Sniper Country Duty Roster

October 2008

'Lito said, "I must be some kind of anarchist misfit or somfin'."

Yeah, you are. The average couple in the 55-64 age range has a net worth of around $35,000 exclusive of the equity in their home - and guess what just happened to that equity?

And a lot of folks have a very negative net worth. Times are tough for them and are going to get tougher. Our economy has existed for years on a giant bubble of credit - and the bubble has burst.

I have charge cards - with $75K+ worth of unused lines of credit, which will remain so, except for what I charge and pay off every month just to save carrying around cash.

I have some small loans on my truck and home - which I can write checks to pay off if need be. And youngest daughter will graduate from college next May, and her bills until then are paid for.

I hope the market goes a bit lower - I've got some cash I want to put to work.

Lindy
Rockport, Northern Occupied Territory of Mexico, U.S.A. - Wednesday, October 1, 2008, at 03:12:07 (ZULU)

Medic jim

I've got a Kahles scope. Kenton doesn't offer anything for it. It's the Multi-Zero model, i'll just live with what i got. Thanks for the info.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Wednesday, October 1, 2008, at 11:08:07 (ZULU)

CDC, All --

remember that video on u-tube a few days ago - that had the background music and the info that points to Oblama and his allies with the CRA, fannie mae, etc...????

Seems it got pulled from U-tube due to copyright issues via Warner Music... ya right.. we hear background music all the time....

This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Warner Music Group

Okay - chop the music out and repost it....

Sounds like that video was hitting close to home for Oblama-nites.....

Take care,

Ken Hunter

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Wednesday, October 1, 2008, at 14:24:18 (ZULU)

Ken, the ospama campaign has also done the same thing with the NRA ads.

Three of 'em were showing in (IIRC) Pennsylvania because that's a 'swing state'. None of what was said in the ads registered as 'untrue'.

That didn't stop - and hasn't yet - the ospama campaign from threatening the stations that show those ads. The threat? Pulling their FCC license.

They even attempted to get an injunction to force stations to quit showing the NRA ads.

So it seems, at least in this case, that ospama's actions show he's clearly almost as anti-First Amendment as john mcstain.

After all, mcstain's legislation (the law that bears his name)didn't just stop THOSE ads, it made it illegal for YOU AND ME to do the same thing.

Gee - with two weiners like that, I'm wondering who I should vote for: the Libertarians or the Constitution Party.

Bravo
Wednesday, October 1, 2008, at 15:27:07 (ZULU)

Joe (on Python quote):

I would have guess "Meaning of Life", but I didn't see most of

"The Life of Brian".

Python trivia: Did you notice that in subsequent performances of the dead parrot sketch, the indicated voltage keeps increasing?

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, October 1, 2008, at 16:23:46 (ZULU)

Bankruptcy not Bailout.

One of the best explanations (succinct and to the point) that I have read thus far....

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/miron.bailout/index.html?eref=rss_mostpopular

LTChip
Wednesday, October 1, 2008, at 16:43:37 (ZULU)

Rod,

Joe's quote was from a song... well worth the time to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo

His post will deliver up some delicious irony once you've seen the context of the song and listened to the full lyrics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i35WRFDcKGo

medicjim
Wednesday, October 1, 2008, at 16:57:34 (ZULU)

Just finished UC and EF&D. UC was a lot like a Tom Clancy novel, a lot of simultanious plot strings tied up at the end. EF&D reminded me of a Stephen Hunter novel. Both DAMN GOOD "fiction"

Charles Hunt for fishin' you need a bow & arrow ; )

Why is it every time Washington and New York throw a depression we end up with more socialism?

No oppinions on downloading a .17 fireball for grays?

4eyes
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Wednesday, October 1, 2008, at 22:43:44 (ZULU)

4eyes

EF&D is #1 of a trilogy.

#2 is out, it's good too. "Domestic Enemies: The Reconquista" by Matthew Bracken

#3 is being written now.

If you enjoyed those, I would also suggest:

"The Black Arrow: A Tale of the Resistance" by Vin Suprynowicz

"Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse: A Novel of the Turbulent Near Future" by James Wesley Rawles

( novel set in the near future that describes a full scale socioeconomic collapse) - rather erie given the current credit meltdown.

"Molon Labe!" by Boston T. Party

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 01:19:04 (ZULU)

Medicjim:

Ok, watched the clips. Classic Python.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 01:20:55 (ZULU)

Hey Eyes...

"No oppinions on downloading a .17 fireball for grays? "

Small bore bottleneck cartridges don't take too well to down loading.

Light loads for the 17 FurBall are still in the 3,000+ fps class, and that's pretty snappy for Grays.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 01:44:30 (ZULU)

Civilization is so brittle.

Some mean, merciless and powerful people - both foreign and domestic - are looking to take us down. By "Us" I mean "Bitter Clingers". We are badly outnumbered.

CDC'
Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 03:12:46 (ZULU)

CDC...

>"Some mean, merciless and powerful people - both foreign and domestic - are looking to take us down. By "Us" I mean "Bitter Clingers". We are badly outnumbered."<

I guess I fall into that group, and I think the "numbers" are getting worse each generation.

The bigger the percentage of people that have nothing to loose by big government, the bigger the percentage of people that want big government.

We (the collective) made a terrible mistake by adapting Johnson's "Great Society" model.

At the time, Johnson said, "If we get this passed, we'll own the black vote for 100 years." - and now, you can add the Mexican vote to that... we have 57 more years to go :((

The liberals want a social state, where all the under class (non-government workers) are dependent on the government for their safety, their health care, their income, etc....

... and with the state of education as it is now, the public is ready to throw in the towel for some (ANY) security.

The more unstable things are, the more people want socialism...

... the more stable things are, the more the people want freedom and capitalism.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 09:53:25 (ZULU)

"The communist's means of persuasion is no different than that of the islamist-keeping the people so desperate and destitute that they are unable to say no. " Quote from H. John Poole's book 'Tequila Junction'

Do ya'll think that something along these lines could be the ultimate ends of this here bail out ? Sure looks like it to me..

Ken,

It's back with new muzak...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4&feature=iv&annotation_id=event_597487

Stay safe

Calvin ( bitter clinger )

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 13:28:26 (ZULU)

Calvin: Butchering Vivaldi ain't "muzak"; It's an atrocity. Click here and pass the link along to EVERYONE you know!

CDC'
Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 15:54:45 (ZULU)

WSJ collected some pre-meltdown quotes. I especially like this one: ""Rep. Frank: I do think I do not want the same kind of focus on safety and soundness that we have in OCC [Office of the Comptroller of the Currency] and OTS [Office of Thrift Supervision]. I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidized housing."

Well,...he got what he wanted. Click.

CDC'
Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 16:00:46 (ZULU)

Whoooahhh yeah Calvin!! thanks for finding this....

Rest of you Hawgs -- pass this link around as much as possible. If someone knows how to download it - I will host it too....

We got's to let the air out of this dam O'blama balloon....

click my name or copy the link from here or Calvin's post....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4&feature=iv&annotation_id=event_597487

Take care,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 17:32:21 (ZULU)

CDC Sir,

Sorry, if it's any consolation I find the muzak offensive too.. But I'll take one for the team if it sways someone in the right direction.. Unfortunately in my experience most obamo-ites are imune from logic and reason..

Stay prepared !

Calvin

Calvin
emmitsburg, MD, U.S.A - Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 18:45:31 (ZULU)

Joe,

Being a single parent is not that tough especially when you have a consistant and regular schedule and home regime. Ever since my wife (ex) went and found "true love" at a yoga retreat 16 onths ago I have been there for my boys 100%. While she was "finding her bliss" I was doing laundry, making dinners, coaching lacrosse, paying all the bills etc.

I didn't bitch about it either. My boys know that they can count on me and that I will be there for them. They have spent a total of 11 nights with their mom since last Christmas. Things are good now and working out. I now need to climb out of a little debt hole that I slid into due to the loss of 2nd income.

It will and does work out, just feels mighty rocky at times!

Michael
Los Gatos, CA, USA - Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 18:48:01 (ZULU)

Michael: At the very end of 1991, I packed a 4x4, watched the weather, and drove my son to Alaska. The wife stayed put. I raised him from there. Now, try this: Have three more kids, and do it all over again. If I didn't have such looming responsibilities, I'd kick my own ass for being here yet again.

As for being outnumbered: Add in the apathetic, morally corrupt who sit anything out, and account for what's left opposing each other actively. In fact, look at any revolution demographocally. I think you will be surprised. The American revolution was a minority operation:)) IIRC, success is highly probable at 10% merely sympathetic. The bulk of the masses are not a factor, and become less so as time goes by. They hide under their beds and hope for the best either way. And you'd be surprised by what .1% can do if properly organizted and led. Never think about field formations, I'm talking about diffuse cells scattered over a wide area. Consider a doubling or tripling of security forces in a crisis. In a perfect world, this would secure maybe three geographically smallish but populous states. Imagine the Senate trying to pick which three (CA counts as 2.7 alone) to stabilize. Heheheheh. Academcially, the whole idea is interesting. A handful is all it takes, and history bears this out. The demographics' aspect flies in the face of popular myth, too. We just overlook the reality of revolutionary popularity by romanticizing the outcomes. But the successful dudes, Mao, Uncle Ho, Washington, they all understand this and rolled their dice. Numbers by themselves mean nuthin.

As for that vid; yeah, I know. I wish everyone would see this. I have a few gossipy friends to send it to; thoughtful persons who will grasp the importance immediately. I am scared. Fear is more a general sense of foreboding---but this I know exactly what it is, so it scares me directly. I also see the implications, and those are part and parcel of this specific fear: It may be too late already to stop a melt down, but who has the reigns when it happens is seriously crucial to where we end up on the back side. Either as Amercians, or as "left of Euro-social marxists." On the one hand, I could agitate changes back to principles; on the other, it is a call to arms I could not ignore.

Joe M
Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 19:13:47 (ZULU)

Buffet was thought, as late as last year, to have lost his edge. He took strong cash positions, and was missing out on the wild upward ride of securities. The guys knee deep in the shit now were the ones deriding old man Warren. I remember reading these snide remarks, now that I am watching him buy up bargain basement assets.

And, it occurs to me that history is going to be unkind to us as a whole. Unless, of course, someone break the current paradigm.

If mark to market has you confused, click.

Now, the current Abomination wending thru capitol hill suspends FASB 157. But, what does that mean? Up front it means that corporations can hide faulty assets from their investors, that's what. So, does smart money follow that trojan horse in? Or does this mean the big board will go south? And, if that is the case, that means money that funds your paycheck goes with it...and if you don't want to bother with any of these arcane little rules: If you instinctively feel this bailout is solely propping up high roller fat cats who should instead be forced to eat their own dumb losses--you're right. They keep their profits at the top of the market, the tax payer eats the losses that actually occured before anyone could bail out. That is just BS on the face of it--and insidious for "responsible" decisions going forward.

The Peanut is here today, home from school and fighting a flu-like thing. Her needing me is the easiest way to put my little problems into proper perspective.

Joe M
Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 20:01:16 (ZULU)

book Country:

This isn't 2nd amendment fiction as such, but it is very on-topic for this board/forum, and it's a great story (tech and otherwise):

"The Cajun Sniper" by Wayne Talley

http://www.amazon.com/Cajun-Sniper-Wayne-Talley/dp/0595314465/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222983904&sr=8-1

(or click my name)

Product Description

In the international sniper arena, a crafty Cajun named Jacques Boudreaux is the master. When a crime organization wants to silence a lady friend of Boudreaux's past, she summons him for help. He holds true to the friendship code of the Louisiana Bayou. Using his deadly art, he becomes a predator and enacts the swamp's brutal justice system. Boudreaux completes his mission, but the fight of his life still awaits him. Unknowingly, his escapade also kills the lucrative revenue source of a powerful and corrupt New Orleans individual. A well-financed and highly trained unit of shooters is dispatched to eliminate Boudreaux. The overconfident rogue unit quickly learns that this simple Cajun is a worthy adversary.

Advance sniper techniques are woven into the story. The technical information on techniques used in long- range marksmanship is condensed into a ten-page supplement that is located in the rear of the book.

Wayne Talley is a Louisiana native who, as a civilian, competes against active military and law enforcement snipers in national sniper matches.

Prior to 2002--NRA long-range competition.

Nov. 2002--3rd Place at Badland's Individual Sniper Match.

June 2003--2nd Place Scout/Sniper Team at SniperQuest03.

www.cajunsniper.com

About the Author

Wayne Talley is married sixteen years to a wonderful wife. He is the father of three. Born in New Orleans, the nearby swamp was his childhood playground. He lived in southeast Louisiana nearly his entire life. He now resides in Houston.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, October 2, 2008, at 22:48:09 (ZULU)

Well, I think Sarah Palin did a nice job in the debate. She handled herself well, and didn't have a major gaffe.

Joe Biden.... you could tell he was lying. His lips were moving.

Not that I'm biased. :8-)

Duman
Friday, October 3, 2008, at 05:25:36 (ZULU)

Really it was all about Palin. Biden has been around long enough for everyone to know what to expect. I thought she handled herself much better than he did and that's not because I'm biased. She's smarter and more confident than he is. Now I'm seeing in some places that polls show he "won". How in the fuck people come up with that is beyond me.

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Friday, October 3, 2008, at 19:57:15 (ZULU)

Rifle Country:

Took delivery on the CZ452 Silhouette. Like the bolt handle, very similar to my other adult (non-youth) rifles.

Taking delivery on rings shortly. I believe I have the correct (11mm) ones on order with the right height.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, October 3, 2008, at 22:27:45 (ZULU)

Would Alaskan lesbians be called "Klondykes"?

Duman
Saturday, October 4, 2008, at 04:36:07 (ZULU)

Calvin: My response to your vid post sounded rude. It wasn't meant to. No offense was meant.

CDC"
Saturday, October 4, 2008, at 05:55:42 (ZULU)

Rod,

Good Luck w/your Cz452.The only one I know for sure that has a 3/8 dovetail is the 452 American.The rest are 11mm,if I am not mistaken.Cz also offers a slide on "weaver" base held on by allen grub screws.They call it a "weaver base" but I have one on mine and it looks more like a picatinny rail.Cost is around $50-$60 shipped.Its available in either 3/8 or the 11mm version.And you can get it from the Cz-USA website.

Brownell's,Brookes and Timney all have options if you want to get rid of the OEM trigger.

Good Luck and Enjoy

"Joe Biden.... you could tell he was lying. His lips were moving."

Had an interestin phone conversation w/ Dad on this...I dont know who kept track of Bidens lies.But according to Dad the B.S. Meter registered 47 lies.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Saturday, October 4, 2008, at 12:54:05 (ZULU)

Hey Duman..

>"Would Alaskan lesbians be called "Klondykes""<

I laughed so loud that Ruggus Rattus yelled up and asked what I was laughing about...

I only watched about 5 minutes of the Palin/Biden "Chat", cuz I'm totally burned out on this "race"... I mean we have been enduring this shit for two years, and the Pillsbury Dough Boy would make a better vice president than "Joe Biden". :(((

The polls are all over the place, depending on the political spin of who's paying for the poll... so I don't think there is any credible feedback on where any of this is, and what is working.

For you guys that live out in Vegas... what are the odds on the boards on who is going to win the office - they are probably more accurate than the asshole "pundits" on the tube.

I thought is was odd (read DUMB) for Obama to pick Biden - for a guy that touts change from the "old guard" political hacks, he picked the premier Old Guard hack in Washington.

Rush Limbaugh said the the Republicans couldn't have asked for a better choice.

No one respects Biden - he has tried to get the presidency four or five or times and has always gotten about 1% of the primary vote. So now I guess he thinks he can slide in through the back door.

I'll be glad when it is over and we can all get back to earning the $850,000,000,000 to replace the money that our govt just gave away...wait a minute - I don't do that. It's called a "Voluntary Tax System"... and I'm not volunteerism for this stupidity.

Especially the $150,000,000,000 in pork - aka "Earmarks" :(((

Anyone need $2,000,000 worth of toy wooden arrows?

But I can support the $160,000,000 in Rum, as long as it's Morgan's Dark Spiced Rum... just toss in a few million bucks worth of lime jooce to go with it. :)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 4, 2008, at 17:05:16 (ZULU)

Click: why isn't McCain blasting away with these facts?

The big blue elephant in the room is being ignored. Palin had ample opportunity to slam and slay over this very issue. She side stepped.

My hope is McCain is biding his time, planning a huge assault on the dems in general and Obama in particular over their enabling role for subprime. Pin that tail on that donkey, as it were.

But, if it remains the unspoken elephant...one wonders then: Is this a conspiracy??? Socialism thru free amrketintervention...a power grab coup with both parties' playing.

It is inexplicable to me for this to be ignored. Bizarre to the point of donning the ol' tin hat.

The ONLY thing that would alter this is for McCain to unleash all hell on Obama--a relentless, pointed attack complete with google tips and re-printed articles from the past five years or so. Otherwise, WTF???

Bail out: Let the fun begin...

Joe M
Saturday, October 4, 2008, at 18:07:24 (ZULU)

Hi Duman,

guess where Klondykes go to meet each other? Of course, a Klondyke Bar... BWaaahhaaa!!

Rod, keep us up on your new CZ, all the ones I've owned or tried out would shoot very well, far better than one would expect from the price tags. The CZ/Pic rails can be hard to get from CZ itself but there are others available. RimfireCentral has a thread going on them.

Good Shooting to All,

Erik in Kodiak

Erik in Kodiak
Saturday, October 4, 2008, at 18:24:13 (ZULU)

Vote for Joe:

My platform:

1. Repeal the 17th ammendment, and put the tsate back into the heart of the fed.

2. Disarm the FBI and remove the power of arrest for domestic ops. They now become an intel group that must act thru local agencies; call it a LEO FEMA for crime.

3. File suits after appointing justices that actually understand the constitution under both the 9th and 10th ammendements to undo nannyisms. Repeal the income tax ammendment, and instead go to a flat tax period. Let the states and local levels decide how to spend seized money--where the locals can get their hands on their politicos.

4. Decriminalize most drugs, and defund the DEA. If you aren't a druggie now--will you become one if it is openly available?

5. Defund the DOE and issue right to work executive order (using congresses' own rules to the DOE) to all jurisdictions per educators. NEA is dead, dudes. Power to the parents...

6. Define corruption as a violation of the oath of office, and jail congress(people) for violations of power contained in article I. In a play for ironic outcomes, I would use RICO statutes for convictions. FWIW, this bail out originated in the senate, using a thinly veiled dodge that would run afoul of my standards of conduct (standards that the founding fathers wrote themselves).

7. No foriegn aid without clear national interest, and only following an open and engaging conversation with that population (good guys, good press. Or, no money).

8. No Federal aid to sates and localities. We won't take the money in the first place, don't expect us to hand it back with or without strings. San Fran, if you want socialism---pay for it out of your own damned pockets; Preoria is not subsidizing you anymore.

9. Job one: Defense.

10. Job two: Level playing field economically only insofar as to say bye to the Fed; say hello to congressional regulation of a backed currency. Heheh. they'll be so busy wonking dollar levels that they will have little time or motivation to control your guns or to police your thoughts...forever more.

11. Welfare? see your state...

12. Highways? I'll handle the interstate thru DoD. If you want to use it fine, make exists. Talk to your state. But, I need them only for defense...getting to ports, getting to a border etc.

13. Rights to healthcare? rights to work? BS; a right to healthcare is another way of saying you have a right to take something from the doctor without his consent. that's slavery. I de-regulate all federal healthcare provisions. I pass laws saying that healthcare coverage can be anything the consumer wants it to be, with no mandates. You have the right to be informed, but no right to my time or his. Policies can then be "catastrophic coverage" with the routine being on you---saving tons of money. If you need help....see your state.

14. Slash the government: DOJ? Only used to keep us elected guys honest---federal courts still remain as relief to local issues that cross up the constitution and to prevent any petty tyranies within any state. But, "federal crimes" are defined, and the rest go bye-bye to the local level. State, defense (with intel) stay as necessary to centralized effort. Every other agency will scale back or go under. FAA is part of a defense network, FEMA is pooled resourses for big bad things, etc. But, Labor, HUD---these are state issues. Money stays in the state--so does such responsibilites that are not contained in the constitution.

15. If your state goes socialist--vote with your feet. I'm not giving a shit.

16. In fact, read the constititution thoroughly; vote for Joe, and I'll bring it back to the fore.

My philosphy is "the government that governs least governs best." Yes, I borrowed that phrase....

I'd lose, eh? Hahahahahaha. And that's the sad fact...

Joe M
Saturday, October 4, 2008, at 18:45:25 (ZULU)

Pablo, "For you guys that live out in Vegas... what are the odds on the boards on who is going to win the office - they are probably more accurate than the asshole "pundits" on the tube."

Click for the odds. This is the best guess going. Right now it is 2/1 Obama.

CDC'
Saturday, October 4, 2008, at 20:37:23 (ZULU)

"Click for the odds. This is the best guess going. Right now it is 2/1 Obama."

Thats some scary shit....Even scarier when I click on my State and see what the predicted margin is for that.I knew Milwaukee and Mad City were full of crazies....but they list Obama by 85%.Maybe there really is something to all the lead plumbing they claim we have.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Saturday, October 4, 2008, at 22:12:00 (ZULU)

With this government bailout, and the associated shennanigans, it might be a good time to re-read "Unintended Consequences".

If you haven't read that book, now is a good time.

Duman
Saturday, October 4, 2008, at 22:22:37 (ZULU)

"EF&D is #1 of a trilogy.

#2 is out, it's good too. "Domestic Enemies: The Reconquista" by Matthew Bracken

#3 is being written now."

#3 is Foreign Enemies, and so far, it is even better than Domestic Enemies. If reading it doesn't make you nervous, you;ve got the belief system of a rock. I thought DE hit home in so many ways, but FE is headed to strike nerves all over the place; it'll make you hurt.

The sad thing for this nation is that Matt would be as creative as he could and devise a scene so far fetched it could only be in a novel...only to have that very scene play out in the real-world news just days or weeks later. One scene I remember was the use of Mexicans as State policemen in New Mexico. He wrote that scene only to have the news break not long after.

Hank
Sunday, October 5, 2008, at 03:42:11 (ZULU)

If I was the G3 of Al Qeada, I'd be agitating for a major move against the oil infrastructure like right freakin now. Both on the export end and on the import end in the US. The economic crisis could be exploited--and worsened to the point of collapse (what was their concept for 9/11? Economics?). The first reason not to do so would come from the 5 shop; politically, it may be better to wait til after the election (get the sucker elected). The second is simply they cannot---too much pressure. Too bad the elction factor takes analysis to a 50/50 assessment...it would be nice to gauge their capability right now. You can bet the Arab Street is wondering where they are....in all, it may just be too much to resist.

BKS: You're in the most likely/ most dangerous COA target area....WY6. And mine...and ours...and theirs...fuckboogers. A hit now would really hurt us...and that fact is not lost on these guys.

Joe M
Sunday, October 5, 2008, at 15:35:02 (ZULU)

There's a cult of personality dedicated to Our Savior:

Click for Obama Youth 1.

CDC'
Sunday, October 5, 2008, at 23:49:29 (ZULU)

Click for Obama Youth 2.

I used to subscribe to a bunch of the head-bump international relations journals. In their analyses it was taken as a given that neither the USSR or the USA would follow a "Man On A White Horse". That may no longer be true.

CDC'
Sunday, October 5, 2008, at 23:54:00 (ZULU)

CDC,

NOW that's offensive ! Cult it must be, as when I speak with obama-ites their eyes glaze over and they instantly become immune to logic and reason.. It's like they are under a witch doctor's spell.

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Monday, October 6, 2008, at 13:50:37 (ZULU)

The markets are tanking. We sold our birthright for a bowl of porridge and didn't even get the porridge.

CDC'
Monday, October 6, 2008, at 15:38:48 (ZULU)

Neal Boortz put that video up on his website. The walk-thru of the subprime crisis---the one we had here.

Palin took her gloves off, and her actual remarks of course have been distorted enough by the MSM (even FNC) as to make it seem scurrilous rather than factual...but the way she framed it, there is no disputing that this is what happened. Barry was only 8 when Ayers was tossing bombs? Fine. then what is his excuse for linking up AFTER the fact????

I'm hiring an attorney wednesday morning...too steep a learning curve for me and too high stakes for a stupid procedural error; and my kids were concealed from me into today. My last act as pro se is to go now and file a motion for contempt against her. I slept not at all last night...and Peanut gave me her cold.

Damn. Let the games begin...

Joe M
Monday, October 6, 2008, at 16:22:45 (ZULU)

remember a couple of archives back when I said "as early as October?"

Maybe I should switch from law to economics, eh?

In case you noticed the dollar strengthen over the weekend: read between the lines at what that really means: The Euro Zone is in even worse shape than us, and their fractured C&C cannot move nearly as fast (as if we did) for a major bailout. The western economies are too far gone, it appears. Paulson, with authority he sought--also cannot move quickly enough to get the clots out of the system.

Expect "spray and pray" with your tax dollars next. Haste makes waste, they say. But do not despair: Once the dust settles, you'll be glad to be rid of all those useless pieces of green paper with dead-dude portraits.

Gold is next---watch the ride about to unleash:)) Better yet, ride it up. The next few days and weeks oughta be spectacular.

I feel for the boomers; they are watching steak go to hotdogs, go to mac n cheez, on to forage thru their life savings in this market.

Now is the time to re-look family. And not wise to walk away, but then again, she never was wise.

Joe M
Monday, October 6, 2008, at 16:34:09 (ZULU)

Joe M...

>"A hit now would really hurt us...and that fact is not lost on these guys."<

I disagree. These guys are no fools (I wish that they were!!).

"IF" they want to break our economy by effecting the oil flow - now is NOT the time to do it.

They know McCain is likely to loose, and that Obama is an empty suit with no resolve to fight anything except the conservatives.

A hit now would friggin' guarantee a McCain win by a landslide... and McCain would retaliate in spades.

If they are going to hit the oil flow, it will come after Obama is elected... (God forbid!), and he will do nothing about it except invite then to talk about it.

CDC...

>"We sold our birthright for a bowl of porridge and didn't even get the porridge."<

We sold it for cheap sneakers from China, and to appease the demand from the leftist eco-nazis and EPA (one is the same as the other) to halt energy development here in the USA.

While the price of energy keeps going up, the eco-nazis are STILL suing the govt to stop energy development.

Don't get the reasons confused - know the real enemy - they are inside the borders of our country.

They usually have stickers on their car bumpers telling you how nice they are, and how much they care!!

Joe M...

>"Expect "spray and pray" with your tax dollars next."<

All the little piggies are lining up at the govy tittie - Kalifornia (one of the richest [if not THE richest] states in the country) wants "us" to give them $7,000,000,000 (that's a billon with a "B") to bail them out of their financial problems caused by the drain on the state by illegal immigrants - Fuck that - let Schwarzenegger go begging to Babs Streisand, Billy Gates, and the rest of the socialistas (and maybe dig into his own jeans for a piece of it).

Kalifornia is NOT my problem - paying for my kids braces is my problem. If Schwarzenegger will pay for my Rat's braces, I will gladly send Kalifornia $20!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 6, 2008, at 18:02:25 (ZULU)

>>>Cult it must be, as when I speak with obama-ites their eyes glaze over and they instantly become immune to logic and reason.. It's like they are under a witch doctor's spell.<<<

As silly as that may sound, I find that to be frighteningly accurate. The left has gone totally off the hook. They used to try to hide their bias...but not any longer. The stuff they're throwing at Sarah Palin and her family is off the charts.

Have you seen today's Day by Day cartoon? Here it is and be sure to read the previous 2 days.

(click)

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Monday, October 6, 2008, at 18:13:17 (ZULU)

I agree and I live here...for now.

I just saw a CNN story about the Saudi's involvement in the Taliban and Al Qeada parting ways. Curious what you guys think about it.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/10/06/afghan.saudi.talks/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Monday, October 6, 2008, at 18:16:40 (ZULU)

MarcS...

>"I just saw a CNN story about the Saudi's involvement in the Taliban and Al Qeada parting ways. Curious what you guys think about it."<

I think it badd for Iran, but it may not be good for us.

Of course anything that is badd for Iran is good - but an agreement between the Taliban and the Afgan govt strengthens the Taliban, and as Martha would say, "... and that's a badd thing".

The biggest problem of all of this stuff is that in that area, the countries have traditionally been either enemies, or at least, not friends.

Now those countries are forming allegiances that will become a serious problem to us in the very near future - they (as a group) control the bulk of the energy on the modern world, and we can be held hostage to their economic wants and whims - this is FAR more serious than you see on TV.

We are in it real badd... it is beginning to flow into our hip waders and there is no sign of it stopping for many years. The socialistas in the USA are fueling the problem, and no one is even talking about it.

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 6, 2008, at 19:09:20 (ZULU)

I was reading another site a little while ago about Obabma and his "global poverty" bill in congress - to tax all of the "people" in the USA to pay for welfare around the world. We "owe" them.

One of the things that is clear about these people is that they have a vision (that's ok) to make the world a better place (that's ok too!)... but they want to send the bill to others to do it for them.

The lefties, rock stars and movie stars in Kalifornia could fund the rehab of Somalia out of their loose change - but as much as they whine about it... they want others to put up the money - so they want to tax the unwashed, ignorant people of the USA to pay for global welfare - (if you are reading this site, you ARE the "unwashed, ignorant people").

Obama and his wife get loans to go to a top ivy league colleges, and he and his wife are rich... and they bitch about having to pay back the loans?

Hello, is there any intelligent life in Washington - I would LOVE to have to repay loans for a degree from Harvard, MIT, or Yale.

What a tough life those liberals have... Whaaaaa!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 6, 2008, at 20:58:05 (ZULU)

"...fueling the problem, and no one is even talking about it."

McCain finally did in a speach a hour or so ago. Obamaniacs are all over the map crying fowl on the networks. This is the hammer that must be used to drive that skinny nail into the ground.

Shifting geo-politics are the order of the day in the middle east. If we shift forces and surge the 'stan, this too will change once more. It is not a problem I'd lose sleep over.

Immediate problem: The Euro Zone needs to get their act together or our efforts will be in vain to shore up the "global" economy. I rather think the odds are long for meaningful EU interventions...and we can't do it all---as it is, we only addressed 7.5% or so of the total poison in the world's bank vaults. The EU is coming down today (dragging Russia--a house of cards--with them), and the response so far is purely national and chaotic. No uniform plan, and all parochial interest. As Martha is said to say....heheh.

Fugly stuff. Globalization is mostly finance, BTW. By forming limited partnerships thru banking, corporations were able to circumvent protectionism from the get-go. It is that mechanism that exploded and brought us the term "globalization" in the first place...and, that means what happens in Europe, hardly stays in Europe!

Now all we need is a friggin' pandemic.

Joe M
Monday, October 6, 2008, at 21:09:58 (ZULU)

Come on Joe... You know better than that. These folks want a crash so they can scoop up the wealth. A whole paradigm shift in the way money is viewed and what is accepted as money is what truly has to happen.

For a little history try this linky... http://www.xat.org/xat/moneyhistory.html

What needs to happen is an objective standard needs to be adopted for the value of what ever medium of exchange is agreed upon.. Unfortunately I see lead become a medium of exchange.....in the not so distant future.

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at 02:36:25 (ZULU)

Lead? heheh. No, that won't be used as an exchange medium so much as it will be the final legal remedy under the new contract and tort laws-of-the-jungle.

English was a drag, in rote wordsmithing from grammer to graduate. Now I find I enjoy a finely crafted sentence (though I hardly practice this here). William F. Buckley, a fellow OCS grad, was the ultimate craftsman of the written word. He was in short supply while alive...now, hell: The art be lost to we ignorant masses is all bad and shit.

OK: I received an illiterate note from a teacher...that just pisses me off for some reason. Heheh. And that beats the hell outta dwell-time on my other pressing problems:))

Take two gold bars and reload in the morning.

Joe M
Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at 04:49:09 (ZULU)

"OK: I received an illiterate note from a teacher...that just pisses me off for some reason." JoeM

Don't you just hate that. Gives you a real sick feeling about the quality of your childrens education/indoctrination. Reading what passes for textbooks just makes it worse. When we started calling teachers "educators" it was the beginning of the end.

If you're lucky your kids get through the "system" without you having to talk to the admin pukes. I don't recall recently meeting any other group with the same combination of condescending distain for the folks who are their ultimate employers and self assurance of their innate superiority.

WR Moore
Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at 12:24:01 (ZULU)

JoeM: understood on text books from current day indoc - I mean school. If you want to be amazed, open a text book say - from the 1920's.

JoeM and the Rest: Let's not forget about Israel and Iran. Iran has pretty much made their intentions known: "either leave this world - or we'll help you leave it when we become able".... Hmmmm... Okay.

Don't be surprised if Israel takes a shot at Iran's nuke facilities and a few other bonus targets while she's at it (soon).....

Watch the election dyanmics change if that happens...

My own daughter and some of my co-workers have been drinking the O'bama kool-aid... I have to grit my teeth and restrain my hands from choking them...

I tell them all: "OKAY - LOOK - THIS IS NOT SOME DAM HIGH-SCHOOL SOCIAL SCIENCE EXPERIMENT WHERE YOU CAN SAY "THAT'S ALL CLASS, GAME OVER". THIS IS A REAL NATION THAT TAKES YEARS TO CHANGE COURSE - OR RECOVER FROM DAMAGE CAUSED BY INCOMPETENT GOVERNACE....."

I tell my kid and her academic think-alikes "we left Europe for a reason..." "if you want to be like Europe - then go live in Europe"

ShopNews: Got lots of pics to update on the shop. Finally got the power company and Service cutover. Lots of juice available to run machinery, etc... Stay tuned.

Take care all,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at 13:28:46 (ZULU)

CatWhacker "would LOVE to have to repay loans for a degree from Harvard, MIT, or Yale."

That would depend on the major. Buckley was involved in a panel at Princeton during which he presented a contrast between Pericles and Caligula. Afterwards a professor objected to Buckley using such obscure examples. In a quick survey of the audience, almost none of our finest minds had any idea of who Pericles or Caligula were.

These ignoramuses are running the country.

CDC'
Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at 17:00:20 (ZULU)

CDC - you know how the law works... some animals are more equal (the one's with money and connections)..

Why would you be surprised that the Ivy League works any different?

medicjim
Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at 17:15:25 (ZULU)

Thanks for the info. My booksIgottaread list just grew 25% larger. I guess I'll buy a .17 mach 2 to compliment the .17 furball. I need some of that bailout cash for my "emergency" supplies fund ; )

Midway has an interesting Nikon scope in their flyer (Nikon) 6-18 for $299 w/third turret & dots.

So much stuff, so little time.

4eyes
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at 17:38:35 (ZULU)

BOHICA!!! (Bend over, here it comes again!)

Just when you thought you had a problem with the $700,000,000,000 bail out (actually $850,000,000,000 with the $150,000,000,000 of pork), our GWF (Great White Father) in Washington just socked to us AGAIN.

Today, Bush announced that the fed is "buying up: one Trillion (with a "T") dollars worth of short term, unsecured debt (credit cards) so the economy will "move forwards.

So you and I just picked up nearly two trillion worth of dept, and the assholes that actually owed the money, got a freebee that just can't be beat!

Now I wish I had a $100,000 in credit card debt, so I could pass it on :((

(not really !)

And what does Wall Street think of this creative innovation - down 300 points.

Bush has wrecked the Republican party for the next 8 (or 16) years.

It's gonna be badd!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at 20:29:03 (ZULU)

Duman,

Just texted my "Uncle" Barb and Lori your joke, slightly modified: "Is a Lesbian bar in Alaska a Klondike bar?". Uncle barb says she hopes so; they're better when they don't have a stick!

"lito,

I thought I was the only one that drank the dark spiced rum. I had one big bottle last me about a year before I finally had to get REALLY drunk by finishing it myself.

Scwarzenegger can go fuck himself, and so can all of his buddies who violated their oath of office("to uphold this office, and the laws of this city, state, country and constitution, so help me God.") when they declared "sanctuary cities". Maybe they'll be able to sell their multimillion dollar homes to suppport the illegals through n "adopt a wetback" program before anyone notices their neighborhood is slowly turning into a barrio.

Yes, CDC, I know that SOUNDS racist, but look at where Mexicans live. THE FUCKING BARRIO! Also, look at Mexico. Rather than cleaning up their own country, they're jumping ship, so they can fuck ours up.

Joe,

God Bless you, peanut, the horses, dogs, et al. Try Mucinex. Only use the name brand. It really, really works.

On the Obama-ites being immune to logic and reason; I hate those stupid fucks! They're ALWAYS wanting to debate: but as soon as you start making sense or points, they refuse to listen, and say you're not making sense, or they're not gonna listen if you're not willing to be reasonable.

'Lito,

If you went to an Ivy league college, you'd get expelled the first day for making to much sense. Or for stomping preppie kids. Or being a dick in general. Anyways, it wouldn't last long. Same goes for me and most hee, I would think.

Joe,

".... illiterate note from a teacher" Just makes you want to smack the fuck out of them for all the time you had to diagram sentences when you were in school, don't it?

The other day, I was discussing such things with a good friend, and we got on the subject of schools.

On rights, we were told to sit down and shut up while they explained about the bill of rights. If we complained, we were suspended.

On government, we were promised a system of checks and balances. I remember getting sent out of the room for being the asshole in the back of the room asking, "What if BOTH the legislative and judicial parties are crooked?" I still want the fucking answer, but not a demonstration!

Ken,

I hear ya. People are so far removed from reality, they don't seem to realise that this isn' a reality show or some damned game. It's not some social experiment. This is the ral shit! We can't just hit "reset"!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at 22:19:56 (ZULU)

"Strong voter registration efforts launched by Obama and Democrats appeared to pay off, with Obama leading McCain by 63 percent to 47 percent among voters who have registered to vote in the last six months."--Reuters, Oct. 7

Hmmm...Daley (the elder), having recently voted, is disappointed in his protoge for only garnering a measley 110% in his efforts thus far. The dead mayor then offered some advice: "Not just dead dudes, dude...ya need to go after the school children and european vote too." (the reuters story is actual as written...my paragraph is the satire. figured I'd point that out, as both are equally absurd)

Escalation: It is real baaaaaaaaaad right now. What a sh!tty day. Just crap. Divorce sux. No winners, just a mess of what once was.

Joe M
Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at 23:16:26 (ZULU)

WTF are you talking about, Travis? I grew up in "THE FUCKING BARRIO!" and got out as fast as I could. You won't find anybody who is more eager to seal the border and enforce immigration laws.

When did I say anything different?

CDC'
Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at 23:31:38 (ZULU)

CDC,

I don't remember when, but some time back, I said something about Mexicans coming here and fucking up the country, or mentioned the barrio, and you got on one of your rants. I swear, I thought you were gonna start one of your rants and start calling me, "homie" over and over. It was pretty comical.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at 23:37:10 (ZULU)

I just turned the debate off....... My five year old grandson could do better than either one. We're effing doomed.

Bolt, the *uc* out!

Bolt
Disturbed in......, NC, - Wednesday, October 8, 2008, at 02:45:49 (ZULU)

Travis: Out to settle some old grudge?

You win. Enjoy.

CDC'
Wednesday, October 8, 2008, at 05:37:20 (ZULU)

Travis,

>We can't just hit "reset"!<

That's what that big mushroom shaped cloud is, the Master Reset!

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Wednesday, October 8, 2008, at 06:11:24 (ZULU)

JoeM: "Obamaniacs are all over the map crying fowl ..."

Those chicken-shits....

Duman
Wednesday, October 8, 2008, at 06:19:40 (ZULU)

Anybody got some opinion on the debate last night.

I didn't watch it - I'm so tired of this dog and pony show that I could puke.

How the fuck did a country like this come up with a pair of losers like these two clowns is totally beyond me.

McCain has the economic facts on his side, and could kill Obama, Barney Frank, and Chris Dodd in one fell swope... and he says about it.

The asshole doesn't deserve the win... and the fast talking, pretty boy in the empty suit will kill us for sure, so no matter who wins, we are phucked!

CDC and Travis.... play nice (did I say that??)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, October 8, 2008, at 13:47:36 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Sorry I missed your call. I teach on Tuesday evenings, don't get home until ~11 or so.

I'll give you a call later in the week.

Lito-san: I think you and I should buy blood pressure meds in bulk, from that gal in Canada, the same one trying to sell me Viagra, Levitra, and Cialis.....

Duman
Wednesday, October 8, 2008, at 14:49:02 (ZULU)

"That's what that big mushroom shaped cloud is, the Master Reset!"

C:\\ Format C: God's dos command for a do-over;))

Economy: Screwed...Politics: royally screwed...Marriage: World class screwed...personal finance: another screwing...the last 15 years of my life: wastefully screwed...collection of firearms: Likely screwed hard (see another screwing)...me: doing jes' fine.

Inexplicably, I haven't felt this damned happy in years. My scale of "problems in life" tops out with mass death, starvation and failed nations, and descends quickly to the petty from there. So, my current BS is small potatoes (quayle)for me...and the world to my children. There is my fight, my only concern in the world. the rest of it is just extraneous stuff. Being a confident (arrogant?) cuss helps too. I am getting used to this newfound feeling: Each day starts with promise...not dread and caution. Whatta tremendous change for me.

Joe M
Wednesday, October 8, 2008, at 17:08:05 (ZULU)

"Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives and I decline." -REM, (The End Of The World)

Conquistadors sometimes used the practice of beaching their ship in the sand in order to drive the point home to the crew: "no turning back, we go forward or die". We'll go home when we're well enough off that we can build another ship or repair this one.

Consider this nothing more than a demarcation in time, when our ship was run into the sand.

We'll be OK. We're Americans. The greatest people on the face of the earth. People who outperformed the rest of the world in every measure. The hardest working, most generous people on the planet.

We've just got to do a few things:

1. Toss all politicos into a meatgrinder. They are public SERVANTS, and yet they don't feel restricted by the contract we drew up with them. Time for 'em to go. Thomas Jefferson was RIGHT.

2. Rid the area of amirikan residents. The Bible says a man that doesn't work shouldn't eat, and a man that doesn't provide for his family is worse than an infidel. Our shores aren't the welfare or charity line for other countries. We need to understand that our misassumed liability for the world population really is that: misassumed.

3. Band together for the common good. Be it with family, neighbors, or whomever. Talk about a return of the "sense of community"..... Ain't nobody getting out of this one dry - the bigger your community, the better off you'll be.

What to do until then? Well, there's the 5G and 3B. But each and every day should be treated as the blessing it really is.

Bravo
Wednesday, October 8, 2008, at 19:48:05 (ZULU)

OK, if we are to discuss apocalypse....

"Anyone who clings to the historically untrue, and thoroughly immoral, doctrine that violence never settles anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler would referee. Violence; naked force, has settled more issues in history than any other factor and the contrary is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forgot this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and with their freedoms." -Robert Heinlein

medicjim
Wednesday, October 8, 2008, at 20:39:45 (ZULU)

"How the fuck did a country like this come up with a pair of losers like these two clowns is totally beyond me."

'Lito: I'm sure we all know people who would be better at being President of the United States than the candidates nominated by the two major parties who are the only ones with a chance to win.

However, they are people who are way too smart to run for public office.

That's what we've come down to - from people like those who felt a duty to be the founding fathers of our country, to pond scum who can't think of better things to do with their lives.

That may be the death of our Republic.

However, before you will be told the truth, you must be willing to hear it - and I'm afraid there are hard truths which the American public is not willing to hear.

So, we get politicians who promise easy solutions to difficult problems - and we believe them and vote for them.

We have exactly the government we deserve, alas.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territory of Mexico, U.S.A. - Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 02:01:20 (ZULU)

Lindy: Barney Frank -- of all people -- said, "Elected officials are bad, but the electorate is no prize either."

He was right.

CDC'
Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 03:09:24 (ZULU)

Apocalypse, what apocalypse?

Hey, where the hell are all these dolphins goin'?

Now that's a catchy tune:

"So long...and thanks for all the fish..."

Iceland (not just their central bank--but the whole bowl of noodles) is trying desperately to prevent foreclosure. I made an offer of 25 sheckels on ebay. I like my scotch on the rocks, and that IS whole buncha' ice, eh? They must be closed for the night; I'm still waiting for a response. I figure I can make myself a few cold drinks, then flip it for a new truck down the road. Hey; they want 75.00 in small coin, two dog kennels and a boston whaler. So, one of ya's is gonna hafta ride back to town and get us a whole shitload of dimes...

As much as I like a good scotch, I'm now thinking of holding out for Germany. Get er done for two schnitzels and a pair of groucho glasses. If they balk, I'll toss in a pair of ducks. It's worth it, if only to grab a S&B PMII or three before parting the whole of it out for the scrap value:))

Wasn't it just yesterday that the world was gobbling up US assets? How the worm turns....but, before you get all starry-eyed over the bargain basement prospects...just wait til we get our turn in the econo-blender of fiat monetary magic. Iz gowen to suks fer the lotta us.

Grab your towel...and tune your Sub-Etha Sens-O-Matics; and have a scotch on me...I've cornered the ice market on a stack of Eisenhowers...

"This planet has--or rather had--a problem, which was this: most of the people on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small pieces of green paper that were unhappy."

"And so the problem remained; lots of the people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches.

"Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should have left the oceans.

"And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, one girl sitting on her own in a small cafe in Rickmansworth suddenly realized what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.

"Sadly, however, before she could get to a phone to tell anyone about it, a terribly stupid catastrophe occurred, and the idea was lost forever.

"This is not her story.

"But it is the story of that terrible and stupid catastrophe and some of its consequences." --Douglas Adams

Click for 600 pages or so of the rest of the story... and no, I am not drinking yet. Do you realize how hard it is to find a lawyer to close on a country?

Joe M
Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 03:14:04 (ZULU)

http://skippyslist.com/

Time for some humor...

Some of you on the list may remember Skippy, the MI Soldier who came up with the classic "213 Things Skippy Is Not Allowed Do Do" while he was in Bosnia.

Well, he's back and Skippy apparently an Army Reserve Soldier still up to his antics in civilian life and on deployment. We're not sure who Skippy is - SPC Schwarz is the moniker he uses. He would have fit in well with the ASA.

Be sure to read the AAR on the MAM beating up an EOD robot.

Yeah, Skippy's back and no one is safe.

Enjoy

Trajan Aurelius
East Bay, CA, USA - Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 03:54:37 (ZULU)

Joe M.,

Thanks for the "Hitchhiker's Guide" excerpt. I was wondering how long it would be before someone referenced Douglas Adams.

When 'lito asked, "How the fuck did a country like this come up with a pair of losers like these two clowns is totally beyond me.", I immediately thought of Zaphod Beeblebrox and how he became Galactic President.

Thanks for the laughs, guys.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 05:25:44 (ZULU)

Christ-O !!!

Why do I have a sudden urge to go hug my riffle?!

Soooo...then....MORE ammo, water, MREs, batteries, poly rope, gold.......? Scotch????? Would now be a good time to start digging that hole in the back yard to bury the bus load of goodies? (broke the shovel on Y2K, never got it done)

Which reminds me. Fuck retirement! I have to get started on that build-your-own-coffin kit I ordered. Tick-tock!

Steve Racer
Somewhere in Dillsburg, Rendell-ville, formerly USA - Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 07:18:06 (ZULU)

CDC,

No grudge; I just figured you'd jump in my shit like you normally do. There have been several occassions where I or someone else said something rather innocuous, and you flew off the handle. Mentioning race in any way, shape, or form seems to be all it takes for you to decide that the speaker is a racist. I detest this type of alarmism. It's an awful lot like asking someone if they've stopped beating their wife.

Joe,

"Flipping Germany" - Don't forget a box full of Mauser actions and a small herd of beer wenches!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 11:26:20 (ZULU)

Travis: I recommend editing that last post. People don't want to hear it. Take it off line.

CDC'
Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 12:39:24 (ZULU)

Joe:

I guess I shouldn't be surprised we're both Douglas Adams fans too. Contact me offline if your want any DNA (Douglas N. Adams) text, audio or video. I've collected most of it. His posthumously published collection/book was fun too, if you haven't read it yet.

(I won't be getting to my email until I return home).

The Salmon of Doubt by Douglas Adams

Rod Regier
vacationing in Orlando,FL, - Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 14:55:33 (ZULU)

Rod: If all snow birds were like you, I'd seal our border AFTER you arrived and re-populate this country with proper patriots. Is salmon of doubt about earthII (the mice reconstructing their experiement) only to end at the bar? I think I read that in A'stan...

My DNA discovery was in the early 80s, whilst vacationing in Oahu for two years courtesy of the US Army. I was 18-19, and later revisted his works again, finding even more reason to like it. To get his concepts is to already know how absurd we are as a people with our inability to get perspective on what is truly important in life. Where most find simpleton humor, I found an underlying philosophy that indicted what I instinctively did not like in society:)) It's that between the lines stuff that made for the real genius behind the guise of sci-fi slapstick.

Travis: CDC is a good and decent fellow. I have no idea why you would post what you posted about good ole' aka CDC. Not nice....and I otherwise enjoy chats and posts from you---so I'm not piling on or choosing sides. I'm just giving a friend my opinion that formed from my concept of honor and integrity. Take it for what it is worth...

Joe M
Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 17:41:34 (ZULU)

click my name for some info at Joe Biden's expense

medicjim
Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 17:41:43 (ZULU)

CDC...no, no. Let him post. It's like watching Verne Troyer dance, or Joaquin Phoenix try to whistle.

Charles Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 18:07:00 (ZULU)

Travis are you sure you aren't trying to post in the GD at ARFCOM? I think you had the wrong window open because it sure reads like it!

Geoff M
WI, USA - Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 20:22:15 (ZULU)

Hunker down cowboys...

The Dow is down ~700 points today - on top of what it has lost in the last few weeks!

It is going to get real badd!

Martha Stewart is getting drunk!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 21:21:39 (ZULU)

hey Joe:

Salmon of Doubt was published in 2003.

(review) By T. Hooper "thdizzy" (Osaka, Japan)

This review is from: The Salmon of Doubt (Paperback)

The wit of the late Douglas Adams shines through in this brief volume. It consists of mainly two parts. The first part consists of essays and interviews with Adams that have appeared in magazines and on the internet. Hitchhiker fans will especially love "Young Zaphod Plays it Safe." The second part is an unfinished novel by Adams. The first part is satisfying because you can see Adams' character shining through. In these writings, different facets of his personality sparkle for all to see. The second part is unsatisfactory though. It is patched together from a few early drafts, and it is unpolished. Second, it only consists of a few chapters, so the story stops midway through without any resolution, which is a little frustrating. Perhaps this volume would have been better if it had focused on the essays and letters of Adams and left the unfinished novel alone. If you're a big Adams fan, you'll want to pick this up for the first part and to see the second part to satisfy your curiousity. If you're not a big fan, you should skip this one, and try the Hitchhiker's series instead.

I guess I'm a snowbird because I reside in Canada and visit Florida :-) My primary purpose behind my Florida visits is to see most of my immediate family who reside in the Orlando area. Cold weather doesn't really scare me, and I'm not a big fan of really warm weather. Ironically I'm an American residing in Canada, moved there in 1968 as a pre-teen. (Interesting milestone year w/GCA'68). My family emigrated to Canada when my father got a job in Halifax. (He chose between an offer in Texas and an offer in Nova Scotia). I received my higher education in Halifax and have been employed in that region since then. The rest of my immediate family individually moved back south at various times.

I didn't own any firearms until I was 30, although I was interested and owned toy guns was a child. I've also read voraciously on the topic and history, so I've made up for any "lost" time. I'm into it in a big way now. IPSC since 1986, TR/F class for a few years now and all sorts of practice time at the range with other stuff. Trying to become a better precision rifle shot, which is where the CZ452 Silhouette w/optic in .22LR comes into play.

rod regier
vacationing in Orlando,FL, - Thursday, October 9, 2008, at 22:36:41 (ZULU)

Gents: Another 7% drop in corporate valuations? Ha! This minor crap right now is just the prelude. The crisis-management adopted by the fed to stabilize the situation, treasury's war chest bail-out of printing presses in full production mode, and congress seeking to do another round of "vote buying" rebates and continuous pork in anything they debate---there lies root causes of the real fun times ahead: As I once said, if everyone has a truckload of dollars, the guy with a watermellon and a knife is the richest bastard on earth...Or, if I have 10,000 bags of donuts selling for $4 a piece, and 100,000 cops show up with a a pocket full of 100-dollars bills---how much will these sell for? Yeah...about a 100 bucks. And now the EU is playing these same "just print-money" games on the national level, and Asia is caught holding baskets of dubious paper. Helicopter Ben---just dump money on the problem.

Never forget that a few hundred's of billion here is a slim slice of the GDP pie, but elsewhere it is the whole damned pie. Tis why we seem to be "doing well" right this minute with fuel prices dropping, and not much else looking bad aside from wall st.

And, if you still doubt me becuase the government has to know what it is doing: Consider what exactly was just said. A bunch of narcissistic trial lawyers are going to fix what??? The free market system???? I hope they do a better job than say, oh, the 35W bridge in Minnie; the southern border; social security; appellate courts with more vacancies than NY's Ritz-Carlton; the tax code itself; or heck--just writing checks that it can cover...yeah, when you think about where all foolish hope lies, it makes you wanna cringe.

So, when bread soars to $45/ loaf, and everyone's a millionaire--I wanna be a member of the gun-a-holics 500.

Seriously; consider this: If I have the treasury crank out a million bills per citizen, and now every last one of us is a millionaire---WTF does it mean to be a millionaire? Nothing. And that is where the mighty buck will end up...as a nuthin'. A big green pile of paper, good for starting wood stoves and wiping butts.

We're already on that path at warp 8. To return to an earlier analogy: Right now, all eyes are on that big bouncing ball so recently pumped up with so many dollars. All eyes are waiting to see if it will bounce back up higher and higher as it always did before. Nobody has yet realized that the floor itself is gone---the ball is heading down as we all hold our breath in terrible anticipation...soon, sooner than I would wish, someone will be the first to notice that there will be no bounce cuz there will be no floor to bounce on---and at that moment, all hell is upon us.

Joe M
Friday, October 10, 2008, at 04:53:01 (ZULU)

Ok, since we are talking Doomsday Country, some of you seem to have a pretty good handle on this whole mess. I sure don`t. Given that, who wants to take a crack at what life on Erf will look like in the coming year or six? Are we talking pencils on the street corner and soup lines? Or does it look different than that. I really don`t know how ugly it`s going to get, but judging from how much people AREN`T saying, I figure it will be pretty ugly come Christmas time and beyond. Desparation will set in when jobs go away, pensions go away, 401Ks are just a memory, even the staples of survival that all the button pushers took for granted just a year ago vanish as if the never existed. I don`t know if I`ll be what you call "sitting pretty", but I figure I`ll be better off than most. I got some goodies socked away and I have useful, marketable skills, and I got weapons and ammo. I have a feeling the stock on self-sufficiency just went up.

What say you?

Steve Racer
Erf, - Friday, October 10, 2008, at 06:42:57 (ZULU)

Hey Steve,

Don't forget your friends and neighbors..As things slide more towards chaos they will become increasingly more important.. Net work NOW with folks of like mind. Retire any debt you can. Look at means of production/storage/preservation of food stuffs. Think of little things that the big trucks bring to wally world on a regular basis that are cheap now but will be damned near impossible to get later.. ( any one remember the big toilet paper shortage in the 70's ? ) Think some form of alternative heating for your home.. Be flexible in your income stream.. or in simpler terms do what ya can for cash/barter material. You know, the things you already do !

Bottom line is the country is in the same place that the french were before thier revolution.. The gubbermint was bankrupt and destroying the wealth of the land with taxes and foreign wars.. But the people weren't bankrupt (materially, not necessarily morally but that's another story all together ) and they resented the hell out of the kings decrees.....

Sound familiar ?

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Friday, October 10, 2008, at 12:18:19 (ZULU)

Hey guys, well IM back again, I used to post here years ago, and only dropped a couple lines since then.

I guess with America, scratch that, the world in serious trouble its a good time to get reunited with people who actually are prepared, talk about it, and dont go off on the "your paranoid" bs I get in the other forums I check out.

Anyhow. Good to be back.

Partisan
Mt, USA - Friday, October 10, 2008, at 12:54:23 (ZULU)

It's been a while.....As things continue on a downward trend, life in the sticks looks better all the time. Hope all is as well as can be with all of you.

Rule #1..Nobody gets across the bridge!

Outa here

markwell

markwell
The Alleghenies, WV, - Friday, October 10, 2008, at 15:12:51 (ZULU)

Steve: Stretch you imagination thru each and every "essential service" employee's brain as he realizes it's yet another week of his booses "having some problems," meaning yet another week without pay. Cops. Engineers at the power plant. Now, imagine a family watching food prices roll up like the price on a high volume gas pump in July:) No money, soon to be no food. What would you do? Would you go to to work and keep the elecricity flowing or would you go hunting to get something ion the table for your kids? Now, multiply by about 60 million;))

Without ready capital, services WILL breakdown. The government will overreact. People will panic. Force will be deployed against "hoarders." The phrase "for the common good" will make you puke with each new repressive intrusion into your life it represents. The wolves will come out to play...and these aren't the wolves we have today, but rather the ones we create thru desperation. Local petty tyrranies will be the order of the day in places. Cities will be no place to be any where near.

3 years for the full monte, dude. But that's IMHO; I saw "as early as this October" a few months back---but I did not see the friggin' depths of what we are seeing now. It is, to put a point on it, coming undone already in ways I thought it would take a quarter or three just to start. I do not know what this means...and neither does anyone else. This is the "human factor" that is in full play now--the great unknown and unknowable variable that makes this stuff impossible to truly gauge. Its the human factor itself that makes a dollar a dollar. My 3 years is normal-times flow of massive infusions of un-earned cash at the top of finance to filter around throughout the economy enough for enough people to say: "WTF? I thought I was rich and here everyone is outbidding me for everything." When people realize that a dollar is no longer a dollar--that is when it happens, and when it happens--it happens literally overnight. Just ask an Argentinean or hell, Hitler's ghost. First, I need more dollars to get my next delivery, or my competitor will outbid me again for the next erratic load of chow....the peace officer realizes that he is literally pulling insane overtime for 1.5 loaves of bread and nothing more...etc. etc. etc.

Equilibrium: The economic art of many things, among these are: the amount of available "actual greenbacks" being in parity with the total value of things as they are (value of your labor, value of your house, the "right value" of goods and services, etc) It is all finite and could, if we had a stop watch that freezes time--be exactly calculated to the penny. It is also the point where a price will settle for anything in the market where a given supply can meet a given demand (if gas supplies drop off, but nobody parks their car--this is called gouging). Lately, Bernacke has printed actual dollars that have no corresponding value---no "new things or services" that can match up to these wet-ink dollar bills. Right now, these are being dumped into a hole that nobody knows how wide or deep it really is---and, eventually, the hole will define itself and the extra dollars will spill over on all our heads.

Variables: Price controls and rationing. Easiest way to create shortages is for the government to artifically try to stabilize a given commodity or service. This has without fail proven to be gasoline in every fire throughout histiry--and is a natural bone-headed overreaction for those with authority and little responisbility. While it will accelrate everything downward, I expect we shall see this soon....esp. from an Obama admin. Another variable is the realization that there IS too many dollars BEFORE they make an appearance on center stage at the user level. Watch the mercantile and gold. That is our early warning, but in days--not months.

It is cetainly more complicated than this, but the fundemental basis is simply equilibrium off-kilter and human psychology over the true value of the dollar.

Joe M
Friday, October 10, 2008, at 15:41:06 (ZULU)

Bravo's mention of REM's "End of the World" now seems a perfect match for the situation. I'd maybe add the Beatles' Revolution to this playlist...

Wide-spread allegations of, and outright proof of massive voter fraud in nearly all metropolitan jurisdictions, overnight credit between banks at zero on the week, world equity losses larger than the US deficit in just one week, the presses at treasury at full production with unorecendented auhtority to nationalize everything it wants....the perfect storm. Where do YOU put your faith? In a fair election? That government can handle this crisis? The markets can right this mess? Or, just in yourself, your tools, and your closest allies?

What a week!

Joe M
Friday, October 10, 2008, at 23:45:14 (ZULU)

An interesting result of the "new technology"...

... guys set their computer to sell if one of their stocks goes below a certain price.

Like you have a bunch or stocks, and you set the computer to sell any one of them if they drop a given percentage, or below a fixed price.

So you have a 100 different stocks and two go below the "sell price" and the computer sells both of them automatically.

But in a situation like we have now - all the computers tripped at once and the started selling EVERYTHING yesterday and today...

... and no one was at the helm!

We create our own stock market crash with the help of stupid computers.

Glad the comouters aren't guarding the country...

... wait a minute - I think the same computers are in the Pentagon :(((

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 11, 2008, at 01:14:03 (ZULU)

Lito,

The computer sell-off was the root cause of the '87 crash. There were safe guards implemented after that incident, but maybe they aren't working.....

Where's Bravo?

Duman
Saturday, October 11, 2008, at 01:32:44 (ZULU)

Duman...

I didn't know that - hell, I was working on a Commodore 64 at the time :)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 11, 2008, at 05:00:42 (ZULU)

This is just the first of these fiscal fiascos. Medicare, Medicaid, Sociable Security, Pensions all over the place and more are lurking.

CDC'
Saturday, October 11, 2008, at 05:18:45 (ZULU)

CDC...

Hell yes. Those think that this is just a blip on the screen are in for a BIG shock. The whole country has been living in a pyramid scheme for 30 years, and it's coming time to get the ".. comes around" part.

I was talking to a bunch of folks the other day, and they didn't have the slightest idea of how much money is owed by the country (by them!!)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 11, 2008, at 05:40:59 (ZULU)

On the lighter side; For the last couple of days I hunted deer. Thursday I went from 6,000ish to 9,000ft+. We had a cold snap with 35+ mph wind. My backpacking gear was for warmer weather. I've shivvered hard before but this is the first time I've had convulsions. They will warm your right up. The bacon double-cheeseburger I had for lunch was put to good use.

Osprey makes a very good pack.

CDC'
Saturday, October 11, 2008, at 06:40:22 (ZULU)

Gents,

I'm sure many of you have heard that Obama's cousing is the leader of the socialist "Orange Democratic Party" in Kenya. He is a tin pot politician of the first order, and Obama campaigned for him, on the taxpayer's dime. I'm willing to bet he was taking notes too.

When his cousin lost the election by roughly 250,000 votes, he got on the media and demanded that his followers make their feelings known, and riots, murder, and mayhem enveloped Kenya.

Obama has stated that he wants to stand up an internal security force. It is generally assumed that most active and NG troops, along with quite a few LEOs, took their oath to defend the Constitution seriously. So, if you want to give the country away to your riff raff base and institute socialism on a broad scale.......you would pretty much have to gut the military and then stand up your OWN army, internally.....with your ranks drawn from the inner cities and ghettos......people that are very insistent that more needs to be taken from the hard working and given to them. Call it "affirmative action" of the most sinister kind. It would be easy to do, just call it a government jobs program for those who are in the worst of economic shape. These people won't give two shits about the US Constitution!

If Obama were to lose, I don't think he would issue a call to arms. BUT, if you think your Army won't stand behind you and may be a threat when you enact sweeping socialism, then you gut it and you stand up an army of your supporters who just want what YOU have, and turn them loose.

We MIGHT be looking at real, no-shit tin pot dictator type stuff if Obama gets in, IMO.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Saturday, October 11, 2008, at 10:05:27 (ZULU)

Best hi-cap mags for Ruuuuggggeeerrrr 10/22 standard and 10/22 mag?

44mag.com is running an ARFCOM special for those of you that may only have 1 AR mag :) Have to be an ARFCOM member.

http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=dh30bg

Is there a CETME expert in the house? I kinda sorta want to keep this thing but this mag fit situation pisses me off. 23 out of 60 sucketh.

I want a Garand and an M1A. Hate to buy something off the net without seeing it but there ain't nuthin used around here. Doesn't have to be pristine, just shooters. Would trust a Hawg's judgement.

Time to can sweet taters, Bolt out!

Bolt
NC, - Saturday, October 11, 2008, at 15:41:58 (ZULU)

Dillon Blue Press

There's a write-up of a Sig Sauer P250. A new offering from SIG which lets you swap from 9mm, 357-SIG, 40-S&W, and 45-ACP without any gunsmithing. Apparently, the various kits will swap in/out pretty quickly.

Has anyone seen one of these?

Duman
Saturday, October 11, 2008, at 16:40:31 (ZULU)

Lito: The cost of insurance for Treasuries--that debt you mentioned--has risen four-fold over this last year. That market is saying: Uncle Sam's full faith and credit isn't what it used to be. Click. The last line of this piece, "The unthinkable is being thought (a US default)..." And yiu are right: Dirivitives are the ultimate pyramid scheme. The whole of our economy is the bubble. Greenspan, Carter, Clinton and certain current members of congress (who are now in full counter-accusation mode) will be judged by history and found guilty as hell. The only question remaining is: Who will write this history?

Duman: My dealer laments Sig's recent QC issues, FWIW. He likes the older stuff...

Bolt: day late...mine is gone.

CDC: My ex2B de-tuned my bow. Just cranked it off my setting and almost off the limb (now that is just mean). Now I need a scale to reset it so I too can hunt deer. I'd rather be out your way...but here is not so bad.

Joe M
Saturday, October 11, 2008, at 17:40:21 (ZULU)

Bolt [quote]Is there a CETME expert in the house? I kinda sorta want to keep this thing but this mag fit situation pisses me off. 23 out of 60 sucketh[/quote]

I have had a couple that did not work that were the H&K mags. After a couple of times of forcing them in they work just fine, you can also just carefully look at the ones that work and break out the file on the ones that R not fitting properly and that will do the trick as well.

Partison
Anaconda, MT, USA - Saturday, October 11, 2008, at 18:19:41 (ZULU)

Bolt,

It's hard to beat the ODCMP when it comes to M1 Rifles (Garand).

http://www.odcmp.com/

They ship direct to your door.

medicjim
Sunday, October 12, 2008, at 01:29:50 (ZULU)

Speaking of books: My all-time favorite polical novels are, "I Claudius" and "Claudius the God" by Robert Graves. Read them and you will never see the world in the same way. You can bet Obama and the Clintons read them.

Survival Country: Figure living in and heating a small part of your house. Blow in insulation, some plumbing mods, a tiny wood/pellet stove, a ton of wheat and beans, vitamins, a barrel or two of dry milk, the same in canola oil, honey, salt,...what else?

Joe M: Has it occurred to your x2b how handy a SF O-4 can be when the going gets squirrely? Well, whatever. Send her "just a friend" a thank you card.

CDC'
Sunday, October 12, 2008, at 02:36:02 (ZULU)

re: Garands

From what I have read of other's experiences in the US, have to concur with Medicjim's recommendations - ODCMP is the ticket.

I purchased two Garands several years ago when the wave of surplus Garands hit Canada in 1997 for firesale prices. I made US collectors cry telling them what we paid. ($C275 in 1997 for the Beretta, similar for the Winchester). Got a nice 1955 Beretta and a fairly late WWII vintage Winchester. A friend got a ultra-rare Breda (other Italian post-WWII Garand mfgr besides Beretta). I detail stripped, de-cosmolined, cleaned and lubed several units for friends. Replaced the Op-rod spring with in-spec units from Fulton Armory (can't get any more from them in Canada - sigh :-( Also did a rough-and-ready headspace check.

Rod Regier
still vacationing in partly sunny Orlando, FL, - Sunday, October 12, 2008, at 03:33:33 (ZULU)

CDC - My house was built in 2001 around the concepts you mentioned.

I base my food reserves on the items we consume regularly.... I just buy more, date it and keep it in the cellar. My wife depletes the reserve rather than making trips to the grocery store...and I replenish monthly to maintain a target inventory.

medicjim
Sunday, October 12, 2008, at 12:56:56 (ZULU)

Howdy folks,

The sky is falling eh? Perhaps, but to me it looks a lot more like our economy is just about ripe for investment. People are short selling now while the government is busy kiddie-diddlin' the markets, because, duh, but they'll buy back when it rock bottoms. Right now, I'm just watching for good deals on rifles.

Why do you think 80+% of the american populace said 'NO BAILOUT' please? The governments role should have included indicting those involved with F&F, knocking the crap out of AIG, and evicting the congressmen who run these financial committees. Cut taxes, corporate and fica, get some of the people's money back to them. Cut red tape, let free enterprise do it's thing. But stay the fuck out of the private markets.

All I know is times like this is when a guy should be out there reading the wind, getting some shooting time in. It's getting more expensive to shoot, so each shot counts. This keeps up in the global economy, we may just be thankful we had the extra shooting practice.

later

JR
Florida, - Sunday, October 12, 2008, at 16:20:46 (ZULU)

CDC: I use oak. I have enough dead fall ready to go to last a year or two. The haul from the back forty to here is done with tractors or trucks---but could go to horse and car hood on snow easily enough. I'm prepared to lose my upper story in a pinch. Its an old narrow stairs, easily insulated (I have a few rolls of R18) and some plywood---just flush to the ceiling straight to the third step from the top:)) As for food, I'm canning the garden. I have a root cellar with some extras, and I have an absurdly comfortable "family camp" set up that would make up for the immediate problems of loss of power or propane.

I am far from ready for the worst scenarios.

Thank you cards: That thought has occurred to me, too, but I should to wait until the ink is dry on my divorce. For now, I pray he keeps her happy.

An article about a mechanism I mentioned a while ago. click

Joe M
Sunday, October 12, 2008, at 16:29:48 (ZULU)

After weeks of the liberals screaming that it was Bush's economic policies that are at fault.. (What policies, Bush didn't have ne steeenkin' economic policies ;)

... "Da trut" is finely floating to the surface.

1. Barney Frank Hit Over Boyfriend’s Fannie Mae Role

Critics are crying “conflict of interest” over Democratic Rep. Barney Frank’s live-in relationship with Fannie Mae executive Herb Moses while Frank was on the House Banking Committee.

Moses was Fannie Mae’s assistant director for product initiatives from 1991 to 1998.

He was also openly gay Frank’s live-in boyfriend during that time, while the Massachusetts lawmaker was on the committee that had jurisdiction over government-sponsored Fannie Mae, Fox News’ Bill Sammon reported.

Now that Fannie Mae is at the center of the recent financial meltdown, the relationship is coming under increased scrutiny.

“It’s absolutely a conflict,” said Dan Gainor, vice president of the Business & Media Institute.

“He was voting on Fannie Mae at a time when he was involved with a Fannie Mae executive. How is that not germane? But everyone wants to avoid it because he’s gay. It’s the quintessential double standard.”

A top Republican House aide told Fox News: “He writes housing and banking laws and his boyfriend is a top exec at a firm that stands to gain from those laws? No media ever take note?”

Frank and Moses met in 1987 and lived together in Washington, D.C., until they split up in 1998.

National Mortgage News disclosed that Moses “helped develop many of Fannie Mae’s affordable housing and home improvement lending programs.”

Critics charge that such programs led to the mortgage meltdown and the recent government takeover of Fannie Mae, according to Fox News, which noted that Fannie Mae and its financial cousin Freddie Mac “are blamed for spreading bad mortgages throughout the private financial sector.”

In 1994, Frank thwarted efforts by President Clinton’s Department of Housing and Urban Development to impose new regulations on Fannie Mae.

Collapse of Government Sponsored Housing

In 2003 Frank opposed Bush administration proposals for creating a new agency to oversee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, while removing existing oversight from Congress and the Department of Housing and Urban Development, stating: "These two entities... are not facing any kind of financial crisis. The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."

As recently as July 14, 2008 in an interview on business news channel CNBC, Frank said Fannie and Freddy were essentially sound and in no danger of collapse, and promised action to improve their prospects.

Amidst the 2008 financial market turmoil, billionaire Rupert R. Murdoch has repeatedly pointed blame at Frank and a few others as the root cause of the recent housing crisis. In a recent interview, Murdoch claimed that Frank's plan in the early nineties pushed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to make bad loans to underprivileged families. An anonymous opinion piece published in The Wall Street Journal — owned by Murdoch — on 9 September 2008 called Barney Frank "the Patron Saint of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac".

Frank called Republican criticism of the Community Reinvestment Act in light of the nation's housing crisis a veiled attack on the poor that's racially motivated.

On 24 September, Frank reacted to Republican nominee John McCain's supposed suspension of his presidential campaign by saying it was, "the longest Hail Mary in the history of either football or Marys." At the time he also said “McCain is Andy Kaufman in his Mighty Mouse costume - ‘Here I Come to Save the Day.’”

On September 29, Frank told the House of Representatives Fannie and Freddy had run aground because of insufficient regulation allowing the financial market to run amok. He stated intent to enact in 2009 the regulations that he feels would have prevented the collapse[citation needed], he had opposed moving oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from OFHEO to the Treasury Department in prior years.

Conflict of Interest

Frank has collected tens of thousands of dollars from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in campaign contributions—$42,350 since 1989. Also, Frank's former boyfriend, Herb Moses, was an executive at Fannie Mae from 1991 to 1998, where he helped develop many of Fannie Mae’s affordable housing and home improvement lending programs. The relationship ended around the same time Moses left the company, though Frank continued support of Fannie and Freddy.[15] Fox News reported that Frank pushed for reduced restriction on two- and three-family home mortgages in 1991, the year Moses was hired by Fannie, even though they were defaulting at two to five times the rate of single-family home defaults.

---

So Barney Frank was plying "Hide the weenie" while the USA economy was burning down.

Wanna bet he is re-elected in 3 weeks?

Chris Dodd (from my state) was a full partner in it - Dodd claims he didn't know that he got a "Sweetheart deal" on a mortgage - but executives at the mortgage company say different - they say they sat Dodd down and went through the sweetheart deal, because they wanted him to KNOW what a good deal he got so they could get cooperation.

That amounts to be a "gift" from a company, which is not only not allowed by law, but must be reported to the senate and reported on his income taxes.

Wanna bet he is re-elected in 2010?

They are all scum - it is time for the people to take back the country from this truck load of scumbags.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, October 12, 2008, at 17:05:46 (ZULU)

Pablo: "Wanna bet he is re-elected in 3 weeks?.."

I'd imagine he will be... How the heck did he get elected all the times in the past...??? are the folks of Mass. that screwed up in the head?

Also - why is Obama not getting hammered over his 2nd Ammend. voting record??

take care all,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Sunday, October 12, 2008, at 18:49:31 (ZULU)

My, how times have changed! When I run out of reading material,I read back issues of magazines. Right now, I'm reading NRA magazines from 2001. Back then, they were assuring us that McCain was the antichrist; I just got an e-mail from the same folks informing me that they're endorsing him for president!

I'm hoping his memory's a hell of a lot shorter than I know i is. Seven years ago, we were ready to run him out on a rail; now, we're latching onto his wrinkled old ass with both hands and puckering up!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, October 12, 2008, at 19:27:31 (ZULU)

Travis...

>"My, how times have changed! When I run out of reading material,I read back issues of magazines. Right now, I'm reading NRA magazines from 2001. Back then, they were assuring us that McCain was the antichrist; I just got an e-mail from the same folks informing me that they're endorsing him for president!

It's because who else are they gonna recommend? Bob Barr? He probably won't be on half of the state ballots, and if he is, this election is way too serious to "waste a vote"... and I hate say that, cuz I believe in protest votes, but it's just far too serious this time to make a protest vote.

I'm gonna get drunk before I go to the polls - it's just too sucky to vote for anyone this time!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, October 12, 2008, at 19:43:18 (ZULU)

All,

I foresaw a "financial correction" back in 06. The meltdown came much later and is much deeper than anticipated, but the correction has definitely occurred. And, I expect it's going to get a lot worse before it hits bottom. Not based on any kind of analysis, just paying attention to the news and my gut. Can't depend on forage to stock the table 'cause I live in the middle of shrub steppe country. Oh well, we'll manage.

JayDee

Jack D. (JD) Martin
So. Central, WA, US of A - Monday, October 13, 2008, at 10:42:08 (ZULU)

Martini Country....I recently came into two Martini Cadets, one rifle and one action; a BSA and a Greener. Anyone here ever built a varmint rifle on one?????????? A 218 bee may be in the works as the rim matches the exractors..Ideas on who could stock this project without breaking the bank??

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Monday, October 13, 2008, at 14:00:18 (ZULU)

JR: By all means, bargain hunt away...but I'd give you this bit of advice: Be prepared to sell into the rally with gains, and step over to inflation hedge positions. It changes daily---but right now I'd eye 11,200 on the big board, and gold under 800 for my move the f@ck out of the sh!tstorm.

Let's review: Foriegn credit sources have dried up. The fundementals are not so sound, since we live and have lived beyond our means. Once that happened, all the idiots that thought the US had de-linked from their new economies took one in the backside, eh? The global economy turns out to be us after all, if you wanna look at it that way. But that is just starters: Ignore all the promised dollars that are out there already; just look at what we are dumping on the world right now with these daily bail outs. Money for nuthin'...too many extra dollars chasing the same amount of goods is baaaaaaad for the guy with the dollar (not so bad for the guy with the goods)---and, we have a global slowdown on goods on going right now---less stuff for all those dollars to buy up. Think auction; also think very slow motion. There's tripping points that could accelerate this, but inflation is now a fact---the only thing is, who will be the first to take a hedge position and start the ball rolling?

I'd be wary if I were you...ride it up, sure---but be smart about it and don't be stuck in equities when everyone else bails to commodities. You should plan on missing out on the last few hundred points of the rise (bargain hunters such as yourself are doing this bullish trend).

As the emporer says (before Darth chucks him into the abyss): "Everything is unfolding as I have foreseen..." You have no idea how much this scares me.

Joe M
Monday, October 13, 2008, at 15:01:24 (ZULU)

Markwell...

I have had two, and the .218 Bee is an excellent choice.

I don't know who can stock them, but I would start on Google.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 13, 2008, at 15:36:01 (ZULU)

HA! Double HA!!

Its a 'rare' opportunity to hear a liberal socialist admit to what he's really thinking.

---

Barack Obama told a tax-burdened plumber over the weekend that his economic philosophy is to "spread the wealth around" -- a comment that may only draw fire from riled-up John McCain supporters who have taken to calling Obama a "socialist" at the Republican's rallies.

"It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too," Obama responded. "My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." -- Barack Hussein Obama

(click)

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Monday, October 13, 2008, at 22:34:08 (ZULU)

Joe,

You over-read my post. I said I'd be keeping an eye on good deals on rifles, which will come. I'm not too concerned about investing in the dow at the moment, too tricky to speculate when govt gets involved, probably be waiting until after the election to see where the wind is blowing there, so cash is king here at the moment. I'll be investing in firearms parts and machinery to build parts.

JR
Brevard County, Florida, USA - Tuesday, October 14, 2008, at 01:37:40 (ZULU)

I have also been very happy about my purchases from the ODCMP. I just got two Garands, a Mossberg M44, and a M1 Carbine. Cool rifles at a fair deal. My first M1 Carbine was $175 20 years ago, so paying $495 was a little tough to do, but I am worried that these might get all melted down if the election goes the wrong way...I remember buying complete M14 TRW trigger asembly units and bolts for $35!

Michael
Los Gatos, CA, USA - Tuesday, October 14, 2008, at 05:42:35 (ZULU)

MK4: Didn't Obama's radical hippie-chick mommy ever read him "The Little Red Hen"?

No, probably not.

(Click)

CDC'
Tuesday, October 14, 2008, at 13:53:10 (ZULU)

Definition of political correctness:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

Darren
Bay Area, CA, USA - Tuesday, October 14, 2008, at 16:10:34 (ZULU)

Man, we're getting a buttload of rain this year! As of today, Kansas should be well past the previous record for rainfall. Not including the deluge last night, which hasn't stopped yet, we were 1.6 inches short of the record, but we've received enough in the last 24 hours that my front lawn is a swamp.

The following was forwarded to me, and seems good enough to share. Enjoy.

Old Man

As I came out of the supermarket that sunny day, pushing my cart of groceries towards my car, I saw an old man with the hood of his car up and a lady sitting inside the car, with the door open.

The old man was looking at the engine. I put my groceries away in my car and continued to watch the old gentleman from about twenty five feet away.

I saw a young man in his early twenties with a grocery bag in his arm, walking towards the old man. The old gentleman saw him coming too and took a few steps towards him. I saw the old gentleman point to his open hood and say something.

The young man put his grocery bag into what looked like a brand new Cadillac Escalade and then turn back to the old man and I heard him yell at the old gentleman saying, 'You shouldn't even be allowed to drive a car at your age.' And then with a wave of his hand, he got in his car and peeled rubber out of the parking lot.

I saw the old gentleman pull out his handkerchief and mop his brow as he went back to his car and again looked at the engine. He then went to his wife and spoke with her and appeared to tell her it would be okay.

I had seen enough and I approached the old man. He saw me coming and stood straight and as I got near him I said, 'Looks like you're having a problem.'

He smiled sheepishly and quietly nodded his head. I looked under the hood myself and knew that whatever the problem was, it was beyond me.

Looking around I saw a gas station up the road and told the old man that I would be right back. I drove to the station and went inside and saw three attendants working on cars. I approached one of them and related the problem the old man had with his car and offered to pay them if they could follow me back down and help him.

The old man had pushed the heavy car under the shade of a tree and appeared to be comforting his wife. When he saw us he straightened up and thanked me for my help. As the mechanics diagnosed the problem (overheated engine) I spoke with the old gentleman.

When I shook hands with him earlier he had noticed my Marine Corps ring and had commented about it, telling me that he had been a Marine too. I nodded and asked the usual question, 'What outfit did you serve with?'

He had mentioned that he served with the first Marine Division at Tarawa, Saipan, Iwo Jima and Guadalcanal . He had hit all the big ones and retired from the Corps after the war was over.

As we talked we heard the car engine come on and saw the mechanics lower the hood. They came over to us as the old man reached for his wallet, but was stopped by me and I told him I would just put the bill on my AAA card.

He still reached for the wallet and handed me a card that I assumed had his name and address on it and I stuck it in my pocket. We all shook hands all around again and I said my goodbye's to his wife.

I then told the two mechanics that I would follow them back up to the station. Once at the station I told them that they had interrupted their own jobs to come along with me and help the old man. I said I wanted to pay for the help, but they refused to charge me.

One of them pulled out a card from his pocket looking exactly like the card the old man had given to me. Both of the men told me then, that they were Marine Corps Reserves. Once again we shook hands all around and as I was leaving, one of them told me I should look at the card the old man had given to me. I said I would and drove off.

For some reason I had gone about two blocks when I pulled over and took the card out of my pocket and looked at it for a long, long, time. The name of the old gentleman was on the card in golden leaf and under his name........'Congressional Medal of Honor Society.'

I sat there motionless looking at the card and reading it over and over. I looked up from the card and smiled to no one but myself and marveled that on this day, four Marines had all come together, because one of us needed help. He was an old man all right, but it felt good to have stood next to greatness and courage and an honor to have been in his presence.

America is not at war. The U.S Military is at war. America is at the Mall.

If you don't stand behind our troops, PLEASE feel free to stand in front of them!

Vote smart or don't bother. If you're just watching the news to get your knowledge, you're not informed enough to vote.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, October 14, 2008, at 16:33:50 (ZULU)

lack of understanding country -

I bought a mil-spec 5r remmy awhile back. As advertised, the 11.25" twist favors the 175gr bullets(.5"), no big surprise there. It likes 168's a little less(.75") and with 150's I'm right around an inch. I saw some cheapo 110gr loads for $20 a box at cabelas, the box says 110 gr sierra HP. Looks like reloaded lake city brass. I thought it would be cool that a much lighter bullet would reduce felt recoil(it did big time) for having my 308 serve some varmint duty. I figured with my twist rate, accuracy would be the main issue. "Problem" is...I am on my second box and shooting into the .4's, on a calm day I've had several 3 shot groups in the .3's! WHy does it like these super light for caliber bullets so much?

john bechtell
AZ, - Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 03:09:17 (ZULU)

John:

"excessive" twist is not a big problem with a good barrel and good bullets. Insufficient twist is almost always a problem...

Rod Regier
still in sunny Orlando,FL, - Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 04:45:36 (ZULU)

Reloading country.....

I picked up a lot of 500 rounds of M80 ball ammo last year. I'm finally getting around to turning it into mexican match ammo. Am I going to need to reduce the powder charge on this ammo when I seat a 168 grain BTHPM boolet vs. the factory 148 grain? From what I have found, it appears these should be loaded with 41.5 grains of ball powder along the lines of WC844.

I'm also going to play with some different powders for my pistol and AR rifles. I've got 1000 Ranier 200 grain plated HPs for the 45, and 2000 .22 55 grain FMJBT to load. Based on a couple days of internet surfing, I'm going to try Alliant Power Pistol with the 45 and BLC2 with the 55 grainers to duplicate M193. Also have 100 77 grain Nosler competition BTHP to work up a load with Varget for my 16" stainless match AR.

Anyone have suggestions for recipes using the above? I tend to use Win standard primers and have had good luck with them.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 07:35:25 (ZULU)

Geoff:

If you are switching to a heavier projectile then you normally have to reduce the charge weight when making Mexican match. If it is mil-spec ammo as the starting point then seating the original projectiles a little deeper first to crack the asphalt sealant will simplify pulling the projectile.

If you were to substitute (say) a Sierra 150g HPBTM projectile (or similar) instead of a 168g you might not have to adjust the charge weight. Just a thought...

Rod Regier
vacationing in Orlando,FL, - Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 12:22:21 (ZULU)

A lapua 155 gr scenar may work well for mex-match and outperform the 168 gr sierra.. Assuming you really want a "match" grade bullet

medicjim
Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 13:29:04 (ZULU)

Reloading Country;

Gentlemen,

I wonder if y`all could give me some insight into current reloading equipt. My cousin is getting into it and wants to know which is a good brand to buy (or should he mix and match?). I have a single stage RCBS and a Dillon RL550, both bought many years ago, so I have no idea about what is good on the market now. I`m a pretty big fan of Dillon but haven`t bought anything for quite a while .He`s as green as grass so I`m steering him to a single stage set up to start. Thanks for the help.

Steve Racer
PA, - Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 18:03:49 (ZULU)

Steve Racer: Redding is my first choice. Forster is real good too. Lee is my last choice. Lyman is second to last. I have thrown Lyman stuff in the trash.

CDC'
Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 19:06:07 (ZULU)

Going to do the same thing (tear down, reload) a bunch of 308 South African. Just gonna pull the boolits, dump the powder after getting average weights, resize the brass, tumble it clean, re-charge the brass and re-seat the boolits. 2 out of 10 of the dang things would not chamber in my LAR. Just trying to keep it simple for gas gun blasting ammo.

Boltster out!

Bolt
NC, - Thursday, October 16, 2008, at 00:12:47 (ZULU)

Looks like McCain is doing well. But I despise that commie fella, so I may be a tad biased. I think I'm seeing a few points shifting here tonight though...

"ah, eh, uhhhh..." Barry's missin' his teleprompter...heheh.

Joe M
Thursday, October 16, 2008, at 02:53:49 (ZULU)

Steve Racer: eBay sells used reloading gear cheap-cheap. The Redding powder measure and powder trickler work much better than anything else I have used. The Forster trimmer works great.

CDC'
Thursday, October 16, 2008, at 13:56:25 (ZULU)

Geoff...

For Mexican Match, you replace the military bullet with a match bullet OF THE SAME WEIGHT.

You cannot put in a 168 SMK without removing all the powder and replacing it with a different amount - which defeats the purpose of Mexican Match.

Use the Sierra 150 SMK.

The 155 Scenar is within weight limits (kinda sorta), but because of it's extreme length, you can not just replace it - you must work up new loading data.

Use the 150 SMK!

I didn't watch the "debates" last night - McCain couldn't talk his way out of a paper bag with the help of a switchblade knife.

But I did watch some of the analysis this morning where most everyone said Obama won the debate... "on style"

It's odd because when the pollsters ask who won the debate, they NEVER ask "did either side change your mind".

They just ask (in effect) who was the best speaker.

It is easy to say Bill Clinton was the best speaker in a debate, he was probably one of the best political speakers in history (but said nothing!!!)... but none of these guys ask about the substance or if what they said was credible.

Also, noted, was the mental level of the audience - I mean, "My fucking God", are these people stupid or what??

"Well, Obama said he will give us free medical care and everyone needs medical care, right?"

"Obama seems to care about people more than McCain does."

These people will decide the future of our country, while they are holding out one hand for as many freebees that they can get.

Campers, as a country, we have completely lost our way.

Elections are now for sale to the highest bidder (which politician will give you the most money back for your vote.

It is against the law for you to "buy" someone's vote for $50, but it is NOT against the law for a politician to buy millions of votes with your tax money.

A Scottish philosopher named Smith (I think - CDC will know, he knows everything), said that once a government has the ability to tax you and then give you back money, you have lost the democracy - he was a friggin visionary!

I am now convinced that being able to vote should be HARD TO DO, not easier.

You should have to walk two miles in the rain and stand in line outside for an hour, at 2 AM in the morning.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, October 16, 2008, at 15:23:47 (ZULU)

Pablo: Your Adam(?) Smith quote beats me, but - after observing our masters' performances over the last month - this one seems appropriate:

"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office."___Ambrose Bierce

CDC'
Thursday, October 16, 2008, at 16:21:15 (ZULU)

Thanks 'Lito.

Pulled this off the net. I thought it was a De Toqueville quote. I'll have to open up my copy of "Democracy in America".

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.

Who penned the above words? If one were to put one's faith in the reliability of the internet, the obvious answer would be Alexander Tytler. Or Alexander Tyler. Or Arnold Toynbee. Or Lord Thomas Macaulay. Or...

The truth is that despite their frequent use, the author(s) of the above quotes are unknown. With regard to the first quoted paragraph, the Library of Congress' Respectfully Quoted writes, "Attributed to ALEXANDER FRASER TYTLER, LORD WOODHOUSELEE. Unverified." The quote, however, appears in no published work of Tytler's. And with regard to the second, the same book says "Author unknown. Attributed to Benjamin Disraeli. Unverified."

Bolt, how are you going to figure out what is a safe charge for the pulled down powder?

Geoff M
WI, USA - Thursday, October 16, 2008, at 20:41:59 (ZULU)

Geoff...

That's the one - I thought it was Adam Smith, but I guess it isn't - "never were more true words...."

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, October 16, 2008, at 22:05:20 (ZULU)

Agreed. The question is, does any of us who really care about preserving the Republic, and the blessings it has been given, have the ability to prevent what history teaches us is inevitable? Or are our attempts to fight it simply a delaying action at best, that will never avoid the "inevitable" result?

I would add, that the "inevitable result" this time might be much worse for the human race, given the existance of nuclear weapons.

Essentially, history teaches that a miracle would be necessary to preserve the Republic and achieve freedom for everyone in this world. Given what human nature is like, I would have to say I'm throwing in with history on this one. It would appear that the two most important things we can do individually and as a society would be to either eliminate nukes or render them ineffective through technology (ABM) and teaching self reliance and heavy duty individual preparation. Both with the goal of ultimately preserving the human race in a worst case scenario.

I could be talking out of my ass here. But which of us is willing to stick their neck out and claim that the human race will behave differently this time around? Not I. Too much evidence to the contrary already.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Thursday, October 16, 2008, at 23:21:46 (ZULU)

Geoff M,

I`ve had that quote posted above my tool box at work for quite some time. I have an arrow pointing to the line "from apathy to dependence" and the remark, 'You are here. Lock and load' written next to it.

I get a lot of readers but few comment. They just walk away. What do you suppose that means?

Steve Racer
PA, - Friday, October 17, 2008, at 02:04:57 (ZULU)

'Til I got to the 2nd paragraph fo the quote, I was thinking Robert Heinlein.

WR Moore
Friday, October 17, 2008, at 03:41:38 (ZULU)

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

-- Albert Einstein

Rod Regier
still in Orlando,FL, - Friday, October 17, 2008, at 04:23:13 (ZULU)

'lito,

"These people will decide the future of our country, while they are holding out one hand for as many freebees that they can get."

Pretty damned scary, isn't it?

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Friday, October 17, 2008, at 06:38:12 (ZULU)

The market's Obama/McCain odds are pretty close to 5.5/1. (Click) A betting man may want to consider putting a few extra $$$ down. Don't get crazy with it.

CDC'
Friday, October 17, 2008, at 07:55:55 (ZULU)

I've never been one to see doom on the horizon, but I gotta say - all the signs are there.

The current debt is now $10,000,000,000,000 - that's $100,000 PER HOUSEHOLD!!!

At 6 percent, that's $6,000 per year in interest for every household, and that doesn't even touch the principle.

No nation can carry debt like this for long - and we are getting in deeper and deeper every year.

And Obama is about to add another trillion a year in govt programs.

No country can survive this kind of spending, while manufacturing and jobs are leaving like lemmings off of a cliff.

I am convinced that the chances of something really bad happening to our government is now in the foreseeable future.

Where the hell is McCain - my 16 yo son has the smarts to know this kind of spending can't go on for long with it all collapsing.

I do NOT believe that Obama is misguided or uninformed - I think he sees socialism as the only way for his social grievances to be adjusted.

Unfortunately, I think it will lead to a race war in the end.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, October 17, 2008, at 12:08:29 (ZULU)

Lito: In the end? That would mark the beginning. As for Obama, he has stated that his plans may have to wait, as the economy may not support them right away. If he knows this, and has said this, he conversely knows that his policies will be poisonous to any economy. Why then is he holding fast to his socialistic ideals? Then, I watch politicians from GWB down to house repubs talk about this crisis, and no one mentiones CRA's major role--and the main players that protected this. It is as if the guys in the heart of all this FM/FM push into subprime (Dodd, Frank, TK, and Obama himself) have "something on everyone else"---it makes no sense whatsoever that this is just ignored. Maybe they're all holding back in some grand schee to unleash the truth 5 days from the election--giving these ass hats no time to mount any deflections??? But for now, it just strikes me as conspiracy and collusion.

An Obama presidency would be a disaster. In some ways. I would prefer he gets the blame for everything coming. I doubt McCain will take the appropriate actions to stave off a complete implosion (but he would try, I suppose)--so, if it is coming down anyway---may as well put socialism front and center when it does. IMHO, this will kill off the political left in a nuclear fashion.

Geoff is right about the cycle of a free people. The dictatorial salvation result is a very real threat--but we may have pushed past the point of such salvation already. This coming undone of things may start in the streets rather than the capitol. If that is the case---there are many, many possible outcomes in the end, one of which is a restoration of the republic. Think of social upheaval as a cleansing of the electorate. Who might be left standing in the aftermath of a breakdown in social order? If a Socialist government is seen widely to be at blame for this, who will the irrational mobs target? In the end, and because the mechanism could shift from the seat of power to those who consented to such power---the usual outcome might be invalid. No dictatorship.

There are reasons that hostile take-overs of government result in dictators: Simply by doing this, one has broken the law of the previous order. To have the gumption to undertake such a hostile act--one has to believe it is needed and necessary for whatever reason (even personal hubris and cult of personality has other rationalizations that attract followers). Once done, the best way to ensure it stays done is to spill blood. "All-in" for the effort--no going back now. The ruskies who tried this justbefore the fall did not off Gorbie--and the allure of having the choice to "go back" was their downfall. So, if a coup was to occur within the central power, it would either fail or become so bloody as to ensure dictatorship. If you seize power thru these means, to relinquish it is to face the music. Dictatorship, therefore, can be boiled down to an outgrowth of a healthy sense of pure survival instincts.

So, history shiows us a series of "top down" societal failures. There are very few "bottom up" examples to study...mainly, because we call these revolutions.

I see an Obama presidency as the catalyst, and it is economic rather than racial. Race easily could be a small component, but it would quickly fall off the radar screen as the initial suffering will be truly colorblind.

The economic experts who say we have never seen this before; that this crisis is unique--they are wrong. We have seen exactly this crisis and exactly this response, but nobody "wants to see this"---one country in particular tried to print its way out of a credit crunch, and started this in the late 20's. This example ended in a bunker in April some 16 years later...

The markets are in a state of denial--the old paradigm is still strong in the headsof all those go-go 80s finance students. Oil is falling, and the news is intitiallythought to be "great!" Every last one of us is watchingthe gas prices fall, and we all think "about damned time." we might even take comfort that things could get back tonormal. Normal? WTF is that? To us, it is only what we know from our lifespan. But is what we experienced these last 25 years normal, or just a period of loose credit that was extended beyond all reason? Oil's fall is not a sign of the dollar's strength (as it was in the 90s)---it is a reflection of a lack of activity world-wide. The herd on wall street take things like falling enrgy costs at face value---it is all they know from the bull markets that define their entire experience. These are your experts....follow their lead at your own peril. There is an uglier reason for the fall in this commodity...

This is absolutely the worst time ever to try socialism. We appear to be headlong for this any damned way. If the collapse of the economy is foregone, may as well have the left as our bogeyman. Someoen has to play scapegoat--and I'd be hard pressed to find a better group for this:))

Joe M
Friday, October 17, 2008, at 14:45:00 (ZULU)

Joe M: If, say, Rand Corp put their top quant jocks to work modeling our economic and political future, anything past the second or third dependent step would be unknowable. FDR was responsible for deepening and prolonging the depression. Hoover bears the blame to this day. Extreme leftist nitwits will probably take over the whole circus and they will f***k it up beyond belief. After that, my crystal ball gets cloudy.

I have no confidence that the Democrats will be blamed for those results or that our constitutional proceedures will be preserved in a form that will allow us to use them as effective tools.

I'm going to do what I can, try to cover the downside and hope for the best.

CDC'
Friday, October 17, 2008, at 17:13:27 (ZULU)

CDC Sir,

I think if you dig deep enough you will find that the federal reserve engineered the crash of 29 under a weak president. The duration of the depression was 'controlled' by FDR ( and his controllers) so socialist/communist policies could be implemented and have time to establish themselves in the American psyche.. Sound familiar ?

Stay safe

Calvin

PS If anyone is interested in what can be done about the current state of financial affairs other than getting one's own house in order.. here's a start.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin82.htm

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Friday, October 17, 2008, at 18:38:12 (ZULU)

(Long read...)

I heard this on Glenn Beck 10/15/08.

It was so great, I fount the transcript on:

www.Glennbeck.com/content/radio

Glenn:

What are the odds? What are the odds that in North Kansas City a couple would get a -- would get their credit card bill back... and they would find -- they are McCain supporters, and they would find on their credit card bill a $2300 donation to Barack Obama's presidential campaign? What could this guy -- you know what? I have to tell you something. I've had a "Come to Jesus" moment on Barack Obama and there's two ways to really look at this. There's this guy is surrounded by some of the most evil people you could possibly imagine. The signs are everywhere. I mean, it's one thing after another after another after another, and you could start to say, "Wait a minute, I'm not buying any of these excuses," or, or you could say, "Well, he's just the most unlucky guy ever."

Now, I used to be at the "I don't think I buy any of these excuses." But you know what? After seeing that last credit card thing with the ACORN and you're like, "Okay, now somebody is stealing credit cards and making donations to the Obama campaign." You could say, you know what, everybody who's nefarious seems to be involved in helping this guy get elected. But that's just -- you know what it is. Luck. Because hard work, you don't -- look. The one thing I've learned is you don't really control your own destiny. People are going to do everything they can to keep you down. You don't trust -- you don't -- you won't be able to make it and that's what's happening to Barack. He's just trying to make it. He's just trying -- and think of the odds that he is overcoming. Think of the horrible -- look, you think you had it bad? You have no idea what life is like if you're Barack Obama.

I know he's ahead in the polls and everything and I know he's probably going to do an unbelievable job at winning this November, but it's way closer than it should be. Why is that? Policies? No. He's hopeful, he's changish?

Bad luck.

Think of this. I was just noodling this before I went on the air. Think of these things. Out of all of the women in America that he could marry, hundreds of millions of women that Barack Obama -- he's a good looking guy. He's fit, he's trim, he's smart, he's successfulish. He's -- you know, he's got a bright future, unless you know about his luck thing. Out of all the women that he could marry, the possible next President of the United States, he finds the one woman who's not proud of her country and wants to change its history? The one he happens to luck into. What are the odds? I mean, it's not like they were related at all on those things. It's just, he falls in love with her and he's like, oh, my gosh! And he probably didn't even know it until she said it on the campaign trail. It was like, oh, my -- I didn't know that. And then, you know, because this is the way all women are, (mumbling). And he's like, okay. And the new couple, you know, they're still happy; he doesn't know she's unhappy with the country. Well, they pick out a new church and they go there for 20 years. Everything seems great, except now they find out after he starts running for President that the pastor, a guy they considered, quote, family hates America. What? What are the odds? His wife doesn't like America. She's not -- she's never been proud of the country. Completely unrelated, a complete coincidence, the pastor hates America. Poor Barack Obama. I mean, maybe Reverend Wright and Michelle have something in common. Maybe they have been sitting around talking about it but she knew. But Barack, "Jeez, now we've got two family members that hate America." What are the odds? And not just people that hate America, but this pastor who was "Family," thinks America is a racist country where all the white people in the government are trying to kill all the black people in the country with AIDS. They invented AIDS. Now you not only have somebody who hates America but you have somebody who's crazy in your family and you didn't know it for 20 years. And by the way, if that were true, if the government were trying to kill all black people in America, black people, you should be very, very safe because it's a government-run program. I mean, you are going to die of natural causes way before the government could actually get around to actually killing you.

But then Barack Obama's luck gets even worse. I mean, that's, that's bad enough luck. At this point I'm thinking, come on, that's not a coincidence. I mean, he's attracting these things to him. No, no. Can't you see? You're not in control of your own destiny. You're destined to be a victim and a victim -- there's nobody who knows victims like Barack Obama.

Think of this. Okay, he's in that church for 20 years. Apparently the pastor would only say crazy hateful things about America not around the dinner table, not around his house and never, ever say things like U.S. KKK of A or, you know, G-damn America or anything like that. Only the times that Barack and Michelle were in attendance did he say things like that and apparently all of the friends that would have been shocked by something like that, they didn't attend that weekend, either, because nobody ever said, "My gosh, you should have heard what the pastor said this weekend; it was completely out of character." Nobody said anything. He didn't know. What are the odds? It's crazy. And that pattern went on for 20 years. That's how bad of luck Barack Obama has, 20 years. Every single time the guy doesn't show up for church, it's nonstop the government creates the AIDS virus. Unbelievable. What are the odds? How was he supposed to know that the pastor was a nut job? For two decades the Obamas missed every racist hateful comment toward America and so did all of their friends. The rest of the time, every time they were there, you know, he was talking about actual Bible stuff. The odds are unbelievable. And that's just the beginning.

Then Barack is like, "Hey, I want to be a state senator. Where should I have it? I mean, I could launch it from a park, you know, I could go to like a cool podium some place, maybe I can go to Pizza Hut. Where could I possibly -- and somebody says, hey, I know, you can go do it at my house. And he's like, really? Now, you would think to yourself, well, that's lucky. And I'm sure that's what Barack Obama was thinking, "I don't know if I have a place to do it, I don't know if I can get a park and a podium, I don't know if I can get into Pizza Hut and we'll have room for all the cameras. And this guy seems to have a big house. I mean, I don't know him, we live in the same neighborhood but we don't really talk." Okay, so he launches at his house, and it's this beautiful house. Turns out -- ready for this one? Turns out the guy is a home grown terrorist. I mean, who knew? I mean, besides everybody because the guy wasn't hiding it and it was in the New York Times, but who knew? I mean, Ayers had blown up buildings, even the Pentagon, which is wild because somebody else just blew up the Pentagon and you'd think that that would come up in conversation, you know, like when you're meeting him. "Hey, by the way, you're launching your campaign over at the William Ayers house. You do know that he's the guy who blew up the Pent..." that's how unlucky Barack Obama is. He didn't know. I mean, what are the odds? You've really got to feel for Barack Obama at some point. This guy just can't catch a break. He's just trying to do the right thing. He's just trying to organize his community. That's it. It's completely -- you know, the As aren't where the As are supposed to be and the Fs are over in the G slot and he's like, I've got to reorganize this whole community now. I'm busy. Can somebody throw me a bone and tell me who's a terrorist and who's not a terrorist? I mean, what are there? Only a couple of hundred domestic terrorists in America, maybe? I mean, I think I'm being pretty generous. Maybe a couple of hundred people? 300 million people in the country and you're like, "Oh, crap, I'm sitting with a domestic terrorist at his house launching my campaign?" It's incredible. This guy is Charlie Brown. You've got to feel sorry for him. He's a victim!

And you, you can relate to him because you're a victim, too. You'll never be able to make it. You need somebody to help you. And because he understands victims, he can help you. I just, you know, I just refrained this in my head and realized what are the odds? My gosh. But our story is just starting. It gets worse. It turns out Barack was on a board of community organization. He was the star. He was the man. He was the guy. They hand-picked him: "You need to run this." He could have picked any board. Any board could have picked him. Out of all the hundreds and thousands of boards, he happens to be sitting on the same one as the domestic terrorist! I mean, is that rough luck or what? You're like, "Oh, crap. The one that picks me is that one?" And then, and then he serves on another board with Ayers. I mean, he couldn't get more unlucky. Is he cursed? I have to -- I'm worried that maybe he's cursed. Does somebody have a voodoo doll against him?

Now, I don't want this all to be doom and gloom. I want you to know that they have hit some lucky patches, thank goodness. Otherwise, I mean, how could they, how could they go on just victims of all of these ill-timed events and chance meetings and friends that turn out to be practical enemies of the state or former prisoners? My goodness. Well, it's not all bad news. I mean, according to Barack and Michelle, they did have one stroke of luck. They got rich. You won't, you know, because you -- well, when they get in, well, they will help you get rich. But they just happened to stumble into it. It had nothing to do with hard work or anything. In fact, Michelle Obama put it, "It was like Jack and his magic beans." Man, I guess you have to be really unlucky for a very long time to get Jack and his magic beans to make you a millionaire.

So at least now they could put food on the table several million times, you know, although in a way that was bad luck because it hurt the medicine that you need the federal government to make it. "Wait, wait, wait, we were only lucky." Turns out federal government, you know, they weren't the ones that helped the Obamas get rich. Amazing, I mean just think of the odds, the odds in the other way on how unlucky they've been. They are the one couple who has been able to make it without the government. So now they had some money. Luck. Victims? Lucky victims, very unlucky but sometimes lucky victims.

So they decided to buy a new house because they have got money now and they are like, hey, let's buy a new house. That's the American dream. And his wife is like, no, no, that's the American promise. So they went out, they looked and they're like, we can't afford these houses, even for us millionaires, they can't afford these houses. But they got a lucky deal. They got an amazing deal. The seller decided to split their lot into two lots. This almost never happens. They're like, "We want to buy this but we can't afford it and they are like, hmmm, what could we do? You know what, I like you guys so much, why don't I split this lot into two. I wonder if there's anybody that wants to -- oh, my gosh, there's a buyer, and a buyer for the other half of the lot just showed up. It was incredible. Again what are the odds? So the Obamas bought one half and somebody else -- I don't know who it was -- bought the other. I mean, has anything ever like -- has anything happened like that with you? I never even heard -- again, very, very unlucky lucky victims. Because you know victimization is right around the corner. Right, as soon as they start feeling lucky, victimization sets in.

So it was so exciting because not only did they get the home for $300,000 under market value, and this is in 2005 when home prices were going through the roof. They got -- the person was like, I like you guys so much, I'm going to sell it to you for $300,000 less, and somebody else who we don't know yet is going to buy the other part of this lot. And on the same day that they closed on their new property, the buyer who bought the other side was closing on theirs. It was so exciting, and their new neighbor was nice. They got to know him. It was Tony Rezco. And out of the kindness of his heart, he paid the full price for the empty lot that had been sitting there for months, which made it possible for the Obamas to get a $300,000 savings. So lucky, those victims.

And then because Rezco is such a great guy, he was like, you know what, I don't want to live there. Why don't I sell my strip of land so you can have a bigger yard and no one would buy the lot that, you know, he was -- that Rezco paid for, nobody would buy it anyway. So he was like, "I'm not going to live there and there's nobody willing to buy it. Why don't you guys buy it." It's incredible. And what luck because Tony Rezco's a political fundraiser, you know? Now, here's the victimhood again. Little did they know, who would have seen this one coming. This political fundraiser who bought the land that he never lived on gave them this sweetheart deal. Apparently unbeknownst to the Obamas, he was into sweetheart deals with politicians, and just this year he was convicted of several counts of fraud and bribery and -- but that's not the Tony Rezco that Obama knew. He just knew the nice neighbor guy who bought the strip of land so he could buy a house. That's it. It was a really -- I mean, he's admitted that, boy, that was a stupid thing for me to do. I don't even know what I was doing there. So I mean, he's learned his lesson, you know? Nice guy, helps you buy and save hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know, turns out to be a bribe attempt or at least, you know, not this case but other cases like that. Not this one, but other ones. What are the odds? It's just horrible.

And as if his luck couldn't even get worse, the champion of the people, you know, the champion of the community organizers. "Wait, wait, wait, N doesn't belong there. That's where the O goes." And he's just trying to organize communities. Here he is, the champion, the Messiah of the people in an attempt just to help the community... organize, he decides to donate some of his campaign money to a group who's also out. They're just getting everybody... organized. But out of all of the groups, out of all of them, out of the gazillions of groups that are out there getting communities... organized, out of the phone books and phone books of every city in America you can page through, what's the one he stops on? My goodness, Charlie Brown, he finds the one that's committing voter fraud in every single swing state. What are the odds! And to make things worse, there are employees who are supposed to be nonpartisan wearing ACORN For Obama shirts, which doesn't look good... but once again you'll never get ahead because the system is stacked against ya and you want to talk about the number one victim in America. It is Barack Obama.

Oh, by the way, just have to throw this in. His mentor -- I mean, here he has a dad who abandons him and he's like, hey, let's do some father and son things. And he comes upon this mentor, this guy name Frank. He writes about him in his book. He just hangs with him and he teaches him and everything. It's great. Turns out that Frank is Frank Marshall Davis, a communist, a well known communist back in the Sixties, and he hates capitalism. What horrible luck! What are the odds! Out of all the fatherless mentors he could find, he finds the communist!

I just have to tell you, he's the most unlucky luckiest victim I have ever seen, but I just fall to my knees and pray that when Barack is elected, his bad luck streak of friends and associations finally ends. He wins that presidency and he's the luck -- I feel... feel... feel like the luckiest man... man... man... alive. It would be great, wouldn't it? Keep your fingers crossed. I hope he doesn't have any unlucky days at the White House.

While I have your attention - doncha wish George Bush #43 had these balls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZjpCK02s3A&feature=bz303

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, October 17, 2008, at 19:37:08 (ZULU)

Quote Country:

Who was the author of "... there are tough guys sitting on the walls willing to do tough things to keep the rest of us safe..." something along those lines? Kipling?

I can't even convince intelligent (supposedly) folks that there are problems in business, let alone the country. I couldn't convince even a handful of managers at GM in the 80s that they were on a collision course with disaster.

Sometimes I hate being right.

"It's socially unacceptable to be right too soon." - Heinlein

Duman
Saturday, October 18, 2008, at 02:47:50 (ZULU)

Duman: Orwell said, "Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf."

Churchill probably made the statement that is commonly attributed to Orwell; "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Kipling said, "Yes, making mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep".

Here's the whole thing:

Tommy

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,

The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."

The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,

I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";

But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,

The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,

O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,

They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;

They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,

But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";

But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,

The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,

O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep

Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;

An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit

Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"

But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,

The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,

O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,

But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;

An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,

Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",

But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,

There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,

O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:

We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.

Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face

The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"

But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;

An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;

An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

CDC'
Saturday, October 18, 2008, at 03:28:31 (ZULU)

Duman -

"It's socially unacceptable to be right too soon".

It's also bad for your marriage, especially when it happens constantly. Just ask my first wife! :-P

Found this quote today, supposedly by Cicero. It doesn't sound like Cicero:

"The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced. If the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt, people must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. – Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 BC"

I've got 650 rounds of .45ACP loaded so far. Winchester brass (from the white box I fired in a couple classes, about 1100 rounds). Interestingly, out of the 650, I had about 4 units that the case split lengthwise from the case mouth right down to the web upon resizing.

My Lee Loadmaster is doing a nice job. WHen I first got it, it gave me all kinds of problems. I've since played with Dillons, and they are certainly the best. But now that I'm back using this Lee, I've learned a few things:

1. The plastic primer feed assembly MUST be taken apart and the casting flash carefully smoothed down with sandpaper so all parts move smoothly. then wash it and blow dry it throughly, or the oil will cause feed problems.

2. Sitting idle for a few years will let all the oil slopped on everything from the manufacturer evaporate and solve a LOT of problems. Alternatively, hose the whole unit and your shellplates down with a weak solvent and throughly dry it. Then sparingly lubricate the hinge points and the ram.

It would appear that most of my problems when I first tried to use this thing were due to overlubrication....which gave me unreliable primer feeding, stray powder flakes screwing up alignment of things, etc.

My next press will be a Dillon. But I'm glad this thing is running so well so far. I had two rounds out of 650 that the primers went in sideways, and the four rounds that the case split. Not too bad.

Where the hell is Wes???????????

Geoff M
WI, USA - Saturday, October 18, 2008, at 03:54:59 (ZULU)

Bolt,

Feel free to send me any excess sweet taters! My wife, the "microwave queen" would starve if she only had good food to eat! I'm pretty certain she's trying to "bland" me to death.

Obama:

Anytime someone rants about "spreading the weath around", it's a damned good bet they don't intend to spread any of their own. Am I the only one that caught his comment about medicaid, and how it's a zero return deal? Basically, hes saying, "Grandma, you're past your productive years, now you jst need to go out back an die." What a cocksucker!

Steve,

I've got my eye on the Hornady setup. I really like their new dies, PLUS, they come with 100 free bullets with each set, and 500 with the press. That'll take a lot of sting out of buying a new press you can't afford to feed!

'Lito,

I concur on the debate and the voters. I was just waiting for McCain to hand that little fucker his nuts, but it never came. It almost seemed that he took a dive.

The fucking idiot voters that they interview just astound me. It seems that we want the "most pleasant" candidate, regardless of what a useless, impotent fuck he is.

And WTF is with this "league of first time voters"? That's like having a bunch of kids that just busted their cherries(or are about to) tell the rest of us how great pussy is! WTF do we care what they have to say? They know SHIT abut the world! Hell, when I was that age, I thought NRA members and handloaders were extremists! Now, I can't thank them enough for covering for my ignorant ass. I thought the only guns you needed were for popping a deer or a coyote. Now, I understand the dangers, and try to impart that wisdom in enough detail so that young folks thoroughly understand how screwed we are.

'Lito,

Laughed my ass off at that vid. "Why don't you go wash your mouth out with a revolver?" LMFAO!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, October 18, 2008, at 06:48:17 (ZULU)

Reading these pages the last few days convinces me that this has to be the "headiest" website in the shooting world - you bumz are better read than most college professors and would run circles around 95% of the "elitist media"

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 18, 2008, at 11:41:43 (ZULU)

This may be an "Urban rumor", but I heard a few days ago, that one of the "Jobs programs" that Obama wants to start is some kind of security corps - like a federal anti-terrorist street patrol guard.

It sounds like the makings of a urban rumor, have any of you guys heard anything like this?

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 18, 2008, at 12:04:35 (ZULU)

Comments Made in the Year 1955!

That's only 53 years ago!

"I'll tell you one thing, if things keep going the way they are, it's going to be impossible to buy a week's groceries for $20.00."

"Have you seen the new cars coming out next year? It won't be long before $2,000.00 will only buy a used one."

"If cigarettes keep going up in price, I'm going to quit. A quarter a pack is ridiculous." (now $10 a pack in NYC)

"Did you hear the post office is thinking about charging a dime just to mail a letter?"

"If they raise the minimum wage to $1.00, nobody will be able to hire outside help at the store."

"When I first started driving, who would have thought gas would someday cost 29 cents a gallon. Guess we'd be better off leaving the car in the garage."

"Kids today are impossible. Those duck tail hair cuts make it impossible to stay groomed. Next thing you know, boys will be wearing their hair as long as the girls."

"I'm afraid to send my kids to the movies any more. Ever since they let Clark Gable get by with saying DAMN in GONE WITH THE WIND, it seems every new movie has either HELL of DAMN in it."

"I read the other day where some scientist thinks it's possible to put a man on the moon by the end of the century. They even have some fellows they call astronauts preparing for it down in Texas."

"Did you see where some baseball player just signed a contract for $75,000 a year just to play ball? It wouldn't surprise me if someday they'll be making more than the President."

"I never thought I'd see the day all our kitchen appliances would be electric. They are even making electric typewriters now."

"It's too bad things are so tough nowadays. I see where a few married women are having to work to make ends meet."

"It won't be long before young couples are going to have to hire someone to watch their kids so they can both work."

"Marriage doesn't mean a thing any more, those Hollywood stars seem to be getting divorced at the drop of a hat."

"I'm afraid the Volkswagen car is going to open the door to a whole lot of foreign business."

"Thank goodness I won't live to see the day when the Government takes half our income in taxes. I sometimes wonder if we are electing the best people to congress."

"The drive-in restaurant is convenient in nice weather, but I seriously doubt they will ever catch on."

"There is no sense going to Lincoln or Omaha anymore for the weekend, it costs nearly $15.00 a night to stay in a hotel."

"No one can afford to be sick anymore, at $35.00 a day in the hospital it's too rich for my blood."

"If they think I'll pay 50 cents for a hair cut, forget it."

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 18, 2008, at 12:59:35 (ZULU)

"This may be an "Urban rumor", but I heard a few days ago, that one of the "Jobs programs" that Obama wants to start is some kind of security corps - like a federal anti-terrorist street patrol guard.

It sounds like the makings of a urban rumor, have any of you guys heard anything like this?.."

Pablo: If it's true - then sounds like something to join - make sure it stays constitutional :)

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Saturday, October 18, 2008, at 13:49:28 (ZULU)

It sounds like the makings of a urban rumor, have any of you guys heard anything like this?.."

He will have to come up with a real catchy name.....Gestapo was used already.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Saturday, October 18, 2008, at 19:57:55 (ZULU)

YA'll talking bout this ?

http://freethemarketman.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/obamas-monstrous-itch/

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Saturday, October 18, 2008, at 22:35:32 (ZULU)

Calvin...

Sonovabitch - that's it!!!

No urban rumor.

Can you imagine all those inner city assholes in in uniforms and armed "...a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."?

If that don't scare the beJesus out of you - nothing will!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 04:32:50 (ZULU)

Today, in a speech, Our Savior promised to change the world.

In this vid (click) Obama blames white people for a starving world. Notice the harshness and anger in his voice. He has promised around $90 billion/year in increased American taxes that will be spent on feeding the world. Young Mr. Obama, Congressional Democrats and the major media want to silence talk radio and greatly reduce the number of guns in private hands.

They intend to be fair masters, but they intend to be masters.

CDC'
Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 04:43:05 (ZULU)

'Lito, did you miss this post I put up from about a week back?

;-)

"I'm sure many of you have heard that Obama's cousing is the leader of the socialist "Orange Democratic Party" in Kenya. He is a tin pot politician of the first order, and Obama campaigned for him, on the taxpayer's dime. I'm willing to bet he was taking notes too.

When his cousin lost the election by roughly 250,000 votes, he got on the media and demanded that his followers make their feelings known, and riots, murder, and mayhem enveloped Kenya.

We MIGHT be looking at real, no-shit tin pot dictator type stuff if Obama gets in, IMO."

Seriously, do a little surfing on the last election in Kenya. It'll scare you. Also, the African Press International is releasing some audiotapes of a call between one of it's reporters and Michelle Obama. She says some pretty racist things in it.

These are looking to be very dark times. Some of us, won't go to slavery so easily. The only problem I can see, is that if we tried to organize "just in case", the way that the NOI is, or the Black Panthers....the feds would be all over us shutting us down. Ironic, ain't it?

Geoff M
WI, USA - Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 04:57:02 (ZULU)

Obama is The Anti-Christ.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 05:59:28 (ZULU)

Sometime back I bought a book from one of InSains buddies. "Echo in the Silence/Darkness" or something like that. I apparently loaned and, of course, have never seen it again. Anyone know the correct title and source?

WR Moore
Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 11:29:04 (ZULU)

Obama appears to have attracted tens if not hundreds of millions of $$ in illegal foreign contributions in the form of donations of under $200. The technique is called "bundling".

Clinton showed the way on this one. Remember China-Loral and Indonesia-clean coal-Grand Staircase in Utah?

This ACORN fraudulent voter registration scheme is no joke. Flood the zone then follow-up with shysters and media hacks.

The last part of that one is Gore's.

All while "The Man on a White Horse" is enjoying 4 star room service and French champaigne at the Waldorf.

This is going to be unpleasant.

CDC'
Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 11:45:12 (ZULU)

Now this is Skydiving !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81gn2oLeC_U

Regards,

Steve

Steven Dzupin
Gaithersburg, Mary Land, Usa - Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 13:23:32 (ZULU)

So, what's the story with these guys?

http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm

medicjim
Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 13:27:45 (ZULU)

After the Echo, by Russ Clagget is what you're looking for WR. Amazon has it, among other places.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America - Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 14:06:02 (ZULU)

Geoff...

I think your post a while back is what triggered my thoughts - I just didn't remember where I had read it - C.R.A.F.T.

:))))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 14:18:19 (ZULU)

Colin Powell announced his endorsement of Obama.

I think the initials B.O. say it all: he stinks.

Duman
Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 15:25:18 (ZULU)

>"Colin Powell announced his endorsement of Obama."<

Man!

All the rats are leaving the party... I guess Colin Powell is looking for an appointment in the "new administration"

Bush may just be the best friend the Democrats ever had, and we may be witnessing the end on the Republican party for the next decade or longer.

They have no one left to run in 2012.

Gingrich turned things around big time in '94. It lasted 6 years and brought in Bush (who was a poor choice).

But the Republicans and Bush threw it all away in 8 years of over confident greediness, and trolling for pork.

Badd juju...

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 17:08:47 (ZULU)

Geoff: I've alluded to things before, but I think I need to go into some details with yo this coming deer season. Where you find pessimism I have optimism---you need to hear why.

The mantra (Goebels would be so proud) of "eight years of failed policies" came up at my youngest's B-day party. "Really? Could you please name just one?" Crickets...But, the line is repeated, now it just IS, in the weak minds of our electorate.

It is not over...it only seems so.

Joe M
Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 18:27:22 (ZULU)

Joe:

Check the zero on your sticks. If X2B de-tuned your bow, your optics may have "drifted" too. subtle parting "gift" :-(

rod regier
back in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 19:11:57 (ZULU)

"They have no one left to run in 2012..."

Pablo: Gingrich would be a perfect candidate - anytime.

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 19:36:05 (ZULU)

Back to some shooting stuff for just a second........

I undersized some necks with the wrong bushing and bought the Sinclair expander die and an oversized 308 mandrel. Pulled the boolits and comenced expanding the necks. One out of 5 case necks was a lot tighter than the others. Hmmm I said to myself. So's I pull out some that I had already sized to .333 just to see ifin there was a difference there also. One of five out of those was tighter than the rest also. Damn....now I'm pissed. After expanding 150 case necks I pulled the neck sizing die out and resized all the necks back to .333. Wondering to myself if some of my flyers have been due to some necks being tighter than others. Do use guys case size then expand the necks and then size the necks again for yer match ammo? I friggin hate to get anal again after I had finally gotten out of that stage.

Bolt out!

Bolt
confused, NC, - Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 20:09:54 (ZULU)

Gents,

Just wanted to swing in and say hey, I am going to step out on a short walk about and wanted to give a shout out. I don't know what internet access is going to be but if I can I will probably do some lurking while I am there.

Take care gents,

See ya on the flip side

Mourge

Morgue
SD, ca, USA - Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 20:45:16 (ZULU)

Ken...

>""They have no one left to run in 2012..."

Pablo: Gingrich would be a perfect candidate - anytime."<

He's no fool - I don't think he would even consider running again - he gave it a quick thought this time around and quickly left it.

He is brilliant and would be an outstanding President, but the media would tear him apart. He is the most hated Republican by the dems because he is their biggest nightmare.

You guys HAVE to listen to this analysis of the financial situation...

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2008/10/01/um/m-01772238.htm

You will drown your keyboard and wet your pants!!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 21:49:12 (ZULU)

>>>>Now this is Skydiving !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81gn2oLeC_U <<<<<

Thanks for posting that Steve. Notice his snake-eyes when they were suiting him up? Focused, eh? 102,000 ft. Geeeeezzzz. This guy has some HUGE cojones. Interesting bit of history.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Sunday, October 19, 2008, at 23:34:53 (ZULU)

Gingrich is the best of the best but he got Borked harder than Bork did.

Morgue: Stay in touch. Be cautious.

Gentlemen: Speaking of extreme behavior, click for "Cindy on Steroids; Camp Pendelton". I hate the music.

CDC'
Monday, October 20, 2008, at 01:49:00 (ZULU)

Geoff,

M80 Ball and M80 for Overhead Fire are loaded with 146 FMJs over 46 grains of WC-846.

Recipe for M118 Special Ball was 44 grains of WC-846 under a 173-grainer.

I'd split the difference at 45 grains using a 155 or 168 SMK.

24.5 of Varget will do for 77 SMKs, Hornady 75s, and Berger 73s but the Noslers have thin J4 skins -- push 'em too fast and you'll get a grey cloud about 50 meters in front of your muzzle.

sinister
Monday, October 20, 2008, at 03:54:19 (ZULU)

Bolt,

On new brass always size the case, expand the necks, then size the necks, especially if you use Lapua brass. Their necks are always too tight. Naturally, after the brass has been fire-formed just neck size 'em and load 'em.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Monday, October 20, 2008, at 05:58:11 (ZULU)

Mourge...

You know the drill-

Dress warm, stay sharp and I'll we'll see ya when you touch down back over here....

cmoore....

out...

cmoore
Dago, Kali, USA of course - Monday, October 20, 2008, at 12:35:43 (ZULU)

These were once fired Win brass, FL sized with Redding die and bushing. Had I not undersized the first batch I wouldn't have thought to check another bunch that I sized properly.

Moons aren't aligning, Bolt out!

Bolt
NC, - Tuesday, October 21, 2008, at 01:57:59 (ZULU)

Hey Guys

Yeah I know this isn't pundit country... but here's what we may have to look forward to.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78576

Anyone know where to find new winchester 308 brass ?

Stay informed, stay free

Calvin

PS Mourge, stay safe my friend.

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Tuesday, October 21, 2008, at 12:19:19 (ZULU)

Thanks Tony.

".....Years of failed policy" was heard at work one day. Asked them when the last terrorist attack was after 9/11 and got silence.

Pity we can't teleport some of these idiots to the sights & smells of a terrorist attack.

WR Moore
Tuesday, October 21, 2008, at 15:51:13 (ZULU)

Calvin:

Try Sinclair Int'l for new Winchester .308Win brass...

Their SKU BR308-W

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=BR308-W

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, October 21, 2008, at 16:30:44 (ZULU)

I've still got the brass from some Winchester .308's that I bought years ago. Was loaded with 147 FMJ and case head marked "WCC". Not the standard Winchester marking. Came in a white box.

Is it the same brass as commercial Winchester or something else? Haven't loaded any of it yet.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Tuesday, October 21, 2008, at 18:23:05 (ZULU)

What would happen if the US didn't need oil or gas for fuel next year?

http://208.84.116.223/forums/index.php?showtopic=26433

nothing to go nuts about, but still, it's fun to think about.

medicjim
Tuesday, October 21, 2008, at 20:16:11 (ZULU)

MK4:

Your WCC brass is mil-spec, which is similar to but not the same as commercial. Mil-spec is typically heavier, to withstand feeding in GPMGs and Miniguns, etc. Calvin was looking for new, yours is presumably once-fired. Primers of the WCC are probably crimped, so you'll have to remove the crimp the first time when reloading.

WCC = Winchester Cartridge Corp.

It probably has a 2-digit production year as part of the headstamp detail. Circle with cross in center would be the NATO RSI marking.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, October 21, 2008, at 23:39:57 (ZULU)

Sinister: thank you, and good to see you back.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Wednesday, October 22, 2008, at 00:29:15 (ZULU)

rod...

>"WCC = Winchester Cartridge Corp.">

Nope - WCC is "WESTERN CARTRIDGE COMPANY"

They had three trade marks/company logos.

"WW" was "Winchester Western"

"WRA" was "Winchester Repeating Arms"

"WCC" is "Western Cartridge Company", and is a trade mark from when Winchester and Western Cartridge Co. merged early in the last century.

They then divided up the markets and some went to Winchester and some went to WCC.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, October 22, 2008, at 00:36:27 (ZULU)

>>> Calvin was looking for new, yours is presumably once-fired. <<<<

Presumably is right.... cause I fired them ;))

I bet Calvin needs some 338 Lapua brass as well. How do I know that? ;))

---

Anybody here tried the new Premier Heritage scope? Everything I'm reading so far is rating it as top notch.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Wednesday, October 22, 2008, at 05:18:15 (ZULU)

Before going to the 'smith a .300 win of mine showed no signs of pressure with my pet hunting load. Now the case won't extract. My 190 SMK target load works fine. There are burrs in the chamber just ahead of the recess for the case's belt. Is there some easy way to polish out the burrs?

Next question: There is a mint .300 WBY Remington Classic that I can get cheap. Should I buy it?

Edited to add: Click for '20s silent film of Art Young in Alaska. Take a minute and let it load then go to 30:00. Watch the sequence. Keep in mind that he was the first guy to do this so he didn't know what would happen, he had no back-up and he no chance of getting medical attention if this stunt headed south.

Balls like a bull.

CDC'
Wednesday, October 22, 2008, at 23:33:17 (ZULU)

Mourge: Keep your head down.

Pat II
Thursday, October 23, 2008, at 01:39:39 (ZULU)

CDC,

What was your 'smith doing that would bugger up the chamber? Do you have access to a finish chamber reamer? Without any pressure on the reamer you might be able to remove the burrs. I haven't tried this so be careful and gentle if you do.

That's quite a movie! That guy definitely has HUGE balls! I wouldn't try to take a Kodiak with a bow unless I had a well armed team of Navy SEALs as back up. ;o)

I'm not a big fan of Weatherby cartridges; but if it's cheap you could always sell it off later or swap for something you really "need".

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The rainy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, October 23, 2008, at 15:41:06 (ZULU)

CDC

Holy shit! I no longer consider myself a hunter. Remarkable footage.

Steve Racer
Erf, - Thursday, October 23, 2008, at 15:59:40 (ZULU)

CDC; Several years ago I bought a used rifle (.243)that had extraction problems and left marks on the case when I finally got the case out. I took it to a gun smith that I knew in high school. He used a section of cleaning rod with an eye patch holder. Threaded some 600 grit sand paper through the eye and around the rod to just about fill the chamber. Stuck the other end of the rod in a drill and spun the sand paper in the chamber. After a few seconds he shot the rifle on his range outside his shop. He spun the sand paper again and shot it. Came back and gave me the rifle. I have put close to 600 rounds through the rifle and have not had any problems extracting or with it marking the case.

HDR

HDR
OK, - Thursday, October 23, 2008, at 16:56:45 (ZULU)

re_ polishing chambers

If you're handy, you can make up a similar rig yourself.

If you're not handy, pay a gunsmith!

Get some 600 to 400 grit silicon carbide paper, a wooden dowel about half the chamber diameter, some light-gage wire and some light oil (Rem Oil would be a good choice).

Cut two strips of the grit paper the length of the chamber body, and around 8 chamber diameters in length.

Split the tip of the dowel a bit more then the length of the chamber body, with enough length below so that you can chuck the dowel into a hand drill (out the back end of the receiver).

Insert the cut papers into the split dowel tip with the non-grit sides agaist each other. Wrap a few turns of the wire around the open split end of the dowel. Twist the ends to secure, cut and dress the wire retainer against the dowel body. Lightly apply the oil to the gritty sides of the paper, Roll up the paper around the dowel body and insert into the chamber. The rolled up paper should push against the sides of the chamber boody with moderate pressure, you should be able to turn the dowel by hand. If it won't fit, remove some of the ends of the paper "wings" and try again. Run the dowel at low speed for say 30 seconds, slowly working it in and out a little bit to keep the polishing even. Check and repeat a few times if necessary.

Clean out the oil and leftover grit with a good solvent, then try at your range. You may have to repeat if the burrs are especially pronounced.

As always, less is more when polishing...

I used this technique to polish up a shotgun chamber that a bit rough.

You don't need/want to insert the polishing rig much deeper than where the rough part of the chamber exists.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, October 24, 2008, at 00:09:47 (ZULU)

Anybody use Hoppes Elite solvent? Comments?

Pat II
Friday, October 24, 2008, at 01:44:54 (ZULU)

Gun control - like we need!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AYG4y5et5g

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, October 24, 2008, at 03:27:29 (ZULU)

Gentlemen: Thanks for the tips on the burrs in the .300 chamber. It is a strange thing. I loaded 100 rounds and shot 30 or 40. No excess pressure was apparent, the empties extracted with no problems and the cases had no scratches. When the rig came back from the gunsmith, it wouldn't extract and the cases had scratches just ahead of the belt. I put a little finger in the chamber and could feel the burrs just ahead of the recess for the belt. I used Rod's trick, except I used 1000 grit paper and Rem-Oil. I turned the dowel with my fingers. It didn't take much. The place that had the burrs is now smooth. My deer season ends Sunday. I'll check it out before the snow falls.

CDC'
Saturday, October 25, 2008, at 04:12:18 (ZULU)

CDC...

What did you take the 300WM to the smith for, that the chamber came back with a burr?

On the 300WBY Classic - it'll slap you around a bit.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 25, 2008, at 09:22:30 (ZULU)

I think I'm gonna scream!

I went to a dinner last night with a lot of folks that are supposed to be "smart".

It was a dinner for Mensa (if you don't know what that is, Google it)... and the topic of the elections came up and I asked how did our system get so screwed up that we have a poor senator who's only accomplishment was the years that he was a POW nearly 40 years ago, and a junior senator that has been in office for less than 150 days... and it looks like we are gonna elect the junior senator for 147 days?

Well... one guy points out, "He was a constitutional law professor for 8 years" - there is kinda of a "mootness" there (badd pun) because Obama was actually a part time lecturer - but there are probably 30,000 law professors in the USA - does that make them good leaders - and of course, Lawyers are at the bottom of society's trust list... but that didn't seem to bother him.

Someone else piped up that the L.A. Times had endorsed Obaba, so that meant that he was the best candidate.

I endured 2 hours of that kind of logic (??).

I guess the point(s) that I'm trying to make is that if the "smart" people have no idea of who these two bozos are, and are depending on the newspapers to tell them who to vote for, then where are the other 98% of the people getting their information.

It has been said by many that a democracy gets the leadership that it deserves - I just don't want to live with the leadership that "they" deserve :(((

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 25, 2008, at 11:10:26 (ZULU)

Catshooter,

I suggest you keep those "adapt and overcome" skills you developed in your recent legal tiff sharp. Our world has been changing for the worse for some time and there are no white knights likely to show anytime soon.

Learn to live among the dullards....they want desperately for someone to chew the facts and mouth feed them an opinion they can repackage as their own....you might consider becoming an alternate supplier.

Hide the venom and contempt, just redirect it. If the rules won't let you win, it's time to change the rules (or cheat).

"If you dislike change, you're going to dislike irrelevance even more." - Chief of Staff Shinseki, a few years before Rumsfeld fired him <g>

medicjim
Saturday, October 25, 2008, at 13:47:15 (ZULU)

'Lito - that's why William F. Buckley said, "I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University."

Wisdom is not unique to the intelligent. Sometimes it seems as if the correlation is inverse.

Lindy
Rockport, Texas, U.S.A. - Saturday, October 25, 2008, at 15:09:36 (ZULU)

CatDude: I broke the handle off the bolt, and - in the emergency - took it to a local. He was the worst butcher I ever saw, so I used an old reliable and sent the .300 to a first-stringer. He had no reason to check the chamber for burrs.

If you think MENSA is bad, check out the triple nine society (click). "Babe Central" it's not. Any reasonable university math department is better.

The .300 WBY was a weak joke.

CDC'
Saturday, October 25, 2008, at 16:02:36 (ZULU)

Lindy...

>"Wisdom is not unique to the intelligent. Sometimes it seems as if the correlation is inverse."<

I have found that many of the "brightest" have the dumbest opinions - not because they disagree with me - sometimes they agree" with me...

... but their process of gathering information is so flawed, and their confidence in it is so high (CDC will know what that means "in spades").

Oddly enough, some of the brightest people I have exchanged ideas with have been folks I have met here - this is a pretty sharp crowd - the quotes from history, the comments from obscure text books and philosophers writings that pop in casual discussions are mind boggling.

This IS the place to be!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 25, 2008, at 16:11:54 (ZULU)

'Lito,

Mensa? Sounds more like Menses.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Saturday, October 25, 2008, at 17:30:04 (ZULU)

Looking for an AR upper with the following characteristics

-good quality

-flat top

-16" lightweight barrel (m4 profile is as heavy as I'll take)

- 1:8 or tighter twist

-float tube

-bead blasted or parkerized finish

-holds 1 MOA or better on the bench

-reasonable price , good value for the money

any suggestions?

I've got two chrome barrels and neither will do better than 2 MOA

medicjim
Saturday, October 25, 2008, at 18:07:49 (ZULU)

Medicjim,

2 MOA? Take off the boxing gloves before you shoot! Here's an upper for ya: http://www.ksccw.com/site/showthread.php?t=8355

Not mine, I just happened to see it befor I saw your post.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, October 25, 2008, at 20:33:27 (ZULU)

Mensa draws it's membership from people in the top 2 percent of intelligence scores. That's not all THAT picky - it equates to a score of 132 on the Stanford-Benet test. The Triple Nine Society requires an IQ score in the top one-tenth of one percent, which equates to an IQ score of around 149.

But I tend to pick my friends more on the basis of character than intelligence. I have met many a smart asshole.

Lindy
Rockport, Texas, U.S.A. - Saturday, October 25, 2008, at 21:04:04 (ZULU)

All right -- straight from Hank Jr. --

click on my name.

Someone save this in case it gets ripped... I don't know how to save it as a local file.

Ken :)

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Saturday, October 25, 2008, at 21:27:55 (ZULU)

Ken...

I don't think you can download from that site.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, October 25, 2008, at 23:39:11 (ZULU)

Jim, take a long look at the Noveske stuff, probably the N4 lineup suits your needs best. Your 1st requirement and last requirement are pretty much mutually exclusive. I'd recommend the "buy quality and only cry once" routine. After some time climbing and diving, I don't worry about price much anymore, I just buy the quality I need and it costs what it costs. My Noveske SPR does everything I ask it to.

Other makers I can vouche for: Wes at MSTN and John Holliger at White Oak Precision, John also runs White Oak Armament which is the semi-custom side of his true custom shop. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Sunday, October 26, 2008, at 02:32:47 (ZULU)

'lito,

Obviously I don't have to tell you, but for everyone else, you can trust me on this.

Mensa functions are probably the most boring get-togethers in existence.

Root canals are more fun.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Sunday, October 26, 2008, at 06:48:27 (ZULU)

Ken - email sent through roster, no attachments.

Mensa - Why would a super intelligent person seek to identify themselves with a minority which will ensure they are stigmatized by the common man? Kinda dumb move, eh? Aren't there all manner of examples of how this sort of activity tends to land one in a concentration camp when society takes a dump?

medicjim
Sunday, October 26, 2008, at 13:48:56 (ZULU)

Spam going around:

"Yesterday on my way to lunch at Applebee's with my wife, I passed one of those homeless guys in the area with a sign that read, 'Vote Obama, I need the money!'

Once in Applebee's, my waiter had on an 'Obama 08' tee shirt.

When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained to him while he had given my wife and I exceptional service, that his tee shirt made me feel he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute the wealth, so I told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away.

I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the waiter inside, as I had decided he could use the money more than him. The homeless guy looked at me in disbelief, but seemed grateful.

As I got in my car, I realized this rather unscientific redistribution of the wealth experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn.

Well....I guess this redistribution of wealth thing is going to take a while to catch on with those doing the work...."

There are at least two problems with this: Two bums could out-vote the waiter and the bum is only grateful once. After that he is pissed off if he doesn't get the hand-out.

CDC'
Sunday, October 26, 2008, at 16:02:51 (ZULU)

1/50 isn't "superintelligent". Heck, 1/(50^2) isn't. Anyone like that who is getting cocky should go find his nearest math dept and sign up for an upper-level real analysis sequence. (click for a sample)

The lesson in humility comes at no extra charge.

CDC'
Sunday, October 26, 2008, at 16:12:26 (ZULU)

I hate to flood you guys but today's Mark Steyn is a Must Read. Click.

CDC'
Sunday, October 26, 2008, at 16:32:45 (ZULU)

CDC:

From what I have heard, even entry-level real analysis is no walk in the park :-)

Many years ago, a math-major friend "hit the wall" in the real analysis course he took...

My math "wall" was systems of partial differential equations.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, October 26, 2008, at 18:22:35 (ZULU)

Ken Hunter,

>Someone save this in case it gets ripped... I don't know how to save it as a local file.<

Done.

If anybody wants a copy lemme know.

jc - very UN-cocky - I get lost in Wal-Mart

jc
Sunday, October 26, 2008, at 22:05:07 (ZULU)

CDC -- I got the same spam in your post above. I added the missing lines to your post above in that story. There were some funny characters in the original post... There's more info on that homeless guy.....

Take care,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, USofA Under God, Hosted by Bush - Sunday, October 26, 2008, at 22:35:00 (ZULU)

jc...

I'd like a copy.

How do you copy stuff down from You-Tube?

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 00:08:01 (ZULU)

Lito,

Frank Zappa once said, "It's not getting any smarter out there."

I have a lot of respect for 'pluggers', those folks that keep plugging forward and continually making small, personal progress. The self-proclaimed 'geniuses' don't really impress me much.

jc - count me in for a copy.

Duman
Monday, October 27, 2008, at 01:31:56 (ZULU)

Rod: PDE may as well be Reals. The hard parts don't get any easier.

jc: I get around Wally World okay but I have Hell finding my truck.

Duman: Richard Feynman (Physics Nobel Winner) said He didn't believe in geniuses; He believed in homework.

CDC'
Monday, October 27, 2008, at 01:34:26 (ZULU)

On the McCain-Palin YouTube video give this a try and see if it'll d/l from my small homepage.

http://bellsouthpwp2.net/J/e/JerryLCopeland/McCain-Palin%20Tradition%20Video%20Oct%2026.flv.avi

Use the link or click on my name

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 05:55:42 (ZULU)

'lito,

There's a program call Replay AV from Applian that does it. Go to Applian.com and look around. They have several toys available.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 06:02:26 (ZULU)

Jihad Country:

Ok, I`ll apologize and beg ignorance up front. This was probably covered a couple million times by now and I missed it. But, today as my 81-year-old, WWII veteran, liberal father-in-law was expounding on the virtues of "The Messiah", B Hussien O`biden, I couldn`t help but wonder how the hell anyone so "educated" could be so wrong and so annoying at the same time. In typical fashion, I got my fill of clandestine revenge by going home and finally watching the DVD that showed up in my mailbox entititled, "Obsession; Radical Islam`s War Against The West" (no, I don`t have cable). This was all to prove to myself that HE was full of shit and I was the enlightened one. I know, severely pathetic! But at least it got me wanting to know more and directed my rage to a better place.

At any rate, in the process, I ran across a Muslim webpage with a petition to sign against adopting Sharia law, proportedly run by the "peaceful, silent majority" of the Muslim religeon. Contained in the text near the end of one article was this:

"Attempts by America and its allies to impose democracy and human rights on the Islamic world will rightly be resisted as neocolonialism and will simply drive more and more Muslims into the arms of the extremists. The onus is on us to promote the ideals of personal freedom, progress and change from within Muslim society, with help from those in the rest of the world who share our ideals and hopes for the future."

I note the key disparity in the the paragraph being between the words "impose" and "promote". From the start I`ve been squarely on board the 'kill`em all' train, but assuming for the sake of argument they are on track with their assertion, my question is simply........how? How, when the peaceful silent Muslims are quietly watching and waiting to see if their brethren make any headway. Not sure I`ve heard the how part discussed on any rational level. The pointy-heads haven`t been big on detail that I`ve heard. Only what we shouldn`t have done, not what to do now. My contention is that, at this point, there IS no rational level where the premise could be "promoted" without the radicals on the other side of the table deeming it too little, too late, and wanting to cut heads off. Personally, I don`t think it was ever up for negotiation that they ever WOULD accept human rights, captalism, justice, or McDonalds on every corner, at ANY point. Before or now. WTF! I`ve never bought that they just want the infidels out of their soil and we can all just go about our business.

The way I see it, in my limited perspective, is that it was always a predetermined prophecy (Quran?) that we would one day be where we are, discussions and policy be damned. So, There ya go. I`m right back to kill `em all.

Make no mistake, I`m not saying we should bend to their will, but isn`t the rest of this whole mess a forgone conclusion by their own admission? The onus is on us or more and more moderates will turn to the extremists side? I believe someone on here espoused the theory that the moderates are just biding their time to see what happens. Using their theory, we should eradicate them all right now, peaceful or otherwise. The foregone conclusion is that there`s no way to satisfy them even if we were of a mind to try, so the cancer grows. Submit or die? Yeah, I got your submission. Right here!

Am I wrong on this? I`ve got a belly-full of these sign carrying do-gooders chanting their fucking slogans. Was there ever any REAL prevention for what is happening? I know it`s a moot point now, call it simple couriosity. I file it under know thy enemy. Thanks.

Steve Racer
Erf, - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 07:16:10 (ZULU)

Steve...

Lemma throw a different light on it.

In the muslim world, there are a lot of "Nut Jobs" that want to have "their" religion control the world - most religions are like that, they just do about it differently.

In the past, moderates in a religion would start an off shoot group and call it something else. That's why we have so many brands of Christianity.

But in the last 10 or so years, these off shoot groups and religious malcontents have discovered the internet.

Why get a few hundred converts and have to move all your "stuff" a thousand miles away and start all over again (especially when there is no more free land available)... when you can start an internet group, and get...

..... Ta-ta "DONATIONS"!!!

These folks that are protesting USA involvement are really protesting the USA taking away their limelight (and their bucks).

They can NOT change the muslim world from the inside, but they CAN collect a lot of money talking about it.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 14:03:35 (ZULU)

What the world mght be like years after Obama gets elected.....Clicky.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 14:09:18 (ZULU)

Clicky. Hadji shoots into the air in celebration, then lets his toddler hold the gun...... heh, heh.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 14:17:44 (ZULU)

Travis: I hope that guy wasn't on our side.

CDC'
Monday, October 27, 2008, at 14:55:20 (ZULU)

Brit soldier refused a motel room for his service.Click.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 15:18:52 (ZULU)

`Lito,

So then, to take it further, they collect their donations and make the neccessary changes and moves, all to......take over and subvert everyone to their religion (or die). Not to over-simplify this mess, but essentially it was always going to happen at some point and we are at that point? Now is the time when all the cogs fall into place for them to make their move? The money, recruitment, world stage, politics, etc.? I`m not arguing, I don`t have an educated enough opinion to HAVE an argument. Again, assuming that`s the case.....now what? We are basically beating ourselves because the majority in this country are fools and we are about to prove it. And all we can do is try to convince everyone that McCain is our best chance "for the kind of change we need" ? Man, we are SO screwed!!!!

I have a feeling my worst fears and predictions are about to come to fruition. We are going to find out in the near future that health care and the economy and jobs AREN`T at the top of the list.

My contention is that, at some point, people WILL begin exploding on the street corner. When folks are afraid to go out to the market or the gas station the truth will come to light. Unfortunately, when the wolf has your throat in his jaws it`s too late to realize you should have taken the other path. That evil Bush and his wrong-headed pre-emption!!! Hmmmmmmm?

Steve Racer
somewhere in Dillsburg , PA, USA - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 16:14:37 (ZULU)

CDC...

That is one of the scariest things I have heard in a long time...

Steve...

I think two things - first one is about those "moderate groups". I don't think most of them have any intention of changing anything. They have their mailing lists, and collect money and do nothing but ask for more money.

We have a LOT of those groups here in the USA - think "Friends of Animals", "Green Peace", and the "Alliance to Save the Prairie Dog".

They pray on soft hearts and rake in millions, but accomplish little or nothing - but they higher ups are living in high clover.

But the second thing I think is this... there has been the mother of all wars brewing for hundreds of years, and that is the war for the dominant religion in the world. The muslims had a good shot at it during the time of Ottoman Empire and the Christians ran them out of Europe. The muslims have been waiting for payback ever since.

They never had the ability in the past, because all of the power and technical inovations of fighting belonged the the Jewdeo-Christian societies.

But with multi trillions of western dollars, they can buy the war machines, and they have the ability to go to financial war with the west... and WIN :(

So I do think the poopie will hit the fan, just not from the so called "internal reformers".

I think this war in Iraq is just the beginning, and Obama will make it a lot worse.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 16:35:23 (ZULU)

Steve,

Lest you forget it has already happened in our neck of the woods.. Remember the 'punks in the trunk' and their little shooting spree ?

Remember the 'defensive cardboard' decoys that folks were setting up just so they could pump gas ? Now that's an effective counter measure....!!! Ahh but the American psyche/memory has become that of a infant...

Stay safe brother

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 16:37:36 (ZULU)

CDC...

That audio is all over the radio today.

It dawns on me that it might not start as a "socialist redistribution", but as straight confiscation, under the guise of that old dog, "reparations"...

... you know, "We're taking the money from these rich people and giving it to the poor because the rich got rich on the backs of the poor".

I don't think I would bet the farm on it, but I DO think there is a good possibility of a internal war in the USA among the citizens.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 17:58:20 (ZULU)

Well Folks looks to me like we either hang together or all hang separately....

Stay safe

Calvin

PS if anyone is interested in a blueprint for the constitutional way to hang together check this out.... it will fill you with hope for the republic..

http://www.amazon.com/Constitutional-Homeland-Security-Americans-Revitalize/dp/0967175925

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 18:13:46 (ZULU)

Calvin,

That last commnt reminded me of an exchange from my favorite movie, "Blazing saddles":

Railroad worker: "Dey said you wuz hung!"

Sheriff Bart: "And they was right!"

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 19:15:33 (ZULU)

rod regier; Your chamber polish trick worked perfectly. The burrs were on the edge just ahead of the recess in the chamber that accomodates the belt so I only cleaned-up that edge. I used 1000 grit paper, rem-oil, a dowel and a very little manual spinning.

(Bang, hit, eject)x5. There are no scratches on the cases.

Thanks.

CDC'
Monday, October 27, 2008, at 23:15:08 (ZULU)

CDC:

You're welcome. I learned it in the shotgun forum at The High Road.

I shudder to think what the gun plumber you were forced to use earlier did to the chamber to burr it... Ouch!

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, October 27, 2008, at 23:58:28 (ZULU)

OK anyone read William W. Johnstone "Out of the Ashes"?? If not, and this IS a novel written in 1983, HOLD ON TO YOUR whatever, and read it! Kind of scary!!! More than scary down right prophetic (if I spelled that right!)

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Tuesday, October 28, 2008, at 00:46:42 (ZULU)

Where's Joe M.?

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Tuesday, October 28, 2008, at 03:04:01 (ZULU)

Sarge,

I got hooked on that series shortly after it came out. It really does make one think. Wm. W. Johnstone was an old Missouri boy who passed away a few years back; but someone is still writing under that name. I hated to see the series end.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The chilly Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, October 28, 2008, at 04:01:42 (ZULU)

CDC',

Feynman is one person I'd love to have over for dinner. I refer to his written lectures and am amazed at how clearly he can see the physical world. His layman's lecture on quantum electrodynamics was .... brilliant.

BTW, I'm teaching an electronics course to some future technicians. I tapped into the MIT online courses for some fresh examples. Lots of good stuff there.

Duman
Tuesday, October 28, 2008, at 05:32:23 (ZULU)

Larry - Joe is around and we are talking on a regular basis. Don't really want to get into it more than that. If Joe wants to share, he'll log in eventually. But he is doing OK so far, considering.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Tuesday, October 28, 2008, at 06:03:21 (ZULU)

Duman: Quantum whuh??? I don't know what that stuff is. Lindy posted the MIT link.

CDC'
Tuesday, October 28, 2008, at 11:47:59 (ZULU)

Geoff M.

As long as he's "o.k."

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Tuesday, October 28, 2008, at 14:31:10 (ZULU)

from Wikipedia:

Quantum electrodynamics (QED) is a relativistic quantum field theory of electrodynamics. QED was developed by a number of physicists, beginning in the late 1920s. It basically describes how light and matter interact. More specifically it deals with the interactions between electrons, positrons and photons. QED mathematically describes all phenomena involving electrically charged particles interacting by means of exchange of photons. It has been called "the jewel of physics" for its extremely accurate predictions of quantities like the anomalous magnetic moment of the electron, and the Lamb shift of the energy levels of hydrogen.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_electrodynamics

Glad to hear Joe is getting by, I certainly wish him all the best.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, October 28, 2008, at 16:49:14 (ZULU)

How marvelous !!

More executives sold on Obama

They must have open minds, so much so that their collective brains have fallen out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Ken Dilanian, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — Dan Cooper, a proud member of the National Rifle Association, has backed Republicans for most of his life. He's the chief executive of Cooper Arms, a small Montana company that makes hunting rifles.

Cooper said he voted for George W. Bush in 2000, having voted in past elections for every Republican presidential nominee back to Richard Nixon. In October 1992, he presented a specially made rifle to the first President. Bush during a Billings campaign event.

This year, Cooper has given $3,300 to the campaign of Democrat Barack Obama. That's on top of the $1,000 check he wrote to Obama's U.S. Senate campaign in 2004, after he was dazzled by Obama's speech at that year's Democratic National Convention.

Cooper is a player in one of the little-told dramas of the 2008 presidential campaign: how Obama has been able to out-raise Republican John McCain among swaths of the business community, outperforming previous Democratic presidential nominees in drawing business support

Cooper changed sides, he said, "probably because of the war. And also because the Republican Party has moved so far right in recent years."

He also likes Obama's message about "the retooling of America, which involves the building of middle-class jobs and helping American small business be competitive with those overseas."

In 2000 and again in 2004, George W. Bush out-raised his Democratic rival among employees and executives of nearly every business sector, according to the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics, which codes contributors by occupation.

In this election, however, Obama has bested McCain among employees and executives in finance, insurance and real estate; health; communications; law; and "miscellaneous business," according to the center's tally of contributions through August.

McCain has maintained the traditional Republican lead in transportation, construction, defense, energy and agribusiness.

In the miscellaneous business sector — which includes retail, service industries and many small enterprises — Bush out-raised Democrat John Kerry, $20.6 million to $14.8 million in 2004. Obama has taken in $20.5 million from that sector to McCain's $13.4 million, records show. Those numbers don't include September and October, when Obama was raising tens of millions but McCain's campaign was not taking private donations. McCain accepted $84 million in public financing while Obama opted out of the federal system.

Obama has taken in twice as much as McCain from employees of pharmaceutical and related companies, the center found. And Obama has raised $5.1 million from workers at computer and Internet companies, compared with McCain's $1.3 million.

Among Obama's contributors, 5,845 list "CEO" or "chief executive" in their title, compared with 2,597 of McCain's donors, according to election records compiled by CQ MoneyLine. In the 2003-04 cycle, 3,567 of Bush's donors were listed that way, compared with 1,686 for Kerry.

"I guess he can't accuse us of being the candidate of big business," McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said. He noted that some Democrats are raising money for McCain, and he criticized Obama for forgoing public financing.

Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt noted that unlike Obama, McCain accepts money from federal lobbyists.

"Our campaign has been funded by more than 3.1 million Americans who gave an average of $86," he said.

Mary Kay Cashman runs a Caterpillar franchise in Nevada. She has given $68,600 to Republican candidates over the years, including $2,000 to Bush in 2003. This year, she changed her registration to Democrat to caucus for Obama in the Nevada primary.

"There's an abundant amount of evidence that the status quo isn't working and the direction needs to be changed," she said. Asked why she didn't support Democrat Al Gore in 2000 or Kerry in 2004, she said, "There are personality traits that are required in a leader, and neither Gore nor Kerry had those."

Bill Struve runs a small business in Wilmington, N.C., that develops metal clay, which is used in making jewelry. He said the only time he hasn't backed a Republican for president is when he cast a vote for independent Ross Perot in 1992. He has given Obama $2,300 this year. "The Republicans have … lost their footing on economics," he said.

Bob Clark of Missouri and Victor Hammel of Pennsylvania are CEOs of large businesses who tend to back Democrats but also donate to Republicans. Clark runs Clayco, a St. Louis real estate development firm. Hammel leads J.C. Ehrlich, a pest-control company based in Reading, Pa..

They are the types McCain had hoped to attract. Instead, Clark, who raised thousands for Bush in 2000, has raised more than $500,000 for Obama. And Hammel, who regularly gives money to Republican Sen. Arlen Specter, has donated $2,300 to Obama.

"Barack is definitely more liberal than I am," Clark said. "But I'm willing to compromise on some of those issues for what I think is the greater good."

Hammel said, "I would rather pay a little higher tax on a higher profit than a lower tax rate on lower profits."

FU#KEM ALL !!!!!!!!

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, Usa - Tuesday, October 28, 2008, at 23:09:16 (ZULU)

Steven Dzupin: I guess those morons - especially those in the arms industry have no idea or are ignoring Obama's 2nd ammendment voting record.

I'm still not hearing Obama getting hammered by anyone on the 2nd ammendment. .....

Sighhh......

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Tuesday, October 28, 2008, at 23:48:17 (ZULU)

Hey Joisey...

What you said!!!

It is being said that G.W. Bush may be singularly responsible for the end of the Republican party.

It goes like this, If Obama gets in, he has already said he wants amnesty leading to citizenship for 12,000,000 illegal Mexicans - since the presidential elections are rarely more then 1,000,000 votes in one way or the other, that will guarantee future elections will be carried by the Dems. The Mexicans will also shift the border states to the left, which will make another impassable hurtle.

Plus, the left wants to silence talk radio by bringing back the old "Fairness Doctrine", and that will be the end of political talk against the left, and there is no access to the TV media by the right, and it will mean that there is no public opposing opinion to the left.

They CAN do it. We CANNOT stop them after they get all three offices. There is nothing in the constitution that prevents them from doing it - and if Obama gets a few SCOTUS appointments under his belt - it's all over for America.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, October 28, 2008, at 23:49:35 (ZULU)

Lito'

I beg to differ that there is nothing 'WE the People' can do about the current situ.. It may be an uphill battle but I think my fellow patriots are up to the challenge..

http://www.committeesofsafety.com/Committees_of_Safety/Home.html

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 01:35:22 (ZULU)

rod reger: I lied. I actually do know what quantum electrodynamics is but I have never done the math.

I went deer hunting today with the .300 win. We climbed a mountain and were going to work a ridge when we saw hunters coming the other way. The morning was blown so we tried a different hill. When we met back up, my hunting partner asked why I carried such a heavy rifle. I looked around and saw a reddish rock up the hill 718 yards away. I put the spotting scope on it and found a white spot that was no more than 5" in diameter. I figured a full-value 10mph wind. He spotted while I shot. The bullet hit about 2" directly above the white spot. He got all excited.

Rick, Dave, Gooch, Mike Miller, Pablito and others: Thanks.

CDC'
Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 03:15:22 (ZULU)

Guys,

Everyone's going nuts buyin themselves an AR before the election; I'd rather have a .308 for a battle-type rifle. I'm thinking something along the lines of an HK. What makes, models do you guys suggest? I'd like one that'll still do for coyotes at 400 yards.

If I DO get a piddlin' little .223, what do you guys suggest? I'm leaning towards a mini-14, but I'm considering one of those rack grade police trade ins. Anyone remember which website had them? They were running around $500, or a little less.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 03:50:37 (ZULU)

Travis...

I have a Mini-14, and I like it for what it is.. but it AIN'T a 400 yd yote riffle.

Mine holds 1.5" groups at 100yds, and other Mini guys tell me that I have the pick of the litter. This is my second one - my first one couldn't hit a phone booth if you were standing inside!!

But they are fool proof, and they are more reliable than a AR-15.

I would not have second thoughts about a Mini-14 for a "battle" riffle, and leave it at that - get something more accurate for 400 yd yotes.

If you want both in one stick, get an AR - a decent AR will hold 1 moa or better, magazines are cheap and plentiful (for now), and parts are all over the place, and they are reliable - I have a SP-1 CAR and have not cleaned it since 1994 (a point of pride in this case!!!)

CDC...

Thanks for the "thanks"... but I didn't do anything!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 09:26:03 (ZULU)

Any thoughts on the HK 91?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 10:43:16 (ZULU)

Is there any reason NOT to buy Harris rock mount bipods? I've got a shot at 3 used ones for $100 and change.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 11:10:07 (ZULU)

Clint Eastwood's got a new movie coming out. It's a MUST SEE. You old farts will get to see a 1911 and an M1 put to good use, n a way you've probably wated to. Click my name for the trailer.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 11:46:28 (ZULU)

Inspiring story of a marine that just won't quit. Click.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 12:16:05 (ZULU)

Travis...

The HK-91 is a good stick.

Wazza "rock mount" bipod???

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 12:17:08 (ZULU)

"lito,

Figured it out-the guy has a harris and two off-brand bipods. Any other impressions on the 91?

Found the following on levergunner.com:

Sarah Palin is invited to meet with the Pope while he is vacationing south of Rome in Venice.

The liberal press reluctantly watches the semi-private audience, hoping they will be able to allot minimal coverage, if any. The Pope asks Governor Palin to join him on a Gondola ride through the canals of Venice. They're admiring the sights and agreeing on moral issues when, all of a sudden, the Pope's hat (zucchetto) blows off his head and out into the water.

The gondolier starts to reach for the Pontiff's cap with his pole, but this move threatens to overturn the floating craft. Sarah waves the tour guide off, saying, "Wait, wait. I'll take care of this. Don't worry." She steps off the gondola onto the surface of the water and walks out to the Pope's hat, bends over and picks it up. She walks back across the water to the gondola and steps aboard. She hands the hat to the Pope a mid stunned silence.

The next morning the topic of conversation among Democrats in Congress, CBS News, NBC News, ABC News, CNN, the New York Times, Hollywood celebrities, and in France and Germany is:

"Palin Can't Swim"

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 12:46:10 (ZULU)

Border patrol detaining and searching folks INSIDE the U.S. border. Clicky.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 13:29:54 (ZULU)

Travis...

I looked up the rock mount bipods - they are a knock-off of the Harris. Harris' patents ran out a long time ago, and these are running about 1/2 the price of the Harris.

Go to midwayusa.com and search "Rock mount bipod"

If they are in good condx and what you want, then it's probably a good deal.

The HK-91 uses a fluted chamber and it's a little rough on cases for reloading. Other than that, it's a very reliable riffle.

I once had a three speed version - the mean feds took it away :(

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 13:36:07 (ZULU)

Travis: HKs are heavier than you might be thinking. 308 battle rifles always are. On yotes at 400; a rack grade is not the ideal choice, either. Especially a mover; I thought to myself, when I saw that post: "Damn, that would be fun walking rounds around a yote on the move"---as long as you were buying my ammo:)) Lito's idea on the AR is great advice. I say this because the AR is what I use up here for this task. If I am on my hill or near the fenceline (where 300 plus are likely)--I use the stealth in 223. I prefer hits to practice when the yotes are nearby:))

It occurs to me that we are in for big shit either way the election goes. Europe is now dealing with "phase II" of the economic collapse. So far, there is no real attempt to stave it off. If Obama wins, his ideas are the accelerant for this fire...if McCain wins, I expect a lefty revolt of sorts, and rioting in certain districts. And all while we flood the world with newly printed dollars that have not been earned yet. I keep hearing: "We never faced a crisis like this before....we are doing things differently from the depression era mistakes...we are charting new ground with this response." All BS. One country tried this approach in the face of the depression, and that got us Hitler. Today, we cheapen the dollar once more by all expectations.

I'm OK, but the intitial hearing only highlighted what a long slog this is going to be. For her parting shot, she put about half my bills in arears, and took two months' pay out the door. Because the hearing did not address this, she thinks she got over. Every little thing will be shoved up the proverbial fourth point (airborne speak)---and I intend to orient these sideways as i bring them to bear:)) In the meantime, i have to keep the power on---today:)) As far as the hearing--I got the girls by a thread, and all the bills. Nothing like rewarding bad behavior. But, that is what the trial itself is for.

Take care gents! The fight is my overriding concerns right now. My little girls deserve all I have and then some. I'll try to get by here more often, but for now the internet is only a law library.

Joe M
Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 13:57:20 (ZULU)

Guys,

The battle/coyote rifle deal is mostly a SHTF rifle. Coyotes would just be for practice.

Joe,

I ain't got much, but give me a holler if you need ANYTHING. (specially storage for that hotrod diesel!)

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 14:05:24 (ZULU)

Travis, look here:

http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?cat=33&shop=1&

Joe, glad you are o.k., relatively speaking...

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 14:18:32 (ZULU)

Travis: Buy the harris for 50, and walk away from the rocks. They suck rocks.

These two clowns in this "assassination plot" are truly a joke; tooling around in a swastikapainted car, bragging to anyone who will listen, and being inept little punks in everyway possible. And the media plays it like "OMG! Our guy is sooo brave to face such dangers." I am reminded of the crew in jersey that was going to hit FT Dix. The AP and Reuters played that one as if it was the joke. But the asshats did have a decent idea, and were serious about their training. The contrast of media coverage of these two plots could not paint a better picture of their biases.

Joe M
Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 14:31:40 (ZULU)

Travis,

My experience with Mini-14s is bad. Very bad. But my brother has one that shoots just fine (fine == "goes bang every time").

AR-15s are the standard, from what i can see, of the "Hi-speed, Low-drag" guys. And there are (literally) tons of parts and modifications for the AR, including different cartridges (new upper). You can put a carbine upper, or a heavy varmint barrel upper, using the same lower.

HK-91 is very heavy. And it will run you ~$2k+. Ejected brass is zebra-striped (from the roller-block delayed gas blow-back ejection design). You might consider an Armalite or something, if cost is a consideration.

HK == "High Kost". Period.

AR == "Affordable, Really".

Mini == "Mine Is Not Inservice."

Duman
Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 15:04:21 (ZULU)

Semi-auto long gun country:

Had a Mini-14 several years ago, functioned fine, but POI would walk as the barrel heated up. Common phenomena for the breed. Current production may be better, Ruger has improved on the gas block and barrels. I sold the Mini-14, got an AR15 pattern rifle. Much better.

AR15 is much easier to clean chamber and barrel, better parts availability, easy to work on. (Try and get a spare firing pin for a Mini-14 :-(

Optics mounting on the HK can be tricky if you try and use the factory system. Getting a good trigger on one is supposedly hard too.

Midsouth had good pricing on Harris bipods a few years ago, try them.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 16:56:55 (ZULU)

This is why Dillon Precision products are so expensive....

http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos.do?displayContent=177608&ESRC=marine.nl

Duman
Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 17:53:53 (ZULU)

So this might be a dumb question but what kind of weapons ban are they talking about? and what about people with C&C?

Jon Kujawa
Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 19:12:49 (ZULU)

Jon: Ownership is a given with the heller decision, so expect some of the following: Taxes, more taxes and damned taxes that'll make the taxes on cigarettes look reasonable. Targeted ammo sales prohibitions; manufacturer liabilities expanded all to hell; trial lawyers given green lights to wreck an industry; increased fees for dealers; "reasonable limits" on purchases and calibers; "reasonable" bans on specific make and models; all this designed to circumvent Heller...yeah, they'll say you can own a gun--but feeding, replacing or repairing it will be another issue entirely.

This stuff will come down without debate or warning, too. They will bury these measures in clean water acts and budget omnibus bills.

As the french would say, just prior to "we surrender:" Le fuck...

It sure is nice to have problems outside my friggin' divorce:)) Not!

Joe M
Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 20:16:06 (ZULU)

death of a thousand cuts...

AUTHOR: Daniel Webster (1782–1852)

QUOTATION: The power to tax is the power to destroy.

ATTRIBUTION: This quotation comes from the words of DANIEL WEBSTER and those of JOHN MARSHALL in the Supreme Court case, McCulloch v. Maryland.

Webster, in arguing the case, said: “An unlimited power to tax involves, necessarily, a power to destroy,” 17 U.S. 327 (1819).

In his decision, Chief Justice Marshall said: “That the power of taxing it [the bank] by the States may be exercised so as to destroy it, is too obvious to be denied” (p. 427), and “That the power to tax involves the power to destroy … [is] not to be denied” (p. 431).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 22:06:07 (ZULU)

All I can say is WOW, It seems that I really should be paying attention to the elections more than I should.

Jon Kujawa
Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 22:10:11 (ZULU)

prepare:

- Spare guns

- spare parts (incl magazines)

- ammunition stocks

but you knew that already :-)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, October 29, 2008, at 22:42:34 (ZULU)

Rifle country: If you're thinking of an HK, you should check out the PTR series from JLD Enterprises (I think). Good quality HK clones at likely half the prices. Many of the parts are original HK. They are good shooters.

Right now you can find G3 mags for 3-5 bucks a pop. Get them while they last.

Pat II
Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 00:21:21 (ZULU)

The fluted chambers tears up the brass, just like an HK, though.

Pat II
Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 00:25:11 (ZULU)

I like having lots of ammo around, because it makes life easier when i head out for a week/end of shooting. But if the fecal material really hits the rotary oscillator, how many rounds do you think you'll be able to handle? If you're on the move, how much do you really think you can take with you?

I'm not an anarchist, or anti-government, or a revolutionary, but what do you think you could really take with you, if things got bad?

Just wondering...

Duman
Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 03:29:58 (ZULU)

364rds of 5.56 in 13 mags. 12 mags on my vest, one in the weapon.

Plus about a 1000 more in the truck with the gear.

But I'm a light weight where pistol ammo's concerned: only 400-500 in the truck besides the 3-4 mags I keep handy. 45ACP of course ;-)))

Edited to add: SHTF gear is basic combat stuff. The puzzle is how to keep it handy without getting arrested for having an "ARSENAL!!!!"

SSG Mac
Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 11:42:18 (ZULU)

Hey YA'll,

To save band width here's a url... But this is something you should have read in the past but should re-familiarize your self with due to the current political situ..

http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

Kinda sounds familiar doesn't it ?

As for ammo and such... Think pre-position. It won't mean anything though if you don't have mutual protection agreements with your neighbors.. If you go it alone you will just be surrounded by savages and reduced in place..

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 12:36:45 (ZULU)

Here's the new "Assault weapons bill", just waiting for Obama.

Go here.

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/c110query.html

Then in the little window that says "enter search", type:

H.R.6257

and then hit "search"

And then Puke!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 13:05:17 (ZULU)

Hey Lito',

Link doesn't work.. But no matter, the communist have always understood that all power comes from the barrel of a gun. They want us dis-armed in a big way and the 'heller case' gives them the ammo to do it. We, patriotic Americans got screwed on that deal..

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 13:28:23 (ZULU)

Calvin...

I fix.

It workie now.

Follow instructions that I changed.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 15:34:36 (ZULU)

Lito' Sir,

Thanks for the heads up on the vomit part... My only question would be

Were does the congress get it's authority to issue such an unconstitutional abomination ?

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 17:09:27 (ZULU)

re: spares and stocks

I was thinking about something short of SHTF scenario, where taxes and regs make guns, ammo and parts harder/much more expensive to acquire.

The bad people have to raise the temperature slowly to boil the "frogs"...

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 17:18:11 (ZULU)

rod regier: That is how you boil a frog, but sometimes events take on lives of their own, pent up energies are unexpectedly released and there are discontinuities.

CDC'
Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 22:18:50 (ZULU)

SHTF scenario:

I go to work. 'nuff said.

later

JR
fla, - Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 23:39:20 (ZULU)

I want this damn election to be over. The only people that will win in this mess are the talk show hosts. NUFF SAID......

Small Base Dies......

I got stupid again and ordered a 308 body die and a small base die. I don't know why I did but I felt the need to have every friggin piece of stuff that Sinclair sells. Exactly what are these used for? Will a full length sizing die not size to SAMMI specs?

You guys only need to carry one boolit in your pocket. Barney Fife did it for years.

Bolt out!

Bolt
depressed in ..........., NC, - Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 23:43:16 (ZULU)

CDC:

Concur, just speculating on the likely future pacing of the federal unilateral personal disarmament movement in the US. Their intendended victims won't necessarily co-operate.

'Lito:

Direct link to the draft legislation

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.6257.IH:

(click my name for the {gag} link)

Assault Weapons Ban Reauthorization Act of 2008 (Introduced in House)

.PDF link:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:h6257ih.txt.pdf

It's interesting to note that the list of exempted manually-operated long gun mfgr/models details has apparently not been updated from the 1993 legislation. They obviously put little new effort into the 2008 version.

The Congress critters you elect could be even more important than your Presidential vote, given how the race for the President is going.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, October 30, 2008, at 23:48:32 (ZULU)

Rifle company executive ousted after announcing Obama support

Montana gunsmith Dan Cooper has been ousted as chief executive of the rifle company that bears his name after pressure from gun owners who are angry that he is supporting Democrat Barack Obama.

http://www.nrapvf.org/news/Read.aspx?ID=11761&T=7

(or click my name)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, October 31, 2008, at 00:01:14 (ZULU)

Rod,

good find. I was just about to comment on Dan Cooper's ill judgement when I read the post below, apparently his shareholders have a little more common sense than the owner, and apparently the owner needed those shareholders to have the company he has. He needs to remember the business he is in. Dan personally giving money to wherever he chooses is his own business and I don't give two shits, but Dan as CEO of a rifle making company saying he lost favour with GW due to the war, therefore is now aligning with Obama, well I tell you what, he is the most unpopular guy in his plant.

It's not uncommon when there is a military engagement ensuing, the domestic gun trade goes up, often goes hand in hand. Everyone is fighting for those bread and butter defense contracts, more companies sprout up to fill the void, and they figure out how to get arms made, period. If you are working for a rifle making company, generally you want to have the sales coming your way, and one way to kill sales is to have your boss endorsing an anti-defense presidential candidate. Cooper firearms evolved from Kimber, I reckon if it's employee owned and Dan doesn't get his head together, it will evolve into another name.

later

JR
FL, - Friday, October 31, 2008, at 01:32:29 (ZULU)

Insomnia like you wouldn't believe.

Tuesday I thanked the site's patrons for helping me learn to use a stock rifle to routinely call and hit 700+ yard shots in the field. CatDude said he did nothing. No, they did two things: They taught and they stimulated thought.

Here is one:

Kenton Industries makes custom windage and elevation turrets. Their windage turret (click) uses the following system:

The turret is marked in 100 yd increments. Each mark is the increment needed to adjust for a 10mph wind. Call that Y.

If the actual wind speed is not 10mph, calculate ((actual mph)/(10 mph))= S.

If the direction is not 3:00, use the following chart (mine is clear-taped inside my rear lens cap) to look up direction coefficient = D.

02:30 = .95

02:00 = .9

01:30 = .7

01:00 = .5

12:30 = .25

I calculated those numbers myself. They will do.

To use Kenton's turret, you multiply the yards distant by speed coefficient then multiply by direction coefficient. Y*S*D = yards to put on windage turret. Or, if it's easier to calculate, use Y*D*S. Same, same.

This .300 win has a Loopy scope with target turrets. Sierra's numbers were used to make a strip of paper that works exactly like Kenton Industries' turret scale. It is clear taped that to the Loopy's windage turret.

Using data from this rifle, I made something similar for the elevation turret.

For hunting use, it dials-in pretty quickly and - IF(!) your wind speed and direction estimates are good - is accurate enough.

Loopy makes blank turrets that can be engraved. I think I'll send off for some of them.

CDC'
Friday, October 31, 2008, at 10:43:54 (ZULU)

CDC...

>" Y*S*D = yards to put on windage turret. Or, if it's easier to calculate, use Y*D*S. "<

Oh no...

I went thru the 8th grade and I know that Y*S*D is NOT the same as Y*D*S.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, October 31, 2008, at 12:16:28 (ZULU)

Associative property of multiplication: A*B*C=(A*B)*C=A*(B*C)

Commutative " " " : A*B = B*A

so;

Y*S*D=Y*(S*D)=Y*(D*S)=Y*D*S.

You can use the windage turret as a calculator. Dial the yardage first then multiply the number on the dial using the direction coefficient. Multiply the number that is now on the dial by the speed coefficient.

CDC'
Friday, October 31, 2008, at 13:34:06 (ZULU)

I had two of the early Cooper rifles, a Fireball and a 308. The Fireball was amazingly accurate, but keeping it functioning properly was a problem, so I sold it. Still have the 308. That French Walnut is just tooooo beautiful..... Jewell trigger, stainless barrel... :8-)

Too bad Cooper wasn't more astute.

Lito, I've got students that, given x=a/b, and given 'x' and 'b', cannot find 'a'. But they have DAMNED fine calculators....

Duman
Friday, October 31, 2008, at 13:36:22 (ZULU)

CDC...

I hope that you knew I was kidding ;)

If not is not clear... I was kidding!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, October 31, 2008, at 15:59:09 (ZULU)

Then there's always the math of two variables, A and B (aka spotter and sniper)...and, when I had a certain spotter, A + B = Bite me, I'm only holding right a half mil:)) In another example, A/B = 23 MOA???? BS, it's nowhere near that far out:))

That workie til Bobby told me to shoot what she said anyway....

Cooper is off the list. I'd rather buy a norinco.

Horses are in my hay field...time to do some fencing again.

Joe M
Friday, October 31, 2008, at 16:31:56 (ZULU)

Joe,

Solar fence charger setups run $200, but they're well worth it!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, October 31, 2008, at 17:05:46 (ZULU)

And that A+B part really DID make for difficult shooting.

Imagine poor 'ol Sarge (Sarge was "poor 'ol Sarge" 'cause he had to deal with me spotting for him LOL!) and I trying to work the dope when we hear one of the instructors loudly stating that "BITE ME IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE WIND CALL".

It's hard to get a good clean trigger squeeze while laughing......

That class also had a live demonstration on alternative uses of beanie babies. It seems that if the shooters beanie baby has enough mass, it can have an aggressive inter-testicular relationship with your spotter.

I was glad not to be on that team!

(ETA: Duman, it was Knuckles propelling the beanie baby, and there ARE pics)

FWIW, I lost my first blank. Gasguns are bad about that. My second blank though, I've got as a trophy.

Bravo
Friday, October 31, 2008, at 20:00:27 (ZULU)

Jim, sent you a reply to your E-mail, check your spam folder. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Friday, October 31, 2008, at 20:35:53 (ZULU)

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