Sako, and other Rifles of German manufacture:
I know the older Sako's were great rifles but the newer ones went down hill. As far as the Mauser's, I dont care for the big action's or long bolt throws. I am not that familiar with the newer ones so I cant say. Just my opinion for what its worth.
USA - Monday, December 28, 1998 at 19:23:36 (EST)
Does Sako 75 have some serious flaws you rifle builders are aware of and I´m not, or what is this Sako bashing I have encountered lately in the net ? In news-forums new rumours surface quite steadily tellign that the new ones are so-so compared to older ones. Is this based on fact or is this just something people "know" because they "heard" it from "somebody" in a gun show ?
Happy New Year to you all !!
Helsinki, Finland - Tuesday, December 29, 1998 at 04:40:44 (EST)
I'm more (competitive) shooter than technician.
Like Hexa I can't find a difference in "older" and "newer" type Sako-actions. The only thing I know that the top shooters in all military and police competitions I took part tend to use the Sako TRG 21 (those newer types), Blaser R93, Mauser SR 86 and Sauer 3000 among some custom made others (ie. Keppler, Gruenig&Elmiger). The days of the Remingtons and Winchesters seems to be gone.
1) Non anatomic stock (lack of a real pistol grade stock, adjustables butt-plates etc.) ---> look at Olympic games in Biathlon, what kind of stock do they use to shoot under stress in prone, kneeing and in standing position like a military shooter sometimes has to? (We are not talking from benchrest rifles mounted on a bench in 1 hour...)
2) Bedding problems??? Never heard of it since Sako TRG-21, Blaser
R 93 or Artic Warfare. Barrel mounted on solid aluminium...
Sorry for my "straight" opinion...
Frank Henn <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Kaiserslautern, Germany - Tuesday, December 29, 1998 at 07:31:44 (EST)
USA - Tuesday, December 29, 1998 at 14:49:52 (EST)
B.C., CANADA - Tuesday, December 29, 1998 at 21:19:10 (EST)
Al Ostapowicz <email@example.com>
Sako Country Spoken here in the Grand Republic Of , Ohio USA - Wednesday, December 30, 1998 at 00:24:42 (EST)
I have on several occasions in reservist sniping exercises (usually lasting from friday night to late sunday afternoon) seen TRG-21´s in use and they have shown for what they are: Extremly accurate, nice-weather police and target rifles. When used as a normal military type sniper rifle (crawling all day long in the bush and dirt) they do start to give problems. Usually the trigger action is to blame, it just wont fire. Or the firing pin doesn´t hit the primer with enough force to send teh bullet flying and so on. Anyways out of the three or four TRG-21´s rifles present every weekend at least one has given problems. It may be that the users have adjusted the triggers improperly or something, but at least these rifles are not idiot proof (what is ?).
The TRG-series has passed all kinds of abuse-tests both in Finland and abroad. Problem is, that it is very difficult to test the rifles in a scientific way and still create all possible kinds of environments. In any case it has failed so often that we decided to look for something else in our effort to acquire a decent 338 Lapua Magnum target/tactical rifle.
We have even suggested to the military, that if they buy TRG-41´s (338 Lapua Magnum) they should ask Sako to redesign a new, simplified "military-trigger-system" for the rifle. Personally I do not like the stock, as it has unnecessary many adjustments (which will break down sooner or later) and is somewhat clumsy when you crawl with it. On the other hand it´s aluminium bedding block structure and the rifles hammer forged action are to be appreciated. For competition and normal police work these rifles are among the best rifles that exist. For the wilderness some things could be better executed.
So there is batch of 338 LM rifles that will be made by one the best rifle smiths in Finland, Jyri Jalonen. Weapons built by him (mainly rifles, but also siluette pistols) have won competitions in European and World championship levels. Still he understands what is important in a "real world" rifle, (i.e. qualiy must be good, accuracy must be excellent and reliability must be very good too). How our project will really end up, is open, but I doubt that our rifles will be anything more than excellent ones. I´ll keep you posted.
As Torf and Torsten have proved, in Europe Rem 700 series or even Savage 110 FP´s are not the bargains, what they are in the States, especially when compared to locally produced rifles. Taxes, freights and extra-dealers between factory and end-user tend to inflate prices very much. Also European optics tend to be quite competitive here. Especially as Leupold M1´s are M3´s are offered at totally absurd prices. Still I may acguire a 3.5-10x40 M3 LR as it seems a very good compromise on everything and I like the "max one turn of the elevation dial"-BDC/MOA concept. One extra difficultiy here is the fireamrs licensing. That causes people to be extremly sensitive about what they buy, as swapping and trading rifles all the time will just cause you a headache with the forms and licensing fees. People may wan to pay a little extra for a name-brand just to be sure of quality.
Sorry this became too logn, just wanted to prove that I like facts, not some stupid "our products are better than your products" discussion.
Helsinki, Finland - Wednesday, December 30, 1998 at 11:52:46 (EST)
I had acquired the skills from Australian Millitary Advisors a while ago at Dat Do - Ba Ria (near Vung Tau). Now, my applications are just for fun and collectible. I use out of the box ammo.
TIKKA M Sporter 595: I am very impressed and have no complain. The rifle performs as its claim, an excellent target rifle. BTW-Thanks to all the advises from this thread on moly ammo. The M595/308 W. price was about 650 USD (from Jerry Sports Center). It has a 62cm (24.40 inches) barrel and wood stock.
SAKO TRG21 and 41: Both of them come in transport cases with all the accessories except silencers. The SAKO quick release scope base is interchangable on all 3 rifles. There are low and high scope bases for different objective sizes. Again I am happy with both at 0.5 mile or 840 meters (measured by uncalibrated Japanese SUV's odometer and Garmin GPS 45).
Mr. Hexa_ I had a chance to compare T76 side by side with TRG 41. I personaly likes the 41 better for: stock, grip, weight and lenght. It is too long for me. I am only 165cm and the T 76 is 132cm. They both performed very well at 840 meters. I did not "test" them at 1500 yards or meters as in theirs ad. BTW- the T76 has built in muzle brake, not removable like TRG 41. They are about the same price in US.
USA - Wednesday, December 30, 1998 at 13:51:25 (EST)
Oslo, Norway - Wednesday, December 30, 1998 at 13:54:48 (EST)
Mike M. <DMMDNKN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Wednesday, December 30, 1998 at 15:54:20 (EST)
Hehe, this is a love or hate rifle. I can't agree myself. Maybe a targetgun, but it's certenly not a military sniper. A gun for sunny sundays :-). The concept of a component gun is good. I also like the elimination of the action. Jeff Cooper(.45ACP) loves it!!
Torsten, maybe we can copy the Blaser Tactical layout with parts from a Mauser M66 and G3 magazines ;-)
To Hans, re. Tikkas:
The new Tikkas are cleaning up in production BR. They are exellent. The Tikka Target with milled alu and steel-tubed stock is one radical rifle! Closest thing to a mobile BR-railgun I've ever seen. Why the Finnish Army is bothering with the Sakos when they can have the Tikkas with McMillan-stocks at a fraction of the price is beond me.
Oslo, Norway - Wednesday, December 30, 1998 at 17:22:57 (EST)
To NhaTrang: Cool to hear that Sakos have found their way to strange places (Vietnam, I guess ?). Anyways I read in an american gun magazine that the Finnish Amry actually had ordered for testing one Dakota T-76 Longbow. Last week I read in a local gun magazine that one miltary test rifle in 338 LM from Pirkan Ase (probaly the best known small gunsmith/gun producer in Finland, producer of Lynx-straight-pull-rifles) that was sold at an auction for 800 USD !! They charge for a new one around 2000 USD. Too bad I missed it.
Anyways I think too, that TRG-41´s one major plus point, is its comparatively low weight. It weights empyt without scope something like 5,5 kg, less than 6 kg in any case.
I think that Sako´s factory suppressors are made by a company called BR-Tuote Oy, Jyväskylä, Finland. Sako do not offer suppressors for the 338 version, though. From BR-Tuote you can get a suppressors even for a 50 BMG, so getting a 338 model is not a problem. I´m sorry that the import of suppressors to the States is so difficult, otherwise I could buy it for you here and send it via UPS or post over to the USA. In any case if needed I could help if you know how to get the suppressor through customs. Here suppressors are considered mainly as "noice-pollution-reducers" even though at least one murder and several dozens of poaching incidents over the years have involved a supressed firearm. So far the good points have outweighed the negative points in this matter, even though we have had to modify our firearma to comply wiht EU regulations.
A friend of my friend tested just a few weeks ago a TRG-41 in 338 LM with a BR-Tuote suppressor. It became evident that the muzzle brake, to which the suppressor is mounted, moved around a little bit and the bullets touched sometimes the internals of the suppressor. No problems otherwise but accuracy went out of the window. The shooter suggested that the brake should be threaded to the barrel and then a "pressure-band" screwed tight over it. I think Accuracy Internationals Super Magnum uses this kind of solution.
Helsinki, Finland - Thursday, December 31, 1998 at 07:42:39 (EST)
Happy New Year !
USA - Thursday, December 31, 1998 at 20:11:06 (EST)
any input from you girls on this one ??? A friend wants a new rifle, he´s getting rid of a Rem 700 VS and his defence budget allows for a SAKO TRG. Seems to be a straid forward rig with nothing to add.
Germany - Sunday, February 21, 1999 at 17:07:18 (ZULU)
I was going to buy a TRG-S in .338 Lapua and gradually customize it over a period of time.I did not particularly care for the looks of the TRG itself.
I figured that I could customize a TRG-S cheaper than buying a TRG and get exactly what I wanted in the first place.
I had in mind a McMillan A2 or HS Pro Series stock,aftermarket bull heavy barrel by Dan Lilja,and an adjustable aftermarket trigger.The TRG-S itself was on sale for $675 Canadian funds.I figured the whole package would cost me around $2000 by the time it was complete.
I was ready to place my order for the TRG-S when I found a Weatherby Accumark (comes with HS stock and stainless steel fluted barrel) in .340 Weatherby.It was used very little and bought it for only $850 Canadian.I couldn't pass up the deal and settled for it instead.
You didn't mention if he was going for a magnum or not.The Sako L691 is about as strong and finely made as they come.Sako certainly doesn't need my endorsement,that's for sure.
I would certainly recommend the Sako if that's what your friend wants.If he gets it,fill me in on how it works.I'd love to hear about it.
Jeff Babineau <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Sunday, February 21, 1999 at 19:29:15 (ZULU)
poor as a Churchmouse, in, Germany - Monday, February 22, 1999 at 09:49:57 (ZULU)