Sniper Country Duty Roster collective wisdom


Stocks - HS Precision:


The major difference between the Sendero and the PSS is the stock. The contours differ but they are both made by H-S Precision and include the aluminum bedding block. The action and barrel are produced on the same line as well as trigger componets. Some of the newer PSS's have detachable mags. Someting to consider when ordering sight unseen.

Ding <ding@stev.net>
USA - Tuesday, December 15, 1998 at 08:05:57 (EST) 


Seth: Just to make it totally clear, the 700 VS, the 700 PSS and the 700 Sendaro are essentially the same rifle. The Sendaro is of course a long action and the VS/PSS is a short action. Other than the stock proportions between the sporter models and the police model, the stocks are of the same construciton. Buy any of the three and you can not go wrong. The PSS is probably a good choice as the contour of the stock is more suited to tactical work, but even this is debatable as the marines like thinner sporter stocks with out palm swells.

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Tuesday, December 15, 1998 at 11:27:39 (EST) 


About PSS versus VS versions of Rem700. Pay the additional cost. The stock on the PSS is much stronger and stiffer, plus if you decide to add a handrail it has full length aluminum bedding blocks to mount to. The Parkerized finish of the PSS is also more durable than the Matte Blue of the VS. The PSS is truly a good deal as a sniper rifle.
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Tuesday, December 15, 1998 at 12:59:42 (EST) 
Mike M: Sorry to burst your bubble. The stocks on the VSS, Sendaro and PSS, OTHER THAN contour shape have been identical in construction since 1996. All three have the full length bedding block. There is ZERO difference in strength. If you do not believe this, you can cut one up to check. A guy I know did just this on his Sendaro (took the upper barrel channel off) and sure enough, there was the full length block.
scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 09:11:43 (EST)

Scott, you maybe right but the VS I saw in the local shop has a matte blue finish not Parkerized, it is a current year like the other fifty Traders has in stock. Both are the same bbl action but the stocks are different (Cut one of the VS Stocks for a handrail and see for yourself).

Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif. USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 18:08:08 (EST) 


Okay here it is from the Remington web site on the VS.

Our Model 700 VS incorporates the technology of police and military rifle design. Great dimensional stability comes from a composite stock of DuPont Kevlar®, fiberglass, and graphite, with an aircraft-grade aluminum bedding block running the full length of the receiver.
gooch <gooch@stormmountain.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 19:16:35 (EST) 


OK some confusion about the length of the bedding blocks on VS and PSS versions. In case I was not clear. Both have bedding blocks the length of the receivers. The PSS extends all the way foward to the two front sling mounts. This makes the forend stiffer. It also allows you to mill out the glass and install an underneath hand rail set up. Cut out the glass and drill and tape holes into that block for the screws that hold the rail. Try this with a VS Stock and good luck.

Just a note about stocks. Look how much thicker a McMillian stocks glass is over a H&S Stock, just about double. The fill of the McMillian is also denser than the H&S. This all makes for a more durable and stiffer stock. I like the PSS Stock but prefer the McMillian. I have busted a H&S Stock but all my McMillians are still in one piece including the M40A1 McMillian built for me in 1983.

A fact of life is you get what you pay for. Wholesale on the PSS is about $150.00 more than the VS. If you want to change the stock on the VS and don't mind the MATTE BLUE FINISH instead of the PARKERIZED PSS FINISH go ahead. If you want an inexpensive out of the box sniper rifle go with the PSS. I don't care which finish as they both work fine. The stock is the major difference. God feel the weight difference between the two H&S Stocks and you can tell. Both Bbl'd actions come of the same assembly line.

Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 22:40:12 (EST) 


Mike, I never said the Varmint Synthetic had a park finish. Every one I have ever seen since 1996 had a black crinkle paint type of finish on it. You said mat blue which implies to me a traditional smooth blueing process, which does not seem to be the case. This stuff looks more like a coating than a blueing process. I could be wrong but this stuff is textured. The PSS I purchased in 96 looks just like the VS I purchased in 95. 26" barrel with matt textured finish and concave crown. But in 95 the VS did not have the full length block, at least that is what I am told, They definitly went to it in 1996.

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 22:41:49 (EST) 


The reason the Rem VS finish looks textured is because it is not turned to a fine finish. It is blasted and matte blued. I don't see a problem with the matte blue. My complaint is the stock. I realy like the rail set up and the VS Stock is not easy to set up for it. I use a system that involves a Bipod and a special sling. I set up all my rifles that way. Buy what you like but don't think they are the same.
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 01:17:44 (EST) 
Mike, call H.S. Precision. They will tell you about the VS and PSS stock construction and clear up any confusion.

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 10:30:20 (EST) 



On the H&S stocks, I believe Scott is right. After the shoot in Wyoming my son's gun twisted the bipod stud loose and we could not retighten it and it sounded as though something was loose inside the stock. So on the way home we stopped at H&S and took the stock in for them to fix. We got a chance to talk to the manager Janet and after explaining the problem she said it was a very early stock and that all the new ones had the full length rails in them and that would take care of the problem. She then sent him a new stock at no charge. I might add that we wanted to up grade to the PSS style stock and offered to pay the difference and she sent the new stock, which was a PSS camo, at no charge to us. So I cant say enough nice about H&S and there products.

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 11:08:52 (EST) 


Well if Scott is right. I am pissed and have egg on my face about the stocks. The finish doesn't mean anything as I paint it anyway. The Sendero's and VS, and VSS's I have had must of had early stocks. If that is the case Remington has lied and should pay all of us PSS owners the extra money back. Scott if I owe you an apology here it is, but the finish is not the same. I went to the local Remington Rep and looked again. Mike
Mike M <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 12:29:13 (EST) 
Mike, no apology necessary! When I said the finish on the stock is the same, I meant that the texture is the same, and the construction is the same, but your are right in that the PSS stock comes in a matt black color while the VS and Sendaro share a black and gray drizzle paint look. It was the barreled actions that I believed share the same finish, at least as of 1996. I think we were getting our selfs confused in what the otehr was saying!
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 13:30:23 (EST) 
Scott are you sure the Aluminum runs all the way out to the front sling swivels on th VS? I cut a VSS last year and it didn't. I was told it was a 1997 model.

Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 14:29:32 (EST) 


Mike, I can not blame you for being torqued. I love my Remintons but I have never understood the price differential between the VS and PSS. Once these two became essentially the same except for the stock, there was just no justification for it. You can mail order a PSS stock for not much more than the VS stock!!! So what the heck justifies the "extra" price I just can not say. Name probably!
Call HS Precision at 605-341-3006 and ask for Janet. She will give you the run down on the CURRENT manufacturing process of the VS and PSS stocks.
Scott <xring@yaddayaddayadda>
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 15:35:05 (EST) 
I think HS changed their stocks within the last year or two because I have seen a VS and a Sendero within that time frame that both had the aluminium up in the fore end.

Rich <dick2@clarkston.com>
WA USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 22:42:53 (EST) 


One more thing on H&S stocks. I got one of their new stocks last summer for my tactical rife and it's the one for the 40X Remington and I think its a lot better than the PSS stock for a sniper because it has a flatter bottom and rides the bag better and it also has a slight taper to the front so moving it back and forth on the bag will give you slight elevatin changes and then the grip is for right or left hand only so it has the palm swell but it is thin like the VS and very comfortable to shoot. It seems to be a more up dated PSS stock.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, December 18, 1998 at 10:51:18 (EST) 
Mike from Cal,

An H-S stock is foam filled, it's a urethane foam with milled fiberglass mix, and is surrounded by a layer of graphite, kevlar, and laminated fiberglass, which is then coated with another urethane shell. Now to install your own cheek piece, whether or not you are qualified, would break my heart as I probably made the damn thing depending on how long ago you got it. Plus inside that foam is an aluminum bedding block which goes from forend past the palmswell clear into the butt, probably a couple inches shy of the recoil pad. I have made the adjustable stocks, cheek piece and LOP, and we use aluminum inserts to hold everything in place inside the stock, AND we have to trim the bedding block so everything will fit. Now if I was going to spend the time and money on an adjustable stock, I'd just call H-S and order one. Take it easy everybody.
 
JR <mrpink@rapidnet.com>
Rapid City, SD USA - Wednesday, January 06, 1999 at 01:04:46 (EST) 


JR, glad to see you commenting here!

By the way, I believe H.S. now offers to upgrade the standard PSS stock with the new adjustable cheek rest for around $100. This would certainly be worth it for those who want a higher rest but do not want to 100mph tape a pad to the rifle. Also, the factory job will obviously be very well done when compared to some "home brew" solutions. Just thought I'd past this on.

JR, thanks again for the low down on the HS construction.
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Wednesday, January 06, 1999 at 11:36:16 (EST) 


JR,
Nice to hear from someone who makes H-S stocks. I have several that are giving me excellent accuracy with the drop-in fit (as it came from the factory). But I have one Remington that just won't shoot worth a crap unless both action screws are torqued way beyond reason - and then it punches single hole five shot groups. The heads on the screws won't take this kind of torque for long before the allen heads strip out.

How would you recommend bedding this one gun (in hopes of getting it t shoot with a reasonable torque setting)?

Thanks for any info.
JPinTX
JPinTX <pruett@inu.net>
Lufkin, TX USA - Friday, January 08, 1999 at 14:23:07 (EST) 


Glad to hear everyone is concerned with my employment, HA! I've been with H-S for a while now, but I am not a stock builder. Have built stocks in the past but now I spend my days as their barrelmaker, just to make sure they can hold their 1/2 moa guarantee up. And they can and do. Anyone headin' down to SHOT in Atlanta make sure to stop by the H-S booth there, got some new toys comin' out, know you'll like 'em.

JR <mrpink@rapidnet.com>
rapid city, sd USA - Friday, January 08, 1999 at 21:36:12 (EST) 


JR

Thanks for the HS precision stock info, my PSS is about 2 1\2 years old, perhaps youdid make the stock. From what you say, it does sound like a pain in the rear to install one. I could machine the blocks and adjustment mechinism (I am a welder/machinist) and have one of the guys glass it in (I work at an off shore powerboat manufacturer) but it is probaly not worth it. Just hoping to get away from the "duct tape a rag to it" look.

Mike S <mws@ecom.net>
Southern, California USA - Friday, January 08, 1999 at 22:15:57 (EST) 


Bedding an H-S stock:

why?

Little secret though, I do bed all of my H-S stocks. Not at the action screws or the barrel but behind the recoil lug where it meets up with the bedding block, as sometimes there is a small gap between them. I think with that gap the action screws take some of the brunt of the force, which they should not, so I epoxy, fill in the gap. That is all the bedding I do on mine anyway. Otherwise the action is centered by the bedding block, so there is no need to bed it.

Take it easy everybody,

JR <mrpink@rapidnet.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Wednesday, February 03, 1999 at 00:51:49 (ZULU) 


one more thing... that is for a Remingtom style H-S stock, you will need to bed the action on a Winchester M70, R@#&* M77, or Browning A-Bolt stock which we also provide, but I don't like a one of 'em so I won't discuss 'em.

Out

JR <mrpink@rapidnet.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Wednesday, February 03, 1999 at 00:56:21 (ZULU) 


JR,
How did you say to bed a R..., Ruuu, Ruuuggg? What of type bedding compound and how long does it last? Enquiring minds want yo know.

peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
NO-CAPS CITY, bY-gAwD, USA - Wednesday, February 03, 1999 at 14:21:07 (ZULU) 


Talked with the H-S Precision folks, their stocks have a rail that extends to FIVE inches past the last screw...that means it is in the GRIP and then some !!! They do not reccomend bedding but do say to torque @ 65 INCH-POUNDS. If that is the case - why go with another 300 bucks for a stock that is very unwieldy??? Duh??? Just my opinion. I like the idea of puting some bedding, Devcon ? , at the recoil lug.
Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
"Back to Reality", AL, USA - Thursday, February 04, 1999 at 05:34:38 (ZULU) 
On the H&S stock compared to the McMillan A2 or A3s, I haven't had a chance to try the new adjustable H&S but when I build my 260 I went with the H&S stock for a 40x Remington and I think its the best stock I have tried yet. It has a similar design to the PSS stock but with only a right hand palm swell, which makes the grip smaller and more comfortable. It also has a "Semi" flat bottom on the forearm, which makes it sit more stable on a rest and the forearm has a slight taper to it so a little movement back and forth will raise or lower the sight picture. This seemed to me to be a more up dated model of the PSS and I love the way it feels and shoots. I have no need for adj. cheek pieces so that was not a consideration, this does have the cheek piece on it and it is very easy for me to atain a good spot weld every time and its half the price or less of the McMillan. Just a tought.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, February 12, 1999 at 14:53:21 (ZULU) 
LAST, could it be that the McMillan stocks are just the current "flavor"??? I, personally, don't care for synthetics....but after talking to Ms Thompson of H-S at the SHOT show and seeing the display piece of what goes into a H-S stock made me a believer....time will tell, can always modify the palm swell to suit me and same for the cheek weld area, ditto for adding a "Kick-eeze" recoil pad. Not so much for recoil but for added length, then again shooting 5 different loads w/20 rounds per load does wear on you after awhile !!!! Sure wish Rem would make a laminate similar to Rugers !

Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
Sweet Home, ALABAMA, USA - Saturday, February 13, 1999 at 00:21:57 (ZULU) 


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