Sniper Country Duty Roster

April 2007

Hi guys,can anyone tell me anything about a marlin model 25 bolt action .22.With the Micro Groove Barrel.This is a rifle that I used as a kid to rid the barn of pigeons.

Thanks Jon

Jon Kujawa
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 01:03:07 (ZULU)

Hewy Jon-K...

The Marlin 25 is an Ok little rifle - Micro-grove barrels were good.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 01:20:41 (ZULU)

Mars,

Welcome home. Let me add my thanks for your service.

HDR
OK, - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 01:34:52 (ZULU)

Rod, thanks on the definition... I know/have been able to figger most of them out but I thought the IIRC must have been some Army/MC terminology...

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 03:10:25 (ZULU)

Alan, Your free, white and 21.. You can get it. I'm saying just becareful. Heck I used to ride a CBR900RR when they first came out. I learned I was mortal. And as you know I took as refresher course in being mortal recently. Ha Ha.

Spotter Sniper pair. It is my understanding that the senior guy is the Spotter. However they both take turns swapping out behind the spotting scope to keep eye fatige down. So they alternate jobs. If Pete C. or one of the other real pro's could chime in this would be a done deal.

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 04:07:51 (ZULU)

Can you guys recommend a good Rimfire scope,I think its time to upgrade the old tasco that is on it now.

Is the BSA sweet 22 a bad or good scope?

thanks jon

Jon Kujawa
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 04:40:24 (ZULU)

Alan....should you decide against it, I think D. Steve has a horse for sale. Gentle, soft-broke and a good runner.....

One of the truisms of life is that it's unpredictable. Came home last night, house was empty and a note on the table. 15 years seems to be about the longest I can keep one. Stunned doesn't even begin to describe it. Wow.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 05:44:49 (ZULU)

I'm really sorry to hear that Charles. I can't imagine what a kick in the nuts shocker that must be after fifteen years.

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 06:27:13 (ZULU)

Charles Hunt...

That's a tough one, but some advice from someone that's got experience.

First, report the theft to the police - she can't empty the house, cuz it's "Joint property"... unless she only took her stuff like clothes, and not the common property, like furniture.

Then file for divorce on the grounds of abandonment.

I know it sounds "aggressive" at a time like this, but having been there more times than I want to think of, the reality is that you haven't been left, you have been attacked.

Did she take the financial records and other papers?? If not, get them out of the house and to a trusted friends. When asked for them, say "I don't know where they are, I think she took them". You can always "find them" later if you need to.

Think of it in a different light - you are in a conflict with someone and there is a major injury - what you do in the first 24 hours can determine what happened to you over the years.

Also... from now on, stay single, pay cash, don't keep records that you don't have to (I got THAT teeshirt!!).

When it comes to women - take 'em for a trial drive, lease, but NEVER buy ;) ;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 09:53:18 (ZULU)

Click for an idea on dealing with Iran. It doesn't require a lot of groveling.

Conrad Dobler advised, "If it floats, flies or f**ks, rent it."

Jon K (re: .22 RF scope): Old Weaver K series can be picked up cheap and they work good. Weaver will repair damaged ones for very little $$.

I saw Nikon Monarch UCC 3X9 or 10 or something recently for under $200.

CDC'
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 14:37:46 (ZULU)

Mars: Welcome home and thank you for your service to your country.

Charles S: My condolences. That is a rough one.

Pat II
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 16:11:37 (ZULU)

Chuck, Damn I kinda thought that issue was resolved(wanting to find herself). Appearantly you did too. Sorry to hear about it. I'll talk to you on Monday. Hope she left the guns. I'll bring you a good thinking about stuff cigar tomorrow.

Dad always said if it has tits or wheels you're gunna have problems with it.

CDC, I normally don't favor crusemissle diplomacy. Hoever, in this case it would be appropripate. Like he state we don't want to occupy just nueter them. We shoul send afew and say release them or tomorrow more will arrive. Heck I would target thier leadership on the first strike.

Dirty Steve.......

DirtySteve
Mico, TX, USA - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 17:09:03 (ZULU)

Damn Chuck....you need anything..you know where I am at, and the Dorm will be there for you to hibernate in if needed.

On the Spotter deal, the most experienced person should be the spotter. The spotter is the person that has the most responsibilities, IE Wind reading, assisting in RE,target determination, commo, security,etc.

Bobby Whittington
Grandfield, OK, USA - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 17:28:54 (ZULU)

Charles S. Hunt -

A horse? Nah, I don't need another horse. We've had horses since 1978, all kinds of horses, from Arabs and Appies through Morgans and good ol' Quarterhorse mutts :) And they go from being a royal pain in the arse to a joy to own. Don't need another one right now!

I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. Fifteen years and it comes down to this? Sneaking away like a theif in the night? Bravo's got a good perspective on a similar situation. Perhaps he'll chime in. And 'lito's also a man of some experience in these matters. Listen to his advice. I wish that I had some advice like that after my first disaster. That one only lasted a bit less than five years but almost wrecked my life. The present one has been going strong for over thirty years, so I'm not the one to tell you not to do it again.

Hang in there - it's gonna get much better.

Dirty Steve -

Well, the decision's out of my hands. Somebody snatched up that Hayabusa while I was still just thinkin' about it.

I retired my 1967 Norton 750 P11 (bought it new, right off the showroom floor) just a few years ago mainly because it was getting almost impossible to find parts to keep it going, but also due to two old injuries received in the skies over the Red River Valley in '69 and '71 that started giving me trouble. I had done a major overhaul on it back in '78 that included an 810 kit in the engine and a radical diet that entailed trashing everything that wasn't needed to make it go fast and replacing the complete front end with a Ceriani dirt track setup along with a f&r disc brake setup. Wound up weighing 340 lbs. dry and making almost 90 HP. A real fun ride, couldn't keep footpeg rubbers on it for more than a couple of days;)

Now that I feel much better physically I'm getting the urge to ride something fast again. We'll see.

CDC -

I'd just love to see a solution like that for Iran, but I'll betcha we won't do a thing. And I hope that I'm wrong!

ALAN
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 17:37:18 (ZULU)

CDC: Thanks for the great link...nice to see there are others of a like mind. Time for this country to "get tough" both abroad and at home. So what if oil goes to $100 a barrel? We need to be weaned off of the foreign petroleum teat. Bite the bullet and let's develop those alternative, renewable fuel sources. A recent newscast talked about groceries costing more because more corn was being diverted to ethanol production rather than animal feed or food stuffs. Why do we subsidize agricultural commodities so heavily? ($164.7 billion 1995-2005 http://www.ewg.org:16080/farm/region.php?fips=00000) Your tax dollars and mine. Just "google" the phrase "federal agricultural subsidies", you'll see all kinds of articles by government watchdog groups and newspapers like the Washington Post (article about agricultural farm subsidy payments to people who don't even farm...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/01/AR2006070100962.html ) The young people in this country have all gotten to be too soft and they need a real wakeup call. All this "PC" BS has made them dangerously apathetic and they have too much of the "me, me, what I want" attitude. They are a spoiled bunch. I wasn't around for WWII, but I learned about all the sacrifices the general populace made in terms of rationing, women in the workforce to push the war material effort etc. because I learned about them in school when history classes still covered all the conflicts this country was involved with. What are they teaching kids today? I get office memos from college graduates who do not understand grammar, good sentence structure or the difference in meaning and use of words like "affect" and "effect". Ever go to the store and the register total is $10.12 and you hand them a $20 dollar bill and 12 cents only to look up into the blind stare of a deer looking into the headlights? Or just as bad, they need the register to calculate your change (better be sure you've handed them the money before they've punched the buttons or you'll just confuse them). All very scary...

If this country had gone into Vietnam, the first Gulf War and now Iraq with the unified mindset of WWII, we wouldn't be in the current mess and Iran wouldn't be rattling the sword. My apologies for the rant. It's just a by product of my frustration at watching this country decay. Years ago, I tried to tutor inner city students in mathematics. I was told that I was too tough because I wanted them to learn the math by hand before I would let them use their calculators...geeesh. Forgive me for believing that an understanding of the underlying concepts was important. And if they thought that was tough, they should have learned from my father...but that's another story...

Sorry...did it again...I yield the floor before I get started on anything else...

Gerry
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 17:48:10 (ZULU)

re: defensive measures before marriage.

John Ross (of "Unintended Consequences" fame) have same great proactive advice and discussion on the sanity of getting married

from the male POV.

http://www.john-ross.net/ross_in_range.htm or click my name

Thoughts on Marriage parts I, II and III.

Here is a sample of his wisdom for the aftermath:

6. There are lawyers that your wife must NEVER be allowed to hire. In every major city, there are a few lawyers who are tremendously expensive and tremendously effective at getting large settlements and/or awful terms in divorce cases. These are the guys that will, if they have to, convince your wife to claim you molested your own daughter. When these kinds of lawyers meet in court, the legal fees, as above, are astronomical, even if the resulting settlement isn't. You must never allow yourself to ever face one of these people in court, especially without his counterpart on your side, and there is a very simple way to do that:

Hire all of them first.

I mentioned I knew both of the men involved in the just-described case. That is because I had hired both of them years before, as well as three other men of the same standing in St. Louis. At the point that my own marriage's future looked uncertain, I made separate appointments with these five men. I did not lie. I explained to each that I wanted to stay married, but that my wife was unhappy and since it was possible we would get divorced if things didn't get better, I wanted to find out what my options were and what kind of things I could expect to have happen during a divorce proceeding. I said to each I had heard he was very good, from conversations at the club. All these were true statements.

In addition to getting some very eye-opening answers, I had divulged information about myself and my finances, and now all of these men were prohibited from working for my wife. This cost me $200 each except for one lawyer who charged $400. That was the lawyer later hired by the husband in the above story. During my consultation, the lawyer who later got stiffed by the wife found out I knew about guns and asked if I could get him a bolt for his semi AK, which he had lost. I delivered one the next day for my cost of $68.25. It's been over a decade and he's never paid me. He's also the one whose women clients most often accuse their husbands of molesting their own children.

I should point out that doing what I've described above is called a "fashion show" and it is something high-powered divorce lawyers absolutely hate. The St. Louis "divorce cartel," as we call them, is down to four (I think) lawyers as one of the five went up the river for fraud. They are on to this technique, and each of them now requires a $2,500 retainer before they will talk to you for a half hour. This means a $10,000 tab, which is still dirt cheap when compared to what you are avoiding.

If you do what I advise, your wife will then have to hire either a decent and ethical lawyer, or one that her girlfriends have talked her into because he/she has a reputation as "tough" or "a real fighter." The latter is what you want. "Tough" in this case really means that he/she is very abrasive but sloppy and/or lazy, and rather than making powerful legal arguments for making more things joint property, will focus on running up your wife's legal bills, which you will have to pay. Believe me, padded legal bills from a lawyer like this are a great trade for true competence. This kind of lawyer HATES going to trial, and will advise your wife to settle right before trial. It will be at the last minute to get more hours billed. More on this later.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 18:48:26 (ZULU)

Charles...

What Rod said about "Fashion shopping", but there is a way around the $10,000 cost.

It works like this - send a registered letter to the lawyers detailing your case, and asking them if they will tell you if they will take the case, and how much it will cost!

That's all it takes to "poison" them.

If they show up in court, have them disqualified because of prior knowledge of the case, and having your private information - it works 90+% of the time.

(I'm learning ;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 20:29:46 (ZULU)

Rod Regier & 'lito:

We're ALL learning....

Gerry
Sunday, April 1, 2007, at 21:33:12 (ZULU)

Gents,

Good friend of mine;

Libertypen.com

180 degrees from his cousin the Congerssman. HA!

Semper-Fi!

Spud

Dennis B. Queen
Merced, Kalisocialistfornia, USA - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 04:42:39 (ZULU)

Charles, man sorry to hear your suffering. Been there myself. Might be a good diea to take Bobby up on his offer, Times like this are best around good folks and away form the pain, if only for a couple of days.

Catmans advice is good also. Grab your share. I have let them go with everything just to get screwed even more later. Fair is fair,.

Mike/Undude

MIkeMiller
Ca, - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 05:21:01 (ZULU)

Thanks, guys, for the words of advice and encouragement. It's a good thing to know that there are those out there that have seen the elephant are are still around to talk about it. Nietzche once said, "That which does not kill me, makes me stronger." Of course, he's dead, but it's the thought that counts, right? I'll be all right, I still got a couple of bounces left in me. It was just a bit of a shock, that's all. Thanks again. At least now, I can fire up a really nice Macanudo in the comfort of my easy chair, instead of having to go outside and have all that lovely fragrance get blown away by the wind.....cool.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 07:33:32 (ZULU)

You guyz know that our little cell phones (we call them "Toy phones" in out house) have GPS in them so "you know who" can find you... now the location service is available on the net for anyone to use.

http://www.sat-gps-locate.com/index33.html

It's scary.

Charles...

I know you are hurting BADD, but if anyone crawls through the SC archives, there are many many tales of these guys going through shit with women critters.

I may have the ultimate collection of "tee shirts" in this department, and now see all women as passing stones across the stream of life... if one works out, good... fine, but if not, I move on. God didn't make women to be a permanent fixture in mens life. We are meant to taste the apples of life... "ALL of them!".

When a woman walks out like that, you don't have a troubled relationship - the relationship went a long time ago. You now have a primal enemy, so prepare for the worst.

My second told me that she was helping her little sister with studies each weekend to finish college... until her little sister called one weekend to speak to her :(( She was bangin' a rich Long Island dentist, who owned a rock music recording studio, and was she "taken by the glitz" and the money.

I kicked her out to her dentist... and two years later, she called me from some asshole island in the Caribbean and said that the dentist had left her for some other babe, and she was stuck in a hotel with 9 weeks due ($17,500) and they wouldn't give her passport and luggage back, and could I send her the money so she could get back to the states... all those shitty years were worth it when I said, "Can you swim", and hung up! - A follow up is that she is now 50, living on public assistance (the PC word for welfare) in single room in a welfare hotel in NYC.

So Charles... you have been attacked, and as in war, when you are hurt you still have to hunker down and fight.

Drop me an e-mail if I can help.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 09:58:25 (ZULU)

Icy you know where to find me and have my number, use it anytime!

Guys looking for a very specific start point for a load. OK data first: 16" 1:9 twist AR (DPMS Bull barrel)

Next Varget and just Varget PLEASE!

Next 69gr SMK's and only 69gr SMK's PLEASE!

Now the Sierra accuracy load is 23.5 Varget BUT that's from a 20" and that load from my 16" is only about 2560 fps give or take. I think I can "speed it up" say around 2800+ and still get some good accuracy.

So anyone want to give me a STARTING point!

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 10:52:12 (ZULU)

One of one of my brother's wives (it makes sense if you reread it) cleaned him out. He came home to an aluminum lawn chair, a tv that didn't work right and about three bucks worth of disposable or broken kitchen stuff.

So he laughed, said "It's just more s**t", and went to work: He bought some more tools, did a nice rennovation on the house, went to electronics stores and furniture stores and put the place in better order than it was originally.

Well, the ex came to see him. She looked around, gave him a big "boo hoo", did him a job in the sack, and moved back in.

A couple of weeks later she cleaned him out again. Took it all. Her brother even got his new tools.

This time he said, "It's just more s**t, but this s**t is getting expensive."

The moral of our story is: Bye bye MEANS bye bye.

He, and his amazingly lovely and gracious wife #4 live in SA. He is smarter than he sounds.

CDC'
Monday, April 2, 2007, at 14:38:50 (ZULU)

Sarge: The load you have for Varget is probably about as good as you're going to get. If all you are going to use is that powder, you're gonna hit deminishing returns real quick, as Varget is a medium to slower burning powder. I had to switch to AA2230 to get my speed back up to the 2700 mark out of that short bbl, I wasn't able to do it with Varget. As with all things, YMMV....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 16:08:26 (ZULU)

Optics question,

I stoped in at local shop,they had the Nightforce NSX 5.5x22 scope,I thought about it all weekend,I must have one.The question is,is there anything better,what about U.S optics,or Schimdt and bender?

thanks jon

Jon Kujawa
Monday, April 2, 2007, at 18:13:08 (ZULU)

Charles Hunt, Call me ASAP. Need to run something past you.

Cell 910 459 9410

Hey guys, get back later. I'm working like that one-armed paper hanger.

Semper Fi.

Finger

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 18:16:11 (ZULU)

If one of you happens to be bored, could you please explain to me how underpressure loads blow a revolver up?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 18:55:02 (ZULU)

Travis...

Not to be picky... but what do you mean by "under pressure"? Under WHAT pressure?

There is no such word or phrase.

If you mean extremely low pressure, the bullet sticks in the barrel, and the next one breaks the gun!

Jon-K...

Think about it for a while.

It's a lot of money to spend on an impulse (don't ask me how I know that ;)))

USO is an iffy thing, some like them, but many have had problems with them... and they are not made of one piece bodies, so the body integrity is shaky.

S&B is a top of the line scope, and worth a good look.

Decide what you want the scope to do, then go get the one that does what you want - If I had done that with women, I wouldn't be in the spot I'm in now :(((

Don't get guns or women on impulse :(

'lito

Another day writing court motions - do I know how to have fun or WHAT????

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 19:20:12 (ZULU)

OK! I'm getting to the point where I'm going to have to break down and try either RE15 or more 2230! Chuck that load you gave me on the 2230 is the one I'm quoting! So where do I go from here? Need to get back into my manuals and check some web sites but again, where is a good starting point, that worked in YOUR 16"! Of course I KNOW I'll have to work it up but looking for ideas!

Just looking at some web sites and a further question, anyone use AA2495?? That is one of Accurates powders of choice for .223 and 69gr SMK's.

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 20:31:32 (ZULU)

Lito,

thanks for the words of wisdom

Jon Kujawa
Monday, April 2, 2007, at 20:44:57 (ZULU)

2-Mile Prairie Dogs with 308 (Ackley Improved) and 338 Lapua (Ackley Improved): http://www.northfloridashooting.com/Misc/2MilePrarieDogs/2MilePrarieDogShooters.htm

sinister
Monday, April 2, 2007, at 22:17:01 (ZULU)

Sarge:

In .223 and .308 Varget is volume limited, not pressure limited.

(Meaning that you generally run out of case space for powder

before you hit pressure limits). You'll need a faster/higher density powder to get more velocity with the 69g SMK's in .223 Rem.

Lee 2nd edition .223 Rem 69g projectile data max loadings in descending velocity order:

AA2520

AA2460

V-N540 (compressed)

XMR-2495 (compressed)

AA2230

(truncated)

(Barrel length unspecified).

Looks like AA2520 would be the best choice based on that data.

I understand it's also a good choice for 165/168g .308 Win loadings too.

Sarge, you can send me a private email and I'll send you a .PDF scan from the book page if you like.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 22:33:16 (ZULU)

Charles:

redecorating empty spaces:

Here is what John Ross did -

http://www.john-ross.net/marriage_ii.htm

This may sound like paranoia but it is a not-uncommon practice for a wife to decide to move out on you when you are out of town and take EVERYTHING with her.

This happened to me. I returned home from a 3-day visit with my best friend from college, and for every room except my study, it was like moving into a new apartment. Not a single fork, plate, roll of toilet paper, curtain, drape, salt shaker, napkin, bar of soap, nothing. She even hired an electrician out of the Yellow Pages to take down some ceiling light fixtures she liked. (Our regular electrician refused. I think he had visions of me skinning him alive.) When I'd tell people what had happened to me, their eyes would get big and they'd invariably tell me of two or three other friends they knew whose wives had done exactly the same thing.

Men don't talk about it but it happens often enough to plan for--at least as often as having a fire at your house. Prepare yourself mentally for the possibility that one day you'll walk in the door to find your home has been stripped. The hardest will be when you find your kids' rooms empty of all things. The message is they will never come back. This is not true. Focus on the fact that after the divorce is over, your kids are going to see you and stay with you regularly. Now that she's bolted, it can only get better from here.

While the lack of furnishings is a visual shock, it is a reality that furniture, rugs, dinnerware, kid's beds, etc. are as close as the nearest store. Business records, tax information, deeds, and legal instruments are much more difficult to reconstruct. If your wife (as mine did) takes every scrap of paper and every computer disk that she can lay hands on to give to her lawyer, you will be very glad you followed my example and had all the important things in a bank vault, and had no joint accounts for her to loot. Within three days of coming home I had the house refurnished enough to comfortably live in, had restocked the kitchen with serviceable items from Sam's and Linens 'n' Things, and moved my cannons (Krupp, Hotchkiss, and Gatling) and elephant tusks from the garage and basement into the living quarters for improved decor.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, April 2, 2007, at 23:16:36 (ZULU)

Since you brought this up Rod... It's funny, my wife has been going through the process of getting life insurance for me, and we were talking, she said with all the insurance on me you'd do real good. I said honey don't talk that way, but the next day after the funeral my gun cleaning stuff will be in the bedroom, and I'll be in the market for a small ranch either in the West, Costa Rica or Tennessee!

So don't despair too much Charles. Any bitch that would do that to you is better off gone. But you know that. It will just take a little time. You've had better advice than this from the guys here.

At least, you can smoke those Macundos (or however you spell it) and feel free to keep your gun cleaning stuff close at hand.

On a different note: I've really fallen in love with that Beretta 1201FP autoloader shotgun I bought. And I didn't even shoot it yet! It's a beauty.

doug sickels
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 01:05:33 (ZULU)

Hi folks,

I'm refinishing a winchester model 67 .22 rimfire.

The stock was real bad,real-real bad. Basically black with dings and scratchs all over her. So used some strip-X stripper and sanded her down with some 220 grit, then 320, then finally down to 400 with mineral spirits. Now she has nice grain lines with beautiful color.

On a Marlin model 81 I refinished I used some minwax polyshade in a light honey color after doing the above process. but it still came out darker than I wanted in places where some of the original stain was deep in the wood. I was trying to get a tiger stripe finish in the wood grain but it didnt turn out right.

on this stock it has a real nice grain when you hit it with the mineral spirits and i don't want to change a thing. But I do want to seal the stock. Tung or linseed with M.S. seems to want to redarken the grain and i don't want to go any more darker.

Q: what should i use to seal the wood that wont darken the grain but keep that shine?

I posted some picks here: http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s299/Mr32Finish/Stock/

Any help would be appreciated.

JerryC
Cypress, Tx, USA - Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 03:36:19 (ZULU)

Sarge, 2230 is a bit too fast for max performance with the 69 gr sierra in a .223 - Going from the Hodgdon burn rate chart, you might check out H4895 as well for that application

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/general/burnratechart.php

My notes for AA2230 go up to the 62 gr IMI SS109 in an LC case with a max of 23.8 grains. (For you lurkers with an urge to get into reloading, this is NOT a SAFE starting point)

medicjim
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 03:41:27 (ZULU)

Sinister, I can't get to that link. Is there system down or is there another place I can see that? The curiosity is killin me.

Sarge, The shorter the barrel the faster your powder choice should be. In order to get the most velocity from the tube. I know it has been said but what the heck.

I talked to Chuck the other day and he seems to be taking it well. Said he wasn't "cleaned out" but enough missing to make it obvious something happened. I think he has a good grip on what needs done.

I cleaned out my storage building today. I'm beat now. Got rid of 121 lbs of 40 S&W brass and 600 pounds of scrap steel. Got a ton of crap I have been saving that I needs to tossed in the dumpster at work. BDU's that probly have rats moving in, old jungle boots, cassete tapes, plastic 4" fittings and crap like that. My wife made me(by that I mean she moved them) take my gun cases out of the living room. She stuck them in the reloading room. I moved one back in to the living room and put the others in the storage building. I stuck it beside the gun safe. I bet she will give up and conceed I need one in there.

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 04:17:15 (ZULU)

Sarge -

The powder to use in a .223 for 69SMK's, especially with a carbine barrel, is without a question 748. Start with 25 grains in either Winchester or LC cases and you'll get where you want to go.

But be very careful, 'cause 748 is VERY temperature sensitive and the load that you work up at mild temperatures will turn around and bite you on the ass in the heat of the summer.

Another powder that will give fine results is VV140, if you don't mind using the high-priced stuff. 25 gr. is a good starting point.

Oh, and before I forget, there's always good ol' H335! Start with about 24.5gr and work up. I use a hot load of 25.7gr. and get 3000fps out of a 20" barrel. It's a plenty fast enough powder to burn fully in a carbine barrel and should get you decent velocities.

Jerry C -

Anything wet that you put on that stock will make it darker. It's just a matter of degrees. That's just how it goes.

Minwax makes a clear sealer/stain called #209 Natural. It's clear and pretty good for what you want to do.

Have you considered a plain wax finish like the old timers used to use?

Melt 1/3 (by volume) natural beeswax - found in crafts stores like Hobby Lobby - 1/3 BLO - 1/3 turpentine and mix together while carefully heating until fully combined. Apply to the stock while still hot with some lintless cotton material and rub in well into the grain. Then burnish until it glows. It workee!!

ALAN
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 04:29:54 (ZULU)

Abandonment/Divorce Country- there's something no one has mentioned: GET NEW LOCKS NOW!!!!!!!!!!! For everything. If I'm beating a dead horse, sorry. I've learned too, there's a joint account I kick money into every month for mortgage, bills etc.

WR Moore
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 05:16:01 (ZULU)

Well, I learned some time back about the need for OPSEC, so I won't go into all I accomplished today, but it was a good chunk. There comes a moment of clarity when you realize that, as long as you hve enuff shekels to eat with, life can actually be pretty sweet.

One little vignette that just tickled the shit outta me. I was at the city Magistrate's office, booking some peckerwood, when my middle daughter's douchebag ex-live in came walking by....with the rest of the chain gang coming from araignment! HA! Double HA! I told him several years ago I'd see him either in Hell or jail, didn't care which came first. Auto theft....gave me that smarmy, hypocritical tone and asked me how the kids (my grandkids off this slimy piece of human offal) were, like he cared. The jailer was a mensch and let me push him in the holding cell and slam the door....geez. Now, if they'd just let me push the hypo plungers in too.....anyway, it made my day somewhat brighter.

Anyway, now that the hot, sick feeling you get when you get the wind punched outta you is wearing off, I'll be ok. All I hafta do now, is figure out how to keep her from getting my pension.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 06:01:55 (ZULU)

I enjoyed the J Ross web site - it was interesting. But no one is an expert in divorces. We just have the experiences of our own lessons.

I have been divorced twice. The first time, I was so happy just to be out of the relationship. I won't bore you with the story. It was bad stuff but it did not matter, compared to the new lease on life. I am not even mad. Just sad that the lesson cost 10 years. But I was lucky to have a second chance in life. It is a rare gift.

The second time the divorce was sadly necessary. Even our marriage counselor said that another 5 years of counseling would not make a difference. She wrote me a check afterwards just to be nice (symbolic?), gave me the house (she had three,) and we have remained best friends. She is the one person I can count on to do whatever is necessary to stop anyone from hurting me, regardless of the personal consequences to herself. And I would do the same for her. We share bank accounts, provide for each other in our wills, and she is always welcome here. She has more integrity than anyone I know.

I think it is just the difference in two people. It is not really about divorces per se. Some people stand by you no matter what, even when it seems a contradiction. Some can't. Don't lower yourself or become mean. Learn what you can, and be happy in spite of everything. And value the opportunity to remake your life. It is a gift that many people will envy, and few will ever have. Everything will be OK.

I realize that children add a different element. But in general, good people will put the kids first, and selfish people won't. And kids come back.

P. Hayden
USA - Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 06:50:34 (ZULU)

Got out to Cedarville CA - extreme NE for a varmint shoot. Critters out there are called Squeeks (Belding's Ground Squirrels I think). They look kind of like a 5"-9" prairie dog.

Wrung out the new Winny Coyote in 223 WSSM. I know that round has pooped out commercially but I picked up the SS/Lam Mod 70 for a song and found a place called Reed's Ammo that makes small batch ammo to order for really reasonable prices.

Anyway - that gun is a shooter! Was hitting the squeeks from about 140-240 yards all day long holding straight on. Had one hit at 340+ yards with a small hold over (4-5 inches).

Inside 150 yards (and sometimes out to about 170) used a 17 hmr Volquartsen. That was one fun day of shooting.

Couldn't be happier with the two rifles. Only thing I did to the Winny is set the trigger pull down and tighten the action to the stock properly. The rifle had some epoxy bedding from the factory but it must not have been seated or tightened down properly. When I first took it to the range the bolt was tough to lock into battery. After I did my trigger work and reset the action in the stock - it was much better.

Needless to say the VQ needed no work at all.

Both rifles were topped by 4.5-14 Conquest. The VQ has a 44mm obj and the Coyote has a 50mm obj. SWFA had some pretty good deals on these scopes (remans) on their sample list. Also brought my 17hmr Savage topped by a 4.5-14x44 Target Turret/Mil dot scope but it never made it out of its case on this trip.

The combo of a short range semi auto rim fire and a long range center fire was just about perfect for this type of shoot.

Also put to work on this trip were a set of Lupie Gold ring 10x binos and a Bushnell 1500 ARC LRF. These both worked out very well. The binos were our primary glass leaving my Meopta 20-60 scope left unused on its tripod. The LRF was pretty useful for the over 280 yard shots where some hold over was needed with the 223 and also in determining if the squeek in question was within 17hmr range. (didn't stop us from the occasional shot though - these usually turned into a chase and involved emptying the 9 rnd mag).

Anyway- this was my first real varmint shoot and I definitely recommend it as a really fun way to get your shooting skills up to snuff. I am hooked.

LTChip
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 10:08:37 (ZULU)

Well... I solved my scope problem (for the immediate project).

I found a mint (no marks) 6.5-20 Nikon UCC with the locking eyepiece and fine xhairs for chump change on ebay... I was the only one to bid on it - he spelled Nikon wrong - the starting (and only) bid was $175.

But I still don't know what to do in the future :(

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 11:07:19 (ZULU)

About women:

To quote Ron White,

"When you've seen one woman naked...you want to see the rest of them naked."

Hank
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 16:15:00 (ZULU)

I wish I could post pictures here. There is a picture of Nancy Pelosi with a scarf on her head in Syria that is guaranteed to make your head explode.

doug sickels
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, at 20:43:21 (ZULU)

Like I said the other day, I am busy. Damn cutting into my hunting time. our parent company (ArmorGroup) just won the contract for the embassy security in Kabul. Good for me, cause I get to have the American guys who are going over here to vet and train. I start the 3-week DM course next week. Looking forward to that. Then I get a weeks leave (3rd Force Recon RVN reunion) and back for the ERT guys for another 3 weeks.

Was told we might be going over there to train the guard force guys. And I thought my traveling days were over.

If any of you young bucks are interested drop your resume at resume@armorgroupamerica.com

Oh yeah, While I am at home, I get to meet my new grandson Drake. He checked in last week.

S/F

Finger

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 00:55:30 (ZULU)

Hey Alan ! Thanks!

I've never heard of that Ol' timers secret recipe! I think i might give it a whirl. :^}

I didnt get the 1/3 BLO though ? missed it.. what is it?

JerryC
Cypress, Tx, USA - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 01:25:12 (ZULU)

Hey Guys...

One of the other shooting websites has a petition to ban the deadly chemical, DiHydrogen MonOxide (DHMO).

This deadly substance MUST be outlawed.

Go here:

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/ban-dihydrogen-oxide.html

Sign the petition and save the world!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 01:32:32 (ZULU)

'lito,

You sneaky varmint. You almost had me! I love it. DiHydrogen MonOxide!! It must be truly addictive because it goes so well with with so many organic compounds. Johnny Walker Black and Knob Creek come to mind.

Cheers & Bottoms Up,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The chilly Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 01:44:44 (ZULU)

re: "Shooter" (2007):

Saw it tonight, didn't much resemble the overall structure of the book, but a fair story nonetheless. The technical details that I understand were well done.

Ultimate accolades for a Hollywood production - it didn't make me cringe.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 01:48:17 (ZULU)

Jerry,

BLO = boiled linseed oil good formula that works well

Calvin

PS mix is highly flammable use a double boiler to melt it

Calvin
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 02:20:28 (ZULU)

Just a reminder...linseed oil is notorious for spontaneous combustion...leave a contaminated rag laying around and you'll burn your house down.

medicjim
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 02:44:21 (ZULU)

Here is that link to Pelosi.. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070404/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_pelosi

or click on my name...

Finger, Congrats on the new Grandson.

Lito, Ok what the heck is DHMO? I understand I understand it is two Hydrogen atom and one Oxygen....... Crap disregard.. Just hit me.. I'm not a complete idiot. Just resemble one. HAHA...

Dirty Steve.........

DirtySteve
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 02:46:01 (ZULU)

By all means ban the nasty stuff. Fish copulate in it.

CDC'
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 03:00:07 (ZULU)

CDC...

>"By all means ban the nasty stuff. Fish copulate in it."<

Damn! I'm glad I don't let any of it get near me!

BRAVO!!! Give her a rest and come up for air. ;)))))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 05:12:00 (ZULU)

Nancy Pelosi America's new trator bitch. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17920536/

She went over ther and showed them how weak the Democreets are. She defied the President. And was used as a tool by those rag head SOB's. They know as long as the Demo's control anything in this country they will be safe to attack us and our friends with out threat of any serious consequenses. Gee what a great day for my father's previous political party. (He moved to another State and registered as a republican, even he couldn't take thier crap any more)

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 15:11:42 (ZULU)

Rod

I saw shooter also over the weekend. I recalled certain points from a book I read years ago. Such as removing the firing pins before he left. Was the book also called shooter?

And wasn't the big standoff in the book where he made his way to the top of a hill and was picking them off from there?

I liked the movie though. I almost never go, it takes a new sniper movie to get me out.

Here's something that shocked me though...

When I called about the movie times they also mentioned the regular price is $9.50 Seniors is $6.50.

I though Wow, Almost 10 bucks to get in...

The kid charged me $6.50

I'm still getting over that!

doug sickels
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 17:21:16 (ZULU)

doug sickels -

The title of the original Stephen Hunter book is 'Point of Impact". It was first published back in 1993, and re-released in 2007 with a new cover that shows a pic of Marky Mark carrying what looks like a PSS with a MK4 M1 on top and the word SHOOTER across the middle of the page.

And yeah, the big standoff was when Bob the Nailer wiped out a Salvadoran Spec Ops detachment from a hilltop hide who were sent to kill him by a rogue CIA contingent.

I haven't seen the flick yet, and will probably wait until it hits PPV on DirecTV.

I just don't think that Marky Mark can cut it as Swagger. As I've mentioned here before I'll always think of Marky Mark as Dirk Diggler!

ALAN
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 21:49:37 (ZULU)

Had the pleasure of meeting Stephen Hunter in 2002. He came to one of my civilian precision rifle classes at BW. Found him to be a very humble and pleasant man. He had a ton of questions and never stopped taking notes. Guess I will hafta go see the movie.

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 21:59:55 (ZULU)

Patron Mike, sorry for not getting with you sooner. Geoff isn’t taking work for a few more days (sling swivel studs installed), but I’ll get with you ASAP.

A Savage in 6.5X284, ready to roll? That’s speaking my language. It’s been a long time since I’ve been tempted by an ‘off the rack’ stick.

Pat, I know there are a lot of differences between sticks, but in my Swede with the 140 class bullets (I haven’t ever tried any of the Scenars through mine) I’ve been quite happy with the H4831SC. It outclassed 4350 and everything else I tried in my stick. I’ve been told (haven’t done this first-hand) that one of the Vihta 500 series powders worked really well. One guy I know uses RL22, but it never performed for me. I’ve also caught a nasty rumor that Hodgdons will be discontinuing their 4831SC, which doesn’t bode well for me.

Patron Kittywhacker, I bought the Aimpoint M3 through SWFA, just ‘cause of what they did for Major Santa. I was / am happy with mine. Oh, and if I did have one trapped, I wouldn’t bother posting here (GRIN).

Steve in Butte, about the HK, beware of getting too much oil on the recoil buffer. I was told that doing so might have been the reason mine kicked too much. Something about loading up the parts that are supposed to buffer with oil, making it more ‘solid’ in a hydrostatic kind of way. I sold mine before I heard of that, so on the current one I’ve got (which recoils like a pussycat) I keep oil away from the buffer. Scope mounts on the G3 / 91? Waste of time. Unless you like welding, this is an effort in frustration – check the archives. There are two different drums that I know of, it sounds like the one you have is the frog version with 4 apertures. The kraut version has a 100 yard cut-out, not an aperture. Those are plentiful and cheap, easy to switch out. On the FAL, DSA came out with a lower that is entirely too tempting to me. It comes complete with an M16A2 rear sight installed. Scoping battle rifles is a losing proposition, with the exception of the AR10 types. It can be done, but not with class and style. Of course, my perspective is more along the lines of ‘none of the best battle rifles work optimally with optics’, but then AR10 guys don’t like that kind of statement LOL!

Mars, welcome back!

Spotter / shooter relationships: I’ve always strived to function in the spotters position. Unfortunately, there are plenty of grassbellies that outperform me at that task. Everyone should have something to strive for, eh?

Divorce country: while I don’t post as often as I could (note I didn’t say ‘should’), I’ve been in contact with Chuck since day one. What does that prove? I lurk ;-) What is my perspective on things? Well, like Mr. Hayden noted, “no one is an expert in divorces. We just have the experiences of our own lessons.” Granted though that some of us have more lessons than others. If there were two things that I’d wish (the first being that no man would be forced to go through this, the second being that the black-robes would grow spines and disallow the purposefully malicious use of the lawyer system as a bludgeoning weapon) the main thing is that it’s all relative. What our great good friend Bruce went through had to have been the high mark, and as such proved that there are exceptions to the rule. Many of us have lived in the opposite extreme though demonstrating ‘the rule’. Just like ‘Lito, my mind automatically centered on full battle mode instantly, and that’s a learned response from getting hit between the eyes too many times, and too hard. We are products of our environment it would seem, which is evolutionary at least. Thus another quote from Nietzsche (from Beyond Good and Evil) “Do not look too deeply into the eyes of the monster, for in your battle, you may see yourself in them”. I might have messed up the quote a touch, but it’s close enough for gubmint work. That’s the thing about bridges, it takes years and years to build one, slews of effort, sweat, and time. All it takes is one jerk with no real intentions and a few minutes of idle time to use a careless match and bring it all down ‘because it felt like the thing to do at the time’. While I’m all for self protection, I hesitate to be the fellow that says ‘go ahead and drop the lit match’.

As for me though, my decision is plain at this point: CDC’ posted exactly that, until I am ‘told otherwise’. While I have nothing but great wishes for Kent and his new bride (and I have a great deal of faith in both of them due to the circumstances surrounding the situation), I’m waiting on a similar revelation. Until that time, rental is fine with me.

Bravo
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 22:24:10 (ZULU)

I thought Marky MARK did a good job.Hes one of my favorite actors.

Jon Kujawa
Wednesday, April 4, 2007, at 22:45:52 (ZULU)

Thanks Alan, that's the book I read.

I thought he did a good job in the movie also, but if you notice, each scene that was shot with other people they shot from an angle that made him appear to not be short. He is short right?

doug sickels
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 00:09:51 (ZULU)

Jim:

I've enjoyed Stephen Hunter's books. You have to be very careful about going to movies based on an author you like. It is very rare that a movie bears much resemblence to the book. "Shooter" was a good movie, but only bore a vague resemblence to some of the elements of the book.

Case in point, Clive Cussler's legal tussle with the producers of "Sahara".

Tom Clancy has not been very happy with the movie versions of several of his books too.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 01:47:52 (ZULU)

Midway has Kimber 1911 mags cheap. How good are they?

Movies from books: Let's take the case of making the movie Troy from "The Iliad". The producers had to "fix the story". Um hmm, the story overpowers readers for, what, thirty two centuries? and some Hollywood nitwit decides it needs to be fixed.

Brad Pitt is Achilles?

Not on his best day.

CDC'
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 02:21:09 (ZULU)

Doug:

Mark Wahlberg is 5'7"

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000242/bio

The median height of an average American Male is 5'9".

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 02:33:26 (ZULU)

Rod

I guess 5'7" is relatively short. He did do a good job in the movie.

The point in the movie when he heard they killed his dog...

If I heard that, I'd do what he did if I was capable. People deserve to die more than dogs do. There are just some things you don't do.

You kill my dog, you're a dead man, one way or the other.

doug sickels
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 02:56:45 (ZULU)

The problem that I have with casting Marky Mark in the role of Bob Lee Swagger is that it totally misses the point of the entire 'Bob the Nailer' series that Hunter was trying to get across.

Written in 1993, the book focused on the alienation of an entire generation of American men who went off to war in VN carrying their high ideals with them, and who returned disillusioned with the society that they felt had betrayed them. Swagger was said to have been 'retired' from the Corps in 1975 as a Gunny. Now how many Gunny's do you know that are much under 30 years of age? That should put Swaggers age at what, around 48, when the book was written?

The physical resemblence isn't there either. Swagger is described as tall, well over 6ft., and lean almost to the point of being skinny. No, it's obvious that Hollywood cast Marky in the Swagger role to appeal to the young kids who make up the vast majority of moviegoers. Well, I suppose that this movie wouldn't even have been made if the script closely resembled the book. Too bad :(

Of course, we all know what other liberties the producers took in the name of diversity! I think that I'll stick to the printed page.

ALAN
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 03:14:48 (ZULU)

CDC,

The stainless 7 round mag that came with my Kimber works just fine. I mainly use Wilson Combat because they hold 8 rounds.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The frosty Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 04:11:02 (ZULU)

Click my name. Good stuff. The ten-pump BB gun one makes me think of 'lito.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 05:57:01 (ZULU)

CDC, Kimbers mags look at lot like Metal Form mags. I hvave seen both side by side and thats my opinion. Metalforms are good. Mec-Gars have also worked well for me try looking here. http://www.ajaxgrips.com/ajax/colt

I would not get the Mc Cormick mags. I have seen them break. They replaced them but it shouldn't happen. Try Clark Custom too. http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/1911mags.htm

If you call them to order let them know what price they have on the internet. They will honor it. They are getting ready for a price increase.

Chuck, The package arrived

Dirty Steve......

Dirty Steve
Mico, TX, USA - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 05:57:02 (ZULU)

Guys,

The movie was good IMO. I was not happy to see how far from the book it had been altered. I guess its hard to make a movie based on a book, and keep the movie down to about 2 hours. They left a ton of stuff outta the movie.

I read that Mark W. went to Front Sight to learn about shooting rifles. At least they made an attempt to add some reality to the flick.

In the movie Swagger meets Ms. Fenn in Keene City Kentucky. There is a town named Keene that I drive thru on my way to the 3 Gun shoots. Little bitty place too. Although that scene looks like it could have been shot in Kentucky I donn't think they filmed any part of shooter in this state.

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 06:35:07 (ZULU)

89 hours..........31 minutes...............17 seconds..........without a smoke............ARGHH

Right now I could rip a smoker's head off and suck the nicotine tainted blood from his bloody neck stump. The Chantix no-smoking medicine is not a cure all but it damn sure is helping.

Bolt, a little shakey and out!

Bolt
Please blow smoke in my face in..................., NC, - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 10:32:20 (ZULU)

Boltster...

Hang in there, Dude.

Those damn sticks killed both of my parents, twenty years before their time - killed both of my uncles and my favorite aunt too!

Damn dumbassed Texicans - couldn't rope a calf, take a shower, or make love without a cigarette hangin' out of their mouff :(((

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 10:56:57 (ZULU)

Bravo

I use a lot of H4227, and that has been discontinued, but the new IMR4227 is the old H4227. The new can has to say Made in Australia and packaged in the U.S.A. I just wonder if Hogdon isn't getting rid of the duplicate numbers between IMR and HOGDON? I'll have to find out, becuase i use H4831 various calibers.I really like that powder.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 11:40:30 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Your experiences mirror mine with powders for the 6.5x55. I could not get RL-22 to shoot or VV N-160 which are suppose to be the sweetheart powders for the 6.5x55s.

I have had a few decent groups with the 4831SC and the 4350SC with the 139 Lapuas shooting at 400 to 600yds. I just have not been able to get it to shoot as consistant as I would like. I know part of its been the weather when I am out shooting I have to constantly fight the damn wind. I have not had any good weather to speak of since I got it back so I am still playing around with it. I have a load of 4831 and one of 4350 to try out when the weather settles down some.

Everytime I try to load test I get a couple of groups down range and the wind starts coming up and switching around all over the place. I don't like load testing at 100yds with a long range rifle. I have had several groups that are in the .5moa range so I just need to replicate it a couple more times to know its not a fluke group. Thanks for the tips hope all is well with you!!

Pat
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 13:25:11 (ZULU)

Bolt, I recommend you go shooting tomorrow. Since you don't normally smoke when you shoot. (or do you) you would not associate the activity with smoking. Hang in there my Dad only smoked for about 55 years. And he kind of gave it up. No he's not dead he just smokes one or two cigarettes a day but don't tell mom I told you. She would kill him. I kinda hope I am in his condition, health wise when I get in my 70's. Hell his mom is still live. Grand Dad is gone but he was 45 years older than Granny when they narried. (Yes 45 yrs) You all know I am originally from West Virginia. He was cast out of the family for marring outside the family. Ha Ha Lil hillbilly joke there. Or was it? Anyway hang tough.

Well gonna go burn a Romeo & Julieta Reserve now.(actually gunna burn it at lunch time)

Dirty Steve.............

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 15:49:36 (ZULU)

Bolt,

It will get better as time passes. I went cold turkey after 45 years of Lucky Strikes. ;o( Docter told me to quit smoking when he put in a stent. Said I would be back in about two years if I didn't quit. I actually did not hear him say that; but my wife did. Two years later, while still burning 2 or 3 packs a day, I flunked my stress test. After the triple by-pass I heard him loud and clear! The cravings still hit on rare occassions; but they don't last. It has been over five years and I still haven't had one.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 16:42:12 (ZULU)

For the physical apperance of "Bob the Nailer" I would have chosen either, Billy Bob Thornton or Clint Eastwood.

However Danial Craig of the current James Bond movies may have had the "MOVIE" apperance and the attitude.

bomac
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 16:52:06 (ZULU)

Pretty nice Rem. 700 Long Action thumbhole stock going too cheap. Click.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 17:18:33 (ZULU)

Billy Bob would have been perfect.

Bolt! Regarding the smoking thing.

If your still breathing good, be very thankful.

I stopped last July, then I developed this breathing difficulty, for months. Bad coughing etc..

I thought to myself, shit if only I stopped earlier.

Well, long story short, the congestion turned out to be an allergy thing. I thought it was lung scarring, chronic bronchitis, or any of quite a few nasty things. It's not bad all all now relatively, comes and goes with the seasons I guess (never used to have anything like that at all) Had a chest xray, everything is fine and clear.

The point being, stop now while you can still save your breath. You don't someday want to be on oxygen or fighting for air. You would regret it the rest of your life.

Just breathe! And feel good about it.

Doug sickels
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 17:38:10 (ZULU)

Doug...

>"The point being, stop now while you can still save your breath. You don't someday want to be on oxygen or fighting for air. You would regret it the rest of your life."<

Ju got that right - my mom carried one of those oxygen bottles everywhere she went for the last ten years of her life, And had to sleep with oxygen tubes connected to her nose - BADD way to die!

Only person that deserves to die like that is Sarah Bradey !!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 18:15:08 (ZULU)

5'7'' not that short,Im 5'7".I like my height.

Jon Kujawa
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 18:45:12 (ZULU)

Jk -

" 5'7" not that short, I'm 5'7". I like my height."

Not a damn thing wrong with being 5'7" Jon!

But you wouldn't fit playing the role of Bob the Nailer either ;))

ALAN
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 19:42:06 (ZULU)

Alan,

Just got my barreled action back for my M40 project. I may shoot it before I send it off to be parkerized to see how it shoots. Its a good thing its getting parkerized because the barrel is a little on the rough side.

I had a new smith do this one and before the other smiths have always polished out the barrels when they come with a rough outside finish, he didn't. It was damn quick turnaround though I sent it out to him last friday and got it back today!!! I will keep you posted. Once again thanks for all your help on this project!!!

Pat
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 20:19:07 (ZULU)

I feel much better about Nancy Pelosi's trip to Syria now that I know Jimmy Carter backs it.

We are so screwed.

Lito, my father had a horrible last 10 years or so also. Fighting for each breath, oxygen 24/7. Hear this Bolt? You can do it!

I made a resolution to myself that when the first nuke goes off in anger, I'm gonna smoke a cigar and possibly continue.

doug sickels
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 20:35:57 (ZULU)

Doug:

Of course, if you're anywhere near detonating nukes, smoking will probably be the least of your problems :-)

Earlier discussion in rec.guns for casting the "Bob the Nailer" role favoured Tommy Lee Jones. Right attitude, right accent, even right age for a VN vet (born in 1946).

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000169/

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 21:42:18 (ZULU)

Back from Tulsa gun show...Wow what a good show! Now it's time to plow into the Spring ASC........................

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 22:05:41 (ZULU)

CDC...Buy Wilson Mags and don't look back..I'M using some that have to be twenty years old and are still just fine; and, they work in any of my guns...For whatever reason, the only other mags I've ever owned that are as reliable as Wilson's are a bunch of satin nickle Colt mags purchased in the late '70s. Don't know who made them for Colt but they are really good.......

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 22:25:20 (ZULU)

Pat -

I think that most 'smiths would have either polished or bead blasted the barrel before sending it back to you just to get rid of the marks left by the barrel vise, etc., but what the heck, the turnaround time was great and the metal finisher will want to media blast it before Parkerizing anyway. I hope it shoots well for you.

Be sure to keep us posted on its progress. It's a fun project, isn't it?

Bolt -

You can do it! I had been smoking Pall Mall straights for 23 years and finally quit back in 1983. Haven't had even one cigarette since! It was kinda tough at first, but I learned not to change anything while I was going through the withdrawal. Went to the same bars on Friday nights with my buds, only I didn't light up while guzzling my beer. Drank lots of coffee every morning like I always did, only I didn't accompany it with a smoke.

Ate breakfast, lunch, and dinner the same as always, only I didn't have a smoke afterwards. Same for sex ;))

It's so worth it. You'll live much longer, and when you finally croak it won't be with an oxygen hose up your nose sucking for breath like you were 50 feet underwater. And, after a short while, you'll be able to go up and down that elk mountain like you haven't been able to since you can't remember when.

ALAN
Thursday, April 5, 2007, at 22:31:14 (ZULU)

Rod, I don't care if I'm 12,000 miles from a 1 kiloton with the wind in my favor. Long as it's part of an agression scheme, I'm smokin'.

Click my name for another head buster photograph, if you think you can stomach it.

doug sickels
Friday, April 6, 2007, at 01:11:36 (ZULU)

Doug,

Whats so surprising about that photo of Pelosi shaking hands with the President of Syria? The only thing missing is her burka. We all know that the looney left wing liberals absolutely love the enemies of America. Jimmy Carter has never met a dictator he just didn't love. Pelosi openly hates President Bush, but is all giggles when she meets our enemies. The bottom line is that all of the whacko liberals, and their lying media are corrupt beyond comparison. They have set a new standard for treason, and not many people seem to give a damn anymore.

Bolt,

I quit smoking several times. I finally realized that the reasons I failed previously is because I didn't really want to quit. I was doing it because: it was the right thing, or somebody else wanted me to. When I finally quit because I wanted to there was never a question of success. But I only smoked for ten years. I weened myself off the cigs, booze, and coffee. It took me about a month or so if I recall. Been almost 30yrs since I had a smoke, or been drunk. I work the night shift, and sometimes have a coffee if I get held over past quitting time. You can do it too.

Best regards,

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 02:29:34 (ZULU)

A high level Iranian agent is released by our ally and two days later Iran "forgives" 15 Brit hostages. Just a coincidence. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Kissing that little fanatic's ass will just give us a bigger fight later. The Turks have a saying; "Kill a snake while it is small."

It ain't getting any smaller.

markwell: Wilson 8-rounders have served me well, but high end Kimbers for $75 per 5 is a hard deal to pass up.

CDC'
Friday, April 6, 2007, at 04:11:00 (ZULU)

Bolt,

Smoked for 35 years and went cold turkey on Jan 1st, 1998. Haven't had one since. It was kinda tough for a while but I did it. The real pisser is I wound up with lung cancer in 2004. But it looks like I'm beatin' that too. Quit before it's too late. Just takes some will power.

CDC,

Ditto on the Wilson mags. Can't beat 'em.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 05:15:00 (ZULU)

Looking at that dried-up old douchebag, I'm of a mind to think that the reason she's got that big, scatological grin on her face is that Asshat is probably the biggest dick she's ever had that tight a grip on in her whole life. Assuming, of course, that she's ever actually known anyone that has one. Sheesh. I'm gonna go reread 'Term Limits' by Vince Flynn.....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 05:40:39 (ZULU)

We grabbed an Iranian operative in Iraq. Iran grabbed 15 Brits and offered a trade. We took it.

Net result: Iran can operate all they want in Iraq.

How's that going to work.

CDC'
Friday, April 6, 2007, at 13:56:00 (ZULU)

Krauthammer says the same thing. Great minds? Not really. If we see it, everybody else does too.

We backed down from a nothing little school-yard bully and the whole world watched.

We should have...

...it doesn't matter. We didn't.

CDC'
Friday, April 6, 2007, at 14:40:27 (ZULU)

Pelosi violated the Logan Act. Most "ethical administration"? I think not. She is now a felon. Time for an investigation, trial and removal. Tom Delay had to resign for less. Every time that bitch smiles, she looks like a 'possum passing a peach pit.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 15:12:49 (ZULU)

"Smiling like a possum passing a peach pit" You got me laughing so hard I'm gagging.

doug sickels
Friday, April 6, 2007, at 16:56:57 (ZULU)

Charles,

Logan Act? Never heard of it. When was that passed? Gonna have to see if I can find it online.

All liberals think they are the most ethical people on earth. Anyone that would dare challenge the liberal opinion will be labeled as a right wing whacko by the corrupt liberal media. It probably doesn't matter if Pelosi violated the Logan Act, or has committed a felony, because the media won't ever report anything to harm her. She's of the protected elite class. She could personally deliver plutonium to the terrorists, and would still have support of her liberal base. Bill Clinton transferred top secret missile technology to the Chinese, and he's still adored by the liberal whackos. The media never said anything of substance about that either.

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 20:57:12 (ZULU)

OK brief synopsis of the Logan Act. Pretty interesting!

§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply himself, or his agent, to any foreign government, or the agents thereof, for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

18 U.S.C. § 953 (2004).

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 21:25:52 (ZULU)

Had a backset at 5 days, 4 hours and roughly thirty minutes (about an hour ago). Really crappy day. Went out on the deck and took three drags off one and then put it out. Tasted like crap.......not that great taste that I used to get......must be a side effect of the meds. Now an hour later and I'm beating myself up for letting myself down. But, over 5 days with only three drags versus the 10 packs I would have normally smoked is at least a small victory.

I'm learning alot about this medicine from many successful quitters that used it.

First, don't follow the instructions. Go at least two full weeks before the quit date, especially if you're a large person.

Second, time your doses to coincide with the times you enjoyed smoking the most minus about an hour and a half. That will put the drug in the blood stream when it needs to be there.

Third, you have to eat something, even if it is a couple of pieces of bread when you take the pills + drink lots of water or other liquids.

Lastly, the stuff WILL work, I'm almost proof of this. I didn't want to quit and only had motivation because the hospital went tobacco free on the entire campus. I'm now wanting to quit and finding it 1000 times easier than my last 11 tries with all other methods. With the exception of this setback, the meds take care of most of the anxiety and waves of craving that I have had. I also learned that it is better NOT to use nicotine supplements.

Compared to Zyban/Wellbutrin this stuff has no side effects except for nausea if you don't eat something. I haven't had any problems sleeping but I have been dreaming more than normal. Some of the dreams I have to say are pretty good! Plus, I have noticed that I'm smelling a few more things and spices really taste more spicey than they used to. One drawback on the smell thing is that farts REALLY stink.

Well my confession is over and it is good for the soul. Wish me continued luck and I appreciate your comments and support.

Bolt, trying to be a successful quitter (which makes no sense?) and out!

Bolt
Farts smell different..........in , NC, - Friday, April 6, 2007, at 22:50:11 (ZULU)

Hello All -

Long time since a post....

1. Snow in bound for Northern VA this weekend....ooookay... Ya- AlGore--- you're right on target - LOL.

2. Logan Act:

Scene1:

President Bush: (dials Pelosi's extension)

Pelosi Answers: Hello Mr. President

Bush: Nancy - hey - hope all's well with ya today. You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be......"

Scene2:

Bush: (dials Jimmy Carter's phone)

Jimmy: Yeyass Mistuh President

Bush: Jimmy - If your name appears in print or on a travel manifest in any way to appear or speak in any fashion - I will have you arrested and charged with treason. Think I'm kidding - Here's Nancy's number xxx.xxx.xxx"

3. CDC: An item that scares me about our electoral system - is that the power of stupidity is reaching critical mass... or @ least the passive non-stupid are allowing them to reach critical mass....

4. Any of you Hawgs out there have .41 Magnum stuff, bullets, parts, etc - firearms as well - hit me via email..... (why - cuz I like it - that's why).

5. Bolt: Stay with it friend -- that Grandbaby needs a mentor - Your country needs you at your best.

I guess I'm in a rambling mood today.... time for a rifle raffle anyway....

Take care all - Have a BLESSED Easter Weekend...

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 00:33:35 (ZULU)

Sniper stuff on History Channel..............

Bolt
Screw em all except Fox News Network!, NC, - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 01:02:24 (ZULU)

"like a Opossum passing a peach pit" Dammit, that's funny, especially since I opened the front door last week to go to work and surprised one on the front porch. Come to think of it, it did look alot like Nancy.

Ken, I saw one of the rifles you'll be raffling off for Americansnipers.org last week. It's really sweet. Of course, we'll have to test fire it for accuracy. :)

Do any of you use suppressors on your precision rifles? Do you have mirage problems after about 3 or 4 rounds? Check out the video of the suppressor covers I make. A customer posted the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UECsUQD2a5U

YouTube - Rapid Fire Test of the PDC AR-10 SASS

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America, what's it to ya! - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 01:25:56 (ZULU)

Bolt

It sounds like your fighting the quiting thing. Most times I guess, when people quit, they have some kind of scare. When you fight the quitting thing, it might be coming from outside sources, not that I'm any kind of expert but is it being pressured on you?

I'm not trying to get personal or be a psychologist but thats my take on it. If I was being somehow pressured to quit... it ain't gonna happen. If it's my decision it's a different thing.

Anyway I'm rootin' for you. Remember some of the earlier posts from everyone here.

Hang in there.

It may sound funny, but one of my inspirations for quitting was my dog, Jake.

Sometimes I'd be sitting around with him and admire the fact that he doesn't need anything else. He's just happy doin' what he does. Staying by my side, looking everything, just happy to be there as is. And the thought that even on my death bed, he could make me feel good.

And I didn't want it to come to that, at least because of smoking.

Anyway, we care here at Sniper Country.

Not only that but what if you have to chase down one of these muslim bastards? You gotta have the wind to do it.

That thought of Nancy Pelosi smiling looks like a possum passing a peach pit cracked me up all day, it still does, I gotta thank you for that.

doug sickels
Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 02:09:21 (ZULU)

Bolt, Don't Quit, quitting! That would make you a >>>>> Um, Quitter? Stick to it.

Bad thing about the farts stinkin more. But from now on spending a weekend with the guys you will be qualified to judge the stinky fart contest that will take place at some point.

Dirty Steve...............

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 07:38:23 (ZULU)

Reloading country - priming

I'm looking at using a hand-primer for my .308 Win reloading.

I would like a system that doesn't require that I handle individual primers and doesn't require sitting at the reloading bench.

I'm using the press-mounted Lee Auto-Prime II system at the moment.

I'm considering the handheld Lee AUTO-PRIME product.

Sinclair International sell it, they normally don't sell junk.

Experiences, thoughts?

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1175946350.2931=/html/catalog/primtool.html

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 12:50:20 (ZULU)

I have one of Tony's can covers on the suppressor of my AI. It rocks - and it has a very high CDI factor.

His rifle covers are excellent, too. Simple, easy-on easy-off, but protects the rifle from wind-blown dirt and, as some of the winter ASC competitors discovered, snow.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 12:52:08 (ZULU)

rod r.,

I've used a hand type Lee auto-prime as long as I've been reloading. It has never given me any problems. When or if it ever wears out I'll go buy another.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The frigid Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 13:24:17 (ZULU)

rod regier: I've used the Lee tool for 180 years. It isn't made to the standards of one of the high $$$ tools, but it does the job. A few suggestions;

Check around for prices. D&R or Midsouth are good places to start.

Lube the Lee tool with a little graphite powder. If you don't, the plastic tends to gall against the plated metal.

Buy two. When one dies - or when you need parts - you won't have to wait around.

If you are going to load both small and large primers, buy a tool for each.

If you don't have a BIG flipper tray, buy one. Dillon's is good.

Tweezers are handy.

Pay attention to how each primer goes into the little feed slot. Sometimes they flip and you seat a primer upside down. PITA.

Be nice to it and it will last a long time, but it isn't as durable as it could be.

CDC'
Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 13:34:01 (ZULU)

Scopes:

Stumbled across Zeiss riflescopes being sold thru AMAZON.COM.

This looked interesting:

http://www.amazon.com/Zeiss-3-5-10x44mm-Conquest-Rifle-BlackMODEL/dp/B000LJUSXO/ref=sr_1_24/104-1134257-9335909?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1175949271&sr=1-24

Zeiss 3.5-10x44mm MC Conquest Rifle Scope Matte BlackMODEL: Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44 MC Rifle Scope Matte Black w/ ZRF Reticle Model 5214209958

you adjust windage and elevation with a finger's touch, and without wasting time fishing for a coin or tool. With Zeiss' quick focus...

$US650 (Optics Planet is ultimate retailer).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 13:41:19 (ZULU)

Lebanon's "Daily Star" on Pelosi's fatuous grandstanding:

"We can thank the US speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, for having informed Syrian President Bashar Assad, from Beirut, that "the road to solving Lebanon's problems passes through Damascus." Now, of course, all we need to do is remind Pelosi that the spirit and letter of successive United Nations Security Council resolutions, as well as Saudi and Egyptian efforts in recent weeks, have been destined to ensure precisely the opposite: that Syria end its meddling in Lebanese affairs.

"Pelosi embarked on a fool's errand to Damascus this week, and among the issues she said she would raise with Assad - when she wasn't on the Lady Hester Stanhope tour in the capital of imprisoned dissidents Aref Dalila, Michel Kilo, and Anwar Bunni - is "the role of Syria in supporting Hamas and Hizbullah." What the speaker doesn't seem to have realized is that if Syria is made an obligatory passage in American efforts to address the Lebanese crisis, then Hizbullah will only gain. Once Assad is re-anointed gatekeeper in Lebanon, he will have no incentive to concede anything, least of all to dilettantes like Pelosi, on an organization that would be Syria's enforcer in Beirut if it could re-impose its hegemony over its smaller neighbor."

CDC'
Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 14:25:35 (ZULU)

" rod regier: I've used the Lee tool for 180 years. It isn't made to the standards of one of the high $$$ tools, but it does the job. A few suggestions;..."

Damn Dan I know you were a senior member of the board, but reloading for 180 years, WOW, that is a long time!!

LOL

Jerry

Jerry
Annapolis, MD, USA! - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 14:57:07 (ZULU)

CDC:

Appreciate the review of the Lee Auto Prime.

Most of the US firearms accessories suppliers won't ship even tools to Canada these days, they don't want to deal with any possible issues on the ITAR rules. Midsouth today has a complicated process for orders and payment for even non-ITAR sales:

International Orders

All international orders must be faxed to us with signature!

We cannot ship liquids or aerosols except in pallet quantities by ocean freight only. Barrels, bullets, brass, powders, primers, ammunition, muzzleloaders, air guns and frames are all regulated by United States export laws. There may also be other regulated merchandise in your country. All of these items require an import license from your country and we must also apply for a license to export to you. All import and export license must have exact information (in English) and a minimum of $300.00 U.S.D. for us to apply for an export license.

Example (must be exact information):

specific manufacturer

specific model

part number

complete and full description

quantities

shipping arrangements

Please contact your local post office for further restrictions. There is no freight issued on return goods. Most repairs and or replacements are via manufacturer. All fees for customs are the responsibility of the customer. All money transactions must be through a U.S. bank and in U.S. dollars. International orders will be shipped by Postal Service, UPS or Federal Express (FedEx). To expedite delivery, FedEx may not charge you tax, customs, and duty fees at the time of delivery. You will see a separate charge for these on your credit card after FedEx notifies us of these amounts.

All international orders must be filled out on Midsouth's order form, signed and faxed. After reviewing your order we will determine whether we will accept a credit card payment. If we cannot, you can make arrangements for other payment methods. You may send wire transfers to:

Regions Bank

2155 Lowes Drive

P.O. Box 30277

Clarksville, TN 37041

Account #: 3601286770

Routing Transit#: 062005690

Swift/BIC Address: UPNBUS44

World Outdoor Resources, LLC.

Clarksville, TN

Due to the high volume of credit card fraud, it becomes necessary for us to take these precautions with a longer procedure, and allows us to provide our low prices. As an older customer, you will probably have no trouble paying with a credit card. New customers will need to either pay with a money order or cashiers check in U.S. funds or a wire transfer to our account for a period of one year. Once the order has been received, we will try to determine the best way to ship the items you have requested. You will be contacted with the quote. There will be a 10% paper work & filing fee on all orders. This fee will not exceed $20.00 USD. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

The other issue is that trans-border shipping is painful if UPS is used as the carrier. There are good alternatives, but most US suppliers have a UPS fetish because it is a nice domestic solution.

A bitter joke among Canadian residents dealing with US suppliers:

"If you want it in the worse possible way, have it shipped UPS, the worse possible way."

Fortunately, I have Canadian retailers who deal in Lee products, including Higginson Powders who have discounted pricing on Lee products that are very competitive with the US source places like Midsouth, etc. They are the Canadian distributor for Lee Precision.

http://www.higginsonpowders.com/pages/934272/index.htm

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 15:41:38 (ZULU)

Guys,

Just listed a buttload of BRAND NEW holsters, duty belts, a NEW T/C walnut stock, and other stuff in the emporium. Prices are OBO. I got a bunch of stuff from a gunshop closeout off of E-bay. If I make enough, I'm finally gonna get a good scope or rangefinder!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, April 7, 2007, at 16:21:17 (ZULU)

Hawgs -

Some fairly new industry developments (at least they're new to me) -

Remington Arms Co. has very recently been sold to a group of captial venture people. I figured this might inject some new money and thinking into a company that has been floundering.

The bad news is - they intend to keep the old management team intact!

Hornady is manufacturing a 208 (or is it 207?) grain .30 caliber A-Max bullet that is supposed to be all over the 210SMK at the longer ranges. Any of you Hawgs had a chance to try it out yet?

The Nikon Tactical scope lineup that has been off the market for awhile has been reintroduced as the "Monarch X". Street prices are supposed to be lower than the older lineup.

The new Bushnell 4200 Elite Tactical 6-24x50 SF 30mm scope is now available from several sources. I've seen in-stock quoted prices as low as $525.

Loopy has catalogued their 8.5-25x50mm Mk4 LR/T M1 scope in a FFP (front focal plane) reticle version for 2007. I've got no idea of their pricing as I don't intend to buy any new Leupold's unless things drastically change :(

ALAN
Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 00:03:10 (ZULU)

175SMK vs Milk Jug

I set up some milk jugs at 650 yards yesterday. Using the 175SMK in the 308, I was disappointed when there was no dramatic explosion of water when I hit a jug. The bullets passed through, only causing a 2” split on one side of the jug. It didn’t even tip over the jug. The jug drained out and the other shots passed through air. I now have personal experience that the SMK meets the Geneva convention requirements as a non-expanding bullet.

Scott Smith
Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 02:16:19 (ZULU)

ALAN,

The Hornady 208 grain A-Max (.648 b.c.) does very well in a .300WSM being pushed by 68 grains of RL22. Have only shot it at 600 but had damn good results. I haven't had a chance to chrono the load but (if I haven't screwed up my scope somehow or lost track of where things are) based on comeups I'm getting close to 3200fps out of 'em. Hopefully, I'll have a chance on Monday to get a verified m.v. and let you know.

Everybody have a Happy Easter.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 05:27:33 (ZULU)

Scott:

Martin Fackler discussed using a small drill bit to slightly open the tips of the 168g SMK's to improve terminal performance if that is useful to you. Contra-indicated for serving military.

http://bajaarizona.org/fklr/fklr.html

"Dr. Martin L. Fackler, in the same issue of the journal, reported that these bullets will commonly break up after 7 inches of penetration. His experiments indicated that when the cavity was increased in diameter to 0.055 inch by a drill, reliable expansion was obtained after penetrating less than one inch of 10% gelatin or muscle. Recent controlled testing has demonstrated that this alteration degrades accuracy by no more than 0.1 MOA - an insignificant amount."

It's actually the Hague Conventions that establish rules for small arms ammunition performance in armed conflicts.

http://www.thegunzone.com/hague.html

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 08:15:47 (ZULU)

New Bob Lee Swagger novel (by Stephen Hunter) in the pipeline!

"The 47th Samurai"

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0743238095/sportsreccommuni

11-Sep-2007 sched release date

author Stephen Hunter commented on the upcoming Bob Lee Swagger novel "The 47th Samurai" during a live Washington Post online chat on March 27, 2007:

Stephen Hunter: Why, I'm glad you asked. Yes, the new book is a result of my well-documented (in WaPo) absorbtion in Samurai movie culture. It's called "The 47th Samurai: A Bob Lee Swagger novel," and it takes Bob to Japan in search of the sword his father recovered on Iwo that has gone missing under extremely violent circumstances. He finds himself matched against some totally bad but cool yakuza killers and the action jumps all over Tokyo. It ends with what I had hoped to be (you guys will have to tell me if I brought it off) the coolest, most realisitc one-on-one to the death sword fight in print. The book is from S&S in September.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 09:04:06 (ZULU)

jc -

Thanks for the info. I've got to admit that 3200 MV sounds a bit optimistic for that load, but I'll reserve judgement until you get a chance to chrono it. Please let us know the results. I've got a .300WM Sharpshooter II in need of an upgrade from its usual 190SMK diet.

rod regier -

Oh no! Not another chop-socky epic! With the commercial success of Shooter they're most likely already negotiating the screen rights for this Samauri novel. Let me guess - Quentin Tarrantino is probably the front runner. Probably change the title to "Kill Bob" ;)

Did I say how much I hate this chop-socky drivel? To put it mildly, I'll take a pass on this one!

ALAN
Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 16:59:04 (ZULU)

Alan:

At least you know in advance. I'm guessing SH wanted a break in the gunfight epics.

No comment on tne release date? (which I think is just co-incidence).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 19:25:05 (ZULU)

I suspect that Leupold made their 8.5-25x50mm the next Leupold FFP scope, after the 3.5-10X40M3, to compete with the Schmidt & Bender 5-25X56 PMII - which, of course, it doesn't, except to people unwilling to pony up the valuta for the S&B, but with price increases in the Leupold line, the S&Bs seem to be selling pretty well.

And the trouble is that just as the FFP is a waste in the 3.5-10, because the power is too small, it's a waste in the 8.5-25, because the power is too high for a fighting scope.

However, since I own two Leupold 6.5-20X50M1 scopes with Premier FFP GenII reticles, and one 4.5-14X50M1 with Premier FFP GenII reticle, I don't much care. The Gen II is notably superior to either a straight mildot or the TMR anyway.

The 4.5-14 is a superior power range for either military or police sniping, if they can't make a scope with a 4:1 zoom range - and one wonders why not, since both S&B and U.S. Optics do better than that.

Perhaps they don't take the military and police tactical market seriously.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 19:46:18 (ZULU)

Anyone have a CZ550 Safari? Opinions? I'm looking into getting a 416 Rigby and this looks like the best choice for the $. I'd consider rebarreling a Sako TRG-S, but why bother when I can get a factory CZ. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 20:35:26 (ZULU)

Lindy, while my current old eyes support your rule that 3.5-10 is too low for FFP reticle use, just a couple of years ago these worked fine for me. I still think the FFP Reticle has a place in military circles where guys have good eyes.

Alan, the new prices form Leupold left me going "How much"? They make an excellent scope but the price is nearly double what it was less than ten years ago. The company tends to cycle between bean counters and shooters. This time I think bean counters have the helm. Thats too bad for all of us.

Undude/Mike

MikeMiller
Ca, - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 21:02:15 (ZULU)

Click. This ought to piss you off. Crazy Bitch!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 21:31:09 (ZULU)

Ken M -

A good friend bought a CZ550 Safari in .505 Gibbs last summer in anticipation of an African trip. So far, all that he's been doing with it is working up some loads to take on the hunt. He says that he likes the rifle and hasn't mentioned anything in particular that bothers him about it. This guy also has CZ magnum action based rifles in .338 Lapua and one of the big Lazzeroni's (I forget which).

Is there anything specific that you want to know about his? I'll be happy to ask and get back with you. I either talk to him on the phone or shoot with him several times a week. I'll have to be the middle man on this, 'cause he's purposely computer illiterate. Probably all that recoil ;))

Mike -

Yeah, I've got to agree with you about the bean counters at Leupold. What they've been up to for the last couple of years just might hurt the company real bad. But maybe not! We're a real small segment of their market. Perhaps they just don't give a damn. On the other hand, I don't think that any company can survive forever in todays consumer oriented marketplace with that kind of attitude. Just look at Ford and GM for an example.

I used to buy Loopys, and still own five REAL Mk4's, a Premier LR M3 3.5-10, and a MR/T 3-9 that's on my SPR. But that's it! My last purchases have been two NXS's and a Nikon. And there's another purchase coming up this summer, and it won't be a Leupold. They really should be looking back over their shoulders, 'cause the competition is breathing down their necks.

rod regier -

I never even thought to connect Hunter's release date with 9/11. Doesn't seem to be any relevence there, probably just a coincidence.

Happy Easter everyone!

ALAN
Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 21:52:52 (ZULU)

Alan, I'm just looking at general build quality, fit and finish, that sort of thing. What was the trigger like from the factory? How is the action WRT smoothness and slop at the end of it's travel? And so forth...

For under $1000, I'm certainly not expecting a Dakota, but I'd like to get an idea before I order one. I think I may have to get rid of my Jap-Win 1886 takedown rifle in order to make space for this one, so I more interested than usual. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 22:02:05 (ZULU)

Alan,

What's wrong with Fords cutomer service? I had a wheel bearing go out under warranty. They fixed it. Same wheel bearing went out a month later while my wife was on a long trip by herself. I contacted Ford they send the reciept to us. I sent the reciept for they repair and the rental car. They sent a check covering both.

I had a Dogde less than 500 miles out of warranty. The transmission went out. Called Dodge they said they would be happy to fix it for $3,500. Said screw them. Fixed it at another shop. Talked to my nieghbor who is a service rep for Ford. She said same thing happened to her Dodge and she got the same response. She said Ford would have fixed it for 500 bucks. She now drives a Ford too.

Dity Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Sunday, April 8, 2007, at 22:20:43 (ZULU)

Ken M: I've fondled one some. Looks like any other CZ, which is good. Comes to the eye and balances nicely. Stock configuration looks as if it would distribute recoil less painfully than the Winchester. Can't beat the price. The .458 Lott sorely tempts me but would be hard to sneak past the warden.

I shot a few shots through one of the "Baby" series of Brno/CZs in .460 G&A, which is very similar to the Lott. Someone snapped a photo of me a split second after touching it off. I was doing a wheelie.

Beautiful rig but three or four shots was plenty of fun for one day.

Dirty Steve: My brothers and I have had bad Dodges, Fords and - most especially - Chevys. I've never had a bad Toyota.

CDC'
Monday, April 9, 2007, at 03:53:54 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve -

Read my post again! I never mentioned customer service. Not even once. Customer service is what you need when your shit breaks! Good shit rarely breaks, and never breaks the same thing twice ;) What I was talking about is the well known fact that neither Ford or General Motors, or Chrysler Corp. for that matter, have been responsive to the consumers needs in their new products for decades. Just look at their latest loss statements for a good idea of what's been going on. The American automobile buyer has grown up, and is no longer duped by the phony patriotic hogwash that's been puked out at them on the radio, TV, and print ads in a vain attempt to convince tham to accept inferior products for the sake of national loyalty. Baseball, Hot Dogs, Apple Pie and Chevrolet - HA! The Heartbeat of America? More like the Heartbreak of America! Domestic vehicle customer satisfaction on new vehicle purchases, frequency of repair records, and sub-par resale values point to why our manufacturers are losing their asses to the competition.

Not that it makes me happy. No, not one bit! I'm a former partner in a Ford dealership, where my position of Director of Fixed Operations afforded me a unique opportunity to see the inside of the automobile business in a way that very few others ever get a glimpse of. Before that I was the Service Manager of two VW, Porsche, Audi dealerships. The Director of Fixed Operations is responsible for the service and parts departments, along with all of the facilities that are not directly part of the sales department. The service, parts, and facility maintenance managers all reported to me. I am also accepted in the State courts of both Colorado and Utah as an expert witness in the area of motor vehicle service, and have held an ASE Master Technician certificate since 1974.

I'm not about to get into a Ford vs. Chevy type of thing. That's as ridiculous as arguing Remington vs. Winchester! All I was trying to point out is that Leupold is not being responsive to many of its potential customers and has been pricing itself out of the market while its competition has been catching up - and surpassing them - in the area of quality and features for the dollar because Loopy is driven by the bean counters. Much in the way that our domestic auto makers are getting their asses kicked by companies like Toyota and Honda.

If you want some insight into what has happened to our domestic automobile industry I suggest that you read "On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors" by John Delorean. He wrote this book during the time he was being groomed for the job of President of General Motors after he brought the Pontiac Motor Division from the brink of ruin to number two in sales next to Chevrolet in a short few years, and published it just as he walked out on what many considered to be the most promising career ever seen in the business. Enlightening.

Yes, I've got some mighty strong opinions about the automobile business and what's wrong with it, and I'd be glad to discuss them (or debate them) with you but is this the place? Let the Hawgs decide!

Ken M -

I'll get in touch with my friend tomorrow and ask him about his thoughts on the CZ's. I wonder about the $1000 price tag that you mentioned. IIRC, his Safari .505 Gibbs ran about double that. But it's pretty fancy. I'll get the details and post them ASAP.

ALAN
Monday, April 9, 2007, at 05:48:43 (ZULU)

I have a CZ550 (FS) in .308. The metal is good, but the wood is poor - ugly and knotty (so bad it is weird). Mine cracked behind the recoil lug, and it is not uncommon. It also had filler in the knot holes. I understand that the magnums now have a cross-bolt behind the lug.

You can get a laminate Boyd's stock for the CZ550 Magnums. And McMillian makes CZ stocks.

That is my only criticism, based on a sample of one. Some people get great stocks. I didn't. When I called the company (US office) they seemed to know what I was talking about, because they said the replacement stocks were the same.

In general, CZ gives you a lot of gun for the money. (I have nothing bad to say about their 9mm or .22s - great bargains.)

P. Hayden
USA - Monday, April 9, 2007, at 07:13:22 (ZULU)

From ALAN

>>>>Hawgs -

>>>>>Some fairly new industry developments (at least they're new to >>>>>me) -

>>>>>Remington Arms Co. has very recently been sold to a group of >>>>>captial venture people. I figured this might inject some new >>>>>money and thinking into a company that has been floundering.

>>>>>The bad news is - they intend to keep the old management team >>>>>intact!"

Here one story......

(((((Remington Arms Sold

United Mine Workers member Dan Bass says that, from what he understands, at this point there should be no effect on any of the workers.

Ilion's largest employer is being sold. The gun maker Remington Arms announced late this morning that it's selling the company which has a plant with 750 employees in Ilion. Workers were told about the sale this morning.

The corporation that owns Remington Arms has sold it for a whopping $370 million to an affiliate of Cerberus Capital Management, a leading private investment firm.

Ilion Mayor Mark Cushman says, "Remington is a vital part of our community and we welcome the new owners into the village of Ilion...and I can assure them as Ilion's Mayor, that I'm going to do whatever I can to ensure their continued success".

Company officials say they expect the sale to be a done deal by June of this year.))))))

Heard all that but, have you heard.....

Taurus buying colt?

And, not just the handgun div. like some have thought. They will also buy the mil. rifle division.

Jim B.
AZ, You cant win the hearts and minds of the heartless and mindless - Monday, April 9, 2007, at 08:33:05 (ZULU)

Jim B -

Very interesting news about Taurus buying Colt! I thought that Colt Defense LLC was part of General Dynamics. I'd like to hear more about that proposed buyout. Do you have a link?

More about the Remington buyout -

The same company that now owns Remington bought Bushmaster in 2006. Rumor has it that there will be a Remington branded AR15 in the works soon, and that Remington will be going after the US military contracts now held by FN and Colt. Interesting times ahead ......

ALAN
Monday, April 9, 2007, at 15:17:43 (ZULU)

Alan,

Sorry about reading into your post. You have alot of insight into that area. I would like to see more diesel cars out there. Or a diesel 1/2 ton truck geared for fuel milage and not set up to tow the world. "Winchester Vs Remington?" I would choose Savage. HA ;)

CDC,

I would love to get another Toyota. I had one in the past and it was great. It was at a point in my life when I could really tear crap up. But couldn't do it to the Toy. I drove it once form Tucson to Raleigh with the front hubs locked in. I didn't notice till some where in Tennesse. The thing were to hot to touch. So I left them alone and drove on. Had the vehicle another 5 yeears and never had a problem result from that. Ok, I never had any problem with the thing. If I didn't need to tow a 4 horse trailer I would have another right now.

Don't anyone get me started on the buy American thing. Ok, I'm started. I was looking for rubber soled Cowboy boots. I was told that every single one is made in freaking Chinkland or some place close by it. Except H&H boots, they are made here. I tried them on and thought they would do. But I was wrong I now have a set of uncomfortable boots that were made here. I'm going back to Ariat boots. We can still get good Tony Lamas with leather soles made here, but nothing with a rubber sole. That just chaps my hind parst somethin ferece.

Bolt, How are you hanging in the Buddy? I know the weekend may have been tough.

Dirty Steve...............

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Monday, April 9, 2007, at 17:30:18 (ZULU)

Ken M -

I just got done talking to my friend with the CZ 550 Safari .505 Gibbs. He told me that he had to special order his at the cost of almost $2500 in order to get that specific caliber. It's supposed to be a custom deluxe model or something, and judging from the fancy wood and the polished metal finish I can see why. It's shooting 2MOA groups, but he's having a difficult time finding different bullets to work up loads with.

According to him it feeds flawlessly and the single-set trigger is very nice. The bolt operates pretty slick, but he claims that it's not as nice as his four other CZ actions, which are the earlier European versions of the 550 Magnum that were known as the Brno ZKK 602 series. They have single stage triggers and safteys that are reversed from the 550. He says that to him the machining is nicer on the older ones, but there's nothing wrong with the 550. All things considered, he likes his 550 Safari and would buy it again.

His ZKK 602's are in .338 Lapua, .338 Lazzeroni, .30 Lazzeroni, and a .350 wildcat on a .338 RUM case, all with Lilja barrels and built on McMillan stocks. All have the CZ dropped bottom metal. Scope rings are Warne QD's, B-Square Lynx, and factory CZ's. He says that he prefers the B-Square rings to the others.

That's about all the info that I got out of him today ;) Hope that it helps.

ALAN
Monday, April 9, 2007, at 20:11:11 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve....Try Whites Boots; they are killer to wear(and to buy).

Have a 1991 Toyota that survived my sons teenage years and his five years of travelling to Wyo. to guide..Finally relegated to local transport only and use as the ASC range truck until it ran out of poop and could no longer make the trip up the mountain. It still runs at 230,000+ miles and is waiting to be rebuilt by a friend I've given it to.

Still cold and snowing. The Dillons have been singing with this cold snap. Shouldn't have to load anything for quite a while.

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Monday, April 9, 2007, at 22:37:24 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve: I wore cowboy boots with oil-proof Vibram soles for years as motorcycle boots. Just take any pair that fits to a good shoe repair place, and tell them to replace the leather soles. That's what I did. 'T'aint cheap, but good boots which fit are worth quite a bit.

I never had any trouble finding those soles around Houston, where a lot of us oil-field trash hung out, but I'm sure any place could get those soles.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, April 9, 2007, at 23:14:44 (ZULU)

Yep, weekends are tougher to get through. I've got to get control of my eating binges. Damn I must have gained 10 pounds already. Good thing the weather is within a week of starting to till and plant the garden so I can get some honest excercise in. If it remotely looks like food I've eaten it. Hell, I was looking real hard at how good a leg of barbequed german shepard would look yesterday. I think she got the message and hauled ass. I'm setting here now looking at an empty box of Milk Bone Dog Biscuits. Jeezzzzz.......now I'm gonna die fat instead of smoked up. The honest to goodness worse time is between 17:00 18:00 when I get home from work and want to relax.

Enough of that crap. Hope to have my new barrel on my Remmy next week. Palma 95 contour finishing out at 32", 1/10 twist 308. Gonna see how fast I can push 190's and 210's, maybe even the new 208 Hornydee. I might not shoot good but this rifle will dang sure look good!

Over the last craving, Bolt out!

Bolt
Still kickin in......., NC, - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 00:14:07 (ZULU)

Any of you know anything about the Savage 765A shotguns? I have a question about one. Wether its' cocked, bolt locked back, or in battery, the trigger is clicking when it's past the "fire" position. I never got to go to trigger group school, so you'll have to get out your big fat crayon and draw me a picture. Thanks in advance!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 02:38:22 (ZULU)

Alan,

I was gonna chronograph some 208 AMAX loads today. Important range tip; If you plan to chronograph loads make sure you have an extra battery with you. Makes my butt wanna bite a hole in my underwear.

Also, I have a mea culpa about the velocity with the 208'. The 3200fps was for SMK 190's. Sorry, I had a senior moment. Best I can tell with the 208's based on the comeup for 600 is 2900fps. If the weather will cooperate tomorrow I will make another attempt at chronographing the 208's. With new batteries, of course. :-))

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 05:57:24 (ZULU)

Markwell,

Never heard of Whites Boots. Guess I'll do some research.

Lindy,

It's hard to find a good repair shop now days. Even here in Texas. Wish the place I knew, did not go out of biz. Of course it was harder on the owner, he died. Heck I have a buddy who can't get a saddle made. He has been waiting for about 4 months. Skilled crafts men are getting harder to find. At least those that work with leather are.

jc,

I once went to the range with out a gun. Haha. A guy offered to loan me one of his but I passed. It was Rob Leatham, up at Bianchi one year. Luckily I was at the practice range. He is a funny guy who can poke fun at himself. I saw him clean the plates. Then reload all his mags and went out to shoot for X's. Miss the first or second plate. Turned to the audience and said. Good thing I Loaded all these mags. The crowd laughed it up.

Bolt, U can do it!

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 06:19:15 (ZULU)

Whites Boots....800-541-3786 for the paper catalog or whitesboots.com for internet shopping..

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 11:43:09 (ZULU)

jc -

We all have moments like that. I figure that old age is still better than the alternative :)

I've gone to the range without a spare battery for my Oehler, when I knew that the old battery was in there for at least two years. I've forgotten my cleaning rod on a range trip when the purpose of the trip was a clean one and shoot one break-in session. Another time I forgot my bore guide on another break-in session, and the worst of all was when I forgot my ammo :(

So don't feel so bad.

Post those chrono results when you get a chance .

ALAN
Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 14:13:46 (ZULU)

Ok guys I need some help,And lito not that kind of help. I Just picked up a 1903 A3, I took apart and it has been packed with a brown like carmel goo.I think its cosmoline.Does anyone have any good ideas on how to remove it.

thanks

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 14:38:40 (ZULU)

Jon -

Yeah, it's Cosmoline. I've cleaned lots of CMP rifles. Use a solvent (mineral spirits) a stiff bristle brush and lots of elbow grease. If the stock is soaked in grease clean it and let it sit out in the sun until more grease comes to the surface of the wood and clean it again. Repeat as necessary.

ALAN
Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 15:02:23 (ZULU)

Alan

Is it ok to use solvents on the wood or should I use a wood cleaner?

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 15:24:15 (ZULU)

Jon,

You might also want to take a look at this:

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/cosmoline/index.asp

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The cloudy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 15:35:59 (ZULU)

Folks,

I hate to be the first to ask, but where is Joe M?

Mark

Mark Taylor
WV, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 16:04:20 (ZULU)

Doc,

that helps alot,I have a few good ways now.

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 17:30:51 (ZULU)

Markwell,

For those prices I would want to try them on before buying. I don't mind spending the money just for that price I want to make sure they fit. No damn dealers around here according to the site. I see they have a couple dealers in NM. I will check them out when I go out there. My wife is iat Fort Bliss so planning a trip to NM will be easy enough.

Anyone here shave with anything but a Trac2, Mach 4 or of type of main stream razors? I began to get pissed at compaies making more and more freaking blades on their razors. I mean draging one of thier razors across your face is like using a single blade 4 times. I just got pissed. I complained to my wife and she solved my moaning by ordering me some old time shaving stuff. I have started shaving with an old 1904 model safety razor. And I am thinking switching to using a straight razor. I get a better shave and don't spend 9 buck for 5 blades any more. I use a badger hair shaving brush and shaving cream from Italy. Kind of neat. here are a couple links to info http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6886845/

http://www.classicshaving.com/Home.html

I Hope JoeM. Did not go horse back riding. Or atleast did it better than me if he did.

Dirty Steve...........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 17:45:33 (ZULU)

Hawgs,

I talked with Joe last week and he was fine.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The cloudy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 18:48:10 (ZULU)

Jon -

Mineral spirtis will do no more harm to a Cosmoline soaked stock than has already been done by years of grease saturation. Scrubbing the Cosmoline off with mineral spirits and then repeatedly heating it in the sun is less damaging to the wood than steam or hot water.

If only the metal is caked in Cosmoline but the stock is just dirty, stained, scratched or dinged and you want to refinish it but retain its authentic appearance I strongly suggest that you follow the steps outlined by the CMP in the link that I've attached. It's by far the best I've ever seen!

Click my name.

ALAN
Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 19:27:09 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve:

From the looks of ya, she must've got you a belt sander.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 19:48:42 (ZULU)

White has made fire fighting and logging boots for years. Probably the best boots in the world in that style. Each pair was custom made - I assume the still are. If you lived in Washington, Idaho, Montana, or Alaska, you knew about Whites. But they probably were not national.

I could not afford Whites when I worked for the USFS. (They were $250 in 1972.) Their styles are a little dated - they don't make climbing boots, for example. But their smoke jumpers and logger boots are pretty good for the intended terrain.

When I went to college in Spokane, I used to walk by the White store. They made each pair to order, and did not have many people working. One pair at a time. I don't think you can try them on first. They are made to a last built for your foot. I think they mail you a tracing paper to stand on for sizing - that's what I received once. The boots are a hair tight, but stretch to fit perfectly.

Wearing a pair of custom Whites is like hunting with your grandfather's pre-64 Winchester Model 70. The quality of the work adds a richness to the experience - not in money, but just knowing that someone cared to turn out the very best product they could make.

White boots, Filson double packer coats, 1955 Colt 1911, 1950 Win. M70, Old growth cedar shakes, Clear fir 2x6s for framing.

P. Hayden
USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 19:51:55 (ZULU)

Close: I've got a '55 .308 FW and a '58 30-06 rifle, my 1911 is a 1920's commercial model.

Boots are Danners or Sorels, I'm thinking about getting some Filson stuff, but for now it's Columbia wool over thinsulate and capilene. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 20:23:07 (ZULU)

Jon,

I believe there was a pretty good step by step on removing cosmoline over on box of truth website.

_____________________________________________________________

White's boots. Pretty good, will last forever. Worth the money, but they're HEAVY! So are Hathorn's. Hathorn is owned by White's now, I believe. They're slightly less, but appear to be just as good. I had one pair, however, that I think I broke my feet into, rather than breaking the boots into my feet.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, April 10, 2007, at 22:43:11 (ZULU)

Travis,

I started having problems with an inflammed plantar tendon in my left heel sometime last year. I spent months trying to figure out what was causing it. I tried orthotics, and therapy. I finally switched boots. I had been wearing the Bates "Ultra Lights" for two years. I got a pair of Danner Acadia, and the problem was much better after a week. After a month of the new boots its all gone. I always thought the Danners would be too heavy for me, but once I got em on I cannot tell the difference in weight. They aint cheap, but they sure are worth it.

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 02:04:31 (ZULU)

Box of Truth - Cosmoline removal:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu23.htm

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 04:15:01 (ZULU)

Alan,

Made it back to the range (with TWO fresh batteries this time) today to do some chronographing. Had five rounds of 208 Hornady Amax, Winchester brass, FGMM 210M, and 68.0 grains of Reloader 22. I loaded these rounds in sort of a rush so the stats could (and would) be better.

Median velocity was 2908fps, with an ES of 38 and a SD of 15.

I was going to chrono some of the SMK 190's but on the first one of those out the tube I had a small wreck. A kindly gust of wind came along at the exact same time I broke the shot and skewed the chrono several degrees offline with the axis of the barrel and I succeeded in hitting one of the sensors with a severely mortal shot. It was over very quickly and I'm sure the sensor never felt a thing. Other than a crushing blow to my pride there were no other casualties.

I could have carried on using two sensors but I was sure I would break something trying to get the battery door off so I could change the dip (appropriately named in my case) switches.

Anyway, as I suspected, I did not have the elevation turret set properly for a 100 yd zero. Not far off, but enough to cause errors in estimating velocities.

Repair parts are on order with Oehler and should be here fairly soon, so I'll try one more time to get an accurate mv for the 190's.

I would swear you to secrecy, but it think the cat is out of that bag already.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 05:18:26 (ZULU)

Funny, of my short list, the clear fir 2x6s would be the hardest thing to get. Pretty wood.

This thread has convinces me I am spending too much money on cheap stuff, and too much time indoors. The thought of good boots makes me want to do something that requires a pack, boots, and flyrod somewhere in the vicinity of Thunder Creek.... Time goes by too fast. There are places I meant to go back to that don't even exist anymore.

If you only get one thing from Filson, get the Double Mackinaw cruiser jacket. Too warm for spring, but perfect for winter. Get it a little big. Virgin wool shrinks a bit just from the rain.

P. Hayden
USA - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 05:29:29 (ZULU)

jc,

I just plain ruined one crono. A Keith 250 grain 44 mag bullet over a health dose of 2400. That thing went sailing. Well parts of it did.

Good equipment is just plain great. I gave up on getting crap a few years back. I founder every once in a while but I end up getting reminded of why the stuff costs more. It's cause it's worth it most of the time. As Winston Churchill said, "I am easily satisfied with the very best." Good motto to live by. I smoke cigars and drink every now and then. I don't watse time on crap when it comes to ruining my healt, HAHA..

Dirty Steve............

Bolt, please disregard those last two lines.

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 07:46:48 (ZULU)

Filson...If you don't own one of Filson's wool vests; well. The price always put me off. First year working in Wyo. wife and I go into Episcopal(sp?) church thrift store in Jackson looking for a couple of extra blankets. Red plaid garment on the a rack catches my eye. Pick it up and it's a filson vest! Price is $15! And, it fits. Liked it so well afrer that winter I ordered a gray one at full price.

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WVFi, - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 13:21:59 (ZULU)

jc -

Thanks for the info. Too bad about your Oehler. I've been thinking about getting a spare sensor and set of screens for mine. Your experience has convinced me to get off my butt and do it!

ALAN
Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 16:31:14 (ZULU)

OK, funny resole experience with Rocky boots I took to local guy. I had him take off worn soft soles and put on Vibram lug soles. Picked them up and went straight to two day woods trip. Felt fine in store.

Through on pack and went for hike. About a mile in my feet started to get these sting like feelings. I ignored as long as I could but eventually stopped. Took off boots and found several dozen holes in my bleeding feet. The shoe guy had attached the soles with TOO LONG tacks. Weight had eventually punched the tacks through. Well I did the cradboard thing in the bottom to keep tacks from now bleeding feet for newt couple of days. Boots never went on feet again.

JC, too bad about Chrono. Would like to hear results of the 208s

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 17:26:30 (ZULU)

I too look forward to the 208 Amax results. They are far and away superior to SMK's WRT terminal performance. Not Hague legal but that don't apply to some folks.

Just sold the 1886, gonna order the CZ550 Safari tomorrow. I figure 300gn Barnes X's at 2600'ish fps is plenty for just about all American critters and won't be as little fun as 400's at 2500'ish. I'm thinking 1.5-5x'ish scope, the choices are Nikon 30mm, Leupold 30mm Euro and what else? Anybody make decent 30mm rings for the CZ? S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 19:25:06 (ZULU)

Ken M -

Don't overlook the Nightforce NXS 1-4x24mm scope with either the FC-2 or the NP-1 reticle.

Dick Phillips (the guy with the CZ's) says he likes the B-Square Lynx 30mm rings. All steel construction, available in low, medium, and high. They hold zero on his .505 Gibbs, so that's saying something!

Dick has a set of the Warne QD rings on another CZ, but he doesn't like the fact that they're MIM (metal injection molded) while the Lynx rings are machined from solid steel.

ALAN
Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 20:19:03 (ZULU)

Well it was long battle with the cosmoline,but well worth the time.For being 65 years old it sure is in good shape.And the machining work is great.I used a hair drier on the stock and it seemed to work good.Thanks for the help.

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Wednesday, April 11, 2007, at 22:28:16 (ZULU)

Bill,

When I'm down in the back, I'd shoot you for trying to take my danners. The insulated ones are so comfy, I've worn them in the summer here! Too bad they were bought out. I think by Georgia.

JC,

Look on the Bright side, the worst thing that happened to you was having to go shooting, then having to shop for gun stuff!

Markwell,

That's the best thrift store I've ever been to. If you ever need good leather gloves(CHEAP!) go to Hungry Jack's.

Mike Miller,

Do we dare ask how the boot repair guy fared?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 00:35:22 (ZULU)

Ken, I just did a test of the NXS 1-4. Its the best damm scope in this power I have ever used. I liked it better than SxB Short Dot and its half the price. Take a look I sent a review to Marius yesterday

On the Shoe Repair guy, hell he was 75 years old. Not much to do but not take future work there. Did not have heart to even tell him what happened.

Undude/Mike

Mike Miller
Ca, - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 01:04:44 (ZULU)

Gentlemen,

For those of you interested, on June 3, 2007 at 0800, the Goose creek tactical range located approximaely 30 miles to the North East of Eagle Butte, South Dakota is hosting their annual tactical match. The range is located on the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe Indian Reservation. Entry fee is 70.00. The match consists of a carbine and pistol course and a tactical rifle (read precision rifle) course.The two courses of fire are seperate. Entry fee includes both matches but the shooter is not required to compete in both. This year there will be a 5 round Poker shoot match which fee is 20.00.

The carbine and pistol course requires a .223 rifle with 60 rounds and a 9mm to .45 cal pistol with 45 rounds. The precision rifle course requires 30 rounds and a rilfe between .223 and 300 win mag.

In the past, targets have been out past 900 yards on this course.

For more details contact Harlan Gunville at (605) 964-2155. Course is limited to 25 shooters.

I have shot this match the last two years and had a blast both times.

I have done well one year and gotten my but kicked one year. Very nice prize table.

Pat II
Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 02:20:48 (ZULU)

Click my name for yet MORE computer ballistics crap. Downloads, ballistics progs., etc..

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 02:39:53 (ZULU)

Undude and Ken M,

The 208's shoot extremely well in a 300WSM. 68 grains of Reloader 22 pushes them at just a bit over 2900 fps. That's with Winchester brass and Federal 210M primers. I need to do a little adjusting with the seating depth to see if I can get them to shoot as well as I want them to. The 68 grains of RL22 is not showing any pressure signs other than a very light flattening of the primers. I'm gonna take the load up to 68.5 and see what I get out of it.

The rifle is in pieces parts as of today 'cause I'm changing over from a long action Rem. to a short action Surgeon in hopes that I can squeeze a little more accuracy out of the rig. Everything should be put back together, painted, repaired, etc., by next week and ready to go back out to the range to see what kind of trouble I can get myself into next time.

Travis,

Range time is good time even if you do screw up occasionally. Well, short of shootin' yourself in the foot. Damn, kinda reminded me of the late 1960's. There must have been a lot of defective civilian firearms made during that time as lots of troops on pre-deployment leave were being injured in hunting mishaps. ;-)

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 05:16:09 (ZULU)

Well here it is, April 12th, and it's snowing like crazy in Western Colorado.

Must be global warming! Oh, excuse me, now it's called climatic change. Just another fear tactic used to scare the masses into submission by the tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, anti-everything element that has taken over our universities and the media.

Let's see, in the 1960's a new ice age was supposed to be just around the corner. By the 1970's acid rain was supposed to destroy all of the industrialized countries on the planet. In the 1980's along comes the depletion of the ozone layer and the resulting hole in the ozone that was supposed to destroy our atmosphere, and sometime during the 1990's they started in with the global warming business and have recently changed the name to climatic change in a lame attempt to rationalize why freezing temperatures and snow in this part of the country at this time of the year can still be included in their idiotic theories and to avoid making people like Al Gore, who's become the Pied Piper of their movement, look like the charlatans that they really are.

I see it as an attempt by the left to gain political control over a large part of the civilized world by economic destabilization.

The sheeple see it as an effort to 'save the earth'. HA!

Rant over!

ALAN
Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 15:32:31 (ZULU)

Panicked morons do stupid shite, they are easy to lead about by the nose. Hence the reason for so much that political vermin do. Big reason I don't care for women having the vote or those who have not served in some form, for that matter.

JC, what barrel length are you using with those 208's, that seems awful fast for the usual shortmag 24" tube.

I looked at the NXS site, what's the opinion of the 2.5-10x24 vs the 1-4? S/F....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 16:55:18 (ZULU)

Ken M,

Barrel (Kreiger) length on the 300WSM is just shy of 28 inches.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 17:42:39 (ZULU)

There has to be somebody here that has messed with a 1911 A1,I have springfield that might get a custom trigger.Is it worth it?

Jon Kujawa
Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 18:14:38 (ZULU)

Hey all you "I-da-Ho'ans

What's the winter like there - I got a feeling from it's location, that the winters are a bitch, but the open shooting spaces sure look good.

Anyone see the Chey-Tac thing on the military channel last night??

Looks like ALL of the old Chey-tac guys are gone, including D**n, Warren Jensen, Doc John, and the rest.

The new guys claim first shot hits and a 20" group on a torso sized plate, at 2,200 yds, using a Kestral 4000, and no rangefinders (Uh huh!!).

Claimed a 2 shot 1" group at 900 ???

When the model "200" was fired, "a little puff of smoke" came out of the barrel??

The gun comes with a bridge - not a bridge scope mount, but a bridge to Brooklyn ;))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 18:16:53 (ZULU)

ALAN,

For the most part, I agree with you. But we did have to make some changes for the environment. Acid rain really was a problem, and so are a bunch of other emissions. The real issue, as I see it, is going too far. Automotive emissions have dropped 90%+ in the last 30-years, depending on the vehicle(s). Going to zero emissions is a monumental hurdle. I suggest those people proposing such measures be the first to forfeit their vehicles and any access to 'non-zero emission energy sources'. And managing carbon emissions? Ha! We can start by eliminating their rights to exhale. That would stop a lot of CO2 from being emitted. And we're expecting that 'global warming' front to hit us later today........ blecchhh....

Lito: Yep, I caught the CheyTac on 'Future Weapons', while channel surfing. IIRC, none of the bullets penetrated the target. Did they mention what type of bullets were used? Did they have a guy behind a bush, close-up, to put bullets on the target? And who needs a LRF when you have a Kestrel and a sooper-dooper CheyTac PDA?

Just another day in paradise........

Duman
Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 18:50:34 (ZULU)

Duman...

The bullets that they showed were bronze solids - probably the LRB bullets.

The pictures they showed of the bullets penetrating were taken at close (~10 feet) range with a high speed camera.

The bullets at 2,200...?? I don't know. Cudd'a punched the plate??

They have some new "Ex" Seal or Delta guy taking D**n's place. D**n tried to get a course going down in AZ, and it went up in smoke - all the guys that he has been crapin' on for the last five years came back and bit him in the "you know what"... the bastard is having to deal with his own mess now - no one trusts him.

What Goes around, comes around... and he has a lot of "comes around" coming. ;))))

I never heard from his lawyer - good thing, cuz I'm learning my around a court room ;))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 19:06:58 (ZULU)

'Lito,

I missed the 'bullets hitting target' section. I only saw the bald guy holding the target at the end of the show. I'm probably wrong. I'll try to catch the entire show next time.

Duman
Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 19:58:31 (ZULU)

JK:

I am not an expert, but I have rebuilt/built a number of 1911s. I think the issues for an already functioning pistol are, in order of importance:

a) barrel lock up/fit/bushing

b) sear/disconnect/hammer

c) trigger/take-up/over-travel/smoothness

If you are going to have the trigger worked on, you should also have a) and b) done.

"Worth it' is the second most subjective standard in the world.

If you are starting with a Springfield Mil Spec or GI model, I think you can get 90% of what you want by replacing the sear and disconnect (and hammer) with machined, hardened, quality parts out of the Brownells' catalog, buying a tighter drop-in bushing (I like Brown, but there are others out there just a good), and purchasing a medium or long length trigger with an over-travel screw. The next step above this is competition level work.

All I do on mine are a) and b). I like shorter triggers and don't mind take-up if I know when the hammer falls.

If you are starting with a high-end Springfield, and are unhappy, then you probably do need to pay for the work. I don't know if Springfield uses NIM or cast sears on their target models, but if so, replace them.

1911s are not hard to tear down and rebuild. You could do all of these things yourself, but do all the safety checks when you shoot it, before loading a full magazine.

P. Hayden
USA - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 20:09:47 (ZULU)

jon/1911s are a weakness. All you really NEED is good sights and a good crisp 4lb. trigger, assuming the gun runs OK and goes bang every time with whatever ammo you're going to carry in it. As it's easy to screw up a trigger job(IMHO),I suggest you find a good gunsmith. The problem is it's hard to be satisfied for long with a "basic" 1911(or even one 1911 for that matter: it's worse than the potato chip ad, trust me!!!!) At my age, and with some arthritis that's pushed me into shooting a 9mm/1911(the Colonel just flipped over) for IDPA, you'd think .45/1911s would be taking a back seat to other projects. Not so; as I have a Series 70 Colt and all the parts to build up another custom gun sitting here in the gun room. Just need to decide who to send the stuff to(and figure out how to pay the bill). Don't forget, you'll also need a Commander or other lightweight/compact 1911 for a carry gun as those full size steel guns do get heavy. And then everyone needs a Super 38, and a .22 conversion/Ace, maybe even a .17Mach2, and longslides are unique and oh man, it's a weakness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 21:09:55 (ZULU)

Mark,and P.hayden,

Yeah your telling me this pistol is the third one.Is a brand new springfeild.I was just thinking about a skeletonized trigger and hammer,but you can get all of the parts with a trigger kit.Who knows what I will do I have all these guns and big ideas and the only problem is I can't make the money as fast as I need to.

thanks

Jon Kujawa
Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 22:01:52 (ZULU)

Can someone point me at a US web site listing pricing on new pump-action shotguns (Rem, Moss, etc). I wanted to get some ideas of relative pricing for one of my relatives.

Thanks

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 22:48:41 (ZULU)

rod,

Unless they've changed in the past couple of months, both Remington and Mossberg show MSRP's on their websites. If there is anything in particular, I can provide you with wholesale costs.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 23:07:13 (ZULU)

No MSRP here :-(

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_synthetic.asp

http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=3&section=products

or here :-(

I was interested in the "price neighborhood" of a "basic" 12ga 18.5" bead or non-rib brl pump action suitable for dealing with 2-legged varmints. (i.e. not a vent-rib wingshooting configuration).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 01:01:41 (ZULU)

Exotic product country:

Just to mess with your minds a bit, a factory-mfgr pump action shotgun with a 14" brl falls into the same category as a unit with an 18.5 or 28" barrel in Canada.

Norinco makes an 870 clone with a 14" barrel for sale into the Canadian market that one of the importers is retailing for $C345.

Would seem like a fun toy to get :-)

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/N870-14.00.shtm

Ironically, the 18.5" version sells for $C299 and the 28" version sells for $C249 i.e. the shorter the barrel, the more expensive.

Norinco-mfgr firearms are not importable into the US:

(Note on Marstar's web page):

"Attn. U.S. Clients: Due to a U.S. gov't imposed embargo (import ban) we can NOT ship Chinese made firearms to the United States. Please contact the A.T.F. for more info."

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 01:12:56 (ZULU)

Roster Email -- any glitches lately?

All: heads up -- new virus in the works. Contains a zip file attachment with a password in the email. Email asks you to open the zip file, and provide the password to open it. DON'T DO IT. Virus scanners won't nail this one for awhile --- Every time the bad guys repackage the zip file with a new password - it changes the pattern - so it looks 'new'....

Anyhow -- Anyone out there heard from Rod Hansen? ASC match?

thanks,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 01:48:26 (ZULU)

Funny....I just talked to a former "SEAL" that was on fire about the new ChayTac PDA program. Kept on and on and on....(say that ten more times) about it, how it could factor in everything you could imagine, and then give you exact comeups to whatever distance you needed. He had the same look as Amway salesmen or Jim Jones' (dead) followers....When he wound down, I rattled off some numbers. When asked, I replied "duh, I just memorized my comeups to a thousand. Is that ok, too?" He just turned away and started on someone else. I later heard him say that he NEVER makes windage changes, except for, wait for it.....here it comes......YES! SPIN DRIFT! CORIOLUS EFFECT! I'm sorry, but I hadda bust out laughing. Made my day.

Off to Badlands to burn up a sinful amount of ammo and eat really evil chili.

Here's what is scaring me, though. I'm getting real used, real fast, to having a house to myself and doing whatever the hell I want. Even had a tasty Rocky Patel ceegar that Dirty Steve gave me, right on the damned couch in the front room. Another couple of weeks of this, I hit the bingo bitch point....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 02:03:19 (ZULU)

Chuck, I heard that crap from him today too. Think I might need to send him packing. He spent all clean up time telling me how Fd up we were. Oh well?

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 03:00:35 (ZULU)

"Hey all you "I-da-Ho'ans

What's the winter like there - I got a feeling from it's location, that the winters are a bitch, but the open shooting spaces sure look good."

It gets a bit brisk. Not bad. Californians don't seem to care for it.

Come on out. I'll lend you a rifle.

CDC'
Friday, April 13, 2007, at 03:11:43 (ZULU)

http://www.visitidaho.org/about/climate.aspx :-)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 03:17:36 (ZULU)

Charles Hunt: The average dining room makes a great weight room.

CDC'
Friday, April 13, 2007, at 03:28:06 (ZULU)

rod r.,

On the Mossberg website you will find MSRP's if you pull up the specifications on the different models. Guess Remington quit posting prices.

Off to the NRA Convention tomorrow. They are guesstimating a turnout of 65,000 over the three days! The liberals in St. Louis are not a happy bunch. ;o)

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The muddy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 04:08:32 (ZULU)

Gents,

Haven't posted for a bit, but am not going to play catch-up. Good posts and I glad to see that shooting is the primary topic.

A fellow instructor brought over his Remington PSS w/DBM last night as he's going to a basic sniper course and wanted me to look over his rifle and load some ammo.

The rifle has been shot a little and accuracy was OK, but not outstanding. Upon inspection here's what I found.

1. Rear of barrel and face of bolt making contact and galling. Bad enough to cause a small burr on the edge of the chamber in the 8 o'clock position.

2. Locking lugs had 10% engagement on the right lug and about 25% on the left.

3. Trigger had noticable creep, but broke at about 3-4 pounds.

4. Upon removing the stock it was noted that the front action screw only had about 1 1/2 revolutions of thread engagement. Rear was OK.

5. Stock and aluminum bedding block only had a small bit of support on the front reciever ring at 4 and 8 o'clock. Rear of stock had limited support on the last half inch of the reciever tang. I'm not sure there is enough surface along the reciever to even properly skim bed the darn thing. The reciever can actually be rocked a bit until torqued down. God knows what that's doing to accuracy. The barrel does free float, at least.

6. The barrel crown is OK, but I would recrown with a recessed style. Quality seems good on the barrel itself. No tight or loose spots felt while cleaning.

Luckily, he had purchased Badger rings and mounts for the Luppie M1 LR so there was no real surprises on that score.

Overall, I was pretty stunned that something like this made it through the quality control (?) process. There is no way to comment on headspace, as I didn't have the gauges to measure it. Based on what I saw a max headspace condition is a good bet.

Anyone out there seen similar Remmies?

The upshot is we are going to correct some of this, but it's going to be after the school he's attending due to time constraints. I doubt there will be a qualified armorer there to accomplish any of the work.

Good to be back "on deck" with you guys.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 04:26:33 (ZULU)

markwell,

"Just need to decide who to send the stuff to(and figure out how to pay the bill)"

Nothing to worry about. Got just the person to send the stuff to and don't worry about the bill.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 05:02:20 (ZULU)

Charles Hunt...

>"Here's what is scaring me, though. I'm getting real used, real fast, to having a house to myself and doing whatever the hell I want. Even had a tasty Rocky Patel ceegar that Dirty Steve gave me, right on the damned couch in the front room. "<

I've spent most of my life single, and some of it in various stages of "attached", with numerous examples of the female of the species.

Over all, I think I prefer single.

When I was single, I cleaned my guns in the living room and the couch smelled like Hoppe's #9. the floor usually had few extra Fritos cornchips on it. I ate cold pizza for breakfast, and once had a motorcycle in my kitchen for 7 months while I worked on it... and even though I ate all of the basic food groups (Beer, Pizza, Chinee' take-out, and Bacon Cheesburgers), I weighed 35 pounds less than I do now.

When my squeeze had a headache, I got another squeeze (without the help of a lawyer).

Went shooting when I wanted to, my "Hunny doo list" was load more ammo, clean the m-27, go to Frank's and drink more beer...

... yup, single is much betterer!!!

;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 05:07:55 (ZULU)

"Marriage is like a steaming bath; After a little while you realize that it's not so hot."__________Alfred E. Newman

Growing up I avoided moms at all costs. Now I'm married to one.

John Russell
Yes dear, yes dear, of course I'm listening - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 09:41:07 (ZULU)

Ken Hunter....ASC is on for May 12/13 and 19/20...I've been working on prizes and so has Rod..Bought some new steel(check out Salute targets) and will order shirts and hats very soon...This project has certainly grown hair over the last few years. There is still snow on the mountain but it's warmer now than it was for the winter shoot(dumb idea but interesting). All is well at the homestead. Will we see you in May??

outa here

Markwell
the Alleghenies, WVK, - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 12:31:27 (ZULU)

Markwell - thanks for the note. Hmmm... sounds tempting....

The website builder for the ASC site contacted me a few days ago for login info. He's looking at being able to have some info up soon for that ASC. Hit on:

http://asc.riflemen.net ever so often and see what happens. Right now there's the generic "test" banner that I use for initial setups.

take care all,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 13:50:03 (ZULU)

Well, Jim, like the bumper sticker says, "It ain't bragging if you can do it". It takes guys like that to make SEALS. If he really WAS a SEAL. At least he can shoot, but he was a bit annoying.

Worst part about the day was that I no longer have a reason to want to go home. Just 'cuz I'm getting USED to it, don't mean I LIKE it.

Off to Oklahoma.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 15:09:48 (ZULU)

rod regier,

Try RemingtonLE.com for a better selection of models. Then go

to ImpactGuns.com for a price that's about 100-150 dollars more than

your local dealer will charge you for the same item. I just got an

870 model #4449 this way. Good luck!

Mark

Mark Taylor
West Virginia, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 18:39:24 (ZULU)

HAY ALL

Charles S. Hunt

YOU R DEFINITELY RIGHT ABUT THE: "the dope" 'cuz you write it down"

"Wind is the problem, and there ain't no program that can look at

a mirage"

I DID THE SAME FOR YEARS END SUCCEED .

IT'S ALL EXPERIENCE WHIT YOUR RIFLE,YOUR AMMO ,ETC.

GET OUT .

AVI

avi
HAIFA, IS, IS - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 20:53:01 (ZULU)

I go here for real world prices :http://www.gunbroker.com/

Did you guys hear the rumor that Ruger was going to start making its own barrels?

4i's
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 21:25:55 (ZULU)

re: Shotgun pricing

Thanks for the pointers Mark and 4i. Local dealer for me would be in Canada, which has a completely different price structure than the US. Since I'm looking into pricing for a US relative then we would be talking *their* local dealer :-)

re: Ruger barrels

I had heard a rumour too that Ruger was going to finally be making their own barrels. Given what they accepted in the past and how many they implicitly sell, seems like a smart idea to me. They have been slowly expanding what they do inhouse for a long time.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, April 13, 2007, at 21:58:29 (ZULU)

SEALs have good ways of doing some things which work great - for the SEALs. That doesn't mean that their way is the only way, although often SEALs tend to think so. And they aren't the only ones - a lot of the high-speed, low-drag guys tend to think so.

The problem with people trained in only one school is that they often don't know reasons for what they do - it's just what they were taught. If you see the same task done many different ways, you can start to see why some work better than others, and when.

I've learned a lot from a whole bunch of people - and I have and will continue to steal from anyone with a good idea, no matter where he or she came from, if it's better than what I'm currently using.

One of these days, I may amount to something.

Nah, probably not. :-)

We just finished a 3-week stretch of classes with one day off - but I'm having lots of fun. Not a bad way to spend what was SUPPOSED to be my "retirement".

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 00:42:10 (ZULU)

Hawgs,

Just got home from the NRA Convention. Big crowd and lots of neat stuff. Too bad I'm not very, very rich. ;o(

Bravo,

Had a nice chat with my old friend Bob Hodgdon. Checked on your rumor about 4831 being discontinued and he said it wasn't gonna happen. When they started the sc they considered dropping the regular 4831. Decided to let consumer sales be the final judge. Found out that sales were evenly divided between 4831 and 4831sc so they still produce both.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The stormy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 00:58:36 (ZULU)

Doc:

I'm using a non-cannister-grade powder that I bought from a friend who has some "serious" contacts - IMR4896. It was part of an experimental production run a few years ago.

I like to think of it as IMR4895SC, since that is the nitch that it fills. (It *is* a short-cut extruded powder.) Wonderful powder for .223 REM. Burns clean, meters well, good load density. I'm using it with 55g and 64g projectiles. I get pretty good accuracy with that powder and the Rem 55g "metal case" bulk .224 projectiles (RB2244). They seem much more uniform than the Winchester 55g FMJBT projectiles.

My friend got a (50 lb?) keg of it, I got about of 1/3 of the tail end (for a good price per pound) when he decided on other powder(s) for .308 Win.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 01:45:19 (ZULU)

Back from visiting my wife on her big day at Bliss. She is the Army's newest Battalion Commander. Took a reservist to start a brand new active army battalion. It's a logistics thing but kind of neat they chose her instead of an active duty officer. To damn bad I didn't get anything accomplished. I was gunna check out the Rod and Bottle there but couldn't even fit that in. It was snowing in Riodoso NM. I left El Paso today and the wife had to go there for a briefing.

Damn was it windy there. I wanted to do some shooting there just to get in some awsome training on shooting in bad wind. Gusts were up to 60 mph.

1911 country. Nothing wrong with owning 4 or more. (45, 40, 9mm & 38 Stupid) I place the importance on barrel fit, sights and then trigger. I thnk it gives you the most benifit in that order. By that is just my opinion.

Dirty Steve...........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 02:25:45 (ZULU)

rod regier -

H4896? I'm pretty sure that it's only the number for H4895 when it's supplied in the large containers normally intended for commercial use. H4895 is already a short-cut powder. Looking at it, it's hard to imagine its grains being cut any shorter. In fact the latest jug of it that I bought has "Small Extruded Grain For Uniform Metering" printed on the label right under the H4895 designation and Extreme Powder logo. It would be interesting to find out for sure.

And I'll agree that it works great in the .223! I've been using it for years with a large range of bullet weights in this cartridge and always had fine results. Not too shabby in a .308 either, especially the M14/M1A platform.

ALAN
Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 04:40:00 (ZULU)

Powder Country:

No, IMR4896.

I made a photo of the label.

TYPE IMR 4896

LOT: 1

DATE: SEPTEMBRE 1996

NET WT 60LB *27.2 KG)

EX-9003222

Made in Canada for IMR Powder Company

RD NO. 5 Plattsburg NY

12901 USA

Product of Canada

I think that would have been the EXPRO powder plant. Expro Technologies Inc., Canada. (Valleyfield, Quebec)

According to http://www.hsl.gov.uk/enb/ec-type-cert.htm Hodgdon IMR smokeless powders are Expro Technologies Inc, Canada and ADI Limited, Australia for repackaging by Hodgdon Powder Company Inc, USA

This makes interesting reading:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2004/RAND_MG169.pdf

Canada’s Privatization of Military Ammunition Production

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 08:13:28 (ZULU)

rod regier -

OK, so the powder that you have was manufactured before Hodgdon bought the rights to the IMR lineup of powders. In that case please disregard everything that I said in my last post :)

ALAN
Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 16:55:28 (ZULU)

I don't have cable, so wasn't able to see the Future Weapons 408 Chey Tac.

Does anyone who saw it remember if they shot the rifle with a suppressor on it? If it had a can on it, did the can have a suppressor cover on it?

Was the guy laying on a lightweight Cordura shooting mat?

I sent the former SEAL who works for Chey Tac a can cover and shooting mat. He said he'd try to get them both on the show.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 18:25:01 (ZULU)

Tony Burkes -

I saw the show. The rifle was equipped with a can, but I don't remember seeing any can cover. I couldn't tell about a mat. Wasn't paying attention to that.

Hawgs -

And speaking of Chey-Tac, click my name to see something that really reflects on their character.

ALAN
Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 18:59:13 (ZULU)

Tony Burkes...

No can cover in any of the shots.

He must have sold it at a gun show :((

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 19:31:18 (ZULU)

Well, how about that. I didn't know anything about the Windrunner story. That's a crappy way of doing business. A rep brought one to a match I shot a few years ago, and it was the same guy I talked to at the last SHOT Show about making a cover for their can.

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas , United States of America - Saturday, April 14, 2007, at 19:54:27 (ZULU)

Wes,

Yes on everything you mentioned about new 700 PSSs. When I worked at the IBA (Chandler) shop, I LTId about 10 brand new PSS rifles a week. How about the entire bore isn't rifled. Saw that one about 6 years ago.

It has always scared me to think how many police snipers are out there with a stock, unchecked and unfixed Remington Tactical Response System.

I just recived 8 new PSS rifles here at the facility last week. Four of the eight had trigger pulls of 6 or more pounds. Three barrel channels had to be cleared. Yeah, lug engagement always tends to suck on them.

I fixed what I could, mounted 20MOA Badger rails on them with the contract required M3 LR scope. We made it to 600 so far and still holding good. I am praying hard.

Semper Fi,

Finger

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Sunday, April 15, 2007, at 15:57:40 (ZULU)

All - Cheyetac -- here's one for sale on gunsamerica.com - get this url or click on my name.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/classifieds/none/_976867220.aspx

Rem700/QC: I got hold of one that wouldn't quite sit 'right' in the action. When you center the barrel by the end of the stock (wrap tape around the barrel to make it center) - the action appeared to be 'uneven' in the stock. Turns out - the action threads were cut so the barrel - when threaded in - tended to point to the left abit... LOL...

take care all...

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Sunday, April 15, 2007, at 17:00:42 (ZULU)

Gents,

Jim and Ken, It IS scary what is getting out the door these day's and is still being sold on reputations 10+ years old. If someone wanted a new rifle today I would probably recommend an FN/Winchester.

My IBA 6.5 X .284 (the first one) was built while you were still with IBA, Jim. It's a peach, but I don't shoot it much as the .308 does what I want. Still, if I had to pick a rifle to shoot to 1,000 with it would be that stick and cartridge. Imminently shootable, accurate, and recoils like a .308. What's not to like except a lower barrel life?

Dirty Steve, Please pass my congratulations to your wife. It IS a big deal to be a BN Commander. You must be very proud of her. Had my chance as a BN XO and retired instead. Kick myself in the butt over that every now and again, but overall it was the right decision.

All for now. Chores and work beckon...

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Sunday, April 15, 2007, at 17:45:38 (ZULU)

Smoking........

Just past the two week mark on the smoking deal. Damn medicine is amazing stuff. Still have some cravings but nothing I can't get over. Kinda concerned about what will happen when the 3 months of medicine is up.

Keltec.......

Joined the Keltec 380 pisto club yesterday. Kinda neat having sumpin that don't show big buldges in yer britches. Damn, that just don't sound right for some reason. What are you guys feeding these leetle pistolas for defense rounds? I bought a couple of boxes of Magtech ball ammo to loosen it up with.

Hornady 80's........

Anybody tried these in their mouse guns yet? I've got a hankerin.

Sniper Foo........

On History Channel now.

Bolt out!

Bolt
Yucky, yucky weather in.........., NC, - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 00:25:53 (ZULU)

Wes,

Thanks for the kind words. My wife is very intelligent. She just lacks confidence. If she had my confidence she would be rule this country. Biggest mistake she made was marrying me. But my confidence is what got her. HAha.

How's the job going? Guess you got what about two years plus there now? Or is it three plus now? Time just flys.

Savage country. I was out at the pistol range today shooting and there was a break in the action. We had some old pots haning under a plate rack to shoot for giggles from about 40 yrds. We all were taking a break so I pulled out the Savage 10FP in 223. Loaded some 75 grainers in it. Whacked the pots from about 50 yards no big deal. Well the guys just started talking crap. So I said well lets see you guys do this. I loaded up and shot the string holding up one pot. They said luck. So with the next shot I cut the second string. They said dont shoot the last one we want to shoot it still. HAHA. Gun put away and a good laugh was had by me. That's why when some one asks what rifle they should get for under 800 bones I tell them a Savage. As you all aware Remmy's are made haphazard these days. My Winchester shoots well but used to foul like a beast in just a few shots. Savage seems the only company that cares about thier rep these days.

Chuck,

I smoked a Carlos Torano in the house yesterday and a Romeo & Juileta in the truck today. It's good to be the king.

Dirty Steve...........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 01:37:11 (ZULU)

"It's good to be the King!". Uh-huh. Yeah. Smoke one in the living room when the Battalion Commander's in the room. When I was working in the oil bidness (on the drill floor, worm corner, for a VERY short time) the motorman, Benny, told all and sundry one day "If I want to, I'll take a shit in the middle of the floor at MY house. His wife, who was busy at something else, offhandedly replied, "Yes, and the medical examiner will wipe yer ass." End of that conversation.

I had a very nice Partagas with Sarge last night with a beer and a shot of some kinda stumpwater scotch. (that's what it said it was on the bottle, anyway.) Made it home safe and sound, gotta go back in two weeks for another class, make me as employable as the young bucks, maybe.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 05:06:12 (ZULU)

Damn Steve, I go to Oklahoma to do some shooting with Chuck and you end up in MY AO! Ft. Bliss is only about 3 hours and Ruidoso - spell it right :-) is just at an hour away! Next time you come up to visit the Bn CO, ESPECIALLY if you decide to go to Ruidoso get Icee to give you my number and we'll try to meet someplace.

Badlands, typical weather, Saturday colder than..we'll you know, wind blowing like... BadLands, etc, etc. Sunday, sunny, warm little wind but was crazy at the 900yd steel, Chuck did a HELL of a job helping me get some better dope for my weapon. Aslo help me with my wind reading and calling Saturday, was a good day for THAT practice!

Later all!

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 07:46:15 (ZULU)

Ok Bolt, I gotta ask,

I have looked back a bit, and I have no idea what this "medicine" is, that you are referring to. Please, let me know.

I have to quit smoking too, and, well, I don't take it well. Grizzly bears get shot, and it sorta has me worried.

I only smoke a half a pack a day, but there is something cross wired in my head, cause just cold-turkeying those, and something or someone is gonna get destroyed.

I gots a problem, and you seem to have something that is helping you. I would like to know what that is, please.

Blessings all,

Sean Thomas
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 14:40:52 (ZULU)

Remington country....Stirring the pot...

Am I the only one having positive Remington rifle experiences???

Have a PSS that I stuck in a VS stock because I hated the fat pistol grip. It was originally scoped with a Mk4M3 and now wears a 3.5-10M3. My son mainly uses this rifle now. With my Dillon loaded handload it shoots MOA or smalller most of the time. Brock can make the ASC Between the Poles shot with this rig if the wind cooperates.

Have a first year production LTR (the DM model). Same scope as above and it also shoots MOA(usually smaller) with Fed Match or the handload.

Last year I bought a lightly used 223 LTR at a gun show. Figured if it didn't shoot I'd rebarrel it. It shoots my bulk, Dillon run 223 varmint load(26gr. Win 748/55gr. Ballistic tip) into 3/4 moa or less, usually the latter.

Only thing done to any of the above was trigger work and torqueing the action screws.

Chris Thomas has been kind enough to loan me one of the new S&B USMC M8541/3-12x50s for T&E. Needed a rifle to stick it on so I bought another 308 LTR..After a good barrel break in and the addition of Timney's new trigger this handy little gem shoots honest 3/4MOA or smaller groups with two different lots of Fed Match and my Dillon loaded handload.

ASC has been won by shooters with stock Remington rifles competing against the best there is in the custom realm(Twice by the same former Scout Sniper with a 308 PSS). Do these stock guns shoot in the .2s and.3s "with boring regularity"? I don't think so. As much as we all like nice rifles(I have Coopers and a Dakota) stock rifles can and will do the job. I have seen problems with stock Remingtons(like the bolt handle comming off) but not that many over the years. In the 5 years of running ASC I've seen rifles of all price points fail. Any of the above stock Remingtons are more than capable of performing well as recreation, competition, or work guns. Under the right conditions (ASC winter shoot??!!) even the most expensive rifles can fail. Are the GAP rifles or KMW rifles better than stock Remingtons? You bet they are!!! The question is, are they , like many other things in life, that many $s better or, necessary to adequately complete the task?

That ought to do it! Ducking for cover! Lindy?

outa here

Markwell
The Alleghenies, WV, - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 15:00:26 (ZULU)

Markwell -

Remingtons have been a crap-shoot, especially during the last few years. They manufacture a huge number of rifles, so you have to expect a few to fall through the cracks.

People tend to remember the bad ones, especially the ones that had no business making it out the factory door. I've seen a few!

ALAN
Monday, April 16, 2007, at 15:18:39 (ZULU)

Markwell...

>"Am I the only one having positive Remington rifle experiences???"<

I have had both. I have gone into detail about my poor experences here.

But there is another side.

I hate to be accused of being an optimist (Gawd forbid ;)... but the .264 Sendero-II stainless Flutie I bought last fall has been nothing but excellent on all counts.

The action is glass smooth with NO tool marks anywhere. all but two of the test groups with the Hornady 95 V-Max were touching. The worst was ~3/4"

Some of the loads were in the 65-70Kpsia range (heavy cratering), and I didn't clean the barrel until 60 rounds, and it cleaned up with a tiny bit of green, and light gray on the patches... with no brushing. The patches ran glass smooth from one end to the other.

Everything fit, the stock fit, nothing was "out of line" or "Off center" and the trigger was 3.5 pounds "out of the box".

This is a high class, slick as owl poo, out of the box, tack-holer.

I have a M700 CDL Ltd in 17 Fireball on lay-away. Before plunking down the deposit, I went over it with a fine toothed comb - same for the craftsmanship - action is smooth and flawless. The bolt face has none of the rough tooling marks I have experienced in the past 10 years. The trigger is light.

The stock (a copy of the Winchester "African", including the double pegs), fits perfectly, the barrel is centered in the channel.

I don't know... maybe (can we so hope) Remington has been reading SniperCountry and heard me bitching about them for the past ten years??

;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 17:26:05 (ZULU)

"Are the GAP or KMW better than stock Remingtons?" Maybe. Are they better than stock Howas? not $2000 worth. One of mine has just under 4000 rounds through it, and it still shoots .5 moa.....best group this weekend with Sarge was just under 3/4" at 200. Saw some PSS rifles last week that were shooting 2" or better at 300 yd hostage shots. Mo' $$ don't always make mo' bettah.

Sure wish I'd had one of those CheyTac PDA's though. Just on a whim, dialled in the 1k dope (Ah's poor an' iggnerent, so's I just had it scribbled in my cypher book) rolled into the riffle and only hit it in the lower left quadrant instead of dead center. Dang...shur wish'd I'da had me one a dem fancy things. And who the hell is this "Corey Olis" feller?

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 17:32:36 (ZULU)

I have two friends that both bought Remingtons three years ago. One was so pleased he sold it after 3 months. It would foul to beat the band in just a few shots. You could not get four decent groups out of it. Each group just got bigger and bigger.

The other decided he would make the gun shoot and tried numerous loads but the damn thing wouldn't group well at all. He saw my GAP rifle and said. Ah Ha! I shall take theREMMY TO A SMITH AND HAVE IT WORKED ON (sorry caps lock was hit) He ended up concieving a monster gun. 28" hextra heavy barrel new stock and the hole works. It finally shot well. But only after spending a ton of money.

"Am I the only one having positive Remington rifle experiences???"

Pretty much! HA.

I will sick with Savages and custom guns. Not that I plan on buying many more. But I like to have accurate toys. Going to get a 5th 1911 this coming week end. I guess two 38 supers will be enough. Its a custom built job used for the Bianchi Cup. He is tossing in 10 mags and a holster. I needed the extra mags so it works out well. He is getting my M1A NM in trade. Sorry Chuck, you have till Sunday to break in to the house and open the safe to steal it! (Chuck knows this gun is a real shooter).

Dirty Steve...............

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 18:05:53 (ZULU)

CatShooter,

I have had my eye on a push-feed Winnie rebarreled (Shilen barrel but probably not 'smithed by Shilen) in 264 WM. 27 in of stainless tube, smooth but unknown round count. Do you have any "magic" loads for the 264? Plus any advice on the caliber in general. I've read most of the usual stuff- no better than a 270, eats barrels, etc.... I've never had a 264 before and want something fast and flat to play with out around 500 yds (our longest KD range). I'm looking for a good place to start with handloads.

This is open to anyone else with anything to add, too, the more the better. Thanks in advance.

Erik in Kodiak
Monday, April 16, 2007, at 18:25:42 (ZULU)

Gents,

The reported West Virginia Tech shooting was reported as 1 dead and 7 or 8 wounded with suspect in custody about 9:00 AM this morn.

Now, at 10:30 PST it's a massacre with 21-22 dead, an unknown amount wounded, and the perp dead by his own hand. Makes you wonder what the real situation is...somehow it's hard to believe going from "suspect in custody" to an event of this proportion and the suspect "dead by his own hand". What did the cops do...hand him back his own gun?

More grist for the anti-gunner's mill, dammit.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 18:40:11 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve...Who built the Super? I have an old Bud Price super I had built on a Series 70 Colt in the late '70s..It's "super".

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 18:48:34 (ZULU)

Sir Wesley...

>"What did the cops do...hand him back his own gun?"<

You crack me up ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 18:53:39 (ZULU)

31 confirmed dead, per CNN.

Here we go again......

Duman
Monday, April 16, 2007, at 19:40:34 (ZULU)

Sean,

I don't know what Bolt is using but the prescription drug "Chantix" is a nicotine blocking agent and all the rave nowadays. You keep on smokin and set a quit date and by the time ya quit you haven't been absorbing any nicotine for the last 3/4 of time you've been smokin. It beats the nicotine habit and all you have to beat is the psychological habit, which may be harder.

Note: EAT something solid before taking this medicine!!!

If ya own 3 or 4 of every gun it makes it easier to bring home new ones. She can't remember them all.....

John

acehigh
Blmgtn, IN, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 19:46:20 (ZULU)

Obviously no one was armed nor did they fight back at Virginia Tech..The Libs will have a field day with this one. Apparently the guy had a pair of Glocks and several mags. 32 fatalities.

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 19:47:35 (ZULU)

Markwell, It was built in the Land Down Under. I don't know who the smith was. But it does shoot. I have an old Les Bear 38 stupid as well. It was made before he had his own frames and slides made. Next tiome I get to Bianchi I will ask the guy my friend got it from who the smith was.

Dirty Steve.........

steve dickerson
Monday, April 16, 2007, at 20:12:28 (ZULU)

Edited for double post........

steve dickerson
Monday, April 16, 2007, at 20:12:28 (ZULU)

"Are the GAP or KMW better than the stock Remington?"

YOU'D BETTER BELIEVE IT!

Those who have never owned or lived with a GAP or KMW can only go by what they percieve to be true. Those who own examples of either of these fine rifles know it for a fact. I suppose that there are always those that say they can't tell the difference, and that certainly reflects on their ability to judge such things ;)

I've seen/had my share of bad Remingtons, and had some good ones too. I've never seen a bad GAP or KMW rifle. I presently own one of each and won't hesitate to buy another when the time is right. I won't order a new Remington sight unseen because that's become a crapshoot, and I don't gamble.

ALAN
Monday, April 16, 2007, at 21:14:26 (ZULU)

Sir Wes,

I heard an update on my way home from work, and the new total is supposedly 31 dead, and 39 wounded. And with several different crime scenes this had to take a while didn't it?

You said the libs will have a field day with this one. I agree they will try, but it only reminds us of what happens if someone decides its your turn to die, and you're not armed, or trained to fight back. If this killer had run into one or two guys from this website instead of a bunch of unarmed kids he'd likely be the only KIA.

Does anyone have any information about what the police did once they were alerted of the murders? Surely they did not wait to go in after him? Thats what happened in Columbine.

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 23:00:53 (ZULU)

Bill:

Police are finally changing tactics if they are dealing with one or more "active shooters". None of this form a perimeter and wait for SWAT. New policy is to go in with guns blazing. Not a lot of fun for the first officers on-scene, but it will reduce the death tolls.

Don't know about the response for this specific incident.

Rod Regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, April 16, 2007, at 23:28:31 (ZULU)

Sean...........

15 days, 7 hours, 0 minutes and 20 seconds by my clock. I'm learning alot about using Chantix (Sarge was right as usual) from many successful quitters that used it and from my own experience.

First, don't follow the instructions. Go at least two full weeks before the quit date, especially if you're a large person.

Second, time your doses to coincide with the times you enjoyed smoking the most minus about an hour and a half. That will put the drug in the blood stream when it needs to be there.

Third, you have to eat something, even if it is a couple of pieces of bread when you take the pills + drink lots of water or other liquids. Don't take this shit on an empty stomach!

Lastly, the stuff WILL work, I'm almost proof of this. I didn't want to quit and only had motivation because the hospital went tobacco free on the entire campus. I'm now wanting to quit and finding it 1000 times easier than my last 11 tries with all other methods including Zyban that damn near drove me insane (more than normal). With the exception of a setback, the meds take care of most of the anxiety and waves of craving that I have had. I also learned that it is better NOT to use nicotine supplements.

I was a 1.5-2 pack a dayer. You shouldn't have any problems.

Wind.............

I'm figgering out about 33 minutes of wind at Butner today. Would have been a fun day to shoot :) Power lines and trees down all over creation. Kinda messy.

Keltec 380.......

Come on folks. How many of you are carrying this as a bug gun? Need some decent ammo choices. I've never shot anything this light.

Bolt out!

Bolt
very sad for VA tech folks......, NC, - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 00:07:02 (ZULU)

I hear that the final count is 33.

The libs will milk this one, but I have also seen that discussions are also saying that VA has full carry laws, EXCEPT in the colleges and lower schools.

And the Judge on Fox said that if a student had a licensed CCW, it would ended after the first or second shooting... or might have never happened.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 00:26:25 (ZULU)

VA Tech:

Just underscores the lunacy of "gun free zones". Only those inclined to obey laws will be disarmed. Crooks and loons won't care.

Would this shooting death toll happen at:

- A gun show?

- A police station?

- A shooting range?

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 00:39:03 (ZULU)

Hey guys...

Go here and VOTE:

http://abcnews.go.com/

It's running 2:1 our favor.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 01:00:51 (ZULU)

In response to John's comment - I've never owned a Remington. I have had three, and still have two, Winchester Model 70 HBVs (the third burned up in a fire.)

All have been 3/4 MOA guns out of the box. Never had to do anything to them but replace the action screws with hex-drive screws from Brownell's and adjust the triggers, using Lito's fine instructions.

My Accuracy International is easier to shoot well - so much so that lately I've been shooting the Model 70's, which force me to use better form - but it shoots only a little better.

I've seen a lot of Remingtons, though, and they seem to be uneven, rather like Kimber handguns have been of late. Some shoot pretty well. Some suck. I prefer to avoid the luck of the draw with firearms.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 01:04:32 (ZULU)

Bolt, congrats on the stopping smoking. When I carry my .380 I load it with Win Silvertips. Practice is with ball ammo, strange that it cost more than 9mm.

Fred Hartman
Toledo, Ohio, USA - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 03:56:04 (ZULU)

Rod,

This thing was over by the time I heard about any of it. I had court today, and did not get done until early afternoon then I went back to my "crash-pad" apartment, and got my uniforms and gear cleaned up and ready for next week before heading off to my real home. From what I have heard so far it was a tough call for the police. They had no idea that this murderer was gonna go on a rampage two hours after the first murders. They thought it was a domestic violence related incident and confined to the first crime scene. They must be wrung-out by now. And the media is not helping the matter any from what I have seen.

Columbine was the spark that got our department involved bigtime into to training for "active shooter" incidents. You are right about active shooter incidents. You go right to the source and stop it.

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 03:57:08 (ZULU)

The news out of Virginia is precisely why I've tried to put together this class up in Oklahoma. A lot of departments, mine included, refuse to believe it will ever happen here, and are going to study it and argue it to death. They're more than happy if the Feds come by and drop a ton of money on them to get it done, then cobble up some shitty program to satisfy the lawyers and PR hacks. But, actually pony up some cash for actual training? Hell no. In any case, I'm probably going to be pulling the ripcord soon, and I'd like to know that I'm leaving behind at least a few on my shift that will have some idea of what the F**k to do if it hits the fan. So, that being said, there's probably still some room left in the class for anyone who wants to attend. Tactical carbine. Not yer momma's TC class. Run by Rich Johnson, Clovis, NM SWAT team commander. Oklahoma CLEET certified, so it's probably convertable to whatever state you're from. May 3rd through the 6th. $400 for the course, if you've been there, you know the accomodations are free, you'll need a carbine, tac vest or something to carry your mags, duty pistol and 750 rds for the carbine, 250 pistol. I've got six major high schools in my area, and a slew of elementary and middle schools. Not on my watch, and not in my city. Not without the BG getting dead. Ya'll come up and let's get trained up.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 05:14:37 (ZULU)

If you vote the ABC poll, take both. There's a big difference in the numbers on what amounts to not putting metal detectors at entrances.

I wouldn't bet a bottle of 'baccy spit that they won't publish the poll figures if it doesn't come out the way they want.

WR Moore
Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 05:52:47 (ZULU)

Bill:

Don't know if it got much play in the US news, but there was an active shooter incident in Montreal (Dawson College) within the last year. Police officers were there for some other reason, heard the gunfire and rapidly moved to contact with the shooter. Gunfire was exchanged between the active shooter and the police officers, shooter was hit and apparently then committed suicide. The quick intervention of the on-scene officers was credited with keeping the victim count much lower than it could have been.

Read more here:

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/04/16/canada.shootings.ap/

From what I've now heard and read on the VA Tech incident, responding officers were not as favourably positioned to respond. Unfortunate circumstances, no aspersion on those involved.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 06:32:16 (ZULU)

ROD,

IT ENDED WELL SO THAT'S WHY IT WASN'T BUT A SHORT STORY ON OUR NEWS. Had it ended real poorly it would have been big big news.

Most of the folks on a college campus are not old enough to own a pistol. How old was this guy? Have they released a name.

I would have read more net articles but just got home and a cow was out. That's half my herd so I had to go get her.

I sure hope this guy (EDITED)

Active shooter? The only way to handle it is just go in. Nothing fancy he is probably just an untrained moron, so shoot him and be done with it.

Lito, Like the Demo's give a rats ass what the poll says. How did the shooting make you feel? That's what counts. I still voted tho... I kept a 20 gauge in my dorm room. I hunted grouse on the weekends. Of course between that and squirrels plus fishin I didn't get to class much. Hence I had to become a cop... HAHA.

Dirty Steve.............

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 07:13:08 (ZULU)

Bolt,

Can`t help you with the Keltec ammo, but I have been very close to buying that model several times now, so I`d be interested in hearing how it works out for you. Be great to have in the summer with shorts and tees and certainly can`t argue about the price (if it goes bang every time). Borders on being too small for me and the mags don`t drop free if I remember correctly. Let me know what you think.

Picking up my M&P compact .40 on Wed. Hopefully that`ll be a successful addition to the stable. Ahhh, the smell of fresh polymer on a snowy/rainy/windy spring day. Now if we can defeat PA house bill #760, and stop sicko`s from shooting innocent students, maybe I`ll get to keep them for a while. This maintaining-rights-granted-by-God thingie is getting pretty tiring.

Steve Racer
Somewhere in Dillsburg, PA, - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 07:13:45 (ZULU)

Oops!

Just realized that was 2 "Steve" posts in row. Someone throw the confusion flag on the field.

(Damn, now it`s three!! Sorry.)

Steve Racer
somewhere in Dillsburg , PA, USA - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 07:21:01 (ZULU)

Well it hasn't even been 24 hours since the shooting started at VTech and the news has drug out one of the Columbine students stating that since the gun show loophole that let the kids buy guns at Columbine wasn't closed it allowed this shooting to happen.

The anti-gunner's don't lose much time do they. Nor do the Monday morning quarterbacks, a lot of criticism on how Vtech handled things.

Sorry for the little rant, wasn't in the mood for the news this morning.

A lot of people in this area have kids at VTech. So far none of them have received bad news. Send your prayers out to the families of the students there.

Keith

Keith
Northcentral, WV, - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 11:45:10 (ZULU)

Damn, they are on a roll. ABC news stated that due to Congress' action of allowing the assault weapons ban bill to lapse this person may have been able to buy high capacity magazines to use during the shooting. They had someone from the Brady group say ".....instead of being able to fire two or three shots he could spray the class room with twenty rounds".

As far as I know they haven't even released any information about the firearm he used.

It's going to be a feeding frenzy. Emotions rule, commonsense be damned, safety over freedom. Come along little sheeple, come along, Aunt Sarah and the rest of the liberals will protect you.

I know I don't post here much but I needed an outlet this morning. It is to early to get worked up like this.

Keith

Keith
Northcentral, WV, - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 12:15:14 (ZULU)

This kinda puts things in perspective.... Take note of the date.

Tuesday, January 31, 2006

Gun bill gets shot down by panel

HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college

campuses, died in subcommittee.

By Greg Esposito

381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and

employees the right to carry handguns on campus died

with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee

on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday

in the subcommittee stage, the first of several

hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert,

R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia

Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable

Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on

the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead

for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to

hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university

community is appreciative of the General Assembly's

actions because this will help parents, students,

faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment

Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee

that discussed the bill.

Most universities in Virginia require students and

employees, other than police, to check their guns with

police or campus security upon entering campus. The

legislation was designed to prohibit public

universities from making "rules or regulations

limiting or abridging the ability of a student who

possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from

lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

The legislation allowed for exceptions for

participants in athletic events, storage of guns in

residence halls and military training programs.

Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined

for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a

concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned

the university's authority, while the Virginia

Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the

presence of guns on campus.

In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence

prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or

employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from

bringing them into campus facilities.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 13:12:43 (ZULU)

Went to the doctor yesterday, as I was feeling a bit odd. Turns out my blood pressure was 170/117. On top of that, he heard a heart murmur that wasn't there my last physical. To quote Brandon Frasier in that movie, "The Mummy", "This just keeps gettin' better and better!". Good thing he gave me something to get my pressure down...just read the Drudge Report while waiting for the coffee pot to finish. The whole damned world has gone absolutely stark, raving mad. Hey, Gooch, if yer still lurking.....it's coming, dude, it's gotta be soon!

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 14:29:41 (ZULU)

Alan,

Just got a call from Boses, my barreled action is on its way back to me wrapped in wax paper and cosmolene. How long should I leave it wrapped up to get the "Green" tint I am looking for??? I am sure the longer the better but I would like to start shooting it soon.

I will get the stock finished up this week. I stained it a darker color. I wasn't happy with the lighter walnut look for that area of a sniper rifle. I hope to get the bolt blued this next week at a local gun shop.

I was looking for a Redfield scope but now I may just put on a "Close", look a like, Leupold so I can shoot it.

I don't recall if I told you or not but I broke the barrel in before I sent it off an then shot some groups with it. Not impressed so far. It was a consistant 1" gun with nearly everything. It just shot round patterns. I am missing something with it just don't know what yet. I hope it will start shooting better with some rounds through it.

Once again, THANKS A MILLION FOR ALL YOUR INPUT AND HELP WITH THIS!!!

Pat
Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 15:28:56 (ZULU)

Columbine was a clusterfuck. The gun-show sales were legal, before and after the gun-show background check law was passed (in large part due to John McCain's TV ads promoting the bill). The only thing illegal was the 'straw' purchase aspect, which was not preventable. The law enforcement people involved are still releasing details and timelines from that day. To describe their inaction as 'disgusting' doesn't even begin to describe the sentiment in CO.

VT is a different animal. Definitely pre-planning, but extremely complicated logistically, due to size of campus. I've never 'seen the elephant', nor have the desire, but would like to think I'd have jumped at the guy instead of being lined up against a wall. The passengers from Flight-93 should be considered models to be followed.

Having a CCW involves a lot of responsibility and maturity. I don't recall that many people with that sense of responsibiity, during my college years. Even in graduate school. Hell, I wouldn't even trust some of the professors with firearms. Or the campus security.

I don't have the answers, but it's more complicated than a singular solution will address.

Duman
Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 16:53:56 (ZULU)

"I'm sure the university

community is appreciative of the General Assembly's

actions because this will help parents, students,

faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

I'm sure glad they feel safe. But I personally would rather be safe than feel safe. Each individuals safety rests entirely in thier own hands. For they shall be the only ones there they can count on when the time comes. I know I'm preaching to the choir but what the heck. If one idiot reads this and a light bulb comes on it did some good. I love it when I am told cops are never around when you need one. I reply, Well you were he right? This may shock you but you have the right to defend your self. In fact just yesterday a guy was involved in an accident and a woman driving the other car began hitting him. Why? Who the hell knows. Even an uninvolved party(military guy) couldn't say why. I said why didn't you hit her."I can't hit a woman!" I said well then you concented to the assualt in my opinion. I would have knocked her A$$ out, I told him. Am I the only one here that will punch a woman that needs it? Chuck, please disregard this question. I know what happend when your first wife hit you. Worked though right?

Any way this guy definitly had mental problems. Anti-social behavior and all.

Dirty Steve.............

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 17:37:27 (ZULU)

Gents,

Steve, Duman, and all.

The continual response of politicians, educators, and some senior police officials continues to sicken me. Obviously, they just don't get it. Nor do they want too. So, the position from the moral high ground seems to be that it's to bad that there were about 30 deaths and an equal number wounded, because no one could or would do anything to stop this asshole. Apparently, that's acceptable to those folks rather than have firearms on campus and elsewhere. What ever happened to their "If it just saves one life" line? Time we turned that one around. Meanwhile, more will die in similar incidents.

Steve, you are right. We are ALL responsible for our own safety. When this happens the gloves need to come off and the instigator needs to be dealt with. Rapidly, agressively, with every means at your disposal.

You will rarely find me unarmed off duty. Usually a 1911, a couple mags, and Emerson Commander folder, Surefire 6P, and a cell phone are with me. A lot of responsibility? You bet. Something I've been preaching and teaching my students for years. In short, you ARE your best "safety net".

Time to "saddle up" for work before I get a maudlin and preachy. You guys are the best...

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 18:33:01 (ZULU)

Pat -

You need to keep that thing wrapped up for at least two weeks (and preferably longer) at 90*F. Build yourself a hot box if you have to.

Where's the bullet seated in relation to the lands? You might want to play with that for more accuracy. How's the stock bedding? It might be a good idea to at least bed the recoil lug, if you haven't already.

Please keep me advised of your progress.

Oh, BTW, a long cylindrical package for me from Scotland (guess who) arrived in NY yesterday. Won't be long now:))

ALAN
Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 20:48:35 (ZULU)

I just checked into the Sniper Country PX to get a mildot master and was surprised to see how much stuff is there. I've been reading the roster for about 6 years now and never go to the PX. You guys should check it out. Scott Powers answers the phones and processes the orders personally.

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 22:08:45 (ZULU)

Rod,

Nope I dont recall the university shooting in Canada. That is probably because it didn't meet the media requirement for broadcast. They need lots of dead folks to broadcast it. If this guy had got shot dead by some armed victim before he had a chance to murder those kids they wouldn't have broadcasted it more than once or twice.

Sir Wes,

I am not required by regulation to be armed off-duty unless I am driving my police car. However, I am required to carry my badge, and police ID at all times. If I have to carry the credentials then I am going to carry the gun, and if I am going to carry the gun, I am going to carry cuffs, and if I am going to carry that stuff a Surefire light makes sense too. If I am in the cruiser off-duty then the portable radio is up front with me(I usually keep my duty belt in the trunk in case my crash-pad apt. is burglarized). I have responded to an officer needing help while I am off-duty lots of times(and they have backed me in the same manner). Its all about doing the right thing.

Be safe,

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 22:58:02 (ZULU)

Hmmmm.....The Mayor of Nagasaki, Japan, was just shot and killed by a member of the Yakuza, with a handgun. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that handguns are absolutely FORBIDDEN to anyone not a police officer or in the military, and that only during a tour of duty. How did this person get a handgun? Could it have been through criminal activity? Furthermore, since handguns are verboten, shouldn't the Mayor have been safe from violent crime? We all know that guns cause crime. Most importantly, why are the media not trumpeting this act all over the airwaves, and using it as further proof that banning guns will erase crime? Could it be that all it would do is show the COMPLETE LUNACY OF GUN LAWS? I need to go duct tape my head to keep it from exploding! No wonder my damned pressure is so high....

Yes, Steve, I know you know. For those of us who are wondering, the first ex-Mrs. Hunt had her fingers in my eyeballs, trying to remove them. I had warned her previously about fighting by big-boy rules. She is now, and has been for thirty-one years, briefed on how I deal with domestic violence issues.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 17, 2007, at 23:47:50 (ZULU)

RE: ABC polls- Did anyone else notice the questions were rather slanted?

Dirty Steve,

Have you ever noticed that whenever a cop can't make someone agree with them, they're displaying anti-social behavior? I thought cops were supposed to take reports and protect the public, not shit on the victims.

I'm not saying that this is what you're doing, but it sounds that way.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 02:08:02 (ZULU)

I'm shocked, the ABC poll is still up. The mo gun laws folks are getting whipped near 3 to 1, but the metal detectors on campus folks are doing much better.

Forget who posted the VT rules, I'm aghast that I've unknowingly violated their policies during several visits to the equine facility.

I was wondering Tuesday morning why people let themselves be lined up and shot without charging the shooter. Oh, wait, it wasn't a video game!

WR Moore
Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 02:33:04 (ZULU)

WR Moore: "I was wondering Tuesday morning why people let themselves be lined up and shot without charging the shooter. "

If you heart shoot a deer with a smallish (6mm or so) rifle, he has a good ten seconds before he falls. This asshole was using a crummy little 9m&m pistola. He was untrained, which means that he could no way hit a moving target and you'd probably survive a 9mm hit anyway. A perfectly servicable blackjack can be improvised from your socks, the change in your pocket and your car keys. Smash a chair to make clubs. Rush him and break major bones...do something. Anything is better than standing there and waiting.

30+ people? There's no way that should happen.

These nice middle class kids were never taught the harsh realities.

CDC'
Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 03:56:16 (ZULU)

I am surprised that they stood there and took it. I am proud to come from 200 or 300 years of Va. rednecks and am a 1979 graduate of the Va Tech Corps of Cadets. I know that there was at least one Cadet among the murdered, I don't believe that he would be a sheep. I always kept a pistol up in the dorm, wouldn't have done me any good in class though. I can't believe that our nation does not have a "fight back" mindset after 9/11. I'm a cop, so I guess I should know better. Mike Dominick, Missoula Mt

mike464
missoula , mt, usa - Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 04:37:40 (ZULU)

Hawgs -

There is a gun control poll on the C-Span website pro or con.

Make yourselves be heard!

http://capitalnews.org/

or click my name

ALAN
Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 04:59:35 (ZULU)

CDC,

I watched the news and they showed pictures of the pistols. Apparently one of them was a 9mm, and the other was a .22LR. This guy supposedly had lots of issues prior to the murders. He was reported to have been on Prozac, or the same class of drugs. He bought the guns five weeks prior to the murders. He had chains and locks to secure the doors. He had some weird crap written on his arms. This nutcase was reported to police in the past for suspicious behavior. Its just like Columbine in so many ways. They knew the killers were on Prozac, and had made threats of violence. There was a guy near me that went nuts and killed several people in a workplace shooting back in the 90s. He was on Prozac too. And apparently this is not the worst shooting of this type in this country. In 1922 there was a shooting in Michigan when 45 people were murdered.

Bill

wbledsoe
USA - Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 06:36:44 (ZULU)

Mike464,

Its all about being nice, and not fighting back when you are attacked. The Politically Correct message is that violence is always wrong. Kids in school that fight back usually catch more hell than the asshole who started the fight. I guess I am a redneck too, because I never got the message either.

CDC,

I have to wonder what the hell everyone was doing while this murderer was chaining the doors shut?

And then they had that "hug-a-thon" today. They should have been telling the kids if this crap happens again dont just stand there and let them kill you. But instead they had that whacked out poetry professor reciting some meaningless crap.

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 07:40:52 (ZULU)

Travis,

That guy was getting assaulted for 5 mins. I got the call 20 minutes after he called and took me 5 mins to get there. He should have warned her to stop. Then her failing to do it, knock her out. I did write up the accident and the Assault report. But I have NO RESPONSIBLIITY FOR HIS SAFETY!!! THE SUPREME COURT HAS RULED THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN. Oh the gal left prior to my arrival by about ten minutes.

Cops are not always right. However the general public often thinks because TJ Hooker did it, all cops can do it. There must be a law against it type mentallity. I have had folks say you need to arrest him/her. I reply for what? They reply with an answer like becuase it's not right. I reply, Your correct it was a shitty thing to do but the is no law against it. They get upset and call my SGT. He gets to try to explain the law to them and leaves frustrated. Cops in major departments are normally correct regardless of what the victim or general public may think. I don't include small departments because I have not worked for one.

Cops hate citizens who think they know the law. Because they don't, but think they do. After all they watch cop shows on TV. There is a list out there called "Why cops hate you" it is funny (to me) and explains why we are frustrated with the folks we deal with on a daily basis. I know my post sounded a bit harsh, but I was tactfull when I told him I just hate typing a bunch like I just did here on this post. I have arrested folks for robbery and had pounded the crap out of them only to have them appologize to me in front of my SGT for making me hit them. The SGT asks if this happens to me often, I told him yes. He got a call a week later by a guy for 3 days in a row. He wanted the SGT to thank me for Not kicking his Butt. Sgt told me and said he did not want to know anything about it just wanted to relay the message. I can be the absolute nicest officer to arrest you or your worst night mare. It is up to the public to decide which of me they wish to deal with. Becuase I tell some one something they don't like,I am rude in thier opinion. Keep in mind I work in the 8th largest city and on the worst side of town(West siiiide). After 13 years I still make more arrests and write more tickets than any one else in my substation and there is only on other guy I can think of with more arrests per month on the department. And he and I are usually within 1 or 2 arrests per month apart. This does not include our special unit that does not respond to calls for service. RANT OFF.....

My point of that post was, here is a guy with the means to protect himself but didn't. He wanted the government to do it. I have accepted the fact our Nation has become a Nation of cowards. Meaning the brave are in the minority. That was my point not the entire incident. Which if you want to email me directly I will tell you the whole story. Not just the tiny portion I wrote about. The rest of the story had nothing to do with him being a coward.

Please click on my name for the "Why cops hate you" editorial.

Dirty Steve......... (Why do you think they call me Dirty Steve? Every dirty job that comes along........)

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 07:56:43 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve,

Thanks for the link to the editorial. It made my mornng.

John

acehigh
Indy, IN, USA - Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 15:08:50 (ZULU)

Gents,

For anybody here who holds a regular civi job, such as myself, you may find this helpful. Yesterday, the sheeple in charge at my work gathered us together to make sure we know that guns on the property will not be tolerated and are grounds for immediate discharge. I light of the events at VT they want to make sure that they provide a safe work envirionment. When they were done I asked, "So let me see if I understand you correctly, you want to make sure that in the event of some whacko coming in here and opening fire, we have removed all means to protect ourselves, right?"

It drew a nice laugh from those assembled and reddened the face of the super giving the meeting, but it got the point across nicely.

Go here to find out more and I also have a call into the Attorney Gen. to find out the "facts" on my rights. They do not have carte blanche when it comes to searching your private vehicle. Any input from those in the know here is welcome, even if I`m wrong.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=193

If the link doesn`t work, it`s under the issues tab on the ILA site.

Steve Racer
Somewhere in Dillsburg, PA, - Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 15:12:11 (ZULU)

Speed Racer,

Did they prohibit the carrying of Pepper Spray in your work place? Yeah I know Pepper Spray won't stop a bullet. But your use of it may allow others to go home. If your real lucky you may get to go home too, but don't count on it. Be cautious though of accidental discharges. Man you can clear a roll call room. We have had several go off and it is funny. Well Cop funny. It has not happend since we went to real chairs instead of school desk type chairs. Imagine a 250 pound guy sitting in a school desk with a pistol belt on and all the crap that goes a long with it. Something will get bumped into.

John,

Glad I could brighten your morning. My work for the day is done I helped one person. It really speaks the truth about cops whether any one will admit it or not.

Bill,

I think you hate that touchy feely crap as much as I do.

Dirty Steve.............

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 16:19:56 (ZULU)

Bill Bledsoe,

This is not a Columbine. Columbine was an example of poor parenting, poor schooling, confined area, and poor leadership. The police learned, and performed well at a later shooting situation in Bailey, CO. There is direct accountability in the Columbine situation.

VT is an open situation, much like any city, business, or other organization. The students? They were in class, where they were supposed to be. The police? They were investigating what was thought to be a singular event. Logistics? Dozens of buildings, thousands of rooms, tens of thousands of people. Prozac? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Someone knows something, and they haven't talked yet.

The shooter was responsible. Period.

Duman
Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 17:25:19 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve....depends on what I'm touching and feeling.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 17:48:57 (ZULU)

Duman,

Prior to Columbine there was a work place shooting in Louisville KY. The killer was on Prozac. The kid in Columbine was on Prozac, or Ritlin. And now it appears that this killer at VT was also on Prozac, or drugs in the same classification. There was a prior history of problems with the kid in Columbine. There are at least two incidents with the killer at VT for stalking women. You are right, its not the same situation, but we can't ignore the facts either. I think Prozac may be helpful to most of the patients its prescribed for, but its also been proven to increase the possibility of violent behavior in some people. Every time I get dispatched to a call involving a suicidal subject with a gun that is on meds you can bet I want to know what type of meds are involved. Sorry if I failed to make my OPINION clear. Prozac/Ritlin, prior history of the suspects, and mass murder were the links between the two incidents I was making reference to.

We agree that the physical situation in VT is nothing like Columbine. VT is located on over 2,000 acres, and has over a hundred buildings with a student population of about 19,000 or so.

Yes, the killer was responsible for the murders. He did it. The police did the best they could based on the information they had.

Bill

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 19:35:52 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve,

If you do, as you stated, believe in the crap you posted the link to, YOU are the one with anti-social tendencies. YOU are the one that needs to hang up your gunbelt.

I agree that we need some cops that aren't afraid to crack a skull or two, but the citizenry is NOT your enemy. If they annoy you so much, get a rent a cop job guarding an empty warehouse at night.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 20:34:53 (ZULU)

Bill Bledsoe,

I apologize for being abrasive. I think we are on the same page.

Duman
Wednesday, April 18, 2007, at 20:55:40 (ZULU)

Guys, the "hate the civilians" part of that little missive is over the top. BUT, if you've seen some of the situations cited actually occur, the stupidity of the general populace is incredible.

I was once walking out of an emergency room, and stopped to watch a nicely dressed guy drive in the ambulance entrance-past the EMERGENCY VEHICLES ONLY- signs and park on the yellow line at the curb. He got out of his vehicle, carefully read the smaller no parking/tow away zone sign and then walked up and asked me if he'd get a ticket for parking there.

I informed him that if he didn't move his vehicle immediately, he'd be ticketed, towed and that if his vehicle delayed an ambulance, sued. He moved it.

There's a documented case of an Indiana State Trooper having a gunfight with a guy on a road. After it was all over, he realized that a crowd of about 20 people had been watching the festivities. At least one knew the deceased assailant and voiced great satisfaction over the results.

WR Moore
Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 00:23:59 (ZULU)

Travis,

I'll take your advise for what I paid for it. You may do the same.

I don't hate all citizens just the ones that create thier own problems and want me to solve them. Many of you appearantly have never met the type folks I am talking about. I refer to the I am a mulitple time convicted felon raising Gang Banger thugs type. The guy in the incident I wrote about had only a minor srcatch on his 22 yr old POS vehicle and wanted to sue the other ladys Insurance for an injury he "may have gotten". He was also a convicted child molester.

Dirty Steve........

Diurty Steve
Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 01:27:15 (ZULU)

Travis,

Dirty Steve doesn’t need me, or any one else, defending him. I have only spent one day with Dirty Steve shooting a match, but I saw enough that I would be proud to call him a friend.

HDR
OK, - Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 01:55:52 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve- I have several shooting partners and friends that are cops and I've seriously considered becoming one myself. I understand where your coming from, loved the post, and I'm thankful for what guys like you do.

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area , CA, - Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 02:51:29 (ZULU)

Steve,

I'd have been less than helpful to a convicted child molester that wanted to sue someone for yet to be named injuries, too. What a tool.

I accidentally bumped a guy from Wrong parts auto, er, I mean, O'reilly's. Cracked the paint on a rubber bumper on an '80's model hatchback, and offered to have it painted. This tool wanted to sue me for a $1500 paint job. I offered him $300 for the whole car. I think insurance company gave him $75!

I had a friend that was a sheriff's deputy that told me how he'd have LIKED to solve the problem with people that had 3 night a week domestic disputes. He wanted to give them both a gun, then leave.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 03:44:55 (ZULU)

I read Dirty Steve's post to the line, "First of all, civilians are so goddamn stupid."

Here's a news flash for the profoundly stupid sack of shit who wrote that: Cops ARE civilians.

CDC'
Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 03:54:51 (ZULU)

Travis: I work with Dirty Steve every day. I've made some calls that would turn your hair white with him. I trust him with my life, and more, my rifles. As for your comment he should hang up his gun belt....shut the f**k up. And, if you don't like that, tough shit.

And, that was edited only at Dirty's urging.

CDC....semantics. Cops refer to all non-cops as "civilians". I know, I know....if you're not in the military, you're a civilian. BFD.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 05:29:48 (ZULU)

HDR, thanks for the kind words. But you for got to mention what a great long range shot I was. Haha... I owe you and Frank a beer.

Marc, It's a good job. With some real neat hair raising times. I chased a guy for 45 mins in a car. He shot at me and a buddy. Then off's himself in front of the media. That was neat. Since it was an in custody death I didn't have to write the report. Some other smuck did. HAHA....

Travis, yeah that car was an 85 Thunderbird. Originally red but faded pink I new what he wanted as soon as I got there. Guys like him make all our insurance rates go up. Please disrgard Chucks post. He has been under some pressure lately. His blood pressure is way up. It's just when your in a job where I have had 4 friends shot in one night and lost half a dozen or more co-workers in the past. You kind of think everyone is against you. No hard feelings.

CDC, you are correct sir. Cops are civilians. I never said other wise. Atleast don't remember saying other wise. If I did I was WRONG.

WR, I think he just meant the stupid citizens. Not them as a whole.You have to take it for what it is intended for, amusement. Like when I had a road blocked with my patrol car. Flares burning bright blocking off the road also. And some idiot drives around my car by jumping over the curb. I stop him mid-way around asking him why on earth he thinks I am sitting there.... Those are the type he hates. As do most cops.

Dirty Steve.......

Dirty Steve
Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 05:52:58 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve,

Don`t have the policy in front of me, but I seem to remember somthing about anything that could be used as a weapon, so I think pepper spray falls into that category. I do have a spray that I carry(to the shock of those who know me) and it would be my first choice if possible. I don`t relish the idea of shooting someone, even if they need it. The whole meeting was just feel good, warm and fuzzy, don`t ask-don`t tell crappola, presented in threat format. I took a copy of the NRA link in to my union rep., who was NOT present for the meeting, and also happens to be a waste of skin, and let him know the jig is up and management is full of shit. My ONLY concern was that the stupid amongst my union brethren would curtail their normal habits because of fear of losing their job. That, and I like to ram this kind of shit down management`s collective throats whenever the opportunity arises. Didn`t hear back from the AG today. Will call again tomorrow. Just like a dog with a bone now.

FWIW, I`ve been to SA several times. My brother and Mom both live there for 20 years. If I had to be a cop there based on the little I`ve seen, I might not like peoples much either. Hey, is Texas a recip. state with PA? How do you guys feel about out-of-towners carrying? Or do I have to ask? The last time we drove down, I had my little helper locked in my R&D Handi-gun safe the whole trip. Wasn`t sure if I could put it in it`s home spot on my side or not.

Be safe. SR

Steve Racer
somewhere in Dillsburg , PA, USA - Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 07:24:03 (ZULU)

Speed Racer, (Sorry I just like saying that. If I were a PI I would go by the name, Steve Chase Private Eye)

Go here http://www.txdps.state.tx.us:80/administration/crime_records/chl/reciprocity.htm or click on my name for the poop straight form the source. I think every normal person should be allowed to carry a gun. Wow, that crap coming out about the nutbar in Va. Shows home Team just was all there. He obvioiusly lied on his AFT form about not being nuts. I work mainly in or near Indian Creek. I don't know if your folks are familiar with it. But it was really rowdy when I started.

Do I sleep? Not Much....

Oh I'm a Grandpa. Came home and my mare had her foal. A little boy. Uglier than hell too. Haha. Foals really aren't cute they just look so leggy.

Dirty Steve.............

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 08:28:17 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve: "CDC, you are correct sir. Cops are civilians. I never said other wise."

The dumb-ass at your link said that civilians are stupid. The implication I carried from that was that he was too stupid to know that cops are civilians.

CDC'
Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 11:08:23 (ZULU)

Hey Ya'll,

Couple of things... Did anyone who heard the turd that shot up VT notice that he sounded just like the tapes of Muslim suicide bombers ?

Maybe I'm just hearing things...

Steve Racer,

Stick it to em' !

Dirty Steve,

Congrats on the foal, I think ??? Hey a long time ago I was drinking beer with a swat trainer buddy and he was telling ' dick head public interaction' stories ( how's that for PC ? ) and I just had to ask him how he had the fortitude to get up and go to work everyday. I asked him just how he kept from strangling folks. To which he replied " I treat folks as nice as they will let me". I've tried to live my life that way ever since... Some of the best advice I ever got.

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 11:55:16 (ZULU)

Cops vs. Everyone else...

I have carried a gun for 30 years in different rolls. The biggest mistake we make as police officers is getting the "Us against them" attitude. You need to have good friends outside of the "JOB" so you will know that all the people you deal with are not assholes.

I have seen it happen for years and when I was a training officer I tried to instill in my rookies to not just have cop friends. When all you deal with is ass holes all day long its hard not to think that everyone is that way.

It takes an effort to make good friends outside of LE because everywhere you go your introduced as Pat Murphy State Trooper then you hear all the BS about everyone who was ever arrested. You need to get by that and let people get to know you as just you.

My best advice to you guys carring guns is treat everyone the way you would want to be treated when stopped then go from there. Make some good friends outside the job it will help you stay on the job longer.

Alan,

Barreled action came back cleaned up for the most part. It is a flat dull, dark, gray color. Its going to look good when I get it done. I am still doing the stock and should have it done in a week at the most.

I had a different smith install the barrel and sent him along a dummy round and he called and told me his reamer was shorter than my round so I would have no trouble kissing the rifling. I don't know what he's using to measue with but a mag length they are a ways from kissing anything!! I am going to play around with my loads and some other powders to see what it will do. Its shooting round patterns, like when you change one thing they suck togeather. I will keep you posted.

Pat
Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 13:27:51 (ZULU)

Hawgs -

It seems that we go through this same thing every so often. It gets tiring after you've scrolled through the posts and read the same kind of back and forth banter time and time again.

People have bad days - and cops probably have more than most folks. You really can't blame a person for wearing his heart on his sleeve when he goes out and puts himself in harms way every day. We just have to remember that we're all human beings and no matter if you're cop or "civilian" we're all in this together.

ALAN
Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 14:54:53 (ZULU)

I was going to post a long diatribe about stuff, but as I read it, I realized it made me sound even dumber than I am. Nutshell....if you don't know what you're talkng about, keep the lips together.

Steve, good news on the foal. Horse babies don't need braces when they hit thirteen!

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 15:19:18 (ZULU)

Pat,

You are correct about friends outside the department. In fact Chuck is the only one I associate with from the department when not at work on a regular basis. I mainly associate with, a geologist, an intelligence guy, a USGS water reader (reads lake , river and aquifer levels), a retired aircraft maintence worker, a DoD Civilian that certifies the Military working dogs, and an civilian book keeper for Uncle Sam. I think thats a neat mix. They are all guy nuts also. Too many guys end up dead after working because thaT IS ALL THEY KNOW. lIKE THE POOR DUMB BASTARD ON OUR DEPARTMENT WHO (sorry about the caps lock) has been there 50 years. He is over 70 and still there. Crips get on with your life I would like to tell him but thats coming 20 years too late.

Grammar country, Civilian-A civilian is a person who is not a member of his or her country's armed forces. The term is also often used colloquially to refer to people who are not members of a particular profession or occupation, especially by law enforcement agencies, which often use rank structures similar to those of military units. However, law enforcement personnel (at least in most English-speaking countries) are normally considered to be civilians themselves.

Momma is real protective of the baby. This is gunna be fun handling him. Momma gave me a dirty look this morning when petting her baby. I was petting the colt as she was feeding and she whipped around and threw them ears back. I took a step back and she was appeased.

Colt? I wonder if the wife would go for that as a name? He has a spot on forehead (an elipse actually) but "Spot" just wouldn't work as a name I think.

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 15:46:10 (ZULU)

I'm not a LEO, but I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. OK I was the OIC of a 13 man Reserve Police Unit a number of years ago so I have a "little" understanding of Police Officers and "the job". My wife was a Dispatcher/Jailer for a number of years and we to this day have many friends that are still "on the job". So where am I going with this. A couple of weeks ago I was stop by a State Officer for speeding, I was I freely admit it, anyway I was polite to him, showed him my CCW IMMEDIALTEY, ask where my weapon was, I told him, he asked to keep my hands on the steering wheel or where he could see them, "no problem Sir". When he came back with his clipboard asked me where I was going. Told him to a doctors appointment at the nearby Air Force Base, that I was reitred military. Oh do you have your ID card? Certainly showed it to him. He IMMDEIATELY THANKED ME for my service! I thanked him for HIS! Asked what I did for a living told him I was a ER Nurse. He then said something I didn't expect. He said OH you got out of the military and now are doing something REALLY DANGEROUS! I'd thought of that before but had never had someone else express that to me! The more I think about it the more I realize he is right! I deal with basiclly the same "public" a LEO does but TOTALLY un-armed! I even think about having a "normal" weapon and get caught my job is history!

As to friends outside the "community". Ever notice, and every LEO, Firefighter, Paramedic, ER RN etc that reads this KNOWS this to be true. Notice how "we" the "Public Service" community hang around together! We all have something in common, dealing with the public at their WORST! They are hurt, sick, injured or just having a bad day and they call or come to see US! They are at their worst and we TRY to help to the best of our abilities but most of the time it just isn't good enough. They have no clue that they are the LAST of a line of peolpe that have come to us that are sicker/more injured and "we can't see you right now" and just made there day even WORSE!

This may be a bit rambling but I guranttee that every one of you in the "Public Service Community", that I have talked about, know what I mean!

OK the longest post I've made in I don't know when is over.

Think about it KNOW you've been here, done this, have the T-shirts to prove it, and don't want any more!

PS I got a warning from the NMSP officer!

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 15:54:23 (ZULU)

Distinguished British biologist J.B.S. Haldane was asked by a journalist what, if anything, he had learned about God in his long career studying nature. Haldane replied that he must be very fond of beetles, because he had made so many different kinds.

I think the same thing of stupid people - and I try to give them a break, because being stupid is not a moral failing. Stupid people can't help being stupid.

But sometimes it's hard. And it's especially hard dealing with more intelligent people who for some reason think that the laws of man, and sometimes the laws of physics, just don't apply to them.

They're not going to go away, those folks. Trying to avoid them is burdensome. I'm pleased not to be a LE officer, because those folks spend a lot of their working lives in contact with them, for which they have my eternal gratitude - and my sympathy.

And I take particular care when teaching LE officers to shoot, because, if they have to shoot, I want them to shoot well, so that they can go home to their families.

Bless them all.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 18:20:39 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve, My old college room mate became a cop in a mid western state about the time I moved to the mountains in the late '60s..He would call, and I'd ask what was up? His reply was often "I just need to talk to someone normal".. After a short stint with WV's Dept of Human Services in the ealy '70s(welfare back then), and dealing with the same assholes local LE did on a daily basis, it didn't take me long to get a bit jaded about society in general. It's amazing what people will do. It's like every day has to be a soap opera! Back then gettng a carry permit was almost impossible here. Went out one night to pick up some kids on a court order(this very nice family was hard to find during daylight hours, you know that drill) accompanied(sp?) by a State Trooper and another social worker. While approaching the "home" the Trooper asked me if I had a gun(patently illegal). I thought a minute and, since I knew the guy pretty well, told him I had a LW Commander. His only comment was "good deal". Luckily, I didn't have to make a career of state employment, although my wife is teaching the fourth generation of some of the families I worked with in the early '70s. The cycle of government supported assholery seems almost impossible to stop.

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 18:29:40 (ZULU)

And Now For Something Completely diffrent.

Chuck, Contact me at work. I'm gunna join the range in Jourdanton again. Even if I shoot there only 4 times a year it's worth it. Since Bill Hurly died and Charlie Weatherby moved to Boerne I didn't know who to contact. But I have the info again.

Gunna be fun to shoot again. It's a 500 yard pvt range. I just can even bring my self to dirty a stick shooting at only one or two hundred yards.

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 18:38:23 (ZULU)

So where is a good cop when I need him?

Seriously, I've been helping out a kiddo (21, leaving college), he's a good guy with good morals and values - his head is on straight. He's just about decided that a career in LE is the thing to do... no argument here so far. What I thought I'd do is ask for a volunteer to explain to him what the career is really like on a day-by-day basis. I'm assuming -having never been a cop- that it's like a lot of careers where it's only AFTER you start that you find out about all the rest of what is entailed.

If one of you active / retired cops wouldn't mind talking with this guy, I'd really appreciate it. I'm not wanting to talk him out of anything, just make it so that he has realistic expectations of what's involved.

Patrons 'Lito and Mike, you'se gots e-mail. Mike, I wasn't sure which one was the best, so I sent it to the AOL one. Looking forward to taking the kiddo out to a Appleseed shoot.

After reading all this stuff on Steve, I'm looking forward to having some fun. Since my profession is 'ranked' somewhat like the military too, I'm gonna say "I'm about to start a reaction with these chemicals - you civilians don't try this" HA! DOUBLE HA! Now that's funny, I don't care who you are!

Bravo
Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 19:28:49 (ZULU)

Bravo, And bless all the starving pigmies in New Guinea (SP).. HA

I could talk to your son him some time. Damn you sent me a picture of you two once. He was just a lad at the time. Time sure flies.

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 20:18:24 (ZULU)

"The cycle of government supported assholery seems almost impossible to stop"

Hey Markwell...how do you want your royalty payments...cause I'm gonna get some mileage from this one!!!!!

Just poking my head in for a sec.....sounds like youse guys got things right where they should be.

WY6's...Later--Rich

Rich Johnson
Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 23:13:15 (ZULU)

Stupid People...

NJ was hit with around 10 inches of rain last weekend. Whole new streams showed up, some travelling right into folks homes.

We had been running for about ten hours straight when we got to this home in the 'rich' section of town. The homeowner had maybe a 1000 gallon per minute flow building in his backyard, cascading over his custom 'rock-scape' like Niagra Falls. We started with four gas pumps, a mini-track-hoe and sandbags...while the second crew pulled his entertainment system out of the basement which was just starting to flood...The home was nice, maybe 2-2.5 Million.

The homeowner is wearing an all white, fancy sweatsuit...smoking a big fat cigar while cursing to someone on the phone. He shuts the phone and makes a comment about "speed it up" to the one female member of our crew...everyone stopped.

The Chief strolled over and suggested he 'lend a hand' or remain silent....to which a response in the wrong tone was uttered. The one cop on scene became 'uneasy' with his next potential role.

The Chief was on the radio in seconds... and we were completely picked up and gone in five minutes.

The last words said were "they're all volunteers and you are entitled to nothing, you stupid f%ck"

I think maybe we'll make him Chief again next year.

medicjim
Friday, April 20, 2007, at 02:15:46 (ZULU)

Medicjim:

I'm surprised it took you five minutes to get packed up :-)

The "man in white" certainly got what he deserved.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, April 20, 2007, at 02:32:19 (ZULU)

The trackhoe got entangled in his pool cover.

Click my name for some photos from the next town over that was hit a bit worse...

second photo link with fires

http://www.c-n.com/apps/pbcs.dll/tngallery?Site=B1&Date=20070416&Category=PIX03&ArtNo=704160801&Ref=PH&Params=Start=25

medicjim
Friday, April 20, 2007, at 02:34:21 (ZULU)

One of my guys got shot today.

Two skinheads robbed a store in the next town over. Fled. Wrecker drivers spotted 'em and jumped 'em up. Blue suits got after them and cornered them up in a canal.

Full of weeds and cat tails (bayou country down here). Chopper hovering about ten feet above where they were last seen.

One cop and one State trooper on that side of the canal with others spread out down the way.

SWAT (2 teams with shotguns, subguns and ARs) were just about to make a sweep from the opposite side of the canal (my side). Neck deep water/waist deep muddish quicksand stuff (two cops got stuck up to their necks).

Chopper rotor wash exposed BGs and FLIR signature gave 'em up.

Hidden down in the mud like crawfish. Not 30 feet from us.

The one officer on that side of the canal could not locate them with the vegetation blowing about and leaned out just a little to see where they were.

Pow. 9mm through and through in the upper thigh. He goes down ... SHIT!

Both he and the trooper were right in 25 cops line of fire.

Big time crossfire. 25 long guns couldn't shoot. DAMMIT !

Helpless feeling shit dudes I am here to tell ya ...

Cop's good. Released this pm. Was at the station laughing about it.

BGs busted.

SWAT callout and riot earlier this week.

Been toting a shotgun lately. Getting good mileage out of it.

New tactical buckshot is awesome stuff.

... There but for the grace of God go I. Yee ha !!!! ....

bk OUT

brian k. sain
Friday, April 20, 2007, at 03:31:38 (ZULU)

BKS... not good.

If they will shoot at cops, they need to die. Some day, "we the people" will figure out that folks that shoot cops cannot be allowed in society, not even twenty years later.

I'm glad to hear your guy is not too badly hurt.

medicjim
Friday, April 20, 2007, at 04:34:01 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve,

Thanks for the link, some good info. Especially the part about where one can carry.

"...or within 1,000 feet of the premises of

an execution on the day of execution."

Gotta love Texas! Stay safe.

Steve Racer
somewhere in Dillsburg, PA, - Friday, April 20, 2007, at 06:38:39 (ZULU)

BK,

Glad the guy is in good spirits. I don't know if an extra hole in me would have me cracking jokes. Oh do you shoot at Bayou? thinking of driving out that direction for a match or two this summer.

There is a new POLL on www.MSN.com

We are at 51% pro more gun rights.

Speed Racer, That's cause when killin needs done we want to make sure it's done right. Plus if some one off's the guy think of all the freakin wasted time setting every thing up. You got to get him they day before so cancelations can be done. HA..

Pat, those were good pics. Ijuts driving in 4 feet of water and thier cars die. Huh imagine that.

Dirty Steve...........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Friday, April 20, 2007, at 06:49:59 (ZULU)

Rich....Royalties payable in 45ACP hardball; preferably by the case.

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Friday, April 20, 2007, at 12:21:31 (ZULU)

Gents,

BKS, Glad your man is OK and the skinheads are in custody. A happy outcome except for the extra hole in your man's thigh. At least he can laugh about it and he'll have story to tell new guys when he's an old guy...

Civilians: My take was the same as some others on the forum. While in the Military I rankled at the LE types that called non-LE folks "civilians". In my mind there was no difference and if you were not military you WERE a civilian. I retired in '94 and have been working in Corrections for the past five years. That has changed my perspective, a bit, to say the least. You can argue Webster, semantics, or whatever, but what I have come to understand is that there is little difference between military and LE types. Both signed on to do a dirty dangerous job and believe that what they do makes a difference. Dave Grosman's "Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs" my be the best example/explanation of this phenominum.

What I see is that our social structure is failing and the Military/LE types are trying to keep the lid on...while government leaders and the "civilians" try to tie their hands. This lack of support comes in many forms...political correctness, community hostility and lack of support for actions taken, and the fact that elected leaders are turning our nation into a third world cesspool.

The people I see every day are truely evil. Whether they are a gang-bangers, Rapists, Child Molesters, or whatever, they SHOULD NEVER be allowed back into society, IMHO. What I can tell you is that trash comes in all colors, sizes, and shapes. It may be skinheaded, tattooed, cross racial barriers, or speak a different language, and come from a different culture. The commonality is that it is EVIL and it doesn't care about anything but itself and it's own gratification. It exhists because we allow it to exhist. The old saying that "all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" is deadly accurate.

Police see the problem, politician's ignore it, and corrections folks see the end result and the proof of societal breakdown. It's sad when I have to refer to Corrections as a "growth industry".

It's funny that some civilians see the "protect and serve" image as meaning we should do what they want, ie. to "serve". The case of the rich bastard with the cigar is a case in point. That chief did the right thing and sent a clear message to the asshole. Hope they went to help folks that truely needed it. The same thing is evident in many of our elected officials. You don't have to look far to find stories and evidence of how the Clinton's treated their Secret Service details. These are the men that are sworn to protect them. Just once it would be nice to see them walk away and tell 'Hillary "good luck, your on your own". A reality check is needed. Of course they are professionals and would never do that. Which puts them head and shoulders about those they protect in many cases.

Dirty Steve, medicjim, and all. We do need to have friends and interests outside of our work environment. In my field the average life expectancy for an officer after retirement is 3 years. Which is one reason I don't hang out with the troops and my friends are, for the most part, not related to what I do in way, shape, or form. Hope to beat that 3 year average by a HUGE margin...;-)

Hey, I don't drink, smoke, and have a moderate interest in the opposite sex...stats are on my side! Of course sainthood is not going to be an option either...

Spent Wednesday training some folks in the use of the Beretta 92. I'm not a fan, mind you. The Marines experience with the M-9 has been anything but positive. What I saw merely cemented those feelings. Several of the almost new commercially produced 92's failed to feed. Not the classic stoppage, but lacked the power to strip a round from the magazine and chamber it. The guns were clean, but a bit dry. Lubing them worked, but they should have worked dry, IMHO.

An e-mail from a fellow instructor about the matter was interesting. He'd been part of the service trials when Beretta went head to head with SIG. He indicated that the staff favored the SIG by about a 5:1 margin. Beretta won on a slim price point and the fact that they agreed to build a plant in the US. The Marines refused to accept any more Beretta's partway through the transition from the 1911. To this day what you get is the luck of the draw. If you like the Beretta fine, but I won't carry one unless I change out every spring in them for high grade Wolff springs. That includes magazine springs as the Marine' magazines in DS/DS failed due to spring failure (lowest bidder). Problem was not corrected for Iraqi Freedom, either. Bastards...

All for now...today is my Monday and duty calls.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Friday, April 20, 2007, at 18:03:18 (ZULU)

Just checking in and I figured as much after the bad week. Its the cops fault? Love the experts who never been shot tell what they would do if shot with little 9mm. Let me tell you it freakin hurts and better than 99 percent of folks dont attack when hurt they try and get away from it. You wont know your reaction until hit. I know been there, got hurt and attacked. Been there saw good men hurt and turn from thing that hurt them. Its basically an old brain response and only actual incident will tell you how you react. Me being firts generation in family to walk up right I act like wild animal when attacked.

You want to know why we have crazy people that walk around and then go crazier and kill folks? Its called a lack of money.

This case in VT. Lets see he was crazy eveyone knew it but he was allowed to walk around. Why? because no one has room to keep folks day in and day out who have not already did some real serious violent act. Many are like this guy and some of them will go off. Some wont. Bottom line is there are only places for people who have committed violent acts. Why no room? Simple no money for them. The tax payers of this country have voted in folks who use tax monies for other things and wont approve further monies to house folks not already proven to hurt folks.

Now in this case cops had this guy before for crazy/5150 WI, but they allowed him to slef commit. Why? simple. Money. You see a self commit will have to pay for his hospital stay, or his family will. A self commit can not sue officer or department for forced commit of 5150WI, so agency and system saves money. Problem is self comit does not go into a no gun record so nutt can purchase later on. Also self commit can walk out when they want. Why is this allowed. Money

Now before anyone is back on high horse look around your city and see all the homeless. You want to pay to house all of them times about ten to twnety times? If so we can probably keep this from happening again. If not "Gentelmen prepare to defend yourselves" as it will happen again (Line from We where Soldiers)

This attack of cops or others is just plain to make ourselves feel better. I am no longer a cop but 25 yeares before retiring gave me a little experience in dealing with crazies

Undude/Mike

MikeMiller
Ca, - Friday, April 20, 2007, at 18:21:39 (ZULU)

Mike M: "Love the experts who never been shot tell what they would do if shot with little 9mm."

I love you too Mike.

What I'd do in that emergency is what the men in my family always do in emergencies. We do the obvious and we don't waste a bunch of time doing it.

CDC'
Saturday, April 21, 2007, at 00:40:04 (ZULU)

Holster question;

I need to get a nice fitting inside the waistband holster for a S&W Model 640. This is the snub-nose with concealed hammer. What I'm looking for is something that will work well when wearing jeans and shirt. Who makes a good holster for this purpose?

LATER Y'ALL

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Saturday, April 21, 2007, at 00:52:49 (ZULU)

Jody,

You might try www.miltsparks.com. I have one of their Summer Special 2 IWB holsters that I use with a Kimber and it's great.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The springtime Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, April 21, 2007, at 03:06:57 (ZULU)

Jody, try milt sparks. http://www.miltsparks.com/ They have been around for years and make nice stuff. You order you a 12 F/TR yet?

Dirty Steve.......

dirty steve
Saturday, April 21, 2007, at 03:07:10 (ZULU)

Ken Null does good work too. Ain't cheap, but as their motto says: Unseen in the best places.

WR Moore
Saturday, April 21, 2007, at 03:39:52 (ZULU)

6.5x47 Lapua Country -

A while back I mentioned that I was undertaking a new build featuring the relatively new 6.5x47 Lapua cartridge and a few of you asked that I keep you informed of my progress.

The donor rifle is a Savage FP10LE2B, which is one of their tactical versions with a 26" barrel in .308, their Accu-Trigger set at just under 2 lbs. pull weight, and a McMillan A3 stock.

JR at Border Barrels, I assume that most of you know this guy ;), just sent me one of his cut-rifled barrels chambered for this cartridge and is it ever a work of art. It's kind of a new project for Border barrels, as this new barrel is a contoured, chambered and threaded drop-in for the Savage bolt actions. Just the ticket for a diehard tinkerer like me.

The barrel specs are - Stainless, 8.5" twist, Obermeyer 5R rifiling, custom contour 1.055" at breach with a straight taper to .875" at a finished length of 28" with an 11* target crown. I can't begin to tell you how great this barrel looks under very close inspection. Thank you JR!

Anyway, I pulled the .308 barrel and installed the new Border barrel, set the headspace using a GO - NO GO gage set from Dave Kiff at PT&G. The barrel swap took less than 30 min. I set the barreled action into the McM A3 stock and epoxy bedded the action and barrel nut area using Pro-Bed 2000. By tomorrow it will have been curing for about 48 hrs. so it'll be time to install a Near Mfg. 10MOA Picatinny base and mount my Ackerman boosted Mk4 M1 10x (now 16x) scope using a brand new set of Badger .835" rings that I've had waiting around for this project to begin.

I'll begin load development and chronographing just as soon as this nasty weather front moves out of here and report back with the results. Stay tuned .....

ALAN
Saturday, April 21, 2007, at 05:16:35 (ZULU)

Damn, everyone else must be out shooting. Am I the only one that consistently gets sick enough to go to the doctor on Friday evenings, after the Doctor's office is closed?

Was wondering if any of you have experience with employment law/workers rights. I WAS working for an asbestos abatement company, but their containment was a joke! Safety was , too. Working in a wet environment, no ladders to get up wet scaffolding. When I told the guy from the Ks. Dept. of Health and environment I was quitting, he said he didn't blame me. It was that bad. Who's ear do I need to twist to shut these jerks down?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, April 21, 2007, at 19:25:10 (ZULU)

Travis:

I'm not very familiar with the US regs, but OSHA comes to mind. They tend to be more involved with enviromental stuff as opposed to mechanical hazards issues. It's a big stick if they get involved, so be sure you don't want to cross that bridge again before you light it up.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, April 21, 2007, at 21:03:47 (ZULU)

Jody, personal favorite is the Texas Heritage from Tucker Leather. They are a little pricey but the quality can't be beat! Comfortable from day one. Have 2 one for a G36 and another for XD 45, which also fits my XD 9 but a little loose.

Just some plain fine leather!

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Saturday, April 21, 2007, at 21:31:19 (ZULU)

Food for thought : http://leveron.com/john/rights/ (posters and links describing a cure) or click my name below

[OK, enough typing, back out to the range!]

John
Mid-MO, USA - Saturday, April 21, 2007, at 22:24:43 (ZULU)

Travis,

I would thinik OSHA or the EPA , possibly both, would deal with asbetos issues. OSHA with your safety. EPA to be a pain in your employers butt. Check your States government website for help also.

Don't worry about not getting to the range. You may pull some dumb stunt like I did today. I drove 60 miles one way to the range and forgot ear plugs. They were still in my old range bag. It was 10 miles to Wally Werld so I shot as best I could with napkins from Sonic in my ears.

I hadn't shot my GA rifle in a year. Glad to see my dope was still spot on. 500 yards gave me fits with wind. It was gusty with only short pauseing between gusts.

I did get to play with the Savage 223. It shot well at 500. The wind wasnt as bad when I was playing with it.

Dirty Steve.......

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Saturday, April 21, 2007, at 22:48:47 (ZULU)

ALAN,

This may be a dumb question, but when mounting a barrel, do you use some type of thread-locker? If this is obvious to everyone else, we can take it offline.

Thx, Duman.

PS - Dirty Steve - I've been in a similar situation. I finally bought a bag of 100 pairs of plugs, and scattered them everywhere. Car, truck, bags, fanny packs, backpacks, toolboxes, shaving kit....

Duman
Saturday, April 21, 2007, at 23:19:21 (ZULU)

Alan,

After the wife and kid finally went to a match with me, and couldn't figure for themselves to bring hearing protection, I just bought extra, and keep it in the wife's glovebox. My wife asked me why I didn't pack it. I said, "WHAT part of 'we're going to a shooting match did you not get?'" (this was the day after I spent $400 on Rx shooting glasses)

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, April 22, 2007, at 00:13:45 (ZULU)

Travis: Rather than dragging the government in to bully your employer, why don't you just look the guy in the eye and talk to him man to man?

CDC'
Sunday, April 22, 2007, at 01:33:27 (ZULU)

Duman -

No thread locking stuff on barrel threads. That's probably the last thing you'd want to use. What you want is some type of lubricant to keep the threads from galling and also to ease disassembly when the time comes. Important when installing a barrel into an action made of a similar metal. Rule of thumb - dissimilar metals don't tend to gall when screwed together like similar metals do.

A rather divese assortment of lubricants will work on barrel to action threads including bearing grease (synthetic is best), moly, dedicated "barrel assembly paste" as sold by outfits like Brownells, and my favorite - nickel based anti seize compound from the local hardware store.

ALAN
Sunday, April 22, 2007, at 01:57:25 (ZULU)

CDC,

I'm not sure but from Travis posted. "When I told the guy from the Ks. Dept. of Health and environment I was quitting, he said he didn't blame me." Sounds to me like the conditions are so bad he(the boss or owner) could not help but realize the working conditions are horrible. When you get a greedy person running some place be it big or small he won't care who he hursts till he is made to care. Enron was a prime example of some one not caring who he or they hurt to put money in thier own pocket. Just my 2 cents worth. I could be wrong it happens.

Dirty Steve........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Sunday, April 22, 2007, at 03:19:27 (ZULU)

In case of emergency break glass?

http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?id=35789&siteSection=1

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, April 22, 2007, at 03:26:55 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve: I was an industrial and public works abrasive and industrial coatings contractor in California.

Representatives of the _ _ _ (insert three letters at random) could have come in and crippled my ass at any time, day or night. Let me give you an example just one of my innumerable infractions.

One agency has a whole long list of verbotten materials for which unauthorized transport, storage and container disposal is fined at the rates of - if I remember correctly - $20,000, $10,000 per day and $100,000 plus possible jail time. Failure to keep proper records was another $100,000 or so. That's ANY quantity and it's PER INGREDIENT.

On the list I recognized 1-1-1 trichloroethane. I figured the half empty bottle of whiteout on my desk represented a liability of well over a million bucks.

That was one page of rules from one agency. There are lots and lots of agencies with lots and lots and lots of pages of rules with lots and lots of career coffee drinkers to enforce them arbitrarily and capriciously.

One of those guys doesn't like the company Travis works for? Very few of those guys like any company anybody works for. The "Private Enterprise as Enemy" attitude seems to come with the the crackerjack degree.

CDC'
Sunday, April 22, 2007, at 05:54:26 (ZULU)

Well, with the earth spinning and all, the boys all qualed back to 800 Friday. With that out of the way we can now train hard on unk distance rapid aquisition and other important issues. Yesterday we shot the entire course with 500 dope. Went great for the first time.

I am just happy the guns are hanging in there. Gonna try 9 and the grand for fam this week.

__________________

Semper Fi

Finger

Jim Reifinger
Pearsall, TX, USA - Sunday, April 22, 2007, at 15:20:06 (ZULU)

Travis,

For the last 5 years my job has been to deal with OSHA on a daily basis. As an employee, ex-employee or just a concerned citizen, you can call your local OSHA office and make a complaint about safety issues on any jobsite. This can be done anonamously. For more info go to osha.gov.

It is a violation of CFR 1926 subpart L to use a scaffold without a ladder.Also the scaffold must be inspected daily , before work starts.

The scaffolr regulations goes on for several pages. The asbestos reg goes on for chapters.

Call OSHA and make a complaint. It is the right thing to do. These companies continue their sloppy ways until someone calls or a worker gets killed. Usually the worker that gets killed is a young guy just starting out and he can't get a job anywhere else.

Thanks for listening.

Stan Caniglia
Hudson, oh, - Sunday, April 22, 2007, at 15:35:36 (ZULU)

Mike, Darren-

I'm not going to make the F-class shoot in San Jose we talked about earlier. I'm driving down to Palmdale for a tactical match on Saturday and hoping to fish for salmon on Sunday. I think there is still one spot open for that match if either of you are interested.

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area , CA, - Sunday, April 22, 2007, at 17:22:40 (ZULU)

'lito,

I seem to remember a discussion a couple months back about a

chronograph that had the 35P beat hands down. My memory tells me you

had one and liked it. Can you remind me of the maker? Thanks.

Mark

Mark Taylor
WV, USA - Sunday, April 22, 2007, at 17:52:27 (ZULU)

Jim, did you use the new PDA program from CheyTac to correct for the coriolis effect?

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, April 22, 2007, at 19:58:22 (ZULU)

Travis,

In Wisconsin, besides OSHA the DNR has inspectors that do regular inspections of contractors. It's possible your DNR does the same, and if I remember right the guy in-charge here in Wisconsin came from Kansas.

JLU

Joe Udelhofen
Oconomowoc, WI, USA - Sunday, April 22, 2007, at 22:37:51 (ZULU)

Canadian ground troops in A'stan (photo gallery):

http://www.hfxnews.ca/index.cfm?main=gallery&cid=428

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 00:04:04 (ZULU)

Ok, anyone feel free: I need some advice on a spotting scope. I was perfectly happy with my 25X 50mm Lupy until it got "disappeared". So, I'm looking to replace it with something similar....size/weight wise. I'm not saying what price but if there's a good "quality/price" scope out there, say it out!

A bit bigger might be OK...but portability is prime, as would be waterproofing and "ding-resistant" finish (i.e. rubber armored). I have a bench scope already.

I'm betting 'lito has an opinion?

Thanks!

SteveinButte
Butte, MT, USofA - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 01:11:44 (ZULU)

SteveinButte: I'll give you a deal on a loopy just like the one that disappeared.

CDC'
Monday, April 23, 2007, at 01:47:24 (ZULU)

There was a B-17 at a local airport, providing rides for a fee. I was ~2-miles away, when this beast lifted off. It was spectacular. This thing was huge, even from that distance. I can't imagine what the Germans thought, with thousands of these filling the sky, dropping ordnance.

Duman
Monday, April 23, 2007, at 01:48:12 (ZULU)

CDC,

Just because I knew YOU would be displeased if I didn't, I DID talk to the employer beforehand. He's a total piece of mierde, and there's NO WAY he would not have known these conditions existed. Their containment was a TOTAL joke.

For example: Coming out of the contained area, you must have: An equipment room, seperated from containment area with flappy kinda doors like they have in a butcher shop cooler. Then, you must have a shower room, so employees aren't spreading asbestos all over town, their car, home, and family. This MUST have hot and cold running water. It also needs to have another flappy door. Then, you need to have a clean room. They had NONE of this. They cut a fucking hole in the vizqueen for an exit! (Next to the largest intersection In Wichita!)

As for the load out, area; they opened about an 8'X8' area of the containmet, facing the street. You drive by, you're looking DIRECTLY INTO THE CONTAINMENT.

So, as you can see, CDC, you most definitely ASSumed too much.

BTW, guys, picked up a Winchester 1897 "E" takedown model for $150

today. Sure took the sting out of selling my mini!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 02:03:58 (ZULU)

Travis,

I don't know anything about you or your situation. I've been in the trades most of my life and I've been a superintendent for the last 12 or so. Maybe my view is distorted because I'm management but there comes a time when you, as a man, have to decide if a particular job is what you want. I hate to see guys who piss and moan all the time about how hard life is or what a dick the boss is when all they have to do is go find some other place to work. I never felt a need to try to backdoor fuck an employer for hurting my feelings or cheating me at bonus time. If I didn't like him or the company I'd tell him or discuss it IN FRONT OF HIM with his boss. Can't stand that behind the back or behind closed doors shit. Then if that didn't work I'd just leave. Period. You won't feel any true sense of vindication by taking a potshot from behind the protection of an anonymous phone call, which by the way, will probably be figured out by your employer anyway. That could ruin your name in the business too.

Just think about it and come back here talking about guns not work ;)

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area , CA, - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 02:30:28 (ZULU)

CDC: Email inbound off the roster on the Leupy spotter deal?

Thanks!

SteveinButte
Butte, MT, USA - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 03:07:56 (ZULU)

It may be time to lay in a supply of the mags of your choice.

Marc: Center hit.

CDC'
Monday, April 23, 2007, at 03:48:06 (ZULU)

Had a tough choice to make today. Shoot, or do chores. Well, since I hit 50, I've had this really ugly malady come upon me that periodically makes me do the right thing. So.....it worked out ok, though,as I HATE cedar. I've been killing it left and right, ripping through it like a sailor in a whorehouse on his first shore leave. One problem with it, if you cut it down, ya gotta do something with it, so I spent hours burning it today. Good day for it, cloudy, misty, and with all the rain we've had, everything excepth the cedar was soaked. Helpful hint #137....if you shave yer head, and yer gonna burn cedar, WEAR A HAT! People are gonna wonder how you get cigarett burns on the top of your head....

Spoke to the other half today, actually had lunch with her. I think that she's getting a sneaky suspicion that she f**ked up.

Has anyone had any timing problems with AR10 shorties? I went from a collapsible stock to the A2 type, as I have no use for s stock that is occasionally to short to use. And almost immediately started getting extraction problems. Proper spring, proper buffer, ammo worked before. Brass punches right out, practically falls out after you clear it, but the case rims show definite shearing from the extractor. Classic timing problems. I don't want to go back to the coll. stock, anyone have any luck adding weight to the buffer to slow down the inital bolt carrier movement?

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 04:18:45 (ZULU)

Marc,

I'm not trying to fuck anybody. I'm trying to keep people from being hurt!

Being management, as usual, you miss the HUGE ASS POINT! This is about SAFETY! I know foremen and supers give orientation talks about safety, then forget it as soon as they walk out of the room, but these jerks are messing with people's LIVES! Friable asbestos is NOT something to play with!

I've been upfront and honest about all this shit, and it's a small enough job that there's NO WAY the foreman and the owners of the company would be unaware of this stuff.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 04:20:24 (ZULU)

Guys,

Have any of you converted a Winchester 94 in .44 mag to .45 colt? I was wondering if I'd be able to do it with just a barrel swap, since I've found the .44 locally pretty cheap.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 04:27:32 (ZULU)

Charles S. Hunt -

This might sound like a dumb question, but have you thoroughly cleaned the chamber? As you're probably aware the fired case momentarily sticking to the walls of the chamber during extraction can cause the problem that you describe. That's the easiest thing to check, and it's free ;)

If it's actually a timing problem, and AR10's have been known to have them, the best cure is to install a SSS (David Tubb) carrier weight system. This is a drop-in set of weights that install inside the bolt carrier. You choose the correct weight by a trial-and-error method, increasing the weight until the bolt stays locked long enough to eliminate the violent extraction. This system really works and also reduces the AR10 tendency to break bolt stops.

Check it out at www.SuperiorShootingSystems.com

ALAN
Monday, April 23, 2007, at 06:09:06 (ZULU)

Bipod technique question-

I just started shooting my across the course bolt gun in tactical matches with a scope and using a bipod. I'm very happy with it so far since I just won my first 1K match at Sacramento this month by a wide margin (easy wind on first relay). Even with that great score I did have some problems that first appeared in practice earlier. I occasionally get some flyers out to 11:00 and they vary from just noticeable to just over a minute out from center. This happens about 2 or 3 out of 10 shots. This never happens when I shoot this rifle off of my pack or from a pedestal rest where it's consistently sub-half moa. It never happened to me with my SCLE rifle either. It's gotta be something I'm doing. Whaddya think?

I'd be grateful if some of you knowledgeable coaches like Rick, Jim, Mike and Lindy could do a run down of the physical elements of bipod prone for me. How your body aligns, where you do and do not feel muscle tension etc. I'd like to hear all of the details your willing to type out for me.

Saw a news headline today "VT Gunman bought clips from E-Bay!". Ya. Here it comes.

Thanks Guys,

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 06:56:14 (ZULU)

Click my name.

Guys,

I saw that news story about where he got his mags., too. I suppose, NOW, they'll tell us where he got his tactical tighty-whities.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 07:48:19 (ZULU)

Shamelessly cribbed from hotair.com:

"Our lawmakers have felt the bruising of pro second amendment supporters before and will again if this lunacy goes too far.

"Those poor kids at VTech were like chickens put up for the night in the coop, confined and completely defenseless when the Weasel came to kill them.

"From Patriot Post:

“Virginia Tech has a very sound policy”

"In 2002, at the Appalachian School of Law just up the road from Virginia Tech, a Nigerian student, who had flunked out, returned to campus, murdered three people and wounded three others. Fortunately, his killing spree was interrupted by two students who had retrieved handguns from their vehicles and held the murderer at gunpoint until police arrived.

"This intervention was not unprecedented.

"In 1997, an assistant principal in Pearl, Mississippi, retrieved a handgun from his car and apprehended a murderer. A few days later, a copycat assault in Edinboro, Pennsylvania, ended after a nearby merchant wielding a shotgun forced the attacker to surrender. Off campus, it is estimated conservatively that gun owners use their weapons defensively more than 1.3 million times each year.

"With that as a backdrop, last spring Virginia Tech admonished a student for having a handgun on campus—never mind that the student had a state-issued concealed-carry permit.

"That admonishment was a motivating factor behind a proposed bill before the Virginia legislature to prevent academic institutions from enacting “rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed-handgun permit… from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun.”

"The legislation died in committee, prompting Tech’s associate vice president, Larry Hincker, to praise the General Assembly in a Roanoke (Virginia) Times op-ed: “I’m sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly’s actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus. We believe guns don’t belong in the classroom. In an academic environment, we believe you should be free from fear.” Yea, that worked great.

"A month later, there was a murder near Tech’s campus, prompting a lockdown.

"In response, Tech grad student Bradford Wiles penned an op-ed in the campus paper calling on the school to allow those with concealed-carry permits to carry guns on campus should they choose.

"Larry Hincker emerged again, protesting, “[I]t is absolutely mind-boggling to see the opinions of Bradford Wiles. Surely, [the editors] scratched their heads saying, ‘I can’t believe he really wants to say that.’ Guns don’t belong in classrooms. They never will. Virginia Tech has a very sound policy preventing same.”

Congratulations Mr. Hinkler. Your “sound policy” created a “safe campus” for only one student—Cho Seung-Hui—who was able to slaughter 32 people without interruption. "

CDC'
Monday, April 23, 2007, at 09:45:09 (ZULU)

CDC,

Good post. For someone I so often wanna choke, I think I agree with you more often than not. Did you check out the death clock? We apparently need more laws about issuing driver's licenses, and restricting the use and purchase of vehicles.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., 67217 - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 10:05:53 (ZULU)

When shooting off a bipod, I get straight behind the rifle. That reduces the tendency of the barrel to wander during recoil, and also provides a consistent position. The military used to teach prone shooting with your body at an angle. However, unless your angle is consistent from shot to shot, you'll have problems. The heavier the recoil, the more problems - try shooting a Barrett M82 with your body angled, and you'll have trouble hitting the target on the first shot, much less on subsequent ones.

If shooting off the ground, I also dig the bipod feet in a bit, and put some forward tension on the bipod legs by moving my entire body a bit forward while keeping my alignment straight behind the rifle.

Contemporary wisdom is that horizontal shot dispersion is the result of either a bad natural point of aim, or bad trigger control. Vertical shot dispersion is the result of bad breath control. Angled shot dispersion is caused by both. Try to break each shot at the natural pause when you have finished exhaling. That will collapse your rib cage as far as it's going, in a consistent manner.

Make sure you're not "dragging wood", i.e., that your trigger finger is not rubbing on the stock, and press the trigger straight to the rear using the pad of your finger midway between the tip and the joint.

In shorter terms, apply the fundamentals of marksmanship as consistently as you can.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 11:44:17 (ZULU)

Alan, thanks for the tip. Yeah, the chamber's clean, cleaner'n a Somali dinner plate. I find the idea of adding anything to the bolt carrier a bit unsettling....any possibility of something coming loose in the upper housing group is not something I'd like to entertain. I added a few grains to the weights inside the recoil buffer, instead. I haven't had time to test it since, but I'm thinking that if I can slow down the rearward motion of the carrier by just a millisecond or so, the chamber pressure will drop enough to allow easy extraction. Or, maybe a powder with a faster pressure peak....like AA2230? I'm using Varget, 'cuz I want to stick with one powder and bullet, life's complicated enuff already.

Anyone pick up on Cheryl Crowe's idea for dealing with global warming? Why do these idiots think they know anything about climatology, and why does anyone listen to these cretins? Sheesh....

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 16:40:00 (ZULU)

Charles S. Hunt -

The carrier weight system is good-to-go! Nothing will come loose :)

It is the most practical and efficient way of slowing down the bolt. The AMTU uses it. Perhaps Sinister will chime in if he's listening. I first heard about it from him several years ago.

Keep your Varget load. I use the same Varget/175SMK load in my AR10(T) that I've used in all of my .308 boltguns for years. It works perfectly.

Adding weight to the buffer will slow down bolt bounce, one of the ills of rapid firing, but I'm not so sure that it's practical to add enough weight to the buffer to delay the bolt carrier groups movement on initial extraction. But you might prove me wrong. It's not as if I haven't been wrong before :)

Please post your findings.

ALAN
Monday, April 23, 2007, at 17:34:47 (ZULU)

What a weekend for shooting!! We were up on the mountain doing some stuff for ASC in May and shot a fair amount Sat. and Sun.. Weather was in the 70s with light winds and sunshine. New S&B scope with computer generated mil. data is a very good deal. Don't know if the shot will be in the match, but we've now got another long one at 1k+20% and change. It is truly a pretty long poke.

outa here

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 19:34:39 (ZULU)

**********SNIPERQUEST**********

OK gang even though SQ07 isn't until September I've already heard back from sponsors such as Norm Chandler, Dillon,5.11, Pro-Shot, SWFA, Redding, CamelBak and a few others. The Sponsor page sould be up and going in a few days so keep watching it!

Sarge
Southern Area 51, NM, USA - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 19:43:17 (ZULU)

10 shot magazines???

How could that be - Sarah Bradey promised up that 10 round magazines were safe, and it was the 11 and larger magazines that killed people!!

They must have made a mistake!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 20:25:14 (ZULU)

Marc, on sundays match. Did I misunderstand you before? I thought it was sign up at door and plenty of room for all? If thats changed let me know. I will go middle of no where and shoot before driving down there to be turned away.

On bipod techniques Lindy covered it well except verticla stringing is also caused by ammo. You can have ammo that one holes at 100-300 ayrds and wille at your butt at 1000 yards. This is why chronograpgh is helpful. Get extreme spread under 10fps and you usually ahvea 1000 yard winner.

Undude/Mike

MikeMiller
Ca, - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 20:53:43 (ZULU)

What the Undude said...

Last year I was testing loads and the best group (.28"-ish) came from a load that had an ES of 110fps. At 200 yds it's good, but on a crow at 400-500 it'd be up and down all over the place.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 21:07:42 (ZULU)

Duman,

I just got home. Been out for five days this time. I saw that you apologized. No need. My post wasn't written as well as it should have been. My fault.

Dirty Steve,

I don't know for sure, but I am guessing that your "beat" is a bit tougher than mine. I recall many years ago while I was attending college, and representatives from Fort Worth TX came to recruit police officers from our school. They were offering nearly three times what the local police agencies were paying. They explained to us in fine detail that they have such a turn over in officers because of burnout. They said five years was a long time to stay at their department. We were also guaranteed to be involved in at least one gunfight during our first year. One of my buds took their offer. He lasted four years. His face has the scars to prove it, and he won his fights.

Mr. Moore,

Traffic Control can be the most frustrating duty available. Its difficult to remain calm, and not get mad at stupid people when they insist on being stupid.

Bravo,

See if there is an agency nearby that allows civilians...er, I mean "non-sworn" persons to do a ride-along with an officer during his shift. That might help the young man decide if LE is for him.

Travis,

There has always been the "us vs. them" attitude. Its not productive, but its there regardless. Its works both ways too. Some people just hate cops. Always have, always will. (Not that you, or anyone here is in that group) Our agency has a "Citizens Police Academy". Its a ten week program that allows enrollees to get a sample of what our officers are trained to do. They basically get three hours training one night a week in several main courses that police recruits are required to take. What it has done is create an educated citizenry that can explain to their friends, neighbors, etc. about what we do, and why we do it. Its been a big help in improving relations between "Us", and the folks we serve. The best police officers I have seen, or worked with are really good actors. They can change their character to fit any situation. Unless you know them personally, and see them off duty you have no idea who they are. They taught me that if you seperate your personal identity from your professional identity you won't stay mad all the time, and will tend to do the right thing at work, and at home. Seems to work.

Best regards,

Bill Bledsoe
Outback in , KY, USA - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 21:47:30 (ZULU)

CDC’, any reason in particular that picking up mags at this time might be smarter than any other time? (honest question, as it appears 1022 was stillborn).

Pat II, got your e-mail this morning, look for a reply soon ;-) Been a bit busy (understatement) lately.

Chuck, keep the good news coming!

Now how about the Lapdog? My Canook buddy gave me a Lapdog dummy round, and I started thinking hard. The ArmaLite AR30 in Lapdog supposedly comes in at 12 pounds sans optics. What’s the optimal barrel length for that round? Anyone with experience with the AR30? At half the weight and half the price of the AR50, I’m thinking it may need to be put ‘on the list’.

Alan, can I buy a vowel, and ask for the weight on the barrel JR sent you? Sounds like a nice taper, although I wonder if it’s too heavy for my application.

It seems Dirty Steve, Doc and I agree on holsters as well. No surprise there. And speaking of the Dirty One!

Steve, slight mix-up. The kiddo I’m helping out isn’t my son, my boy is still too young for anything too much. Hopefully my son will set a new standard for the family though, and do well on the rifleman course next month. That wouldn’t be odd for my family, but being formally accomplished that young would be a first. I’m trying to give him every ‘cheat’ I can: a top-flight stick from Geoff, good ammo, and hopefully one of Patron Mike’s slings (HA! That’s the POLITE way to prod Mike LOL!).

Thanks for the recommendation Bill, I'll pass that on!

As mentioned, there are slews of OSHA regs on asbestos. It’s about the only special section that I don’t have to worry about. As such, yes, asbestos can be nasty. Use some common sense though ‘cause OSHA won’t. If you have respiratory protection and proper decon, then the only other thing to concern yourself with would be keeping it contained (note, I’m talking about physical containment, not what OSHA determines is ‘containment’). Would that pass an OSHA inspection? No. I run my place to pass OSHA inspections, and do so regularly. They’re overboard on several issues (I go by ‘em, but they’re overboard – OSHA regs weren’t written by chemists, industrial hygienists, or medical doctors!) so USE COMMON SENSE. IMO, either OSHA or EPA can just about shut down any business they want to. Typically EPA has a vested interest as the majority of the state EPA funds normally come from fines. OSHA is a bit different, but state OSHA varies. Literally, if it’s a matter life or health, call OSHA. If it’s not a matter of life or health, but merely going by regs, let that dog lie, eh? BTW, when it’s in the building and being worked with, it’s in the OSHA ballpark. When it’s contained (defined as waste), sent off, and destroyed its EPA’s territory – except when its ‘in transport’ as it belongs to DOT then.

Bravo
Monday, April 23, 2007, at 22:25:21 (ZULU)

hay all

sory but i do not understand why dont you gun folks support

a visit to the family Doktor for the first gun permit ?

it may save lifes dont you think ?

p/s in israel it's a must for any gun application, for sivilans, end

police men as well.

avi

avi
haifa, israel, is - Monday, April 23, 2007, at 22:57:58 (ZULU)

Bravo -

Sorry, I never weighed the barrel. Never thought to! Besides, the only scale in my house is an old RCBS 5-0-5 :) The shipping tube listed 2.65kg so considering the weight of that and the packing I'd guess at about 5 lbs for the barrel. JR might be lurking and he could probably give you the exact weight. It's a perfect profile for a Savage build. And I thought it up all by myself ;) It fits the channel in the McMillan A3 with just enough clearance to provide a good free float yet it doesn't sit in there like a toothpick in a raingutter.

ALAN
Monday, April 23, 2007, at 23:12:21 (ZULU)

avi -

You think we should rely on a Doctor to decide whether or not we should be able to own a firearm. You must be joking!! Doctors already think that they're Gods, and that's bad enough. Also remember that Mengele was a Doctor.

Before making a comment like that a person really needs to read and understand our Bill of Rights and our Constitution, along with some US history. I'm not saying this in anger, but it appears that you just don't get it.

ALAN
Monday, April 23, 2007, at 23:18:46 (ZULU)

Thanks for that Lindy.

Mike- As I understand the Sunday F-class match in San Jose will be a walk on with room for all. The match I mentioned with only one slot left is on Saturday in southern CA near Palmdale (Saugus). It sounds like a field oriented and difficult shoot so I'm driving down for it with another competitor from Santa Cruz. I plan on going to other matches in So Cal and Nevada as much as possible this summer. Hopefully I can make a trip to Badlands or Rifles Only in the fall. I just can't get enough of rifle shooting these days.

The flyers out to 11:00 I mentioned happen at 100 yards also and stay within about one moa from center. My velocity spreads are really tight and this problem only happens when I'm on the bipod and only with this rifle. I'm sure I'm neglecting something in the fundamentals that I got away with when shooting my heavier SCLE rifle. Nightly dry firing while going through a long mental check list on each shot should help.

Thanks fellas,

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 00:12:56 (ZULU)

Anyone,

Can you recommend a chronograph other than the 35P?

Mark

Mark Taylor
WV, USA - Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 01:44:06 (ZULU)

Alan I could not possible agree more. I'm so Fn'' sick of us having to become like the Europeans. Scumbuckets. Let the entire world ride all over you and let the US bail you out.

Our constitution may as well be toilet paper to the left. I'm getting really nervous with this more & more gun law crap.

I just heard in PA "legislation" was "introduced" so each year you have to register firearms.

I'm in NJ. If anything more than all the crap thats going around is going to force me to move it's shit like this.

A doctor for permission? What does a goddamn doctor know? You have to be kidding me. I'm still searching for one that knows his ass from a hole in the ground. I diagnose myself more accurately.

The Eurotrash is reading entirely too much from our press.

I'm not calling you Eurotrash Avi, I'm just saying.

Like Alan says, you just don't get it. As a whole lot it seems over here doesn't.

doug sickels
Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 02:24:10 (ZULU)

Mark re:chronographs

It's not richly featured, but it does the job.

The Shooting Chrony (made in Canada :-)

It has distribution in the US too.

http://shootingchrony.com/

Available in basic and advanced models.

Ellett Brothers, Brownell's, Precision Reloading and Sinclair International (among others) all sell them.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 03:40:19 (ZULU)

avi: The right to keep and bear arms is one of our fundamental God given rights. Some half-assed biologist with a God complex doesn't count.

Bravo: I figured good mags were going to get bid up in anticipation of legislation that may not happen. A couple of months ago you could get all the C-Products AR mags you wanted for ten bucks a pop. Laying in a supply looks like a prudent move to me.

MarcS: I'm taking the opportunity of your post to write a few things down. None of this meant as a lecture to anybody, particularly to you.

My checklist:

Uniform pressure at every point the rifle contacts the shooter or supports such as the ground or sandbags.

Zero cant.

Natural point of aim coincident with desired point of impact.

Crosshairs oscillating between 6:00 and 12:00, with 6:00 being point of aim.

Mentally isolate crosshair/POA picture and pad of right index fingertip. Feel the fingertip on the trigger.

Release as much air as wants to go.

Desired sight picture causes second joint in right index finger to HINGE gently but decisively to push the button STRAIGHT BACK.

Consciously see the crosshairs on the point of aim through the fall of the firing pin.

CDC'
Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 04:07:40 (ZULU)

Oh yeah, as Lindy said, forward tension on the bipod. My half-baked theory is that a lot of long range horizontal dispersion blamed on missed wind calls aren't due to missed wind calls at all. The problem is rifle cant.

CDC'
Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 04:23:02 (ZULU)

Avi "gets it" just fine...

Those of you dismissing him are the ones who are missing something here...

See, a nut got a gun...a nut with a history of being a nut; a nutjob who was singled out as a nutjob long before filling out his paperwork for his firearms. A nut on drugs known to cause violent episodes. Yet this guy blew thru the silly-assed barriers that our gun control fellow citizens dumped on us.

So, in the aftermath, the obvious question is/ will be: How to prevent nutjobs from lying about mental history on their fed forms? Or, how do we later prevent aspects of medical history from becoming open records for such checks? How do we keep suppositions, affidavits and heresay statements from becoming de-facto blocks to OUR second ammendment rights (conviction of crazy without any trial)???

Avi raises a good point...if we do not have any better ideas to keep guns from psycho a-hats, someone will write a bill that dumps this or a worse idea upon us. The media will cherry pick other, lesser violent acts where psychos have gun access to move on us...at least we should do is think about it. Avi's idea may not sit well with you (or me)---but do ya got a better idea? Stonewall the antis? Might work. Then again, you may also need to see a doctor to buy your next gun. At least think before you condemn.

I came by here to explain my absense....

And found the same shit that made me leave in the first place. I guess if some of you thought of others here as highly as you hold yourself and your opinions (held as facts), there would be a tad more respect for differing opinions--or indeed, mission profiles. Sadly, I find this place changed subtly to that not of my liking...

Maybe i'll try again in a few months. Meantime, I am having a grand time spending ammo like gold (quite so), teaching my boy the finer points of the guvmint auto, and sight picture to a peanut....good times. Kid may well be in Iraq by fall....where the hell does time go?

Old friends, my email workie...stay in touch. And hawgs, try leaving all this shooting at the range. Come here to be challenged with thought instead of trying out yer latest quick-draw techniques on each other. It was that quality that hooked me in at first. There is a "BS line" to be sure....but there is also a whole bunch of territory and technique to the "right" of that line...

Joe M
Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 04:38:10 (ZULU)

I, for one, won't miss the lectures!

And I'll leave it at that.

ALAN
Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 04:46:07 (ZULU)

Now back to comments on shooting.

As has been said here more than once...

You can't cant.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 04:59:52 (ZULU)

Avi...

Please understand that your country and ours are very different. So are our "doctors".... and their attitude towards the "gun culture".

Most doctors in this country are anti-gun, so their opinion about whether you should have a gun or not is already skewed against you. And they don't want to take responsibility for saying "YES", so it's easier to say "NO".

My "Ex" told a doctor that my son was Attention Deficit Hyper active Disorder and Learning Disabled, so the doctor diagnosed him as ADHD/LD WITHOUT ANY TESTS...

Then another doctor saw the report of the first doctor, and repeated the "diagnosis", and it kept be repeated over and over... my son was put in a class for learning disabled, and he crashed.

See the problem is that on an IQ test with a maximum score of 138, my son tested 138 in half of the time he was allowed.

My son is a certified genius (he takes after the ol' man ;).

He wasn't ADHD/LD... he was just sooooo fucking bored, that he just quit.

Now it has taken SIX years for me to get that label taken off of him, but he is still in a school for the learning disabled... and he is on the honor roll - ???

And none of the doctors and other professionals can be held accountable for their error in diagnosis, because, "It's an opinion"!!

The doctors in this country can say what they want, and have no responsibility for their errors in the field of psychology, because it's "all opinions".

"Can you have a gun - "NO", but that's my opinion, so you can't sue me if I deprive you of your rights to own a gun, even if I'm wrong... and why do you want to own more than one gun? Are you gun crazy?"

Your doctors all have military experence, and guns are a natural thing for your people.

Not here - none of our doctors have been in the military, and they hate the military... and they hate guns.

As to the guy last week... that was a different matter - a court found him to be a certified nut case, SEVERAL TIMES. He was found guilty of stalking women on more than one occasion - this is a crime in this country - stalking women means that you are not allowed to own a gun. but the courts did nothing about it.

I would have no constitutional problems denying this sick turd access to firearms... in fact he should have had his own room in the "Happy Hotel".

Mark...

The CED chronograph is excellent - bought one and sold my Oehler 35-P.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 08:44:24 (ZULU)

Nasty insomnia.

On the pre-shot checklist I wrote:

"Uniform pressure at every point the rifle contacts the shooter or supports such as the ground or sandbags."

A little more detail:

As Lindy said, body directly behind rifle. Butt of rifle pulled into shoulder by large muscles in back. Don't pull hard enough to introduce any muscular strain. It's important to use the large back muscles because the harder a muscle works, the more it induces oscillations. Oscillation=wobble. Large muscles strain less than small muscles. The rifle is not gripped by the right hand. The three fingers not pulling the trigger are curled but do not grip the rifle. If you grip, those three fingers move sympathetically as the trigger is pressed. Also, if you grip the rifle, the small muscles in the forearm strain. Muscular strain introduces oscillation.

I'm familiar with two cases for the use of the left hand in the bipod prone position. One is the "beanie baby prone" as shown to me by Mike Miller. The other is the shooting glove technique described on this board by Ranger Rick. Rick's instructions would be worth looking up if anybody is actually reading this and is interested.

The right (duh) cheek is placed on the comb at the exact same place every time. The muscles in the back of the neck are relaxed to allow the weight of the shooter's head to completely rest on the rifle. This does three (maybe) important things; It increases the effective weight of the rifle thus reducing recoil A LOT, it keeps the rifle from getting a running start before it whacks you in the face and it makes the effective weight of the rifle more uniform.

The last two points are worth considering. You don't want the rifle to whack you in the face. If it does, your body will learn involentarily (sp?) to anticipate the shot. That interferes with the fundamentally important later step of "seeing the crosshairs on the target through the fall of the firing pin". The Rooskies did a lot of research in this area.

You want a uniform effective rifle weight (did I just make that up?) because the boolet leaves the riffle while the riffle is in recoil. Different riffle weight=different point in recoil arc at which boolet leaves the barrel = vertical stringing.

CDC'
Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 10:57:35 (ZULU)

Doctors and guns: Some Earth Cookie Doctor from some idiot federal agency diagnosed my son as being developmentally disabled. She never asked him a question or even looked him in the eye.

He finished the University's pre algebra textbook when he was eight and scored at eleventh year, seventh month (High School Junior, seventh month) on the state's standardized reading test when he was nine.

Yeah, "developmentally disabled".

My ex-neurologist misses so many easy calls that he's lucky he gets to bury his mistakes. If he was a cook, nobody would stay for dessert.

My academic advisor had me grade, tutor and lecture graduate psychology students in some medium rigorous statistics.

You wouldn't have much faith in 'em either.

CDC'
Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 11:50:29 (ZULU)

I thought Rick's idea of gripping the rear sling swivel with a gloved hand made sufficient sense that I stopped using a rear bag some time ago. I use Nomex aircraft-crew gloves, though, rather than a padded shooting glove. The padding would be nice, but it tends to hinder flexibility.

My AI doesn't have a rear sling swivel to grip, but it does have an Accushot Monopod on it, which works splendidly.

Not having to move a rear bag around also makes transitions between positions much faster, and the gloved hand works very much better when shooting moving targets.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 13:10:35 (ZULU)

'lito,

Thanks for the info on CED.

rod regier,

Thanks, I have considered the Shooting Chrony.

CDC'

'Earth Cookie' has a nice ring to it; can I borrow it?

Mark

Mark Taylor
West Virginia, USA - Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 16:26:11 (ZULU)

Mark,

I've heard them also referred to as "Earth Muffins".

FWIW, YMMV

Duman
Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 16:34:55 (ZULU)

Guys...

Wazza "Earth Cookie" or a "Earth Muffin"????

Sounds like a left over hippy babe from the 60's without a bra, that only tokes "organic" weed ;))

Do they swallow??

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 17:11:44 (ZULU)

A guy who spoke to one of the mucky-mucks from Oehler at the ShotShow told me that they are seriously considering re-introducing the 35P with updated electronics for a PC interface. Those really interested should e-mail Oehler and do a little prodding.

The CED M2, which is the Millenium with improvements to overcome the low light problems that some of them had is presently backordered. They should be readily available in about two months, maybe less.

Overall, I still like my 35P and recently bought a spare sensor and skyscreen kit from them - just in case.

ALAN
Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 17:15:16 (ZULU)

Don't go all absolute on Doc's, I know a few good ones. One volunteered to go to Iraq with me and put his mega mil per year practice on hold along with his family to do so. The guy was out running the perimeter of the FOB every day in flak and helmet.

Absolutes are iffy things. I've coached more than a few Doc's kids in junior smallbore. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 18:02:12 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Alan said you were looking for weight of his barrel..I did some maths, and reckon the barrel will weigh just about 2.25kg, which is 5lb, about spot on..His wasn't fluted, mind.

Doug S,

<<I'm not calling you Eurotrash Avi, I'm just saying.

Well, I hope not Dougie, cuz Avi ain't Euro...Check your map..

later

JR
Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 18:16:33 (ZULU)

No shit

doug sickels
Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 18:46:59 (ZULU)

hay

i dont know moch abute your docs but we do not heve that choice.

here today was independence day end we hede a hero doc form france how maid aliyya to israel.

served as a volunteer in the last war in libanon and saved many lifes of young soldiers .

he was given the honor to light one of the menura candles in the

central israely ceremony .

avi

avi
haifa, israel, is - Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 20:41:54 (ZULU)

Earth Cookie?

How odd. I rather thought geophagy had gone out of fashion...

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territory of Mexico, Texas, USA - Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 21:11:25 (ZULU)

Docs:

I'm lucky. My GP knows I'm involved the shooting sports and has no issues one way or the other. I have him sign me up for lead levels testing on occasion. My opthomologist also knows, and mentions that he's involved in martial arts. My optician (same office) told me about helping a rifle shooter to create a prescription (using his rifle) that allowed him to precisely focus on his front iron sight and position the centre of his glasses when he had a good cheek-weld.

What makes this surprising is this is in Canada! Halifax is a good-sized city, but residents of this province are bit closer to nature that in the really big centres (Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal etc).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 22:17:30 (ZULU)

"Sounds like a left over hippy babe from the 60's without a bra,..."

Yeah, that's the type.... except a LOT younger, and much cuter.... squirrel-kissing, duck-squeezing, tree-hugging, penguin-spanking, hippy chicks.

Duman
Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 22:51:30 (ZULU)

Just to set the record straight. The Euro Trash remark was in no way meant for Avi. I was referring to the mentality throughout Europe to sign up for more and more laws and restrictions. We are not Europe but are quickly going down that road. We have enough gun laws already and I'm sick of politicians always trying to take our rights away.

It's true the shooter at VT should not have been sold a gun, a mental case that slipped through the cracks. Shit like this will happen and continue to happen. He could have just as easily obtained a gun illegally. In Britan you can't even buy a knife anymore. Lets stop with the new laws.

I'm done with this, thank you and goodnight.

By the way Avi, our doctors here are for the most part worthless hacks that can't think for themselves and are in existence just to pump you full of the latest drug that the Pharmaceutical companies are pushing.

Unless you have a broken arm or the like you can't trust most of them for a correct diagnosis.

doug sickels
Tuesday, April 24, 2007, at 23:45:11 (ZULU)

Mark Taylor: "Earth Cookie" is all yours.

Ken M: No disrespect to any particular MD. My cardiologist is an good guy. Some docs aren't. Same as with plumbers.

CDC'
Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 00:49:37 (ZULU)

CDC-

Thank you for your thoughts I read all of them carefully. That's what I had in mind when I asked for the advice. One thing that caught me was resting the face on the stock. I don't do that. My face makes light contact along the side of the jawbone and my neck muscles are still sore the next morning after a match from holding my eight pound ball upright. I will try that but it seems like it would be very uncomfortable. As though what I'm doing now isn't LOL.

I make it a point to read every word of every post I ever see by Rick and have picked up alot from that guy. I wish he'd post more often or just write a book.

Your comparison of doctors and plumbers was right on. My cousin is an anesthesiologist and he said it the same way but used auto mechanics instead. In every town some mechanics are ok, a few are very good and very honest, and a few should not be allowed to work.

Lindy- Thanks for the glove idea. I've tried the padded shooting glove and it worked well but it doesn't really fit with the type of shooting I'm doing now. I'll try your idea this weekend at the So Cal match.

Thanks guys,

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 03:09:04 (ZULU)

Wasn't there a mention of a RIFFLE RAFFLE a few days back...?

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 03:52:51 (ZULU)

If anybody has any comments on those two long shooting posts, please post them. You guys know a lot about this stuff.

MarkS: If you get the comb height right, it isn't uncomfortable at all. A cheek-eez pad helps. There are other tricks to get the comb height the way you want it. We can get into that if you want.

CDC'
Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 04:35:17 (ZULU)

That's ok I have an adjustable cheekpiece on the one I'm shooting right now. I'll just crank it up some.

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 05:20:32 (ZULU)

Got a question. Does anyone know of a set of rings that attach to your scope and have a picitany rail on top allowing you to attach another device to the top of your scope? I need a way to mount an EOTech on top of my 4X10X50 on my long barrel AR upper.

Also, to all of you that remember me, that I havent seen in 5 or 6 years, hows it going.

Last but not least I have to ask whats the better rifle, Winchester or Remington? HA! I had to ask it, cause it's been a while since I have seen this arguement.

Whats up Pablito? What's the latest greatest recipe for cat.

Sarge call in some Arte and hunker down in the spider hole.

Anyone heard from Gouch lately?

Like I say it's been 5 or 6 years since I've been here. Nice to see the site has survived and is even stronger than when I left. Seems like the posters are smarter too. Maybe the years of experience have benifited us all.

Jeff Cooper
Memphis, TN, - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 05:38:40 (ZULU)

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,133272,00.html?ESRC=army.nl

XM110 rifle deployed.

LTChip
Old Hangtown, CA, - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 07:35:03 (ZULU)

Again, I'm not lecturing anyone here. I've just been meaning to write this out for a while. This seems like a good place to get good editorial opinion. Very little of this is mine. Most was picked up from books, trainers, magazines and here. Rick would recognize his words in some of it. 'yote bait too. He may be FOS on 1911s, but he's certainly bloodied his truckbed honorably.

Most of this sounds categorical and absolute. It isn't. It is written this way to save time. Disagreement or comment is welcome.

The first post said, "Natural point of aim coincident with desired point of impact."

It is important that the shooter not use his right hand to cheat the crosshairs onto the point of aim. One reason is that hand tension introduces oscillation. Another very important reason is that, between the time the sear breaks and the time the bullet leaves the barrel, the recoil moves the barrel toward the natural point of aim. If your natural point of aim and your actual point of aim are the same, no error is introduced.

The shooter checks NPA is by closing his eyes, relaxing then opening them. If the crosshairs are still on the desired point of aim, IF THE RIFLE ISN'T CANTED, and if the shooter has done his dry-firing homework, the NPA should be good. The part dry-firing plays will be addressed later.

CDC'
Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 12:01:53 (ZULU)

Alan,

Got my M40 put back togeather again and took it to the range last night to get it sighted in. I wasn't going to shoot groups because I had a quartering 12 to 15mph wind but after shooting the first 3 shots they were all in a neat little figure 8 cluster I decided to keep shooing before I made any scope adjustments. It shot a .580 group with a clean bore rifle.

I tried one more load and it went into a .607 so I was happy with that!!! I didn't shoot any more after that because the wind was picking up enough to start moving the pickup around. (I was shooting off the hood of my PU.)

I don't know why it started shooting better. If it was from a good cleaning or its just getting broke in now or whatever. I did find the magazine was binding when it was put togeather. Its an ADL mag cut down to fit a BDL so that may have been causing me a problem too. Anyway its coming around now and I am happy with it. Send me your address and I will shoot you some pictures. I can't send anything email, my computer will strip all attatchments at work. Thanks!!

Pat
Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 13:31:39 (ZULU)

I've got a Mk4 M3 10X Luppy and the turrets are becoming really stiff. I really, really don't want to send it to Leupold. Removing the cam doesn't exactly make me all warm and fuzzy either. Is there a remedy for this w/o boxing it up?

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 13:50:06 (ZULU)

Boring legal custody shit.

I've gotten a few inquiries from some of the bumz here on the custody case... and I haven't said much in the last few months.

Well... I'm still learning how to play in the legal sandbox. Take my word for it - don't go there unless you absolutely must. I'll never be able to go for jury duty again.

The last few hearings (since January) have been about money.

See... when you go to court about custody, the court requires the kidlet to have an attorney and a guardian - around here, they get $300 to $400 an HOUR(???).

These fees are split by both of the parents - in the first case, the total for both was over $55,000. I paid some of my half, but when I realized it was fixed, I stopped paying them. I told them that I was on to their deals, and they could swim for the money - they both stopped billing me (an admission of guilt).

This time around... same thing. The bills for the guardian and child's attorney are around $35,000 so far, and growing (the child's current attorney billed $4,950 for taking the boy to two appoints that were one hour away from my "Ex"s house!!!). Yeah, I know... how do you get a job like that?? Mario Andretti doesn't charge that much to drive, and Cher's stretch limo would be cheaper... if Cher was driving it!!

So anyway... the bills are racking up and I haven't got a dime left from the first trial, and I tell these two folks up front that I haven't got it. They say that the judge can order me to pay it, and send me to jail if I don't.

I tell them that I found a law down in the dusty bowels of the law library, that says if I don't have the money, the court has to pay my fees. They (both lawyers) say they never heard of that law, and anyway, the court has no money.

So I filed a motion for what's called a "Waiver of Fees", and cited the law in my motion.

The Ex's lawyer immediately filed an objection, saying that the law I cited doesn't apply, the dog ate her law books, etc.

The first hearing, the judge reads my motion, and the law I quoted... and looks it up in the online law library... and he smiles ;)

Then he asks who filed first. So the Ex's lawyer blurps out "Mr. 'lito filed first, your honor. I say, "Your honor, the defendants attorney is lying. I was holding her motion that I "never see or speak to my son again", in my hand when I was in the law library writing my motion. So she does a 180, and says that, well that's true, she filed first, but mine was date stamped first... the judge doesn't buy it.

He reads her motion and says it's a "VERY Draconian motion". Then he says, "He has no money, you started this, why should he have to pay for it?"... and he says for both of us to come back in a month with fresh financial affidavits. We go back in a month (different judge), and she doesn't have her financials, and her lawyer whines to the judge that the last judge was overly broad in his interpretation of the law that I cited.

This judge reads the files, and says, "I'm inclined to take the same broad interpretation... be back on May 8th with all of the required documents".

So the Ex's lawyer is in deep doo-doo, cuz if she looses this round (and it looks like she will), the court doesn't pay my legal bills... my Ex has to pay them. My ex gets hit with an extra $30,000 that would be my share of the child's legal bills :)))))

Par duex.

You'd be surprised at how hard it is to get someone arrested for perjury, witness tampering, evidence tampering, and conspiracy to fix a trial... it sure ain't like on TV.

Most agencies don't have jurisdiction, and the one that does (the State Police) is used to handling cases like smuggling tax free cigarettes from North Carolina.

I spent 2.5 hours with a Sgt last Friday, and at the end of it he still didn't understand what I was talking about.

Anyway... the Ex's lawyer has found out that I'm pursuing badd stuff against her for fixin' the first trial, and she has issued a subpoena for copies of all of my "relevant" stuff (but her wording is sloppy)... including the stuff that I have sent to the forensic psychologist that is doing a work-up on the three of us now.

She's scared and want's to know what I have, and I've been trying to figure a way around it, cuz I don't want her to know what I have and how it fits together. And I don't want her to know what poo-poo I have sent to the forensic psychologist that shows my Ex to be a NutBurger (with cheese ;).

It came to me last night. I will give her three copies of every document I have, including all school records going back to the 3rd grade(7 years worth), all the doctor files, and tons of other stuff including worthless e-mails - maybe 2,000+ pages... all copied on the "lightest" setting of the copier. Then I will mix it all up and scramble it like shuffled cards, so none of it makes any sense, and 20 page files are broken up, all through the 2,000 pages.

Then I will give her the whole bunch in a box, and say "It's in there".

It'll take her 30 to 50 or more hours just to sort it out and put it together (at $400 an hour)... and she won't know what is relevant and what is being used for what part of my case.

What I have learned is that it is all about "...what the meaning of is, IS".

It is how things are worded, and if they make a mistake in wording a motion or document, you can take advantage of that wording... you can skirt around it, do most anything you want, and the problem falls back on them for the wording... and as a "Pro-Se" party (representing myself), I get slack in this because I don't know what I'm doing ;)))))

I add this bit of devious behavior for the two other SC guys out there that are fighting custody battles, plus the untold lurkers that are (or will be) dealing with custody at some point.

You want my 4 leaf clovers, here's a box of clover - you didn't say you wanted ONLY clovers that had 4 leaves, and DIDN'T SAY you didn't want any other kinds of clovers"...

... it's also known as "Hide in plain sight".

Anyway... the case is going surprisingly well, considering that I don't know shit about law - my Ex has already spent $50,000+ on this trial (and more than that last time), and it's cost me about $200 (not counting gas to drive to the court)... so she is going to be real financially hurt on this.

And... to the conspiracy stuff. I have been digging in the court files and found another case that involves my Ex's lawyer and my son's first attorney... and guess what - the two bastards did the same thing to this guy.

I met with him last night and told him what I have and he gave me transcripts and files (and he has much more) and in the transcript, there is documented testimony of my son's attorney tampering with a witness during a deposition - in concert with my Ex's lawyer.

So that's what's going on as of now.

They say it will be over In July, maybe August.

Life do get interesting, do'ent it?

Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of lawyers...

... da' 'lito doo ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 14:51:15 (ZULU)

Pat -

Sounds like a combination of break-in, a good cleaning, and getting some clearance around the magazine box. They've all probably contributed to its improved performance - hard to say which has done the most;) I'm glad to hear that it's coming around for you. My M40/Shilen combo has been doing about the same - in the high .5's to mid .6's with the standard 175SMK/Varget load, but it seems to prefer the 168SMK/42.5 H4895 load just a tad better with steady low to mid .5 groups. Or maybe it's just circumstantial? That's certainly a possibility!

Address is on the way to your e-mail.

CDC -

Your points on the natural point of aim are well taken. The hardest part is maintaining a natural point of aim in some unatural positions ;)))

But seriously, I think this discussion is great. Keep it up, point by point.

ALAN
Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 15:04:55 (ZULU)

Hey Guys Lito has not asked for it but here is a thought. Paul has been on here for over a decade helping everyone. From working with scope companies to ammo to just telling guys how to shoot. He has never asked for anything and is not asking now, but anyone who has been where he is can see help could be used.

I suggest we start a collection to help him with the legal bills. I pledge 100.00 to help.

Paul please accept this and tell me where to send the money. Not to be repaid because I figure you have helped me far more than 100.00 worth and I owe you this.

I hope others follow suit.

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 15:16:49 (ZULU)

Mike/Undude,

You can count me in for $100.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The rainy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 16:38:05 (ZULU)

'Lito, yew RAWK, Dude! Remind me to never, ever, get you mad at me.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 16:38:26 (ZULU)

Lindy,

Geophagy still shows up in the medical literature occasionally;

young, pregnant, southern women eating river-bank clay. Early spec-

ulation of mineral deficiency disproven. In 1985 a biochemist named

David Dolphin (real name) speculated that 'vampirism' was a symptom

of a genetic blood disorder we now call porphyria. Speculation also

disproven. Moonbats, however, do run the country.

Mark

Mark Taylor
WV, USA - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 16:57:59 (ZULU)

UnDude and Doc.

Send the money to the local gun store so I can get my Rem 700 CDL Ltd. .17 Fireball out of jail ;))))

Seriously, guys. I am really touched by your generosity, but I can't take it.

I was talking to Bravo this past weekend (you wanna know where all my cell minutes go?? ;), and 'splained to him that I have deliberatly keep my income down (I'm workin 1/2 a day a week) so the court will hit her with the fees when they hear my motion for waiver of fees.

I'm gonna be alright on this one, really.

When it's over, I'll get back to real life (is there such a thing anymore).

That's when it gets sweet - cuz I have a law suit against my first bimbo lawyer. Really, guys, I'mm gonna make it OK.

Someone fucks with my rat, the better crawl in a hole and pull it in after them, cuz a broken beer bottle is gonna follow.

Mang... I LOVE this Bar!!

'lito

CatShooter
not t home 'puter :((, - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 19:18:33 (ZULU)

Just finished catching up on reading posts back through and had to comment on something. Prozac and ritlin are two completely different drugs. Prozac is an SSRI and is prescribed for anxiety and depression. Ritlin is an amphedamine and is over proscribed in my opinion for ADD/ADHA. Ritlin being an amphedamine can cause aggression in some people along with a lot of other undesirable symptoms such as perinoid schizophrenia. Example: Adolph Hitler thought all the jews and others were aout to get him. He was on the biggest of all amphedamines, methamphedamine. Prozac being prescribed for people who are depressed and/or have anxiety may not be causing the symptoms such as homicidal/sucidal tendancies. These people who are already depressed probably already have these tendancies and are just not telling thier doctors about them because depression/anxiety alone will not get you thrown in the nut house. It will just get you a script for an SSRI. Admitting to homicidal/sucidal tendancies however will most definately get you a firts class ticket to the loony bin. I think in the state of Tennessee it is even in the state health codes that doctors who are told by thier patients that they are havein these feelings are required to hospitalize them for observation and medication adjustments.

That being said, the shooter is guilty no manner how crazy he is and ought to be put in front of the firing squad of about 10 men, with no mask, who pull the trigger on blanks one at a time untill someone with a loaded bullet finally does the job. That way he knows what it is like to be terrorized while waiting to die.

Guess this is enough on this subject before someone accuses me of having homicidal tendancies and directs me to a weeks vacation at the funny farm.

Next subject: Has anyone tried the H&K AR15/M16 mags? They are pricey but they are the S**t. No tipping follower. I tried to make mine misfeed or tip down and couldn't get them to do it. If you don't have them yet you probably ought to get them now before you can't.

Last, Anyone got any opinion on subsonic bullets. I'm thinking a heavier bullet with a higher BC will carry better "not drop" as much as a lighter bullet with a lower BC traveling at the same speed. Someone give me some feed back if they know anything on the subject cause I have a friend begging me to load some .223 for him. I already know, and told him, that they wont cycle in his AR but he wants them anyway.

Jeff Cooper
Memphis, TN, - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 20:26:19 (ZULU)

Lito:

You're not the first to use the "hide the toothpick in the forest" technique, but that doesn't invalidate the beauty of it.

Saw it in a movie too.

Discovery process can be a beast - for the other side :-)

Rod Regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 22:52:09 (ZULU)

Jeff, was issued a bunch of HK mags for my little vacation to Iraq, I was underwhelmed. New GI mags with Magpul followers work as well, are lighter, fit in GI pouches and don't rust.

On that note, Bravo, drop me an E-mail, I'll get you that mag and you can try it yourself and make your own decisions. I got back from TAD a week ago.

Yeah, high BC subsonics are slightly flatter, doesn't really matter anything at 1050fps is gonna be a spitball. Heavy bullets carry more energy, but again, doesn't really matter, all rifle bullets plow through plenty of tissue without doing nothing dramatic at 1050fps too. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 23:42:24 (ZULU)

Jeff,

I've stayed away from the HK magazines for three reasons. At first it was the fact that I absolutely hate Heckler & Koch. Then I saw the price, it made me hate HK even more, but I thought these things better be really something for that much $!!! After Sinister reported that they (the AMTU) were having nothing but trouble with them my mind was made up. Screw HK!

Besides that, I never have had trouble with the NIW USGI magazines that I've bought, and they're even slicker with the Magpul follower. Too many necessary thimgs to buy before I'd waste my money on an HK magazine.

Just my .02 and worth everything you've paid for it ;)

ALAN
Wednesday, April 25, 2007, at 23:52:46 (ZULU)

Hello Gents:

I am a shooter on a bit of a shoe string budget.

What I am looking for is some commentary on Millet TRS-1

rifle scopes either good, bad, ugly or indifferent.

The glass in question is to be mounted on a Fed Ord M1A using

an ARMS mount and rings. The stock I was planning on using was

a surplus fiber glass with a homemade cheek rest made from a

plastic cutting board.

Any suggestions welcome.

Jerry
Rudy, AR, US - Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 02:24:54 (ZULU)

'lito san...

Ya da man! If I can be of any help, now or later, holler.

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 03:16:43 (ZULU)

'Lito has helped me enormously. Both in private emails and just regular posts so count me in too.

Don't be too proud to take it man it would make many such as myself happy for the opportunity to return a favor.

Just saw an ad in the American Rifleman for the new Taurus 1911. Have any of you guys played with one yet?

Marc

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 03:22:25 (ZULU)

Hey Yotie...

I know your lurkin' out there.

My 'puter got broke a few months ago, and I lost all my e-mail addresses.

Hit me with an e-mail, would'ja??

rod...

>" Lito:

You're not the first to use the "hide the toothpick in the forest" technique, but that doesn't invalidate the beauty of it. Saw it in a movie too."<

What movie did you saw it in??

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 03:23:23 (ZULU)

The next step is, "Crosshairs oscillating between 6:00 and 12:00, with 6:00 being point of aim."

As you breathe, the crosshairs oscillate between 6:00 and 12:00. When your breathing pauses, the oscillations slow dramatically for a couple of seconds until most of the remaining oscillations are caused by the beating of your heart. The crosshairs still move between 6:00 and 12:00 but they move much less and they move very regularly for, oh, 6 to 12 seconds more or less. At very near 6:00 the crosshairs pause. That's where you want your point of aim. After that interval, the tension in your muscles and the body's desire to breathe cause an increase in the amplitude of the oscillations.

So there's your NPA and the interval within which you should press your trigger.

CDC'
Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 04:40:36 (ZULU)

Jerry, yer my kinda man. Cheap. I recently bought one of Millett's 4-16 x 50 side focus Tactical Rifle Scopes (TRS)with the illuminated reticle. On the whole, I was surprised at the quality of the image, the mildots were the right size, and the 16 power helped me in my mil ranging becdause th image was larger and easier to estimate. One GLARING problem, though. The elevation adjustment was .75 of what's printed on the turret, and the knobs are only 9 moa per complete turn. If yer gonna shoot past 500 yards, it's going to get confusing. If you dial up 10 moa, it's only going to come up 7.5 moa. At least, that's what mine did. And, good luck finding anything on Millett's web page for warranty help. I've emailed them, twice, and haven't heard squat from anyone. For less money, you can get a Bushnell 3200 Elite, mildot, and it's just the cat's meow for the money. Ask Sarge...I dialled in the 1k dope, and the target was clear enough that I got first round hits at a thousand. Next scope I'm gonna try, if the possible ex-Mrs. doesn't rape me for too much, is a SuperSniper. Millet, nah.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonin, Texas, USA - Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 05:25:43 (ZULU)

Ken and Alan: where are you getting your new USGI issue mags with MagPul followers? All I have had before are the ones with green or gray followers and they all had problems allowing the bullets to tip down and hit the front side of the magazine and then cause a hell of a jam. I've heard the magpull follower helps, but I've had no problems out of my H&K's except they are heavier and a little longer.

On the subsonic bullets, that's what I figured. I think I'll try to talk him into getting another rig for a larger caliber gun. .30 or .338 with Nosler ballistic tips. He's got guns and Money comming out the wazoo and wants to spend it. If we go up to a larger caliber we can get even more weight and probably better BC's also. Whatever he does, it's for a 100 yd night time coyote gun. They are killing his dogs, rabbits and quail, not to mention scareing off the local deer heard. I prefer to use my .300 RUM and sit on an open 1200 acre field and take them out form a long distance. Usually 600 to 900 yards. They don't know what is hiting them. They just know thier friends are dropping dead and hearing a big boom a few seconds later. I once got 4 this last winter with 3 shots. 2 with the first shot, one with each sucsesive shot, the 4th one was at a full run. They had finally figured out where it was comming from. The 5th, and last one left, topped a hill as I was about to pull the trigger on him. My hunting parterner came over and asked why I shot three deer cause he knows I don't miss. I told him it was coyotes and he liked to died when he saw there were 4 scattered between 680 and 740 yards from where I was laying. Sniping isn't just for the LE and Military guys. Some of us use it to put meat on the table not just punch holes in paper. You can't eat paper and it doesn't attack you either. Long range hunting puts a reality and reward to it. Sure deer don't shoot back at you but if you are good neither does the HVT you are after, nor do his men. One shot one kill, no triangulation, and no one will know where to shot anyway. Not making light of you guys in the sand box. I tried to join, they said I was too old. Guess I'll go over as private contractor this winter after cropdusting season is over. Not quite the same, but the money is a lot better, and you are still doing something to support your country.

Jeff Cooper
Elvis, Tennesee, - Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 05:43:17 (ZULU)

Anyone here try the Falcon Merlin scope from snipercentral.com?

Looks to be about the same as the SS from SWFA but a bit less expensive (not that the SS is pricey).

http://www.snipercentral.com/falcon.htm

LTChip
Old Hangtown, CA, - Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 08:30:12 (ZULU)

"Mentally isolate crosshair/POA picture and pad of right index fingertip. Feel the fingertip on the trigger."

You see/visualize the exact sight picture that presses the trigger. Feel the right finger tip very lightly touching the trigger.

"Release as much air as wants to go."

Nothing to add.

"Desired sight picture causes second joint in right index finger..."

Repeat; The sight picture presses the trigger. While dry firing every snap like your life depends on it (Practice makes permanent. Only perfect practice makes perfect.) you develop a neural pathway between the correct sight picture and the finger tip. You develop a conditioned response to the right sight picture. When you see what you want to see, your finger moves automatically. 'yote Bait called it "The Force". Use the conditioned response. For the important shots the temptation is to make a conscious effort. Conscious effort inhibits conditioned response. That is called "choking". If your dry firing was done correctly, you can trust your "Sight picture presses trigger" reflex.

"... to HINGE gently but decisively to push the button STRAIGHT BACK."

As mentioned earlier, the three fingers on the right hand that let the shoulder muscles pull the rifle gently into the shoulder are curled but don't grip. When pressing the trigger, the trigger finger bends ONLY at the second knuckle from the tip. If you hold your right hand in the described position and simulate pressing the trigger you will see that the pad of the fingertip comes back with less lateral motion than if you curl the trigger finger.

CDC'
Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 11:41:01 (ZULU)

Last one:

"Consciously see the crosshairs on the point of aim through the fall of the firing pin."

The interval between pressing the trigger and the fall of the firing pin is vital and is part of your eye/trigger/follow through conditioned response. While dry firing, practice seeing the correct sight picture through the fall of the firing pin. If the crosshairs move, either your NPA or your trigger press was wrong.

Flinching will screw this up. The Rooskie Olympic Shooting Team did a lot of research on this problem and found an effective way to manage it.

CDC'
Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 12:04:21 (ZULU)

Sharon...

>"'lito san...

Ya da man! If I can be of any help, now or later, holler.

Sharon"<

Well... it won't help with the court, but a new picture of you in your spring outfit with matching purse and pumps, with the two tone fishnet stockings would do miracles for my circulation ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 17:03:01 (ZULU)

Ok,, any of you guys with any 223AI's out there? I was thinking about switching to this in my Savage 223. You can gain 140 fps but in the grand picture I really don't think that will matter. But what do you all think? Wind drift at 1K with this round isn't that much diffrent than the 223 Rem. Is there a good reason I should switch to it?

This project will begin as soon as I don't get any more unexpected bills. Like the 200 vet bill I just had. I saw swelling in my colt stiffle and he was limping. I didn't think it was anything serious but took the colt in anyway. Doc said it looked like just swelling from trama. There was a small scratch on the stifle. Ran a bunch of tests to be sure. But I guess if it had been something serious the sooner caught the better.

Lito, Don't try talking to the cops (I R one I know) they don't normally get this type of case. They loose intrest when you take your thrid gasp of air. What you need to do is contact the District Attorny's office and talk to some one there. If it is a big office like we have here, there will be one shmoe that deals with this type of case. He won't mind hammering a laywer because it will make him look good and make the news. Your just plain Evil. And I like it.... Haha.

Bolt, Another weekend coming up. How you doing?

Going shooting with Chuck this weekend that should be a hoot.

Dirty Steve..........

Dirty Steve
San Antonio , Texas, USA - Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 17:29:13 (ZULU)

Dirty Steve...

I tried that.

I went to the Chief's States Attorney's office last spring, and he said that they don't take "Walk in cases". That it would have to be referred by some other agency. I thought of taking to the judge, but was told that they could NOT see it because I had a case in front of them.

The State Police guy I spoke to was really a nice guy but this stuff is so far over his head he was just dazed.

But the good part is that I have recently heard that my case is being transfered to another court (15 miles away from the house, instead of 80 miles away)... that specializes in this stuff alone.

So when that happens, I "think" I can send my evidence to the judges that I have been dealing with, and they will fully understand it all in tiny detail, and I won't have to go over and over the basic definitions of who the players are over and over and over again. And they actually know who the players are (by name).

And they will be pissed - because these two judges are good guys.

So that's my plan for now (it can be changed on a moment's notice ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 18:50:05 (ZULU)

Jeff, you get GI mags from wherever and you call up Magpul(or the seller of your choice) and you get X amount of followers and assemble yourself. I've got 25mm ammo cans full of USGI mags, and about 40'ish have the MP followers. The rest have GI green and work damned well enough for shooting P dogs and other scenarios where I won't die if there's a stoppage. Maybe I'm just blessed, but I never had a problem with the M16A4 rifle I used in Iraq. Might have something to do with being new and maintained by me. A 20 year old POS A2 or 5-8 YO M4 is just plain worn out and will be FUBAR whatever you use. Mostly destroyed by (over)cleaning by determined, well-meaning but clueless GI's or Marines. Prompted by egomaniac, petty tyrant, asshole armorers. S/F....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 21:11:53 (ZULU)

Lito:

Still trying to remember the movie or TV program. (must have CRS)

Probably something based on a John Gresham book or an episode of Law and Order, but not sure.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 21:31:55 (ZULU)

Rod Reiger,

I think it was "The Firm". At one point I think it was mentioned they were going to bury the opposition with 'discovery'. There was also a L&O where the prosecution was buried for days, trying to find a scrap of relevant information in a pile-o-boxes of documents.

Duman
Thursday, April 26, 2007, at 23:43:46 (ZULU)

Duman...

>"I think it was "The Firm". At one point I think it was mentioned they were going to bury the opposition with 'discovery'. "<

Ha... I don't remember that, but that's what I'm going to do. At $400 an hour, my Ex will go broke discovering that her son went to the 4th through 9th grade ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, April 27, 2007, at 01:36:58 (ZULU)

Ken

Thanks, didn't know if you bought the hole mags together of like you said just replaced the followers. Thought maybe you had a good source on low price mags. My M4A3 is only a couple weeks old. I sold my last one 6 years ageo along with all the mags. Funny but I don't remember having any problems with the mags back then.

I do take it with me when I go to pick up bond jumpers. Hopefully I won't have to use it for that, but you never know. It stays in the car that blocks the driveway anyway and the Kimber .45 goes to the door with me. Only had to use it once after a POS shot me in the arm with a .380. Some folks just don't like to go back to jail when they miss thier court date. Strangely enough, till the A**hole shot me he was only facing 2nd offense DUI cahrges and a failure to appear. He was cracked out at the time though.

Lito,

Guess you don't remember me. It's been a while "6 years".

Jeff Cooper
Tennessee, - Friday, April 27, 2007, at 01:42:03 (ZULU)

Funny this came from the magpul website.

"Out of the box the HK SA80A2 magazine probably the most reliable M16 compatible magazine made and has a mean time to failure rate twice that of a US GI mag (unless it gets rusty but that is another story). Our aim with the Magpul follower was to achieve 80% of that reliability increase over a USGI mag with a simple retrofit of the follower."

I guess 80% of the HK mag reliability is still better than the stangard USGI especially at $2.20 each. HK's are $48.00

Jeff Cooper
Memphis, Volunteer State, Southern United States of America - Friday, April 27, 2007, at 02:06:58 (ZULU)

'lito san...

>>>Well... it won't help with the court, but a new picture of you in your spring outfit with matching purse and pumps, with the two tone fishnet stockings would do miracles for my circulation ;)))<<<

Be still my heart...

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Friday, April 27, 2007, at 04:01:57 (ZULU)

Jeff Cooper...

>"Lito,

Guess you don't remember me. It's been a while "6 years". "<

Nope... I searched my Rum soaked brains and nothing comes up.

Of course the last three of going to do-it-your-self law scruel leaves a lot of fog on the brains.

Did we have a pie fight?? :)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, April 27, 2007, at 04:40:59 (ZULU)

'Lito

Na, no pie fights. You were just getting started if I remember correctly. Bolt, Sarge, and Gouch were the most prominent posters. I was shooting a .300 win mag at the time if I remember correctly you were curious about my loads. I remember Gouch was headed off to sniper school, and promoting the heck out of the mildot master. Course I could be wrong and it may have been more than 6 years and may have not been you asking about loads. They had just held the first competition.

Anyway, good luck with the lawyer deal. I handled both of mine. the second just a few years ago. Lots of fun. NOT!

Now I'm shooting a custom Renington in .300 Remington Ultra Mag. Shoots a LOT flatter. Great for headshots on deer out to 650 with 4 inch groups. Body shots even further. Mildot master hell? Range finder and dial it in! Got the drop dope to 1000 taped to the stock.

Jeff "Not the Col." Cooper
Memfro, TN, - Friday, April 27, 2007, at 05:37:09 (ZULU)

I just edited my last couple of posts on pulling the trigger.

Comments?

CDC'