Sniper Country Duty Roster

Ken...

Actually...I would have voted for McCain, but I woulda held my nose when I pulled the lever :(((

Now, with this Palin gal, I'll be proud to vote that ticket...

If yo' is gonna beat on me, PLEASE don't use no steenkin Remington take-off barrel - I gots self respect!!

Where the hell is Marius.

I sent him an e-mail two or three weeks ago through SC and I haven't heard back??

I need to make a correction in the Remington trigger article.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, September 1, 2008, at 01:34:22 (ZULU)

'Lito "If yo' is gonna beat on me, PLEASE don't use no steenkin Remington take-off barrel - I gots self respect!!..."

I have acquired alot of my winchester tutilage from you, so I'll use a shot-out m70 barrel in your case :))

"Where the hell is Marius...."

Good question -- I dunno....

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Monday, September 1, 2008, at 03:58:51 (ZULU)

re: Remington take-off barrel

Is that anything like an ugly stick? {grin}

...internally microfluted tomato stake

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, September 1, 2008, at 17:27:49 (ZULU)

rod...

>"Is that anything like an ugly stick? {grin}

...internally microfluted tomato stake"<

Best laugh of the day :))))))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, September 1, 2008, at 23:33:23 (ZULU)

"...on Monday, U.S. forces formally handed control of a now largely peaceful Anbar to the Iraqi military. 'We are in the last 10 yards of this terrible fight. The goal is very near,' said Major-General John Kelly, commander of U.S. forces in Anbar, in a ceremony with U.S., Iraqi and tribal officials. Very few in the American media even noticed this remarkable victory."

Don't look for this story to be noticed much by the mainstream media - or by the hundreds of the brain-dead protesting the war at the Republican Convention.

Click on my name for the link.

Lindy
Creede, Colorado, U.S.A. - Tuesday, September 2, 2008, at 22:39:36 (ZULU)

CDC,

Was watching thew news tonight, and saw a piece on Parkinson's. It seems pedaling a bike at around 80 rpms will drastically reduce tremors. This was discovered by a doctor whane he entered in a tandem bike ride with a friend who had Parkinson's, when he noticed how much the tremors had gone away after they'd ridden a while, then stopped for a rest. They profiled one guy in the experiment who has taken to riding a stationary bike at home because he had noticed how well he was doing. Hope this is of some help to you.

Politics:

I'd rather see McCain as the VP and Governor hottie as the president. She seems to be the kinda chick that'll wade into a bar fight and start cleaning house. She's got my vote.

Charles,

You are forgiven for not ND'ing Obama. If you'd have shot his useless ass, Hillary would have a real shot at the presidency. Although I wouldn't mind seeing McCain's VP pick in a knock down, drag out, hair pullin' cat fight with her. Hillary would lose,

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 3, 2008, at 03:21:13 (ZULU)

Gents: Anyone know the skinny on "near mfg" bases? It appears that a recent aquisition--a FN-PBR 24" fluted barrel (1:12) stuffed into a full length aluminum bedding block hogue stock--has this base on it. Need to know if this base is serviceable enough for hunting duty with a 30mm burris xtreme sitting on top:))

Lindy: Ain't that something? A few years back, a different Marine General once famously proclaimed the whole of Anbar as "Lost." This is a bad example (as it was a Marine, after all)--but my main gripe was the senior tier leadership within the army; a group that with few exceptions was wholly unprepared for an enemy that did not act like the one that they wanted to fight--indeed, spent their whole life expecting to fight. I watched as good damned advice was dismissed--mainly because the messenger wore a funny hat and was despised by these asshats. As I've said before--CENTCOM, CJTF-7 and CFLCC spent many months denying and then debating "whether there was an insurgency" in Iraq---and conequently, doing nothing to combat it all the while. Amazing. The up-side is that we now have REAL combat troops growing up with the knowledge of what works earned the hard way, and the knowledge of what does not--also learned the hard way from bad examples above them. The future my son will inherit will be a bright one because of this experience. Hell, we have far, far more multi-tour vets this time around than we had from the 'Nam. And, they're sticking around! Now, if we can only avoid a Clintonesque style draw down under an Obama administration (Charles--shoot me if this happens!)--we'll be just fine for a decade or two.

Ken: Make no mistake--I woulda hated to vote for Mcstain. But this lil' chippy he conjoured up outta Alaska is my kinda gal, too; CDC--get in line! If only to launch her chances down the road--I'm back in the voting mode, and will volunteer locally with the Repubs again. She is my kinda politico thru and thru. And, a hottie to boot. Paraphrase from an editorial: "She's the kind who is fine with allowing 'her man' to shoot the bear, but will pick up the rifle if he fails or falls just as readily." That is the natural endstate of feminisim; and she nails it on the states over the fed issue too. For all Mcstain's faults--he outdid himself with her. Something about a blind squirrel maybe...?

Lito: A prediction; Biden cannot debate Palin without coming across as an un-gentlemanly ungracious ass---thus turning off every split tail voter between NY and LA (exclusive, of course). I just can see it now...and I'm betting Obama's camp does too. Doesn't matter that they know it will happen, they can't stop it--cuz Biden is one of those morons who cannot help himself!

And, I find it unbelievable that Obama would even bring up her experience as being less than his own!!! That is shining a light into his own closet full of empty suits. He doesn't even have enough experience hidden away to make a bone, let alone a skeleton. WTF is he thinking? Did he buy into the rock-star savior crap? Went to his head? Maybe we are that lucky...

Oh, and it does not matter if you vote for McCain/ Palin on issues like, say, an aversion to communism--the left is already telling ya you are racist and can't wait to get in your face about it. This will get worse as we go, just watch. If Obama loses, some idiot in Philly predicts "a race war." My prediction: The more they tell someone they are racist, the more likely the vote goes against Obama. Nobody likes to be called names unjustly, and this tactic will not just backfire--but will explode in their faces as they overplay that stupid race-card for no damned reason at all. It actually will reinforce that connection to his Black separtist/ counter-racist church he no longer wants in his life.

My, how interesting things get on the turn of a name...

Joe M
Wednesday, September 3, 2008, at 22:42:35 (ZULU)

Joe,

Where the hell does Obama get the balls to say Palin lacks experience? She's been running a state, while he's only been running his mouth! The son of a bitch seems to think he deserves applause for voting "present".

As for the racism thing, I hear ya, man. I don't know how many times I've been all but outright accused of racism for being a white guy with the wrong accent, a neat, clean appearance, and acting like I was raised in the country.(which I was) Sometimes, I quite literally HAVE been accused of being racist, simply because I refused to assimilate with the trash I was surrounded with.

Hell, one time, another guy and myself were discussing hunting dogs while riding in a van with two black guys. One was just a plain old normal guy, who happened to be black. A real good guy I'd had many a conversation with, who I'd welcome in my home. The other guy was your typical black guy on a mission. I know damn well he heard the whole conversation, and knew we were discussing hunting over hounds, but he just had to blow up when I said I'd always wanted to hunt coons, but never knew anyone with some hounds! Called me a sick son of a bitch, blah, blah... I hate that shit.

On another occasion, I was asked to go out and seperate the staff into two groups; I went out, stood in the middle of the crowd, and asked "you people" to please stand in a group over here, and "you people" to stand over there. I had just called the ENTIRE GROUP "you people". Yeah, you guessed it. And guess who their ringleader was.

I guess I should be happy nobody had Jesse Jackson on speed dial. Apparently, it's a crime to be a clean cut white guy. It seems that our liberal education system is bent on indoctrinating our children to feel a certain amount of guilt over being born white. That should be a crime, in it's own right.

I'm not Jesus, and neither is my kid. We shouldn't be forced to pay for our forefathers' sins. Just because some groups choose to pick Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, John Wayne, or the men who fertilized the tree of liberty with their own blood for heroes, and others choose to pick thugs who brag about mistreating women, victimising others, flaunting the law, using drugs, and making their money by stealing from their own families, doesn't mean the former should be forced to pay for the latter's unwillingness to work for what they want.

Well, I've not slept in about 30 hours or so, and the old ADHD is kicking in, so I'm probably rambling. Good to hear from some of y'all I haven't heard from in a while. Dove season just opened here, and I hope you guys get to get out and enjoy some beautiful fall weather.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 3, 2008, at 23:25:37 (ZULU)

Guys,

While I'm puttering around, recuperating from spinal fusion, I keep dreaming of the hunts I intend to go on when I finally get in good enough shape to make them. I was daydreaming of an Alaskan sheep hunt while reading an article that mentioned something about the AR's benefits, one of them being light weight.

What do you guys think of an AR, possibly in .308, for a sheep rifle?

It'd be lightweight enough, the collapsible stock would be fucking awesome when climbing, where the awkward length of a full size rifle feels about as ridiculous as clown shoes on a ballet dancer, and it would be an absolute godsend to have a shorter balance point on your rifle during an endless deathmarch across frozen shale slopes.

I'd obviously be carrying either a very seriously hot loaded .45 Colt(Since I shoot my .45 Colts more than anything else), a .460, or similar for protection against predators or deranged sheep guides who have reached their wits' end waiting for a cripple from the flattest state in the lower 48 to wheeze his ass up the slope before the spring thaw.

I'm also beginning to dabble in long range handgunning, so a handgun shot at a sheep I'll never see twice could be a real possibility. (Elmer Keith's writing has helped me through the recovery process) The handgun would obviously not be my choice of weapons, unless an old billy's decided to include me in his turf war when I'm standing on an icy foothold the size of a Copenhagen can.

How would the AR function in that arctic climate? I remember, some time back, one of you guys was trying to freeze to death, in order to find out how cold you had to get your rifle before it crapped out, and to gather data. Would I be O.K. if I completely degreased the action and used lithium grease or graphite, or am I just jerking off, here?

Also, what about my choice of caliber? I'm picking on the .308 because of it's accuracy and caliber, and the fact that I've been wanting one for the last two or three years.

I don't know dick about sheep hunting, other than it takes place in really vicious, beautiful country I'd be happy to die in. What kinda calibers do the guys that aren't pimping rifles for a magazine suggest?

What do you guys suggest for optics? I was kinda thinking a fixed 7 or 8X would be just about right, since a fixed power scope would have no moving parts to fuck up. I like my 6X just fine for deer and coyotes in Kansas, but I think I might need another X or two up on the mountain.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 02:26:28 (ZULU)

After watching Governer Palin's speech it is easy to see why the Old Media and the other Leftist hacks wanted to throttle her before she broke out. Obama is in trouble.

CDC'
Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 04:51:49 (ZULU)

Travis,

Not sure wich AR or variant your considering but one thing I can say without a doubt a DPMS LR-308 is anything but light.A Magpul PRS stock did alot to help counterbalance the 24in SS Bull Barrel but throw in a full mag,scope and some Badger Rings and I am around 15lbs.

Up in NW Wisconsin where I deer hunt it can get pretty cool for temps,maybe not Alaskan cold,but it is still cold.I never had good luck w/graphite stayin where its supposed too,as well never been a big believer in grease either.I use Hoppes #9 Oil.Couple drops here and there,collect excess w/ a Q-tip or gunrag.

I cant tell ya the advantages of Armalite,Rock,or Bushmaster over a DPMS as once I had mine it was look no further.I have been very happy with mine.I do know one advantage is... if the .308 were to be "too much" another upper chambered in .243 or .260 is a 2 pin swap over,and can use the same .308 mags.I dont know if this can be done with the other brands or not.Like I said I havent paid attention to what other calibers Brand XYZ offers.

Mags....DPMS also offers 4rd and 10rd as well as the 19rd mags.Again cant tell ya what the other guy has.

If your drivin...If ya havent done so,Check the transport laws of the States your drivin thru,Cant say for sure but some may not like high cap mags.Some have goofy little laws.And if it avoids a run in with Super Trooper(you know the type......He is so cool he wears the mirrors on the inside of his sunglasses)its worth the checkin.

AR's are fun to hunt with...but all the metal makes them damn cold to hang onto....pack/use the GOOD gloves.

Happy Huntin

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 08:56:27 (ZULU)

Travis

If your thinking about getting into handgun hunting. I'd think real hard about the 454 Casull. I have one and love it. I also have a 475 Linebaugh i like it but it is a little much. You don't go out and put 50 rds. through it at the range at one setting.

Gary Kaney
NW, ILL, - Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 12:02:22 (ZULU)

Travis - re: AR pattern rifles and cold.

I've shot my AR15 in -15C with TetraGun lube w/o issues. I'm moving to Ballistol as a less toxic substitute. The AR pattern does better with oils than grease.

Tetragun liquid is rated down to -73C

Ballistol is rated down to -50C

Break Free CLP -All the various grades of CLP come under the specification Mil-L-63460, and you may see it with the suffix letters A through D, depending upon temperature range and

viscocity.

Just be careful to pick a lube compatible with your ambient temperature goals and you should be fine.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 16:50:09 (ZULU)

Travis:

If you're driving to Alaska thru Canada, forget the AR pattern rifle. In Canadian law it's the same category as handguns, and there are many hoops a non-resident would have to jump thru to bring such into Canada even temporarily. (The standard answer is you can't, but of course the reality is just *much* more complicated.)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 16:56:41 (ZULU)

UnPat: Common seasons in Alaska is September for most big game, though there are spring options as well. These hunts are not so cold, as far as the "Alaskan scales of cold" go:)) Only those resident-only february hunts in the Yukon will test lubes--and graphite was the only way to go. I learned that the hard way...my riffle became an expensive walking stick as I unzipped, unbuttoned and de-velcroed all the layers to get to my 629. Gotta love a revolver in 70-below when the wolves come a callin'. But, these one-off dead'o winter hunts aren't for the lower 48 types; not that ya can't handle it---just that they won't give ya a permit:))

AR pattern: That 24" HB pipe is not the choice I'd make for a general duty (hunting) 308. DPMS makes several barrel profiles and lengths for this style of rifle--and a couple would carry quite well. FWIW, my .260LR is a boat anchor glued on the far end of a lite-wt fishing pole! "Front heavy" begins to describe it, and "freakin' heavy" finishes the description. These are porch queens. (or bench...whatever...we had a porch on the Curry range back in the day). All that said--I would not recommend any of these AR patterns for an Alaskan hunt. If I could only take one stick in---I'd choose a 300WM bolt action---but that is the absolutely lightest round recommended for every thing walking land. A better choice is 300wby and up. .375HH is still king, BTW.

As for bighorn, a variable is NOT a bad idea (understatement alert). Here's another thought: I can run under 14 minutes for 2 miles still, and bang out 100 push ups in 2 minutes...and I would say that I am NOT anywhere near ready for a Wrangell/ St Elias Mountains' sheep hunt. Hardest thing I've done outside of Afghanistan is chase damned bighorns over those "hills." Some shots can be on your ridge (oh the luck) or across a valley. You MUST be able to determine full curl from 7/8ths curl to be legal. Not enough glass could screw you out of a shot, just as could too much glass. A variable is a must for the money that tag will cost you, IMHO. My 2-7x was too low powered for what I really needed and I missed out for it. I'd want at least 12x power on the upper end.

joe m
Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 18:05:52 (ZULU)

Just thought I would pop in and say I am a new dad, We had him back on the 16Th and everything went good. He was 7lbs 8oz and 20" long, and we named him Samuel Jonathan. I haven't been avoiding this site just real busy. Take care.

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 18:45:48 (ZULU)

Travis, Joe is spot on about the physical toughness of a sheep hunt and the caliber of rifle and optics. I used to live in Fairbanks and Palmer ,Ak. I traveled past some sheep hunting mountains of loose shale, most always socked in with wind and rain and low temps. This is for an August hunt(fall).It is the toughest hunt in North America, and very expensive for a non resident(must hire a guide).

Fred Hartman
Toledo, Ohio, USA - Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 19:50:05 (ZULU)

Congrats Jon..

medicjim
Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 21:00:20 (ZULU)

Jon: It's OK to gloat...it's OK to bask in your glory...it is all fine; you are the man! Enjoy every minute of family time God grants ya. And come by to brag anytime the mood strikes. We should see a whole lot of ya if you do this:)) So: Congrats, Dad...and that moniker is the best one any of us could have. I suspect everyone here enjoys the many, many challenges of living up to all that it implies, too. So, feel free to tell us all about your family--not just your guns or shooting. It is, after all, why "guns" have a use. Ya know---food, protection, respect...see how it entwines? Fatherhood is directly on topic, IMHO.

Joe M
Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 21:13:26 (ZULU)

Thanks guys,

I kinda feel bad I have not fired any of my rifles since April. Last weekend I had to bust out the numbers for the safe cause I forget. But I do have a good reason. And on the upside I'm saving tons of cash so next year I get A LOT of bullets and powder.

Jon Kujawa
Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 22:08:04 (ZULU)

Jon-K...

Congratulations - enjoy ALL of it NOW (including the diapers), it goes fast. Five years ago, by son was two - now he is sixteen and is growing a beard (on the weekends - it goes off every Monday morning)

:)))

Joe M...

You are dead right - Biden is such a punk that putting him on the same stage with Palin will make him look like a Brooklyn bar bouncer. Biden said he likes to "bloody someone's nose"... well, go ahead, asshole - do it infront of the whole country - I tripple dare you!!

And since when is the democratic party picking an empty suit for president and then giving him training wheels for a vice president... isn't it supposed to be the other way around - the vice president is in training to take over after the first chair retires in 8 years???????

This campaign was putting me to sleep for the last two years, but now it has turned out to be the best election since 94...

Newtie - DUDE - you gotta LOVE it!!!!!!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 22:48:43 (ZULU)

While we're bragging...

Got a new granddaughter. 7# 2oz. 19 3/4" and born on 8-22. Hope she's another Sarah Palin...

Congratulations, Jon K.

I'd like to have this T-shirt made. "Gov. Sarah Palin; Twice the Man as Hussein Obama" Any other suggestons?

My faith is renewed in McCain. Shows he can make the right decision for the right reason. Sarah has single-handedly turned this election around. She represents what Republicans WERE supposed to represent. I am looking forward to this...and almost feel sorry for Joe Biden.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, September 4, 2008, at 23:48:43 (ZULU)

MK4...

>" Sarah has single-handedly turned this election around. She represents what Republicans WERE supposed to represent. I am looking forward to this...and almost feel sorry for Joe Biden."<

Yup - that's very well said - she IS a classical conservative/Republican.

Joe Biden is such a worn out wanna bee - I think he has run in the presidential primaries every 4 years since the Korean war... and its always the same thing - he gets 1% of the vote and drops out in first or second cut.

The guy is pure and simply a SCHMUCK, and everyone on both sides hates the asshole. He a crude lowlife.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, September 5, 2008, at 00:19:25 (ZULU)

Unpat,

The LR-308 was just what I had in mind, but I'm open to suggestions from the BTDT crowd. For hunting, I think a 4-6 rd. mag would be about right for hunting. Anything else would give the guide the idea that I'm planning to spray and pray.

On traveling, I was thinking I'd ship most of my gear well ahead of me.

Gary,

I've thought about one of the high end revolvers, but I really don't plan to use a handgun past 100 yards on game, unless I'm outta rifle ammo, or my rifle jams when I need to make a follow up shot. I really feel that a handgun is just an ambush weapon with longer range possibilties.

Joe M.,

What kinda ranges would you say I need to expect to be able to identify/shoot from, realistically, for this hunt? What barrel length would you suggest? It seems like I read some studies that said an 18" barrel would be just as good as a 22", and better than a 24". What's your opinion? Also, what's your opinion on the .308 for sheep and goats?

Jon,

Congrats! Being a Dad is one of the coolest adventures I've been on.

.....how the FUCK do you have a kid AND save money? I'm sure we'd all like to hear that one!

Fred,

I pretty much expect to damn near kill myself, just getting ready. If I can figure out how to get a gig in the area I plan to hunt for 6 months or so before the hunt that will allow me to train like I want to, I'll be able to scout and get myself where I need to be, physically, PLUS, I won't have to hire a guide for the cost of a new pickup!

Anyone else notice that a couple days ago, the media was saying Gov. Palin didn't know wtf she was doing, but as soon as she hands Osama his nuts on a plate, they start referring to her as a "Washington insider"?

The two faced bitches in the media need to just report the facts, and quit relaying opinions from supposed "experts" with no actual experience, whom nobody has ever heard of.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, September 5, 2008, at 07:04:25 (ZULU)

Obama on O'Rielly; “I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,” Obama said while refusing to retract his initial opposition to the surge. “I’ve already said it’s succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.”

I hate to quibble with The Styrofoam Messiah, but - in Senate hearings - McCain argued that a troop surge would cause exactly that success. It was on C-Span.

CDC'
Friday, September 5, 2008, at 12:28:03 (ZULU)

Travis: I saw nothing on my side of about 700 yards, and that was in poor vis, where i couldn't tll if they had horns let along full curls. A range finder---one that gets ya at least to 800, is a must. Some of those "ridge to ridge" shots are very hard to estimate on distance. Even with a map. 308? It could work, but I was happy with a 300wm. A 7mm would be about perfect, IMHO. These are also used by some to take moose as well...but I watched an ugly wounding of one with 7mm.

I watched McCain's speech, and the "vet" thing really impressed me. Kinda made me believe he was trustworthy on the level of "come by and pick up my kids" trustworthy. Hmmmm.

Joe M
Friday, September 5, 2008, at 13:36:47 (ZULU)

I'm not sure Mrs. Palin is more of a man than "O", but she definately has bigger......balls.

Good for a snicker http://rightvoices.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/worshipme.jpg

There's another site that notes similarity between the setting of his acceptance speech and the Nuremburg Rallies site. "Ein Reich, ein Volk!" Oops.....wrong speech.

WR Moore
Friday, September 5, 2008, at 13:54:11 (ZULU)

WR Moore...

>"I'm not sure Mrs. Palin is more of a man than "O", but she definately has bigger......balls."<

Yeah, and they are higher up :))))))))))))))))))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, September 5, 2008, at 15:00:29 (ZULU)

Travis:

FWIW, my choice would be 7mm Rem mag in a nice bolt gun for chasing rams in the Alaskan mountains. Even so, a good rangefinder would be very helpful. Small estimation error makes a big difference in elevation once you get beyond (say) 400 meters.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, September 5, 2008, at 16:31:45 (ZULU)

Travis,

Take a look at the LR338L.Its lighter,then anything in the LR308 line up.Cant speak for the ballistics of the .338Federal.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Friday, September 5, 2008, at 19:03:48 (ZULU)

Gents: Bravo said the Near base is a decent one...good enough for me. It'll stay around:)) I picked up the FN PBR/XP today (when i negotiated the trade/cash deal for the M21, I had my harley---Wisconsin may be "hunter friendly, but strapping a green rifle over the shoulder might be over the top illegal:))); seems like a reasonably well made mid-weight. Think Sendero or Coyote for comparisons. I need to scare up some glass and get to shooting...since the deal also included a case of BH 168SMKs, another pink rifle...and a grand for harley parts. It was a really nice M21...with the most beautiful walnut I've ever seen on a Mil-style weapon (and many high end bolters, too). But that was precisely why it needed to go...I want a rack grade to beat up.

click for the propaganda page--the one I just got is the 24" varient.

Joe M
Friday, September 5, 2008, at 22:51:16 (ZULU)

Joe,

Used to strap the Bennelli SBE to the Shovel all the time,went from Milwaukee County to Mid Racine County where the Trap Range is,had to ride past the scales where the State Boys always have a few cars sittin.Rode from Milwaukee to Florence Wi via Iron Mt Michigan to go Grouse huntin a few times,Along with runnin from Milwaukee to Walworth County to go Goose huntin......Never once got stopped or questioned.As long as its cased and unloaded nobody raises a fuss.Carring a loaded mag in your pocket can get ya a ticket,tho.For some reason they see a loaded mag the same as transporting a loaded gun.

***********

Got a real stroke of luck tonight.

Yesterday it rained all day and most of the night,Ran the Shovel into work anyway.Its only 9 miles from home to work.

This afternoon when I went to leave,I had this little voice tellin me...."Lube the Chain".Figured after runnin in the rain a shot of juice cant hurt it.Looked at c/phone's clock and I was runnin a couple minutes late,and thinkin I dont have time to lube the chain....Lil' voice gets louder...

So,I grabbed the can of lube,started sprayin the sections I could get at,rolled the bike back to hit the next section....What I saw next stopped me cold...The clip for the master link was missin.

First stop tomorrow is Farm and Barn,I know the Greedy Bastards M/C aint gonna have a masterlink for 530 chain,since they all went to belts.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi., USA - Saturday, September 6, 2008, at 04:27:18 (ZULU)

Travis: Consider a 7mm WSM with 160 grain Accubonds.

CDC'
Saturday, September 6, 2008, at 04:38:44 (ZULU)

Clicky. Interesting article on presidential candidates' stated intent to violate their oath of office.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, September 6, 2008, at 06:51:03 (ZULU)

Unpat:

Glad you listened to your little voice. Would not have been pretty...

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, September 6, 2008, at 10:52:29 (ZULU)

Gotta love them little voices...

I often wonder if it's the same voice that got us in so much trouble when we were teenagers? Maybe he's trying to make up for it?

medicjim
Saturday, September 6, 2008, at 13:55:19 (ZULU)

Hmmmm. The remains of Hurricaine Jenna are due here in a few hours and I walk out of the house and look up to find two dozen vultures sitting on my roof.

Do they know something I don't?

medicjim
Saturday, September 6, 2008, at 16:01:51 (ZULU)

Election stuff,

After watching Denver get turned upside down for the Styrofoam Messiah (LOL!), I was really down. Not just because the 'security' really wrenched-up the city, but because it was still McCain vs. a charismatic talking head and his geriatric sidekick.

When I first heard about Palin, I thought McCain handed the election to Obama Joe. After hearing her speak, and reading her credentials, I'm convinced McCain hit this one out of the park. I'm not convinced she'll win-over as many women as hoped, but it solidified my confidence that the republicans can win.

Although, I have to wonder about her future son-in-law. It takes some real balls to knock-up the Governor's daughter....

Duman
Saturday, September 6, 2008, at 16:06:44 (ZULU)

Duman...

>"It takes some real balls to knock-up the Governor's daughter...."<

I don't think he'd want to do it to Arnold Schwarzenegger's daughter ;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, September 6, 2008, at 18:25:49 (ZULU)

'Lito,

"I don't think hed want to do it to Arnold Schwarzenegger's daughter ;)"

Hmmm: a deserved beating from a muscle-bound Dad, or the ire of a vindictive woman... I'll take the beating, at least we could have a beer together afterwards. ...at least there'd BE an afterwards.

But then you know all this doncha. ;-)

SSG Mac
Saturday, September 6, 2008, at 20:39:43 (ZULU)

I'd rather face Arnie than Todd Palin. Arnie fakes it. Palin doesn't. Click.

CDC'
Saturday, September 6, 2008, at 21:49:09 (ZULU)

Hey Jim,

Them vultures is just hunting for some democrats that took a flying leap over the palin/mcain ticket.... Them democrats ain't dropping in the streets down this way yet but they sure are foaming at the mouth....

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Saturday, September 6, 2008, at 22:19:53 (ZULU)

MedicJim,

Trade ya a masterlink for them Vultures.Got spares now.I'll take Vultures on my roof over Owls.

Rod,

Seen some busted eng/trans cases,locked up rear wheels.....Your right it wouldnt have been pretty.

.....

Gotta agree with Mac....Few thumps an lumps and a beer all is cool...might even get in a few licks.But dealin with a ticked off woman...I would sooner push my Shovel 5 miles.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Sunday, September 7, 2008, at 02:17:39 (ZULU)

Travis

What CDC said about the 7mm WSM. Bought one from him.

Gary Kaney
NW, ILL, - Sunday, September 7, 2008, at 11:42:51 (ZULU)

Harley Woes....

Bought an FXR from a friend (baaad idea) and have spent a lot of time working on it. I've never before had equipment that actually dis-assembles itself over time.

Last week, I was about to take a trip, noticed something odd. Looked closely, the swing-arm bolt was backing out. The retaining nut came off. Coulda been bad.

Yesterday, the oil filter assembly retaining bolt came out, and the filter was dragging, held on by the oil lines. I left a spill that woulda made Captain Hazelwood proud.

That BMW is looking better all the time....

Duman
Sunday, September 7, 2008, at 14:25:07 (ZULU)

Motorcycle country: I used to have a BSA 441 Victor, AKA "thumper", a single-cylinder dual-purpose bike. It didn't really ride down the road - it hopped when the plug fired. It was almost necessary to carry a spanner in one hand when riding, to tighten up the bits as they came loose.

My last two motorcycles were BMWs.

Lindy
Creede, Colorado, U.S.A. - Sunday, September 7, 2008, at 15:09:37 (ZULU)

"it hopped when the plug fired."

Lindy,I am glad there was a garbage bucket handy.I read this over the first cup.Better the garbage then my monitor.I forgot those really did do that.... along with a few other things.

Duman,Glad to hear ya found that.That would have been ugly.A buddy of mine takes his new Ulcer(ultra) Glide in for the 500 mile check up.The tech that worked on it stripped the nut that is on the end of the swing arm pivot bolt and left the floor board loose,and didnt say anything.My buddy picks up the bike,rides off.He gets a mile from his house and he cant hold it in a straight line.Limps it the last mile home,calls me to take a look.Find the prob,Call the dealer.They came and got it.

******

When I was at Farm and Barn,picked up a fuel filter for Angels Explorer.As she puts it,...Its Buckin when I try to pass someone.Swap out the filter.Outta curiosity drained some of the gas from it into a clear cup.Its sorta muddy lookin.Tried blowin thru it,got some more out,a few seconds later I licked my lips....Its Sweet....That aint good.Opened up the filter...its packed full w/a fine white-ish powder.Heated some water up in the microwave and scraped the powder into the water....it dissolves.Damnn....Sugar.

I wonder ?? Could it be the "Obama Blows Goats and Hitlery" sticker I made?

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Sunday, September 7, 2008, at 18:33:07 (ZULU)

UnPat: Might wanna use a more definitive test for sugar---damn-near everything will disolve in water! It is one heck of a solvent!

Joe M
Monday, September 8, 2008, at 00:18:22 (ZULU)

Unpat - http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Benedicts-Solution-4oz-P6408C670.aspx

Sugar does not dissolve in gasoline...

there is more to it, email me through the roster if you would like more info

medicjim
Monday, September 8, 2008, at 01:47:01 (ZULU)

Vultures:

I was riding colts for a guy that was keeping them across the road from a really old cemetary out in the middle of nowhere. Since it was near a creek, in a low lying area, it was humid as hell down there, so I tried to get saddled up and riding by daylight, and done before it got too hot.

Every morning, there'd be a flock of vultures perched on the tombstones. It was creepy as hell.

CDC & Gary,

I'd considered a 7mm magnum before, because of the super flat trajectory, but have no real experience with it, nor have I messed with the short mags. I suppose the shorter bolt throw would be a godsend on anything as long as a .300 or 7mm mag. Is there any cartridge suitable for big game with a trajectory flatter than the 7mm mag?

Also, how brutal would one of these short magnum calibers be in a rifle lightweight enough for a sheep hunt? Would it still be as brutal as I think it is, if I were to use a good recoil pad? I want the power and trajectory to get there and get the job done, but I want to be able to shoot it enough to get damn good with it, without ruining my shoulder. I'm a big enough guy to take the recoil, I'm just sick of my body parts trying to fall off! Between the spinal surgery I'm just getting over, and the two wrist surgeries I'm looking at, I'm gonna be off of surgery for a while!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, September 8, 2008, at 03:58:00 (ZULU)

Jim,Joe

Agreed,the use of hot water isnt the most conclusive.That and my taste buds were about all I had to work with.I hadnt had any beverages to drink while workin,and I was pretty sure the injectors sit in the intake ports and dont seal thru the water jacket like the big diesels(injector cups)do.So coolant contamination from the return side isnt likely.Checkin the manual later confirmed this.

The milky greyish residual that I blew out of the filter had a real fine grit when rubbed between the fingers.Almost like real fine cement mortar.In fact what I blew out of the filter sorta reminded me of cement cream.There wasnt any water seperation from what I drained out of filter after lettin sit.

Hot water wont break down any sand,rust,dirt that could have been in the bottom of a stations tanks and sucked up during a fuel up.Maybe in years and years but not in a 2 minute quick kitchen test.

Gasoline wont break down sugar.....But alcohol does.The more I think on it,the more I think it was powdered sugar that was used.

MedicJim,

Rostermail inbound.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Monday, September 8, 2008, at 04:03:42 (ZULU)

Travis: Earlier this year I posted some techniques for managing recoil. Most were shamlessly stolen from Rick, Jim Carmichael, a excruciatingly detailed Russian manual, etc. If you - or anybody else - is interested, I'd be happy to repost the pertinent parts and to discuss it in greater detail.

CDC'
Monday, September 8, 2008, at 04:44:54 (ZULU)

CDC,

If it's not too much trouble, I'd sure read it, if you wouldn't mind posting it again. Did you ask your Dr. about that Parkinson's study that uses bicycling?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, September 8, 2008, at 04:50:03 (ZULU)

Travis

Badger Ordnance sells a removable muzzle break. G.A. Precision installs them. 200 bucks if i remember right.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Monday, September 8, 2008, at 10:37:13 (ZULU)

Travis - CDC and Gary are dead on....I have a 7WSM built on a win 70 coyote reciever...about a #5 contour barrel. I put the Badger FTE brake on it. The recoil on that rifle is MUCH less than my #7 contour .260.... I'm not kidding. The 7WSM is very flat shooting with ~ 160 pills and will likely put sheep down plenty good.

That Badger brake is very good voodoo.

medicjim
subliminal "good"... you don't see this <g> , - Monday, September 8, 2008, at 13:49:12 (ZULU)

re: practice w/ 7mm WSM

The brake would seem to be an excellent idea. What about a similar dimension "cap" for field usage that could be swapped out afterwards. Would this permit shooting the same zero?

Or does the Badger Ord brake version have an "on/off" mode?

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, September 8, 2008, at 16:34:04 (ZULU)

The FTE brake does not have an 'off" mode, I do have a blind cap that is used to cover the threads when the brake is off. The FTE brake does not need "timed" threads as it has a "clamp" that allows you to lock the threads in place

medicjim
Monday, September 8, 2008, at 17:49:20 (ZULU)

Gents: I'd pay big bucks to hear Cheney say, "What Obama's essentially saying is that you NEED more experience to be the VP than you need to be the President...now you don't want 8 more years of THAT, do you?" Gawd...that'd be funny. And it would use the "more of the same" argument right back at "hizIslamicFaith-ef-ed-ness". Priceless.

(I watched Cheney discussing this...and for a second, I thought he was going here:))

Joe M
Tuesday, September 9, 2008, at 01:15:47 (ZULU)

On managing recoil:

The right (duh) cheek is placed on the comb at the same place every time. The muscles in the back of the neck are relaxed to allow the weight of the shooter's head to completely rest on the rifle. This does three (maybe) important things; It increases the effective weight of the rifle. Turning an 8lb rifle in to a 16lb rifle reduces recoil. Resting your cheek on the comb keeps the rifle from getting a running start before it whacks you in the face so your head and the rifle recoil as a unit.

You don't want the rifle to whack you in the face. If it does, your body will involuntarily learn to anticipate the shot. That is a flinch which I'll define as any reaction to the trigger press that interferes with the shooter seeing the crosshairs on the point of aim through the fall of the firing pin. A flinch is a conditioned response that develops from an unconditioned reflex.

"Press->bang->blink and tighten up

becomes "press->blink and tighten up."

It is just like Pavlov's dog.

To decondition yourself you dryfire like your life depends on every shot then shoot a bunch with a wimpy rifle that feels like your real rifle. Using a muzzle brake - along with the best ear protection you can find - for practice looks like the same kind of deal.

(Added next day) In order to rest the cheek on the comb, the comb must be the right height. A padded comb helps a bunch. A Scope-EZE pad is made of Sorbothane and is one solution. You have to take it off to clean the rifle so I duct tape the things on. Nothing but class.

You don't want the rifle to get a running start before it punches your shoulder and you want the rifle to punch your shoulder where it doesn't hurt. Again, this is not avoid discomfort just for the sake of avoiding discomfort; It is to avoid associating pain with the press of the trigger. We want to avoid the click => flinch conditioned response.

More later.

CDC'
Tuesday, September 9, 2008, at 06:34:22 (ZULU)

Charles: A familiar story- I'm headlong into a blind side divorce, akin to your problems a while back (IIRC). Been here before, so I know that once the wife is solely focused only on reasons to split--it is over. For all my stated faults many months back, these were addressed and altered accordingly---but that was never the issue all along. It is deeper and funnier, really. I'm retired, and she is trying to hook a career....and resents the hell out of it, making me the subject for her anger predicate (and I also realize that this is short term stuff...but she doesn't). As for the blind side, it is par for the course with her: One day, she's a cop...or a photog...or a truck driver...a college student orienting on biology/ medical--no wait, it's engineering. All of course are out-of-the-blue "right now" decisions as far as outside observers are concerned. In short, she mulls things to herself, then drops bombshells as done-deals. No sense in wringing hands over this, either: she is a great mom, and I'll just be moving on to god-knows where. It is all very cordial, so far...

Joe M
Tuesday, September 9, 2008, at 14:30:09 (ZULU)

Joe M.

Sorry to hear that! Been there, been trough it... Sucks!

Larry (Sharon)

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Tuesday, September 9, 2008, at 15:02:29 (ZULU)

To everyone out there: Hey Gents I'm finally Back

Joe M Near makes great stuff. Don't know if you got my letter. Only problem I know of is that they look a little too nice to go on a "Rack Gun" or tacticle. Don't own any of their rings, but they can make pretty much anything you want in a base. Canada shipping to USA is a drag too. I'm holding a 10MOA winM70 SA base for Richard untill he sells it just to keep from having to ship it back across the border and then back again. He is an extreamly nice guy to deal with and will work with you to make anything you might need. Not to mention a pretty good long distance shooter.

Motor Cycle country: My 50 Pan should be through this week after 2 years in the shop. Should have done the work myself but two years ago thought it'd only take a month and it was in the middle of flying season. Picking up a Electra Glide Ultra Clasic after this season ends for good just to take on road trips.

Scope Country: now that the Night Force craze is in full swing and there's more of them out on the market, What's the latest opinion compared to Leupold and the other high enders. Gotta buy something in the next month in 3.5/6 X 15/20 power.

338LM: What's the latest news on who makes the best affordable "2500-6000" Rifle. I've been considering the TRG and the Mac.

Hope everyone's ding well. Anyone who isn't, I hope it gets better.

JC: It's time to go shooting, and I need to get a couple of cheek pads made. I'll drop you a line.

Cooper

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2008, at 16:03:16 (ZULU)

Joe - agreed, God knows where. But I've got a danged good hint.

Just don't try to keep up with Morgue. I've come to the conclusion he's like NASCAR - fun to watch and keep track of, not for me to emulate (GRIN)

OK, so I’m gonna ask for recommendations.

First off, I need some kydex stuff molded. Anyone know of someone that’s not afraid to try molding kydex?

Specifically, I’m looking for someone to make me some belt-mounted pouches. One for a compass, one for a Gerber multi-tool, and then the common double pistol mag and pistol mag / flashlight combo – but molded for MY flashlight, and the two CLOSE together.

Colors less obnoxious than flat black would be a bonus (GRIN)

Second off, anyone know of some MOLLE pistol mag pouches that secure the mag with those little bungee cords instead of a flap? I’m looking for just singles at this point. I’d prefer ones that have enough of my mag exposed that I can get a hand on ‘em.

Bravo
Tuesday, September 9, 2008, at 16:04:24 (ZULU)

Joe:

sorry to hear about the pending divorce. You've already had your quota :-(

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, September 9, 2008, at 16:26:40 (ZULU)

Joe, Sorry to hear this.That Sucks.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2008, at 17:30:56 (ZULU)

Joe,

I totally understand and my heart goes out to you. I am in the middle of one as well. After 16 years of marriage my wife decided to try to find "true love" while she was still "young enough an pretty enough" to capture it.

So I have my two boys 99.5% of the time while she works through her midlife identity issues... Almost funny, but a little pathetic at the same time. I keep marching on, taking care of my boys (13 and 10 year old), working, and paying bills...

Butthe good thing is that I have the house, my boys, and my dogs!

It will all eventually work out. Hang in there...

Michael

Michael
Los Gatos, CA, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2008, at 18:36:45 (ZULU)

Joe M.,

What a bite in the butt! Hope it stays cordial. If you need a place to crash in my AO you're always welcome.

Good luck & Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, September 9, 2008, at 21:00:39 (ZULU)

Joe M,

I am so sorry to here, hope thing work out for you.

JLU

Joe Udelhofen
Oconomowoc, WI, USA - Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 00:28:56 (ZULU)

Bravo........

Go here and learn how to do it yersef:

http://www.paracordsecrets.com/articles/35/article.html

Joe.......

Make sure the kids come first. Where will Peanut live?

Bolt out!

Bolt
Fighting the usual fall sinus attacks in...., NC, - Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 01:58:38 (ZULU)

Joe: Sorry to heat about the big D. That sucks.

Pat II
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 03:00:31 (ZULU)

Hi guys...

I can't say much about legal stuff on SC for a while, cuz some other "persons" might have found that I am on here, and be reading what's going on.

But - I will say that after three years of ups and downs - and kicking on doors, Yesterday and today - the worm has turned, and there are people really, honest injun, going to big time jail - like "Not less than 5 years" - minimum sentencing guidelines type jail - FINELY!!!

I'm in pig city :)))))))))))))))))))))))))

Drop me an e-mail if you wanna know more.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 04:35:22 (ZULU)

Joe: If you didn't have kids to raise, I would congratulate you. My wife and I are going to get a divorce as soon as our youngest goes to college. One of my brothers is on his fifth wife. This time it's true love. I told him that anybody who would get married twice is a slow learner.

Pablo: You have my e-mail address. Tell me what's going on.

Travis: So far my "recoil" post is pretty weak. Do you want me to finish it?

CDC'
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 06:11:55 (ZULU)

CDC, Yes! finish the lesson.

Sick'em 'Lito!

SSG Mac
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 10:36:51 (ZULU)

SSG Mac: I added a little. This time in the A.M. my fingers hop sround like a troupe of break-dancers.

CDC'
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 13:04:21 (ZULU)

CDC: Keep on posting that...it makes for great "gems" (cut and pasting into a desktop doc) for my personal archives. I dunno, but maybe a "lifecycle" or a similar high-end stationary is worth buying. Shit, even if it is marginal or less on the tremors, you still get an aerobic benefit that is easy on the knees:)) The used market on these is pretty good, as long as you avoid the semi-retail/ used shops (like play-it-again).

Gents: (CDC, you have it right--a bit o' congrats is in order)--Honestly, the only emotion that is strong right now is an underlying anger that is solely about the kiddies. She wants to use the moral crutch that they will be better off, ya know, from the effects of a loveless marriage and the fighting and all that. But, albeit not exactly an unbiased observer, I see our situation as infinately better than most relationships in this department. In fact, she and I are the punchline of family jokes akin to a 50's family sitcom. What pisses me off is that, in order to self justify--she wants to believe they will be better off. No...that is NOT the outcome here. And to deny it is just setting herself up for failure fromthe get go. As I see it now, reality will set in within a few years, and the bitterness directed at "me" (being the bogeyman for all her shortcomings)--will translate into emotional warfare thru my children. That, sadly, is the usual outcome in such matters...and, i can clearly see the mechanism that will bring it on over time. That pisses me off some, as I cannot change this path thru logic or reason.

As for the split--well, I have been willing to swallow much over the years in an effort to "make it work." Again, my motivation here is my children. Even now, I am low-keyed on attempts to salvage (no histrionics here, just a subtle theme) "for the kids." But, for me alone--I feel relief. It has been hard to deal with near total disrespect (the incidences of which are so universal as to defy listing all the ways it manifests) over these years. But I did swallow a ton of pride in this. In fact, her downward spiral--as it became apparent to me at least, coincided with my decision to directly confront these little digs as they happen. This did not alter her derisive attitude towards me (this stuff is subtle), but she did start doing this behind my back more. The mechanism, I believe, was to diminish me in her own eyes to help justify what is, at its very roots--a wholly selfish endeavor on her part. Grass is always greener--so coping strategies become essential to deny that "you are the cliche."

In short, I will miss my kids dearly--but this is exciting in a way akin to a PCS move. And, because there is not any bitterness yet, I "hope" it stays the way we are currently planning the split--a cordial parting. Honestly, the fine line I have to walk is to not be too happy about it, thus pissing her off for being insuuficiently destroyed by her dumping me:)) That said, I have no illusions about how fast things could go south, and am planning my contigencies accordingly. There are incentives for her to keep it cordial, very strong ones in the way I've proposed our path. My continued goodwill has teeth, mean nasty ones, should it falter. I am deeply involved in her families' land...in a no-fault state.

Joe M
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 14:05:15 (ZULU)

Joe: Sorry to hear about your coming big D. I know that Peanut will be your first priority.

HDR
OK, - Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 14:36:01 (ZULU)

"Oh, the sadomasochistic tedium of McCain's imprisonment in Hanoi being told over and over and over again at the Republican convention. Do McCain's credentials for the White House really consist only of that horrific ordeal? Americans owe every heroic, wounded veteran an incalculable debt of gratitude, but how do McCain's sufferings in a tiny, squalid cell 40 years ago logically translate into presidential aptitude in the 21st century? Cast him a statue or slap his name on a ship, and let's turn the damned page."

-Camille Paglia

Typical liberal thought, and as usual, totally missing the point. It is precisely his ordeal that goes straight to character. The dismissive argument is actually an acknowledgement of Obama's never-been-tested persona. Even the term "swiftboating" is enlightening to the liberal thought process. To them, it is just a political smear. But to those that ever serve anything but themselves--it is a damning indictment to have 95% of your "brothers in arms" actually stand against you. If I was a commie (hey, literary license here)---my conduct in uniform and out esnures that my brothers in arms would not stand against me out of the mutual respect we earned together. I know this in my heart. They would not vote for me, and probably say as much out loud...but there it would end---out of the mutual repect I alude to. So, the swiftboat vetrans made a strikingly derogatory statement that is closer to truth by its very nature than anything the liberals have ever encountered in thier lives--but due to a blind spot on honor, they miss this point entirely...and instead write it off "as politics." They have no sense of honor beyond that which they have for their egos, their persons. That is a sad life, IMHO.

Joe M
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 15:07:07 (ZULU)

CDC,

It's up to you, I'd probably just shoot from a shitty position, mop the blood up, pick up my shit, and keep hunting. ..... but I'm not above learning things from the BTDT crowd.

As for the exercise bike, craigslist.com is generally a good place to find that stuff cheap or free. I posted needing a free dishwasher, and was getting calls to come pick 'em up for weeks!

Speaking of which, I need to get one, for my rehab. I'm out of physical therapy, and am now doing my own PT. I'm walking rather briskly around the neighborhood for about an hour a day, and am starting to do some upper body stuff. I'm not exactly starting barfights, but I put front shoes on my own damn horse! It took me half a day, but I had to at least do that.

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna HAVE to get my wrists operated on this year. I ran out of Percocets the other day, and found out that my pain tolerance for the ache in my forearms and wrists has disappeared. I was having the kinda gut wrenching pain where you can't sleep, and you're wondering what bullets taste like.

I guess it was bound to happen. I broke them 15 years ago, and had two operations to straighten my left one, which bends up so far, my forearm looks like a hockey stick. "Corrective" surgery, my ass!

McCain:

I don't beleive his service should be the focus, but it damn well should not be dismissed. It shows a hell of a lot more commitment than organising a bunch of gay, tree hugging terrorists.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 18:26:29 (ZULU)

CDC,

Its worth the read.B'sides,your were just gettin to the good part.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 19:07:45 (ZULU)

"I posted needing a free dishwasher, and was getting calls to come pick 'em up for weeks!"

Travis, my advice is to Hold out for the blond one that uses the "suck dry" feature throughout the monthly cycle.

Joe M
Wednesday, September 10, 2008, at 19:55:58 (ZULU)

Joe

I feel for you. Went through a cordial split 24 yrs. ago that took 13 months. She's still bitter against me to this day.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Thursday, September 11, 2008, at 11:30:36 (ZULU)

A bit of trivia for youz bumz.

I have heard for years about how "accurate" the 16" Missouri Class battle ship guns were.

I was doing some research into something else a few days ago and came across some navel test data and specs for these guns.

I had heard "Those 16" guns could hold a 1/2 minute of angle"...

Well, "da trut" is - in good condition, they would hold 24 minutes of angle.

I got shotguns that will do better (but not at 22 miles ;).

More trivia for your next cocktail party after the "Thee-A-tur" :))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, September 11, 2008, at 12:36:47 (ZULU)

Just a post to memorialize those lost seven years ago.

I remember it vividly and no amount of social repackaging has touched that memory.

BKS and all the rest of you in Texas, stay low and be safe, we are thinking about you.

medicjim
Thursday, September 11, 2008, at 13:57:36 (ZULU)

When I get a few minutes, I'm adding to and editing the recoil post. Feel free to comment. You guys are the guys who know this stuff.

CDC'
Thursday, September 11, 2008, at 18:11:11 (ZULU)

Re: 911 Video (7mb download)

Dedicated to the men, women and children who lost their lives;

all those who sacrificed their lives; And to all the Heroes that responded to the emergency 11 September 2001

(click)

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, September 11, 2008, at 19:16:50 (ZULU)

Catshooter - email inbound, no attachments

medicjim
Thursday, September 11, 2008, at 21:53:10 (ZULU)

Lito,

Off hand, what would 24-MOA translate to at 22 miles (taking into account the Toyota Corolla and Aerola effects) ?

I'll bet the ground shook like hell ....

Duman
Thursday, September 11, 2008, at 23:52:01 (ZULU)

>>>>I'll bet the ground shook like hell ....<<<<

I recall in one of the early episodes of "Band of Brothers" when several of the Easy Co. troops were heading to their rendezvous point right after being air dropped the night before D-Day.

All of them hit the ground as the "16" shells came flying overhead. Sounded like several fighter jets flying low @ mach 2.

I suspect that was pretty close to real.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Friday, September 12, 2008, at 00:42:55 (ZULU)

Duman...

>"Lito,

Off hand, what would 24-MOA translate to at 22 miles (taking into account the Toyota Corolla and Aerola effects) ?

I'll bet the ground shook like hell ...."<

Actually, I worked backwards - the round will hit on a box that is 200 yds wide and 600 yds at 22 miles long in calm conditions.

200 yds at 22 miles is 24 moa. One MOA is 0.5 yds at one mile. At 22 miles, one moa is 11 yds - times 22 = ~200 yds wide

That does NOT mean that it will make a 24 inch "group" at 100 yds - the 24 moa @ 22 miles is with dispersion and ballistic "noise", but no wind.

I don't think they tested it at 100 yds ;))

One thing that is not well understood is that those shells hit the ground at the same angle that they were fired... so at 22 miles, they are crashing in traveling sideways.

About six months ago, I noted here that Dean Michaelis was getting out of being a "Super Snipie dude for hire", and off to become a nurse.

I got this from a fellow rosterfairian today.

http://www.dreammakersappaloosas.com/FireSale.html

It's all of Deans snipie stuff on the block.

The rooski laser is a good deal if is working... the rest is, well, priced in relation to Deans ego.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, September 12, 2008, at 01:47:30 (ZULU)

Click for a photo of the friendly end of the Mighty Mo's 16" guns. My dad joined the Mo's crew just after Midway. He said that the blast was memorable. He saw some shit.

CDC'
Friday, September 12, 2008, at 04:16:43 (ZULU)

I can't imagine the thunder from a 16" gun. When I was at Ft. Sill the barracks windows would shake a little from the arty guys firing MUCH smaller stuff. I'm sure those 155's and 205's are like a flash in the pan compared to a 16. I'd like to know the length, weight and muzzle velocity of the projectile.

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Friday, September 12, 2008, at 04:29:14 (ZULU)

MK4,

Thank you for the link. The day passed and even though I was aware it was 9/11, it became clear to me that everyone else in my life could give a shit. Never came up at any time. As a nation, we are forgetting. I won`t. I refuse. My daughter still won`t fly in a plane because she remembers and she`s only 11. Today was a day just like any other, but it shouldn`t be. Thanks to all who serve, prayers to those that gave all.

Steve Racer
Somewhere in Dillsburg, PA, - Friday, September 12, 2008, at 06:29:53 (ZULU)

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.htm

AP:2700 lbs at 2500fps, 72in length

HE:1900 lbs at 2690fps, 64inch length

Both new gun stats, MV dropped off with barrel wear.

I'm not sure if there were 16" guns at Normandy, Europe got all the old ships. 12" on the Arkansas, 14" on Texas and New York and any of the old Standard class that were in the Atlantic, plus the Brit BB's were all there. The fast BB's worked up in the Atlantic but were sent over to the Pacific ASAP, especially after the Tirpitz was sunk and there was no need to keep a modern BB in the Atlantic to counter her. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Friday, September 12, 2008, at 07:29:41 (ZULU)

Joe,

"Travis, my advice is to Hold out for the blond one that uses the "suck dry" feature throughout the monthly cycle."

The current model's working pretty hard on getting replaced. Her Dr. put her on Prozac for a medical condition, and we really started to get along well; having pleasant conversations, talking about stuff, and treating each other with respect. As soon as she realised this, she quit taking it, and keeps the pills at work, so she can conveniently "forget" them on weekends, when we're together the most.

Last night, she and the boy came home from his first cross country meet, which I missed, due to really bad insomia, and a complete lack of desire to ride in a minivan with her family for an hour each way, just to be there when he takes off and finishes.

Really, cross country is NOT a spectator sport! The boy(he'll be 13 this weekend, but I'm too broke to get him a rifle for his birthday)understands this, and about ADHD making stuff like that agonising for me, so I contribute in other ways, like just hanging out, taing him fishing, discuccing the stuff you wonder about when you're 13, etc..

Anyways, when they got home, I was just getting up, and I asked him if he'd taken care of the dogs.(which he's currently grounded for NOT doing) Well, that was all it took for big ass to get a bad case of mad cow disease! Completely flew off the handle, and refused to listen to reason. When I made the point about his being grounded, it suddenly became about my tone. What a bunch of shit.

She wakes up about 4 a.m., every morning, even though she doesn't want to. Well, this morning, I'd left her a note to PLEASE make certain I was up and around before she leaves, because I have some stuff that HAS tobe done today. Most of which, she's been bitching at me about for 3 months, rather than spending her alloted bitching time to get on the phone and take care of it herself.

I asked her to make SURE I was awake because I'll have entire conversations with her while I'm still asleep. Eyes open, and everything. I even have sex in my sleep, at times. (Or so she says) Well, anyways, just as I was nodding off,(finally) she woke me up to tell me NOT to sleep too deeply, so I'll be easier to wake up!

.........and she wonders why I get pissed at her. She was completely bewildered when, since I couln't get back to sleep, I got pissed at her when she bitched about the way I made her breakfast. I'm pretty sure a lesser man would have already choked her to death. At times I regret taking the slide off my pistol and hiding it the time she told me she was gonna shoot herself with it. If it weren't for my stepson needing a man in his lfe, I'd have left her a LONG time ago.

'Lito,

"Navel test data"? Were those 16" belly buttons? That's one BIG bitch!

Fire sale: Those are some fucking ugly appaloosas!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, September 12, 2008, at 14:29:17 (ZULU)

Travis...

Aw Jeeze. I don't get no respect!!

It ain't my fault that I'm dyslexic - I misspell everything while I contemplate the existence of doG.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, September 12, 2008, at 16:50:45 (ZULU)

Female bewilderment -

It is not us who changed, it is they who changed. They want to be equal to us and yet forget that they are a woman. It is they who want equal treatment, but forget (purposefully), that they do not have testicles between the legs, which, allow us men to be rational and sane. They want to us to be men and do man thing yet they also want us to do some of their woman thing such as child rearing, cleaning the house, being sensitive, spending quality time with them (yet they take no interest nor do they participate in any of our past time). And when we do comply with their request (being good men that we are) we get criticized for not knowing or recognizing what needs to be done, such as child rearing. Yet, as an example, our plea for safety and security for the child will be ignored and that we are being silly, amongst other things are ignored - go figure. They want us to be responsible, yet they take no ownership of the problems they create, the complaints that they throw out and the projects (aka, task) they set forth. They will start a project, call it a joint venture, but expect you to either clean it up or finish it, yet they will call you out on it if something went wrong.

In my humble opinion, the feminist movement, the advent of college (aka, brain washing) created many of the issues that we men have to share today. If only the gals will listen to Dr. Laura, she will straighten them out. It is surprising how well she knows the opposite gender and recommends what we men have either been thinking to ourselves or saying to our fellow two legged, testicle hanging, gun loving, types all along.

In a nut shell, I do not hate nor deplore them, but I am still bewildered by them and I am still figuring them out even at 42. I want one in my life and the one in my life is pretty good but she still confuses me, bewilders me, angers me, and takes away my time from shooting but I would not trade her for the world. The one thing I can say is that she is not afraid to speak her mind nor tell me when I am stepping out of bound. The sacrifices we have to make to make a relationship work - full time job it is.

I am off my little three legged stool. Stay safe, shoot straight and keep your guns oiled.

Darren
East Bay, California, USA - Friday, September 12, 2008, at 17:56:27 (ZULU)

MarcS of East SF, when were you in Fort Sill? I was there from 1985, December, to 1986 of March, if my memory services me correct. I was the third class for 0811 School (USMC). I still have photos of my instructors, class mates and in the field training. We used to go to the strip on our liberty. I suspect that it is gone now. Small world...

Darren
East Bay, California, USA - Friday, September 12, 2008, at 18:08:49 (ZULU)

The Wife !!

To quote the Blues brothers of 2000,

"It's cheaper to keep her "

Regards,

Joisey

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, Usa - Friday, September 12, 2008, at 21:41:37 (ZULU)

Joe M....are you gettimg my emails? Just curious.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Saturday, September 13, 2008, at 00:28:18 (ZULU)

Krauthammer wrote: "Yes, Sarah Palin didn't know what it (the latest iteration of the "Bush Doctrine") is. But neither does Charlie Gibson. And at least she didn't pretend to know -- while he looked down his nose and over his glasses with weary disdain, sighing and "sounding like an impatient teacher," as the Times noted. In doing so, he captured perfectly the establishment snobbery and intellectual condescension that has characterized the chattering classes' reaction to the mother of five who presumes to play on their stage."

CDC'
Saturday, September 13, 2008, at 12:36:54 (ZULU)

Palin should have told Charlie Gibson that the Bush doctrine don't mean crap anymore....from here on out it will be the Palin Doctrine......"Screw with the U.S. and I'll take you on a moose hunt!"

Back on antibiotics.....damn it, Bolt out!

Bolt
Down with sinus infection...again, NC, - Saturday, September 13, 2008, at 13:32:09 (ZULU)

Just some insight from a Northeast Yankee voter...

Palin makes me nervous...she talks too much about "God's will". If you subscribe to the whole "God" thing, don't most religious tomes talk about God giving man free will for a purpose? Was that purpose to run around guessing what God wants? I doubt it. Bottom line, when I hear 'pentacostal' or 'envangelical', I think agressive, pushing my will upon you, organized religion, which I loathe.

I listened to the whole "Bush Doctrine" discussion and it pissed me off... it pissed me off enough to begin to like Palin. Someone who thinks THEY know what I need in government is about the only type of person that makes me more uneasy than someone who thinks "God" knows what I need in government.

This website has something of a unified bent...most of you are Christian males that uniformly agree on most things.... I am not of the same bent, but you tolerate me and I know that I exchange ideas freely here because you permit it. I am not an atheist in the sense that I have any wish what-so-ever to impose my belief (or lack there of) upon you...I'm just sharing my point of view...and I do vote.

regards

Jim

medicjim
Saturday, September 13, 2008, at 15:14:50 (ZULU)

I'm a devout and practicing Agnostic who grew up in a Christian home.

Christians who pray that their actions are consistent with God's will don't bother me a bit. Christians who claim that they have special insight in to God's will and are ready to use force to impose that understanding are not acceptable as leaders. C.S.Lewis is of the first type. Torquemada is an example of the second.

Charlie's handlers and Charlie's audience don't know the difference.

CDC'
Saturday, September 13, 2008, at 16:37:52 (ZULU)

Here is the thing about God's will and the will of man: it's just like the freedom we enjoy as Americans. I would go as far to say as this is where the concept of individual freedom originated. God expects us to act consistent with His will, but we have the freedom to do as we damn well please. Just like in America, we are free do do as we please, in most areas. What we do with that freedom, tells the story of who we are as an individual. Some of us are more inherently equipped than others. If I didn't have God to lean on, I doubt I would be nearly the person I am. Athiests and agnostics that have great character get my wholehearted respect.

As far as I am concerned, just because someone is a Christian or not (or even conservative or liberal), being polite and respectful is generally the accepted standard. I quit my railroad career in May (for a whole two days before my old boss tapped me to consult and work for him part time) to start up an audio recording biz. I'm finally starting to get a few clients, and for the most part they are resoundingly and actively liberal. That's OK, they are people and I treat them with respect. I avoid talking about politics when I can. When I can't (and I had a discussion with a guy today that I've done several musical projects with over the years), I just say "look, I love you man, but we are going to have to respectfully agree to disagree".

The same guy said "you of all people should be on board with Obama, he's all about the little guys like you and me.....I could see you supporting McCain if you were rich".

To which I replied "that's the thing....I AM GOING to be rich!" :-)

Geoff M
WI, USA - Saturday, September 13, 2008, at 18:16:21 (ZULU)

RE: Charlie Gibson. What an absolute asshat. Was I the only one wishing Todd Palin was going to come from off camera with a chair leg in his hand and anger in his eye?

Also - if anyone has the McCain and Palin acceptance speeches recorded, I need DVDs for some campaigning efforts. Email me at geoffmccormick (insert normal symbol here) charter (punctuation) net. I stopped down at the campaign office today, they are just getting ramped up...should have been earlier IMO but we'll work with it.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Saturday, September 13, 2008, at 18:19:58 (ZULU)

re: faith country

I was raised in a Christian home, now a lapsed agnostic :-)

(no aspersion on my still-practicing immediate family).

My father was a church Elder in the past, one of my sisters is a current church Elder (completely different church and place).

Concur with CDC's observations on Type I and Type II practitioners.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, September 13, 2008, at 18:38:07 (ZULU)

I won't get into this God thing too deep, other than to say that God and I "Are tight"!

Sometimes I tell God he is a pain in the ass and sometimes I think God for the good stuff that falls my way.

God and I talk from time, mostly I talk, sometimes he/she/it talks back and I find answers. I never pray and ask for stuff... it is against my religion.

Some people like the Itralians think of God as the great puppet master... something happens, like your dog dies, God made it happen... I don't think so.

I don't know if God is a personage like an ol' guy sitting in the clouds with a big book of names, making red "X"s when you do bad stuff, but somehow I doubt it - my best friend when I was a kid (Joey San Martin) died because of what a priest did, and I kept waiting for the bolt of lightening to strike him down and it never came...

I don't know if God is a big force that created it all (and "all" is Godamnn big) and doesn't care about the little bits of sand (us!)... I tend to think that way.

But some of the biggest scumbags I have ever known were religious nut cases (think back to the "Church Lady" in my custody case).

And I have know some non-believers that lived and behaved better than some priests that I (and Joey San Martin) have known.

But I damn well resent it big time, when someone tells me to believe in "their God"... cuz I know that "my" God (he/she/it) and I are on good terms - "We tight"!

I heard something interesting last night. I was at a table of 20-ish people and someone said something against republicans as though all other 19 people were (naturally) in agreement.

The woman across from me furrowed her brow, so I said, "Funny how the liberals assume that everyone that has an education is for Obama".

She said, "You know... what I find odd it that the conservatives will listen to the other side and debate issues, but the liberals just rant, call names, and insult people that disagree with them."

Right on!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, September 13, 2008, at 19:55:32 (ZULU)

Darren, I was at Ft. Sill for about 2 weeks in Dec. of '88. I was going to go to my basic training there but the plan changed and I then went to Ft. Knox for basic (long story in Army paperwork).

Do you guys know anything about BSA rifles from England? A friend of mine inherited a sporter in .222 from his father who bought it from a fisherman that used it to shoot seals in Alaska a very long time ago. It doesn't say BSA on the barrel it has the actual name which I forget but the initials would be BSA so I ASSUMED it to be BSA. It's in prestine condition and looks to be of very good quality. The barrel was in tight contact with the stock all the way down the channel, the trigger sucked, and the scope was an old weaver 4X so I was surprised to get 1-1/2 MOA groups with it. If those issues were adressed I suspect it would shoot much better. I'm going to get the actual name and do some searching around the web tonight.

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Saturday, September 13, 2008, at 20:57:14 (ZULU)

What a great idea !

http://www.6mmbr.com/targetcam.html

All i need is the Range. LOL

Regards,

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, Usa - Saturday, September 13, 2008, at 21:08:02 (ZULU)

MarkS...

BSA stands for "Birmingham Small Arms".

They made SMLE rifles for the military, then Really great motobicycles (I used to race them), and now are down to selling Chinee' junk scopes.

Their civilian rifles are very good - made on Parker Hale actions.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, September 13, 2008, at 22:03:58 (ZULU)

re: target cam

I had the same idea, but didn't know how to find a transmitter/receiver combo that had enough range. This is the golden age for cheap electronics. Too bad it isn't also the golden age for firearm ownership :-(

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, September 13, 2008, at 22:36:22 (ZULU)

"Too bad it isn't also the golden age for firearm ownership" Careful, it might be after all, depending on who's elected.

CDC, I agree entirely. Guys, if you've got a spot of brain in your noggin (you all do) and the mindlessness of the more common Christian denominations annoys you, I highly recommend C.S. Lewis as a refreshing change. The man had a first-rate brain, was humble, and brought a warm humanity to his thoughts on God. No pretense at all, just a good man trying to understand & live up to holy ideals.

SSG Mac
Sunday, September 14, 2008, at 01:53:06 (ZULU)

Thanks 'Lito. I did some google searching and found out quite a bit. The one my friend has is a bolt rifle not a Martini. It's not worth more than three or four hundred bucks from what I'm told but I like it. Now it just needs some minor work to bring out it's potential.

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Sunday, September 14, 2008, at 01:55:42 (ZULU)

Chuck Hunt: Been trying to get a hold of you via cell. No luck so far, always get voice mail. You get any of my messages? Just curious. Joe

Joe Ducos
Turlock, CA, USA - Sunday, September 14, 2008, at 07:36:55 (ZULU)

MarcS,

I have just such a BSA rifle in the shop, not quite pristine but not too badly used either. Most of the "old seal rifles" that come in are in such bad shape that they are rarely worth working on. 222 Rem Mag is another "common" caliber for seals. You may already know this but Rem 700 short action bases will fit the BSA quite nicely. Nice find, and carefully tailored hand loads may really shine, none of the factory 222 Rem fodder available locally shoots at all well, even in truly accurate rifles.

222 Uber Alles,

Erik

Erik
Sunday, September 14, 2008, at 17:27:21 (ZULU)

Eric wrote:

"carefully tailored hand loads may really shine, none of the factory 222 Rem fodder available locally shoots at all well, even in truly accurate rifles."

Sad commentary on factory fodder, since 222 Rem was used to set some BR records in the 1960's. Supposed to be one of those "intrinsically accurate" cartridges (with a bit of encouragement, of course).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, September 14, 2008, at 17:42:19 (ZULU)

Erik,

If I remember correctly you're in Kodiak is that right? Do you own a gun shop there?

I had a hard time believing the part about a fisherman using this as a seal rifle just because it's in such good condition. From what I understand those guys view rifles only as tools. I think the spare hammers in the bottom of my job box are better cared for than Inuit seal rifles.

Joe did you shoot the steel match yesterday? I planned on abalone diving up in Mendocino but the seas were rough so I slept in, had breakfast, took a nap then wrestled with the dogs in the yard. Really hard day :)

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Sunday, September 14, 2008, at 18:38:36 (ZULU)

Test

Marius
Sunday, September 14, 2008, at 21:45:55 (ZULU)

Charles: I "replied to" two emails--one on the down-n-dirty of my marital fun and games, and the other expressing interest in more info...did you get these? Since those---nada from your end.

I look at religion much the same as I do anything else, and especially "liberalism"---I do what I do, you what you do, and we agree to meet in the middle by these necessary rules that covers my butt or yours impartially. Follow me on this: I'm an old-school 'Merican. I do what I do, and don't believe I have much say in what you do, except where our paths cross. There, at these interestions of two or more individuals, lies the "rule of law"--governing our interaction where our paths cross. Like stop signs and door locks, or B&E charges. These things are necessary only because it where I stop and "we" start. A liberal is fine in my book, as long as he wants to do all that charity onto himself--with his own wallet. I could care less, and in fact, I would actually admire such a person, since I too am very much a "liberal" when it comes to Children's Miracle Network or Make-a-Wish---but only on my terms and my efforts. I harbor no illusios that YOU should do as I do, either. But, alas, most "liberals" as we know them do not want to "sponsor" their own Latin-American immigrant in THEIR homes, nor do they want to open THEIR wallets for charitable effort---they want the rest of us---us, the great masses of "them"--to do these things so that they can now feel good (without all that messy effort shit that is for the "them" to do). Religious fanatics--the guys who will tell me that, but for their way--I must surely go to hell on my own--this exemplifies the same thing as libs, but from opposing sides of the spectrum. Both a religious nutjob and a dyed in the wool lib want to reach out and dictate the behaviors of those around them. These are fighting actions, IMHO.

That political scrum over San Fran and the Corps (banning them from recruiting in Berkley or filming in the golden gate park) led to a discusion over federal aid to the city. OK, and all at once it occured to me what that really means:

I AM AN UNWILLING FINANCIER OF SANF FRANSISCO'S TOO EXPENSIVE SOCIAL LARGESSE!!!! The Feds, by seizing my tax dollars and shipping it off to SF has, in effect and directly---taxed my ass without representation! I had no say, either by voting or moving, in SF's socialism and whacko support to any and every whacko group---but my dollars are seized and distributed to underwrite those very poilicies. I would vote No, and seeing that I held a minority, i also woulda moved. But, by stripping me of my money at the federal level, then supporting this crap out west--I am effectively supporting such madness without recourse or redress.

Yes...this pisses me off, and finally for the correct reasons. Before, Federal aid to the cities and states was seen as merely evidence of much too high fed taxation rates; like why not leave the dollars at home, and let us locals decide if we need to tax them for our needs. I did not think of it past that---until the Marines' little fight. By taking my money and sending it to another city or state, the Fed has disenfranchized me and has, with no stretch of imagination needed, over stepped our founding principles by a larger margin than King Georgie the tres ever dreamed of.

In knowing this for the last many months, my considerable esteem for our founders has only grown by epic leaps. They stood up and risked it all for much smaller slights. Either they were so much better than the collective "we"--or that "we" is so much more the pussified gentry today, incapable of identifying a slight, let alone taking action to correct it. I pray it is something in between.

Joe M
Sunday, September 14, 2008, at 21:58:48 (ZULU)

Test

Marius
Sunday, September 14, 2008, at 22:26:33 (ZULU)

Joe, I agree. I just call that "The Golden Rule" ;-)

You're right about taxation, redistribution of wealth, Federal "aid" to localities etc. also. That kind of thinking got it's big start under FDR with his New Deal. The Supreme Court of he day over-ruled him on several attempts, properly telling him the government hadn't the authority to tax for any purpose other than that specified in the (gasp!) Constitution. He threatened to pack the court with his cronys (there were no limits on the size of the court at the time, there is now). The Supremes rolled over, and FDR started the flow of party favors buying votes & undermining the Republic.

You and I have exchanged e-mails about the Army's Officer Corps, and how this war will improve it. I think similar arguments can be made for the country as a whole: there's a whole cadre of young people who've hung all they have out on the line to protect this country now, and families that have seen them do it. All those people are going to care a whole lot more about someone trying to advance a Socialist agenda.

Palin, rightly, just laughs at the overblown attacks on he character. She mocks them, showing what officious boobs they are. The biggest fear of the Ernest Socialist is being laughed at, because they've built up thier power (and self image) by being so exquisitly SERIOUS about all thier pet causes. If you'd brought up the notion of the Federal government regulating how much water my toilet could use per flush 50 years ago, layghter's the only response you would have gotten (or merited). That same adult laughter in the face of adolescent buls**t might bring down the whole house of cards, and that's what has the socialist's panties in a knot.

It's a beautiful thing to watch.

SSG Mac
Monday, September 15, 2008, at 02:53:23 (ZULU)

Marc S: No, no time for the steel match. Had a bunch of other stuff to do 'round the house etc. Sounds like you had a rough day!! :-))))

Joe Ducos
Turlock, CA, USA - Monday, September 15, 2008, at 04:20:00 (ZULU)

Click for a description of the camera tricks ABC used to shrink - and diminish - Gov Palin.

Dem's have two basic plays: "Bork" them - i.e. make them look evil, or "Quayle" them, make them look stupid. They need to destroy Palin right now.

Cheney/Gingrich '08!!

CDC'
Monday, September 15, 2008, at 12:47:47 (ZULU)

Speaking of Pentecostal, anyone heard from Gooch lately?

Rod,

I was wondering about repeater, to extend the range. When I was looking at doing something similar, I looked at the price of just buying a spool of cable. As I recall, it wasn't all that expensve. As for the AV equipment, older camcorders(especally the big old VHS models) can be had for next to nothing at garage sales. For a monitor, you could use your laptop or get one of those portable DVD players people put in their cars. I've seen them as low as $30, but they can be had even cheaper at pawnshops. I worked with a kid that had one in his pickup. When we had slack time at work, he'd hook it up to his playstation, which was powered through the cigarette lighter and a power inverter.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, September 15, 2008, at 14:40:48 (ZULU)

Two major investment houses are down the tubes. It would be easy to look at the multi-tens-of-million dollar bonus checks of last year and say "just desserts, greedo." But, these quasi-banks are the underpinning of corporate capital for the little things: Like jobs. Oh, and lest we forget: The retirement nest eggs of the legions of "baby boomers" were invested where? Damn...

My many posts and over-the-top detailed emails on this subject laid this all out already, so no sense in covering that ground again.

But I am begining to pray that someday many of you will say "Joe, you were so wrong on that economic stuff..."

But, the economy is huge, interwoven and psychological. The segments are often viewed as independant of another by smart people who ought to know better. I look at the housing meltdown, and the dollar printing that tried to cover (congress) as a small series of charges that do not destroy the entire building, but instead sever a couple of critical load bearing walls that establish the destruction mechanism. The anology is that economic sectors residing on the other floors are still saying, "Too bad about those poor basement guys, eh?"---as they blythly continue business as usual. In that, this unwinding of the two-pronged assault is slow-mo; the psychology that "they have a problem, while my sector is still strong" is driving these erratic ups and downs. But, the damage is done, and the slow cave in is underway. Housing went, and now corp credit is going--taking chunks of the boomers' expected wealth with it. Next is personal debt, jobs and government itself (credit rating is huge if we want to try to borrow our way along as we are now).

The real problem is "easy money." My time is valued at X dollars, but the same dollars have a different value to congress and the fed (much, much lower, like .2X). That disconnect is called inflationary. Once I realize that my time is being shorted, I will get mad--and lose my respect for that green piece of toilet paper. But, due to corporate financing drying up--I will also loose that now-menial job anyway. And, my personal debt will go into default, since I have no respect for what it represents anyway. Psychological. The human factor...the aspect of economics that confounds the so-called experts every time:))

Congress will never understand that they are the problem at the heart of it all--and will only continue to print more money to "solve" the hydra-like crisises. Thus, the fed' gumbie'mint is fiddling while the dollar burns...harhar.

'29, IMHO, looks like a walk in the park to what I see before us.

CDC: Anecdotal evidence is mounting that the media is driving at least a part of the McPalin surge....but, as that evidence mounts, they become even more shrill, more vehenoment in their disgust over their man being down....it is as if they know they are helping the opposition, but their hatred renders them unable to stop themselves. They lost their objectivity long ago. But now, we witness their loss of objectivity on their subjectivity. They (media) are descending into a dantes' style hell of their personal beliefs. It is hilarious....may as well laugh. I love this stuff. Maybe they'll feast on the editorial boards once the economy has its final death throw.

Joe M
Monday, September 15, 2008, at 14:56:19 (ZULU)

CDC',

Your mention of Torquemada brought to mind the scene from "History of the World Part-I", where Mel Brooks does the tap-dance "The Inquisition."

Also, caught the tail end of "Dr. Strangelove" the other night.... I love the line from Slim Pickens, "If we was flyin' any lower, we'd need sleigh bells!"

Ack! Need coffee....

Duman
Monday, September 15, 2008, at 15:59:08 (ZULU)

Joe Ducos. Sorry, mang. I got the phone call the last day I was in the 'States. I tried calling back, we played phone tag. Got tied up with Boudicca in Port Aransas and some spare margaritas.....

Joe M. I never got any emails from you, might wanna check and see if the email address was right. Hang in there, it gets better.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, September 15, 2008, at 16:48:30 (ZULU)

Charles: Our email accounts seem to be editing stuff: Your addy came thru as @domain.co]---just like that. Did not notice until just now. Maybe I have a virus...

Joe M
Monday, September 15, 2008, at 17:15:38 (ZULU)

Travis re: electronic LR target monitor

Those are all excellent ideas. I tend to buy stuff like that new, probably because I tend not to play the Ebay/Kijji used gear game all that much.

I thought about a cable too, althought I was thinking along the lines

of fibre optic since they handle longer hauls better. Big problem with a cable-based solution is that the long-range facility I access is a club facility, not a small private operation. Based on past experience, anything infrastructure at a club tends to "move around" if it isn't reinforced concrete with a deep footing.

The $150 to $250 price range for a >1KM capable transmitter and receiver seems just fine.

The other trick I considered was a wireless network extender with a high-gain antenna to preferrentially direct most of the RF energy at the receiver. (So connect in the IP domain, rather than in the video domain).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, September 15, 2008, at 17:30:01 (ZULU)

Hi Marc,

I am the gun dept manager for Mack's Sports Shop here in Kodiak, and you're right-the hammer in the bottom of your p/u bed gets more care than seal rifles. We don't see too many of the old rifles any more, too many of them have just been ruined over the years by neglect. This is sad as the stories that went with them are lost, too.

222 Rem country: I have an older 40X in 222 of unknown round count that will put any reasonable handload into 3/4 moa (esp in my wife's hands LOL) all day long but won't keep factory ammo inside 2 moa in anybody's hands. Except maybe one of the glossy gun magazine writer's -BBWWWaaahhhaaaaa!!

Has anybody tries one of the new 6.5x47 Lapua's?

Palin for (vice)President!!

Best to All,

Erik in Kodiak

Erik in Kodiak
Monday, September 15, 2008, at 18:34:19 (ZULU)

Lito,

Remember those high-power laser pointers from Wicked Lasers? My neighbor got one, green, 100mW output. The thing will cut black electrical tape, and will warm your skin (creepy feeling). Burns through batteries VERY quickly.

Not for kids.....

Duman
Monday, September 15, 2008, at 21:33:08 (ZULU)

OK guys, I don’t do this much – like about never - so I’m hoping that a shred or two of respect I’ve (possibly) earned here over the years will allow me to pull this off. Without a pie fight.

Morality is morality, but it has nothing to do with salvation. It’s wonderful to be a good person, moral and upright (and that’s all highly respectable and admirable!), but “All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God”.

That means ALL of us – no matter how moral, good, or whatever we are. Doesn’t matter how “spiritual” or “in harmony” we are either.

We’ve ALL failed, and NOBODY can ‘earn their way into Heaven’. No amount of “good works such that none may boast”, charity, etc. Just can’t happen – we can’t be ‘good enough’ to overcome the sin in our lives. Doesn’t matter how many Sunday services you sit through (sitting in a church means you’re a Christian in the same way sitting in a garage means you’re a car), how much you donate, what charitable “good works” you do – NOTHING.

The Good News is that Christ Jesus was the atonement for our sins. Literally the sacrifice that justifies us in the sight of God.

Salvation is a gift. If I give you a gift, and then mandate that you do whatever – that’s not a gift, it’s a bribe! And if I give you a gift after you’ve done something for me – that’s not a gift, it’s a payment! Salvation is a gift. Freely given. The only thing you need to do to get the gift is ACCEPT it.

People believe they need to get their lives straight to become saved. WRONG. God cleans up our lives from the inside out. The prisoners that come to understand their place in the universe will be forgiven – and God will change them from the inside out. Removing the desire to do wrong, and replacing it with the desire to live a righteous life. And the direction of living that righteous life comes from God – we should all be seeking His will. We’ve still got free will, so we can – and sometimes do – rebel against what God desires. That’s the nature of free will in conjunction with the nature of man. But God desires that relationship with us, and never gives up on us – the story of the Prodigal Son anyone?

We have free will. Free agency. We all may CHOOSE to do as we please. Without question. And as with many things in life, we learn more from our bad choices than from our good ones. Like the kiddo that eats too much candy and pukes – he had free will, and disregarded the parental instruction. We do the same thing. Things go so much smoother in life when following true wisdom though.

Many are the paths to destruction, but the gate to salvation is narrow. The “feel good” religions are among the paths to destruction. Not that a true relationship with God doesn’t “feel good”, but it’s not the same as the ‘entertainment’ services some of the mega-churches offer.

We are not God – and we will never be God. Humanism and some religions that believe this are flatly incorrect. They somehow believe that we can ‘earn’ our way to Heaven or being our own god (that whole “there’s a bit of god in each of us” stuff especially) – which would nullify the need for the sacrifice God made for all of us if it were true.

Jim, you know I think exceedingly highly of you, and count you among the few I call friend. Same for you Kittywhacker. But don’t put your faith in what you can do, or a relationship that doesn’t include Christ Jesus. I’m not talking down to you IN THE LEAST. It’s more of a “man, I found this wonderful new brand of beer, and I’d be more than happy to turn you on to it”. Sharing the good stuff, if you get my drift.

To accept that gift, we have to first off understand that we are all sinners. All have sinned – that’s just that. But understanding that God extended that opportunity to us, the capability of being justified in His sight through His son the Messiah, we choose to believe that the one He sent was His “one and only son”. We confess our sins, confess our belief in the Christ that can provide that atonement, and accept Him as Lord.

From there, it’s a matter of listening. God directs, we follow. Not out of some sense of duty, but out gratitude for the abundance He gives.

And lastly, let me explain that NO religion is ‘correct’. Religion is a man-made construct, nothing that God has decreed. God desires a personal, interactive RELATIONSHIP with each of us. That relationship is what matters – nothing else. Adam and Eve didn’t have ‘religion’, they had a relationship. Anyone that tells you that you have to do anything ‘in the name of a religion’ or do whatever ‘as part of the religion’ ought to be seriously scrutinized. And in 99.9% of the cases, run away from FAST. Wide are the paths to destruction.

If God wants me to stop doing something, He’s gonna let me know I need to stop doing that. PERSONALLY. And if He does tell me to stop doing that, He’s talking to ME – and I have neither the right nor responsibility to tell YOU to do likewise. If God wants you to stop doing the same thing, He will let you know. Personally. That’s a problem some people have – and God will take ‘em down a peg or thirteen, to remind them that they’re no ‘better’ than the people they’re badgering. Badgering others is an exercise of free agency, no doubt, but there is a price to pay for doing wrong. There always is. But we’re to be open to help, as we can (note: if you ever have to force anyone to do something, that’s not considered “help”).

For what it’s worth, I’ve got a quote that’s been on my office wall for years now:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience” – C.S. Lewis

And lastly, if you disagree with the above, remember that I’m just the messenger. The author is the one you really want to take it up with. I share this with you in the same way I’d share a bottomless ammo can – with gladness, and the best wishes for your happiness as well. Nothing more, but certainly nothing less.

Bravo
Monday, September 15, 2008, at 23:29:22 (ZULU)

Erik, One of my shooting partners has a 6.5X47 Lapua. I believe he gets Lapua 123 Scenars to fly at 3K FPS. When we shoot side by side we are very close in performance out to 1K (when I'm shooting my .243 with 115 DTACS at 3K). The rifles are almost identical with A5 stocks, Rock barrels, built by GAP. The only difference (besides colors) is that mine is on a 700 and his is based on a Surgeon. Both are tack drivers and require roughly 25%-30% less wind at 1K compared to a 175 SMK at 2,680. We're both on our first barrels. I think he's pushing 2 thousand rounds and I'm just over 1. I think his will last longer we'll see.

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Tuesday, September 16, 2008, at 00:16:16 (ZULU)

Re: "long range remote target reporters"...aka video cameras, etc. One thing to keep in mind: I read an article some time ago wherein the authors, using Dr. Ohler's machines (and Dr. Ohler's assistance) measured ballistic coefficients over a 1,000 yard distance. All very interesting, but the "thing to keep in mind" was that overnight the rodents played billy heck with the cables...kept chewing on 'em. Now this was in AZ, so wherever y'all are located, may or may not be a problem. Beware the squirrel?

Relatedly, I have a scheme for long-range shooting in thishere windy neck of the woods...nightime! portable generator, floodlight and warm clothes might be all it takes...at least the wind (and the mirage) dies down after dark. This would be useful for establishing grouping and zero so's when you do shoot in the wind and mirage, you'd at least know it was the wind or the mirage, or the yips, and not the load or a poor zero.

SteveinButte
Butte, MT, USandA - Tuesday, September 16, 2008, at 02:51:10 (ZULU)

Steve in Butte:

A night shoot is a good idea, but many formal ranges have rules against shooting at night :-(

Bart Bobbitt shot a record .308 Win group at dawn when the winds were non-existant.

From rec.guns Google archive:

From: Bartbob (bart...@aol.com)

Subject: Re: Bart Bobbitt: 20-shot 3.325" group at 800 yards

Newsgroups: rec.guns

Date: 1997/05/13

I used a .308 Win. with Sierra's 155-gr. Palma bullet with 45.3gr. of IMR4895 and RWS Primers in full-length sized WCC60 match cases. Had a 20X scope on the English Paramount action and shot prone with a bag under my front hand to steady the rifle. It was about 6AM in dead-calm wind conditions.

I hadn't thought about the rodent factor, it's certainly not an issue that can be dismissed out of hand.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, September 16, 2008, at 07:06:30 (ZULU)

re: rodents

Was watching a documentary about a commercial demolition blasting company (CDI). Once of the lessons learned for them was to run their trigger lines (prima cord) with some elevation. They learned the hard way on an earlier job that overnight rodents would chew thru the lines if laid on the ground - yikes!

They were taking down the cooling towers at the UK reactor site at Windscale. Each tower is 88 metres high and 58 metres at the base and supported by 64 steel-reinforced concrete legs above a cooling pond.

http://www.britishnucleargroup.com/calderhall/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sellafield

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, September 16, 2008, at 07:27:40 (ZULU)

Bravo,

When you get to saying something wrong, I'll argue with you.

As it is, who am I to argue, to begin with. Good Job Man. And no, I've no intention of turning this into Christiancountry. Just agreeing with the 'share a great beer' analogy.

Sean T.
Winnipeg, Mb., Canada - Tuesday, September 16, 2008, at 18:22:25 (ZULU)

Lehman collapse over the weekend is a red light---but it is "one of them" in terms of the housing crisis/ meltdown. They were heavily invested in mortgage securities...so no new data comes out of it. But, AIG is the eureka that shows where my arguments are on to something:

AIG is well capitalized and has numerous segments (manufacturing/ aircraft leasing, real estate holdings, solid bottom lines across the empire)--but it is being downgraded repeatedly and may soon run out of ready cash to meet obligations. Ordinarily, ready cash would never be a problem for these guys---spin off a minor op and move on. What is happening here is they got exotic (and were the only game in town doing so) by insuring the very securities that brought down lehman's. Bear in mind that, as insurance goes, this still only represents less than 1/5th of this side of AIG. So, the thinking is that they will be unable to meet obligations in the near term, thus drving down the credit rating, thus driving down the stock. But, none of that should matter a bit, and wouldn't have moved the stock price .05 cents if it all happened last fall. What changed? The airplane thing is worth 1.some billion, yet they can't move it right now when they need it most. A lucrative business, well worth it last week. What is actually in play isn't whether it is still worth 1.3 billion, but "What is this 1.3 billion itself now worth?" And that is what changed from last fall to this fall...

This AIG thing, more than any other failure thus far, tells me that my belief that the dollar is the problem is dead on. And gents, this is worst case stuff. I could, but won't, explain in great detail what a failed dollar means to the planet...

Let's just say that this has more probability of starting wars than another terrorist attack on our soil...

Joe M
Tuesday, September 16, 2008, at 18:22:26 (ZULU)

Erik,

Here recently, while I was dreaming about the sheep hunt I want to go on one of these days, I was wondering if here were any cattle ranches or at least enough outfitters with horses in Alaska for me to find work. Well, yesterday, I got the latest issue of Farm and Ranch living, which has diaries in every issue from four farms and ranches around the country, so you can get some insight into how they do things differently in othe parts of the country.

They had a diary from Pasagshak Ranch on Kodiak island, owned by the Flickinger family. I guess that answered that! I was really surprised to find that anyone would even try to ranch on Kodiak island, home of some of the biggest bears in the world, but it turns out that here are THREE ranches there!(The other two raise buffalo, mostly.) In their diary, they mentioned that they had one bear come in and kill(but not eat) TWENTY FIVE cows, in one night alone!

I guess, compared to them, we don't really have a coyote problem. Another killed two cows and one mare. They tracked down and shot the offending bear, but while skinning him, they rolled him over, apparently too far, as he rolled about 1/4 of a mile, right into Pasagshak bay! They took a canoe out to get him, as the seas were too rough to lunch a skiff, then used a come a long to drag him onto the beach. He squared at 9 1/2 feet.

If anyone wants the article, I could scan and e-mail it.

Bravo,

I feel ya on the "mega churches". My wife and I spent some time trying to find a church we both liked, but I finally more or less gave up. Now she goes to the church with the jumbotron, the band, huge gym, etc.. She gets pissed at me for calling it "clown church", because really, all they're missing is some clowns and a whorehouse.

On good works, I think you may not have worded it properly. The bible says that youwon' get into heaven on good works ALONE. That means you still should help people, but that alone won't do it. You can't build a church and still be an asshole. Showing God your receipts when you get to the pearly gates won't get it.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, September 16, 2008, at 18:23:50 (ZULU)

I do good and honorable things because I think it's the right thing to do. I accept full responsibility and take full credit.

When I grow up, I want to be known as an "individualist, somewhat durable".

Besides... only GOOD girls go to heaven, it sounds like a boring place.

medicjim
Tuesday, September 16, 2008, at 18:55:03 (ZULU)

I've been reading (and listening) to Joe's statements on the economy for a long time. The term "well thought out and researched" comes to mind. Among his talents is being able to look at the circumstances and extrapolate what appears the next domino that has to fall, if the chain reaction is not stopped.

If he's wrong, I'll be VERY happy - but expect that he's not. The way he makes his way to his conclusion is a bit different than the way I get to my conclusion - but they're the exact same conclusion.

I've said here before (and been derided for it before too) that 'an answer' is beans, bullets, and bandaids. I certainly hope everyone is stocking up on these. Charity begins at home.

Travis, you got it right on. That's why I put the quote in there about "not of good works lest none may boast". Charity is our command, but it's not enough in and of itself.

Jim, if at this point you aren't known as "individualist, somewhat durable", I'd question who exactly could be. Individualism is a wonderful thing.

Unfortunately, as it seems I'm learning more and more often, when I swim against the tide I'm learning that there's a reason for the tide and why people swim with it. Often after I've expended quite a bit of energy and more than a touch of hard earned greenbacks.

Sometimes not - and those are good times. But other times I kick myself for 'bucking the system' to no apparent usefulness.

But in the end, at least it can be said that I didn't swim with the tide without a danged good reason, and after swimming against it long enough to reason out WHY I ought to do things that way on my own.

In other words, I understand what you're doing (at least I think so) and consider it commendable. I'll let you know when I get enough wisdom to know when to swim with the tide, and when not to - still working on that one.

Bravo
Tuesday, September 16, 2008, at 19:23:25 (ZULU)

Joe M...

I remember about a year and a half ago, a guy on TV (Glen Beck) predicted all of this, right down to the details - and he was right, dead, on!

This money thing in our country is like a big shell game. If regular private businesses ran their books like these large groups do, they would be in jail in a New York Second.

Unfortunately, this has been going on for so long that it is impossible to track where the money went, and when it gets this big, there is no stopping the tumbling down - this is just the beginning.

All of these companies use to be solid, but they discovered that they could buy and sell "packages" of loans that were made under the NINJA policy (No Income, No Job or Assets)... and each thought that could reach out to their sister companies, "if" something went wrong.

But all the big buffer "Sister" companies, Like AIG were playing the same game - so when one tumbled and reached out, they got nada, because the "reachee" was hollow too.

This is going to be like an avalanche of Dominoes, and each one that falls, pulls down two more, that pull down four more.

To paraphrase a great philosopher, "Hey mom, the banker isn't wearing any clothes".

Well, DUH.

It's gonna get worse, much worse, before it gets better... and who do you think is going to take the financial "hit".

Not the heads of these companies that left 6 months ago with $400,000,000 Parachutes.

In the end, it will be good for America, because we have been spending "Vapor money" for a long time, but in the process, a lot of people are gonna bleed.

(Put your loose change under the mattress.)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, September 16, 2008, at 21:51:29 (ZULU)

Dayjavoo......on getting worse.

Time to read my copy of "Patriots:Surviving The Coming Collapse" again. I've only read it a half dozen times.

http://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.asp?bookid=35549

I'm skeered, Bolt out!

Bolt
Tuesday, September 16, 2008, at 22:30:27 (ZULU)

Bravo, my friend, I couldn't have said it any better.

..and you're absolutely right about the difference between works and salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Works is nevertheless VERY important... but separate.

Heaven, I believe, will be anything BUT boring. Imagine traveling at the "speed of thought."

As far as Hell goes....every testimony I've heard of "near death experiences," describes that place... WAY beyond horrible.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Tuesday, September 16, 2008, at 23:58:43 (ZULU)

Bolt:

+1 for Patriots:... book

Read it thru prior versions when it was an Internet novel too.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, September 17, 2008, at 00:06:06 (ZULU)

Marius.....I tried to send you an email, did you get it?

I don't usually get my theology inputs from TV (I'm one o' them pew-jumpin, toungue-speaking crazies)but I heard something on "Dharma and Greg" that struck me. Greg was researching religions to decide what he "wanted to believe" and wearing himself out. He happened to be reading the Bible at the time. She grabbed it, tossed it and said "Let me sum this up in two sentences...Old Testament--don't piss God off, it's unhealthy. New Testatment--Be good to people!"

Now, that's profound.

There will be lots of "bad girls" in Heaven. Thank God.

Taliban is getting really frisky lately. Area around Kabul is now Indian country for real. Whatever bush has in mind, and whatever McCain/Go-Bama gonna do with it, they better start doing it fast.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2008, at 06:07:02 (ZULU)

Dudes when Marius prints "test" he is checking another acct. like mine, so the E-mails you send (lito) ; ) dont go to him.

Bravo you said what I wanted to but better.

Joe glad you woke-up to the taxation w/o representation problem that FDR started.

I wonder how many lives will be lost before the gov't returns to constitutional limits.

4eyes
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Wednesday, September 17, 2008, at 06:47:49 (ZULU)

Dayjavoo (all over again)???

Last night, the news announced that OUR GOVERNMENT has given AIG - American Insurance Group, a PRIVATE BUSINESS - $85,000,000,000 (that's "billion" with a "B")... to prop up their bad (no STUPID GREEDY) business decisions.

That's $85,000 PER WORKING FAMILY in America!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't believe the American people are sucker, or stupid, enough to let this fly.

Folks, you just saw where your kids education, your country cottage, your retirement, and that new truck went... all last night at 11 PM.

And the heads of AIG will walk with their golden parachutes, and absolutely NO liability for what they have done.

The reason that we stopped monopolies like this nearly a century ago was to prevent just this kind of thing happening.

This election won't fix anything... We need a friggin revolution.

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, September 17, 2008, at 12:37:12 (ZULU)

Lito - The AIG deal is a loan with associated control. The government owns majority interest in the company for the short period between now and when all the assets are sold off to pay off creditors. The stock holders are not being made whole.

medicjim
Wednesday, September 17, 2008, at 13:41:42 (ZULU)

4i's: I'm late to the party...but I arrived at last. Federal money to a city or state at a glance means that the people were taxed to the point where the fed has enough to "give" money to these localities. That, at a glance, strikes you as "tax rates are too high." Then, upon further thinking---it is seen as a sovereign issue when the fed attaches strings. So the problem can be summed up (incompletely) as a confiscation of monies combined with bribery and strong-arm tactics to undermine local authority (drive 55, drinking age to 21, etc). It finally dawned on me that there is another, more sinister aspect" disenfrachisement. I do not get to vote against gay pride parade funding in SF....but I "have" to pay for it thru this "federal aid" BS. I wonder why it took me so long to notice?

AIG bailout: Had to be done...but these folks are good for the money. Insuring "risk" on wall street---I bet they aren't in this business any more by the end of the last renewal periods:))

Aside from the dollar being the real problem all along, the regulatory aspect of "oversight" (rules if you will to minimize exposure, but not so much risk) are important. Problem is, the rules do not adapt as fast as the market. Securitized mortgages were created and in widespread use before congress ever heard of them---in fact, Congress got the word only when these turned toxic. So, Obama thinks the government (congress) has the expertise to understand, study, and then to regulate markets? Thats a hoot! Look at the federal budget and tell me you'd let these fucks run your personal checkbook---let alone America's corporate checkbook! McSame wants a "commission" to recommend any changes to regulation....a position that has a better chance of coming up with rules that might work without screwing things up worse, IMHO. If you stack congress with trial lawyers, don't expect economic genius, don't expect tort reforms (healthcare costs anyone?), in fact, don't expect anything but self interest and corruption. But, while they are there---do not allow them to regulate anything without adult supervision:)) Obama scares the hell out of me.

Lito is right...it is too far gone for anything else to work.

Joe M
Wednesday, September 17, 2008, at 13:49:30 (ZULU)

MedicJim...

It appears like a loan on the surface, and "must be paid" in two years, and the government (we, the people) now own 80% of AIG. That's like buying 80% of an empty box.

HA! (as the Original Pat would say).

They can't raise 85 Billion dollars in two years because people are pulling out of AIG, so what we have done is exactly what the mortgage banks have been doing in years past - we bought an empty business for 85 Billion dollars.

We have put a bandaid on a gaping wound

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, September 17, 2008, at 14:09:40 (ZULU)

I think I finally won against the Wisconsin Department of Revenuers. As I PSC's thru about 13 states over the many years, I NEVER had a problem maintaining my residency eslewhere---that is, until I got "here." These idiots decided that I was a resident, and owed them for 01-08 tax years with interest and penalties. This started when I was in Afghanistan, and these shitbags actually fought against the SSRA delay I requested (they lost that too). Then, they looked over my supporting documents and rejected them as insuficient---two decades of LES's showing another state, enlistment docs showing another state, 214s showing another state...well, since it was federal law on my side, and they wanted state law only to apply, I filed a counter-suit thru federal court. That prompted an agreement to "review" all documents originally offered to prove I was never a resident here (by law, by god).

Today, they erased what was now $15,546.21 of illegally assessed debt. No, I am not happy---I am still pissed. I am mulling suing them for the hassle of the whole BS, from credit reporting to quashed seizure actions I fought individually.

What shit hole...and yes, once the divorce ink is on paper, I am moving outta here. Liberal states...its all about YOUR money!

(note: I pay property taxes without much complaint and use the services they supposedly support)

Joe M
Wednesday, September 17, 2008, at 14:50:19 (ZULU)

Joe, the FM/FM and AIG deals are exactly what I was/am worried about. This is going to shit the bed because Uncle Sugar is bailing them out, not because the asshats are failing. Now all the other chumps are/will be expecting to be bailed out of the results of their Captain Insano decisions. Whereas what should be happening is that the personal property of the corporate officers should be liquidated and they should be imprisoned at hard labor. Do we have any salt mines? Hell, turn them into Soylent Green. The problem is basically one of having authority with no responsibility because of all these Golden Parachute/USG bailout deals. And the shareholders don't/can't do anything about it, from my understanding, the corporate officers have largely been insulated from shareholder intervention by changes in corporate law. It's insane.

Authority without responsibility has always been a recipe for disaster. This would have always been ugly, but now it'll be stupid because Uncle Sugar got involved. Happily, I'm heavily vested in metals; with minor holdings in wood, fiberglass and energetic chemicals as well as supporting positions in clothing and nylon. S/F......Ken M

Ken M
Wednesday, September 17, 2008, at 19:53:32 (ZULU)

Ken M: I am an absolutist on the "authority without responsibility" problem---I say if they are willing to execute authority, but balk at responsibility for those actions--then shove it down their throat til it comes out the other end. Then switch it up:))

That "problem" permeates so much of society; hell, Pelosi can't even bring herself to read the constitutional charter for congress to see if her branch has any role in the mess. She simply said "no" when asked if congress had any blame here. Rules? Regulations? Laws? Congress's fault? No--to her, this is rule-by-decree by the executive branch, I suppose. Maybe all that smack they talk about the imperial Bush became real to them? But, what a classic example of proper authority denying any responsibility, eh? She's a piece of work...

And the accountibility granted to exec's for good times needs to be equally applied for the bad...no doubt.

But, FM-FM by itself is the "house of cards." Remember a few weeks ago I posted on how the NY Fed had offered FM(2)-shares rather than T-bonds to help keep the financing of US debt (congresses' deficit spending) going from our foriegn underwriters? Well, to allow those two swamps to submerge in the bog woulda took the dollar itself down with it. AIG, OTOH, is actually well positioned to buy itself out of debt...just not within 24 hours. They needed weeks, not hours. Their exposure to the toxic defaulted securities is really quite small compared to the rest of their balance sheet. They are good for it, providing the government is good for their over-spending debt:)) And therein lies my warnings: The Gubmint cannot be good for debt of that size. Bye-bye, paper money...I'm just sitting here waiting for the ugly truth to sink in system-wide.

In fact, this realization that dollar is nothing is what is eating away at housing, wall street, and corporate finance underneath all the BS about bad loans and inflated realestate pricing. Kinda long in detail, but the short of it is this: The inflated pricing itself came from too many easy-Fed dollars (printing money for the hell of it) chasing too few goods. At first, nobody notices that everyone has too much cash-dollars--it is just a big ol' party. Prices rise and everyone feels rich. Slowly, a sector realizes that if everyone has a million dollars' in monopoly money, who is truly a millionaire? These early guys start saying US-dollar based assets (housing) aren't as good as euros or commodities...witness the euro's 50% rise earlier this year and the run-away ramp-up of copper, lead, oil etc. Anyway, too many dollars are out there for a dollar to be worth a dollar as you may understand it. It is this dawning-of-understanding we are witnessing now, and it starts where we see the problems---with the so-called smart money chasing "things" other than dollars or US-based real property (dollars disguised as goods---the diff is ya can't easily take it to the Eurozone)...but it hardly finishes there. Watch out, and read up on the Weimer republic for a guide as to what comes next.

IMHO, we crossed the rubicon for world-wide financial system collapse long before I started putting this all together in my warning-posts. Russia closed their markets yesterday, and they remain so today. Heheh...misery loves company! Oh, and there is no plan B for economics. It is collapse, starvation-war-death, re-do. In that order. Unless, of course, we can find about 4 billion volunteers to un-ass the planet:))

Joe M
Wednesday, September 17, 2008, at 20:34:33 (ZULU)

Boltster, I liked that book too.

As a matter of fact, if you get on his blog, you'll notice a 'contribution' from someone you know, back around the first of the month.

While I couldn't very well give my boy Unintended Consequences to read - or for that matter even read it to him while trying to 'edit on the fly' the salacious parts - I did read Patriots to the family.

Did I mention I hate the TV?

Another recommendation: Lights Out. If you want it, it's an e-book in PDF format. Not quite as 'polished' as Patriots, but just as fun IMO. Actually, the girlfriend liked it better than Patriots. Drop me a line if you're interested, I'll send it as an attachment.

Right now, my copy of Patriots is with a fellow rosterfarian (and great good friend!) while he's recuperating. After he's done, it's flying out to Wisconcin more than likely. I think my copy has seen almost as many miles as my copy of UC (GRIN)

Mk4, you got it right. I can't believe what 'life' will be like without the limitations we've got now.

4eyes, I think the number will be in large percentages. People are extremely adaptable - but they unrealistically cling to the known just because it's known. I expect many of them will be the victim of nothing more than "but it can't be this way, it's never been this way" mentality.

There's only one way out that doesn't involve the 'worst case scenario' that I can see:

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

In other words, a return to fundimentals. We discuss fundimentals in depth here, and sticking to them (true conservativism). In shooting, government, etc. There's a reason the Washington Monument has a plaque on the top of it - only seen from the outside looking down - which says "Laus Deo". Praise be to God. Seems that Washington had many things right - much more on the ball than either mcstain or ospama.

But then Washington warned us to steer clear of "foreign entanglements" (in context as "nation building") and refused a national debt.

Bravo
Wednesday, September 17, 2008, at 21:45:54 (ZULU)

Said to me: "I know there is now a right to own guns...now we just got to make sure only the 'right" people own the guns..." This democrat member of my extended family is an idiot...but to think about the Brady campaign in these terms oughta scare anyone into buying a gun, ammo and/or more ammo like right now:))

Joe M
Wednesday, September 17, 2008, at 22:50:02 (ZULU)

FWIW, gold prices exploded (analysts' words) today:)) With congress and the Fed (plus the machinations of "leverage") creating dollars from nothing...more folks are taking notice that this currency is undesirable. With every small fire that devalued dollars create (housing free-fall, AIG, FM-FM, Stearns, etc)--the gumbie-mint response is akin to throwing gasoline at it! The solution is the problem...and the problem only has the one solution. Why? Cuz the PONR came and went before any one noticed there was a problem. There is a draconian "out" still in play, maybe:

Slash federal spending (like whole departments and all foriegn aid), hike interest rates (7% or better), let failures run their course (cash under the matress stuff), and deal with the double digit unemployment afterwards...there it is. The true solution. Anybody advocating this in DC? On the campaign trail? Its called bringing on a world-class recession, and I am going on record as saying that to try to beat back this nasty event with wanton spending will be far, far worse for far, far longer. Things seem to be accelerating. Wouldn't it be something to see a national election postponed?

And, as I said before, nobody has the cajones to acknowledge the true problem, let alone to step up to this plate. It will go the other way. We'll keep on' keeping on with three shifts at the mint until we take out the entire world trading systems...and we'll all wish it was only just "a world-class recession."

I seriously hope I am the idiot. Never said that before...ever. While I was "out there" at first with this stuff---chicken little-like....gotta admit, its starting to look entirely plausible as time goes by, eh? Hey, even the MSM is taking note...click.

And another:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8058d308-84d3-11dd-b148-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1

This one is a world view.

Joe M
Wednesday, September 17, 2008, at 23:21:18 (ZULU)

I got it on the news tonight... the total govt cost of ALL of the recent bailouts is $814,000,000,000

Add that to the $7,000,000,000,000 (TRILLION) in national debt, the $6,500,000,000,000 in trade debt to china...

"A few billion here, a few trillion there... after a while, you're talkin' some real money"!!

Every working American family owes $143,140 in debt to china and others holding "T" bills (US Govt P.O.D [Print on demand] funny money).

Dig deep boys, and "Bend over, here it comes again"!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, September 18, 2008, at 01:50:11 (ZULU)

A Leader doesn't say, "I'll provide leadership". A Leader says, "Here's the problem and this is what we are going to do to solve it". McCain is reacting to Obama and Obama is trying to panic us into a stampede.

These two yo-yos should calm down. I'm embarassed for them.

CDC'
Thursday, September 18, 2008, at 05:29:58 (ZULU)

Just after Ike went thru a south Texas Congressman, whose district was in the storms path and who stayed along with his family, was being interviewed. When asked how they had faired his reply was, "I made sure the family would be safe by having plenty of food, water and ammunition."

Now there is a man with the right priorities!!

Sarge

Sarge
Roswell, NM, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2008, at 08:48:29 (ZULU)

Click for the WSJ's take on the "rapid deleveraging".

Calmness is a virtue.

CDC'
Thursday, September 18, 2008, at 12:59:26 (ZULU)

CDC: Bloomberg the mayor, no dummy on finance (politics would be a different matter), predicts the next wave to be foriegn snubs on the next round of US debt auctioning. To some degree, this was already underway, but the "sweetened" shares of FM-FM kept things going thru the summer. Ha! Anyone wanna buy a few shares of Fannie/ Freddie? Come'on, I'll toss in a bridge. Once DC cannot pay its bills, the game is over. What they should do and what they will do can be expressed as 99:1 against the should. Slash the federal government from end to end is what is needed....but what is gonna happen is the big bluff of adding another row of printing machines at the mint (hence, Gumby reference). That will trash us.

Gold is just one place you should look. If you have a 401(k) that has options, shift toward ANY commodity linked fund. You may lose "money"---we all will, even if it is money already in our wallet---but gold, copper etc will maintain "purchasing power" regardless of the assigned "dollar" value of the whole. If you have ready cash reserves, buy a silo full of grain...think of "stuff" in terms of necessary to live. That is the new wealth.

The click-my-name this time is Time, explaining in layman's terms what wall street has done to us. Some of you have called me on the expert's analysis being distinctly different than my own. To that, I would say this: Think of a financial crisis as a big red bouncing ball in a magician's hands. All eyes are drawn to it. Today, this ball is wall street's woes. About 6 weeks ago, briefly all eyes went to bond markets. The experts have laser-focused on the sleight of hand, and still haven't realized that it is all part of the same magic trick: The dollar is exploding in numbers, and the value is imploding in real terms. Enter psychology (the hard part for me to grasp)--and there is a "lag" from one aspect of the crisis to the next, as people pursue the only model they know. That lag from one aspect to another reinforces that old human adage, "I believe what I want to believe." By having space between crisis, nobody really wants to think of them as one and the same--too horrible---these smart guys can tell themselves that "this is this problem", and "that is that problem," --all the while denying the really ugly possibility that they are one and the same. Human nature. Human nature can make this all go away too, though that is increasingly unlikely. If we all at once agree that no home in the US is worth less than 300K, and willingly pay it all at once---poof, no more crisis. We suck up all the inflation and loose dollars in one big bite. That's wishful thinking; my thought of slash and burn is the only course not needing a mass psychosis to get past this mess.

Interestingly, albeit only acedemically, the "depression" of 29-42 was said to be 'worsened" by tight Fed monetary policy. Thus today, we have stupidly "loose" money policy trying to stave off the collapse. Just yesterday, I advocated the medicine that the fed used in 29 (actually, 32)--but also advocated an undoing of all "new deal" shit with it. I've always felt that the Fed was correct back then, but Roosevelt blew it with his over-ride of tightened fiscal policy---you see, FDR used the government to print money any damned way, despite the fed. Too many miss this crucial dicotomy in policy--blaming the fed for deepening the crisis. Thus, our smart folks are taking the worng lesson. It was after posting it that I realized that I was parroting the original Fed response to the original depression (I really missed that). On the off-chance any one of you still listens to my rants, I thought I might wanna explain why the slashing of government spending is a must along with the emergency life-saving measure for the buck. One without the other is self canceling. Just ask the ghost of FDR...or take macro-Ec 101.

Or, think "micro-ec 101"....Let's say a Monet is up for sale. It is said to worth "millions." But I look in my wallet and decide it is only worth 50 bucks. Which is reality, mine or theirs? Now take a $1 loaf of bread. Last one on the shelf. Is it a dollar or does the guy who wants it the most have a fifty-spot on hand?

Lastly, can any of you imagine congress shutting down expenditures when soup lines start to form and nobody is working?

My prognosis: We are fucked.

Joe M
Thursday, September 18, 2008, at 14:26:43 (ZULU)

Joe, please allow me to interject a little bit of humor in the doom and gloom..... :-)

Youse guys have GOT to watch this video of McCain.....it appears to me this was an appearance on SNL or something. Gets in a couple really nice, and bone truthful, digs on her too, later on in the clip. This really is HILARIOUS.

http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com/archives/9404-McCain-sings-Streisand.html

Or click my name.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Thursday, September 18, 2008, at 21:03:31 (ZULU)

RE: AIG

They're books were murky, and have been under investigation for several years. Now we know the truth. Just another Enron....

Travelers, under Sandy Weil, broke the law when he merged the insurance/banking/investing services under one umbrella (I'll have to find the Business Week article....). Long story short, he broke a law made as a result of the collapse leading to the great depression. The fix wasn't to stop the merger, the fix was for congress to change the law (which happened).

So much for checks and balances....

Duman
Thursday, September 18, 2008, at 23:07:54 (ZULU)

Buffet is buying. Click.

"Buy when the cannons are firing, and sell when the trumpets are blowing." --Nathan Rothschild.

CDC'
Friday, September 19, 2008, at 06:24:08 (ZULU)

"RE: AIG

They're books were murky, and have been under investigation for several years. Now we know the truth. Just another Enron...."

Thats what I was thinkin when I saw Joe's post mentioning "Golden Parachutes" a couple,three days ago. I am also wondering if this is the beginning stages of a "National Healthcare Plan" the Clintons proposed years ago too.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Friday, September 19, 2008, at 07:30:04 (ZULU)

IBD has a reputation for getting it right when most people are getting it wrong. Click.

CDC'
Friday, September 19, 2008, at 12:18:35 (ZULU)

Hey Ya'll,

Anyone had a Brian Sain sighting since the great flood ? Just want to know if him and his family are OK.

On the finical fiasco... bottom line is the federal reserve system is a cartel of private banks and the value of everyone's labor and savings is subject to their whim.. Dig deep enough and you'll find we are just being robbed by a few with fellow conspirators in government..

Stay liquid

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Friday, September 19, 2008, at 13:19:49 (ZULU)

rifle country :-)

I have ordered a CZ 452 Silhouette model in .22LR .

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, September 19, 2008, at 16:32:50 (ZULU)

Calvin: A finiancial collapse shifts assets into the hands of that elite cabal of robber baron n=bankers you allude to. The step-by-step process that gets from here to there is so abstract as to defy explanation---particularly in this forum. But, by trashing the dollar, rendering it useless, they can at any time ressurect it or another currency at whim, while holding all the "paper' on our cars, homes, businesses...nobody can pay, cuz their policies ensured that, and then they own the world. Squeeze plays on desired assets that are NOT collateralized will complete the sweep. Power...it is raw, unconstrained by oversight or vote, and lords over such constructs as mere governments. If you know anything, then you know that Lincoln almost had it right. But the Rothschild-inspired cabal put the squash on his idea. For those who do not know---go find out. My propaganda is fairly biased.

Joe M
Friday, September 19, 2008, at 16:35:55 (ZULU)

Joe,

I could not agree more with you.. Once one understands the principals the details become unimportant. I think you may only be half right as to

the importance of discussing this on this forum.. I think the enemies of this republic should be exposed at every turn. Patriots everywhere ( and any one interested in freedom ) should have as much understanding of political/financial/moral enemies as well combatants on the battlefield.

Take a gander at this if your interested in learning more..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5232639329002339531&q=FIAT

But all of this is unimportant to me at the moment, Iv'e being a voice crying in the wilderness about this stuff for to long to even care anymore.. The real issue of the day is WHERE's SAIN ?

Stay liquid

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Friday, September 19, 2008, at 17:43:17 (ZULU)

IKE Quotation:

"I evaporated on the bus but now I beez back and I wants my respiration check from FEMA" - Unknown

lmao

brian k. sain
Friday, September 19, 2008, at 18:57:03 (ZULU)

Hey Brian,

Good quote and glad your still kicking !

Stay debris free

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Friday, September 19, 2008, at 19:56:20 (ZULU)

Ron Paul on the financial crash...click my name

medicjim
Friday, September 19, 2008, at 20:08:08 (ZULU)

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