Sniper Country Duty Roster

December 2008

A while back someone was asking about .308 or .223 brass. Click.

MarcS: What did your Ruger stock guy have to say?

CDC'
Monday, December 1, 2008, at 05:01:40 (ZULU)

Thought y'all might like this commentary from Ann Coulter

Terrorists' Restless Leg Syndrome

by Ann Coulter

I thought the rest of the world was going to love us if we elected B. Hussein Obama! Somebody better tell the Indian Muslims. As everyone but President-elect B. Hussein Obama's base knows, many of the Guantanamo detainees cannot be sent to their home countries, cannot be released and cannot be tried. They need to be held in some form of extra-legal limbo the rest of their lives, sort of like Phil Spector.

And now they're Obama's problem.

If Obama wants his detention of Islamic terrorists to be dramatically different from Bush's Guantanamo, my suggestion is that he cut off -- so to speak -- the expensive prosthetic limb procedures now being granted the detained terrorists.

Far from being sodomized and tortured by U.S. forces -- as Obama's base has wailed for the past seven years -- the innocent scholars and philanthropists being held at Guantanamo have been given expensive, high-tech medical procedures at taxpayer expense. If we're not careful, multitudes of Muslims will be going to fight Americans in Afghanistan just so they can go to Guantanamo and get proper treatment for attention deficit disorder and erectile dysfunction.

After being captured fighting with Taliban forces against Americans in 2001, Abdullah Massoud was sent to Guantanamo, where the one-legged terrorist was fitted with a special prosthetic leg, at a cost of $50,000-$75,000 to the U.S. taxpayer. Under the Americans With Disabilities Act, Massoud would now be able to park his car bomb in a handicapped parking space!

No, you didn't read that wrong, because the VA won't pay for your new glasses. I said $75,000. I would have gone with hanging at sunrise, but what do I know?

Upon his release in March 2004, Massoud hippity-hopped back to Afghanistan and quickly resumed his war against the U.S. Aided by his new artificial leg, just months later, in October 2004, Massoud masterminded the kidnapping of two Chinese engineers in Pakistan working on the Gomal Zam Dam project.

This proved, to me at least, that people with disabilities can do anything they put their minds to. Way to go, you plucky extremist!

Massoud said he had nothing against the Chinese but wanted to embarrass Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf for cooperating with the Americans. You know, the Americans who had just footed -- you should pardon the expression -- a $75,000 bill for his prosthetic leg.

Pakistani forces stormed Massoud's hideout, killing all the kidnappers, including Massoud. Only one of the Chinese engineers was rescued alive.

As a result of the kidnapping, the Chinese pulled all 100 engineers and dam workers out of Pakistan, and work on the dam ceased. This was bad news for the people of Pakistan -- but good news for the endangered Pakistani snail darter!

In none of the news accounts I read of Massoud's return to jihad after his release from Guantanamo is there any mention of the fact that his prosthetic leg was acquired in Guantanamo, courtesy of American taxpayers after he was captured trying to kill Americans on the battlefield in Afghanistan.

News about the prosthetic leg might interfere with stories of the innocent aid workers being held captive at Guantanamo in George Bush's AmeriKKKa.

To the contrary, although Massoud's swashbuckling reputation as a jihadist with a prosthetic leg appears in many news items, where he got that leg is almost purposely hidden -- even lied about.

"Abdullah Massoud ... had earned both sympathy and reverence for his time in Guantanamo Bay. ... Upon his release, he made it home to Waziristan and resumed his war against the U.S. With his long hair, his prosthetic limb and impassioned speeches, he quickly became a charismatic inspiration to Waziristan's youth." -- The New York Times

He's not a one-legged terrorist -- he's a freedom fighter living with a disability. I think we could all learn something about courage from this man.

"He lost his leg in a landmine explosion a few days before the fall of Kabul to the Taliban in September 1996. It didn't dampen his enthusiasm as a fighter and he got himself an artificial leg later, says Yusufzai." -- The Indo-Asian News Service

Where? At COSTCO?

"The 29-year-old Massoud, who lost his left leg in a landmine explosion while fighting alongside the Taliban, often used to ride a horse or camel because his disability made it painful for him to walk long distances in hilly areas." -- BBC Monitoring South Asia

Side-saddle, I'm guessing. And you just know those caves along the Afghan-Pakistan border aren't wheelchair accessible.

"He was educated in Peshawar and was treated in Karachi after his left leg was blown up in a landmine explosion in the Wreshmin Tangi gorge near Kabul in September 1996. He now walks with an artificial leg specifically made for him in Karachi." -- Gulf News (United Arab Emirates)

Karachi? Hey, how do I get into this guy's HMO?

They can't lick leprosy in Karachi, but the Gulf News tells us Massoud got his artificial leg at one of their specialty hospitals.

Anyone who thinks the Guantanamo detainees can be released without consequence doesn't have a leg to stand on.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Monday, December 1, 2008, at 05:47:04 (ZULU)

Morning everyone. Just purchased a Ruger 10/22CRR-BBZ for the rug rat. Looking for advice on a good scope to mount on it. Any suggestions are welcome.

Specs:

Caliber: .22 LR

Barrel Length: 16 1/8"

Stock: Black Laminate

Rear Sight: Folding

On a different note, I finally finished up on my HK USP 45 Std project. The lock up on it was horrible and I have been looking for a means to improve the lockup time, trigger and improving how one grips the pistol. The solution to the lock up time is replacing the factory 14# recoil spring with a 18# and changing out the trigger spring to a lighter spring (I took the trigger spring from my LEM kit), left the main spring housing alone. Took the detent and changed it out to 5 & 6 (removed the decocking feature) and sanded and angled the safety lever. This modification allowed me to have my hands higher on the grip. Over all, the USP45 is what is should have been but fell short when leaving the factory.

Went shooting last Saturday with both my Jerry Rice rifle and the USP and had a blast. The wife is letting me go shoot twice a month now, one at the local range the other is at a steel shoot near my house.

All in all, it has been good weekend.

Darren
East Bay, Ca, USA - Monday, December 1, 2008, at 14:06:36 (ZULU)

jc...

You cracked me up today - I love it.

Have any of you monkeys heard that the Bush admin has authorized 20,000 US military troops to be active INSIDE the US borders?

Anyone in the Bush admin ever read the United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385), also known as the The Posse Comitatus Act.

This is all over the press these days.

http://www.startribune.com/nation/35292174.html

Now, I'm not implying that I don't trust the army (and air force, navy and marines)... I AM saying that I don't trust the phucking federal government, and I sure as hell don't know what happened to the republican party??????

I think I see a black helicopter hoovering over my house :(((

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, December 1, 2008, at 16:40:05 (ZULU)

CDC- I spent the long weekend in Oregon building a deck for my mother and checking out some future steelhead fishing spots. Forgot to call that shop and they were closed today. I'll call them tomorrow for sure and post here around lunch time.

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Tuesday, December 2, 2008, at 02:57:23 (ZULU)

Lito: dudeski, I need to relate to you some of the impromptu conversations that came my way in my later uniformed years...senior field grades commenting on what bothers you---and openly offering such comments without knowing much about me. It was, to put a point on it, rather strange in light of the ucmj. But, you will be happy to hear about these observations....offline of course.

Seems like just yesterday I was toasting Bruce...and here we go again. 2009 is knocking on our door. Damn.

I tell you what: I have decided here and now that 2009 will be my year. The best in a long time. Now to figure out how in the hell to implement this scheme. I do have one advantage: 2008 sucked so bad it won't take much to show improvement:))

Joe M
Tuesday, December 2, 2008, at 03:17:20 (ZULU)

CDC- That shop changed hands and the stock is not around right now. I talked to the original owner who still hangs out in there and he's going to look around. They all remember seeing it there but nobody remembers selling it. I'll find out tomorrow.

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Tuesday, December 2, 2008, at 20:23:27 (ZULU)

MarcS: Unless it is cheap-cheap, don't worry about it. Laminated stocks are available on eBay for $105.

Pablo: It isn't a matter of trusting the military. You can always find goons and ambitious toadies to lead them. Putting whatever uniform on them you like is a formality. Click for a great historical precedent of political opportunists (the Praetorians) facing up to serious opponents (Septimus Severus' Leigons).

Gibbon told this story better. He had more about how averse the city-soft Praetorian Guards were to defending their meal ticket against hard core combat soldiers.

CDC'
Tuesday, December 2, 2008, at 23:55:42 (ZULU)

A little support for Joe's economic analysis:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/24/nostradamus-redux/

Anyone else thinking it's time to seriously consider colonization of other planets?

WR Moore
Wednesday, December 3, 2008, at 00:59:00 (ZULU)

CDC- They can't find it anywhere.

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Wednesday, December 3, 2008, at 20:27:54 (ZULU)

Guys,

Bought my first AR the other day, a flat top carbine in .223. It came sans rear sight. Which rear sight do you guys suggest? The store where I work carries several, but the flip up one with the two different ghost rings seems a bit high,and it's a PITA, if I want to mount a scope.

What other crap should I look at hanging on it? It has the M-4 style stock, which I don't like, but will allow my wife and kid to be able to shoot it. .

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 06:14:48 (ZULU)

AR country (for a second):

I have a friend (heeeer we go)who has an interest in an AR of some description. No, I couldn`t get it out of him either. Just an all around, short barreled, iron sighted, throw in the truck sort of rifle. Light and quick without all the bells, whistles and coffee maker. I told him I vaguely remember someone on here a while back saying an AR was not all that difficult to build and folks buying them complete were taking a bath on price. I know just enough to get me in trouble building one, so my question is, can a maintenance man and a machinist who are non-ballistically challenged summon enough gray cells to buy the correct parts and assemble them and have them go BOOM in the correct fashion? Or, should he just pony up the 1.2K and get a DPMS or somesuch? I know it`s not rocket science, but is it really that easy? Thanks for any direction. I know how y`uns just love to help folks spend money on riffles.

Steve Racer
Somewhere at the edge of Dillsburg, PA, - Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 06:16:52 (ZULU)

Steve-it helps if you have some familiarity with what you're supposed to be building. There's a whole bunch of itty bitty spring loaded detents and such. The kits I put together for people 20+ years ago were conspicuously absent in directions. And a few odd parts.

Kits are probably a better solution if you lack the knowledge of the previously mentioned parts, plus what buffers/tubes, etc go with what. Some parts producers products aren't worth the postage, much less the part price. You will need a couple of specialized wrenches unless you can borrow or make them. The barrel nut wrench is one such.

WR Moore
Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 09:55:21 (ZULU)

Speed Racer (I know but I just like saying it): Click my name. Good luck with the wait.

CDC'
Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 12:24:48 (ZULU)

AR country,

The prices have gone stupid on parts in the last 2 months. Lowers have doubled. Building your own isn't hard you just need the right tools. I'll warn you they can be addtictive once you build one you'll want to build another. AR15.com has a lot of information about building your own. Brownells has the tools.

If Vulcan arms' prices are still valid I don't know if you can build one for what they sell them for. How long you'll have to wait might be something else.

Ben
Bryan, Ohio, U.S.A. - Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 12:45:41 (ZULU)

CDC...

Your name no clickie!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 12:49:28 (ZULU)

Pablo: I just needed coffee. Try this one.

CDC'
Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 13:30:58 (ZULU)

AR15 country:

Friend told me of a demo at a Maine gunshow several years ago with Bushmaster production line guy doing timed builds for a AR15's.

The times were not very long. Suspect that fellow could have even done it blindfolded :-) Field stripped - HA! Real men reassemble detail stripped! {grin}

There are books, DVD's and downloads on the topic. If handtools don't scare you, it won't be a big deal. It's even easier if you can eyeball one already built, so you know what you're aiming for.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 16:51:38 (ZULU)

Well, I'm back in coms.

Got word that the Nokia is flatly dead and Nokia refuses to repair it, so had to go out and get a new phone. Same phone number, just a new phone.

Danged feds won - the new phone has got the stupid GPS tracker, which, according to the little icon, works indoors as well. What the heck! My GPS doesn't get a signal inside, but my cell phone does?!?!

I guess the moral to that story is that if I'm really lost and can't get a signal, I should make a threat against an elected official - then they'll know right where I'm at and come get me :-( What a crock.

I bet when the so-called "patriot act" got passed, nobody thought WE would all be treated as terrorists!

Bravo
Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 19:16:42 (ZULU)

CDC, trust me, I`ve heard it before. I`m not easily offended. I`ve had 40+ years of it. Thanks for the link, that`s probably what he has in mind.

Frame of reference, I`ve torn down my M1A several times, everything but the trigger group. Stripped the bolt and checked headspace, installed buffer and shim kit on front band, reassembled, no biggie. Didn`t even think twice about it. Don`t know if I`m ready to do my own bedding job, but I`m sure I could when that day comes. Course, I read Scott Duff`s book beforehand, seemed like the thing to do. I think he also has a book on ole blackie, too. Worthwhile investment in any case?

Maybe we`ll build his first and if his doesn`t blow up, I`ll build my own. Hey, what are friends for?! >:O

Steve Racer
somewhere in Dillsburg , PA, USA - Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 19:17:43 (ZULU)

Travis I got the Yankee Hill Manufacturing flip up back up iron sights on mine and they seem to be fine. I have to say they are the only ones I've ever used as this is my first AR project. They were recommended to me by others who tell me that they know what they're talking about :)

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Thursday, December 4, 2008, at 20:45:49 (ZULU)

Travis,

Yer gonna need some akk-sess-er-eez for that thar AR...

Flip-up BUIS

Sling (one point, three point, mamba-boogie-stretchie, etc.)

2,0000000 Lumen Nuke-Flash light(with remote tak-tee-kool switch)

Crappucino Maker

Fuzzy Dice

Bayonet - never know when a mall ninja will a-tack

Flash suppressor - gotta watch out for flashes...

$2,000 match trigger

Sooper-Dooper floated barrel

Fluted sooper-dooper floated barrel

Stainless steel fluted floated sooper-dooper barrel

Chrome lined stainless steel fluted floated sooper-dooper barrel

Bipods - may need more than one!

Retractable, sneaky-sniper stock (with battery storage)

1,000 Watt Laser (red AND green... get the Christmas spirit!)

Quad-rails, (with sharp edges)

Titanium Nitride coated bolt and carrier ( gold color is koool!)

ACOG with a night vision amplifier in line...get the rig that let's you flip it to the side, so you can use your BUIS when ACOG goes Tango Upsilon...

.... and don't forget the rail mounted chainsaw, for those Zombie wars!

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/12/a_chainsaw_bayonet_strapped_to_an_ar15_rifle_is_the_ultimate_zombie_killing_weapon-2.html

Duman
Friday, December 5, 2008, at 00:11:26 (ZULU)

Marc S.,

How much? The ones at work are $100! That's awful high for something that shoulda been included.

Thoughts on the BUIS, anyone? I'm planning to add a tac latch. Another itemthat shoulda been made that way i the first place, IMHO. Same with ambi-safety. ALso planning on a Blackhawk one point sling. Seems to be a good way to go, since I frequently have to stop shooting to help customers.

Duman,

I hear ya; had a customer come in the other day that had about a hundred pounds of shit on an M-4. The most tacticool things I intend to hang on this one are some sorta rail doohickey for a big ass flashlight for solving night time problems of the furry, yodeling, calf klling persuasion, said big ass light, and maybe a dot sight.

Right now, I'm kinda digging on outshooting the guys with all the mall ninja shit using plain old irons.

What bullet weight seems to shoot the flattest out of carbine length barrels? Will VLD's feed in an AR?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, December 5, 2008, at 03:22:28 (ZULU)

Steve - AR15s are easy cheesy to build. My last one was from M&A parts (www.m-aparts.com) and it was good quality. The only issue (IMO) was the use of straight pins instead of taper pins on the FSB. I've used Bushmaster as well, they are good stuff.

If you buy a complete kit, you don't need the barrel wrench or any special tools except a CAR stock wrench.

Travis, the collapsible stock is best, the fixed stock is too long for anyone but an ape. Your nose should just touch the charging handle (again IMO)....it's an easy way of making sure you put your eye in the same spot every time. If you shoot squared up, you'll wind up with the car stock in the middle position (or #2 on the M4 stock). Most BUIS for the AR have multiple apertures set up for two different ranges. The exceptions are the "same plane" apertures where the large and small are both set up for the same range, and the GG&G MAD that has a rotating aperture disk.

The YHM will clear an optic on my AR. The ARMS #40L is a good choice. The Matech is also pretty popular, you can dial the range in out to 600 meters but with more moving parts I imagine it might not be quite as solid as some others. However, one of our members had one in the sandbox and said it was junk.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Friday, December 5, 2008, at 03:26:24 (ZULU)

Travis-if you lug that AR on a daily basis like I do, the factory latch is fine. Even it gets caught on gear and unintentionally unlatches upon occasion.

Bravo-I can turn the GPS thingy off on my phone for everything but 911 calls. My phone is 3 years old and this may no longer be possible on "improved" products.

Question on new brass, does anyone advise anything but running a mandrel through the neck before loading? Those who dress primer pockets and flash holes, kindly ignore this.

WR Moore
Friday, December 5, 2008, at 07:23:41 (ZULU)

Bravo: GPS thingy, huh? Why am I always the last guy to get the word?

WR Moore: I neck size and trim to length. Doesn't everybody?

Return to flashlight country: For those few of us who aren't ready to throw our 6Ps in the trash, how good are the CREE Q5 Replacement Bulbs for Surefire Flashlights? (Click) 275 Lumens seems like overkill. Thoughts?

CDC'
Friday, December 5, 2008, at 12:50:00 (ZULU)

My two bits worth on building AR's (I've done 3 or 4 over the years).

I agree on the "tac-latch" thingy.... catches on your gear whilst carrying on a sling in particular, unlatching the latch. I also agree on the "tactikool" stuff hanging off the front multi-rails. Unless you have "air support" you don' need that stuff, but 'cept for maybe a light.

My old eyes now require optics, but BUIS is good and don't weigh nothin. GGG, Yankee Hill are both good kit. Get the folding front sight as well. A properly mounted (for me) low power scope also "looks" at the standard front sight.

Get a steel gasblock, preferably one that clamps on the barrel rather than using the setscrews.... or better yet, get the factory front sight/sight block (taper pinned on), saw off the sight and mount a clamp-on folding front sight out on the end of the barrel (I believe I used YHM to do this).... longer sight radius that way. Steel gasblock expands at the same rate as the barrel when heated so maybe won't come loose at an inopportune time when the zombies attack.

95%+ of AR accuracy is barrel,the rest is the trigger.... get good ones. The rest of the parts just sorta keep the thing held together. 99% of the bolts out there will properly headspace with 99% of the barrels/extensions....but there's always that 1%....have access to headspace gagues if possible.

I also agree on the "adjustable-length" buttstock.... up here its very handy to shorten the thing when wearing arctic-weight clothing. The cheap ones should be thrown in the trash.... MagPul makes good 'uns. The best fixed-length ones are the old A1 style...shorter by 5/8" than the A2.

All that and good magazines will git-'er-done.

SteveinButte
Butte, MT, USA - Friday, December 5, 2008, at 13:28:10 (ZULU)

AR stuff...

I just bought a removeable A2 type rear sight that some guru didn't want. I used a hacksaw and a file to cut off the handle part. It works fine with the Aimpoint...co-witness is no biggie....doesn't bother me at all. I use the stock front sight...never touched it. Wierd how $30 can solve a problem that would otherwise cost hundreds of dollars of highly machined, specialized kit...

For my "truck" gun, I bought an A1 fixed carry handle upper reciever (for pennies, since these are all but useless to the AR guru crowd) and added the "E" option windage adjustment knob. I now have adjustment for wind and the two apetures that the A1 handle comes with....it's cheap, simple and rugged as hell....

I use the A1 buttstocks since they cost less than the adjustables... if I had hard armor, I'd probably have to take a look at the adjust-a-cool ones.

medicjim
Friday, December 5, 2008, at 14:37:29 (ZULU)

medicjim,

I've seen guys with short, fixed stocks. Maybe they cut them down? I don't think the recoil buffer extends the entire length of the stock (?).

CDC' - The sheep herders have had GPS in cell phones for many years now. If I get the gumption, I'll find out how to disable it, but it's not much of a concern for me. To truly get 'off grid' you need to forfeit (nearly) all electrical/electronic appliances.

Duman
Friday, December 5, 2008, at 16:01:24 (ZULU)

Duman, disabling the GPS function in a phone is now a felony. The government wants to know where you are, and it's illegal to not tell them on demand.

Short fixed stock country: it was Geoff M that turned me on to the Sully. On an AR15, I won't have anything else! I ran the A1 until something better came along - the entry stock (AKA stubby stock) - with optional 1" extra buttplate. Still a touch too short. The Sully? It's 100%! I had Geoff machine out a cavity in the stock (it's solid as made, no cavity for cleaning kit) and fitted an A2 buttplate to it. Other than the mountain of green plastic shavings, everything was cool ;-) You're right, the buffer tube for the Sully is a different length than the A1 buffer tube - same length as a carbine tube, but without the lugs on the bottom.

On the XCRs, I run the MagPul CTR stock. Not because I'm a big believer in telescoping stocks, but because I need the cheek riser that the CTR stock has as an option. Since an AR bolt-over malf is impossible with the XCR (and there is no purpose for the buffer tube other than holding the stock on), I'm not too concerned about damaging the CTR.

And Jim, I'm with you too. For strictly iron sight use, I've come to the conclusion that the A1 is THE way to go.

Bill - you can turn it off, but they can turn it on at whim. My uncle called the police station dispatch to alert them of a driver that was obviously drunk - a danger to himself and everyone else on the road. They can turn it on, even though you have it off. The info they had on him, just from that, was bothersome.

I just thought I was back in coms. Turns out that I can dial out, but can't receive any calls. Something wrong with the network, and they couldn't figure it out. Got the alert when I heard the beep of a voice mail, but the phone hadn't rung earlier..... Wes, Geoff, I'll call this weekend ;-)

Bravo
Friday, December 5, 2008, at 17:03:21 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Couldn't you just get a tracphone at Walmart if you don't want to be found??

Pat
Friday, December 5, 2008, at 20:14:02 (ZULU)

Ok, I'll bite. I haven't made my 'smart-ass quota' for the day, yet.

Bravo, you sure you have the ringer on?

On the GPS thingy, the first thing I did with my last phone, was turn it off. But that was about 2 years ago. Didn't know they actually made a law about it now. I wonder about Canada, if they did it here too. Probably. You'd think it would screw up the signals from our tracking device implants though.

Shutting up now,,,, but I couldn't resist.....;)

Sean T.
Winnipeg,, Manitoba, Canada - Friday, December 5, 2008, at 21:29:10 (ZULU)

PBS ran a mini-series called "The Last Enemy" or something like that. It was a system in Britain in the distant (?) future that had total information access (system was called T.I.A.). Sensor and camera networks everywhere, all data fed into central database. RFID tags implanted under your skin.... also a DNA based tracking 'serum', which had the negative side effect of killing. Selectively. Selection was based on certain DNA sequences, which only Arabs carried.

And, of course, the government was the only one trusted with this system.

Duman
Friday, December 5, 2008, at 22:20:17 (ZULU)

Is it wrong and perverted to think of a riffle as a sexual object? This afternoon I held in my very own arthritic paws an unfired Smith Corona 1903A3. A guy, and this is no joke, brought it in to have a scope mounted on it.

My gun shop owner buddy didn't even get irritated when I droolled on it to the point of a puddle on the floor. He handed me a greasy rag and just told me to clean up when I was finished.

It doesn't take much to make me happy, Bolt out!

Bolt
NC, - Friday, December 5, 2008, at 23:11:33 (ZULU)

re: Surefire P60 Q5 upgrades:

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11709150

"First rule: Don't buy Drop-ins from Ebay.

2nd rule: Get a handmade version ideally from some of the U.S.A. modifiers. [snip]

The ebay versions that Say Cree R2 or Cree Q5 are pushing about 117 to 124 lumens, but are advertised anywhere from 200 to 400 lumens.

It takes some hands on work on the reflector and/or lens to make those go over 200 lumens. Here are two venders that make the Handmade versions."

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop2/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_8

http://www.tacticalnightvision.com/illumination.htm

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 6, 2008, at 01:16:10 (ZULU)

Boltster,

I hope you offered to buy the guy a new hunting-type riffle and trade straight-up for that '03.

I got my 1942 USMC rebarrel 1903 from a country gun shop- it was a guy's deer rifle before I got my fingers on it.

Doc Mac
The Cradle of Naval Aivation, - Saturday, December 6, 2008, at 02:16:42 (ZULU)

Bolt: "Is it wrong and perverted to think of a riffle as a sexual object?"

Yes to both.

RR: Thanks.

CDC'
Saturday, December 6, 2008, at 02:39:51 (ZULU)

CDC - you're welcome.

Appreciate the original idea - reworking my collection of 6P's makes more sense than buying a bunch of new flashlight bodies and lamps, and it's far cheaper too.

I'm going to switch my existing 6P family weapon lights to use Q5 lamp assemblies and 18650 batteries. Those batteries will be cheaper in the long run, and lots better runtime too. The LED lamps are much brighter, longer lived and more shock-resistant too. What a win-win option! I was planning in changing my P60 and P61 halogen lamp assemblies to LEDs in any case, so the timing was good.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 6, 2008, at 03:13:52 (ZULU)

"...Didn't know they actually made a law about it now. I wonder about Canada, if they did it here too. Probably. You'd think it would screw up the signals from our tracking device implants though..."

Sean and Others: In the U.S. by the end of Dec 2005, the E911 system was mandated. All new carrier phones had to have the ability to do the tower triangulation, etc tracking. Now with GPS getting less expensive - they probably have additional localization ability.

Calvin -- saw a note from you the other day--- been buried -- will pull it up and answer too...

Take care out there,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Saturday, December 6, 2008, at 03:32:49 (ZULU)

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/12/05/arena.obama.citizenship.cnn?iref=24hours

Finally CNN says something.

Wonderful !

Regards,

Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, Usa - Saturday, December 6, 2008, at 11:24:12 (ZULU)

Remember today !

Pearl harbor!

May they rest in Peace !

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, Usa - Sunday, December 7, 2008, at 13:02:53 (ZULU)

Joisey...

What you said!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, December 7, 2008, at 15:14:01 (ZULU)

Do any of you know of cost effective (cheapest) way to get a good .308 barrel put on a 700? Hart and Shilen want $600+ plus another $120 or so for flutes.

CDC'
Monday, December 8, 2008, at 03:37:59 (ZULU)

CDC:

Give Rock Creek Barrels a call. Mike Rock's barrels are well-respected. Armament Technology was using them in their M24 pattern Rem 700 rifles. I have two of Mike Rock's barrels, one in .308 Win on a Savage 110, another in .223 Rem on an AR15 pattern stick.

http://www.rockcreekbarrels.com/index.htm

http://www.rockcreekbarrels.com/prices.htm

Rebarreling

We also do limited gunsmithing work. Currently we are limited to rebarreling Remington 700 actions only. We do not do finish work or stock work at this time.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, December 8, 2008, at 03:48:21 (ZULU)

I do some amateur gunsmithing. I am not a professional. $.02:

The Shilen short chambered, pre-threaded barrels from Brownells are probably the cheapest way to go for a good result. The Shaw barrels are not quite as good, though I have used one on a plinker (wish I had used the Shilen). The Shilens are better. It is not that hard to replace a barrel and finish-ream it. It is just a matter of having the tools and patience. There should be a shop near you that can do it cheaper than through Shilen. In most cases, you will be happy with the pre-chambered Shilen barrel. And it is the cheapest route. Not cheap. But least expensive.

Depending on what you want to spend, you might also get your action trued and bolt lapped (but you know this).

P. Hayden
USA - Monday, December 8, 2008, at 07:54:32 (ZULU)

The last riffle I rebarreled, I used a fully chambered Douglas Air Aauge.

They are an idiots delight to fit if you have access to a lathe and a barrel wrench. Just cut back the the face of the barrel shoulder and check with a gauge (or a new case that has been measured for headspace). You don't have to remove very much - 5 to 10 thou is typical.

They shoot fairly well.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, December 8, 2008, at 13:06:09 (ZULU)

CDC- it's been decades since I had new rifle brass to play with. What with auld age encroachment, I flat don't remember what I used to do! IIRC, I just stuffed it full and shot it, but my standards have gone up over time.

About the GPS/tower triangulation thingy. You can always turn the phone on and tape it to the nearest long haul truck/Greyhound. Use one of the cash only disposables- thousands of drug dealers can't be wrong:)))

WR Moore
Monday, December 8, 2008, at 20:47:00 (ZULU)

CDC: G.A. Precision charges $315 for a Bartlein, Schneider or Obermeyer barrel, installed.

http://www.gaprecision.net/services.html

Simone
New Mexico, - Tuesday, December 9, 2008, at 00:48:46 (ZULU)

Simone

I didn't get the impression that it was installed - I think that is for the raw barrel blank, unchambered.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, December 9, 2008, at 01:29:34 (ZULU)

I have never changed a barrel and have a naive question: If I had another barrel fitted on (to?) my Model 700 varmint rifle, how big of a deal is it to buy the vice and barrel wrench then to take the new barrel off and put my 6mm barrel back on? Are there any non-obvious potential problems?

How feasable is it to buy a short chambered Shilen then to use the technique described in the link (click) to install the barrel?

CDC'
Tuesday, December 9, 2008, at 11:44:12 (ZULU)

Anyone else getting html link spam mail from illiterate jackasses? I suspect that it originates from the email links here. The account here is otherwise very protected from such BS; my spam account is overrun with such stuff. Well, 33 of these jammed my outlook's sync with this server...so I ended up using the remote access feature to go in and purge the crap; once I did so, the outlook sync went like clockwork. If anyone else uses this domain and has problems---try doing that. As for the spam--it has a shifting return addy that is BS--so blocking is only marginally useful.

Joe M
Tuesday, December 9, 2008, at 14:51:51 (ZULU)

CDC...

It is easier to fit a full chambered barrel than a short chambered barrel..

Once fitted, they can be changed back and forth with a barrel wrench.

The Rem recoil lug is held in place with a jig when barrels are first put on. This is why you can drop most any Rem 700 into a stock that has been glass bedded to a different 700 action - they really do match each other - without this jig, the recoil lug can wind up anyplace, even out the side :)))

If you are going to switch barrels, the lug needs to be pinned in place so you can swap barrels while the lug stays locked in the same place each time. It is a pain in the ass to pin a lug and most smiths won't do it.

However, once the lug has been pinned in palce, and you have a barrel wrench, you can swap barrels.

Have you considered a cheaper and simpler solution...

... buy a second rifle :)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, December 9, 2008, at 15:41:57 (ZULU)

Looking at buying a Remington LTR right now due to its excellent price point. The trigger on it is excellent and when shooting, it shoots sub MOA. The trigger is silver color, very crisp and with a clean break. The crown on it is nice. The rifle itself looks like a keeper. It appears to be that quality control is being implemented here.

Looking for thoughts and opinions on this rifle.

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Tuesday, December 9, 2008, at 17:36:16 (ZULU)

Darren: This begs a smart ass question:))

"...and when shooting, it shoots sub MOA."

Sooooo....what's it do when not???

A few answers came to mind; such as Lito's usage for rem barrels: It holds a tomato plant up in the garden...

But to the serious aspect of your question: if they got'er right, I'd like to know too:))

Joe M
Tuesday, December 9, 2008, at 19:56:17 (ZULU)

Joe, yeah your right. Silly question...it drinks beer and hangs out with the semi crowd... ;-)

What I am thinking here is that the rifle is well built which surprised me. So I am just looking for general manufacturing info on the current crop of LTR coming out. How they are building it and how the quality control is making it a solid rifle. I am seriously thinking of buying it very soon.

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Tuesday, December 9, 2008, at 20:21:21 (ZULU)

US political humor of the day:

If Obama wanted to help out the economy he could announce that

there is no reason to stock up on cars because he has no intention of banning them once he is in office.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 00:21:28 (ZULU)

Darren:

Run of the mill factory barrels can vary a lot in quality. If you have shot a specific example and are happy with *that* unit, buy it.

The big hint is what will the vendor guarantee as under-warranty accuracy. People pay big dollars for expensive rifles and barrels because of that guarantee (explicit or implicit).

First-tier factory hunting-quality rifles typically have (say) 2 MOA as the implicit guarantee. Anything better than that on specific unit is a bonus. It's been getting better, we're seeing better triggers and barrels on first-tier products, probably in part because consumers are becoming more savvy and demanding.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 00:30:27 (ZULU)

Darren I have owned 4 LTRs; 3 in 308 and one in 223. The first was a DM model, when they first came out, the others all had floor plates. All have shot sub MOA with both Fed Match and my habdloads.

The handiness of these little buggers is their big plus as far as I'm concerned.

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 02:33:54 (ZULU)

'Lito- Stupid question here. If the recoil lug is such an ass pain to pin, why can't it be welded on the back side to the action before the barrel is removed?

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 03:17:06 (ZULU)

Click for a vid of a 'smith pinning a recoil lug.

Yyyeeeee HAAAHHH!!! We're having fun now.

CDC'
Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 03:43:44 (ZULU)

Update on Remington LTR - Wife just told me at Home Depot to buy it and consider it my Christmas present. This has been a good year. Got the wife a Glock 19, my daughter a 10/22 now the Remington....

Darren
East Bay , CA, USA - Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 05:06:23 (ZULU)

'lito, your right, I am sure.

But the criteria was "cheapest"; a lathe costs quite a bit. ;-) If you have a full-size lathe, you probably have all the other tools, too, and you can do a better job than I can do with a hand-turned finish reamer and a set of gages. But I have finish-reamed a lot of barrels, and I know this works. Go-no-go gages are sort of simple. The whole job is done with circa 1925 manual armory tools, and you can make the wrench and vice (but buy the bushings).

The Shilen short-chambered barrels are almost idiot-proof, and relatively cheap. They give you a lot of control over the chamber length if you go slow and have a new reamer.

Changing a barrel on a Remington 700 is pretty easy, but they really weren't made for back-and-forth switches. Better to build a new rifle on a used action for a different caliber.

pmhayden
USA - Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 08:29:24 (ZULU)

You can rent reamers and headspace gauges. Click.

Just developing options.

CDC'
Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 12:48:23 (ZULU)

Anyone have any experience with the Hornady 45 gr. Hornet in a .223? It appears to be the bullet of choice for .22 Hornet, bu I wonder if it'll stand up to the higher velocity of the .223 loading?

On a related note, for all you levergunners out there, was the Winchester 94 ever made in .22 Hornet? I'm considering using my Buffalo Bill commemorative as a project gun, redone in .22 Hornet. Ought to make a dandy coyote/varmint gun to carry horseback. I know I can get the barrel, but would it be too much trouble to change the internals, without payin to get NKJ a new truck?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 13:36:34 (ZULU)

I've owned some 7 sakos over the years--not one shot poorly, all under 1 MOA in hunting configs with premium factory hunting loads. Knowing my sampling lacks conclusive data points--I still will say Sakos (and older Tikkas) are unfailingly accurate little buggers without reservation. But I am still drawn to Winnies and pre-64 style FNs out of nostalgia or american pride (FNs?--well, it isn't much of a stretch with the partnership, the SC plant and the designs of Browning)--and i like remmies for the build-up potential without the payoff to Surgeons (lustfully wishing i had a few), and even after being burned with recent sh!tty QC--I still love S&W revolvers. While knowing better--I still want a good american made product--even if it needs a little help getting there:) It is almost a subconscious draw.

My PBR seems to be a decent stick so far; it doesn't like the 150 SSTs as much as the Howa does, but still keeps them right at 1 MOA off the bags. Since it is a mid weight stick, all I wanted was hunting accuracy for now--and I got more than enough to be happy. I bet it will sing with match stuff:))

Today is the big real estate strategy session for the second front in the legal war...a pincer movement. I think I know what needs to happen next--but it still is a question rather than a COA. Today should be enlightening.

Joe M
Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 13:57:32 (ZULU)

Hey Ya'll,

Looking for a fast change on your barrels....? Why not get a savage ? Yeah, I know they seem crude but they are easy as can be to rebarrel. ( and this is from a guy with a lathe )

Travis,

Projectiles designed for the hornet have a tendency to come apart in fast twist barrels at faster than hornet velocities... As for the 94 question I don't recall ever seeing any 94's in hornet but I did see a 12 inch 92 in 32-20 that a guy used for years hunting gators....

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 14:06:11 (ZULU)

I recently had GAP turn a .308 into a switch barrel. I now have a .308 and a .243 rifle on the same action. The lug was pinned like Lito commented on. All I have to do to switch barrels is to take the action out of the stock, clamp the barrel in the vice, unscrew the action, screw the action onto the new barrel and snug the action down.

There are no gauges involved, it's just as simple as that.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, TX, United States - Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 14:09:03 (ZULU)

Thanks for the well wishes guys.

I am excited but will miss my beloved Texas.

Be safe Charles. Mind your scalp/6.

brian k. sain
Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 14:18:10 (ZULU)

BKS: I haven't lived in Texas since 83, but these friggin' upper midwestern winters make me miss the place too. It is one thing to "think about the winter" and quite another to deal with the winters year after year. I'm a bit critical right now due to the first major accumulation of snow; everyone clings to their summer driving habits, and I get tired of dodging spinning cars on my intentionally-limited forrays into town:) Some of these clowns subscribe to Darwinism and volunteer as case studies all on their own! So far I've had three close calls that came down to inches this week. Then there's the hassles of outdoor work...fun in the subzeros. Florida is looking better all the time...

I love watching the simultaneous deflation of raw materials and energy, the printing of un-earned currencies, the collapse of credit and the promise of more "spending" to undo all of it. I tend to think of the Kent narrows bridge right now as opposed to the trend line of a roller coaster. The oscillations are really out of control, but due to the lag time between the fluctuations, it doesn't "appear" to be anything but a direction (today, it is downward on prices). Business cycles are studied as related to a mean, and that thinking has experts wishfully believing that the market peak was excessive--the bottom will be equally excessive--and the mid point is our recovery; just as it had been in any recesion before. But the obvious problem seems to be overlooked: Credit died, and most corps lost finacing and began laying off---lots of jobs last year evaporated. Demand fell accordingly (no money, no credit, no buying) which propagates the cycle again and again--more lay offs, more excess capacity idled, less shit on the shelves for the rest of us. Enter Uncle Sam: We shall just print money! Another round of IRS bonus checks to the masses! So, let's look again: Decline in pricing forces cuts in production, making less "stuff" available. Dump a large pile of newly made purchasing power into the system...and watch the price spikes take the whole mess the other direction. The yang to our current yin is the next peak wave that will cause pain like none yet. HyperInflation. The problem is one we are all familiar with, albeit on the fringes: deficit spending is sometimes necessary. Want a house? Buy on credit. It makes sense to do so, doesn't it? same for governments: want a war? want a national highway system? Buy on credit. These are necessities---WWII was kinda needed, and the highway systems paid back handsomely---a smart investment of our future wage earner's money. But, the downside is revolving, unsecured debt spending for us consumers, eh? Buying crap we could live without (and have, if you didn't have it already) or continuing to live beyond your means long after the paycheck failed to keep up. Well, the government did the same thing with their deficits--they just spend on anything and everything without regard to what might pay us back over time (infrastructure) or who will pick up the tab afterward (treasuries). The world did pick up the tab for a long while, but looking at the current global situation--who will buy our debt next year? No-loan money printing? Great for gold owners, I suppose. 6.6 billion people are about to compete for newly scarce resources...and the march down this path has proven to be as irresistable as I stated: A new round of bailouts (printing) and a new round of "stimulous" (more printing) is on short-final even now.

I am more convinced than ever that the only way out was (yes, past tense) to take the pain now by letting the market correct and rebuild from its own excesses; slash spending by the government (yes, a depression) and shore up the dollar as we move to a backed currency; refocus on the charter of government without the extra-cirriculars (by slashing departments wholesale)--and leave the money in the hands of those who earned it by scaling back on taxes. The problem isn't the markets--never was until the government got involved. Now, we have the government involved in fixing government involvement???

Marie Antoinette comes to mind.

This path unfolding before us has only just now getting noticed by a minority view that it is hugely wrong. Experts? On what? De-coupling? That has proven brilliant by testing:)) (sarcasm) By using the US dpression alone as a model? Then why not the Weimar Republic's efforts too? Classic case of "yeah, but we'll do the same thing differently because we are better than they were." The point is--our history had a system of systems we called our economy; now it is a global system of systems with the underlying systems within systems at the local level meshed together...a Japanese default on a loan can close a bank in Portland (pick one). It only looks the same to these experts because they focus on their pet indicators....speaking of which--anyone else concerned about the drop off in shipping? Over 70% fall-off this last year:))

The bottom line is all these mouths have to eat, and the only way to do that is to blow thru oil like it is sands on the beach. OPEC doesn't like this idea at all, and nobody wants to volunteer to stop eating for the good of the rest--so there is friction. As we ride the sine waves downward, stuff is not being produced...as congress tries to step in to puff it all back up again, more dollars will chase fewer goods...and that math is easy to figure.

The only question remaining is where will it start to unravel? The dollar? The food supply? The EU? China? I'm an "all of the above" theorist: It will unravel so fast everywhere that no one will be able to pin point the start.

And, because the depression of the 30s is our model--assumptions are made on social order now as it was then. This completely ignores the demographics (a second tier thought process that lazy experts tend to leave out). Back then most americans were pretty self sufficient before the crashes; now most are far more dependant than they even understand. Just look at rural vs. Urban data then and now for a snapshot of what I mean.

The experts will catch up the same time the laymen gets his understanding, I suppose---when it happens.

Joe M
Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 15:30:23 (ZULU)

Travis:

Given the pointy projectiles on .22 Hornet cartridges, I can't see them being compatible with a tube magazine fed rifle. Since the W94 is tube magazine fed, I have my doubts they were ever offered in .22 Hornet.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 16:31:02 (ZULU)

re: winter driving country

The locals here also seem to forget how to drive on snow when they encounter the first major snowfall of the season.

My family in Florida get a kick out of my winter reports from here.

Quebec now has law requiring real snow tires in-season. Makes sense to me. None of this "all-season radials" BS!

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 16:34:52 (ZULU)

Joe, as usual we come at the same topic from different directions - but get to the same place in the end.

It's not inflation that I concern myself with, as when it goes from inflation to hyperinflation we've already gone over the falls. What I concern myself with is a superheated market. That's my personal engraved invitation to pack up the truck (and anything else I can get my hands on) and practice the G.O.O.D. (Get Out Of Dodge) maneuver.

It won't take even the dumbest of amirikan residents long to figure out the winning technique: "I've got thousands of greenbacks, but I can't buy anything 'cause inventory isn't available - so I'll buy ANYTHING to protect the value of these greenbacks from rampant inflation.... I can always trade tangibles for what I want later"

For 2009, I see a significant rise in unemployment and inflation. Not due to anything more than what you've already outlined.

But then again, I've been preaching the 5Gs and 3Bs for a long time now (Get right with God, Ground, Guns, Groceries and only AFTER all that is taken care of - Gold, Beans Bullets Band-aids) and it seems only now some are coming to realize that personal independence isn't such a stupid idea.

You're 100% right - the upcoming "economic tribulations" aren't going to look anything like the Depression of '29, with one exception: Back then, fdr took the opportunity to push government programs down the throats of the amirikan residents. The people clamored for socialism ("who is going to help me?" instead of "how am I going to get myself out of this?"), and he delivered in spades. THAT part, we're going to see again. Unfortunately, what fdr did extended the depression from what the Austrian economists - specifically VonMisen IIRC - had predicted to be a 6 to 18 month episode (and they DID accurately predict the crash!) into a decade long group-grope. Government got us into it, and they're going to KEEP us in it, until we've all been overfed on socialism.

Now for the salt in the wound time. I said way back, early-early in the primaries, that amirika had but only one option for good direction. Only one potential leader had the umph to do EXACTLY what you said needed to be done! Of course, the republicratic party wouldn't have a conservative - or for that matter anyone that actually stands on the republican party platform - so instead we get a socialist. Ah well - I wasted a vote, no doubt..... but then again, so did everyone that voted for the republicratic socialist. Here's a recent quote, from the House floor, from the fellow I espoused for the office of POTUS:

"Today, a major economic crisis is unfolding. New government programs are started daily, and future plans are being made for even more. All are based on the belief that we're in this mess because free-market capitalism and sound money failed. The obsession is with more spending, bailouts of bad investments, more debt, and further dollar debasement. Many are saying we need an international answer to our problems with the establishment of a world central bank and a single fiat reserve currency. These suggestions are merely more of the same policies that created our mess and are doomed to fail."

"The choice we face is ominous: We either accept world-wide authoritarian government holding together a flawed system, or we restore the principles of the Constitution, limit government power, restore commodity money without a Federal Reserve system, reject world government, and promote the cause of peace by protecting liberty equally for all persons. Freedom is the answer." - Congressman Ron Paul. Excerpted from a speech delivered before the U.S. House of Representatives, November 20, 2008

Bravo
Wednesday, December 10, 2008, at 19:24:14 (ZULU)

Jesus Christ.

I go out to make $12 bucks, and you guys get all chatty like a bunch of women critters :))

Darren... the LTR's are pretty Okie Dokie riffles. They don't make them any more (probably cost too much)... but the current version is $1,400+ (ouchie!!)

Get it if the price is anywhere reasonable, and give the ol lady a hug... she's a keeper!

CDC...

Renting reamers is like renting women - you never know where they been or what's been done to them, and they are usually pretty wore out by the time you get them.

Travis...

The Hornady 45 Hornet is an outstanding bullet - don't go faster than 3,500 fps in a 14" twist, or proportionally slower in faster twist barrels, or they will blow up before they get to the target...

You can't get the 94 to function with a 22 Hornet... OK ok, ANYTHING is possible if you throw enough money at it, but I doubt that you have enough money for this project.

Look for a Browning copy of the Winchester 65 in 218 Bee - does what you want with no effort - should be able to find one for $800-$900 - which is about 25% of what it would cost to do a 94.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, December 11, 2008, at 00:15:50 (ZULU)

Lito:

That's a great line on chamber reamers :-)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, December 11, 2008, at 02:59:16 (ZULU)

"Renting reamers is like renting women - you never know where they been or what's been done to them, and they are usually pretty wore out by the time you get them."

The difference is the reamers are satisfaction guaranteed or you choose between a different one or your money back. You - of all people - should appreciate that.

CDC'
Thursday, December 11, 2008, at 04:11:40 (ZULU)

-------The difference is the reamers are satisfaction guaranteed or you choose between a different one or your money back. You - of all people - should appreciate that.------

There was a place in Phuket, Thailand that offered the same deal for women;-) Not like any of us cared, it's all monopoly money to young Marines anyways.

Renting women isn't bad, it's when you buy outright that you get yourself in deep trouble.

Current nice M 65's in 218 Bee are listing at $1200+. An uncle of mine has one, it's interesting to shoot, but I'd just as soon get a cheapie bolt gun in 223 or a CZ527 in 22 Hornet.

Somebody's got a M1892 conversion to 218 Bee on GunsAmerica right now. Lord only knows who did the work or how well. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Thursday, December 11, 2008, at 09:16:06 (ZULU)

Hey YA'll,

Any of you heathens got a good load for a .222 ? I have a remington 700 classic that is not any where near what I consider up to snuff. It will do 1.5 moa with handloads and is somewhere near the 3.5 moa mark with factory fodder... Looking down the barrel is looks as if the button slipped on the mandrel and the rifling has a definite 'skip' in it... Kinda makes me think my best bet would be to rebarrel it to .223....

Bravo,

Was out and about last night and stopped in for some chinese food.... Fortune cookie came up with this little gem... " an empty belly is a poor political adviser ".

Keep the faith

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Thursday, December 11, 2008, at 12:55:17 (ZULU)

Guys,

I had some paint wear on some recesses on my HK. I picked up a lacquer stick from Brownell's, rubbed it into the groove, wiped away the rest. Works ok, but it remains 'flaky' and is easily rubbed out.

I then picked up some 'touch up' paint from Checker Auto, with the fine pen tip applicator. Works great! Drys tough. Even comes in colors 'Lito would appreciate (PINK!).

FWIW, YMMV.

Duman
Thursday, December 11, 2008, at 16:26:23 (ZULU)

Calvin on the 700 in .222

Assume you have checked/tested the usual:

- tried some good factory ammo

- confirmed projectile weight choice compatible w/barrel twist rate

- confirmed projectile "jump" to barrel throat

- checked barrel/stock clearance,

- action screw torque

- wandering scope

- loose scope rings/mount

- dinged crown check

- cleaned brl

In that case, it's probably just a crummy factory barrel. Got any tomatoes that need a stake? .223 Rem would be a better chambering choice today, given the superior brass and ammo availability compared to .222. We now know how to make good accuracy .223 Rem loadings. Many years ago, .222 was the darling of the benchrest crowd.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, December 11, 2008, at 16:43:58 (ZULU)

CDC',

I pulled a barrel off of a 700-ADL. Remmy put some type of gunk on the thereads, which made it tough to remove. I had purchased a barrel vise, et. al., from Brownell's. Same unit from other vendors are ~1/2 the price (I learned...). A few Bench resters (on low budgets) swap barrels frequently.

Ken M - Phuket, Pattaya, Saddahipe(sp?)... some of the most beautiful women on the planet...(sigh)

You guys talk about lathes. What size/flavors of lathes do you have that enable you to do barrel work? I'm interested, may start perusing for one.

Duman
Thursday, December 11, 2008, at 17:18:28 (ZULU)

Ken M: Try renting a Governor this time around:) It looks like you'll be two for two on felons when you buy outright with the vote:)) And hey, before he gets the boot, can ya ask what a cushy state job is going for these days? I'm outta work...

Calvin: Got the book, BTW:) And rebarreling should not be a question of better handloads with skipped rifling visible like that:) The answer I'd choose is a new pipe, reamed for what you were thinking: 223. 223 should be the last ammo supply to dry up if ammo becomes "scarce" for any number of reasons. My winnie stealth (1:9) also needs a new barrel. Been looking at Rock's before the big D dropped on my head. My plan is to go with 1:8 or faster for all .223 projects going forward. I also need to build an AR upper, one with at least 18" of barrel. IMHO, ya just can't have enough 223 launchers:) Now, the question remains: Yankee Hill flash hiders, threaded for suppressors and new barrels cut to that spec, or standard threading off the M16 spec for the same on all future barrels??? Standard threads opens up options; YH is proprietary but quicker all around for swaps and more bearing surface means greater strength and durability over time (considered due to only getting one can for now that will go from gun to gun). Yeah, I know--why bother? But if ya ever need one, having one helps. And 14.5" barrels are loud...

Bravo: This is question all your fault:))

Joe M
Thursday, December 11, 2008, at 17:25:28 (ZULU)

Patron Lito; as the Holidays approach I realised I have misplaced my formula for the Mogantani.

Has anyone got comeups handy for the Garand in 30/06?

Joe, I have never had the itch for full auto, but a $200 stamp for a supressor seems like a bargain to me.

I have been lusting for a .17 furball for a year now, I think Santa may be listening...(finaly) ; ) Wish lists guys?

Lathes, finaly something I can give good advice about. For threading the best most repeatable I ever used was a Cincinati Milacron made in 1956. Monarch is the same machine w/different name. The older and heavier are more accurate for one-off work than anything with cnc or digital BS

4eyes
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Thursday, December 11, 2008, at 22:21:20 (ZULU)

Lathes and such.. Well depends on how much ya know about them and what your experience level is and how much money ya got... Gotta agree with 4i's on the older machines... With that said alot of the older machines are 'high mileage' units and unless you know what your looking at they can be a nightmare... Then there are the new imported chinese things... which are a surprising good deal.( it pains me to say that) Best I can tell ya is educate your self. Best place to start is get 'how to run a lathe' from lindsey ( sp? ) publications. Be the best ten bucks you ever spent... It was written for southbend in 1942.. Most machining operations on a manual lathe have not changed since 1900 or so.. What ever you decide on.. make sure it's three phase and your generate your own three phase power. Once youv'e used equipment that runs on 3 ph you will be hooked. Tesla was a true genius! If you have any other questions hit me off line and I'll let you in on my experience with stuff....

Stay safe

calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Thursday, December 11, 2008, at 23:15:23 (ZULU)

For them that wants to try their hand at pipe fitting, may I recomend a good read?

"The complete Illustrated Guide to Precision Rifle Barrel Fitting"

By John L. Hinnant.

Oh and FYI the lathe is only the start.

Tooling is where it's at. Your money that is.LOL

Regards,

Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, Usa - Thursday, December 11, 2008, at 23:35:55 (ZULU)

I'll be at a very large gun show this weekend...anyone looking for something special, send me an email from the roster, let me know what to look for and give me a number to call if I find it.

medicjim
Friday, December 12, 2008, at 00:26:54 (ZULU)

I'll second the tooling comment... I probably have 4x the cost of my lathe in tooling and I'm still looking for goodies... Enco and MSC are your friends..

Hinnant's tome is a good un'. Does a good job of explaining why things are done the way they are done...

A copy of 'machinery handbook' is a good thing to have around too... Don't waste money on a new one... hunt one down at a used book store. They haven't changed a whole lot since the 40's.....

I like the Jerry Kuhnhausen books too... lot's of good info there to.

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Friday, December 12, 2008, at 00:51:55 (ZULU)

4i's: Full auto is a waste of money:)) Kewl factor 10, practicality 0. |If your problems include human-wave tactics against, you really only need one bullet and a wundernine any damned way...unless you gots more friends than you have atoms. But if you gotta have it, have it; 3rd burst is for sissies and bean counters:) Suppression, OTOH, is very useful if only to preserve hearing. The many other great uses require little imagination...

I was just perusing the global credit crisis in terms of governmental responses. Yeach! I scared myself silly:))

First, within our lifetime, we will likely see Helicopter Ben Bernacke become the most hated man in history.

OK, so why? It has occured to me tonight that every last historical model only hints at what we are facing---not a single one is useful in and of itself as a guide. Not one. And that isn't a good thing---not at all. Argentina and Weimar-Germany offer some clues,but are closed-loop examples. What I saw in my little forray into economic policy is a looming global currency collapse---no fiat money is safe at this point. Wow..those whascally bond markets are screwed (click--this article started my curiosity tonight). Most developed countries and the EU (heheh) have begun the print-money rescue plan ala bernacke...and investment is at a standstill. Read that as "manufacturing" and "services" and "employment"---all these are driven by investments and these are not being driven very far right now--and the death spiral is well underway (unemployment, less stuff, less buyers, less profit, more unemployment, repeat). And, all the while, the world governments are borrowing nothing from the future and issuing it willy-nilly. That money will soon corner every market on the planet...what is worse than hyperinflation? We shall soon need a new word. Armeggedinflation? Worldendflation? Bigbangflation? Penultinflation?

I can picture all these governments grabbing their gas cans and running to the rescue as the global economy burns. Duh.

Ya know, a currency (fiat) collapses against its peers...but what if they all do? What is it then measured against? If the dollar is undergoing rapid inflation, but is stable against the Euro and the yen, what is the fed response? Not a tool in the kit for that nut! And, nothing like that ever happened before.

Well, all those dumb assed euro weenies that fantasized about de-coupling (vis a vis the US economy) may finally realize how stupid they were. To look at the last 12 months is to see a concerted effort by the EU to crush the dollar; my guess is they were in a hurry to install the Euro as the OPEC peg. Heheh, and it occurs to me just now that in all the current confusion that it will be ten years or more for the economists to finally understand that those anti dollar policies hastened this mess along. It was coming; maybe not this fast or all at once anyway--but these EU monetary policies did far more than merely make it harder to stop the mess--they possibly started it:)) And you heard it here first. Heck---I gotta think on this some more...I'm just now looking beyond the US economy/ government policy (disasterous IMHO) at the rest of the world, and what it all might mean. I coulda just typed "awwwwshit" and been done with my initial impression right there.

The US is actually in position to weather this---the snivelling masses will wilt, but the country as a whole has reserves that few others have...but going from here and now to the 1880s may not be fun for a bunch of us:)))

Joe M
Friday, December 12, 2008, at 04:04:40 (ZULU)

iiii's :)

Take a 4oz glass. The Mogan Tanni is two parts of Morgan's Dark spiced Run, to one part Lime Jooce (concentrated from the little green plastic limes is good). Crushed ice is OK.

Drink the second one while sitting on the floor - that way, you won't fall so far :))

You will like the 17 FurBall... I have a 700 CDL Ltd SF and it's a lot of fun.

Joe M...

I heard one yesterday that is frighting - America is reaching the point where the people cannot earn/generate enough money to support it's own government, and the government is getting so large the the people can no longer control it (voting every four years means nothing in the larger scheme of things).

And it is true. 90% of the public thinks the government is garbage and can't be trusted, hates the way congress is working, and does not trust the president.

We just spent nearly a billion dollars in a two year campaign... and "we" elected for "Change we can believe in", and nothing changed.

The "people"... each and every one of us, down to the new born baby next door, now owes ~$67,000 to the government, and the total interest for the national debt is ~$1,200,000,000,000 (that's 1.2 TRILLION) a year - we cannot generate enough in taxes to pay the interest and also pay all of the costs of government... and we keep electing these assholes?

What is the old sage about - the definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

I friggin' L-O-V-E the new "Non partisan" Health Czar, Tom Daschle. There has never been a more hate filled partisan SOB who walked the earth than Tom Daschle... and the fuckin' asshole couldn't order a dozen boxes of band-aids, and now he is the Health Czar - Ahhh "Change you can believe in"... I love those Madison Avenue slogans.

Talk about "Pay back"... All this change is gonna come from recycled Clintonista leftovers and rejects.

This country really need a change, and I am afraid that it ain't gonna come at the ballot box.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, December 12, 2008, at 11:33:13 (ZULU)

Pablo: These are the same comically corrupt and incompetent Socialist hacks but conditions are wildly different. There's going to be change alright. Fasten your seat belt, a mutant cross between Huey Long and Baby Huey is at the wheel.

CDC'
Friday, December 12, 2008, at 12:26:24 (ZULU)

Lito: Slash and burn is--rather--was our way out--slashing Governmental overhead, that is. And that little bit about "who is paying for all this?" hasn't really sunk in yet at the macro level:)) But the realization that our national debt is a liar's loan taken out by paupers will eventually sink in and the true fun begins. Fortunately, there are a few other global problems that may collapse first--making the collapse here moot as to "why."

Yeah---thought about the globe last night a bunch: ALL currencies of consequence are being printed and dumped on markets--the business cycle is at or near a bottom redefined each day at 4pm est, and commodities are caught in a vortex of simultaneous downward and upward movements (lack of buying due to business and a desire to safe haven against inflationary trends---conflicting as hell and leading to the roght-now collapse of bond yields). Folks think cheap oil is good and great, and as is typical of Americans, they are right as far as "right now" goes--but what it means in a larger sense is not so happy. Metals collapsed from their August highs---a bubble for sure--and now these commodities have a new downward pressure of nobody wanting them. Its like a perfect storm:))

But what is really funny is that the EU decided to short the dollar while sitting on a hoard of US treasuries in their central reserves. "Hey, I gotta an idea--let's ignore the fact that our worthless paper currency is underpinned with USD reserves and instead, lets make our paper worth more than the paper underneath it." Brilliant, IMHO.

My realization is this: We are used to measuring economic data against other elements of the same data---yen against the Euro, etc. Metals are used to measure growth---tight markets mean production somewhere is humming. Oil is overall king here, when it is hard to get--things are cooking along. But when all are moving in the same trendlines (downward)---what do we see when we take a measurement? Everything is the same--seemingly stabilized. A sigh of relief, eh? Not this time---there are other things that are telling us what is realy going on: Unemployment, shipping routes closing down wholesale, evaporation of wealth in securities, and bonds with negative yields on a global scale...like I said last night---this ain't in our historical record...bad ju-ju especially with Heli-Ben touting his historical expertise.

Daschle: Talk about a bad penny...

Socialism is expensive, at least for us so called rich folks:)) I worry less about BO each day---as this stuff unravels--I know there is no chance to re invent our economy into a EU style commie pinko hell...at some point, the greater good will become "its all about me now you bastards" even among registered socialists:)))))

Joe M
Friday, December 12, 2008, at 13:29:19 (ZULU)

CDC',

"Fasten your seat belt, a mutant cross between Huey Long and Baby Huey is at the wheel."

That's funny, and sad. Makes one want to laugh and cry at the same time.

Duman
Friday, December 12, 2008, at 13:39:22 (ZULU)

If the crash doesn't ruin us, turning control of the "Commanding Heights" (click) of the economy over to Chris Dodd and Barney Frank very certainly will. These are lessons we have already learned. (Click dammit) This is going to be an economic and political disaster. For us, I mean. It looks like fat times for the heirs of FDR.

CDC'
Friday, December 12, 2008, at 16:05:34 (ZULU)

Hey guys...

I try to go to CZ at:

http://www.cz-usa.com/

And I get a big gray box that covers the screen that says "loading image"... but it never does, and it never goes away, and I can't access anything on the CZ site.

Any of you guys have the same troubles, or is it my 'puter?

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, December 12, 2008, at 16:13:25 (ZULU)

Lito, nope, got to the site quickly.

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Friday, December 12, 2008, at 16:22:31 (ZULU)

Darren...

When you got to the site, did the CZ webpage come up, then there was a kind of video that played on the screen, and the guy says something like, "That's a lotta gear for a little guy", and a lotta laughter and then a girls voice?

I hear the sound track behind this video box, but the image is gray (I see the CZ page around the edges).

But I can't close the box, cuz the "Close this window" click thing won't work.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, December 12, 2008, at 16:29:01 (ZULU)

The bridge loan for the Big-3 was denied, the UAW refused to reduced wages/benefits prior to expiration of their contract in 2011. Sometimes you have to wonder what they're thinking...

Lito, no problems here, with the CZ site.

Duman
Friday, December 12, 2008, at 16:58:08 (ZULU)

Duman...

Thanks for checking.

>"The bridge loan for the Big-3 was denied, the UAW refused to reduced wages/benefits prior to expiration of their contract in 2011. Sometimes you have to wonder what they're thinking..."<

The UAW has been the problem all along - the auto companies can't fire someone that is drunk on the job - thy have to pay the asshole to stay home.

Bankruptcy is the only solution.

It came out yesterday that General Motors sold 9.4 million cars and Toyota sold 9.3 million cars - yet General Motors lost 34 billion and Toyota made 17 billion (which goes back to Japan).

So, unless something is done about the job banks, and the outrageous bennies, there is no point in "bailing out" the big three, cuz it'll be a few more months and the money will be gone, sucked up by the UAW.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, December 12, 2008, at 17:07:58 (ZULU)

CDC,Joe and the the rest of ya'll,

When you have money who's value is based on debt rather than an objective standard... and you give the power to run the debt up to a cartel of banks what do you think will happen ? The world bank is based on the federal reserve model. There is no way it can sustain it self... it has to crash/lose it's value/destroy real wealth by it's very nature.

Or to put it in simple terms it is an abomination of the natural laws of economics... a freak or a mutant so to speak...it can't live/function with out goverment protection and it will drag what ever government supports it down into the sewers with it. It's a timeless observation that folks produce best when they can keep the fruits of their labor....

This collective " for the good of us all" is economic bullshit. It, simply stated, a lie. I'm flat out sick and tired ( if you can't already tell ) of this idea that "some how capitalism is unfair" and the "enemy" of the people. Just where have we heard this before ? It's just more tired communist dogma that we keep sweeping under the rug/forgetting. It's beyond me why folks are crying out for a system that has killed ( yes killed) more folks and destroyed more real wealth than any other 'system' in the history of the world. Just what is wrong with my fellow citizens ? Sorry for the rant but I've lived in third world countries and why anyone wants to sink to that level is beyond me....

Stay safe

Calvin

PS CDC see what you did !!! ?

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Friday, December 12, 2008, at 17:10:06 (ZULU)

Guys, thanks for the discussion on lathes.

BTW, how big are we talking? For barrel stuff, nothing like turning a prop shaft for an aircraft carrier....

Duman
Friday, December 12, 2008, at 17:24:11 (ZULU)

Duman...

You want a bore of 1.5" to take barrel blanks - a cutting oil flow system is nice too.

It'll probably be cheaper to get a lathe that will cut a prop shaft for an aircraft carrier since America is out of the manufacturing business, BIG lathes are cheaper than shop sized lathes.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, December 12, 2008, at 17:51:54 (ZULU)

Lito, I watched the video and listened to the audio. Everything on the screen is doing what it was designed to do. It might be your computer Lito ;-(

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Friday, December 12, 2008, at 18:03:27 (ZULU)

Duman,

If I had lot's-O-funds I'd take look at nothing smaller than a 10 inch swing ( I have a south bend heavy ten )and nothing large than a 13 inch swing... You can do most anything on a 24 inch bed ( providing the spindle hole is large enough) but a 36 is better and a 40 is about perfect. If this is all greek to you hit me up off line and I'll give ya a bunch more info. ( this is a shooting forum not practical machinist hint ,hint)

Mr. Mahon,

Hey man your all over the new swfa catalog... Cool! I even saw a reference to Sain in there... Also Cool!

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Friday, December 12, 2008, at 18:24:57 (ZULU)

Lito: Close your browser. Delete your cache's, internet temps and history (clean up tool on most utility programs)....then reopen...should be good to go.

Calvin: Whatever "learning" that the EC300/400 level provides---I must admit to being new to the concept of fiat money vs. backed currency in terms of power and corruption. Professors either do not know or they DO know that such understanding in their students would undermine their basic socialist leanings:)) The whole idea of Lincoln's plan to adhere to the strict letter of the constitution, and the power play by bankers against that---very enlightening stuff! And sad---that is the negative that would otherwise be hailed as a turning point in western civilization. It is not hard to imagine the hugely positive changes to the world had he prevailed on what is now universally ignored:)) I suppose he had to fail---revelations would be irrevelations had he succeeded:) God would be quite irate;)) (Rod must know that one)

Joe M
Friday, December 12, 2008, at 19:45:04 (ZULU)

OK, so here's another opinion to back up what Joe and I are getting at (Fortune article):

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0812/gallery.market_gurus.fortune/index.html?cnn=yes

All in all, I hope that "Dr. Doom" is right. Not because I want to see doom, but because his picture of doom is much rosier than what I see in my mind.

Calvin, I've got another little saying that belongs in a chinese fortune cookie "a man with a 1911 never needs to wonder if he will have dinner that evening".

Bravo
Friday, December 12, 2008, at 19:48:51 (ZULU)

Joe M...

I can't find no steeenkin' utilities :(

I read today that Governor "Blogo" ratings were 4% before the scandle - now they are 6%.

A 50% rise in popularity for a felony and trying to cash in by selling a senate seat - that's Chicago politics for you.

You gotta love those people!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, December 12, 2008, at 22:34:06 (ZULU)

Lito on Governor "Blogo":

In a country where a convicted drug "possessor" can be re-elected mayor of a major city, anything is possible :-(

(Marion Barry).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_barry

This surprised me:

Barry also earned a Masters of Science in organic chemistry from Fisk University in 1960. Barry is a member of Alpha Phi Alpha, the first intercollegiate Greek-letter fraternity founded by African Americans. He is also an Eagle Scout.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 13, 2008, at 02:28:28 (ZULU)

Joe:

Douglas Adams referrential quote?

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 13, 2008, at 02:31:22 (ZULU)

Calvin,

What is wrong with our fellow citizens? A majority are intellectually in the retard to average range. It would appear you have to be of above average intelligence to appreciate the fact that certain principles in society need to be protected from the majority for freedom to succeed in the long run.

To be more specific......humanity IS the problem. And human nature is to be shallow, stagnant, and underachieving. Unfortunately, it's also human nature to want it all. Enter the entitlement mentality. Then entire the only system that promises equality for everyone regardless of objective achievement. There you go, it's not rocket science.

Human intelligence most likely follows a bell shaped curve. Unfortunately, in my estimation it's the top 30% or so that are intelligent enough to understand that short term pain with self motivating principles wins out in the long run over socialist ideals that do not work on a macro scale.

Thus, humankind is doomed to follow a never ending cycle of freedom, success, apathy, socialism, dictatorship, disaster, rebellion, etc.

Since this is a shooting forum and not a religious forum, I won't spend any time expounding on the difference between the spirit enlightened viewpoint vs. the sinful nature, et al.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Saturday, December 13, 2008, at 03:54:04 (ZULU)

Bore sighters~

Are they all bullshit?

Almost every rifle I had brught to me this year that had been boresighted was either completely off the paper, or near the edges at 25 yards. Does ayone make a boresighter that's any good at all?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, December 13, 2008, at 06:59:22 (ZULU)

Travis...

I don't think they are all bullshit - but most of them are. The Leupold is the worst I have ever owned.

I have a Bushnell that is about 30 years old that is good - first shot is never more than 6" off of POA... but Bushnell gets their stuff made by other companies so whatever they are selling now, it won't be the one I have.

I have a BSA that was a freebee (along with a set of Ginsu knives), and it's not very good - but better than the Leupold.

And that's a shame, cuz bore sighters are not a new invention - you would think that Leupold could get it right. Ol' man Leupold, and his partner Stevens, both must be turning over in their graves if they can see what the Madison sharks and the bean counters have done to that once fine company.

On the "Big three bailout"?

Winchester was in the same position... in a northern state whose government was terrified of the unions, loaded down with contract agreements that were made during war time when costs and expenses were no object, and loaded down with the most erroneous and punitive tax structure in all 57 (so says Obama) states.

Now struggling to just make payrolls, while the unions (and the fuckin' state govt) sat back and played "chicken", waiting for some private company to throw in a bucket of money. The state and the unions were just sitting there, waiting for Winchester to give in at 11:59 PM.

At 11:59, there was no "bail out", and Winchester went under, so we thought.

The pending investors waited the mandatory ~two years for all union liens and agreements to play out, and started all over down south.

They are now stronger, leaner, cleaner, with better workers and better products at lower (considering inflation) prices.

Let the Big three go down, they will resurface down south, as cleaner, leaner companies with a better work force, and no work banks, no life time bennies, and no outrageous union demands.

It's gotta happen, or we are throwing another 50 billion down the drain.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, December 13, 2008, at 15:01:37 (ZULU)

Lathes - you all keep up the chatter about lathes... The shop is in the paint and trim phase. I already have some items moved in, but this coming year, will start looking for machinery - vertical mill, lathes, etc... I don't mind the chinese stuff - as long as it works and I don't spend half my time fixing it.....

take care all,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Saturday, December 13, 2008, at 20:40:09 (ZULU)

I have a Bushnell boresighter. After boresighting a few hundred scopes manually, I don't need it any more. I'm always going to be on the paper. And the boresighter can't be used on rifles with most muzzle brakes, some kinds of flash hiders, suppressors, or M1/M14 rifles anyway.

Thursday I manually boresighted a PGW Timberwolf and had it zeroed in 4 shots, which, given the cost of the .338 Lapua Magnum ammo I was shooting, was an economically sound procedure. Boresighter? We don' need no steenking boresighter...

If you haven't developed the skills to manually boresight, sight it in a couple of inches low at 25 yards, and at 100 yards, you'll be on the paper.

Lindy
Rockport, Texas , Northern Occupied Territory of Mexico - Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 04:07:44 (ZULU)

Scope Country

Okay, so if a guy is wanting to pick up a scope, say a 30mm tube, 4x15 (or close), mil-dot with turrets and AO, (illuminated optional) and decent glass. Front focal plain would be nice too.

Expect it to track okay and mil-dots within spec and not be out much more than a grand.... what is there?

edited: I now see where Leupold now has a Mark 4 6.5-20x50mm ER/T M1 in front focal plain. Anybody any experience with this one?

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 05:51:28 (ZULU)

Scope (and bore sighter) country.

Most guys can set a riffle up in sand bags and get the bore and the scope close enough by looking down the bore...

... but I use bore sighters differently.

First, I mount most of my scopes in Burris Signature Zee rings (with the little plastic shells)... and I set my scopes so the elevation turret is at the bottom of the adjustment range, so I get the advantage of "All the up" being available. So the bore sighter is valuable for that.

Also, I have found the bore sighter invaluable for swapping scopes - putting a new scope on a rifle that has already been zero'ed - the replacement is always within an inch of the new zero.

On the Faux MK-"whatever" scopes. There are only two MK4 scopes (meaning that they are "Mutha" tough and designed from the ground up as 30mm milspec scopes)... and those are the MK4-M3 and the MK4-M1.

ALL the rest are 1" scopes in 30mm tubes. If you don't need the 90 moa of elevation (and windage [for hurricanes]) get a 1" tube scope - they are much cheaper, easier and cheaper to mount, and just as bright, etc, as the faux MK scopes.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 12:03:54 (ZULU)

I'm no expert, but I've used, and abused, a SuperSniper for over a year now, no problems. Several trips to Oklahoma, dropped on the elevation turret, banged about in the truck and no deviations. Glass is very clear out to the edges, mils are correct, and the adjustments are spot-on. Just my 10 Afghanis worth.....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 13:35:34 (ZULU)

After blowing a hole through a set of Oehler screens, I found a new use for laser bore sight thingies. Set the screens up, stick the thingie in the bore and use yer paw to see where the red dot is located in the screens.

Only draw back with the lasers is they go through a set of batteries el quicko, especially if you throw the damn thing in a gear bag and sumpin hits the switch. I now remove batteries after use.

ARMALITE AR15 7.62x39R.............

Anyone ever shot or messed with one?

Bolt out!

Bolt
NC, - Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 14:30:03 (ZULU)

If you were somewhere beyond resupply, what spare parts would you keep on hand for a Remington 700?

CDC'
Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 14:31:39 (ZULU)

CDC...

>" If you were somewhere beyond resupply, what spare parts would you keep on hand for a Remington 700?"<

Ammo!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 14:44:43 (ZULU)

700 parts.......

CDC, all you really need would be a spare bolt, or a spare extractor. Nothing else to go bad unless you really want to go whole hog and carry a trigger set. I'm on a continual search for busted up actions that somebody wants to sell the bolt out of. I've even considered just buying a spare new bolt for my go-to invasion instruments. Pacific sells bolts and stuff.

http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/products/parts/remington.htm#bolts

Bolt (no pun intended), out!

Bolt
NC, - Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 15:08:03 (ZULU)

I'm still running a Mk4 M3 10X on my 308. Works just fine and I like being able to crank to 1K in less than a full turn. My only regret with this scope is that I didn't install a Gen 2 reticle when I had the chance when Premier was installing them in Leupolds. But in all honesty, I've not really needed it either since I have one of Premiers Gen 2 Leupold Spotting Scopes....as long as the 2 (spotting scope/rifle) aren't separated.

Yeah, Chuck, I've had several Super Snipers and they are consistent. Running one right now on another rifle. They're tough as a tank. I'm still tempted with a variable though. I imagine that the top of the line Nikon is pretty good glass. However, once again its that issue of First Focal Plain but the new Leupold is pretty pricey :(

BTW Chuck, didn't you try an illuminated Leupold a while back? How did it work for you?

Also, I reckon I'll be seeing you at the SASS class @ Badlands in Feb.

Stay safe brother, until I see ya.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 17:07:36 (ZULU)

Mk4: Yes, and I'm still using it. I did learn to take the battery out of the housing when not using it, though. It only takes a bump to turn it on, and it chews through the juice pretty quickly. I plan on hitting Grandfield a couple of days early, if I can, to make sure that I have all the bugs worked out of the AR before the class. I took the collapsible stock off and traded it out for the A2 stock, and I had some timing problems after that. I thought I had them worked out, but the ammo I had loaded for the bolt guns was a little too hot, and the cases were still showing timing gremlins. So, I plan on running BH 168gr factory ammo, and I want to make sure it's not still hiccuping, as I don't want to get there and have to watch.....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 17:49:00 (ZULU)

CDC, I would have a spare firing pin/spring assembly and several extractors (Likely to screw one up doing install in field) The firing pin assembly comes with spring and everything to just swap out in bolt. Wholesale is like 60.00 for that part. A spare trigger would cover the rest of things that rarely but do break

MK4 M3 is hard to beat for field fixed scope. Lasts a life time

Super Snipers are still great value

Nikon in great value in the varible market and I love the Tactical Models.

You bums have great holidays and cross fingers I get by a medical with my knees.

Mike/Undude

www.Tacticalintervention.com

Mike Miller
Ca, - Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 18:18:26 (ZULU)

"If you were somewhere beyond resupply, what spare parts would you keep on hand for a Remington 700?"

A Savage 10FP! ...with a SS10x42M in Badgers!

Sorry, CDC, couldn't resist.

SSG Mac
Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 22:34:09 (ZULU)

'Lito,

A borescope is used for examining the inside of a bore. ....or watching my mother in law root for truffles.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 22:39:10 (ZULU)

Chuck,

I bet the Black Hills stuff is pretty good. Never tried any myself. I imagine anybody wanting to buy some now with the "Obama Effect" going on is going to find it either hard to find or VERY expensive.

I've got to work up a load for a DPMS. May try some 155 Scenars and 168 gr. AMAX's.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, December 14, 2008, at 23:32:38 (ZULU)

Travis...

Mang, I don't get no slack around here no mo'... !! :)))

I've been sorting papers for two weeks, and I have some 1,500 to 1,800 pages that have to be copied over the next two days.

They just plain Looooove me at Staples :(((

I fix! Tell your mother in law that it's safe to hunt for truffles again :)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 01:43:57 (ZULU)

If it weren't illegal to hunt feral hogs here in Kansas, her big ass would be toast!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 02:18:56 (ZULU)

Undude/Mike Miller: Thanks for the answer. You should post more. The board could benefit from your knowledge. <edited to add> You posted your url incorrectly so it didn't work for me. I got it with http://www.tacticalintervention.com/

Anyone who came in late: Undude makes slings that are the only way to go for heavy rifles. Click my name.

Bolt: Thanks. It is appreciated.

CDC'
Monday, December 15, 2008, at 02:23:48 (ZULU)

MK4:

I'm running Scenar 155's and a case full of Varget for my long range .308 Win loading (TR/F). The Scenar 155's have similar BC to Sierra 175's, but you can drive the 155's faster.

It's a nice loading.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 02:51:57 (ZULU)

If a body was fixing to get a Savage 10FPC, which stock would you guys recommend: McMillan or HS Precision?

Chris McHam
Northwest, Louisiana, USA - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 02:58:31 (ZULU)

Rod,

Are you running the 155's through an AR? How much Varget? I'm loading 44.0 gr Varget/175 SMK/BR2/Lapua brass in my bolt rifle. I'd like to see the 155 skinnies run with Varget through the DPMS.

Does anybody know where you can buy unfired 308 Winchester brass?

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 03:15:27 (ZULU)

For winnie brass, have you tried Black Hills?

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 03:30:35 (ZULU)

Chris,

HS Precision is now paying Lon Horiuchi, the shameless bastard that shot Randy Weaver's wife while holding her baby to pimp their products. Get what you want, but I vote with my wallet.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 03:39:02 (ZULU)

Thanks, I had forgotten that bit of info.

That murderer will not be getting any of my money.

Chris McHam
northwest, louisiana, USA - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 03:45:37 (ZULU)

Mk4:

Sorry, .308 Win bolt gun for the 155g Sierras and Varget. Velocity is at a factory duplication loading level comparable to the Lapua offering, so I suspect it would be compatible with the .308 version of the AR15. (Say around 2850 ft/sec).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 05:07:38 (ZULU)

MK4:

My .308 Win loading is 155g Scenar w/moly, 45.5g Varget in Lapua brass. They're seated long which is possible with the Savage 110. In a DPMS they'll likely have to be seated deeper to fit the mil-spec box magazine, so you'll probably have to drop down the powder charge some. The dimensions of the 155g Scenar is likely similar to the 175 SMK,so trying say 44g of Varget for a magazine length loading would probably be about right.

(There is a lot of empty space inside the 155g Scenar).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 05:19:09 (ZULU)

MK4

Win. brass recobtargetshop.com I was just at there store saturday.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 11:30:24 (ZULU)

Gary,

That appears to be a site that lists other similar and independent sites. Which site listed the Winchester brass?

Rod,

I've been talking to some other DPMS gas gunners that are loading the 155's and they claim that Varget is too slow and a bit too hard on the gas system. Something in the 4895 burn rate might be a good place to start.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 13:47:35 (ZULU)

CDC, no idea why I have not posted more lately but will do so in future.

On 155 Scenars. I run them in a bunch of rifles now. My F TR Rifle lives on them and my Gas Guns love them

In my Gas Gun I run 44.0 grains of H4895 instead of Varget. I get more velocity

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
ca, - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 14:48:09 (ZULU)

Thanks, Mike.

That looks like a good place to start.

Now, if you don't mind me asking, what twist, barrel length and velocity are you getting?

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 15:05:25 (ZULU)

Bolt, "After blowing a hole through a set of Oehler screens, I found a new use for laser bore sight thingies. Set the screens up, stick the thingie in the bore and use yer paw to see where the red dot is located in the screens."

That's a DARNED great idea! Thanks! I'm going to use that.... you'll get full credit, of course.

CDC' - It would seem a complete bolt assembly would be easier to carry than a spare firing pin, etc., and the tools required to replace said components.

Travis - got my first laugh of the day! Thanks!.. truffles... LOL!

Charles Hunt - I sent Rich some premium pills I owed him, they're waiting for him at BL. If you're nice to him, he may let you try a few, for you to shake out your gear.

Duman
Monday, December 15, 2008, at 18:04:28 (ZULU)

Just remember to remove the bore sighter before firing !

Yikes !

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26038&stc=1&d=1186438030

http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/archive/archive_201-250/photo228.htm

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, Usa - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 23:52:59 (ZULU)

Your opinions, please

If you could get a Savage 10FPC with McMillan stock (24" barrel) or a Remington 700 Police with 5R barrel (26") for about the same price, which way would you go?

Thanks in advance.

Chris

Chris McHam
Northwest Louisiana, USA - Monday, December 15, 2008, at 23:59:03 (ZULU)

HS Precision comments on Lon Horiuchi:

http://www.hsprecision.com/thenews/news.htm

The original endorsement:

http://blogostuff.blogspot.com/2008/11/hs-precision-gets-endorsement-by-lon.html

Click on the page, and zoom in a couple of times.

"....this is akin to having a fertilizer company get an endorsement by Timothy McVeigh. Poor taste, putting it mildly."

"What's next, Osama Bin Laden as a United Airlines spokesman?"

"That company needs to be Zumboed."

....... lot's of anger out there....

Duman
Tuesday, December 16, 2008, at 01:32:34 (ZULU)

Steve,

I've been cringing all season, while RSOing, that some stupid bastard was gonna do that. So far, NO injuries. I'm thrilled. .....and a little digusted with the average "hunter".

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 16, 2008, at 03:46:02 (ZULU)

Chris McHam: Click my name.

CDC'
Tuesday, December 16, 2008, at 04:26:58 (ZULU)

McHam - While I'm a big Savage fan, in your case, I would go with the 5R Remington. Shot for shot, the Savage will shoot with the Remmy, but the M700 series has a little more support in the industry for "tactical" use, and the 5R model is worth more, especially in the long run.

Bravo - comms up yet?

Geoff M
WI, USA - Tuesday, December 16, 2008, at 06:01:54 (ZULU)

Chris McHam:

What Geoff said.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Tuesday, December 16, 2008, at 06:20:49 (ZULU)

MK4

I forgot an S it's recobstargetshop.com

Gary Kaney
NW, ILL, - Tuesday, December 16, 2008, at 10:05:34 (ZULU)

Thanks, Gary.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Tuesday, December 16, 2008, at 13:59:32 (ZULU)

Mk4....I've been using Varget exclusively, maybe that's the problem with the AR10.

Duman....Rich'll probably sell them to me :p

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, December 16, 2008, at 14:17:25 (ZULU)

Geoff, yeah, my phone is working now..... I even figured out why it wouldn't ring through. Alltel couldn't figure it out, but I did after reading a whole bunch. Seems that if you set the voice mail thing up with a 1 in front of the 10 digit number, it puts all calls straight to voice mail. Just the 10 digits without the 1 makes it work properly. Who woulda guessed? Alltel wouldn't have - that's who!

The numbers I have though are backed-up from June of 07 :-( Lost all the addresses and such in the transfer too.

When I call your 037 number, it keeps putting on a recording, telling me that it's being checked for problems. Do I have the wrong number?

Even tried the 364 number, but it sure didn't sound like you.

Drop me an e-mail with your number - or I can keep trying the same ones ;-)

Unfortunately, my cell phone doesn't work out at the plant. Just too far out in the middle of nowhere - even further out in the middle of nowhere than my shooting range LOL! If you've got the X1038 number, hit me there.... I should be here all day, unfortunately.

Bravo
Tuesday, December 16, 2008, at 17:06:52 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Get a Wilson Cellular trucker. It's an external antenna that sits on top of your truck, like a CB antenna, and plugs into the hole that little rubber plug on the back of your phone is currently filling. (Yes, there is one there; just look!)

It'll give you a hell of a lot more range, and, if you hook it up to an amp, you'll get service from damn near anywhere.

The whole setup, less the amp, should run you around $100, including the magnet for the antenna, the adapter for your phone, etc..I haven't hooked mine up to an amp, but an old guy I know had one on his, and said he was never without service,

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 16, 2008, at 19:07:42 (ZULU)

Machinery Country-Ok, if you're looking for machine tools, you first need to read up on how to operate them. Brownells has a reprint of a 1949(?) manual for South Bend lathes that teaches basic machining practices for about $15 (the factory wants $75 for nearly the same document). If looking at various brands,ask for operating manuals for the ones you're considering and read carefully. I have a manual for an oriental vertical mill that was translated by someone with a ? to English dictionary and no knowledge of the English language. It's hysterical! I didn't buy that mill.

One of the things you need to do first is buy a magnetic base and a dial indicator. Then learn to use them! Make sure that whatever you're considering purchasing actually moves the various parts according to the dials and preferrably in straight lines. Several of the oriental machinery lines have dials in English or metric, but they didn't change the graduations-only the labels. So, you crank in say 0.015" feed and what you get is 0.015mm.

Bed length on lathes-some measure from the ends of the bed(South Bend, amoung others), some measure from the headstock (where the chuck is). Be sure what you're getting, try and get as much tooling thrown in as possible. I think I paid $600 for my lathe & what tooling the guy had. Last time I bothered to account for it, I had ten times that in tooling.

There's been a whole lot of consolidation in the machine tools industry. Generally, old & heavy is better. Some manufacturers will recondition their older products for astoundingly small fees (compared to brand new).

WR Moore
Wednesday, December 17, 2008, at 02:21:00 (ZULU)

Chuck,

I'm sending a PM to you via Badlands Forum.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Wednesday, December 17, 2008, at 02:22:02 (ZULU)

Guys I've done some searching on the web for Garand come ups and found two lists, the first doesn't sound right but the second sounds close.

#1: 100-0,200-2,300-3,400-5,500-7,600-11 #2: 100-0,200-3,300-6,400-10,500-14,600-19,700-24,800-30,900-38,1000-46

comments/opinions

On vertical mills, the best mill I ever used was an EX-CELL-O made in Canada. Twice as stable as a Bridgeport 1/2 the price...if you can find one. Look at the difference in the way the headstock is mounted. Lathe size 12"X36" with a 2" through hole. With the gap removed you can spin 15" auto rims ; )

4eyes
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Wednesday, December 17, 2008, at 03:47:04 (ZULU)

Cut and paste, cut and paste!!!

http://worriersanonymous.org/Share/V2008/Thedesk.htm

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Wednesday, December 17, 2008, at 14:09:51 (ZULU)

WR Moore.

Try 'lindsay publications' for the HTRAL manual... only eight bucks...

The chineese lathes aren't a bad deal as they have 95% of the tooling you will need to start up with.. I agree that old American iron is the best but finding something in good condition that normal folks can afford is somewhat problematic.. If it's doesn't come well tooled be prepared to hunt stuff down... ( if it's a southbend contact me )

Have a good STRONG floor in you shop... go with a rotary phase converter... 3 phase power is the way to go and machines can be had for cheap.. if you need more info contact me and I will point the way to knowledge on such stuff.. ( I'm no expert but I just went down this path ) As much as it pains me to say this grizzly tools has a fairly nice lathe set up for gunsmithing... I do have a grizzly mill and it's better than I thought it would be... still has limitations but not bad as an entry machine.. Just some random thoughts for you wannabe machine heads.. <grin>

Went to the big gun show in harrisburg pa this weekend... Was shocked by how little ammo and reloading stuff was there... Folks seem to be stocking up... for what I don't know.

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Wednesday, December 17, 2008, at 15:03:24 (ZULU)

Hello folks,

Lotsa uproar over HS, some of the comments on the blog a little bit uncalled for, just being nasty to be nasty and all...There is a good chance whomever was in charge of putting the catalog together did not know or understand the public's antipathy towards Lon, but whatever he did or was Lon was involved with the program to set the FBI contracts up, so take that with a grain of salt. I see they have rescinded the catalog and are printing a new back cover.

Damn it's cold...maybe I should turn the a/c down..hah..later

JR
Wednesday, December 17, 2008, at 22:12:29 (ZULU)

Cabella's is selling Lapua .308 brass for $51/100. They have a $20 off purchases of $100 that brings the price to $41/100 if you buy two boxes.

CDC'
Thursday, December 18, 2008, at 01:30:36 (ZULU)

CDC: Buy a half order of the fine lapua brass, and then buy gold with the left over cash:))

Seriously: Buy gold. Now. Or, buy whatever basic-needs items you can, in quantity. Barter will also have value soon. A year from now you can tell me what an idiot I am...or not.

The dollar is taking on water internationally; an odd thing considering that investors drove short term treasuries into the ground all week long (yields negative? wow). The conditions are set already for inflationary hell, but the dollar-making presses are still at maximum production! And Obama thinks even more printing is necessary...I don't care where you fall in on the doom-scale, you gotta know this is a very bad thing.

Joe M
Thursday, December 18, 2008, at 16:55:07 (ZULU)

Just sent Ken an article for the review section. I hope you guys all enjoy it. Could not find Marius's email address.

CDC I use Lapua brass in my F TR Rifle. Its the best I can find.

Joe you ever get to sending the GS stuff out? I think a neighbot must have snagged it LOL

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Friday, December 19, 2008, at 00:08:04 (ZULU)

Mike: The last I saw of your cookies was in the back of the wife's SUV--along with your new addy. She has probably diverted them. Her butt was getting big towards the end, ya know? LOL. Hey; lemme know what I owe ya...I'd say product is a no-go at this point:))

Joe M
Friday, December 19, 2008, at 00:53:32 (ZULU)

Morning guys, just checking in to see what everyone has been up to.

On the M1-As Varget is not a good powder to use. I was told it develops to much pressure and is said to be hard on the gas system. You can't go wrong with 4895 or W748. I used to have some data on the loads to use for match shooting. If anyone is intrested I will see if I still have it.

Any of you guys shooting the 260 and wanting good brass but having trouble finding Lapua or think its to expensive??? I bought 100rds of Winchester 7mm-08 brass and formed it down to the 260 and tried it out against my Lapua loads. It shot just as well if not better groups at 100yds than my Lapua loads did.

As a test I shot a 3 shot group and a 5 shot group with the Lapua brass and the 123s. The 3 shot group was in the high .2s and the 5 shot was in the low .5s I then shot two 3 shot groups with the Winchester brass an they were both in the real low .3s I then shot two 5 shot groups with the Winchester brass and one group was a .420 an the other was a .412 So I was very pleased with the results at 100yds.

I have not had a chace to get out and try the loads at 400 and 600yds yet but if anyone is intrested I will post the results when I do. I like to do all my load testing at 400 and 600yds to make sure it will shoot well at long range. It looks like the Winchester brass could be a cheaper alternative to the Lapua brass. Its also very easy to form from the 7mm-08 brass. Take care an play nice!!!

Pat
Friday, December 19, 2008, at 15:27:12 (ZULU)

Outrage venting Country:

I know it`s a mostly knee-jerk response and the actual numbers don`t mean much on the grand scale of things, so it`s a principle thingie for me (big on that, so I am) buuuuuuuut.....those fuckin` bastards!!!!

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/with-economy-in-shambles-congress-gets-a-raise-2008-12-17.html

Steve Racer
Erf, - Friday, December 19, 2008, at 16:39:32 (ZULU)

Joe, you owe me nothing. The money was for the Girl Scouts. Count me again next year.

On 260 I run Remington 260 brass and find it to work with no problems.

On M14s I would not use Varget as i believe its too slow. I would use H4895

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Friday, December 19, 2008, at 17:13:35 (ZULU)

Mike,

I always had "Flyers" with Remington brass. I have not tried any of the new Remingon brass but the first batch I bought I was not happy with. I neckturned it all and sorted it by weight, did all the match prep work to it and still had the unexplained flyers.

Once I went to Lapua this problem went away. I never tried anything else after that. Its just been recently that I have looked at replacing some of it and find it hard to find an way more expensive than I remembered. Glad to see you still kicking hope all is well with you!!

Pat
Friday, December 19, 2008, at 19:59:57 (ZULU)

This article is the best read of the week...click; subject: Reagan, Volcker and the inflationary hell of the 70s and early 80s. Can you imagine any politician today shit-canning the economy so that one day Bill Clinton can get credit for that process? Finally, some back up on this argument that I have been re-hashing with the in-law liberals:|)

Rem brass may suck, but with a .260---it is often all you will find.

Joe M
Saturday, December 20, 2008, at 00:36:43 (ZULU)

Of interest:

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/New_Gun_Laws_Coming_to_LA_Los_Angeles.html

Leslie
Saturday, December 20, 2008, at 00:53:56 (ZULU)

Pat

I've been using Win 7m/08 in my 260 almost since day one. I'm holding 3/4 moa at 500yds. that's the max range i can shoot around here. The Hornady 129SST and the 140 A Max track identicle.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Saturday, December 20, 2008, at 12:01:06 (ZULU)

Sarge,

I've been having problems kneeling on my right knee. Feel like I'm kneeling on razor blades and ground glass. I remembered reading your review on knee pads from U.S. Tactical Supply so I ordered a pair. They are indeed great. I can even kneel on concrete with no pain at all.

Thanks & Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The cloudy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, December 20, 2008, at 20:15:24 (ZULU)

Greetings,

In conversations with the original Pat (HA!), we spoke how people formed their views on long distance shooting on their experiences. As Pat shoots a great deal and is a knowledgable riflemen, I asked him how many barrel he has burned out on his precision rifles. I won't reveal the number, if Pat cares to he can, but it was (I thought) a significant number. I had never asked anybody before how many barrels they had shot out. Another way to quantify shooting experience? I thought it was interesting. FWIW.

Pat II
Saturday, December 20, 2008, at 20:36:09 (ZULU)

In terms of barrels worn, I'm a 260 newb with only one completely shot and two in mid-life. That said, I've been able to cull bad rem brass in the first firing and get pretty consistant results. Good enough that the two batches of Lapua I own didn't produce any better outcomes. I may just be alousy shot and in what I call an average group, Pat can see the flyer (that wouldn't surprise me one bit, Pat strikes me as the type that shoots way more than he talks <g>)....

BTW - I still really like the Norma 130 gr pills...I wish Lapua would come out with a scenar in that weight, but for now, the Norma's low price and solid performance has me hooked.

medicjim
Sunday, December 21, 2008, at 13:02:15 (ZULU)

On Rem 260 brass I must have gotten lucky as many guys report fliers but I purchased 1000 pcs a couple of years ago and that batch has worked great. I am getting ready for some new brass and not sure route to go. Maybe I will fire form 243 Lapua? Any thoughts? I have lots of 308 Lapua but hate the idea of thinning the neck area. I am basically a push through die, cut to length, load and shoot guy. Makes my F TR Team Mates cringe

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
Ca, - Sunday, December 21, 2008, at 18:15:18 (ZULU)

Mike writes:

"I am basically a push through die, cut to length, load and shoot guy. Makes my F TR Team Mates cringe".

Not necessarily a bad thing. I've read other competitive shooters point out that if you're making decent handloads, time spent shooting them on a range will yield better on-demand marksmenship in real-world conditions than time spent at the reloading bench persuing that last N% improvement in accuracy.

(Nothing wrong with chasing that N%, but most of us have finite amounts of time and/or money...).

(of course, Mike has probably figured that out without my help :-)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, December 21, 2008, at 22:58:39 (ZULU)

Thought you other hillbillies, and folks that refer to them as beanflippers might enjoy this video. Click my name.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, December 22, 2008, at 01:41:06 (ZULU)

Click my name for a how-to pn making a slingshot. It's in German, but I think you get wat she's trying to show you, wink, wink!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, December 22, 2008, at 01:48:00 (ZULU)

Travis: re: cellular antenna boosters, is this what you had in mind?

http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/ViewProductB.php?ID=5

Duman
Monday, December 22, 2008, at 01:55:16 (ZULU)

Nope, that's the little girlie version, like you'd put on a prius or some other fairy-mobile! No sense in going with sample size when there's an economy version!

You want THIS ONE: http://www.wilsonelectronics.com////ViewProductB.php?ID=1

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, December 22, 2008, at 02:08:52 (ZULU)

Jim,

I wouldn't consider you an amature shooter by any means!! After all you did give my my pet load for the 260.

Mike,

My only experience with the Remington 260 brass was with the initial batch that they came out with. I started shooting the 260 before they even made brass for it. I bought 500rds when it was first introduced and did all the match prep work on it but like I said I just had to many unexplained flyers. Then to have that problem clear up after going to the Lapua brass makes me think it was probably a brass issue.

In Remingtons defence I do use it for my 6.5x55 an it shoots just as well as the Lapua brass did. I know some of the factory loaded stuff that Black Hills Ammo put out shot really well and they used Remington brass so maybe they have solved any earlier problems they may have had.

Pat
Monday, December 22, 2008, at 13:17:58 (ZULU)

Pat:

Just out of curiosity, did you ever manage to narrow down what variable about the early Rem .260 brass would cause the fliers?

Any weighing or gaging tried?

(I'm guessing that once you found the Lapua solved it you didn't look back...).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, December 22, 2008, at 16:23:41 (ZULU)

Rod,

As I reacall I did. I started marking cases with a feltmarker and then would shoot it again the next time and I found several to always be out of the group.

I rechecked the cases again for weight and everything I could do and they were always the same as the other cases. I then started keeping track of my other calibers an watching for shots that I felt should have been in the group but were out for an unexplained reasons other than me.

What I found is that I would occasionally get cases that were always bad or were out of the group.

I have noticed that when I "Clean" the necks by neck turning that there are times that I will cut a lot off of one side of the neck an never touch the other side. This tells me the case is thicker on one side than the other. This may or may not be causing me a problem but the next time I get fresh brass and I find this I will mark the case and follow how well it shoots.

The other thing I thought it could be is that maybe the internal case cap. is different even though they weigh the same. unfortunatly when I thought of this I had tossed the bad cases. Over my years of shooting I have found brass to be my biggest varriable as far as accuracy goes when I am reloading. I feel that good brass is the foundation to good "Consistant" accuracy.

I am not sure if you ever heard of or seen the old Remington BR 308 brass. (It had the small primer pocket). Well years back I bought some an tried it out. It was the most consistant brass I had ever worked with the problem was it was thin and had a larger case cap. than the std. 308 brass. You could never get the velocity out of it that you needed with the 308 until Varget came along. With a case full of varget it would get up to around 2700.

To make a long story short, when shooting this brass, my gun went from a .6 to a consistant .5 an under most of the time. I at first thought well maybe it just likes the loads vel or "Sweetspot" so I tried matching the velocities with my other brass and it made no difference I could never get my other brass to shoot as well as the Rem BR brass, not even close. We put 10 shots with my sons 308VS in under a half inch using this brass.

Pat
Monday, December 22, 2008, at 17:21:37 (ZULU)

Winchester brass has been a little scarce so I dug around and found fifteen hundred or so LC-73 7.62 cases that I had used for utility ammo in my beater Ruger. Do any of you have any thoughts concerning using that brass as a component in good ammo?

CDC'
Monday, December 22, 2008, at 21:24:23 (ZULU)

CDC,

I would probably shy away from it. I was told a long time ago to stay away from the Vietnam area brass as the quality was not the best.

I have used the LC Match brass with good sucess if thats what your talking about. In fact I have about 500rds loaded and tucked away.

Pat
Monday, December 22, 2008, at 21:55:48 (ZULU)

CDC Sir,

Heck I'd try the brass you got and see how it does... Brass does age though and you can get flyer's and such. I took an old batch of brass into work one time and tested it on a meter for measuring hardness of brass... there was alot of variation... I then tested some new federal production stuff and it was really consistent.. YMMV...

Stay safe and have a merry Christmas

Calvin

PS loved the vid from the spaghetti western..!

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Monday, December 22, 2008, at 22:47:21 (ZULU)

Pat:

Sounds like you exercised due diligence to the first level. Non-concentric necks could certainly explain your observed fliers.

I read about a fixture that permit measuring bullet runout in loaded cartridges, it would probably measure such effects easily if that was the issue.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=REMTCG&item=09-175&type=store

**Concentricity guages are best described as tools used to measure how concentric the outside of your cases or loaded rounds are with respect to the center axis of the case. You will sometimes hear handloaders referring concentricity measurements as the runout of their cartridges. These guages are used primarily to determine reloading die performance. Concentricity can be affected by many things; the quality of the sizing dies, bent decapping rods, the bullet seater, the bullet seater stem, the quality of your cases, and the quality of your case preparation tasks like neck turning, chamfering, deburring, etc.

I've also read that the benchrest guys will shoot candidate brass and cull the problem children units. Since they use a small number of good cases, neck size them and load them at the range, it's not a bad strategy. They even get into case orientation indexing.

I've heard of the legendary Remington BR 308 brass. There was also the .308 Win brass produced by Winchester for the Palma matches that is supposed to be very wonderful too.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, December 23, 2008, at 01:44:48 (ZULU)

Rod,

You are correct, if you don't neck turn the brass the thicker side will push the bullet to the thin side and give you bullet run out when you load it. neck turning the brass does eliminate this problem but I think you still have a screwed up case. I also think that is why some guys index the cases like you were talking about.

I read a good article on it years ago where a guy did testing with a "Bad" case and claimed you could put the bullet where you wanted it in the group by where you put the orientation mark on the case. He also said that cases were the most overlooked piece of the accuracy pie. He went as far as to break it all down on what case prep really does make a difference at what ranges an what is and isn't needed for the differnt shooting disiplens.

The easy part to remember is that when shooting to 1000yds EVERYTHING helps!!!(HA)

Pat
Tuesday, December 23, 2008, at 13:26:17 (ZULU)

Check out this lucky bastard...

UKD over 1000 yards, first round hit, sitting supported, light wind <g>. Using 260 rem, 130 gr norma

http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r135/Mark8541/May%202008%20Allegheny%20Mtn%20shoot/?action=view&current=MOV01945.flv

medicjim
Tuesday, December 23, 2008, at 14:45:33 (ZULU)

Well on case prep the one thing I do to every case is take off slag left when the punch the primer hole. ON Rem, win and fed cases this takes off a huge piece most times. On Lapua cases I have yet to remove any excess in over 3000 cases. Between this and case length I have found nothing in case problems to screw up a 1000 yard group faster than missing these steps.

My powder drop is something I started two years ago. I use Chargemaster. I set .10 grain low and drop into pan. Take pan off until weight is reset. Then put pan back on and trickle up to the actual charge I want. This gets me more consistent charges than the .10 grain high or low the meassure will drop on its own.

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Tuesday, December 23, 2008, at 15:25:08 (ZULU)

on flash hole deburring:

My sources claim that Norma and Lapua are drilled, whereas the American cases are punched - thus the burr.

I no longer bother deburring Lapua, haven't found any burrs in the ones I tried. I don't remember on the Norma brass I have.

I do remember that the weight variance on the Normal in .308Win was

twice that of the Lapua. The Lapua stuff was very tight weight tolerance for the most part.

IMHO, flash hole deburring is probably useful for loadings beyond (say) 300 yds, where even a few fps variance really starts to make a difference.

Pat's right, at 1000 it *all* makes a difference...

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, December 23, 2008, at 16:41:57 (ZULU)

Mike, what do you use to punch your primer hole with?

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Tuesday, December 23, 2008, at 18:39:40 (ZULU)

Darren,

They make a tool that fits down from the neck of the case that goes into the primer hole and has a tapered cutter on it an cleans the burr off of the inside of the case.

Pat
Tuesday, December 23, 2008, at 20:00:01 (ZULU)

flash hole deburring tool

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=RECPDT&item=DB-1000&type=store

medicjim
Tuesday, December 23, 2008, at 20:33:52 (ZULU)

I am looking at purchasing this: Redding Flash Hole Deburring Tool with 22 Caliber Pilot

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=415786

Click my name to the link.

Ok, on a different note, I am now on the hunt for a scope. I am looking at the Mark 4 3.5-10x40mm LR/T M3 Front Focal. Can anyone suggest a good site to purchase it from, thanks! Also looking for Badger Rings and 20 MOA mount.

And finally, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all....be safe and shoot straight.

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Tuesday, December 23, 2008, at 20:45:17 (ZULU)

For scopes, try:

http://www.specialtysportsandsupply.com/

They are in Colorado Springs, CO. Probably the largest gun shop in the country and they sell a number of scopes. Their prices are good. While everyone else has jacked prices lately, they have not.

Hank
Tuesday, December 23, 2008, at 21:41:33 (ZULU)

Darren...

There is one that has a stop on the cutter face. Go to Sinclair International and look at the ones they sell - the problem with the Redding is that it does not have a cutter stop, and - first, you have to buy stops for every bore size... and second, you can never get any consistency

Look at this one...

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=DB-1255&type=store

It stops on the web, so ALL of the bevels are the same, no matter whether the cases have been trimmed or not, and whether the webs are the same height or not...

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, December 24, 2008, at 03:08:37 (ZULU)

>>>Ok, on a different note, I am now on the hunt for a scope. I am looking at the Mark 4 3.5-10x40mm LR/T M3 Front Focal. Can anyone suggest a good site to purchase it from, thanks!<<<

Darren,

I just bought this exact same scope from www.bigrivertactical.com . I got a really good price on it and the service was great. Donnie, the owner, is active LE and great to deal with.

Moe

Moe Mensale
Boca Raton, FL, - Wednesday, December 24, 2008, at 03:17:27 (ZULU)

Who would have thought. Hollywood is not all bad!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,471244,00.html

JLU

Joe Udelhofen
Oconomowoc, WI, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2008, at 12:13:23 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas to all.

On a less charitable note, Al Queda supposedly has strike teams inbound for something "bigger than 9/11."

WR Moore
Wednesday, December 24, 2008, at 14:45:25 (ZULU)

I hope they're ready for what we're gonna do to them, Muslim president, or not.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, December 24, 2008, at 14:52:50 (ZULU)

On Flash Hole Deburring. I just use a RCBS tool for it but since going to Lapua Brass no need to do so. They are machined not punched out like Fed/Win and Rem

On another note Ken is working on a review of Premieres new scope I sent in. Hope you bums enjoy it.

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Wednesday, December 24, 2008, at 15:28:44 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!

Jerry
Annapolis, MD, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2008, at 16:39:09 (ZULU)

Travis- the prez elect is offically an apostate. The faithfull have not only a right, but a duty, to kill him.

WR Moore
Wednesday, December 24, 2008, at 17:15:05 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas guys. Be careful and WY6.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2008, at 19:05:23 (ZULU)

Bill Moore: links?

Use my email if you need to: geoffmccormick -at- charter +DOT+ net. My roster addy is out of service.

All - Merry Christmas, and many blessings.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2008, at 19:08:34 (ZULU)

Maedicjim...Do I recognize that pole?????????????? that was a good day of shooting on the mountain.

There will be a Spring shoot May 9/10....

outa here

markwell

markwell
The Alleghenies, WV, - Wednesday, December 24, 2008, at 20:15:43 (ZULU)

Markwell,

That sure sounds like your voice in the video

medicjim
Wednesday, December 24, 2008, at 20:52:56 (ZULU)

Geoff -I'll post one open source for the comments, check http://www.debka.com/section.php?cid=6 and check titles. Can't hang for open source.

Reading some of the secret squirrel stuff can be entertaining if you also check open sources:)))

WR Moore
Wednesday, December 24, 2008, at 21:17:35 (ZULU)

WR Moore,

I wouldn't call him a prostate, but it's awfully close!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, December 25, 2008, at 00:40:57 (ZULU)

Travis,

Would that be dickhead or asshole?

Merry Christmas to each and everyone of you, and may all of you have a Happy New Year.

And for anyone on here that is politically correct, cough, cough, Happy Holidays.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Thursday, December 25, 2008, at 06:34:46 (ZULU)

Has anyone heard from Mr. Mussack (Andy's dad)?

IIRC, he had acquired a S&B scope, and it looks like the Premier Reticle scope is comparable. I would be curious on his take of the new scope.

Duman
Thursday, December 25, 2008, at 13:58:39 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas ya'll, from warm and sunny Afghanistan! Life is grand, no loud, exothermic reactions today and the homebound convoys were merely TARFU'd instead of FUBAR. The Afghans pulled off a credible Christmas dinner, even baked us a right decent ham. Santa dropped off a nice Padron 50-ring cigar, so smiles and smoke rings abound. Just thought I'd take a moment to wish you all a warm Season's Greetings. Hope you all have a nice one, with lots of family and friends to share it with. Khoda hafez.....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Thursday, December 25, 2008, at 15:22:12 (ZULU)

To all here residing in da' roach motel,

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

later

JR
Thursday, December 25, 2008, at 17:55:52 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Years - I had a great day with great friends - made a dent in the Rum supply too :)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, December 26, 2008, at 01:27:00 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas Hogs.

Santa brought me Sam Adams and reloading supplies! To be enjoyed seperatly of course.

4eyes
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Friday, December 26, 2008, at 07:46:25 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas And a Happy New Year to you guys.

Wifey-clause got me a K98 Mauser all matching numbers. It needs a little TLC, but i've got all winter. Good one to try in my parkerizing tank i just built.

Gary Kaney
N, ILL, - Friday, December 26, 2008, at 12:35:13 (ZULU)

Anyone have information/familiarity with the Patriot Ordnance Factory P-308 rifles? I've not read many reviews on their products and am hoping someone out here may have some knowledge that they'd be willing to share.

Thanks in advance for any information.

Wook Beltran
Friday, December 26, 2008, at 15:11:11 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas And a Happy New Year to all of you

is any of you familar whit the galil 308 rifle

end what is your opinion on it as sniper or sharpshooter rifel

thank you

avi

avi
dalia, is, is - Friday, December 26, 2008, at 16:13:34 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas Hogs!!! Hope you all get some down time to 'reset' and get ready for the next year.

Thanks to those out far away on the line and those that are on patrol here @ home.

Wife and I are painting and trimming out the shop today :) As you all might imagine -- FFL transfer traffic is wayyy up.

Take care, God Bless,

Ken/Kim Hunter

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Friday, December 26, 2008, at 18:30:24 (ZULU)

Darren- I know that Donnie at Big River Tactical is a good guy to deal with. There is also another source closer to home for us. Mike Cecil at CS Gunworks in Elk Grove has been great to work with. He sponsors and competes in our tac matches at Folsom Shooting Club near Sacramento. You might want to give him a call and see what he can do for you.

http://www.csgunworks.com/

Brass question- I thought I was being smart by picking up about a thousand pieces of .223 brass at a local range recently. It was left out by LE teams that train there and it's mostly Win and Fed. Much of it is tarnished and has been laying in the grass under the sun and rain. I didn't pick up any of really dark ones but I'm wondering if I should even use what I got. It would just be for plinking with my new M4 build. Thoughts?

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area , CA, - Friday, December 26, 2008, at 20:47:57 (ZULU)

MarcS: Clean it, polish it, use it. Pick out the brighter Winchester brass and make primo ammo for the best .223 you own.

CDC'
Friday, December 26, 2008, at 22:15:05 (ZULU)

re: range brass

Tarnish is not an issue. I cull the ones that have actual corrosion that could weaken the metal. The flag in that case is mechanically rough surface when you run a finger over the affected portion(s) of the case.

Fed brass is reputed to be soft, so the primer pockets don't stay tight thru as many firings as better brass. Winchester (as CDC mentioned) is well-respected among the more commonly available North American mfgr cartridge brass.

A good polish can make a big difference in the appearance in such pickups. I like corncob and Mother's Mag Cleaner, there are others. Cleaning makes it easier to inspect for deep dents, splits and cracks. Also reduces wear on your dies, and reduces scratching of the cases when they are being resized. I personally like the appearance of shiny brass, it makes me feel more confident in my handloaded ammunition.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 27, 2008, at 02:42:26 (ZULU)

Avi...

Good to see you here again.

I have a Galil 308 ARM, and I like it a lot.

It is NOT a long range sniper rifle (700+ meters), but for 400 to 500 it will do well when scoped, and with the folding stock, it is convenient to schelep around in a small pack.

MarcS...

Go back and get the dark stuff too.. it is all good. Toss in the vibrator polisher when you go to bed, and have beautiful brass when you wake up in the morning.

Trade the Fed, and shoot the Winchester.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, December 27, 2008, at 10:30:35 (ZULU)

On Range Brass... concur with all, with one caveat. Inspect the innards for weed seeds and insects/spiders. These seem to have an affinity for small dark holes which are provided by empty brass lying about. These things don't necessarily come out when tumbling/vibrating/polishing.

The load would probably go "boom" or "poof" or something, but I can't imagine a weed seed or spider nest would do much for the accuracy.

SteveinButte
Butte, MT, USA - Saturday, December 27, 2008, at 14:28:43 (ZULU)

Thanks guys that's good to know and I'll pick up more next time I'm there. I'll inspect them carefully inside and out too.

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Saturday, December 27, 2008, at 17:56:02 (ZULU)

Dog hair in a load just makes it smell a little funny, and slightly smokier than usual.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, December 28, 2008, at 02:21:06 (ZULU)

Insomnia is a bitch. I'm glad I don't have to go to work tomorrow.

The Isrealis killed approx. 270 with over 600 wounded in "all out" air strikes in Gaza today. Palestinians call it "an attack on humanity". I guess the hundreds and hundreds of rocket attacks they've launched upon Isreali civilians were not?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081228/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

This little AR carbine I built is going to be a hoot I can't wait to run it. I'm buying up bulk packs of Winchester brass and 69 gr. SMK's. I haven't fired this one yet and I'm already getting started on the next one. It will be a national match service rifle for high power matches. Maybe I can start collecting more leg points again towards my distinguished badge. The points I have were earned with an M-14 about 19-20 years ago I hope I'm still on file. Now I have a good excuse to finally plan a trip to Perry.

Building an AR in California is a PITA. We have to start with a lower receiver that is not on the list of manufacturers that make assault weapons. We call them "Off List Lowers". We can't have a pistol grip AND an easily removable magazine. So we have a special mag release button that requires a tool to drop the mag. A bullet tip pressed into the hole works so we call them "bullet buttons". And of course we cannot have a magazine with more than 10 rounds capacity inserted into the weapon. That doesn't mean we can't have them, just not in the weapon. If I change out the bullet button to a standard mag release and insert a 30 round mag I have TWO felony counts.

I feel alot safer knowing that all of the gangstah criminals in this state have to follow these rules LOL.

I'm starting to think about HAM radios. Seems that would be a dependable way to communicate with other people if cell and landline systems go down. I really need another expensive hobby with lots of stuff to buy and books to read.

I'm off to bed to stare at the ceiling.

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Sunday, December 28, 2008, at 11:09:37 (ZULU)

Litosan........

I find myself in need of a couple of 'decent' long range backup scopes for the just in case I screw up situations (like I did when I backed a boosted Premier eyepiece plumb off the scope). Is there a particular manufacturer putting out some glass that is reasonably priced and dependable to put on a set of rings and throw in the drag bag/case?

Oh BTW Hawgs, a late Merry Christmas. I have been remiss in my holiday greetings.

Bolt out!

Bolt
Rainy, muddy, yucky weather in ..........., NC, - Sunday, December 28, 2008, at 13:27:49 (ZULU)

Pablo: How would you treat a bucket of '73 LC brass? About 400 rounds of it are still loaded with 150 gr Rems and 748 and about twice that have been through a Ruger. None of the necks have split so far. Would you anneal the necks?

I also have about double that number of Fed match cases loaded light with blaster stuff like 110 gr teacups, 178(?) cast boolets and 125 Speers. I use it to practice snap-shooting. Do you have any thoughts on the use of that stuff? I have a bucket of 170 gr RN Rem .30-30 bullets and was considering putting them together with odd lots of powder as utility ammo for the Ruger.

CDC'
Sunday, December 28, 2008, at 14:43:45 (ZULU)

MarcS...

I feel safer with you, Bud...

Lotta guys here are hams - me, Bravo, Ken Hunter, Sarge, and a bunch more - my call sign - K2BK

It can be not so much expensive - $500 to $1000, or it can get as big as you like - I'm in for well over $30k :(

It's not my fault, I just like to play a lot ;))))

CDC...

I would pull all the bullets...

FL size them and push out the old primers...

Wash them in Liquid Tide and hot water (Not dish detergent - you will NEVER get the bubbles out - take my word on that :((( ...

Dry them with the ol' lady's hair drier (best done when she is at a friends or shopping - they don't understand these things).

Then anneal them. The ~$40 Hornady Annealing kit is "Da' BOMB"!!!

After that, load them with what you like.

As to Fed brass - used to be my favorite, but the heads are kinda soft, so now I trade it. I pretty much now only shoot Lapua, then Winchester, then Remington - in that order.

If someone gave me a bunch of Fed in a gas gun caliber, like 223 or 308, I would load it for a gas gun and leave it behind.

But for heavy loads in a bolt gun, I'll pass on it and trade it off.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, December 28, 2008, at 18:52:24 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Years,

My son is getting real big now, about 17pounds and he's only 4 1/2 months old. I have not had time to shoot a lot with him now just a few rounds out of the 1911.I'm going to try and make a winter match in a few weeks I hope I shoot good its been since April since the last time I was out with my match rifle. Anyways I'm rambling.

No drinking and driving for you guys this new years.

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Sunday, December 28, 2008, at 21:17:00 (ZULU)

Well wifey-clause come through again. ( so i thought)My birthday was sunday, and she handed me a well used 1911. With that she told me "since you took that firearms refinishing work shop 3 weeks ago i thought i would scrape up some work for you". Here i thought they were mine to keep. Guess not.

Bolt

Don't know exactly what your after, but i've got a Ziess Conquest i use for a throw around scope. I think itis the best bang for the buck scope out there.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Monday, December 29, 2008, at 11:03:45 (ZULU)

Hey Jon-K...

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year too.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, December 29, 2008, at 12:14:24 (ZULU)

shalom all

CatShooter

one for you what is the Average group size in your galil ?

whit the new galils it's 3 cm .

avi

avi
haifa, is, is - Monday, December 29, 2008, at 17:00:22 (ZULU)

Catman nailed it - amateur radio is one of those hobbies you can spend very little on, or everything you can scrape up.

Click on my name for photos of a nice antenna farm.

de AK5N

Happy New Year everyone!

Lindy
Rockport, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, December 29, 2008, at 18:02:08 (ZULU)

Avi...

I can't answer that now, I just got a proper Stanag scope for it a few months ago and haven't shot since then.

I'll let you know in the spring.

I liked the link in your name and signed the petition!

Send them a rocket with our name on it !!!

"Here's one from SniperCountry!!"

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, December 29, 2008, at 18:02:50 (ZULU)

Catshooter -- you kinda gave my sick mind an idear... We should hold a raffle, then take the $$ to help sponsor a rocket from SniperCountry to Hesbola - LOL....

Take care all and Have a Happy New Year.

Rogue Rifleman
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Tuesday, December 30, 2008, at 03:59:54 (ZULU)

Hey Roguey...

It workie for me!

How come you no answer my last few e-mails??

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, December 30, 2008, at 12:18:03 (ZULU)

>>"Here's one from SniperCountry!!"<<<

Avi,

Get a picture of it and post it or send it to me through the Roster and I'll post it.

Mk4

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Tuesday, December 30, 2008, at 19:00:15 (ZULU)

Whadda you guys think about the Lake City green tip "penetrator" stuff? I think it's called M855 and I was told it's a 62 grain steel core bullet. I'd like to know what you think of it and if $550 for 1K rounds would be a good deal. This would be for my carbine not a match gun.

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Wednesday, December 31, 2008, at 03:43:28 (ZULU)

Some sites I've been surfing lately:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/

http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/index.php

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Wednesday, December 31, 2008, at 04:22:14 (ZULU)

Greetings,

M855 ball seems to shoot better out of the faster twist stuff. I have shot a lot of it out of M16A2s and M4 carbines. Accurate enough for its intended purpose and functioned fine. When the army was transitioning from the M16A1s to the M16A2s in the mid to late 80s I shot some M855 ball out of a A1 and IIRC it was keyholeing at 25 yards.

Lots and lots has been written about the decreased lethality of the heavier, more stable M855. More than one of my friends that has been downrange has complained about it's terminal ballisitics, but I do not have any first hand experience with that and will leave it for those who have.

550/1000 sounds a little steep to me.

Antidotal rather than emphircal(sorry for the spelling) information, FWIW.

Pat II
Wednesday, December 31, 2008, at 05:16:46 (ZULU)

It's appreciated Pat thanks. I'll skip that deal.

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Wednesday, December 31, 2008, at 14:03:03 (ZULU)

Marc,

Load your own. $55 per k for hornady 55gr ball tips... powder, primer and cases are not much more.

medicjim
Wednesday, December 31, 2008, at 15:25:11 (ZULU)

MarcS,

If you are not into reloading and you're lookin' for some reasonably priced ammo you might want to try Waterloo Ammunition. One of Morgue's buddies is making some pretty good stuff. Don't know if he will deal direct or if you'll have to go thru a dealer. Drop me a note if you're interested and I'll give you his contact info.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The frosty Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2008, at 15:42:44 (ZULU)

Is there a bag limit on morons?

I was in Bass Pro Shops yesterday, with a gift card, and asked the service desk lady to tell me how much was on the card. She swiped it, punched some code, swiped again, punched more numbers.... this went on for several minutes. She said, "well, hehehe, you know how these computers are...". Finally, she asked the lady next to her, who then swiped the card, punched a few numbers, and "PING", out comes the paper with the amount on the card.

Life is hard. It's harder if you're stoopid. It's even tougher if you're stoopid, ugly, and morbidly obese. She won the triple crown.

I purchased some 12-GA buckshot and slugs, so at least there was a happy ending...

Duman
Wednesday, December 31, 2008, at 17:40:16 (ZULU)

To all you Roster HAWG's, and moreso, the HOG's,

Have a safe, comfortable, and secure New Year's Eve. May your head not hurt the following day!

Thank you for the continued education, all.

Looking forward to a prosperous '09.

Sean T.
Winnipeg,, Manitoba, Canada - Wednesday, December 31, 2008, at 18:37:39 (ZULU)

Wishing all a safe and happy new year! Been a while for me here but family illnes has kept me busy. Hope all is well with everyone. Looking for some 06 brass at a reasonable price. Military would be great. Looked at lake city but they are sold out. Reloading things are drying up a bit since we have change on the way. Also looking for a place to buy CCI #200 primers. Pickins are getting slim where I buy them. Around here ammo and guns are flying off the shelves like they are growing wings..... Never seen anything like it.

If anyone wishes to give it a bang ... Here is the load I use in my 03A3 for white tail..

30-06

Powder: 50 gr IMR 4895

Primer: CCI #200

Bullet: 150 gr spear or sierra BTSP spitzer

Case: any/ prefer military..

average about 1/4" group @ 100 yd. Few stray doggies here and there.

Keep life free and keep it safe...

zane

zane
Texas, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2008, at 20:47:04 (ZULU)

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