Sniper Country Duty Roster

Informed commentary on small arms now being supplied to friendly forces in A'stan.

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Columnists/1002121.html

or click my name

C-7 = Canadian variant of M16A2

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 00:29:49 (ZULU)

***** Make Note*******

Military Channel (Top Sniper)

Teams from all over the world come to compete in a real life war zone environment at Ft. Benning GA. From intense urban firefights with grenades and machine gun fire, to night helicopter insertions, the line between competition and combat is blurred.

Jan 14, 10:00 pm

Jan 15, 1:00 am

Jan 17, 8:00 pm

Jan 17, 11:00 pm

Jan 18, 3:00 am

Jan 20, 4:00 am

Jan 20, 8:00 pm

Jan 20, 11:00 pm

Jan 26, 8:00 pm

Jan 26, 11:00 pm

Link Below

JLU

Joe Udelhofen
Oconomowoc, WI, USA - Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 00:49:23 (ZULU)

Gents,

Travis and Rod, thanks for the input on Aimpoints and availability of 1/3N batteries. I'll order a 10 pack. The Aimpoint I have is one of the series 2's. I wouldn't be so concerned about battery life if the batteries weren't being drained while the unit is OFF. The current battery has been in about 4 months and would barely light the red dot on ANY setting. Dim enough to "wash out" against any light colored background. Will probably keep this because it is paid for and there are some features I like. The advice to look at the Eotech 552 will be taken, however. I can always mount the aimpoint on my tactical entry shotgun although it's not really needed.

Charles, Enjoy your retirement. My own came with a sense of relief, not loss. Actually, I'm past the point where I can be forcibly recalled for any reason and that was more of a relief than the actual retirement, methinks...

Frankly, I was tired of being subject to the political whims of those politicians that don't have a clue and don't put their country first.

Lot's of comments about the primary results and projections for New Hampshire. Hillary is getting more and more unstable and her real "face" is showing. Scary.

Got to handle a high grade .505 Gibbs rifle today. Beautiful, but large enough to be a crew served weapon. The thought of pulling the trigger on that one has zero appeal to this guy. Something about "retinal detachment" that just doesn't sound like any fun...

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 01:49:37 (ZULU)

Travis,

I'm in Wichita for a couple weeks at Flight Safety International getting checked out on the Citation Encore, any good suggestions on places to eat?

Sir Wes,

I have had a Comp M2 for a while, used it a bunch, then it sat in storage for 4 years, have been a bunch again using it now that I'm back from Oki. I have the 2 battery conversion cap on it, it has lasted for what seems like 4ever. No probs with bleed down yet.

S/F

Kush

Kush
Wichita, KS, Temporarily - Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 02:41:52 (ZULU)

humor

Terror Threat-levels in Europe ....

The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross."

Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies all but ran out. Terrorists themselves have been re-categorized from "Tiresome" to "A Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was during the great fire of 1666.

Also, the French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Surrender" and “Collaborate." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country's military capability.

Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher

levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and “Lose."

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual, and the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

The Swiss, as always, have taken the phone off the hook.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 02:58:49 (ZULU)

Sir Wes:

Just to ask a silly question, does the on/off switch actually turn off the dot? Perhaps the on/off switch has failed closed?

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 03:03:41 (ZULU)

Kush,

Where is that? Northeast end of town, or ICT? Gimme a holler, I could pick you up from the airport, if necessary, and if you want to go shooting, I'm a member at an outdoor range we'd have pretty much to ourselves.

Beware, though, we have a Gander Mountain AND a Sportsman's Warehouse here, though, so you'll probably leave some cash here. There's also two indoor ranges and one has Class III's for rent.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 03:58:24 (ZULU)

Rod....you crack me up.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 05:09:41 (ZULU)

I knew I should have put "incentives" in quites;)

Joe, I'm not a large fan of the Fed gov doing much in this area, aside from simply providing the required regulation vis a vis interstate commerce as dictated in the USC. The flipping states have their own regs on the Interstate HWY's and they do some "Stupid Shit"(TM) MI for example, only allows 36K lbs on a tandem axle regardless of tire, suspension or axle ratings, thus requiring you to buy their exemption permits anytime you go their to tow any trucks. And they enforce rigorously, mainly because their state is broke from the welfare state in places like Detroit and Flint and they're desperate for money. Interstate travel(IE the IS HWY's) should be 1 Federal standard, period. Unfortunately deregulation screwed this up, while it brought in some good things.

I would like to see the State pass the true costs of the transporation infrastructure onto the public. No more subsidized public transport, railways, etc etc, strictly capitalist free enterprise. No bailouts, no subsidized fuel or payments to buy whatever, etc. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 06:55:32 (ZULU)

UNPAT

Get this on the 308. You pay up front it's 4 week delivery. You just order it, it's 6 to 8 weeks. Like they say Money Talks Bullshit Walks.

Whimpering Hilldibeast ruined my supper last night.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 11:23:22 (ZULU)

Gary,

Me too. "Oh, boo-hoo, I just love my country so much, blah, blah......" Makes me wanna puke. Unfortunately, it'll probably work.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., USA - Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 12:14:45 (ZULU)

Ken M: I know where you stood on that:)) I was just using that to make a different point about where current tax policy is going and gone. I too agree on the infrastructure---but here's my twist: I'd like to see the .13 cent gas tax go directly to that end. Instead, it gets washed out in the general fund where congress uses it to buy 13 million dollar toilets on a closed highway in PA, named after the benefactor of course:)) What sends me off fast is that dem from Minnesota that wanted to add .05cents to the tax---to pay for new bridges! Hello! That is what the .13 was for in the first place, asshat! Heheh, does anyone think tha adding another dollar of tax burden will change the ability of congress to divert it for their own interests??? Naw, the money is there---the missing thing is the desire to spend it wisely.

REAL NEWS: Blake is on his way to MEPS to swear in (providing he tests at least as well as he practiced and passes the physical). His goal is Airborne Infantry or the Regiment. I counseled against the regiment, as that tends to be a way of life that is hard to break out of. His ultimate goal is SF. Our Batt-boys usually had a hard time adjusting to the differing missions. The Duece has an equal chance for ranger training; and he can "adjust" easier to the new life in that environment---without having it shoved down his throat too hard:)) We shall see.

I am beaming with pride today...

Joe M
Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 16:58:18 (ZULU)

Gary,

I just cant watch/stand her...Ranks right there with Jane Fonda,Rosie o'Donnel and a DIY castration w/a rusty butterknife.

Watched Band of Brothers discs instead.

Last I heard wait time was around 3-4 months but that was,a year ago, mostly for all the lil extras...Barrel Cryo,Fluting...things like that.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 19:24:58 (ZULU)

Hitlery is doing exactly what all women I dispise do:

1.)Tell you you're a sonofabitch for not giving them their way, then

2.)Try crying to blackmail you into giving it to them. I just hope she reaches stage

3.) screaming psycho bitch

before the election. If she does, she'll be a stage

4.)That bitch you used to know, before you wised up and threw her ass out.

Can I get an "AMEN", there, 'Lito?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, January 8, 2008, at 21:29:43 (ZULU)

Joe,

Congrats and godspeed to the boy.

Pat II
Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 04:07:35 (ZULU)

Gents,

Rod, believe me that Aimpoint M2 was in the off position. Am going to order more batteries and get the two battery conversion cap. That should help. Need to get some hands on with the EO Tech units and make up my mind about them...spendy little rascals. Of course everything is spendy nowaday's...

Knee surgery is set for tomorrow afternoon. Doc says 2-6 weeks before I can be returned to full duty, if all goes well. Was wondering if I can get a complete FRAM job while their at it and come out at about age 30 vice 56...;-)

Just recieved a 1:10" twist .30 cal Adams and Bennett barrel for a hunting rifle. I'm VERY impressed with the quality. Suspect it will shoot well enough for general purpose hunting, etc. Will let you know more when I get the tube installed in a couple weeks.

Joe M., Congrats on your youngster joining up. Somehow I've got the feeling that we'll all sleep better knowing there is another Mahon on active duty to replace the one that just retired. My best wishes to your young man for continueing to carry the torch.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 04:14:25 (ZULU)

PatII and Sir Wes: Thanks guys! I've been second guessing my retirement allday today...ya know; the very unprofessional (and dangerous) wish to keep watch over him. No; the logical side of me knows that I would be less a soldier worrying about my only son in the ranks. Better that there is no overlap. But still...

I called him up tonight and asked how it went. He says "how'd what go?" Heheh, he didn't even ask how well he scored (and I dunno either now)--he just figured it was an easy test--far easier than he thought it would be, so he was going to bed for the early wake up. As if I did not need to hear from him; ha! OK, so I guess I'll have to wait at the station to hear what his choice will be too. The kid is nonchalant as hell. Me? I'm dying to know---and dying to meddle. Heheh. At least I know enough not to. Now, if he does the 11X airborne option, I will get involved a little; to ensure he goes 11B and his first assignment is in fact airborne. I had the same option some 26 years ago:)) Only I got stuck in a "cohort" for III corps LRSD, which was "unfunded" by the DAT Corps Commander for the year---and my choice was either stuck in Mech Recon or contract breach with a bus ride home! The least I can do is prevent the same BS for my kid---behind the scenes of course, and thru intermediaries.

Hey, my para is shaping up to be a dependable piece. The mainspring swap solved all maner of ill behaviors (name a malf and I had it with the stock under weight spring). The wolff plus 10% mag springs also cured the marked mag of failing to lock the slide too. And I was informed that I bought the very last SOCOM P13 to be sold-- my vendor was pissed cuz e wanted one when he saw mine (at a huge discontinued discount too). I don't have that kind of luck often...

Sir Wes: Best wishes for your surgery! If you want, I can send ya my eotech for an evaluation---just hit me a mailing addy offline. That way, you can see all you need to see before the investment. Heck, if you like my spare, make me an offer. I'm putting the M8 on the Mod7 anyway (and a B&C stock...and a Rock barrel...and...).

Aimpoints and Eotechs: I have both, and prefer the eotech for specific reasons. But, that choice is with the knowledge that it is less rugged and eats batteries faster. In the "desert trash pile"---eotechs found their way back at a greater rate than the more prolific aimpoints under reagular army war usage. The weakpoint is the battery box itself.

Speaking of that: Did someone say they have a bad battery box??? I have several spares of both versions---email me if you had this problem. I'll charge what i paid: 0.00.

Anyway, a few had the lights go bad, and a couple more had debonded prisms internally--but most were bad boxes. They're easy to fix, and the eotech customer service is first rate (if anyone has problems, I have Dennis's email somewhere--he is the man to talk to). Aimpoint's service sux donkey schlongs in comparison. But then, you may never get to know that with one of the Comp units:))

My reasons for eotech: Fast ass reticle...itty-bitty dot for better precision at extended combat ranges, better FOV (much better) when using NVGs behind it, batteries are found in every corner store in every corner of the globe, and the integral mount is servicable (unlike that trash aimpoint packages with their units).

My aimpoint is still using the battery it had in it when that picture was taken that we all won the geovids with. I missed this, but my wife realized that shot taken on my 40th birthday. That's funny. But a battery ought not drain in the off position. Unless it takes over 3.5 years to do it:))

Joe M
Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 05:45:12 (ZULU)

Sir Wes:

I was thinking about the possibility that the switch was in the "off" position but the sight itself was still on. That could occur if the switch failed. It might be possible to visually check that after you have replaced the battery. Set the switch to off and look at the sight for the presence of the dot.

Usually switches fail "open" but occasionally they can fail in the "closed" position.

Just speculation...

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 09:10:57 (ZULU)

Hi Guys...

Just a fill in.

We was supposed to start the trial this Thursday (Jan 10th).

The other side deposed the court investigator (a goodie) and got copies of most of her paperwork. It's very bad for my ex - the documents paint her out to be a child abuser... there are pictures of her house that would look bad even if they were published in the National Inquirer.

So they got a continuance and a change of court.

When this thing started (again, v-2.0), her lawyer said that it didn't make any difference if I won, cuz if I won, they would come back and file the next week... so this may going to go on forever.

In the mean time, Ruggus Rattus is 16 on Feb 15th, so while we are waiting for the continuance to play out, we are going to file for Emancipation.

That's about it. I got tons of paperwork ahead.

This shit is getting REAL OLD by now!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 10:09:38 (ZULU)

Lito,

Got you in our prayers bro...

back to lurking,

Morgue

Mourge
Overseas, - Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 11:03:09 (ZULU)

Primaries. Polls were wrong and like my father would say "it's going to hell in a handbasket"

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 15:05:50 (ZULU)

Gents: Let's add a quick prayer in for Morgue too. Let him do "well" on a surprise opportunity to test (enough of a surprise that his study time is seriously compressed). Its one of those career enhancer things.

Modest cuss; doesn't ever mention his job or his rather stellar rise in it.

Well, I won't either. Those who know, already know.

edited to add: Blake pulled the 82d percentile (1-99%, the higher your number, the fewer people did better than you). Not sure, but his GT will be above 120. That opens every door in the Army from SF thru OCS, WO flight, any medical MOS, special degree programs, etc. I'll admit that surprises me: The kid skated thru school on the path of least resistance! Never took anything advanced and tried hard to stay with bonehead level courses...

Physical passed...no suprise there. (The company 1SG is calling periodically with updates---too many old hands figured out who this kid belongs to:))

He is with a "guidance counselor" now, choosing his future. I did ask the CSM to have all the jobs put in front of him and see what happens:)) He "wants" the paratrooper slot--but money and training might sway that, eh?

damn, i am curious as hell. Forcing myself to stay out of it is a PITA. The calls are a nive touch though.

Joe M
Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 15:25:54 (ZULU)

Travis,

Don't think I'll be able to sneak out for anything, this place keeps you busy with 12 hour days, and then go back to the hotel to study for the next day.

FSI is over by the Airport, I'm staying at Cambridge Suites off the 400, just S of the city proper.

Will let you know if I can get away. I'll drop you an e-mail

S/F

Kush

Kush
Wichita, KS, Temporarily - Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 19:04:18 (ZULU)

Gents,

Thanks for the good wishes on the surgery. I go under the knife at 2:50 PM today. Well, that's a bit dramatic. The surgery is orthroscopic. Two incisions. Probably going to screw up my "Captain Morgan" routine for a bit...;-)

Kush...good luck on your testing. Although, I think in your case luck has nothing to do with it.

Joe M., Great news about your son. At least he's got a "advisor" that's "been there, done that" and can give solid advice. Sounds like his "great adventure" is starting to unfold. Never had children, so don't know what it's like. Private PM to you late today or tomorrow.

"Lito, how guys like you and Bravo show the patience you do is amazing. Sounds like the time is long past to draw swords and let blood. The opposing side's attorney sounds like a jerk. Is that redundant?

General information. Checked Guns America and there are a number of older Remington 700 BDL/Varmint Specials for sale. Also some Winchester Stealths. Both in .223, .308, and a few other calibers.

All for now. Need to go get prepped.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR , USA - Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 20:20:05 (ZULU)

Wes, best of luck.

'Scope' surgery tends to be much less involved than traditional....you'll be fine.

medicjim
Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 20:26:45 (ZULU)

Ruh-Roh: He wants an 11x, airborne option contract---pretty basic thing to get, except he wants the "quick ship" bonus too---and there are none to be had. Right this minute, he has a Ranger slot staring him in the face....he knows the pros and cons...he has a choice to make. He also knows that he won't have to wait very long--less than a month--to get the easier deal he wanted too. I wonder what he will do?

Joe M
Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 20:49:54 (ZULU)

Dakar rally cancelled due to AQI threats:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2008-01-07-Dakar-Rally-Gordon_N.htm

Duman
Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 21:06:48 (ZULU)

Blake is sworn in, ships in about 3 weeks for the one-station infantry grind. Then airborne school, and that is all he wanted. I'll use a few names to ensure he goes to the duece (or Italy--whatever he thinks he'd want). He asked me what happens if he "waits" until they have what he wants (not rangers, it appears). So i told him they'd find his option quick-time. I kinda thought they'd do it today, too.

I had a few guys checking nationally on what the deal was on the fact that he could not enlist infantry with an airborne option. That is about as easy as it gets, usually. I hear the "ROC" came thru for him. I owe someone a beer.

And just like that: He grew up and is heading out on his own as a paratrooper. Holy crap....what have i done:))

Now the prez is kicking around the holy lands; I bet the secret service is wound pretty tight. That is asking for it in the worst way. And, if the terrs pulled it off--the dems would say he did it on purpose to ruin their chances of winning the next election:)

Joe M
Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 22:51:18 (ZULU)

Sir Wesley...

>"Lito, how guys like you and Bravo show the patience you do is amazing. Sounds like the time is long past to draw swords and let blood. The opposing side's attorney sounds like a jerk. Is that redundant?"<

Time to draw blood?

HA! Double HA!! (as "The Original" Pat would say).

I have spent a few years searching how I lost the first one - I knew it was a fix, but didn't know how they did it (at first).

So after I lost the Rug Rat, I was in the dumps, but madder than hell.

So I started doing what I do best - "re"search - (meaning "search again")

It took six months before I cracked the wall, and once I found the crack, it went faster and faster. I spent over 2,000 hours searching these scumbags, and after two years, I had them - I just needed to get it together (150 pounds of paper).

Last spring I started preparing a complaint to the police, but they didn't have a clue to what I was talking about - this is very high level white collar crime, and all he could say was "I can't see a body or a smoking gun". (Duh!!)

So I went to the U.S. Department of Justice, cuz I thought it might be a RICO case, since they had fixed a judge... but to make a RICO case, I need to make three points of law. I had two solid, but they said (over the phone) the third was real weak, and they weren't interested.

So I put it aside to work on the new custody thing.

Last October, I got the forms to file a RICO complaint, I wrote up a 50 page report, and filed it with the U.S. Department of Justice.

I didn't hear any thing or get an acknowledgment or receipt. I called after a few weeks and was told that my complaint was assigned it a US Attorney :)))

(you can start thinking Martha Stewart and "Scooter" Libby now).

I left a message for her... and heard nothing. Left more messages, and heard nothing :((

So I gave up and figured that it was DOA.

Today - I got a call from the U.S. Department of Justice, and have an appointment to present my files and evidence.

The US Attorney, and the friggin' FBI will be at the meeting.

Yippy-damn-do, hot-digity-damn!

Talk about drawing blood.

They haven't "taken" the case yet, but I'm Goddamn close.

If they do take it - it will turn the Stamford court system upside down, cuz I have hard evidence of fixing from the bottom to the top (The chief Presiding Judge).

Life sure do get more interestinger and interestinger...

'lito

(off to make files - what I do best these days ;) )

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 23:26:27 (ZULU)

Lito-san,

Freakin awesome, good to hear that headway will be made. Hopefully the Feds will take the case.

Sir Wes, Thanks for the vote of confidence, the stimulators start tomorrow and Thursday, and this won't be too bad since I'm not going for a type rating on the Encore this time. But when I go thru my recurrent training here next year, I'll prolly go for my ATP and type rating then. That will bring the suck.

Back to more mind numbing avionics classes.

S/F

Kush

Kush
Wichita, KS, Temporarily - Wednesday, January 9, 2008, at 23:48:02 (ZULU)

Joe;

Tell Blake we wish him all the best!

lito;

Keep fighting the good fight, you will prevail.

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Thursday, January 10, 2008, at 00:04:00 (ZULU)

Joe,

Tell Blake "Enjoy it all, and never look back! You won't ever regret it. AIRBORNE!" ...and best wishes for you ;)) Have a scotch: it helps.

SSG Mac
Thursday, January 10, 2008, at 00:50:26 (ZULU)

WES

Had Ortho on my right knee in 2006, three 1/4 slits. Piece of cake, but do use the crutchs, don't ask me how i know.

Gary Kaney
N, ILL, - Thursday, January 10, 2008, at 09:58:20 (ZULU)

Sir Wes- while you're polishing the pine or enjoying the Barcalounger, talk to Aimpoint. That scope shouldn't be doing that.

Joe M- best wishes, know a little of how you feel.

'Lito-go gettum fella!

WR Moore
Thursday, January 10, 2008, at 13:50:36 (ZULU)

09-Jan-2008 SAN FRANCISCO GUN BAN OVERTURNED - Appeals Court rules ban unconstitutional

http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=8942

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, January 11, 2008, at 00:01:53 (ZULU)

Gents,

Surgery went well, but they played hobb getting me out from under the anethesia. Something about my sleep apnia kicking in and I was fighting them every step of the way. Am going to send the anethesiologist a bill for making her life interestng. Am feeling like one of the seven dwarf's right now...Dopey, I think.

Joe M, so the lad is going to be a paratrooper. Something about stepping out of a perfectly good aircraft never made sense to me ...;-) My very best to him and his proud papa.

"Lito. Wow, sometime the system does work!!! Hope the judge and entire crew gets spanked so hard they won't be able to sit down again...ever! More importantly I hope the outcome of this wakes up a lot of people who would like to do this type of thing in the future.

Will get hold of the Aimpoint folks and see what they have to say. Meanwhile, I'm going to check out the EoTech offerings, too.

Sounds like life has gotten interesting for a bunch of our group...

More when I'm a bit more coherent.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Friday, January 11, 2008, at 01:21:20 (ZULU)

Speaking of interesting....made my last full night on patrol tonight. 20 years, the academy seems like last week. I'll goof off on the front desk some tomorrow, then cut out early. I'm full of mixed emotions, happy and kinda sad. A bit like watching your new Ford 4x4 pickup disappearing over a cliff, then realizing your ex-wife was at the wheel.

Tomorrow starts a new life. Wonder how many of these 20-year experiments I have left?

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, January 11, 2008, at 03:58:43 (ZULU)

Charles: I had much the same feeling; though I wasn't as clever with the anology as you were---I about fell out of my chair laughing! Congrats on the 20 hard ones, and thank you for being there for so long, thru so much, and all for your fellow man. Its a heck of a statement of integrity. Me? I'd never make ten minutes before I decided that some dumbasses simply deserve to be victims...but, that said, I realize that those who protect and serve all citizens (idiots included) are a special breed. And deserving of so much more than our mere thanks. But hey, its the internet---all you're getting from me is my thanks!

Sir.......Wes.....I........will.......loan.......you......an......eotech....just.....send.......me.........your..........address.

(typed to synchronize with post-op pain medication)

Lito: Get some!

Joe M
Friday, January 11, 2008, at 06:25:38 (ZULU)

Joe Congrats on the kid going where he wants. I've got a step-son thinking it over. He really needs it. If he makes the right choice and decides to enlist I'll need some advise from you. I told him for right now don't sign anything. He's not the brightest kid in the world and I'm sure without guidance he'd end up signing papers to be a cook. Send Sir Wes the 552 if you've got one. He'll love it. Did you say earlier that the Aim Point's were standing up better than the EOTech's over in the sandbox? Just curious, what were the main problems with them?

Sir Wes What did they do to the knee? Was it a basic miniscus tear that needed trimming? If that's it, rehab the crap out of it after the swelling goes down and it'll be almost good as new before you know it. I've had 2 on right knee and one on left, but like Gary they made three slits on mine. You'll love the EOTech 552. I shot Aim Point's on my open class ISPC guns for years, before EOTech's became popular. If I was still competing now I'd go with the 552.

Go 'Lito. At what age in your state does the kid get to decide which parent he wants to live with? Around here it's 12-14 unless there's a major reason to keep them with a certian parent, such as abuse or some type of danger. The child support is another issue. If the kid leaves the mom to go live with the dad, they drop the support to the mom, but don't usually make her pay to the dad.

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Friday, January 11, 2008, at 13:30:34 (ZULU)

Jeff: The big problem with the Eotechs is the battery box, specifically the "bridge" between the batteries de-bonds and NOTHING will fix it. The tension from the springs/ foam washers keeps enough pressure on the power pick-ups (little bearing detents), and once the alignment is outta whack, fuhget it. The battery box failures, even with units that did not drop any parts out of them---were by far the usual reason for failure. Next, Diodes would burn out (a few units actually had this problem and I suspect that it was just a bad light or circuit board rather than a wear-out issue). Lastly, even fewer still had internal debonding of the prisms just below the FOV. Some were shot thru or otherwise crushed--but those write-offs did not mean anything. Telling a rifleman that he can't break something is one of the strongest forms of motivation known to man; and the easiest way to discover the weaknesses of any design:))

Aimpoint failures seemed to all be operator abuse: Power switches that were torqued past the off-stops, battery caps cross-threaded into the housings, mount failures (yes, the army will throw out an aimpoint if the cheesy mount breaks--not always, but often enough to make a hobby for me in re-habbing them), a few had turrets twisted off the top-- a few had frozen internally on adjustments, and of course, outright destruction of the casing and/ or glass thru serious abuse. I only found 2 maybe 3 units with internal failures of the diode out of thousands. That kinda impressed me since all this was a direct comparison.

Eotechs' diode can be swapped easily between units (one shot up can be salvaged for one that burned out)---while the aimpoint is dead forever (the company will not or cannot open them up to replace the light) if it goes dark on ya. The good news is aimpoints don't much need an easy replacement:))

edited to add:

I carried both, aimpoints the first tour in Iraq, and eotechs on the second trip to Iraq and then the subsequent Afghanistan tour. My solution to "possible" failures was to have two spare battery boxes, with batteries in place and a strip of electrical tape (with a folded tab for quick tear off) in my kit--one in my left side grenade pouch, and the other in the top pouch of my patrol pack. Bases covered. All that extra effort was worth it IMHO, as I really liked the reticle. Farnam thinks the 65MOA ring is detrimental (if it is too bright, it draws the eye "into" the sight and obscures the target according to him)--but that circle makes this the faster of the two for me. And, the aimpoint needed to be 'adjusted' often as well, especially in that frikken glare off sand. And just as fast, a shadow would make that bright dot "smear"---ya needed to dial it back down. that stuff just becomes part of your routine. The speed in which you could pull up and toss a dot unto a target made every little quibble worth the effort. These were insurgencies, not world war I; engagements came outta nowhere. Either sight is good, but one worked for me slightly better than the other.

There's much to be said for AA batteries too.

Joe M
Friday, January 11, 2008, at 13:58:27 (ZULU)

John Farnam on 1x illuminated optical sights

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/03Jan08.html

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, January 12, 2008, at 02:06:30 (ZULU)

Since we are on red-dot sights, anybody got to play with the Elcan Specter DR?

1x to 4x? Irons on top, Red Dot at 1x, illum reticle at 4x. Looks interesting.

S/F

Kush

Kush
Havelock, NC, - Saturday, January 12, 2008, at 03:58:20 (ZULU)

Kush, it is expensive!

a bit of a review, not off the corporate website:

http://www.ar15.com/content/products/sights/elcan/

One for sale at a discount off retail:))

http://www.ar15.com/content/products/sights/elcan/

I have acquired a strong aversion to "do it all" gizmos and gear. Ha, the army's digital ACU pattern is supposed to kinda blend in to the woods and the desert---instead works only in gravel parking lots and smurf villages:))

At 1.3 pounds, it oughta come with an everclip and do dishes. At $1850 used, it oughta come with a dang rifle!

I didn't know it when you asked--but I don't much like this thing.

Joe M
Saturday, January 12, 2008, at 05:07:49 (ZULU)

Joe The AA batteries and the field of view got it for me on the EOTech. It'd been a little while since I used a "dot" sight and they've come a long way in what seems like a few short years. The last one I had was a PDP-4 or 5 or something or another, which may have been Propoint and not an aimpoint? Can't remember for sure. I do rember putting coin type batteries in it every time I used it cause I always left it on. I've got some memory problems for that time period from an accident. Anyway, it was the biggest sight they had and had adjustable dot size along with brightness, and built in weaver style attachment. When I bought my latest dot sights "552's" I was amazed at the size and weight difference in what I remember having. Not having to look through a tube was what I liked the most. I haven't torn one up yet, but haven't been trying to hard either. For some reason when I pay for things I seem to take better care of them. My stock has a compartment to put batteries in it, and I always keep spares. It would be nice to be able to do like you're talking about and keep them in the holder with the tape. I like the 65 MOA ring around the dot. If I'm in a hurry I can get things into a ring faster than I can put a dot on them but the dot will give you good accuracy when needed. IMHO, It's a good combination. I saw they've come out with a 3X multiplier for them. I think it swings in and out of the way for fast or accurate shooting. Can't remember were I saw it though. Would be nice to have that attachment along with the PVS-14, or whatever the military calls them, to swing in or out of the way when needed. Ha You don't have a pile of those laying around that just need a few minor fixes. I am seriously thinking about making that "good NVG" a purchase next year depending on the flying season. I'll have to check out that elcan thing tomorrow I've got to get to bed now. But if it's like or is the Acog with dot on top I wanted one........night yall

Deleriously tired Jeff Cooper
Sleepy Hollow, TN, - Saturday, January 12, 2008, at 09:29:54 (ZULU)

Joe,

Is there any advantage to mounting the Eotech on a GG&G mount? Any thoughts?

Also, this may have been discussed here before but anyone with experience with the new Magpul PMAG magazines? I hear some are dumping their metal magazines for these.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, January 12, 2008, at 17:44:04 (ZULU)

JoeM,

"I have acquired a strong aversion to "do it all" gizmos and gear. Ha, the army's digital ACU pattern is supposed to kinda blend in to the woods and the desert---instead works only in gravel parking lots and smurf villages:)) "

LMAO!! I thought the ACU would be viable, but I stand out like a sore thumb in the forest. Gotta get me some of that Marine Digital...

Duman
Saturday, January 12, 2008, at 17:50:12 (ZULU)

Gents,

Apparently my description of a "routine" repair of a torn meniscus was accurate. The post operative portion was not. Apparently, it included an emergency ride, to the hospital, and a stay in intensive care while they fought to get my system to stabilize. None of which I remember...

So, sorry to be out of touch for a bit...

Joe M., sent you my address. Appreciate the loaner unit.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Saturday, January 12, 2008, at 19:35:06 (ZULU)

Wellllllllllll......

Doughlady (who will now be called Pistol Packin Grandma) passed her CCW class and did better than some of the male class attendees. The instructer wouldn't let her shoot her 22mag cause he said he wanted to see what she could really do. They gave her a Beretta 92 (I almost threw up in mouth when she told me that) and free ammo to do her shooting test with and she kept all 50 in the vitals. I had been letting her shoot a Smith 469 and a Kahr K9 but she didn't want to test with those today cause she still isn't used to a semi. Jeeeezzzz.....this is gonna cost me a fortune before its overwiff. I rewarded her (yeah right) with the funding for her CCW permit and I reckon she'll be headed to the local constabulary Monday to harass them about how long it will take to get the card.

Sir Wes......

Now you see how we really make money at hospitals :) Let me guess, reaction to antibiotics or anti-inflamatories?

A proud Bolt, out!

Bolt
Gonna need more ammo in............., NC, - Saturday, January 12, 2008, at 22:59:46 (ZULU)

MK4,

I have the GG&G Accucam for my ACOG and the Accucam canteliver for my Aimpoint, I love it. No movement of the sight once it's on there, easy on, easy off, no tools required. The Eotech mount should be just like the ACOG, attaches from the bottom, a little loc-tight and you be in bizzness. Had the ACOG on my M4 the last trip over, banged it around a bunch, no problems or shift of zero.

JoeM, Oh yeah, you ain't shittin, that thing is big dollars. Not a fan of the one-size fits all either, just curious to hear from anyone who got to handle or shoot one. Novel concept, for almost half the money, you can strap on a Docter Sight on an AOCG if you really want to.

Meh,

S/F

Kush

Kush
Havelock, NC, - Saturday, January 12, 2008, at 23:39:21 (ZULU)

Joe What's the name of the night vision device mounted behind the Elcan in the pics on the first article you listed. That's the one that I want but not sure of what it's called. Is it the PVS-14 that I named earlier or did I have the name wrong?

Digital Camo Does everything have to be digital? Just cause we live in the digital age doesn't mean it works for everything. Sometimes people need to leave well enough alone. It may look cool up close but it just blends to one shade of a color at a distance. I think "read IMHO" contrasts are what break up outlines at a distance and digital just doesn't have any at distance except in the affore mentioned gravel parking lots. Shrooms have been out of season here for a while, so I'm not sure about the smurf village.

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 00:02:10 (ZULU)

Here's my drive-by post for today..... just checking in quickly.

For those that have told me that I shouldn't 'waste my vote' and need to 'vote for the lesser of the evils' - to include the current administration.....

The BEST argument that I've heard so far for doing so was that a democrat with a (R) behind is name would be better for us in supreme court nominees. OK, now that's a possibility I couldn't ignore - and I will (seriously) even overlook this administration's Harriet Meyers (SP?) recommendation in regards to this.

So, with the Parker / Heller case coming, I was expecting an amicus brief from the current department of "justice". Heck, everyone else has, and I expected no less from the government, since they have the heaviest hand on the scales. Given the flip-flopping and repeated failures in morality of this administration, I wasn't sure how it would go. As in which side the DO"J" would take. Well, now we know.

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2008/01/government_file.php

Yes, the DO"J" has said that the 2nd Amendment is a Right of "We The People" - but asks the court to uphold the D.C. administration's side. You got it: the DO"J" - and the Bush Administration - believe that the Washington D.C. victim disarmament laws need to be upheld.

At this point, I'm left with nothing but slim hopes. I can hope that the one flip-flopper (as Patron Joe noted, ironically a Kennedy) appointed as one of the Treasoners In Black Dresses chooses to do the right thing. Against the will of the government.

In short, I've given up on the republicrat party all together. I won't vote for a single socialist with a (R) behind his name, ever, ever again. It doesn't matter if the socialist with a (R) behind his name gets nominees in with a decent background and stances on the issues, if the administration is willing to push in the opposite direction.

It could be that something good will come out of this case, but if the Treasoners in Black Dresses choose to back the Constitution, it's not due to the republicans and their administration, it's in spite of it.

Bravo
Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 00:38:46 (ZULU)

Hello Gentlemen,

I have a young son who is quite interested in shooting. Although I was raised on weekend target practice and rabbit hunting I am yet a novice in the art of marksmanship. My son however seems quite the prodigy and is rapidly approaching my threshold of knowledge.

I would like to have him start taking some (relatively) long shots with a bolt action. I know that he is big enough to handle a .223 because he has already shot my brothers AR-15 in the prone position with a bi-pod.

I was looking at the ruger m77 because it comes in a .223. I read the postings on this site concerning the rifle and have gathered that it is simply not worth the money in the long run, but the .223 is merely a stepping stone for him at this stage and in a couple of years I will be investing in a larger rifle.

I would appreciate some input on the matter, if you guys think I should go ahead with that one, or if there is an equally affordable rifle I could start him with.

Also any literature you might suggest.

Thank you,

Douglas Berry
mesa, Az, USA - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 00:55:33 (ZULU)

Douglas,

Just my .02 on the subject. I was looking around for a used .223 and found a Browning A Bolt with a Nikon Monarch variable scope. Got the whole deal for under a grand. Took it to the range and got it on paper and did a 300 yard zero with some older PMC ball ammo and was easily holding a solid 1 MOA. Excellent trigger too.

My wife qualified for her CCW with my .40 XD Tactical and did very well with it ...and she hates automatics. In Texas, if you want to be able to carry any kind of handgun, you have to qualify with an auto. Qualify with a revolver and you can ONLY carry a revolver. That's the law here anyway.

Thanks, Kush. I've got a RRA Tactical headed my way that already has the Eotech 512 with the GG&G mount on it. I wondered how much difference it made.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 01:17:43 (ZULU)

Jeff:

on digital camo. I've ready that part of the reasoning behind the digital camo patterns is because more detection sensors are going digital. Supposedly the new digital pattern spoofs digital sensors more effectively that earlier patterns.

I'm a big fan of digital electronics, but agree that just making someting "digital" doesn't necessarily make it better.

reading on the topic:

http://www.uniteddynamics.com/camo/faq/

http://www.hyperstealth.com/CADPAT-MARPAT.htm

http://www.uniteddynamics.com/dualtex/

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 02:30:39 (ZULU)

DB;

I suggest you look into getting him a youth model Savage as these are great rifles for the money and very easy to upgrade as he gets older.

Go to Savageshooters.com for all you need to know.

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 04:19:02 (ZULU)

Bravo,

>the DO"J" - and the Bush Administration - believe that the Washington D.C. victim disarmament laws need to be upheld.<

If you were a politician living in D.C. would you feel comfortable knowing everyone around you is armed? ;-))

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 05:32:08 (ZULU)

GG&G I've got it and love it. I think it might void the waranty so keep your origional stuff to put back on if you have to send it to the factory. At least it did when I got mine, but that's been a year. Pretty repeatable results using as a QD mount. It's on my RRA M4A3 too.

Douglas I don't own one, but I've heard a lot of good stuff about the Stevens as far as being an inexpensive rifle that is guite flexable about changing barrels and also caliberss. Something about how the barrel is attached, and quality barrels are less expensive and can be changed without a gunsmith. This is "here say" though, check it out for yourself. How old is he? What size? He might be ready for a .243. My daughter started shooting hers at 8, and it's a little more potent on deer. Hate to here the boys first deer ran off and got away after being shot with the .223. Some states there not even legal to hunt big game with. If what I hear about the Stevens thing is right, from there you could go to the .308 with just a barrel change. Everything else would already be right. IF my information is right. I could be completely of base on what I rember hearing.

Figured out the night vision question it is the ITT PVS-14 and I'll get the GG&G mount to go with it to match the one on my EOTech 552. What's the story/comparison on the ITT 6015?

I'm about to order the Badger Ord 20 MOA taper one piece base and the Badger Ord. USMC DMR rings P/N 306-28. Anyone got any comments on them before I order. Are they as good as the Leup Matrk IV/worth the price difference? Comments from all that have them please. I'm tired of the Burris rings although I've had no problems with them I want to go a little heavier duty while changing out to my Leup Mark IV 6.5X20X50 30mm on thte tacticle/target rifle. Gonna replace it with a Night Force of slightly less power on my 300RUM for hunting.

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 08:50:01 (ZULU)

re: budget bolt guns

read positive reviews of the Stevens 200 units. They're a "utility finish" Savage 110 and 10. If whitetail are on the menu, .243 would be an excellent starter center-fire cartridge for a novice shooter.

I've read that the factory recoil pad is rather stiff, so replacing it with something w/more cushioning can be helpful.

http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/Stevens-200.htm

http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/stevens200_041106/

http://thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5190

http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/Stevens200.asp

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/archive/index.php/t-205.html

http://forums.handloads.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11163&PN=1

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 10:51:43 (ZULU)

Jeff, you can't ever go wrong with Badger equipment. I own several Badger bases and ring sets, and his detachable magazine bottom metal, and have always been totally satisfied in every respect.

If you call to place your order you'll be talking to Marty Bordsen, the owner. He's a really nice guy and very knowledgeable. Two thumbs up from me. Badger is the only rings and bases I'll have.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 13:42:10 (ZULU)

Jeff, x a million on the Badger. I have the one piece 20 MOA base and a set of their rings on my "Black Mamba", you will be getting IMHO the best ring/base combo out there for your riffle.

I also have the 1st GEN tactical latch, neat-o little gadget

S/F

Kush

Kush
H, NC, - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 14:45:33 (ZULU)

I equip my firearms as if my life depends upon them - because it might. To echo what Tony et al. said about Badger Ordnance, all of my sniper rifles are equipped with Badger rings and bases, except one which Badger doesn't make a base for.

None have ever come loose or failed in any way.

I haven't tried every possible optic mount, so I can't say how they perform. Badgers work. That's all I need to know.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 17:16:46 (ZULU)

One more thing about Badger equipment. I have a Leupy 4.5-14x40 one inch tube, that has been in the Badger 1" ring reducers inside a set of 30 mm rings that has never caused any problem in about five years of use. Thought I'd throw that out, since every now and then a question is asked about the reducers.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 17:35:22 (ZULU)

Douglas Berry,

With regards to your son's stepping stone rifle, another thing I suggest you look at is the ranges at which your son will/want to shoot.

I unfortunately have an M77 MK II chambered in .223. It came with the heavy stainless bull barrel, with a laminated varmint stock. The twist is 1-12. It has been explained to me largely, that the heavier bullets needed to reach out to, or past 600 yards, require a twist which is faster. Say in the area of 1-9 or 1-10. For accuracy.

Just another thing to take into consideration. Getting a 700 in the configuration that you want is probably much easier, than doing so with the RRRuuu,,, RRRRRuuuuggg,,, well, that one of which you speak.

Yes, I regret my purchase, of long ago.

Hope this helps, and God Bless,

Sean T.
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 18:16:28 (ZULU)

"If you were a politician living in D.C. would you feel comfortable knowing everyone around you is armed? ;-))"

jc: That about sums up the point of the second ammendment, eh?

Sean: 1:9 would only reliably get you to 69gr sierra's as far as "heavy" .224 dia bullets go...you need at least as fast as 1:8 for the 75s (though they "may" stabilize in some 1:9s), 77s, and up.

The army went to 1:7 twist on the M16A2, A3, A4, and M4s, from 1:12 on the A1s. |Originally, they tried 1:14 until the Greely test...yeah, the whole story is kinda neat--but where we are now is all that is important; and that is twisting them fast as heck. We've all heard the stories about highly stabilized penetrator 62gr bullets drilling clean little holes thru and thru the BGs...so there are pros and cons. Not every unit can gets their paws on the sierra-tipped BH 77s or Hornady's 75s...but those tend to be favored by all when available.

Blake ships out on the 23rd of this month. Unbelievable. Yesterday, he had a "DEP" function. I sat with the older NCO while they drilled and played a video game---staying out of the way and shooting the shinola. The station had this new (to me) computer shooting simulator. They had a ~8x15 screen, a projector, a laptop---two M4s and 2 M9s, and a HMMWV station. The program had tons of "modes"---pistol targets, scenarios of driving and shooting (thru Baghdad) etc--it was fun. Blake's scores were conspicuously beyond those of the other kids (and all but one recruiter:)) In fact, on a times stage---I got up from my BS session to go see who it was that was cleaning house in a near rapid fire cadence---only to find my boy "in the zone." I doubt I would have came close to that score (no one did on that "game") I also offered to "store" that thing between uses too:))

Time to go play with some 45s...just plinking cans as part of my ongoing reliability test on this up-sprung para. I'll let the kid use the Kimber so i can try to induce a malf in my smaller piece.

See yas...

Joe M
Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 19:29:38 (ZULU)

The 23rd? That's my birthday Joe, must be a good omen! :) Congratulations to you Blake. Good luck, and thanks for your upcoming service.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 19:49:18 (ZULU)

Hey Hawgs!!!

Happy New Year all --

Pistol Raffle's been going on in the background for almost a year now... Drawing to be held at shot show 2008. Brian Sain and his American snipers.org group came up with a really nice package on the pistol raffle. Be sure to visit http://www.pistolraffle.com

Also - I have on hand a brandy new Armalite 20" upper with bolt/carrier.... see the emporium listing. It was an accidental order. Keeping with my tradition - I ordered a 24" barrel upper / got a 20" upper. No biggie - will sell/trade locally.

Those of you that know me - please contact me directly - if you have something you'd like to trade, etc... I take gold, goods, no animals please - got enuff of those, cash, check, etc....

take care all....

Ken / Kim Hunter

Shop's coming along nicely :))

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 21:26:03 (ZULU)

forwarded comments on this review of the Elcan Specter DR:

http://www.ar15.com/content/products/sights/elcan/

1) He is reviewing the now-obsolete 2006 model

2) The ARMS Levers will close on all in-spec MIL-STD-1913 receivers and rails. Unfortunately some receivers are not within spec.

3) He has missed the point completely with the night vision operation. The sight is designed to be operated with clip-on night vision devices that mount in front of the scope such as the AN/PVS-22. Moving a magnified optical sight forward to put a PVS-14 behind it is not a good idea. If you have to remove the NVD, your optical sight is unusable until you re-position the sight. PVS14 devices are only meant to be used for 'no set eye relief' devices such as Aimpoints and EOTechs.

4) Anyone whose life is not worth $1449, shouldn't buy one.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, January 13, 2008, at 22:24:23 (ZULU)

Rod;

Since the Stevens is merely an economy Savage I like to use them to build nicer rifles on. Keep the action and toss/sell the rest.

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Monday, January 14, 2008, at 02:27:49 (ZULU)

Guys, only 25 or so raffle-ticket-shopping days left until SHOT. Drawing for the LTW custom 1911 package to benefit americansnipers.org takes place at SHOT on Feb. 4 or 5.

This is a real MoFo of a package, not just a high-end custom 1911, but a whole sh'load of sniper-related accessories including a Chris Reeve knife, a hard case from Brack at Starlight, a soft case from Safe Direction, complete custom sharkskin leather rig from Alex Nossar, a duty rig from Safariland, classes from Henk iverson at Strike Tactical Solutions (available to M&P only), a day of private instruction from Matt Burkett PLUS his complete DVD series, and, oh did I mention some Loopu 10X50 Tactical binocs? At least one other armload of other great stuff... well worth the measly $10 a pop for a chance at this, check http://www.pistolraffle.com and help americansnipers.org keep our deployed snipers equipped with the things they need to do their job efficiently and safely.

Ned Christiansen
3R, MI, - Monday, January 14, 2008, at 03:47:15 (ZULU)

The Elcan Spector I saw at the 06 SHOT show wasn't ready for prime time yet. That's the flippable prism model, correct? The Elcans in use by the Army for their MG's(M145?) have external adjustments, which went out of favor for field use with the old Unertls long ago. Nifty cool for target/varmint use, not for combat.

I like the fiberoptic ACOG's(NOT the old NSN model with the fine crosshairs) for magnified rifle optics for general issue to troops. It isn't bad in close, and it gets the job done to at least 500m, which is further than 95%+ people have any business shooting. That said, I've run my SAM-R with 3.5-10 M3 through 1200+rds of mostly close range shooting and didn't perform poorly, so I'd say it's all about the shooter, not so much about the tools.

M855's lack of performance has about zero to do with twist rate of the rifle. The difference in fragmentation between M855 at 1:7 and 1:9 is zero. That bullet is simply too heavily constructed for effective use on people, completely aside from the marginal nature of the 5.56 catridge in general.

Who else is going to SHOT? S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Monday, January 14, 2008, at 04:24:35 (ZULU)

Joe M,

>That about sums up the point of the second ammendment, eh?>

Exactly - got it in one.

Jeff - unColonel - Cooper,

Badger is, hands down, the best. I probably have bought a short ton of Marty's equipment and couldn't ask for better (there ain't any better).

BTW, when you coming back down this way?

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Monday, January 14, 2008, at 05:27:26 (ZULU)

jc As soon as my Badger base and rings get here. I couldn't stand to shoot that rifle with the Ziess any more. Threw my Leup 6.5X20 on it so that I could at least be in the same neighborhood as you guys. Now I've got to by a Night Force for my 300RUM. Not sure whether to be sad or happy about that. I've got cropdusting convention this weekend, and work on plane next, but hopefully after that I'll be there.

I'll stick with my EOTech over the Elcan. I thought about an Acog with the DR on top but was too expensive at the time. Might still go back to one though, just depends on how NV will set up. Anyone with experience and pics tell me about it, I'd like to see how it looks set up. "Acog /DR Op/NV that is."

Jeff unColonel Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Monday, January 14, 2008, at 14:01:05 (ZULU)

Jeff,

Just send me the Zeiss.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, January 14, 2008, at 19:06:13 (ZULU)

Hey Ken, I'll be at SHOT. Wanna try to hook up again this year? Maybe we'll have better luck than last year.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America - Monday, January 14, 2008, at 23:55:27 (ZULU)

Sorry Travis the Ziess is going on my Thompson Center Encore muzzle loader. I'm tired of getting my forehead cut open by the Buckmasters POS. The Buckmasters then has a home on my NEF .243 that gets thrown all over the truck for those "just in case" times. It rides all year long, and I don't want a scope that I'll miss if the truck gets broken into. So, sorry. Everything's got a home, and I still need more. I've got to get a Night Force to replace the scope on my huntng rifle, and oh yea, I almost forgot the TRG 42 I'm buying will need one too. I'm thinking the 3.5x15x56 for the 300RUM and either a 5.5x22x56 or a 8x32x56 for the TRG since it'll only be used for very long range targets.

I made the steal of the week today on some Badger Ord rings today. I wanted a set of the 306-28 "issue" rings and was told by Badger that no one in the country had any. They also said they wouldn't be making them any more. They then told me I didn't need the high rings that I could go with the medium height 306-20 Maximized rings. Well no one had them either, due to Badger making rings for the military and back ordering all rings to everyone else. They said they would be caught up in a few weeks and would start serving civilian distributors again then. Well guess what. The USMC M40A3 "issue" rings, part number 306-24 which are discontinued and have been for a while along with the rest of the issue rings, are almost exactly the same size as the 306-20 Maximized. I found what was supposed to be the last set of them in the country, and they're on the way!!! And, no I didn't pay a higher price because they are now pretty much collectors items. This is the best my luck has been in months. I better shut up now while ahead.

Before anyone jumps all over me, this information may be slightly flawed, but if it is, it came from Badger, so jump all over them.

Jeff Cooper
Little Rock for tonight, AR, - Tuesday, January 15, 2008, at 04:18:20 (ZULU)

"I'm tired of getting my forehead cut open by the Buckmasters POS."

Then you'll want to keep the ACOG on "mild" chamberings:)) No eye relief, but they are exceptionally bright glass for their size. I tried them, but they're just not my style.

Ken M: Common misunderstanding then? I had just connected a series of dots with a limited understanding of old and new---and assumed that the 855 was too stable on entry. On a couple of occassions (two, maybe three)--it was impossible to tell which was entry and which was exit holes. Add to that the 193 and 1:12 that would fragment along the cannelure on impact (again, so I was told and took this on faith forever)--I just figured that the 855 was too stable to upset on flesh. My observations were secondary, limited and hardly scientific...it did not matter that it was the right reason or not---cuz the bottom line was the 855 sucked at putting hurt on BGs. I "assumed" the why of it away at the time, and focused on getting more of the "good stuff" (75s and 77s) up north for my crew.

Yeah, the 855 is a tough little pill---penetration was the goal in designing it. But I would like to know more. At what velocity will it reliably tumble? Did it possibly tumble in my corpses and just flip around for a lucky exit:))? I honestly did not know what a characteristic wound channel for this round looks like---I just used incomplete data to form an "opinion." heheh.

Am interested in knowing the real deal, now that time is the least of my worries.

Joe M
Tuesday, January 15, 2008, at 05:09:05 (ZULU)

Click. Apparently, the answer is more laws.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, KS., U.S.A. - Tuesday, January 15, 2008, at 10:12:17 (ZULU)

Joe, email inbound to rifleman; one .pdf, clean.

Bill

SSG Mac
Tuesday, January 15, 2008, at 11:30:41 (ZULU)

Bill: Thanks. I wonder how i lived so long without reading that:)?

Ken M: Fabrique Nationale is the ultimate source of my misinformation. The M193, according to this study, breaks apart at the cannelure at or above ~2500fps; and the study sort of skips the 855 by mentioning "a similar wound channel." Of the few holes I peered at, it seems I was looking at a base-forward exit, with a rotation occuring inside (if this data is accurate--and it seems to be).

Joe M
Tuesday, January 15, 2008, at 14:11:09 (ZULU)

Joe M, I'm going to have to make time to head back up your direction one of these days, I've been the proverbial one legged man recently.

The M855, like all spitzer bullets, will yaw(tumble) and travel base first upon striking soft tissue. Whether it breaks up on not is dependant on impact V as well as individual bullet strength. Since terminal performance has never been a criteria for US mil ammo manufacture, it's not tested for in lot acceptance, and therefore it varies greatly. M193 has a great rep because it was used primarily at close range, starts out faster and the jackets used in the old days were thinner and/or of more brittle material. It was simply fortuitous, not any sort of planned effect. I'm sure that info regarding twist predates anything FN put out, service rumornets being what they are. If the projo doesn't fragment, the 5.56 projectile will make a small permanent cavity defined by the size of the projo. Place a 5.56 FMJ next to a 7.62FMJ and compare length, which will define the largest portion of the wound track, this is should turn a light on.

One reason snipers seem to be so effective isn't just that we place our bullets properly into the savages. A large portion of it is the fact that we generally shoot unexpecting targets and there has been no startle fight/flight response to jack up their endocrine(adrenal?) system. The 175 SMK isn't exactly great terminally either. Sometimes yes, sometimes no, once again, it's not tested for, so lot variance will bite you in the ass. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Tuesday, January 15, 2008, at 20:05:01 (ZULU)

Ken M: You are always welcome. The ground is a bit tough right now for my steel hanging project--but I am sure we'd manage to find something to shoot at. The coyotes are crazy this time of year (shoot movers?)---earlier this afternoon, I was watching a large turkey cross the field when a yote came tearing ass after it--broad daylight, wide open spaces. They were both heading over a rise, so I had no time to lock and load (I had a phone in hand at the time too--Bravo called:)) Oh, this Saturday we are having a gathering for Blake's send-off. You're welcome for that too!

Geoff M: I figure you have a gig to play, but you are likewise welcome to attend Blake's party. He's going to be in Milwaukee on the night of the 23rd, if you can't make it here sooner.

Damn, he found a friend to join (promotion)--but she DQ'd the physical after barely passing the ASVAB. He's really pushing to go in as a PFC, and is out twisting arms with his recruiter now. That's smart---the headstart adds up over an enlistment in pay differences. I may have shown him that on the calculator:))

Joe M
Tuesday, January 15, 2008, at 22:13:13 (ZULU)

Joe M.,

Is Blake coming down to my AO for his basic training? If he is, please give him my number and I'll buy him a steak at The Point when he gets liberty. Did you get the Sako info I sent?

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The frosty Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, January 16, 2008, at 02:29:02 (ZULU)

The local public radio affiliate (NYC) did a radio profile on Ron Paul. You'd expect this to be as 'tilted' as radio gets...be your own judge.

You can download and listen via your PC or as a podcast.

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/episodes/2008/01/15

I've been amazed at how much sign and billboard coverage the Ron Paul effort has managed in NJ...he has better coverage than any other candidate here...strange.

medicjim
Wednesday, January 16, 2008, at 03:02:09 (ZULU)

Doc: Ooops, yes--I did get that info. I've been distracted lately, trying to get Blake ready--and me ready--for his departure. Million little things all at once:)) I forgot to send my thanks, so I'll thank you publically, and just as publically apologize for my ill manners.

MedicJim: I can't believe your state is trying to undermine the electoral college; doesn't anyone understand that by shifting the electors from statewide to nationwide popular vote, you have disenfranchised yourselves soley to acheive "mob rule" democracy??? Athens, for all its glory, was the cautionary tale that led us to the republic...

Ron Paul attracts all sorts thru trying to follow the letter of the constitution. The non-interventionalist (in no way implying pacifism) attracts the loony left; his desire to shrink the gov attracts anarchists; his "live and let live individualism" free from a nanny-state stance attracts the extreme right folks (racists, separtists, etc). These fringe elements glom on for specific and narrow reads of his positions. As a whole though, a constitutionalist is not about anarchy---merely about shifting the "daily life" aspect of government down to the lowest level where people can account for their local reps. Personally, I will vote for any candidate of any party that convinces me that they are sincere when they hold up a copy of the US Constitution and state "my proposals, my policies and my governing philosophy is summed up in this document...nothing more, and quite possibly less." I wouldn't care if he was from the green party wearing a pink jumpsuit with pumps...heheh.

The problems facing this country are not because of the government failing to do enough; we have these problems because the government has done too much already!

Proposal: raise the gas tax from 18.1 cents by 6 cents per year over the next 4 years, then index this new gas tax to inflation. Why? To pay for the bridges that are falling down. Does anyone recall what that existing 18.1cent tax was for in the first place? Now, does anyone believe that congress has the capability to "set aside" any revenue for a necessary (stated) purpose? This is what is known as throwing good money after bad...or reinforcing failure. Neither makes for good strategy.

Watch for proposals of economic stimulus packages to grow by leaps and bounds as both parties try to convince you that they are "nicer." Without getting into the gory economic details, this will be akin to throwing gasoline (taxed all to hell) on a brushfire. Further revenue declines, further deficit spending (this is called stimulus) combined with an unaccountable congress incapable of budgetary restraint and a series of candidates buying votes with massive social programs---yeash!!! On top of this, record trade deficits (dollars emigrating to foriegn lands) and massive private debt sparring with corporate debt and foriegn cash infusions....hmmm, these are the gory details I thought I would avoid....anyway, this ain't the 50s, 60s and 70s anymore---the Fed monetary policy and tax policies for those years are no longer trying to tame the same tiger. In fact, these so-called fixes are the problem. Citicorp is only just beginning to scratch the surface of a fatal wound. Kuwait isn't that generous, and as the securities unravel further, nobody will want to waste the effort. Inflation may have been 6.7% last year--so unless your raise was bigger---you took a pay cut. And 2007 was a "good economy." I'd be surprised if the foreign holders ride this out with us (basically, "forgiving" hard earned debt) and stave off a global collapse. It goes against human nature to think the world would be so rational. I think self-interest prevails and the shit hits the fan in earnest inside of two years.

The point? Ron Paul's stance against the fed is widely cited as psychotic. If the indicators are to be believed for what they are---he may well look like the prophet in a short time.

For those who refuse to believe that the experts could all be wrong about the conditions of the current economic mess and the needed fixes---I agree; I also can't believe that Rome fell to a bunch of German tribal hillbillies:))

And finally--I'll go offline with my rant about what a dollar is today--the bottom line, no-shit value contained in that POS greenback, if anyone is interested--and why the gold standard and silver backed currencies are the only way to go for liberty (cliche, I know--but the word does have meaning). Hint: A dollar is a representation of your life. There is nothing else behind it. You are a slave to whoever holds them as debt...will discuss offline....I killed enough bandwidth on this crap already:))

Joe M
Wednesday, January 16, 2008, at 04:11:27 (ZULU)

Joe

E-Mail inbound.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Wednesday, January 16, 2008, at 11:00:41 (ZULU)

Joe, what gives you the two-year time frame? (Timing is the most difficult thing to predict)

...and don't underestimate Hillbilly's!

SSG Mac
Wednesday, January 16, 2008, at 11:15:11 (ZULU)

Joe M.,

No apologies needed. I asked because my e-mail is screwy. Think my computer needs an overhaul.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, January 16, 2008, at 13:56:22 (ZULU)

Bill: Two years is a swag; the subprime effects cannot even be calcualted yet---just within bank portfolios (we are not even talking about the repercussions of deflation). That will take time to sink in with the markets. Kuwait, China and other foreign cash infusions will stave off the effects for a while yet, as the weakening dollar attracts buyers for our corporations--this is akin to venture capital that requires some hope of a return and would not continue without outright ownership stakes beyond that first wave recessionary blip; the dollar itself---it floats now, but another round of interest cuts and "tax relief" (rebates?) from congress will drop it yet harder. Then, you have the political cycel--which i am convinced will go for those who would pillage the treasury for the greater good. All this takes time to worm into our minds--after all, the US monetary system is a faith-based religion built on the foundation of this little green piece of paper equating to so much of your time and effort. There is a shallow glide path that artifically maintains an economies previous momentum; think of it as investors who have not yet gotten the memo on hard times ahead---same for consumers; how many wage workers learn that the business is failing; managers know months in advance that their business is on the rocks--the worker finds out long after the warning signs, usually when the pink slips hit the desk, eh? Those same and similar effects carry over throughout every sector of the economy--the little bad news here, the little there is often ignored by the as-yet unaffected sectors. A recession's actual starting point, therefore, is always diagnosed a few years after the facts. Based on the data I am looking at, this would be toward the end of the 3d quarter 07. Does anyone doubt that the value of the consumer house has much greater reach than merely property asessments? Think of it this way: If you buy a house for 145K, and it devalues to 108K as your neighbors bone up their mortgage (and banks fire-sell inventory to cover other bad paper)--the price deflates; now try to get a car loan...you are "unsecure" for 37K already--and the banks are being burned bad by "bad debt." Credit disappears for all but the most worthy, and auto employees and other big-ticket workers are the first to take it in the shorts. It rolls from there---plus, credit cards also start to raise rates, squeezing otherwise healthy bottom lines by gobbling more of their discretionary funds. This is starting to pattern out all around us.

Oh and the difference between what happens today vs. what happens yesterday vis a vis monetary policy (taxes, interest rates and supply)----the FED no longer holds the reigns of the USD; there is so much of it sitting in foreign holdings that any one or a combination could move our currency (there is only one direction they can move it, too). So, by trying to increase liquidity in a time of slowdown, the politicians will add to the USD decline by creating public debt (printing money, rebates, etc) and the fed will worsen this by slashing interest rates yet again (devaluing the currency abroad). As foreign investors watch their investment go from 1USD to .90cents...to 75cents...to 45cents---when do they bail? And holy crap, when they do, expect inflation like you have never seen! A global collapse of trading on US treasuries could result in dumps at .11 cents on the dollar easily in a short time (remember the nature of economics--faith---the loss thereof feeds on itself too)--and that my friends equates to 30 dollar a gallon gas!

So, two years to kick this in the pants accounts for the cycle of the bank crisis and the election, and assumes that nobody will have the wisdom to counter their own national self interest (OPEC and China, primarily).

Joe M
Wednesday, January 16, 2008, at 15:20:00 (ZULU)

Hello Gentlemen,

first I'd like to say what a great site this is, You have my greatest repect for it, your knowledge and your chosen professional service. Thank you for being here and allowing me to read, learn and ask my question.

I am interested in building a .50 BMG match grade rifle. not that I'm going to any matches but.....I'm new to this caliber and in the research stage. Just wondering about actions and opinions on which are the best? Figured I'd ask the experts. I'm interested in bolt action but is single shot better than cliped. looked at McBros, Barret and Armalite but was interested in any/all others for comparison and availability, also interested in opinions on the necked down versions of this round.

George Daly
Dickson, TN., U.S. - Thursday, January 17, 2008, at 01:03:57 (ZULU)

Gents,

Joe M., thanks for the update on our fiscal status, value of the dollar, and how that all may play out. At this point scary would be an understatement. What bothers me is that our leaders (both parties)have brushed concernes aside, pooh-poohed them, or falsified numbers to hide the truth from the populace. As you noted, when the fed starts haveing "fire sale" interest rates things are going to really sticky. Escpecially with China and foreign interests holding huge amounts of treasurey certificates(correct term?)that can be called for payment any time. All this while we are choosing a new president, shake up of power in DC, etc. All in the next 12-18 months. Your estimate of 2 years may be a bit generous.

We definetely need to get back to a Gold or Silver Standard.

All this while we listen to the same lies/promises that this will be taken care of immediately after the election. Perhaps Ron Paul's recommendations are not so ludicrous or far fetched.

Bolt-san, you said it again concerning the cost of medical care. I've managed to pick up a secondary infrection in my knee so am wondering how much that's going to add to the total bill. The surgery it'self was about $4K. This is not good. I'm long past the stage I can make a living as a male gigelo.

Bravo and Joe, I still think the 1:9 twist for current 223's is a good one for everything up to 70 grains. Many are trying 75-77-80-90 grainers, but I feel you are really stretching the cartridge past is useful design limits. Even the militaries 1:7" twist might be a bit slow for the 90 Gr. /SMK's

The SCOTUS decision on the Heller case is looking like it's going to be a non-decision if the indicator's are true. Lets see, "you have a right to be armed unless the government renders you defenseles prior to the need, bases on their definition at that time" Did I get that right?

Shaun, you just don't get better than Badger Ordnance. I have a number of their rail and rings...couldn't be happier. There are a few other makers of note too. Another case of you get what you pay for...

More later.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Thursday, January 17, 2008, at 06:35:16 (ZULU)

Guys, Washington needs a good cleaning after most Politicos

have their Asses Tared & Feathered and run outa town on a rail !!

Regards,We the Disgusted People !

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, US of NA - Thursday, January 17, 2008, at 10:45:17 (ZULU)

Anyone up for a good ol' fashioned trade war? Click...

(talk about brain dead, anyone bother with history anymore?)

George: welcome aboard. I'm looking at a .50 soon for myself, and have pretty much nailed it down to the AR50 for value and performance. A repeater does not offer me anything, since I figure I have 2000 yards in which to try to get off a follow up. It only adds to the price and the ability to wallow in that wonderful pressure wave a tad faster. No, not needed IMHO. The semi's by Barret are not as accurate as some may believe either---but i do not know about other offerings beyond the M82 and M107s.

I hope someone chimes in with some data on "components." I'm interested in learning more about builds myself, out of curiosity.

Wes: I do not beleive that the economists or politicians "lie" about the economy--rather, they just don't know. The Fed, for example, is suppsoed to regulate the supply of dollars---but, how can they with congress "printing" dollars by over spending the budget? these foreign held debt dollars are a de facto "Fed" onto themselves. It is like liberalism; they don't mean to cost Michigan jobs--they merely wanted the money to be "nice." heheh. Ignorance, not malfeascence, is the driving force. Another example is the "recent" 2001 and 92 recessions--they responded to the usual tactics. But in 92--no euro alternative dollar existed, and in 2001, gold was ~300 US; meaning the dollar was still a good place to earn a few extra dollars. That has allchanged...but the "solutions" have not....and that is what scares me.

The only solution that will stave off a world-wide recession is for congrASS to slash federal spending---forget the dollar---now is the time to shore-up our debt! How likely is this? They won't use the money they have to fix bridges (they are looking for "more" as we speak to do this)--why would they find the discipline to maintain our credit rating abraod? heheh; can't put their name on that monument, now can they:))

Now that the repubs are playing the game of spend it before the taxpayer even earns it...it is not good.

Joe M
Thursday, January 17, 2008, at 19:57:50 (ZULU)

JoeM,

What you're talking about has been going on for decades. It's just accelerating. Frog in the pot? I think so.

Duman
Thursday, January 17, 2008, at 22:05:07 (ZULU)

Duman--email inbound. I mercifully took this topic offline finally:)) I may have misunderstood your point....so read that as "yeah, and..." rather than "yes, but..."

Joe M
Friday, January 18, 2008, at 01:36:14 (ZULU)

George,

I am in the process of putting one together(on a budget). I picked up(waiting for deliver) a 50 cal upper. (link) I am going to order a AR lower that is designed for use on bolt action large bore uppers(link). I emailed back and forth with the manufacturer / machinist and decided that I was willing to give it a shot. (Pun intended)

The Manufacturer claims (Sheesh I know... taken with a bit o' salt ) that he has been able to maintain a 6" group at 1k and that he has a friend who can maintain a 4" group at 1k. He claims that he has been able to hit a 5 gal bucket 2 out of 3 shots with with his upper in .416 barrett out at 1530m ( 1 mile). I understand that he is trying to sell uppers but I don't think he is going to make crazy claims that can easily be disproved. IMHO Besides most people blow more than this upper costs on a day in vegas, not to mention a whole weekend. I just figure i get something out of it... and then go play poker with friends for chips...

Gents, Test went.. hmm... well not bad. 200 questions... I had about 5 days notice and more pubs and manuals I was suppose to read... LOL... Got to love that

As to this whole mess we are looking at that Joe brought up. I just hope I am home long enough to get the things I need to finished. I think I may need to pick up some more ammo... BWG

Stay Safe,

Morgue

Upper

http://www.bohicaarms.com/far_50.html

Lower

http://www.safetyharborfirearms.com/Single_Shot_Lower/single_shot_lower.html

Mourge
Overseas, - Friday, January 18, 2008, at 01:37:50 (ZULU)

I'd like to say Thank You to Steve at Triad Tactical for the base for my 308 that is on the way as of tomorrow. As promised, I owe you an appology after receiving an expalaination as to why I haven't receiced the it yet. A lot of people read this board and I figured sooner or later I'd hear one way or another, good or bad. I'm glad it turned out good. I'd also like to let everyone else here know that Steve had the lowest prices on the Badger bases that I ran across while researching them on the web. After hearing the reason for the delay, I guess you could say I had a hand in it myself. And after the problems we've had here with UPS in the last month, I had to start wondering what was up with the delivery. He also informed me that he has a set of Badger 306-24's and a set of 306-76's. These are the "Issue" rings that have six screws on one ring and four on the other. From what I was told by Badger, there won't be any more of these being made, so if anyone needs a set of bases for a heavy recoiling rifle, but not as bad as a .50, now's the time to get them. The links in my name. Thanks also to the PD for relaying my previous post to him so we could get it all figured out. I'm not going to retype or copy and paste a bunch of my previous post, but let me tell everyone that if you want Badger Ordnance merchandise, get it ordered now. From what I've received from them so far, it's all such high quality that it'll stay in short supply and high demand for a while. If we keep adding to the DM and sniper roles the military alone is going to keep them quite the busy company. And, from my searches for what I needed, everyone is backordered on the most common or popular items. Check out Steve's site, turns out he's a good guy, and we just had some miscomunication, and some confusion caused in part by myself.

Jeff Cooper
Back home in Gadsden, TN, - Friday, January 18, 2008, at 02:12:55 (ZULU)

I'm not sure 'xactly what you're saying, but if it's about Triad Tactical, they're good to go.

Might wan't to check out... http://www.snipershide.net/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

Lot's a commerce going on there.

John
WI, - Friday, January 18, 2008, at 02:53:20 (ZULU)

I'm not sure 'xactly what you're saying, but if it's about Triad Tactical, they're good to go.

Might wan't to check out... http://www.snipershide.net/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

Lot's a commerce going on there.

John
WI, - Friday, January 18, 2008, at 02:53:43 (ZULU)

George,

Welcome to the bar. Great place. Gets a little crazy sometimes, but that's part of what makes it great.

jc (dreaming of having a .50)

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Friday, January 18, 2008, at 05:00:54 (ZULU)

Shouldn't this be big news?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,323727,00.html

medicjim
Friday, January 18, 2008, at 17:24:26 (ZULU)

Click for a glimpse of the global economic outlook from an EU perspective.

MedicJim: Who is this ex-ganger? I didn't catch any special angle on this case...am I missing something?

Joe M
Friday, January 18, 2008, at 17:51:13 (ZULU)

He was subcontracted by Los Angeles ($1.5M) to fight gun and gang violence.

medicjim
Friday, January 18, 2008, at 19:14:59 (ZULU)

.50BMG rifles;

Just a point for those who may not have thought about it. Before getting one you need to find out for sure if you will have a place to shoot it. Not every range allows them and some private land owners are also not really comfortable with allowing them on their property.

I'm not against them by any means but just want folks to be aware of a possible problem that can cost them a lot of money. Prime example is the fella who came to out to our club with one and wanted to shoot it. We don't allow them due to lack of impact area. He was under the impression that just because we have a 1000 yard berm that he could shoot it. Needless to say he wasn't a happy camper several months later when he had trouble trying to sell it since he couldn't find a place to shoot it.

Just be sure that you have a place to shoot it.

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Friday, January 18, 2008, at 19:23:15 (ZULU)

MedicJim: Oh--yeah, I caught that part awrighty! But I breezed by with my typical Calforndisdain and was looking for a national angle.

Diesels in sub-zero; nevah fugget to plugger'n:)) It took a grill-load of charcoal, a large fly (over the front end), a trickle charger, the oilpan and freeze plug heaters, two full days of trying, and countless crank attempts to get enough molasses oil to idle with 3 cylinders. In six years of diesels, this was my first dumbass miss on the plugs. That left the Piano in the bed, which me and the boy just muscled onto the deck. These are heavy things. I'll enlist party-goers tomorrow to get it into the house:))

The diesel is in the garage now too! Tomorrow's high will be minus 7. Tonights low is just going to be stupid cold.

I rather doubt I will put any bullets downrange in this weather at least on saturday.

Go Pack!!!

Joe M
Friday, January 18, 2008, at 21:29:47 (ZULU)

Joe M,

Thats just bein forgetful...Dumbass is using 6 cans of starting fluid and "ether locking" it.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Friday, January 18, 2008, at 23:43:32 (ZULU)

Joe, how's this for a by-line...

No Honor Among Thieves.

Los Angeles pays felon / gang member $1.5 Million to disarm law abiding public...then fires him for nepotism and arrests him for possession of a machine gun.

I'm sure a real 'news' professional could do better, but I do amuse myself. <G>

medicjim
Saturday, January 19, 2008, at 01:53:22 (ZULU)

When someone else hires relatives, it's nepotism. When politicians do it, it's finding the best qualified person for the job.

WR Moore
Saturday, January 19, 2008, at 04:10:39 (ZULU)

I always thought when politicians did it it was called ....INCEST

UnPat
Wi, USA - Saturday, January 19, 2008, at 04:38:31 (ZULU)

Jody,

> .50BMG rifles;

'Tis the sad state of affairs I find myself in. No place to shoot the thing and a wife whose attitude is less than supportive. For example, "You wanna spend HOW MUCH on a rifle you can't shoot?"

Sad, I tell you, very sad. ;-))

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Saturday, January 19, 2008, at 05:06:58 (ZULU)

Joe Try some of the Lucas products for your diesel along with plugging it up. They advertise that they will pay for themselves in fuel savings, and according to my average MPG readout in the truck, they do. I use it every time I fill up, and I don't have problems with fuel gelling either. Untill this year I never had a place to plug up and never had a problem, course it don't get to minus stupid down here either.

jc I informed the wife that I would be going to Memphis to shoot on Monday the 28th if it's not stupid cold, or raining, or anything like that. Hopefully all my scope mounting stuff will be here by then. Do they not allow .50's at MSSA? I guess there's another reason for me to stick with 338LM for my next purchase.

UPS came yesterday to pick up the box they misdelivered, and the driver still couldn't understand why he was having to deliver it somewhere else. Luckily my daughter was the one who talked to him, and all he had to hear about from her was "why her Christmas presents got lost". I would have had more to say, such as, "If you won't come inside the fence to deliver a package because of dogs, why would you leave the package inside the fence for the dogs to chew up?" I know that most of the UPS drivers are pretty good, why did I have to get the one that's a shining example of affirmative action gone wrong? Benjamin Franklin said something like "most men are promoted until they reach thier level of ignorance and there they stay". This guy has reached his.

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Saturday, January 19, 2008, at 15:08:18 (ZULU)

Guys, If anyone finds an S&W Model 76 Subgun around,please send it to

the Wayne Police Dept in New Joisey !

They seem to have misplaced theirs and it's all over the news here.

Did anyone say BATF Investigation ??

I sure feel safe in the Peoples Republic of.

Whata crew !

Regards,

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, US of Ah - Saturday, January 19, 2008, at 15:54:53 (ZULU)

Just a quick passin' through and catchin' up on youz bums...

... cuz I'm getting papers ready for the US Dept of Justice, and "Da' FBI"

Got a sworn affidavit this morning that is the death knell on the judge - proves he was bought and paid for.

---

George...

I shoot a 50BMG and a few other guys here do too.

I have an AR-50, with a B&L 10x Tactical (the real B&L, not the Bushnell POS)... it's mounted on a Barrett adjustable elevation mount, so I have the full 146 moa of "up" available - set up this way, it will reach out to 2,700 meters.

It shoots ~1/2" at 100yds with 750 A-Maxs, and 5/8th to 3/4th with military pulls.

I have the Hornady loading press (5x better then the RCBS), and the Hornady dies are Benchrest quality... I do use a separate RCBS seater for the military pulls, cuz the Hornady match seater is too precise to seat the military pulls.

The AR-50 is a friggin' JOY to shoot - I have shot 144 rounds in one day, with no discomfort to my shoulder - but I learned to keep my mouth closed when it goes off, or my teeth will hurt that night from the concussion.

The muzzle break is awesome. One of the guys here called it "a condominium for hamsters". It DOES WORK - but don't let on-lookers stand off to the right or left of you in the path of the break... the muzzle break will remove their clothes... hmmmm that has possibilities!!

The Barretts look kewl ("... as seen on TV"), but they can't hit shit with a snowshoe.

Also... no need for a magazine, cuz you can't shoot it that fast, cuz you can't get the gun back on target that fast.

Think of it as "Very light artillery"... shooting one is a deliberate activity, not to be hurried. If you are going to shoot far, you will need bubbles for the scope, and all the other long range poopoo.

As to the necked down variants of the 50BMG. Well, here's my take on it. For the kinda of money you are talking about ($5,000~ish, with all the kit and loading poop), you want something D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T, not just the same ol' same ol' with more recoil.

If you just want the same ol' with a bigger bang, get a Sako TRG42 or AW in 338 Lap... very accurate, over the counter ammo, no bans in any state, etc

But with the 50BMG, you get all of those nifty "pyrotechnical wonders" like the LRT that will trace into next week, as it flies over the next state's border... blue tips, APITs and M-48's. Now THAT'S different, and a hellova lotta fun.

If I was limited to just regular bullets, I would get a high end .338 Lap.

If the state that you live in won't let you shoot it, then MOVE - the 50BMGs are worth it, and life is too short to live it without a 50BMG at some point! ;)))

---

Hey Joisey...

I have a special home for lost and stray subguns. Tell them to send it here ;)))

'lito

(Doing what I do best - paper work :((

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, January 19, 2008, at 20:19:46 (ZULU)

The secret to shooting a Barrett M82A1 or now the M107 is that you have to be straight behind the gun, or actually angled slightly toward your strong side, so that the gun is recoiling straight back into your center of mass. Doing that, I have shot 5 rounds into an MOA in about 10 seconds at 700 yards. They are, however, generally not all that accurate at really long distances.

The AR50 is very accurate, and, as 'Lito noted, the muzzle brake is very effective.

The absolute shit, though, is the M99 Barrett in .416. It's accurate, and has a muzzle brake so effective that the rifle simply does not move in recoil.

Yes, there is a period in that sentence after recoil. It's easier to shoot than any .308 I've fired. You can watch your rounds hit the target with no problem. It just doesn't move.

If I had a serious interest in ultra long-range shooting, that's what I'd grab - unless, of course, I had to lug it a long way on foot.

For that, I'd take a PGW Timberwolf in .338 Lapua. Light, accurate, hits hard. With the 250 grain Lapua Scenar, cinder block walls may be concealment - but they sure as heck aren't cover.

Perhaps next year after the youngest daughter graduates from college, I'll be able to afford ammo for one of those.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Sunday, January 20, 2008, at 00:25:25 (ZULU)

Joisey Steve,

Send the PD a roll of 550 cord and detailed schematics on how to dummy cord a weapon. I'm sure they'll appreciate the tip, NOT!

Too funny.

Travis, been mo' busy at FSI, 0700-1900 every day in the vertigo inducing machine followed by a few hours on mind numbing classes, if I get a break in the action and can get away, I'll try to drop you a line. If I can't swing it, thanks for the invite anyway

S/F

Kush

Kush
Havelock, NC, - Sunday, January 20, 2008, at 00:36:44 (ZULU)

WC 846

I have the opportunity to get some bulk WC 846 powder. Does anyone have experience and load data for

308 bolt

308 semi auto

223 semi auto

Thanks,

Scott

Scott Smith
UT, - Sunday, January 20, 2008, at 04:36:05 (ZULU)

WC846:

Start low, work up.

.308 Win in M1A w/150g projectile:

http://pirate4x4.net/pipermail/m1-m14/2001-December/000820.html

.223 Rem w/55g and 62g projectile, probably AR15 pattern semi:

http://mysite.verizon.net/jcjacobvt/images/milload.html

Try GOOGLE searches on BLC-2 and WC846 equivalency

http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/reload/reload.pl?noframes;read=24204

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, January 20, 2008, at 06:25:50 (ZULU)

Jeff,

Nope, MSSA absolutely does not allow those beastly .50 caliber rifles firing into their berms. They don't even allow derivatives, so there goes the Barrett .416 (which is what I'd really like to have - Lindy's got the right poop on 'em). There are some places around where you can shoot 'em, but getting permission in advance to use somebody's land can be a PITA. And then ya gotta drive quite a ways. There's always Camden, but I'm not sure if they're still in operation. Have to check on that.

And unless it IS stupid cold on the 28th we'll be out there. Minus our .50's and derivatives. Maybe Scott will bring his .338 LM. Anyway, come on down. Look forward to seein' you again.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Sunday, January 20, 2008, at 07:31:43 (ZULU)

Joe, when it gets below 10 or so, we usually just pull start 'em. Otherwise, you're just burning up the starter. I've seen the heavy gauge starter motor wire incandesce like a lightbulb filament trying to turn that crank through 50qts of tarlike oil. Those propane torpedo heaters are great too, you just have to be careful about the intensity of the heat, more fan, less burner is the way to go. Having a warm motor is no good when all the plastic wires and air lines are melted;) A lot of folks just leave 'em running when it gets seriously cold, $20 worth of fuel per day is cheaper than the hassle you just went through, right? ;) I never can convince the trucking companies of this fact, and they keep paying $300+ for us to come get them started because the driver shut the truck off when it was 3 degrees outside while he spent his 10hrs rest at his house and didn't plug in.

The Lucas oil products seem to be pretty good. There really isn't anything you can use to thin the oil in the cold, aside from using a synthetic oil which is kinda spendy when you use 48 qts per motor. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Sunday, January 20, 2008, at 10:30:20 (ZULU)

Win for the good guys:

Anti-Military Lawyer In Court 18-Jan-2008:

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2008/01/anti-military-l.html

At 1400 hours the defendant showed up, and was told that he was half an hour late. The Judge stated on the record that the defendant had done the same thing during the previous court date, and he said that the defendant called and said that wanted to wait for the media to leave. The Judge said "That is not the way I run my courtroom." He increased the bail and took him into custody and told him to try and work out a deal with the State. About 25-35 marines and assorted military were there.

The case was recalled at 14:22, and the State said that the defendant had asked for permission to put his belt and such back on. The Judge said, "Treat him like all the other prisoners." The defendant was brought out and the plea deal that they had worked out was entered into the record.

The Judge asked him if he had committed the specific acts he was accused of. The defendant hemmed and hawed, and the Judge raised his voice to make him say yes or no. The defendant agreed, and the Judge read the facts into the record. Several times, the Judge said if there were no deal, he would be given a court date just like any other defendant, and he could try and make bail soon.

The deal: 1 year Social Service Supervision, restitution of 600 dollars to be paid to Social Services and which would go to the Injured Marine Semper Fi fund, to be paid by February 25th, 2008, and $50/month in supervision fees.

The Judge then, in as angry a voice as I have ever heard him use, scolded the defendant, saying that the Marine license plates the complaining witness had were not vanity plates or about ego, but the proceeds go toward the Marine and Navy scholarship fund for the children of fallen soldiers, sailors and marines. These Marines protect his very existence "so people like you can enjoy their freedom." He further said that the reason there were so many in the courtroom and so much public interest is that the Marines have a tradition since 1775 that "No Marine gets left behind." Several Hoorahs in the courtroom.

And then the deal was done, and he was taken away by the sheriffs to be released later.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, January 20, 2008, at 16:38:27 (ZULU)

Video country:

promising project for 2009 release:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0374463/

"The Pacific" - TV mini-series

A 10-part mini-series from the creators of "Band of Brothers" telling the intertwined stories of three Marines during America's battle with the Japanese in the Pacific during World War II.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, January 20, 2008, at 21:14:56 (ZULU)

Rod, Many thanks for the update on the Lawyer/Marine fiasco. It is truely good that the ASS got PART of what he deserved...

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Monday, January 21, 2008, at 02:53:18 (ZULU)

re: anti-military lawyer

The supplemental detail on the web pages suggest he'll also have to make *civil* restitution, probably when the victim's insurance company uses the criminal case detail as evidence. Remember his allocution to the details of the offense as demanded by the judge? We know how relentless insurance company lawyers can be...

Indications are that disbarment proceedings will move forward on the lawyer too, but that supposedly is a glacially slow process in Illinois. (The wheels grind infinitely slowly, but infinitely fine).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, January 21, 2008, at 03:10:22 (ZULU)

Does anyone have an arched 1911 mainspring housing you would trade for a Kimber flat housing?

CDC'
Monday, January 21, 2008, at 03:47:55 (ZULU)

CDC,

I have one that came off an old Colt Commander. I would guess that it's aluminum. Will that work for you?

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The chilly Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Monday, January 21, 2008, at 04:35:13 (ZULU)

All,

Just came from the funeral of Lt Carl DeLau . Carl was president of our gun club. A decorated vet of WWII (3rd cav) and captain of homicide and vice for over 20 years in Cleveland. He had retired from LE in the mid seventies.

The trip from the church to the Western Reserve Veterans Cemetary in Rittman,Oh ran mostly along I-71. LE had every intersection along the route blocked with a squad car.

The service at the cemetary was very impressive. One of the grounds keepers told me it was the biggest service he had seen there.

The cemetary is very nice. Not like Arlington but give it 100 years. If you are in the area its worth a short visit.

Carl was one of the vanishing breed of true warriors. He will be missed.

Stan Caniglia
Hudson, Oh, - Monday, January 21, 2008, at 15:37:28 (ZULU)

CDC I've got two somewhere 1 aluminum and 1 blued, I got to find them, I went to where they were supposed to be and they aren't there. If I can find them, your choice free. If I can't I'm gonna be pissed about with where they are cause I hate it when things "walk away".

jc I've got a place to shoot one, if you know someone who has one. 1200yds I think. There's no back stop but you shoot slightly down a hill into a flat field so as long as nobody's in the field it's gonna stop there. If not it would have to make it through some pretty thick woods before it got to anything else. I we can go any time, but if I take somebody with something like that I'd have to call the owner, or he'd be pissed that he didn't get to see it. I think I'd kinda like to have something necked down too. OR, something with easily interchangable barrels and have both. The bolt, mags, and everything else could be the same. I had an article that Morgue sent me about the 338LM. The writer was using a rifle called the Erma SR 100 that had this capability, and could be quickly changed between 7.62NATO, 300WM, and 338LM. Hopefully somebody will do the same for the .50 and variants, since it would be even easier using the came parent case. Oh well.., one day. First I've got to get a .338 and scopes for it and now my 300RUM. That'll be this summer.

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Monday, January 21, 2008, at 15:41:46 (ZULU)

SHOT 2008

Who's going to SHOT? I'm looking to be there on SAT-SUN.

Duman
Monday, January 21, 2008, at 16:39:41 (ZULU)

I know a federal judge in Illinois, I'll have to call him up and see what the chances are that this lawyer dirtbag gets disbarred.

I'll be at SHOT Duman. Are you and Bravo gonna be there together this year? Give me a shout and we'll hook up. I'll email you my cell number.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America - Monday, January 21, 2008, at 17:04:11 (ZULU)

Mourge check this out. I may have to get one instead of the TRG if they're available in the USA. I'm still looking for more info on it. send me any links about it, if you've already heard of it and have any.

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn48-e.htm

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Monday, January 21, 2008, at 17:22:34 (ZULU)

Duman, roster mail for you in the pipe, re: SHOT SHOW

Bill

SSG Mac
Monday, January 21, 2008, at 20:28:16 (ZULU)

I can attest that Steve Sheldon of Triad is one of the best guys around to do business with and he is also a very experienced LE sniper.

No coincidence that he is ALSO one the the AmericanSnipers.org crew.

Both he and I will be at SHOT with the posse.

PLEASE come by and say hi.

New challenge coins friggin' rock.

out

brian k. sain
Monday, January 21, 2008, at 22:25:47 (ZULU)

Doc: The commander housing should fit fine. I appreciate the offer, but I'll be happy to pay for it. Email coming.

Jeff: It looks like Doc has me fixed up. Thanks for the offer.

CDC'
Monday, January 21, 2008, at 23:20:24 (ZULU)

SSG Mac - I'll be looking for the email, thx!

InSain - I'll be sure to make the pilgrimage over to your area, I still carry the first challenge coin with me. I'm going to rondy-voo with Bravo. We make an unlikely pair, wandering the show and checking out the... er... 'marketing efforts' made by the vendors.

Triad Tactical - I bought some stuff from them on a Friday, and it was delivered on the following Tuesday. Pretty quick turn around, for an internet order.

Duman
Monday, January 21, 2008, at 23:45:39 (ZULU)

Rod,

Thanks for the update. That little faggot lawyer needs to spend a coupla weeks in a handpicked pod at the county jail. One with plenty of vets. I bet he'd learn to shut his damn mouth.

Sounds like the kinda guy you'd want to drop off in Watts wearing only a sheet and a hood glued to his head.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 03:05:13 (ZULU)

Insain...

New challenge coins...?

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 04:03:51 (ZULU)

Hit the site pal. www.AmericanSnipers.org

Click PRODUCTS. Click on the images to enlarge.

Just got a few in hand today. The rest are being sent to SHOT SHOW.

Borrowed heavily from USMC Sniper lore.

Unapologetically non-pc ... these are for the shooters.

Hey, we are in LE Section Booth #8505 right near Larue Tactical and the Blue Gun people ... methinks.

NSSF/SHOT has comped that booth for the last 4 years. GREAT people.

We won the NDIA Carlos N. Hathcock II Award last year and the USMC SS/A inducted me in as the only non-Marine member they have ever had.

Damn humbling stuff pals. Great, great people in the community.

Busy damn year. My guys are the best.

Lost my mom in a car fire.

Son got to play in the Orange Bowl with ZZ Top.

May be retiring from the PD this year.

Homicide this am.

Need glass for my bolt gun but got a Short Dot for the AR.

Best regards ole pals.

brian k. sain
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 04:19:41 (ZULU)

Travis,

With the cost of fuel...East St Louis is alot closer.He would be just as bruised.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 04:20:16 (ZULU)

Jeff,

here is a link I found to the ERMA... I did some reading up on it a couple months ago, I must admit it caught my interest as well, but The TRG performs well enough I couldn't justify to myself Paying more for another stick... But I was tempted... the thing is I don't know anyone who has one and haven't heard anything really about it on any of the other shooting sites I Lurk at. Everything I am hearing is TRG, AI, periodically the Blazer and some custom rifles.

According to this page the Price tag on an Erma is aprox 9k... seems a touch pricey even when compared with a loaded TRG... Hell you could get the TRG with the Folding stock, TOP end glass (a NFO or USO) and buy a few hundred rounds off the shelf at that price...

I admit to being partial. With the blazer you have a gun that is designed to have the parts changed out quickly and calibers switched on the same platform. I guess i feel that Jack of all trades master of none could be applied. You may gain the ability to change calibers and parts easily but it seems to me you could give up strength and durabliity IMHO. I am not to fond of the straight pull feature on the Blazer for something like a 338 lapmag, i wouldn't hesitate for something like a 7.62 but I have heard a couple stories or it releasing early and people losing eyes...

I have talked to a couple people who have them in 7.62 with THOUSANDS of rounds through them, and I have HEARD that Remington is coming out with a Rem 700 that is chambered in 338 Lapmag. I don't know if they added strength or material to the reciever to do this or not... just makes a man wonder...

BKS,

Sorry to hear about your mom Bro, Hope things are going better. Sounds like your Son had a good time at the Orange Bowl, Did you get to watch?

PM inbound

Later gents,

Morgue

Erma

http://www.snipercentral.com/sr100.htm

TRG42

http://www.snipercentral.com/trg21.htm

Mourge
Overseas, - Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 05:31:47 (ZULU)

Global markets (began in Japan) had major sell off today and lost more cash in London alone than the stimulus program will inject into our economy (once, on consumerism alone---no real stimulus beyond that). The thinking is too little, too late on the Bush proposal---but I think it is too much debt, compounded by another round of debt, that melted the worlds markets. Our debt is coming home to roost after we sent it to every major banking system throughout the world. I probably sound like my tin hat is on too tight over this economic crap, but I really do think that we are solving the symptoms and not the larger problem--and the problem never existed before on such a scale (US Debt, consumer debt, easy monetary policy for 15 years fueling speculative debt)--and the lack of a prior episode makes this the proverbial elephant in the room. Click for the excrutiating details...

Hey BKS! Don't be such a stranger! That is cool that the USMC honored you; rare too. But what you've done is just as rare. One helluva effort you guys do for our snipers!

You have our condolences on your loss...words fail me. But prayers will be said for your family.

Joe M
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 05:40:17 (ZULU)

Joe M., Ken M. & others.

RE: 5.56 bullets "tumbling" or "pinwheeling" when hitting a soft (fleshy?) target.

Over the past few months there have been comments about the terminal effectivenes of some 5.56 bullets being greater because they tumble when they hit, whereas other type bullets pass straight thru without much real damage. Several other scenarios have been promelgated regarding bullet orientation as the reason for the differences in terminal effectiveness. Well, I propose that it has nothing-to-little to due with tumbling or bullet orientation, but rather it is primarily due to a combination of impact velocity, bullet materials and hydraulics. I haven't been able to verify this beyond experimental evidence on thinwall containers of water, so if anyone can point me to a scientific or experimental evidence to support the "tumble" theory I'll happily change my tune.

JayDee
SoCentral, WA, US of A - Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 08:42:35 (ZULU)

JayDee...

I don't know what you mean by "Over the past few months"... like some secret information is leaking out of the Pentagon or something...

This is very old shit that has been studied to death, and documented by the top people in the military.

And you're about 30+ years too late for your personal theories.

It was even a international complaint against the USA by Viet Nam, that we intentionally designed these bullets to tumble and break apart.

The bullets DO tumble, and some of the break apart at the cannelure, and no we didn't deliberately design them to do that.

Why is it that so many guys come to this site and make their first posting...

... a "Their new theory" about how guns work, or how bullets fly, or how to chamber a barrel by using a Black & Decker hand drill???

Are we back in kindergarten??

I'm gettin' too old for this shit!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 10:41:06 (ZULU)

BKS: That's horrible. That's just awful. I can't imagine...

Gentlemen: Thanks for the help on the mainspring housing. It is appreciated.

CDC'
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 11:07:31 (ZULU)

BKS,

You have my deepest sympathy and you'll be in our prayers.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The chilly Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 13:12:33 (ZULU)

BKS - Sorry to hear that. My sincere condolences.

Joe - In my 12+ years working for the railroad, I noticed a trend. The trend is: lots of traffic on our daily train coming out of Chicago = economy is on the uptick. Traffic slacks off on that train = 3-6 months later the economy bottoms out.

Two months ago, we were running 100 or more cars on every train. The last three trains I have pulled out of there were 70, 62, and 30 cars. Some of that is seasonal (grain rush is over). If it doesn't seriously pick up by the time it starts to get warm out, I will predict something that the media will at least call a "serious downturn" in the economy this summer.

And IMO, on the grand scale, the base card being yanked out of the bottom of our "house of cards" is the disappearance of cheap gasoline.

JD - Are you a troll? What a post!

M193 is effective because when it impacts above a certain velocity, it yaws 90' and fragments big time.

M855 yaws slower than M193 because of reduced velocity and the steel penetrator. It generally does not fragment well, if at all.

The newer heavy match loads being used by the SF community yaws better than the M855 and fragments better than M193, and will behave this way at much lower velocities. On top of that, it is quite accurate. All of which is why they love it so much.

From the "ammo oracle" -

"In fact, some more recent work suggests that some heavier, lower velocity rounds are superior in terms of wound ballistics. Current tests of newer, magazine sized 75, 77, 87 and even 100 grain rounds show faster yaw in ballistic gel and much more dramatic fragmentation than M855. Some 75gr open-tip (i.e., JHP) match bullets have performed very well in law enforcement use over the past 5 years or so. Additionally, 77gr open tip match bullets seem to be performing very well for the US military in combat operations since September 11th. Also showing great promise is the 87 gr P.R.L. match round.

77grain Match King Open Tip in calibrated ballistic gelatin. Note the long neck prior to tumbling, however.

100 grain Black Hills in calibrated ballistic gelatin. Note the amazingly short neck before

tumbling (1 inch) and the dramatic fragmentation along with almost 13" of penetration.

Some of these heavier bullets, probably because of their length, maintain their fragmentation down to below 2100 fps and as a result have a much longer range of fragmentation, out to as far as 300 yards.

The flip side is that these heavier bullets will require at least 1 in 7" twists for proper stability, are more expensive than 55 gr. FMJ, and some types aren't widely available as of this writing.

Some of the heavier bullets can offer superior performance, but at an increased cost. In the meantime M193 is probably still your best bet for bulk defensive ammo. Do take note: this does not mean that all heavy rounds are good terminal performers. Bullet construction is far more important than pure weight or velocity.

Perhaps most promising, however, is the 77 grain Nosler NATO loading from Black Hills. (Not to be confused with the 77 grain Sierra Match King which has a longer neck). This particular round has a very short neck, high fragmentation and wonderful muzzle velocity."

Geoff M
WI, USA - Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 16:06:12 (ZULU)

5.56 NATO ammo country:

Geoff - this projectile?

NCC2277 NOSLER CUSTOM COMPETITION 224 77GR HPBT

Also sold as

NCC2277B NOSLER CUSTOM COMP 224 77GR HPBT 250PK

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 17:22:24 (ZULU)

InSain: Sorry to hear the bad news. That's pretty rough, my sympathies are with you and your family.

Lito': Good luck over the next 4+ weeks.

Duman
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 20:48:01 (ZULU)

Thanks guys.

Active shooter training today and tamale.

Fun stuff.

Oughta have to pay to work here.

brian k. sain
Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 23:05:14 (ZULU)

Duman...

No one know when it will be now - it was (after 4 fuckin' years) supposed to be over 11 days ago, and now there is no court trial date - "Maybe the end of March or mid April"

Ruggus Rattus is 16 on Feb 15th - we got the forms for Emancipation, and we're gonna file them - I don't know if they will hear it, since there is an on going action, but we will give it a shot.

Next Tuesday, I meet with the US Attorney General, and the FBI... and they ain't even lookin' for me ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, January 22, 2008, at 23:41:08 (ZULU)

Damn, guys, I think JD is simply stating what he has been led to believe, and is seeking further knowledge. It's not like he picked the screen name, "Range master", then told everyone they were full of shit!

JD,

Welcome. They give everyone with a different view a blanket party, at first. I've learned an awful lot here, though. (P.S.~ Don't mention cutting the macrame class at your local school, in favor of teaching actual skills. They get pissy!)

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 00:36:36 (ZULU)

Pablo: As I remember it, the "yaw" theory was old news by the end of the Johnson administration. If you think that dates me, check this out: I have twice called the Packers' QB "Bart Star".

Travis: That particular dust-up was more about Mozart and Manet than macrame'.

CDC'
Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 02:57:33 (ZULU)

Subject: 40X's
I was recently at a gun show where a guy had 3 - 40X Remingtons in 7.62 NATO. All wood stocks, heavy barrels, none with optics, but all in excellent condition on the outside. One was priced at $1800, the other two weren't priced.

I understand barrel wear and that providing you've got a good receiver you can always get a new barrel. You could also then get a custom stock. But what things might be wrong with the receiver and are there any that aren't repairable?

Typically if it's been well taken care of on the outside ... there's a higher probability that it's been taken care of all the way round.

I may not see this opportunity again, but I wanted to know what some of your thoughts were on subject.

RCJ
Iowa, USA - Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 03:28:48 (ZULU)

Hello Fella's, Thanks for all the great info and links for the .50 stuff. I'm looking into building my own action if I can't find one on it's own. The AR50 looks very interesting though. I've been studying various manufacturers and investigateing gunsmithing literature on this subject. I believe I can do everything on the mill I have in my basement. I just think it would be fun to build a rifle and then be able to shoot it.

As for the comments on projectiles tumbleing and fragmenting and causing more damage to the ENEMY.......isn't that the basic idea of small arms warfare.....kill the enemy. I guess we could just walk up and bitch slap their ass to the dirt. Cheers

PS: BKS, my deepest condolences on your Mom.

George Daly
Dickson, TN., U.S. of A. Gods Country - Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 05:58:09 (ZULU)

RJC...

40XBs... "You rang" ;))

I have 7 of them in various flavors - two in 7.62/308.

If they haven't been beat up on the outside, then they are going to be good... there is nothing on the inside that can get broke.

The 308 barrels last forever, and rarely does anyone come close to shooting out a 308.

Rem will rebarrel one with an excellent barrel for about $420, including shipping, and the barrels are excellent.

If you like one, get it.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 13:44:22 (ZULU)

Hawgs,

This might be of interest:

http://our.marines.com/cms_content/showblogvideo/rel_id/169/id/870

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 14:56:39 (ZULU)

Brian K. Sain,

My deepest condolences on the loss of your mother. You and your family will be in my prayers. Be careful and be safe for your retirement.

Murph

John Murphy
KUWAIT - Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 15:14:33 (ZULU)

re: 40XB's:

If you a looking for a collectable, fill your boots.

If you are looking for a "donor action" for a project rifle, there are less expensive than $1800 starting points.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 16:41:40 (ZULU)

Gotta share this. I'm wondering if they have a LE model for Hostage Rescue.

Link or click my name

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XSKy3PbddZk

S/F

Finger

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 16:46:57 (ZULU)

Gents: Blake has begun his grand adventure. He left for MEPS an hour ago, and will fly to Benning in the morning. He is as prepared as any kid ever who went:)) It seems Dad was not so prepared...his future was always "the future"--I knew it was coming someday---but this hit me like stepping off a curb in the path of a truck I never saw coming:)))

He got his "task list" done fast--so he will have E2 from the get-go. E3 (PFC) was an "almost" with three referrals that did not quite make it in time for his promotion. So instead, he will likely get 4 grand for those. That sounds like an easy part time job---refer kids thru the smart program and collect 2K when they graduate basic. Not bad...though the promotion head-start would be more lucrative over time for him! Still, that is one more stripe than i had in the beginning:)) And he knows that too! Heheh.

Joe M
Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 18:34:24 (ZULU)

Joe M.,

Congratulations Dad! I know he'll make you proud. Let me know if he ever gets to Lost In The Woods.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 18:44:17 (ZULU)

JD, all spitzer shaped bullets will yaw upon impact with tissue. Some will fragment if the tipping force is greater then the strength of the projo. Almost all will wind up traveling base 1st eventually, unless there is some sort of low density material(plastic, aluminum, wood) in the base or high density in the tip (W or DU), altering the Center of Mass.

Hydraulics has nothing to do with this, except in the manufacture of said projectiles.

The Nosler OTM's are GTG, I've used them for punching paper, work as well as anything else, and were cheaper at the time. They were slightly better than SMK's vs people, probably due to the J4 jackets being used; this jacket is significantly thinner than the SMK jacket. I run Hornady 75's, or 80's per choice, but it's going to be minimal difference IRL. Lot and gun variations will damp out ammo design variances, I'm fairly certain. In fact, during DoD ammunition testing, it was determined that 5.56 ammunition had the greatest variability of any caliber tested due to Angle of Attack issues (bullet impact off long axis) This ATB the reason that some folks have had good results with 5.56 and some have been grossly disappointed. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 19:24:02 (ZULU)

"Hydraulics has nothing to do with this, except in the manufacture of said projectiles."

LMOA.

Thanks, Doc---Blake will probably not see LW, and I only did due to an unfortunate choice by an obscure LTC that stuck me in the Corps of Engineers outta OCS. Blake will probably get to SF someday and just stay there happy as a clam. Come to think of it, that was my plan too....until Blake came along:))

Joe M
Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 20:52:12 (ZULU)

BKS-condolences.

JoeM- congrates on Blake. Now on diesel fuel additives for cold weather.....Go look for CRC Fuel Therapy (nee Siloo Fuel Treatment) and apply as directed. We used this stuff way back when in arctic conditions and it works wonders. We had #2 diesel that you could lift out of the tanks with a knife blade-looked like peanut butter before treatment.

The Lucas stuff does work, but doesn't contain anti-gel. It will do the trick to increase the lubricating qualities of the new ultra low sulfer diesel fuel. May be a no-no if you have a 2007 truck or newer.

Bio-diesel: if your truck was made before 1996 DO NOT USE THE STUFF! Unless you want to replace all the o-rings and hoses in your fuel system. (At least according to the truckers magazine in depth article.) Check the engine manufacturer for what they'll allow and be suspicious at the pump. The local purveyor has 20% veggie oil in his, which mix is really limited in application.

Newbies- not so much on this board, but on others I note a depressing tendency of people to: 1. Not read the manual that came with a product. 1A. Not consult the manufacturer of said product. 2. Not read the relevent literature in a field. 3. Irrespective of 1 & 2, be willing to accept the authority of whoever chances to answer their question(s) on the internet.

WR Moore
Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 21:24:18 (ZULU)

Ken M:

If you were picking a .224 projectile for bulk handloading for reasonable accuracy and terminal performance beyond (say) 200M, what would be your choice?

I can get Hornady easily, Nosler match only with great difficulty.

Thanks

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, January 23, 2008, at 23:24:19 (ZULU)

Rod, get a bulk drop shipment of Hornady 75's and don't look back. That's what I do. Err, did. Sitting on about 15k of them, figure that's enough for right now. And 3k of 80gn mag-length OTM's too. Just bought 2k 115gn OTM's and 6.8 SPC R/P brass for my next project, which I intend to discuss in depth at SHOT with the principles. I should probably stock up on bullets, 2 K brass will last a little bit.

We run Power Systems "Diesel 9-1-1" in our trucks, it works as well as anything. Saw an interesting test with untreated ULSD where 50:1 mix with soy biodiesel provided the absolute best lubricity #'s by far. It wasn't even close to the next best additive. 540 is the USG accepted standard(microns wear on the test rig) to avoid fuel pump wear, untreated ULSD is 650 IIRC. Most fuel treatments were right about the same as properly mixed pump ULSD, with a few additives actually increasing friction. I'll see if I can find the test results online. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 02:01:18 (ZULU)

http://www.rocketcityrockcrawlers.com/bigred/Diesel_Fuel_Lubricity_Study/Diesel_Fuel_Lubricity_Study.pdf

Gotta change my numbers, but here's the study. Must be getting old;) S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 02:06:23 (ZULU)

Ken:

Sorry to be a pest, Hornady makes more than one naked 75g .224 projectile (no moly). Which is your recommendation?

Thanks

# 2279 .224 22 CAL 75 GR BTHP MATCH (no plastic tip - BC =.395)

# 22792 .224 22 CAL 75 GR A-MAX (plastic tip - BC=.435)

The suggested retail of the plastic tip A-MAX version is slightly more expensive (no surprise there). I would speculate that the no plastic tip version is what would appear in US military issue ammunition. (Cost and Hague convention voluntary compliance.)

One of my Canadian sources lists 600-piece packaging for the two variants.

As a resident of Canada, trans-border drop shipments of projectiles are not easily arranged, since US law requires export permits for such things (ITAR rules). Fortunately, there are Canadian retailers handling Hornady reloading components.

Hornady's web page (in a similar vein) says:

"Unfortunately, we cannot currently accept international orders for ammunition and components."

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 02:51:42 (ZULU)

WRMoore: Number 3 on your list, substitute "sergeants" for the internet, and you have my wide-ranging urban-legend knowledge base. It takes decades to sort the wheat from the chaffe. Yeah, you get much great learning from the NCO corps, but little tidbits get tossed in randomly. In Ft Hood, an old Alabaman' NCO taught us that "boolits climb above LOS" when he explained hold overs and unders with a given zero...mad sense to no-nuthin' PV1 Joe M until another NCO beat that one outta me:)) I have a decent memory; not photographic, but darn real lookin' crayon drawing-memory, and these things stayed with me til public embarrasment corrected them....I still wonder what I still have stored in my head that is pure BS.

The good part is I got used to being "set right" at a young age--so I am conditoned to accept new data and viewpoints when the facts dictate. Helps me to avoid "crusty old bastard" status:))

COOOOOOLD-D-D-D-D....I forgot about the suck of minus 20 and below without windchill--which only makes the suck even worse. Tossing hay was a real pleasure tonight, as was running hose and watering the troughs (freakin' great heaters in them things). I brought in two weeks worth of oak--but figured it oughta get me three days the way i am burning it now---BIG fires in the stove:)) The good news is that it will be 40 degrees warmer in two days:) Ha.

Joe M
Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 03:09:45 (ZULU)

I run the Lucas stuff for the lubrication and added MPG in my truck, It doesn't get cold enough to gel diesel here anyways. It has been helping. I used a bottle of that 911 stuff last week to clean out the system and haven't had any noticable differences, but the truck was running fine before I used it anyway. I figured it couldn't hurt. I may find out different when I read Ken's link. There's a lot of stuff out there on the market, and it's growing faster and faster every day with the high sales of diesels. I just wish the price of fuel would go back down to where it was when I bought the truck in the first place. It used to be lower than regular unleaded, now it's a dime higher than premium around here. I started buying fuel at the local Co-op and didn't notice the sign till after I'd been running it for a couple months. It's Bio! And it's funny that after runnung it about the first month, before noticing the sign, I had to replace the fuel filters and rubber O-rings. The one on the top had started leaking when it was running and under pressure. After I noticed the sign I started bying from Wal-Mart. There's may be a mix also, but I haven't seen a sign about it. What's bad about the whole situation is that I make my living off farmers that are planting soy beans and corn for fuel. Before this whole deal started 95% of my flying was over cotton. Now it's almost the opposite. what's really different is that around here the acres being planted in one crop or another havent changed but maybe 15-20 percent. The reason for the change is that the prices are just so high for beans and corn that the farmers can now afford to pay for it to get sprayed. It's a good thing that you cna't drive a spray rig over corn or I wouldn't get that business. This year with the drought, 90% of my flying was over corn. No one sprayed anything after the drought started. I thought the corn deal would be a bonus, instead it was almost all I got. Thank god that a lot of farmers have put in pivot irrigation systems or I wouldn't have done that either. I'd be driving a BIG diesel right now to earn a living. I may do it next winter anyway. This is the first winter since I got married and the wife doesn't know what to do with me at home all the time.

Since this is Sniper Country,,,,I like guns. I like sniper rifles mostly, but I like almost all gun's in general. "Just something to be on topic"

Edited to add

Ken thanks, I read the link. I may have to switch additives. The only problem is Schaeffer and Power Service are the only two I recall seeing around here, but then I haven't been looking either. Mine has been helping in the milage department, but I'd like to use something that helps with lubrication also. I guess I should be happy that Lucas was only in the insignifficant range and not down with Marvel Mystery Oil, which we've been using for years in the radial engines on our planes. They were designed to run on 80 octaine leaded which is no longer available, so the boss thinks he's fixing our 89 octaine pump gas with it. The boss swears by it, and they're his planes. It's a Mystery to me. I'll be looking for some of the Opti-Lube to give a try in my truck.

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 04:06:39 (ZULU)

Rod, it's the OTM (ie BTHP), not the A-max. The A-maxes are similar in profile to the 80 and 90gn SMK's, ie too long to load mag length in 5.56mm. Horn made a small run of 80gn mag length bullets, if your gun likes em, they're just a bit better than 75's, but not enough to worry about. The 600rd boxes are OK if that's all you can get, what I was talking about is a drop shipment, for 75gn OTM's it's like a 5400ct box, 10 box min or something like that, but you'll have to do whatever you can with those Canuckistani laws you have to deal with.

FWIW, the 75gn A-max makes a dandy long range coyote load in 22-250 with at least a 1:9 twist. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 04:55:03 (ZULU)

Diesel Country,

Take the time and read the directions/application on ANY of the additives.Some are anti-gel and some are used once it has been gelled.There is a differance.

Had alot of service calls where guys put the stuff in,but didnt use enough,The really smart O/O's and drivers dont shut them off.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 05:06:28 (ZULU)

Ken:

Thanks for the product ID.

Actually, it's *US* export law that is the problem, not Canadian law.

Ironic, eh?

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 05:47:02 (ZULU)

Aha. It figures. Those bastards ;) S/F...Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 06:35:03 (ZULU)

A happy ending ?

What was lost has now been found ! LOL

Wayne,NJ Police Submachinegun found in box on top

of car in station parking lot.

Returned by person or persons unknown.

BATF dogs called off !

Regards,

Joisey

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, Us of A - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 10:55:07 (ZULU)

Joe M.

PM inbound

Morgue

Mourge
Overseas, - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 12:16:17 (ZULU)

A friend of the family is bringing over his new rifle. He wants to know a few things and wants to be pointed in the right direction in others. He has a Burris Laser Rangefinding scope (click my name). I've never used one or even seen one.

Any information you gentlemen have would be of help.

Are you out there Catshooter?

CDC'
Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 14:47:15 (ZULU)

BKS, sorry to hear that man. My prayers are with you.

Folks I hope to see some of you at Shot Show. I will be at US Tactical Supply Booth

Few new things for snipers to show.

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 16:21:47 (ZULU)

CDC...

Yup - I are out there ;))

Those laser scopes are "OK", but loose a lot both in laser and optical performance.

THere is a beam spliter that takes 50% of the light of the image, and sends it to the IR sensor.

So while Nikon and Zeiss argue about who has 97% transmission and 98% transmission, the Burris laser scope has a total of 45 to 46% transmission. (and you know what Martha would say about THAT!!!)

The other problem is that consumer lasers are limited (by law) in the maximum power they can send out in a pulse.

So the battle between Leica and Bushnell is to come up with better receivers and pulse detectors - meaning that since you can only send out ~1 to 2 milliwatts, you gotta catch all you can, and use it the best as you can... and Burris blows off 50% of the received infrared with the same beam splitter.

The 800 yds is off the side of a white house or barn, and the 500 yds is off a deer or elk... BEST CONDITIONS!!

Those scopes are meant for guys that are shooting big game at 500 yds or less.

No 'yotes, Wolves, or PDs.

So that's the down side of it.

The up side is that they are convenient.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 16:47:01 (ZULU)

KenM- thanks for the article. Will have to change my shopping habits-at least with respect to Lucas. Since the CRC Fuel Therapy I'm buying has a warning about "Don't use this in 2007 compliant vehicles!" I expect that it provides lubricity.

WR Moore
Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 17:03:11 (ZULU)

That laser scope could improve your deer hunting efficiency if you have your drop table memorized but aren't good at guesstimating range by eye. Although, the deer I shot this year was taken at twilight, the one last year at first light.....probably wouldn't have been able to take either shot if the light transmission to the eye is half that of a normal scope.

Hey Joe, you out there? You'll like this.

A couple days ago, I was chugging along the track at work in Walworth County WI, kicked up what I thought was a large coyote (I only saw the ass end right in front of the locomotive for a second and could really just make out the color of it's coat). I had thought it ran off the other side, then a couple hundred feet later it shot out on my side and went across a snow covered farm field at warp speed. It was 3am and pretty dark, but my mind went -

- Usually only feral cats and deer are stupid enough to try and outrun the train for hundreds of feet.....

- Damn that's a chunky coyote....

- That thing doesn't have a snout, it's head is round....

- coyotes don't run like that

Then this article came out in the paper today.

http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=1/24/2008&id=34556

An excerpt:

Cougar may have been spotted in Rock Co.

State wildlife personnel are investigating reports of a cougar sighting last week near Milton in Rock County.

A trapper told the Department of Natural Resources that he saw a cougar in a barn. The DNR said that it has received "several reports" of cougar sightings in northeastern Rock County and adjacent Walworth County.

Also, DNR personnel have taken photos of footprints and the stride pattern of the animal. The photos were emailed to western cougar experts who say the tracks are consistent with a female or young male cougar, said Adrian Wydeven, a wildlife ecologist with the DNR.

Blood and urine samples were taken by the DNR and have been sent to a laboratory in Montana for DNA analysis. Results will not be known for several weeks, Wydeven said.

If the reports are true, the presence of a cougar would be historic. The last known presence of cougars, or mountain lions, in the wild in Wisconsin took place in the early 20th century.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 18:37:58 (ZULU)

Geoff: DNR still thinks the world is flat. They have maps on their table that prove it, too. Dumbasses. The first time I saw a cat, I duly reported it. Insulting is a kind way to describe their response. So, my subsequent sightings get reported here. Heheh; I realized that if they officially do not exist, then they can't be dead when I kill the bastard either:)) And the imaginary skin on my wall won't raise any alarms either.

I am using 9-1-1 now since that is the only decent product available at the corner market (closest place around). It works great. Today was the real test. I have no doubt that I would not have started that truck, plugged in or not, without that stuff in the tank.

Crap...time to go feed the hayburners (brrrrrrrr). My wife abdicated all her horse chores and left me stuck. WTF? Anyone wanna buy a herd? I'll deliver:))

Joe M
Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 23:11:16 (ZULU)

Joe:

What are the hunting license rules for such imaginary animals in your state? :-)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, January 24, 2008, at 23:51:25 (ZULU)

Rod: Use your imagination, dude! heheh. Oh, and it is the same thing for wolves south of a road (that is north of me). Just bigger yotes, for all DNR cares.

Joe M
Friday, January 25, 2008, at 00:19:56 (ZULU)

Joe and Rod If the official position is like that of Tennessee, Joe's right, shoot all you want. You can't be charged for shooting something that doesn't exist. Their "on the record" stance is that any cougar type cat seen in the wild in Tennessee, is one that has escaped form it's owner's cage. Because of that, we have the go ahead to shoot them. Even though they are on the endangered species list or whatever. The federal game wardens also say that they don't exist. But don't shoot them because they're extinct in this area. One agency says shoot it and the other arrests you for it. My personal stance, shoot and say nothing. Tan the hide yourself because if the word doesn't get around from the taxidermist, it will form the place they send hides to get them tanned.

What's the general consensus here on NEAR Mfg bases and rings. If you haven't heard of them, then take a look. From my dealings with them so far, they have a really good customer service attitude.

www.nearmfg.com/index.html

I ended up using Badger Ordnance on the 308, but before that I had ordered one from Near and canceled it. It got sent out before the word got to them to cancel it. When it got here I called for return instructions, the guy told me to make sure and take a look before sending it back. I gotta tell you, it's one NICE piece of metal. If you've got a nice blued or stainless gun that you don't want the regular dull black oxide on, this is the way to go. It's just down right pretty. I'm going to change the mounting on the 300RUM this summer, and unless someone knows something I haven't heard, it'll be to a Near Mfg in matte stainless. I'll have to strip the gun back to origional stainless too.

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Friday, January 25, 2008, at 02:42:48 (ZULU)

Jeff,

Don't go to all the trouble of stripping that rifle. Just buy a new one to match the rings. Lots less work.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Friday, January 25, 2008, at 05:10:40 (ZULU)

Gents,

I have an Old Enfield 1917 in 30-06 that has been pretty beat up over time. At some point someone sporterized it and glass bedded the barrel into the stock. I was reading on another website about someone re barreling an -06 over into a 338-06. needless to say It caught my interest. I don't mind having an -06 around but getting another rifle into the 338 caliber would consolidate the different rounds I would be reloading for as I already have a TRG in 338 LM.

My cousin and I were talking and he became interested in doing the same thing. He has a Savage in -06 and wouldn't be apposed to getting it re barreled but he is also thinking about picking up a 1917 and doing the conversion. He is a little concerned about if it will deal with the pressure.

Do you think that either receiver would have an issue handling the pressures or is it down to which ever one is prefered?

back to lurking...

Morgue

Joe-

doesn't sound like a bad idea to get out and say hello that big ol' kitty...

Mourge
Overseas, - Friday, January 25, 2008, at 05:52:17 (ZULU)

1917 actions are the basis for alot of magnum safari rifles due to their strength and ability to fit a magnum length magazine box. They're plenty strong enough. Biggest issue is grinding those stupid sight ears off. The 1917 rifle was sold as the Rem Model 30 IIRC. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Friday, January 25, 2008, at 06:51:55 (ZULU)

Thanks Ken,

I didn't think it would be an issue but when my cousin asked me I figured i wouldn't Bull$h1t him and i would get a solid answer for him.

Thanks again bro,

Morgue

Mourge
Overseas, - Friday, January 25, 2008, at 07:02:47 (ZULU)

Next time I am down at the farm I'll be sure to keep an eye open.I hunt Coyote,Small Game and Goose as well as Bow Hunt Deer in Walworth County.Wisconsin has had Cougar for at least 10 years that I know of.We were first seeing them over by the Wi/Mi border,at my aunts place just west of Iron Mountain.They live about 3 miles from the river/border there on the Wi side.

The first time I seen one south of Hwy 8 was last year,over by Mauston.The DNR refuses to believe we have them.Wi's DNR is alot of fun to deal with and only seems to understand repesentation from Frankiln,Grant and Assoc's. I trust Wi's DNR as far as I can throw a Peterbilt.3 words to live by Shoot,Shovel,Silence.... aka the 3 S's.I wouldnt even bother trying to self tan one as I got too many kids and neighbors around trying to get into my business.

I got home tonight from work,First night at the new job,walked into the house and her .380 is laying on her desk.Asked whats up and she tells me someone tried gettin in while she was home alone,She heard the outer screen open,then a key enter the deadbolt and jiggling to pick the lock.She went and grabbed her .380 and used the upper level switch to turn on the porch light.Whoever it was took off,and she then called the Cudahy PD.They responded really quick even tho she didnt dial 911.Cop saw the Browning on the desk and asked if it was loaded and she replied it was.As he is looking around the place my desked got bumped and my pc screen lit up w/ the AR10 wallpaper.He sees this,the dead animals on the walls and tells her....."Just make sure they fall inside the doorframe."

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Friday, January 25, 2008, at 07:18:16 (ZULU)

Pablo: The guy used the Burris scope with the laser rangefinder to range some horses that were standing on a snow-covered hill behind my house. They were only 480 yards away but my LRF 1200 couldn't do it.

CDC'
Friday, January 25, 2008, at 08:59:35 (ZULU)

CDC...

Hmmm - that's odd. Would your Leica 1200 (I assume it's a Leica) range the snow at 480?

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, January 25, 2008, at 09:56:35 (ZULU)

Pablo: The Leica wouldn't range the snow. The horses were standing on a fairly level spot so the angle where the laser intersected the mountain was - I would guesstimate - 10 to 15 degrees. The day was clear and sunny. The lenses are clean.

The battery should be fairly new. Could that be a factor?

CDC'
Friday, January 25, 2008, at 10:11:20 (ZULU)

Morgue,

An easier conversion, unless you "need" .338 Lap, is .300 Win. mag. A tool & die maker friend went that route using the factory barrel and then gave me the reamer. He says opening up the bolt face is relatively simple. YMMV.

My puppy is 3 months old today and weighs in at 36.5 lbs. I think she's gonna be a monster!

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The chilly Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, January 25, 2008, at 15:36:05 (ZULU)

jc I am buying a new shooter, to match another set of rings and a base...After seeing the price for the Erma SR100, ti's going to be a Sako TRG42 with probably a Schmit and Bender of some high magnification. I won't want to paint it, so it'll need some pretty rings and a base. I'll have to question Morgue as to who all makes bases for them, but I know Near does, along with sloped bases in MOA's from flat to 65MOA. They also make bases for rifles other than Remington, Winchester, and Sako, such as Browning, Weatherby, Savage FN Browning, Parker and Hale, and Tika. IMHO, They seem to have more of the manufacturers covered than their competition. I'm telling you their work stuff just looks good. I haven't seen a gun part or accessory in a long time that I just thought "man this is nice". By the way, I'll probably see you Monday if the weather's shootable, and the invite is still open. I'll have to join this spring when I start flying and have some spare cash. The guys you shoot with seem to be nice enough company to want to shoot with also. The place and people have changed for the better since I let my membership go, back before 2000.

Dang Doc that's bigger than my full grown female pitt.

Jeff Coper
Gadsden, TN, - Friday, January 25, 2008, at 15:53:43 (ZULU)

Doc,

I was actually thinking about making a 338-06 and just rebarreling the action. I was reading that its a pretty decent set up and it keeps things down to 1 primary bullet which means I can buy bulk 250 grain bullets for both the LM and the -06...

I have to do something to the 1917 I have, who ever bedded it bedded the barrel INTO the stock... so my options are pretty limited, either leave it alone or do some serious work on it.

Anyone gone down this road before have any suggestions on whether this is plausible or something to wave off and pop smoke on...

Morgue

Joe m. PK inbound

Mourge
Overseas, - Friday, January 25, 2008, at 15:54:56 (ZULU)

Opening an '06 bolt face for a Magnum case head is easy if you've got the proper lathe bit. Opening the magzine rails isn't quite as easy, especially making sure the rounds feed properly. Unless you really want a single shot.

BTW, getting the barrels off old military actions can be real fun. I dimly recall the some of them had the barrel shank dipped into what amounts to tar before being screwed in. If you're not worried about re-use of the barrel as-is, chuck the barreled action up in the lathe and take a cut just ahead of the action about 0.030" deep. This will pretty much eliminate any crush tension on the threads and make things much easier.

The .338-06 is a pretty good hunting round. Don't know that I'd use match bullets for plugging critters.

JoeM- don't need more horses, but if you get rid of them, give me a call about any hay you have left:))))))

WR Moore
Friday, January 25, 2008, at 16:23:48 (ZULU)

Guys blind dummies get lucky once in awhile. This was posted on Longrange.com

"Greetings,

For those who don’t know, F-T/R (or F-Restricted) has finally gained acceptance for the upcoming F-Class World Championships to be held in Bisley, England in July 2009.

To take advantage of this breakthrough, the United States has formed a national F-T/R Team. We formed back in September during the 2007 F-Class National Championships. After a lengthy selection process, the team roster was filled. The members were picked with the goal of having the very best “team oriented” F-T/R shooters that would be able to travel to the FCWC.

The US F-T/R Team:

Darrell Buell (Captain)

Brad Sauve

Monte Milanuk

Mike Miller

Dale Carpenter

John Weil

Paul Phillips

Stan Pate

A1 Jeff Rorer

A2 Warren Dean

F-T/R Team Adjutant Kathy Buell

Congratulations to all! The selection process was difficult indeed!

We have an eight man team to travel to FCWC in 2009, while there, shooting in the individual matches, the coach will pick the best four (best of the best) to represent the USA in the four man International Team Championships. We have also chosen two alternates that can step right up in case something happens that will prevent one of the eight from traveling.

Taking a team to England will not be an inexpensive proposition. We are going to be looking for corporate sponsorship to help make this trip easier on the shooters. To that end, we have designed a website to let people get some more details about the team. (www.usftrclass.com) Anyone interested in sponsoring the team, contact me at darrell.buell@usftrclass.com.

Good Shooting,

Darrell Buell "

Now the team could use everyones help.

On support. We are fund raising as a team and I will take you all up on that offer real soon. The place to send funds is

F/TR Team Donations/PALMA Promotions, Inc.

care of

Darrell Buell, Team Captain

Mailing Address: P.O. Box 611, Boring, OR 97009

Email: mailto:darrell.buell@usftrclass.com

The reason for the long address is Palma Promotions collects for several teams and best our Captain gives them a packet of donations so we get credit for them.

Thanks Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Friday, January 25, 2008, at 17:28:31 (ZULU)

Undude: That sounds like a blast. Better get some big-gun (hey a pun) (oh shit, a rhyme)---corporate sponsors: The dollar pound exchange rate is sucking right now--and with the 3/4 point "emergency" drop in prime rates, expect it to be worse yet.

Hey, being an anti-rem guy with two remmies somehow in my safes (or is there another?)---I was wondering what differences there are between the model seven and the 700 actions? I was looking for "on topic" differences, if any--not the factory quotes.

In other words, is a 7 action worth dumping a several hundred into, or should i just go get an ADL for a mid-weight barreled 260 project in either a BC or HS stock?

Joe M
Friday, January 25, 2008, at 17:53:47 (ZULU)

Well, it seems the 'end of times' is near.

Sadly, it appears not too long from now I'm going to clean up my 'in use' M14, oil it heavily, and relegate it to deep storage. Not that it's going anywhere, the way I look at it, my son is next in line for the tradition. Dad recounted the day they took his Garand away and handed him that 'new fangled' M14 - that model been a fixture in the family line ever since. That tradition will continue - but my boy isn't old enough to use it now.

Unfortunately, I've just just about proven to myself that my eyes no longer focus the way they ought to, and iron sights are essentially an undue limitation on my capabilities. I'll grasp at straws for a few more months I'm sure, before coming to any permanent conclusion that there's nothing more for me to do or not. Still, little optimism is left.

Learn from this though! Practice on low-contrast or camoflaged targets! I still can wing rounds into high-contrast targets pretty well at range, it's the low contrast / camo'd man-sized targets past 300 that give me fits. Since I'm not into iron sights for target shooting, that means the best I can do against someone not wearing contrasting colored clothing is 400 yards on a good day..... that's a waste of 308 ammo.

So now I'm in the market for optics. What I think I'd like to experiment with is something akin to an Aimpoint, but with a lit reticle with intensity I can set, instead of just a dot. Something that has a variable magnification in the 1 to 4 range would be great I think, 1 to 6 would be ideal. Obviously most of the time it'd be set on 1 and left alone. If the reticle could be dimmed to the point it'd work with NVDs, that's be 'most excellent'. I don't care about windage adjustments, 'cause those are going to be 'set it and forget it' for this application, but a low style elevation turret that goes 1 revolution or less from 100 to 800 yards would be GREAT.

Is there such a thing out on the market? If so, I'd surely appreciate the info! Especially before SHOT, so I can check out the item 'hands-on'.

For what it's worth, I ran the same course of fire with my iron sighted '14 and the Aimpoint scoped XCR. My XCR score was 36/250 points higher. Gotta be the eyes.......

Great to hear about the trip Mike! Hope to see you and Ken both out at the SHOT show!

Insain, hope to see you there too, and my condolences on your Mom.

Bravo
Friday, January 25, 2008, at 19:23:26 (ZULU)

Bravo - that sounds like the S&B short dot. I've never actually shot one.

medicjim
Friday, January 25, 2008, at 19:53:18 (ZULU)

Bravo - I've been a member of the no-iron's club for a couple of years. I can actually do all right with them in any position except prone. In prone, I have to look through the top of my glasses where the prescription is for distance, and I can't focus on the front site. Frustrating.

The S&B Short Dot is very good - but pricey. Consider as an option something like the Leupold 3.5-10X40M3 on a fighting rifle - with a miniature Docter red-dot optic mounted on the scope tube or a ring top for very close-range use. It's a combination that works very well. It's seen a lot on 3-gun rigs - but I also know some VERY high-speed low-drag guys who use it on SPRs to very good effect.

Getting old sucks. Improvise, adapt, overcome.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Friday, January 25, 2008, at 22:05:49 (ZULU)

low-power optics country:

I know it's not high-speed, low drag, but I'm still pretty happy running a Leupold 2-7 on my AR15-pattern rifle.

Good FOV for close, but extra magnification for longer distances.

You can get them in various thickness reticles, so there are all sorts of options.

I've worn glasses since my teens, and had presbyopia since around 42. Iron sights on long guns have not been my friend for a long time.

There is a forward-mountd barrel-clamp mount for the M1/M14 mount available thru ODCMP and others that is favourably reviewed that you might want to consider for your M1A.

I set up a Garand with a Medesa Scout mount. Springfield Armory subsequently came out with a clone on their M1A pattern,

but the other mount design doesn't need any permanent alterations to the metal, so that would be my choice today.

I'm tempted to go thru the annoyance of getting one from the US (ITAR *US* export rule issues) just to have onhand agains possible future need.

http://estore.odcmp.com/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=product&ID=830&item=&sfv=&cat=EQA&desc=&udc=&mct=&vndr=&ba=&pmin=&pmax=&note1=&note2=&note3=&note4

Item ID: 830

Description: Scope Mount, M1 Garand

Made in the USA - $109.95 each

This new model fits all standard mil-spec barreled rifles,

including "Tanker" version & has the same great features as

the proven Mini-Scout-Mount for Ruger, Mini-14 and Mini-30.

Bolts on in minutes with NO permanent modifications req

Fill-length sight base accepts all modern sight systems

Made of precision extruded & machined alum alloy & s/s

Flat non-reflective, hard anodized finish

Does not interfere with OEM sights

Does not obstruct the receiver when loading or ejecting

Remains solidly in place and dissipates heat

$110

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, January 25, 2008, at 23:35:25 (ZULU)

Short Dot:

Pros:

German glass.

#7 reticle is the heat. Post and crosshair until you hit the red dot which shows up in the center. Great safari scope and works well in the hood too.

Nice unobstructed cross hair for if he comes to the door with a hostage and a red dot and true 1X for across the bedroom.

Don't need all that fancy reticle bullshit. Not here anyway.

Choice of first or second focal plane reticles depending upon model.

Versatile.

Cons:

HEAVY

EXPENSIVE

Comments:

Early scopes were clockwise windage (Right is right). New ones are counter clockwise. Friggin' Krauts. WTF over? KISS.

Some of the new scopes got shipped out with the old indicator stickers thereon. I got one (naturally).

I found out the hard way and two trips to the range in the rain (because I ran out of ammo trying to see where the bastard was printing) later ... restrained myself from flipping the Larue's levers and tomahawking the whole f23king thing into the bayou like Mel Gibson in The Patriot.

New sticker on from Deutschland and all is well.

Looks cool. Chicks dig me.

Ohhhh BK ... is THAT your new SHORT DOT?

OUT!

brian k. sain
Friday, January 25, 2008, at 23:46:05 (ZULU)

Now that's an effective long-gun :-)

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2008123224515.asp

Direct Fire Makes a Comeback

by James Dunnigan

January 23, 2008

Israel and the United States have been using artillery for direct fire (shooting at something the gun crew can see, using a sight similar to a sniper scope) more frequently of late. This is often more effective than indirect fire (where the crew calculates where the shell will land when fired at a target they cannot see.) This practice was common during World War II, especially for taking out bunkers, or for fighting in cities. But after World War II, it was discouraged, because it exposed the artillery to more enemy fire. Tanks were seen as more suitable for this kind of work. But the artillery, especially the 155mm howitzers [VIDEO], packed a bigger punch than tank guns. During Vietnam, the U.S. often used self-propelled artillery for direct fire, despite the doctrine that advised otherwise. But many veterans remembered the effectiveness of direct fire from towed and self-propelled artillery.

While the doctrine discouraged direct fire, U.S. artillery was always equipped with a sight for direct fire. This was there for emergencies, when the enemy troops were visible to the gun crews. Eight years ago, a U.S. Army artillery sergeant developed an electronic night sight for his units towed 155mm howitzers. The U.S. Marine Corps frequently used their M198 and M777 towed 155mm howitzers for direct fire, day and night. Army airborne units also use these towed guns. The guns usually hit targets over a thousand meters away, keeping the crews relatively safe from enemy fire.

The increasing use of artillery for direct fire has led to units outside combat zones, training for this. The crews like this. Indirect fire is all work, and never seeing what the shells do. Direct fire provides instant feedback.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, January 26, 2008, at 01:28:45 (ZULU)

Painting your stock

I know this has probably been covered before. I have a Mod. 70 Coyote Lite with the Bell & Carlson stock ( black) I want it in OD Green or something close. Can it be done, and can i do it myself? Does it take special paint?

Gary Kaney
NW, ILL, - Saturday, January 26, 2008, at 02:17:24 (ZULU)

Gary,

There are lots of different schools of thought about painting rifles. One is to use Daracoat, which requires a spray kit but isn't a bad way to go, another method is using bowflag which is easier to strip off than regular paint or what I use both at work and on some of the sticks I have painted as Jeff foxworthy says "Say it with Krylon." Get some rustoleum paint from the local walmart and go to town on things.

Here are a couple I painted a few months ago with rustoleum...

Morgue

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff113/t_mourge/weapons/Painted%20Weapons/SniperRifle4.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff113/t_mourge/weapons/Painted%20Weapons/SniperRifle2.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff113/t_mourge/weapons/Painted%20Weapons/SniperRifle3.jpg

Mourge
Overseas, - Saturday, January 26, 2008, at 02:33:37 (ZULU)

Gary Kaney: Krylon camo in spray cans works fine. Ace Hardware carries it.

CDC'
Saturday, January 26, 2008, at 02:36:28 (ZULU)

Greetings,

BKS: My condolences.

Joe: Good luck to the boy. Happy as a clam in SF. I can think of worse fates.

Painting rifles: Personally, I am a bowflauge man. If you don't like the results, strip if off and try again. Masking tape up the optics, muzzle, the bolt, safety and trigger and have at it. My opinion only.

Near Manufacturing: Have several aquaintances who have their products. No one says anything bad about them. I have been impressed with them.

Pat II
Saturday, January 26, 2008, at 04:09:55 (ZULU)

Jeff,

Weather report looks good for Monday. Come on down.

BKS,

My condolences for your Mother.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Saturday, January 26, 2008, at 07:43:57 (ZULU)

Markwell: I don't have your email address. Thanks again for the housing. It was exactly what I needed.

Gentlemen: Thanks for the response. You guys are the best.

Joe M: Congrats on raising a young man who will stand up. We could use 20 or 30 million more like him.

CDC'
Saturday, January 26, 2008, at 22:38:33 (ZULU)

Morgue;

Several folks on the Savageshooters.com site have installed .338-06 barrels with only a barrel swap being neeeded. This would be an affordable option.

Not sure I would mess with the 1917 unless it has already been altered beyond any collector's value. If the action is intact without any modification you would probably be better off selling it and getting a modern rifle to work with. If it's been messed with you may as well do something with it.

The 1917 actions are strong enough. You may want to have the gunsmith check for cracks at the front of the receiver ring just to be safe though.

For those who didn't know, in USGI configuration the Model of 1917 rifle will hold 6 rounds of .30-06 ammo. This is due to it being a copy-cat of the Pattern '14 Enfield which used the rimmed .303 cartridge.

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, January 27, 2008, at 02:57:50 (ZULU)

Jody,

Yeah if I had to say, there is probably NO collectors value in the rifle what so ever. The Stock was chopped down there is no barrel shroud and they glassed the barrel into the stock. I don't mind having a 30-06 but I would enjoy turning it into a project. It should require just a basic barrel change and some work to put a decent rail on it maybe something with 30 MOA built in and since I already have a 338 I need to load for it gives me a common caliber bullet that I can load for both rounds.

If I had a savage I would go that route, I will let my cousin know that they have the barrel and it should be an easy swap out. He might actually get his done before i do unless he waits.

Gents,

Anyone know a company that makes a good tactical stock for a 1917? I have seen a monte carlo stock for it but I am hoping to find something closer to a choate style...

Thanks

Morgue

Mourge
Overseas, - Sunday, January 27, 2008, at 03:13:53 (ZULU)

Short Dot - ~$2,200 for a 1.1-4x30 scope??!?

That's not "Schmidt and Bender" it's "Shit and Bend Over", regardless of the CDI factor.

Duman
Sunday, January 27, 2008, at 03:21:56 (ZULU)

Nightforce has a small 1-4x24 NXS scope that has adjustable illumination. No idea on the price, but it's gotta be less than an S&B.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Sunday, January 27, 2008, at 05:57:13 (ZULU)

Short optics country:

Nightforce 1-4x24 w/illuminated reticle possible source and pricing: $US1154 from Optics Planet. Same page also lists the Nightforce 2.5-10x24 for $1193

http://www.opticsplanet.net/nightforce-nxs-compact-riflescope.html or click my name

Mfgr page: http://www.nightforceoptics.com/?catid=1&viewitem=150

Uses CR2032 battery. Good choice, one of the best availability lithium coin batteries around. Aimpoint also uses that battery in their newest red-dot sights. Manual claims:

Depending on the intensity and conditions, your battery can last up to 720+ hours of continuous use.

I find it troubling that the initial sales literature doesn't mention the battery detail. I had to locate and examine the user's manual to find out the battery detail. Seems silly since an illuminated reticle needs power from somewhere.

Analysis:

Exit pupil for 10x with a 24mm objective would be too small in subdued lighting. Highest magnification for acceptable scene brightness with a 24mm objective would be around 5X IMHO. That's not a bad trade-off, since under brighter conditions the 10x magnification would be bright enough.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, January 27, 2008, at 11:49:13 (ZULU)

Rod,

Actually you would be suprised at how bright the NFO 2.5-10 is, IMHO it is easily comparable to the 3.5-10 x 30 Leupold if not brighter... I Didn't switch at work because when they brought us the NFO's it was just prior to deployment and There wasn't going to be a good chance to get zero with it.

Morgue

Joe M

PM inbound

Mourge
Herethereandyon, - Sunday, January 27, 2008, at 12:45:08 (ZULU)

Mourge

Nice pictures. I'm going to start that project monday.

Gary Kaney
NW, ILL, - Sunday, January 27, 2008, at 13:12:33 (ZULU)

A while back, one of the Roster Members posted a note about a physical therapy device. Part of the name was 'wheel', as in 'pin-wheel'. Looks kind like a pizza cutter. Could you tell me what the proper name for this device is so I can order one.

Thanks from cold, blustery California.

Trajan

Trajan
East Bay, CA , USA - Sunday, January 27, 2008, at 23:11:29 (ZULU)

Gary,

Something I didn't mention on painting the rifle,1 thing I did for prep was a light base coat of textured paint. This way if you paint it outside like I did, or in a garage with dust and other things in the air you don't have to worry about getting a couple misc bumps marring your paint job. Plus it looks pretty cool when things are all said and done. Just my opinion. take it for what its worth.

Later,

Morgue

Mourge
Overseas, - Monday, January 28, 2008, at 07:31:18 (ZULU)

Just wanted to share with ya'll, GA Precision has a newly updated website. And, seems there's talk about a new action as well. The website isn't finished yet, but it's looking good so far. Definitely some nice rifles there.

BKS, I'm sorry, and you have my prayers!

Joe, congratulations, and be proud. Seems he's turning out ok, eh? Was there ever really any doubt? I can't see it, with you as his dad.

'Lito, don't just back them to the wall, push them through it, and let the cinderblocks crush them when they topple. Stay clear of the overspray, is all.

Everyone else, keep up the dialogue, it's interesting for sure.

God Bless,

Sean T.
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada - Monday, January 28, 2008, at 23:43:58 (ZULU)

CDC, You are quite welcome. We are glad it will serve.

Bravo, Take a look at the Leupold MARK 4 1.5-5x20 MRT with illuminated special purpose reticle. Put one on my Colt 6721 last year after SHOT, in LaRue mount..It's easier on older eyes than the Aimpoint Comp..I like it a lot, but that's me....

outa here

markwell

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Tuesday, January 29, 2008, at 01:40:59 (ZULU)

Sean: There were times I thought I raised a felon-to-be:)) Those damned teen years lived up to the hype-haha! But the cool part was the end-game, those last two years, when all of a sudden, I saw hints of the things I tried to instill in him---things like honesty, integrity, loyalty--he took his time thinking over all that I ever told him...and one day he decided that some of it made sense and he adopted it. Wow. Those bad years, though: I thought I screwed the pooch royally and blew it somehow. Heheh. I am convinced now more than ever that children are part of God's sense of humor. I dare not criticize that sense of humor by saying it is warped....but...

So, I remember NOT calling home while herding thru reception too. Blake's lack of contact, while annoying to me personally--is more a reminder of what an ass I could be too. God again, probably LHAO...

48 degrees today...and now rain. Bottom is supposed to drop out by tomorrow, with snow following the icing of everything. Should be good'n shitty. So much for sighting in.

Sir Wes: haven't forgot you---stand by! I had to focus on a 50th anniversery party, a going-away party, oh hell: Dude I partied and blew you off! Heheh. Expect it around this weekend.

Joe M
Tuesday, January 29, 2008, at 04:13:42 (ZULU)

Guys,

No need to panic about your kid not calling. He's not running away from you, he's running towards the man he's becoming.

When I turned 18, I left home for several years, and only called a few times a year, just to leave a message that I was fine, and what time zone I was in. I just felt that I needed to set my family and all of that scene aside for a while, and do for myself. If I weren't so hard headed, I probably would've eaten better, but the folks seemed to have a new respect for the fact that I was willing to say fuck it, and make do with the shitty end of the stick.

Your boy will be alright. He's just processing it all.

Now, for shooting time! I gotta run and get a few yards of white fleece. We just got more snow, and I think I'll try a WARM ground blind for once. Put my little catalytic heater in a hole under the fleece, and call in some coyotes. And, just for 'lito, try for a kitty or two. Hopefully, the big tan one that KDWP says don't exist won't show up too close. He leaves awful big tracks for an imaginary animal!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, January 29, 2008, at 16:56:23 (ZULU)

Joe M - message through roster mail inbound, no attachments.

medicjim
Tuesday, January 29, 2008, at 18:54:01 (ZULU)

Foxwoods casino in Connecticut on fire - 8th floor. Strange coincidence that there was a major fire in a Las Vegas casino last week?

medicjim
Tuesday, January 29, 2008, at 19:00:29 (ZULU)

Just bought one of those mini-mauser Remington 799's for a lark. Not too bad, about what you'd expect for the price. Action is to be expected for "Made in Serbia" for cheap. It certainly isn't just a scaled down M98, sad to say.

Anyone have heavy bullet loads for 7.62x39? Looking for 180gn round nose, and I may load some gas checked cast soft points to see if I can get expansion at sub sonic velocities. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Tuesday, January 29, 2008, at 20:03:56 (ZULU)

Ken M: I just caught word of those 798 imports. I dunno about new manufacture--but the Yugo's did some things right over the years in terms of workmanship. I'd like to hear how it shoots---since rough exteriors can sometimes hide decent internals:))

MedicJim: replied to yours.

Sir Wes: Blizzard today...mail tomorrow if the roads clean up enough to warrant a trip to town. I like the "town" being a special trip...far enough to limit loitering in the area, near enough to be economical:))

Joe M
Tuesday, January 29, 2008, at 20:57:42 (ZULU)

The question is NOT whether or not I am paranoid, but whether I am paranoid ENOUGH!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Tuesday, January 29, 2008, at 22:08:02 (ZULU)

You guys rock.

Will see some of you at SHOT I am sure.

OUT

brian k. sain
Tuesday, January 29, 2008, at 22:32:23 (ZULU)

>>> The question is NOT whether or not I am paranoid, but whether I am paranoid ENOUGH!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo <<<

Just discovered this is B. S.!!!

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Wednesday, January 30, 2008, at 03:29:21 (ZULU)

I like the part where we go into A'stan in order to run a pipeline.

The Truth is out there.

CDC'
Wednesday, January 30, 2008, at 10:48:43 (ZULU)

Guys,

Any opinions on the Savage Model 10FCPXP package deal?It comes with a Harris bipod, Loopy 3.5-10X40 Mil-dot scope, Farrel Bases, Burris Zee rings, and a Storm case. Stock options are the H-S, MacMillan and wife, or Choate folder. Comes with box mag.

The folder is definitely out. If I got a good enough deal on a 10FP with the folder on it, I'd grab it for a truck gun, but it'd mostly be a novelty.

If I do go ahead and get this, it's because Savage is giving us hunter safety instructors dealer pricing. I'll have to call for pricing, but I figure it'll be cheaper than getting the components seperately.

Edited to add: I can get the package for $1650, but I can only get the package with the MacMillan stock. They pay for shipping. How much would this cost me elsewhere?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, January 30, 2008, at 13:51:14 (ZULU)

Gee, and here I thought we went into Afghanistan to settle an old poker debt between Dick Cheney and Leonid Brezhnev...

Next thing youz guys will tell me is that fire really does melt steel, or that Saddam really did gas kurds with actual NBC agents...or that there was no conspiracy to attack ourselves on 9/11...and Israel wasn't at the root of it all? Arghhhh! All my fantasies are just...just...fantasy? How can this be?

Is there anything factual that I read on my progressive websites???? They told me how smart they are...so much smarter than the rest of us and therefore, as betters, more suited to live my life for me. Gosh...I feel cheated. Now who will make all my tough decisions? Who's going to give me healthcare? Who's going to give me my just share of the evil rich's ill-gotten gains??? Who, I ask?

Personal responsibility??? Say it isn't so!

Heheh...

May as well go clean 3 or 4 rifles. I've become the family gunsmith--and most relatives' malfs are from improper care (like the cleaning patch that renders the remmie gasser inert).

Joe M
Wednesday, January 30, 2008, at 18:16:13 (ZULU)

Travis: A savage can be has for 450, a Mcstock for 4bills, a loopy for 999, a storm for 230, rings and bases for 150, all pretty much shop-around low end retail sale items (estmates, some more, some less): that is 2230 without tax or delivery on multiple shipments. 1600 and change seems like a way to go...

I like savage, though I do not own one. Geoff M has one that is as good where it counts (on the range) as my higher end sticks. I turned into a snob (musta been the commissioning) and drifted to sako for carry rifles:)) And win-based FNs, stealths and customs for LR...but, I would find room in the safe for that particular savage if I was looking for a LR .308 today; it would fit nicely in price with an eye to buying other things.

I learned recently that the SuperSnipper (SWFA) scope has 150MOA of adjustments. damn! I hate to say this, but that trashco dirived scope and the silly adjusting barret base may just be the hot combo for a .50.

For the .50BMG folks:

What scope/ base/ rings do you use? What would use/ change if money fell from the sky?

Joe M
Wednesday, January 30, 2008, at 18:28:57 (ZULU)

Joe,

One of the local stores has one of the Tasco Mil-Dots that's been on the shelf for a coupla years. I keep asking about it, and the other day, the kid told me he couldn't find the box.... $20!

Then some peckerhead handed him the box!

Is the scope on the Model 10 I'm looking at finger adjustable? Decent optics for once is one of my main reasons for looking at this package. I'm too cheap to spend that much. If I do go ahead and buy, it'll be the first NEW gun I've ever owned.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, January 30, 2008, at 20:22:07 (ZULU)

Guys,

Here's somethin' for you sleuthy types:

I'm 30, and my mom finally decided to tell me the name of the guy that's supposedly my father. BUT, she lost track of him in the late 70's. All I have is the Name Henry DeDelva, and his family was from Hollywood.

Being a bastard is one thing, but now she tells me I'm half Californian? That's addin' insult to injury!

Any ideas in how I'd go about tracking this guy down? Knowing her, there are several possible daddies, and she's in ill health, but, for obvious reasons, doesn't want to hand me a list of names.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, January 30, 2008, at 22:31:20 (ZULU)

Travis, Try this site.

http://anywho.com/qry/wp_fap

Regards,

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, US of North Americas - Wednesday, January 30, 2008, at 22:56:21 (ZULU)

Short Love Story

A man and a woman who had never met before, but were both married

to other people, found themselves assigned to the same sleeping

room on a Trans-continental train.

Though initially embarrassed and uneasy over sharing a room, they

were both very tired and fell asleep quickly...

He in the upper bunk and she in the lower.

At 1:00 AM, the man leaned down and gently woke the woman saying,

Ma'am, I'm sorry to bother you, but would you be willing to reach

into the closet to get me a second blanket? I'm awfully cold.'

I have a better idea,' she replied . 'Just for tonight, let's

pretend that we're married.'

Wow! That's a great idea!' he exclaimed.

Good,' she replied. 'Get your own fuckin' blanket.'

After a moment of silence, he farted.

The End

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, US of North Americas - Wednesday, January 30, 2008, at 22:59:55 (ZULU)

Kermit the frog went into a bank. The teller said "Hello, I'm Patty Black. May I help you?" to which Kermit replied "Hi Ho, Patty Black, Kermit the frog here. I'd like a loan because, well I really need the money."

Patty said "Well, Mr Frog, do you have anything to offer the bank as colateral?" "Not really" replied Kermit, "All I have is this figurine of Miss Piggy." Patty chuckled to herself and said "Oh, Mr Frog, I'm sure the Bank couldn't possibly accept that as colateral." "Could you please check?" asked Kermit, I really need the money.

Well Patty thought her boss might get a chuckle himself over this, so she called him & explained the whole situation. To her astonishment he said...

"Well, that's a nick-nack, Patty Black, give the frog a loan!"

SSG Mac
The box seat with , Statler & Waldorf, - Wednesday, January 30, 2008, at 23:35:15 (ZULU)

Travis;

That's a pretty good deal on the Savage. The McM option is the best of the stocks offered. You might can build one a little cheaper but not much. The 10FP barreled action is relatively inexpensive. When you add the McM stock and Leupy scope the money jumps up quick.

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 00:51:16 (ZULU)

OK, so I bring up trashco and get a series of jokes in reply; serves me right:))

Still...hard to argue with a warranty and 150MOA worth of adjusting...

Joe M
Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 03:08:15 (ZULU)

AK-47 Blow-up. Ouch.....

(click)

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 03:23:30 (ZULU)

Back in.... the saddle.... again.... yee haw!!!!!

JR
home sweet home, - Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 04:12:16 (ZULU)

MK4,

The camera operator got some seriously excellent footage (pun intended) of everyone's tennis shoes and the sandy ground. What a putz.

InSain - Bravo's getting the place mapped out, we'll probably beeline to your AO on Saturday a.m., then work around the show. He's on a mission....

Duman
Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 04:21:49 (ZULU)

JR, where ya at and whose barrels should we be buyin' now?

Welcome home.

medicjim
Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 04:36:46 (ZULU)

Duman,

Videos like that make me appreciate the fact that I now wear Oakleys rather than RayBans.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 04:59:48 (ZULU)

Joe,

I tell you what, I am on the same page as you. I am going to pick one up and give it a work out on the BMG upper that I ordered. There are a couple other scopes I am going to give a shot on the smaller caliber rifles I need to glass when I get back. One I am going to try out is the Falcon Menace that is coming out of the UK( i think) the Nikko sterling Night Eater as well as the Bushnell 3200. If they don't live up to my expectations I will downgrade them to my 10/22, 17 hmr and my 223... Once I get enough money to pick up another NFO I will but until then let the trials begin...

I realize that Bringing up the Nikko is like bringing up the Trashco but I am going to give it a shot and work it over...

was looking at maybe picking up a Stevens Bolt action 223 after I get back they are going for about 340 and as I understand it the stevens is just an older model designed savage under a new label...

out here,

Morgue

http://www.nikkostirling.com/Content/PlatinumNighteater/Nighteater.htm

http://www.snipercentral.com/menace.htm

Mourge
Overseas, - Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 06:37:44 (ZULU)

Hey I couldn't help myself. Sister challenged me to a pun-fight, and it just boiled over.

I have a Super Sniper, and couldn't be happier with the purchase. I took my 10x side focus to Baghdad and it came home OK. Went hunting with it the weekend I got home & lost the side focus knob. SWFA couldn't provide another knob SO THEY SENT ME A NEW SCOPE!!!! Sold me now & forever on their warrantee.

The scope itself as always functioned flawlessly. The knobs really do track back & forth in 1/4moa, and always return to zero. There's much better glass out there but only at multiples of the price. Oh, and the mildot reticle actually subtends 1 mil... go figure.

For a family guy on a budget, I don't know how you can go wrong with one.

Bill

SSG Mac
Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 10:29:46 (ZULU)

Mourge, I looked at the Menace review you linked. That's an impressive scope. Did you note they offer one in metric? The knob click will match the mildot. If I had one gripe with my SS it was that old dual system of units: reticle in mils - knobs in moa. Some scope makers had wised up, but until now it had been only the Maseratis of the optics world. Now we can buy a Ford with mil knobs!!

FOr those of you at SHOT make sure you check out Ashbury International (booth 27099, gold hall). They've got some interesting things coming out. Talk to Gary Vance there. He's my shooting buddy & good people despite that.

Bill

SSG Mac
Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 10:56:56 (ZULU)

Mourge

I found a place called Lauer Weaponry (lauerweaponry.com) Got a complete paint kit from them. The stock turned out real well. They got over 100 colors to pick from including LADY PINK for any one interested. ha ha Speaking of scopes i bought a Kahles Multi Zero from SWFA off the Sample List. That set up works pretty slick on my 243.

Gary Kaney
NW, ILL, - Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 11:58:56 (ZULU)

Mac,

Yeah, I noticed the Options on the Menace, Its tempting to go that route but since everything I use at work and home is on the Minute system, I really don't want to back and forth. Plus if I like it then what? Replace all the ones at home to it and then go back and forth... Nah, I would rather stick with whats working for me...

I am going to pick up 1 menace and 1 S.S. Scope and try them out side by side and do a comparison. 1 on a BMG and 1 on a .416 Barrett they should beat the scopes relatively equally.

Gary,

Yeah, I have one of their spray kits for doing a base coat or recoating parts that have been wore down. Take the Piece to the wire wheel and what ever else it takes to clean off the rust and then do a nice recoat on it. Then Once it ends up on the gun, It can get coated to match and blend. But the nice thing about Krylon and rustoleum is you can recoat or touch up in the field without any special equipment just shake and spray... and it only costs 5 bucks a can BWG...

I am not saying I don't like the Spray kit, don't get me wrong I really like it. its great for pistols and other parts that you are planning on keeping in good condition But for painting a beater or a field stick not so much. IMHO

Gents,

I've been using Laser Range finders for years and finally broke down and picked one up. I went with a Bushnell Yardage Pro 1000, I got a good enough deal on it that its gathering dust till I get home. Optics planet has sales periodically and if you don't already have 1 its well worth adding to the kit bag.

I don't know if any of you have messed around with Mulitcam but I picked some up and its by far the best camouflage pattern I have used so far other than the Realtree 3-D ghillie I got a while back. For regular use its worth looking into. IMHO

Morgue

Laser Range finders

http://www.opticsplanet.net/rangefinders1.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/201000.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-elite-1500-arc-mossy-oak-laser-rangefinder-205101.html

Multicam

http://www.multicampattern.com/IMAGES.htm

Mourge
Overseas, - Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 13:03:30 (ZULU)

Gents,

Super Sniper sitting on my shelf right now, waiting for it's next home. I put it on my Savage 110FP and zeroed it the week of deer hunting in 06. Got to Joe's place at 2200 hours the night before opening morn. He checked it out real good and we A/B'd it against his Loopy M4M3. Of course, the Loopy glass was better. I said "hey, hold my beer and watch this". Joe sez "you don't want to do that". I spun the elevation dial up and down a couple times and said "my money is on it still being zeroed". He chuckled and said "we'll see".

5 minutes into opening morning, at very first light I made a heart shot on a buck at about 175 yards. Apparently, it tracks correctly. To be honest, I cheated a bit. I had boresighted with a grid collimator and according to that, the dials tracked properly and RTZ not an issue.

DO NOT mistake the Super Sniper for the Tasco 2.5-10x42 Mil Dot Varmint/Tactical. I had one of those that tracked well with a nice reticle, but the glass was not great. I got a second one and that one did not track well, and the reticle was substantially thicker than the other. The Varmint/Tactical is made to "Tasco" specs in China. The Super Sniper was and is made to mugh higher standards according to mil specs, and made in Japan IIRC. Also, Tasco quit distributing the SS. SWFA obtained the rights to the name, and renewed the manufacturing contract, keeping the spacs the same or better than the original .mil contract specs.

I think one of our members here recently got a Nikko/Sterling Nighteater, it came on a rifle that he stole <chuckle>. IMO, based on the look and feel of the scope, it comes out of the same factory that the new Simmons "by Meade" scopes are coming out of. The Simmons scope I put on my new deer rifle is adequate for it's purpose. The glass is damn good for a $50 scope, not as good as my Nikon ProStaff, but very close. Build quality is good, adjustments are repeatable and solid. However, the O-rings are too tight on the power ring.

Morgue, get the Stevens, you won't be disappointed. My new deer rifle is a Stevens in .270. Ordered it new through a local shop for $329 out the door. It ain't pretty, but it's a shooter. Put three shots into around an inch after a dozen shots to zero/break in before I packed it up to go to Joe's place. They are indeed Savage rifles, with the normal trigger rather than the accutrigger (although you can get them with the accutrigger for a bit more money). They come off the Savage machinery, barrels and all. The only difference is one less finishing step on the metal (my opinion based on simple observation), the barrel stamp, and the logo on the pistol grip.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 13:19:39 (ZULU)

>>> The question is NOT whether or not I am paranoid, but whether I am paranoid ENOUGH!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo

Just discovered this is B. S.!!! <<<

Of course, they could have bought off/coerced Snopes.com as well...

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 14:09:37 (ZULU)

RE: Optics country.

Pablito, you out there?

I gotz a question for you.

I noticed a few weeks ago that if I look at a block signal light (the kind we use on the railroad) with a green light over another, or a vertical string of three lights (six feet or so apart) at long distances (1/2 mile to over a mile) that the lights do not line up unless I look through the very center of my glasses. The green light always looks like it's off to the side. The further toward the edge of my glasses I look at the lights, the further it slides over. It's only the green lights that are off. The red lights appear to be in a vertical line no matter where I look through my glasses. ??????

How is this affecting my shooting? I don't notice this phenomenon at all during the day on fixed objects. I seem to be able to hit OK, but I have noticed that I have a hard time with the scope reticle when it gets darker out, looking through the top 1/4 of my glasses.

Can glasses be made that do not do this? I would guess a lens that would eliminate that would probably look pretty strange.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 16:16:48 (ZULU)

Geoff:

Progressive lenses?

Perhaps chromatic aberration?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 16:35:43 (ZULU)

re: SWFA SuperSniper scope

So, are you fellows saying that the current production SS10X42 (and similar) is a SFWA exclusive?

http://www.swfa.com/p-4304-super-sniper-10x42-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 16:41:13 (ZULU)

Morgue: I have YP1000 from many years ago...it gets its job done--i just learned to ask it to do jobs it can handle. The gov limits on laser power tend to limit all of the commercial units, though some have better optics and sensitivity to their weak signal reflections. The YP will range accurately in most conditions out to 500 on deer, tree, and grassy knolls--but if you want longer, make sure the target is large, reflective and unobstructed...I usually just range back to my garage for setting new targets in.

In all, I got exactly what I expected and wanted--and it is still doing its job 5 years later. BTW, I got mine thru AAFES.

Well, no word from Blake at all---and that does not surprise. The reception center I went to (the crap just before basic, shots by the dozens, long lines everywhere for everything, long days of useless waiting to hurry up, and paperwork from hell)--the place had like 5 pay phones for about 1600 folks:)) So, the choice was relax and get some sleep, or stand in the line for hours for 1 call. Heheh. I did that math and came up with the same answer.

According to the schedule--he will meet his new best friends for the next 13 weeks---aka "Drill Sergeants" --sometime in the next 12 hours.

I should get a letter in the next five days with his addy (IIRC, the drills made us tell mommy where we were). I may post it here (or PM it around) to boost his mailcall presence. Hahahahaha. I had to do 20 pushups for each letter I got:)) Oh, and using my title/ rank on the return addy line oughta add excitement to his days....heheheh.

I may not make it down for his graduation from basic, but I am planning to be there for jump week and that graduation. I plan to pin his wings to him. Note: "to him" and not "on him."

Edited to add: Click for a bit of news from the forgotten, truly forgotten, theater of the GWOT. Maybe someday the back-story will be told, but for now the PI is the sole front man for those efforts that remain undisclosed:)) Politics or not, the important thing is the asshats die.

Joe M
Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 17:43:08 (ZULU)

Geoff...

I are here.

There are several answers to the question.

First, single glass lenses do bend light differently through wedge shaped glass (prisms). Blue bends the most, and red the least, so at the edge of the glasses, when the glass has a wedge shape, you see colored effects around objects.

Thicker glasses are worse then the thinner ones... and looking through the edge is much worse than looking through the middle.

Also... the way we "perceive" can be different - it is a physiological thing.

The human eye is a terrible lens.

Technically, we can't see as well as we do - if you took a human eye and put film in the back, instead of a nerve bank, the image as a picture would be far worse. Because of that, the eye signals run through the brain's processing bank and get cleaned up.

Also there are many little "odd" things that we see when processing in the eye in normal ways, and sometimes, the processing isn't so good.

If you stare at the plain sky or a white paper for a while, you will see many things that aren't there... comets, burst of sparks, wiggly things... all of these are processing errors of the brain.

Then add a little dark rum and lime jooce, and it goes down hill from there.

;))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, January 31, 2008, at 21:42:27 (ZULU)

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