Sniper Country Duty Roster

Hi guys,can anyone tell me anything about a marlin model 25 bolt action .22.With the Micro Groove Barrel.This is a rifle that I used as a kid to rid the barn of pigeons.

Thanks Jon

Jon Kujawa
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 01:03:07 (ZULU)

Hewy Jon-K...

The Marlin 25 is an Ok little rifle - Micro-grove barrels were good.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 01:20:41 (ZULU)

Mars,

Welcome home. Let me add my thanks for your service.

HDR
OK, - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 01:34:52 (ZULU)

Rod, thanks on the definition... I know/have been able to figger most of them out but I thought the IIRC must have been some Army/MC terminology...

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 03:10:25 (ZULU)

Alan, Your free, white and 21.. You can get it. I'm saying just becareful. Heck I used to ride a CBR900RR when they first came out. I learned I was mortal. And as you know I took as refresher course in being mortal recently. Ha Ha.

Spotter Sniper pair. It is my understanding that the senior guy is the Spotter. However they both take turns swapping out behind the spotting scope to keep eye fatige down. So they alternate jobs. If Pete C. or one of the other real pro's could chime in this would be a done deal.

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 04:07:51 (ZULU)

Can you guys recommend a good Rimfire scope,I think its time to upgrade the old tasco that is on it now.

Is the BSA sweet 22 a bad or good scope?

thanks jon

Jon Kujawa
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 04:40:24 (ZULU)

Alan....should you decide against it, I think D. Steve has a horse for sale. Gentle, soft-broke and a good runner.....

One of the truisms of life is that it's unpredictable. Came home last night, house was empty and a note on the table. 15 years seems to be about the longest I can keep one. Stunned doesn't even begin to describe it. Wow.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 05:44:49 (ZULU)

I'm really sorry to hear that Charles. I can't imagine what a kick in the nuts shocker that must be after fifteen years.

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 06:27:13 (ZULU)

Charles Hunt...

That's a tough one, but some advice from someone that's got experience.

First, report the theft to the police - she can't empty the house, cuz it's "Joint property"... unless she only took her stuff like clothes, and not the common property, like furniture.

Then file for divorce on the grounds of abandonment.

I know it sounds "aggressive" at a time like this, but having been there more times than I want to think of, the reality is that you haven't been left, you have been attacked.

Did she take the financial records and other papers?? If not, get them out of the house and to a trusted friends. When asked for them, say "I don't know where they are, I think she took them". You can always "find them" later if you need to.

Think of it in a different light - you are in a conflict with someone and there is a major injury - what you do in the first 24 hours can determine what happened to you over the years.

Also... from now on, stay single, pay cash, don't keep records that you don't have to (I got THAT teeshirt!!).

When it comes to women - take 'em for a trial drive, lease, but NEVER buy ;) ;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 09:53:18 (ZULU)

Click for an idea on dealing with Iran. It doesn't require a lot of groveling.

Conrad Dobler advised, "If it floats, flies or f**ks, rent it."

Jon K (re: .22 RF scope): Old Weaver K series can be picked up cheap and they work good. Weaver will repair damaged ones for very little $$.

I saw Nikon Monarch UCC 3X9 or 10 or something recently for under $200.

CDC'
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 14:37:46 (ZULU)

Mars: Welcome home and thank you for your service to your country.

Charles S: My condolences. That is a rough one.

Pat II
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 16:11:37 (ZULU)

Chuck, Damn I kinda thought that issue was resolved(wanting to find herself). Appearantly you did too. Sorry to hear about it. I'll talk to you on Monday. Hope she left the guns. I'll bring you a good thinking about stuff cigar tomorrow.

Dad always said if it has tits or wheels you're gunna have problems with it.

CDC, I normally don't favor crusemissle diplomacy. Hoever, in this case it would be appropripate. Like he state we don't want to occupy just nueter them. We shoul send afew and say release them or tomorrow more will arrive. Heck I would target thier leadership on the first strike.

Dirty Steve.......

DirtySteve
Mico, TX, USA - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 17:09:03 (ZULU)

Damn Chuck....you need anything..you know where I am at, and the Dorm will be there for you to hibernate in if needed.

On the Spotter deal, the most experienced person should be the spotter. The spotter is the person that has the most responsibilities, IE Wind reading, assisting in RE,target determination, commo, security,etc.

Bobby Whittington
Grandfield, OK, USA - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 17:28:54 (ZULU)

Charles S. Hunt -

A horse? Nah, I don't need another horse. We've had horses since 1978, all kinds of horses, from Arabs and Appies through Morgans and good ol' Quarterhorse mutts :) And they go from being a royal pain in the arse to a joy to own. Don't need another one right now!

I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. Fifteen years and it comes down to this? Sneaking away like a theif in the night? Bravo's got a good perspective on a similar situation. Perhaps he'll chime in. And 'lito's also a man of some experience in these matters. Listen to his advice. I wish that I had some advice like that after my first disaster. That one only lasted a bit less than five years but almost wrecked my life. The present one has been going strong for over thirty years, so I'm not the one to tell you not to do it again.

Hang in there - it's gonna get much better.

Dirty Steve -

Well, the decision's out of my hands. Somebody snatched up that Hayabusa while I was still just thinkin' about it.

I retired my 1967 Norton 750 P11 (bought it new, right off the showroom floor) just a few years ago mainly because it was getting almost impossible to find parts to keep it going, but also due to two old injuries received in the skies over the Red River Valley in '69 and '71 that started giving me trouble. I had done a major overhaul on it back in '78 that included an 810 kit in the engine and a radical diet that entailed trashing everything that wasn't needed to make it go fast and replacing the complete front end with a Ceriani dirt track setup along with a f&r disc brake setup. Wound up weighing 340 lbs. dry and making almost 90 HP. A real fun ride, couldn't keep footpeg rubbers on it for more than a couple of days;)

Now that I feel much better physically I'm getting the urge to ride something fast again. We'll see.

CDC -

I'd just love to see a solution like that for Iran, but I'll betcha we won't do a thing. And I hope that I'm wrong!

ALAN
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 17:37:18 (ZULU)

CDC: Thanks for the great link...nice to see there are others of a like mind. Time for this country to "get tough" both abroad and at home. So what if oil goes to $100 a barrel? We need to be weaned off of the foreign petroleum teat. Bite the bullet and let's develop those alternative, renewable fuel sources. A recent newscast talked about groceries costing more because more corn was being diverted to ethanol production rather than animal feed or food stuffs. Why do we subsidize agricultural commodities so heavily? ($164.7 billion 1995-2005 http://www.ewg.org:16080/farm/region.php?fips=00000) Your tax dollars and mine. Just "google" the phrase "federal agricultural subsidies", you'll see all kinds of articles by government watchdog groups and newspapers like the Washington Post (article about agricultural farm subsidy payments to people who don't even farm...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/01/AR2006070100962.html ) The young people in this country have all gotten to be too soft and they need a real wakeup call. All this "PC" BS has made them dangerously apathetic and they have too much of the "me, me, what I want" attitude. They are a spoiled bunch. I wasn't around for WWII, but I learned about all the sacrifices the general populace made in terms of rationing, women in the workforce to push the war material effort etc. because I learned about them in school when history classes still covered all the conflicts this country was involved with. What are they teaching kids today? I get office memos from college graduates who do not understand grammar, good sentence structure or the difference in meaning and use of words like "affect" and "effect". Ever go to the store and the register total is $10.12 and you hand them a $20 dollar bill and 12 cents only to look up into the blind stare of a deer looking into the headlights? Or just as bad, they need the register to calculate your change (better be sure you've handed them the money before they've punched the buttons or you'll just confuse them). All very scary...

If this country had gone into Vietnam, the first Gulf War and now Iraq with the unified mindset of WWII, we wouldn't be in the current mess and Iran wouldn't be rattling the sword. My apologies for the rant. It's just a by product of my frustration at watching this country decay. Years ago, I tried to tutor inner city students in mathematics. I was told that I was too tough because I wanted them to learn the math by hand before I would let them use their calculators...geeesh. Forgive me for believing that an understanding of the underlying concepts was important. And if they thought that was tough, they should have learned from my father...but that's another story...

Sorry...did it again...I yield the floor before I get started on anything else...

Gerry
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 17:48:10 (ZULU)

re: defensive measures before marriage.

John Ross (of "Unintended Consequences" fame) have same great proactive advice and discussion on the sanity of getting married

from the male POV.

http://www.john-ross.net/ross_in_range.htm or click my name

Thoughts on Marriage parts I, II and III.

Here is a sample of his wisdom for the aftermath:

6. There are lawyers that your wife must NEVER be allowed to hire. In every major city, there are a few lawyers who are tremendously expensive and tremendously effective at getting large settlements and/or awful terms in divorce cases. These are the guys that will, if they have to, convince your wife to claim you molested your own daughter. When these kinds of lawyers meet in court, the legal fees, as above, are astronomical, even if the resulting settlement isn't. You must never allow yourself to ever face one of these people in court, especially without his counterpart on your side, and there is a very simple way to do that:

Hire all of them first.

I mentioned I knew both of the men involved in the just-described case. That is because I had hired both of them years before, as well as three other men of the same standing in St. Louis. At the point that my own marriage's future looked uncertain, I made separate appointments with these five men. I did not lie. I explained to each that I wanted to stay married, but that my wife was unhappy and since it was possible we would get divorced if things didn't get better, I wanted to find out what my options were and what kind of things I could expect to have happen during a divorce proceeding. I said to each I had heard he was very good, from conversations at the club. All these were true statements.

In addition to getting some very eye-opening answers, I had divulged information about myself and my finances, and now all of these men were prohibited from working for my wife. This cost me $200 each except for one lawyer who charged $400. That was the lawyer later hired by the husband in the above story. During my consultation, the lawyer who later got stiffed by the wife found out I knew about guns and asked if I could get him a bolt for his semi AK, which he had lost. I delivered one the next day for my cost of $68.25. It's been over a decade and he's never paid me. He's also the one whose women clients most often accuse their husbands of molesting their own children.

I should point out that doing what I've described above is called a "fashion show" and it is something high-powered divorce lawyers absolutely hate. The St. Louis "divorce cartel," as we call them, is down to four (I think) lawyers as one of the five went up the river for fraud. They are on to this technique, and each of them now requires a $2,500 retainer before they will talk to you for a half hour. This means a $10,000 tab, which is still dirt cheap when compared to what you are avoiding.

If you do what I advise, your wife will then have to hire either a decent and ethical lawyer, or one that her girlfriends have talked her into because he/she has a reputation as "tough" or "a real fighter." The latter is what you want. "Tough" in this case really means that he/she is very abrasive but sloppy and/or lazy, and rather than making powerful legal arguments for making more things joint property, will focus on running up your wife's legal bills, which you will have to pay. Believe me, padded legal bills from a lawyer like this are a great trade for true competence. This kind of lawyer HATES going to trial, and will advise your wife to settle right before trial. It will be at the last minute to get more hours billed. More on this later.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 18:48:26 (ZULU)

Charles...

What Rod said about "Fashion shopping", but there is a way around the $10,000 cost.

It works like this - send a registered letter to the lawyers detailing your case, and asking them if they will tell you if they will take the case, and how much it will cost!

That's all it takes to "poison" them.

If they show up in court, have them disqualified because of prior knowledge of the case, and having your private information - it works 90+% of the time.

(I'm learning ;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 20:29:46 (ZULU)

Rod Regier & 'lito:

We're ALL learning....

Gerry
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 21:33:12 (ZULU)

Gents,

Good friend of mine;

Libertypen.com

180 degrees from his cousin the Congerssman. HA!

Semper-Fi!

Spud

Dennis B. Queen
Merced, Kalisocialistfornia, USA - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 04:42:39 (ZULU)

Charles, man sorry to hear your suffering. Been there myself. Might be a good diea to take Bobby up on his offer, Times like this are best around good folks and away form the pain, if only for a couple of days.

Catmans advice is good also. Grab your share. I have let them go with everything just to get screwed even more later. Fair is fair,.

Mike/Undude

MIkeMiller
Ca, - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 05:21:01 (ZULU)

Thanks, guys, for the words of advice and encouragement. It's a good thing to know that there are those out there that have seen the elephant are are still around to talk about it. Nietzche once said, "That which does not kill me, makes me stronger." Of course, he's dead, but it's the thought that counts, right? I'll be all right, I still got a couple of bounces left in me. It was just a bit of a shock, that's all. Thanks again. At least now, I can fire up a really nice Macanudo in the comfort of my easy chair, instead of having to go outside and have all that lovely fragrance get blown away by the wind.....cool.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 07:33:32 (ZULU)

You guyz know that our little cell phones (we call them "Toy phones" in out house) have GPS in them so "you know who" can find you... now the location service is available on the net for anyone to use.

http://www.sat-gps-locate.com/index33.html

It's scary.

Charles...

I know you are hurting BADD, but if anyone crawls through the SC archives, there are many many tales of these guys going through shit with women critters.

I may have the ultimate collection of "tee shirts" in this department, and now see all women as passing stones across the stream of life... if one works out, good... fine, but if not, I move on. God didn't make women to be a permanent fixture in mens life. We are meant to taste the apples of life... "ALL of them!".

When a woman walks out like that, you don't have a troubled relationship - the relationship went a long time ago. You now have a primal enemy, so prepare for the worst.

My second told me that she was helping her little sister with studies each weekend to finish college... until her little sister called one weekend to speak to her :(( She was bangin' a rich Long Island dentist, who owned a rock music recording studio, and was she "taken by the glitz" and the money.

I kicked her out to her dentist... and two years later, she called me from some asshole island in the Caribbean and said that the dentist had left her for some other babe, and she was stuck in a hotel with 9 weeks due ($17,500) and they wouldn't give her passport and luggage back, and could I send her the money so she could get back to the states... all those shitty years were worth it when I said, "Can you swim", and hung up! - A follow up is that she is now 50, living on public assistance (the PC word for welfare) in single room in a welfare hotel in NYC.

So Charles... you have been attacked, and as in war, when you are hurt you still have to hunker down and fight.

Drop me an e-mail if I can help.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 09:58:25 (ZULU)

Icy you know where to find me and have my number, use it anytime!

Guys looking for a very specific start point for a load. OK data first: 16" 1:9 twist AR (DPMS Bull barrel)

Next Varget and just Varget PLEASE!

Next 69gr SMK's and only 69gr SMK's PLEASE!

Now the Sierra accuracy load is 23.5 Varget BUT that's from a 20" and that load from my 16" is only about 2560 fps give or take. I think I can "speed it up" say around 2800+ and still get some good accuracy.

So anyone want to give me a STARTING point!

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 10:52:12 (ZULU)

One of one of my brother's wives (it makes sense if you reread it) cleaned him out. He came home to an aluminum lawn chair, a tv that didn't work right and about three bucks worth of disposable or broken kitchen stuff.

So he laughed, said "It's just more s**t", and went to work: He bought some more tools, did a nice rennovation on the house, went to electronics stores and furniture stores and put the place in better order than it was originally.

Well, the ex came to see him. She looked around, gave him a big "boo hoo", did him a job in the sack, and moved back in.

A couple of weeks later she cleaned him out again. Took it all. Her brother even got his new tools.

This time he said, "It's just more s**t, but this s**t is getting expensive."

The moral of our story is: Bye bye MEANS bye bye.

He, and his amazingly lovely and gracious wife #4 live in SA. He is smarter than he sounds.

CDC'
Monday, April 2, 2007, at 14:38:50 (ZULU)

Sarge: The load you have for Varget is probably about as good as you're going to get. If all you are going to use is that powder, you're gonna hit deminishing returns real quick, as Varget is a medium to slower burning powder. I had to switch to AA2230 to get my speed back up to the 2700 mark out of that short bbl, I wasn't able to do it with Varget. As with all things, YMMV....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 16:08:26 (ZULU)

Optics question,

I stoped in at local shop,they had the Nightforce NSX 5.5x22 scope,I thought about it all weekend,I must have one.The question is,is there anything better,what about U.S optics,or Schimdt and bender?

thanks jon

Jon Kujawa
Monday, April 2, 2007, at 18:13:08 (ZULU)

Charles Hunt, Call me ASAP. Need to run something past you.

Cell 910 459 9410

Hey guys, get back later. I'm working like that one-armed paper hanger.

Semper Fi.

Finger

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 18:16:11 (ZULU)

If one of you happens to be bored, could you please explain to me how underpressure loads blow a revolver up?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 18:55:02 (ZULU)

Travis...

Not to be picky... but what do you mean by "under pressure"? Under WHAT pressure?

There is no such word or phrase.

If you mean extremely low pressure, the bullet sticks in the barrel, and the next one breaks the gun!

Jon-K...

Think about it for a while.

It's a lot of money to spend on an impulse (don't ask me how I know that ;)))

USO is an iffy thing, some like them, but many have had problems with them... and they are not made of one piece bodies, so the body integrity is shaky.

S&B is a top of the line scope, and worth a good look.

Decide what you want the scope to do, then go get the one that does what you want - If I had done that with women, I wouldn't be in the spot I'm in now :(((

Don't get guns or women on impulse :(

'lito

Another day writing court motions - do I know how to have fun or WHAT????

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 19:20:12 (ZULU)

OK! I'm getting to the point where I'm going to have to break down and try either RE15 or more 2230! Chuck that load you gave me on the 2230 is the one I'm quoting! So where do I go from here? Need to get back into my manuals and check some web sites but again, where is a good starting point, that worked in YOUR 16"! Of course I KNOW I'll have to work it up but looking for ideas!

Just looking at some web sites and a further question, anyone use AA2495?? That is one of Accurates powders of choice for .223 and 69gr SMK's.

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 20:31:32 (ZULU)

Lito,

thanks for the words of wisdom

Jon Kujawa
Monday, April 2, 2007, at 20:44:57 (ZULU)

2-Mile Prairie Dogs with 308 (Ackley Improved) and 338 Lapua (Ackley Improved): http://www.northfloridashooting.com/Misc/2MilePrarieDogs/2MilePrarieDogShooters.htm

sinister
Monday, April 2, 2007, at 22:17:01 (ZULU)

Sarge:

In .223 and .308 Varget is volume limited, not pressure limited.

(Meaning that you generally run out of case space for powder

before you hit pressure limits). You'll need a faster/higher density powder to get more velocity with the 69g SMK's in .223 Rem.

Lee 2nd edition .223 Rem 69g projectile data max loadings in descending velocity order:

AA2520

AA2460

V-N540 (compressed)

XMR-2495 (compressed)

AA2230

(truncated)

(Barrel length unspecified).

Looks like AA2520 would be the best choice based on that data.

I understand it's also a good choice for 165/168g .308 Win loadings too.

Sarge, you can send me a private email and I'll send you a .PDF scan from the book page if you like.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 22:33:16 (ZULU)

Charles:

redecorating empty spaces:

Here is what John Ross did -

http://www.john-ross.net/marriage_ii.htm

This may sound like paranoia but it is a not-uncommon practice for a wife to decide to move out on you when you are out of town and take EVERYTHING with her.

This happened to me. I returned home from a 3-day visit with my best friend from college, and for every room except my study, it was like moving into a new apartment. Not a single fork, plate, roll of toilet paper, curtain, drape, salt shaker, napkin, bar of soap, nothing. She even hired an electrician out of the Yellow Pages to take down some ceiling light fixtures she liked. (Our regular electrician refused. I think he had visions of me skinning him alive.) When I'd tell people what had happened to me, their eyes would get big and they'd invariably tell me of two or three other friends they knew whose wives had done exactly the same thing.

Men don't talk about it but it happens often enough to plan for--at least as often as having a fire at your house. Prepare yourself mentally for the possibility that one day you'll walk in the door to find your home has been stripped. The hardest will be when you find your kids' rooms empty of all things. The message is they will never come back. This is not true. Focus on the fact that after the divorce is over, your kids are going to see you and stay with you regularly. Now that she's bolted, it can only get better from here.

While the lack of furnishings is a visual shock, it is a reality that furniture, rugs, dinnerware, kid's beds, etc. are as close as the nearest store. Business records, tax information, deeds, and legal instruments are much more difficult to reconstruct. If your wife (as mine did) takes every scrap of paper and every computer disk that she can lay hands on to give to her lawyer, you will be very glad you followed my example and had all the important things in a bank vault, and had no joint accounts for her to loot. Within three days of coming home I had the house refurnished enough to comfortably live in, had restocked the kitchen with serviceable items from Sam's and Linens 'n' Things, and moved my cannons (Krupp, Hotchkiss, and Gatling) and elephant tusks from the garage and basement into the living quarters for improved decor.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 23:16:36 (ZULU)

Since you brought this up Rod... It's funny, my wife has been going through the process of getting life insurance for me, and we were talking, she said with all the insurance on me you'd do real good. I said honey don't talk that way, but the next day after the funeral my gun cleaning stuff will be in the bedroom, and I'll be in the market for a small ranch either in the West, Costa Rica or Tennessee!

So don't despair too much Charles. Any bitch that would do that to you is better off gone. But you know that. It will just take a little time. You've had better advice than this from the guys here.

At least, you can smoke those Macundos (or however you spell it) and feel free to keep your gun cleaning stuff close at hand.

On a different note: I've really fallen in love with that Beretta 1201FP autoloader shotgun I bought. And I didn't even shoot it yet! It's a beauty.

doug sickels
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 01:05:33 (ZULU)

Hi folks,

I'm refinishing a winchester model 67 .22 rimfire.

The stock was real bad,real-real bad. Basically black with dings and scratchs all over her. So used some strip-X stripper and sanded her down with some 220 grit, then 320, then finally down to 400 with mineral spirits. Now she has nice grain lines with beautiful color.

On a Marlin model 81 I refinished I used some minwax polyshade in a light honey color after doing the above process. but it still came out darker than I wanted in places where some of the original stain was deep in the wood. I was trying to get a tiger stripe finish in the wood grain but it didnt turn out right.

on this stock it has a real nice grain when you hit it with the mineral spirits and i don't want to change a thing. But I do want to seal the stock. Tung or linseed with M.S. seems to want to redarken the grain and i don't want to go any more darker.

Q: what should i use to seal the wood that wont darken the grain but keep that shine?

I posted some picks here: http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s299/Mr32Finish/Stock/

Any help would be appreciated.

JerryC
Cypress, Tx, USA - Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 03:36:19 (ZULU)

Sarge, 2230 is a bit too fast for max performance with the 69 gr sierra in a .223 - Going from the Hodgdon burn rate chart, you might check out H4895 as well for that application

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/general/burnratechart.php

My notes for AA2230 go up to the 62 gr IMI SS109 in an LC case with a max of 23.8 grains. (For you lurkers with an urge to get into reloading, this is NOT a SAFE starting point)

medicjim
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 03:41:27 (ZULU)

Sinister, I can't get to that link. Is there system down or is there another place I can see that? The curiosity is killin me.

Sarge, The shorter the barrel the faster your powder choice should be. In order to get the most velocity from the tube. I know it has been said but what the heck.

I talked to Chuck the other day and he seems to be taking it well. Said he wasn't "cleaned out" but enough missing to make it obvious something happened. I think he has a good grip on what needs done.

I cleaned out my storage building today. I'm beat now. Got rid of 121 lbs of 40 S&W brass and 600 pounds of scrap steel. Got a ton of crap I have been saving that I needs to tossed in the dumpster at work. BDU's that probly have rats moving in, old jungle boots, cassete tapes, plastic 4" fittings and crap like that. My wife made me(by that I mean she moved them) take my gun cases out of the living room. She stuck them in the reloading room. I moved one back in to the living room and put the others in the storage building. I stuck it beside the gun safe. I bet she will give up and conceed I need one in there.

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 04:17:15 (ZULU)

Sarge -

The powder to use in a .223 for 69SMK's, especially with a carbine barrel, is without a question 748. Start with 25 grains in either Winchester or LC cases and you'll get where you want to go.

But be very careful, 'cause 748 is VERY temperature sensitive and the load that you work up at mild temperatures will turn around and bite you on the ass in the heat of the summer.

Another powder that will give fine results is VV140, if you don't mind using the high-priced stuff. 25 gr. is a good starting point.

Oh, and before I forget, there's always good ol' H335! Start with about 24.5gr and work up. I use a hot load of 25.7gr. and get 3000fps out of a 20" barrel. It's a plenty fast enough powder to burn fully in a carbine barrel and should get you decent velocities.

Jerry C -

Anything wet that you put on that stock will make it darker. It's just a matter of degrees. That's just how it goes.

Minwax makes a clear sealer/stain called #209 Natural. It's clear and pretty good for what you want to do.

Have you considered a plain wax finish like the old timers used to use?

Melt 1/3 (by volume) natural beeswax - found in crafts stores like Hobby Lobby - 1/3 BLO - 1/3 turpentine and mix together while carefully heating until fully combined. Apply to the stock while still hot with some lintless cotton material and rub in well into the grain. Then burnish until it glows. It workee!!

ALAN
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 04:29:54 (ZULU)

Abandonment/Divorce Country- there's something no one has mentioned: GET NEW LOCKS NOW!!!!!!!!!!! For everything. If I'm beating a dead horse, sorry. I've learned too, there's a joint account I kick money into every month for mortgage, bills etc.

WR Moore
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 05:16:01 (ZULU)

Well, I learned some time back about the need for OPSEC, so I won't go into all I accomplished today, but it was a good chunk. There comes a moment of clarity when you realize that, as long as you hve enuff shekels to eat with, life can actually be pretty sweet.

One little vignette that just tickled the shit outta me. I was at the city Magistrate's office, booking some peckerwood, when my middle daughter's douchebag ex-live in came walking by....with the rest of the chain gang coming from araignment! HA! Double HA! I told him several years ago I'd see him either in Hell or jail, didn't care which came first. Auto theft....gave me that smarmy, hypocritical tone and asked me how the kids (my grandkids off this slimy piece of human offal) were, like he cared. The jailer was a mensch and let me push him in the holding cell and slam the door....geez. Now, if they'd just let me push the hypo plungers in too.....anyway, it made my day somewhat brighter.

Anyway, now that the hot, sick feeling you get when you get the wind punched outta you is wearing off, I'll be ok. All I hafta do now, is figure out how to keep her from getting my pension.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 06:01:55 (ZULU)

I enjoyed the J Ross web site - it was interesting. But no one is an expert in divorces. We just have the experiences of our own lessons.

I have been divorced twice. The first time, I was so happy just to be out of the relationship. I won't bore you with the story. It was bad stuff but it did not matter, compared to the new lease on life. I am not even mad. Just sad that the lesson cost 10 years. But I was lucky to have a second chance in life. It is a rare gift.

The second time the divorce was sadly necessary. Even our marriage counselor said that another 5 years of counseling would not make a difference. She wrote me a check afterwards just to be nice (symbolic?), gave me the house (she had three,) and we have remained best friends. She is the one person I can count on to do whatever is necessary to stop anyone from hurting me, regardless of the personal consequences to herself. And I would do the same for her. We share bank accounts, provide for each other in our wills, and she is always welcome here. She has more integrity than anyone I know.

I think it is just the difference in two people. It is not really about divorces per se. Some people stand by you no matter what, even when it seems a contradiction. Some can't. Don't lower yourself or become mean. Learn what you can, and be happy in spite of everything. And value the opportunity to remake your life. It is a gift that many people will envy, and few will ever have. Everything will be OK.

I realize that children add a different element. But in general, good people will put the kids first, and selfish people won't. And kids come back.

P. Hayden
USA - Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 06:50:34 (ZULU)

Got out to Cedarville CA - extreme NE for a varmint shoot. Critters out there are called Squeeks (Belding's Ground Squirrels I think). They look kind of like a 5"-9" prairie dog.

Wrung out the new Winny Coyote in 223 WSSM. I know that round has pooped out commercially but I picked up the SS/Lam Mod 70 for a song and found a place called Reed's Ammo that makes small batch ammo to order for really reasonable prices.

Anyway - that gun is a shooter! Was hitting the squeeks from about 140-240 yards all day long holding straight on. Had one hit at 340+ yards with a small hold over (4-5 inches).

Inside 150 yards (and sometimes out to about 170) used a 17 hmr Volquartsen. That was one fun day of shooting.

Couldn't be happier with the two rifles. Only thing I did to the Winny is set the trigger pull down and tighten the action to the stock properly. The rifle had some epoxy bedding from the factory but it must not have been seated or tightened down properly. When I first took it to the range the bolt was tough to lock into battery. After I did my trigger work and reset the action in the stock - it was much better.

Needless to say the VQ needed no work at all.

Both rifles were topped by 4.5-14 Conquest. The VQ has a 44mm obj and the Coyote has a 50mm obj. SWFA had some pretty good deals on these scopes (remans) on their sample list. Also brought my 17hmr Savage topped by a 4.5-14x44 Target Turret/Mil dot scope but it never made it out of its case on this trip.

The combo of a short range semi auto rim fire and a long range center fire was just about perfect for this type of shoot.

Also put to work on this trip were a set of Lupie Gold ring 10x binos and a Bushnell 1500 ARC LRF. These both worked out very well. The binos were our primary glass leaving my Meopta 20-60 scope left unused on its tripod. The LRF was pretty useful for the over 280 yard shots where some hold over was needed with the 223 and also in determining if the squeek in question was within 17hmr range. (didn't stop us from the occasional shot though - these usually turned into a chase and involved emptying the 9 rnd mag).

Anyway- this was my first real varmint shoot and I definitely recommend it as a really fun way to get your shooting skills up to snuff. I am hooked.

LTChip
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 10:08:37 (ZULU)

Well... I solved my scope problem (for the immediate project).

I found a mint (no marks) 6.5-20 Nikon UCC with the locking eyepiece and fine xhairs for chump change on ebay... I was the only one to bid on it - he spelled Nikon wrong - the starting (and only) bid was $175.

But I still don't know what to do in the future :(

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 11:07:19 (ZULU)

About women:

To quote Ron White,

"When you've seen one woman naked...you want to see the rest of them naked."

Hank
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 16:15:00 (ZULU)

I wish I could post pictures here. There is a picture of Nancy Pelosi with a scarf on her head in Syria that is guaranteed to make your head explode.

doug sickels
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 20:43:21 (ZULU)

Like I said the other day, I am busy. Damn cutting into my hunting time. our parent company (ArmorGroup) just won the contract for the embassy security in Kabul. Good for me, cause I get to have the American guys who are going over here to vet and train. I start the 3-week DM course next week. Looking forward to that. Then I get a weeks leave (3rd Force Recon RVN reunion) and back for the ERT guys for another 3 weeks.

Was told we might be going over there to train the guard force guys. And I thought my traveling days were over.

If any of you young bucks are interested drop your resume at resume@armorgroupamerica.com

Oh yeah, While I am at home, I get to meet my new grandson Drake. He checked in last week.

S/F

Finger

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 00:55:30 (ZULU)

Hey Alan ! Thanks!

I've never heard of that Ol' timers secret recipe! I think i might give it a whirl. :^}

I didnt get the 1/3 BLO though ? missed it.. what is it?

JerryC
Cypress, Tx, USA - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 01:25:12 (ZULU)

Hey Guys...

One of the other shooting websites has a petition to ban the deadly chemical, DiHydrogen MonOxide (DHMO).

This deadly substance MUST be outlawed.

Go here:

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/ban-dihydrogen-oxide.html

Sign the petition and save the world!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 01:32:32 (ZULU)

'lito,

You sneaky varmint. You almost had me! I love it. DiHydrogen MonOxide!! It must be truly addictive because it goes so well with with so many organic compounds. Johnny Walker Black and Knob Creek come to mind.

Cheers & Bottoms Up,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The chilly Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 01:44:44 (ZULU)

re: "Shooter" (2007):

Saw it tonight, didn't much resemble the overall structure of the book, but a fair story nonetheless. The technical details that I understand were well done.

Ultimate accolades for a Hollywood production - it didn't make me cringe.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 01:48:17 (ZULU)

Jerry,

BLO = boiled linseed oil good formula that works well

Calvin

PS mix is highly flammable use a double boiler to melt it

Calvin
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 02:20:28 (ZULU)

Just a reminder...linseed oil is notorious for spontaneous combustion...leave a contaminated rag laying around and you'll burn your house down.

medicjim
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 02:44:21 (ZULU)

Here is that link to Pelosi.. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070404/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_pelosi

or click on my name...

Finger, Congrats on the new Grandson.

Lito, Ok what the heck is DHMO? I understand I understand it is two Hydrogen atom and one Oxygen....... Crap disregard.. Just hit me.. I'm not a complete idiot. Just resemble one. HAHA...

Dirty Steve.........

DirtySteve
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 02:46:01 (ZULU)

By all means ban the nasty stuff. Fish copulate in it.

CDC'
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 03:00:07 (ZULU)

CDC...

>"By all means ban the nasty stuff. Fish copulate in it."<

Damn! I'm glad I don't let any of it get near me!

BRAVO!!! Give her a rest and come up for air. ;)))))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 05:12:00 (ZULU)

Nancy Pelosi America's new trator bitch. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17920536/

She went over ther and showed them how weak the Democreets are. She defied the President. And was used as a tool by those rag head SOB's. They know as long as the Demo's control anything in this country they will be safe to attack us and our friends with out threat of any serious consequenses. Gee what a great day for my father's previous political party. (He moved to another State and registered as a republican, even he couldn't take thier crap any more)

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 15:11:42 (ZULU)

Rod

I saw shooter also over the weekend. I recalled certain points from a book I read years ago. Such as removing the firing pins before he left. Was the book also called shooter?

And wasn't the big standoff in the book where he made his way to the top of a hill and was picking them off from there?

I liked the movie though. I almost never go, it takes a new sniper movie to get me out.

Here's something that shocked me though...

When I called about the movie times they also mentioned the regular price is $9.50 Seniors is $6.50.

I though Wow, Almost 10 bucks to get in...

The kid charged me $6.50

I'm still getting over that!

doug sickels
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 17:21:16 (ZULU)

doug sickels -

The title of the original Stephen Hunter book is 'Point of Impact". It was first published back in 1993, and re-released in 2007 with a new cover that shows a pic of Marky Mark carrying what looks like a PSS with a MK4 M1 on top and the word SHOOTER across the middle of the page.

And yeah, the big standoff was when Bob the Nailer wiped out a Salvadoran Spec Ops detachment from a hilltop hide who were sent to kill him by a rogue CIA contingent.

I haven't seen the flick yet, and will probably wait until it hits PPV on DirecTV.

I just don't think that Marky Mark can cut it as Swagger. As I've mentioned here before I'll always think of Marky Mark as Dirk Diggler!

ALAN
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 21:49:37 (ZULU)

Had the pleasure of meeting Stephen Hunter in 2002. He came to one of my civilian precision rifle classes at BW. Found him to be a very humble and pleasant man. He had a ton of questions and never stopped taking notes. Guess I will hafta go see the movie.

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 21:59:55 (ZULU)

Patron Mike, sorry for not getting with you sooner. Geoff isn’t taking work for a few more days (sling swivel studs installed), but I’ll get with you ASAP.

A Savage in 6.5X284, ready to roll? That’s speaking my language. It’s been a long time since I’ve been tempted by an ‘off the rack’ stick.

Pat, I know there are a lot of differences between sticks, but in my Swede with the 140 class bullets (I haven’t ever tried any of the Scenars through mine) I’ve been quite happy with the H4831SC. It outclassed 4350 and everything else I tried in my stick. I’ve been told (haven’t done this first-hand) that one of the Vihta 500 series powders worked really well. One guy I know uses RL22, but it never performed for me. I’ve also caught a nasty rumor that Hodgdons will be discontinuing their 4831SC, which doesn’t bode well for me.

Patron Kittywhacker, I bought the Aimpoint M3 through SWFA, just ‘cause of what they did for Major Santa. I was / am happy with mine. Oh, and if I did have one trapped, I wouldn’t bother posting here (GRIN).

Steve in Butte, about the HK, beware of getting too much oil on the recoil buffer. I was told that doing so might have been the reason mine kicked too much. Something about loading up the parts that are supposed to buffer with oil, making it more ‘solid’ in a hydrostatic kind of way. I sold mine before I heard of that, so on the current one I’ve got (which recoils like a pussycat) I keep oil away from the buffer. Scope mounts on the G3 / 91? Waste of time. Unless you like welding, this is an effort in frustration – check the archives. There are two different drums that I know of, it sounds like the one you have is the frog version with 4 apertures. The kraut version has a 100 yard cut-out, not an aperture. Those are plentiful and cheap, easy to switch out. On the FAL, DSA came out with a lower that is entirely too tempting to me. It comes complete with an M16A2 rear sight installed. Scoping battle rifles is a losing proposition, with the exception of the AR10 types. It can be done, but not with class and style. Of course, my perspective is more along the lines of ‘none of the best battle rifles work optimally with optics’, but then AR10 guys don’t like that kind of statement LOL!

Mars, welcome back!

Spotter / shooter relationships: I’ve always strived to function in the spotters position. Unfortunately, there are plenty of grassbellies that outperform me at that task. Everyone should have something to strive for, eh?

Divorce country: while I don’t post as often as I could (note I didn’t say ‘should’), I’ve been in contact with Chuck since day one. What does that prove? I lurk ;-) What is my perspective on things? Well, like Mr. Hayden noted, “no one is an expert in divorces. We just have the experiences of our own lessons.” Granted though that some of us have more lessons than others. If there were two things that I’d wish (the first being that no man would be forced to go through this, the second being that the black-robes would grow spines and disallow the purposefully malicious use of the lawyer system as a bludgeoning weapon) the main thing is that it’s all relative. What our great good friend Bruce went through had to have been the high mark, and as such proved that there are exceptions to the rule. Many of us have lived in the opposite extreme though demonstrating ‘the rule’. Just like ‘Lito, my mind automatically centered on full battle mode instantly, and that’s a learned response from getting hit between the eyes too many times, and too hard. We are products of our environment it would seem, which is evolutionary at least. Thus another quote from Nietzsche (from Beyond Good and Evil) “Do not look too deeply into the eyes of the monster, for in your battle, you may see yourself in them”. I might have messed up the quote a touch, but it’s close enough for gubmint work. That’s the thing about bridges, it takes years and years to build one, slews of effort, sweat, and time. All it takes is one jerk with no real intentions and a few minutes of idle time to use a careless match and bring it all down ‘because it felt like the thing to do at the time’. While I’m all for self protection, I hesitate to be the fellow that says ‘go ahead and drop the lit match’.

As for me though, my decision is plain at this point: CDC’ posted exactly that, until I am ‘told otherwise’. While I have nothing but great wishes for Kent and his new bride (and I have a great deal of faith in both of them due to the circumstances surrounding the situation), I’m waiting on a similar revelation. Until that time, rental is fine with me.

Bravo
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 22:24:10 (ZULU)

I thought Marky MARK did a good job.Hes one of my favorite actors.

Jon Kujawa
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 22:45:52 (ZULU)

Thanks Alan, that's the book I read.

I thought he did a good job in the movie also, but if you notice, each scene that was shot with other people they shot from an angle that made him appear to not be short. He is short right?

doug sickels
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 00:09:51 (ZULU)

Jim:

I've enjoyed Stephen Hunter's books. You have to be very careful about going to movies based on an author you like. It is very rare that a movie bears much resemblence to the book. "Shooter" was a good movie, but only bore a vague resemblence to some of the elements of the book.

Case in point, Clive Cussler's legal tussle with the producers of "Sahara".

Tom Clancy has not been very happy with the movie versions of several of his books too.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 01:47:52 (ZULU)

Midway has Kimber 1911 mags cheap. How good are they?

Movies from books: Let's take the case of making the movie Troy from "The Iliad". The producers had to "fix the story". Um hmm, the story overpowers readers for, what, thirty two centuries? and some Hollywood nitwit decides it needs to be fixed.

Brad Pitt is Achilles?

Not on his best day.

CDC'
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 02:21:09 (ZULU)

Doug:

Mark Wahlberg is 5'7"

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000242/bio

The median height of an average American Male is 5'9".

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 02:33:26 (ZULU)

Rod

I guess 5'7" is relatively short. He did do a good job in the movie.

The point in the movie when he heard they killed his dog...

If I heard that, I'd do what he did if I was capable. People deserve to die more than dogs do. There are just some things you don't do.

You kill my dog, you're a dead man, one way or the other.

doug sickels
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 02:56:45 (ZULU)

The problem that I have with casting Marky Mark in the role of Bob Lee Swagger is that it totally misses the point of the entire 'Bob the Nailer' series that Hunter was trying to get across.

Written in 1993, the book focused on the alienation of an entire generation of American men who went off to war in VN carrying their high ideals with them, and who returned disillusioned with the society that they felt had betrayed them. Swagger was said to have been 'retired' from the Corps in 1975 as a Gunny. Now how many Gunny's do you know that are much under 30 years of age? That should put Swaggers age at what, around 48, when the book was written?

The physical resemblence isn't there either. Swagger is described as tall, well over 6ft., and lean almost to the point of being skinny. No, it's obvious that Hollywood cast Marky in the Swagger role to appeal to the young kids who make up the vast majority of moviegoers. Well, I suppose that this movie wouldn't even have been made if the script closely resembled the book. Too bad :(

Of course, we all know what other liberties the producers took in the name of diversity! I think that I'll stick to the printed page.

ALAN
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 03:14:48 (ZULU)

CDC,

The stainless 7 round mag that came with my Kimber works just fine. I mainly use Wilson Combat because they hold 8 rounds.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The frosty Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 04:11:02 (ZULU)

Click my name. Good stuff. The ten-pump BB gun one makes me think of 'lito.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 05:57:01 (ZULU)

CDC, Kimbers mags look at lot like Metal Form mags. I hvave seen both side by side and thats my opinion. Metalforms are good. Mec-Gars have also worked well for me try looking here. http://www.ajaxgrips.com/ajax/colt

I would not get the Mc Cormick mags. I have seen them break. They replaced them but it shouldn't happen. Try Clark Custom too. http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/1911mags.htm

If you call them to order let them know what price they have on the internet. They will honor it. They are getting ready for a price increase.

Chuck, The package arrived

Dirty Steve......

Dirty Steve
Mico, TX, USA - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 05:57:02 (ZULU)

Guys,

The movie was good IMO. I was not happy to see how far from the book it had been altered. I guess its hard to make a movie based on a book, and keep the movie down to about 2 hours. They left a ton of stuff outta the movie.

I read that Mark W. went to Front Sight to learn about shooting rifles. At least they made an attempt to add some reality to the flick.

In the movie Swagger meets Ms. Fenn in Keene City Kentucky. There is a town named Keene that I drive thru on my way to the 3 Gun shoots. Little bitty place too. Although that scene looks like it could have been shot in Kentucky I donn't think they filmed any part of shooter in this state.

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 06:35:07 (ZULU)

89 hours..........31 minutes...............17 seconds..........without a smoke............ARGHH

Right now I could rip a smoker's head off and suck the nicotine tainted blood from his bloody neck stump. The Chantix no-smoking medicine is not a cure all but it damn sure is helping.

Bolt, a little shakey and out!

Bolt
Please blow smoke in my face in..................., NC, - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 10:32:20 (ZULU)

Boltster...

Hang in there, Dude.

Those damn sticks killed both of my parents, twenty years before their time - killed both of my uncles and my favorite aunt too!

Damn dumbassed Texicans - couldn't rope a calf, take a shower, or make love without a cigarette hangin' out of their mouff :(((

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 10:56:57 (ZULU)

Bravo

I use a lot of H4227, and that has been discontinued, but the new IMR4227 is the old H4227. The new can has to say Made in Australia and packaged in the U.S.A. I just wonder if Hogdon isn't getting rid of the duplicate numbers between IMR and HOGDON? I'll have to find out, becuase i use H4831 various calibers.I really like that powder.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 11:40:30 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Your experiences mirror mine with powders for the 6.5x55. I could not get RL-22 to shoot or VV N-160 which are suppose to be the sweetheart powders for the 6.5x55s.

I have had a few decent groups with the 4831SC and the 4350SC with the 139 Lapuas shooting at 400 to 600yds. I just have not been able to get it to shoot as consistant as I would like. I know part of its been the weather when I am out shooting I have to constantly fight the damn wind. I have not had any good weather to speak of since I got it back so I am still playing around with it. I have a load of 4831 and one of 4350 to try out when the weather settles down some.

Everytime I try to load test I get a couple of groups down range and the wind starts coming up and switching around all over the place. I don't like load testing at 100yds with a long range rifle. I have had several groups that are in the .5moa range so I just need to replicate it a couple more times to know its not a fluke group. Thanks for the tips hope all is well with you!!

Pat
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 13:25:11 (ZULU)

Bolt, I recommend you go shooting tomorrow. Since you don't normally smoke when you shoot. (or do you) you would not associate the activity with smoking. Hang in there my Dad only smoked for about 55 years. And he kind of gave it up. No he's not dead he just smokes one or two cigarettes a day but don't tell mom I told you. She would kill him. I kinda hope I am in his condition, health wise when I get in my 70's. Hell his mom is still live. Grand Dad is gone but he was 45 years older than Granny when they narried. (Yes 45 yrs) You all know I am originally from West Virginia. He was cast out of the family for marring outside the family. Ha Ha Lil hillbilly joke there. Or was it? Anyway hang tough.

Well gonna go burn a Romeo & Julieta Reserve now.(actually gunna burn it at lunch time)

Dirty Steve.............

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 15:49:36 (ZULU)

Bolt,

It will get better as time passes. I went cold turkey after 45 years of Lucky Strikes. ;o( Docter told me to quit smoking when he put in a stent. Said I would be back in about two years if I didn't quit. I actually did not hear him say that; but my wife did. Two years later, while still burning 2 or 3 packs a day, I flunked my stress test. After the triple by-pass I heard him loud and clear! The cravings still hit on rare occassions; but they don't last. It has been over five years and I still haven't had one.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 16:42:12 (ZULU)

For the physical apperance of "Bob the Nailer" I would have chosen either, Billy Bob Thornton or Clint Eastwood.

However Danial Craig of the current James Bond movies may have had the "MOVIE" apperance and the attitude.

bomac
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 16:52:06 (ZULU)

Pretty nice Rem. 700 Long Action thumbhole stock going too cheap. Click.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 17:18:33 (ZULU)

Billy Bob would have been perfect.

Bolt! Regarding the smoking thing.

If your still breathing good, be very thankful.

I stopped last July, then I developed this breathing difficulty, for months. Bad coughing etc..

I thought to myself, shit if only I stopped earlier.

Well, long story short, the congestion turned out to be an allergy thing. I thought it was lung scarring, chronic bronchitis, or any of quite a few nasty things. It's not bad all all now relatively, comes and goes with the seasons I guess (never used to have anything like that at all) Had a chest xray, everything is fine and clear.

The point being, stop now while you can still save your breath. You don't someday want to be on oxygen or fighting for air. You would regret it the rest of your life.

Just breathe! And feel good about it.

Doug sickels
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 17:38:10 (ZULU)

Doug...

>"The point being, stop now while you can still save your breath. You don't someday want to be on oxygen or fighting for air. You would regret it the rest of your life."<

Ju got that right - my mom carried one of those oxygen bottles everywhere she went for the last ten years of her life, And had to sleep with oxygen tubes connected to her nose - BADD way to die!

Only person that deserves to die like that is Sarah Bradey !!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 18:15:08 (ZULU)

5'7'' not that short,Im 5'7".I like my height.

Jon Kujawa
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 18:45:12 (ZULU)

Jk -

" 5'7" not that short, I'm 5'7". I like my height."

Not a damn thing wrong with being 5'7" Jon!

But you wouldn't fit playing the role of Bob the Nailer either ;))

ALAN
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 19:42:06 (ZULU)

Alan,

Just got my barreled action back for my M40 project. I may shoot it before I send it off to be parkerized to see how it shoots. Its a good thing its getting parkerized because the barrel is a little on the rough side.

I had a new smith do this one and before the other smiths have always polished out the barrels when they come with a rough outside finish, he didn't. It was damn quick turnaround though I sent it out to him last friday and got it back today!!! I will keep you posted. Once again thanks for all your help on this project!!!

Pat
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 20:19:07 (ZULU)

I feel much better about Nancy Pelosi's trip to Syria now that I know Jimmy Carter backs it.

We are so screwed.

Lito, my father had a horrible last 10 years or so also. Fighting for each breath, oxygen 24/7. Hear this Bolt? You can do it!

I made a resolution to myself that when the first nuke goes off in anger, I'm gonna smoke a cigar and possibly continue.

doug sickels
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 20:35:57 (ZULU)

Doug:

Of course, if you're anywhere near detonating nukes, smoking will probably be the least of your problems :-)

Earlier discussion in rec.guns for casting the "Bob the Nailer" role favoured Tommy Lee Jones. Right attitude, right accent, even right age for a VN vet (born in 1946).

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000169/

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 21:42:18 (ZULU)

Back from Tulsa gun show...Wow what a good show! Now it's time to plow into the Spring ASC........................

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 22:05:41 (ZULU)

CDC...Buy Wilson Mags and don't look back..I'M using some that have to be twenty years old and are still just fine; and, they work in any of my guns...For whatever reason, the only other mags I've ever owned that are as reliable as Wilson's are a bunch of satin nickle Colt mags purchased in the late '70s. Don't know who made them for Colt but they are really good.......

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 22:25:20 (ZULU)

Pat -

I think that most 'smiths would have either polished or bead blasted the barrel before sending it back to you just to get rid of the marks left by the barrel vise, etc., but what the heck, the turnaround time was great and the metal finisher will want to media blast it before Parkerizing anyway. I hope it shoots well for you.

Be sure to keep us posted on its progress. It's a fun project, isn't it?

Bolt -

You can do it! I had been smoking Pall Mall straights for 23 years and finally quit back in 1983. Haven't had even one cigarette since! It was kinda tough at first, but I learned not to change anything while I was going through the withdrawal. Went to the same bars on Friday nights with my buds, only I didn't light up while guzzling my beer. Drank lots of coffee every morning like I always did, only I didn't accompany it with a smoke.

Ate breakfast, lunch, and dinner the same as always, only I didn't have a smoke afterwards. Same for sex ;))

It's so worth it. You'll live much longer, and when you finally croak it won't be with an oxygen hose up your nose sucking for breath like you were 50 feet underwater. And, after a short while, you'll be able to go up and down that elk mountain like you haven't been able to since you can't remember when.

ALAN
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 22:31:14 (ZULU)

Rod, I don't care if I'm 12,000 miles from a 1 kiloton with the wind in my favor. Long as it's part of an agression scheme, I'm smokin'.

Click my name for another head buster photograph, if you think you can stomach it.

doug sickels
Friday, April 6, 2007, at 01:11:36 (ZULU)

Doug,

Whats so surprising about that photo of Pelosi shaking hands with the President of Syria? The only thing missing is her burka. We all know that the looney left wing liberals absolutely love the enemies of America. Jimmy Carter has never met a dictator he just didn't love. Pelosi openly hates President Bush, but is all giggles when she meets our enemies. The bottom line is that all of the whacko liberals, and their lying media are corrupt beyond comparison. They have set a new standard for treason, and not many people seem to give a damn anymore.

Bolt,

I quit smoking several times. I finally realized that the reasons I failed previously is because I didn't really want to quit. I was doing it because: it was the right thing, or somebody else wanted me to. When I finally quit because I wanted to there was never a question of success. But I only smoked for ten years. I weened myself off the cigs, booze, and coffee. It took me about a month or so if I recall. Been almost 30yrs since I had a smoke, or been drunk. I work the night shift, and sometimes have a coffee if I get held over past quitting time. You can do it too.

Best regards,

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 02:29:34 (ZULU)

A high level Iranian agent is released by our ally and two days later Iran "forgives" 15 Brit hostages. Just a coincidence. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Kissing that little fanatic's ass will just give us a bigger fight later. The Turks have a saying; "Kill a snake while it is small."

It ain't getting any smaller.

markwell: Wilson 8-rounders have served me well, but high end Kimbers for $75 per 5 is a hard deal to pass up.

CDC'
Friday, April 6, 2007, at 04:11:00 (ZULU)

Bolt,

Smoked for 35 years and went cold turkey on Jan 1st, 1998. Haven't had one since. It was kinda tough for a while but I did it. The real pisser is I wound up with lung cancer in 2004. But it looks like I'm beatin' that too. Quit before it's too late. Just takes some will power.

CDC,

Ditto on the Wilson mags. Can't beat 'em.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 05:15:00 (ZULU)

Looking at that dried-up old douchebag, I'm of a mind to think that the reason she's got that big, scatological grin on her face is that Asshat is probably the biggest dick she's ever had that tight a grip on in her whole life. Assuming, of course, that she's ever actually known anyone that has one. Sheesh. I'm gonna go reread 'Term Limits' by Vince Flynn.....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 05:40:39 (ZULU)

We grabbed an Iranian operative in Iraq. Iran grabbed 15 Brits and offered a trade. We took it.

Net result: Iran can operate all they want in Iraq.

How's that going to work.

CDC'
Friday, April 6, 2007, at 13:56:00 (ZULU)

Krauthammer says the same thing. Great minds? Not really. If we see it, everybody else does too.

We backed down from a nothing little school-yard bully and the whole world watched.

We should have...

...it doesn't matter. We didn't.

CDC'
Friday, April 6, 2007, at 14:40:27 (ZULU)

Pelosi violated the Logan Act. Most "ethical administration"? I think not. She is now a felon. Time for an investigation, trial and removal. Tom Delay had to resign for less. Every time that bitch smiles, she looks like a 'possum passing a peach pit.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 15:12:49 (ZULU)

"Smiling like a possum passing a peach pit" You got me laughing so hard I'm gagging.

doug sickels
Friday, April 6, 2007, at 16:56:57 (ZULU)

Charles,

Logan Act? Never heard of it. When was that passed? Gonna have to see if I can find it online.

All liberals think they are the most ethical people on earth. Anyone that would dare challenge the liberal opinion will be labeled as a right wing whacko by the corrupt liberal media. It probably doesn't matter if Pelosi violated the Logan Act, or has committed a felony, because the media won't ever report anything to harm her. She's of the protected elite class. She could personally deliver plutonium to the terrorists, and would still have support of her liberal base. Bill Clinton transferred top secret missile technology to the Chinese, and he's still adored by the liberal whackos. The media never said anything of substance about that either.

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 20:57:12 (ZULU)

OK brief synopsis of the Logan Act. Pretty interesting!

§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply himself, or his agent, to any foreign government, or the agents thereof, for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

18 U.S.C. § 953 (2004).

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 21:25:52 (ZULU)

Had a backset at 5 days, 4 hours and roughly thirty minutes (about an hour ago). Really crappy day. Went out on the deck and took three drags off one and then put it out. Tasted like crap.......not that great taste that I used to get......must be a side effect of the meds. Now an hour later and I'm beating myself up for letting myself down. But, over 5 days with only three drags versus the 10 packs I would have normally smoked is at least a small victory.

I'm learning alot about this medicine from many successful quitters that used it.

First, don't follow the instructions. Go at least two full weeks before the quit date, especially if you're a large person.

Second, time your doses to coincide with the times you enjoyed smoking the most minus about an hour and a half. That will put the drug in the blood stream when it needs to be there.

Third, you have to eat something, even if it is a couple of pieces of bread when you take the pills + drink lots of water or other liquids.

Lastly, the stuff WILL work, I'm almost proof of this. I didn't want to quit and only had motivation because the hospital went tobacco free on the entire campus. I'm now wanting to quit and finding it 1000 times easier than my last 11 tries with all other methods. With the exception of this setback, the meds take care of most of the anxiety and waves of craving that I have had. I also learned that it is better NOT to use nicotine supplements.

Compared to Zyban/Wellbutrin this stuff has no side effects except for nausea if you don't eat something. I haven't had any problems sleeping but I have been dreaming more than normal. Some of the dreams I have to say are pretty good! Plus, I have noticed that I'm smelling a few more things and spices really taste more spicey than they used to. One drawback on the smell thing is that farts REALLY stink.

Well my confession is over and it is good for the soul. Wish me continued luck and I appreciate your comments and support.

Bolt, trying to be a successful quitter (which makes no sense?) and out!

Bolt
Farts smell different..........in , NC, - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 22:50:11 (ZULU)

Hello All -

Long time since a post....

1. Snow in bound for Northern VA this weekend....ooookay... Ya- AlGore--- you're right on target - LOL.

2. Logan Act:

Scene1:

President Bush: (dials Pelosi's extension)

Pelosi Answers: Hello Mr. President

Bush: Nancy - hey - hope all's well with ya today. You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be......"

Scene2:

Bush: (dials Jimmy Carter's phone)

Jimmy: Yeyass Mistuh President

Bush: Jimmy - If your name appears in print or on a travel manifest in any way to appear or speak in any fashion - I will have you arrested and charged with treason. Think I'm kidding - Here's Nancy's number xxx.xxx.xxx"

3. CDC: An item that scares me about our electoral system - is that the power of stupidity is reaching critical mass... or @ least the passive non-stupid are allowing them to reach critical mass....

4. Any of you Hawgs out there have .41 Magnum stuff, bullets, parts, etc - firearms as well - hit me via email..... (why - cuz I like it - that's why).

5. Bolt: Stay with it friend -- that Grandbaby needs a mentor - Your country needs you at your best.

I guess I'm in a rambling mood today.... time for a rifle raffle anyway....

Take care all - Have a BLESSED Easter Weekend...

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 00:33:35 (ZULU)

Sniper stuff on History Channel..............

Bolt
Screw em all except Fox News Network!, NC, - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 01:02:24 (ZULU)

"like a Opossum passing a peach pit" Dammit, that's funny, especially since I opened the front door last week to go to work and surprised one on the front porch. Come to think of it, it did look alot like Nancy.

Ken, I saw one of the rifles you'll be raffling off for Americansnipers.org last week. It's really sweet. Of course, we'll have to test fire it for accuracy. :)

Do any of you use suppressors on your precision rifles? Do you have mirage problems after about 3 or 4 rounds? Check out the video of the suppressor covers I make. A customer posted the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UECsUQD2a5U

YouTube - Rapid Fire Test of the PDC AR-10 SASS

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America, what's it to ya! - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 01:25:56 (ZULU)

Bolt

It sounds like your fighting the quiting thing. Most times I guess, when people quit, they have some kind of scare. When you fight the quitting thing, it might be coming from outside sources, not that I'm any kind of expert but is it being pressured on you?

I'm not trying to get personal or be a psychologist but thats my take on it. If I was being somehow pressured to quit... it ain't gonna happen. If it's my decision it's a different thing.

Anyway I'm rootin' for you. Remember some of the earlier posts from everyone here.

Hang in there.

It may sound funny, but one of my inspirations for quitting was my dog, Jake.

Sometimes I'd be sitting around with him and admire the fact that he doesn't need anything else. He's just happy doin' what he does. Staying by my side, looking everything, just happy to be there as is. And the thought that even on my death bed, he could make me feel good.

And I didn't want it to come to that, at least because of smoking.

Anyway, we care here at Sniper Country.

Not only that but what if you have to chase down one of these muslim bastards? You gotta have the wind to do it.

That thought of Nancy Pelosi smiling looks like a possum passing a peach pit cracked me up all day, it still does, I gotta thank you for that.

doug sickels
Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 02:09:21 (ZULU)

Bolt, Don't Quit, quitting! That would make you a >>>>> Um, Quitter? Stick to it.

Bad thing about the farts stinkin more. But from now on spending a weekend with the guys you will be qualified to judge the stinky fart contest that will take place at some point.

Dirty Steve...............

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 07:38:23 (ZULU)

Reloading country - priming

I'm looking at using a hand-primer for my .308 Win reloading.

I would like a system that doesn't require that I handle individual primers and doesn't require sitting at the reloading bench.

I'm using the press-mounted Lee Auto-Prime II system at the moment.

I'm considering the handheld Lee AUTO-PRIME product.

Sinclair International sell it, they normally don't sell junk.

Experiences, thoughts?

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1175946350.2931=/html/catalog/primtool.html

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 12:50:20 (ZULU)

I have one of Tony's can covers on the suppressor of my AI. It rocks - and it has a very high CDI factor.

His rifle covers are excellent, too. Simple, easy-on easy-off, but protects the rifle from wind-blown dirt and, as some of the winter ASC competitors discovered, snow.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 12:52:08 (ZULU)

rod r.,

I've used a hand type Lee auto-prime as long as I've been reloading. It has never given me any problems. When or if it ever wears out I'll go buy another.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The frigid Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 13:24:17 (ZULU)

rod regier: I've used the Lee tool for 180 years. It isn't made to the standards of one of the high $$$ tools, but it does the job. A few suggestions;

Check around for prices. D&R or Midsouth are good places to start.

Lube the Lee tool with a little graphite powder. If you don't, the plastic tends to gall against the plated metal.

Buy two. When one dies - or when you need parts - you won't have to wait around.

If you are going to load both small and large primers, buy a tool for each.

If you don't have a BIG flipper tray, buy one. Dillon's is good.

Tweezers are handy.

Pay attention to how each primer goes into the little feed slot. Sometimes they flip and you seat a primer upside down. PITA.

Be nice to it and it will last a long time, but it isn't as durable as it could be.

CDC'
Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 13:34:01 (ZULU)

Scopes:

Stumbled across Zeiss riflescopes being sold thru AMAZON.COM.

This looked interesting:

http://www.amazon.com/Zeiss-3-5-10x44mm-Conquest-Rifle-BlackMODEL/dp/B000LJUSXO/ref=sr_1_24/104-1134257-9335909?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1175949271&sr=1-24

Zeiss 3.5-10x44mm MC Conquest Rifle Scope Matte BlackMODEL: Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44 MC Rifle Scope Matte Black w/ ZRF Reticle Model 5214209958

you adjust windage and elevation with a finger's touch, and without wasting time fishing for a coin or tool. With Zeiss' quick focus...

$US650 (Optics Planet is ultimate retailer).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 13:41:19 (ZULU)

Lebanon's "Daily Star" on Pelosi's fatuous grandstanding:

"We can thank the US speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, for having informed Syrian President Bashar Assad, from Beirut, that "the road to solving Lebanon's problems passes through Damascus." Now, of course, all we need to do is remind Pelosi that the spirit and letter of successive United Nations Security Council resolutions, as well as Saudi and Egyptian efforts in recent weeks, have been destined to ensure precisely the opposite: that Syria end its meddling in Lebanese affairs.

"Pelosi embarked on a fool's errand to Damascus this week, and among the issues she said she would raise with Assad - when she wasn't on the Lady Hester Stanhope tour in the capital of imprisoned dissidents Aref Dalila, Michel Kilo, and Anwar Bunni - is "the role of Syria in supporting Hamas and Hizbullah." What the speaker doesn't seem to have realized is that if Syria is made an obligatory passage in American efforts to address the Lebanese crisis, then Hizbullah will only gain. Once Assad is re-anointed gatekeeper in Lebanon, he will have no incentive to concede anything, least of all to dilettantes like Pelosi, on an organization that would be Syria's enforcer in Beirut if it could re-impose its hegemony over its smaller neighbor."

CDC'
Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 14:25:35 (ZULU)

" rod regier: I've used the Lee tool for 180 years. It isn't made to the standards of one of the high $$$ tools, but it does the job. A few suggestions;..."

Damn Dan I know you were a senior member of the board, but reloading for 180 years, WOW, that is a long time!!

LOL

Jerry

Jerry
Annapolis, MD, USA! - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 14:57:07 (ZULU)

CDC:

Appreciate the review of the Lee Auto Prime.

Most of the US firearms accessories suppliers won't ship even tools to Canada these days, they don't want to deal with any possible issues on the ITAR rules. Midsouth today has a complicated process for orders and payment for even non-ITAR sales:

International Orders

All international orders must be faxed to us with signature!

We cannot ship liquids or aerosols except in pallet quantities by ocean freight only. Barrels, bullets, brass, powders, primers, ammunition, muzzleloaders, air guns and frames are all regulated by United States export laws. There may also be other regulated merchandise in your country. All of these items require an import license from your country and we must also apply for a license to export to you. All import and export license must have exact information (in English) and a minimum of $300.00 U.S.D. for us to apply for an export license.

Example (must be exact information):

specific manufacturer

specific model

part number

complete and full description

quantities

shipping arrangements

Please contact your local post office for further restrictions. There is no freight issued on return goods. Most repairs and or replacements are via manufacturer. All fees for customs are the responsibility of the customer. All money transactions must be through a U.S. bank and in U.S. dollars. International orders will be shipped by Postal Service, UPS or Federal Express (FedEx). To expedite delivery, FedEx may not charge you tax, customs, and duty fees at the time of delivery. You will see a separate charge for these on your credit card after FedEx notifies us of these amounts.

All international orders must be filled out on Midsouth's order form, signed and faxed. After reviewing your order we will determine whether we will accept a credit card payment. If we cannot, you can make arrangements for other payment methods. You may send wire transfers to:

Regions Bank

2155 Lowes Drive

P.O. Box 30277

Clarksville, TN 37041

Account #: 3601286770

Routing Transit#: 062005690

Swift/BIC Address: UPNBUS44

World Outdoor Resources, LLC.

Clarksville, TN

Due to the high volume of credit card fraud, it becomes necessary for us to take these precautions with a longer procedure, and allows us to provide our low prices. As an older customer, you will probably have no trouble paying with a credit card. New customers will need to either pay with a money order or cashiers check in U.S. funds or a wire transfer to our account for a period of one year. Once the order has been received, we will try to determine the best way to ship the items you have requested. You will be contacted with the quote. There will be a 10% paper work & filing fee on all orders. This fee will not exceed $20.00 USD. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

The other issue is that trans-border shipping is painful if UPS is used as the carrier. There are good alternatives, but most US suppliers have a UPS fetish because it is a nice domestic solution.

A bitter joke among Canadian residents dealing with US suppliers:

"If you want it in the worse possible way, have it shipped UPS, the worse possible way."

Fortunately, I have Canadian retailers who deal in Lee products, including Higginson Powders who have discounted pricing on Lee products that are very competitive with the US source places like Midsouth, etc. They are the Canadian distributor for Lee Precision.

http://www.higginsonpowders.com/pages/934272/index.htm

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 15:41:38 (ZULU)

Guys,

Just listed a buttload of BRAND NEW holsters, duty belts, a NEW T/C walnut stock, and other stuff in the emporium. Prices are OBO. I got a bunch of stuff from a gunshop closeout off of E-bay. If I make enough, I'm finally gonna get a good scope or rangefinder!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 16:21:17 (ZULU)

Hawgs -

Some fairly new industry developments (at least they're new to me) -

Remington Arms Co. has very recently been sold to a group of captial venture people. I figured this might inject some new money and thinking into a company that has been floundering.

The bad news is - they intend to keep the old management team intact!

Hornady is manufacturing a 208 (or is it 207?) grain .30 caliber A-Max bullet that is supposed to be all over the 210SMK at the longer ranges. Any of you Hawgs had a chance to try it out yet?

The Nikon Tactical scope lineup that has been off the market for awhile has been reintroduced as the "Monarch X". Street prices are supposed to be lower than the older lineup.

The new Bushnell 4200 Elite Tactical 6-24x50 SF 30mm scope is now available from several sources. I've seen in-stock quoted prices as low as $525.

Loopy has catalogued their 8.5-25x50mm Mk4 LR/T M1 scope in a FFP (front focal plane) reticle version for 2007. I've got no idea of their pricing as I don't intend to buy any new Leupold's unless things drastically change :(

ALAN
Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 00:03:10 (ZULU)

175SMK vs Milk Jug

I set up some milk jugs at 650 yards yesterday. Using the 175SMK in the 308, I was disappointed when there was no dramatic explosion of water when I hit a jug. The bullets passed through, only causing a 2” split on one side of the jug. It didn’t even tip over the jug. The jug drained out and the other shots passed through air. I now have personal experience that the SMK meets the Geneva convention requirements as a non-expanding bullet.

Scott Smith
Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 02:16:19 (ZULU)

ALAN,

The Hornady 208 grain A-Max (.648 b.c.) does very well in a .300WSM being pushed by 68 grains of RL22. Have only shot it at 600 but had damn good results. I haven't had a chance to chrono the load but (if I haven't screwed up my scope somehow or lost track of where things are) based on comeups I'm getting close to 3200fps out of 'em. Hopefully, I'll have a chance on Monday to get a verified m.v. and let you know.

Everybody have a Happy Easter.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 05:27:33 (ZULU)

Scott:

Martin Fackler discussed using a small drill bit to slightly open the tips of the 168g SMK's to improve terminal performance if that is useful to you. Contra-indicated for serving military.

http://bajaarizona.org/fklr/fklr.html

"Dr. Martin L. Fackler, in the same issue of the journal, reported that these bullets will commonly break up after 7 inches of penetration. His experiments indicated that when the cavity was increased in diameter to 0.055 inch by a drill, reliable expansion was obtained after penetrating less than one inch of 10% gelatin or muscle. Recent controlled testing has demonstrated that this alteration degrades accuracy by no more than 0.1 MOA - an insignificant amount."

It's actually the Hague Conventions that establish rules for small arms ammunition performance in armed conflicts.

http://www.thegunzone.com/hague.html

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 08:15:47 (ZULU)

New Bob Lee Swagger novel (by Stephen Hunter) in the pipeline!

"The 47th Samurai"

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0743238095/sportsreccommuni

11-Sep-2007 sched release date

author Stephen Hunter commented on the upcoming Bob Lee Swagger novel "The 47th Samurai" during a live Washington Post online chat on March 27, 2007:

Stephen Hunter: Why, I'm glad you asked. Yes, the new book is a result of my well-documented (in WaPo) absorbtion in Samurai movie culture. It's called "The 47th Samurai: A Bob Lee Swagger novel," and it takes Bob to Japan in search of the sword his father recovered on Iwo that has gone missing under extremely violent circumstances. He finds himself matched against some totally bad but cool yakuza killers and the action jumps all over Tokyo. It ends with what I had hoped to be (you guys will have to tell me if I brought it off) the coolest, most realisitc one-on-one to the death sword fight in print. The book is from S&S in September.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 09:04:06 (ZULU)

jc -

Thanks for the info. I've got to admit that 3200 MV sounds a bit optimistic for that load, but I'll reserve judgement until you get a chance to chrono it. Please let us know the results. I've got a .300WM Sharpshooter II in need of an upgrade from its usual 190SMK diet.

rod regier -

Oh no! Not another chop-socky epic! With the commercial success of Shooter they're most likely already negotiating the screen rights for this Samauri novel. Let me guess - Quentin Tarrantino is probably the front runner. Probably change the title to "Kill Bob" ;)

Did I say how much I hate this chop-socky drivel? To put it mildly, I'll take a pass on this one!

ALAN
Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 16:59:04 (ZULU)

Alan:

At least you know in advance. I'm guessing SH wanted a break in the gunfight epics.

No comment on tne release date? (which I think is just co-incidence).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 19:25:05 (ZULU)

I suspect that Leupold made their 8.5-25x50mm the next Leupold FFP scope, after the 3.5-10X40M3, to compete with the Schmidt & Bender 5-25X56 PMII - which, of course, it doesn't, except to people unwilling to pony up the valuta for the S&B, but with price increases in the Leupold line, the S&Bs seem to be selling pretty well.

And the trouble is that just as the FFP is a waste in the 3.5-10, because the power is too small, it's a waste in the 8.5-25, because the power is too high for a fighting scope.

However, since I own two Leupold 6.5-20X50M1 scopes with Premier FFP GenII reticles, and one 4.5-14X50M1 with Premier FFP GenII reticle, I don't much care. The Gen II is notably superior to either a straight mildot or the TMR anyway.

The 4.5-14 is a superior power range for either military or police sniping, if they can't make a scope with a 4:1 zoom range - and one wonders why not, since both S&B and U.S. Optics do better than that.

Perhaps they don't take the military and police tactical market seriously.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 19:46:18 (ZULU)

Anyone have a CZ550 Safari? Opinions? I'm looking into getting a 416 Rigby and this looks like the best choice for the $. I'd consider rebarreling a Sako TRG-S, but why bother when I can get a factory CZ. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 20:35:26 (ZULU)

Lindy, while my current old eyes support your rule that 3.5-10 is too low for FFP reticle use, just a couple of years ago these worked fine for me. I still think the FFP Reticle has a place in military circles where guys have good eyes.

Alan, the new prices form Leupold left me going "How much"? They make an excellent scope but the price is nearly double what it was less than ten years ago. The company tends to cycle between bean counters and shooters. This time I think bean counters have the helm. Thats too bad for all of us.

Undude/Mike

MikeMiller
Ca, - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 21:02:15 (ZULU)

Click. This ought to piss you off. Crazy Bitch!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 21:31:09 (ZULU)

Ken M -

A good friend bought a CZ550 Safari in .505 Gibbs last summer in anticipation of an African trip. So far, all that he's been doing with it is working up some loads to take on the hunt. He says that he likes the rifle and hasn't mentioned anything in particular that bothers him about it. This guy also has CZ magnum action based rifles in .338 Lapua and one of the big Lazzeroni's (I forget which).

Is there anything specific that you want to know about his? I'll be happy to ask and get back with you. I either talk to him on the phone or shoot with him several times a week. I'll have to be the middle man on this, 'cause he's purposely computer illiterate. Probably all that recoil ;))

Mike -

Yeah, I've got to agree with you about the bean counters at Leupold. What they've been up to for the last couple of years just might hurt the company real bad. But maybe not! We're a real small segment of their market. Perhaps they just don't give a damn. On the other hand, I don't think that any company can survive forever in todays consumer oriented marketplace with that kind of attitude. Just look at Ford and GM for an example.

I used to buy Loopys, and still own five REAL Mk4's, a Premier LR M3 3.5-10, and a MR/T 3-9 that's on my SPR. But that's it! My last purchases have been two NXS's and a Nikon. And there's another purchase coming up this summer, and it won't be a Leupold. They really should be looking back over their shoulders, 'cause the competition is breathing down their necks.

rod regier -

I never even thought to connect Hunter's release date with 9/11. Doesn't seem to be any relevence there, probably just a coincidence.

Happy Easter everyone!

ALAN
Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 21:52:52 (ZULU)

Alan, I'm just looking at general build quality, fit and finish, that sort of thing. What was the trigger like from the factory? How is the action WRT smoothness and slop at the end of it's travel? And so forth...

For under $1000, I'm certainly not expecting a Dakota, but I'd like to get an idea before I order one. I think I may have to get rid of my Jap-Win 1886 takedown rifle in order to make space for this one, so I more interested than usual. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 22:02:05 (ZULU)

Alan,

What's wrong with Fords cutomer service? I had a wheel bearing go out under warranty. They fixed it. Same wheel bearing went out a month later while my wife was on a long trip by herself. I contacted Ford they send the reciept to us. I sent the reciept for they repair and the rental car. They sent a check covering both.

I had a Dogde less than 500 miles out of warranty. The transmission went out. Called Dodge they said they would be happy to fix it for $3,500. Said screw them. Fixed it at another shop. Talked to my nieghbor who is a service rep for Ford. She said same thing happened to her Dodge and she got the same response. She said Ford would have fixed it for 500 bucks. She now drives a Ford too.

Dity Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 22:20:43 (ZULU)

Ken M: I've fondled one some. Looks like any other CZ, which is good. Comes to the eye and balances nicely. Stock configuration looks as if it would distribute recoil less painfully than the Winchester. Can't beat the price. The .458 Lott sorely tempts me but would be hard to sneak past the warden.

I shot a few shots through one of the "Baby" series of Brno/CZs in .460 G&A, which is very similar to the Lott. Someone snapped a photo of me a split second after touching it off. I was doing a wheelie.

Beautiful rig but three or four shots was plenty of fun for one day.

Dirty Steve: My brothers and I have had bad Dodges, Fords and - most especially - Chevys. I've never had a bad Toyota.

CDC'
Monday, April 9, 2007, at 03:53:54 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve -

Read my post again! I never mentioned customer service. Not even once. Customer service is what you need when your shit breaks! Good shit rarely breaks, and never breaks the same thing twice ;) What I was talking about is the well known fact that neither Ford or General Motors, or Chrysler Corp. for that matter, have been responsive to the consumers needs in their new products for decades. Just look at their latest loss statements for a good idea of what's been going on. The American automobile buyer has grown up, and is no longer duped by the phony patriotic hogwash that's been puked out at them on the radio, TV, and print ads in a vain attempt to convince tham to accept inferior products for the sake of national loyalty. Baseball, Hot Dogs, Apple Pie and Chevrolet - HA! The Heartbeat of America? More like the Heartbreak of America! Domestic vehicle customer satisfaction on new vehicle purchases, frequency of repair records, and sub-par resale values point to why our manufacturers are losing their asses to the competition.

Not that it makes me happy. No, not one bit! I'm a former partner in a Ford dealership, where my position of Director of Fixed Operations afforded me a unique opportunity to see the inside of the automobile business in a way that very few others ever get a glimpse of. Before that I was the Service Manager of two VW, Porsche, Audi dealerships. The Director of Fixed Operations is responsible for the service and parts departments, along with all of the facilities that are not directly part of the sales department. The service, parts, and facility maintenance managers all reported to me. I am also accepted in the State courts of both Colorado and Utah as an expert witness in the area of motor vehicle service, and have held an ASE Master Technician certificate since 1974.

I'm not about to get into a Ford vs. Chevy type of thing. That's as ridiculous as arguing Remington vs. Winchester! All I was trying to point out is that Leupold is not being responsive to many of its potential customers and has been pricing itself out of the market while its competition has been catching up - and surpassing them - in the area of quality and features for the dollar because Loopy is driven by the bean counters. Much in the way that our domestic auto makers are getting their asses kicked by companies like Toyota and Honda.

If you want some insight into what has happened to our domestic automobile industry I suggest that you read "On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors" by John Delorean. He wrote this book during the time he was being groomed for the job of President of General Motors after he brought the Pontiac Motor Division from the brink of ruin to number two in sales next to Chevrolet in a short few years, and published it just as he walked out on what many considered to be the most promising career ever seen in the business. Enlightening.

Yes, I've got some mighty strong opinions about the automobile business and what's wrong with it, and I'd be glad to discuss them (or debate them) with you but is this the place? Let the Hawgs decide!

Ken M -

I'll get in touch with my friend tomorrow and ask him about his thoughts on the CZ's. I wonder about the $1000 price tag that you mentioned. IIRC, his Safari .505 Gibbs ran about double that. But it's pretty fancy. I'll get the details and post them ASAP.

ALAN
Monday, April 9, 2007, at 05:48:43 (ZULU)

I have a CZ550 (FS) in .308. The metal is good, but the wood is poor - ugly and knotty (so bad it is weird). Mine cracked behind the recoil lug, and it is not uncommon. It also had filler in the knot holes. I understand that the magnums now have a cross-bolt behind the lug.

You can get a laminate Boyd's stock for the CZ550 Magnums. And McMillian makes CZ stocks.

That is my only criticism, based on a sample of one. Some people get great stocks. I didn't. When I called the company (US office) they seemed to know what I was talking about, because they said the replacement stocks were the same.

In general, CZ gives you a lot of gun for the money. (I have nothing bad to say about their 9mm or .22s - great bargains.)

P. Hayden
USA - Monday, April 9, 2007, at 07:13:22 (ZULU)

From ALAN

>>>>Hawgs -

>>>>>Some fairly new industry developments (at least they're new to >>>>>me) -

>>>>>Remington Arms Co. has very recently been sold to a group of >>>>>captial venture people. I figured this might inject some new >>>>>money and thinking into a company that has been floundering.

>>>>>The bad news is - they intend to keep the old management team >>>>>intact!"

Here one story......

(((((Remington Arms Sold

United Mine Workers member Dan Bass says that, from what he understands, at this point there should be no effect on any of the workers.

Ilion's largest employer is being sold. The gun maker Remington Arms announced late this morning that it's selling the company which has a plant with 750 employees in Ilion. Workers were told about the sale this morning.

The corporation that owns Remington Arms has sold it for a whopping $370 million to an affiliate of Cerberus Capital Management, a leading private investment firm.

Ilion Mayor Mark Cushman says, "Remington is a vital part of our community and we welcome the new owners into the village of Ilion...and I can assure them as Ilion's Mayor, that I'm going to do whatever I can to ensure their continued success".

Company officials say they expect the sale to be a done deal by June of this year.))))))

Heard all that but, have you heard.....

Taurus buying colt?

And, not just the handgun div. like some have thought. They will also buy the mil. rifle division.

Jim B.
AZ, You cant win the hearts and minds of the heartless and mindless - Monday, April 9, 2007, at 08:33:05 (ZULU)

Jim B -

Very interesting news about Taurus buying Colt! I thought that Colt Defense LLC was part of General Dynamics. I'd like to hear more about that proposed buyout. Do you have a link?

More about the Remington buyout -

The same company that now owns Remington bought Bushmaster in 2006. Rumor has it that there will be a Remington branded AR15 in the works soon, and that Remington will be going after the US military contracts now held by FN and Colt. Interesting times ahead ......

ALAN
Monday, April 9, 2007, at 15:17:43 (ZULU)

Alan,

Sorry about reading into your post. You have alot of insight into that area. I would like to see more diesel cars out there. Or a diesel 1/2 ton truck geared for fuel milage and not set up to tow the world. "Winchester Vs Remington?" I would choose Savage. HA ;)

CDC,

I would love to get another Toyota. I had one in the past and it was great. It was at a point in my life when I could really tear crap up. But couldn't do it to the Toy. I drove it once form Tucson to Raleigh with the front hubs locked in. I didn't notice till some where in Tennesse. The thing were to hot to touch. So I left them alone and drove on. Had the vehicle another 5 yeears and never had a problem result from that. Ok, I never had any problem with the thing. If I didn't need to tow a 4 horse trailer I would have another right now.

Don't anyone get me started on the buy American thing. Ok, I'm started. I was looking for rubber soled Cowboy boots. I was told that every single one is made in freaking Chinkland or some place close by it. Except H&H boots, they are made here. I tried them on and thought they would do. But I was wrong I now have a set of uncomfortable boots that were made here. I'm going back to Ariat boots. We can still get good Tony Lamas with leather soles made here, but nothing with a rubber sole. That just chaps my hind parst somethin ferece.

Bolt, How are you hanging in the Buddy? I know the weekend may have been tough.

Dirty Steve...............

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Monday, April 9, 2007, at 17:30:18 (ZULU)

Ken M -

I just got done talking to my friend with the CZ 550 Safari .505 Gibbs. He told me that he had to special order his at the cost of almost $2500 in order to get that specific caliber. It's supposed to be a custom deluxe model or something, and judging from the fancy wood and the polished metal finish I can see why. It's shooting 2MOA groups, but he's having a difficult time finding different bullets to work up loads with.

According to him it feeds flawlessly and the single-set trigger is very nice. The bolt operates pretty slick, but he claims that it's not as nice as his four other CZ actions, which are the earlier European versions of the 550 Magnum that were known as the Brno ZKK 602 series. They have single stage triggers and safteys that are reversed from the 550. He says that to him the machining is nicer on the older ones, but there's nothing wrong with the 550. All things considered, he likes his 550 Safari and would buy it again.

His ZKK 602's are in .338 Lapua, .338 Lazzeroni, .30 Lazzeroni, and a .350 wildcat on a .338 RUM case, all with Lilja barrels and built on McMillan stocks. All have the CZ dropped bottom metal. Scope rings are Warne QD's, B-Square Lynx, and factory CZ's. He says that he prefers the B-Square rings to the others.

That's about all the info that I got out of him today ;) Hope that it helps.

ALAN
Monday, April 9, 2007, at 20:11:11 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve....Try Whites Boots; they are killer to wear(and to buy).

Have a 1991 Toyota that survived my sons teenage years and his five years of travelling to Wyo. to guide..Finally relegated to local transport only and use as the ASC range truck until it ran out of poop and could no longer make the trip up the mountain. It still runs at 230,000+ miles and is waiting to be rebuilt by a friend I've given it to.

Still cold and snowing. The Dillons have been singing with this cold snap. Shouldn't have to load anything for quite a while.

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Monday, April 9, 2007, at 22:37:24 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve: I wore cowboy boots with oil-proof Vibram soles for years as motorcycle boots. Just take any pair that fits to a good shoe repair place, and tell them to replace the leather soles. That's what I did. 'T'aint cheap, but good boots which fit are worth quite a bit.

I never had any trouble finding those soles around Houston, where a lot of us oil-field trash hung out, but I'm sure any place could get those soles.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, April 9, 2007, at 23:14:44 (ZULU)

Yep, weekends are tougher to get through. I've got to get control of my eating binges. Damn I must have gained 10 pounds already. Good thing the weather is within a week of starting to till and plant the garden so I can get some honest excercise in. If it remotely looks like food I've eaten it. Hell, I was looking real hard at how good a leg of barbequed german shepard would look yesterday. I think she got the message and hauled ass. I'm setting here now looking at an empty box of Milk Bone Dog Biscuits. Jeezzzzz.......now I'm gonna die fat instead of smoked up. The honest to goodness worse time is between 17:00 18:00 when I get home from work and want to relax.

Enough of that crap. Hope to have my new barrel on my Remmy next week. Palma 95 contour finishing out at 32", 1/10 twist 308. Gonna see how fast I can push 190's and 210's, maybe even the new 208 Hornydee. I might not shoot good but this rifle will dang sure look good!

Over the last craving, Bolt out!

Bolt
Still kickin in......., NC, - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 00:14:07 (ZULU)

Any of you know anything about the Savage 765A shotguns? I have a question about one. Wether its' cocked, bolt locked back, or in battery, the trigger is clicking when it's past the "fire" position. I never got to go to trigger group school, so you'll have to get out your big fat crayon and draw me a picture. Thanks in advance!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 02:38:22 (ZULU)

Alan,

I was gonna chronograph some 208 AMAX loads today. Important range tip; If you plan to chronograph loads make sure you have an extra battery with you. Makes my butt wanna bite a hole in my underwear.

Also, I have a mea culpa about the velocity with the 208'. The 3200fps was for SMK 190's. Sorry, I had a senior moment. Best I can tell with the 208's based on the comeup for 600 is 2900fps. If the weather will cooperate tomorrow I will make another attempt at chronographing the 208's. With new batteries, of course. :-))

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 05:57:24 (ZULU)

Markwell,

Never heard of Whites Boots. Guess I'll do some research.

Lindy,

It's hard to find a good repair shop now days. Even here in Texas. Wish the place I knew, did not go out of biz. Of course it was harder on the owner, he died. Heck I have a buddy who can't get a saddle made. He has been waiting for about 4 months. Skilled crafts men are getting harder to find. At least those that work with leather are.

jc,

I once went to the range with out a gun. Haha. A guy offered to loan me one of his but I passed. It was Rob Leatham, up at Bianchi one year. Luckily I was at the practice range. He is a funny guy who can poke fun at himself. I saw him clean the plates. Then reload all his mags and went out to shoot for X's. Miss the first or second plate. Turned to the audience and said. Good thing I Loaded all these mags. The crowd laughed it up.

Bolt, U can do it!

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 06:19:15 (ZULU)

Whites Boots....800-541-3786 for the paper catalog or whitesboots.com for internet shopping..

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 11:43:09 (ZULU)

jc -

We all have moments like that. I figure that old age is still better than the alternative :)

I've gone to the range without a spare battery for my Oehler, when I knew that the old battery was in there for at least two years. I've forgotten my cleaning rod on a range trip when the purpose of the trip was a clean one and shoot one break-in session. Another time I forgot my bore guide on another break-in session, and the worst of all was when I forgot my ammo :(

So don't feel so bad.

Post those chrono results when you get a chance .

ALAN
Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 14:13:46 (ZULU)

Ok guys I need some help,And lito not that kind of help. I Just picked up a 1903 A3, I took apart and it has been packed with a brown like carmel goo.I think its cosmoline.Does anyone have any good ideas on how to remove it.

thanks

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 14:38:40 (ZULU)

Jon -

Yeah, it's Cosmoline. I've cleaned lots of CMP rifles. Use a solvent (mineral spirits) a stiff bristle brush and lots of elbow grease. If the stock is soaked in grease clean it and let it sit out in the sun until more grease comes to the surface of the wood and clean it again. Repeat as necessary.

ALAN
Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 15:02:23 (ZULU)

Alan

Is it ok to use solvents on the wood or should I use a wood cleaner?

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 15:24:15 (ZULU)

Jon,

You might also want to take a look at this:

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/cosmoline/index.asp

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The cloudy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 15:35:59 (ZULU)

Folks,

I hate to be the first to ask, but where is Joe M?

Mark

Mark Taylor
WV, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 16:04:20 (ZULU)

Doc,

that helps alot,I have a few good ways now.

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 17:30:51 (ZULU)

Markwell,

For those prices I would want to try them on before buying. I don't mind spending the money just for that price I want to make sure they fit. No damn dealers around here according to the site. I see they have a couple dealers in NM. I will check them out when I go out there. My wife is iat Fort Bliss so planning a trip to NM will be easy enough.

Anyone here shave with anything but a Trac2, Mach 4 or of type of main stream razors? I began to get pissed at compaies making more and more freaking blades on their razors. I mean draging one of thier razors across your face is like using a single blade 4 times. I just got pissed. I complained to my wife and she solved my moaning by ordering me some old time shaving stuff. I have started shaving with an old 1904 model safety razor. And I am thinking switching to using a straight razor. I get a better shave and don't spend 9 buck for 5 blades any more. I use a badger hair shaving brush and shaving cream from Italy. Kind of neat. here are a couple links to info http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6886845/

http://www.classicshaving.com/Home.html

I Hope JoeM. Did not go horse back riding. Or atleast did it better than me if he did.

Dirty Steve...........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 17:45:33 (ZULU)

Hawgs,

I talked with Joe last week and he was fine.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The cloudy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 18:48:10 (ZULU)

Jon -

Mineral spirtis will do no more harm to a Cosmoline soaked stock than has already been done by years of grease saturation. Scrubbing the Cosmoline off with mineral spirits and then repeatedly heating it in the sun is less damaging to the wood than steam or hot water.

If only the metal is caked in Cosmoline but the stock is just dirty, stained, scratched or dinged and you want to refinish it but retain its authentic appearance I strongly suggest that you follow the steps outlined by the CMP in the link that I've attached. It's by far the best I've ever seen!

Click my name.

ALAN
Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 19:27:09 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve:

From the looks of ya, she must've got you a belt sander.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 19:48:42 (ZULU)

White has made fire fighting and logging boots for years. Probably the best boots in the world in that style. Each pair was custom made - I assume the still are. If you lived in Washington, Idaho, Montana, or Alaska, you knew about Whites. But they probably were not national.

I could not afford Whites when I worked for the USFS. (They were $250 in 1972.) Their styles are a little dated - they don't make climbing boots, for example. But their smoke jumpers and logger boots are pretty good for the intended terrain.

When I went to college in Spokane, I used to walk by the White store. They made each pair to order, and did not have many people working. One pair at a time. I don't think you can try them on first. They are made to a last built for your foot. I think they mail you a tracing paper to stand on for sizing - that's what I received once. The boots are a hair tight, but stretch to fit perfectly.

Wearing a pair of custom Whites is like hunting with your grandfather's pre-64 Winchester Model 70. The quality of the work adds a richness to the experience - not in money, but just knowing that someone cared to turn out the very best product they could make.

White boots, Filson double packer coats, 1955 Colt 1911, 1950 Win. M70, Old growth cedar shakes, Clear fir 2x6s for framing.

P. Hayden
USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 19:51:55 (ZULU)

Close: I've got a '55 .308 FW and a '58 30-06 rifle, my 1911 is a 1920's commercial model.

Boots are Danners or Sorels, I'm thinking about getting some Filson stuff, but for now it's Columbia wool over thinsulate and capilene. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 20:23:07 (ZULU)

Jon,

I believe there was a pretty good step by step on removing cosmoline over on box of truth website.

_____________________________________________________________

White's boots. Pretty good, will last forever. Worth the money, but they're HEAVY! So are Hathorn's. Hathorn is owned by White's now, I believe. They're slightly less, but appear to be just as good. I had one pair, however, that I think I broke my feet into, rather than breaking the boots into my feet.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 22:43:11 (ZULU)

Travis,

I started having problems with an inflammed plantar tendon in my left heel sometime last year. I spent months trying to figure out what was causing it. I tried orthotics, and therapy. I finally switched boots. I had been wearing the Bates "Ultra Lights" for two years. I got a pair of Danner Acadia, and the problem was much better after a week. After a month of the new boots its all gone. I always thought the Danners would be too heavy for me, but once I got em on I cannot tell the difference in weight. They aint cheap, but they sure are worth it.

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 02:04:31 (ZULU)

Box of Truth - Cosmoline removal:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu23.htm

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 04:15:01 (ZULU)

Alan,

Made it back to the range (with TWO fresh batteries this time) today to do some chronographing. Had five rounds of 208 Hornady Amax, Winchester brass, FGMM 210M, and 68.0 grains of Reloader 22. I loaded these rounds in sort of a rush so the stats could (and would) be better.

Median velocity was 2908fps, with an ES of 38 and a SD of 15.

I was going to chrono some of the SMK 190's but on the first one of those out the tube I had a small wreck. A kindly gust of wind came along at the exact same time I broke the shot and skewed the chrono several degrees offline with the axis of the barrel and I succeeded in hitting one of the sensors with a severely mortal shot. It was over very quickly and I'm sure the sensor never felt a thing. Other than a crushing blow to my pride there were no other casualties.

I could have carried on using two sensors but I was sure I would break something trying to get the battery door off so I could change the dip (appropriately named in my case) switches.

Anyway, as I suspected, I did not have the elevation turret set properly for a 100 yd zero. Not far off, but enough to cause errors in estimating velocities.

Repair parts are on order with Oehler and should be here fairly soon, so I'll try one more time to get an accurate mv for the 190's.

I would swear you to secrecy, but it think the cat is out of that bag already.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 05:18:26 (ZULU)

Funny, of my short list, the clear fir 2x6s would be the hardest thing to get. Pretty wood.

This thread has convinces me I am spending too much money on cheap stuff, and too much time indoors. The thought of good boots makes me want to do something that requires a pack, boots, and flyrod somewhere in the vicinity of Thunder Creek.... Time goes by too fast. There are places I meant to go back to that don't even exist anymore.

If you only get one thing from Filson, get the Double Mackinaw cruiser jacket. Too warm for spring, but perfect for winter. Get it a little big. Virgin wool shrinks a bit just from the rain.

P. Hayden
USA - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 05:29:29 (ZULU)

jc,

I just plain ruined one crono. A Keith 250 grain 44 mag bullet over a health dose of 2400. That thing went sailing. Well parts of it did.

Good equipment is just plain great. I gave up on getting crap a few years back. I founder every once in a while but I end up getting reminded of why the stuff costs more. It's cause it's worth it most of the time. As Winston Churchill said, "I am easily satisfied with the very best." Good motto to live by. I smoke cigars and drink every now and then. I don't watse time on crap when it comes to ruining my healt, HAHA..

Dirty Steve............

Bolt, please disregard those last two lines.

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 07:46:48 (ZULU)

Filson...If you don't own one of Filson's wool vests; well. The price always put me off. First year working in Wyo. wife and I go into Episcopal(sp?) church thrift store in Jackson looking for a couple of extra blankets. Red plaid garment on the a rack catches my eye. Pick it up and it's a filson vest! Price is $15! And, it fits. Liked it so well afrer that winter I ordered a gray one at full price.

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WVFi, - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 13:21:59 (ZULU)

jc -

Thanks for the info. Too bad about your Oehler. I've been thinking about getting a spare sensor and set of screens for mine. Your experience has convinced me to get off my butt and do it!

ALAN
Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 16:31:14 (ZULU)

OK, funny resole experience with Rocky boots I took to local guy. I had him take off worn soft soles and put on Vibram lug soles. Picked them up and went straight to two day woods trip. Felt fine in store.

Through on pack and went for hike. About a mile in my feet started to get these sting like feelings. I ignored as long as I could but eventually stopped. Took off boots and found several dozen holes in my bleeding feet. The shoe guy had attached the soles with TOO LONG tacks. Weight had eventually punched the tacks through. Well I did the cradboard thing in the bottom to keep tacks from now bleeding feet for newt couple of days. Boots never went on feet again.

JC, too bad about Chrono. Would like to hear results of the 208s

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 17:26:30 (ZULU)

I too look forward to the 208 Amax results. They are far and away superior to SMK's WRT terminal performance. Not Hague legal but that don't apply to some folks.

Just sold the 1886, gonna order the CZ550 Safari tomorrow. I figure 300gn Barnes X's at 2600'ish fps is plenty for just about all American critters and won't be as little fun as 400's at 2500'ish. I'm thinking 1.5-5x'ish scope, the choices are Nikon 30mm, Leupold 30mm Euro and what else? Anybody make decent 30mm rings for the CZ? S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 19:25:06 (ZULU)

Ken M -

Don't overlook the Nightforce NXS 1-4x24mm scope with either the FC-2 or the NP-1 reticle.

Dick Phillips (the guy with the CZ's) says he likes the B-Square Lynx 30mm rings. All steel construction, available in low, medium, and high. They hold zero on his .505 Gibbs, so that's saying something!

Dick has a set of the Warne QD rings on another CZ, but he doesn't like the fact that they're MIM (metal injection molded) while the Lynx rings are machined from solid steel.

ALAN
Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 20:19:03 (ZULU)

Well it was long battle with the cosmoline,but well worth the time.For being 65 years old it sure is in good shape.And the machining work is great.I used a hair drier on the stock and it seemed to work good.Thanks for the help.

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 22:28:16 (ZULU)

Bill,

When I'm down in the back, I'd shoot you for trying to take my danners. The insulated ones are so comfy, I've worn them in the summer here! Too bad they were bought out. I think by Georgia.

JC,

Look on the Bright side, the worst thing that happened to you was having to go shooting, then having to shop for gun stuff!

Markwell,

That's the best thrift store I've ever been to. If you ever need good leather gloves(CHEAP!) go to Hungry Jack's.

Mike Miller,

Do we dare ask how the boot repair guy fared?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 00:35:22 (ZULU)

Ken, I just did a test of the NXS 1-4. Its the best damm scope in this power I have ever used. I liked it better than SxB Short Dot and its half the price. Take a look I sent a review to Marius yesterday

On the Shoe Repair guy, hell he was 75 years old. Not much to do but not take future work there. Did not have heart to even tell him what happened.

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
Ca, - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 01:04:44 (ZULU)

Gentlemen,

For those of you interested, on June 3, 2007 at 0800, the Goose creek tactical range located approximaely 30 miles to the North East of Eagle Butte, South Dakota is hosting their annual tactical match. The range is located on the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe Indian Reservation. Entry fee is 70.00. The match consists of a carbine and pistol course and a tactical rifle (read precision rifle) course.The two courses of fire are seperate. Entry fee includes both matches but the shooter is not required to compete in both. This year there will be a 5 round Poker shoot match which fee is 20.00.

The carbine and pistol course requires a .223 rifle with 60 rounds and a 9mm to .45 cal pistol with 45 rounds. The precision rifle course requires 30 rounds and a rilfe between .223 and 300 win mag.

In the past, targets have been out past 900 yards on this course.

For more details contact Harlan Gunville at (605) 964-2155. Course is limited to 25 shooters.

I have shot this match the last two years and had a blast both times.

I have done well one year and gotten my but kicked one year. Very nice prize table.

Pat II
Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 02:20:48 (ZULU)

Click my name for yet MORE computer ballistics crap. Downloads, ballistics progs., etc..

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 02:39:53 (ZULU)

Undude and Ken M,

The 208's shoot extremely well in a 300WSM. 68 grains of Reloader 22 pushes them at just a bit over 2900 fps. That's with Winchester brass and Federal 210M primers. I need to do a little adjusting with the seating depth to see if I can get them to shoot as well as I want them to. The 68 grains of RL22 is not showing any pressure signs other than a very light flattening of the primers. I'm gonna take the load up to 68.5 and see what I get out of it.

The rifle is in pieces parts as of today 'cause I'm changing over from a long action Rem. to a short action Surgeon in hopes that I can squeeze a little more accuracy out of the rig. Everything should be put back together, painted, repaired, etc., by next week and ready to go back out to the range to see what kind of trouble I can get myself into next time.

Travis,

Range time is good time even if you do screw up occasionally. Well, short of shootin' yourself in the foot. Damn, kinda reminded me of the late 1960's. There must have been a lot of defective civilian firearms made during that time as lots of troops on pre-deployment leave were being injured in hunting mishaps. ;-)

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 05:16:09 (ZULU)

Well here it is, April 12th, and it's snowing like crazy in Western Colorado.

Must be global warming! Oh, excuse me, now it's called climatic change. Just another fear tactic used to scare the masses into submission by the tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, anti-everything element that has taken over our universities and the media.

Let's see, in the 1960's a new ice age was supposed to be just around the corner. By the 1970's acid rain was supposed to destroy all of the industrialized countries on the planet. In the 1980's along comes the depletion of the ozone layer and the resulting hole in the ozone that was supposed to destroy our atmosphere, and sometime during the 1990's they started in with the global warming business and have recently changed the name to climatic change in a lame attempt to rationalize why freezing temperatures and snow in this part of the country at this time of the year can still be included in their idiotic theories and to avoid making people like Al Gore, who's become the Pied Piper of their movement, look like the charlatans that they really are.

I see it as an attempt by the left to gain political control over a large part of the civilized world by economic destabilization.

The sheeple see it as an effort to 'save the earth'. HA!

Rant over!

ALAN
Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 15:32:31 (ZULU)

Panicked morons do stupid shite, they are easy to lead about by the nose. Hence the reason for so much that political vermin do. Big reason I don't care for women having the vote or those who have not served in some form, for that matter.

JC, what barrel length are you using with those 208's, that seems awful fast for the usual shortmag 24" tube.

I looked at the NXS site, what's the opinion of the 2.5-10x24 vs the 1-4? S/F....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 16:55:18 (ZULU)

Ken M,

Barrel (Kreiger) length on the 300WSM is just shy of 28 inches.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 17:42:39 (ZULU)

There has to be somebody here that has messed with a 1911 A1,I have springfield that might get a custom trigger.Is it worth it?

Jon Kujawa
Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 18:14:38 (ZULU)

Hey all you "I-da-Ho'ans

What's the winter like there - I got a feeling from it's location, that the winters are a bitch, but the open shooting spaces sure look good.

Anyone see the Chey-Tac thing on the military channel last night??

Looks like ALL of the old Chey-tac guys are gone, including D**n, Warren Jensen, Doc John, and the rest.

The new guys claim first shot hits and a 20" group on a torso sized plate, at 2,200 yds, using a Kestral 4000, and no rangefinders (Uh huh!!).

Claimed a 2 shot 1" group at 900 ???

When the model "200" was fired, "a little puff of smoke" came out of the barrel??

The gun comes with a bridge - not a bridge scope mount, but a bridge to Brooklyn ;))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 18:16:53 (ZULU)

ALAN,

For the most part, I agree with you. But we did have to make some changes for the environment. Acid rain really was a problem, and so are a bunch of other emissions. The real issue, as I see it, is going too far. Automotive emissions have dropped 90%+ in the last 30-years, depending on the vehicle(s). Going to zero emissions is a monumental hurdle. I suggest those people proposing such measures be the first to forfeit their vehicles and any access to 'non-zero emission energy sources'. And managing carbon emissions? Ha! We can start by eliminating their rights to exhale. That would stop a lot of CO2 from being emitted. And we're expecting that 'global warming' front to hit us later today........ blecchhh....

Lito: Yep, I caught the CheyTac on 'Future Weapons', while channel surfing. IIRC, none of the bullets penetrated the target. Did they mention what type of bullets were used? Did they have a guy behind a bush, close-up, to put bullets on the target? And who needs a LRF when you have a Kestrel and a sooper-dooper CheyTac PDA?

Just another day in paradise........

Duman
Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 18:50:34 (ZULU)

Duman...

The bullets that they showed were bronze solids - probably the LRB bullets.

The pictures they showed of the bullets penetrating were taken at close (~10 feet) range with a high speed camera.

The bullets at 2,200...?? I don't know. Cudd'a punched the plate??

They have some new "Ex" Seal or Delta guy taking D**n's place. D**n tried to get a course going down in AZ, and it went up in smoke - all the guys that he has been crapin' on for the last five years came back and bit him in the "you know what"... the bastard is having to deal with his own mess now - no one trusts him.

What Goes around, comes around... and he has a lot of "comes around" coming. ;))))

I never heard from his lawyer - good thing, cuz I'm learning my around a court room ;))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 19:06:58 (ZULU)

'Lito,

I missed the 'bullets hitting target' section. I only saw the bald guy holding the target at the end of the show. I'm probably wrong. I'll try to catch the entire show next time.

Duman
Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 19:58:31 (ZULU)

JK:

I am not an expert, but I have rebuilt/built a number of 1911s. I think the issues for an already functioning pistol are, in order of importance:

a) barrel lock up/fit/bushing

b) sear/disconnect/hammer

c) trigger/take-up/over-travel/smoothness

If you are going to have the trigger worked on, you should also have a) and b) done.

"Worth it' is the second most subjective standard in the world.

If you are starting with a Springfield Mil Spec or GI model, I think you can get 90% of what you want by replacing the sear and disconnect (and hammer) with machined, hardened, quality parts out of the Brownells' catalog, buying a tighter drop-in bushing (I like Brown, but there are others out there just a good), and purchasing a medium or long length trigger with an over-travel screw. The next step above this is competition level work.

All I do on mine are a) and b). I like shorter triggers and don't mind take-up if I know when the hammer falls.

If you are starting with a high-end Springfield, and are unhappy, then you probably do need to pay for the work. I don't know if Springfield uses NIM or cast sears on their target models, but if so, replace them.

1911s are not hard to tear down and rebuild. You could do all of these things yourself, but do all the safety checks when you shoot it, before loading a full magazine.

P. Hayden
USA - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 20:09:47 (ZULU)

jon/1911s are a weakness. All you really NEED is good sights and a good crisp 4lb. trigger, assuming the gun runs OK and goes bang every time with whatever ammo you're going to carry in it. As it's easy to screw up a trigger job(IMHO),I suggest you find a good gunsmith. The problem is it's hard to be satisfied for long with a "basic" 1911(or even one 1911 for that matter: it's worse than the potato chip ad, trust me!!!!) At my age, and with some arthritis that's pushed me into shooting a 9mm/1911(the Colonel just flipped over) for IDPA, you'd think .45/1911s would be taking a back seat to other projects. Not so; as I have a Series 70 Colt and all the parts to build up another custom gun sitting here in the gun room. Just need to decide who to send the stuff to(and figure out how to pay the bill). Don't forget, you'll also need a Commander or other lightweight/compact 1911 for a carry gun as those full size steel guns do get heavy. And then everyone needs a Super 38, and a .22 conversion/Ace, maybe even a .17Mach2, and longslides are unique and oh man, it's a weakness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 21:09:55 (ZULU)

Mark,and P.hayden,

Yeah your telling me this pistol is the third one.Is a brand new springfeild.I was just thinking about a skeletonized trigger and hammer,but you can get all of the parts with a trigger kit.Who knows what I will do I have all these guns and big ideas and the only problem is I can't make the money as fast as I need to.

thanks

Jon Kujawa
Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 22:01:52 (ZULU)

Can someone point me at a US web site listing pricing on new pump-action shotguns (Rem, Moss, etc). I wanted to get some ideas of relative pricing for one of my relatives.

Thanks

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 22:48:41 (ZULU)

rod,

Unless they've changed in the past couple of months, both Remington and Mossberg show MSRP's on their websites. If there is anything in particular, I can provide you with wholesale costs.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 23:07:13 (ZULU)

No MSRP here :-(

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_synthetic.asp

http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=3&section=products

or here :-(

I was interested in the "price neighborhood" of a "basic" 12ga 18.5" bead or non-rib brl pump action suitable for dealing with 2-legged varmints. (i.e. not a vent-rib wingshooting configuration).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 01:01:41 (ZULU)

Exotic product country:

Just to mess with your minds a bit, a factory-mfgr pump action shotgun with a 14" brl falls into the same category as a unit with an 18.5 or 28" barrel in Canada.

Norinco makes an 870 clone with a 14" barrel for sale into the Canadian market that one of the importers is retailing for $C345.

Would seem like a fun toy to get :-)

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/N870-14.00.shtm

Ironically, the 18.5" version sells for $C299 and the 28" version sells for $C249 i.e. the shorter the barrel, the more expensive.

Norinco-mfgr firearms are not importable into the US:

(Note on Marstar's web page):

"Attn. U.S. Clients: Due to a U.S. gov't imposed embargo (import ban) we can NOT ship Chinese made firearms to the United States. Please contact the A.T.F. for more info."

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 01:12:56 (ZULU)

Roster Email -- any glitches lately?

All: heads up -- new virus in the works. Contains a zip file attachment with a password in the email. Email asks you to open the zip file, and provide the password to open it. DON'T DO IT. Virus scanners won't nail this one for awhile --- Every time the bad guys repackage the zip file with a new password - it changes the pattern - so it looks 'new'....

Anyhow -- Anyone out there heard from Rod Hansen? ASC match?

thanks,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 01:48:26 (ZULU)

Funny....I just talked to a former "SEAL" that was on fire about the new ChayTac PDA program. Kept on and on and on....(say that ten more times) about it, how it could factor in everything you could imagine, and then give you exact comeups to whatever distance you needed. He had the same look as Amway salesmen or Jim Jones' (dead) followers....When he wound down, I rattled off some numbers. When asked, I replied "duh, I just memorized my comeups to a thousand. Is that ok, too?" He just turned away and started on someone else. I later heard him say that he NEVER makes windage changes, except for, wait for it.....here it comes......YES! SPIN DRIFT! CORIOLUS EFFECT! I'm sorry, but I hadda bust out laughing. Made my day.

Off to Badlands to burn up a sinful amount of ammo and eat really evil chili.

Here's what is scaring me, though. I'm getting real used, real fast, to having a house to myself and doing whatever the hell I want. Even had a tasty Rocky Patel ceegar that Dirty Steve gave me, right on the damned couch in the front room. Another couple of weeks of this, I hit the bingo bitch point....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 02:03:19 (ZULU)

Chuck, I heard that crap from him today too. Think I might need to send him packing. He spent all clean up time telling me how Fd up we were. Oh well?

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 03:00:35 (ZULU)

"Hey all you "I-da-Ho'ans

What's the winter like there - I got a feeling from it's location, that the winters are a bitch, but the open shooting spaces sure look good."

It gets a bit brisk. Not bad. Californians don't seem to care for it.

Come on out. I'll lend you a rifle.

CDC'
Friday, April 13, 2007, at 03:11:43 (ZULU)

http://www.visitidaho.org/about/climate.aspx :-)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 03:17:36 (ZULU)

Charles Hunt: The average dining room makes a great weight room.

CDC'
Friday, April 13, 2007, at 03:28:06 (ZULU)

rod r.,

On the Mossberg website you will find MSRP's if you pull up the specifications on the different models. Guess Remington quit posting prices.

Off to the NRA Convention tomorrow. They are guesstimating a turnout of 65,000 over the three days! The liberals in St. Louis are not a happy bunch. ;o)

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The muddy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 04:08:32 (ZULU)

Gents,

Haven't posted for a bit, but am not going to play catch-up. Good posts and I glad to see that shooting is the primary topic.

A fellow instructor brought over his Remington PSS w/DBM last night as he's going to a basic sniper course and wanted me to look over his rifle and load some ammo.

The rifle has been shot a little and accuracy was OK, but not outstanding. Upon inspection here's what I found.

1. Rear of barrel and face of bolt making contact and galling. Bad enough to cause a small burr on the edge of the chamber in the 8 o'clock position.

2. Locking lugs had 10% engagement on the right lug and about 25% on the left.

3. Trigger had noticable creep, but broke at about 3-4 pounds.

4. Upon removing the stock it was noted that the front action screw only had about 1 1/2 revolutions of thread engagement. Rear was OK.

5. Stock and aluminum bedding block only had a small bit of support on the front reciever ring at 4 and 8 o'clock. Rear of stock had limited support on the last half inch of the reciever tang. I'm not sure there is enough surface along the reciever to even properly skim bed the darn thing. The reciever can actually be rocked a bit until torqued down. God knows what that's doing to accuracy. The barrel does free float, at least.

6. The barrel crown is OK, but I would recrown with a recessed style. Quality seems good on the barrel itself. No tight or loose spots felt while cleaning.

Luckily, he had purchased Badger rings and mounts for the Luppie M1 LR so there was no real surprises on that score.

Overall, I was pretty stunned that something like this made it through the quality control (?) process. There is no way to comment on headspace, as I didn't have the gauges to measure it. Based on what I saw a max headspace condition is a good bet.

Anyone out there seen similar Remmies?

The upshot is we are going to correct some of this, but it's going to be after the school he's attending due to time constraints. I doubt there will be a qualified armorer there to accomplish any of the work.

Good to be back "on deck" with you guys.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 04:26:33 (ZULU)

markwell,

"Just need to decide who to send the stuff to(and figure out how to pay the bill)"

Nothing to worry about. Got just the person to send the stuff to and don't worry about the bill.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 05:02:20 (ZULU)

Charles Hunt...

>"Here's what is scaring me, though. I'm getting real used, real fast, to having a house to myself and doing whatever the hell I want. Even had a tasty Rocky Patel ceegar that Dirty Steve gave me, right on the damned couch in the front room. "<

I've spent most of my life single, and some of it in various stages of "attached", with numerous examples of the female of the species.

Over all, I think I prefer single.

When I was single, I cleaned my guns in the living room and the couch smelled like Hoppe's #9. the floor usually had few extra Fritos cornchips on it. I ate cold pizza for breakfast, and once had a motorcycle in my kitchen for 7 months while I worked on it... and even though I ate all of the basic food groups (Beer, Pizza, Chinee' take-out, and Bacon Cheesburgers), I weighed 35 pounds less than I do now.

When my squeeze had a headache, I got another squeeze (without the help of a lawyer).

Went shooting when I wanted to, my "Hunny doo list" was load more ammo, clean the m-27, go to Frank's and drink more beer...

... yup, single is much betterer!!!

;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 05:07:55 (ZULU)

"Marriage is like a steaming bath; After a little while you realize that it's not so hot."__________Alfred E. Newman

Growing up I avoided moms at all costs. Now I'm married to one.

John Russell
Yes dear, yes dear, of course I'm listening - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 09:41:07 (ZULU)

Ken Hunter....ASC is on for May 12/13 and 19/20...I've been working on prizes and so has Rod..Bought some new steel(check out Salute targets) and will order shirts and hats very soon...This project has certainly grown hair over the last few years. There is still snow on the mountain but it's warmer now than it was for the winter shoot(dumb idea but interesting). All is well at the homestead. Will we see you in May??

outa here

Markwell
the Alleghenies, WVK, - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 12:31:27 (ZULU)

Markwell - thanks for the note. Hmmm... sounds tempting....

The website builder for the ASC site contacted me a few days ago for login info. He's looking at being able to have some info up soon for that ASC. Hit on:

http://asc.riflemen.net ever so often and see what happens. Right now there's the generic "test" banner that I use for initial setups.

take care all,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 13:50:03 (ZULU)

Well, Jim, like the bumper sticker says, "It ain't bragging if you can do it". It takes guys like that to make SEALS. If he really WAS a SEAL. At least he can shoot, but he was a bit annoying.

Worst part about the day was that I no longer have a reason to want to go home. Just 'cuz I'm getting USED to it, don't mean I LIKE it.

Off to Oklahoma.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 15:09:48 (ZULU)

rod regier,

Try RemingtonLE.com for a better selection of models. Then go

to ImpactGuns.com for a price that's about 100-150 dollars more than

your local dealer will charge you for the same item. I just got an

870 model #4449 this way. Good luck!

Mark

Mark Taylor
West Virginia, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 18:39:24 (ZULU)

HAY ALL

Charles S. Hunt

YOU R DEFINITELY RIGHT ABUT THE: "the dope" 'cuz you write it down"

"Wind is the problem, and there ain't no program that can look at

a mirage"

I DID THE SAME FOR YEARS END SUCCEED .

IT'S ALL EXPERIENCE WHIT YOUR RIFLE,YOUR AMMO ,ETC.

GET OUT .

AVI

avi
HAIFA, IS, IS - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 20:53:01 (ZULU)

I go here for real world prices :http://www.gunbroker.com/

Did you guys hear the rumor that Ruger was going to start making its own barrels?

4i's
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 21:25:55 (ZULU)

re: Shotgun pricing

Thanks for the pointers Mark and 4i. Local dealer for me would be in Canada, which has a completely different price structure than the US. Since I'm looking into pricing for a US relative then we would be talking *their* local dealer :-)

re: Ruger barrels

I had heard a rumour too that Ruger was going to finally be making their own barrels. Given what they accepted in the past and how many they implicitly sell, seems like a smart idea to me. They have been slowly expanding what they do inhouse for a long time.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 21:58:29 (ZULU)

SEALs have good ways of doing some things which work great - for the SEALs. That doesn't mean that their way is the only way, although often SEALs tend to think so. And they aren't the only ones - a lot of the high-speed, low-drag guys tend to think so.

The problem with people trained in only one school is that they often don't know reasons for what they do - it's just what they were taught. If you see the same task done many different ways, you can start to see why some work better than others, and when.

I've learned a lot from a whole bunch of people - and I have and will continue to steal from anyone with a good idea, no matter where he or she came from, if it's better than what I'm currently using.

One of these days, I may amount to something.

Nah, probably not. :-)

We just finished a 3-week stretch of classes with one day off - but I'm having lots of fun. Not a bad way to spend what was SUPPOSED to be my "retirement".

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 00:42:10 (ZULU)

Hawgs,

Just got home from the NRA Convention. Big crowd and lots of neat stuff. Too bad I'm not very, very rich. ;o(

Bravo,

Had a nice chat with my old friend Bob Hodgdon. Checked on your rumor about 4831 being discontinued and he said it wasn't gonna happen. When they started the sc they considered dropping the regular 4831. Decided to let consumer sales be the final judge. Found out that sales were evenly divided between 4831 and 4831sc so they still produce both.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The stormy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 00:58:36 (ZULU)

Doc:

I'm using a non-cannister-grade powder that I bought from a friend who has some "serious" contacts - IMR4896. It was part of an experimental production run a few years ago.

I like to think of it as IMR4895SC, since that is the nitch that it fills. (It *is* a short-cut extruded powder.) Wonderful powder for .223 REM. Burns clean, meters well, good load density. I'm using it with 55g and 64g projectiles. I get pretty good accuracy with that powder and the Rem 55g "metal case" bulk .224 projectiles (RB2244). They seem much more uniform than the Winchester 55g FMJBT projectiles.

My friend got a (50 lb?) keg of it, I got about of 1/3 of the tail end (for a good price per pound) when he decided on other powder(s) for .308 Win.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 01:45:19 (ZULU)

Back from visiting my wife on her big day at Bliss. She is the Army's newest Battalion Commander. Took a reservist to start a brand new active army battalion. It's a logistics thing but kind of neat they chose her instead of an active duty officer. To damn bad I didn't get anything accomplished. I was gunna check out the Rod and Bottle there but couldn't even fit that in. It was snowing in Riodoso NM. I left El Paso today and the wife had to go there for a briefing.

Damn was it windy there. I wanted to do some shooting there just to get in some awsome training on shooting in bad wind. Gusts were up to 60 mph.

1911 country. Nothing wrong with owning 4 or more. (45, 40, 9mm & 38 Stupid) I place the importance on barrel fit, sights and then trigger. I thnk it gives you the most benifit in that order. By that is just my opinion.

Dirty Steve...........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 02:25:45 (ZULU)

rod regier -

H4896? I'm pretty sure that it's only the number for H4895 when it's supplied in the large containers normally intended for commercial use. H4895 is already a short-cut powder. Looking at it, it's hard to imagine its grains being cut any shorter. In fact the latest jug of it that I bought has "Small Extruded Grain For Uniform Metering" printed on the label right under the H4895 designation and Extreme Powder logo. It would be interesting to find out for sure.

And I'll agree that it works great in the .223! I've been using it for years with a large range of bullet weights in this cartridge and always had fine results. Not too shabby in a .308 either, especially the M14/M1A platform.

ALAN
Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 04:40:00 (ZULU)

Powder Country:

No, IMR4896.

I made a photo of the label.

TYPE IMR 4896

LOT: 1

DATE: SEPTEMBRE 1996

NET WT 60LB *27.2 KG)

EX-9003222

Made in Canada for IMR Powder Company

RD NO. 5 Plattsburg NY

12901 USA

Product of Canada

I think that would have been the EXPRO powder plant. Expro Technologies Inc., Canada. (Valleyfield, Quebec)

According to http://www.hsl.gov.uk/enb/ec-type-cert.htm Hodgdon IMR smokeless powders are Expro Technologies Inc, Canada and ADI Limited, Australia for repackaging by Hodgdon Powder Company Inc, USA

This makes interesting reading:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2004/RAND_MG169.pdf

Canada’s Privatization of Military Ammunition Production

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 08:13:28 (ZULU)

rod regier -

OK, so the powder that you have was manufactured before Hodgdon bought the rights to the IMR lineup of powders. In that case please disregard everything that I said in my last post :)

ALAN
Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 16:55:28 (ZULU)

I don't have cable, so wasn't able to see the Future Weapons 408 Chey Tac.

Does anyone who saw it remember if they shot the rifle with a suppressor on it? If it had a can on it, did the can have a suppressor cover on it?

Was the guy laying on a lightweight Cordura shooting mat?

I sent the former SEAL who works for Chey Tac a can cover and shooting mat. He said he'd try to get them both on the show.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 18:25:01 (ZULU)

Tony Burkes -

I saw the show. The rifle was equipped with a can, but I don't remember seeing any can cover. I couldn't tell about a mat. Wasn't paying attention to that.

Hawgs -

And speaking of Chey-Tac, click my name to see something that really reflects on their character.

ALAN
Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 18:59:13 (ZULU)

Tony Burkes...

No can cover in any of the shots.

He must have sold it at a gun show :((

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 19:31:18 (ZULU)

Well, how about that. I didn't know anything about the Windrunner story. That's a crappy way of doing business. A rep brought one to a match I shot a few years ago, and it was the same guy I talked to at the last SHOT Show about making a cover for their can.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas , United States of America - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 19:54:27 (ZULU)

Wes,

Yes on everything you mentioned about new 700 PSSs. When I worked at the IBA (Chandler) shop, I LTId about 10 brand new PSS rifles a week. How about the entire bore isn't rifled. Saw that one about 6 years ago.

It has always scared me to think how many police snipers are out there with a stock, unchecked and unfixed Remington Tactical Response System.

I just recived 8 new PSS rifles here at the facility last week. Four of the eight had trigger pulls of 6 or more pounds. Three barrel channels had to be cleared. Yeah, lug engagement always tends to suck on them.

I fixed what I could, mounted 20MOA Badger rails on them with the contract required M3 LR scope. We made it to 600 so far and still holding good. I am praying hard.

Semper Fi,

Finger

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Sunday, April 15, 2007, at 15:57:40 (ZULU)

All - Cheyetac -- here's one for sale on gunsamerica.com - get this url or click on my name.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/classifieds/none/_976867220.aspx

Rem700/QC: I got hold of one that wouldn't quite sit 'right' in the action. When you center the barrel by the end of the stock (wrap tape around the barrel to make it center) - the action appeared to be 'uneven' in the stock. Turns out - the action threads were cut so the barrel - when threaded in - tended to point to the left abit... LOL...

take care all...

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Sunday, April 15, 2007, at 17:00:42 (ZULU)

Gents,

Jim and Ken, It IS scary what is getting out the door these day's and is still being sold on reputations 10+ years old. If someone wanted a new rifle today I would probably recommend an FN/Winchester.

My IBA 6.5 X .284 (the first one) was built while you were still with IBA, Jim. It's a peach, but I don't shoot it much as the .308 does what I want. Still, if I had to pick a rifle to shoot to 1,000 with it would be that stick and cartridge. Imminently shootable, accurate, and recoils like a .308. What's not to like except a lower barrel life?

Dirty Steve, Please pass my congratulations to your wife. It IS a big deal to be a BN Commander. You must be very proud of her. Had my chance as a BN XO and retired instead. Kick myself in the butt over that every now and again, but overall it was the right decision.

All for now. Chores and work beckon...

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Sunday, April 15, 2007, at 17:45:38 (ZULU)

Smoking........

Just past the two week mark on the smoking deal. Damn medicine is amazing stuff. Still have some cravings but nothing I can't get over. Kinda concerned about what will happen when the 3 months of medicine is up.

Keltec.......

Joined the Keltec 380 pisto club yesterday. Kinda neat having sumpin that don't show big buldges in yer britches. Damn, that just don't sound right for some reason. What are you guys feeding these leetle pistolas for defense rounds? I bought a couple of boxes of Magtech ball ammo to loosen it up with.

Hornady 80's........

Anybody tried these in their mouse guns yet? I've got a hankerin.

Sniper Foo........

On History Channel now.

Bolt out!

Bolt
Yucky, yucky weather in.........., NC, - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 00:25:53 (ZULU)

Wes,

Thanks for the kind words. My wife is very intelligent. She just lacks confidence. If she had my confidence she would be rule this country. Biggest mistake she made was marrying me. But my confidence is what got her. HAha.

How's the job going? Guess you got what about two years plus there now? Or is it three plus now? Time just flys.

Savage country. I was out at the pistol range today shooting and there was a break in the action. We had some old pots haning under a plate rack to shoot for giggles from about 40 yrds. We all were taking a break so I pulled out the Savage 10FP in 223. Loaded some 75 grainers in it. Whacked the pots from about 50 yards no big deal. Well the guys just started talking crap. So I said well lets see you guys do this. I loaded up and shot the string holding up one pot. They said luck. So with the next shot I cut the second string. They said dont shoot the last one we want to shoot it still. HAHA. Gun put away and a good laugh was had by me. That's why when some one asks what rifle they should get for under 800 bones I tell them a Savage. As you all aware Remmy's are made haphazard these days. My Winchester shoots well but used to foul like a beast in just a few shots. Savage seems the only company that cares about thier rep these days.

Chuck,

I smoked a Carlos Torano in the house yesterday and a Romeo & Juileta in the truck today. It's good to be the king.

Dirty Steve...........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 01:37:11 (ZULU)

"It's good to be the King!". Uh-huh. Yeah. Smoke one in the living room when the Battalion Commander's in the room. When I was working in the oil bidness (on the drill floor, worm corner, for a VERY short time) the motorman, Benny, told all and sundry one day "If I want to, I'll take a shit in the middle of the floor at MY house. His wife, who was busy at something else, offhandedly replied, "Yes, and the medical examiner will wipe yer ass." End of that conversation.

I had a very nice Partagas with Sarge last night with a beer and a shot of some kinda stumpwater scotch. (that's what it said it was on the bottle, anyway.) Made it home safe and sound, gotta go back in two weeks for another class, make me as employable as the young bucks, maybe.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 05:06:12 (ZULU)

Damn Steve, I go to Oklahoma to do some shooting with Chuck and you end up in MY AO! Ft. Bliss is only about 3 hours and Ruidoso - spell it right :-) is just at an hour away! Next time you come up to visit the Bn CO, ESPECIALLY if you decide to go to Ruidoso get Icee to give you my number and we'll try to meet someplace.

Badlands, typical weather, Saturday colder than..we'll you know, wind blowing like... BadLands, etc, etc. Sunday, sunny, warm little wind but was crazy at the 900yd steel, Chuck did a HELL of a job helping me get some better dope for my weapon. Aslo help me with my wind reading and calling Saturday, was a good day for THAT practice!

Later all!

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 07:46:15 (ZULU)

Ok Bolt, I gotta ask,

I have looked back a bit, and I have no idea what this "medicine" is, that you are referring to. Please, let me know.

I have to quit smoking too, and, well, I don't take it well. Grizzly bears get shot, and it sorta has me worried.

I only smoke a half a pack a day, but there is something cross wired in my head, cause just cold-turkeying those, and something or someone is gonna get destroyed.

I gots a problem, and you seem to have something that is helping you. I would like to know what that is, please.

Blessings all,

Sean Thomas
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 14:40:52 (ZULU)

Remington country....Stirring the pot...

Am I the only one having positive Remington rifle experiences???

Have a PSS that I stuck in a VS stock because I hated the fat pistol grip. It was originally scoped with a Mk4M3 and now wears a 3.5-10M3. My son mainly uses this rifle now. With my Dillon loaded handload it shoots MOA or smalller most of the time. Brock can make the ASC Between the Poles shot with this rig if the wind cooperates.

Have a first year production LTR (the DM model). Same scope as above and it also shoots MOA(usually smaller) with Fed Match or the handload.

Last year I bought a lightly used 223 LTR at a gun show. Figured if it didn't shoot I'd rebarrel it. It shoots my bulk, Dillon run 223 varmint load(26gr. Win 748/55gr. Ballistic tip) into 3/4 moa or less, usually the latter.

Only thing done to any of the above was trigger work and torqueing the action screws.

Chris Thomas has been kind enough to loan me one of the new S&B USMC M8541/3-12x50s for T&E. Needed a rifle to stick it on so I bought another 308 LTR..After a good barrel break in and the addition of Timney's new trigger this handy little gem shoots honest 3/4MOA or smaller groups with two different lots of Fed Match and my Dillon loaded handload.

ASC has been won by shooters with stock Remington rifles competing against the best there is in the custom realm(Twice by the same former Scout Sniper with a 308 PSS). Do these stock guns shoot in the .2s and.3s "with boring regularity"? I don't think so. As much as we all like nice rifles(I have Coopers and a Dakota) stock rifles can and will do the job. I have seen problems with stock Remingtons(like the bolt handle comming off) but not that many over the years. In the 5 years of running ASC I've seen rifles of all price points fail. Any of the above stock Remingtons are more than capable of performing well as recreation, competition, or work guns. Under the right conditions (ASC winter shoot??!!) even the most expensive rifles can fail. Are the GAP rifles or KMW rifles better than stock Remingtons? You bet they are!!! The question is, are they , like many other things in life, that many $s better or, necessary to adequately complete the task?

That ought to do it! Ducking for cover! Lindy?

outa here

Markwell
The Alleghenies, WV, - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 15:00:26 (ZULU)

Markwell -

Remingtons have been a crap-shoot, especially during the last few years. They manufacture a huge number of rifles, so you have to expect a few to fall through the cracks.

People tend to remember the bad ones, especially the ones that had no business making it out the factory door. I've seen a few!

ALAN
Monday, April 16, 2007, at 15:18:39 (ZULU)

Markwell...

>"Am I the only one having positive Remington rifle experiences???"<

I have had both. I have gone into detail about my poor experences here.

But there is another side.

I hate to be accused of being an optimist (Gawd forbid ;)... but the .264 Sendero-II stainless Flutie I bought last fall has been nothing but excellent on all counts.

The action is glass smooth with NO tool marks anywhere. all but two of the test groups with the Hornady 95 V-Max were touching. The worst was ~3/4"

Some of the loads were in the 65-70Kpsia range (heavy cratering), and I didn't clean the barrel until 60 rounds, and it cleaned up with a tiny bit of green, and light gray on the patches... with no brushing. The patches ran glass smooth from one end to the other.

Everything fit, the stock fit, nothing was "out of line" or "Off center" and the trigger was 3.5 pounds "out of the box".

This is a high class, slick as owl poo, out of the box, tack-holer.

I have a M700 CDL Ltd in 17 Fireball on lay-away. Before plunking down the deposit, I went over it with a fine toothed comb - same for the craftsmanship - action is smooth and flawless. The bolt face has none of the rough tooling marks I have experienced in the past 10 years. The trigger is light.

The stock (a copy of the Winchester "African", including the double pegs), fits perfectly, the barrel is centered in the channel.

I don't know... maybe (can we so hope) Remington has been reading SniperCountry and heard me bitching about them for the past ten years??

;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 17:26:05 (ZULU)

"Are the GAP or KMW better than stock Remingtons?" Maybe. Are they better than stock Howas? not $2000 worth. One of mine has just under 4000 rounds through it, and it still shoots .5 moa.....best group this weekend with Sarge was just under 3/4" at 200. Saw some PSS rifles last week that were shooting 2" or better at 300 yd hostage shots. Mo' $$ don't always make mo' bettah.

Sure wish I'd had one of those CheyTac PDA's though. Just on a whim, dialled in the 1k dope (Ah's poor an' iggnerent, so's I just had it scribbled in my cypher book) rolled into the riffle and only hit it in the lower left quadrant instead of dead center. Dang...shur wish'd I'da had me one a dem fancy things. And who the hell is this "Corey Olis" feller?

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 17:32:36 (ZULU)

I have two friends that both bought Remingtons three years ago. One was so pleased he sold it after 3 months. It would foul to beat the band in just a few shots. You could not get four decent groups out of it. Each group just got bigger and bigger.

The other decided he would make the gun shoot and tried numerous loads but the damn thing wouldn't group well at all. He saw my GAP rifle and said. Ah Ha! I shall take theREMMY TO A SMITH AND HAVE IT WORKED ON (sorry caps lock was hit) He ended up concieving a monster gun. 28" hextra heavy barrel new stock and the hole works. It finally shot well. But only after spending a ton of money.

"Am I the only one having positive Remington rifle experiences???"

Pretty much! HA.

I will sick with Savages and custom guns. Not that I plan on buying many more. But I like to have accurate toys. Going to get a 5th 1911 this coming week end. I guess two 38 supers will be enough. Its a custom built job used for the Bianchi Cup. He is tossing in 10 mags and a holster. I needed the extra mags so it works out well. He is getting my M1A NM in trade. Sorry Chuck, you have till Sunday to break in to the house and open the safe to steal it! (Chuck knows this gun is a real shooter).

Dirty Steve...............

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 18:05:53 (ZULU)

CatShooter,

I have had my eye on a push-feed Winnie rebarreled (Shilen barrel but probably not 'smithed by Shilen) in 264 WM. 27 in of stainless tube, smooth but unknown round count. Do you have any "magic" loads for the 264? Plus any advice on the caliber in general. I've read most of the usual stuff- no better than a 270, eats barrels, etc.... I've never had a 264 before and want something fast and flat to play with out around 500 yds (our longest KD range). I'm looking for a good place to start with handloads.

This is open to anyone else with anything to add, too, the more the better. Thanks in advance.

Erik in Kodiak
Monday, April 16, 2007, at 18:25:42 (ZULU)

Gents,

The reported West Virginia Tech shooting was reported as 1 dead and 7 or 8 wounded with suspect in custody about 9:00 AM this morn.

Now, at 10:30 PST it's a massacre with 21-22 dead, an unknown amount wounded, and the perp dead by his own hand. Makes you wonder what the real situation is...somehow it's hard to believe going from "suspect in custody" to an event of this proportion and the suspect "dead by his own hand". What did the cops do...hand him back his own gun?

More grist for the anti-gunner's mill, dammit.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 18:40:11 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve...Who built the Super? I have an old Bud Price super I had built on a Series 70 Colt in the late '70s..It's "super".

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 18:48:34 (ZULU)

Sir Wesley...

>"What did the cops do...hand him back his own gun?"<

You crack me up ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 18:53:39 (ZULU)

31 confirmed dead, per CNN.

Here we go again......

Duman
Monday, April 16, 2007, at 19:40:34 (ZULU)

Sean,

I don't know what Bolt is using but the prescription drug "Chantix" is a nicotine blocking agent and all the rave nowadays. You keep on smokin and set a quit date and by the time ya quit you haven't been absorbing any nicotine for the last 3/4 of time you've been smokin. It beats the nicotine habit and all you have to beat is the psychological habit, which may be harder.

Note: EAT something solid before taking this medicine!!!

If ya own 3 or 4 of every gun it makes it easier to bring home new ones. She can't remember them all.....

John

acehigh
Blmgtn, IN, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 19:46:20 (ZULU)

Obviously no one was armed nor did they fight back at Virginia Tech..The Libs will have a field day with this one. Apparently the guy had a pair of Glocks and several mags. 32 fatalities.

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 19:47:35 (ZULU)

Markwell, It was built in the Land Down Under. I don't know who the smith was. But it does shoot. I have an old Les Bear 38 stupid as well. It was made before he had his own frames and slides made. Next tiome I get to Bianchi I will ask the guy my friend got it from who the smith was.

Dirty Steve.........

steve dickerson
Monday, April 16, 2007, at 20:12:28 (ZULU)

Edited for double post........

steve dickerson
Monday, April 16, 2007, at 20:12:28 (ZULU)

"Are the GAP or KMW better than the stock Remington?"

YOU'D BETTER BELIEVE IT!

Those who have never owned or lived with a GAP or KMW can only go by what they percieve to be true. Those who own examples of either of these fine rifles know it for a fact. I suppose that there are always those that say they can't tell the difference, and that certainly reflects on their ability to judge such things ;)

I've seen/had my share of bad Remingtons, and had some good ones too. I've never seen a bad GAP or KMW rifle. I presently own one of each and won't hesitate to buy another when the time is right. I won't order a new Remington sight unseen because that's become a crapshoot, and I don't gamble.

ALAN
Monday, April 16, 2007, at 21:14:26 (ZULU)

Sir Wes,

I heard an update on my way home from work, and the new total is supposedly 31 dead, and 39 wounded. And with several different crime scenes this had to take a while didn't it?

You said the libs will have a field day with this one. I agree they will try, but it only reminds us of what happens if someone decides its your turn to die, and you're not armed, or trained to fight back. If this killer had run into one or two guys from this website instead of a bunch of unarmed kids he'd likely be the only KIA.

Does anyone have any information about what the police did once they were alerted of the murders? Surely they did not wait to go in after him? Thats what happened in Columbine.

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 23:00:53 (ZULU)

Bill:

Police are finally changing tactics if they are dealing with one or more "active shooters". None of this form a perimeter and wait for SWAT. New policy is to go in with guns blazing. Not a lot of fun for the first officers on-scene, but it will reduce the death tolls.

Don't know about the response for this specific incident.

Rod Regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 23:28:31 (ZULU)

Sean...........

15 days, 7 hours, 0 minutes and 20 seconds by my clock. I'm learning alot about using Chantix (Sarge was right as usual) from many successful quitters that used it and from my own experience.

First, don't follow the instructions. Go at least two full weeks before the quit date, especially if you're a large person.

Second, time your doses to coincide with the times you enjoyed smoking the most minus about an hour and a half. That will put the drug in the blood stream when it needs to be there.

Third, you have to eat something, even if it is a couple of pieces of bread when you take the pills + drink lots of water or other liquids. Don't take this shit on an empty stomach!

Lastly, the stuff WILL work, I'm almost proof of this. I didn't want to quit and only had motivation because the hospital went tobacco free on the entire campus. I'm now wanting to quit and finding it 1000 times easier than my last 11 tries with all other methods including Zyban that damn near drove me insane (more than normal). With the exception of a setback, the meds take care of most of the anxiety and waves of craving that I have had. I also learned that it is better NOT to use nicotine supplements.

I was a 1.5-2 pack a dayer. You shouldn't have any problems.

Wind.............

I'm figgering out about 33 minutes of wind at Butner today. Would have been a fun day to shoot :) Power lines and trees down all over creation. Kinda messy.

Keltec 380.......

Come on folks. How many of you are carrying this as a bug gun? Need some decent ammo choices. I've never shot anything this light.

Bolt out!

Bolt
very sad for VA tech folks......, NC, - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 00:07:02 (ZULU)

I hear that the final count is 33.

The libs will milk this one, but I have also seen that discussions are also saying that VA has full carry laws, EXCEPT in the colleges and lower schools.

And the Judge on Fox said that if a student had a licensed CCW, it would ended after the first or second shooting... or might have never happened.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 00:26:25 (ZULU)

VA Tech:

Just underscores the lunacy of "gun free zones". Only those inclined to obey laws will be disarmed. Crooks and loons won't care.

Would this shooting death toll happen at:

- A gun show?

- A police station?

- A shooting range?

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 00:39:03 (ZULU)

Hey guys...

Go here and VOTE:

http://abcnews.go.com/

It's running 2:1 our favor.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 01:00:51 (ZULU)

In response to John's comment - I've never owned a Remington. I have had three, and still have two, Winchester Model 70 HBVs (the third burned up in a fire.)

All have been 3/4 MOA guns out of the box. Never had to do anything to them but replace the action screws with hex-drive screws from Brownell's and adjust the triggers, using Lito's fine instructions.

My Accuracy International is easier to shoot well - so much so that lately I've been shooting the Model 70's, which force me to use better form - but it shoots only a little better.

I've seen a lot of Remingtons, though, and they seem to be uneven, rather like Kimber handguns have been of late. Some shoot pretty well. Some suck. I prefer to avoid the luck of the draw with firearms.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 01:04:32 (ZULU)

Bolt, congrats on the stopping smoking. When I carry my .380 I load it with Win Silvertips. Practice is with ball ammo, strange that it cost more than 9mm.

Fred Hartman
Toledo, Ohio, USA - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 03:56:04 (ZULU)

Rod,

This thing was over by the time I heard about any of it. I had court today, and did not get done until early afternoon then I went back to my "crash-pad" apartment, and got my uniforms and gear cleaned up and ready for next week before heading off to my real home. From what I have heard so far it was a tough call for the police. They had no idea that this murderer was gonna go on a rampage two hours after the first murders. They thought it was a domestic violence related incident and confined to the first crime scene. They must be wrung-out by now. And the media is not helping the matter any from what I have seen.

Columbine was the spark that got our department involved bigtime into to training for "active shooter" incidents. You are right about active shooter incidents. You go right to the source and stop it.

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 03:57:08 (ZULU)

The news out of Virginia is precisely why I've tried to put together this class up in Oklahoma. A lot of departments, mine included, refuse to believe it will ever happen here, and are going to study it and argue it to death. They're more than happy if the Feds come by and drop a ton of money on them to get it done, then cobble up some shitty program to satisfy the lawyers and PR hacks. But, actually pony up some cash for actual training? Hell no. In any case, I'm probably going to be pulling the ripcord soon, and I'd like to know that I'm leaving behind at least a few on my shift that will have some idea of what the F**k to do if it hits the fan. So, that being said, there's probably still some room left in the class for anyone who wants to attend. Tactical carbine. Not yer momma's TC class. Run by Rich Johnson, Clovis, NM SWAT team commander. Oklahoma CLEET certified, so it's probably convertable to whatever state you're from. May 3rd through the 6th. $400 for the course, if you've been there, you know the accomodations are free, you'll need a carbine, tac vest or something to carry your mags, duty pistol and 750 rds for the carbine, 250 pistol. I've got six major high schools in my area, and a slew of elementary and middle schools. Not on my watch, and not in my city. Not without the BG getting dead. Ya'll come up and let's get trained up.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 05:14:37 (ZULU)

If you vote the ABC poll, take both. There's a big difference in the numbers on what amounts to not putting metal detectors at entrances.

I wouldn't bet a bottle of 'baccy spit that they won't publish the poll figures if it doesn't come out the way they want.

WR Moore
Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 05:52:47 (ZULU)

Bill:

Don't know if it got much play in the US news, but there was an active shooter incident in Montreal (Dawson College) within the last year. Police officers were there for some other reason, heard the gunfire and rapidly moved to contact with the shooter. Gunfire was exchanged between the active shooter and the police officers, shooter was hit and apparently then committed suicide. The quick intervention of the on-scene officers was credited with keeping the victim count much lower than it could have been.