Sniper Country Duty Roster

Bruce R;

I hope you don't mind, but I made a post on another site about you and CB's selfless and very patriotic effort in getting much needed supplies to the troops. Maybe some will be contacting you. I didn't say anything about the great fella on the receiving end just in case that wasn't cool. I wanted too. He just doesn't seem like an officer, hah!

I also made a plug for the world famous Mil-Dot Master. The site is savageshooters.com in the forum section.

All;

If I don't get around to it before Christmas, may all of y'all have a good one and remember the reason for the season.

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 01:09:41 (ZULU)

Jody, was wondering around in the web site you mentioned above and came across this: http://www.goofyfun.com/cmas/osamareindeer.swf

Folks cut and paste, give it a few to download and prepare to laugh yourself silly!

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 02:24:02 (ZULU)

Sarge;

Yeah, that was cool!

LATER

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 02:27:52 (ZULU)

Our Soldiers

Wishing all of you around the world a merry Christmas. Our children will sleep safely on christmas eve and need only dream of Santa, because you are willing to go in harms way, standing guard around the world. I hope you realize how greatfull we are for your sacrifice, you make us all proud to be AMERICANS !!!! Our hearts and our prayers are with you in all the far corners of the globe.

God Bless you all and God Bless America!!!!!

Robert Adcock

Robert Adcock
Far East, Texas, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 03:58:13 (ZULU)

Well Hogs, Hoggettes, dudes and undudes, kitty shooters and everyone else it's about time to start thinking abot SNIPERQUEST 2004!!!! Registration will open on or about 1 January and we'll do our darndest to keep you up-dated on the prize table! Be prepared for a VERY INTERESTING "Top Gun" Prize - no I ain't saying no more!!

BTW How many of you have contacted Bobby to let him know what week-end you'all want to go to BadLands to just shoot!!! This ain't no match, there ain't no charge to shoot, you show up stay at Headquarters and have a BLAST! Only thing you need to do is get yourself there plan for your eats and drinks and bring ammo and rifle! Bring a gun, we'll shoot, it'll be FUN!!!

Come on down!

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 04:03:45 (ZULU)

All:

We're back.

After two days, 1400 miles, 23 hrs. of driving, CB and I are now back in touch after driving back from Knoxville, a fun two days there with family.

We are both burnt matches.

Tried to do my Email off her daughter's computer, Sunday...NFG.

Perused DR briefly, shot an addy to JR.

Will go through the Roster thoroughly tomorrow, after we retrieve the pups from the kennel (Ain't THEY supposed to retrieve???)

Will also catch up on Email, and update all on Goodies program, orders that might be a touch overdue, etc. 450 unread mails as of Sunday, none of which I could delete. If I answered every one about increasing the length of my unit, it would stretch around the equator.

Jody,

Thanks for the kind words and the plug. Gal at the Post Office has promised me a check when I got back in town. This country is full of damn fine people.

Ass is draggin, so it's off for ANOTHER Scotch, then a shower.

If I don't get back to the Roster in time......May all of you have a joyous and wondrous holiday season.......you all have certainly given me and the Child Bride the best Christmas season we have ever had. God bless you.

Y'all Stay Safe.

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas,, NM, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 04:05:30 (ZULU)

Corpulent Chris: Been shooting my Rock Island 1911 cheapo for several months now. I like it. The sights suck, as they are the standard military issue, but since it points like my finger, and it shoots EVERY TIME I pull the trigger, it's academic. If they get close enough that I need a pistol, it'll hit 'em. The bluing is a little delicate, but I keep cold blue on hand 'cuz I wear shiny spots on everything I have, because I shoot everything I have. $350 for a dependable, shootable handgonne is peachy. The ramp and chamber are slightly ramped and polished, the ejection port is lowered and bevelled. What more does one need?

Sarge, any weekend is fine with me. I didn't have the moxie to do the Mountain Man bit and live in the mountains with one of our officers when he quit, but a Sniper Rendezvous sounds marvellous. April would be cool. I think there's a Bushnell Elite 3200 under the tree. Any problems woth yours, yet?

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 05:22:43 (ZULU)

Pete L.

Friend of mine down here has two of them. Typical Swiss watch but much less flexible than an AR.

Marc

Marc Palmer
Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 07:53:57 (ZULU)

Pete, while looking into this, it struck me as being very similar to the FNC. Fine, but way too heavy. For less weight, or approximately the same weight, a 308 FAL or M1A would make more sense.

Merry Christmas to all, and prayer to our troops and soldiers who can't be with theirs this holiday. Thank you, and God Bless.

Jaeger
Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 13:47:55 (ZULU)

Charles; I think you're right about that 1911 piece. Not even considering the price it looks right to me. One can always change the sights (and usually does)and add what goodies he thinks he needs. That in itself is probably the main appeal of the 1911 among firearms choices. As Mericans we tend to like to tinker with stuff cars,suv's etc are proof that statement is probably close to right. I won't compare the old relics with advances today that often go ash-tray in trying to create something new and better but sometimes are for fear of starting Roster WWW. WW. III. helltopay.suk but if somebody wants a good (and yes it is cheap) piece to start on it's good and good enough to carry right out of the box or I don't know shxx from shinXola. Honey, where's my Glock I got to head for town.

Brogers
Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 14:07:00 (ZULU)

Are any of our 'Hogs' in Ireland? I would like to contact one.

Larry

(Sharon)

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, TEXAS, US of A!!!!!!!!!!!! - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 15:00:58 (ZULU)

I don't get a chance to post as much as I used to but still keep up dated on the DR. I just want to take this time to wish all my old friends on here and some new ones a MERRY CHRISTMAS & HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Jr should be arriving this afternoon with new grandson, weather looks good for some shooting, it just doesn't get any better than that!!! Take care all!!

Pat
Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 15:19:11 (ZULU)

"December 23, 2003

Sniper’s skills in demand in Iraq

By Matthew Cox

Army Times Staff writer

SAMARRA, Iraq — The sun was sinking at the desert’s edge when Sgt. Randall Davis spotted his target, an armed Iraqi on a rooftop about 300 meters away. “It was just getting dark. I saw a guy step in front of the light,” said the 25-year-old sniper.

Davis knew he was watching another sniper by the way the man stepped back into the shadows and crept along the roofline to spy down on a squad from his unit — B Company, 5th Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment. “Most people, when they get on a roof, will just move around and do what they’ve got to do,” he said in a recent interview here. “But this guy was moving slowly, trying to have smooth motions, trying to stay in the shadows.”

From his own rooftop position, Davis tracked him with his favorite weapon — an M-14 rifle equipped with a special optic sight that has crosshairs and a red aiming dot. He didn’t have to wait long before the enemy sniper made his second mistake. “He silhouetted his rifle from the waist up, trying to look over at the guys in the courtyard,” Davis said. His M-14 spoke once.

“I hit him in the chest. He fell back. His rifle flew out of his hands,” Davis said. “You could see blood spatter on the wall behind where he was standing.” Confirmed kill, his eighth — which includes seven enemies picked off in one day.

The deadly Dec. 18 encounter took place on the second night of Operation Ivy Blizzard, a joint combat operation aimed at clearing guerrillas from this city of 250,000, a nest of insurgent activity in the Sunni Triangle.

The operation is being carried out by the 5-20’s parent unit, Fort Lewis, Wash.-based 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division (SBCT), and 3rd Brigade, 4th Infantry Division, out of Fort Carson, Colo. Snipers had attacked the 5-20 three days before the rooftop encounter.

“We had been engaged by snipers in here before, so I was hoping it was the same guy,” the Nashville, Tenn., native said. “It’s kind of a professional insult to get shot at by another sniper.” He seems to take his job in stride, though he admits he’s been surprised at how busy he’s been since he arrived here two weeks ago.

New urban-warfare threat

In April 2001 the Army began teaching urban sniper techniques as part of its five-week sniper course at Fort Benning, Ga. Army leaders recognized the emerging threat and realized that traditional sniper techniques of lying prone and stalking prey in the open would not be enough in a world where terrorists hit and run from inside city buildings and busy streets.

Army Sniper School’s urban training course includes lessons on concealment, shooting positions and more. The Army also added more snipers to field units as part of its ongoing transformation to a more mobile and lethal force.

The leaders of the Stryker brigade — the new wheeled combat vehicle that is part of the transformation — say their snipers have proven ideal for limiting collateral damage and civilian casualties in this guerrilla-style fight. “These guys are invaluable to our mission,” said B Company commander Capt. Damien Mason, describing how two-man sniper teams are deployed to provide precision fire against hit-and-run shooters or for counter-sniper work. “[Enemy] snipers have been a problem in this town,” he said.

The enemy sniper Davis took out Dec. 18 was by no means his first kill here. In the handful of skirmishes since mid December, Davis has been credited with eight confirmed kills and two “probables,” a count no soldier in the brigade has come close to matching.

Davis sees his job as vital to saving the lives of his own troops and takes no pleasure in the killing. “That’s one of those things you accept when you take the job,” he said.

Davis has been working in two-man sniper teams for two years. He’s a spotter and mentor for his less-experienced sniper teammate, Spc. Chris Wilson. In many cases, the situation dictates who takes the shot. “The roles switch up constantly between spotter and shooter,” Davis said. Davis, though, has done most of the shooting since his unit began operating in Samarra on Dec. 14.

It wasn’t long after arriving that he found himself with an Iraqi in his sights and his finger on the trigger. One night, he and Davis were taking sporadic fire in their position when two Iraqis burst out of a mosque with AK-47 rifles. “I shot the trail one,” he said, describing how the individual managed to crawl away, so he was listed as a probable kill. “He was hurt pretty bad.”

The next day, B Company walked into an ambush designed to draw them into the city. Before the day was over, Davis, armed with an M-4 carbine and an all-purpose optic, would be responsible for seven of the 11 enemy kills.

Most of the shots he took were while on the move at distances of 100 to 300 meters — longer than a football field, but certainly not the greatest distance from which he has hit his human target. On Dec. 20, he killed another sniper with one shot from an XM107 .50 caliber sniper rifle at a distance of 750 meters.

Davis admits he never thought he’d be this busy before deploying to Iraq. “This is the first time I have been in ever been in a combat situation,” he said. “Really it was just like targets down range – you just hit your target and acquire your next target. I thought I’d have a harder time shooting. Shooting someone is pretty unnatural.”

Early interest in sniper work

Davis is described by B Company 1st Sgt. Ray Hernandez as one of the best noncommissioned officers in the unit. “He’s very professional — one of those NCOs where you tell him to do a job, and he does it,” said Hernandez, who is from El Paso, Texas. Mason, the B Company commander, agreed. “He will make things happen,” said the 29-year-old from Kihei, Hawaii. “He will get the mission done no matter what.”

Davis said the toughest part of the deployment is that it means a year away from his wife and six-year-old son. Nevertheless, serving in a war zone is the opportunity to fulfill a dream he’s had since he was a kid. “It’s one of those things I wanted to do since I was 12,” he said, describing how reading about famous snipers was a favorite pastime.

Legendary snipers became his role models. Snipers such as Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock, a Marine sniper in Vietnam with 98 confirmed kills, Sgt. 1st Class. Randy Shugart and Master Sgt. Gary Gordon, two Delta Force snipers, who died in Somalia in 1993 trying to rescue a downed crew of a MH-60 Black Hawk during the battle of Mogadishu. “What those guys did was amazing,” he said.

Born with 20/10 vision, Davis said he has been shooting and hunting as long as he can remember. His favorite deer gun was a Remington Model 700 bolt-action rifle in .308 caliber — the civilian version of the Army’s M-24 sniper rifle. “I kind of grew up with the rifle,” he said.

The interests of his youth made it easy for Davis to transition into a job he describes as a more humane way of fighting an enemy that can easily blend in with harmless civilians.

“I just thought it was a very smart way to fight a war — very lethal, very precise,” he said. “This way I know I’m not shooting civilians. Every shot you take, you know exactly where the bullet is going.”

Picture Caption: Sniper Sgt. Randall Davis peers down the holographic scope of the M-14 sniper rifle he used during operations in and around Samarra. Since mid December, Davis has been credited with eight confirmed kills and two “probables,” a count no soldier in the brigade has matched. — Alan Lessig / Military Times staff "

Merry Christmas, GIs, wherever you serve.

Sinister
Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 15:24:15 (ZULU)

Dave and Rick: A box each is heading to BIAP to respective kinfolk. It is slightly non-standard but much faster. Expect it to arrive a day or two post Xmas---have them both on the lookout. Once they receive, I expect they will call ya. I put in some of those WVa school cards with the AT&T pre-paid phone cards. I told them if they don't, I am coming to take all the goodies back!

Dave: It is a SPEAR after all. I cannot do anything half-assed; besides, we do not want to make it easy for the thieves to steal it---this stuff will stand out in the crowd. Sanke eater suit and all. Let him know it is OK--the stuff has an NSN and is "issue." Poly is for the masses; and as before--this is "excess" to my needs. No worries. He will be a bit more comfy in this stuff.

This was personal---thank you both; it feels alot more like Christmas today....

Phone cards/ christmas cards are in the hands of the 2d ACR, 82d ABN, some aviation types, a certain task force (shhhhh....), and at least 7 truck companies as well as an MP escort unit. That box went very wide and far. Each middle school card had some 12 hours' worth--so each one serviced a squad. Smallest box that went farther than any five yet! Bang for the buck.

Karl: Great post...

Bobby: March? Why not June? Heheh....or did my wife tell ya I ain't leaving the house for a few months on my return? As soon as I wear out my welcome home, me and the boy will be down to see ya.

Dang...only caught up to Sunday, Dec 21, 1432Z on the DR before work caught up with me...

You Gents have a Merry Christmas!

Joe M.

Joe Mahon
Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 15:38:55 (ZULU)

From the above article "...an M-14 rifle equipped with a special optic sight that has crosshairs and a red aiming dot..."

What kind of scope is the Army using on this rifle? Is it forward mounted a la Cooper's Scout Rifle or a convential mount over the receiver?

inquiring minds want to know.

Merry Christmas Happy New Year!

Jerry

Jerry
Baltimore, MD, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 16:40:31 (ZULU)

As we reflect on the true meaning of Christmas tonight, I would like to extend a hearty "Merry Christmas" to each and every one of youse hawgs. I hope you all have a happy and safe Holiday. God Bless!

Geoff M

Geoff M
WI, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 17:22:41 (ZULU)

Jerry.

Sounds like the EOtech Holosight.

medicjim
Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 17:58:18 (ZULU)

Had some help from a soon-to-be-returning-m25-wacko on an ARMS 18 install on my M1A yesterday. He's doing well. That #18 is the cat's ass BTW. Lower than my old Brookfield. Don't even need a cheekrest.

Pop them nuts loose on the MK4 rings with the Seeconk, and run up 9 to 100yd zero. Looking right over the mount like it ain't even there. Run that aperture down a couple, click that little VXII 3x9 tac. back on with the Seeconk and good to go for distance. I think I just fell in love again... heehee.

My oldest son Air Force E-5 may be going over in a few months. Shit.

I spend 20 in the Corps and don't even see combat and my son is in the Air Force and goes. Don't seem right, but at the same time I know it was the same worries for my Dad. He had FOUR to worry about! He's doing the right thing though.

To all you Roster Hogs and to all those that Serve and Protect;

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

You lads and lassies be sure to give your wee-ones a big ole' "Love" today. (Hell, EVERY day). They have to carry the burdens next. They need all the love and support we can give 'em.

Major Joe, How's YOUR little Peanut doing? Mine's got a extensive back surgery coming up after flu season. Your new one's probably growing like a weed, eh? We sure as hell appreciate your service, and what you're doing for the troops. Be good to shake your hand one day. Stay strong.

Bruce and CB, Your generosity and efforts are greatly appreciated by the folks over yonder. ( I know, "duh") Keep it up. Mr. Kuleck from Fulton Armory and I were e-mailing back and forth the other day about the #18 and also talking about how his outfit and Black Hills have adopted a unit over yonder and are helping them out. He said something to the effect that he didn't know of anybody else doing such. I replied that there was over on Sniper Country and gave him a brief sit-rep. No names, though.

Undude, Hope your healing well.

BRogers, Hard to keep a good man (YOU!) down, eh?

Lito, Good to hear that you're doing ok. Hug '"Rattus" for me.

BK Insain, Enjoy the SHOT Show, eh? "Shake That Money-Maker!"

Pete L, Stick a piggie for ME, too.

J.R. Be careful of those little lassies, eh? 'Fore we know it, you'll be hookin' up with one of 'em!

You folks stay safe out there!

Semper-Fi,

Spud

Dennis
Merced, Ca., USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 18:25:18 (ZULU)

Joe M.,

Thanks for the package to BIAP. I will tell him to be on the lookout. I hope you havc a great Christmas and I wish you the best. I know that you are away from your family also and it makes it tough. May each and every one of you here and your family have a wonderful Christmas. This especially holds true for all of the men out there defending our country......

Rick

Kimbershooter
Disputanta, Va., USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 18:25:25 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas to all. To those spending Christmas in the Service of our Country, God Bless. Hope the New Year will see Osama Bin Laden joining Saddam Hussein. The sooner that happens the better. Joe, Bruce and CB thanks for your care and hard work. You are making this world a better place to live. God bless you all.

HDR
OK, - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 19:15:58 (ZULU)

Major Joe Sir!

I just figured that you would show up during SQ04, with your son and have lots of fun with us. If you can't make it then, we have a couple of classes also during June that hopefully you can make. If you can not make a class, but want to shoot, BadLands is yours and your son, any weekend you want once you get back from OCONUS.

Update on the Sniper Country gathering:

Dates will be March 27-28, 2004. Come rain, sleet, hail or bright sun and blowing winds! Look forward to meeting everyone and having a good weekend of shooting!

Bobby Whittington
Grandfield, Ok, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 20:03:58 (ZULU)

Spud,

CB just came into the den and told me to come back to the office and read your post about Fulton Armory and Black Hills. She had a big ole grin on her face, and said, "Why does this not surprise me about Jeff (Black Hills)", and this on top of the huge check he sent us.

Jeff is a man that I am honored to know.

And feel free to give my name to anyone that wants to help!

All:

Back from the Post Office and bailing the pups out of the slammer. Opened all the envelopes, and we were stunned.

Accounting:

Previous Balance: $265.68

Contributions: $300.00

Current Balance: $$565.68

Please note: This does NOT include a contribution of $200.00 from Tim in NY. I had asked Tim, since he said "Use as you see fit", if we could divert his contribution to help our anonymous recipient of the pallet load of goodies to help with the shipping. He said "Absolutely", so I will forward those funds to him.

Thanks to Tim, and to Todd in PA, Mike in AR, Sam in PA, and John in TX. I've lost count of the checks John has sent, I'm ashamed to say. John got his bonus and had to use the bulk of it to patch up a dog (a man after my own heart!) and sent us the remainder, and a very generous remainder it was.

Mike and his wife in AR included a huge stack of cards that will go to the troops, from their daughter and her classmates. Seeing an envelope addressed to "Soldier in Iraq", in a child's handwriting in pencil, will flat get to you.

Lastly, just to make sure that there are no dry eyes out there, I'll leave you with this excerpt from one of the letters:

"It's a good thing that SC has an operative, in theater, to distribute the booty. The 'kids' over there are making REAL sacrifices, every day. The few crumbs that I can throw their way doesn't amount to much. After all, I get to see my wife and son every day."

My sentiments, exactly. Thanks, Joe. And pass our thanks to all you hand the stuff out to.

Merry Christmas, all.

Y'all Stay Safe.

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas,, NM, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 20:13:11 (ZULU)

Joe

Thanks... greatly appreciated and my son has already been informed, more via E-Mail.

Have a very merry X-Mas and take care.

v/r

All

Can't say enough good things about Joe and what he's doing and has done for the troops. Many of us here support him and other troopers and that's a admirable thing too but I believe there's at least one order of magnitude difference between us and Joe.

I often see folks vehicles enhanced with the "Proud to be an American" bumper sticker, I believe there should be a "America is Proud to call this man a Citizen". I believe Joe would certainly warrant having one of the first ones printed.

Dave "Doc" King
U. S. A. - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 20:18:26 (ZULU)

The M14 being bantered about is one of the many versions that Army units are purchasing and fielding out of thier own funds. The Guard snipers I was working with in TX were getting the same rifles with different scopes for either partner rifles or as Squad Sharpshooters.

Yes the picture being discussed has an M14 with a EOtech Holosight.

Funny how wars bring focus back on rifleman skills and snipers huh? It aint sexy in peacetime but in war they bring home the bacon.

Out

Gooch
BumFuck, AR, US of A - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 20:43:20 (ZULU)

I just want to take the time and wish ALL our folks on the front lines, and I'm not talking just the troops but the LE, EMS, Fire and hospital workers around the world who will not be with their families over the holidays. Your scarifice is apperciated and will be in the hearts and minds of all!

As for our troops! The pride with which I look upon Sarge Jr. everytime I see him in unifrom is the same pride I hold for ALL our military men and women where ever they may be! Speaking of Sarge Jr. he is going active duty the end of January and will be joining the 10th Mountain at Ft. Drum shortly there after!

Joe - incoming via e-mail

And definately not last but, From all of us at Sniper Country , Marius, Sarge, Scott and Pete may your hoildays be the merriest and brightest. May ALL our troops be safe and home by the next ones!

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 21:05:25 (ZULU)

Doc,

Well said.

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas,, NM, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 21:27:02 (ZULU)

Well, here we are again. Another holiday and almost another year behind us. I try not to type the same holiday wishes every year but my memory is getting shorter and I can't remember what I typed last year. Anywho, the Boltster wishes all the Hawgs and lurkers the happiest of holidays.

I especially wish all the soldiers around the world the best of luck in the coming year. I wish I was young enough to take one of your places. As Sargent Barnes said in Platoon, "Keep yourselves wired tight at all times".

My hazmat team has been asking what I want them to do now that the terrorist alert color changed. I just remind them about the very first words of wisdom that I put forth in the hazmat classes I teach. "This is not a weapons of mass destruction class. This is a Hazardous Materials class. Weapons of mass destruction ARE hazardous materials and you treat them just the same. You could just as easily have a semi carrying methyl-ethyl-badshit roll over on your front yard and you would have to react exactly the same." Essentially folks, if there was no stoopid color and alert level system, you need to be aware of what the heck goes on around you at all times. There is a little survivalist in all of us, especially this crowd. Hone your instincts. If something doesn't look right it probably aint right. Pure common sense. Enough preaching to the choir!

On another note....

I picked up a PWA preban mouse gun last night. Gonna whip up a bad ass tactical entry gun if I can find some good deals on AR thingies. Found a stock called the VLTOR. Nice looking thingamajig. Thing will probably weigh 20# by the time I get through hanging stuff from it.

Stocks.....

Finally got all the information on McMillan stuff. I have studied this to death and Friday, Kelly and family will get the call. Thanks to opinions from many Hawgs, looks like the woodland camo A5, standard fill, integral adjustable cheek piece with thumbscrews and no thumbwheel, and spacer butt plate system is going to fill the bill. Going to put the first one on my un-bedded stock PSS to test to see if it will hold the same zero without bedding. If so, will save some major bucks. Going to install the new Williams ST floor plate on this one also to see if I like it.

That's all for now. I really hope everyone has a safe and happy holiday season. Boltster out!

Bolt
NC, - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 22:36:03 (ZULU)

All:

Overlooked another check!

Chandler family at Iron Brigade Armory........balance is now $665.68!!!! These are some fine folks.

Check came in just before we left for Knoxville, and I haven't cashed it yet.

Thanks, guys! Our Christmas is pretty neat so far........and tonight is the neighbors' Christmas Eve party, with posole, enchiladas, green chile stew, empanadas, tamales, biscochitos, etc...Wish we could airlift some of this to Joe.

Art has been notified and will have a BIG box of jerky ready for me on Saturday.

Y'all Stay Safe.

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas,, NM, USA - Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 23:10:56 (ZULU)

Best Wishes and Happy Holidays to you all.

(Old Ironsights)

Scott Smith
Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 00:04:34 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas to all of our troops where ever you may be and to everyone on the Roster.

Happy New Year.

Keith

Keith
North Central WV, - Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 00:24:42 (ZULU)

HOGs, this has been a tough year. We have all lost so many family members and friends. It leaves me sad at what should be a happy time. All I can say is everyone hug your loved ones and pray for our troops.

Bless you all!

Merry Christmas

Mike Miller

MikeMiller
CA, - Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 02:10:41 (ZULU)

Hawgs and Dawgs

A very Merry X-mas from the island of sunny Okinawa. Stuck on Squadron Duty Officer on X-mas day, but being the only single officer, I dove on that greande.

Hope all is well and best wishes to those who are forward deployed

Kush out

Phrogs Phorever

Kush
MCAS Futenma, Okinawa, HMM-262 "Flying Tigers" - Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 02:12:19 (ZULU)

Merry Christmas to all......Got my best present tonight when I didn't get called for duty.

Swiss weapons- heard long ago that they were the triumph of workmanship over design, the few I've seen,like the Schmidt-Rubin, certainly validated the thought. Come to think of it, I do believe I've seen the StG 59(?) or so. Should have had a tow vehicle and wheels if not tracks.

WR Moore
Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 04:48:43 (ZULU)

Well I have not posted in a very long time - still lurking

Merry Christmas all

Kevin of the GWN
Edmonton, Canada - Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 05:49:26 (ZULU)

Gents,

Just back from Christmas eve dinner with the grand kids. A two and four year old bring back the wide eyed excitement of youth. It's nice to see such open, honest reactions from the little ones when the world seems bent on destroying themselves. Brings hope for the future...

Great to see all the postings...I'll join in wishing you all a Merry Christmas and the happiest of holiday seasons.

On duty tomorrow, so will have Xmas at my house in the afternoon. Can't wait to see the reaction of the little ones...

For our deployed troops I wish a safe Christmas and a speedy return to those they love. Very pleased and impressed by their performances in the current theatre of operations.

Merry Christmas to all...

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 07:45:16 (ZULU)

MERRY CHRISTMAS HOGS!!!!

Jon Beardsley
Welshman in exile, England, UK - Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 12:24:45 (ZULU)

Merry X-Mas Hawgs!!!

First God Bless the USA and all that fight for freedom.

Santa was good to me this morning. I got one really unexpected gift from the better half. A Creedmoor Lite-Heavy Cordura/Leather shooting coat. I guess she was listening after all =) In a few hours We go to Grand Ma's for diner and more stuff. The kids aree digging it for sure.

I got a surprise call from my best bud in A'Stan this AM too. He's been a busy boy. His up armored hummer hit a mine the other day. Cuts and bruises only for all occupants. He did say he has taken a real liking to his M25...but the T'Ban have not (wink wink). I really thought a lot of his taking the time to find a phone to call.

Work is busy with this condidtion orange but the cash is good...more toys will be enroute I think. I have a new M14 issued to me and can't wait to brealk it in. We are trying to ge the funds to send a few to George Gardner for "up-grades". Hell I might even send him my M1A while we're at it.

Ok babble over....Merry X-Mas

Joe S.

PS: Pete L- Sorry if thepeppered jerky got to the "exit pipe" I'll be sure to bring you more in April.

Joe S.
Dago, CA, US of A - Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 16:30:15 (ZULU)

Hey Hawgs,

Just wanted to wish you all a happy and safe holidays, and to remind all to remember and say a prayer for those away from their loved ones serving our country all over the world.

Steve

Steve ~ Hockeyref
Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 16:38:40 (ZULU)

Well Folks, i would like to wish you all a very merry christmas and a happy new year, i didn't get enough time to send cards or emails to a whole bunch of folk that i wanted to, so a general greeting will have to do. Take care, enjoy the festivities, spare a thought for all the guys and gals in uniform and for my colleagues who are now on a beagle hunt.

Joe S, whats this about madcows?

Pete.

Peter Lincoln
D - Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 18:27:47 (ZULU)

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW BEER

It looks like I'm going to ST. Louis in the near future to visit the inlaws/outlaws. Any St. Louis SWAT guys lurking? I used to train with a few of you guys at CMMA....geez has it been 12 years? Oh well if so, send me an e-mail I'd like to catch up.

My setter pup gets stiches out tomorrow. My darling next door neighbor shot him in the face with a .22 Its a good thing I'm such an even tempered son of a bitch!

Mom and Dad are fixing Prime Rib and twice-baked potatoes, I'm off to stuff my gut.

Later

4i's
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 18:28:54 (ZULU)

Pete L-"Joe S, whats this about madcows?" Hey you would be pissed off too if you knew they were going to make you into a burger =)

Just found out my bud at a gun shop got a S&W Mod 18 22LR K frame in on consignement. He said it "100%" NIB. He already held it for me at $249. I promissed our oldest lad to teach him to shoot at 8 (two more months) and this is perfect. Man this X-Mas is going smooth so far.

Take care all and stay safe,

Joe S.

Joe S.
Dago, CA, US of A - Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 19:28:27 (ZULU)

Just wanted to wish all you guys a Merry Christmas. I thank God that we can all share with each other, and that those of us that have had to go to weird places are still alive to be with out families. Had an interesting conversation with the teenage female descendant thhis morning. Told her it was mystifying to me that she got such pleasure with a control stick, laying on the floor pretending to be a mystic warrior or something. With considerable aplomb (she being all of 17 as of November), she rolls over and said "Well, it mystifies me that you get such pleasure lying behind a shooting stick, pretending to be a sniper." Ouch. That hurt!

Anyway, all youse guys have a good day, and I look forward to meeting a lot of you up at Badlands in March. God bless you and yours....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Thursday, December 25, 2003, at 20:38:24 (ZULU)

Hey,

Does anyone have any idea how to cammo a rifle so it looks like the ones at http://www.hdrifle.com/Camouflage/new_page_21.htm

They have a woodland that is excellent. I'm wondering what they might use to make the honeycomb pattern.

Thanks.

Corbett Mortensen
Omaha, - Friday, December 26, 2003, at 00:04:00 (ZULU)

Corbett, I believe that pattern was made by stretching small mesh netting over the rifle before painting.

Bolt
NC, - Friday, December 26, 2003, at 00:32:24 (ZULU)

http://attacked911.tripod.com/

I remember.

My tastes have changed back to my roots, and I find myslef listening more and more to country music instead of that God-awful stuff that passes for music now.

Imagine listening to this one as the boys crossed the borders the first nights of Afghanistan and Iraq (and the video's good too):

"The Angry American"

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:i2IbMQsbsuEJ:www.countrygoldusa.com/courtesy_red_white_blue.asp+Angry+American+video+toby+keith&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

"Whiskey for my Men, Beer for my Horses!" both videos:

http://www.tobykeith.com/media.htm

In a country of 291 million, there are roughly 100,000 trigger-pullers in the combat arms between the Regular Army and National Guard. I don't pretend to know the numbers in the Marines or Marine Reserve, but don't imagine the numbers exceed maybe 150,000 total (ground troops, including SF numbers with Naval Special Warfare).

Most have seen, are deployed, or will be in action sometime and somewhere around the world. If you have a minute, please think of them and their families at this time of year. Maybe send another fiver or ten to Bruce so he can send a piece of home to Joe's wonderful support operation.

Again I find myself prepping young men to go forward to do what has to be done -- I wonder what inspires them to do what they do for not a whole lot of money or recognition. I thank God I can be a small part of it.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, hawgs. Peace on Earth.

http://www.wycd.com/goout.asp?u=http://www.tobykeithamericansoldier.com

Sinister
Friday, December 26, 2003, at 03:43:42 (ZULU)

Col Dave.

Know what you mean. The last two weeks with the NG snipers was very inspiring. I gave SSG Maries your work number and he should be getting with you on some sniper related issues.

The SAM program is a mess out there in TX. Someone needs to get control of it.

Out

Gooch
BumFuck, AR, US of A - Friday, December 26, 2003, at 04:59:23 (ZULU)

Been busy, ops mgr on vacation till 01/04/04. Will have a comparison on the CZ 452 vs Ruger HVB in 17 caliber soon. So far the only thing I can tell ya is the ONLY ammo they will shoot is Hornady. Since I missed wishing you all a Merry Christmas(hope you all had one) I'll wish you all a safe and happy New Year!

John

Acehigh
Indy, IN, USA - Friday, December 26, 2003, at 12:24:21 (ZULU)

Good mornin' all you hawgs,

Hope you all had a great Christmas and made it home in one piece. Spent yesterday with the wife's family eating and drinking waaay too much so I'm off to the "Pain Palace" for my Friday A.M. exercise session. It ain't gonna be fun today. :o(( Hope you have a Happy & Safe New Year. Thanks to the troops wherever they may be.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The frosty Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, December 26, 2003, at 13:26:45 (ZULU)

Well gents, I'm half way through hockey season and I've skated 70 games so far (finished last season with 98 games in MAY so I've been a busy zebra)... kinda 'splains why I ain't even been lurking the past two months.... even managed to whack a nubby headed bambi this year...

I'm getting primed up for the new season, local range now has 500 yards and we reopen for NRA high Power this spring..... I have swingers set at 200,300, & 500. I'm looking to put SMALLER ones up as well as new ones at 100 and 400 yards - maybe some sort of popper or larue also. Looks like I'll be co-chair of the Rifle and pistol committee (as if I need more stuff on my plate). We need to pour 12 cement pads in March\April and build\rebuild the target carriers. Looking for an end of April\first Sunday in May opening match.

Speaking of matches, since Sarge mentioned SniperQuest '04.... is it too soon to start hoping for an ASC#3? John M, if I can help you let me know.... I'll do what I can.

Have a safe and Happy New Years Hawgs!

Steve

Steve ~ Hockeyref
In desperate need of recoil therapy, Pennsylvania, the land of excessive Taxes, USA! - Friday, December 26, 2003, at 14:53:01 (ZULU)

For some who shoot metal swinging targets and gongs you might want to try this. Put a hole in the middle of the target with a paper target holder on the back side. Usually the hole be 1 moa size for the range. Make the swinger fairly large about 10moa size is good and if you don't hear the hit you are probably in the the 10 ring. This saves you wondering where the round went if you have a wind miss and still reasonably good accounting of your good shots. It also makes for longer lasting metal targets. You could do the same with a man sillouette or Iron Maiden.

Dave, you'll need a permit to listen to Redneck Music if your planning on crossing over. Toby's the man!

Brogers
Friday, December 26, 2003, at 16:21:32 (ZULU)

Happy New Year to you all

avi
haifa, israel, israel - Friday, December 26, 2003, at 17:44:55 (ZULU)

Guys,

A heads-up.

If any of you are using Compuserve, my advice is to STOP!

I have closed my account as a result of a three-month battle to resolve a charge of over $50.00 to my American Express account. I have paid $9.95/month for six years, for a back-up line that I rarely used, only when my primary ISP was down. Then the excess charge came through with no explanation.

Compuserve "Customer Service" (they service you the same way a bull services a heifer) has told me on two ocassions that it was their mistake, I disputed the charge with AmEx, but I just got a letter from AmEx statting that Compuserve stands behind the billing.

Just got off the phone with the Compuserve "Customer Service" department. The connection was so bad I had to yell, the Indian gentleman that I talked to was incomprehensible, and I was essentially told that they could not find my account information.

At a time when Americans need jobs, why in the hell does an American company farm out jobs to New Delhi??????????

I will of course pay the $51.30 to AmEx. I will also do my damnedest to see if I can prevent anyone else from spending a nickel with Compuserve. Complaint to Better Business Bureau follows.

Thoroughly pissed in the Land of Enchantment..........

Rant Off.

Y'all Stay Safe

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas,, NM, USA - Friday, December 26, 2003, at 17:57:26 (ZULU)

Bruce,

I can surely empathize with you.... As my job often requires dealing with the "non-American helpdesk staff" of a major computer manufatcurer for warranty issues on the 300+ systems that I administer, I have a set procedure...

When I contact tech support I get their name and ID number or however the company tracks the person FIRST... WHEN I get someone who is either clueless or can't speak acceptable English I immediately request a supervison who I also get said information from and plainly state that either the previous person can not speak MY language well enough to perform his job or is just plain clueless and I need to speak with someone who is AMERICAN and knows what the hell I'm telling THEM and can communicate with ME well enough to get the problem resolved... I normally then report the issue to my regional sales rep for further action.... IN SHORT I AM A PR!CK and I make waves! I have done this for people with accents too heavy to understand as well as attitudes too difficult to deal with.

The companies are simply outsourcing the support to the pacific rim, etc. due to cost and until we, the consumer makes a big enough statement, it won't change. In any event the cost gets passed on to us anyway so I believe in the "Burger King Principal" - I'll Have it MY Way or not at all Thank You! ... Ever notice that companies constantly say they can't get "qualified American people" for IT jobs?? What they really mean is that the qualified Americans cost too much compared to the temps that are imported by headhunter companies to work as Temp\contractors, or are employed off shore.

Yep I've done gone and ranted right with ya... but damn I feel better!

Steve~Hockeyref
Friday, December 26, 2003, at 18:48:40 (ZULU)

Gents,

We'll, another Christmas gone. As usual Santa and his elves outdid themselves. We are blessed.

Grandson, age 4, is getting big. Probably get him a small rifle next Christmas and start his training. He's gonna be grandpa's huntin' buddy in a few years.

Bruce, I know how you feel about the Compuserve folks. When I worked for HP one of the "cost cutting" measures they instituted was to move all computer support to Mexico and all the companies major financial to India. Thank you Carly Fiorinna.

Sinister and Gooch-san. Will be seeing SSG Maries in the next day or two and get caught up on his exploits training with Gooch. Sinister, anything you can do to assist him would be appreciated. Somehow, Maries and I have established a father/son relationship. Probably, because of like interests and doing some shooting and training together.

As for Marine Trigger Pullers...ALL Marines are considered trigger pullers, and qualify yearly as such. If we are talking Grunts, I'd say about 20% of the 177,000 plus Marines are grunts.

All for now. Hope all had a Merry Christmas and will have a Happy New Year.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Saturday, December 27, 2003, at 00:32:17 (ZULU)

Charles; my daughter saw what I sent you and said "Dad, you should tell this guy you're really not all those things I said to get that guy out of my room! " Anyway!

Brogers
Saturday, December 27, 2003, at 01:36:15 (ZULU)

Had to do a little traveling the past few days so I didn't get a chance to wish you and yours the best for the holidays.

God Bless all.

Ma ma managed to place a Beam Hit Targeting System under the tree this year so I guess I'll have to catch up on some much needed practice. From what I've been able to do so far, this system rocks for practicing off hand and handgun basics.

Hell now I feel like Kevin with the indoor basement range and I don't have to alarm the neighbors.

God Bless all. Keep safe and healthy for a long time to come.

TonyY
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Saturday, December 27, 2003, at 02:10:12 (ZULU)

Belated Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all...especially those serving who couldnt be home for the holidays...your work is very much appreciated. Be safe hope to have u home soon.

Hockey Ref, saw your a resident of the exc. tax...email me offline if your interested in maybe hooking up to shoot sometime.

Mr "sane", are you by chance making the journey to DC in May, for the "week" festivities (however its spelled u know what i mean).

Marc
Saturday, December 27, 2003, at 04:28:12 (ZULU)

Been lurking for a while, but now have a question concerning steel targets. I have a friend with about 100 acres and we have tried to place steel targets at different ranges. We have found a guy that will cut the steel into B-27 size targets on a plasma cutter, also made us some reduced size targets. After two attempts with the steel we have not gotten steel that will take the hits from a .308. Our guy that is doing the cutting is not getting the correct info from the steel supplier or something. Can someone please tell me which steel we need that will take the hits? All the fellow charges us is the cost of the steel per pound but so far we have not been satisfied with the result. We have a twelve inch piece of steel that will take the hit of any round we have tested up to 300 Win Mag at 100 yards. But we do not know what type of steel this is or what to ask the guy to get! Any help will be appreciated!

Barron Moreland
Cayce, South Carolina, - Saturday, December 27, 2003, at 14:17:02 (ZULU)

For rifle targets you need a minimum of 500 Brinell hardness of the plate and 1/2 inch thickness.

By the way, the B-27 is known as the "Paul Bunyan" target because it's bigger than life. Try the bowling pin outline of the FBI Q target.

WR Moore
Saturday, December 27, 2003, at 14:26:29 (ZULU)

Barron, Try this site. All prices include shipping. http://www.mgmtargets.com/

If you are hanging the target drill holes in it for hanging. Welding on it will take out the temper and make it soft.

Avi, Shalom. Glad to see you checking in. Have a Happy New Year too.

Dirty Steve, Out.

Steve Dickerson
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Saturday, December 27, 2003, at 17:12:08 (ZULU)

Guys,

I would like to impose upon you for a moment of silence to honor fallen Oklahoma Highway Patrol Trooper Nikky "Nik" Green. He gave the ultimate sacrifice yesterday morning, December 26th, 2003. Upon answering a call about a suspicious vehicle, he was shot and killed about 2 miles west of Devol, Oklahoma.

I personally knew Nik, have worked with him, and he will sorely be missed around the Grandfield-Devol area. Some of the rosterians have probably met him, because he was getting the long range bug and spent some time on the BadLands ranges.

Nik leaves behind a wife, 3 daughters and one foster daughter. A trust fund for the children is being established at First Bank in Burkburnett, Texas, phone number 940-569-2221.

Rest in Peace Nik.....you are missed.

Bobby Whittington
Grandfield, OK, USA - Saturday, December 27, 2003, at 18:07:11 (ZULU)

Seasons greetings from an Attorney:

From me ("the wishor") to you ("the wishee"), please accept without obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, politically correct, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all.

We wish you a financially successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2004, but with due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures or sects, and having regard to the race, creed, colour, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform or sexual preference of the wishee.

By accepting this greeting you are bound by these terms that:

This greeting is subject to further clarification or withdrawal. 1.This greeting is freely transferable provided that no alteration shall be made to the original greeting and that the proprietary rights of the wishor are acknowledged. 2.This greeting implies no promise by the wishor to actually implement the inferences contained in this correspondence. 3.This greeting may not be enforceable in certain jurisdictions and/or the restrictions herein may not be binding upon certain wishees in certain geographical locations. 4.This greeting is warranted to perform as reasonably as may be expected within the usual application of good tidings, for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first. 5.The wishor warrants this greeting only for the limited replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wishor.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Saturday, December 27, 2003, at 18:14:22 (ZULU)

Internet Filter Software Blocks Pro-Gun Sites

I just read about this in my copy of The Firing Line published by The California Rifle and Pistol Association, Inc..

Apparently Symantec parental controls block gun sites while allowing anti-gun site through. Click on my name to read more on it.

Later,

Byron
CA, USA - Saturday, December 27, 2003, at 20:35:37 (ZULU)

Back from ABQ, where we got a bunch of small plastic bottles for weapon oil, 400 ounces of Art's jerky, some Skoal and Cope and hard candy.

PO box yielded a check from a DR lurker in NM, with 10 phone cards!

Previous Balance: $665.68

Expenditures today: $588.04

Contribution: $50.00

Balance: $127.64

Gonna have to go in two boxes, there's so much. The schoolkids' cards will also go in, along with the candy that they enclosed.

Joe, hope your folks ain't lost their taste for jerky......that's 25 lbs!

$200.00 was forwarded to our anonymous pal with the pallet load of goodies. They are repackaged and ready to go.

CB did a card file so's we could keep up with who all have sent funds and goodies, and to make sure she has sent Thank You cards to all. She waltzed into the den and plopped a stack of 3x5 cards in my lap over a half-inch thick, and a lot of them had multiple donations on them.

May God bless you all.

Y'all Stay Safe.

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas,, NM, USA - Saturday, December 27, 2003, at 22:11:43 (ZULU)

My condolences on the loss of your friend, Bobby. It's all too often the best of us who are required to make that sacrifice, leaving the rest of wondering why. Of course, it's that willingness to serve that makes them the best. One wishes, though, that it would happen less often.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Saturday, December 27, 2003, at 23:24:17 (ZULU)

Bobby,

My most heartfelt condolences as well. I know that Nik's death is a terrible loss not only for his wife and daughters but you as a friend and.... the community as a whole. Not enough can be said for our LE0s who goes out in harms way everyday and Nik paid the highest price.

There's lots of fine people that frequent this site as Bruce, CB and Joe M. can atest too and I know that there'll be a lot of lurkers out there who'll step up to the plate and help this family's loss just like this site has helped our troops overseas.

Thanks for listing the phone number to the First Bank @ Burkburnett, TX (940-569-2221). I suspect that there will be several rosterferians that'll be in contact with this bank on Monday.

edited:

I saw the video cam recording taken from Nik's cruiser this evening (they didn't show all of it...but enough). I hope somebody finds him REAL soon.

Mk4
Texas, Remember 9-11, United States of America - Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 00:30:33 (ZULU)

Gents,

Bobby, Trooper Green adds to a long list of this years losses. Both Law Enforcement and Military. We are diminished.

Got a Galati International drag bag. We found them new for $110.00 each, in black or green. You must buy a minimum of 5 each to get the pricing. Very Impressive design and construction! Believe the sale is now over.

I'm not a big fan of drag bags, but this one is great and priced right. All kinds of pouches, pockets, etc. Top quality. Great way to put all your rifle "kit" in one "grab it and go" set up.

Have the next three days off. Naturally, I came down with a cold today just so I would enjoy my time off.

Weather is typical Oregon winter weather. Cold, wet, rainy, and dismal. Am going to sneak to the range and chronograph/test some new .338 Lapua loads Monday. At least the range is covered...

All for now.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

(Survivor Xmas '03)

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 00:46:11 (ZULU)

Byron;

I read about it on long-range.com a little while back. I e-mailed Symantec, who are also the parent of Norton Anti-Virus, and asked if they would give me an explanation. They have yet even respond other than "I will forward it to the person in charge of that". That was several weeks ago. I'll be looking for another anti-virus, not that they care.

Trooper;

I always hate when the good guys fall.

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 04:23:49 (ZULU)

I have a question about Remington Actions, I am trying to build a custom rifle in 300 Tornado. I want to use a Remington Action as this is the action I am most familiar with.

I could use a short action, but that would limit my bullet weight choices, so I think I must use a Long Action.

Now here is my question, I currently don't own any Long Action Remington guns, I do have a Magnum Action (300WM). Is there a difference in the Magnum and the LA? As I want to use a HS Precision stock and a #3 contour barrel for the gun, but can't find any stocks that are for the LA, with a Varmint Weight Barrel.

I want a stock like the ones that the Remington PSS come with, that is what my Remington 300WM PSS, had till I changed it for the Tactical with adjustable LOP and Check Rest.

So if I can use a Magnum Action Stock with a LA Action I will be on my way.

Any help here will be most appreciated.

Joel Johnson
Miami, FL, US - Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 05:34:00 (ZULU)

Jon B, i just returned from the league of the extraordinary garden shed beer drinking gentlemen (well it is Sunday)and i got your hat, i'll post it with the bino's.

Marc P , tried several times to call you, i could hear you, but you not me, next time was mail box, when you available..

Greetings to all.. Pete.

Peter Lincoln
D - Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 11:52:59 (ZULU)

.17 review note,

Had to relieve the stock on the CZ last nite and checked the Ruger(Laminated grey) stock and it will have to be relieved as well. So all test firing is now moot. More to follow...

John

Acehigh
Blmgtn, IN, USA - Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 12:06:32 (ZULU)

Acehigh...incoming email via SC system regarding my .17 hmrs

Kimbershooter
Disputanta, Va., USA - Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 13:59:54 (ZULU)

Bobby,

Sorry for the loss of a friend. Hopefully they catch the bastard expediently.

All,

Merry belated christmas and happy new year. Be careful this year, the dumb are getting a whole lot dumber and the stupid are getting ballsier.

Joel,

Long action is used for magnums, it's not a separate action, but you may have to start with a new bolt if the new cartridge has a smaller bolt face diameter than a belted mag. I'm not familiar with the round you are wanting to use, but if it's, say, 308ish in length and you want to use a longer bullet, you may just need to lower and dress the ejection port a bit and install a bench follower and abandon the magazine on the short action. I've had feed and ejection probs. (that could have been fixed by a better gunsmith than myself at some cost) shooting short rounds out of long actions. If the bolt throw is too long it sometimes causes the spent case to do backflips. Go to a sharper Sako style extractor and use a reduced power ejector spring if you go the long action route, and block the back of the magazine no more than .20 longer than your longest round. The more the cartridge travels in the mag during recoil, the more likely the bullet will knock the front of the mag and seat itself deeper in the case causing accuracy and more importantly pressure problems!

Pete,

Did you at least get to take a nice 40kg pig for the christmas ham?

Anyone know the REAL diff between a Palma chamber and a std. 308 chamber. Just picked up a no throat reamer for a project 308, but the packaging says 308 Palma Match. Would this be a std 308, just with tighter tolerances and a better neck, or will I be neck turning everything that goes down this pipe?

Thanx Hawgs

Robert Martin
Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 14:06:51 (ZULU)

I have Symatic(sp) Norton Internet 2004 Protection and was able to get right in to NRAILA with no problems. I guess YMMV...

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, TEXAS, US of A!!!!!!!!!!!! - Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 14:09:03 (ZULU)

Just got this...

Recipie for "the morning load"

Case Prep

Starting with a clean case is acceptable, but previously fired cases with heavy residue will

enhance the load considerably.

Powder Selections

If loading magnum rounds, choose finely granulated short-cut powder such as CBS (cafe

bustello supremo) or other of equal burn rate. If you are still using the old style paper

patch press, I reccommend FMB (folgers mountain blend) or other medium to coarse granulated

powder. Upping the powder charge on the paper patch presses can sometimes come close to

magnum performance, but accuracy will be affected.

The use of pre-packaged paper patched powder charges is not especially reccommended, unless

you throw a double charge.

Reloading

As I don't use a paper patch press and only handload magnums, I will only touch on this

process.

Seat the primer-use only good quality liquid primers, bench rest primers are available, but

stay away from the european manufacturers like Evian and Perrier. Make sure the primer

pocket is free of debris and seat the primer to the apprpriate depth. Screw down the primer

cover (magnum presses only) to ensure proper primer ignition, ruptured primers lead to

misfires! If loading Italian magnum rounds, use enough primer material to froth the bullet

lube.

Powder charge- Throw the charge directly into the powder hopper. You do not need to weigh

each charge, but rather throw by volume. Fill the metal hopper basket to the rim (if loading

cuban ultra mag rounds, use a compressed charge and keep toping it off) and place the hopper

in the charging bolt. Fully engage the charging bolt by turning it to the right until the

lugs are fully engaged in the press.

Load the round-Place a glass or stainless steel bullet mold under the powder hopper bolt and

turn on the press. If loading a local variant such as Italian or Cuban mags, see special

instructions below.

Italian Magnums-when bullet mold is approximately 3/4 full, you may start to prep the bullet

lube. Note-your press must be equipped for this feature. Place a dairy bullet lube into a

case and add a small dry measure of finely granulated sugar or sweetener. Place case under

the steam arm of the case and froth the lube. See manufacturers instructions for your press.

Cuban Ultra Mags-Fill bullet mold to 1/4 capacity with finely granulated sugar before

placing under hopper bolt. After the press has completed it's cycle (this will take longer

with the ultra mag due to the compressed powder charge) you must agitate the round quickly

to ensure sugar is dissolved completely.

Fire the round-Place bullet in case and fire away. This will surely get you down range!

Robert Martin
PSL, FL, US - Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 15:03:17 (ZULU)

Robert M;

I'm thinking a Palma chamber has really close tolerances. Don't know that though.

Check in on long-range .com and ask. They are the Palma experts.

I like the loading recipe.

LATER

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 16:16:21 (ZULU)

Wes:

Where did you find that deal on the Galati's? And did you get the drag bag or drag bag/rifle case? I have been thinking about getting a Galati, as they look pretty good for the price.

Sam
Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 16:28:06 (ZULU)

Joel:

I am building a .308 varmint rifle, on a Rem. 700 long action. (I found the rifle cheap in a pawn shop.) I was able to find an HS Prec. stock for a long action-heavy barrel on e-Bay. Check there for a while, and one will appear.

P. Hayden
USA - Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 20:04:23 (ZULU)

Hawgs - hope you all had a Merry Christmas.

The raffle was a success - thanks to younz out there that contributed/played.

On that note - Scott, Pete, Sarge, Marius.... please get back to me - check your mail.

Joe Mahon - check your mail too.... lemme know what ya think.

Take care

ken hunter
Nokesville, VA, USA Under God - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 01:44:33 (ZULU)

Joel-magnum receivers have wider magazine rail openings for the wider belted magnum cases, plus the 0.513 inch bolt face. You might try feeding dummy rounds to see if this is gonna work for you.

Palma match chambers-I've seen at least 3 different specs for this, almost every reamer grinder has their pet ideas plus the personalized chambers from the shooters. Check with the manufacturer. Clymer's website has drawings for their different reamers. Generally have a shorter freebore/leade due to the shorter profile of the Palma bullet. Other changes per manufacturer.

WR Moore
Monday, December 29, 2003, at 02:20:59 (ZULU)

Bruce: Holy smokes ... did it ever take off.

Cop snipers from all over wanting to help the mil snipers.

Working on it now. I'll letcha know how it goes.

RICK, KENT, DAVE ... please hit me on email offline. Need some names unit numbers and addresses ASAP.

brian k. sain
Monday, December 29, 2003, at 02:28:24 (ZULU)

Bobby

Sorry to here about your friend my condolenses, it is always a tragedy when good men die needlessly.

Robert Adcock
Far East, Texas, USA - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 03:15:02 (ZULU)

Howdy Gents: I have decided I need a Winchester Featherweight in 6.5x55 Swede. Can anybody clue me in on the twist rate USRA uses for this cartridge? It should be in a long action, but can anybody inform me for sure? I know the Winchester website shows overall length the same as the short actioned ones......this question came up several months ago, and I cannot remember what was said about it. When you get over 50 that happens at times.....

On another note, those wanting a .22 rimfire to complement their centerfires should take a look at the Anschutz 64 MPR. With scope it weighs ten pounds, and at 55 yards this one will put all five into one hole with Remington/Eley Target. Thanks and blessings to our troops as the New Year draws nigh.

Jerry
MN, - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 03:59:44 (ZULU)

Guys,

Thanks to everyone that sent emails with condolensces and offers of support. It is greatly appreciated! Nik was a fine person, father, husband, and trooper. He is going to be missed.

Good news though, suspect HAS been takend into custody!

Been a long tragic weekend,I am off to bed.

Bobby Whittington
Grandfield, OK, USA - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 04:02:58 (ZULU)

My Marine son is home for Christmas and I managed to get him to go shooting with me and a buddy today. This was the first time he had ever shot a bolt action rifle in high power caliber. First group with the .223 was .750, but when he got the the FN SPR A1a with the McMillan stock, first group was .315! He had a great day! Made my day a little better too!

Dirty Steve-he is drilling the holes in the steel so we can bolt on a chain to hang the target from. Thanks for the information!

WR Moore-thanks for the info on the steel. I an now becoming an expert on steel, thanks to some internet searches! The reason that we are using the B-27 target is our money person, who is in the scope business, wants the B-27 because the mil dots on his line of scopes are calibrated to the shoulder width of the B-27! We are cutting off at the bottom edge of the 7 ring to save a little weight and money. Since he is furnishing the land and money, we must play by his rules!

Thanks for the information!

Barron Moreland
Cayce, SC, - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 04:25:24 (ZULU)

New guy reporting in.

Jim

texasjim
Monday, December 29, 2003, at 06:25:57 (ZULU)

Jerry,

I don't know what winnie uses as a twist rate, but my last 6.5 Mauser had a 1 in 12 twist and grouped BEAUTIFULLY with 107gr Sierras. I averaged 1" groups at 200yds on a synthetic stocked short Swedish Mauser with a 20" barrel and a 6x Weaver. Used the stick for Hunter/Bench for a while 'til someone offered me twice what I had in it. That's rare for a Mauser, so I am no longer the owner. The new owner's 14 year old daughter took her first deer with it last year at over 300yds.

Undude/Mike,

The wife finally got to shoot a 300wsm. She told me to make hers a 308! She say's it's not the recoil (though she flinched a bit) but the noise. Got a Lilja blank on the bench now waiting for fluting and threading, then I'll cut and crown it to 24". She likes it so far...

Anyone had experience with LWC Duracoat? How does it hold up? I have a few stainless barrels I need to blacken and don't want to use a rattle can...

Jody,

Found them! I'll email you tonight with details...

Rob

Robert Martin
PSL, FL, US - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 12:56:24 (ZULU)

Jerry,

The Winchester Featherweight in 6.5x55 is a long action. I was the one who inquired about this several months ago. Not sure on the twist rate, will try to find out and get back to you.

Don

Don K.
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 13:26:08 (ZULU)

Request:

Anyone here have info or graphic and measurements of the "Hun" type targets. I'm looking for size(s) for the various targets used at the CFSAC. Target supplier would be good too if available. TIA

Dave "Doc" King
U.S.A. - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 13:42:49 (ZULU)

Well, hello, and welcome, Jim! Folks, texasjim is a good guy who lives near Houston and who has an AI AW on order, even though he already has a perfectly good George Gardner rifle. (OOOOh, Rifle Envy!) Speaking of that, Jim, my steel silhouette target came in last week, and when the dove season expires in the middle of January, Tony and I will be ready to head out to bang steel - we both need practice shooting in the wind. We'd be pleased to have you join us.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 14:06:08 (ZULU)

Jerry,

The twist on the 6.5x55 Winchester Featherweight is 1-8".

Don

Don K.
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 16:06:24 (ZULU)

Check out this link for info on the Mod 70 Featherweight 6.5x55

http://www.winchester-guns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=535&type_id=004&cat=001C

And then click on the item number.

John

John
Hudson, WI, USA - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 16:08:09 (ZULU)

Doc, you want the Figure 11 Combat Rifle Target from national Target Company. They also carry repair centers. The pistol target is similar, but the scoring rings are tighter.

Sinister
Monday, December 29, 2003, at 16:46:02 (ZULU)

Thanks Guys: On the Winnie Featherweight Classic info. The 1/8 twist is what I wanted to hear. Don, what kind of groups do the Feathers produce? I've never had one before....been stuck on heavyweights for a long time. I will be ordering a Featherweight Classic soon.....then later maybe stick it in the McMillan Featherweight stock. One thing at a time. I should just make it simple and buy another .308, but you know how it is....new/old things intrigue. I'm also interested in a CZ 550 in 9.3x62...another old one. Thanks again.

Jerry
MN, - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 16:50:58 (ZULU)

Doc King what target did you need. I still have a set from our last trip to Canada.

LeMay OUT

LeMay
MI, - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 17:46:02 (ZULU)

Sent by a friend:

You must take the little bit of time to read this all the way

through. It is time to take a serious look at our involvement

there. Every day there are news reports about more deaths. Every night on the TV are photos of death and destruction. Why are we still there?

The land is too large to secure all of it. The bad people

causing this damage can roam anywhere, and we can't possibly police

the whole place. Why are we still there? We occupy this land, which we

had to take by force, but it causes us nothing but trouble. Why are

we still there? Their government is unstable, and in the process of

changing. Why are we still there?

Refugees are fleeing by the thousands, driven from their homes. Why are we still there?

It will cost billions to rebuild, which we can't afford. Why are we still there? We can't even secure the borders. Why are we still there?

And to repeat. Every day we hear of more Americans killed in this

dangerous land. ******** It is clear! WE MUST ABANDON CALIFORNIA![Hello Arnold!]

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 17:56:16 (ZULU)

Jim LeMay

Great... can't find a graphic of that thing anywhere.

The "Charging Man" (Figure 11/59 I think) target. I'd like the sizes of the various "zones". Overall height, width, and the size of the 5 and "V" area. I believe this is the targer used at 600 and 800 meters (two together at 800 meter I believe). I believe they scored that thing as 4, 5 and "V" but if there are more zones I'd like each zone size.

Thanks.

Dave "Doc" King
U.S.A. - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 19:03:33 (ZULU)

Jerry,

I'm afraid I can't tell you what kind of accuracy to expect out of your Featherweight 6.5x55 Winchester M70, as I've never shot mine. I acquired mine for the action which will be the basis for a Terry Cross built 6.5x55 F Class rifle. Been waiting 10 months for Boots to make the barrel. Guess some things are worth waiting for.

Don

Don K.
Burdett, NY, Under God in the USA - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 19:20:19 (ZULU)

Just catching up on the DR after the christmas break. Had a good time with number one son. We got to do some shooting while he was home. We even have my son-in-law addicted to long range shooting now(HA).

Bobby,

Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. Being a trooper for 8yrs makes it even more personal. My prayers and thoughts are with the family.

Chris,

Jr. brought home his 6-250 an damn does that thing shoot!! Ballistics put it right between the 260 and the 6.5x284. He was averaging under .5 MOA for three shot groups out to 800yds. He shot a 1.2" group at 600yds!! There is just no recoil and it really lays them in there. This would make a great caliber for your wife.

The wind was blowing a tad and I had dialed in 1.25MOA for windage at the 700yd target and my son-in-law had nearly 4 MOAs of wind on his 308VS. You have to love those fag mags(HA). Oh yea, I got a new Jewell trigger for christmas!!!! Its going in my 308 that I am redoing.

I got the barreled action back just before christmas so threw it togeather and put it in one of Jrs. M-24 stocks and it shot solid .4s to .5s so I tore it apart an shipped it off to be teflon coated. I don't know when the McMillan will get here. I hope it doesn't take a couple of months. (Jr is still betting I will have the barrel shot out in two years, so coating it is a waste of time.(HA)

Pat
Monday, December 29, 2003, at 20:53:10 (ZULU)

Doc I'll get it out to night. Do you want me to make you some copys? I can do that and mail them to you. Thinking about shooting in Canada this summer?

LeMay OUT

LeMay
MI, - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 21:12:31 (ZULU)

Sir Wes hows that 338 Lapua working?

LeMay OUT

LeMay
MI, - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 21:16:47 (ZULU)

Joe,

A 42 pounder is headed your way. Be sure and look for a zip-lock bag amongst the jerky bags, there are 10 phone cards in it. And remind those recipients of the jerky to drop Art an Email......he is one helluva supporter of this cause! jerkybyart.com.

Sure enough, as I was paying for the postage, the little gal at the PO handed me an envelope with two tens in it. She was apologizing that it was not much. I was thrilled. This is from a working woman who appreciates our troops and wants to help. If it had been a single dollar bill, the message would be the same.

Fund now stands at $147.64. Thanks, Gal! I doubt that you will read this, but the Child Bride and I appreciate your concern for our people in the sandbox.

Y'all Stay Safe.

Bruce N. Robinson
Los Lunas,, NM, USA - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 22:15:46 (ZULU)

Barron-I've dealt with the self centered many times myself. But............calibrating mildots on a B-27, WTFO????????????????

WR Moore
Monday, December 29, 2003, at 22:19:37 (ZULU)

Hogs,

Nice to be back at home, though we did have a break-in while we were gone. Cost us driving back and out again that same day - 16 December - to be here when the police came, and for me to weld the burglar bars back on again, and to be back on the farm to tend the cattle and sheep again. At least they didn't take too much, and didn't mess with my computer.

Any case, that's not what I'm wanting to post. since I know a lot of you guys don't enter via the main page, just wanted to tell you that I've been catching up on older stuff to be posted, and I've put up some new things, and will hopefully be doing some more during the course of the week. Hopefully by end of the weekend I'll have all the old stuff sitting here on the PC worked off and posted.

Marius

Marius
Monday, December 29, 2003, at 22:54:44 (ZULU)

Markwell are you out there? Quick question. Are you going to be having an ASC III this year and if so do you have any dates yet? Reason I'm asking because there are other comps in the April/May/June timeframe and I need to plan accordingly.

Happy New Year all !!!!

TonyY
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 23:30:54 (ZULU)

Jim LeMay

Thanks for doing this. As long as I'm putting you out could you post the measurements AND make a few copies???

CFSAC this year????? Don't know but it's good to stay in practice. I've got pile of things going this year, 30th wedding anniversary, stinkin' inner passage cruise to Alaska, Elk in Colorado, maybe a wolf hunt in March, suprise critter hunt in April maybe, my son is due to OUTCHOP Iraq early this year so there's another possible OCONUS visit too and lastly there's that match at SMTC this fall.

I have a few rifles I'm waiting on, 300 WSM from G-A Precision and another 243 Win(lightweight hunter) from Tac-Ord. Toying with getting a 6.5 WSM!!! and pit it head-to-head with my 6.5x284, winner-take-all, something will be for sale after that shootout.

Dave "Doc" King
U. S. A. - Monday, December 29, 2003, at 23:55:08 (ZULU)

I am getiing into the art of long range shooting. I have had no prior experience with any thing past 150yrd. I am a fair shot and fairly handy with a pistol. I am almost done constructing my first over 500yrd rifle. I have a K98 large ring mauser action, GERMAN early production, with an ER Shaw #3 barrel mounted on a Boyds Vaminter stock channeled for free floating. This is chambered in .308 cal. and a tactical scope is enroute. I home loaded about 100 rnds. of match ammo, painstakenly to specs.

How well do any of you think this weapon will fair? Any advise for a first timer?

I am not some JACKASS who stumbled into this mind you, I did alot of research and had seasoned professionals aid me in this venture, not to mention that I have been around firearms all my life and help teach 3 classes on firearms safety and usage.

ANY critiques will be greatly apreiciated (probally misspelled that one!).

Icky The Great
PGH, PA, USA - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 02:01:19 (ZULU)

Icky,

Welcome and my compliments on your monicre <g>

Your setup is as good as the guy putting it together... what scope did you chose and how did you mount it to the rifle? What are your reloads comprised of (bullet, powder, brass)...detail how you assembled the loads.

OR....

You could shoot the thing and tell us how it did <g>

medicjim
Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 02:20:30 (ZULU)

Jerry,

I lied earlier, my 6.5 Sweede was a 1 in 10. The 1 in 8 or 1 in 9 will be better for the 140's I'd think. 9.3x62, very cool. There are many a professional hunter in South Africa with BRNO 550's in that cal that live by them. Sadly, a pissed off elephant got the better of mine while I was napping in Tanzania a few years back. If you have a good 550, may I recommend the 375 H&H with a 24" 1 in 12. It's been around a long time and is definitely the king of the medium calibers. I have used the 375 on everything from bunnies to cape buffalo and the round has never failed me as long as I did my part.

Icky,

Many people here might tell you you are wasting your time with a Mauser. Not me! I am currently building a 1920's Oberndorf in 308 for the wife, and between the BRNO's I have (550's and 523's) and a few others over the years, I love them. Hopefully you had it fluxed and re-hardened? Is the rear action screw sleeved? How tight is the chamber (bolt should close with light resistance on a go guage)? If the extracter had to be clearanced, was too much metal removed (common problem)? Is the ammo you are rolling suitable to the chamber and barrel twist? Just a few common ?'s to ask yourself. Keep that Mauser and cherish it, because you probably won't get out of it what you have in it!

Rob

Robert Martin
Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 02:37:10 (ZULU)

Robert: I used to shoot a .375 Mag, but sold it when the kids came along.....oh, yes, the .375 has long had an affectionate place in my heart, but I'd never use it except to blow holes in tree stumps. The 9.3x62 is just something that beckons me on with its hardy reputation.....something different to study and fine tune. I am not sure I will ever get one, but I just found a CZ 550 within reach. I also handled a .375 Mag CZ 550 today in a Cabela's store. Pretty nice, but it needed a McMillan stock.

I don't even hunt whitetails much anymore, but the 6.5x55 will be a whitetail gun. My son turned 7 today, and some day he will be big enough to start along the deer paths. The 6.5 will be a good caliber for his first deer.....always plan ahead. Thanks again everyone for the help.

Jerry
MN, Frozen Red River Country, USA - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 03:26:15 (ZULU)

TexasJim;

Welcome.

Robert M;

E-mail on the way. Also, do you have an oven large enough to put the barrels in? I done a stainless receiver with the Brownells baking lacqour. It turned out well and seems to be pretty tough. It's in a spray can. Spray it on like spray paint, let dry, then bake at 300-350* for 20 minutes. Easy and looks good.

Mausers;

I like them. It should be a winner. Pay attention to what Robert M. said about them.

I don't know of anyone who makes a 20moa tapered scope base for them, so shooting 1000 yards will be difficult. If you don't intend to shoot past 600-800, you'll be fine. If your scope has plenty of elevation, a tapered base may not be necessary.

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 03:36:59 (ZULU)

Icky:

Congrats on your new rifle. I think it will be a winner. :-) Many folks go with a Remington 700 action because if they don't like something, there are x hundreds of companies that make a different style part to go there. Well, the same idea holds true for the Mauser action.

My first recommendation when it comes to long range shooting is to get a log book. This log book makes the difference between being a serious long range shooter and just dinking around, IMHO.

Now, there are exceptions to this, but why not just count on not being the exception and keep the book. It's so much easier that way...

A log book allows you to know exactly what is going on with your rifle by telling you how it works normally, and how any changes you have made are effecting the accuracy of your rifle. Also, it gives you a much better idea of what is going to happen in a variety of situations.

For example, because I keep my log book, I know that after cleaning my rifle it will shoot one round exactly 1/2" high and 1/2" to the left of my point of aim at 100 yards in calm conditions. After that, all of the rounds will land within .25" of the point of aim. It has done this 53 times.

On the two times it did not do exactly this, the keeping of the log book allowed me to trace the problem to a difference in cleaning methods, and to repair my ill ways.

In fact, there are so many benefits to a log book that I really don't need to harp on them here.

Here is a review of a well respected log book by Sniper Country: http://www.snipercountry.com/TRGT_SniperBook.htm

Disclaimer: I do not have this particular model, but this would be my next choice. My log book is a computer print-out on Rite-in-the-Rain paper in military looking three ring binder. This allows me to just put in more entries as needed. It also lets me get 4 entries front and back on a sheet of paper. As such, I can keep one log book for a variety of my guns. The Rite-in-the-Rain stuff for the computer is available from Brigade Quartermasters.

Have fun with your new hole punch!

Sam
Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 03:52:54 (ZULU)

Thanx to: WR Moore & Robert Martin for the answers to my questions.

I think I got this down, I got a 30-06 Action (NEW Gun from Wally World) Stripped it down to Action only; Man I hate those Plastic Stocks.

I found a Used HS/Remington LA Stock in the Sniper Country Emporium, Man I love this place, all in one Shop Talk, Q&A, and For Sale Ads.

Anyway I plan to use that Action, with a Tubb Recoil Lug, New ER Shaw Barrel, Going to let Shaw chamber it, I have the Clymer Reamer & Gauges to send with the Action. I am planning on using a HS Precision De-tachable Mag & Trigger Housing.

Then from there all the other goodies, Scope, Base & Rings, Trigger etc etc.

I only wish I could get HS Precision to put the adjustable check on the Stock they never want to seem to do it? How is that Blackhawk Strap on cheek piece?

ANOTHER QUESTION: I need to know who makes a good logbook and maybe a book or some form of how to properly use the log, I am not a Military or Police trained shooter, but would like to keep a log for each of my long range guns. I have been keeping loading notes, and amount of shots fired for each of the guns so far, with some group size / distance notes. But I would really like to learn to do it correctly.

Again Thanx in Advance for all the help

Zero

Zero
Miami, FL, US - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 04:50:31 (ZULU)

Need some info and help, please.

Guy at the range has a .270 that is shooting sort of strange. At 100 yards he will get two shots almost touching, the next two-three shots will be touching, but will be 2-3 inches away from the first two shots. The next two or three shots will be 2-3 inches away from the previous small group. He has checked to make sure the mounting rail and rings are locked down and holding his new Leupold scope securely. The barrel is free all the way and the crown looks good.

Does this sound like a problem with the internal workings of the scope or is there another culprit at work?

Thanks

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 07:03:11 (ZULU)

Zero

U.S. Tactical supply makes an excelent logbook. Thier logbook includes many usefull data charts as well as formulas for ranging and windage. They also have an instruction manual online that details how to use each section of the logbook. Here is the weblink and email

www.ustacticalsupply.com Kevin@ustacticalsupply.com

All of the contestants at SQ 03 got one in thier welcome bags before the match. They are awesome, between logbook and the prize drawing I came away with gear worth nearly the whole entry fee. The top ten teams were all awarded outstanding prizes. No one left empty handed, besides the experience and priveledge of shooting with those gentlemen was priceless....Sorry for ranting but SQ03 was the most fun I've ever had without risking divorce or incarceration.

If you get the logbook you might as well sring for the cover also, trust me on this one its really a handy piece of kit. Kevin Swanson is a great guy to do business with very helpfull and prompt. Make sure and tell him you heard about them on Sniper Country.

Oh yeah good luck with the new rifle!

J.C. Sounds like he may need to bed the action. If the action shifts in the stock from recoil the rifle may shoot multiple zeros. I aint no Xpert but I have seen that before.

Robert Adcock
Far East, Texas, USA - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 07:20:55 (ZULU)

Joke time,

A guy runs a stop sign and gets caught by a policeman.

Cop says, "License and registration, please."

Guy says, "What for?"

Cop says, "You didn't come to a complete stop at the stop sign."

Guy says, "I slowed down, and no one was coming."

Cop says, "You still didn't come to a complete stop. License and registration, please."

Guy says, "What's the difference?"

Cop says, "The difference is, you have to come to a complete stop. License and registration, PLEASE!"

Guy says, "If you can show me the difference between slow down and stop, I'll give you my license and registration."

Cop says, "Exit your vehicle, sir." At this point, the cop takes out his nightstick and starts beating the shit out of the guy and says,

"Do you want me to slow down or stop?

Acehigh
Blmgtn, IN, USA - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 09:48:45 (ZULU)

Sam....e-mail to you through site utility.

Everyone....Catching up after Christmas with the family. Toy trains, video cameras: life doesn't get better!

Those in Uniform.... Thank you. We thought of, and prayed for you all through the holiday. Stay safe, come home. We need you.

Read "Boots on the Ground" this weekend. WOW!! If you haven't read this book, stop right here, go out and get it! This guy (forget the name, editor American Prostpect) went hwere the action was, and reports in this book in the best tradition of Ernie Pile. My Dad (11th ABN) is buying copies to give away. I may too.

(Belated) Merry Christmas to you all, and Happy New Year!

Bill McCormick
God bless our men, who place thier bodies, hopes, families, in harm's way for others. - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 12:30:08 (ZULU)

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See more references to boots on the ground in this book.

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, TEXAS, US of A!!!!!!!!!!!! - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 13:06:51 (ZULU)

Thanks Sharon!

Bill McCormick
God bless our men, who place thier bodies, hopes, families, in harm's way for others. - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 13:38:59 (ZULU)

Logbooks: I like the TRGT book, but, as Sam noted, I use a looseleaf binder. I had a TRGT logbook, but I used up all of the bullseye target pages the first match I went to, and at around $35 a pop, decided that I could do better on my own. The TRGT book is permanently bound, and once you use up one kind of page, you're done. You can buy the six-ring binders and RiteInTheRain paper from their website - just click on my name for the link. Then you can put your own pages in for whatever you need. RiteInTheRain has pre-printed forms you can buy, but I just use plain paper. I have a Fisher Space Pen, which writes in waterproof ink.

Then you can go to U.S. Tactical Supply, and get the cover for the binder. Nota bene: Get their cover for the TRGT logbook (spiral binder), because the RiteInTheRain six-ring binder fits just fine in it. U.S. Tactical Supply is here:

http://www.ustacticalsupply.com/datagear.shtml

Then you'll be set. I actually keep my all of my data, including barrel logs and shooting notes, for three rifles in one book, which is easy when you only have pages you need in it.

Lindy
On the south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 13:39:14 (ZULU)

ICKY...

Get in touch with me, I am within a half hour or so of you..... Have access to a 500 yard range, maybe we can get together.

Steve ~ hockeyref
GBG, PA, - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 14:14:00 (ZULU)

Guys on log books. I to use the TGRT book but ALSO use the Sierra Datapak I reviewed...see the review! I like it especially for field use as it is smaller than the TGRT and fits in a BDU pocket with ease! Also the cover comes with it and there is room for, MilDot Master, pen, pencil, calculator and a bunch of other things without it getting "crowded"! Check it out!

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 14:14:38 (ZULU)

OK Doc here you go. Fig 11/59. 6920-21-553-3004

Top to botton 44 inches

Side to side 17 inches

Top down 1-14 inch out side ring

14-18 inch

18-20 inch bulleyes

20-24 inch Xring

24-26 inch bulleyes

26-30 inch

30-44 inch out side ring

Side to side

1-41/2 inch out side ring

41/2-61/2 inch

61/2-71/2 inch bulleyes

71/2-91/2 inch Xring

91/2-101/2 inch bulleyes

101/2- 121/2 inch

121/2-17 inch out side ring

Xring = 2x4 inch 8 sq inch

Bulleyes 4x8 inch 32 sq inch

interring 8x16 inch 128 sq inch

out side ring 17x44 inch

Doc I'll hit you on your cell phone today to make sure I got the right home address. I got a pile of stuff to. Elk hunt in Mesa Co. Oct 9-13. Helping Rod with sniper 2 and 3. Takeing the better half to FL. some matches. And a hunt to TX in Dec for my friends TV show. And working on a DVD for Rod from sniper 2 and 3 this year. Some cool stuf on the DVD movers at 300,600 and 900 yds. Lots of cool vapor trails, night fire, and boat castings.

A new 300 WSM from G-A Precision that will a shoter. I like your idea from LRH page. The 3 guns your working on. 308, 300 WSM and the 338 Lapua. Getting lot of good feed back on it I see. I've ben thinking about one of those 338/416 JKL inproved. Getting an Elk at 2100 m sounds like alot of fun. Its just the sneaking of new gun safe's in the house is the thing I find hard to do these days.

LeMay OUT

LeMay
MI, - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 15:08:42 (ZULU)

Sarge:

The Sierra DataPac was on my list of things to look into. It seemed to be a better format for a long range rifle shooter than a sniper, from the data I was able to gather. However, I could find no place to order it. That didn't go well.

Sam
Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 15:27:50 (ZULU)

Doc King you have incomeing mail to your yahoo address of the 338 Lapua exit wounds and 300 SMK bullet.

LeMay OUT

LeMay
MI, - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 16:51:03 (ZULU)

Would someone with a current copy of SGN and ten minutes to help me please drop me a line? I'll keep it short and sweet, and appreciated.

Recognition given where it's due. The older I get, the more Bill Rogers is right. That says it all.

Jaeger
Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 17:26:19 (ZULU)

Ref: Flight Training

I stopped by the airfield this noon. My instructor was there. The new eight foot wind sock across the field was out straight without a wrinkle in it. As I opened the front door of the flight ops. the wind caught the door and blew it open with a bang. My instructor looked up and said, "It looks pretty dangerous out there today, you'd better go solo." We both laughed until the tears ran down my leg.

Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad)
Clifton, n, USA - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 20:30:09 (ZULU)

Sam go here: http://www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/SierraDatapac.asp

this is direct to my Review and has the phone number, address and web site link.

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 20:43:25 (ZULU)

test fire

Keith Bucklin
Fort Stewart, GA, - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 21:06:55 (ZULU)

Hey guys, I just finished breaking in the barrel on one of those stainless rem 700s with the 5R barrels on it (talk about some serious fouling!!). Any body have any experience with this model on what type of accuracy I can expect (I know all rifles are different)? And if so does any body have any pet loads for this rifle?

Keith
Fort Stewart, GA, - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 21:22:54 (ZULU)

Joe Mahon,

Incoming email to your mil address..thanks

Rick

Kimbershooter
Disputanta, Va., USA - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 22:00:08 (ZULU)

REF: 270s

Have a bone stock, pencil barreled, Remington Mountain rifle. Loves Federal Premium factory ammo/150gr. Nosler Paritions.

First three rounds cloverleaf. Every time.

Anything after that are all over the target. Every time.

brian k. sain
Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 22:07:51 (ZULU)

Bill McCormick,

You are dead on regarding "Boots On The Ground". Finished it in a few days about a month ago, fitting reading in where ever I could. Good read, interesting, very flattering of US troops from an embedded reporter. Gave me new faith in our reporter/media types(at least a little). As with all my library items, it is now in the hands of like minded co-workers. Related: kind of odd; my copy of "Dereliction of Duty" came back from the rounds with a strangely familiar sized hole through it in just about the right place. If ya looks at a cover, it'll be obvious.

Happy celebrating & a safe & prosperous new year to all.

Deputy Doug

Doug Bourdo
K town, WI, USA - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 22:15:43 (ZULU)

OK, first off, GLAD TO BE ABOARD!

Now for some buisness. Some of you asked about specs. Well to be honest I let the fine craftsmen of ER Shaw take care of the action and the rebarreling. I had no hand in it whatsoever. And as for the stock my very good friend Tony Molinaro of Dormont PA(suburb of pittsburgh) channeled the stock due to my lack of proper tooling. I however spoke with all persons working on my rifle. Tony showed me how he channeled and fitted the barreled action to the stock and explained bedding and lack of, barrel whip and so forth. I also saw the old barrel removed and the safety inspections of the action with and without the new barrel. The bolt was also done by ER Shaw and a fine job they did on it. I will soon have pics availible of completed project.

As far as the scope, I spoke with some locals who shoot long distances when possible and they ordered me a scope that would compliment my creation. I do not have details on it except that two of them use it for chucks and they pinpoint them at 600yrds.

The ammo I made was comprised of Hornady A Max molys in 168gr. A 42gr charge of VARGET(i know the book says 41.7grs, but i wanted to be differnt) and that rounds out above 2500fps. This is encased in VIRGIN Winchester brass with CCI Large rifle primers.

Icky The Great
PGH, PA, USA - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 23:25:32 (ZULU)

Not to be a spammer but I need to say this in responce the the hot tips and cold shots 9mm vs..45.

I shot a friends 9mm into a 20oz. empty coke bottle at 12 feet ant it captured the slug! Sounds like bull but no one could believe it at the range. The rounds were winchester white box fmj's at 115 gr.

I ain't never seen any .45 get stuck in a bottle, empty or filled.

Icky The Great
PGH, PA, USA - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 23:30:53 (ZULU)

Tony Burkes, you have incoming email from my yahoo addy.

Jon B, Marc P has some bits n pieces for you. I nearly crapped my self during a DIY stint tonight, was rewiring the cellar lights that Mrs managed to blow with a box of fish fingers (dont ask), godamn electric went off, oh balls,i switched the wrong trip, upstairs i went to find a torch, only to find wife, rusty roof neighbour and the kids on the door step and the population of whole street in the street, all with no electric, oh oh... what did i do?, any ways, turns out the whole damn village was cut off, nuthin to do with me,phew!! had me wondering for a split second though.

The more i look at this Swiss assault rifle the more i like it, seems they took all the good ideas out of the FN Fal and the AK and mixed em together to make what they got,i bet its tough as old boots, have to get a hold of one to shoot it..

Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 23:48:58 (ZULU)

Jaeger,

You have DR mail on the way.

Doc

Doc Holloway
The balmy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 00:00:34 (ZULU)

Gents,

Seems there was a system hiccup and my last post never reached SC. Try again.

Icky, welcome aboard. I don't even want to know where the name came from...

Lemay, Been sick with the flu the last three days(my days off)so have not tested the latest batch of .338 Lapau. I put 96.0 gr. of Hogdon's Retumbo under a Lapua 250 gr. Scenar. Should give about 2,950 FPS.

Have 75 Lapua cases ready to load when I find my load of choice. Anyone out there using Norma .338 Lapua cases? Comments?

Have almost a foot of snow here and more coming down this evening. Driving to work tomorrow will be fun.

Data Books: I have both the TRGT and the Chandler. Don't waste the money on the chandler model, IMHO. The TRGT is closer to what I need. Still, I need to design data book that supports my shooting. Most seem to be for range use and have darn little area for commentary. May just put one on my palm top and down load it later...hmmm, may be onto something there.

Broke out an old friend this eve. My Cylinder & Slide custom Hi-Power. Them folk sure do nice work. Wish the .40 S&W version had been out when I had my 9MM done. Currently shooting a Practical Model in .40 and it ROCKS, right out of the box. Best trigger I've ever seen on a factory Hi-Power.

Back to work with the miscreants, tomorrow. Let the games begin!

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Dallas, OR, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 02:57:02 (ZULU)

Just ordered the one shot kit from US Tactical. Looks like a good buy. Comes with logbook, cover, mildot master, slope doper, and trajectory cards. Not a bad starter kit!

Icky The Great
PGH, PA, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 03:31:17 (ZULU)

Mildot Master! Mildot Master! Mildot Master!

Some might consider your Shaw barrel a bit odd. Same thing with your choice of Mauser over Remington or Winchester for actions.

Your choice of Mildot Master is unquestionably kosher. You'll find it to be one of the best bits of kit you'll ever find.

Welcome Aboard, and Thanks.

Doc, didn't get through. Thanks anyway though, I'm pretty sure our FNG Icky has taken great care of me.

Icky, stay around. My guess is that you'll fit right in and be a major contribution. There's been way too many FNGs that didn't fit in. Besides, you've got my curiousity up about the Mauser.

But trust me, a fully functional and full power round of 9mm will not be caught by a bottle, unless it's on the far side of a kevlar vest.

Jaeger
Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 03:47:46 (ZULU)

Robert Adcock,

Thanks for the info. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees... or somethin' like that. Shoulda been one of the first things to pop into my CRAFT-infected brain.

Keith,

On the 700 with the 5R barrel... You can expect good things from the rifle. Several of the long range shooters here have 'em (including me) and they all shoot extremely well. Most of us are using 175 SMK's being pushed by 44.0 grns of Ramshot TAC out of Lapua brass and (believe it or not) set off with Remington 9 1/2 primers. YMMV

BKS,

Appreciate the input. Just glad neither one of 'em is mine. ;-))

Icky the Great,

On your 'lack of proper tooling'. Cheer up guy. Everybody has a 'shortcoming' of some sort or other. Sorry, couldn't help myself. <b/g> Welcome Aboard.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 05:57:11 (ZULU)

Anyone hear about USPSA starting a precision rifle catagory??

Out

Gooch
BF, AR, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 06:27:00 (ZULU)

Icky, "The ammo I made was comprised of Hornady A Max molys in 168gr." Please don't mention the "M" word around here. We will get WW? What are we up to now, 10-11-12? Oh well another WW will start. Suprised it slipped by the hawgs.

9mm shot in to a bottle and stayed inside? Could happen I guess if the bottle moved freely when shot and most of the force was used carrying it off the target stand. Hell I've seen people shot with a 25 auto at 50 yds and get them selves killed. Anything is possible but I wouldn't cout on it happening repeatedly.

Keith in coming email.

Well the year has come to an end and upon reflecting back. I relized we have not heard from Finger in a while. Any one keeping tabs with him? How's his job going getting any kool new toys for his unit to play with, ect...

2004 maybe the year of the return of Bravo! Diablo Azul could check in once in a while too. Yast I heard he was in Honduras or Nicaragua.

Happy New Year.

Dirty Steve, Out.

Steve Dickerson
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 07:56:06 (ZULU)

Icky or should I call ya Mr. Great?lol cool name!

Sounds like you may have the makins of a sure enough deathray in the works. I am sure you are gonna enjoy it. BUT!!!!!!

Be warned you have embarked on an endeavor that may well become an all consuming obsession (long range precision shooting). The Quest for the ever elusive consistant long range accuracy has driven many a man quite mad, destroyed bank accounts, and even doomed marriages. To seek after the perfect combination of mind, body, skill, knowledge, load, and weapon that will enable a mere mortal to regularly achieve the fabled cold bore hit (first round)on anything within the limits of his veiw. This is truly a noble endeavor !! But the way is dangerous indeed. Many who stay on the path become consumed by it, wild eyed , able to think of little else , and at ease only in the company of those who share thier Quest. These men eventually abandon the common speech of normal folk choosing instead to converse and rant in terms used and understood only by thier brethren MOA's, fps, mils ...leads..windage..elevation..ballistic coefficient..etc..etc. But be not faint of heart nor discouraged by the overwhelming task which lies ahead, relax and learn to enjoy the challenges of devoloping a skill that outsiders recon an almost mystical ability! With years of dedication and quiet meditation you and your rifle may become one, the two of you merged into an integrated weapons system worthy of praise respect, and even fear from those who would opress! You will know your rifle as well as a man might know his brother, what it likes to eat, when it needs to be cleaned, how it will perform under any condition,and what its limitations are(as well as your own). But alas even this is fleeting for all to soon its time to rebarrel and begin again!!!! ;)

Good Luck

Robert Adcock
Far East, Texas, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 07:56:26 (ZULU)

Pat,

sounds like the 6/22-250 has turned ou to be one hell of a rifle. I deceided on the 6BR through, and got all the tooling and brass for Christmas this year. I figure with a 31" Border tube I should be able to run 107SMK's about 2800+. Plenty fast enough for 1K if needed, but it's really going to be a 600yard rifle, with the wife and wee one shooting on fair weather days. The availablility of pre-made Lapua brass sold me man,, as I'm just too lazy to sort and expand as much as I'd need.

My main target rifles are still FagMags,, and as soon as I have barrels in hand, I'll have three ;))

Happy New Year fellas. Hope you CONUS PD's, Fire eates and EMT's have a quite night,, and all the snake eaters abroad do as well.

Chris...

Chris
Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 12:35:20 (ZULU)

Robert A,

That was one uncanny representation. And all along I thought it was me!

Sir Wes,

I switched to the Norma cases about a year ago. They are definitely cheaper, and seem a bit thicker in the web area, I don't get as much of a bulge there. The necks seem to displace forward a bit more though, I have to trim them a bit more. All in all I'm pretty happy. I am toying around with a new config for that gun though. A guy in South Africa has necked a .500 Jeffry down to .338 with 35 degree shoulders and a straight wall. The round is .20 in shorter than the Lapua and gets almost 400 more fps with 300gr SMK's. A freind sent me a scan of a target with a 64cm three shot group at 1000 meters!

Ickmeister,

You may want to shoot out that ammo and buy a neck turner for the next reload. Past 600, the WW cases I have tried have too much runout and tend to be a bit erratic. Also, put your FL die away and invest in a good bushing neck die. Norma makes excellent brass that takes alot less maintenance. Keep the WW brass and load Tubb's final finish in it and run 50 down the bore before you get serious. It gives a nice final polish to the bore. If you want to see the difference in your ammo, grab a box of Black Hills 175gr Match. Very few of us could handload ammo to match it! The 168's you are using from what I am guessing is a 24" barrel will break out of supersonic around 800 yds and affect accuracy after that. Start using the 175's soon so you can work up good dope for them (IMHO!!). Big word on powder charge---That gun could be 100 years old! You need to start off well below published max. Contact Shaw and verify that the action was reheat trated before you get above 40,000 psi. I'd hate to see the lugs ripped off or the action pretzelled so soon, and this happens more than you think unless the proper steps are taken. You will have to worry less about the neck of the case in the new barrel, but if the lugs were lapped and the bolt face and primary torque shoulder trued, the machining will eat right thru the original case hardening. High pressure rounds will force the bolt back violently thru the buttery unhardened steel if the bolt and action were not reheated. If you would like to check this independently, hit me with an email and I'll walk you through it using an independant machine shop.

Sorry so long Hawgs, just saw a potential problem there...

Robert Martin
PSL, FL, US - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 12:45:02 (ZULU)

Gooch,

There is something afoot about USPSA starting precision shooting. There was an article about it in one of the magazines about a month or two ago. The popularity of the long range shooting and especially the F-Class is growing faster then other shooting sports and USPSA among others are trying to get on board with setting rules and standards trying to be the first to set those standards. But the US F-Class Team (www.usfclass.com)has already got the backing of the NRA to have the rules set for F-Class and are working on the TR (tactical Rifle) rules. Wish I couls remember the magazine title, but it escapes me at the moment.

Steve S
Airborne vet Ft. bragg, NC, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 14:42:49 (ZULU)

>>>I shot a friends 9mm into a 20oz. empty coke bottle at 12 feet ant it captured the slug! Sounds like bull but no one could believe it at the range. The rounds were winchester white box fmj's at 115 gr.<<<

Mr. Icky,

Please ensure that your friend buys the ammo that comes with the powder in the case, not just the primer! That should nicely solve any further attacks by "assault bottles." :-)

HAVE A SAFE AND HAPPY NEW YEAR YOU MISCREANTS!

Moe

Moe Mensale
Boca Raton, FL, US of A - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 14:54:04 (ZULU)

Chris,

You will like the 6MMBRs. I have not shot one with the fast twist but shot out a 243IMP with a 1-12 twist an rechambered it to a BR an it was the most accurate rifle I ever shot other than a 22PPC.

Shawn is getting around 2970 out of the 105s and 107s. When we were doing load testing I had him at over 3000fps on my cronograph but didn't trust the readings. They were probably close because some of those were ruled out as to hot. (Loosened primer pockets) He had it cronographed down at Hornadys indoor range so it should be accurate.

The scarry thing is he can use my 6.5x284 data out to 600 or 700yds then he has to start adding some elevation to his (But not much). It falls inbetween the 260 an 6.5x284 on both wind and elevation.

ALL YOU HAWGS>>> Have a Happy New Year and keep your powder dry!!!!!!!

Pat
Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 14:56:41 (ZULU)

Alrighty, first off, I wish you all A HAPPY NEW YEAR !! and a safe passage out of 03 into 04.

ER Shaw, isn't hat the guy who was pioniering the helical fluting on the barrels?? and wasn't he doing something witrh progressive twist rifling?? any way,my trust and rusty 06 is about to get a face lift, got a price on a heym barrel this morning i couldn't resist, 130 euro's , so its becoming a piggy buster and i'm looking for something that won't rust so easy for my Scotland rifle, so all eyes are on a stainless Remy 700, word has it that Frankonia have one going cheap in 7 Rem mag, so i'll be looking in there on Friday, but what caliber am i going to go with if i get it, 7 mag i don't want, 300 neither, or will Jon B talk me into it, whats the score with sticking one of these new fangled short assed mags in a long action, any screwing around with the action to make it feed??? don't want another short action, keep getting me fingers stuck in the workings.

anyways, with all the commotion that will be about tonight its an ideal time to shoot all the neighbours cats withouit bieng noticed.

Back to work on the 2nd, my turn to look for the beagle, if only theyd have called it the spaniel,God Speed to all. Pete

Peter Lincoln
D - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 16:06:56 (ZULU)

For those inquiring about the new loopie scopes,... I received this from midway..

Steve,

The MidwayUSA Leupold Optics Sale begins on January 1, 2004. During this sale,

we are offering up to 25% off selected Leupold Optics! These prices are so good

that even our Customer Service staff operating the phones will not know how low

we're going to go until the New Year.

Leupold is discontinuing their great line of Vari-X 3 Scopes and modifying their

VX-2 Scopes. In 2004, Leupold will introduce their VX-3 Scopes as a replacement

to the Vari-X 3 and roll out their new line of VX-2 Scopes. What does all this

mean to you? Huge Savings on awesome scopes for a limited time! That’s

right...if you act quickly, you can be the beneficiary of these changes by

purchasing brand new Leupold Scopes at unbelievably low prices. These scopes are

covered by Leupold’s Lifetime Warranty. Please be aware that this is a limited

time offer, we have bought Leupold’s remaining inventory, supplies are very

limited and we cannot take backorders. Hurry, when these are gone there will be

no more 2003 models available.

Starting on January 1, please click on the following link (or copy and paste it

into your browser’s address bar) to view the Leupold Optics Sale:

http://www.midwayusa.com/epromolisting.exe?promotionid=100183

We really hope that you enjoy your new Leupold scope.

Steve S
Airborne vet Ft. bragg, NC, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 16:58:10 (ZULU)

Kent, I saw an ad in the Petersen's Rifle Shooter magazine I picked up a couple of weeks ago while out on the road. The USPSA was requesting input for what they called a Manual Rifle Division. Didn't give much detail other than they were trying to start this new division. I think their web site is uspsa.org or .net something like that.

However, if they do the same to long-range rifle that they did to ipsic I don't think it will be good for the average guy.

Keith

Keith
North Central WV, WV, - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 17:19:13 (ZULU)

I almost forgot. I hope everyone has a safe and happy New Year.

Keith

Keith
North Central WV, WV, - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 17:21:02 (ZULU)

Just a quick wish for a happy new year for all the shooters, both here and abroad.

John L

John Leveron
Mid Mo, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 17:24:46 (ZULU)

Happy New Year to one and all !!

Remember our Troops away from home.

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Wayne, New Joisey, U S of A - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 17:37:51 (ZULU)

HOGs, been working on book and hope to get done with it in new year.

I could use some help. Need anything you think is needed in a sniper manual sent to me in word format. Looking for schools that are good. Equipment you like, ballistic info you find works. History of sniping. Training of snipers. Anything else you can think of.

Thanks

Mike/Undude

mikemiller
CA, - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 18:07:10 (ZULU)

Happy New Year to all of you. Be especially careful out there this evening as it's "Amateur Night" and the once a year drinkers will be out in force.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The balmy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 20:30:09 (ZULU)

On the TRGT LOGBOOK, this is the logbook you need to get! I got one of the very first ones and it was the three hole one. I then picked-up a three binder with cover at the PX and it fit just right! Since I have had it I have added pages to it! This is easy since it is a three hole version! OH and by the way! Gooch was one of the designers of the logbook!

I also have the Sierra Data-pac! This is a good little logbook! It is small and you can carry it in a BDU pocket! It comes with a CD that has a lot of good information! Both of these are good databooks and worth having!

Mike Miller, I have already sent you any e-mail with some ideas for your book!

Everyone here have a Safe and Happy new year! And god bless our TROOPS!

SFC Pete Carpentier jr TXNG
C.C., TX, - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 20:39:55 (ZULU)

Rosterfarians,

A Happy and Prosperous New Year to one and all. May the New Year bring you all the luck and happiness you pray for, and may the worst of the future be way better than the best of the past. May all your shots go into one ragged hole, and may the deer be plentiful and close. May Mr. Big come and pay you a visit...

I've not been very active with the site this past year, but that will hopefully change for the next. At least I've just brought the Roster Archives up to date. Not too many outstanding things to post.

Take care you all, and God Bless

Marius

Marius
Pretoria, Gauteng, South Africa - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 21:15:34 (ZULU)

Dang near had my car towed from the terminal at Chicago O'Hare today. Trouble was, it was my marked squad. Had to go pickup a 'miscreant'(love that word Wes) juvenile on warrants(capias'). Dispatch didn't do as I requested so Chicago PD was not notified. The TSA folks said,"Yeah, sure just park there. The cops always park there!" Luckily, I had just gone in to figure what gate to go meet the little urchin. Came back out to retrieve leg shackles & belly cuff belt. CPD was there checking out the squad including a bomb dog. Good thing I left all the toys back at the office. Got a nice reception. Given threat condition orange, they were going to tow the car as a potential un-accounted for vehicle. Whew!! Good folks though given the volume of people going thru. Holy smokes, if I had to surveil many of the folks there, without profiling..... no way.

Friggin KSD dispatchers, friggin TSA folks...

Anaway, another year down, a few to go. Take care all.

Deputy Doug

Doug Bourdo
K Town, WI, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 23:04:25 (ZULU)

Ammo wars - Icky, Winchester white box is generic ammor that is designed to sell at rock bottom prices. Performance is another question. Some years back at a Pittsburgh area IPSC match, we chrono'd some out of curiousity. The 115 gr slug didn't break 1000 fps. This is not the kinda stuff you want to bet anyone's butt on and is no reflection on the ability of the 9mm as a service pistol.

WR Moore
Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 23:15:06 (ZULU)

Happy new Year All!!

I was wondering if any of Y'all had any experience in making a Gillie Suit? I thought I'd try my hand at one for hunting. I've seen some on the web. . . I don't want to wind up looking like a Wokie or a hay stack.

Any sugestions? I got some 3/4"X3/4" netting to start with.

Thanks,

Jim McNabb

Jim McNabb
Arlington, Texas, USA - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 23:34:49 (ZULU)

Happy New Year to all. Prayers for the troops out on the edge and the troopers on patrol locally.... especially tonight... watch out for the increased level of idiotry tonight.

All kinds of folks in the background wanting to do raffles... Lookx like 2004 might be alot of fun... Might wanna bookmark this place.

I have my eye on an AR10T out there.... only thing is the barrel is too short at 24" - LOL... just kidding there...

Anyone of younz out there have one of these?

thanks in advance,

Ken

ken hunter
Nokesville, VA, USA Under God - Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 23:39:00 (ZULU)

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