Gadsden, TN, - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 00:21:29 (ZULU)
JC Thanks again for the shooting today and the Scenars. I really enjoyed my self. Just checked my humidore, SADDLY, I'm out of OpusX. I thought I still had a few. Maybe Cohiba, Montecristo, or some AFuente GR's of some type will do? I thought I'd never say this, but I've also got some Macanudos that I actually recomend.
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 00:21:29 (ZULU)
"Charlie Wilson's War" opens 21-Dec-2007 in the theaters.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472062/
(based on the non-fiction book)
A drama based on a Texas congressman Charlie Wilson's covert dealings in Afghanistan, where his efforts to assist rebels in their war with the Soviets have some unforeseen and long-reaching effects.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 01:10:52 (ZULU)
http://demigodllc.com/articles/military-338-lapua-rifles-trg42-awsm/
Duman
Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 01:26:39 (ZULU)
Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 04:42:50 (ZULU)
Enjoyed it as well. Would've enjoyed it more with some better weather. We probably ought to do it again before long. Hope the Scenars work out for you. Never could get 'em to run like I wanted in 308 or 300WSM. No sweat on the smokes. I've got a good supply of Cohibas and Montecristos (the ones from that south of Florida) as well as plenty of A. Fuentes. Kinda partial to the AF Don Carlos #3 and the Hemingway Signatures. I've been smoking some Montecristo Afrique cigars that ain't half bad. Only place I know that has 'em is J.R. Cigars. All African tobacco with a Cameroon wrapper. Pretty good for a $2 smoke.
Charles,
Try some Dalmore Cigar Malt sometime. Nice single malt made especially for sippin' with a good cigar.
jc
jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 05:24:39 (ZULU)
Guys,
What kinda bullets would you suggest to save money for practice at 100 yards. Of late, my shooting (rifle AND pistol) has gone completely to shit.
Where is a good source of non-precision bulk bullets? I need to be putting hundreds of rounds downrange for a few months.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 06:16:00 (ZULU)
I have a couple of Doctor optics that were... a couple guys dove them and their weapons and well lets just say they got wet and due to that and the ensuing rust, since they weren't properly cleaned afterwards, they no longer work. I have been trying to find a direct contact with the manufacturer but everything I've found hasn't worked. I want to find out about warranties. Does anyone know where I could find the contact info for Doctor Optics?
Thanks
Morgue
"Anyone who clings to the historically untrue, and thoroughly immoral, doctrine that violence never settles anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler would referee. Violence; naked force, has settled more issues in history than any other factor and the contrary is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forgot this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and with their freedoms." -Robert Heinlein
Mourge
Overseas, - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 08:15:10 (ZULU)
Go to youtube.com and search for "nutty buddy" to see just how tough I am.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 10:22:48 (ZULU)
Fucking mall ninja moron, trying to show how to disarm. I'd LOVE to help him demonstrate.Click.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 10:44:48 (ZULU)
What projectile diameter do you want for rifle? Remington and Winchester produce bulk-packaged rifle projectiles that you can purchase in case lots. The Rem FMC 55g .224 is pretty nice, as is their SP 165g .308 projectiles. Midway, Natchez etc as retailers.
I've also played with a reduced .308 Win loading using .30 carbine 110g SP projectiles driven to around 2000+ ft/sec, good 100yd accuracy. Feeding is a bit fussy because it's not very close to a spitzer shape, ok for slow fire practice.
Jeff Bartlett sells pulled projectiles from contract teardown mil-spec ammo.
Remember to add in shipping costs when comparison shopping.
http://www.gibrass.com/projectiles.html
"C" = 100 - "M" = 1000
Item Description
.224 diameter
55 gr. Brand new Sierra production, 55gr Varminter. Sierra #1360.
Sierra $12/100; $55/500; $100/M
.308 diameter
110 gr. Original application is U.S. .30 Carbine Ball M1. This is a FMJ round nose.
Carbine These bullets are collet pulled, however, some may show circular rings on
Ball M1 the ogive caused by occasional over-tightening of the collet. This creates
no problem with loading nor affects accuracy. They are polished and in
very nice condition.
$8/C; $75/M; $210/3M
152 gr. Original application is Cal. 30 Ball M2 (.30-06). Getting to the end of the supply.
Ball M2 These are a flat base spitzer, mixed lots, collet pulled, cleaned and polished.
Look brand new.
$10/C; $80/M; $300/4M
173 gr. Original application was 7.62mm MATCH M118 (loaded 1963-1982). Starting in
MATCH M118 late 1982, nomenclature was changed to 7.62mm NATO Special Ball M118. Special
Ball M118 was discontinued in 1995. These bullets are collet pulled (no marks)
and polished. Excellent condition. Exact same bullet used in the .30-06 Match.
$20/C; $180/M
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 10:57:28 (ZULU)
********************SPEW ALERT***********************
Click. Funniest commercial EVER!
And one we can all appreciate:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krhB_An8fT4
Actual truth in advertising:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTvwwDnrQL8
Tanya Harding actually worried about her image?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEbqrpMn_6s
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 10:57:54 (ZULU)
http://docter-optics.de/hp727/Homepage.htm
Contact
Docter Optics GmbH Headquarters
Mittelweg 29
07806 Neustadt a. d. Orla Tel.: +49 3 64 81-27-0
Fax: +49 3 64 81-27-270
info at docteroptics.com (change at => @)
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 11:35:57 (ZULU)
Thanks for the information. Appreciate it.
Morgue
Joe M. email inbound.
Mourge
Overseas, - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 14:56:29 (ZULU)
Mourge, Robert Heinlein was probably one of the most prescient men I've ever had the pleasure to read. The entire message of "Starship Troopers" was shitcanned when they made the movie, so they could afford to shovel in more special effects. You want the francise, join the military and put the welfare of the whole in front of your welfare for at least one hitch, then you can vote.
Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 15:24:35 (ZULU)
Morgue
Mourge
overseas, - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 15:26:57 (ZULU)
"people had been led to believe that they could simply vote for whatever they wanted... and get it, without toil, without sweat, without tears."
medicjim
Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 16:19:02 (ZULU)
SF can function as a cautionary tale. "If you keep heading that direction, this is what can happen...". It's generally not written to be preachy, but to tell a good story.
Sometimes the picture scares people enough that they take a different direction.
My experience with the genre - things don't change as fast as predicted in the short term, but they do change faster than predicted in the long term.
I'm not sure that RAH originated the concept of military/alternate service to gain citizenship, but he seems to have written the most about it in his fiction. Would probably be a lot less old men sending young men to war if such was a prerequisite.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 16:33:31 (ZULU)
I have a close relative that lives in the Rogue Valley in Oregon. He claims that the people of his area voted to reduce taxes by eliminating funding for things like schools, public libraries, municipal services (to include Law Enforcement)...the consequences are pretty interesting. I'll go out on a limb and bet that the next referendum will re-instate some of those tax funded services...
Mourge - I sent an email back to you with no attachments.
medicjim
Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 16:46:41 (ZULU)
Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 18:04:07 (ZULU)
My gun dealer has a "School Free Zone" sign in his shop window. "No schools allowed within 200 yards."
Some locales have "Gun Free Church Zones". The church in Colorado Springs has an armed security guard, who killed the shooter this past Sunday. She's single, and REALLY pretty.... :8-)
Duman
Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 20:44:14 (ZULU)
From what I am hearing from someone who knows her, she won't be available to you guys.
:o
Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 00:04:05 (ZULU)
JC The middle size Hemmingway is one of my favorites. I like the way they light themselves evenly when you light that little end. You don't heat up the whole cigar trying to get it lit completely. We'll definately hav to shoot again soon. I think my wifes gonna nagg me into getting a winter job soon. She can't understand that I worked as much in 8 months as most do in a year, and deserve the winter off. I can't seem to convince her that deer hunting, chaseing down 1 skip a week, and feeding cows for an hour each morning is a job either. Actually we did have a bad season dusting this year so I can't blame her too much. Thanks Again.
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 01:27:58 (ZULU)
Jeff - don't know about your specific brass, but I have dealt with a bunch of mil-spec brass with crimp primers (9mm NATO, 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO).
Depriming force is not always a tip-off. Big hint - is the resulting primer pocket sharp-edged, or does it have a radius? Radius is a normal pocket. Crimp pockets before "massage" will have sharp edges.
I'll talk about tools for dealing with crimp primer pockets after you have made that determination.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 01:43:16 (ZULU)
Jeff Cooper
gadsden, tn, - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 02:13:47 (ZULU)
Taken from www.ksccw.com Click
For those of us who have "endured" Meals-Ready To Eat (MRE's) and for
anyone who has ever heard of them and wondered what they were like,
this is a classic:
ARMY RANGER DATE
I had a date the other night at my place. On the phone the day before,
the girl asked me to "Cook her something she's never had before" for
dinner.
After many minutes of scratching my head over what to make, I finally
settled on something she has DEFINITELY never eaten.
I got out my trusty case of MRE's. Meal, Ready-to-Eat. Field rations
that when eaten in their entirety contain 3000+ calories. Here's what
I made:
I took three of the Ham Slices out of their plastic packets, took out
three of the Pork Chops, three packets of Chicken-a-la-King, and eight
packets of dehydrated butter noodles and some dehydrated/re hydrated
rice. I cooked the Ham Slices and Pork Chops in one pan, sautéed in
shaved garlic and olive oil.
In another pot, I blended the Chicken a-la-king, noodles, and rice
together to make a sort of mush that looked suspiciously like
succotash. I added some spices, and blended everything together in a
glass pan that I then cooked in the oven for about 35 minutes at 450
degrees.
When I took it out, it looked like, well, ham slices, pork chops, and
a bed of yellow poop. I covered the tops of the meat in the MRE cheese
(kinda like Velveeta) and added some green sprinkly thingys from one
of my spice cans (hey, if it's got green sprinkly thingys on it, it
looks fancy right?)
For dessert, I took four MRE Pound Cakes, mashed 'em up, added five
packets of cocoa powder, powdered coffee cream, and some water. I
heated it up and stirred it until it looked like a sort of chunky
gelatinous organism, and I sprinkled powdered sugar on top of it.
Voila--Ranger Pudding.
For alcoholic drinks, I took the rest of my bottle of Military Special
Vodka (yes, they DO make a type of liquor named "Military Special"--it
sells for $4.35 per fifth) and mixed in four packets of
"Electrolytes - 1 each - Cherry flavored" (I swear, the packet says
that). It looked like an eerie kool-aid with sparkles in it (that was
the electrolytes I guess... could've been leftover sand from Egypt).
I lit two candles, put a vase of wildflowers in the middle, and set
the table with my best set of Ralph Lauren Academy-series China (that
stuff is EXPENSIVE... my set of 8 place settings cost me over
$600), and put the alcoholic drink in a crystal wine decanter.
She came over, and I had some appetizers already made, of MRE
spaghetti-with-meatballs, set in small cups. She saw the dinner, saw
the food, and said "This looks INCREDIBLE!!!"
We dug in, and she was loving the food. Throughout the meal, she kept
asking me how long it took me to make it, and kept remarking that I
obviously knew a thing or two about cooking fine meals. She kind of
balked at the makeshift "wine" I had set out, but after she tried it I
guess she liked it because she drank four glasses during dinner.
At the end of the main course, when I served the dessert, she squealed
with delight at the "Chocolate mousse" I had made. Huh? Chocolate
what? Okay... yeah... it's Chocolate Moose. Took me HOURS to make...
yup.
Later on, as we were watching a movie, she excused herself to use my
restroom. While she was in there, I heard her say softly to herself
"uh oh" and a resounding but petite fart punctuated her utterance of
dismay.
Let the games begin.
She sprayed about half a can of air freshener (Air Freshener, 1 each,
Orange scent. Yup. The Army even makes smell good) and returned to the
couch, this time with an obvious pained look.
After 10 more minutes she excused herself again, and retreated to the
bathroom for the second time. I could hear her say "What the hell is
WRONG with me???," as she again send flatulent shock waves into the
porcelain bowl.
This time, they sounded kinda wet, and I heard the toilet paper roll
being employed, and again, LOTS more air freshener.
Back to the couch. She smiles meekly as she decides to sit on the
chair instead of next to me. She sits on my chair, knees pulled up to
her chest, kind of rocking back and forth slightly. Suddenly, without
a word, she ROCKETED up and FLEW to the bathroom, slammed the door,
and didn't come out for 30 minutes.
I turned the movie up because I didn't want her to hear me laughing so
hard that tears were streaming down my cheeks.
She came out with a slightly gray pallor to her face, and said "I am
SOOOOOO sorry. I have NO idea what is wrong with me. I am so
embarrassed, I can't believe I keep running to your bathroom!!" I gave
her an Imodium AD, and she finally settled down and relaxed.
Later on, she asked me again what I had made for dinner, because she
had enjoyed it so much. I calmly took her into the kitchen and showed
her all the used MRE bags and packets in the trash can.
After explaining to her that she had eaten roughly 9,000 calories of
"Army food" she turned stark white, looked at me incredulously, and
said "I ate 9,000 calories or dehydrated food that was made 3 years
ago?" After I concurred, she grabbed her coat and keys, and took off
without a word.
She called me yesterday. Seems she couldn't **** for 3 days, and when
she finally did, the smell was so bad, her roommate could smell it
from down the hall. She also told me she had been working out nonstop
to combat the high caloric intake, and that she never wanted me to
cook dinner for her again, unless she was PERSONALLY there to inspect
the food beforehand.
It was a fun date. She laughed about it eventually, and said that that
was the first time she'd ever crapped in a guy's house on a date.
She'd been so upset by it she was in tears in the bathroom while I had
been in tears on the couch.
__________________
Beware the man who only has one gun. He probably knows how to use it!
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 02:18:24 (ZULU)
I vaguely recall that they don't crimp match brass. If that is what you have that would explain the lack of crimp.
Rod Regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 03:37:03 (ZULU)
Travis;
For short range practice I find nothing beats a good .22LR rifle and pistol with decent ammo. The basic shooting techniques are the same for any rifle/pistol regardless of caliber. The only real difference in approach comes when you have to deal with weather, distance, etc, but trigger control, breathing, follow through, body position, and mental focus are still the same. This is how I do it, your milage may vary.
If you need to be doing centerfire there are several bullet companies that offer discounted "seconds". You could call them and ask.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 04:29:44 (ZULU)
Travis IMHO If you've got a .223 just get some of the army surplus from www.cheaperthandirt.com. Also, Jody's right about a 22LR and practice for technique. Get the Green Tag or other quality ammo. Costs more, but still a lot less than center fire, and you can shoot 100 yrd with it and not have to worry about the quality of ammo degrading accuracy. Just my oppinion. Hay, lol, Hey, how'd you like my stock. Ugly commercial muts aren't they. Got a good bit of Angus and Hereford in them but the ones that show it the most, were in the back when I went to feed.
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 04:32:42 (ZULU)
Please, Read each slide, and appreciate our inheritance. Thanks to all veterans for your service and sacrifice my brothers!
Just click my initials.
And, BTW, there's a reason why my initials are in lower case. The upper case initials were set aside for someone who died a little over two-thousand years ago. We'll be celebrating his Birthday in a couple of weeks.
Yeah, it's a little early, but Merry Christmas everyone.
jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 05:18:25 (ZULU)
I've been looking around online trying to get the Low down on Boar hunting in Texas. I read that you can hunt them year around, with a license, but when i was looking at a couple sites, it seemed to indicate that Boar fall under exotics and there IS a season. I also read somewhere that a guide is required. So, I am curious anyone who lives out that way know the skinny?
Morgue
MedicJim, Email inbound, Chuck shot one headed your way as well.
Travis, LMAO, haven't seen that in way to long.
EDITED TO ADD
A Texas rancher got in his pickup and drove to a neighboring ranch and knocked at the door A young boy, about 9, opened the door.
"Is yer Dad home?" the rancher asked.
"No sir, he ain't," the boy replied. "He went into town."
"Well," said the rancher, "is yer Mom here?"
"No, sir, she ain't here neither. She went into town with Dad."
"How about your brother, Howard? Is he here?"
"He went with Mom and Dad."
The rancher stood there for a few minutes, shifting from one foot to the other and mumbling to himself.
"Is there anything I can do fer ya?" the boy asked politely. "I knows where all the tools are, if you want to borry one. Or maybe I could take a message fer Dad."
"Well," said the rancher uncomfortably, "I really wanted to talk to yer Dad. It's about your brother How ard getting my daughter, Pearly Mae, pregnant."
The boy considered for a moment. "You would have to talk to Pa about that" he finally conceded. "If it helps you any, I know that Pa charges $50 for the bull and $25 for the hog, but, I really don't know how much he gets fer Howard."
Mourge
overseas, - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 05:34:21 (ZULU)
Guys,
For the 100 yard practice I was talking about, I currently only have one bolt gun, my .30-06.(money's been awful tight, I'm down to the basics) All the other rifles are cowboy guns. I'm not that big of a fan of scopes, for this part of the country.
Most of the training is due to my back being screwed up. I need to work on holding the gun, mostly. I get a lot of pain after the first 20 minutes or so of shooting, and I have to be kinda warmed up to shoot decent. Kinda sucks, not being able to skid the truck to a stop, yank out a rifle, snap to and shoot. (coyotes)
Morgue,
I've always liked that one!
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 07:54:07 (ZULU)
Travis Morgan
wICHITA, Ks., USA - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 11:00:01 (ZULU)
Sharon
Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 13:50:52 (ZULU)
Sharon
Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 14:51:28 (ZULU)
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 15:03:31 (ZULU)
"Around here the news media is bedazzled that the security guard was a woman. They can't get past that.
The local media did a survey of local churches and found that some larger churches had armed guards and the pastor was actually armed during the sevice. One pastor responded: 'A lot of people don't know Jesus Christ, but most of them know Smith & Wesson.'"
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 15:39:53 (ZULU)
Great job by the Officers!
S/F
Finger
Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 17:02:43 (ZULU)
Joe M
Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 19:40:05 (ZULU)
Well that's my life for a while!
Sarge
PS - some advantages: 1) more $$$ 2)dang near every week-end off 3) all holidays off 4) about every 3rd week will end up with 5 straight days off
Disadvantages - right now I'm not even sure I can list them all!!
Oh well the job needs to be done and I'M THE ONE TO GET IT DONE!!
Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 20:58:48 (ZULU)
No seriously... congratulations and I'm sure you'll do a great job. Be sure to stock up on NSAIDs, you might need em'
medicjim
Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 21:01:54 (ZULU)
Duman
Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 22:38:44 (ZULU)
Guys,
Anyone else thinking the NRA ought to be dragging Sarah Brady out for a televised debate, right now? It would seem that people nationwide are sick of getting hurt, and not being allowed their second ammendment right.
Finger,
It's kinda hard for 2 people to form a diamond. A "V", maybe, but not a diamond. From what I've heard, there were only two armed guards at that church, a man and a woman. Apparently, the "man" couldn't get a shot from cover.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, December 12, 2007, at 23:23:58 (ZULU)
I Got a email about a new type of suicide bomber that people should look out for and wanted to take the time to share.
BTW NSFW
Mourge
Overseas, - Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 03:54:48 (ZULU)
Strange happenings:
First, my last weimer died. just fell over in her tracks, no warnings.
Then I bag a doe. With my truck. No damage--not even a smudge in the dirt (it needs a bath), but it was a heck of a ride avoiding the pack of idiot deer with a death wish. Almost made it after braking on the first, zigging inside of the second, and trying accelerate ahead of the third. I either have ironsides on the ford, or another one got taken out by the back tire. Heheh.
So the wife wants to get a new dog for the girls (hey whatta bout me?)--and decides it will be a "cavalier King Charles lap dog"--not a bad choice, but not what i think the girls need: A good solid upland birder! Oh well---I guess we get two then, eh? the laprat comes home x-mas eve.
Now I'm late with feeding the animals. I get "the look" when I grab the carbine---again. But it is payday out by the barn tonight (in more ways than 1). The yodelers are just beyond the fence raising hell when I get there. I poke around the north end (high side) of the barn, and light up the alfalfa field with the surefire attached, and four yotes take off running dead away. I no sooner pick up my dot in the circle of the eotech when the gun starts barking out orders to stop. Familiarity is magic stuff. The safety and trigger were subconscious results. I figured that no way I hit anything with that barrage of 55gr amaxes. But, one yote died at the fence (75yds), another died 20 yrds further out, and another maybe 30 more. No sign of the fourth. Damnedest easy yote hunt ever. Later, the wife asked about the noise and i told her i bagged three yotes. She asked, "why'd you shoot 7 times then? Practicing for next time?" So much for feeling pretty good. But that was after:
I went to check the water troughs, and got to the farthest one from the buildings. I'm looking at the tracks--bunnies, deer, dogs..and a really clear print of a big dog (I have one of those LED headlamps on). Something ain't right about that last print---I do not know any dogs that much bigger than the labs and retrievers in the neighborhood, so I light it up with that surefire. No claws, and three very distinct lobes on the heel pad...shit! The hair stands up on my neck and all of a sudden I am not liking being so close to the pines! I swept the woodline as fast as i was backing into the open...
That is as picture-perfect a cougar track as you'll find in the books. I decided that the water could wait, and that I ought to start carrying more mags with heavier bullets. I want to get a photo of that track, with ruler--to see just how big this cat might be.
Some thoughts:
A surefire does not get brighter when you squeeze it harder.
An eotech has a better zero than the center of a mounted light beam (I probably chased the light on the last, far dog)
An M4 feels much smaller when looking at a cat track that wasn't there yesterday.
I felt like i was being watched the last few days while walking fences. I should pay more attention to that feeling. Little things, like leaves rustling ahead of a breeze, or a branch that moves against the wind on the hillside--things that the mind picks up even if your consciousness is focused on hot-wire insulators...gotta pay heed to that stuff.
Finally, my wife teases me about my M4 forrays. She thought that I was just reliving my glory days. She also has seen one cat already two years back--but wished it away as a one-off. I noticed she brought her 870 up by the door tonight. Heheh.
Joe M
Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 04:52:28 (ZULU)
Joe M.,
One of my Border Collies just had 9 pups the other night, and you're sure welcome to half a dozen or so! IF they take after their Dad, nobody will EVER get near your family without your say so. He's athletic as hell,(the most athletic dog I've ever had) has a lot of "eye", is natural on stock, and don't mind thumpin' a coyote now and again. The Mom is a little milder acting.
They're both smart enough that you can just talk to them like people and point to what you want. I swear they're smarter than my in-laws.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 06:12:36 (ZULU)
The resident manager of an apartment complex where my former wife and I used to live had a female Aus. Shepherd. Well, we became friends with the resident manager and were around the dog a lot. Just so happened that I had to fill in on a night shift and my wife didn't like being alone so the res. mgr. told her to take the dog with her for the night. I forgot all about that when I got off and headed home. Got home while it was still dark and was trying my best to keep from waking my former wife so there I am in the living room trying to be as quiet as I can while taking all the crap off my belt. I had just laid some piece of gear on the coffee table when that dog - as quietly as a ghost - came up behind me and touched her nose to the back of my calf. Quiet went out the window. That dog almost gave ma a heart attack. I'm pretty sure that if it had been someone the dog didn't recognize there would have been teeth on a calf muscle instead of a nose.
She was also a damn good cattle dog. First dog I ever saw that knew left from right. She was a joy to watch when she was working cattle.
jc
jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 06:45:50 (ZULU)
Australian shepherds are my other favorite. If they bark, it ain't a squirrel. Grab a gun. They are the quietest dog I know of. They remind me of a bobcat. Border Collies and Australin Shepherds generally won't shit near the house, either.
Growing up, we had a Border/Australian Shepherd cross, and it was years before I discovered where he was "going". He was going across the road in the ditch! Talk about considerate!
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 06:59:10 (ZULU)
I read off the news of the Colorodo shooting to my wife and asked if I now should carry even at church. Normally, she would roll her eyes, but this time she just looked at me and shrugged. I call that progress. `Spect we`ll be getting her once-fired S&W M&P compact out for some excercize after the new year.
On a related note....
Mrs. and I rode shotgun on the Salv. Arm. kettle in the mall for our church last week. Strict gun-free zone, doncha` know (but not signs at ALL the entrances, wink, wink). Very interesting study in human nature to say the least. She was donning the red vest and I was security (Yes, I was!). Old gentleman came up with Calv. patch on hat and thanked me for saying "Merry Christmas" instead of the usual PC crap when he dropped his loot in the bucket. Had a nice long chat with him. Seemed he was sick and tired of his country the way it was heading. Amen! Made me want to sign up then and there.
Calvin, how far are you from Beckleys Camping and RV on RT 15? It`s my new second home since the TT purchase. I`ll be looking you up one of these days, dude.
Steve Racer
PA, - Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 07:16:19 (ZULU)
Joe If you get that pic of the cat print with ruller, email me one. I'd like to see what real big cat tracks look like compared to the ones that the TWRA says don't exist here in TN. 500 S&W sounds like a good close cat/bear gun to me. Tucked in a quick draw holster. I've got a hillarious story about my best friends brother coming back from his deer stand with his muzzle loader and refusing to return till gun season. Apparently the nonexistant momma cat and three cubs walked within 15yds of his stand. TWRA says they don't exist here, that they'd have to be a released/escaped pet and to shootem on sight. The law says they are protected here, and off limits. All I know is when we start seeing cat tracks we quit seeing deer. I haven't been 15 yds from one but I've seen two from the air.
Sorry about your dog, I'd be worse than a woman if mine died.
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, Tn, - Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 13:17:10 (ZULU)
We lucked out on the ice storm. Most of it was north of us. I just called to BS. Got right thru on the land line. My small-town phone company now has unlimited long distance for a flat rate of $20/month so I try not to use my cel when I'm home. I hate their lousy fidelity. We had to put our Alaskan Malamute down in October and have been looking for a suitable replacement. He was almost twelve so we were pretty torn up. The wife wanted a lap dog and I wanted "BIG". I have no idea why; but she decided we "needed" an American Mastiff! She should be on heck of a lap full. Her Mom weighs 150 pounds and her Dad goes 185! We're off to Ohio this afternoon to pick her up. We don't have any of those big pussy cats down here in Missouri either! I've heard one and my closest neighbor has seen one! One of the main reasons my Kimber goes with me when I'm out cutting wood. May just start dragging along my M4 as well.
Cheers & Merry Christmas,
Doc
Doc Holloway
The cloudy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 13:55:22 (ZULU)
Back when I was a 'kid' of 25, I was heading to the station on a working house fire with 'devices' found in the inside of the house (the arsonist was trying to kill us)...I was at the speed limit, but conditions were poor and I should have been moving slower. I crested a ridge and found the entire road occupied with mature eastern white tails. I left my totalled car in the roadside and responded the rest of the way in the back of a patrol car....the officer had to put down three of the five deer I hit...the other two died quick. --good times--
medicjim
Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 14:40:13 (ZULU)
JoeM....I had a truly frightening run-in with a mountain lion in the Big Bend national park a few years back. There's no bluffing a lion. We ever get together, I'll go into it. Still gives me the chills.
Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 14:47:14 (ZULU)
Joe sorry to hear about your dog. but while we are talking about some of the breeds that don't live up to their stereotype, I truly love my Rotty she is great. She sleeps on the foot of my bed... or on the bed... LOL... makes it difficult to roll over when she Lays across my feet. But she is one of the sweetest dogs I've ever had. It really does come down to how you raise them. My family and guns rate obviously, but other than that she is one of the few things that I miss out here. BWG
As for the big cat, I don't know... seems to me that I would want something a touch bigger than a 556 to hold a conversation with... If you like rolling with the M4 you could always get a 50 beowulf. As for a pistol... I think I would go with the 460 S&W. Its got enough power to drop a BIG animal and has the ability to shoot several other rounds. 45 LC, 454 cassual, 410 shorts and the 460 S&W. its got some versatility to it and multiple uses.
Well gents, take care...
catch you later
Morgue
Area 51
Have you heard of the Air Force's ultra-high-security,
super-secret base in Nevada, known simply as "Area 51"?
Well, late one afternoon, the Air Force folks out at Area 51
were very surprised to see a Cessna landing at their
"secret" base. They immediately impounded the aircraft and
hauled the pilot into an interrogation room.
The pilot's story was that he took off from Las Vegas, got
lost, and spotted the base just as he was about to run out
of fuel. The Air Force started a full FBI background check
on the pilot and held him overnight during the
investigation.
By the next day, they were finally convinced that the pilot
really was lost and wasn't a spy. They gassed up his
airplane, gave him a terrifying "you-did-not-see-a-base"
briefing, complete with threats of spending the rest of his
life in prison, told him Las Vegas was that-a-way on
such-and-such a heading, and sent him on his way.
The next day, to the total disbelief of the Air Force, the
same Cessna showed up again. Once again, the MPs surrounded
the plane -- only this time there were two people in the
plane.
The same pilot jumped out and said, "Do anything you want to
me, but my wife is in the plane and you have to tell her
where I was last night!"
Mourge
Overseas, - Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 17:02:00 (ZULU)
Jeff: I know that one line of Pits is set up for the bad rep...but i cannot get past the line in EVERY news article on attacks. Goes like this: "I just do not understand it...(the pit) never did anything like this before..." I did meet one last night (earlier on) at the lapdog breeder; this Pit was overwieght (steroids due to severe allegies) and quite funny looking. I mean, I had to ask--"is this a pitbull???" Heheh. Looked more like a circus clown:)) sweet dog too, but i can't afford those meds! heheh.
I think I will try rescue networks (lotsa Aussies of all stripe) or the local shelters in the north-half of the state. I have the set up for three large mostly-outdoor dogs, with room inside for the below freezing days and nights (like now). Plus the lapdog. The King Charles Spaniel will cost me enough--so I am looking on the cheap for my new buddy.
Travis: If you are serious--hit me offline. The plan here is to put cattle on the land this spring. It'd be cool to have a breed that likes to go get them:))
I went back out to the trough, and so did the horses. The area is all trampled up again. The animal was pointed toward the cedar/pine groves--but i ain't real anxious to go tooling in there alone. It is fairly tight with zero vis.
Morgue: I think my .44 is plenty enough sidearm--the bigger calibers may hit with more authority--but they aren't nearly as much fun to shoot. I like shooting my .44, it isn't anywhere near as bad as the reputation. My old one was a 4", the new is a 5" classic--a bit heavier. the old one was a relative pussycat, this one is even milder. That all translates to practice and use. Better to be good with all you can handle, than to be marginal with overkill. As for the M4, it does have 30 of the little bullets:)) Or 23, if you have a coyote party on the way to the cat meeting. It is fast to point, and it stays pointed where you point it as the bullets follow each other in. I think in a hurry, I'd rather have the hose-stream of 5.56mm RIGHT NOW than a slug that missed by inches with a follow up...coming soon....about to happen....boom. The only bad choice though is to not have one of anything when you need something:))
Joe M
Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 17:54:11 (ZULU)
UnPat
UnPat
Wi, USA - Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 19:53:12 (ZULU)
The only thing I ought to make a criteria for my next dog is that whatever comes home should not eat lapdogs and cats nor chase horses:)
Joe M
Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 21:10:21 (ZULU)
Imagine the suprise my folks got when all of a sudden the County Board met and listed a whole bunch of dogs on a no-no nazi list,
And the County Execs own personal pet who had 2 Bites/Attacks on people,Registered at the Sherriffs office failed to make this list.Rotts were number 1 on the list up there. There are alot of communities doing this, BTW.
Glad to hear yours isnt one of them.
Couple months ago,made a run up there.94 about Mauston or so.Seen a Cougar on the side of road draggin a road kill deer carcass off.3 S's comes to mind if ya tag that. Shoot,Shovel,Say Nothing.
UnPat
UnPat
Wi, USE - Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 21:53:04 (ZULU)
Back when I lived in The Republic, a friend of a friend was on the local tac team. I never hung out with him myself, but he would stop in and visit the same time I was there, so I did hear quite a bit. Well, the tac team guy had a buddy – IIRC he said the friend was a cop too. In any case, The Republic – the populated areas at least – was known for huge churches. The cop was in church one Sunday, one of those churches, in Ft. Worth. A nutjob came in and started shooting up the place – including the cop’s kid. I tried quickly looking up the shooting, to cite specifics, but couldn’t find it easily – this wasn’t the Wedgewood shooting of ’99 (which swamped the results that did pull up), I moved out of The Republic long, long before ’99. Although Wedgewood would also be quite illustrative for these purposes.
As the tac guy told the story, the cop didn’t believe in carrying in church – after all, what would ever happen there, right? The tac guy said he sure as *#@! carried in church and everywhere else after that – according to him, all the cop could do was hold his son as he died in his arms.
My wake-up call (the second one – I ignorantly dismissed the first one as a fluke) happened while I was living in The Republic – a stinkin’ lousy cafeteria food restaurant that I hated and my girlfriend loved. Which meant that I ate there far more than I preferred. Look that one up on the internet as the Luby’s massacre. The fact I wasn’t there that day was the grace of God. I started carrying 24/7 – and since the statute of limitations is far over, I ought to admit that this was long before The Republic got wise about allowing permits. As an aside, it was due to what happened at that Luby’s – and a girl caught legally disarmed there at that time – that Texas did have their CCW law ram-rodded through. When I was doing it, carrying was automatic jail time. If caught – which I wasn’t.
But I don’t live in The Republic any more, and haven’t for many, many years. Where I’m at, they issue permits – and don’t get me started about how a permit is effectively an unconstitutional tax and turning a right into a privilege! It’s all true, but so is the federal extortion – it’s a way of life, and paying makes life more simple. So I’ve got a permit, and I carry. 24/7. I also am the youth minister at my church – and that pistol guards the lot of everyone. If someone wants to hurt one of ‘my’ kids, they’re gonna have to do it over my dead body. That was done with the consent of the pastor, but if he’d not consented, I would have either changed churches or just done it anyway.
Luckily, where I’m at, in my denomination, many of the pastors are armed. The way my pastor put it to me was that I’d be surprised at what most of the pulpits in the association contained. My permit covers me to carry essentially everywhere that I go (churches, schools, etc), and most places I don’t (bars, airports, etc). The only way a church can prevent you from carrying here is by stating that you can’t, through signs and a reference on the state permit website and such. There’s one church that has done so, and I wouldn’t even consider going there regardless of the carry factor. For me, there are no ‘gun free zones’ that apply – only federal buildings and courthouses. And the twice-per-year that I step on a plane, have to check the pistol in the baggage before going into the ‘secure area’.
Shifting gears: For the last couple of years, my boy and I have done our stints ringing the bell for the Salvation Army too – outside the doors of the local chinamart. We’ve always said Merry Christmas too, without concern or rebuke. But then again, I try to tell people that this state has it’s own time zone – when entering the state via the two major highways, you’ll see a sign that reminds you to set your watch back 50 years.
Keeping this in mind, I’ve also adopted celebrating Tossmas. What’s Tossmas? When the sale ads come out with “happy holidays”, they get tossed. “Seasons Greetings”? Toss. “Merry Christmas”? Sure! Now they’re speaking my language. I’ve never heard anyone refer to Thanksgiving, Presidents Day (ugh!), or Valentines Day with “seasons greetings” or “happy holidays”. So people twist what is real – and that roughly 90% of America agrees with – to humor the 10% that find Christianity offensive. I’m not talking about people like our good friend Jim – even though he doesn’t believe, there’s no ‘twisting’ going on there. Ditto with our Jewish friends – I’ve been told “we celebrate Hanukah” and that’s wonderful – I can wish them a happy Hanukah as well. Yeah, I actually wish people a happy holiday I don’t believe in – it’s called being adult. We all know who is pushing the buttons, and I’m about to decide that anyone displaying the crescent flag should be treated like someone waving the flag of the k-k-k-klub. This is, after all, America. There is no right to not be offended – and if Merry Christmas offends people, then they ought to either keep it under their hat or stay inside for the month of December – nobody says that to offend anyone. And I’m certainly not offended when someone wishes me happy Hanukah!
Diversity? OK. Tolerance? Great. Making me change the last two hundred plus years of heritage and history just so someone can ‘not be offended’ by the direct reference to Christianity with Merry Christmas? Forget it – have a great Tossmas.
Guess who’s back… back again… Bravo’s back… making friends…
Maybe I'm just posting 'cause it appeared nobody was listening ;-)
Bravo
Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 22:06:46 (ZULU)
DNR's official position is that "there are no wolves south of rt 28"--nudge, nudge; wink, wink. (Bet Rod knows that one)
So, no official worries on yotes---ya can shoot the big ones too since they don't exist in these parts.
Freakin' wind picked up today...as if cold wasn't cold enough:((
Joe M
Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 22:19:32 (ZULU)
http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/CalThomas/2007/12/13/praise_the_lord_and_pass_the_ammunition
HDR
OK, - Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 22:40:42 (ZULU)
Here-Here, and good on ya. I cannot argue with a single point, as well as I totally agree.
I just pray that more people do too.
Joe, a suggestion. Check out the Tibetan Mastiff, as well as the Hungarian Kuvasz. I'm sure you'll be impressed at what they're bred for, and how they go about life. I've had two of the latter, and can honestly say they are sure impressive. Friend had the former, two of those as well.
God Bless All, and Stay Safe,
Sean.
Sean T.
Winterpeg, Manisnowba, Canada - Thursday, December 13, 2007, at 23:35:26 (ZULU)
You're going to have to come up with much more obscure M---y P----n references to keep me guessing - right Bruce?
Since this is SC, how about...How Not To Be Seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zekiZYSVdeQ
And a parody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Q-mu-wrK8
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, December 14, 2007, at 00:08:13 (ZULU)
Nat Geo Channel ran a program on a Bear photographer that had a run in w/ a Cougar,it came in the back yard and killed his dog.So his new intrest was filmin a cat.Very elusive.Very finicky....Bait and watch didnt always work.Took him WEEKS to get it on film,eating deer,crunchin bones,it was really neat to see this thing at work.To me they are a very beautiful animal and I would love to have hangin on my wall.Some of the old time trappers used to claim cougar meat was the best eating.That may have been out of desperation,as the thought of eating a pussy that big just doesnt sound natural...
About 6-8 months ago they had a Cougar sighting in a industrial park over in Frankiln.The Franklin Police surround the woods it ran into...maybe 5 acres or so.Nothing came out....LOL....Cougars dont exist in Franklin either.
Cougar scratches and bites are the worst for infection.All the dead,decaying meat in the claws and teeth is a breeding ground for bacteria. Contact your vet or hit a Farm and Barn and have some antibiotics on hand for your horses,just in case.Something like that close by ya cant be too careful.Sounds like that critter is gettin a lil too adj to humans....Do us all a favor.
UnPat
UnPat
Wi, USA - Friday, December 14, 2007, at 00:32:54 (ZULU)
You goin' on about the anti-theists again? After all, someone who is offended by a wish of "Merry Christmas" is clearly not just practicing the absence of religion.
medicjim
Friday, December 14, 2007, at 01:04:16 (ZULU)
Ken M
IL, USA - Friday, December 14, 2007, at 01:06:59 (ZULU)
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Friday, December 14, 2007, at 02:08:23 (ZULU)
Cougar ammunition for M4 -
Handload with the .224 70g Barnes TSX projectile is probably just the thing.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/tsx-bullet/
http://www.intlmidway.com/intl/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?SaleItemID=837001
Or the Corbon 62g .223 Rem DPX (DPX22362/20) in a factory loading
http://www.intlmidway.com/intl/eproductpage.exe/ShowProduct?saleitemid=467277
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, December 14, 2007, at 03:29:38 (ZULU)
On the head shot movers: One yote last night died of a headwound---but honestly, that was an accident. I really thought they were further away as I shot, and had held high for the drop. The other two got enemas to some degree:)) The flashlight deal makes depth perception go out the window...
Rod's idea has merits. DPX for now...reloading 223 needs to wait on other purchases just yet. I'm just getting started, and one-caliber at a time seems to be the affordable way to do it:))
Rod: On the goggle idea--I went thru the same trials--only with tax payer money and not my own. I found that most things that seal will fog up, and not all wrap arounds block enough wind thru the nose area to be useful. I'd say my harley days in Mass were the proving grounds--I rode well past the first freeze, right up til the salt hit the roads (yeah, I have some "save stories" on ice patches). I liked the old Cat design by RB back then, but now use M-Frame Oakley's with the assorted mid-length lenses. I also have a set of Smith's with slide out lenses that I really like. best part--neither fogs up, with the wind blocking edge going to the Mframes. I do have a set of brand new ski goggles of the issue variety somewhere---if you want them, you can have them. It'd be my pleasure to put them to good use finally. I'll never wear two pair, and my wife is not a huge fan of skiing since taking up horses and trucking. When i find them, I'll digitalize them and email you what they look like. Icey road harley riding: Maybe I really was immortal back then...
I think they are ESS for the make.
Joe M
Friday, December 14, 2007, at 03:56:39 (ZULU)
medicjim
Friday, December 14, 2007, at 04:09:53 (ZULU)
(OK, that is a smart assed thing to say)...but it is true: I got spoiled. Like at the eye doc's when he said "oh...you are a pilot...here, you get to pick frames from THIS book instead..." Yeah; top shelf stuff.
Rod: email inbound with .jpg attachments. The close ups are a tad blurry--the screen resolved them, the camera did not. But it shows what you need to see to judge whether these will work for ya.
Joe M
Friday, December 14, 2007, at 04:26:36 (ZULU)
I was sitting around thinking about different issues if the SHTF, You can always trade for powder or worst case scavenge for powder from other rounds and you can reuse brass several times... Does anyone think that molds would be a good investment for long term? Would it be better to just stock LOTS of my preferred rounds? BWG...
And not that I need much of an excuse to add a stick to the gun room but what do you guys think about adding a .50 cal? I am thinking in terms of how prolific the rounds are, I mean you can get cases of it... its not going to be precision ammo but it will still stop an engine if need be...
I have a cousin who is on a tight budget, we were talking about the Mosin-Nagant and with the price on the 54r with both the weapon($80) and on the ammo (400 rds $99) it seems like it would be a pretty decent midrange weapon. Can anyone think of a reason to pass on this or a better weapon to go with?
RE: dog country
Joe M.
Joe S. could confirm what type but I know a guy who has what I think are a couple Rhodesian ridgebacks, they were BIG dogs, and seemed family friendly... and I think they were breed to hunt Lions. according to Wikipedia- "In the earlier parts of its history, the Rhodesian Ridgeback has also been known as Van Rooyen's Lion Dogs, the African Lion Hound or African Lion Dog."
On another subject, I was talking with a couple different people on Go Bags... Weapons and misc equipment etc. That would go in one... So I'm curious what guns you would put in your bag. Consider if you will that there are 3 types of bags. Closet, car, and Safe site... What would you put in and why would you choose it...
Anyways gents, just thought I would bring up another fun subject...
Later guys, see you on the flip side...
Morgue
Link to a Ridgeback rescue
http://www.ridgebackrescue.org/
The link on my name, is to a photobucket. I have collected some cool photos off the net and put them there. If you have try to get in and it asks for a password its mourge.
EDITED to add... Somethings in the subfolders are NSFW
Mourge
Overseas, - Friday, December 14, 2007, at 07:53:23 (ZULU)
Cool dogs.Folks had one as a rescue dog when I had just gotten my male Rott as a pup.Did the old dog assist train w/young dog.Very smart.No sense of fear at all.Good with kids.Very easy goin tempermant.Ours was 110lbs 28-30in at shoulder but have seen bigger and taller.
Not sure if this is a bad thing..... But Bunnies will AlWAYS BE fair game.
UnPat
UnPat
Wi, USA - Friday, December 14, 2007, at 10:30:51 (ZULU)
Cewl pictures of guns I can't afford.
Talk of what to have already when the SHTF.
DAMN, I LOVE THIS BAR!
Joe, there are absolutely no big cats anywhere in E Tenn or SW VA either. The Govmt says so!
I'll throw my $.02 behind the Venture 2s: I wore a pair of them for a year in baghdad, and emediatelly looked them up & ordered more when I got home. They're in the go-to-war gear now.
Mourge, the Mosin is a great rifle by all accts. The only drawback I foresee would have to do with reseption by people you meet. One of the things I consider in my SHTF planning is -here in the East- I'm almost certain to have to negotiate with locals in areas I need to transit to get to my refuge. That being accepted, I want to project the image of being just a country boy looking after the family: nonthreatening, and 'just like us'. The mosin might not fit that image. Not a deal killer, but something to consider.
Everyone, Thanks for your prayers! The Wife (She Who Must Be Obeyed) is doing much better. New meds are working, and I'll be staying in the NG till retirement. Looks like we've got another all-expense-paid coming too.
God is merciful!
SSG Mac
Friday, December 14, 2007, at 11:12:01 (ZULU)
SSG Mac: Good news on the home front..I'm glad for ya. Hopefully you will get the MOB for the 'stan this time; much fun. If it is early enough to move on your own---you might consider calling the Guard Bureau and volunteering for a PRT or ETT gig. I travelled with each, and the concept is not bad. Still, it is a crapshoot on the composition of any given team--but then, most volunteers are decent folks with superior motivation:)) And these team are seriously ad-hoc by design (many capabilities built into a PRT, for example, and security is one of them).
Joe M
Friday, December 14, 2007, at 13:38:57 (ZULU)
I used a simple process to determine what I needed. First, I waited till the wife went away to visit family for a week. I shut down the utilities, stopped going to the grocery store and only bought fuel to get to work (no gas for the gen set, etc). I will tell you, ammo was not even a thought on the priority list. I was in trouble week #1 <g>. I've since resolved those issues. Almost all my supplies are just extensions of normal groceries in extended rotation.
I have two setups for disasters...one I call the 'walk home' bag, which is basically a supplement to what I expect to have on hand should something unpleasant happen while I'm at work (43 miles from home). ON 9/11/01, transit between NYC and NJ became 'difficult'. I used this as the model of what I might face in my 'walk home'.
My other setup is a modular setup which I use for call outs...it can go from a three day setup to a worst case, two week setup...I needn't go into detail, I'm sure you could teach me a lesson or twelve on the subject.
medicjim
Friday, December 14, 2007, at 14:03:30 (ZULU)
Since the subject of Concealed Carry has come up what is your preferred concealed firearm of choice and how do you carry it?
Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Friday, December 14, 2007, at 14:20:24 (ZULU)
I also usually carry edged stuff too. Hmm. Enough said, i think...
My rationale for the P13 is that it can be concealed if you approach it with your fashion choices, and the capacity with two spare mags on your person gives you the ability to advance with fire on mutliples, if you should find yourself in such a situation (shoot til the threat is gone times 2 or 3). I suppose 9mm would be easier on the wieght, but this worked for me. I take comfort in .45cal; a psychological thing coming from the military, FMJ ammo, and the 9mm issue vs. scavenged 45s.
Joe M
Friday, December 14, 2007, at 14:43:18 (ZULU)
Got a 40lb bobcat this morning. No mountian lion, and definately not a threat, but it'll look nice mounted. Maybe that's what's had my dogs barking all night lately.
Haven't heard a dog mentioned yet that I didn't like, but that's hard to find anyway. I love all medium to large dogs. If I wanted a small dog, I'd get another rescued cat. lol. Easier to take care of when you need to go out of town for a few days. Leave food, water, and clean litter box. They do the rest. Lito's going to come out of the legal wood work and take issue with this. If you're out there lurking, hope all's well.
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Friday, December 14, 2007, at 14:55:54 (ZULU)
He'd be gorked with valium if the flight had a med bag (most do) and I could get medical control's permission...<g>
paste link or click my name
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=14044
medicjim
Friday, December 14, 2007, at 20:50:38 (ZULU)
I've been tossing this around with Bravo and Sir Wes, but wanted to expand the conversation.
What are your experiences with different brands of 30-round magazines? Have any of you 'worn out' one of these mags? Have any of you 'rebuilt' a magazine with an aftermarket spring, and why?
Also, what are your opinions and experiences with "Mag-Puls" and "Tacti-Puls" in place of the standard floorplate?
Currently, I have an 'ecclectic ensemble' of mags (USGI, C-Products, HK, Colt, and a few 'mutts' I've collected). If you were to standardize on one brand/flavor, which would it be?
Duman
Friday, December 14, 2007, at 21:13:07 (ZULU)
Bill
SSG Mac
Friday, December 14, 2007, at 22:07:46 (ZULU)
I have some USGI aluminum mags from 86 still in the rotation. These were in use for god only knows how long in the duece prior to ending up in one of my permanent mag pouches. They work as advertized every time I stick bellets in them.
If a mag gets banged around enough, it will eventually loose the crimp on the backside and "loosen up"---when the first malf occurs (you ought to catch the feedlip seperating ahead of this)---just trash it.
Mags are cheap; the HK mag is another solution in search of a problem that has deep pockets.
Ken M: Marine's mileage may vary as youz guys tend to keep things around for decades. I never worried much about the cost of replacements--and neither did the guys I've worked for--I figure the army keeps up on the maintenance since I only found a handful of bad mags in stocks over all those years. Except for the ones stamped 'cooper" that is:))
Bill: The NG also has old equipment. May not be your experience as stated either.
Also, as a commander, I had boxes of real mags, and boxes of suspect mags. The suspects went on FTXs and to rifle ranges, new ones came into the war chest (bumping older stocks to the training chests), and the ones proven bad went to the trash. I learned this from my good COs when a young EM, and the 82d SOPs. Good policy, if you can afford two sets of 7 times the UMR.
So, basically if they work now, and you take care of them---why worry until you see reason or cause to worry?
My .02...I have a motley assortment, and am happy with them all.
Joe M
Friday, December 14, 2007, at 22:35:04 (ZULU)
If the mag misfeeds with a Wolff spring in it, it goes to the trash pit, unless I can see from looking at the extracted round that it's an ammo issue.
I don't shoot competitions with an AR - it's strictly a fighting rifle, so questionable mags get ditched RFN.
I don't buy springs from anyone else. Click on my name for the link.
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Friday, December 14, 2007, at 22:55:06 (ZULU)
Nah, I’m not railing on the anti-theists, they’re not the real trouble-makers. I’m railing against the muslims that can’t stand the thought of anyone saying Christmas. Heck, they get inflated over the least little thing! For instance, I read a news article on how the Italian soccer team was getting flak because their flag has a red cross on it. The muslims found that offensive, and wanted the flag changed to something ‘less offensive’ to them.
So at this point, I’m just trying to say that in amirika today, NOBODY has the ‘right’ to not be offended. I find lots of stuff offensive, but that’s the rights of others. Had that talk with the boy the other day. We were watching the history channel and the stuff about the k-k-k-klub just happened to come on. I got to explain to him that even though I think the world would be better if those guys were relocated – like say to the bottom of the ocean – we have to defend their right to gather, protest, and speak. If we don’t, who will be there when people like us want to speak, and the rest of the world sees us as bad as we see those jerks?
On mountain lions, there are lots around here – they’re popular to hunt. Believe it or not, the most commonly used caliber is the 9mm Parabellum. Of course, around here, hunting is done with dogs so it’s really a matter of following the barking and dispatching the treed cat. Just a touch north, I saw the biggest puddy-tat (it was mounted) that I’ve ever seen. Easily came up to my beltline at its back – think the size of a big great dane. I’ve been hunting and found puddy-tat tracks too – which is a great thing in my opinion. If nothing else, it just reaffirms that even though we’re the most technologically advanced species on this rock, we’re not the top of the food chain. Those reminders are good for the soul - but bad if you've got little girls running around the area.
On the Mosin – back when I started shooting, I got whatever the flavor dejour was. When surplus 303 was cheap, I shot Enfields – remember the #1Mk3 and 1000 rounds for $100? When chicom surplus was cheap, I shot 7.62 Soviet – remember the SKS and 1000 rounds for $100? 8mm Mauser and cheap Mausers from all over – some were better than others. Same thing – a C-note got you a stick and enough ammo to figure it out ;-) The problem now is that most all surplus is gone. That I see, there’s a mild amount of 7.62X54R, and the left overs of 8mm. Pretty slim, and getting slimmer every day. The next step up obviously is the 30-06 Greek ammo, from the CMP, and a Garand to go along with it – but that’s a mighty big step.
Howdy there Mark! For CCW, I transitioned to the Glock 37 (45 GAP) a while back. It’s done the same way the G17 was, chopped and such – with the Bravo trigger job par excellance! Odds are I’ll be running a 1911 this year, but not as CCW yet. Call it a proof of concept test run. If it turns out I’ve got a for-real reliable piece now, I’ll transition to that and have a few built almost identically. Like Joe said, it’s all about how one dresses – my CCW rig is a birdhunters vest, complete with buck & slugs LOL! That’s the only thing that’s going to suck about going to the 1911 as a carry rig: the added weight.
Mourge, on the BOB, I gotta echo what Jim said. There isn’t anywhere that I could be that would be better than where I am LOL! Seriously... I live in the desert, which has some advantages. My water source is at home, ammo stacked, food stashed, and my closet looks like something you could gear a small group with. We don’t have tornadoes, and the earthquakes are so small and incredibly infrequent they’re not a consideration. Even fire isn’t that big of a concern for me, ‘cause I’ve got pretty much open fields (nothing more to burn than alfalfa) on 3 sides, and a fire house on the fourth. The only thing I can think of that would make me want to leave is some kind of toxic cloud / industrial spill. Even that would take a bunch, ‘cause I don’t live close to rail lines, etc where a spill would be likely. Possible, but not likely. The only thing I’m short on is fuel, and I mean to get that situation straightened out soon. The utilities coming into my place are internet / cable, gas, electric, and water. I’ve got 2 taken care of well, and if the internet / cable goes down I don’t much care. The other sore spot I’ve identified is coms. I’ve gotta get something better going on than cell phones – but that’s a touch lower on the list for now.
Like Jim, my real concern is getting home – although I don’t have as long of a hump as he does. And mine goes through essentially wilderness, so firearms aren’t a problem ;-) But yes, I stock my preferred rounds. The way I see it, if they’re really needed, I ought to have something I can really depend on, eh? But 50BMG is all over the place? Man, I must be looking in the wrong direction. And what’s available is high-dollar. Right now the best I know of is $0.45 once-fired 2006/2007 LC brass, $200 per K primers, and $0.35 to $0.45 air-chuck collet pulled / resized bullets. Powder is cheap-cheap, from $5 per pound on up to about $10 per pound though. It’s getting slim on the brass too – too slim for my comfort. But buying ammo is too rich for my blood, the best I’ve seen is $35 for a box of 10 rounds.
Now to the ordnance stuff (GRIN). I only have a use for 7 different types of tools: pistols, shotguns, carbines, battle rifles, spotters rifles, sniper rifles, and the anti-material rifles. Obviously some of those overlap to one degree or another, and some are purely specialty tools. For day-to-day, the pistol is “right there”. Always. A shotgun rides in the truck 100%, loaded with buck and slugs. From there, things vary. Most of the time I’ve got a battle rifle in the truck too – a ’14 typically, although a FAL or HK91 rarely. If not, then there’s a carbine. If I were in a denser area, a carbine would make sense all the time, but it’s wide open out here. If there's a problem out here I can't solve with a '14, I have yet to meet it.
Obviously the safe is stocked with all 7 types. What I need to do – and haven’t yet – is set up an area where I can duplicate everything. Not just a cache, but a for-real ‘run to’ place. As-is, I’ve kind of got that, but it’s not my place ;-)
On magazines, the only ones I've worn out are some original 20 rounders made by Colt. When we moved from the A1 to the A2, some of the better mags just happened to be distributed - 9 to me. I have no idea how many years they were in use before I got there, but they're the ones with the aluminum followers. The only thing wrong with them is that they don't lock the bolt back all the time - they need new springs. Since I quit using them though...... I've just been too cheap to re-spring something I don't use. On the pistol mags though (and I have worn those out) I'll second Lindy's statement - Wolff rocks.
But why are you guys trashing all these "bad" mags? That's just wasteful. The next fellow that has a mag that won't routinely feed - if you're going to trash it just send it to me! I'm not talking about one that won't feed at all or is coming apart (heel-stomp those), but one that isn't reliable. Those mags get spray painted so there is NO way they can get mixed up with 'good' mags, and run on the square range. Nothing like performing malf drills to make one adept at performing malf drills!
As always, FWIW, YMMV, and take it with a pinch of salt (GRIN).
Bravo
Friday, December 14, 2007, at 23:18:18 (ZULU)
I've been using mags from a company in Wisconsin called Bravo Company... Best mags of the 10 or so different makes that I have.
I've had a long and bumpy ride with my Ar platform and I'm not to trusting of it yet, but these mags seem to be the best so far. Here's a link.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/
YMMV
Hope this helps out some
Calvin
Calvin
e-burg, MD, u - Friday, December 14, 2007, at 23:51:00 (ZULU)
AR mags.....Bravo, you know I am at the opposite end of the spectrum on this one. I use anything I can get my hands on that is aluminum. I did find one mag in my collection that would not drop free......a couple spot welds on the mag body were coming loose. That mag went in the trash. I haven't cleaned OR lubed an AR magazine EVER. What's not to like? :-)
Joe....I gotta call you later. I had a massive urge earlier this week to get out this weekend and hunt some yotes, and you luck out like that. Nice! Will probably go camp out on my ex FILs north 60 tomorrow night. I think you know what I would say on the dog breed subject!
'Lito......you are in my prayers man, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Ken M.....I am working in Chicago and staying at the Midway Fairfield a couple days next week. You around?
Geoff M
WI, USA - Friday, December 14, 2007, at 23:53:25 (ZULU)
I have wolffie springies in my para and para mags. I dunno what springs para uses--but they are shit. End-to-end, they need re-sproinged. Once done, you get a helluva reliable hi-cap, easy to grip .45 that has the controls you grew up on:)) If that is indicative of wolff across the board, it wouldn't be a bad thing to use these in AR mags....once they show signs of needing it. Or, if you are certain of pending divorce and need to dispose of on hand cash before the judge does...heheh.
Joe M
Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 00:14:36 (ZULU)
http://survivalprimer.com/TF_Camping_Backpack_Survival.txt
Then this stuff.......
http://baconreport.blogspot.com/2007/07/top-100-items-to-disappear-first-during.html
http://lds.about.com/library/bl/faq/blcalculator.htm
http://standeyo.com/News_Files/menu.food.store.html
http://www.google.com/search?q=bug+out+bag+BOB
http://www.survivalblog.com/
Buy this book!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.survivalblog.com/writings.html#Patriots
Then do a google search on 'survival' 'preparedness' 'survivalist' forums. You'll have to ignore some of the way out stuff on the forums and learn the stuff that looks interesting and makes sense. I used to be a member of a couple dozen forums and groups during the good old Y2K days (damn I miss those days). Now I only go to one or two that I've stuck with for a long time.
BTW...the sub-folders were in excellent taste :^)
Mags.............
I'm a mag whore. Send me those old ones and I'll make use of them. Never met a mag I didn't like except for any steel or non-milspec mag. Use the mags with cracked feed lips for tinkering around or better yet wait and sell them to sheeple when Hillibob gets elected. Sheeple won't know the difference until it's too late. The HK and Magpul mags are answers waiting for a question. Don't like gadgets in place of the floor plates. Magpul and regular greenies are good followers.
Medicjim...........
Subject in question would have been silenced one way or another. Those dumbasses that don't know how to put on slip cuffs need to be strung up. That dude could have really broke bad, he was on sumpin. Probably the best thing would have been to shove him in the bathroom and hold the door shut. maybe he would have flushed his self. And people wonder why I don't fly..........sheeesh
CCW..........
Depends on the AO I expect to be in. Most of the time it's a baby Keltec 380, other times I shove a 12 gauge down my pants leg and hope for the best. A Smith Airweight finds itself in my pocket during mild weather and a USP in a waist thingy in cold weather.
Doughlady and dogs........
When Snipermutt died this may I swore I wouldn't go through another pet death or have to put another one down. I reckon I lied. Been finding myself looking through the german shepard and mastiff rescue sites. Will probably end up with a muttnick that likes to bark at strange things and bury teeth in leg flesh.
The Boltinator out!
The Boltinator
Just waitin on the rain to start in....., NC, - Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 00:33:29 (ZULU)
Joe M
Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 01:12:00 (ZULU)
Dynamite price on 6" digital calipers.
$8.75 plus shipping.
Got mine today, nice value. The vendor even ships to Canada!
http://www.amazon.com/6-Large-Display-Digital-Caliper/dp/B0002JFMIO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1197682910&sr=8-1
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 01:43:55 (ZULU)
Thanks for the links, i am going to enjoy the read. Glad you liked the pictures... somethings just gots to be shared :)
as to the go bags,
Since this is mostly Gun country, I wasn't going to get to much into the equipment side of things as much.I know most of you are like me and have a few more guns that you are realistically going to be able to carry out unless you load up the truck. If you don't have the time to load the truck, and its grab and go time, I am curious what guns you would turn to if you had to leave your home base. The 1 bag is the one you would carry if your car was down or unavailable... The car bag is obviously if the car is around and running.... As to having a place to go that isn't at the house. Seems like it wouldn't be a bad thing to have if you live in the middle of an urban environment. I am talking about if you live somewhere that you aren't going to be able to get much food from the local environment. If that is the case and you had a place that was in a more rural area that you could go to... what would you keep there if case you had to roll out do to issues...
With the amount of ammo out there for the 50 cal its seems like it wouldn't be a bad idea to have an Upper that converts to 50 sitting in a corner or on a shelf...
Mourge
Mourge
Overseas, - Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 02:08:13 (ZULU)
"Go to the Woods" rifle would be the XCR... its lighter and the ammo is lighter (original concept of the 5.56, remember?)... along with the HighStandard with the 2XNikon and 12" Volquartsen Barrel... would be better if both were supressed. Easily enough done with the XCR and the 22 pistol. If you're "livin off the land" other folks not knowing where you're "livin" is a good thing...and remember that "resupply" ain't in that case, so you're stuck with what you have and can scrounge off "sources" (and 5.56 will likely be available off the "sources").
Beyond that, like others have said... water, food, fuel, meds, shelter... sort'a like the 3 "B's".. Beans, Bullets, Bandaids? Amounts and sources will depend if on foot, on 2-wheels, or a 1-ton Diesel w/4-horse trailer, or in one's own domain, and where one's "domain" is climatically located... winters w/o power source/heat around here will be deadly, but one can survive summers in the desert more easily methinks...water,water,water, but don't need heat to survive. Not that heat isn't readily available around here (dead trees), but heat that way=smoke=others "knowing where you are".
I'm sure this would be a treatise itself, and others have done better "treatie" than I.
Back to the FFP.
Oh well, something to ponder
SteveinButte
Butte, MT, USofA - Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 03:58:50 (ZULU)
UnPat
UnPat
Wi, USA - Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 05:04:20 (ZULU)
MedicJim,
Fuck it, shoot him! He wants to die, he wants off the plane, well, LET HIM OFF THE PLANE! No need to land, even.
As for that Mika whatsername on the "Morning Joe" program, here's the link to comment on what a stupid bitch she is. Feel free to post often! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/ It's at the bottom of the page.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 05:20:16 (ZULU)
I am not sure how easily it could be applied from behind a seat but the wrestlers "sleeper hold" comes to mind.Works as quick as an injection.And without further panic if the vic were to see a syringe.As worked up as he is it would take about 4x the normal dose to calm him.Once out a shot of valium might work better too(?)
Is this flight panic/claustaphobia or a drug reaction/withdrawal?
UnPat
UnPat
Wi, USA - Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 06:40:37 (ZULU)
As others have noted they depend on your circumstances. Mine recently changed from a country setting very good for sitting it out, to a more urban setting that might very well require evacuation. Therefore my planning has changed.
It seems to me that -on the eastern seaboard- the thing that'll mean evac are larger & longer shortage/attack/civic breakdown issues. Most anything else can be ridden out holed-up at home, if you plan ahead.
So, where to go & how to get there? Where depends almost entirely on your personal skill-set, and relationships with others outside the trouble zone, so it's not easy to make universal rules. How to get there certainly means car/truck, and what's best depends on the likely problems you'll face getting from A to B. In my case it's a pretty short trip to where I can wait out that in-between situation that forces evac, but isn't a total breakdown of society.
(In the latter case so many things change -perminently- that prior planning/stockpiling becomes a very serious investment, and a lifestyle choice. Like some others here, my life has gone a different path, and I've had to go where the work is. I'd dearly love to have my mountian retreat, self-sufficient for utilities, and food stockpiled, but it just hasn't been in the cards.)
So I'm back to getting from A to B with the family, so I can wait IT out. The area I'll have to transit is all country, somewhat distrustful of the nearby urban areas (with reason). When I need to transit the area they'll be even LESS happy to see visitors. So my plans involve presenting myself as country as possible, with as little gear visible as possible. I plan to carry only what I need to get there. An old beat-up blazer seems to be the ticket. An old truck fits the personna better, but offers fewer opportunities for conceilment of essencials.
Of course I'll be armed, but the only thing showing'll be the old shotgun. The idea is: "I'm just like you & just headed Home" while able to engage if required. For me that means the Savage is bagged-up & hidden. The shotgun is out in the open where it'll look (hopefully) pathetically non-threatening (it's a long-barreled bird gun in the rack breach open), and my 1911 out of sight, in-battery, & within emmediate reach. Caliber resupply? Anyone here think there's gonna be a massive shortage of 45ACP, 308WIN, or 12ga? Besides, if I've used up what I already have things have well & truly GTH.
SSG Mac
Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 12:09:03 (ZULU)
#1 - There are no guns on planes and depressurizing them to toss someone off is contra-indicated...I think either approach would end with a murder charge upon landing.
#2 - The guy is non-violent during the period that intervention is 'planned'
#3 -Physical mechanisms for making someone unconscious are all dangerous...it's a pretty substantial risk of death.
There really are no good options that I can see, which is why I ask.
medicjim
Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 14:37:34 (ZULU)
Thanks for everyone's advise and donations on the Scenars and Varget. Only problem now is finding the right load. All the sudden the rifle that wouldn't shoot light bullets puts Scenars of everyload in .83 at 150. Litterally, shot 24 rnds of 6 different load weights into a .83 group when the targets were laid on top of each other. That's the farthest I can test here at the house. I tried the ladder test 1st to get an idea of where to start and get a max load. Then went to the OCW test to fine tune it. Came up with 44.4 Varget, CCI BR-2 primers, OAL is 2.855. Using Lee collet dies to neck size. I'm .035 off the lands but I decided not to mess with the magazine. I'm gonna have to take 6 loads again, and retry the OCW test at 300 to make sure. At 150 everything's too close together to call for absolute sure, but 44.4 was the pause in the miniscule movement, and was .68 for four shots. It was however not the smallest, so I want to make sure it's not opening up too much over distance. Anyone got an ideas to add hit me up.
Mags I still like the HK. They cost more but I haven't had a single misfeed or malf from the 4 I have. Elsewise wolf springs and green folowers in USGI. Just keep your lips bent right. I have no problems with steel, the lips don't open up, but, mine aren't in harsh, moist, or salty environments either. I've got a large collection of mutts that stay loaded with 20 rnds in 30 rnd mags for spring sake, but the HK's are the ones I trust my life to. No experience with mag-puls here so I can't comment on them. Para's, I've owned dozens of as race guns. During the ban, I could order mag bodys form one source and followers, springs, and extended bases from another, and have 21rnd mags for my P16's. To hide one go with inside the waisteband Uncle Mikes with your shirt untucked carried up front. It's pointed at important male body parts, but I hide my Kimber there wearing shorts and a tee. The Keltec32/380 with a pocket clip works great in the front pocket and looks like a knife clip, or in a ankle band as a backup. I keep a Benchmade or Microtech auto next to my wallet in the back pocket. If someone asks for the wallet, they're getting the knife!!!
This information is all based on my personal opinion and experience, so don't take it for absolute correctness, or perfection. If that was the case, you'd be reading it in a book, or magazine, and not here. LOL
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 15:59:12 (ZULU)
Jeff Cooper
Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 16:12:16 (ZULU)
Perhaps a short session of carotid massage? I see no real method to take care of this situation without messing the guy up unless he is completely restrained. He's already souped up, talk don't hurt but if he got loose he could do damage. Putting him in the bathroom and shutting the door would keep him from hurting folks. I wouldn't be sitting there trying to hold his ass down, he could bite the hell out of you and don't know what bioshit he may be carrying.
FN 5.7's..........
Anyone messed with these things? Ammo is on the high side but it looks interesting.
Bolt out!
Bolt
Still waiting on rain......, NC, - Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 18:04:07 (ZULU)
If I didn't have cord or tape, I'm thinking I could round up some ties, belts, etc. quickly and do the same thing. I'm with Bolt, who knows what's floating around in that idiots system, which you'd have in you if he goes to biting.
I'm also thinking this situation could qualify as "I was in fear for mine, and everyone's life, and did what I had to do to stop him from potentially making the plane crash"
If I didn't have my cord, tape, belts, ties, whatever, I promise I'd be really close and if he broke loose from the two dudes, I'd do whatever had to be done to stop him.
Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America - Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 19:24:30 (ZULU)
Local PD issues the carbine in 5.7 as a trunk gun in patrol units. Not a bad choice for folks who have minimal long-gun training. No recoil issues, so even smaller-stature personel don't find it daunting.
Reports I've heard is that it is more anemic than .223 Rem, although of course no-one like to get shot.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 20:23:42 (ZULU)
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 20:43:26 (ZULU)
I wouldnt count on the old magneto fired equipment to run in the event of a EMP.Magnetos still have magnets in them,the EMP would kill the polarization of the magnets.
UnPat
UnPat
Wi, USA - Saturday, December 15, 2007, at 21:36:44 (ZULU)
http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm
http://www.survivalblog.com/2006/09/letter_re_expedient_faraday_ca_1.html
http://www.amphenol-aerospace.com/index.asp?page=products_filter.html
Thomas Edison Bolt out!
Bolt
Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 01:16:07 (ZULU)
Once you are out of town, a little bolt rifle draws no attention.
Moving to the wilderness rifle: Tiny .22. Anshutz used to sell a boy's rifle called the "Woodchucker". The Achiever trigger fits the action. I put a rail on the barrel and installed a scout scope.
It comes apart in under a minute and fits in a pack.
The above opinions are worth what you paid for them.
CDC'
Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 02:39:36 (ZULU)
You get the best you can afford before, and when it happens, go with what you got.
SSG Mac
Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 03:12:18 (ZULU)
Bolt, I picked up the PS90 a while back, and I love it, I've shot it out to 30 m or so and its on... I love the fact that it takes 50 rd magazines which means I get to carry fewer mags and more ammo... As to the ammo, Midway has a deal for 2000 rds for 750 dollars give or take a little. I made an order just for the simple fact that the ammo is scarce and that should last me quit a while.
The one thing I don't really like about the PS90 is the height difference between the barrel and the Optics, makes for instinctive shots up close, which isn't bad on a large target, but when you are looking at a rabbit at a few feet it can be a pain in the A#$... I just have to put a few more rounds through it to get used to the optics. BWG... never really need a reason to hit the range and shoot but its more fun to have a goal.
For a CQC gun... I like it... Hicap mags, compact package, fully ambi controls, breaks down to 3 major components... and the ballistics from what I have heard are very similar to the 223 at close range. Its also very easy to control and very simple to understand. these things Make for a great gun for someone to begin on. IMHO
RE: BOB and Go bag, SHTF
I currently don't live somewhere that I would do this but In the not to distant future I will be moving to an area when I will seriously look into it.
I am thinking about picking up some acres a ways outside of town, looking at probably 20 mins or so the way I drive... BWG... which is a touch fast. Anyways I would probably come up with a secure way to store everything I need there in such a way that if someone were to beat me there, they wouldn't have easy access to my stores.
Hence why I was curious about the types of BOBS. Hump out BOB, drive out BOB, and Safe site BOB. There are some situations where I would possibly stop at the Safe site reload and keep going. But this is situationally Dependant and would only be considered in an EXTREME situation where contamination of some kind is an issue. With a decent size collection its unlikely I will be able to pack everything into the car for the ride. Food ammo water the safe site BOB etc. not to mention people... it would get cramped fast.
Mourge
Overseas, - Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 03:31:26 (ZULU)
CDC - thanks for bringing that up!
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 03:39:35 (ZULU)
Aircraft appears to be a widebody, so the individual should have been properly restrained [QuickCuffs properly applied and behind the back, belted into the seat for the duration.] and isolated in a middle seat section with no access to baggage, personal belongings etc. If the aircrew doesn't have any hefty members capable of keeping the EDP seated, I'm sure some passengers wouldn't mind making sure he was properly secured and stayed that way.
Gotta give credit to the passengers low key handling of the problem. Don't think I'd have looked quite so accommodating. I do believe that if I had to fly overseas, I'd fly El Al or I wouldn't fly.
JoeM- gotta deliver belated thanks for your tales of the wonders of Wisconsin. Opportunities were available, but the downsides of the area offset the possible advantages....at least at the locality involved.
WR Moore
Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 04:08:46 (ZULU)
I know a few depts in FL issue the P90 as a patrol rifle, as well as to their entry guys. They are/were not impressed after several uses on dogs and people. IME/IMO,5.56 with it's best ammunition (ie 73/75/77/80 gn OTM) is a good bottom baseline acceptable level of performance from a carbine/rifle, I personally would consider nothing of less power for anything other than specialized roles. You can do as you like, but I have yet to have any issues with killing someone too much. Now obviously you're not gonna need a 460 Wby with 510gn SP's to defend the house, but I doubt a 230gn Gold Dot at 4000fps would disappoint with it's performance:) Gonna be kinda loud though.
Asshole on plane:
Carotid chokes are easily applied by someone who knows what they're doing, which ain't very many people, sad to say. I haven't killed anyone using one yet, albeit we only train with them against other physically fit men. I worry more about catching an elbow, forehead or fist in the nose/mouth/other soft tissue when sparring.
You can use your shoelaces to make a decent set of "Ranger cuffs", boot laces work better, 550 better still. They're gonna be kinda painful for Mr Dipshit after a few minutes, if anyone cares. Belts would be good for restraining him to a seat, as well as binding his arms and legs to the arm rests and seat bases.
Bail out kit: I keep my Eagle drag bag full of 'stuff'(M40A1 PIP+60rds/SAM-R+100rds/Kimber+40rds), my Kifaru Zulu packed (change of clothes, cold weather gear, 6pr socks, extra boots, sleeping bag, thermarest, misc stuff), my LBE(basic load+, lots of misc stuff) and it sits on the bedroom floor next to the #3 gun case. The car has plenty of cold weather stuff in it, and I "would" carry my Kahr PM9 if such evil things were allowed here in the People's Republic. Perish the thought of breaking the law. Backup micro guns like PM9 is realy the best niche for the 9mm IMO, smallest pistol caliber I own, aside from 22LR and if you consider 38SPC smaller than 9mm Para.
EMP is essentially a giant static electrical load. As such, it requires easily damaged things like solid state electronics. Vac tubes, batteries, magnets, motor armatures, light filaments, etc are not effected significantly. So all the computers are toast, your fuel injected cars are done, as might be newer diesels, etc etc. Late 50's, early 60's Hawaii was disrupted for several hours by high altitude bursts during the days of atmospheric testing, jihadists don't have the capability. From ground/near surface bursts, if you're close enough to worry about EMP, you really have more pressing issues, like fires from thermal effects, your house being knocked down from overpressure, etc etc.
I like GI mags, they work fine. If I didn't have hundreds of them lying about, I'd buy P-mags from Magpul and run those exclusively.
Hey Bravo, how's that HK mag holding up? S/F.....Ken M
Ken M
IL, USA - Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 07:46:48 (ZULU)
My roster mail link is fubared, that email is no longer in effect. New mail is geoffmccormick and charter dot net if you get my drift.
On .223 ammo - I don't think you can beat M193 type stuff. M855 seems to me to be a solution that gained a little at the expense of a lot.....the military got improved barrier penetration at the expense of the yaw/upset terminal ballistics. At least that's how I understand it. For ranges of 0 to 200 yards or so (your most probable engagement in a domestic defense scenario IMO) the heavy stuff doesn't seem to be able to justify the extra cost to my feeble mind. Again, IMO. So, I just shoot M193 type 55 grain ball, and lots of it when I can afford it. I can shoot a lot more of it than the heavy stuff for the fixed amount of money available. I will load some heavy stuff for my DMR type build at some point, but that will be mainly to investigate the accuracy potential of the rifle and the personal satisfaction that brings more than anything. YMMV and all that.
Geoff M
WI, USA - Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 09:33:20 (ZULU)
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/future-weapons/games/cannon/cannon.html
Gary Kaney
NW, ILL, - Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 12:15:25 (ZULU)
Damn you, Gary! My wife walked in here a coupla hours ago, and I notice it was daylight THEN.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 15:03:41 (ZULU)
I'm currently running a Savage 110 for F-class matches. It is presently equipped with a Leupold One-Piece Mount Base and Burris Pos-align rings with the "20" inserts front and rear to get the proper elevation bias with the Leupold 12X optic I'm using.
I'm not normally removing the optic.
Is there a durability or any other big advantage to upgrading with (say) the Ken Farrell 20ma steel (Weaver) base with corresponding rings?
http://www.kenfarrell.com/SAV-L-1-20.html
http://www.kenfarrell.com/0010IN-STD.html
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 15:16:11 (ZULU)
If your mount is solid, I wouldn't mess with it. I do have a preference for 1-piece bases (something mild like 308 doesn't need them, it just makes me feel better), but the big thing is no movement. A lot of shooting success is confidence in your rig. If you'd feel more confident having a beefier base, then don't let yourself be talked out of it.
I have a Ferrel base on my rifle, another Savage 10FP (have had on a couple) and have never worried one second about it moving. I bed mine. Strange: people will pay for high-dollar scopes able to 'take the recoil', but they don't give a moment's thought to the tiny-assed screws used to hold it on the rifle: bad machine design that.
Maybe bed the base you've got, and go away happy. Your call: only you can say what'll give you confidence in the set-up.
FWIW, I bed my actions and bases with AL filled epoxy, using shoe polish as a release agent. Cheap, easy as pie, and hell: I've got all this KIWI I don't need any more.
SSG Mac
Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 16:52:55 (ZULU)
I haven't seen any cause to be disappointed with the current base setup, but then it hasn't had any hard knocks so far. I don't plan to abuse it, but feces occurs :-( .308 Win is the chambering.
The current Leupold base only uses 1 of the two rear screw holes, which seems to be a rather hopeful design (to be kind).
I would like to pick a vendor that has a 20MOA "production" Savage 110 offering, which would seem to eliminate Near Mfgr in Canada (too bad).
Any opinions on Farrell versus Seekins offerings for the Savage 110?
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 17:47:59 (ZULU)
I have no business even commenting, but from a regular guy point of view, I will. I don`t have the training and experience most of you here have. I have seen United 93 and even before 911, I can safely say, this dude would have to shut the pie hole. I too think he`s on something and the biting thing weights heavily on my mind. He was obviously enciting himself and appears to be escalating towards getting up and moving. I`m not sure what I would have done, but he ain`t getting out of that seat conscious if I`m on that plane. When I saw the wire tie come off, I lost all confidence in the passengers who were attending him. In fact, they may have needed someone to keep me off of him at that point, I was getting all puckered just watching the video. I`m thinking groin if he`s up, solar plex, sternal notch, adams apple, eyeballs, whatever it takes to make him settle down. Belt comes off pretty quickly and that buckle can be effective when swung with authority.
I`m no bad ass, but my whole life I`ve used this philosophy, " I ain`t saying I can kick your ass...I AM saying we`re about to find out". I don`t launch often, but I launch big as I can, FWIW.
Steven S. Racer
PA, - Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 18:20:06 (ZULU)
Bill
SSG Mac
Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 22:04:48 (ZULU)
Badger doesn't appear to make a rail for the model 110 long action (pre-Accutrigger) :-(
http://www.badgerord.com/productgroup.php?id=rails
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 22:26:44 (ZULU)
SSG Mac
Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 23:35:53 (ZULU)
Went to the Leupold QRW 2 piece base and kept the Burress Signature rings and everything became copesetic. Much better cheek/jaw weld too.
BTW Rod, the Loopy standard base isn't too bad on the stability standard. It's not a milspec mount but it can take some additional stress. I had my .308 barreled action do a 1 1/2 gainer off the bench into a bucket full of brass, landing on the scope. POI didn't change. Now if the impact had been sideways on the objective........
Leupold does have standard mounts with either 15 or 20 MOA of angle built in. They also have the Mark IV mounts that use all the screw holes, dunno if they're available for Savage.
WR Moore
Sunday, December 16, 2007, at 23:51:37 (ZULU)
Ok, I *could* change over to (say) Leupold 2-piece QRW bases (49833) and Burris 1" SIGNATURE ZEE RING medium matte (420521). The ZEE rings use the Pos-align inserts which would also permit creating the 20MOA elevation offset.
http://www.gobles.ca/LEUPOLD/Leup0706QRWPRW.html
http://www.gobles.ca/BURRIS/Burris%200407.html
Would that be a significant improvement over a Leupold One-Piece Mount Base (49996) and Burris 1" SIGNATURE RINGs (UNIVERSAL DOVETAIL) medium matte (420501)?
The primary advantages I can see are:
- Uses all of the receiver mounting holes
- Removable with a prospect of return to zero if necessary.
- Slightly better loading port access.
Disadvantage:
- Possible mounting/eye relief issues because receiver-referenced mounting points are different between the one-piece and two-piece bases. My educated guess is that I would have to move the optic rearward about 0.5 inches because of the revised mounting point. The Leupold 12X I use has good eye relief, but it seems to be fine where it is.
It's not clear that there would a significant enhancement in ruggedness overall.
Thoughts?
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, December 17, 2007, at 00:50:42 (ZULU)
WR Moore
Monday, December 17, 2007, at 01:35:36 (ZULU)
And, someone please confirm these are the mags most used with the Badger Ord. bottom metal for REM700s.
Finally, do any of you have alternative mags you like for the purpose? $70/per is pretty steep!
I’m mulling over a new project, and would appreciate input. Thanks.
SSG Mac
Monday, December 17, 2007, at 12:28:05 (ZULU)
Of course WR has a point too. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Can someone point me to some instructions on bedding bases, I've never heard of it, and am curious. I've got two rifles that I'll be bedding this summer and while they're down, might as well bed the bases when I'm changing scopes on the .308. The other is a hard recoiling 300RUM and although I've seen no problems with it yet doesn't mean there won't be any. "preventative maintaince"
This is soley my opinion derrived from experiences stemming from following others opinions and advise.
Merry Christmas, and rember to think about the first 6 letters. To those of you who believe in the old testament, Happy Hanukkah. I believe in the first greeting, but am not offended by the second or any other. I am offended by offensive people offending me due to their being offended.
Jeff C
Gadsden, TN, - Monday, December 17, 2007, at 15:12:45 (ZULU)
http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=18
Sarge
Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, December 17, 2007, at 15:39:44 (ZULU)
Good input, keeping a low profile.
Lindy,
Thanks for the "Rifle 10" link.
Training: have any of you taken the "Pistol 250" course at Gunsite? I'm planning out 2008, and I'm thinking of scheduling another training class. I'm interested in your comments on the "Gunsite 250" pistol course.
Duman
Monday, December 17, 2007, at 18:18:06 (ZULU)
And if I came across as somehow hating aluminum mags, that’s not my official position. Right now, probably my most trusted mags (as in ‘a full load out of mags I know are good’) are the ones I rescued from the factory a few blocks away from my old condo – Parsons Precision Products. The only thing I’ve done to them has been upgrading the old black followers to the MagPul anti-tilt followers. Why did I do that? Because I bought the followers for another project that didn’t work out, and I hate wasting money LOL!
Which brings me to the next point! Ken, that HK mag has been 100% since I got it – I haven’t been able to make it fail to date. I’m going to go ahead and take it up on the mountain for some good pseudo-arctic testing (-20 to –40 hopefully) in a month or thereabouts, and with a bottle of CLP and water to gunk it up with. We’ll see. It’s been so good that I honestly have problems deciding STILL. When you sent it out, I thought “great, now I’ll be able to objectively eliminate this one from consideration” – but it’s not so as of yet. I figure my mag cash stash isn’t going anywhere, so there’s no real pressure for me to buy RIGHT NOW. The thing is, the CProducts mag hasn’t failed either, at half the price. For that matter, my Singapore SAR-80 mags have been 100% except for once, and I sincerely question if I didn’t spank the mag on that one occasion – although the gravel was rattling around in that one so it’s a “possible”. Ditto that for my good GI mags – they’ve been 100% too. If the HK mags were still $25, I’d probably opt for them over the $18 CProducts mags – but that’s not the case, and $35 is a long ways from $18. Even so, the HK mag seems good enough to have me questioning if I couldn’t lighten my load-outs to 9 mags each instead of 13, and cough up a touch more dough… after all, 9 mags ought to be enough all at once for anything in this country I hope.
Interestingly, according to my dial calipers, the HK mag is made from thirty-thou steel - 50% thicker than the CProducts stainless steel (20 thou). It just so happens that thirty-thou is the same thickness as an M14 mag, and my extensive experience with them says that a fellow would have to work pretty hard to mangle the mag into inoperability. Heck, I’ve got an M14 mag that has been rusted in repeated cycles, trying to get it to fail – and it hasn’t yet. It’s way ugly, but all I do is scrub the rust off of it with a bronze brush or stainless brush (where it’s pitted the heaviest) and drive on. IMO rust isn’t really the biggest issue I need to deal with – my steel mags get a very occasional (as in a full-take down every couple of years or so) swab out with CLP, and I’ve only found the beginnings of rust after submersion or being out in the wet and not cared for afterwards. Maybe this is a function of me being in the desert though.
The one ‘double edged sword’ on the HK mag (in my opinion) is the baseplate and retainer. It’s good in the fact that I can’t get gravel / sand / mud through the disassembly hole (‘cause the HK doesn’t have one!) like with the GI / CProducts mags, but then again I wonder how long that rubbery plug thing will last. To throw more “this is moot” on the situation, since I took the advice of an agent with a Colt Commando who runs the Arizona / Mexico border searching for badguys... he related a ‘near miss’ he’d had, and now I run my magpuls turned 90 degrees with the loop front to back instead of side to side. Since that change, gravel doesn’t get in the mags with disassembly holes nearly as much.
You said that without the plug, the mag would dump its guts when in serious recoil – but for those of us without serious recoil capabilities, would the lack of plug make a difference? Like let’s say that I got some with the rubber plug, but that it degraded / came out / whatever. Would it make a difference or puke its guts in a stick fired in only semi and nothing measured in mm?
And what is this about the Pmags? I’ve seen those polymer mags (haven’t bought one to try), but thought they were training mags – not for serious efforts. Was I mistaken? Consider this a formal request for enlightenment ;-)
I guess where I stand on the matter is simply that a mag is nothing more than an ammo delivery device. The only ones I’ve ever worn out were my old Colt 20 rounders, although some of the old 30 rounders have been heel-stomped. Who knows how many miles and thousands of rounds went through those though. I don’t feel like GI mags are “bad” or “inferior”. Compare it to a fleet of trucks though – I see it as a question of long-term dependability. I’ll trust a Mercedes to operate longer and harder than something without registration or inspections out of Mexico (call those the USA brand or thermelt mags) but when comparing “upper tier” mags I really haven’t found a difference yet. I suppose I need to dump more sand and mud in the equation, and see what shakes out LOL! Even so, for long-term durability, I just trust steel more than I do aluminum. By long term I’m thinking 100 years (GRIN) – the mags I buy now might be the only ones my great-grandson calls his inheritance when he really needs them.
But my point with the ‘bad mags’ wasn’t about repairing them, it was about using them ‘as is’, as sometimes failures are desirable! Like when I’m on the square range, I appreciate having a spray-painted mag that will randomly throw a malf my way. You know, when running Glocks and XCRs, a fellow just doesn’t get a chance to practice a malf drill unless it’s purposefully induced….
Mourge, that makes a bit better question. If I had to bug out today, I’d be carrying a M14 and the Glock. No question. I highly doubt there would be much more to that, but if possible, I’d push the boy slightly to carry his 22LR and myself to stick the 870 riotgun on top of the ruck. Rabbits and birds on a spit are better than nothing HA! As far as the pack goes, I’m working on improving mine – it’s been a ‘work in progress’ for quite some time.
But what is it here that I see from Steve in Butte? Praise for the XCR? And here I thought I was the only one that was “in” on that secret. Interestingly, I took the opportunity to compare the South Korean Daewoo with the XCR. I wouldn’t trade an XCR for a Daewoo, and that’s a fact. I’ve been in with the XCR before ground level, and have a tremendous appreciation for it. The only gripe worth voicing is that I think she’s a touch heavy – the same weight as an M4. The upcoming release of the XCR-M in 7.62 NATO may very well find me transitioning from my ’14 – and that is a significant statement! If you’re interested in some mods to make it a bit more user friendly, let me know – I’ve found some problem points that needed to be sorted out. And I did sort them out.
My point about the 7.62 NATO as a grab-and-go stick versus the 5.56 isn’t that one has a longer effective range than the other (although that part is true too) – it’s that the 7.62 NATO has more energy at all ranges. Is that necessary for punching badguys? Well, I suppose that depends on what they’re behind, what I’ve got to shoot through, or what needs to be destroyed. Not that it can’t be done with the 5.56, but I’ve never felt that I had “too much rifle”. I’d much rather trust a shot on deer or elk to a Hornady SST in 30 caliber than anything in 22 caliber – and a grab-and-go stick should be multi-role, eh?
CDC, my last trip out to The Ranch had us doing snaps at the head in that time, hammer pairs on the body within 2 seconds (same range). I couldn’t routinely – on demand – put both rounds of the hammer pair in the k-zone at 25, but both were what we’d consider lethal hits. I believe this was more due to fatigue than capability, but that’s part of “on demand”, eh? When the range was decreased to 20 yards, I could keep ‘em in the k-zone routinely, so I call that my hammer pair effective distance.
Random thoughts on EMP: it seems that anything with the old points / condenser / carburetion / distributors would be running just fine. Or one of the diesels from before electronics time – not that I know anything. However, I did once have the voltage regulator in the alternator go TU on me. That one faulty diode fried the battery quickly – it pumped AC current into a DC battery. So, a diode, being solid-state circuitry, wouldn’t the alternator be the ‘weak link’ in an otherwise EMP proof vehicle? Makes one wonder about a Faraday cage in the garage LOL!
Steve, if you want to put off 250 for a year or possibly two, let me know. My guess is that Bub will be old enough to run a 1911 by then (might have to get him one in 9mm though), and that's gonna be his first "for real" course. Won't be his first photo under the Raven arch, or his first course, but his first one that's longer than a weekend. As a minor, that means I'm required to do it with him (which isn't a bad thing by a long measure - actually I prefer it that way - I need a refresher LOL!). Makes me wonder who will be teaching then.... there's very few instructors that I know there any more. On the good side, I got just the place for you to stay.
Bravo
Monday, December 17, 2007, at 18:39:29 (ZULU)
Mike/Undude
Mike Miller
Ca, - Monday, December 17, 2007, at 18:57:10 (ZULU)
medicjim
Monday, December 17, 2007, at 19:29:41 (ZULU)
"You know, when running Glocks and XCRs, a fellow just doesn’t get a chance to practice a malf drill unless it’s purposefully induced…."
I think I'm gonna puke...
Duman
Monday, December 17, 2007, at 20:02:05 (ZULU)
Would you like a thirty round Orlite 5.56 magazine to torture? I bought three of them years back for really cheap. They even have dust covers. Two of them worked just fine in my M4 clone and the other one wouldn't lock in place.
Cheers,
Doc
Doc Holloway
The snow covered Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Monday, December 17, 2007, at 20:49:27 (ZULU)
I can't decide what kind of malf this would be; extraction usually goes out the other end...but it sounds like a type of FTE; can't very well puke if you have a FTF, eh?
My advice: Take two glocks followed by an XCR and call me in the morning (for shipping instructions to my FFL:))
On the subject of mags, I got a hold of one of those 100 rd double drum mags overseas. I loaded it up and tried it out--it seemed to work OK from end to end. BUT: Jeez, the thing is a boat anchor even without ammo--loaded, it becomes a ship anchor. I dragged it around though---it stayed on the truck. I figure it would give me something to do while waiting on St Peter if things got real bad...The follower is this chain-like set of metal slugs (customs asshats think this is live ammo when they look at it). That, and it comes liberally powdered with graphite from the package! Heheh--no point in any of this--just figured I'd dump an observation on a 100-round capability. Now, other than a seriously mad minute---anyone have any idea why this would be useful? Kewl factor doesn't count--I already thought of that myself when I grabbed it outta the trash in the first place!
Joe M
Monday, December 17, 2007, at 23:55:42 (ZULU)
If you actually need to hit particular threat targets, they're not so hot.
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 00:14:28 (ZULU)
medicjim
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 00:26:31 (ZULU)
I've seen seating issues with Orlites many moons ago which such things were legal for civilians in Canada.
I've read that Orlites and Bushmaster lowers can be a problematic combo. Your issue?
http://www.snipercountry.com/roster/AllArchives/duty082002.htm
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 00:50:36 (ZULU)
SHTF Country: For anyone interested in emergency water storage, check out the aqua pod kit. It is a plastic one time use bath tub liner bladder with a pump to withdraw water. Sanitary, holds 65 gallons and goes for right around 40 bucks. I don't know when they first came on the market, but they have gotten a little publicity post Katrina.
There are certain area of the country (the Gulf Coast comes to mind) that if resided there, I wouldn't be without one. FWIW.
Pat II
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 01:36:25 (ZULU)
Pat II
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 01:39:40 (ZULU)
If you actually need to hit particular threat targets, they're not so hot.
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 00:14:28 (ZULU)"
Damm man they have some fine men doing a hard assed job. Dont you think you where a bit over the top with the statement?
Guys I know use Beta C Mags when a SAW are not available for rear security in vehicle opps. I worked with a few and found them to be a Poor mans M4 SAW. Not great but better feeling in rear seat than just a 30 round M4 mag, knowing have the damm rounds will stick in bad guys dash board anyway.
Mike/Undude
MikeMiller
Ca, - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 01:48:47 (ZULU)
We have had a German Shepherd for years. If I have my way, we will always have one.
Pat II
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 02:32:48 (ZULU)
Some of them are former Tier-1 special operations operators.
However, there are also some people over there I wouldn't trust with my back in a pillow fight, and who were in way over their heads in their former jobs of working security in shopping malls.
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 02:48:05 (ZULU)
The other side of the topic is the contractors themselves. They often get vague rumors of support, a mission statement based on perceptions of the entire army combined arms and combat support structure...lemme explain: The guys often writing the Statement of Work (SOW) think like army officers; so when they assign a task to a line company--they assume away artillery, fuel tanks, CAS, and all the other "organic" multipliers. They forget that by buying a capability--nothing else comes with it in support like they are used to. So, they mentally imagine 120 contractors being just as capable as a rifle company--and assign tasks along those lines while not allowing the extra money for support (that is not there for them). FWIW, I saw contractors doing some dangerous stuff with too few players, cause they had to. We made a special effort to marry up our movements with theirs to help this out. As it turns out, the guv'mint will often buy the offensive capability, and the defensive stuff and the logistical stuff is "out of hide" for these guys. So, it was not uncommon for a very good friend of mine to drive across Baghdad to get a newbie at the airport--alone. And yeah, I know that contract language often says "to be provided by the government" for things like FOB space, accomodations, fuel, food etc; I also saw 1Star pricks balking at every thing mentioned despite the written language. These guys are often working far from the contracting office that wrote the langauge...
Then, to make this all even more fun for the contractors--there is a jealousy in play too. It manifests in many ugly ways--but in general, you call it a good outcome if the military only tells you to piss up a rope with this or that support. Imagine that--a retired Master Sergeant--an American---gets told to fuck off for asking for some freakin' bottled water...trust me on this--it is worse than you imagine it. Not all, but the larger the base with the bigger the brass on board--the worse it is. SF units and smaller FOBs do better with interactions--but the vast bulk is what it is.
Now the Iraqi Government Ministry that has a boner for BW: These shitbags are Mahdi sympathizers..and i am being kind as hell here. They would start the engagement themselves; and the truth is whatever the BW guys says it is IMHO. That will be closer to actual events than any other politically spun crap that comes out in the coming months. The Iraqis are closer to Sadr than they are to us or the notion of a unified country--that is the goshdarn shame of the truth. BW, Triple Canopy and the host of others are effective, and have been especially so against Mahdi elements over the last year. That is a pisser for these corrupt shitbags. And, their manhood takes a ding when they need this kind of help to even go have a meal on the town. No love is lost.
I've escalated the force, and issued clear orders on how this is to be done--all in the name of keeping headway and preventing an overtake by a bomber. I was hardly alone in that tactic. Sometimes, this happens fast. When taking fire---trust me that collaterals are a secondary consideration on my runs. I was NOT transporting anyone more important than me, either. BW was moving State weenies. That is a bit different---we liked to hang out with the BGs and maybe mix it up in the hopes of issuing them dirtnaps--while the BW guys have to GTFOD right now, while preventing any harm coming to the egg(heads) in their basket. Totally different way of doing things--and far less room for error on their parts. Heheh..after all, a combat patrol is supposed to step in the shit.
Knowing what I know about how you should react while moving thru Baghdad, I cannot fault the BW security team. And i have no doubt that the Minsitry is lying its ass off to make Sadr happy.
The perfect solution: Pay more to our soldiers across the board, build back up to 3/4million, and add 50% more SpecOps (you can't add more without vastly increasing the pool of rejects, unless you just rubber stamp them "specops" with lowered standards--which is what John Kerry suggested without even knowing it cuz he's an idiot)
Since we can't afford a great big fat army standing around---contracting is the default. We just need to have a coherent policy for employing them, while integrating better with training for the uniformed dudes.
Joe M
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 04:40:11 (ZULU)
Sarge - you're right - it does stir me -in a good way :) ... We need to squash all them various local bans that come from towns, cities, states, etc... Ya I know about states rights, etc... But - that does not apply to the 2nd ammendment - period.
I'm with him on that ......
Take care all.
Ken
Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 12:36:27 (ZULU)
As you note, Joe, special forces personnel cannot be expanded indefinitely, for a simple reason not grasped by people like John Kerry - those guys are smart, and there is a limit to the number of smart, tough people who can be induced to do that kind of work, not to even mention the years of training it takes to get them there.
That level of operator is best utilized in leadership positions once they leave the active forces.
Many of the functions like convoy security being done in places like Iraq can be done by personnel who are not special ops capable. I think that non-indigenous personnel should play a substantial role, and by non-indig personnel, I mean people who are neither from the U.S. nor the country in which they operate.
The U.S. military, prior to WWII, was manned by guys who had signed up primarily for "three hots and a cot." Our all-voluntary military is not.
But there are a lot of guys around the globe who would. The British used them - the Gurkhas - and so should we. There are many people around the globe with the discipline and training to do those jobs. They could do a lot of things which don't require U.S. troops, and not just PSD.
The U.S. military is the best in the world at killing people and breaking things. Much of what they are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan is functioning like heavily armed police. That's what most of the Marines in Anbar are doing.
Foreign auxiliaries could do that job well, freeing up U.S. troops for the most important job they should be doing - preparing for the next war. Blackwater's Greystone subsidiary may be the wave of the future.
In any case, we need good people to do that job. They don't all have to come from the U.S.
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 13:45:13 (ZULU)
<snip> Foreign auxiliaries could do that job well, freeing up U.S. troops for the most important job they should be doing - preparing for the next war. "
I couldn't agree more!
I wrote (on this forum) essentially the same thing a few months after this conflict started.
medicjim
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 14:42:30 (ZULU)
I know lots of men working for BW,TC and many others, most in country are top knotch. Now of course some positions have turds in them like any force does, including any military, but for most part they are better than any non US, United Kingdom or South Korea Troops. I hear Tier One a bunch but really not enough Tier One to have many former or currenton deck all the time. These days they class many as Tier One that ten years ago where just troops. They way Tier one used to be was HRT, SEALs, Dealta, SF and Recon USMC. The rest of military and police where below that. Now I hear PD SWAT is Tier One as many military units, I dont agree except in some and few cases.
I completely agree we need to rearm and get ready for next war.
As to some working as contractors who where over head mall ninjas, you could not be more correct. You must have run into some Katrina Contractors also. Crap they had some numb nutts with weapons invlved in that.
Mike/Undude
Mike Miller
Ca, - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 15:05:22 (ZULU)
Out of curiosity has anyone used or heard about Bohica Arms? they are making a really reasonably priced 50 cal upper for an AR... I Haven't heard anything about the company but I would seriously consider getting one if there were good user reviews on them. I was previously looking at the ferret, but after looking around... I don't know. I found a couple lowers that look pretty good and 1 full rifle that doesn't look bad at all.
(click my name)
its a link on Mike Huckabee about his tax hikes. same as below.
http://www.taxhikemike.org/
Anyways yall take care,
Morgue
Mourge
Overseas, - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 15:36:44 (ZULU)
Got the package, thanks! Have you checked your email? What do you think of the project?
JoeM, I wish I could shop the same trash cans that you shop....
Duman
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 16:05:09 (ZULU)
Steve, they make medicine for that. Oh, Joe already prescribed that (GRIN). Interestingly enough, I got to reading on barfcom that the springs in the HK mags don’t hold up as well as they should. Note: this is nothing I know! Just what I read. Springs are reasonable enough – but do need modification to fit the HK follower. Due to the snip-snip, I’d be tempted to go with a slightly longer Wolff spring as a back-up. I’m tempted to buy a stack of the mags, but not tempted enough yet (GRIN). Oddly enough, I cute 19 year old talked me into ordering another XCR carbine yesterday. Half of Robinson’s customer service folks are easy on the eyes ;-) She said to order now, for a February delivery – the light 16” barrels are a bit backordered. This one will be factory ready for a suppressor (GRIN). Yeah, I got your project photos, meant to drop you a line last night. Looks good to me! Plan to stay a bit early next year, try some of mine out.
Doc, I appreciate the offer, but I’m going to give the orlite mag a miss. I started to tap out something about how they wouldn’t work for me before, but then got to questioning if it was the orlite or the thermold that gave me which problem. All I remember for sure was that I didn’t like the thermold or orlite – but don’t remember exactly why. Could it be I’m getting CRAFT early? Heck, it’s only been about 20 years ago... at least IIRC, I played with those in the 80’s. In any case, I’m just going to abuse things that are commonly available now HA!
Now that beta-c mag is another animal. I can see a purpose for it, no question. A limited application tool, but I see a purpose. If I understand correctly, they don’t mind being left loaded. For a fixed position defense weapon – as several mentioned, a M4 version of a paraSAW – I think it’d make perfect sense. If I had an extra $250, I’d have one.
Water storage: Look under your bed. I’m not making any comments here specifically (GRIN) but here’s a thought. Most folks have their bed on a bed stand. You could pull that bed stand out, and toss it. Instead, build up a framework out of 2X4 and plywood. It’ll raise the bed a little bit, but if you measure right, you can stack 5 or 6 gallon water jugs under it. The 5 gallon jugs are 14” tall, and you’re going to eliminate 6” at least by getting rid of the bed stand. Get the ones with the square footprints – you can theoretically fit 49 under a king size bed with about 2” or so of frame on all sides of the mattress. Yeah, just over 1 ton of water, essentially 250 gallons. People treat with different things but bleach tastes salty to me. Permanganate (potassium if you can find it, sodium if you can’t) tastes better to me – and you only need it in PPM levels to keep water safe for YEARS. If you plan to cycle water annually, you might not even need to treat – the chlorine levels out of my tap are OK for a year-long storage (helps if you have a lab that can verify it out of YOUR tap). Drop the water containers into the framework before the top goes on (or run a RV potable water hose from the bathroom sink into the bedroom, and fill the water containers with a waterbed filling valve thing) and the plywood sheets only need to be ‘tacked’ with a half-dozen screws per sheet. Hypothetically, it could be done in an afternoon easily by a father-son-grandson team, for less than $150 in materials and hardware. Depending on where you get the containers (hypothetically, DOT approved shipping containers with gasketed seal bungs – food grade HDPE for safe drinking) they can be as cheap as 5 to 6 federal reserve notes per when bought by the pallet (48 or 64). A pallet of these makes an interesting drive in a small truck (GRIN). Hypothetically of course. Note: if you build with intentions of putting 5 gallon jugs in at the time, and swapping them with the 6 gallon jugs later, even though the manufacturer says they have the same footprint THEY DO NOT. What’s the old adage about measuring twice and cutting once?
Mike Huckabee: I’m still a big Ron Paul supporter, and that’s that. The last guy I got this spun up over was Alan Keyes. Heck, I even changed my voters registration last month so I could vote in the republican primaries – I can always change it back if the primaries don’t go like I want. The thing is, this election comes down to ideology: you’ve got Marxists and Hamiltonians running – as always – and the kicker is this go-around you’ve got a true Jeffersonaian for the first time in a hundred years. Mike Huckabee is the best of the Hamiltonians, and the ONLY democrat / republican (with the exception of R.P.) that I can vote for without the need of a barf bag. A vote for socialist scumbags (virtually all the democratic candidates, virtually all the republican candidates) will get you more of what you do not want – and it IS that simple.
UnDude – you mean the media isn’t to be trusted? HA! I’m VERY picky about my news sources, and even them I look at questioningly. Sorry I haven’t got you my addy yet – I need to do that today.
And on to other matters! I recall saying that I didn’t like the M16 / AR15 in the sand. Enough people had good ones though, that I questioned if it was just me. Here’s the final result:
The recent Aberdeen dust test used 10 sample models of each weapon [ETA: the M4, XM8, SCAR-L, and HK416]. Before going into the dust chamber, testers applied a heavy coat of lubrication to each weapon. Each weapon’s muzzle was capped and ejection port cover closed.
Testers exposed the weapons to a heavy dust environment for 30 minutes before firing 120 rounds from each.
The weapons were then put back in the dust chamber for another 30 minutes and fired another 120 rounds. This sequence was repeated until each weapon had fired 600 rounds.
Testers then wiped down each weapon and applied another heavy application of lubrication.
The weapons were put back through the same sequence of 30 minutes in the dust chamber followed by firing 120 rounds from each weapon until another 600 rounds were fired.
Testers then thoroughly cleaned each weapon, re-lubricated each, and began the dusting and fire sequencing again.
This process was repeated until testers fired 6,000 rounds through each weapon.
60,000 rounds per model later, here’s the data:
• XM8: 127 stoppages.
• MK16 SCAR Light: 226 stoppages.
• 416: 233 stoppages.
• M4: 882 stoppages.
Maybe it wasn’t just me! These results were posted in The Army Times – where I got them.
Bravo
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 16:30:01 (ZULU)
http://www.blackhawk.com/product1.asp?P=4105&C=C2091
Duman
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 17:02:08 (ZULU)
("hershey bar"--a hashmark depicting six months combat service worn on the right sleeve)
Joe M
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 17:09:33 (ZULU)
Sale on SERPA Holsters, at Blackhawk:
I was glad to see they didn't include the Glock21 highwalls they just had a recall on.
Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 17:14:57 (ZULU)
Bravo,
Me and the wife together probably go about 600 pounds. I dunno what our bed weighs, but let's figure 350. Then add the 2,000 pounds of water. I believe some sub-floor reinforcement might be in order there!
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 20:03:27 (ZULU)
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 20:05:06 (ZULU)
They shot the New York Times' dog.
Click on my name for the link.
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 20:12:14 (ZULU)
Ken M
IL, USA - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 20:17:03 (ZULU)
I wonder what is the going per diem rate for a regiment of Gurkhas? Ultimate outsourcing to India/Nepal :-)
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 22:49:06 (ZULU)
I think 'Yote-Bait originally suggested hiring some of those dill-pickles...
Duman
Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 22:59:48 (ZULU)
Sarge
Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Tuesday, December 18, 2007, at 23:28:32 (ZULU)
I have been using the Farrell bases and rings for years. Very well made stuff and about the only decent rail that will fit the older style long actions.
Storing water;
Water weighs 8.34lbs per gallon for those who need to know.
There is no way to keep the chlorine or other disinfection chemicals active for more than a few days after it has been bottled. The chemicals also react with the plasticizer used in the bottles/jugs if left in the container for a while. Not harmful but makes for bad tastes.
Commercial bottled water can be stored for about a year if kept in darkness.
Please feel free to e-mail if you need more water info.
LATER Y'ALL
Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, December 19, 2007, at 00:13:10 (ZULU)
"They shot the New York Times' dog."
I woulda done the same....Wonder if they(NYT) ever heard of leash laws?
UnPat
UnPat
Wi, USA - Wednesday, December 19, 2007, at 00:54:38 (ZULU)
It depends on the ROE.
Duman: I saw a video in which John Pride said that he would like to take the 250 class. A few of us have taken the 250. I recommend it highly. Go home and practice all the techniques then take the 350. Practice those techniques then take the advanced class.
The basic rifle class is also worthwhile.
You'll never look at your guns in the same way.
CDC'
Wednesday, December 19, 2007, at 02:14:37 (ZULU)
They are already there.
Gurkas have bene since start because they work cheap and do a good job. Saw them in other places as well
ROK Marines are top knotch like our guys are.
As pointed out the problem is ROE.
I would love to see more folks go over and put boots in sand awhile and see how well the men do under all the pressure they work in. Mistakes happen but for most part god men are doing a fng hard job very well. Remember though most of us are human and dont know it all.
They have all my respect and I wish I could be back along side them.
Mike/Undude
Mike Miller
Ca, - Wednesday, December 19, 2007, at 02:52:48 (ZULU)
CDC and Mike are right...it is the ROE. I dunno about now, maybe Patreus got this mess organized...
Joe M
Wednesday, December 19, 2007, at 04:03:17 (ZULU)
click my name.
I kinda want to rant about how trust only occurs if it flows both ways--you trust your commander because he trusts you and all that; and how you would kick down the gates of hell for a leader who YOU KNOW has your back...but its been done before, and heck, I ain't got time:))
Today and tomorrow my girls are having little Christmas shows at the schools! See ya...
Joe M
Wednesday, December 19, 2007, at 14:13:48 (ZULU)
Darren
Semper 85-90
Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Wednesday, December 19, 2007, at 17:07:25 (ZULU)
Excelent Read = Licensed To Kill, Robert Young Pelton. The author spent time in country researching, and not just a couple days either.
Does anyone have an informed idea about which way the military is leaning in the 6.5 Grendel vs. 6.8SPC deal. I've got an upper that needs a carrier/bolt, and barrel, and would like to go with something other than 5.56 for a change. I'd like to put something on it that I might possibly be able to buy surplus ammo one day.
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Wednesday, December 19, 2007, at 17:19:30 (ZULU)
medicjim
Wednesday, December 19, 2007, at 18:26:36 (ZULU)
Thank you for the strong recommendation for the Gunsite courses.
Duman
Wednesday, December 19, 2007, at 19:14:16 (ZULU)
ROK military: Man, I've wished on occassion that I too could use their disciplinary techniques on the infamous 10%-ers. The few times where valor got the better part of discretion were close-calls on the ol' career:)) Ahhh, memories! I remember one such little brat--his last name was Peach. My 1SG was Harry T. Washington--and he had me dead-to-rights on each transgrtion; yet he bought my BS excuses and kept handing me this little shitbag. Peach figured he could goad me into hitting him and thus bring me down with him...and I kept falling into the trap...and Harry T (a cajun from the get go)kept right on re-setting the scenario. Looking back, ol' Top knew what he was doing and was enjoying the outcomes. Otherwise, he had to believe that this kid "fell down the stairs," then smacked a dashboard when a dog crossed Long Street (heheh), and cut himself while shaving his eyebrows...all over a 5 day work week. Top's final instructions to me were "get this chaptered POS off my installation." So I drove to the boundary of Ft Bragg on the Murcheson, stopped the car and tossed this lil' bitchpunk and his gear on the side of the road...while ignoring his protests that i "had to take him to the bus station." No; all I "had" to do was get him off Top's installation. The look on his face as i drove off made the whole 2 months of paperwork worthwhile. Top, for his part, was only mildly surprised at how fast I got back from the task...those were the good ol' days.
Joe M
Wednesday, December 19, 2007, at 19:37:53 (ZULU)
"Tactical Shoelaces"
"Tactical Black" (color of knife, as opposed to 'gloss' or 'flat')
"Tactical Tomahawk"
"Twin Turbo Tactical Battering Ram" (our friends at Blackhawk).
Anyone find other interesting ones out there?
I think I'll take a "Tactical Dump" ....
Duman
Wednesday, December 19, 2007, at 22:07:49 (ZULU)
Duman,
I'm sick of that shit too. "Tactical" knives are one of my pet peeves.
Apparently, if you do a half ass job of making a knife, paint it black, then put plastic scales or a paracord handle on it instead of making it to fit a human hand, it's worth about $50 more. Make it out of some kinda metal nobody's heard of, and call it the "Tactical Osama getter", and it's a $300 knife. $500 if you get Rambo to say it's got commie seeking features.
Wanna buy some tactical socks?
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Kansas, U.S.A. - Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 00:37:38 (ZULU)
Especially pricy if fabricated from unobtanium :-)
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 00:52:04 (ZULU)
Pat II
Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 01:56:01 (ZULU)
Click my name if you want to be amused...work safe.
medicjim
Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 02:31:14 (ZULU)
And what "Tactical" color would that be?
No...wait...too much info. ;-))
jc
jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 05:44:35 (ZULU)
I have a question: is the accuracy of a lever action rifle going to be more comparable to a bolt rifle? or a semi auto? I know there are many other variables to the accuracy, i'm just asking about the action/design variable.
thanks,
David
Birdshooter
WA, God Bless America - Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 06:07:21 (ZULU)
On a different note. I'm in Lito land. Cleaning my .308 after 30 or so rounds of reloads and 80 Lake City Match. Spent 4 hours on it yesterday going from Paste to Sweets 7.62 to Hopes and back again, oiling in between. Finally got the blue stuff to qiut but it's still putting out black patches with the Hopes and even the oil. Aargh!!! I'm thinking of plugging it over night and filling it with Hopes. nThe only thing I can figure is that it's seasoned like a frying pan and I'm scrubbing off the seasoning. It's SS and when I look inside it's shiny, but dark shiny not bright.
7.62 x 39 sounds like the way I'll go on the spare upper. What's a good Mag source? DPMS only has 10 rounders. I'd like more capacity if they are available?
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 14:40:41 (ZULU)
http://www.basebed.com/
Found at another site:
"I prefer to lay a one piece base on the action and tighten the front screws and see if the back lifts when you do, or if the base actually bends down a bit. And then I do that with the rear screws and see how it lines up. Which ever one appears best is the one I will use to "locate" the other.
If I use the front as the best fit, I then paint the rear of the action with a thick coat of release agent. I clean the bottom of the base. Then applying either a steel or aluminum bedding compound to the bottom of the rear base. I very lightly tighten the front screws just enough to hold the base in place, and put the rear screws in(with release agent on them) just enough to engage the threads without any down pressure.
When the bedding is cured, I remove the base, clean up the excess, drill the compound out of the holes, and repeat the process on the front of the base, this time tighening the rear screws firmly, letting the front screws sit loose.
After curing, clean up the base, install it firmly using blue loctite on the screws.
Install the rings, getting them lined up as good as you can, and lightly lap them until you can see the bottoms of the rings appear equally lapped. I do nothing with the ring tops. I place a bit of powdered rosin in both rings halves before putting the scope in place, and in the ring tops, before putting them on the scope. I lubricate the ring screws with never sieze and snug them equally quite tight. If there are windage screws in the base, I use blue loctite on them, and snug them good, but not enough to distort them or the base.
If I am using a two piece base, it is a little trickier.. I use the rings in the bases, attached by a tube through the rings to locate the bases and bed them."
Duman
Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 19:43:25 (ZULU)
Anyway, I was wondering about accuracy/reliability of the P.O.F. 308? Otherwise wait until the Robinson 308 comes out?
Thanks from the north country.
SteveinButte
Butte, MT, US&A - Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 21:45:13 (ZULU)
And yeah Steve, Yote Bait said that putting in Gurkhas was the way to go. And told he was full of it. I agree with the whole ROE thing, it’s hard to do your job properly when you’re told HOW you’re going to be doing it (by someone that doesn’t do it) and even more so when micromanaged. By someone that doesn’t do it. It’s also difficult to take someone seriously when they tell you they’re going to build you a new house if you survive the shooting... our government is screwed up big-time, without question. What happened to fighting a war full-out and running the occupied territory until they became our ally (re: Japan, Germany)? Elsewise, I say hit ‘em until they’re out, and then leave (re: Africa post WWII).
Travis, yeah, gotta look at the sub-floor thing. I live on a slab, so that’s not so much of a concern for me. But in addition to the ton of water and the stand –probably 100 pounds or so- I’ve got a tubular water bed on top of that. Figure in another 500 pounds or so for that, and then me on top. When entertaining, I’m sure the total load is close to 3000 lbs ;-) On the good side, we’re talking about a king sized bed – that’s roughly 40 square feet I think. If so, we’re only talking about 75 pounds per square foot. Now whether the sub-floor would handle that is something I don’t know. There are some times I wished I’d taken some engineering or construction courses – but I didn’t.
Joe – on your Hershey bars (and several packets of skittles): you bring up a great point. The thing is, I see your experiences as a triumph of the operator over design. Sure, it works, and obviously well enough in the hands of an operator. But then again, my estimation is that you could have kept an old Mauser up and running all that time – or even some funky frog design (that uses the same direct impingement – I had to reach for that one ‘cause there’s only a couple of direct impingement designs besides the AR15). I’m not saying that it can’t be done, but the question is why throw extra effort into the equation if not completely necessary? And I’m not advocating running around with a dirty rifle either...
You’ve got a good point, how much reliability is “enough”? We all know that any machine will fail, given enough cause and / or time. So what benchmark should we use as “good enough”? I can’t answer that one – other than to give my standard “bigger hammer” answer: too much is never enough.
Interesting comparison - ejection port covers: XM8 doesn’t have one, SCAR doesn’t have one, 416 didn’t have one until the military demanded it be added (HK still claims that’s the only reason they added it to the original 416 release that didn’t have them) but the M4 has one. Gotta ask yourself why.
Likewise, the Stoner said his AR18 – developed after the adoption of the AR15 – was a more reliable design. Our military tested both, and backed up his claim – but then said that they’d already adopted the AR15 so too bad / too late. The SCAR-L and the XM8 are nothing more than repackaged AR18 operating systems – the 416 is a slightly modified / funki-fied AR18 system to stay within the design parameters given (essentially keep it as much like an AR15 as possible). Is it odd that they are more reliable than the AR15 operating system? Not that I’m advocating the XM8 (for sure!), and having never handled a SCAR-L I’m not sticking my neck out... The 416? Well, I’ll keep my mouth shut.
What I do notice is trends. They stick out mostly because there’s nothing new under the sun it appears – nothing truly novel in firearms design. Sure, little tweeks here and there (mostly ergonomics, materials, manufacturing), but the principle of operation all point back to a very few predecessors. I see the AR family as being a tree with no branches (only linear evolution, kind of like the family tree in a democrat household). Other designs flourish – like the Garand design.
I’m not drawing conclusions based on this, but I am drawing attention to the trend as being noteworthy. Now where do I get a bigger hammer?
Steve, I would recommend NOT trying to get one stick to to do both jobs. Trust me on this. I'd still take an M25 any day over a ratgun, and if I'm saying I wouldn't combine them...... I think you're on the right track though for combining a battle rifle and a spotters rifle. The XCR in 308 appears to be the ticket - assuming they build them in time for the liberal onslaught of 2008 (not enough people willing to vote for the person that best represents them - they figure it's a horse race that you bet on who will win). If not, then you're back to "second tier" answers - the AR10 and the FAL equipped for QD optics. In all honesty, I don't know where the POF falls in things, I've never got my hands on one. Alex told me that the XCR-M will use DPMS / AR10 308 mags, so you won't lose on proprietary mags.
Bravo
Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 23:14:34 (ZULU)
"...it’s hard to do your job properly when you’re told HOW you’re going to be doing it (by someone that doesn’t do it) and even more so when micromanaged. By someone that doesn’t do it."
Ummm.... ex-wife come to mind? DOH!
... now ducking for cover.... :8-o
Duman
Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 23:37:55 (ZULU)
Birdshooter: More like an 870 with #7 steel shot at the same ranges...
Joe M
Friday, December 21, 2007, at 03:35:10 (ZULU)
The thought for the Holiday Season is:
Don't do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the paramedics.
Merry Christmas everyone. And Best Wishes for you and your loved ones whether far away or near to you. And everyone please say a special prayer for our brothers and sisters overseas, and the ones serving here at home.
Have a wonderful Christmas.
jc
jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Friday, December 21, 2007, at 05:40:17 (ZULU)
The reaction of the permangenate depends largely on the plastic used to make the bottle. You may want to do a quality check every so often to make sure the water is still good. A filter system using activated charcoal will help remove the flunky tastes when you are ready to use the water. 20ppm is some serious chlorination. EPA minimum chlorine residual for municipal water services is 0.2ppm with 3ppm being the highest most systems go. Superchlorination technique that is used to disinfect new water mains and tanks is 50ppm for 24 hours.
Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Friday, December 21, 2007, at 09:35:47 (ZULU)
When the mightiest power on earth comes to town some will look and ask what God lets them have such power, and maybe it's time for a conversion.
How the heck did I get on a rant like that!?! Oh Well, MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!! and if you don't believe in the SON Happy Hanukkah!
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Friday, December 21, 2007, at 13:44:48 (ZULU)
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Friday, December 21, 2007, at 14:28:34 (ZULU)
And they passed that psycho gun bill background check enhancement. Geee, the hold got lifted cause it included language that the guvmint will pay "successful" claims to re-instate your rights---while also including PTSD data from the VA and other military databases; in other words--this mandates the release of personal medical info, which will then be evaluated by medical experts?--No, by some bureaucrat bastard. If you get screwed out of your rights that you had yesterday by this administrative reaming---well, to bad--you must now "prove your innocence" to the very same government that just fucked ya. Great, and if this government decides it was wrong in its classification of you as a psycho--then this said government has to pay you for your efforts to clear your name.
Does this frighten the hell out of any one else here--or am I the only nut job??? Grin.
But, yeah...I checked a block on redeployment forms once that I had sleep issues. So I guess this is going to screw me initially. And a shitload of other vets across this great nation as well...not the best group of folks to get riled up over unconstitutional Ben Dovers' that blows right by all due process. Man; this kinda shit just flames my...grrrrrrrrrrrrr.
GWB had better veto this crap.
I don't ask for much (other than advice)---
but can we flood the WH servers with original emails against this bad law???? Implore a veto??? Maybe hit your reps and sentors too to prevent an override?
This must not become law as written.
Joe M
Friday, December 21, 2007, at 14:51:06 (ZULU)
"IIRC, the military treats such bulbs as hazardous waste, due to trace mercury(?) and the busted bulbs being generally bad for ya. So now we're going dump tons (daily) into the environment?"
Yep, that's about the sum total. Now the next step will be to outlaw flourescent lights for LEDs. You don't EVEN want to know what chemicals are used in making LEDs for lighting.
Duman
Friday, December 21, 2007, at 15:49:15 (ZULU)
SSG Mac
Friday, December 21, 2007, at 18:14:17 (ZULU)
Let's wait and see what SCOTUS has to say about the 2nd and individual rights before we get all wrapped around this particular axle. Then, we just refuse to give 'em the guns, no matter what they say....fuck 'em, we have the guns, that's the 99.9% of the argument right there.
Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, December 21, 2007, at 18:38:51 (ZULU)
http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/Congress_OKs_Va_Tech-Insp/2007/12/19/58448.html--or click
Charles, if this gets signed, or ignored--then it is law long before oral arguments in SCOTUS begin. Sure it will take a while to get rolling on the databases, but I am not sure that SCOTUS will strike down this law even if they do rule for the individual right---reasonable exceptions will likely be allowed with a carefully worded, narrowly decided victory for us.
What chaffes my ass bad here is that I (or someone just like myself) will suddenly find themselves unable to buy firarms (Wis does backgrounds on rifles too) the day after they legally could buy one--just like that. Then, the burden of proof is on I or them to regain their rights. That is pure BS; our founders wrote a very good document that was designed to prevent a government from even contemplating this sort of action.
Slippery slope? I've heard that phrase--and heard the counter that "this is America--it could never happen here; this law or that law is narrow and only applies to a few gun owners (or land owners, or businessmen)" It is the old "but the ends justify the means" argument---and exactly why it WILL happen here. Totalitarian rule. Socialism cannot function thru human nature without a thorough police state limiting the "cheaters" who want more than the next guy. And it is hard to acheive a totalitarian police state with armed citizens running about...and therefore hard to administer socilized programs like national healthcare and greater income redistributions. Is anyone listening to Hillery, John and Barrack vying to give away the most treasury notes to "the poor" as they try to buy the presidency??? Hello?
Little by little meaningless laws meant to combat high profile "problems", for about 95 years now, adds up to quite a mess far beyond the limits of the constitution--and the law designed to "get mobsters" seems to do just fine getting anyone who pisses off the powers that be lately, eh? Hate crime laws, RICO--we are talking crimes of intent with these and others like them; thought crimes divined by those with the keys to the grand jury room. Well, how long before someone decides that these laws--purportedly to be used against skinheads or gangstas decides that you who voice opposition are in violation as well? Christ (and happy birthday, savior), it has started already! There are abuses reported in every jurisdiction--not hard to find if you bother to look. Most do not...they hardly care.
Erosions of rights under the pretence of the greater good is a slippery slope. Just because RICO, the IRS, FICA and the Fed predate us and "have always been" doesn't make them right--we are just used to them. Indoctrination. Chip another right off the bill of ten, and wait for the next generation to forget about it. The last one was emminent domain; now "public use" is not a requirement to steal your land---just a better "public purpose" provided by any one who wants to buy himself a city council or county board. My son, once he becomes a little more politically aware--may never miss the "old days." OK, not if i can help that--I take his civics lessons seriously since "government-run schools" got away from the education business---but I am an oddball in the larger population (I suspect I am right at home on this forum).
Politicians, unwittingly or with intent, have made this slippery slope a slight decline to go unnoticed. Hell--even when you cite specific examples of the expansion of a law that results in tighter and tighter restrictions on the average man's rights---people still think you are nuts to say such things. Sheeple just do not connect dots worth a damn!
Yeah...I suppose I am pissed about this new law. The intent is to prevent psychos from getting guns after going bonkers--which seems perfectly reasonable. But in the haste to "do something" with all the right intentions--they are aiming right at almost every GWOT/ Vietnam era vet with their (perhaps) unintended consequences. That's a hint at how I really feel about this...but I promised not to say so out loud here. If I am nuts, then I demand that it gets proven in a court of law. And, while we are at it---I want to see the probable cause in discovery that led to the charges filed (to be followed immediately by a motion to dismiss under the fifth ammendment among others). My VA records may not be enough to catch the hassle--that I won't know til denied these rights. At which point---I take on expenses today for reimbursement tomorrow--but only if they "allow" my successful challenge. That is backasswards from all i know of my country's founding principles.
Joe M
Friday, December 21, 2007, at 21:25:51 (ZULU)
The good news is this is bad law from an emotive desire to take action. It is vulnerable under numerous challenges. Reasonable expectation of privacy and the fifth ammendment for the any self-incriminating evidence culled from priveledged records (which, BTW, are protected under another draconian statute themselves which specifically targeted government functionaries who used to disclose confidential patient info with impunity---hefty fines and very, very narrow disclosure under law that, if not specifically addressed somewhere in this new bill makes one helluva conflict with criminal consequences for anyone who takes my rights:)); it flies in the face of "ex post facto" in that (using me as an example) I was perfectly legal, despite any loss of sleep, prior to this law and can prove it by showing receipts obtained in the intervals; Violates due process and habeus corpus; hell--it won't stand anywhere outside of the nineth circuit!
That's the good news. The bad news is we have lawmakers who could care less. They passed this abortion.
Joe M
Friday, December 21, 2007, at 21:42:28 (ZULU)
between the West and SW Asia.
http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=175169
or click my name
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, December 21, 2007, at 21:48:00 (ZULU)
The background material on the enhanced instant check (in the US) I have seen is that many vets have *already* been shafted on the PTSD thing. This at least provides a better mechanism to get relief from the prohibition. Agree it's not all positive.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, December 21, 2007, at 21:57:04 (ZULU)
SSG Mac
Friday, December 21, 2007, at 22:10:34 (ZULU)
Good luck with your "Rambo knives" ban being peddled thru the system as we speak;))
No written word should ever bother anyone, unless you do not get to say how the words are interpretted. And that is where the danger lies for individual rights. Who gets to say what the words mean.
I think Ron Paul is out to lunch on Islam and negotiations with Iran--but I am starting to believethat his other message is far, far more important to this republic. Indeed, all he needs is a slap in the face ala 9/11 as he tried to accede to the demand of an "infidel-free Holyland" to bring him right back to the bigger hammer theory of realpolitik. I am at the tipping point of judging the loss of liberty as worse than a few nuked liberal hotbed coastal cities (followed by a renewed GWOT with a vengence).
I just opened email to see what Mac had to say, and I also got a JPFO alert on this legislation---very unflattering to the NRA-ILA.
I'd be glad to "quote it/ post it" here if anyone is interested in what they said on this topic. Bombadiers on the gun rights; these guys crack me up with their dedication. Their stances may seem extreme...but history shows they are right in that there is no other way to settle this; it takes a hardline stance against all such measures---because a little one now leads to a bigger hit on our rights later...justlook at the erosion since 1934 when this all began at the federal level. Hell, it started in localities even before then--very small steps there!
And if you think the DC case is a slam dunk---it all rides on how Justice Kennedy sees it. He is the odds-on favortie to set the majority. And he has been unusually quiet on this subject.
This could the be the worse of it all---long before the election.
Joe M
Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 00:11:21 (ZULU)
I think the tri-state has endured enough on behalf of the Union.... how's about Chi-town next.... you downwind?
medicjim
Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 00:33:07 (ZULU)
Not holding out Canada as a shining model to emulate. They also play the salami-slicing/frog boiling game too.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 00:38:34 (ZULU)
The "Rambo Knives" thing is a provincial initative, primarily in Quebec. Many Quebec politicians love restricting just about anything. Not a sentiment as universally embraced at a Federal level, or even in other provinces. Quebec's current gov't is also a different party than the party in power Federally.
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/story.html?id=a9fa4590-7f30-433e-9629-59a1ef1feb23&k=99106
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 00:44:40 (ZULU)
Rod: Just wait;)) Our gun laws grew out of a few eastern towns banning sixguns. Trust me, you are just one stabbing away from a federal ban. I wasn't meaning to pick on you---but instead to highlight the process and the effects of the slow bleed on our thinking. The loss of freedom doesn't come in one big omnibus bill--it is sold with a million little ones over time and even generations, all wrapped in pretty do-good bows with frills.
"They came for my neighbors Rambo Knife, and I did nothing..."
Bawhawhawhaw:))
Joe M
Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 01:32:24 (ZULU)
Heheh. yeah; we'd do the right thing---but only after imagining the effects:))))
Joe M
Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 01:37:55 (ZULU)
Canada has been suffering from legislative incrementalism for decades (too). The gun owners in Canada are sometimes their own worse enemy. The various factions have many folks who don't understand that just because their ox is not currently being gored doesn't mean it won't be eventually. So you get the shotgunners looking down on everyone else, the rifle shooters looking down on the handgunners, and the range shooters looking down on the hunters. Various past Canadian federal governments have used salami slicing tactics, making one class of firearm prohibited and others restricted. They then move over one square and repeat the process. Various shooting incidents by loons have motivated Canadian legislation in this realm.
The progression has moved thru full auto, cosmetically challenged semi-auto rifles and some handguns so far, with each moving from restricted to prohibited with grandfathering and even prohibited in some cases.
California and Canada seems to be in a neck-in-neck race for who can prohibit models faster.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 02:05:12 (ZULU)
I'm about 30 miles west of Manhattan...a real nuke during the work day would kill about half the people I know. That's assuming a normal weather pattern.
medicjim
Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 02:42:14 (ZULU)
On the mag subject: USGI beer-can AR mags vs. Para Ordnance propietary hi-caps--given a hobsen's choice of picking one or the other NIB untested by me to stake my life on--I'll go with the USGI hands down. The sheer numbers of "no problemo" mags for the AR contrasts against the 1 in 4 "needs wolff magic fix springs" mags from my paras makes this a no=brainer. Still, test them in training before betting your life on them. The USGI contract mag will not go bad just laying around without some serious abuse. My para mags have proven unreliable in near-predictable percentage.
Geoff: I gots the bludie mari micks doun to a psy-yonce. hic...it wuz all aboot duh glaz psyze---a 12 ownce glaz werked hic...now eye kneed a knew bottul of vodkuh 2 perfekt it. I tink 2 morrow gonna sux....hic.
(next time you bring booze--better take it home or Angie will start to blame you for my stupidity---heheh--the third one was killer good)
Joe M
Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 02:53:36 (ZULU)
http://winchesterguns.com/catalog/catagory.asp?cat=001C
Gary Kaney
N.W., IL, - Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 11:43:53 (ZULU)
http://press.winchesterguns.com/catalog/category.asp?cat=001C
Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 11:58:51 (ZULU)
Just went to see the opening of it last night. I'm not sure what the reviewers have had to say, being as how most of them are liberals, and working for liberal newspapers, I thought I'd give my review.
It's not a chick flick, unless your chick is a right wing conservative or has a Poly Sci degree. It's very well told, as in it's the truth. Definately not one of those Hollywood, scare everyone out of Iraq movies, or Michael Moore type. Since it's history, or at least based on it, I can't ruin the ending for you, as most of us in here are pretty much up on our geopolitical history. The Soviets lose! What kept me interested, and that's hard to do, is how the history is told. The people in the movie are are played as true to life as possible, and still make a good movie. It's NOT a War movie. It's how the covert war was fought movie. And after seeing a "how it was made" on one of the movie channels, it seems that the real life poeple are as portraied in the movie. I also liked the subtle hints on what would happen to Iraq if we "just pull 'em out" and not stay the course to see the country come to peace with our help. The movie also takes time to educate the public on the way things work over there. As in, just because you help someone doesn't mean they know where the help is coming from, and are going to be grateful afterwards. Communications don't work like that there. not everyone has the internet, television, or even a simple radio for that matter. If we don't do the right thing in Iraq now, we'll have another Afganastan on our hands in 20 years. BRAVO Hollywood, for telling it right and not slanting it to the left.
Gary, Thanks for that link. The world is not doomed after all.
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 14:43:00 (ZULU)
Tks for the review of "Charlie Wilson's War". I had read the book earlier, was planning on a Monday matinee showing. I was concerned that Hollywood would try and make it into a slapstick comedy, perhaps they did something right for a change.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 15:33:29 (ZULU)
The wife wants a gaurd dog and mentioned the above. Any info will be appreciated.
Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Saturday, December 22, 2007, at 20:10:08 (ZULU)
Gents: Gary is a heck of a gentleman. He delivered a large steel gong target to the farm, going well out of his way while handling a family matter to the south. Heheh, he also caught me in the lazy mode with the house a wreck too:)) But he (yeah you, Gary) is always welcome here to shoot guns or the breeze at any time!
Joe M
Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 00:24:07 (ZULU)
Vegan nightmare. cool as hell for the kid and his proud grandpa.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 01:37:56 (ZULU)
This is not my work, and I don't know who wrote it. Enjoy.
BTW, we got over eight inches of snow today. Barring Al Gore showing up and melting it all, we'll have a really white Christmas!
Merry Christmas!
The Night before Christmas (as it should be........)
'Twas the night before Christmas,
cold, dark and foreboding,
I sat at the work bench,
quite busy reloading.
The empties from autumn were polished so clear
for primers and powder and bullets from Speer
and Hornady´s soft-points, and Nosler´s Partitions
(my bench Ain’t no place for brand
name omissions!).
All sat in their boxes, right next to the
press with dies from Pacific, and RCBS,
when all of a sudden there came such a jolt,
I grabbed for my Benelli and whipped out my Colt.
As I spilled Hodgdon's powder all over the shelf,
I scrambled for cover, just to protect myself.
From up on the rooftop, came hoofbeats and snorting
like the noise out of L'il Rock from Clinton's cavorting!
I eased off the safety to press-check my
auto with 230-talons I'll knock 'em all blotto.
Were these rogue federal agents sent by Schumer and Reno ?
Or a staggering Ted Kennedy, in bad need of vino?
My question was answered with a knock, and some sneezing,
"It's Santa, you moron, lemme in there, I'm freezing!"
I flipped off the dead-bolt and threw the door wide
to find St. Nick a shivering, Rudolph by his side.
He eyeballed my A.K. with a nod of approval
"You're all set," he said, "for dirtball removal."
"But this is no raid, we're not here to harm you
nor persecute, prosecute, nor even disarm you."
"Instead," said dear Santa, "I needed to borrow
your .357 'till day after tomorrow."
"It's okay," he assured me, with a hint of frustration,
"I'm enrolled in the National Rifle Association."
He showed me his card, 'twas a Life Member rating,
"I've had this since me and the missus were dating!"
"And you see, Dave, ol' buddy, I've gotten real nervous
since Feinstein was elected with a promise to serve us.
So henceforth as I'm out there, my presents a stackin',
I want to assure you, I'm legally packin'',
and my gift for you this year should give you a hoot
I've told the Supreme Court to give Brady the boot!
Now, Rudy and I must be on our way,"
he said as he climbed back in his sleigh.
With the reins in his hand and my Colt in his pocket,
he jingled the sleighbells and was off like a rocket.
With a pair of speedloaders and ammo to spare,
I knew he'd be safe, he was loaded for bear!
As he faded from view, I could still hear him calling
"From D.C., where 'P.C.' is already falling.
To bad guys in L.A. , Detroit and Atlanta ,
"I'm licensed to carry, don't go messin' with Santa!"
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., (the southern arctic) - Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 02:18:56 (ZULU)
Sharon
Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 03:17:05 (ZULU)
I'll have to catch the true story on the history channel when they rerun it.
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 04:41:19 (ZULU)
I'll take you up on that.
My uncle was a medic in WWII. He fought at Bastone. I take notes everytime i'm with him. I'm going to miss that guy.
Gary Kaney
NW, ILL, - Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 10:53:56 (ZULU)
"Bill would limit seizing of guns
Legislators look to curb power allowed during emergencies
By PATRICK MARLEY
pmarley@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Dec. 22, 2007
Madison - State lawmakers want to clip the power of the governor and local officials to seize people's guns during emergencies, saying that authority could trample the rights of citizens.
Legislators said they decided to try to curb those powers after seeing New Orleans police officers take guns from people during the recovery from Hurricane Katrina in 2005.
The Republican-run Assembly passed the bill this month on a bipartisan 84-13 vote, and the Democratic-led Senate is looking at doing the same soon.
"I just think it's important that if there ever is a disaster similar to Katrina, that citizens are able to defend themselves, their families and their property and not be worried about government coming and confiscating their firearms," said Rep. Scott Gunderson (R-Waterford), the sponsor of the bill.
But Rep. Fred Kessler (D-Milwaukee) said he was worried the bill goes too far. He said he recalls seeing the police stop vigilantes with guns from entering Milwaukee when it was gripped by civil unrest in 1967.
He said that around that time, a man trained a gun on him from a third-floor window as Kessler walked down Juneau Ave.
"I thought, 'Oh, my, my. . . he may just kill me,' " Kessler said. "That incident was very vivid in my mind."
Police must be able to fully protect people during such times, he said.
"I don't want to seize guns," he said. "I want to limit the transportation of weapons into areas of confrontation."
Kessler was one of 13 Democrats to vote against the bill. Thirty-three Democrats joined 51 Republicans to pass the measure.
The governor, the adjutant general who runs the Wisconsin National Guard and local officials have long been able to exercise emergency powers during disasters or civil unrest. The bill would prohibit those officials from using their emergency powers to "restrict the lawful possession, transfer, sale, transport, storage, display or use of firearms or ammunition."
Twenty-one other states, including Louisiana, have passed similar laws since Hurricane Katrina, according to the National Rifle Association, which backs the law.
The proposed law in Wisconsin is broader than some. For instance, the Louisiana law provides an exemption that gives police the power to take a gun from someone if they believe they need to do so to protect themselves or others.
But Gunderson said his bill would not curb the normal powers of the police because they would be able to do the same things during emergencies that they can do during other times. Officers could set up roadblocks to stop traffic if needed, which would prevent everyone - including those transporting firearms - from getting into specific areas, he said.
Senate Majority Leader Russ Decker (D-Weston) said he would like his house to pass the bill soon.
"I think people's homes are their castles, and law-abiding citizens that are playing by the rules ought to have a protection that government is not going to intrude on their property," Decker said.
"This is more than just a gun issue. This is an invasion of law-abiding people's residences by government officials - you shouldn't be able to do that without cause."
Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle will review the bill if it gets to him to decide whether to sign it, aide Carla Vigue said.
"We really need to understand the implications of curtailing the powers of emergency management during a time of crisis," Vigue said.
End Article
I was a manager at the RR, and I was involved in planning an emergency response exercise a few years ago. It involved all the city officials including the FD and PD, and the regional FEMA manager. I cooked up a very plausible scenario (train derailment with hazmat). The train derailed and cut the town in half. Ironically, the Middle School and the High School were on one side of the tracks less than a 1/4 mile away. The school bus company was immediately next to the tracks, downwind, on the OTHER side.....thus both contaminated and cut off from both schools. It was a great scenario.....and it was probably the most likely one. Without going into a lot of detail, let's just say that the local officials including the chief of police, were aghast at the suggestion of "why don't we organize the parents so we can work with them and use their vehicles for an immediate mass evacuation instead of allowing the kids to die in place while we wait for buses from the next township (my suggestion). The police chief especially looked like he had just swallowed a large turd. The local citizenry were viewed in this planning event as objects to be controlled and dealt with rather than people with rights, much less people with skills or talents to be utilized.....or even people with working vehicles that are desperately needed right now! Amazing.
Met up with Ken M.....he's an understated guy that I wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of! Great taste in rifles too....much better than mine. Keep this up and we'll have the makings of a decent sized Roster Shoot here......
Geoff M
WI, USA - Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 13:00:48 (ZULU)
As the Poles said at the time, "The SU didn't fall. Reagan pushed it."
Click my name.
CDC'
Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 13:13:34 (ZULU)
You are dead on with the Emergency Management types. The thing that perplexes me is that every single time I've engaged the willing public in supplementing my force (which is a fairly frequent occurrance), I am not only impressed with their performance, but my belief in "the people" as a whole is renewed (and remember, we are talkiing NJ here!). I present these direct facts to my peers and they turn into irrational boobs instantaneously.
The bias is not unique to Fire and Police....all government, to include the armed services have the exact same problem.
medicjim
Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 14:13:05 (ZULU)
This view of the public as a bunch of incompetent rubes is strange: the most competent (and nearly the wealthiest) man I've ever known is a dirt farmer who got into general contracting as a sideline. He looks like a cartoon characterization of a Hillbilly. He & his two sons work 15-18 hour days all year, and don't owe anyone a dime.
One of his sons bought a Double-wide to put on his land. He thought he ought to have insurance on it so he got the agent out there to look at it. The agent starts saying "you'll have to put on gutters, and a deck, and this & that.... The son says "I'm not doing all that". "Well, the Bank will require you to have insurance, and no company will write a policy if you don't." "I don't have a mortgage, don't owe a penny on it." "Well, what will you do if it burns down tonight?!?" "I'll go out tomorrow and buy another. Now get off my land!"
I got that from the guy himself while he worked a job for me at the plant I worked at. Didn't believe it at the time, but talking to others who know the family, and hunting with them a few times, I believe every word now. ...Laugh my ass off about it whenever It comes to mind.
Heinlien was right: specialization is for insects.
Bill
SSG Mac
Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 15:18:09 (ZULU)
Here's a product that may solve a dilemma that has dogged combatants ever since man first launched a projectile in anger: How to look and shoot around corners without losing your face.
The Corner Shot consists of a segmented, assault rifle-type folding stock, pistol-grip contraption, onto which is attached a pistol of choice and a compact, detachable color video camera. A lateral left and right swinging hinge mechanism and a remote trigger control allow the user to drop the hammer on targets from behind the safety and comfort of any right-angled structure.
The system, especially designed for urban combat and police SWAT operations, was reportedly developed by two former IDF officers with funding by U.S. investors. A number of police departments have tested the equipment. The company, also called Corner Shot, is headquartered in Miami and has offices in Israel.
Today's combat situations in low-intensity conflicts involve fighting in urban terrain, which unnecessarily exposes security forces to the enemy, said Amos Golan, one of the inventors. "This Corner Shot removes the need for this initial exposure."
There must be a market for this because the Chinese are hot on Corner Shot's tail with their version, the HD66, a superior product, the PLA claims. For instance, "better man-machine interface, such as people can search the object in proper eye alignment with the Ocular displaying scope." This makes for "more combat concealment consideration than Cornershot's LCD display, which possibly exposes the shooter by the screen glisten."
Also available from Corner Shot, an assault rifle version that takes standard 5.56mm as well as a 40mm "personal" grenade launcher. Best of all, if for the name alone, is the disposable Corner Shot Panzerfaust 60mm, built in collaboration with Dynamit Nobel Defence of Germany.
The Corner Shot slogan is "Makes Tight Corners an Advantage," which beats "Why Use an $11, 1-Ounce Mirror, When You Can Lug an 8.5-pound, $5,000 Hunk of Gear that Needs Batteries?"
\\
I think the review is a little extreme, the mirror makes it possible to see targets, but still doesn't answer the problem of actual target engagement.
I've seen this on "Future Weapons", it was pretty impressive in the QCB range demos.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 16:07:46 (ZULU)
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 17:47:24 (ZULU)
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 18:41:56 (ZULU)
The book "Charlie Wilson's War" was a nice read, but I understand that not everyone enjoys reading books.
It has re-issued on 06-Nov-2007 in trade format paperback to capitalize on the movie tie-in. (complete with a movie still for the cover).
http://www.amazon.com/Charlie-Wilsons-War-Extraordinary-Congress/dp/0802143415/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198438267&sr=8-3
No dust on the publisher :-)
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 19:36:51 (ZULU)
Those interested in the specific language may click on my name for the text.
The underlined text on that page is the new language added by the bill.
It also passed a "Castle Doctrine" law - the language of that bill is here:
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/SB00378F.htm
Gotta love a state which learns from the bad judgement of others.
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Sunday, December 23, 2007, at 20:04:12 (ZULU)
MedicJim: As ususal, you cut right thru all BS and nail a great point; this is the source of the jealousy the uniformed have on the contracted. The money differential is just a bogey-man in the equation: It chaffes some butts that they "need" help doing what they are trained to do. I guess it does cut a wide swath thru our "responders" of all stripe! Never thought of it this way before...live and learn:))
Travis: LMOA! That Al Gore crack split my gut! Al Gore is welcome up here, the drifts could use a little of his global warming hot air. I'm tired of plowing my driveway. Ran the dang JD outta diesel; thought I had 15 gallons left in storage (in-laws got it)--then discovered that I have a screen thingie in my fuel spout on the truck to make siphoning a bitch. I got so pissed, I just told the wife where to find the four wheel drive lockers...So, hey--Al; bring me some of that damned crap you're preaching up here to where the globe forgot to warm:))
Joe M
Monday, December 24, 2007, at 04:28:53 (ZULU)
Is frontsight the douchebag center of the universe, or does it just seem that way? All of their e-mails just seem to brag about what has-been celebrities attend their courses.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., under a buttload of snow! - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 07:12:15 (ZULU)
Just wanted to wish you a merry xmas, and happy holidays...
Morgue
Just a couple thoughts of the day...
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff113/t_mourge/posters/?action=view¤t=ATT00259.jpg
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff113/t_mourge/posters/?action=view¤t=ATT00265.jpg
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff113/t_mourge/posters/?action=view¤t=ATT00256.jpg
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff113/t_mourge/posters/?action=view¤t=ATT00253.jpg
The link on mine name is a xmas and holiday thought...
Mourge
Overseas, - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 08:03:31 (ZULU)
I just popped in to say I ain't forgot you lazy bums.
Everything is sorta OK.
The final trial is on January 10th, 11th, (and maybe the 14th and 15th).
There is a pool of 4 judges that can get the case, and I have been doing some "backhanded" work to eliminate two of them from the pool that think all "mommies" are sugar and spice, are prejudice against fathers (they're nails, snails, and puppy dog tails ;)... so this past week I have been writing misconduct complaints to the state Judge review board against both of them.
The complaints will eventually get dismissed, but not in time for trial - in the mean time, that will disqualify them from getting the trial - the other two judges think I'm the Easter Bunny, and hate her ;) ;) ;)
Everything you have ever heard about how dirty the court system is...
... was the GOOD PART!
It really gets worse, once you are working on the inside.
I'll be away from the net for the next few weeks until after the trial (I might peek in once in a while ;) )
Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to all of you bums.
Hug your kidlets, and thank God for every minute you have with them - and when they do some mischief, don't yell at them - hug them again.
There will come a time when you miss that mischief and giggling, and muddy foot prints in the living room...
Merry Christmas and Happy New Years.
'lito
CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 14:23:08 (ZULU)
WR Moore
Monday, December 24, 2007, at 15:08:12 (ZULU)
Now that I have the coffee cleaned off my screen, I love your warped sense of humor. You're almost as bad as me. Thanks for being over there and doing what you're doing. WY6.
'lito,
We're all prayin' for ya. Hang in there Sir.
Cheers & Merry Christmas to all,
Doc
Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 15:43:00 (ZULU)
Best Regards Pete
Peter Lincoln
DE - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 17:18:44 (ZULU)
Sarge
Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 18:34:11 (ZULU)
Big news: Blake had trouble listening to pop about things military and war. It is the dad syndrome--as in "whatta I know, I'se jes' dad." So he met up with the perfect recruiter (on his own, without my meddling)--who happens to be a very young (I couldn't have been...) Buck Sergeant fresh from the 82d and Iraq. They've been talking things over at quite some length. So:
If things go smoothly, he will ship out for Infantry OSUT at Benning in February, followed by Airborne school, then an assignment at Bragg. He starts the process in January--so that a "quick ship" kicker bonus is included. All told, he is looking at 30K; and unlike me at his age--is seeking advice for a real eastate investment;)) I'd wasted it on a pony car myself at that age...
OK--so I know exactly what he is getting into. I know what a private does in the infantry. I also know what a Major does in SF, or a SFC, or a SSG...and the differences in my wars vs. his are remarkable.
Is it OK if i am secretly scared shitless all of a sudden? Proud as hell...but now it is my turn dealing with reality.
Time to hire surrogates to impress him on the fact that "all that silly crawling and moving fast" is really worth paying attention to.
I swear--I've even thought about sticking his ass behind the berm and popping AK rounds over his noggin. That sound needs to instill action--not wondering. God knows I have thought about it more than once when I should have been moving.
Aw, heck: It's been his dream since I can remember him having any. And i know it came from my friends and not me--he looks up to the folks I've hung around with. exposure to these guys--well, you all know what that is. And it was not me but those i associated with that made the impression. His goal is to make it to an A team after some experience (maybe that was me explaining that to him, maybe not)--but he did not know about my past---he thought I was just a pilot with cool friends for years. He found 18C on his own thru the internet cuz he inherited my "pyro-genes." When he told me, I told him...and he was surprised:)) So, that also made me realize that he was taking cues from others around me and not me. Humbling, but hardly surprising. You should see this kid respond to Geoff M out on the shooting benches. I may as well be a loser on the trigger for all he listened to me. Just a dad, after all:)) Now I sense that there is a little competitiveness driving him too--if Dad did something, he'll do it better to show me.
OK, so I tried everything. Literally every damned child rearing tactic ever written down to get thru to him. At times, i thought I missed and blew the only chance you get as a parent (aka the teen years). But despite the apparent failure---we never stopped trying to guide him. failure seemed there in our face---but we did not give up. A year ago, I'd have bet against him doing anything but hard time...still, I played whatever card i had.
In the end and in his own time, all that I wanted him to know about integrity, honesty, loyalty and his country is there. It takes a while for the ingrediants to mix, I suppose.
Man...is it something to see a man emerge from the cesspit of the dreaded hormonal years.
Lito: Prayers in overdrive to you, my friend. It was the same crusade on my part that brought me to this place with Blake. It was worth every tear. It was worth every last penny. It was what life is truly all about.
Joe M
Monday, December 24, 2007, at 19:26:00 (ZULU)
Just finished watching in the theatre. It gets my ultimate compliment to a Hollywood production on a topic/story where I have some prior knowledge - it didn't make me cringe :-)
Nice closing quotation just before the start of the end credits.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 19:39:59 (ZULU)
We have one about to graduate from college, who's already accepted a full-time job. The other is a junior in college, who I was convinced in high school was going to jail. Now she's making A's, and can't wait to get out of school, because most of the people she knows her own age are losers.
A prophet is not honored in his own country, nor a parent in his house. Life must teach them the lessons they will not learn from us. Sometimes those lessons are hard.
But sometimes they learn from what we do, rather than what we say. I am sure he will do well.
Good on ya, mate!
And Merry Christmas to everyone!
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 19:54:46 (ZULU)
Merry Christmas. I'm not the best spokesman, but I believe that we celebrate the birth of Christ, God's Son. May this holiday find you all with opportunity to feel the joy, thankfulness, and forgiveness in your hearts that He provides.
"Matthew 2:9-14
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."
God Bless you and your loved ones!
Geoff M
WI, USA - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 20:43:15 (ZULU)
To everyone else, happy holidays.
Please, everyone stateside...watch out for drunks, they've destroyed two families in my town this week...I'll spare you the details, but two in one week is really horrific.
For those deployed, far from home and family, sacrificing so that the rest of us can live free...thank you doesn't seem enough. You are in our hearts, and I'll be spending a good bit of time tonight explaining what you do to my little girl, so that she knows how much you've given up so that she can be free. THANK YOU!
For those of you that have stood that watch in the past...I wish you a wonderful holiday filled with happiness and good cheer... no doubt the food will taste better when you think back on your time of sacrifice and know that you made a difference.
medicjim
Monday, December 24, 2007, at 21:03:35 (ZULU)
I want to wish all of you a merry Christmas. It has been another good but hectic year but it looks like most of us made it through unscathed. I've got a bottle of unopened Crown Royal that has been rotting in the cabinet for about 10 years. I think I'll use that to toast Master Bruce with this year. I don't drink much anymore but I never miss the toast.
Lito.......
My thoughts are with you bud. You know the email address if you need anything.
Medicjim......
Been rough around here lately also. ED census is staying sky high and flu season still hasn't hit yet (at least around here).
Joe and Lindy.........
I found with my daughter that she finally got her head out of her ass at 25 years old. Was a long haul but tough love worked. Don't give them any slack, remember how your folks brought you up, do the best you can and don't look back. Sometimes they just have to screw up and pay the price before they get the picture.
WR.......
Finally got Doughlady shooting pistols Saturday. I've created an ammo eating monster. She goes for concealed weapons class on Jan.12 so we have a lot to do in three weeks. She's a left and everything I tell her is backasswards. Gonna have a hell of a time finding a pistol that workie for a left handed right eye dominant woman type person.
Mourge.......
You owe me a keyboard. That makes a dozen this year with various expelled liquids on them.
Geoff.....
I think the majority of the public wants to help. Some are scared of danger, some are scared of consequences, some are too stupid to live but bless their hearts they try. I'd almost rather have someone helping that will do what I tell them rather than some hotshot that thinks he can do it better. There are some good folks in most of the alphabet agencies. When I was with SORT and heavily involved in DMAT and Homeland Security I worked with some of the best......and unfortunately some that were just collecting a paycheck.
Gary.......
Belgians are high strung as hell. They will wear you out long before you wear them out. Some are hardheaded when they get the command and kinda don't want to give up the bone if you know what I mean. If you want a good guard dog go down to the pound and find a 6-9 month old Shep or lab/shep mix. Best traits of both plus pound-puppies appreciate their masters the moment they get out of jail. I'm looking at two right now to replace Sniper Mutt that died in May.
Fingers are tired, Bolt out!
Bolt
Waitin on the fat guy.........., NC, - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 21:33:05 (ZULU)
That's great news Joe, and Lindy, I hope they all three turn out great. I hope it's contagious too, cause I sure needed that encouragement right about now. I'm living your last year right now Joe, it sucks!
Your number's in my other phone Lindy, at work, I'll call you Wednesday when I get back there.
Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 21:35:55 (ZULU)
Joe I'm in shock to hear about Blake. I remember you telling stories about him and deer hunts like he was 14. I guess that's how I still picture him in my mind even though it's been several years of stories now.
'Lito I wish you the best and many prayers are going your way. It sucks that different judges can have such different views/judgements when presented with the same set of facts.
A public thanks here to Tony Burkes in Texas. He loaned me his .308 SCLE rifle to shoot in the Snipers Hide Cup (since I butchered mine into an A5 stocked .243 range queen). He actually gave it to me a month ago to train with until the match in March when I'll give it back with an additional thousand rounds down the tube. Not too many Texans would do this for some California guy they've never laid eyes on LOL.
Merry Christmas to all of the American warfighters overseas that can't be home right now. Thank you for what you do and for keeping our Christmas possible over here. I wish you all an early and safe return home to your families.
More prayers out to those and the families of those we lost this year.
God bless and Merry Christmas,
Marc
MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 22:07:53 (ZULU)
Click my name if "end-of-days economics" won't ruin your festive spirits.
If UBL and company wanted an economic hit on 9/11 (he did) and still target us in such ways---we seem to have offered him our throats. Question is---have we proven the negative? Is he too weakened to take a shot when it would hurt us the most? Or, is he ramping one up right now? I'd say if the central banks manage to get a handle on this before the next major AQ strike--then GWB's historical stock just went up to the highest levels. Stuff learned long after we are all dead will show how effective this GWOT may have been. On the other hand...this could suck giant eggs.
Joe M
Monday, December 24, 2007, at 22:40:36 (ZULU)
All the best for the new year.
sinister
Christmas R&R, Not in Baghdad, Iraq - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 22:58:44 (ZULU)
The worst thing we could do is further back the idiots in banking with the people's money. They are finally treating that green stuff as if they have some responsibility to see an ROI for the lending activity....loathesome, evil people they are...we should tax the crap out of them.....like say "30% flat"....that would really teach em' a lesson about what it's like to be middle class.
medicjim
Monday, December 24, 2007, at 22:59:14 (ZULU)
Jim & Dee
Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Monday, December 24, 2007, at 23:15:03 (ZULU)
comments@whitehouse.gov
Subject: Veto HR 2640 for the Veterans of America!
Dear Mr. President,
As a retired Officer of the United States Army, I urge you to veto H.R. 2640. This legislation has the potential to deprive me of my rights under the constitution; specifically, my right to enjoy my retirement pastime of target shooting. At issue is section 101(c)(1)(C), which provides the denial of my rights based solely on an administrative “review” of my private medical records held in the VA. In other words, if I have lost sleep after a combat engagement—I am subject to the loss of my constitutional rights without any further hearing or other due process. I am, in effect, guilty until I prove myself innocent. As a veteran of both Afghanistan and Iraq, I find it difficult to believe that I would have to write this letter in the first place. But for all the rhetoric against servicemen that emanates from the halls of congress, I really shouldn’t be surprised by this betrayal executed at the eleventh hour to avoid any scrutiny. My only recourse then is to plead my case to you; my Commander-in-Chief. I trust that you will do the right thing once you have the opportunity to read this terrible legislative insult to those who served!
Now, as far as PTSD goes, this diagnosis is experiencing major growth in response to several highly publicized (and subsequently politicized) cases. Regardless of whether PTSD is over-diagnosed or not, it is my firm belief that any and all normal human beings WILL in fact lose some sleep when they see the horror of innocents caught up on a modern battlefield. For my loss of sleep, as documented, comes from a specific sight in Baghdad; that of young children caught in a deadly blast of the terrorists’ carbomb. I respectfully submit that any American who witnesses such things will find themselves caught up in the injustice of this legislation. And I suspect that would be a majority of the combat arms servicemen involved in Afghanistan and Iraq since these wars began.
Please, Mr. President: Veto H.R. 2640 before it causes harm to those who stood up and defended these very rights!
In the constitution that we both swore an oath to defend, we find the right to due process. If I am to be judged for a loss of any right---I would expect to face my accuser in the justice system. This bill side-steps due process completely while merely offering me the recourse of “reimbursement” if and only if I finance a successful challenge on my own and out of pocket.
Conceivably, every soldier, sailor, marine and airman that went to war in Iraq will be similarly affected by this abysmal legislation. Do not allow this to happen. Do not do this for me or my letter---do so for the gallant men and women we both have seen in harms way; they deserve nothing less and so much more than society could ever give.
Force Congress to write this bill both constitutionally and fairly to those who defend the constitution; if indeed that is even possible. But do not allow this to become law as it is currently written. Too many servicemen will bear the brunt of its inherent injustice. And, in the America we know, this sort of unconstitutional power should not be allowed to exist.
For, as I go to bed tonight, I have the right to keep and bear arms. One morning, after this becomes law, I shall wake up suddenly without this right. No court will have acted. No verdict was to be read by a jury of my peers. No; it will happen because a law circumvented all guarantees enshrined in our constitution and categorically denies my rights based on bureaucratic whim! Do not let this come to pass, sir! Send this back for revision with your power of veto. I ask you on behalf of not just myself, but for those with whom I served in our war against terror.
Thank you,
Major (Retired) Joseph M
U.S. Army, Special Forces
Another article on this arbortion--click my name
Joe M
Monday, December 24, 2007, at 23:30:20 (ZULU)
It will make my day, my christmas, and my entire new year to see this thing squashed.
Thanks in advance for any help i get here:))
I'm feelin' a bit of activist' blood boiling over. If this shit passes, I will beat it down for myself. But ten years ago, with a big mortgage, kids, and less pay--I may not have been able to swing it. The young NCOs coming home now, checking blocks on VA forms, may not be able to take this on finacially. Reimbursement means you get money AFTER you sepnd your money...and only if "they" allow youto succeed. Or troops deserve so much more....and this is the shit they get? Schumer and his fellow travellers can kiss my irish ass! And the NRA-ILA participated in this abortion too. They are about to hear my displeasure, and whatever respectful tone I tried HARD to get in the whitehouse letter will be noticeably absent.
The NRA can kiss Schumer's ass while he is bent over smooching mine! It seems the NRA's already been there though. Man...sold out while giving good money....I feel stupid on top of everything else here.
Joe M
Monday, December 24, 2007, at 23:34:57 (ZULU)
"Gonna have a hell of a time finding a pistol that workie for a left handed right eye dominant woman type person."
I'm cross-dominant right-handed, the G17 works for me.
I've had sinister friends (incl women) who also like the Glocks.
(excl G20 and G21, BIG grip).
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, December 25, 2007, at 01:29:11 (ZULU)
Larry Vickers, one of the best 1911 gunsmiths around - though he now teaches carrying a Glock - and former instructor for 1st SFOD-D, also shoots right-handed using his dominant left eye.
Get the sights lined up on the target, and it works, if you press the trigger smoothly to the rear until the pistol fires.
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 25, 2007, at 03:05:16 (ZULU)
I truly do pray that it is GREAT for all the members here, Past, Present, and Future.
God Bless, Merry Christmas, and Stay Safe.
Sean T.
Winterpeg, Manisnowba, Canada - Tuesday, December 25, 2007, at 03:35:25 (ZULU)
Added Lots more photos to the photobucket for your viewing pleasure and entertainment... Sadly they(Photobucket) went Nazi on me and Delete a hundred or so select images... Shrug, oh well... But there are lots more pictures you might enjoy... Oh yeah Passwords the same.
Take care gents,
Morgue
Joe M,
Congratulations on the boy, glad to hear things are working out.
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff113/t_mourge/weapons/
Mourge
Overseas, - Tuesday, December 25, 2007, at 07:37:44 (ZULU)
RE:Hand-Eye Dominance,
When I was a kid and Dad was teachin me how to shoot a bow,I was Left Hand and Left Eye,But Dad was a Righty,he couldnt teach Lefty.So he had me shooting righty and using my right eye.Wich was one of the biggest favors he could have done for me.It more or less adapted me to be ambidextrous.Every once in awhile at the pistol range I spend up to 1/2 of my hour shooting left handed-left eye......As One Never Knows.
UnPat
UnPat
Wi, USA - Tuesday, December 25, 2007, at 08:15:10 (ZULU)
Next time you're down here in the people's republic of IL I'll try to arrange some (target) shooting or something. If you want "for real" shooting, pretty much head in any direction from where we were:)
The thing everyone needs to understand about police, fire, EMS, military, etc leadership types is that, above all else, they're almost always control freaks. Super hardcore, totally incurable micromanaging control freaks. IMO, it isn't that they don't think that the gen pop is incompetant or somehow unworthy or whatever, it's that they're uncontrolled, and that's absolutely terrifying for almost all of these bureaucrats who have found their way into "leadership" slots in our public institutions. If they're not in absolute charge of it, they're not going to use it.
Good luck, Lito.
Merry Christmas all, Happy Hannakuh too, if that's your thing. If you're of some other religion, well, Happy New Years;)
S/F....Ken M
Ken M
IL, USA - Tuesday, December 25, 2007, at 09:16:41 (ZULU)
WR Moore
Tuesday, December 25, 2007, at 12:27:32 (ZULU)
whose forms are bending low,
Who toil along the climbing way
with painful steps and slow,
Look now! For glad and golden hours
come swiftly on the wing:
O rest beside the weary road,
and hear the angels sing!
Yet with the woes of sin and strife,
the world has suffered long
Beneath the heavenly strain have rolled
two thousand years of wrong;
And man, at war with man, hears not
the tidings that they bring;
O hush the noise, ye men of strife,
and hear the angels sing!
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 25, 2007, at 12:58:28 (ZULU)
For those prone to spewing on the keyboard, get one of the silicone, flat ones like I'm using now. They'll even work underwater, in sandstorms and with coffee/saliva on them. Going to come in handy in the near future. ArmorGroup picked me up for the ESF in Kabul. Looks as if I'll be wheels up 1st of March. Haven't been deployed in over 22 years, this ought to be a hoot. Joe....a retired Marine Gunnery Sgt. concurs with your security analysis, down to the traffic circle. Oh well...
Well, Merry Christmas to all of you. For those who don't understand CHRISTmas.....have a nice day. I'm off to work. Ya'll have a great day, and enjoy it with someone you love.
P.S. Boudica and I are back together. God answers prayer, guys......
Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, December 25, 2007, at 15:46:02 (ZULU)
A Merry CHRISTmas to you all. Hope this day is/was all you had hoped and prayed for, and that all your prayers for the future will come true. And, above all, remember the Reason for the Season.
Marius
Marius
Tuesday, December 25, 2007, at 18:19:44 (ZULU)
Canada accuses Iran of being weapons pipeline
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=196918
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, December 25, 2007, at 20:01:21 (ZULU)
Merry Christmas to all. May the blessings of the Lord be upon you and yours this holiday season.
Wes
weshowe
Salem, OR, USA - Tuesday, December 25, 2007, at 20:17:57 (ZULU)
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 01:09:51 (ZULU)
Mr. Hunt, keep your head down over there
S/F
Kush
Kush
Havelock, NC, - Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 01:59:05 (ZULU)
To all in harms way, Be Safe!!
JLU
Joe Udelhofen
Oconomowoc, WI, USA - Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 02:05:45 (ZULU)
Hawgs -- Merry Christmas. May the Lord Bless each of you and your families.
Let's keep up the prayers for our Troops in the box and our folks on the line here @ Home....
Take care all --
Ken
Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 03:47:46 (ZULU)
Merry Christmas, and a happy new year.
For those on watch: Godspeed, WY6.
This is a great gang here: I've prayed for many, and been prayed for in my hour of need. Prayers continue. Damn, what a great bar!
Bill
SSG Mac
Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 11:24:34 (ZULU)
Hope everyone got all the powder, primers, bullets, brass, SMKs, scenars, dies, scales, scopes, uppers, barrels, bottoms, stocks, and sand bags that they wanted for Christmas.
Rod glad you liked the movie. I think more people would like it if they watched it for what it is, and didn't look for leans, slants, or sides. "BASED on actual events"
Eye dominance I can't count the number of people I trained for thier handgun carry course, or how many weak hand stages I've shot in ISPC. If the sights are lined up the bullets gonna hit the target. I shoot both eyes open, and if she can do that it would be best. If not sights on target still works. Hand guns aren't like rifles that are gonna slap hot brass in your face when shooting wrong handed for the particular weapon. I shoot 1911's exclusively now, and have for years, but for someone new I wouldn't hesitate to recomend a Glock. Pull trigger, gun goes bang. No safties to push, or grips to grip correctly. When under stress, you need muscle memory for those, and as you all know, that only comes with lots of practice. Personal recomendation a 23, it's a good mix of weight, power, capacity, and concealability. I may be biased as it's the only carry gun I've had that wasn't a 1911. This is IMHO with over 600 rounds a week just for the 4 years I shot competitively with 1911's. Doesn't include the years before and after competiting, and extras while teaching. = 36 ED Brown barrels, not including the ones that came with the guns.
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 14:23:10 (ZULU)
36 aftermarket barrels? How many rounds per barrel were you getting?
Seems low for 600*52*4 = 124800 rds in practice + unspecified for matches.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 18:05:57 (ZULU)
I own an older Kimber Gold Match 1911 that I plan to become re-acquanted with in the near future. I'll be shooting it weekly with a couple buddies.
I need to buy three or four extra mags for this thing and haven't a clue what to buy... Help me out here guys.. I'll be doing a boat load of shooting with this thing and want good mags at a fair price... Any recommended mods (read 'necessary') to the pistol would be appreciated as well.
medicjim
Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 18:06:19 (ZULU)
That and lots of ammo should be all you need. Shoot like crazy. Perhaps that's a poor choice of words.....let me rephrase that! Shoot the hell out of it and have fun. My Kimber has been a joy to own and shoot.
Ken I'll drop you an email tomorrow sometime.
Geoff M
WI, USA - Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 18:51:20 (ZULU)
click my name for link
medicjim
Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 19:03:03 (ZULU)
Darren
Semper Fi
Darren
Bay Area, CA, USA - Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 20:17:45 (ZULU)
I think I need a "remedial 1911 mag course" ... how do you fit a 10 round magazine in a well that normally holds a 7 round mag? I'm really clueless here... do you use the extra length as a mag extension?
Further, are there other options for 8 round mags from wilson other than the 47d model you mention? Are they using a spring inferior to wolf or is this just a function of the mag design, to be factored in as a yearly expense? Does it make better sense to buy the McCormick mags vs replacing the wilson springs?
Most of the folks on this site seem to have been IDPA shooters in a past life, and as such come to the bar with a wealth of knowledge on the subject. I am the world's worst pistol shot and have no training or experience at all.... with the advent of my second child looming on the horizon (due in June), I have joined a local pistol club and plan to make it a weekly ritual as this may be my sole recreation for the forseeable future.
medicjim
Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 20:54:13 (ZULU)
For what it's worth, I've used wilson 7 round mags since their inception with zero problems.. Have some 8 rounders also but don't use them as much; dito for the 10 rounders. Other than that, back in the late 70s or early 80s I acquired a bunch of satin nickle Colt mags that are as reliable as the Wilsons in all my guns. Enjoy IDPA; It's become a home for many of us old IPSC shooters...
outa here
Markwell
markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 21:28:51 (ZULU)
Change the springs in the 47Ds every 2,000 rounds, and you'll be fine with them - but I prefer the added reliability of 7-round magazines on the street.
I also have some of those Colt satin-nickel 7 round mags, which are extremely reliable.
Now I carry a Glock with 14 rounds in the magazine - and I change those out regularly with Wolff springs, too, and I change the striker spring at the same time.
Springs are cheap, and it's a good idea to replace them regularly.
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 23:06:08 (ZULU)
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/NYW02426122007-1.htm
Cheers,
Doc
Doc Holloway
The rainy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, December 26, 2007, at 23:22:52 (ZULU)
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=44d94f6e-11cd-46b6-84c4-3f48d8df838b
Has a happy ending for the non-wolf participants.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 01:20:01 (ZULU)
Cerebrus owns Remington, DPMS, Cobb and Bushmaster (along with Chrysler)
Does Sara Brady control Cerebrus?
medicjim
Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 02:09:30 (ZULU)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus_Capital_Management
Cerberus Capital Management LP is one of the largest private equity investment firms in the USA. The firm is based in New York City, and run by 47-year-old financier Steve Feinberg. Former Vice President Dan Quayle has been a prominent Cerberus spokesperson and runs one of its international units.
and
Firearms - Acquired Bushmaster Firearms, Inc., from Windham, Maine native Dick Dyke for an undisclosed sum in April 2006, and purchased Remington Arms in April 2007. Under Cerberus direction, Bushmaster Firearms acquired Cobb Manufacturing, a well-respected manufacturer of large-caliber tactical rifles in August 2007. Cerberus also announced the acquisition of DPMS Panther Arms in December 2007.[5]
I doubt that the owners would permit spending serious money on firearm companies just to shut them down.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 02:25:03 (ZULU)
What I meant to say was "hmmmm, there seems to be a effort afoot to consolidate a large number of the privately owned firearms manufacturers under one 'holding entity'. These big capital entities have been known to file down talent, load companies up with debt and leave them pale and hollow once the profit has been sucked out."
medicjim
Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 02:31:48 (ZULU)
I take some comfort in this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus_Capital_Management
The company has been a voracious acquirer of businesses over the past several years and now includes sizable investments in sportswear, paper products, military services, real estate, energy, retail, glassmaking, transportation, and building products. Its holdings amounted to $24 billion in 2006.
While many of its peers have bought out companies in order to strip assets and sell on for a profit, Cerberus builds its reputation on identifying firms that are undervalued, and assisting in rejuvenating them by working with current management.[2]
You'll notice in the acquisition announcements that most of the current CEOs are kept on.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 02:41:13 (ZULU)
I been using the Wilson 8 rounders, black with the low profile steel base pad (47DCB) in my Colt for about 3 years so far, no feed problem as of yet. Don't use the 10 rounders, they stick out too far to carry. Had stacks of Colt 7 rounders that I pilfered from my MEUSOC days, tossed them cuz they brought the suck after a using them a while.
Linky to what I'm using these days: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=982908&t=11082005
S/F
Kush
Kush
Havelock, NC, - Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 03:06:43 (ZULU)
Well no shit.
CDC'
Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 03:09:15 (ZULU)
This oughta make playing "fetch" a little more interesting.
Medicjim,
7 and 8 round mags are generally the same length. The follower is just shorter on the 8 rounder. I never tried to do it, but I suppose you could trim the follower in the 7 round mag to make it an 8. The 10 rounders stick out of the bottom of your gun a couple inches.
I was just on midwayusa.com, and noticed they now carry 15 rounders for my Sig 220. Anyone tried them?
CDC-
Well put. Kinda like the parable of the frog and the scorpion. It's just his nature.
Joe M.,
Got the card. Thanks. Looks like a big, happy, healthy family ya got there. My wife said she figured you'd be older, having that many kids. I asked her what she thought you did as soon as you got home after being deployed. She got it, then.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 04:11:11 (ZULU)
I need to correct something you said (typed?).
You are the world's SECOND worst pistol shot. I'm the worst and I have the pristine targets to prove it. ;-))
BTW, Wilson Combat mags are excellent mags.
jc
jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 05:01:49 (ZULU)
Joe M
Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 07:02:44 (ZULU)
I'm also a fan of the Wilson 8 round mags. I've never had a feed problem with them. The only problem was one of them wouldn't lock the slide open after the last round. A new Wolff spring cured that.
Gary Kaney,
A little dog info. We had to put down our twelve year old Alaskan Malamute in October. Michelob weighed 126 pounds and intimidated a lot of people. The only thing he ever attacked was his food dish; but nobody knew that. The wife didn't want another long-haired dog so we settled on an American Mastiff. Her father weighs 185 pounds and her mother goes 150. At 9 weeks she weighs 21 pounds! They are a very gentle breed; but the size factor will still be there.
Cheers,
Doc
Doc Holloway
The foggy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 14:46:11 (ZULU)
Read up on brachiocephalic dogs...they need some special care. Diet, heat tolerance and respiratory diseases would be what you want to focus on.
My boxer was a wonderful pet...hope your new buddy works out as well.
medicjim
Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 15:01:07 (ZULU)
Medic Jim, the 7 round are reliable from Wilson. It is the 8 round magazines that develop issues later down the road due to its springs. Overall though, I like the Wilson 8 round. Perform a search and you will find all sorts of complaints about the spring. So far the 10 round magazines from Chip have been performing as expected. One word of advice, number your magazines, but I have to assume you know that already.
Tidbit more information: If you look at the old GI magazine, the follow has a dimple in it. There is a reason for it. Current manufactures changes the angle of the follower to mimic the dimple on the old GI magazine as to, well, it is probably better you read below
Click on my name for the M1911 Org Forum.
Update: Just checked Wolff web site and damn, they are selling springs for Wilson now - this is news to me :-) I will be ordering more springs for my Wilson. Oh, the problem was not a fail to feed but a fail to lock the slide back. Once again, the replacement springs fixed this problem. Never had a fail to feed or type 1, 2 or 3 malfunction with the Wilson 47D mags, cross my fingers and rub my lucky rabbit foot :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
URL: http://forum.m1911.org/archive/index.php/t-11580.html
1911Tuner
20th December 2004, 08:04
I think this one's been posted somewhere...but it bears repeating. El Comandante may delete at a later time if he deems it best to do so.
Inertia! Just no way to get around Newton's Laws regarding motion.
Remember the old trick of jerking a tablecloth out from under a table setting? This is the principle at work here.
We have a round in the chamber and one round in the magazine.
Bang! The slide starts to move as the pistol torques up and back. The slide holds the last round slightly below the feeding position until it moves far enough to uncover it. Just as the magazine spring is struggling to move the round into position, the round is in a sort of "Limbo" while the pistol continues to move backward in recoil. The round obeys Newton, and stands still while the gun is moving away from it.
The magazine spring catches up, and gets the round up and into the underside of the feed lips, but because the pistol pulled backward away from it (Even though the pressure from the slide drags the round backward in the magazine)...it settles down forward of the feeding position. At this point, if the magazine spring is strong enough to keep it there, the slide pushes it ahead of the extractor. The pistol either fails to go to battery with the round fully chambered, and the front of the extractor rammed against the back of the rim. Extractor breakage is an eventuality.
If the spring isn't strong enough, the round is forward of optimum feeding position just as the slide smacks the impact surface in the frame, and triggers a second recoil impulse. The gun makes a short, hard jerk upward and backward...and the round is in limbo once more because the mass of the round has caused the magazine spring to compress slightly. The round...already too far forward in the magazine...jumps the follower, and is free of the magazine. The follower pushes the slidestop up as the slide moves forward, and the slide locks. If the magazine spring is weak enough, the next to last round will be ejected from the magazine, and the last round feeds. Ever found live ammo among your brass? Heeere's yer sign!
The problem is two-fold. One is the spring that has fewer coils to make room for the extra round. There is ample tension to feed until it gets to the last round...and tension is at a mimimum...but sometimes it can happen before the last round. Upping the spring rate helps, but doesn't address the other issue.
The other part of the problem is the smooth follower. Browning knew how
inertia would affect things, and he put a small dimple on the top of the magazine follower. The dimple's function is two-fold. It adds a small amount of height to the follower in order to give it a "Leg Up"...and it stops the forward movement of the round. More accurately, it keeps the pistol from moving out from under the round in recoil. In this function, it's basically a back-up for the spring as it fatigues, and provides a better opportunity for the round to stay in position to be stripped from the magazine by the slide instead of being pushed ahead of it...or... in the extreme cases, escaping from the magazine completely.
John Moses designed a 7-round magazine and he put a dimple on the follower for very good reasons. Whenever we try to change things in order to "improve" the gun...we very often cause problems. There just ain't no such thing as a free lunch, I'm 'fraid.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Darren
Semper Fi
Darren
Bay Area, CA, USA - Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 15:05:17 (ZULU)
medicjim
Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 15:29:17 (ZULU)
My son has an English Bulldog and I know all the problems they have. I wouldn't have thought that an American Mastiff could have those problems as well. She doesn't appear to have a shortened nose or bulging eyes. It never ceases to amaze me what you can learn at this bar! ;o)
Cheers,
Doc
Doc Holloway
The foggy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 16:06:06 (ZULU)
Thanks for the update! The Colt mags I have that work have the follower with that dimple. Thanks for the information about them!
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 17:47:12 (ZULU)
Darren
Darren
Bay Area, CA, USA - Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 18:26:04 (ZULU)
Wilson 7 round magazines seemed to be the most reliable to me. The Wilson 8 rounders worked well if the pistol was set for them.
Wilson ten rounders are reliable but stick way out of mag well.
Chips 10 rounds work well but the extention piece breaks under alot of use and can jam in weapon
Other mags that work well at stock Colt.
All in all I think Wilsons are the way to go.
Mike/Undude
MikeMiller
Ca, - Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 22:25:43 (ZULU)
Pakistan's former Prime Minister (and opposition party leader) Benazir Bhutto was assassinated Thursday.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/12/27/pakistan.bhutto/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, December 27, 2007, at 23:03:15 (ZULU)
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=326272
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, December 28, 2007, at 00:40:16 (ZULU)
Rod Almost 1 a month, probably 5000 rounds. The 600 was only my morning pratice 6 days a week. It's low, but who complains when you've got sponsors. My boss's kid sat at our Lee progressive all day on Saturdays loading for us. Also on the monthly replacement list; all springs, slide lock, and ambi-safety. You'd be suprised at how fast ambi's bend/wear loose where they fit together. Buffers weekly, and anything else when it needed it.
jc for some reason I can't see you not being able to shoot a pistol, especially with all the matches that MSSA used to have. I'm ready to go shooting again, but I've gotta wait till hunting season's over cause I want to pull my Leup off my 300 and put it on the .308 first. Thanks again.
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Friday, December 28, 2007, at 05:11:27 (ZULU)
Gooch out
Kent Gooch
Hot Springs, AR, - Friday, December 28, 2007, at 09:19:32 (ZULU)
I went ahead and ordered a BOHICA arms 50 cal upper.... Yeah, Yeah, I know what it stands for... LOL It looks pretty good and had some good reviews besides a 50 cal under 1k seemed like pretty good deal, they are back ordered enough that it won't ship out till march, so there are a few other people out there who are interested as well...
On another note has anyone had any experience with a 50 cal Beowulf? Everything I have read about it makes it sound like a pretty decent caliber, I'm interested in hearing what you gents think about it.
hope you had a merry xmas and your New Years is looking good...
Cya,
Morgue
Mourge
Overseas, - Friday, December 28, 2007, at 09:39:26 (ZULU)
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Friday, December 28, 2007, at 14:02:54 (ZULU)
At this point I am going to go with the Lapua brass. I have heard that it is better brass for reloading because its thicker in certain areas than some of the other brass out there. As for bullets, I think I am going to wait till I get back to see what works best but I am leaning towards the Barnes 250 grain Triple-Shock X-Bullets. I was reading somewhere that Comi-fornia has passed some law about shooting Lead bullets in certain areas...
I also was reading that to stabilize the 300 grain a 1:10 twist rate would be best. For some reason someone was saying that the 1:12 wasn't quite right, I don't know how true it is, but i also read somewhere that the 1:10 did a better job Stabilizing a greater variety of bullets than the 1:12... Anyone know how true this is?
I've been reading up on the Beowulf on a couple other sites. The only complaint I have heard so far is that without the proper butt pad it beats the heck out of your shoulder... LOL...
Definitely a specialty weapon, not what you would want to carry in an everyday primary roll, just consider the magazine capacity...IMHO
As for an entry gun, hell I think it would do for all sorts of missions... Stopping an engine, taking doors off, feral hogs...
BWG... I don't think you will be disappointed with TRG-42. I am going to say on it is if I had it all to do over again I would seriously have looked at getting the model with the folding stock. The difference in price is less than if you were to buy the folding stock as an after thought like I would have to do. I bought the muzzle break and it doesn't dissappoint, I don't really care which kind you go for, the Sako or an aftermarket, but get a muzzle break. It takes mine down enough that side by side with a Remy 300 winmag with out a break, the 300WM kicks noticably more. IMHO
Morgue
Mourge
overseas, - Friday, December 28, 2007, at 14:53:38 (ZULU)
From the Department of Redundancy Department: Might be picking up another Hogue-Howa M1500 in .308, this time with a Burris Xtreme Tac (3-12? it is in that range, with the mildots).
Ya know, the more ya speak with Bravo--the more ya start thinking he's on to something. I like a wide variety of calibers to tinker with...but i am wondering--is it time to consolidate around a select few calibers and stock up? I sorta do this already---.45acp, .223 and .308 being the most prolific cases in the west...but I am distracted with .45LC, .270, 30-06, 300WM, 40SW, 6.5swede, 260rem (which may be one to also focus on), etc. It eats my cash feeding all these, while true "stockpiles" never really seem to accumulate. I now regret all those years of FGM 168s...I keep it once-fired anyway--"emergency brass" IMHO, but still, I shoulda found BHs sooner. I think I will implement a 1/4--3/4 rule: For every odd caliber buy, I make 3 of the choice calibers. Let's see how bad i screw this up. Anyway--my New Years' resolution is to build a sustainable stockage of 308 and 556! I shall toast that to Bruce after the toast du jour.
We're trying to rescue a Lab from the humane society. The bunny-kill incident is on their records, so we have to beg. I'm on my way there now. Wife called and said, "now watch what you say there...these people are not like us." Ha! No kidding. It is liberal hell in that place! War is not the answer, Bush lied and all that crap on every bumper. But I told her--I am a victim in their eyes, just a poor, unwitting sap used by the bushcheneyneoconwarhawks! If I don't puke first, I should get the dog. Heheh. Liberals are so smart...and that makes it easy to manipulate the hell out of them. Dumbasses:))
Travis: Still interested...and have the name of the long hauler that drives by you when the time comes!
Joe M
Friday, December 28, 2007, at 18:06:11 (ZULU)
Joe M., agree with Bravo, too. While my hunting calibers may be non-standard all of my serious stuff is either 9mm/.40/.45 or .223/.308. There's a lot to be said for ammo commonality.
Hope you get the lab. Wait to puke on the liberal bastards until after you have taken possession of the pooch. If he's really a good one he'll hike his leg on them at the same time you puke...kinda gives me a clear mental image.
Morgue, When George built my .338 L we used a 1:10" twist. I would recommend that if you plan to shoot Sierra 300 grain SMK's.
Wilson Mags: Have used them for years and been very happy. That's what's in my carry guns. However, I just ordered some new Wilson mags and they are not made to the same standard. Where the old mags had a brushed finish and no visible weld line the do not have the brushed finish and the weld line is visible. Only have one trip to the range with them and so far so good. Really ticked me off, though. I was half tempted to call and see if these had been outsourced to China...
The killing of former PM Bhutto in Pakistan is really going to screw up the works. Shit like this makes me think if they can't get along with each other why should we care? If it weren't for the fact that I know where all this is headed I'd say pack our toys and go home...
Unfortunately, I don't see that as an option now or at any point in the near future.
Survived Xmas and even got the fuzzy slippers I wanted. Life is good.
Semper Fi,
Sir Wes
Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Friday, December 28, 2007, at 19:00:33 (ZULU)
OK...no sense in banging my head on a liberal door: They denied my wife due to the two "at large" dog calls over the last five years (breached chainlink)---and had I applied prior to their checking, I could have adopted on my name. But not now--they are on to us. Heheh, those two at-large incidents resulted in some seriously dead bunnies. What i do not understand is how can they say "had you applied, we would have approved it since YOU are not listed in our records adversely..."---the whole point was to give a home to a dog facing destruction. Well, to bad. My Peanut wants a Lab, so it is off to the kennels. I found unregistered for $75, and I will look for mixes in the paper too. The only real hurry up til now was to save a dog...man, you'd think they'd cut a woman a break with four kids, a farm, a job, and a husband deployed???
Joe M
Friday, December 28, 2007, at 19:25:44 (ZULU)
She had made earlier statements that it is against Islam to target a woman. Even if true, I doubt her enemies felt compelled to play by the rules :-(
Concur she was living on borrowed time, not clear that she had a plan to capitalize on her almost inevitable death by assasination. She had already survived one serious attempt shortly after she arrived in-country, the writing was on the wall if she continued to appear in public.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, December 28, 2007, at 22:50:54 (ZULU)
You might try checking with some of the local small-town vets. My vet has a bulletin board in his office that always has free puppies/dogs listed.
Cheers,
Doc
Doc Holloway
The cloudy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, December 28, 2007, at 23:11:26 (ZULU)
We are thinking of building Brock a rifle; maybe a .260...Your input would be appreciated. Bullets used, velocity, comeups @ 500 & 1k???? Is it worth it in your opinion??
We will miss seeing you in the Spring..Rod and I will be in Montana varminting for May and June.. Gopher shooting 'til the grass and crops get to high and then prairie dogs. Taking all the steel down for maintanance(sp??)in prep for August.
outa here
markwell
the Alleghenies , WV, - Friday, December 28, 2007, at 23:48:25 (ZULU)
Morgue The quicker twist rates are needed to stabilize the heavier bullets. A lot of the benchrest shooters want the slowest twist rate that will stabilize THE ONE particular bullet that they will be shooting. The idea is that going any faster than necessary will cost them accuracy, but we're talking 1/10's of minutes here. Real world shooting, we're not gonna notice 1 inch at a thousand. If you're gonna shoot a variety you'll want to get a twist that will stabilize the heaviest you might shoot. Have you noticed any accuracy difference with/without the break. I'm planning on getting one, but was curious. Depending on the spring flying season I'll probably go all out and get all the options. I've got to buy a Night Force 3.5x15 to replace the Leup on my 300RUM that I'm moving to my .308 because it's got too much power for hunting. I had a big buck behind my stand, up close, and before I could find him in the scope he was gone. 6.5 x 20's great when they are in an open field but sucks when they are 20yds in thick brush. I haven't decided what to put on the .338. Probably a 5.5x22x50 since all I'll be shooting with it is targets. Maybe even an 8x32x56 since all the targets will be a long way away.
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 02:19:48 (ZULU)
Newest project is upgrading a three season room to four. It is easy, actually: just knock a hole in the wall and double vent the existing duct and seal up the older windows---then open the door. Instant puppy room.
markwell: Blake's first centerfire was a .260 youth. I think it is a fine choice (but I'd not buy another Model seven remmy:))--and so far, I like it in my AR pattern rifle too. I'm thinking I'd have a riffle built for that cartridge if i start hitting the comps. 6.5mm bullets enjoy a wide selection thanks to our Euro-friends too. Accurate, decent game round for most animals in the lower 48 (some might say all), easy on the shoulder, good selection of bullets---but one thing to know ahead of time: Brass is sporadic on the market. Get what ya can when ya can. Remmington factory ammo is easy to find---and there is little other choice in brass anyway. By hook and crook, I gathered a thou from spring to summer this year. I had to shoot some 400 rounds of fodder to get there though:((
Joe M
Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 03:09:15 (ZULU)
Has anyone shot there? Either place. Anyone do any hunting there? On the Kokohead web site they do mention a 5 rd limit to rifle mags,the exception being a Garand.And .50 BMG is a no-no.I've checked over the DLNR site and cant find anything regarding max mag cap. Is there a limit on mag capacity for hunting? They seemed to be real specific about handgun hunting,but not much mentioned on rifles.I have a real hard time thinking I cant hunt w/my DPMS LR308,as they only have sheep,goats and pigs,axis and blacktailed deer.
I was able to find that according to Hawaii State Law mags are limited to 10 rds,On the Hawaii Rifle Association site.
Any info would be appreciated.
UnPat
UnPat
Wi, USA - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 03:33:25 (ZULU)
Stuff I've read is that Hawaii has some similarities to California's laws and mindset on firearm ownership. Not a good state for handguns, I believe they have registration and permits required for same. I believe Hawaii is a "may issue", not a "shall issue" CCW state. Magazine capacity limits too. You described the game animal opportunities I had read about pretty well. Probably not a good place for long-range marksmenship unless you can get access to military ranges.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 05:03:38 (ZULU)
Pups' eyes mostly open now. They're getting around pretty well, too. Last two mornings, I've awoken to the sound of a puppy lost in the living room, doing their "car alarm" interpretation early in the morning. Sure are cute little bastards.
What's the "bunny" incident?
Unpat,
Fuck it. Put a target on a buoy. You can shoot whatever distance you want.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 05:27:31 (ZULU)
OK, here's what i read so far: You will have 72 hours to register any firarms you bring in (less antiques). This is done at the Honolulu Police Station, 801 South Beretania St (529-3371). each firearm is to be presented at the time of registration along with proper ID, source of aquisition (proof?) and you will sign a medical records release. The only good news is this body cavity search that includes fingerprinting will not cost you a dime.
There are a zillion military installations on the islands, each will have a degree of security and control over who comes and goes--Pearl is probably the tightest. Kanehoe (sp) on the windward side is USMC, Schofield pretty-much centers Oahu; they all have ranges that are intermittantly available for recreational shooting. Range Control falls under DPTM at the Garrison Headquarters, and that is where you should look for more and betterer info. I saw nothing that says a civilian can't shoot there--or that only soldiers can. Most likely, you'll need to befriend a GI with similar hobbies. I invited friends along over the years who were not in uniform with no problems on many installations. Basically, the schofield book says that you request a given shooting facility 14 day in advance thru DPTM (director of plans, training and mobilizations), and then sign for, set up (plug in the phone they give you and hang a flag), shoot til you can't take it, then call for an inspection, pack up, turn in and go. Based on what i read--there isn't a Formal rod and gun club like Bragg has---but that most ranges are available. IIRC, they have several small arms ranges on the west end (up to 105mm was fired over that way), with pop-ups, pistol, KD, 1000yd MG courses, and tire houses for those inclined to live fire CQBs (I'll also bet that isn't one they'll let you sign over:)). Alaska (also USARPAC) was the same--you could take whatever was available, be it KD or whatnot.
Hawaii ,akes calofornia look gun-friendly. And that is no lie. You'll need to look at HRS chapter 134-HawaiiDangerous weapons and prohibited Items Statutes; google the terms. It would suck to drag something to the cops that will land you a class C felony, a grand fine, and a year in the pokey, eh?
I'm too tired to dig deeper tonight. I'll email ya with my email off the roster, and I'll stop wasting bandwidth before i re-write this 7MB book.
But not before these enlightening tidbits:
Trampoline use is prohibited for persons under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
Chippies will not wear transparent clothing. Didn't say anything about completely nude though:))
No running thru housing areas and singing about war before 0630hrs:))
(my wife would shoot them before 8, I think)
Skateboarders will observe a 20mph speed limit on all roads and sidewalks
They even create age brackets and time limits for children to be left alone (10-16, no more than 24 hours---my kids would sell the house if i gave thme more than five minutes).
Heheh....reading this welcome packets reminds me why I retired:))
Joe M
WI, Snow , Belt - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 07:02:03 (ZULU)
That suggestion makes the most sense.LOL...Thanx for the laugh.
Joe,Rod,
Thanx for the info.
I did alot of digging around on the Hawaii Rifle Association Site,and alot of reading between the lines too.Seen that bit about the 72 hr registration and about CCW too...This part really got me.Possesion of a 20 rd mag for the LR 308 is a misdemeanor, But the original 13 rd mag for her Browning BDA .380 IN the gun and loaded would be a Felony...and like ya said fines,jail. So that is one piece that cant go.I can get 10rd AR10 mags,but Browning BDA or Berretta Model 81,may not be all that easy to find,now.
The guidelines listed on deadly force was interesting,too.So was the CCW permit for civilians.Your free to shoot if someone is tryin to cause bodily harm,but you cant have the paper to protect yourself.Oh,and....City Police automatically arrest in the event of a Self Defense Homocide.
I guess they got a thing against slapping cuffs on a dead body...So that means I get arrested for defending her or myself.Nice little gotchya there.:(
Hunting licenses are dirt cheap for a resident?.....I thought it read $10 per animal? Goat$10,Feral Hog$10...etc.That is if I read that right...I was in power scanning mode lookin more for weapon restrictions.The only Rifle restriction I found was a muzzle energy of 1,200...Right off the top of my head I thought,Hell the Ol' '94 .30-30 has that beat,till I got further down the pages and seen it was all on a Lottery System.Then I found the 10 rd mag rule.:(
Beef,Dairy,poultry. All flown in from Nazi-fornia? Hate to see what a gallon of milk will run...Not to mention a pound of Cheddar.Sounds like a good ol'fashioned cheeseburger is gonna be treat.
Its lookin more and more as a nice place to visit....but not a good place for me to live long term.
Unpat
UnPat
Wi, USA - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 09:10:55 (ZULU)
E-Mail inbound (308)
Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 11:32:55 (ZULU)
E mail Inbound.
UnPat
UnPat
Wi, USA - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 13:13:13 (ZULU)
Unpat They've got a pretty good cattle industry there somewhere in the islands. Unless they're shipping them live to the mainland for slaughter and then shipping back, beef shouldn't be that bad. There was actually a TV show called Cowboy University shot at one of the ranches. Travis may remember seeing it. Hunting liscenses may be cheap but hunting land permission may be hard to find, and that's the reason I won't take higher paying jobs in AR or LA. I'm a whitetail addict. I flew in AR for a few summers but always had to come home for the winter. Now that I'm married, my wife prefers me to live with her year round and work here too. If I can get a contractor job for the next winter though, I may just have to sell off the cows and go.
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 15:02:26 (ZULU)
One of my pet peeves with safety-nazi style regs (like no rock climbing at Shafter) is the ban on headphones while running. I like my "bubble" while out on my own--and everyone bans it, though some leave open a loophole of "while on roads." I run cross country then! I had several routes at Arifjan that exploited this loophole, though I was the only one who actually reads regs--I had many an argument with busy-body REMFs on my runs with headphones. My main beef: They allow deaf folks to run without restrictions. WTF? If my running "hearing impaired" is a safety hazard--then man-up and challenge the Amercians with Disabilities Act by banning running for ALL hearing impaired! Nobody else ever saw the disconnect that had PC override one safety issue. I guess I was just a trouble maker.
This new pup is kewl. Peanut named her "Cocoa" after all. I took one look at her, and added Bear to that. She is a shiny dark reddish brown, with a frame like a bear cub. She's a bruiser. Right now, she is laying on my feet with Louie (the spaniel); she misses her 10 brothers and sisters yet and whimpers alot--but she is adjusting to the new place just fine. In fact, both pups are doing great on the outdoor thing. I have a string of bells on the backdoor--I am teaching them to paw the bell to get outside. Did this before--and it is a great thing. Anyway, very few accidents. Being home sure makes it easy as heck to train!
My 4 year old redhead tried to wash a cat yesterday...she won't be trying that again:))
Joe Mahon
Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 19:33:34 (ZULU)
308 IT IS. Nice thing about the 308 cartridge is that it can be necked down to the 260 . Lake City Match i have 1500 plus on hand. The thing of it was,i was putting to much thought into what i really wanted. I am going with the 20" barrel though. Thank you to both you and Joe M. for your input.
Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 19:50:46 (ZULU)
[extract]
The United Nations is joining forces with Marvel Comics — creators of "Spider-Man" and "The Incredible Hulk" — in an effort to revive the U.N.'s troubled image.
The joint effort is supposed to result in a comic book showing the international body working with superheroes to solve bloody conflicts and rid the world of disease.
The comic will be distributed free to 1 million U.S. schoolchildren and will be set in a war-torn fictional country. The U.N. then hopes to translate the comic into other languages and distribute it worldwide.
Former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. and staunch critic John Bolton tells FOX News: "I'd like to know who's paying for this comic episode."
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 19:57:01 (ZULU)
.308 Win w/20" brl is a nice trade-off point. You won't be sorry.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 19:59:36 (ZULU)
What they don't take into account is how loud you set your audio.
For example, I walk with headphones, but I can still hear the tire noise of passing vehicles with the levels I use. I like keeping my hearing. Of course it's also possible to set the volume so high that you aren't going to hear anything short of nearby gunfire or explosions. Kind of the difference between using sunglasses and a blindfold when walking. But the concept of common sense is not in the safety nazi's playbook, it all has to be stark black or white.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 20:09:38 (ZULU)
Last time I was at TQ, there was no running with headphones, reflective belts, tuck in your PT shirt, etc when on the roads. So the Army unit there came up with a great idea. They made an enclosed 1/4 mile running track right next to the cans all done up with Hesco and jersey barriers lining the track. Great SAFE way to run with the IPOD rocking. Still, you had the belt-fed REMF nazis coming out on the track trying to give you crap for headphones and no reflective belts. And you try to explain the reasoning behind an enclosed track, but it falls on deaf ears. You get the "well, it's the camp rules" kind of garbage.
For me, my running time was my alone time after working 16 hours, 5-7 of them in the cockpit.
Just want to tell them to leave me be!
S/F
Kush
Kush
Havelock, NC, - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 20:28:38 (ZULU)
What is the difference between these magazines:
1911 Government
1911 Officers
1911 Commander
Thanks in advance. :8-p
Duman
Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 21:06:48 (ZULU)
"The thing of it was,i was putting to much thought into what i really wanted."....So easy to do.So many flavors,Never enough cash and I'll take one of everything...LOL. E mail in bound.
Joe M,
Congrats on the pup,Slipped my mind.Hope the 4yr old didnt get clawed bad.
Jeff C,
Thanks for the input on cattle,Yeah we are learning real quick.
The missus says the only way she is parting with the BDA.380 is for a S&W 3913LS....Something tells me,right after we hit the first beach,I am gonna regret teaching her how to shoot.
Thanks again
UnPat
UnPat
Wi, USA - Saturday, December 29, 2007, at 22:38:42 (ZULU)
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Dec28/0,4670,LithiumBatteriesTravel,00.html
The limit is two batteries per passenger.
The ban affects shipments of non-rechargeable lithium batteries,
such as those made by Energizer Holdings Inc. and Procter & Gamble Co.'s Duracell brand.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 01:20:13 (ZULU)
I would never voluntarily move to a place that won't "let" me have 20-rd mags. Or reflexively arrest me for shooting a person trying to kill me. I don't even like Hawaii, anyway. All that beautiful terrain, 80-degree weather and beautiful beaches. Yuck.
I do my ruck marching up in the Tejas Hill Country. I see a car, once in a while. I listen to Glenn Beck and Rush on the radio to drown out the noise of my old, wheezing and clicking body trying to tell me to Stop! Stop now!
Joe, dropped my retirement papers last week. Felt like a hunnert pounds dropped off my shoulders. An hour later, I started getting queasy....kinda like the old mine horses that go blind 'cuz they're in the mines all their lives, now having to go up top in the sunlight. Got to look at some pix of Camp Sullivan and the Embassy yesterday, now I'm starting to feel like I'm 18 again....well, like an 18-year-old arthritic accident victim. Been a long, long time since I actually WANTED to go to work 14-hour days. At least I get to play with heavy weapons, again. Anyway, Boudica's on board with it, and life's too short to be bored. Ma'as salaama...
Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 02:04:08 (ZULU)
The .260 is hard to beat if you plan to draw blood. The 95 grain vmax at 3300 fps is devastating as a varmint round. The ~120 gr hunting pills will do for pretty much anything on the continent...save maybe a charging grizz or polar bear...not many of them in WVa.
The tame recoil lets you go down quite a bit in weapon weight / barrel taper and still hold solid groups... but don't go any shorter than 24" if you want a good MV. I also recommend avoiding the 140 class match pills.... similar analogy to 190s in a .308...just too much pill for the cartridge. Both Berger and Norma sell a 130 gr HPBT, Sierra had one in the works too...The laupa 123 gr scenar is an absolute laser if you can avoid strong wind...you've already seen what it will do to your targets at under 400 yards <g>
As a long range tactical round, it's pretty competitive, but not quite up to the magnums. The 100 gr sierra, carefully loaded, might even get you in the top ten at a BR match.
Bottom line...it's a great round. It doesn't have quite the life of a .308, but then, 'quality of life' is something to consider as well <g>.
medicjim
Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 02:11:35 (ZULU)
medicjim
Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 02:18:55 (ZULU)
1911 Govt and Commander are the same length, the officer's model uses a shorter mag for the shorter frame.
S/F
Kush
Kush
Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 04:58:24 (ZULU)
medicjim: "The ~120 gr (6.5mm) hunting pills will do for pretty much anything on the continent...save maybe a charging grizz or polar bear..."
I don't think so.
CDC'
Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 04:59:03 (ZULU)
Thank you for the information.
Duman
Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 14:32:47 (ZULU)
medicjim
Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 14:53:59 (ZULU)
Don't think you're a trouble maker, probably more like me, just want to know your right's... all of them, and if it's a gray area then find a line through it. It's harder to subdue an educated people. That's the reason I liked POLY SCI so much. Learning, History, Legalities, all rolled into one. Those who don't know history are destaned to repeat it. Those who don't know their right's allow them to slowly be erroded away.
Headphones I sit form sun up to down in the plane during the busy season and would go crazy without them. I had a guy I subcontracted for a few years back and he told me he didn't allow his pilots to fly with them. I kept up so much chatter on the radio that he bought me an MP3/FM and told me to use it and keep quiet. Good tunes while turning and burning just go hand in hand together for me. Steppen Wolf made some great flying music, along with most of the Vietnam era music. I'm not a runner, but I couldn't see doing it by myself without it.
Duman Government and Commander are the same as far as magazines, Officers is shorter. The first two can be used in the officers. Commander has an inch shorter slide/barrel than government. Officers has shorter grip also. That's the basics. There are many variations on all the guns now days due to the manufacturers finally seeing all the custom items the public wanted, but the mags are still the same IMHO thank Kimber for bringing the factories around.
Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 15:10:43 (ZULU)
Thanks for the feed back
outa here, gotta haul some wood.
markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 18:15:09 (ZULU)
I hit a bou on a hop square in the ass (the back of his head was in the cross hairs at the break)--and got an exit hole in the chest:)) Enough gun there. Maybe too much? I changed bullets afterwards.
Ya know, I've only shot six 'Bou ever. Every one died in place, and each was hit once. What I don't know is whether I was just choosing--and hitting my marks well or if they are just fragile animals?
Joe M
Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 19:35:38 (ZULU)
The swedes have been using a 6.5 pill travelling at the same speed to drop big game for something like 100+ years now...strange that they haven't cut over to something better...<g>
medicjim
Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 20:42:02 (ZULU)
6.5 projectiles around 160g are apparently the recommended bullet weight for really large game (bigger than whitetail deer). (6.5x55, .260).
examples:
Lapua 155g E471 Mega Hunting
Hornady 160g RN #2640
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 22:05:01 (ZULU)
This is starting to sound a LOT like the .270 vs. '06 fight, ain't it? I would, however, be willing to test this round on every big game animal in North America, if you two would be willing to pay expenses. I'm just that kinda guy. Always willing to help.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, December 30, 2007, at 23:41:28 (ZULU)
ROTFLMAO
SSG Mac
Monday, December 31, 2007, at 00:10:35 (ZULU)
medicjim
Monday, December 31, 2007, at 00:55:55 (ZULU)
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2007/12/anti-military-l.html
or click.
SSG Mac
Monday, December 31, 2007, at 02:07:25 (ZULU)
Come north, we have moose here :-)
http://www.advertisenorth.com/outfitters/moose_hunting.htm
http://www.env.gov.nl.ca/snp/Animals/moose.htm
On average an adult moose stands (1.5 - 1.8 m)(5 to 6 feet) high. Males weigh (850 to 1180 lbs.)(385 - 534 kg) and females (600 to 800 lbs)(270 - 362 kg).
On the Island of Newfoundland, moose is an important game animal, with approximately 22,000 being harvested yearly.
Moose are typically hunted in teams, since that's a lot of meat to lug even a short distance to a roadway.
rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, December 31, 2007, at 02:07:38 (ZULU)
I shot a .260 quite a bit this year. Mine has a 28 inch tube that is 1/8 and my load is 43.5 grains of H4350 with a 142 SMK and Fed 210 in Remmy brass. I get 2,800 at the muzzle with no pressure signs. My come ups in MOA from 100 are:
1.5 at 200
9.5 at 500
20 at 800
29 at 1,000
It's wind drift is about 65% of my .308 shooting a 175 SMK at 2,700ish. This is the only load I've used in this chambering because I've been happy with it and I have no patience for load development. Most of the guys I've spoken to about bullets seem to prefer the 139 Lapua Scenars over what I chose.
I think the .260 is hard to beat when considering all the different factors. For hunting purposes I subscribe to the Elmer Keith philosophy so that leaves the .260 in the varmint rifle category HA! I don't try to do everything with one rifle so that doesn't matter to me. I love the .260 as a target round as I hear the barrel life is acceptable (haven't found out yet personally), it pops steel plates just fine at 1K, recoil is light and flight performance is very good. My opportunities to hunt big game are very limited and when I do I want to bust them hard. If I was into saving every ounce of meat I'd buy it at the grocery it's much cheaper that way.
If I had to build something to shoot matches with and hunt up to deer sized game, I would take a hard look at the 7WSM. I've no experience with it but I've heard of others having very good results with it.
I sent you a PM on the 'Hide site recently I don't think you've seen it.
Cheers,
Marc
MarcS
East S.F. Bay area , CA, - Monday, December 31, 2007, at 04:58:58 (ZULU)
Blood boiling. Thanks for the link. I'm posting it everywhere I can think of. I any of you didn't visit the link, please do so. It ought to piss off every Red-blooded American here. I'm sure CDC is just cranking up to have a full-blown coronary about it.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, December 31, 2007, at 06:07:06 (ZULU)
On one of the forums I posted this on, a guy pointed out that this could be defined as a hate crime. I hope they persue it as such, and disbar this cocksucker.
Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, December 31, 2007, at 06:40:10 (ZULU)
The best hope our Marine freind has is a big outcry on the web, the news, and to the IL Bar. Then the asshat might cough up the dough to fix his car just to make it go away.
SSG Mac
Monday, December 31, 2007, at 11:48:32 (ZULU)
Gotta give alot of credit to that Marine.I would have pounded the guy til he was a bloody spot on the sidewalk,and I KNOW I wouldnt be the only one....
UnPat
UnPat
WI, USA - Monday, December 31, 2007, at 14:23:44 (ZULU)
That lawyer is gonna get hurt bad by this, you might want to make damn sure he deserves it.
medicjim
Monday, December 31, 2007, at 14:26:31 (ZULU)
Barrel life, as one might expect, is not going to be very long, but barrels aren't all that expensive.
The .260 Remington is doing very well in tactical competitions.
Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, December 31, 2007, at 14:46:59 (ZULU)
Smart, or at least honest, men are thankful when they're corrected. Thanks for the word of warning Jim.
Edited to add: Taking another look, BlackFive claims to have the police report, and it's been picked up by AmericanThinker as a blogpost also. BlackFive also states the hearing is today, and he'll post updates as he has them.
We'll see.
SSG Mac
Monday, December 31, 2007, at 18:02:20 (ZULU)
.260s: I like them both, and plan yet another (though the 6.5x47 and the WSMs are on the possibles' list). Comp gun; with as many bells as I can afford, and a whistle or two to make it a keeper.
One reason I lean toward the .260 is cross compatability with the 308 family; and of course, it makes a fine girl gun. When Blake signs this month...look around---nuttin' but girls left in the nest!
The "to-do" list that I accumulated, or things I put off while active included archery, reloading, and dog-training. Time-intensive pursuits that I left alone as much as possible to stay mobile...well; by god they combine to make retirement one of those "why didn't I do this sooner?" things...
Joe M
Monday, December 31, 2007, at 19:46:40 (ZULU)
HDR
OK, - Monday, December 31, 2007, at 22:34:46 (ZULU)
Chuck, you are in my and Dee's prayers. I remember how much lighter I felt after retiring from the PD. I went off to Haiti back then (2002). Some of the guys here remember that.
S/F
Finger
Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Monday, December 31, 2007, at 23:06:23 (ZULU)
Hoping for a better trigger pulling year next year, Bolt out!
Bolt
Waiting on 2008, NC, - Monday, December 31, 2007, at 23:35:03 (ZULU)
Joe M
Monday, December 31, 2007, at 23:48:23 (ZULU)
This year's toast additions will be many; but my personal one will be "we did a good thing...and you made it so."
LouAnn, Angie and I have you in our thoughts this day...and in our prayers always.
Joe M
Monday, December 31, 2007, at 23:53:06 (ZULU)
