Sniper Country Duty Roster collective wisdom


Remington 700 rifles:


Hi there everyone.

I've recently had some problems in choosing a Remington 700 for my father. My dad was an army sniper back in Vietnam and though he's been out of it for awhile he's really getting back into precision shooting and I know he misses having a rifle of the grade and type he used in Vietnam. hence for Christmas I've been trying to buy him a Remington 700 but I really can't get ahold of the Sendero SF in .300 Win Mag like I wanted. So now I have to decide to wait around longer or go for the Police Sniper version. Does anybody know what the benefits of the Police Sniper version are? In addition I've already located and purchased the scope. A Leupold M3 Tactical Long range 3.5-10 , the one with the BDC and Mil Dot Reticle. So what should I do? Thanks for your time!

Seth Georgion <CaptAhab@collegeclub.com>
San Diego, CA USA - Tuesday, December 15, 1998 at 00:16:34 (EST) 



Seth--The major difference between the Sendero and the PSS is the stock. The contours differ but they are both made by H-S Precision and include the aluminum bedding block. The action and barrel are produced on the same line as well as trigger componets. Some of the newer PSS's have detachable mags. Someting to consider when ordering sight unseen.

Excellent choice in scopes! Hard to beat Leupold.
Ding <ding@stev.net>
USA - Tuesday, December 15, 1998 at 08:05:57 (EST) 



Seth: Just to make it totally clear, the 700 VS, the 700 PSS and the 700 Sendaro are essentially the same rifle. The Sendaro is of course a long action and the VS/PSS is a short action. Other than the stock proportions between the sporter models and the police model, the stocks are of the same construciton. Buy any of the three and you can not go wrong. The PSS is probably a good choice as the contour of the stock is more suited to tactical work, but even this is debatable as the marines like thinner sporter stocks with out palm swells. But if you want to get something that'll really make your pop smile (but will be less accurate over the long haul), try to find an older wood stocked 700 Varmint. This would closely approximate what the troops carried in the late 60s early 70s. Of course, you'd have to remove the high gloss finish...never mind. Go with a Vs or PSS. If you have your heart set on the Sendaro, find a hole in the wall or momand pop gun shop and ask the dealer to order you one from one of the big supply houses. You'd be surprised how much you can save this way. I got my 700VS for $500 ($1997 dollars) and a Sendaro was not much more if memory serves. Most of these smaller stores are willing to go with a minimal mark-up on these orders as they do not have to stock the item.

About the scope. If you want to get your pop out to 1000 yards you will have to order the 15 minute tapered shim kit ($20.00) from Armament Technology (see our link). This slips under the scope mount. With it, you will be able to use the full range of the LR M3 scope. with out this shim, or with out a tapered base, you may run out of elevation adjustment before 1000 yards. With the shim you can get out to 1200!

Good luck, I hope when my boy grows up he will be such a great kid!
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Tuesday, December 15, 1998 at 11:27:39 (EST) 



About PSS versus VS versions of Rem700. Pay the additional cost. The stock on the PSS is much stronger and stiffer, plus if you decide to add a handrail it has full length aluminum bedding blocks to mount to. The Parkerized finish of the PSS is also more durable than the Matte Blue of the VS. The PSS is truly a good deal as a sniper rifle.
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Tuesday, December 15, 1998 at 12:59:42 (EST) 

Mike M: Sorry to burst your bubble. The stocks on the VSS, Sendaro and PSS, OTHER THAN contour shape have been identical in construction since 1996. All three have the full length bedding block. There is ZERO difference in strength. If you do not believe this, you can cut one up to check. A guy I know did just this on his Sendaro (took the upper barrel channel off) and sure enough, there was the full length block.
scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 09:11:43 (EST) 
Mike M: Again, not to beat up on you but you have some old data. The finish on the rifles in question is also the same now. Back in the 80's the PSS was a different rifle with a parkerized type finish and the HS stock. It also had a 24" barrel can a flat cut muzzle with a 45 degree crown. Nowadays the PSS uses the same barreled action as the VS. Or you could say the VS uses the same barreled action as the PSS. The finish is identical. This is a boon for the target shooter as you can now buy PSS technology for a varmint rifle price. The newer PSS has a 26" barrel with Remington's concaved crown. The finish appears to be a baked on pebbled paint. Something like powder coating but not quite. The finish holds up very well and it a solid matt black in color. There is no blue on either action. A call to Remington will verify this. The PSS and VS barreled action come off of the same production line. The ONLY difference today is the stock contour and the dealer mark-up on the PSS price!

To make it clear, if you get a modern PSS (post 1990?) you are not getting a custom shop rifle as some would have you believe. You are simply getting a 700VS barreled action with a PSS contoured stock!
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 09:34:58 (EST) 



Scott, you maybe right but the VS I saw in the local shop has a matte blue finish not Parkerized, it is a current year like the other fifty Traders has in stock. Both are the same bbl action but the stocks are different (Cut one of the VS Stocks for a handrail and see for yourself). The PSS was never a custom gun period. You probably know more about this than me. I am olny basing this on buying a new one every year for the last ten and going to the Remington Armorer School. They may have lied to me. But while we are at it how many PSS's have a 5R bbl on them. Mike
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif. USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 18:08:08 (EST) 

Okay here it is from the Remington web site on the VS.

Our Model 700™ VS incorporates the technology of police and military rifle design. Great dimensional stability comes from a composite stock of DuPont Kevlar®, fiberglass, and graphite, with an aircraft-grade aluminum bedding block running the full length of the receiver. Fitted with a 26" free-floating, heavy-weight barrel. All metalwork has a fine, black matte finish. Right-hand versions chambered for .22-250 Remington, .223 Remington, and .308 Win. New for 1998 are 3 left-hand specs in .22-250 Remington. .223 Remington, and .308 Win.

gooch <gooch@stormmountain.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 19:16:35 (EST) 



OK some confusion about the length of the bedding blocks on VS and PSS versions. In case I was not clear. Both have bedding blocks the length of the receivers. The PSS extends all the way foward to the two front sling mounts. This makes the forend stiffer. It also allows you to mill out the glass and install an underneath hand rail set up. Cut out the glass and drill and tape holes into that block for the screws that hold the rail. Try this with a VS Stock and good luck.

Just a note about stocks. Look how much thicker a McMillian stocks glass is over a H&S Stock, just about double. The fill of the McMillian is also denser than the H&S. This all makes for a more durable and stiffer stock. I like the PSS Stock but prefer the McMillian. I have busted a H&S Stock but all my McMillians are still in one piece including the M40A1 McMillian built for me in 1983.

A fact of life is you get what you pay for. Wholesale on the PSS is about $150.00 more than the VS. If you want to change the stock on the VS and don't mind the MATTE BLUE FINISH instead of the PARKERIZED PSS FINISH go ahead. If you want an inexpensive out of the box sniper rifle go with the PSS. I don't care which finish as they both work fine. The stock is the major difference. God feel the weight difference between the two H&S Stocks and you can tell. Both Bbl'd actions come of the same assembly line.

About PSS's with 5R Bbls I have one and it just about took an act of Congress to get it.

Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 22:40:12 (EST) 


Mike, I never said the Varmint Synthetic had a park finish. Every one I have ever seen since 1996 had a black crinkle paint type of finish on it. You said mat blue which implies to me a traditional smooth blueing process, which does not seem to be the case. This stuff looks more like a coating than a blueing process. I could be wrong but this stuff is textured. The PSS I purchased in 96 looks just like the VS I purchased in 95. 26" barrel with matt textured finish and concave crown. But in 95 the VS did not have the full length block, at least that is what I am told, They definitly went to it in 1996.

PSS with a 5R? God I wish!!! Please tell me this is so! I know the M24 left the shop with this but I did not hear of the current PSS model gettign this profile.

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 22:41:49 (EST) 



On the PSS with 5R (5 radial vice lands and grooves)barrels. I once taught a LE course where a feller had a PSS with a Mike Rock 5R barrel (M24 type). THe thing shot like a million dollars. Anyone know the deal on this? I think these barrels were used in the original PSS's but I'm not sure.

I've emailed Remington for clarification on some of this stuff. Wait out.

gooch <gooch@stormmountain.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 23:12:10 (EST) 



The reason the Rem VS finish looks textured is because it is not turned to a fine finish. It is blasted and matte blued. I don't see a problem with the matte blue. My complaint is the stock. I realy like the rail set up and the VS Stock is not easy to set up for it. I use a system that involves a Bipod and a special sling. I set up all my rifles that way. Buy what you like but don't think they are the same.
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 01:17:44 (EST) 

A PSS with a 5R. Hmmm...I wonder if the guy somehow got the custom shop to stick an M24 barrel in his PSS? If they make this a standard feature on the PSS, it would finally be worth the extra price.

Mike, call H.S. Precision. They will tell you about the VS and PSS stock construction and clear up any confusion.

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 10:30:20 (EST) 



On the H&S stocks, I believe Scott is right. After the shoot in Wyoming my son's gun twisted the bipod stud loose and we could not retighten it and it sounded as though something was loose inside the stock. So on the way home we stopped at H&S and took the stock in for them to fix. We got a chance to talk to the manager Janet and after explaining the problem she said it was a very early stock and that all the new ones had the full length rails in them and that would take care of the problem. She then sent him a new stock at no charge. I might add that we wanted to up grade to the PSS style stock and offered to pay the difference and she sent the new stock, which was a PSS camo, at no charge to us. So I cant say enough nice about H&S and there products. On the 5R barrel's if my history serves me correct there were only a few 5R barrels put on the early PSS and if you were lucky enough to get one they were really shooter's!!! with accuracy up to 20% better than the standard 6 lans but to my knowledge there not putting them on the new one's. (I only wish they would)
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 11:08:52 (EST) 
Well if Scott is right. I am pissed and have egg on my face about the stocks. The finish doesn't mean anything as I paint it anyway. The Sendero's and VS, and VSS's I have had must of had early stocks. If that is the case Remington has lied and should pay all of us PSS owners the extra money back. As to the 5R bbls Yes the Custom Shop is the one that put on the 5R bbl for me. It took pulling some strings to do it and that was in 1997. I tried again last month with no luck. You see with supporting that Race Car they have all but closed down the Custom Shop. I haven't given up yet as the 5R is a better bbl. Scott if I owe you an apology here it is, but the finish is not the same. I went to the local Remington Rep and looked again. Mike
Mike M <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 12:29:13 (EST) 

Col. Cooper I think his scout rifle is not/was not designed for snipers it is more of a guerilla rifle or for a forward observer that may be required to "get lost" quickly. The later day practice of incorporating snipers for forward observation has dictated a different rifle since they discovered the opportunity to make things a bit dangerous for enemy forward positions. Besides Marines are about the only animal that's tough enough to pack something like the modern sniper rifle and still move quickly with it. Take that PSS to some mountain hunt some day and see if you still want to kiss it at the end of the day. "INCOMING!"
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 13:29:22 (EST) 
Mike, no apology necessary! When I said the finish on the stock is the same, I meant that the texture is the same, and the construction is the same, but your are right in that the PSS stock comes in a matt black color while the VS and Sendaro share a black and gray drizzle paint look. It was the barreled actions that I believed share the same finish, at least as of 1996. I think we were getting our selfs confused in what the otehr was saying!
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 13:30:23 (EST) 
Is there anyway to verify what serial number string had the 5R on the PSS and what year they were produced? I believe a friend may have one of these as the accuracy is startling for a PSS. His is the old style with the 24" barrel, flat cut muzzle and 45 degree crown. His also had the parkerized finish. I believe this rifle may be as old as the mid 1980s.

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 13:39:55 (EST) 


PSS with 5R bbl.s, I don't know how many were made on purpose as a standard item. If you look at the bore of the rifle you will see an obvious difference between the two. For one thing 5 groves versus 6 on the standard. Mine was strickly a Custom Shop thing and not a normal order item. Lets face it Reminton wants to sell the M24's and if you have a PSS with a 5R bbl your pretty close for about $2,000.00 less. I'm still pissed about paying more for the PSS and only getting a different finish on the bbl/action. Parkerizing cost no more than Blue.

Scott are you sure the Aluminum runs all the way out to the front sling swivels on th VS? I cut a VSS last year and it didn't. I was told it was a 1997 model.

Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 14:29:32 (EST) 


Mike, I can not blame you for being torqued. I love my Remintons but I have never understood the price differential between the VS and PSS. Once these two became essentially the same except for the stock, there was just no justification for it. You can mail order a PSS stock for not much more than the VS stock!!! So what the heck justifies the "extra" price I just can not say. Name probably!
Some of it is the fault of the retailer who tries to make a little extra on the PSS name. I met one gomer who wanted well over $750 for a PSS and the only reason he could give was that it was a specialty item. This was shortly after the introduction of the VS. With the intro of the DM model, I am sure you will see even more price gouging.

Call HS Precision at 605-341-3006 and ask for Janet. She will give you the run down on the CURRENT manufacturing process of the VS and PSS stocks.
Scott <xring@yaddayaddayadda>
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 15:35:05 (EST) 



I think HS changed their stocks within the last year or two because I have seen a VS and a Sendero within that time frame that both had the aluminium up in the fore end.

You can buy a PSS from one of the police supply outfits or a dealer that got one from a police supplier, but remington does not sell them to "regular people" anymore, 870 and 11-87 police are sold the same way. note that none of these firearms are in the remington retail catalog. There is another big rifle company that does sell it's top of the line sniper rig to regular guys, and those nasty awful shotguns with the extended mag tubes as well...
Rich <dick2@clarkston.com>
WA USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 22:42:53 (EST) 



One more thing on H&S stocks. I got one of their new stocks last summer for my tactical rife and it's the one for the 40X Remington and I think its a lot better than the PSS stock for a sniper because it has a flatter bottom and rides the bag better and it also has a slight taper to the front so moving it back and forth on the bag will give you slight elevatin changes and then the grip is for right or left hand only so it has the palm swell but it is thin like the VS and very comfortable to shoot. It seems to be a more up dated PSS stock.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, December 18, 1998 at 10:51:18 (EST) 

Scott you realy got me thinking about past PSS's. You are right they were easier to clean than the new ones. I suspect they are not changing the tools as much as they used to.
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif. USA - Friday, December 18, 1998 at 21:42:19 (EST) 

Mike M. - Your comment... "Scott you realy got me thinking about past PSS's. You are right they were easier to clean than the new ones." made me think...
One of the reasons that I'm thinking of selling my newest PSS (I have two), in spite
of it shooting very well, is that the barrel is a fouling "PIG". A recent 200 round match left me with a copper plated bore, that took an hour of scrubbing, 24 hours
with a plugged bbl full of "Hoppe's Benchrest Copper Remover", another 30 minutes (to no avail) and another 24 hours of copper remover. The gun shoots very well (when clean, will keep 10 rounds of GM in a 1/2"), but what a dog to clean... My other PSS was made somewhere around '90 -'92 (dark green parkerized), and cleans up in a snapp. Both my Winchester M70 Sharpshooter and M70 "V", would be squeekie clean after 10 brush strokes, and 4 or 5 patches... anybody else having trouble cleaning recent Remingtons..

Pablito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, December 20, 1998 at 08:40:59 (EST) 



This forum is starting to look like a Remington 700 fan-club.

I happen to think the 700 action is not the best for military sniping. Actually I think a M24 would be hard pressed beating a upgraded Swedish Mauser M41 sniper (laminated stock with pistolgrip/modern scope). If I had to fight for months on end unsupported ( unthinkable to most US-snipers :-))I know wich rifle I want, the improved Mauser.

The Rem700/M24 most obvious weaknesses for me is:

-Extractor, difficult to replace in the field.

-Trigger, fragile and too complicated.

-Bolt difficult to disassemble in field.

-Safety does not block fireingpin.

-Scopemountbases should be a integral part of the action.

-The M24 would be more foolproof as a 700ADL.

It strikes me that most of these weaknesses are corrected on a Winchester M70 Synthetic Heavy Varmint.
 
Take a look at the M24 system. Keep the H-S stock and the 5R-barrel. Then compare the Rem700 action too others modyfied to fit the M24 stock:

-Win M70 push-feed.

-Win M70 controlled feed.

-Mauser M98 FN-type with onepiece milled steel flooplateassemly.

-Sako M75.

-Wichita repeater.

-Weatherby.

-Whatever.

Wich action would you use?

Do we have a 1999 argument?

BTW. The European Blaser R93 do not have an action. It is the cylindrical rear end of the barrel that go into the alu beddingblock.
 
TorF
Oslo, Norway - Monday, December 28, 1998 at 17:41:03 (EST) 



TorF,
What have you got against Remingtons?? Granted they aren't probably the best action there is but they do,do a pretty good job. With out the proper tools there are a lot of other rifles that would be tough to change parts in the field also. If maintained properly they give years of trouble free service.I can only speak for my own but I am sure Gooch or Rick could tell you a lot more on the durability of the M-24 or the M-40. I wouldn't have a Weatherby up my A..if it ment I had to quit shooting. I like the Winchester but you have to do a lot of work to them to get them to shoot. Maybe in a sniper grade rifle they would be as good as the M-24. I know the older Sako's were great rifles but the newer ones went down hill. As far as the Mauser's, I dont care for the big action's or long bolt throws. I am not that familiar with the newer ones so I cant say. Just my opinion for what its worth.

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, December 28, 1998 at 19:23:36 (EST) 



Torf,
I never met a rifle I didnt like, but I havent met Mr Cacarno yet.

The best thing about the Short Action Remington is the short bolt throw, and the abiltiy to work the bolt without losing the sight picture.

The best feature about the Winchester is the location and sweep of the bolt handle for rapid fire. It is almost as good as the N0 4 Enfield in this regard.

The best feature of the N0 4 Enfield is the location of the bolt and the 10 round magazine.

The best feature of the M39 Nagant (sniper version) is the way it can be checked for scope zero without firing a shot by comparing the iron sight picture with the scope sight picture.

The best feature of the M96 Swede is the cartridge that it fires. But Torf, dont you think the Swede would have been even better if it was upgraded to a M98 action?

There are lots of good things to say about the Mauser 98 action but we have covered that ground before...

The point of all this, I guess is that there are people who know how to design a good sniper rifle and there are lots of proven good design features that one could borrow from one country or another. Why then is the Greatest Country on earth, the one that put a man on the moon in the late 60's making their rifles up out of Sporting rifles, with aftermarket products, instead of a no compromise design? Anyone care to answer that?

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio USA - Monday, December 28, 1998 at 21:23:31 (EST) 


TorF, I'm a model 70 fan. I like the idea of being able to strip the bolt and replace parts without tools. Bolts freeze and just getting the firing pin assy. out is a good option. Pat said you have to do alot of work to a model 70 to make them shoot...maybe Paul will have something to say about that???

What action would I use? the one I did, the model 70 classic short action. I would like to get a Dumolin (sp?) 98' kurz action in double square bridge and mill the mounts into that but they are way to expensive for me right now. several companies make 98' actions in different lengths from .223 to .505 so being stuck with the longer bolt throw of the 8mm on a .308 rifle is a problem of the past.

for those thinking of ordering one, my McMillan A3 was delivered four months to the day after I ordered it. I think it's worth it but take the wait into account and don't blame your smith because the stock ain't there yet.
Rich <dick2@clarkston.com>
WA USA - Monday, December 28, 1998 at 21:44:50 (EST) 



TorF, Re : Rem vs Others, Sure I would love to have a Blaser !!! how many Rem 700's can I buy and upgrade vs ONE Blaser ?? I have a Ruger(sorry Russ !) that has been through the grind for 10 yrs now, but with a new Douglas Barrel and Devconning (pillar and bedding)the synthetic stock it is great. Never had a problem, just wish I could find a laminate stock for it. Ditto for my Rem 700 V like Jeff said followed Hook's work and had it Devcon bedded and pillared, shoots better than I can !!

As for the Blaser.....who can afford to work with one ?? Sure it would be great if Rem would make integral mounts like Ruger, then you have to use rings like Burris or Jewell makes that allow for angling.... no easy solution. Have many friends that swear by pre'64 Win but for some strange reason shoot Rem.'s in competition !! Figure that out !! Looks like I will continue with the Rem until Blaser are a bit more affordable ! Then again, its not always the equipment but the man behind the trigger !!
OUT HERE !!
Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
USA - Monday, December 28, 1998 at 23:35:28 (EST) 



Rich, "maybe Paul will have something to say about that??? "
Not sure I wanna' but...

I have, currently, four 40X's, and two PSS's… so I have nothing against Remingtons.

I also have one Win M70/Sharpshooter (Schnieder BBl, and McMillen A2 stock),
Two M70/V's in .308 (just bought the second), a M70/V in .223, (all "push feeds")
and a Classic Featherweight (claw extractor) in .270, so I have nothing against Winchesters...

They all shoot well, the M70/Sharpshooter will match the 40-X/.308 all day long.
And the M70/V's will match the PSS's as well, accuracy is not the issue.

Other than cosmetics, the Remington PSS, the Remington Varmint Special, and
The Winchester M70/Varmint are all equal... they have factory BBLs, H-S stocks,
and shoot better than they should for the money... they will all hold around +/- ½"
with a good scope and mounts, and match ammo, or good handloads.

But there are differences that are worth noting.

The M70 barrel is bigger at the muzzel by about .08", and is a straight taper from the receiver
To the muzzel...
The Remington PSS, and VS drops it's diameter quickly after the chamber, and then tapers
to a smaller muzzel. The net difference is the Win BBL weighs 1 ½ pounds more than the
Rem PSS/VS series, and the weight is out front where you want it.

The bolt can be dissembled, and firing pin assembly can be removed by my 6 year old...
to remove the pin from any Remington 700 series requires a special tool, and even then,
it's a pain in the tail.
If you drop the bolt in the sand (or pierce a primer), you'll appreciate this to no end.

The recoil lug on the Remington is a stamped plate like a thick washer, which is held in
place by the BBL after it's screwed in… if you change the BBL, the recoil lug will not
be in the same place again. If you are going to replace a BBL on a 700, it is suggested
that you fit a heavier plate, and have it pinned in place… some gunsmiths will "Pin" the
lug in place by drilling the action and lug plate, and fit them together permanently… sorta'.
The Winchester's recoil lug is much heavier, and is a machined section of the action, it's
one piece.

But my favorite difference is the magazine boxes. The Remington's magazine box for .308
is right to the limits of space in the action. The Winchester "short" action was designed
recently, and they have had the advantage of learning from Remington's errors… the M70
action in .308 is slightly longer, and the magazine box has a filler in the back that can be
removed. My smith charges $30 to remove the filler, silver solder the face plate from the
filler to the back of the magazine box, and trim the bolt stop. This allows feeding longer
handloads (up to 3.1") allowing me to seat to the leade, and still use the magazine.
Can't do this with the Remington 700 series... you would have to build the gun on the 700-LA,
And then you'd have too much space... about 3.5"

These differences might be important to some, and just be academic chatter to others...
If you have one and are happy with it, don't sell it to get the other... shoot the hell out of it!

Paul "Pablito" Coburn.

Paul Coburn <condor@mags.net>
CT USA - Monday, December 28, 1998 at 23:58:43 (EST) 



To Pat, re. Rem700:

I just think there are better actions out there for military sniping. There are also better actions for match-shooting.

The 700 is good enough for most of us but I'm always looking for a better mousetrap :-)

I use Anschutz rifles for .22 competition. I just wish centerfire rifles could be made with the same quality and insight to what is needed by the marksman.

To Steve, re. M96/M98:

Ofcource the M98 is better. My point was that even the old M94/M41 is extremely hard to beat as a sniperrifle. I've used M98-based sniperrifles in the Norwegian army. They're rugged.

To Will, re. Blaser vs. M700.

Cost is relative. I don't live in US. The pricedifference between a 700VS and a comparable Blaser R93 synthetic is $200 in Norway.

That said I also don't think of the Blaser as a military sniper. It's got more small parts than a swiss watch. It's the concept I like. It doesn't have a conventional action and it is a component rifle that let the shooter mix and match parts and configurations himself. No need for gunsmiths. The closest US rifle would be a barrel blockbedded Wichita shellholderaction converted to pushfeed and a magazene:-)
TorF
Oslo, Norway - Tuesday, December 29, 1998 at 07:19:28 (EST) 



Torf,

I go along your lines when it comes to the Mauser Action, I have build several "Sniper" rifles with this action using Walther, Heym, or Delcour Barrels. And from my own test´s the 98 Action is a bitch to blow up. As long as there is a good stock of old 98 actions around I would adopt one of those for our European theatre any time over a Rem 700. The newer European tactical rifles on the block are the definite winner when compared to the old Rem 700, but you have to consider what the designers were looking for when they made the 700.

The price diffrence here in Germany is se same as you mentioned, so a Blaser, Sauer or even a Mauser 86SR is cheaper than a TBA, or Chandler, M24/M40 and shoot as good without all the fuss and give a lot better creature comforts.

Ed,

power to you, we are now getting the new AWF .300 WinMag as the snipers weapon with a system price of 70.000 DM / 40.000 $. And they issue the H&K G 36 as a team support weapon. Wether or not they will ad the HK 40 mm Granatpistole/Blooper to the package is still up for grabs. The G36 with its dual sights red dot and BDC/Sheperd reticle will make hits out to 500 Meters when the wind is not to bad.

"Ende"
Torsten <lasercon@dialup.globe.de>
G3ermany - Tuesday, December 29, 1998 at 10:10:47 (EST) 



To: TorF! Thank you for stirring the pot regarding Remington actions!
I have felt like doing that for a long time. The Rem. is liked by the
gunsmithing establishment in North America because they need a lot of work. My gunsmith - who was not trained over here - tell me that the
Remington action is easy to work on, and that it for many gunsmiths is the only one they are skilled enough to try. Nobody can dispute that a Mauser action have a lot of good features, especially for a shooter that does not live next door to their gunsmith and have to live unsupported. I like the large extractor of the Mauser and the classic Winchester. I know of at least two cases where visiting American hunters, armed with Remington rifles, under stress short stroked their actions while reloading. This meant a jammed rifle as a large coastal grizzly was charging. Both hunters were "saved" by somebody backing them up with another rifle.

I wonder if anybody else has tried the Tikka M595 Varmint or Target rifle in .308. They have a very stiff action, smooth feeding, rail type scopebases milled into the receiver, good scope mounts, clip magazine, good trigger, and a 26" heavy barrel. They will shoot around 1/2" all day when fed a good load. The action looks a little bit like a "baby" TRG-21. This action mated to a McMillan stock might be a very nice rig.

I guess, TorF, that we now have the 1999 argument started!
Hans <vasa@hhcn.prn.bc.ca>
B.C., CANADA - Tuesday, December 29, 1998 at 21:19:10 (EST) 



Mauser and Classic M70 extractors give me a confident feeling that I'll be able to get the case out whatever happens. 7.62NATO ammo is not the same as .308win. I wish you could talk to the Norwegian Remington-importer. Don't even try to get the extractor replaced on warrenty on a .308-rifle. You get the following answer "You've been shooting Raufoss military ammo, get out!" It's a common problem, and it is the Raufoss military ammo we have to rely on in a crisis. The Raufoss ammo is loaded to a very high pressure, almoast a civilian overload, in stiff brass to give 110% relieability in G3's and MG3's in very lo temperatures. The Rem700 was not even in contention due to this problem when the Norwegian Army aquired a new sniperrifle a decade ago.

TorF
Oslo, Norway - Wednesday, December 30, 1998 at 13:54:48 (EST) 


I am new to long range/varmit shooting. I am looking at a Rem .223 PSS to start with. I would like to use the UARS stock by Remington or the Stock that Plaster designed. I am 6'5" and like the idea of stock adjustments.
Were can I purchase the heavy "26 barrel and action, but not the H-S stock?

In the future I would like to move up to a .308. Is it hard to convert? I know that both calibers use the short action, is it easier/cheaper to convert or purchase a new rifle when the time comes?

Tony <abasanese@goisd.k12.mi.us>
MI, USA - Thursday, February 25, 1999 at 22:45:23 (ZULU) 


Tony: Check Brownell's catalog for barrelled actions. At one time, I beleive they offered the equivalent or near equivalent of a barrel in Rem. varmint contour. It was referred to as a "5.5" contour. If memory serves (and that's alwaqys a big "if") there may also be a cryoed(sp?) version of same. Don't have a catalog w/ me to check this. I'll try to find mine at home.

Jeff A.
Jeff A. <d1k2l3@aol.com>
Smyrna, Ga., USA - Friday, February 26, 1999 at 00:02:37 (ZULU) 


Do Remington PSS rifles have any stampings on the barrel that identify the PSS as something different than a regular Remington, or are the stampings the usual caliber and company name and address? I've located a rifle that I suspect is one of the police rifles. It has a very wide forend with two swivel stud holes,(but no swivel studs!), a wundhammer type wrist swell, the metal has a flat black finish, including the bolt, but I cannot locate any identification on the rifle that would label it as a PSS. The gun is on a used rack, so the only ID is a hand-written tag with company name and caliber on it. Any ideas out there?
joe
USA - Saturday, February 27, 1999 at 02:41:00 (ZULU) 
Joe...
That is a PSS. Current ones are standard Rem heavy barrelled 700's with a black matte finish, and the stock you discribed. Used and clean, it should be worth about $550-600 without glass.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, February 27, 1999 at 02:55:18 (ZULU) 
Joe
On the question of PSS markings. The one I had came with just caliber stamped on it and a couple of odd markings up by the breech. None of the disclaimers or usual stuff you see on the VS barrels. And the crown was different than a VS barrel I had. Does this help?
Todd <duckman@eznet.net>
Andover, NY, USA - Saturday, February 27, 1999 at 14:14:05 (ZULU) 
I put up a previous post looking for a Rem 700 action with a 26" heavy barrel in .223. So far I have had little luck in locating these items. I did recieve some info regarding the Rem 700 VS in .223. Most of the comments were along the lines of buy the rifle and throw away the stock, also the price of the rifle will be in the $500 range. As I have surfed the internet the prices I have come across are in the $700 range.

I thought that the Rem 700 was one of the most popular actions at the entry level. Does anyone know why Remington does not sell this action barrel combo? Also they do not even list the PSS on their web page?

Anyone have any suggestions of were I can look for the barreled action or the rifle itself?

Tony <abasanese@goisd.k12.mi.us>
MI, USA - Saturday, February 27, 1999 at 17:09:54 (ZULU) 


To Tony:If you buy a new Rem 700 VS, I'll take that no good stock off your hands and give you $50 for it, o.k.? Just to show you what kind of guy I am, I'll even pick up the shipping charges.

E-mail me and let me know what you decide.
Jeff Babineau <j.babineau@ns.sympatico.ca>
Truro, N.S., Canada - Saturday, February 27, 1999 at 20:15:08 (ZULU) 


Tony, try Brownells for that VS barreled action (515) 623 4000 Also, get a copy of Gunlist and Shotgun news, there are a few outfits that advertize bare actions in the $300-400 range.

The PSS is not on the web site or in their catalog because they do not intend it for civilian sales. To order a PSS from the factory you must document that you are suppling firearms to police agencies. Now they are all over because there are no federal restrictions on the police suppliers selling them to anyone. Remmy does the same thing on their "police" style shotguns. it's CYA on their part like the heavy triggers, they don't want to be seen as selling "rifles of death" to "simple civilians" as bill ruger put it.

Rich <dick2@clarkston.com>
USA - Saturday, February 27, 1999 at 20:22:00 (ZULU) 


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