Barrel technology - 5R:
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 22:40:12 (EST)
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 22:41:49 (EST)
I've emailed Remington for clarification on some of this stuff. Wait out.
gooch <gooch@stormmountain.com>
USA - Wednesday, December 16, 1998 at 23:12:10 (EST)
Doc,
To the best of my limited knowledge, the 5R describes the type of
rifling. In non-5R rifling the lands join the grooves with a relatively
sharp angle. The 5R type has a small radius at the root of the lands. Supposed
to have less gas leakage, less stress on the jacket material, etc. Don't
know if this radius in is on the driving, or non-driving side of the lands,
or both. Obermeyer, a top flight barrel maker uses it, and I think Rock.
Don't know anything about Rock's barrels, and never heard of them being
used in competition.
Don't know how many grooves either. BTW, some three groove barrels
are doing fine in long range competition.
Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
A PSS with a 5R. Hmmm...I wonder if the guy somehow got the custom
shop to stick an M24 barrel in his PSS? If they make this a standard feature
on the PSS, it would finally be worth the extra price.
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Is that polygonal, for lack of a better word, rifling along the lines
of the Whitworth configuration, or more like the H-K, Lothar Walther, or
post WW-II(stG 43?) profiles? The Soviets are noted for "borrowing" ideas
from other nations.
I can see that you will be providing some REAL good techie info.
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
All barrels have a crown, technically. It is where the bullet exits
the barrel. Maybe what the writer meant was that the crown was not coned,
counterbored, etc. Even a straight 90° cut across the barrel face is
a "crown". A crown doesn't have to be fancy to do what is needed. Assume
that the bullet is straight in the barrel (large assumption). We want the
gases to vent evenly around the circumference of the bullet base as it
breaks seal with the crown. You probably already know this.
See ya.
Good question.
Negative on any r
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 00:05:10 (EST)
5R bbls we stole the design from the Russians is what I have been
told. Mike Rock made the originals for the M24 for Remington, but Remington
now makes there own. Both Rem and Rock bbls are great as well as the Obermeyer(If
you can find one). A few guys out on the West Coast are using the Rock
bbls for HP Comp. but Krieger is the big name here. Rock 5R is also the
Stock bbl for the Armalite AR10T.
Calif USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 01:17:44 (EST)
5R barrels: Andy Webber used these on his AT1-M24. From the short
time I spent with that rifle I can say one definite advantage is the minimal
fouling properties of the 5R profile. It would seem, and I could be wrong
here, that the profile causes less "damage" to the bullet jacket as it
goes down the tube. This seems to result in the bore stripping off less
jacket material, which in turn make cleaning out the copper easier as there
is less present. We fired for two days with out cleaning and when I finally
got around to it, after approximately 250 rounds, I could find almost NO
copper fouling when cleaning with Sweets! I kept trying but it just was
not there. This was with plain Jane 168 grian Federal GM. Armament Technology
goes the extra mile to give you a good bore, but I didn't expect this result
to be so dramatic. I assume it is the 5R profile that is responsible.
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 10:30:20 (EST)
On the 5R barrel's if my history serves me correct there were only
a few 5R barrels put on the early PSS and if you were lucky enough to get
one they were really shooter's!!! with accuracy up to 20% better than the
standard 6 lans but to my knowledge there not putting them on the new one's.
(I only wish they would)
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 11:08:52 (EST)
As to the 5R bbls Yes the Custom Shop is the one that put on the
5R bbl for me. It took pulling some strings to do it and that was in 1997.
I tried again last month with no luck. You see with supporting that Race
Car they have all but closed down the Custom Shop. I haven't given up yet
as the 5R is a better bbl.
Mike
Mike M <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 12:29:13 (EST)
Is there anyway to verify what serial number string had the 5R on
the PSS and what year they were produced? I believe a friend may have one
of these as the accuracy is startling for a PSS. His is the old style with
the 24" barrel, flat cut muzzle and 45 degree crown. His also had the parkerized
finish. I believe this rifle may be as old as the mid 1980s.
USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 13:39:55 (EST)
PSS with 5R bbl.s, I don't know how many were made on purpose as
a standard item. If you look at the bore of the rifle you will see an obvious
difference between the two. For one thing 5 groves versus 6 on the standard.
Mine was strickly a Custom Shop thing and not a normal order item. Lets
face it Reminton wants to sell the M24's and if you have a PSS with a 5R
bbl your pretty close for about $2,000.00 less.
Calif USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 14:29:32 (EST)
The 5r rifling profile is basically radiusing the intersection between
land and groove, I think it's like a 110 degree radius. H-S Precision uses
a similar process which they call the 10x rifling, but we like the six
groove design, 75% land 25% groove. I like the idea of radiusing the corners
because it not only helps on fouling, but it creates a tighter seal between
the bullet and the bore, therefore better velocity and a smoother ride.
Hope that helps ya out.
Jeremy O'Neal <mrpink@rapidnet.com>
rapid city, sd USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 22:34:44 (EST)
Jeremy,
Great post!
CCCCOLD-CITY, BY-GAWD USA - Friday, December 18, 1998 at 09:44:14 (EST)
To those who know about the PSS with the 5R barrel:
I never heard of these barrels before you guys mentioned them. I
read one message that said they were 24" barrels with uncrowned muzzles.
This gun is put away for the winter and is kind of hard to get at it now
to check the number of grooves. My PSS is parkerized, has a 24" barrel
and an uncrowned muzzle so now I'm wondering if I have one of these barrels
on my gun. My question is: are all the 24", uncrowned, parkerized PSSs
the 5R version? I bought this PSS about 6 years ago from a police supply
store that doesn't sell to the public. They told me that they don't sell
many rifles there so it may have been sitting in storage for a while before
I bought it making it older than 6 years. Thanks for your help.
Kodiak <rvl@inil.com>
USA - Friday, January 01, 1999 at 15:28:36 (EST)
Kodiak,
You wrote:
I read one message that said they were 24" barrels with uncrowned
muzzles.
Ron N. <rcn8@accnorwalk.com>
USA - Saturday, January 02, 1999 at 15:07:51 (EST)
Let's drag up the 5r barrel stuff one more time. Is there a way
with the naked eye to tell if a barrel is a 5r? Have my eyes pealed, but
still confused what their pealed for.
Bolt <mbolt34347@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, January 03, 1999 at 13:16:23 (EST)
Bolt - Count the radials (Technically not lands and grooves). Normal
barrels are even numbers I believe. In a 5R barrel there will be 5 "lands".
Gooch <gooch@stormmountain.com>
Elk Garden, WV USA - Sunday, January 03, 1999 at 15:19:28 (EST)