Thanks a lot for the good luck. Leaving bright and early in the morning for good old Quantico. Not looking forward to the winter up there though.
Sinister,
Have you done anything to your press to eliminate the movement between your die block and the press frame. I was thinking about drilling and tapping some holes in the press body and putting some set screws in to clamp the die block in place. This is a potential area of movement that could mis-align the die and the round, right? It might also make the powder metering more accurate, but I probably should individually weigh the charges anyway.
Semper Fi
Steve
Steve <TeufelHund7599@cs.com>
NC, USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 00:55:07 (ZULU)
The only "Benchrest"-queer case improvement I've done is to deburr the interior flash holes in the cases. I've hand neck-turned cases I use for hunting ammo with 165 Nosler Ballistic Tips, and have been very impressed shooting them through a 700VS with an M3LR.
Pablito, the Butner matches are very laid back (North Carolina country boys vs. Quantico Range 4 by-the-rules-book). Very efficient staff (match results are usually on the web within 24 hours). The next long-ranges are 9-10 March, usually a 600 yard (individual), a 600 yard (2-man team), and 1,000 yard individual match (three matches on Sat and three on Sunday).
Two-man teams means a coach can read winds for the two shooters (HINT! Betcha Rick Bowcher would help out if you asked real nice!).
Long-range matches are usually divided into two groups -- those shooting NRA rules (irons or glass sights, using a sling), and F-Class (any rest goes -- bipod, ruck, benchrest, sand bag, rolled up sleeping bag, etc.).
600 yarders are usually two sighters per shooter, 20 shots for record in 22 minutes. 1,000 yards is unlimited sighters, 20 for record, but all in 30 minutes total.
Can you tell we have fun, even if we're not low-crawling and getting chased? Maybe the only thing better would be a coordinated illum, 500 yard shot while lasing a big one onto Usama-Baby's camel.
Sinister Dave <mliwanag@nc.rr.com>
Fayetteville, NC, - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 01:29:25 (ZULU)
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia_china/story.jsp?story=105801
Earth to Omar: Don't bother buying the two pound can of coffee.
Bin Laden's nuke plans were a joke, and he didn't even know it. It's very funny.
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$JCN1ATIAAAQUFQFIQMFCFGGAVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2001/11/20/wbin120.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/11/20/ixhome.html
http://www.sit.wisc.edu/%7Eups/humor/bomb.html
Sheesh,...these idiots are the enemy commanders.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
"If they want a chance, let 'em go someplace else." - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 02:38:33 (ZULU)
I agree with Sinister Dave that for vertical stringing it's probably the consistency of your powder charge. I noticed the Dillon powder measure wouldn't throw a charge more accurately than around .6 or .7 grains with IMR 4064. Varget isn't quite as long and gangly as 4064, but I'd bet it's still not as accurate as you want. The Dillon measure if really very good for ball and flake powders, but long stick powders are hard for any powder measure.
That being said, I would like to suggest an improvement over what Sinister Dave suggested.
Get the AT-500 powder die with funnel. Mount this on the RL550B in lieu of the RL550B automatic powder measure. Then buy yourself a Lee powder measure (around $25 at Midway, I picked mine up on sale for like $15). It's a real POS as a powder measure, but you don't care. Adjust it to throw a charge within a half grain or so of your load, as Sinister Dave suggested, and trickle the rest in while it's on the scale. Then dump it down the funnel from the AT-500 powder die. This way you don't have to mess around with pulling a cartridge case outta the press and dumping the powder into the scale from the cartridge, and then back into the cartridge from the scale without a funnel.
The AT-500 press is simply an RL550B with most of the automatic parts stripped off so they can sell it cheap. It's really a killer press for loading precision rifle rounds. The AT-500 powder die just uses a funnel and you pour in a charge measured elsewhere into it.
This is exactly what I'm now doing on an RL550B to reload .308 with Varget. My powder loads are all within a smallish fraction of a tenth of a grain the same. I haven't shot the loads at long range to see what they do yet (our range goes to 600, but you can only shoot at 600 a couple times a month on Saturday mornings, and I haven't done it yet).
Plug for my brother. He's a Dillon dealer, he sells Dillon and other stuff online at is http://www.eguns.com
TBD <seth@pengar.com>
Southern, NH, - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 04:01:26 (ZULU)
Don't laugh. He's right. He will be in charge for as long as he lives... All 4 more days.
TBD <seth@pengar.com>
Southern, NH, - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 04:04:42 (ZULU)
A public THANK-YOU to the Great Feline- Killer!!
(We ought to put this guy in some kinda Hall O' Fame!!)
Semper-Fi!
Spud
dennis <usmcspud@mindspring.com>
merced, kalifornicateya, USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 05:16:32 (ZULU)
I would not use them on a tactical rifle.but would be happy to rely on them for hunting.(except varminting with a heavey scope, by heavey I mean more than 500g, or 1 pound)
However !! having said that, by far the best, simplist and most reliable mounting system on the market today is the good old weaver dove tail and rail.
Get a Badger, MWG(mounting solutions) Leupold or one of the other STEEL !! cross slot or picatinny type rails. epoxy or solder it and screw it to your rifle. then get some Badger, MWG(mounting solutions) Leupold Mk4 or other tactical type rings, (with the nut head, not a screwdriver slot or allan key) get a reliable torque wrench that will do 65 inch pounds(thats handy because thats what the HS stocks need to be tightened at, and the AICS for that matter.) and you have a system that will dismount and remount with 100% reliability, time after time after time.Ive got this set up on 3 remington 700's, one is a long action and 2 are short, I can use the 1 scope on all 3 rifles by removing it retorqueing and then doing the individual adjustment to zero that I need for each rifle(pre tested, value in clicks noted)Ive tested this over and over, always 100% return to zero.
Bolt, get some steiner 7x50's and use em for everything, Steiner are a 100% reliable binocular, first class optics, Im so impressed with mine, Im giving them to my son and buying the same type again, definately as good as Zeiss or Leica,oir Swarovski, and a damn sight cheaper, can't comment on IOR haven't seen any. Pete L
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 08:06:25 (ZULU)
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001530003-2001533140,00.html
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
"If they want a chance, let 'em go someplace else." - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 12:42:04 (ZULU)
We hunted all day yesterday and Andy drew blood. He planted two slugs in a buck and we tracked until the trail was lost. A learning experience. (Shot Placement & It ain't a deathray)
Ref: SP Shoot
I did ok, 10th. Thanks for the kind words Tony M.
Attn: MikeM (Undude)
I'll be at Badlands April 26,27 & 28 for sure. I might go for some more training too. I've got to get my 2002 training schedule finished.
Attn: Terry C.
Amen on building the SWS tough. It's gotta be as tough and reliable as a hammer because you never know. Stuff happens. By the way, good shooting in Texas and "nice jacket".
out
I
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 12:48:32 (ZULU)
MIKE MILLER: Seconding your last word on triggers. My Anschutz Exemplar had a 9 oz. trigger and it was fine for the silhouette game where all the gentlemen stood and politely shot in the calm of morning. Just the opposite of most callouts. For years I've used 2.5lbs as standard. All my personal rifles as well as the City's rifles have safe 2.5 triggers. The FBI (Famous But Ignorant), ASA and apparently Remington are in agreement on 3.5. so I guess I'll be adjusting 'em up to cover my guys, just in case the unthinkable happens here.
LITO: SO, which one you gonna buy ? They sure shoot good them Anschutzens. Them little off hand rams at 100 will surely test your mettle.
As my friend Rick B says "Hold hard"
Brian
brian k. sain <sain225@excite.com>
- Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 13:02:26 (ZULU)
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/000/593emgsj.asp
If its not one thing, its another.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 13:06:53 (ZULU)
trinivoid's seem to be superior in smaller lighter optics in the light gathering department. Lito' knows more about this and perhaps can correct me if I'm wrong cause this is based on observation and not optics knowledge. Steiners have a tendency to dump their shell after a lot of crawling around but I had one pair I found in a road that had been literally ran over for weeks squashed in the dirt of the road and a small scuff on the rubber covering was the only problem. I used them for years. I use a pair of 10X20 Leica's these days but only prefer them over the steiners because of their excellent clarity and light gathering approaches others much larger and I can stick them in my shirt pocket. For what it's worth.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
, KS, USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 13:13:04 (ZULU)
The Moro's never go away. We'll wind up going in there before it's over. The Regular Phillipine Govt can't handle that either.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
, KS, USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 13:32:53 (ZULU)
The following is off the top of my head. If someone finds an error in spellings, dates, etc, that's fine. The principle I'm going to demonstrate is sound, and it fits.
In 70 C.E. the Roman province of Judea rebelled. It seems that a group of rebels found a place to which they could retreat where the Roman Army couldn't follow. Rome dispatched General Flavius Silva to quell the uprising. The rebels had withdrawn to a high plateau that was extremely well provisioned. The only access was by a foot path that was laughably easy to defend. One guy could stop any enemy progress up the path, and a couple of guys above would be able to kill attackers like the proverbial fish in a barrel.
So Flavius assembled a huge force of engineers and built a huge ramp straight to the top of the plateau. When he got to the top, the rebels had comitted suicide. Then he went to Jerusalem, sacrificed a pig to Zeus on the alter of Solomon's Temple, then destroyed the temple.
It was an incredible effort to kill a very few rebels. Many historians have said that such an effort was folly. Those historians never thought of it from the point of view of a potential rebel.
Bin Laden preached that we were too fearfull to fight. The consensus among the English Major elites was that defeating bin Laden in Afghanistan was impossible and that even attempting it was folly. We are now blasting their last formations into hamburger. Al Qaeda's fearless leader is running like a shot-at jack-rabbit.
Now we finish these suckers off. Flavius Silva would approve.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
"If they want a chance, let 'em go someplace else." - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 14:15:13 (ZULU)
Digital barometers are far and few. There are watches with them, designed for mountain climbers, but they aren't accurate enuff for shooters... but look at this goodie. Gives you a lot of stuff in one pak!
http://www.sciencecompany.com/store/store.cfm?site=http://www.secure.sciencecompany.com/acb/showdetl.cfm!!DID=19!Product_ID=898!CATID=24
-
Brian... I'm hot for both the Running Boar rifle, and the Biathalon. Will probably order the Boar rifle first... that threaded muzzle, and hollow threaded weight tube begs for a $200 tax stamp and some machine work :))
>"Them little off hand Rams at 100 will surely test your mettle."<
HA!... make them little steel Cats, and I will come out and play ;))
'lito
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Osama Yo'Mama & Co... no need to run, you'll only die tired!, - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 14:29:20 (ZULU)
http://www.nkhome.com/ww/wwindex.html
They seem to be a pretty handy little tool. Plan on getting one when my new rifle comes in.
Steve D.
Steve Dickerson <ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 14:54:35 (ZULU)
Long time shooter/hunter, new to long range shooting.
I have a couple of questions about a recently purchased Remington
700P in 308 cal. Was thinking about a Jewell trigger, but would rather put that money towards a Leupold scope. Can the factory trigger
be set to 2.75-3 lb by a competent smith? The other concern I have is the long throat (bloodsucking lawyers). Can the factory chamber be redone to eleminate the long throat? If so, can anyone reccomend a
reliable smith who can do what I want.
Thanks,
Bob
Bob <rja1@computer.net>
- Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 15:05:28 (ZULU)
Thanks in advance,
drmarc
drmarc <drmarc@se-tel.com>
Hillbilly, Kentucky, USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 15:24:12 (ZULU)
GO here... it's a great article written by a very nice guy who is handsome, has cuth, polish, and manors ;))) HA!
http://www.snipercountry.com/RemingtonTriggers.htm
Don't set the factory barrel back! The factory barrel is not worth the labor - it only costs Remington about $18 dollars. Replace the barrel with a Douglas Air guage with the same contour, and you will be very happy.
-
drmark... where you been for the last month... go back to around Oct 20th, and start reading forward... there was a lot of talk on brass. I've switched to Lapua!
Pablito
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Osama Yo'Mama & Co... no need to run, you'll only die tired!, - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 15:56:23 (ZULU)
You may want to try it first. With Remington BR brass mine shot .5s and under consistantly. Oh yea and what 'lito said too.
drmark..
Yes, there is a big difference, Norma is much better because its very, very consistant. Lapua and Norma brass are both the finest you can buy and well worth the extra that you pay for it.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 16:33:58 (ZULU)
I never found an answer to that last question I asked you via e-mail, hollow point aerodynamics. :)
My question about the brass is really if you were buying already loaded match ammunition and had the choice would you choose that which is loaded in Winchester or Norma brass, all other things being equal?
Sorry Pat, did not see your post before I posted, thanks for the reply.
drmarc
drmarc <drmarc@se-tel.com>
Hillbilly, Kentucky, USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 16:44:01 (ZULU)
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-masty112001.shtml
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 17:49:47 (ZULU)
Thanks guys, I think I will go with the survival article, but want to read whats already posted to make sure its not already covered.
RANGECARDS:
Just a note on something Ive been doing here for static defenses which has worked great.
Take a digital photo from helicopter of the area, download it on computer, insert tables from MS Office so it has grid lines on it, number one side, letter the other side for a simple grid reference system i.e. A4 shows a grid on the photo.
To improve on this, we plot out all trails, streams etc., which are not visible in the photo with MS Paint onto the image and also plot out fighting positions, sensor locations etc., then post them in the command posts and fighting positions (laminated and oriented).
This has been incredibly effective and only requires minimal logistics. It is particullarly effective since we have so many different entitites to coordinate with during attacks etc., which all include language barriers etc. Even the air assets have copies of these in target folders so they can be called in for CAS in a very simple manner.
BILL GATES WOULD BE PROUD!!
jefe <diabloazul01@hotmail.com>
- Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 17:57:05 (ZULU)
I can't find the aerodynamic question... send it to me again.
Cornbread and apple stuffing for Thursday's Cat... 'yote Bate would be prowd ;))
'lito
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Osama Yo'Mama & Co... no need to run, you'll only die tired!, - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 19:13:09 (ZULU)
Only trouble I have is findin the wish bone! My wife says there makin green Cat soup now! Don't sound all that good to me!
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
, KS, USA - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 19:36:18 (ZULU)
The Temple was destroyed in AD 70, Masada fell in AD 72/73.
"In 66 c.e., a band...fled...Jerusalem and took refuge at...Masada,...in 72 c.e., two years after Jerusalem had fallen and the Temple was destroyed...Flavius Silva marched against them...The Jewish camp was pelted from below with catapulted rocks. A breach was made in the protecting wall; a huge ramp of light-colored earth...was erected on one side, but the Roman attempt to penetrate proved unsuccessful...after seven months...the Romans set the wooden barriers alight, and the Jews were forced to make a fateful decision."
They committed mass suicide.
The point of the story remains the same: The Romans understood that they had to do whatever it took to make examples of their enemies that potential enemies would not want to emulate.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
"If they want a chance, let 'em go someplace else." - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 22:06:40 (ZULU)
Reckon you could pull some strings and get a chopper to take some fly over pics of my hunting land? It is about 1 mile North of the Blue Ridge Parkway where it intersects highway 218. Both side of the road about 1000 acres. An Apache would be nice, specially if I can fly along. All my hunting buds could then get palm pilots and the newbies wouldn't be so confused when we tell them to go to stand x.
On matches.....
I made a play with some of the club members on having a match on our land. Got some raised eyebrows but I don't think they will go for it.
On Quantico, etc.....
Back in 19 ought 72, I was the bird kernal of the Police Explorer post here in Winston. We went to Washington to do some sight seeing and stayed at Fort Belvoiur(sp?) in the barracks. I couldn't figure out why all the soldier guys were saluting me everywhere I went. Finally, a real bird kernal said it might be a good idea to take the birds off my uniform while on the base. DUH!!!!!!!!!
Butner matches....
Would sure be great if a bunch of Rosterferians could get together. Maybe we could even get Bruce and Bill off the prarries and headed East. We could have a pig pickin in honor of the demise of OBL. We could even BBQ a nice tabby cat for Lito San.
A good fun match would be to low crawl from birm to birm and fire off 4 or 5 shots in a given time limit.
Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 23:13:53 (ZULU)
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$J1PJY3QAABSNBQFIQMFCFGGAVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2001/11/21/war21.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/11/21/ixhome.html
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
"If they want a chance, let 'em go someplace else." - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 00:55:19 (ZULU)
The first round had impacted the right edge of the front plate, the 7/16" thick one. It knocked it away from the 9/16" plate and at a 45 deg angle to my line of fire. I was unable to see the shift of the front plate from my firing position. The second round hit the plate dead center but on a 45 deg plane. The round penetrated 90% of the way through at major diameter with the steel penetrator core punching a neat 3/32 hole through the remaining 10% of the first plate and glanced off the second plate. I am going to duct tape the plates together and try again Fri, weather permitting. I want to get a good center hit with them taped together. The film was spectacular, especially on frame by frame advance. Lots of sparks and debris but was over in 3 frames. Was impressed with the vid cam tho. Picked my voice up under the pavillion 200 yds away! Anyone want to take bets on whether both plates will be penetrated with a center hit while taped together. Inquiring minds want to know!!
While at the range a couple of guys came up with some nifty hardware. One guy had an ar-10 with stainless bull barrell and night vision scope of some type mounted on a picatinny rail. The other had a savage w/Springfield armory 2nd gen w/ the bubble level inside and a choate ultimate sniper stock. Had never seen one in real life (stock) but it didn't look as cheesy as the pics I have seen. He said it was 1/2 MOA on a good day and MOA on a bad one. It was getting dark quick and the night vision guy set up some targets at 50 yds to check zero and adjust. I watched him mount the scope there on the range. He had a filter on the front of the scope to filter out the twilight we were still having. His first shot hit at 9 o'clock in 3" black bull at 50 yds. The next shot was at 3 o'clock. He fiddled with the scope base to make adjustments and shot again. Getting ready to fire the fourth shot something took a dump.. He thought batteries. After replacing batteries, he couldn't get the scope back online. Damn Murphy and electronic, battery powered goodies anyway. I think it was too light out to be using night vision. He was pissed to say the least. I was not all that impressed and again it reinforces the truth about electronics f$%#ing up given ANY chance! Though I'd of liked to see how it would work under starlight conditions. I guarantee at 50 yds with my bolt gun and Loopy M3 I could one hole em in the kind of light he was shooting in. The other guy fired a group at 100 with some 175 gr SMK and had some 168's loaded pretty hot with varget, (46 GR) but it was getting dark so I didn't hang around to see how the group sizes were. All in all I would say Murphy had his way with at least two of us, and who knows. I didn't see how the savage performed but I would hate to think that Murphy scored a hat-trick!
str8shot <mshockley@hotmail.com>
south central, MI, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 00:58:23 (ZULU)
Bob,
Before you do any adjustments to your trigger try spraying the crap out of it with brake cleaner or the like first. That will get rid of the manufacturing junk. Lube it up with lighter fluid or your favorite light oil and see what it feel like.
How do you know if your Remington is brand new?
It's filthy!
Good luck
TR <Rokchukrslave@aol.com>
Portland, OR, - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 01:02:47 (ZULU)
Hey all -
I have several specific questions that I have been pondering for a while. Keep in mind that I have read both pros and cons on the roster in regards to the questions I am asking, but this topic just seems to keep bouncing in my head. So I want to put it to rest for myself.
1st. What do the 8541's stuff in their ALICE pack when doing range time? I know what they would most likely carry during an operation but I am curious to what they carry at the range.
2nd. Given that the Corps is shifting over to the M40A3, and given that not every 8541 has received it, are the Marines starting to use bipods with their new M40A3 rifle? If so, why and if not, why?
3rd. What is the doctrine behind the use of an ALICE pack, Butt pack or Sand Bag as oppose to the use of a Bi-Pod? Why is it that the majority of the world's sniper community uses a Bi-Pod or have one attached to their rifle and the Marine Corps does not with the M40A1? Is it because the M40A1 only has one stud and that stud is for the sling? If this is the reason, has the Marines in the past expressed desires to have a Bi-Pod attached to their rifle (M40A1)?
4th. When stalking, is the Bi-Pod a hindrance? E.g. catching foliage when crawling. Also, is weight another consideration for not having a Bi-Pod?
5th. I have examined many photos of 8541 and their Army counterpart. What I am wondering about is the amount of gear either carried or worn. I would think the lighter the operater is the better. Movement and speed is essential next to stealth for a sniper. Can one of you guys fill me in on this. I remember doing a few patrols back during Valiant Blitz (1989), wearing my 782 gear and carrying my A2 and what a burden that was; not an easything to do. I do understand that the means of movement between patrolling and stalking or moving into a FFP is different.
My conclusion, based upon prior correspondences and reading the roster has brought me to this thought. I think that having a BiPod is a good idea. I do think that it is a tool that can be used when needed. Does it need to be on your rifle all the time? I don't know. What I do appreciate about not having the Bi-Pod on the rifle is the reduction in weight. Also, I think, when moving toward a FFP or just stalking, that the reduction in weight is a plus. Also, I believe that one will not find a flat surface like that of a rifle range when in the field. What I do think is that the sniper will use the terrain to his benefit in which he will use cover, depressions, concealment and what not to take aim and accomplish his goal.
Thanks for your time and I do appreciate your response. One last thing, I do hope that I have not opened a can of bad worms on this posting ;-)
Darren...
Semper Fi
Darren... <ddong@usmc.net>
S.F., CA, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 03:06:56 (ZULU)
Out,
TonyM <tam308@aol.com>
FL, US of A!!!!!! - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 03:43:57 (ZULU)
I can answer a few of your questions. Someone else willl have to get the doctrine part. I can guess at it, but it would be a guess as to why we HAD to do it that way. I am out now, so someone else will have to get the M40A3 questions.
1 In my platoon, the stuff we had in our packs on the range was the same, or at least supposed to be, as what we carried in the field. Many times, in fact, we shot off our h-harnesses, or butt packs rather than ALICE since we would pretty much always have those.
4 I can't recall stalking with a bipod, but I have one on a personal rifle now. It looks like it would definitely catch on foliage. One trick I have heard of is to put a sock over the muzzle and over the bipod. I guess it would function sort of like the "nose cone" on a drag bag. Weight of the bipod is very low, I don't think it would be much of a consideration. Now, I have seen some rocket scientists take the bipod off of their SAWs in an effort to "lighten it." Good luck firing that machine gun from the prone at 750 rpm off of that plastic ammo box.
5 The lighter the better. Generally speaking, what you carry depends on mission and weather.
You mentioned Valiant Blitz 89. That sounds familiar to me, but time may be clouding my memory. At that time I was in E/2/3, and we spent 89 in our home station of Hawaii (yeah, that's right, HAWAII!) and also did a pump to Okinawa with a side trip to the P.I. and Hong Kong. Does any of that match up to Valiant Blitz, or am I confusing different operations?
Semper Fi,
Mark <markj12pct@aol.com>
US - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 03:57:47 (ZULU)
This diagram from Anschutz show why well designed 2-stage triggers are mechanical safer than all singlestage types. Before first stage is pulled sear-engagement has a large overlap. When first stage is pulled to second stage searengagement is reduced to a finely tuned singestage trigger. "Slamfire" is a nonissue even if total triggerweight is .25 pound.
http://www.anschuetz-sport.com/english/ansch/info/produkte/trigger.htm
Anschuts-triggers costs 2/3 of the Jewell in Norway.
Link to Anschutz: http://www.anschuetz-sport.com/english/ansch/index2.htm
TorF <torf@aftenposten.no>
Oslo, Norway - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 08:31:25 (ZULU)
http://www.anschuetz-sport.com/pdfs/pdfs/76.pdf (page 3 in PDF document)
The rifle should be ordered with 1 pound(500gram) or 3 pound(1500gram) twostage trigger. The standard 100gram(3,5 oz ?) is not practical for anything else than BR os MS.
TorF <torf@aftenposten.no>
- Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 09:37:02 (ZULU)
Okay so this is WAY off topic, but I figured some of you might just think of somethign other than Osama in the next few days. :-)
Thanksgiving is almost here and it is time to sit back and enjoy our families and friends. (Or be thankful that we have *X*-wives/inlaws). This year more than most I think that we may be thinking about how we touch each other's lives when we sit down to our table.
One of the more special movies and one that directly hits on the philosophy of touching others lives for good, has become a Thanksgiving Eve tradition.
The Movie "It's A Wonderful Life" has touched many people's hearts. It's A Wonderful Life extols old-fashioned values and its Norman Rockwell like way of presentation (being filmed right after WW2) brings us back to what America really stood for and the dreams the men returned home to.
ANYWAY.. I run a webring devoted to It's A Wonderful Life. I'd like to share it with you and your family this Thanksgiving.
Please feel free to stop by http://www.memorableplaces.com/iawlring/iawlringmain.html and have a look.
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
Charles
http://www.memorableplaces.com
Charles of MemorablePlaces.com <tenarius@memorableplaces.com>
CCCPalifornia, - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 11:14:21 (ZULU)
I watched and listened to some officers from the NHARNG Mountain Warfare school on C-Span last night. They talked about "aclimatization" to altitude and equipment. It was interesting. The best part was when this "no-neck" SF/Ranger O-6 said that inspite of all the improvements in technology we've found it impossible to reduce the weight of the soldier's rucksack. He went on to say that the suggested load should not exceed 30% of the soldier's body weight but everybody is humping 100 lbs. or more. What a shame....How do you win a foot-race with the bad guys if you're loaded down like that? Remember boys and girls, you've got to be able to shoot, MOVE and communicate. Put physical fitness near the top of your list guys it looks like things haven't changed much over the years.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 11:17:15 (ZULU)
On the upcoming Guerilla phase:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61132-2001Nov20.html
Sounds like it will require patience and a high pain tolerance.
On lofty war-aims. Keep in mind that the present government of Iran took power when we (Little Jimmy Carter) decided that the Shah just wouldn't do.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61426-2001Nov20.html
K.I.S.S.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 12:27:36 (ZULU)
I don't know about your deployment during that time but it does sound about right. From 1986 to 1989 of December, there was three main type of operations with the ROKs. The first was Team Spirit, the second, Bear Hunt and the later is Valiant Blitz.
I actually had a budy name Yang Quo who came from Hawaii to be with 4th Battalion 12 Marines. He was an 0811 (arty).
Darren...
Semper Fi
Darren <ddong@usmc.net>
San Francisco, CA, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 13:22:39 (ZULU)
I'm not sure this is a good thing. The main ingredient in Birchwood Gun Scrubber is Trichloroethylene (TCE), a very effective degreaser which evaporates quickly and leaves no residue. Or oil. In Detroit in the early 80's we used boiling TCE for degreasing experimental transmissions. Amazingly effective.
Brake cleaner also contains trichoroethylene, but has additional stuff which does not evaporate quickly, and needs to be wiped off.
Out of curiosity, I tried this in a side by side comparison while doing a brake job for a friend. The brake cleaner will penetrate and dissolve grease and oil, but it leaves a residue. This is probably OK for big parts that can be wiped off and immediately oiled (like the individual parts of a dis-assembled bolt) but not for a complete trigger or bolt assembly where the nooks and crannies can retain this residue.
I have no data on what the residue does long term, but I think possibly it may act like WD-40 and become gummy.
All the usual disclaimers apply.
Duman <steve_duey@hp.com>
Denver, CO, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 14:44:13 (ZULU)
Sitrep. This says there will be no slack for Foreign Taliban in Kunduz. Letting them go would stupidity worthy of the State Department. If they get out and disperse into the Al Qaeda network, they will be a BITCH to deal with. We would pay with tankers of blood. This is no joke. Kill them now:
http://wire.ap.org/?SLUG=ATTACKS%2dAFGHANISTAN
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
"This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no foolin' around." - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 14:45:41 (ZULU)
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 14:50:26 (ZULU)
Shoot straight,
Steve D.
Oh, heard some dumbass reporter on MSNBC say something about Bush is becoming to powerfull. Ok, how does one who holds the highest office in the most powerfull country in the world become to powerfull? Everyone knows the position and the power was there before he went into office.
Steve Dickerson <ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 14:57:39 (ZULU)
Get a Starlight case.
http://www.starlightcases.com/
I just ordered my 2nd from them a moment ago. They make a great product and they give a discount to DR folks.
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
SJ, CA, USA! - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 15:38:11 (ZULU)
When I was down at Pendeleton, in May, I had the only M40A3 and I was the only one with a bipod on an issue rifle. This is the beginner/8541 class not the SOTG Class (Cant say for them but I know thye had atleast one M40A3)
Instructors at the 8541 had a few bipods on thier persoanl rifles but the M40A1 has no means to support a bipod without installing a stud and the first thing that comes to mind is the studenst are ordered not to take the rifles out of the stock so what do you think they would do if a 8541 dared to put a stud into the stock?
Weight of what was carried? Dang pretty heavy loads. They also have full ghillies to deal with and all the other gear. Take a look at the load out for an 8541 and you will see what they carry. They made them carry most of it all the time. Train babbie get babies. Train Marines get Marines. Sounded good to me and now my guys always have to carry everything they deploy with and can only use what they carry.
Hope it helps.
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 15:43:01 (ZULU)
Happy Thanksgiving All !!! God bless our troops !!! Safe Holiday to all...
TonyY <ayackowski@pershing.com>
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 15:54:27 (ZULU)
Bi Pods;
The only way to carry one is in your pack to keep weight off weapon.
The only way to use a bipod is to have it on your weapon at all times!
The only time you need a bipod is when you don't have it!
The only better rest than a bipod is something that takes more time to deploy.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
, KS, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 15:57:19 (ZULU)
I don't know about carb cleaner. I'll get some and try it out this weekend.
Duman <steve_duey@hp.com>
Denver, CO, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 16:18:21 (ZULU)
If you have to shoot after a hard sprint or climb where your heart feels like it is going to explode and the crosshairs are impossible to calm; Get into position. Suck in a real deep breath and fill your lungs. Then, blow it all out quickly and forcefully. You will have a pretty long respiratory pause immediately afterwards and should be able to break your shot within it. It has worked well for me and others. Give it a try.
FYI, Brian
brian k. sain <sain225@excite.com>
- Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 16:18:22 (ZULU)
You should write little proverbs!! Where do you come up with some of these things(HA).
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 16:19:43 (ZULU)
I can second that: get the Starlight. Great case, especially for the money and really nice people to boot.
Go here: http://www.snipercountry.com/StarlightCase.htm
Geoff M
Geoff M <kill@internetwis.com>
WI, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 16:31:16 (ZULU)
We can do training at Jarrett's place like no other. Ask anyone that was at this years about what options we could run. I think you will be pleased. The US Army sent a couple to last years class. Ranger Sniper (1st at Benning School) gave a great review of the course.
We can taylor the class to the students abilities.
Let me know guys we need to schedule soon.
Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Ca, - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 17:18:16 (ZULU)
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-fumento112101.shtml
It would sure be easier it they made Kandahar their Alamo.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 17:38:41 (ZULU)
Actually I even did write a parable once. I'll send it too you if I can find it.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
, KS, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 18:19:38 (ZULU)
Ok, off the soapbox. For anyone looking for a cheap and simple, yet strong and stable support for a spotting scope, I just stumbled across a nifty little trick. One of the citizens in my district was throwing away an I.V. stand, and I just knew I could find a use for it. Big, 5-arm bottom platform, steel telescoping rods, too cool. Take the top plug out of the inner rod, then insert the plug from any cheap tripod into it. Drill through the rod and plug, put a self-tapping screw through the whole thing and VOILA!....a $100 metal NRA Highpower scope stand for next to nothing. Weld a spike to the center mounting bolt on the bottom and Monica Lewinsky couldn't blow it over.
Watch the front sight.
Charles S. Hunt <dpms223@aol.com>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 18:29:23 (ZULU)
I am working on my very late review of the ASA now!
I promise! Maybe tomorrow I won't procrastanate so much!
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
SJ, CA, USA! - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 18:38:13 (ZULU)
THE PARABLE OF THE BEAR- By BIll Rogers
Once upon a time a bear lived in a cave in a remote area of Columbia where he was quite alone and happy. A truck went through and a crate of chickens fell off and scattered chickens all over the road. The Chickens quickly regrouped (flocked) and finding themselves alone and desperate sought refuge in the cave of the bear. The Head Chicken a young and cocky bird with all the answers was eventually set upon by his flock with complaints on the bear. "He smells bad and all he does is snore and growl. He makes one trip a day outside and just pees on trees in a circle and has no use at all. We need to get rid of him!" The cock thought and thought and finally told his flock to just simply run up and peck the bear and annoy him every chance they got, figuring the constant agrivation would cause the bear to leave. The enevitable happened and the bear left grumbling and tossing trees all over the landscape. Little is known about the chickens after that except that they were last heard celebrating at great length over the departure of the bear. Of course they were eventually eaten (to the bird) by the Jaguar that moved into the cave upon the bears leaving.
MORAL- Be Carefull what you wish for and how you use your pecker because you never know who's really covering your ASS!
For use by Old Farts @ companies under reorganization and other appropriate occasions.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
, KS, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 18:51:36 (ZULU)
Has any one else noticed the quite excesive cartridge head space on factory rifles? I mean I know they come with long throats to accomodate all sorts of bullets, and the chambers are made to specifications that accommodate the whole range of factory loadings, but on all Remmy 700's Ive seen in the last 2 years the CHS seemed to be excessive, my go guage drops right in there and the no go guage all but goes, these are the guages we used for the L96.(with the 308's)
When you remove the firing pin, then chamber a round and push the bolt forward you can see a definate forward movement of the bolt, this means that with the locking lugs seated correctly, the round is not on the bolt face but is bieng pushed forward by the ejector.
Ive measured this extra space and have found as much as a whole 1mm with some factory ammunition. (Hornady and Federal have longer factory cases than Lapua for instance). This means that when fired the case is forced backwards onto the bolt face, this rearward movement has a detremental effect on accuracy, and Ive even seen mis-fires because the CHS was realy excessive and the primer didn't get a full strike.
I first noticed this on my 22.250, after removing the barrel, and setting the shoulder back the required amount(I made the fit for PMC Blitz king ammo) then screwing the barrel back in, a marked improvement occured, with groups shrinking by 50% with no other work done on the rifle what so ever. I have done this on about 15 rifles within the last 2 years all with exactly the same result, a definate improvement in accuracy. Now if you buy a custom rifle, or get a rifle custom rebarreled, you can have it fitted for a particular round you want to use right?
But what about the guys on a tight budget, maybe having the CHS checked, deciding what ammo they want to use and having a smith turn the shoulder back slightly might just be the most cost efficient way to gain a bit more accuracy. This has been applicable to several different calibers, 308, 270, 30-06 7mm08, 22.250 to name a few. Now figuring that my guages are maybe on the small side, Ive tried this on several other types or rifles, Sauer, Mauser,Brunner,Sako and some others, and they all have had tighter chambers than what the Remingtons did, now whats going on, can't some one read the drawings? any one else seen the same thing?, Ive been meaning to mention this for ages, but it was Bob's question about recutting the chamber and setting the whole thing back to get rid of the long throat that made me think about this again, any comments guys.. Pete L
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 18:57:36 (ZULU)
R. Dubey <richardd@snet.net>
Torrington, CT, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 19:07:33 (ZULU)
You make a very fine point about being in shape. My questions, in all intent, is to garnish more opinions, facts and experince on the practicality of a bi-pod on the rifle as to having it in your ruck sack or not while on the move. Also,I want insight on the Marine Corps doctrine or idea behind their training regarding bi-pods. I will agree with you that if you can not carry a weapon over a period of time, regardless if the bi-pod is attached or not, then one needs to condition oneself to handle the physical requirement.
Darren...
Semper Fi
Darren <ddong@usmc.net>
SF, CA, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 19:37:20 (ZULU)
It's a Savage 10fp, and the barrel is black, but I don't know the exact nature of the finish. I put as thin a layer of the old paint as I could at the time I painted it, but I don't want to just paint over the old paint, I want to keep this as thin as possible.
If I don't get an answer to this I'll try it first on a small spot on the underside of the barrel, but if someone knows this will harm the factory finish of the barrel then I won't try it at all.
TBD <seth@pengar.com>
New Hampshire, - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 20:11:52 (ZULU)
You can't hurt a Savage, just paint it!
Steve <s_uhall@riflemen.net>
South West, PA, USA - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 20:38:21 (ZULU)
Give George gardner a call at 816-221-1844.
http://www.gaprecision.net/indexr.html
He has built two M1A rifles for me, and while I was visiting him last week, he received an order to completely rebuild eight M14 riles and turn them into DM rifles for a nearby State PD. He has a great inventory on hand of barrels, stocks, and parts. His work is fantastic. He is kept pretty busy due to the fact that his services are in demand, but his turn around time is superb. His only other employee is a recently retired Marine Corp rifle builder who also really knows his stuff.
Many people on the Duty Roster have had George build rifles for them. He is a great guy who produces great work that sure shoot well!
I don't work for him, he is just a good friend.
Michael
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
SJ, CA, USA! - Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 21:24:42 (ZULU)
I was in Team Spirit in spring, March I believe, of 1989 with India 3/1. Does that help your time line out? I thought the other two were later in the year.
Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
- Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 23:06:43 (ZULU)
I have the same problem with my savage 223 but its not as bad.Ammo loaded for the chamber wont fit in the mag but I recently tried some mag length ammo and it was an improvement accuracy wise from when the rifle was new.
I cant understand why they make the throats so long as factory ammo is loaded very short anyway.Must be some economic rationalist stupidity.
out
G.W
Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 00:10:40 (ZULU)
Team Spirit was from 86 to 88 I believe. Bear Hunt, I believe is in the same time frame. Valiant Blitz, I know was in 89 but I do not recall if it also occurred in 88. I got out in April of 1990 so there after I do not know.
Darren...
Darren <ddong@usmc.net>
SF, CA, USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 00:27:41 (ZULU)
1. apply it to the area that needs stripped... as soon as you see the paint bubbling, scrub it off - with say some sort of soft bristle brush...
2. You can use it on your stock (I did on a rem pss anyway) - however again... let it bubble up - then scrub it off.. If paint is left afterward... hit it again..
3. Attention to detail is best. Work on - say - one side of the stock at a time, or on the barrel, etc.
I used that paint stripper on my leupold scope. It didn't remove the orginal black finish, but did nicely remove the paint. Again - watch it bubble the camo paint color - then scrub it off...
It's probably like those bore cleaners that can eat your bore if you leave it in contact too long. Apply it, let it clean, then clean it off. Again - attention to detail.
Seth - also - you wrote me twice via email regarding this. Being a sh*t head - I didn't get back to ya - so I will apologize for that one...
Good Luck - and take care
Ken :)
ken hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USofA - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 00:32:16 (ZULU)
ALERT: All items are in place for a RIFFLE RAFFLE. My partner is adjusting the raffle site with pics, notes, etc.
It will be turned on sometime this weekend. We will hold it into next week... so all will get a shot at it.
It will run just like last time - but with a longer time bracket.
We will be raffling off a built M1A. (scope not included)
Here are the spec's:
· National Match Douglas Barrel
· National Match front and rear sights
· National Match op spring guide rod
· National Match Flash suppressor
· Brookfield Mount marked US property
· Glass bedded by Charles Maloney
· Springfield Armory Sniper stock with adjustable cheek piece
· M2 bipod
· 2 twenty round magazines
· 1 ten round magazine
Click on my name for a picture of this riffle....
Good luck and stay tuned.
Ken
ken hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USofA - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 00:44:55 (ZULU)
Over the orgasm, a sweaty palm Boltster out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 00:50:11 (ZULU)
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$KL0NZOYAAAT2NQFIQMFCFGGAVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2001/11/22/wbush22.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/11/22/ixhome.html
Did anyone see 60 Minutes II? CBS gave sympathetic play to "Sniper Diplomacy."
No more Mr. Nice Guy.
The talk goes on about letting the Foreign Taliban off the hook in Kunduz. Let's hope its just talk, as that would be insanity.
CDC' <criscurt@isu.edu>
- Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 02:23:40 (ZULU)
Thanks
Scott Chapman <schapman@myrealbox.com>
WY, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 02:59:46 (ZULU)
Spray can type may be o.k., but the bulk stuff for soaking the whole thing in WILL remove blueing.
Larry
Larry J. Porter <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the Panhandle, TEXAS, US of America - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 03:07:05 (ZULU)
TBD <seth@pengar.com>
Southern, NH, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 03:26:09 (ZULU)
May your turkeys be plump and not run around the barnyard too long after you chop their heads off.
Time for bed. Have to fry the bird tomorrow, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 03:34:09 (ZULU)
PeteL....... Triggers... when you go out, if you go out, what you do, and with what you do, you need to do with what you need, and that is with people with... but if you really need them with a safety, then you are FUCKED! SORRY BMFO... MPO Finger off but wpn on auto
on a bolt gun finger off - and safety off
-----that was Patrolling --- if wpn on base - clear -
Not a LEG but I have seen them on TV :(
Ex Coelis
Kevin of the Great White North <cantac@shaw.ca>
Canada - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 06:14:48 (ZULU)
Catshooter:
I see you have taken an interest in the ratshit rifling, hahah. Guys, if you want a ratchet barrel because Tony Boyer shoots well with 'em, save yer money. Mr. Boyer shoots better with a smoothbore .308 than we do with our tack-drivers.
Biggest problem with these barrels is they aren't really that easy to make tooling for. 'lito, transpose yer nifty drawings into a bore, consider the torque that will be applied while twisting and pulling the button or rifling head thru. I'm pretty sure that's why Shilen is (or was, I don't know if they've went any further on 'em) limiting their ratchet barrels to 6mm 1/14" twist barrels. I wonder if they got a few buttons stuck during the process. Ha.
Another aspect to consider is the sides of the lands. If you have trouble pulling the tool thru, or do not get a rigid support of the tool, you may not get a clean corner at the land/groove intersection. The tool might want to 'skip'.
I'm not dead sold on ratchet yet, I've got some 'speermintin to do, December sounds as good a month to try it as any, I guess. But to me, if the quality of the barrel is going to be compromised, I don't care how the air flows thru the rifled bullet, it ain't gonna work any better than a crappy Remington barrel.
I'll refrain from using some more of that bad drawing stuff 'Lito likes so youse can see the difs between the standard and ratchet rifling profiles. I'll see if I can get a better illustration, I'll e-mail whoever wants to see I guess.
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
rapid city, sd, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 08:27:50 (ZULU)
also a question that has plauged my self and my mother in charge, if a <hand gun> but any for that mater bullet is fired directly down the barrel of a second gun and strikes a bullet in the case at the other end, should the reciver of the second weapon survive the impact? and should the bullet at the other end fire, or remain stactic and if it does should the recciver then be able to fire the doubled bullet back at the original firer??
Thankyou very much
<Porkey> Paul <dark_cloud_nebulae@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 09:51:30 (ZULU)
IT would have to be ten times better, to rate as "bad" ;))
Where the hell you been anyway?
-
Porkey... Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat TF?? Son, you got way too much time on your hands. And the answer is "Maybe!"
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Osama Yo'Mama & Co... no need to run, you'll only die tired!, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 10:31:32 (ZULU)
any comments on the topic would be greatfully taken.
Thank you
<Porkey> Paul <dark_cloud_nebulae@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 10:32:43 (ZULU)
Darren we spoke before about painting rifle stocks. I haven't seen you pop up on my buddylist lately though. I did paint my stock and it came out ok. I'll send you a pic.
Semper Fi!! And Happy Thanksgiving to all. Well it's off to work. :)
Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
- Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 10:39:01 (ZULU)
in response to your question: WHAT!!??!
No flame intended, but maybe you should try a different hobby, perhaps whittlin'.
If you and yer mother 'in charge' were to test that theory out, both of you would leave disfigured and or DEAD. Normally I would explain why, but I don't wanna confuse ya buddy!
out
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
rapid city, sd, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 11:07:56 (ZULU)
Out,
TonyM <tam308@aol.com>
FL, US of A!!!!!! - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 12:00:16 (ZULU)
Happy Thanksgiving!!!
Eat, Drink, and Be Thankfull for All that you have been given by by the Good Lord.
Garry, Marius, Pete, Scott
The Sniper Country Staff
Lito - Save me some of that Honey Glazed Kitty!!!!!!!!
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 12:00:26 (ZULU)
I just returned from Badlands Basic Precision Rifle course.
The course could NOT have been run better. The material was well thought out and very well presented. Bobby Whittington, Steve Suttles and Mike AKA Raule did a super job.
We learned to accurately mil targets beyond 700 yds.
I hope with practice to range out to 1000. The fault lays with my own shortcomings not the course. Solving wind problems as well as observation techniques were covered in detail.
I could not imagine a better value for someone who needs a review of the basics or just wants to improve his shooting.
Bobby, Steve and Mike clearly enjoy teaching the class and that enthusiasm spills over in every aspect of the training.
I look forward to going back for Advanced Phase 1.
His courses have been reviewed at snipercountry.
His Link is Snipernet.net HOME
Kudu
Kudu <Kudu@cfl.rr.com>
- Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 12:09:47 (ZULU)
You will need a separate $200 tax stamp for each of the silencers.
And about this "mother in charge" thing... how old are you anyway?? WE have an age limit here... You really live with yo' mommy, or is your better half just on your case like a "mommy" ;))
PeteR... I'll send you some Hunny Glazed Cat (if Ruggus Rattus leaves any ;)
'lito
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Osama Yo'Mama & Co... no need to run, you'll only die tired!, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 13:25:31 (ZULU)
Porky, Some of us in law enforcement look down on folks breaking ATF laws. So please post wisely here, and contact the ATF on your silencer questions. Also, on the question of one bullet going down the barrel of another. They possibilites of this occuring are so slight that it boggles the mind. Try a little experiment at home to see the difficulty in doing this. First take two GI Joes and line them up the a reasonable distance. Preferably on a scale setting to simulate a 400 yard shot. Now line them up so the bores of the plastic rifles line up perfectly. Simple, right? wrong. you need to remember the bullet is dropping rapidly so this must be taken into concideration. Have your mom explain this to you if you don't understand. Ok, in all actuality I dont know and any answer you recieve would be speculation.
Later,
Steve D.
Steve Dickerson <ginger@devtex.net>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 15:19:27 (ZULU)
what you on about Bud?
Bullet shot into barrel of other rifle:
At the School of Electronical and Mechanical Engineering, (SEME) in the small town of Borden, Hampshire , England. in the Small Arms wing, where the Armourer's, Gun Fitters and Inst-Techs do their trade training, there used to be a Museum called the Armourer's Hall. This was one of the finest collections of Military Small Arms in the world, within this collection there was a rifle of WW1 vintage, I can't remember whether it was an Enfield or a Mauser or what ever, but it has a cut in half barrel showing a bullet that entered the muzzle going the wrong way and was shot in there by the enemy. This has got to be a one in a million occurence.
If any of you guys ever get across the pond to the Old Country, this collection which is not currently on display, but will be housed in a new Armourer's Hall (when it gets built)at the REME Museum of Technology, which is at the Army apprentices College, in Arborfield, near Redding, Berkshire.This isn't far from London. It is well worth a look. They have a web site: www.rememuseum.org.uk
This site has some very interesting information on the British Army and the developement of small arms, it is part of my personal history as well as that of the Modern British Army, and is worth a look.
Happy Thanks giving to all you Yanks.
Pete L.
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 17:34:40 (ZULU)
Happy Thanksgiving Day! We made it through the first winter! Oops...I'm showing my age.
Great recipes out there. 'Lito's Honey Glazed Cat, Deep Fried Turkey...geez I feel pretty common. Bagged my bird at Safeway on a 2 fo 1 sale. Next year am shooting mine. Rio Grande Turkeys are taking to Oregon like it was home. Reaching epidemic levels in some areas.
Saw a raccon sauntering through a field yesterday...wonder how they'd be "honey glazed". Hmmm, we got possum, too...;-)
Porky...contact me off line. I'm a class III dealer of silencers and such. It's a simple process to get one provided your home state allows it. I can fill you in on some of the best makes, etc.
With suppressors you can have it good, or you can have it cheap. The two are mutually exclusive. I have a suppressed Ruger MK II and 10/22. Great for vermin.
On .308 suppressed rifles there is a lot to consider. Cans must be steel. Stainless Internals, etc. It's science. I recommend Phil Dater's "Gemtech" products. More later.
Am loading and testing 6.5 x .284 this week. Bought a new lot of 5K Federal Match Primers and 8 lbs. H4831SC. Luckily, the powder is the same lot I'd been using. Talk about luck. Now I only have one variable to deal with...
Before closing...let's all say a prayer today for our country and the young men and women who guard and support her who are going in harms way.
Semper Fi,
Wes
Wes Howe <wsaa@proaxis.com>
Blodgett, OR, 97326 - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 19:17:57 (ZULU)
Anyhow, I sprayed it on the barrel of my camo-painted Savage 10fp last night. Let it sit a minute or two. Scrubbed it for a minute or so like I was brushing teeth with a stiff-bristled plastic brush. Wiped it off with a paper towel. It was all gone, completely, totally, and no harm whatever (visible to the naked eye) to the barrel. I didn't really need to scrub it. This citrus stripper (try saying that ten times fast...) is so powerful I coulda just sprayed it on, let sit for a minute or so, then wiped it off. I did the Choate stock too. The complete gun is now 99.7% paint free, the .3% is a coupla faint patches on the stock I didn't notice till I was all done.
Now I'm just waiting for the real camo spraypaint to be delivered to my house, and I'll do it again, but looking much better.
Not to start yet another discussion of moly, cuz I've gone back and read all the opinions pro and con, but I've decided I'm just gonna shoot up those 200 moly-coated bullets I sprayed a coupla weeks back. I'm not in a position where the first shot after a cleaning has to go exactly where I want it, so I figger what the heck. I'll take out 30 rounds loaded with the moly bullets, and 30 rounds with the non-moly, and shoot them both for accuracy. I'll shoot the non-moly bullets first of course, clean the bore, wipe on the Moly Bore Prep I ordered before discovering you guys diss moly, and then shoot those ones. If I don't like it I'll just not spray anymore bullets, give the bore a good cleaning, and drive on.
I bought a Lee powder measure for like $15 on sale at Midway last month, and have been trickling all my loads (throw 41.5 grains or so from the measure, trickle the last half grain) by hand for the past couple weeks, loading the rounds on a Dillon RL550B. Haven't been able to shoot them yet, but it will be interesting to see what happens to my accuracy with all my rounds holding within a small fraction of a tenth of a grain the same amount of powder. I don't have a chronograph yet, we shot my brothers several years ago, but I'm ordering a Shooting Chrony "Master Beta" (try saying THAT loud, on the phone, at work) chronograph this week through my brother (who has Midway dealer pricing as well as Dillon and some other stuff). I can't wait to start chronographing my loads for this .308. I'm trying to see if I can swing buying myself an AT-500 press from Dillon for my B-day, so I can set up here in my attic to load my .308s, instead of having to go over to my brother's, to use his 550s and 650s. Of course I'll still use his XL650 for loading handgun rounds, cuz it's just too sweet. Until my brother got into Dillon dealing we used a Rock Chucker (my brother) and a Partner Press (me, the Partner Press is the little brother of the Rock Chucker) to load ammo, and that kinda sucks. Load 1000 rounds of handgun ammo on a Rock Chucker, then load another 1000 on a Dillon (doesn't matter, 550 or 650) and you just can't go back to single stage.
TBD <seth@pengar.com>
Southern, NH, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 19:38:46 (ZULU)
ATF, but they are the 600-lb Gorilla, and cannot be ignored. Talk to a Class three dealer about your questions, so you don't get jammed up behind an infraction that can get you 10 years in a Federal country club. If you are, as I remember correctly, from the land down under, go whistle, 'cuz you ain't got no rights to anything there, anyway. You want gun rights, move here where we got ours the hard way and have held on to them, and become a citizen. Then you can have fun like the rest of us!
The I.V. stand experiment worked out like gangbusters. No movement worth speaking of, very adjustable and stable as a table. and they're cheaper than the ones from Champion's....lots.
Charles S. Hunt <dpms223@aol.com>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 19:39:15 (ZULU)
1. Get inner tube, drill holes and thread both ends.
2. Get larger tube fill with metal mesh
3. cover inner tube with outer tube and weld shut both ends
4. Thread bbl to end of silencer
5. Take weapon and silencer down to ATF for approval
6. Invoke your rights
7. Get great Lawyer
8. Sew butt hole shut
9. Enjoy jail
Hope this helps you have got to be kidding or stupid.
Happy Thansgiving HOGs
Undude
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Ca, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 20:25:31 (ZULU)
My back yard hasn't seen any attention AT ALL this year. The weeds were waist high (and I'm 6'4" tall :)... I've been too busy to fool with it, and don't much care about that stuff anyway... the fat ladies cats have had a field day hiding in the stuff. I figured when all the leaves were all down (about next week), I'd do one major slash and burn on it, and finish it up next spring.
A few days ago, I went to the back porch to look for a UPS package, and the weeds in the back yard were down, and in a big pile. I couldn't figgure it out (unless the fat lady was looking for one of her missing Cats HA!)? I asked my neighbor, cuz maybe he did it (he owes me a few favors), but nope... NADA!
The place is still filled with about a ton of leaves, so yesterday I went to Home Depot, and got a leaf vacumm upper/chopper thingie, so I could do the driveway, and the rest of them.
I took The Scooter to see "Harry Potter" this afternoon (real good!!), and we drove back into the driveway, and there were no leaves... they were all piled up... Damn man???
Then the rug rat says "Hey Daddy, there's someone by the garage."
I hop out of the Jungle Truck, and go back to the garage, and there's this little lady dressed in a gray dress and gray sweater, about 5 foot nuthin', and maybe 70 pounds wet!
I start to approach her, and she says she hopes I don't mind her doing the yard stuff, that she's a mulch nut, and took a lot of it.
So (this being New England, where everybody has a game), I look around the back yard, and by the tools, thinking something might be missing.
When I turn around, she is gone!... I walked to the front of the house, and she's walking halfway down the street.
Nothing is missing, she just did the yard and leaves, and left.
I mean it was so strange, it was like one of those Christmas movies with Jimmy Stewart and the leaf angle, or something.
Has me shaken... people up here don't do nice stuff like that for each other.
Who knows, maybe it's a sigh of the new year to come.
I'll be looking for her... I owe her a lot more than for the weeds and leaves.
'lito
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Osama Yo'Mama & Co... no need to run, you'll only die tired!, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 21:29:19 (ZULU)
Kevin of the Great White North <cantac@shaw.ca>
Canada - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 22:37:28 (ZULU)
The lady must have been from the south. No other explanation for it.
Happy Thanksgiving to all the buds still serving.
Tony <50buildr@bellsouth.net>
Murfreesboro, Tn, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 23:26:48 (ZULU)
I'll see you at Ft. Drum this year for sure ;))
'lito
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Osama Yo'Mama & Co... no need to run, you'll only die tired!, - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 23:33:03 (ZULU)
You're a lucky man to have her help ya out for her benefit.
Unfortunately we often have to remind ourselves that the vast majority of folks is good folks. It's jus that we too damned often only see or experience the not so good ones so we get synical.
Appropriate for Thanksgiving Day I s'pose.
Hopefully all the fellowship seen round the country will continue.
Good day all.
Deputy Doug
Doug Bourdo <diver1@acronet.net>
K town, WI, US of A - Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 23:37:25 (ZULU)
They actually have developed a lot of products which reduce the soldiers load, although many have not been purchased due to the budget cuts.
And the 100 lb load is one of those METT-TP types of things. One thing that perhaps wasnt mentioned was that that unit has several vehicles assigned called "SUS-Vs" This is a tracked/amphibious vehicle which is designed for artic and MTN environments and assists in mobility and sustainability. The unit also has several snowmobiles with carts that can be dragged behind them.
100 lb rucks in a MTN environment are a pretty bad idea. Thought being aside from the obvious points is that its cold in the Mountains, particullarly in winter. If you hump a 100 lb ruck, you will sweat and if you sweat you will go hypothermic and stand a good chance of dying. Not to mention if you are on snowshoes or skis you are going to have a real good time.
There are several basic things you can do to overcome the cold weather. One is simply carry some light snivel gear and a sleeping bag. When the unit stops, you need to get people in those bags that arent pulling security.
Light grease on the body helps hold in heat and it is a popular technique used by the Italian Alpinis who carry rucks in the alps that are about 30lbs.
Sustainability is the key in these operations and some tactical considerations have to suffer.
I remember getting evaluated by one "expert" during winter warfare training in Canada and he dinged my unit for not putting people in the prone during halts in movement. Problem is that if you have warm bodies lay in the prone in the snow, the lose body heat, melt snow onto their uniforms which then freezes, not to mention the trouble of trying to get up from the prone in snowshoes.
Although there are always exceptions, any CO having his men hump 100lb rucks in the MTNs is likely to have alot of dead soldiers on his hands when the enemy, who will travel light dances and prances all around his exhausted soldiers. Even those Ranger and SF tabs dont stop bullets.
Jefe <diabloazul01@hotmail.com>
- Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 23:56:30 (ZULU)
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Larry
Larry J. Porter <skporter@nts-online.net>
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, US of AMERICA - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 00:33:07 (ZULU)
You better watch out! That little ole lady might be using the old "I'll rake leaves for sex trick". Next thing you know whe will be wanting to vaccum your house cause she's a dust freak. Then who know's what will happen after that. Course then again, she could have been your ex dressed up as an old lady planting some kind of doomsday crap in your leaf pile!
BTW, if you ever decide to fry a cat instead of a turkey, kill the sucker before you inject those cajun spices. They make a hell of a racket when that needle sticks em.
Silencers?????? Jeez who needs one anyway? Why would you want to screw with that melodic supersonic crack? Talk about screwing up harmonics.
100# ruck? WHY? Nuff said!
Tony,
How's the prototype 338 going?
Ken Hunter,
WHERE'S THE RIFFLE RAFFLE TICKETS?????
Time for desert, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
NC, - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 01:30:18 (ZULU)
Anyone know of any shoots going on in this area within, say, 2-6 hours driving distance (that could be three states or four away up here...)?
TBD <seth@pengar.com>
Southern, NH, - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 03:18:49 (ZULU)
WHERE HAVE I BEEN ALL MY LIFE??? I never heard of these tricks. This is great. No wonder my love life has been so bad... I've been hiding my dust and leaves. I gotta write a new add on the "Singles network" --
"Single guy with lot's of leaves, and dust... have a basement full of guns, can't cook or do laundry. Bathe and shave only when "FalGirl" shows up on Sniper Country... You rake and vacumm, me and 10 year old son will go shooting... we can work something out for Tru Luv!.. write to <Gunslut@lust.com>"
Thanks for the tip ;)))
-
TBD... >"Pablito is from New England! That's great news"<
Now, be careful what you say, sonny! I L-I-V-E in New England (Konnecticut).
I'm F-R-O-M Texas, and my people go way back to Spanish Land Grant days... the family had a big spread in Shiro.
I'm in NE because of my son, and the Damned divorce agreement... I HATE this place!
There are no matches around here... no space. The Joisey match was fun, but small potatoes in the sniper/tactical scheme of things. The closest matches I know of, are 7 to 10 hours south for me... add 5 or 6 hours more for you.
'lito
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Osama Yo'Mama & Co... no need to run, you'll only die tired!, - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 10:41:27 (ZULU)
Being a long-range rifleman living in the highly populated Northeast is not a happy lot. Finding a place to shoot at all is a chore and finding a place to shoot past 300 yards seems impossible. But I continue to search. Local landowners (farmers) are always being approached by hunters and have in general adopted a pat answer, "no". For good reason these landowners fear liability and property damage. I'm giving serious thought to leasing some property so I can shoot. With one kid in college and the other nearing that time finding the cash will be a trick. Until then I will travel as necessary and work out on the 150 yard range at the local club. I'd be curious how the FCSA got to use the facilities at Ft.Drum. I understand there is a 500 yard KD range at Camp Smith along the Hudson. But in either case it's a long drive. Where there is a will there is a way.
out
Kevin R. Mussack (Andy's Dad) <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 11:25:15 (ZULU)
I thought that you sounded like ya'll were from down around here somewhere. Been lurkin' for quite awhile. Happy Thanksgiving all! Sat up on the hill last nite and watched a big 8 point just wander around sniffin the air. Didn't have the "need" to shoot him on T-day! Just thankful and proud to live in a state in a country that gives me the freedom to not only have the opportunity to hunt and shoot, but to do it when and where I choose. Cannot say enough about our troops and the job they have done in the past and are doing now to ensure that freedom of choice. Ya'll keep postin'!
Rex
Rex <rextra@caprock-spur.com>
Spur, Texas , The only one!!!!! USA!!! - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 12:01:55 (ZULU)
The Ft. Drum thing was arranged because of a law that forces military ranges to be available to civilian groups "for training". They approached Ft. Drum, and got tossed out on their butt by the "lady" Sgt in charge of the range... when they contacted the military legal people, she did a 180, and couldn't be more nicer.
Here's the law (thank you Blaine Fields)
============================================
Lito
The code section you are looking for is:
10 U.S.C. sec. 4309, which is quoted below:
§ 4309. Rifle ranges: availability for use by members and civilians
(a) Ranges available.--All rifle ranges constructed in whole or in part with funds provided by the United States may be used by members of the armed forces and by persons capable of bearing arms.
(b) Military ranges.--
(1) In the case of a rifle range referred to in subsection (a) that is located on a military installation, the Secretary concerned may establish reasonable fees for the use by civilians of that rifle range to cover the material and supply costs incurred by the armed forces to make that rifle range available to civilians.
(2) Fees collected pursuant to paragraph (1) in connection with the use of a rifle range shall be credited to the appropriation available for the operation and maintenance of that rifle range and shall be available for the operation and maintenance of that rifle range.
(3) Use of a rifle range referred to in paragraph (1) by civilians may not interfere with the use of the range by members of the armed forces.
(c) Regulations.--Regulations to carry out this section with respect to a rifle range shall be prescribed, subject to the approval of the Secretary concerned, by the authorities controlling the rifle range.
=======================================================
A group I was with some years ago shot matches at the West Point Military Academy... damn nice range.. then they got thrown out for leaving garbage all over the place.
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Osama Yo'Mama & Co... no need to run, you'll only die tired!, - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 12:12:38 (ZULU)
On that note, Lito did you get any info from the club on your membership? I haven't gotten ahold of the guy we need to talk to about your idea yet but I'm hunting him down. I usually run into him when I go to the range but wouldn't you figure when I want to find him I can't! Oh well. Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving and ate like pigs as I did. Now tonight I get to have Thanksgiving with my family. I worked yesterday but we had a good feed at the firehouse so it was ok.
Rob01 <customrem700@aol.com>
- Friday, November 23, 2001, at 12:16:22 (ZULU)
They have a range with a line at 200, 300, 500, and 600 yards. I haven't ever seen the 500 yard line used, but it's there. I'll have to ask. The 200 and 300 yard lines are mutually exclusive but open all day every day unless there's a scheduled event. It's whoever's there first that decides whether you shoot from 200 or 300. The 600 yard line is only open a few times a month, pre-scheduled, on like a Saturday morning or something, because to shoot from 600 we have to close down most of the other ranges I mentioned. There are high-power competitions here and such. The target pits have these great big target frames they can put up and down, and for a high-power shoot they'll have people taking their turn in the pits doing target duty.
I haven't yet shot from the 600 yard line, but I'm anxious to try it out soon. I've only fired from 200 yards yet, but just as soon as I get settled on my loads I'll try the 300 yard line.
I can get to anywhere in Konnecticut within 3 hours. 2 if it's near the northern border. I live very close to the Taxachusetts border.
TBD <seth@pengar.com>
Southern, NH, - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 14:42:02 (ZULU)
TBD <seth@pengar.com>
Southern, NH, - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 14:42:35 (ZULU)
Did not see answer to post about better stock for Savage rifles. Do not like Choate units.
Any help would be appriceated. Please e-mail me if you do not want to post. Thanks
Frank <rainbowr@plateautel.net>
Tucumcari, NM, USA - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 14:45:41 (ZULU)
Will want to start daughter on basic marksmanship training and gun handling skills. She is six years old almost seven. Has been shooting with me often and wants to try. My current rifles are to long and scoped.
What .22 rifle have you used in past?
Chipmunk,Cricket,Marlin or what ever.
Will be purchasing new and have infant son to pass down to when he gets older and need to start him out also. Thank again
Frank <rainbowr@plateautel.net>
Tucumcari, NM, USA - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 15:03:03 (ZULU)
"The point of the story remains the same: The Romans understood that they had to do whatever it took to make examples of their enemies that potential enemies would not want to emulate."
An alternative interperatation of the story could be
Romans......Havent heard much from them lately.
Masada......Isn't that the place the Isreali army or special forces swear allegience and vow it will never be taken again?
Lito - I hear you rate the Nikon Monarch scope. Any preference on reticles? FCH or NikoPlex.
Any comments on the Simmons V-Tac scope that was out a few years ago with a steel 1 inch tube
Regards
Ray Smith
Ray Smith <rayokyah@omantel.net.om>
Muscat, Oman - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 15:03:38 (ZULU)
Charles S. Hunt <dpms223@aol.com>
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 16:18:01 (ZULU)
Sounds like everyone had a good turkey day. I feel sorry for you guys with no place to shoot. I was bitchen because they closed our old military range that went out to 600+yds last year and was only minutes from my house. Now I have to drive 10 min and have my own private range where I can set up and leave my targets and shoot out to 1300yds.
I forget how lucky I am to live out here on the prairie. Did I also forget to mention that I get alot of practice shooting in the wind too(HA) Living in the boonies and loving it!!
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Friday, November 23, 2001, at 16:20:07 (ZULU)
-
Frank... I had looked at the chipmonk/cricket rifles for "Ruggus Rattus", and they were pretty poor quality.
Consider letting her use your rifle with the scope. It will be much easier for her to hit targets, and there's nothing like success to keep a kid interested... the open sights on the kid rifles are so poor, that she may loose interest before she really gets started... let her use a scope for a few years, then teach her good peep sights
Ray... I like the FCH, but reticles are a personal thing --- Simmons?? :((( One notch above Tabasco.
'lito
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Osama Yo'Mama & Co... no need to run, you'll only die tired!, - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 16:24:16 (ZULU)
Good point, lot of open territory out here in the flatlands. Another nice thing is, you don't get a lot of second looks when ya leave the house with a rifle case or two. And when you are shooting, you really don't worry about someone calling in the ATF to investigate. People 'round here expect the people who hunt and shoot TO hunt and shoot and are accomodating and respectful to that. A true blue tree hugger is few and far between. I don't think I'd trade my tramping grounds with most of our rosterfarians', we're in good country Pat!
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
rapid city, sd, - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 17:02:26 (ZULU)
I took my 16 year old daughter to the range the other day. We spent time with the AR15 and the Winch M70 HBV .308.
I gave her the instruction she needed to sight and shoot with the optics (and the safety lecture of course).
I let her fiddle with her position until she was able to hold on the grid squares on the target. She was able to adapt to it pretty quickly - alot quicker than I thought.
Later on - we're packing up our gear, she says "Dad - I like that winchester" That's what I call a good day at the range...
We're driving home, I said - "So - do you want to learn how to estimate range with those dots in the scope?"
"Ya" she said.
"Well baby, Uncle Bruce makes this neat tool called a Mildot Master. What you do is....."
Talk to ya'll later.
Ken :)
ken hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USofA - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 17:12:13 (ZULU)
Ken... I think you've lost your Winchester M70 Target riffle ;)... but a good place to loose it ;))).
'lito
CatShooter <condor@mags.net>
Osama Yo'Mama & Co... no need to run, you'll only die tired!, - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 17:32:02 (ZULU)
Out,
TonyM <tam308@aol.com>
FL, US of A!!!!!! - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 19:04:53 (ZULU)
You said it!! They been keeping you busy out there?? Have you guys built any of the 6MMx250s yet?? Or do you have any good data on them as far as velocity and barrel life?? (The fast twist ones that shoot the heavy bullets).
I better go oil up the shovel it looks like we may get our firs snow tonight and tomorrow. Up to 7" possible hope it stays south of us looks like you guys dodged the bullet on this one. Keep your powder dry.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
- Friday, November 23, 2001, at 19:31:18 (ZULU)
I don't think it's fair to judge the value of having a suppressor on a sniper rifle based on an experience shooting a Mac-10 with a can on it. The Mac 10 is POS. I have, uh, access to (legally) a M11/9 which is basically the same thing as a Mac 10 but in 9mm. It's a total POS. Shoot any M11/9 and then shoot an MP5 and there's no comparison. So you didn't like the Mac 10? OK, but what does that have to do with putting a suppressor on the end of your sniper rifle?
I for one don't think the point is whether your target hears your shot. We all know that the target shouldn't have to give a damn. It's the target's friends you gotta worry about. Having a suppressor on the end, besides deadening a great deal of the sound, also completely eliminates the flash (would be great for night or evening or early morning shots) and any dust signature. That has some value. Someone pointed out some flaws of suppressors, but I believe most if not all those flaws have been engineered out in recent years.
I for one am very excited by the Gemtech TPRS. I haven't shot one, but I've fired multiple other Gemtech suppressors on various shooting irons, and they seem quite good.
http://www.gem-tech.com/tprs.html
For $625 plus Uncle Sam's 200 lbs of flesh you can have this on the end of your gun. I'd be interested to hear from someone who owns one of these. I don't have that kinda dough lying around right now, but perhaps someday...
TBD <seth@pengar.com>
Southern, NH, - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 20:24:21 (ZULU)
AND...us downunder here do so have some rights,MrHunt..........we got the right to be taxed.the right to vote for a pack of criminal scum each election,the right to have our property seized,the right to imprisonment without fair trial,and a bunch of other good shit.
There are those of us who hold that we have other rights that the gubmint dont like and will defend those rights.
Non shootin post,tough,I wanted to clarify that point :)
out
G.W
Gavan Willis <gwillis@simplex.net.au>
- Friday, November 23, 2001, at 20:24:23 (ZULU)
When my boy was 5 I bought a model shotgun, designed to teach kids gun safety, The gun is a side by side, breaks open, has double triggers and a tang mounted safety and has cartidges where you can put caps in the primer pocket, I tought him basic fire arms safety with this, gun pointing in a safe direction, checking chambers, use of safety catch etc. For his 7th birthday I bought him an air rifle, a .177 from Gammo(its a cracking little gun, very accurate) its smallish in size but was a little to big for him at the time, he's grown in to it nicely though. This is what I used to teach him some marksmanship with, and i would agree with scoping a rifle kids will use, its easier for them to put a reticle on the target than it is to line up iron sights. He's become pretty proficient with it, having shot lots of starlings, a few rabbits, pigeons, crows and magpie's. A friend of mine gave him a bolt action 9mm flobert shot gun this year, I cut the stock down and he's used it a bit, but I wouldn't recomend this type of gun, the damn bolt is far to stiff to be used well by a kid, and its only got the range of the airgun.Ive got him started on using my Brunner 22, but the stock is a little on the long side for him, he'll be 9 next month and finding some where a kid can use a .22 in Germany is a nightmare,most ranges have an age limmit of 16 or 18, but back in England on the farm its no problem. Thats the good thing about the airgun, we can use it in the garden and or the cellar, so when we are short of time (which is always) we still get some shooting time in at home. Im already looking for an action to build him a 7mm 08 on and my daughter is showing an interest in the model shot gun. Pete L
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 20:59:33 (ZULU)
http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/M7_LS.htm
Still dry as a bone, Bolt out!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
Waiting on the rain, NC, - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 21:47:04 (ZULU)
Im in two minds about their use for hunting, they have their benefits, ie, recoil reduction,flash elimination and noise reduction, but at the expense of more weight and added length(in most cases) I believe a dedicated moderated rifle is the way to go rather than a screw on model, but then you've got to justify the expense, do you realy need it and will you realy use it that much to warrant the cost, I like the Accuracy International with the moderated barrel but can't afford one.
Ofcourse the military and police use for a moderated weapon is obviouse and has been looked into and discussed many times and moderated weapons have been used by variouse military units for years.
Ive got a model called the Lapwood Husher (www.thelapwoodhusher.co.uk)
its a screw on moderator and uses a gas flow principle to dampen noise , has no complicated internal baffels and is easily disassembled for cleaning, its made of high strength alloy and is quite light, it works well with full velocity amunition, reducing the sound of a 308 to about that of 22lr or less, certainly eliminating the need for ear defenders, but I was somewhat disapointed with its effect on 308 subsonic ammo, I guess the less gas produced the less efficient the unit is, Im looking into bettering this. All it needs to be cleaned is a spraying over with WD 40 (or any other penetrating oil) and a wipe off with a rag.
It is currently in use with several police forces tactical fire arms units, and is bieng trailed by several military organisations.
If you need one, this one's worth a look.
Pete
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 21:52:35 (ZULU)
Im thinking of taking him with me to Scotland in April, but Im not sure he's old enough, hes 9 next month, what do you guys rekon, how old did you all start? He's been with me plenty of times In England and here in Germany, including some all night sessions after wild piggies, so he's keen enough, he's gralloched a couple of Roe deer too, He asked if he could do it, but all day on the hill in Jock land is something else and a big step, which is why I'm in 2 minds.
Pete L
Peter Lincoln <Peter.Lincoln@esa.int>
D - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 22:10:39 (ZULU)
Daughter (6) w/be shooting off bench for a while in my pistol pit. She just can't seem to get her cheek welded on the stock for the scope. Looking at a small sized rifle. So she could learn how to carry and do firearm safety drills (per Col. Cooper). We live on a farm(ranch) in NM so jacks and small nusance birds abound near pens. Have heard that Savage used to have a youth model but do not know size or model number.
Pete L. Thanks for idea on pellet rifle had not thought of that. Will look at show for shorter version.
If you or Lito get to NM look me up. Have plenty of open range with gongs and wind just to make it interesting(have acess to 5000 ac.).Plenty of coyotes to thin out. Also five praire dog towns that have not be shot to much. Average range is 30 yds to 900 yds take your pick, can kill about 50 a day. Still not getting scared.Just not enough time to shoot them on a regular basis. Thanks again Frank
Frank <rainbowr@plateautel.net>
Tucumcari, NM, USA - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 22:36:02 (ZULU)
Daughter (6) w/be shooting off bench for a while in my pistol pit. She just can't seem to get her cheek welded on the stock for the scope. Looking at a small sized rifle. So she could learn how to carry and do firearm safety drills (per Col. Cooper). We live on a farm(ranch) in NM so jacks and small nusance birds abound near pens. Have heard that Savage used to have a youth model but do not know size or model number.
Pete L. Thanks for idea on pellet rifle had not thought of that. Will look at show for shorter version.
If you or Lito get to NM look me up. Have plenty of open range with gongs and wind just to make it interesting(have acess to 5000 ac.).Plenty of coyotes to thin out. Also five praire dog towns that have not be shot to much. Average range is 30 yds to 900 yds take your pick, can kill about 50 a day. Still not getting scared.Just not enough time to shoot them on a regular basis. Thanks again Frank
Frank <rainbowr@plateautel.net>
Tucumcari, NM, USA - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 22:36:10 (ZULU)
That is some attitude you have regarding RIGHTS! What will the goobermint think? You can join us anytime if they throw you out of OZ. :-)))
TBD -
I lived in Atkinson some 20 years ago. Didn't shoot at the Nashua club, though. However, Rt 111, east of I93, was nice and straight. Just had to watch out for the cars! :-)
Ranges -
I joined the local NRA HiPower club because it offered 200, 300, 500 and 600 yard shooting. A side benefit is that club shooters can use the range for non-HP (bolt guns, etc) shooting also. Considering there are only two 600 yard ranges in Florida, I'm happy as the proverbial pig in mud.
One of the things I really like about HP shooting is the MARKSMANSHIP it develops. It's one thing to hit your target through a 10X at X distance but it's another thing altogether to do it consistently with irons. And the focus, concentration and control all carry over to the scoped gun.
The only problem I have come across so far is that occasionally some twit uses the range and doesn't close the access gates to the firing positions. The range is in the middle of a citrus grove & cattle farm. If the gates are left open, ol' Bossy The Cow will wander into a firing line a drop a pie. Damn, those things are BIG! :-)))
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, US of A - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 22:55:10 (ZULU)
I'm not allowed to take my TBA M40A1 or my Steyr SSG .308 (They upset the Springbok and zoo director too much)
The loudest noise is the thump of the bullet hitting the rabbit.
I also use a Rem 700 in .300/221 Whisper for feral goats. It has a 10 inch 1 in 8 twist barrel and a Percy Engineering suppressor.
www.suppressor.co.nz
It is in a HS Precision stock the same as the Rem 700 Lightweight Tactical Rifle uses, mounted with a 3.5-10 M3 with mildots.
While they may have only limited military or police applications, suppressors allow you to shoot in areas that would otherwise be off limits due to the noise.
Sniff
Sniff <akh805@actrix.co.nz>
Auckland, New Zealand - Friday, November 23, 2001, at 23:32:09 (ZULU)
Kowa TS 612, Swift Panther, Bushnell Spacemaster, Burris Signature, Nikon Spotter XL and the Leupold Wind River. With any luck the editing will be done over the week-end and I'll get ithe final off to Marius for posting early next week. Hold on to your $$$ guys there are some real surprises coming!!
Sarge
Sarge <garryrn@zianet.com>
Southern Area 51, NM, - Saturday, November 24, 2001, at 00:05:42 (ZULU)
cz makes an excellent youth model .22lr that has 1 mag and one singleshot follower that fits in the mag.well. overall the quality seems to be pretty good,but it doesn't have a knurled bolt that can be lowered like most other youth guns it relies an a safety instead.
STINE,LARRY D. <jackstine@innernet.net>
greencastle, pa., franklin - Saturday, November 24, 2001, at 00:08:28 (ZULU)
Thats what my 22 is, I cut the barrel to 16 inches, threaded it and bedded the barrel in the stock with Belzona up to the rear sight block where the barreled action screws to the stock, trigger job, and did some stiypleing on the stock in the forend and pistol grip areas then sprayed the whole stock black.Had a Leupold 6.5-20x40 on it for a few years, then swapped that for a S&B 10x BDPM. Ive had variouse moderators on it, made some my self, Parker hales, RWS, and some others, all work well, I only use subsonic ammo, like you say the loudest nois is the smack when the bullet hits its target, the drop of the firing pin is the second lousest noise, you cant hear the rifle bieng fired at all more than about 50 yards away. I use pistol match ammo, because it tends to be more consistent, I still measure the rim thickness of the ammo, this makes a hell of a difference to the accuracy. The little brunner will shoot one hole groups at 1
