Sniper Country Duty Roster

Jeff,

You're not the only light geek out there. The folks at this thread: http://www.ksccw.com/site/showthread.php?t=4173 have been discussing them for quite a while. I like a good light, but once they get to $100, I start losing interest.

JR,

I'd LOVE to have a viable black candidate. Then, all the losers that blame their failures on a racist government can stop claiming things would be different if they had real representation. Or, alternately, when they have a black president, and still lack ambition, they can start in on how the pres. is a "sellout", simply because he didn't start a program to give all the peopleon welfare plasma t.v's and spinner wheels!

Cold weather:

I had to go move the horses yesterday from a pasture next to the lake. I thought I was cold until later that night, when I talked to my uncle, who was in Minnesota. After talking to him, I was nearly warm!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, February 12, 2008, at 01:24:28 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Post a pic of your vest. I'm interested...or send it to me and I'll post it. If'n its okay.

Travis,

Thanks for posting the link on the "Lights For Ccw And Law Enforcement." That's been a fascinating read. Interesting what Watchmaker had to say about the current crop of LED and how the military isn't jumping on the LED bandwagon...yet. "Watchmaker" seems to know his stuff.

Here's the link again.

(click)

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Tuesday, February 12, 2008, at 02:37:35 (ZULU)

Best part of that link on lights is that "watchmaker" even added pics...Ya dont need a dictionary to figure out wich one really works and wich ones dont.Makes shopping a whole lot easier too.Now to keep the kid from swiping it.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Tuesday, February 12, 2008, at 10:31:49 (ZULU)

Lights,

Keep in mind, watchmaker is giving advice on which unit to buy for a specific need... "outdoor, short duration, potential conflict". I own a $25 G2 Surefire Nitrolon for that purpose and it's quite good.

medicjim
Tuesday, February 12, 2008, at 14:15:11 (ZULU)

Mourge, here's a link to a site that has started just what you're talking about on the load work. I think this may be what you're talkign about. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=13&page=1

I understand what you mean about getting load data from someone you know, but there's some pretty good information here non the less.

Steven, I'd recommend you give the Cor-Bon ammo a try. It's been more consistent in my .308's than Black Hills.

Edited to ask, how do you make the link go to your name, so I can just say "click my name" like all the cool guys do?

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America - Tuesday, February 12, 2008, at 15:07:13 (ZULU)

Tony:

For "click my name", just paste the URL into the URL box in the SC posting menu (just below the password).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, February 12, 2008, at 16:29:16 (ZULU)

Hey, thanks Rod. Click, :)

Tony Burkes
Alvin, Texas, United States of America - Tuesday, February 12, 2008, at 21:01:50 (ZULU)

Joe was just catching up from what I missed before missing a bit. Sublimation=going from solid state to gas without being a liquid in between. Pilots sometimes climb out of ice "if they can" to de-ice. Course I've never been that high in my poor little ole cropduster, but then I don't dust in iceing conditions either.lol

I'm gonna hear crap on this one but I like my lee collet's and deffinately go with carbide or something that is modern "doesn't need case lube". That's a step that should have been long gone by now.

Hey!!! I want my spinnered plasma too. Reverse discrimination. That's what they called it in Memfrica when the white firemen got left behind in promotions due to affirmative action. Personally discrimination is discrimination not sure how it can be reversed. It's defination doesn't include a color or race etc but that's what they called it on the news. Just caught me as funny. The G2 is a great cheap light. Mount one on your pic hand guard with a cheap 1" Weaver Ring. Going to check out the lights link now before wife gets home and catches me buying stuff on internet.

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Wednesday, February 13, 2008, at 00:53:07 (ZULU)

Travis,

I think you are missing my point, because I am probably one of the least bigoted or pigheaded people you have never met. What I am saying is to me it looks like the Demoncrats have set this up for the 'feel good' crowd.

Hillary has an agenda, everyone remembers(I think it took a week for it to sink in), which is why she's getting her butt kicked right now. Obama speaks well, but doesn't say much. I don't know what his ideas are, it's a lot of well spoken rhetoric.

This has to be the biggest set of losers I have seen running for president. And that is disparaging, at this crux of our history, we can't produce anyone viable in either party. We need to clone Ronnie. Bring back some grace, dignity, and a set of cajones to the white house.

JR
Wednesday, February 13, 2008, at 01:29:55 (ZULU)

Jeff:

I have a Lee collet die I use for a .308 Win bolt gun, but they're not a good choice for a semi-auto or a lever action.

I believe the original query was about dies for AR15-pattern in .223 Rem.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, February 13, 2008, at 02:15:17 (ZULU)

"Pilots sometimes climb out of ice "if they can" to de-ice"

When I was in Gardez, I realized that my service ceiling on the 58D would be about 1000' UGL---that is "under ground level," harhar. Tell me about climbimg out of ice: Isn't that the part where you extract yourself from the wreckage???

JR: We just need to identify every stressed out postal worker in the land, then write-in them for all federal offices. No offense to any postal workers with anger issues: My use of the cliche was for purely humorous porpoises:))

Well, at least the dolphins laughed...

OK, Morgue: Where do you want the next 8 inches of snow delivered? It'll be on my fields by tomorrow night, and I need to move it quick-like to make room for the next round this weekend:))

My only qiestion to global warmers: Who collects the tithes?

Joe M
Wednesday, February 13, 2008, at 03:07:55 (ZULU)

Guys-

The winner of the LTW raffle to benefit americansnipers.com is now in possession of the prize pistol and most of the rest of the package (Chris Reeve knife, Leupold binocs, etc.). We got $36,020 for americansnipers.com out of it, and that's the BAD news.

The bad news, you say?

OK, here's the GOOD news, we're doing it again, LTW is already getting started on a raffle package for, once again, americansnipers,org. Gonna draw the winner at SHOT next year in Orlando.

Will advise when tickets be ready!

Thanks to the guys at americansnipers.org for making this an easy sell and being so easy to work with and-- basically-- just so danged tireless and dedicated. That really got and kept us going full bore on the project. Looking forward to doing it again, this time the project will be lead by LTW 'smith Stan Chen.

Ned Christiansen
3R, MI, - Wednesday, February 13, 2008, at 05:54:17 (ZULU)

Hows everyone been?havent been here in quite sometime.

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Wednesday, February 13, 2008, at 16:58:01 (ZULU)

Joe Places like you're talking about, you really have to watch out when in clouds, for imbeded Cumulogranite. My only actual instrument time is not even logged as such. It was hours 14-16. We were returning from Panama City Beach on spring break and my instructer/Fraternity brother had a hangover and was asleep. I woke him up when we hit the clouds, he looked around, watched the instruments for about 5 minutes, and said "your doing fine, wake me up when the ADF spins if we were not in VMC". Luckily, I had probably a couple hundred unlogged hours before I started formal training and logging time. We broke out about 15 minutes before we reached our destination. I look back and think about stupid things like that, and wonder how I ever made it to 38.

Rod Right now I don't reload for my M4. My Lee's are for my .308 also. What problems do they cause in the auto's? Because with ammo prices doubling or more since I bought my last few cases of surplus, I was contemplating buying some and starting to reload for it? Also I neck size only for all my guns, but they are all bolts except for the affore mentioned. I know I'll have to full length resize for the auto. Is that the problem?

Next topic Ok, why is it that I have to hear about this rifle over the phone from a buddy of mine that is about as far removed from sniping as you can get and still own long guns. http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/m24a3sws.htm Morgue!!! Where were you on this one buddy? LOL I haven't even heard it mentioned. Does anyone here have any experience with the M24A3? If so give me the "low down". Someone hit me with some G2. What's the scuttle but about it? While we're on Remington, can someone tell me where I can get a Remington Military Tango Series I w/clip point?

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Wednesday, February 13, 2008, at 17:23:51 (ZULU)

There I was.....

a fist full of throddle and a belly full of yoke.

Nothin' on the altimeter but the maker's name, and that was covered in blood......

Ice is not nice...

My uncle made his mark just short of the runway in Coffeeville, KS loaded up with ice.

Kevin R. Mussack (Andys' Dad)
Miami, FL, US of A - Wednesday, February 13, 2008, at 19:32:10 (ZULU)

Jeff:

Full-length resizing for the auto is indeed the issue (and is needed). Bolt guns are another matter.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, February 13, 2008, at 22:36:13 (ZULU)

Kevin (Andy's Dad),

Back in the late 80's(?), there was a flight from Indianapolis to Chicago with a group of GM executives. They never made it. Straight into the ground from several thousand feet. Wings had iced up. Made a really, really small hole in the ground. Occasionally it's shown on those "accident invesigation" shows.

"Sublimation Kills"

Duman
Wednesday, February 13, 2008, at 23:39:24 (ZULU)

"...and a belly full of yoke"

Huh?

Ah-ha! It's like a cyclic, only different:))

Rotorwingnuts; gotta have one per;)

Joe M
Thursday, February 14, 2008, at 00:19:43 (ZULU)

We just had a guy here in Kansas in the last few days use a plane to drill a hole in the ground. Be safe, guys!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, February 14, 2008, at 00:21:06 (ZULU)

Rod That's what I figured you were refering to. Now my next step it to start caring enough about the accuracy of my AR enough to load for it. Prices made me consider it to start with. It's just that when I shoot it I usually shoot a couple hundred rounds at a time. I look at all that brass and think man that's a lot of work if I want to reload. I'll have to get a powder thrower. I don't have one now. I measure every single charge I load for my other guns. It's tedious but I'm a perfectionist. "Thats what I like to call obsesive compulsive disorder" Haha Can you reccomend one to me?

On a related subject. What's the deal with the Wolf Ammo. What do the bi-metal and steel cases do to your chamber? I read on another site some guy saying something about them messing up the barrel, but I couldn't see how that could be. I could see how they could be bad for the chamber and throat area though. Has anyone got experience with them and high volume shooting?

Two things that aren't any use to you; the sky above you, and the runway behind you. Joe, do you mean a nut to fly the rotorwing? lol That's been my opinion, but I've only got about 200hrs of whirrly bird time, and no rating. When I was learning they always yelled at me for calling the peddals, rudder peddals.lol Its the same thing but different. :-) Everybody else thinks that the cropdusters are the nuts. That's usually the first or second thing people say after I tell them what I do for a living. That or "I love to watch you guys, you guys have got to be crazy!"

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Thursday, February 14, 2008, at 16:31:16 (ZULU)

Jeff:

When reloading for a semi-auto, it's important to think-thru the workflow. Time and motion is everything, since it will be repeated a whole *bunch* of times. Discard notions of weighing individual powder charges unless you have copious amounts of unallocated free time. With a good powder measure, weighing is wasted under (say) 400 yds.

The time killer is the brass prep, not the loading itself when dealing with bottleneck rifle cartridges.

Power tools for any trimming/chamfering is critical. Dedicated tools are even better, but pricier. Giraud trimmer or similar is my next upgrade if I feel compelled to trade more money against time.

I use a spray lube which speeds up the resizing process, and gives me pretty even coverage too.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, February 14, 2008, at 18:19:55 (ZULU)

Jeff:

For .223, I'm using a Lee Loadmaster with the Lee Double Disk kit in their Deluxe Powder Measure for loading. W748, H335 and now IMR4896 as powders. (IMR4896 is a non-canister-grade powder that I jokingly think of as IMR4895SC. It's like IMR4895 with shorter granules, which lets it meter better. There's a story that goes with that if anyone cares.).

I'm using a single-stage press for brass prep, since that simplifies cleaning the lube off the case after resizing. (I use dry corn cob in a vibe tumbler to remove case lube in batches).

That also permits me to use a headspace gage on each resized case before it gets reloaded, which helps ensure functional reliability later. The alternative is to adjust the die so that it produces "generous" headspace for some of the brass. Since I'm using brass from mixed sources, this is more critical than if I was using stuff only fired in a single rifle.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, February 14, 2008, at 18:31:49 (ZULU)

Jeff,

Wolf ammo is weak in velocity, not even close to M193. That hurts terminal effectiveness. They used to be coated with clear lacquer that gets soft when very hot, and will gum up your chamber. Eventually, you wind up with a case stuck. Supposedly they now have a teflon like coating that holds up better. The lacquer is not an issue with the 7.62x39 round/AK pattern due to it's steeper body.

I also have seen a few broken AR15 extractors in class where we were shooting copious amounts of ammo. The steel case is hard on extractors.

I would rather reload than shoot Wolf. YMMV.

Looks like Millett has a pretty nice new scope out, the TRS-1. Too bad they totally shot themselves in the foot with 1/8 minute clicks instead of 1/4 or 1/2. If it weren't for that, I would have ordered two of them today considering they are priced in the Super Sniper range.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Thursday, February 14, 2008, at 21:56:12 (ZULU)

This Obama wave is creepy---fainting chippies and all. It could, I suppose, carry him into the WH in November. But I think that his wave shall crest onto the rocky shore before then....with the dems wondering "WTF were we thinking???" The guy has yet to say anything other than platitudes about who or what he is and where we should go as a nation.

My mother, OTOH, has that figured out: she let me in on her insight, "...he's the anti-Christ..." Heheh. Well, can't blame her for noticing that he is all inspiration with zero perspiration.

Too bad he understands marxism far better than the constitution...that kind of oratory with a libertarian underpinning is what this country desperately needs. Ron Paul, decent message with no delivery...Obama--decent delivery with no message. Our education system, inherent intellectual laziness, and celebrted self interest has led us to this point.

I think I'll go sharpen my battle axe II....

Joe M
Friday, February 15, 2008, at 02:10:15 (ZULU)

Joe M: The Obama wave has been manufactured by P.R. specialists.

The guy goes from Illinois State Senator to U.S. Senator from the great - if befuddled - state of Illinois, does TWO undistinguished years then decides to accept a grateful nation's highest office.

The guy has been packaged and sold like a teen idol. He may be an empty suit but he's fashionable.

CDC'
Friday, February 15, 2008, at 03:30:51 (ZULU)

I forgot to mention somthing to you guys the other day when everyone was talking about our crappy school systems and all. Well, actually it was after the talk about having a need to home school children. If you want them to get a good conservative education just bring them to my county. It'll be kinda of hard to get them into my classes all the time, but I've accepted an offer to work in the winters, and any other time I'm not flying, as a substitute teacher. What has the world come to!? I know there won't be much time for me to influence them as a sub. But who knows, maybe I'll get lucky and one of the liberal history teachers will need some type of long term personal leave. History, and possibly Civics, are the two that I can think of that are open to the most interpretation in how they are presented. I think I do a pretty good job at presentation when it comes to young adults, so hopefully I might can instill a little bit of what this country is supposed to be about. With my luck, I'll probably end up with English Comp. That would suck, so keep your fingers crossed. This might actually be fun, and be a good way to get to know they guys my daughter is wanting to date in the future. If we let her before she leaves high school. haha

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Friday, February 15, 2008, at 07:43:18 (ZULU)

"If we let her before she leaves high school."

I told my daughter no dating before she's 25yrs old... she already has that "Daddeeee!" thing down at 11.

SSG Mac
Friday, February 15, 2008, at 09:49:58 (ZULU)

Gents: Peanut is now 8 and is trying out Girl Scouts this year.

And, it is that time of year: She is selling GS cookies. These things sell themselves, really. I have a email that she and her mom drafted up---and I could send that to anyone interested. It has an attachment with pictures and an explanation of different ways to support troops overseas with shipments of cookies with specified donations.

Anyway--if anyone is interested, email me off the roster mail, and I'll forward her email with clean attachments to ya.

New guys---forgive my blatant commercial outreach:)) Some folks here remember Peanut from a difficult time some 6 years ago. Our little survivor wants to earn her way to summer camp--and has a goal of 800 boxes. Normally shy with strangers, she has sold 200+ boxes at walmart, the grocery store (where the manager asked her to please refrain---and she promptly sold him six boxes:)), altel phone company---anywhere mom drags her--she seems to sell a dozen boxes:)) The kid is stepping up. When i told her to put us down for 6 boxes of her choice---she picked one of each to send to the troops. Good choice, i thought...

Joe M
Friday, February 15, 2008, at 13:55:34 (ZULU)

OK Lets do something good for Joe's girl

Joe send me email at DMMDNLN at AOL.com

Where I can send 40.00= 10.00 for shipping, to for cookies for your daughters drive. I will send address where to ship them.

I suggest a bunch of others here do same thing. Remember this girls Daddy was gone for a long tiem protecting our freedom.

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Friday, February 15, 2008, at 17:27:19 (ZULU)

SSG Mac...

>"I told my daughter no dating before she's 25yrs old... she already has that "Daddeeee!" thing down at 11."<

HA!... I told Ruggus Rattus that he can drive at 40, and start dating at 45 (IF I approve of her ;). HE has the "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah" thing down pact. ;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, February 15, 2008, at 23:18:21 (ZULU)

Undude: I emailed ya, along with a few regulars. I don't trust email much anymore---attachments seem to be dropped or the whole thing evaporates between servers at times.

Joe M
Friday, February 15, 2008, at 23:55:33 (ZULU)

Hey Joe,

I was in line for security screening at Raleigh/Durham airport this morning with 20 or so young men and women carrying there new ruck sacks. It made me think about Blake so I thought I would ask how things are going.

By the way All of them looked so DAMM young. I bet most don't even need to shave.

JLU

Joe Udelhofen
Oconomowoc, WI, USA - Saturday, February 16, 2008, at 00:09:56 (ZULU)

Major Joe,

Count me in for the same amount of fatness as Undude. send the info to akushnir at mac dot com.

Icing really sucks, on our SAR excursions in the winter, we always get a bit of ice build up when hovering over the water for extended periods of time. Sucks cuz we have to pull the intake screens when we do that and are usually waiting for a bird to go right down the chute.

S/F

Kush

Kush
Havelock, NC, - Saturday, February 16, 2008, at 05:06:39 (ZULU)

Joe

Count me in. longrange454 at yahoo dot com

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Saturday, February 16, 2008, at 11:31:10 (ZULU)

Count me in Joe: oldbill310 at yahoo dot com

Guys, prayers please: the job of a lifetime seems to be coming my way. If it comes to pass I'll most likely meet several of you, and a lot of others you know. God opens and closes doors for us, He's in control and I'm content (but I still made my wife pinch me in the car yesterday to make sure I wasn't dreamin') One thing: taking this job would mean the end of my military career... I'm pretty sure it's worth it.

Damn, did I just write that?!?

Mac

SSG Mac
Saturday, February 16, 2008, at 18:30:26 (ZULU)

Joe,

You got my mouth watering for those chocolate coconut caramel majobs... so count me in for some too... I had to look'em up they are the Samoas, melt in your mouth good, well unless you hate coconut.

After much contemplation and go around I am going to leave the 1917 as is, maybe do a little touch up on it. Instead I am going to pick up a steven and rebarrel it to 338 for economic reasons I am going to base it off a 300 winmag. Its going to be one of the first things I plan to order after I get back and take care of a couple other prior commitments.

Mourge
Overseas, - Sunday, February 17, 2008, at 02:47:28 (ZULU)

Vole season is now open. This crummy Beeman R7 will have to do.

Joe: Tell Peanut that I'm in.

CDC'
Sunday, February 17, 2008, at 03:36:23 (ZULU)

Joe M,

Off roster email inbound.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Sunday, February 17, 2008, at 03:57:25 (ZULU)

Mourge:

Good choice on the 1917 and Stevens 200 projects. It's cheaper and easier to move in the direction of the simpler modifications when you have options. Tons of support and parts for variations on a theme on the Stevens 200. Barrel changes are "easy", getting feed rails to work for a different cartridge body is hard.

When a shooting buddy was looking to build a long-range .308 Win bolt gun, I encouraged him to use the Stevens 200.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, February 17, 2008, at 13:48:06 (ZULU)

Morgue;

If you want to borrow my barrel swapping tools let me know.

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Sunday, February 17, 2008, at 15:29:29 (ZULU)

hay to you all

from

avi

avi
haifa, israel, is - Sunday, February 17, 2008, at 20:57:50 (ZULU)

Avi: Israel has two ops credited to them since the hezbollah war in Syria. Whatever the actual facts may be---I just want to say "Thanks" for ridding the planet of a deserving asshat (and in a manner befitting his lifestyle--nice touch; poetic irony). Gotta love decisive action; we in the US quickly get squeamish about such things. It is good to have allies who, shall we say, are entirely practical about such things.

Gents: An email is forwarded to all; if you do not receive it like now, send me a quick note.

edited to add: Its the original angie-peanut email/ flyer with the address and checks payable to "G.S.s" --picture of the cookies and all that; if you sent an email to angie's account--you received this one.

I just pulled a ton of emails from the roster today:)) New orders!

Joe M
Monday, February 18, 2008, at 02:27:16 (ZULU)

Well it appears that my little buddy and his mom will be moving in with me and Pistol Packing Granny (aka Doughlady) in the next couple of weeks. His mom's (PPG's daughter) story is kinda sad in a way but needless to say she needs a financial and emotional break. Looks like me and PPG go from grandparents to parents again. Will have his little head full of mush to mess with for the near future, only problem is I can't send him home because he will be home. At 4 and a half he is really getting into doing PawPaw things. He's now got his own 'my' tools and can do fair to middlin with carpentry in his own special way. You can learn a lot about what a little kid thinks just by hanging out with them and listening for the common denominators, some of which here lately have kinda concerned me.

Between that and my own 27 year old daughter getting hitched on the 29th of this month, trigger time is going to go hell in a handbasket. Just hope I can make some matches in the next couple of months. I'll be going mainly to socialize cause I dang sure won't be shooting well if I don't get my arse behind the trigger more.

Wish me luck, Bolt headed to bed and out!

Bolt
Interesting times in........, NC, - Monday, February 18, 2008, at 03:26:25 (ZULU)

Quick Questions for the Shotgun Legal Dept. Someone please tell me the legal minimum overall length for a shotgun. And also, does the chamber count as part of the length when measureing a barel for the length law? I noticed when measuring it, that it could be cut off even with one of the ribs if the law is 18 inches and chamber is included. So is it 18 inches or 18 1/2 inches. I've heard both and need correct advise. I measured 18 1/16 from the front of the receiver to the front of one of the ribs? What should I do, give me laws and suggestions. I'm going to follow the laws, so I don't need "cut it off even with the forearm", even though I it would look better" IMHO By the way it says light contour DO NOT MODIFY. What are the reasons for that? Maybe gas system? I'm only going to be shooting High Power 00 Buck, so it should have the gas to run? Right/Wrong? If I screw up the way it runs, I can just get another cheap barrel, but I want to make it legal. Thanks. Guess that was more than a couple quick questions.

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, USofA - Monday, February 18, 2008, at 04:47:48 (ZULU)

Kosovo declares themselves a state. Serbia is not pleased, and the ruskies have denounced the move flalty stating that "this will lead to conflict." NATO's KFOR mission is stepping up patrols, and the euroweenieunion is meeting to rend their clothing and gnach their teeth. If the shooting starts, expect hair pulling and wailing to follow.

Interesting times indeed.

Joe M
Monday, February 18, 2008, at 06:20:11 (ZULU)

The folks in Bekeley, Ca. seem to be the kinda lowlifes that would hang banners and build a mansion for the first son of a bitch that wanted to invade our country.

Makes me want to fucking puke.

Wonder who they're gonna call on during the next natural disaster? I hope none of them ever need an airlift, evacuation, or a Mexican revolution put down.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, February 18, 2008, at 10:20:40 (ZULU)

We went skiing yesterday. It was all I could do to (almost?) keep up with my kids. I was pleased with them.

Joe M: If Serbia/Kosavo gets too out of hand, the Euro-wee-wees can threaten the use of the Ultimate Weapon: The Strongly Worded Statement.

It scares the piss out of me just thinking about it.

Bolt: Best wishes on working with the little guy.

CDC'
Monday, February 18, 2008, at 10:34:04 (ZULU)

Jeff Cooper - A couple years back, the local prosecuter's office had the exact same question. NJ law states 18". They arrived at the conclusion that you drop a cleaning rod down the barrel with the chamber closed. Mark the point where the rod exits the muzzle and measure the rod length. If it was 18" or over, the weapon was OK.

I'm not sure if this is an official method, and I'm not sure if the laws where you live are different. I'm just sharing what I know.

medicjim
Monday, February 18, 2008, at 13:54:29 (ZULU)

Jeff...

Cut it to 18.25" and give yourself at least 1/4" more than 18" to be on the safe side.

Remember Randy Weaver - his was 17 and 7/8", and his wife and son died because of it.

FieldComm...

Bravo and I have been chatting about Field Comm radios for the last week, and some new stuff is available to the civilians.

Uniden has some FRS radios that have all the private call and encryption/decryption stuff that has been around for a while, but they have just come out with a set of radios that any user in your group can hit a button and move the whole group to a new frequency (of 22 freqs).

This means that your group can change frequencies every sentence if necessary... so if you are on a S&R, and don't want the public to get in the way, or the "media" to follow, this is a "good thing".

http://www.uniden.com/products/index.cfm?cat=family%20radios

Look on the right side of the page and click on the numbers below.

GMR1588-2CK, GMR1595-2CK, GMR1558-2CK and GMR1048-2CK

also... spread spectrum has come to the low price hand held talkie... with SpredSpec, 100,000 users can use the same band at the same time, and not interfere with each other... and it is monitor PROOF!!!

No one can intercept SpredSpec... and the prices are in the reasonable range of $80 to $130 for a pair

http://www.trisquare.us/index.htm

The Uniden radios work in the 460 Mcs band and the SpredSpec radios work in the 900 mcs band.

Radios in these bands have ranges of from one to two miles in New England woods, to ~15 miles out in flat prairie (line of sight).

I like the idea of being able to change frequencies fast, or have radios that are not monitor-able.

I'm not paranoid.. well, maybe a little.

Ok, ok... I can see the black helis out the window, and they ARE out to get me, and I want to be able to talk to my crew on the sly ;)))))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, February 18, 2008, at 16:36:05 (ZULU)

re: shotgun barrel length

from memory: BATFE says cocked action, measuring rod from breach face to muzzle. 18" is the (US federal) legal limit for shotguns. Most mfgr spec 18.5 to ensure some margin. Also means you can later re-crown w/o sweating creating a dreaded "sawed off" shotgun.

If I was cutting, I would add some extra for just that reason. Measure twice, cut once doesn't just apply to carpentry :-)

There is also a (US federal) 26" overall length spec too. Not usually an issue with a semi-auto and a "normal" stock.

Shorter barrel can be a function issue with a semi-auto and lighter loads (gas pressure level and duration). If it can function ok with a longer barrel and light loads, it will probably be fine with a shorter barrel and heavier loads.

As for the contour, most shotgun barrels are made with choking integral to the barrel. If you chop them the choke goes away. Likely means you'll be created a cylinder bore. If that is acceptable then it should not be an issue.

probably several threads here on this very topic:

http://www.thehighroad.org (or click my name)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, February 18, 2008, at 16:48:37 (ZULU)

Thanks Lito and Medicjim. I'm assumeing "not a good word" the chamber was empty. Done that way it puts 18 behind the rib, so If I cut it in front of the rib I'll have Lito's extra. The Weaver incident is what I'm thinking about. I just saw an interview again with him and his remaining daughter not too long ago. Not to mention I've been reading UC.

I'm ashamed to say I haven't finished it, but I've been caught up studying for licenses. Every time I get one, someone offers a job that requires another. All these jobs are for next winter, so I figure I might as well get all the licenses I can. I want to make sure I have the right one for the best job still on the table next fall. I'll be a flying, school bus, hazmat, triple trailor, container driving fool before it's all over. As long as it's not in instrument conditions I can get it there. Oddly enough, the instrument rating is the one that I ought to get the most. If I had that, I could go to work in Columbia on the DEA's drug erradication program. According to my friends that work there, the rumor is that they'll be transitioning from 802's and OV-10s' to A10's sometime in the future. How they're gonna convert them to spray planes is beyond me, but I'd love to be there when it happens.

Is anyone sure about the shotgun overall length law? Laws are laws and and I don't want to get busted for either one, overall length or barrel length. I'm planning on cutting the stock too. Does anyone know of an after market manufacturer that makes 11-87 barrels that are 18 1/4 and have screw in chokes. 21 is the shortest I've found without being rifled for slugs.

Is anyone here good with Photoshop. I'd like to get a picture put together of an AT802 that looks like it's pulling three gas trailors. I can send you the pictures of the 802 and probably the trailor if you can put them together. It'd be great for the office wall and my business card. I need to incorprate a school bus and Trailways in there too. LOL Next stop Tanks, Ships, and Subs.

Eddited to add: Thanks Rod, You got that in while I was typing.

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Monday, February 18, 2008, at 17:37:20 (ZULU)

Kittywacker,

Back in the day (late '80s) I got a terrifying lesson on signal intercept. I came away from the experience seriously paranoid about radiating in ANY spectrum. My ambition became to be the groundpounder version of a nuke sub: a hole in the woods that could only be identified as the abscense of a signature.

News of the new radios is welcome, but if I thought someone where looking for me, I'd still maintain radio silence (and probably powered down).

...Back to planning the next cache;))

Bill

SSG Mac
Monday, February 18, 2008, at 18:01:16 (ZULU)

Jeff,

You don't say what brand or model shotgun. If it's a Remmie 1100 I know it will function with a 21" bbl. because I have one in 20 gauge and a pal has one in 12 gauge. Both are unmodified factory bbls.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Monday, February 18, 2008, at 19:43:30 (ZULU)

Lito,

There are alot of guys asking about you on 6mmbr.com,was there some sort of a problem?

Jon Kujawa
Monday, February 18, 2008, at 21:26:44 (ZULU)

It's a Remington 1187. I just finished cutting and it and it works fine with the high brass stuff, but not the light loads. Since it's going to sit behind the door with 00 buck I'll be OK as long as I'm not attacked by a covey of rabbid quail. It gives about a 2ft pattern at 15yds with 2 3/4 #2's. I didn't want to waste my buckshot, but I will get some extras and give it a try next time I hit the gun store. I'm also considering leaving it loaded with 3in goose loads after reading about buck penetrating through walls and hitting people on the other side. The #2's & BB's ought to do a good enough job at the close ranges inside my house. In TN we're allowed to defend property, so if they're outside I'll grab the AR. If I can't get to it, and then get to them, then they're probably not a threat to me and will just get lucky and get away. You gotta love Tennessee. Our carry laws aren't consealed, and we can carry anything and as many as we want without having to qualify with them all. About the only laws I don't agree with is the one about not being able to carry handguns while hunting with anything other than a handgun. And, we can't hunt deer with anything .50 cal. or larger for some reason. Except for when muzzle loading. Personally I was really looking forward to nocking one over with some type of 50BMG. lol. I guess I'll just have to be happy with the 338LM or that new 50 necked down to 416.

Jeff Cooper
Gadsden, TN, - Monday, February 18, 2008, at 21:27:52 (ZULU)

SSG Mac: Your paranoia is justified.

There are people who can locate transmitters using spread spectrum modulation techniques. Encrypted same-same. You don't need to be able to decode the transmission to find the transmitter - or the receiver.

Your digital watch emits radio frequency energy too, as does every other digital device.

Fortunately, our current foes are relatively unsophisticated with respect to elint.

We are unlikely to be so lucky with all of our potential future foes.

The question is not whether I'm paranoid, but whether I'm paranoid enough.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, February 18, 2008, at 21:45:49 (ZULU)

Hey Jon-K...

Now that you are back, we ain't gonna let you go - we need someone to beat up and pick on ;))))

Yeah, I was getting tons of real nasty e-mails from a bunch of jerks that got caught in their own BS. When someone tells me that their 223 is as fast as a 22-250, they better duck - and there are about 8 or 10 guys that didn't like getting their weenies caught in the screen door.

They started e-mailing me with ugly remarks that had nothing to do with shooting - seems that they thought the site belonged to them.

I got tired of the nastiness - it wasn't about shooting... just nasty name calling.

There wasn't enough good stuff going on with that site, so it wasn't worth fighting over - a lot of info that is passed on to the new shooters there is pure, unadulterated...

... bullshit.

I'm surprised that someone misses me - usually, when I leave a site, they throw a party with free eats and beer ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, February 18, 2008, at 22:43:43 (ZULU)

I can take alot just as long as you post some good info from time to time.

Jon Kujawa
Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 01:23:27 (ZULU)

Bravo and I talked for a loooong time tonight (and I wonder where my cell minutes go??).

He's definitely a piece of work!

I had a 40-XB/ss in 22-250 that I shot out on dog towns, and my once love affair with the 22-250 has long ago burned out.

So I sent the riffle back to Green Faerie for a new 6mm Rem (aka .244) barrel - got a call that it will be here in a week or two.

This has been a good month. I got the Rat, and a new stick all at the same time.

The barrel is being drilled for one of those loooong Unertl 2" Ultra Varmint scopes (good ones are going for $1400 on eBay now).

So this is one of my spring projects.

The Rat and I are filing the emancipation papers on Thursday, and dropping off copies to the "Ex" on Friday... so she will have a weekend to stew over them before she can call her lawyer - there's nothing she can do about it (HA!... Double HA!!).

This year I will get back to serious shooting again.

This summer, I'm thinking of finely doing a book on shooting stuff. Not the "same ol same ol", but something that covers the crap that the others don't and peels back the layers of BS that keep floating around. There will be a lot on shooting optics, and loading (without loads). I don't know if there is a market for it - maybe it'll be good to just get it off my chest.

Buy the way... some years back, the Tasco Super Duper Sniper Scope, (now by SWFA), was reputed to have been bought by the Navy for the SEALS. Something about a deal that the SEALS got 65% of the scopes made, and the "public" got the rest.

A few weeks ago, I had cause to check this out, and called the Navy "Contracts and Procurement" offices, and gave them the "contract" number that SWFA keeps sprouting out.

When I asked the head of the Navy "Contracts and Procurement" office, she asked what the contract was for, and I told her that they were for Tasco sniper scopes... she just giggled!

Turns out that the contract number does not exist in the Navy.

It further turns out that the Navy never bought any of the scopes - the lady checks the contract number, and it matches the number group that is assigned to DARPA.

A few were bought by DARPA, which is a govt evaluation group (kinda like "Consumer's Union"), and they found that the scopes sucked.

So... if someone offers you the SWFA Super Duper Sniper Scope - that is used by the real Navy SEALS, pass on it!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 02:34:58 (ZULU)

'lito,

I'll take an autographed copy...

Sharon

(Good on ya & Ruggus Rattus!)

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 03:00:36 (ZULU)

lito;

Put me on the list for a book if you decide to do it. I could make good use of an actual "been there-done that" book.

Jody Calhoun
Saraland, AL-Heart of Dixie, USA - Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 03:04:20 (ZULU)

Lito: Hope you do a hard back---they seem to stick around longer. Here's a thought...when you get the manuscript ready for first try at publishing...let us know. Then, we'll flood the pubhouses with "pre-order" questions. This kills two birds with a single stone (I bet you remember those days, too): One, the interest will tip a contract in your favor; two, the interest will also lead to a wider publishing on the first run...as well as the hard back release for us collectors.

Life is a game...play to win:)

Joe M
Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 03:31:52 (ZULU)

Lito:

+1 on the book :-)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 03:32:53 (ZULU)

Lito

+1 more on the Book

Joe,

couple emails inbound to the appropriate email.

Jody,

I appreciate the offer to let me barrow the tools, a good buddy locally (SD) was saying he had the kit to work'em over if I am remembering rightly, so I think its covered but I will let you know for sure. again its appreciated.

Rod,

You were saying that getting the feed rails to work on a different cartridge might cause some headaches, would this be the case if all that is being done is necking a 300 winmag up to a 338 winmag?

Thanks gents

Mourge
Overseas, - Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 04:21:59 (ZULU)

'Lito - Can I have a copy of your book as well? :)

Finally decided to let Marius know that I could no longer remember my password and get back on line here. He was very understanding and only mumbled something about old age. :)

Doing the same old same old but with new ranges, more students, and a revamped course.

Joe M. - You get my return email, I have had problems with bounce back here lately and never know. Kosovo could be a bad precedent, think in terms of someplace closer wanting to become a free state or return to "mother" country.

Will drop by more often to see what is going on. You guys be sure and continue to play nice now. :)

Rick B./Longrange1947
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 04:58:47 (ZULU)

Rick B: "Will drop by more often to see what is going on."

Good.

CDC'
Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 05:28:50 (ZULU)

Rickster...

Good atcha!

1947 - HA!, I knew you was a young puppy all the time!

Did you hear that our famous resident killer, "Tigger-twenney-too" has given up his sniping for hire business (aka "I will snipe people for food" ;), and has gone to nursing school?

God help those poor folks that go to the hospital in Idaho... but then maybe he is gonna be a nurse in a "Nursing home". where he can clean the drooling oatmeal off of the bibs ;)))

And to think... his lawyer never got in touch with me about that law suit :(.

Drop by more often.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 09:29:33 (ZULU)

Kahles Multi Zero Scope

I need a scope for my 243. Any comments good or bad about this scope, i've got a line on one at a good price.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 13:13:19 (ZULU)

Catshooter,

I got that rifle done that I was talking about last year,heres the link

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=2166544.

Also I to would like a copy of the book.

Jon Kujawa
Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 14:26:59 (ZULU)

Mourge:

Feed rails becomes an issue when the cartridge *body* dimensions are changed. Neck up/down changes would be much less of an issue, except on feed ramps. Since feed ramps tends to be a barrel artifact, they would be updated if you're changing the bore diameter.

Ditto on bolt-face dimensions.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 16:37:19 (ZULU)

Kosovo: Worth watching, this is not your ordinary side-show. Russia and China understandably refuse to acknowledge the independence (think Chenchnya and Taiwan for reasons to be down on separtist movements; these high-profile ones aren't the only ones either that they contend with). Europe and the US have a foot in the door there with KFOR, but public sentiment on the continent is barely able to stomach the so-called good war in Afghanistan, so a new war may or may not be doable politically. The Serbs, and you bet the Russians, are calculating the chance of intervention and reinforcement vs. a retreat of NATO into Macedonia. Nationalism tends to make such calculations seem crazy to the outside observer too:)) That wildcard of passion makes the craziness of of Seb intervention go from unlikely to 50/50 IMHO.

So, WTF is the issue here for us? A-stan, for one: NATO does occupy 3/4s of the country for us. If there is a war in the Balkans, and the euroweenies run out of pointed criticisms and UN resolutions and decide to actually (god forbid) do something meaningful---expect the a-stan mission to quickly dwindle, leaving us holding the bag. There is a cascade effect, and the hit will be on our treasury--which has its hands full maintaining the liquidity of the US banking system right now. BTW, we have troops in that new country as well---troops we'd be hard=pressed to reinforce. And would anyone really push for a stand in this region? Think WWI for a minute...and think about facing Russian troops as well. They too already have their foot in this door.

Yeah, this seemingly meaningless little province has the potential to cause all manor of disproportionate trouble for the world. The entire ingredients at play will make one hell of a stew of miscalculation. Like i said--it is worth watching. The folks who jumped up (us included) to recognize the new proclamation have staked out a position they may regret. At stake here is an entire foreign policy intitative called promting democracy: If we cheer a movement one day, then sit on our hands and watch it get crushed the next--we have no further credibility anywhere--including the middle east, and AQ will surely use any hesitation to make their case. |At a time where we are stepping away from the surge, this could effect the relative success of that---see? Lots of pitfalls here, and wider than meets the eye.

FWIW, an easy case can be made that anti-war/ pacifist movements can and do cause wars thru encouraging those who may have been more cautious. If the Serbs and ruskies decide that public anti-war sentiment is a factor--they will launch. Heheh. Put that in your peace pipe and smoke it, herr Ted K, D. Durban, Nancy, Reid, Osamabama et-al; show them bad guys our lack of resolve and desire to cut and run! That oughtta deter them! Hahahaha. Now that is irony! And youz guys know how much i love irony!

Onthe "who the hell knows" column: Pervez lost his coalition in parliment, the opposition (two main parties) got the majority in early returns. That effectivly divides Pak on whether or not the terrs are good or bad, and changes how effectively they can deal with them. Their nuclear arsenal adds to the excitement, eh?

But damn...this has "suck" written all over it. The relatively tame announcement of Castro stepping down gets all the media--and it is the least worrisome thing going on anywhere.

Rick: I got your emails--I was waiting until i had something important to say (being retired, that takes a while) before I bugged ya again---out of concern that your time is precious these days. I'll get ya an update out on Blake, his goals, and why he is angling the way he is for an assignment.

I've been shooting my .44 too much lately...but dang, it is a tackdriver! Quite possibly the most fun handgun in the house:))

Joe M
Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 17:11:17 (ZULU)

Question: The Army restructured, and we largely ignored this here. One thing that came from this is that the snipers, who once were sprinkled throughout the TF, are now housed in one Battalion in the brigade team (at least in the 82d). As this was occuring as i was exiting, I did not pay attention to the details (other than I thought it is an idea long past its time). So, how have these changes improved or worsened things for our snipers? It is early yet--but the writing will already be on the wall for these guys.

"Breaking the Phalanx" was a heretical book a decade ago. Now, while studiously avoiding the connection--the army has done what was recommended. The phalanx still exists (just look for any GO slots that went away), but the new structure has lessened divisional importance and time will continue this. As the autonomous briigade was once the stuff of controversery, so too is the viability of the Air Force as a separate branch of service; that discussion is simmering around DoD backchannels as we speak. Largely brought on by the experiences of the GWOT--the AF does not play well with others on so many levels. For those who think this is the "usual rumors"--ask the guy who wrote 'Phalanx what he thinks of sea-changes.

But to stay on topic: A quick doctrinal look at the new sniper MTOE and deployment within the TF would be enlightening. Are they pure DS or GS? Mixed? Funding separately or from their dedicated unit? The good, the bad and the ugly; someone with knowledge could write a good article for our library here:))

Hey SSG Mac, Rick: Youz guys got any input? Mac was an ACR guy--he has seen this new army somewhere before, eh?

Joe M
Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 18:59:15 (ZULU)

Joe, All,

Limited input to give on this. Things ARE changing, but it seemed to me to depend a great deal on the Field Grade in charge. There are a lot of Field Grades learning the usefulness of snipers and thier capabilities, but there're just as many who still don't have a clue (about that and other things).

Two years ago when I last observed this directly the snipers were still decentralized to the various units. In my own org the only representation was generous DM training in all the line units.

I'm very interested to hear what ohters have to say on this.

Bill

SSG Mac
Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 22:00:51 (ZULU)

Jeff Cooper - Shotgun Barrel Length

IIRC, the NRA Firearms Fact book says the barrel of a shotgun is measured from the barrel tip to the action, not to the bolt face, since the length of the cartridge can vary in the same shotgun. In a rifle, it's from the end of the barrel to the bolt face with the bolt closed. You might check this out at the NRA website, or BATF.

With the possible trouble you may find yourself in, why not buy a short barrel from Brownell's?

Duman
Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 23:46:03 (ZULU)

'Lito,

I couldn't imagine going from the top of the game to wipin' ass in 2 years..Nothing against it, just couldn't imagine it..:P Definitely not my gig..

Got an email incoming sometime to you regarding a few things, all good..One thing involves the pressure cabbage, ha..

Just been playing with the new remmy triggers today..Not sure what I think of them, much the same, but, I don't know..Why couldn't they have come up with a better design on the bolt stop and release..I haven't worked one over yet, but have one rifle set aside can probably do so. Anything in particular should be watchful for? I'd like to adjust it to the 'next level'..

Nothing new here, weather's been good. Headed up to Daytona last weekend for a spell, and it were mayhem. Traffic report said leave now or you'll never get home, so took their advice came home and got some fishin done. Caught a lot of seaweed, so if I were a vegetarian would have done well. Couple small snook as well, let them back to the briny to get bigger. Nice thing it was only about 40 feet from my front door. Watched part of the race at the local..Think I enjoyed the craftsman truck race Friday more, though the end of the 500 was ok..Rednecks got a kick out of it anyway.

later

JR
Brevard County, FL, USA - Tuesday, February 19, 2008, at 23:46:26 (ZULU)

email inadvertenly sent without subject name lito....

JR
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 00:58:41 (ZULU)

Er, guys...

A male RN pretty much can go anywhere and pull in 70K...you can work a year in Alaska, one in Hawaii, maybe try out one of the Virgin Islands... the cert has some portability to other nations as well.. not a bad place to land after two years of school... and the potential to build on it is endless... the best gig I've seen is Nurse Anesthetist... the guy I talked to worked from 8-3 on weekdays and was pulling very good $$

I went through exactly the same amount of training and more clinical time to get Paramedic (much more abuse too)... I regret the decision now. RN would have been a much better long term backup.

medicjim
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 01:47:27 (ZULU)

shotgun barrel length

From ATF web site:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/chapter2.pdf

"The length of the vast majority of shotgun barrels is measured from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the breech on a line parallel to the axis of the bore."

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 01:58:31 (ZULU)

Hey sniperdudes ...

Been busy. Lotsa homicides here lately.

Port Arthur, Texas. What a shit hole.

But !!! ... Made 76 THOUSAND DOLLARS for GI Joe at Shot.

God bless Bruce and LouAnn Robinson.

Hope you are all well.

out

brian k. sain
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 02:10:55 (ZULU)

"Insane..."

Ya dun gud!

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 14:37:43 (ZULU)

Back to lasers...

There were some posts a few weeks ago about high powered laser pointers.

I had asked around and left a few messages, and got a call back a few minutes ago.

There are NO restrictions on purchasing lasers... you can buy a 1,000,000 watt laser if you have the jack!

Most of the little hand held class room laser pointers are 5mw (milliwatt) but the ones that were talked about on the thread were 350 milliwatt - that seemed high to me, but it turns out that they are legal (though they are very hazardous to the eye, if looked at directly).

If anyone has that website, I would appreciate the url again, I lost all my (5,000+) bookmarks in a crash of this shitty Windows 'puter :(

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 14:51:35 (ZULU)

Lito,

The link was: http://www.wickedlasers.com/

We had some laser welders at Hydra-Matic, they were made by Spectra-Physics. I think they were in the 5KW range, we used them for welding clutch housings for transmissions. When everything was tuned, they made beautiful welds. Of course, the laser system (at that time) was nearly as big as a house.

Duman
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 16:20:47 (ZULU)

I know there are good video feeds on youtube on how to make a laser.

Might be worth checking out.

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 17:24:44 (ZULU)

"I know there are good video feeds on youtube on how to make a laser."

Which leaves me with a mental image of Wile E. Coyote, genius, huddled over his ACME Laser 5000 do-it-yourself kit.

Joe M
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 20:22:31 (ZULU)

I'm envisionong a high enough powered laser in a LRF that you could bombard the other guy's scope and blind him. Why THE HELL don't our guys have something like this? It'd be cool if it was hot enough to singe the hair off a coyote's ass.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 21:00:55 (ZULU)

Travis,

We do have lasers. So do the Soviets, Chinese, and several others. It is an insidious weapon, and is probably banned by several treaties/agreements (for what that's worth). Many glasses/goggles now have some form of "laser protection" statement, but Lito would know more about that stuff.

There has to be a real good reason to deploy a weapon like that, because payback would be hell.

Duman
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 21:11:12 (ZULU)

re: DYI lasers

Trust me, with the price of all the good commercial stuff,

you don't want to be bothered.

If the price bothers you, you can get cheap HK from here:

http://www.dealextreme.com/products.dx/category.911

Cheap applies to both build quality and price.

30mw green $25

Don't know about US import regs, so don't order a bunch of units in a single order you can't afford to lose...

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 22:04:21 (ZULU)

Thanks Larry!

My guys kick ass.

DUMAN: Dude ... did you get your wallet business straightened out?

briank. sain
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 22:16:22 (ZULU)

We have played with lasers as blinding weapons since the 70's, at least. A fully weaponized system was fielded on a Bradley chassis during ODS but not used AFAIK. We had this discussion a few years back and there's all sorts of cool stuff out there, but most development has been slowed by treaty issues banning blinding lasers. Similar situation involving NFA weapons development in the US, as well as tanks, etc due to end of Cold War. That said, there are routinely incidents with China/Russia/others involving lasers and aircraft or other US platforms. To the point where blocking/ attenuating the most common laser wavelengths is a requirement for all pilot headgear these days. The required optical densities are not great for unaided eyesight, it's when you start using large optical windows(lenses) that you start dealing with large amounts of energy. For 50mm lenses, the old AN/GVS-5 that Lito has is dangerous(under ideal atmo conditions) to something like 10km IIRC. I used to deal with this more often, but improvement in the reciever end of LRF's has made huge outputs unneeded. So most modern .mil LRF's are eyesafe, even for the stupid. There was/is some interesting development out there, but it's all proprietary/classified. We had this discussion a few years back too.

If you think that ANY RF transmissions can't be monitored and decrypted, you're "unwise." A few monthes ago, some DOJ/DOD type dude made some statements about people having to shift their expectations of privacy. If you get past the outrage and read between the lines of that statement, you can make some broad assumptions about the state of our intercept/decrypt capabilities.

That oughta get the tinfoil hat crowd good and spun up:)

So I guess nobody has done any 7.62x39 heavy(180+gn) bullet stuff? I bought 4K of Yugo 175gn FMJBT's(M118SB equivilent) for practice ammo and it might make interesting suppressed Hague legal ammo.

S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 23:02:59 (ZULU)

InSain,

Yeah, I reported the wallet lost/stolen to the convention center apes. They acted like it never happened before. Got everything cancelled and re-issued. I wanted to stay longer, but thought it prudent to get home, and start the process of getting squared away.

Duman
Wednesday, February 20, 2008, at 23:29:41 (ZULU)

Sure is a strange political season:)) I watched Mr. Osamabama give a rather long speech last night--and I swear, there were folks in the crowd a givin' him the "amen" brother! Heheh; his gathering are what is strange, actually. Talk about an emotive candidacy--even a staunch supporter and senator couldn't name a single public service accomplishment his guy gets credit for. It just "feels" right. He could keep it going--without having any light shone upon his agenda (decidedly socialist) and waltz into the whitehouse--but I rather doubt he gets a pass. So, my prediction is that the day after the convention, an entire party will wake up and say "WTF were we thinking?" Which is exactly the point: No one on his bandwagon is doing anything but feeling it. No thinking needed!

Go ahead and nominate this leftist neophyte, you morons. Unless McPlain is brain dead, he will win. damn. The game is stacked: We lose no matter who wins...

Joe M
Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 01:26:05 (ZULU)

DUMAN: Pal I felt bad for you. went looking for you but had already bailed.

Forgot who but somone came by and told me you had gone.

We were short handed and I only had six guys.

Too much for me to keep track of.

When I asked ... he said you had already bailed ... what a f23cked up trip pal.

Sorry.

See you next year?

brian k. sain
Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 03:22:32 (ZULU)

Snipers are being pooled and then de-centralized and then pooled again. They should be centralized as the enhances overall training and support. AS far as the support given form sniper to the unit it is a mix of DS and GS. Depending on the mission and Field Grade employing and deploying them. As a general rule of thumb, planning should start at the highest level, with final planning occurring at eh operational level and they should be deployed with the "operational unit" not by the higher. This prevents mis step, cross pollination of the mission and left not knowing right. The biggest problem is that too many officers, regardless whether company, field, or General Grade, do not understand employment and deployment of snipers. There age not any good schools that teach this art. It is learned through experience, and as all know, that is what you get right AFTER you need it. Many of the young snipers that do know and understand employment and deployment are not being given a chance to mentor the leaders in employment and deployment and thus a learning opportunity is being missed. This is not only sad, it is in many cases criminal. When a sniper team is sent back to the same place repeatedly, even after the snipers have complained it is not safe, and that team is hit by an IED, or an ambush, then that is criminal.

As to the point of your question Joe, the snipers need to be placed just as the recon assets are placed, under the S2/3 with full support and intel. They should be an asset that can be sent out in DS missions to support an operational unit whether that unit is a Platoon needing over watch, a company in the attack, or a movement to contact. The control is exerted by the operational unit and not the "mother unit". They can be used in GS missions as force protection for the unit overall but care must be taken that they are not misused and soon become glorified body guards. The DMs can give some DS to the squads in some missions but there is a lose of capabilities in many cases where DMs are used when they should use snipers and vice versa.

"I know there are good video feeds on youtube on how to make a laser."

Metacafe also shows how to start fires with the little classroom pointers by taking the safety off of them. Oh yeah, Wile E. Coyote alright. :)

Travis/Duman - The Soviets employed and still do under Mother Russia a counter sniper weapon that is a low yield laser until it detects a lens reflection, at which time it will go ballistic. They have had them since the 70s that I know of. While there are treaties that ban this stuff from use does not mean it ain't. Do not look at Electro optical gear if you can recognize it.

Joe - Even the MSM is starting to wake up to the emptiness of the Obama campaign. There are now political cartoons and pundits already starting the "what the f**k were we thinking" portion of awakening. I find it humorous that a guy only talks about change and how we can all get along if he is elected and all the sheeple jump on board. Oh well, that is what happens when the main population have ceased to have life experiences due to TV and computers. They live vicariously through the lives of make believe actors. And those very actors, who live in a make believe world, seem to act as if their opinion is more important then yours.

Dam, long post sorry guys. STFU now. :)

Rick B.
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 04:04:28 (ZULU)

BKS:

Had a friend (who was attending SHOT) purchase a set of the new challenge coins for me from your booth. I'm scheduled to connect with him at an IPSC match on Sunday.

Congratulations on the successful funds raising event.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 04:26:10 (ZULU)

Rick: So this administrative collection of the snipers in the R&S battalion is a step in the right direction. On leader knowledge: The underlying assumption is "how hard can this possibly be?!!" and therefore, why bother listening to a peon about some arcane philosophy when "all I (the leader) need to do is position a rifleman who happens to have an extended range." The ignorant, as is often the case, are the last to realize their ignorance. OK, I am speaking from my own limited experience in dealing with a handful of HQs personally--YMMV. Under-utilized is the chief problem as I saw it, with sniper teams used as tower guards or in standard static positions. I attributed this mainly to a fear of casualties, and had a deep understanding of that motivation myself: I feared being one here and there as well:)) Responsibility for another's well being is that-- times ten. I kinda dealt with that one too, and could forgive much when it comes to being smart about joe's fate. But at the same time--the repetitive deployment to the same hide is not so forgivable. And that is where the education aspect comes in. The problem then is convincing the masses they need education. As it stands, they scoff at such a petty suggestion.

"joe" is used to describe troopies; any confusion over my label is coincidental:))

In the glacial way of the army, the sniper platoon will develop one LT into a reasonably knowledgable guy, and the Squad Leaders will be used, eventually, as SMAs augmenting supported unit HQs...much like the impression a certain Marine friend gave me on their methodology. A ballsy BC may even give this Squad Leader veto authority over the supported CO's employment tactics, or at least to make damned sure the Captains know the BC's absolute faith in the SL's abilities to deploy these assets. The SL is of course the senior sniper himself on the team--though not necessarily deployed unless shorthanded (ok, so that means "always).

I heard this new structure from my son's recruiter--and thought that maybe it will help fix some of the issues we've kicked around since forever. I think this is a great start--and not just from a planning and training perspective.

Of course, the downside is "owned" vs "borrowed" troops. Think Ranger companies in Korea---meat for the grinder and other unsavory suicide missions.

Don't discount that "throw away|" mentality--I know of an instance where Patreusthe Great almost fell into that trap. Heheh, why risk a 500 man battalion when you have an A-team lying around? Too funny:)) The Captain was neither amused nor intimidated, and the greatness of this particular GO is his willingness to hear dissent and weigh the arguments. Not all my commissioned breathren are given to such weakness:)) And that is the problem...

Joe M
Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 04:43:50 (ZULU)

Edited for content

Mourge
Overseas, - Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 05:52:10 (ZULU)

[This post was put together during another bout of insomnia. I hope you gentlemen will indulge me.]

Joe M: "The Captain was neither amused nor intimidated, and the greatness of this particular GO is his willingness to hear dissent and weigh the arguments."

Iliad Book 14 [Agamemnon - facing defeat - conferring with his commanders]

""But come now, let's agree

to what I propose. Let's drag down those ships

drawn up in line closest to the surf

and pull them all into the sacred sea,

moor them there with stones in deeper water,

until the coming of immortal night—

which may prevent the Trojans' fighting.

Then we can shift the other ships. To flee

from ruin, even at night, brings no shame.

It's better to escape one's own destruction—

to run off—than let it overtake you."

"In response to this, Odysseus scowled and said:

""Son of Atreus, how can such words as these

come from your mouth? I'm finished with you.

I wish you ruled some other army,

some useless men, and were not our commander.

Zeus sees to it that from our youthful days

to our old age we must grind away

at wretched war, till, one by one, we die.

Are you really willing to leave Troy,

city of wide streets, for whose sake we've borne

so many evils? You'd better keep that quiet—

another Achaean man may hear the news,

learn what you’ve proposed in words no man

should ever let pass through his mouth at all,

no man whose heart has any understanding

of what's appropriate to say, no one

who is a sceptred king whom men obey—

as many as those Argive troops you lead.

From what you've said, I think you've lost your mind.

In the middle of a fight, you tell us now

to drag our well-decked ships down to the sea,

so that, though Trojans may be winning now,

they'd get what they most pray for realized—

the complete annihilation of us all.

For once we drag our ships into the sea,

Achaeans then will never go on fighting—

the whole time they'll be looking over here

and pulling out from battle. Then your plan,

you leader of the army, will destroy it."

"Agamemnon, king of men, replied:

""Odysseus,

that harsh rebuke of yours has stung my heart.

But I'm not the man to tell Achaea's sons

to drag our well-decked ships into the sea

if they're not willing. But show me someone

with a better plan than mine—young or old—

I'll welcome it.""

That's a leader.

CDC'
Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 09:56:20 (ZULU)

Sniper organization & employment,

So collecting snipers together in a platoon (company?) formation under the R&S Bat is the current move, and you guys see this as the way to go? It sounds to me a lot like the Vietnam era organization. Not that that makes it bad, just that there's president. There'd be advantages obvious even to my eyes, but let me ask a steering question:

I've been concerned before now that the Army is once again organizing to fight THIS war, and loosing it's capabilities for a different type (or scope) of engagement. Currently we're all about fighting the Small War, which is a good capability in itself, but what happens if we get into an all-up war with someone that has staying power? (Lite, mobile formations are great until you NEED an ACR)

Reference the sniper's org, how does that play in a different type of conflict? Joe, CDC and you other commissioned types, shouldn't the Service schools be teaching SOMETHING about task organization beyond counting how many trucks you've got warm bodies to man? (They've got the kiddies for four years, and yet I keep having to teach map reading. 2LT+map=BAD JUJU)

The book, Shooter, describes the Marines employing snipers in the offence as dispersed force multipliers with the lead elements. Does this play into the consolidated structure we're talking about?

I'm asking this to spur (Cavalry!) further analysis & comment, not to critisize (except for LTs and maps).

SSG Mac
MOLON LABE, - Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 12:02:17 (ZULU)

Bill: If you give the snipers out organically to all the companes, they are watered down for their training for one--but employment becomes an uneven affair--based on the saavy of the commanders. A big lump of them sitting all alone requires commanders to think about them; who will get them and why for each op. That by itself tends to improve how they will be employed. Now, instead of "budget, rifle company" coming down for the snipers to try to lobby a couple of dimes from the NBC sergeant---you will have Brigade apportioning with the full knowledge of snipers getting a cut (or intentionally underfunding them by name). The brigade commander can, at various times, operate them as he pleases in a GS role, within a company battle space with brigade control, or as a 'OPCON" where the supported unit gives them a mission by no details and cannot split or otherwise misuse them. Hell; operationally, this is not a bad idea at all except where I mentioned before. And, a good team will extend brigade-wide, negating that tendancy to misuse borrowed troopers.

Teaching LTs how to read a map is no different than teaching privates. You show them a map, a compass and a protractor. Then you explain how they work. Then you send them off to a unit and the NCOs take over the long process of making them "get it." By doing it, over and over, they eventually catch on to the difficult-to-teach art of "seeing" terrain from the map. No school is long enough to do that, nor can it be. It is the same for everything else (unit budget management, training management cycles, PT programs, maintenance managment, concepts of defense, raids, ambushes, deliberate attack, envelopments, blahblahblah)---at what point do you say "enough" with an expensive school house, and fall back on your institutional knowledge?

Now, the school house class that is missing is where the young LT is told in no uncertain terms that he is going to learn the rest from his NCOs within his platoon, or he will be an idiot who shall fail. IMHO, that cannot be overstressed--and it is rarely mentioned.

"yet I keep having to teach map reading.." NCO common gripe--just insert "markmanship, tactics, or any other procedure" as needed:))

More needs to be done to keep the idea that training cannot be done at the school house to everyones satisfaction---the unit absolutely has to be a part of it. Money and time...where do you draw the line?

But it would be easier if everyone knows that the NCO is his teacher. That is not emphasized enough in the commissioning phase, and it sure as hell needs to be.

Heheh, on my way out of Iraq the first time, I had a choice of either training whole units (reservists) for deployment, or teaching a handful of future LTs at an ROTC department. My first thought on ROTC was to be the guy who beat the NCO's critical role into their heads. But then I went the wrong way with the "bigger" impact idea. AC/RC was a bad idea all around for me; it was like stepping in shit only to realize that you were in the middle of a cess pool. Many active and reserve refugees from deployment fought their way into this.

Speaking of that: A survey of FG officers at senior service academies (War college, CGSC, etc) was released on political attitudes. The news was over how little faith there is in the civilian leadership (particularly congress). But for me, the news was this: ONLY 10% OF THE RESPONDENTS DEPLOYED TO IRAQ OR STAN!!!!

WTF? And, otherwise, only 30% had combat experience of any kind (meaning a few weeks worth in prior engagements). How is this possible? With any luck, these snuffleluffaguses will die of old age fast and make way for the warrior class to take over:))

And another thing: How can these asshats have an opinion on their president's handling of a war if they never played???

Good lord...

Joe M
Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 14:03:47 (ZULU)

SSG MAC: "Joe, CDC and you other commissioned types..."

Whoah,...not me. I was enlisted and that was a long time ago.

CDC'
Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 14:42:04 (ZULU)

CDC, HA! ..knew that would get your goat if not true;)

Joe, OK, you called me out on that one: age-old gripe of NCOs everywhere (Roman Legions & forward). In a larger sense NCO knowledge=Institutional Knowledge=History. All the above have been taught as irrelevent in our Publick skools.

As for that survey, it reflects the Army growing top heavy with non-combat functions & personnel. ALL human institutions tend to get top heavy over time, and the frightening thing is... we're better about reigning it in than 90% of the rest of the world. Go figure.

I've long ago given up on the fight to keep Poges out of the Service: can't be done. I'd just be thrilled if they'd leave the Warfighters the hell alone. ...Yeah, I know: if pigs had wings...

You know... THIS IS A GREAT BAR!!!!!

SSG Mac
MOLON LABE, - Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 15:41:53 (ZULU)

SSG Mac,

It is indeed great.

Gents,

Do any of you have any experience with E.R.Shaw barrels? A Savage 110 barrel replacement kit is only $189 from Brownell's. That gets you, in addition to the barrel, the barrel nut wrench, "GO" and "NO GO" gauges, bore cleaning paste, and gun oil!

Cheers & thanks,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sleet covered Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 18:44:05 (ZULU)

Do you guys see any problem with storing a rifle in a pelican style hard case,or should this be a problem with rust?

Jon Kujawa
Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 19:14:20 (ZULU)

CDC' - "That's a leader."

Huh. Based on my observations, what passes for leadership is a mixture of careerism and posturing, in a continuous popularity contest. (Tongue firmly planted in cheek.)

BTW, is that the original text of the Illiad, or has it been modernized? I'm not sure I can find my copy....

Duman
Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 20:31:36 (ZULU)

Jon: I'm not a big fan of storing in foam--but the problem arises when you have it changing temperatures (condensation)--and store it 'wet" or about to be. My M4 spent a lot of time in a pelican (arms' rooms in war zones were not for me). I wrapped it in a couple of those impregnated gun clothes more out of want than need. That said, a couple of my pistols spend more time in their foam-lined cases than out, though i tend to check on them more often. No issues noted...but I never stick them straight in after being cold-soaked outside...dry foam and dry weapons in a dry place:)) I suppose if humidity is a problem where you stick them, you could always get a dessicant and stuff it in there too. Overseas, I used dry, white rice from the messhall.

Joe M
Thursday, February 21, 2008, at 22:34:12 (ZULU)

Lito

I'm a new guy here who has been following your recommendations on reloading for the past couple of years. However, I don't recall you ever recommending any particular powder measure to use.

I have been reloading for pistol on my Dillon RL550 for years and I am gearing up to begin reloading for my 308 bolt gun and 223AR. I was planning on getting a Redding BR30 or will any quality powder measure suffice, since you have to throw low and trickle up to get accurate weight charges anyway?

Mike Pietrasik
Buffalo, New York, USA - Friday, February 22, 2008, at 00:21:12 (ZULU)

Hi guys, we lost Sgt Dad a couple of days after Thanksgiving.

I've been very busy moving my family into the family estate, to keep Mom from losing it.

Those of you that use tobacco, please quit. This is no way for a warrior to die.

We have a new internet provider so our e-mail is now mikelsam at cox dot net.

4eyes
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Friday, February 22, 2008, at 00:40:10 (ZULU)

Jon-K...

Yeah - I have had problems, and it surprised the hell out of me.

Before I moved here and built the walk in safe, I had to keep my rifles locked on foam cases.

The foam holds moisture, and when stored in the case, you can get a very faint coat of rusty dots that are tiny.

The first gun I saw in on drove me crazy.

I left the cases open so they could air out. Then I sprayed the foam with G-96 spray oil and coated the guns in the same stuff.

I would suggest that you get lots of packets of the sillycone desiccant drying agents and put them in the case too.

Someone told me that the rusty dots were because the foam has residual chemicals in it... I can't say if that's true or not, but I put a layer of cloth (wrap the rifle in a folded towel) to keep it from touching the foam.

I don't trust the stuff anymore - it only happened to one rifle,but I am paranoid about it now.

Mike...

I have three Redding measures - the BR 30, the BR 3, and the little 10x... they are all very good... and a have three Hornady measures - they don't look as pretty as the Reddings, but they are just as accurate.

If you are going to throw lite and tickle, it doesn't make any difference. With ball powders, they all throw less than a 1/10, and with stick, they are all about +/- 0.1 or 0.2 grains, so pick the one that looks nice, or that matches your furniture ;)

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, February 22, 2008, at 00:41:38 (ZULU)

Duman:

Homer. The Iliad. Translated by Murray, A T. Loeb Classical Library Volumes1. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1924.

Click my name.

CDC'
Friday, February 22, 2008, at 02:24:42 (ZULU)

Read my last post and I will try not to post without first relaxing after a long frustrating day of training little sniperettes. :) Still can not believe the way I spelled some of those words. Will try spell checking this one but some of you know that my typing skills are on the lower end of s**ks.

Joe M. - Yes I feel it is the best way to run this show with the present number of snipers. IF I were made King for the day I would put two sniper teams per Company, a sniper squad at Bn, sniper Section at Bde and a Sniper Platoon at Div, at a minimum. Not Sniper King so can only wish. The Centralized system aids greatly in training. There is one POC for the training and ranges/training areas are laid on and training proceeds. When they are parceled to the Company they have to compete with all the regular grunt training and, since there are few, they come out on the short end. As far as supporting missions, A Co has a sniper team but needs three for this mission. Co B and C do not want to release their snipers as they just "might need them". Turf war, feelings are hurt and more time is expended on BS then on planning, coordination, control and support as needed for a successful mission. Now missions are handed down form higher and snipers are part and parcel with the support package. Planning has begun at the higher levels instead of ad hoc and there is now more coordinated support and planning for the snipers instead of "hmmmmm, how are we going to squeeze these guys in?" As far as owned versus borrowed, that is a command responsibility but that owned or borrowed cuts both ways as stated above.

You also mentioned officers that try to think they know what is needed as opposed to knowing who to go to. That is part and parcel with the old officer question NCO question. An officer is moved around alot to receive a broad, but shallow, knowledge. This lets him know where to go to get the right info. The NCO stays in his job and has a narrow knowledge but with great depth. He knows how to do HIS job. Teh officer is there for conceptualizing what must be done and when it must be done by. He then uses his broad knowledge to go to the NCO that can get it done. That NCO takes said guidance and figures out HOW to do it and Who is best suited to do it, based on his depth of knowledge. There seems to be a slight disconnect now days in that set of military procedures.

On Joes' well being, I have no doubt that malice was never part of the equation, only ignorance. There is no school for this and learning by osmosis is not a good conduit for successful deployment. I have discussed this short coming at length with a number of personnel and no real solution had come out of it as sniping is not a big career enhancing school route. We are lucky in that many times out new CPT taking over the SO troops for our guys will get a slot to our school so has a firmer grasp of the situation. But again there is no school. In the 80s I would do Officer Profession Development classes for the Bragg officers on Sniper Employment and Deployment as well as teach the officers course at SWC. That has all come to an end.

SSG Mac - The Marines have centralized their Snipers for years. There are part of the Bn recon element. Just because they are centralized does not mean that they will not fight at the lowest operational unit level. It does mean that when one element needs more than usual, then they are available. As far as teaching this in the Academies, ROTC, OCS, Basic courses, etc, I would love to see that. Not just Task Organization taught right but actual employment and deployment.

Joe M. just saw your next post, I seem to be redundant with what you have just said. One important point that is being missed by many, a school is a learning environment where the student is exposed to and learns the basics. The unit is a training environment where the warrior trains and the NCO trains him. The difference is in a learning environment the variables are removed so he can learn, the training environment is where the variables are added to bring in realism. This is an important point that keeps getting lost in too many circles, and that includes schools that keep trying to add the "wazoo" because it is so cool. Unfortunately the learning suffers and many become frustrated. This results in a group that receive only partial learning with emphasis on the school house way of doing it. No thinking outside the box and no adaptation to the environment of war.

4eyes - So sorry for your loss, prayers with you and your family.

OK guys, will end this one, again a bit long winded, sorry.

Rick B.
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Friday, February 22, 2008, at 02:56:11 (ZULU)

Mike Pietrasik: The Redding measures are good. Buy the Redding trickler. You wouldn't think that there would be much difference in tricklers, but there is.

CDC'
Friday, February 22, 2008, at 04:43:31 (ZULU)

CDC' - Thanks for the reference. Every reading recommendation you've made (to me) has been a home run. It's been many years since I've read the Iliad, I'll put it back in the "stack to read".

Rick B. - I enjoy your posts, please don't apologize.

One of my favorite books on organizational behavior is "The Fifth Discipline", by Peter Senge. He's a distinguished lecturer at MIT, and last week I had a chance to hear him speak at a local college. His insights are an articulation of a line of thought that has been around for thousands of years, and goes to the core of why some organzations are sustainable, and others are not viable.

Now, back to the show......

Duman
Friday, February 22, 2008, at 05:00:21 (ZULU)

Nice that you posted when you did Rick, I was gonna speak to the USMC side of how snipers work, pro and con.

USMC doctrinally: you have a platoon of four 4 man teams at the Bn level, working out of the S2 shop in the H&S Coy. Sometimes they work out of the Weapons Coy, which has benefits and disadvantages also. Very often you have platoons with more teams and/or bigger teams IOT support what they think is going to be the way they operate in whatever area they're in. I've run six men down to two men and it all has it's place, situation dictates.

OK, H&S coy pros: You have access to all the key staff, to include the BC, almost all the time. Your SA is hugely better, you can set yourself up in your own mini-S2 shop with SIPR and UAV feeds and all sorts of nifty shit to do mission planning and such.

Cons: You belong to H&S coy and the 1st shirt, Coy gunny and other folks want you to partake in all the stupid H&S company games that pogues just love to indulge in. You tend to have a buttload of competent NCO's and so you get put in charge of lots of stupid projects.

Wpns Coy pros: You avoid all the H&S drama because Wpns Coy is used to dealing with detachments to all the line units and don't pretend they actually have full time manpower. So you have the ability to do your job, especially in garrison, without getting interupted all the time for "Stupid Shit"(TM)

Cons: You lose touch with what the zeroes are doing and tend to lose control of ops. Your SA goes in the toilet because you have to work so much harder to get intel, you're not living it 24/7 like in the S2 shop. Intel "push" is a great idea but it doesn't work in real life because whatever level the intel analysts are at, they get overtasked at that level with "Stupid Shit"(TM) and can't push down reliably.

OK, there was a concept a few years back to centralize Snipers at the Div level IOT better support training and other things. Good in some aspects, but bad in others. The higher you are, the more outta touch you get and when you do show up, the commander's tendency is to work them like rented mules because they only expect to have you for limited time and they "know" you're just going to go fuck off when you go back to Div. Anyhow, USMC has Recon Bn at the Div level for this sort of thing.

Snipers belong at the Bn level IMO. Of course, I should point out that IMO, all infantry battalions in the USMC should be configured as BCT's/BLT's all the time. For the Army, it should probably be a similar organization, simply at the Bde level, vice battalion. Whereas the USMC need only have a single infantry BCT org, with reinforcing attachments as needed, the Army should probably have light, medium and heavy BDECT's based around helo/airbourne infantry, Strykers and tank/Bradley tms, respectively.

Anyhow, snipers at Bn should focus on being snipers, with a secondary R&S role on an ad hoc basis. We should have a separate scout/recon platoon, also under the S2 section in H&S to do dedicated scouting and reconnaisance. You wind up carrying too much shit as a sniper trying to do R&S, and in peacetime, the battalion neglects your sniper training because revealing yourself via sniping means they lose a R&S asset and they deperately lack R&S assets, due mainly to aforementioned lack of intel push from higher.

Snipers should generally operate in GS to the battalion going DS to companies for specific and limited periods ISO company operations. Attachment to the company should be avoided, as companies will then work you like a rented mule, treat you like a redheaded stepchild and generally misemploy you on top of that. They see you as another fire team with good radios to do "Stupid Shit."(TM) Since you work with the BC and S2/S3 at Bn level all the time during garrison, they may be amenable to listening to you regarding employment. Not so at the Coy level. They will be just familiar enough to have contempt, but not familiar enough to have learned anything. In GS or DS, you always have that communication with Bn to fall back on should you get tasked with "Stupid Shit"(TM) Bn CO's telling their Coy CO's to not be stupid with "his" snipers is a good thing.

Enough for now. discuss. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Friday, February 22, 2008, at 06:07:01 (ZULU)

Duman: That Iliad wasn't necessarily the best version, it was the one that popped up on a web search. It did seem like it was pretty good.

If you want a book recommendation, read "I Claudius" and "Claudius the God" by Robert Graves. You will never look at the world the same.

CDC'
Friday, February 22, 2008, at 06:20:09 (ZULU)

Hey you folks north of the cheddar curtain, you better get to hunting them non-existant cats quick, since even the brain dead fools at DNR may see this:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-cougar_22feb22,0,6390296.story

S/F....Ken M

Ken M
IL, USA - Friday, February 22, 2008, at 07:35:58 (ZULU)

Ken

I saw that cat about a year ago. Told the game warden about it and he and he looked at me as if to say "what the hell are you on"

so i contacted the county extension office and they had been following up on sightings, tracks in the snow and even hair samples.

Guys

I picked up that KAHLES scope i mentioned the other day. I cannot believe the clarity that that scope has. As far as i can see it is second to none except maybe a S&B

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Friday, February 22, 2008, at 11:04:14 (ZULU)

Great guys,

thats what I needed to hear,I think Ill just buy a second gun safe and be done with it.

Or I will lose sleep.

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Friday, February 22, 2008, at 14:28:33 (ZULU)

Rick: Glad you were redundant; otherwise I would be compelled to re-evaluate years and years of what I thought I had observed. I have that much respect for your opinion--if you disagree, I re-do my math. Simple.

Schooling could be easily altered to accomodate a MEL-specific level of training for the arcane arts of indirect fires, R&S, anti-armor, and sniping. Infantry OBC is where it starts, and where it gets the most detail (the AMU and the sniper school house are right there alongside), you can easily create an sniper employment course, similar to IMPOC of short duration for those slotted to PL (just as we do for mortar maggots). The whole army could get this reinforced at CAS3 and CGSC--and I'll tell ya---it IS important for transporters and supply weenies to know this stuff! The reasons were more than amply addressed when I was a supply weenie myself here a few years ago---like that O-6 who thought trucks were better used to clear a port of excess containers over something like 5 of 9 infantry battalions being critical on ammo in a war zone...anyway, the point is exactly as you alluded to:

We have squandered our school house hours on crap like ethics and values (either you had them already or you're short for the career)--instead of allowing this time for the basics only. The life lessons come as life is lived! Yeah, we've tried schooling experience! So, what then do we have experience for? Part of this problem is self-perpetuating: We have had several years' worth of spineless niceness refusing to hammer shitbags. I spent two years trying to fix a morally bankrupt LT; and finally had the BC on board with a career ending evaluation, and "sealed his fate" or so we both thought. Much to our surprise, he survived because the new BC supported his appeal and later this same douche caused enough harm to find resignation the better choice over a court martial. That's my direct experience--I could tell you a hundred similar stories I was on the periphery of. My exposure is like single-digit percentages of the whole--so extrapolate yourself a lot of idiots that should be shitcanned but manage to hang in due to the lack of will to be "judgmental" and hold a freakin' baseline standard.

Ken M: The quiet restructuring of the army is following what you've just said it should do. It is a neat process, really, as it started happening as part of a wartinme deployment for many units. They (brigades) got all their "slices" of divisional assets as they always have for collective training events, formed a new battalion and gave it a CO with those "attched" support and service support elements, then deployed, came home...and kept their divisional assets forever more as organic elements. It was one of the most efficient macro changes I've ever seen:))

In a perfect world, snipers would be organic to the company. Until the world is perfected, the best thing is consolidation at the task-force level, with as much habitual support as is possible. At least, that is what youz guys seemed to lead me to believe now. I am ambivilant to consolidations for admin purposes (that is what the restructuring of divisional assets to brigade teams is undoing)--but in this case, I thought it best. I think the pros and cons support it.

Cool discussion....thanks

Joe M
Friday, February 22, 2008, at 15:39:03 (ZULU)

Doc:

Shaw barrels - like everything else, there are some great ones, and some poor ones that should have not got out. They are the "budget" short chambered barrel. My experience is limited to Rem 700 and Mauser barrels.

Shilen is better, but does cost more. I used a Shaw to rebarrel an older Rem 700 from .222 to .223 (wood stock plinker), because the Shaw's twist was 1/9, and the Shilen (via Brownells) was 1/12. It was a drop in fit (contour) and OK for a plinker / hunting rifle. But I had minor problems with it that never come up with the Shilen short chambered barrels.

I would look at the Shilen Savage barrel if you are really serious. I think the extra money is worth it. But for hunting purposes, you would probably not notice the difference.

http://www.shilen.com/savageBarrels.html

P. Hayden
USA - Friday, February 22, 2008, at 20:23:18 (ZULU)

Wrote this late last year for SOF. Info gleaned from over 500 platoons, over 5 years time. Figured my bandwith usage has been slim to none for the last few years so I will get caught up in one fell swoop.

Denying the Emplacement of IEDs: Let Our Snipers Hunt!

By Brian K. Sain

“The true sniper is not actually, in one sense of the term, a real “soldier”. His nature, job and gifts are too individualistic” (Ion L. Idriess)

These words were written nearly one hundred years ago and are still applicable today.

Unfortunately, individualism in and of itself, flies in the face of contemporary military thinking and for numerous reasons, many commanding officers simply do not understand the huge force multiplier they have … with their sniper teams.

The worth of the sniper in warfare has been proven time and again but these lessons have been largely forgotten after every conflict. That is, until the newest tyrant attempts to rule the world by force and well trained and equipped snipers are urgently needed once again.

This unfortunate cycle of being “caught with our pants down” results in stop gap measures like the designated marksman program, issuing worn out M14 rifles for precision work and pressure being put on the sniper schools to push sniper students through, just to get enough trained snipers in the field.

Many fully trained professional snipers currently in the fight; feel that the designated marksman program with marginal training and marginal equipment is “watering down” the sniper program. They feel that every Soldier/Marine should be a well trained marksman first and the snipers should be left to do what snipers know how to do best. They feel it is irresponsible and downright ludicrous to send guys half trained (at best) to do a snipers job.

The designated marksmen on the other hand (who come from various skill levels and backgrounds) are set on a tread wheel; often being tasked with sniper work, by commanders who do not understand sniper tactics. The commanders assign these men to over watch missions but do not properly equip them for it. The designated marksmen have no choice but to follow orders and do the very best with what they have or with what they can scrounge, inside or outside of their chains of command. Some do a great job and eventually attend sniper school upon their return from theater.

Many snipers believe they would be better served if they had their own command and support elements rather than being treated simply as an afterthought attached to a headquarters company.

But lamentations from snipers to higher for better gear and operational autonomy often fall on deaf ears to officers primarily schooled in commanding battalions of tanks, artillery and mechanized infantry. One comment overheard from an officer defending his position was stated as “Snipers don’t win wars”

That assessment may have been valid with the former “big army” threat of the Soviet Union but may be somewhat arguable given the nature of current conflicts. Tanks and artillery are of limited use in the urban fighting of Iraq where the number one killer of our military personnel is the Improvised Explosive Device, better known as the IED.

IEDs are placed by human insurgents and one of the best ways to combat them is with a corps of well equipped and well trained snipers. Fully supported by their command with common sense rules of engagement and operating upon actionable intelligence (that they often develop themselves) Coalition snipers can methodically hunt these insurgents down and eliminate them (with no collateral damage to innocents whatsoever). The battles for Fallujah and Najaf are prime examples of virtual domination by US sniper teams.

Snipers are by their very nature, hunters; and due to their intensive training, no one knows their capabilities better than the snipers themselves. The same however, cannot be said of their commanding officers in many instances. Many simply have no training in sniper operations, do not understand their sniper’s capabilities and have no idea how to deploy their snipers successfully therefore, the sniper is caught in the proverbial Catch-22.

Sniper missions require trust and autonomy from higher for snipers to be able to operate successfully (sometimes independently) and “do what they were taught to do”. Unfortunately, most E5s are not going to be able to tell a commissioned officer much about how the snipers should be deployed or why the gear the sniper needs is different than the other troops. After all, how could any E5 who has merely attended sniper school possibly know more about sniper deployment than a commissioned officer who has not?

With the advent of the IED and the suicide bomber, many units that previously did not have snipers are now finding the sniper’s intelligence gathering and over watch skills vital to mission success. Since a school trained sniper is usually an infantry MOS, these armor, artillery, and cavalry units are often deploying some form of designated marksman to counter current threats.

Unfortunately, the gear and weaponry required for these men may not fall within the equipment guidelines of the type of unit deploying them. I.e. a Stryker unit may have plenty of budgetary room for their vehicles, or TVs for their CP, but no money for the optics, weaponry and specialized equipment the designated marksmen desperately need to protect the unit from IEDs and suicide bombers. This is because their modified table of equipment may not denote anywhere that the unit even has designated marksmen!

A commonly heard reply to a sniper’s request for gear and operational autonomy usually goes something like “You guys are nothing special and no different than the rest of the troops; so quit whining”.

If this is so, then why are snipers hand picked and sent to one of the most rigorous and demanding forms of training the US military has to offer and taught things other Airmen, Marines, Sailors and Soldiers are not? Why is a designated marksman chosen for his position over someone else if everyone is equally trained and no one is special? Anyone familiar with the sniper program knows that graduates from sniper school are rarely ones you would consider “whiners”. They are however, consummate professionals and perfectionists. That is their nature and one of the primary reasons they were chosen for the job in the first place.

We constantly hear from snipers in OIF how they would be much more efficient if they were allowed to do the things and operate the way they were taught in sniper school. Snipers lament that their commanding officers often love to deploy them to places like water towers or guard towers and force them to take the same routes, to the same hide sites, time and time again. These are tactics taken straight out of Hollywood and suicidal for a sniper team.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, we hear that some sniper commanders are afraid to allow the sniper teams outside the wire alone because if they get killed, higher will have hell to pay for losing men on their watch and having it displayed on the nightly news at home. The snipers feel that they knew the risks they signed on for when they took the job but they can’t very well kill the enemy if they are not allowed off the base without a convoy of protection.

The snipers tell us that because some commanders have no knowledge of sniper operations, some commanders simply do not understand why snipers need equipment that is different than standard infantrymen and these requests are often passed off as “gee whiz” items rather than the absolutely essential pieces of equipment they really are.

One example here is the sniper’s optics. Because a sniper serves as the eyes of his command, quality optical equipment is constantly in demand. Spotting scopes, rifle scopes, mini binoculars and small laser range finders are almost universally needed and are absolutely essential pieces of gear for the sniper. How can snipers or designated marksmen determine if an insurgent is carrying a weapon or determine the insurgent’s activities without optics? We are speaking here of quality, lightweight optical equipment that will not hinder movement and that will not add to an already massive combat load in 120 degree heat. Is the insurgent carrying a rifle or a hoe? Is he using a cell phone or a detonator? Or … is he using the cell phone as the detonator? Modern rules of engagement dictate that the sniper must know these things before he fires. Therefore his optical equipment is critical.

The M49 designation for the M49 spotting scope stands for Model of … 1949! The scopes are falling apart and many have no tripods. M14 rifles are being pulled out of store rooms and issued with cracked stocks and bedding, no optics, rear sight assemblies or magazines! The US military has not officially used the M14 rifle since the late 1960s. When the current parts in inventory are gone, they are gone; and when a designated marksman points these things out as a potential problem he is told to quit whining and get the job done.

The snipers do not need this gear ten years from now. They needed it in hand, ready to go, on September 10, 2001. The Rapid Fielding Initiative is certainly helping and the author personally knows that some of the best logistics people in the United States military are absolutely doing all they can possibly do to fix these problems. But the red tape of the procurement process; the bids and the contracts and the tests and the trials and the massive slow as molasses paperwork, business, money and politics of it all … suffocates even the best of their efforts. The man in the arena is the one who suffers. He needs a spotting scope right now so he can protect his people.

Commanders, if your snipers or designated marksmen ask for something needed to do their jobs more efficiently, chances are they are not whining at all. Listen to them. They wouldn’t risk the heat from on high if they didn’t really need the gear.

There was a time early in our own history when the American people were fighting the greatest power in the world (England) and we ourselves were referred to as insurgents. Will we yet again forget the lessons of marksmanship in guerilla warfare as taught to us by our forefathers such as General Daniel Morgan?

The enemy is real and he is committed and America must remain steadfast. Yet, our snipers cannot operate without command authority to do so. The advent of the IED demands that we properly train and equip our snipers and then … let them hunt! The way they were taught to do and the way they have always done when we have called upon them.

brian k. sain
Friday, February 22, 2008, at 21:14:22 (ZULU)

P. Hayden,

Thanks. I rather suspected something like that. One of my customers brought me his Savage 110 that he had just re-barreled from 7 mag to .458 Win. mag. with a Shaw kit. He hopes to turn it into a .458 Lott! That boy loves pain. I re-did my old Mauser sporter with a Shilen barrel a couple of years back and I'm still happy with it.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sleet covered Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, February 22, 2008, at 21:21:14 (ZULU)

Got this just today ... Army Sniper.

"Sir,

I am starting up the sniper section at XXXXXXXX. All of the snipers that had deployed with the unit and returned in XXXXXXXXXXX have left and I have an entirely new group of guys to train.

What I was wondering was if you would have a suggestions of where I could purchase match grade ammo at a reasonable price. We have no match grade ammo for our ranges this year, and it doesn’t look good for next year. My options for this year are use 7.62 belt ammo and de-link the rounds, or buy some ammo for the guys to practice with.

I’m going to use the de-linked 7.62 rounds for a familiarization range this spring. After they get more comfortable with the rifle, I wanted to let them shoot at longer ranges. The ball ammo isn’t going to give them much confidence in the rifle or their abilities though.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

SSG XXXXXXXXXXX"

brian k. sain
Friday, February 22, 2008, at 21:33:27 (ZULU)

BKS: "Figured my bandwith usage has been slim to none for the last few years so I will get caught up in one fell swoop."

Excellent.

CDC'
Saturday, February 23, 2008, at 03:08:44 (ZULU)

BKS: "Many snipers believe they would be better served if they had their own command and support elements rather than being treated simply as an afterthought attached to a headquarters company."

Looks to me like that's the only solution that would solve much or ALL of the problems facing the average deployed sniper.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Saturday, February 23, 2008, at 16:27:30 (ZULU)

I got him...

Jase' and I filed papers for emancipation two days ago, and yesterday, we went and took all of his stuff out of the ex's house.

We caught her off guard, and when she told him he couldn't take the stuff and go, he pushed her aside and took his stuff.

So he is with me 24/7, and we're filling out papers to get him in school.

The legal shit isn't over yet, but he's here and as happy as a clam at high tide... and she is in shock.

It's been a long time coming...

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, February 23, 2008, at 20:36:38 (ZULU)

Joe M. No, your instincts are sound and yes I would have said so if I disagreed. :)

Ken - Got an email with some photos of one of those non existent cats on a guy's deck. Looking in at his kids playing on the floor. :O

Gary - Kahles makes one heck of a good scope and it is on alot of the military weapons in Europe.

Joe - Companies would have organic snipers but the Bn and above would have additional snipers. These snipers would have the intel and be capable of immediately augmenting and supporting the operational units as required. OF course, again in a perfect world where I was King. :)

Snipers and their own command only means that there is a boss a bit higher up the food chain and they must still be attached to a unit for use. This can be even harder on them when they are not from a piece of the organic unit pie. This also makes it even harder for the leaders to learn how to properly use them once attached for a mission. The snipers can not just go running around on the battle field without the local command knowing and supporting. The battle space is apportioned and assigned. Those units assigned that battle space run operations in their assigned block and must know what else is going on or fratricide will, not may, but will occur. It has already happened due to units not coordinating with supported AND unsupported units. Conveys have fired up snipers on watch for IED emplacement. Having their own command could cause even more problems in coordination AND unit jealousies. The one thing that will solve many problems is doing just as stated by Joe M. Train the leaders from Basic Officers through War College on employment, deployment, strength/weaknesses, as well as selection, training and sustainment. Stop the touchy feely crap that is for only CYA. Once this has occurred the support tail will reattach, gear will come forth, and snipers will be trained and sustained for the battle space they are fighting. My thoughts on the matter. :)

Brain - He needs to take great care in buying ammunition to shoot in his training. IT is one of the forbidden items for purchase without a long memo signed by all permitting the purchase.

Kittywhakcer - CONGRATS! Long time coming. :)

Rick B.
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Saturday, February 23, 2008, at 20:40:34 (ZULU)

'Lito - Congratulations! Long fight, worth the effort! That's just super!

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Saturday, February 23, 2008, at 22:40:20 (ZULU)

'lito,

Congratulations. An outstanding job well done.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The soggy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, February 23, 2008, at 23:37:20 (ZULU)

'Lito

Congratulations and best of luck on your "new" full-time son.

I admire your tenacity.

Now for all the legal system scum to get their just desserts...

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, February 24, 2008, at 00:23:55 (ZULU)

Pablo: That's a lesson in tenacity. Good work and congrats.

CDC'
Sunday, February 24, 2008, at 00:27:00 (ZULU)

'lito,

Good on ya! I don't know of any one more deserving or who could have done it!

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Sunday, February 24, 2008, at 03:26:59 (ZULU)

'lifo,

Congrats on one hell of an accomplishment.

I'd
Sunday, February 24, 2008, at 07:07:29 (ZULU)

Mr. Lito, sir,

Much congratulations! Have watched for many years (since 1997) and am truly greatful for your courage and wit in this fight. We lost our oldest about year ago (my step-son)in a custody suit where he wanted to live with his father, a four-time felon, and the court gave the felon uncontested custody. Son went from 90% student to failing most of his classes and has realized he has made the worst decision of his life to this point.

Seriously considering filing incompetence charges with the MO Bar for the guardian ad litem and the presiding judge, now retired. Son needs to "feel" a little more to help bring him back to reality,but I can draw some parallels from your situation.

Thank you to you and your son

Lord bless ya,

Scott

Scott F.
Hillbillyland, USA - Sunday, February 24, 2008, at 07:29:42 (ZULU)

Kittywhacker, way to go! Now, make the bastads pay! YOu're in a unique position to do so, and they only tried this on you because everyone else that had this chance decided to just let it go. Hammer them, or they'll just go on to do it to some other less capable sap who can't defend himself as you so obviously can. ...not a matter of forgiveness, but of how long the corrupt will go unchallenged.

Scott, prayers to you & yours.

Everyone, good news: it looks like I've got that job I was trying for. They're preparing the formal offer now, and if it matches what I discussed with them, I'm in. This requires me to let go of my NG career, but I can truly say that I'll be supporting the Nation's defence more in the new job, than as a Cav SSG.

Question for the crowd: of those who use TI quick-cuff slings, who also uses some kind of hand-stop? I'm designing one analogous to the plain-jane anchutz one here: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=635834 (or click) Mine will be designed to mount on a picatinney rail, and have the flush-cup type attachement point. I've seen an awful lot of guys with tactical rigs trying to use a sling hold without any stop, and always thought "That's not gonna work well". What are your thoughts?

SSG Mac
Sunday, February 24, 2008, at 12:00:47 (ZULU)

Click my name. Glock KB.

Another failure.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwq3Co8UnnI&feature=related

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, February 24, 2008, at 12:23:01 (ZULU)

Powder measures- You're gonna scale weigh charges for a AR??????????? I throw my charges for .223 and it hasn't mattered to my varmit gun. I use a Lyman 55/WW 748 for the MatchKings and the ammo will do better than 1/2 MOA.

Jeff Cooper- You want to be real careful trimming the stock on a 1100/11-87. The bolt return spring is in the stock. There's conversions out there that'll let you do a pistol grip, but you lose too much capability for a little kewl. There ought to be a gunshop somewhere around you that can bore the shortened barrel for the Remington choke tubes.

I'd stick with 00 buck, look for the reduced recoil/tactical loads. Birdshot may work at 10 feet (Capstick had a story about someone taking out a lion with #6, someone else can do that @#$.), you don't have a warranty as to the circumstances of your encounter.

WR Moore
Sunday, February 24, 2008, at 17:32:45 (ZULU)

Congrats catman,

I also forgot to say that my wife is pregnant for the first time,we are expecting august 17,

All of you guys keep your fingers crossed for a boy,I guess it does not matter because he/she is still going to be taught to shoot.

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Sunday, February 24, 2008, at 20:19:54 (ZULU)

Rick B., sir, et al,

How long has the military used second focal plane reticles in scopes in variable power? S&B is first focal, but why did'nt military provide FFP's before? Are the Nightforce scopes SFP and is'nt the Army and Navy using them some also?

Guess my question is I'm looking to buy for my new project and want another FFP in 4.5-14 or 6.5-20 range(Leuppy), but Nightforce is actually cheaper at this point, but SFP. NF that much better to negate the FFP advantage of the Lueppy, optics wise?

Got about $1500 to spend.

Advice??

Scott F.
Sunday, February 24, 2008, at 20:47:20 (ZULU)

Scott F - I have heard that Nightforce was displaying a new FFP scope at the Shot show earlier this month. If you can wait a couple months, you may be able to go that route for what you want

medicjim
Sunday, February 24, 2008, at 22:25:02 (ZULU)

Oh, Reaper of Stray Cats...Bravo Zulu! Staying the course has it's rewards. Congratulations, and my admiration for your courage.

Well, I'm entering my final days in training with ArmorGroup for the Embassy ERT teams in Kabul. It's been a month of pure Hell on this 50+ year old body, but I've made it so far. I've had a lot of new stuff, and a lot of old, stuffed in my gullet the last few weeks. the PT was gruelling, but the hardest was having to low crawl so much. I haven't done that in over 30 years. If it comes to that, I'll just take my chances on a bullet. My knees are shot. My elbows are hamburger. Oooof. But, all in all, it's been a hoot. Not sure when I'll be wheels up for the 'Stan, but should be by the 5th of March. Last picture I saw of the place, there was abut a foot of snow on everything. It's weird, but I don't miss police work one bit.

In any case, I'll try to post once in a while from the land of the Afghan warlords. Ya'll take care, and keep your groups tight.

Chuck

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, February 24, 2008, at 22:49:58 (ZULU)

'Lito- Way to go. Keep us posted on your jihad with the local legal system.

Scopes-Meade Optical/Redfield is supposed to be bringing new tactical stuff out this summer, at least according to the Sales honcho. Anything at SHOT?

WR Moore
Sunday, February 24, 2008, at 23:08:15 (ZULU)

Charles Hunt: Post when you can. Be careful.

CDC'
Monday, February 25, 2008, at 00:36:44 (ZULU)

Scott - The military went to variable powers a few years ago and one of the criteria was that it be FFP. The mils are not accurate when they are SFP, as you know, except at one location. That is why we waited and Leupold gave us their M3LR. The Night Force Scopes were all SFP and that is why we have never messed with them, the Navy has but not us. Night Force is now coming out with a FFP scope and other than the BS 1/4 and 1/8 moa turrets. some prefer SFP scopes as the reticle is much finer as it is a constant. While a FFP must be seen at lower power as well as higher so it must be coarser. This is a problem for some and the German army has asked for a SFP from Zeiss. AT 1500 dollars I would contact Premier reticle and see what they can do for you on a S&B. You may have to borrow a bit more but that would be my choice. Unless Loopie pulls their collect heads out of their collective a**es, which they have not as of yet, I would look at the newer Night Forces coming out.

Medic Jim - They also found out that the math for their new SFSC, which we did not endorse that dam reticle, is off and that fancy range finding reticle is screwed up at longer ranges. They are in the process of reconfiguring as we speak. :)

Chuck - Hang in there and and trust me, you will low crawl and not even feel it when those whizzy thingies come by the head. Crap, you will pull buttons off you shirt to get closer to the ground for that low crawl. :)

Well, got students tomorrow for fun and games. 1000 meters and in some rather awkward positions.

Rick B.
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, February 25, 2008, at 01:55:43 (ZULU)

Rick: I have seen Nightforce scopes in the hands of Army special operator snipers, but I expect the units bought them with funds available to them.

We recently had a class here - not Army - with all Nightforce 5.5-22 scopes with mildot reticles.

I checked the calibration of the power ring and reticle on several, and found they didn't work - the scope could not be adjusted to a power where ten mils of the reticle covered 36 inches at exactly 100 yards. I couldn't tell whether the reticle was off or the power ring was.

The guys commented that they'd had trouble accurately ranging targets with the reticle, but didn't know why. Now they did.

When they reported those results to Nightforce officials at the SHOT Show this year, they were greeted with skepticism and hostility. Oh, well.

They are now shopping for FFP scopes.

It's easy enough to check, but few people ever do. It's a good idea to check.

Premier Reticles will be introducing a line of FFP scopes in the fall with their label and German - not S&B - glass. Competition in the business is good.

S&B, Nightforce, and, presumably Premier, are/will be available with turrets which adjust in 0.1 mil clicks, as opposed to Leupold, which has, I think, one scope available with 0.05 mil clicks, which is not very useful. Having the scope adjust in the same system the reticle is graduated in makes life MUCH simpler.

Perhaps competition will bring Loopy out of their loopiness.

Lindy
The Northern Occupied Territories of Mexico, Texas, U.S.A. - Monday, February 25, 2008, at 02:22:38 (ZULU)

Lindy - You are correct. Some units bought their own scopes because they heard it was better, found out later that there were problems. Someone is always selling some Joe something that is the next "big deal". Most of the time it is not quite what they expected and they get burned. We test stuff before we make a major purchase and that is another reason why some guys have different scopes. They like some aspect and keep playing with it to see just what it will do. :)

Rick B.
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, February 25, 2008, at 02:42:49 (ZULU)

Master Rick,

Thank you for your quick response. Reported cost on Nightforce FFP's are $2000 and Premier's are $1500 to 2000...so far. S&B, no way, they're advertised at $2500 to $3000. Way outa my minor league ballpark. Guess I'll just have to wait and see what Premier does and save my money. Killin' this ol boy cause he's wantin to shoot his new 7WSM. Gotta be a way to produce better than average glass and not put a scum o' the earth construction worker in the po house.

Loopy's trying to play with the big boy's now...at least in price! Like you said, too bad their product can't be revised.

Scott F.
Hillbillyland, - Monday, February 25, 2008, at 02:55:37 (ZULU)

Jon: Congrats on the future rug rat!

Joe M
Monday, February 25, 2008, at 20:13:25 (ZULU)

Congrats Jon, welcome to the brotherhood of fathership. Do yourself a favor, get the video called "Happiest Baby on the Block." It will be of much use.

Darren

Semper Fi

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Monday, February 25, 2008, at 21:29:01 (ZULU)

Jon - Congratulations on the little one, you can figure on being in sleep deprivation by Aug 18th. :)

Rick B.
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Tuesday, February 26, 2008, at 03:08:54 (ZULU)

Click for a short essay by Mark Steyn.

CDC'
Tuesday, February 26, 2008, at 10:21:03 (ZULU)

WM Moore...

>" 'Lito- Way to go. Keep us posted on your jihad with the local legal system."<

Already there is a new fight going on. When we went to get the Rat's stuff, she was caught off guard.

But Sunday night (when I would have brought him back), she went to the police in her town. They called me and "asked" that I bring him back (HA!). I told him that I have been studying this for a year and I was on solid ground.

He said he was "gonna study up on emancipation (Double HA!!).

On Monday, the Rat and I FLEW down to his doctors office with the school medical form (vaccinations etc). They said it takes 7 days for them to fill it out. So I put on my smiley face and told them that he was ready to be admitted to school today, all except for the medical forms - so she gave me a dirty look, and filled them out.

Then we went to his school, but she had already contacted them and shut them down, so I couldn't get his school records.

But... he can enroll in school without past school records, but he cannot enroll without medical papers - so she took the wrong attack - we have all that is necessary to enroll him.

I went and spoke to the local town sheriff and explained what was going on and to possibly expect her to show up. He said that if she does, he'll come out to the house, look at the papers, and go back to the station.

So she tried to do a block, but missed the only thing I "HAD" to have.

This is getting to be like a life sized chess game.

In the past, when I "did something" that the other side didn't like, they would file motions, and send me threatening e-mails...

... but it's been five days, and nothing.

So either I have the upper hand on this one, or they're having trouble finding a plane big enough for the Daisy Cutter. ;)))

Congrats Jon-K.

No more expensive riffles for a while ;)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, February 26, 2008, at 10:21:09 (ZULU)

Jon K.,

Congratulations!

'lito,

Another chapter in the ongoing saga of "As The Shit Flies"! My fingers are still crossed for ya.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The windy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, February 26, 2008, at 13:38:51 (ZULU)

'lito, Hang in there my Friend, it sounds like you have 'your sixes' pretty well covered...

One of the "Rules of Warfare," have a backup plan as the first plan will go to hell when the figting starts...

Sounds like you are staying 'several moves" ahead of the opposition!

GOOD ON YA!!!

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Tuesday, February 26, 2008, at 14:16:58 (ZULU)

Thanks guys,

No more rifles for a few years,i was going to order a nightforce NSX but my wife said no.Theres always next year.

Jon

Jon Kujawa
Tuesday, February 26, 2008, at 17:34:16 (ZULU)

...was reading an article in the Washington Times about military attitudes toward an Obama Presidency. I then stumbled onto this quoted quote (ha):

"A senior Pentagon official said an Obama swearing-in "will give the Arab street the final victory, the best optics, and the ultimate in bragging rights. They win. We lose.""

So there it is: The ultimate answer to our ages-old question; the holy grail of sniperdom: The best optics! So, to know which manufacturer has the best scope, all we do is wait until we elect Obama, then check out what the terrs are sporting:))

Peanut Update: She sold 860 boxes of GS cookies (give or take a few boxes). About a hundred of those go to troops directly, a whole bunch go "specifically" and there was some 40 bucks donated to shipping costs. What we did not know was "prizes are cummulative"--heheh. She made her goal and will go to summer camp, plus she won a weekend trip for her whole troop, and a busload of goodies. She did a college-dorm door to door for the last 300 boxes over the weekend--something I thought (secretly) would be impossible. Never misunderestimate the crooked grin of a GS cookie salesperson!

On the economy, folks are starting to add up all the little things, like I've been mentioning. The article (click) hits a few red flags, but skips the baby-boomer effect (SSA/ medicare payouts, stock market withdrawals for safer pastures, and pension payouts).

Joe M
Tuesday, February 26, 2008, at 18:19:08 (ZULU)

JoeM-you have DR mail.... Peanut going into a college dorm with munchies was shooting over bait/fishing with mortars. Good for her.

WR Moore
Wednesday, February 27, 2008, at 12:25:09 (ZULU)

Gents,

Just checking in...I 've been in the hospital and just got out Monday. Anyone that tells you arthascopic knee surgery is "three days and your back to work" is full of fecal material, IMHO. Surgery, then infection of the leg, recovery, infection re-occurred in the left leg putting me in the hospital for four days. What should have been a few weeks is no rolling into a two month cycle. Lost 25 pounds and a lot of muscle I couldn't afford to lose. Come back is going to be a long and painful process.

Sounds like you had a great time at the SHOT show. One day I'll have to make it to that event. If for nothing other than meeting some more of you guys.

Charles, I know your deployment is rapidly approaching. Good luck over there and WY6.

Joe M., I did get the package, but haven't felt like playing with the contents yet. Will in the next day or so and get back to you.

Bravo, expect a call and I'll bring you up to date.

The elections? You gents have already said it all. If I wasn't to weak to puke...well, you get the picture.

My best to all.

Semper Fi,

Sir Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Wednesday, February 27, 2008, at 19:23:13 (ZULU)

Wes: Bad deal. I hope you heal quickly.

Pablo: Good stuff. Cut 'em no slack.

Click for a NRA video about gun confiscation after Katrina. It's more interesting than it sounds.

CDC'
Wednesday, February 27, 2008, at 21:00:01 (ZULU)

'Lito,

<<Already there is a new fight going on.>>

That woman ain't right..Shameful and shameless at the same time.

JonK,

<<No more rifles for a few years,i was going to order a nightforce NSX but my wife said no.Theres always next year.>>

Oh man..wouldn't be a good thing here if wife or significant other told me I couldn't buy me gun gear...The hell you say!! hahah..

JR
Brevard County, FL, USA - Wednesday, February 27, 2008, at 22:50:53 (ZULU)

Lito - Keeping batting and you will win!

Joe M. - Can't imagine an Obama as president anymore than I can imagine another Clinton. We are all holding our breaths over this election cycle.

Jon K. - Overheard a wife at a gun shop the other day and had immediate wife envy, she walked in and stated she wanted to order her hubby a Shiloh Sharps, Creedmore silhouette if I remember correctly. My wife of 37 years said no to my getting another motorcycle, something I did with my last one I think. :)

Wes - Hang in there, it will only take a "little" pain to get back in the groove. :(

The young studs are in the Field Shoot phase, believe it or not, it snowed today on the range at Ft Bragg. It is all that dam global warming, opps wait! That's right all four global temp trackers have shown that the earth's temp has dropped to levels not seen in years. The Antarctic ice shelf is growing, and Europe is looking at a mini ice age. Sorry got carried away. :)

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature...ticle10866.htm

Or click my name.

Rick B.
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 00:15:16 (ZULU)

STI draws a line in the sand on California regs

http://www.stiguns.com/CA-PressRelease.pdf

Discussed here too:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=342867

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 00:27:01 (ZULU)

Greetings,

Lito: Congrats

Jon K: Congrats

Wes: Get well soon.

Anybody got/shot the Glock 21 SF? Haven't seen one in my neck of the woods and am a little curious if the trimmed grip makes an appreciable difference.

Pat II
Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 01:16:26 (ZULU)

Anybody had any contact with Premier about the new glass yet, as in a firmer price? Are we hoping for a "second generation" S&B at $500 to $1000 cheaper?...

Why can I not talk to someone at Leupold's custom shop and get accurate info on an upgrade instead of hearing it several different ways? Can an 4.5-15 M3 be changed to a front focal plane reticle?

Enquiring minds really want to know...

Oh yea, do I hold my breath on the USSC 2nd Amendment decision?

My head hurts...

Scott F.
Hillbillyland, - Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 01:39:03 (ZULU)

Rod - Unfortunately that is exactly what the 'anti' nuts want to happen. They want all of the manufacturers to stop all sales in that state and then they can work the same deal through out the US. That is why there is a similar bill in several states AND the US Congress. Any guesses whose names are on the bill?

Rick B.
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 02:17:19 (ZULU)

Click for the ultimate in Mall Ninja armament.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 03:10:19 (ZULU)

Rick wrote:

"The one thing that will solve many problems is doing just as stated by Joe M. Train the leaders from Basic Officers through War College on employment, deployment, strength/weaknesses, as well as selection, training and sustainment. Stop the touchy feely crap that is for only CYA. Once this has occurred the support tail will reattach, gear will come forth, and snipers will be trained and sustained for the battle space they are fighting. My thoughts on the matter"

How can I make that happen Rick?

Never been one to think small ...

brian k. sain
Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 15:27:02 (ZULU)

CDC' - Thank you for the links to the articles. Please keep them coming, they're valuable.

Kujawa - Kongratulations.

Wes - Dude, I'm hoping you get better soon to hit the gym, and get healthy for the course in June. If not.... Bravo and I can split up your gear. :8-p

Lito - I helped a buddy through a divorce, several years ago. He's no prince, but I never thought his ex (professional, well paid, beautiful, etc...) would have turned into the mentally deranged animal that she became. With a court system that enabled her.

Duman
Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 15:34:00 (ZULU)

Rick:

How does cutting off LEO was well as "civilian" sales and service in a jurisdiction play into the anti-gunner's hands?

(I can understand if only "civilian" sales are blocked).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 16:27:13 (ZULU)

"How can I make that happen Rick?

Never been one to think small ..."

Start a larger war.

Bring it home with you.

That's about all I think would actually do it.

SSG Mac
Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 17:16:44 (ZULU)

Brian - This is slowly going to happen as the "peacetime" weenies get replaced with those personnel that are more “combat” oriented. The "warrior" subjects got replaced by touchy feely crap over the years as more and more peace time idiots took over through promotion by incompetence. What I mean by that is the promotion based on all the jobs and schools held. In reality that meant he was the jerk that was so incompetent that the command sent him to schools because they could afford to lose him for the duration of the course. He also has held many jobs because he was shuffled from job to job to get him out of someone’s hair. I have already talked to some of the "new" breed (actually the competent) and they are already talking this very change. This will not happen over night but it will. The pendulum swings.

Rick B.
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 19:06:07 (ZULU)

Hi Guys...

I thought I'd share this with you bums.

I got this from the "Ex's" attorney this afternoon. (The biggest custody law firm in that part of the state)

---

Dear Paul:

We are in receipt of a partial application for Jason's emancipation, and have met with Cathy several times this week to discuss how best to proceed.

While we believe you are on shaky legal grounds in the filing of the emancipation application, we are prepared to file a complete, mutual withdrawal of all pending motions, filed by you and on behalf of Cathy, before the Superior Court and offer our full cooperation and support of the emancipation petition.

I am attaching a Withdrawal of Action form, which is not signed, and which we are prepared to file with the Stamford Superior Court. If you agree with our proposition to end the litigation in Superior Court and work in a cooperative manner to support Jason's emancipation, please sign the withdrawal and fax it to my office at 203-XXX-6991. We will have Cathy sign the withdrawal and file it with the court today, sending you a fully executed copy, as well as confirmation as to the filing of the Withdrawal.

Please let us know how you wish to proceed.

---

And my reply says...

---

Dear Daniel.

Thank you for your most kind and considerate offer, but it is three years too late.

I will not agree to your offer at this time, or at any time in the future.

In fact I plan on filing several more motions.

I am presently drafting a lengthy motion to reopen "Open and Vacate" the first trial. I want my money back... and a pound of flesh for my pain.

I spoke to Brett Xxxxx in Middletown, and he said that the Motion for Waiver of fees, and the motion to disqualify Jackie, MUST be heard in Stamford, so I will be shortly be reclaiming (in Stamford) my waiver of fees motions, and my motion to dismiss Jacquelyn Conlxx and refer her to the State Bar on ethics and misconduct.

There are also a large number of criminal issues that I have uncovered in the last three years that need to be attended to, and while it has taken me a long time to find the right agency of jurisdiction, I now have the right agency to bring my cases.

By the way... Louise filled for a continuance for the Jan 10th Trial because she claimed that she would be tied up with Dxxxx v Dxxxx, a two week trial in Middletown.

When I got Louise's motion on that Sunday night (the 6th) I simply called Mellisa Dxxxx (I mean, like, DUH???) and asked her if there was a two week trial.

Mellisa Dxxxx laughed and said that it was a one or two day hearing at most... it was finished on the 8th. Louise was a very bad puppy. I don't know if that meets the level of "contempt of court", but I'll let Judge Mxxxx decide that.

My best to you and all the gang (and I mean that literally) at Lxx & Txxxx.

---

It's my turn to draw blood

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 20:11:34 (ZULU)

I believe Massad Ayoob (not perhaps originally) said that litigation is one of the last lawful blood sports :-)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 21:12:38 (ZULU)

'Lito - GETTUM GETTUM!!!! :)

Oh how the WORM turns. :o

Rick B
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 21:41:23 (ZULU)

Catshooter: When you draw your blood don¡¦t forget the pound of flesh. :-)

Edited because the computer can’t follow directions :-))

HDR
OK, - Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 22:22:03 (ZULU)

'lito,

Sic 'em! GRRRRR!

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The rainy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, February 28, 2008, at 22:35:06 (ZULU)

Hang in 'Lito sahn.

brian k. sain
Friday, February 29, 2008, at 02:09:20 (ZULU)

MAC:

The way this election is going ... that may not be too far off.

God help us.

brian k. sain
Friday, February 29, 2008, at 02:20:14 (ZULU)

'Lito,

I sincerely hope that the part about "It's my turn to draw blood." was included in the message. Gut the sorry bastards.

Guys,

Had a pretty good day today. Went to the gun store to piss away the tax return, and, while I was picking up my guns I've had on layaway so long that they've appreciated in value, I was behind a guy in line that was selling his half of the guns in his Dad's estate. He saw me looking, and asked if I wanted any of them. I really wish I'd have had a couple grand to spend, but I had to suffer with just one BRAND NEW Winchester 94 trapper with the saddle ring in .30-30. He gave it to me for what they were offering. $245!

They were really gonna asshole him on it. I had a guy come hunt me up and offer me $100 profit on it while I was snooping around, waiting on them to finish the paperwork. I know I can get at least $500 for it. That's what they said they were gonna price it at.

He also had a really tight brand new Schofield that they only gave him $400 for.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, February 29, 2008, at 02:20:47 (ZULU)

'lito san...

Cut long, deep, wide & continous...

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Friday, February 29, 2008, at 03:27:51 (ZULU)

Lito: Wow...whatta ride you've embarked on. The 'system" descended on you...you got offended by the injustice of so-called justice...you studied the beast inside and out...you looked at everything and everyone who contributed to the original injustice...and, all the while, you were going for their throats.

Catching the updates here over the years was like a slow-motion Rocky-style fight. 11 rounds of losing and set backs, followed by one round of turn about. Heheh. There is a book in this experience---many, many fathers get what you got up front. None I know of ever did what you are doing with any success. My case was a protracted "win" off the bat--a few appeals to limit certain opinions, but straight shot nontheless. Your case reads like Odysseus's journey home.

Wes: get well already! Stop complicating things:))

Travis: I sure hope my son has more respect for inheritance and heirlooms. I do not feel sorry for anyone who fire-sells his dad's given property. It seems like an insult. At least you benefitted.

Headline on a news service:

"CBSNEWS Correspondent Gets 'Zapped' By Pentagon Ray Gun..."

LMAO!

Well, now! I call this a good start; they should also test this thing on ABC, CNN, MSNBC...and dial up the power some:))

Joe M
Friday, February 29, 2008, at 03:54:48 (ZULU)

Joe,

The trapper model looks like a friggin' toy, but I'm hoping the boy will snap to and start liking man stuff. His Dad and that whole family would be content to drool in front of a video game or play fantasy football for the rest of their lives. I'm hoping he'll give me an excuse to give him a mint condition gun pretty soon. I haven't had it for 24 hours, and I'm already wanting to work it over and shoot it.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, February 29, 2008, at 05:08:39 (ZULU)

Joe:

Pentagon Ray Gun - stun setting doesn't work on reporters who already are :-)

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Friday, February 29, 2008, at 16:28:57 (ZULU)

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