Sniper Country Duty Roster

August 2008

IF ever I knew I was gonna go blind, the Tetons would be the last sight I'd want to see. That's the most beautiful country I've ever seen. I wish like hell I could afford to live there again. Too bad the wife doesn't like the idea of living in a bunkhouse so I can play cowboy for a living in the most beautiful place on earth!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, August 1, 2008, at 08:39:37 (ZULU)

Click.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, August 1, 2008, at 08:47:44 (ZULU)

Travis...

>"Too bad the wife doesn't like the idea of living in a bunkhouse so I can play cowboy for a living in the most beautiful place on earth!"<

I have come to the conclusion that God didn't intend men and women to live together for long periods... otherwise, he would have made women like different stuff...

... the stuff that guys like!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, August 1, 2008, at 16:24:44 (ZULU)

Joe great posts. My best buddy (Best man at my weddings and Godfather to children) just got back from year plus in Afghanistan, working enar Paki border with some of your buddies, says its pretty busy these days. Got to love this guy 49 yyears old, fifth tour and wishes he could stay but teenage son needs a dad to smack him into acting right now and then (Figure of speach guys no abuse here)

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Friday, August 1, 2008, at 17:55:51 (ZULU)

Gents: I did not realize that I knew as many as I do...

http://www.quietpros.com/host/comments.htm

One in particular:

http://www.groups.sfahq.com/5th/stack_michael_5sfg.htm

It seems I noted the passing of a friend at the time in my own way...but decided to stay focused on the job ahead. Now, with the time to reflect...well, it sux.

I know that this list is surprisingly few for the scope and length of combat operations that this group undertook. I thank god for that to this day. But, these guys are the "best" we have; tough job but tougher training and selection. To see this list as a daddy with a paratrooper in airborne training is NOT good for morale; by the time I got to Iraq--it was merely a formal test of over 20 years' experience; my kid is a cherry and will likely deploy as such.

That is sobering. Poor little shit...he reports for duty here as a "hometown recruiter." Little does he know that he will undertake a crash recondo course with an emphasis on COIN and basic markmanship under duress:)) I can't fill his head with all that I learned, but I can try to hit some of the high points.

Geoff: That M4gery will come in handy for more than just notsalgia, eh?

On the experience thing: It stands out in my mind how decentralized combat ops really leaned heavy on each and every aspect of my career and the knowledge gained along the way. From RTO procedures from my days as a line platoon radioman, to coordinating CAS from the cockpit to logistics at any and all levels, to the various SF MOSs---everything--every last little thing I ever did before was challenged over there. What a cool way to wrap it all up in the end.

But it is knowing why it was easy for me that makes me understand why it will be harder for my boy--or at least--scarrier for me. OTOH, if he listens, does what he is suppsoed to, and has a little of the luck his old man had--he will emerge with a leg up on me. The things i had to learn from the vietnam vets he will have learned for himslef. Those lessons of first hand experience are worth fifty second hand lessons.

Man...I have waaaay too much time to think about things.

Morgue: Click...heheh.

Joe M
Friday, August 1, 2008, at 20:38:18 (ZULU)

Morgue: and another...click. For all their desire to hide in a bunker--ya have to admit, they made great coffee, eh?

Joe M
Friday, August 1, 2008, at 20:58:17 (ZULU)

Markwell: "(Jackson)...realestate is out of control pricewise."

Hell, in Jackson a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken is out of control pricewise.

Give me a call before you drive out this season. We can kill something. It will be great.

CDC'
Saturday, August 2, 2008, at 03:18:14 (ZULU)

Guys,

Sig Sauer is finally coming out with a .22 conversion kit for the 220, 226, and 229 models. The P-220 version will be available August 08, the P-229 will be available September 08. Their website lists them at $269. Hopefully, they'll be cheaper through retailers. Click my name for the link. They're also having a promotion where, if you buy one of their "Classic" series this month, you can get one of their Airsoft models for $100.

I finally got the stuff to cast bullets, so I can save money, and hopefully sell some to other folks, but it's rather warm to be doing it right now, so the .22 conversion would be a handy way to go. I just hope the prices for extra .22 magazines won't be nearly as astronomical as their regular ones. $42 for an eight round 220 mag, or $49 for the ten round is kinda pricey, and their replacement springs and followers are just as bad.

Have any of you found a reason or need for the solid guide rod? Anyone have an opinion on the short reset trigger?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, August 2, 2008, at 04:58:52 (ZULU)

>>>>> Their website lists them at $269. <<<<<<

Look closer, Travis. They're listed for $369.

Had me interested there for a minute.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, August 2, 2008, at 15:50:13 (ZULU)

Diesel fuel- Anyone know if off-road diesel is state road tax free or all road tax free? I occasionally pass a pump with off road, but it's only 20 some cents off regular price.

The little microbes that can live in diesel can really screw things up if someone dumps biocide in and lets it steep the way you're supposed to. I once realized I was using it wrong and dumped it in, then let the truck sit 3 days or so (like you're supposed to). I then made a short trip, but the last 10 miles or so, 35 was as fast as I could go. Went through 3 sets of filters in a week before all the dead critters/crud was out of the system.

Fortunately, my big truck has 2 filters. One on the suction line from the tank to the transfer pump (rocks & dog hair filter) and one before the Bosch injection pump (real fine).

WR Moore
Saturday, August 2, 2008, at 17:17:55 (ZULU)

To add to what has already been asked... what is required to store diesel for long periods of time. Is a biocide recommended at some interval? I guess winter mix is preffered when the time of year the reserve will be tapped is unknown.

medicjim
Saturday, August 2, 2008, at 17:37:27 (ZULU)

Mr. Moore,

If you get caught running off road diesel on the highway, the fine is at least $5,000, here in Ks.. I've heard that in some areas, the highway patrol was really cracking down, and they actually carry a rod to dip into your tank and check. I suppose you could run a truck with dual tanks, one with highway, and one with off-road deisel.

I've also heard rumors(unconfirmed) of folks being charged with tax evasion (highway tax) for using homemade bio-fuels or running SVO.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, August 2, 2008, at 18:50:57 (ZULU)

STA-BIL Fuel Stabilizer

(click)

edited: Well, maybe not. They used to sell the Sta-bil for diesel but I'm not seeing it on their site.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, August 2, 2008, at 20:56:59 (ZULU)

Rosterfarians,

I just published a review on Plaster's "The History of Sniping and Sharpshooting", which I actually finished end of March and somehow never got to publishing. Click on my name to see the review. And I trust those that have already read it agrees with me, and those that but it also do so. I think it is an excellent book.

Marius

Marius
Saturday, August 2, 2008, at 21:27:03 (ZULU)

Travis-I've got sufficient diesel powered ag equipment for the diesel to be worth buying if the price difference is sufficient. Given the size of the fillers on my big truck, I wouldn't dream of doing ag fuel on road. You wouldn't need a dipstick. The F-250 now......

Exactly what do you mean by long term storage on diesel? Also depends upon what you're gonna use it for. I've stored diesel for 6 months or so in the plastic jugs. All I've used is what's now CRC Fuel Therapy for injector cleaning/anti-gel. If you were doing really long term storage, I think the biocide and a large supply of filters would be a good idea. I do have to admit that when I clogged up my filters, it was most likely the first time biocide had been properly used in my truck in 10 or 12 years (I wasn't the orignal owner).

FWIW, I don't really trust the "winter blend" stuff. I converted the guys at my local auto parts to the use of the cleaner/anti-gel noted above after they tried it and their "winter blend" home heating oil didn't freeze up anymore.

I second Ken with screw the electronic engines. We've spent upwards of 2 grand on electronics on the 96 F250. My mechanical engine has twice the mileage (300,000+) and I've replaced the thermostat, water pump and block heater. Whoops, recored the radiator if you want to count that.

WR Moore
Sunday, August 3, 2008, at 12:22:37 (ZULU)

These guys (click) claim a 1,000+yd antelope kill. Do any of you gentlemen have any comments?

CDC'
Monday, August 4, 2008, at 04:14:10 (ZULU)

CDC

I read something aabout him on the Longrangehunting site. He's promoting himself and his business. Shooting an animal at 1000 yds. isn't my cup of tea. I enjoy long range shooting, and i enjoy hunting , but damn give the animal a chance. Part of hunting for me is to see how good my stalking skills are. If iremember right the rifle is the 338 Edge with a 30" barrel The cartridge was desige by Shawn Carlock of Defensive Edge. He's in your part of the country over by the Washington border.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Monday, August 4, 2008, at 11:36:48 (ZULU)

CDC: A sniper taking a shot at 1000 yards may think "better this opportunity than none at all." And, if a trick of the wind drifts his round off the mark but he still wounds his target---it is all part of the package: Now, the enemy has to move the wounded. Three for the cost of one round are now doing something other than fighting back:)) I kinda sort the animal kingdom into two categories: The tasty ones and the claw/ fanged ones (another catagory is the 'who cares?" ones). In that, it is sorta like combatants and non combatants. The predators play the game, so they do not get much consideration for shot placement so much as "shot on sight" around here. I'll worry about placement with the follow ups. But the by-standers that taste good seem to deserve a clean kill; their only fault in life is their tasty good protein for the freezer:)) To me, that calls for surety in placement...and I hate it when they suffer even a little in the process. For all the fun of stalking--why sit back and blast away at those ranges? Hooved critters aren't in the business of predation; they deserve clean dispatch. Probably a wierd way to look at it, but that is how I evolved my ehtics: Good guys and bad guys. Then again, I live among them too. A big cat is not "an interesting sight" around here--it is direct competetion and a danger to my offspring:)) A difference, I think, from the view of a townie.

Unemployment jumped to 5.7% last month. I did not hear Harry and Nancy bragging about their simultaneous rise in the minimum wage by some 70 cents per hour that went into effect right at the head of this surge in lost jobs:)) I wonder why?

Joe M
Monday, August 4, 2008, at 14:02:49 (ZULU)

re: 1000 yd edible game animal hunting

He doesn't need my concurrance, but I agree with Joe. The ethical contract hunters should have with edible game is to try and make their demise quick. It is certainly possible to kill game animals at 1000 yds, but there are so many last-second variables that are only vaguely controllable. Up there with hunting polar bears with a .357 magnum revolver :-) Possible, not recommeded.

(the polar bear thing would be a pretty fair fight :-)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, August 4, 2008, at 22:30:56 (ZULU)

Mr. Moore,

On the F-250, even if you have the anti-siphon doohickey in the tank hose, you can still see through the fuel filter, can't you?

If the local DA is really trying to be a dick, (as is their wont) you're screwed. From what I've heard, they'll still take it to trial, and (again, this is just hearsay,) arguing that you have dual tanks and run the ag fuel tank while offroading on the farm, then switching to the road fuel tank on the highway is a losing defense. You'd think those fuckers had something better to do.

Apparently, providing the steaks and other food they eat during the celebration they have when they bury another farmer gets you no consideration. I'm not so sure I like lawyers as much as 'Lito does.

Also, I concur with you on all the damned electronics and sensors on new vehicles. It seems that over half of the repairs I have to do on my vehicles have to do with sensors. Damned O2 sensors on one car we had ran about $300, just for the parts.(This was about 6 years ago) Then I had to figure out how to get the low slung sonofabitch lifted up high enough to get my big ass under it without setting it on one of the bumpers. Once I finally did, I almost had to saw the exhaust open to get to the wire inside of it to install the new sensor!

Speaking of 'Lito, HEY, CATMAN! How's the kid?

Haven't heard much from JR or the other guy across the pond lately, either, have we? I miss getting to try and figure out what you guys are talking about, when it comes to all the technical speak about barrels and such. I wish to hell I could apprentice under some of you guys. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to get the taste of ass out of my mouth, the way I've been sucking up to the top gunsmiths in my area, trying to get a paying gig where I could learn from a master.

On the 1K hunting, you'll notice that he never posts videos of game dying from infections weeks after being poorly shot. These poor animals suffer because the shooters(I REFUSE to call the "hunters") were unable to catch up to the critters, or even track them because they were too damn far away, and a follow up shot would be a miracle, if it worked.

I've seen critters dying of infection when I was working on ranches, some from predator attacks, some from wire cuts or assholes taking potshots at them with their .22's. I've also seen poorly shot game animals dying from infection when I was working for outfitters. It's a horrible, miserable, suffering way to die.

On one ocassion, we had a hunter actually choose to shoot a mediocre elk in an area full of trophy quality animals, early in his 7 day hunt, simply because someone had wounded it through the top of a front leg, and it was suffering pretty bad and was pretty worn out, since his home range was the ranch I was working on, which was crawling with hunters, and bordered a public hunting area that was even worse.

If it would have been within my power, I'd have offered the guy a free hunt the following year. You just don't see people exhibiting that kinda character on a $7,000 hunt very often. It was a real nice thing to see, when our typical hunter tended to carry a Boone and Crockett list and a tape measure. Some of those bastards would react like a petulant 3 year old when the trophy THEY had insisted on shooting, against their guide's advice experienced ground shrinkage. Those kinda folks were the worst part of the job.

I'm impressed by this guy on youtube's shooting ability, but disappointed in his sportsmanship. IMNSHO, it's merely a dumb stunt. As such, it should be reserved to rocks, steel, targets, and the like. I even have a problem with doing this to coyotes, as much as I hate them.

Sorry for the length of this post. Insomnia seems to make me more verbose.

.......one last question: The boy told me today he wants to shoot his first turkey this year.(He's Twelve) I'm not much of a shotgun guy. What kinda practice would you guys suggest? I was thinking I could set up a bunch of bowling pins, out to about 50 yards, and have him practice shooting the tops of those. Anyone have better ideas? What Turkey loads are considered the "old standbys"?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, August 5, 2008, at 05:07:29 (ZULU)

I dont have a problem on a 1,000 antelope shot.More power to the guy that can do it CLEANLY and SAFELY.In the antelope vid it was about as clean a shot as a guy is gonna get.Background is clear.Antelope is bedded and never moved after the shot.That is the best it gets.

But there is also a vid on U-tube where the same guy takes an 870 yrd shot on a Bull Elk across from the next ridge over and the Elk is in heavy timber untill it enters a small clearing and he shoots just as its in the clearing.In the Elk vid he does give a lil more background on the equipment,408CT,custom scope,custom reticle,etc...This one I still question...Even tho there is no Blaze Orange visable during the Elk vid as they panned around abit.To me heavy timber is no place for poke and hopes.

Some States (sorry,dont remember wich)have banned or are in the process of banning hunting with Heavy Rifles,if the rifle/scope combo (loaded?) weighs more then xxlbs it will get ya a ticket/confiscation if caught.I believe that it is those States thinking that Big Bores need weight to tame them....or Search and Rescue is sick and tired of haulin some lazy ass whose 30 yr diet of 99cent heart attacks has put him 50lbs overweight and the carrying of an 18lb rifle resulted in a blown ticker.

I learned of the Heavy Rifle Ban(s) researching a few things in the last year or so looking for other game to hunt.Wisconsin's White Tail is some of the best,and the Turkey can be just as good,But waitin for a Bear Kill Tag will wear on your patience some.And we dont have huntable Elk or Mulies...and there isnt any Antelope either.

Some people question the ethics in long range hunting.I wonder how many of those same people turn around and actually question the ethics in Bow Hunting.Even if the animal is 20yrds of standin full broadside and ya double lung it....It still doesnt drop Dead Right There.Some take 100 yrds or more to die.

Either way...20 yrds or 1,000 yrds,its on your conscience if ya fuck it up.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi., USA - Tuesday, August 5, 2008, at 06:06:41 (ZULU)

Unpat,

IF I shoot an animal with a bow, and hit it poorly, I'm at least close enough to track it down and finish it off. Mr. Long shot, however, will just about need a spotter, a pickup, and some radios just to get to where the critter was when he wounded it. His chances of recovering a poorly hit animal are pretty damned slim.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, August 5, 2008, at 06:24:19 (ZULU)

Travis,

If ya havent done so check your States Regs on what ya can/cant use.Some States allow Rifle use....Mine dont.We can use #4 to #6 shot.I personally like Copper Coated silicon Packed #4's Federal.I also use an Undertaker Turkey choke but a Full will work well...The hardest thing to remember is to sight it like a rifle....Not point in the general area like say shooting a Pheasant/Grouse or Traps...Tho shooting trap with the Undertaker in was/is good practice for me.Turkey dont always stand still....and if ya see that neck stretch waaaay out...blast him quick,cause he is about to fly off.Forget the body shot.Its all head/neck to get the kill with a scattergun.

The only differance between a 20yard broadhead wounded animal and 1,000 yrd bullet wounded animal is 980yrds...A wound is a wound,and wounded animals run damn fast...wether 20 yrds out or 1000 yrds.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi., USA - Tuesday, August 5, 2008, at 06:32:39 (ZULU)

CDC May not be heading west to work in hunting camp this Fall. Don't know if there's enough money to be made with the High cost of fuel.

Went to Montana for an extended varmint hunting trip this Spring, May thru late June (was on the road 49 days), Total fuel was around $2900. It's a good thing I can live on the cheap ($15/day or less) or I couldn't go anywhere. Also, planning trip to SHOT this winter and contemplating a new rifle from Ultralight Arms here in WV. So much to do with only so much money; the projects/trips/$s equation never seem to quite work out the way I want it to.

My son just got his Patriot Arms Rifle in 7-08; WOW!!! Quite the nice piece of gear

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Tuesday, August 5, 2008, at 13:17:41 (ZULU)

Gents,

Its been busy out here the last few weeks. Pretty much long days short weeks.

I ordered a couple toys a while back. Just talked to the dealer I ordered one of them from it sounds like production got put behind schedule...

I was able to go run some yardlines Sat and went out to 700 yards. It was a good time then sunday we went out and Shot some clays. I haven't felt that relaxed in a while seems I need to get out more often.

Before sat it had been a bit since I had a chance to get out to any type of distance and I was still able to keep a sub minute group at 700. More than anything what it requires is knatts a$$ wind calls.

As to LONG range hunting, Has anyone been out hunting Big horn? I have heard that There are places where you can get 400 if you are lucky. If you aren't, you could be looking at a 700 yard shot. If you had spent 10k on a hunt and the closest you could get was 500 - 1000 yards would you or wouldn't you take the shot? I understand that enviromentals come in to play but in an Ideal situation, shooting with a system you are familiar with using proven dope could you really pass up on the shot?

Just my 2 cents.

I had a chance to play with the AI stock on a Remington 700. I was pretty impressed. Enough that if I had one I would start saving money to pick one up.

Anyways gents, Back to the grind

Morgue

Joe,

Those pictures sure brought back some memories. Did you happen to look close enough to recognize the old running loop? BWG.

Bravo,

My buddy ended up going with the Gerber infantry blade. He found a deal online that he got 2 for about 130ish...

Medic Jim,

Glad to hear you are doing better.

Mourge
SD, Ca, - Tuesday, August 5, 2008, at 16:30:16 (ZULU)

Long Range Shooting of Game

A friend of mine is part owner of a safari gig in South Africa. On his last trip, one of the clients was described as arrogant and impatient (wealthy and spoiled). Long story short, a bad shot on a cape buffalo resulted in several days of tracking, both on foot and helicopter. Never found the wounded animal. The cost of tracking was several thousand dollars, all added to his tab.

Instant karma is a beautiful thing, but far too rare.

Duman
Tuesday, August 5, 2008, at 16:53:05 (ZULU)

"The cost of tracking was several thousand dollars, all added to his tab."

He got off easy...Most that make that mistake on Cape pay in blood.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Tuesday, August 5, 2008, at 19:26:17 (ZULU)

UnPat,

"He got off easy...Most that make that mistake on Cape pay in blood."

They probably couldn't get the sniveling sonofabitch to go into the bush for a followup. I'm fairly certain though, that once he got back to wherever he came from, and onto a golf course, he remembered going into the brush holding a knife in his teeth while his PH and everyone else went running back to the truck. I hate those kinda guys.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, August 5, 2008, at 21:07:57 (ZULU)

Duman: Ask yuor PH amigo if he knows anyplace/anyone in SA that runs photo safaris. I'd like to go, but I just can't get behind killing for sport anymore. Thanks.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, August 6, 2008, at 03:08:30 (ZULU)

On the 1000 yd antelope vid (click) they show some footage that appears to have been shot through the scope. The shooter doesn't adjust his crosshairs; He uses a mil dot. The mil-dot is perfectly - and suspisciously - "on" at 1011 yards.

His sight-picture moves slightly but chaotically. Slightly is enough.

The guy doesn't seem to be using a rear bag for support.

I think that this guy with this gun leaves wounded animals in the field.

CDC'
Wednesday, August 6, 2008, at 05:46:07 (ZULU)

Travis,

Funny,how when the Chivas/JD/Kesslers flows with those types the brush gets taller,the knife smaller,and the horns/teeth bigger,and ya cant forget the number of fellow hunters that were saved from being trampled by a herd of ______...Could you expect less from the type?

After all,they have a Masters,P.H.D,and B.S.

But one soon learns the tells of a Master of Piled Higher and Deeper Bull Shit.

CDC,

If you think he has the jitters in the Antelope vid,Check out his 830yrd Elk vid.A drunk goin thru DT's could hold more solid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCyTRzL5AAQ&feature=related

I had originally mentioned it was an 870yrd shot.My mistake.Its an 830yrd shot.I learned of both vids over a year ago and in the this one there is no mention of the Chey-Tac,wich is kinda strange as I was very sure in one of those vids is where I had first learned of it.

One thing is very solid ,tho.I,personally would pass on going to this guys long range course/school.I am not saying I wouldnt learn anything from the guy.I probably would and could,but that Elk shot in timber bothers me.There were also a couple of lines on the guys website about long range hunting that bothered me also.

He makes it sound like long range hunting is the tool to beat out someone else that may be hunting/stalking the same animal you spotted/glassed.That is a recipe for disaster waiting for a place to happen.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi., USA - Wednesday, August 6, 2008, at 11:07:05 (ZULU)

Gentlemen; UnPat wrote "Check out his 830yrd Elk vid. (click) A drunk goin' thru DT's could hold more solid."

The Elk vid shows the rifle oscillating from about 2:30 to 8:30. I have always understood that - if your oscillations were not 6:00 to 12:00 with a pause at 6:00 - your position was bad.

Earlier this year I posted:

" As you breathe, the crosshairs oscillate between 6:00 and 12:00. When your breathing pauses, the oscillations slow dramatically for a couple of seconds until most of the remaining oscillations are caused by the beating of your heart. The crosshairs still move between 6:00 and 12:00 but they move much less and they move very regularly for, oh, 6 to 12 seconds more or less. At very near 6:00 the crosshairs pause. 6:00 is where you want your point of aim. After that (time) interval, the tension in your muscles and the body's desire to breathe cause an increase in the amplitude of the oscillations."

Did I get that wrong?

CDC'
Wednesday, August 6, 2008, at 12:28:08 (ZULU)

Charles: Maybe that beer we'll have someday is going to come with a great conversation. In the past couple of years, I watched more deer thru my sights than I shot, mainly because I wasn't in the mood to shoot.

Joe M
Wednesday, August 6, 2008, at 13:33:00 (ZULU)

Joe,

Maybe you should try guiding. It's actually quite a bit of fun. Basically, you get paid to hunt all year, and let hunters shove money in your hand and buy you booze!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, August 6, 2008, at 14:30:15 (ZULU)

Joe, Charles,

It's funny how we that have seen death up close have a special feeling about life the older we get.

At Khe San (SP) it was told that they found a C-rats box lid with the following words written on it. It may explain the feelings:

" You've never lived 'til you've almost died.

For those who fought for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know."

Just thought I'd toss that in.

Indiansinger

Roger C. Carpenter
Sweet Potato Capital, MS, USA - Wednesday, August 6, 2008, at 14:48:31 (ZULU)

Travis...

The Kidlet is doing fine - finished up the year with a "A" average (five A+ and one B+), and he is as happy as a clam at high tide. The chicks flirt with him (he's goooood lookin' - a real chick magnet!)

On long range critter shootin'...

I'm with Joe on it. In my way of thinking, I have different standards for different critters...

... there are noble beasts that deserve the very best treatment in taking them with a quick, clean kill.

Antelope are at the top of that list... along with Elk and similar.

Further down are the pests and nuisance animals like Prairie Dogs, Woodchucks, and crows. I don't want to wound them on purpose and will take reasonable care when shooting, but I will take very long shots at them.

Then there are the destructive critters. A coyote or feral dog that is taking live stock gets no mercy, and by many rancher's definition, they are ALWAYS taking stock... with which I agree.

With those, I think it is OK to toss lead at them at any range, and if it gets hit in the hind quarters and goes off to die somewhere tomorrow, well - life's a bitch when you get caught stalking someone else's livestock.

A family member had a cattle spread near Shiro TX, and their losses to yotes and ferals was astronomical.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, August 6, 2008, at 15:15:50 (ZULU)

Indiansinger: The whole hunting thing boils down to freezer stockage. My wife has become extremely proficient at filling the freezer (and enjoys doing so with gusto)--so i am not compelled to pull the trigger at any given critter. I know i can, and am positioned well to do so....and lately, that has been good enough to satisfy my ego. Saying "gotcha" can be as fun as "boom." Besides, my wife keeps me busy enough skinning and packing as it is. Charles' idea to hunt with a camera is cool...maybe I'll get one of those digital scopes and remote feed it to my video camera.

Lito: Ha! I am starting to think I have "arrived." I admire this place and the original members to the Nth degree. In fact, my thinking on matters of character has altered for the better thru the philosophies' found here. Thanks for the nod...you probably have no idea how well received it is to me. Great news on the ruggus' scholastic turn-about! No one here needed proof that you were in the right; but it is just plain great that you got to prove it to the "system" and she-who-is-not-named. Double ha! for the chick-magnet thing; Blake's mom and I agree that our poor boy is unprepared for the coming onslaught of chippies. His good looks are finally matched to a new confidence that is, well, scary as hell to mom: She ain't ready for grandmothership yet--and that boy is gonna get trapped sure as shit. He is an obvious great "catch"--and he is equally oblivious to it. He has little chance...

An odd little article that explains the American capital market model---in a roundabout way. Click only if yer good and bored. I took note of this one because it was a bit of an "eureka moment" for me for a problem I've been contemplating lately: The US automotive industries' seemingly suicidal marketing ploys. I've been beating GM up for focusing so much on shareholder returns that they never looked past the current business quarter for the last 50 years. Their ability to trash next year for this month knows no bounds. In fact, I have had limited access to top level corporate decisions that would astound anyone (a reserve SF buddy is atop a major supplier)...so, to see this industry march to its demise is fascinating--but also freakishly bizarre. This article--with investor goals laid out and congressional input factored in explains another aspect to this slow motion failure in progress. I read between the lines a bit and said "aha...so there's the government's hand in all this." The more I read, study and watch cause/ effects for myself in all aspects of the economic model--the more I find congress at the bottom of all our economic ills. The irony here is that they see themselves as the solution to the same:)) God, please save us from their help...amen.

Joe M
Wednesday, August 6, 2008, at 16:23:37 (ZULU)

Joe, MedicJim....don't get me wrong. If I get the chance to make a photo safari, I'm taking a really cool camera. And a BIG faarkin' gun. I hear some critters can't tell the difference between a Nikon and a .416 Rigby in one's hands.....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, August 6, 2008, at 17:25:29 (ZULU)

Damned ironic name for a guv'mint entity (even by the dry humor Britt standard)...aka, Nat'l Health Care if we follow that road ourselves. Ever wonder why the NYT or other MSM ignore these stories crossing their wires?

Joe M
Thursday, August 7, 2008, at 04:31:54 (ZULU)

Click for a list of Obama's lies and the true story of each.

And, I just thought I'd add:

In the last few years of reading and posting on this site, I've learned a lot from you guys, and I just wanted to say, "Thank you".

Whether it's been asking newb questions when I first got into scoped bolt guns, questions when I got into action pistol type shooting, helping me learn how to reload, or the kind words and support when my grandad died and I was having a hard time dealing with it, you guys have always been there with support, kind words, and suggestions when I needed them, or some rather caustic words that showed me the other side of an issue, I certainly do appreciate it.

It seems wierd to refer to people that I've never met face to face as "friends", but I do consider most of you as just that. Some day, I'd like to meet some of you guys, as I'm sure there's a lot I could learn from a lot of you. If ever any of you guys are in my area, give me a holler. If nothing else, we can grill some burgers.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, August 7, 2008, at 04:46:15 (ZULU)

I concur with Travis. Though I don't post much, I read you guys daily & consider many here as friends.

What about a Duty Roster Rondevous? I'm not thinking of a big to-do, but rather a location (with a range) where Rosterfarians who care to can meet, swill an adult beverage (or five), and put faces with names. It's late in the season to think of something like this for this year, but the majority of the planning for this would be in choosing the location. Then we all pretty much make our own plans for travel, etc. Perhaps we could get as organized as to get a group rate at the Hotel, and to coordinate with the range.

Anyone else interested? Suggestions for location? Oak Ridge TN comes to my mind, but probably only because it's convenient.

SSG Mac
Thursday, August 7, 2008, at 10:44:08 (ZULU)

Come to think on it, Bobby, haven't you done this several time out at your place?

SSG Mac
Thursday, August 7, 2008, at 10:54:33 (ZULU)

Travis,

It's not 'weird', it's a brotherhood.

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Thursday, August 7, 2008, at 11:05:18 (ZULU)

Travis...

Don't fret Dudeski...

I have more REAL friends on this site, than have in the state that I live in.

Little things, big pleasures.

I have a 308/7.62 Israeli Galil ARM, which is the last and best iteration of the AK... better than the Finish version.

It has an incredible folding stock (Israeli engineering!!!), built in, drop down bi-pod (with barbed wire cutter), bayonet lug, night "Tritium" sights, and all the other badd stuff you could ask for (except the three speed transmission) :).

I bought it way back in the early 90's, just before the great white "father" in Washington decided that I (and my fellow Americans) were not responsible enough to own such a weapon of mass destruction.

As the clouds of laws began to form over Washington, and the likes of Shurmer, Bradey, and others were having wet dreams of an assault weaponless, gunfree society, I was cobbling up pieces parts for my new love.

I scarfed about 15 big-assed magazines (the ones that are responsible for drive-bys).

One of the really neat things about this stick is the scope mount - unlike the clugie mounts that sit on top of the stamped bolt cover... this mount is a milled slot in the side of the receiver - if you can imagine a mill cutter that is flat faced with a 45 degree bevel (looks like an engine valve with an attitude) - push it down into a flat surface about 1/10", then run if along the surface for an inch, so you have a 5/8" wide, 1/10" deep slot - that's what it is.

The mount uses a beveled plate that slides into the grove, and with a small cam lever, locks the thing together. The tolerances are in the thou's, so it comes back to zero every time. It is quick detach (three seconds).

But I couldn't find an original mount for love or money. I bought an after-market POS so I could use a scope, but it was really a POS. and the scope sat up too high, so I cannibalized it for another project.

Then about 6 years later, I came across an original NIC (new in cosmoline) mount for $500 (ouchie!!!), and wasn't going to get it until a friend told me what he paid for his ($900), so I grabbed it up.

Getting closer...

The original mount uses NATO STANAG mount scopes - which is a scope with a long solid bar on the bottom that is machined as part of the scope body - it has two threaded holes in it. Two heavy screws attach the scope the the mount - it is ringless, neat and clean, and idiot proof.

But I can't find a STANAG scope that I can efford. Hensolt, the military division of Zeiss, makes them and they are out of my budget range... and I saw one and didn't like it (it has a simple vertical post reticle), and I couldn't even find one if I had the money.

Well... last week, a 4x STANAG scope shows up on eBay. It is a copy of the Hensolt, but with a neat range finding reticle that is lit with a red LED, and ballistic cam. It is probably assembled in Papua New Guinea by nekid native women, but it looks nice on the outside, well finished, looks good through the inside. I got it for $59 delivered.

So now the Galil is complete, and I have a smile on my face the size of a railroad car.

Happiness for $59 bucks :))))))))))))))))

Now... lemme see - where can I do a drive by and test out this baddassed rig ;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, August 7, 2008, at 14:11:57 (ZULU)

All,

As to friends and friendships here on the Roster, I can agree with that. For about 10 years I've read here almost daily, and seen many come and go. But those who've stayed, wow.

I've conversed with some via email, and still others via phone.

And it is appreciated more than I can actually say. I've had many come and go in my life so far, and here is 'stable', and even 'reliable'.

Consistant fits as well. It's the straighforwardness that you get here, as opposed to the PC crap in general society that is respected the most.

And I thank you all for that. Now as to meeting up, sure, my door is always open. ;)

I'd love to be able to show up for a visit, with pretty much everyone. Logistics would be a small issue, and I may have to research that a touch!

Sean T.
Winnipeg, Mb. , Can. - Thursday, August 7, 2008, at 15:55:32 (ZULU)

re: Galil in .308

A Harris newsstand publication several years ago had a test drive of the Galil in .308. The reviewer claimed POI shift with/without front bipod usage. I suspect the bipod is tied to the barrel rather than the receiver which would account for it.

Something to test for early-on...

Other than that issue it was favourably reviewed, althought it does tend towards heavy. Don't remember how badly it mangled fired brass.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, August 7, 2008, at 16:57:43 (ZULU)

Sean:

Taking your favourite stick south is a bit convoluted, but do-able.

Need a valid hunting license or a written invite to a match as part of the supporting paperwork. BATFE form 6A I believe.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, August 7, 2008, at 17:00:33 (ZULU)

"lito, you're on the east coast, where ISN't a good spot for a driveby? ;)

Used to have a Valmet, way back when(late 80's), was very nice, for an AK. Really don't have much use for AK's, they are nice as loaner rifles for my minions. I thought about getting a AK-74 varient just to exploit the $100/1000 5.45 ammo right now. But I decided to get a couple crates more of 5.56 and stockpile it when I saw they wanted better than %700 for anything decent. Since I can remember paying less than $100 for a bleeding AK and $39 for an SKS and I'm not that old.

Based on ammo prices, I've gotten serious about casting again. Have another of the good Rugers on order (#1 in 45/70) and have been playing with one of the Serbian Rem mini-mausers (M799's) in 7.62x39. The stock is pretty, for a laminate, the action is gritty and needs to be lapped, but the accuracy is PDG, especially for a .312 bore. El crappo 123gn FMJ wolf goes into 3" at 200yds and I figure a 190gn cast flat nose poking out at 1400fps or so will be a nice large caliber plinker that won't upset the neighbors too much.

Joe M/Geoff or any other WI types, you go to your state fair down in Milwaukee? I plan on going this weekend, always had fun, great food and not all the urban drama(read gang warfare) like with the Chicago based festivals. They have the best pork chop sam'ich I've ever had. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Thursday, August 7, 2008, at 21:50:52 (ZULU)

Ken: It's a five hour jaunt--so I am passing it up this year:) Gotta save the tires for the Georgia trip starting O/A the 18th. Besides, if I did travel before then--I'd hit the duece convention in St Louie. No pork sammies there, but the beer would drown out the flavor anyway:))

FWIW: I had the hold-company's 1SG "hold" my boy an extra week "to work on his push-ups." The real reason, we both agreed, was so that his grad date would not fall on the 82d convention's final weekend! That way, some of my old (and that is getting all too literal) buds can make it down for Blake's inaugural jump into the frat. These guys watched him go from diapers to a T-10...it is only fitting that there be no conflicts in schedules.

Joe M
Thursday, August 7, 2008, at 22:12:44 (ZULU)

http://chu65nang67.us/nam/vietnam.html

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, Usa - Thursday, August 7, 2008, at 22:40:55 (ZULU)

Ken M...

>""lito, you're on the east coast, where ISN't a good spot for a driveby? ;)"<

You guys crack me up!!

rod...

>"A Harris newsstand publication several years ago had a test drive of the Galil in .308. The reviewer claimed POI shift with/without front bipod usage."<

What the hell does Harris know???

Anyway, it's a fun stick, and on that famous CDI scale of 1 to 10, it rates a definite 13.7 for technological kewl-ness!

;)))))

As soon as the Attorney General lets the local range open up, I'll test it with the new scope and let you know.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, August 8, 2008, at 00:56:56 (ZULU)

SSG MAC,

Yes sir..we usually have a gathering on New Years Day. What better way to ring in the new year than to ring steel. I think it would be fun to have a "Gathering", and if ya'll want to use BadLands, more than welcome to do so. Heck, you can even stay at the dormitory, that should save some the motel fees.

Bobby Whittington
Grandfield, OK, USA - Friday, August 8, 2008, at 01:45:08 (ZULU)

'lito-san...

Glad to hear Ruggus Rattus is doing so well in school. How goes the shafting of the legal ass-holes?

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Friday, August 8, 2008, at 03:39:25 (ZULU)

Sharon...

>"How goes the shafting of the legal ass-holes?"<

It has been a long road - you got a 7-11 and some asshole swipes a few cartons of smokes, and you get ten police cars in 3 minutes...

... but you get 15 pounds of evidence that there is a group of lawyers fixing trials on the court system, and you got 20 pages of hard evidence that a judge was bought... I have been kicking at doors for two friggin years.

I do have some good (I think) news. The state police "Major Crimes Division" called last week and said they will take the case and the Attorney Generals Office sent copies on an 18 page "cover letter" to three major agencies, including the Judicial Review, the Chief Prosecutors office, and internal audits (what would be called "internal affairs" elsewhere).

I have a 4 hour meeting with the internal affairs people on the 18th.

I think it will go forwards, just not as fast as I would like (... I mean TWO FUCKIN' YEARS???).

I hit my first attorney with a 1.5 mil law suit for mal-practice.

I wasn't paying much attention to it over the past few years, cuz I was trying to stay one step ahead of my ex's lawyers (and did :))... so by the time it was over, and the munchkin was here, in school, and all a-ok - I checked on the situation of suing my first lawyer, and found that the statute of limitations ran out in THREE DAYS. :(((

So I whipped up a lawsuit and filed it, and got it served the day before the statute ran out (wheeew).

But now I'm looking for a lawyer to take the case on contingency and finish it, cuz real high level law suits are a mine field of technicalities, and if you make a mistake, they can have it dismissed on the spot, and you can't refile.

But... in the last few months since I filed it, I have been reading and going over the documents, and they meet and exceed the behavior of Felony Fraud - they took my case and my money, without ever planing to go to court for a trial... and the did it to another guy three years before me.

I got a call from their attorney today - actually, he is the mal-practice insurance company lawyer who is defebnding my first lawyers - and I told him that the three of us need to sit down together and clean this up and come to a settlement, because if it has to go to trail, his clients (my first attorneys) will be there in handcuffs without law licenses, cuz I'll file criminal charges against them and shut them down.

So if I don't get a decent settlement, they both go to jail, and don't collect 200 dollars.

I don't know what will happen - it's like 5 card stud - you see what you got, and play it the best you can.

If I can find a lawyer to finish it up, I will be in pig city, cuz it's a case that a law student could win fresh out of law school...

Meanwhile, I am so fucking bored with this shit that I could scream!

I want a bottle of Morgan's dark rum, a pint of lime jooce, and a $200 hooker...

... over and over and over...

... for a week!!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, August 8, 2008, at 04:47:24 (ZULU)

Better make that a "barrel of Morgan's..."

Cuz a hooker that would charge 200 per week is gonna be one ugly skank:))

Joe M
Friday, August 8, 2008, at 06:52:51 (ZULU)

Joe: I could send 'Lito my ex-. She cost me $300 a week, but other than that, she fits your description to a "T".

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, August 8, 2008, at 07:08:49 (ZULU)

"Joe M/Geoff or any other WI types, you go to your state fair down in Milwaukee? I plan on going this weekend, always had fun, great food and not all the urban drama(read gang warfare) like with the Chicago based festivals. They have the best pork chop sam'ich I've ever had. S/F.....Ken M"

Ken M,

I got faired out on the last trip up to my Sis's.My niece is in her first year of 4H,earned a few ribbons on the goats,but the real kicker was her calf.Earned 3 class champs,a Grand Champ and Champ of Champs...Not bad for a first year kid,never having showed anything before.She also was asked from one of the judges to show his own goats when he takes his for confirmation shows.

This weekend got plans to head up to my Sis's place again.Angel is doin some work on her pc and since I only know how to turn them on,I figured I would kill some time at the range just outside of town.

Oh,and it aint State Fair w/out a cream puff...so ya gotta grab one of them too.

'Lito,

$200 is only gonna get ya something that a shot of penicillan wont fix.Think ya might be better off with a dvd and a 6pak...

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Friday, August 8, 2008, at 07:49:33 (ZULU)

Its a beautiful day for a colonoscopy..............at 07:00 my nether-regions will be violated......I hope they're gentle. I figger this is a shooting related post since I've been shooting toilet targets since 15:00 yesterday.

Nuff said, Bolt out!

Bolt
NC, - Friday, August 8, 2008, at 11:06:59 (ZULU)

Guys...

I didn't mean $200 for the week (gag... Eek!!).

I meant the $200 a shot kind - over and over and over and over... (on someone else's charge card - the best kind).

Boltster... that's more than we needed to know at 6:20 AM :)

Good luck

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, August 8, 2008, at 11:24:47 (ZULU)

Bolt,

The prep is the only bad part. You won't remember any of the rest.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, August 8, 2008, at 12:11:08 (ZULU)

Good goin', 'lito. I wish you the best!

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Friday, August 8, 2008, at 13:42:38 (ZULU)

I had a dream that Russia and Georgia were at war. That's what I get for falling asleep with FNC on the TV. Ha! So, I wake up and Russia and georgia have decided to change the subject around here(colons and whores only go so far). The crux of the thing is Southern Ossetia, which has a large ethnic russian populace. But you can also add in US influence, democracy, and NATO leanings to the mix of hate. What is interesting is that the major players--namely Putin and his puppet the PM are out of town; not likely if this was a planned thing. What is likely is that the separtists launched a war to force the russian's hand--who have stated 'they would not stand by and allow any interference from Tbisli (sp)." So, after rockets all night long on the borders, reports now indicate that russian armor has crossed the frontier. Ya know--there are similarities to another little skirmish here, you might know it as WWI. The russian response seems to be pre-programmed, and not a political or strategic calculation. More like---"oh shit, now what?" as a local yokel commander took it on his own to kick it up a notch. Ahh, some of the best wars start this way: "Whooops. We done farked up."

Video now confirms some armor movement on the russian side. Georgia is now calling this a full-on invasion. I'll bet Putin is going bonkers while stuck in Beijing:)) And China's inherently paranoid outlook probably thinks this is done intentionally just to screw with their games.

Who knew how amusing stupid national policy could be? Maybe the Mayans' calendar had it right after all, though I do not see any other country in the EU as having the balls to stand up for themselves--let alone someone else. In fact, once the russians get to the other side of Georgia, they could just roll to the channel with less fight than they are having now:))

Joe M
Friday, August 8, 2008, at 15:41:17 (ZULU)

I gotta admit: The thought has crossed my mind some time back...click:))

Joe M
Friday, August 8, 2008, at 16:01:08 (ZULU)

Joe,

In context to the news this morning...

Take a look where Sochi, Russia is on a map.

The 2014 winter olympics are scheduled to take place there.

old news, but the map would make an interesting overlay while plotting each side's movements and tactical objectives

http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10566657

I wonder if those Russian's marching southward will have any issues with maintain routes of passage....

medicjim
Friday, August 8, 2008, at 16:24:14 (ZULU)

re: politics and Sochi 2014 Winter Games

Gee, didn't Sarajevo host a winter Olympics in 1984 "shortly" before the Balkans went down the tubes? Interesting coincidence...

The Siege of Sarajevo was the longest siege in the history of modern warfare, conducted by the Serb forces of self-proclaimed Republika Srpska and Yugoslav People's Army (later transformed to the Army of Serbia and Montenegro), lasting from April 5, 1992 to February 29, 1996.

Sarajevo was one of the bidders for the 2010 Winter Olympics, which was eventually awarded to Vancouver. I would be very afraid if I resided in Vancouver given recent history for Winter Olympic host cities :-)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, August 8, 2008, at 16:47:41 (ZULU)

Ya know--this whole invasion could be instructive. It would be good to analyze from an intel perspective on the performance of the russian military. Georgia is calling up its reserves right now (which may sound like a mismatch at a glance against a standing army). But my current theory is that Russia's army is still screwed up from the years of neglect--and is nothing more than a large pile of welfare recipients drafted into servitude. The training needed is happening now--and the years that passed with no real training will show soon enough. On both sides, actually. Experience is low in both camps, and training dollars went to corrupt commanders.

FWIW, Saakashvili (PM, georgia) is appealing to NATO and specifically, the US, for immediate military help. I doubt, even if we already consumated the NATO treaty--that we would help. IMHO, NATO is an empty promise; not worth the paper that charters it. A toothless, feel-good gathering of wimps, if you will. Too bad this crisis erupted this soon--for if nothing else, it could have shown the uselessness of the alliance to all the world. It may yet do that, though the wimps can try to hedge with "but they weren't really member states yet." In short--Georgia is on its own.

The piepline that suppies the EU with Russian oil moves thru this hot region---but it was interdicted already (and is shut down) by the PKK in Turkey several days ago. That kinda alters things somewhat, but not enough, I think, to change the do-nothing attitude of the EU.

We will just stand aside and whisper, "pleeeeze stop this madness perty-pleeeeeeeze..."

Joe M
Friday, August 8, 2008, at 17:07:43 (ZULU)

Wierd how Google maps shows no roads in the entire country of Georgia

http://www.answers.com/topic/southossetia-region-detailed-map-jpg-1

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=russia&safe=on&ie=UTF8&ll=42.61577,43.876648&spn=0.449722,0.837708&t=p&z=10

Those high mountains sure look like the sort of place that a small force could hold up an armored column

medicjim
Friday, August 8, 2008, at 17:29:15 (ZULU)

MedicJim: I saw that, and wondered if Google chose a side here:)) Hey; delete map data and maybe those pesky ruskies will get lost and go home:)))

The link (click) has a "related news" batch of facts for those wanting to spin up on the current situation's long history. It is a good start for this if youz got interest in it.

Joe M
Friday, August 8, 2008, at 17:36:08 (ZULU)

Great article (report) on how your constitutional rights go to the highest bidder. JP, the scourge of SCOTUS, cited many of the discussed precendents (all unconstitutional, but who cares?) in his opinion for Kelo...my pet peeve. But, as goes the fifth, so goes all the rest. Sit back and watch...

Joe M
Friday, August 8, 2008, at 18:43:32 (ZULU)

Whewwwwwwwww........glad that's over. 2 polyps targeted and destroyed. I had heard horror stories about the prep and the gut juice that folks had to drink. My butt doc instructs the use of 238g of MiraLax in 64 oz. of Gatoraide, drink 8 oz. every 15-30 minutes. Hell, that stuff made the Gatorade taste even better, no foul taste at all.

Bolt out!

Bolt
NC, - Saturday, August 9, 2008, at 01:10:50 (ZULU)

Bolt, sympathies. I recommend heavy drinking. It won't do a thing for your colon, but well, I recommend it ;-)

Joe, there you go pushin my buttons again. Had a PLT LDR in the guard years ago, lawyer. He & I argued about the asburd abuse of the Interstate Commerce Clause. He thought it was just obvious that justified telling me how much water my toilet could use per flush. I'm confident he's in JAG somewhere making sure the Europeans know none of our guys get away with anything... you know, so they'll like us.

The Fifth Amendment yes, they're expanding what "everyone knows" is just quaint hold-over language from all those Dead White Males. The Tenth has been a dead letter for decades, as has the Ninth, and the first phrase of the Sixth. Groundwork has been laid to nulify the effect of several others.

(but I'm not bitter :))

On the bright side, I got paid two days this week to shoot guns I couldn't afford to feed much less buy: .338LM 20" box-fed bolt gun, 5-25x56 S&B glass. Champagne taste on a beer budget... did I say "bright side"?!? Well, someone else bought the ammo, so... yeah!

SSG Mac
Saturday, August 9, 2008, at 15:10:33 (ZULU)

I am reading "the dollar has rebounded..." or "Oil has burst..." or, "the market is bullish." I kinda like to look at the other stuff, too, before I get giddy: EU raised rates, is faltering in productivity, and has (counter-intuitively) lost value in currency; property is still seeking a bottom, the deficit is expanding, credit is still unravelling losses that are now expected to be 1 trillion, and jobless claims are on the ride, as is inflationary pressure. Wow...oil is at 115 per, and thatmakes wallstreet happy? No; this is just one of those bumps along the way. I mentioend these already--before this small rise happened. The fundementals are still whacked, and our monetary policy is still making too many dollars. In fact, i am starting to think this fall...as the heat goes on, things will suck pretty bad.

Bill: Statists are a bunch of narrow-thinkers, really. It all reveloves around a single "effect" that they really like--without regard on how that one little side-step of rights can be used by another for something quite outside his particular use. Take RICO or hate crimes: Grand and lofty narrow usage made these laws seem innocent enough...but, the temptation to use them to ease "other" crimes to conviction proves just too tempting for the many lesser men we have in positions of petty tyranny (DAs, for example). It is the camel's nose aspect that no one ever wants to hear about when we go after a "special case" and pass a broad, intellectually lazy law to appease emotions of the moment. It is this mob mentality that our founders tried so very hard to water down. Athens was their cause-celebre' for this; the people will vote suicidally on their own. And, we have states led by liberals trying to destroy these checks and balances even now (Colorado will commit electors to the national majority vote once 270 votes worth do the same)---this is in effect a "popular vote" gimmick to rid us of the electoral college. In other words, Colorado is willing to disenfranchise itself to NYC and LA voters' whims:)) |The scary part is that nobody seems to give shit, nor understand why this can be a hugely bad idea. The greatness of this country is purely a result of the ten ammendments and the responsible citizens who understood the great burden that is freedom. Oddly, no freedom is seductive, as it relieves you of the burdens of thought and personal responsibility. Too many would gladly exchange their healthcare burden for any conditions imposed by their new masters...WTF did we expect by turning over our children to the guvmint to be indoctrinated? Kickball? Too confrontational; Tag? Too flagrantly win-or-lose! Spelling? We'll accept close enough in a subjective attempt to be inclusive. Equal outcomes at all costs! No one should ever taste defeat or lose at a game. A bland existance for all! yeah!

Shit...how depressing. I cannot undertsand why the thought of such a life makes me want to puke while my in-laws clamour for more of this bitter shit to dine on! Are they un-American? You bet yer ass they are! |And, i will often say so to their face. The only good thing is that I am making headway. But as I look around---there are too few of me and too many of them.

Joe M
Saturday, August 9, 2008, at 16:44:21 (ZULU)

Some time ago a link was posted on this site to a video of Marcus Luttrell giving a short speech at an NRA convention. I got a copy of his book "Lone Survivor" and finished it this morning.

It's an amazing story and you need to read it if you haven't already.

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Saturday, August 9, 2008, at 21:04:23 (ZULU)

Hey Ya'll,

What do ya'll think of this... I know folks make mistakes but this is criminal to me...

http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon247.htm

I know news with views seems to have an ax to grind most of the time but believe it or not even the washington compost has an even more damning article...

Stay alert, stay alive !

Calvin

Calvin B Haxton
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Saturday, August 9, 2008, at 21:28:33 (ZULU)

"there are too few of me and too many of them."

Indeed there are, and always have been. Circumstances made our original republic possible: a small population, living close enough to disaster to be religeous and self-reliant, and composed largely of the self-selected action-takers from across Europe. Today all those demographics have been muted by a huge population living in government guarranteed safety.

The frontier is closed: the self-selection goes on, but within society; hardly showing itself even to those involved. Sheep & Sheepdogs live together, the Sheepdogs will try to keep things from going really ugly. But the sheep don't like to see "ugliness" so the sheepdogs can only do so much, and they've come to view their priveleges as rights. There's a certain tragic inevitability to reality making corrections.

Athens. Yeah, at a certain level most people are not really capable of self-government. The best of all possible governments is probably a Benign Dictatorship. Problem is, none has ever stayed benign. Human nature doesn't allow it. The next best would be a representative republic IMHO, but that will only last if the franchise is limited to those willing to put something else above their own welfare, and they exercise severe vigilance against vote-buying. We did this for a while, but slowly the privalege/responsibility of the franchise was chipped away & made a "right". "democracy" replaced "republic", and feasting at the public trough began creating slaves & buying votes.

There is good news: people change. They grow up. Not always, but it does happen: my own Sister once announced at my Parents dinner table that if there was ever a draft she would take her Son to Canada. My deployment changed her outlook radically (sic). She's now a strong conservative & sees the responsibilities of citizenship in a new light. She got faced with the reality of a man's responsibility to society in a way she couldn't deny, had to admit the justice of it all, and began to think other things through. Of course Dad probably led her through some of that (that's his job).

SSG Mac
Saturday, August 9, 2008, at 22:01:11 (ZULU)

On our Grand Teton trip my nephew and I did not summit. We scheduled a Saturday push. The weather did not cooperate.

CDC'
Sunday, August 10, 2008, at 00:23:52 (ZULU)

Calvin:

More victims of the war on (illegal) drugs.

I'm not sure which is a bigger threat to liberties, the war on drugs or the war on terror.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, August 10, 2008, at 00:49:06 (ZULU)

Not shooting related, just Right!

Or wrong, depending on your opinion and view. I was at the funeral today, of the bus victim here in Manitoba. We were part of the 'wall', to prevent any issues with the WBC 'people' whom were allegedly going to attend and demonstrate.

It all went off without a hitch, in our sector. Whether they showed anywhere else, we don't know.

The Patriot Guard Riders were represented. And I'm proud of that.

Sean T.
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada - Sunday, August 10, 2008, at 02:03:37 (ZULU)

I can pretty much guarantee I'll die if a no knock warrant is ever served on my home while I'm there. I'll take at least one of the sons of bitches with me, and I know my dog will have a snout full of nuts when they shoot him. If someone comes through my door without my letting them in, they have no business being there.

Who knows how many people are currently in prison because of planted evidence when one of these searches comes up dry? Of course, this kinda thing is viewed witha blind eye by so many in law enforcement, like our SC friend to the south, who can't fathom that anyone with a badge is capable of any wrongdoing. That's a big part of why this shit continues.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, August 10, 2008, at 02:48:40 (ZULU)

Hey YA'll,

I certainly did not post that link as some sort of blanket statement against all law enforcement officers but as an example of what happens when a police department becomes a rouge entity that is more of a tool of the current political establishment than a law enforcement agency. I am truly embarrassed to live in a state where this kind of incident will probably elect a collective yawn from the populace.. It's crap like this that led to the colonies revolting against the mother country... I am truly sorry that so many good men who wear a uniform and do their jobs with true dedication and professionalism will somehow be associated with these thugs... Personally I think their fellow brothers in blue should take them out back and give them a wood shampoo... But then I'm kinda old school about such things..

Stay safe

Calvin

PS the washington compost reported that the police chief is pissed because the justice department is looking into civil rights violations..

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Sunday, August 10, 2008, at 03:43:09 (ZULU)

"wood shampoo"......... LOL! That's a good one!

As for cop bashing, that's not what I meant to do. I'm simply pissed about all the idiot cops that defend this kinda horseshit, time after time, no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary. They jerk each other off jabbering some horseshit about "honor", but refuse to stand up and put their foot down. If they refuse to clean their own damn house, then they shouldn't bitch when the justice department does it for them.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, August 10, 2008, at 08:22:06 (ZULU)

Ken, I wish I had seen that post sooner. My band played down there Fri and Sat. Could have hooked you up with the best kind of beer....FREE! :-) No gang bangers either...until we saddled up and got out on 84th st outside the park.......

Joe, I'll be calling you in the next day or so.

'Lito - More good news. What a helluva thing. Most people really get railed by the courts....you sure did things right. Kudos!

Boltster - Hope your recovery goes well.

All - just a driveby, hope everyone else is doing well too!

Geoff M
WI, USA - Sunday, August 10, 2008, at 10:06:58 (ZULU)

About the up coming presidential election go here

http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/guntalk/config.pl?read=89077

Gary Kaney
NW, ILL, - Sunday, August 10, 2008, at 13:45:17 (ZULU)

SSG MAc,

Our forefathers probably were just as moral as we are today.. But there was an institutionalized system in place for 'self help'. It was called the 'militia'. It was kind of a fire department/fema/local police force combination.. It's really what I think we need today.. Ever wonder where "well regulated militia" came from and why it's where it is ? Hint.. it's not because 'firearms ownership is an individual right'.

If your really interested in the matter peruse this as it is a good starting place...

http://www.constitution.org/jw/jbwhisker.htm

I'm getting rather sick of posting this political crap... Any body have any luck with 155 sencars in the .308 ? I hear tell they get wiggy after you shoot them for a bit..

Stay safe

Calvin

PS Ken H we need to shoot some wmdfg's. The fields are cut and they are getting to be rather fat bullet receptacles....

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Sunday, August 10, 2008, at 15:41:22 (ZULU)

Anyone given a Leupold Mark 2 a workout yet? How about those turrets? Are they reliable and do they return to zero?

I feel confident that the optics are good (Multicoat) but are they a good value? Will they take abuse well?

Les
CT, USA - Sunday, August 10, 2008, at 16:21:37 (ZULU)

Calvin:

What do you want to know about 155g Scenars in .308 Win? I shoot them in F-class, and I believe several of the regulars on SC are using them in .308 Win too. I'm running them with a case-full of Varget.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, August 10, 2008, at 17:00:56 (ZULU)

Les,

Had a Mk2 and a Mk4 side by side on a counter 2 weeks ago at Cabelas.Dont remember the mag power of the Mk2 but think it was in the same power range as the Mk4.Even tho,the Mk2 was about $300 cheaper.I put a Mk4(4.5-14x50) on layaway.3 features I liked on the Mk4 had over the Mk2. 1)30mm tube vs 1in. 2)50mm objective vs 40mm. 3)Didnt care for the turret covers,feel its 2 more things to try and keep track of and too easy to lose. If I ever needed to sell it I can get better money for a complete package then to try and sell something with pieces missing,even tho replacements may just be a phone call away. Just my .02

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Sunday, August 10, 2008, at 17:34:56 (ZULU)

Les: From what i have seen, the MK2 line is a re-run of the old Vari-X II 3-9x tactical (MILDot, target turret), which I own. The dots give me a degree of sameness with my Mk4s, but at a cheaper price. Also, the "new" designation of Mk2 seems to only have changed the price and the turret configuration. What i was looking for was a scope that I could break without crying over finacially--and it has surpased my expectations in that regard. I have used it with a set of burris signature zee's to scope new additions to my collection over the years until i decide what scope will be permanent. It has survived more abuse than any other glass I own, and currently resides on that surprising little M1500 Howa lite tactical hunter I have. Yeah, itlacks a side focus and the brightness (if you have really sensitive eyes for such things) of a 30mm tube--but then, it is on a farm rifle---not a match gun. It ranges deer at a glance, and holds a zero as good as any scope I spent 5 times more money on. But then, i use hold overs off the dots rather than dialing.

Would i buy another? No, I already have one. And that is what I wanted...one that is easy to move from stick to stick, and is reliable and similar to the rest--without dumping a ton of cash into it. Perfect for the intended purpose. The money I saved here got spent on nightforce...so, your mileage too will vary. In the meantime, a Burris will replace it on the howa (mostly for color match--and maybe a bit of testing), and the pre-Mk2 variX will await the next new thing to come my way:)) Or, if the more pricey burris goes bust on me--it will jump back on for deer season.

Joe M
Monday, August 11, 2008, at 20:31:38 (ZULU)

Thanks for the info!

Do you guys know if the Mark II uses VXII lenses and coatings? Or could it be possible they have the VXIII lenses and coatings?

Les
CT, USA - Monday, August 11, 2008, at 23:16:30 (ZULU)

Les, you're going to have to hit the Leupold website for that kinda info. I believe the Mk 2 does have the Mk4 lens coatings. You also might want to check the adjustment range....my older scope has more travel than a comparable VariX III. Not much more, but also more actual travel than the book claims.

I bought one of the predecessors in about 2000 or 2001. I've used it for matches and vermin extermination. One feature I like is the ability to take the cheap KillFlash attachment on the objective. Besides hiding any reflections, it makes you get your head lined up on center of the scope.

My barrel action took a 1 1/2 gainer off the workbench one night and landed in a bucket of brass-on the scope. POI never budged.

WR Moore
Tuesday, August 12, 2008, at 02:17:01 (ZULU)

Mark 2 with the T2 dials is the way to go. It gives you 1/2min. elevation and windage dials. Its just a VariX ll with different dials, but I do like the idea of a shorter 1/2 min dial on the scope.

Soninlaw bought one for his tactical rilfe and really likes it. I have not seen it yet or shot it so can't say for sure.

Pat
Tuesday, August 12, 2008, at 17:34:57 (ZULU)

IIRC the price difference between my old scope and the latest & greatest if $150. Think I'll stick with what I got.

Would kinda like to get something I can go to 1K with without using the mil-dots.

WR Moore
Wednesday, August 13, 2008, at 00:12:24 (ZULU)

T1 turrets are 1/4" MOA adjustments. 56 MOA total W/E adj.

T2 turrets are 1/2" MOA adjustments. 55 MOA total W/E adj.

Looks like they use VXII optics with Multicoat 4. They are not index matched like VXIII lenses.

Les
CT, USA - Wednesday, August 13, 2008, at 16:04:41 (ZULU)

A 117 lb woman cleans and presses 277.2 pounds. Click my name.

Has anybody heard from Rick lately?

CDC'
Thursday, August 14, 2008, at 05:14:44 (ZULU)

Well, a few years ago now, I posted that I didn't trust that bastard Putin any further than I could throw him.

W committed the US to Georgia and her interests solidly on the world stage. Now the russians are entrenched on Georgian territory and it would appear that they are not leaving until they both get their republic back, and well and truly screw us over and make us look like weak, untrustworthy shitheads on the world stage in the process....or until we land and kick their asses out with no shit real military action. We cannot leave this action to stand....nobody in the world would ever take the US at it's word again.

I would estimate that this is the boldest and most dangerous international confrontation we have faced since the Cuban Missile Crisis. Vietnam was war by proxy, but through China. Same thing with N. Korea. Never in my lifetime have Russian troops shelled, bombed, and occupied a close US ally, that we have been so public about standing behind, and with a native US Military presence. I don't even think the world has really figured out what this means yet.

What are the possibilities that the timing of this is planned to tie up our capabilities during the final preperations for Iran to finish it's nuclear program?

Geoff M
WI, USA - Thursday, August 14, 2008, at 13:27:14 (ZULU)

Good news. Apparently, Daley realises he's whipped.

Well, the wife's in Orlando for a few days. When she gets back, I think I'll take her for a romantic interlude down by the stock yards, so I can "kiss her where it smells".

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, August 14, 2008, at 15:02:44 (ZULU)

Geoff: I wished I could disagree. Even though the realpolitik of this is "not our problem"---it is, in a deeper psychological sense, and on too many fronts to count. First is the message to the Ukraine and other former "states" from the now defunct (and, it appears, soon to be re-opened) Soviet Union. |Then, there is the "empire itself---Romania, Bulgaria, The baltics---they are secondary recipients of Putins message---and waitied to see how much help we would bring. The big, fat zero help accompanied by plaintive whines while GWB played grab-ass with a chippy volleyball team made its own impression too. Tertiary fallout will be found in places like Taiwan; if the US is your friend...why??? |Will they really help if the chips are down? I say this is all psychological--but that is today's impact. Given time for the abadonment (real or imagined--it truly matters not) to sink in--these thoughts turn to new strategies based on assumptions. OBL used his impression of our resolve that he gained in Somalia in his calculations for further attacks....well, we all know where that led. Now, bad actors world-wide are watching and taking notes. To our guvmint--this is a family spat with one glaring "oh shit" in the middle of it all: The pipeline! |Really, we have no good options right now. EU is strangled by Russian oil shipments, so they can't whine like we can--they can only wimper. Our forces could easily gain Air Parity (but not superiority or dominance)--buying time alone. CAS would be spotty due to the terrain, so ground forces would still move forward (with great losses but hardly enough to impede). Georgia, for its part, can never match the Ruskies on land or air alone---and forget about the Black sea! A seventh fleet foray into this AO is ONLY a politcal statement--at which point we would absolutely want to avoid a shooting war of any kind at all---or risk the total loss of said fleet. What is left? Patriotism inherent to Georgians, hatred of Putin and of Russian overlording in their domestic affairs for...well, ever really:)) And given all that---a nacsent guerilla campaign ready to unleash.

That is acutally the only card we have now that we can play. The rest is all bluff---and Russia has called us on it with a bunch of MRRs.

While I immediately see all of this as the hand we are dealt---it is also true that the limits of our options in this region largely do not get entered into the equation; that other nations who "think we are their friends" can only assume the worst now....and this can (and likely will) alter the course of events for the next few years.

It is imperative at this point to maintain the current government, and the independance of georgia---oddly, a position that McSame advocates right off the bat (is there more to this guy than I think?). But, that said, the real question is: How??? The only options would require a bit of unity with the EU...and that pretty much sucks for us.

Joe M
Thursday, August 14, 2008, at 16:28:47 (ZULU)

We have options. How about we move some heavily armored peacekeepers into Ukraine and sell Poland some cut rate AAA, manpads and a few Abrahms...and triple the size of the anti-ballistic missle installation in Cz? Maybe wargame something akin to mining the black sea ports.

Any ally worth having will realize that Georgia screwed up and there was nothing we could do about it.

We need to pull the same crap Russia pulled with Iraq and start busting on them to repair war damage and make the nation whole. Everything that goes wrong in Georgia is Russia's fault....to include the rape and murder that will likely come out in the next week or so at the hands of the Chechen fighters. No need to be rational or reasonable...the more obnoxious the spin, the better.

The other consideration is that every time we stick our nose in Asia, we run the risk of preventing a pissing match between Russia and China....and we most certainly don't want to do that.

medicjim
Thursday, August 14, 2008, at 18:59:25 (ZULU)

MedicJim: Spin, obnoxious or not, is unlikely to bother Putin. FWIW, I posted that opinion based on where we are today (the US) politically. What I would do, or what we really should do---these options are not "on the table."

In a perfect world, NATO would convene an emergency session and announce Georgia's membership--Turkey would stage a few armored divisions of various nearby nations, and Russia would negotiate a split-decision post tic...and the Ukraine (primarily) and the former satellite states would have a de facto reprive for several years from Putin's power plays without further action.

fat chance...

As for "securing" the Ukraine---politically, the US is in no position to try for a million stupid reasons. Putin is actually counting on it--which is why a little cold-war style brinksmanship is just what we needed to do! Think Cuban missile crisis. They think, "let's give her a go." |If the US rolls over, we'll just scarf up the old union...if they challeneg--we'll just go back to the status quo with a larger presense in the breakaways. It is a win-win for them---but a lose-or-seriously lose proposition for us.

Russia is on the move once again deeper into georgia....hey; I love their take on cease fires: You stop shooting so we can kill you more easily:))

But, what did we expect? This cease fire was a French idea...and we all know how well those go when the shooting starts:))

I agree with both you and geoff that action is required. Firm, resolute action now! But...I do not see the current crop of hamstrung idiots in Washington as having the spine to try. Not even a reinforcement of the Ukraine...

Joe M
Thursday, August 14, 2008, at 20:40:55 (ZULU)

OK, gotcha on the political reality...damn I hate that stuff

Based on what's been seen in the press about Georgia, Russia may not do so well in Ukraine...even without the US

medicjim
Thursday, August 14, 2008, at 21:32:41 (ZULU)

Georgia...

It might be the one thing that brings out fragile country to our knees. And you know what Martha Stewart would say about that.

We are in a real bad position, and have been for many years. We have allowed ourselves to become totally dependent on a people that hate the ground we walk on - Hello, is there any intelligent life in Washington D.C.???.

Back in the 70's, our power infrastructure was aging and nuclear was on everyone's shit list (remember 3 mile Island??)

At $10 a barrel, it was cheaper to import oil than to rebuild our crumbling refineries and power infrastructure.

So America got on the middle east's tittie. It is the classical dynamic of the drug pusher - "Hey kid, it's only 10 bucks a barrel and it'll make you feel good".

But when the kid can't live without it and can't make it himself, it's "Hey USA, it's $150 a barrel, and fuck you while you are at it".

The Democrats, the Greenies and Eco-Nazis, and yes Martha, even the friggin Republicans, all sucked us into this mess. They were so busy pushing their PC agendas that the energy foundation of the country slipped down the toilet while everyone was screaming at each other, and pushing their own petty agendas - and they are still sucking (or should I say "flushing") us, with no turn about in sight - with $150 a barrel oil, we STILL HAVE NO ENERGY POLICY!!!

Our enemies are getting stronger with our money, cuz we became addicted to cheap energy (and cheap sneakers), and now the worldwide demand for energy is driving us into a corner.

The Iraq war WAS about oil, and don't ever forget it - but it wasn't about GWB and his friends making money on oil, it was because if Saddam Husein had continued on his path, America would have been brought to her knees 10 years ago.

When you are talking about using the nations military fuel reserve to run cars on an everyday basis, you are lost, because what are you going to replace it with - $200 a barrel oil?? You cannot replace it, and when you need it (like in a national emergency, Duh), it is gone.

We cannot fight in Georgia, and we have one of two assholes coming into office in five months - neither of which is capable of handling the current mess, much less a new problem in the Balkans.

So if Russia pushes, Georgia will fall, as will the surrounding countries, and there's nothing we can do to stop it - we are 250% over extended, and you can only do that for a short while, before it breaks you.

Our military is over extended. The situation in Iraq is not real good, and not getting better in the foreseeable future. Their government is paper mache'.

Iran is on the verge of being a real problem, and if it does, the middle east will go up in flames.

We import 70% of our oil from the very same people that would wholly LOVE to see this country on our knees.

If the middle east turns into a bruhaha, America's economy collapses - you can't get to work, because you can't get gas for any price - 90% of the airlines shut down - the food chain breaks, and it makes the 1930's look like a birthday party.

We are on such thin ice, that is should scare the living shit out of you.

That said... I'm gonna go back to bed !

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, August 15, 2008, at 12:01:12 (ZULU)

Click. This reporter is one tough chick! Gets grazed by a round, and keeps right on reporting! For once, a reporter I can respect. You'd think, though, that her crew would drop their shit, hop in the van, and get the fuck outta there!

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/08/14/vo.gerogia.journalist.shot.gerogiastatetv

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, August 15, 2008, at 14:19:07 (ZULU)

Lito: I don't need to say why--I have already ad nauseum--so we all know how much I agree with your post. One thing we hear is "wealth transfer" of our hard earned dollars going overseas in exchange for oil. BFD (as in big f'ing deal). Ya see, that is a portion of actual earned income chosen by us to go there. In other words, we go out and do productive things for renumeration, then use a fraction (increasing, yes, but still not every damned penny) of that to fill our tanks. That is commerce, and that is the greas that makes the world go round. Yeah, bad actors get a lion's share of our dollar--but that is political rather than economic. And yes, the two intersect...but the BIGGER issue by far is congress sending IOUs overseas---deficit spending, financed by our very same dollars we spent on oil turning around and coming back as a debt to you and me--as T-bills or shares of freddie (as it turns out). The government deficit is not hard earned dollars that circulated thru our effort, wants and needs---it is instead a mortgage (levied against our will--or actually--beyond our understanding). Those dollars are the ones that kill us through inflation--and, ultimately when the balance is due--through forced labor (and you will work harder when the tax man starts to take larger chunks of your livelihood). And, when you combine the two (consumer debt and/ or discretionary spending on foriegn goods and government deficit spending)--it outpaces our net worth. In other words, too many dollars makes dollars easy to get--and therefore, not as much demand for them.

One of the things I am looking for is an unnatural rise in dollar value--like now. Our FED interest rates are about nil right now, while the ECB cranked their up to ~4%...but the Euro fell despite being propped better. Why? That is NOT the "norm." Instead, what is at work is the larg dollar holders (bad actors) were watching their deposits erode thru inflation. The Fed's ability to control our currency is undermined by the sheer volume of currency held in foriegn capitols. I mentioned the danger here before. Now, once the dollar stabilizes--who will be the first to try to get out?

Man, if that stuff ever starts--we will be fucked before we wake up in the morning.

Joe M
Friday, August 15, 2008, at 15:43:15 (ZULU)

Joe M...

To bring that stuff down to "Plain Folks" level, the concept of trade (fair or otherwise), is that two people, towns, states, or countries, have stuff the other needs.

Two Indian tribes that live on the Maryland coast won't "trade" fish for fish, but a tribe on the coast will trade fish for grain or red meat from an inland tribe - each one needs (or wants) the other tribes stuff.

Sometimes, the fishing tribe wants grain, but the grain tribe doesn't want fish - they want red meat - so the tribes work out a system of pretty colored beads, so the fishing tribe can get grain for beads, and the grain tribe uses the beads to get read meat, and the read meat tribe can trade the pretty colored beads for fish... Voila - a common currency. That's how three (or more) party trading works.

In modern societies, we do the same. First we did it with gold (that was very pretty and shiny too), but that got heavy, so we printed our beads and we call it "money" (definitely not worth as much as gold, and probably not worth as much as real colored beads).

Our problem is that we give China and the middle east over a trillion dollars a year, and we don't have much stuff they want to buy with our "beads".

We don't make anything any more, so we can't trade oil for our tools and machines - hell we buy their machines too.

Id est, they can't use the colored beads we gave them to get something we made - and they can't use out colored beads to get anything from anyone else either...

... so they use the colored beads to buy our land, our businesses, our forests, and our resources.

So while you say we are buying gas with our "discretionary" money - I say we are using our money for what we must have (or we die), and our government didn't make sure we would have it - the main function of government is the security of the nation (not handing out pork projects for votes), so the government has failed (totally) in it's prime directive.

Arguably, it should be replaced, and if the truth were known by the public, this November, they would throw out EVERY friggin incumbent, and they'd do it again in two years, and two years after - but the public has no idea of what is going on because the other "Pillar of freedom", the free press, is getting blow jobs from the government - so the plan folks have no idea of what's going on.

You can NEVER enter a one sided trade relationship, and expect to win, or break even... and now, we can't even quite the game, because our government has not given up the tools for independence.

Unfortunately, the Libertarian Party is so hung up in the "No income tax" platform, that they miss the real problems that the Libertarians philosophy would deal with... and the public has no other party of choice.

I've already said twice as much as I should have - back to legal shit.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, August 15, 2008, at 18:12:02 (ZULU)

"Lito,

"You can NEVER enter a one sided trade relationship, and expect to win, or break even..." MAybe you could call this the "pawn shop" theory. You know what it's worth, they know what it's worth, but you're not in a power position at all.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, August 15, 2008, at 18:42:33 (ZULU)

Lito: We actually do make stuff they need; all their factory tooling was sold out from under our operators:))

And, a better way to look at it is this: We send them little green pieces of scrap with dead presidents' pictures on them, and they send us their efforts and resources.

I just hope they don't catch on, since we use those scraps for other things too. But, in a nutshell--there lies our problem: Sooner or later, the whole world will look at the "wealth" they accumulated for what it really is...and, well, ya better have some commodities to barter with when that realization sets in...

back to turbo chargers and other "in over my head" mechanical shit.

Joe M
Friday, August 15, 2008, at 18:52:14 (ZULU)

Joe M...

Those "... little green pieces of scrap with dead presidents' pictures on them," are I.O.U.s against the future of this country - and if those rage heads have a hissy fit and call in those notes by dumping them on the market - watch oil go to $500 a barrel and computers, foreign cars, and TV sets go through the roof - we basically naked in the worlds economy, and there's no towel to reach for - we throw that away when were buying votes from the left.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, August 15, 2008, at 21:15:50 (ZULU)

The Russians are refusing to recognize Georgian borders, the newest iteration of cease fire removes the reference to their territorial integrity and allows them to occupy and patrol a buffer zone of 10km around South Ossetia.

While Condoleeza Rice was in Tbilisi, a Russian column of APCs, 200 troops, and 3 helos left Gori and advanced to within 55km of Tbilisi.

Source - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4543728.ece

Are the Russians nuts, bullies, or are they holding 4 aces and we don't know it yet?

Geoff M
WI, USA - Saturday, August 16, 2008, at 04:10:04 (ZULU)

A "Cease Fire" works to the advantage of the agressor. Russians are in Georgia and can't be fired on. That leaves them free to do whatever they want.

CDC'
Saturday, August 16, 2008, at 06:05:53 (ZULU)

What the hell are we gonna do about it...? All our troops are in the sandbox(es)!

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Saturday, August 16, 2008, at 14:06:00 (ZULU)

Hey Joisey...

I tried to give you some dope in the 6mmBR, and yourt e-mail service kicked it back to me :((

So a friend answered on 6mmBR forum :((

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, August 16, 2008, at 20:57:05 (ZULU)

Many thanks, 'Lito !

So many questions,so little time !

Regards,

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, Usa - Saturday, August 16, 2008, at 21:50:17 (ZULU)

Gents: I'm off to Ft Benning to watch my son jump from perfectly good airplanes. I'm taking the diesel with its new subsystems installed---I oughta get a good clue on fuel efficiency along the way:)) 2400 miles roundtrip; that oughta give some feedback...mainly in the wallet! But besides all that---this will be a cool trip. I sent a boy off in January...now a Man is returning for a few weeks:)

Just freakin' cool!

Being among troops again does make me twinge with slight regrets though. I still had a few miles left when I bailed out...

And, I misunderestimated the desire to "be there" when he arrives in Iraq or the 'stan. Intellectually, I know that would be an inherently bad idea...but the heart says otherwise. It it probably a good darn thing I did retire.

Joe M
Sunday, August 17, 2008, at 22:53:38 (ZULU)

Safe travelin Joe.Congrats to you and your son.As ya go thru the bigger cities...Keep an eye out for B.O. supporters,them f+ckers will try to take ya out no matter what your runnin.Had another one try it on a bridge on the way up to the range by my Sis,only this time I had the Explorer :)) Think I am gonna weld up a heavy duty booger bar with very pointy forward facing spikes for the Ford....and about 4 ft of duplex primary chain to carry while on the Shovel.The next one that pulls that shit on me is gettin some body work...or a windshield.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Monday, August 18, 2008, at 07:38:31 (ZULU)

World politics country:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/08/18/musharraf.address/index.html

Musharraf says he will resign Pakistan presidency

"...Musharraf has been a keen ally of the West in the fight on terror, receiving billions in military aid from the U.S. and launching attacks on militant groups near the country's border with Afghanistan."

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, August 18, 2008, at 11:05:13 (ZULU)

Yeah... and now he retiring with half of it!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, August 18, 2008, at 14:29:42 (ZULU)

re: Musharraf "retirement fund"

...cost of doing business in that part of the world :-(

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, August 18, 2008, at 16:45:04 (ZULU)

Pablito,

Is it at all possible USRAC/Winchester assembled any M70's outside of the New Haven, CT plant? A numbnutz on another site is claiming to have a .375H&H Safari Express that is roll-marked "Columbia, S.C." and was assembled in a super-secret squirrel plant on Hobart Road, Blythewood SC sometime pre-2006.

He even claims he bought it directly from the facility.

I know outside vendors produced some parts, but wasn't all final assy done in CT?

Les
CT, USA - Tuesday, August 19, 2008, at 14:05:51 (ZULU)

Les...

The new Winchester plant is in SC.

The FN plant has been there for a long time, and they made the FN police riffles

Since FN and Winchester wer(are) owned by the same folks, when the Winchester plant in CT closed, it was a natural to move "Souf".

It all has a lot to do with the union contracts.

Back in the 60s and 70s, when we were the production capital of the world, the unions got some sweetheart deals - the auto companies gave life time medical - who knew what a fuckin disaster that would turn out to be...:(

... well, Winchester signed a contracts that had a lot of bad stuff in them, which is why they stopped doing custom stocks out of the custom shop... AND - they could not open plants in any other state, or move to any other state.

When the economy went east to the Asian rim... Winchester was stuck between a rock and a badd place. And the state was hitting them with a tax load that would pay off the national debt.

They couldn't win, they couldn't break even, and they couldn't leave the game and go to another state... so there was only one thing to do, and that was to fold their hand.

Your friends riffle was made in SC. I would be interested in when he got it. Is it marked Winchester or FN.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, August 19, 2008, at 15:20:04 (ZULU)

UnPat: I'm in the superduty--not on the hawg. Nobody below a loaded 18 wheeler is running me off anything:))

My first stop for fuel was Indianapolis:)) The numbers seem to vary alot between throttle settings (26mpg@65mph, 22@70mph, and 18@80mph)---the overall average within the first 680 miles was 21mpg. I find that driving the speed limit, at night, is hard to do. Oh, this is with "stock tuning" as my computer was NOT in the boxes I got in, neither were the turbo fan, a series of 4" bolts, or some wiring.

I will not talk bad about either my vendor (usually does not use this company) or my manufacturer (direct shipped) for this screw-up now that it is all fixed. In their favor---the manufacturer uses a set of vendors who are all "trained" in the kits' requirements...in this case, my model year could have had one of three "tunes" and the turbo may be one of two models---they needed to have that up front to ship. They had "due out" for me...once my vendor called (they would not talk to me due to the outsider nature of my order). As for my vendor---he is working thru AAFES---so my "profit margin" in part will go to our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines as MWR funding.

Whatever PITA this is...it is worth it to me...and that is all that counts.

Banks trans-command module is a must-have if you use an auto tranny in a towing situation. Its da bomb!

I'm heading out from KY today--along with a old family friend and paratroop...

Joe M
Tuesday, August 19, 2008, at 15:32:17 (ZULU)

JoeM-on mileage, ifn ya wants to turn the crank faster, ya gots to dump in more fuel to do so. That's one of the good things about boost gauges. You set your throttle opening* to produce a specific boost rating at a given speed on a level road and kick back. Just slightly above max torque should give you the best fuel mileage.

*Dunno if you can do this with cruise control. Have a throttle lock on the big truck. Poor mans cruise control.

WR Moore
Tuesday, August 19, 2008, at 17:27:40 (ZULU)

Grand Kittywhacker!

Is it even possible a M70 was assembled and marked "Columbia, S.C." prior to the March 2006 closing of the New Haven production facility?

I thought all final assembly was done in CT per union contract/agreement, and marked as such.

I am definately not talking about the new/upcoming FN M70.

Les
CT, USA - Wednesday, August 20, 2008, at 00:41:00 (ZULU)

Greetings,

Joe: Congratulations to your son. The days of blood wings are long past. That said, when he is out of formation, pound the wings into his chest the first chance you get. It does not seem possible that jump school was 25 years ago.

Georgia: Russia is flexing it's muscle and it is a huge mistake to let it go unnoticed and unchecked. The US needs to seriously consider arming the former Soviet states to discourge further incursions. At some point, an intervention in Georgia is not out of the question.

Pat II
Wednesday, August 20, 2008, at 01:50:50 (ZULU)

Pat II: Me and the smadge are taking a rigged para kevlar that was worn into panama...it will plant the wings nicely. WTF are they gonna do? Arrest me? Bawhawhaw. On the russia thing, I wanna send you an analysis I have in digits (once i get back) Hit me offline with a good email addy and I will get it to you next week. You are spot on with your post--IMHO.

WR: Gotta wait til i get the new turbine blades into the garret (and the bigger intercooler) before I add the meter. But I will take notes on efficient gear/ RPM ranges. The install is a PITA to the max, so I skipped it for now (needed the truck for the trip:))

joe m
Wednesday, August 20, 2008, at 02:04:51 (ZULU)

"Banks trans-command module is a must-have if you use an auto tranny in a towing situation. Its da bomb! "

JoeM: I have the Banks OttoMind tuner for the Cummins. I have not installed it yet - however lots of reading and talking with others say the Banks system - even tho pricey - will keep you from ruining a 10+ thousand dollar engine (powerstroke, cummins, etc) - and a auto-trans as well. With a tuner - these modern day turbo diesels will twist the world in half.

You might find that your best mileage does not happen at the "mileage" or "economy" setting on your tuner. Each person, truck, etc is different.

From what I can tell by reading, talking with others - your powerstroke oughta have a bit broader range of rpm/speed that gets the sweet mileage. My Farrier has a 2002/03 (I think) F250 w/powerstroke and the Banks system. He says that's the best thing since sliced bread for his truck.

take care out there,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Wednesday, August 20, 2008, at 14:13:35 (ZULU)

How would you like to fire a shot with a wheelgun and have the barrel fly off????

http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Video/?action=view&current=taurus_boom_2.flv

Or click......

Geoff M
WI, USA - Wednesday, August 20, 2008, at 17:34:38 (ZULU)

JoeM-I hear you on time management (I think I finally fixed an itermittant electrical issue after a couple of years) and the space constraints of pickups. Looked under the hood of a 2008 F450 the other day. Can't figure out how anyone could do anything without pulling the cab off the thing.

I wish the stylists didn't get as much influence over (light) truck design as they do. The bigger stuff is made to be worked on-or at least it used to be. The smaller stuff seems to be engaged in a contest to see who can cram the biggest engine in the sleekest package.

WR Moore
Wednesday, August 20, 2008, at 21:07:14 (ZULU)

All diesels should have a boost gauge, an exhaust gas temp gauge and a fuel pressure gauge. With the EGT gauge being the most important, especially if you do any heavy pulling. It lets you know what actually going on inside the motor.

Now this pertains to more of the "real" truck stuff and is targeted at Cummins especially, but it's worth reading if you've got time on your hands. It shouldn't take long, I got through it in about 20 minutes and I keep going back to expand on certain aspects all the time.

http://www.dieselinjection.net/BRUCE/articles.html

BTW, automatic transmissions suck, except for the big Allisons and even those are for girls only ;)

BTW, Joe M, I'm looking at a schedule change in the near future that might free up an occasional weekend, if you want/need some wrench help, I'll be glad to come north and bring my tools.

S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Wednesday, August 20, 2008, at 22:00:53 (ZULU)

Ken, Diesel Injection of Pittsburgh has been reworking oil burners for decades. They also have stuff for Cat & Powerstrokes. They're real helpful on the phone too.

I found the boost gauge to be very educational. Real helpful on sucking the best fuel consumption on the big truck. Wish I had one on the pickup, but couldn't figure out how to install the thing.

IIRC, I got the pickup gauges from Campers World. Got the EGT for the big truck there too. The boost gauge was from Summit Racing.

WR Moore
Wednesday, August 20, 2008, at 23:07:01 (ZULU)

WR Moore, I know they have, but I've only been working on trucks(professionally) for 3 yrs now. Before I was stuck with what Uncle gave me, and that 6.5 GM diesel is really a POS. I'm on my 2nd BC Cummins and the one I have now is going to get some work at PP once I get some free time.

We just bought a 08 F450, got the V10 gasser. In contrast with the Ford V10 gas motor, which is great, the new diesels are for s**t. It's going to be nothing but glider kits from now on, for me anyways. The new 6.7 Cummins seems to be OK, but I can't help but imagine how much better it would be without that 07 emissions crap hanging on it. Everytime the one we have has been back to Pete, it's been for that emissions crap. As for the big trucks, the ones targeted at the O/O market seem to be OK, the fleet trucks (FL's except the Classic, Volvos, KW 2000's,etc) are all shiite. Yeah, most of the individual parts are OK, but in combination: junk. IE FL Columbia with Steertek front axle and Detroit series 60 motor = monumental POS. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
Thursday, August 21, 2008, at 00:16:30 (ZULU)

Interesting take from Strafor on Russia v. Georgia - and what's to come. Click on my name for the link.

Lindy
Creede, Colorado, U.S.A. - Thursday, August 21, 2008, at 00:22:35 (ZULU)

Specific truck performance numbers -

FWIW, I just moved to the Morongo Basin area of California about 400 miles from the East Bay. For those Rosterfarians unfamiliar with the area, it's really, really hot here. People go to the Mojave for cooler weather.

I have a 2001 F150 with a 4.5L V8 gasoline engine(approx 289 cid for some of us) with towing package, manual tranny, K&N filtercharger system, headers n catback, some suspension upgrades and a camper shell. I have a Hypertech engine performance program on the engine. On the move, I was towing a trailer with about 1 ton of stuff, including my motorcycle.

I set my rpm's at 2400 and cruised. Got about 15 mpg for the 400 mile trip. The engine was working, but not too hard. Speed would creep up into the high 70's if I wasn't careful. Unloaded, at 2400 rpm, speed is about 72mph for 17 mpg. On the steepest grade, 7% for about 6 miles, flat out in third gear, I was going 37 mph at about 3800 rpm. Not enough data for fuel consumption on that grade, but it was a concern for a few minutes.

Temperature ranged from 57*F when I left the East Bay to 107*F crossing the desert.

My wife followed me in her Camry and got 505 miles on one tank of gas, about 26 mpg. At 80, the Camry gets about 20 mpg.

I had maintenance on the truck just before I left. A coil had gone bad and had to be replaced. Has anyone tried the grease pencil trick to find a sick cylinder?

It was a cool 97*F when I left work today...107*F at the house.

Trajan Aurelius
SoCal, Left Coast, USA!! - Thursday, August 21, 2008, at 03:34:34 (ZULU)

Geoff M.

Whatta ya reckon the B.C. was on that barrel?

Lindy,

Pretty good article and a good "Reader's Digest" analysis. Thanks for the link.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Thursday, August 21, 2008, at 06:49:02 (ZULU)

If you guys think the emissions crap on diesels is bad news now...Wait another couple years.You 'll be happy to have todays stuff then.

They are talkin a whole new ballgame for 2010 on the big ones.

As far as workin on them...depends on what it is.Twin turbo Cat in a 387 is no fun.Mercedes in a Freightliner will have you inventing new swear words.And the only thing that didnt leave me feelin bloody,bruised and like I had my ass kicked in a bar fight,in a Volvo... was driving one.Even changin the oil in a Volvo draws blood.Rather do Mack 'camelback' springs then a clutch in a Volvo that has an ISX under the hood.Far as that goes...I' ll do camelbacks for life if it will keep me from openin the hood of a Volvo or a 13 letter Shitspreader(International) ever again.

Joe,Your fuel mileage sounds pretty decent,to me.Know some guys w/gas motors that would love to get what your gettin.But then again too all I see are the big ones where 7.5mpg is "Good".

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Thursday, August 21, 2008, at 09:21:00 (ZULU)

Well...

I finely have a state agency investigation those bastards.

It is now an official criminal investigation by the Attorney Generals Office.

They said the first stage will take 4 or so months.

ow I can do something else with my time - like sue my first lawyer.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, August 21, 2008, at 17:52:46 (ZULU)

That's great news!

Go git 'em Kittywacker!!

Doc Mac
The Cradle of Naval Aivation, FL, USA - Friday, August 22, 2008, at 02:07:00 (ZULU)

22Mag Country,

Just picked up a little CZ 452 ina 22 mag for $175. Anybody played with one? Any "improvements" one could do such as trigger?

Optics- something in a 2-7 flavor or would you pimp it with a red dot kinda thing. This critter is like new and shot very little, so if you have any suggestions (with this crowd ??)...

Okay, pour something flamable and ignite...

Scott F.
Hillbillyland, - Friday, August 22, 2008, at 04:05:44 (ZULU)

Scott: cz452.com discusses improvements in detail. A spring-kit is available for the trigger. Timney makes a replacement. Check out Nikon scopes. Geoff Corn does a nice job of bedding a 452 or anything else.

That is a very nice rifle.

CDC'
Friday, August 22, 2008, at 04:17:44 (ZULU)

Scott, to add to CDC's tips... the Burris rimfire rings mount up nice to the 11mm ridge on the back of the receiver. I bought the 'lows', then the 'mediums' and my 40mm objective scope is still a wee bit too low to make the bolt throw comfortable... just food for thought. There are a couple companies making a slide on conversion to a pic type rail....B-square and US Optics that I remember.

I think CZ makes one nice rifle for the money and it sounds like you stole the one you bought. Good for you. I also just picked up a Sako quad for my primary 22LR.... I like this rifle a whole lot.

medicjim
Friday, August 22, 2008, at 13:16:24 (ZULU)

re: rimfire rifles

I'm planning on purchasing a .22LR chambered bolt long gun. Had narrowed down my choices to the synthetic stock Savage with heavy barrel or the CZ452 Silhouette (also synthetic stocked).

Have decided on the CZ, starting to accumulate accessories as a lead-up to the purchase. Still up in the air on which of several possible approaches is the best for tuning/replacing the trigger. Would like to set up with around 1.5Kg trigger weight, which would be similar to what I'm running in my F-class stick.

Open to recommendations...

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, August 22, 2008, at 16:51:18 (ZULU)

Rod, take a look at the Sako quad, there is a lot to like about it.

-Available on gunbroker for $420

-synthetic stock, comes floated

-modular, replaceable barrels *

-short bolt throw *

-very good ergonomics right out of the box *

-great trigger, fully adjustable out of the box *

-good magazines, sit flush and feed clean (they are too expensive though)

-good barrel right outta the box, similar (same quality)as CZ

-very likely to have an aftermarket following, McM and Manners already support the inlet, drop in barrels already available from Lilja, Terry Cross (KMW) making a bolt knob for it.

The items with the "*" are where I give the quad the edge over the CZ and I have both.

medicjim
Friday, August 22, 2008, at 17:15:16 (ZULU)

Medicjim:

Alas, as a Canadian resident, Gunbroker pricing is as relevant to my situation as pricing in Peshwar, Pakistan :-(

(not whining, just observing).

Sako Quad in .22LR in Canada retails for $C864.94

http://www.lebaron.ca/pdf_files_fall08/hunting/sako_85_rifles.pdf

CZ 452 Silhouette in .22LR in Canada retails for $C490.

http://www.wholesalesports.com/onlinestore/control/category/~category_id=10414/~pcategory=10110018030482

A local dealer may be willing to simplify my purchase logistics on the CZ. He also is a fan of the CZ rifles, which helps.

I'm looking for a .22LR practice rifle that won't be a significant limiting factor in my accuracy.

Both are substantially more expensive than the Savage offering.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, August 22, 2008, at 23:52:13 (ZULU)

22 country; Yesterday I went to the CMP store at Camp Perry, Ohio, to purchase an M1 Carbine. Also bought a Mossberg 22 target rifle for $175, they have 50 or so on the floor. Going back next week for a Kimber 22 heavy barrel, walnut target stock with rail,sights, new in box, $600. These were for a sniper training program and never used. Some have beautifuly figured walnut.Check out their website.

Fred Hartman
toledo, ohio, usa - Saturday, August 23, 2008, at 02:26:57 (ZULU)

Guys,

As an aside, I've a friend who has another CZ 452 in 22LR (like new), with an expensive after market trigger, but I can't remember what make. Breakes very crisp and consistent. He's asking in the ballpark of $325. Anyone interested hit me off line.

Scott

Scott F.
Hillbillyland, - Saturday, August 23, 2008, at 04:53:21 (ZULU)

Well I guess the old curse "May you live in interesting times" is true!

As a lot of you know, or if your "Old Timers" is kicking in did know, I'm a RN by profession. One of the things I swore, guess this is what I get for swearing, was I'd never be a traveller. Again guess I should never say never! Anyway I've become a traveling Nurse and I leave for my first assignment on Thurday. Have to be in Weatherford, Texas on Friday morning to do the HR stuff and some orientation. Think I actually start working Tuesday night but not sure of that just yet. One nice thing is Weatherford is only 2 1/2 hours south of BadLands so should be able to get up there for some shooting without much difficulty!

For the amateurs, you know what I mean, I will have 2 different 2m/440 rigs as well as a HF rig with me so contact may be a possibility!

Well things are about to get a whole lot more interesting!

Sarge

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Saturday, August 23, 2008, at 15:06:09 (ZULU)

CDC, sir,

You have e-mail with contact info

Thanks mang,

Scott

Scott F.
Hillbillyland, - Saturday, August 23, 2008, at 16:23:57 (ZULU)

bad news for US reloaders who buy surplus components:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=386739

Slamfire1 writes:

"Jeff Bartlett told me that future demilling contracts forbid the sale of components. Everything will have to be burnt, or melted down for scrap.

This occurred when Congress was under the control of our "friends" the RINO Republicans.

Hope you stocked up."

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, August 24, 2008, at 03:07:11 (ZULU)

rod...

>""Jeff Bartlett told me that future demilling contracts forbid the sale of components. Everything will have to be burnt, or melted down for scrap.

This occurred when Congress was under the control of our "friends" the RINO Republicans."<

I might be wrong on this one, but as I recall, it was Clinton that sprung that one through in an "Executive order", buried under about 9,000 others.

I was pretty good in civics, but I never read the part that the president could make laws "aw by hisself", without going through congress.

I can understand the need for "some" decisions being made fast, like the "Bay of TOnkin" (hee hee hee...) but ALL "Executive orders" should be ratified by Congress at the very next secession, or they immediately self destruct in 15 days.

This country is NOT the one I learned about when I was a kidlet, and not the one my father fought for... he is rolling over in his grave, along with millions of other folks that fought for this country - they were fighting for an idea, NOT a piece of real estate... especially real estate that could be taken by "Eminent domain" and sold to a sleazy developer!

I wish those "Old white guys" would have done a better job of writing the foundation bricks for the building of freedom, because those that followed are experts of "re-interpreting" all that lofty but vague language.

The president was never intended to have even one tenth of the power that he has, and the federal congress was NEVER intended to be the insatiably ravenous, growing monster that it has become.

We need those Ol' White guys to come back and re-do all the documents, like the second amendment the Constitution... it should read:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. The Free state shall mean the full and complete country hereby called These United States. The Militia and the People shall, now and forever, be defined as all of the common people who are lawful citizens, and the Militia shall be made up of every lawful citizen, and their responsibility shall be to keep the freedoms that so many have have fought and died for."

See... you gotta spell it out for the folks that get power hungry...

...or kill them!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, August 24, 2008, at 18:18:50 (ZULU)

Strike third word from end of last paragraph "or" and replace with "and then" and I'd go with it. There's too many people of this rock anyways, about half of 6.6 billion is more better'er.

S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Monday, August 25, 2008, at 07:28:02 (ZULU)

Medicjim:

Have you done any parts tuning of your CZ452 trigger?

My current plan is to get the CZ452 Silhouette, do some parts tuning of the trigger and perhaps get some bedding done if needed by a local stock specialist. That should still be a lot cheaper (in Canada) than the Sako Quad.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, August 25, 2008, at 12:58:19 (ZULU)

I bedded the CZ, but haven't made any changes to the trigger. Mine is pretty darn good, a little heavy. I'll probably give the Brooks kit a try...infinite adjustability on a rimfire rifle doesn't seem mandatory to me.

medicjim
Monday, August 25, 2008, at 14:47:39 (ZULU)

thanks for your thoughts on the CZ452, Medicjim.

Concur that infinite adjustability is not a big goal. The Brooks kit has the charms of price, simplicity and support for international shipping.

http://www.cz452.com/springkit.html

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, August 25, 2008, at 16:50:41 (ZULU)

Click for rimfirecentral.com. They know this stuff.

CDC'
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, at 12:02:35 (ZULU)

Had my Cz452 American .17HMR for about 4 yrs now,Great lil rifle.Havent done anything to the trigger 'cept back it off abit.The stock one aint all that bad,once ya get used to them.To me,its a reminder that it has its own "soul".Been thinking about a Timney for it for little while,but its a "one of these days" kinda thing.

About a year back,I was talkin to a smithy and was informed that the barrels are threaded.So makin a caliber swap from .17HMR to .22mag shouldnt be all that difficult(?).Cant say for a fact wether thats true or not,as so far the HMR has dropped everything I have needed it too,and havent seen the need change it.

Brownells offers a replacement sear for the 452,and an even lighter spring.This was the route I had considered,untill I learned of the Timney.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Tuesday, August 26, 2008, at 12:49:53 (ZULU)

Gents: The young man (formerly known as "boy") came forward for the "next generation airborne" portion of the ceremony. I was surprised at how few had family there of prior airborne vintage. DA regs said "no bloodwings..." and they quoted that portion. So I did it anyway. But that was just the show part. My son's big mistake was going to the far back of the formation for the general pinning ceremony. The K-Pot idea went out the window---we decided on the steel pot, rigged airborne of course, to pound them in. My ex took the pictures...probably not the best idea in the world, now that i think on it:)) FWIW, he is plenty full of himself, for all the right reasons. And, we got him to the division and brigade we aimed for. Working the battalion now--which is the easier part. For me--it was just a hoot to be on the DZ and remembering pieces of jump school long forgotten. It has changed significantly...but not really.

Well, as I figured: Intervention on the quiet to shore up the dollar. China is our benefactor. This is not good, but will we give a damn when gas prices fall because of it? While the currency is being manipulated by dubious foriegn sources--the underlying fundamentals are still killing us: We cannot export greenbacks indefinately. Click

Joe M
Tuesday, August 26, 2008, at 13:55:28 (ZULU)

Deal for pistoleers...

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=139272&t=11082005

I don't have much use for this contraption but maybe some of you do. The deal is pretty outrageous.

LTChip
Wednesday, August 27, 2008, at 19:32:14 (ZULU)

JoeM-congrats to the both of you.

Any bets on if you'll get copies of the pix?

WR Moore
Thursday, August 28, 2008, at 05:57:22 (ZULU)

I think I got an interesting Poser.

Says he's...

>"Former Special Operations Sniper "Rangers, Lead the way!" <

Claims to have been an Army Special Operations sniper and trained at Quantico in 1979.

And he further says about his "Sniper rifle"

>"Catshooter: This rifle was AMU-built on a single-shot Mauser action, had a 28 inch heavy bull barrel, and had a Unertl 15 power externally adjustable telescope. I do not recall what the weight of the rifle was, but it was heavier than the M40 A1 that I shot when at the Quantico Scout/Sniper Instructor School in 1979.

Watching the trajectory of the bullet trace for 1,000 yard shots was like a laser, compared with the M118 we were shooting in the M40A1 rifles at the same range.

I was told that the 190 grain SMK had 1,550 fps velocity as it crossed the 1,000 yard pits. I can attest to the loud supersonic "snap" as the bullet passed me when pulling targets.

That was a great rifle.

Karl in Phoenix "<

Anyone wanna comment on this one???

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, August 29, 2008, at 01:45:16 (ZULU)

'Lito- Gee, Robin Moore's book and a few assorted histories of SF state the SF motto as: De Oppresso Libre (devout apologies if I've mis-spelled this). Granted, a lot of SF guys come by way of the Rangers, but you'd have thought he'd have adapted to his new unit.

I'm just down the road from Q and there is/was cross-training by the Corps of personnel from other services. Master Rick would be much better qualified to pull the gillie off this clown.

I'm having a senior moment or I'd give you the name of the range complex he'd have trained on-other than Weapons Training Battalion, Quantico. [Calvin A. Lloyd?]

WR Moore
Friday, August 29, 2008, at 02:57:19 (ZULU)

WR Moore,

Not to sound like I'm defending the guy, but Special Operations does not always equal Special Forces.

Now, with that out of the way, I've got my doubts about him.

But that's just me.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Friday, August 29, 2008, at 05:07:08 (ZULU)

jc-you'll note I quote literature, not personal experience. However, the guys I've met on loan to various other governmental departments were all SF.

Wonder what velocity (and using what case) you have to launch a 190gr SMK at to have 1550 as a retained V at 1K? Off the top of my head, .300 Win Mag or .30/.338 might do it?

WR Moore
Friday, August 29, 2008, at 06:46:25 (ZULU)

WR...

The 190SMK will do 1625~ish at 1k with a muzzle velocity of 3100.

The standard M190-A round at 2950 will be doing 1525 at 1k.

The thing that smells bad is the Single shot Mauser, and the 15X Unertl with external mounts.

At that time, the AMU was having their rifles built at Remington and Winchester, and they were NOT using Mausers for anything. Even back in WW2, our snipers never used Mausers (unless captured in the hedgerows).

And they had abandoned the external mount Unertl for newer designs.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, August 29, 2008, at 12:20:23 (ZULU)

re: claimed sniper

The "...AMU-built on a single-shot Mauser action" tweaked my BS meter too. I find it hard to believe that AMU would be using anything other than American commercial production actions for a build. I would also doubt that AMU would be building a rifle intended for combat (as opposed to just competition) on a single-shot action of any kind, unless it was for a very big cartridge.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, August 29, 2008, at 16:53:29 (ZULU)

Re: Possible poser.

Have never heard of a rifle like that.

However, the Ranger battalions all have trained snipers, and I know some who went through the Marine Corps sniper school.

The Ranger snipers currently have a mixture of M110 SASS and Mk 13s, which is a Remington long-action in an Accuracy International chassis chambered for the government A191 .300 WM round. That 190SMK stays supersonic at sea level to 1250 yards or beyond.

Lindy
Creede, Colorado, U.S.A. - Friday, August 29, 2008, at 18:22:48 (ZULU)

"The thing that smells bad is the Single shot Mauser, and the 15X Unertl with external mounts.

That kinda smelled to me also. However, I'm not real clear off the top of my head on when who adopted what in them thar days. The thought did occur to me that the platform might have been used either as a test bed for cartridge and/or suppressor development (wierd, whould have expected a more modern action) or as something cobbled together as "deniable". Or might have been someones pet personal project.

Damn, I forgot to verify the name of the Quantico range complex! Do believe my later thought to be correct.

WR Moore
Friday, August 29, 2008, at 23:49:57 (ZULU)

From The Strategy Page

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2008810222128.asp

The Sniper Revolution

by James Dunnigan

August 10, 2008

In Iraq and Afghanistan, infantry tactics have changed considerably over the last few years. This is largely gone unnoticed back home, unless you happen to know an old soldier or marine that remembers the old style of shooting. Put simply, the emphasis is on a lot fewer bullets fired, and much more accurate shooting. Elite forces, like the Special Forces and SEALs, have always operated this way. But that's because they had the skill, and opportunity to train frequently, to make it work. But the army and marines have found that their troops can fight the same way with the help of some new weapons, equipment and tactics. Plus lots of combat experience and specialized training. This includes the use of new shooting simulators, which allows troops to fire a lot of virtual bullets, in a realistic setting, without all the hassle and expense of going to a firing range.

One thing that helped, and that was developing for two decades, was the greater used of snipers. Currently, about ten percent of American infantry are trained and equipped as snipers. Commanders have found that filling the battlefield with two man (spotter and shooter) sniper teams not only provides more intelligence, but also lots of precision firepower. Snipers are better at finding the enemy, and killing them with a minimum of noise and fuss. But new rifle sights (both day and night types), have made all infantry capable of accurate, single shot, fire. With the emphasis on keeping civilian casualties down, and the tendency of the enemy to use civilians as human shields, lots of snipers, or infantrymen who can take an accurate shot at typical battle ranges (under 100 meters), are the best way to win without killing a lot of civilians.

New sniper equipment has made a big difference. The U.S. Army has been issuing the new M110 SASS (Semi-Automatic Sniper System) to troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. This weapon is not a big technological breakthrough. It is based on the older AR-10 rifle. The U.S. Navy has been buying a similar weapon, the SR25. This is also known as the Mk11 Sniper Rifle System (SRS). These new semi-automatic sniper rifles are 7.62mm weapons based on the designs of M-16 creator, retired USAF Colonel Gene Stoner. The basis for the M-16 was the AR-15, and a 7.62mm version of that weapon was called the AR-10. About half the parts in the SR25 are interchangeable with those in the M-16.

The Stoner sniper rifles achieved its high accuracy partly by using a 20 inch heavy floating barrel. The "floating" means that the barrel is attached only to the main body of the rifle to reduce resonance (which throws off accuracy.) The M110 weighs 17.3 pounds in combat, and about 70 pounds with all components of the system. The M110 can use a ten or twenty round magazine. The 40.5 inch long rifle can have a six inch tube attached to the barrel, which reduces the noise and flash made when the rifle fires, and largely eliminates nearby dust rising into the air, which often gives away the snipers position.

Previously, many snipers have had success using tuned up M-14s (from the 1960s) as sniper rifles. While semi-automatic and rugged, the M14 wasn't designed to be a sniper rifle. The AR-10 was a better model for a semi-automatic sniper rifle, since it is inherently more reliable and accurate. As far back as World War II, it was known that there were many situations where a semi-automatic sniper rifle would come in handy. But it's taken over half a century to solve the reliability and accuracy problems.

The M110 has largely replaced the bolt-action M24, and provided commanders with much more effective snipers. That increase in numbers (of snipers) and their effectiveness, has changed the look (less random fire from U.S. troops) and feel (the U.S. troops appear more in control) of the battlefield. It's also easier to spot the enemy. He's usually the guy firing on automatic. The fellows firing one shot at a time are the Americans, and they are usually the last ones standing.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, August 30, 2008, at 03:38:52 (ZULU)

"Currently, about ten percent of American infantry are trained and equipped as snipers."

That's complete B.S. I wish it were true, but the service schools and every civilian-run training facility in the U.S. couldn't make it so.

And obviously the author doesn't know what a suppressor is, either - "...six inch tube attached to the barrel, which reduces the noise and flash made when the rifle fires, and largely eliminates nearby dust rising into the air..."

Oh, well.

Lindy
Creede, Colorado, U.S.A. - Saturday, August 30, 2008, at 04:01:24 (ZULU)

10%?

""Till he was aware of his father's mare with Kamal upon her back,

And when he could spy the white of her eye, he made the pistol crack.

He has fired once, he has fired twice, but the whistling ball went wide.

""Ye shoot like a soldier," Kamal said. "Show now if ye can ride.""

"Ballad of East and West"____Kipling.

CDC'
Saturday, August 30, 2008, at 04:56:18 (ZULU)

"Currently, about ten percent of American infantry are trained and equipped as snipers."

Methinks they confuse Dedicated Marksmen with snipers. They're not the first.

WR Moore
Saturday, August 30, 2008, at 09:39:40 (ZULU)

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,

and the women come out, to cut up what remains,

just roll to your rifle, and blow out your brains,

and go go your Gawd like a soldier."

-Kipling

I'm home for a couple of weeks. And I'm really enjoying what the greatest country on Earth had to offer, freedom. (and Tex-Mex food)It's been over a quarter of a century since I've travelled overseas, and it's good to do, it reminds me that, as screwed up as some things are, we live in a virtual Paradise. I can even laugh at the political battles going on.....I was a hundred feet away from Obama when he landed in Kabul, with an M240 and a full belt. Sigh.

I'll be at Badlands come Monday. Joe, congrats on your son.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Saturday, August 30, 2008, at 16:14:30 (ZULU)

Click for Steyn on Palin. She's my kind of girl.

CDC'
Sunday, August 31, 2008, at 03:43:58 (ZULU)

"I was a hundred feet away from Obama when he landed in Kabul, with an M240 and a full belt."

That statement alone shows they are spending to much time emphasizing "weapon discipline" ....and not enough on "threat identification".If only he would have run over an IED...or encountered some of Hitlery's "sniper fire",that we are still hearing about.....Kinda sad when ya cant count on the enemy to do ya a favor.

Got H-D's 105th in full swing...been tryin anything I can to avoid the madness of it,And when Angel asked if I would go along to pick up her kid from helpin out up at my Sis's place.I was only to happy to go.Had 2 rifles and my range bag packed in the Explorer before ya could say "Road Trip".

UnPat

UnPat
Sunday, August 31, 2008, at 10:15:47 (ZULU)

A local gun butcher screwed-up the installation of a fixed Novak sight on one of my 1911s so I sent it to someone who was supposed to know what he was doing. You can now see daylight under the rear sight. I don't trust it and want to be sure it never moves again. Do any of you gentlemen have any suggestions? Silver solder, perhaps?

CDC'
Sunday, August 31, 2008, at 12:41:31 (ZULU)

CDC'- Possibly the silver solder; maybe JB Weld or some two-part epoxy? Which ever makes it "fixed", yet able to be repaired/removed when/if needed.

Good luck...

cmoore
Dago, Kali, USofA - Sunday, August 31, 2008, at 12:52:06 (ZULU)

CDC...

>"Click for Steyn on Palin. She's my kind of girl."<

Good read!!

I was so disenchanted with McCain that I was thinking of Bob Barr or just staying home.

When I found out her Creds, I laughed out loud - McCain has done put a torpedo in Obama's campaign that he can't survive.

Life member of the NRA... does she have a single sister??

McCain will now get most of the white woman's vote that are not dedicated lefties, and a fair amount of the black woman's vote...

... while the press takes Bidden apart.

About a month ago, Rushbo said, "We couldn't be so lucky as to have Obama pick Bidden"...

... and then he DID!

Bidden has tons of baggage, including his son who is smack in the middle of the old "Washington lobbiest" culture, and Bidden has been passing bills for his son's firm (can you spell - "Duh").

I coudn't figure Obama picking Bidden - he is universally disliked by the public, and his stage pressence is one of smirking and contempt. That will go over big with the current public, who has a 9% approval of "Old Washington"... but I think the other guys on the short list said "No" to Obama, cuz they see Obama going down - either in November, or in four years, taking the other guy with him. And a good, solid job as a Senator or Governor, is much better than being an also ran, or a failed, has been, vice president.

I'm gonna vote this time fersure fersure! :))

I LOVE THAT WOMAN!!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, August 31, 2008, at 13:27:27 (ZULU)

CDC on rear sight rework:

Good epoxy would be my recommendation too. Simplifies options later, and avoids higher heat on the slide. You can always decompose the epoxy later with a heat gun or low temperature oven to permit removal.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, August 31, 2008, at 14:21:51 (ZULU)

Lito, All -- I'm in a whole lot mo' better'er mood since I heard the announcement about Palin for McCain's running mate.

I have to say this -- Lito and you other Hawgs: THE NEXT TIME I HEAR OR READ " I'M SITTING THIS ONE OUT" OR " I'M NOT VOTING", OR "I'M VOTING FOR XXXX (SOME DAMN NAME NEVER FRIGGEN HEARD OF)"....I'M GONNA TAKE A MID YEAR PRODUCTION REM PSS BARREL (not worth sh*t) AND BEAT THE LIVING CRAP OUT OF WHOEVER THAT IS.

EVERY DAM ONE OF YOU BETTA GET OUT AND VOTE EITHER FOR THE ONE YOU LIKE THE BEST OR THE ONE THAT YOU DISLIKE THE LEAST.... (AND IT BETTA NOT BE OBAMA EITHER - LOL).

Thats all :))

(running for cover).

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Sunday, August 31, 2008, at 22:08:17 (ZULU)

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