Sniper Country Duty Roster

Dirty Steve said, "I also put on the list where they went when I got rid of them. I keep those on the list for about 5 years."

I do that, too, but I don't ever take them off. I want to know where every one I ever got rid of went. Guns have a very long lifetime, and I see no reason to assume that information won't ever be needed. It's in a computer file, and digital storage is cheap, so there's no reason to delete such information.

A character in one of Dan Simmons' recent novels said, "The question is not whether I'm paranoid, but whether I'm paranoid enough."

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, May 15, 2007, at 01:07:40 (ZULU)

Over the weekend I picked up a Burris discount certificate at the ASC match. Does anyone have first hand experience with their XTR line of scopes. I am considering the 6x24x50 for a 338 lapua. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

TnyY
Woodbridge, NJ, USA - Tuesday, May 15, 2007, at 02:28:43 (ZULU)

Hey dudes ... have a new found admiration for a shotgun these days.

Practically stole an as new 11-87 Police recently.

Thoughts on the weapon other than keeping it clean?

brian k. sain
Tuesday, May 15, 2007, at 16:19:27 (ZULU)

BKS-there are some improved gas seals available, check Brownells. Depending upon age of the weapon, there is a product improved gas piston assembly available. I've got an early one and it still has all the original parts, haven't managed to break anything yet.

If it's the 5 shot version, keep it that way. Made mine into an 8 shot and regretted it down the road-after I mounted a Sure-Fire tac light. The @#$% mount must have been a pintle hitch on a 5 ton truck.

WR Moore
Tuesday, May 15, 2007, at 17:38:41 (ZULU)

Brian (In)sain.

Clean it???

Wazzat?

I just shoot mine and put it away. IT workie every time.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, May 15, 2007, at 18:24:34 (ZULU)

Lindy,

I should keep two lists. One corrently owned and a second of sold guns. I just don't like the wife knowing how many should be in the safe. She bought most of the as gifts for me so she gets mad when I trade one in for another. Two lists would solve this.

I was contacted by the ATF recently about a GUN THEY HAD. tHEY WANTED TO KNOW IF i HAD ANY (sorry I hit the caps lock)intrest in the gun. It was recovered with some other stolen property.

Dirty Steve...........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Tuesday, May 15, 2007, at 18:35:56 (ZULU)

Anyone concerned with 'global warming' or 'carbon footprint' might take a look at this study:

http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

It looks at energy consumed from womb-2-tomb for vehicles (mining the ore, smelting, recycling, etc.). Pretty interesting.

Duman
Tuesday, May 15, 2007, at 19:30:29 (ZULU)

Dang it's dry around here. Nuff said bout that.

Meeeeestor Sain....

Only advise the Boltster has for you on the 11-87 is to pick a couple of loads and make sure they cycle and make it go boom each time. They aren't that finicky but it nebber hurts to make sure.

Gun holder thingy......

Ordered a Dokosil Aggresor case. Will advise actual clear length when it comes in next week from Cabelas. With my daughter getting married next Feb. 29, I've got to watch how many sheckles I spend on stuff.

Time for Bernie Mac Show (need a little comedy after today), Bolt out!

Bolt
Dryer than popcorn fart in......., NC, - Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 00:03:34 (ZULU)

[Written by Jim Blasingame, Force Science News provided by The Force Science Research Center. 5/9/07]

New findings on how offenders train with, carry and deploy the weapons they use to attack police officers have emerged in a just-published, 5-year study by the FBI.

Among other things, the data reveal that most would-be cop killers:

--show signs of being armed that officers miss;

--have more experience using deadly force in “street combat” than their intended victims;

--practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately;

--have no hesitation whatsoever about pulling the trigger. “If you hesitate,” one told the study’s researchers, “you’re dead. You have the instinct or you don’t. If you don’t, you’re in trouble on the street….”

These and other weapons-related findings comprise one chapter in a 180-page research summary called “Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation’s Law Enforcement Officers.” The study is the third in a series of long investigations into fatal and nonfatal attacks on POs by the FBI team of Dr. Anthony Pinizzotto, clinical forensic psychologist, and Ed Davis, criminal investigative instructor, both with the Bureau’s Behavioral Science Unit, and Charles Miller III, coordinator of the LEOs Killed and Assaulted program.

“Violent Encounters” also reports in detail on the personal characteristics of attacked officers and their assaulters, the role of perception in life-threatening confrontations, the myths of memory that can hamper OIS investigations, the suicide-by-cop phenomenon, current training issues, and other matters relevant to officer survival. (Force Science News and our strategic partner PoliceOne.com will be reporting on more findings from this landmark study in future transmissions.)

Commenting on the broad-based study, Dr. Bill Lewinski, executive director of the Force Science Research Center at Minnesota State University-Mankato, called it “very challenging and insightful--important work that only a handful of gifted and experienced researchers could accomplish.”

From a pool of more than 800 incidents, the researchers selected 40, involving 43 offenders (13 of them admitted gangbangers-drug traffickers) and 50 officers, for in-depth exploration. They visited crime scenes and extensively interviewed surviving officers and attackers alike, most of the latter in prison.

Here are highlights of what they learned about weapon selection, familiarity, transport and use by criminals attempting to murder cops, a small portion of the overall research:

Weapon Choice

Predominately handguns were used in the assaults on officers and all but one were obtained illegally, usually in street transactions or in thefts. In contrast to media myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows. What was available “was the overriding factor in weapon choice,” the report says. Only 1 offender hand-picked a particular gun “because he felt it would do the most damage to a human being.”

Researcher Davis, in a presentation and discussion for the International Assn. of Chiefs of Police, noted that none of the attackers interviewed was “hindered by any law--federal, state or local--that has ever been established to prevent gun ownership. They just laughed at gun laws.”

Familiarity

Several of the offenders began regularly to carry weapons when they were 9 to 12 years old, although the average age was 17 when they first started packing “most of the time.” Gang members especially started young.

Nearly 40% of the offenders had some type of formal firearms training, primarily from the military. More than 80% “regularly practiced with handguns, averaging 23 practice sessions a year,” the study reports, usually in informal settings like trash dumps, rural woods, back yards and “street corners in known drug-trafficking areas.”

One spoke of being motivated to improve his gun skills by his belief that officers “go to the range two, three times a week [and] practice arms so they can hit anything.”

In reality, victim officers in the study averaged just 14 hours of sidearm training and 2.5 qualifications per year. Only 6 of the 50 officers reported practicing regularly with handguns apart from what their department required, and that was mostly in competitive shooting. Overall, the offenders practiced more often than the officers they assaulted, and this “may have helped increase [their] marksmanship skills,” the study says.

The offender quoted above about his practice motivation, for example, fired 12 rounds at an officer, striking him 3 times. The officer fired 7 rounds, all misses.

More than 40% of the offenders had been involved in actual shooting confrontations before they feloniously assaulted an officer. Ten of these “street combat veterans,” all from “inner-city, drug-trafficking environments,” had taken part in 5 or more “criminal firefight experiences” in their lifetime.

One reported that he was 14 when he was first shot on the street, “about 18 before a cop shot me.” Another said getting shot was a pivotal experience “because I made up my mind no one was gonna shoot me again.”

Again in contrast, only 8 of the 50 LEO victims had participated in a prior shooting; 1 had been involved in 2 previously, another in 3. Seven of the 8 had killed offenders.

Concealment

The offenders said they most often hid guns on their person in the front waistband, with the groin area and the small of the back nearly tied for second place. Some occasionally gave their weapons to another person to carry, “most often a female companion.” None regularly used a holster, and about 40% at least sometimes carried a backup weapon.

In motor vehicles, they most often kept their firearm readily available on their person, or, less often, under the seat. In residences, most stashed their weapon under a pillow, on a nightstand, under the mattress--somewhere within immediate reach while in bed.

Almost all carried when on the move and strong majorities did so when socializing, committing crimes or being at home. About one-third brought weapons with them to work. Interestingly, the offenders in this study more commonly admitted having guns under all these circumstances than did offenders interviewed in the researchers’ earlier 2 surveys, conducted in the 1980s and ’90s.

According to Davis, “Male offenders said time and time again that female officers tend to search them more thoroughly than male officers. In prison, most of the offenders were more afraid to carry contraband or weapons when a female CO was on duty.”

On the street, however, both male and female officers too often regard female subjects “as less of a threat, assuming that they not going to have a gun,” Davis said. In truth, the researchers concluded that more female offenders are armed today than 20 years ago--“not just female gang associates, but female offenders generally.”

Shooting Style

Twenty-six of the offenders [about 60%], including all of the street combat veterans, “claimed to be instinctive shooters, pointing and firing the weapon without consciously aligning the sights,” the study says.

“They practice getting the gun out and using it,” Davis explained. “They shoot for effect.” Or as one of the offenders put it: “[W]e’re not working with no marksmanship….We just putting it in your direction, you know….It don’t matter…as long as it’s gonna hit you…if it’s up at your head or your chest, down at your legs, whatever….Once I squeeze and you fall, then…if I want to execute you, then I could go from there.”

Hit Rate

More often than the officers they attacked, offenders delivered at least some rounds on target in their encounters. Nearly 70% of assailants were successful in that regard with handguns, compared to about 40% of the victim officers, the study found. (Efforts of offenders and officers to get on target were considered successful if any rounds struck, regardless of the number fired.)

Davis speculated that the offenders might have had an advantage because in all but 3 cases they fired first, usually catching the officer by surprise. Indeed, the report points out, “10 of the total victim officers had been wounded [and thus impaired] before they returned gunfire at their attackers.”

Missed Cues

Officers would less likely be caught off guard by attackers if they were more observant of indicators of concealed weapons, the study concludes. These particularly include manners of dress, ways of moving and unconscious gestures often related to carrying.

“Officers should look for unnatural protrusions or bulges in the waist, back and crotch areas,” the study says, and watch for “shirts that appear rippled or wavy on one side of the body while the fabric on the other side appears smooth.” In warm weather, multilayered clothing inappropriate to the temperature may be a giveaway. On cold or rainy days, a subject’s jacket hood may not be covering his head because it is being used to conceal a handgun.

Because they eschew holsters, offenders reported frequently touching a concealed gun with hands or arms “to assure themselves that it is still hidden, secure and accessible” and hasn’t shifted. Such gestures are especially noticeable “whenever individuals change body positions, such as standing, sitting or exiting a vehicle.” If they run, they may need to keep a constant grip on a hidden gun to control it.

Just as cops generally blade their body to make their sidearm less accessible, armed criminals “do the same in encounters with LEOs to ensure concealment and easy access.”

An irony, Davis noted, is that officers who are assigned to look for concealed weapons, while working off-duty security at night clubs for instance, are often highly proficient at detecting them. “But then when they go back to the street without that specific assignment, they seem to ‘turn off’ that skill,” and thus are startled--sometimes fatally--when a suspect suddenly produces a weapon and attacks.

Mind-set

Thirty-six of the 50 officers in the study had “experienced hazardous situations where they had the legal authority” to use deadly force “but chose not to shoot.” They averaged 4 such prior incidents before the encounters that the researchers investigated. “It appeared clear that none of these officers were willing to use deadly force against an offender if other options were available,” the researchers concluded.

The offenders were of a different mind-set entirely. In fact, Davis said the study team “did not realize how cold blooded the younger generation of offender is. They have been exposed to killing after killing, they fully expect to get killed and they don’t hesitate to shoot anybody, including a police officer. They can go from riding down the street saying what a beautiful day it is to killing in the next instant.”

“Offenders typically displayed no moral or ethical restraints in using firearms,” the report states. “In fact, the street combat veterans survived by developing a shoot-first mentality.

“Officers never can assume that a criminal is unarmed until they have thoroughly searched the person and the surroundings themselves.” Nor, in the interest of personal safety, can officers “let their guards down in any type of law enforcement situation.”

--------------------

FYI,

Trajan Aurelius

New findings from FBI about cop attackers & their weapons
East Bay, California, USA - Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 00:49:03 (ZULU)

We lost another brother officer up this way on Friday. Second officer killed in NH in less than a year. Cpl Bruce McKay from Franconia NH was killed following a "routine" traffic stop. The motorist was well known to him with a long history including assault on a PO, Cpl McKay. The driver said "Get another officer' and then drove off leading to a pursuit. Cpl Mckay forced him to a stop, pepper sprayed him and wrestled with him within the automobile. The Cpl Mckay turned from the car, unknown why exactly, at which point the driver shot him four times in the back and then proceeded to run the Cpl over with his car. A passing witness saw this occurr and stopped to help. While the witnesses son got on the police radio to call for help, the witness retrieved the offices firearm, ordered the suspect to drop his firearm, which he was in the process of reloading. When the guy didn't drop the gun, the witness shot him and killed him. the AG's office has already cleared the witness and called it a justified shooting.

Cpl Mckay,age 48 was a 12 year veteran and left two children and a fiance. Prayers are in order for him and his family. Stay safe brothers and sisters in and out of law enforcement.

Murph

John Murphy
NH, USA - Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 02:27:39 (ZULU)

11-87 is an 2005 model.

Remington brought 5 of them to the Mississippi Police Championships and zeroed it only ... but Katrina canked the match.

Now "used" guns ...

They had one left.

18", rifle sights (love 'em), synthetic stock, extended mag version.

Got it for a song.

Been really really close in to the BGs lately. Just the way it's gone.

"I'm too close for missiles. I'm switching to guns"

Maverick - Top Gun

brian k. sain
Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 02:49:14 (ZULU)

Trajan,

That's not new, there was a link to it on here a while back. And, FYI, in the future, please just post a link, so it doesn't take up so much space.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 02:49:24 (ZULU)

BKS: "Practically stole an as new 11-87 Police recently.

"Thoughts on the weapon other than keeping it clean?"

Yeah, NPA on your right target then shoot the far left one first. Recoil becomes your friend.

But you knew that.

CDC'
Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 04:25:42 (ZULU)

Trajan, that might have been posted but I hadn't seen it. Thanks for the post. I think we might be neighbors eh?

I had a bit of a problem today on the job. I had my bags on working with the guys because I still enjoy heavy wood framing. I picked up a few sticks of wet and green 6X6 lumber and felt a funny kind of squeeky rip in my stomach. I put them down and drop my bags to feel a golf ball sized lump right above my belly button. I pushed on it and it was the squeeky squishy feeling again but without the rip and it popped back inside. Doc says it's an abdominal hernia. Super. My big match is in two weeks. Now I'm going to see a surgeon tomorrow and hopefully he can fix it really soon. My spring time allergies are turned up right now so every time I sneeze or cough I have to push in on the hole to keep my guts from sticking out again. Wierd feeling. Doesn't really hurt too bad just feels strange. The timing sucks as I've got two really good paying side jobs going, a full plate at my regular job all day and a big two day match with a kick ass prize table at the end of the month.

I'll reschedule the side jobs and shoot the match with a weight belt or wetsuit I don't know man fuck it I'm shooting.

Good score on the 11-87 Brian. I hope things don't get so nasty and up close that you have to use it. I don't know how you LE guys do it really. Hesitation can get you killed but there are so many things you must have to think about and confirm before pulling the trigger. I really don't think I could do it.

Later fellas,

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 04:57:47 (ZULU)

Marc,

I knew an old man that kept a smooth, flat piece of 1/4" wood tucked into hit belt to keep his hernia in. You'll probably need something thinner than a weight belt to keep it in place, though. I tried that for broken ribs, once, and it was more of a PITA than it was worth. You might check out your local saddle shop/shoe repair and get them to make you a 4" wide belt out of lightweight chap leather. It'll be soft enought to conform to your body and reduce slippage.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 05:24:56 (ZULU)

Funny you should mention that Travis. I've been thinking about all sorts of different things I could try to hold it together for now. I'll know more after tomorrow when I see the surgeon.

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 05:43:12 (ZULU)

Trajan: Thanks for the post. Things like that on mindset and tactical thinking are never the worse for repetition. Burning bandwidth like that is not wasted, in contrast to the stuff that Travis puts on from time to time. Last I heard, he didn't run the website.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 05:52:42 (ZULU)

Guys,

Got to thinking the other day, (I know, I know, I was shocked, too.) since there is so much dissention among the various states in regards to immigration, why not make the head of immigration an elected state office, sorta like a sheriff. I.E.-Each state deals with it the way they want. I'd actually think it'd be better handled regionally, with the parts of the states with a foreign border being their own regions. That way, if, say, ranchers in southern New Mexico are the ones having to deal with illegals, they could have some input, rather than just writing their congressman, who don't give a shit, anyhow.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 06:06:11 (ZULU)

Trajan: Great post.

medicjim: If it is convenient, click my name, go to the "WOD VIDEOS" on the right side of the page and check out those work outs.

Guys: Click on the second video down and the "Bottom to Bottom Tabata" last on the list. Check out the little brunette PT Goddess. If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't have believed it.

CDC'
Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 13:31:59 (ZULU)

'Lito, e-mail inbound from Roster, it'll explain why!

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 14:47:30 (ZULU)

BKS-IIRC, the 18" version is cylinder bore. You might want to check the patterns on that bad boy. My 21" is IC and patterns VERY well. Could always fit choke tubes.

I've got a spare barrel and haven't been able to make up my mind between sending it off to Vang or turning it into an entry gun. But you can't get choke tubes on a 14" 11-87. Or can you? The gas ports are in the way.

WR Moore
Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 15:14:43 (ZULU)

Marc,

Try wearing a tight fitting "Under Armor" shirt. Bound to be more comfortable than a wet suit.

Dirty Steve.........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 18:36:53 (ZULU)

WR, CDC ... Copy all.

Will shoot slugs primarily ... friggin' show stopper on auto sheetmetal.

If I do have to go to the OO ... a larger pattern won't hurt as he will probably be running and still somewhat close in. Need all the help I can get the way I shoot ...

Prolly run all slugs in the gun plus a couple OO in a 4 rd. sidesaddle.

Otherwise I'll shoot him with a rifle.

Will pattern the weapon asap.

Thanks guys.

brian k. sain
Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 18:44:44 (ZULU)

BKS: Plaxco and Awerbuck (sp?) made good videos on combat shotgun. If you think you can get some use from them, email me an address and I'll lend them.

CDC'
Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 04:09:18 (ZULU)

Guys,

Anyone familiar with Lt.Col.(Ret.) Anthony R. Herbert and his book, "Soldier?" BTW, if anyone needs a copy,for free, I have two, they came in a big box of books I purchased at a garage sale.

Also, Any thoughts on the DPMS AP4 LR-308? Is it just as prone to the same problems as the AR-10's recently discussed?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 04:17:05 (ZULU)

Brian,

Here in the Peoples Republic of Kalyfornia, some LE agencies use #4 buckshot instead of #00. Terminal, or terminating, performance is comparable, as is throw weight. As General Pershing said "Birdshot or buckshot, at 20 yards it's still a bloody rathole." (sic)

The difference is that #4 buck have about 22 each .32 caliber ball; #00 has about 9 each .38 balls.

For crowd control the #4 has the edge, especially when you bounce it off the ground about 6 feet in front of the crowd. It won't kill or cripple people, it hurts and leave a mark and the amount of dust kicked up is impressive.

I prefer a Mossberg 590 with ghost ring sights. I replaced the rubber buttpad with a steel one because it shortend the pull a bit and for hitting people. Soldiering is different that LE.

FWIW.

Trajan

Experience is directly porportional to the amount of equipment destroyed.

Trajan Aurelius
Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 04:24:33 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve,

I know you and the other cops will appreciate this. Click my name.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 11:33:52 (ZULU)

Zeiss Conquest 12X binos are on ebay for $510. The 15X are $560. Both are "Buy it now".

Way cheap.

CDC'
Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 14:51:58 (ZULU)

The advantages of using #4 buckshot is an old wives tale. It might make sense theoretically, but it just doesn't cut it in practical use.

In addition, to use lethal ammunition for crowd control is courting disaster. Not only for the crowd but also for the career of the LEO.

Not just MHO!

Edited to add: #4 buckshot loads contain between 27 to 41 .24 caliber pellets. 00 buck loads contain between 9 and 18 .33 caliber pellets.

ALAN
Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 15:03:08 (ZULU)

Travis,

If it's still available, I'll take the extra copy. I'll forward it on to someone else when I'm through.

CDC', those videos are good. I picked up my own copy on DVD, which makes it easier to skip to different sections.

ALAN, "...to use lethal ammunition for crowd control is courting disaster." Kent State, anyone?

Duman
Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 15:49:17 (ZULU)

Travis,

Yup those were good too.

Chuck,

You interested in going to the range Saturday? I fergot why you aint at work. I am ready to go if the farrier don't come out that morning.

Murph,

My condolences to that family.

Dirty Steve........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 17:33:31 (ZULU)

TV news says that he congress has agreed on a bill that would give instant amnesty and green cards and work permits to all 12,000,000 illegal mexicans. Most (dems and Repubs) are behind it - it is a Ted Kennedy bill (Duh???)

Means that each one of these parasites can bring their families over (all 32 of their brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, etc).

Brace yourselves, it's gonna get real expensive to live in the USA, with supplying all these folks with new schooling, free medical benifits, welfare.... and your jobs are going south - er... no, the south is coming to your jobs.

This ain't about picking lettuce, it's about roofing, production lines, factory work, construction, office work, landscaping, retail, and on and on...

... and these political assholes are vying for my vote???

They don't need my vote... they gots 12,000,000 new voters - they get their voter card at the drivers license bureau - remember "Motor Voter"???

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 19:39:39 (ZULU)

Duman,

Done. Just send me an address.

Dirty Steve,

As a former horseshoer, (I'm no farrier than anyone else!) I shouldn't be telling you this, but we actually monitor our clients' communications, specifically so we can show up 15 minutes past the last possible moment for them to actually go do something else with their day.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 22:48:56 (ZULU)

Ken, thanks for the package! I got it, and lo-and-behold there wasn’t any ‘magic dust’ on it. I figured there’d be at least a glow from the uber-reliability infusion they put all that German stuff through, but no. I gotta say though, I do like the follower. Like you said, the baseplate arrangement leaves me cold. I’m gonna do some micrometer work and see how closely the MagPul follower stacks up. Should be interesting. As a side note, the steel mags I took to The Ranch actually seemed to be built sturdier than this one. More beef in the corners to support the feed lips and such. Not fitted and finished nearly to the prettiness degree this one is (parkerized versus Teflon), but the comparison is interesting.

Patron Kittywhacker, or maybe due to our new policy on immigration I should start calling you gatomuerte, you’ve got incoming e-mail on current tribulations in loading. Thought you’d be interested ‘cause I did the study on Varget and thrower accuracy that we’d done before on another powder. The Varget results weren’t NEARLY as pretty. The Hodgdons guy said that if I changed my technique slightly then I’d be back to minimal variability but with Varget. Interesting stuff, I’ll have to wait to see because the numbers don’t lie. He did verify my beliefs though that there is NO difference in kernel shape or size between Varget and H4895.

My right good friend Jim, that was a funny read. Yeah, slingin’ lead at 10 months LOL!

Piggie Pete, good to have you back. Nevermind the hecklers or even the Koches. In my travels, I’ve determined that this is THE place. Although I do spend some time on another site, it’s far from the HOME that this place has become. I got to thinking about it, I was lurking back before I moved here, and I’ve been here almost 10 years now. If SC would only offer a pension plan, I’d be set ;-) This year the ‘incentive’ for my son to push schoolwork through well was that if he did so, he’d get a week-long opportunity to kill as many javalina (wild, small South Texas pigs) as he could. I’m not sure if he really earned it, but it does appear he’ll get that chance at least for a few days.

So no help on my blinking problem, other than superglue, eh?

Bravo
Thursday, May 17, 2007, at 23:06:25 (ZULU)

There are days when things just suck.

I always knew, down deep in my heart, that cleaning was against God's design.

Well, I made the mistake of going against God's design and cleaned up the loading bench two weeks ago. I mean I needed to see what the top looked like after all these years.

And in the process, I lost a die. It must have rolled into the garbage can I keep under the press to catch fired primers.

It wasn't just "a die"... it was a single, $65 forming die that no body carries, and it has to be special ordered, and it's now back ordered for 90 days, cuz every other mother's son NEEDS to have MY DIE right now!!!

SHIT!!

Never, never, EVER clean your loading bench!!

God will punish you for it!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, May 18, 2007, at 03:19:38 (ZULU)

re: loading benches

I've learned the hard way not to leave a garbage container *next* to my loading bench. It's too easy for stuff to unintentionally fall in.

Moderate proximity only, so only *intentionally* discarded items end up in the garbage.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, May 18, 2007, at 04:09:36 (ZULU)

You alarmists think that "family unification" means that each illegal is good for four family members. Put your mind at rest. Coming from a barrio, I can assure you that everyone in Mexico is Pedro's cousin. They are ALL coming here. The welfare rolls will swell with Democrat voters.

Stop this one.

CDC'
Friday, May 18, 2007, at 04:12:09 (ZULU)

CDC...

They are already saying that if this POS law goes through, it will mean the end of the Republican party, and a guarantee of a full socialist state in 15 years.

We can NEVER assimilate this many people of a different culture, and uneducated, in such a short time.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, May 18, 2007, at 04:17:36 (ZULU)

We are letting a huge hostile force into the country. Click for a historical precedent

CDC'
Friday, May 18, 2007, at 04:21:53 (ZULU)

'lito,

Ain't Karma a bitch?

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Friday, May 18, 2007, at 04:43:53 (ZULU)

Lito,

Thanks for the heads up. I started to claen up my bench last week but made enough room to work and quit.

CDC,

I'm afraid to go to that link. I know it can not be good news. I hope our President as the guts to VETO it. Knowing full well that he will hand the Presidency to the Demo's with out a fight if he does. But doing the right thing is not easy.

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Friday, May 18, 2007, at 06:17:05 (ZULU)

`Lito said,

"We can NEVER assimilate this many people of a different culture...."

Seems to me we can`t hardly assimilate ANY immigrants lately, so no worries with these 12 Mil. + "new" ones, eh? I hate to be flip about it cause it pisses and scares the living shiite out of me, but that`s how I make it through my day. It`s all like a giant game show now. Every time I feel like this I need to buy ammo. Speaking of which, .223 & .308 surplus supplies have largly dried up. Any input hows come?

FYI, currently under test in my basement is a product I haven`t seen mentioned here (less I missed it) called Top Kote. Available at finer wood working stores, it`s made for cast iron and other metal tables and parts for wood working tools to prevent rust and corrosion. Spray on a light coat and let dry, repeat, buff if desired. Forms a somewhat milky, lubricitous, transluncent coating to seal out moisture. Seems to knock the high luster off shiny blueing just a tick. I have sprayed it on a H&R .22 bolt rifle (one application) that I keep in a metal jobsite box in an unheated basement (squirrel medicine) for over a year now. I used to have to wipe it down regularly to keep it from rusting. It seems to pretty much shrug off atmospheric moisture and finger prints. Since it is a lubricating substance, I tried to keep it out of the chamber area. I`m going to try it on my spare carry mags for the pistol next unless someone here can inform me otherwise. Don`t know if it should be used on the `spensive sticks but could be just the thing for that riffle that rides in your pickup day and night.

Next year I`ll work on world peace. Stay tuned.....

Steven Racer
somewhere in Dillsburg, PA, - Friday, May 18, 2007, at 06:42:40 (ZULU)

Click my name for the quick way to contact your Congressman and Senators. They'll get so many messages that a full letter would be a waste of your time. "No on Immigration Bill" in the subject line and two lines in the body will be plenty.

Email your friends the contact info. Now would be a good time.

Dirty Steve: You get a chance to observe the social pathologies present in the neighborhoods dominated by our unassimilated neighbors to the south. Tell us what's in store for the younger Hogs, our kids and our grandkids.

CDC'
Friday, May 18, 2007, at 10:00:21 (ZULU)

jc...

>"Ain't Karma a bitch?"<

Would you like some cheese with your whine?

Karma works for those that make wise decisions, and are man enough to stand with their decisions.

... and - I found the die, so I guess Karma ain't "a bitch" these days ;)))

And how's YOUR Karma doing?

I learned my lesson... I trashed my loading bench, and life is back to normal ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, May 18, 2007, at 12:36:23 (ZULU)

CDC -

Thanks for the easy links. I have e-mailed all of my representatives in Congress to voice my opposition to the immigratiobn bill. I urge every Hawg to do the same - and do it NOW!!!

ALAN
Friday, May 18, 2007, at 15:34:32 (ZULU)

Marc, go to either medical supply or big drug store. They make a wrap that holds it together. About 20.00 and works well. See you next week end

This whole who is who in the race world thing. We wont stop having race problems until we stop seperating ourselves based on race. I hear alot of folks who believe in the Almity says things like "Those people" It bothers me in that we are all those people. We all started from same two people. Enough of this.

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
Ca, - Friday, May 18, 2007, at 17:01:14 (ZULU)

Just checking in... still alive.

Dave King
Friday, May 18, 2007, at 17:53:39 (ZULU)

CDC,

Why do you think I am scared. Hell I work in those "hoods". I can not swing a dead cat with out hitting an illegal. They are for the most part unable to speach properly whether it is in Spanish or English. I can tell you the turds I deal with prefer Budwieser and believe insurance and Drivers Licenses are optional while driving. I stop them and I say how come you do not have a drivers license. They reply, "I don't drive." Well what the hell are you doing now? I was just going to a friends/store or what ever. So I take thier happy ass to jail. That is our policy here. Unlicensed drivers get a ride to jail. We also impound all uninsured motor vehicles. My favorite things to here are. "I just got off the car" I said what the hell were you doing on the car with it moving. "He was throwing bullets at me." I wrote my first two calls like that up as a disturbance before it dawned on me these folks ment he was shooting at me.

Well gunna to work now and toss a couple in the can. Or the Casa Grande as I tell them, when they ask where they are going.

Mike, It aint about race. It's about them coming illegally into the country then getting all sorts of benifits. I don't care where they come from. I want people to come to this country who want to be part of the country not just live off it's tit. I figure you have seen enough of it to know this and may have just come to accepted it. My Hispanic counter parts don't like it either. Officer Ramirez refers to the as them damn beaners. I had an old hispanic man want to know where he could donate money to the minute men. I was arresting his duaghter at the time. He was all for me throwing here in jail. He hated that "La Rasa" and Brown Pride crap. Carlos Mencia is right. It sucks to be a white guy in America.

Dirty Steve......... CDC, Oh I got curious and read it any way.

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Friday, May 18, 2007, at 18:15:38 (ZULU)

'Lito,

Every time Dan and I have a major cleanup in the barrelshop, we lose shit. We get this idea that if we put tools in a special drawer and label it, that we will remember where it is in the future. Nope, but sounded good at the time. The week after major cleanup we spend half our time looking for tools, gages, drawers with labels on them, etc... But when the benches are slightly cluttered, somehow we remember the last time we used the whatchamacallit, and find it easily. We call it organised mayhem.

Mike,

Ain't about race here. I'd just like to see these bastards, both immigrants and our government, take the personal responsibility to do it the right way, instead of beg for handouts. Hell, I'm an immigrant, but jumped thru 6 months of legal hoops and a few bucks to do so to gain a work permit, did it the right way..I couldn't even come over during that time of eval to find suitable residence, set up a bank account, check the area out, nothing. And the first thing they told me at the gate was no public funds are available to you, yankee, so pay our high taxes and don't complain, don't even think of welfare buddy...Free health care, ha!!! No, we'll take that out of your pay check too. Oh, and even though you can't collect, pay in that social security..Make your own way, and welcome to the UK, and don't forget every year or so we are going to reevaluate whether you deserve to be here, and ask you for more money for the service. I had to adapt to the culture, learn the language(English ain't the same here, trust me), and start all over on an absolute zero credit rating..I'm not complaining, knew that was the way it was gonna be, and how it should be. Why should the illegals get the benefit of the doubt in the states? Got nothing to do with race, to me..

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Friday, May 18, 2007, at 18:20:26 (ZULU)

Mike, it's like Dirty Steve said. I don't care what race someone is, it's about being here legally or illegally, and doing what is right versus what is wrong.

You know the size of the little 'burgh I live outside of. Last year there were 12 traffic fatalities in the area (not only the little 'burgh, but in the surrounding county as well) and 8 of them involved illegal aliens.

Personally I've got no use for welfare or government programs, but I understand the concept and sometimes people DO need a hand. People sometimes have 'bad times' hit them in the face (not necessarily through any fault of their own), and can use some support. I'm all for that - that's what I pay into it for. What I've got a problem with is when people DO NOT pay into the system, but use-use-use. We both know the only way that can happen though is by purposefully (and illegally) circumventing the laws of this country.

The person I know that is the absolute hardest case on illegal immigration is a buddy of mine I call 'the canook'. He was from Canada, before LEGALLY immigrating. He's an American citizen now (and has been for several years), and you ought to hear what kind of expensive, demanding hoops he had to go through over years to become a US citizen. His essential feelings are that if we're going to let Mexican Nationals just jump the border and become citizens by 'just because I'm here', then we ought to open it up to the rest of the world to do as well, and watch as what we've got here goes to the thrid world level faster than you can say 'we-come tu madonnas'.

Bravo
Friday, May 18, 2007, at 18:49:17 (ZULU)

Men, sorry I had not read what was going on board before posting. I should have said I was just venting frustration over something else. My bad. Criminlas are criminals in my eyes.

Undude/Mike

MikeMiller
Ca, - Friday, May 18, 2007, at 19:20:30 (ZULU)

Hawgs -

I just read a report on a new long range target camera system that has been undergoing field testing for over a year amd promises to be a great addition for a shooter like yours truly whose excursions out to the target a 1000 yards usually include crossing arroyos, small canyons, and creeks.

A fully self contained wireless camera/receiver system that will cost $999 for an 1100 yard version and $1499 for a version that is good for up to a 1 mile distance and will let you view even the smallest of bullet holes from the convenience of the firing line.

The shooter who's develpoed this system is G-T-G!

Click on my name and scroll down the Bulletin to the camera article.

ALAN
Friday, May 18, 2007, at 22:43:21 (ZULU)

Army Officer Named One of 'Time' Magazine's Most Influential People

May 17, 2007

BY Beth Reece

"Time" magazine put Capt. Timothy Gittins on its annual list of the world's most influential people this month. Capt. Gittins also received the General Douglas MacArthur Leadership Award in a Pentagon ceremony May 16. Currently commanding the 101st Airborne Division's Company C, 1st Squadron, 61st Cavalry Regiment, Capt. Gittins will report next month to Fort Benning, Ga., where he'll instruct budding leaders in the Captains Career Course. Photo by J.D. Leipold

28 Soldiers receive the General Douglas MacArthur Leadership Award.

WASHINGTON (Army News Service, May 18, 2007) - Among the ranks of Oprah Winfrey, Brad Pitt, the Pope, and even Osama bin Laden stands Army Ranger and combat veteran Captain Timothy Gittins.

"Time" magazine has put Capt. Gittins on its annual list of the world's most influential people this month. Appearing in the May 14 issue, Capt. Gittins is described as "An apt symbol of the heroism that the U.S.'s pair of lengthening wars have demanded of the roughly 1 million men and women who have fought them."

Joined on the list by only one other military member - General David Petraeus, commander of Multi National Forces in Iraq - the 31-year-old said he feels much like any other Soldier.

His leaders voted him into the elite General Douglas MacArthur Leadership Award alumni. The program recognizes company-grade officers who demonstrate General MacArthur's favored ideals of duty, honor and country.

"Tim is a prototype company commander for the war on terror. He's got all the tools of a great leader," said Major Bo Davenport, executive officer for the 101st Airborne Division's Company C, 1st Squadron, 61st Cavalry Regiment, at Fort Campbell, Ky. "His ability to direct the appropriate response, to move fire teams and get additional combat support is exceptional, especially under fire, and he's been there on more than one occasion."

While the recognition by "Time" is an honor, Capt. Gittins said the day before the May 16 Pentagon awards ceremony that it's the approval of his peers and leaders that he values most.

"Receiving the MacArthur award says your superiors believe you're doing all the right things," said Capt. Gittins, who was awarded the Bronze Star for valor for a two-hour battle with insurgents outside of Baghdad last year. He also has a Purple Heart for injuries he sustained fighting the Taliban during Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan in 2002.

Currently commanding Company C, 1st Squadron, 61st Cavalry Regiment, Capt. Gittins will report next month to Fort Benning, Ga., where he'll instruct budding leaders in the Captains Career Course.

"It's awesome; it's one of the highlight jobs as a captain because you're bringing the knowledge you gained through command - and, for me, through combat - to the next group of young company commanders right before they go take the guidon.

"You can have a big impact not only on those captains, but also on the Soldiers they will someday command," he said.

Capt. Gittins' call to leadership came two years after he started college, when an empty bank account sent him to the Reserve Officer Training Corps. As part of his Cadet Troop Leadership Training, Capt. Gittins went to the 1st Battalion, 506th Infantry Regiment, stationed along the Korean Demilitarized Zone.

"I was put in place as an infantry rifle platoon leader in charge of Soldiers, and I instantly knew that was what I wanted to do," he said. "I wanted to be an Airborne Ranger, leading troops."

"I love leading Soldiers, period. But leading Soldiers in combat is even more exhilarating. It's a responsibility that you can't just go home at night and be done with. You live it; your wife lives it," he said.

Taking charge of a company - he's had two now - tops Capt. Gittins' list of memorable Army moments. But his proudest point, he said, came days after the August 26 killing of one of his Soldiers by an explosively formed projectile.

"Less than 24 hours later we caught the guy, but my Soldiers exercised great restraint, knowing full well that he was the one who ordered the killing of one of their buddies," he said. "I was very proud of my Soldiers that day."

Raised on a farm in Iowa, Capt. Gittins is more comfortable in the trenches with his Soldiers than on the red carpet with celebrities and flashing cameras. He confessed to feeling tongue tied behind the mic at "Time" magazine's gala at the Time Warner Center in New York May 8, although he'd been seasoned by interviews with national reporters during his recent deployments.

"In Iraq we got comfortable talking with reporters. We knew there was a certain way we needed to respond, especially out forward," he said "But it felt more dangerous being on the red carpet and not having a chance to step back and think about what I'm saying."

Shelley Gittins said she rates her husband's leadership abilities a "10." "He's so dedicated to everything he does. To me, he's a hero because he says he does what he does so our kids don't have to," she said.

Of his newfound fame, Capt. Gittins said he's not letting it "get to him."

"You can't do this job alone; you can't take credit all by yourself," he said. "I want people to know that I appreciate what they've done to help me succeed."

sinister
Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 00:07:00 (ZULU)

It's official, orders in hand. I report in Baghdad 20 June.

sinister
Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 00:08:57 (ZULU)

Sinister,

Take care and stay safe. I will pray for your safe return as will the rest of the guys here I am sure will do also..

Dirty Steve.......

Dirty Steve
Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 01:26:07 (ZULU)

Sinister: Godspeed.

Dave King: Would that be Doc King?

CDC'
Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 02:20:53 (ZULU)

Sinister,

From an ex-sub sailor, be safe, come home in one piece.

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 02:47:44 (ZULU)

sinister,

Stay safe.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 05:00:34 (ZULU)

'lito,

My Karma is fine, as are my ethics.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 05:02:08 (ZULU)

Guys,

Re: Immigration - I hate how people assume you're racist when you comment on how your city is getting too crowded with immigrants and "hyphenated americans" who refuse to assimilate.

I bitch about having a hard time finding a job - in SKILLED trades, and people thinkan I'm a jerk for blaming mostly mexican immigrants. Ask any construction company owner- he'll tell ya, he can get a mexican to do the same job for 25% less! They're not taking just the "stoop labor" jobs, but roofing, bricklaying, excavation, drywall, painting etc.. The local minority run contractor ALWAYS gets the road contracts, and I've never heard of one of his drivers being pulled over and being legal. And now, the government wants to not only allow the illegals to stat, but bring their family over, too! Most of the kids that grew up like I did, in a rural environment can drive a truck, run equipment, roof, build a shed, and the like, but have trouble finding a job where they can make a living wage because of this.

As for the groups that insist on maintaining a seperate national identity, THEY are the problem, not those of us that don't feel we should have to press "1" for english when we make a call in America! I'm tired of having to be "sensitive" to them. I think we're being awful sensitive, as it is.

The only place I've EVER observed a large group of people from various ethnic backgrounds all getting along with no bullshit about it is in the military. That's the ONLY place I've ever been able to walk up to damn near anyone and get directions somewhere, are ask the time of day without having to deal with horseehit of one for or another. What is there about this particular model melting pot that makes this stuff "work"?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 07:14:28 (ZULU)

CDC...

Yeah - that bum is "Doc King".

jc...

Yeah sure.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 12:55:17 (ZULU)

Sinister: WY6 and come back on two feet.

Border issue....it's like watching "Red Dawn" in slow motion.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 13:57:38 (ZULU)

Doc King: I'm glad you stopped by. In April MarkS posted a marksmanship question. I posted six or eight replies. If you are of a mind, your comments would be appreciated.

Duman: Did you ever get a chance to watch the Gunsite shotgun video?

CDC'
Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 14:09:32 (ZULU)

Hey fellas. Just moved to Phoenix. Lots of places to shoot in the area it seems. Anyone have any advice on which are better than the other to help me narrow it down? I'd drive 40-50 miles if it meant less crowded conditions. Any advice would be appreciated.

John Bechtell
PHX, AZ, - Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 16:32:45 (ZULU)

Gents,

Sinister, be careful over there. We would like you back intact and vertical, please.

The Border: As far as I am concerned the politicians are doing nothing to stem the tide. They are doing everything to give the illusion that they are "doing something" about the problem. We have been sold out for power and greed.

Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 17:36:05 (ZULU)

Sinister

Take care..

CDC'

Yeah, as 'lito states.... it's me.

I'll root around and see if I can find that Marksmanship question from MarkS..

Dave King
Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 21:36:24 (ZULU)

Sinister: Be safe, May the Lord protect you.

All -- kinda off topic and long, but required reading:

Jay Leno wrote this; it's the Jay Leno we don't often see....

"The other day I was reading Newsweek magazine and came across some poll data I found rather hard to believe. It must be true given the source, right?

The Newsweek poll alleges that 67 percent of Americans are unhappy with the direction the country is headed and 69 percent of the country is unhappy with the performance of the president. In essence 2/3s of the citizenry just ain't happy and want a change.

So being the knuckle dragger I am, I started thinking, ''What we are so unhappy about?''

Is it that we have electricity and running water 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Is our unhappiness the result of having air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter? Could it be that 95.4 percent of these unhappy folks have a job? Maybe it is the ability to walk into a grocery store at any time and see more food in moments than Darfur has seen in the last year?

Maybe it is the ability to drive from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic Ocean without having to present identification papers as we move through each state? Or possibly the hundreds of clean and safe motels we would find along the way that can provide temporary shelter?

I guess having thousands of restaurants with varying cuisine from around the world is just not good enough. Or could it be that when we wreck our car, emergency workers show up and provide services to help all and even send a helicopter to take you to the hospital.

Perhaps you are one of the 70 percent of Americans who own a home. You may be upset with knowing that in the unfortunate case of a fire, a group of trained firefighters will appear in moments and use top notch equipment to extinguish the flames thus saving you, your family and your belongings.

Or if, while at home watching one of your many flat screen TVs, a burglar or prowler intrudes , an officer equipped with a gun and a bullet-proof vest will come to defend you and your family against attack or loss. This all in the backdrop of a neighborhood free of bombs or militias raping and pillaging the residents. Neighborhoods where 90 percent of teenagers own cell phones and computers.

How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms we enjoy that are the envy of everyone in the world? Maybe that is what has 67 percent of you folks unhappy.

Fact is, we are the largest group of ungrateful, spoiled brats the world has ever seen. No wonder the world loves the U.S. , yet has a great disdain for its citizens. They see us for what we are. The most blessed people in the world who do nothing but complain about what we don't have , and what we hate about the country instead of thanking the good Lord we live here.

I know, I know. What about the president who took us into war and has no plan to get us out? The president who has a measly 31 percent approval rating? Is this the same president who guided the nation in the dark days after 9/11? The president that cut taxes to bring an economy out of recession? Could this be the same guy who has been called every name in the book for succeeding in keeping all the spoiled u ungrateful brats safe from terrorist attacks?

The commander in chief of an all-volunteer army that is out there defending you and me? Did you hear how bad the President is on the news or talk show? Did this news affect you so much, make you so unhappy you couldn't take a look around for yourself and see all the good things and be glad?

Think about it......are you upset at the President because he actually caused you personal pain OR is it because the "Media" told you he was failing to kiss your sorry ungrateful behind every day.

Make no mistake about it. The troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have volunteered to serve, and in many cases may have died for your freedom. There is currently no draft in this country. They didn't have to go.

They are able to refuse to go and end up with either a ''general'' discharge, an ''other than honorable'' discharge or, worst case scenario, a ''dishonorable'' discharge after a few days in the brig.

So why then the flat-out discontentment in the minds of 69 percent of Americans? Say what you want but I blame it on the media. If it bleeds it leads and they specialize in bad news. Everybody will watch a car crash with blood and guts. How many will watch kids selling lemonade at the corner? The media knows this and media outlets are for-profit corporations. They offer what sells , and when criticized, try to defend their actions by "justifying" them in one way or another. Just ask why they tried to allow a murderer like O.J. Simpson to write a book about how he didn't kill his wife, but if he did he would have done it this way......Insane!

Stop buying the negativism you are fed everyday by the media. Shut off the TV, burn Newsweek, and use the New York Times for the bottom of your bird cage. Then start being grateful for all we have as a country. There is exponentially more good than bad.

We are among the most blessed people on Earth and should thank God several times a day, or at least be thankful and appreciative."

"With hurricanes, tornados, fires out of control, mud slides, flooding, severe thunderstorms tearing up the country from one end to another, and with the threat of bird flu and terrorist attacks, "Are we sure this is a good time to take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance?"

Jay Leno...."

Take care all --

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 21:57:18 (ZULU)

Ok Guys,

Information is out and entries are open for SniperQuest07 ! This is going to be fun. Information can be found at:

www.badlandstactical.net/SniperQuest07Information.htm

or click on my name.

Hope to see you there!

Bobby Whittington
Grandfield, Ok, USA - Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 23:03:39 (ZULU)

Ken:

It is easy for Jay Leno to be optimistic and happy when he is a wealthy guy who lives in a gated community.

The poll result was that 69% of the people didn't like where the country is headed. It didn't ask if we were living well.

The Titanic was doing well...until the iceberg.

The economy was doing well...until the scrash and the depression.

I guess according to Leno we shouldn't worry about our future until we no longer have BigMacs. Leno is another dolt who measures our success by what we have, forgetting that our children won't be left with the same country.

Hank
Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 23:08:57 (ZULU)

I've wanted to go shoot at Badlands for quite awhile now and I think this match will be the time. I just need a partner that I can count on to shoot better than me. Mike Miller? Joe Ducos?

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 06:33:07 (ZULU)

Just got back from turkey huntin...Only saw hens,and those are a dont touch for spring season.Come back w/an empty gamebag....Broke my 3 yr streak.

<"Also, Any thoughts on the DPMS AP4 LR-308? Is it just as prone to the same problems as the AR-10's recently discussed?">

Travis,

I own a DPMS Panther LR 308....as far as DPMS goes,pretty good stuff.

Great bunch of people.Any problem,just call them and they really try to fix the problem(S).

One issue to watch is the mags...There is an "old" and a "new" style.

The tabs on the front of the old mag that keep the follower in place need to be trimmed back and rounded on the corners.I just ordered another 19 rd mag and it looks identical to the "old" style mag so I cant say if the "old" stock is used up or not.

Knights SR 25 mags also work in the DPMS.

UnPat

UnPat
WI, USA - Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 10:54:20 (ZULU)

Sinister: Let's be careful out there, sir!

Wes wrote: "The Border: As far as I am concerned the politicians are doing nothing to stem the tide. They are doing everything to give the illusion that they are 'doing something' about the problem."

Exactly - that's what politicians do. To actually DO something about the problem would require the expenditure of resources. Politicians get re-elected by creating the appearance of GIVING stuff to their constituents, not by expending their tax dollars on intractable problems.

A deputy who works for a lawman of my acquaintance was tailing a suspected drug load down a highway in his border country. They have about 15 deputies to patrol 3300 square miles.

He found himself looking down the barrel of a tripod-mounted M2 .50-caliber machine gun in the back of the trailing Suburban. He decided to back off. Waaaaay off. Good decision.

They don't have the resources to cope with that level of activity, and there are no prospects that they'll get any.

We can secure the borders a lot better - but we lack the political will to do so. Actions - and inactions - have consequences, and we will find the consequences of that inaction to be increasingly serious.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 13:41:04 (ZULU)

Viva la Reconquista!

CDC'
Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 14:28:21 (ZULU)

Yesterday, I relented and let Dirty Steve chauffer me to the range. All is now well in DPMS AR10 land. The previous malfunctions involving the extractor ripping over the case rims seems to have been solved. I saw it as a timing problem and added a few grains of weight to the recoil buffer to retard the rearward movement of the bolt carrier. That seemed easier than adding gizmos to the bolt carrier, with the added benefit that nothing can ever come loose in the upper housing or fall into the trigger group. I can definitely hear and feel the difference in the buffer swooshing back and forth, and I didn't have a single failure to extract in over a hundred rounds. It was fun to use a mildot holdover and start ringing the gong at five hundred yards as fast as you could get back on target! Does anyone know of a dealer that actually has a 20" upper in stock? The 16" is fun, and has a very high LCCDI factor, but I just can't get the velocity I need for the boolit. I just got rid of some property, and, rather than spend the money on anything stupid like new tires or CV-joint boots for the truck, I'd rather get something beneficial like a new upper for the AR10. LMK.

Oh, it helped to use only LC or WCC cases. The one case that I found that had any rim damage whatsoever had a PMJ headstamp.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 14:41:02 (ZULU)

Did DPMS recently buy out ArmaLite or vice-versa?

I've never heard of a DPMS AR10!

Or would that be something like an LRB M1A? ;)

Just being sarcastic, but there IS a difference!

BTW Charles, I'm glad to hear that you've fixed the extraction problem. It certainly goes to show that there's more than one way to skin a cat, but be aware that there's no way that a carrier weight system can possibly fall out of the bolt carrier and drop down into the trigger group. Just an FYI :)

ALAN
Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 15:33:09 (ZULU)

Lindy...

>"He found himself looking down the barrel of a tripod-mounted M2 .50-caliber machine gun in the back of the trailing Suburban. He decided to back off. Waaaaay off. Good decision. They don't have the resources to cope with that level of activity, and there are no prospects that they'll get any.'"

Now, I might be waaaaaaay off base on this... but I wonder if it is possible that some of the politicians "might", in some little way, directly or indirectly, have some benefit from this drug traffic - like donations from "supporters", or more money flowing into their districts...

Naw, what could I have been thinking. Our politicians are way above that kind of stuff!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 15:58:31 (ZULU)

A good watch...

Some children are VERY lucky!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 17:16:45 (ZULU)

Lito,

Neat video. Thanks.

CDC', IIRC, I did view the Gunsite shotgun video. All those videos were of value, and I've since picked up a few. I really like the one by 'Awerbuck'. He's a smooth, no nonsense kind of guy.

Anyone thinking of tearing into the front end of a GMC 4WD pickup, be sure it's something you really want to do. I'm off to NAPA. Again...

Duman
Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 19:57:38 (ZULU)

One down, nine to go...

Saturday, May 19, 2007 8:58 p.m. EDT

McCain Goes Nuts Near Senate Floor

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. and Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, launched into a shouting match during a Thursday Capitol Hill meeting, where reportedly the presidential candidate dropped the "F..." word and more.

According to reports in the Washington Post and the New York Post, Cornyn apparently got the former POW’s attention when he raised the issue about the number of judicial appeals that illegal immigrants could receive.

In a meeting room just off the Senate floor, McCain opined that Cornyn was purposely raising petty objections to a compromise plan then being hammered out between Senate Republicans and Democrats and the White House.

"This is chickens--- stuff," McCain fired at Cornyn, according to the news reports. "You've always been against this bill, and you're just trying to derail it."

Not to be outdone, Cornyn accused McCain of being too occupied campaigning for president to take part in the negotiations.

"Wait a second here," Cornyn said to McCain. "I've been sitting in here for all of these negotiations and you just parachute in here on the last day. You're out of line."

"F--- you! I know more about this than anyone else in the room," McCain reportedly rejoined.

McCain, who has missed 42 votes this year, hasn't been intimately involved in the comprehensive immigration reform debate for months.

Reportedly, the shouting match was played out in front of a bipartisan group of senators and aides who had gathered in the meeting room.

Pundits suggest that the temper flare may reopen the can-of-worms that is McCain's "anger-management problem."

Brian Jones, a spokesman for the McCain campaign, acknowledged that a "spirited exchange" did take place.

"Negotiating such a large and important piece of legislation can be intense, and a spirited exchange did occur," Jones said. "[McCain] is somebody who feels very passionate about his work and about solving the problems facing the country."

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 21:44:52 (ZULU)

Alan. It says "DPMS" on the receiver. It's a .30 caliber rifle, patterned like the Armalite AR-15. All tissue is not Kleenex, but we call it "kleenex" just the same. Oh, BTW, look under the bolt carrier. There's a big gaping hole that things can fall into the lower trigger housing group through. But, thank you so much for correcting me.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, May 20, 2007, at 22:36:26 (ZULU)

Lito,

I love it when the Demos make an arce out of themselves. McCain my say he's a republican but he aint. He was Air Force but talks like a Sailor. I'm getting mixed signals. ;)

Dirty Steve.....

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Monday, May 21, 2007, at 01:46:32 (ZULU)

Any of youse guys tryed the speer gold dot "short barrel" ammo, I just ordered some. I expect less flash and more velocity. Else why bother?

4i's
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Monday, May 21, 2007, at 03:29:10 (ZULU)

Charles S. Hunt -

I was not trying to belittle you by posting what I did. If you've got an ego difficulty that will not allow you to accept an opposing point of view just say so. I'll gladly scroll past your mutterings to avoid hurting your feelings in the future.

The object of my post was not to correct you. I really hoped that I made that clear. Evidently I didn't succeed. If you believe that I singled you out just so I could correct you in print you must think way too highly of yourself. As a matter of fact, I really don't give a fuck what you do or what you think!

I posted what I did because -

You had already confused at least two people on the DR by attributing the problems that you were having with your DPMS .308 to the AR10 and that kind of inaccuracy tends to reflect badly on the site. I'm certainly not the site police, but when people post misleading statements on the DR they generally get corrected. It's happened to me in the past and I expect it will happen again, but I didn't get my skivvies wedged up my ass on account of it. That's the way it's been going on around here since before I arrived on the scene, and it's the way it should be! The AR10 and the DPMS .308 are two totally different firearms and should not be mistaken. Your Kleenex analogy is pure bullshit and you know it. You don't call a Mossberg 500 an 870 do ya? Nor do ya identify a Model 70 as an M700. WTF makes you think that ArmaLite and DPMS should be treated any differently?

And -

You've dreamed up an imaginary problem by declaring that parts of a carrier weight kit can drop through the bottom of the bolt carrier and get into the trigger mechanism. If you'd actually taken the time and made any effort to research it you'd soon see that this is physically impossible. The weights are just too damned big! But again, it's really not what you think that matters in this situation. What matters is your dissemination of inacurate information on this forum.

It's not about you, Charles. It's about what you post. Get it?

ALAN
Monday, May 21, 2007, at 05:11:32 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve: McCain was a Navy pilot. Alan: bite me.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, May 21, 2007, at 13:37:21 (ZULU)

Sheesh!

I leave for a six day prairie dog safari in 'yote-bait's AO and when I get home you guys are having another pie-fight. It's a shame you can't meet each other in person and settle this petty BS. I realize that sometimes feathers do get ruffled even tho there is no intent do that. Why don't you guys swap phone numbers and hash it out over the phone?

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Monday, May 21, 2007, at 15:41:27 (ZULU)

Doc: There's no pie fight. I was just commenting on having fixed a problem I was having, and some pedantic blowhard decides to take me to task for a semantic mistake. I figger I've paid enough dues to not get lectured. I told him to buzz off. Conversation over. Speaking of which, does anyone know of anywhere that has a DPMS 20" upper in stock? The 16" is not going to cut it. Usig ammo that works well at 1k is dropping WAAAAY too much at 5 and 6 out of the mini-tube. Any direction would be appreciated

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, May 21, 2007, at 18:29:13 (ZULU)

He's absolutely right Doc. There's no pie fight here!

I'm more than willing to make allowances for some disgruntled "public servant" with a piss-poor attitude towards those who pay his salary and who can't even correctly identify what he's shooting his mouth off about. I'm truly sorry that I even got involved in it from his initial whine about the subject. I really should have known better, considering the source.

Consider it closed!

The pedantic blowhard
Monday, May 21, 2007, at 19:12:58 (ZULU)

Charles,

You could try DPMS factory direct....1-800-578-3767

Not sure about order fill time.

Last I heard on complete rifle orders w/options was 8-12 weeks.

Curious to hear how a 20 shoots...

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 01:44:25 (ZULU)

Sinister, Stay Safe sir.

Charlie Hunt, What's new?

SniperQuest07, Glad this is on again. I am going to try and make it.

SFC Pete Carpentier Jr
C.C., TX, USA - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 04:08:03 (ZULU)

I bought a Lee hand priming tool because they're cheap. It started to have trouble seating them in completely even with the lever completely depressed. This happened more and more until it was each time which is a pain because the piece of brass gets stuck in the shell holder. I ordered another one, because they're cheap, and on the fourth primer it got one stuck in sideways. I thought it was just having trouble seating as the last one did so I pressed the hell out of it. I don't know how it didn't ignite. The exposed side is mashed flat and slightly squeezed out on two sides and the flashole is sealed off. Now I need to get the sucker out so I can have my shell holder back and continue using the tool.

How do I kill the primer so that I can punch it out safely? Should I squirt some WD-40 in there or would water alone do it?

Thanks fellas,

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 04:48:05 (ZULU)

MarcS...

>"How do I kill the primer so that I can punch it out safely? Should I squirt some WD-40 in there or would water alone do it?"<

It ain't that easy, Dude.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/killprimers.shtml

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 05:05:14 (ZULU)

Charles S. Hunt,

Call Pac-Nor and have them make you a new barrels for the AR.

Here's the link: http://www.pac-nor.com/ar/

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 05:06:45 (ZULU)

Thanks for the linkie 'Lito. I guess the good news is that it's a Fed 210M primer and the tester was able to kill each of them with a 24 hour test and some only required a few minutes.

I'm out of time here. I need to finish loading 160 rounds by Thursday for the match this weekend so I NEED THAT FUCKING SHELL HOLDER NOW!!! I think I'll soak it and then try to figure out a safe way to punch it while expecting it to pop.

I wonder if I should just buy the Sinclair priming tool now or go through 2 or 3 more of these and then buy the Sinclair after LOL.

Do any of you guys ever use the press to seat primers instead of a hand tool?

My friend had Pac Nor barrel and bed his 700 ADL action into a McMillan stock he got cheap from E-bay cuz it was ugly. It's a .223AI and it shoots the tiniest little groups I've ever seen. Makes ground squirrels and crows turn inside out too.

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 05:40:33 (ZULU)

MarcS- I'm a barbarian, all I use to seat primers is a loading press. A little practice and you'll develop feel as to when the primer is at bottom.

For a great many folks, a separate operation and gadget to seat primers is a waste. They can't shoot well enough to tell the difference. The tool folks sure aren't gonna tell you that-they want to sell you more tools!

WR Moore
Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 06:09:39 (ZULU)

Jc, thanks, I thought of that. What I'm really wanting is an entire upper receiver assembly so I can snap it on and off. I like the handiness of the 16", but the loss of range is a bit off-putting.

Why is it that public servants are always "disgruntled"? Can they be "gruntled"? I'd like to be "gruntled" a while, might be an excellent state of mind. I'll ponder that while I go clean my DPMS AR-10.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 06:18:22 (ZULU)

MarcS...

I've never owned a Lee hand priming tool (I never owned ANY Lee equipment - on purpose!)...

... but looking at the picture of it on Midway, it looks like the case and shell holder will come off of the tool together.

If so, just slip the shell holder with the case in it, into the press, and use a neck sizing die to push out the crooked primer.

It will not go off. Been there, done it, got the tee shirt.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 14:17:15 (ZULU)

Lee Primer - I have three, never had an issue with them, and I've got twenty thou or so loaded rounds. I don't have one in hand, but I think you can push down on the round plastic primer tray portion while holding the base rigid and it allows the shell holder to be slipped out of the tool.

Also...if you are using water as a primer killer, adding dish soap will massively increase the speed at which it neutralizes it...surfactant effect.

BTW - the ~$25 lee powder measure works extremely well...I now have three of them too. Most lee stuff is junk, but a few gems exist in the inventory.

medicjim
Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 15:24:56 (ZULU)

MarcS,

Primers are remarkably robust. I've done things that you ain't 'sposed to do, without any problems. However, I have eye and ear protection on, when attempting to un-stick live primers.

As far as hand-held primers, 'Lito had suggested one from K&M. Here's the link:

http://www.precisionreloading.com/KMProducts.htm

Buy cheap, buy twice. FYI, YMMV

Duman
Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 16:25:08 (ZULU)

UnPat, Thanks for the number! I'll get on the horn with them right away. Pete C.---If you're shooting the Sniperquest, I'm just gonna paint targets. I'm not shooting against you. Nope. Ain't gonna happen. I've seen how you dope wind. Any chance you being up this way around the first weekend of June? The gun show is gonna be at the Alzafar Shrine this month, as the Airport Convention center is being renovated, or sumthin'.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 17:06:59 (ZULU)

Primer seating>>>>>>> I use my Dillon 550 as it was made by the master Mike Dillon. I have had no problems and it mskes first rate ammo. Atleast as far as I can tell. 1 1/2" groups at 500 yards is about all I can expect. Most run 2" or so, I would rather spend my time shooting that worrying about seating depth. Has any one ever tested ammo loaded with a Sinclair tool and loaded on a Dillon and compared the results? Just wondering. I bet there is not a tinkerers bit of damn between them.

Oh it is my understanding that modern primers are harder to kill. Than the ones made twenty years ago. So where gloves and goggles and convince your nieghbor to do it. Ha.

Doc, How did the Prairie Poodle shoot go? I have been hankering to fly up to Wyoming and shoot some. I went looking for property up there last year and regreted not taking a gun. Of course I wouldn't have looked at nearly as much property if I had.

Pie Fights can be fun. One thing every one should be a where of is most of us cops are very thick skinned and we tend to think everyone else is too. A citizen once came on a ride with me and was amazed at how we spoke to each other. He told me why do you and that other officer have it in for each other? I replied, "That big goofy queer son-of-a-bitch? I have nothing against him, hell he's gunna meet us for dinner".

Dirty Steve...........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 17:34:19 (ZULU)

Hand-held priming tools can be convenient if you have a single stage press.

They allow you to prime bunches (hundreds to thousands) of cases while you watch Television...

But they don't offer any other advantages.

They are touted by that famous group that re-defined the concept of "Compulsive Anal Retentive".

Child psychologists believe that C.A.P. comes from early potty training problems. Individuals are worried that they are not doing their poopies with enough perfection to please mommy and daddy.

People with "C.A.P." spend their entire lives trying to retro-please mommy and daddy, by trying to do everything else with perfection... which there is never enough of!

Unfortunately, many shooters with this psychological problem have gotten involved with accuracy shooting, and have sought loading tools that will comply with the hidden needs that are consistent with underlying "C.A.P." problems.

One of these tools is the hand priming tool. They can be bought for the price of a good match barrel from Shilen. The hand priming tool is worshiped and stroked as the answer to "perfection" in priming (to make up for lack of perfection in poopies).

Paragraphs and pages are written about how you can seat primers with a "gentle, soft touch" (sounds like a Scott toilet paper ad).

But primers don't need a "gentle, soft touch", they just need to be seated to the bottom of the pocket.

"Pre-stressing" the pellet is sheer bullshit.

When the firing pin hits the primer @ eleventy eight feet per second... that pellet comes apart explosively in about 2/1,000,000s (two millionths) of a second, and exerts about 500 to 700 REAL pounds of force (NOT psi) on the case, trying to push it out the barrel (thank the rim or shoulder for stopping the case from being part of the projectile).

So no matter what they say, don't waste your time sandpapering the tips of your fingers like a safe cracker, so you can "feel the primer seat"... just seat the sucka to the bottom of the pocket, and get on with loading (or change the TV channel to a better movie).

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 17:39:40 (ZULU)

Lito,

Agreed. I only brought up the KM link as an example of a more robust primer tool. I can live without the dial indicator version.

It is, though, lacking fuzzy dice ......

Duman
Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 18:56:59 (ZULU)

Duman...

>"It is, though, lacking fuzzy dice ......"<

You made me laugh!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 19:00:23 (ZULU)

Patron Sinister: God be with you and your men, I almost feel sorry for the badguys. Almost.

Chuck, I don’t know where a 20” upper is for that DPMS is of yours, but since I caught this comment: “I've never heard of a DPMS AR10! Or would that be something like an LRB M1A? ;)” let me recommend a 22” upper…. On an LRB receiver. If LRB ever did make an M1A, it’d be a wide margin better than the Sproingfeld variety I’d wager! And yes, that’s just me poking fun at both the ratguns (ratgun: oversized mousegun, which I suppose is poking fun at mouseguns too!) and Sproingfeld.

I did something not long ago that really hurt my ego – I told someone to look into a ratgun and forgo the ’14 for his particular application. Sometimes facts hurt. But speaking of hurting (in this case the pocketbook) did anyone else notice that Ron Smith is now doing some nifty forged M14 parts? Between LRB and Smith, it appears we’ll have all-new M14 major components not too long from now. Gas cylinders and rear sight assemblies are out presently (improved, bolt stops as well), forged bolts are forthcoming. Oprods are slated after that.

Patron ‘Lito, what’s this lucky kids stuff? I was expecting a video of Paris Hilton ;-) I wonder if Gucci makes a purse that matches with a dayglow orange prison jumpsuit LOL!

Politicians? Well, I liked the comment on gun confiscation I read recently: "Hell, let's just start shooting the bastards. Let's get this crap over with while I'm still young enough to march in the victory parade down Pennsylvania Avenue." It does appear to me that people have been voting too much for ‘who can win’ and too little for ‘the best candidate’ or even ‘the candidate that best reflects their values and ideals’. Let’s hope we don’t eventually come to the same position on national sovereignty that the aforementioned guy came to on confiscation. Personally, I wouldn’t vote for mccain using someone else’s ballot (note: using someone else’s ballot is a trick many demopublicans use – oh, are you Mister Fuzzy McBarker?).

LEE priming tools: I have ‘em and use them (one set up for large primers, another set up for small primers), although I’ve never worn one out. If I’m doing serious priming, I’m doing it at the bench – on an RCBS bench-mounted auto-prime ‘cause it has multiple 100 primer tubes that I switch QED. The feel on that big lever (press DOWN to prime!) is tremendous – no question when you hit the bottom of the primer pocket, even if there’s a half-dozen loads worth of carbon build-up in the primer pocket. That having been said, I’ve primed thousands and thousands of rounds on the LEE units. Mostly pistol brass, while watching a movie ;-)

I did a study recently on Varget and my thrower, weighing 100 charges to the closest 0.0015 grains (yeah, really). The extreme spread ‘wasn’t pretty’. The Hodgdons rep told me to discard any charge that I detected kernel cutting and I’d see 1 or 2 tenths of a grain variation – but I haven’t tried that yet. IMO, there are better powders for use with a thrower, but I’d be more than interested to hear of anyone that has a KNOWN way of throwing Varget (or Varget-like powders) such that there’s minimal variation.

Oh, and BTW, I did get my opinion verified – H4895 is dimensionally identical to Varget.

Bravo
Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 19:04:28 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve,

We had a great time. The 700 mile drive is a killer for an old fart like me; but it's worth it. We drove out Tuesday, shot Wednesday thru Saturday, and drove home Sunday. Kansas has great highways with very little traffic and the southern route we take is really scenic. The Cimarron National Grassland is over 108,000 acres with elevations ranging from 3,150 to 3,700 feet. 'yote-bait does a great job of getting you to the best spots and that really helps. We would never have found some of the better spots without his help. This year was the best and we've been going out every year since 2001. If you want some more particulars hit me offline and I'll be glad to help.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The cloudy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 19:09:00 (ZULU)

Bravo,

I'd be interested in seeing the data for those loads. If you dumped it into a spreadsheet, could you send it my way?

Thx!

Duman
Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 19:22:28 (ZULU)

Charles...

More than welcome.

Pagin thru the DPMS catalog,I'm sure they'll send ya one w/ the order,I noticed a couple things...308 barrels arent offered in a 20 in version,but there is a 300 saum barrel in 20...so it shouldnt take them too much to do a couple things...cut down a 24in or take a blank for the 300 and chamber in 308...There is also a neat little new product called"The Reciever Rug" and basically this is an injection formed rubber gasket to lay over the trigger group to prevent blown primers and other debri from falling into said trigger group...

Back to barrells real quick,Order fill time is gonna depend alot on the "options"...Flutin,Cryo treatment,s/s bull,4130chrome,then there is the type of finish,teflon or phosphate...All I am sure they may have told ya...There were some people that went the full route and on a new complete rifle order it would take up to 8-12 weeks.Souldnt take so long to just get an upper....Those interested in the R/R rug...www.dpmsinc.com. also feel free to check out the "Trophy Room" or "Dead Animal" section...Last I saw,I was the only "Pat" listed.Nice Lil buck.

Unpat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Tuesday, May 22, 2007, at 19:42:35 (ZULU)

Click my name for Immigration Poll.

Just for clarification, what would be my best choice for an AR in .308? I'll be at least a couple months from buying, so feel free to suggest something that is not commonly available yet, but YOU have thoroughly tested. Would also like suggestions on a .223 AR. These will mostly be used for hunting coyotes out to around 500 yards. I might get another upper to use it for IPSC 3 gun, but I dunno. Would a mini-14 be better for IPSC?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 00:04:33 (ZULU)

Travis:

Unless they've changed, the Mini-14 is notorious for wandering zero as the barrel warms up. Not a good choice for IPSC 3-gun match with targets in excess of 50 yards. AR15 pattern in .223 Rem is the popular choice for IPSC 3-gun (for good reason).

I had a Mini-14, got tired of the wandering zero, sold it, bought an AR15 pattern rifle. Happy I did.

The AR15 pattern also has much more accessories available, easier to rebarrel, and easier to clean.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 01:31:26 (ZULU)

Fallkniven F1 is a fine little field knife. Tough, small enough to take along and holds an edge. I can recommend it. Click my name.

Pablo is correct that the Lee priming tool can be disassembled without removing crossed up primer from the primer pocket. Using the Lee tool is an aquired knack.

CDC'
Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 03:36:09 (ZULU)

IPSC 3 gun- we used the Mini as a service rifle for years. I don't recall any of them with a wandering zero, but I don't know what you're shooting at.

I'd also suggest going with an AR pattern for one major reason: timed reloads. The AR pattern is faster to speedload than a Mini-unless you're running assault courses where you can load on the move. A chrome lined barrel will also have a longer accuracy life than a plain steel barrel-that'll make a difference when you're doing rattle-battles. We got a graphic demonstration of this a few years back when we bought some brand X AR's with plain steel barrels.

Back in the dark ages, when there was still some practicality in IPSC, I used to design courses to have some basis in reality and therefore somewhat weapons system neutral. There were folks who hated me for this.

WR Moore
Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 04:01:42 (ZULU)

Travis,

Information on any AR,Make,Model,Caliber...You name it.If it has to do w/ an AR could be found at ar15.com....You dont have to be a member to read the posts or search threads and forums...Salt optional.

My own rifle is a DPMS Panther LR 308,the one with the 24 in S/S Bull barrel...Awesome critter killer.Only downfall to it is ...its a TANK compared to my Win Mod 70.By the time ya get a scope and good rings,full mag,your on the other side of 13 lbs...On really good days usin a range bag/rucksack for a rest I am gettin 1.5 in spreads 200 yrds...a bad day it opens up to 3in groups and this is with usin factory 150 gr soft point huntin ammo.I dont reload...yet.Some adj triggers dont fit the LR 308.I have a JP adj trigger in mine,Love it.Set at approx 3.5 lbs...If ya go w/ a DPMS,set a few bucks aside and do the trigger work...its really worth it.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 05:32:00 (ZULU)

Thanks for the priming advice guys. I got it out no problem. The shell holder comes out of the tool very easily and you know how if you've bought one before since they require assembly. My problem was getting the case out of the holder with the primer protruding out proud of the case head. I've heard this shell holder is different than the ones made for a press so I didn't even try to put it in the press. I just soaked it in water for five minutes, stood it up on a piece of wood and set my flashole deburring tool down inside through the mouth. I put on some leather gloves, wrapped it up in a towel, looked away, then popped the deburring tool handle with a light hammer tap.

That primer was completely distorted and mashed up. The compound inside had squeezed out a little bit and the anvil was no longer recognizable. I guess a slow mash doesn't have the same affect as the sharp and fast impact from a firing pin.

Then I got back to priming and finished 200 in about 15 minutes without a problem. This one works much better than the first one ever did so I think it will be fine. I still think I'm going to try doing it with the press though.

Powder throwing- I use a Redding and I forget if it's called a 3-BR or BR-30 but it's meant for rifle cases and I got a little pistol metering chamber with it. It throws within half a grain at worst with H4350 and Varget. I throw them low and then trickle up to target weight. I feel it hang up and cut through some granules on most throws but I have just been forcing it through and ignoring it. Is that wrong?

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 06:00:19 (ZULU)

There's no way to throw charges of extruded powders without cutting some of those itty bitty sticks. Wouldn't worry about it.

There was a comparative test of a number of powder measures in the American Rifleman some time back. The Lyman 55 was the most consistant throwing IMR 4895. From what's been said, I'd guess that means it'd be the most accurate of those measures tested with Varget too.

WR Moore
Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 07:09:36 (ZULU)

Guys,

Heard a couple of good ones today:

"Boy, you're like MacGuyver in reverse. You can ruin anything"

"A tool in my hand is worth two wherever I left them."

Unpat,

I know about AR15.com, but I'm interested in accuracy. Folks here will also tell ya if somethin's a POS, regardless of whether or not it's the flavor of the week. On the other site, I gotta wonder whether or not half of those guys ever get their shirt muddy when they shoot, much less their gun. Thanks for tryin' to help.

MarcS,

The RCBS powder thrower does the same thing. With some powders, I wonder if I'm not LITERALLY making powder out of my powder.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 08:07:51 (ZULU)

The ~$25 Lee powder measure doesn't cut long grain powders and is pretty darn accurate (it has some sort of soft wiper on the cutoff. It beat my RCBS by a long shot.

Sometimes, cheap doesn't mean junk.

medicjim
Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 15:06:51 (ZULU)

Good news guys My builder called and said HS has shippid my stock.So I hope in a few weeks it will be together.I think we are still waiting on the reamer.

Also has it been windy any place else for you guys.Its been about thirty MPH winds for bout three weeks now.

Jon Kujawa
Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 15:52:10 (ZULU)

Travis: Unpat's not kidding. The DPMS is awesome. Mine is a 16", not as long as his (don't even go there!) but it will drill raggedy holes at a hunnert all day long. And it shoots sub-MOA out to 500, which is as far as I've printed it, so far. It is a tad on the weighty side, but not so much more than a GAP with a Nightforce on it. Yes, sir, I do like my DPMS AR-10. Oh, Sorry! LR 308.....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 15:54:26 (ZULU)

medicjim,

"Sometimes, cheap doesn't mean junk."

You're right. Nuggets of information like yours are valuable, and appreciated.

In my experience, nearly every company has a gem or two in it's lineup. The 'halo' effect of bad products seems to overshadow those gems, to the point where I won't even look at many products a company makes. Just my experience. Counter examples are always welcome.

Duman
Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 16:11:14 (ZULU)

Q: Have any of youz had surgery on your hands/fingers? I tore a tendon, in my finger, while catching a football. Finger won't straighten out anymore. Any advice or experience?

Duman
Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 19:03:55 (ZULU)

Duman, that's a bit of 'spin' on what happened, eh? Why not just tell everyone that the football hit you in the nose and be done with it?

I guess you didn't get the message I left on your phone ;-)

Thanks for the info on throwers! I'm going to do this lot the 'hard way' 'cause I'm under the gun..... but the next batch is going to be better one way or the other.

Dang, if I'd known about the LEE, I would have put that on the last order.

ETA: I just looked up the LEE measure on their website. Should I assume you're talking about the 'perfect' one, or the 'disk' model? I'm inclined to assume the former, but don't wanna try both LOL!

Bravo
Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 19:17:25 (ZULU)

Bravo - the perfect measure

medicjim
Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 20:09:22 (ZULU)

Duman: Soak it in cider ...

brian k. sain
Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 21:07:57 (ZULU)

Bravo:

I'm using the Lee Perfect powder measure too. The powder contact part is an elastomer so it doesn't try to cut the granules. I've been happy with it so far. I put a lot of Varget thru it.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 02:00:55 (ZULU)

Duman,

Try Maiden Oil....Cider is for quenching thirst.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 05:22:45 (ZULU)

The Western L66 knife is pretty good too. Every time I went home, my brother or sister stole mine. Chrome vanadium steel so it will stain, but I've never had one rust on me. It's the right size and they run about $45.00. Definately non-military if that's an issue.

Trajan Aurelius
East Bay, CA, USA!! - Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 05:52:03 (ZULU)

For the $$ Westerns are good. I've owned, used and abused several. Bravo saw one that I modified using Bagwell's recipe.

Fallkniven, Busse and Swamprat are a whole different deal. Click my name.

CDC'
Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 06:09:43 (ZULU)

Chuck,

Just fondled both of them today. Tink I'll go with the short one. At least until my gunbearer hits puberty and muscles up! The LR is damn heavy, for offhans shooting, anyway.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 09:12:16 (ZULU)

CDC,

I'm with you on the Fallkniven, I've got a D2 steel chef's knife and it has been excellent.

medicjim
Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 12:17:46 (ZULU)

Brian didn't spell 'in cider' correctly... It's 'insideher...'

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 12:52:43 (ZULU)

Travis, yes, it is a bit on the weighty side. but it cuts down on recoil, and we always used to put weights in our AR's for NM offhand shooting, anyway. Well, off the the range. I put a Yankee Hill skeletonized forarm on the AR15 last night, and I had to take the front BUIS off the gas block and put it up on the forarm. The forarm is skewed a degree or so counterclockwise from the gas block, so the irons are a bit off from the Aimpoint. Rats, that means I'm gonna have to take a day off from work and go shoot.....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 14:40:14 (ZULU)

Dunman,

If your finger joint flexes it should just be a matter of rehab. Stretch your finger out straight and then pull back toward the back of your hand. Of course it will not go far but you just need the tension on the affected tendons. This should help lengthen the tendons. It should take a few weeks of doing this several times a day to show improvement. I had surgery on my left hand about 10 years ago and this type of exercising helped. My problem was I could not bend my middle finger in to the plam of my hand. I hand to have the finger pinned back together. It was split length wise. So the Doc had me flex the joint and hold it release and begin again. DISCLIAMER:I am no Doctor so please consult your doctor prior to any exercise routine. Medic Jim/Sarge and thoughts?

Dirty Steve.....

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 15:43:21 (ZULU)

Thanks for the info re: stretched fingers. Doc told me to keep it in splint for 8-weeks, then take a look-see if further action required. On a positive note, the nurse was serious earth-muffin.... :-)

CDC' - I've been looking at Swamp Rat knives since you first mentioned them (~1-2 years ago). Nice tool, excellent steel, and a lot of pride taken in manufacture. Definitely on my list.

Bravo - yeah, i got your message. Then a couple hours later, someone called looking for "Mike Hunt". I was a little slow, I thought it was you on the line, pulling a prank. Probably some juveniles with nothing better to do.

Duman
Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 16:10:29 (ZULU)

OK, I've got a REALLY SERIOUS question / request for help here. REALLY. It appears that a pretty lady is in need of some ammo for a Badlands course coming up fast. She's got an SCLE stick, with an M3 turret set for the 175 SMK at 2625 fps (Kenton). What I need from you smart fellows with SCLE sticks, is a recipie that I can whip together and UPS some of those little 50 round MTM boxes out there. I've got enough Winchester primed Lapua brass that I can do it - Varget and 175 SMKs are 'in abundance' at my place. But what kind of a charge and COAL would be ideal for that stick to hit that velocity? Well, that looks like a chunk of my 3-day weekend (GRIN).

On the measures, thanks guys! I've got a LEE measure incoming. The website says it'll be here Monday, but we all know better than that.

On knives, I've been keeping my eye on scrapyard - the spinoff of Swamprat, which is a spinoff of Busse. The #1 problem I've got with SRKW or Scrapyard either one is that when I've got the bucks (HA!) they never seem to have anything in stock.

Duman, if you can't tell the difference between me and juveniles with nothing better to do...... I must be doing something right LOL! Hope you get to feeling better soon! If you want to hang out a while on the e-mail addy, I'll do the same Varget study with the new LEE thrower and add that in the spreadsheet too.

Oh yeah.... I could sure use a 'read-up' on the old Mildot Master, if someone wouldn't mind e-mailing me a copy. My copy was hors de combat in the divorce (my MM lived in my left hand mag pouch, so I've still got it). Not that I figure I'm missing much, but it's been a while since I tried to do much of this stuff 'under pressure' and figured it'd be good as a refresher. I sure do miss Bruce. Can't bring myself to take his phone number out of the cell either, brings me good memories every time I roll over it.

Bravo
Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 19:13:56 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Load that works well for me using both 168 and 175's is 44.0 grains of Varget. OAL 2.80. I use that load in 5 different rifles that we load for here and they all shoot it well. Hope this helps!

Bobby Whittington
Grandfield, Ok, USA - Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 19:54:08 (ZULU)

Bravo, What Bobby said! I'm a little partical to the 175's, but use that exact same load.

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 20:07:26 (ZULU)

Bravo

The 30-06 cam that comes with the M3LR scope seems to track pretty close to the 44gr varget over 175 sierra pill in a 24" rifle like a SCLE. Velocity should be closer to 2700 than 2600 with that load.

medicjim
Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 20:19:13 (ZULU)

Thanks guys!

I'll set the scale at 44.0, and turn the seater in another 20 thou. Gonna crank out 7 of those little boxes for her, hopefully that'll be enough for the course, getting zeroed, and at least some preliminary doping.

The reason I asked is 'cause I figured that my sticks prefer different than the SCLE would. I've been using 2.0 grains more (and yes, 46.0 grains of Varget does seem to fill a casing! HA!), seated to a touch farther out, for an average velocity of 2684 fps - my target was 2685 ;-)

I figured that 2" of extra barrel might make my loads a bit 'tough' if I'd just sent a double stack of mine out there to split.

Bravo
Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 21:08:56 (ZULU)

Bravo,

I know I am chiming in a bit late but .. A 175 SRA-MK on top of 43.5 Varget gives me 2650 out of my GA rifle.

Dirty Steve.........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 21:44:59 (ZULU)

Bravo, e-mail inbound off Roster, no attachments.

'Lito you get my last e-mail?

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Thursday, May 24, 2007, at 22:33:09 (ZULU)

Bravo, here is a load that wont track that BDC but will out shoot it. 46.5 grains of Varget with 155 Lapua Scenar loaded to 2.82 OAL, In Lapua Case. Best 308 round I have found for flight. Takes around 28-30 MOA to get from 100-1000 yards (Depending on bbl) and fighst wind better than a 175. Less recoil also.

Undude/Mike

MikeMiller
Ca, - Friday, May 25, 2007, at 00:32:12 (ZULU)

Sarge...

Mary has always teased me about my fascination with Groom Lake... I watch all the documentaries and specials.

She came in tonight and said, "They are here... the POD people are lookin' for you. Start up your saucer ;)".

I'm packin' it up this weekend for you.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, May 25, 2007, at 01:28:15 (ZULU)

For the worst of two worlds...

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1448901/page/1#Post1448901

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, May 25, 2007, at 01:57:13 (ZULU)

Lito.... my eyes.... MY EYES !!!

What horror.....er.... whorer....

Duman
Friday, May 25, 2007, at 03:25:14 (ZULU)

Bravo- It's probably too late for this but my SCLE rifle has a very short throat. Federal GMM with 168's mashes into the lands so much that I feel resistance on the entire downward stroke of the bolt. I tried to extract one without firing it once, and the bullet stuck inside. Powder dumped out all over the place and made for a real treat. Black Hills never gave me this problem. I've never discussed this with other SCLE owners so I'm not aware if it's common. I'm sorry I don't remember what my seating depth is but I can check it out tomorrow if you'd like.

Pretty with fine taste in rifles too eh? It sounds like she would be a good one to meet.

CDC- That F1 looked like the perfect knife to me. Shaped similar to my Buck Vanguard but probably doesn't need to be shapened twice on one pig. I have two Randall's that are beautiful but I don't want to use them. They are as new and have never been sharpened so I think they'll be up for sale soon. I can't believe what people will pay for them now.

I'm trying to find some sketches of mirage and how to read it that came from an Army manual IIRC. I heard it was available on the net somewhere but I can't find it. If any of you could help point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Friday, May 25, 2007, at 04:44:42 (ZULU)

MarcS,

I think everybody's SCLE was short-throated. Mine started blowing primers on break-in. That was with Federal 168 grn GMM.

Took a throating reamer to it and it shoots great with 175 and 190 SMK's.

UnDude,

Was trying 155 Scenars this past Monday with 46 grains of RL15. Accuracy sucked. And based on the comeup for 600 I was getting some serious velocity, well over 3000fps. Just couldn't get 'em to group.

What twist barrel are you shooting 'em out of and what velocity?

Thanks,

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Friday, May 25, 2007, at 05:51:01 (ZULU)

'Lito

Ya keep flashin that pic and ya might have to change your name to "Cat Raiser"...Cause thats the only way your gonna find kitties to shoot.Hell,even my dog even got up and left the room once that pic loaded up.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Friday, May 25, 2007, at 09:51:33 (ZULU)

For those of you who don't want to pay for a Busse but still want primo blades, there is "Ranger Knives". Click my name.

CDC'
Friday, May 25, 2007, at 12:49:38 (ZULU)

"Bark River" is also very good. You can shop around and get a deal on these. They made the knife I carry while hunting.

CDC'
Friday, May 25, 2007, at 12:54:54 (ZULU)

Ordered a Graham knife and have been really pleased with it.

I wanted a small fixed blade for SOB carry as I trail ride. You can specify the steel, handle, and finishing details. They have several sheath options too.

Had to wait about 5 months for it but I got a very stout and very sharp little knife. Would have the Graham's make me another.

Mine is a traditional drop point but they have a design that is part knife part chisel - called a Razzel. Interesting concept for a utility knife. Can be ordered sharp on two or three sides. In the larger sizes -would be a nice knife for military field use.

Josh is a very good person to deal with. He is responsive and helpful.

http://www.grahamknives.com/

Presently however they are backlogged and are not taking custom orders.

LTChip
Old Hangtown, CA, - Friday, May 25, 2007, at 17:08:30 (ZULU)

I've found the 155 scenars to be somewhat sensitive to jump... you want to load them close to the lands to get super tight groups. I've also noticed that pushing them to the limit seems to open up groups on two of my rifles. The load my partner used at ASC this year was 45.6 grains of varget, CCI primer, Laupa brass... set around 5 thou off the lands. He sees pretty darn good accuracy and the drop tracks the 300 Win mag (190 gr sierra) cam on his M3LR pretty well. He actually shoots a bit high at closer ranges

medicjim
Friday, May 25, 2007, at 18:14:07 (ZULU)

Anyone know of any gifts that are traditional for Pakistani weddings? My dentist's daughter (my friend) is marrying a guy from over there, and I was thinking about doing something like that for their wedding.

...........and no, 'Lito, I'm not giving him a goat and some lingerie for it! ;0P

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, May 25, 2007, at 18:49:37 (ZULU)

A Biiiiiiig Piiiiig:

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070525/480/a380d39070604b3a99b8346b8522a57c;_ylt=AgffQLqTrC2iy7n9pfVllQ0uQE4F

Barbecue anyone??

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, May 25, 2007, at 23:03:05 (ZULU)

Well, it's that time again when Texas is about to turn into the place about which Phil Sheridan said, "If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell."

We just had 2 inches of rain yesterday, with more predicted over the next few days, which is the precursor to a mongo mosquito hatch. By this time next week, the skeeters will be big enough to stand flatfooted and have sex with the wild turkeys.

My wife and I are headed for the high country above 8,000 feet where the air is cool and the hiking trails uncrowded. We'll be back in the fall, barring improbable events.

I hope everyone has a great summer, without hurricanes, even if my boss wants to shoot in one to see what the wind effect on the bullet would be.

Lindy
On The Road, RV-nomadic, U.S.A. - Saturday, May 26, 2007, at 15:20:31 (ZULU)

Lindy, I have only been here since March 05. I never seen it so green. I have been busy on the front short ranges the last three weeks. I went to check on my back range last week and it had sunflowers over my head. Our boys are staying busy just trying to keep the growth short near the driving tracks. I love it skeeters and all. We hadda wet down in bug juice during the night shoots last week. Good for character. :)

I have been seeing a lot more turkeys this year. That draught sucked.

Hope your doing fine brother.

Semper Fi,

Finger

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Saturday, May 26, 2007, at 15:50:18 (ZULU)

Jim: I've been in Tejas since 1985, and I can't remember it this green, either. If this is what Global Warming is all about, I'm for it! Since I decimated the cedar on the property, the rest of the trees have some water, and are taking off. I actually have grass, now! Crap, that means I'm gonna hafta buy a lawnmower. Or a goat. I had a small stream running through the back yard yesterday. Youngest daughter is bringing her new boyfriend up today for a BBQ. Looks like I'm gonna be a granddad, again. Somewhere along the line, I developed the quaint notion that one was supposed to get married before one started having babies. Silly me. Don't ever, EVER, ask God for patience. He has a rather unique way of installing it in you.....Ran into a killer deal on a brand, spanking new Remington PSS yesterday. I've heard spotty reports of Rem QC the last few years, but I was impressed with the ones I saw in that last class, so I took a chance. Off to the range to break it in and see what it will do. It'll have to do well to outshoot the Howa.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Saturday, May 26, 2007, at 16:52:20 (ZULU)

Yesterday we got three inches of rain with a 50% chance of more through out the week end. So I canceled a big BBQ I had planned (2 Briskets, 20 chicken breasts, Two packages of chicken thighs, and a bunch O sausages) Naturally it has only dizzled once since then. What the heck over?

I have seen some turkey on my back 40 since it decided to green up. Well turkey tracks by the stock tank. And a big hog been wondering around the place.

Chuck, Thanks for the call about going to the range!

Dirty Steve...........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Saturday, May 26, 2007, at 21:08:45 (ZULU)

Steve, I was only going to the one up here by the house, it's only a hundred yard range. I needed to break in the bbl on the new riffle and see how it grouped. Man, they set the triggers at about 37 lbs at the factory! The literature says it's crisp as "a glass rod breaking". Yeah. A 3" thick glass rod. But it did shoot well, best group after shoot in was .59". I'm having issues, again, with the Badger 20 moa base. It was right on on the Howa, but I had to come up 15 min on the Remington, and it's supposed to be for a Remmy short action. Now, I've only got 31 moa elevation available, and that's not gonna get me to 1K with the loads I'm shooting. Back to the drawing board.....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Saturday, May 26, 2007, at 22:33:43 (ZULU)

Re: Tracking Terrorism

This is an interesting map.

http://www.globalincidentmap.com/home.php

(or click my name)

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, May 26, 2007, at 23:19:36 (ZULU)

Simple question, I've got a set of Badger MAX-50s ordered to mount a 30mm tube onto a Savage FP-10 Choate in .308 cal. Badger web says to torque the ring screws to 12 in./lbs. Here's the problem, my micrometer torque wrench goes from 20 to 150 in./lbs. so that's out but I've got a T-Handle t-15 that's set at 15 in./lbs. Now here's the big question, since the Torx screws in the Warne rings are the same size as the ones in the Badger rings and Warne torque specs. say to torque theres to 15 in./lbs. would it really be a problem if the Badgers get torqued to 15 instead of 12 in./lbs. I really don't want to screw up the badgers but if I use the T-Handle at least I'd know that all 6 screws were torqued pretty much the same. If this really would be a problem then where can I find a T-Handle that's set at 12 in./lbs. Any info would really be appreciated here, thanks. holeshot

Daniel Hallman
Abilene, Texas, U.S.A. - Sunday, May 27, 2007, at 00:03:23 (ZULU)

Daniel,

Shouldn't be a problem.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Sunday, May 27, 2007, at 04:58:15 (ZULU)

For you LEO guys. I know we've had our differences, and you've probably already seen this video, but it cracks me up EVERY time. Everyone please be safe this weekend.

Click my name for video

P.S.- I'm in the Holster business now, mostly single action type stuff. E-mail me for pics. No site yet.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, May 27, 2007, at 09:43:31 (ZULU)

Very Good Read on Opticals.

http://www.optics4birding.com/basics1.aspx

Just ignore the Birds ! LOL

Regards,

Joisey

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, US of Ah - Sunday, May 27, 2007, at 21:59:09 (ZULU)

Bravo had newer knife info that I did. At this "Scrapyard knives" link is something called the "Street Scrapper 4", which is made of the remarkable "infi" steel. Infi was used only in Busse knives. Busses cost major $$$. The SS4 costs much less.

Hey, if you have $140 laying around for a 4" knife that WILL NOT let you down...

CDC'
Monday, May 28, 2007, at 06:30:06 (ZULU)

Speaking of bulletproof gear, "Windmill" lighters seem to be as dependable as Casio G-Shock watches. Click my name.

Orange would seem to be the obvious color.

CDC'
Monday, May 28, 2007, at 06:41:37 (ZULU)

CDC...

Can you re-fill those orange things?

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, May 28, 2007, at 12:07:59 (ZULU)

If you guys want to have your eyes checked go here.

www.MensHealth.com+Eyechart Then click on Mens Health.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Monday, May 28, 2007, at 12:43:10 (ZULU)

Don't use the large case letters in the address, don't know what i was thinking about.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Monday, May 28, 2007, at 12:52:00 (ZULU)

Pablo: "Can you re-fill those orange things?"

Yep.

CDC'
Monday, May 28, 2007, at 13:15:00 (ZULU)

JC, sorry for not seeing this before. Scenars I run are almost to lands. I am starting to work with them out of mag length. I know GA George has had great luck with them. I am switching powders from Varget to H4895SC to get velocity up. With a 1x12 twist I need over 2900 to keep shooting well at thta twist past 900 and with 1x11.25 I need 2850 fps for good results at 1000 yards.

Mike/Undude

MikeMiller
Ca, - Monday, May 28, 2007, at 19:08:44 (ZULU)

What ever happened to John Leveron???

I haven't seen him here in a hellova long time.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, May 28, 2007, at 21:37:38 (ZULU)

Gents,

Bravo, the load we've had the most success with is a 175 gr. SMK over 44.0 gr of Varget. I use Lapua Brass and Fed 210M primers. This give about 2,640 FPS from my 26" tube. Recently loaded the same load into Winchester Cases using Winchester LR primers. Again, velocity was about 2,640 FPS. That load has been the most consistent load/powder/bullet combination I have ever used in the .308.

Whereinthehell did you find a lady that shoots .308?

Undude, I'm going to have to try your recipe for 155 gr. Scenars...

Thanks to all who have served and are serving our country this Memorial Day.

My best to all.

Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 03:00:20 (ZULU)

UnDude,

I used a max charge of H4895SC to get 2950 fps. It was a damn good load. Shot really flat. I just hated ordering bullets all the time. I could get the 175 any where so I stuck with that. I guess I should have ordered them by the thousand and not just 500 at a time. Hey. I'm rambling...

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 03:16:06 (ZULU)

http://members.iinet.net.au/~pontipak/redsquare.html

Here's a computerized training tool train your reaction time. Or just have fun.

Trajan Aurelius
East Bay, CA, USA!! - Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 04:05:44 (ZULU)

Ken M: I posted a reply to your 7m&m bullet question.

CDC'
Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 04:13:27 (ZULU)

Travis,

I'm no lawyer, but I think the individual approaching the LEO committed 'assault', per the legal definition. Refer to:

http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/22542B6F-FEDB-450A-889A82A49EA50CEB

Duman
Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 04:45:56 (ZULU)

Well we had a great shoot out here in Sacramento this weekend. Two days of nice weather and lots of trigger time on steel, clay pigeons and paper. Mike Miller donated slings and shot the match. I was just a few lanes away from him throughout the shoot and he helped me with good advice a few times. I guess that's why I was able to finish ahead of him by just 5 points. Wouldn't have happened if his knees worked though. Lots of movement, transitions and one stage with a sprint. I don't know how he forced his way through it all.

I learned alot and most of all I learned that I need to pay attention to the little details more closely. I had my head up my ass on the very last stage and dumped 8 easy shots for 10 points each because I didn't return my scope to zero after the previous stage. Then first place beat me by exactly 10 points and took home a brand new USO SN-3 scope. One shot. Just one shot. That freakin' hurt.

It's ok though everyone there made mental errors of some kind and the guy who won was the guy who made the least and shot the most consistently. For third place I got a 50% off certificate towards the retail cost of a new Nightforce of my choosing and I'm happy about that.

It was such a big hit that they're already making plans for next year so you guys should try and make it. It will be in August so I'd expect temps between 90 and 100 with some nasty shifting winds.

I'm seriously considering selling every gun I own right now to build exactly what I want in one perfect rifle/scope with all the accessories and all brand new. I'll think about it after my hernia surgery in a couple weeks.

Cheers,

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 06:07:26 (ZULU)

MarcS...

>"I'm seriously considering selling every gun I own right now to build exactly what I want in one perfect rifle/scope with all the accessories and all brand new."<

Sell guns if they are POS's, but don't sell guns to buy new guns... There is no "One perfect rifle/scope".

You will hate yourself later... I promise you.

Get a second job to finance your project.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 10:10:45 (ZULU)

MarkS: "Then first place beat me by exactly 10 points and took home a brand new USO SN-3 scope. One shot. Just one shot. That freakin' hurt."

I have quite a collection of "coulda, woulda, shoulda" stories. The ones that I still kick myself for involve elk or women. Especially women.

Man,...I don't even want to think about it.

About 30 years ago I swapped all my guns for the "Perfect Rifle". It was a mistake.

CDC'
Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 12:57:48 (ZULU)

What CDC said...

... don't swap guns, swap women!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 13:06:58 (ZULU)

... don't swap guns, swap women!

This is an idea that has real promise. Where could we find a venue and what would we call it.. ?????

Went looking for a copy of Hunting the Dangerous Game of Africa by John Kingsley-Heath. Couldn't find it anywhere-bleeping Amazon included. If anyone knows where I might find a copy, or runs across one, please let me know.

WR Moore
Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 13:44:22 (ZULU)

Mr Moore... a little 'google fu' for you...try structuring your search in the following manner

rare books Kingsley-Heath Hunting the Dangerous Game of Africa

medicjim
Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 14:46:18 (ZULU)

WR Moore,

kingsley-heath book:

http://www.booktrail.com/Hunting_Africa/Hunting%20The%20Dangerous%20Game%20of%20Africa.asp

There's another site called trophyroom.com I think, which carries some of these type books.

Google-fu:

Type in kingsley heath book hunting..

JR
Langholm, Dumfriesshire, Scotland United Kingdom - Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 18:36:58 (ZULU)

Thank you gentlemen, I don't actually qualify as Urban Amish*, but I'm real close on the finer things of computer stuff.

*Come to think of it, I DO qualify.

WR Moore
Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 18:58:57 (ZULU)

Duman,

I don't need to look it up. That dipshit deserved what he got. And his buddy needed a whippin', too. The first ammendment sometimes covers stuff it shouldn't, but that's a bad can of worms to open. Kinda like giving up one type of guns, but not the other. If we give up one, why NOT the other? Because it's our RIGHT to have it.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, May 29, 2007, at 20:01:57 (ZULU)

Duman,

I dont know what state they were in, or what their laws are, but here the charge would be menacing, and most likely an asswhipping too. I laughed my ass off. Sheesh, these guys really are oxygen thieves. Maybe they were filming a segment of jackasses.

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Wednesday, May 30, 2007, at 04:11:15 (ZULU)

You guys are right I'm not selling any guns. Sorry for the whining and feeling sorry for myself about losing that was ridiculous. Everybody has their coulda shoulda woulda stories and nobody wants to hear mine. Over it.

Now I really understand the importance of giving each and every single shot of the match all of the attention, focus and stress it would get if it were the only shot of the match. It's never over until the last shot is fired. Forget the previous shot good or bad, and prepare to shoot "the next match" right up through the very last shot of the match. This is key.

I also learned to quit bullshitting with the guys on the neighboring lanes and stick to my own routine of managing all of my pieces of gear/ammo and my scope. So between stages I focus intensely on the prep for the next stage, and during the stage I focus on the individual shot with all of the mental checklists we discussed last month. Mental errors come only from laziness and lack of attention to detail. Inexcusable.

I'm happy as hell about taking third at my first big match and the two guys above me deserved what they got. All is well for now I'm just going to have to beat the living shit out of them all next time ;)

Speaking of swapping women... For the two hour drive home I kept thinking about how I need to start spending more vacation time and money on travelling to more shoots. I need to go out of state and compete against all the best in the nation and so on. I'm thinking about how I'm going to tell her all of this since she's been giving me shit about shooting every weekend and dry firing, reloading or surfing the gun forums every night. I'm not home for ten minutes and she starts in on me with her fussing about this very subject. Really bad timing man it didn't go over too well with me. I think she may be down the road soon. Then I'll really get some good, distraction free training time LOL.

Our Sac long range monthly tac match this Sunday, then my hernia surgery on Wednesday and another big two day event with big prizes down in Riverside exactly 4 weeks later. I don't care if I'm leaving a freakin' blood trail along the course I'm shootn' that sumbitch.

Loved the vid of the asshole getting a good beat down from that cop. Made me laugh so hard I had to push in on my hernia. Classic.

'night fellas,

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Wednesday, May 30, 2007, at 05:35:32 (ZULU)

MarcS,

Congrats on your placing third. There are perfect guns. A perfect Tactical gun, Varmint gun, elk gun and such. Just finish one project gun before proceeding to the next. I have traveled down the road of multiple projects ad it is not a pretty site. If you aint bound by marriage license. I would put that relationship on hold. Both women and men don't change for the better once married. My wife doesn't mind me shooting. In fact before we got married she bought me a S&W Model 19(We only had been dating three or four months at the time). Just remember all the bad things wiull get worse not better. And never think you can train her. Because she is planning on changing you!

That guy getting beat down was funny.

Dirty Steve........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Wednesday, May 30, 2007, at 07:02:24 (ZULU)

Marc S.-

Dammit, settle down! Maybe she's got a point. My wife does, and it's on top of her head! LOL. Seems like marriage kinda makes us all grow up a little. I haven't been in a big enough fight to draw more than one cop car since I met her. I can actually make a fifth of whiskey last between holidays, too.

Let the damn hernia heal. Those things can get pretty nasty, ya know.

Dirty Steve,

Now I know why they call ya "Dirty"! Here I am, married to old "Buffalo Britches", who don't like guns, and you go and tell us about your catch!

Did anyone else notice how fast that cop got his nightstick unholstered? I'd be willin' to bet he'd already had a shitty day, and wasn't someone you'd wanna screw with, anyhow. Some days, I can watch that video 5 or 6 times.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, May 30, 2007, at 08:33:36 (ZULU)

That 'stick can come out very very fast...

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Wednesday, May 30, 2007, at 14:50:34 (ZULU)

Marc: If a split is going to involve lawyers, skip a few matches. Ultimately, you're competing against yourself, anyway. And that's a match you have to win in your head. When lawyers get involved, you're gonna lose a few guns in any case, to pay for them. I'm learning, the hard way, about stuff like that.

I quit carrying a "nightstick" a few years ago. I used to carry a blackjack tucked in my Sam Browne, just ahead of my pistol. Now, they're politically incorrect, but they issue us an ASP collapsible baton, made of steel. Go figure. You can use a holster for it, but mine resides right where the sap used to, in the belt. When I'm in my "interview stance", I tuck my thumbs into my belt like some kinda southern hick rube cop. what no one sees is that the ASP is already 90% in my grip. Some peckerwood wants to dance, the ASP is already out, extended and on the downswing before he even knows what's coming. I learned that from an old street cop we used to call "La Vipora", many years ago. "Old age, and treachery....."

In keeping with my philosophy of seeing how cheaply one can shoot well, I'm mounting a Super Sniper on the new Remington. It seems to want to shoot really well with the Leupold, but the Howa is sitting in the gun cabinet, glaring balefully at me without the Loopy on it. We'll see.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, May 30, 2007, at 16:55:56 (ZULU)

I finally got ahold of someone at Weaver Outdoor Optics about their "Tactical" scope. Total range of adjustment is 30" in both windage & elevation. That kinda made the plea I was gonna make about the 1/8 MOA adjustments moot. And Redfield doesn't list a Mil-Dot reticle. Where, I wonder, to they do their market research? 3rd barstool from the left?

WR Moore
Wednesday, May 30, 2007, at 17:19:03 (ZULU)

For youz Marines.......

==========================================================

Vacaville, CA., May 17, 2007

Yet another unselfish act of heroism performed by a man wearing the Eagle, Globe and Anchor:

An Air Force Captain narrowly escaped serious injury recently when he decided to try horseback riding, even though he had no lessons or prior experience.

He mounted the horse, unassisted, and the horse immediately sprang into action. As it galloped along at a steady and rhythmic pace, the Captain began to slip from the saddle. In terror, he grabbed for the horse's mane, but could not get a firm grip. He tried to throw his arms around the horse's neck, but he began to slide down the side of the horse anyway!

The horse galloped along, seemingly impervious to its slipping rider. Finally, losing his frail grip, the Captain attempted to leap away from the horse and throw himself to safety. Unfortunately, his foot became entangled in the stirrup, and he was now at the mercy of the horse's pounding hooves as his head struck against the ground over and over and over.

As his head was being battered against the ground and he was mere moments away from unconsciousness, to his great fortune a Marine sergeant shopping at Wal-Mart saw him and quickly unplugged the horse.

====================================================================

Duman
Wednesday, May 30, 2007, at 19:04:59 (ZULU)

Dammit, Duman, NOW I have to clean my monitor! LMFAO!

Have any of you read some of the hatefest going on over this latest big pig? All sorts of losers are dumping on this poor little fat kid! One of the negatives I had to laugh at, from the kid's site, though, WAS funny:

I have to congratulate you because I didn't think it was possible for an 11 yr old as large as yourself to chase a pig for three hours in hilly terrain. Well done, fat boy! For real though. Killing an animal about half your size does not make you a hero, or a model american, or anything else anybody might say you are. It certainly does not make you worthy of being in a movie.

It gets worse from there. Is this what America is becoming? Thousands of people have nothing better to do than call an 11 year old a liar, and worse? I DO have to concede, though, that if this kid and his Dad Kept the grocery bill under $1,000 a week, the "hunt" probably wouldn't have taken 3 hours.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, May 30, 2007, at 22:32:10 (ZULU)

Interim results are in on the LEE perfect powder measure.

I didn't do a full 100 charges, 'cause the results didn't lead me to believe that I'd benefit from it. All weights were taken on a Mettler Toledo AT261 Delta, with the last decimal (delta range) disbled for speed.

This scale is accurate to 0.00001 grams, but I only had it measure to 0.0001 grams (delta range disabled), and is continually calibrated and verified with NIST traceable standards - it cost about $15K when purchased.

I then converted to grains in an excel spreadsheet, by multiplying by 15.43236.

For 50 charges, I got:

Average: 43.773 grains (since I was gunning for 43.8 to 43.9, ideal!)

Maximum: 44.140 grains

Minimum: 41.876 grains

Extreme spread: 2.264 grains

standard deviation: 0.342

In other words, over double the spread my tricked-out RCBS Uniflow did.

Is there some method or technique I don't know about? Obviously my results don't mesh with what other people have gotten, and I naturally wonder 'is it me'?

The powder used was H4895 - Hodgdons verified what my calibrated eyeball said - this is identical in kernal shape and size with Varget.

If someone has technique pointers, I'll gladly repeat the test. As for now though, I'll be throwing charges with my Uniflow, and then hand-trickling to weight. And man, that just SUCKS.

Bravo
Wednesday, May 30, 2007, at 23:00:57 (ZULU)

>>>As for now though, I'll be throwing charges with my Uniflow, and then hand-trickling to weight. And man, that just SUCKS.<<<<

Thought you was on to something, Bravo. I've been following this with interest. Cuz, that's the way I've been throwing charges for a LONG time (Uniflow etc.)and was looking forward to something different.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 00:29:07 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Your results are not consistent with my experience with the Lee.

Some questions...

-did you give the measure time to accumulate the graphite or whatever it is...over the inside of the mechanism?

-did you keep the hopper filled to a consistent level (I usually target 3/4 full)

- did you make sure the gate at the bottom of the hopper was fully in the opened position?

-I generally tap the side of the round feed mechanism on the measure one time for each load..

I loaded 200 rounds using H4350 two weeks back and anecdotally noted the low side measure as 42.7 and the high side as 43.2 with a target of 43

medicjim
Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 02:00:06 (ZULU)

Bravo: "I'll be throwing charges with my Uniflow, and then hand-trickling to weight."

I use a Redding and do it the same way. The Redding trickler is the best I've used but trickling is still a PITA.

CDC'
Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 13:42:09 (ZULU)

Do any of you guys know the importer for Steiner bins - they're down in Joisey, and the name begins with "P", but I can't remember it, and can't find it on Google.

I got a pair of 15x80 commander-II's and I need to have the compass refilled and re-sealed (leak!!)

Thanks...

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 14:52:12 (ZULU)

Bravo,

After 30 samples, you're pretty much taking data for the joy of taking data. The times you need large sample sizes (100+) are when comparing very small differences to check for significance between samples. One question, if the data is plotted sequentially (x-axis == sample number, y-axis == powder charge) is there any trending or oscillation? I trust your experimental techniques.

Although, I think another 2 or 3 digits of significance would greatly improve the results. DOH! :8-o (That was a joke)

Duman
Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 15:56:49 (ZULU)

Lito: Pioneer Research ... need a POC?

Bump me offline.

brian k. sain
Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 16:02:59 (ZULU)

Powder Measure Country,

The old RCBS (I think it was them) had a built in "knocker" on the side. You would use the knocker after throwing each charge to settle the next to give consistant results. I like my new style Dillon measure. I put one of the return springs from the old style on it to make a built in knocker of a consistant size tap. I have not wieghed the charges but I am happy with the ammo on the range.

I have read a recommendation some where on the WWW that you should 1) Fill your measure 3/4 full. 2)Tap the measure to settle the powder. 3) Throw 5 charges and dump them. 4) Then begin loading and tap after each throw.

This is what I do and seems to work. And sounds like what MedicJim also does. I would be interested if Bravo would try this technique. Just try 20-30 charges for jiggles please.

Bolt, You hanging in there?

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 17:10:01 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve,

The Lyman 55 also had the "Knocker".

Using a small funnel in the top of the hopper will

help keep the powder level consistant. YMMV!

Regards,

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, New Joisey, US of A - Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 17:33:15 (ZULU)

I just found out my stock is in,Im pretty excited this is my first custom rifle that I have ever owned.I think I have asked this before but Im going to ask again.I have the nightforce .885 rings now and with the varmint contour barrel I have between 1/8 to 1/4in between the scope(50mm Obj) and barrel.My new barrel will be a strait taper.what are the odds I will have to go up in ring height?

Plus the rings have gone up in price,they went from 130.00 to 170.00 in price.I know the price for steel has gone up but man $40.00.Thats bad.

Jon Kujawa
Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 18:34:09 (ZULU)

Jim, let me get this straight.... my numbers don't match your numbers, THEREFORE I should have read the directions? It's not enough I buy the thing, do all this testing, and then process the data, you want me to read the instructions too? HA! DOUBLE HA! BTW, I got the specialist cert in hand yesterday. Can I go play with neurotoxins now?

Actually, both you and another friend of mine dropped me a line asking if I conditioned the measure first. Well, I thought I did, but I'm certainly game to say "maybe not enough". I'll run a couple of pounds of powder through there, and then try it again.

That's why I put out the comment about assuming it was me ;-)

But the rest of the things I did do. I threw a half-dozen charges into the same pan (taring the balance between charges) and then emptied the pan back into the hopper so it never got anywhere even near half empty.

And Duman, nope! I thought of exactly that as well. The low number was 32nd, and the high number was 15th, just looks like baseline noise. I'm willing to give this a better go though!

And leave it to a Steve (called Dirty) to talk about tapping knockers! HA! Seriously though, on my RCBS, I always throw the charge, then bring the cylinder back into line, and tap once.

I did have an idea a few days ago (sit down everyone!) and thought I'd offer an interesting bit of science for anyone interested.

As you guys know, I was really impressed with the precision my 'tweeked' RCBS gave with some powders (obviously Varget and H4895 weren't in that list). Well, maybe it's time to put those preconcieved notions to rest!

Later in the summer (after my decompression time), on a one-by-one case, how about if we have a great 'powder throw-off'. Here's my idea (feel free to amend, offer, or update - I'm not saying this is anything but a rough idea):

I'm sure that among the lot of us, we've got about every powder measure known to the free world. Send them all to me, one at a time. I'll let you guys know when I'm done with the one I'm working with, we'll just queue them up. I'd say that a realistic time would be 'in my hands' about 1 week - I should be able to weasel in some lab time within a week max.

I'll tabulate the data and put the results on here.

For the sake of education, I'll pay return shipping for anyone that wants to participate. Assuming that we get more than a few guys wanting to participate, it'll be worth it to me. This way we'll ALL know for a FACT what thrower pumps Varget the best. There's nothing I'd like more than to know for a fact which measure, regardless of cost, throws the most consistent load of Varget - and how consistent that throw is! The way I see it, my only other cost is time and a pound of Varget that will be the 'through the measures' pound.

So what say the lot of us?

And JK, I made the same mistake a while back too. When all these brokerage types were talking about stocks to invest in, I thought they were all nuts. I never heard them mention HS or McMillan even once. Just goes to show that brokerage types must not know shooting. But I did invest in stocks! Them, a few US GI synthetic M14 stocks, and some laminates from Fagen-Reinhart. Ah, coffee laminate! Sure was a pretty stick (GRIN).

Bravo
Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 20:35:52 (ZULU)

Bravo - I guess you called my bluff... I'll get the info on Dugway together and see what I can do about convincing the wife to let me loose for a week. I may not tell her about the 'live agent' detail.

Congrats on the 'specialist' title...that officially makes you 'special'.

medicjim
Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 21:42:45 (ZULU)

Bravo, I will send one of my Dillons set up the way I use it with the spring on it.

I said tap the knockers. Not lick them or fondle them. I prefer either of the latter two over tapping.

Dirty(real Dirty)Steve......

DirtySteve
Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 22:10:55 (ZULU)

Brian...

Thanks.

This is the second time I have needed repairs to a Steiner bin, and the second time I have been SHOCKED at the cost!

$55 to replace the whole compass - it don't get no better than that.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, May 31, 2007, at 22:11:38 (ZULU)

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