Sniper Country Duty Roster collective wisdom


Remington factory triggers:


Hey out there I just have a simple question that Im sure one of you shooting geniuses out there will know right off. I shoot a stock Rem. 700 VS in .308, the trigger out of the box sucks. My AR's have as good. It almost seems as if it is a single stage trigger, is this the case? Can I adjust the lengh of pull to get a true
.308 gunner <CGarr23113@aol.com>
somewhere, Ca USA - Thursday, January 07, 1999 at 21:21:51 (EST) 


In addition to previous message. Can I adjust this trigger myself with my somewhat average gunsmithing skills to be a true "two stage" trigger? If so what is the procedure and what is requirded? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
.308 gunner <CGarr23113@aol.com>
somewhere, Ca USA - Thursday, January 07, 1999 at 21:28:23 (EST) 
308 Gunner - The Rem factory trigger ISN"T intended to be a 2-stage setup. Sure you can give it more creep, but why ??? Take barrel out of stock....get some spray carburetor cleaner or "Gun Scrub" and hose down the trigger assembly !! Make sure the trigger is in a position to drain. Then use some synthetic oil like "Militec" or your favorite flavor and LIGHTLY lube the trigger !!! You can adjust the creep and weight but be aware if you do then the warranty is voided, thats why they have the lacquer over the screws !!! You could dis-assemble the trigger but thats a real pain in the *ss. If you have the money to spare.....buy a "Timney" or "Canjar"...good to go !!

Will <willadams@mindspring.com>
Awake in, AL USA - Friday, January 08, 1999 at 04:14:26 (EST) 


308 Gunner:

The Remington is a single stage trigger as it comes from the factory. There are two, 2 stage trigger systems out on the market that fit the 700 actions with little work. The first is the Jewell this is a great unit that simulates the action of a 2 stage trigger. They are around $250.00 and have a safety.

The other unit is the Medisha. This is a true 2 stage trigger but has no provision for a safety. A Winchester M-70 style safety can be fitted to the rifle's bolt at around $200.00. The trigger sells for around $350.00. This is a great trigger but the expensive way to go.

A factory Warranty Service station for Remington can adjust the trigger and not void the warranty. This is the least expensive way to go but it will still be a single stage trigger.

As for the AR-15 there is good news. Compass Lake Engineering has a two stage unit they install for $80.00. I would not trying to install any of the other 2 stage trigger units unless you have a good understanding of the workings of the AR-15.

Bruce Buell, NCDS
Senior Instructor, IDRC
Bruce Buell <buellncds@mindspring.com>
Jacksonville, FL USA - Friday, January 08, 1999 at 19:37:08 (EST) 


308 I would not trust the factory trigger on a Remington to be used as a two stage. I'll not second guess your reason for wanting it that way. I will only say that a Remington trigger can be adjusted to give just about any kind of single stage pull you would want. It is a job for one who understands the workings of it however. There are many considerations of safety when you do it. Even a gunsmith, unless he knows Remington triggers can foul up the job. There are 3 adjustments on a factory remington trigger. Not to encourage anyone to attempt this on their own! One is the Sear. One is for Overtravel and the other is the spring tension. Too much let of of the spring and the gun is unsafe. Wrong tension on the SEAR and the gun is Very Unsafe.
Overtravel is also very very critical from a safety stand point as it can bind the Sear and cause a real surprise! IF you have a gunsmith adjust your trigger... When you get it back remove any load and put the barrel on a pad to protect the muzzle from the floor. Safety off. Cock the bolt and close it briskly by slamming the bolt forward (no empty case in the gun either). Don't overdo the slamming as it can damage the bolt face or chamber lock up lugs. But be sure that the firing pin does not fall. IF it does your gun is unsafe. If the pull is properly adjusted you will not feel any travel beyond the moment you actually pull the trigger causeing the pin to fall.
If if fails these tests take it back! The pull should be 2 to 5 lbs depending on what you specify and the particular action you have.
This is a good test on any rifle. Another good test on Savage or Winchester is to put the gun on half Safe position and pull the trigger (no round in it of course) The firing pin should not fall. Then without opening the bolt put it to the fire position. If the firing pins falls you have a death trap! Also be sure that all the screws have been lock tite protected or glued to keep them from moving and then... Never trust the safety on a bolt gun! When not in immediate need of shooting just raise the handle on the bolt! The safety can also be on for a double protection.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, January 09, 1999 at 01:14:59 (EST) 
308. The facfory Remington trigger can be adjusted , but very carefully to a crispy and snappy 3 1/2 pounds. Any lighter you are starting to talk about a trigger such as a Timney, Canjar, or a pricey little number called a Jewell trigger. Follow the instructions to the letter of B. Rogers. The explanation is excellent simply excellent.

Al Ostapowicz <aaostapowicz@worldnet.att.net>
Taking a Chill Pill here in the Sunny Chill of Northern , O-Hi-Er USA - Sunday, January 10, 1999 at 21:06:40 (EST) 


I've been having trouble lately with consistency of my trigger. I have a stock Remington 700 trigger (On my short action .308 Remington 700) that has been worked down to 40oz. The trigger surfaces were stoned and trued with the sear surfaces as well. I've checked and rechecked the set screws, they haven't moved (I marked them with finger nail polish to check). My trigger breaks anywhere between 38oz and 44oz.

What I would like, is a 2.5 pound trigger (40oz) that stays CONSISTENT pull after pull. I also insist on not removing the safety from the rifle.

I'm suprised how little information I could find via the web on triggers. Very few prices were given and even less opinion. Specific features were not given (ie. 1.5-3 lb with safety). So what retailers and manufactures would have you do is guess at model numbers and hope you guessed right. I am so glad to have this forum to ask questions and discuss these things.

I've spoken with several high power guys that have thrown out several big names. Jewell, Shilen, and Timney. These are familiar names but I'd like to hear what people's experiences have been with them. I've heard Jewell's are the nicest of the bunch (until the bill arrives).

I'd like to hear about how this group selected an aftermarket trigger for their rifles. Thanks!
Zero <zero@ntr.net>
Louisville, KY, USA - Friday, February 05, 1999 at 16:01:20 (ZULU) 


Zero,
You must have a pretty good finger to tell the difference between a few ounces of pull(HA). I have shot the Jewell and if I ever go to and aftermarket trigger it will be a Jewell. Your right they are "Pricey" but I think well worth the bucks according to the guys who have them.

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, February 05, 1999 at 17:08:55 (ZULU) 


Zero; May I inquire what is your shooting purpose/interest?
There are those of us who would kill the fatted calf for a trigger that is as consistant as 38 to 44 oz. May I offer some advice of a shooter that has pulled a few triggers? No I won't till I hear your answer to the question if you care to delve into it.
B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Friday, February 05, 1999 at 17:19:11 (ZULU) 
B Rogers:

In reality I'll be using this rifle for entertainment, as I am not a police or military sniper. I enjoy firearms in general, they're nice little machines. I see getting my trigger as consistent as possible as one more step in making the machine perfect. I use this rifle to take shots from 200-700 yards currently. If I can get an edge by finding a better trigger, I'm willing to save my money and invest. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming my misses on a trigger flaw, I would just like to know that if I miss it is certainly my fault. :) Thanks for the responses.

Another quick note: I'm sure many of you have noticed something about a rifle that bugs you. Until you are able to work out that issue, it's very hard psychologically to overcome this flaw and rise above it. Thats how I've started to feel about my trigger.
Zero <zero@ntr.net>
Louisville, KY, USA - Friday, February 05, 1999 at 18:08:18 (ZULU) 


Zero; Your "use" is a one where often the experimentation toward perfection is almost always pursued to greater extent that the practical application calls for. I have no problem with that at all.
Trigger pull is something that is learned from a lot of shooting for a long time. It is desirable not to have any surprises but it is also good to develop a tolerance if you will for imperfection in riflery due to the fact that temperature, weather and grit are sometimes things that change without notice. Ok let me put it this way. The more I shot the less the trigger mattered. I have seen a tendency for shooters to over emphasize the importance of a light hair trigger (not that 2.5 lbs is a hair trigger). One's trigger finger becomes more conditioned as experience is obtained. This is hard to nail down in words. One test I've decided over my own experience goes something like this. If you set your trigger in the shop and then find that it feels much harder when you get to the range.... it is your own anticipation of the shot that is causing it and that is what needs to be overcome. I'll leave it at that. Thanks for helping me think about the subject. Carry on your doing fine!

B.Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Friday, February 05, 1999 at 19:17:38 (ZULU) 


Zero - You might check and see if there is any play in the sear and trigger bearings. If the parts are moving around, that could cause the engagement to shift and result in an inconsistant trigger pull. If it's a side-to-side play, you can try to find some thin washers to shim the part and reduce it. (I did this on a S&W revolver and a Ruger 77/22, Brownell's had the shims.) But if it's just loose fit between parts, then a new trigger set is all you can do to fix it.
Grasshopper <wd6cmu@netcom.com>
Richmond, CA, USA - Friday, February 05, 1999 at 19:40:08 (ZULU)  
Zero,
I have played with trying to determine the exact weight of the trigger on my 700 and I finally decided that it is difficult to duplicate the exact test 2 times in a row. For instance, if the thing you place on the trigger varies in location from one test to the next by even a little bit, the trigger will fire sooner or later. As you move the bar closer to the bottom of the shoe, leverage is increased and the pull will be lighter. also If you are lifting the rifle differently and changing the vertical position of the barrel you can get different readings. Also, the way that you pick up the rifle can influence when the trigger trips. I'd be more inclined to believe that the variation that you are getting lies more with your test methods that exists in the trigger.

Steve <nato@bright.net>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Saturday, February 06, 1999 at 00:30:12 (ZULU)  


Good Evening Guys,
Need a little help here... Spend all day at the range breaking
in my new Remington 700P and getting used to the Nightforce
scope.
Did all the breakin by the book with Sweets 7.62, and a little more. Retorqued the receiver bolts after 25 rnds.
Took the weapon down after 50 rnds, cleaned completely,
checked for any pattern of movement between the receiver
and aluminum stock bedding. Reassembled and torqued to
65 inch pounds. Shot group at this point started to tighten up.
Was breaking in with 150gr British NATO 7.62 that seemed
hotter than hell, but a case of 350 was cheep, and it fired
fairly consistantly. Ended up the day with 85 rnds fired, and
now seemed to be holding 0.5 MOA.
The problem I have is that the 700 trigger feels like it is about
8 LB, and it does not feel consistant. Sometimes had to pull
hard enough to change the vertical line of the weapon. My
Buddie / instructor also tried the weapon, and had a problem with
the trigger pull. I tried all kinds of positions with my finger to get
around the problem for the day..
I had contacted Remington last week and requested a manual on
the weapon, but was told that due to the liability, a manual was not
available. I have also been told that if the trigger is adjusted, the
warrenty on the weapon will be voided. If necessary, I will get a
good match trigger and replace the stock trigger with it, placing
the stock trigger assembly in a plastic bag to stick back on if
I ever need to use my warrenty. But for this weapon to be
consistantly accurate, the trigger problem has to go. Any Idea's...

By the way, At first I thought that I was pulling the shots, and that
I was the problem, but I was handed a Rugar M77, 6mmPPC,
that my partner had, and this weapon has always fired perfect
0.3-0.4 MOA patterns. I shot two 0.3 perfect triangles at 100 mtr.
so it was not me jerking the shots off on the 700. Love my new
Remington, but that trigger has to go.. Help......

Thor <Charlie01M@aol.com>
Conyers, Georgia, USA - Sunday, February 07, 1999 at 06:40:49 (ZULU) 


Thor.
The Rem trigger can be brought down to 20 to 24 oz's easely, and adjusted to break clean and crisp... I've done about eleventeen hundred for myself and friends over the past 30 years. Rem has has lost some outragious law suits in the past 10 years, and as a small business man, I can understand their position.
But consider this... most problems show up right away... rough
chambers, feeding problems... etc. While you're breaking in
the rifle, look at the fired cases for signs for tool marks,
burrs etc. After about 200 rounds you should have seen any flaw
show up.

Then you can decide whether to go ahead and adjust the trigger. The chances of something showing up after 200 rounds are nill. Then, you can go with a jewel trgger (at around $200) or adjust the trigger yourself.

Also consider this... Remington has gotten rid of most of their skilled repair gunsmiths, and no longer does about 80% of the repairs that are sent to Illion, NY. They have a triage system... the gun comes in, and is sent out to an "Authorized" repair station, who does the work (sometimes badly) and you get it back from them. You send it to Rem, you get it back from Podunk. So if you aren't going to get Rem work, don't send it to them. Send it to an "authorized" repair shop, and the shop doesn't give a rats ass about the trigger pull, will fix your problem, and bill Remington... so you can adjust your trigger, and have warrantee protection at the same time.
Pablito
USA - Sunday, February 07, 1999 at 12:23:55 (ZULU) 


Thor,

The Remington factory trigger setting is not dictated by the shooter, or common sense, but by the lawyers and the outcome of civil trials. My PSS came with an 8 1/2 pound trigger. That amount of a trigger pull does not make sense to me for a sniper grade weapon. I did not send it to Remington, as I wanted it back sometime this century. Just use a competent gunsmith. They should be able to adjust the trigger, and have it back to you shortly. Mine took about 4 hours. It is now at 3 pounds and shoots great.

Randy Stoddard <onesht1kil@yahoo.com>
PC, Oklahoma, USA - Sunday, February 07, 1999 at 14:30:28 (ZULU) 


Have been doing just what you said. Before I took weapon to
range, broke weapon down for inspection. The magizine follower
looked like someone had chewed on it, lots of sharp edges and
burrs. Belt sander and buffing wheel took care of the probable
causes of feed malfunctions due to this. we inspected each casing
right after firing, and again last night over a cup of coffee.
Completely broke weapon down last night for cleaning and
inspection again. Trigger is the only thing that I have found so
far. Will attempt to get it adjusted locally, and if it is still a problem,
Then a Jewell is going in. Luckily money is not an issue on this
project, as getting back into serious precision and tactical shooting
is my number one project for me.
I was somwhat suprized at the small area of threads Remington
uses for the receiver mount bolts. I am used to working with the
Mauser large ring actions for my high power rifles, and they
have enough thread area to bolt down a tank. It almost looks
like Remington has gone for simplicity in manufacturing verses
reliability in this area.

Thor
Thor <Charlie01M@aol.com>
Conyers, Georgia, USA - Sunday, February 07, 1999 at 15:02:02 (ZULU) 


Details, details, details. Scott, it looks like you need to do a whole section on Rem 700's in the tips and tactics.
I now have a 270, 7mm and 300mag Sendero, a PSS and a Model 7. I want to get all the triggers set at the same pull. Due to an injury to my trigger finger, that will be about 3 1/2 pounds. Obviously can't afford to replace all triggers with Jewells. My gunsmith says no problem, he can set them all to the same weight.
Remington says it will void the warranty on the rifle? What is there to warrant on a bolt gun other than the trigger assembly or the bolt? If the bolt goes bad, just send the bolt back. If the trigger assy goes bad, why send it back when you'll be getting the same crappy assy back? The only things left to warrant are the receiver and the barrel. In a warranty situation, what would you be looking for Rem to do to the receiver and barrel?
Bolt <mbolt34547@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, February 07, 1999 at 15:36:59 (ZULU) 
To all you wondering about Remington and other factory triggers. The companies have all set the trigger weigt high and said don't adjust for liability reasons. L.E. snipers have a problem because if they adjust the trigger an argument for the dead bad guys laywer can be made, unless it is done at a repair station. They will adjust for L.E. but not for civillan shooters. Now if you don't care about the liability get your local smith to adjust, or but an aftermarket trigger and let the company assume the liability. Mike
MikeM <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif, USA - Sunday, February 07, 1999 at 21:29:40 (ZULU) 

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