Sniper Country Duty Roster collective wisdom
Sarge has been lurking in the background for awhile
and decides to take a shot:
Well I'm SURE we've kicked this subject around more than once but
it's one that keeps coming up in discussions with others and I feel it's
worth talking about from time to time. What method do you'all use to clean
your weapons? Which "chemicals"? Rods, brushes, slotted vs jag etc. etc.
etc. And then the 64,000 dollar question - how clean is clean?? This ought
to keep things lively for a bit! Looking forward to some good discussion!
Back in his hide Sarge anticipates incoming!
Area 51, NM USA - Monday, October 26, 1998 at 00:14:08 (EST)
This is probably one of the most asked and talked about questions
in shooting esp. if you have put a lot of money into a barrel. Like most
shooter's, in my early days, I didn't give it much thought, a cheap Otters
cleaning kit and a bottle of Hoppes and I was in business, not any more.
I have put to much money into barrel's and I want them to shoot well and
last a long time. To answer your question I use Hoppes, Sweets 7.62, and
sometimes shooter's choice. I have a Dewey one piece rod and I use Pro
shot brass core brush's and pro shot patches. My cleaning procedure is
to use Hoppes and Sweets togeather or shooters choice by itself. I run
3 wet patches of Hoppes and then I will brush. After brushing I again run
Hoppes through the barrel until the patch is free of carbon (black). I
will then dry the barrel with a couple of patches and then start with the
sweets 7.62 this will remove the copper. I run Sweet's through it until
I see no blue on the patch and then I dry the barrel and run a patch of
Hoppes through it to remove any of the Sweets left and then dry patch it
another 3 to 4 times now my barrel is clean. You also need to use a good
bore guide and clean from the action not the muzzle. On some of my stock
rifles I will use JBs paste after every 100 to 200 rounds since they tend
to foul more than the after market barrels. There is no magic cures only
hard work to keep your rifle's clean, the more you shoot them the more
you clean them. Just my thought's on cleaning for what there worth!!
USA - Monday, October 26, 1998 at 10:04:39 (EST)
Cleaning: I use a one piece rod, would prefer coated, but have not
found one that has not begun to shed the coating after coming in contact
with solvent. Solvents are Shootes Choice and Sweets 7.62. I clean until
patches some out clean. Anyone have experience with the pocket cleaning
kits that Dillon is selling. I think they are calling them Tactical Kits.
They seem like a good/small system to take into the field.
Laszlo Markos <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Round Rock, TX USA - Monday, October 26, 1998 at 11:43:40 (EST)
Check out the Dewy coated rod it's impevious to solvent. It's Teflon
coated and works great.
USA - Monday, October 26, 1998 at 12:50:34 (EST)
On Rods: Dewey Rod's are excellent. I have yet to see one affected
by solvents. They will be affected by stupidity. In other words, use a
bore guide! Otherwise you'll strip the coating right off.
USA - Monday, October 26, 1998 at 14:54:11 (EST)
The first thing I do to a gun is firelap the barrel with a NECO
kit. I fire a minimum of 60 shots to polish the bore and clean with JB
bore paste every 5 shots. Yes the first time at the range with the new
barrel is a long one. After that, I only use molly-coated bullets. I will
clean after about 500 rounds usually longer. I NEVER use a brush on my
bore. What I do use is a brass jag that I turned down a few thousandths.
Seems that I got lucky with the barrels on my rifles, I can not HAMMER
a wet patch through a clean barrel while using a stock jag. My cleaning
procedure is to wet and dry patch the barrel with KROIL penetrating oil
until I get very little residue on the patch, then ten passes with JB and
two wet and dry patches. I repeat this once, then I give the throat about
ten or fifteen passae with JB followed by wet and dry patches until I get
no residue. I have not had a shift in zero using molly in a clean barrel,
but I have noticed that I get a higher X-count with a dirtier barrel.
steve Uhall <email@example.com>
greensburg, Pa USA - Monday, October 26, 1998 at 15:02:41 (EST)
Re: Stupidity and cleaning rods
>"Snipped…."They will be affected by stupidity"……. Snipped again
In my early years I once left a Dewey or Parker Hale .22 caliber
rod in a hot barrel with hot Hoppe's solvent. That was the end of that
coating, right now. Also, earlier in the Dewey cleaning rod history ('70s
& '80s) they used a red coating that was not very durable. It would
soften up, get loose, and bunch up on the rod. I still have a couple that
I've dismantled for parts. I think capillary action pulled cleaning solvent
under the coating.
I've had to rework a few handles to get them to work smoothly. There
is a certain radius inside the handles that would cause the little loose
balls to bind up instead of rolling smoothly. They worked fine with a brush,
but a patch would just skid through without following the rifling.
Anyone ever heard of blueprinting cleaning rods? But at about $20.00
a pop, they are worth fixing to one's satisfaction. Lots of time went into
making a special tool to remove the split nut(??) on the handle.
That is about all I know on the subject.
Ron N. <firstname.lastname@example.org>
USA - Monday, October 26, 1998 at 15:44:05 (EST)
After shooting fifteen or so shots I clean a general barrel cleaning,
the first couple of passes I'll use something like hoppes or mil spec to
break up the powder fouling, then Shooters to get after any coppermines
that show up. I don't use moly, but may someday, so I have to chase copper
every time. My recipe for Shooters is to use straight, run wet patch or
two thru, let set for a few minutes then patch untill dry. Repeat as neccassary.
Last I wet and dry patch with hoppes gun oil just to push the shooters
out before I fire again. It does pay to look at patches carefully. The
shooters really brings out the copper in your riflings (caused, I suspect,
by a rough bore).
Gun Pictures <email@example.com>
Somewhere, Ny USA - Monday, October 26, 1998 at 22:07:23 (EST)
OK here is my procedure - bore guide - a MTM or something like that
but it protects the action. Don't remember who makes my rod but it isn't
a Dewey or anything than fancy (yet). After a range session - USUALLY no
more than 50 rounds, we're talking .308's here - wet Hoppes patch on a
brass jag through once then Hoppes on a bronze brush (.45 caliber)(these
are factory barrels and guns) making 10 to 15 passes. Then start dry patches,
all patches are GI spec for .45 caliber and above making a very tight fit,
using that same brass jag. As many patches as necessary to come clean and
dry. Then Sweets on one patch let soak in barrel for 5 minutes then patches
til clean, dry and no blue. NOW here is a real interesting question for
those that use brushes - after getting the barrel "clean" ie no carbon
build up on a patch - have you ever run the brush through again then start
dry patches again and see what happens??? Tell you what happens in my barrels
- more times than not I need to keep going with more patches - they come
out dirty after using the brush again! Hence my previous question - How
clean is clean???
Area 51, NM USA - Monday, October 26, 1998 at 22:40:30 (EST)
Do you clean your bore brushes between uses? I found that cleaning
the brushes with acetone or isopropyl alcohol and letting them air dry
on a paper towel helped to cut some of the "re-slop the bore" down. Isn't
the phosphor bronze in conventional brushes susceptible to being dissolved
by strong ammonia solvents like Sweets, CR-10, Copper Out etc. etc.?
For what its worth, I run two Shooters Choice soaked patches through
the bore, wait five minutes (unless barrels hot), two Dry patches, solvent
soaked brush from chamber to muzzle only 10 times, patch clean. Then if
I suspect copper fouling JB bore or S-C Copper remover and patch clean
followed by oiled patch for storage.
P.S. Don't dip your brushes in solvent bottle or can.
Big City, ByGawd USA - Tuesday, October 27, 1998 at 08:37:44 (EST)
On cleaning: a shooter once suggested using toilet paper as a final
step in cleaning a barrel. I take 3 squares of soft toilet tissue (Charmin)
and roll it around a jag. I guide it through the bore guide and then push
it through the barrel. Apparently, the toilet paper is softer and deforms
more than a patch, and it really gets the last bit of fouling and powder
out of the grooves. This method gets out additional fouling when I think
the barrel is already clean. Has anyone else tried this?
Bach Melick <firstname.lastname@example.org>
New Orleans, LA USA - Tuesday, October 27, 1998 at 13:24:00 (EST)
Sarge - You must have been reading my mind, because I've been reading
Duty Roster for a while now, and was going to ask the same questions about
cleaning! I use Hoppe's, and then Shooters Choice. I'll scrub with a brush
about once for every shot fired, and then go into the wet patch/dry patch
sequence. My problem is that the first dry patch through the next day comes
out with blue streaks! I also have experienced a black patch coming out
after one pass with the brush down a barrel I thought was clean. I thought
the brush was depositing something on the barrel. My questions for the
How long does it take you guys to get clean patches? I get a pretty
good pile of patches built up and can quit after about 30 minutes.
What's a good way to clean the inside of the action? I've got a Rem
700 in .30-06. Thanks for your help.
PS - No, I didn't break in the barrel. I'm still kind of a rookie.
outside the, beltway USA - Tuesday, October 27, 1998 at 18:33:22 (EST)
To All RE: Bore cleaning.
My .300 Sendero gets REALLY crusty after 20 rounds, so here's my
Soak a patch or two or three in either Hoppe's Benchrest (not Hoppe's
regular no. 9) or Shooter's Choice and get the bore slobbering wet so the
juice runs out of the muzzle and let it soak for 20 minutes or so.
Swab the bore until a dry patch comes out absolutely clean, then
inspect the bore and repeat this process until all color is removed from
rifling grooves. This seems to take a lot of work and time SO,
J-B method: Wrap a clean dry patch around a bronze bore brush and
saturate the patch with J-B paste and scrub the bore a minimum of 30 strokes
( up and back counts as one stroke). Swab the bore with clean dry patches
until one emerges absolutely clean. Inspect the bore and repeat the process
until all color is removed from the bore.
This method seems to take less time and does a thorough job.
Scott (The Other One)
PA USA - Tuesday, October 27, 1998 at 19:13:54 (EST)
Addendum to bore cleaning methods:
These two methods include the use of a cleaning rod guide, and chamber
cleaning is something else again entirely.
Scott (The Other One)
PA USA - Tuesday, October 27, 1998 at 19:20:26 (EST)
Here's another little bore cleaning tip I learned from one of the
veteran 1,000 yard competitors I shoot against:
After a cleaning session and prior to either shooting the rifle
again or swabbing the bore with oil for storage, this shooter runs a patch
down the bore soaked with Zippo lighter fluid. He says this helps clean
any little gunk deposits that may still remain in the bore.
PA USA - Tuesday, October 27, 1998 at 22:07:10 (EST)
I got to thinking today about all the posts regarding cleaning and
my cleaning procedures. Figuring the bore in my fairly new Remington might
be rough as is common in factory barrels, I came to the conclusion that
the patches might be ripping off on the riflings therby leaving small partical
of dirty patches where there is no dirt. This would seem to be true espeacialy
with a scrubbing motion. So I changed my procedure to scrubbing the barrel
out with several wet and dry patches. When I am sure that it was dry of
solvent I take and ran patches thru in one pass only from chamber to muzzle.
This helps to keep the patches from ripping and filling in the riflings
with particles. If the patches wern't reletivly clean after 3 to 4 I went
back with the solvent. Also I wiped my rod and jag after each patch. I
might try some ms moly or neco on a patch at the end of a cleaning session
someday and see if the copper build up is less.
Somewhere, Ny USA - Wednesday, October 28, 1998 at 04:21:29 (EST)
Check out this info on cleaning barrels
Sherwood , AR USA - Wednesday, October 28, 1998 at 17:22:21 (EST)
I had always assumed that the brush left residue in the bbl. Benchresters
will sometimes use a "fouling brush" that places the same material as the
bullet jackets in the bore prior to a session.
Lance M. Johnston <email@example.com>
Jonesville, MI USA - Wednesday, October 28, 1998 at 19:09:59 (EST)
Here's my 2 cents on the barrel clean:
Dewey rod with one-size smaller phospho-bronze brush.
Bore guide. Cotton patches.
1st patch soaked w/ Tetra gun lube, 3-4 passes.
Then, patch w/ JB or Iosso paste.. 10 passes.
Two clean patches to remove bulk of paste.
Soak patch w/ Shooter's Choice and make 8-10 passes.
1-2 dry patches. Then repeat above step w/ Shooter's.
Another 1-2 clean patches.
Soak another patch w/ Shooter's and pass thru bore. Let "stand"
for approx. 10 min.
Another wetted patche w. Shooter's.
2-3 dry patches.
Rinse brush and wipe rod w/ 70% isoproply alcohol.
Run 2 patches soaked w/ Alcohol. Then run several dry patches to
remove all alcohol.
Final 2-3 passes w/ patch with tetra. Store rifle.
Prior to shooting, wet patch of shooter's choice and a couple of
dry patches. Shoot...
I've tried many different regimens. This is the current one.
Jeff A. <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Smyrna, Ga. USA - Wednesday, October 28, 1998 at 19:17:11 (EST)
If you want to spend less time sniffing cleaning solvent (This can
be a good thing also if you are into staying high) and more time shooting,
moly coat those bullets. It will cut you cleaning time considerably.
Al Ostapowicz <email@example.com>
Fixin' to git me that big ol' whitetail in my back yard in that Great
Republic of, Ohio USA - Wednesday, October 28, 1998 at 22:41:17 (EST)
OK, here's my cleaning set up. Found a cleaning line in Cabella's
that has a brass weight with what looks like 550 cord then an imbedded
brass brush in what appears to be some type of floss, the rest of the setup
is suppose to be the equivalent of 160 patches when pulled through barrel
!!! So far it works!!!I use a mix of Shooters Choice and Kroil (couple
of drops)right in front of the brush and pull it through the barrel after
shooting my 30 round strings. Since I moly my bullets this may be overkill.
Once I return to the home AO I run a patch of Militec oil through the barrel.
I do use a bore guide and rod(stainless) and 100% cotton patches
for the oil and also when I use Sweets for the copper fouling.Yep, I do
see copper but it must be REAL heavy to start breaking out the Sweets.
The Shooters Choice does remove some of the copper but not all. As to how
Clean is Clean ??? I usually still have a slight trace of grey (from moly)
but if no blue shows am happy. Sure hopes this adds to the confusion !!!
Somewhere in the South, USA - Thursday, October 29, 1998 at 05:53:18
Having read all the recent posts about cleaning, I have a newbie
question that I'm SURE someone can answer. Situation is this...for all
my toys, I've been taking them to a friends house for cleaning, using just
Hoppes and oil. I take them there because my wife absolutely can't STAND
the smell of Hoppes in our apartment. Open windows don't quite cut it.
I'm in the city, and can't exactly clean them outdoors (really woke up
the neighbors first time I tried that). Truthfully, I don't mind stirring
things up a bit in the neighborhood, but that's for another post :)
Anyway, I've read about Shooters Choice, Sweets, and some others
from you folks. My question is...what would be a good combination of cleaners
that WON'T make the apartment smell like a factory? The Hoppes doesn't
bother me a bit, but for the wife...well, another story. Any ideas?
...back to lurking....
Dan A. <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Erie, PA USA - Thursday, October 29, 1998 at 15:57:25 (EST)
To Dan A. in Erie, PA RE: Gun cleaning fragrances-
There is nothing like the scent of Hoppe's No. 9 wafting on the breeze
on an autumn afternoon!
All seriousness aside, I have yet to find a cleaning agent that doesn't
have SOME smell to it. And that's a good thing! (Usually)
The only fragrance I like better than that of weapon cleaning fluids
is that of beaver castor! No, that is NOT a sexist remark. Trappers will
know what I mean.
PA USA - Thursday, October 29, 1998 at 18:17:35 (EST)
DOESN'T LIKE THE SMELL OF HOPPES? Dan, Dan, Dan... Assuming that
getting rid of the wife isn't an option, I find that MP-7 has a *much*
milder odor and stinks up a room much less, but doesn't clean quite as
well as Hoppes so your cleaning may take a little longer. Prolix is another
in the same category, I would try either one. (I use both for cleaning
up my guns, but then I use smelly stuff like Shooter's Choice or Hoppes
for the bore, as well as Sweets if needed.) Sweets smells like ammonia,
and it is quite strong.
You can read some Prolix propoganda here
and the MP-7 folks have their own website
where you can read all about their stuff. Using one of these for most of
the cleaning (like I do) will at least cut down the odor level.
San Jose, CA USA - Thursday, October 29, 1998 at 18:39:02 (EST)
Have you tried "Remington Bore Cleaner"? What it is, as I understand
it, is an inert earth (dirt) abrasive suspended in gun oil. I believe
you will find it is not offensive to your spouse's delicate olfactory nerves.
Get a nylon brush that fits your bore or one size smaller, wrap
the brush with a patch, soak the patch with the bore cleaner and then work
it back and forth through the barrel, follow with dry patches, finish
with an alcohol soaked patch and then patch until dry. You will still need
to lubricate the barrel before storage and, of course you can always
clean your gun before you leave the range or other site. J B paste or
IOSSO also work well but what would a cleaning session be without all
those glorious smells?
Depity Dave <email@example.com>
Watching the colors of fall in, Magnificent, West Virginia USA - Thursday,
October 29, 1998 at 18:47:46 (EST)
DAN A.....Damn Dan....sounds like ya gotta get rid of the wife.
My wife hates the smell of gun cleaning solutions.....SO, I make it a point
to clean often.....works great when the two of us are having a argument...I
just go get the stuff out of the safe and give her hell. Drives her right
out of the house.
All kidding aside. Go to Walmart and get some stuff that Remington
makes...some kind of environmentally safe paste that has no solvents in
it....I have looked at it in the store, but I have never used it. Don't
know anything about it. you might want to check into it.
by the sea, of confusion USA - Friday, October 30, 1998 at 13:26:03
My, my, my.......so half of you think I should get rid of my Hoppes
hating wife ;) Hmmm...what to do, what to do? OK, seriously, thanks for
the multitude of opinions. Methinks that the MP7 idea bears careful consideration.
If H & K uses it for maintenance work, it can't be all bad. The Remington
cleaner is also food for thought.
Dan A. <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Erie, PA USA - Friday, October 30, 1998 at 15:09:22 (EST)
It's a genetic flaw in women, I don't know of one yet who liks the
smell of Hoppes #9. Go to the Remington Rem Clean with the abrasive in
it. It works fine to scrub out stubborn copper fouling with no foul odor.
USA - Friday, October 30, 1998 at 16:06:55 (EST)
I use a Hoppe's No. 9
Alternate wet and dry patches till they come out v. light grey
Brush 1-2 strokes per shot fired
Alternate wet & dry till ....
Alternate wet and dry patches till they are white, then dry and
run patch with oil down barrel
Use a coated rod and guide
I stack two patches on the jag to make sure they fit tight - it
takes tapping on the rod handle with the palm of my hand to push them down
Then again, what do I know? I haven't shot over 300 yds and use a
Ruger 270 with a factory barrel for deer and a CMP Garand for competition.
OTH I haven't missed the last 12 deer (all up to 200 yds.)
Karl Dahm <Dahm0030@tc.umn.edu>
Here, There Gone - Saturday, October 31, 1998 at 18:41:54 (EST)
I have heard that more guns are worn out from over-cleaning than
from actual shooting and I'm inclined to agree, given the amount of M16s
and various types of machineguns I've cleaned and had cleaned. You know
what works pretty well and is probably 10 times cheaper than all that name
brand stuff? Plain old paint thinner. I get a container that will be deep
enough to totally immerse the brush into when its protruding from the muzzle
on the end of a cleaning rod. This not only rinses the brush between strokes
somewhat but also helps draw solvent into the bore on the upstroke. Scrub
the living s--t out of the bore and follow with wet patches (from fresh
paint thinner). If the patches don't come out absolutely clean, go back
to the paint thinner and brush routine. Someone mentioned that they wipe
the patch in between strokes. I do too. It gets rid of the fuzz that is
invariably deposited. Our bores are all chrome plated so this may not work
as well on plain steel surfaces but when you've just come out of the field
and you've got a short amount of time to get clean patches coming out of
a platoon's worth of weapons, its effective. Often, there is mud and gravel
inside the weapon. It goes right in the shower. Hot water and a toothbrush
gets rid of dirt, etc. Penetrating oil gets rid of water. I've often heard
the pogue-ass armorers (I was one for a while) complain about the shower
not being authorized. Well, is falling into a swamp or stream authorized?
What's the difference? When I clean my POWs I'm always concerned about
cleaning rod flex. Having the rod continuously rub against the side of
the bore will eventually make an egg-shaped hole where a round one was.
That's why I like the Outer's Foul Out unit. It may not be for the benchrest
crowd but it reduces unnecessary cleaning rod movement inside the bore.
The very next gun-thing I buy will be a moly coating kit.
Paul J. Headlee <email@example.com>
Ogden, KS USA - Sunday, November 01, 1998 at 08:08:36 (EST)
Hey Paul: Its nice to hear from you again. I read your post about
cleaning bores with paint thinner. On commercial rifles, would it iaffect
the bluing particularly the highly polished blued custom rifles, or bluing
such as on the Wby Mark V's or the old Colt Sauers. Just curious. I've
never heard of it before, but if you say that it works it might be worth
a try. Thanks.
Al Ostapowicz <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Btween a Rock and Hard Spot in Wonderful, Ohio USA - Sunday, November
01, 1998 at 09:20:54 (EST)
Al O: Yeah, I'd be careful about slopping paint thinner on a finely
finished gun barrel. It doesn't seem to affect the parkerized finish on
military weapons other than to leave a whitish residue that a rubdown with
any oil seems to displace. I've used it on my Browning Buckmark pistol
with it's matte finish with no ill effect. The same goes for my Rem 11-87
SP, my Mossberg 500 and Savage 110FP. Finely finished blued steel is nice
to look at but it doesn't take much to ruin it so I tend to stay away from
Paul J. Headlee <email@example.com>
Ogden, KS USA - Sunday, November 01, 1998 at 23:13:16 (EST)
Perrenial favorite for cleaning military weapons is carborater cleaner.
Works like BC Gun Scrubber but at a fraction of the cost. As far as the
M-24's, I like RB-17, and Gun Scrubber for the hard to reach bits. Works
great and no drips. Have to buy all our own cleaning stuff. Seems that
the powers that be don't see the need for specialized gear for specialized
weapons. Some things never change I suppose.
E Engler <firstname.lastname@example.org>
CP Greaves, ROK - Monday, November 02, 1998 at 08:35:12 (EST)
Anyone have any comments, (pro/con), on the "World's Fastest Gun
Bore Cleaner"? It's made by National Tech-Labs of Boise, ID.
Mike O'Brien <email@example.com>
Evansville, WY USA - Monday, November 23, 1998 at 03:18:53 (EST)
Mike O'Brien, Re; "Fastest bore cleaner". Have had my first one
about 6months now and 8 matches later still think its a great addition
to my rifle kit. Its non rigid and may not help with a blockage, BUT with
some "Shooters Choice" right before the brush cleans very quickly and I
usually run it through about 4 times. Still it doesn't quite seeem to be
enough (like I ought to be doing more)....yet have found no build up in
my Rem 700V .308. I bought another for my hunting rig and have it in the
Eagle stock pouch and have bought 4 more for Christmas gifts. I was told
that if you also put your favorite oil at the end of the loop, you also
lube the bore...haven't done that yet, will do so next match. So far, Cabella's
has the best price (about $12.99)that I can find.
Somewhere in the South, USA - Monday, November 23, 1998 at 07:25:05
I will hopefully shoot black hills moly loads until I start loading
my own. I was wondering also about cleaning products, I read all the comments
on your site about cleaning, but there is no mention of Tetra gun products.
Are they good or do you recommend something else? I plan on purchasing
a Bore Tech cleaning rod and a stoney point rod guide. I probably won't
get to shoot until spring, so I have some time to figure out what I'm going
to do. I'm not military or police, I just love shooting and thought I'd
ask the pros so I could do it right the first time, and get the most enjoyment
out of my investment.
Thanks and best wishes
USA - Thursday, December 03, 1998 at 13:20:31 (EST)
Rich - Watch out for the Tetra products. The Tetra Gun Grease will
go rancid just as butter does and smells worse. Bad news for long storage.
The barrel stuff did not impress me. I got a 75 fps increase in muzzle
velocity with the stuff, good news, bad news, it didn't stay there and
the velocity would become erratic. Check the archives for break in procedures,
there are several techniques out there, to include the techniques we use
at SOTIC. Or email me if you are interested and I'll try to explain the
method we use at SOTIC.
Fayetteville, NC USA - Thursday, December 03, 1998 at 23:31:32 (EST)
Could someone please tell me where I can find the Bore-Tech cleaning
supplies that are reviewed elsewhere in this site? Bore-Tech sounds like
just what I am looking for and I cannot find any local dealer who has heard
of it; neither can I find any references on the Internet, other than this
Roland Bailey <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Kingston Springs, Tennessee USA - Monday, December 07, 1998 at 15:33:24
Roland: Bore Tech can be contacted directly. I believe the address
and phone # was listed in the article. Also, Dewey Rods are an excellent
choice too. The handle of the Bore Stix is nicer but the Dewey rod fits
the bore better. Trade offs. You can not go wrong with either. I will say
that if you want a great bore guide, find a Sinclear catalog. Their guides
are objects of simplicity and function.
USA - Tuesday, December 08, 1998 at 09:39:59 (EST)
What is the best setup for a cleaning kit for a sniper-grade rifle.
I'm not going near this thing with the junk I use on my other weapons.
(Been looking for a bit, and this thread hasn't come up - maybe it's too
elementary, but it is important).
Brian Bascom <email@example.com>
Smack in the middle of, Texas USA - Monday, December 28, 1998 at 17:14:50
Good idea on getting the proper cleaning equiptment. I like the
Dewey rod and a good bore guide with brass core brush's. My rod is teflon
coated and has given me trouble free service. There are several good rods
out there just make sure you get a one piece rod. I use Hoppes and Sweets
7.62 and sometimes Shooters Choice.
USA - Monday, December 28, 1998 at 19:23:36 (EST)
Brian - Cleaning kit for a quality rifle, sniper or otherwise:
(Note, this is not compact FIELD GEAR)
A one piece coated cleaning Rod. Dewey is a great example. Make sure
the diameter is appropriate for caliber. You do not want a rod that warps
and bends in the bore. They run about $22.
You can use a one piece steel rod but this can score your rifling
over time. It all depends on the quality and surface finish of the rod.
ALWAYS wipe the rod after each pass, no matter what it is made of.
Bore Guide. Get one that has some sort of O-Ring on it to keep the
crud from flowing back into the chamber/action. I prefer Sinclair International's
bore guides which are made of Derlin and made to the exact specification
of your rifle. They are easier to use than the more complicated metal guides.
Forget cheapo plastic MTM guides. The excellent Sinlcair guides run about
Cleaning jags. Both punch jags and wrap jags - quality bronze ones,
(not steel, plastic or aluminum!) Parker Hale type wrap jags are excellent.
Avoid jags that taper to a thin cross section in the middle. You'll just
bend them. Avoid eyelet type jags. They can not do as good a job as a wrap
or punch jag. $1.50 ea.
Bore Brush. I am not a big fan of the bore brush. Only use it when
I have to. Get only TOP QUALITY brushes. Not dime store crap. Hoppes Bench
Rest brushes are a good start. Not too expensive. Get them bulk. They were
a buck a piece last I looked but that has been awhile. What ever you use,
do not get anything other than bronze. Avoid cheap core wires. A bent brush
with a hard steel center can really kill a barrel. Also, never EVER use
Quality patches. Forget Hoppes and other dime store brands. Mail
order by bulk. Oxyoke or mil-spec flannel cotton patches are good. Sincliar
has quality patches too. Figure about $14.00 per 1000. Don't scrimp on
patches and don't reuse them. Clean from the camber and let the patch fall
off at the muzzle. Get square cut patches. Oddly shaped ones can be a real
bitch to work with. The square ones go well with both type jags mentioned
above. I highly recommend both punch and wrap as one or the other will
usually work with what ever kind of patch you end up with. Sometimes punch
jags get stuck with thicker patches. Have both on hand!
Chamber cleaning tools: You can improvise. This is the one area I
still use an eyelet type jag. I thread several patches in it to get the
walls of the chamber. A chamber brush is a good investment to remove heavy
fouling, but go easy.
Lug recess cleaning tools. Often ignored area. Lot of crap builds
up over time. Sinclair offype a good tool and Midway may also. These are
used in conjunction with a fat swab not unlike a small tampon - about a
¼ inch in diameter and an inch long. You rotate the tool in the
lug area and this swabs out the build up. Cotton swabs run about $2.50/100
and the tools run from dirt cheap to $20. You can get by with out one,
but don't forget to clean the area. If you let this go, eventually you
will get galling or scratches on the bolt lugs or receiver lug recess.
Cleaning fluids. Lots of choices. Shooters Choice MC#7 to attack
copper and carbon. Hoppes 9 for general cleaning. Sweets 7.62 for the really
persistent copper. I usually clean with Hoppes first. Swab dry and follow
up with Shooters choice. Swab dry and follow up with Hoppes 9 again. Dry.
Oil. Put away.
NEVER use Sweets 7.62 in a barrel that might have some Shooters Choice
still in it! The two create a third chemical that eats bores! Reserve Sweets
for those times when you just have to use it and then use it ALONE.
Last thing: JB bore paste. Great product to be used occaisonally.
It gets it ALL out.
I cover it all guys?
Gooch/Rick: how about some good field cleaning gear? I hate segmented
rods (M60 cleaning kit). Pull through's work well. Any favorites?
USA - Tuesday, December 29, 1998 at 13:42:31 (EST)
My choice for cleaning rods is the Dewey 1 piece coated rods. ive
used these for 5years and have never had a problem with them. as for the
multi- pieced m16 rods, they are sh*t for obvious reasons. In our National
Guard School I came up with a method that might work if you dont have access
to a Dewey. Go to your local electronics shop and purchase enough shrink
tubing to cover the assembled cleaning rod at least twice. When you assemble
the rod sections, cover the rod with the tubing and heat it till it shrinks....
probrably why they call it shrink tubing, huh? Do this at least twice,
and *poof*....a 1 piece cleaning rod.
USA - Tuesday, December 29, 1998 at 16:26:02 (EST)
About cleaning kits, I have been using the BlackHawk made kit with
the Ottis flex pull through as a field kit for about a year. As a field
kit it is great. Cost about $25.00
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Tuesday, December 29, 1998 at 21:29:38 (EST)
So much about cleaning??? I'm a great fan of removing the Copper
fouling every chance I get. But unless you clean every shot.....there is
more crap in that barrel after the first shot. I know our Military believes
in cleaning to occupy the Sojer's time and maybe that's how it got started
but I don't know about all that attention to detail and whether there is
a point of diminishing returns there when you get more laping out of the
soft patches than the bullets. JB paste and get the copper out and runner
till she's white and go watch TV.
USA - Tuesday, December 29, 1998 at 23:08:56 (EST)
When in the field I use a collapsible pocket rod to remove barrel
obstructions. RAPID ROD from Atsko Inc. But to clean the bore I use a brass
weighted drop through cord. World's Fastest Gun Bore Cleaner from NATIONAL
James Barko <M4CUPP70@aol.com>
Calumet City, IL. USA - Wednesday, December 30, 1998 at 11:56:38 (EST)
I went back over the hot tips/cold shots archive on cleaning and
I saw no reference to CLP. It seems to be used on everything from M1 gun
tubes to handguns in the Army. I've used it for years on my pistols but
never much on my rifles, is it any good for fouling or just for powder
residue and carbon?
BroncoMania, Colorado USA - Monday, January 11, 1999 at 03:36:05 (EST)
Did anyone EVER answer that guy about CLP and if its any good??
Good for nothing, is my opinion....its suppose to be a bore cleaner, lubricant
and preservative all rolled into one !! HOW?? I have never seen any used
on the ranges I haunt except somebody with a NORINCO who doesn't know better
and bought the darn 7.62x39 from a "Army/Navy store". Yep, had to have
it while in the service but I also had my stash of REAL bore cleaner. The
stuff that was issued had to be "Shakened OR Stirred" before use. Think
I have a quart or two still put away to be given to other shooters when
we are getting ready for a match. Give them that "extra edge"!!
Sweet Home, Alabama USA - Tuesday, January 12, 1999 at 21:41:36 (EST)
Will, Re: CLP
It is all I have ever used to lube my AR-15 and I have not experienced
any problems. As to bore cleaning with it...Don't know, never tried that.
Depity Dave <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Thawing out at last in, Magnificent, West Virginia USA - Wednesday,
January 13, 1999 at 01:54:27 (EST)
Will: If memory serves me correctly, the services went to CLP because
it was one product to carry as opposed to a minimum of three (ie: bore
cleaner, oil, and grease). The product they chose is remarkably similar
to Break Free, and I believe if it was analyzed chemically, we would discover
it IS Break Free. It does have the ability to clean the bore, perhaps not
as well as some of the products we all use, but under less than great conditions,
it will work. It will also perform lubricant duties as claimed, and is
in fact a good product. Should you be limited to only one product it would
be the one to carry. I've seen and shot Depity Dave's rifles on many occasions;
his AR works as advertised and better. Guess the lube is doing its job.
People's Rep. of, MD USA - Wednesday, January 13, 1999 at 09:17:52
CLP is good for lots of shit. Just dont clean the bore on match
rifles with it. It leaves a teflon residue behind, which is what it was
designed to do.
Elk Garden , WV USA - Wednesday, January 13, 1999 at 17:34:30 (EST)
I have read several people say they clean their weapons with "Shooter's
Choice" and 'Kroil.' I have kroil, but there are several different 'flavors'
of Shooter's Choice. Which one do you use? Regular bore solvent, copper
Also, JB Bore Compound and it's variants, are also used. Do you scrub
the bore with JB every time? or ocassionally, i.e. every x00 rds?
I scrub the bore with JB after each trip to the range, even if it
is only for 30-40 rds. I am now wondering if I over clean. It seems to
take 15 - 20 rds to 'settle in' the next time out.
Sanford, Tx, USA - Tuesday, January 19, 1999 at 03:20:33 (ZULU)
You said that your using JBs to clean eveytime you shoot and that
it takes 15 to 20 rounds before the gun settles in. When I had my last
308 rebarreled with a Schneider SS barrel I had trouble with getting it
to "Break in" and quit fouling. I called my smith and he said to use JBs
and scrub it after each trip to the range but the problem continued. I
finally called Mr Schneider and talked to him and he said to quit using
the JBs because each time you do that the gun barrel needs to start the
"Break in" process all over again. I followed his advise and in a short
time the fouling quit. I then tried this on another rifle of mine to test
his theory. I scrubbed it clean with JBs and then shot it and upon cleaning
it I noticed heavier fouling for the first cleaning. After the initial
cleaning it "Settled in" again and went back to the way it was. I think
JBs is great and it should be used on "Dirty or heavy fouling but not on
normal cleaning after each range session. Just my thoughts on this.
USA - Tuesday, January 19, 1999 at 14:46:00 (ZULU)
Cleanliness is next to Godliness, but we're the "Great Unwashed"
try Shooters Choice or Rem-Clean every fifty rounds, MRBULLET is
right as usual! Too much is not a good thing.
SUN-CITY, bY-gAwD, USA - Tuesday, January 19, 1999 at 16:02:01 (ZULU)
I agree with what Pat said...
... if you "Clean" with JB bore paste, you will "never" break in
your barrel... each time you run paste through the barrel, you roughen
it again... JB is an abrasive. If it's a 30 cal now... eventually you will
wind up with a 31 cal.
JB Bore paste was designed to clean pistols and revolvers that had
bad leading (from real lead!). What we are dealing with, is powder fouling,
(easy to clean) and sometimes copper wash.
If you clean often... every 30-40 rounds, then all you need is a
standard bore cleaner like Hoppe's #9, or some of the others that are similar.
#9 (and the others) have a mild copper cleaner in them also... that's why
the patches will come out green. It will remove the powder gook, and mild
copper wash. You will never need anything stronger, "IF" you clean that
often (after your bbl is polished from being broken in).
If you shoot a LOT between cleaning... like two-three day matches,
where you shoot hundreds of rounds, and can't clean... you may find that
a quick cleaning with #9 type cleaners isn't enough... you can tell if
it's not enough because the last patches keep coming out with a trace of
"GREEN"... you can wet the bore with cleaner and let it stay wet over night,
and finish cleaning the next day.
If you really can't get the copper out, use a solvent like Hoppe's
"Copper solvent"... let stand over night and that will clean the worst
of them. Midway, and Sinclair, both sell chamber plugs (the same ones)
that are like a steel cartridge with an "O" ring. Put the plug in, stand
the rifle on it's butt, and fill the barrel with solvent... if it's really
You don't want abrasives in the barrel... JB was never intented for
what you're using it for... I wouldn't let the stuff in my house.
... my 2 cent's
Paul "Pablito" Coburn <email@example.com>
USA - Tuesday, January 19, 1999 at 16:13:29 (ZULU)
Re: Cleaning with JB: I've found with my molly-coated bullets that
cleaning with a copper solvent like Shooter's Choice will strip the molly
from the barrel and move the point of aim for the first few shots until
the bore is re-plated. Berger Bullets (where I get mine) recommends cleaning
barrels with JB and Kroil when using molly bullets, and that's what I use.
I admit I haven't carefully checked the cold-barrel zero since I started,
but at the last match I scored 30-3X at 200 yards with the first three
rounds out of the barrel, so it can't be too far off.
We've been kicking around the idea of starting the match at 1000
yards and working forwards, instead of the other way around, to make the
cold-barrel zero a larger factor, but I'm not sure it will make much difference
-- I don't think any of us can hit consistantly at 1000 yards anyway.
Richmond, CA, USA - Tuesday, January 19, 1999 at 20:38:14 (ZULU)
I thought this gun cleaning stuff has been beat to death, but I
guess I was wrong. Since I have run out of things to say on my own, I will
resort to robbing the works of others. I found this little thread at the
GO VARMIT GO BBS and I hope the authors dont mind that I repeat it here.
I think we have to give up on our drill instructor fantasies of
squeaky clean rifle.There is no such thing as a rifle that is properly
lubricated that can pass the white glove test. There is an equilibrium
involved in cleaning the bore of a rifle. Too much copper and carbon
fouling will cause rust, corrosion, accuracy deteriation, and increased
chamber/bore pressures. Too vigorous an attack on the bore will
harm the rifling, or muzzle crown. How much copper should be removed
you to say you've cleaned the rifle? The answer is not easy. You
look inside yourself...into your Buddha Nature, letting your third
guide you...to know that 15 minutes, 1/2 hour, or more is enough
remove the copper guilding that will cause rust, raise pressures,
destroy accuracy. Oh, I know, I hear you say that copper is copper
that damn thing down to bare steel. I know many High Power DCM shooters
who refuse to strip the bore of all copper. Instead, they remove
except a 'light dressing..or coating' of copper so as to not throw
first shot off the mark. Oh I know that we are not supposed to use
GI sectional cleaning rods...but how many of us have a few laying
around, 'just in case' Oh I know that we are not supposed to clean
anything but the chamber end of a rifle...but how many of us don't
the time, or can't clean from the chamber end. Oh I know that we
supposed to clean the living hell out the bore...thats what Dad,
DI said...but how many do? I think that there is a point where most
us look down the bore and say...'it's clean, lets get a beer' Endlessly
cleaning is needless, and potentially more harmfull than the copper.
That moment. The moment where you look down the bore, expecting
it to be
as shiny as a US presidents morals. And you see a bore that is clean,
but not bare steel...shiny, but not a mirror. And you say,'yup it's
clean' you've had your moment of bore cleaning Zen. You have arrived
the euilibrium. You and I know that bore is clean...even if it has
copper smudge in it. Now, as for home recipes. I just tried grocery
store ammonia and had pretty damn good results! I cleaned out the
of a SVT and used the ammonia to negate corrosive ammo. I also found
patches comming out blue...kind of reminded me of Hoppes Copper
I brushed the hell out of the bore with Hoppes No9 and then more
and the copper was gone...go figure! I used a nylon brush.
You want Zen? It doesn't come from a dirty gun. I can't sleep at
if my guns are dirty. I can hear the crincle-crackle of carbon buildup
and the hiss of corrosion from the guns in my safe and I have to
and clean them before I can go back to sleep. I clean guns that
been shot in months just because I know they haven't been cleaned
either. True Zen, I believe, is achieved through concentrated effort.
don't chant like the Bhudist monks in their monastaries in Tibet,
can achieve a blissful trance-like state while spending an hour
the gas system on an AR-15 until I don't see any carbon any where.
Nirvana! Ok, maybe it is just the solvent fumes, I always forget
a window. Anyway, it works for me. Regards Alan K.
I am in agreement with the Zenlike balance-- the Yin and Yan of new
to lived-in function. I have also found that a truly nasty blackbore
will oft-times respond to a gentle cleaning with Brasso. There is
abrasion to Brasso (and less chance of damage) than there is to
bore-brush and it will clean all manner of gloop out of the bore.
the Brasso Heresy frequently on black-bores with healthy rifling.
Personally, I rather like the ''well-used train track'' shine to
''knock-yer-eyes-out'' ain't-never-been-shot chromed super-nova
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Wednesday, January 20, 1999 at 01:20:32 (ZULU)
Thanks for all of the input. I guess I failed to mention I am using
Sierra bullets I moly coat myself with a Midway vibrator.
I am going to severely cut back on my use of JB and stick with the
good ole Military Bore cleaner followed by a dry patch or 2 and military
Sanford, Texas, USA - Wednesday, January 20, 1999 at 03:02:23 (ZULU)
On the use of JBs bore cleaner, I would like to make it clear that
I was NOT referring to you guys who shoot moly bullets. I don't but plan
on trying them in my 260 later on and from my understanding and research
on moly bullets the best way to clean is with Kroil and JBs. It's my understanding
that standard bore cleaners don't work well with moly bullets. I hope this
will clear up any misunderstanding I may have caused. My post was in responce
to copper bullets only.
USA - Wednesday, January 20, 1999 at 14:17:05 (ZULU)
Can anyone please tell me who makes Sweet's 7.62 or what distributor
handles it? None of my wholesalers seem to carry the stuff.
The Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, February 02, 1999 at 01:29:04
Doc, "SWeets 7.62 solvent is made by "Sweets wholesale pty. ltd.
in Australia. Any good gun shop should carry the stuff, but if nothing
else Dillion Precision has it in there catalog. Web page is
Kansas, USA - Tuesday, February 02, 1999 at 05:17:13 (ZULU)
While picking the brain of one of the Sierra ballistic experts this
morning I happened to mention Sweet's 7.62. He said not to use it because
it was too slow. His personal choice is Barnes CR-10. Any comments?
The Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, February 03, 1999 at 16:13:18
CR-10 vs Sweets both are real aggressive fast workers, I use Shooters
Choice Copper Remover, and need lotsa ventilation for your health. Caveat
Cleaner my man.
BIG-BRIGHT-CITY, bY-gAWd, USA - Wednesday, February 03, 1999 at 17:39:51
By the way, don't expect Kroil to inhibit rust! Left as the sole
agent in the bore as an experiment, I got slight rust in a few days time.
USA - Saturday, February 13, 1999 at 04:47:49 (ZULU)
Hey Guys, I am breaking in a Remington 700 police and I figured
I would give it a light cleaning before I shot it. That light cleaning
turned into a nightmare!! Th patches kept coming out blue/orange with no
end in sight!!! Is this normal for a new rifle? What should I use to remove
the fouling? Should I let it soak for a while? Should this much cleaning
be necessary on a brand new rifle!!? If anyone can give me some insight
I would much appreciate it, Thanks in advance.
James Castagno <firstname.lastname@example.org>
USA - Wednesday, February 24, 1999 at 13:55:21 (ZULU)
This is not oncommon in a new rifle. There is always residue left
in the barrel after the rifeling process and the the barrel is probably
prof tested. I always start by giving it a good cleaning and brushing with
Hoppies then I go to Sweets until there is no "Blue" on the patch then
I go to JBs bore paste and run at least 5 patchs through about 5 to 6 times
each to really get it clean and then clean it with a wet patch of Hoppies
again then I run a number of dry patchs through it and I am then ready
to start the break in process. I know this may sound a little "Anal retentive"
but it does make for a nice smooth barrel and clean up is a lot easier
down the road. A little time spent here will save a lot of time down the
road. Shooting through the crud only makes for a rough barrel because a
lot of times it will become a part of the barrel through the firing process.
USA - Wednesday, February 24, 1999 at 14:22:13 (ZULU)
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