' Sarcasm I assume? -everyone has given me horror stories of the M118 BDC.

Two Shoes - yeah, didn't think like that.
Anyone else have problems on Adult Signature Required packages - as in just left on the porch?
 
 
 

Kevin of the GWN <bolandks@home.com>
Canada - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 03:50:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.71.223.143)


RE: Anyone else have problems on Adult Signature Required packages - as in just left on the porch?

Happens all the time at the casa de Roger. It's nice to come home to a box full of stuff that goes boom, but...well, you know.
Roger C. <madeditor75@hotmail.com>
Austin, Tx, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 03:58:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.72.177)


Moe:
SOOOO sorry to be so general and let you shoot me down like that. Didn't mean to cunfuse anyone by saying 223/5.56 just a habit. I seem to have the foolish idea that .223s don't eat barrels out like Magnums do they have a BIG difference in case capacity. For example 300winmag : it takes 61 gr. of imr4895 to push a 180gr SMK only 2822fps
223: takes only 24.5gr. of the same powder to push a 69 gr. SMK 2710fps
 

I was mearly suggesting that the lesser powder capacity of the 223 would permit longer barrel life in any weapon chambered for that round.

Next time don't get so defensive I don't know as much as you GRANTED, I am new to rifles I am old to shotguns though not that I am a load wizard for them either, or do I claim to be a big expert.
 
 

Secondly 'Lito:

I am sorry for saying that Browning makes FALs, what I meant was their father company FN desined the original pattern of the FAL to my knowledge.
Are we speaking of Winchester as far as THE RED BOX cause as far as I know Winchester is related to Marlin. If we are not Speaking of Winchester though please let me know.
 
 

Big Will <http://www.Madlogger@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 04:56:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 166.82.1.83)



On Remington PSS'?..my 26" PSS bought in 1994 was a POS. Would not group under 3/4" ever. Normally, I would have been happy but my friend's 24" PSS bought in 1991 was a one holer from day one so I knew things could be better. Chandler re-crowned it, cleared the camming surfaces and made it a little better. Rather than throw it in the dumpster, I gave it to John Eckenrode. John set the barrel back 0.700" and rechambered it to get the proper throat for 168 Sierras. John found it to be 0.009" out of concentricity. Bored out guard bolt holes. Shoots in high .2's now. Barrel still fouls like a bitch. $170 to Chandler. John Eckenrode got $175 so $345 pissed away so far to fix a brand new $780 rifle. A new Hart barrel costs $320. Hummmm?.. doesn't take long to figure it out! It is currently being rebarreled to .223.

So problem number 1: Crown
problem number 2: throat way too long
Problem number 3: chamber not concentric with bore
Problem number 4: Rough barrel
Problem number 5: guard bolts impacting bedding block
Problem number 6: fore-end slapping barrel on firing

Unacceptable.

KC SWAT dog: Save your money on armorers school. Last hour of a three day course spent on 700. Changing extractor and removing action from stock are the highlights. Don't ever touch trigger. Nothing said about taking the barrel off. I got the distinct impression that was also a no-no! :-)

Have fun.
 
 

Bill0294 <lhardin21@netscape.net>
Clearwater, FL, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 05:13:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.28.56.240)


Folks,

Just perused the RSR Wholesale site (www.rsrwholesale.com). They have Winchester M70 Stealths in .223 (stock #: WN535-027208). No .308's in stock. Price is competitive with the guys in the Green Box.

Hope this helps those of you looking. MY .223 project is on hold until I find out what my M25 is going to cost...

For those of you inquiring about the 6.5 X .284 send me a message off line. I won't waste space here...these guys already know what a great cartridge it is even if THEY won't convert.
Use a 1:8" twist and 140/142 grainers and you're home free.

Ever try preaching to a bunch of sinners asking they repent?

Semper Fi,

Wes
(The Reverend)
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 05:20:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 198.145.248.72)


DakotaAviator:

"I blame the fatigue from 4 hours of class and 6 hours of flying today." - Bragger!

P.S. I believe there are a few pilots amung the sneaky footed here.
Hank <ninesoft2@earthlink.net>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 05:38:40 (ZULU) (your host address: 65.7.134.51)


KC,

You mentioned that there were no LE customer service reps. I checked out their LE contact information webpage and it does show someone listed in this capacity. The information can be found at http://www.remingtonle.com/supporte intact.htm .

This still may not help. Even if the rifle was built for military/LE use (even though available to the general public) their support rep may say that because you are not a LE agency that you have to deal with general service reps (have had similar experience with other products).
 

To ALL,

I believe that someone has all ready touched on the problem. The company was bought by a group that apparently is not interested in firearms except from the standpoint of what the profit margin will give them. They have reduced the quality of the initial product, probably through cut backs and lessening of quality control checks. They have reduced the level and quality of customer service. Those at the top are either not being told the truth with regard to the true current status in these areas or has choosen to ignore it.

We let our politician know what we think of them before elections or important measures come before them and maybe it is time that WE do the same with the Remingtons of the firearms industry. I think that S&W is a good example of this and hopefully they have gotten the message.

Got to be carefull, I just found out my soap box is made of cardboard and not wood!
 

Byron <byburnham@earthlink.net>
CA, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 06:47:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.41.43.38)


I lost 140lbs. 3 years ago and was glad to see her walk out the door.To selabrate I went out and bought a new rifel,a Remington 700 ADL at wallyworld. 270WIN all the problems that have ben discused hear it had.However the chamber is in line with the bore.I had to straten the barell and do a lot of hand laping the bore was just to tight.re cround it shot it and laped some more.After about 12 or maby a little more hrs.It shoots darn good .Yes I did glass bed and free float also 1/2" AT 100 YDS.

I bought a new Winchester a year ago Clasic Super Express. A real beauty in 416 Rem. Mag. Open sights 3" at 75yds.not bad for a blind old f--t like me.But I had a problem with the finish I thought it should be better than it wase.I called a factory rep,he told me to send it back and thay would look it over. If thay re blued it thay don a darn good job it looks like thay put a new barrel on it. at eney rate I am pleased as I can be.

Both rifels ar Works of art.Unlike my X.And I have ben LOL for 3yrs. now and love every minet I spend with all my new girlfrends and the old wons to thay only talk when I load them and pull the triger.
Bud <offah@hotmail.com>
Greens Fork , In. , USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 08:37:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.106.153.61)


Ref: Sniper Falls from Tree
Yikes!!! Haven't seen that since watching "Sands of Iwo Jima".
If the stock on a PSS broke it's H&S you should call not McMillan.

Ref: Rough Barrels & Quality
I've had Remington barrels that shot well but would foul so badly that I rebarreled just to save money on patches and bore cleaner. My Hart barrels clean up quickly and don't sweat green for days like factory. It may be related to the mirror finish in the bore.

You get what you pay for.
If you want GOOD: Buy a PSS and shut up.
If you want BETTER: Get a PSS tune up.
If yo want BEST: Have a rifle built and pony up.

Compared to so many other things in life $3,000 for a world class long range rifle seems like a real bargin.
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 12:53:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.80.33.70)


700P? Mine shoots in the mid .3's with handloads and a trigger job. Out of the box, the barrel was off center, the stock had to be inletted and the trigger was set to gorilla. The throat is long..... 2.910 OAL to the lands. More than 1/10 of an inch out?????You've got to be kidding me. How much of a liabilty buffer does Remington need anyway? Fed 168 GM shoots .5 -.6 and handloads shoot in the mid .3's. BTW, my handloads are .030 off and don't fit in the mag.......

Texas Brigade Armory update:

I GOT IT. Finally.....is it worth the wait? Fit and finish is excellent. Accuracy so far is outstanding with my 700P load of 168MK over 44gr Varget, adjusted to .010 off lands, shooting in the high .2's. .276 was the best 5 shot group so far - shooting off sandbags using a beanie. I'm more into handloads right now but three shots of Fed 168GM measured .273. BTW, Fed GM is .020 off - now that's throat!
breakpoint <breakpointx@yahoo.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 14:10:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.3.204.222)


All this talk of Remmy's slide from grace is depressing. The 700 I picked up about this time last year doesn't have the problems that people are talking about. I must have been one of the lucky ones. The throat does seem long to me, though. I was trying to seat my handloads off the rifling, and when I tried the "bullet in the empty case" trick to get the chamber OAL, it looked like hardly any of the bullet was still in the case. Maybe I'm pulling the bullet out farther when I eject it, or screwing it up somehow. But if I remember right, the OAL of the test rounds came out to be just a hair below 3.00" and I could never get the same measurement twice. Is that normal? It gives me a queasy feeling to thing my baby might be defective. Maybe I should just breakdown and get a gauge.
Larry <ljw@niroinc.com>
Freaking-Cold, WI, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 14:46:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.114.100.234)
Bolt; if your within 20 to 40 yards that's pretty good. I am currently trying a Sheperd. Much faster than Mil dots. So far just as accurate or moreso. IT behoves me to see why someone doesn't make this... standby... the patent for Sheperd was issued in 1981. I've heard patents after 20 years are up. Don't know if it applies to this or not???? Question anyone who knows? I've noticed the one shot zero is now in some Weaver scopes. I've heard bad on Sheperd optics but I'm wondering.. was trying to resolve some bullet holes the other day with a 12X Cabela's 30mm scope (windriver type) and a 4.5X14 Leupold Tactical. Guess what?
I had to get the 10X Sheperd to see em. That floored me! Also IF that scope moves zero 1/8 inch you can see it immediately thus insuring the scope stays put. Your impact can change but you will know if it's the scope. That game your playing would bore you to death with a Sheperd and would take about a minute to shoot all ten targets. Wind interpolation is probably not much better on a sheperd but you have a circle of known diameter at the distance your shooting it's pretty easy to interopolate (kentucky windage). Don't quote me... but I'd hate to face a good man with a Sheperd and me with nothing but MIl dots. While I was admiring my Leupold crispness and quality and working out my mathematical solutions I would expect to have my butt shot off....Those circles you shoot through and imagine aren't precise as cross hairs will amaze you. Now lets' hear from someone the Sheperd has failed? Leupold, take a look at that Patent!
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 15:11:42 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Dallas Sniper; Get you some .308/.223 VSS or .308/.223 VSSF Remingtons and have the barrels lopped off and BOSS systems installed. A good smith will give you 36 to 48 oz triggers with no creep. You won't have to do anything else to shoot .5 moa. Besides those stainless guns will require low maintence and fit nicely in a squad car with 20" barrels. You can put the blank BOSS on there to avoid muzzle blast to the sides if you need too and still fine tune the accuracy (which probably won't need it) . The impact won't change any perceptable amount. The perps won't know the difference or care. You can get your armorers to do it tools from Brownell. Put a good scope on em and your ready to go. You might even take a look at the Sheperd's. If your troops are only mildly trained the Shep is easy to learn. The M3LR is also fast but does require mil dot calculations.
The stainless models have fewer problems in my humble experience.
I've never had a bad stainless... which I could say that about PSS and other police models. Oh I could say something... I've never had one that didn't require something to make it right.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 15:23:48 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Kevin (Andy's Dad) - All of Vancouver ERT's PSS's have been aftermarket equipt with Mc A3 stocks. I have no bones against Mc - a buddy of mine (another Kevin)fell almost 40ft out of a tree with a C3A1 and trashed himself (yes he failed the stalk) but not the stock (Mc A3) nor the 10x Unertl (though he should have).
Kevin of the GWN <bolandks@home.com>
Canada - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 15:30:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.71.223.143)
Snub magnums:

Someone a while back wanted to know about Ruger vs S&W 357 mag snubs. I've owned multiple Ruger and S&W mag snubbies and FWIW the S&W's are way more user-friendly, IMHO. Rugers are too blocky and clunky for me, and the fixed sights on all mine were way off.

Put compact boot grips, or Bianchi Lightning grips, on a Mod 19 snub and it's a fine defense weapon. True, it's only a "six-shooter", but the old "six-for-sure" argument still has merit, especially when it should only take one shot per BG with 357 max loads.

Loads: I like 158gr Speer Gold Dot HP's over 10gr of Blue Dot as an all-around, do everything load. It's a max load that, in my 2 1/2", will group 2" at 20 yards. I carry mine for defense and to put down wounded big game.

Wheel guns and bolt action rifles are now what I carry while traveling. With all the weird gun laws, retro seems a safer way to go while passing through unknown territories.
 
 
 

flash <skalkaho_flash@hotmail.com>
The Rockies where it's 24 below today, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 15:35:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.32.34.12)


L42A1

I'm considering putting a modern scope on my L42A1 in place of the WWII vintage 4 power issue scope. The rifle is great but the 4 power scope is not quite up to modern standards and distances -- especiall with my old eyes. (L42A1 is a 7.62 x 51 mm conversion of the British Mk. IV(T). It served with British forces and other through the Falklands campaign and was only replaced with the Accuracy International L96 not too long ago.)

Any suggestions for scopes? I've considered the Leupold Var-X 3.5x10 Tactical and have been offered a good price on a West German Army surplus 6 power Hensolt (SP?).

Can I use mil-dots with a variable power scope?

Feel free to respond off line.

Thanks.

Frances
Frances <francis.fitzpatrick@bakernet.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 15:57:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.193.53.242)


Bolt..
I usually will have a, "is it 1.2 or is it 1.3 mils" so I figure both and split the difference and I usually come pretty damn close doing it that way.

Yote Bait..
I have to agree on the Shepard they are damn fast if shooting at a known size 18" or 9" target. The only thing I found was that past 600 the circles get pretty damn small and are real close to the same size say a 700 and a 800 yard circle not a lot of difference. Whats your thoughts on that??
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 17:36:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)


Pat; yes they are small at that range. Of course you must range with small objects out there. For instance you can't decide to range the car instead of the mailbox like you can with mil dots. Unless you do some math of course. You can use the 300 yard circle at 900 but the size is different if you see what I'm saying. (eg 48"=300 circle at 900).The size of the circles is some issue but I found I could often shoot better through the circles since nothing covered the target.
I was surprised to see my 700 yard groups less than 1 moa when they had not been. I'm still workin on this one. No real opinion yet.
If you're on a tactical course that gives you lot's of time and everyone is doing Mil dot math. It would be doubfull if the Sheperd would be more accurate if as accurate but if time is the issue... it really makes a difference and it's pretty much idiot proof.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 18:04:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Kevin, who has given you these horror stories? We use the M118 all the time it tracks very nicely. Of course we use M118 with it. :-)

Bill – reference the Shepard, I would love to come up against a guy at 600 and beyond shooting a Shepard and me with a mil dot. He will be a hurting puppy because after the he has blazed away missing for the first several shots. I will know exactly where he is and will only have to shoot once. We tried the Shepard and the M2 Leupold scope. Both have the same problem of using a very small target (19 inches) to range on and you are restricted ot what you can range. As brought up by Pat, the circles get small and holding for wind is a pain in the butt. At 700 meters and an 8-mph wind you are looking at about a 40 inch hold with only a small circle for reference. I think that a ten for ten hit rate is a touch optimistic. Bored would not be the feelings you would have, maybe frustration? :-) Another problem we had was the Shepard scopes started shifting the zero cross hair off of the main cross hair. This happened after some time in the field with it and the normal banging around it got in that environment.

Running from that coyote shooter at this time.

Rick

Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 18:25:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.207.57)


The topic of the military designated marksman rifle hasn't come up of late. Does anyone have any new dope on the subject?

Last I heard (on this site), the decision was made to go with a modified M16A2 type.

I'm curious as to what optics and ammo will be employed. The ACOG type scope seems to be either configured for a carry handle mount for the 20" bbl or the flat top mount on the M4 bbl.... I would guess a flat top 20" bbl for the DM, no? I guess a new bullet drop reticule configuration would be in order too? SS109 out of a 20" bbl? Maybe a new 69 grain loading is in the making?

Pablito, what do you and the rest of you optically oriented types think of the IOR 6 X 42 tactical scope with the MP-8 reticule for this application. I would think a 30mm tube would be preferred, but this seems like a handy little setup for a DM.. The finer lines on the MP-8 reticule may allow better resolve at 800 yards than a mil dot...

I know I'm talking toys here, but I'm intrigued by the potential utility of this concept. Heck, someone has to setup the targets for you guys to shoot at....

back in the trench, the range is hot....
Jim Mitchell <medicjim86@hotmail.com>
NJ, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 18:59:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.20.190.1)


I wish the Remingtons were good-to-go from factory. And I wish they had steel trigger guard to begin with. Still when somebody said that a box-stock 700 USD rifle shooting 3/4 MOA is POS I tend to disagree with that statement.

Stealth or the FN Special Police Rifle seems to be just what the doctor orders, I just wish they would make them also in Left Handed short action. For the time being the do not even produce the short action in LH configuration.

I think many buyers would be ready to pay up to 1000 USD IF Remington would produce a rifle that is ready to go from the box. (OK lawyer proof trigger they would probably still have to be included to the package). What is needed: Concentrate on the barrel: Make it smooth on rifling, crown it well, make a proper chamber that is concentric and straighten the receiver, maybe add a thicker recoil stop. Done in a factory the extra cost should be quite minimal so that the 1000 USD rifle would bring better profit margins AND better reputation for the company. Of course if 2 MOA rifle is acceptable for the company, then there is not much that can be done cost-efficiently.

Anyway it has been seen all over again that whenever somebody who does not really like guns buys a gun company, the quality workers and the qulity of the product go south. This happened with S&W, Colt, Winchester and now Remington. Luckily sometimes the owners smell the coffee at some point of time and either increases the quality or sell the company to somebody that cares. I am glad Sako was bought by Beretta so this quality issue should not be a problem there.

Hexa
Hexa <juhola@luukku.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 19:07:56 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.58.22.7)


Jim Mitchell...... I think that the 20" H-Bar flattop with ACOG sight is going in the right direction for the DMR role. After reading the article in TS by the Chandler Bros. that trashed the M14 DMR concept and advanced the flattop M/ACOG idea, I got myself a 20" H-Bar Colt and put the ACOG/NSN scope on it. Granted, this ACOG reticule is calibrated for the M4 and the SS109, I have had decent results out to the 600yd. max of this ACOG using SS109 (S&B) with the 20" bbl. When I say decent at that distance I mean "minute of chest area", and given the not-so-great accuracy of the SS109 IMHO that is good enough for what it is! One of the tasks that I've set for myself this spring is to try and develop a 69gr.SMK load that will fly with my ACOG reticle.I recently installed the EXBAL program in my computer, and my wife just presented me with an Oehler 35 for my birthday, so load development should be a little easier:-)
PS- this was not a slam on the M14/type rifle - I own and love two of them!

Hexa..... I completely agree with you on the Remington situation. I have an LTR .308 (floorplate) that shoots better than .75MOA day in and day out with M852 or GM1 and count myself fortunate. I bought a new Stealth .308 instead of a PSS, however. The last I heard Remington was still making the barrels for the M24 SWS and building the complete weapon in-house, so in theory they are capable of building a quality product. If they elected to do that, I'd like to be the first in line to buy one. Are you listening, Big Green?

'lito..... That FN Police Special sounds very interesting. X-Tra Special if they build it in .300WSM! I feel the urge to experiment;-)
ALAN <asimon@gj.net>
PALISADE, COLORADO, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 20:18:10 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.169.65.222)


Rick..
I had one on a 300WM and I shot the 190s with it at the exact FPS the scope called for and as far as the accuracy of the reticle it was right on the money. I put 16 out of 18 rounds into a 4.5" circle shooting from 100 to 700yds on a known distance course.

I had two problems with it, one was the short eye relief and on a 300WM that hurts!! The other was after 600yds I found it hard to range a target and tell exactly which range circle to use because the circles were pretty close in size after 600yds as I remember.

They are fast though, we used to have local long range shoots and you were timed as part of your score. With the Shepard and the 300WM I was nearly unbeatable esp. since we only shot at unknown distance out to 600yds and we shot at IPSC targets. With the 300WM and 190s you really had to have a bad wind to worry to much about hold off.

I agree with yote bait though, I liked the idea of the circles they are very fast for something that is the correct size and I would like to see another company make them without all the other crap he has in there. When all we shot at was IPSC targets it was the perfect scope but once they went to steel it was a different story. I had to go back to "guesstamating" the range and that leveled out the playing field again(HA).
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 20:48:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.41.18.130)


Rick; I won't scrap with you on that one either. I've seen the shift but at least you know there's been a change. But when that zero is set the parallax can be seen immediately and it keeps you dead center eyed in the scope. It's not known which cross hair has shifted but it lets you know something has happened. OF course we'd like to thing nothing moves...It's gonna be a while whether or not I would take on the mil x with those circles but I've so far been able to shoot up to par on real small paper targets and iron maidens. Now if you were trying to range a "head" it would be a difficult call but how would that be with Mil dots too? We did the ice box contest with a Sheperd and a Mil scope 4.5X14X40 Leupy that I thought was pretty fine. The rifles were identical Remington 700's. Then we changed rifles and did it again. Both shooters were so close to identical you couldn't call it even in the wind. The only thing that changed was the time. But....that's just 2 shooters on 1 day and although it's pretty close with the 2 it's still just a small sample and shooting experience would enter possibly also. I don't know how it would work for different shooters with different backgrounds. We did notice in high winds the Sheperd gets harder to wind because sometimes it's off to the side quite a bit at 800 or so. Too tell the truth the application of dog hunting requires more speed than a mil dot delivers cause those old boys ain't waiting around a lot of the time. They have noses and know how to use em....and we can afford a miss. Only thing would worry me is that I know the Shep is gonna shoot first if he see's me at the same time. And he might not miss.
He's gonna be damned close if he can see at all. I'm glad to hear you guys have tried it with your aps in mind.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 21:09:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
Rick; I just reread your post (ten for ten optimism) and figured out it might be a reference to the game thing I was talking to Bolt about. I think it came accross that I thought the Shep would hit all ten targets. Naddda!
There would be ranging mistakes and windage mistakes there too. But it just wouldn't take as long to make em.:-)
 

Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 21:18:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)


Frances; just to get to your question. You can use the Mil dots on full power but they take on different values on most scope when you reduce the power. This is usually where you want them anyway because the job of interpolation is best at higher powers. The same is true of the Sheperd Scopes for those interested. They are used at 10X/which is their maximum.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 21:24:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.184.248.252)
www.enemyatthegatesmovie.com
This is comming out in March. Set in Stalingrad December 1942.
couple of main characters named Maj Koning and SGT Zaitsev, maybe some of us heard of them.:)
Jon <M21SWS@aol.com>
Ohio, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 22:16:35 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.204.189)
Cornfusion arising again, as usual!

Why would you want to mil just any ole object at an unknown distance? Let's assume that you are not shooting at anything but human targets. Average would be a 72" target. If you have figgered your range card properly, shouldn't you just be able to mil the guy when he stepped out, look at your dope and automatically be on the correct range? In other words:

A 72" target = x mils @ 1000 yards. He steps out and he is x mils tall which would = range?

Trying to simplify this stuff, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 22:29:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.49.118.227)


I have been shooting with Shephard scope for a while now and have found them good to about 700 for first shot hits. The one thing is that a shephard is always the same relationship for distance to the circles, it does not matter what magnification you use. The circles are in the front of the scope and get sized by the change of magnification. Unlike mil dots the shephard works the same throughout its range. Still, almost impossible to range accurately beyond 700, but then again, look at the average distance an encounter happens at and decide if the increase in speed is worth it. But be ready to accept that it is less accurate at extended ranges.

Only real wish would be for the scope to come in a 30mm tube, a little increase in brightness would be nice at times. Almost forgot, the shep does have one other nice feature, the stadia lines on the top and side of the recticle are in inches, no messy mil conversion required and of course visual confirmation of the side movement for windage adjustment.

Like my mil dot scopes, but for most of my hunting use and plinking the shep is superior. That is just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Brian
Brian <pyronecro@email.com>
Columbia, SC, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 22:56:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.88.116.129)


Laddies............
On the Rem LONG leade.........Before you think it's T O O long....check a Chandler..........how's about .160-3...
Short leades, don't always accuracy make.......
Some booolets don't care for a no jump.....Most, YES...but not ALL........
On the Rem, factory priced, good to go.guaronteed...$1K.......
Forget it......save another $6-$700.00....and get a REAL screamer.
Slap a SS quality barrel, good, not the BEST....and maybe.......
 

fwiw

Two Shoes
Terry <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 23:01:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.177)


REM 700PSS PROBLEMS
Are the problems I am reading about with the PSS's in just one caliber. Are they in 223 or 308 or 300 mag I have one in 308 and it shoots great. Just bought a 300 mag a few months ago and was wondering because it has not been out of the box yet. THANKS Doug
Doug <dkb@pcpartner.net>
USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 23:18:07 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.177.19.67)
At the risk of sounding stupid I ask this question.

I am new to long range shooting. I have done alot of 100-200 yard shooting with my AR-15 match target lightwieght. I always used the peep sights on that gun, and have never really shot alot with a scoped rifle. By not alot I mean only at 100 yards. I now have a 700VS SF in .308. I am puting a leupold variXIII 6.5X20X40 on it. This weekend I am invited to go to a local range with the sniper for our local police force. My question is if I set my scope up for 300 yards, and then change to a 500 yard target how do you adjust for that? I know this probably sounds dumb to most of you. As I have been reading alot on this page and there seems to be some great long range shooters here. I would appiciate any advice you could give me on this subject.

Thanks,
Eric

P.S
Big Will- You poked fun at me for not knowing what the red box was.
Your statement was "What fool doesn't know what kind of rifle comes in a red box?" Obviously you are that fool as the stealth is a Winchester made product not a marlin!!!!
Eric <Alpine@coslink.com>
Traverse, Mich, USA - Wednesday, February 28, 2001 at 23:51:58 (ZULU) (your host address: 64.68.237.151)