Sniper Country Duty Roster

January 2009

Happy New Years, guys, from us'uns her in the 'Stan. It's colder'n a magic practitioner's mammary gland, but at least it ain't snowing today. Hafta go to the range for a proficiency shoot today, and it ought to be fun watching all the green faces and woeful expressions. Nice party for the expats last night! Anyhoo, ya'll stay safe and enjoy the holidays.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Thursday, January 1, 2009, at 01:51:18 (ZULU)

Another year come and almost gone. Probably won't make it til midnight so I though I would extend Chickenlady, my grandson and my wishes for a happy, safe and uneventful new year a little early tonight. New job has me working my arse off and am happy to have another short week for R&R and hopefully some trigger time.

Don't forget to raise your shot glass of your favorite adult beverage in honor of master Bruce tonight. The way things are in the world today I'm sure he's up there laughing his ass off on the one hand, and worried about his shooting buds on the other.

Almost past my bed time so its Bolt out for the year!

Bolt
Windy in........, NC, - Thursday, January 1, 2009, at 02:12:44 (ZULU)

Gents,

Just wanted to drop by and wish all of you a Happy New Year.

Sounds like Santa was pretty good to you all...

Will rejoin the crew after mid-January when recovering from surgery. More later.

Wes

Wes Howe
Salem, OR, USA - Thursday, January 1, 2009, at 03:24:04 (ZULU)

Gentlemen: All the best to you and yours.

Wes: Good to hear from you. I've been wondering where you went. Hope all your surgeries are minor.

C.S. Hunt: You too.

Guys downrange: Be cautious.

'yote bait: Post something.

Major Joe: You too.

New Year's resolutions: Shoot more. Exercise harder. Strengthen kids.

CDC'
Thursday, January 1, 2009, at 14:12:51 (ZULU)

Hawgs --- Have a Blessed and Happy New Year!!!

CatShooter - I replied to your email. I've been slack on emails...

Question for all: Has any one of youn'z been up to Storm Mountain Training center recently?

take care,

Ken Hunter

Rogue Rifleman
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Thursday, January 1, 2009, at 14:14:12 (ZULU)

Yeah, yotie...

What CDC said.

Lookie - Here's the thing - we'll all make a deal with you.

When we think you are serious, we'll all agree that you are joking - and when we think your joking, we'll all agree that you are serious...

... or somfin like that.

OK??

Get your raggity ass back here, or I'll send my 400 pound fat sister with the lime green '73 Pinto (with rusted out rocker panels) to bring you some of her home made cookies - the last guy I sent her to visit, she stayed for over 2 years.

His family won't speak to him anymore!!!

HA!

Double HA!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, January 1, 2009, at 16:01:08 (ZULU)

Happy New Year Hawgs.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Thursday, January 1, 2009, at 16:16:47 (ZULU)

Happy new year to all!

I stayed home, watched some nut jump a motorcycle onto the top of the Arc de Triomphe at the Paris in Vegas. Guy has balls of steel. And a broken hand...

And if I see a '73 Lime green Pinto with rusted rocker panels, I'm running away FAST!

155-gr. Scenars: Just received a batch. These puppies are almost too purty to shoot. Almost.

Loading: Undude runs "..44.0 grains of H4895 instead of Varget" in his gas gun.

Anyone have a pet load they would like to share? Launching from Winny Stealth.

Duman
Thursday, January 1, 2009, at 17:02:23 (ZULU)

Duman: Click for good .308 info.

CDC'
Thursday, January 1, 2009, at 18:13:22 (ZULU)

CDC' - Great link, thanks!

Duman
Thursday, January 1, 2009, at 18:30:18 (ZULU)

Rosterfarians,

Now that the old year has gone, and the New Year is already almost a day old, let me add my best wishes to one and all. May this year be a good one - better than last year, and the year before, and...

For me, 2008 has been a SHIT year - excuse the French. And it was noticable on the site. I simply didn't bring my part, and the site suffered. I'm not going to make excuses, it was simply a bad year, and I truly pray that the new year will be a better one.

Here's to all of you.

Marius

Marius
Thursday, January 1, 2009, at 19:09:07 (ZULU)

OK, Marius...

Now that you have returned from the missing - I want to make a minor correction on the Remington trigger article.

Send me your e-mail address so I can send it to you.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Thursday, January 1, 2009, at 22:30:11 (ZULU)

Doc and Jim you guys have PM's from me inbound.

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Friday, January 2, 2009, at 00:34:02 (ZULU)

Yote........

Lito wasn't kidding about the car and his sister.........

Here's the car:

http://www.vintageadsandstuff.com/viewfordpinto2.jpeg

And here's his sis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeRZp7y11HU&feature=related

You best get your sorry ass back on board!

Bolt out!

Bolt
glad 2008 is over in......., NC, - Friday, January 2, 2009, at 01:03:20 (ZULU)

MarcS - I responded to your email, no attachments

medicjim
Friday, January 2, 2009, at 01:51:01 (ZULU)

MarcS,

Info is on the way.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The chilly Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, January 2, 2009, at 01:55:52 (ZULU)

Subject: Remington 700 with 5R barrel
J.C., Travis, CDC, Geoff and anyone I forgot,

Thanks for the info and recommendations about the Remington 700 with 5R barrel.

I got one and it looks great. No scope yet, haven't fired it, but it feels good.

I was told that they only make these available to the civilian market when there is an overrun of barrels on a military contract.

It has the new style trigger. I'm guessing it will adjust better than the old style (with the adjustment screws that tend to come apart instead of turning).

Anyway, thanks again. This is a great site with super great folks.

Chris

Chris McHam
Northwest, Louisiana, - Friday, January 2, 2009, at 03:22:05 (ZULU)

Fuck, Bolt! Nobody should EVER see that! Took me a fraction of a second to close the window!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, January 2, 2009, at 03:31:44 (ZULU)

Hey Chris...

How do you make that bold look in the line:

"Subject: Remington 700 with 5R barrel"?

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, January 2, 2009, at 13:29:41 (ZULU)

Rogue Rifleman,

I haven't been to Storm Mountain lately but I've been there several times, and I'm going back in May for the Comprehensive Course. I enjoy going there. If you have any specific questions, I'll try to answer them.

Happy New Year everyone, be safe and watch your six!

Indiansinger

Roger C. Carpenter
Vardaman, MS, USA - Friday, January 2, 2009, at 14:30:07 (ZULU)

Subject: Steps to access SUBJECT line and create bold text
Lito,

Took me a while to find it...

When you fail to put in your password or poster ID while editing a post, the error page you get allows you to enter a subject line. It may work on the intial post as well.

medicjim
city, state, usa - Friday, January 2, 2009, at 15:33:32 (ZULU)

Oh no! Not Lito's sister. That's dirty ops. Happy New Year you spooks.

Brogers
Friday, January 2, 2009, at 15:53:24 (ZULU)

Brogers - welcome back and happy new year....glad to see you're still kickin'

medicjim
Friday, January 2, 2009, at 16:05:03 (ZULU)

Lito, the guide is goes like this. If it seems like a ball faced lie it's probably the truth!(I feel creative but I can't make up that kind of shit!) If it's seems like the truth it's probably a more cleverly contrived lie. I've got a bad case of don't give a damn lately since America proved beyond a shadow of a doubt the rumor that' its gone to hell and socialism. I always read SC for guidance! Kind of like that thing the rags carry around. KORAN of the Sniper Dudes or something like that! Keep to the tall grass on the high ground! No sleepin in the swamp water!

Brogers
Friday, January 2, 2009, at 16:11:40 (ZULU)

Bolt,

That was truly disgusting. And the video of the Bronto was pure EVIL. Jabba the Hut has nuthin' on her.... new weapon against the tallywhackers (?). Gross them into surrendering...

Yotester... glad you're back!!

Wes.. dude, get better soon. Your body has seen more knives than a Beni Hanna chef....

You guys in the Pacific NW, man you're getting hammered. Keep your powder dry.

medicjim - off topic question. Can someone's pacemaker be disrupted when the individual is tasered?

Has InSain reported in from SoDak yet? It's probably a few degrees cooler than Port Arthur. Hope he's doing well. Maybe if Yotester is up to it, we could have a doggin' outing...

Later!

Duman
Friday, January 2, 2009, at 16:24:27 (ZULU)

"Can someone's pacemaker be disrupted when the individual is tasered?"

Short answer is No and Yes

No, the pacemaker will not be impacted

Yes, the taser can trigger a heart problem that some pacemakers will attempt to "fix"

medicjim
Friday, January 2, 2009, at 17:06:10 (ZULU)

Would somebody send me Osama's home address? Cords will do. I sure do need to supplement my Welfare check so I can retire!

Thanks Jim and Duman Dan Lito and Boltster for your kind words.

Brogers
Friday, January 2, 2009, at 17:09:06 (ZULU)

'yotie...

>"Thanks Jim and Duman Dan Lito and Boltster for your kind words. "<

Kind words my ass - it was pure fear in your heart after seeing the video of my sister doing dishes that brought you back! :))))

Yippie!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Friday, January 2, 2009, at 17:20:48 (ZULU)

That 'yoteBait is one smart fella!

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The sunny Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Friday, January 2, 2009, at 17:27:38 (ZULU)

Duman,

My uncle assures me that touching an electric fence when you have a pacemaker is a REALLY crappy idea!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, January 2, 2009, at 18:47:46 (ZULU)

Being that I'm from NJ, I wasn't raised with electric fences around... fortunately for me, my friend at the time was a bit quicker on the draw and allowed me to learn a lesson the "easy" way.

While touching an electric fence is a lousy idea....pissing on one is apparently a REALLY, REALLY bad idea.

...or at least that's what he claimed after falling down and pissing all over himself. I was having a hard time registering any of it, as I was laughing so hard I about pissed myself....boy was that funny.

medicjim
Friday, January 2, 2009, at 20:27:03 (ZULU)

Lito: Pissing on the fence was far less shock that the sister's dish washing episode.

Doc; Howarya? The dogs are coming back! There are more holes working every day! If we had a little wata to sprinkle on em I'm sure theyd grow faster!

Jim; Duman, I don't know what would happen if my ICD got hit with a spark plug, electric fence or whatever but I think pissin on myself would be the least of the problem! Tazing me would stop my pacemaker and whoever did it would suffer a heart stoppage too if I had me Glock with me! Believe the newer pace maker would survive and most likely your heart would suffer a reset which is not a problem. They have treatment where they send a 30-? shock with a couple pads through your chest to cure A-fib (Jim knows all this!) They were about to do that to me and I asked them what was gonna happen when they sent 30kv through the receiver on this ICD device. They all looked at each other and said, "You have a ICD?" Oh crap! But the battery went down a couple of months later and they did the shock anyway! I guess they don't bother to read their charts any more! Real problematic would be my guess but a standard pace maker would probably not be mechanically harmed. Ouch them things hurt!

Brogers
Friday, January 2, 2009, at 21:42:37 (ZULU)

There! Confusion is the supreme ruler here today! The second post should be gone! Now I will goway and be quiet!

Brogers
Friday, January 2, 2009, at 21:48:54 (ZULU)

garbage deleted.

Brogers
Friday, January 2, 2009, at 22:23:30 (ZULU)

The medics have a pharma alternative to treat you if you have persisitant SVT....but you really, REALLY aint gonna llke it.

Adenosine is pretty cool stuff... stops your heart....flatline, for like 30 seconds. We push it and the patient gets a 30 second preview of what a massive, lethal heart attack feels like.... and then poof, it's gone and the heart starts beating again...usually

I have a couple strips signed by real, living people that I show in my classes....complete with a sustained period of flatline....

Really good, kind medics like me (snicker) might 'sedate' you a bit with valium...but that takes time and skill, which sometimes isn't present with unstable SVT

medicjim
Friday, January 2, 2009, at 23:10:49 (ZULU)

'yoteBait,

Good to see you back. I'm still hangin' in there altho my neighborhood is going down the toilet. Another damned pilot moved has moved in! There go the property values! ;o) Glad to hear the dogs are coming back. My guys bug me every two or three weeks as to when we're going back to Kansas. They'll be tickled to hear the good news.

Cheers & Happy New Year,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The chilly Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Saturday, January 3, 2009, at 00:27:58 (ZULU)

Welcome back Bill it's good to see you posting again.

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Saturday, January 3, 2009, at 02:46:51 (ZULU)

Lito,

Medicjim is right about the bold print in the subject line.

When I posted earlier there was no subject line and so it didn't post as it should have.

I didn't notice the bold print when I entered the subject line.

chris McHam
Northwest, Louisiana, - Saturday, January 3, 2009, at 03:10:30 (ZULU)

Question:

I was thinking about 155 grain Scenars for my new rifle. What is the difference between HPBT and HPBT SJ? I notice there is about $25 between them on Powder Valley.

Chris McHam
Northwest, Louisiana, - Saturday, January 3, 2009, at 03:20:55 (ZULU)

Chris...

>"What is the difference between HPBT and HPBT SJ?"<

"Silver Jacket".

They are silver plated.

Chicks dig them and they work wonders on vampyres and werewolves.

:)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, January 3, 2009, at 07:02:19 (ZULU)

Roasters,

I came across a website you may find of use:

www.campingsurvival.com

Lots of neat stuff for the outdoors. This is probably a favorite site for most folks, but those that aren't familiar with it, enjoy!

medicjim - I carry a few basics for first aid, like Neosporin, bandaids, and alcohol wipes, when I'm backpacking. Would you have any recommendations to add? If I packed what some would consider a complete medical kit, I'd have to bring a wheel-barrow. And some silver jacketed Scenars for Werewolves...

Duman
Saturday, January 3, 2009, at 16:09:02 (ZULU)

For those who didn't get the joke, Silver Jacket is what Lapua calls their moly coated bullets. I don't think I'd pay $25 for that service, since I can do it myself for a lot less. And that's if you even feel it adds anything to the mix.

I use IMR 4895 with the 155 Scenars, I have 2 8lb kegs of surplus that seems a tad slower then commercial 4895 and it works great at right about 44.0gns in a Win case. Doing about 2950 from a 24" 5R tube.

Haven't been doing much bolt gun shooting lately, mostly 5.56 and 6.8SPC AR stuff and pistol shooting. Mainly lack of easy range access and too much time at work making money for toys that I don't shoot often. Sad.

Anyone going to SHOT? How about the Indy 1500 next weekend? S/F......Ken M

Ken M
Saturday, January 3, 2009, at 19:17:13 (ZULU)

Camping med kit

one each...

Tourniquet, bulky dressing, cravat, refelctive silver emergency blanket (works as occlusive dressing too), bandaids, triple antibiotic ointment, ambesol (great for stings), tweezers, small pointy scissors, benedryl tabs, aspirin, moleskin, roll of tape (med, duct or electrical...they all work)

The total package should fit in a gallon size freezer ziplock and weigh half a pound

medicjim
Saturday, January 3, 2009, at 20:31:41 (ZULU)

Looks like the trend is to the 155's Scenars and the likes. I changed to these too a year or so ago. It seems like the little extra speed and better drag is a advantage at the 1K mark to me anyway.

Doc I'll do the rain conjur and see if we can get some growth on these towns. Too bad the neighborhood went to hell, that pilot probably cost you half your property value. :)Missed seeing you guys out last year! I hope I'm in a little better shape (physically anyhow) this year. I am still technically working but I'm going to take off when you guys get back out if there's any way at all. Stock Market and 401 uncertainties kind of delayed some of my plans but I pulled 94 percent of what I had before the train wreck went down so I didn't crash and burn but it's uncertain as hell and that still worries me. Looks like the Israelis are about to smoke some trouble makers. More uncertainity I guess, just what we need.

Brogers
Saturday, January 3, 2009, at 23:46:34 (ZULU)

Dunman - RE: "Life is hard. It's harder if you're stoopid. It's even tougher if you're stoopid, ugly, and morbidly obese. She won the triple crown."

The fact that the BPS lady has that job is proof that the economy isn’t bad enough yet. When I go a week without running into one of these maroooons at a retail store or customer "service" center is when I will applaud this recession for being effective in ridding us of the dead weight that is desperately in need of ridding.

LTChip
Helena, MT, USA - Sunday, January 4, 2009, at 02:52:49 (ZULU)

First aid: A couple of quick clot packs might be a good idea, as well. Get the gauze, not the powder (if that's still out there), and DON'T open it with your teeth....the results are ugly if you get it on your lips.

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, January 4, 2009, at 06:17:01 (ZULU)

PLAY TIME

This is a good one for the grand kids

www.versuscountrybagamonsterbuck.com/

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Sunday, January 4, 2009, at 11:24:19 (ZULU)

Hey YA'll,

A doctor friend sent me a book called 'wilderness medicine, beyond first aid' by William W.Forgey, M.D. when I made it known to him that I was stump dumb about first aid.... Great read and lot's of good advice.

Just thought I'd pass some good info on..

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Sunday, January 4, 2009, at 13:25:48 (ZULU)

Charles Hunt,

Do those 'quick clot' packs have a limited shelf life, or can you store and forget?

Happy hunting...

Duman
Sunday, January 4, 2009, at 15:11:55 (ZULU)

Before you go out and buy up the last pack of qwik klot on the shelf, you might want to check how the stuff is used...anything that comes with that many "if" conditions suggest a 'corner case' treatment. To create an analogy....if you where going to make up a small roadside emergency tool kit for your car, would it include a distributer wrench? Sure it's a functional tool, but how often will you needed it on the road side?

medicjim
Sunday, January 4, 2009, at 17:42:47 (ZULU)

Hiya Bill,

Good to see you posting again. Badlands has a 5-day SASS class coming up in Feb. Why don't come on up?

For anybody interested in Quick Clot, I would suggest that you check into a product called "CELOX." Those supposedly in the know, claim it is safer to use than the early production Quick Clot. Nope, I don't have any experience with either of these but have followed the discussions concerning their use and would personally consider carrying Celox. They now have an applicator device that is able to apply deep into the wound. A quick check on Ebay found this:

(click my name)

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Monday, January 5, 2009, at 00:04:31 (ZULU)

First Aid Country:

In a pinch, almost anthing can be used as a tourniquet, but if your putting a kit together, the combat applications tourniquet (CAT) is a good piece of kit, reasonably priced.

Pat II
Monday, January 5, 2009, at 00:49:06 (ZULU)

Well hello folks,

Someone mentioned anyone down to this years SHOT, that's an affirmative here. Jon the Welshman in exile should be as well, he's hopping the pond to get off the UK icecube for a week or so. Should be a good show, will be a busy week. Hope to catch up with some of you reprobates, always good to put a face to a name.

'Yote,

Hey fella, good to see you up and 'round again..

'Lito,

Got so used to watchin for the pinto, now you tell us you got video on call...thats secret squirrel sneaky...

Later

JR
Tidybowl, FL, - Monday, January 5, 2009, at 03:28:54 (ZULU)

Duman: OAL makes a big difference in my HBV. Its rounds are 2.94". They look a little funny but they shoot much better than 2.75"ish. Your Stealth may be throated the same.

TIFWIW.

CDC'
Monday, January 5, 2009, at 04:50:06 (ZULU)

Medicjim.....you're correct. But, if I thought that there was a chance of having to USE or NEED a distributor wrench, I'd toss one in there. QuikClot isn't that expensive, so I keep three or four of them in my personal first aid kit, along with an "Israeli" pressure bandage, a couple of CAT tourniquets, a three inch 14 ga cath needle, two different airways several dressings and bandages. Also, two Ascherman chest seals and two four-packs of Cialis. Semper Paratus....one never knows.

Charles Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, January 5, 2009, at 15:09:38 (ZULU)

MK4 I saw that posted the other day somewhere. That SASS thing would be a lot of hoot! I've got some issues in February. I think I'll have to check into the dates and things. I suck at SASS anyway it couldn't hurt me. I'm still pretty slow about things due to the heart crap though. I went to OK city for a shoot and made it almost through before the ICD put me on my knees as I walked off the 6th stage. That started other issues that I'm still getting straightened out.

Good to see you all again. I've slowed a lot but the devil don't want me underfoot and there's a long list at the other place so I'm still around.

Brogers
Monday, January 5, 2009, at 15:14:05 (ZULU)

Funny thing happened yesterday at our Sacto LR Tac match. I show up with my GA Precision .243 (17 lbs. AND a muzzle brake) and USO scope. That pig of a rifle is not good for much more than winning matches, but it's damn good for that. Shoots those little 115 DTAC's at about 3K fps like laser beams. Anyway I fully expected to extend my little winning streak. Got my ass handed to me by a friend shooting a bone stock factory PSS in .308 with an old B&L fixed 10X scope! Damn that hurt! I love it though and I fell asleep laughing about it. He earned that one the hard way by catching the SLIGHTEST little wind shifts. I'm sure if we traded rifles he would have beaten my by an even larger margin.

I think this rifle has been teaching me to get lazy and cut corners...

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Monday, January 5, 2009, at 17:46:37 (ZULU)

"a three inch 14 ga cath needle"

Chuck...

You ever roll one of those puppies over the 3rd or 5th rib (depending on location) into the intercostal space? Has your medic taught you how to diagnose a tension hemo-pneumo? That's pretty fancy stuff for a shooter... not saying you shouldn't play, just that if you are gonna carry the kit, you better know your 'shit' <BG>

medicjim
Monday, January 5, 2009, at 18:21:21 (ZULU)

MedicJim....uh, yeah. I don't carry it if I can't use it. I learned about needles and stuff like that a few years ago during the late, great Southeast Asia wargames.

Like, make sure you go over, not under, the rib, to avoid the nerves and arteries. And I like the cath because you don't have to leave the sharp in the cavity. Of course, you can yank the whole thing out and stick him later if needed. We play with sticking IV's in each other from time to time, to keep the feel.

We get training an this stuff at least twice a month. It's essential knowledge over here. Um, by the way, we're critically short of medics over here, if you're interested. If you have you're national registry quals up to date, you might just get snapped up. :)

Charles S. Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Monday, January 5, 2009, at 19:14:37 (ZULU)

CDC and Duman...

>"Duman: OAL makes a big difference in my HBV. Its rounds are 2.94". They look a little funny but they shoot much better than 2.75"ish. Your Stealth may be throated the same.

TIFWIW.

CDC'"<

Me too!

My OAL for my 308 Winchester HBV is about the same as CDCs... I think they all are!

I opened up the magazine box so I could feed the longer rounds from the box - it is a real tack holer.

I think I told CDC how to do that, but C.R.A.F.T. is sneakin' in and I can't remember skit! :))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, Da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, January 5, 2009, at 20:21:11 (ZULU)

Chuck, that's great that you are up on that stuff, it could definitely make a difference.... as could quik clot...but only in your circumstance. You folks are way ahead of the stateside civvies, as I'm sure you know considering where you came from.

In Duman's case, he is far less likely to need to treat a tension hemo-pneumo or uncontrollable bleeding due to blast. He's gonna see a simple GSW, blunt trauma or other med emergency....there simply aren't many IED, land mine or multi-GSW events in CONUS. He also likely isn't gonna get the combat medic train up nor have access to a squad medic and rapid evac

Regarding the job... I'm doing pretty good at my current "pretend to be a corporate type" gig and my two small children mean I'm not going OCONUS in the next decade unless I have to.

medicjim
Monday, January 5, 2009, at 22:31:10 (ZULU)

Howdy Gents:

Well I'm finally back from the sandbox! I have also finally PCSed from Germany!! Thank god!! I got home and pulled out my old stick. Supprisingly after 4 years it looked just like I left it! Wahoo! Took it out planning to go hunting that weekend, and put it on some paper... well I couldn't get it to group for the life of me! I was using my old handloads which used to group .25 to .6 all day long. Now they were done with varget and had been siting in the garage for 4 years, so weather could have played with it, but I was very upset and had to nix the hunting trip. I am looking into starting over with my handloads and was wondering about some help. I am shooting .308 Win, Originally I was getting 2900ish fps with Nosler J2 155gr. Was thinking about going over to the AMAX, cause I use it for hunting and target shooting. But now comes the powder question... What other powder should I use? I have only used Varget, but due to being in the Army and not knowing whats going to happen next, I want something that will handle atmospheric change better. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!

I plan on being in the states for atleast another year, so that will be nice. I just assumed command of the US Army Sapper Leader Course at FLW, MO. It will keep me very busy for the next couple months, but if any of you guys plan on being in the area, hit me up, I'll make time to grab a beer, and hopefully send some lead down range with ya. I'll be getting married in may time frame (she wants to learn how to shoot) but I'll be back here right after that.

As always thanks ahead of time for the help, I know it's a newbie question, but there are way too many hits on the search to find answers. Thanks again.

Mayhem

Mayhem
Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 03:51:51 (ZULU)

Mayhem:

You may have some issue other than the powder. Having said that, no powder reacts well to poor storage conditions, if that is indeed your issue. Varget is among a family of powders that is supposed to have minimal change as environmental conditions (temperature) change. That would be as loaded ammunition, not loose powder. Powder lasts longest when stored in cool, dry (stable) conditions. Upper extremes in temperature and humidity will reduce the life of powder. Attics and non-climate-controlled garages are poorer choices than basements and climate controlled spaces. Degraded powder will have an unusual acrid odor, possibly accompanied by reddish dusting.

Just for giggles, can you try some new primers with your other existing components?

Do you have any existing loaded ammunition that you can use as a comparison reference? What about bore fouling or corrosion in the barrel as a possible source of reduced accuracy? Is the stock wood or synthetic?

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 04:21:35 (ZULU)

Happy New Year to All,

I want to try out the Mothers Polish in my tumbler but need a bit of help. Is this a powder product or the paste form? How much do you use and how do you apply it in the tumbler? There is also a"Mothers" polish that is a semi-liquid form, does anyone have any experience with this? I'm cleaning up a bunch of 223 range brass that ranges from pretty clean to pretty grubby so this is the time. Any and all comments will be greatly appreciated.

W6 and Thanks,

Erik in Kodiak

Erik
Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 04:41:49 (ZULU)

Rod: Thanks for the info, I have been out f the game for so long, I'm having to re-learn all my stuff.

The rounds fired were all loaded 4 years ago, so the powder was inside a cartrige, didn't get to smell it or look at it.

I didn't have the time or the tools to scope the bore. I looked down it, and it was shiny. Thats not to say that there wasn't some corrosion somewhere in there. I'll run it by a smith shop before I take it out again.

So Varget is still the choice powder for yall? Anyone know a good place to get some, everywhere I have been has been sold out of powder completely.

Starting over sucks, and with the shipping company the way they are... I have had to give away 4 lbs of Varget in my time in the Army.

Thanks again for all the help!

Mayhem

Mayhem
Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 05:07:06 (ZULU)

As of right this minute, Midway has Varget. It isn't cheap.

Welcome home, Mayhem. And thanks.

CDC'
Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 05:35:41 (ZULU)

B Rogers - Good to see you. Now we just need Wes and Sinister back here......

Mayhem - Welcome home. Were you sniping in the box? The reason I ask, is that I have found when I spend my time shooting my carbines and pistols, when I come back to the bolt gun I find I have lost that last little bit of edge and I have gone from shooting 10 shots into an inch or less, to "WTF!" type groups. That last bit of edge, for me, is pretty easy to gain with a few hundred rounds of practice, and just as easy to lose if I go for a few months without serious practice and focus on fundamentals. Maybe some nice, slow dry fire sessions to revisit the fundamentals and then another trip to the range is in order before you start wondering about your cartridges. I'm not in the .mil, so take it with a grain of salt if you like, and I hope you don't take offense. I'm more relating my experience when switching platforms and I don't get to shoot the precision stuff for a period of time. I can shoot fairly well. There is a hog or two here that would vouch for that.

Cartridge OAL - my Salvage had the same issue and I wound up with the exact same OAL - 2.94 - to get close to the lands. CDC is right - they do look funny! The thing I always wondered about, was if that extra case volume it created did anything to the starting pressure and subsequent accuracy.

Advanced medic stuff - the trainer I have worked with has recommended some medic classes revolving around trauma and GSWs including some of the subjects you gents are talking about. I think Pat Rogers was the instructor but don't quote me on that. As another option. our little group of training buddies includes a current, fully qualified Paramedic, and there has been talk of having him teach our group both basic and advanced first aid, including doing sticks and stuff. The caveat was everyone would have to both do them, and have them done, which I understand is a standard deal for this type of training.

Is that sufficient to give medicjim a heart attack? :-O

Out for now.....

Geoff M
WI, USA - Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 06:23:25 (ZULU)

'yote: Welcome home.

CatDude: "I think I told CDC how to (open up the magazine box), but C.R.A.F.T. is sneakin' and I can't remember skit! :))"

You remembered that skit right. I have it on Zip Disk, 8 track tape or something.

Geoff M: "Now we just need Wes and Sinister back here..."

Rick would be on my short list.

CDC'
Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 12:10:40 (ZULU)

Geoff - IV therapy in trauma is WAY over-blown. Focus your advanced training on airway management and techniques for keeping the fluid inside the intended distribution system (human body). Using direct pressure, TQ and even cross clamping spurting vessels is damn effective....

Airway is very important....VERY

medicjim
Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 14:16:25 (ZULU)

Hey Bumz...

My e-mails will be a bit slow for the next few days, cuz I'm moving my accounts around. If you don't get an answer right away, don't worry, I WILL get back to you.

The current e-mail address will still workie - but it will be forwarded to a new place (not set up yet).

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 14:57:17 (ZULU)

Geoff- No offence at all. I was not sniping over there. I did do a little "precsion" shooting with a Draganov. Well as precision as that can be. I also took out our SDMs and taught them how to use their M-14s effectively. You are prob right though, I didn't feel as comfortable as I used to. Guess that means another trip to the range. Only problem here is to use the ranges on post, they want us to register our firearms with the Provost Marshall.

CDC- Thanks for the heads up on Midway, I am still transient as of right now, but once I get an actual mailing address, I'm gonna grab some up.

Mayhem

Mayhem
Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 15:19:03 (ZULU)

Mayhem,

Welcome back. I checked with three distributors and none of them have Varget! When I checked on Midway the retail price was the same as my dealer price. I'm waiting for a call from one of my friends at Hodgdons to find out what's going on. I can only assume it's panic buying; but will let you know what I find out.

Drop me a note when you get a chance. I'm only about sixty miles NE of you.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The cloudy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 16:11:44 (ZULU)

CDC, thanks I hope/wish we had all the old crew back.

I think O' is causing a lot of panic buying out around here anyway and the Gun Shows are all out of ammo and components. Everybody seems to be in fear of some kind of huge tax or another Brady type bill from our virtual Congress. Some say "They better not come for my guns!" But it doesn't work that way. They just pass laws so restrictive you can't carry them anywhere but inside your house and penalty is so big it doesn't pay to have them around. re. Australia. perhaps that won't happen since everything else is tettering on disaster it may not be worth a Disabled Govt.'s time to pursue at this point but I expect we will see a attempt to grab control of the firearms by the clowns we have now.

Varget is still hard to beat. I use 4895 a lot these days but Varget will still do the job. Trend still seems toward Varget around here.

The only thing constant seems to be the prairie wind hereabouts.

Brogers
Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 16:36:08 (ZULU)

Eric:

The polish I use for brass is "Mother's Mag & Aluminum Polish", it comes in jars as a paste.

http://www.mothers.com/02_products/05100-05101.html

Try about 1-2 oz in 2 lbs of corn cob. Run it for at least an hour to get it worked in before you run brass thru it.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 16:41:47 (ZULU)

Mayhem:

If you have a hard time finding Varget, IMR4895 or H4895 would also be good powder choices for .308 Win with 155g projectiles.

(see recent postings on same).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 16:48:12 (ZULU)

I'd echo that. I got into a 30-06 hvy bbl last year in one of those camo savage models that somebody did on a special run. After a lot of fooling around it began to perform surprisingly well out at the 1k mark. with 155 hornady low drags it shot pretty close to 1 moa when the wind is down. (hardly ever out here) But it seems like the extra little umph helps at that range but I'm prone to fooling myself sometimes. I use 4895 in that load. I saw Mike Miller had converted to some scenars also. Is that a trend?

Brogers
Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 19:02:04 (ZULU)

Hawgs,

My buddy at Hodgdon Powder just called. They were caught short on rifle powder and are still trying to catch up. There are two "containers" of mostly Varget on the way right now and should be here any day. Rifle powder is in very short supply; but shotgun type powder has hardly moved. This buying frenzy started back in November and hasn't let up yet. If you happen to be a black powder shooter you might be interested to know that Hodgdon Powder just purchased Goex.

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The cloudy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 20:08:48 (ZULU)

'yotie...

Scenars are the trend (since I mentioned then her about 3 or 4 years ago.

They advantage is that they have the BC of the SMK 190, but the weight of a 155, so you can drive them F-A-S-T like a 155, and they don't loose velocity like a 155 - once launched, they fly like a 190, so you get the best of both worlds at long distances.

I am surprised that a US bullet maker hasn't come out with a similar bullet - there is nothing secret about it - it is about as long as a 190 SMK, and it is mostly air space in the front.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 20:16:24 (ZULU)

Mayhem; How did that Drug shoot? I've heard a lot of tales but never tried one myself or had a report by someone I trust.

Brogers
Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 20:16:42 (ZULU)

I am pleading guilty as OJ again of asking questions I knew the answer too! I remember when you brought that up long long ago. It's so much better when YOU say it! I didn't know what a Scenar was back then.

Prayer time,I bows me head and stares at me shoe laces; "Devil don't make me do that no mo!"

Brogers
Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 22:47:27 (ZULU)

Catman; you remember when you were seeking those early A-max Hornady's with the long nose. They almost matched the Scenars and then they rounded the nose a ruined it all without changing the BC in the literature. I still have some by the way I found on a Colorado dealers back shelf a while back. Only problem was getting them in the magazine because of their length.

Brogers
Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 22:50:18 (ZULU)

Any of you guys notice a subtle change in America's attitude towards Israel over the last 4 or 5 years???

I guy came to the house today to do some cable TV stuff, and he was saying that it's "toooooo bad" what's happening to those poor people in Geezer (Gaza).

So I asked what he meant, and he went on and on about the Jews were killing all the innocent people over there - like mommies and kids.

So I asked him was he was aware that Gaza started it by sending motors and rockets at Israel and killing innocent Israeli mommies and kids?

So he says, it's not the "Geezer" people's fault, cuz their government did it (The Geezerian govt).

So I asked him if he was aware that the Gaza people have been attacking Israel for ~60 years, and he looked at me like I was crazy.

Rosanna Barr (Miss American expert on all things "FAT"), has a blog, and today she is saying that Israel is nothing but a bunch of Jewish Nazis.

I have been noticing stuff like this for 4 or 5 years, but it seems that the current mis-reporting and "drive by" coverage of the current stage of the conflict has raised the anti-Israeli attitudes to a new all time high.

If Israel falls, it will take the whole middle east with it.

Very badd!

But what troubles me the most is that a whole nation (the USA) could be so poorly informed in this day of "modern communications"!!!

:(((

And I can't understand the Jews in America supporting the Democrats - who have sold them down the river so many times that they should get ferry service.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, January 6, 2009, at 22:55:09 (ZULU)

Greetings,

Welcome back and thank you for your service to this country.

Anybody using 4064 with 155s?

Pat II
Wednesday, January 7, 2009, at 02:50:08 (ZULU)

'Lito,

The election wasn't proof enough of just how retarded and ignorant the American people are? That was on TV 24/7. The Israeli deal is a mere footnote.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, January 7, 2009, at 03:33:55 (ZULU)

While the 155 Scenar was far from my idea I like it alot. I shoot that bullet far more than anything else. I like a 1x11.25 twist for it. I dont care if the rifle is 20 or 30" I run my 155 Scenars through it. LOL

Catman, Berger just came out witha 155.5 Grain bullet that BC seems exactly the same as the Scenar to me (Berger is sponser of F TR Team and these are issued for comp)

MIke/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Wednesday, January 7, 2009, at 05:14:01 (ZULU)

CatDude or anybody else: Have you run 155 Scenars through a HBV or any other .308 Winnie? UnDude likes a 11.25" twist. I don't know the HBV's, does it stabilize the Scenars adequately? How accurate were they? What powder/charge? What was the average speed? What was the OAL?

CDC'
Wednesday, January 7, 2009, at 07:04:22 (ZULU)

Michael...

The Berger does not have the same BC - it a fair amount LOWER - the Scenar is much more slippier ;)

It is probably the bestest design out there in 30 cal long range bullets.

The 308 shooting 155 Scenars will shoot as flat as a 300Win Mag shooting 190 SMKs, at any range, even past 1,000 yds.

CDC and Pat II

It will shoot in 12" twists, though I am a believer that if you are going to have a 308 riffle built, it should be on a 10" twist (the infamous 3.5" computer disk was shot with a 10" twist).

I don't remember the OAL for the Scenar, but they were seated to touch... they were accurate!

Good powders for the 308/155 Scenar are Varget (who wudda thunk it?? ;)))... 4064, 4895, 4320... and others in that range.

Velocities are in the 2900-2950 range with Varget.

You can get 3000 fps if you pull the trigger hard!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, January 7, 2009, at 11:13:55 (ZULU)

Just checking in...still kicking.

Joe M
Wednesday, January 7, 2009, at 12:14:56 (ZULU)

Lookie Here !!

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=new_products

And here !

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=bullets&page=bc&stock_num=2156&bullettype=0

Regards,

Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, Iced Joisey, Usa - Wednesday, January 7, 2009, at 12:37:31 (ZULU)

Maj Joe: Check in and kick more often.

CDC'
Wednesday, January 7, 2009, at 12:39:29 (ZULU)

CDC,

1-12 HBV

Stay safe

Calvin

Calvin
e-burg, MD, U.S.A - Wednesday, January 7, 2009, at 13:40:46 (ZULU)

The British are learning, are we next?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

Sharon

Larry J. Porter
Boonies of the Panhandle, Texas, USA!!!! - Wednesday, January 7, 2009, at 15:20:15 (ZULU)

Has anyone had their hands on the Keltec RFB? I am not a big fan of their products but the bullpup design of this 308 carbine looks intriguing. I know it is not due out until next month but I thought someone here may have tested it.

Ken or Marius I need to change my email address.

Thanks

Keith

Keith
North Central, WV, - Thursday, January 8, 2009, at 02:16:51 (ZULU)

Mike/Undude,

You say that you run the 155's through a 20" tube? What velocity are you getting? There are some that say that the Scenars are at their best at longer ranges (600+) at 2950 fps or better. Anything under that and performance suffers badly at LR. Mainly because of bullet design. Lots of dead space up front.

I've got a 20" gas gun that I'm playing with and thinking that the Scenars would not be the best bullet for that rifle based on the aforementioned theory. Got any data in that area?

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, January 8, 2009, at 03:46:57 (ZULU)

From KelTec...

"The release of the RFB Carbine is being delayed 30 to 60 days. Expect the first shipment by February of 2009.

The delay is due to a re-tooling effort aimed at adjusting production in order to precede any future negative legislative actions that are likely imminent due to the incoming administration."

Crazy times.

LTChip
Thursday, January 8, 2009, at 05:04:18 (ZULU)

re: Scenars

The Cdn master distributor for Lapua says driving the Scenars too hard will open up groups. He also mentioned that as a VLD design they poorly tolerate much "junp" to the chamber throat, so seating them long is a good thing.

Lapua factory .308 Win loading for the 155g Scenar is 860 m/sec in a 660mm brl. (SAE conversion approx. 2822 ft/sec in approx. 26" brl.) Lapua datasheet claims that loading would still be travelling at 381 m/sec at 1000m (1250 ft/sec). That would still be supersonic at standard temperature and pressure, if that matters to you.

I try to load the 155g Scenars in .308 Win for 2850 ft/sec in a 24" Rock brl. Longest range I can readily access is 800m. Since I am using a Savage 110 with the longer action magazine box, I can seat to minimal throat jump w/o running out of magazine box length.

http://www.lapua.com/fileadmin/user_upload/esitteet/LapuaCenterfireCartridges.pdf

I doubt there is any reasonable lower velocity threshold with the Scenars, but of course more velocity is usually better at long ranges. (less trajectory, less wind drift for starters).

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Thursday, January 8, 2009, at 16:59:35 (ZULU)

hay all

lito

sory to say but i dont think i cen do what you ask for.

im to old for the army whit my 50+- years.

ill see if one of the younger lads cen .

see on tv ,idf didn't send the army reserve in to combat yet...

"Here's one from SniperCountry!!"

avi

avi
haifa, is, is - Thursday, January 8, 2009, at 18:01:54 (ZULU)

“Any of you guys notice a subtle change in America's attitude towards Israel over the last 4 or 5 years??? “

I agree with you Lito and I think this relates back to the fact that Israel is becoming less and less likely to listen to the US govt. when it comes to responding to threats/attacks. I believe it started back in GW1 when the US couldn’t stop the thirty-some scuds landing in Israel. We went in with the Patriot but if you followed things over there the Israelis built their own system (Arrow) that works better than the patriot. They built it with support from us but the bottom line is our system couldn’t protect them to their liking so they got their own system.

Israel is being pushed hard by the Arab world and we have been holding them in check and I think they are getting tired of showing restraint. I don’t think our govt can control them the way they used to and I think they are letting the US media paint them in a bad light if they want.

The Israelis latest action is a release of frustration and show of force. They are tired of being picked at and decided to show Hamas and others that they have had enough. If Israel falls the Middle East will have a big bloody nose before it is over and it won’t be limited to Palestine, Iraq and Syria will feel their wrath before they go down. However, I don’t think that will happen. Israel is a stabilizing factor in that region for the west. The ME knows that the US and other infidel nations can use Israel as a safe stepping off point if they need to take action in that area. Jews in the US as well as Christian still has a strong connection to the Holy Lands and they won’t let it fall under Arab control.

As I ramble on here I realize I should get to my point. I think the change in attitude falls back to lefts belief that if we just talk to the muslims we can resolve any problems. I have seen this become more and more prevalent, we don’t need to use force let just talk with them, see what we have done to offend them, apologize, and promise not to do it any more and make nice with one another and go our separate ways. I think I am going to get sick just typing that touchy feely drivel. Enough of that back to firearm related stuff.

Steven beat me to the link for Sierra’s 155 HPBT Palma. Their BC beats the 168 HPBT and is close to the 175’s. If you are not going to 1000 yds these may be a good substitute for the Scenars and will probably be more readily available and cheaper.

The RFB is an interesting design. I am not sure I would like the forward discharge is all instances. Here is a video showing its operation with a cutaway rifle.

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/videos/rfb_cutaway.wmv

or click my name.

keith
Thursday, January 8, 2009, at 18:03:39 (ZULU)

Rosterfarians - just a quick fly by......

Got an update on Wes, seems he's doing well. Everything seems to have been successful, and he's taking it much better this time than last. That's not meant as a comment to disparage continued prayer for our good friend though!

Yote Bait, great - GREAT - to see you back too. I knew you were too much gristle for the yotes to chew up.

Happy New Year! May you all find a bit of peace among the tribulations of socialism we're doomed to continue experiencing.

Avi: I've got this book that says "he who blesses Israel, I too shall bless, but he who curses Israel shall be cursed by Me". I sure hope I didn't butcher that quote too much. Bless you and your countrymen, and know there are plenty of folks here pulling for you!

Anyone interested (seriously interested) in a 5-day serious course this coming summer? I'm wanting to put together a course for some time in June. Duman can attest to the quality of instruction in the last one - I choose to learn from the best I can find (with BTDT T-shirts in the closet). The course schedule and topics to be covered are "to be determined" at this point (with significant input from those who are going to attend), but the rough outline would be a cross of intensive shotgun and intensive pistol, with a good bit of vehicular usage (fighting in and around vehicles) thrown in.

Bravo
Thursday, January 8, 2009, at 20:40:57 (ZULU)

Bravo,

I think I'll try to be in better shape for this course. Running around in 98f-100f 8/10-hrs/day, 5-days, really took it out of me last time. We'll have to take "Mr. Sneaky" for a ride on Bobby's bull-dozer... heheheheee....

CDC', Lito - thanks for the heads up on COAL in Stealth with Scenars.

Duman
Friday, January 9, 2009, at 05:16:49 (ZULU)

Bravo, Duman.....eithier one of you plan on being at the semi-auto DDM class at Badlands this coming February? I'm going to have a serious discussion with Hizzoner about some vehicular combat, i.e. fighting in, to and from, same.

Charles Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, January 9, 2009, at 09:36:45 (ZULU)

Charles,

No, I was not planning on that course. Limited time-off, etc.. But I like the idea.

Last summer Nickelback did some stuff with a beat up Isuzu. Pretty cool. He fired off the giggle-gun, insided the truck, tossing brass into the face of one guy... heheheheheee

Duman
Friday, January 9, 2009, at 15:54:49 (ZULU)

Sometime back when someone started boosting the Sceanars, I bought a box. I'd been using the 155 SMK and 4064 and been quite happy, but was hoping the Sceanars would fly significantly flatter way out yonder.

My rifle has 1-12 twist, but shot the Sceanars right at 1 MOA, about 2 MOA right and low from POI @ 200 yards. I was having a hell of a time trying to get a load to run a reasonable SD on velocity. Given the fact that the SMKs were cheaper, more accurate at test ranges and much easier to both find and load, I gave up on the Sceanars.

FWIW, I did some testing with RE-15 so I could throw charges instead of weighing each one. With the 175 SMK, I could get very good groups and excellent SDs. Doesn't seem to shoot quite as flat as loads with 4064, velocities are very similar. Vibration?

Yote, glad to see you're still above ground.

WR Moore
Friday, January 9, 2009, at 16:01:41 (ZULU)

Duman:

I've gained a little respect for the little Isuzu vehicles....we've beaten the shit out of them and they refuse to die. I shot the shit out of one of them, down at ITI in Tejas, and they just kept on ticking. I've seriously thought of getting one for a grocery getter....

What I'd like to do in Grandfield is tow a couple of beaters up there and start doing some "get the F@#& of the X" drills. Make a pickup under live fire and get the hell out of dodge kind of stuff. Incorporate that into the Tactical Carbine course. I'd pay Bobby for the cars, just so that some of the guys would get the training needed to get out of that balled-up scenario.....it ain't just contractors that get inot that, you can find yourself in that in the good ol' USA from time to time.

Charles Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Friday, January 9, 2009, at 17:25:41 (ZULU)

W.R.& Bravo I think they thought it was too calm around here without me stickin my foot in my mouth and stirin the crap all time.

Anyway maybe they just left the door open and for got to throw the dead bolt. I had a dog that came in that way once. He caused a lot of trouble but he kept the rabbits down.

Brogers
Friday, January 9, 2009, at 17:41:46 (ZULU)

I don't know how many of you use Yahoo or are members of any Yahoo Groups but I thought I would pass this on.

You can click my name to get to the referenced site.

"Yahoo is Tracking Group Members

If you belong to ANY Yahoo Groups - be aware that Yahoo is now using "Web Beacons" to track every Yahoo Group user. It's similar to cookies, but allows Yahoo to record every website and every group you visit, even when you're not connected to Yahoo.

Look at their updated privacy statement at

http://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/details.html

About half-way down the page, in the section on cookies, you will see a link that says WEB BEACONS. Click on the phrase "Web Beacons." On the page that opens, on the left find a box entitled "Opt-Out.". In that section find "opt-out of interest-matched advertising" link that will let you "opt-out" of their snooping. Click it and then click the opt-out button on the next page. Note that Yahoo's invasion of your privacy - and your ability to opt-out of it - is not user-specific. It is MACHINE specific. That means you will have to opt-out on every computer (and browser) you use. Please forward this to your other groups. You might complain, too, but I'm not sure if anyone is listening. I remember when they signed all users up to get spam and we had to opt out of that a few years ago.

Please send this to anyone or any group you would like."

Keith
Friday, January 9, 2009, at 19:01:48 (ZULU)

Chuck, I'd love to make it to that class, but I've got just ONE I can do this year - and February is a difficult time for me.

Gonna work out the details with Rich on this class, and I figure that'll be it. Speaking of good classes and fighting from vehicles though, how's TJ doing?

Hopefully we can get some of the exact thing you're talking about integrated into the class I'm wanting to set up. I didn't think it'd be possible, but Rich hinted at it (GRIN)

Funny thing - there were only a couple of classes I really thought about heading back to Gunsite for. The AVOPS course was one of 'em. Given the choice between schools? I'll be back in Okie-homie ASAP. If you can get Bobby to put on a course like you're thinking of though, I'll beg, borrow, steal, or call in every morning with a cough just to go.

Hopefully next time we hook up there, it won't be so brief!

I've got one year and two months (the magic "line in the sand") before I'll deem the boy old enough to start doing this stuff. I'm really looking forward - believe it or not - to a basic pistol course. Then it'll be my turn to play Andy's Dad ;-)

Bravo
Friday, January 9, 2009, at 19:15:01 (ZULU)

Keith,

Thanks for the tip. Maybe we ought to start a "Yahoo is screwing us" group?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, January 9, 2009, at 22:42:52 (ZULU)

Hogs --

good evening all. I've posted an article on the Premier Heritage scope by our own Mike Miller. I've been quite derelect(spelling?) in getting to this - as I don't usually do web authoring.

To read this article if you want - click on my name or go to:

http://www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/PremierHeritageScope.htm

Mike - I'm not a good formatter, so hope this flies --

Other stuff - the shop's got paint on the walls and Marine Corps sniping and history prints on the walls.

Take care all -

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Saturday, January 10, 2009, at 01:21:00 (ZULU)

New Years story....

My hobby's fiddlin' on old Series Rovers..... a friend of mine, former USAF, he'd picked up one in '90 while stationed in England, brought it back w/ him. Retired in '95, became a gunsmith down in Georgia. He started a BBS that deals with guns and Rovers. Not married, no kids. A bit over a year ago he had a stroke, and ended up in the VA. He recovered physically, but he's having issues w/ new memories. Can't drive, can't cook, live on his own... his family relocated him to Texas to a specialty facility. They told his best friend/partner back in GA to scrap the old Rover... instead, he wanted to see if someone on his BBS might be willing to come save it. I was the closest, so, it fell to me.

New Years, I got up early, on the road a bit after 5 in the morning. 3 hours later, left TN into GA, 1 1/2 hours later, passing Atlanta, 1 1/2 hours after that, passing Macon. Meet up w/ his friend and his family, visited, shared stories, etc. Loaded up the Rover, said our goodbyes, then I headed back north. Got it unloaded, returned the trailer, got back home, sat down, and it was 17 hours later (on four hours sleep, having been up for midnight for the New Year).

It's a 1960, it's right-hand-drive. Needs a clutch, brakes, rewiring, it's sporting a roller-brushed paint job. I've 'adopted' it, become its caretaker, since he can't take care of it himself anymore. I wish for anything that he recovers and I could take it back to him, but, realistically, it's sad, a friend and his Rover being separated. I didn't want to see it scrapped or parted or turned into a shop truck, etc., I just wanted to see it end up in a home where someone could deal w/ its quirks.

Anyway....

Leslie
Kingsport, TN, - Saturday, January 10, 2009, at 04:04:19 (ZULU)

Travis, you are welcome but I just passed the tip along. Yahoo is like all the other big internet services. They almost all use some type of data-mining system to gather info on their users. I give them the benefit of the doubt that most of it is benign I just hate the fact they are not more u front with it.

Even the regional grocery stores in the area that use these store discount card are tracking your prchases. It is hard to stay out from under the watchful eye of Big Brother any more but when I get the chance I take it.

Keith

Keith
North Central , WV, - Saturday, January 10, 2009, at 13:19:55 (ZULU)

Leslie...

I love old Rovers - from the Defender on back to the crude ones of the 50's through the 70's

When they stopped bringing in the last of the family (the Defender) and I finely had some money, I called Rover and asked If I could get one and they said they were gone before they hit the USA docks.

So I called the main office and the the guy there was heart broken and said if he had a cargo ship full of the old Rovers they would be sold before they were unloaded - and he said the new station wagons were #&$%.

Hang on to it and bring it back to life.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, January 10, 2009, at 15:34:43 (ZULU)

Leslie,

You likely already know this,but Rover's North, DAP enterprises and Atlantic British are all good sources for Rover parts. I have a Rover that is not nearly as vintage as yours and have had good luck with all of the above. Series owners are a breed apart.

Pat II
Saturday, January 10, 2009, at 18:10:36 (ZULU)

Land Rover Country -

My Materials Science prof in Engineering was a British ex-pat in Canada. (We get a lot of those :-)

Two of his comments from then (say 1974) I still remember.

As best as I can recall, it went something like this:

"Who sells the most cars in North America? It isn't Ford, GM or Chrysler - it's Mr Rust. A Land Rover doesn't have that problem to the same degree, because the body panels are galvanized. I'd like to have one, but my wife won't let me..."

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, January 10, 2009, at 18:50:51 (ZULU)

Test

Marius
Saturday, January 10, 2009, at 20:02:22 (ZULU)

Test

Marius
Saturday, January 10, 2009, at 20:09:48 (ZULU)

Guided bullet?

Shades of the movie "Runaway"...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088024/

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/11/what-if-a-snipe.html

Pentagon Shoots $22 Million Into Guided-Bullet Tech

By Noah Shachtman November 26, 2008

What if a sniper could fire a bullet that changed course in midflight, to hit its target? The Pentagon is handing out nearly $22 million to try to find out.

Darpa, the Defense Department's far-out research arm, announced a pair of contracts last Tuesday, to start designing a super, .50-caliber sniper rifle that fires guided bullets. Lockheed Martin received $12.3 million for the "Exacto," or Extreme Accuracy Tasked Ordnance, project, while Teledyne Scientific & Imaging got another $9.5 million.

If the system works, it'll "provide a dramatic new capability to the U.S. military," Darpa says. "The use of an actively controlled bullet will make it possible to counter environmental effects such as crosswinds and air density, and prosecute both stationary and moving targets while enhancing shooter covertness. This capability would have the further benefit of providing increased accuracy and range while reducing training requirements."

"In other words," Danger Room's Sharon Weinberger wrote last year, "it would be the ultimate sniper round."

Darpa won't say, publicly, how far, how long and how accurate they want the new bullets to be — all that information is classified. But they will say that Exacto should contain a next-gen scope, a guidance system that provides information to direct the projectile, an "actively controlled .50-caliber projectile that uses this information for real-time directional flight control," and a rifle. "Technologies of interest may include: fin-stabilized projectiles, spin-stabilized projectiles, internal and/or external aero-actuation control methods, projectile guidance technologies, tamper proofing, small stable power supplies, and advanced sighting, optical resolution and clarity technologies."

Exacto is one of several projects Darpa is developing to make snipers more accurate and more deadly. The agency has earmarked $7.5 million for a laser-guided bullet program. Darpa gave Lockheed $2 million for advanced sniper scopes that could boost kill rates by tenfold, or more. If the system works out as planned, it would actually allow snipers to remain virtually invisible, lost in the "heat haze" in between them and their targets. Our own David Hambling called the project the "next war's secret weapon."

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, January 11, 2009, at 02:27:08 (ZULU)

laser retro-reflection system to detect sniper optics

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/04/darpa_countersn.html

Lasers Stop Snipers Before They Fire (Updated)

By Noah Shachtman April 26, 2007

Cops and soldiers now have the ability to pinpoint incoming sniper fire. The military's way-out research arm wants to take that a step further, by finding and "neutralizing" shooters before they ever pull their triggers.

If it pans out, Darpa's C-Sniper system "will operate day and night from a moving vehicle... Once detection is made, the C-Sniper system will provide the data and control to point and track the on-board weapon system on the selected target. The decision to engage with the target will be left to the operator."

Darpa doesn't say much about how researchers might pull off this "detection and neutralization of enemy snipers." But the agency does note that "if the system utilizes laser technology then it must be eye safe for all personnel."

For years, military engineers have been working to build a similar system -- using flashes of laser light to "illuminate potential hiding places... and detect retro-reflections from the sniper’s scope," a Rand Corporation report notes. At the Air Force Research Laboratory', this laser-based counter-sniper effort is called "BOSS," short for the Battlefield Optical Surveillance System.

[snip]

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, January 11, 2009, at 02:33:53 (ZULU)

I've been feeling a little old lately. Click and enjoy.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, January 11, 2009, at 04:36:15 (ZULU)

Rovers-I had a yen for one, lo many eons ago. I was looking at several at a dealership and they stated that the body panels were aluminum, over a steel frame.

Why aluminum? "Sheep piss" was the answer. Huh????? Brit farmers raise a lot of sheep and they tote the things around in the back of the Rover. Since sheep aren't bright enough to house....ah, Rover break, the bodies had to be highly resistant to corrosive fluids.

Never did buy one due to parts issues, but would still kinda like a Defender.

WR Moore
Sunday, January 11, 2009, at 14:34:52 (ZULU)

I have always wanted a Land Rover Defender but too rich for me these days

Ken looks good but some photos dropped off. Probably something I did wrong. Hope the guys enjoy the article.

On the Scenars I find they shoot best in 1x11.27 or faster twist. Shorter the bbl faster the twist. This is for groups at 1000 yards. At 100 yards 12 twist works great for me.

I generally run 44.0 grains of H4895 in Military brass and 45.0 grians in Factory Lapua for my mag length loads. I get around 2875 from 20" and that is good enough for that rifles capabilities. In my 22-26" rifles the speed goes up to 2900-2925 or so depending and thta works great. Anyway I look at it it beats the 175 SMKs

Now I ahve been messing with Hornady 155 Amak loaded by Black Hills and that is giving some unbelieveable great groups. Have not shot past 300 yards yet but will soon.

Mike/Undude

MikeMiller
Ca, - Sunday, January 11, 2009, at 18:51:53 (ZULU)

Bought a short wheel base Land Rover (88) in 1968 just before getting married. Blue with a white top. Have a good picture of the Queen and I with it, taken in front of the rocks, in the gun room. Kept it thru one engine rebuild into the early '80s. Wish I still had it. Often wondered why a kidney belt wasn't standard equipment like the hand starter crank.

outa here

markwell

markwell
the Alleghenies, WV, - Sunday, January 11, 2009, at 18:53:32 (ZULU)

$22 million= 44million rounds of M118LR or similar. Which equals about 22000 rds per sniper in the USMC, which is about 11 years ammo allotment. So, double the ammo allotment, schedule far more range time, and have far better snipers NOW, instead of maybe better 20 years from now.

Guided rounds are cool, for artillery and mortars, maybe even tanks and assault guns, not for rifles, EVER.

The laser guided 120mm mortar round, PGMM, development complete, ready for fielding, was canceled recently. Probably cost a couple hundred mil $ in R&D over it's life. End result for the trigger pullers= ZERO. The .mil is notorious for this shit. Keeps the corps and the scientists in cash, but the benefit for the grunts is NIL.

And people wonder why the USG is in debt....

S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Sunday, January 11, 2009, at 19:00:55 (ZULU)

"Guided rounds are cool, for artillery and mortars, maybe even tanks and assault guns, not for rifles, EVER."

Engineers are very often used to provide brilliant solutions to problems that don't exist. Laser sights on handguns are an example.

CDC'
Monday, January 12, 2009, at 03:43:27 (ZULU)

"Laser sights on handguns are an example."

CDC,

Not meaning to sound argumentative,but I personally feel that that statement could be opened up to all guns,not just handguns.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Monday, January 12, 2009, at 06:33:30 (ZULU)

UnPat, "I personally feel that that statement could be opened up to all guns,not just handguns."

If by "guns" you mean "small arms" I would agree.

CDC'
Monday, January 12, 2009, at 11:34:29 (ZULU)

Mike, I have had the 155 a-maxs out to 1000 and the groups were better than 168s/175's fired at the same time during the same conditions. The wind performance seems better than the old 168 match kings but not really better than the 168/175 a max. That was in a 30-06 hvy bbl savage by the way. It's hard to say for sure but that's what I got out of the 50 or so rounds I fired before the wind started blowing the sand bags off the truck hood and took the target down.

Brogers
Monday, January 12, 2009, at 15:05:00 (ZULU)

Lazer sights have some advantages I guess in the fact you don't have to aim down the barrel and you can see it at night but if the target is moving fast and has no back ground I could never hit anything with it. Aiming ahead of the target you can't see where you are and have to go to the tritiums anyway. More gadget to go wrong. I think maybe that one that fits inside the slide on a glock might be ok and get in the way of a draw/concealed carry a lot less. I think I'll just say no to lazers and hope I don't get a critical situation that needs one.

Brogers
Monday, January 12, 2009, at 15:10:10 (ZULU)

.308 match bullets...

I must be a lame shot, my 175 gr sierras are super consistant and the limiting factor is ALWAYS me. You studs shooting 10 rounds groups off bipods in the .2-.3 range might notice a difference, but it's gonna take that level of skill, because they sure as shit perform for average shooters like myself.

I also have not seen the VLD jump issue that everyone talks about with the 155 gr scenars....my 22" 1:11.75 twist rifle takes em' loaded at 2.80 and makes tight little groups all day long.

medicjim
Monday, January 12, 2009, at 16:07:09 (ZULU)

Medicjim:

What *is* the throat jump measurement for your 2.80" OAL 155g loading in your 22" 1:11.75 stick?

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, January 12, 2009, at 16:44:27 (ZULU)

The rifle has maybe 4000 roounds down the tube and was not throated at 2.80 to start with....there is substantial jump

medicjim
Monday, January 12, 2009, at 17:22:15 (ZULU)

hay all

you cen help here ?

clic on my name

avi

avi
dalia, is, is - Monday, January 12, 2009, at 18:26:10 (ZULU)

Subject: For your information!

People all over the world should see this:

1. from sderot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im4KE3nkGA0

2. how Dana feels when the bombs are coming:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kroyMfkoRHA

3. IDF "Israeli Defense Force", the Israeli Army has a broadcast on U Tube

explaining what's going on, and U Tube wants to remove it by using the excuse

that not many people are logging in. Please forward this email, so more people will log in and the IDF will be able to have its voice heard.

Http://WWW.youtube.Com/user/idfnadesk

http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/12/31/israel-takes-battle-hamas-youtube

Thanks

avi

AVI
dalia, is, is - Monday, January 12, 2009, at 18:49:01 (ZULU)

Major networks don't seem to have it...

Helicopter down in the Texas A&M corps of cadets field...no details yet

medicjim
Monday, January 12, 2009, at 22:40:11 (ZULU)

Damn. That Hawk went down at the corner of the old Bonfire field just south of the Cadet Quad. 1 dead, 3 injured.

Prayers out.

sinister. Corps of Cadets, Texas A&M 1978-1982
Tuesday, January 13, 2009, at 02:07:12 (ZULU)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479585,00.html

1 Dead, 4 Injured in Texas A&M Black Hawk Wreck

Associated Press

Monday , January 12, 2009

COLLEGE STATION, Texas —

An Army Black Hawk helicopter crashed Monday in a field on the campus of Texas A&M University, killing one person and injuring four others aboard.

The Army UH-60 helicopter crashed Monday afternoon during training exercises near the Corps of Cadets field on the school's College Station campus, about 100 miles northwest of Houston. No one on the ground and no students were hurt.

A crew of four from the Army National Guard and an Army lieutenant assigned to the school's ROTC unit were the only ones aboard the Black Hawk, Texas A&M spokesman Lane Stephenson said.

Three men were in critical condition at College Station Medical Center, spokeswoman Melissa Purl said.

Another crash victim was at St. Joseph Regional Health Center in Bryan, a spokesman said. That person's condition wasn't immediately known.

Officials did not release the names of the dead and injured.

Witnesses told the Bryan-College Station Eagle they saw five Black Hawk helicopters taking off and landing throughout the day.

Scott Walker said one of two helicopters he watched lift off seemed to lose control and start spinning, Walker said.

"All of a sudden he dropped straight back down into the ground," Walker told the newspaper.

The helicopter, along with 190 cadets in the university's Corps of Cadets, the school's own officer training unit, were participating in the ROTC Winter Field Training Exercises.

Students are on winter break, with classes set to resume Jan. 20.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, January 13, 2009, at 03:02:20 (ZULU)

Just before leaving for infantry school back when I was in the Marine Reserves, I'd gotten a Jeep Cherokee. When we needed a second vehicle, I got a FSJ, a Wagoneer. Growing up, our neighbors had had a CJ5 and a Scrambler, I started wanting to find a CJ to go with... then, I saw and fell for a Defender. And then I found out how much they cost(!). But, something dawned on me.... if a Wrangler's predecessor was a CJ, what was the predecessor to the Defender? And thus, I found myself instantly becoming a Series Rover junkie, with flashbacks to Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, and the Gods Must Be Crazy, and....

My other one, is a '72 SIII 88" station wagon. I got it just before I got out of grad school. I originally meant to just have it as an old vehicle for collecting rocks (I'm a geologist), but the outriggers were starting to rot off... they have replacement ones, but... shipfitters' disease set in....

At the time, I'd moved back to Kingsport as a fella opened a Series Rover parts shop here in town, the Thatched Roof Garage. David, he and I became great friends, and I became a fixture over at his shop. He loaned me one of his spare bays, and I'd get my needed parts from him at a great price, and he'd school me on 'em, like an apprenticeship. I rebuilt mine onto a Marsland galvanized chassis, parabolic springs, a British Wiring harness, Automec brake lines, etc. After welding in new footwells, I galvanized the whole bulkhead, so I wouldn't have to do this again 30 years from now....

David and his wife moved to Tampa a year ago, so TRG is no more, but, we're emailing constantly at work. I've got Rovers North, British Pacific, Rovah Farm, and Rovers Down South's phone numbers in my cell phone. I've also used DAP and Atlantic British, and TLR, also good Series shops.

Rod, the actual reason why the panels are aluminum: in post WWII England, the Rover car company hadn't previously exported, so they were receiving too small of an allotment of steel for gearing up full production of cars again. Maurice Wilks was an engineer there w/ a surplus Willys-MB, that he was having to constantly pull into their shops to repair. When thinking about a replacement, an idea happened, and in '48 the Land-Rover was introduced... the chassis was steel, but aluminum was really cheap since airplane demand was down after the war... the boxy shape was easy/quick to build w/ simple presses.... the Land-Rover instantly became Rover's best selling vehicle, ever, and ended up supporting the rest of the country. The US had Jeep, the rest of the world had Land Rover (until Toyota managed to grow enough....)

Pat II, that's a very kind way of saying that we're nuts... ;) We are, but, we're happy in our insanity, lol....

Well I have a '72 SIII, and now a '60 SII to fix up, so that means that, after I get it done, my next one is gonna have to be a '48-'50 Series I, so I can have one of each of the different Series... just don't tell the wife that I'm already plottin'..... :D

Ok, now back to our regularly scheduled programming.....

Doh! I just realized.... I've got my Savage and my Daly AR, but what I *need* for the Rover is an Enfield! (Okay, trivia obscura: After British-Leyland's demise, British Aerospace got ahold of the Rover company for a number of years (then BMW, then Ford, and now Tata). Back when BA had Rover.... they also bought the parent company that had Enfield... and closed it down.... but they did build the SA-80 and the L1A1 (the British version of the FN FAL).)

Ok, back on arms..... carry on.....

Leslie
Tuesday, January 13, 2009, at 03:18:02 (ZULU)

I can see a laser sight having some benefit to LE in two ways. First and foremost would be intimidation factor. Second (pure speculation here) as a way for several officers to instantly see who is aiming at who when faced with multiple threats. That way they wouldn't have more than one officer covering one bad guy with one or more others not being covered. Actually that's bullshit the second reason is just for SELLING MORE GUNS.

Guy at work explained a fantastic method for pistol shooting. He told me that what I need to do is get a high cap pistol like his Para 16. That way you can look down the left side of the slide and start shooting fast. Then watch for impacts and "walk" them into the target. He was absolutely serious.

I'm about to try my .243 on wild pigs with those little 85 grain Barnes TSX bullets. I'm ready to start loading some but I'm wondering if I can get by without buying more powder. I have lots of H4350 and Varget. Do you think one would be better than the other? Should I just buy another jug of something else? The Hodgdon manual shows Varget with a max of 38 grains at 3,100 or 3,200 fps. I use 41.5 grains of H4350 with my 115 DTACS which run about 3K. I don't think I could get enough in the case for the 85's though. Your thoughts please before I start load developing with bullets that are nearly a dollar a piece.

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Tuesday, January 13, 2009, at 04:47:46 (ZULU)

Lazer Sights:

I see a few problems to lazer sights.

Itty bitty red/green dots dont show what the target is doing.Bullets dont travel like light does.Lazers,like tracers work both ways.

Now,I am not an LEO and I dont pretend to be.A couple of bangs and a squad of guys with guns and high powered flashlights, yelling (enter Agency or Dept of choice here )would be alot more intimidating to me then a few red/green dots.If I were to see streams of red/green light beams dancing across the yard,that means they may be still at a distance enough were I could/may have a chance.Either at escape or defense.

This isnt meant to sound like a warning or anything like that.Just trying to explain that not everyone sees things the same.For the record I am not a criminal,just a another average law abiding citizen giving their 2 cents.Its just an opinion.

I have had an opportunity or two to exterminate a varmint on occaision at night(havent we all?).Given the choice I would much rather use some type of spot light,over a lazer.

Gotta admit tho...Lazers look Tacticooler in the movies.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Tuesday, January 13, 2009, at 08:16:48 (ZULU)

exterminating varmints at night:

i found a couple uses for a spotlight AND a 30mw green laser, when you try to hit a moving target at night

it's kinda cool, but for the most part, it's not very practical

birdshooter
Tuesday, January 13, 2009, at 18:54:17 (ZULU)

Lasers in the IR spectrum are very useful for fighting at night when using NVG's. There's no other good way to aim a rifle when your face is covered with the optics.

Visible lasers, especially green, are useful for warning off the driving challenged idiots in hostile countries before you have to kill them. Most American troops feel regret when they kill the innocently stupid. Some don't shoot based on that regret and that sometimes results in even worse things happening. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Tuesday, January 13, 2009, at 19:33:51 (ZULU)

Does anyone have any experience with the Leupold TMR reticle in the first focal plane? I am looking for the good, the bad and everything in between.

http://www2.leupold.com/products/reticles_TMR.htm

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Wednesday, January 14, 2009, at 03:05:56 (ZULU)

Darren...

They are a very close cousin to the Gen-II reticle. It is nice, with no problems.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, January 14, 2009, at 04:03:58 (ZULU)

Darren,

Just think Gen 2 with lines and no mil-dots. Some say they get a bit hard to see in low light but if you get the illuminated should help offset. FWIW

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Wednesday, January 14, 2009, at 04:58:59 (ZULU)

Laser was the first example that popped to mind. Prison guards are said to find them useful for calming down prisoners who are acting up in the big yard. IR at night sounds interesting.

CDC'
Wednesday, January 14, 2009, at 12:21:05 (ZULU)

Personally I like dots over lines in reticles. I base this on using a P4 Fine reticle for about 3 years, and a Gen II for about 4 years before that. I'm now back to a Premier Gen II in their new scope and like it better than the P4F.

My issue with the lines is that it's harder for ME to keep count of hold offs when I have the power turned down in situations like shooting movers, or in a position other than prone.

A buddy won one of the very first FFP TMR's in a 6.5-20 Lupy. He's a SWAT sniper and had used a 3.5-10 for years with the straight mil dot. He was really excited to get the TMR. After giving it a shot for about a year an a half he went back to the 3.5-10 for his work, which is probably a better scope for LEO work anyway, he thinks so too. He just wasn't happy with how small the reticle got when he turned the power down.

As always this IMHO, and YMMV.

I'll be at SHOT this week, if anyone would like to check out some of the gear I make, stop off at the Rifles Only/Snipers Hide booth and I'd be happy to meet any of you guys. I'll have a bunch of the new rifle slings I've just come out with that GA Precision will now be using on all of their rifles.

Tony Burkes
alvin, TX, United States - Wednesday, January 14, 2009, at 13:38:42 (ZULU)

When I first saw it on the Internet I thought this makes sense. Just last weekend, for the first time, a Leupold TMR was at the local range. Took a look through it and my gut reaction was that since the center had no cross hair, it made me work a bit more to place the center on target. If there was a dot in the center then great but there wasn't. Am I wrong here with my instinct? I do agree with the hash marks, it would seem to make Milling much easier even though I haven't tried that yet. I feel that mildots are easier, and less clutter on the reticle. I think I am going to stick with Gen II reticles.

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Wednesday, January 14, 2009, at 14:45:39 (ZULU)

TMR is great reticle. I like it for shooting little tiny groups but prefer the Gen 2 Mildot for field work

175s shoot great and are easy to shoot. I find the increased velocity of the 155 Scenar makes a difference at 1000 yards though

Slings, been just swamped making slings (Army contract) but will have afew new products out in next couple of months

Mike/Undude

MikeMiller
Ca, - Wednesday, January 14, 2009, at 15:22:48 (ZULU)

Mike, I need to buy a sling from you for a 700 LTR.

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Wednesday, January 14, 2009, at 15:34:14 (ZULU)

Running a convoy, in rush-hour downtown Kabul is a ball-tightening experience on the best of days. Especially on Route -deleted- (Jalalabad Road, or IED Alley). When the idiots are rampant, (if you have a car, it's assumed that you a. have a license, and b. know how to drive, generally, neither is true.)it helps greatly to have something to focus their attention. Cars are strictly "point and shoot" devices to the average local driver. Green lasers are fantastic. Put one of those, especially one of the ones over 20mW range, in someone's face and they get off the X pretty damned quick. Generally since they know that several 147gr boattails are not far behind.....

Charles Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Wednesday, January 14, 2009, at 16:05:09 (ZULU)

Darren my pleasure just give me a jingle and I will get info to send to you 510 919 7286

Lots of new exciting things coming guys.

Mike/Undude

Mike Miller
Ca, - Thursday, January 15, 2009, at 01:50:33 (ZULU)

Osama put out a message yesterday encouraging muslims to join the fight agains Israel. Here is one analysis of his message FYI.

Below is a Michael Stapleton Associates (MSA) Special Report on Bin Laden's most recent audio message. This report was prepared by Madeleine Gruen, January 14, 2009, 1600 hrs EST.

Madeleine Gruen is currently a Senior Analyst for Michael Stapleton Associates. She was formerly an intelligence analyst with the NYPD’s Counterterrorism Division. Her research on extremist and terrorist-group radicalization and indoctrination tactics has been published extensively, and she has presented lectures at numerous conferences, including those hosted by NATO; the Center for Policing Terrorism; the Combating Terrorism Center at West Point; and the Hudson Institute. Gruen is also a senior analyst with the NEFA Foundation and is a contributor to the Counterterrorism Blog. She received her master’s degree in International Affairs from Columbia University.

Summary and Analysis of Osama Bin Laden Statement

Key Points:

•In this message, Osama Bin Laden (OBL) calls for Jihad on behalf of Palestine.

•He does not specify targets, but states in no uncertain terms that the only viable means to defeat Israel and its allies, particularly the United States, is through armed attacks. He calls for the mobilization of Muslim youth to fight Israel, the U.S., and their Western allies in the region.

•He encourages Muslims to overcome their fear of the U.S., stating that the U.S. is weakened due to its economic crisis. He assesses that the United States can no longer sustain its military efforts in the Middle East.

Summary:

•A 22-minute long audio message from OBL, titled “A Call for Jihad to Stop Aggression Against Gaza” was posted to jihadist web site on January 14, 2009.

•The audio file was produced by Al-Sahab Media Production Organization and distributed by Al-Fajr Media Center.

(Analyst’s Note: Al-Fajr Media Center is the official online logistical network for Al Qaeda, which is responsible for disseminating messages from its various military factions.)

•OBL states that it is obligatory for Muslims to engage in Jihad to regain Jerusalem and to liberate Palestine.

•He says that past efforts to liberate Palestine failed due to former Palestinian rulers who “betrayed their country’s trust.”

•Cautions that current leaders of Muslim countries should not be trusted because they are the puppets of the West. He refers specifically to Paul Bremer and President Ayad Allawi, saying that there are representatives like them in every Muslim country who carry out the orders of Western regimes.

•Cautions that listeners should be wary of scholars like Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani and Sheikh Mohamed Syed Tantawi, who give false legitimacy to the West’s representatives.

•(Analyst’s Note: Tantawi, Grand Imam of Al Azhar Mosque and Grand Mufti of Al Azhar University, stirred controversy after he shook hands with Israeli President Shimon Perez at an interfaith dinner held in New York in November 2007. In the past, Tantawi has sanctioned the French ban of headscarves in public schools.)

•Countries are attempting to resolve the war by transferring responsibility to the United Nations.

•He refers to “Islamic groups” who shrug responsibility by requesting “permission” from state leaders to “carry out Jihad to free Palestine.”

•OBL states that it is “a duty to call for obligatory jihad and mobilize the youth in brigades of jihad in the way of God against the Zio-Crusader alliance and their agents in the region, and not to waste the energy of the youth in taking to the streets in demonstrations without carrying weapons.”

•(Analyst’s Note: In past statements, Ayman al Zawahiri has admonished “Islamic groups” that engaged in “non-violent” jihad. He made a direct appeal for members of such groups to make their efforts more meaningful by taking up arms. Examples of non-violent Islamist groups include Hizb ut-Tahrir and the Muslim Brotherhood. These groups have a global presence.)

•Refers to the defeat of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan despite meager military capabilities.

•He claims that the United States has already been defeated, which he refers to as “the Hitler of the age” and a “rhinoceros” (referring to the U.S.’s unipolarity) “whose horn we broke, whose fortress we pounded, and whose tower we demolished.”

•Tells listeners that the U.S. is staggering from the attacks launched by the mujahideen. He adds that the U.S. is also suffering from a “human, political, and financial drain.”

•Because the United States now appears weak, no one is afraid of it, nor does anyone respect U.S. authority.

•Muslims should no longer fear the United States, and fear is simply an excuse not to fight.

•OBL quotes various Western government officials stating that the era of U.S. dominance is over.

•States that Israel has attacked Palestine because of its desperation over the fact that its greatest ally, the United States, is weakening. It is an attempt to take advantage of the last few weeks of the Bush administration.

•(Analyst’s Note: This statement suggests OBL’s doubt that the Obama administration will support Israel as aggressively as the Bush administration had).

•Further, the United States is no longer fiscally strong enough to persist in wars.

•OBL mentions “reports” that indicate 75% of American people are glad for Bush’s departure from office.

•(Analyst’s Note: This statement suggests to listeners there would not be American public support for continued military involvement in the Middle East).

•OBL does not refer to Obama by name, but says that the incoming administration is swallowing a double-edged sword.

•If the U.S. withdraws from its engagements in the Middle East then that would be considered a military defeat.

•If the U.S. persists then it will drown in economic crisis.

•Power over Palestine will not be restored through a democratic process; control will only come through a total defeat of the United States militarily.

Keith
North Central, WV, - Thursday, January 15, 2009, at 13:45:11 (ZULU)

OBL is dead...communications made in his name are bogus

medicjim
Thursday, January 15, 2009, at 14:51:12 (ZULU)

jim: I'm not calling bullshit, I'm just asking; How do you know OBL is dead?

CDC'
Thursday, January 15, 2009, at 16:39:28 (ZULU)

The belief that he is alive serves his agenda, the belief that he is dead disables any ability to drive an agenda in his name...

Therefore, he is dead until such time as he proves that he is alive.

medicjim
Thursday, January 15, 2009, at 17:25:08 (ZULU)

Bring me a head on a stick.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, January 15, 2009, at 17:51:12 (ZULU)

It seems we ARE what we are perceived. If we are perceived weak and no longer viable in our ability to persist where we must then we will be defeated in the eyes of the world. Unfortunately "We have met the enemy and he is us!" POGO a great American once said that I believe. When we attempted to attack with carpenters and hospital ships I thought we had made a great error at that time. It would have been more impressive had we laid a few megatons out there in the desert somewhere and insisted we had destroyed the "weapons of mass destruction" with the first strike. The radiation would have prevented too close inspection and the rumor would have persisted that the United States was not to be messed with. I supported the effort to Liberate Iraq but I don't think I ever bought into the fact that Iraq would remain free. When I called it another Vietnam I was ostersized including here on SC. I'm not complaining about that but I hate to see my fears confirmed.

Brogers
Thursday, January 15, 2009, at 19:07:20 (ZULU)

Stratfor (Strategic Forecasting) has a different take on the message:

Al Qaeda: The Insignificance of bin Laden's Latest Message

STRATFOR TODAY » January 14, 2009 | 2049 GMT

Summary:

As-Sahab, al Qaeda’s media arm, released an audio recording of Osama bin Laden on Jan. 14. The message is the first from bin Laden since May 2008. However, even if the tape were recorded recently (and there is not conclusive evidence that it was), the threats and warnings issued by bin Laden are neither new nor particularly threatening. Issuing messages appears to be all bin Laden can do lately — hardly indicative of the level of capability needed to maintain recruiting efforts and ensure al Qaeda’s position as the vanguard of the militant Islamic movement.

Analysis:

In his first audio message since May 2008, al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden issued an audio recording through As-Sahab, al Qaeda’s media arm, on Jan. 14. The message comprised statements about the ongoing Israeli operation in Gaza and warnings to U.S. President George W. Bush’s successor about the challenges of inheriting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. In the message, bin Laden focuses on Bush and his cooperation with Israel in its operation against Hamas in the Gaza strip, and he urges Muslims to support the mujahideen with “money and men.” He goes on to link the world’s economic troubles to the United States’ missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, saying that if the next U.S. president “withdraws from the war, that would be a military defeat, and if he goes on with it, he’ll drown in economic crisis.”

Bin Laden and the core al Qaeda leadership (known as al Qaeda prime) do not matter much anymore, beyond their symbolic power. The continual release of statements without attacks means that these tapes are falling on deaf ears. Al Qaeda prime has failed to pull off an operation since the London bombings in 2005 — and even that attack appears to have involved only a tangential link to the grassroots jihadist network behind the plot. Even in South Asia, where al Qaeda is active, it relies heavily on local and regional allies for cover. Bin Laden has become an old revolutionary who refuses to retire though his time has passed.

While the tape’s content appears to indicate that it was made recently, it has not yet been confirmed that it is an entirely new communication. From what Stratfor has read of the statement so far, bin Laden does not even mention two of the incidents that have occurred to strengthen al Qaeda since his last message: the Nov. 26 attacks in Mumbai and militants’ gains in northwest Pakistan. Some other strange omissions include the failure to mention U.S. President-elect Barack Obama by name (bin Laden refers only to “Bush’s successor,” although he does reportedly directly quote Vice President-elect Joe Biden) and the absence of the online advertising and hype that usually precede such a release from bin Laden.

The fact that bin Laden spent most of the message railing against the United States and Israel for the actions in Gaza does not mean that the tape is recent. Israel has constantly been involved in Gaza operations, and this subject has been one of bin Laden’s main grievances on which he has spoken frequently. Compared to the message released Jan. 6 by Ayman al-Zawahiri (bin Laden’s deputy), which commented specifically on Obama and on Egypt’s failure to intervene in the Israeli strikes against Gaza, this message appears to go into much less detail.

Regardless of the content of bin Laden’s message, the fact remains that the connection between these tapes and attacks carried out by al Qaeda prime is very weak. This is the seventh tape (counting both audio and video) bin Laden has made since 2007 with no significant attack to back it up. In recent years, al Qaeda prime has really posed a physical threat only to South Asia — an area of operations whose size hardly corresponds to al Qaeda prime’s frequent calls for global jihad.

Without attacks to back it up, rhetoric appears to be bin Laden’s sole remaining weapon. And meanwhile, other militant Islamist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah, and countries like Iran, are gaining much greater prestige as they confront their traditional enemies, like Israel, head-on. Without the street credibility of being a legitimate revolutionary threat, bin Laden and al Qaeda prime lose the ability to attract recruits and money — and bin Laden’s appeal to supporters for both in his latest message is evidence of his declining stature.

Some of the omissions surrounding the tape also indicate al Qaeda prime’s struggle to stay alive. If al Qaeda were healthy, a mention of the Mumbai attacks and the gains militants have made against the government in northwestern Pakistan would have been expected. However, al Qaeda prime’s inability to capitalize on those gains shows just how much U.S. airstrikes have pinned the group down. The failure to advertise the message and hype its release indicates that al Qaeda prime faces a significant risk in getting an original tape from the source and distributing it online. Tipping off the United States that a tape would soon be released could compromise communication networks already worn thin by U.S. strikes in northwestern Pakistan.

Bin Laden (and other al Qadea prime talking heads) will continue to make these tapes and, given that the al Qaeda leader has orchestrated successful attacks in the past, some will continue to listen to him. But without a major action to back up his threats, bin Laden’s influence over the militant Islamist movement will fade. However, this does not mean the militant Islamist movement itself will fade. As the actions of groups like Hamas and Hezbollah (and Hezbollah’s patron, Iran) show, plenty of people are prepared to become the world’s top Islamist militant.

©Stratfor 2009

Simone
New Mexico, USA!!! - Thursday, January 15, 2009, at 19:10:11 (ZULU)

I wouldn't advise getting caught trying to make a deep dusk shot with a dot/crosshair as opposed to Gen 2 or even standard Duplex which seems to have the advantage in low light to about anything else. The light tends to reflect on the duplex posts and locate the center much better. Lit crosshairs have come a long way but still tend to obscure much of the arriving available light and are invaribly too bright when something unexpected happens in the semi dark glow of a receeding or approaching sun. The evening situation is more critical as a rule because the situation is worsening with time. In the morning you may have a few moments to wait for the light. It would be nice to make the shot and skip out before day returns in that case however. One shot one kill then scamper seems to work best in some situations.

Brogers
Thursday, January 15, 2009, at 19:19:44 (ZULU)

Click my name. Guy kaboomed an SP101. Interesting pictures. He claims the three parts of the cylinder were about 50 yards apart, but the topstrap held. Said it just felt like a .357!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, January 16, 2009, at 13:51:33 (ZULU)

In a pawn shop the other day, I saw a Henry survival rifle, one of those break-down 22-LRs.

It looks like it would be fun to keep in the truck for plinking, etc..

Do any of you guys have one of these? What do you think of it? What do they normally go for, NIB?

Duman
Friday, January 16, 2009, at 15:52:54 (ZULU)

I think you are referring to the AR-7 Survival rifle. Those have been around for 40 years or so with different makers and different stock colors depending on what the market was at the time. It was supposed to be a Air Force survival rifle contract but I'm not sure if it found it's way to any Military deployment. It works and shoots fairly well. The sights are kind of crude but its reliable and stows away. Most of them rusted away on somebody's bass boat but the Henry company has been building a camo finish version for a while. Not a bad little toy but about $250 to $300 depending on where you get it today I believe. It cost about $40 to $60 when they first started making it.

Brogers
Friday, January 16, 2009, at 16:19:27 (ZULU)

As of 11:19 today, Midway has Winchester .308 brass for about $172/500 delivered. Don't count on it being there for long.

Duman: If it is a AR-7, I'm not a fan. As Bill says, sights are crude, trigger is bad and the zero walks all over the place. For a tiny take-along-anywhere-.22 I'd rather have a CZ 452 SCOUT with a peep sight, though it doesn't have the good CZ trigger. Click.

Advice worth what you paid for it.

CDC'
Friday, January 16, 2009, at 16:20:42 (ZULU)

entertainment:

music/video - Matt Minglewood - "Kandahar(Keep your head down)"

Savoy Theatre,Glace Bay,N.S.

December 28th,2006

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv5O6EoHDDI

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, January 17, 2009, at 02:35:25 (ZULU)

Coooolldd here in Northern Va. Had to have MR. Heater (125,000 btu) run for about an hour blasting heat on my tractor engine before it would start.

If you can stand it, get out in this cold and try to work, move around in it, etc.... Be able to deal with it in the event you end up getting stuck out in it for a period of time.

Also - off topic - you no longer need no stinkin house - check this out. Click my name or go here:

http://www.unicat.net/en/info/UXL17HD.html

Whenever you're ready just fire it up and head to Badlands, Storm Mountain, CatShooter's place, etc...

Take care all,

Ken

Ken Hunter
Nokesville, Va, Keep America - God Fearing, Armed and Free!!!.. - Saturday, January 17, 2009, at 21:40:07 (ZULU)

Ken....

DUDE, I neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed one!

:)))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Saturday, January 17, 2009, at 22:05:15 (ZULU)

Man, I'd love to see the redneck equivalent of that thing.

John
WI, - Saturday, January 17, 2009, at 23:30:19 (ZULU)

Ken,

Thank you. All it needs now is a roof hatch/ring mount thingymawhatsit. Or is that standard as well? If I know my Lady, we're going to need 'his and hers' here. Both in Black!

Hope everyone's staying warm where they are. Was -37C at 9:30 am yesterday. Most have it better, be happy.

Sean T
Winterpeg, Manitoba, Canada - Saturday, January 17, 2009, at 23:40:43 (ZULU)

Weather country:

Forecast is for -20C tonite in Halifax. That's around the low end of what we locally get in the winter. For those still using Imperial units, that's -4F.

I agree, Brrr!

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 03:09:26 (ZULU)

Kittywacker: Remember... Need has nuttin' to do with it!

Damn that's cool...and probably worth more than my house! Looks like one of them Dakar trucks, with a 'loo!

SteveinButte
Butte, Mt, USA - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 03:47:22 (ZULU)

>DUDE, I neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed one!

All it takes is money - lots of it. Prices start at a half million.

But if you don't need to go off-road, these offer at lot more space and luxury, although they start at $1.4 million - click on my name for the link.

Lindy
The south shore of Clear Lake, Texas, U.S.A. - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 04:42:51 (ZULU)

Dan - you are correct, how could I forget Master Rick? Doh.

Weather country - around here most of this week was o to -5 during the day, -15 or cooler at night, with a breeze. It was challenging. A co-worker and mentor of mine in the railroad industry (guy that trained me off the street to be a switchman) passed away of a heart attack in it at work early Friday AM, he was 52 and had a couple stents in last spring.

Pulled some sticks out to clean and oil them today against the damn/cold basement. While inspecting I noticed that my favorite carbine (Colt AR15 A1 pencil barrel w/ no accessories except a 3 point sling) appears to be starting to lose the chrome plating just ahead of the chamber on two lands. :-( Anybody ever see this before? I wonder if it's going to shoot poorly, and if I have to replace it - where I'm gonna get a Colt 16" pencil barrel in grey, chrome lined 5.56 in a 1-12" twist!

Also went to swap out my cheapo Simmons scope on my Stevens .270 for the Nikon Pro Staff I've had sitting in the safe and discovered that with two piece bases, the 3-9x40 Pro Staff will not sit in the rings on this long action, it's too short. Going to have to get a one piece base apparently. I'm using Luepold weaver rings on Weaver bases.

Geoff M
WI, USA - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 05:58:17 (ZULU)

Working outdoors sucks in this weather.

Motorcoaches are maintainance nightmares, God forbid you ever have to tow one.

http://www.billbottoms.com/Motorhome.html

This guy builds a motorhome on a real class 8 truck chassis. That means you can get parts from just about any truck shop in the world and they're Hell for stout, unlike a motorcoach. Or if you're a cheapo, just go to truck paper.com and get a tractor with a 100+" sleeper unit. With the economy tanking, there's all sorts of used trucks for sale, cheap. Under $100k, you can find trucks with TV, couch, bed, desk, some even have shower units, washer/dryer, etc.

And you can get a 53" trailer, pack it with all your worldly goods and head away from the urban kill zones when all the hope and change turns to riots and looting. S/F.....Ken M

Ken M
Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 06:32:44 (ZULU)

Motorcoach in an accident looks like a paper mache bomb went off....fluffy fibrous stuff everywhere

medicjim
Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 13:10:43 (ZULU)

I got a curiousness...

Have any of you guys not posted something because you thought it might be read by someone that you didn't want to see it?

I just posted something and 20 seconds later, deleted the post.

Maybe we might have a registration system and pass words to read this site.

Some years ago, SniperCountry made it in the newspapers and was even mentioned in the "hallowed halls" (yeah, right!) of congress in a debate on anti-gun legislation.

I'm beginning to think it might be a good idea, especially with the upcoming admin.

Youz guys have any thoughts?????

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 13:26:15 (ZULU)

Geoff M.,

If you don't want to go with a one piece base you might try Weaver extension rings.

'lito,

I see your point. Might be a good idea; but how are you going to screen new people?

Cheers,

Doc

Doc Holloway
The cloudy Ozark boonies, MO, USA - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 14:20:16 (ZULU)

Doc...

I don't know. You can't keep every non-shooter out, cuz if they are determined to get in, they will.

But you can keep 95% of the casual non-shooting browsers out with a small questionnaire, and that might be enough.

I don't have a solid answer, but I know that this is not the first time I have held back stuff, or filtered information... and I know that Ken has removed posts that were harmless, but "politically incorrect".

Just about every other web forum I am on, including wood chuck shooting sites, requires a password to get in and many require a password to even read the text.

I might be all wet on this, but I do think it's worth talking about.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 14:29:09 (ZULU)

Geoff...

Go here for extension rings...

http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#weaver%20ext%20rings____-_1-2-4_8-16-32

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 14:32:13 (ZULU)

What really sux is when you are that paranoid about your own freakin' gov't that you think you gotta start monitoring what you say.

Charles Hunt
San Antonio, Texas, USA - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 15:22:51 (ZULU)

This was just posted in another forum.

Posted to Craig's List Personals:

To the Guy Who Mugged Me Downtown (Downtown, Savannah )

Date: 2009-01-06, 3:43AM EST

I was the white guy with the black Burberry jacket that you demanded I hand over shortly after you pulled the knife on me and my girlfriend. You also asked for my girlfriend's purse and earrings. I hope you somehow come across this message. I'd like to apologize.

I didn't expect you to crap your pants when I drew my pistol after you took my jacket. Truth is, I was wearing the jacket for a reason that evening, and it wasn't that cold outside. You see, my girlfriend had just bought me that Kimber 1911 .45 ACP pistol for Christmas, and we had just picked up a shoulder holster for it that evening. Beautiful pistol, eh? It's a very intimidating weapon when pointed at your head, isn't it?

I know it probably wasn't a great deal of fun walking back to wherever you'd come from with that brown sludge flopping about in your pants. I'm sure it was even worse since you also ended up leaving your shoes, cellphone, and wallet with me. I couldn't have you calling up any of your buddies to come help you try to mug us again. I took the liberty of calling your mother, or "Momma" as you had her listed in your cell, and explaining to her your situation. I also bought myself some gas on your card. I gave your shoes to one of the homeless guys over by Vinnie Van Go Go's, along with all of the cash in your wallet, then I threw the wallet itself in a dumpster.

I called a bunch of phone sex numbers from your cell. They'll be on your bill in case you'd like to know which ones. Alltel recently shut down the line, and I've only had the phone for a little over a day now, so I don't know what's going on with that. I hope they haven't permanently cut off your service. I was about to make some threatening phone calls to the DA's office with it. Oh well.

So, about your pants. I know that I was a little rough on you when you did this whole attempted mugging thing, so I'd like to make it up to you. I'm sure you've already washed your pants, so I'd like to help you out. I'd like to reimburse you for the detergent you used on the pants. What brand did you use, and was it liquid or powder? I'd also like to apologize for not killing you and instead making you walk back home humiliated. I'm hoping that you'll reconsider your choice of path in life. Next time you might not be so lucky. If you read this message, email me and we'll do lunch and laundry. Peace!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 15:44:18 (ZULU)

Click.

Apparently, muzzleloader uppers for AR's weren't stupid enough!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 15:56:32 (ZULU)

For a self built motorcoach, I think I'd start with an old firetruck. Possibly one of the beefed up forest service models.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 16:12:27 (ZULU)

I agree Charles, It's like I always say, my family has more to fear from professional politicions than amature terrorists.

Since the topic du-jour is Henrys, I always wondered about cleaning one of the yellowboy/bigboy models with modern solvents. The origionals were fed black-powder cartridges, and could be cleaned w/soap and water. (and lubed with bear grease) But won't modern copper solovents harm the frame?

Which supressor company do youse guys recomend? 22 rimfire, 45acp & 308. No rock&roll ; )

4eyes
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 16:31:30 (ZULU)

Guys,

I too have typed out a post, then deleted it out of fear for what some alphabet agency might misconstrue in it. I also agree that it sucks when you have enough to fear from your government, that you feel you have to censor what you say. And I believe that with the new administration, it's probably going to be much worse than what we would like. Doesn't really sound like America, does it?

I'll check out the extended rings. Any feedback on my Colt? :-(

'Lito this one is for you. Forget airboats, ever hear of a "wind sled"? This one has a pair of new Chevy 502 crate motors, and publicly funded!

http://www.jsonline.com/multimedia/video/?pcpid=1869637852&bclid=1815816805&bctid=8356398001

Or click.....

Geoff M
WI, USA - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 18:22:40 (ZULU)

Geoff...

... nothing happened??

[edit] OK.. I found it with Google (what else??)

They were two on eBay last year - but too limited - and I can take an air boat on snow and frozen rivers.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 18:26:46 (ZULU)

'Lito, it's working for me. I would guess you need to install the latest Java or Flash on your PC.....

Geoff M
WI, USA - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 18:29:14 (ZULU)

watch out for the flash updates I spent over 8 hours removing a malicious virus from my PC.

Jon Kujawa
Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 19:04:13 (ZULU)

Shamelessly stolen from: http://www.rugerforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=40

Lotsa good jokes there!

It's the summer of 1957, and Harold goes to pick up his date, Peggy Sue. Harold's a pretty hip guy, with his own car and a "Ducktail" hairdo.

When he goes to the front door, Peggy Sue's mother answers and invites him in. "Peggy Sue's not ready yet, so why don't you have a seat?"

Peggy Sue's mother asks Harold what they're planning to do. Harold replies politely that they will probably just go to the malt shop or to a drive-in movie.

Peggy Sue's mother responds, "Why don't you kids go out and screw? I hear all the kids are doing it."

Naturally this comes as quite a surprise to Harold, and he says, "Whaaaaat?"

"Yes," says Peggy Sue's mother. "We know Peggy Sue really likes to screw; why, she'd screw all night if we let her!"

Harold's eyes light up, and he smiles from ear to ear! Immediately he has revised his plans for the evening.

A few moments later, Peggy Sue comes downstairs in her little poodle skirt with her saddle shoes and announces that she's ready to go.

Almost with breathless anticipation, Harold escorts his date out the front door while mom is saying, "Have a good evening kids!" with a small wink for Harold.

About 20 minutes later, a thoroughly disheveled Peggy Sue rushes back in to the house, slams the door behind her and screams at her mother.......

"Dammit Mom .... it's the twist!...... It's called the Twist!"

__________________

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Sunday, January 18, 2009, at 19:42:54 (ZULU)

UHHH! Working for a internet supplier/telephone company for 40 years makes me paranoid as hell about anything that goes on the net or e-mail services. X companies supply a digital outlet for the Feds should they want to monitor anything that goes on. Classified beyond that point I can't say. But just beware. A password doesn't protect against Govt. interlopers. However it might help keep unwanted posters from calling attention to the forum through irresponsible posting.

Brogers
Monday, January 19, 2009, at 14:32:21 (ZULU)

Speakin' of our beloved "Gubberment"

Do any of youz bums know anything about PGP encryption?

It's is supposed to be 128 bit and unbreakable to the point that the "gubberment" arrested and sued (at the same time) the guy that wrote it under some obscure "... exporting weapons without a license law". He beat it (with monumental piles of cash), but I figure that if it scares the gubberment that much, it must be good stuff.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, January 19, 2009, at 15:16:19 (ZULU)

A few grad students and profs went through the math behind PGP a while back. If I remember right, it sounds pretty rugged.

CDC'
Monday, January 19, 2009, at 15:30:15 (ZULU)

re: PGP:

Heard good things about it, Boston T. Party (aka Kenneth W. Royce) is a big fan of the technology. Some of the crypto algorithms were controlled under ITAR for US export. My favourite was the T-shirt with the algorithm printed on it that fell under the ITAR weapon export policy. Biggest problem is getting the crypto keys to your correspondent(s) w/o compromise or ugly logistics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_T._Party

Just remember that securing the computer used for encryting stuff is at least as important as the crypto itself. There are both physical and remote attack methods that can compromise a machine.

Searching Amazon for recent titles on PGP turned this up:

Looks like OpenPGP based solutions are the ticket.

http://www.amazon.com/PGP-GPG-Email-Practical-Paranoid/dp/1593270712/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232383715&sr=1-1

PGP & GPG is an easy-to read, informal tutorial for achieving electronic privacy on the cheap using the standard tools of the email privacy field – commercial PGP and non-commercial GnuPG (GPG). The book shows how to integrate these OpenPGP implementations into the most common email clients and how to use PGP and GPG in daily email correspondence both to send and receive encrypted email. PGP & GPG is written for the moderately skilled computer user who is unfamiliar with public key cryptography but who is, nevertheless, interested in guarding his email privacy. Lucas's relaxed tone makes this complex topic clear and simple enough to be understood by any reasonably savvy computer user.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, January 19, 2009, at 16:54:13 (ZULU)

Secret Service countersnipers hunt for real snipers

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/19/sniper.training/index.html

By Jeanne Meserve and Mike M. Ahlers

CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Look up at any presidential event and you're likely to see them: men dressed in black, armed to the teeth, looking back.

It's no secret; they're with the Secret Service.

The Secret Service would not say how many units will be deployed on Inauguration Day.

On Tuesday at the inauguration, members of the U.S. Secret Service's elite countersniper unit will be out in force, taking roof-top positions along Pennsylvania Avenue and elsewhere as the presidential motorcade glides past throngs of people for the swearing in of Barack Obama.

The Secret Service doesn't mind you knowing they are up there. In fact, their mere presence at the inauguration has a deterrent effect, they say. But they are mum about many other details, including how many teams will be deployed, how long they work and about their custom firearms.

Unit commander Lt. Bernard Hall jokingly calls the weapon a JAR -- "Just Another Rifle."

Since the unit formed in 1971, the unit has never had to fire a JAR to safeguard a person they are assigned to protect.

"When you look at that parade on the day of the inauguration, every building that we will pass by ... has been surveyed, and that is done by the Countersniper Team," said Secret Service director Mark Sullivan. "They will be familiar with every building; they will be familiar with every potential threat."

But the absence of gunfire -- a welcome absence in this line of work -- doesn't mean they have never identified or mitigated a threat, Sullivan says.

The teams typically consist of two people, both armed with high-powered rifles, either of whom can shoot to deter an imminent threat. If one countersniper spots a threat, that person prepares to shoot while the other member takes on the role of "wind caller," telling the shooter how to adjust his aim to counteract the wind.

The wind caller takes cues from chimney smoke, flags or undulations from the atmosphere.

At a firing range outside of Washington, the team demonstrates its skills in a variety of positions. Both men peer through high-powered binoculars looking for threats.

"Watch the threat area," an instructor shouts. Thirty seconds pass before a target pops up down range. One of the countersnipers drops his binoculars and reaches for his weapon, shouting to his colleague.

"Left side. Left side," the wind reader responds.

The shooter fires one shot.

"Center! In the middle," the instructor reports.

While the countersnipers can scan the crowds below, their focus is on looking for places where snipers might be concealed, team members say.

All countersnipers go through nine weeks of intense training. Half of those who try out for the team fail. Fewer than 200 people have been assigned to the unit in its 30-plus year history, the service says. There are fewer than 100 countersnipers in the unit, a Secret Service spokesman says.

This isn't a job for someone who can't handle extreme temperatures. The cold can be biting; the heat, blistering.

Hall said officers have tricks for keeping mental focus in inclement weather.

"When it's hot, we're probably thinking about the cold days in January. When it's cold, we're probably thinking about August," he said.

On Tuesday, in addition to the snipers, an estimated 8,000 police officers will be on duty, along with almost 1,000 FBI personnel, Transportation Security Administration screeners and others, including 10,000 National Guard troops. The Department of Homeland Security has said that another 20,000 members of the National Guard are being held in reserve.

"I think we are ready," said Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. "I don't anticipate anything disruptive. Part of my job is to hope for the best and plan for the worst."

sinister
Monday, January 19, 2009, at 17:27:47 (ZULU)

About PGP,

I did quite a bit of investigating about it/them 10 years ago. I d/l'ed the program, and everything went along smoothly and famously.

Except, absolutely nobody I knew was willing to do and use the same thing. "There's no need for this" they said. "I'm not interested in informing the government that I've something to hide", they said.

Sheeple.

The pedigree of the program is impressive, if all true. I've no way of knowing otherwise. It works good, and uses impulsively random 'noise' as its basis. The problem is, actually finding someone else whom you're needing to keep in contact with, AND is willing to recieve/trade keys with you.

The logistics of the key exchange, can be L somewhat ambiguously hidden in a number of different # emails, transmissions, and even snailmails. If your phone is (% bugged.

Just thought I'd add,,,

Sean T
Winterpeg, Manitoba, Canada - Monday, January 19, 2009, at 17:32:56 (ZULU)

Travis: That AR-upper is right up there with the Zombie-killer-chainsaw-upper-attachment. That might qualify for a Jeff Foxworthy, "You might be a redneck, if..."

Lito: PGP is better than just "pretty good". It can be cracked, but you have to have resources of IBM, CIA, NSA, or some other alphabet soup organization. CDC' would know lots more about it than me.

As far as editing your posts for possible "miscontruing"... well, forget it. A simple "Hello" can be misconstrued in many ways. The only thing to be careful of are things like veiled or direct threats, which you would have to be completely stooopid to make. Open discussions on hypotheticals occur on thousands of websites all over the world, and are being monitored, just like this board.

George Orwell was right, but he was an optimist.

Duman
Monday, January 19, 2009, at 17:39:02 (ZULU)

Duman...

You are right - you would be amazed at the massive number of women that misconstrued my simple "Hello" and responded with a hard stare (at best) or a slap (at the worst).

:))))))))))))))

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Monday, January 19, 2009, at 22:09:31 (ZULU)

Darren...

I tried to answer your question four or five days ago, but the email came back as undelivered - so here is the information...

"If the LTR has a much slower muzzle velocity, the 308 CAM might be the best - I would suggest trying both and see - start with the 308 and set "0" at 100, and then take it out to long range - if it is shooting low, go to the 30-06 and see. If neither is right on - use the one that is closest at long range."

'lito.

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, January 20, 2009, at 03:39:47 (ZULU)

Hellooooooo in there! LOL!

That doesn't piss 'em off nearly as much as throwing rocks in, then counting while you wait for the splash!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Tuesday, January 20, 2009, at 06:34:34 (ZULU)

Precisely the reason I DID NOT date strippers.

Travis,ya really got me on the.... Splash.

UnPat

UnPat
Wi, USA - Tuesday, January 20, 2009, at 12:32:58 (ZULU)

humor:

http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2009/01/you-may-be-taliban-if.html

"YOU MAY BE A TALIBAN IF...."

1. You refine heroin for a living, but you

have a moral objection to beer.

2. You own a $3,000 machine gun and

$5,000 rocket launcher, but you can't

afford shoes.

3. You have more wives than teeth.

4. You wipe your butt with your bare left

hand, but consider bacon"unclean."

5. You think vests come in two styles:

bullet-proof and suicide.

6. You can't think of anyone you haven't

declared Jihad against.

7. You consider television dangerous, but

routinely carry explosives in your clothing.

8. You were amazed to discover that cell phones

have uses other than setting off roadside bombs.

9. You have nothing against women and think

every man should own at least two.

10. You've always had a crush on your

neighbor's goat.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Tuesday, January 20, 2009, at 16:31:32 (ZULU)

Did anyone else catch the poet who followed the Messiah? Content aside, it wasn't just awful, it wouldn't even have been a D+ effort for an 8th grader.

The invocation was almost as embarassing. "if it's yellow, let it mellow"? Oh, come on...

Who was in charge on that mess?

CDC'
Tuesday, January 20, 2009, at 17:44:09 (ZULU)

CDC,

I absolutely roared when we heard that the president was directly compared to/related as, CRAP! "If you're brown, stick around, and if you're yellow, let's be mellow".

Prime time, International, Live Entertainment just don't get much better!

Now, back to shooting topics,,,,

(I'm not even gonna comment on any "I'm just hanging around, shooting the shit with the guys,,,,")

No way, uh uhh,,, I'm not going there.

Sean T
Winterpeg, Manitoba, Canada - Tuesday, January 20, 2009, at 18:22:35 (ZULU)

Gentlemen,

A toast! ....To the end of the checks and balances that were supposed to regulate our form of government.

It's gotta get worse before it can get better. Let's just hope this asshole doesn't irrevocably fuck it all up before we get a chance to clean it up. It'll be a horserace, since he can't figure out how a checkbook works. The deficit is a negative balance, and he wants to give more money away. I hear him talking all the time about giving money away, but nothing about how to pay for it!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 06:32:08 (ZULU)

What message is this meant to convey? Pay special attention to the part after "Say it plain".

ELIZABETH ALEXANDER Inagural poem: Praise song for the day.

Each day we go about our business, walking past each other, catching each other's eyes -- or not -- about to speak or speaking. All about us is noise. All about us is noise and bramble, thorn and din, each one of our ancestors on our tongues.

Someone is stitching up a hem, darning a hole in a uniform, patching a tire, repairing the things in need of repair. Someone is trying to make music somewhere with a pair of wooden spoons on an oil drum, with cello, boom box, harmonica, voice.

A woman and her son wait for the bus. A farmer considers the changing sky. A teacher says, "Take out your pencils. Begin."

We encounter each other in words -- words spiny or smooth, whispered or declaimed; words to consider, reconsider.

We cross dirt roads and highways that mark the will of someone and then others who said, "I need to see what's on the other side. I know there's something better down the road."

We need to find a place where we are safe. We walk into that which we cannot yet see.

Say it plain, that many have died for this day. Sing the names of the dead who brought us here, who laid the train tracks, raised the bridges, picked the cotton and the lettuce, built brick by brick the glittering edifices they would then keep clean and work inside of.

Praise song for struggle. Praise song for the day. Praise song for every hand-lettered sign, the figuring it out at kitchen tables.

Some live by "love thy neighbor as thyself." Others by "first, do no harm" or "take no more than you need." What if the mightiest word is "love" -- love beyond marital, filial, national; love that casts a widening pool of light; love with no need to preempt grievance?

In today's sharp sparkle, this winter air, anything can be made, any sentence begun. On the brink, on the brim, on the cusp, praise song for walking forward in that light.

CDC'
Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 12:13:49 (ZULU)

Last two paragraphs of inagural prayer:

"Help us then, now, Lord, to work for that day when nation shall not lift up sword against nation, when tanks will be beaten into tractors, when every man and every woman shall sit under his or her own vine and fig tree, and none shall be afraid; when justice will roll down like waters and righteousness as a mighty stream.

Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get back, when brown can stick around -- (laughter) -- when yellow will be mellow -- (laughter) -- when the red man can get ahead, man -- (laughter) -- and when white will embrace what is right.

Let all those who do justice and love mercy say Amen."

So - in the Obamanation - white people are the problem. (note the laughter) Libs control both houses.

"Hold on Luke, she's fixin' to buck'"

CDC'
Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 13:01:27 (ZULU)

One thing for sure, the issue of race is not dead.

As soon as our new congress figures out the details of how they are gonna dupe the Americans who lost most of their life savings in 401K's into "contributing" what is left, into the social security system under the guise of drawing more retirement moneys. We will see the power of a one sided system gone really really bad! We have nothing to fear but fear its self and the reality that this time the fear is really well founded. Talk about a pyramid scheme.

Brogers
Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 14:40:05 (ZULU)

'yotie...

>"One thing for sure, the issue of race is not dead. "<

No shit, Mang.

The left can't function if there is not a standing pool of "victims" to harvest every two years.

That is why they will do nothing about the education system except throw money at the teacher's union.

In fact, I bet the issue of race gets LARGER rather than smaller. It is the liberal's tittie to milk, and they are gonna milk the hell out of it.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 15:41:11 (ZULU)

In the old Flip Wilson routine, the Devil had the preacher's wife tell the preacher: "Without me, you wouldn't have a job."

Without the White Devil, Jerimiah Wright wouldn't live in a mansion.

CDC'
Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 16:00:44 (ZULU)

I was working, so I missed the inauguration, etc..

I'm a bit dumbfounded by the "poem" and "prayer". These are educated (supposedly) people?

There's bound to be a big hangover, once the "celebration" comes to an end.....

Duman
Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 17:31:29 (ZULU)

A woman in a hot air balloon realized she was lost. She lowered her altitude and spotted a man fishing in a boat below. She shouted to him, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

The man consulted his portable GPS and replied, "You're in a hot air balloon, approximately 30 feet above a ground elevation of 2346 feet above sea level. You are at 31 degrees, 14.97 minutes north latitude and 100 degrees, 49.09 minutes west longitude.

She rolled her eyes and said, "You must be a Republican."

"I am," replied the man. "How did you know?"

"Well," answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to do with your information, and I'm still lost. Frankly, you've not been much help to me."

The man smiled and responded, "You must be a Democrat."

"I am," replied the balloonist. "How did you know?"

"Well," said the man, "you don't know where you are or where you're going. You've risen to where you are, due to a large quantity of hot air. You made a promise that you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. You're in exactly the same position you were in before we met, but somehow, now it's my fault."

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 18:56:43 (ZULU)

Well, I thought all my guilt would be gone and all things racial would disappear upon the events of yesterday. But my memories still haunt me. When I was on my knees in the cotton field in SW Oklahoma tugging at the strap of that cotton sack, I felt so sorry for those others behind me. I vowed it must be just as rough for them as it was for me! Sure enough they complained about the heat and knats too. It was a hard life for the under priviledged. I hope that my guilt is vindicated for having been the first one to wagon to dump my sack. I was well aware that white men did not want that job.

Brogers
Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 19:35:27 (ZULU)

What is Glock's new RTS2 pistol....I've seen it in pictures from SHOT, but what is it?

http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2009/Day3/DSC04983.JPG

medicjim
Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 21:43:34 (ZULU)

New Camo!

http://www.morningwood4u.com/

Regards, & it's TOO Cold for shootin.

Steve

Steven Dzupin
Ridgewood, Chosin,NJ, Usa - Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 23:01:45 (ZULU)

Just back from Gym. I remember when 1-2 miles and ten minutes rowing was a warm up.

Oh well Rome was not rebuilt in a day or month so far in my case. Wish me luck I have a physical to take in 30 days

Mike/Undude

MikeMiller
Ca, - Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 23:27:38 (ZULU)

iPhone / iPod touch app for dialing in shots:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/apple/4297205/Sniper-rifle-software-launched-for-iPod-touch.html

Leslie
Kingsport, TN, - Thursday, January 22, 2009, at 03:08:06 (ZULU)

There's also iSnipe available at the iPhone App Store and it's $2 cheaper than BulletFlight. I have no idea which is better as I haven't used either one. Yet.

jc
Cordova, TN, United States - Thursday, January 22, 2009, at 06:28:45 (ZULU)

Undude: Have you checked out HIIT (high intensity interval training)? The Tabata Protocol works surprisingly well, even on those of us who are older - and more broken down - than you.

This is based on real scientific research (I would know). It was developed by grown ups. It is being accepted by serious people.

It takes very little time and - if you do it right - it will kick your ass. It is supposed to work great with rowing machines.

Click or websearch "Tabata Protocol".

CDC'
Thursday, January 22, 2009, at 14:48:51 (ZULU)

Just wondering to myself, besides Leupold, what other manufacturer makes FFP scopes?

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Thursday, January 22, 2009, at 16:39:07 (ZULU)

CDC, this is sad but I only know the Mike Miller former Linebacker Work Out that I modified as I got old and need to not beat up knees too bad

Weights four days aweek:

Bench

Lat Pulls

Bar dips

Curls

dead lifts

Five days a week

Sit Ups

Push Ups

Cardo

5 days a week

Run twice a week

Stair Climber twice a week

Ruck Hill climbs once a week

plus

Rowing machine 5 days a week

Its working but slower than it did twenty years ago.

Now a challenge for shooters to try:

I hope guys get better with sling use. Not the only wya to shoot for sure but sometimes its the best

Stage One

Start at 200 yards standing

Not slung up

Moving from semi standing position forward, bent at knees as low as you can be and walk.

Imagine seeing bad guy and having head only to shoot at

You only have a few seconds to shoot or target will be gone. No time to set up. Just a test of skills you have or need to work on.

Cant get a shot from prone

Go to seated or kneeling (your choice or try both) position, sling up and shoot one round

Unsling yourself before getting out of seated position, without moving muzzle side to side. This way you wont give up your position after the shot

Stage Two repeat going into prone.

Same things apply. Dont flag yourself with side to side muzzle movement

Stage Three

Start crawling, as if moving into a FFP. Imagine coming onto a bad guy unexpectedly 400 yards away. No time to build FFP and can not come out of crawling position to engage without giving yourself away. Sling up without moving muzzle side to side as this will flag you as a threat.

Take sling shot from the low prone.

After shot without flagging your self. No side to side muzzle movement, unsling rifle and continue moevement to FFP

Stage Three

Now pratice multiple targets from sling positions to see if your position is solid and if sling will slip. Thsi is one reason I use that belt loop thing on my BDU top. The cuff statys put while being loose on arm.

Hope you guys find this useful.

_________________________

Mike/Undude

www.Tacticalintervention.com

MikeMiller
Ca, - Thursday, January 22, 2009, at 16:58:11 (ZULU)

Darren,

I believe Nightforce now has glass that has a FFP. Might ask Lindy, he's running one now. Schmidt & Bender along with Premier as well have FFP. If you have to ask how much for these, then you probably don't want one.

Mk4
Texas, United States of America - Thursday, January 22, 2009, at 20:24:42 (ZULU)

NF scopes are the shit; I just can't help thinking my wife's gonna notice when I sell her car to buy one!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, January 22, 2009, at 21:51:15 (ZULU)

Mike: Tabata Intervals are for cardio. Do your exercise of choice, just follow the protocol's structure. It is far more efficient and effective than traditional cardio strategies.

.204 shooters (Bill?): A friend of mine just bought a CZ .204 and he wants to reload for it. I told him that I would ask the guys who know what they're doing and have done the homework. Do any of you have pet loads or any other tips?

CDC'
Thursday, January 22, 2009, at 21:55:16 (ZULU)

Did you guys hear that Obama's planning to put and end to "Don't ask, don't tell"? I'm betting that doesn't mean he's gonna kick all the homosexuals out of the military.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, January 22, 2009, at 22:11:01 (ZULU)

Does anyone know the history of the "Executive Order" ? Who was the first to use it, what legal doctrine they cite, etc..

.... and what is B.O. going to do with the remaining "undesireables" in GITMO, when he closes the doors? Call them "Chums" and feed the sharks?

Duman
Thursday, January 22, 2009, at 23:17:05 (ZULU)

FFP Scopes: Top tier manufacturers include U.S. Optics, Schmidt and Bender, Nightforce, Premier Reticles and Leupold.

I have a 3-15X50 Nightforce F1 with an illuminated FFP MLR reticle, which is basically a milliradian reticle with big hashmarks at 1 mil intervals and a smaller hashmark at half-mil points. Nice scope. Good glass. Tenth milliradian adjustments.

I prefer the Premier Gen II reticles, which have 0.2 mil diameter dots at 1 mil intervals with a hashmark in between. Scopes with those reticles are available from Premier Reticles. On the used markets are available Leupold scopes with Premier Reticles Gen II FFP reticles, all of which have MOA or fractional MOA adjustments.

There are also available used Schmidt and Benders with Gen II FFP reticles, with both MOA and milliradian adjustments. I don't think there will be many more news ones, save for what might currently be in dealer stock.

The Nightforce, U.S. Optics, S&B, and Premier Reticles are available with 0.1 milliradian clicks, which is the only thing which makes sense for a milliradian reticle.

There is currently at least one Leupold scope available with 0.05 milliradian clicks, although 0.1 mil clicks are promised "real soon now" - I'm not holding my breath. Leupold is way behind the curve and getting more so daily.

There are other manufacturers who sell scopes with FFP reticles at lower prices. I don't have any experience with them.

Lindy
Rockport, Texas, U.S.A. - Friday, January 23, 2009, at 01:08:12 (ZULU)

->Does anyone know the history of the "Executive Order" ? Who was the first to use it, what legal doctrine they cite, etc..

The first usage of the executive order - as we now know it - was John Quincy Adams on July 11, 1826. At least to my understanding / memory. Interestingly enough, it was for the military to show mourning - for a period of 6 months - over the death of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, who died on the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence.

As for legal doctrine, well, there isn't any. There is no NO *NO* Constitutional backing of the executive order. People want to twist part of Article 2 section 3 (he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed) into some kind of statement that executive orders are allowed. They're not. The courts have overturned executive orders before - but they did so based on legal challenges, which unfortunately gave more legitimacy to the executive order by treating it as law when it wasn't.

-->.... and what is B.O. going to do with the remaining "undesireables" in GITMO, when he closes the doors?

Last I heard, Barry Soetero (also spelled "Sottero" sometimes, look him up, the guy goes by a different name now) was talking to the USMC about that very same problem.

The last I heard, his last comment on the matter - made while walking out the door - was "Party at Duman's!"

Bravo
Friday, January 23, 2009, at 01:44:19 (ZULU)

Bravo,

Party at Duman's? Hehehehehee....

Duman
Friday, January 23, 2009, at 03:38:10 (ZULU)

-->Party at Duman's? Hehehehehee....

Well, that was just Barry Soetero's suggestion.

If it were MY suggestion, I'd be wondering how to teach jihadis to write "Dear Mom, I am now a Cuban citizen" on post cards in spanish.

Last one out, turn off the lights. Or not. We ain't payin' the electric bill any more.

Now does anyone have any first-hand experience in comparing the CProducts DPMS mags with the DPMS brand mags? I'm gonna order 40 or 50 of one of 'em, and I'm hoping CProducts makes one just as good for a third less.

Bravo
Friday, January 23, 2009, at 06:04:49 (ZULU)

Bravo,

We do NOT want these fuckers to be Cuban citizens. They'd either start helping the gov't there think up new ways to be assholes, or float over here on doors to become instant citizens.

....btw, we need to start our own environmental campaign on the coast of Florida.... FEED the sharks!

Yeah, I know it's fucked up.... press one to see my finger. If you come to this country, then fly the flag of the country you escaped, refuse to assimilate, try to use all of our resources while bitching that you don't get more, you really deserve to be chum.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Friday, January 23, 2009, at 13:01:04 (ZULU)

CDC .204s yeah, we are still playing with this round but it's pretty well established that the 32 gr. bullet is just as effective as the 40 on game up to yote size and shoots pretty close to the same impact and accuracy over a 400 yard trajectory with the Hornady bullets. We have used varget at around 25.5 to 26.5 gr. I'm getting about the same results with pretty close to the same amount of IMR 4198. Different rifles seem to crater primers at different places a little more than .223 loads do. I can't explain it but normally about 3650 to 3700 is about the most accurate speeds in the .204s I've had. You can get a little faster with the 4198 and some other powders but the accuracy seems to go west at about 3750. The factory load of 32 grains seems to be the best for accuracy and effective one shot kills but Hornady has some kind of blend that they aren't letting the secret receipt out to reloaders. They get fairly accurate loads at about 4300 fps and they are deadly out to about 650 yds or so on the yotes. Usually a one shot kill results with this ammo but it's about $18.00 for 20. Way too expensive for PDs.

This round is a bit finicky about copper fouling but it outdoes the .223 in just about ever use I've had for it. The little CZ is a nice gun! Much less fouling than my Browning. My best performer was a Thompson Encore that would shoot quarter size groups at about any speed with more than a hundred rounds down range at a session. The model 7 Remington I have now is fair but the speed has to be held to about 22-250 range like about 3600fps. It's a little enemic on yotes unless you hit them perfect.

Brogers
Friday, January 23, 2009, at 14:31:26 (ZULU)

Thank you Bill. That is just what I wanted to know.

CDC'
Friday, January 23, 2009, at 15:43:02 (ZULU)

Hi Rod,

a belated Thank You for the info on Mother's Polish-it workie goood! Sure shines up brass better than any of the other stuff I've tried, media seems to last longer, too.

We just missed a good opportunity to be rid of the Gitmo detainees, we could have dropped them off in Gaza. Surely they could have walked from there...

Best to All and W6,

Erik

Erik in Kodiak
Friday, January 23, 2009, at 18:25:35 (ZULU)

On another forum, they're having a bitch-and-moan-fest over Barry Soetero's new administration and the anti-gun goals he posted on his website ( http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/urban_policy/ ) within the first half hour after being sworn in. I posted a reply, and thought "this bears repeating far and wide". Please read, but even more so, please ACT. 10 minutes could save a LOT of heartache over the next four years. But act quickly, the senate will hear this as early as next week!

Not trying to interupt or derail the bitch-and-moan-athon, but the real question is:

"What are you doing to PREVENT this NOW?"

Nothing? Bitching and moaning, especially to the choir, is a bit less profitable than nothing.

Here's the deal..... eric holder is the current nominee for Attorney General. In case you don't know, holder is a clinton administration refugee that was instrumental in anti-gun work-around executive efforts done. Skirted legislation AND the courts.

He, as part of a group, argued in the Heller case that the DC ban was fine since (in his opinion) the Second Amendment didn't apply to individiuals.

I could go on and on - the end all is that eric holder makes janet reno look like John Wayne.

Before the nomination confirmation is heard (as early as next week!) call your two senators and tell them that eric holder is NOT to be confirmed as Attorney General!

I went as far as to explain that if holder was confirmed, and the voting record showed my senators had voted to confirm him, THEY would share the responsibility of any anti-gun efforts the Department of "justice" put through.

Think Branch Davidians, and "I take full responsibility" janet reno......

Remind them that they represent you, and if they don't, they can be replaced with someone who does. Guns are a "hot topic" issue, you can cite the recent sales "flood".

Four calls should take a total of 10 minutes. Your tax dollars pay for this toll-free number: 877-762-8762. Just let the operator know which senator you're looking for, they'll forward your call to the appropriate staff. Look up your senators online, and call their offices in-state as well....... Sometimes it rings for a bit, but they do get to you.

Make it understood though, that if your senator votes to confirm holder, they're tying their wagon to his office. Whatever he does, it'll reflect on THEM, and you'll be more than happy to let EVERYONE in your state know they can express their discontent by voting that senator OUT.

Just like before, during the clinton administration.

Write e-mails, and drop 'em a post card or two also. Since staffers typically only want your zip code (not name) when you call, you just became a "vocal minority". Act like a dead demopublican - "vote" often.

Fair warning - do NOT assume that a republican senator is against holder! One of my senators is a very influential republican, who has already stated he's supporting holder. I'm working to change his mind.

Of course, you can always bitch and moan about things later. But if you don't take this 10 minutes and call those three phone numbers now though, then YOU have done nothing and have abrogated your liberty to even bitch and moan!

In the end, it's still about YOU doing YOUR part. If you don't do it, nobody will. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance!

If you can't find the in-state office phone number for your senators, PM me. I'll get it to you ASAP. If you don't know your senators (shame on you!) then PM me your state, I'll get you all the info ASAP.

Bravo
Friday, January 23, 2009, at 19:57:08 (ZULU)

Eric:

You're welcome on the polish recommendation. John Shaw recommended it in his book ("You Can't Miss") too (before I tried it). I've also used Flitz and Autosol (both German products) to similar effect.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, January 24, 2009, at 00:22:08 (ZULU)

"The first usage of the executive order - as we now know it - was John Quincy Adams on July 11, 1826. At least to my understanding / memory."

Bravo, you're older than I thought if you remember that.....

Leslie
Saturday, January 24, 2009, at 00:43:21 (ZULU)

Spit out whatever you're drinking and click!

Funniest damn thing I've seen in quite a while.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, January 24, 2009, at 04:11:47 (ZULU)

Holy SHIT !!!

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Saturday, January 24, 2009, at 04:20:20 (ZULU)

Bravo and all

I'm a week ahead of you. Two E-Mails through Gun Owners of America and a phone call to as****e Durbins office. The attitude of this guy toward gun owners is unbelievable. Basically it's F*** YOU. I'll tell you he's not heard the last of me.

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Saturday, January 24, 2009, at 10:49:20 (ZULU)

I might add

Anybody on this site especially from Ill. hit your senators hard with this one

Gary Kaney
N.W., ILL, - Saturday, January 24, 2009, at 10:53:59 (ZULU)

From the whitehouse link Bravo posted:

"Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent."

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

CDC'
Saturday, January 24, 2009, at 14:34:04 (ZULU)

One of my compatriots is in charge of our states Independent Party. As you can imagine, he's well practiced in the art of dealing with treasoners, er I mean traitors, er I mean politicans. According to him, a hand-written note is felt to represent more people than a telephone call, and a telephone call represents more people than an e-mail.

There are rules of thumb, but in political activism a hand-written note weighs about 20 times more than an e-mail.

Politicians and other criminals judge how sincere you are in defense of your Rights, by the effort you put forth. Therefore, for every person upset enough to call, there are 500 more that are equally upset but too lazy to call.

Am I saying just write a letter and that's it? Heavens no. I'm saying we should all pretend to be good dead demopublicans - write several letters, make several phone calls, and even drop an e-mail or two ;-) Vote early, vote often.

One of the "senate leaders" for the republicrats - and a devout anti-gun voter (though pro-gun lecturer and NRA A+ rated senator) - is orrin hatch. Call his office, and let him know you're quite upset at his press statement of support in regards to the eric holder confirmation. You're all now citizens of his state (Utah), you live in zip code 84770 (Saint George), or 84606 (Provo), or 84110 (SLC).

Bravo
Saturday, January 24, 2009, at 17:08:54 (ZULU)

goodness, a direct on-topic cross-posting :-)

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20090107.aspx

Afghans Rediscover The Lee-Enfield

January 7, 2009: Afghan traditionalists are changing the way the Taliban fight. This can be seen by the increase in the use of sniping by the Taliban. In the last year, NATO units in southern Afghanistan estimate there has been a 25 percent increase in sniping incidents. This is not seen as a major danger. NATO troops wear protective bests and helmets that can stop bullets fired at long range, making it very frustrating for the Taliban shooters trying to hit a distant target in a vulnerable spot.

This shift in tactics is largely a reaction to the better training, and weapons, of U.S. and NATO infantry. Afghans, and especially the Taliban, consider themselves great warriors. But they are getting tired of being defeated every time they get into a firefight with the foreign troops. Worse yet, if the Taliban stay put during a fight, the damned foreigners bring in a warplane that drops a smart bomb or two, bringing an inglorious (for the Taliban) end to the action.

Then some of the young guys remembered grandpa decrying the decline in marksmanship years ago. Back before the Russians showed up, in the 1980s, the best an Afghan could hope to have was a World War II, or World War I, era bolt action rifle. These weapons were eclipsed in the 1980s by full automatic AK-47s and the RPG rocket launcher. The young guys took to the AK, and the thrill of emptying a 30 round magazine on full automatic. Not bad for a brief firefight, and suddenly hardly anyone, except a few old timers, wanted to use the old bolt action rifle.

What was not noticed much outside of Afghanistan, was that this shift in weaponry brought to an end a long Afghan tradition of precision, long range shooting. Before the 1980s, this skill was treasured for both hunting and warfare. When doing neither, Afghan men played games centered on marksmanship. One, for example, involved a group of men chipping in and buying a goat. The animal was then tethered to a rock, often on a hill, and then the half dozen or so men moved several hundred meters away and drew lots to see who would fire in what order. The first man to drop the goat, won it. Since Afghanistan was the poorest nation in Asia, ammo was expensive, and older men taught the young boys all the proper moves needed to get that first shot off accurately.

During the 1980s, Saudi Arabia spent billions of dollars to arm Afghans with all the AK-47s and ammo they could use, and they used lots of it. But rarely for target practice. Compared to bolt-action rifles like the British Lee-Enfield, the AK-47 was much less accurate when one shot at a time was fired. The old timers, or a few young traditionalists, kept their Lee-Enfields, and made themselves useful picking off Russian soldiers at long distances, on those rare occasions where that was needed.

The Lee-Enfield is one of the oldest, and still widely used, rifles on the planet. Over 17 million were manufactured between 1895 and the 1980s. While there are more AK-47s out there (over 20 million in private hands), these are looked down on by those who use their rifles for hunting, or killing with a minimum expenditure of ammunition. The 8.8 pound Lee-Enfield is a bolt-action rifle (with a ten round magazine) noted for its accuracy and sturdiness. The inaccurate AK-47 has a hard time hitting anything more than a hundred meters away, while the Lee-Enfield can drop an animal, or a man, at over 400 meters.

There are millions of Lee-Enfields still in use throughout India, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and even Iraq and other Persian Gulf nations. These are largely World War II leftovers. In the early half of the 20th century, the British gave out millions of these weapons to allies, or those being courted. Noting the accuracy of the Lee-Enfield (.303 caliber, or 7.7mm), the locals came to prize the rifle for hunting, and self-defense. There are still many gunsmiths throughout the region (and at least one factory in India) that will refurbish century old Lee-Enfields to "like new" condition. Ammunition is still manufactured, with the high quality stuff going for a dollar a round, and lesser quality for 25 cents a round. These rifles sell in the west for $500-1,000. The Lee-Enfield will carry on well into the 21st century.

One place where the Lee-Enfield found lots of fans was Afghanistan. There, the Afghans had been introduced to rifles in the 19th century, and they treasured these weapons. This was particularly true with the introduction of smokeless powder rifles in the late 19th century. Many Afghans were still using black powder rifles well into the 20th century. But once Lee-Enfields began show up in large numbers after World War I (1914-18), no one wanted the larger, heavier and less accurate black powder rifles (which always gave off your position, with all that smoke, after you fired a round.) Now, wealthy drug lords are buying expensive hunting and sniper rifles for their militias, but so far, the Taliban Snipers appear to be using grandpa's old Lee-Enfield.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, January 25, 2009, at 02:22:20 (ZULU)

humor cross-post

TOOLS EXPLAINED

DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching

flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the

chest and flings your beer across the room, denting the

freshly-painted project which you had carefully set in the corner

where nothing could get to it.

WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere

under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes

fingerprints and hard-earned calluses from fingers in about the time it takes you to say, 'Oh sh -- '

ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning pop rivets in their

holes until you die of old age.

SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make studs too short.

PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the creation

of blood-blisters.

BELT SANDER: An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert minor

touch-up jobs into major refinishing jobs.

HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board

principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable

motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more

dismal your future becomes.

VISE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to completely round off bolt

heads. If nothing else is available, they can also be used to

transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your hand.

OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various

flammable objects in your shop on fire. Also handy for igniting the

grease inside the wheel hub out of which you want to remove a

bearing race.

TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch

wood projectiles for testing wall integrity.

HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Us ed for lowering an automobile to the ground

after you have installed your new brake shoes, trapping the jack

handle firmly under the bumper.

BAND SAW: A large stationary power saw primarily used by most shops

to cut good aluminum sheet into smaller pieces that more easily fit

into the trash can after you cut on the inside of the line instead

of the outside edge.

TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the maximum tensile

strength of everything you forgot to disconnect.

PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the vacuum seals under

lids or for opening old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splashing oil on your shirt; but can also be used, as the name implies, to strip out Phillips screw heads.

STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes used

to convert common slotted screws into non-removable screws and

butchering your palms.

PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or

bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.

HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to make hoses too short.

HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays

is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive

parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

UTILITY KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of

cardboard cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly

well on contents such as seats, vinyl records, liquids in plastic

bottles, collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or plastic

parts. Especially useful for slicing work clothes, but only while

in use.

DAMM-IT TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the

garage while yelling 'DAMM-IT' at the top of your lungs. It is also, most often, the next tool that you will need.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunday, January 25, 2009, at 17:44:37 (ZULU)

Guys,

The wife and kid want to go on a mission trip to Nicaragua with the church they attend. (sending THAT congregation to promote christianity is about like sending Jenna Jameson to a high school to promote family values) How stable is that country? How much concern is there over basic health and safety? Should I sell guns to FedEx my mother in law there?

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, January 26, 2009, at 03:25:31 (ZULU)

Avi,

If you're out there, could you explain why Israel continues to build new settlements in the West Bank? I thought this was supposed to be Palestinian territory. Or did I miss something?

Duman
Monday, January 26, 2009, at 16:07:10 (ZULU)

Travis:

http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_985.html

US State Dept - Nicaragua - Country Specific Information

in part:

SAFETY AND SECURITY: Municipal elections took place across Nicaragua on November 9, 2008. Violent demonstrations followed as opposition groups questioned the authenticity of the results. Activities observed during protests included but were not limited to tear gas, rubber bullets, setting off fireworks, rock-throwing, tire burning, road blocks, bus and vehicle burning, and physical violence between law enforcement and protestors and between political rivals. Political demonstrations and strikes continue to occur sporadically, are usually limited to urban areas, and occasionally become violent. U.S. citizens are advised to monitor local media reports, to avoid crowds and blockades during such occurrences and to exercise caution when in the vicinity of any large gathering.

U.S. citizens are cautioned that strong currents and undertows off sections of Nicaragua's Pacific coast have resulted in a number of incidents of drowning. Powerful waves have also resulted in broken bones, and injuries caused by sting rays are not uncommon in popular resort bathing areas. Warning signs are not posted, and lifeguards and rescue equipment are not readily available. U.S. citizens contemplating beach activities in Nicaragua's Pacific waters should exercise appropriate caution.

Hiking in volcanic or other remote areas can be dangerous and travelers should take appropriate precautions. Hikers should have appropriate dress, footwear, and sufficient consumables for any trek undertaken. Individuals who travel to remote tourist or other areas for hiking activities are encouraged to hire a local guide familiar with the terrain and area. In particular, there have been instances of hikers perishing or losing their way on the volcanoes at Ometepe Island. While they may look like easy climbs, the terrain is treacherous and heavily overgrown.

Although extensive de-mining operations have been conducted to clear rural areas of northern Nicaragua of landmines left from the civil war in the 1980s, visitors venturing off the main roads in these areas are cautioned that the possibility of encountering landmines still exists.

Domestic travel within Nicaragua by land and air, particularly to the Atlantic side can be dangerous. Domestic airlines use small airstrips with minimal safety equipment and little boarding security.

For the latest security information, Americans traveling abroad should regularly monitor the Department of State, Bureau of Consular Affairs’ web site at http://travel.state.gov, where the current Travel Warnings and Travel Alerts, as well as the Worldwide Caution, can be found.

Up-to-date information on safety and security can also be obtained by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll-free in the U.S. and Canada, or for callers outside the U.S. and Canada, a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal holidays).

The Department of State urges American citizens to take responsibility for their own personal security while traveling overseas. For general information about appropriate measures travelers can take to protect themselves in an overseas environment, see the Department of State’s pamphlet A Safe Trip Abroad.

CRIME: Violent crime in Managua is increasing and petty street crimes are very common. Gang activity also is increasing, though not at levels found in neighboring Central American countries. Pick-pocketing and occasional armed robberies occur on crowded buses, at bus stops and in open markets like the Oriental and Huembes Markets. Gang violence, drive-by shootings, robbery, assault and stabbings are most frequently encountered in poorer neighborhoods, including the Ticabus area, a major arrival and departure point for tourist buses. However, in recent months it spread to more upscale neighborhoods and near major hotels, including the Zona Hippos. In 2008, a U.S. citizen was critically injured in a gang-motivated drive-by shooting that occurred in the San Judas area. Another U.S. citizen was kidnapped and left for dead in the Villa Fontana area of Managua.

U.S. citizens are increasingly targeted shortly after arriving in the country by criminals posing as Nicaraguan police officers who pull their vehicles – including those operated by reputable hotels -- over for inspection. In each case, the incidents happened after dark and involved gun-wielding assailants who robbed passengers of all valuables and drove them to remote locations where they were left to fend for themselves. Some assailants employed threats of physical violence. While the traditional scene of these attacks has been the Tipitapa-Masaya Highway, this activity has recently spread to the Managua-Leon Highway. The U.S. Embassy warns U.S. citizens to exercise extreme caution when driving at night from Managua’s International Airport and to avoid traveling the Tipitapa-Masaya Highway at night.

U.S. citizens should exercise caution when approached by strangers offering assistance. Several U.S. citizens traveling by bus from San Juan del Sur to Managua have reported being victimized by fellow women travelers who offered to assist them in locating and/or sharing a taxi upon arrival in Managua. In all cases, upon entering the taxi, the U.S. citizens have been held at knife-point, robbed of their valuables, and driven around to ATM machines to withdraw funds from their accounts.

Violent criminal activities and petty crime are also increasing in the tourist destination of San Juan del Sur. In 2008, a U.S. citizen family was violently assaulted and kidnapped by several armed men. Other American citizens have been the victims of armed robberies by assailants wielding machetes, knives, and/or guns along the beaches in and around San Juan del Sur. U.S. citizens should exercise particular caution when visiting the following beaches: Maderas, Marsella, Yankee, Coco, and Remanso.

Police coverage is extremely sparse outside major urban areas, particularly in Nicaragua’s Atlantic coast autonomous regions. Lack of adequate police coverage has resulted in these areas being used by drug traffickers and other criminal elements. Street crime and petty theft are a common problem in Puerto Cabezas, Bluefields, and the Corn Islands along the Atlantic coast. For security reasons, the Embassy has limited travel by its staff to the North and South Atlantic Autonomous Regions (RAAN and RAAS), including the Corn Islands. Given the area’s geographical isolation, the Embassy’s ability to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens who choose to travel in the Caribbean costal area is constrained. Police presence on Little Corn Island is made up of volunteers with little to no formal training, and is minimal on Corn Island and other remote areas.

In late 2007, a U.S. citizen was assaulted and violently raped while on vacation in Little Corn Island. U.S. citizens have previously been the victims of sexual assault on this island and other beaches in the country. The Embassy recommends traveling in groups when in isolated areas. Single travelers should exercise special caution while traveling in the Corn Islands and other remote areas of the country.

Throughout the country, U.S. travelers should utilize hotels and guest houses that have strong security elements in place, including but not limited to rooms equipped with safes for securing valuables and travel documents and adequate access control precautions.

Visitors should avoid walking and instead use officially registered taxicabs. Radio-dispatched taxis are recommended and can be found at the International Airport and at the larger hotels. Robbery, kidnapping, and assault on passengers in taxis in Managua are increasing in frequency and violence, with passengers subjected to beating, sexual assault, stabbings, and even murder. Several U.S. citizens reported brutal attacks in taxis during 2008, particularly around the International Airport area.

Before taking a taxi, make sure that it has a red license plate and that the number is legible. Select taxis carefully and note the driver's name and license number. Instruct the driver not to pick up other passengers, agree on the fare before departing, and have small bills available for payment, as taxi drivers often do not make change. Also, check that the taxi is properly labeled with the cooperativa (company) name and logo. Purse and jewelry snatchings sometimes occur at stoplights. While riding in a vehicle, windows should be closed, car doors locked, and valuables placed out of sight.

Do not resist a robbery attempt. Many criminals have weapons, and most injuries and deaths have resulted when victims have resisted. Do not hitchhike or go home with strangers, particularly from nightspots. Travel in groups of two or more persons whenever possible. Use the same common sense while traveling in Nicaragua that you would in any high-crime area of a major U.S. city. Do not wear excessive jewelry in downtown or rural areas. Do not carry large sums of money, ATM, or credit cards that are not needed, or other valuables.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, January 26, 2009, at 16:27:38 (ZULU)

Somethin' cool.... click. I've of late, been dreaming of something similar in .454-.500 class cartridges.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, January 26, 2009, at 18:47:50 (ZULU)

Rod,

Thanks for the info. I'd rather they stayed and and got pissed at me and the boy's father, than go and find out the folks at their church are morons.

Neither of them has any real survival skills, nor any willingness to learn. They both seem to think they can wander through life unharmed, just because they refuse to believe it's possible.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Monday, January 26, 2009, at 18:51:31 (ZULU)

Rod: sounds like a dream vacation. Where can I get a good travel agent? What makes those places so dangerous is only the criminals and police have guns. Won't it be nice when it's like that here?

I can hardly wait.

Brogers
Monday, January 26, 2009, at 21:41:12 (ZULU)

Bill: You may not have to wait long.

CDC'
Monday, January 26, 2009, at 21:50:14 (ZULU)

Today's definition:

Police State - where only the police and military may lawfully possess firearms.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, January 26, 2009, at 23:14:01 (ZULU)

Travis:

I thought the landmines off the roads were a nice touch.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Monday, January 26, 2009, at 23:20:21 (ZULU)

Here is the reply from WI Senator Kohl regarding Eric Holder.

********

Dear Mr. Udelhofen:

Thank you for taking the time to contact me. I appreciate

hearing from you, and I would like to take this opportunity to

address your concerns.

President Obama nominated Eric Holder, former Deputy

Attorney General of the United States, to be the next Attorney

General on December 1, 2008. The Constitution requires the

Senate to advise and consent on Presidential nominations of certain

senior government officials. Though deference should be given to

the President's nominees for his Cabinet, the Senate has a

responsibility to ensure that any nominee possesses the

qualifications, integrity and independence that is necessary to carry

out his responsibilities on behalf of the American people.

On January 15, 2009 the Senate Judiciary Committee, of

which I am a member, held a hearing to examine Eric Holder's

nomination. During this hearing, my colleagues and I asked Mr.

Holder tough, but fair, questions about what his priorities as

attorney general will be, as well as his record as a prosecutor,

judge and Deputy Attorney General during the Clinton

Administration. I asked him questions about his ability to work

independently from the White House, his commitment to closing

Guantanamo Bay, and his ideas about improving local law

enforcement.

I will carefully consider the answers the nominee gave at

the hearing, his responses to written questions, and all of the

relevant facts before I vote on this nomination. Please be assured

that I will keep your views in mind.

Again, thank you for contacting me.

Sincerely,

Herb Kohl

U.S. Senator

*********

Well that's about what I expected but it's better then the auto reply from Fiengold.

JLU

Joe Udelhofen
Oconomowoc, WI, USA - Monday, January 26, 2009, at 23:53:08 (ZULU)

Apparently our Nation doesnt rate for the first formal public address.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/01/president-ob-10.html

UnPat

UnPat
Detained, Peoples Republic of America - Tuesday, January 27, 2009, at 06:45:34 (ZULU)

I was browsing through some old stuff in my 'puter and came across this from last year.

It is a British take on the (then) coming financial crisis, with typical British dry humor.

The site is in Spanish, but the video is in English, just click on the play arrow and sit back and laugh...

.... or cry!

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2008/10/01/um/m-01772238.htm

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, January 27, 2009, at 13:22:42 (ZULU)

Lito,

That looks like a Monte Python skit. "John Cleese explains Wall-Street"

Duman
Tuesday, January 27, 2009, at 14:07:19 (ZULU)

UnPat...

>"Apparently our Nation doesnt rate for the first formal public address."<

That's because he has to honor the people that really financed his campaign. Screw the locals, he doesn't need the US folks anymore.

Duman...

Yup, I think that is where it comes from.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, January 27, 2009, at 14:32:23 (ZULU)

WARNING: LONG POST

Just received this in the email:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Gun Law Update

Jan. 5, 2009 - Gun Ban Lists Revealed

The new Brady gun ban lists are already leaked

by Alan Korwin, Author

Gun Laws of America

Jan. 5, 2009

1. Officials stocking up on AR-15-style long guns

2. Preliminary gun ban list revealed

1. S&W sales

With bans on AR-15 and AR-15-styled rifles to the public expected under the Obama administration (see gun-ban lists below), Smith and Wesson has just announced expansion of that market, with the sale of 275 of its M&P15 rifles to the Chicago police department. http://tinyurl.com/742qre

Chicago, president-elect Obama’s home town, has virtual bans on handguns and strict repressive limits on long guns, but police are excluded and criminals blithely ignore the provisions.

The M&P15 strongly resembles the AR-15, a high quality, semi automatic long gun used by the U.S. military and the public for decades. What the Chicago police expect to do with 275 of the guns, vilified as assault weapons by the lamestream media, was undisclosed. Assault, it has been noted, is a type of behavior, not a type of hardware. In other news, the Minnesota State Patrol has purchased 90 of the high-quality M&P15 firearms, which retail for more than $1,000 each. In still other news, actor David Spade donated $100,000 to the Phoenix police department, to buy 50 new AR-15 rifles made by Colt, an S&W competitor. Spade was apparently moved by a “news” broadcast that said Phoenix officers had to buy their own rifles due to lack of funding, and he wanted to help them out.

2. Gun-ban list proposed

Slipping below the radar (or under the short-term memory cap), the Democrats have already leaked a gun-ban list, even under the Bush administration when they knew full well it had no chance of passage (HR 1022, 110th Congress). It serves as a framework for the new list the Bradys plan to introduce shortly. I have an outline of the Brady’s current plans and targets of opportunity, I’m working on getting that news out asap after these ban lists, probably be ready in the next few days. It’s horrific. They’re going after the courts, regulatory agencies, firearms dealers and statutes in an all out effort to restrict we the people. They’ve made little mention of criminals.

Now more than ever, attention to the entire Bill of Rights is critical. Gun bans will impact our freedoms under search and seizure, due process, confiscated property, states rights, free speech, right to assemble and more, in addition to the Second Amendment. See what 250 of your peers thought during our recent Bill of Rights Day event at the Wrigley Mansion in Phoenix: http://www.gunlaws.com/BOR-Day-2008-Report.htm

The Democrats current gun-ban-list proposal (final list will be worse): Rifles (or copies or duplicates): M1 Carbine, Sturm Ruger Mini-14, AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, AR-10, Thompson 1927, Thompson M1; AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR; Olympic Arms PCR; AR70, Calico Liberty, Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU, Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC, Hi-Point Carbine, HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, HK-PSG-1, Thompson 1927 Commando, Kel-Tec Sub Rifle; Saiga, SAR-8, SAR-4800, SKS with detachable magazine, SLG 95, SLR 95 or 96, Steyr AU, Tavor, Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).

Pistols (or copies or duplicates): Calico M-110, MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3, Olympic Arms OA, TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10, Uzi.

Shotguns (or copies or duplicates): Armscor 30 BG, SPAS 12 or LAW 12, Striker 12, Streetsweeper.

Catch-all category (for anything missed or new designs): A semiautomatic rifle that accepts a detachable magazine and has (i) a folding or telescoping stock, (ii) a threaded barrel, (iii) a pistol grip (which includes ANYTHING that can serve as a grip, see below), (iv) a forward grip; or a barrel shroud. Any semiautomatic rifle with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds (except tubular magazine .22 rimfire rifles). A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has (i) a second pistol grip, (ii) a threaded barrel, (iii) a barrel shroud or (iv) can accept a detachable magazine outside of the pistol grip, and (v) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds. A semiautomatic shotgun with (i) a folding or telescoping stock, (ii) a pistol grip (see definition below), (iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine or a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds, and (iv) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder. Frames or receivers for the above are included, along with conversion kits.

Attorney General gets carte blanche to ban guns at will: Under the proposal, the U.S. Attorney General can add any “semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General.” Note that Obama’s pick for this office (Eric Holder, confirmation hearing set for Jan. 15) wrote a brief in the Heller case supporting the position that you have no right to have a working firearm in your own home.

In making this determination, the bill says, “there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.”

In plain English this means that ANY firearm ever obtained by federal officers or the military is not suitable for the public. That presumption can be challenged only by suing the federal government over each firearm it decides to ban, in a court it runs with a judge it pays. This virtually dismisses the principles of the Second Amendment. The last part is particularly clever, stating that a firearm doesn’t have a sporting purpose just because it can be used for sporting purpose -- is that devious or what? And of course, “sporting purpose” is a rights infringement with no constitutional or historical support whatsoever, invented by domestic enemies of the right to keep and bear arms to further their cause of disarming the innocent.

If these near-total bans aren’t enough, the most dangerous part may be the phrase “pistol grip” because: “The term ‘pistol grip’ means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.” In other words, any semi-auto long gun with a grip (that’s ALL semi-auto long guns) would be banned under the existing proposal. It’s not clear what they hope to achieve by deceptively banning guns with grips instead of just calling to ban the guns -- even an idjit can tell it’s the same thing.

I didn’t cover here all the magazine bans, transfer bans, dealer record-keeping and centralized reporting, and a host of nuisance details -- there will be time enough for that when the new lists are released soon: “As soon as President-elect Obama is inaugurated and the 111th Congress is sworn in,” according to Ms. Brady. Congress is set to be sworn in on Jan. 6, Inauguration Day is Jan. 20.

No one expects the new proposal to be less abusive than the current one supported by the party of the Democrats. Remember -- these bans were proposed when the congressional anti-rights crowd had no chance of success. Now they are ready to run wild, or according to Sarah herself, “I have never been so confident.” The “news” media has failed to report on any of this, preferring instead to blare that the incoming president supports the Second Amendment and commonsense (sic) laws.

To see the whole bill, go to http://thomas.loc.gov and search for HR 1022, (switch to the 110th Congress if the 111th has begun). The excellent Firearms Coalition started by the late Neal Knox and now run by his family members makes these important points about the upcoming Judiciary hearings for AG nominee Holder:

“The Democrat members of the Judiciary Committee are all sworn enemies to the Second Amendment and are unlikely to be swayed at all by any firearms related arguments, but might hesitate to confirm based on Holder’s participation in the pardons of 16 Puerto Rican terrorists and billionaire financier and arms merchant Marc Rich [and perhaps the Elian Gonzalez abduction by federal agents Holder authorized]. Any letters to Democrats should focus on those issues.

“On the Republican side, Arlen Specter, the ranking Republican on the committee has never been a friend to gun rights, but he owes his reelection to NRA support and has expressed concern over the pardon issues. Among the other Republicans, most are relatively reliable votes, but only Coburn has routinely taken a leadership role on Second Amendment matters. All of them need to be pressed hard to do everything they can to block the appointment.

“For more information about Eric Holder and why his appointment must be fought tooth and nail, go to our web site at http://www.FirearmsCoalition.org.”

Respectfully submitted,

Alan Korwin, Author

Gun Laws of America

http://www.gunlaws.com/gloa.htm

Permission to circulate or post this Gun Law Update granted.

http://www.gunlaws.com

Take a look at our books --

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Alan Korwin

Bloomfield Press

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Contact:

Alan Korwin

BLOOMFIELD PRESS

"We publish the gun laws."

4848 E. Cactus #505-440

Scottsdale, AZ 85254

602-996-4020 Phone

602-494-0679 FAX

1-800-707-4020 Orders

http://www.gunlaws.com

alan@gunlaws.com

Call, write, fax or click for a free full-color catalog

Encourage politicians to pass more laws...

with expiration dates.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Duman
Tuesday, January 27, 2009, at 15:59:44 (ZULU)

Pablo: From the vid, "“when the markets plunged in London, a well known firm issued a statement “market participants don’t know whether to buy on the rumor or sell on the news, do the opposite, do both or do neither depending on which direction the wind is blowing”"

It just doesn't get any better than that.

CDC'
Tuesday, January 27, 2009, at 17:25:25 (ZULU)

Well that's all bad and worse but here's some real bad news! They got Smilin Bob! No more livin large with a sack full of pride!It was all a fraud! If you got one of those 4 hour boners it was by accident! What do we old has beens have to look forward too? And you guys are worried about your weapons and it's really your guns that are in danger! Nothing left but Viagra and I think Sara Brady is trying to change the dose! Actually just the mention of her name can cure a 4 minute boner for me!

Brogers
Tuesday, January 27, 2009, at 17:42:43 (ZULU)

'yotie...

>" Actually just the mention of her name can cure a 4 minute boner for me! "<

You crack me up Dude!

They say the definition of "insane" is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different outcome.

When I moved to Connecticut in 1980, they arrested the mayor of Bridgeport for big time theft and fraud.

And they arrested the mayor after him and the mayor after him and the mayor after him... every mayor of Bridgeport has gone to jail, and the current one isn't lookin' to good.

They arrested the Mayor of Wallingford a few years back for having sex with TWO 14 year old girls (at the same time - way to go dude), and he is in "da joint" for a long time.

The last governor (Roland) went to the federal joint for bribe taking and fixing state contracts.

And today, they arrested the mayor of the capital, Hartford, for taking bribes and other skulduggery.

Is being a political office holder in Connecticut some kind of I.Q. test or what?

We make New Joisey and Chicago look like Sunday School Faerie Tales - dem bums ain't got nuttin on us!!

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Tuesday, January 27, 2009, at 19:59:39 (ZULU)

" Actually just the mention of her name can cure a 4 minute boner for me! "

As does mentioning the names of: Roseanne Barr,Rosie O'Donnell,Nancy Pelosie,and Janet Reno.....Best form of birth control there is.

'Lito,

Guess the City of Racine, Wi. ranks right with ya.They just popped the Mayor there on kiddie porn charges.I think he is gonna be the favorite prison yard bitch.

UnPat

UnPat
Tuesday, January 27, 2009, at 20:32:37 (ZULU)

Interesting 4 minute vid about those who warned us about Fannie May and Freddie Mac. The Bush administration is always blamed by the mainstream media for this financial meltdown. Here is the truth about some who warned against it, and others such as Barney Frank and Charles Schumer who told them they were all full of shit. I think most of us here are aware of this as well as Barney Frank's degenerate little cocksucking buddy who stood to profit from it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1

MarcS
East S.F. Bay area, CA, - Tuesday, January 27, 2009, at 23:19:55 (ZULU)

Hogden Powders

Just got a call re: an order I placed. Hogden is 6-mos. behind on 8-lb kegs of H-335 or Varget, they didn't indicate which one (I forgot to ask). I'm assuming H-335, since they switched to only mfg. 1-lb. units for the next several months. Could be both, or even encompass more powders.

Duman
Wednesday, January 28, 2009, at 14:33:24 (ZULU)

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=cL9Wu2kWwSY

Wow !

Regards,

Joisey Steve

Steven Dzupin
Usa - Wednesday, January 28, 2009, at 17:32:33 (ZULU)

Joisey...

>"http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=cL9Wu2kWwSY

Wow !"<

Wow is right.

We are not going to be Numero uno very much longer, and Obama hasn't got a clue as to what to do.

'lito

CatShooter
Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is? - Wednesday, January 28, 2009, at 23:07:37 (ZULU)

Joisey's vid shows the way to exploiting opportunities ahead. Teach your kids to take in information, process information and communicate information. All three are of equal importance in keeping your kids' heads above the flow in fluid times.

As the school marm told your great-grandpa; "Readin', writin' and 'rithmetic".

CDC'
Thursday, January 29, 2009, at 00:20:30 (ZULU)

If you are not creative, adaptive and enternally full of 'can do', you are TOAST. Education (the degree/not the knowledge), social status, gender, race....meaningless in the very near future. What can you do well that others cannot...that's the whole game. Hide behind a degree or a current title and you are done for.

medicjim
Thursday, January 29, 2009, at 01:51:59 (ZULU)

Education is meaningless? By itself, maybe. It is definitely a tool in the kit.

CDC'
Thursday, January 29, 2009, at 13:45:05 (ZULU)

To clarify...

A degree is meaningless, it is the knowledge you retain that matters.

medicjim
Thursday, January 29, 2009, at 14:00:36 (ZULU)

"A degree is meaningless, it is the knowledge you retain that matters."

I understand what you're saying, but I have to humbly disagree. As we become more complex, as a society, certifications, degrees, etc., are the only things that give others confidence that you actually have some qualifications to perform certain activities.

An idiot with an engineering degree will have more opportunities than a really smart hobbyist with no diploma. I've seen extremely bright IT guys get bounced, and replaced with boneheads with paper. It's the paper trail that gives employers, etc., the indemnification if something goes sideways. "I did my job, I hired a guy with an XYZ degree."

Then there are "mini-diplomas", such as "Project Management Institute" or "Six-Sigma Black Belt". They're useless for the most part, but they are given legitimacy by pseudo organizational bodies, and have become part of the "requirements for hiring" by many employers.

Then there is the pecking order of schools. For some reason, Harvard holds the high ground in business, but I've never been impressed with anything coming out of Harvard. Don't get me wrong, there are bright folks highly qualified coming from these places, but overall many of these 'elite' schools are over rated.

Duman
Thursday, January 29, 2009, at 16:47:21 (ZULU)

Duman, I was talking about the near (imminent) future. I'm well aware of the hollow value of certifications....I've got a box full. Wanna buy a slightly used, well documented DMAIC analysis <g>....a net 5% gain in productivity at an unmeasured cost of 10% associated with the 6-sigma team.

medicjim
Thursday, January 29, 2009, at 17:51:21 (ZULU)

Most degrees mean nothing. The person holding them may just be retarded, but that person can have a shitty attitude and STILL make a hell of a lot more money than a smarter but less educated/certified person.

I've noticed that a lot of the certifications that'll get you hired are pretty hollow; show up, write a check, take an open book test with the answers on the board, and bam! You're certified. Only marginally harder than renting a video.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, January 29, 2009, at 18:48:59 (ZULU)

All of you cops- click and laugh.

Travis Morgan
Wichita, Ks., U.S.A. - Thursday, January 29, 2009, at 18:58:04 (ZULU)

I'm afraid that Duman is right. We have become a society dependent on credentials.

Know why? Because it's illegal to give a job applicant an IQ test, which would largely obviate the need for credentials.

Fortunately, although I have a boatload of credentials, I'm turning down work, so I don't care. People who have to find a job in this environment need to learn to play the game. And they have my profound sympathy.

Lindy
Rockport, Texas, U.S.A. - Thursday, January 29, 2009, at 22:07:00 (ZULU)

Seems that those with degrees place the most importance in them and those who have managed to succeed resonably well without them tend to think less of formal education. Looking back on my experiences with the subject it is obvious that I spent too much time thinking about it. There is an old American idea that "anyone can have an education that wants one!" I might take some issue with that but often those who had the access didn't take advantage and would like to make an issue out of making the point that it doesn't matter. Unfortunatly in the past few years we've all noticed that those who taken the time and spent the effort and money are no longer awarded the path to success like they once were. Possibly the increase in those #'s available for employment has affected it to the point that a reasonable demand for competent or at least a certain level of intellegence is beginning to affect the overall evaluation. For quite a while the degreed individual had the advantage in most personel selection because personel management didn't want to reject a degreed applicant in favor of one who had demonstrated competence

and claimed experience because of possible complaints back to them if the applicant with the most education was rejected and then possibly the other turned out to be a bad choice. I think the bottom line is that stupid people can get an education but they are still stupid. That does not mean that smart people can't be educated and become smarter.

Brogers
Friday, January 30, 2009, at 15:20:42 (ZULU)

>That does not mean that smart people can't be educated and become smarter.

Education does not make one smarter. It makes one less ignorant, or, from the other perspective, imparts knowledge.

Being educated is one thing. An education is available to most. The Massachusetts Institute of Technology has most of their courses available online free to anyone with a computer and an Internet connection - but without being able to get academic credit for them.

Being able to convince a prospective employer of that education is a separate issue, and the purpose of credentials.

Some occupations require a specific body of knowledge. Airline pilots, and the fields of medicine and engineering are examples. Others require an ability to learn an occupation for which there is little or no specific academic preparation.

For the latter, a university degree in any field is a demonstration that the applicant has a minimum amount of intelligence, has some facility with learning new material, and has the persistance to stick through difficult tasks.

As such, it's not a bad thing - until the lack of it is used to screen out people who have those characteristics, even though they lack the academic credential, by people who have not the ability to distinguish those who do from those who don't.

So, there is where we are. Getting a job is a game of convincing the prospective employer that the applicant should be hired. Gifted applicants may not have to play the credential game - but the game is still there.

Lindy
Rockport, Texas, U.S.A. - Friday, January 30, 2009, at 15:41:39 (ZULU)

I guess it all boils down to what the uneducated think "smarter" means. :) In my case at least. I always like to use this analogy when confronted with this question with apology to those who have heard me use it before. "If one were to take a course in 1911 colt pistols and study the manufacture, engineering and physics construction and all aspects for a period of a few years but never fired one he would likely die in the first gunfight with someone who had a day or two of practice shooting it."

Brogers
Friday, January 30, 2009, at 16:57:36 (ZULU)

Lindy, I don't mean to be contentious but I am going to respectfully disagree with, "Education does not make one smarter". Rigorous study of difficult material sure seem like it makes it easier to learn difficult material.

CDC'
Saturday, January 31, 2009, at 01:46:39 (ZULU)

Most people use "smart" to refer to a person's intelligence. Intelligence, which includes personal abilities measured by, but not limited to, the abilities measured by an I.Q. test, is a charteristic which is _relatively_ unchanging througout a person's life.

Certainly the experience of education teaches one how to learn better, as does experience in any field help one know how to do it better.

But getting better at learning doesn't make you smarter - it just makes you better at learning.

If that were not the case, the I.Q. of a person measured in, say, the 10th grade, would be markedly higher after they finished college.

That's not the case.

An old saying is, "You can't cure stupid." That's a crude way to put it, but the idea is the same. You can't teach calculus to a pig, either, no matter how hard you try.

Lindy
Rockport, Texas, U.S.A. - Saturday, January 31, 2009, at 03:42:57 (ZULU)

Guys, another quick question. Who now makes that are FFP with Gen II Mildots?

Darren
East Bay, CA, USA - Saturday, January 31, 2009, at 04:37:43 (ZULU)

Darren: The only company I know of selling rifle scopes with Gen II reticles is Premier Reticles - their new scope is called the Heritage.

U.S. Optics has licensed the Gen II for use in a spotting scope, but, so far as I know, not in a rifle scope.

There are existing Leupolds and Schmidt & Benders with that reticle, but no more will be made absent future licensing of the reticle from those or other companies.

Lindy
Rockport, Texas, U.S.A. - Saturday, January 31, 2009, at 05:04:13 (ZULU)

Howdy Gents! I am finally back online. Old computer (actually a newer one) died, and I made it an ordeal by refusing to leave a fallen hard drive and profiles behind. I won...but hell it was a PITA. Got a hearing this week for frivolous arguments and a guardian ad litem visit. The CPS visit went well, considering the witch hunt was a bogus charge to begin with. Doesn't the love of your life make the best of enemies? With all that, at least I have a clearer picture of the pending battle.

Joe M
Saturday, January 31, 2009, at 17:19:38 (ZULU)

Joe M:

Welcome back. I had to rassle with my own home computer too.

Sounds like your (ex?) wife is running all the usual bogus gambits. (Which doesn't make them any less serious). We're rooting for you.

rod regier
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - Saturday, January 31, 2009, at 21:15:56 (ZULU)

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